Russell Brand: ON How He Nearly Ruined His Career

You may think you know Russell Brand - the actor, the comedian, ect... but that’s only a small part of who he truly is. Prepare yourself, today’s conversation gets intimate. Russell opens up about his struggles with addiction, his experience chasing fame, money, sex, and why that’s not something people should aspire to. He shares what has enlightened and led him to a life of sobriety for over 14 years now and the role mentors and spirituality has played in getting him there. He even shares some surprising wisdom from a mutual friend of Puff Daddy, comparing the challenges of life to levels in a video game. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jay Shetty?

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• 0:44Jay Shetty?

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• 2:16Jay Shetty?

  And when everything around you is changing, it helps to have a few things you can rely on. AG1 Next Gen is one of those easy habits to keep. It's the clinically backed, comprehensive daily health drink that supports your gut health, energy production, and foundational nutrition all in one scoop. AG1's ingredients are sourced from quality partners for absorption, potency, and nutrient density to deliver the foundational nutrition your body needs. And alongside a proper diet, AG1 Next Gen meets 94% of nutrient requirements and is clinically shown to enrich the gut microbiome. For a limited time, save 20% on your first subscription order of AG1 Next Gen or AG1

• 2:59Jay Shetty?

  Pro at drinkag1.com/onpurpose. That's drinkag1.com/onpurpose.

• 3:09Speaker 01

  Life's like a computer game. You get trapped on different levels and until you can master that level, you'll be trapped on it. It goes, you obviously was trapped on the drug level, then you get trapped on the sex level, you've got to transcend these different levels. Now, for me, these levels are helped to be ferried across by mentors. When I was a drug addict, I met Chip Summers. And Chip Summers was the first person I met that was clean. He were able to transfer to me, like any good teacher will, something that was latent within me, but I was not in a position to realise.

• 3:37Jay Shetty?

  Welcome back to On Purpose. I'm so happy that you're here. My name's Jay Shetty and I'm all about creating a community of purposeful people. People who want to find their purpose and serve others through it. I really hope you're a subscriber by now. Make sure you've rated and reviewed as well. Now, today's guest is Russell Brand, someone who needs no introduction. But as some of you know, Russell and I have been friends for some time and I find him absolutely fascinating. This conversation is one of my favourites I've had with him. And even though it's a little shorter, it's super powerful.

• 4:20Jay Shetty?

  I asked Russell questions he'd never been asked before, especially about his relationship with the media, his honesty, which nearly ruined his career, and his spirituality. If you find him as fascinating as I do, you will love this episode. Towards the end, it gets pretty deep, so make sure to listen the whole way through. Enjoy the episode.

• 4:50Jay Shetty?

  Hey everyone, thank you so much for coming back to the podcast. Today, I'm genuinely grateful and so excited for our next guest. He genuinely doesn't need an introduction, but last time I did it, he said he really liked it. So I'm gonna do it again because that's always a nice thing to do. So he's an actor, activist, comedian, and someone who I truly believe is an amazing thinker in the realms of philosophy, spirituality, politics, and life. I'm so excited to dive in to his fascinating life, which I believe he's had one of the most fascinating ones. He is none other than Russell Brand. Russell.

• 5:26Speaker 01

  Thank you again for that introduction. I was enjoying that.

• 5:29Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, well, you deserved it. Like I said last time, thank you for doing this again. It's great to be back with you.

• 5:33Speaker 01

  Congratulations on your podcast.

• 5:35Jay Shetty?

  Thank you, I appreciate that. It was wonderful being on yours.

• 5:38Speaker 01

  This is the world now, just people podcasting each other. I suppose ultimately there'll be a time when no human interaction is not subsequently released as a podcast.

• 5:48Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, well, I think that's what happened, right? People had amazing conversations and then they thought, I wish we could have shared that with someone.

• 5:54Speaker 01

  Now.

• 5:55Jay Shetty?

  And now they do. But I remember last time we were together, it's actually been just a year since I interviewed you for Recovery, which was awesome. I was looking at that the other day, which was beautiful to be with you. And the feedback we got for that live broadcast last year, I think like over two and a half million people saw it, and the amount of energy we had for it was absolutely amazing.

• 6:14Speaker 01

  I was very impressed and for a while afterwards, I couldn't do an internet video without going, press like, press, let me see a little heart, a smiley face. But then I couldn't keep up the enthusiasm, Jack. That is why we need you.

• 6:26Jay Shetty?

  Well, yeah, I'm not doing it this time because it's not live, so I can't ask for that. But we were together in Ireland, so the last time we were together, we were in Ireland on a beach because you were shooting a movie and you were kind enough to invite us into your trailer while you were getting your makeup done and wearing your outfits. Tell us a bit about that.

• 6:41Speaker 01

  We were doing, I was doing a children's film, it was called Four Kids and It. And now, everything I do in my life is weighed up against, is it gonna be as enjoyable to me as doing my daughter's bath time, where I get to spend good quality time with them, mucking around, and it's one of my favorite things to do. So I only really do work if it doesn't get in the way of parenting. I've been like, you know, I've done, had a long period of my life where I wasn't a parent and now so parenting, that's it for me, you know, like at this stage. There might be a bit where I get bored of them, I'm considering that as a possibility. So like doing that film out there. Radhanath Swamy, a friend and teacher to both of us, was kind enough to come visit us

• 7:22Speaker 01

  in County Wicklow, Ireland, also to do the podcast as usual. Heaven forbid that a conversation should occur without being recorded and subsequently downloaded. So, you know, on the last day, I was writing about it, funny enough, today, because I've like written a book on mentorship and Radhanath Swamy is one of the mentors that I write about in that book. And I wrote about that occasion and how strange it was to be in a trailer with you, a couple of our guys, Sandeepan, our mutual friend, and Radhanath Swamy, and of course, my own father, and thinking how unusual that felt, those sort of, those worlds colliding, and Radhanath Swamy telling those stories from the Bag of Agita. You know, and in a sense, those kind of, those kind of encounters are demonstrative

• 8:06Speaker 01

  of a new life, where my past is coalescing with my future, where different groups of my friends are starting to meet. In the past, things were quite atomized for me. I was quite intuitive and solitary and quite, I don't know, I'm still quite protective, I suppose, but in a different way. So now, you know, if I do make a film, then I'll make a film where I can bring my kids. You know, if I do do podcasts, I try to do it in a way that doesn't disrupt, you know, my connection to my family. So, things have changed and that little experience there of making that kids film and the encounter that you and I had there, in a sense, is emblematic of this transition.

