Things You Thought You Knew – Dinosaurs & Batteries

What if the dinosaurs had a space program? Neil deGrasse Tyson and comic co-host Chuck Nice explore what Earth Day meant for the dinosaurs, how batteries work, and changing our infrastructure, with creator of Atlas Obscura, Dylan Thuras.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Welcome to StarTalk. Your place in the universe where science and pop culture collide. StarTalk begins right now. Welcome to StarTalk. Things You Thought You Knew Edition. I got with me Chuck.

• 0:20Chuck Nice?

  Yes.

• 0:21Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Do you remember back a few years, a few years ago, there was the science march on Washington?

• 0:26Chuck Nice?

  I was there.

• 0:27Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, what deeply concerns me is that we needed a science march. That should not be necessary, alright? So the fact that we have a day committed to Earth. That should not be necessary.

• 0:43Chuck Nice?

  You're right, every day.

• 0:45Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  It is sad.

• 0:45Chuck Nice?

  Every day should be Earth Day.

• 0:48Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That's, it's just, everyone, every day should be appreciating Earth. And that is not how that's been going. But the fact that we have to be reminded of these things, I guess that that's how you gotta do it, right?

• 0:58Chuck Nice?

  Yeah.

• 0:58Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Right, once a year. And so, Earth Day. People keep talking about save Earth.

• 1:07Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 1:07Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Earth, Earth don't care.

• 1:09Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 1:10Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Earth is here with you and without you.

• 1:13Chuck Nice?

  Earth is like honey badger. Earth don't care, okay? You gonna run away greenhouse gas, guess what, Earth don't care. Earth is here. Earth gonna be here.

• 1:23Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You'll be extinct, you'll be extinct.

• 1:25Chuck Nice?

  You won't be here, but Earth will be here, Earth don't care, okay?

• 1:28Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  The planet is here to stay.

• 1:31Chuck Nice?

  Oceans are made of acid now, guess what, Earth don't care.

• 1:38Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So all this stuff to save Earth, what people really mean is save life on Earth, or save us on Earth.

• 1:45Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 1:45Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So it's more parochial than save planet Earth. The planet Earth was here when the asteroid took out the dinosaurs. A rock the size of Mount Everest, Earth was here, before, during, and after that, alright?

• 1:57Chuck Nice?

  So let me ask you this, since you brought up the dinosaurs, which I find kind of intriguing.

• 2:05Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  By the way, if they had a space program, probably they would have deflected the asteroid and they'd still be here.

• 2:10Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, and we'd be snacks.

• 2:12Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Snack, tasty tidbit.

• 2:15Chuck Nice?

  Exactly.

• 2:17Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Scurrying underfoot.

• 2:20Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And by the way, did you know the evidence for why they'd still be here?

• 2:23Chuck Nice?

  No.

• 2:24Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  It's very excellent evidence. Okay, you wanna hear it?

• 2:27Chuck Nice?

  Go ahead, yes.

• 2:28Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, the dinosaurs were around for like 200 million years. I forgot the exact number, but it's around there. Million years before the asteroid took them out.

• 2:43Chuck Nice?

  There you go.

• 2:43Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And how many years has it been since the asteroid? 65, 66 million years. So they were around for longer than the time that is around since they went extinct.

• 2:52Chuck Nice?

  That is exactly what I was about to ask you, but go ahead.

• 2:54Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, so now here's what's even better. You ready?

• 2:57Chuck Nice?

  Go ahead.

• 2:57Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Do you remember the, the, the, uh, who's the one with the plates on the back spine?

• 3:03Chuck Nice?

  Stegosaurus is one.

• 3:04Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Stegosaurus. Do you realize the time between the last appearance of Stegosaurus and the rise of T-Rex is longer than the time since T-Rex went extinct?

• 3:19Chuck Nice?

  Wow.

• 3:20Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So in other words, we are closer in time to T-Rex than T-Rex was to Stegosaurus.

• 3:26Chuck Nice?

  Wow. Look at that.

• 3:28Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So this is what I'm saying. So they just were unlucky. Now, so Earth Day, we're trying to protect Earth from our own forces, but really, we should be protecting Earth from rogue asteroids as well. Fold that into all of the ways we wanna protect life on Earth.

• 3:45Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, asteroids are up there going, "We did it before, we could do it again."

• 3:48Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  We'll take your ass out again.

• 3:50Chuck Nice?

  That's right. They're all talking to each other like, "Okay, so Apophis, give us a report." "Well, I missed him this time. I couldn't get to the keyhole, but guess what? Next time, I'm shooting."

• 4:06Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, I gotta tell people what the keyhole is.

• 4:07Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 4:08Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  There's certain trajectories where they don't hit Earth. But if they go through this point in space, Earth's gravity can be just right, or rather, just wrong, so that the next time around, it ends up hitting Earth.

