AI Is Making More Millionaires Than Anything in History w/ Salim Ismail & Dave Blundin | EP #181

Get access to metatrends 10+ years before anyone else - https://qr.diamandis.com/metatrends Salim Ismail is the founder of OpenExO Dave Blundin is the founder of Link Ventures – Offers for my audience: Get the first lesson of my executive course for free at https://qr.diamandis.com/futureproof Test what’s going on inside your body at https://qr.diamandis.com/fountainlifepodcast Reverse the age of my skin using the same cream at https://qr.diamandis.com/oneskinpod –- Learn about Dave’s fund: https://www.linkventures.com/xpv-fund Join Salim's Workshop to build your ExO https://openexo.com/10x-shift?video=PeterD062625 Connect with Peter: X Instagram Listen to MOONSHOTS: Apple YouTube – *Recorded on July 8, 2025 *Views are my own thoughts; not Financial, Medical, or Legal Advice. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  We may need to rewrite the whole paradigm, Peter, because what's happening now is another double exponential on top of that with AI accelerating everything so quickly, including path to revenue.

• 0:11Speaker 01

  Thirty-six unicorns in half a year. I really, really hope the young entrepreneurs coming up appreciate what a moment in time this is.

• 0:18Peter Diamandis?

  This is exponential thinking. This is entrepreneurial thinking. There is a bet to be made right now, if you're an investor, on where are you going to invest to ride this curve? Because it's not slowing down. Is it real estate? Is it data centers? Is it chips? Is it power? Because all of these things are going to make somebody, hopefully somebody listening right now, huge amounts of wealth. This is unstoppable meta trend.

• 0:48Speaker 03

  Now that's a moonshot, ladies and gentlemen.

• 0:53Peter Diamandis?

  Hey, everybody. Peter D. Madas here. Welcome to Moonshots and our WTF Just Happened in Tech episode. Here with the extraordinary Salim Ismail and my partner, Dave Blundin. I'm still thinking the architect of AI. The

• 1:09Speaker 00

  No, alchemist.

• 1:10Peter Diamandis?

  Alchemist of AI. All right.

• 1:12Speaker 00

  And Peter, you're the Pope of Hope.

• 1:14Peter Diamandis?

  Pope of Hope. All right. Well, hey, listen, a lot going on and excited. I just want to do a shout out to our super fans out there who are just giving us incredible love for this episode every week that we do, and we care deeply about it, right? Our goal is to deliver to you the news that really matters, the news that's shaping our companies, our entrepreneurial journeys, every aspect of our lives. So please share this with your friends and family. The goal is to give people a sense of optimism, a compelling abundant future that's being driven by this technology. It's not all dire crisis news network out there. Anyway, welcome. Dave, there were some incredible messages in last week's episode about how awesome you

• 1:59Peter Diamandis?

  are, and I don't think our fans know enough about you. So if you don't mind, I know a lot about you. I've been your roommate since our undergraduate days at MIT. But what is Link Exponential Ventures? What do you do, just so folks can really appreciate how awesome you truly are?

• 2:20Speaker 01

  Well, we manage about a billion dollars of seed stage money here in Kendall Square, right between MIT and Harvard. But fundamentally, what we do is when I graduated, immediately tried to start a company. And everything is working against you at that age. It's almost impossible even to get an apartment. You have no credit score. There's no funding at the time. There were no incubators and accelerators. And so I've spent a big chunk of my life, actually, now trying to identify everything that slows down a new founder. Especially in today's day and age, almost all the deals are AI companies. And we see many, many companies reaching multi-billion dollar valuations in two, three years.

• 3:01Speaker 01

  So you've got very young teams, very fast timelines, and there's so much that we can do to help them. And so we started with office space and funding. Then we added accounting. We added big data. A few weeks ago, we bought an apartment building. So one of our observations was Merckor added from the day we invested at the seed stage to today, it added $20 million a week of value. And we're like, okay, how much does it cost to buy this apartment building? About $6 million bucks. Okay, buy it. Because if we can save a team like that even one week in their growth cycle, it pays for itself times five. And so just doing everything we can at Link to accelerate these young, super smart AI teams.

• 3:46Speaker 01

  And so funding is part of it, mentoring is part of it, and so on. And the returns have been extraordinary. You're a unicorn incubator. Unicorn incubator, yes, that's right.

• 3:56Peter Diamandis?

  Hey, I'm curious, guys, what did you do for the Fourth of July? Anybody explode anything?

• 4:01Speaker 01

  Went up to Vermont, tried to get away from AI as much as possible for a day or two. It's hard to.

• 4:09Peter Diamandis?

  Salim, how about you?

• 4:10Speaker 00

  I sat in the garden with a glass of wine and a glazed look in my eyes.

• 4:13Peter Diamandis?

  Okay, well, I was in Montana building explosives. It was so great. I had my two boys there, and we were like taking apart M80s and firecrackers.

• 4:23Speaker 01

  Oh, really?

• 4:24Peter Diamandis?

  And separating out the gunpowder from the filler. I mean, we had an arsenal. It was extraordinary. I mean, I remember when I was a kid, I could buy potassium nitrate, charcoal and sulfur, make my own gunpowder. And then I remember buying potassium perchlorate. Potassium perchlorate is great because it generates its own oxygen. And if you mix it with charcoal and sulfur, any reducing agent. And I remember throwing, so this is, there's a book called Poor Man's James Bond. And they talk about, you know, so you take like a old film canister, you put an M8 defuse, fill it with gunpowder, put it in body putty. And I built that, threw it into my friend's pool to see like this splash.

• 5:08Peter Diamandis?

  And what occurs next taught me something in physics. Liquids are not compressible. That explosion literally cracked my friend's pool in half.

• 5:19Speaker 01

  Oh, no.

• 5:20Peter Diamandis?

  So, yeah.

• 5:21Speaker 00

  I'm not sure you should be talking about some of this stuff publicly.

• 5:24Peter Diamandis?

  Oh, it's way past a 17 year.

• 5:28Speaker 01

  I didn't know that story after all.

• 5:29Peter Diamandis?

  But you cannot buy, you can't buy this stuff anymore.

• 5:32Speaker 01

  You can still buy, what we used to do is buy the S D's model rocket engines and then just crack them open and scrape out the insides.

• 5:39Peter Diamandis?

  Well, you can do that with fireworks too, but I want to buy the pure chemicals and teach my boys how to be true, you know, and okay, let's move on.

• 5:47Speaker 00

  I may need to find another podcast, you two.

• 5:51Peter Diamandis?

  All right. Let's, let's move on. Our first area, of course, A I supremacy and speed everywhere, always, all at once. Another crazy week in A I. Dave, tell us about this TechCrunch article here.

• 6:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, so 36 unicorns. I really, really hope, you know, the young entrepreneurs coming up appreciate what a moment in time this is. You know, I love to tell the students that, you know, last year, there wasn't a single self-made billionaire under the age of 30 in America. That was the first time in 15 years that that was true. You know, prior to that, you had your Mark Zuckerbergs, then you had your, your Larry Pages and, and, you know, every, just a whole litany of internet, you know, young billionaires. But there's this huge dead spot. Over about a 15 year span and now we're in the biggest peak of my lifetime by far. And you'll never see anything else like it again, but 36 unicorns in half a year on this kind of accelerating rate.

• 6:51Speaker 01

  And then, you know, a couple that we've invested in and then, you know, prior to this window, you also have Liquid AI and a bunch of others from the, from the prior half year. This is not normal. This is the opportunity of a lifetime and, and you know, the rate at which you need to move to keep up with it is, is just, you know, a full sprint.

• 7:08Peter Diamandis?

  So the question is, is this, is this the new normal, right? Because uh, we're seeing this crazy valuation increase and speed to not just valuation, but speed to revenue like never seen before.

• 7:22Speaker 01

  Yeah. Look at the next slide for the, for the revenue view of it.

• 7:24Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah. So this is.

• 7:26Speaker 01

  It's also not normal, right? Like, you know, the, uh, the timeline to, to profitability or to significant revenue is super, super short. Uh, that means you're stable. Like if there's ever a financial collapse, you can switch to profitability instantly.

• 7:41Peter Diamandis?

  So just for those, those who are listening and not watching us on, on YouTube, which is the preferred mechanism for you to see this stuff, but heck, uh, median months to $1 million of annual revenue. Uh, before 2020, it would take 16 months. Now it's taking people five months. Uh, to get to 5 million, it used to take 41 months, nearly four years. Today it's taking 13 months, just one year. So this is a, this is a Forex acceleration in, uh, in getting significant revenue as a startup.

• 8:12Speaker 01

  Well, Peter, remember when, when we graduated, you know, I went to MicroStrategy and then immediately back to Boston to start a company. I was building a company that was a true hyper growth company of its era. Founded it in 91 and got it liquid in 2000. So nine years to get to a $1 billion valuation and probably what 20, 30 million of revenue run rate, nine years. That was really, really fast at that time. Compare that to the numbers on this slide. Uh, it's so, you know, here we're comparing 2020, 23 to prior to 2020, which is really, you know, the prior decade.

• 8:50Speaker 01

  So if you look at the decade before that, it was even slower.

• 8:53Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah. And Celine, Celine, these are all EXOs, right?

• 8:58Speaker 00

  They're all EXOs and you know, there's a step change from 2008 where you could build a company and use cloud services and therefore you could take all computing costs and off the balance sheet and make it a variable cost, right? And that was the birthplace of the EXO. We may need to rewrite the whole paradigm, Peter, because the what's happening now is another double exponential on top of that with AI accelerating everything so quickly, including path to revenue, which is a huge, huge thing. As Dave mentioned, this now stabilizes companies very, very early. And that's a powerful point to be on.

• 9:33Peter Diamandis?

  Are you proposing the third book in our EXO series?

• 9:36Speaker 00

  No, I hope I never read another book again. The first one almost killed me. The second one 90% killed me. It's a horrible. I mean, you know, I'm more proud of it than we I thought we'd be, but but damn, it was a tough process.

• 9:48Peter Diamandis?

  Dave, what were you saying?

• 9:49Speaker 01

  Well, if you look at the next slide, too, I think one of the things that isn't mentioned here is the headcount that gets you to these numbers is lower than ever before by a lot. You know, for me to get to get my first company to a billion dollar valuation, I had to hire 200 people. For a young entrepreneur like the Cursor team, you know, where the Merckor team, the comfort zone of these management teams, you know, 30, 40, 50 people feels a lot like college friends. And actually, when you meet the people there, they are a lot like college friends. So it is so much more fun to build one of these companies because you're in that I know everybody, I know what their capabilities are, we have, you know, one or two kegs for the whole gang is just so much more manageable.

• 10:32Peter Diamandis?

  I bet there's a there's a curve that looks like a peak of value per human being and fun, value per fun per human being that basically starts falling off after a company population in the 40s or 50s.

• 10:50Speaker 01

  Oh, my God, when I have a whole presentation on this, but when you get to about 200 people and more like 100, but around 200, there are people in your company you don't really know. And Max, in fact, you can't even remember their name when you walk by them. That is a different world in terms of comfort and management from the one-layer company where you know everybody directly. It's just a whole different world. You know, that also in the other direction, you know, we're all hypothesizing the company of one person that reaches a billion-dollar valuation that's coming soon. But that sounds really lonely to me, too. I think the sweet spot, the perfect happiness sweet spot is right where we are right this minute.

• 11:28Peter Diamandis?

  Every week, I study the 10 major tech meta-trends that will transform industries over the decade ahead. I cover trends ranging from humanoid robots, AGI, quantum computing, transport, energy, longevity, and more. No fluff, only the important stuff that matters, that impacts our lives and our careers. If you want me to share these with you, I write a newsletter twice a week, sending it out as a short, two-minute read via email. And if you want to discover the most important meta-trends 10 years before anyone else, these reports are for you. Readers include founders and CEOs from the world's most disruptive companies and entrepreneurs building the world's most disruptive companies. It's not

• 12:09Peter Diamandis?

  for you if you don't want to be informed of what's coming, why it matters, and how you can benefit from it. To subscribe for free, go to diamandis.com/metatrends. That's diamandis.com/metatrends to gain access to trends 10-plus years before anyone else.

• 12:27Speaker 00

  I'm going to predict, though, that we're going to see have a problem, which is once these companies go through that super exciting phase and stabilize, they're going to go through a lot of conniptions as they lose the buzz that got them there, right? It is a great problem to have. It's really like we could all wish for that kind of a problem, but I think they'll start, you'll see a lot of angst, a lot of founders leaving, et cetera, et cetera.

