Charlie Sheen

Charlie Sheen (The Book of Sheen, Two and a Half Men, Platoon) is a Golden Globe Award-winning actor. Charlie joins the Armchair Expert to discuss the lore of having not one but two of his cars stolen and pushed into a ravine, a two-decades-delayed apology to Dax, and why hiring a ghostwriter for his memoir was a dealbreaker. Charlie and Dax talk about how much of his story is impacted by being the little brother of Emilio Estevez, the math of time required in the attempt to work sustainably as an addict, and his patented ice cube trick. Charlie explains his fixes for Hollywood to stave off the pitfalls of corruptive fame, how leaning into his documentary made room for him to write The Book of Sheen, and that what’s different now is the commitment to be true to his word. Follow Armchair Expert on the Wondery App or wherever you get your podcasts. Watch new content on YouTube or listen to Armchair Expert early and ad-free by joining Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. Start your free trial by visiting wondery.com/links/armchair-expert-with-dax-shepard/ http://www.wondery.com/links/armchair-expert-with-dax-shepard/ now. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Dax Shepard?

  Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. I'm Dax Shepard. I'm joined by Lily Padman.

• 0:05Speaker 01

  Hi.

• 0:06Dax Shepard?

  Um, I am fucking so excited to bring this episode to everybody. This was what an episode.

• 0:13Speaker 01

  It was incredible.

• 0:14Dax Shepard?

  Oh, my God. Oh, my God. If you haven't watched this doc or read this book, you must do it. Have you finished the doc?

• 0:21Speaker 01

  Not yet.

• 0:21Dax Shepard?

  You haven't. I'm so jealous.

• 0:23Speaker 01

  I know. I'm so excited to start it, especially after this podcast. And I was like, oh, my God. First of all, I love him.

• 0:31Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 0:31Speaker 01

  And, and

• 0:33Dax Shepard?

  He is so fucking likeable.

• 0:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 0:35Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Charlie Sheen is an award-winning actor, two and a half men, platoon, Ferris Bueller's Day Off, Wall Street, Spin City. He has a new memoir out called The Book of Sheen, as well as the docu-series on Netflix, AKA Charlie Sheen. All of it's great, and this episode is outrageous. Please enjoy Charlie Sheen. We get support from AG1. Fall is that time when your body and mind are getting ready for the winter. You're settling in, bracing for the cold. Your body's already running a deficit from the shorter days and broken sleep patterns. You don't want a nutrient deficit stacked on top of that, too.

• 1:12Speaker 01

  That's where your AG1 routine earns its spot. It's not fixing your sleep or your alarm time. It's giving your body what it needs so the dark mornings don't tank you before you even start. One scoop cold water every morning before anything else.

• 1:24Dax Shepard?

  AG1 Next Gen has 75-plus ingredients, vitamins, minerals, pre- and probiotic, superfoods, backed by four separate gold standard clinical trials. Key nutrient levels improved with three months of consistent use.

• 1:38Speaker 01

  That's the part people miss. It's not a one-day fix. It's what happens when you stay consistent.

• 1:42Dax Shepard?

  It's an easy, everyday thing. I've added it to my morning routine, and I'm gonna tell you, I actually love the taste of it. It's like Pavlovian. I drink it, and I know, mm, I'm gonna get that little vitamin buzz.

• 1:53Speaker 01

  Well, that's also the thing. When you do it first thing in the morning, you already feel kind of self-esteem because you're like, I already did something good for myself.

• 2:00Dax Shepard?

  Yes. Go to drinkag1.com/dax and for a limited time, get a free immunity bundle, including a bottle of omega-3 fish oil and a bottle of vitamin D3K2 with your first subscription order of AG1 Next Gen or AG1 Pro. That's drinkag1.com/dax. And after checkout, be sure to let them know that Armchair Expert sent you. This episode is supported by Helix.

• 2:27Speaker 01

  Dax, is there anything better than crawling into a perfect bed on a cold fall night? Candlelit, hoodie on, maybe even some rain outside. The dream.

• 2:38Dax Shepard?

  That's the dream. You just described one of my ideal fall nights.

• 2:42Speaker 01

  I know. And thanks to Helix, my bed actually lives up to the vibe. All I had to do was take the Helix Sleep Quiz, and within two minutes, they matched me to a mattress built for exactly how I sleep. I have a midnight mattress. It also has cooling technology, which I really-

• 2:58Dax Shepard?

  Increasingly so.

• 2:59Speaker 01

  I need it. I have to have it. And I heard that you're supposed to sleep at a cold temp for optimal sleep. It's very, very helpful.

• 3:09Dax Shepard?

  She is not wrong. I have one too, and it's been such a game changer for sleep. And I love that they make it so easy. Free shipping right to your door. And with their happy with Helix guarantee, you'll get a full 365 nights to try it. A whole year to live in that cozy. They've got over 20 mattress models, so no matter how you sleep, they've got one for you.

• 3:29Speaker 01

  And it's not just us saying it. Helix has been named the most awarded mattress brand by Forbes, Wired, and more. You gotta try it for yourself.

• 3:36Dax Shepard?

  Go to helixsleep.com/armchair for 20% off site-wide. That's helixsleep.com/armchair for 20% off site-wide. Helixsleep.com/armchair.

• 4:07Speaker 01

  We were just discussing string cheese.

• 4:10Dax Shepard?

  String cheese. Did you get one where you offered one?

• 4:12Speaker 01

  He was offered it.

• 4:13Speaker 02

  And it turned into a thing.

• 4:14Dax Shepard?

  Oh, what was the thing?

• 4:16Speaker 02

  I said, "That'll be the last time, first and last time that I'm offered string cheese." I was gonna say, and she said, "Maybe all year."

• 4:24Dax Shepard?

  That's a good prediction. We're in September.

• 4:26Speaker 01

  No, that's-

• 4:27Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah. And Christmas in string cheese aren't natural bedmates.

• 4:31Speaker 01

  Mm-mm.

• 4:32Speaker 02

  Not even much.

• 4:32Dax Shepard?

  No, no. Never seen the spread, and there was like a platter of string cheese, right?

• 4:37Speaker 01

  There should be.

• 4:39Dax Shepard?

  Oh my God. ABR, we're always recording. My shirt even. See that? Yes. Yes.

• 4:45Speaker 01

  Stands for always be recording.

• 4:47Dax Shepard?

  I see. Okay, okay. You know what it's a play on, obviously. You're a cinephile. ABR, always be recording. Okay. Where do you think we got that? Glengarry Glen Ross.

• 4:58Speaker 02

  Oh, oh, I was gonna say the CIA.

• 5:01Speaker 01

  That's a good guess.

• 5:03Dax Shepard?

  Always be closing, remember? ABC, always be closing.

• 5:06Speaker 02

  Okay, for sure, I remember that. So it's just a play on that.

• 5:08Dax Shepard?

  That's all.

• 5:09Speaker 02

  They didn't say that in Glengarry.

• 5:11Speaker 01

  They didn't say ABR, no.

• 5:13Dax Shepard?

  They said always be closing.

• 5:14Speaker 02

  Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, got it. Okay, cool.

• 5:16Dax Shepard?

  First I want to start with, I haven't seen you in a bazillion years.

• 5:19Speaker 02

  Oh my gosh, right?

• 5:20Dax Shepard?

  Yes, and I want to say, if memory serves, it was when you lived in a neighborhood, I knew a guy who lived in your neighborhood, was sober, who hosted a meeting.

• 5:28Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 5:29Dax Shepard?

  We'll leave him out of it.

• 5:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 5:31Dax Shepard?

  But I went to his meeting at his house, and I do believe I met you there once or twice, and then maybe another house meeting once or twice, but it's been decades.

• 5:38Speaker 02

  Was this person in the house that my brother used to live in with Paula Abdul?

• 5:44Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, across from Shaquille.

• 5:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 5:47Speaker 01

  Oh, that's exciting.

• 5:48Speaker 02

  But there was the other meeting.

• 5:50Dax Shepard?

  In Bel Air?

• 5:51Speaker 02

  In Bel Air.

• 5:51Dax Shepard?

  So that's Tom Hanson, who's my best friend.

• 5:54Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 5:54Dax Shepard?

  He would host that.

• 5:55Speaker 02

  Is it still going on?

• 5:57Dax Shepard?

  No, during COVID it went away, then it went to Zoom, and then another friend kind of started hosting it in a smaller configuration.

• 6:03Speaker 02

  I got you.

• 6:04Dax Shepard?

  But regardless, can I tell you, the funniest thing is I kind of met you at this meeting, and I somehow was aware of which house yours was in that neighborhood.

• 6:12Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 6:13Dax Shepard?

  And I remember there was a period where you stopped coming to the meeting, and I just remember on Tuesday nights as I would drive by your house en route to this meeting, I'm like, I doubt that guy's coming, what's happening in that house?

• 6:25Speaker 02

  Sure, yeah.

• 6:25Dax Shepard?

  And then I would drive out and I would just be like, I wonder what's happening in there, because he was...

• 6:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:29Speaker 01

  No one ever came and knocked and was like, come on over.

• 6:33Speaker 02

  The only knocks that I would get occasionally were guys carrying badges.

• 6:37Speaker 01

  Sure, sure, sure.

• 6:38Dax Shepard?

  Investigating cars that had been...

• 6:40Speaker 02

  How about that? How about that thing? Wow.

• 6:43Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I need more info on that.

• 6:45Speaker 02

  I do too. And literally, to this day, everyone still thinks I was a part of it.

• 6:50Dax Shepard?

  It's some kind of an insurance fraud.

• 6:52Speaker 02

  Based on like...

• 6:53Dax Shepard?

  I know, you had plenty of money.

• 6:54Speaker 02

  You know what I'm saying? And I loved the car.

• 6:56Dax Shepard?

  Yes, so Monica hasn't seen the doc nor has she read the book.

• 6:59Speaker 01

  On purpose because I need to act as the audience. The audience might not know what you're talking about.

• 7:04Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 7:05Speaker 01

  So let's get some more deets.

• 7:06Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, so you had this beautiful S-Class Mercedes.

• 7:09Speaker 02

  Correct, yeah.

• 7:09Dax Shepard?

  This was on the news and this was during like, things are starting to become pretty wild, right?

• 7:14Speaker 02

  A little bit.

• 7:14Dax Shepard?

  They're simmering.

• 7:15Speaker 02

  There's a simmer, yes, indeed.

• 7:16Dax Shepard?

  And all of a sudden on the news, they're like, Charlie Sheen's Mercedes was stolen and driven into a ravine.

• 7:22Speaker 02

  Yeah. Oh. Off of Mulholland. Oh. Four hundred feet down this ravine in the dead of night. Why? I was, I was up to no good that night. Sure. And I see the phone ring and it says Mercedes Benz, something. Dealership or something?

• 7:40Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, like safety alert, right?

• 7:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 7:41Dax Shepard?

  Like, I'm sure the airbags deployed and they were probably calling to see if you were dead.

• 7:45Speaker 02

  Right, so I'm high out of my mind. It was the first night I ever ventured into a paid chat thing. What is that called? Like a web thing?

• 7:53Dax Shepard?

  Oh, okay, okay.

• 7:54Speaker 02

  Right, like a nudie?

• 7:55Dax Shepard?

  Like an OnlyFans typey?

• 7:56Speaker 02

  Before that, yeah, when it was still- Like a chat room, but maybe you had to pay?

• 8:01Dax Shepard?

  A love line with video.

• 8:02Speaker 02

  Thank you. Got it. Somewhere, maybe in Sweden, I don't know. Okay, wow. Switzerland. And I was waiting and waiting and waiting and I see the countdown and I got a minute to go, right? And Mercedes called and I've been waiting for like an hour. And I pick up, I'm like, hello? And they're like, are you okay, sir? I'm like, in a minute, I'll be better.

• 8:22Dax Shepard?

  I'm impatient, is that what the alarm said?

• 8:25Speaker 02

  I guess. So, she's, okay, your airbag just deployed. I said, well, that's weird because my car's in my driveway. Right. And she said, sir, is there any you could stay on the phone with me and let me know if your car's in your driveway? It was a stationary phone. I said, no, but I'll leave it off the thing, I'll run down there and I'll come back. Yeah. And I come down there and it was one of those things where you think your mind is playing a trick on you. The car's just gone. Yes. Then I'm like, oh shit, the kids, right? I run and check on the kids, they're still there.

• 8:50Dax Shepard?

  They got the car, did they get the kids?

• 8:51Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 8:52Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 8:52Speaker 02

  Oh, God. But they were with the nanny and I got back on the phone and I said, the car's gone. And she's like, okay, do you want to report it? I'm like, uh, I mean, maybe not right this minute. I'll call you back. Exactly. So this whole thing, that took maybe seven minutes. As I'm still on with her, the doorbell rings. I'm like, oh shit, hold on, I mean, let me call you back, right? And I run down, I'm in a room, I'm sweating, hair, eyes, the whole thing, right?

• 9:16Speaker 01

  And I open the door and there's two cops.

• 9:19Speaker 02

  Oh geez.

• 9:19Dax Shepard?

  Just so you wanna see.

• 9:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I'm in a robe and I'm like, um, hi, how, how, how can I help you? Hello, officers. And they said, first of all, we're glad you're okay. We need to just take a look at your body. I'm not in the best shape at the time, but they asked me to like lift the robe and they're looking at my legs. So I start putting it together. They wanted to see if there were like scratches or cuts or dirt or branches.

• 9:41Dax Shepard?

  Yes, that you had dumped.

• 9:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, I drove it and then.

• 9:44Dax Shepard?

  Ran from the scene.

• 9:45Speaker 02

  Climbed up the canyon, 400 feet through dense foliage and brush.

• 9:50Dax Shepard?

  Not to mention what injuries you had assisting.

• 9:52Speaker 02

  Exactly, exactly.

• 9:54Speaker 01

  Maybe they thought you pushed it off.

• 9:56Dax Shepard?

  Or just drove it off and then didn't wanna get a DUI.

• 9:58Speaker 02

  Right, exactly. And the timeline was so compressed, there's no way I could have made it up there. I mean, that would have taken at least, what, 20 minutes? No, that would have been in great shape, even in great shape, yeah. Oh, wait, but then I would have had to sprint down Mulholland like two miles back to my house.

• 10:16Speaker 01

  You would have needed an accomplice, somebody else that would have driven you back.

• 10:21Speaker 02

  Right, or they'd owned a helicopter, you know, and I'm like, what are we doing? But it was the weirdest thing because I had a Chevron card. Remember we used to have like gas cards to the specific gas station?

• 10:31Dax Shepard?

  Sure, mobile shell.

• 10:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's on a Chevron card that was used later on that same night. And they had video of the guy using it. And the cops showed up like a few days later and they played it for me. The guy had a limp, it was like right out of the movies, right? And my brain wanted to latch on to a memory that it couldn't come to terms with. It was the strangest thing. And I felt that if I could be hypnotized, that I would know who that was.

• 10:56Dax Shepard?

  Because the limp was such a giveaway. You'd be like, well, I'd remember a man with a limp.

• 10:59Speaker 02

  Yes, it was like one cell from closure or connection. But if I get hypnotized, then I can't be used as a witness in a case, correct?

• 11:08Dax Shepard?

  I don't know.

• 11:09Speaker 01

  Is that true?

• 11:09Speaker 02

  Doesn't that disqualify somebody?

• 11:11Speaker 01

  I've never heard that.

• 11:12Speaker 02

  Do we have a research team?

• 11:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, we do a fact check after this, so I will be looking it up. That's true.

• 11:17Speaker 02

  Okay, I think that's a thing. But then it was a show night, so I still had to like somehow get a couple hours sleep, learn some dialogue.

• 11:24Dax Shepard?

  And you never connected with the gal in Sweden, I can't.

• 11:26Speaker 02

  I did not, I did not.

• 11:28Dax Shepard?

  So this is kind of a love lost story. The ones that got away.

• 11:33Speaker 02

  Then when I got to the stage, you know, there's Chuck Lorre and Lee Aronson, they're kind of looking at me because we had to push the run through back like an hour or two hours.

• 11:40Dax Shepard?

  And it's now all over the news, correct?

• 11:42Speaker 02

  It is everywhere, everywhere. And so they looked at me in a way, kind of like, so what happened? And it wasn't like, hey, man, are you okay?

• 11:50Dax Shepard?

  No way, you lost that, right? Yeah. Well, you burned that up a while ago.

• 11:55Speaker 02

  Instantly guilty when I walked in.

• 11:57Dax Shepard?

  But that's one of the costs of being an addict is you lose benefit of the doubt.

• 12:00Speaker 02

  You do.

• 12:02Dax Shepard?

  Which is reasonable, a little bit.

• 12:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, but if you just break down the mechanics of what would be required to pull that off. If I had pulled it off, I'd be bragging about that like this many years later.

• 12:15Dax Shepard?

  Exactly, yes. It would take a normal man 20 minutes to go up the hill and I was up in eight.

• 12:19Speaker 02

  Exactly, exactly.

• 12:20Dax Shepard?

  Now, do you get defensive in those moments when he's like, so what happened?

• 12:24Speaker 02

  Instantly, but I've gotten better over the years, yeah.

• 12:27Dax Shepard?

  We just had an expert on yesterday and he was saying that one of the things that humans respond most severely to is being accused of something they didn't do. Yes. And he kind of said, how do you feel about that? And I said, well, I hate it with the irony of I've gotten away with so much stuff. That you did do. Like, and then the time I get pulled over sober and the guy's like, how many drinks you have tonight? I'm like, I haven't drank since 19, you know?

• 12:49Speaker 02

  Right, right, right.

• 12:50Dax Shepard?

  I forget the fact that I got away with it so many times.

• 12:53Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 12:54Dax Shepard?

  Okay, now the punchline to the story, Monica, if I have this right is, that's not the only time this car was.

• 13:02Speaker 02

  That is not the only time.

• 13:06Dax Shepard?

  Same car?

• 13:07Speaker 02

  No.

• 13:08Dax Shepard?

  That car was, I told him, I was a ride off.

• 13:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, I replaced it with the identical cars.

• 13:13Dax Shepard?

  Oh, sure.

• 13:13Speaker 02

  I love that car, you know? And it happened again. I don't even know the timeframe that it's connected to. It literally happened again.

• 13:22Speaker 01

  And this time it also wasn't you?

• 13:24Speaker 02

  It still wasn't me, Monica.

• 13:27Speaker 01

  Cause I can see the second time of being like, let me just see if I could do it.

• 13:30Speaker 02

  Right, right. Now I know.

• 13:32Dax Shepard?

  Now I wanna do it, cause I already paid the price.

• 13:35Speaker 02

  Right, and now I know what they're looking for.

• 13:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. Let's see if I can get away with it this time.

• 13:40Speaker 02

  What a trip.

• 13:41Dax Shepard?

  Okay, so Monica, one thing that can't really happen in one person's lifetime is that guy just pushed into a ravine and then it happened a second time.

• 13:47Speaker 02

  Why did one of them have left the keys in that second car again?

• 13:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:51Speaker 02

  That's the moron in the story moment that I'll own. When the guy came to the door, I thought it was a gag.

• 13:56Dax Shepard?

  The second time.

• 13:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, because there's a gentleman named Eddie Braun, he's been my stunt double for like a thousand years, and he does that kinda shit.

• 14:03Speaker 01

  Uh, pranks.

• 14:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, elaborate shit like that.

• 14:07Dax Shepard?

  Stop me in pranks.

• 14:08Speaker 02

  Exactly, that involve usually vehicles, right? And the cop's there, and it's so surreal, I'm really suspicious, and I'm like, did Ed put you up to this? Are you a friend of Eddie B?

• 14:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:20Speaker 02

  And he's like, I don't know an Eddie B, it was a repeat, I need to take a look at your body.

• 14:25Dax Shepard?

  Can you imagine if you're the cop, you get the call and say it's Charlie Sheen's cars there, and again, I saw that on the news, and then you go up there and he has a, are you buddies with Eddie? I would be like, this guy is on another plan.

• 14:39Speaker 01

  That's so funny, both of you are having the exact same experience. The cop is like, what? And you are like, what? Everyone's having the exact same experience.

• 14:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 14:49Speaker 01

  So wild.

• 14:50Speaker 02

  Madness.

• 14:51Speaker 01

  Whoever did that, kind of kudos, cause that is sort of funny.

• 14:55Speaker 02

  Oh, wait, I'm sorry, if I'm not mistaken, the Chevron card was left in the second vehicle.

• 15:03Dax Shepard?

  Oh.

• 15:04Speaker 02

  Yes, that happened.

• 15:06Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 15:06Speaker 02

  So that was spooky.

• 15:08Dax Shepard?

  Uh huh.

• 15:08Speaker 02

  That was a message.

• 15:10Speaker 01

  Do you think it was the same person?

• 15:12Speaker 02

  Well, they would've had to had it.

• 15:13Dax Shepard?

  Oh, you're saying the original Chevron was returned?

• 15:17Speaker 02

  Was left in the center console of the second car that was pushed over.

• 15:21Speaker 01

  What?

• 15:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, so it was like they're sending a message, like. No, that's when it crossed over into just creepier terrain, you know? Ew. Not cool.

• 15:30Dax Shepard?

  Am I wrong in that there was some suspicion that the second go around was someone that you had maybe been partying with that evening who decided to take your car? Not someone on the real inner circle?

• 15:40Speaker 02

  Right, right, right. No, that's a good hypothesis.

• 15:42Dax Shepard?

  Again, I don't mean to accuse the addict.

• 15:44Speaker 02

  Not at all, not at all, no.

• 15:45Dax Shepard?

  We do end up with some folks we wouldn't otherwise end up with, we would agree.

• 15:48Speaker 02

  Many of them, yeah, in droves. Now, I think that was a pretty Vahn solo night as well.

• 15:57Dax Shepard?

  Okay, there's no funny business.

• 15:59Speaker 02

  No, but that one didn't get nearly as much press because people are like, oh my god.

• 16:04Dax Shepard?

  They were like, if we run this story, people will think they're watching a rerun of the news.

• 16:07Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 16:08Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, we can't put it up.

• 16:09Speaker 02

  And they would just use the same copy and just change the date, right?