• 4:24Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 4:24Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And you call that a keyhole. If it comes a little closer, then Earth's gravity will swing it harder, swing it farther away, a little too... If it misses it the other direction, it'll go too slow. So if it's just right through the keyhole, then it will hit Earth. So it's an interesting name for it, and I think it's well-named. But a keyhole implies there's something you want on the other side.

• 4:44Chuck Nice?

  That's true.

• 4:44Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And that's definitely not the case here.

• 4:45Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, we don't wanna unlock our impending doom.

• 4:48Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Correct.

• 4:49Chuck Nice?

  Yeah.

• 4:49Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And it wouldn't be a problem if in the future, we have like mining companies, let's say, that mine asteroids. I've said many times, surely the first trillionaire will be the person who exploits the natural resources on asteroids. If they can mine an asteroid, they can probably nudge it out of the way. So we get on the horn and say, hey, we found an asteroid just discovered in our deep-space network. It looks like it's headed our way. Could you just hop over to that and deflect it, or take half of it away?

• 5:15Chuck Nice?

  And then he'll say, "I can for one trillion dollars."

• 5:23Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I forgot. This is a Bond villain story here.

• 5:27Chuck Nice?

  Hey, listen. For one trillion dollars. Exactly.

• 5:33Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, so yeah, protecting Earth, I think, can involve these other, these other ways. I mean, why not? So I look forward to the day where we're so good at this that we can retire Earth Day. I mean, why not?

• 5:47Chuck Nice?

  That would be great. Yeah, cuz it says that our ever-present mentality is one where we appreciate it always, which we should.

• 5:55Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And we know never to take it for granted.

• 5:57Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 5:58Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And under those situations, we wouldn't have needed Earth Day in the first place.

• 6:02Chuck Nice?

  So true, yeah. I don't know what it is about human beings that makes us take things that are so necessary for our survival.

• 6:11Chuck Nice?

  For granted, it's curious to me and I I'm really puzzled by it like I think about it a lot.

• 6:18Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Chuck, it needs better marketing, maybe. I mean, because people say, I don't like science and I don't like space and I don't like this. Okay, and they'll say, you know, I'm I'm fine with my, you know, weather.com and my

• 6:29Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 6:29Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And my DirecTV, but I hate space and I hate this. So what you do is you sneak in in the dark of night and remove everything from their room that was inspired or invented by virtue of space technology.

• 6:42Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 6:42Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And they'll wake up in a in a cave.

• 6:44Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, they'll wake up naked.

• 6:46Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  In a cave.

• 6:46Chuck Nice?

  Cold.

• 6:47Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  In a cave. In a cave.

• 6:48Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 6:48Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Basically that. And so maybe we need those reminders. Once a year, that'll happen to you and you have to re-acquire all the technologies that you were taking for granted.

• 6:58Chuck Nice?

  Yeah. See, you know what, it's, yeah, you're absolutely right. Because even when you think about the burning of fossil fuel, it's greed that that has that has driven that for many, many years.

• 7:09Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, greed drives so much of everything, but that greed in particular had consequences, right? I mean, greed is greed is greed and that's.

• 7:17Chuck Nice?

  Oh, my God, you sound like Gordon Gekko right now. Greed is greed is good.

• 7:25Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Greed is good.

• 7:27Chuck Nice?

  Yes.

• 7:29Chuck Nice?

  But I'm saying this, if people, if everyone were scientifically literate, even the greedy would always look for better ways to make money. So even if I were the guy who owned the the oil company.

• 7:42Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  This is my point.

• 7:42Chuck Nice?

  My being scientifically literate would say, well, this is really an inefficient way for me to power stuff. And it's only a matter of time before it's obsolete. Let me look forward and I'm going to invent this now.

• 7:54Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Because I'm greedy.

• 7:55Chuck Nice?

  Because I'm greedy.

• 7:56Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yes, exactly, exactly. Now, let me, let me try to make all these other power sources affordable and cheap and easy. Because then I will become rich for doing so because I'm greedy.

• 8:07Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 8:08Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So you just have to shift the greed vector. Into the green direction.

• 8:12Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 8:12Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And maybe that's not what not enough people are thinking to do that. Because they think that any greedy capitalist is necessarily anti-green.

• 8:21Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 8:21Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And it might start out that way, but ultimately they're all gonna have to switch that around.

• 8:25Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, that's right.

• 8:26Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And they kinda did it. Is it called Mobile Oil Company anymore? I don't think so.

• 8:30Chuck Nice?

  I don't think so either.

• 8:31Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  All right. The oil was taken out of all of those names.

• 8:35Chuck Nice?

  Yeah. Yeah, no, yeah. Exxon is not Exxon Oil, or it was.

• 8:39Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Actually, it's ExxonMobil, right, right.

• 8:41Chuck Nice?

  ExxonMobil.

• 8:41Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And they see themselves as energy companies. So they're getting ready. They're priming the pumps for this future.

