Jason Mantzoukas and Mallory Rubin on ‘Shoresy’ Season 5. Plus, ‘A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms’ S2 Casting News, and a ‘Game of Thrones’ Film.

Chris is joined by Jason Mantzoukas and Mallory Rubin to talk about the Season 2 casting news for ‘A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms’ (2:25) and that ‘Andor’ writer Beau Willimon is taking on a ‘Game of Thrones’ movie (8:46). Then, they discuss the fifth season of ‘Shoresy’ and what makes the show so special (22:01). Drivers wanted. Learn more athttp://vw.com Subscribe to the Ringer TV YouTube channel here for full episodes of The Watch and so much more! Host: Chris Ryan Guest: Jason Mantzoukas and Mallory Rubin Producers: Kaya McMullen and Kai Grady Additional Video Supervision: Jacob Cornett Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  I'm pro-football Hall of Famer Brian Dawkins, and I lived for a long time with something I did not know the name of: major depressive disorder. I carried sadness and anger because I thought I could handle it alone, but I couldn't. Now I want to make sure others know that that support is out there. If you're experiencing similar symptoms, talk to a healthcare professional. Visit MDDAllies.com to watch my story.

• 0:25Speaker 01

  Paid partnership with Johnson & Johnson. Brian Dawkins has not prescribed Caplyta lumateperone.

• 0:37Speaker 02

  I needed more from my antidepressant, so my doctor added Caplyta lumateperone, proven to provide greater relief from depression symptoms than an antidepressant alone, building on my progress without starting over. Caplyta is for adults with major depressive disorder when used with an antidepressant and is available by prescription only. Individual results may vary. In clinical trials, weight gain was not common.

• 0:57Speaker 01

  Elderly dementia patients have increased risk of death or stroke. Caplyta is not approved for dementia-related psychosis. Call your doctor about new or sudden mood changes, behaviors, or suicidal thoughts right away. Antidepressants may increase these risks. Report fever, confusion, stiff muscles, which may be life-threatening, or uncontrolled muscle movements, which may be permanent. High cholesterol and weight gain may occur, as can high blood sugar, which may be fatal. Monitoring is recommended. Common side effects are sleepiness, dizziness, nausea, dry mouth, feeling tired, and diarrhea. These aren't all the side effects.

• 1:24Speaker 02

  Ask your doctor about Caplyta. Learn more at caplyta.com or call 888-252-4824.

• 1:31Speaker 03

  FanDuel is now available everywhere in the U.S.

• 1:39Speaker 03

  So you can get in on the sports action no matter where you are, including these places.

• 1:48Speaker 03

  Make this your most rewarding season ever with FanDuel. Age and location restrictions apply. Product availability varies by market. See FanDuel.com for eligibility. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER.

• 2:06Speaker 04

  I need sports staff to clear the room. Stand up and walk now.

• 2:11Chris Ryan?

  Hello and welcome to The Watch. My name is Chris Ryan. I am an editor at theringer.com and joining me in a new studio after receiving what could only be described as a monsoon of laffies, it's Mallory Rubin and our special guest, one of the great watchers of Tryon halls, Jason Mantzoukas.

• 2:32Speaker 01

  Let's go!

• 2:34Chris Ryan?

  Come on!

• 2:35Speaker 01

  Fucking go! From our text chain-

• 2:38Chris Ryan?

  Settle down.

• 2:38Speaker 01

  To the studio. Settle down, everyone.

• 2:40Speaker 06

  Settle down. Give your balls a tug.

• 2:42Chris Ryan?

  We are here to talk about the fifth season of Shoresy, as promised.

• 2:45Speaker 01

  You're doing a great job setting the tone, CR.

• 2:47Chris Ryan?

  Thank you, brother.

• 2:48Speaker 06

  You gotta set the tone.

• 2:49Speaker 01

  You gotta set the tone.

• 2:50Speaker 06

  I texted you guys last night, "Give your balls a tug." Neither of you replied.

• 2:54Speaker 01

  No, I did. No, I did. I did, which I felt like as commanded.

• 2:59Chris Ryan?

  It didn't seem like appropriate to be like, "I've completed the cast."

• 3:02Speaker 01

  How did she know they were so cramped up in there?

• 3:04Chris Ryan?

  Uh, Jason Mantzoukas and I, we did Shoresy season four.

• 3:07Speaker 06

  I remember. Yeah, and I stood outside of the studio-

• 3:11Speaker 01

  Oh, heartbreaking.

• 3:12Speaker 06

  And waited for you two to emerge to tell you that I have genuinely never in my life felt so betrayed by two people I considered dear, dear friends.

• 3:22Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, so Mall likes Shoresy too and I didn't want a workplace complaint against me.

• 3:27Speaker 01

  But you kept saying, "This one's just for the boys."

• 3:30Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 3:31Speaker 06

  I thought- The boys or the boys?

• 3:33Speaker 01

  The boys.

• 3:34Chris Ryan?

  Um, but no, I would never do season, another season of Shoresy, I will never do without you.

• 3:39Speaker 06

  Sure, yeah.

• 3:40Chris Ryan?

  Uh, you love this more purely than almost anything in your life, I think.

• 3:44Speaker 06

  I do like this show a lot.

• 3:45Speaker 01

  Oh, obsessed. Obsessed with this show. I'm, I, and some, one of the nerds that loves this show will figure out is, I recommended this show on The Watch-

• 3:54Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 3:55Speaker 01

  At least a year before I think you even started watching.

• 3:57Chris Ryan?

  Absolutely. I was just like, you're like Letter Kenny and I was like, "Yeah, but like, that's kinda dull sometimes."

• 4:02Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 4:02Chris Ryan?

  Uh, this is one of my favorite shows. It's been in my top 10 the last two years.

• 4:07Speaker 01

  Love it.

• 4:07Chris Ryan?

  I think it probably will be again this year.

• 4:09Speaker 06

  No question.

• 4:09Speaker 01

  Oh, easily.

• 4:10Chris Ryan?

  We're gonna get to Shoresy. We're gonna probably talk a little bit of heater rivalry because of the extended-

• 4:14Speaker 06

  Ooh, exciting.

• 4:15Chris Ryan?

  Uh, Canadian hockey TV pipeline and the Jacob Tierney connection that-

• 4:19Speaker 06

  Sure.

• 4:20Chris Ryan?

  No longer really exists with Shoresy, but I think it's important to talk about. And we'll talk about some other stuff, obviously. To start with, I wanted to, since I have two of the biggest Game of Thrones fans- In my life, I think.

• 4:31Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 4:31Chris Ryan?

  Chat a little bit about some developments in Westeros?

• 4:34Speaker 01

  Let's go.

• 4:34Speaker 06

  Do it.

• 4:35Chris Ryan?

  Number one is that-

• 4:36Speaker 01

  Let's take a trip.

• 4:37Chris Ryan?

  Just TV is being TV and they're shooting Night of the Seven Kingdoms. I think they are in production. And Night of the Seven Kingdoms casting is Lucy Boynton, who people might remember from Sing Street. Horrorheads might remember from Black Coat's daughter.

• 4:50Speaker 01

  Okay, I think everybody remembers that.

• 4:52Speaker 06

  Not familiar.

• 4:53Chris Ryan?

  She is playing Lady Rohan.

• 4:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, I like it.

• 4:56Speaker 06

  One of the main characters in season two.

• 4:58Chris Ryan?

  One of the most exciting developments, Babu Sisay from Alien Earth.

• 5:02Speaker 06

  Freaked out when I saw this.

• 5:02Speaker 01

  Awesome.

• 5:03Speaker 06

  Morrow.

• 5:03Chris Ryan?

  Is playing Sir Benis.

• 5:05Speaker 06

  Benis of the Brown Shield, Benis the Brown. A truly deranged character. I can't wait.

• 5:10Speaker 01

  A wild character.

• 5:12Chris Ryan?

  Peter Mullen.

• 5:12Speaker 01

  See, Art, wait a minute. Have you, because of Talk the Thrones, because of House of R, I did something that I've never done before, which was I read Game of Thrones books.

• 5:27Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 5:27Speaker 01

  And so, and when I say I've read them, I mean, I listened to the audio books.

• 5:33Speaker 06

  It's a wonderful audiobook experience.

• 5:34Speaker 01

  For these novellas, and they are incredible. And all three books are a sum total of nine hours long.

• 5:41Speaker 06

  I've tried to convince him that you could do it in a day.

• 5:44Speaker 01

  And it is so great, I cannot recommend it enough.

• 5:46Chris Ryan?

  I don't doubt that I would love it. Here's my thing. If I become a guy who also reads books, then what's the angle I bring to Talk the Thrones?

• 5:55Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 5:56Speaker 06

  What's the angle you bring now to Talk the Thrones? You're a beautiful, shining personality. Your spirit and your essence, is reading a novella gonna sap the world?

• 6:05Chris Ryan?

  But I am a guy who goes, I haven't read the book, so explain to me what this means.

• 6:10Speaker 01

  So you want, you're trying to maintain your posi-

• 6:13Speaker 06

  This is such a bullshit excuse. This is embarrassing.

• 6:16Speaker 01

  Ignorance is my bit.

• 6:18Chris Ryan?

  This would be like if Pete Hegseth stopped doing pushups.

• 6:21Speaker 01

  Okay, okay. This is like, I've only been here 15 minutes, this is the third time you've compared yourself to Hegseth.

• 6:29Speaker 06

  Well, got news for you. I've been with them all day. The tally is higher.

• 6:33Speaker 01

  You also said you don't podcast with fatties, which I thought was super weird and gross.

• 6:40Chris Ryan?

  The last cast member of Night of the Seven Kingdoms, season two, is Peter Mullen, who people may remember as being a fucking scumbag on Ozark.

• 6:49Speaker 01

  And one of the great actors of our time.

• 6:52Chris Ryan?

  A great character actor, yeah.

• 6:53Speaker 01

  An absolute monster of an actor that is like just sneaking through the world, just giving unreal performance after unreal performance.

• 7:02Chris Ryan?

  Did you ever see him on the streets of London when you were doing Taskmaster?

• 7:04Speaker 01

  When I was doing Taskmaster, I remember just walking the streets of London and being like, "Hey, Petey Mullen."

• 7:10Chris Ryan?

  It's Trudy Tench.

• 7:11Speaker 01

  "Hey, DJ D, what's up?"

• 7:15Chris Ryan?

  So, excitement abounds. And how does it feel as a longtime Thrones chronicler to be right back in it where you're like, "Okay, the ball's, the boulder's going downhill. We're gonna get this next year."

• 7:29Speaker 06

  I mean, it's the thrill of a lifetime, not only to have a good show, but to have it in our lives consistently. Like, I'm higher on House of the Dragon than many are, as we've discussed.

• 7:39Chris Ryan?

  I think so.

• 7:41Speaker 06

  But having to wait, you know, multiple years between seasons is painful. So, it's great to know that we're gonna get Night of the Seven Kingdoms every year and that there's a continuity of character, Dunk and Egg. We have this like wonderful investment after six episodes now in that relationship. And then we get to meet new people because we're in a new place. And the ideas of the novellas that they're like, "Where are these guys at this moment in time? And what is this story and this adventure? Who is gonna move into the show and into their lives as a result?" To get to do that every winter or spring, or whatever the calendar ends up being, is like an absolute delight.

• 8:15Speaker 01

  One of the things that I think is so difficult, and I feel like both of you talk about on your shows, is this collision of prestige TV, high-end, elevated television, these shows that are hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars to produce and take a year to make and huge, just like the ambition is off the charts. The shows are huge. And then we also talk about, or you talk about, and I've talked about as well, just, boy, isn't it fun to have TV?

• 8:45Chris Ryan?

  Sure.

• 8:45Speaker 01

  The pit, things that feel like TV.

• 8:48Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 8:48Speaker 01

  And now I feel like A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms, or something like Slow Horses, is threading the needle.

• 8:54Speaker 06

  My favorite.

• 8:54Speaker 01

  Slow Horses is, you are doing an incredible show that has scale and scope, fantastic performances, but it comes out every 10 months.

• 9:03Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 9:03Speaker 01

  A new season, boom. And if they can, knowing the novellas, as I now do, as a well-read Westerosi.

• 9:11Chris Ryan?

  An audiobook subscriber, yeah.

• 9:13Speaker 01

  Oh, yes, with an Audible account, don't worry about it. Or, you know what, a Spotify account, if you will.

• 9:18Speaker 06

  This is a Spotify podcast?

• 9:20Chris Ryan?

  I like testing the limits a little bit.

• 9:23Speaker 01

  I bet they bleeped.

• 9:24Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 9:24Speaker 01

  I bet the whole time is just bleeped off if I say [BLEEP]. Uh, or [BLEEP] or [BLEEP]. Spotify doesn't want the libraries to get the subscribers. So I think.

• 9:36Chris Ryan?

  Burning library cards.

• 9:38Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. Oh, I think Spotify put all the libraries out of business.

• 9:41Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 9:43Speaker 01

  Pretty much, right?

• 9:43Chris Ryan?

  Were they really ever in business?

• 9:45Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, for-profit libraries.

• 9:47Chris Ryan?

  It was just like late fees? That's a good idea, though, dude.

• 9:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:51Chris Ryan?

  Should we get into that?

• 9:52Speaker 01

  For-profit libraries.

• 9:54Speaker 06

  We can call it a bookstore.

• 9:56Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, but like, you can't, you have to bring it back, though.

• 9:58Speaker 06

  What do you think?

• 9:59Chris Ryan?

  You have to bring the book back. We charge you $13.

• 10:02Speaker 06

  Okay.

• 10:02Chris Ryan?

  But you still have to bring the book back.

• 10:03Speaker 06

  What are you paying for?

• 10:04Speaker 01

  It's a book rental.

• 10:05Chris Ryan?

  It's like Blockbuster for books.

• 10:06Speaker 06

  It's Hollywood Video or Blockbuster. Are you paying for early access? You get to cut the line? Are you paying for a recommendation? C R's picks?

• 10:14Speaker 01

  I love curation. That's great.

• 10:16Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. I would rather be the old-school version, because you know, like, the librarian, it would just be like, you call and you'd be like, what's the weather tomorrow? And they'd have to answer, right?

• 10:25Speaker 01

  Remember when you used to call the weather? Did you guys used to call the weather?

• 10:29Chris Ryan?

  People would call the newspaper to get the weather.

• 10:31Speaker 01

  Oh, interesting.

• 10:31Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 10:33Speaker 06

  We're really old.

• 10:34Chris Ryan?

  I'm older than you, so you probably don't remember that.

• 10:36Speaker 01

  Oh, and I'm older than both of you by a bunch.

• 10:37Speaker 06

  But I am older in spirit, and I would say probably if you did some testing, also body. Than both of you.

• 10:43Speaker 01

  Oh, please. My body is in active collapse.

• 10:47Chris Ryan?

  Jason, you mentioned the TV-ification of Game of Thrones. I thought this was really interesting, that this week. Among everything else that's happening in Hollywood with Paramount and Warner Brothers, and Andy and I are gonna talk about this-

• 10:58Speaker 01

  Wait, what's going on with Paramount and Warner Brothers?

• 10:59Chris Ryan?

  They, uh, they bought each other.

• 11:01Speaker 01

  Uh-oh.

• 11:02Chris Ryan?

  And me and Andy will probably get more into that on Monday. But, it came out, and I believe Variety first, but widely reported, that Bo Williman has a script for a Game of Thrones movie-

• 11:13Speaker 06

  Yep.

• 11:13Chris Ryan?

  That, I dunno, they're moving forward on, that it's, the draft is in. This has been reportedly, it centers on Aegon's conquest?

• 11:22Speaker 06

  So, we've been hearing for some time that the Aegon's conquest story that was in development could end up being a movie, right?

