ETHAN SUPLEE | What It's Like To Lose 300lbs & Adele's Transformation | Modern Wisdom Podcast 184

Ethan Suplee is an actor & a podcaster. Ethan's fitness journey has been a rollercoaster - from 200lbs at 10 years old to 550lbs in his 20's and now 260lbs at 13% bodyfat, all while starring in some of the biggest films in Hollywood including Mr Name Is Earl, The Wolf Of Wall Street & American History X. Expect to learn Ethan's thoughts on the response to Adele's weight loss photo, his advice for anyone looking to lose lots of weight, his lessons from decades of dieting and much more... Sponsor: Get my free Ultimate Life Hacks List to 10x your daily productivity → https://chriswillx.com/lifehacks/ Extra Stuff: Follow Ethan on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/ethansuplee/ Subscribe to American Glutton - https://americanglutton.net/ #ethansuplee #weightloss #adele - Listen to all episodes online. Search "Modern Wisdom" on any Podcast App or click here: iTunes: https://apple.co/2MNqIgw Spotify: https://spoti.fi/2LSimPn Stitcher: https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/modern-wisdom - Get in touch in the comments below or head to... Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chriswillx Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/chriswillx Email: [email protected]

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Chris Williamson?

  You were 200 pounds at 10 years old, right?

• 0:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, by 2000, that was 536 pounds. So I don't see why anything you say about my feelings about myself should be able to alter my feelings about myself. But we've gotten into this space where the group can dictate how people view themselves. And not only that, the group must dictate how people view themselves.

• 0:34Chris Williamson?

  What's your T-shirt say?

• 0:37Speaker 01

  It says, I killed my clone today.

• 0:40Chris Williamson?

  What's that a reference to?

• 0:43Speaker 01

  There's a, there is a martial arts guy. I did a television show called Chance with a fellow countryman of yours, Hugh Laurie. And I played this character where I was like, basically my first official badass character. And the, the character was based on a real guy who is actually a military and martial arts instructor. He teaches like the elite military dudes how to fight with knives. Like, that's his job. And so in playing, in, in meeting him and spending time with him, I trained with him a bunch. And he had this whole philosophy about kill your clone.

• 1:26Speaker 01

  So every day you meet the clone of yourself from 24 hours in the past, and you have to fight to the death. And if you've improved yourself by one one thousandth of a percent that day, you will kill your clone. So the point is to kill your clone every day. So the shirt is saying that today I did that, I killed my clone.

• 1:52Chris Williamson?

  That's so sick, man. I'm gassed, I'm gassed for today's episode, dude. I've just finished training and nearly did this podcast without shorts on. I keep on nearly forgetting to put shorts on, but I put shorts on. We're here, I've got shorts on.

• 2:06Chris Williamson?

  Is, what's that guy's name? What's the?

• 2:09Speaker 01

  Tom Keir. Tom Keir is the real life guy that I, he's, the character that I played was based on Tom Keir.

• 2:18Speaker 01

  If you ever saw a movie called The Hunted with Tommy Lee Jones and Benicio del Toro, it's about special forces guys who are good with knives. He like created all of that knife work. He's a, he's a true badass dude.

• 2:31Chris Williamson?

  So is it like Krav Maga type stuff or even more?

• 2:34Speaker 01

  I think it's even a step in, in the more hardcore from.

• 2:39Chris Williamson?

  When you get more hardcore than Israeli military.

• 2:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:43Chris Williamson?

  That is serious, serious shit. So do you think that's the pivot now for your acting direction? The sort of big badass kind of gruff. It's always in the action film. It's the dude that's got two 50 cal machine guns in each hand. You know, the belts of, of ammunition. Do you reckon that's kind of the pivot direction?

• 3:06Speaker 01

  This is, this is all the pivot I want to happen. Who knows if it actually happens, but yes, I'm in. Give me two 50 cows and belt fed machine guns and all of that. And I'm fucking in. Are we allowed to say fucking?

• 3:19Chris Williamson?

  You can say fucking as much as you want, my friend. Yeah, that would be, because I mean, you're not going to do sweet young uncle very well anymore. I don't think you can do that.

• 3:30Speaker 01

  Yeah. I hope not. I don't want to do it. I've done it quite a bit.

• 3:34Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, you know, like you can't just play the best friend because he, who's that guy? Like, oh, it's just, that's just like Uncle Bob in the corner. It's like, Uncle Bob looks like he wants to kill someone.

• 3:45Speaker 01

  Yeah. It's, it's such a weird thing too, because with acting, I feel like I, I can play that kind of innocent, sweet, kind of dumb buddy or brother very well. And I've done, I've done it a lot. But like as a little kid, I never physically matched this, but I loved action movies and, and shoot them ups and stuff, you know? So my dream would be for sure to do something like that. Uh, I've not gotten to do it, but I would love to.

• 4:16Chris Williamson?

  Bro, it's happening. It's happening so hard and I'm going to be there. Me and Michael Malice are going to be there with a huge, huge tub of popcorn. Well, Michael won't because he's still counting calories, but um, I'll be there with a huge tub of popcorn. Michael will be there with a diet drink. It might be refeed day. You never know.

• 4:33Speaker 01

  Right. And then he'll have bubblegum flavoured ice cream.

• 4:36Chris Williamson?

  That guy, man. Do you see that he's doing, what was it he told me? He's doing a cream egg challenge? Did he tell you about this?

• 4:43Speaker 01

  I don't know. I don't know about this.

• 4:45Chris Williamson?

  Every week I get a message on Signal from him that's like, dude, am I one of your countrymen yet? And he's ordered every different type of British jam that he can get. Do you see his cereal? The thing when he was doing all that different cereal?

• 4:57Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 4:58Chris Williamson?

  What on earth? Malice, I know that you're listening, man. Like, I love you, but I get worried because someday someone's going to send you something in the post, which is 45-year-old, like, confectioneries or something, and it's gonna kill you. And I don't want that to happen.

• 5:14Speaker 01

  I don't want it to happen either. But goddamn, he's gonna have fun.

• 5:19Chris Williamson?

  He's gonna go out in style, man. Yeah. He's eating a fossilized chili from the 5,000 years ago, or whatever it is that he's managed to find on eBay. The guy's a savage. So look, man, I want to know about sort of your fitness journey, starting at when you were at your heaviest and taking you till now.