• 8:48Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 8:48Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, you know, that's fine.

• 8:50Chuck Nice?

  So listen here, you granola Birkenstock hippie-wearing suckers. Get on the game and let's get some capitalism so we can end this global warming thing. Because only greed, only greed is gonna help us. Okay?

• 9:05Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Birkenstock-wearing.

• 9:07Chuck Nice?

  Sitting around all earth and crunchy while we all die. Okay? Put your tie dye down, okay? Stop smoking your weed for a second and let's get on this. Let's make some money on this, damn it. That's the only way we're gonna win.

• 9:26Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That's a whole other outlook right there. I should write an op-ed with that, with that point of view.

• 9:31Chuck Nice?

  Exactly.

• 9:32Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Greed is good.

• 9:34Chuck Nice?

  Greed is good. Let greed save the earth, doggone it. Greed and green, baby. Greed and green. Let's make it happen.

• 9:41Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  All right, Chuck, we gotta close down this segment. But in the next one, we're talking about electric vehicles.

• 9:46Chuck Nice?

  Ooh, yes.

• 9:47Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Gotta revisit that topic every now and then because it's changing so fast.

• 9:51Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, love it.

• 9:52Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  All right, when we return.

• 10:19Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Jack.

• 10:20Chuck Nice?

  Yes.

• 10:22Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  How you doing, man? I think it's time to revisit the electric car phenomenon.

• 10:27Chuck Nice?

  Yes, I think it's time for the whole world to visit the electric car.

• 10:32Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  The whole world, the whole world.

• 10:33Chuck Nice?

  The entire world.

• 10:34Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  The whole world is watching.

• 10:36Chuck Nice?

  Yes.

• 10:36Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, let's remember a few things, alright? Back when electricity was discovered and harnessed and there were some early ideas about electric cars, but they they didn't catch on relative to the combustion engine. And there was some politics, there was some, you know, this sort of thing.

• 10:54Chuck Nice?

  Right, Exxon, Exxon was invented. You know, once they invented Exxon, it was just like, "Death to you, electric!"

• 11:02Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  No, it was just...

• 11:07Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, so, the point is, right now, electric vehicles are making a comeback. And I think the stigma that electric vehicles had for so long was that they were underpowered, or they looked ugly, or no one's getting a date.

• 11:20Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 11:20Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  If you're picking somebody up in an electric vehicle. And so, so that stereotype has been broken and busted open. And so now, you have many manufacturers who are, who are putting forth their...

• 11:35Chuck Nice?

  Sexy, electric cars.

• 11:38Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Electric cars. And so, so there's still some challenges. For example, they still run on batteries.

• 11:44Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 11:45Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Now, battery, it's like, okay, that was invented in the, you know, 19th century. The chemistry was a little different.

• 11:52Chuck Nice?

  Wow.

• 11:52Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  But if you want to look at sort of the last holdout of a century-old technology within a modern vehicle, it's the battery.

• 12:02Chuck Nice?

  Wow.

• 12:02Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Battery technology.

• 12:03Chuck Nice?

  Never thought of it that way, but you're absolutely right. It is, and it is... Really kind of an antiquated way of looking about, thinking about powering things.

• 12:13Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Correct, and but it's nonetheless a, a, an effective means of storing energy.

• 12:20Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 12:21Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  An effective means of storing energy that you, but you have to recharge it, but you carry that around with you, okay? Here's the problem, if you have pure solar panels on your car.

• 12:32Chuck Nice?

  Okay.

• 12:33Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, what happens if a cloud goes in front of the sun?

• 12:36Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 12:36Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You could, you could picture this, where all these cars are approaching the intersection, and then like, a cloud goes in front of the sun, then they all just stop.

• 12:43Chuck Nice?

  Oh, everybody just slows down.

• 12:44Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And then, until the cloud goes away, and then they keep going.

• 12:47Chuck Nice?

  And they weren't being polite. Nobody was being polite.

• 12:52Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, so there are sources of energy that are in the moment, that you, that are not effective for cars, because you want to be able to store it and use it on command. This is what made gasoline, so oil-derived products, so effective. Because they have a lot of chemical energy built into their molecules, you carry that with you. You load it up over here, you carry it with you, you use it up, and then you reload at another destination. So the portability of energy is everything. Right? Okay, so, here's an interesting fact. All right? Most of our transportation industry runs on gasoline or diesel.

• 13:32Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 13:33Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And so, we all know where to get that, you get that at a gas station. And we all know where the oil comes from, it's from the Middle East, or from an Alaska pipeline, or from Venezuela, wherever.

• 13:46Chuck Nice?

  Wherever there's trouble in the world.

• 13:49Chuck Nice?

  If there's trouble in the world, you know we got some oil there. We know we got some oil there. You know what I mean? Anybody dropping bombs, gotta be some oil there.

• 13:57Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, there's, so the, so, oil is geopolitically significant.