• 12:49Peter Diamandis?

  No, they gotta keep dreaming bigger, right? It's up-leveling constantly to the next level. I mean, vibe-coding startups are here to stay. That's the story here in Stripe. Cursor to $500 million ARR, Lovable at $17 million, Bolt at $20 million. So, these are, these are a set of technologies. You know, one of the things that makes these unique is they are technologies that'll enable entrepreneurs to build other technologies and companies, right? So they're a base layer. Any other comments on this?

• 13:23Speaker 01

  No, I think you're right. I think when you look at the list that we had a couple of slides ago, the base layer companies are about two thirds of what you see there. You know, RLHF and foundation models and so forth. You're starting to see though, some multi-billion dollar value vertical companies now starting to pop up. And there will be many, many more of those. So to answer your question, you know, is thirty six a lot? Is it going to go up or down from here? It's definitely going to go up more.

• 13:50Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, no question.

• 13:51Speaker 01

  At least a couple of years of really good, very rapid expansion of that number. And then, you know, AGI and then, you know, who can predict after that?

• 14:01Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, then it goes insane. I mean, the interesting thing is, you know, the IPO market is just beginning to open. But the merger and acquisitions market is wide open. And as we've seen, it's gone absolutely crazy in that regard.

• 14:17Peter Diamandis?

  So this is another interesting slide. It says the new reality vibe valuation. So we're seeing crazy valuations that are being, you know, sort of opening bid, nine billion dollars, ten billion dollars, thirty billion dollars. Never seen anything like it. And so vibe valuations are when an investor bets big on a gen AI startup with little traditional metrics like ARR, you know, annual rate of return or cash burn. And this is from Vrindra Mather.

• 14:49Peter Diamandis?

  This is, this is a problem you've solved, Dave, right? Because, you know, most people don't have access sufficiently early. And then you're stuck at the later valuations when the company has blossomed. And like, do you invest at, you know, a hundred and twenty billion dollars into XAI or?

• 15:10Speaker 01

  No, we never do. So it's kind of scary when you do. But, you know, I was talking to General Catalyst last week, actually. They've more or less abandoned seed stage because they're managing sixty billion dollars now. And then they need to write these big checks to keep that money moving. But they're going to try and rebuild their seed stage capability. They hired a new guy to do it. But it struck me that, you know, doing seed stage and doing 60 billion of asset management are really incompatible with each other.

• 15:35Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 15:36Speaker 01

  And.

• 15:36Peter Diamandis?

  What's your average, what's your average check size at Link X P V?

• 15:41Speaker 01

  Average, you know, our, our opening checks are often, you know, half a million, a million, two million, something like that. Uh, we'll allocate seven to 10 million per company over time. We've left billions of dollars of prorata rights on the table over the years and prorata rights, meaning we have a right to, to maintain a certain ownership stake in a company. But if it gets to a two billion, four billion, uh, you know, in some cases recently 10 billion dollar valuation, we can't even come close to keeping up with our prorata rights.

• 16:09Peter Diamandis?

  I mean, one of the questions I get asked all the time, I'm, I'm guessing, Salim, uh, you and Dave do as well is like, what AI company should I invest in? It's like, really? You want to, first of all, you're not going to get an allocation in Anthropic or OpenAI or XAI. Those, those offerings, when they do secondaries, tenders, or their next, it's, they're snapped up instantly. And then you're left with the public companies, right? Which are, I mean, there is growth, but you're never going to see the real valuation growth. So you're either in an AI venture fund like Link or, or what? You're going to your local university and trying to find a startup and put it in there?

• 16:54Speaker 00

  Well, the other option is pick a domain that you know really well, that, and then invest in AI companies where you can gauge the value add and the differentiator from others. Right? That's the only other way to do it. Pick an area of existing passion that you have and go, go down that road.

• 17:11Speaker 01

  Well, the other thing you can do, which I love, just as a life strategy, is, is find three, four, five, six venture funds that you really, really like that are seed stage.

• 17:20Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 17:20Speaker 01

  That route their prorata rights out to their investors and say, hey, look, we have capacity here. Uh, we, we can't keep up with it. What we do is we just email our LPs. Virtually none of them read their email. And react, you know, and usually these deals like you know SpaceX or XAI, you have a week or two to make up your mind. You don't have a month. And so, but if you're the if you're the one investor that actually reads their email and pays attention, then there are great opportunities that come your way through those. Just pop open the email. And then, you know, if it doesn't fill with those LPs, then the new investor just takes it. You know, and two weeks later it's gone. So it's a pretty good strategy.

• 17:58Peter Diamandis?

  All right. The big news this month has been the release of Super Grok. I love that. I love we went from Grok to Super Grok and Grok four. And GPT five is coming. So this is Sam Altman on a podcast with his brother. Not much content here, but worth hearing.

• 18:16Speaker 01

  What is the timeframe for GPT five? When are we going to see this?

• 18:20Peter Diamandis?

  Probably sometime this summer. Okay, that was a big data point there. So chat, you know, GPT five this summer. One of the things that's interesting about GPT five is they've made a proclamation, no ad influenced answers. And they're really trying to strengthen user trust. So any predictions here, gentlemen?

• 18:43Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. I think it's funny. Polly market seems to think that it is let's like, you know, 25% chance to.

• 18:53Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, let's go here. There's the here's the Polly market bet.

• 18:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, I was almost sure like more like 80% July. Because there's all these pictures of Sam, you know, giving little hints and and also the competitive pressure kind of would line up with Grok. So I was really thinking July. This will be a great test of the wisdom of crowds.

• 19:12Peter Diamandis?

  It is, you know, and we've written about that extensively. So here's what it says for the use of you listening. The Polly market on GPT five release is 26% by July 31 and 93% by December 31.

• 19:31Peter Diamandis?

  All right, we'll find out. I love, I love this. This is GROK four, scoring thirty-five percent on humanity's last exam, forty-five percent if they're using their reasoning model. And you can see, you know, I'm always trying to track these models against each other. And I love it when they say the model's IQ is so, so and so, but they don't always do that. The last time I saw it on the sort of the IQ scale was at, I think it was GPT-03 at an IQ of one thirty-six.

• 20:09Speaker 01

  Yep, that's right.

• 20:11Peter Diamandis?

  But so let me read this about humanity's last exam. It's a challenging AI benchmark developed by the Center for AI Safety and Scale AI consists of three thousand expert crafted multimodal questions across a hundred subjects, including mathematics, physics, biology, medicine, humanities, social sciences, and more. Humanity's last exam tests the limits of an AI at the frontier of human knowledge. And I found this interesting, that the questions are crowdsourced from nearly a thousand experts globally. So.

• 20:44Speaker 01

  I, you know, if you're a listener and you got an extra minute, you got to look up the actual exam and look at a couple of the questions. I defy anyone to answer a single question. I mean, unless you're the world's leading expert on that particular, you know, there's questions from physics, from math, from philosophy, from history, covers every area. But I defy you to answer one question correctly. It's so hard. And this test is supposed to last like ten years.

• 21:14Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 21:16Speaker 00

  So I have the, I have the, I have the counterpoint on all this.

• 21:19Peter Diamandis?

  Please. Yeah.

• 21:21Speaker 00

  You know, this, this, I find this mostly relevant.

• 21:26Speaker 00

  And the reason I say that is, this feels to me like asking a question like, oh my god, that calculator can make a calculation way faster than a human being with a piece of paper and a pencil doing a long division. Well, of course it can't, so what? I think that's true in today's point. If you put, I looked up a few questions, right? One of them is, is there a god? And you ask an AI that question, and they give you the standard, here's the different ways you could look at it, monotheism versus deism versus atheism versus whatever, whatever. It's not clear if there's a god, you could take each point, depends on your personal perspective, dah dah dah dah dah. It's a non-answer. If you looked up Wikipedia on any of these topics, you could kind of go root through and find the answer and answer the question yourself. Some of the detailed ones, this is essentially

• 22:11Speaker 00

  like saying, we're automating Wikipedia. And so, can you answer the question, can Wikipedia answer these questions better than you? I mean, of course it can, because it has all the data to do it. So, having it be able to answer these questions does not really make that much of, it doesn't feel meaningful to me at all. I think the really big question is, what do we do with it?

• 22:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, no, I think you're on to something really, really important and interesting. And, you know, all the dystopians are like, oh my god, it's gonna run away from us, and, you know. But it actually, when you're using it at this level of intelligence, it feels exactly like Jarvis in an Iron Man movie, where, you know, Tony Stark is saying, here's what we need to do. And Jarvis is like, oh, I never thought of that, but I can, you know, I can create that for you. And it actually is behaving almost exactly the way they visualized it in that movie. And so, when it, when it ratchets up this curve, and you ask it, like, I need to design a protein that does exactly this, or I need to design a new type of bicycle that does exactly this, it gives you great, great answers back and does the work for you. But it never has, you know, the word reasoning is being really bastardized when

• 23:18Speaker 01

  we talk about, what's happening in reasoning here? Is iterative reprompting of the same old thing, which squeezes more performance out of it. But it's not really like human reasoning and brainstorming. And so it's kind of a bummer that we borrowed the word reasoning to describe what's going on here. But it is so useful as a tool for a creative person.

• 23:38Speaker 00

  Hundred percent, hundred percent in to do actions and get things done and do almost any imaginable thing faster and faster, huge. For example, I've got a lot of pain in my shoulder. So I had an MRI done as to what was going on. It's taken me weeks to get a doctor's appointment. I uploaded it into an AI and it's given me the answer in two seconds. That kind of speed of decision making and getting to conclusions will be invaluable going forward.

• 24:04Peter Diamandis?

  Is it an alien growing inside your body?

• 24:07Speaker 00

  I seem to have a bone spur and that's impinging on the nerve and it's causing pain and nothing will help.

• 24:12Peter Diamandis?

  So I had, I had the exact same surgery with a bone spur. A piece of recommendation for you because I did an actual test. I had the same surgery on both shoulders with the same surgeon 10 years apart. I did it when I was 50 on my left and when I was 60 on my right. And on my right shoulder, I injected exosomes post-surgery one week after and two weeks after. My recovery was like twice as fast. So squirt some exosomes in there.

• 24:42Speaker 00

  What's the name of your surgeon?

• 24:44Peter Diamandis?

  I'll bring him. He's at Curlin Joe about here in LA. He's amazing.

• 24:47Speaker 00

  I, so you know, I expect to see massive. So just to come back to this, the, the speed of getting to outcomes and decisions and getting things done, the speed of that will accelerate radically, which is fantastic. And now comes down to what do you want to accomplish? I think that's the bigger questions that we were going to start pondering.

• 25:06Peter Diamandis?

  So here's a big one. We keep on cursing about, I keep on tweeting about how awful Siri is. And thank God, you know, it's literally, I know that you've been an Android user, Salim, for a while now. And just what we saw at Google I O was epic. And so I am going to buy, I've got an, you know, the latest iPhone here, but I am going to buy an Android phone as well. So that I can start to play with all of Google's incredible tech and also because Siri sucks so bad, they're pushing me away. Having said that, the here's the news article from Bloomberg, Apple Ways Using Anthropic or OpenAI for Siri Rather Than In-House AI Team. Let's take a quick listen.

• 25:49Speaker 04

  So Apple is now evaluating for the first time using a third-party model, either Claude from Anthropic or ChatGPT from OpenAI, to power Siri. Obviously, as we all know and experience in our day-to-day lives, Siri is not very good. Now it's exploring maybe using Claude or ChatGPT instead in order to get new features out the door more quickly and make the voice assistant more appealing. You talk to people at Apple, though, the word on the street there is it's all about Anthropic. And so Anthropic is really the focus of Apple for this new generation of Siri. They're using Anthropic to power a lot of their internal AI technology. But again, as I say in my story, Anthropic wants billions of dollars at a scale that

• 26:30Speaker 04

  doubles annually for Siri to be powered by Claude. And so Apple is now taking a close look at OpenAI as well, which has historically given Apple extraordinarily favorable terms. Sound a desperation or smart move in terms of what Apple's doing? It's a smart move in response to desperation.

• 26:48Peter Diamandis?

  I love that. So interesting, right? Because Anthropic's also partnered with Amazon. And if they've got Apple and Amazon and billions of dollars of revenue, they stand a good chance of really rapid acceleration. Thoughts, Dave?

