Ep. 776: Sea Otters, Skunks, and Brain Matter | MeatEater Radio Live!

Hosts Brody Henderson, Steven Rinella, and Cory Calkins, talk with Heather Douville about her new MeatEater show, Our Way of Life, attempt to defend some Indefensible Laws, chat with Guy Groenwald about the state of the skunk fur market, and lay down judgement on a Hot Tip-Off showdown. Watch the live stream on the MeatEater Podcast Network YouTube channel. https://www.youtube.com/@MeatEaterPodcastNetwork Subscribe to The MeatEater Podcast Network https://www.youtube.com/@MeatEaterPodcastNetwork MeatEater on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/meateater, Facebook https://www.facebook.com/StevenRinellaMeatEater/, Twitter https://twitter.com/MeatEaterTV?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor, and YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@MeatEaterPodcastNetwork See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 1:15Steven Rinella?

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• 1:52Speaker 03

  Smell us now, lady. Welcome to Meat Eater Trivia. Meat Eater Podcast.

• 2:14Speaker 04

  Hey everybody. Welcome to Meat Eater Radio Live. It's 11 a.m. here at Meat Eater HQ in Bozeman, Montana. That's 9 a.m. on the sea otter infested waters surrounding Prince of Wales Island. I'm your host, Brody Henderson. I'm joined today by the man every elk in Montana fears the most, Cory Calkins.

• 2:33Steven Rinella?

  I thought that was my cue.

• 2:34Speaker 04

  Nope, that's not you. We also have a very special co-host today that some of you might even recognize. That's right, Steve Rinella is back in the house. Welcome back.

• 2:43Steven Rinella?

  Thank you, man. It's always fun to be here.

• 2:45Speaker 04

  Been a while. We got a big show today. We have Heather Douville. She's going to talk to us about her life up in southeast Alaska and a couple of her new Meat Eater shows. Me, Steve and Corey are going to lay out some indefensible laws that we're going to defend anyway. We've got some primo hot tip-offs out of Wisconsin and some advice for husbands and fathers during hunting season. And in the spirit of full disclosure, this is not actually live. We won't have any live chat feedback. And the reason for that is because the day we were supposed to record live, Phil's going to be out of town nerding out

• 3:28Speaker 04

  on video games. Phil, you want to tell everyone what's so important that you've got to miss a live recording?

• 3:33Speaker 05

  Yeah, it sounds like you're making that up, but you're not. When you're watching this, Randall and I will be on a plane on our way to Nashville, Tennessee, going to Buck Fest 2025. And Buck Fest is also the grounds for the world championships of big buck hunter. So Randall and I will be there documenting it, making some video content that you guys can look forward to soon.

• 3:55Speaker 04

  A bunch of non-

• 3:56Steven Rinella?

  Phil looks good with that black backdrop.

• 3:57Speaker 04

  I know.

• 3:58Steven Rinella?

  Go back to that for a minute.

• 3:59Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah.

• 4:00Speaker 04

  Good job.

• 4:00Speaker 05

  Overemphasizing that.

• 4:02Steven Rinella?

  If he wasn't married, he'd be, he'd be cleaning up right now.

• 4:04Speaker 05

  Oh, Steve, don't.

• 4:06Speaker 04

  Are you, have you played Big Buck Hunter, Phil?

• 4:09Speaker 05

  I, I was never a big like light gun. Like I didn't play, I didn't have a Nintendo, so I never played Duck Hunt. And I, I didn't spend enough time in bars before I had a kid to be, to get really good at Big Buck Hunter. So it was never a, so this is a whole learning experience for me. I'm, I'm excited to check it out.

• 4:22Steven Rinella?

  Is Randall good at Big Buck Hunter?

• 4:24Speaker 05

  Uh, I don't believe so. I know Cal, Cal holds some pride for his, his bug hunter skills.

• 4:30Steven Rinella?

  I used to forbid my kids from playing in it.

• 4:32Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 4:32Steven Rinella?

  And my buddy Jimmy Doran had a pizza shop and he had that in there and he knew I hated Big Buck Hunter because I thought it taught bad ethics. And I'd come in there, the first thing he'd do is hand my kids rolls of quarters. Just to antagonize me.

• 4:44Speaker 04

  Yeah, I'm ambivalent towards it. Um, I imagine you're going to see a bunch of non-hunters pretending they're hunters there, Phil.

• 4:50Speaker 05

  Oh, for, I mean, yeah, I, most likely, uh, Randall kind of, I think is planning on dressing the part. I think he wants to go in full first light camo and just hang out. So we'll see how that goes. But I, we've talked to the guys putting it on and, and they say it's a mix of, of hardcore, real hunters and people who have never touched a gun in their life. So I'm, we're excited to meet all the people that are going to be there.

• 5:10Speaker 04

  Well, have fun.

• 5:10Speaker 05

  Thanks, Freddie.

• 5:11Steven Rinella?

  Looks good with that black backdrop.

• 5:12Speaker 04

  Um, all right. Before we get into the meat and potatoes of today's show, I need to let everyone know that the newest edition of our audio original book series, Meat Eaters, American History, The Hyde Hunters, 1865 to 1883, releases next Tuesday on October 14th. You can preorder it now wherever you get, um, audiobooks, Audible, Apple Books, wherever you can get them. Um, Steve, you want to give folks ideas, an idea of what to expect from Hyde Hunters, like some,

• 5:45Steven Rinella?

  I will.

• 5:46Speaker 04

  Some titillating tidbits about the life of a Hyde Hunter?

• 5:49Steven Rinella?

  Yep. For, for those of you that have listened to or follow our Meat Eaters, American History series, um, we've been focusing on different eras of commercial market hunters. So we did the long hunters. Which were the professional deer skin hunters, most notably Daniel Boone and his colleagues. Then from there, we jumped up to the mountain man era, which was the Rocky Mountain Beaver Trappers. Um, big names from that era would be Jim Bridger, John Colter, Jed Smith. And that volume tracked up to 1840. So for the Hyde hunters, we're jumping ahead to 1865. 1865 is the year that the Civil War ended.

• 6:29Steven Rinella?

  And we're covering the years 1865 to 1883, when the last 15 million buffalo on the American Great Plains were shot out by professional buffalo hunters, which we call the Hyde hunters. Um, very bloody time, very dangerous occupation. Even though those people are much maligned now and they're regarded as these great enemies of American wildlife. You have to begrudgingly, if, if, even if doing so begrudgingly, you have to acknowledge just an incredible uh, skill set. It sounds funny to say it, but an incredible skill set.

• 7:10Steven Rinella?

  And I hesitate to say it too, an unbelievable work ethic that, that, that propelled these guys out on the Great Plains to do, to do the great buffalo slaughter. So we, uh, we cast some shade on them. We talk about their motivations. They were products of the Civil War. Um, these are generally people that had no prospects in life. Uh, poverty was rampant. Um, and the, the American history pushed them onto the plains. Were they, were they killed 15 million buffalo and, and, and in a decade?

• 7:43Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 7:43Steven Rinella?

  Um, it's incre- it's an incredible story. Um, and then for now, we'll jump into whatever. We're, we're still debating what we're going to jump into next.

• 7:50Speaker 04

  You haven't decided yet.

• 7:51Steven Rinella?

  No, we might do something about the birds, the bird hunters.

• 7:55Speaker 04

  I know for a time you were thinking about whales, but you, you knew.

• 7:58Steven Rinella?

  No, not doing the whalers. I think that we might jump to, we might jump to Alaska during the Great Depression.

• 8:06Speaker 04

  For.

• 8:06Steven Rinella?

  Or sorry, Aladdin, no. It would be Alaska and we would cover possibly Klondike to statehood. Or we would cover the roaring twenties and end it at the stock market crash.

• 8:19Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 8:20Steven Rinella?

  And do about.

• 8:20Speaker 04

  Surrounding fur, right?

• 8:22Steven Rinella?

  The Alaskan fur trade during the during the real glory days when when huge amounts of cash were entering that state and coming into the hands of people who had never had a cash economy.

• 8:34Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 8:34Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 8:35Speaker 04

  Um, all right. So you've done three of these, Steve, the the long hunters, mountain men and hide hunters. And you can include the next one, too, if you want in this in this question I'm going to ask you. If you could go back in time and pick one of these eras and professions to like, go do, which would it be?

• 8:51Steven Rinella?

  The hide hunters.

• 8:53Speaker 04

  Yeah?

• 8:53Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 8:54Speaker 04

  That's surprising.

• 8:55Steven Rinella?

  Yeah. If I could do the, the, you know, if I could do the time machine thing, I've always said that I would like to go back to the first Americans to hit the Great Plains. Twenty thousand years ago, seventeen thousand years ago, whatever. Um, man, but if I was really sitting there and I had to hit the button, the go button, I might go back and go with Boone. Um, Daniel Boone, the first time he went through the Cumberland Gap and spent two years in Kentucky.

• 9:21Speaker 04

  Cause that was still new territory. Like the hide hunters weren't in like new territory necessarily, right?

• 9:27Steven Rinella?

