The Meta Compute Debate | Diet TBPN

Diet TBPN delivers the best of today’s TBPN episode in 30 minutes. TBPN is a live tech talk show hosted by John Coogan and Jordi Hays, streaming weekdays 11–2 PT on X and YouTube, with each episode posted to podcast platforms right after. Described by The New York Times as “Silicon Valley’s newest obsession,” the show has recently featured Mark Zuckerberg, Sam Altman, Mark Cuban, and Satya Nadella. TBPN is made possible by: Ramp - https://ramp.com Public - https://public.com Cisco - https://www.cisco.com Console - https://www.console.com CrowdStrike - https://www.crowdstrike.com Figma - https://www.figma.com MongoDB - https://www.mongodb.com NYSE - https://www.nyse.com Railway - https://railway.com Shopify - https://www.shopify.com/ Follow TBPN: https://TBPN.com https://x.com/tbpn https://open.spotify.com/show/2L6WMqY3GUPCGBD0dX6p00?si=674252d53acf4231 https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/technology-brothers/id1772360235 https://www.youtube.com/@TBPNLive

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02John Coogan?

  Meta is selling compute. They're getting out of the computing business. They said, "We don't need computers anymore to do what we need to do. We don't need them. We're going to be selling them." Meta Platforms is developing plans for a cloud infrastructure business to sell access to AI computing power and models, competing with industry leaders like AWS and GCP. The company is considering selling access to various AI models hosted on its existing AI infrastructure, as well as raw computing capacity. As part of its Meta Compute Initiative, Meta plans to generate revenue from excessive computing power. Could help return its investment in AI infrastructure, which includes hundreds of billions of dollars spent on data centers and expensive chips.

• 0:43John Coogan?

  And so, lots of reactions to this. The NeoCloud market is selling off. Oddly enough, Meta has a bunch of NeoCloud contracts. Some of those companies are selling off because now they're a buyer and also a competitor. Lots of different takes about Meta finding its footing, finding something that justifies the massive capex.

• 1:03Jordi Hays?

  It's deeply confusing, John.

• 1:05John Coogan?

  Yeah? Is it?

• 1:06Jordi Hays?

  I mean, the whole thing. The whole thing.

• 1:08John Coogan?

  What's confusing about it?

• 1:09Jordi Hays?

  I think that, I think it is practical, what they're doing.

• 1:13John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:14Jordi Hays?

  But as somebody that, that, you know, I would say overall has been a big cheerleader for Meta, I think it's truly the best, in my view. It is a perfect business. It doesn't give you a lot of confidence in like the strategy overall. If they're signing these NeoCloud deals worth tens of billions of dollars, they're spending hundreds of billions of dollars. And yeah, they can make the argument that these type of, like doing any type of NeoCloud deals themselves is just good business. It's just like, it's just the best way to get ROI today.

• 1:50John Coogan?

  Yep.

• 1:50Jordi Hays?

  It doesn't give you a lot of confidence that there's near-term products on the horizon for Meta that are going to be able to utilize that capacity themselves, which is clearly been their strategy. Mark and the team have never, have never said, "We want to be in the..."

• 2:08Jordi Hays?

  Cloud business, they've talked about

• 2:10John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:11Jordi Hays?

  They've talked about the possibility of it.

• 2:13John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:13Jordi Hays?

  But the stated goal of MSL is personal superintelligence. We don't know what

• 2:18John Coogan?

  I was a fan of, and I think you were a huge fan of. You were like a menace on your phone, going around your social networks. That's my biggest bull case for all of this. Like, it's very, there are so many different applications that I can imagine being a daily driver of in the meta family of apps. Oddly, none of that has really been even tried, in my opinion. It feels like a little bit

• 2:40Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, all we've really seen so far is Muse Spark.

• 2:46John Coogan?

  Good on benchmarks, like decent, you know?

• 2:48Jordi Hays?

  Again, not anything that, that anyone should really get that excited about.

• 2:53John Coogan?

  As a, you know, as an API provider.

• 2:56Jordi Hays?

  Exactly, exactly.

• 2:57John Coogan?

  They did announce that they were going to release it via an API. I don't think they have, they might still.

• 3:01Jordi Hays?

  It's a good model, sir, but I don't think it will have a lot of demand.