• 5:39Speaker 01

  Right. My fitness journey has been a bit of a roller coaster. I mean, if we go back to like, five years old, at five years old, I think if you looked at me today, I would not look like an overweight five-year-old. I had chubby cheeks. I definitely had a bit of excess fat, but I wasn't fat. I went to visit my grandparents and they were like, holy fuck, this kid's lost, this kid's parents are doing nothing for him. We're putting him on a diet. And so I kind of developed this way of eating very early on, which was I would sneak food because at five, food was restricted. And if I wanted a second helping of food, I'd

• 6:24Speaker 01

  have to eat it in the kitchen very quickly before anybody could see. And so then I just kept getting put on diets throughout my life. But I was very good at cheating at diets because I didn't want to be on a diet. It was kind of like this authoritarian thing of like, you're on this diet now. Yeah. And my mom, bless her heart, was always very excited when. The nutritionist or whoever it was would say like, oh, you understand it's not that he eats too much, it's that he's eating this food that is poisoning him. If he could just handle candida, he wouldn't be fat anymore. Or I remember as a kid, there was a period,

• 7:06Speaker 01

  I don't even know what the diet was called, but where it was like, white foods are bad. As long as he doesn't eat anything white. And it was literally like, white potatoes are bad and white cabbage is bad. Red cabbage is fine. You know, like apples are bad. Oh, no, no, not apples. Green apples are bad. Mayonnaise is bad. Cottage cheese. Anyway. And then there was a subsequently, years later, a red phase where it was like, anything red is bad. White cabbage is good. Red cabbage is bad. Anyway, fucking chaos, right? And so by the time I became kind of autonomous and started working as an actor and had money, I was like, the greatest thing you can do is hit a fast food drive through at two o'clock

• 7:48Speaker 01

  in the morning. I didn't really like eating in front of people. And so at that point, my weight skyrocketed. Um, by, uh, two thousand, that was five hundred and thirty six pounds. Now I say five hundred and thirty six pounds because I'm fairly sure I was heavier than that at some point, but, um, I, I had weighed myself once because that you can't, you don't have a scale that can tell you that weight at your house. So I went to a place that had a special scale, weighed myself, left and was like, well, fuck it. I mean, that's the number. I, what do I do? And I gained weight from there too. So I have no idea what I actually got to.

• 8:33Chris Williamson?

  You were, um, two hundred pounds at ten years old, right?

• 8:35Speaker 01

  Yeah. Ten years old, I was two hundred pounds. And that's when my parents started putting me on diets. Prior to that, my grandparents had put me on diets, but after ten, my parent, my, my father was like, enough of this.

• 8:50Chris Williamson?

  What age were you at the five thirty six?

• 8:54Speaker 01

  Five thirty six, probably twenty one.

• 9:00Speaker 01

  And not long after that, I met a girl. The girl never brought up my weight once. She was hot and I had been with girls that I didn't really care about before that. That you'd meet at a nightclub and, you know, I wasn't, I never thought about future with girls. And so suddenly I'm with this girl and, and, and I'm starting to think about like wanting to have a long-term relationship with her. And, uh, and I realized that the things that she enjoyed doing, um, I wasn't necessarily cut out to do.

• 9:41Speaker 01

  She liked hiking and spending days at the beach and going on trips to Europe and walking around all day. And I was like, no, Europe, you sit at a cafe and you just eat and then you, you know, you have a car hired to take you somewhere else. Like you don't walk around. Uh, you know, I'd never taken public transportation and she's like telling me about how great the train systems in London and Paris are. And I'm like, ah, yeah, that I'm not, just not going to do that. So I started to think about weight loss and that. So the first time I decided that I needed to lose weight, it was about maintaining this relationship with the girl.

• 10:20Speaker 01

  And I, I had the most bizarre situation where I had to ask her for help. And in asking her for help, I was scared because she had never brought it up and it was almost like, I have a secret. I have to tell you this secret.

• 10:34Chris Williamson?

  She might not know.

• 10:35Speaker 01

  She might not know that I'm overweight and I need to lose weight, right? I'm 500 plus pounds and I really had this like fear of like, if I tell her that I'm overweight, she'll know. How will she ever be able to look at me the same way again? I don't want to ruin this. Um, and I finally broke down and said like, I don't know what to do. This is crazy. I gotta let you in on this secret. I'm 500 pounds. I'm, I'm, I'm have some excess weight. Could you help me take it off? And she was like, oh yeah, we can do that. No problem. Here's this diet, like, let's just do something extreme. Here's this, I'll, I'll figure it all out. You don't think about anything.

• 11:19Speaker 01

  And like found this diet, which was, um, a liquid diet of like protein shakes and.

• 11:27Speaker 01

  A fucking handfuls of supplements, vitamins and fibre and shit like that in a ton of water. No, no solid food. Which by the time I got through that, I lost eighty pounds in two months. And that eighty pounds plus the next twenty, like so that hundred pounds, I never gained weight back into that. That was weight that I kept off.

• 11:51Chris Williamson?

  Just chopped off the top, the very top of that, yeah.

• 11:54Speaker 01

  Boom, I never. Now, when you get down into like, under four hundred pounds, I've been back and forth a couple of times. Um, and that was really a lot of trying to figure out what diet I was gonna do. Like, you know, I'm a sober person, my wife is not, and I'm not like some kind of like an abstinence, abstinence fiend or anything like that.

• 12:19Chris Williamson?

  Have you always been sober?

• 12:21Speaker 01

  No, I've been to rehab a couple of times and so sobriety is something I need to do rather than want to do. I have no, uh, it's not something I necessarily enjoy, other than the fact that I know it allows me to have the life I have. Um, but like when I look at, uh, my addictive nature with food, having given up drugs and alcohol, there is something kind of, I don't wanna say easy, because I don't wanna disrespect anybody who has trouble with that. But the idea that you just are either doing something or not doing something is, that level of responsibility seems easy to me. You cannot do that with food.

• 13:04Speaker 01

  Food, like it or not, if you have trouble with it, there's gonna be some situation where you have to eat.

• 13:11Chris Williamson?

  Exposed to food, yeah, exactly.