  Like, no, no. When you get into the hide, we'll put it this way. This is something we point out a bunch in our hide hunter piece. There were hide hunters that killed ten thousand buffalo. There was an individual who killed ten thousand. Who lived to see Playboy magazine published. He lived to see the end of the Korean War.

• 9:49Speaker 04

  Automobiles.

• 9:50Steven Rinella?

  He lived to see the introduction of the Corvette.

• 9:53Speaker 04

  Wow.

• 9:54Steven Rinella?

  Nuclear subs. And he was fighting Comanches. While killing ten thousand buffalo on the Texas plains. You, it is this market hunting period that straddles, it perfectly straddles.

• 10:12Steven Rinella?

  What we think of as yesterday and what we think of as today.

• 10:15Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 10:16Steven Rinella?

  You know, it's a crazy era.

• 10:18Speaker 04

  Kind of makes, uh, living through the creation of the internet not seem like such a big deal.

• 10:23Steven Rinella?

  There were hide hunters who would, who lived to see the publication of a San County Almanac. And who live, and who experienced a person Theodore Roosevelt campaigning against market hunters become president.

• 10:39Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 10:41Steven Rinella?

  And.

• 10:41Speaker 04

  Crazy to think about that way.

• 10:42Steven Rinella?

  No, they like, they sat on the, they sat on the edge of something, man.

• 10:46Speaker 04

  Yeah. All right. So order that book and listen to it and, uh, Steve will figure out what the next one's going to be. Um, before we get into Heather's interview, you guys, uh, planning any big hunts that are coming up?

• 11:01Steven Rinella?

  I'm solid kid from here on out for a while.

• 11:03Speaker 04

  Me too.

• 11:04Steven Rinella?

  I got a, I got a month of hot kid action.

• 11:06Speaker 04

  Kid antelope, kid deer. Yeah. That's, that's fun though. That's my favorite.

• 11:10Steven Rinella?

  No, no, I wouldn't, I wouldn't have it any other way, man.

• 11:12Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 11:13Steven Rinella?

  All kids all the time. Speaking of kids, I put some little kitty waiters on your desk.

• 11:16Speaker 06

  Oh, I saw that. Thank you. Yeah. We'll use those. Go looking for crawdads.

• 11:19Speaker 04

  Corey, are you done, uh, archery hunting? Are you good? You, no?

• 11:22Steven Rinella?

  No.

• 11:23Speaker 04

  Keep at it till the bitter end.

• 11:24Speaker 06

  Man, it's only been a couple of weeks. We still got a few more here in Montana.

• 11:27Steven Rinella?

  He's like, kids? What kids?

• 11:28Speaker 06

  Well, my kid's just on the cusp of being able to come with me.

• 11:31Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 11:32Speaker 06

  He'll go out and toot on the bugle a little bit, but it's more of a nuisance than anything.

• 11:35Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 11:36Speaker 06

  Uh, so no, I'm going to get back out for.

• 11:37Speaker 04

  But you gotta bring them, man.

• 11:39Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah.

• 11:39Speaker 04

  You gotta bring them.

• 11:40Speaker 06

  Oh, he loves it. But yeah, no selfishly going out for myself.

• 11:44Speaker 04

  Any close calls with bulls yet?

• 11:46Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah. Yeah. I tried to get a couple of buddies into some elk that, uh, second week of the season. I guess it would have been the third week of September and we almost killed elk every single day. But they weren't like fired up like they typically are.

• 11:56Steven Rinella?

  Bull back yet?

• 11:58Speaker 06

  Nope.

• 11:59Steven Rinella?

  Have a draw.

• 11:59Speaker 06

  No drawbacks. Yeah.

• 12:02Speaker 04

  All right.

• 12:03Speaker 06

  Knocked a few.

• 12:04Speaker 04

  Let's, uh, let's get to the interview. I, I, I think Phil has a special drop here for Heather Du- Duville. Phil, you gonna lay that down?

• 12:12Speaker 05

  Yeah, I put it in the script and then I took it out because I didn't know if you guys wanted to listen to it.

• 12:15Steven Rinella?

  No, of course. Let's hear it, man. I mean, we'll, we'll rate it. We'll, we'll rate it and see.

• 12:19Speaker 05

  Well, I think this is one that I haven't played since you were last here, Steve.

• 12:22Steven Rinella?

  Oh, so you already, we've already heard.

• 12:23Speaker 05

  You've already heard it. It's the Fleetwood Mac one.

• 12:25Speaker 06

  Oh, yes.

• 12:26Steven Rinella?

  No, I'm not familiar.

• 12:27Speaker 04

  All right.

• 12:30Speaker 06

  Oh, listen to that bass.

• 12:46Speaker 04

  There we go.

• 12:46Steven Rinella?

  Okay. There it is.

• 12:48Speaker 04

  Nice. All right, for for those of you who aren't familiar, we're going to be talking to Heather Douville.

• 12:57Speaker 04

  Her traditional name, Heather, I apologize if I butcher this stuff. Trad- her traditional name is Kootink and she belongs to the Shankwadi clan, which is Eagle Wolf. Did I get it right?

• 13:12Speaker 04

  Okay, don't worry about it then.

• 13:14Speaker 07

  Pronunciation, but I appreciate you trying. Thank you.

• 13:18Speaker 04

  Well, you can tell us, let me get through this. I'm trying to get through this, Heather. Let me get through it. You you live on the ancestral lands of the Tlingit people in southeast Alaska. And Heather actively practices and shares the heritage and cultural traditions that have been passed down for 10,000 years. All right, so so tell us how you pronounce that stuff.

• 13:41Speaker 07

  Yeah, my traditional name is Kootink and I belong to the Shankwadi clan.

• 13:48Speaker 04

  It is a. I didn't do that bad.

• 13:52Speaker 07

  Yeah, you're you're on the right track.

• 13:55Steven Rinella?

  It'd be like if I called him Brady.

• 13:58Steven Rinella?

  If I call him Brady and he's like, well, it's actually Brody. And then I go like, well, I wasn't that bad.

• 14:02Speaker 04

  Right.

• 14:07Speaker 07

  Tlingit with a K, but it's like a T H L, Tlingit and.

• 14:13Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, well, Heather, do it like, do it, do it where you, because I I know you. Yeah, there's a way you say it, then there's a way you let people that wouldn't, that aren't familiar with the language say it like, but but do it like how you do it if you were talking to, if you were talking to an elder, you know, from your, from your people.

• 14:31Speaker 07

  Yeah, I would, I would say fling it.

• 14:34Steven Rinella?

  Okay, but then people, people that are just kind of hacking their way through, it's like a.

• 14:39Speaker 07

  They say clink it.

• 14:41Steven Rinella?

  Clink it, yeah.

• 14:41Speaker 04

  Got it. I'll try to get it right next time, um.

• 14:46Speaker 07

  Can't be confusing, thank you.

• 14:48Speaker 04

  Yep, um.

• 14:50Speaker 07

  You know what's pretty funny is, well, we're, we're gonna talk about the show, but when the team was up here, you know, our dogs only know fling it commands, so they don't know English.

• 15:00Steven Rinella?

  That's great, so no one else can tell your dog what's up.

• 15:04Speaker 04

  So if your dog's attacking someone and the, and that person tries to say, stop, sit.

• 15:11Speaker 07

  Yeah, you gotta yell at them and cling it. So the meat eater crew that was up here were learning all kinds of words.

• 15:17Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 15:18Steven Rinella?

  Clink it dog commands.

• 15:20Speaker 04

  That's nice.

• 15:21Speaker 07

  Heard the dogs out of the scenes and in the house.

• 15:26Speaker 04

  Um, Heather, I know you've been busy all, like all summer putting up fish and sea otter fur, um, and you, I think you've been out deer hunting already. Like what, what else do you, you got going on through the fall? What's the rest of the year look like for you?

• 15:41Speaker 07

  Yeah, this is really a, um, I think I was last joined in the spring, which is like the emergence of new life. And now we're entering fall, which is a quieter time and a more restful time. So I'm kind of grounding myself into a more balanced schedule. The salmon return, the leaves are turning, you know, it's getting colder. Uh, I did get a deer last month and I'm, one of my goals this, uh, fall and winter season is to practice my bark tanning.

• 16:16Speaker 04

  Mm-hmm.

• 16:17Speaker 07

  Skills. Um, so I actually got the deer and I tanned, I successfully tanned the hide.

• 16:24Steven Rinella?

  Oh, really?

• 16:24Speaker 07

  I have it here.

• 16:25Steven Rinella?

  Oh, you, you, you got it done already?

• 16:28Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 16:28Steven Rinella?

  Oh, wow.

• 16:29Speaker 07

  I have softened it a little, but you know, it's got a really.

• 16:33Steven Rinella?

  You kidding me?

• 16:33Speaker 07

  Swayed side. This is done with, um, tannin, so like a tree skin and a deer skin will make leather.

• 16:42Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 16:42Speaker 07

  And it smells really good and all of the.

• 16:46Steven Rinella?

  Huh.

• 16:47Speaker 07

  Um, ingredients that you use can just go right back into the earth. They're non-toxic, organic. So I, I was pretty proud. Um, this is my first.

