The Best of Both Worlds

Neil deGrasse Tyson takes us where no fan has gone before: an exclusive interview with Star Trek: TNG stars LeVar Burton and Brent Spiner at San Diego Comic-Con 2012.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Welcome to StarTalk, your place in the universe where science and pop culture collide. StarTalk begins right now.

• 0:21Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Welcome to StarTalk Radio. I'm your host Neil deGrasse Tyson. I'm an astrophysicist at the American Museum of Natural History in New York. I also serve as director of the Hayden Planetarium. And I've got with me in the studio, one of my favorite co-hosts. I'm sorry, not the favorite co-host. You're in an ensemble of favorite co-hosts, Leanne Lord.

• 0:41Speaker 01

  Well, hello there. I'm in an ensemble. Fantastic.

• 0:44Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Welcome back.

• 0:44Speaker 01

  I'm so glad to be back.

• 0:46Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  It's been too long.

• 0:46Speaker 01

  It really has.

• 0:47Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Oh my gosh, we have so much more of you.

• 0:49Speaker 01

  Listen, you have my number. Just call me.

• 0:52Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, we got you on this one because I happen to have separate knowledge that there's a geek side of you that is like totally into science fiction.

• 0:59Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:00Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And earlier this year, I went to Comic Con San Diego for my very first time. I was a Comic Con virgin.

• 1:06Speaker 01

  Oh my God, my heart beats wildly. You got to go.

• 1:10Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Is it fluttering?

• 1:11Speaker 01

  It is. It really is. Is it warm in here? Oh my gosh.

• 1:14Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And so what was very cool is as I was wandering the floor, well, first I was warmed by the reception that I got just being there.

• 1:22Speaker 01

  I was about to say, you would be considered a superstar.

• 1:25Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, I didn't know because, you know, famous actors go there, right? And I'm not an actor. I, you know.

• 1:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, but yeah, they're just cashing in. They're not, they don't have any real, you know, geek street cred.

• 1:35Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, that's interesting. You say that because when people came up to me, actors I would have judged as famous would walk by and they would see them, but then they'd stay with me. And I realized that, well, actually I could like tell them stuff about the universe.

• 1:50Speaker 01

  Exactly. As the other people can pretend to tell them things if it's in a script. You actually know.

• 1:54Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  But it meant they cared about the real knowledge. And so I felt as though it was an emissary of my professional community of astrophysicists.

• 2:01Speaker 01

  An emissary of science. Is that on your business card?

• 2:04Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Representing my community. And in that way, I was re-infusing this deeply inspired and active organization that just all these people who love science and had, as it is captured in the storytelling of science fiction. So.

• 2:20Speaker 01

  I wish I could have been there.

• 2:22Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I know, it was gorgeous. And you know who I bumped into?

• 2:24Speaker 01

  Who?

• 2:25Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Oh, LeVar Burton and Brent Spiner.

• 2:28Speaker 01

  Oh my god! I'm having a Star Trek moment.

• 2:31Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Oh, what does that mean biophysically to you?

• 2:33Speaker 01

  Biophysically? I can neither confirm nor deny that certain biophysical things are happening to me at the moment.

• 2:42Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, you know, I, so for those of you, if you didn't know, okay, LeVar Burton on Star Trek.

• 2:49Speaker 01

  Geordi.

• 2:49Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Geordi La Forge, Geordi La Forge, and Brent Spiner was Lieutenant Commander Data.

• 2:54Speaker 01

  Data, love Data.

• 2:56Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You know, he's one person, I thought he should maybe be Datum, Lieutenant Commander Datum, the singular of Data, but that's another.

• 3:03Speaker 01

  Wow, I think you've hit the outer level of geekdom, sir. I didn't think that was possible.

• 3:07Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  They were in Star Trek: The Next Generation series, and they were at a booth signing autographs.

• 3:12Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 3:12Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And so I managed to nab them and get them to talk to me for StarTalk.

• 3:17Speaker 01

  Are you serious?

• 3:18Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  On the floor of Comic Con, and so...

• 3:21Speaker 01

  Did your life get any more awesome?

• 3:23Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, so I've got that interview, and that's gonna be this hour. So let's, in fact, go straight there and find out how, in fact, my lives had intersected with theirs in the past.

• 3:36Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, what a privilege to have both of you guys here. LeVar, let me start with you. What you might not have known is that in your days with Reading Rainbow, you did a program profiling the closest public school to Ground Zero from the terrorist attacks on September 11th.

• 3:53Speaker 02

  Right.

• 3:54Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And that was my daughter's school. And so...

• 3:57Speaker 02

  PS 234?

• 3:58Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  PS 234.

• 4:00Speaker 02

  Your daughter...

• 4:01Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  She was in first grade.

• 4:02Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 4:03Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  In fact, was her third day of school was September 11th.

• 4:06Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 4:07Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Uh, 2001. And so they obviously have to leave the school, they can't return to the school. The school is used as a...

• 4:13Speaker 02

  An evacuation?

• 4:14Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  An evacuation center.

• 4:15Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 4:16Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And a year later...

• 4:17Speaker 02

  We came, we came with the Reading Rainbow cameras, and the point was to really... Show our audience the progress of that community that lived right there at ground zero.

• 4:33Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That's important because a school is part of a community.

