"Celebrity Jeopardy!" Film Study (Championship Edition) with Mina Kimes and Domonique Foxworth

How is preparing for a game show like playing in the NFL? What's the first rule of "Jeopardy!" Fight Club? And why would you bet zero dollars with a million on the line? Plus: Katie Nolan's secret pep talk, Daily Double brain glitch, Spygate... and a buzzer bibliography. Previously on PTFO: • "Celebrity Jeopardy!" Film Study with Mina Kimes and Timothy Simons https://pod.link/1685093486/episode/NjllOTUzZDBjNWZiZjA0ZjRhMWNhNjdk • Behind the Scenes of Pablo's History-Making "Family Feud" Adventure https://pod.link/1685093486/episode/OTUyYzVlNjgtODRkZC0xMWYwLWFjNDUtYmI1YmNlMzc5M2Nk Plus: • Subscribe to "The Mina Kimes Show featuring Lenny" https://pod.link/1437647915 • Subscribe to "The Domonique Foxworth Show" https://pod.link/1642566714 • Support SELAH Neighborhood Homeless Coalition https://secure.qgiv.com/for/selahdoublejeopardy/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Pablo Torre?

  Welcome to Pablo Torre Finds Out. I am Pablo Torre and today, we're gonna find out what this sound is.

• 0:06Speaker 01

  (mimicking a bell) It's different, mate.

• 0:12Pablo Torre?

  Right after this ad.

• 0:17Speaker 02

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• 0:40Speaker 03

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• 1:13Pablo Torre?

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• 1:57Pablo Torre?

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• 2:20Speaker 04

  You guys got some filter set up, or maybe I got a filter set up.

• 2:23Pablo Torre?

  You do look suspiciously.

• 2:26Speaker 04

  Right?

• 2:26Pablo Torre?

  Smoothed.

• 2:28Speaker 04

  I got a filter. How do I take this [__] off? I'm fine with being real, baby.

• 2:33Speaker 05

  Sorry about that. Wouldn't open for some reason. I think we're good now, though.

• 2:37Speaker 04

  Settings.

• 2:40Speaker 05

  Alright.

• 2:41Speaker 04

  Video effects. Oh, yeah, it's all the way turned up like I'm some type of ugh.

• 2:48Pablo Torre?

  Mina, Dominique has had his AI touch-up activated to the maximum possible setting.

• 2:53Speaker 05

  Oh, I didn't know that was the thing. I need to, let me do that.

• 2:58Speaker 04

  I hate that [__]. It's on zero now. Let's take that off.

• 3:02Pablo Torre?

  You don't want a little bit? Just a little bit?

• 3:05Speaker 04

  Nah.

• 3:06Pablo Torre?

  A little, little, little.

• 3:07Speaker 04

  Real. I'm tired of creating these unattainable beauty standards for young black men. I am bucking the system.

• 3:16Pablo Torre?

  You also look tired now, incidentally. You visibly are tired.

• 3:22Speaker 04

  It's real. I am tired.

• 3:26Speaker 04

  You two one kid having asses out here acting like you tired.

• 3:31Speaker 05

  Sorry, guys. I have a heart out, and I know it's my fault for starting late because I couldn't get to work, so.

• 3:36Pablo Torre?

  You win one Celebrity Jeopardy All-Stars Championship, and suddenly Mina is too good.

• 3:41Speaker 05

  It's not because of me. It's because of David Dennis Jr., who himself has a heart out. It's a trickle effect of heart outs.

• 3:47Pablo Torre?

  Heart outs all the way down. Dominique, how did you congratulate Mina?

• 3:51Speaker 04

  Um, I don't know. Said congratulations.

• 3:57Speaker 04

  How did you congratulate her? Were we supposed to do something?

• 4:00Pablo Torre?

  Forced her onto the show to make content for me? That was my congratulation.

• 4:04Speaker 04

  You used her, as you do.

• 4:05Pablo Torre?

  The ultimate compliment. The ultimate compliment.

• 4:09Speaker 05

  Is it?

• 4:10Pablo Torre?

  I also didn't theorize before the broadcast because I had theories about what was gonna happen in the championship. So confidentiality was my ultimate gift, I dare say.

• 4:21Speaker 05

  That actually, more so than Pablo forcing people onto this podcast being the ultimate compliment, Pablo keeping a secret really is the ultimate compliment, if you know Pablo.

• 4:32Speaker 04

  You told him, though, so like...

• 4:35Speaker 05

  Yeah, and the fact that he didn't actually do anything with it is honestly a testament to our friendship.

• 4:41Pablo Torre?

  That's right.

• 4:42Speaker 04

  Nice job, Pablo.

• 5:01Speaker 04

  So how jealous are you? Let's get to the point. Let's turn it on you. You are...

• 5:05Speaker 05

  This is why I'm so glad we're doing this with Dominique.

• 5:08Speaker 04

  Let's keep it real, man.

• 5:09Speaker 05

  My ally, my strongest soldier.

• 5:12Speaker 04

  There's nothing in you. We know you, man. Like, and I've said this about you too. You are the...

• 5:17Pablo Torre?

  This is not what I'm here to do.

• 5:18Speaker 04

  Most selfish person that I actually like. I've told you this a number of times. And I know how your brain operates. I know part of you, and like, Mina won't be upset because she knows this is you two. Part of you, especially in arenas of trivia or intellect, part of you is like, "Fuck, that could have been me." Right?

• 5:39Pablo Torre?

  I need to be very clear about something because Dominique is saying things that I'm sure the many haters and losers out there fully agree with. I am merely here to clarify that Mina did one of the great things for me in my life. We were teammates in Celebrity Family Feud. And due to Dave Chang's incompetence, he only realized late that Mina and I could not be the tag team to do the final thing. And Mina said to me, in a gift that I can only aspire to repay one day, "You go do this. It'll be good for your podcast." And Chang and I tag teamed and won.

• 6:20Speaker 06

  Name a coin you throw into a fountain to make a whoosh. You said... The penny. Yes. Survey said... Oh my god.

