War Was the Easy Part | Eduardo Garduno

Eduardo Garduno recounts his path from a turbulent childhood in Southern California to the 75th Ranger Regiment, with deployments to Afghanistan, Syria, and Iraq and combat against ISIS. He also opens up about his difficult transition out of the military, becoming a police officer, struggles with PTSD and alcohol, and the long road toward recovery and writing his memoir. Follow Eduardo here: https://www.instagram.com/eduardo__garduno/ Today's Sponsors: GhostBed ⬇️ https://www.ghostbed.com/house FOR 10% off! Cash App ⬇️ Download Cash App Today: https://click.cash.app/ui6m/in49dyw5 #CashAppPod As a Cash App partner, I may earn a commission when you sign up for a Cash App account. Cash App is a financial services platform, not a bank. Banking services provided by Cash App’s bank partner(s). Bitcoin services provided by Block, Inc. For additional information, see the Bitcoin disclosures For ad free video and audio and access to live streams... JOIN OUR PATREON! https://www.patreon.com/c/TheTeamHouse To help support the show and for all bonus content including: -live shows and asking guest questions -ad free audio and video -early access to shows -Access to ALL bonus segments with our guests Subscribe to our Patreon! ⬇️ https://www.patreon.com/TheTeamHouse ___________________________________________________ GRAB JACK'S NEW BOOK "THE MOST DANGEROUS MAN" ⬇️⬇️⬇️⬇️⬇️ https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/803651/the-most-dangerous-man-by-jack-murphy/paperback/ Subscribe to the new EYES ON podcast here:⬇️ https://www.youtube.com/@EyesOnGeopoliticsPod/featured Jack Murphy's book "We Defy: The Lost Chapters of Special Forces History" ⬇️ https://www.amazon.com/We-Defy-Chapters-Special-History-ebook/dp/B0DCGC1N1N/ Or make a one time donation at: ⬇️ https://ko-fi.com/theteamhouse Social Media: ⬇️ The Team House Instagram: https://instagram.com/the.team.house?utm_medium=copy_link The Team House Twitter: https://twitter.com/TheTeamHousePod Jack’s Instagram: https://instagram.com/jackmcmurph?utm_medium=copy_link Jack’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/jackmurphyrgr?s=21 Team House Discord: ⬇️ https://discord.gg/wHFHYM6 "Karl Casey @ White Bat Audio" 00:00 – Start 01:13 – Growing Up Poor in Southern California 09:10 – Early Hatred of Police & Growing Up Around Crime 16:44 – Fighting, Anger & Becoming a Troublemaker 28:02 – Getting Arrested for Shoplifting 37:17 – High School, Rebellion & His Brother’s Drug Business 51:18 – His Brother Gets Busted & Police Raid the Family Home 1:00:20 – Deciding to Join the Military 1:06:20 – Accidentally Signing an Option 40 Contract 1:10:54 – Basic Training, a Dear John Letter & Finding Motivation 1:15:33 – Surviving RASP 1:19:34 – Arriving at 2nd Ranger Battalion 1:27:22 – First Deployment to Afghanistan 1:34:33 – Going to Ranger School 1:41:48 – Recycles, Peer Evaluations & Eight Months at Ranger School 1:53:28 – Finally Earning the Ranger Tab 1:57:29 – Deploying to Syria as a Ranger Team Leader 2:01:22 – Dropping Mortars on ISIS 2:03:14 – When the War Suddenly Became Real 2:07:10 – Javelins, Close Calls & Nearly Getting Shot 2:10:29 – Taking Incoming Mortar Fire in Syria 2:19:09 – Returning Home & Considering Delta Force 2:21:05 – Deployment to Iraq With Delta Force 2:25:36 – Ranger Shenanigans & Getting in Trouble Overseas 2:34:14 – Leaving the Army & Struggling With Alcohol 2:38:15 – Becoming a Police Officer 2:48:05 – PTSD, Police Culture & Trying to Change the System 2:54:37 – Refusing to Give Cops Special Treatment 3:01:18 – His First Police Chase Ends in a Rollover 3:09:09 – Leaving the Police Department 3:11:09 – Recovery, PTSD & Hitting Rock Bottom 3:15:18 – Checking Himself Into a VA Psychiatric Ward 3:20:19 – Intensive Therapy & Searching for Something That Worked 3:21:46 – TMS Treatment & Beginning to Heal 3:23:35 – Writing His Memoir as a Way to Understand His Life 3:24:15 – Marijuana-Induced Psychosis & Another Psychiatric Hospitalization 3:31:41 – Finding a Treatment That Finally Helped 3:32:28 – The Demons Within & Looking Forward 3:33:28 – Closing Thoughts Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-team-house--5960890/support https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-team-house--5960890/support?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:34Speaker 01

  Please help us, they're everywhere. We think they're murder hornets. 911 Nashville returns. What's a homicide detective doing here? Three bodies on the ground. With emergencies of biblical proportions. Sin swarms upon you and upon your people. That's one of the plagues of the Bible. And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville. Brian Philippi joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 1:01Jack Murphy?

  Hey guys, welcome to the team house. My name's Jack Murphy and I'm here with today's guest, Eduardo Garduno. He is a Ranger that served in 2nd Ranger Battalion, was a mortar guy, 11 Charlie, did deployments to Afghanistan, Syria, Iraq. I just read your unpublished memoir, Eduardo, and it's a pretty compelling story. You had a pretty wild upbringing and a pretty, you know, I mean, we can say a pretty tough transition, I think, out of the military into the police force, into the private sector. So we'll talk about all this stuff during the interview, but Eduardo, thank you for joining us and, you know, being willing to share your story.

• 1:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, happy to be here, you know, just tell my point of view and if it helps people along the way, helps them get the resources they need, then that's all I'm really shining for, you know?

• 1:53Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, no, that's great. Well, let's, uh, let's start at the beginning. Tell us a little bit about like your family and what your upbringing was like.

• 2:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, it was on paper, it's a lot worse than what it sounds, but as a kid, you know, it's, it's what I was used to. My dad was an immigrant from Mexico. At five years old, he was working fields and he had the mentality through his whole career of landscaping and just that Mexican mentality of I'm going to be the provider. I'm going to do everything in my power to work six days a week and just that mentality really left a lot of open doors for me just to do whatever I wanted as a kid, you know? Both parents are always at work. My wife did your typical housekeeping and my dad did landscaping and between the two of them, you know, they were too busy working to actually take care of me.

• 2:44Speaker 03

  So I was just left alone to my own vices and unfortunately I was surrounded with all the wrong people, so I just leaned into that.

• 2:51Jack Murphy?

  You had a big family too, right? A lot of brothers and sisters.

• 2:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, there's such a huge age gap that only my older brother is the one, like my older brother and my little, my first sister are really the only ones that I really consider brothers. The rest are more like an uncle figure, like they're, they're so young.

• 3:08Jack Murphy?

  Oh, I got you.

• 3:10Speaker 03

  They're like 10 years old right now is like, yeah, I'm their brother, but I don't really know them like that. The only person I really know is my brother who I grew up with and he, he wasn't exactly your typical role model.

• 3:23Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, I mean, in, in your book, what really came through, I thought was interesting was like how hard a worker your dad was and like, he was like really just like grindstone all day.

• 3:35Jack Murphy?

  And trying to do the, the best he possibly could for the family. But at the same time, it sounded like he had his own misgivings too, uh, at certain points.

• 3:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think alcohol was his biggest coping mechanism. He drank until the age of 41 and that was most of my childhood, unfortunately. And then it was just a lot of him drinking, me realizing we're poor and we don't have food and, you know, he has $20, what's he going to spend it on? Alcohol or buying us more food or buying us shoes, buying us clothes? Well, it was alcohol and I saw that and I just didn't agree with it. It, it made me angry a lot of the times, so it was just, I took the good and the bad, you know? Yes, I learned a lot of good lessons on how to, how to work, you know? At the age of like 10, he was, I was already doing landscaping all the way up until 18, where I was like, I don't want to do landscaping for my, the rest of my life. I'm gonna go do something else.

• 4:32Jack Murphy?

  And, um, you know, you were a bit of a troublemaker in school, right? You get sent to the principal's office quite a bit.

• 4:41Speaker 03

  Yeah, I feel like it's a common theme for our special operation guys, you know?

• 4:46Jack Murphy?

  Yeah.

• 4:46Speaker 03

  Yeah. I, I just, it was the, the lack of attention I was getting at home, you know? Looking at, looking back at it now, it's obvious that I wasn't getting the attention at home, so I looked for it at school. And unfortunately though, the way I got the attention was I'd have to be louder than everyone else. I'd have to be more disruptive and it, it worked. I got the attention I was looking for, it just wasn't in the best manners.

• 5:09Jack Murphy?

  And could you describe a little bit, like as you started to hit your teenage years, you know, where you guys were living, you're out in California as I recall, and your older brother got mixed up in some really bad stuff as you guys, you know, grew up.

• 5:23Speaker 03

  Yeah, I'll start in the beginning, uh,

• 5:25Jack Murphy?

  Sure.

• 5:26Speaker 03

  elementary, like really young age, like the, the first thing I remember is like a five years old, you know? I had a, I had, we lived in section A housing and for whatever reason, kid brain, you know, doesn't think clearly. And the first real memory I have of my father is there's a ball stuck on a roof or an airplane. I, I don't remember what it was. I just remember, not a roof, on a tree and I remember wanting to get it. So, uh, I went inside and my dad had all this landscaping equipment because he did landscaping on the side and there was some rope. So I grabbed the rope and being a five year old kid, I don't know how to tie Ranger school of knots yet. I haven't been there yet, but I, I somehow I get the, get it over a branch.

• 6:07Speaker 03

  So I get it and even it out and in my kid logic brain, I was like, I'm gonna tie it around my neck and pull myself up, you know, to go get this airplane.

• 6:16Jack Murphy?

  It's like some Bugs Bunny logic, yeah.

• 6:19Speaker 03

  Yeah. So I get it around my neck, it's not tight or anything. It's just like, uh, your typical one, one loop knot and I'm going to pull it and then I see my dad running out screaming at me and for the first time I, I, I saw emotion in his eyes, you know? I saw him like actually scared and like sad and he ran, he, he grabbed the rope. He, he's just not, I, I was expecting him to scream at me, you know? I was, I was doing something wrong in my mind and he just looks at me and he just hugs me, he doesn't say anything. He, he just hugs me and he, he starts tearing up, but he's not saying anything. And after a little while, like a minute or two passed and he still hugged me and he finally clears his throat, he's like, what are you doing? It's like, I wanted the, I wanted the ball or the, or the airplane, I don't remember what it was, but I wanted to grab it.

• 7:03Speaker 03

  He's like, why didn't you just ask me? And like, he, he just goes back inside, grabs a ladder and gets it down and plays with me for a little bit. But that's like one of the core memories, like that's like the first thing I remember from my childhood was my dad being an actual father figure, which in today's world, it's really hard to come by.

• 7:20Jack Murphy?

  Sure, absolutely.

• 7:23Speaker 03

  But from there, it's just a lot of the same, you know? My dad's drinking, I'm bringing him beers and I come to realize the more beers I bring him, that, the more generous he is with money. And it, it was, it was your typical, you know, they drink a case, they go to the liquor store and they, they get more beer. And I, I have a vivid memory of, uh, I was the reason behind them getting a, my uncle losing his vehicle and getting a driving without a license, a ticket. And this was young, I was probably like, if I had to guess, like six, seven years old, really young and they're going to liquor store. I know if I go, they're going to buy me chips or something because they're drunk and they're a little more friendly after they had a couple beers.

• 8:07Speaker 03

  So we're driving and my dad would always put the seatbelt on me. It was just a booster seat. He put the seatbelt on me and I, I brought a toy with me. It was just a little plastic toy, I don't remember what it was. And I dropped it, so I leaned down, picked it up and when I'm up, uh, we're pulling over, I was like, this isn't the beer store. And I look back and the red and blue lights are flashing and my dad's just come for me. Yo, it's okay, you know? It's probably just, it's nothing serious, probably just a tell, like whatever, he'll talk to us and we'll, we'll get going. And as the officer, officer approaches the window, he's telling my dad the reason for the, or my uncle was the one driving, my dad was passenger. He's telling him the reason for the stop was because I didn't have a seatbelt on.

• 8:50Speaker 03

  And I was like, but I did have a seatbelt on, I just reached down to grab the toy. Like it, it was just, I, I pulled it off and leaned down.

• 8:56Jack Murphy?

  Right.

• 8:57Speaker 03

  And, and the officer was like, yeah, well, I, I still have probable cause, blah, blah, blah. And they went the whole back and forth, uh, did, he's like, I know you guys been drinking, I could smell it. Um, I'm gonna cut you guys a break. I know, because my uncle didn't have a license because he was an immigrant. He's like, I'm gonna cut you guys a break, I'm gonna tow the car and then just write you a ticket and then you guys could just walk. And me, me as a kid, you know, I don't know better. I thought this was all my fault and I carried that guilt for way too long. I'm talking like recently, like the last two years, I finally was able to let some of that go. But, uh, we, he lets us go and we still walk to the beer store. We still go and get alcohol and at that point, I don't want anything, you know? I'm just, I'm just so guilty that I lost my uncle's, uh, car and got him a ticket.

• 9:42Speaker 03

  And obviously they, they told me, you know, it, it was your fault because, you know, they stopped, they stopped us because of you. So I carried that guilt and, and then just from there, that hatred towards police officers really grew. And in my mind, it was just, it was just like, he, he didn't take the time to actually like listen and it was just like, okay, yeah, he's cut us a break, but in the long run, I truly believe was doing more, more bad than good, you know, creating that divide of.

• 10:12Speaker 03

  Just like lower income people were they were always like in that neighborhood just it it was obvious why you know I do I did it too as a police officer later in life you know lower income people you're gonna have more crime it's just factually correct but early that early on is when I started to lean towards of like helping people and what was the best way I could do it and I I leaned into like uh Gandhi you know be the change you wanna see in the world and I just despise cops from that one incident I have a couple more incidents down the road but that's where it started

• 10:47Speaker 03

  and from there a lot of the same you know growing up as a kid not having enough money clothes shoes whatever and it was just normal I didn't care I got my hand me downs for my older brother who was big into you know your oversized triple uh AAA shirts sticky pants and that was my hand me downs I didn't have a choice I didn't get to pick what clothes I got it was up to me you know I'd want clothes that fit personally and I that's just my style but I got a lot of this uh dickies and you know your generic fans you you know whenever you what you think of a gangster that that's what I was wearing and that's like I still have this slick back hair and

• 11:22Jack Murphy?

  Like a California gangster I think like in those days the flannel shirt with the top button

• 11:28Speaker 03

  Oh I couldn't afford the flannel shirt shirt so I just had the AAA

• 11:34Speaker 03

  but but that's how I would dress and it wasn't by choice you know it's by by hand me downs and from there we that was one section eight housing and then we upgraded to another section eight housing uh we were on the waitlist for a little bit and this is like a still elementary school like a fourth fifth grade uh

• 11:56Speaker 03

  no uh nine eleven era was when we moved over to these new apartments and it was nice like I didn't know what like a house was yet I didn't know people can have pools so like going from like terrible section eight housing to nicer section eight housing because this was uh newly built and my parents were on the waitlist and they got in somehow and we moved to this new section eight housing and it's nicer they have like a computer science lab where it's like this room where you go and like do activities they have apple trees they have like open field of grass you could play soccer in and like all the neighborhood kids would just go outside and meet up there because there was nothing else to do but when we moved there it was it was it was better

• 12:42Speaker 03

  the the biggest issue was the people I was surrounded with you know it was a lot of people that were left alone home alone with no real role models because everyone's working so you just hang out with with the neighborhood kids that are up to no good you know breaking windows throwing water balloons just just getting into your typical trouble it it was at this apartment uh I had a very memorable experience I was still a kid so like I wasn't corrupted by my surroundings yeah I wanna say it was like in third grade that's just a random guess it I was young and it was Halloween

• 13:19Speaker 03

  and believe it or not we were the kids that took your boy but but we were respectful we left the bowl we took all the candy and they just dumped it into the pillowcase and then kept walking but as we're doing this we're we're going looking for all the nice neighborhoods the the big houses you know that don't bother to stand at the door and hand out candy so we're just grabbing bowls and we're making our lap and we make it down to like uh thirteenth street it's gang territory owned by some west siders you know local gang stuff I I didn't know any of this I knew I wanted candy I knew my pillowcase was almost full I it's almost time to go home but as we're walking there it's me my brother a cousin and then just some uh one of our friends that a neighborhood friends that

• 14:03Speaker 03

  for whatever reason his parents oblivious to the world didn't understand that a Diablo mask represented the opposing gang and as we're walking here uh we we start hitting the your typical gang whistle you know and we're looking around and there's these two uh in my mind they were dressed up as gangsters it was two females dressed up as gangsters and and they grabbed like my cousin's uh pillowcase full of candy and they're like give me this we're taking it and my cousin's like no he's just a little kid you know fighting back he was younger than me at the time and he's just fighting back pulling on the pillowcase he's like let go you fucking weenie and

• 14:45Speaker 03

  little did he know he was he was like a church going kid he didn't really understand insults at the time so he said the worst possible thing oh a weenie to a west siders like saying the N word to a black person

• 14:56Jack Murphy?

  Oh really?

• 14:56Speaker 03

  So yeah so it's that serious it's like the worst thing you'd possibly say and uh when he said that they let go and we're like sweet let's go let's run so we start running and then uh they do their gang whistle and it's just it's like a mob starts forming like people are like coming out of the woodworks out of nowhere like there's people sitting on Porsches and they start chasing us and like I didn't know I was a kid I didn't wanna get hurt so I just kept running and I remember running and at some point I remember seeing my friend uh from school his name was Mark and he's on a bike passing us and we just look at each other very confused because he was chasing me but I was running with my friends and he didn't know why we were running and I didn't know why they were chasing but I was so fast that I just kept on running I didn't look back and then

• 15:41Speaker 03

  I ran all the way home and I look back every now and then and we they were all still behind me so I just kept on running and somehow for whatever reason they didn't catch any of us like there was people with bats and stuff and like just just screaming every slur you could possibly think of and we're gonna get you we're gonna hurt you and I was like you ain't catching me I would drop this candy and keep running if you guys get close but somehow we we managed to keep our candy and well we made it all the way home and later in life I found out why they were chasing us you know my brother explained it to me but at the time I didn't know like I was just a kid you know I was innocent at the time I wasn't into causing chaos yet but that was very memorable for me that that's when like the the shift started changing of oh wait the world's actually dangerous people actually hurt you out here

• 16:27Speaker 03

  and and then in those elementary school years is where I learned like uh there was this boxer guy the same guy on the bike his name was uh Mark and everyone left him alone for whatever reason and we were friends so I asked him I was like why why don't people mess with you and he just explained he's like yeah man uh I will I'll beat the shit out of them I was like oh sweet I was like how he's like he's like I've been I've been boxing forever I was like well you mind if I say I've been boxing with you too he's like no go ahead I was like alright sweet I've been boxing how long have we been boxing for he's like bro I've been boxing since I was like two years old I was like me too in reality I haven't been boxing at all whatsoever I just it was building a persona

• 17:11Speaker 03

  and from there like people just stopped messing with me knowing that I had him as a friend like because it was essentially protection you know no one wanted to mess with the guy who's best friends with a boxer that that was elementary you know no one really picked on me then and it wasn't until middle school where I started to develop I had to hurt people first before I got hurt and it's terrible logic I I understand that now but as a kid you know that I truly believe that and and that's really where I started getting in trouble a lot more where I have a lot of like uh fights and stuff just just childhood fights and I was very analytical about it I was not picking a fight unless I knew I can win and I I studied people's uh foot movement their stance and

• 17:56Speaker 03

  what I did is I just punch you as hard as I can my first punch and then just bum rush you until you gave up or until you were separated because most fights in the school only lasts like thirty seconds to a minute until they get separated so I knew if I hit you first you're thrown off your game and I could just punch you as many times as I want and then someone's gonna separate us eventually so I just kept that mentality you know I got into two fights and for whatever reason we never got caught it was one was in a bathroom and that that was my first fight it was in a bathroom where the floor was way too wet there was way too many people in this bathroom and we're just we're just dancing at this point no one's getting hurt we're throwing punches and we're just like catching each other with hugs and

• 18:37Speaker 03

  at the end of it we we just hug it out we're like alright bro it's over you know we got our emotions out we're cool again we're friends again and I was like man that that didn't really have the effect I wanted you know it didn't build the persona of leave me alone so I decided to pick another fight and it this this one's kind of rough because it was a close friend of mine And I I picked the fight on purpose. I I knew what I was doing. I knew if I bullied him enough sooner or later, he'd wanna fight me. And I knew I could beat his ass cuz I was bigger than him and I just, he wasn't a fighter. So after like, you know, picking on him, like just messing, pushing him in the hallway, you know, you're very generic textbook bullying,

• 19:18Speaker 03

  slapping the books out of his hand for just because I could. He finally had enough. He's like, you know what? I'm gonna fight you after school. I was like, sure, pick a day. And being a bad kid, I had detention that day. And luckily, I had a friend. Uh, his name was Carlos. And I was like, hey, bro, uh, can you sign me in to your detention? He's like, oh, yeah, I got you. I was like, sweet, I have my alibi. And and we just did this for each other cuz we both, we both were bad kids and he didn't wanna go home cuz he went home to an abusive house. And like, I'd rather just cause trouble at school and and stay at school, so I don't have to deal with it as much.

• 19:53Speaker 03

  So he signs me into to detention. So I have my alibi in my mind. Little did I know, they have cameras everywhere. As a kid, you're not thinking about these things. So we pick our spot and it's way too many people. There's security. They know it's gonna, it's going down. But we get there early enough to where it's like a two-minute fight. And the first thing I do is like, I was like, you you don't wanna fight me. I'm gonna hurt you. I'm just gonna start talking shit to get in their head. And like, the whole time, before we even start fighting, I'm just going, you know, you're gonna lose this and I'm sorry, man. You're just gonna cry afterwards. And like, he's downing himself at this point. He he's not as confident as me. I I just knew if I was, if I was the first to hit, I I won. In my mind, you know, it's like, I gotta get my first punch in.

• 20:38Speaker 03

  So, uh, there's all this back and forth banter. And finally, someone's like, just fight. I was like, sweet. I was like, you ready? He's like, yeah. So I run Superman punch him as hard as I could. And he's he's up, he stumbles, uh, he's in a corner in like a cutoff section, under some stairs in in my middle school. And I just start bum rushing him and he he's like, uh, going fetal position, trying to cover his face, and I'm punching him in his his face as hard as I can. And I don't, I heard someone say like chill or stop and I couldn't, like, I I just let the rage control me. I just kept going. And at this point, I'm punching him in his face as hard as I can. And it wasn't until someone said, uh, security that I I finally stopped.

• 21:20Speaker 03

  And I took off running. You're not catching me. You're not catching me fighting. Uh, so I ran, uh, and I I just kept running. I ran all the way home. It was like three miles. I I get home. I I I turn on the TV. I pretend like nothing happened. Wait for my parents to get home.

• 21:38Speaker 03

  And the the next day, uh, I get called into the office and they call my my mom, they call my parents. My mom's the only one that drives. My dad still to this day doesn't drive because he was an alcoholic then. In his mind, he he told us, if I'm gonna be an alcoholic, I'm never gonna drive because, you know, I I wanna stay here, you know? I don't wanna have a DUI. I don't wanna crash and kill someone. But my mom shows up to the principal's office and she's full attorney mode at this point. Uh, I told her my side of the story. I told her my lie. She believed it. I was like, I was in detention. I don't know what they're talking about. Like, if if you look at the time, I was in detention the whole time. And then I just walked home with my friend.

• 22:17Speaker 03

  And my friend was like, yeah, yeah, we we were in detention together, you know? Uh, they didn't believe, they didn't believe a word we said. They saw the video. They saw me running. And and, uh, their parents, they go back and forth and they agree on like suspension. I was like, there's like two-day suspension. I was like, sweet. I don't have to go to school. I didn't wanna go to school anyways. I hate going to school, you know? I don't, I don't learn anything. I'm not paying attention. So that was my first like, uh, suspension. And the next one wa- wa- was a lot more personal to me. And to this day, I still believe I'm a hundred percent in the right. My friend, uh, his name was Saul, and good friends growing up, childhood friends, we elementary, middle school.

• 22:59Speaker 03

  I knew him very well. We were very close friends. And one day, I I hear from my parents that, uh, one of my friends got ran over on Thirteenth Street and it was a hit and run and he he was drunk. It's really bad. And to a kid, I didn't, I didn't believe it. I was like, I'm gonna see him at school tomorrow and then this is all gonna get cleared up. And it wasn't until a week later that he showed up and he's he's in a wheelchair, uh, immobilized from the neck down, absolutely paralyzed. And, you know, it's it's the to- the talk of the school. Everyone's talking about it. And I vividly remember going to science class and I I'm behind this one kid talking to his friend about the incident.

• 23:43Speaker 03

  And he said, and I quote, he he fucking deserved it. Oh, really? I was like, eh, I was like, hey, bud, what'd you say? And and he repeated it. So I punched him as hard as I could. I didn't even think about it. This was just reaction. I punched him as hard as I could in his face, like, and this was like walking into a classroom where the science teacher was right there. And I, he he's, he fell to the ground, started crying. I I stepped over him and just went to my seat and sat down. And I I was just so mad that I was like, the only way I can calm down is if I go sit down or else I'm I'm gonna go back and hurt him some more. But like, I had already did what I wanted cuz he was on the ground crying. I was like, he learned his lesson. And and this one, this one, I was

• 24:28Speaker 03

  on paper, yeah, I was wrong, but morally, in my mind, I thought I did everything. You know, my, I didn't sell my integrity for,

• 24:37Speaker 03

  like, I didn't sit there and do nothing cuz in my mind, if I would've sat there and just listened and let him disrespect my friend like that, who is now immobilized in a wheelchair from the neck down and you're insulting him. But I got, I went back to the principal's office. They they know me at this point. I'm I'm the troublemaker, always speaking out of class, at a turn, you know, flirting with the girls, very generic, uh, high school bully. And at this time, you know, it's it's it's a white family, a higher income, higher class, and they they wanna press charges. And they they wanna throw the book at me. And my mom, again, you know, she comes in here, attorney is like, yeah, but what he said was wrong. And my son just reacted to what he said, you know?

• 25:20Speaker 03

  If he never said that, my son would have never, would have never punched him in his face. Uh, he deserved it. And

• 25:27Speaker 03

  and I'm being super nosey. I'm in the hallway and I can hear all this conversation. I remember it cuz I was there. I'm listening to my mom just just go back and forth with the principal. And like, she's screaming at him. She does not care, you know? I I'm her little baby boy and in her mind, I'm innocent, even though I I wasn't the greatest role model. But she's going, uh, back and forth. And finally, they agree on like a week suspension and anger management classes. So I didn't have a say in it. I did it. I I went home for a week and I was like, sick. I get to just be home and eat the limited food there is and watch TV. Like, I wasn't like, uh, super poor to where there was no food. It was just like tortillas, uh, rice and beans, you know, very generic, low-income stuff.

• 26:12Speaker 03

  So there was food. It just wasn't what I wanted. So what I would do is I'd go to like the the Vons, uh, it's just like your supermarket store, like Giant or whatever. I don't know. Uh, you're East Coast. I don't know what's up there, but it's just a mar- uh,

• 26:27Speaker 04

  Like a CBS or, yeah, ShopRite, something like that.

• 26:31Speaker 03

  Yeah. So I just go in there and steal. And at one point, the the manager saw me and I I was stealing like, it, I was stealing kid brain stuff, you know? I was like, I'm hungry. I'm gonna go steal some candy. I'm gonna go steal the biggest chocolate bar because that's gonna fill me up the most with nuts in it, you know, the big Hershey's with the nuts. And I was like, yeah, that's gonna give me the most amount of fulfillment. So, uh, one day she catches me and she's like, why do you always come in here and steal just chocolate bars? And I was like, cuz I'm hungry. And she's like, oh, she's like, why don't you steal actual food? And I was like, why would I do that? I was like, I'm hungry. I'm gonna eat the chocolate. That's what I wanna eat. And she's like,

• 27:14Speaker 03

  I know you come in here and steal. I know that every time you walk in. I don't care enough. I don't get paid enough to stop you. Uh, but if you want food, just take the actual food. It's it's more beneficial. And she's like, I I'm gonna look the other way, but you you do you. Essential is what she told me. And unfortunately, I was like, okay, I could just take whatever I want now. So I went back and just like started taking random magazines like that I didn't need. And like, just all this like gum that I wasn't supposed to have in school. And it it was just like routine at that point. I'd go in there in the morning, grab a gum. And sometimes I pay for it, just just even at the scales a little bit, if I had, uh, money from like, uh, helping my dad out. But a lot of times, I'd just take it cuz it was free and there was no consequences to my actions.

