#2517 - Taylor Sheridan

Taylor Sheridan is a writer, director, and producer of multiple series and films, including “Landman,” “Lioness,” “The Madison,” “Sicario,” and “Hell or High Water.” He is also a restaurateur, rancher, and author. His new book, “How Not to Die in Prison: A Survival Guide,” co-written with ex-convict turned personal trainer Tom Nelson, will be available June 23.www.simonandschuster.com/books/How-to-Not-Die-in-Prison/Taylor-Sheridan/9781668213452www.cattlemenssteakhouse.comwww.6666beef.comwww.bosqueranchheadquarters.com Perplexity: Download the app or ask Perplexity anything at https://pplx.ai/rogan. Visit https://wildpastures.com/rogan for 20% Off + Free Shipping Switch today at https://Visible.com for just 25/mo. Or Save $10 on your first month of Visible+ Pro with code ROGAN. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  The Joe Rogan Experience.

• 0:05Speaker 01

  Train my day, Joe Rogan Podcast my night, all day.

• 0:13Joe Rogan?

  What's happening?

• 0:14Speaker 03

  What's up, buddy?

• 0:14Joe Rogan?

  It's a hell of a fucking belt buckle. What is that? What is that? What's going on there?

• 0:18Speaker 03

  So this one is for a horse I have called Maverick Buzz the Tower that won reserve at the Futurity.

• 0:24Joe Rogan?

  And they give you a belt buckle if you win?

• 0:26Speaker 03

  A belt buckle and money.

• 0:28Joe Rogan?

  That's a dope belt buckle.

• 0:29Speaker 03

  Expensive belt buckle.

• 0:31Joe Rogan?

  So guys like you that understand horses, if you saw someone with one of those, you would know exactly what that is right away.

• 0:37Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. And the year, depending on the year, I'm gonna know the horse.

• 0:41Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 0:42Speaker 03

  It's like you had fighters.

• 0:44Joe Rogan?

  I guess. I guess it's probably similar. Yeah.

• 0:48Speaker 03

  Oh, that guy won the thing in 2012. He fought so and so on this. Same with me and horses.

• 0:51Joe Rogan?

  It's always so interesting to me how there's these different sort of categories of interests that people have that, you know, one person might not know anything. I don't know anything about horses. But you're like fucking balls deep, you know, fuck everything about horses. It's crazy. It's such an interesting, like, pool of knowledge, the people that are really into horses. And they start explaining, you go, oh, this is not as simple as, oh, that's a horse and that's a horse too. Like, there's genetic lines and there's certain tendencies that certain horses will actually pass on to their offspring.

• 1:25Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:26Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy stuff.

• 1:27Speaker 03

  There's a stallion, and I really like him, I've got a number of horses by this stallion. His name's Spooks Got a Whiz. And they're just incredibly balanced, real feely, very, very quick-footed, big stoppers. But they see dead people, they see ghosts.

• 1:41Joe Rogan?

  What?

• 1:42Speaker 03

  So like, once every three months, for no reason, this thing's gonna fucking check out. And I mean, check out. Just decide, it's not safe here, we're going back to the barn, you can come with me, or I'm gonna buck your ass off, or I'm gonna flip over. No, he just loses his mind.

• 1:59Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 2:00Speaker 03

  And you never know when it's gonna happen.

• 2:01Joe Rogan?

  And his children have this as well?

• 2:03Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:04Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 2:05Speaker 03

  Just a little quirk.

• 2:06Joe Rogan?

  And that's...

• 2:07Speaker 03

  But other than that, they're fucking automatic.

• 2:09Joe Rogan?

  That's a big quirk. That's like if you have a Corvette and it decides to drive home.

• 2:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, a little bit, a little bit.

• 2:14Joe Rogan?

  Most of the time, he could go to the store.

• 2:16Speaker 03

  We all deal with it, because they're worth it.

• 2:18Joe Rogan?

  I guess, but that seems so crazy, that the horse see... Do you really think it sees ghosts?

• 2:23Speaker 03

  He, I don't know what he sees, some kind of boogeyman. There, a lot of them are deaf, so.

• 2:28Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 2:29Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:29Joe Rogan?

  Why?

• 2:30Speaker 03

  So, well, there's a, there's a gene, typically if you see a horse with a white face, and the white goes above the eyes, typically that horse is deaf.

• 2:40Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:41Speaker 03

  And so they can't hear, but they can feel the vibrations, so like, that, that could, that could set one of those horses off.

• 2:50Joe Rogan?

  Just anything pounding on the ground that might be something chasing it?

• 2:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, they're prey animals.

• 2:54Joe Rogan?

  Right, right, right.

• 2:56Speaker 03

  So.

• 2:56Joe Rogan?

  Wow. The deaf thing's crazy. I wonder if that has any sort of an advantage, where they could sort of tune out distractions? You know, I would imagine if a horse is at a rodeo.

• 3:07Speaker 03

  Yes, a hundred percent, because, you know, this crowd's screaming and yelling's not gonna bother them. Now, if they start stomping their feet, I was gonna show this one horse of mine, and I'm about to run in the pen, and all these guys are cheering for this Italian rider, and they're all beating on the side of the arena.

• 3:23Joe Rogan?

  Oh.

• 3:24Speaker 03

  And my horse checked the fuck out.

• 3:28Speaker 03

  He checked the fuck out.

• 3:30Joe Rogan?

  Like a whole herd of elephants.

• 3:33Joe Rogan?

  Wow. I can imagine how weird that is for the horse.

• 3:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 3:36Joe Rogan?

  Like, it's being told to do something, but its instincts are like, no, we gotta get the fuck out of here. I can't hear anything. That's nuts.

• 3:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 3:43Joe Rogan?

  The hearing thing, there's a, a famous pool player, his name is Shane Van Boning. He's like, one of the greatest pool players of all time, if not the greatest, and he's deaf. And he has hearing aids, and when he plays, he shuts them off. He just goes click, and goes into this world.

• 3:58Speaker 03

  The zone.

• 3:59Joe Rogan?

  Just of balls and geometry, and just doesn't miss. Just is a horrifying person to play. And because of the fact that he's got that extra sense shut off, like, the hearing, he can shut it off. It's not just that, I mean, he's also obsessive, he practices 10 hours a day, I mean, he's an all-time wizard. Like, he's won the US Open, which is the hardest tournament to win in all of pool, he's won it five times. Which is just not, there's only one other guy in, in history, Earl Strickland, that's won it five times.

• 4:27Speaker 03

  Everybody plays pool, like everybody, a little.

• 4:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 4:30Speaker 03

  But then, the levels to the game. Like you start getting a professional pool player.

• 4:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 4:36Speaker 03

  And they're playing a totally different game.

• 4:38Joe Rogan?

  It's a totally different, just watching it, you realize like, oh my god, what am I doing? I'm hitting the ball way too hard. I don't know what I'm doing. My angles are all fucked up. Like this guy's playing that with English. I would've just hit it straight.

• 4:50Speaker 03

  And they're doing a spin, a backspin, it hits over here and the ball, it's just.

• 4:53Joe Rogan?

  It's the control of the ball. It's just like they're a part of the, the stick is a part of their body. The stick and the ball, they're all connected in space and time and they know where that ball's going within millimeters.

• 5:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 5:07Joe Rogan?

  It's nuts to watch. Like some of these guys, they'll hit a ball and it'll travel, it's a nine foot table. It'll travel all the fuck away around the table, like a 12 foot distance and it'll go in a two inch spot.

• 5:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 5:19Joe Rogan?

  And you just go, fuck me.

• 5:22Joe Rogan?

  It's cra- and then if you do that and you're deaf too, like you don't even hear the cheers. You're just still in the zone.

• 5:27Speaker 03

  It's just hyper focused.

• 5:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, just hyper focused. Autism probably helps too, if you have that.

• 5:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 5:33Joe Rogan?

  You know, a lot of.

• 5:33Speaker 03

  Little.

• 5:34Joe Rogan?

  Oh yeah, just a touch of the tism.

• 5:36Speaker 03

  I think.

• 5:37Joe Rogan?

  I think anybody's good at anything. Anybody's good at anything is either ADHD or autistic.

• 5:42Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah, they tried to give me medicine for the ADHD.

• 5:45Joe Rogan?

  Did they?

• 5:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, I'm like, fuck, no.

• 5:47Joe Rogan?

  How old were you when they tried to give it to you?

• 5:50Speaker 03

  Oh, when I, well, they did give it to me when I was a kid.

• 5:52Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 5:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 5:53Joe Rogan?

  What'd they give you?

• 5:53Speaker 03

  And then you're, who knows? But whatever, you're lobotomized, right? And then.

• 5:57Joe Rogan?

  Fuck.

• 5:58Speaker 03

  And so I stopped taking it just because I was, now you're just like, yes. You know, and so my parents were like, fuck it, just let him run around.

• 6:05Joe Rogan?

  My neighbor's kid, they gave it to him when I, when I lived in California. It was such a bummer. He was this wild little kid and they gave it to him and all of a sudden he was flat.

• 6:13Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 6:14Joe Rogan?

  And I was like, oh, and the lady was like, oh, he's on medication now because he's hyperactive. I'm like, oh my god. Not my kid, not my place. I'm not saying nothing. I just go to work. You know, I was single back then and I was like 28 or 29 and I was just so confused. How you could do that? And then I kept thinking like if somebody did that to me when I was a kid, for sure I would've been on drugs.

• 6:37Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 6:37Joe Rogan?

  If my parents knew about those options, they could shut me the fuck up. If I had the wrong parent, my parents wouldn't have done. But if I had the wrong parents, one hundred percent, I had all the traits that would have allowed me to get.

• 6:48Speaker 03

  It's a fucking superpower. If you understand it, it's a superpower.

• 6:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, if you could find something you love.

• 6:55Speaker 03

  People, people say, how in the world can you write a script? They write all these things. It's not that hard. Like, once I know what it is, I can sit, you could sit me in an airport. Around a thousand people, I won't hear them. And I can sit there for 12 hours straight.

• 7:09Joe Rogan?

  Cause you love it.

• 7:10Speaker 03

  I just get, I just hyper focus.

• 7:12Joe Rogan?

  But if somebody wants you to pay attention to the history of Pop-Tarts or something, it's not going in there.

• 7:18Speaker 03

  Physically can't do it.

• 7:19Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's not going in there. Yeah, that's, that's the superpower. The superpower is you could find something you love and focus on it, but. The way our education system is designed is so ass backwards. You take kids that are so energetic and they have so much life and you just squeeze it out of them. Just sit still, stay put, listen to boring shit. And all day they're just fighting this desire to scream and just run out of the building, go do something fun.

• 7:48Speaker 03

  Wasn't the, um, like essentially what we call the modern. Public education system founded by, or really by the Rockefellers as a, as a means to create workers.

• 7:58Joe Rogan?

  Yep, yep.

• 8:00Speaker 03

  Like, that's it.

• 8:00Joe Rogan?

  Compliant workers and soldiers.

• 8:02Speaker 03

  Conform.

• 8:03Joe Rogan?

  It's one of the reasons why they decided to start school so early for kids is the earlier you can start them, the more you can get them to do whatever you want them to do. And the more you can get them to pledge allegiance and get really excited about this, that, or the other thing. Including all the trans stuff that you see in school, all the pride stuff and teachers are. Working with preschool kids and they're talking about sexuality and you're like, they're fucking six. Like, they don't know what you're talking, like, why are you even talking to them about that? Because you can get them early and you can program. Those thoughts into their mind that this is a good cause and it could be anything. It could be your religion, it could be your political ideology, it could be. Being a Christian, being a Muslim, whatever. If you get kids young enough.

• 8:47Joe Rogan?

  You can talk them into doing almost anything. That's why they have child suicide bombers. They don't try to get. Guys in their 40s with a family to strap a vest on. They try to get kids. This episode is brought to you by the mosquito bowl. Here's a story that's pretty incredible. After Pearl Harbor, four of the best college football players in America walk away from promising NFL careers to enlist in the Marines and fight in World War II. And the craziest part, it's a true story. These guys had their whole lives ahead of them, but traded the glory of the gridiron for the brutal reality of combat where the stakes were life and death.

• 9:27Joe Rogan?

  Directed by Peter Berg, the guy behind Friday Night Lights and starring Nicholas Galitzine, Bill Skarsgård, Ray Nicholson, and Tom Francis. The Mosquito Bowl, in theaters October 30th.

• 9:41Speaker 04

  For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. Tremfya offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start. Tremfya is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four weeks, followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks. If your doctor decides that you can self-inject Tremfya, proper training is required. Tremfya is a prescription medicine used to treat adults with moderately to severely active Crohn's disease and adults with moderately to severely active ulcerative colitis. Serious allergic reactions, increased risk of infections or lower ability to fight them, and liver problems may occur. Before treatment, get checked for infections and tuberculosis.

• 10:24Speaker 04

  Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or need a vaccine. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Tremfya today. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more, or visit tremfyaradio.com.

• 10:40Joe Rogan?

  This episode is brought to you by ZipRecruiter. Hook up a better speaker to your TV and your home theater experience is immediately 10 times better. Or add a little extra treat to your dog's food. They get so happy at dinnertime. Sometimes it's worth it to go that extra step to find people who will do that for your business. Check out ZipRecruiter. Try it for free at ziprecruiter.com/rogan. ZipRecruiter has What you need to find great candidates fast like powerful matching technology to help sort through thousands of resumes and a feature that puts people who are the most interested and most qualified first.

• 11:23Joe Rogan?

  Try ZipRecruiter and meet great candidates who'll go the extra step for your job. Four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. Try it for free today at ziprecruiter.com/rogan. That's ziprecruiter.com/rogan. ZipRecruiter, meet your match on ZipRecruiter.

• 11:45Speaker 03

  And you know, what'll really bake a couple of noodles is if you look at, because all these things are funded, all these nonprofits and NGOs, they're all for, but where's the money come from? And when you look at where the money comes from and you realize, oh, wait a minute. And it's been coming for 40, 50 years from these places. Qatar, for example, obviously Russia, China, all these are enemies. Donating money to all of these various groups to divide, to just eat away from the inside.

• 12:17Joe Rogan?

  Russia's been doing it since the 70s.

• 12:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, 60s.

• 12:20Joe Rogan?

  60s, yeah. That Yuri Bezmenov, I'm sure you've seen that video. Anybody who hasn't, please watch it. It's Yuri Bezmenov and it's in 1984 and this guy is essentially describing what America is going to look like eventually and he's dead on. Just dead on. Dead on with the communism, the Marxism, the stuff in the universities, just completely poison their mind, push out any ideas of patriotism being a virtue, all the hate for America that you have, like all the division, all of it engineered. And it's wild.

• 12:54Speaker 03

  Just look at who it benefits. That's it. That's it. It's real simple. Just look and see who it benefits.

• 12:59Joe Rogan?

  Well, it benefits a lot of people in this country as well, unfortunately. There's a lot of people that really love division and they can profit off of it and they can work, work an angle, you know, we're with you. And this is a big part of the problem with the whole idea of nonprofits. Cause nonprofits in theory are awesome. It's a great thing that people are willing to donate their money, like wealthy people who are doing well say, you know what, I think my money could be best suited helping out other people. It's beautiful. It's one of the most amazing notions about people when they can be charitable when they don't have to be. They do it because they want to and they really want to help. Then you find out what's really going on and that the majority of the money is going to overhead and employees.

• 13:44Speaker 03

  Well, think about this. If if I create a nonprofit to go solve, well, LA is a perfect example. We can look at the homeless situation that they have there and all of these NGOs that are getting all of this money. And the problem is getting worse. It's not getting better.

• 13:59Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 13:59Speaker 03

  It's getting worse. But if I form an NGO and that's my cause and I solve the problem.

• 14:07Speaker 03

  Then what do I what do I do with my NGO?

• 14:09Joe Rogan?

  Exactly.

• 14:09Speaker 03

  Now I got no money. Now there's no reason to give me money. So they're they don't create them to solve problems.

• 14:14Joe Rogan?

  The incentives are totally fucked.

• 14:15Speaker 03

  exacerbate the problem. Make the problem worse, make it longer, make it bigger. Look how big the problem is. We need more money.

• 14:21Joe Rogan?

  Some guy was doing a breakdown of the people that work in the homeless industry, industry, I say in air quotes, in California. Because that's really what it is. It's they spent twenty four billion dollars on the homeless problem. And no one can account for it. And they they tried to get an accounting of it. They tried to do an audit of it and Newsom vetoed it. Vetoed it. Like, why would you want to know? Let's stop. Let's stop all that nonsense and build this fucking train track to nowhere that's never gonna get built.

• 14:50Speaker 03

  Well, they have a mile of it. They have a mile of that train.

• 14:52Joe Rogan?

  It only costs a hundred billion dollars. Relax. Like, things take time.

• 14:56Speaker 03

  They have a fucking mile. And they're like, well, we're trying to choose the path. How about right beside the I five? How about that? How about right next to the flat fucking highway?

• 15:04Joe Rogan?

  Everything they do sucks.

• 15:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 15:06Joe Rogan?

  How about that stupid fucking road over the highway to make sure the mountain lines are safe?

• 15:11Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 15:12Joe Rogan?

  It's like over a hundred million dollars still not done.

• 15:15Speaker 03

  And they have them, by the way, that's not a new concept. They have those throughout the West.

• 15:19Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 15:19Speaker 03

  And they don't cost shit.

• 15:20Joe Rogan?

  They don't cost much money at all. They they fix them quick. They do it quick.

• 15:24Speaker 03

  It's just.

• 15:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they're done in a couple of months.

• 15:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, pour some cement, put some sod down, plant some fucking grass, and away you go.

• 15:31Joe Rogan?

  Away you go.

• 15:31Speaker 03

  But they're but. We're applying logic to a state that doesn't use that.

• 15:35Joe Rogan?

  It's like, it is as goofy as it gets. And then you think it's as goofy as it gets, and then you hear that Portland just... Okay, so this is gonna be on the ballot in November. It got enough votes to be on the ballot. And this is some law that's under the guise of "stop animal cruelty." Well, who doesn't want to stop animal cruelty? I certainly want to stop animal cruelty. Let's stop animal cruelty. So what does it mean? It means no hunting, no fishing, no ranching, no agriculture, no animals that get harmed in any way. No killing chickens for Kentucky Fried Chicken. Nothing. No animals die.

• 16:14Speaker 03

  And this is a city ordinance?

• 16:15Joe Rogan?

  They're fucking... Oregon is voting on this in November.

• 16:23Joe Rogan?

  No fishing! No fishing! What are you saying? Are you fucking high?

• 16:30Speaker 03

  And no... so...

• 16:31Joe Rogan?

  No hunting, no ranching. Ranching? You can't ranch? You gonna kill a cow? What, are you crazy? That's illegal in Oregon.

• 16:39Speaker 03

  And here's... That probably sounds like a good idea to one of those people. But here's my question. All right, so let's do it. Let's just outlaw ranching. Let's just say, "Fuck it."

• 16:53Speaker 03

  Well, there's 91 million cattle in the country. So what will we do with them?

• 16:57Joe Rogan?

  You just leave them alone and let nature take its course.

• 17:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, but they're not... But there's no nature to take its course.

• 17:05Joe Rogan?

  It's not...

• 17:05Speaker 03

  It's just 91 million head of fucking cattle. And I can promise you this. If you outlaw me feeding them and taking care of them, I'm not gonna... Then they're wandering the highway.

• 17:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. And then the bulls are out?

• 17:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 17:18Joe Rogan?

  So you're gonna keep the bulls contained? No. The bulls are gonna kill people.

• 17:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, and make more cattle.

• 17:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and make more cattle.

• 17:25Speaker 03

  So now we have 900 million cattle in three decades.

• 17:27Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and fuck all your fences. Bulls are gonna smash them. Bulls are gonna eat your grass, bulls are gonna stomp your dog, like, what are you talking about?

• 17:37Speaker 03

  I can't.

• 17:38Joe Rogan?

  But it's not supposed to be logical. It's all just a vibe, man. It's like, and it's not even a well thought out one, but the problem is you don't have to be well thought out to get on the ballot. You just have to appeal to certain sensibilities and then all of a sudden people are like, "Oh, that would be good. Let's stop animal cruelty." And they're probably on SSRIs anyway.

• 18:00Speaker 03

  It'll, it'll probably pass.

• 18:02Joe Rogan?

  Nah, nah, I don't think it'll pass.

• 18:04Speaker 05

  According to this New York Times article, it was a guy, one guy.

• 18:07Joe Rogan?

  One guy?

• 18:08Speaker 05

  Got 135,000 signatures and got it passed to that level.

• 18:11Joe Rogan?

  I wonder how many of them are homeless people?

• 18:14Speaker 05

  He moved to Portland from Denver, from Southern California, where I'm trying to figure out where.

• 18:21Joe Rogan?

  Do we have a photo of this dude? I wanna see what this guy looks like.

• 18:24Speaker 03

  Of course, he's from Southern California.

• 18:26Joe Rogan?

  Of course he is. Is he vegan? Oh, that's weird. I would have never guessed.

• 18:30Speaker 05

  Teacher.

• 18:31Joe Rogan?

  Oh, substitute teacher.

• 18:32Speaker 03

  Keeps getting better.

• 18:33Speaker 05

  I lost it.

• 18:34Joe Rogan?

  What else?

• 18:35Speaker 05

  That's all it was saying. They didn't frame him very well.

• 18:39Joe Rogan?

  Well, they shouldn't. It's a crazy idea.

• 18:43Speaker 05

  There you go, Mickelson.

• 18:44Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 18:44Speaker 05

  Substitute teacher, vegan, and petitions organizer.

• 18:47Joe Rogan?

  It's to have a system where we're not killing or hurting animals anymore. I love how he said a system. What are you talking about? What does that mean? What's a system? You're talking about nature? What are you talking about? Like, they're gonna kill each other, stupid. Like, what the fuck are you talking about? Is it somehow another less cruel when a mountain lion gets into a pen of sheep and tears him apart?

• 19:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 19:11Joe Rogan?

  He figured the chances of meeting another gay vegan were better in Portland.

• 19:19Speaker 05

  He's probably right.

• 19:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's probably a good bet. Solid bet.

• 19:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 19:24Joe Rogan?

  Jesus.

• 19:24Speaker 03

  He was sitting there going, Midland, Texas, Portland, Oregon, where are my, where is my best chance to go be a vegan?

• 19:29Joe Rogan?

  Go to Portland and take some medication. Just fucking have a good time. There he is.

• 19:33Speaker 03

  There we go.

• 19:33Joe Rogan?

  Hey, fella.

• 19:36Speaker 03

  Oh, he's already gotten too much attention from us.

