The Lunar Legacy, with Buzz Aldrin

47 years ago, mankind landed on the moon. Neil deGrasse Tyson explores the legacy of that historic mission with the second man to walk on the Moon, Apollo 11 pilot Buzz Aldrin. With co-host Iliza Shlesinger, Mike Massimino, Chuck Nice, and Bill Nye. NOTE: StarTalk All-Access subscribers can listen to this entire episode commercial-free. Find out more at https://www.startalkradio.net/startalk-all-access/

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Welcome to StarTalk. Your place in the universe where science and pop culture collide. StarTalk begins right now.

• 0:21Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Welcome to the hall of the universe. Right here in New York City, I am Neil deGrasse Tyson, your personal astrophysicist, and tonight, we are featuring my interview with the one, the only, the American legend, the hero, Buzz Aldrin. Buzz Aldrin. Pilot of the Apollo 11 mission to the moon. So let's do this.

• 0:49Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I never do this alone, and I've got my professional comedian co-host, Eliza Schlesinger. Thank you for having me. Eliza, welcome. Thank you. Welcome. And I also have a person who's actually been into space. The one and only Mike Massimino. Mike, welcome back to StarTalk.

• 1:07Mike Massimino?

  Great, great to be here.

• 1:08Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And Mike Massimino, you're one of my favorite astronauts ever because you helped to fix the Hubble Space Telescope.

• 1:14Mike Massimino?

  I did.

• 1:15Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, that's not, and... Come on! And you were not only just one of the many missions that fixed it, you were the last mission to fix it.

• 1:24Mike Massimino?

  That's right.

• 1:25Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And that's the one that was at highest risk of failure.

• 1:27Mike Massimino?

  Right, we were, since we were the last ones, there was no one else to clean up our mess. We had to get it right.

• 1:31Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  After you fixed it, did you walk off like, "I fixed it good"?

• 1:34Mike Massimino?

  No, wait. It was, Eliza was more like, "I hope I fixed it good." And now, apparently, what Neil's saying, it does work.

• 1:41Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, it works, it works. There you go. Yes, it's our people, I got full reports, you did a good job.

• 1:46Mike Massimino?

  Thank you. Good to hear.

• 1:48Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And I just learned, your book just came out.

• 1:49Mike Massimino?

  Yes, very excited about it.

• 1:50Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yes, yes, and it's, it's called Spaceman or something?

• 1:51Mike Massimino?

  Spaceman.

• 1:52Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Wow, okay, all right. How'd you come up with that title?

• 1:55Mike Massimino?

  Um...

• 1:57Mike Massimino?

  We kinda had a lottery.

• 1:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:59Mike Massimino?

  And it was like spaceman, fireman, garbage man, junk man.

• 2:04Speaker 02

  Garbage man's a title for my book.

• 2:05Mike Massimino?

  Yeah, so any of those could have worked, I think.

• 2:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:08Mike Massimino?

  But spaceman seemed to be the coolest. What do you think?

• 2:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, that sounds cool.

• 2:11Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, yeah, that sounds clever.

• 2:12Mike Massimino?

  The right one.

• 2:13Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Clever, yeah. So, the operational definition of being in space is they say like 100 kilometers. So at 100 kilometers, which converts to 62 miles when you convert out of metric, that's about where there's not enough atmosphere above you to scatter sunlight. So that in broad daylight, you can see the night sky.

• 2:34Mike Massimino?

  Yes.

• 2:34Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So that's been the operation. Now, I hated that definition of space.

• 2:38Mike Massimino?

  Oh.

• 2:39Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Can I tell you why?

• 2:40Mike Massimino?

  Go ahead, yeah.

• 2:41Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I'm gonna tell you, whether you wanna, I'm gonna tell you anyway.

• 2:43Mike Massimino?

  Alright.

• 2:43Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, because...

• 2:44Mike Massimino?

  Maybe someone else wants to know.

• 2:45Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Because it means the definition of space is defined by how thick our atmosphere is. That ain't right. If our atmosphere were half as thick, then space would be at 31 miles up. And if it were fourths as thick, it would be at 15 and a half miles. If we didn't have an atmosphere, it would be just standing here on Earth and we all would have been in space.

• 3:01Mike Massimino?

  Yeah, but it's a round number. You know, 100 kilometers seems like it's hard to get to. So that's probably, if it was like, it was like a couple hundred feet, right? You'd be like, oh, this isn't that big of a deal. But you have to set it high enough so it's hard to get to. I think that's part of it. I'm making this up. I have no idea.

• 3:19Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay.

• 3:19Mike Massimino?

  I thought it was 50 miles.

• 3:20Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, yeah, no, it's not 50.

• 3:21Mike Massimino?

  And thank God, I'm saying, thank God I went over 62, or else I would have turned my...

• 3:24Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, yeah, Mike, it was never...

• 3:25Mike Massimino?

  I thought it was 50 miles.

• 3:25Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  It was never 50 miles.

• 3:26Mike Massimino?

  We high five each other at 50 miles. Little did we know.

• 3:29Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Is that right?

• 3:30Mike Massimino?

  It's hilarious, yes. Because you know when it happens, you high five each other and you go get excited and all that kinda stuff.

• 3:35Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Is that right?

• 3:35Mike Massimino?

  Yes, and so I hope no one from NASA sees this, but they gotta update everything.

• 3:38Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And you're high fiving at 50 miles?

• 3:39Mike Massimino?

  Pretty much, yes.

• 3:40Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And you're not paying attention to the controls?

• 3:41Mike Massimino?

  There's really, at that point, you're on top of a rocket and you know, it doesn't matter. It's like they train, all this training you get, you realize it doesn't matter once a thing lights. You're on your way and you might as well have fun.

• 3:51Speaker 02

  Bring out the freeze dried champagne.

• 3:53Mike Massimino?

  Exactly.

• 3:55Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So 100 kilometers up, so that's, so that might be the future of, of tourism going to that altitude.

• 4:02Mike Massimino?

  Correct.

• 4:03Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  But you went higher because you went to the Hubble Space Telescope.

• 4:05Mike Massimino?

  Right.

• 4:06Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Last I checked, that was like 350 miles up.

• 4:07Mike Massimino?

  That's right, it's the highest, it's 100 miles higher than a space station.

• 4:10Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Not many people know that.

• 4:12Mike Massimino?

  Yeah, it's the highest the shuttle could go to. So we were, yeah, we were the highest that anybody's been since the guys went to the moon.

• 4:18Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And we put the telescope, we, I mean, it, the telescope was put to that high altitude because we didn't want to ever have to boost it out of the resistance to the very thin layers of atmosphere at those altitudes.

• 4:31Mike Massimino?

  There is some atmospheric drag even up there, so the higher you get, the lesser that you have.

• 4:35Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  The less drag, and so that kept the telescope out of atmospheric drag.

• 4:37Mike Massimino?

  Yeah, we did give it a little boost each mission.

• 4:39Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah.

• 4:40Mike Massimino?