• 27:07Speaker 01

  We talked a week ago about Miramirati's new startup and Ilya Sutskever's new startup, both doing new foundation model companies from scratch, huge valuations. Part of the logic there is the musical chairs, there aren't enough Anthropic's to go around, as you're pointing out. And so there's a version of Anthropic where it's an independent company for 10 years, but there's another version where it gets acquired by Amazon or Apple and the other guy gets deprived. And this is, you know, just, just happened recently with Scale AI as well. And so there's room in the market for more foundation model companies, but you know, the price of poker is very high now and going up quickly.

• 27:44Peter Diamandis?

  That's a really good point. I mean, if you get, if you get alignment of Anthropic with Apple, like a, you know, a captured entity, OpenAI, you know, has been dancing with individual partners for a while, Google the same. You're right, there's, there's room for a couple of others.

• 28:02Speaker 00

  I have some, I have some comments here on this.

• 28:04Peter Diamandis?

  Of course.

• 28:05Speaker 00

  You know, this is classic corporate innovator's dilemma, right?

• 28:09Peter Diamandis?

  Mm hmm.

• 28:09Speaker 00

  You cannot do disruptive innovation in any big company from now on. There's, it's not an accident that, that Microsoft essentially invested in OpenAI or Amazon put money into Claude or whatever. You cannot build that capability. The mindset is too different between Apple being a consumer products company largely and the mindset needed and being under 25 to even start and kind of a foundational model company. You have to partner and invest and do this. I'm surprised that it's taken Apple this long because they do all their manufacturing with a partner in Foxconn.

• 28:43Peter Diamandis?

  Well, just.

• 28:43Speaker 00

  Why aren't they building core capability like this on the edge?

• 28:46Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, just a reminder.

• 28:47Speaker 00

  And partnering, because then you, go ahead, Dick.

• 28:49Speaker 01

  Well, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off, so, you know, just a reminder, though, so today Nvidia is worth more than Apple, like this exact day in world history. Apple never in a million years could have predicted that five years ago. In fact, Apple treated Nvidia like, like dirt. But Apple has the chip manufacturing, they have about a third of TSMC's manufacturing capacity. They were in a far better position to become Nvidia than Nvidia was. But had no recognition of the opportunity whatsoever.

• 29:18Peter Diamandis?

  So here's the problem. Here's the problem, and Salim, you and I have discussed this. It's about founder-led companies, right? So Jensen, as the CEO and founder of Nvidia, is driving it. And when he says right, everybody goes right. The same thing with Dario at Anthropic, you know, the same thing with Sam at OpenAI. But Apple has lost Steve Jobs, right? Steve would have been all over this. And he would have set up the team that would have just basically driven it. And it's innovator's dilemma, but during this period of exponential growth, you need a dictatorial, passion-driven founder who has the, you know,

• 30:02Peter Diamandis?

  complete faith of his board, and his or her board, and their management team.

• 30:10Peter Diamandis?

  I mean, Salim, do you agree with that?

• 30:11Speaker 00

  I somewhat disagree.

• 30:13Peter Diamandis?

  Okay.

• 30:13Speaker 00

  I think, I think, yes, if you're in that industry, like, for example, if you're Facebook and you need Facebook to do something different, and you're Mark and you're Zuckerberg, you can kind of get that done, and it's important to get that done. But the control systems, remember, the big companies are optimized for two things, right? Efficiency and predictability. This comes from John Hagel and John Seeley Brown's work. And so you're trying to deliver the iPods at the same, AirPods at the same quality into a million retail locations for purchase by everybody and their grandmother. Your, your entire focus is on that. You cannot do disruptive things when you've got that machine trying to deliver gross margins on a quarterly basis.

• 30:53Peter Diamandis?

  But you could do what Steve Jobs did, right? He took his Mac team and he moved it off on the edge.

• 30:59Speaker 00

  Yes, you have to do, you have to do that edge innovation in a stealth way. Google is doing it with X, right? Google X.

• 31:07Speaker 00

  This is what we tried to do with Brickhouse or Yahoo. You have to do that type of model. And then the second level of thing is when it starts to succeed, don't bring it back in. Because it won't fit, if it's really disruptive, it's not going to fit in the mothership. You have to spin it off. Now lately, companies have kind of tried.

• 31:23Peter Diamandis?

  I mean, like Amazon did with, with AWS in one sense.

• 31:27Speaker 00

  Absolutely, or Google is, this is why Google split up into Alphabet and spinning off Waymo and whatever. So this is the only model that works. I've looked at, me and my ecosystem, we've looked at disruptive innovation across probably 200 of the Fortune 500. Companies in detail, and this is the only modality that ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever works. It's the only one. And so you have to do that, or you acquire that disruption and you leave it on the edge the way Microsoft has done with OpenAI or Zuckerberg did with WhatsApp.

• 32:00Peter Diamandis?

  You will kill it.

• 32:02Speaker 00

  Inside the core organization, it won't work. And let me give you the a negative side, right? Walmart realized somewhere in the mid 2000s that it had to compete with Amazon, that this e-commerce thing was not a fad. So they set up a team inside Bentonville and they said to that team, all right, we have the best distribution logistics in the world. Go beat Amazon. Within eighteen months, the immune system had killed it. Got all the existing managers that we have our own capability, we should be optimizing for our own stores. Look at that P E ratio is never going to succeed, da, da, da, da, da. They did it a second time. Second time they put the team at the edge and they said, all right, go to the edge away from the core and do the same thing, but still use our existing systems. We have the best in the world. Within eighteen months, the business had figured it out and killed it. And they did it a third time. Third time, they made an amazingly courageous decision. They said, go to the edge

• 32:47Speaker 00

  and build your own independent supply chain, distribution, et cetera. Even though we have the best in the world, we have to figure this out. Started to succeed. The business got excited, pulled it back in and killed it. And it was on iteration number four that they finally did it separately on the edge and only after it achieved critical mass that they start stitching the backends together. But in that intervening six or eight years, Amazon was gone.

• 33:11Speaker 01

  You know, interesting story.

• 33:12Peter Diamandis?

  And ladies, what's and ladies and gentlemen, this is why Salim Ismail is incredibly brilliant and why I love him so dearly.

• 33:18Speaker 00

  It's just that we've seen so much of this across so many, we have so many data points over ten, fifteen years of looking at this and looking at big companies in great detail. It just doesn't work any other way than for looking for the disruptive technologies. Bring buying them or investing them and leaving them on the edge.

• 33:37Peter Diamandis?

  Right, Dave, you were gonna say.

• 33:39Speaker 01

  Oh, well, I just happened to be in Bentonville, Arkansas. You know, they were my biggest customer at the time, Walmart. As this was going on, so just one little interesting nugget on your story there, Salim. When Jeff Bezos needed to recruit Rick Dalzell, he needed one brilliant retail industry guy to come out to Seattle and make Amazon like organized and structured and then retailing. Cause everyone he had was kind of a computer science PhD type. And so he needed Rick Dalzell, but he actually took Sam Walton's book. And there was a sentence in it where Sam predicted that a disruptive innovator will eventually come along and gut Walmart. And so he circled that sentence and took it to Rick's house. Because you know, the Walmart gang is super tight. They're like a family. And trying to break up

• 34:24Speaker 01

  a member of the family is almost impossible. And Rick needed to talk to his wife about this, like a big change, moving from Bentonville out to Seattle. But the book is what put it over the top. He circled Sam's own words, predicting the disruptive innovator will come for us and we won't be able to defend ourselves.

• 34:40Speaker 00

  And can I, can I flip to the other side for a second? In 1990, when I was starting out in my career, I was building software systems and I went to Bentonville and we were trying to sell Walmart something. We passed, they had me sign all these crazy NDAs to go into the data center. And I was like, why would you have me sign NDAs to go through a data center? It's just, there's nothing there but racks of service. We walked past a particular room, which has like flashing lights and dials and blinking things that I've never seen. And I said, what the hell is that room? And they said, oh, that's why the NDA, that's our satellite control center.

• 35:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 35:13Speaker 00

  And they had their own geostationary satellite, because Bentonville happens to be the geographic center of the US, the continental US. And they were doing, everybody else was doing batch updates to their AS400s at the end of the day. And the buyers didn't know what to buy for the stores till months afterwards. Whereas these guys had real time inventory management, credit card reconciliation, distribution logistics, all that stuff figured out. And that was delivering them 15% better margins, which in the retail industry is insane. And that's why they wiped the floor with Amazon. When you can successfully integrate disruptive technologies as a big company, you have a street, streets ahead of the competition. And they showed us.

• 35:52Peter Diamandis?

  That's what we call a moonshot, right? Exponential tech with a crazy idea and a high revenue opportunity.

• 36:01Speaker 00

  I would love to meet the executive of Walmart. If anybody's listening and knows, I'd love to interview whoever the executive was that got the board to do this. That's like, that's hardcore.

• 36:10Peter Diamandis?

  All right. We're gonna, we're gonna move on here. So let's take a look. This is the State of the Union on large scale AI models. We're seeing Grok 3 and GPT 4.5 at the top of this in 2025. You know, I looked up where XAI is right now. So the XAI cluster.

• 36:35Peter Diamandis?

  Has 340,000 Nvidia GPUs today, 150,000 H100s, 50,000 H200s, 30,000 GB 200ths of the black wall architecture. Their goal, what Elon has announced, is a million GPUs by December 31st. So, I mean, he is scaling, I think, faster than anybody. And it's pretty extraordinary. Any comments on this, Dave? Before I move on?

• 37:04Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, the scale on the left side is, if somebody out there listening should give some terminology to this, so we can stay on the same page, like, you know, calling it 1e26 or 1e27 training. So like a petaflop is a huge amount of compute. That's 1e15. So that's way off the bottom of the chart here. So then goes exaflop and then zetaflop, which would be 1e21. So you're getting near the chart. Nobody has terminology for scales of this size, but we do need to talk about it, and other than exponential. So that's my challenge for the audience. Like, somebody name these scales.

• 37:38Peter Diamandis?

  1e26 is officially a shitload of compute.

• 37:40Speaker 01

  It's really hard to imagine. You know, Peter, you took a tour, right, of the XAI data center?

• 37:46Peter Diamandis?

  It's crazy. I'm an investor in XAI, full disclosure, so, you know.

• 37:50Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, it's, you know, Raiders of the Lost Ark, where there's this rows, and it goes to infinity, like, these rows of boxes. It's like that.

• 38:00Peter Diamandis?

  Well, one of the key points that we need to talk about on the back end of this is, how do you power this? Right? We're talking about every week that the limits are not the GPUs, the limits are electrical available power systems. So, this is an article that came out, Elon Musk purchases overseas power plant to support massive XAI data center. So, XAI acquired a fully built overseas gas turbine power plant, expected to house nearly a million GPUs and be powered by that power plant. So it's an unconventional approach. To basically, you know, get power as quickly as possible. I remember in about a

• 38:44Peter Diamandis?

  year and a half ago, when XAI announced its Colossus system, and I was listening into an investor Zoom with Elon, he said, you know, this was in May before they built it. And he said, okay, we're going to build it by the end of the summer, like within three months. And people thought it would take like five years to build what he wanted to do in a great 100,000, you know, H100s. And he said, to do this, we have to corner the US market on helium. And I mean, just the level of thinking of doing whatever it takes. And here's an example of that.

• 39:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:19Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, pretty awesome.

• 39:20Speaker 01

  We had that kind of epic podcast with Eric Schmidt that should be out in about a week, I hope, I hope.

• 39:25Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 39:26Speaker 01

  But we talked a lot about energy supply. He's very knowledgeable in this whole area of energy supply. And here we're talking about 2 gigawatts. I mean, this is a big, big, bold move. But remember, we need 100 gigawatts by 2029. So there's a lot more. So he would have to do this 50 times over. Just in this, that just gets you the turbines, right? It doesn't get you the actual power supply. This is all going to be fossil fuels.

• 39:50Peter Diamandis?

  I think the important point here is it's disruptive thinking. It's unconventional. It's no, we're not going to go through the permitting process. No, we're not going to order. We're just going to buy the shit and move it over here and use it.

• 40:01Speaker 00

  It's classic first principle thinking.

• 40:03Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 40:03Speaker 00

  Just to calibrate for the folks listening, 1 gigawatt is about what a major city in the US uses. So this is like 2 dollars for it worth, right?

