How to make 2026 a year full of laughs (w/ Chris Duffy and Manoush Zomorodi)

For the past five seasons, host Chris Duffy has been interviewing guests from psychotherapist Dr. Orna Guralnik to poet Sarah Kay to author Andrew Leland and more on how they work to become better humans. In this special episode kicking off season 6, Chris is now in the hot seat. Manoush Zomorodi, host of NPR’s TED Radio Hour, joins as guest host to interview Chris on finding joy and how a 5th grader taught Chris humor. They also discuss Chris’ debut book Humor Me and the lessons he learned from hosting the podcast throughout the years. Featured guest Follow Manoush Zomorodi on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/manoushz/, LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/manoush-zomorodi-33904bb/, and at manoushz.com https://www.manoushz.com/ Connect with the team Follow Chris on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/chrisiduffy/?hl=en and at chrisduffycomedy.com https://chrisduffycomedy.com/Buy Chris’ book, Humor Me https://t.ted.com/ZGuYfcL Watch How to Be a Better Human videos on YouTube at TEDAudioCollective https://www.youtube.com/TEDAudioCollectiveFollow TED on X https://x.com/TEDTalks, Instagram https://www.instagram.com/ted, Facebook https://www.facebook.com/TED, LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/ted-conferences/, and TikTok https://www.tiktok.com/@tedtoksFor the full text transcript, visit go.ted.com/BHTranscripts https://go.ted.com/BHTranscripts Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Chris Duffy?

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• 0:34Chris Duffy?

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• 1:22Chris Duffy?

  Hi there. This is How to Be a Better Human. I'm Chris Duffy, and today on our show, we have-

• 1:27Speaker 01

  Hey, Chris, I can, I can take it from here.

• 1:28Chris Duffy?

  Oh, Manoush. Okay, you-

• 1:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, I've so got this. Okay. Hi. You're listening to How to Be a Better Human. I'm Manoush Zomorodi, and today we are doing something a little different. You might know my voice from my podcast, The TED Radio Hour. I'm a journalist and an author, and today I am so honored to be guest hosting How to Be a Better Human. If you are a long-time listener, even if you're not, I think you are going to love today's episode, because today it is Chris Duffy himself who shall be in the How to Be a Better Human hot seat. I am going to grill him on how to be funny, uh, because apparently he's learned. He's written an entire book about it. Just kidding, Chris. You are very funny.

• 2:10Speaker 01

  I have known Chris for years now because not only are we both hosts of TED podcasts, we actually get to hang out several times a year when we go to TED conferences. And let me tell you, when I see this goofy guy coming down the hallway after being surrounded by all the bros, I am so happy to hang out with him, to mock ourselves, to mock all the gluten free options that there are, and to just hang out with Chris because he's such a warm, lovely, kind person who also manages to be funny. It's kind of a gift. So today, though, we're going to talk about his new book. It is called Humor Me: How Laughing More Can Make You Present,

• 2:52Speaker 01

  Creative, Connected, and Happy. And I think this is particularly important right now because, oh, everything feels a little overwhelming, a lot divisive. And I think we need to remind each other that a simple way to connect is laughter. And Chris gets into the research behind that, how you can tap humor to make yourself laugh, to make those around you laugh, and ultimately lead a more fulfilling life, to be a better human. Trust me, he has got it all. He also, by the way, if you didn't know, he gave a TED Talk. So let's play a clip of that now.

• 3:30Chris Duffy?

  In my experience, the difference between people with an amazing sense of humor and those without is often just whether they are willing to accept and notice their honest reactions, or whether they try their hardest to fit them into a box. And that can shift over time. I saw that shift with my adult improv students. At first, when we would do an exercise where they were asked to name seven things in a given category as quickly and creatively as possible, many of them would get stuck. One guy, Rick, a corporate tax lawyer, answered the prompt, "Seven weird types of shoes," by saying, "brown shoes, white shoes, black shoes, gray shoes." I'm not going to name all the shoes. It was all a lot of boring shoes. You get it.

• 4:11Chris Duffy?

  But then, after we practiced celebrating our more bizarre thoughts instead of repressing them, Rick eventually came up with a list that included things like, "shoes covered in mud, shoes covered in gold, shoes covered in the blood of my enemies," which is like, that's a lot, Rick. Actually, that's a lot. It's really a lot. But it's also definitely more interesting. And I think that's the point. When we turn off our self judgment and we just notice the things that stand out to us or that we think, we can surprise ourselves in ways that are hilarious and delightful.

• 4:44Speaker 01

  So that was Chris on the TED stage. You're going to want to stick around because you're going to hear about the person that brought him back from the brink of losing his sense of humor and how that shaped him as a comedian. All kinds of tips, tricks, and ways to get those around you laughing and most importantly, get yourself laughing. We'll get to all that and more right after the break.