• 16:13Dax Shepard?

  Same footage, maybe.

• 16:14Speaker 02

  Save a bunch of work, yeah. Same car.

• 16:16Dax Shepard?

  Don't even send the fucking camera crew, the B-roll team.

• 16:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, isn't that crazy? Yeah. And here's the thing, I think people get a sense of me at this point, especially with the book and the doc, and I've been really forthcoming with, hey, man, here's everything. Yeah. I think they have to assume that by now, I would say, okay, I'm gonna set the record straight. That whole Mercedes thing, I wish I had like the coolest story ever to explain what the motivation was, what my goals were, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, like, why would you keep just this thing still secret?

• 16:48Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 16:49Speaker 02

  Devil's advocate moment?

• 16:50Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I first say, a hundred percent, I think this is all what happened.

• 16:54Speaker 02

  Okay, thank you.

• 16:55Dax Shepard?

  Additionally, certainly you and I have had some moments where you like wake up and you're seeing some things and some clues and some evidence you're trying to put together. This happened to me. I woke up, my fucking ribs were so sore. I'm like, what is... And I'm missing a day. And then I'm like, oh, I'm in a lot of pain. And I go outside and I see my Harley's laying on the ground on its side.

• 17:15Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 17:15Dax Shepard?

  And I'm like, okay, so I think I decided to go for a motorcycle ride. Clearly I didn't make it out of the parking stall.

• 17:22Speaker 01

  Thank God.

• 17:23Dax Shepard?

  I guess this rip stuff is me, I guess, trying to pick it up for a while, maybe?

• 17:27Speaker 02

  Is that what I? Damn.

• 17:29Dax Shepard?

  And you can't find the motive at some point. You do do things where they defy the sober brain.

• 17:34Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 17:35Dax Shepard?

  To understand what the goal was in that moment. Cause you can get fixated on an insane goal that doesn't make any sense in the light of day.

• 17:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 17:43Dax Shepard?

  So I believe 1,000% and it's not hard for me to imagine one iota how you convinced yourself you did need to push the second car into the rearview.

• 17:52Speaker 01

  That would be hilarious.

• 17:56Speaker 02

  Oh my God, just the energy involved.

• 17:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:59Speaker 02

  It's definitely been a bad high, you know?

• 18:01Dax Shepard?

  I can see yourself like up day three and thinking somehow that that will set the record straight.

• 18:06Speaker 02

  But how?

• 18:07Dax Shepard?

  Like, how does that?

• 18:08Speaker 02

  It doesn't. How does it close that circle?

• 18:10Speaker 01

  But people on drugs are not really doing hows often.

• 18:13Dax Shepard?

  That's my point is like, yes, you and I now know that that would in no way right this injustice.

• 18:19Speaker 02

  Right, right, right.

• 18:20Dax Shepard?

  But I do know that there have been moments in my level of intoxication where I would think, I gotta set the record straight and push my car off this thing.

• 18:26Speaker 02

  Interesting.

• 18:26Dax Shepard?

  That's a thought I could have.

• 18:28Speaker 02

  I just genuinely, I don't think I had the energy.

• 18:32Dax Shepard?

  No, no.

• 18:33Speaker 02

  You know what I'm saying?

• 18:34Dax Shepard?

  I don't either.

• 18:34Speaker 02

  I mean, gosh, that's just exhausting. I mean, I've never pushed a car off a cliff. I assume it's an exhausting endeavor, right?

• 18:42Dax Shepard?

  The other thing is, don't you think someone would drive by and see a man?

• 18:47Speaker 01

  I know.

• 18:47Dax Shepard?

  Was seen like, that's gonna take a while.

• 18:49Speaker 02

  In a bathrobe, yeah. Yeah. The first one, they used my car as the mule to then drive around the whole neighborhood and hit all the garages.

• 18:56Dax Shepard?

  Oh, they did?

• 18:57Speaker 02

  And see what they could pilfer, yeah. And then they also took some stuff from my place they thought was valuable and they grabbed this one box and it was all these VHS tapes, like 25 episodes of Spin City on VHS. Jeff Ballard, R.I.P., God rest him. My publicist of 30 years said, hey, let's get these transferred one day. I'm like, yeah, I'll get to that whenever. And they stole the box of Spin City VHS and they were dumped on Mulholland, like in the middle of the road, like.

• 19:24Dax Shepard?

  Oh, no.

• 19:25Speaker 02

  It's a weird way to tell a guy, we didn't like that show.

• 19:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, we were a fan.

• 19:30Speaker 02

  You know?

• 19:30Dax Shepard?

  They might've been really excited about the box of VHS tapes. Maybe they even thought they were adult films. And then someone popped open the thing in the back saying, that's fucking Spin City. We've been had.

• 19:40Speaker 02

  Out with the.

• 19:42Speaker 01

  The car might have been too heavy to push.

• 19:45Dax Shepard?

  Without getting.

• 19:46Speaker 01

  So it was like, we gotta start shedding stuff.

• 19:49Dax Shepard?

  That's what I'm.

• 19:49Speaker 01

  I didn't do it, but I am getting in the minds.

• 19:53Speaker 02

  I'm getting a sense of how your mind works. It's a trip.

• 19:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, well.

• 19:56Speaker 02

  This is a beautiful pairing. Wow.

• 19:57Dax Shepard?

  She's a nice mix of like presents nice, but could kill if necessary.

• 20:02Speaker 01

  If necessary.

• 20:03Speaker 02

  Good. I'm getting behind you if it goes sideways.

• 20:05Dax Shepard?

  I will say this. Monica started out with Kristen and I as a babysitter 10 years ago.

• 20:10Speaker 02

  Oh, wow.

• 20:11Dax Shepard?

  This got elevated to she was Kristen's assistant. And then one of the very first things somehow we made her do, or Kristen made her do was people were coming over to look at a duplex we just bought to rent.

• 20:22Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 20:23Dax Shepard?

  And she goes in with this couple and the couple says, where's the washer and dryer and refrigerator? Which they had seen in the previous trip over. So someone had broken into this duplex and stolen all of the appliances.

• 20:38Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I'm finding out real time with the people who, you know, I'm trying to sell it to basically.

• 20:44Dax Shepard?

  And she's 27.

• 20:45Speaker 01

  I was like, oh, they weren't very good. So we're replacing them and we're upgrading.

• 20:50Speaker 02

  Like in the moment?

• 20:51Speaker 01

  I was so proud of myself.

• 20:53Speaker 02

  So you didn't make the place look like it was a prime spot for crime?

• 20:56Speaker 01

  Exactly. Cause who would want to go move into a place where everything was just stolen?

• 21:00Speaker 02

  Right, right, right.

• 21:01Dax Shepard?

  And so she calls me and says that duplex was robbed. There's no appliances. And I was showing the people and I go, well, what'd you say? And she goes, I told them you were upgrading them. And I literally went click like you're invited to be around forever.

• 21:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 21:15Dax Shepard?

  You know how to handle shit when it goes sideways. This is a very valuable quality.

• 21:20Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 21:20Speaker 01

  You gotta think on your feet.

• 21:21Dax Shepard?

  That was a big moment for us, whether you realize it or not.

• 21:24Speaker 02

  A valuable and a rare quality.

• 21:26Dax Shepard?

  A rare thing on their feet, lying to their face.

• 21:29Speaker 01

  I mean, I feel bad.

• 21:32Speaker 02

  There's nothing to feel bad about.

• 21:34Dax Shepard?

  They did get better appliances.

• 21:35Speaker 01

  What if they got robbed?

• 21:37Dax Shepard?

  They didn't. It's never happened.

• 21:38Speaker 01

  Are you sure?

• 21:38Dax Shepard?

  Well, I know, because we still own them.

• 21:40Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 21:41Speaker 02

  They're still there?

• 21:42Dax Shepard?

  We don't.

• 21:42Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 21:43Dax Shepard?

  I don't think they're still there. That was a decade ago.

• 21:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was a long time.

• 21:46Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 21:47Speaker 01

  It'd be great if they were still there. They love it so much.

• 21:49Dax Shepard?

  Yes, I would love to think that that's what it was.

• 21:51Speaker 02

  There's something I've been carrying around for, like, how long ago was the Tom meeting in Bel Air?

• 21:56Dax Shepard?

  Twenty-one years ago.

• 21:58Speaker 02

  Okay. I was a dick to you one night.

• 22:00Dax Shepard?

  Oh.

• 22:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:01Dax Shepard?

  Tell me.

• 22:02Speaker 02

  Like, not cool, like an asshole five thousand.

• 22:06Dax Shepard?

  Tell me, because it's so bizarre I don't remember that.

• 22:09Speaker 02

  The next day, or the next week, or the next month, I was like, I gotta make that right. And here we are twenty years later.

• 22:14Speaker 01

  Oh, this is lovely.

• 22:15Speaker 02

  And I have zero, zero. It was Halloween.

• 22:19Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 22:19Speaker 02

  And we were sharing, Halloween with super tiny children is not fun. It's just not. I mean, it is and it isn't. It's fun for the photo on the fridge later.

• 22:28Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 22:28Speaker 02

  But just the whole, the effort, it's effortful.

• 22:30Dax Shepard?

  A lot of crying generally.

• 22:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:32Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, scary monsters are everywhere. It's just an ideal scenario.

• 22:35Speaker 02

  I was kind of in a pissing mood in my share, and I was bitching about Halloween and just zero gratitude about anything, you know? And then a couple of people later, he started sharing, I don't think you had kids yet, right?

• 22:45Dax Shepard?

  No, no, no, no, no.

• 22:46Speaker 02

  And he's like, yeah, no, we had a great time, went to a couple of parties, and you were like, giving like, the fun version of Halloween.

• 22:51Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 22:52Speaker 02

  In the middle, I said, try it with fucking kids, dude. And it was so inappropriate and unnecessary and uncalled for. So twenty years later, apologies.

• 23:03Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 23:03Speaker 02

  Apologies.

• 23:04Dax Shepard?

  No problem.

• 23:05Speaker 02

  Sorry about that.

• 23:06Dax Shepard?

  Do you find this to be the case? I have found this numerous times. Now, look, there's a lot of people I've made amends to. Thank God I did, and they were really hurt, and that repair had to happen. More often than not, I've called people and said, you know, I did this and I did that. And they're like, I didn't give a fuck.

• 23:22Speaker 02

  Right.

• 23:23Dax Shepard?

  But I'm living with this notion that this person fucking hates me over it and that I felt betrayed by it. I do think that's an interesting part of making amends, is like, you've built up a lot of it in your mind that isn't really there. It's just you're holding it, they weren't.

• 23:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, we've sort of decided the level of trauma for them.

• 23:40Dax Shepard?

  Yes, yes.

• 23:41Speaker 02

  That they've been carrying as a result of our behavior.

• 23:43Dax Shepard?

  And we're not even that important in their life.

• 23:46Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 23:47Speaker 01

  But that's what apologies are, though. They are for you. They're because you don't like the way you behaved. It doesn't match your values or who you want to be. So that's what it's about more than the person.

• 23:59Dax Shepard?

  But I do think the process of making those teaches you crystal clear. Oh, you only carry your own mistakes, really. You don't really carry other people's all that much.

• 24:09Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 24:10Dax Shepard?

  You just go like, yeah, that person's whatever. But what haunts you and gives you shame and tortures you is your mistakes. And I think that has given me some grace in times where people are, in my opinion, wronging me. And I go like, oh, yeah, I'm a little upset today, but I will not think about this in eight years, trying to fall asleep. And that person will. And I don't want that for them. And I actually feel bad in this moment because that's what you're accumulating those things.

• 24:36Speaker 02

  Yeah. The second that this was put on the schedule, and thank you, it's an honor to be here.

• 24:40Dax Shepard?

  Oh, yeah.

• 24:41Speaker 02

  It's an honor for us. I was like, oh, cool. I get to clear up that thing from like two decades ago.

• 24:46Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, but you know what's great? It's a testament to, and I thought this a million times while watching the documentary. I was like, the guy's just so fucking likable.

• 24:55Speaker 02

  Oh, thank you.

• 24:55Dax Shepard?

  You're beyond that. You're likable, you're lovable.

• 24:58Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 24:58Dax Shepard?

  And it's funny because a million different people could have said that in a meeting, and I would have wanted to fight him afterwards. But I just think your likability.

• 25:05Speaker 02

  You're like, ah, it's just Shane, whatever.

• 25:08Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. And maybe even flattered that you are addressing me. I grew up, you know, I'm 10 years younger than you. It's not like I wasn't a fan of yours as a kid. I was. So I'm like, get out of here. The dude from the tour just told me to shut up about doing with kids. That's great.

• 25:23Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 25:23Speaker 01

  It also sounds kind of like a joke. Like maybe I would just think that was funny.

• 25:27Dax Shepard?

  People certainly laughed.

• 25:28Speaker 01

  Right.

• 25:29Speaker 02

  I would have said it with a little bit of a chuckle, though.

• 25:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:32Speaker 02

  Here's the jazz. Yeah, it was sour grapes, man. Yeah.

• 25:36Dax Shepard?

  Okay, so I absolutely love the doc. I've told so many people on here. And I'll tell you, the accomplishment, I think, of it is, in full honesty, I come in for a lot of different things. Like, A, I've met you a couple of times. B, I kind of want a rubberneck. I want to hear some great fucking drug stories. Because I'm a junkie too, and I like those.

• 25:55Speaker 02

  Right.

• 25:56Dax Shepard?

  And I'm totally served that up in a very delicious way. And then it ends in the most satisfying and heartwarming and beautiful way. Then I'm like, my God, this thing worked on every level.

• 26:08Speaker 02

  Oh, wow. Thank you.

• 26:08Dax Shepard?

  I'm really emotional at the end.

• 26:10Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 26:11Dax Shepard?

  I just moved beyond belief. It had everything I could want. It's spectacular.

• 26:15Speaker 02

  Oh, right on. Thank you.

• 26:16Dax Shepard?

  And then I'm two thirds of the way through the book. I'm listening to you.

• 26:19Speaker 02

  Okay, good. Are you getting a sense that the book is telling stories in a different way? Or filling in some blanks from stories in the doc?

• 26:26Dax Shepard?

  Absolutely.

• 26:27Speaker 02

  The ones that overlap?

• 26:28Dax Shepard?

  There's a ton more in the book.

• 26:29Speaker 02

  Right.

• 26:30Dax Shepard?

  And I want to compliment you. I'll be honest with you. While I'm listening to it, I'm like, who did he get to write this book? I thought, oh, you know what? He probably got one of the sitcom writers that wrote for him and really knew how to write in his voice. Cause you know, these great writers, they do that. They learn your voice and they can write for you.

• 26:46Speaker 02

  Mimic it. Yeah.

• 26:46Dax Shepard?

  And it's so funny. I thought, yeah, that's what happened. That's how he sourced this ghostwriter or collaborator or whatever.

• 26:54Speaker 02

  Right, right.

• 26:55Dax Shepard?

  And then I was reading the interview with you and Emilio in Interview today and learned that you actually wrote the whole thing.

• 27:00Speaker 02

  I did.

• 27:01Dax Shepard?

  I was so impressed because A, it's just a very well constructed and formatted book. Like the structure of it's great. It's solid. But your authentic voice is there every sentence.

• 27:12Speaker 02

  Amazing.

• 27:13Dax Shepard?

  Which is hard to do. That's great writing when you can infuse your actual voice onto the page. Yeah.

• 27:18Speaker 02

  Wonderful compliment. Thank you.

• 27:19Dax Shepard?

  It's great. It's really, really good.

• 27:21Speaker 02

  No, that's really cool. Yeah, they tried to put me with the ghostwriter, which rightfully so. You know, with my history and my past or however people perceive me. Right. Says, I'm gonna write a book. And they're like, well, it's an investment they need to protect. Right. They're like, we think you need to work with someone. And I was like, that's a deal breaker. Yeah. There was like an audition phase for a certain amount of chapters. Oh, wow. And then they finally, there was that one day where they're like, let's just leave him alone. Let's let him keep going. That's a testament to Jen Bergstrom and Amy Bell and my team at Schuster. They just went, okay. Good.

• 27:54Dax Shepard?

  Were you typing or handwriting?

• 27:56Speaker 02

  I was handwriting my notes.

• 27:58Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 27:58Speaker 02

  But typing the actual chapters and the manuscript. And I don't type well. Are you a speed typist?

• 28:05Dax Shepard?

  I type pretty fast, but I type with four fingers pretty fast.

• 28:07Speaker 02

  Right, okay.

• 28:08Dax Shepard?

  I can't, what do they call it?

• 28:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's-

• 28:10Dax Shepard?

  Home, home?

• 28:11Speaker 02

  I don't know. It's called something. My son Bob is like 180 words a minute. It's insane. Wow. It's all from gaming. Oh. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I was like, how do you get like a nice paying job? Right. With that kind of typing speed. With that skill, yeah.

• 28:27Dax Shepard?

  You get in a time machine, go back to 1981.

• 28:29Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 28:30Dax Shepard?

  And put them on someone's desk.

• 28:31Speaker 02

  He can be a secretary. You know?

• 28:34Dax Shepard?

  But, okay, as I think about how do I get your life into this interview in some way? Really, it's impossible. There's so much stuff. It's crazy. I mean, I really could do five hours on all the things that I learned in that doc. But I guess there were kind of some thematic things that I wanted to go through.

• 28:52Speaker 02

  And also, I hope they told you, the dude is like wide open, or they probably said, stay away from this shit.

• 28:59Dax Shepard?

  No one said anything.

• 29:00Speaker 02

  Okay, good.

• 29:00Dax Shepard?

  But I know because we're both in a program, that we won't help ourselves even if that was the game plan.

• 29:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, but my thing is like, well, hold on. I put it not just in a documentary. Yeah. I put it in a book that I wrote. Right. If you do that, you better be willing to talk about all of it.

• 29:17Dax Shepard?

  Great. So that's one of my first questions.

• 29:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:19Dax Shepard?

  Because I have at times written things, then put them out there. In the writing, it's fine because I'm in total control and I'm in my room and then I get to decide what gets published. But once it leaves my barn-

• 29:31Speaker 02

  The giant whoosh to the universe?

• 29:32Dax Shepard?

  Don't you have this like, well, I had control and now I don't have-

• 29:35Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. I went through that. It was a powerful moment, though.

• 29:38Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, it's scary, right?

• 29:39Speaker 02

  It's scary. And then I made a decision. I can either stay backpedaling, I can be on my heels, or I could just lean into it.

• 29:46Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 29:47Speaker 02

  I had to lean into it to hit send, right? Yeah. And I'm not like a lean in kind of guy, just by nature. I'm always sort of like, hey, let's talk about this. A little skeptical. Yeah. But I think that was kind of a cool moment to break through, to just say- Release. Yeah, like, all right, what happens next? I could say is none of my business because it is and it isn't. The part about how it's perceived is none of my business. Right. But then it's made my business when I have to talk about it and promote it. Totally. Correct?

• 30:12Dax Shepard?

  Yes. And have you found that some of the stuff is much harder to say out loud than it was to type out?

• 30:18Speaker 02

  It was in the first couple of interviews. And then I caught a snippet of one, because I don't really watch a lot of stuff, but I did catch a clip off of Good Morning America with Michael Strahan, who's amazing. I'm sure you know Michael, right?

• 30:29Dax Shepard?

  I've been on the show and met him, but yeah, I don't know him personally, but he's a great dude.

• 30:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, and so we got into some stuff. I caught like a little section, like a YouTube short, I think of it, right? And I didn't look confident. And I thought, okay, I saw that for a reason, just accidentally flipping past other shit, right?

• 30:46Dax Shepard?

  I needed to know that.

• 30:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I was like, okay, all right, let's change that. If I'm uncomfortable, what's the audience doing?

• 30:52Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, it's contagious.

• 30:53Speaker 01

  Right.

• 30:54Speaker 02

  Dude, really? Ah, shit. Ah, okay.

• 30:56Dax Shepard?

  He looks like he doesn't want to do this, and I can't enjoy it if he doesn't want to do it.

• 30:59Speaker 02

  Right, right, and they're just waiting for me to tell them another apocalypse story or something.

• 31:04Dax Shepard?

  So of the things that we have in common, we have the addiction thing. I want to say I've gone really, really hard. I've gone harder than most of my peers did that I partied with, and I was really, really, really shown a whole nother level in the doc. I didn't think I'd ever hear someone's story and go like, he's got it worse than I do.

• 31:21Speaker 02

  Right.

• 31:22Speaker 01

  You mean the amount?

• 31:23Dax Shepard?

  The amount, the duration. There's periods where his dealer, who goes hard as fuck, they've been smoking crack for three days, the dealer's got to go home and go to sleep. He comes back in a couple of days, Charlie's still at it from a couple of days ago.

• 31:36Speaker 02

  More people have showed up.

• 31:39Dax Shepard?

  With less and less, I don't know how to say it nicely, yeah.

• 31:43Speaker 01

  Of composure.

• 31:44Dax Shepard?

  I always say this, I was weirdly, you do have some inconsistent things as an addict, where it's like you're doing one thing, but then you kind of have this virtue. My thing was I always checked in with my girlfriend. I didn't want her to worry. So it'd be like, I was supposed to come on at two, girl rang at two, hey, I'm going over to this hotel, these guys I just met here, you know? And then I would call her at six, and now I'm in a different motel, now with a motel. Now I'm with six dudes that are even worse than the previous one. And she would go like, you don't have to update me, you know? Okay, I just don't want you to worry about me, even though what I'm telling you is I'm with worse and worse people at worse and worse places.

• 32:17Speaker 02

  You're delivering very worrisome news.

• 32:19Dax Shepard?

  And now I'm in a car, yeah. I'm in a car and goes down.

• 32:22Speaker 02

  Because Dave lives in San Diego, it's like, what the hell?

• 32:25Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 32:25Speaker 02

  What the hell?

• 32:28Speaker 03

  Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert if you dare.

• 32:35Dax Shepard?