• 16:57Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, man. Congratulations. That's awesome. That looks great.

• 17:00Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 17:01Speaker 04

  And you guys shoot those deer in the head so there's no bullet holes in that, in that hide.

• 17:06Speaker 07

  Yeah, we try to shoot everything in the head um to like for deer, we try to reduce waste.

• 17:14Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 17:15Speaker 07

  Because we eat the neck and we take the neck bones and make deer neck soup and um.

• 17:23Speaker 07

  I have a funny, I have a funny story about the first time I learned how to hunt deer.

• 17:28Speaker 04

  Lay it on us.

• 17:30Speaker 07

  Um.

• 17:32Speaker 07

  I had never shot anything in the body before because I just learned how to shoot everything in the head or like me right behind the ear. So we were hiking up and you know, I didn't learn how to hunt until I was almost thirty. So my dad gave me a rifle and I was, I hadn't missed yet. And I was like, Dad, what if I was gonna shoot a deer in the body? Because I know a lot of people from other areas, you know, shoot deer like in the side. I said, what do I do? And so he, we kind of stopped in on our hike and he told me. So I was like, okay. And I was, you know, pondering that. And we get up to this muskeg.

• 18:13Speaker 07

  And there's a huge buck right across looking at me and it's like a four by five, the biggest deer I've ever seen. He's like, oh, shoot, shoot. Yeah, okay. So I get ready and I'm aiming for its head. And I was like, well, I'm just gonna shoot it in the body because then I'll for sure get it. And I dropped down and I shoot it in the body and it runs away and he screams like, what happened? And I burst into tears and I go, I don't know. And

• 18:46Speaker 07

  he's like, what happened? And I was like, I tried to shoot it in the body. Well, he gave me a two twenty-two. So.

• 18:53Speaker 04

  So one of the ways.

• 18:54Speaker 07

  The only rifle I had until last year. And there's all this brush, right? And I just thought a bullet would blast right through brush. And he's like, you can never shoot through brush. You didn't tell me that part and I lost sleep for like a week. I could not stop thinking about missing that deer and it was big and shooting through brush and so the learning experience for me.

• 19:22Speaker 04

  Well, it seems like you've got the deer hunting thing figured out now, though.

• 19:27Speaker 07

  Yeah, we try to skin them real close, but you don't want to skin them so close where you score the hide. So definitely take your time and, and you know, skin them nice if you're going to save the hides. And then you can bark tan and you know, it takes like a few days to

• 19:48Speaker 07

  like let the hair slip and then about a week to bark tan and it produces beautiful results. And so now I'm, I just mixed up this morning a, a big tote of bark tannins because I'm going to try to do a hair on bark tan on a bear hide that was gifted to me this spring.

• 20:09Speaker 04

  You, you need to make Steve some buckskin britches out of those things.

• 20:13Steven Rinella?

  I would like some buckskin britches.

• 20:14Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 20:15Steven Rinella?

  White ones.

• 20:15Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 20:16Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 20:17Speaker 04

  There you go. All right, Heather, um, you got a couple, couple new shows out on, on the Meat Eater Network. Uh, Our Way of Life, which really digs into how you and your dad live up there in Southeast Alaska and everything you do out on the land and out on the water. And that airs every Monday night at six on our YouTube channel, the Meat Eater YouTube channel. You got anything to say about the experience of making that show?

• 20:45Speaker 07

  Oh yeah, this was an incredible experience. I'm so grateful, um, for Meat Eater, you know, sharing, uh, my story. And I really think of it as not my story, but.

• 21:00Speaker 07

  Um, this was a way for me to share a story that's much bigger than mine um for our culture and you know, the people that came before me and also for youth. So there's going to be a place now where you can look up, you know, about sea otter hunting or processing a seal and find information whereas previously, um, there hasn't been a lot of

• 21:25Speaker 07

  documentation on these processes.

• 21:27Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, I think it's one of the coolest things we've done a long time. It's great. It's awesome.

• 21:34Speaker 07

  This, the first episode launched um last night and

• 21:40Speaker 07

  I've just received an incredible amount of messages and phone calls and just all the love um that I'm feeling from friends, family, and people that I don't know, you know, from all over is really overwhelming. I didn't really know what to expect. I was kind of having a heart attack like this week, nervous about it um. But I felt nothing but love and support and um, I really, you know, I have a ten-year-old niece and she, you know, goes on social media and she talks about Taylor Swift and all these influencers, right? And I,

• 22:25Speaker 07

  I really wanted um youth to be able to go on social media, go on YouTube and see, you know, youth from here and see people like them and people they know um practicing their culture and not thinking that you have to be like somebody else to be, you know, on YouTube or on social media and and you can just be yourself and we are ourselves, you know.

• 22:55Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 22:56Speaker 07

  Literally talked about having the runs on our first episode.

• 23:03Speaker 07

  He's like, I forgot the cameras were even there. So it's really funny. If you don't want to watch sea otter hunting, you could fast forward to five minutes in and catch a really funny scene with the relationship between me and my dad is pretty funny to watch.

• 23:19Speaker 04

  Yep, it's great. And you're, the other show that you're in, Mediator Sheds, are you in the shed right now?

• 23:27Speaker 07

  I am. I'm in my fur shop. I spend a lot of time in here, the fall and winter months. And that was such a fun episode.

• 23:40Speaker 04

  That's where you do all your, all your working on furs, like all the stuff you make? Yeah.

• 23:46Speaker 07

  Yeah. So previously, I did get the opportunity to share this on sheds, which I wish I would have. Let me grab this. So

• 23:58Speaker 07

  my friends showed up with my dad last year and started building me this shed. So previously I was working out of my two spare bedrooms and my kitchen. So my whole house was full of supplies and machines and all kinds of stuff for working on furs and my friends and family have been so incredibly generous and and showing up and building me this space and I love this space. But until last year, I sewed everything by hand. So this was my

• 24:33Speaker 07

  thing that I carried everywhere.

• 24:34Speaker 04

  That was your equipment?

• 24:36Speaker 07

  Yeah. So I have a little nail clipper for threads. You could take it on an airplane, skin sewing needles, my thimble that I've been using since I was 12. You could see I reinforced the pad like three times.

• 24:52Speaker 07

  And so I wanted to also encourage people, like, you don't start like this with the shed, Barbie shed. You know, I started going by hand. Every item I made by hand, it took hours and I was working out of my house. So this, this feels surreal. I can't believe I have this shed.

• 25:15Speaker 04

  Great.

• 25:16Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 25:17Speaker 04

  Um, all right. Well, well, thanks for checking in with us, Heather. It was great talking to you and hope you have a good fall and and good winter.

• 25:26Steven Rinella?

  Thank you, Heather. Congratulations on that skin, man. That looks that looks incredible. I'm jealous of that. I gotta, I gotta check that out.

• 25:32Speaker 07

  Thank you. Yeah. All right.

• 25:35Steven Rinella?

  Talk to you soon.

• 25:36Speaker 04

  Take it easy. Thanks, Heather.

• 25:39Speaker 01

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• 26:07Steven Rinella?

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• 26:46Steven Rinella?

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• 27:24Steven Rinella?

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• 27:56Speaker 04

  Up next, we've got a segment, we've done a time or two in the past called indefensible laws, where we're going to make the case for passing fishing game laws and regulations. But some folks might consider indefensible, but those folks are wrong because we're going to defend them and make a case for them. So Corey, you're, you're up first.

• 28:15Speaker 06

  Oh gosh, okay.

• 28:16Steven Rinella?

  Just cut, cut this one out, Phil.

• 28:19Speaker 04

  Why?

• 28:20Speaker 06

  Well, this is coming from a

• 28:22Steven Rinella?

  Don't even float the idea. Don't even float the idea.

• 28:25Speaker 04

  I've heard Corey say this a number of times, so he's got to make a case for it.

• 28:28Steven Rinella?

  Don't give it air.

• 28:29Speaker 06

  Yeah, this is coming from a very disgruntled, born and raised Montana here in a room surrounded by

• 28:34Steven Rinella?

  I hope the FCC cracks down on you.

• 28:37Speaker 06

  Other states.

• 28:39Speaker 06

  But I'd love it if game agencies, whatever state you might be in, and I think a lot of, you know, natives to their states would agree that some of these once or more than once in a lifetime tags, maybe should be given to those native residents instead of just, you know, the folks who just moved in six months ago, to be able to apply for some of those resident tags.

• 29:01Steven Rinella?

  If you've been like, if you did like, like, let's say like 20 years in the state, you're cool.

• 29:04Speaker 06

  Hmm.

• 29:06Speaker 04

  Or if there's like

• 29:07Steven Rinella?

  Cumulative.

• 29:08Speaker 04

  Or let's say there's like

• 29:09Speaker 06

  Your kids are in this boat.

• 29:11Speaker 04

  Let's say there's like five elk tag, bull elk tags available and it's like special hunt special, like maybe like one of those for a native or something.

• 29:20Speaker 06

  No, well, sure. Yeah. I'm, I'm really thinking like some of these critters that, you know, somehow they're not growing as fast as other animals like moose.

• 29:28Steven Rinella?

