Would NFL players do it all again? Ryan Clark, Fred Taylor & Channing Crowder on CTE, Chris Johnson ALS, Jaylen Brown trade reactions, Travis Taylor wedding, what makes a good leader & 2026 halfway realizations

"Would I have allowed fear to steal my destiny?" Ryan Clark A Friday episode of The Pivot Podcast with the fellas. Ryan Clark, Fred Taylor, and Channing Crowder kick back for a classic Friday conversation, catching up on life, sports, and everything in between. The trio opens with heartfelt thoughts on Chris Johnson's ALS diagnosis, reflecting on the football brotherhood and the importance of supporting those who have given so much to the game. They also have an honest conversation about the fear of CTE—the reality that comes with playing football at the highest level. While they acknowledge the risks every player accepts, all three agree that, knowing everything they know today, they still wouldn't change a thing about the game that shaped their lives. The conversation shifts to the NBA as they debate the buzz surrounding a potential Jaylen Brown trade and what it says about today's business of sports. From there, the guys dive into a bigger question: What truly defines a great leader? Whether it's in the locker room, on the field, or in everyday life, they share the qualities they believe separate good leaders from great ones. With July marking the halfway point of the year, Ryan, Fred, and Channing each open up about the personal goals, habits, and areas they're focused on improving during the second half of 2026. Ryan also shares stories from attending Travis Kelce and Taylor Swift's wedding, giving the guys plenty to laugh about as they react in true Pivot fashion. It's thoughtful, hilarious, honest, and everything people enjoy about the locker room feel of the guys simply talking about life. No guests—just The Pivot doing what it does best. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Good times mean competitions between you and your friends. Like seeing who can throw some pigskin the farthest, or rush the field the fastest. Winner gets an ultra. Because it's not just a superior like beer, it's also giving fans superior access to their favorite sporting events. Superior is worth playing for. Visit michelobultra.com/superioraccess to enter. Enjoy responsibly. Copyright 2026 Anheuser Busch InBev Michelob Ultra Beer, St. Louis, Missouri.

• 0:30Ryan Clark?

  What's happening Pivot fam? Welcome back for another three man weave with your boy RC, Chan, and Freddie T. And we got a real one for you today. We'll talk about some of the things we believe need to change. That's in sports, that's in culture, and in the way we lead. One of us though, did attend the wedding of the year. Hell, maybe the century, and man, what a time. Freddie T's feeling good about where he is. Chan is running his kids like crazy. And I may or may not need a new vehicle. But, let's get real. We'll dive into Chris Johnson's inspiring battle with ALS, and the news that Marshawn Nealon was diagnosed with stage one CTE.

• 1:13Ryan Clark?

  We discuss whether this changes the way we look at football, and the sacrifices that players make every time they step on the field. We weigh in on Brandon Iuk's recent crash outs, on the Jaylen Brown trade from the Celtics, and what that says about accountability, expectations, and perspective. Which led us to this question. What does real leadership actually look like? Is it about words? Is it about actions? Is it about consistency? Heck, all of the above. Or do people even care and you just follow folks that you agree with? But you know how it gets on this side. We keep it fun, we keep it informative, but we always keep it real. So Pivot fam, thank you once again for pivoting with us.

• 2:18Channing Crowder?

  Y'all don't know what beauty is.

• 2:19Fred Taylor?

  Yeah, that porno, that porno stuff.

• 2:20Channing Crowder?

  I'm a good, strong 8.9.

• 2:24Ryan Clark?

  I respect it. Well, fellas, we're back for another three man weez on a Friday. It's been a while. I feel like I haven't seen y'all boys in a long time, man. So it is like boo hoo to talk about. Pivot fam, thank you for pivoting with us. This is Fred Taylor, this is Channing Crowder, and I am Ryan Clark. Man, what y'all boys been up to?

• 2:45Channing Crowder?

  What you been up to? Cause you got a lot, you know, you ain't online, I be worried about you. I thought you was got grabbed or something.

• 2:52Fred Taylor?

  When is he never not online?

• 2:54Channing Crowder?

  He wasn't online, he wasn't online this weekend.

• 2:57Ryan Clark?

  I will say this. I love the fact that you have an adult man's mustache and beard now.

• 3:03Channing Crowder?

  So, oh, you gonna do that? Cause this is professionally done.

• 3:06Ryan Clark?

  It is so much better than when you run to the airport bathroom to edge your face up. Cause you be looking terrible, dawg. You had our-

• 3:14Channing Crowder?

  I don't, I don't know about this evaluation because I don't like it. But, when they started calling me Abe Lincoln because I had it too low, now I gotta have the little shadow, as Fred said. Have the shadow. I am so fine, it's ridiculous.

• 3:29Fred Taylor?

  I never heard a guy call himself fine.

• 3:32Channing Crowder?

  Because you can't do it, that's why.

• 3:34Fred Taylor?

  You know what's crazy? I thought you was trying to get fine? I think you sent a text saying Chan getting at it in DC? So I went on Instagram.

• 3:41Ryan Clark?

  It was Lil' Chan.

• 3:42Fred Taylor?

  It was Lil' Chan. But they got the same name. I was like, hold on, Channing is finally working out.

• 3:49Channing Crowder?

  Nah.

• 3:49Fred Taylor?

  Then it was like Channing the third, Channing probably the third.

• 3:52Channing Crowder?

  I tell y'all all the time, you ain't gotta put rims on a Ferrari, it's already a Ferrari.

• 3:56Ryan Clark?

  Nah, my dog Lil' Chan was getting it. He in DC at the little, like a little camp or something.

• 4:00Channing Crowder?

  Internship, business council, yeah.

• 4:02Ryan Clark?

  I really, I really love that. I, um, yeah, I ain't been doing nothing.

• 4:08Channing Crowder?

  That's good, man, do nothing.

• 4:10Fred Taylor?

  You ain't been doing nothing?

• 4:11Ryan Clark?

  I've been chilling, dawg.

• 4:12Channing Crowder?

  You been doing them [BLEEP] workouts.

• 4:14Ryan Clark?