• 11:29Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 11:31Speaker 06

  I pitched this to Joe in real time yesterday on House of R, on our Mailbag episode. I dunno if there's enough opportunity, enough of a window here, to change what this movie's about. I think Aegon's conquest as a movie at some point in time would be great.

• 11:43Chris Ryan?

  Do you mean within the confines of this podcast?

• 11:45Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 11:45Chris Ryan?

  Or like, you could get Casey on the phone and be like, okay?

• 11:47Speaker 06

  Both. Casey listens to the watch, Casey if you're listening.

• 11:49Chris Ryan?

  He only listens to Andy, yeah.

• 11:51Speaker 06

  Can we call Andy? Can we get him in? He doesn't want Shoresy.

• 11:54Speaker 01

  He's a huge Shoresy.

• 11:55Speaker 06

  He's not here today. Uh, I think that this movie should be a Blackfire Rebellion movie, a first Blackfire Rebellion movie, so that we stay in continuity in the timeline. And then it's also like, clarifying, why is this a movie? Why is this a show? Because we're in A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms, in this stretch of the canon as a television show, we're glimpsing, oh, we were at the red grass field, we're hearing people say Blackfire Pretender, give us, in real time in our lives, a movie about this key event at this stretch of the canon.

• 12:24Speaker 01

  Do you think, though, my question would be, are they doing the math and saying, a movie at this scale-

• 12:31Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 12:32Speaker 01

  Is four years away from being released?

• 12:35Speaker 06

  Probably.

• 12:35Speaker 01

  We will have done all the Dunkin' Egg stories-

• 12:39Speaker 06

  Well, they're gonna be doing Dunkin' Egg for 15 years, but they will be finished doing House of the Dragon by then. So that, that does alleviate a little bit of the, we have Game of Thrones here, we have House of the Dragon here, we have A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms here, we have Aegon's conquest here. That's, I think, disorienting to ask people to track that many points of Targaryen history simultaneously. I do think Aegon's conquest would be a great movie, and better probably as a movie than a show.

• 13:00Chris Ryan?

  The reason why I just raised an eyebrow when I saw this story come out was, obviously, a lot of panic going on about what this merger means for jobs in Hollywood, etc., and like, the content pipeline. But I think also there's like, some sweat- Like some well-earned sweat going on about like what happens to some of the franchises, some of the IP that belonged to Warner Brothers and them being transferred over to Paramount. And this to me was like, be cool. It's still, it's still in the works and like, maybe this will be like a big thing that, you know, Skydance Paramount throws itself behind. I personally, as somebody who's just a glass half-full guy.

• 13:38Speaker 06

  Always, yeah.

• 13:39Chris Ryan?

  Taylor Sheridan, George R.R. Martin shared universe, Westeros Sacario.

• 13:42Speaker 01

  Let's go.

• 13:43Chris Ryan?

  Fucking, let's get.

• 13:45Speaker 06

  You have my attention, sir.

• 13:46Chris Ryan?

  Jeffrey Donovan from Sacario.

• 13:47Speaker 01

  Done.

• 13:48Chris Ryan?

  Tac vests and big glasses.

• 13:50Speaker 01

  This sounds, I would love for these things to just start collapsing into each other. That was my favorite, uh, my favorite never made, but intended to be made sequel, which was,

• 14:03Speaker 01

  which was 24 Jump Street Men in Black Four.

• 14:06Chris Ryan?

  Yes, right.

• 14:07Speaker 01

  Which was that those two things would collide with each other.

• 14:10Chris Ryan?

  Scripts that got to like, all the way up to like the main, the last desk it needed to clear and they were like, no.

• 14:16Speaker 01

  What are we doing?

• 14:17Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 14:17Speaker 01

  But I love, I love that conceptually.

• 14:19Speaker 06

  This is great.

• 14:20Speaker 01

  But it really is like, you know, these are worlds that I'm genuinely like, what is about to happen? Inside of Harry Potter, inside of this, inside, yeah.

• 14:30Speaker 06

  Episode trailer.

• 14:31Speaker 01

  You're talking about in regards to this specific merger.

• 14:33Chris Ryan?

  Sure.

• 14:34Speaker 01

  But I think that is, like, we're having that conversation in terms of what's going on with Star Wars. What does Star Wars look like right now? You know, Mandalorian and Grogu trailer question mark.

• 14:45Speaker 06

  Refuses to engage.

• 14:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:46Speaker 06

  He has said, and he has been pushed and has refused to budge. He's not gonna see the movie.

• 14:50Chris Ryan?

  Sorry for having.

• 14:51Speaker 01

  Not gonna see the movie?

• 14:52Speaker 06

  Which I think is.

• 14:53Speaker 01

  Now that's interesting.

• 14:53Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, it's just principles.

• 14:55Speaker 06

  Principles.

• 14:55Speaker 01

  Principles, and what are those principles?

• 14:57Speaker 06

  Walk us through it.

• 14:58Speaker 01

  What do you stand for?

• 14:59Chris Ryan?

  A principle is when you're like, I'm not gonna go watch.

• 15:02Speaker 06

  Right.

• 15:03Chris Ryan?

  This volume.

• 15:04Speaker 06

  This is good. He's not telling us what his principles are. He's just telling us what a principle is conceptually.

• 15:09Chris Ryan?

  Well, here's what I thought about. I thought about tripling down and being like, no more Star Wars after Andor. It's, it's over, it's done.

• 15:15Speaker 01

  By the way.

• 15:16Speaker 06

  This is, this is toxic. I don't like this at all.

• 15:18Speaker 01

  It's toxic, but I will agree in the sense that.

• 15:21Chris Ryan?

  How's it toxic?

• 15:22Speaker 01

  In a world in which CRU have continued. Well, no, actually, you've you've let up a little bit on one of your other principles, which was no animation.

• 15:30Chris Ryan?

  Yes, I I've softened.

• 15:31Speaker 01

  You have softened for animation some, and I will say Star Wars animation is without a doubt.

• 15:37Speaker 06

  Wonderful.

• 15:37Speaker 01

  The best with and or accepted some of the best Star Wars of the last 25 years is in animation form, full stop. You know, and I'm I'm I worry about the next round of stuff as much as everybody. I'm also lamenting the loss of the Damon Lindelof, Lakeith Stansfield starring Jedi story. That's like, where is that? Give me that, you know? And so like all of these worlds that we love, boy, am I nervous about what's about to happen to all of them.

• 16:07Chris Ryan?

  There's also this funny thing that's happening, and I imagine you must feel this because you're you're kind of like trying to watch these stories develop over the course of years when you're doing House of R. Where like, I feel like maybe some of these franchises that we identify so deeply with are not appealing to younger people and that they're like, for me, it's Super Mario Brothers. And I know that that's like, or like, some of the stuff where you're like, oh, man, this video game is really hitting for people like this. Like this adaptation of a video game, whereas like, we're still like, no, there's another way to do Star Wars, man. We can do one more thing.

• 16:42Speaker 01

  Why can't there be myriad ways? Why can't there be Star Wars content that is for younger people?

• 16:49Speaker 06

  This is why I said his, I'm stopping Star Wars after Andor take is toxic because for that exact reason. The thing that allowed us to get the brilliance and unrivaled excellence of Andor in the first place, of course, is Tony Gilroy's genius, a really clear vision, etc. But it was like, we're going to do something that is specifically utterly itself.

• 17:07Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 17:08Speaker 06

  So then if everybody else is like, the only good Star Wars is Andor, or I want to try to make Andor, then everything is going to be ubiquitous and samey and diluted and bad.

• 17:17Speaker 01

  And I think the other thing is we can't just be doing fan service for the fans who are like, listen, I nobody should be really listening to me. Star Wars shouldn't be for 53 year olds.

• 17:28Speaker 06

  No, I think it should be for everybody.

• 17:30Speaker 01

  It should be for everybody, I'm saying, but it should be aimed at a younger audience.

• 17:35Speaker 06

  If I do. I intend to still be watching Star Wars.

• 17:38Speaker 01

  Oh, and I love it. And I watch all of it, every, every scrap of it. You know, like, and I'm, I'm listening to the audiobooks. I'm listening, I'm all of it. I'm all in on Star Wars, but I'm not saying all Star Wars needs to be Andor, because Andor is unquestionably a mature show, you know? There should be stuff that we should be like, oh, this is, you know, not for me, because it's aimed at a young audience, which is perfect, you know? We need to be bringing still people, bringing people in, but.

• 18:08Speaker 06

  Aren't, we have a few colleagues and close friends who have young children, who are falling in love with Star Wars in real time.

• 18:14Chris Ryan?

  I think I'm thinking about it more in terms of like.

• 18:16Speaker 06

  And they just want Uncle Chris to take them to see Mando Grogu, and he says, fuck off.

• 18:20Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. What's the dream about what happened in the movie theaters last year in 2025? Is the success of One Battle Centers and Weapons? And people saying like, original movies are back. These kinds of stories resonate with people because it aren't rehashes of, you know, the same like three films over and over and over again. We can break out of these like templates that we have. And then on the flip side of that, a lot of box office success was rooted in things like Minecraft?

• 18:48Speaker 01

  Oh, don't pretend.

• 18:50Chris Ryan?

  No, I, for a second, I was like, did they make a Mineswe?

• 18:53Speaker 01

  Minecraft?

• 18:54Chris Ryan?

  I, I thought they maybe made a Mineswe movie, but that would be pretty boring.

• 18:58Speaker 01

  I don't believe this for a second.

• 19:00Chris Ryan?

  I'm sorry, I'm just a leftist Andor fan. No, I'm just joking. I, I will watch more Star Wars. I just.

• 19:07Speaker 01

  No, no, I agree with you because.

• 19:08Chris Ryan?

  Specifically, Mando Grogu, there, there, there's something wrong with this movie.

• 19:12Speaker 06

  It connects to the opening, hey, let's talk about the new cast of A Night at the Seven Kingdoms, season two point, right? Because it's like the part of the reason that that show was such like a jolt for Game of Thrones fans and such an animating experience of like, not just is this good? It is. Does the show understand what it's trying to be? Yes. Is the tone clear? Yes. Is the sensibility established? Yes. You felt in real time and it built week after week. People were excited, not only to consume it, but to share it with each other. So I see this cast list today for three of the main roles in the second. Season and I am levitating.

• 19:47Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 19:47Speaker 06

  I feel as alive as I have as a Thrones fan in years because it's like, these are excellent performers who are coming in to perform crucial roles for a moment in time. Right? And it's gonna be beautiful. It's six weeks and I can't wait. And that's all we need because it knows what it is.

• 20:01Speaker 01

  And I think that this show, Night of the Seven Kingdoms, is interested in telling slice of life, short form stories, you know? And that is something that larger IP driven stuff, whether it's the MCU, whether it's all the Star Wars, whether it's all that stuff are predominantly interested in stories that are too interwoven with the rest of their stories. And it has become unwieldy. Unless you are.

• 20:28Chris Ryan?

  This was the success of Wonder Man to me.

• 20:29Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 20:29Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 20:30Speaker 01

  Incredible.

• 20:30Chris Ryan?

  Wonder Man should just be like a model for Marvel going forward and instead it's gonna be an anomaly, I would imagine.

• 20:36Speaker 01

  Well, wouldn't it be great for some, if they could figure out both? If they could figure it out so that it wasn't feast or famine, so that it wasn't one or the other, that they're servicing a larger, comics does this. Comics can do storytelling where you are following an issue to issue storyline in Daredevil that is about Hell's Kitchen and one of, one law case that he's pursuing. But then, yes, he is part of a larger event that's happening that includes Doctor Strange and Spider-Man and team ups and all the rest. How can you figure out how to tell grounded, street level stories while that, like Wonder Man, that feels like a cohesive whole, but that doesn't concern itself with multiverse

• 21:19Speaker 01

  or what's Loki up to or any other nonsense?

• 21:22Speaker 06

  What if we put Trevor Slattery in everything?

• 21:24Speaker 01

  By the way, and just let them do Shakespeare monologues all the time? I loved it.

• 21:29Chris Ryan?

  Um, you know, and I think also there's a little bit of, uh.

• 21:31Speaker 06

  Did you get rid of your computer? Now I'm gonna get rid of mine. We go in no computer?

• 21:34Chris Ryan?

  I don't need it. You're my two favorite people and this is a show I can, I can talk about with my eyes closed.

• 21:39Speaker 01

  We are your two favorite people. I love this. Andy, you can eat shit, bro.

• 21:44Speaker 06

  Is one of my favorite people.

• 21:45Speaker 01

  Yeah. Oh, I love it. Now we just compete.

• 21:48Chris Ryan?

  You can guess. Uh, all right. I want to get to Shoresy in a second. I do want to say one more thing about Star Wars. Here's the thing.

• 21:53Speaker 06

  Okay.

• 21:54Chris Ryan?

  There is. Is a issue with that franchise that I think is like a little bit of too big to succeed. So they are now.

• 22:03Speaker 01

  To succeed.

• 22:04Chris Ryan?

  Cause they're operating at a margin where they're like, it costs X amount to make one of these things. And so it needs to be Y amount of a success for it to be worth it. And so the reason why I almost feel like Charlie Brown with the football with some of this stuff is that when they first started talking about Kenobi, it was the guy who wrote Drive and it was supposed to be Ben Kenobi, like noir detective. Jedi detective. Acolyte clearly went through some kind of like transformation in its, from its inception to its actual release. Like they have messed with this stuff for the most part. And the reason why Andor is Andor for a hundred reasons is because they almost wrote it where it's like, you can't do anything to this.

• 22:46Chris Ryan?

  Like there, you could, you can have Vader walk across the screen if you want, but for the most part, this thing is like so, it's like a watch, like you wouldn't be able to do anything with the gears and the, and the, and the hands, you know what I mean?

• 22:59Speaker 01

  I also think they, they trapped themselves in a,

• 23:05Speaker 01

  in a process that did not reward building a new like thing. Like they, from the foundation built something weak, you know, without a, without a plan, looking ahead, with just kind of freestyling movie to movie for that first trilogy.

• 23:21Speaker 06

  Would you say there was one fatal flaw inside of the machine and that if you just?

• 23:27Chris Ryan?

  And if you just like put the shield up.

• 23:29Speaker 01

  If you just don't put the shield away, you put the aim, the device away and just trusted your. Um, I mean, I would say like the thing that they didn't do with all of Star Wars. And that boy, do I hope Filoni will remedy it is, uh, is exactly, uh, the advice that Shoresy would give them. Go out, kill some guys.

• 23:53Speaker 06

  Fucking pro.

• 23:55Speaker 01

  Score some goals. Score some goals. Make sure they never forget who you are.

• 23:59Speaker 06

  Never let them forget who you are. Who are we?

• 24:02Chris Ryan?

  Let's talk about the Sudbury Blueberry Bulldogs.

• 24:04Speaker 01

  Yes!

• 24:05Chris Ryan?

  So for casuals who are just along for the ride for a few minutes here, let me talk a little bit about Shoresy broadly. This is a now-long-running Canadian sports comedy from Jared Kiso, who previously had done the incredibly-long-running Letter Kenny, which was a

• 24:21Speaker 01

  Ten seasons.

• 24:22Chris Ryan?

  Canadian slice-of-life comedy. When Jared Kiso first started Shoresy, it was in creative tandem somewhat with Jacob Tierney, who has since gone on to great acclaim for his writing and directing work on Heat Rivalry, where he makes one of the most assured TV series in recent memory.

• 24:40Speaker 01

  Oh, and one of the most explosive

• 24:42Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 24:42Speaker 01

  in every way.

• 24:43Chris Ryan?

  Yes. And Jared Kiso, so he writes every episode, I believe, is credited to Kiso? I think there might be.

• 24:55Speaker 01

  No, there's some, I think there's a couple of other people.

• 24:57Chris Ryan?

  But he did every episode this season.

• 24:59Speaker 01

  I think so.

• 24:59Chris Ryan?

  And the first-

• 25:00Speaker 06

  If you had a computer open, you could check.