• 5:24Chris Duffy?

  This episode is brought to you by Planet Visionaries, a podcast in partnership with the Rolex Perpetual Planet Initiative. What connects a hidden laboratory in the Amazon, giant pandas in China's mountain forests, research relating to the ocean, and communities living alongside wildlife in India? That's what you'll hear on season six of Planet Visionaries. Stories from the explorers, scientists, and conservation leaders whose work addresses research, biodiversity, and conservation issues in specific locations. Planet Visionaries, hosted by environmental advocate and professional climber Alex Honnold, brings you real stories of discovery, determination, and research and initiatives relating to environmental change.

• 6:07Chris Duffy?

  In partnership with the Rolex Perpetual Planet Initiative, this is Planet Visionaries. Listen or watch wherever you get your podcasts.

• 6:17Speaker 02

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• 7:15Chris Duffy?

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• 7:59Chris Duffy?

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• 8:16Speaker 01

  Chris, I have to say, you are a delightful human being, and it is an honor to be here with you.

• 8:25Chris Duffy?

  Wow, thank you so much. I really appreciate that coming, especially from you, Manoush.

• 8:30Speaker 01

  Well, I don't say it to a lot of people because I don't actually like that many people.

• 8:32Chris Duffy?

  I'm aware.

• 8:35Speaker 01

  You're aware?

• 8:35Chris Duffy?

  I'm aware that that means a lot coming from you. I don't think you're the kind of person who just says you're a delight.

• 8:40Speaker 01

  Okay, good. So now that we've established that you are actually delightful, let's get into what you talk about in your book. And you call it "The Three Pillars of Good Humor." Let's go through, what is number one?

• 8:52Chris Duffy?

  Okay, so number one is being present and noticing the absurdity and weirdness of the world around you. I think a lot of us walk through the world like half paying attention, half on our phone, half thinking about where we need to be. And if you really want to laugh more, if you really want to see the things that are going to make you laugh, you have to actually be there and notice them.

• 9:10Speaker 01

  I couldn't agree with this more. I hope this is not out of line, but this happened to me this morning.

• 9:15Chris Duffy?

  Uh huh.

• 9:16Speaker 01

  Because um I noticed that as I was cleaning up after my dog.

• 9:20Chris Duffy?

  Uh huh.

• 9:21Speaker 01

  Her um

• 9:24Speaker 01

  spot on her tush, as it were, is argyle.

• 9:28Chris Duffy?

  Wow.

• 9:29Speaker 01

  The pattern of argyle on her, on her hole.

• 9:32Chris Duffy?

  That is incredible. Yeah, that's the kind of thing that you don't notice. You, in fact, your brain trains you to not notice that. And then when you notice it, you can't unsee it.

• 9:40Speaker 01

  I was like, oh, look at that. There's a little argyle sweater right tattooed on your little butt.

• 9:46Chris Duffy?

  I'm so glad that I could be the reason for you to notice that.

• 9:50Speaker 01

  Okay, so we're being present. We're noticing weird things around you.

• 9:53Chris Duffy?

  Uh huh.

• 9:53Speaker 01

  I'm having a ball with this already.

• 9:55Chris Duffy?

  Great.

• 9:55Speaker 01

  What is number two?

• 9:56Chris Duffy?

  And the second one is being willing to laugh at yourself. So as much as you notice the weirdness and absurdity in the outside world, also being willing to notice the weirdness and absurdity in yourself and to laugh at it. To not feel like you have to be some sort of like perfect, flawless, um, errorless human exemplar and instead be a regular, messy, error-prone, sometimes a bit of a disaster human like everyone else.

• 10:21Speaker 01

  Okay, let's, let's dig into that one a little bit more because I do think that that's hard to do these days because people are constantly trying to, you know, get across this idea that they are competent, they are confident, there's the old fake it till you make it sign it sort of thing. So, so talk me through like, there must be like a line there between like making fun of yourself, but also not undercutting yourself.

• 10:48Chris Duffy?

  Well, that definitely is true. Like there is a line where you don't want to undercut yourself. And especially it's true, um, depending on like what the context that you are making the, the jokes about yourself are in, right? Like if you are the CEO of a company, it's a lot, you got a lot more space to make fun of yourself without like undercutting your ability to have a professional career. If you are the entry level person making jokes about how you don't actually know what you're doing, that's probably like not gonna make you able to progress in your career very much. And I think there's lots of other types of identities that you might have to be thinking twice about whether you're undercutting yourself or not. And also like in general. You just have to think about context and the specific moment and the relationship that

• 11:32Chris Duffy?

  you're in whenever you are thinking about humor and laughter, right? There aren't like one size fits all rules for this. So I do think you want to test out like, are you undercutting yourself? Are you actually bullying yourself and being mean to yourself and making other people think less of you? But the flip side here is there is so much misguided social pressure, especially in the United States, like the, the culture that I live in and that you and I work in, there's so much misguided pressure that makes you think that the way to make people like you, the way to make people be impressed by you, the way to make people think that you are competent is to be flawless, is to have no mistakes and to be impressive. And actually, that is just like not true.

