Modeling Well-Being: Gisele Bündchen On Nourishing The Self, The Soul & The Planet

This week, I am joined by Gisele Bündchen, one of the world’s most recognized faces—a world-renowned supermodel, philanthropist, New York Times bestselling author, and ardent wellness advocate. Gisele shares her personal transformation journey, transitioning from the pressures of the modeling world to prioritizing wellness and mindfulness. She candidly discusses battling anxiety and panic attacks, opting for a disciplined, healthy lifestyle to reclaim her well-being. We explore the significance of positive choices, including her decisions to abstain from alcohol and set boundaries, showcasing the strength derived from aligning with personal values. Beyond the glamour, Gisele emphasizes the hard work, respect, and continual growth underpinning her modeling career. We dive into her environmental advocacy efforts and hands-on parenting approach, tackling challenges like instilling a solid work ethic in her children. Gisele’s commitment to leading by example and imparting life skills is a valuable lesson for every parent. Please enjoy! Show notes + MORE Watch on YouTube Newsletter Sign-Up  Today’s Sponsors: Momentous: Use code RICHROLL to save 25% OFF all Inside Tracker tests + 36% OFF new customer subscriptions 👉livemomentous.com/richroll Peak Design: Get 20% OFF backpacks, duffels, & more 👉PeakDesign.com/RICHROLL. Better Help: This episode is brought to you by BetterHelp—get 10% off your first month 👉BetterHelp.com/RICHROLL Go Brewing: 15% OFF my favorite non-alcoholic brews w/ code Rich Roll 👉gobrewing.com/discount/richroll Roka: Unlock 20% OFF my favorite shades & specs 👉 ROKA.com/RICHROLL Waking Up: Get a FREE month, plus $30 OFF 👉 wakingup.com/RICHROLL Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Rich Roll?

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• 0:44Rich Roll?

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• 1:05Speaker 01

  The choices that you're making are really either supporting you or not.

• 1:12Speaker 02

  Straight from the pages of Victoria's Secret, please welcome Gisele Bundchen.

• 1:16Speaker 03

  Gisele Bundchen! Gisele has walked in nearly 500 fashion shows and graced the covers of more than 1,200 different magazines.

• 1:24Rich Roll?

  On paper, like, you're perhaps highly unrelatable.

• 1:28Speaker 01

  You know what it is? It's a character. That's the job I do to kind of make a living so I can, like, you know, put food on the table. Raising children is by far the most challenging thing I've ever done.

• 1:38Rich Roll?

  It's a different kind of modeling.

• 1:39Speaker 01

  It's the type of modeling that I prefer.

• 1:42Rich Roll?

  Gisele Bundchen is one of the most recognized faces on the planet. A world-renowned supermodel and one of the top fashion icons of all time. But I wanna ask you to set aside all of that. I want you to let go of any presuppositions you might have about her and her life, and I want you to meet her for who she really is, which, I gotta say, is surprisingly grounded as well as relatable. She's a mom, she's an environmentalist, and she's also someone who cares deeply about well-being. This passion that emerged from her very real and relatable struggles with anxiety, with panic attacks, which catalyzed this journey that she went on to overcome the unhealthy

• 2:26Rich Roll?

  habits that drove her maladies, allowed her to rewrite her relationship with food, with her career and herself, and what matters most, all of which we explore today and further unfolds on the pages of her latest cookbook and lifestyle guide, Nourish. Giselle is a delight. She's definitely a talker. And what else is there to say? This one is just good times all around. So here we go. This is me and Giselle Punsin.

• 2:55Rich Roll?

  So nice to meet you. Nice to meet you too. So excited to have you here today. Yes, me too. When this opportunity presented itself, I was like, of course I want to talk to Giselle. And then I had my own like sort of mini panic attack. We're going to get into panic attacks. I'm like, what could I possibly talk to this person about? The all time great, supermodel of all time. Everybody knows this. On paper, like you're perhaps highly unrelatable. But then the more you dig into your story and the more I kind of learned about your arc and your past and what brought you to this place, there's so much that's deeply relatable. And your kind of transformation story is remarkably similar to mine, although you did yours at like 23, I was 40. But there's so much in there. So

• 3:39Rich Roll?

  I thought it would be cool to kind of talk a little bit about what it was like, what happened, and how you made these changes in your life. Because I think you're in this interesting new season right now, where despite the fact that you've been this wellness advocate and wellness warrior for a long time, my sense is that there's a more full embrace of that now with kind of how you see yourself and what's important to you.

• 4:05Speaker 01

  Oh, well, thank you for the introduction. You know, the funny thing is, I, you know, people's, you know, what I did for a living is something that kind of just happened to me at fourteen years old, you know, it was, it was like, hey, do you wanna be a model? And I thought, oh, I can help my family, you know, I can make a living and, and help, you know, I have five sisters and, and all that. So modeling to me is something that is, um, an opportunity that came along. Like, I think in life, you have these opportunities that either you take that train and then see where it goes, you know, and I never even believed that this was going to take me and I was gonna be doing this for almost thirty years, you know, it's, it's one of those things that I was like, oh, I'll start doing this job and, you know, send money home and help my sisters go through school and do

• 4:50Speaker 01

  all that. And, um, and maybe in five years, you know, I'll get a house because I didn't even go to school, you know, I, I, I was emancipated at fourteen.

• 4:58Rich Roll?

  Yeah, you were in Tokyo at fourteen.

• 4:59Speaker 01

  I was living in Japan without speaking English and Ja- or Japanese. And that's when I, when I started learning the language of, of, of energy, you know what I mean? Because you don't have to understand the language, you just have to feel, you know, something. There's a lot more that is being said without words, you know?

• 5:15Rich Roll?

  Sure.

• 5:16Speaker 01

  So I started learning about that. Um, but I think that I went through this journey of modeling, which was something I thought was gonna last five years and I was just gonna help my family out for a little bit. And it just kept going, you know, it just kept happening, you know, I, I didn't even think you can have longevity in this career because it's not what I, what I saw really around me happening. Um, but, you know, I kept, it kept working out, so I kept doing it. And it was kind of a mindless thing, you know, and you got in the hamster wheel. And I think we do that sometimes in life and you're so young, you don't know and you live the fast life and all of that. So in my early twenties, I, um, developed, you know, anxiety and panic attacks and all that because, you know, when you drink a bottle of wine and that because you were like, I used to be a smoker, so I smoke, I

• 5:59Speaker 01

  can't even imagine, I used to smoke, it feels like a whole different life, you know? But, um, it was the late nineties and there was a lot of, um, drugs and fashion and all that. So I thought I was sane just because I was like having some wine and smoking cigarettes. Everybody was doing way worse things than me.

• 6:15Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I'm sure you've seen a lot.

• 6:17Speaker 01

  I've seen a lot, yeah. That's a whole other show about that. That's a whole other story, but. Yeah, so, um, you know, so that was the beginning for me to start reconnecting with myself because I think when I was fourteen and I got that train, my only focus was like, how can I be the best that I can do on this? And, and, and that was my focus and, and I didn't measure any sacrifice. It was like if I had to work three hundred and sixty days a year and I felt like I couldn't say no because people were giving me a chance. And then I was like in this really overdrive uh and burned down my adrenals. I found out later when I found this amazing natural doctor who told me like, listen, you don't have any more adrenals. They're shut down because you burned them, basically.

• 6:59Speaker 01

  I'm like, but I'm only twenty-two, you know? So, um, basically I had to change the habits that I, you know, smoking a pack of cigarettes, drinking alcohol every day to calm myself down, coffee all day to keep myself up and also going from, you know, one time zone to the next. I was three days in Paris, two days in London, one day in New York, going back to, you know, my life was in a, living in a suitcase. And of course, your nervous system is going to freak out, you know? And the way I was eating, it was very, you know, anything that was in front of me, I was just like not mindful about anything. You know, I was just kinda um like a workhorse. And when that happened to me is when I, you know, I come from a family that is very, my, my grandmother had a tea for everything.

• 7:44Speaker 01

  So we never had, we were not the kind of, you know, you get sick, let me see this herbal remedy that we, you know, so.

• 7:51Rich Roll?

  Yeah, you grew up in kind of a small village, right? In Brazil, your grandmother was cultivating herbs and she was the person that everyone would go to for their remedies. So you have this sort of background and connection, you know, with the earth.

• 8:04Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 8:04Rich Roll?