• 13:14Speaker 01

  Um, so it's been a long, hard journey figuring that out. I started, um, I lost weight. I then did a job for a number of years called My Name is Earl. I gained weight back. I, after that, I started, became obsessed with cycling. I lost a shitload of weight. I got actually thin. Um, was not comfortable with that. Decided to lift weights and put muscle on. Did that, was loving that. Then was like, I worked better as a fat guy. So continued to go to the gym, but ate everything in sight and got really big, close to 400 pounds again.

• 13:53Chris Williamson?

  I bet you were strong at that point, though.

• 13:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was lifting weights every day, but I wasn't lifting weights in the way I do now. I just went to the gym and picked up whatever heavy, like, you know, how heavy can I go on the bench press? Oh, I can do 405. Like, I'm just gonna do 405 then. That's what I'll do. And I wasn't even like, really doing, I just lift it until I couldn't lift it anymore. And then that's done with that, you know? It wasn't the smartest, like, I, it took me a long time to like, get smart about all of this. Um, I got really big again, but also much more muscular. And then, uh, I was doing that show I mentioned to you with

• 14:36Speaker 01

  Hugh Laurie called Chance. Um, and I, I was really big, very strong. And for the second season, I was like, what would this be like if I took a little bit of the fat off, but kept the muscle? So I did that. The second season, I'm in better health, better shape. And then after that show ended, we did two years of that show, I was like, I wanna lose weight, but still be a big guy, cause I'm comfortable, more comfortable being kinda big. And for, for a year, I did keto, trying to maintain muscle mass. And I would notice through, I would get DEXA scans and notice that like 30 to 40% of the weight I was losing

• 15:16Speaker 01

  was lean tissue. And I was getting smaller, but my muscle wasn't staying as big. I was losing strength, which was a bummer. So I just got really scientific about it, increased my protein, which in doing that, you can't, it kind of defeats keto.

• 15:35Chris Williamson?

  Is that right? Does enough protein knock you out of ketosis?

• 15:38Speaker 01

  Yeah. Um, I, I, I eat about 280 grams of protein a day. And the amount of fat that I'd have to eat in order to Not have any of the protein go through glucogenesis in the liver would just be astronomically high and you wouldn't be in a deficit, a caloric deficit. And so you, you know.

• 16:03Chris Williamson?

  So it's very difficult then to use ketosis to lose weight whilst maintaining muscle because the requirement that you have on your fat is proportional to the protein. And if you drop your protein down so much, inevitably your muscles are going to atrophy.

• 16:22Speaker 01

  I, listen, if you tried to do keto, I'm sure there's a version of you doing it and not damaging your muscles. You could probably do that. But when you're looking at losing 100 pounds of fat, which is roughly what I wanted to lose, that's just such a long period of time of weight loss that it is gonna be hard to maintain all that muscle mass. So I, I get into these things where people are like, you're dead wrong about keto. And I'm like, look, I'm not knocking keto. Keto, I fucking lost a ton of weight and keto might be perfectly

• 17:02Speaker 01

  fine for a person who's fit or who wants to lose a couple pounds and maintain all their muscle. That might work. But when you're talking about doing it for years to lose huge amounts of weight, you're gonna sacrifice lean tissue. You just are without enough protein. And if you raise your protein high enough, you're not gonna be.

• 17:26Chris Williamson?

  You gotta have your fat to then keep you to not be knocked out of ketosis, which then puts you over the deficit. Okay, yeah. It's a, it's very, I haven't, it's something I haven't done. I remember messing around with it when it became cool, like maybe sort of eight years ago. And I have such low fat in my diet all the time, just naturally, I don't tend to eat fatty foods. And it really didn't agree with me. I don't operate tremendously well. So, but I totally get it as well. Michaela Peterson, I was recently on her podcast, and that girl eats beef, salt and water.

• 17:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:59Chris Williamson?

  She's got the, the maddest diet on the planet. And a lot of the people that follow her stuff are either on beef, salt and water, or some version of keto is kind of like the overarching theme of that. And uh.

• 18:12Speaker 01

  I would just, my, I, listen, I'm not even against it. I'm not advocating against it. I'm just saying, I would be willing to bet she came to it at a place where it wasn't like, I need to lose a hundred pounds of fat and maintain my level of fitness. So I just think it's like, whoa. You know, if you're going to be doing something that puts you in a deficit for years, you've got to look at what you're focusing on. That's all.

• 18:41Chris Williamson?

  So what did you, what did you settle on after all of that, playing around with all different diets? What, what did you settle on to keep the weight loss sustainable?

• 18:49Speaker 01

  Low fat, high protein, moderate carbs.

• 18:53Chris Williamson?

  What were your macros or your cal's at around about?

• 18:56Speaker 01

  I, I mean, for maintenance, I'm like thirty five hundred to four thousand calories a day. For maintenance, uh, my deficit is around twenty five hundred. And the first thing I do is go like, how do I get two hundred and sixty grams of protein? Two hundred and sixty to two hundred and eighty grams of protein today. And then the next thing that I work out is carbohydrates and it changes, you know, almost month to month, it's going to be different a little bit. And depending on, you know, if it's my day off, I'll lessen my carbs and increase my fats a little bit. But fat is definitely the, the, the guy getting shortchanged.

• 19:38Speaker 01

  And I will sometimes go so low fat that I gotta take a handful of omega threes just to hit my fat markers.

• 19:45Chris Williamson?

  Mm hmm, mm hmm. Yeah, I feel like I'm, so I have double cream in coffee on a morning in a desperate attempt to remember to get some fat things. If I don't, I'll be so far under. So I think, similar to you. So I mean, that, without getting sort of super technical into it, a, if three and a half to four thousand calories was maintenance for you and your deficit was two thousand five hundred, that's a fairly aggressive cut. That's a pound and a half to two pounds a week.

• 20:17Speaker 01

  It's what I'm trying to do on a cut. Yeah. I'm trying to hit like one percent of my weight per week.

• 20:24Chris Williamson?

  What did you feel like mentally cognition? Cause you've got to perform. You've got to go out there. You've got to do a thing, you know, I can, as long as I've not got a podcast to do, I can sit behind the laptop, do the emails, send a message, read some books, prepare for a guest, do whatever I need to do. Like you've got to be a game, biggest blockbusters up against like Hugh Laurie, Leonardo DiCaprio, like they're bringing the fucking fire, you know, like you can't be rolling in going, well, I'd love to be a 10 out of 10 guys, but actually, I mean, this 1,000 calorie deficit. So I've only got sort of seven in out of 10 in the, in the tank. What were you doing there?