• 28:00Speaker 03

  And I vividly remember buying gum one time and the principal to the school is behind me. He's like, you're not supposed to have that. I was like, I was like, and you're not supposed to talk to me outside of school. Fuck off. And and he just looked at, he looked at me confused. He's like, he's like, why are you so disrespectful? I was like, you disrespected me first. Don't talk to me. But but just the ego part of it, uh, just from that that like, uh, middle school age is where I really developed that, like, I I have to be bi- bigger and better and stronger and I have to prove myself.

• 28:35Speaker 04

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• 33:52Jack Murphy?

  Wasn't there one, one incident where, uh, your buddy stole something too? And he was like pretty dumb about it and he got both of you caught?

• 33:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. This was, I want to say it was like, uh, right before I went to high school, so eighth grade. And we're, we're at the shopping mall and I know shopping malls are way more secure than like your generic, you know, no-camera stores. At this point, I was very seasoned in the art of stealing. You know, I've done it enough times to where, you know, you just walk past it, grab it, slip it in your pocket. You don't make eye contact with them. They don't make eye contact with you. They're not going to notice. So I, I went in there with, I had money. I had $20. I went in there for headphones. I, I wanted to be able to listen to like this, to music on like this old, super old computer that was handing me down to us. But, uh, it was just that, that childhood age of playing video games and stuff.

• 34:44Speaker 03

  And I was like, I just want to listen to music. And I asked my dad, I was like, yeah, can I have a $20? I want to buy some headphones. He's like, yeah, sure. Uh, here you go. And cool. Uh, I'm gonna go to the mall tomorrow, let him know where I am and all that. And three of my friends, uh, we decided to go together. I was like, hey, I'm gonna go to the mall after school. You guys want to come? Like, oh yeah, sure. I was like, I just wanna, I just want to buy some headphones and that's it. You know, I'm not really looking for shopping around. And when we get there, we're, we're all hungry. We're kids. We don't think about, we don't, we're not planning for being hungry and stuff. And my friend's like, oh, he ordered some food and he's like, oh man, I'm sure. Can I borrow 10 bucks? I was like, sure, here, here's, here's the 20. And, and then I didn't have enough money for the headphones I had.

• 35:26Speaker 03

  You know, I had $10 left because he spent 10 of my dollars and I was like, fuck it, I'm gonna steal it. Who's gonna stop me? And in my mind, I came up with my whole plan, you know, I'm gonna slip it in my pocket. Uh, this place usually has the, the higher-end security where they'll wait for you outside to, you know, justify. You break the plane of stealing, you have to cross the barrier of the door. So I knew that. I knew that if there was people outside, they were waiting for us and I was gonna run. But we, we get in there and that was my plan before I even got into the store, was if there's someone outside waiting for us, I'm gonna take off running. And they can only chase me to the end of the, the mall property, you know?

• 36:07Speaker 03

  They can't chase me past that because, uh, I was very analytical. I looked into their, uh, rules and regulations. So I, I knew, I knew what the boundaries were. And I told my friend that and he's like, oh, okay, sweet. This is gonna be my first time stealing. I was like, okay. I was like, I'm very good at this. Just don't be obvious. I was like, well, we'll split up and you, you go steal whatever you want and I'll go steal whatever I want. And I, I walked around, found some headphones. It was $19.99, $19.99. It's important for down the road. And my friend, he found like a game that he wanted to steal and he, he, super obvious. Immediately red flag. I knew that they were on to us because he was like ducking in, in alleys.

• 36:51Speaker 03

  He was looking around. He was making eye contact with the cashier. And I see the security, you know, doing his little routine of walking passes without trying to look obvious. And I was like, they're on to us, bro. We're gonna have to run when we get out. And for whatever reason, when we get to the door, I'm ready to run, you know? I'm already like leaning towards, I'm getting in my running, running phase. And at this time, I was fast. I was fast kid, you know, I was running like five-minute miles. And as soon as I see the two securities, there's two massive white pillars on the entrance, two seers. That's, that's where we were stealing from in the mall. And the, the two dudes come around the side and my, I told, I looked at my friend, I was like, let's run. And he's like, he grabs, he grabs me by the wrist and he's like, how about we stay?

• 37:36Speaker 03

  And by that point, the two dudes are already grabbing us. And I was like, fuck.

• 37:40Jack Murphy?

  I like the run plan better myself.

• 37:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, I was like, they're not gonna chase us that far. And if they chase us, we're faster. We're gonna get away. Like, it was two fat security guards, you know, they're gonna get tired before we do. We were young kids that had infinite amount of energy. But, but they grab us and I was like, and they're walking us back to their little security office. I was like, why didn't you run, man? He's like, honestly, I got scared. He's like, I panicked. I froze. I was like, whatever. Now we, now we're stuck here. Uh, they call the cops. The cops show up. They call our parents. His mom is looking at me like I'm the criminal. I was like, she, she was like glaring at me. I was like, he's the reason we got caught. It wasn't up to me. If it was up to me, we'd be home. Uh, but then my mom shows up after his parents show up

• 38:23Speaker 03

  and his parents take him and, uh, he gets whatever charges and we, we go our separate ways after this. I don't, I don't talk to him after that, but when my mom shows up, police are there and I'm catching a charge because what I stole had a value of $20 and like 19 cents or like whatever taxes was. And for it to be an actual crime, you had to break the, the plane of $20. So if they would have charged me for the $19.99 value, they couldn't, I wouldn't have had to go to the things I had to. I had to do, uh, community service. I had to do juvenile court.

• 39:02Speaker 03

  But it was all because it was with taxes, it was over twenty dollars. And and I just found that so hypocritical. But I get my talking to, I get home, I get spanked, you know, very generic. Childhood trauma stuff. And and then I had to go do this jury duty. I had no idea what a court system is at this age. Uh, I I walk in, I'm wearing your oversized white T-shirt, Dicky pants. Looking the way I uh, the way your typical gang should look and it was a jury of white people. Every one of them was white. I was like, I'm guilty. I don't know. Whatever the max punishment is, I'm I'm gonna get it. And they go through the whole trial, they they let me speak my piece and I was like, yeah.

• 39:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, I stole it. I was there, you know, I didn't, I wasn't like trying to avoid the question. I was like, well, I was like, and but I stole it because I I used the money that I had to buy for it, you know, I buy my friend food and. Didn't care. There was, there was no reasoning. Uh, I got max, max, max time, max community service, max. Amount of jury duty.

• 40:06Speaker 03

  And it was like just juvenile jury duty. I don't remember how many times it was, I wanna say between five and ten, but every time I'd go in there, I'd just argue with them. And it was because it was people like me, people that looked exactly like me were the ones being tried and. The jury would be like, oh, yeah, he's guilty. I was like, yeah, but why are we giving him the max amount? Why are we recommending the max amount of? Time, you know, he al- he's already having to spend time, his parents have to bring him here. Wh- why are we saying that he's guilty before we get all the facts? And I didn't really understand like the whole court system at this time, you know, it was just. Very generic kid brain. I I I relate to this person, we should let him go.

• 40:47Speaker 03

  Like, there was, there was no more logic, like, yeah, there was the charges and all that, and it was like very like petty stuff, you know. Stole candy bar, they they pushed someone and they they got charged for assault, stuff like that. And I was like, it's not that serious. I I punch people in their faces and I didn't catch a charge. And like, yeah, well, that's wrong, blah, blah, blah. And. I I did my jury duty and like the first two times I was super argumentative. I was like, I'm not agreeing with this. I'm a, it's gonna be a hung jury. But I stayed there so long that eventually I had to like submit, you know, I had to give in to whatever the group wanted. And then after those two times, I'm like, all right, I'll just shut the fuck up and listen. I'm not, I'm just gonna go with the flow. I'm, I'm, it's gonna drag this out. I get to go home sooner if I don't argue with them.

• 41:30Speaker 03

  So I I did that and then I had a community service where. I lived where the computer room, rec room, whatever you wanna call it. And there was a volunteer lady that was super chill. She she she would open the place up when she didn't have to. She stayed there longer for us, you know, really cared about, like, she wasn't paid to do it. She just volunteered. And. Unfortunately, she was too nice. I took advantage of of the situation. I I asked her, you know, I was like, hey, I got community service, I explained the whole story. She's like, oh, no, that's totally reasonable. Give me your paper, I'll sign off on all your hours. I had like, I wanna say it was like fifty hours of community service and she just signed them off. She's like, make sure you put separate dates on it, though. That way they know you came on separate di- days and don't turn it in until like a week later.

• 42:14Jack Murphy?

  Damn, she's a professional, has it together.

• 42:17Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, she she gave me the whole structure, the whole layout. She's like, to- just wait till this day and then you'll turn it in. That way they can. They can see that you did this this amount of hours every day. I was like, okay. And she's like, don't worry about it, you know, you don't have to clean up in here. You just come in here and have fun, like, we'd go in there and play like RuneScape. I don't know if you're familiar with the game.

• 42:35Jack Murphy?

  No, I don't think I've played it, but I've heard of it.

• 42:39Speaker 03

  A World of Warcraft, similar, you know.

• 42:41Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 42:41Speaker 03

  Generic video game, go in there and play with my friends for like. She'd, it it was supposed to be open for half an hour and every time she'd leave it open. Upwards of an hour, minimum an hour, and she's just like, I just care about you guys, you know. You guys need those outlets to be creative. Kids would go in there, make crafts. People, some kids would just go in there just to talk to her because, you know, it was a parent that listened and most of us in those situations don't have that. But I get that community service done with and that that was the the last of my troublemaking in middle school. Uh, but then we move on to high school and I'm still this. Egotistical, I'll let you ask questions if you have.

• 43:21Jack Murphy?

  No, no, I mean, yeah, it sounds like when you got the hi- into high school, like the legal problems really began, especially with your your other, your uh, older brother.

• 43:31Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, it wasn't towards, uh, so I went to two high schools, um, we we lived in section A. And early on, I I was still a troublemaker, you know, just seeking that attention, arguing with teachers. Failing, failing school on purpose, because I just didn't want to, you know, I didn't, I didn't care to. Prove myself with grades, you know, I just wanted to. Do bare minimum. I didn't wanna do homework at home. I did all my homework in the next class. And it was just, I didn't, I didn't wanna spend energy and time on things I didn't care about. Like, I knew for a fact I was never gonna go to college. Just because sitting in a classroom was so boring to me. But the biggest place where I'd get, where I'd like, uh.

• 44:14Speaker 03

  Have too much freedom is like math class because I'm really good at math and I could finish the work really quick. Because that's what they'd ask of me and then I could just go and start flirting with girls, start messing with my friends, et cetera. And and that that would get, get me in trouble a lot. I'll I'll get to what you're asking, but uh, there's a couple of stories in here that that are, that I that I remember vividly.

• 44:39Speaker 03

  So I learned this fancy trick where the arrow of YouTube taught me, if if you tie a fishing line, people can't see that. And and I honed these skills in in in middle school. I tie, uh, just fifty pound test. Uh, fishing line. I was a fisherman growing up, so there was fishing line laying around. So I did one strand and I I thought they, I thought it would snap. I thought, I thought, uh, if someone ran into it, you know, it they'd catch it. And the the line would snap and. I tested it with people walking on the street next to the section A housing. And so some people clipped it, you know, they did your generic bump into it and it's like, oh, duck under it, whatever.

• 45:21Speaker 03

  And and it wasn't until I I I I felt bad on this one. It was this biker. Mind you, he's in the wrong, he's driving on the sidewalk, it wasn't my fault, a hundred percent. He's driving on the sidewalk and. He's he's cocking, you know, he's he's going as fast as you could, he can and. He didn't see the zip line, obviously, and it catches him, clotheslines him by the neck. Falls backwards and I'm I'm hiding on the roof of our two-story. Um, section A housing. I I'd just climb on the side of like a a porch and get up top, so I, that was my vantage point. That's where I I did most of my misbehaving. Just because no one can find me up there and there were so many ways to get off.

• 46:04Speaker 03

  That like if someone came from one way, you could get off the other side. But I'm sitting out there and I see this guy get clotheslined and I was like, oh shit, that actually worked. And I I I go to school and I was like, hey, guys, I got some fishing line. Where do you guys wanna put it up to trip people? And being kids, you know, we didn't think this through. We're like, well, we always hang out with friends, so we won't be suspicious if we're always, we're we're in the same spot, so let's put it somewhere where. We we can see it from our hangout spots. Like, okay, I was like, well. The the stairs would probably be a good choice, you know, there's the railing there, we'll just tie it to the railing, we'll clip someone's legs and they'll fall and it'll be funny.

• 46:41Speaker 03

  Unfortunately, it was the principal that was our next victim. He's he's walking with his coffee, he has his binder, he has his computer, he's all happy saying good morning to everyone. And he's looking around, talking to the kids. He does not see the zip line or the the fishing line. And he clips it, face plants onto the, onto a step, like face first, coffee goes everywhere, his papers go everywhere. And we just walk away. We we didn't want any part of it. We left, uh, they they did their investigation. They couldn't figure out who it was. The the cameras weren't, uh, clear enough for them to see, see us in that spot. But I got away with it, so I was like, I'm gonna keep doing this. This is fun and entertaining to me, you know.

• 47:23Speaker 03

  I I had built up resentment towards the principal because I get random backpack checks. I I get it. I know, I knew what I looked like. Yeah, I'd I'd random backpack check myself, if I'm being completely honest. But I I, it was just one of their policies, you know, oh, we're we're free to check everyone's backpack, but. We only check Hispanic backpacks because I had a lot of white friends and I was like, how many times has your backpack been checked, brother? He's like, none. I was like, you're carrying weed most of the time. How's your backpack never checked? He's like, he's like, because I'm white. It's called white privilege. I was like, I was like, I'm white too then. I was like, how do I get this privilege?

• 48:04Speaker 03

  We just, we just went back and forth and. We were close friends, so like, that's how, that's how we bantered, you know. I was like, man, this is some bullshit, you know, I'm always being targeted just because of my skin color. So it it just gave me more reason to, to like, uh. To hit back in a, in a way, you know, and my way, in my, at this, at this time, I started to learn that. I hurt you way more with my words than actions. And it it wasn't, it it was really bad on one of my math teachers and and this one I actually feel bad about. This was like uh tenth grade and. My math teacher, you know, she she cared way too much about me and I didn't care, you know, I'd go in there and just cause mayhem I.

• 48:48Speaker 03

  She'd hand, give me a handout, you know, it takes half an hour to do this, I do it in like five, I turn it in, just being super cocky. I'm done, I was like, what do you want me to do now? And she's like, just go sit at your desk and be quiet, go draw or something, I was like, I'm bored, wha- what else can I do? And she's like, just go to your desk, please, I I got paperwork to to uh grade and stuff and. I'd go back to my desk and immediately start flirting with girls and uh distracting people. And she's like, can you go outside? I was like, I can if you want me to, she's like, go outside, I was like, alright. Uh she go out there and talk to me, I was like, alright, I'll chill, I'll chill for the rest of, uh I'll chill for the rest of today and this this was a common occurrence, you know.

• 49:31Speaker 03

  I I do my paperwork, I start throwing stuff at people, start getting my pencil stuck on the ceiling, just anything to keep my mind busy. And she she just put up with it with it too much and eventually she's like, you know, I can't keep doing this with you, I I'm gonna send you to the principal's office and. You you're just gonna keep getting in trouble, I was like, I don't care, uh I I I live in the principal's office, I know him by, I call him by his first name. And she sends me to a principal's office the first time and. I'm sitting there a little nervous and like the attendance ladies, there's two of them at the front desk and they're talking to me like, what are you doing here? I don't know, I was talking back like I always do and they're like, why do you think you do that? I was like, I don't know, I don't care either.

• 50:14Speaker 03

  I was like, it's entertaining to me, I get bored and they're like, oh, you you just don't get enough attention at home and I took offense to it. I was like, well, this is why you're fat and ugly, like just immediately counter insult, just because if you're gonna hurt me, I'm gonna hurt you right back. And she just, they they both looked at me sideways, they're like, the the mouth on this kid, like what's wrong with him? And the principal calls me and he's like, oh yeah, it's it's you again, you know. You you gotta stop speaking out in class, you you get detention and then from there, we're gonna have to suspend you, blah blah blah and then. Eventually, you you're probably gonna get expelled if you keep up this attitude, I was like, oh, you you're just, you're just, you're just being racist, you know. In my mind, if I made a race thing, they'd leave me alone, it didn't work, but I tried.

• 51:00Speaker 03

  I was like, you you're just doing this because I'm Mexican, you know, and. He's like, no, I'm doing this because you're you're doing this and this is the outcome, you know, you you knowingly disrupt the class and this is the punishment. I was like, nah, this is this is just because I'm Mexican and you hate Mexicans. He's like, go back to your, go back to your next period, they just held me there for that period and. I I kept doing it, I didn't stop, you know, it was it was too entertaining for me and I just, it gave me the attention I was seeking. It wasn't until one day, I was just, I was having a bad day, I don't even know why and. The teacher wants to be her level-headed self and wants to talk to me and I was like, can you send me to the office today? I really don't wanna argue with you.

• 51:42Speaker 03

  And she's like, she's like, what's the matter? Let's go outside and talk about it, I was like, and at this point, she's super pregnant, she's like eight months pregnant.

• 51:50Speaker 03

  And she just keeps trying to talk me down, I was like, please, just send me to the office, I am gonna say something really stupid and you're gonna regret it, not me, you are gonna regret it. And she's like, I I I I promise you, there's nothing you can say that can hurt me, blah blah blah, and I look her in her in her eyes and I I tell her. Send me to the principal's office before your fucking baby dies. And like, that was just like the meanest thing I could think of at the time. And she breaks down, starts crying and I was like, fuck, I'm in trouble already, I'm just gonna start walking to the principal's office. I walk myself in there, like knowing that, that that that was the outcome. So I'm sitting there, I I get to the office, they're like, what are you doing here? I was like, I'm I'm gonna be in trouble soon, just wait.

• 52:29Speaker 03

  And the two attendance lady know me at this point and it takes a while for like security to locate me, even though I was just sitting there waiting for them. Uh, principal talks to the teacher and. And he explains to me, you know, he's like, you really hurt her, you know, she was, she was crying for a really long time and. I just didn't care, you know, I was like, I gave you the warning, I told you exactly what I was gonna do and you just ignored me, so you deserved it and. It wasn't until later, I didn't even get in trouble for this, that that was the crazy part, I didn't get suspended, I didn't get expelled, I got like. One day of detention and detention was entertaining for me because I'd get to hang out with my friends that were all there with me.

• 53:08Speaker 03

  But there there wasn't really a a major consequence to that, you know, it was a verbal talking to and at this point, I'd been talked to too many times to, for me to care, you know. I got in trouble and I was already on the defensive, so I just tuned it out. But uh that time, they they they would call home a lot of the times and I would just run home. And answer the phone and just pretend like I was my mom or dad and that's how I got away with a lot of the things I got away with. Was they'd be talking to me and I'd just talk in Spanish and they wouldn't know the difference, you know, I could make my voice deeper in Spanish, they don't know that my dad, who is always working. And they'd send letters and I'd just forge the the letters because who's gonna know, no, I I was. I was my dad's signature and my brother was my mom's signature because he could get it more accurate.

• 53:54Speaker 03

  So like anytime they'd send disciplinary stuff, they're like, oh, you have to get this signed by your parents, like, okay. I was so egotistical, one time they gave me a letter, I turned it in the same day. Like, I haven't even gotten home yet to get it signed, I signed it and turned it back in, they're like, how'd you get this signed? I was like, oh, my mom stopped by. Uh to sign that, I called her and like, oh, okay, thank you, it was like, I I lied straight to your face, but. But it's just, it's just like, in my mind, it just made it so easy to lie to people and just to lie people, lie to people. To to get what I wanted, you know, just to be left alone.

• 54:30Speaker 03

  And it was at this time that my brother started to getting, started getting into like uh selling drugs, uh gangs, stuff like that. And for me, it it was a positive, you know, we we finally had money, you know, I was able to, uh we. At at this time, my parents were looking from moving on from section A since they had that extra income of drug money. And oh, they're looking at houses, we're going touring houses and in my mind, it didn't seem real, I was like, there's no way we can afford this house. We've been poor our whole lives, you know, we we live in section A, I I knew numbers, so I asked them about the finances, so I understood that. It it wasn't feasible and at the time, rent was cheap in California, it was like twelve hundred bucks, thirteen hundred bucks.

• 55:13Speaker 03

  And like uh more expensive houses, bigger houses were like two thousand dollars, which is crazy to think about.

• 55:18Jack Murphy?

  Yeah.

• 55:19Speaker 03

  And I'm talking like, Escondido, California, if, if you like San Diego County for generic speaking. But uh we look at a couple houses and. They were around a hundred fifty K and that that was like very generic, you know, fixer-upper, has a couple problems. And then we look at this really nice house, it's like two hundred ten K, it was way more than they could afford. But they had the drug money and they they wanted the nicest things, this this house had a pool, it had your your picket fence, they had. Garden space, it had had everything we never had as, an- any of us ever had, you know, my parents, us as kids.

• 56:01Speaker 03

  And they they jump, you know, they they they get the new homeowner feeling, they they jump at. They put, they put a bid in, they overbid on it, they get the house and. For a while, everything's working out since they have that that income from my brother, you know, he he's financially. Paying for pretty much everything at this point, you know, new truck.

• 56:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, oh yeah, and. It it's it's it's it's works until it doesn't, so so we move into this house, you know, I I had to switch schools because it's a new district and. I switch schools and for whatever reason, you know, I'm no longer causing chaos as much, you know, I'm more leveled out, I I've, I got. All that out of the way and when we switched, I was more into like, you know, chasing girls and. Uh tr- just trying to get laid essentially, but when we moved there, it's it's way nicer. You you got your your super friendly neighbors that wave at you and I was like, why are these people so nice around?

• 57:08Speaker 03

  I just didn't understand that, like, uh people were friendlier if you if you moved to a nicer place. But my brother kept selling and like all all good things come to an end eventually, he gets caught. Uh first time he gets caught, it's it's a lot, it's it's pounds of crystal meth, pounds of marijuana and. He's he's a smart dude and he put money aside for attorneys and all that. He he goes to jail, he does, I wanna say it was like two months, it wasn't a very long time, he gets out like immediately. And California is a three-strike rule where you could get in trouble three times and on the third time, you're pretty much doing life.

• 57:47Speaker 03

  So he's like, oh, well, I got another chance, you know, I'm gonna keep selling and then if I get caught again, you know, that's my second strike and then after that, I'll stop. And and they're on to him, you know, they're they're tapping his phones and, you know, your phone's getting too hot, obviously someone's listening to it. Um, there's random cars sitting outside our house, unmarked, unmarked police cars, of all cars, it says police. On the back of it, you know, the police interceptors, like, can you at least be a little more discreet? We know you're here, I'd go up to them and knock and. Just being super nosy and they wouldn't roll down their windows, they just drive off, but I I was just doing to piss them off at that point. And eventually, they they get enough evidence to re- to, they they don't even have enough evidence to get a search warrant, they.

• 58:31Speaker 03

  They do what is uh known as a knock and announce, you know, they're gonna get consent from the homeowner.

• 58:38Jack Murphy?

  You guys mind if I take a look around here?

• 58:43Speaker 03

  So this is where this is where it gets super shady eh just from a police standpoint, you know. Uh.

• 58:51Speaker 03

  I did a just for context of four years in R- uh Ranger Regiment and four years as a police officer. But looking back now. They had a full SWAT team. Unmarked, no, there was no police in uniform. Everyone was like just in civilian coats with clothes with their vests on and badges. And. Uh I was with my brother, my cousin. We were in my room. It was a converted garage. And it had a sliding door that backed up to the pool. And I I see just random people showing up to our back door, which wasn't an uncommon occurrence because my brother sold drugs from there, so. Random people showing up was normal, but these people had guns and that wasn't normal.

• 59:37Speaker 03

  Uh but I I thought we were getting like robbed or something, but then I see the badges and they're knocking on the door, you know, let us in, please. So my brother opens the door, they they they do police callouts, you know, they grab all of us, they take us to our front lawn. And at the same same time, when I'm walking past, I look to my left and they're the people, the other officers are probably walking in, talking to my parents. And I I just overhear them say, you know, uh, well, you have to sign this or else you could get deported. And. And that's all I heard until we get thrown on our front porch or our front grass and they're keeping us face down in the dirt. And mind you, I'm just a kid.

• 1:00:19Speaker 03

  I I am I am not that I was I was still in uh high school, sorry.

• 1:00:24Jack Murphy?

  It's alright.

• 1:00:27Speaker 03

  But uh they put us face dirt of face first in in the grass and we're there for a really long time, half an hour to an hour of them just likes. Keeping us there. I I get up and just sit uh crisscross applesauce and one guy comes back outside. He's like, oh, no, you gotta you gotta get back on the ground. I was like, why? He's like, oh, it's just it's a control thing. I was like, okay, so I get back on the ground and I'm sitting there. The whole time I'm just mad. I was like, there's no reason they should they should be in our house right now. And then uh they bring up my dad out and I'm just asking them questions in Spanish, you know, it's like. Why'd you let them in? He's like, oh, they they threatened to deport us, you know, they they said if I didn't give them consent to search the house, they. They were gonna arrest me and uh take me back to Mexico.

• 1:01:09Speaker 03

  I was like, well, know knowing what I know now, that's illegal. You can't do that. Uh but at the time, we didn't know better, you know, we were. We just knew what we were told and. They they did tear up our house, absolutely destroy it, you know, putting holes in walls, undoing like ceiling tiles and digging random holes and. The one that hurts me personally the most is they dug up one of uh my dad's. One of my dad's trees that was from Mexico. He brought over the seed. It was his childhood tree, you know, this is a fruit he grew up on. And they dug it out and he he re- he tried to replant it and then it ended up dying, you know. How do you put a value on on something like that? You don't. There was way too much emotional value to that.

• 1:01:55Speaker 03

  But they they tore up the house, which whatever, you know, we we we can we can fix holes in walls, we can put the stuff, we can put the clothes back into all the drawers and stuff. They searched everything and my brother was smart. He didn't keep drugs inside the house. He he was smarter than that. He kept it outside.

• 1:02:12Speaker 03

  Uh but uh they they didn't find they didn't find the actual stash. They found like an eight ball of crystal meth. And they're like, oh, he he was on probation at the time. They're like, oh, you're lucky, you know, we're just gonna catch you a verbal warning. We're not gonna charge you with it. And looking back now, it was because they didn't have enough legal standing for what they did, you know. But I didn't know that at the time and I I I was just so angry as a kid, you know, I started looking into laws and stuff. I started. Reading case law at at this young age, just from that incident, you know, I was like, there there's no way this this should happen to people, you know. This we moved here, I I am an American. I was born in America. I should not be treated like this. It is it is inhumane in my mind.

• 1:02:57Speaker 03

  So I started looking into it and I I called the police, the local police department. I was like, hey, on on this day, I just wanna know who raided our house. And they're like, what are you talking about? No one, there was no uh police calls in that area. Try try the sheriff's office. Okay, so I call over to the sheriff's office and like, yeah, we don't have any incidents at your address, period. And uh they're like, try state police. Okay, so I tried state police and the same thing, you know, they're like, oh, yeah, no, we haven't responded to any calls there. We haven't done any any work there. I was like, well, then who the fuck raided us? Uh no one apparently like uh.

• 1:03:35Speaker 03

  Uh I I I had never figured it out, you know, I went back again, even after being a cop, trying to get uh. Just cuz it's, I remember the date or I I asked my parents for the date or whatever. And it just it didn't exist, you know, they they didn't give them any paperwork, they didn't give them copies of anything. They they just took the drugs and left and they they left them with a verbal warning, you know, cutting him a break.