  That, you know, is kind of lingering in the back of your mind when you're just, you know, hammering nails and, and, and, you know, drinking wine and living that life. But you're young, it's like, that's kind of what your twenties are for.

• 8:16Speaker 01

  Kind of.

• 8:17Rich Roll?

  And you're, you're on this like jet plane. I mean, figuratively and literally, like your career's taking off. On top of that, a people-pleasing tendency where you feel like you have to say yes to everything and you're just go, go, go, go, go.

• 8:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, and, and I think, but that was a big wake-up call for me because I think sometimes, you know, you have to reach rock bottom. And when I had those anxiety and they started becoming like almost crippling because I couldn't get on planes. It was just, you know, I was going to all these doctors and they were like, you have to take this stuff. And I was just afraid of taking anything because I've never taken anything. You know, I was a, there was a tea for this, you know, my grandmother wasn't there. So finally, you know, I wasn't gonna take a medication because just the idea of taking something, I was like, I was normal before, how can I go back being what I was, you know, like, I, I didn't have these issues. So what's happening? Long story short, I found this doctor, I had to replace my habits. It was that simple. I had to replace these habits that had created the reality I was living at that moment, which

• 9:14Speaker 01

  was, you know, um, really killing me in so many ways, you know, killing my spirit, killing my, and, and I replaced it with good habits. So now, instead of smoking cigarettes and having a mocha frappuccino in the morning, I'll go out and do breath work and go out for a run. And, you know, I replaced, in one day, I gave up everything. Because he, he looked at me, he says, Gisele, he called me Adrenalina. He says, do you wanna live? And I said, I do. He's like, so we're gonna change my diet. And that's for the first time in my life that I realized that I, I was really like the one who got myself there, and I was the only person who could get myself out by the choices that I was making. So I

• 9:55Speaker 01

  had to take full responsibility for what I had created. But it was in my power, only in my power to change that. There were no doctors, nobody who was gonna save me. I had to change, um, you know, the choices I was making. And I, and I did that. And it was incredible, because after over a year and a half, like, really struggling with anxiety and panic attacks and all that, within three months, I was like I never had another incident. And it was, you know, and, and once you start meditating, I mean, at that point, this was 20 years ago, right? It wasn't like people were talking about meditation and yoga and any of that. Um, it was just, um, you know, when you sit in silence and you, and you reflect, which is what we don't really give ourselves time to do, because the world is so fast paced and everything is catching your attention, is trying to

• 10:40Speaker 01

  throw you off your center, you know, everything is so busy, it's like an overload of information. To have that space to go inside and reflect and look and really take a step back, I think that was the biggest blessing of my life. So really, I think what could have killed me is what gave me a whole new life. And it was amazing, because since then, like, everything changed. I realized that food is my medicine. I realized that I am the director of my own movie, that I'm creating my reality based on the choices that I'm making. But what I'm choosing to, not only the people I'm choosing to have around in my life, but what type of energy, what kind of thoughts I allow to, what am I feeding? You know, what kind of thoughts am I? So all of that, so that became like a big changing of seasons for me in my early twenties.

• 11:25Rich Roll?

  What were those first couple of weeks like if you went completely cold turkey? On all of these bad habits at once?

• 11:31Speaker 01

  I think it was like a drug addict. I never was a, I guess I was a drug addict on illegal drugs because I guess alcohol is a drug and so is cigarettes, nicotine and all that. And caffeine and all that, but they are like socially accepted. But I tell you that I had the worst migraine. I mean, I felt like the, I mean, maybe that's what a person who's going, like you have gone to rehab, right? So I don't know what you felt, I would love to hear, but I, for me, it was like a migraine. Right? I mean, I don't know about that.

• 11:58Rich Roll?

  It's the only way I know how to do it, though. I don't understand how people kind of phase out of stuff. Like you have to, for me, you have to draw the line and step over it and it's gonna suck and you're gonna be uncomfortable for a while. But you know that on the other side of that lies all of this opportunity and possibility. But.

• 12:19Speaker 01

  And that's what happened to me. I think there was that, because what I knew, I knew that what I was and what I, if you do what you've always done, you're gonna get what you've always gotten. It's that simple. And what I realized at that moment, that what I, what I created for myself was not what I wanted. I needed to add drastic change. And then it was like, draw the line, stopped everything in one day, and the migraines and all of that, like the consequences of what I had done, I had to deal with them, you know? It took me like two weeks, I think. I was like having the worst migraines, just because I didn't know if it was the nicotine, the caffeine, the alcohol, I don't know what it was, but it was all of it together. And, um, but then it was amazing because from that experience, I, I became so much stronger and I've,

• 13:02Speaker 01

  and there are lots of different things that happened in my life after that. I feel like every time we get tested. It's like the Super Mario, you know, like the little video game when you go to do the big boss? Like you go through all the phases and you go to level one, the big boss is like, one, it's okay to defeat that one, but then the second one is like a tougher big boss and then the third one is a, you know? It's like, it's life. I feel like that's what life is. You get like the new tools to get equipped and then you go to the next challenge that is a bigger one and then is a bigger one. I feel like that's why we're here, you know, to keep seeing how we can expand, how much more we can, to grow, to evolve, to expand, to see how strong and how creative and how, you know, how can, how much we can experience of all this.

• 13:41Rich Roll?

  How did you, how did you plug that into the fast paced life of, of your modeling career? Because it's one thing if you're living a more kind of grounded at home lifestyle where you can control your food and your environment a little bit better. But when you're flying all over the world and you're on these sets and there's craft service and it's junk food, like you have to be way ahead of the curve to prepare everything, to have everything kind of organized for yourself. Because how do you, you know, if you're in just hotels all over the place and you arrive at midnight, like how are you getting your, you know, like how did, so how did you manage all of that?

• 14:16Speaker 01

  You have to be very disciplined. I think, you know, when I, I did this book called Lessons and, and it was like everything starts to discipline. That was like my first chapter and that's what I believe you have to decide and then you have to have the discipline to follow through. So, once you realize that these choices that you're making are having a positive impact in your life, you want to continue doing them. You know what I mean? You don't want to fall back into something that you didn't feel good. That's your past, like you don't want to go back there again. So, you're going to stick to the plan. Like this is what's working and this is what made me feel good again, so I'm going to stick to this. And of course, it's not a hundred percent. You have to be compassionate with yourself too and say, you know, be like, you know, life is hard as it is. You don't need to beat yourself in the head sometimes if you go and you, oh, you know,

• 15:01Speaker 01

  I had like, I was exhausted, I had like a banana bread or something or I had, you know? But I think you realize that the choices that you're making are really either supporting you or not. You know, supporting you, living the life that, making you feel good and living the life that you want and is taking to the direction where you want to go or not. And then it's just kind of an easier choice to make, right? And then I feel like when I go to the jobs, you know, I got to the point in my life where people know how I eat and, you know, I can tell people like, listen, this is what I want.

• 15:33Rich Roll?

  It's on the rider. You got an extensive rider.

• 15:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, I kind of, you know, because I was already working for so long. So, I have, you know, I got to the, I guess, really the privilege to be able to, to kind of say like, this is the kind of things that I would like to eat. So, if... Please at the job, you know, if you're working ten, twelve hours in a studio, can we have these things available, you know what I mean? So then it was easier to keep the food healthy, you know, um, because I think that's so important. And then just to say, I feel like, and then saying no to those things, you know, like coffee or alcohol, or things that I was just so used to because I was still in that same environment. The environment hadn't changed. I had changed, but all of that was around me still. But then it was just a choice of saying, you know, I feel great. And I haven't drank alcohol in over

• 16:19Speaker 01

  two years now, too. This is something, you know, I, even when I went back drinking after, it was very moderate, you know, I was still like, like I would drink socially sometimes, you know, peer pressure, sometimes like, oh, come on, have a drink, you know, and then you're like, feel like, especially in my world, I mean, everyone pretty much is like, socially having a drink. So I would be like, okay, I'll have a drink. But then it got to a point that I was like, and that was like twenty years later, because it just happened over two years ago. I was like, I don't want to drink, like, I don't care what anyone thinks. And I don't care if they have peer pressure. I'm gonna have my mint tea, my chamomile tea. And if they want to drink, I'm not making anyone feel bad about drinking. They can do whatever they want. This is their temple, you know?