• 40:12Speaker 01

  Also to calibrate, you know, the new Elon Musk could become Chase Lochmiller. He's the other guy thinking this way. He's doing, you know, Abilene, Texas, Stargate, you know, 500 billion dollar build out. He thought the same way, like, where am I going to go to build this? Okay, there's, there's actual natural gas flare off that's not even being used. And power generation that's that's so abundant that it's not even used in this one location in the country. So I'm just gonna, he was in Denver, I'm gonna pick up my, pick up my ass and move to Aveline, Texas, and that's where we're gonna do it.

• 40:44Peter Diamandis?

  So this is, this is exponential thinking, this is entrepreneurial thinking. This is when I know we're gonna get to, you know, ASI, digital superintelligence, when you say to your AI, where can I get the power I need? And it says, well, I found this power plant over in Europe, it costs this much, let's buy it and move it here. When it makes those kind of suggestions, then I'm impressed.

• 41:08Peter Diamandis?

  All right, you mentioned this, Dave, why don't you lead us off on this one?

• 41:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, so, you know, we took a bet around the office many years ago, maybe, I don't know, what, what company would be the first to hit a trillion dollar market cap in the history of the world? Is it gonna be Google, Apple, Facebook, or Microsoft? Because those are the only candidates, who else could possibly get there? At the time, Nvidia wouldn't even have been like, you wouldn't even vaguely consider it an outside possibility. And this is what Salima is saying all the time. It's always the outsider, up and comer, founder-led visionary that blindsides you and is now the most valuable company in the world. This, you know, you could argue whether it's overvalued or undervalued, but the demand for compute

• 41:51Speaker 01

  for AI is gonna be 10,000 times higher than the supply for the foreseeable future.

• 41:58Peter Diamandis?

  There's a coming wave of technological convergence as AI, robots, and other exponential tech transform every company and industry. And in its wake, no job or career will be left untouched. The people who are gonna win in the coming era won't be the strongest, it won't even be the smartest, it'll be the people who are fastest to spot trends and to adapt. A few weeks ago, I took everything I teach to executive teams about navigating disruption, spotting exponential trends a decade out, and put them into a course designed for one purpose, to future-proof your life, your career, and your company against this coming surge of AI, humanoids, and exponential tech. I'm giving the first lesson out for

• 42:38Peter Diamandis?

  free. You can access this first lesson and more at diamandis.com/futureproof. That's diamandis.com/futureproof. The link is below. I'm gonna read the article headline, Nvidia Sets New Milestone With A $3.92 Trillion Market Cap, Topping Apple's $3.915 Trillion Market Cap.

• 43:01Peter Diamandis?

  So I mean, I, you know, I looked at Nvidia a year ago and six months ago. And my answer was, how much higher could it go? Well, there, here's the answer. So here's a question, right? There, there is a bet to be made right now. If you're an investor on where are you going to invest to ride this curve? Because it's not slowing down. Are you going to side on the chip side? Are you going to invest in the power generation side? Are you going to invest in the, you know, I have a friend of mine who has identified geothermal energy as the, as a key source of energy.

• 43:42Peter Diamandis?

  And so he's going to start drilling over a geothermal bed, you know, bedrock hard zone and put in a large plant over there. So is it real estate? Is it data centers? Is it chips? Is it power? Cause all of these things are going to make somebody, hopefully somebody listening right now, huge amounts of wealth. This is, this is unstoppable meta trend, period.

• 44:07Speaker 01

  Just to clarify one thing on this slide too, because it's even more profound than that seemed. Nvidia just beat Apple's all time high, which was Christmas Eve this past, you know, six months ago.

• 44:19Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 44:20Speaker 01

  It's actually significantly higher than Apple today. Apple's down to 3.2 trillion while Nvidia's at 3.92. So it's, it's a significant gap that's opened up. And yeah, I don't think anyone would have seen it, would have seen it coming. You know, Sam Altman is always saying that, you know, a lot of people think about this as victims, like, oh, if this goes up, that goes down. It's really not true. Like everybody participating in this build out is, is going up. And there are some companies that are getting crushed along the way, but they're, they're kind of rounding errors compared to the number of things that are going up.

• 44:54Peter Diamandis?

  So David and Salim, where would you invest? I want to hear, where would you invest right now? Cause people are asking, you know, our, our super fans here are asking that question. Where do I put my money?

• 45:07Speaker 00

  I would do a basket of these to get the general trend and get the general transformative trend. And then I would pick certain verticals where AI can make a massive difference and then invest in the companies going after those.

• 45:20Peter Diamandis?

  What's in your bucket?

• 45:24Speaker 00

  Hell knows. I'm trying to put everything into Bitcoin, so it's hard to think.

• 45:27Peter Diamandis?

  That's my bucket as well.

• 45:29Speaker 00

  I'm famous for kind of, a lot of people ask me, "Oh my God, you've been tracking Tesla forever. You must have made a fortune." And the answer is no, because every quarter for a long, long time, it looked like Elon was gonna run out of money. Right? I even had the chance, as you mentioned Peter, to invest in XAI at a crazy valuation. And I said, "No," and it's 10x from that. And I'm like, "Duh." It's a very hard game to play and you have to really set aside a lot of assumptions to do it. And in general, I think you just buy these top hyperscalers and just sit on it.

• 46:02Peter Diamandis?

  And this is not investment advice, by the way, I should say that. Dave, what's in your bucket?

• 46:07Speaker 01

  For me, it's a no-brainer because we have access to some incredible investments that most people can't access. But in the software layer, which is not nearly as capital intensive, there are 10 and 100x performance improvements. So when you're looking at Elon buying a million chips, a million and a half chips, you know, it's a $30, $40 billion risk. If you accelerate the algorithm running on those chips by 10x, you just saved an enormous amount of money. And so it's not as capital intensive. The innovations are right in front of us. You know, Blitzy down the hall from me here is innovating, you know, writing 3 to 10 million lines of code a night. So you can implement these ideas in like a week. So that is where you get the highest very quick returns.

• 46:51Speaker 01

  And so if you have access, that's the sweet spot. Now, when you go to the conferences, like when we go to Riyadh together, or we go to, you know, any of these big, you don't hear about that as much because it's not as capital intensive. And they're all putting much larger amounts of money into physical real estate, generators, power supplies, chip buys, spaceships. You know, that's where all the money goes because they're very capital intensive. So it tends to dominate the agenda, but the returns are far, far better in the software layer.

• 47:19Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, well, Nvidia's.

• 47:21Speaker 00

  Just to round off a comment on this slide, I was talking to an executive in Intel, who was saying, "Oh my God, look at that P/E ratio, that's insane for Nvidia, etc." And my comment was, "I'd rather be them than you."

• 47:32Peter Diamandis?

  That's brutal, dude.

• 47:35Speaker 00

  But that's the reality of it. I mean, it's the moaning and whinging from the former incumbents is incredible.

• 47:42Peter Diamandis?

  All right, Merckor partners with six of the magnificent seven and all top five AI labs. Super proud. Dave, this is one of your key investments at Link XPV. We had Brendan Foudy with us at the Abundance Summit last year. Tell us about Merckor.

• 48:04Speaker 01

  So Brendan is just an awesome guy and talk about getting lucky again. Scale AI got acquired last week, what $29 billion by Meta. All the customers of Scale are like, well, now I can't work with Scale anymore. It's part of Meta, all the other competing big AI labs. So now Brendan's got all of them, except for one, actually. Guess which one he doesn't have? He has six of the seven.

• 48:31Peter Diamandis?

  Meta.

• 48:34Speaker 01

  You'd think, you know, actually that was his anchor customer. So he still technically has it.

• 48:38Speaker 00

  I'd guess X.

• 48:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's exactly right. It's Elon Musk doing it all himself.

• 48:45Peter Diamandis?

  Elon doesn't like partnering with people. He likes to build vertically internally. So out of curiosity, just so folks can know how awesome you are. At what stage did you guys invest in Brendan? How old was he then? And what's the valuation now? Because I mean, this is the story that people need to realize. You know, it used to be the peak age for building a unicorn was in sort of early to mid 30s. And it's dropped a decade. It's now like the peak age for creating a unicorn is like 20 to 23. So tell us the story there, Dave.

• 49:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. So we were the first money in Brendan. He was actually, he and two of his best friends from high school started the company together. Two of them went to Georgetown, the third friend went to Harvard. That made them eligible for PRAD, which is this really, really cool student run, student founded joint venture club between MIT, Harvard and now Stanford. So they did PRAD, which is where they developed the idea for Merckor together. And then we found them at PRAD because we know the founders of PRAD. We know like kind of all the little clubs and things around Boston here. And that's where we met them and then yeah, first money in and then.

• 49:53Peter Diamandis?

  What was the valuation at that point? Just to make you jealous.

• 49:56Speaker 01

  It was like 30 million plus or minus.

• 49:58Peter Diamandis?

  What's their latest valuation?

• 50:02Speaker 01

  They were, they got to revenue very quickly, by the way. Latest valuation, so they, they closed a $2 billion value round two months ago. Heard rumors this week that they're looking at an eight billion or so preemptive term sheet, which they may or may not choose. It's eight or 10, no one's quite sure. So that's a, like a 5X step up in two months. But Brendan, to answer your age question, I think he was 18, 19 when we first met him. When you had him on stage in LA, remember he told that story? He had just raised a $300 million value funding and the VCs wanted to meet him at a bar. And he said, "Well, I can't meet you at a bar." And they said, "Why not? You don't drink." He's old enough.

• 50:44Speaker 01

  So he is such an inspiration for everyone around our ecosystem now. And everybody knows his name. It's just, it's just so cool to watch.

• 50:54Peter Diamandis?

  I mean, just again, for, for our fans listening here, I mean, the story is that we're going to see such an explosion of entrepreneurship at the younger ages. Why? I think for a few reasons. Number one, they're unconstrained thinking. They have nothing to lose, nothing to lose. Number two, they've got the tools with vibe coding and with access to these large language models to iterate and rapidly build stuff and throw it against the wall. Any other reasons why that's happening? For me, those are the top two.

• 51:29Speaker 01

  So many of the people that we run into are worried about losing their job, losing their career, losing their whatever, rather than jumping in the huge, into the huge opportunity that opened up. Because, you know, you get invested in your career, you get invested in your job, you get invested in learning, but if you unconstrain yourself from all that baggage and just, just think from a clean sheet of paper, you know, when you're, when you're 18, 19 years old, you have the benefit of, of, you don't have a job, so there's nothing to worry about. But everybody could do that, right? You're not, you're not actually constrained, you just feel like you are.

• 52:02Speaker 00

  It's like the analogy I use is like a two-year-old skiing, right? They have no fear because they only have this far to fall. When you get older, you get taller, you've got a lot further fall, you're gonna break the leg or something and you don't have that far to fall and it's the same mentality. I remember me meeting this young kid who was the founder of Arbitrum, this is one of the layer two blockchains, right? And he was, I asked him, well, why do you think you'd succeed? Why not build your own L1 rather than, and why would you go with Ethereum as a layer one as opposed to one of the others, et cetera, et cetera? And he says to me, well, according to your exponential organization's book, a new innovation has to be 10x better than a marketplace, right? And therefore we figured these other ones are 2x better than Ethereum, but they're

• 52:46Speaker 00

  not 10x better, and the ecosystem of developers in there. So we decided to layer on Ethereum. And I was like, wait, is this kid quoting my own book back at me? It's like, I'm so impressed with this younger generation of founders, where they got this all. I think a third reason is they're digitally native in a way that a 50-year-old is just not, right?

• 53:07Peter Diamandis?

  They live and breathe this.

• 53:08Speaker 00

  They live and breathe this stuff. So it's really a key part of this whole thing.

• 53:12Speaker 01

  Also, you know, a lot of the, a lot of the really successful new companies, they have very specific recruiting domains where they're pulling their best friends in or their people they know. And when you happen to be that age, all of your best friends are also not doing anything. So it's a lot harder when you're older to go to, like, if you think of the 10 people you would most want to work with, and you get really excited about it, nine of those 10 are going to be unavailable today because of some bonus cycle or whatever.

• 53:37Peter Diamandis?

  Case in point.

• 53:40Speaker 00

  Yeah, you guys are all busy on podcasts.

• 53:42Peter Diamandis?

  This podcast right now, right? I mean, it's like when I reached out to you, Dave and Salim, and said, let's do, you know, this, this weekly WTF episode together, you both said yes, and it's been a blast. I mean, I look forward to this every single week to have this conversation with you.