• 3:05John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:06Jordi Hays?

  And then we've seen Meta Vibes, which was a mid-journey

• 3:08John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:09Jordi Hays?

  wrapper.

• 3:09John Coogan?

  Even if Muse Spark is not on the super giga frontier, can it be good enough to get some work done inside Meta family of apps? Like, it should, I would imagine, yes, but they just haven't found that, that killer feature. There are plenty of applications that are AI-powered. There are plenty of models out there that have found their footing without being on the, you know, superintelligence path or on that particular curve.

• 3:36Jordi Hays?

  And it's interesting, because yesterday we were talking about the story where Google had been telling Meta, like, hey, we don't have the capacity

• 3:41John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:42Jordi Hays?

  for you. And here Meta is with, with plenty of capacity themselves. I don't think we can read too much into this, because it's just one article from Bloomberg. I think it will matter a lot who the potential buyers of compute are going to be.

• 3:58John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:58Jordi Hays?

  If it's, there's a number of companies that I think the market would get excited about.

• 4:02John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 4:03Jordi Hays?

  But if they're actually just going and trying to compete as.

• 4:06John Coogan?

  Yeah, it's weird that it came as a leak about around like a plan to sell compute as opposed to just what SpaceX did where it was just like boom, huge contract with Anthropic. Lots of excitement going into the IPO like that was such a perfectly massaged story as SpaceX entered the public markets. That would have been great if they just said, hey, we have a frontier lab that's paying us a billion dollars a month now. And like it's going to show up in earnings next quarter, like get ready, but the stock market loved it like the stock is way up. And I don't know if it's way up because they see it as a huge growth area for Meta now. Is it that crazy?

• 4:42Jordi Hays?

  Well, I think it's up because people have been wondering like where's the ROI going to come from for this hundreds of billions of dollars to spend?

• 4:49John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 4:49Jordi Hays?

  And up until now, there's been no obvious place that it's going to come from, right?

• 4:54John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 4:54Jordi Hays?

  They had the Manus deal, that's being unwound.

• 4:56John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 4:57Jordi Hays?

  They have the the deal with, you know, mid journey and vibes, that's, you know, unclear.

• 5:02John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 5:03Jordi Hays?

  There's, it seems very obvious that they're going to be able to integrate AI into their glasses over time.

• 5:08John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 5:08Jordi Hays?

  But the glasses that have product market fit today are more of just like the.

• 5:14Jordi Hays?

  I I think the product market fit is really with the camera, not the intelligence combined with a pair of glasses.

• 5:21John Coogan?

  Yeah, which is also surprising that we haven't seen a diffusion model and image model. Instagram in general is pretty, it's remarkably slop free, at least my feed is, I don't see a lot of viral slop images. But you can imagine AI powered features, background replacement, a lot of that stuff being AI enhanced. And people receiving that very positively and enjoying that I was using Adobe products recently and like in Photoshop, they have an integration with Gemini, Nano Banana. And you can plug in all the different image models and you can actually use the tools in very interesting ways. I keep going back to that idea of like the personal super intelligence, what do I actually want?

• 5:59John Coogan?

  I ran into an interesting conundrum the other day because I've been sort of disappointed by the lack of AI in Meta apps, which I know I'm like the only person that feels that way. Because the general vibe on Instagram is like extremely anti AI. Meta does have granular data about every reel I post, some do better than others. I went to Meta AI in the Instagram app and I asked, what should I do more of in order to grow my account? This would be useful, sort of a high-powered analytics tools, personalized analytics tools for what I do. But I got this very generic LLM response. We might be able to pull it up. I think it's in, I shared the image in the timeline. Let me see if I can pull it up here.

• 6:44John Coogan?

  It said, Buffer recommends focusing on sustainable, organic growth instead of quick hacks like follow trains. Post reels consistently since they get 36% more reach than carousels and 125.

• 6:57Jordi Hays?

  It's so funny to be referencing, it's referencing a blog post from a social media management SaaS company.

• 7:01John Coogan?

  Exactly.

• 7:02Jordi Hays?

  Like, you would think that if you had, I mean, and clearly they're not focused on this use case.

• 7:06John Coogan?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 7:07Jordi Hays?