• 16:57Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 16:58Speaker 01

  This is my temple. I get to choose. And they shouldn't make me feel bad that I don't want to, you know? So, um, then I kind of stood up for myself. I think that happens after your forties, like you care less about what other people think. And

• 17:10Rich Roll?

  Wait till you're fifty.

• 17:11Speaker 01

  Oh, my God, I can't wait for that. I'm gonna get like, he's gonna be, he's gonna be amazing.

• 17:16Rich Roll?

  But I think the thing, you mentioned, you mentioned like, being directed and, and being kind of dedicated to your path. And, and I feel like that's the underappreciated aspect of, of understanding you and your career. A lot of people arrive in New York City every single day with a similar dream or ambition that you had when you were a young person and you arrived there. And a lot of those people are very beautiful. You're very beautiful, but that doesn't tell the story of how you translated, like, An opportunity into the career that you had. And I think between the lines, there is an intense work ethic and a very intentional approach to what you were doing. Like, how did you apply those skills?

• 17:59Rich Roll?

  Like, what is the differentiator between you and the career that you've enjoyed versus, you know, the other beautiful people who aren't enjoying the same kind of career? You can't, and you're not allowed to say luck, or you're, you know.

• 18:12Speaker 01

  No, I don't believe, I don't believe in luck. I don't believe in luck. I believe in hard work. And, but I believe in, I mean, I think discipline, but I also believe that I always treated everyone the way I like to be treated. And I've always was appreciative. I have this immense sense of gratitude for just being there. So even though, you know, people were like, oh, you know, you, you know, when I was 19, I was like, I won the model of, you know, the model of the year. And everybody's like, how does it feel to be? It didn't really, it didn't matter to me because quite frankly, I never saw myself as a model. It's just not something, I didn't drink the Kool-Aid. I didn't believe because I was a model or because I became successful in this job. Like, I was better than anybody. I just, and I didn't believe that.

• 18:54Speaker 01

  I believe that I just got to learn that craft really well and I understood what the job entail and like, I learned how to do the job really well. But by no means is what defined me. It's just something I did. It's not, it's not who I am. I don't know if, you know, it's like, I go there, I had this opportunity at, you know, 13, 14 years old, when I finally left home and, and, and pursued this career, that really I thought it was just, really, I did it for the money. I did it because I was like, what else am I going to do at 14 years old that I can help my family? You know, I don't have any other jobs that are offering me an opportunity, so I'll take this one. So for me, it was really like a job, so I never like.

• 19:35Speaker 01

  It didn't kind of define me. I kind of did it my way. Like, I never became like, you know, it was like, oh, they need to be glamorous. I was never glamorous. I'm a jeans and t-shirt type of girl. Like, if I needed to go to parties or hang out with this type of people, I never did any of that. Like, I went there, I did my job, I did the best that I could. I never was late in my life for my jobs. Like, never showed up, like, late. I was there before everyone. I was there 100%. You know, I, I, I just wanted to make sure that if people were booking me and they, they were trusting in me, that I was gonna show up and deliver, you know? And I think that's kind of what it was. I did it my way, you know, and it didn't broke me, kind of.

• 20:17Speaker 01

  Because I saw, you know, people in this business, you know, you can lose yourself, because if you drink the Kool-Aid, if you start thinking, you know, like, you lose yourself in it. I never lost myself. It was just a job. And it's still just a job. I can't even believe I'm still doing it. Sometimes I go in and I do it, you know, it's not, it's not what I do full-time anymore, but it's just one of those things that, you know, I got to do this. I got to make a career out of it, and I got to make a great living and help my family. And I, I have wonderful, you know, I got to travel the world and learn different languages and, and, and all of that. And that's how I see it. I don't see it as a, you know, I don't see myself as like-

• 20:52Rich Roll?

  You're not defined by it.

• 20:53Speaker 01

  Not at all.

• 20:53Rich Roll?

  You're not caught up in, in the kind of dark underbelly of that very strange world.

• 20:58Speaker 01

  This whole world is like, almost like a parallel reality for me. You know what I mean? It's something, it's like a switch-on button. I go there, I do my job, I take my picture, I turn it off, I go home, and I have the same friends. I have my family. I'm very close with my family.

• 21:11Rich Roll?

  But I think you're very good at seeing opportunities when they arise. And you tell a little story in, in, in the new book about being 14 and en route to Tokyo. And your parents gave you, your dad gave you a little bit of money that was intended for getting a cab from the airport.

• 21:29Speaker 01

  That's the first day I arrived in Sao Paulo.

• 21:31Rich Roll?

  And instead of using that money, oh, it was Sao, okay, right.

• 21:34Speaker 01

  That's when I first moved to Sao-

• 21:35Rich Roll?

  Super young, right?

• 21:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was like-

• 21:36Rich Roll?

  You had a little bit of money-

• 21:37Speaker 01

  I took the bus.

• 21:38Rich Roll?

  To take a cab, and, and you had the presence of mind to say, this money would be better spent buying some clothes, so I can do- Better in my auditions or whatnot. Which isn't like, that's not normal. Like, that's somebody who's thinking ahead, who's planning long term, who's understanding that they have an opportunity in front of them and trying to figure out how to make the most out of it with limited resources. And I think that speaks to or says a lot about your sensibility or your perspective as a business person.

• 22:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, it's so interesting to see it that way. I mean, for me, at that moment in time, you know, I just felt like I did something else than that, you know? That was one of the things. And now that you're saying that, I actually did that throughout because I bought my first apartment when I was 19 years old. And when everybody was buying, you know, designer bags, all the models and, you know, remember, I didn't know I was gonna last in this business. I thought like, I didn't go to school. I didn't go to high school. I didn't, you know, I left, I went to work. And whenever I go back, I thought I was gonna be a farmer or something because I just always loved the land. And but I didn't think like, you know, like, where am I gonna go from here? So I have to make sure that I have at least a place to live. I'm a cancer, so I wanna have like a stable home.

• 22:54Speaker 01

  And when I was 19, you know, people start flying me first class because I was like the model of the year. I saw the clients now are paying me first class. I was exchanging those tickets for coach classes because I was every two, three days in a different country. And instead of paying my, you know, a rent in an apartment, I pay, I put down a down payment for an apartment. And then I was paying my mortgage instead of paying rent.

• 23:19Rich Roll?

  And you're 19.

• 23:20Speaker 01

  And I was 19, so I own my first apartment at 19 years old. It was like a, in New York City. It was like facing a wall of another building, mind you. It was like a very small apartment.

• 23:30Rich Roll?

  That's smart, you know? That does require some maturity and some long-term thinking.

• 23:35Speaker 01

  Well, because I just thought to myself, like, you know, I don't know how long I'm gonna stay here, you know? I at least I have to have a place to live if I like, I'm not gonna live empty-handed. You know what I mean? Like, what do I care about a bag or like, what is that gonna give me? It's not gonna be a roof over my head. I need to make sure that I have, that I can spend in the right places. But I think that sense came from my mother because we grew up, you know, my mother was a cashier in the bank. My father had like lots of different jobs, like he had a real estate job. But he was, you know, my mom, literally, we were like really simple people and grew up in two bedrooms with six girls. And, and money was always tight, so. I learned how to, it's the same thing in the book, it's like, how do you prepare? How do you not waste food? I mean, everything is like, I think in my life, I was kind of like raised that way.

• 24:20Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? Kind of plan ahead, like for tomorrow, so you make sure that you have like food for everyone. Like, like, we're gonna reuse the meat we cook on the barbecue, and we're gonna put it in the rice. We're gonna have karate, so we're gonna have an abundant meal because we have the rest of the food. You know what I mean?

• 24:33Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 24:33Speaker 01

  It's kind of like that. It's like you put money in the bank, so when you retire, you have something to, to live off when you can no longer work. The same thing I feel about food, like you eat the right food, so when you're older, you, you're able to have the energy and your body's functioning because you made the right choices. So for me, it's the same thing, you know, it's kind of making, like, just being kind of, what is necessary here? Like, do I really need this? What do I need more? Do I need a roof over my head? Or do I need this, this bags and this stuff? Do I need to take a taxi when I arrive to the model's apartment when I'm 14, even though I've never been to the city? Or can I take the subway and save the money so I can get the clothes for the casting? And maybe I can get a job? It's like, it's kind of thinking like, with the resources that I have right now, what is the smartest?

• 25:18Rich Roll?

  Sure.