• 8:43Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, it was an amazing conversation and it's fascinating to see that transition. Did you ever, did you always dream of being a father? Was that always a step you wanted to take? Did you want to have children?

• 8:52Speaker 01

  Yes, I like, almost as soon as I stopped being a child, I wanted children. I really liked children a lot. When I was sort of like fifteen or sixteen, I like, I, there's something about them, I suppose what it is, is that the unstructured connection that they have, which most Evidently is observable through play. The way kids play for me makes me very, very happy. That you can just invent what your situation is. And my daughter now is just reaching that age where you can, that's what she'll do. Oh no, Lucy's stuck in the mud. You know, we know Lucy is. Let's get Lucy out of the mud. You hold on my pyjama, you hold my jarmas. We have to get Lucy out of the mud, but no sooner have we got Lucy out of the mud than she's in a tree.

• 9:37Speaker 01

  This kid's got no respect for reality, for the way that reality is configured according to material situations. For her, Lucy is always on the precipice of being stuck in the mud or caught in a tree. And it's our duty to get them back. I feel some of the storylines might be being plagiarised from the Disney version of Winnie the Pooh.

• 9:55Jay Shetty?

  Right.

• 9:56Speaker 01

  Although the central character Lucy seems to be her own construction, unless that has been taken from Ben and Holly, the kids show. Either way, it's a kind of hip hop editorialising of various media into her own imaginary narratives. They say that hip hop were the first post-modern art form. And now children's play is this wonderful collage of influence and I want in.

• 10:21Jay Shetty?

  Do you still have play yourself? Is there something that you feel, because I feel as adults, a lot of people I know, I spoke to the founder of ClassPass, who's a good friend of mine, and she was talking about how as a CEO, she really believes that one of the things we lose as adults is play. And you've just brought that up and I'm just thinking that reconnection of play in our own lives. Is that something that you have a form of?

• 10:42Speaker 01

  Yes, I have like firstly, I will say this, that a very good friend of mine, Emma Kenny, who you should have on your podcast, said that sex is adult play, that in a healthy relationship, your sexuality should have an air of playfulness in it. So that's something that I think about and aspire to. Elsewhere in my life, in my friendships, like I like. I've always enjoyed people, I guess that's why I like comedians, is like people that you can start talking about stuff. And you sort of know that what you're talking about is not really real or something, but you're just inhabiting a role. Of course, I'm a performer as well, and a performance requires play, it requires play. Now, from, you know, you and I getting to know each other more, you have a lot of spirit, you are running deep, you know.

• 11:26Speaker 01

  So you have a kind of a sort of a very, what seems to me, a very natural, monastic, sage-like quality, you know. I'm not saying that that doesn't mean the play is accessible to you, I'm sure it is. But for me, coming from the background that I do of a performer and an entertainer, play is vital. The tricks, that energy, the energy of none of this is real, don't take this stuff seriously. You know, it's found in a lot of deities that I like, you know, sort of like in Krishna, for example, there's a lot of. Mischievous, I like that stuff. Now mischief is a risk because we live in an orderly, material world with regulation. But I suppose the idea of play is you're not hurting no one.

• 12:07Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I wanted to talk to you about a few things today, and one of the first things was, and I don't know if you know this, one of the most Googled things is, is Russell Brand married? And obviously, I know Laura, your wife, she's wonderful and amazing.

• 12:18Speaker 01

  That's me Googling that.

• 12:22Speaker 01

  Who's this person in the bed? Where are these credit card bills coming from?

• 12:28Jay Shetty?

  You're making sure, just checking in with yourself. But it's so fascinating to me because, and I meant what I said earlier, you've lived an incredibly fascinating life already, and you continue to do, but every part of your life's been so well documented by the media. And I use the word well loosely, but your life has been documented by the media. And how has that felt for you, like, how has that felt from an experiential point of view? I feel like today, the reason why I ask it, is people who are listening, my audience, people are just struggling with their lives being documented by their own social media profile. Like, people are struggling with that, but you've had your life documented by people you don't even know.

• 13:05Speaker 01

  It can make you feel. Kind of distinction and separation from yourself, like a part of you gets taken away. In fact, when I first got famous, I was friends and still am friends with Jonathan Ross, the broadcaster, the English broadcaster. And he said, you lose something when you become famous and you never get it back. And what it is, is a kind of privacy and a sense of who you are. Now, at the beginning of my life in public, I didn't have any regard for privacy because I didn't, I wasn't that kind of person. I liked being famous, I liked performing, I was single. And so I didn't regard myself in that kind of way.

• 13:51Jay Shetty?

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• 14:34Jay Shetty?

  That's indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need to hire? This is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs. This episode is brought to you by Wayfair. Home should be a place that feels like a sanctuary, a space that truly reflects who you are, but it can be challenging to balance style, budget and endless options. I was looking to create a dedicated calm space for my morning meditation and reading, but I was struggling to find pieces that felt grounding but could also stand up to daily use. I went on Wayfair and found a beautiful, solid wood accent chair and a bookshelf. Now that corner is my favorite place to anchor my day. The quality is incredible, it's built to last and it completely shifted the energy of the room. Plus, you can

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• 16:00Jay Shetty?