• 4:35Speaker 02

  Absolutely, and that was a large part of the message that this community was affected and, and this school was a large part of the healing that needed to be done and how the community really was able to use the school and the staff and faculty as a resource for the healing of, of trauma from that day.

• 4:59Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So I just want to publicly thank you for, for that effort.

• 5:02Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 5:02Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Because, you know, things come and go and people don't remember to remember.

• 5:06Speaker 02

  Right.

• 5:06Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And so you, you created a, a beautiful product there and we still have it.

• 5:10Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 5:10Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  If it was VHS back then.

• 5:12Speaker 02

  Right, yes, I, I believe I can get you a DVD now.

• 5:14Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  All right, and also Brent, you know, we, we have an, an intersection.

• 5:20Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 5:20Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Of some years back, I remember getting a phone call.

• 5:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 5:23Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That there was a play being produced on Broadway that featured scientists and astrophysicists in particular.

• 5:29Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 5:30Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And then you guys show up at my doorstep.

• 5:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 5:32Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You and Helen Hunt.

• 5:34Speaker 02

  Yep, and John Turturro.

• 5:35Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And John Turturro.

• 5:36Speaker 02

  And Linda Eamon, who's a fantastic actress, and Matthew Wartjes, who's a world-class director. We all came to your office.

• 5:43Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And the, the play's called Lifetime's Three.

• 5:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, Lifetime's Three, yes, Mina Rizza wrote it, who wrote God of Carnage and Art. It was an amazing play about astrophysicists.

• 5:52Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So I guess you came to me because you needed acting?

• 5:56Speaker 02

  Exactly. You know what? We needed to know what are these people like, these, uh...

• 6:02Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  These crazy astrophysicists.

• 6:04Speaker 02

  Science heads, you know, and I wanted to know how to, how to portray them effectively. And my character, by the way, was a real son of a bitch and I based him totally on you, actually, after that meeting.

• 6:15Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You never told me that.

• 6:17Speaker 02

  Yeah. No, not totally, just your personality.

• 6:25Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  No, but I went and saw the play and it was interesting because it was circumstances from three different views.

• 6:31Speaker 03

  Exactly. The premise of the play was really that, you know, they always say baseball is a game of inches. And I think life is a game of inches, really, and that's sort of what it was about, is that in any given moment, something can happen, something can be said, that will completely change the dynamic of the moment and of the rest of time after that. And so, the play was about a young guy and his wife, he was an astrophysicist, invited his boss and his wife to dinner, and they showed up one night too early. And in each of the three different vignettes, the exact same scene played out, but at some point in the scene, someone said something different and it all changed and went off in another direction.

• 7:15Speaker 03

  And you kind of realize, that could happen anywhere, anytime, that there are billions of possibilities for every single moment of life.

• 7:24Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  All different variations on a theme that...

• 7:26Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 7:26Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, yeah. And so, I was honored that you guys felt that I could contribute to your performance.

• 7:31Speaker 03

  Please.

• 7:32Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And, I mean, all three of you, I mean, you know, Helen Hunt...

• 7:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 7:35Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Uh, all there, sitting in my office at the Hayden Planetarium.

• 7:38Speaker 03

  Oh, I remember. You couldn't even listen to me because you were looking at her the whole time.

• 7:43Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  No, no. I thought I was hiding that.

• 7:46Speaker 03

  No, not at all.

• 7:48Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Apparently...

• 7:48Speaker 03

  You were transparent, as they say in science.

• 7:51Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, I feel pseudo genetically connected to the two of you, so thanks...

• 7:55Speaker 03

  You are.

• 7:56Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  For coming to StarTalk here.

• 7:57Speaker 03

  Glad to be connected to you.

• 8:16Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Welcome back to StarTalk Radio. I'm Neil deGrasse Tyson. In this show, we're listening to my interview with LeVar Burton and Brent Spiner, on the floor of Comic-Con 2012, in San Diego. Leanne Lord, you've never been to a Comic-Con?

• 8:30Speaker 01

  I have never been to a Comic-Con.

• 8:31Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  But you're a geek girl.

• 8:32Speaker 01

  I am, but I'm a broke geek girl, is how this has transpired, everybody, so if you want to send donations to get Leanne to Comic-Con... Feel free.

• 8:42Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, you know, Comic Con is not just sort of the Star, you know, maybe the Star Trek fanbase began this whole.

• 8:48Speaker 01

  Right, I mean, I've been to a Star Trek convention.

• 8:50Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Exactly, but of course, Comic Con is like the super set of all of these. So they're fans, that fans of all the superheroes, Batman, Spider-Man, X-Men, Doctor Who even, and, and, and Supernatural, this hit TV series. So what an experience it is to go there. And everybody is as crazy as you think they would be.

• 9:09Speaker 01

  Wow, way to paint that picture.

• 9:11Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Uh, but we're featuring my interview with LeVar Burton and Brent Smither. You know, they were in The Next Generation Star Trek, which was the resurrected form of the show that came out in the late eighties and early nineties. So let's pick up more with my interview with them, just because they, they agreed to do this from the floor of Comic Con. You could feel the energy in the air.

• 9:33Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I have it on good rumor, LeVar, that you and one other character in The Next Generation were the only ones in the group that were actual Star Trek fans from way back. Is that, is that a fair statement?