• 14:06Chuck Nice?

  Absolutely, yeah.

• 14:08Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Because not everybody in the world has their own oil well, where they just draw their own energy from Earth's crust.

• 14:13Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 14:14Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay? So, somebody's gonna have it, and they're gonna have more of it than you do, now you have to negotiate for it, buy it. And are they your friend, or are they your enemy, or are they your frenemy? All right? So all of this matters, so that you can drive your car to work each morning. So, the point is...

• 14:30Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  The geopolitics of access to oil influences things like your price of gas at the pump.

• 14:37Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 14:37Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Alright, and so that's weird when you think about it. So, so what happens when you use an electric car? And yes, you do have this hundred-year-old technology, the battery, but it's all we have for now. And the batteries are getting better than they were, but they're still batteries, but fine. Alright, I've got a battery. And I, and I use it all up and I have to charge it.

• 14:59Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 14:59Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So what is a battery? There's like all these electrons in one half of the battery. And they have energy there, and by tapping that energy, the electrons move to the other side of the battery. And then your battery's dead.

• 15:12Chuck Nice?

  Okay.

• 15:14Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  In a non-rechargeable battery, you then throw it away. In a rechargeable battery, you reverse the current and the electrons move upstream. Think of it like salmon swimming upstream, and they go upstream and they lodge themselves on the opposite plate again. That's, that's basically a battery.

• 15:29Chuck Nice?

  But first they mate with another electron and die.

• 15:34Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  No, that's where the salmon analogy breaks down.

• 15:37Chuck Nice?

  Oh, okay, I'm sorry, okay.

• 15:40Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And a bear is ready to eat them on the top.

• 15:42Chuck Nice?

  Just swipes them out of the water.

• 15:48Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Poor salmon, be nice. Oh, a quick point there, a point we've made before, but it's worth saying in this moment. If you have a freshly dead battery.

• 15:56Chuck Nice?

  Okay.

• 15:57Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And then you put in the reverse charge. Those electrons can lodge anywhere on that opposite plate that they happen to land.

• 16:05Chuck Nice?

  Okay.

• 16:06Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  They got a zillion places to go.

• 16:08Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 16:09Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, to choose from, and then they land there. But when you're half-charged. Only half the spaces are left. When you're ninety percent charged. There's only ten percent of the spaces left.

• 16:22Chuck Nice?

  Got you.

• 16:23Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, alright, so the electrons have a harder time finding that remaining spot.

• 16:31Chuck Nice?

  It's like musical chairs for electrons.

• 16:33Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah. Or, or a big parking lot around a football stadium. If you're the first one there, park anywhere.

• 16:40Chuck Nice?

  Right, that's true, yeah.

• 16:41Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And you, and you park within seconds.

• 16:43Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 16:43Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  But if you come later, there's a spot for you, but you gotta find it. It could take you a half, take you a half hour to park, okay? So, as the charge gets higher and higher on your battery.

• 16:56Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  The time it takes to charge, the rest of it continues to grow. Right, right. Okay, so just something to keep in mind. Mm-hmm. So your battery is not screwing with you people when it's it's not, it's not just like, you know, breaking down on you in the last 10%, which is Right, right. It's not messing with you in the last 10, 20%. It's just the natural physics of that, of that setup. Anyhow, so watch what happens. Uh, now I want to recharge my battery. It's electric, so I plug it into the wall. Oh, oh, wait a minute. Well, where does the wall get its energy? From your regional power station. Right.

• 17:36Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Let's go there. So you walk down to the power station. Hey, folks, how are you making power today? Well, it's nice to see you have such a cordial relationship with, with your electric company. Because if I walk down, I'm gonna be like, what the hell is up with this bill?

• 17:55Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Now, I ain't even been home for two weeks. I haven't been home for two weeks and this bill is exactly the same. I haven't run the dishwasher, the washing machine. Right. What's up, people? What kind of clip joint are you running?

• 18:11Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And Chuck, I agree. I go on vacation, come back, it don't make no damn bit of difference. No difference. Okay, so pretending I have a relationship with the power company manager. Right. So I say, how you making energy today? And they show me the coal cars that drive up, dump coal into the hopper and they burn the coal. Fabulous. So that's, that, those are fossil fuels, because coal comes from long-dead plants. And this is carbon that had been sequestered for millions of years. It's now getting released into the atmosphere. So Chuck, here's the catch with the coal cars that are dumping coal into the hoppers that are burning it in the electric company.

• 18:51Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So that electric company just, I'm making this up, but you get a sense of this. That electric company just invested in solar panels. They have a solar panel array out back, all right? What else do they have? They have, they're tapped into a hydroelectric plant. Nice. All right, it's up the road a bit, okay? And what else might they have? Maybe a little offshore wind? Oh, maybe there are some winds, okay, some wind farms. So what's happening now is their energy profile that they generate

• 19:25Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Can come from any combination of these sources.