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• 16:21Speaker 01

  It's how it feels like is the illusion sometimes become more powerful than the truth, but perhaps everyone experiences that. In a sense, fame is simply an amplification of what we all experience. We all know what it's like to be gossiped about. We all know what it's like to have people not like you and then attack you. In fame, you experience these things in amplification. So in a way, it's very alien, but in another way, it's very ordinary, just by degree is different from your normal experience. So at times it's been frustrating because I sometimes you want to control your own narrative and you want to control what other people think of you, which obviously is impossible. And so it's at times been quite challenging because I've wanted to go, no, that's not what I said, that's not what I meant, I meant this.

• 17:05Speaker 01

  And in my journey as a person with a public profile has been one of relinquishing that control, accepting the terms of fame, accepting that I'm here now, and trying to re-engage so that I can be somehow useful in this role.

• 17:22Jay Shetty?

  I think you're one of the few people who can probably say that authentically because I was saying this to you earlier and I said I'd bring it up. I was watching the start of your new Netflix show that's coming out in December, so it will have come out by the time this comes out. But in that show, you start off and you talk about how you realise, you you make a great joke about how, actually, why don't you explain it? It's probably better you explain. You make a great joke about how, you know, you're out here to send a message, et cetera, and then also to monetise.

• 17:49Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, yeah, I say that. It's very difficult to make a living in media if you spend all your time criticizing all media. Like, I learned that I was using, like, if you use your position of fame to attack the way that fame and celebrity functions, then eventually you're gonna cut the head off the serpent, the serpent's like gonna stop. I mean, in in the end, you can't ride that forever. So there was a, it was a sort of a curious time because I suppose we've talked about mental health. And in a way, what happened to me is I reached a point of total disillusionment because I reached saturation in terms of my own, in a way, my own expectations as a celebrity.

• 18:30Speaker 01

  There were points in my life where I would have liked to have been as famous as, say, Tom Cruise, or as famous as Will Smith, or as famous as, you know, I don't know, famous, famous people. But like, when I was very close into that world, it found it very, something in it made me recoil and not at ease with myself. Not that I made a deliberate choice to leave, but in this, like, it's created a kind of spasm in me that I didn't have much control over. Subsequent to that, I experienced a sort of death, a kind of death of what I thought I wanted. Even though, Jay, I was never, you know, I'm not a bloody idiot. So I knew even when I was little, even when I was really little, I thought, I wanna be famous.

• 19:12Speaker 01

  If I'm famous, I won't be me anymore. I would have escaped me. But I also knew it definitely wouldn't work as a technique. But then it's still sort of weird when it actually happens. And this same lesson has been taught to me in many ways, through drugs, or sex, or, you know, money, lots of ways. I know there are people that are more extremely famous, more extremely wealthy, have more sex. I know all of those kind of things, but. For me, I suppose I'm like an idiot student of spirituality. It's like, well, I just really will check that sex doesn't work again. And then before going in, it definitely, definitely doesn't. It definitely doesn't. It's definitely not the answer. But these things are seductive for a reason. Temptation is not ugly. Temptation is beautiful.

• 19:55Jay Shetty?

  Absolutely. And you said you wrote your book Mentors, which I'm super excited about because tell us a bit about the few people that are in there and how they've helped you maybe come to terms with some of these things that you just mentioned there. Who are those mentors? What are the topics that vary across that book?

• 20:09Speaker 01

  Once I met this guy, I were hanging out with Puff Daddy of all people.

• 20:13Jay Shetty?

  Okay.

• 20:14Speaker 01

  And this guy that was mates with Puff Daddy, he was called Tracy. He was pretty cool and he used this metaphor, which I've not used in the book. And I realize that now that perhaps I should have done. He goes, life's like a computer game. You get trapped on different levels and until you can master that level, you'll be trapped on it. He goes, you obviously was trapped on the drug level. Then you get trapped on the sex level. You've got to transcend these different levels. Now, for me, these levels are overseen or you're helped ferried across by mentors. When I was a drug addict, I met Chip Summers. And Chip Summers was the first person I met that was clean. He was a worse drug addict than I'd been. He would been in prison for armed robbery and stuff. I was never, never served a custodial sentence. So when I heard this guy talking about, I don't take drugs anymore, even though there were lots of things that are different, he's an atheist, I'm not an atheist.

• 20:59Speaker 01

  I was able to sort of somehow download from him or he were able to transfer to me like any good teacher will. Something that was latent within me, but I was not in a position to realize. So he was the first mentor that I had. I made the decision, this is like, at first I didn't know it's possible. Like you say, you can't be what you can't see. I didn't know it's possible to not be a drug addict. I thought that was the solution. Then I saw people not being a drug addict and then I was willing to do what he said. In this case, 12-step recovery, which I believe is a good solution for anyone with addiction issues or anyone that wants to change themselves, actually. Then like, um, you know, then I got kind of caught up on other stuff, the sexual behaviour, the obsession with fame, pleasure, individualism. And then I met a series of different mentors,

• 21:44Speaker 01

  including spiritual, like, you know, devoted spiritual people, such as Radhanath Swamy, who we both know, Amma, the great Indian saint. And then like people that are more, what do I want to say, parochial, like my mentor Jimmy, who's like a very successful producer and manager of a production company, who's got four kids, been married a long time, doesn't drink or take drugs like me, hasn't for longer than I have, who's quite a solid person from a background I identify with, uh, who's intelligent and lucid. So like, I watched this person and it was very practical mentorship. It's like, if I'm at the point of a decision, like, I'm gonna do this, Jimmy, I'm thinking of doing this.