  But it's still, it's gonna, eventually it's gonna come down. We put a docking port on our last mission, it's another thing we did, so you don't have to worry about it knocking on your door when it comes in.

• 4:47Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Wait, wait, wait, you put a docking port so that the next space shuttle could undock it?

• 4:52Mike Massimino?

  We put a, uh, docking.

• 4:53Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  What? I know, that's what I'm saying, that's what I'm saying. We don't have, that assumes we have space jobs.

• 4:57Mike Massimino?

  It was a docking ring, no, it's, it's, it's kind of a, a generic one, a generic docking ring, so that a rocket motor can be attached to it and guide it back like 30 years from now.

• 5:08Speaker 02

  It's a generic docking ring.

• 5:09Mike Massimino?

  Generic.

• 5:10Speaker 02

  The maltmeal of docking rings.

• 5:11Mike Massimino?

  Believe it or not, it is a generic, yes.

• 5:12Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Whatever that means, yeah, yeah.

• 5:13Mike Massimino?

  So it means, so like, but that's, that's.

• 5:14Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I get one at Home Depot, a docking ring?

• 5:16Speaker 02

  It's like Nike with two E's.

• 5:17Mike Massimino?

  It is, actually it is, it's just a round piece of metal.

• 5:19Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay.

• 5:20Mike Massimino?

  And it's simple, because all you're doing is you're latching into it. See, if, if you wanted to actually grab it with a certain device, or dock with it, like in the space station, we have a tunnel adapter, so you can go inside of it, we didn't need any of that, you just, a run-of-the-mill, generic docking port, piece of metal, round piece of metal, that you can grab with, with latches, very simple, literally very, very simple.

• 5:40Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, so, uh, that's encouraging, because.

• 5:42Mike Massimino?

  Yes.

• 5:43Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You wouldn't have fallen on anybody.

• 5:44Mike Massimino?

  No.

• 5:45Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Would've plunked it down in the Pacific.

• 5:46Mike Massimino?

  That's right.

• 5:47Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  The great toilet bowl of space probe.

• 5:48Mike Massimino?

  That's right, with all the other stuff that's there.

• 5:50Speaker 02

  Why the fish is so good.

• 5:53Speaker 02

  I have a question.

• 5:54Mike Massimino?

  Yeah.

• 5:54Speaker 02

  Is, when you go up there to fix it.

• 5:55Mike Massimino?

  Yep.

• 5:56Speaker 02

  Cause we've all seen The Martian, which is based on a true story. Whenever, and Gravity and all these.

• 6:00Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Martian, the movie, yeah.

• 6:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:01Mike Massimino?

  Yeah.

• 6:01Speaker 02

  Uh, whenever they go up there, they're always so calm when they're fixing things. Is it that calm? Cause the whole time I'd be like, "I'm in space!" Like, I would not be able to be, have my wits about me.

• 6:10Mike Massimino?

  Well, that, that's why I like these movies. Like, even the movie Gravity, you know, we could have debates on whether or not it's realistic. Again, same for The Martian, is it real? I just like that the astronaut looks cool. Right?

• 6:20Speaker 02

  And hot.

• 6:20Mike Massimino?

  Yeah, that, cause that kinda, you know, people assume that's the case. Don Knotts made a movie called The Reluctant Astronaut.

• 6:26Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I remember that movie. It's one of my favorite as a kid.

• 6:28Mike Massimino?

  But he's a nervous guy, he's a jumpy guy, like, it's setback astronaut.

• 6:31Speaker 02

  Really cool about Don Knotts, yeah.

• 6:32Mike Massimino?

  It set us, it set us back for centuries with that. There was no good to be earned.

• 6:35Speaker 02

  The sex icons that astronauts were prior to that.

• 6:38Mike Massimino?

  Right, exactly.

• 6:39Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  He undid, yeah, it was the opposite.

• 6:41Mike Massimino?

  Come on, cut us some.

• 6:41Speaker 02

  It's all Don Knotts.

• 6:42Mike Massimino?

  It's George Clooney and Matt Damon and he's, so.

• 6:45Speaker 02

  Are you calm up there?

• 6:46Mike Massimino?

  What was your question? Oh, were you calm?

• 6:48Speaker 02

  Were you calm? Cause they're so calm.

• 6:49Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Can I get back to like the Buzz Aldrin interview?

• 6:50Mike Massimino?

  Oh, yeah, go ahead, yeah.

• 6:51Speaker 02

  Oh, sorry.

• 6:52Mike Massimino?

  Uh, was I calm? Sometimes, yes, sometimes, no, but you, you're trained to be calm, actually.

• 6:56Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 6:56Mike Massimino?

  It's actually, I think it's a learned trait based on your experiences. You learn how to.

• 7:00Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  He's really very nervous now, but he's hiding.

• 7:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, for this, I'm watching you shake, but.

• 7:04Mike Massimino?

  Yeah, exactly. Well, this is nerve wracking. You know, it's nothing like this.

• 7:07Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So Buzz Aldrin came through town and I just had to nab him for an interview. He and I go way back, so it was, it was a friendly, like, old times. And so he, he came to my office and I wanted to know how did he become the guy to go to the moon? Not every astronaut goes to the moon. Not every person becomes an astronaut. So, let's check it out.

• 7:31Speaker 03

  I was in the same squadron with Ed White. Supersonic F-100s in Germany.

• 7:36Mike Massimino?

  Ed White, who was on Apollo 1.

• 7:38Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 7:38Mike Massimino?

  Lost him.

• 7:39Speaker 03

  And he left, uh, he got me in the squadron, then he left and, uh, went through the test pilot school. That qualified him to, uh, be testing airplanes.

• 7:51Speaker 03

  So a little later, he called me up and said, in sixty-two, now I'm at MIT, and he says, NASA's looking for another group of astronauts, and I'm qualified, and I think I'll apply.

• 8:07Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Another group after the Mercury Seven?

• 8:09Speaker 03

  That's right, the first ones after that thing. And I said, Ed, I can shoot gunnery better than you can, and besides that, I'm studying for my doctor's degree here, and I've decided to join up things in space.

• 8:30Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Docking?

• 8:31Speaker 03

  No.

• 8:32Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Not docking?

• 8:33Speaker 03

  You can't dock until you rendezvous. You gotta launch, you gotta make a couple of maneuvers, then you can rendezvous. It's like a fighter pilot shooting down the other guy.

• 8:51Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Two moving bodies that have to intersect, yes.

• 8:53Speaker 03

  This is bringing one on what you would like to be a perfect trajectory, because you've looked at it, and it's just the one.

• 9:02Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You studied that?

• 9:03Speaker 03

  I did it.

• 9:04Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Oh.

• 9:05Speaker 03

  I did it before and after shooting down a couple of MiGs in Korea.

• 9:11Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So Mike, how many MiGs did you shoot down before you became an astronaut?

• 9:15Mike Massimino?

  Uh, zero.

• 9:17Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So we got a little slice of the right stuff.

• 9:20Mike Massimino?

  Yeah, that's a little bit, that's a different, yeah.