• 25:18Speaker 01

  How is the smartest way to use them, I guess?

• 25:37Rich Roll?

  There feels like a distinction, a difference between Gisele Bundchen and the things that you care about, being this sort of homebody, family person, holistic lifestyle, like all of this stuff. And then, you know, Gisele, the, the runway, you know, on the runway. Like, it's almost an alter ego.

• 25:55Speaker 01

  It might be an alter ego, but it's, you know what it is? It's a character. I always call, call it her. Because I think being a model, what I understood as being a model, is to play a character in a silent movie. You know, you get to experience all these different charac- all these different aspects of, of, of being a woman, let's say, because one designer wants you to be more androgynous, you know, one designer wants, you know, I remember doing a Balenciaga campaign, I was like, they made me a boy. I was like, literally, they put like a wig, I was like a man, a boy. And in one, I was like the sexy Versace campaign, like, you know, like with big hair and like, you know, push up bra, you know. So it was kind of like, I got to play from the, the androgynous

• 26:39Speaker 01

  girl to this very sexy, to the tomboy, like, I got to, you know, I mean, you should, I don't know if you ever saw my book, the other one, that was like the 20 years, I did a 20 year anniversary book.

• 26:47Rich Roll?

  Well, I watched the video that you did, where you kind of went through it, and you were talking about what was going on with you with each of those photographs.

• 26:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, so it's, it's, it's, it's really about kind of playing these different roles, but it's just instead of you talking like you would be in a movie, you're just, you gotta make the image, that picture, that one capture image to-

• 27:08Rich Roll?

  It's a performance art.

• 27:09Speaker 01

  It's a performance art.

• 27:10Rich Roll?

  But it's such a weird world, though. I know that like Alexander McQueen, he was like, he was really the catalyst, right? He was the guy who kind of made it happen for you.

• 27:18Speaker 01

  He gave me the chance, you know, he gave me the, the chance.

• 27:19Rich Roll?

  But when you watch his shows, or some of these other shows, like, the designs are, are stunning and gorgeous, but they're also totally inaccessible. It's like, who wears this? Does anybody, is there anybody in the world that even wears, I mean, if you're Lady Gaga, I guess, or somebody like that, but like, yeah, it's a fantasy. And so it's curious, like, how does that translate into, I guess it's just how you feel and how you think about a particular designer or a brand, and not so much about directly selling those designs to the person who's going to the department store or the boutique, right?

• 27:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, they're not thinking-

• 27:55Rich Roll?

  I don't even understand the business model of the whole thing.

• 27:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, I, I mean, neither, to be honest with you, but I think it's a really- I mean, I think it has changed a lot since I started. Like, I see a big shift because I think before there was a lot more creativity. There was allowed a lot more creativity. I think, you know, McQueen or John Galliano, you know, the shows and stuff. Like, you were like in a fantasy world.

• 28:17Rich Roll?

  Sure, and the photographers being rock stars themselves.

• 28:21Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, and it was a, I think it was a moment in time where there was so much less about selling, but it was much more about the inspiration and the aspiring, you know, the aspiration of creating like a fantasy and like a, and it was a lot of fun then, I have to say, at that time.

• 28:37Rich Roll?

  I would have been dead. I wouldn't have survived it. I would have gone all in. I would have been at every after-hours party. It would have been a disaster.

• 28:46Speaker 01

  You see, I was in bed like studying my astrology books like by ten, you know? That was me. I was like, by ten, I was like, oh, no, I have to go. I was like, I have to start early so I can go to bed early. So for me, it was a different thing. But, you know, but I guess for me, I also felt very responsible because I didn't wanna, one of the guiding lights for me, I really believe, was my parents. Because I saw how hard they work and I didn't wanna disappoint them. So I think part of like me being so stay on the line was like, I'm not disappointing my parents. I don't care if they're not here, they are gonna know what I'm doing. Like, I remember part of the reason why I got so freaked out about the McQueen show when they sent me out like without a top. Because I couldn't speak English and they didn't even do a fitting anyway.

• 29:31Speaker 01

  So then I was, I was like, oh, my God, if my parents see this, they're gonna make me go back home. And then I, you know?

• 29:38Rich Roll?

  What is it like when you go back home?

• 29:40Speaker 01

  But there was no internet in 1997, 1999. It wasn't, so thank God, because they didn't even saw that. Otherwise, they would be like, what are you doing? I'd be like, I don't know.

• 29:49Rich Roll?

  And you have five siblings, right?

• 29:51Speaker 01

  I have five sisters. I'm a middle child. I have two older sisters and two younger sisters, and I'm a twin. And the middle, so we are like the sandwich, like the cheese in the sandwich.

• 30:01Rich Roll?

  Being Brazilian, you're connected to the Amazon and to climate change issues. And you've done a lot in terms of your environmental advocacy and clean water initiatives. Talk a little bit about how that began and what that looks like now.

• 30:18Speaker 01

  You know, I, I've always been a big... Basically, like a child of nature. I always tell my children when they ask, you know, what's your religion? They say, Mom, we don't go to church. I say, you know what? You're in church every day. I say, what do I say when people ask what my religion is? I say, love is your religion and nature is your church. That's your cathedral. That's the big church. That's our temple, you know? So you honor your temple, you love your temple. Because that's the only reason why we are all alive. Because this whole ecosystem is making it possible, you know, to grow our food, to give us, to provide us with all the things we need to survive. So, and that's how I grew up. I felt that way. And especially having a grandmother that everything was from the earth. You know, she grew everything she ate. And, you know, the earth was giving us the herbs that we needed to,

• 31:03Speaker 01

  like when we fell ill. And, and I grew up in that way. So when you grew up in that way and you grew up running around bare feet, you know, I come from a small village. And anytime you want to eat something, you grab. There was like a tangerine tree or like an orange tree or a plum tree. And you just go and pick up the fruit from the tree. We never bought fruits from the supermarket. You know, you go, either you had it in your backyard or your neighbor had it or the other neighbor. You know, somebody had the fruit you wanted to eat. You just go grab it. So I think when you leave with that connection to nature, you have a different appreciation. It's like, so I feel like nature is just like, it's, it's, it's me. Like, I think we are nature, you know, we are that. And I think this connection from nature for me is just something I've always known. You know, it's how I grew up.

• 31:45Speaker 01

  And so for me, taking care of which I love, which is nature, is natural. So, but the first time I realized there was really problems happening is when I went to actually spend some time with the indigenous people in Shingu area of the Amazon in the 2004. And that's when the first time I realized, you know, pesticide, what pesticides were doing, what mining was doing, how they were contaminating the rivers. And basically, all the indigenous tribes, they were living and depending on that water, they were like getting sick. And even though they were living very wholesomely, you know, with nature and, you know, by the impact that the big farms and different mining and all that stuff was having,

• 32:27Speaker 01

  um, was really, um, having a really terrible impact in their, in their, their livelihoods. And, and that's when the first time I was like, I need to do something about it. And that's when I started, like, I had a flip-flop line at the time in Brazil. And we gave a percentage, you know, to, that's actually a funny story, the, the indigenous people. And I was like, I wonder what they would do with this, with these funds. But it was like a group that helped indigenous in Brazil. And the funny enough, when I did, when I turned forty, this was in two thousand and four. So I was like twenty-four. Cut to, when I'm forty, two thousand and twenty, I was forty. Um, I wanted to do something for my fortieth birthday and I was like, oh, I want to plant some trees in the, in the Amazon. And how are we going to do it? So we looked around for who can help us do that.

• 33:10Speaker 01

  And we contacted the, the people that are working with the indigenous people that we knew in, in Brazil. And they're like, we have the largest seed bank in the Amazon. And we started with the money, with the whole program that you gave in two thousand and four, that money that was for the sale of the flip-flops. Now, years later, they had the largest seed bank of, you know, the, the indigenous, they, they collected the largest seed bank. And this is how, with that whole group of people, we basically planted over three hundred thousand trees in that area of the Amazon. So that was like years later. So that's just how funny how life goes. But for me, because I was so connected to nature and I always wanted to help. And my dad always said, you know, water is the most important thing. And of course I saw that with the indigenous people because that's how they were all getting sick.