  This podcast is brought to you by Squarespace. We've talked before about Rob building our website on Squarespace and I bring it up again because it's a perfect example of what they do well. Rob had all the pieces, the content, the vision, the ideas, but he needed something to actually take all that and make it public facing. And Squarespace was that bridge. Maybe you're in the same spot. You've been developing something, a business, a skillset, a body of work, and it's been private. It's been yours, but at some point you're ready to put it out there and that transition from private to public can feel like a huge leap. Squarespace makes it feel like a step. Beautiful templates, built-in SEO, email campaigns, scheduling, analytics, everything you need to go from "I've been working on this" to "Here it is, come find me."

• 33:20Dax Shepard?

  All in one place, no code, no stitching together a bunch of different tools. So if you've been sitting on something and waiting for the right moment, this might be it. Head to Squarespace.com/dax for a free trial and when you're ready to launch, use offer code DAX to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. We get support from Scottsdale, Arizona. Monica, with summer ending or heading into fall, I've been researching a nice, quick getaway location and I keep coming back to Scottsdale, Arizona.

• 33:51Speaker 01

  Ooh, Scottsdale's good. What's drawing you to it?

• 33:54Dax Shepard?

  Well, first of all, I have this wonderful memory of going there as a kid when I go see my stepdad when he's working out there. The weather is perfect in fall, warm, sunny, no humidity, and you can really do whatever you want with your time there. I want to do a sunrise hike through the Sonoran Desert, be surrounded by Saguaro, and then at the same afternoon, just completely melt into a spa treatment at one of their luxury resorts.

• 34:19Speaker 01

  Oh, that sounds amazing. I want to do that. Also, I was there visiting my brother once and I loved Old Town Scottsdale. It's so walkable. They have galleries and cute little restaurants and shops. The food scene alone is worth the trip.

• 34:33Dax Shepard?

  What I keep reading is that it's luxurious, but not stuffy. There's no pressure to do it a certain way. You can explore public art, check out the architecture, go off-roading in the desert, or just sit and watch a sunset.

• 34:44Speaker 01

  It really is the perfect fall reset.

• 34:46Dax Shepard?

  Learn more about all Scottsdale has to offer at unwindinscottsdale.com. We get support from ZipRecruiter. Oh, get recruiting. So I went down this rabbit hole the other day on real holiday jobs that exist and I couldn't stop. Somebody out there is hiring a ham glazer, a professional ham glazer. Another place is hiring a lead elf, implying a whole hierarchy of elves I had never even considered. Here's the thing, these jobs need real skills. People like that are hard to find. And whether you're hiring for one of these roles or any other role, the best way to find qualified people who are genuinely excited about your role is on ZipRecruiter.

• 35:28Dax Shepard?

  And right now you can try it for free at ziprecruiter.com/dax. Plus ZipRecruiter has a new feature that shows you the most interested qualified candidates first, so you meet the right people faster. No wonder ZipRecruiter is the number one rated hiring site based on G2. Let ZipRecruiter find the right people for your roles, seasonal or otherwise. Try it for free today at ziprecruiter.com/dax. At ziprecruiter.com/dax, meet your match on ZipRecruiter.

• 36:00Dax Shepard?

  This episode is brought to you by ServiceNow. Look, I have my dream job. I get to talk to folks I admire like crazy and ask them virtually any question that I want to. I can't imagine a better way to spend my time. But even dream jobs have some not so dreamy parts, the stuff that gets in the way of the actual work. Now that's where ServiceNow's AI specialists come in. They don't just tell you what you should do about your busy work. They actually do it, start to finish. Cases closed, requests handled, no extra work for you. So you and your team can focus on what matters most, which for me is, are they obsessed with male bodies on the same level as I am?

• 36:43Speaker 01

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• 36:44Dax Shepard?

  To learn how to put AI to work for people, visit servicenow.com.

• 36:55Dax Shepard?

  But in addition to the addict stuff, I see so much of your story in your life, being really impacted by being a little brother. Do you think so? When you like dig into what all's going on?

• 37:06Speaker 02

  Sure. No one has really pointed that out or latched on to that. It was just the proximity of being just within arm's reach of his really fast meteoric fame rise with that group.

• 37:19Dax Shepard?

  And then making peace with that, like, how am I a loser and wanting to be as cool and be invited and be included over here? And then over here, I'm like the person people want to be included by. You're kind of dualistic just by the dynamic you're born in. For me, that's how it was.

• 37:35Speaker 02

  Sure. I experienced a lot of that.

• 37:37Dax Shepard?

  Inferiority and superiority complex working throughout my whole childhood.

• 37:41Speaker 02

  Right. And like from one hour to the next, I wasn't like, oh, last week I was a badass. And then the following week I sucked and I was the valet or the sad puppy dog tagging along.

• 37:52Speaker 01

  Well, was your brother the golden child or was everyone?

• 37:55Speaker 02

  Emilio, he was great in school. He always had a very cute girlfriend. Ramon, who's between Emilio and myself, marched to a different beat. He was a punk rocker, searching for some identity somewhere in the mix of all of it. And then we got, of course, dad leading the charge, you know, have grown up on his sets and watching his successes and failures. And then my sister Renee is below me. But there's a weird point in the year where we're all exactly two years apart.

• 38:21Speaker 01

  Oh, wow.

• 38:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, there's a line in the book about when I went to junior high, which is now middle school, right? And I said, it was being exposed to that many girls with all these hormones, you know? It was either the coolest thing ever or the meanest joke ever played on me, you know? And then I said, only skin clarity will tell. Because think about it, right? You start breaking out, it's over.

• 38:41Dax Shepard?

  It's a rap.

• 38:41Speaker 02

  It is a rap.

• 38:42Speaker 01

  It's horrible.

• 38:43Speaker 02

  Yeah. Wow.

• 38:45Speaker 01

  It's so hard to be a kid.

• 38:46Dax Shepard?

  But you were always quite cute. You were kind of blessed with being pretty darn cute.

• 38:49Speaker 02

  Thank you. I did have a bad year and a half. And somehow this summer, like right before I wanted to audition and give this thing a shot professionally, it just magically cleared up. It's like I willed it off of my face.

• 39:02Speaker 01

  How old, what age were you then?

• 39:03Speaker 02

  Like 17.

• 39:04Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 39:05Dax Shepard?

  But what I'm gonna try to put on you and project on you is I imagine you got very comfortable in these very big swings. Status quo was these kind of huge swings. I even imagine, now I wasn't the child of anyone famous, but I have children. And I do think about this sometime. It's like, they move through the world with us and they're with mom and dad and everyone knows mom and everyone wants to cater to mom. And do you guys want to sit over there? They're experiencing life in a very privileged and bizarre way. And then when they're not with us and they step outside of it, they resume civilian life, which is no one wants to help you. Like, go fucking ask the other guy, right? Like, that's life on planet earth.

• 39:44Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 39:45Dax Shepard?

  These radical shifts in the dynamics and what your experience can be, I feel like it almost could hardwire you for how absolutely dramatic your life was ultimately.

• 39:56Speaker 02

  Interesting. You mean to be either Martin Sheen's son or Emilio's brother in their presence, but on my own?

• 40:02Dax Shepard?

  Piece of shit.

• 40:03Speaker 02

  He was just a guy. Third dude from the rear. Yeah.

• 40:05Dax Shepard?

  And then you get your own. So it's like, now I'm this heightened thing, but I'm familiar with it because it's how I'm treated on set. Marlon Brando, this motherfucker's having lunch with Marlon Brando on Apocalypse Now as a kid.

• 40:16Speaker 02

  As an 11 year old, yeah. Yeah. It's crazy. And I remember it so vividly. Wow. Yeah. And not even like knowing.

• 40:23Dax Shepard?

  What he was.

• 40:24Speaker 02

  Well, knowing enough, but not the breadth of his genius. The weight of it. All the weight of it. Yeah.

• 40:30Dax Shepard?

  What you had to have clocked was that I'm sure your dad probably acted in a way around him. He probably didn't act around anybody. Like, oh shit, my dad worships this dude.

• 40:38Speaker 02

  Yes. He was one of dad's inspirations to become an actor. But you talk about those big swings that I seem to just roll with it.

• 40:44Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 40:45Speaker 02

  I think a lot of that was that really none of it was planned. I never sat down, I was like, okay, I'm gonna do a project that looks like this. And if that one goes a certain way, that'll probably open the door to do this other thing. And then, okay, and if that works out, then I've done those two things. And then obviously the third thing makes perfect sense. None of that ever. It was like just getting a script. Okay, wow, this is a world that I'm excited by.

• 41:08Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 41:09Speaker 02

  This is a character I think. I could pull off, not even excel, pull off. Yeah.

• 41:14Dax Shepard?

  Right, right, right, right.

• 41:15Speaker 02

  So what's the, what's the messaging behind that?

• 41:17Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 41:18Speaker 02

  You know what I'm saying? Keep them fooled is the messaging. The imposter thing was part of it. I better make the most of this because that day will come.

• 41:26Dax Shepard?

  When they find out.

• 41:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, when they knock on the door, they're here for your SAG card. Or you're told that, yeah, we figured it out now. And here's the only stuff you're qualified for, which is the chatter the whole time. Definitely. You know, at some point they're going to stick me over on something that isn't all this great, big, cool stuff.

• 41:42Dax Shepard?

  We've interviewed 500 actors at this point. 455 of them have imposter syndrome. And they have imposter syndrome without Emilio as their older brother and without Martin as their father. So your level of it, I have to imagine is probably pretty fucking extreme.

• 41:58Speaker 02

  It's probably a little more than the average bear is what you're saying. But I guess that could have gone either way or worked in my favor or against me in that, I don't want to say I had something to prove, but the bars were set pretty high. But also the fruits that I saw connected to matching some of those achievements, that was a big part of it as well.

• 42:18Dax Shepard?

  Well, I'd imagine the seminal moment is like your brother has joined kind of the brat pack. You write in the book about going out on Hollywood Boulevard with Judd.

• 42:27Speaker 02

  And Rob.

• 42:28Dax Shepard?

  And Rob Lowe and your brother and the woman that was there. I'm trying to remember.

• 42:32Speaker 02

  Melissa Gilbert was there, Demi Moore was there.

• 42:34Dax Shepard?

  Demi Moore.

• 42:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, Andrew McCarthy was there.

• 42:37Dax Shepard?

  Yes, and you and Chris Penn are also there, but you're in the exact same boat.

• 42:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:42Speaker 01

  The little brothers.

• 42:43Speaker 02

  The little brothers.

• 42:44Dax Shepard?

  You're there, but you're also not there. Like you know, if the doorman doesn't see your brother nod that you're coming in.

• 42:50Speaker 02

  They're going to lock it as we step up.

• 42:52Dax Shepard?

  This really confusing, I would imagine, bit of privilege and then also feeling less than all the time.

• 42:57Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 42:58Dax Shepard?

  Is that you're having more than 98% of the people, but also even in that spot, you're feeling way less than.

• 43:03Speaker 01

  And resentment, was there any? Because I feel like that's a breeding ground for resentment.

• 43:08Speaker 02

  That would come at the end of the night when everybody went home with someone. And I went home with either Chris or just me. And Chris and I would sit up late at night like, okay, what are we doing wrong, man? What's missing from this? And he was like, idiot, the big hit movie. What's wrong with you? I'm like, yeah, you're right. Okay, okay. How do we make that happen? Right. And then Chris like did, he did Footloose and suddenly he was the toast of the town. Sean saw a screening. I remember I was at his house with my parents and I remember him walking in and saying, holy shit, Chris is gonna be a star. Wow. He just like proclaimed it. He announced it. It was really a cool moment.

• 43:46Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, and I'm inclined to believe Sean.

• 43:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, me too.

• 43:50Dax Shepard?

  If there's someone who's opinion on my value and that space, it would probably be his.

• 43:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, you just, you take his word just because it's a safer thing to do. I talk about in the book, I said, Chris and I were oarsmen in the same unknown boat. Now I'm rowing that thing alone. Yes. And then Chris and I were still making Super 8 films even after Footloose. But he had worked on this Vietnam office for like 10 years. And now that he had gobs of money, he was hiring like special effects crews. They were still filming with a tiny camera and he's blowing up this river. And I was the DP and I'm literally trying to frame out Colossus at Magic Mountain. Because we were at that place. What's that place called?

• 44:31Dax Shepard?

  In Santa Clarita?

• 44:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's like Indian something or other behind Magic Mountain. He got a permit to blow up the river. Oh, wow. And everybody was in full fatigues with M16. Oh, my God. So he took it to like this crazy level.

• 44:46Dax Shepard?

  And then continued to shoot on 8mm.

• 44:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. And just kinda kept me there as the DP. And I'm filming Craig T. Nelson, Eric Stoltz, Sean, Emilio, Leon Robinson. Oh, my God. There was like a whole.

• 44:59Dax Shepard?

  Craig T. was in those?

• 45:00Speaker 02

  Yeah. Do you know him?

• 45:01Dax Shepard?

  I was on his show with him for six years and I love him.

• 45:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, he's lovely. So then I was exposed to it or in the presence of it and still not on their side of the camera. Yes, it can be maddening.

• 45:14Speaker 02

  Yes, I think, Chris, I'm pretty sure I could do more than that.

• 45:17Dax Shepard?

  Get rid of colossus in the background.

• 45:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, those were moments along the way that did inspire and get just that.

• 45:25Dax Shepard?

  Chip on your shoulder, probably.

• 45:26Speaker 01

  And the fire.

• 45:27Speaker 02

  The fire and the fever and all of it.

• 45:29Dax Shepard?

  You knew you were creating wreckage. You knew you were scaring people that loved you.

• 45:33Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 45:34Speaker 01

  At what age? When is this starting?

• 45:36Dax Shepard?

  You're an addict from the jump, yeah? I mean, you're pretty much.

• 45:38Speaker 02

  But there were long breaks.

• 45:39Dax Shepard?

  Right. It sounds like you got pretty in line to work, as it did I.

• 45:43Speaker 02

  Sure. But the time I would give myself, as it progressed, would shrink. And I'm like, alright, I'm gonna need two months in my twenties. I would commit to it and and show up shining like a new dime, right?

• 45:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:54Speaker 02

  And then I was like, ah, that's a three-week prep.

• 45:58Speaker 01

  Right.

• 45:58Speaker 02

  That one, no problem. And then that turns into, alright, so it's Friday. We're shooting on Monday.

• 46:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:04Dax Shepard?

  My call time is five.

• 46:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:06Dax Shepard?

  I've gotta shut it down by 11:00 PM.

• 46:08Speaker 02

  Oh my God, the math we get into.

• 46:10Dax Shepard?

  Oh my God.

• 46:11Speaker 02

  And the negotiations.

• 46:12Dax Shepard?

  Once you pass 10:00 PM, the amount of math that starts happening every five seconds. Until it's 5:00 AM.

• 46:18Speaker 02

  Is a class I never attended. Yeah. No, it's nuts.

• 46:22Dax Shepard?

  It's insanity.

• 46:23Speaker 02

  And then I have this thing about the speed of the time, the rate at which it vanishes from like 1:00 AM to 6:00. I think it's like 100 times faster.

• 46:32Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 46:32Speaker 02

  Than 9:00 PM to, say, midnight.

• 46:34Dax Shepard?

  Couldn't agree more.

• 46:35Speaker 02

  Okay, good.

• 46:35Dax Shepard?

  Even when I have fantasies, as I do, because I'm an addict, of how I could use successfully, my conclusion is, I just needed to start at 10:00 AM.

• 46:43Speaker 02

  There you go.

• 46:44Dax Shepard?

  If I just started at 10:00 AM, I probably could have made it to sleep by 2:00.

• 46:50Speaker 02

  For the 5:00 AM call, yeah.

• 46:51Dax Shepard?

  Which is doable.

• 46:52Speaker 02

  Yeah. It got to the point during annual management where I was taking the 15-minute reset nap. Just to hypnotize myself or meditate into a place of, okay, none of that happened. I know what's in front of me. I can pull this off. They'll know something's up, but they won't know to the extent of how high it's up. I will nap at lunch.

• 47:14Dax Shepard?

  You're kind of problem solving.

• 47:15Speaker 01

  But you're not, right? You trick yourself into saying you are.

• 47:19Speaker 02

  Right. You've cobbled together something that you think is a solution.

• 47:21Dax Shepard?

  Will you tell her about the time that you're visibly falling asleep on camera?

• 47:25Speaker 02

  Yeah. I don't know where that came from. I think it came probably from some sexual behavior that I'd heard about, right? But I'd never done it. She's like, what the hell? No, I wanna know. What are we on the doorstep of here? I was filming a movie in Canada called Free Money. I've been going way too hard. And it was like midday and I had this scene in a cafe or a diner. And I was trying to get through it. It wasn't so much about the dialogue, it was about the level of fatigue. And I thought I was keeping it together. And the director between takes, he walks up and he says, hey, man, I see you falling asleep on camera. Oh, my God. Monica in the take. Yeah, and I've never done heroin, right? Right. And that's like a heroin thing, or even Suboxone, which is like contemporary methadone. Yes.

• 48:09Speaker 02

  I'm telling her, and she's your co-host. You didn't know about Suboxone? I do, I've seen all these drug documentaries, I know about them. And over prescribed everywhere on planet Earth and needs to close your look at that shit, right? And so I said, okay, my bad, I need a cup of ice. Bring me a cup of ice. He's like, okay, what do you want to drink? I'm like, just the ice. And he's like, okay, I said, give me a minute. So I go into the bathroom. I'm like, okay, I've heard about this somewhere else, but for sexual reasons, I'm gonna stick an ice cube up my butt. No. Yeah, and I'm pretty sure, and it was a good sized one. I didn't want it to melt and like- You've got one of those like big round ones they make for whiskey.

• 48:48Speaker 02

  If I see it in the cup, I'm like, no, no, no. I need a rack of all size piece of ice. Can you imagine? And I keistered it like I was sneaking drugs into prison, right? And was suddenly wide awake because it was so uncomfortable. Of course. It was so cold. Not to mention the cold scene you were probably going to keep it in. Yeah, also the leaking. Yeah, you're just leaking, you're now peeing as it melts. I was in like a conductor's jumpsuit. The overall thing, it tells you the quality of the movie, right? And I came back to set and I'm like, let's do this. You're so weird.

• 49:21Dax Shepard?

  Monica, there's footage of these takes in the movie, which is incredible.

• 49:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, and then I've got sort of the melty clock going, right? Like, how many takes is he going to need? We got through it, and I think after that, I wasn't like, oh, I better go get the ice cube out.

• 49:36Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 49:37Speaker 02

  Because we've all thought about the perfect crime. You know, you shoot somebody with an ice cube bullet, and then there's no ballistics. So I'm like, okay, it's just gonna vanish. There will be no ballistics in this crime scene, right? And so we made the day. When I saw that scene in the doc, I'm like, why didn't they just send me home?

• 49:56Speaker 01

  Right.

• 49:56Speaker 02

  That guy's not well.

• 49:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:58Speaker 02

  And I'm not passing the buck. I'm not saying like, oh, shame on them. But there was like a whole, and I talk about it in the book, it gets there later on, about this string of movies that I did in a state that was destroyed.

• 50:10Dax Shepard?

  Charlie, I have directed something where somebody was so fucked up that I just had to switch to, okay, how do I get them through this? They have a ton of dialogue. Okay, you're on a phone call. I'm behind the monitors and I'm seeing every single line and they're repeating them. And then I come up with another solution in the next thing.

• 50:28Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 50:29Dax Shepard?

  You know, I got a million dollars to make a car chase movie. I can't send him home. I gotta get through this.

• 50:34Speaker 02

  And what condition was that actor in when you met them for the job?

• 50:37Dax Shepard?

  I had some concerns. They were a close friend. And then even worse, after this terrible day of filming, I said, look dude, I know exactly what's going on.

• 50:45Speaker 02

  Right.

• 50:46Dax Shepard?

  He said, yeah. So then, probably even worse, he quit cold turkey opiates. So then for the rest of the movie, I'm dealing with someone detoxing.

• 50:56Speaker 01

  Fuck. Okay, I had this experience at a hotel down the street where there was a kid, 21 years old. His parents are famous and...

• 51:06Dax Shepard?

  That's an understatement, but continue.

• 51:07Speaker 01

  Yes. He would get so fucked up every day. I'd go there to work and I would see him. And one day, it was so bad. He was falling over. He almost knocked his head open. He was scaring everyone, you know?

• 51:20Speaker 02

  Was it booze? Was it dope?

• 51:21Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 51:22Dax Shepard?

  When she described it, I think he was definitely benzed out.

• 51:25Speaker 02

  Got it. Okay.

• 51:26Speaker 01

  And drinking.

• 51:27Dax Shepard?

  Overly Xanax'd and then drinking sloppy tranquilized.

• 51:31Speaker 01

  He was like falling out. Would just like fall over and then come back to. It was so scary looking to someone who doesn't do that. And my friend went up to the bartender and was like, dude, this guy's not okay.

• 51:41Speaker 02

  Well, you were in a public place.

• 51:42Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 51:43Speaker 02

  Oh, I thought you were like at his apartment.

• 51:44Speaker 01

  No, we were at a hotel bar and restaurant.

• 51:47Speaker 02

  Got it. Okay.

• 51:48Speaker 01

  They went up and they were like, you know, this person is not okay. And they were like, oh, he's my friend. He's my neighbor. It's okay. And he was like, well, first of all, I know that's not true. And also, doesn't matter. He needs help.

• 52:00Speaker 02

  Right.

• 52:01Speaker 01

  That guy was like, okay, that's a bartender. What can he do? Right? So then my friend went to the manager and said, you need to get this person help. They need to leave. This is bad. And they were like, do you know who he is? And he was like, I don't care who he is. This is a problem. But that's the way a lot of people operate, right? Like, do you know who he is? We can't kick him out. We can't tell him anything because he's famous.

• 52:26Speaker 02

  Right.

• 52:26Speaker 01

  And I think that's what.

• 52:27Dax Shepard?

  What might have been happening behind the scenes. People might have been saying, we gotta get him home.

• 52:32Speaker 01

  But then people are like, but we can't because it's Charlie. My whole takeaway from that whole thing was, you guys think you're doing him a favor by not kicking him out? He needs help.

• 52:41Speaker 02

  Right.