• 19:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's uh, there's a lot of silly people in the world and you know, like we were talking about with young people. If you get young people indoctrinated early enough to think these silly ideas make sense. Which is one of the reasons why I love that Kevin Costner moment on your show. When uh, he had explained to that vegan lady.

• 19:57Speaker 03

  Oh yeah.

• 19:58Joe Rogan?

  It's such a good moment.

• 19:59Speaker 03

  How cute does an animal have to be before you care if it fucking lives?

• 20:02Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and what the actual like what life gets killed. When you're just talking about farming, just food.

• 20:10Speaker 03

  Plowing a field.

• 20:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, just plowing a field or.

• 20:13Speaker 03

  Or go, or go build a road. You want to destroy some fucking organisms, go build a road.

• 20:19Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and if you're riding on those roads, you're in that system. And then there's the bees, like the amount of bees that die every year so we could have avocados is bananas.

• 20:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, bring them in from Brazil. By the billions.

• 20:33Joe Rogan?

  By the billions.

• 20:34Speaker 03

  By the bee.

• 20:34Joe Rogan?

  And they die.

• 20:35Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 20:35Joe Rogan?

  Bees and then on top of the, so it's avocados and almonds, those are the two big ones, right?

• 20:41Speaker 03

  Yeah, almonds, you know what's fascinating and I'm gonna, we can look it up. Almonds, the amount, it's something like nineteen gallons of water is what you have to give to get one almond.

• 20:59Joe Rogan?

  Is that real?

• 20:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, we could, we can, yeah, it's fucking bananas.

• 21:04Joe Rogan?

  My doctor told me almonds aren't even good for you.

• 21:06Speaker 03

  Well, you know, it's.

• 21:08Joe Rogan?

  He said they're okay for you, he said, but you know, there's.

• 21:11Speaker 03

  There was a time in the Mediterranean where they were, they were poisonous, they have strychnine in them. And it's one of the first domesticated plants. And what people realized, whoever Homo sapiens or Neanderthals, whoever's wandering around. They're like, the squirrels are eating those poisonous nuts from that tree. Huh, they're okay from this one, not okay from that one.

• 21:32Joe Rogan?

  Ah.

• 21:32Speaker 03

  So they started cutting down and uprooting all the ones where the squirrels wouldn't eat.

• 21:38Joe Rogan?

  Oh, interesting.

• 21:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, and so that's, and so the almond, originally.

• 21:43Joe Rogan?

  This episode is brought to you by Wild Pastures. Here's the deal, folks. Wild Pastures delivers 100% grass-fed and finished beef, pasture-raised pork and chicken, even wild-caught seafood, right to your door. I love their ribeyes. Just an excellent cut of meat. I had them last week. They're, it's great stuff. It's high-quality meat from animals that are raised the way nature intended. Outdoors, on lush, green pastures, no cages, no crates, no feedlots. Wild Pastures only works with small, family-run, regenerative farms here in the USA. So you're supporting American farmers and the land itself because regenerative farming restores soil,

• 22:26Joe Rogan?

  improves ecosystems, and protects biodiversity. And what's more, Wild Pastures nutrient-dense, zero-junk, high-quality meat is around 25 to 40% less than you pay for the same quality in-store. And right now, you can save even more with 20% off every Wild Pastures box and free shipping for life, plus $15 off your first box at wildpastures.com/rogan. That's wildpastures.com/rogan. Relatively water-intensive crop.

• 23:03Speaker 03

  1,900 gallons of water per pound.

• 23:10Joe Rogan?

  That's so crazy.

• 23:13Speaker 03

  And then, here's, here's my new, like, look, I'm a writer, right? So words matter to me, and when we, when we misuse them in our society, it just bothers me. Right? So, all these things that we're calling milk, like almond milk.

• 23:28Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 23:29Speaker 03

  And I'm, and I'm just determined to call it almond juice, because that's what it fucking is. It's not even almond juice. It's not like we're extracting.

• 23:36Joe Rogan?

  It's almond tea, almost.

• 23:37Speaker 03

  We're, we're taking almonds, pulverizing them, and brining them in water. Essentially leaching out the flavor of the almond and then adding a bunch of shit to it and sugar and whatnot.

• 23:47Joe Rogan?

  Adding a lot of sugar. My friend Duncan was like, dude, almond milk is good for you. I go, you're looking how much sugar is in there? And we were on the phone and he goes, holy shit. I go, yeah, man, that's why it tastes good. But my doctor told me I had oxalates in my diet, in my, my blood test. He said, your oxalates are kinda high. He goes, are you eating almonds? And I said, yeah. I eat almonds all the time. He's like, yeah, cut back. He goes, that's where it's from.

• 24:12Speaker 03

  Really?

• 24:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. See, find out how much, how much oxalates are in almonds. I just listened to him. And also, it's a lot of like, um, a lot of that gluten free flour stuff.

• 24:23Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 24:23Joe Rogan?

  If you buy a lot of that stuff, it's like almond flour a lot of the times.

• 24:27Speaker 03

  Right.

• 24:28Joe Rogan?

  Almonds are a high oxalate food. Eating them can raise oxalate levels that circulate, get filtered by the kidneys and appear in urine, which may increase kidney stone risk in susceptible people. Yeah. Almonds contain about 296 milligrams of oxalate per 100 grams, roughly four milligrams per nut, putting them in the high oxalate category. Yeah. Yeah, he said, they're not bad if you just have them every now and then. He goes, but don't, don't do it on a regular basis.

• 24:55Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 24:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 24:59Joe Rogan?

  There's a lot of stuff that is high oxalates that people don't think about it. That can really fuck you up. Kale, for instance. Like I used to drink kale smoothies all the time until another doctor told me, you really should cook the kale. Cook it and then filter out whatever the water's in it. I go, really? I go, why? He goes, the oxalates. He goes, you wanna cook the oxalates out of them.

• 25:18Speaker 03

  Really?

• 25:19Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and that's apparently what causes a lot of kidney stones. With some folks, they drink a lot of those green smoothies, which I used to do every day. I used to take a bunch of kale, throw in a bunch of apples and some ginger and some garlic and blend it all up and drink at the beginning of the day. I thought I was doing a good thing. And he was like, you're just blasting your system with oxalates. And I was like, oh, alright.

• 25:40Speaker 03

  Have some fucking eggs, bro.

• 25:41Joe Rogan?

  He said, have bacon, have some bacon. I'm like, fucking bacon's better for you? My journey of figuring out what to eat was a long one. It was a long one and thank God I got this podcast because if I hadn't had all those conversations with people where I realized like, oh, so we're like, and now the food pyramid's completely flipped, which is hilarious.

• 25:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 26:00Joe Rogan?

  But it's like, I've had enough conversations where I realized like, oh, all these people don't know what the fuck they're talking about and they're giving advice. And it's weird. It's weird how much bad advice there is for food and for health and for fucking, fill in the blank, almost everything in our society.

• 26:16Speaker 03

  Our food pyramid was created by Johnson and Johnson.

• 26:18Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 26:19Speaker 03

  Or Kellogg's, which is John.

• 26:20Joe Rogan?

  Kellogg's, one of those, yeah.

• 26:21Speaker 03

  It's like, how do we get people to eat our shit in the morning and then again at lunch? And then, well, the one thing that we can't control, and they talk about the, the one thing that we do not have is this massive industrialized meat production. Because there's no, there's no economical way to do it. They'd do it if they could. Harris Ranch, which you, you've probably seen off I-5, in, uh, in California's the closest version of that. But what it is is a feed yard, right? Where you get them together and feed cattle for 90 to 150 days before you go send them off and slaughter them, right? That's the closest thing there is to an industrialized beef industry.

• 27:02Speaker 03

  Because it's in a very inefficient way. It's way better to farm, right? It's more efficient to farm than it is graze cattle. So you only want to graze cattle somewhere that you can't farm.

• 27:13Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 27:14Speaker 03

  At the end of the day. You want to graze cattle or graze at taking protein from poor protein sources and metabolizing it. Right? So graze them in real rocky terrain with native grasses that, that you can't farm. Can't till it. You just can't. Um, and it needs to be eaten by something or weeds will overtake it, right?

• 27:34Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 27:34Speaker 03

  Grasses, grass grows better when it's being grazed. And so there's no way to industrialize that or centralize it. The most centralized it is is at the packing house, right? Where you've got four packing, major packing houses that control ninety something percent of the beef industry. And that's starting to change. Covid was extremely helpful for the smaller farmer and rancher to sit there and get their product out, right? And find small, they start popping up. People have opened these USDA facilities that, that don't process eight hundred head of cattle an hour. They maybe do fifty or fifty a day. And now people can go there because they're a USDA facility. They can buy beef directly from them, buy it from the rancher, right?

• 28:19Speaker 03

  And you can control where your food's coming from. As opposed to what, what was happening, um, where you'd get a bunch of, if you're going to go get a burger, you're eating some Australian killer bull, right? For the most part, or some, something from Brazil. Or you're not eating something that you want to eat, right? When you go to a nice steakhouse, the, the steaks there are, they're going to come from most likely Texas, Iowa, Nebraska, Montana. There's, there's select areas where people are spending that kind of attention and time to raise that kind of quality of beef, right? And it's being done by smaller ranchers.

• 29:03Speaker 03

  It may be a big ranch, but it's still operated by relatively few people. You know, four sixes is three hundred thousand acres, but there's twelve cowboys.

• 29:12Joe Rogan?

  Wow, twelve cowboys for three hundred thousand acres is nuts.

• 29:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 29:17Joe Rogan?

  How do they keep track of everything?

• 29:19Speaker 03

  I mean, we break it down into pastures and then you have, uh, and then the pastures fall under, the terminology is this, say, oh, if you're in Guthrie, there's a, there's a camp and we, we call it South Camp, um, because it's in the South. And it's responsible for fifty thousand acres, right? Which is broken down into multiple pastures that are between seven and ten thousand acres. There's one big pasture in that, in that camp that's like fourteen thousand acres. And so then you have North Camp, you have what we call, then we have camps around the town, little town of Guthrie. So you break it down into the responsibility of each cowboy's, um, somewhere between thirty five and fifty thousand acres.

• 30:05Joe Rogan?

  Wow. That's a hell of a responsibility.

• 30:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 30:09Joe Rogan?

  That's a lot of work, man.

• 30:10Speaker 03

  A lot of work.

• 30:11Joe Rogan?

  What's it, you know, what's really interesting about your shows, particularly Yellowstone? It got people like really attracted to the idea of brutal, hard work as being romantic.

• 30:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 30:22Joe Rogan?

  You know, people like really identified with those guys on Yellowstone that were just like so dedicated to that ranch, so dedicated to busting their ass and working all day, hard fucking work and then just hanging out together afterwards. And there's something about that life that's so simplistic and romantic to people that it just really resonated with so many people. They didn't even know that they liked that.

• 30:46Speaker 03

  Well, it's, it's uniquely American, right? And, and the amount of freedom that is, so we moved somebody out to South Camp. And we go, okay, so here you are, there's your house at South Camp.

• 31:00Speaker 03

  See you in a week or so.

• 31:02Speaker 03

  Go figure shit out.

• 31:05Speaker 03

  Keep tracking the cattle. And you, you give them a string of horses and they work their horses and they, and they ride that property. They know every inch of it and you don't ever, you don't, we don't, we don't have weekly corporate meetings.

• 31:16Joe Rogan?

  How do they get supplies? Is, is like the house stocked in advance?

• 31:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, or go to town. You know, towns, which is an endeavor, right? Town's ninety miles away. So you go to town once a week, right?

• 31:29Joe Rogan?

  Stock up.

• 31:30Speaker 03

  Stock up, go back.

• 31:31Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 31:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, but it's, it's.

• 31:34Joe Rogan?

  It's a crazy life.

• 31:35Speaker 03

  And people incorrect, not every, this isn't true of every cowboy, there's plenty of cowboys that typically they grow up on that ranch. And that's the life that they know, and that's what they want to do, right? But they still go off to college. Like almost every one of my cowboys has a ranch management degree. Like they went to school.

• 31:54Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 31:55Speaker 03

  To study.

• 31:57Joe Rogan?

  What's a good school if you want to be a cowboy?

• 31:59Speaker 03

  I mean, there's quite a few in Texas Tech. I mean, that's a phenomenal ranch management program. A bunch of the guys on the sixes went there. TCU has a ranch management program, a good one, Texas A and M. You know, we have vets that live on the ranch. Obviously, we breed a ton of horses. And so our vets, Colorado State's an excellent veterinary school for large animal vets. Obviously, Texas A&M is a phenomenal school, Texas Tech as well. Those are-

• 32:26Joe Rogan?

  Dude, how the fuck do you pay attention to everything? You're running a gigantic ranch and you have about forty-eight TV shows. How the fuck do you do it? I don't understand it. Every time a new Taylor Sheridan show pops up, I say to my wife, I go, "How the fuck is he doing this? Like, where does he have this time?"

• 32:43Speaker 03

  Part of it is, if you think about it, so my crew, my core crew is the same crew I made Wind River with. Like, when we had no money. I remember one time, I'm on the top of a mountain with me and my first AD and my DP, Ben Richardson, and there's not a producer, we haven't seen anybody in a week. And I looked at, we're freezing our asses off, it's seven below zero in northern Utah. And I'm like, "Guys, you know, we could just fuck off to Hawaii and nobody would know for a while."

• 33:15Speaker 03

  We have their money, and they don't know, they don't actually know where we are. They're just trusting that we're gonna make this movie, which we did. And it was incredibly difficult, but that's the same team that went over and did Yellowstone, which is then the same team that went up and did Mary Kingstown with me, and then Eighteen Eighty-Three, Twenty-Three, Lioness, Landman, all of them. And we've promoted from within. I've got PAs that are now first ADs. I've got camera operators that are now directors. So we've promoted from within, so everyone understands the way we do it. And it's so friggin' efficient. We don't ever have, and you know, because you've been in this industry forever, these people will have meetings upon meeting upon meeting.

• 33:58Speaker 03

  They'll have a, they'll have a tone meeting, where a whole bunch of people are gonna sit around and try and talk about the tone of the script. What, didn't you read the fucking thing?

• 34:09Speaker 03

  We have to have a meeting about it? How about we don't have a meeting about it? And then they'll have a, they'll have a, and this is also networks. They love this shit so that they can have a reason for their existence, right? All these middle management people. And they want to do a prop show and tell, where someone's gonna come show them all the props that we're gonna use.

• 34:26Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 34:27Speaker 03

  Well, we don't do that shit. Cause I'm like, I need your permission to use which, which bic lighter I'm gonna use in this fucking scene? How about I just make the decision? And how about we use the same bic lighter in all these fucking shows and I don't ever have to pick a bic lighter again? How about that? So we just streamlined it and made it to where it's so efficient. Typically a TV show will start up and they'll prep for 12 weeks before they start filming. We, we do it in four.

• 34:55Joe Rogan?

  Wow. Well, that makes sense. It makes sense that it's streamlined. Cause I've been on shows when they first start out and it's chaos and there's a lot of network involvement and there's a lot of bullshit. But then once it gets going, they go, oh, you guys know what you're doing. Leave me alone.

• 35:11Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 35:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 35:13Speaker 03

  We're there from the beginning now.

• 35:14Joe Rogan?

  That's beautiful.

• 35:15Speaker 03

  We haven't missed. You don't miss.

• 35:17Joe Rogan?

  Right. Well, it's like, you don't miss. Like you don't miss with the writing, you don't miss with the storylines. Like you don't have any duds, man, which is incredible. It's an incredible accomplishment to have that many fucking shows and all of them be good. And all of them be, you know, like very addictive. You know, Landman is so addictive.

• 35:33Speaker 03

  It's, it's, that show, it's about something very serious and then I can just throw shit at it. Let's just take a bunch of old people to a strip club.

• 35:43Joe Rogan?

  Billy Bob is fucking awesome.

• 35:45Speaker 03

  He's a genius.

• 35:46Joe Rogan?

  I love that guy. He's so good on that show. It's like it was made for him.

• 35:49Speaker 03

  It was made for him.

• 35:50Joe Rogan?

  I mean, he's done so many things.

• 35:52Speaker 03

  I went to Billy Bob before I, uh, before I wrote a word and I told him, I said, if you don't do this, I'm not gonna do it. Cause I'm not gonna chase my tail. He goes, well, what is it? I said, I wanna do, I said, basically I wanna take your character from Bad Santa and put him in West Texas and run the whole company. He goes, you want the guy from Bad Santa to run the whole company? I said, that's what I want. He goes, that sounds fucking awesome.

• 36:13Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's, it's educational too. I mean, a lot of people like have no idea how the oil business works and you watch that show, you're like, oh, Jesus Christ, what a crazy job.

• 36:26Speaker 03

  It's an insane job and, and, and the other thing about it is... We're so completely dependent upon petroleum in every single aspect of our lives, so completely dependent upon it, and we can debate how bad it is or isn't and or not debate it. The reality is, we don't have an alternative. Like, it does not exist. It simply doesn't exist. And we could sit there and say, "Well, when did this..." No. You sit down with any climatologist and any engineer, they're gonna tell you, "Our best hope for a replacement of petroleum fuels is cold fusion, and we're 30, 40 years from it." Being something that we can rely upon.

• 37:06Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 37:07Speaker 03

  And reduced little nuclear reactors, like itty bitties.

• 37:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 37:10Speaker 03

  Like, the size of this coffee pot.

• 37:12Joe Rogan?

  This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. If you've thought about trying therapy with our long-term partner, BetterHelp, insurance options may now be available nationwide with an average copay for eligible members of just $23 per session. And with World Mental Health Day on the 10th, now's the perfect time to give it a try. In fact, don't even wait until the 10th, because all that stress you feel, it's not waiting around. So, instead of letting it build up, sign up for a therapy session and unload at any time, not just on World Mental Health Day. If you've been waiting to start therapy, BetterHelp works with more than 125 health plan networks, and eligible members have an average copay of just $23 per session with insurance.

• 37:57Joe Rogan?

  Don't have insurance or live outside of the United States? You can still get 10% off your first month. Visit betterhelp.com to explore your payment options. That's better, H-E-L-P, dot com. This episode is brought to you by the farmer's dog. Here's a fun fact: research shows that dogs who maintain a healthy weight can live up to two and a half years longer, on average, than dogs who are overweight. Isn't that wild and also kind of obvious at the same time? So why is feeding vague scoops of ultra-processed kibble still the status quo for most dog owners? Healthy alternatives exist, and trust me, I know. I buy one, The Farmer's Dog. I use it for both my dogs. They love it. They eat it up quick.

• 38:41Joe Rogan?

  It smells good to them. It smells good to me. It's human-grade food. The Farmer's Dog makes fresh food for dogs, and my dogs love it. Their recipes are made with real meat and fresh vegetables that are gently cooked to retain vital nutrients. They also portion out the meals to your dog's nutritional needs, which helps avoid overfeeding and makes weight management easier. And isn't getting more time with our four-legged best friend something every dog owner wants? The answer to that is yes, obviously. So try The Farmer's Dog today and get 50% off your first box of fresh, healthy food. Plus, get free shipping. Just go to thefarmersdog.com/rogan.

• 39:25Joe Rogan?

  This offer is for new customers only. That's what they're talking about. They're talking about like individual reactors that people have in their homes. Like, how long does it take before there's disasters? That sounds funny. Having a really good nuclear power plant for a city is an awesome idea. Having everyone have their own nuclear power plant sounds fucking crazy. You know. How many assholes are gonna cut into that thing? Well, people still put fucking metal in microwaves, so I don't think we should be giving... I've done it. I'm like, well, how bad can it really be? There's people that leave their fucking gas on so that someone can die in the house. No, we don't need... People are nuts. People are nuts. If you literally have consumer-level nuclear power plants...

• 40:08Joe Rogan?

  Not with these monkeys. Not with the human beings that we are today, our current form. We're not enlightened enough to have personal nuclear power plants in our house. Oh, fuck. Yeah, so we're dependent upon it. Well, that's why we're in Iran right now. Oh, yeah. And also because of Israel. But, I mean, we're in Iran. I mean, the whole thing about it is the oil. The Strait of Hormuz, it's like, I think it's 40% of the world's oil supply passes through there. Yeah. Christ. No, that's... And I think also China. It's a big play against... It's a chess piece against China.

• 40:49Speaker 03

  That's what I think.

• 40:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, all of it's fucking terrifying.

• 40:52Speaker 03

  What a, and I'm not saying we should have or we shouldn't have, I'm not commenting politically, but what those guys, those SF guys did in Venezuela was fucking gangster.

• 41:07Joe Rogan?

  It's crazy.

• 41:08Speaker 03

  Whether, I'm not saying they should or shouldn't, I'm just saying.

• 41:11Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 41:11Speaker 03

  The team was sent and then the team, I mean, can you imagine? If I wrote it in a movie, people will go, that's fucking ridiculous, Taylor.

• 41:20Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 41:20Speaker 03

  You're gonna fly a bunch of SF dudes, drop them off on the roof of this high-rise, surrounded by the fucking Cuban special forces, and they're gonna kill all of them? And then they're gonna fucking snatch him and his wife, go back to the roof and just fucking fly away? That's what they did.

• 41:36Joe Rogan?

  And they're gonna do it with sound. They're gonna disable everyone with a sound weapon. Like, what? Like, there was, do you remember when they first started talking about that Havana syndrome? And people were dismissing it? This is horseshit, this is bullshit.

• 41:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 41:49Joe Rogan?

  Like, no, they're talking about people that are in Havana, that they've been targeted, something zapped them.

• 41:54Speaker 03

  Low-level frequencies that made them nauseous.

• 41:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and I think that is a fraction of whatever they unleashed in Venezuela.

• 42:00Speaker 03

  Who knows?

• 42:02Joe Rogan?

  The discombobulator, that's what it's called? Classified secret weapon system. President Donald Trump claimed US forces used during the January 3rd operation to capture Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro. He stated that the weapon successfully disabled enemy equipment and air defenses, preventing them from firing back. So it's, it's both, it disables the people and it disables their weapon system. What?

• 42:28Speaker 03

  That's amazing.

• 42:29Joe Rogan?

  What the fuck are we doing? Official silence. When asked for specific technical or operational details about how the device functions, Trump famously told New York Post, "I'm not allowed to talk about it."

• 42:41Joe Rogan?

  He says they pressed buttons. He claimed the Defense Forces pressed buttons and nothing worked, disabling both Russian and Chinese-made rockets and radar.

• 42:51Joe Rogan?

  Wow. If weapon affected both mechanical equipment and personnel, he also referred to it at, he also referred to a sonic weapon being used against Maduro's Cuban security detail inside a heavily fortified fortress. Fucking A, man. I would love to see what that looks like. You know, I bet they have video too.