• 22:25Speaker 01

  Do not do this. I do what he says. Instead, so I'm already on a different path now. I'm using a consciousness that is not my own. I'm accessing external consciousness. So in a way, I know it's bloody simple, it's just following advice. But, you know, we come from similar worlds, similar backgrounds. We don't have mentor traditions in bloody Essex or Wood Green. No one says, right, emulate this guy, this person is connected. You have to find them by chance and by circumstance. And sometimes you don't even know that that's what you need, you know. So through my life, once I was switched on to it, because of the good fortune of being a drug addict, I became more alert to the possibility of doing it. So I started to look at, I like this guy, I want to emulate him. It could be like a comedian, like Bill Hicks, where like he was sadly already dead by the time I'd become a comedian.

• 23:10Speaker 01

  But I thought, I like how he does that. And I model myself on that man. And like, oh, what, what does he do? Of course, when you're constructing your identity, you, everything is about trying to connect to your own essence. So you're not gonna, you know, like, I'm not from Texas, I'm not, like, I don't use anger in the same way as he does. I mean, there's all sorts of distinctions, you know, and I, you know, so, you know, a little bit of Kenneth Williams, a little bit of Richard Pryor, a little bit of Peter Cook, you just copy the people that you admire. And it helps you to become yourself, because the latent energies within you. Will be realised if you have the external coordinates to follow, but don't get obsessed or fetishize the external coordinates, in which case you're just mimicking and you won't engage your own essence.

• 23:52Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, and I'm glad you touched on that. What is that difference in your mind on imitation versus emulation? Like that mimicking versus actually finding yourself through that process? Because I I couldn't agree with you more. I genuinely feel that we live in a society whereby the pinnacle of success becomes our validation or metric of how we measure ourselves. So right now, for example, you know, Kylie Jenner has just become the youngest billionaire in the world at twenty one. Every twenty one year old is going, oh, God, I'm not a billionaire, you know, and it becomes the new pressure. So it becomes the imitation, or you see someone who's popular on social media by doing a particular activity. You think, oh, I need to imitate that to get that result. What is that difference between it being a search for self versus a sabotage of self?

• 24:37Speaker 01

  Maharishi Maharesh said discernment is the most important thing, discernment. And then I spoke to Jordan Peterson and he said judgment. So it's interesting, isn't it, that someone like the Maharishi would not say kindness, love, compassion, but would say discernment, knowing what path to follow. In terms of mentorship and emulation, I would say inner connection. It's very difficult not to want to mimic stars or billionaires. But I would say we must become attuned to what is timeless. And economic success is emulating social power. It's the idea of, oh, like, what can we infer from the wealth of Kylie Jenner, is it?

• 25:22Jay Shetty?

  Kylie, yeah.

• 25:22Speaker 01

  Kylie Jenner, like, is that, oh, she's powerful, she can do what she wants, she's made something of her life, she's glamorous, she's potent, she's powerful. Like, so the timeless in that is, I suppose, power. The temporal in that is economic success. All it's gonna die, it's gonna go. Kylie Jenner, like all of us, will die, the money will die, the globe itself, the entire planet will die. So if you've spent your time festooning and ornamenting your

• 25:52Speaker 01

  Temporary vehicle instead of the timeless, which is in continual dialogue with the temporal and external. Then you have missed the point. So if I sort of say, I like Bill Hicks because Bill Hicks speaks the truth, right? And I, so I will speak my truth rather than I'm gonna wear these clothes and put on this accent. Then I've, you don't learn the wrong lesson. You know, and like a lot of times in my own life, I learn the wrong lesson. I learn, oh, you know, like Hollywood stars, they seem to be above. Problems and above the filth that I feel contaminated by. I'll become a Hollywood star. Oh no, the filth has come with me. You know, because I learned the wrong lesson. The real lesson, the real work is done inwardly. I suppose how to.

• 26:35Speaker 01

  Make this evaluation, Jay, would be to, this is why good mentors, because you can't always trust yourself. I can't always trust myself. I'm, I still am capable of making dumb decisions. I still might go. I, like you say with your seed and weed technique, which I adore, I like that I might sort of try and convince myself, that's a seed. And I might need someone else to go, that's a weed. You idiot, how can you try and sell that as a seed? Oh no, it could be a seed. Cause really what you wanna do, you know, the, the power, prestige, privilege, these things, oh. I like them. Part of me wants it. I want the glory, the adornment to be garlanded in wonder, to be kissed and loved and licked. But I've been there now and it's very temporary.

• 27:19Jay Shetty?

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• 27:53Speaker 02

  Mr. President, my company told me of the explosion on our rig.

• 27:56Speaker 03

  On October 2nd.

• 27:57Speaker 02

  Causing massive water displacement and triggering a tsunami. They all heap the blame on me.

• 28:02Speaker 03

  Tom Cruise is. Digger got us into this mess, and Digger's gonna dig us up. From the director of Birdman and The Revenant.

• 28:10Speaker 04

  What would happen if I stopped drilling? You start, you freeze in there, that's what.

• 28:14Speaker 03

  With great power comes great deniability.

• 28:17Speaker 04

  I'm not the first then.

• 28:18Speaker 03

  Digger. See the trailer online. Only in theaters October 2nd. Rated R. Under 17. Out of middle without parent.

• 28:24Jay Shetty?

  And yeah, it's that confirmation bias, right? We're always trying to find the information that justifies our belief. So if we want to switch and make ourselves feel, oh no, I am happy doing this because he or she's happy doing it, we find a way. Yes. We find a way. But what's fascinating about what you've done, I think I've wanted to ask you this since we've been friends and known each other. And I'm glad I get to ask it to you today because I think it's probably one of the hardest things to do, genuinely. I feel like you're someone who has multiple times reinvented themselves. And not reinvented for the sake of branding or marketing, but in bringing out your truth in different ways. Thanks, that's a good compliment. Right, and I mean, I'm saying, I'm genuinely saying it. Like, I don't think it's been a marketing or branding attempt.