  I do workout a lot.

• 4:15Fred Taylor?

  Couple Dilly Dallys.

• 4:16Ryan Clark?

  Dilly Dallys. We should get shirts, we should get Dilly Dally shirts.

• 4:19Fred Taylor?

  I think so.

• 4:20Ryan Clark?

  I, um, I did get to go to the wedding though.

• 4:24Channing Crowder?

  You went to the, to the, to the, to the Swifty Travis wedding?

• 4:28Fred Taylor?

  Was it really a thousand people?

• 4:30Ryan Clark?

  I think that's what they said. It was, it was part of what she said, you know, she wanted to share it with those people. First, foremost. I think the coolest thing about it is I know that like I had no entitlement to be there. So to be one of the people that they considered close enough, important enough, however they decided to make their list, to be there was truly an honor. And it's not my story to tell. I don't get to say what went on, what it looked like, who was there. I will say this, I did get the opportunity to speak to Trav at the reception. And I just hugged him, man, and I said, you know,

• 5:12Ryan Clark?

  the one thing that was extremely evident the entire night throughout the vows was, those two humans really love each other. You know, those are two people who are insanely talented, insanely successful, extremely well off, and they had found their person. You know, it was like Trav had been looking for one thing his whole life, she had been looking for one thing her whole life. And they actually got that. And the happiness, man, between those two that they shared that night was truly, truly a blessing to witness and be a part of. And so I wish them nothing but the best.

• 5:53Fred Taylor?

  Yeah, when someone decides to take that leap and get married, for each person that's, you know, holding out on that faith, I think they, um, they consider their wedding the wedding of the year, no matter the scale.

• 6:05Ryan Clark?

  One of my closest friends when I played with the Giants texted me, he's also married on July 3rd. He just celebrated his 22nd wedding anniversary. And he goes, that had to only be the second best wedding you've ever been to on July 3rd. And I said, yeah, man, second, and it's not even close.

• 6:25Channing Crowder?

  I was gonna say, I love love. And now you see all the people talking this and that and all, and trying to bring up exes and all that stuff. Man, them people, I love how you said it. They found their person.

• 6:36Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 6:37Channing Crowder?

  And that's what marriage is. We've all been married, hell damn, 20 something, 20 something years. I'm sneaking up on 20, I'm behind y'all boys. But man, enjoy love, and that's what it's supposed to be. It's not easy, and I don't give a damn how much billions that she got. I hope he puts a baby in her soon, cause they gonna lock in. But-

• 6:59Channing Crowder?

  It's gonna be hard, there's gonna be disagreements, there's gonna be all of that as we all go through.

• 7:03Ryan Clark?

  Has to be love.

• 7:04Channing Crowder?

  But it has to be love that's gonna keep that marriage together.

• 7:07Ryan Clark?

  Nah, you're right. All right, fellas, I have a question. Okay, we're six months into the year, right? It's officially July, we've passed the halfway point. People make New Year's resolutions and have these goals. If there's one thing that maybe it was a New Year's resolution that you haven't done, or for the second half of the year that you might need to change or do, what would that thing be?

• 7:27Channing Crowder?

  I think I would be, be more lenient on my children.

• 7:31Ryan Clark?

  Good for you, man.

• 7:32Channing Crowder?

  I had them out in the thunderstorm, running hurdles and ladders the other day. And Asia text me.

• 7:39Ryan Clark?

  In the backyard?

• 7:40Channing Crowder?

  No, at, at the field.

• 7:42Ryan Clark?

  Okay.

• 7:43Channing Crowder?

  Asia text me and she was like, and I had my phone, cause I knew it was raining. I had my phone in the car, she texted me, she's like, I know them babies ain't out in this rain. And I had them out there, and I'm yelling to them, what's your last name? Crowder, what does that mean? Tough? Are you acting tough? Let's go. Like, I, I need to, I gotta, I gotta coach dad. I need to find a mid-ground between that. And we've talked about it in the past, of pushing them. I don't want them to get upset with me, you know what I'm saying? Have any resentment towards me. So I'm trying to find that mid-ground in the second half of the year to answer your question.

• 8:20Fred Taylor?

  As last year ended, you know, we started through some things out there. I said, I just wanted to lock in, started refocus on life. And I think I've done a pretty good job with that. I wanted to dial back into my discipline. Having been once been an elite athlete, I think we pride ourselves on being disciplined. I had to get back to that. And that came along with prioritizing my health, you know, prioritizing my family, you know, making sure I'm, I'm more present, and not just kind of lingering. So, I've done a really good job with that. So I just want to continue to stay locked in and, and, and finish the year out strong. So, if y'all see me popping my shirt off showing your abs in September then, so be it.

• 9:03Fred Taylor?

  I, I am locked in, I still haven't had a drink, so-

• 9:07Channing Crowder?

  We don't need to see your abs, just have your abs for yourself.

• 9:11Ryan Clark?

  Nah, he gonna, he gonna be on the story.

• 9:12Channing Crowder?

  I don't wanna see you naked.

• 9:14Fred Taylor?

  It's not naked, it's just motivation.

• 9:16Channing Crowder?

  To me to do what? To me to see you with your shirt on?

• 9:19Fred Taylor?

  Put down the old duels.

• 9:22Channing Crowder?

  You're drinking fake beer?

• 9:23Fred Taylor?

  I don't, I haven't had a drink, okay, 370 days now. I'm going, and I don't have a clout.

• 9:30Ryan Clark?

  He always want us, why you always want us to clap for him? You clap for yourself, I'm not clapping for you, bitch, I don't care.

• 9:35Fred Taylor?

  I can clap for myself. I don't need to, I've never needed a crowd. I've never needed a crowd. I just think I'm with my guys, sharing, you know, an accomplishment.

• 9:44Ryan Clark?

  You know, I am 100% happy for you, man.

• 9:47Fred Taylor?

  Yeah, so, you know, I don't even know where that's going, but, um, I feel good. I just want to continue to feel this way.

• 9:53Ryan Clark?

  I'm gonna be honest, man. I need to get a new truck, guys.