  Moose, sheep and goat.

• 29:30Speaker 06

  Bighorn sheep, the numbers are just going down.

• 29:32Steven Rinella?

  I'm into it. I just think you're cutting it a little like, I think that like 20 years is cool.

• 29:37Speaker 06

  But as Brody alluded to, maybe just having like a hard percentage of those go into a certain group of people in a bucket. And I don't know, you know, obviously you have to prove.

• 29:49Steven Rinella?

  The twenty year bucket.

• 29:50Speaker 06

  You know, what hospital you were born in or whatever.

• 29:53Steven Rinella?

  It's like you get kind of entering into like, it just gets a little hard to control, you know, if it's twenty years, it's cool, right?

• 29:59Speaker 06

  It's easy. It's just getting hard to draw those tags. I mean, I, I could see myself never been able. Oh, but it's just getting harder and harder and harder and harder.

• 30:07Speaker 04

  By degrees, though, like, how much harder is point oh four percent versus point oh two five percent?

• 30:13Speaker 06

  Oh, right. Well.

• 30:14Steven Rinella?

  Twice.

• 30:16Steven Rinella?

  No one thinks about it like that.

• 30:17Speaker 06

  No, no.

• 30:18Steven Rinella?

  When you're looking at the oh, oh, oh, and you're like, ah, shit, they're all the same. Like, they're not all the same.

• 30:22Speaker 04

  No, no.

• 30:23Speaker 06

  And my problem was I just didn't buy bonus points when I was guiding. I didn't think I'd ever leave the guiding industry, so there was.

• 30:30Steven Rinella?

  Sounds like someone, maybe there should be a law that you, if you screw up and don't play the game, you should be just out.

• 30:36Speaker 06

  Yep, well.

• 30:37Speaker 04

  Or maybe NATO should start accruing bonus points at birth.

• 30:41Speaker 06

  That'd be nice.

• 30:42Steven Rinella?

  For a while, you could buy your kids bonus points in Montana. So my kids, my kids, my, my two year old had two bonus points.

• 30:48Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 30:49Speaker 06

  And they got rid of that.

• 30:50Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, but they kept the points.

• 30:52Speaker 06

  That's nice. Yeah.

• 30:54Speaker 04

  All right.

• 30:54Speaker 06

  Anyway.

• 30:54Steven Rinella?

  Now, what I've been telling my kids, here's the deal on this one. I've been telling them, because I'm doing all this. If you draw, when you start drawing moose, sheep and goat, and I don't get to come with, you're paying me back for all that shit going back to when you were a baby.

• 31:11Speaker 06

  Mm hmm.

• 31:12Steven Rinella?

  You know what I'm saying?

• 31:13Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah.

• 31:13Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 31:14Speaker 06

  Yeah, you get to go along. No, I got to go with my dad on his most likely once in a lifetime moose hunt a few years ago. It was amazing.

• 31:20Steven Rinella?

  That's great.

• 31:21Speaker 04

  Steve doesn't seem convinced, but I, I, I'm.

• 31:24Steven Rinella?

  I drew, I drew goat, you know, I'm glad I drew goat.

• 31:27Speaker 04

  True. All right, Steve, what, what do you got for us?

• 31:31Steven Rinella?

  Well, you know, I've been pondering this, man, and I was gonna do one, but I can't articulate it. The other day I saw, uh, one of those Tesla trucks with a, with a hat, uh. He kind of had a Yosemite Sammed out where he had like, some like adventure stuff.

• 31:45Speaker 06

  Oh, no.

• 31:46Steven Rinella?

  And he had a, he had one of them rod tubes mounted to the, and I was thinking like, I could let it slide. I tried to just, I tried to be like, I didn't see that. I didn't see that. But I can't get it out of my head. I felt like something died or something was born in that moment.

• 32:02Speaker 06

  Died for sure.

• 32:04Steven Rinella?

  But, yeah, something died or was born, but that's not my rule.

• 32:07Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 32:08Steven Rinella?

  Because I haven't thought of what the law would be. My law, and it's totally defensible.

• 32:12Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 32:14Steven Rinella?

  I'm not a big like, you know, I'm a states rights guy generally, right? And I'm not for like the man coming down and, you know, busting everybody's heads about stuff. I think a good role for the federal government, a good use of, of Trump's time would be that he comes in and he says, he comes in and he says, Hunter's orange laws going forward is a hat. I don't care.

• 32:42Speaker 04

  Executive order.

• 32:43Steven Rinella?

  Where you're from.

• 32:44Speaker 04

  Yeah. I like it. I like it.

• 32:48Speaker 06

  Yeah, I agree with you on that one.

• 32:49Steven Rinella?

  So that no matter where it's like during general firearm.

• 32:54Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 32:55Steven Rinella?

  During general firearm, not special seasons, during general firearm, whatever your version of that is. Orange hat, not all the vest, the 400 inches. Then you're like, you got your orange vest on, but then you got your binal harness on, then you put your backpack on. You're like, well, technically I don't have 400 inches because it's all, and you're all worried, a hat. Wyoming.

• 33:17Speaker 04

  Hat or vest.

• 33:18Steven Rinella?

  Wyoming, it's a hat.

• 33:20Speaker 04

  Yeah, minimal.

• 33:21Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, a hat. Have it be a hat.

• 33:23Speaker 04

  Yep. No, I, I agree.

• 33:25Steven Rinella?

  A hat or less.

• 33:28Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 33:30Steven Rinella?

  Idaho and Alaska have no orange law.

• 33:32Speaker 04

  Right.

• 33:32Steven Rinella?

  You shouldn't make them have an orange law. It's like you can't be more than a hat.

• 33:39Speaker 04

  Oh, I got you.

• 33:40Steven Rinella?

  That's what I meant to say.

• 33:41Speaker 04

  You're breaking the law.

• 33:42Steven Rinella?

  Kind of thinking about my law as I'm kind of like, I hadn't smoothed this all out the way I would have liked.

• 33:47Speaker 04

  Right, right.

• 33:47Steven Rinella?

  No more than a hat. If you're more than a hat, they're going to deprive you of federal funding. Schools, highways, nothing. Your state's cut off.

• 33:58Speaker 04

  Where's hot pink fall into this whole law?

• 34:00Steven Rinella?

  No hot pink. My daughter had made me order a hot pink vest. I send it back. I hope she gets a ticket. I hope she gets a ticket.

• 34:08Speaker 06

  Yeah, who's paying that one?

• 34:10Steven Rinella?

  I'm going to take it off her lawn mowing money.

• 34:12Speaker 04

  All right. By executive order.

• 34:15Steven Rinella?

  No more than an orange hat or else no federal funding for anything.

• 34:20Speaker 04

  Gotcha.

• 34:21Speaker 06

  Poor kids.

• 34:23Speaker 04

  We should get that on the ballot.

• 34:24Steven Rinella?

  Mm hmm.

• 34:25Speaker 04

  Um, all right. My, mine, uh.

• 34:29Speaker 04

  I don't know if it's defensible or not. Um, I don't think.

• 34:32Steven Rinella?

  No, do it. You're gonna get some, you're gonna get some people, you're gonna get some, yeah, what abouts?

• 34:36Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 34:37Steven Rinella?

  They're gonna be like, yeah, what about?

• 34:38Speaker 04

  Right.

• 34:38Steven Rinella?

  But just, just go with it.

• 34:40Speaker 04

  I, I, I don't think you should be allowed to shoot any mule deer does or antelope does any, anywhere, ever. Um, because like drought, winter kill, like those species are always like one year away from disaster.

• 34:54Steven Rinella?

  Always, always.

• 34:55Speaker 04

  Constantly. Um, and we've just seen places where killing mule deer does like over time has had disaster effects on, on like regional deer herds.

• 35:07Steven Rinella?

  Run with it. You're gonna have some naysayers, you're gonna have some what abouts, but run with it.

• 35:11Speaker 04

  Yeah, like if you need meat, a- and like I'm all for it, there are like he- here in Montana, you can shoot, I don't know, 10 whitetail does if you really want to.

• 35:22Steven Rinella?

  Mm hmm. If you got a good gas budget.

• 35:24Speaker 04

  Right. Um, but there, there's like ways to get meat. Um, and I, and I just don't think anyone needs to be shooting. Mule deer does is the main thing, but I think antelope too. Um, because they're, they're just like on the edge all the time. And in a lot of places, there's a general decline in antelope numbers. Like, tell us how you, about your antelope hunting experience back in the day, like what you guys used to do.

• 35:51Steven Rinella?

  They're back to it now. We used to go, we'd go out, two of us to go out east to the eastern part of the state where, cause you could get all the doe tags.

• 35:58Speaker 04

  Right.

• 35:59Steven Rinella?

  So.

• 36:00Speaker 04

  Yeah, how many doe tags would you guys?

• 36:02Steven Rinella?

  We would go out there, we would leave the truck. Our rule was you leave the truck, you come back with two. You leave the truck, come back with two. You leave the truck, come back with two. Every year.

• 36:11Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 36:11Steven Rinella?

  Two hunters, six antelope. Then, then all of a sudden it's like, whoa, there's not that many antelope around.