• 25:02Speaker 01

  And Shoresy is a character in Letter Kenny. For many seasons in Letter Kenny, Shoresy is an unseen character that Jared Kiso plays.

• 25:11Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 25:12Speaker 01

  So Kiso plays Shoresy in the show Shoresy that we watch, but he plays Wayne on Letter Kenny, one of the leads.

• 25:18Chris Ryan?

  Right.

• 25:18Speaker 01

  But invents this side-character who's a hockey player who's constantly taunting other hockey players, but it's always from like a bathroom stall or a shower.

• 25:28Chris Ryan?

  Right.

• 25:29Speaker 01

  He's visually obfuscated.

• 25:32Chris Ryan?

  Yes. The first three seasons of Shoresy are essentially a cycle about a semi-pro senior-league hockey team in Sudbury, rising from the-

• 25:44Speaker 06

  Should we start calling it Burberry in honor of the great one? Wayne Gretzky, who called it Burberry instead of Sudbury?

• 25:50Speaker 01

  Really funny.

• 25:50Speaker 06

  The most incredible moments of the season.

• 25:52Chris Ryan?

  Shout out to everybody writing into the Watch mailbox, thewatchatspotify.com, because a lot of insight into how Canadians are feeling about Wayne Gretzky, the great one, these days.

• 26:01Speaker 01

  Oh, really?

• 26:02Chris Ryan?

  Mixed.

• 26:03Speaker 01

  How so?

• 26:03Chris Ryan?

  Mixed.

• 26:04Speaker 01

  Mixed why? I'm curious.

• 26:05Chris Ryan?

  I think that his-

• 26:06Speaker 01

  Is there, or is there news, or has this always been the case?

• 26:09Chris Ryan?

  No, it's just, I think Wayne's gone out of his way to associate himself with our president here in the United States of America.

• 26:15Speaker 01

  I didn't know that.

• 26:16Chris Ryan?

  And our president has talked a lot about colonizing Canada.

• 26:20Speaker 01

  Oh, no, I made a 51st state joke at a How Did This Get Made show in Vancouver, and they were not into it.

• 26:31Speaker 01

  They were not into it and booed me for quite a while.

• 26:35Chris Ryan?

  Because of the joke or because of the idea behind the joke?

• 26:39Speaker 01

  I think because of the idea behind the joke.

• 26:41Chris Ryan?

  They weren't like, hey.

• 26:42Speaker 01

  Even that I, they, they wouldn't even entertain the joke of it. It was, they, they, they shut it down.

• 26:49Chris Ryan?

  So that came up, but you know, and then, so they do the first three seasons. I think a flawless three season run. Which isn't to say there are really any flaws with four and five. It's just a different show. It's now about a post playing career for our titular character.

• 27:03Speaker 06

  Yep.

• 27:04Chris Ryan?

  The, uh, fourth season I thought was lovely. Jason and I talked about it a lot.

• 27:08Speaker 06

  Yeah, you sure did.

• 27:08Chris Ryan?

  Um.

• 27:09Speaker 06

  You sure did.

• 27:10Speaker 01

  Fourth season was a blast because it's like, the show has so few moves to make in terms of these people and where they are. And it's constantly calibrating and recalibrating them in context of the game, the, the league and each other in a wonderful way. Uh, but the fourth season did two incredible things, which was it introduced a series of young people that, that our team became the kind of mentors to, like teenagers.

• 27:39Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 27:39Speaker 01

  And the entire fourth season took place off season.

• 27:43Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 27:43Speaker 01

  So it was about.

• 27:45Speaker 06

  Summer in Sud Vegas.

• 27:46Speaker 01

  Yes, it was all about summer break. And so the vibes were so different and what, and I, and it was such a refreshing way to tell Shoresy stories.

• 27:53Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 27:54Speaker 01

  And plus the love story between Shoresy.

• 27:56Chris Ryan?

  Uh, and Laura.

• 27:57Speaker 01

  And Laura is incredible in that season.

• 27:59Chris Ryan?

  Yes, which takes another step this season, so.

• 28:02Speaker 01

  Which was why I was shocked when we did our, our season for wrap up, that you were insistent on not having Mal. You know?

• 28:10Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 28:11Speaker 01

  You know, it's, it's, cause I was like, she's right there.

• 28:14Speaker 06

  She's literally looking through the door.

• 28:17Chris Ryan?

  Wearing a Bulldogs jersey. I don't remember why I didn't have you on.

• 28:21Speaker 06

  Hmm.

• 28:21Chris Ryan?

  It might not have been a concerted effort, or you may have been projecting a lot of stress at that moment.

• 28:26Speaker 06

  That would be, that would be shocking. That doesn't seem likely.

• 28:30Chris Ryan?

  But you're here now.

• 28:31Speaker 06

  Can't imagine it was that.

• 28:32Speaker 01

  It doesn't sound like now.

• 28:33Speaker 06

  Can't imagine it was that.

• 28:34Chris Ryan?

  Well, I'm gonna lay out for you here. What, like, tell me about your...

• 28:38Speaker 06

  This relationship to Shoresy?

• 28:39Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 28:40Speaker 06

  Learned about it from you guys. So that's nice, because I cherish things that I get to share with you, even if you don't feel the same way.

• 28:47Chris Ryan?

  Don't start crying yet.

• 28:47Speaker 06

  I will cry today, as I cry during every season of Shoresy.

• 28:50Speaker 01

  Oh, same.

• 28:51Speaker 06

  Couple moments this season hit me so hard, I was sobbing like a baby.

• 28:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:55Speaker 06

  Um, I love this show. It took me, as I think it takes some people, maybe like two, it's, you know, each, uh, season is six episodes, they're somewhere between 18 to like 27 minutes. And it took me probably like three episodes into the first season to get acclimated, right? To the tone, to the pace, to the nature of the dialogue, to the fact that every like fourth or fifth line is a repeated line of dialogue or an in-joke. The rhythm and language of the show. Once I had a feel for that, I thought I was experiencing the most magical...

• 29:25Speaker 06

  I love sports, right? So it's a great sports story. It is a story about community. It is, for the young characters and the old characters alike, eternally a coming of age story and a story about identity and sense of self. And I think it is a beautiful friendship and relationship story.

• 29:39Speaker 01

  And found family story in that regard.

• 29:41Speaker 06

  Yes, and so the ability, right, the micro and macro community. The community of the team, a line inside of the team, and then Sudbury at large. Also then like one of the genius strokes in this season. Well, okay, you had something like the, um, the haunt, right? The US team in prior seasons is a real, like, real thorn in the side rival. And now it's like, well, we gotta bring, sure.

• 30:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, love him.

• 30:05Speaker 06

  Palmer Delaney back.

• 30:06Chris Ryan?

  This is a real...

• 30:07Speaker 06

  This team off.

• 30:07Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, echoes.

• 30:08Speaker 06

  They never cease to surprise us, and it's always so hilariously sidesplittingly funny, and I think so tender and moving. And often like profound.

• 30:18Speaker 01

  In a way that I am consistently shocked, you know? Because Letter Kenny is wonderful, and has so much of all of the components that you're talking about, with the possible exception that it doesn't have nearly the heart that Shoresy has.

• 30:34Speaker 06

  I've not seen Letter Kenny.

• 30:35Speaker 01

  Letter Kenny is phenomenal, and is truly one of the funniest shows... Those out there, in my opinion, was just pound for pound, a joke machine. And Shoresy, though, has so much of that stuff and so many repeated jokes, exactly what you're talking about. Building out the community, that's a big thing in Letter Kenny. But Shoresy has this forward moving plot. Letter Kenny is week to week, you can watch it out of order, it wouldn't matter, none of it's cumulative.

• 31:02Chris Ryan?

  Right.

• 31:02Speaker 01

  Shoresy is a narrative story that has at its root, an absolute heartbreaking story every season.

• 31:09Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 31:10Speaker 01

  Every season, there's something that's going on that will break your heart. Positively, negatively, everybody is emotionally invested. In a way that you are like, how, um, how do I have such access to these hockey players' emotions? And then I think it's really like, not to like, jump straight to the end of this whole season. But Nat's lecture to the church women about why the hockey pla- why they're wrong about hockey players. Yeah. And the culture.

• 31:40Chris Ryan?

  Sure.

• 31:40Speaker 01

  Is incredible and was one of the times that I cried during the show.

• 31:44Chris Ryan?

  So I would say like, for folks who are still listening, even after we've gotten into this conversation and are still like, looking for a reason to watch. You could watch Five and not know, you know, you could start on Five. And I've been kind of egging Andy on to watch the first episode of Five. Because in many ways, I think the first episode of Five is a perfect piece of television.

• 32:06Speaker 01

  Great.

• 32:06Chris Ryan?

  And is the, if I had to tell somebody, like, what does Shoresy do well? I'd be like, watch these three acts of television and tell me another show that's able to do the three things that this one does in one place. That being said, that episode and so many of those scenes hit so much harder. If you know that Nat has basically been doing that same speech since season one.

• 32:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:29Chris Ryan?

  Since she has been like, making the same kind of appeal to the larger community about the importance that sports plays in keeping a sense of like, you know, continuity and togetherness in a place alive. And that's the thing, it's like, we talk about it as a comedy, as a drama, as a sports show. I think it's also like, when I was watching it this last season, I was like, this is a show about utopia. Because these guys are always like.

• 32:56Chris Ryan?

  Nobody has like a hard life in this show, like hard, hard. Like they are at strip clubs and hanging out at bars and getting chicken tendies.

• 33:04Speaker 01

  The fact that this season was so heavily focused on that Sudbury has, the strip club has reopened.

• 33:11Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 33:11Speaker 01

  Finally, because there has never been a strip club in a previous season, I don't think.

• 33:16Chris Ryan?

  I, I.

• 33:17Speaker 01

  Or if it does, it's very fleeting and I don't.

• 33:19Chris Ryan?

  They have lots of nightclubs, it seems like, but not necessarily a strip club.

• 33:22Speaker 01

  This strip club is so foregrounded and its importance is so, it, it, it is so hilarious. And, and how often they are inside of and telling very sweet and having very emotional moments inside the strip club is really very funny and great.

• 33:38Chris Ryan?

  And I've had like experiences like that.

• 33:40Speaker 01

  At a strip club?

• 33:41Chris Ryan?

  No, not, no, I just mean in a town like.

• 33:43Speaker 01

  How much Scores funny money do you have in your wallet right now?

• 33:46Chris Ryan?

  Do you know what Scores? Scores was like pretty big when I was in New York, like it was like.

• 33:52Speaker 01

  Same, that's why, that's my strip club reference.

• 33:54Chris Ryan?

  I never went to Scores.

• 33:56Speaker 01

  I don't think it exists anymore. I definitely did.

• 33:59Chris Ryan?

  They went to like an Atlantic City place and they played Joel Santana and I was like, this is pretty awesome.

• 34:04Speaker 06

  Yeah. Were you there with Delaney or?

• 34:06Chris Ryan?

  No, it was a bachelor party.

• 34:07Speaker 01

  Getting lappies.

• 34:08Speaker 06

  Getting lappies.

• 34:08Speaker 01

  Getting lappies with Delaney.

• 34:10Speaker 06

  Love the lappy, loves cocaine.

• 34:12Chris Ryan?

  Anyway, I had, I had a point, but anyway, it's a, a depiction of utopia.

• 34:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:18Speaker 06

  I think everything you said was so beautiful just now. I would like you to say it all again, but on this table posed like Hitch, uh, forward.

• 34:26Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 34:27Speaker 06

  With a blanket around you and a laptop in front of you.

• 34:29Speaker 01

  It's, you're so right because it is, inside of that first episode is everything.

• 34:34Speaker 06

  That's great about the show.

• 34:35Speaker 01

  Every piece of what makes, it is in microcosm, the show.

• 34:41Chris Ryan?

  This episode is brought to you by Volkswagen. It can be hard to do your own thing when everyone else is following everyone else, but that's what some of the best films are about. An outcast striving to make their own way in the world. And this is your sign to be that outcast. From us, from VW, from the other outcasts out there, take a chance. Make the most of every day and don't be afraid to veer off course every now and then, because if you don't do it now, then when? Learn more at VW.com.

• 35:11Chris Ryan?

  From now on spoilers for season five and spoilers pretty much for the entirety of Shorez because we'll probably reference things.

• 35:17Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 35:18Chris Ryan?

  This first season opens up with, and I don't really have a roadmap for how I want to talk about this, I thought we could just enjoy ourselves. The first episode of this season five opens with a group of these guys who I guess are living together.

• 35:30Speaker 06

  They are.

• 35:30Chris Ryan?

  I didn't really process that in previous seasons.

• 35:33Speaker 06

  They have always been living together.

• 35:33Chris Ryan?

  But they are all living in a...

• 35:35Speaker 06

  Shoresy and Big Sexies apartment.

• 35:37Chris Ryan?

  Apartment.

• 35:38Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 35:38Chris Ryan?

  And are all simultaneously masturbating.

• 35:41Speaker 06

  Whacking it.

• 35:42Chris Ryan?

  Shoresy comes home and is like, "Do you guys want to go get beers?"

• 35:45Speaker 06

  Yep.

• 35:45Chris Ryan?

  And everybody is not in, everybody's in their rooms.

• 35:47Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 35:48Chris Ryan?

  And as he goes into each one of their rooms without knocking, each one of them is masturbating.

• 35:53Speaker 06

  In their own unique way.

• 35:54Chris Ryan?

  In their own unique way.

• 35:55Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 35:56Chris Ryan?

  What did this, what kind of insight did this give you into the male mindset?

• 36:01Chris Ryan?

  That we're all poets, right? That we're all individual artists.

• 36:04Speaker 06

  I thought this was possibly the best scene in television history.

• 36:08Speaker 01

  It's so funny and it's like so true.

• 36:12Speaker 06

  Okay, which part struck you as most true?

• 36:14Speaker 01

  I think it's...

• 36:15Speaker 06

  Who did you each relate to the most? Hitchcock?

• 36:17Speaker 01

  Not that it's...

• 36:17Speaker 06

  On all fours.

• 36:18Speaker 01

  I think it is so true that guys...

• 36:21Speaker 06

  Goodie, like my buddy plugged the laptop in.

• 36:24Chris Ryan?

  He's trying to give you game right here. Let him, let him cook.

• 36:27Speaker 01

  Guys are up to stuff that they think is what everybody else is doing.

• 36:31Speaker 06

  Okay.

• 36:32Speaker 01

  There, I think guys are doing stuff, guys figure stuff out as kids.

• 36:36Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 36:37Speaker 01

  That they just maintain and think this is what everybody has figured out.

• 36:42Speaker 06

  Okay.

• 36:42Speaker 01

  This is how everybody does this.

• 36:44Chris Ryan?

  Right.

• 36:44Speaker 01

  And only when confronted with somebody interrupting and be like...

• 36:48Speaker 06

  Sure.

• 36:49Speaker 01

  What, like, when Shoresy walks in on Hitch and is like, "What are you doing?"

• 36:53Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 36:53Speaker 01

  And Hitch is on all fours with a, like, with a blanket over him, like, he's like snufflephagus or something. I was like, "What's happening?" It was perfect. And the, just the absolute ease, "What do you think I'm doing?"

• 37:08Chris Ryan?

  And which one of them is watching?

• 37:09Speaker 06

  Tryon Hall's.

• 37:10Chris Ryan?

  Hitch.

• 37:10Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 37:11Speaker 06

  Because he has the whole speech about how you can't watch porn because then you can't...

• 37:14Chris Ryan?

  Do it really.

• 37:15Speaker 06

  Actually have sex. And then Dolo is in the shower, also jerking off, and Shoresy is like, "Do you have a laptop?" And then he's like, "Spink bank!"

• 37:22Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 37:23Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 37:24Chris Ryan?

  So Dolo's going off memory.

• 37:25Speaker 06

  Great stuff.

• 37:26Chris Ryan?