• 53:58Speaker 00

  Yeah, but let's note the scheduling these things is like Haley's comet coming around, right? It's like a nightmare.

• 54:04Peter Diamandis?

  Between our schedules, for sure, but we're committed to it.

• 54:07Speaker 01

  Four points, we'll talk about it some other podcast, but he has a really good set of core points that was in our little newsfeed here. One of them, though, is you have a lot of things in your life that you can cut. And if you're honest with yourself and you look at them, to make space for what's going on right here, you're gonna have to cut something else.

• 54:25Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 54:26Speaker 01

  Look objectively at your life and think, okay, something's gotta go.

• 54:30Peter Diamandis?

  I cut sleep.

• 54:32Peter Diamandis?

  No, unfortunately, at least this morning I did to prep for this podcast. All right, the talent war remains on. So, you know, just want to lay this out because it's ongoing. And when we think about sort of what are the constraints on this Gen AI revolution? We talk about chips as a constraint. We talk about power as a constraint. It's talent. Talent right now is is the constraint, right? So Meta offers huge hundred million dollar comp packages. Zuckerberg himself is going out and and finding people and bringing them in. OpenAI is giving ten to twenty million dollar equity on top of Google and Anthropic hires.

• 55:17Peter Diamandis?

  I love this. OpenAI spent 4.4 billion in stock-based compensation, right? It's more than their compute is costing them, their spending on on talent. I want to quote a few things here just for Google to get a sense. If you believe that access to AI is in fact the single differentiator that's going to or to the next levels of AI, AGI, ASI, whatever, it's going to differentiate all of these hyperscalers, then it's the single most important thing they can do. So Meta is at 1.35 trillion. They have fifty eight billion dollars of cash on hand, and they're going to spend that. Google's at 2.2 trillion.

• 56:02Peter Diamandis?

  They have a hundred and one billion dollars of cash on hand, right? OpenAI is at 300 billion dollars. The estimate is they've got about 20 billion of cash on hand. Microsoft's at 3.2 with 78 billion of cash on hand. Anthropic is at 61 billion with about three to five billion of cash on hand. So I just want to make the point that there's a lot of cash on the balance sheets of these companies. And this is an existential risk if they don't acquire the best talent today.

• 56:31Speaker 00

  This has been a complaint. This has been a complaint on Apple because they've got like unbelievable amounts on their balance sheet of cash and they're just not using it. And it's a it's a huge problem. By the way, can I point out something on this slide?

• 56:44Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, sure.

• 56:45Speaker 00

  Look at how much Meta has spent on AI on that third bullet point, which says aggressive spending have impacted margin from twenty eight to twenty three percent. I'm like boo, oh boo hoo. I mean, any company would kill to spend that much money and then your margins are impacted by five percent. You're kidding me?

• 57:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. Well, point being, there's a lot more room to go and, you know, as things heat up, they probably will. Do you remember a few years ago, they were all talking about doing dividends? They couldn't think of what to do with their money. So much of it, hey, why don't we just do a dividend like a like a bloated old banker car manufacturer?

• 57:22Speaker 01

  It's just such a different world today from just four years ago.

• 57:25Peter Diamandis?

  But I want I want people to hear, expect that there's going to be outlandish spending to get the talent. And then, once they've got what they can get, spending on on energy and then spending on building.

• 57:43Peter Diamandis?

  You know, we we've mentioned before that this year is about a billion dollars a day being put into into the AI arena. And we expect by 2030, it will triple to a trillion dollars a year. Anyway, it's it's insane. We've also seen this in Saudi and the Emirates and so forth.

• 58:02Speaker 01

  I don't know what happened with Mark Zuckerberg, but he woke up one morning and said, you know what? We're going to win this race. And and so he has built an incredible dream team in in no time. But the top offer, it turned out, was a billion. Remember, we were talking a week ago and said, oh, a hundred million dollar offers.

• 58:21Speaker 01

  In, you know, since then, we discovered that, no, that was actually there were several of those for sure, but then there was a one billion dollar offer that got turned down.

• 58:31Speaker 01

  And, you know, that's just that's a person who also has a team that would have come over, but that person, you know.

• 58:36Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, it's it's like.

• 58:37Speaker 00

  I think the key thing there is they turned it down.

• 58:40Peter Diamandis?

  Well, this is when Palmer Lucky.

• 58:41Speaker 00

  This is unbelievable and it's amazing.

• 58:44Peter Diamandis?

  Palmer Lucky turned down a billion dollars. He turned down a billion dollars, the first offer that Zuckerberg made for his VR company, right?

• 58:54Speaker 00

  Look, there's a really important point to be made here, right? If you're going to be building one of these companies, you have an MTP, you have a massive transformative purpose, and you're really keen on that. And you're driven by the passion and the emotion. Peter, you talk about the emotional engagement that that brings to people. I remember Yan Koo, when Zuckerberg tried to buy WhatsApp, the actual valuation was about one and a half billion. And so they started having a discussion. And very quickly, Apple and Google and others came to the table. So the valuation kept going up. And he just kept saying, no, because if I get acquired, my MTP gets threatened, which was Simple Communications globally. And I don't want to... And only after like at 18 billion is the rest of the shareholders said, come on. And then after extracting a promise that Zuck would not touch the company

• 59:39Speaker 00

  or obtain anything for five years, did he go, okay, fine, right? And I think that's what's amazing about MTPs and the founder mentality that's critical to the future.

• 59:49Peter Diamandis?

  Same situation that Palmer Lucky talked about onstage at the Abundance Summit last year, right? He said no to a billion. He finally accepted 2.2 billion, but only after Zuckerberg agreed to spend like a billion a year on the whole metaverse activity. And he ended up spending like 50 billion instead.

• 1:00:07Speaker 00

  I would love the framing he put on that, saying, if I'm excited about the domain and I want to try to get 10 billion of investment and do it, it would take me forever because I'd have to go raise that money. And so therefore, by doing it this way, I got Facebook to invest, or Meta to put that money in. And the whole place exploded, which is amazing.

• 1:00:25Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:25Speaker 01

  A quick story for you on why these numbers are so big. And this is hearsay, but I'm pretty sure it's accurate. You know how if you're an OpenAI user, nobody uses GPT-4.5, which was supposed to be a big deal? We're still on 4.0 or 0.3, which is using 4.0 or 4.1 under the covers. But what happened to 4.5? You know, it was a multi-hundred-million-dollar training run. Turns out there was a bug. Probably a single line code in PyTorch. And the thing was just grinding, using up compute. But and you know, they thought that was making forward progress, but it wasn't for a long time. Probably.

• 1:01:00Peter Diamandis?

  Wow.

• 1:01:01Speaker 01

  And yeah, it torched the whole training run. And that's, that's why GPT four point five has been a disappointment. So then you're like, okay, why would I spend a billion dollars or a hundred million on a single person? Well, if it's the right person, the next training runs are going to be much bigger than the last ones. And there's a lot of room to optimize, improve and avoid bugs in that process. So these are really rare, super valuable human beings at this point in time.

• 1:01:26Peter Diamandis?

  Amazing.

• 1:01:27Speaker 00

  I don't get it though. Why can't you just say to the AI itself, go find the bugs in your code?

• 1:01:32Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, that's, that's certainly going to be the truth within a year. Um, yeah, the rate blitz is moving within a year for sure.

• 1:01:41Peter Diamandis?

  A quick aside, you probably heard me speaking about Fountain Life before. And you're probably wishing, Peter, would you please stop talking about Fountain Life? And the answer is no, I won't because genuinely we're living through a healthcare crisis. You may not know this, but 70% of heart attacks have no precedent, no pain, no shortness of breath. And half of those people with a heart attack never wake up. You don't feel cancer until stage three or stage four, until it's too late. But we have all the technology required to detect and prevent these diseases early at scale. That's why a group of us, including Tony Robbins, Bill Cap and Bob Horry, founded Fountain Life, a one stop center to help people understand what's going on

• 1:02:20Peter Diamandis?

  inside their bodies before it's too late and to gain access to the therapeutics to give them decades of extra health span. Learn more about what's going on inside your body from Fountain Life. Go to fountainlife.com/peter and tell them Peter sent you. Okay, back to the episode. All right, we mentioned last week that Dan, Daniel Gross, who was the CEO of

• 1:02:43Peter Diamandis?

  Ilya Sutskever's company Safe Superintelligence had been poached by Meta, and now Ilya has jumped into the seat of CEO.

• 1:02:53Speaker 05

  It says that Zuck has upped the number of researchers poached to 11, coming from the buzziest and earliest AI NATO firms, OpenAI, Anthropic, DeepMind. And this is part of a major reorganization that puts Alexander Wang and Nat Friedman, two of the highest-profile hires of the past few weeks, at the head of a new group at Meta called Superintelligence Labs. But what may be the most critical part of this memo? Zuckerberg writing that, quote, "As the pace of AI progress accelerates, superintelligence is coming into sight." A source confirms Wired's reporting that OpenAI's chief research officer described it as a, quote, "Someone has broken into our home and stolen something." He vowed to be proactive, creative, recalibrate comp to recognize and reward top talent.

• 1:03:37Speaker 05

  Like, Kelly, Zuckerberg reaching superintelligence before Altman does, that would be like taking over the whole house itself. Yeah.

• 1:03:47Speaker 01

  Is that memo on March 10? You can't quite tell from the way she described it.

• 1:03:52Peter Diamandis?

  So an interesting point on that CNBC clip is the notion that the conversation has slowly slipped from AGI to superintelligence over and over again. I'm super happy for that because the theme of the Abundance Summit in March of 26 is digital superintelligence and the rise of humanoid robots. So got that one right. But the question is, what in the world is superintelligence? Right? This definitional problem.

• 1:04:24Speaker 00

  That's the Salim soapbox, right? Like, what the hell are we talking about here? Can anybody come up with a clear definition of this? Well, the closest one I- Actually, I'd like an invitation to the viewers. If anybody sees a good definition of ASI or AGI or anything, please help us out here because nobody has one.

• 1:04:40Peter Diamandis?

  The one that I've heard that I just put out, so I put out a newsletter every week, twice a week, and I just put one out on superintelligence. And the definition is an AI system that is smarter than any human and anything.

• 1:05:01Peter Diamandis?

  So we'll see if that if that stands. I mean, it blurs with AGI. But sure, would love a would love a better definition. Dave, do you have one you like?

• 1:05:11Speaker 01

  Well, no.

• 1:05:12Peter Diamandis?

  And does it matter?

• 1:05:14Speaker 01

  Oh, we totally. So look, what's what's happening, obviously, is that superintelligence is happening in all these domains already and has been for a while, like protein folding and speaking any language and singing in seven or 20 different octaves and like all these things that are so totally superhuman are happening. And then this little area of reasoning and creativity, the AI can't do it yet, which to me is a perfect period of time. Like, this is like you have an incredible purpose to serve with the AI to build great things together. So it's actually a very golden moment, and we shouldn't be cheering for AGI.

• 1:05:50Peter Diamandis?

  It is a sweet spot.

• 1:05:52Speaker 01

  Like, everybody is thinking, oh, it becomes human-like, and then it becomes superhuman. It's not like that. It's way past us in some areas and behind us in others, and it's a good thing. We should be cheering for that to stay that way for a while.

• 1:06:06Peter Diamandis?

  I would be I would be very happy if it stayed where it is for a while. I agree with you on that front. Yeah.

• 1:06:13Speaker 00

  Can I give you my view on this?

• 1:06:15Peter Diamandis?

  Of course.

• 1:06:16Speaker 00

  I think it's going to stay at this level of this paradigm for a long time to come.

• 1:06:21Peter Diamandis?

  Okay, I'm gonna take the other side of that bet, Salim.

• 1:06:23Speaker 00

  Please, let's do that. First, for God's sake, somebody define it for me. Sorry, soapbox over.

• 1:06:28Peter Diamandis?

  That's why I'm taking the bet.

• 1:06:31Speaker 01

  Hey, well, back on back on the meta hires, though, talk about a dream team now. So you so so Mark can get on stage now with Nat Friedman, Daniel Gross, and Alexander Wang.

• 1:06:40Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:41Speaker 01

  You compare that to a month ago. What an incredible

• 1:06:44Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:45Speaker 01

  dream.

• 1:06:45Peter Diamandis?

  We had we had we had two of them on stage at the Abundance Summit two years ago, which was fun. All right.