• 1:03:59Speaker 03

  But from there on, it's just like co- cops are mean for no reason, you know, at this point, I've been Terry stopped and I've been, you know, frisked for no reason. I I've outran a couple cops just because. I wasn't doing anything illegal. I just thought it was entertaining when they told me, hey, stop and I ran. Like, what are you gonna do? Chase me? And if you catch me, you're gonna search me and I'm gonna have nothing on me? I don't care. I I was looking into laws at this point, so. I I was just, I was just so mad where I wanted to catch him in a lie, you know, I wanted to hurt them the same way they hurt me.

• 1:04:32Speaker 03

  But I I I chill out, I get to school and it wasn't until um my high school year there, high school year that I actually started trying. And I was bad. I I was failing so many classes. I was I was way. Way too much into girls, like, you know, I was too busy flirting with girls to pay attention. Or I just wouldn't do the homework. I wouldn't do the assignments or if I did them, I was purposely missing stuff. Uh. I I remember taking a math test and I was like, I'm gonna get zero percent on it. I told the teacher that and she's like, no, you're not. She's like, that's impossible. You can guess on every one of them and you'll still get like twenty five percent. I was like, watch. So she gives me the test and I go out of my way to purposely choose every wrong answer.

• 1:05:18Speaker 03

  And on on a on a white piece of paper, I'm putting the correct answers just just because, I don't know, I I thought it was funny. And and I hand it in and I I leave. The next day, she she ho- she holds me after class. She's like. Why'd you get zero percent? I was like, I told you I would. I was like, I'm a man of my word. I do what I'm gonna say. And she's like. She's like, you can get them all right, can't you? And I I reached in my backpack, I give her the piece of paper. I was like, yeah, here they are. And she's like, why? Why'd you do that? I was like, I don't know, I thought it was I thought it was funny. And she's like, I'm gonna give you a hundred percent on it, but don't do that again. Uh and like after that, like, you know.

• 1:06:00Speaker 03

  I felt the respect. It was mutual, you know, at that point, it was like, she did something for me. She didn't have to, so I didn't feel the need to lash out as much.

• 1:06:09Speaker 03

  It it was. It was there where like I learned that, you know, there there's actually some people that actually have your best interest at heart, you know, not everyone's out to get me.

• 1:06:18Jack Murphy?

  A- as I uh I listen to these stories, uh I can see that you were the perfect candidate for either the Marine Corps or the Ranger Regiment. It was gonna be one of the two.

• 1:06:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, and and it was at this time where all the ROTC nerds are talking and, you know, they're like, oh, I'm gonna go do these these cool things overseas. I'm gonna go. Join the infantry, what I know now, but in my mind, uh I was uh like very illiterate, you know, I didn't pay attention in school. I heard infirmary. And I thought infirmary was infantry. I didn't know the difference. I didn't care to. I didn't I didn't ask these guys about what they were signing up for, like, I had friends that were in ROTC and. They just talked about the military like, oh, it's it's this lifesaver. So like, uh once I got the uh graduation day.

• 1:07:05Speaker 03

  I I grind. I make up like ten classes on my last years. I had zero period and I had to stay after school. I did online classes at home just so I could barely graduate. I graduated with like a solid two point something, like it was not good, but. Uh then I started doing landscaping for like a month with my dad and. I hate it. I don't I don't wanna do it. I don't wanna be in the sun. This is hard work. I don't like this hard labor stuff. So in in my mind, the the only thing I could think of was, well, everyone talks about the military as this super cool thing. So that's when I started training. I was running. I was running like marathons every other day. I was running like thirteen miles.

• 1:07:47Speaker 03

  Just just casually cuz like in my mind is like, I'm if I'm gonna be in the military, I have to be the best. And I would just run until I was exhausted and then I'd have to get back like and. And someone, uh one of my like gym teachers told me this, i- if you never if you never walk. It it never gets hard. So even if like you're just slowly jogging, I was like, well, then I'm just never gonna walk. I'm just gonna pretend like I'm just moving my arms a lot. I'm moving at the pace of a walk, but. In my mind, you know, I'm jogging and I just kept that mentality anytime I ran. And I would always shoot for like a faster score, you know, I'd I'd I'd. Do a landmark and I'd be like, all right, let's see how long it takes me. I left the house at this time. Let's see how fast I could be back.

• 1:08:31Speaker 03

  And that that's how I would challenge myself and I was like, well, this is getting easy. I need to I need to go further. It started with like uh one or two miles, you know, I I'd run out a mile, come back a mile. And I I I look it up on Google Maps just to see the distance. So I knew like, cuz I knew you had to run two miles for the BTZS. So I was like, I'm gonna be very fast at the two miles, but I'm still gonna run more that way. I if I have to, you know, I'll I'll be ready for it, just trying to be over prepared because I. I asked some former military uh uncle. He's like, oh, yeah, just just be a good runner. If you can run, you'll be okay.

• 1:09:08Speaker 03

  So it wasn't until like two or three months after high school where it's like. I have this path of I can go start a business with my father and I can run it. I know I can. I am smart enough to do that. But that's not what I want to do. I I want to get out of this small town. This is not where I want to be. And it it was a lot to do with. The way my parents raised me, you know, ever since a kid, they're they're telling me, you know, you hit eighteen, you gotta get out of the house, you know, we can't feed you. Et et cetera. I was like, okay, I I'll leave. I'll find my way out. And that's the only path I saw. So I go to the marine station and. Unfortunately, on this day, I had a very hot day after, like, I was in a hurry and.

• 1:09:50Speaker 03

  I go in the marine station and these guys are very egotistical, like, like, oh, are you even good enough to be a marine? I was like, yeah, what do you need me to do? They're like, do some pu- do do X amount of pushes. Like, okay, I could do that. I've been practicing for this. I could do a hundred pushups in whatever allotted time it was, two minutes or whatever. And I did them and they're like, oh, well, I bet you can't do pullups. I do like twenty pullups. And and I'm staring them down the whole time. I was like, this is light work. Uh, and they're like, they're like, oh, yeah, you got what it takes to be a marine. Uh, just get on this computer and take this ASVAB or take this test. And I didn't know, I didn't know, uh, that that. That test was gonna determine what jobs I had available. I had a date. I had to be somewhere. So I chose C for every one of them.

• 1:10:33Speaker 03

  And like, okay, uh, you felt that miserably? It was just like a mock test where they got the answers right away. And they're like, you need to come back. You need to study and come back when you're better prepared. Uh, we recommend going to the library, checking out an ASVAB book. I was like, whatever, I'm gonna go on my date. So I go, uh, meet up with my girlfriend at the time and whatever, didn't didn't think anything of it. Uh, the next day I go back, I was like, well, I'm, I'll redo the ASVAB. And I go in there and I was like, what job am I gonna get? And they're like, well, it's not up to you, you know, we we go based off the needs of the marine, the marine or the needs of the Navy. And I was like, what's that mean? They're like, well, you can recommend to be X, Y, and Z, but at the end of the day.

• 1:11:16Speaker 03

  It's it's the marine that's gonna determine where you end up. I was like, I don't want that. I I want to do what I sign up for. So I walk out and I walk right next door to the army recruiting. And on on this day, I didn't have anywhere to be, so I took my time. I I talked to the recruiter and. They're they're talking way too much. Uh, I stopped listening after so many words and I do the ASVAB and he he comes back with a binder, like literally this big. I scored like a one eleven on the GT and. He's like, you have so many jobs available for you? Like, uh, what are you trying to do? I was like, I don't know, man. I just want to have a future for after the military and I the military sets you up for that. He's like, oh, well.

• 1:11:56Speaker 03

  If you want the uh eighty-eight mic or this nuclear something, I don't even remember what the title was. I just remember hearing nuclear. I was like. I was like, what do you do? He's like, well, the truck driver, you just drive trucks, but it's kind of dangerous, you know, you could get shot at and stuff. I was like, I don't want that. I don't want to get shot at that.

• 1:12:14Speaker 03

  And uh, he's like, well, you scored high in a, I was like, what about infirmary? And at the time I had a more of an accent and he he automatically assumed I said infantry. I thought I was gonna be a medic. And and he's he's talking about, he's like, oh, yeah, infantry. Uh, we have this thing called an option forty and he's like, I was like, what's that? He's like, oh, you get to do airborne and he keeps talking. I hear airborne. I was like, ooh, jumping out of a plane sounds awesome. That's all I needed to hear. I I didn't hear anything else he said. He explained what a ranger was. I was like, and at the end of it, once I done, once I was done daydreaming, I asked him, I was like, were you a ranger? He's like, oh, no, me? I could never. I was like, I could do it. Uh, I'll take that one. So I get an option forty, uh, ranger assessment selection.

• 1:12:59Speaker 03

  But it changed from RIP from your generation, but I get that and I didn't know what what I was signing up for. It wasn't until like, uh, until like, you do like your PT test and you get to talk to other people that are in the recruitment process. And they're asking me, I was like, what'd you sign up for? I was like, infirmary. They're like. You're a medic? I was like, I think so. I was like, I got an option forty. What's that mean? And they explained it. They explained it a little better and I I still didn't really understand. I just knew that I wanted to jump out of airplanes. Cause it sounded cool. But I I just didn't really care, you know, it's like, they're like, oh, you signed up for infantry, bro. I was like, what's that? What's what's the difference between that and a medic? They're like. You get to deploy, you get to go to all these cool places. Uh, I was like, sick. I was like, that that sounds even better than what I signed up for.

• 1:13:45Speaker 03

  So, uh, this whole time, you know, I'm I'm maxing PT test just because I'm holding myself to the the highest standard, you know, they're like, oh, you only need to get. Whatever eighty percent and I was like, but why would I do that when I could get a hundred percent? Not knowing some people are just not capable of reaching that standard and like just egotistical. So every time I go there, you know, I I'm the first one to run back after the two miles. I'm I'm staring the recruiter in this face, be like, ah, yeah, this is light work. I could do this all day and they do their little hazing sessions. I was like, this is cute. Is this what the military is like? This is gonna be easy. And the whole time they're like, you're not gonna make it. You're not gonna make it past, uh. Past basic. I was like, watch me and.

• 1:14:28Speaker 03

  Uh, on the day I'm supposed to ship out, haven't told anyone. Uh, no one knows about this. No one knows I I signed up for the military. No one knows I've been going to. The the PT test. Uh, I haven't told anyone because, you know. It was around this time that I got my heart broken by by my, at the time, girlfriend. It was like, you know what? I hate this place. I never want to come back here ever again. And so like, it just all lined up to where. On on the day I shipped out to MEPS, uh, I I asked my mom and dad, I was like, can you guys give me a ride to recruiting station? And they're like, why? They're like, you want to join the military? I was like, I'll tell you when we get there. So we get there and they pull up to the very front, the no parking zone. I was like, ah, ah, cause I I I had some bags with me. I was like, oh, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do something. I'll tell you when I get there.

• 1:15:12Speaker 03

  I had I had my bags packed and everything. I was I was ready to go. And once I got out the car, I I look at my mom and my dad and I was like, I'm leaving for the military today. And they just start breaking down, crying. They're like, why are you leaving us? We need you here. We need the support. Cause like I was doing like landscaping, you know, I was helping with my brothers and sisters and stuff. I was like, you guys told me I had to get out eighteen. I'm just doing exactly what you guys told me. I leave today. I leave today and I'm not, I'm not coming back until I get leave. And I did, I I got on the MEPS and.

• 1:15:47Speaker 03

  I had a, I had another girlfriend. Uh, this one, this one broke my heart. It was it was a military girlfriend. She was also enlisting at the same time. And and it was just that young, young dumb love where like. Like for two months we were talking and we'd go on dates and stuff and. We're like, oh, we'll send each other's letters, you know, we'll keep in touch, we'll make this work, et cetera. So he gets a basic training and. I don't know. If you have any questions, I'll let you shoot.

• 1:16:15Jack Murphy?

  No, uh, I mean, you write in the in the your memoir that is unpublished thus far. I mean, you write about. Uh, some very like common typical experiences that I think like we all had. When we joined the military, you talk about the bus ride from the airport to Fort Benning and it's deathly quiet. Everyone pretending they're not afraid of what's about to happen. And uh, thirtieth AG, the holding area, holding facility before you go to basic.

• 1:16:45Jack Murphy?

  I mean, why why don't you finish the story about your army girlfriend and then we'll jump forward to rasp?

• 1:16:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, so so this one hurt me. So I I don't know how you, if you know how letters work, they they take a really long time to get to the person. And if you break up with someone, you're still sending a couple more letters before they've broken up with you. So we we sent like two or three letters back and forth that were like positive and in basic training, she found someone else and I get the Dear John letter. And at this point I had sent like a letter like once a week. So there was like six or seven, there was a couple of letters that were like. Still like, I love you, you know, we're gonna work it out, we're gonna figure this out. And once I get that letter, you know, I I I go full rage mode, all caps. So it's like, I hate you, you're a terrible person.

• 1:17:33Speaker 03

  You you're the reason, like, it just it just fueled the rage I already had inside of me. It was just, it was just more motivation for me. And it was just like, well, I I had to prove her wrong too now. Like, it just gave me more fuel, but. Uh, basic is where I learned what option forty was, you know, at the time. Someone finally explained it to me. I finally took the time to actually listen.

• 1:17:58Speaker 03

  And it was like, oh, you get to go do airborne and most people felt that. I was like, that that couldn't be me. I've never felt anything in my life. Just very egotistical and. I I they explained to me, you do airborne, you go to ranger assessment selection and then you get to the ranger regiment. I was like, when do I become a ranger? They're like, well, once you pass the the assessment selection. I was like, cool. I was like, how long is that? They they told me the time like a sweet, uh, so what? I just, it's just a time thing. I just stay here and wait? Cool. And and I I do, I I pass, uh, I think I was like undergrad in basic training. I get a piece of paper for it. It it's not that impressive, but.

• 1:18:41Speaker 03

  Uh, I get that and like the PT award, I had like a three twenty something. I I maxed. Just about every PT test except one where they hazed those right before the PT test and I still got like. I still, I still passed, but it was like, in my mind, I failed because I didn't max it, even though we were like destroyed the day before and like right before we took the test. And I was just so egotistical, you know how like you get the the pace guy, the. The instructor who's pacing you on the run. I'd run next to him and I didn't know you could pass him. I I didn't know you could pass the paceman until like a couple of months in, cause I would just run right behind him, cause I didn't want to get in trouble by passing him.

• 1:19:21Speaker 03

  And one day, once I like finally get comfortable in in the environment, I'm talking to him while he's dying, he's like trying as hard as to run as fast as he he can. And I was like, do you mind if I go ahead? Go ahead? And he just looks at me, he's like, you can run faster. I was like, yeah, I've been running at your pace this whole time. And he's like, yeah, go ahead. So I just take off in like a sprint and that's when like I actually started like trying harder than. Like, cause I, cause I was told just be a gray man, like, you know, just just blend into the background. I was like, why would I do that? If if I want to be the best, I gotta be better than the guy in front of me. And it was always a competition between me and my good friend that also ended up being a morgue.

• 1:20:02Speaker 03

  A short little guy did track and field his whole life and he was just fast. He was like four foot nothing and quick for no reason. I was like, you should not be able to run this quick. Your legs are not as long as mine, but it was always between him and I on who was running faster. But I just kept that mentality of, you know, this sucks, but there's there's someone hurting more, you know, just looking back and seeing everyone else struggle fueled me. As messed up as that sounds, but just seeing someone suffer more than me, it was like, oh, they're gonna quit before me. I'm not quitting today. I'll I'll wait for them to quit. And sometimes they'd quit and a lot of times they wouldn't. And it's like, well, if they're not quitting, I'm not quitting either.

• 1:20:42Speaker 03

  I'll quit till that person quits. And if that person quit, I'll be like, I'll quit till that person quits, you know, someone in in my mind who was weaker than me. But but that got me through airborne school. Airborne school was honestly not that hard. The thing I hated most was being in a harness and having to pee so bad. That like you're just holding it for so long. And then you get in trouble for when you land immediately just peeing. It's like, I had to pee for like eight hours. What do you want from me? But that that's like the most memorable thing. And just like the constant running and cadence is like, this is, this is not hard, you know, I've been, I've been preparing for this run, run scenario this whole time.

• 1:21:21Speaker 03

  But what what I saw is fear got people the most, you know, people were quitting before they even started. It's like, why? It's not even hard yet.

• 1:21:30Jack Murphy?

  You you must have seen that at RASP also, right? That, you know, when even before you start the course, there are people just like standing in formation and they VW, but it's just fear of the unknown, really.

• 1:21:44Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, you were there, you you held the your bags over your head and someone came out there and screamed at you and they said they'd be right back and they lied to you. They were not right back.

• 1:21:58Speaker 03

  You're standing there for hours, just waiting for them to come back and you're like, oh gee, I don't care. Like they'd say, like, keep it off your head. I'm putting it on my head. I don't care. You're not, you're not checking in on me. I am gonna do whatever I can to make this as easy as possible.

• 1:22:12Jack Murphy?

  I I just remember they would, they would put us in the front leaning rest on that basketball court. When it was like blazing hot in the summer, so your hands are getting all burned and you're like doing this, pissing out, oh. And then the instructor will come in and they'll see you squirming and like, okay, you get in the iron chair. And to this day, like when I go to like a CrossFit gym or something and they they have you do the iron chair, it's like a fucking exercise. I'm like, this is bullshit, torture. This is what this is, this was a corrective measure in the military. What the hell is this?

• 1:22:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:22:46Speaker 03

  The the what got me through it was like just focusing on something else that hurt. Like when you're like in that front leaning rest, like for us, it was on the rocks and like the rocks start hurting. So I just like shifted my hands like back and forth just to like hurt somewhere else. And I was like, all right, this doesn't hurt as much anymore. Let me focus on something else that's hurting. But for that mentality is really what I would focus on when I was struggling, you know, it's like, what else is hurting? What's hurting less? And it just helped me get my mind off the one thing that was burning. And it was in airborne school that I learned that I could just fake it. I could just fake being tired. So I'd be there just shaking and then they'd come relieve me. They'd make me do another exercise. I'm like, well, I'm just gonna do that until I get bored of it and then I'm gonna fake that too.

• 1:23:30Speaker 03

  So I just did that. And so like, once I like, I would never be fully exhausted because you know, then they push you past that. So like, I was like, I'm always gonna have something in reserves. They're never gonna know the whole story. But but that that helped me a lot and for whatever reason, I was never caught. And I guess I was just that convincing on my shaking, like, ah, I can't do it anymore. But I was never caught on it, so I just kept doing it. But like RASP wasn't that hard for me because of that, because I was cheating. I was not going a hundred percent every time. Because I didn't see the purpose behind it. Because if I went, I went a hundred percent like the first week and I was like, why am I doing this to myself? They're not, they're not watching me.

• 1:24:11Speaker 03

  You know, there's other people in the front leaning rest position that are just laying on the ground. I was like, I'm gonna join them. They seem way more comfortable than what we're doing.

• 1:24:20Speaker 03

  But yeah, that got through RASP very, I I personally didn't think it was hard. And it was just because I was I was cutting corners everywhere. I saw corners, you know.

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• 1:26:29Speaker 03

  Obviously, there's some things where you just have to do them, you know, obstacle courses, PT tests. At the time, I was running like a 30 minute five miles, so I was, I was very quick on my feet.

• 1:26:41Speaker 03

  And, you know, you get to the end of it and you get to put in your picks on where you want to go. I put first bat, second bat, third bat, in that order. I wanted to go to the beach. I did not want to go to Washington State where it rained all the time. That's all I ever heard was like, oh, it rains all the time there. You know, suicide rate is super high. I was like, I don't want that. That sounds like a terrible time. And then third bat, you know, it's it's really close to the flagpole. They're buried by the book, you know, and it's like, I don't want that either. And, you know, first bat's usually the, they're the chill ones. Everyone's talking good about. I was like, I want to be first bat. But unfortunately, every mortar went to second bat. Every, all the guys I

• 1:27:22Speaker 03

  I knew, we all ended up going to second bat. And it was pretty cool because it was a group of like eight of us. It was a big group of mortars that went together. And I don't know if you got questions, shoot them.

• 1:27:33Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, man.

• 1:27:34Speaker 03

  Just go into regiment.

• 1:27:34Jack Murphy?

  So yeah, tell us about what it was like showing up at regiment and especially like being a new guy in mortar section, I think is particularly horrifying, as I recall.

• 1:27:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, it was, it was not pretty. I thought I made it at this point, you know, I thought people were gonna chill the fuck out for for once. And I get there. I get there and, you know, I have, I have this big black duffel bag that has all my personal belongings, you know, I picked up a lot of things along the way because I didn't have money before and now I did. So I had this massive like suitcase style bag and I had two other duffel bags. And we get dropped off at the front headquarters, the main building reception, essentially. And we're just standing there in parade rest, waiting for whoever, I don't know who. And I I vividly remember just standing there like, it's like, all these guys look so angry. Who pissed these guys off?

• 1:28:30Speaker 03

  Everyone I looked at would just mean mug me. And naturally, I'm a happy person, so I tried to smile at them and they're like, they'd just be like, what the fuck are you looking at? I was like, oh shit, I'm not allowed to smile here. So I I just stopped smiling. It's like, all right, they don't want me to smile. And and it was at that time, someone said tab check and I had no idea what a tab check was. So the, so I was like, so I started looking around and I was like, I don't see a tab anywhere. And the guy's like, start doing pushups. I was like, okay. So I started doing pushups, you know, normal level pushups. He's like, have you been to Ranger School? I was like, I don't think so, no. He's like, elevate your fucking feet. I was like, okay. So I put them on my bag. And he's like, have you been to mountains? That's not high enough. I was like,

• 1:29:13Speaker 03

  what do you want me to do? There's nothing else around. So like, there's like a decorative like mortar tube out out front. So I put my feet on that and he started screaming at me again. He's like, that's not high enough. Put them higher. So I was like, well, there's nothing else to put my feet on. So I'm just gonna put them against the wall and work my way up. And at this point, I'm pretty much doing like straight vertical pushups. And I I kept going until everyone else stopped. He's like, how many did you do? I was like, I don't know, I wasn't counting. He's like, you're supposed to do 25 and one for the airborne ranger in the sky. I was like, okay. I was like, do you want me to start over? And he's like, no, just recover. Don't look at me. I was like, okay. So I go back to parade rest. And I was like, that guy was mean. I don't, I don't like that guy.

• 1:29:56Speaker 03

  It turns out it was one of the mortar team leaders, but I didn't know that at the time and one of the mortar guys, you get your, your typical hazing ritual, you know, get screamed at, grab your bags, get to the barracks, unpack your shit and then meet back up at regiment and get your hazing ritual out of the way. For whatever reason, they decided against it. I don't know why. They're just like, oh, we're busy today. We're not gonna do it today. We'll do it tomorrow. I was like, okay, what do you want me to do? They're like, oh, just check in tomorrow. I was like, sweet, I get a day off.

• 1:30:33Speaker 03

  But the next day wasn't, wasn't, wasn't so nice. They were mean to me, believe it or not.

• 1:30:39Jack Murphy?

  I can also see, I can see you being a bit of a leadership challenge also. Bringing some of your criminal mastermind skills to Ranger Battalion.

• 1:30:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, I I was always a, I always liked the challenge of like egoing people, you know, it's. I am gonna outperform you. I don't care how big or how strong you think you are. I'm gonna try to outrun you. I am gonna outpace you. And I vividly remember going on a gas mask run and I am trying my fucking hardest. Like I cannot breathe with this gas mask on. And one of my team leaders that I know is slower than me, I know for a fact I am faster than him just based off P T test. I am faster than him bu- by a lot, you know, I was running like eleven minute two miles. And he's, he's not struggling and I'm so confused for the longest time. Like, we would run around the airfield, which was five miles.

• 1:31:31Speaker 03

  And he did it like it was nothing and I was, I was dying. I was right behind him, but I, I was hurting, you know, I was, I was gasping for air. And I was struggling and I just couldn't understand how he did it. Well, come to find out years later, when he got out the military, he hollowed out his canister so he could breathe normally. And meanwhile, I'm breathing through a filter and I was like, no wonder you were so much faster than me. I'm over here just fighting for my life and you're just casually jogging. But, but I, I handed that down to the next guy so he can use it on the next generation. But, but yeah, I was, I was always just egoing everyone. It was like, you, you can try to hurt me, but there's nothing. Like, I know it's gonna end at some point and you're gonna get bored before I do.

• 1:32:16Speaker 03

  And they learned, my leadership learned real quick that it didn't work that, it didn't work for me, you know, like, uh. They put me with more of father figures instead of people that were gonna. Train you, corrective action you, cuz I, I was very smart, you know, you told me. How to do something, I, I'd memorize it, I'd go back to my barracks room and study it, that way I don't make the same mistake twice. And I, I very rarely got in trouble because of that, you know, I, I studied max distances, ranges, all that. Because you know, you get quizzed on it. Airborne Ranger in the Sky was something that kind of, I didn't understand, you know. They, they made me pick one and then they're like, remember these facts about it and obviously I'm autistic.

• 1:32:57Speaker 03

  So I remembered exactly what they told me, that I could remember the name, remember what beer he likes and remember his family. I was like, okay, that's easy, I can remember that. I already remembered it just by you telling me it. And that was it and I was questioned then a, a couple of times and then after that, it just, it just fell off, you know. And.

• 1:33:15Speaker 03

  I, I was blessed in the sense where I never lost anyone close, super close to me. Yeah, I lost a couple of people I knew, but. I, I never, never got to experience luckily that part of it, you know, where you lost your, your best friend or whatever. And I just didn't understand why, by that tradition fell off and like from in my generation, you know. Even I, when I became a team, team leader, we, we didn't really enforce it, you know, you had to have an airborne ranger in the sky. You did an extra push up for him, but that was pretty much it.

• 1:33:44Jack Murphy?

  It might have been because the, because the war was kind of bleeding off and, you know, thankfully, I mean, it's a good thing, we weren't losing as many people.

• 1:33:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, uh, I, I honestly don't know, but I, I think that's one thing where like, uh, you, you forget. The history part of it, it just repeats itself.

• 1:34:03Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, I, I mean, I agree. When I first got to battalion, uh. My, my airborne ranger in the sky was Roy Brown, who was a ranger that died in Panama in eighty nine.

• 1:34:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, I had a.

• 1:34:18Speaker 03

  I, I forget the rank, but he was a mortar in First Battalion Lance. But, but like, I didn't know much about him, you know, one of my squad leaders was the first battalion guy that knew him personally. And, and I tried to pry just because, you know, you can only find so much information online and I'd, I'd go out drinking with, with, uh. My squad leader and I'd go out to his house, work on cars, do man stuff, you know, get drunk and work on cars. But, but he'd never talk about it, you know, I, I, I asked him, you know, I was like, can, can you tell me more? Like, I'm actually curious, you know, I wanna know. Like, what kind of person he was, etc. He's like, nah, man, it hurts so much to talk about. He's like, I, I just avoid it, to be honest. I was like, alright, I won't ask you again. And it was like, well. Uh, why, why aren't we talking about it? You know, if it, it hurts you that much.

• 1:35:03Jack Murphy?

  Right.

• 1:35:03Speaker 03

  Obviously you need help. But, but that, that was the mentality and. It, it's crazy to me because I didn't start drinking until after Ranger School. If you wanna, I'll cover Ranger School, but.

• 1:35:15Jack Murphy?

  I mean, didn't you go, uh, you got deployed to Afghanistan first, didn't you?

• 1:35:19Speaker 03

  Correct.

• 1:35:19Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, tell, tell us about, what, what year did you get deployed to Afghanistan?

• 1:35:24Speaker 03

  I wanna see, it, it was very early on, twenty fourteen, I believe. Sorry, I wrote him on my flag so I wouldn't forget. This, this is the flag, Afghanistan in twenty fifteen.

• 1:35:38Jack Murphy?

  Twenty fifteen, cool. Okay, so, um, where in Afghanistan did you get deployed and what was sort of the mission at that time?

• 1:35:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, it, it was a, a gentleman's deployment, you know, I don't know if you know where Scorpion is. But it, it was a training mission more than anything. Like, we were just training the partner forces, we, we spun up for Q R F a couple of times, but we didn't actually get to do anything, um.