  But you would think that there would be an opportunity to give creators personal and super intelligence to just be better at creating on the platform.

• 7:15John Coogan?

  Yeah, it said, use Instagram analytics to see which content converts viewers into followers and double down on it. Like, that's what I asked you to do. I said, what can I do better to get my following? Like, you have all the data about what does well. I don't want to go and look at this reel got 5,000 views, that one got 50,000 views. What's the difference here? I want you to do that. Collaborate with micro creators in your niche for authentic cross-promotion rather than paid ads. Engage with responding to comments and testing out traffic. It also said to optimize your profile with clear keywords in the bio and maintain a consistent visual brand. It's like, a lot of that I'm already doing, a lot of that is old. And so, I'm just like, sort of disappointed that, say what you want about Muse Spark and

• 7:57John Coogan?

  its benchmarks or whatever, like, clearly, if they wire that model up to the user's data, they should be able to integrate appropriately and they just haven't productized it properly. And maybe if I get Manus and I get an API integration, like, I could get there. But like, it should just live in the Instagram search box, I imagine, since they already have an LLM there, it's just a legacy one. On the product side, it's just not, it's just not enough to get to, okay, there's crazy demand for AI within the app.

• 8:25Jordi Hays?

  Did you ask it if the shareholder value is three eggs, is the goose value?

• 8:30John Coogan?

  That just sounds like a jumble of words. Is that even a correct sentence? I don't know. Sounds correct to me. I mean, honestly, like, the best place, it's very ironic, but the best place for Instagram growth hacks these days is just Adam Mosseri's front-facing videos. He takes to Instagram, he uses Instagram very well, he goes direct, posts reels about all sorts of things. So today, I got surfaced one, if you post something and it doesn't do well, should you delete it and then post it again? And he says, no, because the algorithm will give the same result. And your followers who saw the first one didn't like it, they're going to see it and like it even less the second time they see it. He just answers a bunch of common questions. He does Q and As. And it's actually the best way to communicate and get insights into how the Instagram platform works. But it's not personalized. Like, he's

• 9:15John Coogan?

  just giving generic, one-size-fits-all advice. I want the Adam Mosseri brain enhanced with Meta's AI tailored to my account. That's what I want. And like a social media co-pilot. But maybe I'm in the minority here. I don't know. Maybe I'm the only one that would want this. I feel like tools for creators would be a great way to to launch this. Even like a small user, they, everyone almost always cares about, oh, I'd love to get a couple more views on whatever, even if they're just using it, being primarily a consumption tool. And then there's also agentic shopping, which we asked Mark Zuckerberg about at Meta Connect last year, this idea that, you know, the Meta Ray-Ban displays, they have the

• 9:56John Coogan?

  HUD, they have AI, you should be able to look at a pair of shoes and say, order me those. And he sort of like gestured towards that being one potential possible future. But it's crazy to me that we haven't even seen them really try to remove at least one click from the shopping experience, store some more of your data, shorten the funnel, increase conversion rates. That's good for brands, that's good for companies that advertise on Meta, it's good for Meta, it's good for users. And it just doesn't feel like that's where the energy has been, in terms of productizing AI within the family of apps. And so it feels like e-commerce will see agentic shopping happening. We're getting closer.

• 10:39John Coogan?

  Computer use is getting better, APIs are there, MCP servers and Shopify has a bunch of tools for this stuff. But it's weird that Meta hasn't even been experimenting there. And we haven't seen like, oh yeah, like they launched a thing where if you see an ad, you can click a button and the agent will try and go checkout with you and then just confirm the details within the Meta app and you don't actually have to open up the Safari window. I don't know, maybe that works, maybe it doesn't, at least we're on the experiment, maybe they have, I don't know, maybe I just missed it. Yeah, this feels like a wind down of like the super intelligence ambitions that Zuck was gesturing towards last year. But I don't know, maybe this is in the path, maybe, maybe this is just a temporary thing.

• 11:16Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, and, and, you know, if you look at the SpaceX deals with Google and Anthropic, they were, they weren't like five-year deals, right? They were shorter term opportunities for both sides to get out. And I think that Meta could easily do something like that where they could make, again, this is like the practical decision and say like, hey, we actually do have way more capacity than we need. We plan on being able to utilize it fully over time, but we need to get our products sort of ramped up. And so in the meantime, why not sell that capacity and signal to the market that we're not entirely irrational?