• 9:58Channing Crowder?

  Man, don't give up on the Tundra.

• 10:00Ryan Clark?

  That's what needs to change about me, Chan.

• 10:02Channing Crowder?

  You gonna quit on the Tundra?

• 10:03Ryan Clark?

  Say, dawg, so, you know, my kids and my family make fun of me. It's 11 years old now. I got in a wreck a while back and I thought it gave my car character to not get it fixed. So like my bumper in the front hangs off a little bit. I lost one of my keys, but I also don't have the fob to open the door. So like when I be going to the Planet, I went to the Planet Fitness one time and I was super setting. I had my little key on the ground. Somebody picked my little key up and brought it to the front. So I had to go to the front desk. I say, do you have a loose Toyota key? And they was like, yes, sir, we got your key. But this is what sealed it, fellas. I went to Five Guys the other day.

• 10:44Ryan Clark?

  I go in, I order my little lettuce, you know, lettuce wrap hamburger and stuff and a young black dude and his family, his wife, his kids, they hop out a brand new BMW truck. Blacked out, tinted windows, black BMW rims.

• 11:02Channing Crowder?

  Kill you.

• 11:03Ryan Clark?

  You know what I'm saying? He parked right next to me. You feel me? So he walking in and I hold the door for him and he speak to me. And you know how people think it's you, but they don't know it's you? So I can see he staring at me trying to figure it out. So I walk to my truck and I go to get in and he look at me and I see him tell his kids, nah, that ain't him. So I feel like, hey.

• 11:29Fred Taylor?

  Process of elimination.

• 11:31Ryan Clark?

  My dog saw me hop in the Tundra and he was like, I know good and damn well Ryan Clark is not getting in this 2015 Tundra with the bumper hanging on. And because it's so old, I don't never get it washed. So it's like light beige instead of black. And I, so, yeah, man, I think, I think that's the one thing they might need to change about me in the second half of 2026.

• 11:55Channing Crowder?

  Hold on, man, run that thing.

• 11:56Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, bro.

• 11:57Channing Crowder?

  Engine good.

• 11:58Fred Taylor?

  I can see why he felt that way. Cause your suit's immaculate, like top notch, all your suits. You always teed up, dressed to the T. Haircut, always sharp. Then they see this truck. Ain't no way. He said, that can't be off.

• 12:11Ryan Clark?

  But, hey, but then look at his kids go, nah, that ain't him.

• 12:18Channing Crowder?

  You ran your damn truck into a ditch the other year.

• 12:21Ryan Clark?

  I did. It did.

• 12:22Channing Crowder?

  Yeah, I remember the video.

• 12:23Ryan Clark?

  Pulled it out and I ain't never take it to the place, man. On a more serious note, fellas, recently, Chris Johnson, CJ2K, one of the best backs I ever played against, announced that, you know, he had ALS and, you know, he's to a point now where his body has failed him. And he's, you know, speaking through a machine. He sits down with Michael Strahan, incredible job by Strahan, to sort of just tell his story and where he is and that he's continuing to fight. Freddie T, you know, as one of the best running backs who's ever played this game, see somebody who I'm sure you admired the way he played

• 13:03Ryan Clark?

  the game of football to now be dealing with something as serious as, you know, Lou Gehrig's disease. Just kind of what are your thoughts on that?

• 13:12Fred Taylor?

  For me, it's a reminder of how precious, you know, each breath is, you know. They, it's cliche to say, count your blessings. But we really have to count our blessings and every moment I think above ground, you know, we, we should treat that moment as the, as the last. Knowing Chris, hanging out with Chris, how great of a spirit, you know, he, he, he is. I don't want to say was, how great of a spirit he is. I'm thankful, you know, even, even as bad as it seems, right? As bad as we see it, as bad as we see it on the surface. I'm thankful that they have technology where even though he's

• 13:54Fred Taylor?

  lost the movement of his extremities and not being able to speak, the technology that he's able to speak and we can hear him. You can still see that, that optimism and that positive light that he's always exuded. So at least we still have that. And we also still have the ability to support a friend, right? Whether it be bucket challenge or encouraging people to, to donate to ALS to not only help Chris, but help others that are battling and fighting this disease in hopes that one day they can find a, a cure to help at

• 14:33Fred Taylor?

  least give them a better quality of life as they, they battle this, this disease. Saddest thing I have seen in a while. It touched me a lot. It made me think about my children. Made me think about myself, having played 13 years. A lot of times we can think we're invincible when we're on the, on, you know, on the field. So my heart goes out to Chris and his family. Devin Hester challenged me with the ice bucket challenge. Been traveling, hadn't had time to get to it, but I will take advantage and try to get that done today in support of it all.

• 15:08Channing Crowder?

  Man, encouragement and, you know, and like Freddie said it all, man, it's just, it's, it's wild to see a guy that physically talented body give up on him, like you say. I'm talking about Adrian Petersons to Money, Sean Lynch, to LaDainian Tomlinson, to Freddie, to those dudes that I played. CJ2K was right there. He called a screen one time and I heard a whistle and I thought that the play was over. It was him running past me and I said, oh, this dude is different. He was so fast. And to watch that interview and I think, I think Strahan did a good job. And to watch it and to see him, like you said,

• 15:51Channing Crowder?

  I'm fighting for my kids. And it just like makes you appreciate life. It makes you appreciate what you have. It makes you appreciate what you need to look at as priority because now CJ can't talk no more. So we take that for granted, sitting around talking like this. CJ has to use that computer screen, which is crazy technology, but appreciate that. Cause I can't even, when I watched that interview, man, I'm crying, I'm tearing up now. Like, this was one of the best athletes I've ever played against in my life. And now he can't even speak. So just appreciate it, man. Freddie, I think you hit it on the head. And, man,

• 16:31Channing Crowder?

  anything we can do, like you said, ice bucket challenge or whatever you can to raise money for that, to Lou Gehrig's ALS, man, let's do it because that, that was a, that was a, it was humbling for me, even though it didn't happen to me.

• 16:48Ryan Clark?