• 21:03Speaker 01

  I, I've done every version of diet while working and I've even done like, you know, the fucking really stupid diets. It's like, everybody eats 600 calories a day for two months. And, you know, you're going to be lightheaded every time you stand up. You're going to be constantly cold. Like you're not going to have any energy at all. And it's not, it's not really worth it trying to do something like that at work for me. So, so now when I go to work, if I'm doing intense 15, 16 hour days, I try to do maintenance. I, I do maintenance calories.

• 21:43Speaker 01

  Um, and I always take my own food. I don't mess around with the, the catering or craft services at all because there's just no telling what's in any of that stuff. And, and if it's a packaged food, I, I try to not eat a lot of prepackaged food anyway, um, that I haven't packaged for myself. Um, but yeah, it's, it's, it's rough doing a, an extreme diet while trying to work. It's, it's rough doing a diet and, and going to the gym and having kids and like having a house that I have to participate in also, you know, but I've found that,

• 22:22Speaker 01

  The difference between the diet I'm on now and the diets I've done in the past were mainly because when I was doing keto for years, the idea that I had was that it was just carbohydrates. And by the way, it took a couple of years to get to the idea that it was all carbohydrates because leading up to that, it was just gluten.

• 22:45Chris Williamson?

  Or white food or red food.

• 22:47Speaker 01

  Yeah. And it was this idea that it had nothing to do with me and my personal responsibility. It was this evil food that was poisoning me and shifting my mind around because in fairness, the first three or four days of eating carbohydrates, I gained nine pounds and was freaking out like.

• 23:08Chris Williamson?

  So when you switched from keto to counting calories and macronutrients, added carbs back in, you gained?

• 23:17Speaker 01

  Nine pounds in three days.

• 23:19Chris Williamson?

  Which to you must have been.

• 23:20Speaker 01

  I was in a cut. It was a cut. It was, I didn't go from keto to maintenance to a cut. I went from keto to a cut.

• 23:29Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 23:29Speaker 01

  And I gained nine pounds.

• 23:30Chris Williamson?

  And all the alarm bells went off the.

• 23:32Speaker 01

  I just was sitting there, dude, going like, how long am I gonna do this? Like, am I gonna gain 30 pounds hoping that I lose weight? Like, it was crazy.

• 23:43Chris Williamson?

  Shit, man.

• 23:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was a lot to, it was a lot to overcome mentally. I shouldn't have been getting on the scale every day at that point. I should have gone like, give me, I'll do it in a week. I'll get on the scale and see what happens.

• 23:55Chris Williamson?

  Again, like, this is the benefit of hindsight. You know, there is someone listening right now who's on a long-term, multi-month, multi-year cut, who's got a lot of weight to lose, and they're thinking, I might try and go to counting calories and macronutrient profile instead of doing keto, and they're gonna have what happened to you, but not stick it out.

• 24:20Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 24:21Chris Williamson?

  So by telling them that, you've, you know, that is, that is gold in information, but you have to earn it in the, the fire that is the crucible of personal experience, right?

• 24:31Speaker 01

  Yeah. And, and it's, it becomes such a mindfuck because.

• 24:36Speaker 01

  Depending on what diet book you've read, or what your group of friends are doing, you become religious about these ideas about food. And I've eventually, you know, there's a movement in L.A. about lectins, which is just maybe a broader word for nightshades, I guess. You know, I remember as a kid, hearing about nightshades being bad, and now it's lectins. Fuck it, take a look at what lectins are in. Lectins are in everything. You can't find a food, you know, a vegetable that doesn't have lectins in it. And so I'm going like, what are you guys talking about? Now plants are toxic, now vegetables are toxic? Like, this is crazy. But if it's working for you, I say good for you.

• 25:20Speaker 01

  I just don't, I think like, the trouble I have with it is going, it's this type of food. It has nothing to do with me. It has nothing to do with my habits and behavior. And then when I tried to change it up, three days of weight gain, I was going like, well, this is insane. This clearly doesn't work.

• 25:42Chris Williamson?

  And it's the evil food narrative kind of comes back in again.

• 25:45Speaker 01

  Yeah. I made it through those three days. Day four, I lost two pounds. So I'm still seven pounds up in my cut. And, uh, and I just was like, I gotta try something different. Because what I'm doing, I'm losing 40% lean tissue every two months when I get my DEXA scan. And that's all, I just didn't want to do that, you know? Over the course of a hundred pounds, that's 40 pounds of muscle that I've lost.

• 26:15Chris Williamson?

  Hard earned.

• 26:17Speaker 01

  Hard earned. I mean, I mean, listen, dude, I went from 200, just about 200 pounds, to just about 400 pounds in the gym lifting weights every day. I put on a shitload of muscle in that, in those years of lifting weights and eating everything in sight. And I had fucking giant traps. And my thought was, what would it be like if I just took the muscle off? I'll be a fucking bodybuilder. I was so excited. And then I went to keto and like, I, I, I probably gave up 30 pounds of muscle. And I, listen, I don't know that I need 30 pounds of muscle from where I am now. I have.

• 27:02Speaker 01

  Uh, 230 pounds of lean tissue right now, so 250 pounds, that is like you're getting near to like bodybuilder size. I mean, you're, I'm, I'm probably technically bodybuilder size now. Once I get to like 7% body fat, hopefully I'll, I'll look more like a bodybuilder, but like, I, I do have that thing of like, what is my goal? And I want to do the thing that gets me to my goal the best. I don't want to do a thing because I have this uh, preconception that's not necessarily scientifically sound that I can't eat gluten, or I can't eat the fucking bell peppers, or whatever it is.

• 27:43Chris Williamson?

  No red foods, no orange foods.

• 27:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's just, I think that's, it becomes disingenuous. And so now I can basically eat whatever I want. Um, and I, I will say to go from keto, which became very easy for me. Chicken, I, I, and like, there's a couple of different modes of keto. If I'm doing a fucking, I don't give a fuck keto, I'm eating hot dogs without the buns and dipping them in nacho cheese sauce, right? Which today I'm going like, how the hell did I do that? That's to me seems poisonous now. And if I was doing a very strict version of keto, it would be chicken thighs and broccoli covered in olive oil.

• 28:26Speaker 01

  And I learned eventually that even doing that mindlessly, I wasn't losing weight. So I'd have to do that in moderation to really lose weight. And the weight I was losing was also lean tissue. Um, so to, yeah.