• 43:12Speaker 03

  Oh, I'm sure.

• 43:13Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 43:13Speaker 03

  All wearing GoPros.

• 43:14Joe Rogan?

  I'd love to go into a skiff, just show me the video, I won't say nothing. I wanna see what it looks like. I just wanna watch. What does it look like when somebody gets zapped by sound and gets fully disabled? Like apparently they just fell to the ground in agony, they couldn't move.

• 43:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 43:28Joe Rogan?

  And they just went in and shot everybody.

• 43:29Speaker 03

  Some friggin SF snipers are just friggin on top of that, just raining down on them.

• 43:33Joe Rogan?

  Crazy, like that guy thought he was safe. Crazy. And there's a famous video of him saying, "Come and get me."

• 43:40Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 43:40Joe Rogan?

  Bro.

• 43:41Speaker 03

  Yeah, be careful. Don't, what bear you poke?

• 43:44Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, also, it's like, we, none of us know what the tip of the spear technology in weapon systems is available right now. We don't know. They don't tell us. They don't tell us. Obviously, no one knew this fucking discombobulator thing existed. This is science fiction.

• 44:00Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 44:01Joe Rogan?

  Right? If this was 20 years ago, you'd be like, "That's not a real thing." But now you're like, "Oh shit, they used it? It's not, and not just a concept, they fucking used it? What else, what are they, what are they cooking out in the desert in the middle of Nevada? Who knows?

• 44:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, and think about this, for that to be used, there's something four generations past that.

• 44:19Joe Rogan?

  Hundred percent.

• 44:20Speaker 03

  That they're playing with now.

• 44:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, a hundred percent. You know, this whole UAP world stuff, like when they start talking about UAPs, all of my bullshit alarms go off, all of them. It's like, I don't believe if you knew things, you would tell us. So I don't believe you're telling us the truth. I think they have some special access programs that they've been working on for decades and decades in some super high level shit that involves some sort of novel propulsion system, and they have that stuff flying around in the sky. And I think that's what a lot of people are seeing. That's what a lot of people are seeing. That doesn't discount the idea that there's something else out there, cause I think there

• 45:04Joe Rogan?

  is, but I think there's a giant chunk of the shit that people are seeing that's ours.

• 45:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, testing.

• 45:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, testing, doing stuff with it.

• 45:12Speaker 03

  If there was an intelligent life form that had stumbled upon our barbaric asses. Why would they not go, "Hey, guys, fire up that fucking missile and take, we found this blue planet, we gotta get rid of this thing."

• 45:24Joe Rogan?

  Well, I think maybe every intelligent species that's tribal and territorial has to go through an adolescent period of their evolution. And if you look at human history, you know, I was reading about Vlad the Impaler last night, Jesus Christ, and how many of the Ottoman Turks that got killed and his famous methods of putting people on posts and separating them down the line on the road so that as these poor guys are traveling to go and fight him, they just see the enemy stuck on skewers and in geometric patterns and shit, he would do them in like stars and stuff. Just he was a vicious motherfucker and he's the motivation behind or the, you know, the inspiration behind Dracula.

• 46:06Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 46:07Joe Rogan?

  And I was reading about that guy, I'm like, fuck, people have always been awful.

• 46:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 46:13Joe Rogan?

  They've always been awful, but they just like, as time goes on, they get a little less awful. A little less, like, we're a little less awful now than we were during Nazi Germany. Not totally great.

• 46:25Speaker 03

  Not collectively.

• 46:26Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 46:27Speaker 03

  Certain...

• 46:28Joe Rogan?

  We're still willing to do genocide, some of us are, but it's less, less approved, it's less, more people are horrified at it. It's like, human beings are getting a little bit better. It's, it's not as quick as we'd like. I think if I was an alien life form, I would say, "You have to wait this out." It's like, if you have a kid, you gotta let the kid fall down, stumble, you gotta let him get hurt. You gotta let things happen. You gotta let him fuck up and figure it out himself. You gotta figure this out, make it right. You fucked this up. You gotta give him a chance to become better.

• 46:59Speaker 03

  Right.

• 47:00Joe Rogan?

  I think as a civilization, I would think the same thing would apply. You have to give this civilization time to evolve and adapt and get past where it's at right now. And I don't think that you do that by intervening and like grabbing us by the hand and showing us the way. I think what you do is you hang back and make sure that we don't nuke each other and just sort of pay attention to all the different international ongoings and just let human beings slowly but surely evolve.

• 47:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 47:31Joe Rogan?

  That's what I would do if I was an intelligent life form observing people.

• 47:35Speaker 03

  The interesting thing that we're, as a civilization, facing now, and, and it's always happened in some capacity when a society gets...

• 47:45Speaker 03

  Wealthy, really wealthy, and people start to question wealth and how can we be more equitable? And it comes across like compassion, but it really comes down to a debate of what is more valuable to a society? Is self-determination more valuable, or is equity more valuable? And by equity, what I mean is everyone gets exactly the same shit, everyone. So you take them off, we're not on a monetary society anymore. Now, you're working for the collective, and you're hearing that word thrown around a lot.

• 48:16Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 48:16Speaker 03

  These days. The problem with working for the collective is who decides who picks up the trash? And who decides who gets to go represent your nation at the Olympics? Who gets to decide who gets to, um, is someone gonna let me go make TV shows? Which, by the way, I wouldn't do for free, it's too fucking hard.

• 48:38Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 48:39Speaker 03

  Um, so now I don't wanna do it. Well, then you gotta go do this, well, I don't wanna do that either. And that's the problem.

• 48:45Joe Rogan?

  And then they force you to do things.

• 48:46Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 48:47Joe Rogan?

  And then how do they do that? They do that with guns.

• 48:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, so then, so, so the, you either have self-determination, or in your attempt to be collective, you have to surrender that. And then you're surrendering it to who? And, and now you have a dictatorship, no matter what the fuck you thought you had.

• 49:05Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 49:05Speaker 03

  It always comes back to that. It always, you can, you can look at Marxism and Leninism and what Lenin was talking about, his hopes, whether they were his hopes or not. Um, but it, it devolved into a, an authoritarian regime very, very quickly. And, and, you know, communism, socialism, fascism, uh, Nazism, they're all very, very similar. The differences are superficial, I think Ayn Rand said, that they're just superficial variations between the exact same thing, which is the evil of the collective.

• 49:40Joe Rogan?

  The evil of collective and human beings desire to control their people.

• 49:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 49:44Joe Rogan?

  They love to. And anytime you give them a chance where they could feel righteous about controlling people, they jump at it. And they can, they have an opportunity to classify people. There's good people and bad people, and the bad people, you could do whatever you want to them. They're the other. And that, that happens with every, every time groups get into power like that. And tell you what you can and can't do. And you're seeing that being embraced, shockingly, more and more all over the world. People are embracing more government power and more government control. And it's really crazy. It's really crazy to see.

• 50:19Speaker 03

  It's unique. I think that, number one, I think in 30 years, when they look back, like, we're still suffering from a society, from COVID, like, still. And, and not so much from the disease itself, but from our faith in the institutions around us, whether it's government, whether it's the media, whether it's pharmaceutical companies. And the, the way that it was manipulated to gain power for a political group. And it was effective. And so when something's effective, then people just keep doing the same thing. Until it's no longer effective.

• 51:03Speaker 03

  Right? We did that in our military with the wins hearts and minds. Right? So that was all, that all comes from Japan. Right? We're gonna win the hearts and minds of Japanese. Well, the Japanese surrendered. Like, their emperor, who they looked at as a god, he told the people of Japan, after we dropped two frickin' nuclear bombs on them, hey, we are gonna endure the unendurable. We are going to surrender. It's the only way that we can salvage our nation. So they willfully surrendered. And then our government goes, look how great this hearts and minds stuff's working. It's not working. It's not working at all. And then they tried it in Vietnam, didn't work. Tried it everywhere else that we've had a conflict, we've tried it, and it hasn't worked yet.

• 51:46Speaker 03

  Because what it was based on was flawed. Right? Because they, they chose to be subjugated at that time. And, and making that choice kept them an independent nation. So our government, and it's so dangerous what we're seeing. You can like Trump or not like Trump. It doesn't, people are gonna like presidents and dislike presidents. But now defying the rule of law because he happens to be the head of the federal government, and openly defying the federal government. The repercussions of that are gonna be, okay, fine, you can't stand this man.

• 52:29Speaker 03

  You think he's a terrible president, and you're not gonna follow his laws. But that's the new normal now. So when a president gets in that you do support, then the other side, because we've established this precedent, they're just not gonna follow his laws either.

• 52:41Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 52:42Speaker 03

  And now we've eroded the rule of law.

• 52:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 52:45Speaker 03

  And then what happens?

• 52:47Joe Rogan?

  The slippery slope is very dangerous. It's, I mean, I was saying that when the ICE raids were going on, cuz I was like, okay, I am not in favor of illegal criminals being in this country. However, we're setting a very alarming precedent where you have masked militarized police with no ID that are running around the cities snatching people up. Like, this could set a precedent that could be used by the left if they get into power for something different than this being, than just for ICE. We've already accepted the idea of militarized police on our streets. And that people with seven weeks' training, you're just sending them out to snatch up

• 53:32Joe Rogan?

  people? And a lot of American citizens are getting caught up in that trap too, unfortunately, and then they have to get released. Like, that could be bad if the next party gets in. So if the Democrats get in next and they decide, like, maybe there's a new COVID strain happens, some new pandemic happens, whatever the fuck it is.

• 53:55Speaker 03

  And if you don't get the vaccine, they're gonna arrest you, and then they start the same...

• 53:58Joe Rogan?

  Yes. We saw it in, I think it was Minnesota, or whoever they had, the National Guard on the streets, but they had people enforcing lockdowns. And so they had people walking down the streets with fucking guns, yelling at people to get in your house, over a cold. Like this, these kind of slippery slopes, you might think, no, we're just trying to get rid of the bad immigrants. I get it. I'm with you. I agree. However, the way they're doing it, doing it, and I don't, I'm not even saying there's another way, or a better way. I'm just saying, you want to get them out all at once, yeah, that's the way to do it. You want to get them out quick, that's the way to do it. Because they got them in quick, you're right. They opened the fucking border, they helped people get in.

• 54:40Joe Rogan?

  But now that they're in, if you're gonna get them out that way, you're setting a weird precedent. You're setting a precedent that could be used in other ways.

• 54:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's, the, the, the challenge is, okay. We're gonna, we need to enforce the law.

• 54:56Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 54:56Speaker 03

  Or don't have them, right? They've, they've enacted no new laws, these are the same immigration laws that were on the books when Obama was president and Clinton was president, the same, the same rules. It's the, it's the methodology. And, and, uh, yeah, you gotta.

• 55:12Speaker 03

  You gotta sit there and weigh the pros and cons about, okay, the pros of trying to eradicate this issue, you can't give it a deadline.

• 55:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 55:20Speaker 03

  Right? Um, it's slippery.

• 55:23Joe Rogan?

  It is slippery.

• 55:24Speaker 03

  And, and again, it's what's good for the goose is good for the gander and, and these politicians right now who are doing all of us a tremendous disservice in Washington, I feel, our elected officials. Because they're, they're not thinking beyond this next election, and maybe they never have.

• 55:44Joe Rogan?

  They never have.

• 55:44Speaker 03

  Right. But they were better at hiding it, maybe.

• 55:47Joe Rogan?

  I think there was no internet.

• 55:48Speaker 03

  But, well, true.

• 55:49Joe Rogan?

  I think that's what it is, there was no social media.

• 55:51Speaker 03

  But I think we've reached a point, as they, as they, as politicians talk about eliminating the electoral college, they talk about eliminating the filibuster, eliminate packing courts, all these things because their side's not in power. And so we're just gonna take the structure of the government and totally rework it to benefit us temporarily. But then those same benefits that you have now will be used against you. They will 100% be used against you. I think the most important legislation that we could pass right now is term limits. I think, I think 12 years tops in Congress, and I think probably 12 years in the Senate. Two six-year terms in the Senate.

• 56:30Joe Rogan?

  That's more than enough time.

• 56:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 56:32Joe Rogan?

  That's a lot of fucking time.

• 56:33Speaker 03

  That's enough. We don't, we don't need any, anyone else. I mean, I don't know how it's become. How the fuck is Nancy Pelosi worth 400 million dollars? How the fuck? Well, I know how. Yeah, she gets in on all these fucking IPOs.

• 56:45Joe Rogan?

  Exactly.

• 56:46Speaker 03

  Right. She's gonna pass the legislation that allows Visa to go public. And then she's gonna get a big chunk of it. And then when she's confronted about it, look a reporter dead in the eye and fucking lie to them. I don't know what you're talking about. I didn't do that.

• 56:58Joe Rogan?

  No consequences.

• 56:59Speaker 03

  It's public, we know you did it. We could look at how much stock you own.

• 57:02Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 57:02Speaker 03

  Fucking liar.

• 57:03Joe Rogan?

  They all do it.

• 57:04Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 57:04Joe Rogan?

  People are calling out Ro Khanna on Twitter today.

• 57:06Speaker 03

  They get fucking rich. Everyone's getting rich.

• 57:08Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 57:08Speaker 03

  They get paid 175 grand a year and they're all fucking millionaires.

• 57:11Joe Rogan?

  Super millionaires. They're all like, like, she's intensely wealthy. That's, that's a, that's a, almost a half a billion dollars. That's nuts. As a public servant, that's nuts.

• 57:20Speaker 03

  Yeah. It's, it's insanity.

• 57:22Joe Rogan?

  And it's, um, you know, that, that's what we're used to. We're just, we, we just, we know it's bad and we just accept it. And people are busy and they have families and mortgages and shit to deal with. And so they complained and they keep on trucking.

• 57:37Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, I have, as we discussed, I have other jobs. I don't have a, a pile of time to dedicate to, it's tough for me to talk politics because I don't have hours in my day to sift through what's real and not real on Instagram or social, whatever. I'm not on that shit, but, but I can't, it's hard to form an opinion because, man, I don't know. And I don't know where to go to get honest news. I'm not the news. I know that. I can't turn on the fucking news because they fucking been lying to us.

• 58:07Speaker 03

  They, they stopped being, I don't know if they were ever impartial. But, but I know, I know that.

• 58:15Speaker 03

  I remember there was a guy, I was a kid, he was running for president. His name was Jack Kemp.

• 58:22Joe Rogan?

  I remember Jack Kemp.

• 58:23Speaker 03

  And I wanna say it was Dan Rather. It may not have been. It may have been some other newscaster. And there's a debate amongst all these different potential candidates for president. And.

• 58:38Speaker 03

  As he's introducing all of these various politicians, he's saying so and so Harvard graduate and law professor from here and this former senator and this and that and the other and this person here and they get to Jack Kemp and he goes backup quarterback and born again Christian Jack Kemp. I'm like, wow, you just sunk that dude. Everyone else you gave what their jobs were and talked about their accomplishments and this, you just said he didn't start at quarterback and he's, you call that his religion dude? And that's the first time I ever remember, I'm like, I know your opinion. I'm not supposed to know your opinion. You're supposed to be, you're supposed to be giving me news.

• 59:15Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 59:16Speaker 03

  You're supposed to be giving me honest, unbiased information so I can make a decision and you're making a decision for me or trying to.

• 59:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 59:24Speaker 03

  And they've gotten so, as news became entertainment, I mean CNN's the worst thing that ever happened to news because it's 24 hours and now all of a sudden, there's not 24 hours worth of news all the time, right? There is during a war, right? You can show us news, you know, war footage the whole time and talk about the war and why war and why no war, but when there's not, you gotta make some shit up or push an opinion and that's where we've gotten with news now. Now it's, news is piss them off and scare the shit out of them.

• 59:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 59:52Speaker 03

  That's how we keep them watching.

• 59:54Joe Rogan?

  And that's the business model.

• 59:55Speaker 03

  It is now.

• 59:56Joe Rogan?

  And it's also piss them off and scare the shit out of them, but ignore certain things that your sponsors wouldn't like you to talk about.

• 1:00:04Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:00:04Joe Rogan?

  This is why, you know, Tulsi Gabbard and her final act as Director of National Intelligence as she's leaving, she had that, she gave that press conference about Fauci and she talked about how he lied in front of Congress and that he absolutely used American tax funds to fund gain of function research through Eco Health Alliance and through the Wuhan Lab and Wuhan, China and, you know, no one's covering it.

• 1:00:33Joe Rogan?

  This episode is brought to you by Visible. How many of you are currently listening to this podcast on your phone? If you are chronically online, like most of us are these days, your wireless network should be too. With Visible, you get unlimited 5G and unlimited hotspot, all powered by Verizon's 5G network. The perks of big wireless for half the cost. Visible isn't just a wireless plan. It's unlimited wireless designed to keep you connected and no contract holding you back. Switch today at visible.com. Plans start at just $25 a month. Or get our premium Visible Plus Pro Plan

• 1:01:17Joe Rogan?

  and save $10 on your first month when you use promo code ROGEN. An exclusive offer for podcast listeners.

• 1:01:26Speaker 03

  No, and by the way, didn't we all know that already?

• 1:01:31Joe Rogan?

  Well, we knew it, but my parents didn't. People that just like, just read the newspapers and watch TV, they don't know.

• 1:01:40Speaker 03

  I've never seen anything as flagrantly obvious as COVID coming from the Wuhan lab studying COVID.

• 1:01:50Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:01:51Speaker 03

  I've never, and you've got fucking news anchors keeping a straight face saying, it came from the wet market.

• 1:01:59Joe Rogan?

  Did you ever see Jon Stewart's bit on it that he did on the Colbert Show?

• 1:02:01Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:02:02Joe Rogan?

  You never saw it?

• 1:02:02Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:02:03Joe Rogan?

  Oh, we need to play it. Let's play it because it's so funny because Colbert tries to like, stop him from doing it and push back. And Jon, he's a great comic. He just gets up from his chair and gets louder and just plows through it.

• 1:02:15Speaker 03

  Really?

• 1:02:16Joe Rogan?

  Over Colbert's like trying to cock block his bit. He's like, it's like, it's a funny bit. And he's getting in the way. Oh, I'd like to see, if you have information on that, I'd like to see it. And he just keeps going, he keeps plowing away. It's very funny. And it's in the middle of it, right? He was a, this was a courageous step because he was doing this when calling it out and saying that it came from a lab in Wuhan, China, was somehow or another conflated with racism. Remember that?

• 1:02:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:02:43Joe Rogan?

  You said it came from Wuhan, China, from a lab. You're racist.

• 1:02:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:02:47Joe Rogan?

  Like, how did you pull that off? Like, how did it's like, don't say anything. It's racist. It's from fucking China, and it seems like Eco Health Alliance funded it. And it seems like we funded Eco Health Alliance.

• 1:02:59Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:02:59Joe Rogan?

  There's a lot of fucking paperwork.

• 1:03:01Speaker 03

  And, and by the way, there's studies on the fucking disease.

• 1:03:04Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:05Speaker 03

  That they've been doing that are posted on the CDC website. They're posted on the fucking, my favorite was when you catch all this shit about ivermectin.

• 1:03:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:12Speaker 03

  And, and literally, when, when that happened, I went, oh, fuck, and look that up. But look up ivermectin and studies with ivermectin. And a study pops up on the, on the CDC website while people are telling us to not take that shit. And it, and it talks about the efficacy of ivermectin and the, and antiviral properties, specifically COVID-19.

• 1:03:34Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:35Speaker 03

  So it's on the government website that the fucking drug works while they're telling everyone to not take it.

• 1:03:43Joe Rogan?

  And they're mocking me for taking a horsey wormer. Watch this. This is great. This is great.

• 1:03:49Joe Rogan?

  No, you, you stop because he still wants to put out that establishment position. I'd like to see any evidence, if you've got any evidence.

• 1:04:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Well, wild times in the news because I think from then on, that sort of sent a shockwave through the majority of the population where just whatever trust they had in the news just got severely eroded.

• 1:04:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:04:14Joe Rogan?

  And if we don't have good news, if we don't have trust in the news, then we're kind of adrift. And then you get locked into fucking conspiracy theories and eco chambers online. And you can get trapped in them too, and that's not good either.

• 1:04:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, then, then there's nowhere to go get information.

• 1:04:31Joe Rogan?

  Has anybody in NBC, CBS, CNN, have any of those people picked up on that Tulsi Gabbard speech about Fauci and had any sort of a reaction to it? I'd like to know that because from what I was reading online, no, none of them had. But this was as of yesterday. I don't know whether or not that's changed. I don't know if like they were preparing an article and they wanted to make sure that they got all their ducks in a row.

• 1:05:00Speaker 03

  I would think pretty much any time the head of an institute.

• 1:05:06Speaker 03

  Is begging for a pardon when he hasn't been charged with any crime is is pretty good indicator. You might want to look and see if there's been a crime committed.

• 1:05:16Joe Rogan?

  Was he begging for a pardon?

• 1:05:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, Fauci, Fauci was like, he had, he had attorneys, this is in part of that deal. He had attorneys reaching out to Biden's camp the last day when he got the pardon.

• 1:05:28Joe Rogan?

  Geez.

• 1:05:29Speaker 03

  The very last day.

• 1:05:30Joe Rogan?

  Geez. It's just a preemptive pardon is nuts, especially when, when Rand Paul's questioning him and he's talking to him about specifically about what, what defines gain of function research. And by all account, by every definition, it's gain of function research. And Fauci's still saying, you do not know what you are talking about. With all due respect.

• 1:05:54Speaker 03

  Even though, even though he's a doctor.

• 1:05:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:57Speaker 03

  Rand Paul's a fucking doctor.

• 1:05:58Joe Rogan?

  He's an actual doctor.

• 1:05:59Speaker 03

  And then they said, well, you're an eye doctor. Well, that's my specialty. But before I became an eye doctor, I became a general doctor, which means I studied all the same shit that Fauci studied.

• 1:06:07Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:08Speaker 03

  You had to go through medical school before you go pick a specialty. So four years of studying the entire body before you specialize in whatever you're going to specialize in.