• 9:22Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So he was in the Korean War, shot down MiGs.

• 9:25Mike Massimino?

  Yeah.

• 9:26Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And he was born in nineteen thirty, so that would have been the age in that era to do that.

• 9:30Mike Massimino?

  Right.

• 9:31Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And so here we are, drawing from this population.

• 9:33Mike Massimino?

  Right.

• 9:34Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  To represent us in space.

• 9:35Mike Massimino?

  And back then, they were all military test pilots. And when the shuttle era came in nineteen seventy-eight, they had a group of astronauts, there were still the military test pilots, but you had the first astronauts of color, the first women who were astronauts, and you had a lot of scientists and engineers. We still have military people, we still have test pilots, but we also have... You know, guys, men and women like me who are academics.

• 10:01Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Academic.

• 10:02Mike Massimino?

  And, uh...

• 10:02Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  He's got a PhD in engineering.

• 10:03Mike Massimino?

  Correct, a PhD in engineering, and we have medical doctors and scientists and people from all...

• 10:08Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So Buzz, you know, he was, he landed on, it was the first mission to, to land on the moon.

• 10:12Mike Massimino?

  Yeah.

• 10:12Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Second to walk on the moon.

• 10:14Mike Massimino?

  Yes.

• 10:14Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Uh, he had his PhD by then.

• 10:17Speaker 02

  And it seems he got a gold ring for each one of those accomplishments.

• 10:19Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Look, he's winged out.

• 10:20Speaker 02

  He's got a lot of rings than I am.

• 10:22Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  My boy is winged, okay?

• 10:23Mike Massimino?

  Yeah, he's big on the dro- and that was just a sample, I think.

• 10:25Speaker 02

  That was a lot, yeah. It was a trunk, a trunk show.

• 10:27Mike Massimino?

  He didn't see his feet. I mean, he's got a lot of stuff going on.

• 10:29Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, he was also the first to train underwater to simulate weightlessness.

• 10:33Mike Massimino?

  That was his idea, actually. He was a scuba diver, and before his, uh, his spacewalking adventure, his, his mission in Gemini, they had trouble spacewalking on, on the Gemini missions, and, uh, Gene Cernan ended up being the last person on the moon during his spacewalk on the Gemini missions. He fogged over his helmet and had trouble getting back inside, and they didn't really have a way to... It's, it's interesting to hear these guys talk about how to spacewalk, and they just were just winging it. And Buzz was the first guy to put some science and engineering behind it.

• 11:00Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And, and he set a record at the time. He, he spacewalked for five and a half hours.

• 11:03Mike Massimino?

  Yeah, he had all kinds, he had things like restraints and hand, and handrails, and how to use your tethers, and how to train for it.

• 11:08Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  He thought about it.

• 11:09Mike Massimino?

  He is a smart guy.

• 11:11Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  He's an academic.

• 11:11Mike Massimino?

  He really is a smart guy.

• 11:12Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  He said, "I don't know how this works, let me figure it out."

• 11:13Mike Massimino?

  Yeah, and he, he came up with that idea, Buzz did. Smart guy.

• 11:16Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So Buzz was the first to pee in space.

• 11:18Mike Massimino?

  I think he was the first to pee on the moon.

• 11:20Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Pee on the moon?

• 11:20Mike Massimino?

  Yeah, 'cause other guys peed in space, 'cause they had other missions.

• 11:23Speaker 02

  I think that's how other countries know that we were there.

• 11:25Mike Massimino?

  Yeah. I think he was the first...

• 11:27Speaker 02

  Buzz, USA!

• 11:28Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Right?

• 11:29Mike Massimino?

  Yeah. Yeah. I don't think they held it for the, you know, for...

• 11:32Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, you can't hold it for three days, right?

• 11:34Mike Massimino?

  No. Two weeks, you know, Jim Lovell was up there, I'm sure he peed.

• 11:38Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay.

• 11:38Mike Massimino?

  Not that I ever had, but I'm still, you know...

• 11:40Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  He's the first to pee on the moon.

• 11:41Mike Massimino?

  I know, yeah, I think it was on the moon.

• 11:42Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Uh, uh, on the moon, and you have a space first?

• 11:45Mike Massimino?

  I do!

• 11:46Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yes, what is that?

• 11:47Mike Massimino?

  I was the first to tweet from space.

• 11:49Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  To tweet from space?

• 11:49Mike Massimino?

  Yes, I was the first, yeah.

• 11:50Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Very cool.

• 11:51Mike Massimino?

  Tweet from space. What do you think of that?

• 11:53Speaker 02

  That's pretty great!

• 11:54Mike Massimino?

  Yeah. Not like walking on the moon.

• 11:56Speaker 02

  No.

• 11:56Mike Massimino?

  Maybe closer to peeing on the moon.

• 11:58Speaker 02

  What was the tweet? Like, how does this work?

• 12:00Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  No, don't, yeah, yeah, don't ask him, 'cause, 'cause we're, we'll be prone to compare it to "one small step for man, one giant leap into the ant."

• 12:08Mike Massimino?

  That's, that's exactly what happened on Saturday Night Live. I, I, they made fun of me based on that quote, and, alright, so what happened was I tweeted, "Uh, lunch was awesome."

• 12:19Mike Massimino?

  And I wanted the people of Earth to know I was okay, so I said, "I'm feeling fine." Right, and then I put, "The adventure of a lifetime has begun." So, and this is, yes, this is what I, alright, you know, I was in space.

• 12:33Speaker 02

  I was in space!

• 12:34Mike Massimino?

  You're not impressed?

• 12:35Speaker 02

  No.

• 12:36Mike Massimino?

  You would've done something better?

• 12:37Speaker 02

  I'm a woman.

• 12:38Mike Massimino?

  You would've done better, okay, alright.

• 12:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, I would've taken a picture, I would've uploaded a GIF, a GIF.

• 12:43Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  This was a little before the cameras.

• 12:44Mike Massimino?

  I didn't even know if we could do that back then.

• 12:46Speaker 02

  You were in space, of course you could've uploaded a picture.

• 12:49Mike Massimino?

  No, we didn't have a, we didn't have like, we would have, it would've been too complicated. Because we didn't have a camera phone, it was on the computer we were doing this.

• 12:55Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  This is how long ago it was.

• 12:58Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 12:58Mike Massimino?

  But the interesting thing about it is my, for me, the joyful thing about it, amongst other things, well, the most joyful thing is that you could share your experiences with people through social media.

• 13:06Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  In real time.

• 13:07Mike Massimino?

  It was fantastic.

• 13:08Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  The New York Times mentioned it.

• 13:09Mike Massimino?

  It was just great.

• 13:09Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Got a million Twitter followers.

• 13:11Mike Massimino?

  Yeah, the toughest thing, yeah, the toughest thing about being in space is that you want to, you want to explain to people how cool it is, right? And you just don't have those avenues to do this, so social media has been great for astronauts to share it. But in my case, my children, you can also get emailed there, my children were both in high school, and if you were a high school student, wouldn't you be glad that your dad was off the planet? Because my kids were, and, and so I wasn't getting an email.