• 36:17Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 36:17Steven Rinella?

  Then it becomes hard to draw a permit and all of a sudden now they're like, hey, kill all the does you want.

• 36:22Speaker 04

  Right. Yeah.

• 36:23Steven Rinella?

  Two does per.

• 36:23Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 36:24Steven Rinella?

  And then let me, let me, let me crystal ball this. In a couple of years, it'll be, there's no antelope around.

• 36:31Speaker 04

  Exactly. Cause there'll be a bad winter.

• 36:33Steven Rinella?

  And it won't because they're over grazing. It won't be an over grazing thing. It'll be, it'll be a weather issue.

• 36:38Speaker 04

  Yeah. And a combination of shooting too many does for a few years in a row.

• 36:42Steven Rinella?

  No, I can see it. You're gonna have a lot of pushback on that one. It's not like mine.

• 36:45Speaker 04

  Yeah. Like I could kind of see an exception in my, on like private land for like crop damage tags where you get a bunch of animals concentrated in a small area, but that would like be the only thing. That I might be willing to to stretch it on. So there you go.

• 37:02Steven Rinella?

  Hmm.

• 37:03Speaker 04

  I wish we had a chat going on so people could be weighing in on.

• 37:07Steven Rinella?

  Don't get me started on that. How many years in a row I haven't drawn an antelope tag?

• 37:11Speaker 04

  I'll tell you a secret that people aren't going to like when they hear it either.

• 37:14Steven Rinella?

  Don't do that.

• 37:15Speaker 04

  No, no. I get I get antelope tags and don't antelope doe tags and I don't use.

• 37:20Steven Rinella?

  He's like the P to people. He's like the people in Florida that are buying all the bear draw stuff so they can sit out the hunt.

• 37:27Speaker 04

  Taking away opportunities from little kitties.

• 37:29Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 37:31Steven Rinella?

  He's like subverting the will of the state agency.

• 37:34Speaker 04

  Like that doe is going to live to have more babies.

• 37:37Steven Rinella?

  Come down on him, man. It's terrible.

• 37:40Speaker 04

  All right.

• 37:41Steven Rinella?

  Hmm.

• 37:42Speaker 04

  I'll get some hate for that one, but that's okay. All right. So we got another interview coming up.

• 37:49Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 37:49Steven Rinella?

  Glad the chat turned off.

• 37:51Speaker 04

  Only done it once or twice. Um, we got our next guest coming up. Guy Groenwald from Groenwald Fur and Wool out of Minnesota.

• 38:00Steven Rinella?

  Illinois.

• 38:01Speaker 04

  Illinois. Sorry. Steve told me Minnesota.

• 38:03Steven Rinella?

  Then I corrected myself.

• 38:04Speaker 04

  I didn't hear you. Um, and and I this is like, uh, fur and trapping related stuff. So Steve's Steve's going to roll with the interview. So here we go.

• 38:13Steven Rinella?

  As Brody said, we're joined today by Guy Groenwald from Groenwald Fur and Wool. Guy happens to be joining us, uh, from overseas. He's, um, he's over in Europe right now, but he we worked out the time zones and he's going to join us in the theme. What we're going to talk about is, uh, how there came to be, why there is, and, uh, an explosion in skunk. You heard it right. Skunk hide values, um, some historic highs right now being paid for skunk hides. And if you follow the fur markets, and I always do just because I think it's fun and I used to like trap a lot, um, and sell stuff. Uh, there's always these little bright spots in the fur markets and, um,

• 38:55Steven Rinella?

  and, uh, I can't think of any time in my life when there's ever been a bright spot around skunk hides, but Guy's gonna Guy's gonna explain it all to us. Uh, Guy, in your whole career, skunks have always been a marketable fur bearer, right? Like, there's always been some market for for for skunk fur. No, no, I mean, there was a time.

• 39:12Speaker 03

  Where I think we destroyed like 20,000 skins out of our freezer. We just, uh, we had stored them for 25 years and we thought it would never come back.

• 39:20Steven Rinella?

  Oh, it was that bad? Cause the reason I said that is I thought, and, and thanks for correcting me. I always thought there'd always been some level of novelty trade in skunk that, that kept the market alive.

• 39:31Speaker 03

  But it was, it was, you know, it was so small, you know, at one time that, you know, it just, you know, and we had, you know, some of the off grades, you know, you just, there was just no way to, uh, to market them in the, uh, novelty market that maybe took a couple thousand skins a year.

• 39:46Steven Rinella?

  Got it. Okay. Okay. So where, where a skunk price has been hitting lately and, um, and also, you know, before you answer that, maybe do this. When, uh, when you guys buy, you got, you guys buy from trappers, you buy from hunters, primarily trappers. When, when someone brings you a skunk, what are they bringing you? Like just, just explain that product. Cause people hear skunk fur and they think like, oh, it must smell bad, you know?

• 40:09Speaker 03

  Okay. So I'd like to differentiate. So the first thing is, is there is going to be for most skunks this year, very little difference between just bringing us the tail and bringing us the entire skin with the tail. There will be very little difference in price, if, if any. And the only reason as far as selling to my company that you would want to leave the, you know, the animal intact and not remove the tail is basically if it's a black hide or almost all black. Okay. Um, because then it'll be sold into the novelty business and, and even the last couple of years before the, uh, the tail business started, you know, the,

• 40:50Speaker 03

  the novelty business was kinda good. So, you know, skunks were starting to creep up as far as value. So right now, you know, there's still a, there's still a market for novelty skunks and, you know, with tails, um, uh, you, you know, most of them have to have tails and, you know,

• 41:04Speaker 05

  We have thousands of skunks that are placing out without tails because we can sell the tails, but we can't sell enough of the hides.

• 41:09Steven Rinella?

  And give me real quick, give me a for when the novelty trade is good and you have a well, and you have a properly put up skunk for what would that skunk, what would that skunk fur be selling for?

• 41:20Speaker 05

  You know, this maybe 20 bucks, something like that for a really nice one, you know, perfect tail, you know, big size, something like that.

• 41:27Steven Rinella?

  Okay.

• 41:27Speaker 05

  Um, but you know, the, the poorer ones, you know, the, the novelty business, you know, you just couldn't move them. So, you know, it could be a zero, but you know, before the, before the tail thing came, you know, you know, even a, a, a good one without the tail, you know, without, or with the tail, obviously for novelty was maybe $20.

• 41:42Steven Rinella?

  Okay, okay. And so when, when guys are, when you're buying just for the tails and we'll get to what, what's happening with them. But when you're buying just for the tails, you're buying, you want the tailbone removed.

• 41:54Speaker 05

  We want the tailbone removed and we want it like it's stretched and dried, just like any other, um, skin that you would stretch and dry, or like if you stretched and dried the, the skunk skin, you want to do the tail, you want to remove the fat. I mean, if you're going to catch a hundred skunks this year, I would buy a little borax. Borax works a little better than salt and you know, you don't typically put salt to dry a hide, um, as far as the fur, fur bearer goes, but a little borax or a little salt on a, on a tail is probably not a bad idea after you take the, uh, after you take the flesh off.

• 42:25Steven Rinella?

  So you're taking their, their, let's, let's just focus on the tails, I guess. So.

• 42:29Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 42:30Steven Rinella?

  You're taking a tail, you're cutting the ta, you're cutting the tail off at the base of the tail.

• 42:34Speaker 05

  Yep.

• 42:34Steven Rinella?

  You're pulling, you're removing the bone, then you're scraping all the excess fat and muscle off. So you scrape it down to clean leather, clean skin.

• 42:43Speaker 05

  Which should, shouldn't take you more than a minute.

• 42:45Steven Rinella?

  Take, shouldn't take you more than a minute. And then you're tacking it out. So you're opening that thing out on a board and tacking it out.

• 42:51Speaker 05

  Yep. Or putting a little screen across it or anything, just to kind of keep it flat and make sure that you go all the way to the tip because those longest white fibers are on the tip.

• 42:59Steven Rinella?

  Okay.

• 43:00Speaker 05

  So you want to make sure you go all the way to the end.

• 43:02Steven Rinella?

  Um, and then you dry it down. And if you want to add a little borax on there to help it dry, that's fine.

• 43:07Speaker 05

  That's, that's, that's probably a pretty good idea, especially, you know, if you're going to do any kind of quantity, um, you know, that would be a really good idea. You're not going to have any hair loss. You're not going to have. Any putrefication, you know, so it's just, it does a little nicer job because that leather on the, on the, on the tail is a little thicker and just it'll, it'll dry down faster.

• 43:24Steven Rinella?

  Okay, we'll get in a minute to what some of the, what, what I deem to be like pretty crazy prices being paid for skunks right now. Um, but, but, uh, explain to folks, where are these skunks going and why weren't they going there before?

• 43:38Speaker 05

  Well, they just, they, they're, they're going for, you know, Hasidic strimals, the, the hats, the Jewish hats, um, for, uh, orthodox Jews.

• 43:46Steven Rinella?

  Can you pull one of those up real quick, Phil? Are you, do we have that technological?

• 43:49Speaker 05

  Yeah, it'll take me a sec, but I can do it.