• 6:33Speaker 04

  Why?

• 6:40Pablo Torre?

  And I have to thank Mina Kimes for that. I owe her a debt beyond repayment.

• 6:45Speaker 04

  Why didn't you do this back then?

• 6:48Pablo Torre?

  Do what?

• 6:49Speaker 04

  When that happened, and it was a big deal, and it was like bouncing around the internet, and everyone was like, "Wow, Pablo, this is pretty cool." At that point.

• 6:57Pablo Torre?

  I said it on the episode we did about it that you did not listen to.

• 7:01Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah.

• 7:02Speaker 05

  I think Pablo, though, Dominique is, in his retelling of the Family Feud story, is echoing your point about me, which is that my most powerful driving animus is competitiveness, more so than envy. In fact, in that moment, I was very mad at David Chang for being terrible at Family Feud, and that was the competitiveness. And I was happy to let Pablo finish and win the game because I knew he would rise to the occasion.

• 7:28Speaker 04

  Thank you.

• 7:29Speaker 05

  I'm about the team, man.

• 7:31Speaker 04

  But in that moment.

• 7:33Pablo Torre?

  My driving motive.

• 7:34Speaker 04

  Pablo, right, like in that moment, there was a choice to be made, and it was Mina's to be made. She had to, she would have to defer to you. And you tried, rather than just answering this question from the start, we could have got off this [BLEEP]. You just honest from the start. You went a roundabout way to try to pretend like what I said wasn't true.

• 7:53Pablo Torre?

  I, I am not.

• 7:55Speaker 04

  And then you tried to put it on her and say that she's like you, but you just then told a story that demonstrated that, in a moment, when she could have gone for the glory and the attention and the celebration, she chose to give it to your needy ass.

• 8:09Pablo Torre?

  When I watched Mina go and dominate Celebrity Jeopardy All Stars, there are things that I will feel this about and have felt this about. But this one was like watching my friend go to space. Like, I've never competed at this. I was entirely and purely psyched to do this podcast until now.

• 8:33Speaker 04

  No, I think you are, and I think you were happy for Mina. I think that you could be just as happy for Mina as me or anybody else. But I also think that this is not like going to space. Because you're not a fucking astronaut. This is a game that's based on knowledge and strategy. That's something that you believe yourself to be good at. That's all I'm saying.

• 8:56Pablo Torre?

  This is where I need to reveal to the audience something.

• 8:58Speaker 04

  Did you do Quiz Bowl in high school? You look like you did Quiz Bowl in high school.

• 9:01Pablo Torre?

  Again, the profiling is just impressive.

• 9:04Speaker 04

  It's not profiling. Or call it what you want. You can't beat me. Did you do it or not?

• 9:07Pablo Torre?

  This is where I need to tell the people who are not the three of us talking to each other that I did not do Quiz Bowl. I do think that it would be very embarrassing. This is what I did think. I thought if I get invited to do Celebrity Jeopardy, I probably shouldn't do it because there's so little upside for me. I will only reveal myself to be not only not a champion, but like will probably embarrass myself and that'd be bad.

• 9:33Speaker 05

  I actually think that that's a deterrent for a lot of people. Jeopardy as opposed to other celebrity game shows, right? It gives you the highest risk of exposure, especially because the questions are easier than regular Jeopardy. So not only can you be exposed as maybe not knowing stuff, but you're exposed as not knowing stuff that a lot of people at home know or think they know without sort of getting at how much harder it is in the moment and how much more nerve wracking it can be. So the risk for embarrassment in Celebrity Jeopardy is pretty high.

• 10:04Speaker 04

  I mean, I agree. I think I would say about Mina, the thing that I think is pretty impressive is you have the ability to turn on the back against the wall urgency, the contract year level intensity that I don't have unless I'm actually in a contract year.

• 10:25Pablo Torre?

  Well, that's why we're here. That's why we're here today, Dominique. Because you are, you are, I will disclose this. You are a competitor on Sports Jeopardy, the new show hosted by Joe Buck. And you cannot talk about this, but I am spoiling every agreement that you may have made.

• 10:42Speaker 04

  Is this a result of your investigative reporting? Because I haven't told anybody.

• 10:46Pablo Torre?

  We are constantly investigating and constantly fetishizing awards in the course of investigation. And we're gonna do film room. Because what we both have to learn from our friend Mina, I think, is meaningful. For you, it's news you could use as a contestant. And for me, it is something that I need to make peace with because, yeah, it's probably like 99 to 1. I'll grant you, there's a 1% where I was like, "Oh, I'm gonna hear about this for a while." And I want to start, actually, with our other friend, who I did think about and really felt terribly for in all of this. Celebrity Jeopardy All-Star Katie Nolan. And she is how I first got into the film room at the very beginning of our decision as a show to really commit to doing celebrity game show journalism.

• 11:31Pablo Torre?

  Because it was Mina, it was Lisa Ann Walters from Abbott Elementary. It was the semifinal of Celebrity Jeopardy All-Stars. Mina, and this happens.

• 11:43Speaker 07

  A blue-white supergiant that will go out a supernova, Rigel shines on in this constellation, known for a three-star fashion accessory.

• 11:53Speaker 05

  This constellation known for a three-star fashion?

• 11:57Speaker 07

  Mina?

• 11:58Speaker 05

  What is a... I don't understand the question.

• 12:03Speaker 07

  The fashion accessory is a belt, because this is Orion.

• 12:06Speaker 05

  Oh, okay.

• 12:06Speaker 07

  Rigel is found in Orion. But you only lose 1,500.

• 12:09Speaker 05

  That's all right, now you're tied with me.

• 12:10Speaker 07

  Tied with Katie for second place, solidarity.

• 12:13Speaker 05

  What happened, that's actually not shown on the tape, is we went to, I think, commercial break not long after that. Because I remember I had to do an interview when I was, like, way down. You do two interviews, right, in Celebrity Jeopardy? And the first one, I think I was either winning or whatever. The second one, I had just completely... The reason I was down is I had gotten two daily doubles. I suck at daily doubles, which I've learned in the process of doing Jeopardy, by the way. Something about that with the lights and the timing, where my brain just completely glitches. And what happened there is, we went to break, and there's break between the tapings, and Katie leans over and gives me a pep talk that's not shown on camera. And she's such a good friend in that moment, I wanted to highlight it. She leans over and she's like, "Hey, just play your game, this isn't over."