• 9:46Speaker 02

  I, I think that is a fair statement, and, and the other actor would, would have been Whoopi Goldberg.

• 9:50Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  It was, oh, excuse me.

• 9:51Speaker 02

  It was Whoopi. Whoopi and I both were largely influenced by Gene's vision of the future, mainly because it was a representation of a future that included people of color.

• 10:01Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Which no one else was doing.

• 10:02Speaker 02

  Well, not no one. I mean, there are a couple of instances in science fiction literature, Arthur C. Clarke, notably.

• 10:09Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, but it took him to do it, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 10:12Speaker 02

  But it was rare, it was very rare, very rare to see representations of the future that, that featured heroes who looked like us.

• 10:20Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Right.

• 10:20Speaker 02

  And for that reason, it was a very easy future to embrace.

• 10:24Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And so you became a part of that. You, you not only saw it as a future that could happen, you actually joined it.

• 10:31Speaker 02

  Right.

• 10:32Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  How many people get to do that?

• 10:33Speaker 02

  I'm telling you, I love my life.

• 10:35Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, so now the rest of these guys then, they had to like learn the stuff, learn the culture, right? Is that right, Brent? I just learned the lines, Neil.

• 10:46Speaker 03

  I still don't know what it's about, I'll be honest with you.

• 10:50Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, I guess, yeah, the actor, well, they just have to make you believe, that's all.

• 10:54Speaker 03

  Well, that's it, that's it. You have to make yourself believe, and then everybody else believes.

• 10:59Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Oh, that's all, that's okay, right. You're believable in your portrayal.

• 11:02Speaker 03

  Exactly right. You have to do it with, with absolute conviction. And, uh, once you do that, and make real choices of how to do it, then the audience will go along with you.

• 11:12Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, so now, who would win a game of chess between you and Spock? As Data?

• 11:18Speaker 03

  Well, let me think. Uh, I mean, Spock was smart, but he was no Data.

• 11:26Speaker 03

  You know, he could probably beat Picard.

• 11:28Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Picard, yeah.

• 11:32Speaker 03

  And me, certainly, but not Data.

• 11:35Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  But not Data, my god. Okay, so Data can kick some Spock butt?

• 11:39Speaker 03

  Oh, please.

• 11:40Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That'd be a cage match kinda thing, right? That's how you do that?

• 11:43Speaker 03

  You know, I'd like to see that, actually. Because, you know, he's much older than I am. I know I could take him.

• 11:49Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And so, LeVar, I mean, I, I was especially intrigued by, by your visor, I mean, everyone was. I mean, that's an extraordinary device that I would just wanna own.

• 11:57Speaker 02

  Right.

• 11:58Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You know, who, who wouldn't wanna see the whole world in every possible wavelength of light?

• 12:01Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 12:02Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I wasn't close enough to the series to know why, one year, they just took it off?

• 12:06Speaker 02

  Yes. See, I always maintained that, and I love the visor, it's a very iconic piece of Star Trek.

• 12:15Speaker 03

  Hardware.

• 12:15Speaker 02

  Hardware.

• 12:16Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Gadgets, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 12:17Speaker 02

  Exactly right. And Rick Berman always maintained that the visor was one of those ways that we telegraphed the nature of the technological sophistication of the 24th century. And I had to agree, however...

• 12:29Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Right, 'cause if it's just people walking around, it's just a play set in the future. It's not, it's not a participant in the future.

• 12:35Speaker 02

  But I always wondered, that if our technology was so damn sophisticated, why couldn't we put that technology in something a lot smaller? Than the visor.

• 12:46Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Like say the size of an eye.

• 12:48Speaker 02

  Now there's an idea.

• 12:50Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay.

• 12:50Speaker 03

  But you know, I had a similar thing. When I first met Gene Roddenberry, he said, would you mind changing your appearance? And I thought, well, he's gonna give me a couple of pair of ears or something, whatever. And he said, no, I'd like to change the color of your skin. I'd like you to be a different hue. And I thought, well, alright, why not? And I said, but you know, don't you think in the future that they would be able to devise skin that would look like skin? And he says, what makes you think what you have isn't better than skin? That was Gene Roddenberry. So there was no way to argue with it.

• 13:21Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Right, right. There you go. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So what I wondered was, if you could get one of those visors, but put it as the window on the deck.

• 13:30Speaker 02

  Right.

• 13:30Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Right? And you just have a dial, just dial it up.

• 13:33Speaker 02

  The lens through which we all see.

• 13:34Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  We all see, so it's not just you.

• 13:36Speaker 02

  Right.

• 13:36Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Because telescopes are kinda like that.

• 13:38Speaker 02

  They are.

• 13:39Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Look about it. We, you know, we get all our data from all the bandwidth.

• 13:42Speaker 02

  Right. That's right. That's right. You know what? It's interesting, and not many people know this. And I wonder if you remember, there were sides that Gene wrote for the audition process of Next Gen. And there was a scene between Geordi and Data, where they discussed, and they were just meeting for the first time, and they discussed how Data's brain and Geordi's eyes saw the world from a similar perspective. They saw through to the truth of things. And so they decided to form a team and call themselves...