• 33:53Speaker 01

  Because all the, the, you know, residue of mining and, and pesticides were going into their water. In my little village, we were having a lot of problems with agriculture as well, where there was a lot of runoffs from Roundup and all this stuff that they use in agriculture, all the pesticides and stuff. And it was getting a lot of people sick. So we actually did the Agua Limpa program in 2000. I think it was 2009 or so. I don't remember when we started, but it was like a long time ago. And I funded it. And my dad, who's also a sociologist, worked with the university. And we basically regenerated the whole area of the river that was kind of, you know, getting the water to the city. And we were able to clean it. It took us like a few years to do it, you know? It was pretty simple because all we had to do. I mean, it was not simple. My dad is the one who did the work.

• 34:38Speaker 01

  It was simpler for me. I just kind of funded it. But he was there every day. He had to work with, I don't know how many farmers. You had to take their piece of land and kind of grow the native species forest, you know, the native forest back.

• 34:51Rich Roll?

  There's a buffer.

• 34:52Speaker 01

  There was a buffer. And then the root systems could filtrate it before all that stuff would go into the river. And then that was the Agua Limpa project. And that was one of the projects we did to clean the water. And anyway, so there's lots of different things. But in the overall thing, my thing is, you know, we gotta take care of Mother Earth. She takes care of us. You know, when people say to me, oh, we're gonna save the planet. I say, that's such an ego thing. You know, as humans, we think we're gonna save anything. The planet is in her own process of evolution. This is a, you know, it's, I mean, dinosaurs were here before us. And, you know, lemur, I mean, so many different civilizations.

• 35:27Rich Roll?

  The planet will be fine.

• 35:29Speaker 01

  That's what I always say. I say, please don't fool yourself. I think we are really saving ourselves.

• 35:33Rich Roll?

  We need to, yeah.

• 35:34Speaker 01

  I say, there's no saving the planet.

• 35:35Rich Roll?

  We need to reel ourselves back.

• 35:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's really about us protecting the resources and taking care of what we really need for our survival. Because once we are gone, the planet is going to regenerate. I mean, I've seen this over and over again. The planet regenerates itself so quickly, you know? Because it's just a very intelligent. We need to learn from nature. Instead of like trying to control nature, we need to just like take a humble pill and learn from the big mama.

• 36:02Rich Roll?

  We've moved so far away from that. And we do live in this dualistic. Mindset where we think there's, you know, our environments and then there's nature or there's us and that's outside. But really understanding that you're never out of nature, as you, as you said, I think is the first point of trying to really deepen your relationship with the world in which you live. We all live and share. And I think when it comes to the Amazon, like, we all hear about deforestation and all the, you know, clearing that's going on for cattle grazing and the strip mining and all the stuff that you mentioned, but it's an abstraction, especially for, you know, people in North America.

• 36:47Rich Roll?

  Like, we know it's going on, we know it's bad, but I've never visited there, like, I've never seen it myself. And you being Brazilian gives you kind of a deeper appreciation and understanding of the extent of it.

• 37:01Speaker 01

  You know, I think it's how people tell the story because I think it's a lot deeper than, you know, I think people, like, depending on the industry that wants to benefit from something, they tell the story and they say, okay, this is what we're gonna do is about the cattle.

• 37:13Rich Roll?

  The grain washing.

• 37:14Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. It's so crazy. A lot of NGOs go in there and they say, we're gonna have an NGO because we're going to, like, protect the Amazon. But they're meantime, they're the owners of the bigger paper company that comes from the Amazon. They are just not, you know what I mean?

• 37:26Rich Roll?

  It's not, not all is as it seems.

• 37:28Speaker 01

  You know, it's a very, it's a wild, wild west there. And one of the biggest, you know, I've been there a few times and also done a lot of, just kind of like talking to people and understanding what happens there. And a lot of the, you know, there's ancient woods there and a lot of that goes to Europe. So like, what a lot of the cattle, for example, is what they use to kind of occupy the land. But what they're really after, which is really valuable there, is like, gold and mine, you know, the-

• 37:56Rich Roll?

  The rare metals?

• 37:57Speaker 01

  The rare metals. Yeah, the rare metals and the gold and all that stuff that's in there, that's what interests this, like, you know-

• 38:04Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 38:05Speaker 01

  The different countries that say they're not Brazil and they, and because it's so corrupt, unfortunately, you know, Brazil is very corrupt, the politicians are very corrupt. What happens is they sell those rights to those countries and then- We have what we have. And then the cattle, like in the end, they just kind of put them there because they have to occupy the land after they because they have to enter.

• 38:25Rich Roll?

  Oh, after they've removed everything.

• 38:27Speaker 01

  Because they have to remove the

• 38:28Rich Roll?

  Of value.

• 38:29Speaker 01

  The value.

• 38:30Rich Roll?

  Then they put all the cows there.

• 38:31Speaker 01

  That's what they do. So they remove the ancient wood, they they remove the precious metals. And and but they have to get there because if you fly over it, I mean, you're flying for hours over just a green carpet. So for you to have access to that, you have to, you can't just like clear cut because it grows. So what they do to keep the the forest from growing, they just throw, because it's very fertile, the soil, as soon as you cut. Because imagine, that soil has been there, like receiving all those healthy bacteria from the leaves falling, super fertile. So within like three days, you can, grass grows.

• 39:05Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 39:06Speaker 01

  And then in order for the trees not to keep growing, because if you just leave abandoned, that's what's gonna happen. The birds are gonna carry the seeds, they're gonna drop the seeds, they're gonna, things are gonna start growing again. And then they won't have access, you know, so they kind of, it's just like a cycle. But what is really after, what they're really after it is the big stuff, is the, is the, and and it's not, unfortunately, you know, it it's, it's so sad, you know, it's greed. In the end of the day, it's greed. And it's greed by people that, you know, they don't have those natural resources where they are. And and they understand the situation in Brazil and how corrupt the the system is, you know, with the politicians. And they come and they, they just buy those, right, they exploit it, they exploit it in in every way.

• 39:51Speaker 01

  But and and in the end of the day, it's, I think greed is the biggest disease of of our time.

• 39:58Rich Roll?

  You're not gonna get an argument from me on that.

• 40:16Rich Roll?

  Back to the wellness stuff. You're so intentional with food and lifestyle practices, breath work, like all of these kind of protocols and the ways in which you live that you express and explain in this book. It's a lot and you have two kids. They're, how old are they now? Like 15?

• 40:37Speaker 01

  14 and 11.

• 40:39Rich Roll?

  11.

• 40:40Speaker 01

  And I have a bonus child that is like gonna be 17, so.

• 40:43Rich Roll?

  Okay. How do you instill these choices in your parenting? How do you get your kids excited about the things that are in their best interest from a wellness perspective?

• 41:01Speaker 01

  I think the number one thing I feel is like monkey see monkey does, right? I think you have to be the example. You have to live it. Cause I think whatever you say is one thing and whatever you do, you know, they need to kind, they need to, whatever you say, whatever you do, they have to be the same thing, right?

• 41:17Rich Roll?

  Sympatico.

• 41:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, they have to be simpatico. And, and that's what it is. And I think for the kids, for my kids were a lot easier because I was home a lot with them. So I was, you know, taking them to school every day, making their breakfast, you know, just having my gardens at home, growing the food. So when the kids would come for play dates at the house, you know, my kids were grabbing like everything raw, cucumbers, carrots, like green beet. They were just grabbing it from the garden and like collecting things and putting in the basket. It was like a game for them. And it was like, oh, friends are coming over. Why are we gonna grab for the, for us to do our picnic outside? And then, so they grew up in that way, you know, they, they, so it was easier for me to feed them healthier food and, and, and explain to them, you know, we always composted, we had bees at our house.

• 42:02Speaker 01

  So, you know, they, they were learning about, you know, when the beekeeper would come and they explain, you know, how much bee, how much honey can you take? And how much money, how much honey do you leave for the bees? And how does a, how does a queen bee work? And all the, so they were.

• 42:16Rich Roll?

  They're emotionally connected to it.

• 42:18Speaker 01

  They were emotionally connected. They were part of that, like I was as a kid, so. So for them, it's really natural. And they were also homeschooled for the last three years during the, you know, the whole pandemic thing. And we moved from Boston to Tampa. So it was a whole new world for them. So I homeschooled them and now they just went back to school. But I have to tell you, I see a huge difference, especially because my son is 14 now. So he wants to kind of push back.

• 42:44Rich Roll?

  This is what I'm getting at.

• 42:45Speaker 01

  Oh, well, how old are your kids?

• 42:47Rich Roll?