• 12:58Speaker 05

  And it's really true, there's three rounds, and triple Jeopardys were so much more, that really, the first two rounds don't matter that much. And she says that to me, and like, it was so sweet and nice. I wish it was shown on television, because it really helped calm me down after I was so awful in that, I think, double Jeopardy round.

• 13:15Speaker 04

  If I'm ever on Jeopardy, I would love one day to be on that show in some capacity. However, I'd say that Mina demonstrated again, like, share the spotlight. I think this episode is not going to be about Jeopardy. It's going to be about Pablo learning from Mina to be a better human.

• 13:32Pablo Torre?

  Well, this takes us to final Jeopardy. Here are the stakes. Lisa Ann, 9600, you, 8000, Katie Nolan, 5100. For people who are not familiar with, again, the behind the scenes stuff, what is the vibe before that last moment?

• 13:50Speaker 05

  So you get a pen and paper, pencil and paper, and you get to work out the math of your wagering. And I don't know what Katie and Lisa Ann, if they had noticed that I was literally filling my entire page up with calculations. But I was like, because this was the exact scenario that I had prepared the most for. So going into the Jeopardy quarterfinals and semifinals, I really didn't prepare at all. It was like during the football season, I showed up, I didn't think anything of it. But there was one thing I prepared for going into this game, which was final Jeopardy wagering, which folks who are really into Jeopardy or who compete on Jeopardy, spend a lot of time thinking about this.

• 14:32Speaker 05

  It is arguably the most important thing you can prepare for in Jeopardy, because it's the only thing where you know what's going to happen versus the categories. So final Jeopardy, the way it works is first place is kind of the only known variable. If you're in first place 99 times out of 100, certainly in Celebrity Jeopardy, they're just going to bet to double up second. Now, folks say, well, what if you know second place is going to do this? You can't, you don't do it, right? Like, if you're in first place and you have a lead, you simply cannot bet anything other than against the possibility of second place doubling up on you. Does anyone have any questions for it?

• 15:07Pablo Torre?

  Yeah, who are the folks? You keep on referencing folks say. Who else is talking about this?

• 15:11Speaker 05

  So in my research, I had just kind of like was searching for Final Jeopardy strategy. I came across some really helpful Reddit threads where people had laid out different scenarios. There's also a great website I found, it's the first one that comes out when you search for wagering strategy, that laid out every possible scenario. I actually spent time in my trailer before Jeopardy. The only thing I did was practice some scenarios with hand and paper, just to see how it would go. So anyways, that's first place. Second place is where things get really interesting. If you are in second place and you are over two-thirds of the way to first place,

• 15:53Speaker 05

  which is what I was, and I realized at the end there, right? You should bet $0. Now, you also have to bet to cover third, which is what I did. And third place, we'll get to that, is a complete wild card in all of this. But the reason why you don't bet much money and potentially $0, if you don't have to cover third, is your only chance of winning is if first place is wrong, right? Like, and because you have so much money, first place has to bet a lot, which Lisa Ann Walter did, to cover you. So if you bet zero or very little money, if they're wrong, which is your only chance, you have to live in that world. If you're right, you'll win. But if you're wrong, you will also win because of what first place had to do, was forced to do.

• 16:37Speaker 05

  And ultimately, that's the scenario that played out with me and Lisa Ann. We were both wrong, we can get to Katie in a second. And because she had to bet, I think she bet $7,000 to cover me, she fell down below me.

• 16:49Speaker 04

  Put much more like, simply is the only way you can win is if first place loses? Because if first place gets it right, it doesn't matter what you bet. Right? And so, and then, yeah.

• 17:00Speaker 05

  But it's hard, honestly, like, it is hard to go up there and bet $0 and people don't do it.

• 17:07Pablo Torre?

  This brings us to what happened.

• 17:08Speaker 07

  Let's see how this goes. Katie Nolan's in third with $5,100. Squinting up her face a bit, she wrote down... Alexa, and she's correct. A nod to the Library of Alexandria. That's why it's named Alexa. Hey, hey. How much did you wager, Katie? Okay, you didn't wager a thing. You still have $5,100. Mina Kimes was in second place with $8,000. Did she know it was Alexa? Ah, she guessed Claude. How much did you risk? Another small wager, $2,210. She now has $5,790. Lisa Ann Walter had the lead coming into Final Jeopardy. Did she think of Alexa? What is Babylon know? How much did you risk?

• 17:53Speaker 07

  Oh, a big wager, the biggest one, takes you down to $2,600. And Mina Kimes, you're going to the Celebrity Jeopardy All-Stars Final.

• 18:01Speaker 05

  I didn't get it.

• 18:02Speaker 07

  Congratulations.

• 18:07Speaker 05

  Okay, so yeah, Katie did get the answer right, and she bet $0. And she has talked about she went back and forth on what to do. In the final of Celebrity Jeopardy last season, I risked it all. And I got it wrong, which means I ended with zero. This year, I get to the end, I'm like, [bleep]. I'm just gonna risk it all. I risk it all as my wager, and I'm sitting there. And then I go, don't make the same mistake twice. So I had to call them over and go, can I change this to zero? And at first, they were like, no. And I was like, no, please, I don't think. They had to like, consult to see if it was allowed. They changed it to zero for me. Mina goes, I didn't even get it right. I was like, I know.

• 18:51Speaker 05

  Are you trying to turn me into the Joker? I know. You didn't even get it right. And I said in the aftermath, like, you gotta, everybody was like, it's so obvious, she should bet it all. It is not obvious. Like, why would Katie think? Why would anyone think in Celebrity Jeopardy that second place would? Not bet at all because I and I've watched some celebrity jeopardy games. They usually do, right? Like typically, I went back and looked at Ike Barinholtz, who we're going to talk about his final. Patton Oswalt bet at all in second. Like it is not at all unreasonable for third place to think that first place and second place would cancel each other out. And Katie also correctly knew her only chance is if we were both wrong.