• 52:41Speaker 01

  And no one's telling him or his parents. So like, you would have been better off if they had told you to leave instead of letting you continue.

• 52:49Speaker 02

  Yes. This is six pack of movies that I talk about in the book and just how one was just worse than the last one. The behavior was identical across all those different sets. And the only way that I really knew where the hell I was was hotel stationery.

• 53:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:05Speaker 02

  Or souvenir from the airplane. Oh, that's where we're doing that job.

• 53:08Dax Shepard?

  And talk about being untethered. You're like, you really don't know where you're at in space and time.

• 53:12Speaker 02

  I gotta believe. Let's say, okay, the first three were whatever. And then by number four, it just would have been cool in the first meeting. They just said, the last place you need to be right now is on a movie set.

• 53:22Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 53:22Speaker 02

  Trying to be responsible.

• 53:24Speaker 01

  Yes. Yes.

• 53:25Speaker 02

  And play make believe.

• 53:27Speaker 01

  Because if you have no consequences, why would you stop?

• 53:29Speaker 02

  That's the key thing, when the consequences are always sort of negotiable.

• 53:34Speaker 01

  Right.

• 53:34Speaker 02

  You know, until they're not.

• 53:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:36Speaker 02

  One day they become very not, difficult in the moment, but tons of gratitude later that what should have been a stop sign was always yield. And when it becomes a stop sign, it's there for a reason. And I think the thing that people are kind of responding to with the dog, which is really cool, and in some ways the book, they're getting this story from the guy and they shouldn't be.

• 53:55Speaker 01

  Right.

• 53:55Speaker 02

  They should be getting it from an educated narrator. And it's all, yeah, journalist, yeah, it's all archival and there's sad music and it's the whole thing. It's an if only story and it's not. And it's cool, right?

• 54:06Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah. Well, I'm sure you have the same agitation when you see how generally recovery gets played in movies by a bunch of people who have no experience with it. It's like, it's so somber. Put Charlie and I together and we'll start talking about this carnage. And it's just because you survived.

• 54:22Speaker 02

  Right.

• 54:22Dax Shepard?

  And it's not happening today. You gotta laugh about it, like it's just gotta be funny. Or you would just drowned in the shame of all the fucked up shit we did. So you've had a lot of time to reflect. I'm suggesting things as part of the recipe, right? Like the fraudulence, that's certainly part of it.

• 54:38Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 54:38Dax Shepard?

  What do you think about just how incredibly high the bar was set so quickly? I also think that's problematic. You don't graduate high school.

• 54:46Speaker 02

  Right.

• 54:46Dax Shepard?

  And I'm gonna give acting a shot and in a very short time, you're on platoon. And that's bonkers. And then you're 21 and the thing wins fucking best pitcher.

• 54:54Speaker 02

  And I'm watching that broadcast from New York, having just started Wall Street.

• 54:59Dax Shepard?

  And then now the cash and prizes are arriving.

• 55:01Speaker 02

  Right.

• 55:02Dax Shepard?

  Those are extremely heightened.

• 55:03Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 55:04Dax Shepard?

  The people that navigate it, I'm so impressed because it's an untenable level of heightened arousal.

• 55:11Speaker 02

  It is.

• 55:12Dax Shepard?

  And at some point, the cash and prizes kind of wear off. And I think that's where drugs really, I'm supposed to feel elation right now. I have everything I wanted, where's the elation? Crack gives you elation.

• 55:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, it does, in a way that no part of the job can.

• 55:25Dax Shepard?

  It fills in for the disappointment of the fantasy.

• 55:28Speaker 02

  Interesting.

• 55:29Dax Shepard?

  You're in a dangerous spot.

• 55:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, that has to be altered.

• 55:33Dax Shepard?

  Medicated.

• 55:33Speaker 02

  There's a thing that I always go back to from my own flameouts and then also witnessing the flameouts of others, or even just the behaviors from those flameouts, or lack of gratitude, or just someone's completely shit the bed. I always ask myself, and I put this on me too, like, okay, when I was building this fantasy as a child, when I saw like The Life of a Movie Star, or I saw it with Dad, but my version, my name and lights, and my successes, then you're in a weird motel with two bikers and four street walkers, someone's making a meth run, and you're like, wait, I don't do meth?

• 56:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:05Speaker 02

  And you're kind of like, where was that in that whole fantasy package?

• 56:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:10Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 56:10Speaker 02

  You can't plan that stuff, and you can't prepare to avoid it. You know what I just thought of sitting here? What if they always kept the audition process connected, in play, like it's a mandatory part of getting a job? Even if your last film made a hundred million dollars.

• 56:27Speaker 01

  Right.

• 56:28Dax Shepard?

  You make Brad Pitt read.

• 56:29Speaker 02

  And you just like, everybody still has to audition?

• 56:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:33Speaker 02

  Can you imagine?

• 56:33Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 56:34Speaker 02

  I mean, people would flip out.

• 56:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, they would never allow it.

• 56:37Dax Shepard?

  Almost all of the fantasy is, oh my God, finally, I won't have to go earn it in this awkward situation. That's almost the best part of the fantasy.

• 56:45Speaker 02

  It is until it isn't. That's the imposter syndrome.

• 56:48Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 56:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:49Speaker 02

  When you're like, oh shit, okay, so now they just think because of that thing they saw, like, I can do this next thing? Huh. Now you're just being trusted.

• 56:58Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 56:59Speaker 02

  And treated like a commodity of sorts. And the first test is on camera.

• 57:03Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 57:04Speaker 02

  And usually with people that you respect.

• 57:05Dax Shepard?

  You admire.

• 57:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like, whoa. I think they should also refilm day one.

• 57:11Dax Shepard?

  Always.

• 57:12Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 57:12Speaker 02

  It's like the first pancake, yeah.

• 57:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:14Speaker 02

  I think they should make day one two days.

• 57:17Speaker 01

  I like that. Get it out of the way.

• 57:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, because I'll look at stuff on day one, they're put in the middle of a movie, and it's like, oh Jesus, I wasn't even warm. I wasn't even warm.

• 57:26Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah. I hadn't even moved hotel rooms yet to the one I liked.

• 57:29Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 57:30Dax Shepard?

  Still in the one I don't like, facing the fire station.

• 57:33Speaker 02

  Yeah. So these are my fixes for Hollywood.

• 57:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, I love that.

• 57:37Speaker 02

  And they're terrible.

• 57:39Speaker 01

  They're something.

• 57:40Dax Shepard?

  Another thing I'm wondering is, a lot of the stuff, it came pretty easily. That's kind of confusing.

• 57:45Speaker 02

  It did, and some of it was just right place, right time.

• 57:49Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 57:50Speaker 02

  I mean, think about the Bueller thing. The Bueller thing's a trip.

• 57:53Dax Shepard?

  And Monica needs a no. So Jennifer Grey says, hey, come, I want you to be in this movie. Come meet John Hughes.

• 57:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I had worked with Jennifer on Red Dawn.

• 58:00Speaker 01

  Got it. Okay.

• 58:01Speaker 02

  She says, hey, there's this one scene, it's a really cool character, and I told the director, John Hughes, that you'd be the right guy for the job. I'm like, wow, thank you. I think she was dating Matthew Broderick at the time.

• 58:11Dax Shepard?

  Uh huh.

• 58:11Speaker 02

  She plays the sister, she's got one of the leads. Well, you've seen the movie.

• 58:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, I love it. Classic.

• 58:15Speaker 02

  So I prepare and I get the scene and my brother Ramon, I'm borrowing all of his punk rock shit to kind of look like that guy.

• 58:23Dax Shepard?

  And you're rubbing ashes on your eyes or something? Or you had to rub something weird?

• 58:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, to look tired, you know, and I drive all the way down to Long Beach. I meet John Hughes in the parking lot and I'm expecting him to say, great, okay, so we're gonna go over here and we're gonna put you on tape. We'll get back to you.

• 58:36Speaker 01

  Like normal.

• 58:37Speaker 02

  Normal. Yeah. And he's on the move. He's like I describe in the book, a man with a full plate and no time to eat, right? And so I start walking with him and he's got a couple assistants with him, is super busy in the middle of a complicated day, shakes my hand, takes me in for two seconds, ah, kid, you look great. We'll see you next week. You look great. We'll see you next week.

• 59:00Dax Shepard?

  You look great.

• 59:01Speaker 02

  And I stop and I just kind of watch him.

• 59:03Speaker 01

  Keep going.

• 59:04Speaker 02

  Walk away. Yeah.

• 59:04Dax Shepard?

  And then the panic sets in, probably. You don't know if you can do it.

• 59:07Speaker 02

  Right.

• 59:08Speaker 01

  But are you also like, I'm magic?

• 59:11Speaker 02

  It's a rush.

• 59:12Dax Shepard?

  It's probably all things.

• 59:13Speaker 01

  It's all things. Like, I'm sure for your ego, it must be like, oh, my God, I don't have to do anything.

• 59:19Speaker 02

  It's a whoa moment, but it's also a, God, if he had at least seen me read it.

• 59:24Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 59:25Speaker 02

  And it was wrong, then at least I got a place to work from. He had no idea I was gonna play this thing.

• 59:32Speaker 01

  I know.

• 59:33Dax Shepard?

  And by the way, among my favorite things you've ever done.

• 59:35Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 59:36Dax Shepard?

  I mean, you really did the impossible. You kind of walk away with a big chunk of that movie in one scene. I mean, they wrote about you in the reviews, saying you were smoldering.

• 59:45Speaker 02

  It's just so strange. Then, okay, so in that week, it's all in the doc and the book, Dad and I go down to take part in a TV show.

• 59:53Dax Shepard?

  Oh, this is gonna blow your fucking mind.

• 59:55Speaker 02

  That pits actors against athletes and the card we drew was Michael Jordan. It's a two on one versus Jordan. It's a three part competition. It's a, it's.

• 1:00:03Dax Shepard?

  Free throws?

• 1:00:04Speaker 02

  Free throws, a game of horse, and then a two on one. Yeah.

• 1:00:07Dax Shepard?

  Oh, no. Wait till you hear how it plays out, Monica.

• 1:00:09Speaker 02

  I mean, do you want to know or you just want to watch it?

• 1:00:10Speaker 01

  No, I want to know. I want to know. I want to know this.

• 1:00:12Dax Shepard?

  She loves Jordan.

• 1:00:12Speaker 02

  We beat him.

• 1:00:13Speaker 01

  How is this?

• 1:00:14Dax Shepard?

  No, no, no, no. Not only did he beat him, this is where he has these absolute mythical strokes of magic. Charlie hit eight free throws in a row.

• 1:00:23Speaker 01

  Did you play basketball?

• 1:00:24Speaker 02

  No, I played baseball, but I shot with dad in the backyard like my whole life growing up.

• 1:00:29Dax Shepard?

  Hit an 18 foot jumper in the two on two to win the game.

• 1:00:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:00:34Speaker 01

  This is not a normal life.

• 1:00:37Dax Shepard?

  He gets out of treatment, he's dead. One of his times getting out of treatment, dad picks him up. He wants to just watch baseball. He loves baseball. They stopped by this place and there's grown men playing a game of baseball in a league. And because they're them, they all of a sudden, they let Charlie take an at bat. First swing, out of treatment, life's over, homerun.

• 1:00:59Dax Shepard?

  Of course you're confused.

• 1:01:00Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:01:00Speaker 02

  Fastball.

• 1:01:01Dax Shepard?

  You've got like superpowers and then you're superhuman all the time. You're extra human and you have superpowers.

• 1:01:07Speaker 01

  This is too much to like be holding all at once. That's a lot.

• 1:01:11Speaker 02

  Drive back from the Jordan thing, I've got the scene with me. On Tuesday or maybe even Monday, I have to report back and do this thing.

• 1:01:18Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:01:19Speaker 02

  And so I read it with dad in the limo, just having done the Jordan thing, working on Bueller. We read it once, I didn't do anything with it and he stopped me and said, that's it. You've nailed it. And I was confused. I was like, I did nothing. And he said, it took me 30 years to learn how not to do that.

• 1:01:35Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:01:35Speaker 02

  So that's kind of what I walked in with and I was really hoping that Hughes was going to be okay with this giant, very specific piece of advice. And he was. But of course, on the day I overslept and I was two hours late and it was.

• 1:01:48Speaker 01

  Really? Oh, wow.

• 1:01:50Dax Shepard?

  This is an easy theory to make and I want you to tell me if you think there's anything realistic to this, which is, these things come incredibly easy to you. And something about the subconscious goes, this isn't right and we're gonna fix it. And the way we fix it is we're gonna destroy it.

• 1:02:05Speaker 01

  Some self sabotage.

• 1:02:07Speaker 02

  But this was, I think before.

• 1:02:09Dax Shepard?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:02:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:02:10Dax Shepard?

  But there's an inkling of it. It's like, how were you on time to get the job? You get the job too easy. You go win a game with Jordan. Somehow you can't fucking wake up on time?

• 1:02:18Speaker 02

  That's a good point.

• 1:02:19Dax Shepard?

  Why can't you wake up on time?

• 1:02:20Speaker 02

  You make a good point.

• 1:02:21Dax Shepard?

  For the thing?

• 1:02:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's true.

• 1:02:22Dax Shepard?

  You weren't late for that. You know you got that too easy. And now we're late. You have a reason, but it's suspicious.

• 1:02:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, it is suspicious, even sitting here today.

• 1:02:32Dax Shepard?

  It doesn't make sense.

• 1:02:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:02:33Dax Shepard?

  And a lot of your stuff doesn't make sense.

• 1:02:36Speaker 02

  You can't draw it up. Right. You can't plan it.

• 1:02:38Speaker 01

  If you feel fraudulent, self sabotage definitely feeds into that, I think. If you have imposter syndrome, it's like, I don't really know if I deserve this, so I'm gonna. I mean, it's all subconscious, none of it's conscious, but it's like, I might need to put this really to the test.

• 1:02:52Speaker 02

  Right. But another extension of that is when you're finally making a bunch of dough, not feeling put on like, oh, now I have to pay for dinner, pay for cars, but wanting to.

• 1:03:01Dax Shepard?

  Oh, you can't wait to.

• 1:03:02Speaker 02

  Wanting to just give it away.

• 1:03:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:05Speaker 02

  Cause they're, now they're giving me too much. I'm being overpaid for what I believe my skillset is actually worth.

• 1:03:11Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:03:12Dax Shepard?

  And I gotta redistribute this, or it'd be totally crazy.

• 1:03:14Speaker 02

  Exactly. Guilt.

• 1:03:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:16Dax Shepard?

  One of the things I didn't know about you that I got so excited to learn in the doc, and this is so frivolous, but my great, great obsession as a child and to this day is Nick Cage.

• 1:03:27Speaker 02

  Oh, wow.

• 1:03:27Dax Shepard?

  Where'd this guy come from? What planet did he drop in on?

• 1:03:31Speaker 02

  Nobody knows.

• 1:03:32Dax Shepard?

  Nobody knows. But you guys were like best friends, yeah?

• 1:03:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, and still are tight.

• 1:03:37Dax Shepard?

  Okay, great.

• 1:03:37Speaker 02

  We just don't see each other enough, cause he does more movies than anybody alive, doesn't he?

• 1:03:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, he's busy.

• 1:03:43Dax Shepard?

  Very prolific.

• 1:03:44Speaker 02

  How does he have the energy?

• 1:03:45Dax Shepard?

  What a pairing, you two.

• 1:03:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, and we were on this collision course. We found each other for a reason in the way that we did. It was just one of those nights out that I thought would be normal, and it was anything but.

• 1:03:56Speaker 01

  What happened?

• 1:03:57Dax Shepard?

  Monica, you remember that my favorite story of him?

• 1:03:59Speaker 01

  The plane.

• 1:04:00Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. This is your pilot speaking. I'm not feeling well and I'm losing control of the aircraft.

• 1:04:06Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 1:04:08Dax Shepard?

  Charlie had an eight ball taped to his leg. Oh.

• 1:04:13Speaker 02

  If it was an eight ball, if it was an eight ball, I could've just had it in my breast pocket, you know? It was a fat bag.

• 1:04:18Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:04:19Speaker 02

  And I didn't want to take off my jacket, and so I was like, oh, I've seen this in movies.

• 1:04:23Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:23Speaker 02

  Tape it down here.

• 1:04:25Dax Shepard?

  Sure.

• 1:04:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was.

• 1:04:26Speaker 01

  Did it work? It didn't work?

• 1:04:27Speaker 02

  No, it stayed.

• 1:04:28Speaker 01

  It stayed?

• 1:04:29Speaker 02

  It stayed. I just didn't know we would be encountering federal agents when we landed.

• 1:04:33Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:04:33Speaker 02

  Because of the thing that Nick did, you know?

• 1:04:35Speaker 01

  Oh, he did that. Oh, that's what caused it, and then?

• 1:04:38Dax Shepard?

  Their travel companions.

• 1:04:39Speaker 02

  We were just entertaining the airplane.

• 1:04:41Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:04:43Dax Shepard?

  Two professional entertainers aboard.

• 1:04:45Speaker 02

  Exactly. We were on the PA, but Nick hadn't gone yet. There was five of us. We all took the mic and just said stupid things and got silly laughs.

• 1:04:52Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:04:52Speaker 02

  And then Nick was last, and he said, this is your captain speaking. I'm not feeling well. I'm losing control of the aircraft. And the airplane went on tilt.

• 1:05:03Speaker 01

  Freaked out. Obviously.

• 1:05:05Speaker 02

  Yeah. And then the steward walks right up to him and goes, not cool, man. Not cool.

• 1:05:12Dax Shepard?

  Which sounds like Nick. Not cool.

• 1:05:15Speaker 02

  Exactly. Maybe he was trying to find that common, common language.

• 1:05:19Dax Shepard?

  Speak his language.

• 1:05:21Speaker 02

  It went from there. Luckily, there were fans. Another thing, a yield sign and not a stop sign, right?

• 1:05:26Speaker 01

  Yeah. Federal agents were fans?

• 1:05:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, of his films, of mine.

• 1:05:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:05:31Speaker 02

  They're like, all right, all right, let's just make sure you never do this again, guys.

• 1:05:34Dax Shepard?

  Charlie got to fly an international airplane on the way home from Japan drunk.

• 1:05:38Speaker 02

  Paris.

• 1:05:39Dax Shepard?

  Paris, I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

• 1:05:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, the honeymoon. Yeah, it's all in the book and the doc.

• 1:05:42Speaker 01

  You're so lucky to be alive. Do you feel that?

• 1:05:45Speaker 02

  I do.

• 1:05:45Dax Shepard?

  I was having this thought a few times watching it where I was like, man, what is that gap between? You know, why didn't Nick blow up? How can Sean be in the doc pen? And he didn't disintegrate. A lot of us played with fire. And what is that weird little smidgen between you, Downey? But then these other guys who certainly were doing a lot, but they were just one standard deviation above where they coasted. It's not a huge gap.

• 1:06:16Speaker 02

  Maybe they were still, are still getting that rush from the work.

• 1:06:21Dax Shepard?

  I don't think they feel as fraudulent.

• 1:06:23Speaker 02

  Interesting.

• 1:06:25Dax Shepard?

  I say that not knowing either of them, but that's just my hunch.

• 1:06:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think they were just doing it at a level that was so committed. Required a focus I was too lazy to tap into.

• 1:06:36Speaker 01

  They probably cared deeply about the quality of the work and maybe accolades or being recognized as being very, very good. I don't know if you did or not.

• 1:06:48Speaker 02

  They had set the bar really high for themselves to then have to top, or at least create performances and find material that would be super unique, very challenging and different from what they'd just done. I think they had access to better material. They were trusted more with the stuff that required that level. And good for them, because that's the thing I would shy from. I would read a script that was like really challenging and way outside.

• 1:07:14Dax Shepard?

  And get scared.

• 1:07:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:07:17Speaker 03

  Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert if you dare.

• 1:07:23Dax Shepard?

  We get support from our sponsor Lilly. For adults with obesity or with excess weight and weight-related medical problems, it's time to find out about Foundo or for Gleepron. Foundo is a once-daily prescription GLP-1 medicine used with a reduced calorie diet and increased physical activity to help adults with obesity or some adults with overweight who also have weight-related medical problems to lose excess body weight and keep the weight off.

• 1:07:49Speaker 04

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• 1:08:29Speaker 04

  Once-daily Foundo is available by prescription only in 0.8 mg, 2.5 mg, 5.5 mg, 9 mg, 14.5 mg, and 17.2 mg tablets. Learn more at foundo.lilly.com or call 1-800-LILY-RX. Now is perfect to talk to your doctor about Foundo.

• 1:08:47Dax Shepard?

  We get support by Peloton. You know that feeling when you're spiraling over a problem and you just can't figure it out? When that happens to me, I need a change of pace, and I've found that running is the best way. It takes my brain out of the driver's seat and I come back with a fresh perspective. Running can be freeing and cathartic, and Peloton helps you feel all of that. And now that feeling fits wherever you need it with the new Peloton Tread Flex. It's movable and foldable, designed to fit your life. So next time you feel stuck, you can go for a run literally anywhere, whether that's in your office, living room, or even the attic. Plus, they have classes with expert instructors and programs to meet you at any level and keep you moving. Let yourself run.

• 1:09:30Dax Shepard?

  Explore the new Peloton Tread Flex at onepeloton.com.

• 1:09:35Dax Shepard?

  We get support from Instagram teen accounts. So we talk a lot on this show about how the world is different now than when we were growing up. And one of the biggest differences is obviously social media. And I think a lot of people wonder, okay, what's actually being done to make it safer for teenagers?

• 1:09:51Speaker 01

  Which is a fair question.

• 1:09:53Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. So Instagram has got something called teen accounts and they come with automatic protections built in by default. So anyone between 13 and 17 is automatically placed into this experience. They get age appropriate content settings, contact limits, so that by default, only people they're already connected to can message them. And time management tools, daily time limit reminders, and also sleep mode that mutes notifications from 10:00 PM to 7:00 AM.

• 1:10:19Speaker 01

  Sleep mode is genius.

• 1:10:20Dax Shepard?