• 12:15Chris Duffy?

  The way that you make people like you, the way that you make people relate to you, the way that you make people want you to succeed and also think that you're competent is by showing them the messy human nature of yourself.

• 12:26Speaker 01

  Can you give me an example? Because as a flawless person, I find that very difficult to understand, Chris.

• 12:33Chris Duffy?

  It's so hard.

• 12:34Speaker 01

  Whatever do you mean?

• 12:35Chris Duffy?

  It's so hard because so few of us are minutious. Like if you were, if we were all minutious, this wouldn't be true. Then we would just be like, well, we are perfect. So why would we have a problem?

• 12:43Speaker 01

  I'm so sorry. I can't mock myself. It's nothing to mock here.

• 12:46Chris Duffy?

  It's impossible. I look in the mirror and I see the perfection. So why would I have a problem? You know, for the rest of us though, what happens is there's a study that a team of psychologists did and they were looking at job applicants. And they had research assistants pretend to be applying for a job and then they had regular people rate them as like, do you think we should hire this person? How much did you like this person? How competent did they seem? And what they found is that people who were competent and had the job qualifications were obviously rated more highly. Okay. But the people who were rated the highest were the people who were competent, had the right qualifications, were good at the job and had just poured a cup of coffee on themselves accidentally. So the person who says, oh my gosh, I just spilled coffee all over myself.

• 13:31Chris Duffy?

  I'm so sorry. I have this giant stain on my shirt. But then they also had all the skills. People liked them more than the person who had all the skills and hadn't spilled coffee on themselves because...

• 13:41Speaker 01

  They're relatable.

• 13:42Chris Duffy?

  They're relatable, right? Like if you just think about this in your own life. Right. If someone comes up to you and they're like, "Hi, actually, I just sold my company for $10 million. And also, I volunteer six days a week, and my son is going to Harvard. And by the way, I just bought my father a really thoughtful gift that I've been making. And I also work out all the time. And, you know, I just am like, kind of loved by everyone." That person probably is like, at the bare minimum intimidating to you, and, and more likely, very annoying. You're probably like, "I hate that person."

• 14:19Speaker 01

  Insufferable, actually. Uh huh. Yeah. Whereas if he was like, "Oh, uh, never mind this white patch on my fleece vest. My baby just barfed on me."

• 14:27Chris Duffy?

  My baby just barfed on me, and I thought it was Thursday, and it turns out it's Tuesday. But I am here. That is a person who you have so much more ability to connect with. And so I think that like, we think that you want to be the flawless, super accomplished person. And in reality, we don't like that person very much. We want to be friends with the other person. And we actually even want to hire that other person, too.

• 14:48Speaker 01

  Is it almost like, um, you're breaking the fourth wall in a way? It's like, "Life is but a stage," and like, "But actually, we're all losers here." Like, do you know what I mean? Like, we're in on it together in some ways. Like, it's creating that sort of intimacy, like...

• 15:03Chris Duffy?

  Totally. I mean, the reason why I love laughter, and the reason why I think like humor and comedy are so delightful and so important, is because when you're laughing really hard, when there are like tears streaming down from your eyes and your sides are, are hurting, you are so in it with that other person. You are perfectly in the moment. You are so connected, and you are not half there. You're not like, kind of on your phone checking email and kind of talking to them. You are just in it with them. And I think that this ability to say like, "Oh, you get it. You get it, and you get me, and we're on the same page. We both understand." That's such a powerful, incredible feeling. And I think that, um,

• 15:46Chris Duffy?

  the more that we can have that in our lives, the, the better our lives are going to be.

• 15:50Speaker 01

  In fact, you dedicate your book to the little snort.

• 15:53Chris Duffy?

  That's right.

• 15:54Speaker 01

  That people make when they. Totally like. I love it when, when that happens, you're just like, everything is, it's all gonna be fine.

• 16:01Chris Duffy?

  It's so good, right? I mean, it just means like, no one ever makes that little laugh snort when they're not having a good time. Truly, one of my best memories of all time is walking with my friends. I think I was probably in like sixth grade. And we're walking down the street after we left school and we were just like drinking our little juice, but juices or whatever, and trying to make each other like laugh through the nose and succeeding a few times. And I just remember like, that is pure joy, right? It's just like you and your friends.

• 16:27Speaker 01

  Burning sensation through your nasal passages.

• 16:30Chris Duffy?

  Giving yourself a like a sinus rinse with orange juice. That is, that's the greatest thing that can happen in a lifetime.