• 19:32Speaker 04

  It's I mean, it's the obvious situation where your instinct is if you're trailing, like I gotta, I gotta go for it. Like that's true. I think while it seems obvious now that Mina's explained it to you, if you were put in that situation, your instinct is always like, damn, I'm in second place. I gotta catch first place. Like if I double my score, I won't catch him. But what the hell? I gotta try to catch him and then hope they get it wrong and fall underneath you. But you have to understand that no matter what, they have to get it wrong. So if they get it wrong, with the least amount that you can put at risk to still put yourself ahead of.

• 20:09Pablo Torre?

  But this is the thing where this Katie got the answer right. And that sucks so much.

• 20:16Speaker 05

  I know.

• 20:17Pablo Torre?

  Just like the

• 20:17Speaker 05

  I felt awful watching it.

• 20:19Pablo Torre?

  But it but it speaks to like the whole thing of this is a game in which the meta of the game is actually essential in ways that are beyond merely knowing the right answer. I'm so impressed in the NBA and the NFL when there is like this optimized strategy that for some reason has not become obvious to everybody else. And so the time in which you can benefit from both having the knowledge and the strategy, Mina. Like this is the thing that blew my mind. I'm like, how the amount of time that goes to the strategy? That's what blew me away and really impressed me is like how you, how you did all that stuff that no one ever saw.

• 20:59Speaker 05

  That part, I mean, honestly, isn't that much time. Like you just have to like, I was literally the night before, I was like, oh, this is what I should do. And the other thing I want to add is like, I really didn't want to be in third place because of what we're describing with Katie, because I didn't feel there was an optimal betting strategy in third place. I read all the way, wait, wait, like, to be clear, in third place, if you You're playing third place and you are in regular Jeopardy. You should anticipate second place doing what I did and then do the complicated math to figure out how far second place will fall and how far first place will fall. But why would you think that in Celebrity Jeopardy? Like I, and I was thinking that too. I was like, if I'm third place and it's Celebrity Jeopardy, I am not, I'm gonna assume second place bets at all. Yeah. Like I would.

• 21:43Speaker 05

  So I just want folks to lay off her. I don't know. I was upset by, like, her and I text a lot afterwards. And I, and I just like felt so awful the way it all played out, especially because she was so sweet to me during the taping and she's my friend. But I also want to emphasize, like, what she did was not, everybody's hounding her and I don't think it's as obvious as people think. That's all I want to say.

• 22:12Pablo Torre?

  This message is brought to you by Apple Card. With Apple Card, you earn unlimited daily cash back on everyday purchases like groceries or merch or tickets to the game. Plus, it can be used anywhere MasterCard is accepted. No matter your team, no matter where you shop, Apple Card is here to help you tackle game day. Apply in the Wallet app on your iPhone today. Subject to credit approval. Apple Card is issued by Goldman Sachs Bank, USA, Salt Lake City branch. Terms and more at applecard.com.

• 22:44Speaker 02

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• 23:08Speaker 03

  At Humana, our Medicare Advantage plans are easy to understand and easy on your wallet. Like offering more benefits than you'd get from original Medicare alone. And including dental, vision, and hearing coverage in every plan. And the best part is, every plan has a $0 or low monthly plan premium, which makes it easier to save too. So this Medicare planning season, plan well with Humana. Learn more at gethumana.com. Humana is a Medicare Advantage, HMO and PPO organization with a Medicare contract. Enrollment in any Humana plan depends on contract renewal.

• 23:46Pablo Torre?

  What happens in sports, Dom, in real professional sports, right? It's like you narrowly win something and you're like, oh, I got away with one. And that's where I just laugh at what Mina does once she has survived a near-death experience like that.

• 24:02Speaker 05

  So I wrapped up taping, I was shocked. And then they told me the final is not going to be for two months. And then they told me, getting into the final, you get $200,000. If you win, you're chartered us.

• 24:20Pablo Torre?

  Right.

• 24:21Speaker 05

  If you win, they get a million dollars. My nonprofit, and I've been playing for them and I've raised money for them. I've done some stuff with them over the years and I played for them last time. It's called Seela and we could talk about them at some point in the show. But they are here in Los Angeles. They are a small nonprofit that is double their operating budget.

• 24:40Pablo Torre?

  It's wild.

• 24:42Speaker 05

  And so I thought, I remember in that moment thinking, okay, so if I win this silly game, they can, this is going to completely change the trajectory of... Sorry, I felt like I'm sounding self-aggrandizing, but it is a big freaking deal for them. All I have to do is outwork everyone else for two months. And just the mental calculus, I was like, do whatever it takes to win this. Don't just show up next time. I think the hardest part of studying for certain things, and I'd like to hear your guys' thoughts on this too, is not the actual studying, but knowing how to study. Does that make, especially for something like Jeopardy? It's like, what do you even do to prepare?

• 25:26Pablo Torre?

  It reminds me-

• 25:27Speaker 05

  That's the hardest part.

• 25:28Pablo Torre?

  On this show, I say all the time when Dominique's on, what his AOL screen name was to give you a sense of like, how committed a person can be to a goal and how to practice and prepare for something. Because that, to me, is still the gold standard. Is like, I'm going to do this, I need to do this, I'm going to be NFL-bound, whatever the number was. And I'm gonna-

• 25:47Speaker 04

  Yeah, I mean, it becomes your identity at that point, which is probably pretty unhealthy and unhealthy. Safe going forward, but me and as I did a little bit better than mine. I'm a sacrifice so I can save people. I was like, let me get this money and these girls.