• 14:17Speaker 03

  What were we, the, uh, the?

• 14:18Speaker 02

  The perceivers. The perceivers.

• 14:20Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  This is an early concept.

• 14:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was the audition scenes. It was the audition scenes. And the perceivers never made it into the pilot, but the relationship between Geordi and Data absolutely did.

• 14:31Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, because then that gives me a place to come through into the show to feel like I'm connected to the reality of the real universe. I mean, not to overstretch a metaphor, but today, there's so much non-viewing the truth, you know, in politics, in the world, and and there you guys were, just seeing it as it is, laid bare, in fact. Laid bare in the facts, laid bare in its appearance.

• 14:56Speaker 02

  Right.

• 14:57Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And so, when I think of the first series, setting a watermark for...

• 15:03Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Just exploring culture, but in a new kinda way. Where you can get closer to it without having your guards up.

• 15:09Speaker 02

  Right.

• 15:10Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Right.

• 15:10Speaker 02

  Getting closer through a lens of the future.

• 15:13Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yes.

• 15:13Speaker 02

  Right?

• 15:13Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yes.

• 15:14Speaker 03

  You know Neil, there are many things I admire about you and always have an enormous respect for you.

• 15:18Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, thank you! My gosh!

• 15:20Speaker 03

  But now, seeing that you have Starfleet sideburns.

• 15:23Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Oh, this?

• 15:24Speaker 03

  Makes me even more respectful of you.

• 15:26Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Very few people notice this, thank you! They come to a point.

• 15:28Speaker 03

  Excellent, man.

• 15:29Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  It's my homage. It's my homage.

• 15:32Speaker 03

  When I see that, I know. We are starting right here on Earth right now.

• 15:36Speaker 02

  It begins with you, Neil.

• 15:37Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 15:38Speaker 02

  It begins with you.

• 15:39Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  But I can't act!

• 15:40Speaker 02

  It begins with you.

• 15:41Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I can't act! I can't!

• 15:42Speaker 02

  It is the authentic you, I think, that is really...

• 15:45Speaker 03

  I can teach you.

• 15:47Speaker 02

  He's taught many porn stars.

• 15:49Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 15:49Speaker 02

  And so you'd be in excellent company.

• 15:51Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, so if the acting moment arises, I'm gonna call on the two of you.

• 15:55Speaker 03

  Please.

• 15:55Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And I'm gonna say, "Give me some, because I'll help you be a..."

• 15:57Speaker 03

  You've informed my characters before.

• 15:59Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I'll help you, I'll help, I'll hook you up.

• 16:00Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 16:01Speaker 02

  I'm gonna call on you. I wanna come to the Hayden Planetarium and bring my Reading Rainbow cameras and I would like to sit down with you.

• 16:07Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  My gosh! I will so...

• 16:09Speaker 02

  And share, and share you with the Reading Rainbow audience.

• 16:12Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You will so be royalty.

• 16:13Speaker 02

  I'd love that.

• 16:14Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  But you gotta know somebody. To get...

• 16:17Speaker 02

  Brent, can you hook me up?

• 16:18Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I probably could, yeah. I'll give him a call.

• 16:20Speaker 02

  Alright.

• 16:22Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Cut, Brent! Oh my gosh, you guys. You guys are fun. So tell me about science, growing up. With you, where'd you grow up?

• 16:30Speaker 02

  Sacramento, California.

• 16:31Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Really? Okay, California boy.

• 16:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, California.

• 16:32Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And did science mean anything to you as a kid?

• 16:34Speaker 02

  Um, science fiction meant a lot. Science, you know, outside of...

• 16:39Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Just a regular student in science?

• 16:41Speaker 02

  Chemistry, had a chemistry set.

• 16:43Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah? Did you burn anything up?

• 16:44Speaker 02

  Uh, not so's I could actually be held legally accountable.

• 16:52Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, your chemistry set came with a legal document at the end?

• 16:55Speaker 02

  There was a disclaimer.

• 16:56Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  How to absolve guilt?

• 16:57Speaker 02

  There was a disclaimer, absolutely. Made stink bombs in high school.

• 17:00Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That's fun.

• 17:01Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 17:01Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So were you a nerd kid?

• 17:03Speaker 02

  I'd have always been.

• 17:04Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay.

• 17:05Speaker 02

  A geek, always. I mean, I didn't have a pocket protector. But some of my best friends do.

• 17:12Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That you admit to, yeah. And you, do you have any science in your history?

• 17:15Speaker 03

  Well, you know, I'm from Houston, Texas.

• 17:17Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Oh, so you know space?

• 17:18Speaker 03

  Well, I know space from, I had a TV and we used to watch all the space shots. Being in Houston and having the space program move there in my lifetime was unbelievably exciting. But my relationship to science, we lived in a very hot climate, you know, in Houston and basically my total association was using a magnifying glass to torture doodle bugs, you know?

• 17:41Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So you had the sun and you exploited its presence?

• 17:43Speaker 03

  Exactly. I learned so much about solar energy from that experience.

• 17:49Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I mean, I confess that I got a lot of mileage out of my magnifying glasses.

• 17:53Speaker 03

  Definitely.

• 17:54Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  They're completely useful.

• 17:55Speaker 03

  Oh, they are magic.