• 19:29Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  If you wanted to run your car off of wind energy, you couldn't, or solar, you couldn't, or hydroelectric, you couldn't. But the electric company can. And they can send it to your wall socket.

• 19:44Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So the engine of your car doesn't have to be able to run off of 12 different ingredients. It doesn't have, your car doesn't have to be so designed as to be able to have to have solar panels and wind turbines. It doesn't have to have any of that. It just has to have a power plug.

• 20:01Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 20:02Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Plugs into the wall. And then you can put pressure on the power companies to generate energies in whatever green way you dictate or want or desire.

• 20:12Chuck Nice?

  Excellent.

• 20:13Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And that way, your car ends up being equipped to go forward in a green turning society.

• 20:22Chuck Nice?

  Sweet.

• 20:22Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Whereas your internal combustion engine car, even though they still far outnumber electric cars, and they're still in many ways cheaper to run and operate. The fact is, if you're going to be future-proofing your driving, you'd want to think about this as an option.

• 20:41Chuck Nice?

  Right, right. But the cool thing is that electric cars have kind of proven to be better in many respects.

• 20:52Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Oh, oh, oh, wait, wait.

• 20:54Chuck Nice?

  Go ahead.

• 20:54Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay. Yeah, I mean, so I was just talking about the basic physics of it.

• 20:58Chuck Nice?

  Okay.

• 20:59Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, first of all, last I checked, there's 40,000, 40,000 electric charging stations across the country, right? 40,000 of them. But in addition, if the whole car is electric, then everything, and they're modern and new, they're, of course, on the internet, they, you can talk to it from the internet. Everything is connected, everything. It's like if you reinvented the car today. It's how you would design a car. And that's how all the great car manufacturers are putting their cars on the road right now. Their electric cars. So, so I look forward to what that future is. Plus, an electric car, in principle, can talk to another electric car.

• 21:41Chuck Nice?

  Absolutely.

• 21:41Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Think about that.

• 21:42Chuck Nice?

  That's great.

• 21:43Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Excuse me, I want to change lanes now, could you give me a little space? And the cars to my right separate?

• 21:48Chuck Nice?

  Unless, unless it's from Boston.

• 21:50Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  No.

• 21:51Chuck Nice?

  If it's from Boston, they'll be like, ah, screw you. I'm in a wicked hurry.

• 22:00Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Electric cars with, with accents, with regional accents?

• 22:02Chuck Nice?

  With regional accents.

• 22:06Chuck Nice?

  You're on I-95, it's like, hey, hey, I'm driving over here. Ah, screw you. I'm in a wicked hurry. You and your car.

• 22:16Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Boston meets Brooklyn on Interstate 95.

• 22:22Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, so anyhow, so electric cars is the future. It really is. And, by the way, the chemicals that manufacture an electric car, those are not all green. You know, you still got to make the car. So, but these are first steps. And I, I applaud them all. Because it means society is responding to the, to the, the cry of danger that scientists have been put, have put forth for decades now regarding the, our role in the warming of this planet.

• 22:52Chuck Nice?

  Literally decades.

• 22:53Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Decades, and the catastrophic consequences that would unfold as a result. So, uh, so there you have it.

• 23:02Chuck Nice?

  I love it. I can't wait to get an electric car. Now let's talk about the flux capacitor.

• 23:07Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Nope, that has to be a whole other show.

• 23:09Chuck Nice?

  Oh.

• 23:10Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Because I'm working on one myself.

• 23:15Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Because, because the, the electric engine can enable you to travel through space.

• 23:20Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 23:20Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  But the flux capacitor. Gives a boost to that so they can travel through time.

• 23:26Chuck Nice?

  Nice.

• 23:27Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  There you go.

• 23:27Chuck Nice?

  Yes. Marty, it's a kid's Marty.

• 23:34Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  At the end of one, right, right. And one last, a couple of quick notes about Back to the Future. I don't know if you know this, but he experimented, he tested the time travel machine. On an animal before he tested it on a human.

• 23:53Chuck Nice?

  I'm trying to remember the movie now.

• 23:54Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, he tested it on Einstein, the dog.

• 23:56Chuck Nice?

  Oh, that's right.

• 23:58Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Right, so animal testing, he did it on a animal. So if the stuff blew up, he would have lost Einstein. All right, so just a fast little fact about that.

• 24:07Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 24:08Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And I have to level with you, Chuck. In physics and electronics, there is such a thing as flux. And there is such a thing as a capacitor.

• 24:16Chuck Nice?

  Okay.

• 24:17Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  But there's no such thing as a flux capacitor.

• 24:19Chuck Nice?

  All right, well, let's get on that.

• 24:25Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So I have to end it there on that sad note. There really is no such thing as a flux capacitor.

• 24:31Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  All right, there you go, Chuck.

• 24:32Chuck Nice?

  That's cool, man.