  Right? And here's the thing, for anyone under 16, a parent has to give permission to change any of those settings to be less strict. The guardrails are on and Instagram keeps building new safety features to create age appropriate experiences for teens.

• 1:10:36Speaker 01

  I am really glad Instagram's helping to give parents peace of mind with teen accounts.

• 1:10:40Dax Shepard?

  Learn more about teen accounts and Instagram's ongoing work to protect teens online at instagram.com/teenaccounts. We get support from SKIMS. So Monica just informed me that she's a girl's girl and I nodded like I knew exactly what that meant.

• 1:10:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, but the girls who get it, they get it.

• 1:11:00Dax Shepard?

  Okay, but for those of us who are clearly not girls, walk me through it.

• 1:11:03Speaker 01

  Well, you know how much I love my SKIMS fleece joggers because the plush fleece is so soft. It's cozy. It's really comfortable without feeling too heavy. Well, I went to friend them and she would not stop talking about how comfy they were. She almost didn't give them back to me, which was upsetting, but I'm a girl's girl, so I let her have it.

• 1:11:20Dax Shepard?

  Great, great, great.

• 1:11:21Speaker 01

  So the sleep sets are awesome because they are very soft and comfortable, but they're cute. If I'm in my sleep set, I feel fine about going down the street to pick up my food. I'm still looking cute, but I'm comfy and I'm cozy.

• 1:11:35Dax Shepard?

  Roger.

• 1:11:36Speaker 01

  A really fun thing to do is if you're going on vacation with your girlfriends, to get matching SKIMS pajamas. I've done this with Callie and it is so fun. First of all, the pics are so cute, but also it's just fun and friendship.

• 1:11:48Dax Shepard?

  So a girl's girl is looking out for your friends with better loungewear. I get it. Am I one of your girls now?

• 1:11:54Speaker 01

  You are. You and the other girlies can shop my favorite loungewear and pajamas at skims.com. After you place your order, be sure to let them know we sent you. Select podcasts in the survey and be sure to select our show in the dropdown menu that follows.

• 1:12:14Dax Shepard?

  The other thing I would argue, in addition to being that focused on the commitment, is also, whatever the pain and angst was, that level of medicating was enough for them to find comfort. And your level of pain and discomfort required the amount you were using.

• 1:12:29Speaker 02

  It's not a one size fits all, is it?

• 1:12:30Dax Shepard?

  It's not. What was the very hardest thing for you to talk about in the documentary?

• 1:12:35Speaker 02

  It was the sex stuff.

• 1:12:36Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:36Speaker 02

  Again, it was that thing of the way something exists up here and feels in here and finally comes out. And it's the story I wrote about how I'd be judged, what was going to happen, what the results would be. None of it happened and it feels better out there than it did in there for so long.

• 1:12:54Dax Shepard?

  It's so curious. I like really mulled over. I'm like, yeah, man, to say that, hey, I've had sex with guys along the way. It's so weird because if I had met you as gay or met you as bi.

• 1:13:06Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:13:06Dax Shepard?

  There's nothing there. What's so weird or interesting is like, but I had him in this category. It kind of speaks to how inflexible are, well, this is a story because I had him in this category. And it's just kind of a testament to how that aspect is interesting.

• 1:13:22Speaker 02

  It was pretty crack fueled. I don't say that to excuse it or be like, oh, only that thing. Because even if there's an intense drug involved, it still has to open a door of a room that already exists, right?

• 1:13:33Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:33Speaker 02

  Maybe, or maybe not.

• 1:13:35Dax Shepard?

  I'll just give you one example. Our favorite podcast we've ever heard in our life, we share it, is this episode of Radiolab called Blame. And this man who was married and happy and a normal guy, he got this procedure because he had epilepsy and they cut a corridor in his brain so the two sides couldn't fight.

• 1:13:50Speaker 02

  Oh, damn.

• 1:13:50Dax Shepard?

  And in the process of doing that, they cut the circuitry from your central brain, your pleasure, all that stuff. The circuitry to your frontal lobe that says like, oh yeah, I desire that, but that's insane. We're not going to do that.

• 1:14:02Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:14:02Dax Shepard?

  That got caught. This woman who's lived with this husband. It's a knock at the door. She goes downstairs. The Homeland Security is there because he is consuming a tremendous amount of pedophilia.

• 1:14:14Speaker 01

  Child pornography.

• 1:14:15Dax Shepard?

  Child pornography. And she's like, what? That's not my husband. And as they point out in this book, that part of the brain, the reptilian brain, it just wants everything that's an option.

• 1:14:27Speaker 01

  Basically, the part they tinkered with released, he had no inhibition.

• 1:14:31Dax Shepard?

  Wow.

• 1:14:31Speaker 01

  And it's such an interesting question because it's like, is it his fault? They performed a surgery and now he's different.

• 1:14:39Dax Shepard?

  And there's a medication that can put him back to normal, but he has to serve his time for this thing.

• 1:14:43Speaker 02

  Oh, seriously? Wow.

• 1:14:44Dax Shepard?

  Which he does, but it's a very complex.

• 1:14:46Speaker 01

  It's very complicated. But the brain and chemicals, they really can change a person.

• 1:14:52Speaker 02

  For sure.

• 1:14:52Dax Shepard?

  Crack, it ignites the reward circuitry and you just get stuck in the reward circuitry. Honestly, anything's on the table.

• 1:14:59Speaker 02

  Yeah. Oh, yeah.

• 1:15:00Dax Shepard?

  Given a long enough time horizon.

• 1:15:02Speaker 02

  Right. And I use the metaphor of the menu that I had exhausted one side of the menu, like basically everything. From every appetizer, every entree, every fricking, all of it, every dessert. And finally just went, oh.

• 1:15:14Speaker 01

  There's more on the back.

• 1:15:15Dax Shepard?

  What's all this?

• 1:15:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:15:17Speaker 02

  And the company I was keeping was mostly women in the adult film profession.

• 1:15:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:15:23Speaker 02

  And so they're doing jobs during the day and coming back, telling stories about stuff that's only on that other side.

• 1:15:29Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:15:30Speaker 02

  And I'm like, oh, wait, so you can put that? And they're like, of course we can. I didn't have to be done secretly. They were just part of it. All right. This is what we're doing.

• 1:15:38Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yes.

• 1:15:40Speaker 02

  It was a relief to talk about it.

• 1:15:41Dax Shepard?

  I bet.

• 1:15:42Speaker 02

  And the reason I did, for a couple of reasons, for myself first and foremost, but prepping for the documentary, the director, Andrew Renzi, who I think is a fricking genius.

• 1:15:50Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:15:50Speaker 02

  Look what this guy put together. What the hell? He said, look, man, at some point we got to get into this other thing. The amount of research, he scraped the internet or dove into it in a way like he was an AI program, you know, and found a lot of stories and rumors and stuff about me and said, hey, this is stuff that people have talked about for a long time. How do you feel about us taking a peek at that?

• 1:16:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:16:09Speaker 02

  And I said, all right, sure.

• 1:16:11Speaker 01

  Good for you.

• 1:16:11Speaker 02

  Thank you. But because right when we finished my interviews for the doc is really when I was able to really sit down and start the book. I knew, all right, so it's all right, I'm gonna be in the other thing. And if it's not here. And the other thing was that with that amount of crack, if that story or those experiences weren't part of that journey, people would be like, um, it usually goes there.

• 1:16:36Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 1:16:36Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:16:37Dax Shepard?

  This is what we know from being in the rooms. It's like you hear someone tell a story and you're like 90% there. It's like, well, that's interesting.

• 1:16:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:16:43Dax Shepard?

  A hundred out of a hundred other people end up cheating on their wives when they're in that situation. But you didn't?

• 1:16:49Speaker 02

  Yeah. So I didn't want to create that vibe that something stinks.

• 1:16:53Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:16:54Speaker 02

  So there was that part of it. The way it is working out, I think it's cathartic.

• 1:16:57Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:58Speaker 01

  And it's humanizing. Like, I think people.

• 1:17:00Speaker 02

  Right on. Thank you.

• 1:17:01Speaker 01

  Especially celebrities and especially you. You've been, you know, splashed all over the news. People have ideas about you. And when they hear these stories, like, he's a person with some extraordinary life highlights.

• 1:17:13Speaker 02

  I had a pretty good line on a show a few weeks ago. I said, well, I guess I just really wanted to have even more in common with Richard Pryor, Marlon Brando, and Mick Jagger.

• 1:17:22Speaker 01

  Exactly. All your heroes.

• 1:17:24Speaker 02

  Right? What have we done?

• 1:17:26Dax Shepard?

  Okay, the part of the doc that was the hardest for me to watch was the 100-city live tour at the height of the tiger blood mania. Is that the worst?

• 1:17:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, that was hard for me to watch.

• 1:17:40Dax Shepard?

  Because you're now confirming what you feared, which is your show sucked.

• 1:17:43Speaker 02

  It was 21 cities.

• 1:17:45Dax Shepard?

  I'm sorry.

• 1:17:45Speaker 02

  Yes, I'm sorry. But in 30 days.

• 1:17:47Dax Shepard?

  It's too much.

• 1:17:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:17:48Dax Shepard?

  You don't have a show. It hasn't been written. And guess what? You're dead in front of the people you're disappointing.

• 1:17:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:17:53Dax Shepard?

  And this fear that was in the back of your mind, the fucking shadow that's always told you you sucked, you're now sucking.

• 1:17:59Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. In real time.

• 1:18:01Dax Shepard?

  I don't know how you continued to keep doing the live. I mean, of all the crazy endurance you have, that's the one where I'm watching that and I'm like, oh, my fucking God, if I had to go bomb every night.

• 1:18:12Speaker 02

  Cringe city, yeah.

• 1:18:13Dax Shepard?

  I might be suicidal.

• 1:18:14Speaker 01

  But did you care? Or were you like, you know what? I'm just gonna go do drugs? Were you even present enough to care?

• 1:18:20Speaker 02

  No, I was off all the drugs.

• 1:18:22Speaker 01

  Oh, you were.

• 1:18:23Speaker 02

  That's the thing. But I wasn't off a specific one. Which was testosterone.

• 1:18:27Dax Shepard?

  Your numbers were 4,000.

• 1:18:29Speaker 02

  They were.

• 1:18:30Dax Shepard?

  I mean, that's unheard of.

• 1:18:31Speaker 02

  Oh, my God.

• 1:18:31Dax Shepard?

  That's unheard of.

• 1:18:32Speaker 02

  It's a roid rage. That's really what that whole thing was. But I guess there were still traces, because to just stop everything, just to prove a point, it still was in my system.

• 1:18:40Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Your brain was not well.

• 1:18:41Speaker 02

  No. And then I was adding crazy cream all over my body and then like, oh, let's take this thing on the road. Now, granted, I could have said, no, that's a bad idea. But then they start throwing out the numbers and they start feeding the ego. And then the first thing sells out in like 11 minutes. And you're like, all right, okay.

• 1:18:57Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:18:58Speaker 02

  The people want to see this. And you're like, see what? See what? Okay. Tried to build the show at my house for like a month. Oh, wow. Like, all these brilliant comedic minds coming by.

• 1:19:06Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, Todd was there, Phillips.

• 1:19:07Speaker 02

  Yes. I wasn't listening to anybody. I was just gonna do it my way. You know, I'm gonna wing it.

• 1:19:12Dax Shepard?

  What was the pain of that on stage when the fun of it wore off, the rubbernecking spectacle wore off?

• 1:19:16Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 1:19:17Dax Shepard?

  They're turning. They hate this. I'm stuck on the stage.

• 1:19:22Speaker 02

  It was between cities. It was the trudge to the next city, knowing.

• 1:19:28Dax Shepard?

  Dude, I can throw up.

• 1:19:29Speaker 02

  I know, I know, right? And then they brought in Jeff Ross.

• 1:19:32Dax Shepard?

  Oh, thank God.

• 1:19:33Speaker 02

  Who brought comedy and just some life to it. But then he had other stuff he had to do. So we do like five shows and people seemed happier about it. Yeah.

• 1:19:42Dax Shepard?

  Less disappointing.

• 1:19:43Speaker 02

  Yeah. Then he'd have to cut out and I'd be back on my own. And that's why in the book, I don't write about the tour. I write about on the eve, what took place before the first show in Detroit. That's how I feel about the tour. I clogged the toilet in the hotel. Oh, boy. Because I'd been so backed up.

• 1:20:01Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:20:01Speaker 02

  And I had two girls in the other room that I was traveling with. And that drug keeps you very frisky, right?

• 1:20:07Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, sure. I wrecked, we'll say.

• 1:20:10Speaker 02

  Testosterone, that's literally the point of it, yeah. And so the only way back to that fantasy was for that toilet to flush. And it wasn't. And so I had to build something to get. Oh, boy. Yeah. I know. I know. But if you think about the symbology of everything, right?

• 1:20:29Dax Shepard?

  It's 100 pounds of shit and a five pound toilet.

• 1:20:31Speaker 02

  It is, yeah. Yeah, literally. So that's why, that is the only story about that frickin'. Wow. Yeah, and I'm glad that at least it's covered in the doc in a way.

• 1:20:40Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:41Speaker 02

  Where people can go on that journey.

• 1:20:42Dax Shepard?

  I think if you're a performer, you're watching that and you're just like, oh my gosh.

• 1:20:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:20:47Dax Shepard?

  I mean, it's literally your nightmares when you get into this.

• 1:20:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:20:50Dax Shepard?

  You kind of walked through a nightmare for a while.

• 1:20:52Speaker 02

  That's interesting that you point that out. Yeah, man.

• 1:20:54Dax Shepard?

  Killed me.

• 1:20:55Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 1:20:55Dax Shepard?

  Because you're confirming the fear you've had since you were 20 years old.

• 1:20:58Speaker 02

  Interesting.

• 1:20:59Dax Shepard?

  Your subconscious, your shadow, you brought yourself to your greatest fear. I suck. You proved it to yourself.

• 1:21:04Speaker 02

  I did.

• 1:21:05Dax Shepard?

  It's not the embarrassment of this or the interview on the talk show.

• 1:21:09Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:21:09Dax Shepard?

  It's the actually bringing your fear to life in the most palpable, real way is wild psychologically.

• 1:21:18Speaker 02

  And making a false promise to those people that they were in for a night of fun and folly, you know?

• 1:21:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:21:25Speaker 02

  That's why I descended into just a pit of complete darkness and went silent after I got home from that. I thanked everybody for their time and just decided to enlist a whole new crew. And that's when all the other shit started, you know? I just, I needed to get so freaking numb.

• 1:21:41Dax Shepard?

  I have three more questions I'm gonna try to get in quick because you've given us so much of your time and I love it.

• 1:21:44Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:21:45Speaker 02

  And I'm sorry that every question turns into like this long.

• 1:21:47Dax Shepard?

  No.

• 1:21:48Speaker 01

  That's what we love.

• 1:21:49Dax Shepard?

  Exactly what we love.

• 1:21:50Speaker 02

  Actually never really even answers the fucking question.

• 1:21:52Speaker 01

  This is exactly what we like.

• 1:21:54Dax Shepard?

  The one question I have, and this is just nosy, but the one thing I was a little wanted from the doc, and I'm not to that point in the book, is what's happening financially? You made so much fucking money. Do you not still make a lot of money on Two and a Half Men?

• 1:22:07Speaker 02

  I don't.

• 1:22:07Dax Shepard?

  Were those like buyouts of residuals?

• 1:22:09Speaker 02

  Based on choices that I made during anger management, I came to this place where everybody thinks that, oh, because that contract and all this, I think I only did eight episodes at that fee.

• 1:22:19Dax Shepard?

  Crazy fee, okay.

• 1:22:20Speaker 02

  Which is still more than.

• 1:22:22Dax Shepard?

  Sure, anyone deserves.

• 1:22:23Speaker 02

  Yeah. I had a crooked business manager at the time. I said, I haven't felt rich. I want to feel rich. So I want to buy an airplane, you know?

• 1:22:31Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:22:32Speaker 02

  And he's like, well, no, just charter. I'm like, no, no, no, I gotta, I can buy half of this one airplane. And he's like, well, the front or the back? I'm like, fuck off, right? So I did that and I got this giant line of credit and then lived like a rock star.

• 1:22:45Dax Shepard?

  A billionaire.

• 1:22:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:22:46Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:22:46Speaker 02

  Loved it until.

• 1:22:48Dax Shepard?

  I gotta tell Monica, he was spending 15 to $30,000 a day on crack.

• 1:22:54Speaker 02

  It was a lot.

• 1:22:55Dax Shepard?

  Can you compute that?

• 1:22:55Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:22:56Speaker 02

  There was a moment, and it's in the doc and it's pretty cool, and it's in the book, where my supplier, my middle man, was a guy named Marco, terrific guy. And his south of the border connection was where it was coming from. And they, at one point, said, we gotta talk to your guy, because we didn't give him permission to be a dealer.

• 1:23:14Dax Shepard?

  He's a customer, not a distributor.

• 1:23:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. And it was this moment where we had to convince them.

• 1:23:20Dax Shepard?

  Oh, no, I'm smoking it.

• 1:23:21Speaker 01

  It's all for me.

• 1:23:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. They were like, oh, okay, well, geez.

• 1:23:25Dax Shepard?

  Carry on, good man.

• 1:23:26Speaker 02

  Is he okay? But carry on, good man, for sure. Every fiddler at some point needs to get paid for those dances. And it came time to pay off that line of credit. And the only asset I had was my back end on two and a half, which would pay in increments, quarterly. Six people had their hands in it.

• 1:23:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:23:43Speaker 02

  So by the time it got to me, it was still more money than

• 1:23:46Dax Shepard?

  anyone deserves.

• 1:23:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, 10,000 people could live on, but it still didn't satisfy.

• 1:23:51Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:51Speaker 02

  Crazy. And so I chose to not be held hostage by the bank, and just sold that and paid that and just wiped the slate.

• 1:23:59Dax Shepard?

  I understand the decision.

• 1:24:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, and the universe plays fair sometimes. And I think a lot of that stuff was taken from me because the excesses that it was funding. I was not a good steward of it.

• 1:24:09Dax Shepard?

  The universe has a way of taking things away that you're not a good steward of.

• 1:24:12Speaker 02

  And I think the reduction, the night and day, like shutdown of that kind of earning power, or at least access to it, I think that's another thing that saved my life.

• 1:24:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:24:24Speaker 02

  You know, when I quit drinking, I think it's covered differently in the book than it is in the doc. I was at a place where it was okay to just reattach myself to very basic things. And at the same time, the most important people

• 1:24:37Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:24:38Speaker 02

  in my life, children, family.

• 1:24:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:24:41Speaker 02

  Old friends.

• 1:24:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:24:42Speaker 02

  And so I didn't need that kind of wealth to feel rich with all these kids

• 1:24:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:24:49Speaker 02

  who suddenly didn't care about a TV rating or a salary thing.

• 1:24:53Dax Shepard?

  Well, you had this most beautiful moment in the doc, and this is where it's just absolutely gut-wrenching and beautiful, which is, his daughter had to be somewhere, and he would never drive her drunk. And he sent his driver, and he had joined her, and they're together with a driver.

• 1:25:06Speaker 02

  Well, it was Tony Todd. It was actually my best friend.

• 1:25:07Dax Shepard?

  Oh, yeah, he was the most lovely guy.

• 1:25:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:25:09Dax Shepard?

  What this guy went through.

• 1:25:11Speaker 02

  What he's seen.

• 1:25:12Dax Shepard?

  Never, ever used, and was along for the whole ride to make sure Charlie didn't die.

• 1:25:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:25:16Dax Shepard?

  Beautiful dude.

• 1:25:18Speaker 01

  So much.

• 1:25:19Speaker 02

  It was a hair appointment that I had just completely forgotten about. And I'm a Virgo and I don't forget a lot of stuff. Yeah, but when you disappoint a child, that's the worst feeling in the world. When's your birthday?

• 1:25:28Speaker 01

  August 24th.

• 1:25:29Speaker 02

  Oh, okay. I'm September 3rd.

• 1:25:30Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:25:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:25:31Speaker 01

  Close.

• 1:25:32Speaker 02

  So it was just this moment coming home in the car and, you know, we were on time, thanks to Tony. Sam got her thing taken care of. I was in the front seat and I could see her in the mirrors. I could see her on the side and also in the visor. And I just saw her back there and I'm not clairvoyant, but I could feel the thoughts about, why isn't it just me and dad?

• 1:25:50Speaker 01

  Yeah. How old was she?

• 1:25:51Speaker 02

  12 or 13.

• 1:25:52Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:25:52Speaker 02

  Why isn't it just me and dad like it used to be? Had an awakening. I have to make a decision, decisions to never have this happen again. Like a sacred vow to the forces that I believe in. You can call it God and did. There was another thing in the mix. That's what started that. That was the catalyst for sure. It was that just one really beautiful, magical, cosmic frickin' moment. And it happened in such a simple circumstance.

• 1:26:21Dax Shepard?

  It's not a third act resolution. It's not cinematic. It's so tiny. That somehow breaks through in that moment, which is suspicious and interesting.

• 1:26:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, the biggest thing showed up in, I don't want to call it the smallest moment,

• 1:26:32Dax Shepard?

  but there's no yelling. She didn't go, dad, why don't you love me? You just looked at her and you saw it all.

• 1:26:38Speaker 02

  Just knew. And then right after that, there had been some advances with the HIV meds. They said, look, we want you to change your cocktail. I'm gonna shrink it and try these two new things. But here's the kicker. You can't drink on this one. The other, you could drink your face off. And they worked fine.

• 1:26:53Dax Shepard?

  As you've been doing.

• 1:26:54Speaker 02

  Why did they tell me that?

• 1:26:56Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:26:56Speaker 02

  Why did they tell me that? Right? I said, all right, I'll not drink for a month and see how the pills are working. And they were working great. I was like, okay, let's do another month. That just turned into a thing.

• 1:27:05Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:27:06Speaker 02

  Sam started it, but then this other thing that was like, my life was at stake. I'm not saying it wasn't with the other shit, but they showed up at the same time.

• 1:27:15Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:27:16Speaker 02

  And I don't believe in coincidences.