• 1:06:18Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's also then if you read RFK Jr.'s book, The Real Anthony Fauci, you'll find out he ran this exact same playbook during the AIDS pandemic. It was the exact same playbook. That's what the Dallas Buyers Club is about. The Dallas Buyers Club, that McConaughey movie about AIDS, the fucking villain is Anthony Fauci. He's the guy that's stopping them from getting alternative medications. That's the guy that wanted everybody to take AZT. You know why? Because AZT had already been approved. They had already used it as a cancer medication. It was a chemotherapy medication that they stopped using because it was too deadly. It was killing people quicker than cancer was killing them. So the first medication they gave people when they had an immune system that was compromised was a chemotherapy medication that was killing people. And they were giving it to people

• 1:07:03Joe Rogan?

  that were asymptomatic. They were giving, giving it to people that tested HIV positive. And then you know about the PCR testing. So the PTR says, Kerry Mullis, the guy who invented PCR testing, said publicly about Fauci, he does not know what the fuck he's talking about. I don't think he said fuck, but he does not know what he's talking about. And that it's not supposed to be used to detect a disease in a person's body. And that if you ramp up the cycles long enough, just like they did with COVID, where we got Some, by some estimations, 80% false positives because of the PCR method because they were ramping them up so high, and so they cut it back quite significantly, and that reduced the amount of false positives they had. But there's a lot of people that got

• 1:07:44Joe Rogan?

  tested as HIV positive that probably weren't, and they put those fucking people on AZT. And AZT kills you.

• 1:07:53Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 1:07:55Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, nuts. Most mainstream outlets are treating it as a serious but unproven political bombshell. They're reporting that Gabbard alleges, what Gabbard alleges stressing the documents are disputed and under review and highlighting how polarized the reaction is. Mainstream print, Jerusalem Post, Money Control, Newsweek summarize her accusations, emphasize that COVID's origins remain unresolved, and note that the claims about Fauci sparking COVID or lying under oath are heavily contested, not yet legally validated. Many stories frame this as reigniting a long-running fight over lab leak versus natural origin. Listen, that

• 1:08:37Joe Rogan?

  fight is over, kids. That fight's over. This, if you're saying, if you are in the news and you are saying that there's still a long-running controversy as to whether it's a lab leak or natural origin, shut your fucking dirty whore mouth, because it's not. There's, the fight's over. It's a fucking lab leak. They say the new documents will need independent scrutiny from Congress, investigators, and scientists before any firm conclusions can be drawn. Okay.

• 1:09:10Joe Rogan?

  Right-leaning media highlight her file dump as vindication for critics, focus on the cover-up narrative, and give prominence-based to Republicans like Rand Paul. Why does it... More centrist or mainstream outlets present it as a straighter news tone, often pairing Gabbard's and GOP's quotes with Fauci's past denials, and nothing there is so far, no judicial finding of perjury or criminal conduct.

• 1:09:33Speaker 03

  What I've never understood is how this became a left or right issue.

• 1:09:36Joe Rogan?

  So stupid.

• 1:09:37Speaker 03

  When, when Fauci, who's a career bureaucrat, right, through, I mean, when all this started, there was a Republican president.

• 1:09:47Joe Rogan?

  Yep.

• 1:09:47Speaker 03

  Right? And then he's, he served that Republican president, he served the Democratic president before that, and before that, and then he served a Republican, I mean, he's been there for fucking 50 years. This dude, it's not political. It shouldn't be political. There shouldn't be a right-left side to this. It's, hey, a career bureaucrat fucking lied to us.

• 1:10:08Joe Rogan?

  He used the exact same language when he was talking about AZT as a medication for HIV that he used for the COVID vaccine. "The reason why it's the only medication is because it is both safe and effective." Guy's a monster.

• 1:10:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:10:25Joe Rogan?

  So, like, he's one of those guys, like, throughout history, where you're gonna look back over time and you go, "Holy shit, this one guy's lies, this one guy's aspirations, this one guy's career fucked so many people over."

• 1:10:39Speaker 03

  Yeah. And I don't, and I don't understand why Democrats would wanna fall on that sword with, there's no reason to align.

• 1:10:47Joe Rogan?

  Because people are stupid, and they just decide that because a Republican's a president and the, anything the Republicans are pushing has to be bad. And that, that stupid fucking division, it's so, it's so silly. It's so silly. It really is. Because the same people during Trump's presidency were openly saying, "Are you gonna trust a vaccine that's created under Trump?" They were all saying it.

• 1:11:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:11:10Joe Rogan?

  Kamala Harris said it, a bunch of, Joy Reid said, they all said it.

• 1:11:15Speaker 03

  And then they, then they bet their entire political livelihoods on it.

• 1:11:22Joe Rogan?

  "We deserve better. We really do, or we don't. Maybe we don't. We fucking think they're good." We're so silly. Such a fucking silly group of human beings we are.

• 1:11:33Speaker 03

  That's fucking wild, man.

• 1:11:34Joe Rogan?

  Not all of us, though. You know, I think less of us now. I think, um, it's, it's gonna be way harder to divide people the way they divided everybody in 2020. It'll be way harder now. I think most people are just not buying it. And as long as people wake up to this left versus right nonsense, it's really just a big fucking hustle to keep you fighting with each other.

• 1:11:54Speaker 03

  Oh, for sure. Oh, for sure.

• 1:11:56Joe Rogan?

  Most of it. Even the ICE stuff that we were talking about. "Hey, folks, do you think it's a coincidence that the biggest fucking ICE protests were all going on in the same place where they found all that fraud?" Did, did, did, was it, it ever occurred to you, did it ever occur to you, that these organized, massive protests were all occurring in the same place where that Nick Shirley cat found fucking billions of dollars in fraud?

• 1:12:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:12:22Joe Rogan?

  Shocker. Kinda crazy.

• 1:12:23Speaker 03

  Didn't they pass, didn't California pass a law?

• 1:12:28Joe Rogan?

  A Nick Shirley law.

• 1:12:29Speaker 03

  To prevent that, that specifically that guy from fucking poking around in California?

• 1:12:34Joe Rogan?

  Yes, yes. I mean, they've even referred to it as the Nick Shirley law. The, the idea is to keep people from investigating fraud, which is outlandish. That is outrageous. That is a crazy thing to emphasize. And the thing is, well, you know, these people are showing up at daycares and looking in. Right, they shouldn't. You're right. A hundred percent. And people, random people from the internet should not be showing up at daycares with cameras. I agree. However, when there's no one in that daycare for years and years and years, and they can prove that fucking millions of dollars are being earned by that daycare, and there's no one in there, it gets a little weird.

• 1:13:13Speaker 03

  Isn't there a, isn't there a-

• 1:13:14Joe Rogan?

  It's not fully passed into law. Not yet.

• 1:13:17Speaker 03

  Isn't there a video of that kid, like, walking up to one of these? And these dudes get out and like, drive off in their fucking Bentleys?

• 1:13:25Joe Rogan?

  I don't know if those are real. There's a bunch of fake videos that were made by people afterwards that were just capitalizing on people wanting to click on something like that. And so they were just engagement farming by pretending. Like, the guy would show up and they'd go, "What? What are you talking about? I don't, I have no idea. This is bad acting." And they get in a Rolls Royce, like-

• 1:13:44Speaker 03

  It's just bullshit.

• 1:13:45Joe Rogan?

  It seemed like bullshit to me. I mean, I'm sure a bunch of those guys made a bunch of money. And I'm sure there is a lot of fraud. It just, like, they're admitting it. Minnesota's admitting it. They knew what was going on forever. You know, and then how about the fact that there's certain politicians that voted against this idea? So, one of those ladies that was killed, like, there was a lady and her husband that were murdered in Minnesota. And she was one of the few people that voted against providing Medicare for illegals. They were trying to, they were trying to pass some bill involving Medicare and illegals. And she was one of the ones that voted against it.

• 1:14:27Joe Rogan?

  And she was killed. The guy who killed her said that Tim Walz sent him to kill them. Now, I don't know if he's full of shit. He easily could be. He's a fucking crazy person. He's a murderer. He showed up at their house with a mask on and fucking shot them dead. And shot a couple other people, too. It's like, he's, you know, obviously, he's fucking cracked out. But, kinda weird. Kinda weird that the lady who wants to vote against this obvious fraud, this money that's being somehow or another funneled around through Medicare. Like, one of the things that Elon said when he was on the podcast is that Medicaid and Medicare fraud is one of the biggest fucking problems.

• 1:15:09Joe Rogan?

  And he was looking into a dog, he goes, "I almost don't want to talk about it because I don't want to get killed." He goes, "It's that bad." And this was before all this Nick Shirley shit. And now you're seeing it and you're like, "Oh, now I get it." These hospices that they have, these fake hospices in California, and then these, all the Somali daycare centers and all the different things, like, these people are just ma- Autism, the autism diagnoses went through the fucking roof, because now they can have these autism centers, so they just diagnose their kids as autistic, and then they're raking in all this money for treatment. It's crazy how much fraud there is.

• 1:15:45Speaker 03

  Hundreds of billions.

• 1:15:46Joe Rogan?

  Hundreds of billions of dollars, and just, what a shocker that that's the place where the big ICE protests broke out.

• 1:15:53Speaker 03

  People forget that-

• 1:15:54Joe Rogan?

  Today is brought to you by the number one brand for better sex, BlueChew. BlueChew Gold is a four-in-one powerhouse that gets your brain and your body on the same page for sex. Two ingredients get the blood flow pumping, and two ingredients prime your brain for arousal. No overthinking, just peak performance in as little as 15 minutes. Look at the stats, gold is three times stronger, five times faster, and eight times longer lasting than old-school methods. BlueChew Gold is the real deal. Right now, buy two months of BlueChew Gold and get the third free with my code ROGEN. You'll also receive free overnight shipping, that's promo code ROGEN. Head over to bluechew.com for details and important safety information. Check it out.

• 1:16:39Joe Rogan?

  This ad and the products being advertised are intended for a United States audience. This episode is brought to you by Chime. And I know people don't usually get excited about banking, but Chime is doing something different and it's worth paying attention to. In a recent survey, they ranked the number one choice for new checking accounts in America. That means real people, millions of them, are choosing this over traditional banks. That's because banking at Chime is fee-free. No monthly fees, no overdraft fees, and thousands of fee-free ATMs. But here's the real kicker. If you get their Chime Card, it gives you 5% cash back on a category you actually pick yourself. Your savings rate, crazy high. It's nine times the national average.

• 1:17:24Joe Rogan?

  They're calling it the most rewarding way to bank. Go to chime.com/rogan. Takes a few minutes to sign up. Chime is a fintech, not a bank. Banking services and Chime Card, provided by Chime's bank partners. Terms and limits apply. Go to chime.com/disclosures for more details.

• 1:17:45Speaker 03

  When Obama was president, he made a big public statement about going after government fraud. They were aware of it then. I mean, they've been aware of it for, it's always taken place. But on the scale, and, and he tried, and he caught resistance to the point that he wasn't able to do his version of a Doge.

• 1:18:03Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:18:03Speaker 03

  Which was, which was his intention. He gave a big public speech about it and, and tried to look into it. And he's, if you're stealing hundreds of billions of dollars, hundreds of billions of dollars, what wouldn't you do to protect that?

• 1:18:20Joe Rogan?

  Exactly. And that was Elon's point.

• 1:18:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:18:22Joe Rogan?

  And also, that money, for sure, makes its way into Democratic coffers. And probably Republican, too. And whoever the fuck is gonna be.

• 1:18:30Speaker 03

  Whoever's, whoever's enabling the fraud.

• 1:18:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, who's ever gonna, who's ever gonna help out? Whoever wants a piece of this pie is a juicy ass pie. It's a hundred billion dollar pie. Come get something.

• 1:18:39Speaker 03

  That'll almost bill you a rail system in California. If you get a mile of track.

• 1:18:44Joe Rogan?

  Or a second Kugur Bridge.

• 1:18:46Speaker 03

  Fucking car salesman. Have you had that guy on?

• 1:18:48Joe Rogan?

  No, no, he wants to be on.

• 1:18:50Speaker 03

  Oh, I'm sure.

• 1:18:51Joe Rogan?

  He talks a lot of shit about me. At first he was saying, Joe Rogan's not a fan of me, but I'm a big fan of him. He was like saying all this.

• 1:18:56Speaker 03

  Doesn't he have his own podcast?

• 1:18:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:58Speaker 03

  Cause that city, that state is running so well. The governor doesn't need to govern.

• 1:19:03Joe Rogan?

  It's so smooth. If you ask him, he'll tell you. He'll tell you how awesome this state is. He get the stats are incredible.

• 1:19:09Speaker 03

  People are moving there in record numbers.

• 1:19:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's not true. It's not true. It's um, it's uh, the, all the stats, the positive stats, they were already going on before he was the governor. It's, it's California's an awesome place. The fucking weather's perfect. San Francisco has always been an incredible tech hub of geniuses. There's always been a bunch of super wizards up there that are creating some of the best technology in the world. And that has nothing to do with him. Has zero to do with him and all these problems that their inept government has caused. Because that's the real problem with him as a governor. It's a real problem with Karen Bass as a mayor. It's a real problem with whatever the fuck happened to San Francisco. It's bad government. It's not upholding the rule of the law, not keeping people safe.

• 1:19:54Joe Rogan?

  Being empathetic to people that are shooting up on the street over people that are trying to walk their fucking kids to school.

• 1:20:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:20:01Joe Rogan?

  Like what you're doing is bad for society. It's bad.

• 1:20:05Speaker 03

  And, and it seems to me that for the most part, for the most part, if you are the mayor of a city. And, and when I was writing Yellowstone, the, the governor of Montana at the time, who was a Democrat, I, I called him and asked him. Uh, I said, hey guys, talk to you about what it's like to be a governor. What, what did you think it would be and what did it turn out to be? And what he said was, um, Steve Bullock is his name.

• 1:20:35Speaker 03

  He said, "Well, I thought I was going to, you know, make all these changes and do this and shepherd this, and I learned that I am the CEO of a state. And that my job as the CEO of the state is take care of the people who live in the state, the employees of the state, attract business here, attract tourism here, and try to make the state make more money and make lives better. That's my job. Infrastructure and city management and people management and tourism. That's my job. And to a, even more acutely to a mayor, you're really the president of a city, you're the CEO of the city, and your job is keep the lights on, pick up the trash, put out the

• 1:21:19Speaker 03

  fires, deal with the sewage, keep it safe. Like, that's it. There's no social anything, secondarily possibly, but run the schools, like, run the city. And, and you have in a lot of these big urban areas where they're so agenda-driven and they're, they're pushing a social agenda, and they're not running the cities. They're not running them at all. And so they're running into the ground. And it's tragic to see, because San Francisco, like you said, it's a beautiful city. L.A. used to be a, a, a faggot place where you could go and make your dreams come true.

• 1:21:54Joe Rogan?

  San Francisco was awesome 10 years ago, just 10 years ago. I, I filmed my special, Triggered, in the Fillmore in San Francisco in 2016. It was great. No problems. It was not, it wasn't homeless people everywhere. It was normal. It was normal San Francisco. Go to a cool restaurant, people are cool, always been like a smart city, interesting architecture, always been a great city. I lived there from the time I was seven to 11.

• 1:22:21Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:22:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. I loved San Francisco. It's unrecognizable now. 10 years. That's it. 10 years of fucking asinine government. And also... This homeless thing, when you realize that it's an industry, the homelessness is valuable. Having homeless people on the streets is valuable because you can get more money to deal with this obvious homeless problem. The more obvious the problem is, the more money they're gonna throw on it. They don't have to fix it.

• 1:22:51Speaker 03

  Well, there's no, there's no intention to fix it.

• 1:22:53Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:22:53Speaker 03

  They're giving, they're giving out free needles. Here.

• 1:22:55Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:57Speaker 03

  Get high, here.

• 1:22:59Speaker 03

  It's, and I was, I was just somewhere where my first experience seeing the homeless in this magnitude. And the one thing that's evident instantly is they're all so completely strung out on drugs. Like, this fentanyl thing is no fucking joke. Like, the zombies leaning against every corner of, and, and, and to me, it's cruel.

• 1:23:25Speaker 03

  Right?

• 1:23:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:26Speaker 03

  Like, if, if someone's to that point, you, and you wanna help them, don't give them a fucking iPhone and some more needles. How about you pick them up off the street and you take them somewhere and go, "Look, there's a curfew here, and you ain't doing no drugs."

• 1:23:38Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:23:39Speaker 03

  "We're gonna clean you out." Um, and, and some aren't gonna want that. They're gonna wanna go back on the street and do drugs. Uh, and, and the addiction and the consequences of drugs that are that, I had surgery, they had put me on fentanyl. I had neck surgery, and they put me on fentanyl. There's high, then there's that shit. And that was done by an anesthesiologist. I wasn't self-medicating in a fucking parking lot, right?

• 1:24:02Joe Rogan?

  What'd you get done to your neck?

• 1:24:04Speaker 03

  Uh, C67.

• 1:24:05Joe Rogan?

  Fusion?

• 1:24:06Speaker 03

  No, no, no, no, no. They, I had the.

• 1:24:08Joe Rogan?

  Dissectomy?

• 1:24:08Speaker 03

  The disc, yeah.

• 1:24:09Joe Rogan?

  Just cut some of it down?

• 1:24:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:24:11Joe Rogan?

  It's okay now?

• 1:24:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:24:13Joe Rogan?

  How long ago did you get that done?

• 1:24:15Speaker 03

  Was it maybe three years ago?

• 1:24:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I wish I'd talked to you.

• 1:24:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, three years ago.

• 1:24:19Joe Rogan?

  If that ever happens again, don't do that.

• 1:24:21Speaker 03

  Don't?

• 1:24:21Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 1:24:21Speaker 03

  Well, it'll happen again.

• 1:24:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I'm sure it will. Um, there's other ways. There's way, yeah, there's PRP can help it. Regeniquine helped mine. I had a pretty bad bulging disc in my neck.

• 1:24:32Speaker 03

  What's regeniquine?

• 1:24:33Joe Rogan?

  Regeniquine is, um, they used to have to go to Germany to do it. Uh, I know Peyton Manning went there, Kobe Bryant went there. And Dana White actually flew to Germany to get it done. Um, it is, uh, it's like an advanced form of platelet-rich plasma where they take your blood. They, uh, there's a process to it. Pull it up, Jamie, because I can't remember what the process is. But they spin it in a centrifuge for like 10 hours. And then you come back the next day and they inject it and it makes this very potent anti-inflammatory. And they inject it around wherever the injury is to the disc. And, uh, it provides like within weeks, amazing relief. And for me, it completely cured it. I, I had a point when my fingers were going numb.

• 1:25:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's what.

• 1:25:15Joe Rogan?

  Uh, German, uh, go back up.

• 1:25:20Joe Rogan?

  Back to where, yeah. So, German physician, Dr. Peter Welling, uh, the treatment focused on blocking a specific inflammatory protein interleukin one. So they take the blood out, um, they draw your blood and then the blood is heated to body temperature to trigger the production of a natural anti-inflammatory protein called IL-1RA. And then they spin it in a centrifuge, uh, separating out the protein-rich serum. The serum is then injected directly into the painful joint or tissue. Dude, it was remarkable for me for, uh, knee injuries. I did it a bunch of times. I used to do it at, they, they moved it. You, you used to have to go to Germany and then Santa Monica, they opened up an office. It's Lifestyle Medicine, that's what it's called, right?

• 1:26:03Joe Rogan?

  Um, and then, um, that's where I had it done. And you, it's incredible, like it, I had it done my entire back. Like, there's a picture of me on the, on Instagram with a bunch of these fucking tubes in my, that's me right there.

• 1:26:16Speaker 03

  Oh shit.

• 1:26:17Joe Rogan?

  A bunch of those tubes in my hairy ass back.

• 1:26:20Joe Rogan?

  And, uh, it was incredible. I mean, it really fixed so many problems that I had.

• 1:26:26Joe Rogan?

  It's, uh, really great for, specifically for back injuries, knee injuries, stuff like that. There's a lot of good biological options. There's also. Decompression is very important. I have a harness that I attach to a pull-up bar. And it straps under my chin and I just like let my weight drop down and decompress my weight on my neck. I do that every day. And I also have this thing called a Dex 3. Is it Dex 2 or Dex 3? Uh, you, you hang forward, uh, it's like Teeter makes it, you know, that company that makes those decompression tables? But this one's even better, cause you just hinge from the hip. So you're not supporting it at all with your legs. And it's just your back. It just goes like pop, pop, pop. Like you could feel it.

• 1:27:08Speaker 03

  I made one of those.

• 1:27:08Joe Rogan?

  I'll show it to you. We have one out here. We have two of them out here actually.

• 1:27:11Speaker 03

  Really?

• 1:27:11Joe Rogan?

  Right out, yeah, in the gym. It's, they're, uh, they're the shit. I have one at home. I don't, I, I will not not have one. I have to have one. It's so good for just decompressing your back. But you need to decompress the neck too. Anytime you're doing anything, if you're deadlifting or squat, obviously you're lifting a lot of heavy weights. If anytime you're lifting weight, you gotta think of all that, all that pressures on your back, all that squashing down. And you gotta do some of this, stretch it out.

• 1:27:36Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 1:27:36Joe Rogan?

  Stretch it back out. But there's ways to heal it now without taking away the disc. So the problem is every time they cut away a piece of your disc.

• 1:27:43Speaker 03

  You got less disc.

• 1:27:44Joe Rogan?

  You got less disc. Yeah. So the good news is, there's some treatments that they're doing now where they're actually injecting some sort of a hydrogel.

• 1:27:53Speaker 03

  I've heard about this.

• 1:27:54Joe Rogan?

  Into the disc itself. So I asked Brigham from Ways to Well about that and they're looking into it and they're trying to. Apparently this is not being done, um, widely yet. This is like, this is just experimental. But they, they think they're going to be able to do that. There's also some places like CPI, uh, Cellular Performance Institute down in Tijuana. They've successfully been injecting stem cells into people's discs. And it causes the disc to regenerate tissue and get thicker and healthier.

• 1:28:24Speaker 03

  Really?

• 1:28:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Um, Shane Dorian, my friend, he's a pro surfer and a big wave surfer and bow hunter. He, he went down there and he said it was remarkable. He said within a couple of months, it like a 30 to 40% increase in range of motion.

• 1:28:37Speaker 03

  Really?

• 1:28:38Joe Rogan?

  Decrease in pain. Yeah, you could feel it. It's kind of an annoying process, cause once you do it, you can't really do shit for like six weeks. Like once you, I think it's six weeks.

• 1:28:47Speaker 03

  Well, that's what, same with the surgery. You're not doing shit for six weeks after that.

• 1:28:50Joe Rogan?

  But you can't lift weights. You could walk. You could walk. You know, it's all, it's all, the whole thing is like, let everything take. Like let it take, let it heal up. Don't do anything stupid. Don't re-injure it. Don't aggravate it. Like give it a chance to actually do its magic.

• 1:29:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, I'll look into that for sure.

• 1:29:08Joe Rogan?

  But any neck injury or back injury, they're such a motherfucker. Anytime your back goes out, you're like, eh, everything you do is like, ah. It's so hard to do anything. It's like you realize like how nice it is to be healthy when, you know, whenever you get hurt.

• 1:29:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, no back pain, that's, that's what killed my stepfather.