• 13:33Speaker 02

  No, we're not having a party, but you can't see me. Oh, it's a Hubble telescope, yeah, you can't see us.

• 13:37Mike Massimino?

  They were thrilled, and I was getting an email.

• 13:39Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Plus, you're not coming home unannounced, right?

• 13:40Mike Massimino?

  Right, exactly, they knew where I was.

• 13:42Speaker 02

  Land a rocket in the backyard?

• 13:44Mike Massimino?

  They were just, "He's gone, we're happy," and they wouldn't send me an email. But they made fun of me on Saturday Night Live, what they said was, is that, you know, Mike Massimini, I mispronounced my name, but who cares?

• 13:53Speaker 02

  I understand.

• 13:54Mike Massimino?

  But he said, you know, "The first tweet from space, and launch was awesome." And they said, just like Neil, you picked up on, you know, in 40 years, it was the 40th anniversary of Apollo 11, they said, "In 40 years, we've gone from one small step for man, to one giant leap to mankind, to, launch is awesome." If we ever find life on other planets, this is how this guy's gonna tell us, I have my little Twitter picture, and it goes, "Jeez dudes, look, aliens." So they made fun of me, but my kids saw that and they heard about it, and they went back to school on Monday, and everyone said, "How cool, they made fun of you." And then I finally got some email from my kids.

• 14:28Speaker 02

  Because they made fun of you.

• 14:29Mike Massimino?

  Because they made fun of me on Saturday night.

• 14:31Speaker 02

  Not because you were in space.

• 14:32Mike Massimino?

  They didn't care at all about the space stuff.

• 14:35Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So you teach a course in aeronautics at Columbia University, is that right?

• 14:39Mike Massimino?

  Yeah, it's in space systems, yeah.

• 14:42Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Space systems, so what's important for astronauts today? If anyone in the audience wants to become an astronaut?

• 14:47Mike Massimino?

  I think...

• 14:47Speaker 02

  Too late for all of you.

• 14:50Mike Massimino?

  No, not necessarily.

• 14:51Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, she just ditched the audience, saying they're all too old.

• 14:53Speaker 02

  Sorry.

• 14:54Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  There used to be a 40-year age limit.

• 14:55Mike Massimino?

  No, no, they can't do that. It's a government, it's a government, there's no age discrimination.

• 15:00Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Really?

• 15:00Mike Massimino?

  There's no age discrimination.

• 15:01Speaker 02

  We're all gonna be astronauts.

• 15:02Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  But in the day, in the day...

• 15:05Mike Massimino?

  But you have to be able to pass the medical requirements, which get to be more difficult as you get older.

• 15:09Speaker 02

  We're not gonna be astronauts.

• 15:12Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Right, so you're teaching just what it is to be in space?

• 15:16Mike Massimino?

  Yeah, so you asked about what does it take to be an astronaut? I think that, you know, being able to have something that you really enjoy doing, love doing academically, and that could be flying, or medicine, or astrophysics, or in my case, engineering, something you kind of bring to the table is a good thing, but also being able to understand lots of things. And this is my second point is, yes, being a good person, like you would make a great astronaut, because I can tell, you know, you're good, you'd be great, and Neil would as well, because you're very personable, you care about people, you're a good team player.

• 15:49Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, that's what I'm wondering.

• 15:50Mike Massimino?

  And that's the thing that is hard to measure, and that's what you get more in the interviews.

• 15:53Speaker 02

  I can't do math.

• 15:55Mike Massimino?

  We can help you with that.

• 15:56Speaker 02

  I can't leave the tip properly.

• 15:59Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, getting back to my interview with Buzz Aldrin, he's the pilot of the first mission to the moon, Apollo 11, and as we've said before, he's recently written a book collecting his most profound moments in space. So I asked him about them, check it out.

• 16:20Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  What's your favorite story that you're telling here that you want the public to know?

• 16:25Speaker 03

  First guy to pee in his pants on the moon.

• 16:28Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I was gonna ask you about that because I have kids come up to me, "How do astronauts poop and pee?" So, because I looked inside the command module of the Apollo command module, there's no restroom that you get up and go to.

• 16:41Speaker 03

  You know, Alan Shepard's flight was gonna be a pretty short one. So he was supposed to go out there, get in this Mercury, uh, first time, first American, sub-ord. And the launch countdown didn't quite go the way it was expected. There was delay, delay, delay.

• 17:10Speaker 03

  And Alan's lying on his back, pretty soon it's getting pretty damp there. And that's when they figured, "We gotta do something. We gotta have a little bit better hydraulic engineering into the space suit and the rest of it."

• 17:30Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So what they call it, hydraulic engineering?

• 17:33Speaker 03

  The UCD, very important, Urine Collection Device.

• 17:39Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay.

• 17:40Speaker 03

  And the UCD...

• 17:42Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Somehow I thought those words would be bigger. It's just, it's a pee collection device, that's all it is.

• 17:48Speaker 03

  It gets dumped overboard and, and it freezes me.

• 17:53Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Instantly, yeah.

• 17:54Speaker 03

  And there are flakes.

• 17:56Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  But doesn't the pee...

• 17:57Speaker 03

  There are flakes outside.

• 17:58Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Wait, wait, wait, the pee is moving the same speed as your ship.

• 18:01Speaker 03

  Of course it would.

• 18:02Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Right, so if you put it outside, now the pee is, is frozen pee is traveling alongside with you to the moon.

• 18:09Speaker 03

  Scott Carpenter saw a lot of those, uh, fireflies.

• 18:16Speaker 03

  And he was so fascinated with him. That he wasn't quite lined up for retrofire. He, he, he got the cosine of it, which is, you know, enough. But there was a little bit of the sine of the angle that he saw.

• 18:36Speaker 03

  That's why he landed there.

• 18:38Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  In the wrong place.

• 18:38Speaker 03

  Not where he was supposed to go.

• 18:40Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  But the fireflies, are you telling me that was his pee?

• 18:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, it was a urine dump.

• 18:46Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  The mysterious fireflies.

• 18:50Speaker 03

  But there was a little hesitancy about people are getting their

• 18:57Speaker 03

  jewel too close to what was gonna

• 19:02Speaker 03

  go to a vacuum. Like they might get sucked outside.

• 19:16Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, we have to ask, Mike.

• 19:18Mike Massimino?

  Yes.

• 19:18Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Have you ever peed in your pants, in space?

• 19:21Mike Massimino?

  Yes. We didn't call it the UCD, we called it the MAG.

• 19:25Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  The MAG?

• 19:26Mike Massimino?

  The Maximum Absorbency Garment.

• 19:30Mike Massimino?

  It was a diaper.

• 19:31Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Diaper!

• 19:32Mike Massimino?

  Yes, we wore a diaper on launch and entry and while spacewalking. And then when you're inside the spacecraft, you use the toilet.

• 19:39Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, so where does the pee go if you do it in the spacecraft?

• 19:42Mike Massimino?