• 11:53John Coogan?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 11:54Speaker 02

  I think Meta can actually wait until like the, the features that they need to implement are like extremely obvious, right? Like Apple waited a long time to actually implement these things, even though everyone was like basically begging. I, I don't know if people are like begging for AI features in Instagram and maybe that'll happen in the future and they can just basically just wait while like, oh, we're not really sure how to implement this stuff. Yeah, you can put in the search bar, whatever, but it doesn't improve the experience that much. But maybe in a year or two, there's going to be some feature that like, wow, everyone really wants this in Instagram. By then, you know, they'll have all the compute necessary, they can, you know, 90 days before they implement it, they, they can, you know, get out of the, the lease or whatever.

• 12:29John Coogan?

  Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's interesting. I feel like they just need to do more product experimentation. Like, the core Instagram team, they launched the, what's it called, glimpses or something? It's like a shorter, even shorter version of stories, like, lower. It like sits in the little sidebar of the chat. Like, they are launching different features across the family of apps, but that culture, like, it feels like they have a research organization, but they don't have an AI product organization that's actively productizing things as quickly. I mean, Meta Vibes, for, you know, even though it was like this white label of Midjourney, was, well, at least it was launched fast, and at least they got the feedback.

• 13:05Speaker 02

  I don't think they've ever been like the company that like really innovates on product, right? There's gonna be some feature that everyone's like, wow, this is really great for AI, and then they can then just integrate it into all their apps. They have all the capacity to serve it by that point.

• 13:19John Coogan?

  Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know where it goes. Amit is investing, over there, shares his perspective, two perspectives on the Meta news. He says, bearish, the bearish take is if Meta has excess compute that they're willing to sell via a new cloud business, doesn't that mean we aren't compute constrained? Isn't this really bad for NeoClouds? Why would Meta give a deal to CoreWeaver Iron if they just sell the compute themselves? Furthermore, wouldn't they cut CapEx because idle compute as the basis for a new business means they don't need as much compute as they bought? Which means CapEx should come down, that would be bearish for all semis. The bullish take is if Meta is building a cloud business, even if they are using idle compute, which means they aren't compute constrained,

• 14:03John Coogan?

  they might end up spending more on CapEx to compete with GCP, AWS, and Azure. Like, if they realize that selling compute and services on top of a Meta cloud is better than just ads, then wouldn't they end up having to spend in the same way that Google, Microsoft, Amazon do in order to build out a full cloud business? They do have a lot of capabilities in terms of spinning up data centers quickly. Maybe not quite as quickly as SpaceX and AWS, but they're certainly like near the frontier of that capability in terms of putting up GPUs in tents. Says more CapEx would be good for semis. So what do people think? Where do we land on this? The market is certainly reacting positively to Meta and negatively to the NeoClouds because there's a new competitor in town.

• 14:45Jordi Hays?

  Zephyr and the Triniti are going pretty hard. They say LMAO. Zach finally takes the L.

• 14:52John Coogan?

  Okay, so if this is a, if this is a metaverse style side quest and the, and the superintelligence meta-trained models are the VR of this cycle for Meta's attempt at a new business creation. And the meta-trained models get sort of mothballed in the way that the meta-quest and the VR strategy got mothballed. What is the meta Ray-Bans of MSL? Like, what would, what would remain? Because when they wind down one of these projects, sometimes you get a meta Ray-Bans, which is pretty good business and growing and, and cool. And like, there's development there, but it's a much more narrow focused. And I would say image model, but they, they seem to be-

• 15:37Jordi Hays?

  But wouldn't it just be this, like, NeoCloud business?

• 15:39John Coogan?

  Maybe, yeah.

• 15:39Jordi Hays?

  That's what's gonna stay on?

• 15:40John Coogan?

  That's not as fun as meta Ray-Bans, though. I want a consumer product, a consumer company.

• 15:46Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, and it's interesting because you can, you can make the case that Meta could build an amazing inference business.

• 15:56John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 15:56Jordi Hays?

  Right? They already serve millions of businesses globally.

• 16:00John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 16:01Jordi Hays?

  They could make a pretty compelling case for how, like, hey, we help people acquire customers and we help people deliver products and services over here.