  Well, they range from 28 to 16. And each one of, there's four and each of them is different. But it's a delicate dance because, you know, we raised our kids similarly. But they reach a certain age and part of individuation and maturing is taking ownership for your own choices and understanding what you stand for and what you don't. And in order to really define that and hone that, you have to go out and kind of push the envelope and try new things. Otherwise, it's just something you're doing because that's the way you were raised and that's what your parents told you as opposed to really owning it for yourself.

• 43:29Rich Roll?

  And so we have learned that you have to have the brains very loose and let them go out and do what they want to do. And control the environment at home, but be, you know, very kind of nonplussed if they go and make a choice that you wouldn't make or whatever, and just be curious about it and allow them the space to do that. And, you know, you hope they come back and, you know, do it the way you taught them to. And sometimes they do and sometimes they don't. And again, every one of them is different in our case. But as they get to a certain point, and especially, you know, when they're with peers and friends and they're in social situations, those things they have to learn for themselves. And you have to allow them to, I think.

• 44:13Speaker 01

  It's so interesting.

• 44:14Rich Roll?

  So you have to let go a little bit.

• 44:15Speaker 01

  Oh, let go and let God.

• 44:17Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 44:17Speaker 01

  I tell myself that is like a mantra. You know, and I remind myself of like my mom let me leave home. She emancipated me and I was living in Japan at fourteen and there was no cell phones. Like I call, you know.

• 44:28Rich Roll?

  Can you imagine doing that for one of your children right now?

• 44:31Speaker 01

  No, and actually, you know what is so funny? Because I was having a conversation with my son about that. He, um, he was complaining, you know, I have chores in my house. You know, kids have to do their chores. So set the table, wash the dishes, you know. Now I make a point, you know, I cook it, you know, they come from school, I'm cooking, you know. So one has to set the table, whoever sets the table, the other has to wash the dishes. And there is like, you have to clean your room, you have to do the basic stuff, you know. My daughter is doing amazingly, she loves it and she's like really good and very proud of herself. Mom, look how good I cleaned the dishes, like she's really good and she's washing herself. She's not putting it in the machine. She wants to learn how to really wash it and, and, and do it right. And she's very focused on it. My son is like, always like, why do I have to do this, you know?

• 45:15Speaker 01

  So actually, we had like a breakthrough this Christmas, this, this whole holiday season. Because I said, he says to me, I'm gonna leave home when I'm eighteen, mom. And I don't know if I'm gonna go to college. You didn't go to college, you didn't go to school. I'm gonna just leave home when I'm eighteen and I'm gonna do this and I'm gonna do that. I'm like, okay, that's great. So you're gonna live in your own apartment and who's gonna cook for you? And who's gonna wash your dishes? And who's gonna clean your clothes? Who's gonna do that? And he's like, for a second, he's like, because you're not gonna have a chef and like, you know, like. And he was thinking for a second and I say, well, this is why when mommy tells you to do those things at home. You know, is because I wanna give you more tools for your toolbox. Because when you learn how to do those things and they become second nature to you. Then you don't even have to think about it.

• 45:59Speaker 01

  You become empowered to do it for yourself. You don't depend on anybody and that's nothing. It's amazing to be able to do that. I said, you know what made me feel so like strong and capable when I left my home? Because my mom taught me how to do those things. So when I left home and I was living by myself at fourteen years old. I was first at thirteen, at fourteen, I moved to Japan. But because I was living in a modest apartment. I was the only person there who knew how to clean, cook, iron, do absolutely everything in the house because my mom taught me. And it was easy for me. I didn't think it was a struggle. I was happy to do it and I was happy to do it for the other girls that didn't know how to do it. But if you're gonna be planning on living on your own at eighteen, who do you think is gonna do all those things for you?

• 46:43Speaker 01

  So all I'm telling you is like, take advantage that mommy is here for you right now. And I'm able to teach you all those things and you can do it at your time. I'm not telling you like at this time you have to wash the dishes. So let me just help you. I'm gonna create a list for you. And you just have to do them and you can decide if you wanna wash clothes once or twice a week. You can decide if you wanna wash the dishes right after dinner or before you go to bed. Whatever you want, but if you learn how to do those things, you're gonna see how empowered you're gonna feel. And the more tools we can put, like the more things, like the simple things like that that you can learn and that you can equip your toolbox to do, you're just gonna be just that much like capable. And there's nothing more fulfilling than feeling like you're able to do stuff, that you're capable.

• 47:27Speaker 01

  And then he looked at me and he's like, okay, mom, so when we get back home, you give me that list and I'm gonna do it. I'm like,

• 47:33Rich Roll?

  Oh wow. I was gonna say like, he actually received that?

• 47:37Speaker 01

  I think I got a breakthrough.

• 47:41Rich Roll?

  The hormones are raging, like whatever, mom, you know, storming off. Like you can get, you can get that reaction too. That was good. Good job.

• 47:48Speaker 01

  Don't you think that was a good thing? But I used, but you see, it was a moment that I used what he said. Because when he thought to himself, that's true. How am I gonna do all that stuff? I say, you don't wanna live in like a, you know, a messy, stinky place that is not clean. Like, you know, you wanna like have, you know, so you need to know how to do this stuff. And I think all, I see like all the things that happen in life like that, like different tools we acquire, you know? Even the job that I, you know, my job, like all the tools that I've acquired in this job, all the things that I've learned to do, um, that I don't know when I'm gonna use. I use them for my job, but maybe I'm gonna, they're gonna be useful like in twenty years of my life.

• 48:26Rich Roll?

  Sure, but you came from very different circumstances. It's the, it's the peril of success, right? Like you and, and the kid's dad like worked very hard to achieve all of these things in life. And now they're reared in, you know, like an insane degree of privilege. And it becomes more difficult to instill that kind of work ethic into. Somebody who, you know, grows up that way.

• 48:50Speaker 01

  I think you're correct. I think it becomes a lot more difficult, but I think goes back to the discipline and it goes back to priorities. And I think for me, it becomes about what kind of, you know, I, I feel like I'm their guardian because we don't possess our children, right? I mean, we just come here, they come through us, but they're as much as our teachers as we are their teachers and we're constantly learning and teaching, you know, in every relationship in our life. And, and I feel that we get this moment in time, which is very short in a way, that we get to influence our children because then they go, I mean, look at my parents, they had 14 years to influence me. Then I was out into the world and I never went back. And I keep remembering like, what are all the things that if they wouldn't have taught me those

• 49:35Speaker 01

  things, where would I be today? And I'm so grateful for them for, for those lessons. And I feel like, yes, I grew up in very different circumstances than my kids and it is a bit more challenging to have them, you know, make their bed and wash the dishes and clean their, you know, when I have a person that can do it too. But I make a point of me doing it. So then they learn that, oh, mommy's doing the dinner, mommy is making the breakfast, mommy is, so they're like, we can do it. You have to model and I feel like.

• 50:04Rich Roll?

  It's a different kind of modeling.

• 50:06Speaker 01

  Is it, is it the type of modeling that I prefer? It's, it's the type of modeling that I find to be the important type of modeling because that's the, you know, I mean, what's the most, the most important thing you're gonna do in your life? I feel like raising children is, is by far the most challenging thing I've ever done and the most fulfilling at the same time. And, you know, but I feel that if, if I don't do that, if I don't equip my children to be good, capable assets, you know, for themselves in their lives, if they're not gonna be, then I fail. I feel.

• 50:42Rich Roll?

  Yeah, you haven't done your job.

• 50:43Speaker 01

  Then I haven't done my job. I mean, I feel that's my job. I mean, that's a job I do to kind of make a living so I can like, you know, put food on the table and have, but my real job is, as I think as a. As a mom, and I chose to be a mom, so I have to show up for my kids. And I feel like these things that my, you know, I think is really what shaped me and what made me who I am today was definitely the upbringing that I had and, and what my parents, how they guided me. And I feel like that's really important, so I make that a priority in my life. To make sure that my kids are going to have, even though they don't have those same needs, you know, to do those things. Because my mom didn't have a person she could pay to come clean the house. We had to, "You clean the bathroom, you clean the bathroom." You know, it was like a list all of us have to share between us, who's gonna do what.

• 51:28Speaker 01

  And we grew up that way. And it was kind of fun, because, you know, I was always, I always loved the cleaning part, you know, I love organizing and cleaning. I feel like a clean house is a clean mind, is like a, what's out is in. You know, if like, if everything is organized outside, I can think.