• 1:29:26Joe Rogan?

  Back pain?

• 1:29:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:29:27Joe Rogan?

  Did he just get on pills?

• 1:29:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:29:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I have a friend in the family that did that.

• 1:29:32Speaker 03

  Yeah, he was in, I remember one time we were fishing up in Wyoming and

• 1:29:37Speaker 03

  and he just, he was like, I can't do it, back hurts too bad. And he went in and had a surgery and the, made it worse, which is

• 1:29:44Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:45Speaker 03

  Which is a real, real risk when you start messing around with the spine, right?

• 1:29:52Speaker 03

  And so, yeah, and then it was, you know, those are serious pain. Now we're talking oxy.

• 1:29:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, now you're in just agony all day long. Yeah, and you can only do that shit for so long.

• 1:30:04Speaker 03

  Now you're on a clock.

• 1:30:05Joe Rogan?

  Oxy's are fucking terrifying. They're so terrifying.

• 1:30:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:30:09Joe Rogan?

  So terrifying how readily they were handing them out too forever.

• 1:30:13Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:30:14Joe Rogan?

  Did you ever see Painkiller, that, the Peter Berg thing that he did for Netflix?

• 1:30:18Speaker 03

  No, I didn't.

• 1:30:18Joe Rogan?

  Fucking great, man. So Matthew Broderick plays such a great creep. Oh, he played the Sackler brother, the Sackler.

• 1:30:26Speaker 03

  Oh, really?

• 1:30:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, the head of the family that started this whole opiate problem that we have in this country. It's fucking terrifying because it's all real. And those fucking people never even went to jail. Who knows how many people are dead because of them?

• 1:30:38Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 1:30:40Joe Rogan?

  They generated fucking billions and billions of dollars, killed a bunch of people, ruined countless lives. How many lives, people that were connected, your dad gets hooked on that shit, it ruins your relationship with your, your family, you, you wind up being all fucked up because you grew up with a dad who was throwing out on pills.

• 1:30:57Speaker 03

  Yep, no, generation.

• 1:30:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:00Speaker 03

  Generational damage.

• 1:31:01Joe Rogan?

  Oh, God, yeah.

• 1:31:02Speaker 03

  And these guys put their feet up.

• 1:31:03Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they go to a fucking nice country club and have the lobster. Cock suckers. There's so many of them in this world. There's like, that's genuinely evil.

• 1:31:13Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:31:13Joe Rogan?

  There's real demons. There's, that's a real demon. Like, people wanna think demons live in hell and, you know, that's, that's kind of maybe, may or may not be real. Well, no, they're on earth.

• 1:31:24Speaker 03

  They're right here.

• 1:31:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and they justify it. They figure out a way to justify it. And they're around a bunch of other people who justify it too, and they can just immediately dismiss any pain or suffering because they got a huge amount of profit from it.

• 1:31:42Speaker 03

  Yep, those are the fuckers.

• 1:31:44Joe Rogan?

  Those are the fuckers. Yeah, they're out there.

• 1:31:46Speaker 03

  And, and it doesn't take many of them to create, like, real carnage. I mean, think about that. Think about the opiate issue in this, and it's still going. It was the gateway to fentanyl, right? If you think about it.

• 1:31:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it was the gateway to fentanyl, and it was, uh, it was also, it's like, they were doing those page ma- pain management centers down in Florida. Where they just, all they prescribed is pills. So you would go and like, I'm in pain. They're like, oh, Taylor, we've got the solution. It's right next door. And you go right next door to their pharmacy, and all their pharmacy has, like, they don't have Bengay over there. They don't have toothbrushes.

• 1:32:21Speaker 03

  Oxy.

• 1:32:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they've, we got oxy.

• 1:32:23Speaker 03

  Here you go, buddy.

• 1:32:23Joe Rogan?

  This is the solution.

• 1:32:26Joe Rogan?

  Fucked.

• 1:32:27Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 1:32:29Speaker 03

  Yep, that's the real drug trade.

• 1:32:31Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm. Yeah, right? Yeah. I mean, the cartel is basically getting the scraps. They're, they're making trillions of dollars off scraps.

• 1:32:39Speaker 03

  Well, think about this. Did you even know what fentanyl was fifteen years ago? I never heard of it.

• 1:32:43Joe Rogan?

  No. I don't even remember when we first heard about it, but when we first heard about it on a podcast, we were talking about it, and we found the amount that's lethal. And they showed it next to a penny, and they're like, what? That can kill you? And people are taking that? And they're mixing that in cocaine? Holy fuck.

• 1:33:02Speaker 03

  And there have been over zombies on the side of the road.

• 1:33:05Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Philadelphia's bad, too. There's a bunch of cities that are just real bad with it, and it doesn't have to be that way. And what's interesting is this Ibogaine initiative that Rick Perry and Brian Hubbard are pushing in Texas and that I went to the White House to get Trump to be involved in and they're trying to make this so that it's you have a right to use or I think they call it right to use or right to try for people that are addicted and they're trying to make it more readily available and accessible to veterans. That's the thing that could help all these people.

• 1:33:38Speaker 03

  What is it now?

• 1:33:39Joe Rogan?

  Ibogaine, you don't know what that is?

• 1:33:40Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:33:41Joe Rogan?

  Ibogaine is a it comes from the iboga tree in Africa and it is this very potent psychedelic that has no recreational use at all. It's not fun, nobody likes it. It's not like you trip, you see zombies and fucking hang out with aliens, uh-uh. You go into this very dark experience for like 24 hours where it like replays your life to you in a very uncomfortable way and also somehow or another rewires addiction in your brain. And for a large percentage of people, just one dose is good enough to get them off of everything, whatever they're on, whether it's alcohol, gambling, coke, whatever the fuck it is. But for two doses, when they do it twice, it's significantly better.

• 1:34:26Joe Rogan?

  And it doesn't just do that. Rick Perry, who was the Republican former governor of Texas, was staunchly anti-drugs. He's said this is his main focus in life now is to promote this. This is his goal in life because he did it and he had an incredible reaction to it and he knows so many veterans who have done it. It's incredible for PTSD, somehow or another it has neuroregenerative properties where he went there and they said, he went to his doctor before and you know, doctor did a whole scan of his body and he said, look, you've got a certain amount of age-related brain atrophy. It's like, it's fine, but you know, it's normal that you're 73 years old or 74 years old. So he goes and does the Ibogaine.

• 1:35:07Joe Rogan?

  Sees his doctor a short time afterwards and the doctor says, it's 25% less atrophy than when you got the last scan. And he explains to him the whole Ibadan thing. He goes back six months later, it's all gone. He has no brain atrophy anymore, which is bananas. So it's regenerating brain tissue. It's making his brain work better. And it's just.

• 1:35:37Speaker 03

  Pharmaceutical companies aren't gonna let that shit out.

• 1:35:40Joe Rogan?

  Well, they didn't like it. They didn't like that I bypassed them and went straight to Trump and told them about that. But Trump was very open to it. He said, what are you looking for? You looking for FDA approval? Like, let's do it. Like, that's literally what he said. And then a week later, we were at the White House and he was signing it. So it's incredible. But if so many veterans have had to go over to mostly Mexico, but Costa Rica, there's a bunch of different places that they go where they can have these Ibadan retreats. And these guys have had incredible results. Marcus Luttrell, he had an incredible result from it. He had a real problem drinking. You know, obviously, he's the guy, Lone Survivor, the movie's based on his experiences over in Afghanistan.

• 1:36:21Joe Rogan?

  So this guy, you know, he's done it, he's gotten over it because of that. Like, there's a long, Sean Ryan, long list of guys who have had this experience and it completely changed them.

• 1:36:34Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 1:36:35Joe Rogan?

  Dakota Meyer did it. So many of these guys did it. And because of their stories, because all these veterans, then it like kind of opened up the idea to a lot more right wing people that would maybe be like more hesitant to accept something like this. Then on top of it, no recreational use. Like, no one's like, boy, I can't wait to do that again. Everybody's like, holy shit, this sucked. I had diarrhea, I threw up, I felt, I was horrified for fucking 12 hours. Apparently just takes you through every aspect of your life, like review like a movie. All the times you've ever hurt people, you see it from their perspective. Like, yeah, it's like very, it's a very dark experience for a lot of people, especially a lot of people that have fucked up a lot of their life, you know?

• 1:37:16Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 1:37:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but if those people had access to IbaGame, all these homeless people that you see strung out, if instead of just giving them needles and an iPhone and like profiting off of it, if somehow or another these assholes can figure out a way to profit off of these centers, we could bring people in and give them IbaGame retreats, maybe that would be a nice little fucking exit strategy for all these grifters that have been profiting off of the homeless industrial complex for so long.

• 1:37:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, you know, they're not trying to solve problems.

• 1:37:47Joe Rogan?

  No, no, they're trying to make money. That's what I was saying earlier when we're talking about charities. That's the saddest thing that I've come to the realization that most nonprofits are fucking scams, like most of them, most of them. And this guy was like reading off like the average amount that these people that are in charge of the homeless program in L.A. are making. It's extraordinary amount of money. It's a great living. They're not doing it because it's like some sort of very charitable thing that they really want to save the world and help people. No, they're making tons of money.

• 1:38:22Speaker 03

  At the, at the, they're...

• 1:38:24Joe Rogan?

  This episode is brought to you by LifeLock. Scams have gotten smarter because criminals use AI to flood you with fake texts, emails, and phone calls that are designed to be more convincing than ever. One wrong click could put your personal information and your identity at risk, so protect yourself with LifeLock. LifeLock helps detect and alert you to threats, and if your identity is stolen, LifeLock will step in to fix it, guaranteed or your money back. Dedicated, US-based, identity restoration specialists will work with you until your identity is restored, backed by the million-dollar protection package with up to $3 million in coverage for eligible losses and expenses. Visit lifelock.com and

• 1:39:09Joe Rogan?

  save up to 30% your first year with the promo code JRE. That's promo code JRE, or go to lifelock.com/jre for 30% off. Terms apply. This episode is brought to you by ShipStation. Black Friday is Matt Madness if you're shopping, but if you're the person trying to get all those orders out the door, that's a whole different kind of crazy. That's where ShipStation comes in. It's an end to end order fulfillment platform that brings all your orders into one place. So when volume spikes, your team isn't scrambling to keep up. More than one million businesses have used ShipStation to get through peak season,

• 1:39:50Joe Rogan?

  scaling fulfillment up to forty times while cutting costs up to thirty percent. It's the kind of tool that helps businesses stay in control when things get nuts and every order matters. Peak season doesn't wait and neither should you. Get ahead of it today with ShipStation and get sixty days free at shipstation.com with the code J R E. That's shipstation.com code J R E. Taxes and fees apply.

• 1:40:22Speaker 03

  They're performative entrepreneurs, if you think about it. Come up with a problem, then go pitch some version of Karen's solution to a government and take the fucking money and never solve the problem. Because as soon as you solve the problem, and if you do somehow accidentally solve it, then go find another one.

• 1:40:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and I think that's one of the reasons why shows like Yellowstone in particular, that show like people that are proud to work hard and really get like deep satisfaction out of that life. And there's something about that that really like resonates with people. Like there's a better way than just bullshitting people. There's a better way than fraud and nonsense and all this political horseshit that's pumped down your throat every day. No, how about a fucking, just a sleeping bag and the stars? How about that? Just lying there with your horse tied to a tree? Isn't that really what everybody wants? Isn't, doesn't really everyone to cook their dinner over a fire and laugh with all their friends?

• 1:41:26Joe Rogan?

  Because that's what they really want. That's, that's really sounds good.

• 1:41:30Speaker 03

  Something simple.

• 1:41:31Joe Rogan?

  Something real, something that, that's like, there's, it's not that simple. Because it's hard to do all that shit, but there's something about it that's pure. It's pure. There's no if, ands, or buts.

• 1:41:42Speaker 03

  You spend a lot of time outside, right? And, and The entire thing's an endeavor, right? If you go on, you go bow hunting, you know, you're gonna, you're gonna practice, prepare before you go. Then you're gonna hike your ass in somewhere, you're gonna have to set up a camp. And all of these are tasks before you've even gone to do the thing you went there to do, which is gonna be another task, but the completion of them is the reward.

• 1:42:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:07Speaker 03

  And the fact that you're doing it yourself. Everything done yourself. I think that's, and that's why people are so attracted to the life. That's why I've got, you know, third generation cowboys that went and got a degree in ranch management to come back and make, you know, three thousand dollars a month and couldn't be happier.

• 1:42:24Joe Rogan?

  It's wild, isn't it? It's really wild when you think about it. It's wild what people actually gravitate towards. Cause they say that, have you ever seen that Werner Herzog documentary, Happy People?

• 1:42:35Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:42:37Joe Rogan?

  It's called Happy People, Life in the Taiga. And it's all about these trappers that live on the Taiga River in Siberia. And all these people do is trap and hunt and fish. They don't have any other way to make a living. That's all they do. And they're so fucking happy. And they're all laughing together and drinking together and hanging out with their dogs. And their dogs are sled dogs. And so they're on, they're on snowmobiles and the dogs are chasing behind them and the dogs hunt with them. And these fucking people have like zero mental illness. And when they're talking to them, they're talking in Russian, so it's all translated. But what they're talking about, like the way they talk, it's like that this is how you're supposed to live. This is real life. And they're all happy.

• 1:43:21Speaker 03

  There's a guy, I'm gonna get his name wrong. It's like Primager, something like that. And he, in the sixties.

• 1:43:33Joe Rogan?

  Dick Premakin.

• 1:43:34Speaker 03

  Premakin, that's it.

• 1:43:34Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah, the guy who lived in Alaska.

• 1:43:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:43:37Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:37Speaker 03

  Went up, said bucket.

• 1:43:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:40Speaker 03

  Went up into the, way into the wild and built by hand a cabin and lived there and documented it. Brought a little super eight camera, whatever, filmed the whole thing.

• 1:43:51Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:51Speaker 03

  And filmed himself, I mean, he, he lived for thirty-five years. He was eighty something years old when he finally was too old to, to get through another winter when he came down. And he just built this cabin and just lived, hunted, fished, grew potatoes, had to build.

• 1:44:08Joe Rogan?

  There he is. Brennikee, Pronikee, that's how you say his name. Uh, P R O E N N K E.

• 1:44:15Speaker 03

  If you haven't watched that documentary, it is fascinating.

• 1:44:17Joe Rogan?

  It's amazing. Yeah. Look at the different, what is it?

• 1:44:20Speaker 03

  I don't know.

• 1:44:21Joe Rogan?

  Oh, they, oh, this is they've. Oh, but why they show this 2023?

• 1:44:28Joe Rogan?

  Um, this guy, when he documented all of it, you know, it's so attractive. There's something about the way he's living, and he's by himself, which is also wild. Like, how do you not get lonely?

• 1:44:40Speaker 03

  No, there's that.

• 1:44:42Joe Rogan?

  I mean, I'd lose my fucking marbles. I need people.

• 1:44:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:44:44Joe Rogan?

  I need to talk to somebody. I don't think I'd be liking that.

• 1:44:48Speaker 03

  No, no, no.

• 1:44:48Joe Rogan?

  But it's so attractive.

• 1:44:50Speaker 03

  But the, but the notion of that kind of self reliance.

• 1:44:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. No, there's something about it that's like deeply ingrained in our DNA. It's not just that. It's like, uh, it's a, uh, healthy interaction with the, the wild world.

• 1:45:05Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:45:07Joe Rogan?

  There he is. Look at that guy. Made all that shit himself. That's what's crazy.

• 1:45:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:45:13Joe Rogan?

  The whole, the whole, I mean, he made his own tools. He made, it was, it's really wild. I think he was a, wasn't he a lumberman or something like that?

• 1:45:21Speaker 03

  I can't remember if he was.

• 1:45:22Joe Rogan?

  Look at fucking pretty that is. My God. This is right in front of his house. You just build a house out there. Alaska's amazing, man. I mean, the winters can suck a dick, but the, just the actual being there in the place. And the people are, they're clearly like extraordinary people. Like, when you go, just even hanging out in a bar in Anchorage, like, you guys are different. They're like more reliable. You know?

• 1:45:52Speaker 03

  No matter where.

• 1:45:53Joe Rogan?

  They're sturdier people.

• 1:45:54Speaker 03

  No matter where you live in Alaska, you're gonna have to be tough.

• 1:45:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. You have to be. And they were laughing about some guy who got stomped to death by a moose because he was throwing snowballs out at in town, like, okay, like, that's something you guys have to think about. You, you might get stomped to death in front of the ATM machine.

• 1:46:09Speaker 03

  Or maybe, maybe don't throw a fucking snowball at a thousand pound animal.

• 1:46:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, you can catch a cow with their calves and she'll stomp you in her what. So, it's a book. Uh, Preneke says he turned his back on a tedious, on tedious fifty hour work weeks and moved to Alaska to do a thing to completion. He built the cabin when he was fifty-one and lived there for more than thirty years. Wow. Wow. Where is that area? The Twin Lakes and Lake Clark National Park?

• 1:46:41Speaker 03

  I don't know.

• 1:46:44Joe Rogan?

  There's another guy that lives up there, that lives, uh, near the Arctic Circle. Um, Vice Guide to Travel did a piece on him years ago. It's same kinda deal. He lives in a cabin and, uh, he's been up in that cabin since the nineteen seventies. He didn't, he never saw nine eleven. He saw a photograph of it years later. He's just been up there in the woods. All he does is, he hunts caribou and he has them all like hanging up, like frozen, cause it's frozen outside. Like that's as outside as his cooler. And while they're there, a grizzly tries to steal his stash and he has to shoot the grizzly. It's like, it's crazy.

• 1:47:21Speaker 03

  Really? What's that called?

• 1:47:22Joe Rogan?

  It's called, uh, Vice Guide to Travel and it's Heinmo's Arctic Adventure is the video series. And what's interesting, this is like the early days of Vice when Vice was really cool. And they get this fucking nerd with glasses, probably from like Williamsburg, who flies out to Alaska to hang out with this guy. And, uh, the guy, they're kinda like, these journalists were like hardcore. These young kids were, they knew they were doing something kinda crazy. And they would go to war zones, like that's how Tim Poole started out. These guys would go to the fucking war zones and get shot at. They had bulletproof vests on and shit and they'd be doing investigate, like real investigative reporting.

• 1:48:01Joe Rogan?

  And so this guy did, just really went up there and hung out with this dude in Alaska for like a week. And was talking to him, was like, what's, what's so great about this? And he's a very intelligent guy. He's not a, uh, the guy who's, this, this guy Heinmo. See if you can find that. Did you find it?

• 1:48:19Speaker 05

  I was looking around, there's, I mean, they're still posting stuff. They've, there's the last Alaskan, excuse me, the last Alaskans.

• 1:48:26Joe Rogan?

  Oh, he's still posting stuff?

• 1:48:27Speaker 05

  They have a YouTube channel.

• 1:48:28Joe Rogan?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:48:29Speaker 05

  Heinmo and Edna.

• 1:48:30Joe Rogan?

  Oh, oh wow, he looks older now.

• 1:48:33Speaker 05

  They're just talking about podcasts here a second ago.

• 1:48:35Joe Rogan?

  Oh, interesting. They're talking about podcasts?

• 1:48:39Speaker 05

  Our podcast?

• 1:48:39Joe Rogan?

  Oh, because we talked about them?

• 1:48:41Speaker 05

  I don't know, I mean, just as I saw, as you were, your picture popped up.

• 1:48:44Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's it. That's me talking about them, yeah. See if you could find the Vice guy to travel, because that's where I found out about him. So this guy's, he's like, one of the last people that's allowed to live up there. He has like, a notice posted on his, um, his cabin. Because he's grandfathered in. I don't think you can build a cabin up there anymore.

• 1:49:08Joe Rogan?

  That's not, this is afterwards.

• 1:49:11Speaker 05

  Fifteen years ago?

• 1:49:12Joe Rogan?

  Eh, might be it. But I think it's called Heimmo's Arctic Adventure.

• 1:49:19Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, Heimmo, Heimmo Corth, Heimmo's Arctic Refuge? That's the article.

• 1:49:25Speaker 05

  Yeah, I mean, the Vice website isn't really one of the most well-kept things on the internet these days.

• 1:49:37Joe Rogan?

  Put in Arctic Adventure.

• 1:49:39Speaker 05

  I'm guessing that the article was the first thing, and then they went and followed up to make a video, and that's what this is.

• 1:49:44Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I don't know, yeah, maybe that's it.

• 1:49:46Speaker 05

  Yeah, see, it says it presents Heimmo's Arctic Refuge.

• 1:49:49Joe Rogan?

  Right, that's probably it.

• 1:49:51Speaker 05

  They could've just changed the name on YouTube also.

• 1:49:52Joe Rogan?

  I think they did, or maybe I remember it wrong. Either way, this guy's premise is that this is really how you should live. This is how people, yeah, that's the guy. So you see this looking nerdy cat, he's hanging out. He looks so out of place. Yep, this is it. And he's got this, uh, caribou that he shot, and they're hanging frozen, and he just saws off a piece, and throws the frozen steaks onto the grill, cooks it over wood, and this is how this guy lives, and that's all he eats. He's just eating caribou and salmon, and he lives up there.

• 1:50:32Joe Rogan?

  All year round, man. And it's, uh, I mean, he's just very happy. And that this is the weird part about it is how happy people who live like this are. Cause I think that's in our brain. That's how we're designed to exist with nature. We're designed to be hunter gatherers. You know, we still have the same DNA as people that lived tens of thousands of years ago.

• 1:50:57Speaker 03

  And, you know, cities started, what, maybe 10,000 years ago in some form, right?

• 1:51:03Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, depending on who you ask, you know? I think we're a little wrong with that, too. I think they're starting to change their perspective of when actual civilization emerged. Because of stuff like, um, you go Beckley-Tappy in Turkey, they found these immense structures that are 11,800 years old that were buried. That this guy who was like, I think it was a sheep herder in the 90s found it.

• 1:51:27Speaker 03

  Really?

• 1:51:27Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he found like a stone that was like sticking out of the ground weird and he kicked it with his boots, like knocking some dirt off. And then he brought in some archaeologists and then they discovered this massive complex, these like huge circles of giant stone columns with 3D animals carved in them. And they carbon dated the ground and it was intentionally covered up somewhere around 11,000 plus years ago. So they're like, yeah, so like, what the fuck is this? Like, they didn't even know like what the civilization was, like what, why did they build this? What's the purpose of it? There's lots, a lot of people that debate whether or not what's depicted on it is a calendar, is it a marking of an event? Does it show the flood? Like, what, what is this? It's weird stuff, man, like really weird stuff.

• 1:52:12Joe Rogan?