• 16:36Speaker 01

  Okay, number three.

• 16:38Chris Duffy?

  Okay, so the third pillar is, is putting yourself out there, is taking social risks. And, um, you know, it's certainly possible to laugh and to have a delightful comedic experience all on your own. But so much of the way that laughter works is social. So much of it is like, um, it's with another person or with a group of people. And so the really important thing here is to take yourself, to be willing to be laughed at, like we talked about in pillar two, and then to, to go out and apply that to like, put yourself out there, to try and actually connect with other people using humor. A way that you could think about it is like, when you have a conversation with someone,

• 17:18Chris Duffy?

  to not immediately feel like the only things you can, this is the, to me, the like lowest bar of taking a social risk is, if I have a conversation with someone, to not just go like, so crazy weather. Hey, so where do you live? And, uh, how long have you been there? Right? Like to ask them instead to say like, hey, on the way here, I noticed a dog that was wearing a top hat. Did you know that they sell hats for dogs? Like, that's a very small social risk to just like, point out something odd that you have noticed and ask the other person about it. To give them like a chance to have fun with you, to start laughing and to riff with someone else. And another one is like, A lot of us in our day to day lives, like if you see something that is odd or someone invites

• 17:59Chris Duffy?

  you to something that's like, you know, like the other day, someone said, hey, it's the holiday season. Do you want to go to a free event where they play Christmas carols, but they're every single instrument is the tuba. It's 100 tubas playing Christmas carols. And I was like, yes, we have to go to that. Tuba Christmas. I gotta see it. But I think there's a lot of pressure to be like, no, that sounds weird. I don't play the tuba, right? Like,

• 18:23Speaker 01

  No, I'm with you. The weirder, the better.

• 18:25Chris Duffy?

  Yeah. So that even can be a social risk, just like going somewhere that's a little outside of your normal day to day experience, going to an event that is odd or strange or might be not fun. Like that can be a social risk too.

• 18:38Speaker 01

  Okay, I'm going to give you an example of this one. This was, I recently went away for a weekend with eight other moms who I've known for years. We're not like besties or anything like that, but we're just like this cohort. And one of the moms was like, you know what? Let's get out of here. Let's go to Vermont. We have this place. We just renovated it. Let's go hang out there.

• 18:59Chris Duffy?

  What the?

• 19:00Speaker 01

  So we did, but then we get there and Chris, she's like, so over there are all the sleds.

• 19:06Chris Duffy?

  Oh, yes.

• 19:09Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. So nine middle aged ladies with no kids hurling themselves down this hill for hours. And I ate it, Chris.

• 19:21Chris Duffy?

  Oh, yeah.

• 19:22Speaker 01

  Never laughed. Well, no, I have laughed that hard, but not in a really long time.

• 19:28Chris Duffy?

  That's

• 19:29Speaker 01

  And that was a risk and I made a total jerk of myself and it was great.

• 19:34Chris Duffy?

  Oh, that's such a good example. I love that so much, right? Like, it would have been so easy for her to not suggest that because like, what if they think it's weird? And it would have also been really easy for you to say like, no, I don't want to do that because what if I look silly or ridiculous?

• 19:47Speaker 01

  All nine of us were into it.

• 19:49Chris Duffy?

  Yeah. When you do that, when you take the risk, it pays off so, I mean, that's the kind of thing where I think like, especially as I, as I get older, it's like, time passes so fast that all of a sudden you're like, was that 2022 or was that 2026? And like,

• 20:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:04Chris Duffy?

  These kinds of experiences, these like big moments where you're laughing so hard, they stand out more than like the big expensive or difficult ones, right? Like you could go to a really fancy meal and it wouldn't necessarily be like a flag planted in time. And yet the sledding is, you're going to remember that forever.

• 20:21Speaker 01

  We're going to take a quick break and we'll be right back after this with more with Chris Duffy.

• 20:43Chris Duffy?

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• 21:27Speaker 03

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• 22:00Chris Duffy?

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• 22:30Speaker 01

  We're back. Let's keep talking to Chris Duffy. So you are now an author of a book about humor. You've given a TED Talk about humor, but you open the book with a story about the fact that you kind of lost your sense of humor for a little while there. And there was a very special fella who brought it back for you. Can you tell us that story? Because I, I love that you included pictures also in, in the book.

• 23:00Chris Duffy?