• 26:01Speaker 05

  Also, I wanted to win. I wanted to win. I did want to win. I am very competitive. We we know that about myself. But Pablo was talking about how you had like the goal, you're making NFL. Yeah, like a lot of people want to be in the NFL, but like you not only do you have to be willing to put in the time, you actually had to figure out how to spend that time, how to optimize that time. And I think that was the hardest thing for me with Jeopardy prep is like even knowing what to do. I was fortunate in that I had two people, both named James, who I was able to connect with and lean on in this process early, who kind of helped me chart that path of studying because if it was just me, I don't think I would have known how to prepare for Jeopardy.

• 26:41Speaker 04

  It's a weird conversation to have, and as a sports person, I I think I could. It's a pretty good parallel because, yeah, it's about the focus and the commitment and the hard work. And then it's also about knowing the right things to do. Like I, when I was going to college, I I played a bunch of positions in high school. I got offers to play different positions in college and there were different positions that would have been more glorifying, a little easier, whatever. It's like, no, corner is the hardest position to play. It's the most difficult and it's most likely I can come in and start and make an impact. So I decided after scoring a bunch of touchdowns in high school, like I'm be a corner. And then I decided I'm gonna go to Maryland because I think their corners stink and I could I could start right away.

• 27:22Speaker 04

  And that was like the first decision for me that it felt like a series of decisions that made it feel less and less like fun football game I love and more like strategy, job, like optimization. And generally, one of my major critiques about sports and life right now is like our, all of our drive to like optimize everything. I got into it with one of my Silicon Valley friends because he tracks his sleep and calories and everything. And it's like, I was out there for the Super Bowl and we went to dinner and he was like, you gonna have me drinking. It's gonna up my sleep score.

• 28:03Speaker 04

  I was like, what? Your sleep score? We all have a good time, baby. Let's be happy.

• 28:08Speaker 05

  This is why Dominique and I are so similar. Don't you feel like? For me, balance in life is figuring out which things you want to optimize and which things you don't. And, and I think being so like dialed in, in other parts of my life allows me to be more relaxed in others. Do you feel the same way?

• 28:26Pablo Torre?

  Unfortunately, I too tell Liz, this is what being chill is. Me working really obsessively on a story we're doing to the detriment, admittedly, of just like focus on other things. For me, I think work ethic is one part of it, obviously. And certainly like the horsepower is another part of it, intellectual or physical. But the other one is just like obsession. And like being really [bleep] invested in trying to do this thing you set out to do. Like, I actually enjoy that process. It's not like I am miserable when I'm working on something that I care about. I'm like-

• 29:07Speaker 05

  But I think it is important to say that you are not like that in every other part of your life at all.

• 29:12Pablo Torre?

  Correct.

• 29:13Speaker 05

  Like, you're like a, yeah, socially, you're like a very relaxed person. Go with the flow. I don't know. I just think that, you know, there's definitely, Dominic, you're definitely right. Like, being obsessive about work can kind of drain some of the fun, for sure. But I think it also opens you up to be more relaxed in other realms of your life.

• 29:33Speaker 04

  The idea of like trade-offs in general is something that comes up for me in just about everything that I talk about and think about. And it's a helpful way to think about everything for me, at least right now. And I think you're making it clear that those trade-offs come. And I think while I'm listening to Pablo, so to be honest, as long as I'd known Pablo, I'd never seen that particular gear until this, this show that he wanted to launch. And I was like, oh, he's got a little bit of dog in him, I guess. Because Pablo's always like, clearly very smart and very talented writer, but was always the guy that was like, I'll go with it. I want to have fun, more jokes than like analysis when you're working with. And like that, that was Pablo, that was who he was.

• 30:17Speaker 04

  And then all of a sudden, it was like, and he was always available. Like, you call him, you want to hang out, Pablo's free. Pablo's ready. Pablo's going to dinner. Pablo's going to a game.

• 30:25Speaker 05

  You really are always available for dinner.

• 30:28Speaker 04

  And then, and it's like Pablo will call you, just want to talk. And then he started his show, then it was like Pablo's calling because he's trying to mine you for an idea. Pablo doesn't care about anything. Guys, we're talking right now, baby. We're talking right now, baby.

• 30:42Speaker 05

  All right. The feeling I despise most in life is feeling unprepared.

• 30:46Pablo Torre?

  Well, this is why, Mina, according to, of course, Ken Jennings, the host of Jeopardy, is quote, "out here buying Jeopardy buzzers on the dark web."

• 30:55Speaker 05

  So I mentioned that two Jameses were influential, so I want to talk about James Tyler in a second, who works at ESPN and who was massively important in this for me. But the first person I was introduced to was James Holtsauer, who is one of the most winningest contestants of all. I think he's won the most money, right? Like per game of all time. Arguably revolutionized the game with some of his tactics, was a little bit divisive. I love watching him play. I just, he's super cold, he's a sports better. Anyway, so my agent represents him. When I told him I was in the finals, he asked if I wanted to do a Zoom with him. He graciously spoke with me. And the number one thing we talked about was the buzzer, because it is the thing that

• 31:39Speaker 05

  trips people up the most in Jeopardy. It is the number one reason why people who are, come in knowing all the answers, lose. The way it works is you cannot buzz in too early or you get locked out. But you want to buzz in obviously faster than everyone else. It's like a weird little device. There's nothing like it. It's kind of like a video game controller. And buzzing is unlocked, I mean, you can buzz in when the lights go on or when Ken Jennings stops answering the question. So I felt that I was not great at buzzing. I still felt like that the first two games. And Jeopardy James gave me a link to a buzzer that I was able to buy for, I think, like about $80 on the internet somewhere.

• 32:22Speaker 05

  And it's a little different from the Jeopardy buzzer, it has a little less give, but it's a good practice tool. And then he also sent me a book by game Fritz Holznagel about buzzing.

• 32:32Pablo Torre?

  What the [bleep].

• 32:33Speaker 05

  It's an 80-page book about buzzing. So the other thing he did was he sent me a list of books that he thought would be helpful, which I can-

• 32:42Speaker 04

  Can we take a second, please, for the buzzer? A moment for the buzzer conversation? So- There is, to tie this back to the other thing that Mina was saying about like a level of preparedness and it's a very sports concept of like, give it your all, push through whatever difficulty, do the best you can, study hard. And you can honestly and like earnestly feel that you've done that without then also having the creativity and ingenuity to find a different level. So like the concept from a sports standpoint is like lift as much you can, when you're tired, keep running, like keep doing that. Like this is a different level

• 33:27Speaker 04

  of like, maybe everybody's doing it wrong. Maybe I can find another way to even work harder.