  Seeing Chris Johnson and, and where he is was a reminder that we continuously plan for tomorrow, but we have to live for today. You have to be present in your lives and in the people that you care about in, in their lives. Imagine a man's nervous system being so fine tuned, so tightly wound that he could run 424. And now imagine that nervous system fighting against you. You know, Eric Dane,

• 17:29Ryan Clark?

  who was McSteamy on Grey's Anatomy, like his decline was so rapid. You know, I remember telling you the story about the Schafers and I met their father in the airport and he said, if you could just get awareness out about this terrible disease and what it does to people and what it does to families. Seeing Chris like that, man, was a simple reminder that we are not in control. And there were some media members that not attacked Strahan, but criticized him and saying he had a responsibility to ask Chris about football.

• 18:08Ryan Clark?

  Because there is a slight connection, right? They say that football players, if you study it, are two to, two to four times more likely to suffer with ALS. But there's still genetic markers and environmental markers and, and factors that come into play. And my answer to that would be this. That's not the responsibility of Strahan or Chris. Their responsibility was to his kids, was to his family, was to all the people who've ever struggled with ALS or watch a loved one go through that, to say, you know what? Our person wasn't

• 18:48Ryan Clark?

  defective. Our person didn't get this through karma. This is just part of life. And to be inspired and motivated by watching him fight. I had an opportunity to sit with Steve Gleason for the Katrina doc I did. And whenever you sit with him, you have to send them over the question so they could be prepared to answer. And that's what Strahan did. I thought it was beautiful to see his wife stand beside him, to see the pictures of him and his family and for Chris Johnson to say he's fighting for his kids, man, like that. For someone I respect so much in that manner for what he was physically, I respect him even more for saying that he's not going to give up, even though his body's sort of giving up on him.

• 19:35Ryan Clark?

  Marshawn Neeland, who we lost, completed death by suicide. It was just revealed that he had, God rest his soul, stage one CTE, which in the grand scheme of things, doesn't necessarily change your behavior as much as the later stages, the three, stage four. When you hear something like that, Chan, and it's sort of the impact of football that it has on people like us who've played it, our kids who have played it, what is sort

• 20:18Ryan Clark?

  of your first inclination about those connections and what it could lead to with many of our friends and our teammates as you've experienced and maybe even ourselves and our children down the line?

• 20:31Channing Crowder?

  Man, it's such a question. All these smart motherfuckers in this world and I have to die for you to tell me what's going on? Like, am I wrong about that?

• 20:41Fred Taylor?

  Nah.

• 20:43Channing Crowder?

  You have to slice my brain up to see if I have CTE. Man, they can do better.

• 20:50Channing Crowder?

  I'm fearful because I was a banger. You were a banger. Your big ass was coming downhill. What has it changed? But there's also environmental things that go on too. There's life that goes on. There's, you know, kids. There's the world. There's jobs. There's financial stuff. There's all that. What is it really doing? And I think that's the biggest holdup for me is that when I wake up on a Tuesday and I'm not feeling right, is it because I would just argue with my financial advisor and I gotta do these taxes and I gotta do that? Or is it because I was banging my head into these big bastards for 20 years? And there's so much question about it. And that's what I hate about this.

• 21:35Channing Crowder?

  Every time and a lot of people ask, you know, players about the CTE stuff, bro. I don't know how y'all feel about it, but does anybody walk down a Publix aisle and go ram their head into another person's chest? No.

• 21:49Ryan Clark?

  Hey, I'm sure it's so weird though that does though.

• 21:52Channing Crowder?

  But like humans do not do that. We're never, we're never gonna jump up and just go ram my head into somebody. But we were told.

• 22:02Ryan Clark?

  To do it for a living.

• 22:04Channing Crowder?

  You know, near leg, near shoulder, hat and hands. Hat means forehead. I was taught to ram my face in the other grown man's chance for years and years and years. And I do worry about is, is it because it's tax season and I gotta do all this stuff? And my kids are in camp and we gotta do this and we gotta do that? Or is it something that physically is wrong with me? And that's why I woke up on that Tuesday upset. And I don't know. And I don't think a lot of players don't know. And you said it, I always bring up June Bug and tell you, I have personal, God, I won't even delete their phones out my number because it gets to me.

• 22:48Channing Crowder?

  That have, that we know football affected them. Did it affect us? That, and it's a, and it's a mystery and I hate fucking mysteries.

• 22:59Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 23:00Fred Taylor?

  Marshawn's diagnosis is just a constant reminder that we can't get away from it. I, I think it's, you know, it's, it's ongoing. It's, it happens annually that we're here having a conversation about one of our, our brothers. And it reminds me of most recently Alden Smith. We know there hasn't been a diagnosis yet. It reminds me of Junior Sayow. You know, it reminds me of Vincent Jackson, of, of Muddy Waters, who were one of the first guys that they discovered CTE in Philly Safety. I knew about that because Muddy's from near my hometown, Andre Waters.

• 23:43Fred Taylor?

  It also reminds me that parents are fearful of putting their kids in youth football because of the, the, the physicality and high risk of brain injury that could potentially lead to, to CTE. But I would say this, there's a risk of walking out of your house. You know, there's a risk of developing some sort of illness months after you're born. You still gotta live your life. You can't be fearful. Just live it up the, the best you can. Cause going back to what we just said about Chris Johnson, you can't take these days for granted. So we just gotta take full advantage of it as we go, man.

• 24:27Fred Taylor?

  The science has to be better. And I think they'll get there. The more, unfortunately, the more, more this occurs, I think they'll be able to find some sort of tech or whatever to sort of diagnose the, the frontal lobe and everything that's associated with, with CTE. But more than anything, man, my heart goes out continuously to his family, his loved ones, to the Cowboys organization and hope that we can find ways to give back CTE research. And even just having conversations like this, I think is important. But I, I would say, don't change, if you love to play football, basketball, ice hockey, or any physical sport or whatever it might be,

• 25:11Fred Taylor?

  do it 110 miles an hour because there ain't no straddling. The moment you straddle and hesitate is the moment that you really suffer. I wouldn't suggest that. So love what you do, man. And everything has a consequence.