  I was a, teaching fifth grade and it was a job that I really liked and cared about. But I was also like, it was, and you know, it was intense. I was dealing with a lot of, you know, societal issues that, that come up in the classroom because your kids are dealing with stuff. And I wasn't laughing a lot. I was kind of like beating myself up at the end of the day that I wasn't doing enough or good enough. And then I would come home and there'd be so much work to do. And I was just in a, in a very, not very fun rut. And then one of my students, this kid Gary, who is the single funniest person that I've ever met in my life, I was trying to figure out a way to get him to write more. And he came up with this idea that he would be the food critic for the school newspaper

• 23:42Chris Duffy?

  and he would review cafeteria food. And his cafeteria food reviews are like, to this day, the funniest things that I've ever read. Like, I've literally performed these out loud, just read them verbatim to audiences around the country and they always crush. I don't even, literally all I do is read his reviews and people are like, that's the funniest thing.

• 24:01Speaker 01

  Does Gary license them to you?

• 24:02Chris Duffy?

  Gary knows that I do this. He's given me his permission. He literally signed a release form.

• 24:07Chris Duffy?

  And also Gary's now, because of the way time works, Gary's now like a full adult man with a job, which is bizarre.

• 24:13Speaker 01

  Gary.

• 24:13Chris Duffy?

  But yeah, he would, he, the thing that was great is like Gary would use kind of the language of food criticism, but would be applying it to like a vegetarian hot dog in the tray with baked beans. And, and he would say things like, my server was very nice and generous. I imagine she was probably embarrassed to be serving this. Zero out of five stars. And he also used like, he would come up with these kind of similes that were like, you would never have expected where he was like, the pizza comes out of the oven and it smells like when you've borrowed your sister's shampoo and used it in the shower. Like, the fact that she is using like a special pepperoni scent of Pantene Pro V.

• 24:51Speaker 01

  Burt.

• 24:52Chris Duffy?

  Uh, yeah, Burt Pepperoni.

• 24:55Chris Duffy?

  But it's just, you know, it's so funny. And I think there were several reasons why it was so funny. One is just like, these were his actual, unfiltered, genuine opinions. But also it's just, it's the kind of thing that I had never thought of, right? Like, I never thought too much about the food that they were serving and like the actual like flavor profile and texture and presentation. And it's so fun to have that go from kind of like a blurred background image into like sharp focus. And yeah, Gary is just hilarious. And it really was one of the things where I came home and read that to my wife. I read that to all my friends and we were just truly like tears rolling down our faces.

• 25:33Speaker 01

  So did Gary like really spark something like new in you? Like that you felt like had sort of was dying and like, did like?

• 25:44Chris Duffy?

  Yeah.

• 25:45Speaker 01

  Is, did Gary save your life, Chris?

• 25:47Chris Duffy?

  You know, I'm not sure I'd go that far, but I do think that like, I'm not even sure it's something new. I think it was something that I had lost. And I actually think this is a part that is not just me. I think a lot of people have this where when we're kids, we so are naturally in touch with like creativity and humor and laughter and like play and being silly. And then when we grow up, a lot of what we are told like growing up is supposed to be is like getting serious. Stop laughing, stop being a goofball. And I just really found like, I did not like the all serious version of myself. It was not fun. It was not sustainable. And like, being with him and being reminded of like that goofiness of the ability to like

• 26:32Chris Duffy?

  look at any situation and find something hilarious about it. To me, that's like, that is the point of life. And also, you know, to be really honest with you, it's funny to be talking about this right now. And for this book to be coming out and me to be like doing these interviews because I honestly have been in a period of my life where it's like, it's ironic that I am, I'm selling humor because I have been in one of these periods where it's just like, I have a new baby, I'm not getting enough sleep, there's so much work to do, I'm overwhelmed. And I have like kind of-

• 27:09Speaker 01

  And the world is a rather stressful place.

• 27:11Chris Duffy?

  Yes, and the world outside, I don't know if you've checked, but it's not fantastic. So I have really been in this place where like, honestly, I hadn't been laughing a lot in the last couple of months and I had been feeling like, oh no, and just like the weight of the world. And then

• 27:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:29Chris Duffy?

  Having to look at my own, you know, lessons, I'm going to practice what I preach a little bit.

• 27:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:35Chris Duffy?

  Using some of the stuff from this book, I'm reminded of like, yeah, like, it's not laughing for me, and I think for what I hope is true for for other people is like, if you can do it when you don't already feel good, it actually makes a way bigger difference than when you already feel good and you laugh.

• 27:52Speaker 01

  For me, like I, when I had kids, I also had terrible postpartum depression, but the benefit was that it cleared out my filter. Benefit to me, maybe not for the rest of the world, but I now like see things and just sort of like appreciate them in a weird like, maybe that's just growing up and growing into yourself and feeling more confident or being too tired to give a crap about what anyone thinks. But I started sharing more of my like, just mutterings to myself, but also things that I saw. And you're right, like, it just sort of eased my relationship with

• 28:32Speaker 01

  the world. My favorite moment is when you have, like, a kid is screaming on the sidewalk, or like, somebody is like, driving crazy and you look over and there's somebody walking past and you share like eye contact and keep walking. I'm like, I, we just were like, the hell is that? I know, man. And then they just keep going. You're not friends.