• 43:51Steven Rinella?

  Go ahead, go ahead, guys.

• 43:52Speaker 05

  And they're just, they're just, um, they just didn't use them. I mean, they, they find a, you know, a, a fiber that they really like. And, uh, they use it and it work, it works well. They want something that's real long. They want something that's kind of stiff. And, uh, they want something that kind of waves and, uh, uh, when they dance or, you know, when they move around and so. Yeah, that's, that's what they're looking for.

• 44:16Steven Rinella?

  We're looking at it all. We're, we're trying to pull a strimal up right now.

• 44:19Speaker 05

  Okay. I think we pulled one up last.

• 44:21Steven Rinella?

  There it is. Yeah. And so where, how are, how is the skunk, is the skunk, like, how is a tail being employed in that hat?

• 44:29Speaker 05

  It's, it's, they're just using the fibers.

• 44:32Steven Rinella?

  But how are they getting them in there? Like, like, like, what are they hooking it to?

• 44:36Speaker 05

  There, it's a, it's an intricate process. There's glues and there's interwoven and yeah, it's, it's a real. I mean, those aren't, you know, $300 hats, you know?

• 44:46Speaker 04

  How many, how many tails to make one hat?

• 44:50Speaker 05

  Uh, I think, um, for the really good ones, maybe 20, 16, 20 or something.

• 44:57Steven Rinella?

  Okay. And you say that's a $300 hat?

• 45:00Speaker 05

  No, I said it's not. I mean, it's thousands of dollars.

• 45:02Steven Rinella?

  Okay. So, but why did, why are some strimals 300 bucks and then some are thousands based on?

• 45:08Speaker 05

  I don't think anything's 300, but you know, some of them are definitely a couple of thousand bucks.

• 45:13Steven Rinella?

  I see.

• 45:13Speaker 05

  Cheaper.

• 45:14Steven Rinella?

  So that is like, i- is it fair to say, I, I don't want to put words in your mouth. Is it fair to say that this is sort of like a trend?

• 45:23Steven Rinella?

  That this is a trend with that style of hat?

• 45:26Speaker 05

  It is, but, um, you know, this is not like necessarily like, like a. Typical fashion trend. Um, you know, this could be used for, you know, for years. I mean, they've used that same hat that you had up there, you know, has sable tails in it and they've used sable tails for years and years. And there's and underneath it, they use Fisher tails and you know, there's they they and they've used them for years and years and years and they do though. Um, sometimes changed. They they do sometimes change the look a little bit. They go a different round. Sable tails get more expensive. They more use more of this or more of that. Um, but they, you know, they have used tails for, you know, years and years. They just haven't used skunk tails ever before.

• 46:06Steven Rinella?

  Is are most of these hats being sold in Hasidic communities? Uh, in the eastern US or are these being exported to Hasidic communities in in Europe and Israel? Like where are they winding up?

• 46:19Speaker 05

  They are there. Um, some of the some of the strimal is is all over, but probably the skunk is mostly just in the eastern US, you know, Brooklyn and Jersey.

• 46:28Steven Rinella?

  Got it. Got it. Got it. And then when people, i- if a if a consumer is buying a a strimal is um, is a consumer shopping just by look or are they shopping where like like if if you're if you selling, if you sell strimals, are you advertising it? Oh, as to its contents or is it people just buy it say like the look or they go in and saying like I want one with skunk. I want one with sable.

• 46:57Speaker 05

  No, I mean, there's, I mean, I I think even a pretty casual observer could see the difference and and the difference in quality. The longer hair. Um, just how much nicer it looks. I mean, I I've seen him in person and, uh, yeah, I mean, it's kind of the bigger the better, really.

• 47:12Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, but I my question was very clear. I what what I and you might not know the answer to this. Does the buyer, is the buyer aware of what fur it was, what fur was being used? Or do you think it's just you're just aware of the look and you like the look?

• 47:30Speaker 05

  I think they're they're more aware of the look.

• 47:31Steven Rinella?

  I see.

• 47:32Speaker 05

  Yeah, they're just they're just like, wow, that looks, you know, that looks a lot more.

• 47:36Steven Rinella?

  You know, whatever you want to call that. Yeah. All right. So let's talk about, let's talk about prices. Cause this is where it gets kind of interesting. Um, you know, I remember, uh, in the years I trapped, you know, I mean, like skunks, man, you know, three, four bucks. Right? So, uh, what could people expect this coming as we're coming into the, as we're coming into the fall, coming into the trapping seasons? What could people expect for a good skunk tail? And what makes a skunk tail good? We're going to be 50, 35 and 20, depending on how good the tail is. Okay. 50, 35 and 20. And 20. And then if it's, if it, if somebody brings in a tail and it's completely black, it's worthless.

• 48:21Steven Rinella?

  Okay. Now, if you'd left that on this, on a skunk, you know, and had the whole skunk and it was a nice skunk, you know, just a, maybe with just a little bit of white, you know, the skunk might be worth 15 bucks. Okay. Because that can be used as a novelty skunk, but if they, if it's, if it's got a lot of white on it, you might as well just chop it off. Hmm. Okay. So what, what makes, when you say a lot of white, like try to help someone understand. So if they're looking at the totality of the tail. And they're seeing that like 50% of that tail is white. Where does that sit? That's probably, that's probably a $50 skunk. I mean, if it's, if it's, but the only thing is like, sometimes we have to look at a few other things like, um, the ends.

• 49:04Steven Rinella?

  They could be like, it, it sort of looks like the, the fibers are like cut off at like three inches. Yep. That, that could, that could also mean it's, it's not, uh, worth anything. Can you see me pretty good? Uh, I can see a little bit. That's, that's a probably a, that, that would be, you know, 30, 35 bucks probably. Okay. That's a pretty nice, that's a pretty nice. That's a 35. Ooh.

• 49:27Speaker 06

  This one kind of feels like a $7 tail.

• 49:31Steven Rinella?

  Now we're like, what are we looking at now? 35? I, I, that, yeah, I'd say maybe, maybe, maybe even a little better than that. All right. Now we're getting somewhere. Yeah, they're all, yeah. Dude, I gotta tell you, man, if I was, if I was still, uh, if I was still just like a Michigan kid with a bunch of traps, dude, I would be going nuts. I would be going nuts this fall. Yeah. Well, you know, we, I'm, I'm certain that. You know, there's going to be more more skunks trapped this year. So. You know who's getting real excited right now is uh turkey hunters because. Yeah. Because like all those with fur prices being down for a long time. Sure.

• 50:11Steven Rinella?

  And you see these explosions of possums, skunks, raccoons, and you see like declines in in in uh ground nesting bird populations. That line up with those explosion and midsize predators, small midsize predators. It could be pretty good news for birds too. Um if there's some interest. What other uh what what? Oh, sorry. If you trap skunked, you know, you're gonna you're gonna catch all those other items as well. Yeah. You know, skunks, possums and raccoons. And you're gonna have an easy time getting permissions when you go and say, can I trap skunks? They're probably gonna be like, uh huh. Well, uh, gi- give us another, give us a quick little snapshot. Last, last thing we'll hold you here for.

• 50:50Steven Rinella?

  Give us a snapshot of of fur market in general, like, like going into the going into the the twenty five, twenty six season. What's the, what's the forecast? I think, I think I would start with skunk, actually. And I mean, the the biggest question we get asked by everybody is this thing gonna last? Okay. And I I think it's very similar to the beaver market, you know, three years ago when the beaver price went way up. Um, you know, I I think that we all thought there is no way. We knew what the usage was. It's a very good market. The beaver, you know, hat market is still very good. It's just that trappers went out and caught way more than we possibly thought they were gonna catch. Okay.

• 51:30Steven Rinella?

  And so the the market got a little depressed. I, you know, there's, there's two types of markets that go down. One is because nobody's using the product. And one is because they're producing too much. I mean, I like, I'm much more, I like a market that's, you know, being produced too much rather than a a market that's not being used because it means I can still sell it. Um, so it'll, it'll, I think the skunk thing, you know, will start, certainly start out hot. We need a lot of skunks. And uh, we'll just see how aggressive trappers are. And if they're super aggressive, um, you know, um, if you have extra skunks, you know, it's stunt tails. What do you do with them? You know, nothing. So, um, you know, we'll figure it out as we go, but for for right now, we'll start off hot.

• 52:08Steven Rinella?

  Um, I think, uh, last spring, you know, when we ended up, you know, buying the, you know, we run all our routes for beaver, which is, you know, into, you know, April and May, um, the market.

• 52:18Speaker 01

  Was very difficult, you know, we couldn't hardly sell a muskrat in April, May. We had a very difficult time selling raccoon in April, May, China's market because of tariffs. You know, the, the economy there was, was horrible. Um, you know. All those items, wild mink, I mean, you, you just didn't hardly want to buy it. You know, the guys brought their beavers. They had trapped those and that market had gone down. Um, so you, you were buying all this stuff or you, and you couldn't sell any of it. Um. So compared to what the market ended up last year, you know, if you take those prices, which were, you know, which were, I'll acknowledge they were pretty bad. I mean, I, I would say almost every item is up. Um, you know, wild mink will.