• 1:36:03Jack Murphy?

  This is when you guys were working with the, uh, K K A?

• 1:36:07Speaker 03

  Correct.

• 1:36:08Jack Murphy?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, um, sorry, um, just for timeline wise, you know, you fly into Erbil and. From there, you get your briefing, you know?

• 1:36:18Jack Murphy?

  No, you, you flew into Kabul or Bagram.

• 1:36:22Speaker 03

  Kabul.

• 1:36:23Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:36:24Speaker 03

  Sorry, they all, they all blend in together.

• 1:36:26Jack Murphy?

  I know, I know they do.

• 1:36:29Speaker 03

  But we flew there and then, you know, you're there for a couple of days and that, that was the first time I, we got mortared, you know, and. I got to see R two D two on steroids in action. I forget what the actual name is, the C RAM, I think it's what it's called.

• 1:36:41Jack Murphy?

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 1:36:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, but we're there and all these sirens start going off and they, they briefed us already, you know, you gotta go to one of the shelters if you hear these sirens. And me being the noise, the, the noisy kid I was, you know, I was like, I don't wanna go to a shelter, I wanna see the round explode. So I stayed outside the bunker waiting for this round to explode and all I hear is the, the C RAM, R two D two is what, cuz he looks like R two D two. I, I just see the, the tracer of, of rounds, you know, the. Through the air and it shoots a round out of the sky and I was like, that was cool, what was that? And I asked my P L and he explained it to me. He's like, yeah, there's like a bunch of rounds in between those tracers, so it's just shooting a wall lead at the mortar rounds. I was like, that's cool, we can't die here then if we have that thing protecting us.

• 1:37:26Speaker 03

  Like, I truly believe like, there, there was no way in the world where, there was no world where we actually lost cuz we trained so hard. But we get our briefing to go to wherever and this is where I start seeing some of like the shadier side of stuff. Uh, we're, we're a convoy, we're attached to a, just a platoon of infantrymen, you know. And I was, as a mortar, you know, you're always with the weapons squad and. We're in the Humvee and we're test firing the fifty cows before we leave the base and. I remember seeing the antenna getting shot off. I, I was there, I saw the sparks hit the, hit the antenna and.

• 1:38:11Speaker 03

  They, they, they shot it, it was just dangling and I guess no one, no one else saw it or no one else wanted to admit it. I don't know, I truly don't. But we do our convoy and we take contact, we take contact, I truly don't know. Someone said we got shot at, I don't believe it, but, but, uh, one of our windows and not in the vehicle I was in was. Uh, one of the other vehicles took a round to a window and that, that antenna was part of the evidence they used to get their C I Bs. And I was talking to my t- team leader and he's like. We can put in for it, but personally, I'm not going to, you know, I don't agree with that, uh, I, I wanna earn it, you know, if I get a C I B.

• 1:38:51Speaker 03

  I, I want it to be something that I did, you know, something that, something that was respectable, respectable. So we did, we didn't put in for C I Bs at deployment and, uh. The P L, you know, all the nerds got their C I Bs based off, you know, being mortared in, in a safe base and getting, uh, taking contact. But like, we didn't shoot back, we didn't, we didn't really do much. Uh, there, there was. It was, it was a very boring deployment, like honestly, I, I thought I was gonna be kicking in doors, you know. I was gonna be dropping rounds on people's heads, that's what I signed up for, that's what I was, that's what I've been training to do. And, you know, they talked it up to where, you know, your Q R F, you, you might get spun up at some point and you might have to do.

• 1:39:33Speaker 03

  You might have to drop rounds. I, I was a sixty team at that, at that time. I was a, I was just an ammo bearer, you know.

• 1:39:39Jack Murphy?

  Do you wanna real quick just explain for, um, people watching this, if they're not familiar? That you guys have the sixty, the eighty one and the hundred and twenty, and kind of like what, what those systems are?

• 1:39:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, so the sixty millimeter mortar system, you could just Google it, look at a picture, there's two, two versions of it, there's a handheld version. And it has a way more limited range, I wanna say it's like thirteen hundred, don't quote me on the numbers, but it's, it's, it's not that far. And, uh, that's just handheld it, that's because if you shoot any, uh, higher charge, you're gonna break your hand. So then, then there's a conventional version, which is just more weight they have to carry, it has a bipod and a base plate that are bigger and support the recoil of the round. Uh, with a heavier charge. A charge is just like a, a gunpowder, makes the round go further. But that's what I was, I was, I was on the sixty team for that deployment.

• 1:40:31Speaker 03

  Uh, and then there's what's called an eighty one millimeter mortar system, the, the millimeter is just the, the, the size of the round. So sixty millimeter, uh, eighty one and one twenties are the, the three the U S uses. And I, I've been a part of all of it, but for this deployment, I was just a ammo bearer for a sixty team. And, and we just trained, we, we trained the partner forces, we, we got to watch some tanks shoot, shoot other tanks, like just in training scenarios. Um, we, we got spun up for Q R F, we got on the plane and we, we flew around and. We, we, we never touched ground, so it, it was more of a just a.

• 1:41:09Speaker 03

  Peace, peaceful mission, you know, we, we went on runs, we, we climb mountains. It was honestly like. For military, that was some of the, the best times I had was. I, I was left to my own vices, you know, no one was micromanaging me, no one was screaming at me. I got to talk to like O D A teams, other, other operators that were working out in the gym and. What they did sounded cool too. I was like, that, that sounds like more fun and like uh. O D A teams, uh. I don't know what, what they call themselves now, but they were going by Gable Stone at the time. They, they'd be walking through and. I was like, those guys are so cool. They don't have to wear anything. What are they, what do they do? Oh, like, oh, they're contractors. I was like, what's that?

• 1:41:51Speaker 03

  And they explained like, you know, contractors versus Delta and it was like, which one's which? They're like, we don't know. I was like, what do you mean? You don't know? Don't they work for us? Like, yes and no. They, they kind of just do their own thing. I was like, well. Uh, that, that looks like fun. I want to do that instead, but. That deployment, you know, I, I got to do a lot of like just working out and just, just practicing, you know, you get unlimited ammo. And you get to just, just be there, you know, you get to enjoy the time you're there, especially on like. A deployment where it's just uh. Maintaining peace rather than being the frontline. We, we were Q R F, you know. We, they, they never really needed us because we never got spun up.

• 1:42:30Jack Murphy?

  And when uh you got home, you're a little bit saltier now and they sent you off to Ranger School.

• 1:42:38Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah, and I was the, the only mortar that deployed uh that year. Uh, there was only one slot for deployment and they picked me uh. Probably because I was one of the tryhards, you know? I was always trying to prove everyone else that, like, I was trying to prove it more to myself that I'm better than everyone else, but. In turn proved to everyone else that I'm better than them. But yeah, they. Uh, my team later told me I was gonna go to Ranger School when I got back. He's like, he's gonna make it happen. I was like, okay. I was like. I was like, I don't want to go, but like, can you like just talking, give me some advice. He's like, yeah. Quit tomorrow. I was like, what do you mean quit tomorrow? He's like, well, whenever you feel like quitting, just, just tell yourself you'll quit tomorrow. And then when you wake up tomorrow, tell yourself the same thing.

• 1:43:22Speaker 03

  I was like, I was like, that doesn't make sense. He's like, no, no, you'll understand when you get there. I was like, whatever. So I, I get, I get, I run into a lot of problems because of my mouth.

• 1:43:34Speaker 03

  And. At, at the time, I didn't know I had a lot of things I wasn't. Like, I didn't know I had like a lot of uh issues I, I haven't dealt with, like uh sleep apnea, uh. P T S D, anxiety, depression, uh, there, there wasn't a label for, for it yet. I was, I was just very young. And I go to pre ranger and while I'm there, you know, I'm, I'm still being myself, ego through the fucking roof and challenging people. It's like. There were, I, I vividly remember getting into arguments with the first bat mortars, me being a little bit more salty, you know, I deployed and. They were undeployed. It's like, you guys don't know what you're talking about. I'm better than you, you know, second bat's the best bat. Just, just your generic egotistical arguments.

• 1:44:15Speaker 03

  And I, I took it a step further, you know, I, I called them out and I was like, uh, we're at coal range and. For those of you that don't know, it's just a suck fest. They, they make you walk forever. They, you do pushups, they, you, you. Set up a triangle where you just, you're essentially camping on steroids and they're hurting your feelings the whole time, but. Uh, when I'm out there, I, I had enough, you know, I'm mad that I'm here. I'm mad that these guys are poking me all the time. And finally, I, I go to this kid and I was like. If you want to fight me, bro, I'll meet you at the patrol base after, afterwards. Like, like full ego, like I'm ready to throw, throw hands with this and. He didn't show up. He didn't want to fight. Uh.

• 1:45:02Speaker 03

  I, I honestly don't remember that, that part too clearly.

• 1:45:04Jack Murphy?

  Show up at the P B tonight is a pretty good line though.

• 1:45:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, I don't, I don't remember, but I, I, what I do remember is that. The, my, my uh squad after peers hated me because of it, just because I was always trying to. Ego everyone, talking shit to everyone and one thing that did me in was uh, I had sleep. I couldn't sleep, like uh, I slept so heavily that I couldn't be woken up for one of my night shifts. And finally I woke up and they're like, bro, you had fire guard. I was like. Why didn't you wake me up? Like, we tried, you wouldn't wake up. I was like, well, I'll just go do it now then. And I stayed up with the next group and. They're like, well, you didn't do it with your actual group, so. Uh, you know, you're a piece of shit because of it. I was like, whatever, man, I don't care. Your words can't hurt me. You're a bitch. Fuck you.

• 1:45:51Speaker 03

  Uh, but then I get, I get peered out. Uh, we go to peers and I'm bottom of the totem pole. And I'm making my argument at this point, you know, I, I'm, I'm very coppering because I, I've been studying like just laws and stuff, uh. Rules and regulations. I had them all memorized. And uh, it was a losing argument for me. There, there was no world where I won that. Just because they had that, that evidence of, you know, you're trying to fight people, you're. You're arguing with instructors, you're missing uh time hacks by sleeping in. And it's like, I, I couldn't wake up. It wasn't like, they're like, oh, you woke up and then you just rolled over. It's like, I don't know what to tell you, man. I, I don't remember that. And uh, I, I vividly remember talking to.

• 1:46:35Speaker 03

  The, the douchebag in charge and. Uh, we're having a one-on-one and he's like, he's just going off on me. He's like, oh, you're a piece of shit. You're, you're not made for regiment. You're never gonna. You're never gonna be a ranger. You're gonna go straight back. You're gonna be a nobody. I was like, okay. I was like, what are my options? He's like, it's not up to you. It's up to your command sergeant major. You're lucky he's in town. I'm gonna talk to him tonight. I was like, okay, I'll go back to the barracks and hang out. So like, oh, oh, that class left, you know, it was just me and the empty barracks all by myself, fucking miserable, so lonely in there, just contemplating life is like. How did I fail this? You know, I, I studied patrol bases, I studied tactics, I studied for Ranger School, I memorized the whole fucking book.

• 1:47:16Speaker 03

  And like down to the snares. I, I studied it so hard just because I wanted to be that prepared. But uh, he talks to my co- command sergeant major and uh. He, he comes in, in, in my lonely barracks where I'm just by myself sitting on my bunk and like the rest of the bunks are completely empty. It is so quiet in there. And you know, I stand up, go to parade arrest and I was just like. How's it going, command sergeant major? And he's like, sit down, ju- just, just talk to me. And I, I tell him exactly what happened. He's like. That's why they want to send you back? I was like, yeah, what'd they tell you? I was like, what's your side of the story? He's like. It's, it's a lot more different than what you said, but. Uh, I, I think you should have another chance. Uh, you're just gonna stay here and recycle.

• 1:47:59Speaker 03

  And this was pre ranger. This wasn't even Ranger School yet. I had lost, I had lost twenty pounds already from that pre ranger class. And. So I had to do it again. I had to do pre ranger again. And.

• 1:48:15Speaker 03

  I want to name drop this asshole so bad, but uh, the, the guy in charge, I, I won't name drop him because. I should let it go. I don't want to. I'm not ready to let it go yet just because I, I'm still mad about it. But he put me in charge, you know, I was the, the, the, the platoon leader. I was, I was the guy that was getting in trouble. I was the dude that had to stand there while the rest of the class got hazed just to build that resentment. But uh, I just got my head down. I sucked it up, you know, I was like, there's, there's no winning these arguments. I just have to do exactly what they ask of me and. The second time is always easier just because you know exactly what's gonna happen. So I do, I keep my head down. Uh, I, I help people where I can, you know, it's like, oh, I already did this, you know, th- th- this is what we're gonna do. These, these are the objectives we're hitting tonight. I know exactly what we're doing. We should approach this way and this way and.

• 1:49:00Speaker 03

  Uh, this was when like uh leadership changed and I was in leadership roles. It was like, I know, I know the best way to hit this because I've done it. And, and I ended uh graduating that time, go to. Unfortunately, go to Ranger School and at this point, you know, I've lost like twenty-five pounds. It is insane. You send me to go to Ranger School and then you starve me before I get starved. It makes zero sense in my mind, but. Uh, I'll let you ask the question you want to ask.

• 1:49:25Jack Murphy?

  I, I'm uh, I, I'm not here to uh throw any shade because I had an extended deployment at Ranger School myself. Um, I, I was at Von's Platoon out there at Camp Darby long enough. I thought they were gonna rename it Murphy's Platoon. Uh, but uh, you had a, you had an extended stay in Ranger School as well, didn't you?

• 1:49:45Speaker 03

  Sure did. Yeah, it didn't stop for me there, so. Uh, you get to Darby and I'm still, I'm still like egotistical, you know, I'm still trying to do like the most, you know, I'm asking like. Like, what do you guys need from me? Like. My problem was I wasn't asking the correct way. I, I was more of like. You're wrong and here's why. And you talk to a fresh P L who's fresh out of Ibo like and they've never been talked to the way I'm talking to them ever. You know, childhood. Military career, no, no one is as raw as a, a ranger from regiment and it's just like, you're wrong. You gotta do it this way or else we're gonna fucking walk through a swamp we don't have to walk through.

• 1:50:27Speaker 03

  And they're like, no, you just do the terrain model. Like, if that's what you guys want me to do, that's what I'll do. I'll go, I'll go build a terrain model. I'll go play with sand shore. And, and that's where they put me a lot of times was the terrain model just because they didn't want to listen to me in the planning phase. Unless I was in the leadership role, but like, it was for good intentions, you know, it was like. I don't want to suck more. I don't want to go through a river when, when there's a bridge. And they're like, yeah, no, but they're gonna be expecting that. I was like, I don't care. We'll, we'll, we'll, we'll fight them back, whatever. And they're like, no, we gotta go through the hardest part. That way they don't expect it. And even the casual would be like. You don't have to do that. You don't have to make this harder. They're like, you don't have to make this harder. Believe it or not, we have to go through the river too.

• 1:51:09Speaker 03

  He's like, you guys are gonna do, so, but like uh, I ended up getting peered out again and. This time I'm sitting in front of the first sergeant and I I've been I've done this before. I'm experienced, I'm weathered down, I know exactly what I need to say to not get in trouble. And I was just putting out my counter argument, I was like, first sergeant. Respectfully, these people are a bunch of bitches. They're they're, I heard their emotions and that's the reason I got peered out. And he just he just stared at me for a second and he looks at like the four officers that are in there and he's like, what does your guys decide? And they all go through and they're like, yeah, well, he he screams at us, he's always trying to like take control of everything. And like he doesn't respect the rank structure.

• 1:51:53Jack Murphy?

  There is no rank structure.

• 1:51:55Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's exactly what he said, he's like, stop, he's like, everyone is equal here, you guys are all fucking nobodies. And he looks at him, he's like, get the fuck out of here, go go back, you're going, you're going to, you're going to the next phase, I was like, sick. Uh, and I don't know if you, when you peer out, there's two groups, you know, there's there's the, or there's three groups, the people recycling, the people that quit and the people going to the next phase. And everyone was expecting me to go to the rec- the recycling group, so I started walking towards them. And then like I did a half right phase and then walked to to the boys.

• 1:52:29Speaker 03

  And they're all just happy to see me, they're like, oh, yes, we thought you got peered out, I thought that was the end for you. And that's the only phase I made, I made it straight through, uh. I get to mountains. Uh, yeah, mountains, it wasn't even my fault, uh. Mountains was just, it was raining way too much, it it was, it was freezing in the morning where like your sleeping bag is crusted over. And then it rained on like migrated patrols, so I ended up just failing patrols. So.

• 1:53:02Speaker 03

  And and it was in like, uh, it was in mountains where I had an ingrown toenail massive, it was like, uh, it it was hurt, like I I was, my socks were bleeding through and stuff. And I I went for like, I want to say it was like two weeks before I actually asked for help. And like, just because it hurt so bad, like I couldn't endure the pain anymore, and I finally asked the medic, I was like, can you take a look at my uh toenail, it hurts? And he's like, sure, and he like takes my sock off, it's all bloody and stuff, and he's like. You have an ingrown toenail, you know that, right? I was like, yeah, I know, I I just don't want to get recycled. He's like, they're not gonna recycle you, they're gonna cut it out and send you right back. I was like, yeah, but it's gonna, I need, I might have to go back to base and I'm probably gonna get recycled, I don't want to get recycled, I'd rather just suck it up for this phase.

• 1:53:44Speaker 03

  And he's like, no, you can't, I have to send you back, so like they send me back and they cut it out, it's it's literally the size of a quarter ingrown into my foot. And they're like, they're like, you were just walking with this? I was like, yeah, it fucking hurts. And and and they're like, you know, you didn't have to, I was like, no. I thought if I came over here, I'd get kicked out, and they sent me right back, they they're like, I get back to the group and it wasn't the the big deal I made it out to be. They they bandaged me up, they gave me like, uh, um, things for, to keep it from getting affected, so I just had to apply that. But like, I was just sucking for the love of the sport at that point, you know, there was no reason behind it. But I, yeah, I ended up failing mountains and that was the first time, you know, I actually got to refit.

• 1:54:29Speaker 03

  And I didn't know that you could just eat as much as you want. So in these re- refit phases, I was grabbing everything, you know, I was stacking my plate as high as I could and they're like, doesn't it hurt your stomach? I was like, yeah, but I'm gonna need it for the next phase. And like, you know, when you recycle, you have a million times more energy than anyone else. Because you you've been getting fed, you know, you didn't go through Darby, you didn't have that, you didn't have that reset. So the second time I go through mountains, I'm just, I'm just way more aware of everything going on and. I got lucky where we did a lot of patrols that we we've done before. I did this ambush, I know exactly how the layout is, so we're gonna do it exactly how I say, or else we're we're we're gonna fail this miserably.

• 1:55:12Speaker 03

  And luckily, this dude group listened a little more and. And they they were, they were a lot more respectful because it wasn't, it wasn't a LT heavy, you know, it was a lot of enlisted guys. So they were more willing to listen and this is where I I met a good friend that I lost contact with, he was a command sergeant major, he was fifty years old and. Uh, JSOC, he, I was like, what are you doing this for? I was like, no one want, yeah, he was super old and like, he he struggled a lot and. Uh, we were ranger buddies, we were always next to each other, just by design, I guess. And I saw him struggling and I was like, I was like, what hurts? He's like, bro, everything, I'm old, you know, this this isn't for me.

• 1:55:55Speaker 03

  I was like, how can I help you? He's like, he's like, honestly, if you take like the ropes and like, uh, the machine gun when I have it, I really appreciate it, I was like, of course, man. Like, I I I'll do anything to make this easier for you. And that's what I did, you know, I took the machine gun from him, I took his ropes, I took the special equipment every time he had it. And he he he like loved me for it, you know, just that mutual respect part of it, and he's like. When when we get out of here, if you ever need a favor, you know, I work for like the legal side of the the military, you you ever need a favor, you you got one, I was like.

• 1:56:27Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, that's that's a friend you need, uh, Eduardo.

• 1:56:31Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, definitely with the the way I was going. But but but I met him there and, uh, we get through mountains and then we get split up, we go to different platoons, so I I didn't see him again after that.

• 1:56:44Speaker 03

  And I I graduated that phase just because I did the same objective that I failed. So like I I had already gone over it in my head so many times, there's like, what could I have done better? And obviously, you know, don't go through the water, you know, set up, don't set up an ambush from the low ground, obviously. Don't shoot uphill, go around, take the high ground, just very generic, I was way too tired to come up with an actual plan. But, uh, second time, you know. I think I got peered out again, just because I was the new guy, but they they didn't care, that it it was more of a. You got peered out because you're the, you're the, you're the importer, you know, you you didn't grow up with these group of people.

• 1:57:29Speaker 03

  And I get to, uh, swamps, uh, and believe it or not, I recycled swamps. I recycled swamps because, uh, during one of my patrols, someone lost their nods in the water. And and it was because it wasn't tied down, wasn't even my fault, it wasn't up to me.

• 1:57:49Jack Murphy?

  You're responsible for everything the patrol does or fails to do.

• 1:57:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, I sure was, so. That's the reason I recycled that phase, that phase was honestly cool, like I liked like the talent show they did where like you you got to go look at snakes and stuff.

• 1:58:04Jack Murphy?

  Oh, when they, yeah, they pretend to throw the snake at you, yeah.

• 1:58:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, but I I like at that point, I was just, I lived there, you know, I'd been there for at this point, close to eight months, like. From pre ranger to that point, I'd been there for eight months, I I was starving, you know, I was super skinny, I was. I think I had lost like fifty pounds by by that phase. And, uh.

• 1:58:31Speaker 03

  No, I didn't even, uh, it was part of the reason that I recycled was the nods and then I got peered out. So I went to another board. I don't even know if it was the nods that got me that, I don't even think that was my patrol, but. I know that I I got in trouble for that, for whatever reason, it was like, ah, okay, I got, I think he was in my squad. When he lost his nods, but it wasn't my graded patrol, that's what it was. But I ended up getting peered out that phase too, and it was a lot of the same, it was, it was the way I talked to people, like. Uh, you're gonna listen because I am right and you are wrong and this is why.

• 1:59:04Jack Murphy?

  That went out well, yeah.

• 1:59:07Speaker 03

  Ca- uh, ca- ca- you think I'd learn, but I didn't. And and at this point, the the first sergeant that's sitting there, he he knows my background, he knows I've been there for way too long, he sees me, he's like. Brother, you're starving, you are not gonna be able to make it through this next phase. Uh, you're not gonna be able to recycle again, this is it, you you either pass swamps or you're done. I was like, well, I was like, I can only do the best I can, so I'll stay, he's like, he's like, you should go home, you know? A lot, a lot of people make it to this point and unfortunately, it's not for everyone. You should just hang up the hat, you know, you struggled enough, you you you proved, you proved, you proved to yourself that you could do it, I was like.

• 1:59:50Speaker 03

  No, I didn't, I I need, I need the, I need the badge, and he's like, well, I I know at the end of the day, you're you're gonna stay, but I tru- I truly believe you should go home, you know? I was like, I'm not doing it, but, uh, he's like, he's like, but if you fail this phase again, you you're done, I can't, I can't recycle you again, I was like, all right. Good enough for me, and I'm walking out, I'm bawling, man, like I didn't want to recycle again. Especially for peers, it's like, like helping, like. Trying to help the best I could and unfortunately, it was just the way I talked to people that that got me in trouble. But I did, I did recycle, I did it again, and this time I I'm I'm being way more strategic, I was like, well, I'm gonna make.

• 2:00:32Speaker 03

  Uh, two to three friends, you know, I'm gonna peer the highest at this point, you know, I'm I'm I'm, we're gonna do the peer triangle. And, uh, peer triangle, which just means where like, uh, in ranger school, you make like two or three friends, you guys peer each other number one. It's like a graded thing from first to last, and if you're first on like two or three of your friends, you can never be at the bottom. And and that that's just the scheme that people do while they're there. And I thought, I thought I did it, you know, I I did the phase again, it it was easy because I'd done it before. I made sure everyone's thing was tied down, double knotted, I checked every single one of them, I wasn't even the platoon leader, I was just checking them because I was traumatized. But, uh, no one lost nods, surprisingly.

• 2:01:16Speaker 03

  Um, I made it through and then I got peered out again.

• 2:01:25Speaker 03

  So, uh, uh, at this point, I'm defeated, you know, I'm done. Like, I, I, I have, I have nothing left. And there wasn't even like a, there wasn't even a peer board. It was just me and the first sergeant. And I was like, I was like, you don't have to explain it to me. I was like, I know, I know I'm done. If I'm in this office, uh, I, I shouldn't be in here. And if I'm in here, there's something wrong. He, he just looks at me and starts laughing. He's like, nah, I knew you were gonna peer out. He's like, you're good, man. Go get your tab. Get the fuck out of here. Bro, I start, I started bawling.

• 2:01:59Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, dude, if they, if they didn't give you your tab, they would have had to deal with you coming back to the school at some point. I mean, it's like, Jesus, get him out of here.

• 2:02:08Speaker 03

  Yeah. So this is where like graduation happens. And a- at this point, one of my biggest motivators was to prove that guy wrong that told me I wouldn't amount to anything in, uh, the pre-ranger. Yeah. And, and he comes up to me and he's like, oh, I knew you could do it. I, I, you always had it in you. I, I believed in you. And I just looked at him. I was like, can I get in the van and go home? I don't want to talk to you.

• 2:02:33Speaker 03

  Like, just, just trying to be as respectful as I can, because I know if I say something dumb, it's gonna get back to my leadership. But a- at some point, I slipped up and I don't remember what I said. I just remember I insulted him because like, I was just hurt so bad by like him doubting me. It, it was something along the lines of like, why the fuck you lying? You know, you didn't believe in, in me. You told me I wouldn't amount to shit. Yeah, here I am. I proved you wrong and now you're my friend. Fuck you. There was something along those lines. It wasn't that, well, word for word. It, it, it was that disrespectful, but it wasn't that. But, uh, I get my tab, you know, I, I get to fly back finally, starved,

• 2:03:13Speaker 03

  uh, got a new chip on my shoulder. Now, now he goes even higher through the roof. No one could even look in my direction without getting tab checked. Like, I am hurting everyone because I can now.

• 2:03:25Speaker 03

  You got any questions?

• 2:03:26Jack Murphy?

  Pain instills memory.

• 2:03:28Speaker 04

  Hello, everyone. If you're hearing this, uh, you are not a member of the Patreon. You can get your hands on ad-free episodes that come out early. And you can ask us questions. Maybe we'll answer them. You can also watch the Team House podcast completely ad-free and early. And you can also watch it live as we interview our guests.

• 2:03:49Speaker 04

  And it's the best way to support the channel. So if you can, if you're open to it, you can go to patreon.com slash the Team House. That link is in the description. Uh, we appreciate the supporters and we hope you would consider being one. So it's patreon.com slash the Team House. Thanks, guys.

• 2:04:06Jack Murphy?

  Back from Ranger School, freshly minted tab. Uh, you're gonna be a mortar team leader now and they deploy you to Syria.

• 2:04:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, uh, we do a training cycle. Uh, I do a training cycle as a team leader. Um, very generic. I mean, you've heard it hundreds of times, so I won't go over it, but. I was, I was a bully. I, I came up with this, this fun new 500 Fridays. Every Friday I will tab check you until you do 500 pushups. And it got to a point where I wasn't even tab checking them anymore. I was like, you guys keep each other accountable. Let me know when you guys done 500 pushups. And if you guys do them early, you could go home. Like, if, if there's, if it's allotted, I'll send you home. I don't care. But, but, but I was a bully, you know, and it was because, like, that's what I grew up with, you know, that's what I knew, you know, if.

• 2:04:55Speaker 03

  Like, I, I took these guys on runs just because I was fast. I, I knew that that was my domain. I could outrun you. You might be able to outlift me, but I can outrun you all day long. I am not gonna give up before you. And one of my first privates actually broke him. Um, I ran him to so hard that his liver gave out.

• 2:05:14Speaker 03

  I don't know how. It wasn't my fault. I was perfectly fine. I was drinking water. I guess he wasn't. But he ended up getting like hospitalized and they gave me a new private. Like, I, I didn't know why, uh, his liver gave out, but I, actually, he ended up recovering. I ended up deploying with him to Iraq, but that was down the road. But, uh, we get deployed to Syria and this is new and exciting, you know, no, we haven't been at war for a really long time. No, no one knows what it's gonna be like and even for me, like, I, I was excited to go, go back and actually get to do what I signed up for. And this deployment i- it's fun, but like super traumatizing at the same time, you know?