• 1:27:17Speaker 01

  You kinda asked for help from the universe and it gave it to you.

• 1:27:21Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 1:27:22Dax Shepard?

  Here's my hardest question.

• 1:27:23Speaker 02

  Oh, Jesus.

• 1:27:24Dax Shepard?

  This is the last one. This is the last one.

• 1:27:25Speaker 02

  Those were easy ones?

• 1:27:26Dax Shepard?

  I weeded out one of them. This is the last one. So I am watching this doc and I'm just falling in love with you. And I know everyone that will watch it will fall in love with you. And I know everyone that'll watch this will be in love with you.

• 1:27:37Speaker 02

  Right on.

• 1:27:38Dax Shepard?

  And the pattern's so insanely obvious. It's like ridiculous. The pattern is you get a ton, you fucking obliterate.

• 1:27:48Dax Shepard?

  You got nothing. You somehow get a ton. You obliterate it. And so I'm watching it and I'm loving you and I know how everyone's gonna feel. And I know you're gonna have another opportunity to go be brilliant on a sitcom.

• 1:27:59Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 1:27:59Dax Shepard?

  Or a film or whatever it is.

• 1:28:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:28:01Dax Shepard?

  And that terrifies the fuck out of me.

• 1:28:04Speaker 02

  Interesting. Wow.

• 1:28:04Dax Shepard?

  I'm so scared for you to be given all the shit again. Are you afraid of?

• 1:28:09Speaker 02

  I'm not.

• 1:28:09Dax Shepard?

  Has it crossed your mind?

• 1:28:10Speaker 02

  Of course.

• 1:28:11Dax Shepard?

  Okay, okay.

• 1:28:11Speaker 02

  Of course. Yeah, no, I'm cautious about it.

• 1:28:13Dax Shepard?

  I even thought of my own role in this. Like, do I wanna play a role in it?

• 1:28:18Speaker 01

  In getting people to re-love?

• 1:28:20Dax Shepard?

  To love you and root for you and let you be back up there where I do think you have the talent to be and deserve. Do I wanna play a role in that? I don't ever wanna see you

• 1:28:29Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 1:28:30Dax Shepard?

  on TV again fucked up.

• 1:28:32Speaker 02

  Me neither.

• 1:28:32Dax Shepard?

  And I literally had to think ethically, like, do I wanna be a part of this process? Cause I now love this dude from afar.

• 1:28:40Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 1:28:40Speaker 01

  And you understand that, Adam.

• 1:28:41Dax Shepard?

  And I know.

• 1:28:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I haven't been in a professional environment in a long time where I was there for all the right reasons, that I was contributing in a high stakes, creative environment.

• 1:28:53Dax Shepard?

  With the right intention.

• 1:28:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, man. It's not about proving it. It's just about feeling that again. By feeling that, I think there's proof in that, that he's back here for the right reasons. And I think the work will show that, whatever that work turns out to be.

• 1:29:07Dax Shepard?

  Let's put it this way. We have a great adage in our secret society, which is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results is the definition of insanity. So I guess my curiosity is, as you enter into that, the game plan has to already be a place, like, oh, what are we gonna do differently this time? We're not gonna wait till we're there to figure out what we're gonna do differently. We're gonna know what we're doing differently before we get there.

• 1:29:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:29:31Dax Shepard?

  It's not my place to challenge you like this. It's just, as someone who loves you and is in this fellowship, I wanna know that there's a game plan that we don't wait till we wake up.

• 1:29:39Speaker 02

  Sure. I'm gonna honor my word. That's what it comes down to. Honor my word to myself. Honor my word to the job, to the people that are trusting me with that job.

• 1:29:47Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:47Speaker 02

  That's what's different. Things change at 60.

• 1:29:50Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:29:50Speaker 02

  It's like you start figuring out, okay, 10,000 days, what's that? It's like 27 years or something. How do I really want to spend those?

• 1:29:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:29:58Speaker 02

  Cause I know what the other 10,000 looked like.

• 1:30:01Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:30:01Speaker 02

  And how I felt and just what came out of that. It doesn't fit anymore. There's no place to do it sneakily. You know what I'm saying?

• 1:30:10Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, there's no real estate for it.

• 1:30:12Speaker 02

  No, you can't even carve out your niche or some opportunity or some secret moment. It can't be a part of it.

• 1:30:19Dax Shepard?

  I just adore you.

• 1:30:20Speaker 02

  Oh, thank you. Likewise.

• 1:30:21Dax Shepard?

  You're so fucking lovable and I'm just thrilled to see you doing so well. I really am.

• 1:30:25Speaker 02

  Thank you. No, this is incredible.

• 1:30:26Dax Shepard?

  And I didn't even remember that you made a joke at my expense.

• 1:30:29Speaker 02

  Well, yeah, no, I'm thrilled that I got to close that song. Yeah.

• 1:30:33Dax Shepard?

  Well, Charlie, I adore you. Please come back.

• 1:30:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, come back. This was lovely.

• 1:30:37Speaker 02

  Sure. I'll come back and talk about the thing that I didn't screw up.

• 1:30:41Speaker 01

  Yes, that's right.

• 1:30:43Dax Shepard?

  I look forward to that.

• 1:30:44Speaker 02

  That'll be cool.

• 1:30:45Speaker 01

  Yay, thank you.

• 1:30:48Dax Shepard?

  Stay tuned for the fact check so you can hear all the facts that were wrong.

• 1:30:58Speaker 01

  Just got back from a hike.

• 1:31:00Dax Shepard?

  Third, third morning in a row.

• 1:31:02Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:31:03Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:04Speaker 01

  That's fun. Friend of the pod is visiting.

• 1:31:07Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, one of my premier boyfriends.

• 1:31:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, Vincent D'Onofrio.

• 1:31:11Dax Shepard?

  My biggest and sweetest.

• 1:31:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, he's so nice.

• 1:31:14Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. We were talking on the hike and he, he was expressing some confusion by why any women have liked him. And I said, oh, it couldn't be more obvious.

• 1:31:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:31:25Dax Shepard?

  It's so obvious.

• 1:31:27Speaker 01

  He's such a nice boy.

• 1:31:29Dax Shepard?

  He's so big and protective, yet you've, you sense that he needs some nurturing.

• 1:31:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's a good combo.

• 1:31:37Dax Shepard?

  What could be more appealing?

• 1:31:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's a very appealing combo. I agree.

• 1:31:41Dax Shepard?

  I feel it towards him.

• 1:31:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know.

• 1:31:44Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. God, is he a sweetheart.

• 1:31:45Speaker 01

  Oh yeah. Well, I have something to talk about.

• 1:31:47Dax Shepard?

  Oh, wonderful.

• 1:31:48Speaker 01

  Um, I'm going to the airport, so.

• 1:31:52Dax Shepard?

  Wonderful. I'm sorry. I thought it might be something different.

• 1:31:54Speaker 01

  It's okay.

• 1:31:55Dax Shepard?

  Wonderful.

• 1:31:56Speaker 01

  Uh, it's okay. I'm going to the airport. Two things about that. One, I'm in my out, airport outfit.

• 1:32:02Dax Shepard?

  It's very cute.

• 1:32:03Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:32:04Dax Shepard?

  Exceedingly cute outfit. You have your polar bear sweater shirt on that you love.

• 1:32:09Speaker 01

  You have to think things through. When you like fashion and you go to the airport.

• 1:32:14Dax Shepard?

  Right. It's a big coming out party, right?

• 1:32:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, people like really dress specifically and I never do that. I always just wear sweats.

• 1:32:22Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:32:23Speaker 01

  But I've been thinking more about trying to look cute at the airport.

• 1:32:27Dax Shepard?

  Sure, it's because it seems like a really fertile place for a meet cute.

• 1:32:30Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:32:31Dax Shepard?

  There's all these built in questions.

• 1:32:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:32:34Dax Shepard?

  Maybe you're on the same page like, I hate delays. Even better, you're delayed and you're watching someone lose their shit. And you look over and there's like a cute guy who's also thinking like, oh, this person's berserk. And then you go like, huh.

• 1:32:44Speaker 01

  I see you.

• 1:32:45Dax Shepard?

  Yes, we both, we recognize that. So now we're on the same team. We're on that we're sane team.

• 1:32:50Speaker 01

  That's right. We're sane, but I don't want to be worse sane. We're sane, we're sane.

• 1:32:57Dax Shepard?

  Yes, yes, same, same.

• 1:32:58Speaker 01

  And although I don't, I don't know about, you know, um, commiserating over someone else's misery.

• 1:33:06Dax Shepard?

  Not their misery.

• 1:33:07Speaker 01

  Their behavior.

• 1:33:08Dax Shepard?

  Their, um, shitty behavior towards the clerk at the gate, whatever we're calling it. Gate attendant?

• 1:33:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's right. Injustice.

• 1:33:19Dax Shepard?

  Yes, yes, yes, yes.

• 1:33:20Speaker 01

  Um.

• 1:33:21Dax Shepard?

  Or to be embarrassed for someone is good.

• 1:33:23Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:33:24Dax Shepard?

  I am in first class. Like if you saw someone yelling like.

• 1:33:27Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:33:28Dax Shepard?

  I paid $2,300 for this ticket. And you'd be like, oh, and then you'd look over, you'd be going just like this, like, oh. And you'd look over and the guy would be like this. And then you go, you go, this is cute. We're both.

• 1:33:38Speaker 01

  What's your name?

• 1:33:39Dax Shepard?

  What's your name anyways?

• 1:33:42Speaker 01

  Anyways.

• 1:33:46Speaker 01

  Um, well, I hope that happens.

• 1:33:48Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:48Speaker 01

  That would be a great turn of events.

• 1:33:50Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 1:33:50Speaker 01

  But anyway, part of the airport outfit situation for me though, is I'm really not, I do. This maybe is the only time I really prioritize comfort as well.

• 1:34:00Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:01Speaker 01

  And so I have to wear some sort of tennis like shoe, some sort of comfortable shoe.

• 1:34:06Dax Shepard?

  Uh huh.

• 1:34:06Speaker 01

  And pockets. I had on other pants and I realized, nope. I had to put on these. These are less cute than the ones I had on. They're still cute pants.

• 1:34:15Dax Shepard?

  Hard to believe, but okay.

• 1:34:16Speaker 01

  They're still good pants.

• 1:34:17Dax Shepard?

  They get your word.

• 1:34:18Speaker 01

  But pockets.

• 1:34:19Dax Shepard?

  But what scares me about these trousers you're wearing is sure, pockets, but so flowy. Doesn't everything fall immediately out of these pockets when you sit down?

• 1:34:28Speaker 01

  No, it's mainly, and it's not mainly for the sitting. It's walking through the airport. I like to have my phone in my pocket, not in my bag.

• 1:34:38Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:34:38Speaker 01

  And sometimes, yeah, my ticket or my wallet.

• 1:34:44Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:34:45Dax Shepard?

  Is that on sight, Lea?

• 1:34:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't know if we're allowed to say that anymore in 2025. But yeah, so I, um.

• 1:34:51Dax Shepard?

  Well, when you're having your meet cute with the guy, I want you to go like, oh my gosh, I'm so embarrassed. You've caught me with my wallet in my pocket. And I don't want you to hold that against me. I don't normally.

• 1:35:01Speaker 01

  I don't normally do that.

• 1:35:02Dax Shepard?

  It's an airport thing?

• 1:35:04Speaker 01

  What are your airport things?

• 1:35:05Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:06Speaker 01

  Oh, wow.

• 1:35:06Dax Shepard?

  And then you realize for that first time, he's holding a sphere or something, or whatever you call it, a staff.

• 1:35:13Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:35:13Dax Shepard?

  And he goes this, and you're like, oh my God, I didn't even see that. Yeah, you're holding like a four foot staff.

• 1:35:18Speaker 01

  What's that about?

• 1:35:19Dax Shepard?

  Right. I thought you were just a wizard. Oh my God, that's so exciting. I can't, go ahead.

• 1:35:24Speaker 01

  No, no, you can go ahead. We'll circle back.

• 1:35:26Dax Shepard?

  No, I don't want to.

• 1:35:28Speaker 01

  This is gonna take up a lot of the conversation, so I assume this is probably not whatever you're about to say.

• 1:35:33Dax Shepard?

  Have you seen the photos by chance of Eric's dad traveling the world?

• 1:35:38Speaker 01

  Oh, some, yes.

• 1:35:39Dax Shepard?

  Friend of the pod, Eric Richardson.

• 1:35:41Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:35:42Dax Shepard?

  His dad is like just been gone for a year. He started in Ecuador for a while. He was living in Prue now. So now I got this picture of him in Egypt. Can you see that?

• 1:35:51Speaker 01

  Oh my gosh.

• 1:35:53Dax Shepard?

  And he does walk with a staff.

• 1:35:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, he does. Well, he's older.

• 1:35:56Dax Shepard?

  Yes, and I'm gonna show you one more. Look at this. And he's doing cute things. He's holding up glasses in front of the Sphinx.

• 1:36:02Speaker 01

  He's doing such cute things.

• 1:36:04Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:05Speaker 01

  He's like, you know, when you're like pinching your, how do you say this?

• 1:36:09Dax Shepard?

  There's like a forced perspective where you are pinching something far in the distance.

• 1:36:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, acting as if you're holding it.

• 1:36:16Dax Shepard?

  Yes, and he's got sunglasses on the Sphinx. But I took a couple, look at those photos, and I said, he is a wardrobe away from being a wizard. Look at this photo I made.

• 1:36:27Speaker 01

  Oh, you made? You made that. That's really cute.

• 1:36:30Dax Shepard?

  Doesn't he look so cute as a wizard?

• 1:36:32Speaker 01

  He does. Did you add the beard or was that?

• 1:36:33Dax Shepard?

  No, that's his real beard.

• 1:36:34Speaker 01

  Wow, yeah.

• 1:36:36Dax Shepard?

  All he has is a crushed felt cape and a crushed felt vest. So the first one I did, by the way, this was insanely easy.

• 1:36:43Speaker 01

  Okay, I was, first of all, I'm impressed. I assume you did this via AI?

• 1:36:47Dax Shepard?

  I did, I did. And I had never done this. I've had it create images like, I want a Chevy van with cool wheels, whatever. This was, I uploaded the photo of him and I said, can you put a wizard's cap and a, and a purple cape on this man?

• 1:37:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:37:02Dax Shepard?

  And within 25 seconds, there it was.

• 1:37:04Speaker 01

  And it looks really good.

• 1:37:06Dax Shepard?

  It looked really good. I was really proud of it. I sent it to Eric.

• 1:37:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:37:09Dax Shepard?

  And then the second photo, I was like, I'm gonna give this thing a little more liberty. Instead of saying, I just said, make this, make the man in this photo look like a wizard. And then AI put him in a vest and put a little glowing thing on his sphere. Did a great job.

• 1:37:24Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:37:25Dax Shepard?

  It looks like something someone great at Photoshop would have spent a week on.

• 1:37:29Speaker 01

  Exactly. That, when you first said you made it.

• 1:37:32Dax Shepard?

  You were suspicious.

• 1:37:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was like, you made that?

• 1:37:34Dax Shepard?

  It's not even fair to say I made it.

• 1:37:36Speaker 01

  That's the ethics around this, but you did.

• 1:37:40Dax Shepard?

  It didn't exist until I got involved.

• 1:37:42Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:37:42Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:37:43Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:37:44Dax Shepard?

  Okay, just the staff made me think of that.

• 1:37:46Speaker 01

  That's really cute. Well, it's actually sort of a ding ding ding because Eric's dad is older and he's in Egypt.

• 1:37:54Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:54Speaker 01

  Like, he's out and about, he's really, um.

• 1:37:58Dax Shepard?

  He has a young friend.

• 1:37:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, he has a young friend and he's not letting life like get him down. He's pinching the pyramid. That's so wonderful.

• 1:38:06Dax Shepard?

  I know.

• 1:38:07Speaker 01

  And I really love people who are really just like taking life on.

• 1:38:12Dax Shepard?

  And for me, it makes me really optimistic. Like, wait, I could have an adventure like that still in 40 years from now?

• 1:38:19Speaker 01

  Exactly. Yeah, it's very, it's very life-affirming. I love that. And, okay, so I have bad news personally.

• 1:38:27Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:28Speaker 01

  Um, there was a sudden, pretty tragic death in my family on my dad's side. My aunt drowned. It's a really weird thing to say.

• 1:38:42Dax Shepard?

  It is.

• 1:38:42Speaker 01

  Um.

• 1:38:43Dax Shepard?

  My first question to you was like. Is there foul play? That's so weird.

• 1:38:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, and of course, they did have to rule that out.

• 1:38:51Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:52Speaker 01

  Um, she was older too, but also very like Eric's dad. She would travel all the time and she, um, yeah, it was very like vital and enjoying life. So it was very, it was just very shocking on so many levels. Yes. My parents had just seen her a couple of months ago and she was, um,

• 1:39:15Dax Shepard?

  Thriving.

• 1:39:15Speaker 01

  Yeah. So, yeah, my mom, she, you know, I'm so bad at this. Like when I'm sleeping, I don't hear the phone ringing.

• 1:39:23Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 1:39:23Speaker 01

  I just don't hear it. So I didn't hear it. They obviously called me and then I woke up to texts, of course. And my mom was like, Aunt Lily died. I'm, that's my, I'm named after her.

• 1:39:35Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:39:36Speaker 01

  Um, call me, call me, you know? And I was like, of course, expecting like some sort of heart attack or natural, more natural.

• 1:39:44Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 1:39:45Speaker 01

  Cause so of course it's all very shock. Everyone's in shock and, um, I'm leaving today, obviously to go be with my family.

• 1:39:53Dax Shepard?

  In the great state of Washington.

• 1:39:54Speaker 01

  Yes, that's where she lived and where her daughter lives.

• 1:39:58Dax Shepard?

  Perfect time of year.

• 1:39:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think it'll be nice.

• 1:40:01Dax Shepard?

  No, they always, September is always the nicest month in Washington.

• 1:40:04Speaker 01

  Okay, that's good.

• 1:40:04Dax Shepard?

  It's their warmest month. It's very Indian summer, always there.

• 1:40:07Speaker 01

  Well, Indian ding ding ding.

• 1:40:09Dax Shepard?

  Oh, wow. Double entendre.

• 1:40:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, she was Indian.

• 1:40:13Dax Shepard?

  She was Indian.

• 1:40:13Speaker 01

  For people who don't know, but yeah, so, so it's been a lot to process and deal with. Uh, and, but, you know, she really is an inspiration.

• 1:40:26Dax Shepard?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:40:27Speaker 01

  She was a single lady. She did a lot of things.

• 1:40:31Dax Shepard?

  Very successful.

• 1:40:32Speaker 01

  Extremely successful. She came to this country. She went to like the big, the best business school in India. Then she came to this country and she started all these businesses and she was very successful. She brought my dad over and she lived with, like, you know, she kind of like shepherded him.

• 1:40:49Dax Shepard?

  As much as I know about your family, this was a revelation when you told me she had come first.

• 1:40:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:40:55Dax Shepard?

  And brought your dad over.

• 1:40:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:40:57Dax Shepard?

  Since you've told me that, it's funny what things, what little details can all of a sudden explain so much. Like, there's a lot about your dad.

• 1:41:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:41:06Dax Shepard?

  That was an enigma to me.

• 1:41:07Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:41:08Dax Shepard?

  And, and not knowing that piece of the puzzle, this is kind of like, so like his. Respect and deference for women.

• 1:41:16Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:41:19Dax Shepard?

  Don't kill me. Coming from a culture that maybe sometimes that's not the, you know.

• 1:41:23Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:41:24Dax Shepard?

  I just think he's uniquely.

• 1:41:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:41:27Dax Shepard?

  Not threatened by a strong woman. His wife was a gangster and he supported it. And I'm like, oh yeah, he had a badass sister who actually paved the way for him to come here.

• 1:41:36Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:41:36Dax Shepard?

  I get, now I get it.

• 1:41:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, yes, that is correct. And, and mother who allowed all that to happen too, you know. But yeah, my dad is a little brother. He's the youngest of all these kids, you know? He's little brother energy. And he has.

• 1:41:56Dax Shepard?

  You should like it more than.

• 1:41:59Speaker 01

  But I can still eye roll at it. But I like that he's a little brother.

• 1:42:03Dax Shepard?

  Neil must have a shared language to some degree.

• 1:42:06Speaker 01

  Well, they have older sisters, older successful sisters.

• 1:42:09Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:42:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:42:10Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. You must see Neil in a, in a unique way.

• 1:42:15Speaker 01

  Probably. I've never even really thought about that. I don't know if he's even thought about that.

• 1:42:19Dax Shepard?

  Like I see Delta in a unique way.

• 1:42:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:42:21Dax Shepard?

  Cause I was a little sibling and I know what she's going through.

• 1:42:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's very interesting. Yeah, probably.

• 1:42:30Speaker 01

  But yeah, he, he, you know, obviously has a very special relationship with her. So I was, and then, you know, I'm like worried about my dad and it's all, it's just all, it's like so much. And, and then, you know, and then there's guilt because I'm like, oh, like, oh, like I get kind of mad at all of it. Like this is so upsetting. Like why did this happen? This is, I hate, this is inconvenient. This, you know, like death is really inconvenient.

• 1:43:00Dax Shepard?

  It rarely falls on spring break or.

• 1:43:03Speaker 01

  And then that's inconvenient in its own way. Like, you know, it's not.

• 1:43:06Dax Shepard?

  There's never a great time.

• 1:43:07Speaker 01

  There's never a great time and.

• 1:43:09Dax Shepard?

  Let's take one second though. If we had to pick.

• 1:43:13Speaker 01

  The time.

• 1:43:14Dax Shepard?

  I have the time for me.

• 1:43:17Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:43:18Dax Shepard?

  January 2nd.

• 1:43:19Speaker 01

  Your birthday?

• 1:43:20Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, but it's already the shittiest day. Everyone's already like, you've already had all the fun you can have and it feels so long before you're gonna have some fun again. It's like, yeah, let's just throw it in there because it's already gonna be a slump. So let's just do it then. I think that's the ideal. You don't want it leading into summer. You don't want it over one of the holidays.

• 1:43:40Speaker 01

  Ah.