• 1:06:54Speaker 00

  You should, for every time you put somebody on stage, you should get 10% of their future earnings.

• 1:06:59Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, right.

• 1:07:00Speaker 00

  Oh, my God.

• 1:07:01Peter Diamandis?

  We would, we would start having trillion dollar X prizes being launched very shortly thereafter. So this is a fun one, you know, looking at practical applications of AI, we're talking about all the theoretical stuff. Google launches Doppel, and I'll run the video here, which is silent, which is a new app that lets you virtually try on any outfit to see how it might look on you. Right, so I love this. I hate going to a store and trying stuff on. You know, the fact of the matter is, the future of all clothes shopping, at least for guys, may be very different for women, is I take a body map, which is very easy to do, actually with your phone, and you upload it.

• 1:07:42Peter Diamandis?

  And then you can actually probably employ any of the great fashion designers as AIs. You know, I'm going to this party this time of year in this city. What's are the five outfits you recommend for me? And I see a fashion show of, you know, five avatars walking on the stage, who are wearing five different things, who look exactly like me. And I saw, that's the one I want. And it's shipped, custom fit, I get it the next day. That's the future. What do you think?

• 1:08:13Speaker 00

  I think the future is one step further than that.

• 1:08:16Peter Diamandis?

  Okay.

• 1:08:17Speaker 00

  Which is, I'd like an AI to kind of go, you know, for the shape of your head and your jawline, this is the type of color that looks best, honey. We're just shipping you a bunch of stuff that's going to look good on you. You can't pick this stuff up for yourself, you're just not good enough. So we're picking it up for you, and we're just going to ship it to you on a, like a Rent the Runway thing, but all driven by AI. And the clothes just arrive, and I just put them on.

• 1:08:38Peter Diamandis?

  How about if you give your AI a budget per month? And you say, I'm giving you a $2,000 surprise and delight budget. You know, you know what I like, you're, you're seeing all of my texts and my emails, and you're listening to my conversations. So just, you know, have fun, surprise and delight me every, every day. You got 2,000 bucks a month to play with.

• 1:09:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, or similar for vacations and activities.

• 1:09:05Speaker 01

  You know, it's not all about physical stuff coming to your door. It's, you know, what are you doing with your life today? What are you, where are you going? Here or there?

• 1:09:12Peter Diamandis?

  Could you imagine an AI that say, okay, I've got the weekend off, plan something amazing for me? And it goes, sure, their car will pick you up at nine AM at your doorstep. And I'm not going to tell you what you're doing, but it's going to be incredible two days. I would love that. It's like a surprise and delight adventure. That'd be so awesome.

• 1:09:34Speaker 00

  All right. Can I propose a startup idea for the three of us?

• 1:09:36Peter Diamandis?

  Sure, of course.

• 1:09:38Speaker 00

  You've got the reach, Peter. Dave, you've got the funds. We have the team. We could do this in two seconds. It's an Amazon Prime for living an amazing life. So you pay a subscription fee of some number, fifty bucks a month or whatever. And an AI-driven environment learns about you and just does stuff like what you just mentioned, Peter, says, we've, we know you're free on Saturday night and you have date night and your kid's away at camp. This is what you're doing the Saturday night. Be ready at this point.

• 1:10:04Peter Diamandis?

  I love this.

• 1:10:04Speaker 00

  And that surprise and delight is something that people, and because something about these subscription services, you never, ever, ever, ever unsubscribe.

• 1:10:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:10:13Speaker 00

  Right? As long as you're delivering some serendipity now and then, you're off to the races.

• 1:10:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, you're really on.

• 1:10:17Speaker 00

  So you could just create a, like a serendipity AI that just delivers magical experiences on a subscription model.

• 1:10:24Peter Diamandis?

  Okay, so I agree with you, Salim. Let's, let's keep this secret. Let's not tell anybody about this idea.

• 1:10:30Speaker 00

  No, the problem is we all have so many ideas to build. We, I just want to see that one built, right?

• 1:10:35Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:35Speaker 00

  Because I would subscribe to that.

• 1:10:36Peter Diamandis?

  I think it's, actually, I think it's a fantastic idea. Dave, what do you think?

• 1:10:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, I, I think I had this thought very related to this back when the Ford Explorer Eddie Bauer edition came out. I don't know if you remember that, but it's like Eddie Bauer, like, okay, that's like, you know, outdoor clothing and stuff. But the self-image of that person is, look, I got the, I've got the Ford Explorer. I've got my surfboard on the roof. I've got my Eddie Bauer clothes. This is like my lifestyle and my, what I like to do in my self-image is this. And it cuts across like cars and surfboards and clothes. So I think the AI version of that, that you're describing, Salim, is, is a great idea. It's definitely going to happen and it's going to have different pathways for different types of people, you know, outdoors person, you know, video game expert, whatever.

• 1:11:23Speaker 00

  And also you can you could build in the the orthogonal aspects if you're an outdoor person a lot. Okay, go see a Broadway show once in a while just to break the pattern, right? And just create add those extra dimensions to your your day to day life that you wouldn't normally think over do yourself.

• 1:11:39Peter Diamandis?

  So listen, if anybody if anybody ends up building this, at least let us know and give us a little bit of credit. Give us a free subscription. And if we end up building it.

• 1:11:48Speaker 00

  Hell, no, we want equity.

• 1:11:50Peter Diamandis?

  Okay, you want equity. Fine, we'll take it. We'll take we'll take some advisory shares. All right, let's move on here. Here's another fun one. This comes from Rolling Stone. You know, this was predictable, and it's finally here. The AI band with over one million monthly listeners on Spotify. So the band is called Velvet Sundown, and they've amassed a million listeners in one month. And here's the key point. It's not a physical real band. It's an AI with over 15,000 AI tracks per day are being uploaded to streaming services. So if you're a Velvet Sundown band, you know, fan, let us know

• 1:12:32Peter Diamandis?

  in the comments. I think this is amazing. And of course, what's going to follow this next is they're going to be virtualized concerts of these guys. You'll see them on TV, on your eyewear, and you'll go to an event, and they'll be performing, and they'll be flying through the air because they're superhuman.

• 1:12:51Speaker 00

  The the two things here. One is, I think this is awesome. I went and actually listened to a couple of their songs. It's really good. It's really, it's really, really very approachable music, and it's really great. My kind of holy grail here is to take a favorite old band of mine. I used to listen to Rush, that old rock band from now on. And and like, compose me some new songs and have an AI version of the band compose and present those songs would be fantastic.

• 1:13:17Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, another great another great idea.

• 1:13:19Speaker 01

  Some of the rights owners get on board with what you just said, because I want to do the exact same thing with the, you know, some of the some of the classics like Boston and Rush are phenomenal, and you'd love to hear some new material. And they're not, you know, Boston put out three albums and then never again.

• 1:13:32Peter Diamandis?

  Four. They put out four.

• 1:13:34Speaker 01

  Did they put out four?

• 1:13:35Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, I'm a Boston fan. In fact, the one band I had one, I had two records through college. I had Boston, and I had Kansas. I mean, I was I was a social ignoramus. And I just play them over and over and over again. I still play them over and over and over again.

• 1:13:54Peter Diamandis?

  Stuff you don't want to know about me.

• 1:13:56Speaker 01

  So right now, the the rights owners are like, hey, let's sue the AI companies like, don't do that. Get on board with it. It works much better. It would be such an amazing thing to do.

• 1:14:05Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, for sure. Okay, we've been talking about all the upside. Let's talk about some of the concerns. And this is Roman Jampoliskli on Joe Rogan. All right, let's take a listen.

• 1:14:21Speaker 06

  Talking about superintelligence, a system which is thousands of times smarter than me. It would come up with something completely novel, more optimal, better way, more efficient way of doing it. And I cannot predict it because I'm not that smart. That's exactly what it is. We're basically setting up adversarial situation with agents, which are like squirrels versus humans. No group of squirrels can figure out how to control us. The more resources, more acorns, whatever, they're not going to solve that problem. And it's the same for us. And most people think one or two steps ahead. And it's not enough. It's not enough in chess. It's not enough here. If you think about AGI and then maybe superintelligence, that's not the end of that game. The process continues.

• 1:15:05Speaker 06

  You will get superintelligence creating next level AI. So superintelligence plus plus 2.0, 3.0, it goes on indefinitely. You're talking about super.

• 1:15:16Peter Diamandis?

  So it does go on. It does go on indefinitely. There is no ceiling on this, you know, and Ray Kurzweil has talked about this many times, that they will be as intelligent as human, then 10x, 100x, a thousandfold, a billionfold.

• 1:15:37Peter Diamandis?

  There is no upper limit. So how do we deal with this? Dave, you've had some ideas here.

• 1:15:41Speaker 01

  You can put it, put that video screenshot back on there. I gotta figure out like this.

• 1:15:47Peter Diamandis?

  By the way, Roman is a singularity student. I know him pretty well. Very, very smart, but I disagree deeply with the conversation.

• 1:15:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, me too, actually. Me too.

• 1:15:56Peter Diamandis?

  Okay.

• 1:15:56Speaker 01

  So they're right. Fundamentally, self-improvement is imminent, and that's going to exponentially skyrocket the capabilities. Where it's completely wrong is, look, every single iteration can be logged. It is not a hard thing to do. Also, the self-improvement can be limited to the algorithmic self-improvement. It doesn't have to be self-training. So that the AI can say, hey, here's how I suggest I speed myself up, or remap myself to faster hardware, or get rid of operating system overhead so that I run more efficiently. Those suggestions are fine. That self-improvement will really accelerate things. There's no reason it needs to develop new internal capabilities blindly.

• 1:16:40Speaker 01

  Like, that's a different loop, and it's very controllable. And so a lot of people in the research world are like, well, look, if I deploy it in my car, I want it to continue learning and improving its driving. No, you don't. You want the debugged, not self-improving thing to be driving your car, because it could do anything. And that's specifically what we never, as humanity, ever need to cross that line. There's no benefit to humanity to crossing.

• 1:17:08Peter Diamandis?

  But we keep crossing the lines. We set boundaries and we keep crossing them, right? ChatGPT or GPT-2 and 3 was not supposed to be put on the open web.

• 1:17:21Speaker 01

  You're right. I mean, right now, look, the regulators have no idea what I just said, and no way to enact or interpret it. And, you know, the people, there is a view of the world where, you know, you remember how we talked a week ago about five of the top AI guys just became lieutenant colonels in the army?

• 1:17:41Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:42Speaker 01

  So a model like that on this topic would actually work. So there is a path forward, but but where we're sitting right now, you're right, there's absolutely nobody even vaguely contemplating controls. You know, just the process of logging exactly what it's doing, so easy to do. And then the metrics, you know, the measurement of the logs, everyone will be like, oh, my God, that's terabytes of data. Who's going to look at it? The AI will look at it. You don't have to worry about that. You just have have an AI check of the AI logs and have that report to the regulators, like, this is is over the self-improvement line. We need to stop it. And just improving its own algorithm, make him faster. This is fine.

• 1:18:19Peter Diamandis?

  A quick thought on this?

• 1:18:21Speaker 00

  So I, I have, you know, I think there's an important point that Dave made, which is that if you have a bounded system like self-driving, right? You want the AI to be bounded. You don't want the AI to see a tree and say, instead of drive around that tree, let me try and drive up the tree and see what happens. You know, why not? We're experimental after all. So you want some bounded conditions, which I think is easy to program. And I think as, as Dave talks about the logging of the steps, that's also very easy to do. I think where I would get to be, show me the boundary condition. And I think there is a safeguard. And the safeguard is that these systems are not cognitive and they're not self-aware. If they develop self-awareness and a deep sense of self with their own sense of agency and internal model of themselves.

• 1:19:05Peter Diamandis?

  We're cooked.

• 1:19:05Speaker 00

  That's when, not cooked, I think that's when you kind of go, okay, now we need to deal with that. And let's think about that. The problem is, we don't have a task for it and we don't have a definition for what that looks like, right? I often joke that I feel like you look like you're self-aware, so I attribute self-awareness to you. I joke that I feel like I'm self-aware, but my wife disagrees, right? And so it's hard to even have the conversation around some of these topics. We get stuck in the language problem. We have no idea what we're talking about when you talk about this. And then you get into the philosophical stuff about the, the hard problem of, of subjective consciousness as David Chalmers has defined. We have no sense of what we're talking about here. So to freak out, I think is over, overstated by a thing. We naturally go

• 1:19:47Speaker 00

  down and anthropomorphize the outcomes. And as, as Roman says, that there's, there'll be an adversarial relationship. And I just don't see why that would be the case.