• 2:05:54Speaker 03

  I, I get to finally do the things I signed up for. Get, uh, we deployed with every weapon system, 60s, uh, 81s and 120s. Uh, we didn't use the 81s at all. We mostly used the 120s. And the 60s, the, the team guys would take those and use them on like, uh, super secret squirrel missions where they just leave us, leave us at the base and go disappear for a little bit.

• 2:06:18Speaker 03

  But tha- that deployment was nice. Uh, we get to undisclosed location, one of the bases. Uh, it, it is super nice there. Like, I was not expecting to have running water. I was not expecting to have a, a team room. There's, there's, uh, alcohol and there's everything you could ever ask for. There's a private chef. And it's like, what is this? This is not deployment.

• 2:06:42Speaker 03

  And, and we're there for a couple of days just getting fitted, you know, getting the local uniforms, all that stuff, like, uh, just, just getting, uh, situated with like the, the layout of the battlefield and what, what our role is there. And, uh, you know, we test fire all their weapons. We outfit our, our vehicles, up armored, uh, Range Rovers that are way too heavy, so they blew tires all the time. But, uh, first, first convoy, we, we drive for a really long time and we're rocking a convoy of like way too many vehicles. And I was like, this is scary. Like, uh,

• 2:07:21Speaker 03

  we're in the up armored, uh, the Range Rovers, I think they are. I, I don't know what it, but.

• 2:07:28Jack Murphy?

  Uh, they may have been. Yeah, they may have been.

• 2:07:32Speaker 03

  Uh, yeah, but we're in those and the first time we go out, we, we blow a tire and we have run flats. And we do a ta- tactical tire change. It was like, well, we're just sitting ducks out here, aren't we? You know, any one of these tractor trailers could be a V-bid and we all just die. And I was like, well, I guess if that happens, you know, it's out of my control. But we drive somewhere for like two hours and that's when the, the first time we actually get to drop rounds on people. Well, what we, what we did is, you know, we, we'd sit back and we'd give the village a two-day notice of we're gonna bomb the shit out of this place. Get out. If you're not ISIS, we're, we're gonna bomb it. And they had refugee camps set up. So like, they had somewhere to go where there was food and water and shelter.

• 2:08:16Speaker 03

  And after the two days, that's when we start dropping mortar rounds and we were dropping over a hundred a day, you know, we, we had a, a truck outfitted for just carrying our mortar rounds and just, and the person that drove it.

• 2:08:28Jack Murphy?

  Those 120s are like that, right?

• 2:08:31Speaker 03

  Yeah, they're massive. They're, I don't remember weights because it's so long ago. I got out in 2018, but, but they are heavy. But, uh, we were dropping close to a hundred rounds a day and it didn't feel real, you know, it was no different to me than just training. Cause I wasn't watching where the rounds were going and we had ISR, but it just, it just felt like a video game for so long. And it, it, we kept doing it, you know, we'd go out for, I want to say it was five days out, two days back, some, something along those lines. A- and it wasn't until like halfway through the deployment where it, it finally got real to me at some point.

• 2:09:09Speaker 03

  After doing it for so long, going through the villages, seeing, seeing all the destruction and stuff, because we, we bombed the village, sent a partner force in, and then we'd go in behind them. Once, once they deemed it was safe and obviously, you know, there's still uh, random IDs and all that stuff, still, you know, people hiding in tunnels shooting at us. But we, we were very blessed in the sense where we never saw like direct contact other than like V-bids. And it, it was at such a distance that it didn't seem like.

• 2:09:39Jack Murphy?

  That, that was, that was, that was intentional that like you guys were providing a lot of indirect fire because they don't want American soldiers like in, in direct combat.

• 2:09:48Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah. Uh, like the notable thing for me was, uh, was we were dropping rounds in this, and then after we went into the village, there's the, the back spray of an RPG and like you just see like the, the silhouette of a body. So what, in my mind, you know, what I pictured is a mortar round landed, this guy got scared, pulled, uh, aimed RPG down and pulled the trigger. And then that's why he blew himself up right there. And it was like, oh shit. I, I'm, I actually have some part in this. And, and it was in the same village that some, some, some five-year-old kid just screaming at the top of his lungs at me. And at the time, my, my little brother was the same age and I just see my little brother and this kid, you know, brown little kid, angry at the world.

• 2:10:34Speaker 03

  And I, I was always with the interpreter just because I was the only brown dude and I guess he gravitated towards me. But we were bullshit a lot and the kid's screaming at me and I tried to ask the dude, what's he saying? But, you know, the, it's so loud. But like driving and all that, he didn't really hear me. So I wait till we get back to the base and I, I, I finally talked to him. I was like, you remember that little shit at the corner? What, what was he screaming at me? And he was like, ah, just your generic propaganda ISIS bullshit, you know, he's gonna kill your family. Uh, I was like, what do you mean? He's gonna kill my family. What did I do to him? And he's like, bro, you, you killed his dad last night when you were dropping mortar rounds. I was like, me? I was like, what do you mean?

• 2:11:16Speaker 03

  He's like, yeah, no, you, that, that's, that's what he was saying at least. I was like, oh, this is real.

• 2:11:23Speaker 03

  A- and at that time, we had ISR where I got to watch as my rounds that I dropped, uh, were lighting up a, a, a compound. And there was, uh, three or four people running out and as they were running out, the mortar rounds were striking right where they were and they just vanished. You know, there was nothing left. There was, and it was like, oh, th- this is real, you know, this is, this is not a game. And, and from there, I, I kind of lost, I kind of lost the purpose, you know, I kind of lost the reasoning as to why, why are we doing it? I started uh, being more analytical about it, you know? Given the same situation from their point of view, I, I'd probably be doing the same thing, you know? But at the end of the day, I still had a job to do, so I kept doing my job and

• 2:12:08Speaker 03

  that, that, that slowly, that's, that's where I saw the shift, you know, that, that deployment is where it's like, I, I started, I started to realize a, a lot of what we were doing. Yes, we're helping, but we're also hurting a lot of people.

• 2:12:19Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, it's sad in the sense that, I mean, it's one thing if someone is ideologically aligned with ISIS, like, at least I'm not gonna lose any sleep over that. But there were people, as you know, ISIS would come into the village, they'd saw the old man's head off and be like, hey, if you don't join up with us, this is what's gonna happen to you. And so you have a lot of like 15-year-old kids press ganged into joining ISIS. And, and that's sad. Like, that, that does bother me.

• 2:12:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, and I was just very nosey in in the sense where I just gravitated to the the Kurds and I I would take the interpreter with me and I I'd be like, can you translate? I just want to ask some questions and I would just ask very probing questions of like, why why did you join this side and like, why why have you been fighting so long? And and the Kurds did this thing where they'd fight to a line and then they wouldn't want to fight past that, you know, that that was their boundary, that that's that's their land, they don't want to, they don't want to push into enemy enemy territory. And I was like, why? Well, why why do they always stop here is like, we go a little bit further, that's that's that's their stronghold, you know? Uh but they they would explain it and they're like, bro, we've been at war our whole lives, we don't know anything else, you know, we've we were born into this, we've been fighting since forever.

• 2:13:33Speaker 03

  We we don't know another another option is like, that's sad, you know, you. You were born into war, your sons are gonna be born into war, and this is just a never ending cycle.

• 2:13:45Speaker 03

  But but I had a couple, like a couple of close calls as well, we were there, you know, um. We had a vivid that got really close, um, and. I was facing the opposite way that from where I was coming pulling security and me being the nosey self, I was like, I told my buddy who was um um manning a machine gun, I was like, I'm gonna go look. And I I peeked my head over the berm and at this point, you know, everyone's lighting it up, you got a a fifty cow on it, you got a bunch of people shooting at it with uh small arms and. Someone grabs a javelin and this is the first time I seen a javelin do what it's supposed to do. And I'm just being nosey, I'm just peeking over, just just trying to be, just not trying to be involved, but trying to see what's happening.

• 2:14:28Speaker 03

  And I see this javelin absolutely wrecked this car, just absolutely turned into scrap metal. And we drive past it, so like I actually got to see the aftermath of it and there was nothing left, it was just like, there's a tire. There was no engine, I was like, that car was moving, there has to be an engine somewhere, it was gone. And it it was just so crazy that like, the level of explosion that created. Just from ju- just from one one javelin. Uh it was at like at that same base where like, because we'd set up like essentially patrol bases as we went, you know, set up a triangle and we defend that while we're shooting mortar rounds. And it it was at that same place that uh me and my buddy were were just sitting there bullshitting because that's what you do when there's nothing going on.

• 2:15:11Speaker 03

  And we we hear a a round whiz right past me, it's like, I I the round's here, my buddy's like, right here, like barely like. The round is two feet away, my buddy's another two feet away. And we're both, we're both stunned, we don't know what just happened, I like, uh uh my reaction time was faster where I knew that we got shot at. So I got down and got to the ground and my buddy was frozen, he he just stood there. Uh I threw my kit on and uh I I told the team leader, I was like, I think we just got shot at and. At this point, my buddy's catching up, you know, he's like, yeah. We got shot at by someone, uh and then the the team leader verifies, he he's talking to the partner forces.

• 2:15:53Speaker 03

  And come to find out, one of the partner forces was shooting at a vehicle. And as the vehicle drove in between where we were, he just kept shooting, so he was shooting at us. Oh shit. It it was the partner forces shooting at us. And I I was just lucky, you know, I just, you know, two steps to the right and tha- tha- that's my face, I wasn't wearing a helmet, I wasn't wearing any protective gear. But but tha- that incident is what like uh just, I just accepted death, you know, I I was just like, if it's gonna happen, it's gonna happen, I have no control over it, you know? Uh, we got mortared a couple of times where it was super close, that's how I got my uh combat infantry badge on paper. Um.

• 2:16:32Speaker 03

  This was down the road on, I want to say like, three quarters of the way through the deployment, we're sitting at a a FOB, you know? And at this point, it's routine, there's nothing new, um, we're finding targets on ISR, we're we're leveling them out with mortars and. I- i- it's just casual, it's not even, it's not even a stressful job anymore, it's like, here's your target, I don't, I'm sure you've seen the videos that I post, like, it it's not like, I'm having a good time while I'm there. Um but while while we're at this uh place, uh we we get the first incoming round and. At this point, I've never, I've never heard, I've never been on the opposite end of mortars or artillery, so I didn't know what it sounded like.

• 2:17:13Speaker 03

  And to me, it just sounded like an air asset flying overhead way too low, like the whistling sound. And i- it impacts, it it's super far away, it's like five hundred meters away and it's like, okay, that was close, where's that coming from? So we just started lobbing rounds in in where we thought it was, like uh we were we were late on a position already. So we just started dropping rounds and w- we're not being accurate, we're just dropping rounds wherever they go, because you know, it's like, we don't, we don't know for sure if that's it, so we're just gonna. We're gonna send some probing rounds and hopefully we scare them enough to make them stop. But they they shoot another round and and this one's, this one's scary, it's close, uh the whistling sound was way shorter. And i- it impacted probably like fifty meters away.

• 2:17:57Speaker 03

  And for whatever reason, we were all just super lucky that wherever someone was standing, there was no shrapnel. I- i- it was, it just hit the burn perfectly and uh you saw the sparks, you saw the dust kicked up, kick up in the air, and that's when we decided this place. So we're we're panicking, you know, our base plate is dug in, it is, you're not, you you ju- you just don't pick it up, it's a hundred and like thirty pounds. And it's buried in Syrian dirt, which is like concrete. So we had a a grabber call that lifted up, but i- it's like a two man job and. Everyone's panicking, you know, we we have stuff everywhere, you know, we have our sleeping systems laid out, like we're over here camping, we're not at war, we're over here having a good time.

• 2:18:42Speaker 03

  So we started displacing and we're we're just grabbing everything as fast as possible. And at at one point. I look around and I'm down a man, like it's me, uh just for reference, it's me and two other Rangers and our platoon sergeant. And me and the other two Rangers are, we're we're struggling, you know, we're trying to force this base plate out, we're digging it out. I look up and I'm trying to find our platoon sergeant, I was like, why isn't he helping us? And uh co- come to find out, he he was, he was stunned, like he he he froze, he stayed in the passenger's seat and couldn't move. And I went up to him, you know, I hit him on the helmet, I was like, can you fucking help us, please?

• 2:19:23Speaker 03

  And he he just couldn't hear me, like he was just, he he kept his eyes forward and like, he just couldn't move and luckily, they didn't. We displaced fast enough before another round landed and and we left that area, but. That's when I started to like lose respect for the platoon sergeant, who was an import, he wasn't like a born and raised regiment guy. A- and that disdain grew, uh. We we took um artillery a couple of other places, like in villages, i- it just hit buildings around us, it wasn't that serious, um.

• 2:19:58Speaker 03

  I was nosy and like uh when they were trying to like uh sniper targets, I was on by, I was just being like uh, like I had no, I had no business watching it, but I I was trying just to see, just because, you know. There's nothing else to do when you're deployed, but stuff like that. And then uh another memorable incident for tha- that platoon sergeant was. We're doing shifts on um the infrared, I forget what it's called, it's just a camera that's in infrared, you know, I'm pulling security on a hundred eighty degrees. Of an area and we just cycled off of it because we we were trained on it and we do either one or two hour shifts.

• 2:20:36Speaker 03

  And I fell asleep one night, so I accidentally did the shift of another person and like. So it was me, it was a a team guy and then it was the platoon sergeant, so I accidentally did the team guy's uh shift. And. Oh no, I did the platoon sergeant shift and it was the team guys, um, team guy was next, but. In my mind, it was like, well, I'll just go wake up the platoon sergeant because he's next on the list. And I I go to his ten, I was like, hey, bro, I accidentally uh accidentally uh stayed up too long. Like I didn't want to admit that I fell asleep, so I just, I just lied to him, I was like, I stayed up too long, uh it's your turn to pull shift, and he looks at his watch and he's like. You did my shift, uh can you just go wake up the next guy?

• 2:21:22Speaker 03

  I was like, no, I want to go to bed, man, I'm tired. And he's like, oh, no, he should be over here, uh he should be inside this building on like uh three doors down, whatever. So I was like, sure, whatever, I'll go wake him up instead. So I go over there and there's no one in there, so I go back to the platoon sergeant, I was like, I can't find him, you want to go look for him and ask him or can you just pull the shift, I want to go back to bed? He's like, oh, no, actually, he's in this room. And so I go looking for him and I don't, I can't find him, I don't know who he's talking about, I don't know where he's sleeping, like there's a bunch of random dudes sleeping everywhere, so it's like hard to tell. How hard to pinpoint the dude you're looking for? And so I just go do another shift, like I do six hours straight and at this point, I'm exhausted, I haven't slept. And the sun's coming up and that was the last shift of the night.

• 2:22:07Speaker 03

  And I I just lost more respect because, you know, it, instead of just getting up and doing his shift and, you know, giving the other guy a break. Or even doing what he wanted, getting up and going and waking up the dude, because we knew where the next dude slept, because you had to point out, you. You you talked to the person that you were waking up and they're like, all right, I'll be right here. So so you knew where he was, I didn't know, I was exhausted, I was too tired to like comprehend and there was just too many people sleeping next to each other where I'd look at under nods and I was like, I don't know if that's him. Uh but I ended up just doing like uh uh six hours and I was just exhausted. Uh we did a couple of fire missions.

• 2:22:46Speaker 03

  A- and I just ended up passing out on the chair and they're like, what's wrong? I was like, I'm tired, I haven't slept. And they're like, oh, yeah, that's normal, that that along with the overpressure, you know, you're just gonna lose gaps in your memory. I was like, okay, like I didn't think anything away, I just, I I was just so mad about the the principle behind it, you know, the the integrity part of it. So I told the team, the the guy in charge of the team, the Delta uh guy and. I I explained to him what happened, he's like, that's not right, uh I'm I'm gonna talk to him. So he talks to him and he gets the same story and he talks to me again, he's like.

• 2:23:25Speaker 03

  So uh we got the dile- dilemma, you know, we could send them back, the only problem, it's gonna look really bad for us, because we're sending back an import. Uh uh an import platoon sergeant based on a a team leader's word. And.

• 2:23:42Speaker 03

  And it's just not gonna look good for anyone. He's like, I recommend like just, just ignoring him. Um, we'll give you guys the fire missions and he could just be like, uh, safety checks. We'll, we'll just re, rework it that way. And then from there on out, it was just me and my, my two friends doing most of the work and he was just supervising. Give him a title so he'd feel important. But, but after that, you know, it was, it was a lot easier. We, we started doing a lot more reckless things. Because we were in control and we shouldn't have been. Uh, we, we allegedly, allegedly reached past the max distance on the one twenties. Just because we were barely outside of range. Uh, max range is like seventy two hundred meters on the one twenties.

• 2:24:25Speaker 03

  Well, the tube goes a little further down. Let's see if, uh, we can force it down. So I, I told my, uh, my buddy and he's like, okay, yeah, we could try that. So, so we drop it in there normally and it's moving so slow. You can hear it going down the tube.

• 2:24:44Speaker 03

  It hits the bottom, you hear the dink and like, it has like a three second delay before it goes off. Like I thought we just misfired, but it goes off. And, uh, we wait for the splash and the team guy's like, that was really close. Can you send it a little further? I was like, we can try. I was like, hey, bro, this time throw it down the tube and then move your hands real quick. So he, we crank it down another, uh, two turns and he throws it down the tube and, uh, he's like, yeah, that, that looked good. That hit the target. Meanwhile, me, me and my buddy, I was like, that was the dumbest thing we could have ever done. Why'd we do that? I was like, I don't know. It sounded like a good idea in my head.

• 2:25:23Speaker 03

  But for whatever reason, it worked out. We just got lucky in, in that situation. Cause like, we were running a gun. We were running a one twenty and the other two guys were running their own one twenty gun. So we were really separated. So like, if we had a misfire, they'd have to stop what they're doing. They'd have to come and we'd have to, it'd be a whole thing.

• 2:25:37Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, yeah. That would suck.

• 2:25:41Speaker 03

  Yeah, but we got lucky.

• 2:25:43Jack Murphy?

  And then you redeployed back to the United States and the last one was to Iraq, right?

• 2:25:50Speaker 03

  Yeah. So I redeployed to, or I got back to the States and this is when I met my wife and

• 2:25:58Speaker 03

  that's when the shift started, you know, this whole time I thought I wanted to go SF. I wanted to go Delta. And at the time I was a corporal, I believe. And at that's, or I, I was a fresh sergeant or one of the two. And I reached out, cause, uh, with that deployment, they're like, oh, you should try out, you know, for, for the team. I was like, okay, sure. Uh, I got nothing to lose. It sounds like a good time, you know, you guys are nice to me. You guys go by first names. You, I'm not getting disrespected. I'm not getting screened at. You guys just tell me what to do and if I do it right.

• 2:26:30Speaker 03

  It's a, it's a good job. And if I do it wrong, it's like, this is what you could have done better. Instead of like, you know, you're always wrong. So it's like that. I, I like that environment, uh, environment a whole lot better. So like, yeah, just, uh, just, just, uh, try out, you know? You can name drop us if you want, but it's like, in my mind, it's like, nah, I want to do it myself, you know? I, I don't, I don't, I don't need a handout from anyone. So I talked to the recruiter and he's like, well, you need to meet this criteria. You need to have one NCO, NCO ER. And I was like, I was like, yeah, but I, I, I deployed with them, you know, it's like, they, they'll voucher me. He's like, yeah, that's not how this works, you know? You, you have to meet the, the textbook standard of having one year as a sergeant. I was like, well, it's either, it's either this or I'm getting out.

• 2:27:14Speaker 03

  You know, I'm not re-enlisting for a maybe or for a tryout, you know? And they're like, well, I, you know, there, there's nothing we can do. There's nothing you could talk about. So I forgot about it, you know? I, I didn't, I didn't really care, you know? I still had time. I still had another deployment. I still, I was still scheduled for a training cycle and deployment. So at this time, you know, a lot more wars ramping up. We got the Sierra deployments and, uh, the Iraq deployment is actually a new deployment for us at the time where only two, one other Ranger, um, weapon squad and mortar team leader had, had deployed there. And it was attached to Delta. Uh, while we were there, it was just, uh, training the partner forces again and

• 2:27:57Speaker 03

  I thought it was gonna be a lot like Afghanistan. When we get there, we do our show of force, you know? Let, let's show them that we actually know what we're doing. Cause I'm just a kid, bro. I'm twenty two years old. You know, I don't know much of anything. I know how to ego people and that's about it. But, uh, luckily we had a weapon squad leader who was a little more seasoned, you know, a couple more deployments. He was, uh, E six, about to be E seven. And he's like, yeah, this is what we're gonna do. We're, I was a fresh sergeant, but just for reference, he's like, yeah, we're, we're gonna get there and we're, we're gonna show them how, how efficient we are with our weapon squads and our mortars. That way they respect us. I was like, okay, sounds good, man. Uh, how, how are we getting there? Are we driving or are we flying in?

• 2:28:39Speaker 03

  He's like, we're, we're walking. I was like, why? It's like, to, to show that we can do it. I was like, okay, sounds, I guess, I don't know. He's like, I was like, how far are we walking? It's like, it's like twelve K. I was like, with a combat load? He's like, yeah. I was like, oh. That, this doesn't sound as fun anymore, you know? Cause we, we were rocking the conventional, uh, mortar.

• 2:29:02Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:29:03Speaker 03

  You know, bipod, extra weight. And me, I, I always, uh, egged to the point where I needed more rounds than the combat load. So like normally they're like, take twelve rounds. I was like, we're taking like twenty, fuck it. We're gonna show these guys how strong we are. And we do it, we get there, we, we lay on a target, we light it up. We, it's very-

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• 2:31:24Speaker 03

  Efficient. And at, at this point, you know, the, the Kurdish, uh, team leader, he, he, he's impressed, you know, he's, he's never seen that level of efficiency, that level of speed and just the level of weight that we were carrying. He, he was actually astonished. He's like, how heavy is that? And I had my private do the math on the rounds and stuff, the weight of the bipod and all that. And I gave it to him. He's like, you guys walked with that the whole time? I was like, you watched us, you were there. And he just starts laughing. He's like, no, no, I respect it. He's like, I think we'll, we'll get along just fine. And, you know, we do training missions. And I didn't know that this was gonna be like, we actually got to do other things other than just training.

• 2:32:04Speaker 03

  But like, in my mind, I thought I was going back to Afghanistan and it was just gonna be a chill, chill with the boys thing. But, uh, we did get to go out into the city, you know, just pick up some high value targets and-

• 2:32:17Jack Murphy?

  This was in, uh, like Soleimaniya and Kirkuk?

• 2:32:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:32:22Jack Murphy?

  Yeah.

• 2:32:22Speaker 03

  I honestly don't remember what, what cities we were going into. I just remember that I wasn't having as much fun as I wanted to because I was just pulling security. And every now and then they'd let me into a building and it's like, I want to do the building part. I don't want to sit, you know, covering X, Y, and Z sectors of fire. You know, uh, but it, it is what it is, you know, bottom of the totem pole, you got all these top tier guys and Rangers are just the lowest because we have the privates. So we were mostly just pulling security for them and it, it wasn't too crazy. Um, I had this one incident where this vehicle is just driving at us way too fast. So we're, we're laying prone and, um, we have the weapon squad laid in on it and my buddy's on it, or my privates on it with his laser and

• 2:33:06Speaker 03

  I just stand up and, uh, shine my white light at him and he gets way too close. We let him way too close. We should have probably lit him up, but I, I, in my mind, I just pictured like an Uber driver that was lost and saw like a strobing light and got confused. So I, I didn't shoot and he finally realized that there was a bunch of dudes with guns pointing at him and he, he backed up slowly and, and left. But that, that was like the only close call that we really had other than like, you know, generic, like, uh, vehicles, like, uh, one thing that I was really sad about was- Oh, it wasn't even this deployment, the the previous deployment, I was the minigun gunner. And I did so much training for that and I never got to use it.

• 2:33:48Speaker 03

  I got to test fire it one time and I I'm still salty about that. I wanted to light up a car or something, but on this deployment, I was a fifty cal gunner. And it it was just a lot of the same, you know, scanning, analyzing. It becomes routine at some point, it it's it's no longer like a stressful situation, it just becomes what it is. But we did get in trouble. While we were there. And it's because, you know, we're a bunch of alcoholics with egos. Um, a- and me, I I don't I don't care like what your rank is, I don't care what you've done, if if you talk to me respectfully, I'm I'm gonna return that same energy. And one night, we're we're playing poker and one of the.

• 2:34:33Speaker 03

  One of the team guys is is just way too drunk and talking shit. And we're just going back and forth, trying to see who who's done more and this and we're just like, uh, dropping kill count and. Et cetera, and he's like, oh, bullshit, you didn't do any of that. And, uh, this is where like I get one positive influence is, uh, one of the team guys was like, bro, you should just go to bed, you're not gonna win this argument. I was like, you know what, you're right. I was like, I was like, thank you for having me, uh, I'll see you guys tomorrow, so so I leave. And the way this place was set up was it was. Americans, French, a bunch of different nations were all compound together.

• 2:35:13Speaker 03

  And, uh, I I believe it was the French or Canadians, they they ended up throwing a party just just to like hang out and talk and we got in trouble here. And it it was mostly because of our privates got a little too drunk.

• 2:35:28Speaker 03

  And me, uh, I'd get drunk, but I I I still wanna have some level of control, you know, I'd still wanna be able to react to something if if something happened, you know, I'm not. I'm not blacking out i- in this situation. So I I'm sitting there drinking way too much like everyone else. And and I'm watching my private just because, you know, he's my responsibility. And he's too drunk, he's bumping into people, knocking drinks out of people's hands, not like on purpose, just like bumping into them. So. I I'd let it, I let it go on for a little bit and then finally I I decide, you know, that's enough, you know, you you bumped into, you you dropped some guy's drink, uh. You know, he was upset about it, so I I'm just gonna tell you to go home.

• 2:36:10Speaker 03

  So I go up to him, I was like, hey, hey, bud, uh, you should you should go the fuck home right now. And he's like, he argued to me, he's like, why? I was like, because I fucking said so. And he continues to argue with me and he's like, well, I'm off duty, you know, I I'm not working right now. I was like.

• 2:36:30Speaker 03

  I was like, bitch, you're always working, you're in the military, I'm gonna make your life hell if you don't go home. And at this point, I'm screaming at him, I'm I'm full rage mode, cause like. You I I'm the I'm the sergeant, you're a fucking private without a tab, so like, obviously, there there's some level of respect there. And one of the team guys over over hears us arguing is like. Yeah, this is this is getting too escalated, everyone should just go home. And like, every everyone does, you know, all everyone goes back to their respective compounds and. I knew we were in trouble, I knew that that wasn't gonna go over well. So I started drinking water, I started chugging like canteens of water, knowing what's coming in the morning.

• 2:37:13Speaker 03

  And, uh, I wake up early in the morning, I go to the gym. Why? I don't know, because that was my routine. And in in the gym, I was like, fuck, I need to go check in to see what they have, they want us to do, and I go check in with the uh, weapon squad leader. And I tell him what happened, I tell I tell him the truth, cause I have nothing to hide. And he's like. You know, you know what we're gonna have to do, right? I was like, I know what you wanna do. I was like, you're gonna haze this until someone throws up, I don't wanna do it. He's like, he's like, you know, we're gonna do it, I was like, yeah, I know we're gonna do it, I don't want to. So when, uh. Whatever, six or we waited until everyone else was awake, so they can see us suffer, all the all the other team guys and all the other compounds.

• 2:37:59Speaker 03

  But sunlight comes up and we're out there formation with our canteens like a bunch of privates. And we're like, we're gonna walk this airfield until someone throws up. So we walk it, we we do a lap and at this point, we're a fucking spectacle, everyone's out there with binos just watching us. And the airfield or the compound to walk all around it was like six miles or something crazy. So we do our first lap and and I'm tired, I don't wanna keep doing this anymore. It's it's me and the weapon squad guy, we're walking in the front and all the privates are behind us, I was like. How long are we going, Brad? I'm fucking exhausted, I'm gonna throw up soon. He's like, no, someone else is gonna throw up before you, just hold it. Uh, we're we're just going and finally, like.