• 17:56Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, anything else that, did you collect rocks or anything?

• 18:00Speaker 03

  Uh, you know, I didn't really collect, you know, unlike LeVar, I was actually very cool as a young person.

• 18:06Speaker 02

  So, collecting rocks was not...

• 18:08Speaker 03

  I didn't really do that. I collected chicks.

• 18:31Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Welcome back to StarTalk Radio. I'm your host, Neil deGrasse Tyson. In this show, we're listening to my interview with Star Trek actors LeVar Burton and Brent Spiner from the floor of Comic-Con 2012 San Diego. In this next clip, we're gonna learn about the roles that they've taken on far away from the Star Trek universe. So, I hail from New York where, you know, New Yorkers care about their Broadway. You guys thinking of doing any Broadway anytime soon?

• 18:57Speaker 03

  You know what? I'm dying to do another Broadway show.

• 18:59Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Just to reconnect with some...

• 19:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, and I love doing it. I love being on stage and having a live audience and, you know, there's a community in New York that doesn't exist in the movie business, but it is in the theater. And if you're in a play and you go after the show to Joe Allen's or whatever and you see all the other actors from all the other shows, everybody's like, "Hey, how you doing? What are you doing? I'm coming to see your show." And it's a real community.

• 19:23Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And you ever thought about it?

• 19:24Speaker 02

  Oh, I used to think about nothing else. I mean, when I got the job in Roots, I was a sophomore at USC studying theater.

• 19:31Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I didn't even mention, we didn't even talk about Roots yet. Oh my gosh!

• 19:34Speaker 03

  What's Roots?

• 19:37Speaker 03

  Nah, we know what Roots is.

• 19:43Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Man, Roots, my gosh!

• 19:44Speaker 02

  Well, and here's the connection. That scene that happened every time with a new child. The father taking the child, presenting it, uplifting the child to the heavens and saying, "Behold..."

• 19:59Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That became iconic.

• 20:00Speaker 02

  "...the only thing greater than yourself."

• 20:02Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  When my daughter was born, I made the same gesture.

• 20:05Speaker 02

  As did I.

• 20:06Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I got a photo of it too.

• 20:07Speaker 02

  There you go.

• 20:07Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And she was like five pounds, so it's like, I got large hands, just there it was. Held it up. You know, how could you not, right? And that was powerful.

• 20:16Speaker 02

  That's right. My initial desire was to graduate with a Bachelor of Fine Arts degree in drama from USC, move to New York and hustle my way out of the Broadway stage. Ben Vereen was my idol.

• 20:27Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I saw him in the original Jesus Christ Superstar.

• 20:30Speaker 02

  Really?

• 20:30Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, oh yeah. You say that like, "I didn't know you were that old." It's the way you said that.

• 20:36Speaker 02

  Was I that transparent? Science, science, science.

• 20:43Speaker 03

  You know, it's amazing, the connection between science fiction and science. It's a really fine line. It's almost nonexistent at this point. I just did a thing for, you know the X Prize?

• 20:55Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Oh yeah, of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And there's many of them now. I mean, it used to be just who can send up a ship and back. Now can you go to the moon? And they also added fields. So they're biology X Prizes now.

• 21:05Speaker 03

  They've got a book of all of the things they want to accomplish. But the thing that I participated in was, they're offering a prize now to anybody who can come up with a medical tricorder that will scan the body and...

• 21:18Speaker 02

  And diagnose.

• 21:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, 13 different diagnoses and be affordable to the consumer. And they've got three years to come up with it. Whoever can do it, $10 million. And they're pretty sure someone's gonna do it.

• 21:31Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You know, I worry that if the world ever loses science fiction, that dreams- They lose innovation.

• 21:37Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 21:37Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, you lose-

• 21:38Speaker 02

  Without question, the link between science fiction literature, our imaginations, and our ability to manifest in this realm is inextricable. It is our imaginations that produce everything that we have accomplished.

• 21:52Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  It's not only imagination, you gotta see something that you wanna have.

• 21:55Speaker 02

  That's right, that's right.

• 21:56Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Right, right, because their futures, they're dystopic futures, of course.

• 21:59Speaker 02

  Indeed, you're right, absolutely right.

• 22:00Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  But it's gotta be so tasty.

• 22:01Speaker 03

  Oh, I was trying to talk to these guys at X Prize. I said, "Next time, you've gotta go for the transporter." Because doesn't everybody wanna go from one place to another in a blink of an eye? And they said, "Well, we're working on it."

• 22:13Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You know, that's not tomorrow, right, right?

• 22:15Speaker 03

  No, it's not tomorrow. They said 2020 they'll have it. But the fact is, you know, in 1865, when Jules Verne wrote Trip to the Moon-

• 22:23Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, From Earth to the Moon, yeah.

• 22:24Speaker 03

  From Earth to the Moon. The idea of going to the moon was inconceivable. The idea of a rocket was inconceivable. And yet, we did it. Not only did we do it, we went there and we brought them back.

• 22:35Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Within a hundred years, right, essentially, right. So I have to ask, was there a particular story theme that impressed either of you that you were in?