• 28:42Chris Williamson?

  Let's take it like high level then. So you can go back to the year 2000, year 536, and you can send a nice big email drafting out a diet plan and a training regime. What do you send to yourself?

• 29:00Speaker 01

  Oddly, I think the thing my wife found me, who was my girlfriend at the time, uh, the liquid diet, I think at five thirty six, that's perfect. I think that because there's something about my level of responsibility where I'm so overwhelmed by food at that point that the taking it down to like, just be responsible for drinking this shake three times a day and eating this handful of fiber or whatever the hell the vitamins were.

• 29:34Speaker 01

  That's it. That's all you have to do. Don't think about counting calories. Don't think about, you know, removing, you know, omega sixes and increasing omega threes. Like, don't think about that. Just be responsible for this. And then the, the problem I had was once, because you can't really do that forever. That's not a way to live. Um, once you kind of get through that and you have this sense of responsibility over this thing, it's the increasing it. This is what I think about with carnivore folk and I'm stoked that carnivore works for people too. But when I look at carnivore, I go like, that's a, that's an extreme reduction. Be responsible for, uh, beef, salt and water. Fine.

• 30:18Speaker 01

  But eventually I think you wanna build out on that. So once you kind of get your feet stable and you go, okay, this isn't hurting me. I'm not allergic to any of these things. I'm not having an adverse effect. Let's dip our toes into vegetables and see how do we feel when we eat red peppers? And how do we feel when we eat cucumbers? And if you don't have a bad reaction, you know that those are safe foods and you've now built into your arsenal of things you can be responsible for. And, you know, let's see what happens if we have a bowl of rice and then work out an hour later. How do we feel in the gym? You know what I mean? I think there's levels to all these things. I, I, again,

• 31:02Speaker 01

  I'm a relativist. So if it works for you, then fucking keep doing it.

• 31:06Chris Williamson?

  At the end of the day, the only thing that we're bothered about is the results, right? So, okay, so you're saying there might be some people listening. In fact, I'm absolutely certain that there will be some people that are like, I have a lot of weight to lose. A potential good starting point would be this liquid diet. What was the, what was the shakes? And then where would you move yourself on to there and when?

• 31:28Speaker 01

  I think if you have hundreds of pounds to lose, that doing something radical and extreme like that isn't such a bad thing. First of all, you have so much stored energy that you're not in risk of damaging yourself by going extremely low calorie, right? And also, if the way you and I diet today, if you map it out, you go like, if you have hundreds of pounds to lose and you're losing them very, very slowly, it's gonna take years and years and years, which I think you do have to confront the fact that if you've gotten to the place of hundreds of pounds of excess stored energy, that you are gonna be looking at something that is a lifelong alteration of eating habits.

• 32:14Speaker 01

  That's fine, but you wanna kind of get, you wanna get to goals as quickly as possible because you wanna build that foundation that keeps you going, I think. So doing something radical and extreme to start it, I have no problem with, and I would advocate to do that again. It's figuring out the usefulness and workability of the next diet when you do start eating again. And the problem I kept running into was this kind of belief system that had to go along with any diet I was doing. So it was, you know, gluten is bad and that's the trigger, or that's the thing that's causing me to store excess fat, so I'm gonna get rid of that.

• 32:59Speaker 01

  And I would just say like, get rid of those ideas, and if you don't like gluten, or you have an adverse effect from gluten that is objective, fine, cut gluten out, there's a diet for you. If you don't like fat, or you have trouble digesting fat, or you don't feel good after you eat it, there's a diet for you. If you like fat, there's a diet for you. But I think it's more important to be aware of what you're actually experiencing versus...

• 33:32Speaker 01

  You know, somebody selling you on lectins are bad, or gluten is bad, or, you know, GMOs are bad, or pick your poison. I think there's a school of thought that that would point a finger at any kind of food group, you know, from vegans to carnivores. There's that spectrum is full of.

• 33:49Chris Williamson?

  Avoid the ideology. Avoid the church of gluten free, or the church of keto, or the church of carnivore, or the church of whatever it might be, and focus instead on energy balance. What's going in? What's going out? Am I losing weight? Am I checking the scales regularly? Am I tracking my food? What's your streak on MyFitnessPal? What's your longest streak?

• 34:10Speaker 01

  Oh, man, that was actually what I used at the beginning because I was writing everything down, and there was so much math that I would write, I would like double check my math every day, and sometimes it would be wrong, and then be like, completely fucked. I think I had like three or four months of check-ins on MyFitnessPal at one point, which was great.

• 34:34Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, that's serious.

• 34:36Speaker 01

  I think it does become, you know, in a cut, certainly. I write everything down every day still, just to make sure. But like on maintenance, I'm not even really looking. I've learned over the past year and a half or so, what that, what that looks like, what it feels like. And that's the other thing I'd say to anybody who's, who's thinking about going to calories and macros. It is an adjustment. Figuring all this stuff out is an adjustment, but kind of, you kind of get the hang of it real quick. I would also suggest anybody who's doing keto to spend a

• 35:18Speaker 01

  week writing down their calories. I bet they'd be surprised at how many calories are in a tablespoon of olive oil, you know, and what, what kind of energy that's providing them with.

• 35:28Chris Williamson?

  Dude, that coffee that I talked about in the morning, which is like a shot of double cream in a coffee, is like 7% of my daily calories, and it's the size of a couple of cubes of sugar. But it's, it's mad. So I wanted to, oh, actually, before I do that, where are you at now? What's weight and body fat at now? Have you got an idea?

• 35:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, 260, 13% body fat.

• 35:54Chris Williamson?

  Bro.

• 35:55Speaker 01

  Which is good. And this is, by the way, with calipers, I'm at 9%.

• 36:01Speaker 01

  This is a DEXA scan, which I always like to talk about because I just think it's a more hardcore test.

• 36:11Chris Williamson?

  Is there any residual visceral fat? Is there any sort of long-term organ, organ sort of fat which is taking more time to get off? Because I was learning today about brown, brown adipose, is it brown adipose tissue and white adipose tissue?

• 36:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:32Chris Williamson?

  Literally reading about that this morning so that I could, I could drop that knowledge bomb for you right there.