• 24:33Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Everything you ever never needed to know, almost everything about electric cars.

• 24:37Chuck Nice?

  I can't wait to get one, I'm serious.

• 24:40Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Chuck, we got to take a quick break, but when we come back, we're going to have the host of the Atlas Obscura podcast, Dylan Thurras. And he's going to continue this conversation about the place and the role and the future of electric cars and civilization. So be there.

• 25:04Chuck Nice?

  Hey, StarTalk fans. This next segment is sponsored by the all-electric Chevrolet Bolt EUV. The everyday electric vehicle for everyday people. That's us. Atlas Obscura host Dylan Thurras joined in for a fascinating Cosmic Queries conversation about the future of electric vehicles. The all-electric Chevy Bolt EUV has so many cool features, including the ability to engage in conversations hands-free with the industry's first hands-free driving assistance technology. You can find out more at chevrolet.com/electric/bolt-euv. All right, let's get back to the show.

• 25:46Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  This is StarTalk. This is a Cosmic Queries segment where we're gonna just explore what the present and future is of electric vehicles. Got with me my co-host Chuck Nice. Chuck?

• 26:00Chuck Nice?

  Hey Neil. Yes, man. So, you know, I know you're concerned about the environment and people may not believe, but I am too. And so...

• 26:08Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay. I believe you Chuck.

• 26:11Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, so we had the opportunity to partner with the Chevrolet Bolt EUV. And I was able to take a tour. Super excited about this because, I mean, this is the future. This is the future right now and they're making it really accessible.

• 26:25Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So wait, so EUV, is that like SUV except it's got like electric as the first letter?

• 26:32Chuck Nice?

  Man, there you go. Gotta wake up early.

• 26:35Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Am I smart?

• 26:36Chuck Nice?

  Gotta wake up early. Gotta wake up early.

• 26:39Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I figured that one out.

• 26:41Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, no, that's super cool, man.

• 26:42Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Very, very cool. Well, thank you Chevrolet.

• 26:44Chuck Nice?

  And by the way, now that you bring that up, the cool thing about it is pretty roomy. EUV, five passenger, you know what I mean? Comfortable and, uh, and, and, and looks, looks good too. All right. We're not doing a commercial here, people. I'm just excited about the car. I'm sorry.

• 27:02Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I'm not getting in any car unless it's got legroom because my legs need some space. So just got legroom?

• 27:08Chuck Nice?

  Oh yeah, without a doubt, bro. Oh man.

• 27:11Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay.

• 27:12Chuck Nice?

  Stop making me gush over this car. Wait, by the way, this really is the future. I'm telling you right now, I'm so excited. I've been waiting for electric vehicles to come and be accessible to everybody and, you know...

• 27:23Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, but this, this show ain't about you and your electric vehicle. It's about transportation and travel and I have a special guest for that. All right. And it's, it's Dylan Thuras. Dylan is the host of Atlas Obscura. Atlas Obscura. And it's a show about travel and finding all the weird, wacky, cool things in the world that wouldn't show up in a normal Atlas. All right. Hence the subtitle Obscura. And in fact, I didn't even remember this until I said, Evan, why do I remember? And then Dylan, I, I own the man's book. The man has a book. With that title and came out a few years ago. And he didn't send it to me. I got this on my own accord.

• 28:04Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  It's a big fat book and it's beautifully illustrated and it's a discussion. It's a celebration of all things in the world that people do and participate in and worship and and visit. So I think if we're going to take electric cars into the future, people like Dylan are going to want to care about are they going to serve his needs. So Dylan, welcome to StarTalk.

• 28:29Speaker 02

  Hey Neil, thanks for having me and I'm thrilled that you had a copy of the book on the shelf. That's a delight.

• 28:34Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah.

• 28:34Chuck Nice?

  So Dylan, I'm going to ask you to send me a copy because unlike Neil, I don't buy books.

• 28:40Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  What?

• 28:41Speaker 02

  You got it Chuck. You'll get one with a with an autograph coming your way.

• 28:47Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So do you have questions about this this future of electric cars given given your professional life?

• 28:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, I do. So I I just went on an enormous road trip with my two kids, my four year old and my six year old. And we drove out to Minnesota and and back again.

• 29:04Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  From where? From where?

• 29:05Speaker 02

  To see my parents from New York, New York State and Minnesota. So 1,500 miles or whatever. And we.

• 29:11Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Wait, I have to ask. I have to ask. How soon did they say, are we there yet?

• 29:18Speaker 02

  Oh, that's that's the constant refrain. I mean, truly, it is like a timeless, ageless refrain.

• 29:23Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yes, yes.

• 29:24Chuck Nice?

  And it starts 11 minutes in.

• 29:26Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Chuck still says it when his wife is driving.

• 29:27Chuck Nice?

  Are you kidding me? Yes. And we're and we're only going to the market.