• 52:59Speaker 01

  You know, certainly they'll be double what they were last year. I mean, they're still not going to be great, but, um, you know, you, you can probably see some $12 males, which is, you know. You know, much higher than it was last year. I would say muskrats, you know, they were, they were unsalable, you know, at one time last year, they're, they're definitely stronger. We've sold a few rats recently. Um, heavy raccoon, um, you know, the semis are not so great, but you know, some of the heavies, you know, there's, it's just an item that's not produced that much anymore. You know, Wisconsin, Northern Iowa, Southern Minnesota, Nebraska, Dakotas, you know, that coon is still, is still a bit in demand. So yeah, I mean, I, I, I'm a little bit more positive than I was maybe even at this time last year.

• 53:42Speaker 01

  Um, as far as, um, the market on most items, coyote market is still, you know, very, very difficult. Um, but most items, there's certainly going to be a market for. And, uh, you know, go out and trap them and, uh, you know, if you're trapping skunks, you know, you might as well. Uh, you know, trap some of the other stuff, you know, some of the, you know, raccoons, you know, you obviously, you know, look for the better stuff. Um, you know, you know, it's the, the stuff with holes, the stuff that's discolored, you know, things like that are going to have very little value. But, uh, you know, most stuff will, most things will be, you know, a little better than last year.

• 54:15Steven Rinella?

  Okay. Last, last question. Uh, are there, are going to, are there going to be $1,000 bobcats again this year in the right places?

• 54:21Speaker 01

  Uh, yeah, sure. I, I would say so. Yeah. Yeah. Bobcat market, we're, you know, we're pretty well sold out of, uh.

• 54:27Steven Rinella?

  A better Bobcats. So yeah, market is, uh, is pretty good on those as well. Excellent, man. All right, Guy Groenwald, thanks for joining, man. Good luck on Skunk buying. Thank you very much. Yeah, we'll talk to you. All right.

• 54:38Speaker 04

  Does that get you excited for trapping season?

• 54:40Steven Rinella?

  Well, I don't, you know, I just keep my stuff and use it for stuff, hats and whatnot. But I'm telling you, dude, if I was like, if you could go back, if I was like me as a senior in high school, and I knew that I could be those prices on skunks, I would be going.

• 54:55Speaker 04

  Cause they were a nuisance catch for you back then?

• 54:57Steven Rinella?

  I'd be going gangbusters. You, no, you tried to like, you did your best to avoid them.

• 55:02Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 55:03Steven Rinella?

  I would be going, just to be able to be like, to try getting them.

• 55:06Speaker 04

  Right.

• 55:08Steven Rinella?

  I would be going absolutely gangbusters.

• 55:11Speaker 04

  There are probably some trappers that are going.

• 55:13Steven Rinella?

  Oh, yeah, dude, cause you like talking like.

• 55:15Speaker 04

  Can, yeah.

• 55:16Steven Rinella?

  A bunch of day.

• 55:17Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 55:18Steven Rinella?

  And it's just the tails.

• 55:20Speaker 04

  Right.

• 55:21Steven Rinella?

  I would be going nuts.

• 55:23Speaker 04

  Cool. Something new.

• 55:26Steven Rinella?

  That's my whistle for that.

• 55:29Steven Rinella?

  Do that, Phil. You're probably good at it.

• 55:32Speaker 06

  Nope.

• 55:34Steven Rinella?

  Oh, can we plug the live tour?

• 55:35Speaker 04

  At the end.

• 55:36Steven Rinella?

  Oh.

• 55:37Speaker 04

  Let's do it at the end.

• 55:38Steven Rinella?

  Arkansas sold out. Fayetteville sold out.

• 55:40Speaker 04

  We still got stuff to go through here.

• 55:42Steven Rinella?

  Well, I'm not, I didn't think we're done. I was just gonna butt it in there. How was my interview? Did it go too long?

• 55:46Speaker 04

  No, no, we're fine.

• 55:47Speaker 06

  Perfect, man. Need you on more of these.

• 55:51Speaker 06

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• 56:07Steven Rinella?

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• 56:50Steven Rinella?

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• 57:34Steven Rinella?

  lemproducts.com and use promo code STEVE15 to get 15% off plus free shipping. That's lemproducts.com promo code STEVE15. LEM, built for the work, there for the journey.

• 57:54Speaker 04

  Time for a hot tip-off segment. Since it's that time of year, when a lot of you out there are about to get accused of abandoning your husbandly and fatherly duties, not me, doesn't happen to me, but I know a lot of you, it's a problem. We got a, oh wait, did I jump ahead?

• 58:10Speaker 06

  Yep.

• 58:11Speaker 04

  Oh, jumped ahead, sorry.

• 58:12Speaker 06

  Number six.

• 58:13Steven Rinella?

  No, Steve, skunk questions.

• 58:14Speaker 04

  No, I know, I just, we've got a bonus hot tip-off, we'll get to that, my bad. It's hot tip-off time where we decide which two hunters has the best kernel of hard-won knowledge and expertise. This week, the winner's gonna get a Benchmade Meat Crafter, you wanna pull it out, Corey?

• 58:29Steven Rinella?

  Oh, yeah.

• 58:30Speaker 04

  Meat Crafter 2.0 and both flavors of our, our new jerky, right there. Steve, you wanna hold one up?

• 58:38Steven Rinella?

  Classic pepper, what am I holding here? Oh, yeah.

• 58:42Speaker 04

  So winner's gonna get that stuff.

• 58:44Steven Rinella?

  Classic pepper and Hawaiian teriyaki.

• 58:46Speaker 04

  Winner's getting that stuff.

• 58:48Steven Rinella?

  Genuine buffalo meat.

• 58:49Speaker 04

  And both contestants are gonna get a copy of the new F'd Up Old Trucks calendar. It's signed, which makes it very valuable and rare.

• 59:00Steven Rinella?

  Collector's Edition.

• 59:01Speaker 04

  Yep. And today's hot tip-off is a special Wisconsin edition, the cheese curd edition. We've got Ryan Beagle versus Kevin Hall. Phil, you wanna roll the tape?

• 59:21Speaker 03

  Hey folks, Ryan coming at you here from Wisconsin. I've got a hot tip off this week.

• 59:26Speaker 04

  It's a big forkie.

• 59:27Speaker 03

  For your out of state hunts when you have to cross lines and get the brains out of the skulls for CWD reasons. Pack your cordless drill and you can either bring your own little 14 gauge wire with a J hook at the end. Or if you're in a pinch, any old school tent stake. And take your cordless drill, stick it in the back of the skull and you're a reamer out. It'll come out in goops, dump it out. Take your standard issue water bottle or if you're a high roller, get the squeezy one with the nozzle on the top from Quick Drift. Dunk her in the back here, give her a squeeze, shake it out, reamer again.

• 1:00:12Speaker 03

  Back and forth till you get all that stuff out of the brain cavity. It comes out like a goop, but you got yourself a legal skull for crossing state lines. Thanks.

• 1:00:24Speaker 06

  That's brilliant.

• 1:00:25Speaker 04

  Alright, what's the next one Phil? I like that one.

• 1:00:32Speaker 05

  Hey Meteor Crew, this is Kevin coming at you from Wisconsin. For my hot tip, I'd like to discuss a dedicated kill kit. So when I'm preparing to go on any western hunt, what I like to do is take one of these gallon sized vacuum sealed bags and I'll place my game bags in there.

• 1:00:51Speaker 05

  Along with a couple of zip ties.

• 1:00:55Speaker 05

  My hunting license and hunter safety card.

• 1:01:01Speaker 05

  Maybe throw in a couple of rubber gloves. And I always keep a dedicated skinning knife with extra razor blades all inside this bag.

• 1:01:16Speaker 05

  I'll throw it on the uh vacuum seal here. Pull all the air out of it. And once that's done, I now have a dedicated bag that I'll leave in the bottom of my pack. And it's only gonna come out once I successfully harvest an animal. Hot tip for you.

• 1:01:34Speaker 04

  Man, it's a tough one.

• 1:01:36Steven Rinella?

  It's a tie dude.

• 1:01:37Speaker 04

  It's a tough one.

• 1:01:38Steven Rinella?

  You know what he should do with that vac sealer? You ever do this with your kids? Like when we're going somewhere, I'll take their coming home clothes?

• 1:01:43Speaker 04

  And yes.

• 1:01:44Steven Rinella?

  Vac seal their coming home clothes. Then they never get into them.

• 1:01:47Speaker 04

  There's a bonus hot tip.

• 1:01:48Steven Rinella?

  And their head it doesn't exist anymore when you vac seal their clothes.

• 1:01:52Speaker 06

  Um, man, I've lost usage for my vac sealer. I don't like putting meat in there anymore. So that might be a good way.

• 1:01:58Steven Rinella?

  Cause of why? Microplastics shrinking your tank.

• 1:02:00Speaker 06

  No, I just have a hard time getting every single one to seal correctly. And then the meat doesn't last as long compared to butcher paper and wrapping paper.

• 1:02:07Speaker 04

  I feel like I I don't need to keep my like.