• 36:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, that is an amazing knowledge bomb. Yes, my adipose tissue, I don't know that they're telling me whether it's brown or white in the DEXA scan, but I do know that I am on the high end there. But we're talking not about a huge amount in, in comparison. Like the adipose tissue, I think I'm at like four pounds or three, three something, which to me I go like, that's nothing. But if you think about what it is, it's this very, very thin sheet of fat that's surrounding all your organs.

• 37:16Speaker 01

  So I don't know if that's just the last place your body takes fat from, that I've built it up.

• 37:24Chris Williamson?

  That's when you know, man, that's when you know you're lean, when your pancreas lean. When you can see, when you can see it secreting hormones, that's when you know that you've nailed it. But dude, that's, that's sick. And the next goal is sub 10%?

• 37:37Speaker 01

  Sub 10% is the next goal. This cut will take me to sub 10% to cut I'm doing now.

• 37:42Chris Williamson?

  Fuck, man.

• 37:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, which I'm stoked about.

• 37:45Chris Williamson?

  I was saying, and then mass phase?

• 37:48Speaker 01

  Then mass phase, which I haven't done. I mean, the, the mass phase I did was completely mindless and it was a hundred plus pounds of massing, which is so upsetting because, you know, I just didn't do it right at all.

• 38:06Chris Williamson?

  The thing about anyone that does a bulk, and this is even the hardest of hard gain teenagers at 17 years old taking mutant mass, like. You have to lose that at some point.

• 38:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. But I wasn't even thinking in those terms. I was just thinking, I, I want to put on weight because for work, I think work will like me more bigger. But I like lifting weights. I've, I like exercising. So I'm just going to do both. I wasn't thinking in those terms at all. Like the terms I'm thinking in now are, can I put on a pound and a half of muscle?

• 38:43Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 38:43Speaker 01

  And then lose the 10 pounds of fat that come with that. Like, you know, I'm thinking about it scientifically.

• 38:50Chris Williamson?

  You're gonna, you are going to absolutely love a well-adjusted mass phase with some good output. Your training is going to feel better. Libido is going to be better. Everything's going to improve. And I've been telling Malice this over and over again, man. Like, it was me that told him on this podcast, ask your coach about a re-feed day, because I feel like you might be pushing the deficit a little bit hard. You're struggling with your training output. And the red pill that he's going to get fed and that I feel that you're kind of on the, on the way to, to eating as well, is that when you start to do that, when you start to build those calories back up,

• 39:29Chris Williamson?

  it becomes like you, you stay the same condition and it starts to fill out and you're like, this is sick. My lifts are going up. I feel great. I'm sleeping well. I'm full all the time. Like, it's just, it is awesome, man. So I'm super, I'm stoked to see what happens when you start to do that.

• 39:49Speaker 01

  I can't wait. I will say just on maintenance, because I've been doing maintenance for about three months now. My whole quarantine has been maintenance until June 1st, I started my cut. I, I felt physically incredible, like.

• 40:06Speaker 01

  I was, it's been so awful not to be able to go to a gym.

• 40:11Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 40:11Speaker 01

  Because I'm really strong and have all this energy. And like, it's a little bittersweet that I'm starting this cut and gyms will open eventually soon and I'll be on a cut.

• 40:23Chris Williamson?

  You know? I was strong two months ago, I swear.

• 40:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, in my basement, you know, lifting my kettlebell, I was an animal.

• 40:31Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, honestly, I promise. And so I wanted to bring up something that I think is quite timely, which is the difference in the public response to your transformation. And the public's response to Adele's transformation. What are your thoughts on that?

• 40:48Speaker 01

  I want to back up for one minute to say that it is stark from what I've looked at in the news. And even comments I've gotten on social media and even conversations I've had in life. And it's kind of heartbreaking that I've gotten only seemingly only accolades. You know, every, for every 200 comments on social media, there's a guy going, you're still fat. And I'm like, okay, I can't win with you.

• 41:19Chris Williamson?

  You're a dick.

• 41:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, nothing I will ever do will be good for you. So you're not my guy.

• 41:28Speaker 01

  And to hear anybody say anything, look, I look at pictures of Adele at any point and I think she's a pretty girl. An attractive girl. But I see the most recent, I think there's only one picture I've seen of her recently where she's like, she is ecstatic. And she is glowing and she is doing a look at me picture, right? And I'm like, she's not nearly as happy in these other pictures. She's winning awards and she's fucking hot. She's dope singer, like all this, and she looks clearly happy. But she is not as stoked in those earlier pictures.

• 42:07Speaker 01

  So I'm, how can you be anything but like stoked for this girl and go like, I want to pat her on the back and say you did great. The fact that anybody can tie any kind of psychological bullshit that only exists within themselves onto her and say that she's harming people or whatever, I think is ridiculous. You know, she's a girl who had a goal, who made her goal, or got as close to it as she possibly could. I have had that in 2012 or 11, when I was obsessively bicycling and I got what I felt like was too thin. There were stories that paparazzi would follow me around riding

• 42:51Speaker 01

  my bike and take pictures of the loose skin on my legs and write like the downside of weight loss and look at how terrible he looks. Like I had, I experienced that. So I, I don't know what it is. I certainly wasn't as confident in myself then. So I kind of would see these stories and go, yeah, they're right. I, I don't look great. I'm, they're right. I couldn't argue with them. And this time I was releasing pictures of myself going like, I fucking fuck you if you think I don't look good. I know I look good.

• 43:31Chris Williamson?

  First off, if anyone has the balls to come up to someone who now looks like you and say that, they're a very brave person, you know?

• 43:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, I will crush you.

• 43:39Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, look, I've got two 50 cows, right? I've got one 50 cal in my left hand, another one in my right, and I've got a belt fed machine gun chain of bullets around my, don't fuck with me.

• 43:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. I, I don't, I, I think girls have it harder than guys do as far as the aesthetics go, you know, which is, maybe that's publicly because I know like guys with each other, like me and my friends are constantly picking each other apart, you know, and talking about. Bizarre things that really shouldn't matter, but they do matter to us. And you know, how, how does your bicep vein rest at the exact center of your bicep? Or is it cocked over to one side? And how do we fix that?

• 44:26Chris Williamson?