• 28:54Chris Duffy?

  Yes.

• 28:55Speaker 01

  You're just humans in the world having a moment.

• 28:58Chris Duffy?

  I feel like that is like, yeah, that's incredible. The like connection where you two are like, I both see this wild thing. Okay, here we go. And I just think that like, I don't think we give enough credit to like those little passing moments of of connection and laughter with someone else as as being something that really makes life worth living.

• 29:18Speaker 01

  Can I read a quote that I wrote down from your book?

• 29:20Chris Duffy?

  I would love that.

• 29:22Speaker 01

  A good sense of humor is inherently generous. italicized generous. And I guess I hadn't really thought of it that way. I feel like it keeps me going in this state, this crazy world. But what do you mean by that?

• 29:36Chris Duffy?

  A mistake that people make when they think about what having a sense of humor is. And I think a lot of people think it's like about pay attention to me. I'm the center of attention.

• 29:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:45Chris Duffy?

  I'm making a joke and you're all laughing and wow, that guy's hilarious. And I think that like, we don't need more of that. That's not really what I would consider to be a good sense of humor. I think a good sense of humor is when you and the people around you are all laughing and you're having a great time together. So like often having a great sense of humor might just mean that you are laughing at and paying attention to the really funny things that the person around you is saying, right? Like you said, you have these mutterings and they're really funny. Someone with a great sense of humor is going to cherish those mutterings. They don't have to be the one making the muttering. And I think that's what I mean about it being generous is like you are giving your time and attention and your presence 100% to this other person.

• 30:23Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 30:24Chris Duffy?

  And you're making it so that we are all having fun together. That is what a good sense of humor is.

• 30:31Speaker 01

  There's a statistic that you cite, which I I can't remember what the exact numbers were, but it made me laugh because you said that most people say that humor in their partner, or if they're looking for a boyfriend or girlfriend or whatever spouse, that humor's the most important thing. But then you you specified that women say, somebody who makes me laugh, and that men usually say, someone who thinks I'm funny.

• 30:56Chris Duffy?

  Uh huh.

• 30:57Speaker 01

  And that made me laugh really hard because. I've just heard that so many times.

• 31:02Chris Duffy?

  Yes.

• 31:03Speaker 01

  Like, I really liked her. She laughed at all my jokes, right?

• 31:06Chris Duffy?

  I mean, look, there's no denying that it feels really good when you make a joke and someone laughs at it. That's great. But the idea that like, when people were asked if they said that a sense of humor was a really important part for them in a partner, and that when they asked straight women about it, they said, it means that someone who we laugh together. And when straight men were asked, they said, it means someone who laughs at my jokes. And I'm like, yeah, that's, you're missing something there. You're missing an important piece, my brothers. And we need to clarify that that is not actually like the biggest part of humor. That it is the, the more generous communal part, not just the, I'm, I'm the one getting attention. And I think there's a lot of pressure in this society.

• 31:45Speaker 01

  There is.

• 31:45Chris Duffy?

  To be like, everyone should have an audience, that everyone should be like building their personal brand. And it should be all about like getting as much focus on you. And I, I would like to push back on that and say that that's actually not the ideal.

• 31:57Speaker 01

  That brings me to when, after you do find your special someone and a story that you tell with your partner Molly, where it's not, it doesn't start off well, Chris. You're talking about chronic illness and pain that Molly was going through. Not a lot of fun.

• 32:14Chris Duffy?

  No.

• 32:15Speaker 01

  But there was a moment that you just had to laugh. And, and you, you talk about that section in the book where you explain like how to use humor with grief and with, when you're going through some of your toughest, toughest periods in your life.

• 32:32Chris Duffy?

  For me personally, one of the like magical parts of, of humor and laughter is the way that it can take a tense situation and relieve the tension, kind of like wipe it clean and, and help you to kind of see things from a, in a fresh, in a fresh way. The hardest laughs are the ones that like mean the most or when you're in a situation that's really not funny. But like, oh, it feels so good to like puncture that. So for me, you know, there was this period of time where my wife Molly was, was really in pain and not feeling good. And, and it was really struggling and she was struggling both mentally and physically. And it was without a doubt the worst. Period of my life and and her life and both of our lives.

• 33:15Chris Duffy?

  But even in that moment, there was like a tiny glimpse every once in a while where something would happen that would be funny and it would like puncture the the tension for a moment. And so one of those times was, you know, anyone who knows me and certainly anyone who's even listened to this podcast for one episode knows that I like to talk. I like to talk and I'm a very extroverted person. And Molly had this idea at one point that like, maybe like the solution for me that's going to make me feel better is if I go to like live at a silent meditation retreat. And I said, like, well, I really don't feel like you are in a position where like I can let you go live somewhere off the grid.