• 22:43Speaker 03

  Well, I kinda think the most significant one to me was an episode called Measure of a Man, in which my character was on trial, basically to decide whether or not he was sentient, whether he was a sentient being-

• 22:57Speaker 02

  One of the best acknowledged, best episodes in the seven-year run of Next Gen.

• 23:01Speaker 03

  And whether, if he was not sentient, were we creating a race of slaves? A different kind of race of slaves? Or did he have his own right to his own existence? And it's a fascinating episode.

• 23:14Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  How about you?

• 23:15Speaker 02

  Well, for me, Neil, it's probably not a single episode, but the idea that Gene infused Star Trek with, there's an acronym, IDIC, Infinite Diversity and Infinite Combination, and-

• 23:29Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That's new to me.

• 23:30Speaker 02

  Ah, it's a core tenet of the Star Trek philosophy.

• 23:36Speaker 02

  Infinite diversity and infinite combination and that we have respect for all of the diversity that life presents throughout creation.

• 23:46Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And Star Trek diversity is far greater than the diversity of what we find here on Earth. So what a model that would serve us.

• 23:54Speaker 02

  Absolutely, absolutely.

• 23:55Speaker 03

  That we hopefully have reached a time where we celebrate the differences in people instead of letting them separate us.

• 24:01Speaker 02

  And what I love about Star Trek is if you reverse engineer that idea, then it has to begin here on Earth before we can get out there in the heavens.

• 24:16Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  What concerns me is people say, well, let's have a new rules where we're all friendly in space. And I'm thinking, well, if that succeeds, why couldn't you do that down here?

• 24:24Speaker 02

  We would have to.

• 24:25Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Otherwise, I got no confidence.

• 24:26Speaker 02

  We would have to do it here before we get out there.

• 24:29Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Just as an existence proof that we can even capable of.

• 24:32Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 24:33Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Welcome back to Star Trek Radio. I'm Neil deGrasse Tyson and I've got with me Leighann Moore.

• 24:57Speaker 01

  Hey.

• 24:58Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And you're tweeting at Leighann Moore, aren't you?

• 25:00Speaker 01

  Yes, I am.

• 25:01Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  But she's L-E-I-G-H-A-N-N.

• 25:03Speaker 01

  Yes, my parents got creative.

• 25:05Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  They got creative. All right, well, I follow you.

• 25:08Speaker 01

  Thank you, and I follow you.

• 25:09Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I need the occasional laugh in my day.

• 25:11Speaker 01

  Just the occasional.

• 25:12Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  But that's not why I have you. I got you on the show because you're a Star Trek geeked today.

• 25:16Speaker 01

  I am a Star Trek geek and loving it unabashed.

• 25:18Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  A geek tricks.

• 25:19Speaker 01

  Ooh, I'm gonna put that on a T-shirt.

• 25:23Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So in this show, as you know, we're featuring my interview with LeVar Burton and Brent Spiner from Star Trek: Next Generation.

• 25:29Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 25:30Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I ran into them at Comic Con 2012. That was my first ever Comic Con.

• 25:33Speaker 01

  Stop bragging.

• 25:34Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I'm sorry. And it was in San Diego. And we learned in the previous segment, of course, anyone listening knows, that so much science fiction, especially that of Star Trek, influenced technologies.

• 25:45Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 25:46Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That are with us today.

• 25:47Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 25:48Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  For me, the favorite one was the flip phone, which

• 25:49Speaker 01

  The Motorola flip phone.

• 25:51Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Which, of course, was, you know that was inspired by

• 25:54Speaker 01

  Absolutely, that was the Communicator.

• 25:57Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  The communicator and but now it's like if you've got a flip phone, it's like, what's wrong with you?

• 26:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:03Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  We're past that already.

• 26:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's special needs right there.

• 26:05Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Especially.

• 26:08Speaker 01

  Give up the flip phone, y'all. Move on, keep it moving, keep it moving.

• 26:11Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  MoveOn.org.

• 26:12Speaker 01

  MoveOn.org.

• 26:14Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And so I've often said that technology and our inspiration for the future can be fueled by the space program itself.

• 26:24Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 26:24Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And Brent Spiner and LeVar Burton have had intersections with NASA that reflect some of this. In fact, they've they've had paths that cross with NASA astronauts. So have you met any astronauts?

• 26:37Speaker 01

  I I have not met any astronauts, but I'm open.

• 26:40Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You gotta get out.

• 26:40Speaker 01

  I need to go to Comic Con is what I need to do.

• 26:43Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Get out more.

• 26:44Speaker 01

  I do, well, yes.

• 26:45Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So let's let's find out. Let's find out how Brent Spiner's and LeVar Burton's lives intersected NASA.

• 26:54Speaker 03

  Gosh, we had an amazing experience. We went to Washington and the cast of Star Trek was invited for the 30th anniversary of Alan Shepard's first space flight. So there we all were along with.

• 27:07Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  This would be 1991.

• 27:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 27:09Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, it would have been, yeah.

• 27:10Speaker 03

  Exactly, and we were there.

• 27:11Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You proud of me for knowing my name?

• 27:12Speaker 03

  That's fantastic, man. You did the math.

• 27:14Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Am I just awesome?

• 27:15Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 27:18Speaker 03

  But we were there with with all the Mercury astronauts. I mean, all of them. All of them, with the exception, of course, of Gus Grissom. Right. But his wife was there. That's right. And it was crazy. They were treating us like we were heroes and they, of course, were the real heroes. We were the pretend heroes and it was exciting.