• 29:05Jay Shetty?

  I believe it's been an attempt to be authentic and genuine at every moment, in the way that I've seen it. But you started off, and we were talking about it earlier, you started it off, you know, you were the host at Big Brother, the digital edition, etc. And then everyone knew you as this, you know, eccentric, crazy, wacky individual, you know, charismatic, captivating. And I've heard people who worked with you behind the scenes say, "He was extremely charming behind the scenes too." And there are parts of that which you've kept, and there's parts of that which you let go. And then we saw Russell Brand, of course, the actor. And then you moved into acting in Hollywood. And I know everyone that I speak to in America about you absolutely adores you and loves you for the movies that you made. And then we have you coming back and playing a more activist role.

• 29:48Jay Shetty?

  And then even in politics, and now spirituality, and philosophy, and culture, and society. I feel like that must have been so difficult because I don't think, and you may see it differently, but from my point of view, I never really saw you completely step away to come back. I never really, I see a lot of people, especially celebrities or people who are trying to find their truth and find their why. They kind of go away into hiding and then sometimes emerge in an interview and don't always make complete sense because they're still trying to make sense of what they're finding. But you almost have kept your personality and who you are, but then engaged and explored all these fascinating things.

• 30:25Speaker 01

  Didn't it been fortunate this, Jay, when you put it like that? In a sense, we all have our game, don't we? And our strategies. Some of us are attracted to the more high stakes game where you could be humiliated, exposed or attacked or killed. And I think what happened is that even though I, in various periods of my life have taken on the tools and ephemera of the culture, i.e. I want to be on the TV and dress up and be all famous, or I want to go to Hollywood or whatever. Something in me always knew that these things would pass and are not real. And I've kept a healthy dialogue with that, perhaps because I'm an addict and an addict has to be aware of pain continually

• 31:10Speaker 01

  and otherwise the pain will end in self destruction. So it wasn't a conscious, right, I better reinvent myself. It was in each case a sort of crisis that felt beyond my control. Like just, oh, this isn't working anymore. Can't do that no more. That doesn't seem real anymore. Not even really cognitive. I moved back from America when I fell in love with somebody in England. I got like the thing with politics, for example, was I, I remember, I feel like I asked myself the question of my mate Gareth that I was working with a lot of the time then. What will happen if I just start saying what I actually think about politics and then put it on the internet? What will happen?

• 31:53Speaker 01

  And then I watched what happened and it felt like I'd always felt that like for take the very obvious example of I said there's no point voting because the op uh the op opportunities for change are minimal and ultimately meaningless. I had always felt that that's why I had never voted and pretty much everyone I knew felt like I didn't belong to groups of people that were like, well, I'm a Democrat or I'm a Conservative. Everyone's just like, well, that's just that thing where everyone pretends that ordinary people can have power while these institutions protect their own interests. Everyone sort of knew that, whether intellectually or just more viscerally. So I started talking about it in the same way of through performance, through comedy, because the point of comedy in a sense

• 32:34Speaker 01

  is revelation, revelation of what is previously been concealed. That's what is exciting about comedy is that it puts you in touch with an ulterior reality, like that, you know, we know, we suspect, we pray and meditate on that whilst we accept the conditions of this conversation, that you're embodying that conscious entity and I'm embodying this conscious entity, we both know that they're going to die. We wonder what is the energy that's behind it, where will that energy go, of what is that energy comprised, how did we end up speaking this language? All of these questions fizz invisibly through the air, all of these connections are continually being made. And I feel that you can apply this metric, this tool, this analytical device to anything. You can start to say, well, what is politics? Who does it serve? How is it constructed? Why is this system still

• 33:16Speaker 01

  in place? Why has it not progressed when clearly the technology to change it has or evolved? Whose interests are being protected? Why are these conversations not had? Why is this information not conveyed? Why is that, you know, and if you start asking those questions, things start just peeling away and peeling away. You can ask it of yourself, you can ask it of someone you love, which is a cruel thing to do anyway, or you can ask it of the institutions that are around you. So in a sense, the thing that's, you know, you shed your skin like a serpent, you know, and you sort of go on, but like behind it, the energy is the same. My belief is while there might be an essential distinction between you and I, that you are some very particular expression of the whole and the

• 33:54Speaker 01

  divine, as everyone is, that we are all somehow in continual communion with something that's bigger than us, bigger than this. How could it not be? How could our little minds understand all reality? How could this be all that there is?

• 34:10Jay Shetty?

  And how did you get into that? Like, how did that journey start? So we're talking about all these reinventions, but that particular.

• 34:15Speaker 01

  What, spiritual curiosity?

• 34:16Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, where did that come from? Like, why did they?

• 34:18Speaker 01

  Drugs.

• 34:19Jay Shetty?

  Right.

• 34:19Speaker 01

  Because I think if you start taking drugs, you start thinking, I'm trying to kill this thing. Like, it's not working for me. And if you take things like hallucogens, the hallucogens will make you physically experience, oh, no, I'm not me. I remember that feeling, being quite young, sort of sixteen, taking acid, and the sort of the horror, actually, the horror, uh, because I was not, you know, I was doing it with other lads. I wasn't around bloody gurus.

• 34:46Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 34:46Speaker 01

  You know, like, so of just thinking, oh, no, I'm not me. I'm not me. This is not good. Who am I then? You know, and there's no one there to go, that's really beautiful, isn't it, that you're not you, because it means that you are everyone and you are everything. And all those things you've told yourself and your language and your culture and your gender and your identity are all just biological or so social programs that you are exhibiting. I just thought, bloody hell, whose hands are these? And it was scary. So, but I suppose as I am getting older, I'm becoming, uh, like, you know, in it, like, at the end of, is it, am I right in saying that at the end of the Gita, like, our Juna is like, I remember, like, in a sense, we know, we know.