  Hitch is masturbating to

• 37:28Speaker 06

  Watching for try on halls.

• 37:28Chris Ryan?

  Shopping mall try on halls.

• 37:30Speaker 01

  But also, it took me a number, I had to, I have closed captioning on it all the time. But it took me a while to figure out, he was saying, "try on halls."

• 37:39Speaker 06

  I thought it was house at first, try on house.

• 37:41Speaker 01

  Cause Hitch's accent is so nuts.

• 37:43Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 37:44Speaker 01

  Oh, boy. And so it's even funnier because you're like, so that when I realized he was saying, "try on halls," I was like, "this is incredible."

• 37:51Speaker 06

  It's the best.

• 37:52Chris Ryan?

  So the guys go out and get beers after this is settled.

• 37:54Speaker 06

  We get beers?

• 37:55Chris Ryan?

  It's like an eight minute scene that is, like, to your point, about like, the repetitive nature of the jokes and the jokes building. And then they'll deflate for a second, really like, "you're doing this again," and then it'll be like,

• 38:07Speaker 06

  Meta, so you build, you climax, and then you deflate.

• 38:10Chris Ryan?

  But I always think about the-

• 38:11Speaker 01

  The refractory period for the jokes can be minutes and sometimes episodes long.

• 38:15Chris Ryan?

  Will Ferrell falling through the floor and Austin Powers. And that joke goes on for so long that it gets so much more funny once it gets back.

• 38:23Speaker 01

  It's the Mr. Show Thimble sketch.

• 38:24Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 38:25Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 38:25Chris Ryan?

  They then are, like, "let's go get beers," they go out and get beers and get a ride from one of the MILFs that I believe they slept with last season.

• 38:33Speaker 06

  No, Jill has wanted to sleep with Shoresy. Jill has wanted, the Charlize Theron lookalike, the doppelganger Jill, who has been like, you know, "Shoresy, you should teach the youth," and, "Shoresy, if you just come in the back," and then he's like, "I'm gonna leave, I'm gonna go to Laura." So she's been trying to hook up with Shoresy, including in this episode, where she's like, "I'm just deciding, like, I'm trying to figure out if I'm gonna go home alone."

• 38:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, turn the heat on, or am I gonna have someone there to keep me warm?

• 38:56Speaker 06

  And then, of course, building toward the threesome plot, which was a stroke of absolute genius.

• 39:00Speaker 01

  Incredible, incredible.

• 39:01Chris Ryan?

  Uh, they go to one of the kids from the previous seasons.

• 39:05Speaker 06

  Jack.

• 39:05Chris Ryan?

  Jack is in a youth hockey, a national youth hockey team now, where is he playing? Like, I don't know, 90 minutes away, somewhere. And they go and you're like, "this is great, this is so funny, these guys are drinking beers, these guys are hanging out." Now it's gonna be Shoresy and his boys at a youth hockey game, this is gonna be hilarious.

• 39:20Speaker 01

  And it's really sweet because they're going to support one of the kids we met last season.

• 39:25Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 39:25Speaker 01

  Which is-

• 39:26Speaker 06

  A Blue Bear buddy. A Blue Bear buddy.

• 39:27Chris Ryan?

  And they're told in the car that this kid has been having a little bit of trouble, but they don't, I don't really get into it.

• 39:32Speaker 06

  Right, he's not scoring goals, and he's a goal scorer.

• 39:34Chris Ryan?

  Shoresy and the guys show up, they're in the hallway, they- Talk to the kids coach for a second. They know who he is. There's some debate about like the right way to play hockey, et cetera. And then Jack comes out from the locker room to see Shoresy. And you're like, this is cool. This is whatever. And they all are like, Jack, Jack, Jack. And he gets pulled away by Shoresy. And as you can see, as he's walking down the hall, Jack's crying. And he's just like-

• 39:56Speaker 01

  He's uncontrollably overwhelmed emotionally and starts to cry.

• 40:01Chris Ryan?

  And in almost any other iteration of a television show like this, Shoresy turns that into a joke. And it becomes like a huge like, I don't get you young kids and how you have emotions and like your Gen Z millennial wokeness or whatever. And instead Shoresy's just like, let it out.

• 40:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:19Speaker 06

  Puts his arm around them.

• 40:19Chris Ryan?

  He's like, you already started, so let's finish it. Like, get it out.

• 40:22Speaker 01

  And he's covering for him.

• 40:24Chris Ryan?

  And he makes sure he can't see and nobody can see.

• 40:26Speaker 01

  Nobody can see it.

• 40:27Chris Ryan?

  And he's just like, what's the problem? And he's like, you know, I want to go home. And he's like, none of your friends are at home. What the fuck do you want to go home for? And they have this long conversation. And it is so beautiful and so amazingly well done. And you know, you just, Kiso is like, obviously a polymath talent. Like, I have no doubt that he can do all this different stuff. But jeez, and I didn't expect like, to get hit that hard in minute 11.

• 40:51Speaker 01

  Ability, this shows ability, his ability specifically, and it happens in Letter Kenny, just not as frequently. To turn from something that is just outright absurdly hilarious of like, looking at each of the guys jerking off, comparing jerk off. Come over here and look at him jerk off. You gotta see what this guy's up to. Building, building, building, heightening this joke. And then cutting directly from that into this incredibly emotionally available and sweet moment between him and Jack that then is the spine of the rest of the show. You know, like, Jack coming back after each quarter and Shoresy basically outlining,

• 41:36Speaker 01

  this is what you're gonna do. First things first, you're gonna, and then

• 41:39Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 41:39Speaker 01

  In, in, once again, in microcosm, he sets up how Jack is going to get himself out of his head.

• 41:46Chris Ryan?

  Sure.

• 41:46Speaker 01

  Into the ice and into the game. And that is exactly what happens for the rest of the season for them.

• 41:51Speaker 06

  And this was the first thing you texted me about the season was, did you, like, how much did you cry when he put his, and I was so touched and so moved because it's the perfect shortcut to unlocking everything about the show and the characters. This is like, kind of the case for why you shouldn't just start with season five, or you should just start at the beginning because it is like two year old, that he could have like mocked them and ribbed them. That is where we started with the blueberry buddies, with the helicoptering and the toxic mess.

• 42:19Chris Ryan?

  Also, he's the guy who's like reffing youth hockey games and just talking about those mothers for like the entire time.

• 42:24Speaker 01

  That's how Shoresy started, was just as an antagonist to the young people in Letterkings.

• 42:29Speaker 06

  Right, the Cory and Liam, exactly. And so you have, you have that as like the backdrop.

• 42:37Speaker 06

  The building from that, and like toward the end of last season, we moved into this really like emotionally resonant place with the karaoke and with Jack's Pursuit of Maria and how that mapped onto Shoresy's relationship with Laura and the reading of the notes. I remember you guys talking about on the pod, how hard that hit you. But it's not just inside of their relationship and how that tells us that Shoresy, who we've seen cry in every episode of the show, probably. He's always a free crier, even when he's a dick. We're on the part two journey of the show, which is about him being a leader and a coach. So you have to actually believe that he could unite all of these people under his direction and that they would say, and the number of people we heard, you should coach. And he had to decide, like, this is where I want to put my love.

• 43:20Speaker 06

  And then you see what that means to him and why he's good at it so authentically. It was beautiful.

• 43:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, I thought it was incredible, and there is. You watch him have to, at the end of the last season, he is forced to, and you watch him have to give up playing and all that that means to him. And this season, I think what, one of the things we learn is his reluctance to coach, or what's a little bit holding him back is that for him, that's his brother. And so new character for this season is Mo, who is Shoresy's brother.

• 43:56Speaker 01

  Big Brother and that was those moments give you such insight into Shoresy. When you realize like how much he's like, that's one of the moments that I cried is like when when he shores is going around and saying, who are you? Who are you?

• 44:09Speaker 06

  Oh, my gosh.

• 44:09Speaker 01

  In the locker room to everybody, who are you? And everybody's defining themselves.

• 44:13Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 44:13Speaker 01

  This is who I am. This is who I am. And they said, he says, who? And he says, I'm Shoresy's big brother. And I was like, yeah.

• 44:20Speaker 01

  Uh oh, you know, like, so it's like, that to me also was like, oh, put Shoresy inside of a family dynamic that I didn't really know.

• 44:29Speaker 06

  I think that's another great example of how the show has always had a lot of heart, but the emotional heft has expanded. Because earlier insights, which were very brief in prior seasons into Shoresy's history is like, he was adopted. And what did that mean? Like, yeah, learning that he was called like waffle as a kid and stuff like that. It was all like, it was joke based and there's still a lot of humor here. But this is the first time that we've understood that he can't like, talk about what his brother meant to him without breaking that.

• 44:55Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, I thought that that was like, it's easier for him to coach a kid through their emotions than it is for him to deal with his own. You know, I know that that kind of comes up again in the second episode. And I'll just finish the first episode dissection. We're not going to go through every episode at this level of detail. I mean, we could if we wanted to, but.

• 45:10Speaker 01

  Every episode.

• 45:12Chris Ryan?

  Uh, I just thought that the third act of this episode, which is essentially like, he's kind of talked Jack into going back out and playing. And this show does hockey really well and they do, they photograph sports really well. And I think that it's the most legible kind of like execution of of a game on TV right now when you're watching it.

• 45:32Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 45:32Chris Ryan?

  But what they choose to do is Shoresy, every period of a game that Jack is playing.

• 45:39Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 45:40Chris Ryan?

  Gives Jack an a lesson, an idea to follow, like first.

• 45:43Speaker 01

  Like a simple goal.

• 45:44Chris Ryan?

  So if you can't, if you feel like you're not having a good time and your game isn't, is not firing, what you gotta do is you gotta fucking kill some guys.

• 45:51Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 45:52Chris Ryan?

  So the first bell goes and he comes back and he's like, yeah, you killed some guys. And now what are you gonna do? You're gonna score a goal. And he goes out and he scores a goal. And then he's like, what are you gonna do in the third period? You're gonna make sure they always remember who you are. Never let them forget who you are. And. The fact that they do that in those like three mini scenes within one scene without ever showing Jack playing, without ever showing Shoresy going back to the crowd, it's just like they meet up in the hallway behind the ice, then they go their separate ways and they do it three times is their joke style applied to drama.

• 46:25Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 46:25Chris Ryan?

  Which is awesome.

• 46:26Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. I mean, and it's so rewarding because that stuff, all of those component pieces then become the structure for them versus the EU teams.

• 46:38Speaker 06

  Yes, exactly.

• 46:39Speaker 01

  You know, and you hear when Jack and the rest of the blueberry buddies are on the sidelines

• 46:44Speaker 06

  Mason, Carter and Caleb.

• 46:47Speaker 01

  When they're all there watching the game, you know, Jack repeats almost like a mantra. Jack has has internalized Shoresy's teaching, which Shoresy has now told us was his brother's teaching, that his brother had a way of simplifying things for him. So that it's not, Shoresy is good at this. It is, um, Mo is good at this and Shoresy is just telling us Mo, there's an episode of, I don't think either of you watch it, but there's an incredible episode of Free Run Beyond Journeys.

• 47:19Speaker 06

  I'm about to start this.

• 47:20Speaker 01

  It's the greatest show on TV, full stop.

• 47:24Speaker 06

  Wow.

• 47:25Speaker 01

  It is, you are going to-

• 47:26Chris Ryan?

  Free Run's like Kill Some Guys?

• 47:28Speaker 01

  Kill Some Guys. Well, no, there's this incredible episode where-

• 47:32Speaker 06

  Names of Beers, yeah.

• 47:34Speaker 01

  Get some puffers. They go, uh, Free Run travels with two other people, two young people. She's like an immortal elf and she travels with two humans and they're kind of of the same age and they have like a kind of will they, won't they dynamic.

• 47:50Chris Ryan?

  Classic elf stuff.

• 47:52Speaker 01

  Fern and, and Stark. And they are gonna go on a date and Stark asks Free Run, what, where should I take Fern on this date? And Free Run walks him to a marketplace, you should take her to look at this, you should take her to look at that, this and that. And at the end of this whole sequence, he says, wow, you really know Fern well. And she's like, I don't. These are all the things that Hyter, the, her father figure, told me about Fern.

• 48:22Chris Ryan?

  Oh, I love that.

• 48:23Speaker 01

  And it's this wonderful moment where you realize Freeyrin is, is, is an incredible maternal figure to these young people. But that for her, it takes, she has such trouble learning about people, really? That she's in, she's taken what Hyter told her and has just expanded on it. And it's this beautiful moment in what is unquestionably the most beautiful show visually and.

• 48:48Chris Ryan?

  What channel is this on?

• 48:49Speaker 01

  It's on, oh, uh, it's on, I'm watching it on Crunchyroll.

• 48:53Speaker 06

  Yeah, it's, they have it on Netflix.

• 48:54Speaker 01

  The first season's on Netflix at least. Um, it's all over the place.

• 48:59Chris Ryan?

  Did you like how I asked you what channel?

• 49:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, 56. It's on channel 56. Just tune it in.

• 49:05Chris Ryan?

  It's like.

• 49:05Speaker 01

  You've got rabbit ears.

• 49:07Speaker 06

  Yeah, just move the antenna.

• 49:08Chris Ryan?

  Uh, okay.

• 49:09Speaker 06

  That opening sequence also, more so, that's kind of the, the emotional core, but like we get little things set up that are really crucial, like the dive. You know, oh, you can't hit anybody because other players are gonna take a dive and you don't want to hurt your team because you get a penalty. So this setup for the big speech we're gonna hear Shoresy make at Bro Dude in the second episode and then the backdrop of what we hear from Teppo. The EU goes iconic, iconic villain character.

• 49:32Speaker 01

  Wild character.

• 49:33Speaker 06

  Just incredible stuff, but also there's the conversation with Cunningham, the coach of that team, who is like, as we learn, a three-time coach of the year. So sort of the poster boy for what a coach should be.

• 49:43Chris Ryan?

  And he's more new school, is like wearing a cool suit.

• 49:45Speaker 06

  Right, exactly. But he's also like talking about the kids, like you gotta treat them like dogs.

• 49:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:49Speaker 06

  That's not how Shoresy is focusing on this at all. And that discussion they have about would the, how would you rather win or lose honorably or dishonorably? Which ends up being this thing that almost like Shoresy has absorbed via osmosis. And it is this thing that comes back at the finale in this big where he, where he's like, I had an epiphany. Like I have clarity about what matters to me.

• 50:11Speaker 01

  Well, what's so clear is that, and has always been clear, is that Shoresy plays dirty. You know, and that proudly plays dirty.

• 50:19Chris Ryan?

  Well, the episode almost begins with like this dream that he's having of just destroying an entire team of guys by like, uh. Hitting him in the ankles with his hockey stick.

• 50:28Speaker 01

  Just slashing. He's just like a absolute beast on the ice.

• 50:32Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 50:33Speaker 01

  And so this idea of like honor is introduced this season, which is like incredible. And for him to try and figure out like how to, is it to lose honorably or to win dishonorably is a great.

• 50:46Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 50:47Chris Ryan?

  I thought that this was a season that was almost way more about like an idea than it was about a story. Like the story is good. It's somewhat reminiscent of earlier seasons. It's about a traveling EU all-star team, European Union all-star team, which is, you know, kind of funny. Like in the world, kind of.

• 51:05Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 51:06Chris Ryan?

  Political chessboard. It's funny to watch like the evil EU coming. And you're like, I could think of some other guys who are evil. And then the sort of vanishing identity of Canadian and North American hockey culture and how it needs to be reestablished in order to fend their turf. Cause these EU, this EU team is just burning down the fucking building everywhere they go.