• 29:34Speaker 02

  My son follows along on the GPS and kind of tells us like, oh, you got to turn coming up. Like, what's the time say?

• 29:39Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Nice, nice.

• 29:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's integrated with the experience. But doing this drive, we were on the interstate. Then for part of the time, we took the back roads and you could see the ways that the highway infrastructure has changed the country over the years. And I'm curious about how you guys think that the Chevy Bolt and electric vehicles will will change that infrastructure going forward. How's it going to remake the landscape?

• 30:04Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So from what I've seen, early electric vehicles, let's go back, you know, 10 years or so, a little longer perhaps, they were really designed for just bouncing around town. They were small, they weren't very interesting to look at necessarily. And so you charge it up, you might get 100 miles on a charge or 60 miles, something like that. But that was plenty to just commute into town and come back home and charge up overnight. And so that had a little, it was a very niche market in the early days. And then people said, no, I want to, if I'm going to have a car and I'm going to switch over, I want to drive longer distances. And so, okay, that means you need bigger batteries, more batteries. This is not, okay?

• 30:47Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And so how many miles is good enough? Now, take a look at the map of the earth. And it's pretty well, quote, "settled" from coast to coast, unless you're in the middle of the Mojave Desert. And by settled, you can ask, how far away from you are you from the nearest reasonably-sized city? And I don't know that you could be more than 100 miles from any reasonably-sized city, no matter where you are in the United States. That's how populated we are across this country. So what I noticed was that early electric car folks and then third-party participants

• 31:26Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  to say, "Let's put charging stations with enough frequency across the country so that you can pull in and put it near a coffee shop or something. So you just take a break and top off your tank, your quote, "tank." So from what I've seen, and Chuck, what do you know about the charging network across the country right now?

• 31:46Chuck Nice?

  I am really, so the coolest thing which excites me is that there are 40,000-plus public charging stations that will allow you to plan your trip and then the car itself, and this is most exciting, this car has a range of nearly 250 miles, okay? On a full charge.

• 32:06Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, any two big cities near each other are closer than 250 miles. So, yeah, if you can get me between 240, 250 miles, I'm going, I'm going city hopping. I'm not in the car, right? As long as Northern Canada and Russian Siberia are not on your route, you can, you will never be farther away from a charge.

• 32:29Chuck Nice?

  What freak puts that on their route?

• 32:33Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Oh, okay.

• 32:37Speaker 02

  Sorry Dylan.

• 32:37Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay.

• 32:38Speaker 02

  That's alright, but uh, that's, that's interesting. One thing I was thinking about is, is you know, their electric vehicles are a lot quieter than cars and there's something called the Lombard effect, which is basically because of all the background noise, birds and frogs and other animals sort of have to shout and they change their pitch to be heard. And I wonder over time with a full switch to electric vehicles, if the, the soundscape will change, if they, they will start to revert to the norm.

• 33:05Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That's a great, that's a great question. So I've, I've thought a lot about this. So, almost the entire noise you're hearing from an electric car is the sound of the wheels against the pavement and, and the air moving over the, over the body. So, on a freeway, your car still makes noise. Uh, it's just not the noise of the engine. And lately, last decades, car engines, internal combustion engine, engines have gotten quieter themselves. So, you go back to the 1950s and 60s, you'd know a car is coming down the road when it's half, you know, practically a half a mile away. And you go really far back, like to one of the, you know, anything from the Three Stooges or the Keystone Cops, that the cars are like, you know, belching out things and popping

• 33:50Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  and, you know, and you're getting the backfiring of the engine. Yeah, yeah. So, that's just a comment about how much noise it makes. I can tell you this, that in an electric car, the, if you have a stereo system in there, it's way better, okay? Because there's, usually the stereo has to compete with the rest of the noises going on in the car. And so, it's more of a sanctuary, an acoustic sanctuary, that you can create under those conditions. And, yeah, you don't have to scream over each other in the car. But if you have two kids, I don't think they're thinking about that at all.

• 34:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, that wouldn't, that wouldn't help me. That wouldn't help me at all.

• 34:28Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, it doesn't, the quiet car doesn't make your kids quieter. I don't think that would work, it works that way. And by the way, Chuck, you said 40,000 charging stations. I can't even think where to put those. And if that's how many are out there, I, I think this is a non-concern for anybody.

• 34:42Chuck Nice?

  I, yeah, listen, if, when you look at the whole usage, you know, it's kind of purposeful, it's futuristic, but the technology is here right now and that's what make, I don't know who wouldn't want to do this, you know? Like, why wouldn't you want to do this?

• 34:58Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And, and Dylan, what, how long, I mean, that's a long road trip. And were, were you the only driver?

• 35:05Speaker 02

  No, actually, my wife does the majority of the driving. I didn't learn to drive till I was like thirty-four, and she doesn't trust me at all.