• 35:23Jay Shetty?

  It's a reawakening.

• 35:24Speaker 01

  Huh.

• 35:25Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, reawakening. Sorry, continue, continue.

• 35:27Speaker 01

  Well, like, I feel like it unfolds for you. It unfolds for you. And there are moments in life where you're, you're, the trauma, the rupture, the pain of being alive, always will become an opportunity for learning if you're able to do it, if you're able to see it in that way. And sometimes in such, in our pain-based mentality, it's quite difficult to work that trick.

• 35:50Jay Shetty?

  Hmm.

• 35:50Speaker 01

  It's quite difficult to go, now, what am I supposed to learn here? What am I, how am I supposed to evolve here?

• 35:55Jay Shetty?

  Hmm. Now, one thing I like doing on the podcast is trying to extrapolate from incredible people's lives like yourselves, some, some practical lessons in that sphere, because I feel either, if you're watching this or listening to this, you're either on drugs and you've had the same experience. I know plenty of people who feel that way. So definitely there's that group of individuals. And then there's a group of people that just kind of feel that way, just because they've, they've realized, well, I don't want to be this, this can't be all there is. And then there's a group of people who are just like, oh, well, actually, that's too far for me to even think about. I'm not even there yet.

• 36:25Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 36:25Jay Shetty?

  You know, but when you do make that step and you start having, originally, like you said, you don't have a guru or sage to tell you, oh, that's a good feeling.

• 36:32Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 36:33Jay Shetty?

  You started having these feelings, what's the next thing you do? Like, what, what do you do from there? Where do you go?

• 36:37Speaker 01

  Start with the possibility of happiness, I feel. I don't agree with, whilst you and I have talked before about asceticism. You know, and denial of pleasure. I feel like the possibility that you can be happy is an interesting thing to invite. Cause I think a lot of people just think, well, this is life, life is miserable, my mum was beat up by my dad. This isn't me personally, I'm just making this example up, uh, you know, like, like I've only ever known misery. This, like, you have to overcome that idea, but even the fact that the possibility of happiness exists conceptually in your consciousness is the possibility of its realisation. Then I feel like you have to accept that you have a problem, i.e. something that you want to alter and change.

• 37:19Speaker 01

  Then you have to accept that there is a way of doing it. This is where a mentor is useful in hope, in the hope that change is possible. Then you have to be willing to accept help. And I think that can work with any situation, something as evident, chronic and severe as drugs or serious eating disorder. Or something like, oh, I don't like my job anymore, or I don't want to say those kind of things. Say me, if I like, you know, if I think maybe I agree with Jay that I don't wanna swear, maybe I think it's bad. Then I, now I know you don't do it, so I think, hmm, is it working for Jay? I'll try that, you know, so that's an example of how uh, something that's a potential for improvement.

• 38:00Speaker 01

  It could be deployed in my life and I'll maybe try it out and I'll be aware of it and see if it works for me, you know. So in a sense, like, I'm not too, um, um, uh, don't be married to the negative aspects of your self-belief. You know, if you've something, don't like something, you can't, don't you find you talk to people sometimes and they go, yeah, but I can't change, I'm always like this, life's like this. So I'm like, or someone I spoke to and I go, he goes, um, yeah, but I don't believe in God in that way, I believe God's in relationships. I go, yeah, but you're not happy, so fuck your beliefs, excuse my language. If your belief's not working for you, let's try something else.

• 38:33Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 38:34Speaker 01

  Let's try something else. If it's working, then crack on.

• 38:38Jay Shetty?

  I love that point about the openness to happiness. And funnily enough, my journey into being a monk and that part of denial was because I believed it would make me more happy. So even then, that was still the seed, that was still the focus, the focal point, that service was linked to happiness.

• 38:56Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 38:56Jay Shetty?

  That selflessness was linked to happiness.

• 38:58Speaker 01

  I think about this, Jay, you know, when people say, I want to be enlightened, is what they're really saying is, I want to be happy and I want pleasure and I want to not feel pain. And maybe it's not, you know, awful to not want to suffer. But I feel that if you mask the sincerity of your intentions, then you're less likely to achieve them.

• 39:21Jay Shetty?

  Totally.

• 39:21Speaker 01

  And also the way that we avoid the likelihood that our journey to happiness or connection or enlightenment, or call it what you will, will not be doing what we think is right. It's not going to be what we came up with. Whilst, of course, all of us, I feel, carry a kind of barometer that says, like you with the not swearing, something in you told you, I don't want to do that. And you listen to that voice and something in me says, yeah, don't look at porn, Russ. You know, like it's sort of, it's not like, I'm not responding to some external puritanical

• 39:54Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 39:54Speaker 01

  force that's saying, don't do it, although there are enough people that have written down, do not objectify sex, it will mess you up. You know, people have obviously discovered that for thousands of years, written it down, and have ignored it. But like, when your inner voice aligns with something like that, then you cover the possibility of sort of making a meaningful connection.

• 40:13Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I love that. I've seen you say that in a video that I saw on your Instagram page recently, where you were talking about how, how do you feel after you've just done the act? Like, that's kind of a great reflection process of like, for example, masturbation, it's like, how you feel after

• 40:25Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 40:25Jay Shetty?

  is a great judge of whether you want it in your life or not.

• 40:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, if you feel great, maybe there's some people that feel like, yeah, no, I like it, and you go, oh, carry on then.