• 33:57Chris Duffy?

  Like all alone, I need to be able to get in contact with you because you're you're not really

• 34:01Speaker 01

  You're not feeling well.

• 34:02Chris Duffy?

  You're not feeling well. You're not really independent right now. And she was like, no, no, no, you would come with me too. And the idea that I was gonna like move off the grid to a silent meditation retreat when things were already really hard. I was just like, you're gonna take away the only thing that I have left, which is yapping. You can't take away my yapping. And I just the idea of us, even her in that really like struggling moment, even even for her, the idea of me being at a silent meditation retreat really like made us both laugh so much. So we were imagining me like trying to communicate with just my eyes or with like moving the bowl in a funny way.

• 34:38Chris Duffy?

  But I think that it also is kind of the thing where like it gave me a little bit of energy and ability to just like get through the day. And I think that that is really like when you're in these really tough times, being able to laugh a little bit can allow you to just survive it. It's not actually about like solving the problem, but it is about like changing your experience of the problem for for a brief amount of time.

• 35:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I didn't laugh at the time, but boy, did I have fun telling my husband the story. So he was in a terrible bike crash and um. And he called me from the ambulance and was like, can you bring my wallet to the hospital? I was like, okay. And then I get there and he's like, a mess. I was like, can you bring my wallet? Like, really?

• 35:34Speaker 01

  Can you bring my wallet? I think I hurt my shoulder. He ended up being in the ICU for five days. Yeah, yeah.

• 35:43Chris Duffy?

  But he could use the vending machine.

• 35:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, good point. Exactly. I have your insurance card and a dollar fifty to hit myself up with those, star cream and onion, potato chips, get me through the day. Yeah, no, you're, it's just those little moments where you're like, whoa, life is weird.

• 36:03Chris Duffy?

  Yes, I've been in this like intense period and like, you know, one of the things is, it's just hard to connect with your partner when there's so much to do. And I think like the classic early parenting thing is like, we're just ships trading off in the night, like, you know, we're, we're just handling logistics together and that has been a real challenge. And then, okay, well, what is something that helps us? And it was like, sometimes if we can just be together for like, thirty seconds and find something to laugh about, we're going to feel so much more connected. We used to do that all the time. That used to be like every night we do that and it's really fun. And then things got busy and it was bad and it was like, not an easy time. So then we stopped doing the thing that was helpful. And we, we just did it for the first time, like a few nights ago where we were like, okay, the kids are asleep,

• 36:47Chris Duffy?

  there's more things to be cleaned and there's laundry to be done, but let's just pause for thirty seconds and sit on the couch. And you show me one thing that you have found over the last couple of weeks that made you laugh. And like, she showed me a text message from some college friends. I showed her a video that I found on social media. It was probably like forty five seconds total. And both of us though, like laughed together. And it was incredible what a difference it was before and after in terms of like our connection, in terms of like how the day felt, in terms of what, what it felt like to be in the moment. So, I'm trying really hard to remember that in my own life, but like, this works for me.

• 37:22Speaker 01

  All right. So you spend a lot of time on this show, as I do, getting experts to explain themselves and share their innermost research, innermost research.

• 37:34Chris Duffy?

  Innermost research.

• 37:35Speaker 01

  The TED way. Innermost research, innermost feelings. You deal with a lot of feelings too. Like, but you don't get to show off enough, Chris. So I'm gonna just open the floor to you. Like, what do you want from this book? It is gonna, it's something that you're presenting to the world at a time when things do feel, well, on fire, frankly, literally and figuratively. And like, what is your, what is your biggest hope with the book?

• 38:06Chris Duffy?

  Yeah. I hope people other than my mom and dad read it. So that's my biggest hope.

• 38:11Speaker 01

  Well, it's great. So if you're listening, do read it. It is like hanging out with you, basically, for about 200 pages.

• 38:17Chris Duffy?

  Well, I already, already have accomplished my wildest dream, which is my mom and dad and Manoush read it. So there you go. Yeah, I mean, my, my real, my real like deep answer is I've hosted How to Be a Better Human for, this is our sixth year of the show. And people a lot of times ask like, what have you learned about how to be a better human? And I often just like play that off with a joke of being like, I have not learned very much. A lot of people on this show are really have figured out. I haven't figured anything out. Like 12 people have told me to not sleep with my cellphone in my bedroom. And boy, do I still sleep with my cellphone in my bedroom. But like, I do think that one of the, the things that has come up over and over in the course of doing this show,

• 38:59Chris Duffy?

  and over and over in my life, is, is how important it is to just be able to see the lightness even when there is dark around. I think there's this, like, to push back on the idea that like, if you laugh, if you have fun, if you are experiencing a moment of joy, that that means that you're like denying the bad parts of the world, the parts that are on fire. As opposed to, and this is what I really believe, is that like, this is how we tackle the bad parts of the world. This is how we have the energy and the desire and the will to actually like, make the world a better place and to work on the hard things in ourselves is by like, Laughing and connecting with other people and making them fun. Right? Like, people don't like to do like hard, painful things 24/7.