• 1:43:41Dax Shepard?

  Right?

• 1:43:42Speaker 01

  What about the 3rd? So at least you got one more, you're one age older.

• 1:43:47Dax Shepard?

  That's fine. Well, I would still be one age older on the 2nd because that's officially when I.

• 1:43:52Speaker 01

  I don't know if I count it.

• 1:43:53Dax Shepard?

  We don't want to ruin New Year's Day.

• 1:43:56Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:43:56Dax Shepard?

  Right, we gotta watch football that day. The 2nd is the shittiest day of the year. I think objectively.

• 1:44:03Speaker 01

  No, I don't like any of this because then it's like the year starts with this horrible thing. Then in my head, I'm like, this is the worst year. It's a bad year.

• 1:44:14Dax Shepard?

  That's a fair pushback.

• 1:44:15Speaker 01

  So maybe the, maybe the 31st. Or well, maybe the funeral on the 31st so that you can start.

• 1:44:24Dax Shepard?

  On New Year's Eve?

• 1:44:25Speaker 01

  Uh, well, I just want it.

• 1:44:26Dax Shepard?

  No one wants to go to a funeral on New Year's Eve.

• 1:44:28Speaker 01

  Okay, the 28th or something.

• 1:44:30Dax Shepard?

  You want a great meal.

• 1:44:30Speaker 01

  Because I just want the new year to start clean.

• 1:44:33Dax Shepard?

  Clean, okay.

• 1:44:34Speaker 01

  Okay. Now, I hate what we just did. Okay, so please not go with it.

• 1:44:38Dax Shepard?

  My pitch is January 2nd or late April in Michigan when it's like you thought summer came and that didn't. Now the winter's back and you're already like, fuck all this. Again, throw it there where you're already gonna be miserable. So just cap out the misery when you're already experiencing it. Don't taint any of the joy.

• 1:44:58Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:44:59Dax Shepard?

  Put it all in one bag.

• 1:45:00Speaker 01

  I see what you mean, but also it could really push someone over the edge if they're already feeling miserable.

• 1:45:06Dax Shepard?

  To the breaking point.

• 1:45:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, and so we don't, I don't, I think we need to rethink some of it.

• 1:45:09Dax Shepard?

  Although, okay, this is fun. I think there's a limit of how shitty you can feel. Like, I've hit it before, right? It's like, I feel so shitty.

• 1:45:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:45:20Dax Shepard?

  And then like, I'm just at the bottom for long enough that I go, I don't even know what the actual switch is that flips, but I go, yeah, that's it. I can't feel any better and I can't feel any better any longer.

• 1:45:32Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:45:32Dax Shepard?

  I just almost like, I get fatigued of being so shitty.

• 1:45:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, but I, I know what you mean and I have felt that, but I've also like. I have thought if one more thing happens, like my body will not be able to take it. Like it's already, I can feel my nervous system is like really teetering.

• 1:45:54Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:54Speaker 01

  And if, if, if we get another something.

• 1:45:58Dax Shepard?

  Critical mass.

• 1:45:59Speaker 01

  I don't know, then I'll die and then my dad will be, oh my God, imagine that.

• 1:46:05Dax Shepard?

  No, that's not even ever.

• 1:46:06Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:46:06Dax Shepard?

  You're knocking on a lot of things that don't necessarily deserve knocking, but that one shouldn't be sad.

• 1:46:11Speaker 01

  Whatever. Anywho, so she was very special to him and, and very special in general. And she did things her own way and she did a lot of things Indian people don't do. She got divorced.

• 1:46:25Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, good for her.

• 1:46:25Speaker 01

  She, you know, was very independent, you know, had these houses, dyed her hair fun colors. Like she's just a very unique woman.

• 1:46:36Dax Shepard?

  She ever shaved her sides?

• 1:46:37Speaker 01

  She would have. She definitely would have.

• 1:46:40Dax Shepard?

  We should have had a meal or something.

• 1:46:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:46:43Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:46:43Speaker 01

  Um, very spunky and you know, it's not really lost on me that I have a lot of that.

• 1:46:52Dax Shepard?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:46:52Speaker 01

  Um, and that's makes me feel proud, but also I'm like, oh my God. Because I'm not going to get into the details of the drowning, obviously, but, um, you know, she did things her own way. And she decided to do things that maybe were not advisable.

• 1:47:18Dax Shepard?

  This way too. I mean.

• 1:47:19Speaker 01

  I, no, you can't. This is my, this is a cautionary tale.

• 1:47:24Dax Shepard?

  I'm gonna be 96, I'm like, I can hang glide. I never tried it.

• 1:47:27Speaker 01

  Exactly. This is cautionary tale time because I am like, but you know, whatever. I guess it's like.

• 1:47:35Dax Shepard?

  No, right? Cause that's what got her to this place where you admire her.

• 1:47:38Speaker 01

  That's exactly the whole thing. It's like this thing. Yes. This thing that made her live this very special life is also sort of the thing that.

• 1:47:47Dax Shepard?

  May have taken her down.

• 1:47:49Speaker 01

  Yes. But for her.

• 1:47:52Speaker 01

  And that's probably the way she would have wanted it. I mean, I don't think anyone would ever want to drown. I mean, that's that's the thing that's, I think messing with everyone's head so much is like, there was likely.

• 1:48:03Dax Shepard?

  We can imagine how much suffering there would be.

• 1:48:05Speaker 01

  Exactly. Um, and that's horrible.

• 1:48:08Dax Shepard?

  That's brutal, but uh, someone with her, what's what I feel like I understand her personality to be and mine.

• 1:48:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:48:15Dax Shepard?

  If I have the choice of going out in control, something I chose to do versus some crazy disease that just.

• 1:48:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's interesting.

• 1:48:25Dax Shepard?

  My dad, right? Like three months goodbye. Yeah, I'd rather die a year earlier and have it on my terms for me.

• 1:48:33Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, I hear, I hear you. I, I think, again, there's just so many different personalities. I don't think she probably felt in control when she was drowning.

• 1:48:43Dax Shepard?

  No, but she died by a decision she made, not that the universe made for her.

• 1:48:48Speaker 01

  That's right. And in some ways, what's what? The universe did make it. Like we, you know, I don't know.

• 1:48:56Dax Shepard?

  I don't know either.

• 1:48:57Speaker 01

  And it's been really interesting, uh, because, you know, my parent, my, my aunt, this aunt, Aunt Lily, and my grandpa on my dad, on my mom's side, sorry, on my mom's side, who passed away a couple of years ago, who I was very, very close with. They are the reason my parents are married. They met through work and they were like, let's.

• 1:49:24Dax Shepard?

  They started meddling.

• 1:49:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, let's put these two people together. They might be a good fit. And then my cousin.

• 1:49:31Dax Shepard?

  They shook on it?

• 1:49:32Speaker 01

  Well, no, my cousin sent me, um, she found this letter. It was from my grandpa to my aunt.

• 1:49:39Dax Shepard?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:49:40Speaker 01

  And it has a picture of my mom. And it's like, you know, it's, and it's so special and it is like.

• 1:49:48Dax Shepard?

  Was he saying what a great catch she would be?

• 1:49:50Speaker 01

  I also can't read it very well. It's very scrawly handwriting. Um, so I'm only making out certain words. But it is, you know, you can like, my daughter and, and my dad's names in there. And it's kind of, and it's, it's basically like.

• 1:50:08Speaker 01

  Let's have them meet and then see if they're compatible and then it's up to them. So it was kind of this like, you know, half, half arrangement, but it's so weird to see that piece of history.

• 1:50:19Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:20Speaker 01

  And even the times are just so different. Like, yeah, if they were now, none of this probably would have happened.

• 1:50:25Dax Shepard?

  They would have gone on each other's Instagram and find four things they don't, they decide were deal breakers.

• 1:50:30Speaker 01

  Exactly, exactly. And yeah, and yeah, it's like this origin story and it's so wild. I really hope.

• 1:50:39Dax Shepard?

  You should write something about it. It feels like there's fun pieces in there to write.

• 1:50:42Speaker 01

  Yeah. But you know, they're both gone now, both of those people and, and, but it led to this like beautiful thing.

• 1:50:53Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:53Speaker 01

  And it's special.

• 1:50:54Dax Shepard?

  Into you.

• 1:50:55Speaker 01

  I know, wouldn't be here without those two.

• 1:50:57Dax Shepard?

  When you're at the memorial.

• 1:50:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:50:59Dax Shepard?

  Will you say, "My friend Dax wanted to thank you for pulling him out of the financial shadow he lived under his wife."

• 1:51:07Speaker 01

  Um, maybe you can send me that in a text. I don't know if I'll be able to remember it. I'll pull out my phone and I'll read it. I had a friend say, I thought very poignantly, when someone exits the physical world, it really just like unearths all the ghosts from, for the people still here. She's like, that's the haunting. It's not the, the person coming back. It's all your stuff coming up. And I was like, that's right.

• 1:51:40Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:51:41Speaker 01

  So, um, anyway, that's that. I'm gonna go. We're gonna celebrate her life.

• 1:51:46Dax Shepard?

  Great. What kind of, is it following the guidelines of any existing tradition? Or will this be its own?

• 1:51:54Speaker 01

  I'm not, I'm not sure.

• 1:51:56Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:51:57Speaker 01

  Well, I'll, I'll find out. Um, anyway, so that's, that's my update.

• 1:52:03Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, that's a big update.

• 1:52:04Speaker 01

  It's a big update, but you know.

• 1:52:07Speaker 01

  Gotta, gotta be grateful.

• 1:52:09Dax Shepard?

  Can't imagine you were in a state of mind to go do this, but you didn't happen to see one problem after another, did you?

• 1:52:15Speaker 01

  I'm dying to see it.

• 1:52:17Dax Shepard?

  I saw it yesterday. One battle?

• 1:52:19Speaker 01

  Oh, one battle.

• 1:52:20Dax Shepard?

  Sorry, sorry, sorry. One battle after another. Did you see it, Rob? Yeah, I saw it. Did you love it? Yeah, I loved it. It's fucking awesome, man. On a bunch of levels. One, the acting's insane. And this Leonardo the guy, I don't say anything new, but my God, he just will not quit being fucking brilliant. So brilliant.

• 1:52:39Speaker 01

  Does it move kind of fast? Cause it's long and I, you know, I have some aversion now to long movies.

• 1:52:44Dax Shepard?

  I could not tell it was long.

• 1:52:45Speaker 01

  Okay, great.

• 1:52:46Dax Shepard?

  I had not looked at the runtime before I went. But it is mega movie. You're like, you, there's so much in it.

• 1:52:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:52:55Dax Shepard?

  What were you about to say, Rob? The music in it is incredible, too. Music was incredible. It's Johnny Greenwood that did it from Radiohead.

• 1:53:03Speaker 01

  Oh, cool.

• 1:53:04Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, music's awesome. The, the, the, the needle drops are awesome, like Steely Dan's in it. It's, it's great. Ben Hitzio is fucking awesome. Sean Penn is insane. He's absolutely insane. And, um, and then of course it's a daddy daughter story. Which I didn't even know going in.

• 1:53:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:53:24Dax Shepard?

  And so sure, we get to the end of the movie and I'm like.

• 1:53:27Speaker 01

  Don't spoil.

• 1:53:27Dax Shepard?

  I'm not spoiling anything. I just know that I was like watching, watching. I was like.

• 1:53:38Dax Shepard?

  I, I cannot do these daddy daughter things. I'm like Interstellar, I didn't understand one thing that was going on, but I knew that he was gonna miss his daughter's life.

• 1:53:46Speaker 01

  Oh, my God. Interstellar is the, is the most like devastating. It's such.

• 1:53:51Dax Shepard?

  And I don't even know what's going on, but I know.

• 1:53:54Speaker 01

  Doesn't matter.

• 1:53:55Dax Shepard?

  It doesn't matter, cause there's a daddy daughter thing happening. And there's one to miss, so it's like, I'm not even sure how, how, um, like when I recommend it, I like, I don't know. I was moved beyond belief because.

• 1:54:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:54:08Dax Shepard?

  There isn't anywhere someone could hide on planet Earth.

• 1:54:12Speaker 01

  Oh, sorry, Rob. Dads and Sons. Dads and Sons don't get the same treatment and it doesn't mean.

• 1:54:20Dax Shepard?

  It's a different thing. No, we get Adolescents.

• 1:54:23Speaker 01

  Oh, my gosh.

• 1:54:26Dax Shepard?

  That's the reward.

• 1:54:29Speaker 01

  Oh, no. Yeah, it's not fair because it's it's it's not fair because it's not true. Sons and dads, it's different, but it's still, it's such an important, oh, my God.

• 1:54:42Dax Shepard?

  What's cool about father, son, with the potentials that's there.

• 1:54:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:54:47Dax Shepard?

  Is that you can idolize your dad.

• 1:54:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:54:51Dax Shepard?

  And you can have this little boy who's trying to grow up and be like you, which is so moving, I think. Like, I don't have that piece, which sounds fun a little bit.

• 1:55:00Speaker 01

  Well, OK, I take it all back. Beautiful boy.

• 1:55:03Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 1:55:04Speaker 01

  Beautiful boy, horrible movie.

• 1:55:05Dax Shepard?

  Adolescents, yeah.

• 1:55:06Speaker 01

  I know. God, it's true. All those stories are just.

• 1:55:10Dax Shepard?

  I was racking my brain and then I just thought of the other thing, which is like, um, Hit and Run's on Netflix now.

• 1:55:17Speaker 01

  Oh, I know. So exciting.

• 1:55:19Dax Shepard?

  So happy. I was so happy to be able to go to Netflix and hit play on the movie.

• 1:55:23Speaker 01

  That's awesome.

• 1:55:24Dax Shepard?

  And I wanted to just hit play on the movie.

• 1:55:27Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:55:28Dax Shepard?

  And then I got completely sucked in and then the family got sucked in and we watched it again. It was so fun. And then I was even, at the end of it, I was like, it's so weird. I chose to do father, son in that.

• 1:55:41Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 1:55:42Dax Shepard?

  Which is not, is interesting. And I think after seeing the other movie last night, I'm like, I'm not really sure why that was my.

• 1:55:49Speaker 01

  Well, the kids weren't born.

• 1:55:51Dax Shepard?

  The kids weren't born. I obviously had unresolved stuff with my dad, I guess. My dad sees me in that movie. The first thing he does is punches me.

• 1:55:58Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:55:59Dax Shepard?

  But I just was like, oh, this is really weird. Like, I don't know that you know what you're processing when you're doing stuff. And then after, maybe it makes sense and maybe even that's bullshit.

• 1:56:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:56:09Dax Shepard?

  The way you make it make sense. But I don't know, I just like, oh, that's so interesting that that was the device I decided to use to let Annie see Charlie again.

• 1:56:18Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 1:56:19Dax Shepard?

  In a different way, as opposed to doing it with his mom, per se.

• 1:56:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:56:23Dax Shepard?

  Um, I don't even know where, I don't know if Charlie has a mom in that movie. Like, that's not even a thing I even decided as a writer, right?

• 1:56:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think there's a, there's a trope, but based on reality that like.

• 1:56:38Speaker 01

  Sons and dads have, can have, that's complicated. And moms and daughters, that's complicated.

• 1:56:45Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:56:45Speaker 01

  So, I mean, it makes sense in a story when it's complicated.

• 1:56:51Dax Shepard?

  And you want conflict.

• 1:56:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I think maybe, even though, again, this isn't true, like Rainn Wilson's story, you might be like, a mom wouldn't not want to see the son. Or that wouldn't, like, it's like harder to believe.

• 1:57:07Dax Shepard?

  Yes, yes, yes.

• 1:57:08Speaker 01

  Um.

• 1:57:09Dax Shepard?

  Or not be immediately forgiving. But yeah, fathers and sons can get in these wars.

• 1:57:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:57:14Dax Shepard?

  Where it's just two proud males. And, and, and in a weird way, you're always fighting over masculinity. And when does that torch pass? And when do you see me as a real man? And then part of the definition of being a man is like, I don't apologize and I, you know, and I, so it's like, it's just so right for.

• 1:57:29Speaker 01

  There's like proving something because I think when you're a boy to a mom, you can always be a boy.

• 1:57:34Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 1:57:35Speaker 01

  But you don't feel like you can be that with a dad, but.

• 1:57:38Dax Shepard?

  You're trying to show your dad, you're, you're, you're a man. You want him to look at you and go, you did it. You're, you're a man and I'm proud of the man you are. And then you think the way you'll prove that to him is you will challenge him.

• 1:57:53Speaker 01

  Right, which is not.

• 1:57:54Dax Shepard?

  It doesn't go well.

• 1:57:55Speaker 01

  Doesn't go well. Doesn't tend to go well, yeah.

• 1:58:00Dax Shepard?

  Um, boy, I don't, um.

• 1:58:02Speaker 01

  But I'm excited to see that movie, I'm really excited.

• 1:58:05Dax Shepard?

  It's so good, it's so good.

• 1:58:07Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:58:09Dax Shepard?

  It's so good. It kills me that we're, we'll probably never talk to Leo, you know?

• 1:58:13Speaker 01

  You know he went on New Heights.

• 1:58:15Dax Shepard?

  But he, but he.

• 1:58:16Speaker 01

  With Benicio.

• 1:58:17Dax Shepard?

  With Benicio, and he's, and he went on Marc Maron with Brad.

• 1:58:20Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, a long time ago, yeah.

• 1:58:22Dax Shepard?

  It seems like clear he'll never do a one-on-one.

• 1:58:25Speaker 01

  I don't know, I mean, I'm not gonna give up on the dream.

• 1:58:28Dax Shepard?

  A lot of dreams have come true, so who knows?

• 1:58:30Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 1:58:31Dax Shepard?

  But there, there's a couple people that I just want to flight. I want to, I want them to come in and I want to blow them for two hours.

• 1:58:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, but we also need to ask them questions.

• 1:58:41Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, and you, you, you can handle that. But like, I want to do that to Tom Cruise.

• 1:58:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:58:47Dax Shepard?

  Like, I want to have him on and not talk about St. Helde, all the other stuff everyone wants. I just want, I want to tell him what a gift he's given this country for the last 35 years.

• 1:58:55Speaker 01

  Well, that is fine, but also remember that when we started this, we were like, doesn't matter. The top of the mountain is not interesting. It's, it's all these other things. It's the human things. See, I don't want him to come on and we berate him about Scientology, but I want to know about him.

• 1:59:13Dax Shepard?

  I do too, but, but, but let's just say if we do a thousand of these.

• 1:59:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:59:17Dax Shepard?

  And like five of them are just a celebration of somebody. I also don't mind that.

• 1:59:21Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:59:22Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. I don't feel like I'll be betraying the, um, the covenant so much.

• 1:59:26Speaker 01

  I have so much curiosity about who they are without that layer.

• 1:59:31Dax Shepard?

  Yes. And, and, and generally that's my curiosity.

• 1:59:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:59:35Dax Shepard?

  But it is interesting. There are a handful of people that I am actually so blown away with their work that I'm interested in it. Cause I'm not interested in someone's acting.

• 1:59:44Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:59:45Dax Shepard?

  I don't really care. Cause I do the thing. I don't think it's that incredible.

• 1:59:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:59:48Dax Shepard?

  But when I think of what Tom Cruise has done so consistently, and this thing that Adam Scott told me, like when we were bonding over our obsession with him and Adam said, his unique talent, and I think he said what he does better than anyone's ever done it, is he is not acting for himself or for the director for anything. He's acting for the audience and he understands exactly what the audience needs in every moment.

• 2:00:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:00:15Dax Shepard?

  The way he, like his mastery of understanding what it's going to be when you're sitting in a seat and watching on a big screen.

• 2:00:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:00:22Dax Shepard?

  Is like something no one's ever had. And that I'm, I want to know how he gets to that.

• 2:00:30Speaker 03

  Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.

• 2:00:36Dax Shepard?

  This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. If you've thought about trying therapy with our long-term partner, BetterHelp, insurance options may now be available nationwide with an average copay for eligible members of just $23 per session. October 10th is World Mental Health Day, but you don't need a day on the calendar to give yourself permission to talk to someone. I've been in therapy for a long time and the stuff rattling around in my head always just quiets down the second I say it out loud. And it doesn't have to be some big life crisis. Maybe it's a work thing that's taking up too much space or hard relationship moment, or just a feeling that something's off. That's enough. That's worth talking about.

• 2:01:14Speaker 01

  You know, I love. Therapy more than anything gets me through. Often I'll want to cancel because I'm like, I don't really have anything to talk about. And then I'll go and I have some major revelation.

• 2:01:25Dax Shepard?

  You know, I was just talking to a friend who has just started it. And I said, one of the most powerful elements of it is just hearing yourself say out loud, the thing that's been ruminating in your head and how different it sounds. Once it's out into the world, you gain perspective immediately just by hearing yourself say it.

• 2:01:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, you do.

• 2:01:41Dax Shepard?

  If you've been waiting to start therapy, BetterHelp works with more than 125 health plan networks and eligible members have an average copay of just $23 per session with insurance. Don't have insurance or live outside the U.S.? You can still get 10% off your first month. Do yourself a favor and just try it. Future you will be grateful. Visit betterhelp.com/dax to explore your payment options. That's better H E L P dot com slash DAX.

• 2:02:15Dax Shepard?

  Leo, I'm quite interested because what I've been able to gather in my fascination with him is like, he's not a huge acting technique guy. And that between takes, he's like just totally back to normal immediately. And then it's action, he can pop into that. Like, does he think there might just be Matt? Like, what, how can he do what he does? I'm very curious.

• 2:02:38Speaker 01

  Well, I imagine, I mean, he was, he's been doing this for so long at such a high level. Like Gilbert Grape is a

• 2:02:49Dax Shepard?

  Two or the fours.

• 2:02:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, acting job for an adult that would be impossible to pull off. And he did it as a kid. So I think he's, he's probably had a lot of reinforcement that like, I can do it.

• 2:03:00Dax Shepard?

  Yes, and I read an interview around that time. It was when he had done This Boy's Life, the Tobias Wolff book.

• 2:03:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:03:08Dax Shepard?