  In the spacecraft, it's collected and then dumped as, as he described. And you would wanna see, the urine dump was cool. Cause it would, you would dump it and it would crystallize and the sun would shine on it and, and it was really Beautiful. Fun. It was, it was something

• 19:56Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I can't believe I'm having a conversation about beautiful frozen pee in space.

• 20:00Mike Massimino?

  Hey everybody, it's a urine dump. I, I, this is, hey, it's a urine dump. And we, you know, before you hit the switch, I wouldn't go to the window and watch. So that's it.

• 20:08Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So you're telling me your pee was orbiting the Earth?

• 20:12Mike Massimino?

  Apparently, yes. I never thought of it that way, but yes, for a little bit until it crystallized, you know, it kinda disappeared.

• 20:17Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  No, then it would re-enter the atmosphere.

• 20:19Mike Massimino?

  Uh, well?

• 20:20Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yes, yes.

• 20:22Mike Massimino?

  Okay, yes, I peed on everybody.

• 20:25Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You peed on Earth!

• 20:26Mike Massimino?

  I guess so.

• 20:29Mike Massimino?

  Now, now the, you know, the secret's out, that's it.

• 20:34Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  More of my interview with American national earth hero Buzz Aldrin when StarTalk continues.

• 20:50Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Welcome back to StarTalk. We're here at the American Museum of Natural History in New York City. And tonight's show is all about the legacy of the Apollo program. And we are featuring my interview with the one, the only Apollo 11 pilot Buzz Aldrin. Let's check it out. You're sitting on top of the Saturn V, okay? Ready to go to the moon. Does your mortality matter to you at that point? That you're sitting on this 32-story controlled explosion?

• 21:24Speaker 03

  Eh, probably over pretty quick.

• 21:28Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That would be for sure. Or because many of you guys were fighter pilots and test pilots, the idea that you're putting your life at risk for some piece of machinery was not a new concern of yours?

• 21:42Speaker 03

  Everything that NASA did had a reliability to it and it ended up, 95% you guys are going to come back safely. We're pretty happy with that, really. But what was the chance before we lift off of being everything to go all right? And not have to abort or the, and safely landing? Nobody was going to come up with that number, but the three of us did. 60% is what we settled on.

• 22:15Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  This is you.

• 22:16Speaker 03

  And we landed.

• 22:17Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Neil Armstrong.

• 22:17Speaker 03

  Six out of seven.

• 22:19Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Michael Collins.

• 22:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 22:21Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So if, I don't mean to get morbid on you, but if you had died on the moon?

• 22:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 22:28Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Were we ready for that here in America? Here on Earth?

• 22:32Speaker 03

  Every president, they have a speechwriter, a staff. And the staff writer to the president would of course prepare in the event some.

• 22:48Speaker 03

  Disaster unfolded like Challenger accident. And it's not surprising me at all that one would do that. But it kinda, uh, it not shocks, but it brings people into the reality.

• 23:08Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So I have some of those words that were prepared in case Buzz Aldrin and Neil Armstrong would be stranded on the moon, still alive, but we would know they would ultimately die. These words were written for President Nixon and he never had to read them, but they exist and they are in his presidential archives. Fate has ordained that the men who went to the moon to explore in peace will stay on the moon to rest in peace.

• 23:36Speaker 02

  Oh my God.

• 23:37Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  These brave men, Neil Armstrong and Edwin Aldrin, know that there is no hope for their recovery, but they also know that there is hope for mankind in their sacrifice. These two men are laying down their lives in mankind's most noble goal, the search for truth and understanding. That's creepy, but beautiful.

• 24:04Mike Massimino?

  When those guys were coming back, they had another launch to go through to get off the moon. That's why they were talking about them staying on the moon. That rocket did not work on the moon, they were stuck.

• 24:13Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah.

• 24:14Mike Massimino?

  And I think if, if they were not successful, I think we would have continued. And we talk about that even with the, with the shuttle accidents. I remember after we had Challenger, I became an astronaut after that and before the second mission, we said, oh, if you have an accident, you know, it's going to end the program. And, and it didn't, you know, we had another accident and we kept going.

• 24:30Speaker 02

  It's American spirit.

• 24:32Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And, and in your particular case, you, you were on a dangerous shuttle mission. We didn't have a backup mission to save you.

• 24:39Mike Massimino?

  That's right.

• 24:40Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And you did this knowing you were at risk of death. And you did this for we, the astrophysicists, to fix our telescope. So I have to assume the answer to this next question is yes, but I need you on record to say so. Was it worth the risk?

• 24:55Mike Massimino?

  Yes, absolutely.

• 24:56Speaker 02

  Yes, it was.

• 24:58Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  We got it. We got it.

• 25:03Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, thank you because I don't know how many people even among my, in my astrophysics community who would have had enough of the right stuff to even have fixed our own damn telescope. So, thank you. Because you're not an astronaut.

• 25:15Mike Massimino?

  You're welcome. It gave me something to do. The telescope, I think, is a great example of how engineers and scientists kind of work together. I enjoyed fixing it. You guys looked through it. And it's a very nice relationship.

• 25:27Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, now you're up in orbit, low Earth orbit, 350 miles up, but Buzz is one of 12 people who have been to the moon. And, and I had to ask him about that unique perspective. The perspective of setting your foot on something other than Earth. Let's check it out. We always hear about astronauts, human beings, who have gone into space and they've come back in some other mental perspective. Are you in another state of mind? It's called the overview. The overview. You can have an overview effect just being in orbit. Yeah.

• 26:06Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And then, for the nine missions that left Earth orbit to go to the moon, you now see Earth receding in the distance. That's gotta affect you in some way. That's home getting smaller. You know, we'd be in trouble if it got bigger.

• 26:26Speaker 03

  That's gonna happen later on.

• 26:31Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Later on, you want that on the backside of this thing?

• 26:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, you gotta put the...

• 26:35Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, all right. So you expect it to get smaller. It's getting smaller. All is fine. Okay, I hadn't thought about it that way. Okay. So, he's not known for being sentimental. You know, he's just very matter of fact. And in fact, there's a famous photo of him saluting the flag on the moon. He's quoted in his book as saying...

• 26:58Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  When he saluted the flag on the moon, it's not given to emotionalism, but in that moment patriotism and love of country overwhelmed him.

• 27:06Mike Massimino?

  Wow.

• 27:07Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And this is at a time where, where at war with the, you know, at Cold War with the Russians and there's American flag is there. And so, so did you feel nationalistic like, I mean, you know, patriotic like that?

• 27:22Mike Massimino?

  Uh, yes, certainly I did. I was very proud to have an American flag on my left shoulder. And, uh, when I was spacewalking, it is, is a lot of national pride. We live in a great country and I think all astronauts go as representatives of, of lots of things, you know, the neighborhoods they came from, the schools they went to, and certainly the countries they're from.

• 27:39Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Was there ever a moment where you had to sort of override what would have been a natural emotion to take care of some other task?

• 27:45Mike Massimino?