• 39:44Chris Duffy?

  And you can actually make a lot more progress if you can make it fun and funny and delightful. And I think that actually is possible. And, you know, like you said, and there's a classic comedy equation for this, which is that like tragedy plus time equals comedy. So like, even the hardest things, if we get a little bit of space from them, we can look back and we can laugh and we can see some elements of absurdity in them. What I hope is, is that this book allows people to find some really practical ways to laugh more in their life and to use that laughter to tackle the hard stuff.

• 40:19Speaker 01

  Can I just say, I love the idea of you ending the show or signing off from the show, saying like, I'm Chris Duffy and I am now the best human. And therefore, my work is done here.

• 40:32Chris Duffy?

  Thank you so much, How to Be a Better Human. And once again, I've confirmed, I am the better human. Thank you and good night. Better than you. And that is always my, my number one like qualm about the show is being like, I host a show called How to Be a Better Human. Always like, immediate disclaimer, that's not me. I'm not the better human.

• 40:51Speaker 01

  Okay, one question I had to end here. Do you have a New Year's resolution?

• 40:58Chris Duffy?

  Hmm. You know, I, I try and instead of like having like a workout more type resolution, I've been trying to have like a list of things that are like actions that I can complete. And then like a theme for the year. Okay?

• 41:12Speaker 01

  Wow, okay.

• 41:13Chris Duffy?

  This past year was, was for me was, was faith. And not necessarily like religious faith, although it could be that. It was more about like, I don't have to understand how these things will work for them to work. Like, I'm gonna have another kid. I'm putting out this book into the world. I am like, in a time of uncertainty, it doesn't have to be clear to me what this will look like. And that was a really helpful one. And so, my one for this next year is like, Is awe, is to like step into things that are bigger than myself. And so like, one, like, I would like to feel that. I would like to feel awe. But I also just want it to remember, like, you are a tiny...

• 41:56Chris Duffy?

  It's easy when you're doing things to be like, I'm the most important person. Like, it's all about me. And I want to just be like, you're just a little speck, and that's cool. It's okay to be a little speck.

• 42:04Speaker 01

  And that's cool.

• 42:04Chris Duffy?

  Yeah. And then, you know, my, my actual, like, things that are on my resolutions list are, like, I want to send my newsletter every week. I want to have recorded 30 episodes of the show. Like, they're like, things that I can kind of check off. And then, I always have, there's ones that I like, I have failed to accomplish from another year that I just try and roll over. So like-

• 42:24Speaker 01

  You just roll them over? You're like-

• 42:26Chris Duffy?

  Three years in a row, I've been like, submit an essay to Modern Love in the New York Times. And boy, it's not that I'm even getting rejected. It's that I'm never submitting. And I, at some point, will submit an essay to them.

• 42:37Speaker 01

  Okay, so the theme and then bullet points that you can actually achieve, and then occasional aspirational things, that it's okay if they roll over.

• 42:44Chris Duffy?

  Yeah.

• 42:44Speaker 01

  That's your approach. I love that so much. I'm going to work on that one. I think our work is done here.

• 42:50Chris Duffy?

  Thank you so much, Manoush. It has been a real pleasure to be interviewed and to be in such a capable interviewer's hands.

• 42:58Speaker 01

  Oh, my pleasure. Well, I'm taking over the show now, Chris.

• 43:00Chris Duffy?

  Well, that does make it harder for me to accomplish one of my goals for this year, but that's okay.

• 43:07Speaker 01

  That's it for this episode of How to Be a Better Human. Thank you so much to today's guest, Chris Duffy. He's also the host of the show, by the way. His book is called Humor Me: How Laughing More Can Make You Present, Creative, Connected, and Happy. I'm Manoush Zamirodi. I usually host the TED Radio Hour. You can find me there or on Instagram, at Manoush Z, where I do try to make people laugh occasionally. You'll tell me if I succeed ever. On the TED side, the team includes Daniela Balarezzo, Banban Chang, Valentina Bohanini, Lainey Lott, and Tansuka Sungmanival. The PRX team includes Morgan Flannery, Nora Gill, Patrick Grant, and Jocelyn Gonzalez. Thank you again so much for listening.

• 43:51Speaker 01

  Tune in next week for more How to Be a Better Human and your regularly scheduled programming and host. Until then, take care.

• 44:07Chris Duffy?

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• 44:53Chris Duffy?

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• 45:42Chris Duffy?

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• 46:25Chris Duffy?

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