  You know, we all know, we all know each other's pain points as well, right? Like, you know, the thing you can say to your buddy, like, everyone's got that one lad friend who's going a little bit thin, a little bit early in life. And you know, you can always be like, dude, just put something on your head, like the shine off the top of it's killing me. Or you've got like the guy that's a bit short or the guy that's a bit whatever, you know, they do that. And I wonder, I don't know, man, I, I was fascinated watching the Adele situation unfold. And the layers upon layers of people saying, congratulations, Adele, you've done really well. This is great. You're a role model for people to lose weight. Then there was the reaction that was, um, big girls don't think that just because Adele's lost weight

• 45:11Chris Williamson?

  to conform to society's beauty ideals, that you need to lose weight as well. You're beautiful too. Then there was the like third layer of people that were saying, how dare these people say that she shouldn't have lost weight? This is, and I'm like, this is like Dante's Inferno. We're just descending through all the layers of hell here. Like there are certain things that are unarguable facts. Obesity is an all cause mortality risk. Fact number one.

• 45:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, stop.

• 45:43Chris Williamson?

  You die sooner of everything if you're fat. So anybody that says you singer in the public limelight should sacrifice your health, literally sacrifice your life, your mortality, your risk of everything to be a role model for other people to also shorten their lives.

• 46:07Chris Williamson?

  That that sort of blew my mind, but on the flip side of that, when especially when I contrasted that with your journey, I'm like, wow, there is something going on here between, is it because of who you are? Is it because of the industry you're in? I don't think so. Is it because of your gender? I think it is. I think I think the vast majority of it is that guys have a bigger overton window, like a larger leeway of guys can kind of get real thin, guys can get real fat. And it's kind of just like, we're just still a bloke, you know, there is, there is no beauty standard for men. There's like a hotness standard, but you're supposed to have like a

• 46:49Chris Williamson?

  long hair coming out your nose that you haven't seen once in a while, which gentlemen are under the age of 30, these random things are going to begin happening to you where you're just going to find like an elephant hair in the middle of your forehead and time's a cruel mistress. Like all this stuff's gonna happen, but you're right. Like there's this, there's still sort of this beauty standard for women, even as you get all that Dame Judi Dench, you know, being graceful as she gets towards later age and stuff like that. And I don't know what it is, man. I don't know. What I do know is that I was real disheartened by women's response to Adele.

• 47:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, me too. And men, but it's some men too, who are male feminists who are like,

• 47:32Chris Williamson?

  but yeah, man, it's just looking to please some group by saying the right thing. They were playing the please the women game. Yeah, but like, girls and guys were supportive of you. Yeah. The vast majority of guys that I saw commenting online were either commenting on women slating Adele or complimenting Adele. Yeah. But then the girl's side of stuff, I wasn't seeing much vitriol from men. I was seeing a lot of vitriol from girls and it's like, Hang on a second, are we not supposed to be backing our own team here? Like, you need to gas up the people who you want to do well in life. Like, Adele is an amazing role model for girls.

• 48:13Chris Williamson?

  Yes, maybe that makes someone who is overweight uncomfortable at the fact that Adele was showing me that you can be both successful and overweight. But now you have someone who is showing you that if you are overweight, you can be in a healthy range, not because of society's beauty standards. Forget that, like, I'm not playing that game. I'm playing the game of you will live longer and by the judgment of her photo, and as you identified yourself, this glow that she had, potentially be happier.

• 48:46Speaker 01

  Yeah. I think that, I think there's, there can be a lot of things that are true at the same time, which for me,

• 48:59Speaker 01

  there does become a level of subjectivity to health. So, yes, if we are urging towards long-term survival,

• 49:10Speaker 01

  not being overweight benefits that, sure. But at the same time, I go like, what business is of mine how people choose to live? You know, so I'm like, you want to drink, you want to do drugs, you want to drive your car too fast, you want to do reckless things, you want to get coronavirus. I don't really care. Don't fucking mess with me and don't do unsafe things to me and we're good. And I know there is some argument that talks about the burden on healthcare with obesity, that it suddenly does become, affect larger numbers of people. And I go like, that's too abstract for me.

• 49:54Speaker 01

  If we're talking about individuals, how an individual chooses to live doesn't really matter to me and I won't criticize them. I've noticed quite a bit recently of...

• 50:10Speaker 01

  Young girls who, when I was a kid, you would never see an overweight young girl in kind of a midriff shirt showing her belly. You wouldn't see that. And I see it today. And the girls seem to have... I choose girls because this is... I have four daughters and I'm just more aware of their friends and like what girls are doing than I am with young guys. There is a higher sense of confidence, certainly, or a less of a shame around being overweight, which I think is a good thing, because I don't think... I think that it's, for me, there was something about

• 50:55Speaker 01

  being introverted and most of my eating was, which I do consider to be harming myself, self-harm, was being done privately because I was ashamed of it. And I didn't ever have the confidence in myself to try and change that until I met a girl who didn't seem to care about it at all. And then I went like,

• 51:20Speaker 01

  "Fuck, I'm worthwhile, you know? I'm gonna do something about this." And it was kind of this kind of magical confluence of events that led me to be able to do that. So I wouldn't posit my ideas on Adele, but I... You see it quite a bit in people who become successful and then lose weight. And it's a, you know, it could be part of that like confidence boost. When I... I have

• 51:51Speaker 01

  tens of thousands of private messages on Instagram, which I will never get through all of them. It's just not possible. And every now and again, I'll open it and I'll pick one at random. And more commonly than not, it's somebody saying, "You made me less ashamed as a fat person." Uh, because you seemed to be very successful and were a very confident fat person, which is not necessarily true. I was not a super confident fat person. And now that you've lost the weight, you've inspired me to also do that. That's like a double whammy.

• 52:28Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, man.

• 52:29Speaker 01

  Fucking don't I feel good about myself, you know?

• 52:32Chris Williamson?

  Dude, that's so amazing.

• 52:34Speaker 01

  It's amazing because I don't think people should be going around ashamed about their bodies. I think that's not necessarily good. And what my ideas are about health for myself, and even if I think about what I think is right for health for other people, I don't want to put that on them and say that anybody should or should not lose weight. However, I think more often than not, people have the idea of wanting to do something and then feeling incapable of doing it. And so to say like, you can do it, it's totally possible. It's some hard work. And here are these points of inspiration which you could draw from. I think is only a good thing. So I, I, I get very

• 53:20Speaker 01

  torn in, in many directions with like, of course Adele should be patted on the back. She's fucking did something she wanted to do. She didn't do that because somebody said she was gonna sell more records or because her boyfriend's

• 53:38Chris Williamson?