• 33:35Pablo Torre?

  There is a thin line between Mina has optimized Jeopardy and Mina's doing Spygate now? She's doing Jeopardy Spygate?

• 33:44Speaker 05

  Most Jeopardy contestants, I came to learn, a lot of them own this buzzer. People who are serious about Jeopardy buy the buzzer. I think everything I did, by the way, is completely of normal for people who are on regular Jeopardy. I think the only thing that makes it weird is that it's Celebrity Jeopardy.

• 34:00Speaker 04

  I think that the people who get on normal Jeopardy, this is their moment. This is their, like this is their chance of a lifetime, right? Like this is, they've been trying to get on Jeopardy, this is a chance for them to make a lot of money and have big success. People who are on Celebrity Jeopardy, it's like, hey, let me promote my movie and maybe win a couple bucks for charity.

• 34:19Speaker 05

  One of the Celebrity Jeopardy producers told me something the other day, which was, no one who competes on Jeopardy actually wants to be on TV. They just want to play Jeopardy. Which just cracked me up. It's not really even about the money for a lot of them. Like they just want to win Jeopardy. Um, cause they're all people who like love trivia.

• 34:35Speaker 04

  I just realized I would, sorry, I just realized that. I would not like Mina, the person who is Mina for Rec Sports. Like, that's just like, Mina came to the Rec Sports League with all the headbands and the fancy shoes. Shooting sleeves? Training all offseason to, to, to win the men's league title. And I'm like, what is this? Get a load of this stuff. And then actually just cooked.

• 35:05Speaker 07

  In the chain of Southern Lit, his library at Roanoke has the last novel he read, William Styren's Lie Down in Darkness. Mina.

• 35:12Speaker 05

  Louis Faulkner?

• 35:13Speaker 07

  That's correct, for 500. The Gobi Desert stretches 500,000 square miles between China and this landlocked country. Mina.

• 35:21Speaker 05

  What is Mongolia?

• 35:21Speaker 07

  Write again. Though associated with the bike, this company founded in 2012 offers a rowing machine that works 86% of your muscles in just 15 minutes. Mina.

• 35:32Speaker 05

  What is Peloton?

• 35:33Speaker 07

  Peloton also has a rowing machine. Arkansas jazzed up pickles by mixing in this drink that comes in packets. And all we can say is, oh, yeah. Mina.

• 35:41Speaker 05

  What is Kool-Aid?

• 35:41Speaker 07

  Right.

• 35:42Speaker 05

  I actually think, Dominique, there was a moment in that show that like, in the finals, that captured exactly what you're describing, where both Ike Barinholtz and Stephen Weber look at me. My agent, Mike, was like, well, I represent James Holthaus if you ever want to talk to him. Wow. So I actually connected with him a little bit, and he gave me some buzzer advice that I will not be sharing.

• 36:04Speaker 05

  Shout out, James.

• 36:05Speaker 07

  You've gone to great lengths, I think, to work on your buzzer technique, right?

• 36:08Speaker 05

  I also bought a buzzer.

• 36:09Speaker 07

  You bought a buzzer?

• 36:11Speaker 05

  It's different. Buzzer?

• 36:12Speaker 07

  You bought a buzzer?

• 36:13Speaker 01

  Buzzer? It's different. Buzzer? Bought a buzzer? It's different.

• 36:24Speaker 05

  Yeah. I think there, somebody else noticed there was a moment where they kind of showed the cross talk before going to break, where Ike was like, what the hell? Who's lovely. Ike's so lovely. The other thing James did was give me a list of books, which I have them all here.

• 36:38Pablo Torre?

  There's more?

• 36:39Speaker 05

  You know, books on kids books, books on like history, and then I, this is a book I found.

• 36:45Pablo Torre?

  The 1910s is what the title of this particular.

• 36:48Speaker 05

  These books were amazing. I found they're by the company that used to make Brainquest. Yeah, and it's just like a 500-page book about world history and US history. So, you know, this was all during the football season. I traveled to Monday night for NFL Live every game, and leaving football, you have football to watch, but when you're going to football, you don't have football to watch. So I would just read these books on my plane trips during the football season as I was preparing.

• 37:15Pablo Torre?

  Which is to say that all of this [BLEEP] paid off.

• 37:18Speaker 07

  Judy Garland is to Liza Minnelli as Melanie Griffith is to her. Ike. Who's Tippi Hedren? No, I'm sorry. Mina.

• 37:26Speaker 05

  Who's Dakota Johnson.

• 37:27Speaker 07

  That's correct. Judy is Liza's mom. Wrong direction, Ike. "Don't Get Mad, Get Everything" was a tagline to the film adaptation of this novel about a trio of spurned spouses. Mina.

• 37:38Speaker 05

  What is the first Wise Club?

• 37:39Speaker 07

  Right. "This psychic waitress pays a visit to Club Dead, where vampires like her BF Bill Compton can sip true blood." Mina.

• 37:47Speaker 05

  Who's Suki Stackhouse?

• 37:48Speaker 07

  That's correct, for 1,500.

• 37:50Pablo Torre?

  And I was looking, I was like, watching this happen, and I was looking like, when are we gonna get the heat check? When are we gonna get a Mina Kimes heat check? And anyone who has watched this show or done television with Mina Dominique knows what Mina's confidence really sounds like, because it sounds like this.

• 38:07Speaker 07

  It would be especially appropriate to use this Cockney greeting with California's Gavin Newsom. Mina.

• 38:13Speaker 05

  What is, hello, gov'na.

• 38:14Speaker 07

  Oh, man. It's like I'm in London. That's amazing.

• 38:17Speaker 05

  Okay, so that, that moment right there, at my watch party, everybody was like, Ken wants Mina to win.