• 25:26Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, I think the, the one thing that I'm pleased about now with Marshawn Neeland is that he gets to rest. And in his passing, by having his brain evaluated, his family was able to give us another step in the research of CTE. In stage one, it's like small protein deposits on your brain, you know? That don't, that doesn't take away that his mom passed in 2024. She was a huge part of his why, right? And the, the stressors of just living life in general.

• 26:09Ryan Clark?

  This, you know, depression and sadness and suicidal ideation, that's, that's not just a football problem. And I think as parents start to think about who their kids are going to be going forward, as young men make decisions about what they want to be, the question is, and it'll always be for me, would I have allowed fear to steal my destiny? I am 100% sure that the heart God gave me was to do what I did for a living.

• 26:51Ryan Clark?

  It's now been able to propel me into a second career where now I get to impact people in different ways. But I am 100% sure that who I was made to be was meant to strap on pads and wear a helmet and run into people in ways that other humans weren't willing to. And if being safe meant that I never got to experience that high, then I don't want to be safe. You obviously get to this point in your life and you wonder what the effects of those things will be.

• 27:35Ryan Clark?

  And if I'm being honest, there are times now that like I can't remember a name that I know I knew. Right? There are times that I try to recall something and it doesn't come to me right away. And unlike other people who are 46 and could just say, you know what? I'm just old or older and there's a lot of things in my head and I just, and that just slipped my mind. I don't have that ability because I do have to go, or maybe this is the effect of what I did for a living. And I can truly say, I really don't care.

• 28:18Ryan Clark?

  Because man, what I got to do, man, and the relationships I got to build and the way I've been able to take care of my family because I was willing to do that thing and I didn't want to do anything else was worth it to me. I pray that God keeps me. I pray that God covers me. I pray over my son every single day. But what this game gave me, man, was worth it. And, you know, I think that's just going to have to be the decision that people that decide to do what we did for a living have to be comfortable with.

• 28:56Channing Crowder?

  Do I like the mystery? No. Would I do anything different? No. That's the honesty of it. Pat Surtan Sr. talked about little Pat. Little Pat's about to be a Hall of Fame cornerback. And I asked him when little Chan was coming up, I said, man, I don't know if I want to let little Chan play football. Pat, Big Pat said, me and my wife were the same way with all the head injuries and all that stuff. He said, when I saw little Pat play football, he had so much God given talent. There's no way I'm not gonna let him pursue that.

• 29:39Channing Crowder?

  And so the fear, your fear, my fear with Lil' Chan, my fear, I have to let that go. That boy's playing football next year. Because you have to go see it, you have to see, there's only so many people that can run the ball like you. There's only so many crazy human beings that have knocked bitches asleep like you used to. But if you have that, think about how much football changed our lives. Why would we keep that for my children? Your sons are in the league right now. Your boy played ball at a very high level. I gotta see what Lil' Chan can do.

• 30:13Ryan Clark?

  And, you know, it's like, it makes you wonder too, what's the human and what's the game? Right? You look at Brandon Iuk, right? And here's what I do hate. I hate that anytime a football player does something erratic or out of sorts, all of these ding-dongs who can't run straight and say their name.

• 30:45Channing Crowder?

  What'd you call them?

• 30:46Ryan Clark?

  Ding-dongs. They gonna hit you, "Oh, S C T E." How about I headbutt you then? Because if I already got it, I might as well give you a little piece of it too. Right? But Brandon Iuk, some of the erratic behavior we've seen on social media. This is someone we had on our show before.

• 31:02Channing Crowder?

  Yes.

• 31:02Ryan Clark?

  He got his deal.

• 31:03Channing Crowder?

  Cool dude.

• 31:03Ryan Clark?

  Incredibly talented. When you see some of those things that he's posting and the way that he's moving, if you had a chance to advise him, how about that? Especially you, Freddie, with the wisdom you had. If you had a chance to advise him, what would you say to him if you had that opportunity?

• 31:22Fred Taylor?

  Look, man, I've dealt with injuries. You know, I know it can be a lonely place. I know if it's the perfect storm. When you mix in his injuries with the contract dispute that he had with the Niners and his, I'll just say it, his lack of maturity for a lot of it. This is what you get. It's like the perfect cocktail, this is what you get. And with that, it reminded me so much of Antonio Brown. Like, we forget how good at, Antonio was great.

• 31:58Ryan Clark?

  Hall of Famer.

• 31:59Fred Taylor?

  Brandon Iuk is very good. I would never put them in the same category per se, but this is a reminder to me that this kid was really, really good at football. And we have been neglected of that because of his actions, because of whatever he has going on with the organization. He's crying out for help of some sorts. That's my bigger concern is, when you dig deep, what's under all of that? Because the injuries, again, is very depressing. Now, you just want to get out there and play. What's his support team around him like? Is his people supporting him? Are they, you know, taking away from him? You know, are they leaning on him, taking advantage of him? Why is he crying out?

• 32:44Fred Taylor?

  Somebody has to be there to be able to talk to him and say, "Heyo, those tweets, we gotta think twice before we press go." Hopping on Instagram Live, we gotta be hesitant before we get out there because once it's out there, it's out there. Then you bring all this stuff to the surface. But yeah, man, I think, I'd like to know how it turns out for Brandon going into this season. I root for him. Brandon, if you happen to see this clip, man, we're rooting for you, we're here for you. Just a phone call or a text away. We want the best for you, whatever that looks like. If it's just constant talks, therapy, leaning to us, we're your big bros.

• 33:29Fred Taylor?

  And we just want the best for you. There's different ways to kind of attack this thing.

• 33:35Channing Crowder?

  And that was a nice uncle. I'm gonna be the mean uncle. Shut up. What's the point of what he's doing? Then he wanna go Jaylen, he wanna say, "I'm gonna sign with the Commanders." And then he wanna say, "Hey, man, man, you gotta defend me when a fan yells at you." Just be quiet. What did he just mess off, 26 M's? Is that the number?

• 33:55Fred Taylor?

  Close, or something.

• 33:56Channing Crowder?