• 40:32Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 40:33Speaker 01

  Like, although, you know, there is obviously such a thing as mental illness, there are obviously some people that go around doing the most unbelievable things and it sort of works for them, but I feel like As an optimist, I have to believe that if we were to approach those people with the light, that they would not wanna do it. You know, I don't feel that people would wanna cling on to the murder, the pedophilia, if they had a connection to God.

• 40:53Jay Shetty?

  Hundred percent. I think people are ready to give up lesser things in any fashion, material or spiritual or energy for higher energy.

• 41:00Speaker 01

  Me too. What do you think about the thing that Gandhi said ages ago, obviously, that, you know, that there's no point in India getting rid of the British, then emulating what the British would do in any way, just with Indians in the roles of power. He said, we've got to break down our country into like seventy thousand villages. They should all be autonomous. And we've got to let go of our love of gadgets and stuff. And he was saying this before we were, you know, spending our whole life staring at screens. You know, like you're saying, we, at some point, you've got to let go of those low, lower pressures, those low vibrational pleasures.

• 41:32Jay Shetty?

  And that's what I think is because people haven't been exposed to higher energy most of all in their life. And I see it everywhere I go. I'm just, I look back and I'm like, I'm so fortunate that I met someone of really high energy really early in my life.

• 41:44Speaker 01

  Right.

• 41:45Jay Shetty?

  And that's kind of what I feel like what I'm trying to do is, is just how can I expose people to great energy early in their life? Because then they at least know it exists. And this is a totally different context. But I was speaking to a big media company recently and they were saying how they know that when they make celebrity gossip, et cetera, it gets big views and big likes and big shares. But one of them is a bit more conscious and intentional and pushed a very important piece around mental health and reform and recovery. And when they did that, the views went even higher. And she was just saying that actually, taking a more highbrow attempt at media, taking a stance, having an opinion that wasn't necessarily diving into our lower desires to just learn about gossip and sex and all the issues,

• 42:28Jay Shetty?

  actually brought people into it. And so it's interesting how we sell people short through what we create.

• 42:33Speaker 01

  That's a cool point. I mean, like our sort of love of God or truth or purity or whatever you wanna call it, it shouldn't just be like supporting a football team. If you're just, oh, I like this one. This is the one I've happened upon. It's because it actually will work. You know, you have to actually believe, like, like I understand empirically with. Drugs. No, Russell, don't take drugs. It won't do what you think it's gonna do. It will temporarily distract you from pain and then the pain will be even worse. It's a harder lesson to learn around sex. It's harder to go, no, don't have sex. You will feel worse afterwards, except obviously within, in my case, in a happy, uh, monogamous relationship. And then even more hard to learn, oh, don't go out and try and adorn yourself with sort of glory and, you know, expensive garb or care too much about what people say.

• 43:18Speaker 01

  You sort of keep thinking it will work and obviously as that example suggests, people do think, no, looking at this, you know, video that says we might catch a glimpse up someone's skirt or hear some scintillating bit of tittle-tattle, you know, it still kind of works and it's, but, but, we are right, we are right. Like, you can't get past hate with more hate, you can't get past lust with more lust. But within love, within some pure consciousness, it must be housing all of it. The time is resting on timelessness, that if you can somehow get by it, if you can get by it, it will be more powerful. That's, I suppose, what faith is.

• 43:57Jay Shetty?

  Hmm. Well said.

• 43:59Speaker 01

  Thanks, thanks, thanks.

• 44:01Jay Shetty?

  So I'm gonna go into, we've got five minutes, I'm gonna go into the final five questions that I always do in the last five minutes.

• 44:06Speaker 01

  Good, pull that in, nick that. The final five. And now it's time for the terminal twenty. Unique item on under the skin.

• 44:14Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, so I'm gonna go into these five questions. So I actually, for this segment, I went, went to Google. Because I love seeing what.

• 44:21Speaker 01

  You really trust Google?

• 44:22Jay Shetty?

  I don't trust Google. I like, I like, I like knowing what, I like knowing what the masses are thinking about.

• 44:27Speaker 01

  Right, it's a temperature-taking device.

• 44:30Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, it, it helps me really understand.

• 44:31Speaker 01

  Do you think they're listening to us?

• 44:33Jay Shetty?

  Google, probably, they better be.

• 44:38Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, that's why we're wasting our life. Okay, so the, the question was, oh, we've, we've answered this one, we're gonna skip this one. So this one is, is Russell Brand married? That's one of the most Googled things.

• 44:48Speaker 01

  Yes, to my wife Laura Brand.

• 44:50Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, by coincidence. This is another, what is Russell Brand's IQ?

• 44:55Speaker 01

  Well, I like to think I'm quite clever.

• 44:56Jay Shetty?

  I know, I think people do too. That's a question that people.

• 44:59Speaker 01

  But if you don't IQ test, it's mostly to do with triangles, isn't it? Put this triangle over there. Now what? Hmm? Did they? Was it? What happened on the Tuesday? So I like to think I've got high IQ, but there's quite a lot of daily demonstrations of stupidity. I would have to be honest.

• 45:16Jay Shetty?

  Well, I remember when The Guardian put you in as the fourth most.

• 45:19Speaker 01

  Oh yeah, no clever person, influential.

• 45:21Jay Shetty?

  Think in the world, influential thinker in the world. Yeah, that was good, wasn't it?

• 45:24Speaker 01

  Because it was like Thomas Piketty, Naomi Klein, probably like Yanis Varoufakis, like proper like political leaders, ecologists.

• 45:32Jay Shetty?

  And then you're number four.

• 45:33Speaker 01

  Russ.

• 45:33Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, it was amazing.

• 45:34Speaker 01

  Quite right.

• 45:35Jay Shetty?

  I love that.

• 45:35Speaker 01

  Why am I not number one?

• 45:36Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 45:37Speaker 01

  Because I thought I had the time.

• 45:39Jay Shetty?