• 38:25Speaker 05

  When he laughed at my stupid joke. That's true. I did want to mention the other thing I did to prepare, the other James, if that's okay. So my friend, James Styler, who edits soccer at ESPN, is a former Jeopardy competitor. He won a regular Jeopardy game. He is an absolute gem of a human being. And the last time I was on, he was so encouraging and he was like, if you ever want to train, his words, "we can train." And I was like, "It's over, it's fine." The second time, I remembered that and when I made it to the finals, I said, "Hey, so how about that offer?" So in that process, I discovered that a lot of Jeopardy competitors are in discords and James is friends with many other former Jeopardy winners, including some who have

• 39:06Speaker 05

  won quite a few, and that occasionally we'll get together to play old Jeopardy games. And he said, "We will play with you." So for about four hours a week, Saturdays when my kid was napping in particular, I would use my buzzer, so this is how I got good at the buzzer, actually. And they all had buzzers too. And we would do what they call Fight Club, which is play Jeopardy via Zoom. And I would get my ass kicked by these guys. And I'm not revealing all their names. They're like a data analytics person in Vancouver, a doctor in Toronto, it's just like, you know, a principal, like just normal, smart people with real jobs. And they would just smoke me in Jeopardy.

• 39:49Speaker 05

  And it was super dispiriting, but they kept saying, "Mina, like you are playing Jeopardy with like freaks. When you play with celebrities, it's going to be taking off the weighted vest." I didn't believe them until I showed up and realized that basically getting my ass kicked Rocky style for two months had actually made me stronger as a player.

• 40:13Pablo Torre?

  Turns out the first rule of Jeopardy Fight Club is not the same as the first rule of Fight Club Fight Club.

• 40:19Speaker 05

  I want to thank them mostly because they're just, they did it for no reason other than to help me and also just because, I mean, I'm sure they enjoyed beating my ass.

• 40:26Pablo Torre?

  It builds to a final Jeopardy that I gotta say, as a guy who has, because of his friends, Katie and Mina, and Tim Simons, by the way, who Mina destroyed en route to this championship, I've watched so much, so much celebrity Jeopardy. And this was- Again, a beautiful scene because of Mina's friendship and also deeply anticlimactic.

• 40:50Speaker 07

  It's the name of an 1873 novel subtitled "A Tale of Today: A Period of U.S. History" and a TV drama that debuted in 2022. 30 seconds, finalists. Good luck.

• 41:04Speaker 07

  Ike Barinholtz had $5,100 coming into final. What response did you think of? You wrote down, "What is the Gilded Age?" And that is correct. The Mark Twain novel, the historical period, and the new hit show for HBO. So you're going to be adding to that 5,100, Ike. In fact, you'll double it. 10,200.

• 41:22Pablo Torre?

  Okay.

• 41:23Speaker 07

  Will it be enough? Let's find out first, starting with Steven Weber, 10,700. Did he think of the Gilded Age? Things to come? No, unfortunately not. What did you wager, Steven? You'll lose 8,000, leaving you with 2,700. So this tournament comes down to Mina Kimes, 12,500. Did she come up with the Gilded Age? She has it. What did she wager?

• 41:48Speaker 05

  [bleep] eating grin.

• 41:49Pablo Torre?

  Ugh, just...

• 41:53Speaker 07

  8,910. Picture of $21,410. Mina Kimes, you're the winner of Celebrity Jeopardy All-Stars. Congratulations, Dominique.

• 42:04Pablo Torre?

  I just gotta say, the acting, the acting...

• 42:08Speaker 05

  Thank you, thank you. Okay. So folks have asked me about this, and so Cela had a watch party, and they sent me reaction videos from the party. And they were all like, "No."

• 42:22Speaker 05

  And I didn't realize until watching it back that I had... The producers all say, "Don't give it away if you know it." And I think I leaned into the not giving away a little too hard because they were genuinely upset in that moment.

• 42:33Pablo Torre?

  I was not fooled, Dominique. I was not [bleep] fooled.

• 42:40Speaker 04

  I mean, I guess maybe if I didn't know Mina and I was watching, I would say that's incredible acting. But I think I also like knew the results. So I was, I was watching to see the bad acting. And then after that, we saw a momentary glimpse of the true Mina before she went into fake humble.

• 43:00Pablo Torre?

  Yes.

• 43:01Speaker 04

  Cause that was the best one. She was like.

• 43:02Pablo Torre?

  Show that, zoom in.

• 43:04Speaker 04

  I might lose. Got you motherfuckers. Oh, look at me, I did it. It was ridiculous.

• 43:11Speaker 05

  You know what folks, people did notice was, cause they showed the whole final Jeopardy clips here. I wrote it down immediately, so I kinda gave it away. Cause I, you know, I didn't, and then I tried to do a fake thinking face for like 30 seconds, however long it is. Um, but the entire time I was thinking about, uh, after I won, I was already thinking about like, I got, I was like, I'm gonna call Sheila, the woman who runs it. And I was thinking about exactly what I would say on the phone call to tell her I won. Uh, because I knew I'd won and it was right. And I was just like fantasizing, I was pre fantasizing about the call that I would get to make in a half an hour.

• 43:46Speaker 04

  Can I say something else that I realized as we were talking about this is it popped into my head, listening to Pablo earlier and also listening to how Mina prepares that. We used to joke back when I played football is like, I'm glad football exists because I don't know what else X person would be doing if they didn't have football. I heard the same thing when Pablo was talking about enjoying the misery of like preparing for something. And I was like, I'm glad Pablo found his thing. Cause if he didn't find his thing, he would have found somewhere to put all that goddamn energy. And it may not have been great.

• 44:26Pablo Torre?

  It would have been a very different, uh, yeah, a very different bunch of people that would be willing to hang out with me, I think. Yeah.

• 44:34Speaker 05

  You know who wishes that Pablo had found something else? Oh, is the mentalist.

• 44:49Speaker 03

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• 45:16Speaker 02

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• 45:20Speaker 02

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• 45:43Speaker 03

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• 46:21Pablo Torre?