• 51:46Speaker 01

  And I tell my kids that, and I feel that, if I can really get them to do those simple things in life, you know, and, and learn those things and teach them how to be self-sufficient and capable human beings, I feel like I've done my job and then I can rest. And then whatever else they do, the choices they make, if they choose to eat the food that I fed them when they were little, if now they wanna go eat, you know, whatever, or, I mean, it's gonna be what they're gonna do, you know, they're gonna choose their friends, they, hopefully they, they choose wisely, because in the end of the day, they're gonna be the one dealing with the consequences of their actions. And I always tell them, like, "Listen, you know, you're gonna go out there and you're gonna make the choi-, whatever choice you make, there're gonna be consequences. You're dealing with those consequences, not me. This is your life."

• 52:30Rich Roll?

  And sometimes they need to, they need to make those mistakes and face those consequences.

• 52:34Speaker 01

  Like we had, I mean, how many mistakes you done, I mean, I have a list, I don't even remember.

• 52:38Rich Roll?

  And those, those experiences are formative. Like, I'm sure if you look in the rearview mirror and think about the panic attacks that you were having on airplanes and your inability to get into an elevator and, you know, this desire to jump off your balcony. On some level, you wouldn't wish that experience on anybody, but you probably wouldn't wanna change your experience either, because it's set in motion, this whole sensibility and way of being that you now have. And I think with kids, they, regardless of whether they hear you in the moment or whether they go out into the world and make a bunch of mistakes, like, they come back.

• 53:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:16Rich Roll?

  And whatever you... Taught them it's in there and at some point when they're ready or whatever like they return to it.

• 53:24Speaker 01

  And you know, and and I think to to trust that it's very important. And I also feel like.

• 53:31Rich Roll?

  Because if you try to overly control it, you're gonna drive them away.

• 53:34Speaker 01

  Absolutely, and and you know, I think for me, I keep going back to me as a kid. And the trust my parents had in me to let me go. And I wouldn't be who I am today if it wasn't for them trusting in me and for all the mistakes that I've made and then had to come the other side and figure out for myself. So I think it's important to give our children the dignity of their own process, you know, because we had a dignity, you know, we have to go through our own process to become who we are. And I think as long as they know that we are there and what what is our values, you know, is like those things that are important, what is what is that we stand for, what's important for us, you know, as as as a

• 54:16Speaker 01

  as a value, as a core value, as as as a being a good human being and a good person and and if you thought that your children and and they and they got it, in the end of the day, they're gonna go out there in the world and they're gonna have to make their mistakes and I I think the best thing you can do for them, it's is just be there for them whenever they they come back and if they want your help, you know, and I think it's it's hard because you want to protect them. Like you can put bubble wrap on them so like nothing will touch them and they will be safe, but in the end of the day, that's unrealistic. And it's like.

• 54:47Rich Roll?

  It doesn't work anyway.

• 54:48Speaker 01

  You know what, I like this idea, you know, there's a metaphor of the butterfly. Imagine the caterpillar as she is transforming into becoming the butterfly. She's, you know, eating, eating all the, you know, until she finally starts spinning into a cocoon and and then she has to like go through that whole strenuous process, if you've ever seen like, you know.

• 55:10Rich Roll?

  They turn into galop.

• 55:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, but they're like, but it's exactly, it's just, and it's really kind of like hard to, like when they're coming out, it's like really awkward and it looks like there's very strenuous and very difficult. So if you go in there and you try to help them come out, you're gonna cripple them. You're gonna cripple the butterfly and she won't be able to have the strength she needs to.

• 55:30Rich Roll?

  Is.

• 55:30Speaker 01

  So the struggle is what makes.

• 55:32Rich Roll?

  To the the growth.

• 55:34Speaker 01

  And you have to give them the dignity of their own process, you have to be, and I and I keep reminding myself, I cannot. Take away that opportunity for them because my parents gave me the opportunity for me to go through my own challenges and I grew and I want my kids to have that same opportunity because whoever they're going to become is going to be based on what their choices and hopefully I gave them enough good example and good values where they would make the choices that is right for them, you know?

• 56:06Rich Roll?

  What is it that you want people to understand or take away from the new book and how you are modeling this lifestyle? Whether it's dietary changes, lifestyle changes, movement practices? How can somebody who is interested in kind of leveling up across the board? Begin the process of making those changes in their life?

• 56:30Speaker 01

  You know, it's funny, you know, because when I decided to do a cookbook, I'm the farthest thing there is from a chef, let me tell you something. I'm not a chef.

• 56:38Rich Roll?

  Like, let's be honest, you've got a private chef at home. That person is taking care of everything for you.

• 56:42Speaker 01

  Not anymore, I used to.

• 56:44Rich Roll?

  You don't anymore?

• 56:45Speaker 01

  No, I don't. I don't.

• 56:46Rich Roll?

  Come on.

• 56:47Speaker 01

  No, the last two years, I don't.

• 56:49Rich Roll?

  You're cooking your own meals?

• 56:50Speaker 01

  Yes, I'm cooking my own meals, yeah. I grew up that way and I want, like I told you, like my priority is showing my kids what I believe it's important for them. And I can't I can't say, oh, this is important and then I have, and I'm not doing it, you know what I mean? So it has to be cohesive, right? And I think that for me, really being like, living what I believe is very important and I was showing my kids that this is important to me. Like, the only way I'm gonna show them that is by doing that. So yes, I had chefs and this is how I learned how to cook a lot of the things, a lot of the recipes in the book are like inspired by the things that I created with the chefs that I had throughout the years. I had the opportunity to,

• 57:31Speaker 01

  you know, to really work with incredible people, incredible chefs, people that love food as much as I do because I love food. But was really an idea for me to Look, I can say, go and meditate, go and exercise. You know, I believe meditation, I believe rest, I believe exercise, I believe nutrition. All of those things are extremely important for you to be able to take kind of ownership of your health and really take care of yourself and have and work on just having a more clear mind and just feeling more connected to yourself. I think all of those things are different aspects of it. But the reason about the cookbook is quite frankly, I was seeing kids were coming to our

• 58:11Speaker 01

  house and in playdates and moms would come and be like, how did you get my kids to eat broccoli or roasted vegetables? And it was like so simple and I was like, oh, maybe we can share how to make some simple recipes that are super easy, you can make it like in 10 minutes. And you know, moms, you know, you just sometimes feel overwhelmed and I know because life is busy, there's so much going on. So I was like, how can I help in this way? And also I feel like food is a perfect time for you to practice being present and mindful because you can eat like on a rush and not being present and the food have a one effect in your body. Or you can do something, which is what I talk about in the book, is like every time

• 58:52Speaker 01

  I look at my food, not only the act of preparing your food, there's so much love and you're touching the food and you're connecting with your food, that's one thing. But even if you're not the one cooking your food, just to take a moment to bless your food, to acknowledge that that is something that is alive, that you're taking it and you're, that's also your source of life, you know, so it's kind of like connecting to the food in that way. I think it does something because everything is energy. So you're having a transfer of energy with something and with the intention that you're eating, it has a different, I feel huge, you know, when I start doing that.

• 59:29Rich Roll?

  It does make a difference.

• 59:30Speaker 01

  How it has a different, just being present and being. Connected to what you're doing, having gratitude for that moment. And you get to do that three times a day, you know. I mean, now I have a juice once a day, but I still bless my juice. But it's just kind of like, it's just, this book, what I would like to, to, to, for people to take is like, it can be really simple. It doesn't have to be complicated to, to eat healthy. And really, like, if you have plans, you know, my mom taught me, you know, since I was a kid, like, no food waste. So how can we organize our meals? So you can, so-

• 1:00:03Rich Roll?

  There's a big thing about, like, reducing waste.

• 1:00:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's for me, that's huge. And also, like, meal planning. Like, if you're gonna buy, because, you know, food sourcing, that's huge. It's not about having something with a lot of condiments and a lot of stuff. It's just like, keep it simple, but buying really great quality products. Like, if you can do that, and then, instead of like, because a lot of people are like, oh, and then you buy organic, and then you throw it out, because it's like, you know, it spoils much faster. And I'm like, yeah, but if you have a meal planning, and I, and I teach that, I kind of give some suggestions in the book. Like, my mom did that, I grew up like that, because she didn't have time, you know, she was working all the time. So she had, like, in the fridge, like, what we gonna have for the whole week? So she would go to the groceries and she would buy, and then the things were allowed to the next day. So you would always know what we were eating, and things that wouldn't be eaten could be easily transferred for the next day

• 1:00:50Speaker 01

  and be made into the next meal.