• 51:28Speaker 06

  Yeah, I think this is exactly what you're saying about. It's more about an idea and almost something not even philosophical, but like existential, soul deep, right? Because this I loved structurally, and I think the way that the show adapts season over season, real continuity, but slight tweaks that make it feel much bigger and broader and wider and more sweeping. Like we're going wider and deeper at the same time. Think about where we were previously in the show's run. The idea of this team, the Sudbury Blueberry Bulldogs folding inside of the existing no-show was the crisis. And now, Shoresy walks in and Nat's like, the no-show is folded. It's just gone. So we think this season is going to be about watching him coach the Bulldogs. They're, the team doesn't exist because the league doesn't exist.

• 52:09Chris Ryan?

  And it's kind of cool because like for as much as I'm like, oh, it's this utopia and like, these guys don't have financial problems and they just sort of jerk off and go get beers and stuff like that.

• 52:17Speaker 06

  Needs must.

• 52:18Chris Ryan?

  It's fascinating when the outside world.

• 52:22Chris Ryan?

  Shows like how they feel about this scenario because like there's a basketball team that basically moves into the arena overnight and immediately like redoes the locker room.

• 52:33Speaker 06

  Looks great.

• 52:34Chris Ryan?

  They do that.

• 52:35Speaker 01

  And not only that, but they seem to be successful.

• 52:38Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 52:39Speaker 01

  What we're being told in the story of the show is that senior whale shit hockey is unsustainable. And so all these teams in their greater league have folded, except for the Bulldogs and like one other team, I can't remember. And so there is no longer, there's not enough interest. They don't, it's too expensive to have the ice up, so they lose their ice time. All of these things that befall them, to then put them on a stage which is, oh, you're playing worldwide players. It's not even like another team from, you know, Quebec. You're playing like EU professional players, but then to take it out of their thing.

• 53:21Speaker 01

  My favorite move of this whole season was to put the game outside.

• 53:25Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 53:26Speaker 06

  Chills.

• 53:27Speaker 01

  Made me, I was like, this is incredible.

• 53:30Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. When you first see the, and you see the boards of the outdoor.

• 53:33Speaker 06

  Covered in blood.

• 53:34Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 53:36Speaker 06

  From the psycho church league.

• 53:37Chris Ryan?

  But that's another example of like, you know, the women from the church who host the final match. And their take on hockey and hockey players is like, you can never trust them. This always happens. Like when we had the beer league, church league.

• 53:51Speaker 01

  Those guys play like psychos.

• 53:52Chris Ryan?

  They were psychos and you would have to have the cops here every time. And it's sort of a little bit more about like how hockey is being viewed by the modern Canadian person and the, you know, like in a changing world.

• 54:03Speaker 01

  Well, and that's what the whole dynamic, the comparison between the EU and the North American play is that the Europeans played a much more graceful game. Like Shoresy's monologue on Bro Dude. Boy, I mean like better monologues of the year. Shoresy on Bro Dude talking about North American hockey versus Canadian hockey or Billy Bob Thornton in Landman talking about The View.

• 54:34Speaker 06

  I mean.

• 54:36Chris Ryan?

  It's really hard to call it.

• 54:37Speaker 06

  Yeah. Talking about sticking his dick in an omelet. That was also memorable.

• 54:41Speaker 01

  There you go.

• 54:41Chris Ryan?

  You know, and now we, if we do get a, like, well, I guess that wouldn't work because Hulu does Shoresy. But if Shoresy were somehow brought into the Paramount universe.

• 54:50Speaker 01

  Wouldn't that be amazing?

• 54:51Speaker 06

  But we could put Angela in Game of Thrones.

• 54:53Chris Ryan?

  Well, why can't, why can't Ainsley become the Bulldogs' physical therapist?

• 54:59Speaker 01

  I love this. Yeah, absolutely.

• 55:01Speaker 06

  I would watch.

• 55:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:02Speaker 06

  I would watch.

• 55:04Speaker 01

  But there is, like, there's a way in which, so there, there's this whole thing, but that, that, that he's talking about, the North American style of play is dying.

• 55:12Speaker 06

  Right.

• 55:12Speaker 01

  It's dead.

• 55:13Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 55:13Speaker 01

  And, and the EU's coming over here and they're beating us at our own game, basically. And there is like no sense of pride. And that's what it's all about. And I want to be clear, this is my camera.

• 55:24Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 55:25Speaker 01

  I don't like sports. Now, I know that I'm not allowed to say that here on a ringer show.

• 55:35Chris Ryan?

  But it seems like you really wanted to get that off your chest and do it direct to camera.

• 55:38Speaker 01

  I don't follow sports. I'm not, I don't, I'm not a sporto. But I am obsessed with this.

• 55:44Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 55:44Speaker 01

  You know, like, I love this show. And, and so like, I, I'm saying that for the people who are like, I've heard about this show, but I don't, I don't like hockey. I don't like sports. I'm, that's not for me. I could very easily see people thinking it's not for them, but it is very much for you.

• 56:00Chris Ryan?

  Many things, many sports TV shows or movies that I think would deeply satisfy people who have no interest in the sport.

• 56:08Speaker 06

  And who care more about it.

• 56:09Speaker 01

  I think the only one that I would say that fits the bill is Friday Night Lights.

• 56:16Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 56:17Speaker 01

  I think works for everybody.

• 56:18Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 56:18Speaker 01

  You know?

• 56:19Speaker 06

  For many of the same reasons.

• 56:20Chris Ryan?

  Even football fans, like, will be like, but the football in Friday Night Lights is like, preposterous.

• 56:25Speaker 06

  I've got some notes on Schem.

• 56:26Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. Or the preponderance of Hail Marys that Sarah's in.

• 56:29Speaker 06

  For sure. No question.

• 56:30Chris Ryan?

  Um, okay, so we have the EU plotline that goes through the second season. We could talk about Teppo Maki.

• 56:36Speaker 06

  What a character, what a figure.

• 56:38Speaker 01

  Great character.

• 56:38Speaker 06

  They're overrated.

• 56:40Chris Ryan?

  Shoresy basically puts together a team of the no-show All-Stars.

• 56:43Speaker 06

  Yes, it's an enemies to lovers story. They used to be the rivals and they are united in a common goal, which is the restoration of that pride and identity. That's why the outdoor rink is so perfect. It's like the child, the reason that you loved, that you fell in love with the thing in the first place. Like that core germ of it and your relationship to it, like do it there.

• 57:01Speaker 01

  And it felt so, it feels so much more local and real and street level to be like, we're at this outdoor rink. Everybody's in, everybody looks cold. Everything looks like it's brutal.

• 57:13Speaker 06

  They're shoveling up the blood slushies.

• 57:16Chris Ryan?

  It's so good, but the montage essentially, and there's maybe a montage or two, too many this season, but like the montage of them putting together the no show All Stars.

• 57:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:29Chris Ryan?

  And the fucking Freezer Twins on Zoom.

• 57:32Speaker 06

  Killed me.

• 57:32Chris Ryan?

  Was so funny, like the Freezer Twins bit. I don't know what the limit is of like how long I could watch a Freezer Twins scene.

• 57:41Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 57:42Chris Ryan?

  But it might be like two hours.

• 57:44Speaker 01

  Well, I loved that one of them is just absent for part of like a whole scene. He's just taking a piss.

• 57:49Speaker 06

  He had to pee.

• 57:50Speaker 01

  I, I mean, like, it's like, and that's the thing, the show is so good.

• 57:54Chris Ryan?

  I got my cousin's wedding in July.

• 57:57Speaker 06

  July. And I'm like, don't worry, it's gonna be sooner. And he's like, how soon Survivor's about to start? Like, he thinks it might be tonight?

• 58:05Speaker 01

  The Freezer Twins, and then later when they're talking to Mercedes is like, I fucked the fridge twins.

• 58:11Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 58:13Speaker 01

  She thinks they're called the fridge boys or whatever.

• 58:16Speaker 06

  Poor Michael, he's like, I was wondering why they were here.

• 58:19Chris Ryan?

  Uh, so we get the Freezer Twins, we get Shur, uh, we get, uh, the Italian guy, Sylvester.

• 58:25Speaker 01

  Sly Sylvester, who the, the repetition of put a hockey stick in my hand and I become a totally different person. And that, that at least four different people say that exact same line.

• 58:36Speaker 06

  Absolutely.

• 58:37Speaker 01

  In regards to just stuff.

• 58:39Chris Ryan?

  I believe Sylvester is the guy from the 98 Get Bedards fucking number off your back.

• 58:43Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah.

• 58:44Chris Ryan?

  That guy. And then my favorite of of all of them is Delaney. Who is the coke head stripper addict that is also like a dynamite goal scorer. And needs to go through basically a trial of the seven to get himself back on the team. After he shows up late one time, right? Like or oh, he's just getting he's just getting lappies.

• 59:07Speaker 01

  He's just they think he's not but he's not.

• 59:10Speaker 06

  He's on the strip club side instead of the mixer.

• 59:13Chris Ryan?

  Building and Delaney's getting lappies. He's like, these lappies are incredible.

• 59:17Speaker 06

  Shows up later with the two strippers because you hadn't been able to pay. So it's bring them to the locker room, then the phone is ringing. It's so good.

• 59:26Speaker 01

  So good. It's so good because it really is. Again, it's so easy to, I think, get access to a young person's sports story, you know, like young people and what it means to be striving for this thing. It's such a magic trick to make you care about guys in their 40s and 50s and their attempts. To win a sports game that means so clearly so much to them. But that you understand contextually like is preposterous in the life of people this age, you know?

• 59:57Speaker 06

  I love when they're talking about, because Sherzi is learning, the tracksuit, also a grave recurring bit and the slight changes.

• 1:00:06Speaker 01

  This is very winkle.

• 1:00:07Speaker 06

  You know, are we going to be able to get these guys to unite toward this comical and do this thing? And he's like, they'd walk. And then you see immediately that for every single one of them, that's true. They're quitting their job. Shura is under a sink doing a plumbing repair, like Sly is at the yeah. Palmer's shopping wood, Sly is at the restaurant. They're just like, I need to know literally nothing. Other than that this is happening and I need to be a part of it. Gorgeous Gord. Also there, the gyms are back. Possibly my favorite subtle-

• 1:00:36Chris Ryan?

  Jims are prison guards?

• 1:00:37Speaker 06

  Yes. My favorite subtle return joke to something from a prior season was Good, after Sly says something he's not supposed to and Shoresy's trying to figure out who in the locker room said it.

• 1:00:50Speaker 06

  One of the Jims reveals that it was Sly and then Goody's like, "Jims are tattlers."

• 1:00:55Chris Ryan?

  Jims are tattlers?

• 1:00:56Speaker 06

  They are!

• 1:00:56Chris Ryan?

  They've done that before.

• 1:00:58Speaker 02

  Ulcerative colitis and Crohn's disease symptoms don't pause for the moments that matter. That's why understanding your treatment options matters. Discover what's possible with Trinphaya. Guselkumap. Trinphaya is a prescription medicine used to treat adults with moderately to severely active Crohn's disease and adults with moderately to severely active ulcerative colitis. Serious allergic reactions, increased risk of infections, or lower ability to fight them and liver problems may occur. Before treatment, get checked for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or need a vaccine. Talk to your doctor and explore what's possible. Or call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more about Trinphaya and visit trinphyradio.com.

• 1:01:42Speaker 03

  This episode is brought to you by Boar's Head. You know what I love about football season? It's the football, but also the football watching food. And nothing hits like a Boar's Head sandwich when I'm watching a game. Really, any game day sandwich better with Boar's Head. Philly cheesesteak, layer up buttery slider rolls with Boar's Head, London broil roast beef, American white cheese, and picante provolone. Delicious. Then add roasted onions, peppers, and Boar's Head pub-style horseradish sauce. I love horseradish. And you've got the ultimate game day cheesesteak. They've also got a whole lineup of premium meats, cheeses, hummus, and dips, condiments, and more to serve up on game day. Head to your local Boar's Head deli counter to shop now. For game day sandwich inspiration and more, visit boar'shead.com. Boar's Head, committed to craft since 1905.

• 1:02:32Chris Ryan?

  Who actually ate? Did they finish? Was that less than yesterday? The new Petivity Smart Feeder for cats turns everyday meals into meaningful health insights, helping you identify changes in your cat's habits and be more proactive about their health. Plus, you can feed them from anywhere. Take the mystery out of mealtime. Visit petivity.com, P E T I V I T Y dot com slash cat feeder to learn more. For...

• 1:02:57Speaker 06

  Who's your favorite character? Like, do you guys have a power ranking? Who do you... I mean, obviously, this show doesn't function without Shorzy, but like...

• 1:03:04Speaker 01

  But from everybody else...

• 1:03:05Speaker 06

  Everybody else.

• 1:03:06Speaker 01

  So like, I have like a real profound love for Hitch.

• 1:03:10Speaker 06

  Me too.

• 1:03:10Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:11Speaker 01

  And one of the... And maybe the moment that I cried the most, or the hardest...

• 1:03:15Speaker 06

  No question.

• 1:03:15Speaker 01

  That got me the deepest was when Shorzy makes Hitch captain.

• 1:03:20Speaker 06

  I was a wreck.

• 1:03:21Speaker 01

  And Hitch starts to try to talk, but starts to cry, and they all jump on him. Immediately jump on him and hug him. And I was like, like, moved by that moment because there is...

• 1:03:32Speaker 06

  Me too.

• 1:03:33Speaker 01

  An element of the show that is definitely about these men who are truly unable to understand their emotions.

• 1:03:43Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 1:03:43Speaker 01

  In almost every way. None of them have successful relationships, except for now, in these later two seasons, Shoresy, sort of, you know?

• 1:03:51Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:03:52Speaker 01

  Is getting there. This season especially, yes. But it took all of last trials and tribulations of last year for Shoresy to get to...

• 1:03:58Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 1:03:59Speaker 01

  A relationship, you know? And I feel like watching these men grapple with, like, just emotionality is moving.

• 1:04:08Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:08Speaker 01

  You know?

• 1:04:09Speaker 06

  Incredibly so.

• 1:04:09Speaker 01

  And sports allows them to exercise or exorcise those feelings.

• 1:04:14Speaker 06

  I love that. And then the payoff of when they're all going around the who are you? Another quiet genius touch, by the way, the whiteboard behind them. Everybody goes, which we saw at the end of the panel. I gotta chill.

• 1:04:24Speaker 01

  Loved it.

• 1:04:24Speaker 06

  It's like, you know, all the, all the episodes where we've seen the lineup red. I do miss Sanguinet, of course.

• 1:04:29Speaker 01

  I do too.

• 1:04:29Speaker 06

  But it's like, you're going, you're fucking going.

• 1:04:31Chris Ryan?

  Is Sanger in fucking Hamnet? Where is Sanger? Like, how is Sanger...

• 1:04:34Speaker 01

  I wonder if he's on another show.

• 1:04:35Chris Ryan?

  That's what I was curious about.

• 1:04:36Speaker 01

  I meant to look it up before this.

• 1:04:38Chris Ryan?

  They keep referencing him and calling him and stuff.

• 1:04:40Speaker 06

  I like that we hear about him just... I mean, obviously, it's to answer, address the fact that he's not there, but it's like keeping him in the mix so he could come back.

• 1:04:46Chris Ryan?

  Sure.

• 1:04:46Speaker 06

  But then when everyone's doing the who are you?

• 1:04:48Chris Ryan?

  Like Jesse Bloom in industry or something, you know?

• 1:04:50Speaker 06

  I would like Jesse Bloom to return to industry. Hitch's answer is captain of the ship.

• 1:04:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:54Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:55Speaker 06

  It's the most important aspect of his identity, that honor.

• 1:04:59Chris Ryan?

  I think my two favorite characters that are non-Shoresy department would probably be Zeke.

• 1:05:04Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 1:05:04Speaker 06

  Great.

• 1:05:05Chris Ryan?

  Just because Zeke and Shoresy do the same thing every year, which is for five episodes, they say the worst possible things that you could think of to another person. And then there's like one incredible moment of tenderness in the last episode and you're just like, I'm fucking sold.