• 27:35Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, that's, you know, of course, here at Comic Con.

• 27:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 27:40Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  The actor is the person, right?

• 27:41Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 27:42Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I mean, it's and I used to think that was creepy, but then I thought you're the closest they have to the real thing. If you do a really good job as an actor. They're living a fantasy. That's what they're doing.

• 27:55Speaker 03

  Well, it's sort of like Joseph Campbell's stuff, you know, it's uh...

• 27:59Speaker 02

  The power of myth and the hero's journey.

• 28:01Speaker 03

  Right, exactly. And that's, that's really what it is.

• 28:04Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  The power to wanna believe.

• 28:05Speaker 02

  Absolutely. Absolutely. And Gene really tapped into that in terms of the whole universe and the mythology that he created in Star Trek. And the idea that there would come a time in the evolution of humanity where we would have resolved all issues of race and class and economy, right?

• 28:25Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Right, right. We had the replicator, I guess. And so, so the scarcity of resources was a non...

• 28:30Speaker 02

  Does not exist.

• 28:31Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And it's amazing what that just takes out of the equation.

• 28:33Speaker 02

  That's right. And that subsequent to that point in our evolution, we would really pool our resources planetarily and go exploring.

• 28:43Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, so the message here, I mean, it's deeper than I think most people embrace. They may know it, but they don't think it, that science and technology might be our only path that allows us to reach a future.

• 28:55Speaker 02

  Well, I think it is.

• 28:56Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Of peace and harmony.

• 28:57Speaker 03

  That's, that's transcendence, really.

• 28:59Speaker 02

  That is it. That is it.

• 29:00Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, but how many actors get to say that they're in a, in a series that taps those, the...

• 29:06Speaker 03

  You know what? We were just lucky to fall into it. It was a gift. It really was. It was not a plan.

• 29:12Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Did you think it was just a short revival and it would get forgotten again?

• 29:16Speaker 03

  I thought we were gonna do one year, because it was pre-sold for one year. And I thought, that's it. It'll be one year and...

• 29:21Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Because it was canceled originally, right? People forget.

• 29:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, the original, after seventy-two episodes.

• 29:25Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, yeah. The stuff got canceled. And so, it's a little audacious to, to say, "I can come back again."

• 29:32Speaker 02

  We can do better than that.

• 29:33Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 29:33Speaker 03

  But it really caught fire, you know? And when we were on the air, I think we were the only sci-fi that was on the air at that point. Now, it's all sci-fi and fantasy and it's everywhere.

• 29:44Speaker 02

  It's all over the airways, yeah.

• 29:44Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And of course, uh, New York City got the Enterprise.

• 29:47Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 29:47Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Uh, space shuttle.

• 29:48Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 29:48Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I was there when it came at Kennedy. So, so, you know, it's on, it's piggybacked on the 747. So, I'm at JFK.

• 29:54Speaker 02

  Right.

• 29:54Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And it comes in and it just did a low pass and then took off again. It was just showing off.

• 29:58Speaker 02

  Yeah. No, no, no. I watched, I watched that on TV.

• 30:01Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Oh, yeah.

• 30:02Speaker 02

  I, I watched it as it did that flyby.

• 30:03Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  My heart leapt. I mean, it was...

• 30:05Speaker 03

  Fantastic, yeah.

• 30:07Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  It was, and that's the culture feeling the future through the, the myth.

• 30:11Speaker 02

  Through, yes, that's right.

• 30:12Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 30:31Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Welcome back to StarTalk Radio. I'm your host Neil deGrasse Tyson. In this show, we've been listening to my interview with LeVar Burton and Brent Spiner from Star Trek: The Next Generation, right from the floor of Comic-Con 2012, San Diego. In this final segment, we'll hear about what's been keeping them busy these days, proving that, of course, after all, there is life after Star Trek.

• 30:55Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So what projects are you doing now?

• 30:57Speaker 03

  Well, I've got a web series I'm doing called Fresh Hell. It's sort of...

• 31:01Speaker 02

  You know what? Let me tell you about Fresh Hell, because my friend is much too modest to do it justice. Well, actually, he's not, but I'm tired of hearing him talk.

• 31:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, I appreciate that.

• 31:14Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Honesty between longtime friends, yeah?

• 31:16Speaker 02

  Fresh Hell is Brent's web series, and I have said for a long time that very few people use social media and understand new technology and its power the way that Brent does. And it is some of the funniest stuff you will ever find on the internet. FreshHellSeries.com.

• 31:34Speaker 03

  That's it.

• 31:35Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Oh, okay.

• 31:36Speaker 03

  And I have to say that of all of the episodes, probably the funniest one we've done is one with LeVar.

• 31:41Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And what happened to that?

• 31:43Speaker 03

  Well, basically, the basic premise is, I've done something horrible that we call the incident. And we don't say what it is, but it has ruined my life, my career, and I have lost everything. All my money, all my friends, everything. And I'm trying desperately to get myself back to where I once belonged. And we call this, by the way, a cit-trag, because it's both...

• 32:07Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Sitcom, cit-trag.