  I love it. Okay. Yeah, that was the Russell Brand IQ question.

• 45:42Speaker 01

  I love this bit of the show, by the way.

• 45:44Jay Shetty?

  Oh, good. Thank you.

• 45:45Speaker 01

  This is really, really tapping into my ego.

• 45:48Jay Shetty?

  Thank you. Is Russell Brand vegan?

• 45:50Speaker 01

  He tries. He's a nice guy.

• 45:52Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 45:52Speaker 01

  I like, I mean, like what happens with me is eggs, like, you know, but like I try to take them in the kindest way.

• 46:00Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 46:00Speaker 01

  Uh, I want to do is I reach into the chicken just before it's ready. No, don't do that. And like, and like, you know, I sometimes like a little buttery snack. I'm so sorry. I've, vegans are definitely right. I'm not arguing that they're, I'm not saying what's the point of being vegan. Vegans are correct. Are you vegan?

• 46:15Jay Shetty?

  I am.

• 46:16Speaker 01

  Of course you are. Look at your eyes. You're disgusting.

• 46:18Jay Shetty?

  I remember when you interviewed the happy pair too.

• 46:20Speaker 01

  No, I love those. Those men are beautiful, man. You've got to be vegan. You can't argue with whether or not you should be vegan. You know, like people do, no, you've got to eat, just eat. Like some people are taking it to extremes. I only eat meat now. What? I won't even have salad with it. No way. But like for me, you've got to be vegan for the planet, for yourself, for every reason. The trouble is, you know, eggs and cakes, weakness, general weakness. But I'm heading that way. Perfect to me will be vegan.

• 46:44Jay Shetty?

  Time. And, and the last one is what is Russell Brand up to now?

• 46:48Speaker 01

  Gosh, what is he doing? What I'm doing at the moment is being a father to my daughters, a husband to my wife. And work has become of secondary importance to me. But the thing that was there in the first place that got me into all that trouble and all of those adventures is still there. It's not gone anywhere. It will need to at some point manifest itself. And I'm just trying to prepare myself so that when next time it does it, it doesn't lead to me sort of being destroyed in some way or causing suffering. I want it to realise itself benevolently. And I feel that the only way to do that is to try to avoid making the decision or allowing it to migrate towards the ego, even things I start with the best intentions, i.e. true.

• 47:32Speaker 01

  Sometimes the ego gets hold of it. It's very crafty, the ego, isn't it?

• 47:35Jay Shetty?

  But that's, but that's the best thing that we have to try. Because otherwise we don't even see it. And, and we would often talk about in the monastery that when you're not doing anything out of the ordinary, it's easy to think you're humble. When you're not actually pushing the boundary, like if you sit alone all day, everyone will think they're humble. But it's when you go out there and you do something like, oh wow, I've got a big ego, I need to work on that. So it's like, if you don't activate, it's easy to start getting comfortable and think, oh, I'm quite enlightened, no, I'm quite realised.

• 48:02Speaker 01

  But you're actually just neutralised, you're not engaged with the worldly things. I like that.

• 48:07Jay Shetty?

  Anyway, awesome. Thank you, Russell. And I want people to go and of course buy the book Mentors, which I'm fascinated to read. Can't wait to read it.

• 48:13Speaker 01

  I'd like to.

• 48:14Jay Shetty?

  Anything you'd like to mention on Mentors?

• 48:16Speaker 01

  Just, no, you can do what you want with that. And buy it and read it and get mentors. You don't even need to buy it or read it. You could nick it or you could get the information and just get a mentor. Uh, and that Netflix thing.

• 48:26Jay Shetty?

  Yes, absolutely.

• 48:27Speaker 01

  By now, that's been and gone.

• 48:28Jay Shetty?

  Totally, but I'm gonna push that early anyway.

• 48:30Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 48:30Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 48:32Speaker 01

  Oh, and listen to our podcast, Under the Skin, and see how we gracefully steal that last bit. Where I go, okay, now it's the time, final five questions. I just, I don't know, I just like to go on Google, I guess. I've always liked it. So these are the top five, uh, Yahoo'd suggestions. Sponsored by Yahoo.

• 48:51Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I love it. Thank you, Russell. I'm so grateful.

• 48:53Speaker 01

  Appreciate it. Thank you, mate.

• 48:54Jay Shetty?

  Thank you for sharing your stories.

• 48:55Speaker 01

  Cheers, man.

• 48:56Jay Shetty?

  Appreciate it.

• 48:56Speaker 01

  Thank you for asking.

• 48:56Jay Shetty?

  Thank you.

• 49:03Jay Shetty?

  I hope you loved that episode. I want to say a huge thanks to Russell for being so open and honest and gracious, inviting me to his home again to do this interview. I'm sure we're going to do a lot more together. Make sure you're following Russell on YouTube, Facebook and Instagram. We'll put the links into the space as well. And you should also check out his new book called Mentors. It's brilliant. He talks you through the different mentors he's had in his life, even one that we've shared in meditation and spirituality. Make sure you've subscribed, rated and reviewed. It will make such a difference into other people finding their purpose. Thank you so much.

• 50:26Speaker 05

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• 50:55Speaker 02

  Mr. President, my company informed me of the explosion on our rig on October 2nd. Causing massive water displacement and triggering a tsunami. They all keep the blame on me. Tom Cruise is.

• 51:06Speaker 03

  Digger got us into this mess and Digger's gonna dig us up. From the director of Birdman and The Revenant.

• 51:12Speaker 04

  What would happen if I stopped going? You're strong, you're freezing to death, that's what.

• 51:16Speaker 03

  With great power comes great deniability.

• 51:19Speaker 04

  I'm not the first daddy.

• 51:20Speaker 03

  Digger, see the trailer online. Only in theaters October 2nd. Rated R, under 17, not a minute without parent.