• 2:38:43Speaker 03

  Two and a half laps in, someone finally throws up. I was like, can we go home, please?

• 2:38:51Speaker 03

  And not like just a one on one conversation, and he's like, yeah, we're done after that, I I'm tired too, man. He's like, but don't show it, act tough when we get back to the privates, so we get back to the privates, we're like, all right. Did you guys learn your fucking lesson? All right, let's go back, uh, go get ready for the day. And like, we had to run back and like get all our equipment and get ready for the training cycle. But it was just like, it was it was a learning lesson, you know, it's like, you can only show so much. Like, e- even like, uh. Like, to me, he he was he was super, I I like had so much respect for him, just because he had actual deployments where he was. Uh, not in the weapons squad, he was on the line team and he actually got to kick in doors.

• 2:39:33Speaker 03

  Uh, uh, it was just a a respecting for me that like, whatever he said, you know. I respected him enough to where I was gonna do it, no matter if I agreed or didn't agree with it. But but we do it and then like the the team guys are like, you guys are fucking nuts, you guys are fucking insane. Uh, they're like, we we had some, we had some choice words for you, but we let it go after watching you guys struggle. I was like, sweet, we we accomplished exactly what we wanted to, you know, and and it blew over after that, you know, they're like, all right, they punish themselves, we don't have to punish them.

• 2:40:05Jack Murphy?

  I can imagine on these sorts of like train, advise, assist type deployments that. Like Ranger privates, you kinda gotta keep them busy, like give them something to do, you know, or bad things happen.

• 2:40:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, yes and no, I I think with a little direction and like a little bit of freedom, you know. Like. This is where I started letting go of control a little bit where. I wanted him to max a PT test and to me, it was just so easy to max a PT test, you know, you can't max a PT test, what's wrong? You can't do eighty pushups? Do pushups until you could do eighty pushups, it's it's not a complex structure. You can't run fast? Well, run more. And he he was right on the line, he was like a ninety five per percent. There and it was just like, just do the other five percent, you know, you gotta work towards it, it's not just gonna happen by itself. But, uh, you know, this is where I gave him freedom, it's like, you're gonna do whatever you want, and if you can pass the PT test at the end of the month, I'm gonna keep leaving you alone.

• 2:41:05Speaker 03

  And that's where I learned like another form of leadership, you know, I don't have to be the one that that hazes him into excellence. Like, I don't have to be like leading by example in a sense every time, you know, I could just. Uh, let go of some of the control and expect him to do it, and he did, you know, he he was maxing PT test by the end of the the deployment.

• 2:41:26Speaker 03

  But, you know, there's there's so, it's so simple, like, you you just tell them what you want to accomplish, and a lot of times, they'll they'll do it real quick, you know, you don't. You don't have to micromanage them and I did that for way too long, you know, it's like. I don't want your negative. Outcome to be a reflection of me, you know, therefore I have to be involved in it. And it was just bad logic, you know.

• 2:41:51Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, no, there's definitely something to that, um, it depends on the soldier, right? How much supervision they need?

• 2:41:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, a hundred percent, uh, and he was just more of an, uh, he was more of an adult, you know, where you can tell him to do something and he'd do it and. I I just had too many bad experiences, my first private was. Not the brightest, he he had a good heart, but he just, he he had it in the wrong places, you know. You can tell him to remember this or he had no street smarts, it's what it came down to, you know, he was very book smart. But as soon as, you know, something stressful happened, he he like shut down and. Like mess up whatever, or he he'd overshoot, he'd put in the wrong numbers, just very basic, like, uh.

• 2:42:36Speaker 03

  Put in stressful situation, he couldn't handle it, so that's where I got a lot of my like, oh, I have to be, I have to be double checking everything, I have to be micromanaging. And it was just because that was that was my first experience with a private.

• 2:42:49Jack Murphy?

  Um, so talk to us a little bit about coming home and transitioning out of the military.

• 2:42:57Speaker 03

  It wasn't great. Uh, alcohol was was keeping me alive for way too long, um. It it started after the Afghanistan deployment, actually, you know, um, we get back and. I'm feeling these new emotions I've never felt before. You know, anxiety, depression, and I didn't know what it was, I just knew I didn't like it. So I go to one of my team leaders. And.

• 2:43:25Speaker 03

  Uh, I I I start talking to him and I didn't drink at this point and he's like, well, you know, I I've dealt with a lot of things and it it was someone I respected, you know, someone had a couple deployments and he's like. He he was, he was wasted at this point, he'd been drinking for way too long and he's like, he hands me a beer, he's like, your problems will go away at the bottom of this beer.

• 2:43:46Speaker 03

  So I chug it, I was like, well, this is, this is the cure, but he wouldn't lie to me. So I chug it real quick and I still feel like shit, it didn't solve anything. And I tell him, I was like, hey, man, uh, I don't think that fixed it, he's like, oh, just drink another one, and if that doesn't fix it, just keep going until it does. So we just get, uh, wasted and that's where like the alcoholism really started, you know, it's it started with. You drink way too much when you were around certain people, but you you surround yourself with the right people and you have moderation. And the thing that saved me was probably my wife, you know, when I was around her, you know, I wasn't drinking to get blacked out drunk, I was drinking for a good time. And I met her after the Sierra deployment.

• 2:44:29Speaker 03

  And it was rough being separated on the Iraq deployment, like. I I'd call her every night and we keep keep in touch, we were.

• 2:44:41Speaker 03

  We were married right before that deployment and

• 2:44:47Speaker 03

  tha- that's what carried me over, you know, it's it's knowing I had something to go back to, you know, for for the longest time, I I just wanted to die. That that was one of the biggest reasons I joined the military. It was easier to die honor- honorably, you know, in my mind, that was the easiest way to go, you know. I I die overseas and my family gets a paycheck and I get my problems solved. And it was that mentality that really did me in, you know, after the the military alcoholism and that mentality where

• 2:45:16Speaker 03

  I was drinking and then I was like, well, what do I do now? How how else can I I go honorably? Well, I'm gonna be a cop and then I'm gonna join the SWAT team. And that's gonna solve my problems. Not knowing that I had to deal with the underlying issue that I fa- figured out later in life, but uh, after the military, my son is born the same month I get out, so to be completely honest with you, I lied a lot, so I got out the military, I smoked weed. Uh, I thought that would solve my problems, you know, I thought that would cure the anxiety, uh, that would help me sleep. And to be in a police department, you can't smoke weed within two years.

• 2:45:58Speaker 03

  So I was gonna lie in the polygraph, I had to, there was no way I could pass the polygraph if I was completely honest. So I I applied to every agency within like fifty miles where uh, my wife's hometown was, uh, Baltimore, York area and I just kept applying for a year and it was just a slow process of, you know, you gotta go try out, you gotta go do this and this whole time, I'm trying to raise my son the best, the best I can, you know. I I'm a stay-at-home dad, my wife is going through postpartum. So she she decided to go back to work and I was like, yeah, I'm not, I'm not working, so I'll watch my son, you know, I I'll enjoy that part of it. And I truly did, you know, I bonded with him, we

• 2:46:44Speaker 03

  I'd have him on my chest while I'm playing video games and he's just napping, it's like, it was, it was a good time, you know, it gave me purpose again. And then after I got out uh, March twenty eighteen and I was hired as a cop on December of that same year and then my wife uh, decided to stop working so she could take care of the kid. And we swapped roles and same thing, man, my mouth got me in trouble a lot. I I didn't stop being myself and that transition from being told, you know, you're God's gift to earth, you cannot die, you are unstoppable to bro, you're you're just a cop, you're you're you're human, you you should be nice to people, you can't talk to people this way.

• 2:47:27Speaker 03

  Uh, that transition was really hard for me. Uh, in the police academy, you know, I was egoing everyone, every instructor I ran into, it was like brother, you're fucking fat, you cannot talk to me this way, like, I will outrun you, like, and I wasn't saying it like that direct, but that that's what I was thinking in my head. You know, it's like, I will outperform you in any task that you decide. So I I'd just be speaking out, uh, making jokes, uh, talking shit, the the the norm, the the typical military banter and I was lucky that there was like a a marine guy there and another guy who was just very bro mentality, you know, like, he was all about it, it was like

• 2:48:08Speaker 03

  yeah, fuck these people, they're all dumb, you know, they don't know better, we're better than them, we're gonna, we're gonna run and if so let me give you the the first experience of of uh, getting hired by a police department. So I apply, I you do your test, you uh, it's like a equivalent of an ASVAB, pass that, uh, then you get scheduled for an interview. Uh, pass the interview, do a polygraph and I I was blessed in the sense where allegedly there was polygraphs overseas, so I practiced, so I knew what, how to beat them. And it just goes to show how bullshit they are, if I could smoke weed and then, so I smoked weed on

• 2:48:54Speaker 03

  in March and then December is when I was hired, so that was not two years. But I just told myself that it was, it was one time, you know, it doesn't count, and I just told myself enough times, myself that enough times to where I believed it. And I passed the polygraph, however, for whatever reason, I guess I was just honest with myself and there there was ways to work around the polygraph. But I passed that and then uh, you you go into this limbo phase for a little bit where you're you're hired on, but the police academy doesn't start, so you just go in and do admin BS. And this is where I started to grow the the disdain for cops even more, you know.

• 2:49:39Speaker 03

  The reason I joined a cop, the reason I wanted to be a cop was I wanted to see a change, you know, I wanted people to have way more positive interactions than they had negatives. So that was my mentality going into it, you know. I've had so many bad experience, I don't think I've ever had a good experience with a cop at that point. So it was like, if I could give you a warning, that's what I was gonna do. But I get there and that mentality doesn't seem to be the norm, you know, uh, there's a recruitment officer there and I'm just egoing her, cause I know I can outperform their PT test and she's like, no, there's no way, you know, you're gonna you should just be, you should just try to pass it, I was like, I'm gonna max it.

• 2:50:22Speaker 03

  What's the max? I don't need to know what the minimum standard is, I don't care about the minimum, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do the best. And like, uh, I guess that ego didn't, didn't vibe with her and she's like, oh, you you're just here fully yourself, blah, blah, blah. I was like, I'm I'm just gonna let my actions speak louder than my words. And she's like, okay, uh, let's go, let's go for a run, I was like, okay, you coming with me? And she's like, oh, no, I have a bad hip, I'll follow you in the patrol car. I I was like, if you're scared, just say that.

• 2:50:49Speaker 03

  And and and at this point, you know, she's like, all right, let's let's do a mock PT test, I was like, okay. I was like, what do you want me to do? And she's like, oh, we'll we'll just do pushups, see if you could do, it's it's something super low, it's like fifty pushups to max it. So I'm staring her down as I'm doing this pushups and I get to fifty and I should start counting, I go all the way up to like eighty, ninety, and I was like, you want me to keep going? And she's like, no, do the situps now.

• 2:51:14Speaker 03

  And I I'm just, I'm just staring her down the whole time and I understand how bad it sounds now, but at the time, you know, it's like, you challenged me, so I'm gonna prove my point now. But from that point, you know, tha- that disdain grew. So when I got to the academy, uh, i- it's it's so sad to me, you know, this, she was, she recruited me, she was the one that was looking out for me in a sense and I was cool with one of the instructors who was also a military vet, you know, I I, we we exchanged stories, we talked, you know, he he was all about the the ego part of it of, oh, let's everyone's tired, let's do some more pushups, this is easy, you know, uh, cause they make you do cadence and I was the one doing cadences just because I knew them.

• 2:51:55Speaker 03

  And he's like, I I love your mentality, you come in here and you're just happy, it's like, uh, yeah, I I got nothing to lose, this is, this is entertainment for me. And he's like, yeah, but like, uh, you you you're you're gonna get in trouble, I was like, what what are you talking about? He's like, yeah, you're you're captain, she she stopped by and she asked, uh, if if there's things that you're doing that are not in line with police values, I was like, I was like, what do you mean? He's like, she's fishing, bro, i- in simple terms, she she wants to write you up and she just wants to start to pay patrol. I was like, you're not allowed to tell me that, are you? He's like, I didn't tell you anything. I was like, okay, sweet, I was like, so what's coming? He's like, oh, well,

• 2:52:34Speaker 03

  she came in here looking for a rule infraction and a rule infraction is the the same as the California three strikes, you get three rule infractions and you're out. And uh, the verbiage behind it was although the totality or although there is no one thing you did that violates, that constitutes a rule infraction, the totality of the circumstances, everything combined is the reason you're getting rid.

• 2:53:00Jack Murphy?

  Sort of overall an asshole, it's kind of the the gist.

• 2:53:04Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm, yeah, yep, yep, uh, and I agreed with it, I wasn't, I wasn't gonna deny it. But the fact that they they stretched it, you know, and they they had this thing where you could take it to trial and then you know, you could argue with them and all that and I and I like to be a a thorn in people's side, so I was like, I'm gonna take it to trial, I'm gonna argue with you in court and and uh, I was talking to this instructor, I was like, what are the odds I win this? He's like, zero percent, bro, there's no, there's no world where you win this argument, I was like but like, it's bullshit, he's like, I agree, but you're not gonna win it. I was like, I was like, wha- what do you recommend I do? He's like, bro, just keep your head down, stop, stop talking.

• 2:53:45Speaker 03

  I was like, fine, I I'll I'll stop egoing and then, so that's what I did, you know, I just kept my head down and then he turned to ask me a question. I'll be like, I'd still have the ego, I'd be like, can I answer this? Am I allowed to talk now? And they're like, yeah, answer the question, and I I'll answer whatever question it was, you know, it wasn't hard for me.

• 2:54:04Speaker 03

  Once I graduated, I was supposed to be awarded every award, the uh, defensive tactics award, the shooting award, the PT award and the um, academic award. And I was talking to the instructor that the day before they gave the awards out and he's like, you're not gonna like this, I was like, what bullshit do you have for me now? Yeah, he's like, you know how I told you, you're getting every award, they changed the criteria, so you only get two of them. I was like, sick, and I actually have them right here.

• 2:54:38Speaker 03

  I don't know if the box was up.

• 2:54:44Speaker 03

  I don't know, it's in a box somewhere, but it I got the PT award and the the top Top Gun award. But it it wasn't even the fact that I only got those two awards, it was the fact that they were gonna give me all four of them, but then they decided to like change the criteria because you know they don't want one person getting all four awards and it's just like, what are we doing here, you know, you guys are you guys are changing stuff and they they did it with an obstacle course too, you know, they they they pushed the start line further back for me and my buddy that they knew were they knew we were gonna be, we were gonna beat the score. So they they made the start line further back and then they didn't tell us that we absolutely crushed this still

• 2:55:26Speaker 03

  cuz like uh it was like a obstacle course, you know, very generic, it was super easy obstacle course, like a kindergarten obstacle course compared to what we've been through. And I egored them, uh they're like, oh, you have to stay with your partner, I was like, I'm gonna race you, brother, and he's like you're gonna lose, I was like, there's no way I'm gonna lose, I'm gonna win this. And me and my buddy, we raced and I combat through dove through windows, like I was, I was pulling all the stops. And and we we absolutely crushed it, we beat it by like thirty seconds. And and they they wouldn't tell us what what our score was until like my buddy went back one day for like training and he's like you know, we're the highest ranked on that obstacle course, I was like, they told us we lost.

• 2:56:07Speaker 03

  Like, yeah, I I I saw the award, it's on, it's on a wall, you you guys, we did the best. I was like, well, why didn't they tell us, he's like, you know, I didn't tell us, they hate us, I was like, yeah, you're right. But I ended up graduating, like, I didn't even care about the awards, honestly, like, for me, it's just another like, I I already know like, I I could do it, it was just like, it's unnecessary, like, I don't, I'm not, I wasn't there for the award, you know?

• 2:56:32Jack Murphy?

  What did uh what did you think about the police department when you got there and and like how did that job kind of like combine with some of the transition or PTSD issues that you were dealing with on the on the back end?

• 2:56:48Speaker 03

  I I think it gave it like a uh easier off ramp, if that makes sense, you know, like, uh, you go from trauma, highest level of trauma, and then here's different level of trauma, but everyone like, you felt comfortable in the sense where everyone was was experiencing the same levels of trauma, no one was dealing it, everyone's uh coping with alcohol, very few people are actually talking about their emotions. And you could do that for a while, you could do, it works until it doesn't. But getting there, you know, you quickly realizes that the reason that that police department specifically is the way it is, is because that's just how they're trained, you know?

• 2:57:31Speaker 03

  They don't want you to be proactive, it it's actually the opposite, you get in trouble, you get talking to and I just didn't care, you know? My my goal was to do the forty-four agencies traffic tickets by myself. And I accomplished that close to every time, every month. That that was my goal every time, was like, I'm gonna go stop as many people as I can and I'm just gonna give them warnings. And I I'd get pulled into the office, they're like, what are you doing? I was like, giving warnings, why? And they're like, you should uh write citations, I was like, what for? They're like, well, it looks bad that you're just giving warnings, you know, your ratio is off. I was like, well, in my mind, if I'm gonna be speeding everywhere I go and I stop someone for speeding, why would I write them a ticket? It doesn't make sense.

• 2:58:16Speaker 03

  They're like, yeah, but like, we need to write more tickets, that way it evens out and stuff. I was like, sure, uh, send it to me in an email and then I'll do it, cuz they didn't want the paper trail part of it, they they wanted the talking to you and then you just do it.

• 2:58:29Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, yeah, because there are, there are no quotas.

• 2:58:33Speaker 03

  Illegal since the eighties.

• 2:58:34Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:58:35Speaker 03

  Believe it or not, I looked into it. But uh uh every argument I went into, I I I'd get the factual evidence first, you know, I wasn't going into an argument that I knew I couldn't win, and if I was, I was just going in there to piss people off for fun. But they they slowly started to force me out by like uh writing me up for bullshit. So the first time, other than like, uh

• 2:58:58Speaker 03

  uh I didn't even mention, in like the rule infraction of the academy, my own captain wrote in a a section where she was like I I too have also spoken with Officer Garduno and he has shown signs of disrespect, etc, or insubordination was the terminology. But that's, that's part of it, and then the next time I got written up, we were I was on, I was on night shift when I got there, just because they hated me, obviously. And so I was forced onto night shift and I was not sleeping, I was getting like three or four hours and I was waking up to my son. You know, he's he's a baby, so he's crying, so like, I was not getting the sleep I needed, so I was just surviving all caffeine.

• 2:59:41Speaker 03

  But uh like, the less sleep I got, the more attitude I had, just because I didn't have the tolerance for it. And one night, we get new recruits and they're on night shift and for whatever reason, I know that this one officer has a DUI, a previous DUI back in the day and I just look at him and smile and I was like, hey, brother, you get to be on the other side of a DUI tonight, and and I just laugh and walk away. Not think nothing about it, this is a very generic, typical conversation I have with people, like, I I I didn't even think it, I didn't even think it was that harsh, I've said way meaner things to other people. And I walk away, I go do my job, unlike most of the agency, I go out and start patrolling, stopping cars, trying to arrest people.

• 3:00:23Speaker 03

  And the probably like a week later, I get pulled into an office and it it's the captain, the patrol captain, he's like, you know what you said last time? I was like, what are you talking about? It's like, well, do you remember like making remarks towards another officer?

• 3:00:40Speaker 03

  It's like, what are you asking me, do I talk to other officers? I knew exactly why I was there, but I I was just, I was just playing, playing with him. And he's like, well, at at this point, he's like, uh stumbling over his words, he's like, well, what I'm trying to ask is, uh have you, have you been disrespectful to other officers? I was like, define disrespectful. And and we went back and forth, I was like, can you just tell me the quote that you want me to say? He's like, well, you said uh to another officer, he gets to be on the other side of a DUI? I was like, I don't remember, I don't, I don't remember if I said that or not, I was like am I getting in trouble for this, uh if so, I want my attorney present, cuz police have an FOP. And that's when he like closes book, he's like, no, no, no, you're not getting in trouble, uh I just need to talk to you about this, you know?

• 3:01:24Speaker 03

  Worst case and uh worst case scenario, it's just a written reprimand and and then it it it disappears and I was like, well, that doesn't sound that bad, I don't care, you could, you give me the written reprimand, I don't wanna get a attorney involved. So I get the written reprimand and I actually felt bad, cuz you know, I thought I heard this grown man's feelings with a joke. So I I go back to him and I was like, hey, man, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to offend you, he's like, what are you talking about? I was like, the joke, I got, I just got pulled into the office. He's like, I got pulled into the office, I told him I didn't care, I thought it was funny. I was like, and who wrote, who who snitched on me? And I went to my lieutenant and I I just wanted to know why I got in trouble.

• 3:02:06Speaker 03

  And I was like, hey, LT, you mind just looking into this, I got written up for a joke I made. I wanna know why. He's like, oh, fine, sure, you're always about drama, can you just do your job? Just joking, I was like, I do the most traffic stats out of anyone here, I don't wanna hear it. And he goes, he he goes asking around and come to find out, it was another officer got offended on his behalf. But it gets worse, they decided to write me up when they were at a bar drinking, talking about the incident. And and that's, that's, that that was the time that they decided, you know, he should get in trouble for this, and it was like yeah, maybe I shouldn't have said that, but at the same time, it's it's not that deep.

• 3:02:49Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, it's kind of a weak hit.

• 3:02:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, that that was the first sign that I was like, okay, I I am slowly not gonna be liked here. And I made a lot of mistakes, just because I I didn't know better. Uh and I knew better, a lot of the times, I just didn't wanna get in trouble or didn't wanna deal with the consequences and I say mistakes. It was it was a lot of like integrity mistakes on my behalf where I wasn't arresting police officers when I should have. And and one really, it bothers me to this day that I I should have taken this guy to jail. So where I worked in Westminster City, uh, there's a bar downtown where there's a one way. And if you're drunk, you're going the wrong way on the one way every time. I don't care if. I don't care. It it's a bar. It's a one way. You should go the one way.

• 3:03:35Speaker 03

  But I'm sitting, I'm sitting there across the street, just just hanging out. I don't even wanna do anything like it. I'm tired. I just wanna observe the crowds and just have the presence there, cause like a lot of times if you're there, people don't act out. They don't get into fights, stuff like that. But I see this car pulling out the wrong way, out of the one way. I was like, fine, I'll go stop him. So I run to my car. I light him up. And he pulls over right away. And he has the audacity to just hold his badge up to the window.

• 3:04:05Speaker 03

  So I knock on his window and I was like, you wanna roll the window down, buddy? And he's like, can't you see I'm a cop? I I'm one of you. You could just let me go. I was like, you're gonna roll the window down or I'm gonna break it and drag you out. And he's like, oh, you're one of them cops. I was like, can I see your license, registration and proof of insurance? And I'm just smiling at the the whole time. He's mad. Uh, he he has his gun very, very obviously displayed in like the center console. And he he gets the paperwork. And he hands it to me. He's still pissy about it. I was like, you keep talking. You're gonna talk yourself into jail. And he's like, oh, you wouldn't do that. Then we'd have like a turf war essentially. I was like, what are you even saying? Like, you know, you shouldn't be driving. Uh, I'm gonna go run you and then I'll go from there.

• 3:04:50Speaker 03

  So I go run him, uh, Baltimore City Cop and. I wanna take him to jail so bad just because of his attitude. So I. I call out that I'm on field sobriety and anytime you call out, uh, you're on field sobriety, another officer comes for backup just for safety reasons. And and it's the supervisor and I'm talking to him. I was like, I wanna take him to jail. And he's like, nah, you shouldn't. It's gonna look bad, you know? How about you just, uh, how about you just let him park his car and then tell him to get a ride home? I was like, but I wanna take him to jail. I don't like his attitude.

• 3:05:27Speaker 03

  He's like, he's like, ju- ju- just do it, man. I don't, I don't want the paperwork, you know, cause if you arrest a cop, they gotta reach out to the agency. They gotta. Submit the gun. They gotta transfer. It's a, it's a whole, it's a logistical nightmare. It ties him up for a really long time. So I was like, fine, I'll go let him park in the the library. That's a one way too. He can only go one way in this library as well. So I was like, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna let you park in this, in this parking lot. I'm gonna go sit on the other end of the one way and if I see you drive out, I'm gonna take you to jail. And. And so I do, I I I. I drove his car to the parking lot, cause I didn't want him driving. I was like, get a ride home or else you're gonna end up in jail and.

• 3:06:12Speaker 03

  He's still pissy with me. He's like, oh, I'm gonna go talk. I was drinking with my captain. He's not gonna stand for this. I was like, talk to whoever the fuck you want. I don't care. And I just, I I I leave at that point. I go, I drive up. It's like a U-turn, uh, library. So like, it's a one way this way. So he parked in on this, on the one side and I was just waiting on the other side. So I waited there and two minutes later. I see the same car pulling out.

• 3:06:37Jack Murphy?

  No shit.

• 3:06:39Speaker 03

  There, there's no way this guy has the fucking ego to pull out again. So I light it up again. I don't care who it is. I told you not to drive that car. I should, I should have towed it. But I I light him up again and it's the same fucking dude driving. I was like, you're going to jail. Hop out. You're doing field sobriety. And I started doing field sobriety and. He he's, he's wasted. I could have told you from the moment I spoke to him, just from the smell of the car, that he was drunk. And I started doing field sobriety until my, uh. My supervisor shows up and he's like, what are you doing? I was like, I'm taking him to jail. I don't care. I'm I'm fucking over it. And he's like, slow down. Come talk to me. Uh, so I I handcuff him. I put him in the back of my car and I go talk to my supervisor, supervisor. He's like, think about what you're about to do.

• 3:07:24Speaker 03

  You pulled him over. There's a record of you pulling him over. And then you let him go. And then you pulled him over again five minutes later and then you arrested him. How are you gonna explain that to a court? I was like, I don't know. I'll tell the truth, I guess. It's like, that's gonna look really bad on your integrity part. I was like, I was like, what would you have me do? He's like, just, just, just let me handle it. I was like, fine. Can you tow his car at least? Uh, can I tow his car? Can I do something to hurt him? Can I take his keys and chuck him in the woods? He's like, just let me handle it. I was like, fine, whatever. And I I just forget about it. I let it go, cause like, that was my first, like, encounter that I actually wanted to arrest a cop and I didn't.

• 3:08:09Speaker 03

  And I talked to him later. I was like, whatever happened to him? I was like, oh, his wife came, picked up his car and. They're super thankful. They they called in. I was like, yeah, but like, I sold my integrity, you know? I I didn't wanna do any of that. I was like. In the future, if I wanna arrest a cop, should I just arrest him from the beginning? He's like, that's up to you, man. I'm just gonna tell you the consequences. I was like, what do you mean consequences? It's a cop. He should go to jail if he's DUI. He's like, yeah, that's, that's what should happen, but in reality, what's gonna happen is. Every officer in this county is gonna hate you because you're arresting our friends essentially. And that was just the cop mentality at the time. I don't know if it's shifted.

• 3:08:44Jack Murphy?

  I doubt it.

• 3:08:47Speaker 03

  No, no, you gotta think positively. It's it's definitely for the better. It definitely doesn't happen anymore.

• 3:08:52Jack Murphy?

  I'm sure.

• 3:08:53Speaker 03

  This was twenty. Yeah, yeah. And there, there was a lot of mistakes that I made like that where. It was ju- it was just so blatantly obvious. You know, you're doing a hundred miles in a posted sixty. And you're drunk and you're coming from a police gathering and you expect me just to let you go? No. Give me your keys. I'm gonna chuck them in the lake. Cause if someone told me I could do that. So that's what I, that's what I started doing. I was just ch- chuck people's keys into random places and. Until I got in trouble for it. Someone complained about it and the, and I got pulled into the office. They're like, have you been chucking people's keys into the tree lines? I was like, yeah. They're like, why? I don't know. Someone said I could.

• 3:09:33Speaker 03

  I I got the green light, you know? They said I couldn't take him to jail, so I, you know, you punish them by making them walk home. And they're like, stop doing that. You're gonna get in trouble. I was like, why? I was like, it's either that or I take him to jail. I'd rather take him to jail, but. I don't, I don't wanna be like known as the cop who's arresting other cops. And. Uh, shortly after that, I got in trouble again and it was. This, this, this one's still, it's so annoying to me, so. I am downtown. It's like one or two in the morning and I'm bullshitting with one of my friends. As most cops do, you you go meet up and you just talk about all the incidents you have and that's just how they decompress.