  And I think there's more of that than you'd like to, that makes people comfortable. And archaeologists are very hesitant to accept it.

• 1:52:18Speaker 03

  Well, that whole, that whole deal, right? Like your relevance being upon, you discovered this thing.

• 1:52:24Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:52:25Speaker 03

  You know, when they, when they found the Clovis point.

• 1:52:28Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:52:29Speaker 03

  So then we're dating everything off of that and anyone finding anything else is gonna render that guy's discovery less important.

• 1:52:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:52:37Speaker 03

  And, you know, there was, at one point, we thought there was this logical evolution of man from Homo erectus into Homo sapiens. And now we know that there were at least four, maybe five species of humanoid living at the same time. At least five.

• 1:52:54Joe Rogan?

  Not only that, it's like really difficult to make a fossil. Most people are gonna die and their bones are gonna be gone within a hundred years.

• 1:53:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's just what what we've been able to find and we're basing an entire science upon

• 1:53:07Speaker 03

  incredibly incomplete discoveries.

• 1:53:09Joe Rogan?

  Well, we're basing entire science on a very limited number that can even possibly exist. Like, I think if you take into account how many dinosaur bones they've found and then how many dinosaurs existed? And for how many hundreds of millions of years dinosaurs existed? And you realize like, oh, like most shit doesn't make a fossil. So we don't even know how many different dinosaurs that we've, I mean, they just discovered a new one recently. There's, we don't even know how many existed that we never found fossilized.

• 1:53:41Speaker 03

  Yeah, if you, if they didn't run through some lava pit or tar pit or something, how would you know?

• 1:53:45Joe Rogan?

  And every so often, some new form of ancient human pops up and we're like, oh, well, what's this one? What the fuck is this one? There's weird ones. They're, they're all over the place. There's a fucking ton of them. The Denisovans, there's the, the one in, I believe it was in China, the big-headed people, that they're quite a bit larger.

• 1:54:05Speaker 05

  These are in Texas.

• 1:54:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's Glen.

• 1:54:07Joe Rogan?

  Dinosaur Valley State Park. Wow.

• 1:54:09Speaker 03

  That's Glen Rose, Texas.

• 1:54:10Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy. How crazy is that? Look at those footprints. That's so nuts. That is so nuts. A dinosaur left those. How long ago? Hundred and thirteen million year old dinosaur tracks. What the fuck, man?

• 1:54:32Joe Rogan?

  And, you know, we're just lucky.

• 1:54:33Speaker 03

  So what is he, what, that thing and how much did it fucking weigh to imprint into that? Which is now granite, right? But at the time, it's probably some mixture of mud and ash from a volcano that came together.

• 1:54:45Joe Rogan?

  Right, probably.

• 1:54:46Speaker 03

  Some version of that.

• 1:54:47Joe Rogan?

  Right. I wonder what the animal was. Do they know which dinosaur it was?

• 1:54:51Speaker 05

  Picture of one here. I don't know if it's, I'll just guess that's the one they assumed was there.

• 1:54:56Joe Rogan?

  God, those footprints are so dope.

• 1:55:00Joe Rogan?

  That's so wild. Wonder who the first guy who found that was?

• 1:55:04Speaker 05

  Says it was discovered after a drought, so it would have been.

• 1:55:07Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's even cooler. So it was underneath the water the whole time, and then they're like, oh, the river dried up completely in most locations. Looking for more tracks to be uncovered here in the park. Wow, that's sick. That's the animal?

• 1:55:23Speaker 05

  Believe to be, I don't know, yeah, they wouldn't know for sure.

• 1:55:26Joe Rogan?

  Belonged to two types of dinos, including Acrocanth- Anthosaurus.

• 1:55:33Speaker 05

  Yeah, I think, I don't think they've found any fossils or anything to be

• 1:55:38Speaker 05

  for the record.

• 1:55:39Joe Rogan?

  That's even crazier, right? All you find is the feet. Think about how many died there. Think about how many just got eaten by other animals and shit out and I mean, most stuff that lives, I mean, you know as well as anybody. You very rarely find skeletons in the woods.

• 1:55:57Speaker 03

  No, the mice are gonna eat them.

• 1:55:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, something's gonna eat most of what you find in the woods. Within a couple of years, everything's gone, but like when was the last time, like if you're a hunter, good luck finding a dead mountain lion. They must die, they must die. I don't know anybody who's found a dead one.

• 1:56:14Speaker 03

  I've never found one. I've never seen one.

• 1:56:15Joe Rogan?

  There's thousands of them. They die. Where are they? Fucking nature takes care of everything, and that's what would happen to most fossils.

• 1:56:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:56:23Joe Rogan?

  That's why most fossils don't happen. I mean, when people die, they don't get fossilized.

• 1:56:27Speaker 05

  This picture says a 1908, a local schoolboy found some of these.

• 1:56:31Joe Rogan?

  Wow, look at the size of those next to that dude. That's crazy.

• 1:56:34Speaker 05

  Imagine you ran home and tried to tell your parents. They wouldn't even know what dinosaurs really were, I bet, back then. How would they have known?

• 1:56:41Joe Rogan?

  Well, there's a lot of people today that don't even think dinosaurs are real, which is hilarious. There's so many, so many knuckleheads online. But, I mean, we don't, we have a very limited amount of information that we're basing our, the entire history of Earth on planet.

• 1:56:56Speaker 05

  What do you describe that as in 1910? A three-toed giant?

• 1:57:04Speaker 05

  That lizard, I don't even know.

• 1:57:05Joe Rogan?

  I know, how would you even be sure that that was a footprint?

• 1:57:08Speaker 05

  Come look at this, then you gotta go tell everybody else in the town to come follow you out there to find it.

• 1:57:12Joe Rogan?

  Right, in 1910, did they even have drawings of dinosaurs?

• 1:57:16Speaker 03

  Well, I wouldn't think they would have found some of the bones.

• 1:57:19Joe Rogan?

  I'm sure. I think we figured that out, right? I think we talked about that. Didn't they first start finding them in the 1800s? Isn't that what it was?

• 1:57:28Joe Rogan?

  But yeah, it's not. I mean, if you think about how many different things died and just were absorbed by the earth. Just gets eaten, shit out, swallowed up, just destroyed by time and erosion and never became fossils. We're basing the entire history of the planet on a limited amount of information. And that information, it never gets younger. It always gets older. The more stuff they found. Like, they found a modern version of human beings that pushes the timeline of humans back another three or 400,000 years. And that keeps happening.

• 1:58:02Speaker 03

  Well, they, they, they thought that people crossed the Bering Land Bridge 12,000, 14,000 years ago. And now they've pushed that back 10,000 years.

• 1:58:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they found the, those footprints in White Sands, New Mexico, and those are 22,000 years old.

• 1:58:16Speaker 05

  It took a giant flood to come wash away layers of sediment.

• 1:58:20Joe Rogan?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:58:23Speaker 05

  That's why it's so muddy around it, I guess.

• 1:58:25Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:58:26Speaker 05

  And then they started digging.

• 1:58:27Joe Rogan?

  That's fucking cool. That is so cool.

• 1:58:33Joe Rogan?

  And this is in 1952 they did that?

• 1:58:35Speaker 05

  No, no, no, 1908.

• 1:58:36Joe Rogan?

  1908?

• 1:58:37Speaker 05

  The pictures are from 1952 or something like that. They must have just kept, maybe it flooded again 50 years later.

• 1:58:42Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 1:58:43Speaker 05

  Floods do happen here fast.

• 1:58:44Joe Rogan?

  When did they first figure out dinosaurs? Like, what was the first year a dinosaur bone was discovered?

• 1:58:53Joe Rogan?

  On your ranch, do you find like a lot of like arrowheads and like Native American stuff?

• 1:58:59Speaker 03

  The one I grew up on, everywhere.

• 1:59:01Joe Rogan?

  Yeah?

• 1:59:02Speaker 03

  Every time it had rained. You'd find these points.

• 1:59:05Joe Rogan?

  Dutch it enthralls me. It's so fascinating. You pick up some arrow. I found one in Nevada while I was on a mule deer hunt. I was in the high desert. We found this little tiny thing. I looked down. I go, oh, my God, it's a fucking arrowhead. And you just think some dude, who knows how many hundreds of years ago shot that at a deer.

• 1:59:25Speaker 03

  Thousands.

• 1:59:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:59:27Speaker 03

  We found a bunch and my mother took them to Fort Worth to the museum and they dated them. And some of them, and they could look at them and they'd know various styles, right? And they go, oh, this was made by, this is twenty-two hundred years old. This is four thousand years old. This is when they started doing this.

• 1:59:43Joe Rogan?

  We have one here. I got one here somewhere. It's a big one, too.

• 1:59:48Speaker 05

  Sixteen seventy-seven was when the first scientifically recorded dinosaur bone was described. Although it says they've been digging, people have been digging them up for thousands of years, but.

• 1:59:58Joe Rogan?

  They didn't know what the fuck it was?

• 1:59:59Speaker 05

  This one, he says, he even thought it belonged to a giant human.

• 2:00:03Speaker 05

  And then.

• 2:00:04Joe Rogan?

  This is one from here.

• 2:00:04Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. Look at that.

• 2:00:07Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, a friend of mine got that off of his ranch. Remy Warren told me that's probably one they used for fishing because it was so big.

• 2:00:15Speaker 03

  Interesting.

• 2:00:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I thought so, too. I was like, that's interesting. Because I guess when you're dealing with old bows that didn't have a whole lot of power, you really wouldn't want a big, wide cut because you wouldn't get enough penetration to get through the rib cage. Unless you're really close.

• 2:00:29Speaker 03

  This would be more on a spear?

• 2:00:31Joe Rogan?

  No, it would be on an arrow. It would just be something that you shot at a fish because it's easier to penetrate than like, say, a buffalo.

• 2:00:38Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:00:38Joe Rogan?

  Where they would use a smaller head. They're just trying to get penetration.

• 2:00:43Speaker 03

  That's fascinating.

• 2:00:44Joe Rogan?

  It's just an amazing thing. You're finding just this piece of ancient history where people had no internet, no books, no nothing. Just flint napping and using tendons and shit. Yeah. And then trying to practice with those bows. Figure out how to do it while you're on horseback, too.

• 2:01:09Joe Rogan?

  It's crazy. So where you grew up, the, on the ranch you grew up, you'd find them all the time?

• 2:01:14Speaker 03

  All the time.

• 2:01:15Joe Rogan?

  What was the oldest shit you found?

• 2:01:17Speaker 03

  Ah, man, I, I, I can't remember, but, but I remember it being thousands of years old, a few thousand years old. But we had, we had a, like, my mother had this wicker basket that was like this big and, and it was full.

• 2:01:35Joe Rogan?

  Of arrowheads?

• 2:01:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:01:36Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:01:37Speaker 03

  You'd find them, just toss them in there.

• 2:01:39Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy.

• 2:01:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:01:40Joe Rogan?

  Just makes you think, like, how long did people live on that land? How many hundreds, thousands of years did people live on that land?

• 2:01:50Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah. And, and, or pass through, or have battles, or who fucking knows?

• 2:01:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:01:57Speaker 03

  Or, or, or when you find them, like, we found them, I mean, every single time it rained, you, there was this stock tank behind our house and you, maybe it's half mile up to the stock tank. We'd walk that road and you, you could find four or five. So was that a trading depot? Was that some place where people went to trade? And then I always think, like, how do you lose that many?

• 2:02:22Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:02:22Speaker 03

  As hard as they must be to make.

• 2:02:24Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:02:25Speaker 03

  You'd think, once you've shot that arrow, you're gonna go look for the arrow.

• 2:02:27Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:02:27Speaker 03

  Cause you spent hours making this.

• 2:02:30Joe Rogan?

  They must have shot so many for so long. They mu, I mean, they're probably shooting them every day. They probably had somebody back at camp making them every day.

• 2:02:39Speaker 03

  Probably some guy, that's his skill.

• 2:02:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:02:42Speaker 03

  Maybe, maybe when people got older, they couldn't, couldn't hunt, couldn't run.

• 2:02:46Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:02:46Speaker 03

  You know?

• 2:02:47Joe Rogan?

  Maybe.

• 2:02:47Speaker 03

  They sat back and.

• 2:02:48Joe Rogan?

  Right. Yeah, and that guy makes the arrows, and maybe somebody else makes the bows, and this guy's going out and shooting the deer and bringing them back. When you're doing a show like 1823, how much research did you have to do to try to get that right? Cause that was, in my opinion, one of the best theatrical things that, that I ever watched, movie or television show, that I, I feel like nailed what it must have been like to try to travel across the country, to be a civilized person living in the city, and try to make your way across the country and just experience the wild shit those people saw.

• 2:03:26Speaker 03

  Well, there's a few things, so a lot of research, but interestingly, I had.

• 2:03:32Speaker 03

  Uh, my family had come, one side of my family had come from Kentucky to Texas in the eighteen forties. And whatever great, great grandmother journaled.

• 2:03:43Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:03:44Speaker 03

  So I had the journal.

• 2:03:46Joe Rogan?

  Holy shit.

• 2:03:47Speaker 03

  And, uh, and then I started finding other journals. There wasn't, you know, some were published. And, and reading about just how fucking dangerous it was. If you think about it, um, rivers were the most terrifying thing, crossing rivers. Cause no one swam, no one could swim.

• 2:04:09Speaker 03

  And most of the, most of the people who came into either the port of New Orleans or Galveston, they were European. They were German, a lot of Germans. There were a lot of, um, Central Europeans that came, uh, and, and they were promised free land, right? There would be travel agencies that they would arrange the entire trip with. Before they've even left Germany or Croatia or wherever they were. And, uh, and so by the time that they landed in Galveston, they would meet up with their group. And the group would, you know, they'd have chipped in all this amount of money and they've got guides.

• 2:04:51Speaker 03

  And they would have already arranged for mules or horses and, and wagons. And, uh, and off they go.

• 2:04:57Joe Rogan?

  And they had no idea.

• 2:04:59Speaker 03

  No, and they, a lot of them had never fucking ridden a horse in their life. Much less fired a gun, much less, you know, they're in a completely foreign area. Like they don't, and they landed in Texas, most of them heading to Oregon.

• 2:05:15Speaker 03

  Because that area was the most similar to where they were from in Central Europe. And then, you know, for whatever reason, they didn't, some didn't get that far. Some maybe never got past Waco or Fort Worth or wherever.

• 2:05:28Speaker 03

  And then off they went. And, and the dangers were from obviously rivers and sun exposure, disease.

• 2:05:39Speaker 03

  Obviously, there were issues with bandits and the Native American tribes, depending on the time of year, the era, right? By the eighties, that was largely not an issue, eighteen eighties. But bandits sure shit were a real issue. Cause there's no rule of law.

• 2:05:56Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:05:57Speaker 03

  Right? And we can look at, there's plenty of bad people doing awful shit today, and we got all sorts of laws. Now imagine if those people had the wherewithal to go to a place to where there's no laws.

• 2:06:08Joe Rogan?

  No law and no enforcement, no help, no nothing. You're on your own.

• 2:06:13Speaker 03

  You were on your fucking own.

• 2:06:14Joe Rogan?

  And there was a bunch of people that had been living like that for decades, just fucking people up.

• 2:06:20Speaker 03

  Waiting for you.

• 2:06:20Joe Rogan?

  Just waiting for you, waiting for you, here they come, let's get them.

• 2:06:24Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 2:06:24Joe Rogan?

  And that was what their thing was.

• 2:06:26Speaker 03

  Yeah. No, so river crossings were incredibly dangerous. And then trying to, if you didn't have an experienced guide, you're fucked, truly fucked. Cause you could, you picked the wrong way and run out of water. Go wander around in the circle, you get up there on the Great Plains to where it's flat and there's, and you don't know how to read the sun. You don't know where you're going.

• 2:06:51Speaker 03

  People go out there and make giant circles.

• 2:06:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. I was reading something about that the other day, that people tend to, for whatever reason, always walk in a counterclockwise direction when they get lost. And that even if they're left footed or right handed or left handed, it doesn't seem to matter. Humans, when they walk, if they get lost, like in the woods, they walk in circles and they almost always walk in a counterclockwise direction. And so this article was explaining that if you find yourself lost and you think you're running into the same places, most likely you should veer towards the right. Because you're you're most likely looping towards the left.

• 2:07:36Joe Rogan?

  For whatever reason, people tend to do that. Wonder if there's like a scientific explanation. See if there's, put that in perplexity, see why people move in a counterclockwise.

• 2:07:45Speaker 05

  It didn't come up.

• 2:07:46Joe Rogan?

  Perplexity doesn't know shit, doesn't have any crap woodsmanship.

• 2:07:50Speaker 03

  I never understood getting lost in the wilderness. I didn't understand it.

• 2:07:53Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 2:07:54Speaker 03

  Can understand not knowing where you are. But, you know, but I never understood getting lost.

• 2:07:59Joe Rogan?

  Do you, well, you must have learned how to use a compass early.

• 2:08:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, or the sun.

• 2:08:04Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:08:05Speaker 03

  Right? If the sun comes up in the morning and you're facing it.

• 2:08:08Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:08:08Speaker 03

  Then behind you is west, to your left is north, to your right is south.

• 2:08:11Joe Rogan?

  Some people have zero experience in the woods, though. People tend to loop often counterclockwise when lost because small errors in our internal sense of straight ahead accumulate. And humans also have a subtle left turn counterclockwise bias, whose exact cause is still unclear. Isn't that weird?

• 2:08:29Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 2:08:30Joe Rogan?

  That's so weird. In lab and field experiments, blindfolded people tend to walk straight without landmarks, almost always end up curving into large loops instead of moving in a straight line. People told, rather, to walk straight without landmarks.

• 2:08:43Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 2:08:44Joe Rogan?

  Wow. This happens because without internal clues, or external clues like the sun, distant objects, or a visible path, small random errors in balance and body feedback build up until the path bends enough to close into a circle. Wow. That's gotta be so disheartening. You've been walking for days, and then you pass the same dead tree, and you're like, oh, my god. We walked in a fucking circle. Pedestrians everywhere exhibit a counterclockwise bias, wired to walk counterclockwise. During COVID, scientists studying social distancing notice that people seem to prefer moving counterclockwise. That's so weird.

• 2:09:24Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 2:09:26Joe Rogan?

  Tendency is fundamentally individual rather than a collective. What does that mean?

• 2:09:32Joe Rogan?

  Um, so every individual does it, I guess, rather than a group of people just following the leader. Pretty wild.

• 2:09:40Joe Rogan?

  So when people get lost, some, but some, some people have just zero experience being in the woods at all. And they just don't know where to go. They're, where are we? And they just, they just fucking freak out. And then they panic because they think, what's out there? Oh, my God, I want to die.

• 2:09:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:09:57Joe Rogan?

  And you realize that once you're out there, that nature doesn't give a fuck if you make it.

• 2:10:02Speaker 03

  No, doesn't care.

• 2:10:04Joe Rogan?

  At all.

• 2:10:05Speaker 03

  No.

• 2:10:05Joe Rogan?

  As it's heartless, completely oblivious to your desire to stay alive. It's not interested in what you want to do at all.

• 2:10:15Speaker 03

  Nope. Nope, not at all. It's ambivalent.

• 2:10:18Joe Rogan?

  But that's also part of the beauty of it, right?

• 2:10:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:10:21Joe Rogan?

  When you're out there. Especially if you take yourself seriously.

• 2:10:25Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:10:25Joe Rogan?

  You're out there, you're like, oh, I ain't shit.

• 2:10:29Speaker 03

  It'll, it'll test you.

• 2:10:31Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. When you're writing a, a, a thing like eighteen twenty-three, like you're doing all this research and you've read the, the diaries from your, you said your great grandmother?

• 2:10:40Speaker 03

  Like great, great.

• 2:10:42Joe Rogan?

  Great grandmother? Did you, uh, did you ever think like putting some of those letters online so other people can read them?

• 2:10:49Speaker 03

  No. There's plenty of, there's, there's any number of published books of very similar journals.

• 2:10:56Joe Rogan?

  I know, but it'd be kind of dope for people to read about your great, great grandmother.

• 2:11:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, nothing happened, right? Like it sucked, it was cold. We had fricking whatever weird shit they had for dinner that night and, you know, so and so was rude and, you know, it was this and we, you know, we stopped in this beautiful valley and it was hard to get across the river and I was scared and, you know, but no attacks, no, it was pretty uneventful.

• 2:11:20Joe Rogan?

  They got lucky.

• 2:11:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:11:22Joe Rogan?

  It's just, it's interesting just as a window into time.

• 2:11:24Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 2:11:25Joe Rogan?

  You know?

• 2:11:26Speaker 03

  Well, what's interesting really is how well-written the journal was.

• 2:11:30Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 2:11:30Speaker 03

  Right? Cause everyone.

• 2:11:32Joe Rogan?

  Was very educated.

• 2:11:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:11:33Joe Rogan?

  Was better educated.

• 2:11:35Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 2:11:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Yeah, and. Yeah, that's, that's weird, right? When you read like Civil War letters and you're like, why are these guys so fucking smart?

• 2:11:45Speaker 03

  I have letters from my grandfather who died in World War Two, love letters from him to his, to my grandmother.

• 2:11:54Speaker 03

  Years of them, because you know, he enlisted in nineteen forty one and and then went off and became a, they flew a, I guess it was the B nineteen, a bomber.

• 2:12:07Speaker 03

  And, yeah, and wrote all these letters to her.

• 2:12:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, and I have all those and they're just magnificent. Just the way that people would

• 2:12:18Speaker 03

  just be so eloquent in a letter to, you know, your wife.

• 2:12:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, my beloved, they would write things like that.

• 2:12:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:12:27Joe Rogan?

  It is weird, like the deterioration of our ability to express ourselves. The common person's ability to express themselves. Like you wouldn't have expected that back then, I bet. If you could tell people about the future, oh, you're gonna have the answer to any question on your phone. You have a small device in your pocket, it's also acts as a flashlight. You're gonna be able to pick that thing up and ask it anything you want and instantaneously it's gonna give you a result. But, oh, people, this must be brilliant. No, no, they're half retarded.

• 2:12:57Speaker 03

  Because they didn't learn anything.

• 2:12:59Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:12:59Speaker 03

  Right? You can ask a machine, the machine's done all the learning. You just get an answer that you didn't earn, right?

• 2:13:06Joe Rogan?

  That's the word.

• 2:13:07Speaker 03

  Earn.

• 2:13:08Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Yeah, just like equity. The problem with equity is you didn't earn it.

• 2:13:13Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:13:14Joe Rogan?