• 1:05:19Speaker 06

  The dancing this up this season.

• 1:05:21Speaker 01

  Really great.

• 1:05:22Chris Ryan?

  And then.

• 1:05:22Speaker 06

  I, I, goodie.

• 1:05:23Chris Ryan?

  Oh, I was gonna say Jory.

• 1:05:25Speaker 01

  Oh, Jory Jordan?

• 1:05:26Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:27Speaker 06

  I would, I would watch the sports report every day.

• 1:05:30Speaker 01

  I wish they would make like content that is just that.

• 1:05:33Chris Ryan?

  If I could explain it to Bill in a way that he wouldn't just start walking away in the middle of the conversation, I would be like, Jory should be a podcast on the ring. And it's just like Jory interviewing.

• 1:05:43Speaker 06

  Wow.

• 1:05:44Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. Like conconiple, you know?

• 1:05:48Speaker 01

  That's the kind of thing that I think, and I don't even know who or what that was, but like, I think, cause I was watching it this time and I was like, oh, it would be funny if they put out just material that was.

• 1:05:59Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:06:00Speaker 01

  Five minute.

• 1:06:01Chris Ryan?

  Jory talking to Adam Bell. Adam Brody and Kristen Bell.

• 1:06:04Speaker 01

  Yeah. He's just a junket guy?

• 1:06:08Speaker 06

  Uh, really got a kick out of the vlogs into sucking hogs. That was a good one. Turn the phrase, I love goodie.

• 1:06:15Chris Ryan?

  So what are some of the, what are some of the like kind of tertiary plot lines from the season that you found interesting? Like, there's a little bit of, uh, I'll throw some out. So there's the Shoresy's kind of burgeoning media career.

• 1:06:25Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:06:25Chris Ryan?

  That is acting as spokesperson for the Canadian way of hockey, but also like, you know, Anik obviously wants him to be on Bro Dude. There's this weird, I wouldn't say weird, but there's like this Gretzky episode where it's like, a lot of it is like Shoresy's about to start crying because Gretzky and he are gonna do a TV episode together. And then it's just like a FaceTime call.

• 1:06:45Speaker 06

  Is there anyone you guys would say to, like, you could shut an elevator door on my nuts and it would be fine? As Shoresy said to Gretzky, anyone you feel that way about?

• 1:06:52Speaker 01

  And I love, and I, cause it's that.

• 1:06:53Chris Ryan?

  Tom Hardy.

• 1:06:56Speaker 01

  If Tom Hardy was.

• 1:06:58Speaker 06

  I believe you.

• 1:06:59Chris Ryan?

  Doing Bane.

• 1:07:00Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:07:00Chris Ryan?

  And he wanted to shut my nuts.

• 1:07:02Speaker 01

  But somehow on Taboo Island.

• 1:07:04Chris Ryan?

  Only one of your nuts can make it out of the elevator shaft.

• 1:07:08Speaker 01

  Oh, see, oh. Produce your nut.

• 1:07:11Chris Ryan?

  You know?

• 1:07:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:14Chris Ryan?

  I'd do it.

• 1:07:16Speaker 01

  I'd do it. Yeah, no, you told us you would. We believe you. We didn't put this on you. You brought this to the table, my guy.

• 1:07:24Chris Ryan?

  What about you? Proverbial nuts.

• 1:07:27Speaker 06

  Proverbial, uh, boy.

• 1:07:31Chris Ryan?

  And it can't be fictional. It has to be a real person.

• 1:07:33Speaker 06

  A real person.

• 1:07:33Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, it can't be like, oh, Jon Snow, I love you.

• 1:07:36Speaker 06

  Yeah, I was gonna say Ghosts of the Dire Wolf.

• 1:07:38Chris Ryan?

  No, no, it has to be a real person.

• 1:07:39Speaker 06

  Get him back in the mix. The only people I really care about are you guys.

• 1:07:43Speaker 01

  And we would never do that.

• 1:07:44Speaker 06

  Never? No?

• 1:07:45Speaker 01

  Um, I think it would be R I P Anthony Bourdain.

• 1:07:48Chris Ryan?

  Oh, jeez, well, you got me there.

• 1:07:51Speaker 01

  I would absolutely let Bourdain, uh, close an elevator door on my nuts. Um, happily, happily so.

• 1:07:58Chris Ryan?

  Thanks for coming on the watch.

• 1:08:01Chris Ryan?

  Uh, so we have the Gretzky thing in episode two.

• 1:08:04Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 1:08:04Speaker 01

  What I loved about the Gretzky thing is it clearly is so meaningful to him. And I feel like the show is setting you up for this kind of like, it's a rug pull. Oh, at the very last minute, Gretzky's not coming. And, um, Annika and the producer are pissed.

• 1:08:23Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 1:08:23Speaker 01

  And, and they're, they're like really being nasty about Gretzky. It's a bullshit move. It's amateur for him to cancel. They're, they're pissed off. And Shoresy just goes into the most beautiful.

• 1:08:35Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, he's like, can you believe he even thought about?

• 1:08:37Speaker 01

  That he was going to be here is the best moment of my life. That, that, and he, his monologue then is so good. And then not just that moment where he, yeah, I think, you know what I think? I think, you know, what is it? The mute of Gretzky win the game. He, he just starts going on all this stuff is how meaningful and important Gretzky is to him.

• 1:08:58Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:58Speaker 01

  Then he takes this tiny transactional moment that he has almost on TV with Gretzky. And then he gets to FaceTime with Gretzky for, I don't know, half a minute or something. You see him have a little bit of a chat with Gretzky. And then he dines out on that positively.

• 1:09:14Chris Ryan?

  For the entire season.

• 1:09:14Speaker 01

  For the whole season. He uses it to whip up his guys.

• 1:09:18Chris Ryan?

  He wants to have, he wants us to show him like.

• 1:09:21Speaker 01

  Gretzky said, are you guys gonna show, he's watching.

• 1:09:23Chris Ryan?

  Give me something to watch this year.

• 1:09:24Speaker 01

  Are you guys gonna give me something to watch this year?

• 1:09:26Speaker 06

  And he also, that's when he says the thing about like, you know, the hockey, like the hockey community, we've got each other's backs, we stick up for each other. Did you think we were just saying that?

• 1:09:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:09:35Speaker 06

  I love that moment and that line and that idea. And it's basically, that's a trampoline that allows us to get the nat speech at the end about like hockey culture and that community.

• 1:09:44Chris Ryan?

  It's worth noting, people listening to this probably already know this, but strangely enough, out of this TV show has emerged this burgeoning live event vertical of Shoresy, where they are essentially going around North America playing.

• 1:09:59Speaker 06

  Inspired.

• 1:09:59Chris Ryan?

  Ex-NHL stars. We got a chance to go see them in LA.

• 1:10:04Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:10:05Speaker 01

  We went to a hockey game.

• 1:10:06Chris Ryan?

  They're having the time of their fucking lives.

• 1:10:08Speaker 06

  It's wonderful.

• 1:10:08Chris Ryan?

  First of all, there was definitely like 6 to 10,000 people there.

• 1:10:11Speaker 06

  They're a lot. They're a lot.

• 1:10:12Chris Ryan?

  Entirely decked out in Shoresy stuff.

• 1:10:14Speaker 01

  So many people there. It was so funny to watch a hockey game where everybody there is there for Shoresy.

• 1:10:21Speaker 06

  Oh, no question.

• 1:10:21Speaker 01

  And they're playing the LA Kings.

• 1:10:24Chris Ryan?

  Ex-stars.

• 1:10:25Speaker 01

  Alumni league. And I felt like it was really funny because the LA Kings were constantly being booed in their home house.

• 1:10:33Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:33Speaker 01

  Because everybody there was there for the Shoresy team, which was, must have been a very surreal experience.

• 1:10:38Chris Ryan?

  And there was like an element of just like also watching those, these guys actually play hockey or just like, an American TV show does not let Matt Saracen play against the Denver Broncos.

• 1:10:49Speaker 06

  Yeah, like all of these guys have hockey experience.

• 1:10:51Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, but not even, even if you do or don't, it's like the Shoresy taking a puck to the face would derail this television series.

• 1:10:58Speaker 06

  Right.

• 1:10:59Chris Ryan?

  For a year. You know what I mean? Like, you can't.

• 1:11:01Speaker 06

  They would just write it into the plot, man.

• 1:11:02Chris Ryan?

  Probably would.

• 1:11:03Speaker 06

  You know? Goodie misses another tooth, great.

• 1:11:06Chris Ryan?

  I just bring it up because I think that as this show has gone on, it has started to take on this like second life or like another, outside of the show, it is now like. A kind of lifestyle thing that is pretty interesting and I almost felt like this season reflected that. That it was like, the sort of ideals of hockey can live beyond just hockey itself.

• 1:11:28Speaker 01

  Well, and what a cool way to like, build your audience, hopefully is not to just like, you know, like, a lot of people go out there, shows want you to go out there and like, promote somehow and do this or that. But like, for their, for the, for their promotion to just be an exhibition hockey game, which is the thing the show's about, not like the actors being like, here's how we make, let me tell you how we make the show. It is like, oh, how would you like to be inside the show? Do you want to be inside of a Shoresy games? Here we are.

• 1:12:00Chris Ryan?

  The problem with the indoor, they didn't depose any leaders in real life, you know?

• 1:12:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:12:03Speaker 06

  Something to think about.

• 1:12:05Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. What were some other secondary plotlines?

• 1:12:08Speaker 01

  I think one of the best, and it alluded to earlier, is the Jill propositioning Shoresy and Laura, because it plays out over a couple of episodes and it is, it really is this interesting, because we almost, like I said, we almost never see relationships addressed. All the dynamics and relationships that we see in the show are between our teammates. There aren't really-

• 1:12:33Chris Ryan?

  The Jims have slept with these women that these guys were also into.

• 1:12:37Speaker 06

  Right, you have to pick between.

• 1:12:38Speaker 01

  Exactly, and it's, none of them have-

• 1:12:40Chris Ryan?

  Remember when the Jims were like, I looked into her eyes all night, we spoke, you know, next thing I knew, sun was up.

• 1:12:46Speaker 06

  And then Britt picked Jim and he's like, we should do something really amicable and lovely, now she's like, let's go to the strip club.

• 1:12:52Speaker 01

  Which is on the other side of this bar. Really funny, but so, so not only to get into, for last season, for Shoresy to really have to prove himself to Laura to win her, because she knows, as does everybody, hockey players can't be trusted in relationships. They're sluts.

• 1:13:12Speaker 06

  You don't date sluts, you just take them down!

• 1:13:18Speaker 06

  It's a great show.

• 1:13:18Chris Ryan?

  I'm seeing you just with the safety off, you know?

• 1:13:21Speaker 06

  It's a great show. I'm just quoting Canon, you know?

• 1:13:24Speaker 01

  These are the, this is the text of our time.

• 1:13:27Speaker 06

  I agree.

• 1:13:27Chris Ryan?

  Zeke just be like, what do you want slut every time?

• 1:13:30Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 1:13:30Chris Ryan?

  Shoresy walks in.

• 1:13:32Speaker 01

  Incredible.

• 1:13:33Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:33Speaker 01

  So you get a relationship, you build or you build to a relationship at the end of last season.

• 1:13:38Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 1:13:38Speaker 01

  When he runs that marathon, when he gets that, when the letter is read.

• 1:13:42Speaker 06

  Oh, my God.

• 1:13:43Speaker 01

  And then this season, as they're negotiating, you know, like the idea that you would tell me in season five of Shoresy, like he's like, he's negotiating, moving in with his girlfriend and like, like negotiating the dynamics of his relationship with her teenage son.

• 1:13:58Speaker 06

  Right.

• 1:13:59Speaker 01

  I would be like, oh, that sounds like not Shoresy. And it is absolutely Shoresy in the best way. And this thing where Jill propositions Laura and Shoresy and the way they talk it out and the way it gets talked out. And this idea of like, oh, you talk to your friends about me? How do you talk to your friends about me? All of that stuff was, because you talked about it earlier, it is, this is a coming of age story.

• 1:14:25Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:14:25Speaker 01

  In many ways for middle aged men.

• 1:14:27Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:27Speaker 01

  Not just for the kids. The kids are just, when, when you gave us the season of kids, it was like, well, here's what it is.

• 1:14:33Speaker 06

  Right.

• 1:14:33Speaker 01

  In reality, but this is unquestionably what we're doing for these grown ass men.

• 1:14:38Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 1:14:38Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 1:14:39Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. And it's, I, I guess, you know, not to be like, can Shoresy do this, but not like, I do wonder whether or not a season of this show is functional without like a central hockey plot, like of these guys, they have against all odds are going to try this. Obviously, like the emotional highs of this show are way higher when they are going for it in some way like that. But you could tell me this show's going to go for another 13 seasons like Letter Kenny did. And it winds up just being a slice of life of these guys banging around.

• 1:15:10Speaker 01

  Interesting.

• 1:15:10Chris Ryan?

  Sudbury without hockey.

• 1:15:11Speaker 01

  I think it would be harder only because, and I think Letter Kenny really works because you can, episode to episode, do anything.

• 1:15:18Chris Ryan?

  Right.

• 1:15:19Speaker 01

  Shoresy, you really are tied to some forward-moving narrative that is almost always inside of a sports story.

• 1:15:27Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 1:15:28Speaker 01

  And how can you, like, I don't know, does Shoresy work if next season is about Shoresy, for the most part, Laura and her son at home, they're all like negotiating, becoming a nuclear family, and it's really about Shoresy acclimating to life at Bro Dude as a commentator?

• 1:15:47Chris Ryan?

  Well, this is what I was kind of nervous about in season four, and then I was like, oh no, they're gonna do Bad News Bears. You know what I mean? Like, this is amazing. What do you think? Do you think they have to always have, do they, do you think they have to keep coming up with EU All-Star teams to play or something?

• 1:15:59Speaker 06

  I think they will, and that's like the genius of it, because I, my heart stopped when I was, like, I caught up on the first three seasons before season four. And when we got to the, this is the end of Shoresy.

• 1:16:11Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:12Speaker 06

  Part one, I was like panicked. What does that mean? Where are we going from here? And then I remember the first trailer, if memory serves, the first trailer for season four was just tubing.

• 1:16:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:16:24Speaker 06

  And I was like, what is, what is happening? But also, I can't wait.

• 1:16:29Chris Ryan?

  But that's when I was like, is this gonna be Letterkenny? Is this gonna be like, these guys having funny conversations in and around town?

• 1:16:35Speaker 06

  But even the idea of the offseason and Weird Sudbury and like, building toward the choice of like, all season mounts toward Weird Sudbury just to decide not to go, because the Blueberry buddies are more important and that relationship is more substantial ultimately. Hockey was still the backdrop for all of that, so I don't know that it, especially after a season like this, which is a declaration of a soul-bone-deep connection to the proposition of hockey.

• 1:16:57Chris Ryan?

  Right.

• 1:16:58Speaker 06

  I think that it has to be stitched into the fabric of the show. What exactly does that look like and how do they keep to, like, keep evolving?

• 1:17:06Chris Ryan?

  I think they're gonna keep coming up with ways that Hitch, Dolo, Goody, playing hockey. Like, they've, they've done it in real life.

• 1:17:13Speaker 06

  Yeah, those guys have to be there. Like, JJ Sanguinette, as we said, is not on the show anymore. JJ, Frankie JJ is like, not on the show anymore. Characters have come in and out of the universe of the show. I don't, I can't imagine Shoresy without Shoresy, Goody, Hitch, and Dolo. That is difficult for me to think about.

• 1:17:28Speaker 01

  I was just gonna say. I think that's important as well. Because I, I could see a world in which, I will say, there is a show that works, that is... A couple of the guys, Nat and Zigg, and the younger generation where the guys are coaching a teen team.

• 1:17:50Chris Ryan?

  Sure.

• 1:17:51Speaker 01

  You know, that the, the, the sports story maybe isn't for the adults, it's for the younger generation and the adults are plugged into it.