• 3:10:13Speaker 03

  And we're just talking and I was like, we're, I see a car and I was like, that dude's a hundred percent drunk. I seen him like two blocks away. He's, he's crossing center line. And like, his headlights are off. I was like, there's, I was like, you want it? He's like, no, this is your sector. You pull him over. I was like, I don't wanna do a DUI tonight. I was like, fine, I'll do it. So I follow him. I follow him for like, uh, half a mile just to get more evidence. Uh, it's just, like, for me, it's like a. I got you crossing the center line seven times and, you know. You forgot to stop at a stop sign. It's just, it's just more reason. It's just more probable cause. So he finally gets to this warehouse parking lot. I light him up and it's suspicious to me, uh.

• 3:10:54Speaker 03

  That he still has his foot on the brake and it's very rare that you pull over someone and they keep their foot on the brake unless they plan on leaving. So this whole time, I'm, I'm just thinking to myself, what, what is this guy thinking? You know, like, why, why is he still think, like, he hasn't let off the brake. He's probably still in drive. I I'm just gonna stay here for a little bit, see if he tries to take off. And and he didn't do anything until. I was like, you know what? I I called out my stop, uh, you know, very generic police talk. Uh, vehicle description. It didn't have a vehicle tag, so I didn't call out tag, uh, gave, gave make and model and location. And after that. I I kicked my door open. I don't even, I don't even sit up. I don't even get out of my pu- pu- uh, patrol car, cause I know he, there's something weird about this.

• 3:11:39Speaker 03

  Uh, I kicked the door open and that's when he takes off. So I, I, I put it, I was still in drive. I, I stepped on the gas and followed him. And my door closes by itself with the momentum. But I started following him and this is my first pursuit. I don't know what a pursuit is. I've read the, the textbook. I know I have certain things I have to call out. And I started calling stuff out, you know, I'm heading this direction. This is the vehicle description. This, this is the vehicle speed. Uh, we're heading to this intersection. And this agency hasn't had a pursuit in a really long time, so it it was new and exciting for everyone. So you have all these officers calling in route. Meanwhile, I can't talk on the, on the radio because everyone else is like, uh, coming up with like blocking positions, you know, oh, I'm gonna go set up over here to.

• 3:12:24Speaker 03

  Uh, set up spikes or whatever. And the whole time, I'm, I'm just trying to get, like, relay the information that I need to. Like, uh, I had to call out weather conditions. I had to call out.

• 3:12:39Jack Murphy?

  We are directly under the sun now.

• 3:12:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, that, that, that's what I got written up for is failure to call out weather conditions, vehicle tag and then, uh, traffics. Traffic data. There, there was no traffic. It was two in the morning. Me and him were the only cars on the road. But tha- that's what, that's what I got written up for. But, um, I'm chasing this guy. We get to this intersection. It's, it's a busier one. And he wants to turn left, I guess, but he decided too late and he just spun out. But he just, he just did like a half circle and then he, he regained control and then started heading down this road where I know this road is. It's, it's a, it's a sharp turn. I know you cannot go that fast. So I started letting him get some distance on me because I know he's not gonna be able to make that turn at that speed. And he doesn't. He hits the median barrier. He rolls the car, flips it twice.

• 3:13:28Speaker 03

  And he's just stuck there. The car's rolled, rolled over and I just drive up to him and. Wait for him to crawl out and and it's one of the locals. I know him. Uh, it's one of the local crackheads. Uh. One of the bad boys and I was like, what are you doing? He's like. Ah, you caught me. I'm drunk. I have some, I have some dope on me. This car is not mine. He's like, you're gonna throw the book at me? I was like, probably, I kinda have to. Why'd you run? He's like, I don't know, I got scared. I was like, it's not my car. I was like, is this stolen? He's like, kinda? I was like, what do you mean kinda? It's either stolen or isn't.

• 3:14:09Speaker 03

  And he, he's just talking to me and uh, since he rolled the car, I had to take him to the hospital. And I'm just bullshitting with him. I don't, it, it's not that serious for me. Like, like, you know, I, I had my moment of fun, but now, now I could go back to just talking to the dude. Cause it was, he was a kid, you know, he was like eighteen, nineteen, just had a rough childhood. I've talked to him before. I've asked him about why he's on the street. I've responded to overdoses involving that person. So I'm talking to him and he's like, yeah, man, I just don't have very many options. Uh, uh, I was a crack baby very early on, like my mom hated me. I got abused. I was like, well, that makes sense. I see why you are in the situation you are. He's like, and we get to the hospital and he's like, are you gonna charge me with a dope that I'm hiding?

• 3:14:54Speaker 03

  I was like, it's like, what do you mean? He's like, I know I'm going to jail and I have dope somewhere hidden on me. Are you gonna charge me with it? I was like, how much is it? He's like, oh, it's just a, it's just a pipe. It's, it's nothing crazy. I was like, I don't know, I'll hit you with a misdemeanor charge i- if you give it to me. He's like, alright, that's better than the felony if he, he was to take it to jail. I was like, alright, whatever. So he gives it to me, hands it over and you know, it's, it's very casual conversation. I'm not like mad at him. I'm not, it's, it's not a big deal. So I take him to jail, I book him and I, I do all my paperwork, uh, and and I submit it and then I go home, cause it took me all day to do all that paperwork of between a vehicle rolling over a pursuit. And I just wanted it to be like a finished product when I submitted it.

• 3:15:40Speaker 03

  And I submit it and then I, the next day it's, I have so much red tape on it. I was like, wha- what do you mean? I've, I've written police reports for a while now. I've never had one that was this uh, scrutinized. And they're like, yeah, well, it's because the, the pursuit policy is gonna change after that pursuit. We're not, we're no longer allowed to change af- for DUIs. I was like, because of the pursuit I had? They're like, yeah, it's too much liability for the police department. I was like, okay, whatever. I was like, I fixed, I made my corrections, wha- whatever they recommended on the police report, just to make it sound more professional. Cover their asses. And I didn't think anything of it. A month later, I get pulled into an office and

• 3:16:24Speaker 03

  the, the, the crazy part is I was, I was getting like high fives, good jobs the whole time, you know, up until this point. There, I get pulled into an office and they're like, you remember that pursuit you had? I was like, the one that was within policy? Yeah, why? And they're like, yeah, well, the policies change and uh, we're not gonna write you up because of the policy change, but we kind of are. I was like, what are you saying? They're like, well, we, we scrubbed the, the tapes, we, we listened to the dispatch recordings and uh, you, you failed to call out vehicle tag, weather conditions and traffic. I was like, yeah, because there was no airtime. I was like, have you gone back and looked at how much free airtime there, there was? Because I did.

• 3:17:09Speaker 03

  There was two seconds where someone could have spoke and it takes longer than two seconds to key up. So why am I getting written up for this? They're like, well, you know, it's just the, the fact that you didn't, you didn't call out at, like you were supposed to, you violated the policy. And that's when I got mad. That, that's when it was personal to me, you know, it, it was no longer about right or wrong. It was, it was, it was like a personal attack towards me. And so I just was like, I need to talk to an attorney. I need to have attorney present. I'm not, I'm not doing this with you today. And he's like, okay, no, we'll, we'll, we'll get you an attorney. We'll talk about it then. And that's when I started like uh, getting my foot out the door. I, I started looking at other agencies and I just started documenting.

• 3:17:49Speaker 03

  I started documenting every policy they violated. Every person there had a po- policy they violated and I wrote about it. Uh, I, when I left, I had like a, a couple pages that I turned in and, and it's crazy. So for Westminster City, when you leave, if they know you're leaving, they're gonna open an internal investigation on you, so you cannot leave. So you cannot leave until the in- internal investigation is complete. And I know they're gonna listen to this, so I want them to know that the workaround is you go get hired by another agency and the day you quit Westminster City is the day you get hired by the new agency. And that is the only way you could leave that agency if you're on bad terms with them.

• 3:18:31Speaker 03

  And that's exactly what I did. When I left, I left them a couple pages of things that they did wrong. Um, you're not allowed to have your police dog or your personal dog in a police vehicle. The chief was doing that. I, I wrote about it. I put timestamps on it. They have the paperwork. There, there was just so many things like that, that I documented because I was sick of being targeted on policies that were selectively enforced. It doesn't make sense. Why would they do that? Yeah, and, and it's just, it's just like the good old boys club, you know, you're out here trying to make a change and for me it was

• 3:19:10Speaker 03

  I, I just wanted to have, I just wanted people to have more positive interactions. If you pull up my traffic stats, you're gonna see I wrote so many warnings. Uh, but then I, I, I switched over to a smaller agency, Manchester Police Department. And, and that, that leadership was so much better. Do you have any questions on Westminster?

• 3:19:30Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, yeah, no, I just wanna, um, I, we've been going for like three hours, three fifteen. I just wanna like kinda move it to, um, you know, you, you decided in the end, you know, the police department wasn't really for you, moved into the private sector. Um, can you talk to us a little bit about, you know, recovery? And um, the book that you're working on?

• 3:19:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. I'll, I'll wrap it up. Um, yeah, police, uh, I realized that, you know, it was a, it was a bad loop, you know, I was, I was doing, I was just avoiding all the emotions and stuff. And I, I was just trying to escape, you know, it, it was that police or uh, military mentality of you gotta keep moving. So when I got, when I was at Manchester for two years, I decided to go to California to go be a cop out there. And, and it was just a, a form of escape and I, I, I flew out there. I did their course where you get certified to be a cop in their state. Um, it, it wasn't hard. It was fairly easy for me. I don't know, it was very by textbook, so you just remember the stuff and

• 3:20:34Speaker 03

  it was easy. So I did that and then I moved out there and started applying to every agency I could find and it, it wasn't, it was my first one, uh, San Marcos, uh, Police Department or Chula Vista, one of those two that I applied to and I got all the way up until the polygraph and in the polygraph room, I experienced a panic attack for the first time. And I didn't have a label for it. I just knew that my heart hurt. It felt like, like my chest was tightening and I just didn't know what it was at the time. And the, the polygrapher is like, well, uh, you're showing s- signs of deception and I was, I was being completely honest with us. Honestly, I'm stressed out. I don't wanna be here. This is, this is a small room. I, I can't sit still a lot of the times.

• 3:21:20Speaker 03

  Um, at the time, I was already di- diagnosed with PTSD. And uh, he put in my paperwork that I was being deceptive and, you know, my integrity is, is up for discussion and it essentially blacklisted me from ever being a police officer ever again. So every agency that I applied to had to contact that agency and they pretty much just said, you know, he, he's gonna be dishonest. Even though I was a cop, you know, a couple of months ago. But then I decided to be a truck driver, did that for like two years and a lot of the same, you know, just avoiding emotions, not facing them. And mind you, I, I've, I've been doing uh, whatever the VA recommended since twenty eighteen.

• 3:22:00Speaker 03

  So it wasn't until like a year ago where I reached my breaking point, you know, I was drinking way too much. I was brewing my own alcohol. I got to the point where I was drinking like five gallons a day and it, I was just numbing. I was numbing hard and I knew it. I, I knew I was avoiding something. I just didn't know how to deal with it, you know, I was, I was asking the VA, what can I do? To make me feel better. And like, oh, you gotta try all these different medications and we, I went up and down all the medication routes. From twenty eighteen to last year, we got to a point where there was just like, we've tried mostly all the medications, you know? Maybe it's, it's time to try something else. It's like, well, I've been trying therapy, but I go every two months. What benefit does that have?

• 3:22:45Speaker 03

  Like, yeah, that's just the way the VA schedules it. I was like, well, can I go more? And like, well, you can. You just gotta go to the community. I was like, well, how come no one ever told me this? It's like, well, you didn't ask. It's like, I, I am barely in a state of mind to survive. How am I gonna ask for more help?

• 3:22:59Jack Murphy?

  Yeah.

• 3:23:00Speaker 03

  But, uh, uh, right after Christmas, I, I reached my breaking point. I was, I was just drinking to, to forget. I wasn't drinking to have a good time. I was, I was just numbing as hard as possible. And I just reached the point where I was like, I'd rather just fucking die, man. Like, I'm, I'm so sick of living like this. Like, I have, I have a wife and two kids. I know I have a reason to live, but I don't, I don't feel that, I don't feel it. And

• 3:23:31Speaker 03

  I ended up just asking my wife, it's like, what should I do? Like, I don't know, I don't know where to go from here. And she's like, uh, you go check yourself into a psych ward. I was like, what, what good is that gonna do for me? Like, they can't help me. And I was like, you know what? I'll, I'll try just a detox off of alcohol or be done with it. And I checked myself in at a Lebanon VA medical center. And it is the worst experience for me. I, I am so miserable there. I get there, I'm, I'm immediately scanning doors. I'm looking at my exits. I'm, I already know how to get out. I had to take one key card, scan it, and then I am out the door. I can run from here.

• 3:24:12Speaker 03

  And I get there and they give me a room and it is so terrifying to me. Um, at this point, I, I was, I was way bigger than what I am now. I was, I was like fifty, sixty pounds heavier. Uh, I was using a CPAP to sleep. And I asked them, I was like, can I, can I have, can I have a CPAP? Uh, I needed to sleep and they're like, well, uh, did you bring it with you? I was like, no, I'm, I'm barely surviving. I wanna kill myself. Why would I bring a CPAP? And, and they're like, well, we can assign you one. Uh, you just won't be able to have a roommate. I was like, okay, uh, I guess I won't have a roommate. Okay, we'll, we'll get back to you. And I guess they forgot or whatever. So I was just in a room by myself without my CPAP.

• 3:24:57Speaker 03

  And for those of you that have never been to a psych ward, they check in on you every fifteen minutes, whether you're awake or asleep. And believe it or not, for someone who can't sleep and suffers from PTSD, you checking in on me every fifteen minutes? I'm gonna wake up every fifteen minutes. So like, I was there for,

• 3:25:18Speaker 03

  uh, I wanna say it was like, uh, five days total. But the first two days were okay, cuz I was still running off like the previous sleep I had. But the longer I, I was there, I was just getting so angry because I couldn't sleep.

• 3:25:33Speaker 03

  And I masked really well. Like, I can pretend like stuff doesn't bother me for a really long time until, you know, I start losing sleep and then I, I can, I can't hold it as long, you know? I feel like that's just like a, a normal human trait. But the longer I'm there, I just start wanting to out, outburst on people, outrage. And I'm telling them, I was like, can I go home? Like, I, I, I didn't even feel withdrawals from the alcohol. I just wanna go home. I wanna be back in where I feel safe. Like, you guys are putting me in a box in here. Like, I already know how I can leave. I just had to hurt you and then I'll be out of here. And obviously, that, that is not what you tell someone in a psych ward.

• 3:26:14Speaker 03

  Cuz they asked me, they're like, how would you get out of here? Well, I would beat the shit out of you. Take your key card and then walk out. If I wanted to leave, like, just, like, just knowing that I could. And they're like, well, yeah, you, you, you, you don't have to hurt us. You, we would just give you the key card. We don't wanna be hurt.

• 3:26:32Speaker 03

  But, but, but like, talking to them, and since I went on, um, the day after, uh, Christmas, there was no doctors there. So there was no one there to discharge me. And, and I knew going into it that I could leave whenever I want if I went in there voluntarily. So I told them that, I was like, I checked myself in.

• 3:26:57Speaker 03

  Uh, in Pennsylvania, it's called a two oh one versus a three oh one. A two oh one is voluntarily and three oh one is, uh, court mandated, police mandated, whatever. So I, I two oh one myself. I, I skipped a couple pieces, but, uh, real fast, I drove myself to the York VA, flying a hundred and twelve. My truck doesn't go any faster. Uh, I talked to the guy there, I was like, I don't know what's wrong with me, but I just don't wanna be here anymore. Uh, what do you recommend? And then, uh, he's like, oh, you should go check yourself into a hospital. And that's how I ended up in Lebanon. I ended up at a, a local hospital. I sat there for a night and I was miserable there cuz I was stuck next to someone screaming the whole night, so I didn't sleep there. And then they transferred me to the Lebanon VA.

• 3:27:41Speaker 03

  And while I was there, same, you know, not sleeping, trying to leave, because, you know, at this point, I'd been there three days and it, it lined up to New Year's. And they're like, well, no doctor's gonna come in. They're on call, but they're not gonna come in to come check you out. I was like, what are you talking about? I was like, I voluntarily came here. I can leave whenever I want. You guys, uh, it's only a seventy-two hour hold. I, I am way past that. And they, they just kept me there until finally a doctor came in on, I think it was right after, uh, New Year's. And I was like, can I go home, please? I am tired of being here. Like, well, you have to start a medical regimen. I was like, I've been taking whatever meds you guys prescribed. Can I just leave? I'm tired of being here.

• 3:28:26Speaker 03

  And finally, they're like, yeah, well, here's some resources. There's this program, it's, it's here in Lebanon. You, you go, it's therapy, you know, you, it's intensive therapy. You go to a place and you live there and you go to classes. I was like, I'll try it, sure. Uh, so I started taking their medication, whatever they prescribed, you know, blindly, not really knowing that I was numbing the emotions instead of actually feeling them. And I go to the, uh, I take like a couple of days to gather my stuff, let my wife know, you know, I'm gonna go do this thirty day thing where it's thirty days I live there and it's therapy essentially, in- intensive therapy. I was like, uh, at this point, I'll try anything.

• 3:29:09Speaker 03

  So I get there and it, it's, it's a bad experience in the sense where it's, it's a group, uh, it's a bunch of veterans, it's a group thing, and I'm opening up about some of my trauma. And, and I'm, and I'm getting graphic cuz I don't care. I, I, I've lived it in my mind long enough to where it doesn't bother me. And they're like, oh, wait, wait, wait, wait. Uh, no, no graphic details. It's like, what do you mean, no graphic details? It's like, I am trying to express my, my thoughts and how I feel. And they're like, well, you're gonna trigger other people. And I was like, isn't that what, what I'm here for? Isn't, how am I supposed to get through the problems if I don't talk about it? Yeah, you're supposed to do that in your one-on-one therapies, et cetera. I was like, well, what do you want me to do? They're like, well, just talk about it without getting into graphic details.

• 3:29:54Speaker 03

  I was like, I don't think I can. Like, I was like, well, uh, ju- just wait until your one-on-one sessions. And that mentality was like, well, then I guess I'll just shut the fuck up and not say anything.

• 3:30:04Jack Murphy?

  Right, right.

• 3:30:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, so like, I was there for ten days and I was just like, I'm sick of this place. I'm not learning anything. I am away from my wife and kids. I am doing more harm than good. I, I, I'm leaving. You guys are a waste of my time, you know? You guys, you guys aren't helping me the way I believe I should be helped.

• 3:30:21Speaker 03

  So I, I get out of there and while talking, while being there, they talk about a therapy called RTMS. It's essentially where they hook up a wa- a wire, electrical current next to your brain, and it stimulates, uh, the fear factor part of your brain. And they explained to me, I was like, I'll try it. I got nothing to lose at this point. And at this point, I stopped drinking. I'm still flailing, you know? I'm still trying to, trying to find something to numb. And they tell me, you can't change your-

• 3:30:54Speaker 05

  Making plans with asthma can be awful. It always goes from, that sounds fun, to, in this weather, what if my asthma acts up? I got tired of saying no, so my doctor suggested Dupixent. I'm Rachel, and I'm sponsored by Regeneron in Santa Fe to share my story with real patients like me.

• 3:31:08Speaker 01

  Dupixent, Dupilumab, is an add-on prescription maintenance treatment for adults and children six years and up with moderate to severe eosinophilic or oral steroid-dependent asthma that's not controlled with current asthma medicines. Dupixent is not for sudden breathing problems.

• 3:31:19Speaker 05

  Dupixent helps people breathe better in as little as two weeks. And now I don't even think twice about saying yes to plans more, rain or shine.

• 3:31:26Speaker 01

  Severe allergic reactions, including skin reactions, can occur. Get help right away for face, mouth, tongue, or throat swelling, wheezing, or trouble breathing. Tell your doctor right away of signs of inflamed blood vessels like rash, chest pain, worsening shortness of breath, brown or dark-colored urine, tingling or numbness in limbs. Tell your doctor of new or worsening skin symptoms, joint aches and pain, or a parasitic infection. Don't change or stop other treatments without talking to your doctor.

• 3:31:47Speaker 05

  Do more with less asthma. Ask your asthma specialist about Dupixent by name. Visit dupixent.com or call one eight four four Dupixent.

• 3:31:54Speaker 00

  Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds, up to two hundred thousand dollars, right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval. Nine one one, what's your emergency? Please help us.

• 3:32:32Speaker 06

  911 Nashville returns. It's a homicide detective down here. Three bodies on the ground. With emergencies of biblical proportions. I will send swarms upon you and upon your people. That's one of the plagues of the Bible. And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville. Brian Phillippe joins 911 Nashville, all new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 3:32:54Speaker 03

  Medication while you're doing this treatment, I was like, okay, I was like, what else can I change? They're like, you have to keep the same caffeine intake, same, keep the same routine, no matter what. And at this time I picked up medical marijuana and I was using that to, to suppress a little bit, just to keep me from being completely unstable. But I, I did that treatment. It's impossible. There is no way that someone who has not as strong willed as people like us would make every appointment and maintain the level of rigidityness that you need for you to drink coffee at the same time, you to keep the same routine. Like I was going to these appointments and I was breaking down on my way there.

• 3:33:39Speaker 03

  Like I was going through tears, like it was not easy because it was like a three hour drive every day, Monday to Friday for 35 days. And I didn't believe in it. I didn't think it changed anything. It wasn't until like day 33 that I finally saw a change. Like I, I started feeling emotions a little, a little bit brighter. Like I could, I could like actually remember like incidents, like before it was just like, I couldn't, I couldn't picture it. I couldn't like see the whole picture. And it was just a little bit more clear on like day 33, I started to feel a little bit more. But I still had like a mental blocks where I'd remember bits and pieces. And that's when I started writing, like, uh, the main reason I started writing was I wanted my kids

• 3:34:20Speaker 03

  to know the life I had and it's fucked up to say, it was, it was essentially a suicide note at one point, you know, I wanted them to understand why, why I took my own life, which I never did, obviously. But that's what it was. And through writing it, I got to realize why I am the way I am, you know? It wasn't by luck or chance that I am this messed up. But I did the TMS and then I just leaned way too hard into medical marijuana, where I was smoking way too much that it was a medical, medical marijuana induced psychosis. I ended up in another psych ward. And it was just because I was hearing voices, like, like I was, I was picturing things.

• 3:35:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, like I was, it got to a point where I was listening to the song and the song was repeating the lyrics. Uh, no one man should have all this power. And, uh, in my mind, I already knew where I, where I would do it, you know, in the middle of the woods, away from everyone, so I wouldn't bother anyone. And subconsciously I was walking there and I guess something clicked on my way there where it was like, stop, what are you doing? And I still had, I had these headphones on and it was playing that song, no one man should have all this power. And then when I get to the, the spot where I wanted to end my life, I, something stops me. And I was like, fuck it, just go to your room, go to bed, uh, do it tomorrow.

• 3:35:47Speaker 03

  That, that mentality, I, I, I ran to my bedroom. I, I took off the headphones. I, I disconnected everything, like I was that paranoid where I thought like people can hear me through the CPAP. And I told my wife about it. I was like, there's something wrong. I need to go check myself in. And I did, I ended up in another psych ward and it, it was the same thing, you know? I, I am caged up again. I am not sleeping, CPAP all over again. And here I am not nice about it. I am, I am lashing out on anyone who is looking in my direction just because I am so sick of being treated like, like, like I have a problem and no one's listening. This time I came prepared. I took out the drawstrings out of my sweatpants. I brought my CPAP.

• 3:36:29Speaker 03

  I was, I, I, I, I dressed for the occasion, dressed for the job he wanted to have. But I get there and they don't give me my CPAP. Cause if you have a CPAP, you have to have a room to yourself and they didn't have the, the staffing, they didn't have the room or the staffing for that. And I was like, I brought my CPAP. Can I just have it to sleep? Like I sleep better with it. And they're like, no, uh, we don't have the rooms where if you have a CPAP, you gotta be in a room by yourself. I was like, you know what? Whatever. It is fucking midnight. I just want to go to sleep. So they take me to a room and I have a roommate in there and obviously I have trust issues, you know? I can't really sleep with someone sleeping next to me that has mental health problems.

• 3:37:12Speaker 03

  Uh, but I, I'm awake every 15 minutes all over again. And in the morning I go up to the nurse and I'm like, can I please just get my CPAP in a room to myself? Like I, I struggle from PTSD, anxiety and depression. Like this is making my situation worse. Like, yeah, no, you gotta wait till the doctor gets here, blah, blah, blah. I was like, can I please just go outside and touch some grass? Like I am tired of being cooped up in here. Like, yeah, that's scheduled for this time. I was like, well, you, you gave me a pamphlet with the rules and regulations and on the pamphlet, it says if it's in line with my religion, I am allowed to touch grass. So fuck it, I'm religious now. I need to go touch grass. And they did not like that. They're like, well, now, now you're just trying to play the system.

• 3:37:57Speaker 03

  I was like, I'm gonna sue you guys if you guys don't let me touch grass. And, uh, so like, fine, I'll go talk to the doctor. And they, I did a lot of back and forth with them. They're like, oh, you gotta go to your classes. I was like, fine, I'll go to my classes. I was like, can I go touch grass now? They're like, no. I was like, I'm gonna touch grass whether you guys want me to or not. Like I am gonna get violent if you guys keep talking to me this way. And they're like, well, now you're high risk. We're gonna switch you to a high risk unit. I was like, can I, can I go fucking touch grass, please? And they're, they, they finally let me. They let me out there for, shit you not, 30 seconds.

• 3:38:33Speaker 03

  And I get out there, I sit on the grass and I'm finally feeling grounded again, you know? I'm feeling less violent and they come back out. They're like, all right, time's up. You gotta get to your class.

• 3:38:43Speaker 03

  I was like, I'm gonna hurt you if you keep talking to me like this. I could leave. I could jump this fence right now because it was outside. And I was like, I could jump this fence and just leave. I, I'm here voluntarily. I could have left whenever the fuck I wanted. And they're like, well, you, you're, you're getting people worked up around here. We're gonna switch you to the high risk unit. And I get over here and it's, it's the same thing. It's just a bunch of people like me who are just like mad at the world. And people are staring at me. You should not be staring at me. I am way too mad and sleep deprived for your bullshit.

• 3:39:14Speaker 03

  And I get there and there's one guy who's trying to establish dominance by eyeing me up and down. So I look at him. I was like, what the fuck are you looking at me for? You want to kiss me or what? And he's so confused by the statement that he's just like, what'd you say? I was like, you heard me? And he's like, I wasn't, I wasn't ready for that. I thought you were gonna try to fight me. I was like, I thought you were gonna try to fight me. And we just talked it out and like, we got over it. But I was stuck there. Like I was trying to leave for another day and the same thing. I asked for a pamphlet and then I just started crossing off all their rules and regulations and how they violated them. And the whole time I'm telling them, I was like, can I go home? Like I am, I am over the psychosis stuff. Like it was, it was just that in the moment, medical marijuana induced. And they're like, no, you gotta talk to a doctor.

• 3:39:59Speaker 03

  I was like, please, you're wrong. I know you're wrong. I am 201. I am here by, I'm voluntarily here. Please just let me go. And they're like, well, you need a safety plan. You needed someone to come pick you up. I was like, my wife will pick me up. Uh, here's her number. Just call her. And they're like, well, we can't do that without your consent. I was like, I am giving it to you. They're like, well, you need to fill out the paperwork. And finally they let me call her and I called my wife. I was like, have they reached out to you? And she's like, no, no one's talked to me. You're the first person that's spoken to me. I was like, I asked them to call you like three different times. They're like, yeah, I tried calling, but I needed a code. I was like, yeah, I asked them for the code. They haven't gave it to me.

• 3:40:41Speaker 03

  And my, my wife is frustrated at this point. She's like, how do I get you out of there? I was like, uh, I don't know. I've been trying to get out of here since I got here.

• 3:40:49Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, geez.

• 3:40:51Speaker 03

  Yeah. So, so this is making the situation worse. They're like forcing me to classes. They're still not letting me touch grass.