  20-some M's you just messed off? Bruh, just be quiet, go enjoy yourself. Man, fly to Jamaica, go on the Dunn River Falls and walk up the waterfall. Like, what is the point? The new age athlete has to get out here and do all this stuff social media-wise? Just shut up, go get that check and play football at a high level. And that's the thing that I can't get about them. Honestly, BA, we sat down with him, I don't know where we were, somewhere in Texas, right? We sat down with BA, man, BA's a cool dude, bro. I don't know what you're doing or what your angle is, and I don't know if he has an angle on this, because it doesn't make sense. I'm gonna badmouth them, I'm gonna badmouth the guy I wanna go play with, I'm gonna badmouth my college teammate.

• 34:40Channing Crowder?

  I think you said it right, Freddie. Who's your circle? I think a lot of young athletes really need to sit back and say, "Who's your circle? Are they telling you the best advice? Can you have somebody to call? Can you have an uncle? That's why I called it that, well, you gave him the pleasant and I gave him the real." Man, get off that goddamn online stuff and go over here and play football and do what you do best and what God has blessed you with and not sit around here in that crazy, man? I do not understand it. BA, like Freddie said, you wanna hit us, I'm gonna give it to you raw. Stay offline, do what you do, go play ball, get on the team. You're gonna go crazy because you're very talented.

• 35:21Channing Crowder?

  But I don't, I do not understand why these athletes think it's very important to argue online. That's just a waste of time.

• 35:29Fred Taylor?

  And then they have, but they have to PR people in place. This is a whole situation where, you know, it's that, "I built this mentality." Right? I did this on my own. But I think that would simply help him, if he takes your advice, to just dial it back a bit.

• 35:46Channing Crowder?

  Not a bit.

• 35:47Fred Taylor?

  Consider the.

• 35:48Channing Crowder?

  It doesn't matter, Fred.

• 35:49Fred Taylor?

  Consider the consequences before you put that out there, because there are consequences. And as long as you're in that arena, that's one thing. But it gets tougher when the lights dim on the other side. So this is a young kid that we can try to reach out to and save before it gets to that point. Because it seems that he's crying out for help.

• 36:09Ryan Clark?

  I don't know if Brandon Iuk is crying out for help, but I do know he needs it. He's essentially ruining the rest of his life, one minute video at a time. I like BA. His number has changed, I DM'd BA. I know people who have also reached out to him. You don't go about life doing what he's doing and get to continue a career that is a blessing. Get to continue that as a career that you have to earn through the way you play it, through the person you are. You don't talk about a man like John Lynch, who is revered in many ways.

• 36:52Ryan Clark?

  He's revered as a man, he's revered as a Hall of Fame player, he's revered as a general manager who has been nothing but class. You don't speak about him in that way publicly. You don't speak about Kyle Shanahan, who showed last year he's one of the best coaches in football. Comes from a family that's dedicated his life to this game. You don't speak about him that way. You mentioned our sit-down with Brandon Iuk. The thing you didn't mention was, in the corner, was Jaylen Daniels. And this was before they were ever thought of to be teammates. It was about friendship.

• 37:34Ryan Clark?

  Regina, who is Jaylen's mom. You don't mention another man's mama.

• 37:42Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 37:43Ryan Clark?

  Right? You mention someone's mama, you have meant to disrespect them. And if we're friends, right? And you know the level of scrutiny, the way that my mother has been criticized, in my opinion, for loving me and the relationship that we had, why would you do that to me? Because you don't feel like I reacted to a fan in the way that you should, in the way that you would have liked me to? If you're Adam Peters and you're the general manager of the Washington Commanders,

• 38:23Ryan Clark?

  why would you want to bring that man into your locker room with your franchise quarterback? I was asked by someone during the time we did the interview, what did I think of Brandon Iuk? And I said to myself, "I think he's extremely talented. I think he would be someone that if you add to your locker room and your team, it makes you a better organization." I don't know if you can say that right now. He needs to stay off of his phone. He needs to talk to people who are close to him. And somebody in his circle has to not be a yes man. And say, "Say, bruh, you are fucking this up." Not only for you, but for the rest of your family.

• 39:08Channing Crowder?

  Money and success. It changes your address, it changes your mortgage, it changes your car. Don't let it change you.

• 39:15Ryan Clark?

  Yep, I agree.

• 39:16Channing Crowder?

  I don't know how much money he's made, I don't know what it did to him. But he is a different human that I'm watching online than we sat down with in Texas a couple of years ago.

• 39:24Fred Taylor?

  And you know why I felt that? Because you said the real F-word. You ain't say effing or freaking, like you.

• 39:31Ryan Clark?

  That's real.

• 39:31Fred Taylor?

  You dropped one.

• 39:32Channing Crowder?

  No.

• 39:33Ryan Clark?

  He was in a great position, man, and he's no longer in that position because of himself. And, I mean, you look at someone like Jaylen Brown, for instance, who has seemingly done a lot of things correctly, is now traded to the Philadelphia 76ers. And like, there's all this talk about why, like, all this negativity surrounding him. Chan, like, why do you think that happens, though? Like, a player that good gets traded and now all of a sudden he's like a cancer or some pariah? It's a team that won a chip two years ago.

• 40:14Channing Crowder?

  He was MVP candidate.

• 40:16Ryan Clark?

  This year?

• 40:17Channing Crowder?

  Yeah. Bald. I heard all the rumblings, now we're going back to the internet. I heard all the stuff about him being the smartest person in the room and all that stuff. I really think, now that I've done the research, Brad Stevens made an issue with the salary cap and the aprons and all that stuff. They could not keep all these guys. They couldn't keep Tatum and.

• 40:42Ryan Clark?

  Two cats making 300 million.

• 40:44Channing Crowder?

  You can't do it anymore. So I think they made a misstep there. And I think he does rub people the wrong way. I even saw him say something about he's not marketable. He's not marketable. Jaylen, I don't have no problem with you, bro, but like, I don't see you on any commercials. I don't see you doing anything. You know, he's a very smart dude. He does like speeches to Brown University. Like, he's a genius that plays basketball very well. But I just think that Brad made a mistake. For him to get Paul George and what, 1-2, 1-1 and 1-2? That's crazy. Rudy Gobert went for 5-1s.