• 1:17:59Speaker 06

  Well, that maybe gets back to what you were just saying, like workshopping the, okay, could it be the, the new nuclear family with Lauren or something like maybe it's, it does his hockey team, the kids hockey team become a part of the story at some point? What's interesting is like, I have also found the Shoresy, Laura Moore, this is the summer I closed on Laura Moore thing to be, um, very genuinely surprising in its longevity and how gripping I found it. Cause initially, my relationship to the core, uh, dynamics of the show is that the OTP, the, the true love story of the show to me is Shoresy and Nat.

• 1:18:27Chris Ryan?

  Right.

• 1:18:28Speaker 06

  Without question.

• 1:18:29Chris Ryan?

  Right.

• 1:18:29Speaker 01

  Oh, interesting.

• 1:18:30Speaker 06

  I don't even mean that romantically.

• 1:18:31Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:18:32Speaker 06

  It's like, that is, that is the deepest love.

• 1:18:35Speaker 01

  Well, they have, they, they, they have a fully shared point of view. They are both relentlessly pursuing greatness in hockey.

• 1:18:44Speaker 06

  Yes, and they can be the most unapologetic and unvarnished version of themselves in front of each other. And there have been so many moments across the five seasons where they sit, where they're sitting next to each other, they're, they can't look at each other, they're turned and one of them just gently puts a hand on the other one's back or something where you're like, wait, is this about to change? And then you realize, I don't, it's not like I need it to change.

• 1:19:03Chris Ryan?

  They'll play with that relationship too, because that moment where you think that he's gonna ask Nat to be the coach with him.

• 1:19:07Speaker 06

  Iconic.

• 1:19:07Chris Ryan?

  I was like, holy shit.

• 1:19:08Speaker 06

  Iconic.

• 1:19:09Chris Ryan?

  And then it was just like, no.

• 1:19:10Speaker 06

  He's like, no.

• 1:19:10Speaker 01

  You've never, you've never been on the ice. Never stepped on the ice.

• 1:19:13Speaker 06

  I've skated my whole life.

• 1:19:14Chris Ryan?

  So, uh, the season ends, like they have this incredible, and we can talk a little bit about the final episode, but they have this incredible moment where they're playing against the EU All-Stars, this outdoor rink outside of a church. The entire town of Sudbury has come out. Um, it's violent, bloody.

• 1:19:30Speaker 01

  They've been told, I think the, one of the best things is they've been told in no uncertain terms.

• 1:19:35Speaker 06

  No fighting.

• 1:19:35Speaker 01

  No fighting by the church, the people, the church that owns the rink. If there's fighting, we're gonna call the cops and we're gonna shut it down. And the minute the whistle is blown to start the game.

• 1:19:45Speaker 06

  Drop the gloves.

• 1:19:46Speaker 01

  They drop the gloves and sticks and a fist, and a gigantic melee breaks out.

• 1:19:50Chris Ryan?

  Yes, and it's a really close game that they wind up losing because the

• 1:19:53Speaker 06

  On a dive.

• 1:19:54Chris Ryan?

  Euros dive, but the larger moral victory is won. And

• 1:20:01Chris Ryan?

  We still don't really have a no show though, right? Like, I mean, so the hockey league itself has collapsed. These guys are all presumably going back to their jobs. So like, yeah, I mean, going forward, I have no doubt that they'll be able to come up with something really, really entertaining for two hours.

• 1:20:14Speaker 01

  Oh, absolutely.

• 1:20:15Chris Ryan?

  You know, and I honestly, no matter, like whatever machine they need to build to make it so that it's like, we need to do this because we need a charity match to save

• 1:20:24Speaker 01

  Great.

• 1:20:24Chris Ryan?

  this community center or whatever.

• 1:20:26Speaker 01

  Great, because

• 1:20:27Chris Ryan?

  I don't care.

• 1:20:28Speaker 01

  The, the, the mechanics of the, of the sports storyline really just help us move forward.

• 1:20:34Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:34Speaker 01

  Uh, and care about stuff, but really what we care about is the, this is, this show is just a masterpiece of character, barely development. You know what I mean? Like so many of these characters are inching forward in terms of their emotional development, but nonetheless.

• 1:20:50Speaker 06

  Arrested development for many.

• 1:20:51Speaker 01

  Moving somewhere, you know? The scenes where repeatedly they're, they're getting their house in order, getting a house in order, boys, you know? It's so funny and all of their shitty relationships.

• 1:21:04Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:04Speaker 01

  And Hitch and his girlfriend thinking they

• 1:21:06Speaker 06

  Hitch and Pam, yeah.

• 1:21:07Speaker 01

  They have the best relationship because when Hitch fucked the hockey mom, she got back at him by fucking him and now they're good.

• 1:21:13Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:13Speaker 01

  So

• 1:21:14Speaker 06

  Great stuff.

• 1:21:15Speaker 01

  It's the best. And so the idea that they can keep playing with these characters, I think is very, like, this is a show that is, to me, always refillable.

• 1:21:26Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:21:26Speaker 01

  Because the characters are just so perfect.

• 1:21:29Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:29Speaker 01

  And, you know, like, yes, it's all gonna come down to a game at some point. Sure. I, but I'm not here for the games.

• 1:21:36Speaker 06

  Right.

• 1:21:36Speaker 01

  You know?

• 1:21:37Chris Ryan?

  I mean, and they're also making it, uh, six episodes a season, almost twice a year at this point.

• 1:21:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:21:44Chris Ryan?

  You know what I mean? So it's like, it's pretty, I don't think we'll, I don't think we'll get season six this season, year, maybe?

• 1:21:51Speaker 01

  I doubt it.

• 1:21:52Chris Ryan?

  I don't think we will, but

• 1:21:53Speaker 01

  I doubt it.

• 1:21:54Chris Ryan?

  Um, I didn't get a chance to talk to you about Heat Rivalry, really.

• 1:21:57Speaker 06

  I, I mean, let's fucking go.

• 1:21:59Chris Ryan?

  Uh, and we don't have to go nuts on it, but Heat Rivalry shares

• 1:22:03Speaker 01

  Jacob Tierney is like an essential part of Letter Kenny.

• 1:22:06Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 1:22:07Speaker 01

  You know, both on camera and off, and has been like a part of that world forever.

• 1:22:12Chris Ryan?

  And the sort of emergence of Tierney coming out and making Heat Rivalry, which is not only a successful adaptation of a wildly beloved, um, piece of fiction, but To make it in such a different way than the way the Kiesewitz shows have been made in the past, which is like incredibly static, incredibly flat, everything is about like jokes building verbally rather than through sight gags or anything like that.

• 1:22:38Speaker 06

  Right.

• 1:22:38Chris Ryan?

  It's just, it was pretty shocking. That's the only thing that was shocking about Heat of Rivalry. I know what you're thinking. Um, what, I mean, just, what did you think of Heat of Rivalry as a series? And do you ever, do you, do you see any connective tissue between the two things?

• 1:22:52Speaker 06

  Um, I, I think that they are quite different shows. Obviously, I love them both.

• 1:22:58Chris Ryan?

  Although both about getting into exotic positions.

• 1:23:01Speaker 06

  Absolutely. About understanding who you are and embracing that in full and surrounding yourself with other people who embrace that in full. Um, I thought Heat of Rivalry was wonderful. I mean, I loved the whole season. I thought it really evolved, you know, over the course of the first couple of episodes. You're like, this is sexy. This is fun. Uh, third episode, of course, we get the, are we spoiling things? I can speak in generalities. We get, you know, an episode centered around different characters other than the main characters. And it was very shocking, but in an incredibly energizing way where you're like, I don't really totally know what I'm watching, but I'm very invested in this. Episode four, I think is when you realize you're watching just, and, and episode three, but you're back with Ilya and Shane in episode four. You're like, we're watching prestige TV. This is just exceptional. I thought episode five is one of the best episodes of TV of

• 1:23:43Speaker 06

  the year. And I thought that the Shane, Ilya conversation where Ilya is speaking in Russian and we're just watching Shane's face was one of the best TV scenes of the year. And in the finale, I was sobbing like a fucking baby the entire time. I, I loved it.

• 1:23:56Speaker 01

  I think the thing that's clear about Letter Kenny and Shoresy is, and I think this is Jared Kiesewitz's whole thing, is I'm interested in excavating small town life. And life, the, the life that are the people, it used to be called Letter Kenny Problems. And it was all about the problems of the people of Letter Kenny, small town problems and how you settle them, usually with fistfights, you know? And that's, if there's fighting in Shoresy, there's a million times more fighting in Letter Kenny.

• 1:24:27Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:24:28Speaker 01

  Because Wayne, Jared Kiesewitz's character, is the toughest guy.

• 1:24:33Speaker 01

  In Letter Kenny.

• 1:24:34Chris Ryan?

  Right.

• 1:24:34Speaker 01

  And so whenever there's a new tough guy who shows up, he has to come and fight Wayne. Or they have to go and fight some guy who did something. So the number of montage, seven minute long fight scenes in Letter Kenny is enormous.

• 1:24:49Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:49Speaker 01

  Absolutely crazy. And so to me, Heated Rivalry is taking all of those small town things and blowing them up.

• 1:24:59Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 1:24:59Speaker 01

  You know, and putting them on a much larger stage and much larger, like, everything gets bigger. Everything becomes, it's not, it's, but still concerning itself with small character things.

• 1:25:10Chris Ryan?

  I think that the lesson from the two shows ultimately is like, it's just much more interesting to watch TV about characters that aren't easily pinned down.

• 1:25:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:25:19Chris Ryan?

  You know, like you could watch a version of Shoresy, and this kind of goes back to the first episode of the season five, where you're like, the easy thing to do would have Shoresy bust Jack's balls, make fun of him.

• 1:25:31Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:25:32Chris Ryan?

  Like, and then be like, you know, like, I'll coach you because you don't understand. There's so many like logical, instead he shows this incredibly tender side. There are so many moments in Heated Rivalry where you're like, I got it. I know where this is going. I know what this guy is like. I know what that guy is like. And they show you a completely different side. And that goes all the way down to like, Ilya's the girl who lives with Ilya. You know what I mean?

• 1:25:54Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah, sure.

• 1:25:54Chris Ryan?

  Like, you know, or like, uh, yeah, like, it's just, there's so many different wrinkles to all these different.

• 1:26:00Speaker 06

  Shane's conversation with his mother at the end.

• 1:26:02Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, like you expect when the parents find out, when Shane's parents find out, you're like, oh shit, this is gonna be it. And they're like, huh, okay.

• 1:26:08Speaker 01

  Both of them do an incredible job servicing discovery and surprise.

• 1:26:13Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 1:26:14Chris Ryan?

  Sure.

• 1:26:14Speaker 01

  In ways that you think you know what kind of a story you're inside of. And you're like, oh, that, I'm genuinely surprised by that. And isn't that, especially for people like us who spend all of our time inside of television, to be able to be surprised by a thing is very rare.

• 1:26:33Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:34Speaker 01

  Or to be like, oh, that did not happen.

• 1:26:37Chris Ryan?

  Or for, and for a show to not make the surprise its entire raison d'etre, to be like, you thought it was gonna. If I could be like this.

• 1:26:44Speaker 01

  You idiot.

• 1:26:44Chris Ryan?

  Dumbass, there's more than one silo.

• 1:26:47Speaker 01

  Well, that's the thing is, it's not.

• 1:26:48Speaker 06

  Spoiler, bro.

• 1:26:49Speaker 01

  It's not a rug pull. That, I think that's such a good point. It's never interested in, in a, it being a rug pull.

• 1:26:56Chris Ryan?

  No, it's people are complicated.

• 1:26:57Speaker 01

  Or calling attention to it. It's that people are making choices that you're like, oh, of course, that is a choice that I just, that I don't think narrative television would always make in this way.

• 1:27:07Speaker 06

  And of course, the relationship that each story has to hockey, even though they are both in some way a hockey show, is radically different. Shane and Ily are the two best players of their generation.

• 1:27:18Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 1:27:18Speaker 06

  This is not whale shit hockey. This is Montreal and Boston, the top picks in the draft, and they've won Stanley Cups and they've won MVPs.

• 1:27:25Chris Ryan?

  And generationally, like on the others, like, you know, like Sid and, and yeah.

• 1:27:29Speaker 06

  Yes, exactly. And so then it's like, okay, well, if the rapper that defines my life and my public persona and my earnings and my endorsement deals, if I didn't feel like I could be myself inside of that, what would that mean? Their relationship to the sport is different from each other, of course, but certainly very different from all of our blueberry Bulldogs. So I think we get, we just get way less hockey in heated rivalry. Like it, it, it doesn't function as a, a sports show quite in the same way that shoresy does. Like obviously we have some scenes on the ice and some scenes in the locker room, but much more to establish like the position that they each hold, their stature inside of the game. And then how that influences the journey.

• 1:28:14Speaker 01

  A lot of position.

• 1:28:14Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, they sure do.

• 1:28:15Speaker 06

  I mean, you, when you were saying pinned down earlier, I've been waiting, but here we go at last.

• 1:28:20Chris Ryan?

  Um, they also share Wolf Parade, which they.

• 1:28:24Speaker 01

  Oh, yes.

• 1:28:24Speaker 06

  This, I felt bad about because I spoiled this for you.

• 1:28:26Chris Ryan?

  It's okay. I think.

• 1:28:27Speaker 06

  I thought you had finished the season and I texted you and I was like Wolf Parade back and you're like.

• 1:28:31Chris Ryan?

  Haven't gotten that one.

• 1:28:32Speaker 06

  What the fuck? I felt really bad.

• 1:28:34Chris Ryan?

  They both drop Wolf Parade and I, I couldn't help but wonder, uh, Carrie Bradshaw style, if.

• 1:28:39Speaker 06

  I love when you do that.

• 1:28:40Chris Ryan?

  It was Jared Kiesewetter saying, tip of the, tip of the cat, Jake.

• 1:28:44Speaker 01

  And just like that.

• 1:28:45Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:45Speaker 01

  And just like that, a Wolf Parade needle drop.

• 1:28:48Chris Ryan?

  Jumped right way up.

• 1:28:49Speaker 06

  Was that your favorite needle drop of the season? Obviously in heated rivalry, yes, but of course. The Van Morrison.

• 1:28:54Chris Ryan?

  Uh.

• 1:28:55Speaker 01

  Van Morrison got me.

• 1:28:56Speaker 06

  Oh, man.

• 1:28:56Chris Ryan?

  There's nothing better in the world than the amount of, uh, Armon Van Helden that they just, like, the amount of UK garage and house songs that they're just like, yeah, this is just, we're doing it.

• 1:29:07Speaker 01

  One of the things that I'm curious, what you said, because you like, you binged all three seasons before, for is like, I think one of the, um, visual things that you have to get used to with, and it happened in Letter Kenny and with Shoresy, is for a show that is remarkably short in length per episode, an enormous amount of almost every episode is just a music montage.

• 1:29:32Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:29:33Speaker 01

  That is either, in this season, the strip club, it's the hockey games, it's the fistfights.

• 1:29:39Speaker 06

  The bras, yeah.

• 1:29:40Speaker 01

  It is long, long.

• 1:29:41Chris Ryan?

  The celebration of them winning the no-show, I think, is like a full episode, right? It's like of a montage, basically.

• 1:29:48Speaker 01

  And like, full song.

• 1:29:49Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:29:50Speaker 01

  You can listen to the whole song play out.

• 1:29:52Speaker 06

  Oh, yes.

• 1:29:53Speaker 01

  Um, there, in Letter Kenny, there are oftentimes fights, which are incredibly choreographed.

• 1:29:59Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:59Speaker 01

  And like, so satisfying to watch, but you're like, I think I've been watching this fight for four full minutes.

• 1:30:05Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:05Speaker 01

  Of this 20-minute episode.

• 1:30:07Chris Ryan?