• 3:40:57Jack Murphy?

  You, you know, I mean, I, I hate to say it, Eduardo, but I bet they were getting paid. The hospital was getting paid more money to have that bed you were in occupied. And that's why they kept you there.

• 3:41:10Speaker 03

  Uh, I don't disagree with you. I, I don't know the logistics behind it, but I just know it's wrong. Like I know.

• 3:41:15Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, I agree. Yeah.

• 3:41:18Speaker 03

  Even just for my mental sanity, like I was so close to like actually hurting someone just because I couldn't control myself anymore, just from the sleep deprivenness. And I had a lot of self-control where like if, if for whatever reason you look at what my notes are, I was way more controlled than what I am saying, just because I was masking so hard. Like I, I was holding it back because I knew that I would stay there longer if I hurt someone, you know? They wouldn't let me leave. And then at the end of it, they, they finally let me leave. I talked to the patient advocacy guy. And I was like, where the fuck have you been? I've been trying to talk to you for like three days now. And he's like, oh, I was on vacation. It was my days off, et cetera.

• 3:41:57Speaker 03

  I was like, well, I kinda needed you and I don't need you anymore, but here's a book filled of all the mistakes this place is making. And they, they finally let me go and my wife was like, yeah, I, I don't think I'll ever do that to you again. I'm sorry. I thought that was our best route. I was like, no, I, I needed it, but that wasn't our best route. Then after that I did, uh, just to wrap it up, I did a outpatient for six weeks where it was all, for the most part it was virtual. And you just learn like coping mechanisms, uh, you get to listen to other people's stories and then you just relate. And then through that I realized, you know, not everyone is, like, uh, not everyone is out to get you, uh, thing, you know, there's other people hurting,

• 3:42:41Speaker 03

  even though they weren't in the military, they understand like the, the pain we've been through and they, they related a lot of the times. And for me, it was a lot of the childhood trauma that, that really weighed on me. It wasn't, it wasn't too much of the military stuff. It was a lot of like, I could talk about the military stuff all day long, but the, the childhood trauma is a lot of the stuff I couldn't remember. And doing that therapy helped me remember a lot of it. But.

• 3:43:05Jack Murphy?

  And the book is tentatively called The, The Demons Within, right?

• 3:43:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's definitely one of those things where it's all it's all in your brain, you know, the good and bad, like, however you want to picture it, you know, whatever religion you subscribe to.

• 3:43:23Jack Murphy?

  I I read what you have so far that you know, you sent me prior to this interview. And I'm looking forward and hoping that you get it out there when you're ready.

• 3:43:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's just one of those things where I don't want to put out an unfinished product, you know, I want it to have the.

• 3:43:40Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, take your time.

• 3:43:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, but now things are things are looking up, you know, I get to be a stay at home dad, you know, I get to spend time with my wife, I have a kid on the way. Like, it's not all bad, I know, I know, it sounds like I've been through hell, probably because I have been, but I made it on the other side of it, and things are looking better.

• 3:44:01Jack Murphy?

  Oh, that's terrific, I'm glad to hear it. Is there anything you want to shout out before we go? Do you want to tell people about like your Instagram page or anything else out there that you'd like to direct people to?

• 3:44:12Speaker 03

  If you guys want to, you guys can have my Instagram, it's just my name, Eduardo two underscores, my last name, Garduno, but I'm sure I'm sure they'll find it if they want to find it.

• 3:44:23Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, we'll put a link down the description of the podcast. But Eduardo, thank you for sharing your story, man. As you said, I mean, you've kind of been through hell. I know it's a lot to talk about, but I am glad and I'm glad that other people are going to get to hear your story.

• 3:44:38Speaker 03

  Yeah, no, I appreciate your time. I mean, I believe in what you're doing, and I truly believe the only way you heal is by talking about it.

• 3:44:45Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, for sure, man. And there's a lot of other people out there who will hear this and, you know, it reminds them that they're not alone.

• 3:44:51Speaker 03

  I agree.

• 3:44:53Jack Murphy?

  So, for everyone else, thank you for joining us on the show tonight, and we'll see you next week.

• 3:45:01Speaker 03

  See you, brother, take care.

• 3:45:04Speaker 05

  Making plans with asthma can be awful. It always goes from, that sounds fun, to, in this weather, what if my asthma acts up? I got tired of saying no, so my doctor suggested Dupixent. I'm Rachel, and I'm sponsored by Regeneron in Santa Fe to share my story with real patients like me.

• 3:45:20Speaker 01

  Dupixent, Dupilumab, is an add-on prescription maintenance treatment for adults and children six years and up with moderate to severe eosinophilic or oral steroid-dependent asthma that's not controlled with current asthma medicines. Dupixent is not for sudden breathing problems.

• 3:45:32Speaker 05

  Dupixent helps people breathe better in as little as two weeks. And now I don't even think twice about saying yes to plans more, rain or shine.

• 3:45:39Speaker 01

  Severe allergic reactions, including skin reactions, can occur. Get help right away for face, mouth, tongue, or throat swelling, wheezing, or trouble breathing. Tell your doctor right away of signs of inflamed blood vessels like rash, chest pain, worsening shortness of breath, brown or dark colored urine, tingling or numbness in limbs. Tell your doctor of new or worsening skin symptoms, joint aches and pain, or a parasitic infection. Don't change or stop other treatments without talking to your doctor.

• 3:45:59Speaker 05

  Do more with less asthma. Ask your asthma specialist about Dupixent by name. Visit dupixent.com or call 1-844-DUPIXENT.

• 3:46:06Speaker 06

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• 3:46:36Speaker 00

  911, what's your emergency? Please help us, they're everywhere. We think they're murder warnings.

• 3:46:45Speaker 06

  911 Nashville returns.

• 3:46:48Speaker 03

  It's a homicide detective down here.

• 3:46:50Speaker 06

  Three bodies on the ground. With emergencies of biblical proportions. I will send swarms upon you and upon your people. That's one of the plagues for the Bible. And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville. Brian Phillippe joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 3:47:06Speaker 05

  Making plans with asthma can be awful. It always goes from, that sounds fun, to, in this weather, what if my asthma acts up? I got tired of saying no, so my doctor suggested Dupixent. I'm Rachel, and I'm sponsored by Regeneron in Santa Fe to share my story with real patients like me.

• 3:47:27Speaker 01

  Dupixent, Dupilumab, is an add-on prescription maintenance treatment for adults and children six years and up with moderate to severe eosinophilic or oral steroid-dependent asthma that's not controlled with current asthma medicines. Dupixent is not for sudden breathing problems.

• 3:47:39Speaker 05

  Dupixent helps people breathe better in as little as two weeks. And now I don't even think twice about saying yes to plans more, rain or shine.

• 3:47:45Speaker 01

  Severe allergic reactions, including skin reactions, can occur. Get help right away for face, mouth, tongue, or throat swelling, wheezing, or trouble breathing. Tell your doctor right away of signs of inflamed blood vessels like rash, chest pain, worsening shortness of breath, brown or dark colored urine, tingling or numbness in limbs. Tell your doctor of new or worsening skin symptoms, joint aches and pain, or a parasitic infection. Don't change or stop other treatments without talking to your doctor.

• 3:48:06Speaker 05

  Do more with less asthma. Ask your asthma specialist about Dupixent by name. Visit dupixent.com or call 1-844-DUPIXENT.

• 3:48:13Speaker 00

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 help make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval. 911, what's your emergency? Please help us, they're everywhere. We think they're murder warnings.

• 3:48:51Speaker 06

  911 Nashville returns.

• 3:48:53Speaker 03

  It's a homicide detective down here.

• 3:48:55Speaker 06

  Three bodies on the ground. With emergencies of biblical proportions. I will send swarms upon you and upon your people. That's one of the plagues for the Bible. And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville. Brian Phillippe joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 3:49:12Speaker 05

  Making plans with asthma can be awful. It always goes from, that sounds fun, to, in this weather, what if my asthma acts up? I got tired of saying no, so my doctor suggested Dupixent. I'm Rachel, and I'm sponsored by Regeneron in Santa Fe to share my story with real patients like me.

• 3:49:32Speaker 01

  Dupixent, Dupilumab, is an add-on prescription maintenance treatment for adults and children six years and up with moderate to severe eosinophilic or oral steroid-dependent asthma that's not controlled with current asthma medicines. Dupixent is not for sudden breathing problems.

• 3:49:43Speaker 05

  Dupixent helps people breathe better in as little as two weeks. And now I don't even think twice about saying yes to plans more, rain or shine.

• 3:49:50Speaker 01

  Severe allergic reactions, including skin reactions, can occur. Get help right away for face, mouth, tongue, or throat swelling, wheezing, or trouble breathing. Tell your doctor right away of signs of inflamed blood vessels like rash, chest pain, worsening shortness of breath, brown or dark colored urine, tingling or numbness in limbs. Tell your doctor of new or worsening skin symptoms, joint aches and pain, or a parasitic infection. Don't change or stop other treatments without talking to your doctor.

• 3:50:11Speaker 05

  Do more with less asthma. Ask your asthma specialist about Dupixent by name. Visit dupixent.com or call 1-844-DUPIXENT.

• 3:50:18Speaker 00

  Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds up to $200,000 right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval. 911, what's your emergency? Please help us, they're everywhere. We think they're murder warnings.

• 3:50:57Speaker 06

  911 Nashville returns.

• 3:51:00Speaker 03

  It's a homicide detective down here.

• 3:51:01Speaker 06

  Three bodies on the ground. With emergencies of biblical proportions. I will send swarms upon you and upon your people. That's one of the plagues for the Bible. And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville. Brian Phillippe joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 3:51:18Speaker 05

  Making plans with asthma can be awful. It always goes from, that sounds fun, to, in this weather, what if my asthma acts up? I got tired of saying no, so my doctor suggested Dupixent. I'm Rachel, and I'm sponsored by Regeneron in Santa Fe to share my story with real patients like me.

• 3:51:38Speaker 01

  Dupixent, Dupilumab, is an add-on prescription maintenance treatment for adults and children six years and up with moderate to severe eosinophilic or oral steroid-dependent asthma that's not controlled with current asthma medicines. Dupixent is not for sudden breathing problems.

• 3:51:50Speaker 05

  Dupixent helps people breathe better in as little as two weeks. And now I don't even think twice about saying yes to plans more, rain or shine.

• 3:51:56Speaker 01

  Severe allergic reactions, including skin reactions, can occur. Get help right away for face, mouth, tongue, or throat swelling, wheezing, or trouble breathing. Tell your doctor right away of signs of inflamed blood vessels like rash, chest pain, worsening shortness of breath, brown or dark colored urine, tingling or numbness in limbs. Tell your doctor of new or worsening skin symptoms, joint aches and pain, or a parasitic infection. Don't change or stop other treatments without talking to your doctor.

• 3:52:17Speaker 05

  Do more with less asthma. Ask your asthma specialist about Dupixent by name. Visit dupixent.com or call 1-844-DUPIXENT.

• 3:52:24Speaker 00

  Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds up to $200,000 right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval. 911, what's your emergency? Please help us, they're everywhere. We think they're murder warnings.

• 3:53:03Speaker 06

  911 Nashville returns.

• 3:53:06Speaker 03

  It's a homicide detective down here.

• 3:53:07Speaker 06

  Three bodies on the ground. With emergencies of biblical proportions. I will send swarms upon you and upon your people. That's one of the plagues for the Bible. And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville. Brian Phillippe joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 3:53:31Speaker 05

  Making plans with asthma can be awful. It always goes from "That sounds fun" to "In this weather, what if my asthma acts up?" I got tired of saying no, so my doctor suggested Dupixent. I'm Rachel, and I'm sponsored by Regeneron in Santa Fe to share my story with real patients like me.

• 3:53:45Speaker 01

  Dupixent, dupilumab, is an add-on prescription maintenance treatment for adults and children six years and up with moderate to severe eosinophilic or oral steroid-dependent asthma that's not controlled with current asthma medicines. Dupixent is not for sudden breathing problems.

• 3:53:56Speaker 05

  Dupixent helps people breathe better in as little as two weeks. And now, I don't even think twice about saying yes to plans more, rain or shine.

• 3:54:03Speaker 01

  Severe allergic reactions, including skin reactions, can occur. Get help right away for face, mouth, tongue, or throat swelling, wheezing, or trouble breathing. Tell your doctor right away of signs of inflamed blood vessels like rash, chest pain, worsening shortness of breath, brown or dark-colored urine, tingling or numbness in limbs. Tell your doctor of new or worsening skin symptoms, joint aches and pain, or a parasitic infection. Don't change or stop other treatments without talking to your doctor.

• 3:54:24Speaker 05

  Do more with less asthma. Ask your asthma specialist about Dupixent by name. Visit dupixent.com or call 1-844-DUPIXENT.

• 3:54:31Speaker 00

  Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds up to $200,000 right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval. 911, what's your emergency? Please help us, they're everywhere!

• 3:55:08Speaker 06

  We think they're murder warnings. 911 Nashville returns.

• 3:55:12Speaker 03

  What's a homicide detective doing here?

• 3:55:14Speaker 06

  Three bodies on the ground. With emergencies of biblical proportions. Hellsend swarms upon you and upon your people. That's one of the plagues of the Bible. And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville. Brian Phillippe joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 3:55:37Speaker 05

  Making plans with asthma can be awful. It always goes from "That sounds fun" to "In this weather, what if my asthma acts up?" I got tired of saying no, so my doctor suggested Dupixent. I'm Rachel, and I'm sponsored by Regeneron in Santa Fe to share my story with real patients like me.

• 3:55:51Speaker 01

  Dupixent, dupilumab, is an add-on prescription maintenance treatment for adults and children six years and up with moderate to severe eosinophilic or oral steroid-dependent asthma that's not controlled with current asthma medicines. Dupixent is not for sudden breathing problems.

• 3:56:02Speaker 05

  Dupixent helps people breathe better in as little as two weeks. And now, I don't even think twice about saying yes to plans more, rain or shine.

• 3:56:09Speaker 01

  Severe allergic reactions, including skin reactions, can occur. Get help right away for face, mouth, tongue, or throat swelling, wheezing, or trouble breathing. Tell your doctor right away of signs of inflamed blood vessels like rash, chest pain, worsening shortness of breath, brown or dark-colored urine, tingling or numbness in limbs. Tell your doctor of new or worsening skin symptoms, joint aches and pain, or a parasitic infection. Don't change or stop other treatments without talking to your doctor.

• 3:56:30Speaker 05

  Do more with less asthma. Ask your asthma specialist about Dupixent by name. Visit dupixent.com or call 1-844-DUPIXENT.

• 3:56:37Speaker 00

  Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds up to $200,000 right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval. 911, what's your emergency? Please help us, they're everywhere!

• 3:57:14Speaker 06

  We think they're murder warnings. 911 Nashville returns.

• 3:57:18Speaker 03

  What's a homicide detective doing here?

• 3:57:20Speaker 06

  Three bodies on the ground. With emergencies of biblical proportions. Hellsend swarms upon you and upon your people. That's one of the plagues of the Bible. And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville. Brian Phillippe joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 3:57:43Speaker 05

  Making plans with asthma can be awful. It always goes from "That sounds fun" to "In this weather, what if my asthma acts up?" I got tired of saying no, so my doctor suggested Dupixent. I'm Rachel, and I'm sponsored by Regeneron in Santa Fe to share my story with real patients like me.

• 3:57:57Speaker 01

  Dupixent, dupilumab, is an add-on prescription maintenance treatment for adults and children six years and up with moderate to severe eosinophilic or oral steroid-dependent asthma that's not controlled with current asthma medicines. Dupixent is not for sudden breathing problems.

• 3:58:09Speaker 05

  Dupixent helps people breathe better in as little as two weeks. And now, I don't even think twice about saying yes to plans more, rain or shine.

• 3:58:16Speaker 01

  Severe allergic reactions, including skin reactions, can occur. Get help right away for face, mouth, tongue, or throat swelling, wheezing, or trouble breathing. Tell your doctor right away of signs of inflamed blood vessels like rash, chest pain, worsening shortness of breath, brown or dark-colored urine, tingling or numbness in limbs. Tell your doctor of new or worsening skin symptoms, joint aches and pain, or a parasitic infection. Don't change or stop other treatments without talking to your doctor.

• 3:58:36Speaker 05

  Do more with less asthma. Ask your asthma specialist about Dupixent by name. Visit dupixent.com or call 1-844-DUPIXENT.

• 3:58:43Speaker 06

  Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds up to $200,000 right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 3:59:15Speaker 00

  911, what's your emergency?

• 3:59:18Speaker 00

  Please help us, they're everywhere!

• 3:59:20Speaker 06

  We think they're murder warnings. 911 Nashville returns.

• 3:59:25Speaker 03

  What's a homicide detective doing here?

• 3:59:27Speaker 06

  Three bodies on the ground. With emergencies of biblical proportions. Hellsend swarms upon you and upon your people. That's one of the plagues of the Bible. And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville. Brian Phillippe joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 3:59:50Speaker 05

  Making plans with asthma can be awful. It always goes from "That sounds fun" to "In this weather, what if my asthma acts up?" I got tired of saying no, so my doctor suggested Dupixent. I'm Rachel, and I'm sponsored by Regeneron in Santa Fe to share my story with real patients like me.

• 4:00:04Speaker 01

  Dupixent, dupilumab, is an add-on prescription maintenance treatment for adults and children six years and up with moderate to severe eosinophilic or oral steroid-dependent asthma that's not controlled with current asthma medicines. Dupixent is not for sudden breathing problems.

• 4:00:15Speaker 05

  Dupixent helps people breathe better in as little as two weeks. And now, I don't even think twice about saying yes to plans more, rain or shine.

• 4:00:22Speaker 01

  Severe allergic reactions, including skin reactions, can occur. Get help right away for face, mouth, tongue, or throat swelling, wheezing, or trouble breathing. Tell your doctor right away of signs of inflamed blood vessels like rash, chest pain, worsening shortness of breath, brown or dark-colored urine, tingling or numbness in limbs. Tell your doctor of new or worsening skin symptoms, joint aches and pain, or a parasitic infection. Don't change or stop other treatments without talking to your doctor.

• 4:00:43Speaker 05

  Do more with less asthma. Ask your asthma specialist about Dupixent by name. Visit dupixent.com or call 1-844-DUPIXENT.

• 4:00:50Speaker 00

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 help make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval. 911, what's your emergency?

• 4:01:23Speaker 06

  Please help us, they're everywhere! We think they're murder warnings. 911 Nashville returns.

• 4:01:30Speaker 03

  What's a homicide detective doing here?

• 4:01:32Speaker 06

  Three bodies on the ground. With emergencies of biblical proportions. Hellsend swarms upon you and upon your people. That's one of the plagues of the Bible. And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville. Brian Phillippe joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 4:01:57Speaker 05

  Making plans with asthma can be awful. It always goes from "That sounds fun" to "In this weather, what if my asthma acts up?" I got tired of saying no, so my doctor suggested Dupixent. I'm Rachel, and I'm sponsored by Regeneron in Santa Fe to share my story with real patients like me.

• 4:02:11Speaker 01

  Dupixent, dupilumab, is an add-on prescription maintenance treatment for adults and children six years and up with moderate to severe eosinophilic or oral steroid-dependent asthma that's not controlled with current asthma medicines. Dupixent is not for sudden breathing problems.

• 4:02:23Speaker 05

  Dupixent helps people breathe better in as little as two weeks. And now, I don't even think twice about saying yes to plans more, rain or shine.

• 4:02:30Speaker 01

  Severe allergic reactions, including skin reactions, can occur. Get help right away for face, mouth, tongue, or throat swelling, wheezing, or trouble breathing. Tell your doctor right away of signs of inflamed blood vessels like rash, chest pain, worsening shortness of breath, brown or dark-colored urine, tingling or numbness in limbs. Tell your doctor of new or worsening skin symptoms, joint aches and pain, or a parasitic infection. Don't change or stop other treatments without talking to your doctor.

• 4:02:50Speaker 05

  Do more with less asthma. Ask your asthma specialist about Dupixent by name. Visit dupixent.com or call 1-844-DUPIXENT.

• 4:02:57Speaker 00

  Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds up to $200,000 right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval. 911, what's your emergency?

• 4:03:32Speaker 00

  Please help us, they're everywhere!

• 4:03:34Speaker 06

  We think they're murder warnings. 911 Nashville returns.

• 4:03:39Speaker 03

  What's a homicide detective doing here?

• 4:03:41Speaker 06

  Three bodies on the ground. With emergencies of biblical proportions. Hellsend swarms upon you and upon your people. That's one of the plagues of the Bible. And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville. Brian Phillippe joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 4:04:03Speaker 05

  Making plans with asthma can be awful. It always goes from, "That sounds fun," to, "In this weather, what if my asthma acts up?" I got tired of saying no, so my doctor suggested Dupixent. I'm Rachel, and I'm sponsored by Regeneron in Santa Fe to share my story with real patients like me.

• 4:04:17Speaker 01

  Dupixent, dupilumab, is an add-on prescription maintenance treatment for adults and children six years and up with moderate to severe eosinophilic or oral steroid-dependent asthma that's not controlled with current asthma medicines. Dupixent is not for sudden breathing problems.

• 4:04:29Speaker 05

  Dupixent helps people breathe better in as little as two weeks. And now, I don't even think twice about saying yes to plans more, rain or shine.

• 4:04:35Speaker 01

  Severe allergic reactions, including skin reactions, can occur. Get help right away for face, mouth, tongue, or throat swelling, wheezing, or trouble breathing. Tell your doctor right away of signs of inflamed blood vessels like rash, chest pain, worsening shortness of breath, brown or dark-colored urine, tingling or numbness in limbs. Tell your doctor of new or worsening skin symptoms, joint aches and pain, or a parasitic infection. Don't change or stop other treatments without talking to your doctor.

• 4:04:56Speaker 05

  Do more with less asthma. Ask your asthma specialist about Dupixent by name. Visit dupixent.com or call 1-844-DUPIXENT.

• 4:05:03Speaker 00

  Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds up to $200,000 right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 4:05:35Speaker 00

  911, what's your emergency?

• 4:05:38Speaker 00

  Please help us, they're everywhere. We think they're murder hornets.

• 4:05:42Speaker 06

  911 Nashville returns.

• 4:05:45Speaker 03

  What's a homicide detective doing here?

• 4:05:46Speaker 06

  Three bodies on the ground. With emergencies of biblical proportions. Hellsend swarms upon you and upon your people. That's one of the plagues of the Bible. And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville. Brian Phillippe joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 4:06:10Speaker 05

  Making plans with asthma can be awful. It always goes from, "That sounds fun," to, "In this weather, what if my asthma acts up?" I got tired of saying no, so my doctor suggested Dupixent. I'm Rachel, and I'm sponsored by Regeneron in Santa Fe to share my story with real patients like me.

• 4:06:24Speaker 01

  Dupixent, dupilumab, is an add-on prescription maintenance treatment for adults and children six years and up with moderate to severe eosinophilic or oral steroid-dependent asthma that's not controlled with current asthma medicines. Dupixent is not for sudden breathing problems.

• 4:06:36Speaker 05

  Dupixent helps people breathe better in as little as two weeks. And now, I don't even think twice about saying yes to plans more, rain or shine.

• 4:06:42Speaker 01

  Severe allergic reactions, including skin reactions, can occur. Get help right away for face, mouth, tongue, or throat swelling, wheezing, or trouble breathing. Tell your doctor right away of signs of inflamed blood vessels like rash, chest pain, worsening shortness of breath, brown or dark-colored urine, tingling or numbness in limbs. Tell your doctor of new or worsening skin symptoms, joint aches and pain, or a parasitic infection. Don't change or stop other treatments without talking to your doctor.

• 4:07:03Speaker 05

  Do more with less asthma. Ask your asthma specialist about Dupixent by name. Visit dupixent.com or call 1-844-DUPIXENT.

• 4:07:10Speaker 06

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 4:07:39Speaker 00

  911, what's your emergency? Please help us, they're everywhere. We think they're murder hornets.

• 4:07:47Speaker 06

  911 Nashville returns.

• 4:07:49Speaker 03

  What's a homicide detective doing here?

• 4:07:51Speaker 06

  Three bodies on the ground. With emergencies of biblical proportions. Hellsend swarms upon you and upon your people. That's one of the plagues of the Bible. And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville. Brian Phillippe joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 4:08:13Speaker 05

  Making plans with asthma can be awful. It always goes from, "That sounds fun," to, "In this weather, what if my asthma acts up?" I got tired of saying no, so my doctor suggested Dupixent. I'm Rachel, and I'm sponsored by Regeneron in Santa Fe to share my story with real patients like me.

• 4:08:27Speaker 01

  Dupixent, dupilumab, is an add-on prescription maintenance treatment for adults and children six years and up with moderate to severe eosinophilic or oral steroid-dependent asthma that's not controlled with current asthma medicines. Dupixent is not for sudden breathing problems.

• 4:08:39Speaker 05

  Dupixent helps people breathe better in as little as two weeks. And now, I don't even think twice about saying yes to plans more, rain or shine.

• 4:08:46Speaker 01

  Severe allergic reactions, including skin reactions, can occur. Get help right away for face, mouth, tongue, or throat swelling, wheezing, or trouble breathing. Tell your doctor right away of signs of inflamed blood vessels like rash, chest pain, worsening shortness of breath, brown or dark-colored urine, tingling or numbness in limbs. Tell your doctor of new or worsening skin symptoms, joint aches and pain, or a parasitic infection. Don't change or stop other treatments without talking to your doctor.

• 4:09:06Speaker 05

  Do more with less asthma. Ask your asthma specialist about Dupixent by name. Visit dupixent.com or call 1-844-DUPIXENT.

• 4:09:13Speaker 06

  Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds up to $200,000 right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 4:09:45Speaker 00

  911, what's your emergency?

• 4:09:48Speaker 00

  Please help us, they're everywhere. We think they're murder hornets.

• 4:09:52Speaker 06

  911 Nashville returns.

• 4:09:55Speaker 03

  What's a homicide detective doing here?

• 4:09:56Speaker 06

  Three bodies on the ground. With emergencies of biblical proportions. Hellsend swarms upon you and upon your people. That's one of the plagues of the Bible. And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville. Brian Phillippe joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 4:10:16Speaker 06

  I felt a jackhammering pain in my jaw. Like someone sawing my bones. Barbed wire in my shoulder. Like a cattle prod in my hip.

• 4:10:25Speaker 00

  Like I put my foot in a blender. Pain is different for everyone. But where pain starts, Gernavix Suzetrajin begins. Gernavix is a non-opioid 50-milligram prescription tablet for adults with moderate to severe acute pain that reduces pain signals before they reach the brain. Before those signals tell the brain to feel? Like I punched an angry beehive. And pain reduction can finally begin. Do not take Gernavix with SIP3A inhibitors.

• 4:10:51Jack Murphy?

  Avoid use with grapefruit or liver problems, as these may increase side effects. Tell your doctor about all your medicines, if you are pregnant or breastfeeding. Gernavix may make certain medicines and birth control less effective. Side effects include itching, muscle spasms, rash, and elevated muscle enzymes. To learn more about Gernavix, ask your doctor, call 1-833-589-PAIN, or visit gernavix.com. This is Matt Rogers from Los Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang.

• 4:11:20Speaker 01

  This is Bowen Yang from Los Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang.

• 4:11:23Jack Murphy?

  Every friend group has that one person who puts their card down for brunch and sends the Venmo requests.

• 4:11:28Speaker 01

  If that's you and your Venmo balance is popping.

• 4:11:31Jack Murphy?

  You need a Venmo debit MasterCard so that you can spend your balance instantly.

• 4:11:35Speaker 01

  No transferring anything, no waiting around.

• 4:11:38Jack Murphy?

  So as soon as you get paid back for brunch, you can pay for those concert tickets you've been eyeing or put it toward your next night out.

• 4:11:43Speaker 01

  Plus, there's no monthly fee or minimum balance.

• 4:11:45Jack Murphy?

  Learn more about the Venmo debit card at venmo.com/card. Venmo balance account required to get the card. And use a balance effective November 1, 2026. The Venmo MasterCard is issued by The Bancorp Bank, N.A.

• 4:11:58Speaker 06

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.