• 16:10John Coogan?

  Yeah, we've talked about that before. I don't know that I buy that, that the fact that they have, like, you know, every single mobile gaming company and D2C e-commerce business on is, actually flows over to, well, now get your tokens from us?

• 16:24Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, I just, I just, I just think that, like, people have it in their head, like, okay, Meta is a consumer business.

• 16:29John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 16:30Jordi Hays?

  But they have massive sales teams, account management teams. They know how to get in front of customers. They've got to the point where, you know, again, they, they're not operating a commodity business, right?

• 16:43John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 16:43Jordi Hays?

  Having their, you know, social networks. Cloud is, is closer to one, but-

• 16:50Jordi Hays?

  Anyways, I'm interested to see, I imagine they'll have to come out with their own kind of news around this pretty quickly, so that they're not sitting in limbo with just one kind of rumored article floating out there and people are speculating.

• 17:05John Coogan?

  The Meta Ray-Ban display is a good example of like, or Meta Ray-Bans, good example of like, there's, there's probably a piece of consumer hardware that's AI-enabled, like The Ring or something where, or just getting really good at voice models, or just getting really good at image models, and if they're a little bit more narrow and constrained, they could probably completely dominate that, but trying to do superintelligence and, and coding agents, and it's a little, it's a little scattered potentially. Jay Yun says, "We are still massively short compute Meta and XAI are selling compute because there's no inference demand for their models. It's a compute allocation problem. Too much compute in the hands of players with no internal use for it. Not a compute surplus problem."

• 17:47Jordi Hays?

  More Meta news.

• 17:49John Coogan?

  What is that?

• 17:50Jordi Hays?

  Apparently, according to Bobby Allen over at NPR, Meta considered buying CalShe before it's developing its own prediction market app. That is sort of a classic Meta playbook. This sort of puts to bed your theory that they might be just making a, a, you know,

• 18:09John Coogan?

  Clout-based.

• 18:10Jordi Hays?

  A clout-based prediction markets where you compete for your ability to see the future.

• 18:15Speaker 02

  Like, I'm still Manifold, is that right?

• 18:19John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 18:20Speaker 02

  So it's like a, it's like a pretty big platform.

• 18:23John Coogan?

  Yes, but I was saying, there's a chance right now, based on the reporting, that it could be the Manifold strategy, or it could be the polymarket CalShe strategy, and the fact that they didn't try and acquire Manifold, they tried to acquire CalShe, sort of signals like, hey, they're probably going the, the financially incentivized route, which I think fits with your thesis that, you know, it's in consumer, it's profitable and growing very fast. And also, Tarek from CalShe was taking shots at Instagram, saying it's brain rot, saying that like, every minute you spend on CalShe is a minute that you're not spending brain rotting on Instagram, which is like, okay. A lot of people would say that these are like equivalent, or maybe one is worse than the other.

• 19:03Jordi Hays?

  Is the potential profit pool worth the risk of all the attention you're going to get from lawmakers globally by integrating like betting into the product that is already...

• 19:15Jordi Hays?

  Under attack on like a million different fronts, right? It feels like you're

• 19:20John Coogan?

  With the movie coming out and stuff, it's like you're jumping straight to the

• 19:23Jordi Hays?

  It feels like you have a golden goose, right? And the goose is getting valued.

• 19:27John Coogan?

  The goose is getting valued.

• 19:29Jordi Hays?

  Going back, I'm gonna just keep going back to the slides.

• 19:30John Coogan?

  Love these slides.

• 19:32Jordi Hays?

  The goose is valued, it's producing golden eggs and you see another golden egg, but it's almost like a poisoned golden egg. And if you bring it over, it might to the farm, it might kill the goose.

• 19:42John Coogan?

  Okay.

• 19:42Jordi Hays?

  It might kill your, your main goose.

• 19:44John Coogan?

  Potentially.

• 19:45Jordi Hays?

  And so it feels, feels risky.

• 19:47John Coogan?