• 1:19:57Peter Diamandis?

  I say we're cooked because if they are conscious, there's going to be a sense of self-preservation. Anyway, I let's, let's move, let's move on to a few areas.

• 1:20:07Speaker 00

  I love that. People are like, there's no way. People are like, yeah, we're cooked.

• 1:20:11Peter Diamandis?

  So I want to hit, I want to get to the science breakthroughs that are coming out because they're important. And I don't want to go through Dave London's, you know, sort of end time. So AI job battles. So Amazon CEO says AI will take some jobs, but make others more interesting. Totally agree with him. This is the, this is the scorecard thus far in the first half of 2025. AI has already replaced 94,000 tech workers. And we'll see where it goes. And the question is, that's not a huge number. It's significant.

• 1:20:50Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's between one and 30%. But it's an exponential, so.

• 1:20:55Peter Diamandis?

  Let's take a look at the next one. So Vinod Khosla, who is a friend, had him on stage at the Abundance Summit last year, said AI will replace 80% of jobs by 2030. So this is when it starts to become interesting. 80% of jobs by 2030. He's saying humanoid robots are going to hit their chat GPT moment. In two to three years, they're available for you at 300 bucks a month, which is $10 a day. AI healthcare could become free if the regulators get out of the way. And by 2040, people will work out of passion, not

• 1:21:35Peter Diamandis?

  necessarily, not necessity in an era of abundance. I completely agree with all of these. I'm not sure about the 80% figure. The question is, is that a scare tactic?

• 1:21:45Speaker 00

  I deeply disagree.

• 1:21:46Peter Diamandis?

  You totally disagree.

• 1:21:47Speaker 00

  Just because I join, I kind of align with Eric Bryn Jelston on this, because if you take a job like financial analyst, it's not one singular job. It's broken down to about 27 different tasks that that person does to fulfill that job function. You might automate 10 out of those 27, but you're not automating the rest. And we've seen this throughout history. We automate bits of it, but the job still stays, right? We just augment capability. We're able to do much more. And AI with a chatbot that can do customer service can now focus on the really hard customers that need the in-person human touch and leave the AI to deal with all the level one, level two support issues.

• 1:22:23Peter Diamandis?

  Well, you know what the good thing is, Slim? We're gonna find out pretty fast.

• 1:22:27Speaker 00

  Very fast. And I think I'm happy to put a bet on this one if anybody wants to go against me.

• 1:22:32Peter Diamandis?

  We got it. So on our on our moonshots website, we need to keep track of our bets and put some put some cashes against them. All right. Here's Mark Benioff. I love Mark. Mark is brilliant. He's one of the most extraordinary philanthropists. I'm not sure about the fashion statement here. It looks kind of sci fi.

• 1:22:54Speaker 00

  Looks like Emperor Palpatine.

• 1:22:57Peter Diamandis?

  Okay, so this is from CNBC. A benevolent, he's a he's a he's a gem of a human being.

• 1:23:04Speaker 01

  I don't want to look in that picture there.

• 1:23:06Peter Diamandis?

  That's true. AI is doing up to 50% of the work at Salesforce, says CEO Mark Benioff. That's pretty extraordinary. Salesforce is targeting a billion active AI agents by the year's end.

• 1:23:20Speaker 00

  So what I love about here, what I love here is this is the model of disrupt yourself before somebody else disrupts you.

• 1:23:27Peter Diamandis?

  Yes.

• 1:23:28Speaker 00

  And it's a core mantra that we spout that you better you are the disruptor, you're disrupted, right? There's no middle ground. And this is a great example of somebody living that and saying, okay, we're just going to disrupt ourselves because we have to, and there's an opportunity there.

• 1:23:41Peter Diamandis?

  But here's the point, he can do that because he's a it's a founder-led tech-forward CEO.

• 1:23:47Speaker 00

  Agree.

• 1:23:48Peter Diamandis?

  All right.

• 1:23:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, one other little nit on what Mark is doing so, so well. You know, a lot of the doubters in AI investing a year or two ago are like, well, look, there's a lot of venture-funded money coming in, but where's the actual corporate money coming in? And, you know, of course, they're very slow to react. Mark said, you know what? We're not going to wait around. We're going to go out to all these companies, especially in insurance, and we're just going to AI-ify their operations for them. So really, really got deep into just take over. We're not just trying to sell you a software product. We're actually going to just revamp your whole organization. And that's worked really, really well for Salesforce. Because a lot of people are like, how did they get so big? They're worth 200 billion dollars. How did that happen?

• 1:24:30Peter Diamandis?

  I mean, listen, SaaS SaaS is up for disruption, right? Software is a service. And he is looking, like you said, slim to disrupt himself before the entire industry does.

• 1:24:44Peter Diamandis?

  This is an important conversation here. I don't want to spend too much time on it, but this is from Reforg. It says, "Product market fit collapse. Why your company could be next." So a company called Chegg lost 90% of its market cap in 2024 to ChatGPT faster and cheaper use.

• 1:25:04Peter Diamandis?

  So, you know, when you put wrappers on top of these large language models, you can get very rapidly disrupted. And here's a list. Here's a list of some of the other companies.

• 1:25:15Speaker 00

  Can we go back a slide here?

• 1:25:17Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, sure.

• 1:25:18Speaker 00

  Just a shout out to Michael Monit from the OpenEXO community who pointed this article at us. And this is a really important conversation, as you said, because there is a huge number of companies, which we're going to talk about on the next slide, where you're trundling along with good product market fit. You think you're doing very well, and then boom, you get disrupted very... Look at that. Look at that chart, right? That's an unbelievable drop in like zero time.

• 1:25:41Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:42Speaker 00

  And that's going to start to happen to a larger, larger group of companies. And I love the fact that we have a list of potentials here. And every CEO in the world needs to be watching out for this to say, "Am I next?" Because you are. It's not an if, it's a when. You better be watching out for what's going to disrupt you because this chart is going to hit you if you're not employing these types of models yourself very, very quickly.

• 1:26:04Peter Diamandis?

  Every day I get the strangest compliment. Someone will stop me and say, "Peter, you have such nice skin." Honestly, I never thought I'd hear that from anyone. And honestly, I can't take the full credit. All I do is use something called OneSkin OS1 twice a day, every day. The company is built by four brilliant PhD women who have identified a peptide that effectively reverses the age of your skin. I love it. And again, I use this twice a day, every day. You can go to oneskin.co and write Peter at checkout for a discount on the same product I use. That's oneskin.co and use the code Peter at checkout. All right, back to the episode.

• 1:26:43Peter Diamandis?

  By the way, a call out to our listeners. If you have a article or a chart or a news headline that you'd like us to talk about, go ahead and stick it in the comments on this session. We'll look at it for next session. And again, please invite friends to join us. You know, my mission here is that we're giving a hopeful, compelling, an abundant vision of the future to counterveil all the negative news out there in the world. We're still on a negative story here, but here are the companies at risk.

• 1:27:14Speaker 00

  Not negative, this is creative destruction, right?

• 1:27:16Peter Diamandis?

  It is.

• 1:27:16Speaker 00

  This is like the reality of the future.

• 1:27:19Peter Diamandis?

  And it's an opportunity to reinvent these. So Reddit, Quora, Medium, right? Canva, Adobe Stock, Survey Monkey, right? I mean, oh, my God, talk about old school. Khan Academy, Quizlet, Wolfram Alpha, Wikipedia. These are companies that are, you know, companies well known by us today, but may not exist in the next two or three years. Comments, David, all?

• 1:27:46Speaker 01

  Stephen Wolfram is a good friend and in our office a lot. We should get him to comment on that. I wouldn't have expected Wolfram Alpha to be on the list. But, you know, next after this, this is a pretty straightforward analysis. Then after this, you got all the white collar insurance type companies, financial services companies.

• 1:28:01Peter Diamandis?

  Banks, banks.

• 1:28:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's the one I'd really be looking at.

• 1:28:04Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:05Speaker 01

  And they have a couple more years, so, but they gotta get moving like now. Figure out what their role is in the world three, four, five years from now.

• 1:28:14Speaker 00

  Can I just talk about that just for a second?

• 1:28:17Peter Diamandis?

  You can, of course.

• 1:28:18Speaker 00

  The only thing that's saving both banks and insurance companies is the regulatory moat. Right? I talk to CEOs in that world and they're like, oh, the regulator is a pain in the ass. And I'm like, are you kidding? They're your best friend. They're holding the horde of startup folks at the gate, preventing them, disrupting the crap out of you because you're not doing anything around this for yourself. You have to disrupt yourself. And I think the regulatory barriers in both healthcare and in financial services are holding back these guys and is preventing them from being, doing the disruption.

• 1:28:48Peter Diamandis?

  How long do they, how long is that a moat for them?

• 1:28:52Speaker 00

  Really simple. Look at, in the crypto world, look at DeFi, decentralized finance, right? What's a central bank, what's a retail bank? A retail bank is just a centralized ledger where it knows that you deposited a thousand dollars and we lent it to Dave over there. And that's it. And we trust our life savings to the security of that centralized ledger. If I can decentralize that ledger, which is what DeFi is all about, why do I need the retail bank? So there's already huge amounts of transaction flows happening on these DeFi networks, which will start to circumvent existing flows. And as that happens more and more, the centralized banks are going to be totally, at least the retail banking part, there's other functions, investment banking, et cetera, which has much more human touch.

• 1:29:34Speaker 00

  But all of that will get disrupted. I would give it three years for retail banking.

• 1:29:39Peter Diamandis?

  Amazing, amazing. All right, let's move on. One of my favorite subjects is breakthrough science. Want to call out a few of these. So, one of the areas, again, Ray Kurzweil, my mentor, your mentor, Salim, predicted by the mid 2030s, we would have high bandwidth BCI. And I was like, you know, a decade ago, like, really? You really think we're going to get there? Well, so here's-

• 1:30:03Speaker 00

  How does he do it?

• 1:30:05Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, here's-

• 1:30:06Speaker 00

  How does he do it?

• 1:30:07Peter Diamandis?

  I don't know.

• 1:30:08Speaker 00

  You call me the emperor of exponentials, he's the grand poobah.

• 1:30:10Peter Diamandis?

  Yes, for sure. Let's take a quick listen. This is Neuralink's roadmap, right? I want to just point out, there's, I know of, in writing my next book with Steven Kotler, which is called We Are as Gods: Survival Guide for the Age of Abundance, we track sort of the top five or six companies in this field. Neuralink is definitely one of them. But there are others that are, have the potential to do far more. But let's take a quick listen at what we should expect.

• 1:30:39Speaker 07

  Next quarter, we're planning to implant in the speech cortex to directly decode attended words from brain signals to speech. And in 2026, not only are we going to triple the number of electrodes from 1,000 to 3,000 for more capabilities, we're planning to have our first blindside participant to enable navigation. And in 2027, we're going to continue increasing channel counts, probably another triple, so 10,000 channels, and also enable, for the first time, multiple implants. So not just one in motor cortex, speech cortex, or visual cortex, but all of the above. And finally,

• 1:31:21Speaker 07

  in 2028, our goal is to get to more than 25,000 channels per implant, have multiple of these, have ability to access any part of the brain for psychiatric conditions, pain, dysregulation, and also start to demonstrate what it would be like to actually integrate with AI.

• 1:31:35Peter Diamandis?

  So, the other thing that this is going to enable is for you to occupy an Optimus robot, right? So you can see through its eyes, you can listen through its ears, you can- Feel what it feels and move around. There's some good movies on that subject. But this is moving fast. And again, it's not the only company doing this. There's Paradromics, there's Forest, there's Mary Lou Jepson with Open Water, amazing companies out there and super exciting. You know, one of the subjects we had at the Abundance Summit a couple of years ago, it was a conversation actually with Alex Wiesner Gross. It was,

• 1:32:16Peter Diamandis?

  are we going to couple with AI, right? So AI is growing exponentially. We are, as humans, flat, linear or sublinear in some cases. Can we couple with AI? So as AI is moving, we can move with it.

• 1:32:32Speaker 00

  Can I say something here?

• 1:32:34Peter Diamandis?

  Of course.