  And I loved that movie. And I had read that De Niro would get frustrated with him because De Niro needs to be grinding and working and processing. And they'd be between these really heavy scenes and soon as Leo, Leo would be like pulling a prank on somebody. And De Niro was like focused. He thought he needed to teach this kid to focus, but he didn't need to.

• 2:03:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:03:30Dax Shepard?

  Because somehow Leo could just always

• 2:03:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:03:33Dax Shepard?

  Be that.

• 2:03:34Speaker 01

  Probably just, he has trust in himself.

• 2:03:35Dax Shepard?

  I think he might be like a god, like he's an acting god. Like he has, he has a different, or maybe he's got a 47th chromosome or something. There's some mystery there.

• 2:03:47Speaker 01

  That's what I want to know, but I don't think that's gonna, I think we'll, we'd find that out in like

• 2:03:52Dax Shepard?

  We'd run out of

• 2:03:53Speaker 01

  His family. Like, I want to know about his family. That, that's the answer.

• 2:03:58Dax Shepard?

  The thing, well, Leo's different than Tom.

• 2:03:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:04:00Dax Shepard?

  Leo, I do want, because Leo is a punk kid on the Hollywood streets. And that, of course, fascinates me greatly.

• 2:04:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:04:06Dax Shepard?

  He's an unlikely.

• 2:04:08Speaker 01

  He still looks so good. It's so annoying.

• 2:04:10Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. He's a stud.

• 2:04:12Speaker 01

  I know, but like.

• 2:04:14Dax Shepard?

  Enough already?

• 2:04:15Speaker 01

  Well, no, it's like, you know, he only dates these like, young people.

• 2:04:18Dax Shepard?

  You know, people, this is, I mean, I don't know if we dare, there are so many people that are really mad about that. It's generally now, when I hear, when his name is brought up, it's like, it's all, like.

• 2:04:29Speaker 01

  It's always.

• 2:04:30Dax Shepard?

  They've really latched on to that. And I understand it. But then there is also a part of me that like, believes greatly in liberty. So it's like,

• 2:04:37Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 2:04:38Dax Shepard?

  If you, if this 23-year-old girl

• 2:04:40Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:04:41Dax Shepard?

  Is dying to be with him.

• 2:04:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:04:43Dax Shepard?

  And he is dying to be with her, I'm not really seeing the moral conundrum here.

• 2:04:47Speaker 01

  No one's saying.

• 2:04:48Dax Shepard?

  It's not like he's with 17-year-olds.

• 2:04:49Speaker 01

  No one is saying that he shouldn't be allowed. The thing is like, how can you be this age? I mean, we've talked about this about other people, right?

• 2:04:59Dax Shepard?

  Well, I couldn't date a 22-year-old, personally.

• 2:05:02Speaker 01

  Yes. And I think you've said about other people who you know well, like, what it means.

• 2:05:07Dax Shepard?

  But, but can I really quickly put a caveat on that?

• 2:05:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:05:10Dax Shepard?

  My issue there, because yes, I have said between you and I, friends of mine. My issue there is they have a proclaimed goal of having a family. And then their actions don't match that at all. Because they shouldn't start a family with someone who's 22. They should start a family with someone that's around their age and at that point in their life.

• 2:05:31Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:05:31Dax Shepard?

  So my issue with that is like, don't act like you want this and then do the opposite of how you would get there. But it's not a judgment of like. People are hot for each other, man. Like, I don't know how one has an issue with that.

• 2:05:44Speaker 01

  It's not an issue. It's not. Everyone can do whatever they want, but there is a like, the older you get, the more you understand how different younger people are than you, even me. Like, you know.

• 2:05:58Dax Shepard?

  Unless he hasn't matured, like.

• 2:05:59Speaker 01

  But that's the whole thing. That's really what it's kind of saying is like, are you, I mean, he said that, I guess. He said like, I have the emotional maturity of a thirty something.

• 2:06:10Dax Shepard?

  The limited stuff I see in between movies, he is at like nightclubs and stuff.

• 2:06:15Speaker 01

  Is he still?

• 2:06:16Dax Shepard?

  I think so. I'm like, yeah, this guy's like a kid and he like goes and pretends at work and then he gets up and then he acts, yeah, I don't.

• 2:06:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, but all that's, you have like, that's fascinating for people, right?

• 2:06:28Dax Shepard?

  Is it possible, though, that this is what the deep thing's going on? And I'm really afraid to even suggest this, but I do, I'm just gonna ask you what you think.

• 2:06:36Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:06:36Dax Shepard?

  What is deeply unfair in life on this planet is that as men age, their options don't diminish. And as women age, their options diminish.

• 2:06:48Speaker 01

  Oh, I mean, that's.

• 2:06:49Dax Shepard?

  And it's completely unjust and unfair.

• 2:06:51Speaker 01

  Right. That's definitely at play.

• 2:06:52Dax Shepard?

  And so is it possible that for women, when they see him with this young person, what it's really reminding them of is this injustice that they're not allowed to maintain their appeal and attractiveness as they age, yet men are. And as he may be older.

• 2:07:10Speaker 01

  The world doesn't look at women that way. Like.

• 2:07:13Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 2:07:13Speaker 01

  Everyone's aging, you know?

• 2:07:16Dax Shepard?

  Yes. And I'm agreeing. It's like, it's an injustice. It is not fair that men can still play sex symbols in their sixties and they're not, they don't let women do that.

• 2:07:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:07:26Dax Shepard?

  So it's deeply unfair.

• 2:07:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:07:28Dax Shepard?

  I can, I totally agree with that. But are we asking this one person to shoulder the weight of that anger?

• 2:07:36Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 2:07:36Dax Shepard?

  Right? And I also don't know that I agree with that. And I think of the 24 year old super hot for Leo, which I believe she is.

• 2:07:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, I believe she is. I'm not, he's not coercing anyone. That's not, and I don't, no one thinks that.

• 2:07:49Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 2:07:50Speaker 01

  But I, I think two things are happening. One, yes, I'm sure that's at play. There's like, but I do think, and not for everyone, but I do think for a lot of people, when they hear that, they're like, oh, man. Like, there's a little bit of like, oh, he's not a serious person. Like, I hate, that's like a mean thing to say, and I don't know that it's true, but like, yes. How old is he?

• 2:08:13Dax Shepard?

  My age, he's 50.

• 2:08:14Speaker 01

  He's 50. Okay, so if he's 50 and he's only dating 25 and younger, there's a sense of like, oh, my idea of him is not what he is.

• 2:08:28Dax Shepard?

  He's not what you want him to be?

• 2:08:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. There's like disappointment. That's not on him.

• 2:08:32Dax Shepard?

  It's not.

• 2:08:33Speaker 01

  He's living his own life.

• 2:08:34Dax Shepard?

  And where I think people have a business in complaining or judging is in movies when they, like, when you watch movies from the 80s and 90s, I mean, it's just laughable now that we're aware of it. It's like every single, like Harrison Ford in every movie is with someone 25 years younger. Like, he's married to some. So, yes, there's this crazy history of the 80s and 90s and early 2000s where it's like, almost it's a given that the 55 year old male actor is gonna have a wife who's 30.

• 2:09:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:09:06Dax Shepard?

  Every one of the movies.

• 2:09:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:09:08Dax Shepard?

  And so that to me is a very legitimate complaint. It's like, this is the workplace. This is these people's chosen profession. The, the older actors are suffering because you will refuse to cast people of the same age.

• 2:09:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:09:21Dax Shepard?

  There is a workplace injustice in that.

• 2:09:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:09:24Dax Shepard?

  And I think that's worth being really rubbed up about.

• 2:09:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:09:28Dax Shepard?

  But I think for people in their own life, again, I'd be embarrassed, but that's, that's me.

• 2:09:34Speaker 01

  That's personal decisions.

• 2:09:35Dax Shepard?

  How I choose to live my life. I would feel silly showing up at a red carpet with a 19 year old.

• 2:09:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:09:40Dax Shepard?

  Personally.

• 2:09:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, and that's what people are feeling.

• 2:09:42Dax Shepard?

  Cause my image of myself that's incompatible with.

• 2:09:46Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:09:46Dax Shepard?

  But if someone else, if everyone's honky dory in the situation.

• 2:09:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, if everyone's consenting, again, I don't think, I don't think, like, he needs to go to jail for this. It's just like, ugh, like, it's just something that I think people. Feel that they can call out and make fun of because it's a bit, it's a pattern and it feels interesting to people and telling, I guess. Like, I think it's, people are just like, oh, that's telling.

• 2:10:11Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:10:12Speaker 01

  Um, I would love to go on a date with him.

• 2:10:15Dax Shepard?

  See, that's kind of my point. There's a lot of the people I hear that are upset. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But trust me, if you and I were talking when you were 24, you'd be like, I'll go on a date with him.

• 2:10:24Speaker 01

  Me, oh, oh, yeah. No, I know. Yeah.

• 2:10:27Dax Shepard?

  But so it's interesting. When I, when I hear a lot of people that are like really judgmental of him.

• 2:10:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:10:32Dax Shepard?

  I'm like, also bullshit, you'd go on a date with him too. And most young people would.

• 2:10:37Speaker 01

  Again, though, they're not judging the, the, the daughter. I almost said, which by the way, his daughter in this movie, I think is like 25. So there's, yeah. Here's the other thing, and I don't know, and we, and we don't need to try to find out, but like, I haven't heard that any of these women feel used.

• 2:10:59Dax Shepard?

  No, he doesn't have a, like, a gaggle of people that feel scorned by him. They all seem to be pretty.

• 2:11:06Speaker 01

  That's telling too. Like, it doesn't, again, it's, it doesn't seem like he just wants them necessarily as arm candy. I don't know what's going on with them, but that's why he has to come on and tell us. And I don't care about the movies. I want to know what is going on. And also, does he want to date me? I look quite young. So maybe this is the best of both worlds. Cause I am appropriate age, but I'm an appropriate age. Um, and I have like a year left to give him children if he would like that.

• 2:11:44Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 2:11:45Speaker 01

  And I look.

• 2:11:45Dax Shepard?

  That's the other thing is like, it seems to me he doesn't want that.

• 2:11:48Speaker 01

  I don't think he wants it.

• 2:11:48Dax Shepard?

  It's like, who cares?

• 2:11:49Speaker 01

  Oh, no, he doesn't have to want that. But it is just like, what do they talk about? Like this, she's on, he doesn't know about these. They're not living in the same.

• 2:11:58Dax Shepard?

  I just think people are more wound up about it than, than they should be. That's my kind of take. I like, cause I'll talk to people, like I was somewhere this summer and this, this older guy, he's like. You see Leo's new girlfriend? And I'm like, no. I mean, this guy, and I'm like, why could you possibly care?

• 2:12:17Speaker 01

  Of course, everyone's projecting. So yeah, women have their own projections, but men have their own projections too. Because if they can't, they're like, I can't date someone like that.

• 2:12:26Dax Shepard?

  A, I can't have that, and so he shouldn't.

• 2:12:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:12:28Dax Shepard?

  Two, I have a daughter. I would be disgusted if my daughter was with this old man, or that this old man was with my daughter. Grant your daughter her autonomy. Like, if one of my kids is hot for a dude that's older, that's none of my fucking business. They get to be, they get to be attracted to whatever they want.

• 2:12:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, but you might be like.

• 2:12:49Dax Shepard?

  My only fear would be like, hon, if you guys go the distance at 30 years old, you're gonna be, you're gonna be walking him through hospice.

• 2:12:57Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:12:58Dax Shepard?

  And then you're gonna be at this age when you're re-entering life. That, that would be the only thing I would want you to acknowledge is, is the unavoidable end to this. That part would concern me.

• 2:13:09Speaker 01

  I think you also might be concerned if you're, if like she feels, you know, she's in love with him. And you are like, maybe, I don't know if that person is like, type of person who's gonna.

• 2:13:24Dax Shepard?

  If we look at their pattern.

• 2:13:25Speaker 01

  Let's look at the pattern, like, you're all in.

• 2:13:28Dax Shepard?

  Or you might be given your dismissal papers.

• 2:13:33Speaker 01

  Yes, and that.

• 2:13:35Dax Shepard?

  As long as you go into it with, with full awareness.

• 2:13:38Speaker 01

  Right, but I think as a dad, that's hard to watch. Your, your kid like be in love with someone that you know.

• 2:13:44Dax Shepard?

  There.

• 2:13:45Speaker 01

  They're you.

• 2:13:46Dax Shepard?

  Yes, maybe hard to watch, but I, I, I just know better. I know that I would have never listened to my parents tell me who I should or shouldn't be attracted to or date. Yeah. So knowing that I would have never, I would never waste a minute of my time.

• 2:14:00Speaker 01

  Well, I'm not saying you should waste, but I, I don't think we can discount that you might have feelings around it. And I think that's okay. Okay, we're gonna wrap it up, because I gotta go. But also, oh, I think on this episode, I'd love to end it. I wanna play a clip, the trailer of Beth's Dead.

• 2:14:15Dax Shepard?

  Oh, yes. Great. Great.

• 2:14:16Speaker 01

  Beth's Dead is the podcast I talked about last week, I think, or a couple of weeks ago, with Elizabeth and Andy from Nobody's Listening, right?

• 2:14:23Dax Shepard?

  You've worked so, so hard on it, all of you.

• 2:14:24Speaker 01

  Worked so hard. It's a very special project and it's true crimey and it's Nancy Drew. And it's really fun. And it's 10 episodes and not to make this complicated, but they're going to be available all on Patreon for people to binge if they want. It's a very bingey show.

• 2:14:42Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:14:43Speaker 01

  And that's $6 if you want to do that.

• 2:14:46Dax Shepard?

  Very reasonable.

• 2:14:46Speaker 01

  Very reasonable. And also there'll be extra stuff. We'll do Q and As. We'll do other stuff and that'll be really fun. But also, if you don't want to, it will all be out. It'll start coming out the 30th weekly.

• 2:14:57Dax Shepard?

  Okay, great.

• 2:14:57Speaker 01

  So if you want to wait for that for free, you can do that too. But I recommend the binge. I'm just gonna say.

• 2:15:02Dax Shepard?

  For $0.60 an episode, fucking go crazy.

• 2:15:04Speaker 01

  I'm just gonna say.

• 2:15:04Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:15:05Speaker 01

  Uh, but yeah, here's the trailer.

• 2:15:07Dax Shepard?

  Okay, great. I'm excited.

• 2:15:08Speaker 01

  I'm really excited because we have Elizabeth and Andy from my favorite podcast, Nobody's Listening, right? I have you guys here because you took something away from me.

• 2:15:22Speaker 01

  And I never knew why you guys went off the air.

• 2:15:31Speaker 05

  Elizabeth, I wish I could give you a hug so bad right now.

• 2:15:35Speaker 06

  My husband told me that you, Elizabeth, were one of the biggest.

• 2:15:38Speaker 05

  Elizabeth, I'm surprised I've not heard from you about this development. This makes me worried for you.

• 2:15:41Speaker 01

  Hello, Worthless. 1K is absolutely.

• 2:15:42Speaker 05

  This makes me worry for you. Are you all right?

• 2:15:47Speaker 06

  Andy didn't realize at the time I was also responding to all these people who would write in with questions.

• 2:15:54Speaker 01

  Oh, my God. The subject of the email is, "You may recognize my vagina."

• 2:16:03Speaker 07

  I went through my notes this morning and I was getting teary eyed how upsetting it was.

• 2:16:12Speaker 06

  So I got this email. This is Beth's brother. "Just after 4:00 a.m., my amazing sister Beth passed away. We are all completely devastated."

• 2:16:23Speaker 06

  I think by this point, I was like, this feels dangerous. I probably wished I hadn't gotten involved beyond just the podcast, but I had already committed myself.

• 2:16:35Dax Shepard?

  Revisiting this has made me uneasy. And then I'm like, if I'm gonna find out a bunch of bad shit, is it gonna make me feel more unease?

• 2:16:43Speaker 01

  I can't really get it out of my head that I think we need to attempt to make contact. Okay, what a burp.

• 2:16:57Speaker 01

  Okay, deep breath, deep breath.

• 2:17:11Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:17:12Dax Shepard?

  First time I've ever received an amends in an interview.

• 2:17:15Speaker 01

  I know, that was very sweet.

• 2:17:17Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:17:17Speaker 01

  It was really funny, per usual. I had an idea, had an idea of what it was gonna be. And I was honestly, I hate like this, I was kind of scared of him. Like, I even was like, oh, maybe I won't walk in early. Like, I'll wait.

• 2:17:35Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:17:37Speaker 01

  Cause he was here early and I got here early and I was like, eh, maybe I'll just wait till Dax goes in. But then I was like, no, it's fine. And then as soon as I walked in, he introduced himself to me and it was so, he was so warm and nice.

• 2:17:49Dax Shepard?

  And sweet, he just like reeks sweetness.

• 2:17:51Speaker 01

  Yeah. And, and I said, I'm Monica, I'm the co-host. He said, I know. And I was like, oh, you did your research. He was like, well, I read the thing they sent me. And I was like, oh, great. So, um, yeah, I was, I was, it was not what I expected. And he was so, so lovely and sweet. And I really enjoyed it a lot.

• 2:18:13Dax Shepard?

  And we could have done 15 hours with him.

• 2:18:15Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:18:16Dax Shepard?

  I mean, as you'll see when you watch the doc, you got like 1% of the stories.

• 2:18:21Speaker 01

  Yeah. Okay, couple facts, not very many, but a couple.

• 2:18:24Dax Shepard?

  Really quick, I was hiking with Anafrio and he had watched it.

• 2:18:27Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 2:18:28Dax Shepard?

  And I said, you know, it's hard to give someone this crown in the history of show business. I don't think anyone's ever gone harder.

• 2:18:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:18:35Dax Shepard?

  I mean, what an accomplishment in its own right.

• 2:18:38Speaker 01

  I mean, I-

• 2:18:39Dax Shepard?

  Given, given the competition.

• 2:18:41Speaker 01

  Right. I'm shocked. I mean, I'm so, I'm so happy that he's-

• 2:18:47Dax Shepard?

  With us.

• 2:18:48Speaker 01

  Made it through. Yeah, it's really harrowing. Um, okay. He said, if you get hypnotized, you can't be used as a witness in a case.

• 2:18:57Dax Shepard?

  Oh, yeah. That's what he thought.

• 2:18:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's what he thought. And so we, I checked. It says, no, being hypnotized does not automatically disqualify someone from being a witness in court, but the fact of the hypnosis can affect the witness's credibility and the admissibility of the hypnotically referent- hypnotically refreshed testimony, which is often viewed as inherently unreliable. Okay, so it is a little tricky.

• 2:19:22Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, it could be, it could render his testimony useless.

• 2:19:25Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 2:19:26Dax Shepard?

  Which is really interesting. Did you happen to read the New York Times article this weekend about, um, this person who wrote a book who had memories that they uncovered during MDMA-

• 2:19:36Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 2:19:37Dax Shepard?

  Therapy?

• 2:19:38Speaker 01

  No.

• 2:19:39Dax Shepard?

  Very fascinating article. Yeah.

• 2:19:41Speaker 01

  Well, that goes against what we've heard about repressed memories.

• 2:19:46Dax Shepard?

  That's, yeah. Yeah. I'll send you the article.

• 2:19:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, I want to read it. Now, what is the correct way of typing called? Touch typing?

• 2:19:55Dax Shepard?

  Oh, it's not what I was thinking.

• 2:19:57Speaker 01

  Technique of typing without looking at the keyboard by relying on muscle memory to locate the keys. This method involves using all 10 fingers and resting them on the home row keys.

• 2:20:06Dax Shepard?

  Thank you, home row keys.

• 2:20:07Speaker 01

  ASDF for the left hand and JKL for the right hand.

• 2:20:11Dax Shepard?

  JKL, Jimmy Kimmel Live.

• 2:20:13Speaker 01

  Oh, my God. Wow. There was a statement said that Nick Cage does more movies than anyone alive. Obviously, that's an exaggeration, but I did. Then I got curious, who is credited with the most? And it's Eric Roberts.

• 2:20:27Dax Shepard?

  Oh, wow. Julia Roberts' brother.

• 2:20:29Speaker 01

  Eric Roberts is often cited as the American actor with the most film credits.

• 2:20:34Dax Shepard?

  I can do an impersonation of him, but I have to block myself from you.

• 2:20:38Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:20:38Dax Shepard?

  They took my fucking thumbs, Johnny.

• 2:20:42Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 2:20:43Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, that's a pretty good Eric Roberts.

• 2:20:45Speaker 01

  Okay, wow.

• 2:20:46Dax Shepard?

  In the Popeye Greenwich Village.

• 2:20:47Speaker 01

  Oh my. He has over 450 film credits. And 191 TV credits.

• 2:20:53Dax Shepard?

  Wow.

• 2:20:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:20:54Dax Shepard?

  Busy, busy, busy.

• 2:20:56Speaker 01

  Busy B.

• 2:20:56Dax Shepard?

  Think of what his residual statement looks like.

• 2:20:58Speaker 01

  Yeah. By the way, this is American actors. Congrats, Eric Roberts.

• 2:21:02Dax Shepard?

  Do we know how many Nick has been in? He's never done TV, to my knowledge. It would only be films.

• 2:21:08Speaker 01

  How many credits does Nick Cage have? 116 or more. That's not helpful.

• 2:21:16Dax Shepard?

  Okay. Yeah, I got at least 119. That's a lot.

• 2:21:21Speaker 01

  It's a lot.

• 2:21:21Dax Shepard?

  And mostly, I think only starring roles. It's not like...

• 2:21:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, probably.

• 2:21:25Dax Shepard?

  Like, mine's more than it should be, because I'm like guessing once in a while here and there. I come into a movie and say one line, because it's friend. You know, it's not real.

• 2:21:34Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, it's real, but it's...

• 2:21:36Dax Shepard?

  Just not a...

• 2:21:38Speaker 01

  It's not the same.

• 2:21:38Dax Shepard?

  Not 116 lead roles.

• 2:21:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's pretty wild. And that's it.

• 2:21:44Dax Shepard?

  Okay, love you.

• 2:21:45Speaker 01

  Love you.