  Yeah, you, you know, you kind of have to keep things in check. And a lot, you know, for me, a lot of it was the emotional part of it really didn't come out until I got back. And you start thinking about what you did and then the emotion's allowed to escape. So I got very emotional really the, the day after I got back is thinking about stuff. Can you kind of hold it in?

• 28:02Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So you're completely human. This is encouraging.

• 28:04Mike Massimino?

  Yeah.

• 28:05Speaker 02

  Probably takes you a while to process that.

• 28:06Mike Massimino?

  Yeah, it is. And I remember getting back and just, you know, and you start thinking about what you did and it, it really, you're allowed then to release at that point. And, uh, was it, that's the way it affected me. But yeah, you have to, you try to keep it in check. I think the, you know, the, the joyful emotion, that's a, you know, that's a good thing. But the other, the other side of it, not panicking, you know, when things are going wrong. That's really important because you're just going to make it worse. So.

• 28:31Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Cool. Well, up next, before we get back to my clips of him, let's go to our man in the street, Chuck Nice, to see what the public thinks about the moon voyages. Check it out.

• 28:42Chuck Nice?

  That's right, Neil. We're here on the streets of New York City to find out what people think about the legacy of the moon landing. Did we even really go? Let's find out. Do you believe we landed on the moon, or do you think it was a hoax? I believe we landed on the moon. Why? Ah, there's pictures.

• 29:00Speaker 05

  We landed. I mean, I wasn't there, but, uh...

• 29:02Chuck Nice?

  Right, but you know that we landed.

• 29:04Speaker 05

  I think so.

• 29:05Chuck Nice?

  Do you believe in Bigfoot?

• 29:06Speaker 05

  Uh, no.

• 29:07Chuck Nice?

  Thank God.

• 29:09Speaker 06

  I don't think that was a hoax. That definitely happened. I don't see how it couldn't have.

• 29:13Chuck Nice?

  What if the Earth is a hoax, but the moon is real? Now see that, I like the way you think. Moon people! Where are my moon people? So Buzz Aldrin estimated that there was a 60% chance that he would get to the moon and back safely. Would you take those odds?

• 29:30Speaker 06

  Hell no.

• 29:31Chuck Nice?

  Uh, God no. No!

• 29:34Speaker 05

  I want to say yes, but when you're asking me and thinking about my own personality, and I was a banker?

• 29:39Chuck Nice?

  Mm-hmm.

• 29:39Speaker 05

  No.

• 29:40Chuck Nice?

  Man has set foot upon the moon. Where should we go next?

• 29:44Speaker 05

  Everybody wants to go to Mars.

• 29:45Speaker 06

  Like Vulcan land?

• 29:48Speaker 05

  Vulcan, the planet Vulcan. Mars is a good destination. I have to say, though, if we had developed the sensing technology that we have now, like in my cellphone and all of the advanced ways to see and perceive and learn before we had developed all the rockets back in the early 60s, he might never have gone to the moon.

• 30:12Chuck Nice?

  Really?

• 30:13Speaker 05

  Because back in the day, if you wanted to learn what was happening in outer space...

• 30:18Chuck Nice?

  Couldn't send a robot.

• 30:19Speaker 05

  Couldn't, couldn't. You had to send a human being.

• 30:21Chuck Nice?

  Send a human being. Now we can send robots.

• 30:23Speaker 05

  Or tiny stuff.

• 30:24Chuck Nice?

  Or tiny stuff.

• 30:25Speaker 05

  Tiny stuff.

• 30:25Chuck Nice?

  So, right, so actually technological advancement may have precluded Buzz Aldrin from ever reaching the moon.

• 30:31Speaker 05

  You're the man, you understand.

• 30:33Chuck Nice?

  I'm right, science!

• 30:40Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, so, uh, so I'm happy to report that this set of random New Yorkers in Washington Square Park, none of them were in denial of the moon landing, as so many people are.

• 30:51Mike Massimino?

  Yeah.

• 30:52Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, so I'm happy about that. Happy to report, my fellow New Yorkers. We got it.

• 30:56Mike Massimino?

  Educated city.

• 31:00Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, the, um, I don't know how much people remember about that. Maybe, maybe some old timers do, but others, maybe you learned about it in a book. But, we were in Cold War with the Soviet Union. There it was, okay? And, in that Cold War, we're building up our weapons arsenal. And, one kind of weapon, which is particularly potent, is the intercontinental ballistic missile. So this is a missile you launch, and it leaves the atmosphere of the Earth. And it travels most of its distance, suborbital, then comes out of the atmosphere and lands. And you would load them with nuclear warheads, and it can go between any two points on Earth within forty-five minutes. You could not evacuate a city in time.

• 31:42Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Because suborbital gets you halfway around the Earth in forty-five minutes. And so, so here's what happens. Just in case you don't know. October 4th, 1957, Russia launches Sputnik. And you read normal accounts of it. "Oh, it's the first space satellite." "Okay, that's cool." "It starts the space race." Why did we freak out? Because that was in a hollowed-out shell of an intercontinental ballistic missile. If they could fly a satellite that went beep beep over our head, that was a, that was the writing on the wall. That was, they can send anything over our head. And we went ballistic. And we, haha. So, so, a year and a day later, I'm born.

• 32:26Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  But that's beside the point. A year later, that week, the week I was born, NASA is founded. And that births our, our participation in the space race. So, so then, we actually launched the race to the moon with JFK's speech. Because Russia beat us in almost everything else, and he thinks maybe we could beat them in getting to the moon. So we launched that. So that, that's the, that's the story in a nutshell. And, there you have it. But during that Apollo era, we were spending more than 4% of the federal budget on going into space. Now it's one-half of 1% of the federal budget. So the valuation is way lower. But we did manage to do other things. We had Skylab, and of course, the space station. Did you ever get to the space station?

• 33:06Mike Massimino?

  I've never been to the space station.

• 33:07Speaker 02

  Oh, you have to go.

• 33:08Mike Massimino?

  Really?

• 33:09Speaker 02

  Must go.

• 33:10Mike Massimino?

  Why? What's it like?

• 33:11Speaker 02

  Go in the spring.

• 33:12Mike Massimino?

  How's the food?

• 33:13Speaker 02

  It's amazing. Everything's fresh.

• 33:15Mike Massimino?

  Good service?

• 33:18Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, coming up after the break, more of my interview with moonwalker, national treasure, Buzz Aldrin, when StarTalk continues.

• 33:38Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  We're back on StarTalk, here at the Rose Center for Earth and Space. And we're talking about the historic mission to put a man on the moon. And back then, in the age of Apollo, great risks were taken for great rewards. And I wondered, today, is that same risk-reward ratio still in effect? And I asked Apollo 11 pilot Buzz Aldrin all about it. Let's check it out. We're in a culture now where everyone is afraid to make a mistake. Because something goes wrong and then, somebody has to hand out blame. And I worry that we live in a time, very different from when I grew up, when we're sending

• 34:20Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  you to the moon, where we're not going to discover anything. Because people are gun-shy. Yeah. Exploration shy. Risk.