  Yeah. Google AI overviews decreased outbound organic clicks by 40%. Eric Sufer is sharing a new paper by researchers at Carnegie Mellon and the Indian School of Business. Finds that AI overviews were triggered in roughly 41% of observed Google searches and when triggered, reduced outbound organic clicks by about 40%. That seems like one to one. The presence of AI overviews increased the likelihood of a zero click search by roughly 35%. Everyone is going, uh, everyone's going Google zero at this point. And, uh, the, uh, the founder, Josh Marshall of Talking Points Memo, wrote about, uh, Google AI oligarchy and the end of the open web. It's an interesting read, but, uh, we'll go through it another time.

• 20:29Jordi Hays?

  December 2010, Demis was scraping together a couple million bucks.

• 20:35John Coogan?

  This is crazy.

• 20:36Jordi Hays?

  For a small company called DeepMind. This is, uh, for a founder that just like, you know, had their, uh, started their career in the last few years. This is like inconceivable. They're like, wait, you mean two on 50, right? It's like, no. Sold half the company at five million post as one of the most elite

• 21:00John Coogan?

  Can you imagine what DeepMind would be worth if it stayed independent this whole time? I don't know, maybe, maybe there'd be another, another path or something.

• 21:08Jordi Hays?

  Are you saying they sold too early?

• 21:10John Coogan?

  It seemed like they sold too early. I don't know. Hard to say, hard to say.

• 21:15Jordi Hays?

  Paper Hands?

• 21:16John Coogan?

  Paper.

• 21:16Jordi Hays?

  Paper Hands Pete?

• 21:18John Coogan?

  Oh, no, no, no, no. I think all the VCs didn't want to sell. Especially because the whole Google thing, that was like the whole story was, uh, was don't sell to Google. Google's like the bad one, uh, which is funny because like Google's been very responsible and, and you know, great, great company. Um, I was, I was playing around with VO three or VO four. Where, where are we in the VO models? Um, so good and yet still not indistinguishable from reality. We're so, so close and yet so far, if you want to generate a, a video these days. Um, it is cool. You can do it on your phone though. I like it. And Jordy, uh, people were asking you to do a little bit of a, little bit of a spin for everyone.

• 22:01John Coogan?

  Show off the new merch you got there. I'll tell everyone about Codex on the arms. Codex is a powerful workspace for getting work done with AI agents. Whether you're writing code, analyzing data, creating content or automating business workflows, or just trying to, just trying to look good. Codex.

• 22:18Jordi Hays?

  We just got our first shipment of, I think around 201 of our new merch product.

• 22:24John Coogan?

  Oh, okay. I know the one you're talking about.

• 22:26Jordi Hays?

  And that one is going to be available online.

• 22:28John Coogan?

  That's the one?

• 22:30Jordi Hays?

  No, no, no, no, no. Not the one, not the one you're thinking of.

• 22:32John Coogan?

  Okay, okay, okay.

• 22:33Jordi Hays?

  No, that one will also be available online.

• 22:35John Coogan?

  After all of that.

• 22:35Jordi Hays?

  We have one, we have one that, uh, we have one that's a little bit silly.

• 22:38John Coogan?

  It's groundbreaking.

• 22:39Jordi Hays?

  It's groundbreaking.

• 22:40John Coogan?

  In the best way possible.

• 22:41Jordi Hays?

  It's, it's, it's, it's a product that humanity has been trying to create for centuries.

• 22:47John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 22:48Jordi Hays?

  And we did it. We did it. Uh,

• 22:51John Coogan?

  We did it. We had a breakthrough.

• 22:53Jordi Hays?

  We had a big breakthrough.

• 22:54John Coogan?

  We had a big breakthrough.

• 22:55Jordi Hays?

  It took a long time.

• 22:55John Coogan?

  It did.

• 22:56Jordi Hays?

  Uh, but, uh, but yeah, no, the merch will finally be for sale and we will make be, it will be dropping in the chat.

• 23:03John Coogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 23:04Jordi Hays?

  First.

• 23:04John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 23:05Jordi Hays?

  We're not exactly sure exactly when.

• 23:07John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 23:08Jordi Hays?

  But we will give it to you guys first and thank you for the patience.

• 23:13John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 23:13Jordi Hays?

  But on that note.

• 23:14John Coogan?

  We'll see you tomorrow. Leave us five stars on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Sign up for our newsletter, tbb.com. We'll see you tomorrow. Goodbye.

• 23:21Jordi Hays?

  We love you.