• 32:09Speaker 03

  Well, it's heartbreaking underneath it. There is a subtext that really is sort of heartbreaking. But in this one particular episode, I go to LeVar to borrow some money because I've got this idea about teaching a class of porno actors how to act. And LeVar is the person who's gonna give me some dough.

• 32:27Speaker 02

  The old friend who gets hit up yet again.

• 32:29Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 32:29Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  For an investment.

• 32:30Speaker 02

  For a loan.

• 32:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 32:32Speaker 02

  And at some point in almost every episode, someone has reason to say...

• 32:39Speaker 03

  At least I'm not Brent Spiner.

• 32:42Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Then you know you've succeeded.

• 32:43Speaker 03

  Exactly. But you know what, honestly?

• 32:45Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  It makes someone's life feel good, right?

• 32:47Speaker 03

  That's what it is. And it really is about, and everyone goes through this, there's another incident that we don't talk about, that's an even bigger incident, which is that I made the mistake of getting older. So I've been dismissed from this fraternity that I've always wanted to be a part of. And it's not just about show business, or it could be anyone in any field. A lot of people are going through this right now, and that's the trash part of it, you know?

• 33:16Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So what you formalized is what was happening naturally in the press. We all get some kind of psychological pleasure that bad things were happening to an actress or a singer or performer.

• 33:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 33:28Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Who was it that cracks her car up, or is shoplifting?

• 33:30Speaker 03

  Lindsay Lohan.

• 33:31Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Lindsay Lohan. Why does that sell unless you're gonna say, "Well, I'm better than them in this way."

• 33:36Speaker 03

  Well, it's-

• 33:37Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Even though I don't have their money.

• 33:38Speaker 03

  It's true, and it's kinda, there is a sad reality that we love to put people on pedestals, but we love even better to knock 'em off.

• 33:44Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, that's weird, and you know, I don't even know what to make of that.

• 33:47Speaker 03

  Well, it's that schadenfreude thing, right? I don't know what that's about, but it's a part of the human-

• 33:52Speaker 02

  It's a very human thing.

• 33:53Speaker 03

  Thing.

• 33:54Speaker 02

  Very human.

• 33:55Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And how about you? What project you got?

• 33:57Speaker 02

  Just released the Reading Rainbow app.

• 33:58Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay.

• 33:59Speaker 02

  A bottom-up reinvention of the television series as an interactive journey of exploration and discovery for kids on tablet computers.

• 34:07Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And the target age is what?

• 34:08Speaker 02

  The three to nine-year-old, that child who's in the process of making a decision as to whether he or she will be a reader for life or not.

• 34:16Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So what got you going there? I mean, that's, of course, noble, but not everybody does that.

• 34:21Speaker 02

  Well, I grew up in a house where reading was like breathing, you know? My mother was an English teacher, and you pretty much either read books in Irma's household or you got hit with them.

• 34:30Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You got slapped.

• 34:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. You were gonna have an encounter with the written word.

• 34:35Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  A relationship with the book.

• 34:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:37Speaker 03

  It's a really beautiful app, though. I mean, really, they did a smashing job with it. It's fantastic.

• 34:43Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So if we get it as popular as Angry Birds...

• 34:45Speaker 02

  See, I love Angry Birds.

• 34:46Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Actually, Angry Birds uses real physics.

• 34:48Speaker 02

  It does.

• 34:49Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah.

• 34:49Speaker 02

  And I genuinely believe...

• 34:50Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And now we've got Angry Birds in space.

• 34:51Speaker 02

  Angry Birds in space.

• 34:52Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 34:52Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm. I believe that all of this media that we are so fond of consuming, no matter what it is, it is all educational. The question is, what are we teaching?

• 35:04Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Mmm.

• 35:06Speaker 02

  And so, we know that our kids are as attracted to these tablet devices as we are, and that they are as engaged by them as we are, and that genie's out of the bottle. We're not going to be able to put that genie back in. And so, my goal is to be a part of a balanced diet of what our kids consume.

• 35:28Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Beautifully worded. Can't even touch that. Let that one get in.

• 35:33Speaker 03

  Let me rephrase that.

• 35:40Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You gotta love Star Trek.

• 35:42Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 35:42Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  What an influence it's had on the country, on the world, on people's dreams for the future. You know, when I see Comic-Con, I see that as the continuation, the spreading and the continuation of the dream of geeks, I guess.

• 35:55Speaker 01

  The dream of geeks. What do geeks dream of, out here in nerd nation?

• 36:01Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I'm just saying. I think that if they took over the world tomorrow, that would not be a bad thing. It'd be a much cooler place to live, I think.

• 36:09Speaker 01

  Who's to say we have not already?

• 36:10Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Oh, you speaking from the geekdom yourself.

• 36:13Speaker 01

  I am. I'm highly positioned in the ranks, as I am.

• 36:16Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You've been listening to StarTalk Radio. Find us on the web at StarTalkRadio.net, and we also tweet StarTalkRadio. I tweet at Neil Tyson if you want to check that out. We're brought to you in part by a grant from the National Science Foundation. And let me give you a tweet of the week, a simple one. "And the geek shall inherit the earth." As always, this is Neil deGrasse Tyson saying, "Keep looking up," signing off for StarTalk.