• 34:29Speaker 03

  There's an engineer who's made, kind of, a specialty of really analyzing how much it costs us to be so sure that something won't fail. We spend so much money to do that.

• 34:48Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  We spend money to not fail.

• 34:50Speaker 03

  Lot? Oh, yeah.

• 34:52Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Not realizing the value of failure in the first place. So maybe NASA needs a skunk works. They need a...

• 35:00Speaker 03

  Well, we got one. We got one, down in Florida.

• 35:03Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  What?

• 35:04Speaker 03

  They already got alligators and stuff. But this is Kennedy Space Center. And they have a...

• 35:12Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So if your launch fails, you get eaten by an alligator.

• 35:16Speaker 03

  There's swamp works, okay? Down where the alligators are swamps. And they are getting into some...

• 35:27Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So this is real?

• 35:28Speaker 03

  Absolutely.

• 35:30Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You know, I didn't know about the Swamp Works. One of Buzz's favorite quotes is a variant on the one we all learned from the Apollo 13 movie.

• 35:40Mike Massimino?

  Failure is not an option.

• 35:41Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Failure is not an option. And Buzz has a different take on that. In his book, he says, "Nope, failure is always an option." But one of the lessons he describes in that book, because if failure is not an option, then you're at risk of being too safe. And in fact, Lockheed Martin and the Pentagon and others had gotten together. So they had what was called the Skunk Works, where they would design advanced aviation elements. And out of that came things like stealth and very high-speed craft, you know, high Mach number, multiple times the speed of sound. And in that group, they had very little oversight,

• 36:23Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  very little management telling them what bottom line to match. And only then did I just learn that NASA has that. I'm ashamed, I didn't know this. The Swamp Works, did you know about the Swamp Works?

• 36:33Mike Massimino?

  You know, I had a student a couple of years ago that had a summer internship there. So I learned about it through him.

• 36:38Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Uh huh. Do you remember what stuff they were doing?

• 36:40Mike Massimino?

  They were doing some really cool robotic stuff. Some like cutting-edge, cool robotic stuff that this student was...

• 36:44Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Without some manager coming over saying, "You gotta make the bottom line."

• 36:47Mike Massimino?

  I think that was the idea, do some exciting stuff.

• 36:50Speaker 02

  It's a think tank.

• 36:51Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, think tank. But they're doing more than just thinking.

• 36:53Speaker 02

  It's a build tank.

• 36:55Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  They're doing, yeah, thank you, it's a build...

• 36:56Speaker 02

  It's an explosion tank.

• 36:57Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  It's a do-tank.

• 36:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:58Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  It's a do-tank. And getting back to Buzz and the risk, here's something interesting. If you don't know what you're risking your life for, why risk it at all?

• 37:07Mike Massimino?

  It's a good point. Yeah, if you just not, you don't have a defined goal.

• 37:10Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  We'll just go in space, I don't know where, I don't know, and then you put your life at risk. What's that about?

• 37:15Mike Massimino?

  Yeah, it's not really a great idea, actually. And part of the reason, as astronauts, we're willing to take that risk, you talked about hubbles, because we knew that something great could come out of it, so...

• 37:26Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So you were able to calculate the return on that risk?

• 37:28Mike Massimino?

  Yeah.

• 37:29Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Because you know, and plus you knew we were watching. If you came back here and you had failed, I would have kicked...

• 37:32Mike Massimino?

  Well, that's the other thing. You wouldn't be so, yeah, you wouldn't have it on your shelf if I screwed up your telescope.

• 37:36Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Exactly.

• 37:37Mike Massimino?

  Yeah, so we had it.

• 37:38Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You busted the mirror.

• 37:38Mike Massimino?

  Failure wasn't an option in that case. So, Neil would have been pissed. So yeah, these astronomers would have been really angry, so we couldn't fail on that one.

• 37:47Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, right now, it's time for Cosmic Queries. And in this segment, we have solicited questions from our fanbase, all throughout social media. I've never seen them before. If I don't know the answer, I'll just say, "I don't know the answer, give me another one." But I got you to help me, Mike.

• 38:01Mike Massimino?

  Okay.

• 38:01Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, give it to us, let's see what you got.

• 38:04Speaker 02

  From Matt Eli in San Antonio, Texas. "Why do so many people refuse to believe in the moon landing?"

• 38:11Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Mike.

• 38:12Mike Massimino?

  I think because it's such an amazing feat, we can't imagine that we actually did it. And that's the only thing I can think of.

• 38:18Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  But we did it. I actually agree. I think, what a testament to how far our science and engineering has come, that people within our own culture are in denial of what those achievements actually are. That is an even greater testament to what the achievements have been. So I'm totally with you on that.

• 38:39Speaker 02

  Those are both incorrect. No points awarded.

• 38:42Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I forgot he's a game show host.

• 38:45Speaker 02

  Next question is for Casio Keyboard. Are you ready?

• 38:47Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Alright.

• 38:48Speaker 02

  From SirMatthew42. "Can you, once and for all, explain to the moon landing conspiracy theorists, why the radiation belt didn't kill the Apollo astronauts?"

• 39:00Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Ooh, so did you go through the radiation belt?

• 39:02Mike Massimino?

  We were...

• 39:03Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Wait, have you had kids since you?

• 39:06Mike Massimino?

  No. I wonder why? Well, the radiation belt, and Neil's probably can explain it better than I can, but the radiation belt also protects us from radiation. It's when you get outside of the Van Allen belts where you're more exposed. So, they were exposed once they got away from the Earth's protection of our magnetic field, but they luckily did not get zapped with anything too harmful.

• 39:28Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, yeah, so if I add some nuance to that. So, we have a magnetic field, and charged particles come from the sun, which would otherwise be dangerous to you, and they get directed to the poles, collide with our atmosphere, render it a glow into the aurora borealis, and the aurora australis, the northern lights. So credit the sun for that activity. Now, if you go into orbit, go to the moon and come back, if you're on the moon and there's a solar flare, a mega solar flare, that's bad for you. Right, so future missions to the moon, you want to time it for when the sun is not flare-active. And the sun goes through cycles, so you know when it's at a low period, you're safer. The astronauts that went up back then, they were exposed to radiation, but it was not

• 40:11Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  very much, and not all levels of all radiation are bad for you.

• 40:14Speaker 02

  Not all radiation is bad for you.

• 40:16Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yes.

• 40:16Speaker 02

  That is the correct answer.

• 40:17Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, what else you got? What do we win?

• 40:20Mike Massimino?

  Yeah, what do we get now?

• 40:21Speaker 02

  Keyboard.

• 40:22Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  The keyboard, Casio keyboard.

• 40:23Speaker 02

  Okay. From Nicole Brooks in Philadelphia. How would a Soviet man moon landing have affected the course of the Cold War?

• 40:31Mike Massimino?

  Ooh.

• 40:32Speaker 02

  Ooh, hypotheticals.

• 40:33Mike Massimino?