  How heavy is this trophy? Can we watch, can we just watch? Because every good sports movie, of course, culminates with a proper ceremony.

• 46:28Speaker 05

  I'm crying, actually. I don't know if they, they didn't really show it on the broadcast. I started crying.

• 46:33Speaker 04

  It is fly, though. I love that.

• 46:36Speaker 05

  It's the hardest I've ever smiled in my life.

• 46:38Speaker 04

  It's incredible trophy.

• 46:40Pablo Torre?

  I was gonna say.

• 46:41Speaker 04

  I asked you a couple of days ago, did you get to keep this?

• 46:43Speaker 05

  I, yeah, I haven't added it to my TV backdrop.

• 46:46Pablo Torre?

  Wait, you have it? You have it in your house?

• 46:48Speaker 05

  Yeah, I gotta get it. I'll go, one second. Maybe your listeners can debate for me. Is this too douchey to include in my TV backdrop? I haven't been able to decide.

• 46:58Pablo Torre?

  Hold on, put it square in front of the camera so we can fully...

• 47:01Speaker 05

  Put it on the pole.

• 47:01Pablo Torre?

  Take in.

• 47:03Speaker 05

  Is this douchey for Mina to add?

• 47:06Speaker 04

  You're asking a cornerback?

• 47:09Speaker 04

  Nah, put that [bleep] up. You want it, put that [bleep] up.

• 47:11Pablo Torre?

  Did you dent the J?

• 47:15Speaker 04

  It's like tilted.

• 47:16Speaker 05

  Oh my god. Okay, I fixed it. Probably my kid.

• 47:20Speaker 04

  You fixed it?

• 47:20Speaker 05

  Fixed. Yeah.

• 47:23Speaker 04

  Yeah, you gotta put that up, man. I mean, people put Emmys up behind them. This is...

• 47:28Speaker 05

  Well, I do that because everybody does that at ESPN.

• 47:30Pablo Torre?

  I've never seen this before. This trophy has three different punctuation marks.

• 47:36Pablo Torre?

  Question mark, exclamation point, and hyphen in All Stars. It is an incredible, I think singular aesthetic. It is so blinged out.

• 47:46Speaker 05

  There's a lot going on. I haven't won a trophy this big in a long time. And I gotta say, it felt pretty good. I also got to do the giant check yesterday, guys.

• 47:55Speaker 04

  I was gonna say, is there a giant check?

• 47:57Pablo Torre?

  Oh, that's nice.

• 47:57Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 47:58Speaker 04

  That's fun.

• 47:58Speaker 05

  It's a pretty big moment for me, too. Yeah, the ABC in L.A. here came out. We did like a little check presentation. The check was signed by Ken Jennings, which doesn't feel like legal, but it's fine.

• 48:12Speaker 04

  Oh, I love the giant front check.

• 48:14Speaker 05

  For people who live in L.A., CILA is like truly one of the most amazing organizations. It's the tiniest nonprofit. They have like five employees and hundreds of volunteers. And they run drop-in centers for homeless folks around Los Angeles in East L.A. They're gonna get to open an entirely new one now with this money. They're buying a van, emergency care, food, hygiene kits, things like that. In the past, I had helped them raise money to have a mobile shower program. But they also do all this like nerdy stuff that people don't talk about when you think about the housing crisis in Los Angeles. For example, to apply for housing, and something they do is they help a lot of people who want to apply for housing, you need an ID. To need an ID, you need a birth certificate. To need a birth certificate, you need an address.

• 48:57Speaker 05

  And so they're able to help people actually like get on computers, do this like paperwork, have an address that they can have it sent to. And that's the kind of stuff nobody talks about that's really, really important, those services. And just getting to see them do that firsthand and knowing what they're gonna do with the money has been just one of the most magical experiences of my life. So CILA, please, check it out. CILA Neighborhood Homeless Coalition in Los Angeles. Thank you.

• 49:22Speaker 04

  Pablo didn't follow up because he's a [BLEEP] journalist, but you said that it's been a long time since you won a trophy this big. What was the other trophy?

• 49:30Speaker 05

  The second grade spelling bee trophy, which has come up recently.

• 49:33Speaker 04

  Transition.

• 49:34Speaker 05

  Because I got that photo, yeah, because I'm hosting the spelling bee next week.

• 49:36Pablo Torre?

  Dominic hosting the show.

• 49:38Speaker 04

  I mean, I do everything, man. What can't I do?

• 49:41Pablo Torre?

  You know what, guys? The word that I want to spell at the end here is F-R-I-E-N-D.

• 49:53Pablo Torre?

  S-H-I-P?

• 49:55Speaker 05

  It's beautiful. It's really good. Thank you.

• 49:58Speaker 04

  Bye.

• 49:59Speaker 05

  Bye, guys. I gotta go.

• 50:01Speaker 04

  All right, see ya.

• 50:11Pablo Torre?

  This has been Pablo Torre Finds Out, a Meadowlark Media production. And I'll talk to you next time.

• 50:38Speaker 07

  State Fair food is getting smaller and pricier.

• 50:41Speaker 03

  We'll have room for fried cookies.

• 50:43Speaker 07

  Okay, you'd never overspend on food. What's your deal?

• 50:46Speaker 03

  What's his deal? He went to Metro and got $450 in value on the new Samsung Galaxy A37 5G for free and no activation fees.

• 50:54Speaker 07

  Free phone? Oh, sign me up.

• 50:57Speaker 03

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• 51:00Speaker 05

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• 51:08Speaker 02

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• 51:31Speaker 03

  At Humana, our Medicare Advantage plans are easy to understand and easy on your wallet, like offering more benefits than you'd get from original Medicare alone and including dental, vision, and hearing coverage in every plan. And the best part is, every plan has a $0 or low monthly plan premium, which makes it easier to save, too. So this Medicare planning season, plan well with Humana. Learn more at gethumana.com. Humana is a Medicare Advantage, HMO, and PPO organization with a Medicare contract. Enrollment in any Humana plan depends on contract renewal.