• 41:24Ryan Clark?

  Mm-hmm.

• 41:25Channing Crowder?

  Rudy Gobert has two left feet. He blocks a lot of shots. But how can you give up Jaylen Brown for 1 or 2 and a 792-year-old Paul George? It's crazy.

• 41:38Ryan Clark?

  Oh, it is?

• 41:39Channing Crowder?

  792. Paul George is mummified right now. I don't think he dealt with it right, but once they shopped him for Giannis, once they put it out there that they want to get rid of him, there's no way Jaylen could have came back to Boston. I think Brad made a misstep. And I think Brad Stevens is a very good GM, whatever he is, president of blah, blah, blah. I think they made a misstep with Jaylen Brown, not figuring it out before. And once Giannis left and went to Miami, he didn't know what the fuck was going on.

• 42:15Fred Taylor?

  The business of the game, like, it is what it is, right? Championship teams eventually becomes too expensive. They have two elite superstars, Tatum and Brown. I think when they realized that Tatum, you know, injury from his Achilles a year ago wasn't as severe, or that he still had a lot of basketball left in him, they said, "Look, this is a toss-up. We prefer Tatum, who's clean-cut. He was recently thought of as a potential face of the NBA. He's what we are as a Celtic." Traditionally, it was a better fit for them to keep him.

• 42:56Fred Taylor?

  Jaylen Brown, there's been some rumors circulating that he wasn't happy, or this or that. I thought they could have got more for him.

• 43:04Channing Crowder?

  Yes.

• 43:04Fred Taylor?

  The caliber of player he is, I agree with you on that, Chan. But it's the business of the game. You know, now it's time to see what he's gonna go down to Philly, over here to Philly to do. So all eyes will be on him this season. But nobody can ever question Jaylen, how he works. He puts the time in, and he's deserved everything that he's gotten. And I'm sure he's gonna go out there and let you know why he was always considered one of the best guys in the NBA, and it starts next season in Philly.

• 43:36Channing Crowder?

  And let's be honest, Jason Tatum's better at basketball than Jaylen Brown. Is that an argument?

• 43:42Ryan Clark?

  I think it's arguable.

• 43:44Fred Taylor?

  Yeah, it's arguable.

• 43:45Channing Crowder?

  Jason Tatum's not better than Jaylen. And I'm talking about splitting hairs, but...

• 43:48Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, but I think that's what it is. But I think when you have both, you get to pick the one you like the most.

• 43:55Fred Taylor?

  Yeah, and that's what the...

• 43:56Ryan Clark?

  Right, and that's what it came down to. Jaylen Brown being traded may be business. The coverage circulating the trade is not. And that's all I would say. When a 19-year-old young man is coming out of Cal, the level of intelligence it takes to go to that school, and he's being called too smart, there's a little bit of coded language in that. We used to be a country, a society, that valued intelligence in leadership. I don't know when or why that changed when it came to Jaylen. And sometimes it's like, what that intelligence is attached to.

• 44:40Ryan Clark?

  With him, it's attached to awareness, and consciousness, and activism, and ownership, and culture, and community, and growth, right? Not unlike Russell Westbrook, or Chris Paul, or LeBron James, but they grew into those things as they became faces of the league. He seemed to have, like, already been that, right? And then it's like, is that intelligence collaborative, or is it combative? Right? But you've never called someone, or said it's about someone, they think they're the smartest person in the room if you think they're an idiot. Ever. You just called him an idiot.

• 45:25Ryan Clark?

  Right? So there is an understanding that he has this level of intelligence. And what happens a lot of times too, though, if you know something has happened that doesn't make sense, now you gotta spin a different narrative. Because we can't say the dude that was the Eastern Conference Finals MVP, ala Jaylen Brunson. The dude that was the Finals MVP, ala Jaylen Brunson. Who, when that happened, he's taken off. We love him. But it didn't happen that way for Jaylen Brown. So there's something there that's always been there about him that people feel a certain type of way about. And it's about him figuring that out.

• 46:08Ryan Clark?

  He does seem to address disrespect. He does seem to have a way about him that wants to be heard. And that's not always allowed for some people. It's not always accepted for some people. But the Celtics were hell-bent on not having him in the locker room. And to me, it's very much like you said. Attack the game, which you can't. So now they're attacking his character. Which, in my opinion, in the way that he's conducted himself, the level of intelligence he has, that should also be sort of off limits as it comes to him as well. I think before we go, this is like a question about leadership then, right?

• 46:53Ryan Clark?

  What does leadership truly look like? Because it would seem that Jaylen Brown has leadership qualities. Yet, you send him off for less than the Nets got for Mikal Bridges. So what would you say leadership is as we go?

• 47:12Channing Crowder?

  I would honestly disagree with you on Jaylen Brown being a great leader. I don't think he's relatable. I think you have to, I think real leadership, let me know if I'm wrong, the best leaders I know, I play with, they could go talk to the undrafted free agent guard, and they can go talk to the all-pro cornerback. And it's the same thing, we're all heading in the same direction. And I'm not saying Jaylen Brown is too smart for it. I just don't know if that's in him to go talk to the G League guy that's on the 10-day contract. I think that's what leadership is. I bring up Zach Thomas all the time. Didn't say, didn't talk a lot, didn't go out in the media.

• 47:57Ryan Clark?

  Do you think, honestly, do you think Kobe Bryant and Michael Jordan are relatable?

• 48:03Channing Crowder?

  No, I don't think they're a great leader. You said leadership. I don't think they're great leaders. I think they're great players. I don't think Jordan was a great leader. After watching The Last Dance, Jordan's not a great leader.

• 48:13Ryan Clark?

  They should win championships. That's what leaders do.

• 48:15Channing Crowder?

  Go ball. Right?

• 48:19Ryan Clark?

  People play around Michael Jordan, raised. People became better players because they were around him.

• 48:23Channing Crowder?