  The problem with having the same results as everybody else when you don't put the same effort. People in the eighteen hundreds often spent blocks of time, typically one to three hours at a stretch, on letter writing. And heavy correspondence could easily spend several hours most days. Wow. Most people treated correspondence as a regular daily or weekly task. Similar to a modern email block, excepting that it would be, take a significant chunk of their time. Wow.

• 2:13:45Joe Rogan?

  I mean, how important was the fucking mailman back then?

• 2:13:49Speaker 03

  Everything.

• 2:13:50Joe Rogan?

  The guy was everything.

• 2:13:51Speaker 03

  Everything.

• 2:13:52Joe Rogan?

  Some dude on a horse with a fucking bag of letters.

• 2:13:57Joe Rogan?

  For a quarter? I mean, how much did they charge? A quarter was a lot of money back then. Probably was less than that.

• 2:14:03Speaker 03

  Probably half a penny or something if they had a... Well, they did have a half penny.

• 2:14:07Joe Rogan?

  How much do you enjoy writing that kind of a show versus writing a show like Lioness or like Landman? Like, what is your... Do you have a favorite? Or do you like all of them?

• 2:14:17Speaker 03

  No, I can't say I have a favorite necessarily. You know, the fun thing about Lioness, which is sort of... I can't say it's ripped from the headlines, because I don't... I've tried to be... I've tried to guess what's gonna happen politically and then fictionalize that. And the fact that I've managed to be right is pretty fucking wild. I thought surely in season two, when I... When I said that the cartels had been listed as terrorist organizations, I'm like, this could be my 18-month cancel vacation coming. And then it fucking happened.

• 2:15:01Speaker 03

  And then it came out, and you know, the show came out within weeks of that, and I looked really...

• 2:15:06Joe Rogan?

  Like a soothsayer.

• 2:15:09Speaker 03

  So, it's a lot of fun, because it's so political, and it's not... It doesn't choose a political side. It just looks at the tradecraft of espionage and how it's... It intermingles with our military, and it's just fascinating shit to me. Just fascinating.

• 2:15:27Joe Rogan?

  This episode is brought to you by NOCO. You're miles from home, you turn the key, nothing. Dead battery. Normally, that means finding another car, someone willing to give you a jump, and dealing with old jumper cables. But what if you didn't need any of that? Keep a NOCO portable jump starter in your glove box, and jump-start your car yourself. No cables, no second vehicle, no waiting for help. It also works as a power bank and has a built-in LED flashlight. NOCO, the end of jumper cables. Use code ROGEN10 for 10% off. Select jump starters at NO.co.

• 2:16:06Joe Rogan?

  This episode is brought to you by Tacovas. All right, seriously. If you're looking for new boots or shoes this summer, you gotta check out Tacovas. These guys make some super durable and handmade boots. Besides being incredibly comfortable right out of the box, they've also got some great slip-ons, perfect for casual summer Fridays. Their stuff is built to last and made for long, hot months ahead. And they look great with everything, from jeans to khakis to linen suits. Dress them up or down. Plus, they've got tons of options from classic leathers to exotic hides, whatever lights your fire. So whether it's your first pair or your fifteenth, you gotta check out Tacovas

• 2:16:50Joe Rogan?

  in-store or online at tacovas.com. That's T-E-C-O-V-A-S dot com. And right now, get 10% off at tacovas.com/rogan when you sign up for email and texts. There's so many different things that you have to be aware of to write the shit that you write. You know, like, um, is the Harrison Ford one 1923? That one is fascinating too, because you got the guy who goes off to Africa and, you know, and he comes back and you got all these people that are trying to steal land. So it's not totally lawless, but it's on the border of lawlessness.

• 2:17:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, you're, you're, you're watching, you know, Montana in the 20s was fascinating. It was a fascinating place because you've got the 20th century, the Industrial Revolution in full swing. And you have washing machines and refrigerators and telephones and electricity. And then you still, you're still traveling by horseback.

• 2:17:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:17:46Speaker 03

  So it, it, very, very interesting. And so, and so that, that's a really fun thing to explore.

• 2:17:53Joe Rogan?

  That one dude who was the evil rich guy on that show?

• 2:17:56Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:17:56Joe Rogan?

  Fuck, he killed it.

• 2:17:57Speaker 03

  Tim Dalton.

• 2:17:58Joe Rogan?

  Oh, my God, that's right, Tim Dalton, who was Bond at one point in time, right? Crazy.

• 2:18:03Speaker 03

  Yes, yeah.

• 2:18:05Joe Rogan?

  My God, he played a good fucking creep.

• 2:18:07Speaker 03

  Twisted.

• 2:18:08Joe Rogan?

  So good.

• 2:18:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:18:10Joe Rogan?

  I forgot that it was Tim Dalton. That's how good it was.

• 2:18:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, my wife watched that and looked at me like. How'd you think that shit up dude? Like I got the side eye for it's a couple of scenes where she's like, bro, what are you thinking?

• 2:18:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, there's a couple of scenes I wondered myself. I was like, this is rough.

• 2:18:28Speaker 03

  Like, that's evil.

• 2:18:30Joe Rogan?

  Some of the S and M stuff is like, Jesus Christ.

• 2:18:32Speaker 03

  Twisted.

• 2:18:34Joe Rogan?

  But there's people like that in the world.

• 2:18:36Speaker 03

  A hundred percent.

• 2:18:37Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:18:38Speaker 03

  Yeah, I had to re- I'll tell you what, my, my computer, I just assume that the CIA and FBI have like a whole team. Because the shit I look up when I'm researching, like how to make a bomb, S and M practice.

• 2:18:53Speaker 03

  CIA hot regions in the Middle East and it's all at once, right?

• 2:18:57Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Yeah, there's no way they're not looking at your phone.

• 2:19:00Speaker 03

  They're looking at it going, uh, Taylor's writing something new. Look at this.

• 2:19:04Joe Rogan?

  I think anybody that has any influence, they probably look at your shit no matter what anyway. Which is also dark, like, we don't even know how much actual real spying on people is occurring. We're just guessing.

• 2:19:16Speaker 03

  No, we don't have any idea. Um, I think within the world of tradecraft, a tremendous amount.

• 2:19:22Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:19:23Speaker 03

  I think within the world of, I mean, within that world, I think.

• 2:19:27Joe Rogan?

  When you're writing that, how difficult is it to really keep your finger on the pulse of what's actually going on? With espionage and like what tools they actually have available? Like, are you making some up?

• 2:19:42Speaker 03

  No, I mean, most of the, I mean, I'm sure there is some extremely high tech tradecraft going on, right? For sure. Um, tracking devices and various things, satellite imagery, facial recognition, all of these things. But a lot of it's also very low tech by, by design, because it's harder to, it's harder to trace, right? And, and it's a lot of leverage and manipulation. Uh, you're either bribing someone with money or blackmailing them. And that's typically those, those are the two tools that, that are being used the most. In tradecraft and, and, and the spy game, right? That's really, you, you're, it's leverage, leveraging individuals and they're all doing it.

• 2:20:27Speaker 03

  Everybody, right? Every single, and then if you look at some of the, and again, I'm not getting on any

• 2:20:35Speaker 03

  completely apolitical, but from a tradecraft standpoint, what the Mossad was able to do with all those fucking cell phones and pagers and shit. Like you want to talk about play the long game. Like build this dummy company, sell all these, get all these devices to all of these people who are your enemy. And then start setting them off years later to detonate.

• 2:21:02Speaker 03

  Insanity.

• 2:21:03Joe Rogan?

  I mean, it's genius. It really is.

• 2:21:06Speaker 03

  Insanity.

• 2:21:06Joe Rogan?

  Not endorsing it, but just saying.

• 2:21:08Speaker 03

  No, but if you.

• 2:21:09Joe Rogan?

  The actual act of doing it.

• 2:21:10Speaker 03

  To look at the, the patience and the planning and the risks and, and that they were able to execute. That is, is shocking.

• 2:21:21Joe Rogan?

  When you saw that in the news, did you think if I wrote that, no one fucking buy it?

• 2:21:26Speaker 03

  Dude, I do that all the time with the news.

• 2:21:30Speaker 03

  The Maduro raid, if I had written that.

• 2:21:33Joe Rogan?

  Right, right.

• 2:21:33Speaker 03

  No one would, no.

• 2:21:35Joe Rogan?

  Right. They'd be like, that's too simple. Fuck out of here. That's not how it goes down.

• 2:21:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:21:39Joe Rogan?

  Even the Bin Laden raid, a helicopter crashed.

• 2:21:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:21:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:21:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, the fact that they were able to, and I know it wasn't as, as smooth as it was led on to be, but the fact that no one died, not an American. In, invading.

• 2:21:57Speaker 03

  The Venezuelan military base in the middle of Caracas. It's fucking insane.

• 2:22:01Joe Rogan?

  It seems like it went pretty smooth. Do you think it went less smooth than they're saying?

• 2:22:05Speaker 03

  I'm sure that there's elements of like, I'm sure, right? I don't know how, the one thing I've learned with all my research into the military is any of these operations, there's, there's, there's actually a line. In, in the upcoming line is where someone says, did it go smooth? And the guy says, well, as smooth as these things go. Right? Cause that's, cause just by the very nature, you start sticking a bunch of people in helicopters with guns and, you know, shit's gonna happen. All right? But the fact that there were no casualties, that no one was killed, no American was killed is incredible.

• 2:22:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it is incredible. It's pretty groundbreaking. Like this is like a new benchmark for what could be possible in terms of an invasion, at least of a third world country. It's just shocking the difference in the technology that the United States possessed versus them.

• 2:22:54Speaker 03

  Well.

• 2:22:54Joe Rogan?

  And whether or not they were even available, that's, no, new brother, that that stuff was available.

• 2:23:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, war is gonna change very, very quickly.

• 2:23:05Speaker 03

  With drones, AI and drones are gonna alter the landscape of war. Um, we're gonna, we're getting real close to some Terminator shit.

• 2:23:13Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:23:13Speaker 03

  And I'm not saying that like it's a good thing.

• 2:23:15Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 2:23:16Speaker 03

  Um, it, it's a, it's, it's a very, very, you talk about adolescence of, of us as a, as a species. We're seeing an adolescence in the teenage years of new, a new type of warfare. And, and when it grows up, it is gonna be a beast, a beast. And I, just think about it, you, you can, you know, now they've got drones that are the size of airplanes. They can have a payload that is.

• 2:23:46Joe Rogan?

  Devastating.

• 2:23:47Speaker 03

  Right, beyond just simply a predator drone that's got a couple of Hellfire missiles or whatever it may have. Um, and someone sitting in a Conex in the desert in Nevada can fly that thing halfway around the world. Or don't have anyone fly it, pre-program it, and the thing flies itself. And that's, you give, give the drone a mission and send the drone off to do the mission and it's fully automated.

• 2:24:13Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:24:14Speaker 03

  And that's some terrifying shit.

• 2:24:15Joe Rogan?

  I bet a lot, that's a lot of what this UAP shit is too. I bet it's experimenting with that type of technology with some sort of a novel propulsion system. Cause they were working on novel propulsion systems way back in the fifties and the sixties. They were working on anti-gravity in the sixties.

• 2:24:32Speaker 03

  I don't think, I don't think we're there.

• 2:24:34Joe Rogan?

  I don't know.

• 2:24:35Speaker 03

  I don't think we're there.

• 2:24:37Joe Rogan?

  I don't know. I don't know where we're at.

• 2:24:39Speaker 03

  I don't either.

• 2:24:40Joe Rogan?

  I don't know where we're at, but I'm not convinced, I'm not convinced that they haven't done something. In fact, Eric Weinstein makes some really interesting, um, connections between, there's a college in upstate New York, a university in upstate New York that has a very over-qualified physics department. And it's connected to a hedge fund that does bigger than Bernie Madoff type numbers. And he's like, the whole thing stinks to high heaven. And he goes, and I have a feeling that there's some sort of an undisclosed or a top secret above, you know, top secret access program that's going on.

• 2:25:15Speaker 03

  Oh, I can promise you, there's something.

• 2:25:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:25:18Speaker 03

  I've always thought a possible.

• 2:25:23Speaker 03

  Solution to petroleum as far as transportation goes, and I wonder why they've never tried it, is is using magnetic force. Right, if you have.

• 2:25:34Speaker 03

  You take a positive and negative charge.

• 2:25:37Speaker 03

  They're gonna come together, but if you take a positive and positive or negative and negative, they're gonna. I'm no fucking scientist, but you know, it's gonna repel, right? We've taken magnets and they push each other away. Well, how can, how can we not use that if you had?

• 2:25:51Speaker 03

  A vehicle. And the base of it is essentially. A positive charge or a negative, whatever it takes to make the magnets. Repel. And then your road base was essentially. The similarly charged metal, wouldn't that? Wouldn't that make it some?

• 2:26:08Joe Rogan?

  Wouldn't you have to redo all the roads? To make something like that?

• 2:26:11Speaker 03

  Or or put it in the road.

• 2:26:13Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, maybe. I mean, it certainly could be a potential. Source of. Transportation for the future. But I think the things that they're doing now probably relates to some sort of. Anti-gravity propulsion system. And then there was that, you know, I'm sure you're aware of this. All those scientists that went missing or want to be murdered.

• 2:26:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, dude.

• 2:26:35Joe Rogan?

  How fucking sketchy is that? Oh, it's a coincidence.

• 2:26:38Speaker 03

  From Los Alamos, all up there at the nuclear, yeah.

• 2:26:41Joe Rogan?

  Coincidence. Yeah.

• 2:26:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:26:45Joe Rogan?

  Who knows? I mean, who knows what the fuck those people are working on? And whether or not they made breakthroughs and they don't want other people to know, or whether or not they want to stop the breakthrough because. They're aligned with whatever the conventional propulsion systems are, and they don't want to lose money. This thing makes them obsolete, they can set back the science for a few years.

• 2:27:04Speaker 03

  Or is it tradecraft? Is it, is it Russian or Chinese or?

• 2:27:07Joe Rogan?

  Yep, could be that easy. Yeah, oh, sure. And that's the other thing that Weinstein was saying is like, it's really shocking how little these incredibly important scientists are protected.

• 2:27:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:27:19Joe Rogan?

  They're just fucking driving their Volvo to the university and working on top secret shit.

• 2:27:25Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:27:26Joe Rogan?

  And no one's making sure they don't get whacked by China.

• 2:27:28Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah, I'd be curious. And when they look into that, what was it, eleven of them? In a year?

• 2:27:36Joe Rogan?

  Fifteen over a course of a few years and some of them, people are not, they're going, ah, this could be coincidence. But there's a few of them where it's like, okay, these people, like this lady was specifically working on spacecraft metallurgy. This guy was specifically working on cold fusion. This guy was specifically, like, there's a bunch of them where you go, okay. Something's weird. Something's weird here.

• 2:28:00Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:28:00Joe Rogan?

  Enough to the fact that the government's looking into it, they're like, okay, there might be something here. The Justice Department's investigating it. They're trying to figure out what the connection is and what could have happened, but it's, you know, it's hard after the fact to try to figure out who did something, especially if somebody got hired from another country. Like, they're not gonna tell you, like, how are you gonna know? You didn't catch them? Did you not catch them when they killed the guy? Okay, well, you're probably fucked.

• 2:28:22Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's, it's.

• 2:28:29Joe Rogan?

  Fifteen.

• 2:28:30Speaker 03

  Yeah. And they're all from that area, aren't they Los Alamos? Around?

• 2:28:33Joe Rogan?

  I don't know. I'm not sure. I think that's part of the problem. It's like, there's, whenever you have a thing like this where people start looking for connections, they can make some connections that aren't necessarily valid. And so, like, let's say if there's fifteen, let's say ten of them, ten of them are bullshit.

• 2:28:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:28:49Joe Rogan?

  That means five aren't bullshit. If, you know, if that's true, that's a lot. It's five super fucking brilliant people that got whacked.

• 2:28:58Speaker 03

  Yeah. And it's, it's interesting that you'd have that many in this specific field in this period of time.

• 2:29:05Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:29:06Speaker 03

  And, and they're not, you know, I would think of a scientist as being pretty fucking healthy. Right? And.

• 2:29:13Joe Rogan?

  I don't know about that. I think a lot of them are just in their own head. You know, and they're probably not even paying attention to their body.

• 2:29:20Speaker 03

  Did they all disappear?

• 2:29:22Joe Rogan?

  Different people died from different things and one of, one of the weirder ones was this one lady. Who was, uh, I think she's the metallurgy lady. Where she was hiking with her friend. And, uh, they were just hiking together and the friend turned around to talk to her and she was gone. And she was just behind her like thirty seconds before they couldn't find her. They brought in cadaver dogs. They brought in search parties. Never found her. And I think they might have found her body recently. See, they, I think there was a report a few days ago that they might have found her body.

• 2:29:54Speaker 03

  I'd be, I'd be looking real close at the friend. Just, that's just me. That's just me.

• 2:29:59Joe Rogan?

  As a guy who writes scripts.

• 2:30:00Speaker 03

  Hey, so, so me and Joe went for a hike. I turned around and that fucker's gone.

• 2:30:04Joe Rogan?

  Hey, I don't know what happened.

• 2:30:05Speaker 03

  I looked everywhere for him.

• 2:30:06Joe Rogan?

  I mean, I swear, I had just talked to him thirty seconds ago.

• 2:30:09Speaker 03

  And he's, he's just not there.

• 2:30:10Joe Rogan?

  No sign of struggle. It's weird. Yeah.

• 2:30:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, like a husband and wife go hiking and the lady falls off the cliff. They're like, hey buddy.

• 2:30:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:30:21Joe Rogan?

  What the fuck happened? You guys arguing? Can I see your text messages?

• 2:30:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:30:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:30:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, or the one that just fell off the boat.

• 2:30:28Joe Rogan?

  Oh, what happened there?

• 2:30:29Speaker 03

  Uh, I, I, I, I don't want to say it wrong, but I think she, I think.

• 2:30:35Speaker 03

  It was out in the Bahamas. I, I read about it. She, she.

• 2:30:38Joe Rogan?

  Was it a cruise ship one?

• 2:30:40Speaker 03

  No, no, no. It was him and his lady and they're out on a sailboat or something and.

• 2:30:44Joe Rogan?

  Oh, she went, fell off the side.

• 2:30:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, he had to, yeah, something, something weird. They're not, they're not buying it.

• 2:30:50Joe Rogan?

  It goes all the way back to the Natalie Wood story. You ever look into that one?

• 2:30:53Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. That's right. Her and Walken and Robert Wagner on the.

• 2:30:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. And Robert Wagner and her had a big fight, apparently.

• 2:31:04Speaker 03

  And then she just.

• 2:31:05Joe Rogan?

  Whoops.

• 2:31:06Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 2:31:08Speaker 05

  Not the same person as the metallurgy.

• 2:31:10Joe Rogan?

  Uh, which one is this lady? But she was one of the scientists, correct?

• 2:31:14Speaker 05

  Uh.

• 2:31:16Joe Rogan?

  I believe she was one of the missing scientists.

• 2:31:18Speaker 05

  She was definitely missing for a year.

• 2:31:21Joe Rogan?

  Which one was she?

• 2:31:22Speaker 05

  I mean, I don't know. What is, I don't know which ones are.

• 2:31:25Joe Rogan?

  What was her specialty?

• 2:31:26Speaker 05

  Doesn't, that's just, she's a missing lab worker.

• 2:31:28Joe Rogan?

  Does it say what she worked on?

• 2:31:30Speaker 05

  Nope.

• 2:31:30Joe Rogan?

  No?

• 2:31:33Joe Rogan?

  Administrative assistant, uh, yeah, I remember this lady. Yeah.

• 2:31:39Speaker 03

  The other one was, uh, her name is Reza.

• 2:31:44Joe Rogan?

  And the Reza one, that lady, she was the one that has the, uh, so she serves as director of NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory. And she was in the Materials Processing Group. She specialized in burn resistant, high strength metal alloys. And rocket propulsion metals. And wasn't she one that had like a, some weird videos? What she had made?

• 2:32:07Speaker 03

  I don't know.

• 2:32:08Joe Rogan?

  I don't know. Anyway, the whole thing's creepy as fuck.

• 2:32:11Speaker 03

  Wow. And she was hiking in the Angeles National Forest.

• 2:32:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:32:15Speaker 03

  Outside of Pasadena.

• 2:32:19Joe Rogan?

  Hmm. Yeah.

• 2:32:21Speaker 03

  That could actually be a fucking mountain lion.

• 2:32:23Joe Rogan?

  It could be.

• 2:32:24Speaker 03

  You know?

• 2:32:25Joe Rogan?

  Or it could be a lady who's working on top secret rocket propulsion fucking metals.

• 2:32:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:32:31Joe Rogan?

  And like, this lady's a problem.

• 2:32:34Speaker 03

  Wasn't there some, some town, I want to say it's Arcadia in California, they, the, the, the mayor of that city.

• 2:32:40Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:32:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:32:41Joe Rogan?

  Arcadia.

• 2:32:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:32:42Joe Rogan?

  She was a Chinese spy.

• 2:32:47Speaker 03

  I would have to think if you're, if you've, how many people have you recruited? That you finally go, well, fuck it, let's try and get the mayor of Arcadia. We got, we got everybody else.

• 2:32:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they probably like worked her into position to run as mayor, you know? I mean.

• 2:33:02Speaker 03

  And then, and then with the hopes of, she was relatively young, right? Um, maybe go run for a state rep and then run for congress and.

• 2:33:11Joe Rogan?

  Be the fucking president.

• 2:33:12Speaker 03

  There was, uh, there was a thing in the seventies called AB scam. Do you remember this?

• 2:33:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:33:17Speaker 03

  Where there were all of these politicians. A few congressmen, some state reps, uh, and they were all like Russian spies. Or, or at least on the take.

• 2:33:29Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:33:29Speaker 03

  Right. All of them, Soviet. So we aspire.

• 2:33:32Joe Rogan?

  Did you ever see that show, The Americans?

• 2:33:34Speaker 03

  Uh-uh.

• 2:33:35Joe Rogan?

  I didn't either, but I heard it was great. It was all about sleeper cell Russian family that was pretending to be normal.

• 2:33:41Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's fascinating.

• 2:33:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's real. They did that. They really had Russian agents pretending to be American citizens.

• 2:33:48Speaker 03

  Oh, I wouldn't say had, I would say have.

• 2:33:51Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah. No, yeah, I think you're right. Yeah, and Chinese, yeah, for sure. For sure.

• 2:33:56Speaker 03

  A hundred percent.

• 2:33:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:33:58Speaker 03

  No, plenty of them.

• 2:33:59Joe Rogan?

  A hundred percent.

• 2:34:00Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:34:00Joe Rogan?

  Boy, how many Israeli agents are in Hezbollah or in Hamas? Like, probably.

• 2:34:05Speaker 03

  Or in the IRGC.