• 1:00:52Rich Roll?

  Organized, so that nothing spoils and you're getting to the-

• 1:00:55Speaker 01

  So nothing spoils and you never had food waste, because you're always taking it from one day to the next. So it's never wasted, and you always have great quality food. You get organized, you have, like, your brats and all those things that you cook, like, on the weekend, and you put it in the freezer, so you always, broth makes everything taste better. So if you make a rice, if you make a soup, anything, you just put broth on it, is amazing. You're making, even if you're making a grilled chicken, you just put broth on it, makes it amazing. So I'm, it was just, it was just like introducing an idea of how can we eat health, how can we eat healthier? And how can we also practice, in a way, a meditation? Because, you know, maybe people don't, are not gonna sit for thirty minutes or fifteen minutes, however long, in meditation.

• 1:01:37Speaker 01

  But if they can just take that moment, and then it just becomes the practice of observing and of having these moments of gratitude in a day, it just changes your life, because- It's kind of like you practice, you start little by little and when you realize you're having moments of gratitude a hundred times a day about everything because that kind of seed was planted and then you're like, wow, like I get to experience this or I get and then life suddenly changes because the ordinary becomes extraordinary like the ordinary, you know, for us is ordinary maybe to have a plate of food but for so many people it's not, you know.

• 1:02:11Rich Roll?

  Well, the more kind of mindfulness and presence that you can bring to a mundane experience, the more extraordinary it becomes.

• 1:02:17Speaker 01

  And then life becomes amazing, you know, because.

• 1:02:20Rich Roll?

  It's great. Yeah, no, it's a beautiful book and it's very accessible and like you said, like it's simple. It's like, simple stuff, easy to prepare, super healthy. Um, let me ask you this, what is the thing, what is the challenge or the obstacle that you're facing right now that you're trying to work through this year? Like what is coming up for you? In the spirit of bringing intentionality into kind of the new year and what you wanna manifest and express?

• 1:02:53Speaker 01

  You know, I think I'm always working constantly in patience and in being patient and just accepting um the timing of things, you know, from the simple things like I have a project or something I'm working on and I'm like and people are not moving at the speed that I want or I'm doing a construction and like, you know, it's supposed to be finished and it's like still not like, you know, in whatever area it is, I think one of the things that I really am working on is to not allow the outside, you know, the intensity of whatever is happening in the outside.

• 1:03:32Rich Roll?

  There's a lot of noise around you.

• 1:03:33Speaker 01

  There's a lot of noise.

• 1:03:33Rich Roll?

  That has to be hard. If we had more time, I'd love to hear more about that.

• 1:03:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:37Rich Roll?

  But that has to be challenging.

• 1:03:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, there's a lot of noise. So I think the, the, the thing is, how do I look at everything and, and have the patience and the compassion also for myself? And for others and just kind of be in that space of, you know, allowing things to be what they are and not try to change them and just accept them for what they are and release that and just be, and just kind of go back to putting the focus on the things that I can control and, and just keep working at that. Just that hap- that's like an everyday.

• 1:04:16Rich Roll?

  Ongoing.

• 1:04:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's an everyday.

• 1:04:19Rich Roll?

  I can't imagine.

• 1:04:20Speaker 01

  Exercise and, and I guess, you know, it's, it's, I get to do those things. I feel like, you know, this is happening for me. I'm not the type of person who's like, why is this happening to me? I'm like, why is this happening for me? What are, there's always an opportunity for me to, to grow and, and, and, and there's always so many. So, but I think this of just kind of accepting what is, is, it's, it's,

• 1:04:46Speaker 01

  it's a kind of something that's on my consciousness and is constantly coming to me every day for me to exercise patience, compassion for myself, for others, and just kind of stay on that. You know, things are exactly as they meant, as, as they are and it's perfect. Everything is perfect as is, you know?

• 1:05:02Rich Roll?

  Well, I need a little bit more of that in my life, too.

• 1:05:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:05:05Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:05Speaker 01

  It's, it's, it's a practice, you know? It's like I haven't achieved that yet, but I, but that's what I'm working on. I'll let you know if I, if I.

• 1:05:13Rich Roll?

  Yeah, let me know.

• 1:05:14Speaker 01

  Get to the other side.

• 1:05:15Rich Roll?

  I gotta let you go. So, thank you so much. That was absolutely delightful.

• 1:05:18Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:05:19Rich Roll?

  So fun, meeting you and talking to you. Everybody pick up the new book, Nourish, at your favorite bookseller. We'll link all that stuff up in the show notes.

• 1:05:28Speaker 01

  That's awesome.

• 1:05:28Rich Roll?

  And come back and talk to me again sometime.

• 1:05:30Speaker 01

  I would love to.

• 1:05:31Rich Roll?

  And I'm gonna go straight to Arowan and get your new smoothie.

• 1:05:33Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:05:34Rich Roll?

  Can you, that's why you came to LA.

• 1:05:36Speaker 01

  No, exactly.

• 1:05:37Rich Roll?

  Get that up on its feet.

• 1:05:38Speaker 01

  I had like four yesterday. I was like, oh my God, I ate so much. I couldn't even eat a dinner barely last night. But it's the Immune Booster Smoothie because Gaia Herbs, I don't know if you know Gaia Herbs?

• 1:05:48Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:49Speaker 01

  They're amazing. I've been using them for 20 years. Actually, when I was having my panic attacks, my doctor at the time suggested I take adrenal supplements and that's how I learned about them 20 years ago. Funny. Now 20 years later, here I am, working with them because I think they're amazing. And so I wanted to do an immune boost smoothie. And really a great after-workout smoothie. So like something that I could just like a meal that I could have after workout. So in this one, there was like coconut meat, coconut milk, acai. You know, I grew up in acai, I love that. So superfood. There is lucuma, there is of course, edo berry syrup from Gaia Herbs. And I have bananas, frozen bananas, so it kind of gives like a little thickness.

• 1:06:33Speaker 01

  And, um, oh yeah, I have almond butter, almond butter. And I also put some collagen in there, some vanilla collagen. So it's a yummy stuff, it's really filling, you're gonna like it. You have to tell me what you think about it after. But it's really yummy. It feels like a dessert, but it's so good. It's full of good stuff, nutrient dense.

• 1:06:52Rich Roll?

  Awesome. Do I have to take out a second mortgage on my house to buy this smoothie?

• 1:06:57Speaker 01

  No, but it's a meal, like I promise you, once you eat, once you drink this, it's literally like a meal. So once you're done with it, you're not gonna be hungry for the last like four or five hours. You'll be like, all good to go.

• 1:07:09Rich Roll?

  Cool. Awesome. Thanks.

• 1:07:11Speaker 01

  Thank you so much.

• 1:07:19Rich Roll?

  That's it for today. Thank you for listening. I truly hope you enjoyed the conversation. To learn more about today's guest, including links and resources related to everything discussed today, visit the episode page at richroll.com where you can find the entire podcast archive, as well as podcast merch, my books, Finding Ultra, Voice of Change, and The Plant Power Way, as well as the Plant Power Meal Planner at meals.richroll.com. If you'd like to support the podcast, the easiest and most impactful thing you can do is to subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, and on YouTube, and leave a review and/or comment.

• 1:08:03Rich Roll?

  Supporting the sponsors who support the show is also important and appreciated. And sharing the show or your favorite episode with friends or on social media is of course awesome and very helpful. And finally, for podcast updates, special offers on books, the meal planner, and other subjects, please subscribe to our newsletter, which you can find on the footer of any page at richroll.com. Today's show was produced and engineered by Jason Camiolo with additional audio engineering by Cale Curtis. The video edition of the podcast was created by Blake Curtis with assistance by our creative director, Dan Drake. Portraits by Davy Greenberg. Graphic and social media assets courtesy of Daniel Salis.

• 1:08:47Rich Roll?

  Thank you Georgia Whaley for copywriting and website management. And of course, our theme music was created by Tyler Pyatt, Trapper Pyatt, and Harry Mathis. Appreciate the love, love the support. See you back here soon. Peace. Plants. Namaste.