  You don't sell more records than Adele. She's already sold all the records, yeah.

• 53:43Speaker 01

  There you go. She's, she got to a point in her life where she, what, for whatever reason, and who knows what they are. She decided to do this and she did it and she's happy about it and we should only applaud her. We shouldn't build our psychosis into her motives or anything else. I think it's not fair. Um, and

• 54:07Speaker 01

  I don't know if the men are more, give her more affinity for this goal because men are generally or statistically more attracted to thin women. I have no idea what it is, but I see the same thing as you. It's very, very disappointing.

• 54:25Chris Williamson?

  There's just layers to it, which he said, and it's not just, this isn't just like three or four things being true at once. This is like 10 things, 10 different things being true at once. And as we know, people struggle with complexity. It's significantly easier, especially on Twitter, you know, Twitter doesn't have the room, actually does not have the spatial capacity for nuance. You have 360 characters, something like that. You can put across like, Adele is fat, Adele is thin, Adele shouldn't have got thin, Adele should have got, like, you know, you, you can only do a small number of these, of these stories that you put across. But man, like, I think

• 55:04Chris Williamson?

  if you have got messages like that, that said, not only have you given me confidence to be successful at the weight I'm at, but then also to make that transition into being someone who is a more normal BMI. Wow, like.

• 55:20Speaker 01

  That for me is the highest compliment I could have gotten because I don't think people are going to be super successful at achieving a goal, a physical goal out of shame. I just don't think that's true.

• 55:37Speaker 01

  Shame could be early impetus or whatever. I don't know exactly, but I don't think long-term success will come out of shame. I think you need to have confidence in yourself and your abilities and work more from that position. I don't know that a lot of these girls who are body positive have never thought I'd be happier. Look, for me, at the end of the day, I just want to fit in an airline seat. I just want to not have to ask for an extension.

• 56:08Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 56:08Speaker 01

  You know, and, and there's no part of me that thinks they need to make airline seats bigger. I think those are built for averages. Now, as society gets bigger, maybe they will eventually. But like even today, the averages say that that's the seat. So you don't need to make a bigger seat. I would rather just have a body that fits in the average seat. That's all, you know?

• 56:30Chris Williamson?

  I think there's, there's two approaches when you see that happen. There's one, one person who says, good for you and, and I want to use that. And another person who says, oh my God, this identifies my shortcoming. As long as Adele or Ethan remain overweight, that justifies my being overweight. If they're able to do it, oh, ball's in my court now.

• 56:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:58Chris Williamson?

  You know, like one less fat person is one less person on team fat.

• 57:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:03Chris Williamson?

  And one more person on team.

• 57:05Speaker 01

  I think unfortunately that we move, uh, we seemingly move into the realm where,

• 57:17Speaker 01

  the, the group kind of sets the truth and there is less and less individual truth. And so like, if I like, uh, if I like strawberry ice cream and I think it's the greatest ice cream, nothing you say about strawberry ice cream can alter my feeling about strawberry ice cream. So I don't see why anything you say about my feelings about myself should be able to alter my feelings about myself. But we've gotten into this space where. The group can dictate how people view themselves and not only that,

• 58:02Speaker 01

  the group must dictate how people view themselves and I go like you've lost me. I can't play that game. I can only know what's true for me. I cannot say what's true for you. I will not say what's true for you, but I know what's true for me and you can offer a bunch of evidence that may alter my view of what's true for me. That's possible and I welcome you to do that because I'm always looking for new fucking. If I had just stuck with keto, I wouldn't have the muscle definition that I have now. I just wouldn't and I'm so happy that I I'm really pleased with my body right now. That could be sound like the most fucking materialistic vain thing to say,

• 58:47Speaker 01

  but I work my ass off and have been for 20 years on having a body I'm happy with. And I'm like just finally going, check me out. You know what I mean? Like it takes the right lighting, but with the right lighting, I've got a six pack. That's fucking wild dude.

• 59:05Chris Williamson?

  Bro, sub 10%, you're gonna have come gutters, ab veins, the full works.

• 59:11Speaker 01

  I can't wait. Like that is exciting. You know what I mean? And that's just for me and my wife, I guess.

• 59:18Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, I mean, what an investment, what an investment by her as well, you know? One little, one little suggestion of a diet and then before you know it, sort of decade goes by. And then you've got like the 21st century bearded incarnation of Rambo. Yeah, next to you, you know, like fuck this, this is easy, man. What a glow up.

• 59:40Speaker 01

  And she and to her credit too, I was kind of going along just like a couple of years ago after.

• 59:49Speaker 01

  I had been going to the gym and gaining weight and all this. And then for the second series of the show Chance, I decided to lose weight and I was just really hiking. And at one point she was like, you're spending a lot of time out there hiking in the hills behind our house. Um, why don't you work on abs? She says to me and I'm like, oh, abs. Okay, that's interesting. Okay, I'll do that. And it became this intense focus, you know? Um, but she definitely bounces me around and it was literally just her going, I bet you could go to the gym for an hour rather than spending five hours hiking around in the hills. And she was right ultimately.

• 1:00:29Chris Williamson?

  Dude, wives, unfortunately, they just tend to be done. I mean, I wouldn't, I wouldn't know. I'm hopelessly, hopelessly single, which isn't being helped by either this mustache or by lockdown. But, um, it is what it is. Dude, man, this has been awesome. Uh, yeah, I feel like we could have gone on for forever. So you got your podcast, American Glutton?

• 1:00:48Speaker 01

  American Glutton, which is so much fun. Um, yeah. And as soon as we're allowed to work, we'll see what that is like. Belts and machine guns.

• 1:00:57Chris Williamson?

  Dude, I'm so ready for that, you know?

• 1:00:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:00Chris Williamson?

  So ready for it. Look, um, links to Ethan's socials, his fantastic podcast, American Glutton, which you should absolutely go and check out will be linked in the show notes below. If you enjoyed this episode, feel free to give me a message. You know where to find me at Chris Will X on all social media. Man, thanks, Ethan. It's been sick.

• 1:01:17Speaker 01

  Thank you. It was a pleasure. Let's do it again sometime.

• 1:01:19Chris Williamson?

  I'm in.

• 1:01:20Speaker 01

  All right.