  They would have won, and it would have, I think would have given them an edge, and maybe the Soviet Union might even still be around today.

• 40:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, we might be calling it Philadelphia now, like with an accent.

• 40:46Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You know what I think? I think had they done that, we would have said, "No, the real race is who lands on Mars first."

• 40:52Mike Massimino?

  Oh.

• 40:53Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, we would have kept...

• 40:54Mike Massimino?

  Dang it!

• 40:55Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, yeah, see? See? That's what I think we would have done. All right, next one, go.

• 40:59Speaker 02

  Last one. From beautiful dust specs. If the funding and backing for space travel today was equal relative, she meant to say equally, relative to the funding of the Apollo program, what could be accomplished and what would you prioritize as the top objective? We're gonna throw it to you, Neil.

• 41:16Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, so now I wouldn't prioritize everything. I say, make the whole solar system a backyard, and if we had that same funding, NASA's budget would be 10 times what it is today. 10 times. And at 10 times, the whole solar system is your backyard. We'd have condos on asteroids. We, well, no, no, you wouldn't want to do that.

• 41:35Speaker 02

  Can't, they're hard to catch.

• 41:36Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You, no! I'm just saying, are you vacationing to the moon, Mars or beyond?

• 41:41Speaker 02

  You want to live in space so bad.

• 41:42Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Oh, that's how, so, that's so how it would be. If NASA's budget were 10 times what it is, and I wouldn't prioritize it. Let people prioritize where they want to go with whatever rockets they choose. It's not just one destination after another. Let it all. Let space be the destination.

• 41:58Mike Massimino?

  Nice. Nice. I would say we would, we would send people to Mars, and I think also we would give us more opportunity to fund some of these commercial companies and give them a little more seed money, because once we get them creative in ways to make money, I think it's gonna be some, some great accomplishment.

• 42:16Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  The sky's the limit.

• 42:17Mike Massimino?

  The sky's the limit once that happens.

• 42:18Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You got it. All right, when StarTalk continues, we're gonna feature our, our regular segment with Bill Nye the Science Guy, and we get his take on the legacy of the moon landings, when StarTalk continues.

• 42:37Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  We're back on StarTalk featuring my interview with Apollo 11 astronaut Buzz Aldrin. This guy walked on the moon and he's not done yet. He wants us to go to Mars and I had to ask him about it. Check it out.

• 42:54Speaker 03

  You know what ISRU?

• 42:56Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yes, loving it.

• 42:58Speaker 03

  You?

• 42:58Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  In situ resource utilization.

• 43:00Speaker 03

  Right. Now, I had to talk to the-

• 43:04Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Which is a fancy word for it. When you go there, you can't bring all your supplies, figure out how to live when you get there. Now, extract water from the soil-

• 43:13Speaker 03

  If I were to say, what is the best, what is the most important thing that we need for the future?

• 43:22Speaker 03

  Rocket fuel.

• 43:25Speaker 03

  To refuel rockets heading for Mars. If you can't do that, all of that has to be lifted up. Oh, is it so much more expensive in time and everything else?

• 43:40Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You want filling stations throughout the solar system.

• 43:42Speaker 03

  Well, we want one, certainly, with a fair amount of fuel-

• 43:48Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I love it because you've been trying to lead the charge. Even the shirt you're wearing, okay? Get your ass to Mars. That is a brilliant shirt. Brilliant. I want to bring the rest of my body as well as my ass. He wants to go to Mars so badly that anytime NASA talks about going to the moon, he, he, he fights against it. Even if that's like the next thing NASA wants to do, he don't care. He wants to go to Mars. All right, well, before we close out this show, as always, I gotta catch up with my buddy Bill Nye, the Science Guy. And I'm told he gave his thoughts on the Apollo program while at the UN. And I said, "What? I haven't seen, I haven't seen, I just heard."

• 44:32Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  This is a dispatch nine times in the city from the UN. I gotta check it out.

• 44:49Bill Nye?

  Ladies and gentlemen, in 1967, as the race to the moon was really picking up speed, countries from all over the world came together and signed the Outer Space Treaty. In it, humans from all over the world agreed that no country, no one, could lay claim to a celestial body like the moon and claim it for his, her, or itself. Furthermore, the treaty holds that no one or country can interfere with any life we might find out there. This is the Prime Directive. I'm sure you or your friends are familiar with it.

• 45:33Bill Nye?

  It's from Star Trek. Can't interfere. Brilliant. Now, it turns out that the Prime Directive is extracted entirely from the Charter of the United Nations. They both say, "Let's agree to prevent aggression, either military or biological." But the Prime Directive is the same idea writ on a cosmic scale. Back to you, Neil.

• 46:01Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Cool. Bill Nye, the Science Guy. How did he get to give a speech at the UN? How did he? I think he'd sneak in when no one else was around.

• 46:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:14Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  It was a backdoor. I think that's what's more...

• 46:16Speaker 02

  Let the security guard something.

• 46:18Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, they didn't show the...

• 46:21Speaker 02

  No one there. He went on a Sunday.

• 46:24Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, what are your parting reflections, Eliza?

• 46:28Speaker 02

  I think without dreamers, we would never get to outer space. So, I think the more we can encourage people to dream, no matter how silly or stupid or insane it sounds, nobody's called crazy when they actually succeed at something.

• 46:42Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Anyone who succeeds is never called crazy. I like that. So, Mike?

• 46:46Mike Massimino?

  Yeah.

• 46:47Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, give me something.

• 46:48Mike Massimino?

  I think it's great...

• 46:49Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  The old man who has been in space.

• 46:50Mike Massimino?

  Yeah, I think it's great that you had Buzz on, because he's really a national treasure. Twelve, only 12 people got to walk on the moon. Seven of them are still around, and it's great to have him featured like that. What they accomplished was great, but it was a blip, right? It happened. It was a long time ago. We went there and came back. And the next time we go, I think we should settle in a little more.

• 47:11Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Settling, you mean, create a moon colony?

• 47:13Mike Massimino?

  Yeah. Create a colony, settlement, place to hang out, research laboratory, whatever you want to call it. I think we should go and stay forever.

• 47:23Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, when I think about all this and reflect, I think to myself, there is an outer space treaty for the peaceful use of outer space. So the goal is, when we all go into space, we will treat one another kindly. And I don't have the confidence that others have in that. I want to believe it. But I say to myself, if you can treat each other kindly in space, then why not do that here on Earth? Why do you have to be in space to not kill one another? However, my one glimmer of hope is that so much of human conflict in the history of civilization has been derived from scarcity of resources and access to those resources. And I look at space, asteroids, comets,

• 48:08Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  stars with limitless energy, and I realize, we should all realize, that space is a limitless supply of natural resources. Space may be the only place where peace is guaranteed because, in fact, we would have run out of all reasons for why to kill one another. You've been watching StarTalk here at the American Museum of Natural History, and I've been your host, your personal astrophysicist, Neil deGrasse Tyson. And as always, I now bid all of you not only farewell, but I require, in life, that you keep looking up.