• 1:02:09Steven Rinella?

  Conversation.

• 1:02:10Speaker 04

  Yeah, my license and and my hunter safety card in there with that stuff.

• 1:02:14Steven Rinella?

  I can see putting your tag in there.

• 1:02:16Speaker 04

  Yeah, tag.

• 1:02:17Speaker 06

  Some states.

• 1:02:18Steven Rinella?

  But that they can't, you can't ding them on that.

• 1:02:20Speaker 04

  I'm just saying, I'm just making observations.

• 1:02:24Speaker 06

  It's a brilliant idea to get the brain.

• 1:02:26Speaker 04

  It probably compresses those game bags down nice. So they're taking up less space in your pack.

• 1:02:31Steven Rinella?

  No, I know.

• 1:02:32Speaker 04

  But man, I'm weighing in. I'm going with the skull cleaning thing. Cause I've.

• 1:02:35Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:02:36Speaker 04

  Used like a piece of coat hanger and.

• 1:02:38Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:02:39Steven Rinella?

  No.

• 1:02:40Speaker 04

  I'm gonna try that.

• 1:02:40Steven Rinella?

  Here's why I'm going. Here's why I'm going brain.

• 1:02:45Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:02:45Steven Rinella?

  Slurry. I, the the kill kit thing, I like it, but it's a packaging scheme.

• 1:02:52Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 1:02:52Steven Rinella?

  Not a scheme. It's a packaging. It's a packing strategy.

• 1:02:55Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 1:02:57Steven Rinella?

  Which is cool.

• 1:02:58Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 1:02:58Steven Rinella?

  But it's a packet. It's like, it's like, it's all stuff you'd already think to bring, but here's how to like.

• 1:03:03Speaker 04

  Yeah, you might have it in a little stuff sack or so or in a pocket in your backpack. It's just a different way to do it.

• 1:03:10Steven Rinella?

  So he's pitching us on how to pack it.

• 1:03:13Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 1:03:13Steven Rinella?

  Yep. The other guy with the brain slurry, that's a legit pain in the ass.

• 1:03:17Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 1:03:19Speaker 06

  Messy.

• 1:03:20Speaker 04

  Oh.

• 1:03:20Steven Rinella?

  So he's introducing a, you know, all due respect, I've heard that before.

• 1:03:27Speaker 04

  Well, I, I, I, it's makes it more efficient.

• 1:03:30Steven Rinella?

  But he's introducing a whole concept.

• 1:03:33Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 1:03:34Steven Rinella?

  So I'm gonna go with that.

• 1:03:35Speaker 04

  And everyone's got a drill laying around, so.

• 1:03:37Steven Rinella?

  Yep.

• 1:03:38Speaker 06

  Yeah, I mean, I've heard that the idea to vac seal your food and everything, if you're really trying to compact your backpack, if you're going on a multi-day hunt or whatever. So that one wasn't new to me, but using the tent stake on a drill for the brain matter, that one was new to me. So I'm going for the brain matter splatter.

• 1:03:54Speaker 04

  All right, man, we got a winner.

• 1:03:56Speaker 05

  Ryan, you're the winner.

• 1:03:57Speaker 06

  Hey.

• 1:03:58Speaker 04

  Congratulations.

• 1:03:59Steven Rinella?

  Congratulations. Hard one.

• 1:04:00Speaker 04

  But Kevin, you still get a calendar because your tip was pretty good, too.

• 1:04:04Steven Rinella?

  Yep. Hard one.

• 1:04:06Speaker 04

  Uh, so now, now we can, uh, jump ahead to the, uh, and Corey, those, we'll get their contact and all that stuff to get that stuff.

• 1:04:14Speaker 06

  Oh, for sure.

• 1:04:15Speaker 04

  Cool. Um, all right. We got a bonus hot tip for you today since I'll read it again. A lot of you out there are gonna get accused of abandoning your husbandly and fatherly duties. So we got a very special bonus hot tip, uh, that we felt was worth its own segment. Uh, let her rip, Phil.

• 1:04:34Speaker 05

  Hi, my name's Ashley. We live in Wisconsin. We're new to the area. Um, I'm a wife of a newish to hunting dad. And we listen to the podcast every now and again, and we thought we would give a hot tip, her tip off from the wife's perspective. If you need, here's my tip. If you need more time because you haven't filled your tags yet, but you're worried that your wife will get mad because she's stuck alone with the kids again.

• 1:05:12Steven Rinella?

  Uh huh.

• 1:05:15Speaker 05

  Here's my tip. It's five, five tips to get your wife to be totally fine with you going back out in the sand. Number one, get her a coffee. Set her up for success. Get her a coffee. Clean the kitchen. Make lunch.

• 1:05:34Speaker 05

  Plan for dinner. Like take out, take out the meat to thaw, plan for dinner, make lunch, get her a coffee, clean the kitchen, and get a new activity for the kids. Coloring books, new markers. Yes, you already have markers, but we like new ones, fresh ones.

• 1:05:54Speaker 05

  Activity for the kids, plan an activity for the kids. Plan for dinner, make lunch, get her coffee, clean the kitchen. She'll never be mad at you for going out again. Cause you still haven't gotten your.

• 1:06:06Steven Rinella?

  That's a good woman right there, man. Cause she's like laying out her expectations.

• 1:06:10Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:06:10Steven Rinella?

  No, that dude doesn't have to guess.

• 1:06:12Speaker 05

  Okay, come on.

• 1:06:13Speaker 04

  Um.

• 1:06:14Speaker 06

  Good point.

• 1:06:15Speaker 04

  Yeah. I, I mean, it's just like, don't be a goober and just leave without like doing what you're supposed to do.

• 1:06:21Steven Rinella?

  Or, or, yeah, or you say like, I get it. This is annoying. What could I do?

• 1:06:28Speaker 04

  Exactly.

• 1:06:28Steven Rinella?

  Like, I get it. Like, I, I could get the whole, like, I could see from your perspective, this is like a big ask. What can I do? One, short term?

• 1:06:36Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 1:06:36Steven Rinella?

  To, to help out and what, in long term, what can I do to, to like a little payback?

• 1:06:41Speaker 04

  Yeah, but I feel like you gotta be careful cause you like, can't like, get this thing where you like work yourself in a corner and you can't go either.

• 1:06:50Speaker 06

  Well, right. And then expectations year after year after year.

• 1:06:54Steven Rinella?

  When his kids get older though, here's his solution.

• 1:06:58Steven Rinella?

  If, this is a thing, this is a thing for young dads.

• 1:07:02Steven Rinella?

  You, i- if, if you take all the kids with you, no one will ever get mad at you.

• 1:07:07Speaker 04

  Exactly.

• 1:07:07Steven Rinella?

  You, you're, you come home a hero every time.

• 1:07:12Speaker 04

  And they don't have to be of hunting age.

• 1:07:14Steven Rinella?

  No.

• 1:07:14Speaker 04

  Right?

• 1:07:15Steven Rinella?

  If you take them all with you, you could be like, I'm taking the kids out and I'm gonna, uh, throw them out of a tree.

• 1:07:21Speaker 04

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:07:22Steven Rinella?

  Have fun.

• 1:07:23Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 1:07:24Steven Rinella?

  It's like, if you take them all with you, no one is ever, ever gonna get mad at you.

• 1:07:30Speaker 04

  Yeah, and you can be preemptive about it. You could take them camping over the summer, like before hunting season and, and give the spouse a break for a weekend.

• 1:07:39Steven Rinella?

  Sure.

• 1:07:40Speaker 04

  Then you're ahead of the game.

• 1:07:41Steven Rinella?

  People love their kids, but there's a lot. Most people are like, dude, if you're gonna take them and go away for a couple of days, please.

• 1:07:47Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 1:07:48Steven Rinella?

  Then you don't have to worry about anybody being mad.

• 1:07:50Speaker 04

  But Ashley made some great points. Uh, so thanks for sharing, Ashley. We're also gonna give you one of the signed calendars. Uh, and, and your husband could put that up in the garage and like mark times when you should be taking care of the kids instead of you.

• 1:08:03Steven Rinella?

  Coffee, check. Kitchen, check.

• 1:08:05Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 1:08:06Steven Rinella?

  Markers, check. Lunch.

• 1:08:07Speaker 04

  Use that calendar the way it's supposed to be used.

• 1:08:09Steven Rinella?

  Meat thawed. I like that little detail.

• 1:08:11Speaker 04

  That's, that's, yeah, that's a big one.

• 1:08:13Speaker 06

  Break out that burger.

• 1:08:14Steven Rinella?

  You know, get that burger thawed out.

• 1:08:16Speaker 04

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:08:17Speaker 06

  Thanks, Ashley.

• 1:08:18Speaker 04

  Yep. Thanks. Thanks, everyone for joining. Um, that's the end of this week's show. We'll see you guys next week. Uh, next Thursday on October 16th and everything's gonna be live. So the, the chat room will be back. And we can, and we can talk with you guys uh, as we go. So thanks, everyone for tuning in.

• 1:08:48Steven Rinella?

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• 1:09:30Steven Rinella?

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• 1:10:41Speaker 00

  This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.