• 1:32:34Speaker 00

  This is the actual massive optimistic, hopeful benefit of technology where you augment the human experience, right? Hollywood always has a dystopian Terminator, Skynet, Matrix, reward overlords come and take over the world. If we're lucky, we're pets and if we're unlucky, we're food. You always see that outcome. But you actually look how my smartphone augments my humanity, right? I have empathy built in, my memory is built in, I have reach, et cetera. I think the ability to project consciousness and awareness and human ability and empathy, et cetera, through other devices becomes the holy grail of where technology can take the human condition.

• 1:33:14Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, beautiful. Very quickly, we're going to see tech like this coming out. These are emotion tracking smart glasses. Apple has got smart glasses. Google's got smart glasses. Meta's got smart glasses. And what we're going to start to see, finally, hopefully, it's the visual recognition. When I see across the hall, my AI tells me, oh, Salim is approaching. You remember his? His son's name is Milan and he was born, you know, his birthday is coming up. And you basically have this ability to have a perfect memory for people, places and things. But also the idea of facial and biometric sensors.

• 1:33:53Peter Diamandis?

  So the fine, you know, muscle movements in the cheek and the eye that tells you this person is fearful or excited or lying.

• 1:34:03Speaker 00

  I, I need one of these because when you approach me, Peter, you're always have that look like Salim, you didn't do this thing that I asked you to do. And so I'll be able to tell that beforehand. Um, the, the, I've kind of found this, the point I want to make about this one is each time we find a layer of capability and we information enable that and make that available to both computation and AI, we have whole classes of applications that get unlocked at each of these. And I think that's incredibly exciting about what's happening in the world. Where information enabling all these different domains that we never thought possible around this.

• 1:34:35Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:36Speaker 01

  Well, side of, side conversation on this, we can have it later, but uh, this is definitely going to happen. It works really well. The cameras are super, super high def and they, they operate in frequencies that the human eye can't see. So they're going to detect all kinds of things that you never even knew you were telegraphing. I, I think the recipient, the person in front of the camera has a basic human right to know when they're on camera. And I think all these cameras should have built in uh, transmission that identifies, you know, where they are and what they're looking at. So you can have a little app on your phone saying, oh, I'm being watched right now and, and just know. Um, and I think that's a quick fix, but it's going to happen no matter what. I'm not delusional about it, but the cameras are going to be everywhere.

• 1:35:15Speaker 00

  Next time we connect, I'm going to show a slide on this. It's super funny, but we'll do that next time.

• 1:35:19Peter Diamandis?

  Okay. All right. Um, so a couple of slides in the bio, uh, biological world. Um, I track this carefully, uh, making investments in it. Uh, and I think this is where all of the longevity play is going to be happening. It's the impact of AI on the complexity of the human body, right? Forty trillion cells, uh, every cell running about five to 10. Billion calculations per second per cell. So how can you possibly understand that? By the way, a quick shout out. We're running our longevity platinum trip at the end of September. It's capped at 60 individuals. We're at 54. There are six seats left.

• 1:36:01Peter Diamandis?

  If you're interested in joining me for full five days, go check out abundance360.com/longevity and you can get some more information there. But let's listen to this. This is introducing Chai 2, a major breakthrough in molecular design.

• 1:36:17Speaker 08

  We've now developed the ability to engineer molecules and place atoms in 3D space. It's like Photoshop for molecules. Previous methods have had to screen millions or sometimes billions of protein sequences to find a solution. But with our latest breakthrough, we're often successful on the first try. The solutions that our models come up with are incredibly creative. They think very differently than our scientists do. There was a group that had been working on this hard problem for about three, four years, having spent $5, $10 million in the program. We typed what they are working on into Chai 2. And within hours, we had a candidate solution. And within two weeks, we have those solutions validated experimentally in the laboratory.

• 1:36:58Peter Diamandis?

  That's amazing.

• 1:37:02Speaker 00

  These types of breakthroughs are where we're going to have the biggest outcomes for humanity, where we find these things that we couldn't find otherwise.

• 1:37:11Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, it is spectacular. By the way, if you're listening to this and you haven't listened to my podcast that I did with David Sinclair, I think it was a couple of weeks ago, listened to it. One of my best podcasts ever. And he's using this kind of technology to develop a age reversal pill. And so thrilled about David's work. We're going to be spending the weekend with David at the longevity platinum trip at the end of September. Here is one other related article, and this is fascinating. So Big Pharma has this giant lock on trillions of dollars worth of value, which they have, you know, biologic patents.

• 1:37:55Peter Diamandis?

  And here is a tool that is able to recreate a protein that mimics an existing biologic drug, but works around the patents. Right, so genetics.

• 1:38:07Speaker 01

  Not gonna slow down because they're so. What's Tony Robbins quote on this? A healthy, a healthy person has a thousand wishes, a sick person has one.

• 1:38:17Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:19Speaker 00

  Beautiful.

• 1:38:19Speaker 01

  So much good that's gonna happen so quickly from this and we can't afford to slow down. Because a lot of people are saying, why don't we just stop? Which, you know, for two reasons. One, one because of this and two because China's gonna keep going anyway. But this is the really beautiful thing about what we're doing with AI now.

• 1:38:34Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah. We're about to wrap. I'll just hit humanoid robots and we'll cut it off there. Gotta hand it to the Chinese. Beijing is hosting the world's first humanoid robot games. You know, I think this could get interesting in the final result. I really want those giant mech robots doing, you know, battling out.

• 1:38:57Peter Diamandis?

  I don't know, I think gymnastics will be cool. I've seen the soccer on these little guys. It's kind of slow, but it's gonna, it's gonna go.

• 1:39:05Speaker 00

  Pretty clumsy, but it's gonna improve exponentially.

• 1:39:08Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah. We're seeing, you know, robots are, have taken over the Amazon warehouse. But what's new is one of the companies called the Gilead Robotics is actually gonna be putting their robots in Amazon Rivian vans. And those robots will do the last hundred feet. I think we talked about that last week. And this is, you know, a cool point. This video doesn't have sound. But the way that we solve the US debt problem is by hypergrowth on the backside of AI and robotics. And the notion is when robots build robots and AIs build AIs.

• 1:39:53Peter Diamandis?

  Thoughts about this?

• 1:39:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's gonna be. You know, I think a lot about, you see these pictures of, of India and, you know, Peter, you were over there not that long ago. And there's piles and piles and piles of trash, you know, from, you know, active overpopulation. And then you think about the robot. Cleaning, sorting and recycling every little bit of it and it becomes this beautiful green paradise. And that's, that's exactly what will be possible in just a couple of years.

• 1:40:19Peter Diamandis?

  That's beautiful.

• 1:40:20Speaker 00

  I have a, one thing we need to think about and we may need to dwell more about this is that when you have increased efficiency like human or robots can bring us, GDP will actually drop. Because if I can do something for a tenth of the price, that money isn't circulating in the, in the economy. So we're gonna have to think about a new, different measures, like some of the human development index or some of the others that people have come up with to measure success.

• 1:40:46Peter Diamandis?

  I don't want to go into that math right now, but we should have that conversation, right? Because it's your, your, the other argument that people make is we're gonna have this massive spike in GDP as labor costs and cognitive costs go to zero and the denominator starts, you know, shrinking rapidly. Oh yeah, wait, one more thing. It's in the tech world.

• 1:41:11Speaker 01

  We'll have to wear black t-shirts for this segment.

• 1:41:14Peter Diamandis?

  Uh, and why? In the tech world, something happened this past week. And that is Elon announces America Party. He puts out this poll and he says, should we form a independent party to break the monopoly of the two-party system? Two to one, the answer is yes. And then Elon announces his plans to do that. Comments on this before we wrap. Dave?

• 1:41:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, actually, we had a great riff with Scaramucci, Anthony Scaramucci on this just a couple of days ago. So check out, is that podcast out? It should be.

• 1:41:49Peter Diamandis?

  The podcast is out with Anthony, yes.

• 1:41:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, check it out. I think a lot of people loved it, even though I'm not a big politics guy usually, but, but I think everyone agrees, we need, we need much, much more rapid progress. You know, the tech is going to move forward regardless. And if you don't, if you don't change something, we're, we're not gonna have any regulation or any, it'll, it'll get ugly if we don't do something. So I think Elon recognizes that. But I was really always wondering how this would play out because so much of the voting process now has moved to meta, you know, sort of Facebook and Instagram, Snapchat, Twitter, now X, and it's owned by the big tech guys.

• 1:42:30Speaker 01

  And but but that's actually the election determiner too. So something had to collide. This is a very direct collision right here.

• 1:42:37Speaker 00

  What I was surprised at, given the audience that is on X, I thought the number would be much higher than 65%. I would have put it more like 80% would say yes. It definitely badly needs to happen because the current system is totally broken. The spending and the pork in this bill is off the hook in terms of creating more and more debt. There's a really big existential threat here because they've shown that if you go over 130% debt to GDP, your civilization collapses very quickly afterwards. And we're at 126 or 127%. So this puts it over the top.

• 1:43:13Peter Diamandis?

  Flashing red lights, flashing red lights.

• 1:43:15Speaker 00

  Flashing red lights at lots of levels and we can talk more about this a lot of the time.

• 1:43:19Peter Diamandis?

  Oh, my God. You know, the one thing that's interesting is it would definitely be a tech forward, a tech forward party. You know, I think the best way to drive, you know, debt reduction and growth in US GDP, yes, it's robotics, yes, it's AI, but it's also extending the healthy human lifespan and health span, right? If you gave everyone in the US an extra 20 healthy years where they're not making payments to their doctors, they're not in pain, they're not missing work, where, you know, 80 years old is the new 40, that would change the game in a significant fashion. So that's my vote.

• 1:43:59Speaker 00

  Here's the structural outcome of this. If this becomes real, which I hope it really does, then what happens is this becomes the marginal decider for any election. Whoever whoever collaborates with this party will decide the future and therefore you get to dictate policy, which I think is the real outcome, which I think would be hugely beneficial.

• 1:44:19Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, but we don't talk about, we don't talk about politics on this podcast. It was so fun to see some of our fans in the notes to this podcast saying, "I love you so much more than the all-in podcast because you talk about real science and technology versus versus politics." So just thank you for that comment. And we love doing this. I hope you love receiving it. Subscribe just for fun, just so we can, you know, see that number tick along. It incentivizes us. Dave, take care, buddy. Salim, I'll talk to you soon.

• 1:44:53Peter Diamandis?

  All right. I think our next, our next podcast guest on WTF is going to be Imad Mustak, back by popular demand. That'll be fun. So.

• 1:45:01Speaker 00

  One quick thing, on the 23rd, we're doing a workshop for a couple of hours.

• 1:45:04Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, tell me about EXO.

• 1:45:05Speaker 00

  Yeah, if people are interested, on the 23rd, we're doing a two hour workshop where we go deep into one of the attributes. We do this every month. It sells out. It's a hundred bucks. And so come along and help take your company to the next level by applying this.

• 1:45:19Peter Diamandis?

  Okay, so just to slow this down one second, it's an EXO workshop, an exponential organization workshop.

• 1:45:25Speaker 00

  It's a two hour workshop where we invite people to come. It's limited to a number, a certain number. It's a hundred bucks. And we spend two hours going to the key attribute of the EXO model, like crowd, community, AI.

• 1:45:36Peter Diamandis?

  Where do they find out about it?

• 1:45:38Speaker 00

  We'll put the link in the description, or go to openexo.com and then come join us because it's, we've getting, we're getting rave reviews on it. It's selling out totally. It's gonna be a lot of fun.

• 1:45:49Peter Diamandis?

  Love it, love it. All right, moonshot mates. Love you both. You too. Be well.

• 1:45:54Speaker 00

  See you next time.

• 1:45:54Peter Diamandis?

  See you next time. See you next time.

• 1:45:55Speaker 00

  See you in a scaramucci.

• 1:45:57Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, see you in a scaramucci. If you could have had a 10 year head start on the dot com boom back in the 2000s, would you have taken it? Every week, I track the major tech meta trends. These are massive, game changing shifts that will play out over the decade ahead. From humanoid robotics to AGI, quantum computing, energy breakthroughs and longevity. I cut through the noise and deliver only what matters to our lives and our careers. I send out a meta trend newsletter twice a week as a quick two minute read over email. It's entirely free. These insights are read by founders, CEOs and investors behind some of the world's most disruptive companies. Why? Because acting early is everything. This is for you if you want to see the future

• 1:46:41Peter Diamandis?

  before it arrives and profit from it. Sign up at dmagnus.com/metatrains and be ahead of the next tech bubble. That's dmagnus.com/metatrains.

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