• 35:11Chuck Nice?

  So you're from New York.

• 35:12Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You're from New York.

• 35:14Speaker 02

  I, yeah, I wasn't originally, but I was here early enough that I basically never got around.

• 35:19Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, I think my kids are gonna turn out to be just like you, cuz they're, they're in their twenties, and they don't, they don't even wanna learn how to drive.

• 35:25Chuck Nice?

  My kids don't even call me dad anymore. They call, they call me Uber.

• 35:30Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  They call you Uber.

• 35:30Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, as soon as I walk in the door, my kids are just like, "Hey, Uber."

• 35:36Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Take me here.

• 35:36Chuck Nice?

  Take me here.

• 35:38Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, so, I guess this is a question for you, for you or for your wife. When you're on long stretches of road, that can get kinda monotonous, and you can end up drifting. Chuck, what's the latest on that, from self-driving cars?

• 35:51Chuck Nice?

  You know, the cool thing is...

• 35:53Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Do we get it from self-driving cars? What's up there?

• 35:56Chuck Nice?

  I gotta say that the cool thing about this car is that it does have a driver assist feature that allows you to kinda, if you wanna hang out with your kids, you can do that. You know what I mean? You can have a conversation, and...

• 36:09Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Chuck, we just agreed that's what an Uber driver is. That's a driver assist, so that you can play with your kids. You get a whole human being to do that. You're saying, "We don't need the human being."

• 36:19Chuck Nice?

  No, you don't, you don't need the human beings. You know, the technology is in the steering wheel, in the dash, and allows you to, it monitors your eyes, so it's not just a driver assist, it's a safety assist as well. Which, I kinda like that, you know, cuz I have young kids, as you know, you know, so...

• 36:38Speaker 02

  I think one of the things that's exciting to me about that is, is, you know, when you go off the interstate and you take the backroads, it's a much more interesting, exciting experience. You see so much more, you can stop at these little local restaurants. And the idea of maybe making driving a little less painful an experience, a little more free, I think it might free people up to take, basically, the, the backroad, and, and then do more of that stuff.

• 37:00Chuck Nice?

  That is so cool, when you say that.

• 37:01Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Interesting thought, interesting thought.

• 37:03Chuck Nice?

  I was thinking about that this weekend, because I have a motorcycle, and I drive backroads, right? And so, my wife goes with me, and as we're driving, I'm trying to look, because it's, it's beautiful. You're in this bucolic setting, I'm like, and she keeps slapping my helmet, like, "Ahead, ahead, look ahead." So it's the same thing, you know, with the Super Cruise, you know, technology, you could, that's a really great thought that I didn't even consider. Look around and enjoy.

• 37:29Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Note to StarTalk producers, please increase the insurance on Chuck's life, having just learned that he rides motorcycles on backroads. Okay.

• 37:41Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Never knew that about you Chuck until this moment.

• 37:43Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love, I love it, man. But you know, I can't wait till they get Super Cruise technology on a bike. So I can actually, so I can see where I'm going, I can enjoy it.

• 37:57Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So Dylan, so do you think, I mean, this is the kind of technology that you're going to be thinking about very seriously going forward?

• 38:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm really excited about the ways that the electric vehicles might change the driving infrastructure of the US and hopefully bring back some of the kind of small-town pit stops, maybe reduce the need for the amount of highway space that we have, and just kind of like make that sort of travel a more pleasant, integrated experience. You know, get everyone off the interstate a little bit.

• 38:28Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Not to put words in your mouth, but what you're saying is, driving shouldn't just be, "I have to get from here to there." Driving should be, "En route from here to there, what can I see?"

• 38:39Speaker 02

  Totally, totally. That's the only, as far as I'm concerned, that's the only way to travel.

• 38:45Chuck Nice?

  Hey Neil, you know, we're talking about hands-free driving, so just want to say, always pay attention while driving and when using the Super Cruise for compatible roads. And don't use any handheld device. And view chevrolet.com/electric/super-dash-cruise for compatible roads, which is super cool.

• 39:03Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay. Dylan, it's been a delight to have you on here. And the book is fun, and your show is even more fun, because it's a living version of these travel stories. And so, thanks for being on StarTalk.

• 39:18Speaker 02

  My pleasure. It was a real delight to talk to you guys.

• 39:20Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Excellent. This has been StarTalk, a segment where we focus on just the joy and the delight of what the future of electric cars might bring. Chuck, always good to have you here.

• 39:32Chuck Nice?

  Always a pleasure.

• 39:33Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And I'm Neil deGrasse Tyson, bidding you to keep looking up.

• 39:36Chuck Nice?

  Let me just say to anybody listening, if you're ready to make the electric future part of your present and get the ultimate travel vehicle, check out the Chevrolet Bolt EUV at chevrolet.com/electric. And by the way, take a virtual tour, you will not be sorry.