  Well, let's talk about the leadership of things. Does that really matter if you can go ball?

• 48:29Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, I think it does.

• 48:30Channing Crowder?

  Of what?

• 48:31Ryan Clark?

  I think there are a lot of great players who aren't great leaders.

• 48:35Channing Crowder?

  Yep, and I think Jaylen's a great player, and I'm not putting him on Jordan's level. You know what I'm saying, the guys you brought up? Do I think Kobe was a great leader? Is he gonna go talk to the 15th guy on the bench and try to teach him how to keep his elbow in? No. Bitch, you gonna be off the team next week. Like, what are we talking about? I think great players can be great players, and I think there's people with leadership skills. So to ask who is leader, a leader is somebody that can relate with everybody. If you're extremely talented and can ball, go ball.

• 49:07Fred Taylor?

  I think it's simple, man. You have to be able to maintain a standard, you know, accountability. If there's responsibility that needs to be handled, you have to be able to, you know, be responsible and get the job done.

• 49:25Channing Crowder?

  Were you a great leader Fred?

• 49:27Fred Taylor?

  No. I wasn't. I wasn't. I always said I led by example. You saw, I expected you to get in line. I've never been the rah rah guy. Let's go, let's do this. After a while, I developed that. It's for the guys around me to say whether it was great or not. If I impacted them, if I actually got them to follow me. And there are some guys, some examples where guys did follow me. There are some examples where guys follow me down the wrong path, too. Not necessarily saying bad things happen. But I wasn't always the guy that I turned into towards middle to the end of my career. Like, I had to kind of get there.

• 50:12Fred Taylor?

  I grew, right? So to answer your question, you have to ask the people that were around me that. So kind of take away when I said no, right? I could have been a better leader, is what I would say. After I went to New England,

• 50:30Fred Taylor?

  I learned how to be a leader, watching Tom Brady. You know, being able to be personable, but also be able to demand greatness. Be able to move with a sense of urgency. Be able to tell a guy when he's wrong. Be able to hold guys to a high standard. Like, those are the small things that make you a great leader. And when I left New England, the first thing I did was go back to Jacksonville and say, as good as we were in spurts, I wish I could have done this differently. So all of the guys that I had personal relationships with in Jacksonville at the time, the Darrell Jacksons and Rashine Mathews and all those guys, Mercedes Lewis, were still there. I told them, this is what it takes.

• 51:14Fred Taylor?

  I misled you guys in some instances, but this is exactly what it takes if you want to be successful. So that's how I weigh leadership. But now going forward, the way I'm able to give that to my children, holding them to a certain standard, showing them what accountability looked like, showing them what being honest looked like. Those are all qualities in being a leader. So I'm glad I was able to spend those two years in New England. They sort of opened my eyes to that. Otherwise, you know, I probably would have never been able to tap into it.

• 51:50Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, I think leaders need to have certain qualities, for sure. Not necessarily only these, but I think leaders too need to, at some point, have been great followers. They need to be extremely emotionally intelligent. And they need to be great examples. And what I mean by that is, from the follow standpoint, you have to know what made people great leaders in your life. You have to know what allowed a certain person or a certain person in a certain position to get the best out of you, so you know what it feels like. So you could see the signs of someone resonating with your message.

• 52:34Ryan Clark?

  And you got to be emotionally intelligent in the sense that what's going to get you going may not get you going. Right? And I got to understand that when LeDanee and Tomlinson stiff arms me in overtime for a walk-off touchdown, and I didn't eat that night, I didn't speak to nobody that night, that I actually am so hard on myself right now, when I walk into this meeting, I don't need you to mother F me because I've been mother Fing myself the whole night. That day, I might need you to tell me, man, I know you're going to rebound and be better this day. Or while we watching the film, and I do make the tackle, or I do get him down in the open field, hey, this is you right here.

• 53:19Ryan Clark?

  Let that one play go. You got to be able to understand that, right? The Greg Williams, mother F you, call you all these names, but the day the screen tells you you cut, crosses his legs, it tells you, nah, F them. F them, I love you. If I picked the team today, you here. That day changed my life. But he was emotionally intelligent enough to know he couldn't be that dude he always is in front of everybody else at that time.

• 53:41Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 53:42Ryan Clark?

  And the example part is this. I'm not expecting Bill Belichick to go make this tackle that he's telling me to go make. But he's asking me to work on something to a point to where I obsess over it. Right? He wants me to obsess over being in the right position. He wants me to obsess over creating the triangle. Coach Tomlin wants me to obsess over getting to the middle of the field. Are you obsessing over this game plan?

• 54:08Ryan Clark?

  Right? Like, when I'm in here, when I'm in here working, watching extra film, are you, can I see you? Because it's not about you had to have been able to do it, right? Those are gifts. It's in what you are tasked to do, are you willing to do the things you're asking me to do to complete my task? I got to be able to see that. And I think those things are more important about great leaders rather than do I like your personality? We don't have to be friends. But if I see, man, you line it up every day, and you give your all to do it,

• 54:51Ryan Clark?

  the thing I can respect about you is when, if I would have came to you as a linebacker and you missed a tackle, and I'd have been like, Chan, put your face on that motherfucker. You couldn't look at me and go, well, you wouldn't do that.

• 55:05Channing Crowder?

  Because you about to bang.

• 55:07Ryan Clark?

  Because I'm going to do it. And I think to me, like, those are the things in leadership that people miss because we want to read all these books about how other people led. You can only be you.

• 55:20Channing Crowder?

  I was a terrible leader.

• 55:21Ryan Clark?

  100%, still are.

• 55:23Channing Crowder?

  Yeah. Man, y'all bitches garbage, man.

• 55:25Ryan Clark?

  You're just a great dad, but...

• 55:27Channing Crowder?

  I love my children. Yeah, you my blood, but yeah, man. Samuel from SMU, coach, get him off the field, coach. I can't play with him. He's garbage. I would never encourage anybody. I mean, you need to make plays or don't make plays. If you don't make plays, I hate you. Bye.

• 55:45Ryan Clark?

  And that's a show, people.