  I thought I'd notice it mostly on this season where I was like, there are a couple of Shoresy episodes that are, it's like, there's 12 minutes of acting.

• 1:30:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:30:14Chris Ryan?

  And the rest of it is like a montage with like a house anthem.

• 1:30:17Speaker 06

  That is, of course, a difference between the two shows, too. There are a number of wonderful performances in Shoresy, but just the ethos, the energy is so different. Where, you know, you're watching just Kiso do something, I think, kind of god-tier and astonishing. A lot of the people in a scene in Shoresy are like, people who played hockey well enough to be in Shoresy and are learning how to find that comedic rhythm. And then, across the seasons, this is really advanced. Like, I watched Heat at Rivalry, and I'm like, Connor Story is gonna be one of the most famous people alive.

• 1:30:45Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:30:45Speaker 06

  You know, Hudson Williams is becoming a sensation for a reason. Like, so that, they're very different, but I do love this, uh, kind of shared thread across them. And I, you know, I just, what a time to be on the rink.

• 1:30:57Chris Ryan?

  I, I love the thread that we share.

• 1:30:59Speaker 01

  Oh, it makes me so happy.

• 1:31:01Chris Ryan?

  I will re-convey us.

• 1:31:03Speaker 06

  What will we pod about next?

• 1:31:03Chris Ryan?

  I mean, like, I could keep going, but like, I feel like that's a good place to end. We will hopefully find something new in between now and the next season.

• 1:31:10Speaker 01

  If we don't, we're fools.

• 1:31:12Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. Jason Mantzoukas, thank you so much for coming by.

• 1:31:15Speaker 01

  Chris, an absolute delight. Mal, just the best.

• 1:31:18Speaker 06

  Thrill of my life to be here with you.

• 1:31:20Chris Ryan?

  Thanks to Kai, thanks to Kai. Andy and I will be back on Monday. I think the, it's a pretty full dance card for Monday because we have some Paramount Warner Brothers Netflix post-game stuff. We have DTF St. Louis.

• 1:31:32Speaker 01

  We, okay, incredible. I'm all in on this show.

• 1:31:37Speaker 06

  I can't wait.

• 1:31:38Speaker 01

  Steve Conrad is the greatest.

• 1:31:40Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 1:31:41Speaker 01

  Steve Conrad, my favorite patriot, Perpetual Grace Limited, Ultra City Smith.

• 1:31:46Chris Ryan?

  And was the original showrunner on Seven Kingdoms.

• 1:31:49Speaker 01

  Yes, he was. He's a really, he wrote the first adaptation of The Duncan Egg Book. And I've only seen one episode of DTF St. Louis, but I think it's incredible. I'm so stoked for it. This is the other thing, sorry. I wanna, I'm gonna say this because I said it on this show. I told you about Shoresy. You slept on it. The show that I feel like everybody is sleeping on right now.

• 1:32:12Chris Ryan?

  Is it The Fairies?

• 1:32:13Speaker 01

  Is Dark Winds.

• 1:32:14Chris Ryan?

  Oh, fuck dude, can I, can I tell you something?

• 1:32:16Speaker 01

  If, I don't understand what is going on. You guys are gonna fucking lose it.

• 1:32:21Chris Ryan?

  I know. And then the last time this happened, it was Mr. Inbetween. People were just like, what's your fucking problem?

• 1:32:26Speaker 01

  It's good.

• 1:32:27Chris Ryan?

  Dark Winds is just the show that I've been like, I, I just can't abide being 30 hours behind on this, you know, or whatever it is.

• 1:32:35Speaker 01

  I understand.

• 1:32:36Chris Ryan?

  But I saw that they were doing a 70s LA episode coming up and I was like, damn dude.

• 1:32:42Speaker 01

  This season has Titus Welliver in it. FYI, Bosch is in the show.

• 1:32:47Speaker 06

  Bosch Hive Rise.

• 1:32:48Speaker 01

  So get involved. But regardless, each of these seasons has been phenomenal.

• 1:32:55Chris Ryan?

  So first season, you would start with the first.

• 1:32:57Speaker 01

  Incredible. Just start with, like, and honestly, you kind of don't need to. Like, each of them is a contained singular story. Each one is one case.

• 1:33:06Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 1:33:07Speaker 01

  Or a couple of interrelated cases. It's not like one big, I mean, there is some larger.

• 1:33:12Speaker 06

  Character continuity across the seasons.

• 1:33:13Speaker 01

  There is absolutely character continuity, but each, each, they're based on books and each one is basically one case that falls into.

• 1:33:20Chris Ryan?

  Have you ever started a show like midway through?

• 1:33:23Speaker 06

  I would die.

• 1:33:24Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:24Speaker 06

  I would.

• 1:33:24Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:25Speaker 06

  I'm actually not capable of doing that.

• 1:33:27Speaker 01

  I don't think you should, but you cannot recommend it enough.

• 1:33:31Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 1:33:31Speaker 01

  As not just like, not just phenomenal, but consistently phenomenal.

• 1:33:36Chris Ryan?

  Okay. You, do you have a recommendation for things that you don't talk about on House of R that you'd love to get off your chest?

• 1:33:42Speaker 06

  I think this is a great time to invest in the Baltimore Orioles.

• 1:33:44Speaker 01

  Oh, boy.

• 1:33:45Chris Ryan?

  Oh, my Christ.

• 1:33:46Speaker 01

  I'm just, I'm only doing this because I'm looking at my Shoresy notes.

• 1:33:49Chris Ryan?

  Do you feel like?

• 1:33:49Speaker 01

  Cause I made Shoresy notes.

• 1:33:50Speaker 06

  This is the year. They're gonna win the World Series.

• 1:33:51Chris Ryan?

  All right. I'd like to have you come on maybe for a spring training episode with me and Andy. We can talk about the futility of cheering for baseball teams outside of Los Angeles Dodgers.

• 1:33:58Speaker 06

  That would be great. Hence, I will not be rooting for the Dodgers.

• 1:34:00Chris Ryan?

  So Andy and I are gonna do DTF St. Louis. We'll probably hit Paradise. I think the Top Chef episode is up on Peacock, apparently.

• 1:34:07Speaker 06

  Okay.

• 1:34:07Chris Ryan?

  The first episode of the season.

• 1:34:08Speaker 06

  You guys talking some Survivor?

• 1:34:10Chris Ryan?

  No.

• 1:34:10Speaker 06

  Basically, all I think about right now is Survivor.

• 1:34:12Speaker 01

  Really?

• 1:34:13Speaker 06

  Season 50. Yes.

• 1:34:14Speaker 01

  That's all I think, but that's how I am with Alone.

• 1:34:17Speaker 06

  That's a thing you've loved for a long time.

• 1:34:19Chris Ryan?

  Where they get dropped in the middle of nowhere?

• 1:34:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:34:20Chris Ryan?

  But not naked?

• 1:34:21Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:34:22Speaker 06

  It's not naked. Naked and afraid.

• 1:34:23Speaker 01

  That's Naked and Afraid. This is like real deal. Like you are alone. There's no camera crew. You are the camera crew. You don't, and people, and the last person there wins either half a million dollars or a million dollars, and they're out there alone for months.

• 1:34:36Chris Ryan?

  Oh, my God.

• 1:34:37Speaker 01

  It is. So you're watching people at first figure out how to survive. What's gonna be my food source? Where am I gonna get water from? I need to build a shelter. Where should that be? And then once those, once enough people have gotten that far, and some people have dropped out, you're watching people lose their minds. Because they are alone.

• 1:34:55Chris Ryan?

  That's cool.

• 1:34:55Speaker 01

  For weeks and weeks and weeks at a time. It's incredible.

• 1:34:58Chris Ryan?

  Do you think you could do it?

• 1:35:00Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:35:00Chris Ryan?

  The isolation.

• 1:35:01Speaker 01

  Oh, oh, yes.

• 1:35:03Speaker 06

  Yes, you definitely could do that part. Come on.

• 1:35:05Speaker 01

  That part, that part I got covered.

• 1:35:07Chris Ryan?

  You just couldn't build a fire and stuff like that.

• 1:35:09Speaker 01

  I, I would have a lot of trouble with the like actual like foraging and getting food.

• 1:35:14Speaker 06

  Do they let you bring your glasses? You could start a fire with those?

• 1:35:16Speaker 01

  You can bring 10 items.

• 1:35:18Speaker 06

  Okay.

• 1:35:19Speaker 01

  I could, I, so one of the, I could start a fire. I could get fires going.

• 1:35:21Chris Ryan?

  10 packs of cigarettes.

• 1:35:22Speaker 01

  And then 10 packs of bar bars.

• 1:35:28Speaker 06

  You were a Camel guy, right?

• 1:35:29Chris Ryan?

  I was, yeah.

• 1:35:30Speaker 06

  I felt so proud of myself yesterday in this very office. Our colleague, Jack Wilson, asked, was Chris an American Spirits guy?

• 1:35:36Chris Ryan?

  No.

• 1:35:36Speaker 06

  And I said, Camel.

• 1:35:37Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, Camel.

• 1:35:38Speaker 06

  And he's like, are you sure? And I said, this is a friendship test, and I feel sure.

• 1:35:41Chris Ryan?

  It was Winston's, uh, very, you know, just a guy came into a bar I was working at, and he was like, do you sell cigarettes? And we said, no. And he was like, I work for Winston. Next time somebody asks you that, will you give them a free complimentary pack? And we said, absolutely, Mr. Winston.

• 1:35:56Speaker 06

  Sounds like a Mad Men episode.

• 1:35:57Chris Ryan?

  And we took all those cigarettes home and smoked them. And then I became addicted to cigarettes and then moved into Camels, because I was dating a girl who smoked Camels.

• 1:36:06Speaker 01

  Oh, okay.

• 1:36:07Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:07Speaker 06

  All of those tracks for me.

• 1:36:08Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:36:09Speaker 06

  All of it. Wow.

• 1:36:10Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, and then I never stopped. And then I stopped. Now I still have nicotine problems.

• 1:36:13Speaker 06

  Um, yeah, okay.

• 1:36:14Speaker 01

  Were you ever a smoker?

• 1:36:16Speaker 06

  I have literally never had a cigarette in my life. But you know what I've loved? A cigar. I've loved a cigar over the years.

• 1:36:23Speaker 01

  Oh, that's a...

• 1:36:24Speaker 06

  I've loved a cigar over the years.

• 1:36:25Chris Ryan?

  I think if you started smoking, it would be an incredible wrinkle for you.

• 1:36:29Speaker 06

  I don't, I don't know if the lungs can do it, man.

• 1:36:31Speaker 01

  It would be, it would be really funny if you just became not just a smoker, but like an in-studio smoker.

• 1:36:36Chris Ryan?

  And like Dennis Leary style.

• 1:36:38Speaker 01

  And people knew that, like, oh, if you're gonna guest on House of R, like, now he's gonna smoke throughout.

• 1:36:44Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:44Speaker 06

  Well, what if I had like a pipe? I used to like to smoke pipe.

• 1:36:47Speaker 01

  I thought about pipe.

• 1:36:48Chris Ryan?

  Who are the people in Hollywood who have

• 1:36:50Speaker 06

  Wear a tweed jacket?

• 1:36:51Chris Ryan?

  indoor smoking rights?

• 1:36:52Speaker 01

  Sean Penn.

• 1:36:53Speaker 06

  That makes sense.

• 1:36:54Chris Ryan?

  DiCaprio vapes everywhere, right?

• 1:36:55Speaker 01

  Sure. Sean Penn, I think, can smoke literally.

• 1:36:57Chris Ryan?

  Like, Sean Penn lit up at like the Globes, right?

• 1:37:00Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:37:01Chris Ryan?

  And that's it?

• 1:37:03Speaker 01

  Barack Obama?

• 1:37:05Chris Ryan?

  He could, but even Barack would step outside.

• 1:37:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, I guess he would step outside.

• 1:37:09Chris Ryan?

  There's all those shots of him, like, oh, God.

• 1:37:10Speaker 01

  You're right, you're right, you're right.

• 1:37:11Speaker 06

  What would my brand be?

• 1:37:12Chris Ryan?

  Well, like...

• 1:37:13Speaker 06

  Of cigarettes?

• 1:37:14Chris Ryan?

  Indian Creek, like, um, Kate from Sicario.

• 1:37:18Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:37:19Speaker 06

  Oh, shit. Sicario on your mind?

• 1:37:20Speaker 01

  Not like a, not like a Virginia Slims. Not like a skinny cigarette.

• 1:37:24Chris Ryan?

  That would be interesting.

• 1:37:26Speaker 01

  I think Johnny Depp gets to smoke those gross.

• 1:37:30Chris Ryan?

  Like cloves?

• 1:37:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, those gross cigarettes he smokes.

• 1:37:33Chris Ryan?

  Inside, though?

• 1:37:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:37:35Chris Ryan?

  Have you ever been on set with somebody who smoked cigarettes in your face, like, like while on set?

• 1:37:39Speaker 01

  Oh, wow. Probably. I'm trying to think who Johnny. I did do something with Johnny Depp and he was smoking constantly. And it was disgusting.

• 1:37:50Speaker 01

  But I'm trying to think of anybody who was like, like, like in a way that was like interruptive to the process.

• 1:37:57Chris Ryan?

  Well, it's not even interruptive as much as it's just such a flex. It's like.

• 1:38:00Speaker 06

  You find it aspirational. I mean, this is one of your great hottest take episodes.

• 1:38:03Chris Ryan?

  It ruins the indoors.

• 1:38:04Speaker 01

  Do you have an age where you're like at a, when I turn 70?

• 1:38:09Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, brother.

• 1:38:10Speaker 01

  I'm gonna start smoking all the time because.

• 1:38:12Chris Ryan?

  And I'll tell you what, it's not gonna be smoking that I get into.

• 1:38:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:38:15Chris Ryan?

  You know what I mean?

• 1:38:15Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:38:16Speaker 06

  Heroin?

• 1:38:16Speaker 01

  You're going black tar, black tar heroin?

• 1:38:18Chris Ryan?

  Like injecting.

• 1:38:20Speaker 01

  Straight, straight to the vein, baby.

• 1:38:22Speaker 06

  What's the age?

• 1:38:24Speaker 06

  No comment.

• 1:38:25Speaker 01

  As you get older.

• 1:38:26Speaker 06

  No comment.

• 1:38:26Chris Ryan?

  Let's see how the world works out. You know what I mean? If it feels like imminent doom is there? Well, we like, I might just start being on ketamine while I'm on podcast all the time.

• 1:38:34Speaker 06

  I'm just gonna stick with edibles, I think. But you do you, man.

• 1:38:37Chris Ryan?

  Thank you so much for coming in. Thank you so much for doing this. Thank you to Kai.

• 1:38:40Speaker 06

  Thanks for inviting me.

• 1:38:40Chris Ryan?

  Thank you to Kai. See you guys on Monday. Oh, we'll also have some industry mailbag questions.

• 1:38:44Speaker 06

  Oh, hell yeah.

• 1:38:45Chris Ryan?

  Um, talk to you soon.

• 1:38:55Speaker 01

  This is US Bank's Cozy Cash Formations with your chief financial playmaker, Fernando Mendoza. You are worthy of financial security. Budgeting is not restriction, it's freedom. You are smart. You are capable. You are giving your money a purpose. You are learning the language of saving, of growing. Now streaming. Member FDIC, copyright 2026 US Bank. This episode is brought to you by Whole Foods Market. Fall is here and Whole Foods Market has everything you need for cozy meals, seasonal treats, and easy entertaining. Elevate your hearty dishes with tasty bone-in beef short ribs or New York strip steaks with no added growth hormones or antibiotics.

• 1:39:40Speaker 01

  And as the fall evenings draw in, why not get ahead of cold season with immunity shots, herbal teas, lasages, and supplements? Make sure you look for sales throughout the month. Shop fall flavors with higher standards at Whole Foods Market.