• 2:34:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, probably. They probably got a bunch of those guys in there.

• 2:34:09Speaker 03

  Hundred percent.

• 2:34:10Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. It's just wild.

• 2:34:12Speaker 03

  Fucking, it's tradecraft, man. That's a fucking whole other thing.

• 2:34:16Joe Rogan?

  How hard is it to write about that stuff and like get it right, to get it accurate?

• 2:34:22Speaker 03

  I mean, you.

• 2:34:26Speaker 03

  I don't know. You speculate a lot and you look at the past, right? Because there's been enough, it's funny because when they get caught, never, it's never that big a deal. Like, there are always some, it doesn't, for whatever reason, the news doesn't. There's, we could pull it up. There's been any number of Chinese scientists over here and they were stealing this and they call them doing this. It happens all the time.

• 2:34:48Joe Rogan?

  See, the ones that got caught trying to bring in bio, they were, they're trying to bring in, what were they trying to bring in, diseases or something?

• 2:34:55Speaker 05

  I was looking, there's another one in Vegas recently, but it's like they have these bio labs that are like being run out of like an apartment or something.

• 2:35:03Joe Rogan?

  CCP-linked bio labs in American soil exposes major biosecurity gaps. Policymakers must act to improve oversight and biological research activity. Wasn't there a guy that got busted that was an Israeli agent and he got released? And he took up.

• 2:35:21Speaker 05

  That's the one I think was in Vegas. I was trying to pull that up.

• 2:35:23Joe Rogan?

  That's the one in Vegas. Yeah, so this guy, he had all these fucking diseases in his garage.

• 2:35:28Speaker 05

  Twelve hundred samples.

• 2:35:33Joe Rogan?

  Conclusion of the FBI lab that the community could not be harmed by what was contained in that lab. What?

• 2:35:43Joe Rogan?

  Finding possible biological laboratory in a garage. Inside investigators found refrigerators with vials containing unknown liquids. Police said in the immediate aftermath, the home is also operated as an unlicensed short-term rental.

• 2:36:00Joe Rogan?

  What is this fucking guy doing? Why, so the question, go scroll up, up, yeah, so the question is, why does somebody have these materials in a private residence? It's not a doctor, not a lab, not a licensed medical facility of any sort. And then homeboy got released.

• 2:36:15Speaker 05

  Yeah, but check out the names on some of the vials.

• 2:36:17Joe Rogan?

  Oh, boy. They located pathogen labeled containers with labels such as dengue fever, HIV, and malaria, along with a thousand mice. Or according to a federal report. Federal government never tested the items and the CDC only made its determination based on the labeling. What? What the fuck?

• 2:36:41Joe Rogan?

  So in that case, Chinese citizen David He faces federal charges for allegedly manufacturing and distributing misbranded medical devices.

• 2:36:52Speaker 05

  He does not face charges.

• 2:36:54Joe Rogan?

  He does not face charges connected to the Las Vegas raid. And a trial in California was scheduled for April. What the fuck?

• 2:37:04Joe Rogan?

  Just a bunch of vials of HIV and AIDS and fucking dengue fever and malaria. No worries.

• 2:37:10Speaker 05

  Jesus.

• 2:37:11Joe Rogan?

  Normal.

• 2:37:13Joe Rogan?

  So what was the Israeli guy? The guy who owned the lab? There was like an Israeli guy who they caught, who owned, and then they released him and he went back to Israel. And everybody's like, hey!

• 2:37:25Joe Rogan?

  What?

• 2:37:26Speaker 05

  It's the same case, I think. It says feds dropped case against man arrested in Las Vegas bio lab investigation.

• 2:37:32Joe Rogan?

  What's his name?

• 2:37:35Speaker 05

  Ori Solomon.

• 2:37:36Joe Rogan?

  Oh Ori, what were you doing? Ori. Ori, why do you have the HIV, Ori? There he is. Feds dropped case against man arrested in Las Vegas bio lab investigation. Yeah, I mean, why investigate? Let it go, guys. No big deal.

• 2:37:54Speaker 05

  He had, he was only charged with illegal possession of a firearm in Nevada.

• 2:38:00Joe Rogan?

  His immigration status precluded him from owning or possessing a gun. Well, listen, if he doesn't have a gun, how the fuck is he gonna defend all his malaria? People try to steal malaria, bro. Gotta be careful.

• 2:38:12Joe Rogan?

  Oh, boy.

• 2:38:13Speaker 05

  Yeah, this doesn't. Seems like someone made that go.

• 2:38:16Joe Rogan?

  There's too much fucking shit in the world to pay attention to. And too much of it is so disheartening. The more you look into it, the more you're like, is it all fucked? Is the whole world fucked? Like, what is going on?

• 2:38:30Speaker 03

  And, and my guess is because there are so many different, two things, right? There's so many different, there's no secrets with the internet and social media and phones. Shit's getting out. But it's also getting out at such a volume that none of it seems to have an impact.

• 2:38:49Joe Rogan?

  Right, right, right.

• 2:38:51Speaker 03

  There's just so much.

• 2:38:52Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:38:53Speaker 03

  Think about that in the 1990s.

• 2:38:56Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:38:56Speaker 03

  They're talking about that on Nightline and this and that and Meet the Press and Chinese spy, Israeli, you know?

• 2:39:04Joe Rogan?

  Uh huh.

• 2:39:05Speaker 03

  That's news. But now it's just another.

• 2:39:08Joe Rogan?

  The news cycle's a flood. It's like you, you, you drop a rose petal in the river while flood's going by, like, it's gone.

• 2:39:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:39:17Joe Rogan?

  It's here, it's gone.

• 2:39:19Speaker 03

  And it's a sensory overload and

• 2:39:20Joe Rogan?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:39:21Speaker 03

  And, and people are tuning it all out.

• 2:39:23Joe Rogan?

  They're tuning it all out also because nothing ever gets done, nothing happens. And the more people like that get released, the more people are like, ah! They throw their hands in there, they'd rather just watch sports.

• 2:39:32Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah, just forget about it.

• 2:39:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:39:36Joe Rogan?

  Well.

• 2:39:37Speaker 03

  I can't believe Simon and Schuster didn't send you my book.

• 2:39:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, I don't know what happened. But I'll listen to it on audio tape. I'm glad you did the audio tape, though.

• 2:39:46Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:39:46Joe Rogan?

  That's important.

• 2:39:47Speaker 03

  Yeah. Pull up the, you're gonna fucking love it. It's.

• 2:39:52Speaker 03

  It's oddly entertaining and informative.

• 2:39:56Joe Rogan?

  How did you have the time to write a book?

• 2:39:58Speaker 03

  So what?

• 2:39:58Joe Rogan?

  You're writing a hundred and fifty different TV shows.

• 2:40:00Speaker 03

  So, so you know what it is? Do you know anything about it?

• 2:40:03Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 2:40:05Speaker 03

  Pull it up, I just wanna, I'm gonna try and,

• 2:40:08Speaker 03

  I don't even wanna tell you what it's called, I just want you to see the title.

• 2:40:11Joe Rogan?

  How to Not Die in Prison?

• 2:40:13Speaker 03

  I told you you don't like it.

• 2:40:17Speaker 03

  So here's the, so, so here's the deal.

• 2:40:21Speaker 03

  So, when I lived in LA, there was a gym on Beverly Boulevard. Right at like Beverly and Sweets or, and everybody called it Buns on Beverly, cuz they had all the, the, the treadmills, kinda right up there and all the girls were there and if you get stuck in traffic, you're staring at all their asses, and that was my gym. So me and a buddy of mine, shared an apartment together and we'd jog down there and work out every day. And there was this dude that showed up and started working out in there, and this dude was jacked. But different than like the West Hollywood fit, like this fucker was yoked and had all these crazy tattoos on him. And, and we became kind of like friendly. And, and ended up kinda becoming friends. And his name's Tom Nelson.

• 2:41:05Speaker 03

  And one day I'm like, "Hey, so, uh, what you been doing?" He goes, "Well, you know, I'm just starting a personal training, I'm gonna start personal training here. I was working over at the vitamin shop." Guy's like in his 40s. I'm like, "A vitamin shop in your 40s, that's kinda weird." And I said, "Yeah, um, have you always lived in, uh, California?" He's like, "Well, I've been here, uh, nineteen years, twenty years." "Yeah, yeah." I said, "Where you from?" "Somewhere in the southeast." And I said, "You always live in LA?" He goes, "Well, no, I just got to LA." "See, I've been in prison." I said, "Oh." "How long?" "Seventeen years." I said, "Oh." And I didn't ask anything else, right? Uh, he does become a personal trainer and I'd see him over, well, one day we have lunch and we're bullshitting and I'm like,

• 2:41:51Speaker 03

  "So, what, what, what, tell me the deal." He's like, "Oh, I was a fucking criminal dude, like a criminal, like a real criminal. Like biggest drug dealer in, in Hollywood and armed robbery and ran over a DEA agent, like I was a fucking criminal." But now, you know, when I was in, I, I, I discovered, you know, fitness, I started working out and I'm like, "When I get out, I'm gonna, you know, he got himself in good shape, I'm gonna start, this is my passion, I'm gonna do this."

• 2:42:17Speaker 03

  So he was a trainer there for a while and then he opened his own personal training gym. And uh, and I would go work out over there and hang out with him. He was a cool fucking dude. And uh, and it became the biggest private training gym in independent in Hollywood.

• 2:42:34Speaker 03

  So I go off and I, I uh, you know, I start writing and uh, I'm shooting Yellowstone and he reaches out and he goes, hey, I wrote a movie about my life. I'm gonna send it to you. So he sends it to me and I read it and it's actually pretty good. Um, but it's sort of a fun nineties kinda, they don't make movies like this anymore. It's like we, it's The Rock, but we're celebrating the, you know, the guy, the fucking criminal. But it was, but it was good. I said, hey, I'll pass it on to some producers and, but nothing ever happened with it. Anyway, so COVID happens. I'm stuck up on this ranch in Montana and I call him and I say, Tom, where do you get your gym equipment from? Cause I need to build a gym, cause we can't go to a gym. I can't leave the ranch.

• 2:43:18Speaker 03

  COVID restrictions, the whole fucking cast is stuck on that ranch. And, and he said, they shut my gym down, dude. So, I mean, I'll sell you anything you want. So I, I sent a flatbed trailer to LA and picked up a pile of gym equipment from him. And didn't, didn't, didn't hear from him again. He calls me maybe 18 months ago, two years. And I, and I answer and he's like, hey man, I'm in a bad way. I'm like, what's the deal? He goes, fucking, I got a single father, I got a five-year-old kid, I got fucking colon cancer. I'm fucking dying and I don't, I'm, I'm tapped out dude. I'm a fucking 60-year-old felon. I can't get a job. I can't do anything. Is there any work on your movies or, or anything that I could do?

• 2:44:04Speaker 03

  And I said, well, first, colon cancer, how bad? Like what stage, what's this? He goes, I don't know. They saw it on an X-ray and diagnosed me and I said, well, let's deal with that shit first. So I fly him to Texas where I know people and I get him in and he sees a, a doctor and fortunately the mass wasn't cancer. So they, they help him out, do the surgery, get that done. And then I say, well, I mean, I get you a job in a movie, but it doesn't pay very good. And the hours are shit and you've got a five year old daughter. I mean, you, you know, to just be a production assistant or something is not gonna pay enough to off. It's, it's not a great, that's not a plan, right? He goes, you think you could like just spot me for a few months while I try and figure shit out?

• 2:44:47Speaker 03

  And I said, I have a hundred percent failure rate of loaning money to friends. Like it doesn't work, right? I'm not a bank and, and buying you 90 days ain't gonna fucking help. So, but let me think, let me think of something. And so it doesn't take me very long. And I'm, and I'm thinking, here's a guy who spent 17 years in prison. And you know what I've never read? I've never read a how to not fucking die, a, a travel guide to prison. So I call him back and I go, I got it, Tom. We're gonna write a book about my life. Kinda, we're gonna write a travel guide to prison for the accidental inmate, right?

• 2:45:31Speaker 03

  Somebody who fucks up and they end up and they don't know how to navigate this place. He goes, a travel guide? I said, I'm gonna send you. So I bought a bunch of Lonely Planet, travel guide to Thailand and Mexico. And, and I said, look at these, right? It breaks it down. It tells you an overview of the country. Then it gives you a glossary of the terms. They teach you the language. They talk about the food. They talk about where you stay. They talk about navigating the country. We're gonna do that for, for prison. And he goes, I'm in. I said, great, I'm gonna write all the intros. I'll build the structure and, and walk you through it and you're gonna. So it's literally a travel guide to prison. And it walks you through day one, how to navigate the yard, being processed in, the food, the commissary,

• 2:46:15Speaker 03

  the gangs, the diseases, prison riots, how to get a job in there, how to fucking make a shiv, how to do everything. Whoa. It's a, it is a tour guide to prison. How many pages? Couple hundred.

• 2:46:30Joe Rogan?

  It sounds awesome.

• 2:46:31Speaker 03

  It's the craziest.

• 2:46:32Joe Rogan?

  I hope I never need it.

• 2:46:33Speaker 03

  No, well, I'm.

• 2:46:34Joe Rogan?

  Most people who read it, hope they never need it.

• 2:46:36Speaker 03

  I'm gonna guess ninety-nine percent of the people who do read it. The one thing it'll do is tell you, you don't ever wanna fuck it go there. That's for sure, right? And typically, if someone's going there. I even say in the intro, I'm like, if you're, if you're buying this book because you're going to prison, finish the book before you get to prison. Do not bring this book with you to prison. Or you'll die on fucking day one, so leave the book at home. But, yeah, so, so then we did, I took the, we, we wrote three chapters of it. I took it out, um, and Simon Schuster read it, flipped. And me and Tom got a book deal, so.

• 2:47:12Joe Rogan?

  That's awesome.

• 2:47:13Speaker 03

  So he, you know, he, he, he was able to sit with me and we wrote it and he was able to take care of his kid and.

• 2:47:19Joe Rogan?

  That's very cool.

• 2:47:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:47:20Joe Rogan?

  Good, good for you, man, for doing that. That's really awesome that you did that. Cause I know you're busy as shit. Like you having another project on your plate, not, not fun probably. That's awesome.

• 2:47:31Speaker 03

  That one was a lot of fun, right?

• 2:47:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but not fun to take something else on. I mean, I'm sure you're.

• 2:47:37Speaker 03

  Yeah, I, but it was, it was, it was a very entertaining diversion from, you know, from my other, you know, I can bitch about my other job, right? Bitch about something on Landman or whatever and then, you know, I'm gonna sit down and, oh, we're writing about smallpox today. Okay, there's, there's some perspective. It's not, it's not quite so bad that Billy Bob is an hour late to work. Which he's never an hour late to work, but, but you get my point.

• 2:48:02Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:48:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's a sobering thing. It's a, it's, it's a. That's a broken system. You wanna talk about a broken fucking system?

• 2:48:10Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:48:12Speaker 03

  The prison system is broken.

• 2:48:13Joe Rogan?

  Alabama Solution on, you know, the guy who did that documentary on Alabama prison system? It's fucking heartbreaking, man. Heartbreaking.

• 2:48:23Speaker 03

  I used to.

• 2:48:26Speaker 03

  Be roommates with the guy that edited all of those locked up. He would go and film those locked up. Remember those?

• 2:48:31Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:48:32Speaker 03

  Go to Folsom and Corcoran and all these prisons.

• 2:48:35Joe Rogan?

  Dude, it's tell.

• 2:48:37Speaker 03

  Rough and and not designed to rehabilitate, right?

• 2:48:41Joe Rogan?

  At all.

• 2:48:42Speaker 03

  It's an institution that guarantees you're a criminal when you come out. That's what you'll be. If you weren't a criminal when you went in, which you clearly committed a crime and got convicted, but you're gonna be a fucking criminal when you come out. Like the people, the guys like Tom, who, I mean, there's an eighty something percent recidivism rate in the US. So for a guy to get out of prison and not go back to prison, the odds are fucking four to one against you. Like it's

• 2:49:12Joe Rogan?

  At least.

• 2:49:13Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:49:14Joe Rogan?

  It's probably higher than that, right?

• 2:49:16Speaker 03

  I think it's eighty something, eighty something percent, eighty six, eighty, yeah.

• 2:49:21Joe Rogan?

  Buck.

• 2:49:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's brutal. It's brutal.

• 2:49:26Joe Rogan?

  Well, I'm glad you wrote it. I'll read it. I promise. I'm gonna listen to it. I'll listen to it in the sauna.

• 2:49:32Speaker 03

  There you go.

• 2:49:34Joe Rogan?

  Uh, thanks for everything, man. Thanks for all the awesome shows. It's been great watching them.

• 2:49:37Speaker 03

  Dude, thanks for watching.

• 2:49:39Joe Rogan?

  You're the man. Appreciate you. Appreciate the guy that

• 2:49:41Speaker 03

  We had time to talk about one more thing.

• 2:49:43Joe Rogan?

  Sure.

• 2:49:44Speaker 03

  That UFC two fifty.

• 2:49:46Joe Rogan?

  Oh, man. Yeah.

• 2:49:47Speaker 03

  Justin Gagey, dude.

• 2:49:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I just had him on.

• 2:49:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, I know. I know.

• 2:49:51Joe Rogan?

  It was incredible.

• 2:49:52Speaker 03

  I saw him, remember when I bumped into you at that fight in Vegas? That's the first time I'd seen him live. And I go to a bunch of prize fights. I love boxing. And I'm watching that guy. If he had decided to be a professional boxer, he would, his striking is, is that level. Like that dude, he went to work on that guy.

• 2:50:15Joe Rogan?

  Now, he's a, oh man, I'm glad he's a MMA fighter because he started out as an All-American wrestler and Division One. He's like very, he's a, just a great athlete all across the board. And just his particular style of aggression is so well suited for MMA.

• 2:50:32Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:50:33Joe Rogan?

  It's just

• 2:50:33Speaker 03

  It's shocking that he's that good a striker and he was a wrestler.

• 2:50:37Joe Rogan?

  I know. Uh, he's, he's just a wild motherfucker like across the board. But for him to pull that off the way he did at the White House was nuts. I mean, he's, some books had him a six to one underdog.

• 2:50:51Joe Rogan?

  And Ilya Toporia is so fucking good.

• 2:50:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:50:54Joe Rogan?

  He's so good. And he had him in sick trouble in that second round. Let's say, I watched it again yesterday. The second round was brutal. I mean, Ilya was just destroying his liver.

• 2:51:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, almost put him down.

• 2:51:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. But even in the second round, Justin, he still bloodied Ilya up. His face was busted up. Like, he was getting the most damage to Ilya's face. And that was a giant factor in the fight. Because I don't know what the accuracy of these reports are, but what's being reported is that he had two broken orbital bones and a broken nose. So both his eyes were broken and his nose was broken. And Justin was here a couple of days later and he looked great. It's just nuts. It's just like, he's very deceptively good at rolling with shots. And, you know, he's fucking durable as hell. And just very clever, very clever in how he sets things up and where he finds openings.

• 2:51:49Joe Rogan?

  And one of the things he kept getting off is this, he does like, he does a collar tie into an uppercut. And he got that off multiple shots. He did that with Fazev, too. He's really good with that move. He's a beast, man. I'm, I'm just so happy for him to win. I'm, you know, I'm a giant Ilya Toporia fan as well. And I think he'll be back better than ever. And I think sometimes a loss is like one of the most important things a fighter can ever have. Because they realize like, you can be beat. And you need to know that you're a human. You need to know that you, you can't just throw caution to the wind sometimes. You just engage in these wild scraps. Sometimes you, you have to be a little bit more tactical. And sometimes you got to realize like, you can't take everybody out. And, and that's the case with Justin.

• 2:52:33Joe Rogan?

  They couldn't take him out. And he almost did in the second round. Got real fucking close, real close. But, you know.

• 2:52:41Speaker 03

  That, that frickin' Justin, he, he can time. That transfer of power to him right at the end of the punch.

• 2:52:47Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:52:47Speaker 03

  And just his hands are so heavy.

• 2:52:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, everybody says that too. Everybody who he's fought has said he's one of the hardest guys that's ever hit them, including Khabib, who's, you know, one of the all-time greats. Said Justin hit him harder than anybody.

• 2:53:00Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:53:01Joe Rogan?

  He's a fucking animal.

• 2:53:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, it was impressive, man.

• 2:53:03Joe Rogan?

  And the fight was like, to be there at the White House while that was going on and to have Justin so happy. Like, there's something about a guy winning who's an underdog that is just so fucking inspiring.

• 2:53:15Speaker 03

  He didn't look like an underdog that night.

• 2:53:16Joe Rogan?

  No, he didn't. Not after the second round, he didn't. Especially the third. Once the third rolled around, he dropped him, and then he, he, he, uh, got a head and arm and snatched him down to the ground. I was like, holy shit, man. He's, he's fucking dominating him. This is crazy.

• 2:53:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:53:31Joe Rogan?

  It was wild. Wild to watch.

• 2:53:32Speaker 03

  It was wild.

• 2:53:33Joe Rogan?

  It was awesome, though.

• 2:53:34Speaker 03

  It was fantastic.

• 2:53:35Joe Rogan?

  Should've been there live.

• 2:53:37Speaker 03

  Man, that would've been a good one.

• 2:53:38Joe Rogan?

  Oh, it was crazy. It was crazy to be there live. It just felt surreal. I mean, they had to fly over. They all fucking jet together.

• 2:53:44Speaker 03

  I saw that. Jets come shooting over.

• 2:53:45Joe Rogan?

  Bro, they were like separated by like that far from each other. It's, I don't know how the fuck those guys do that. It was incredible.

• 2:53:51Speaker 03

  Incredible.

• 2:53:52Joe Rogan?

  Incredible.

• 2:53:53Speaker 03

  Yeah. That was awesome.

• 2:53:54Joe Rogan?

  Thanks, brother. Once again, the book is called How to Not Die in Prison.

• 2:53:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:53:58Joe Rogan?

  And, uh, available now, audiobook, everything.

• 2:54:01Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 2:54:02Joe Rogan?

  Thank you.

• 2:54:02Speaker 03

  Awesome, buddy. Thank you.

• 2:54:03Joe Rogan?

  Bye, everybody.

• 2:54:18Speaker 06

  Now at Kroger, your points add up to more ways to save every trip. Use them your way to take dollars off groceries at checkout or save at the pump. You can even save up to $35 on your next fill-up. Same points, more choices. And with low prices on fresh, quality food, plus digital and personalized offers tailored to how you shop, your dollar goes further. Redeem your points online or in the app. Kroger. Fresh for everyone. Restrictions apply. See site or store for details.