Unlock the Language of CONNECTION: 3 HACKS for Supercommunicators to Build TRUST & INFLUENCE

Are you ready to transform your communication skills and build deeper, more meaningful relationships? In this episode of The School of Greatness, Lewis explores the art of communication with three exceptional guests. First, Charles Duhigg, Pulitzer Prize-winning reporter and bestselling author, reveals insights from his new book "Supercommunicators: How to Unlock the Secret Language of Connection," sharing practical tips on how to enhance your communication skills for deeper connections. Next, relationship coach and author Matthew Hussey discusses the secrets to successful relationships, emphasizing the power of authenticity, the importance of giving up superficial attention, and distinguishing between impressing and connecting. Lastly, actress and advocate Jameela Jamil shares her compelling strategies for effective self-expression and advocacy, demonstrating how mastering communication can empower us to speak up for ourselves and inspire others, leading to transformative changes in our personal and communal lives. In this episode you will learnHow to unlock the "secret language" of effective communication for deeper connections. The role of authenticity and vulnerability in successful relationships. How to distinguish between impressing and truly connecting with others. The importance of giving up superficial attention to attract what you truly need. How effective communication can empower personal advocacy and inspire transformative change. For more information go to www.lewishowes.com/1613For more Greatness text PODCAST to +1 (614) 350-3960You can find the full episodes from guests featured today here:Charles Duhigg – https://link.chtbl.com/1580-podMatthew Hussey – https://link.chtbl.com/1590-podJameela Jamil – https://link.chtbl.com/1499-pod Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Lewis Howes?

  Welcome to this special masterclass. We've brought some of the top experts in the world to help you unlock the power of your life through this specific theme today. It's going to be powerful, so let's go ahead and dive in. Not everyone's going to understand you, but I think when you have relationships where people do understand you or see where you're coming from, it makes you feel safer with them. Yeah.

• 0:23Speaker 01

  Evolution has developed a reward sensation from feeling understood and feeling connected because that's what helped our species survive, right? The, the early ancestors who said like, I want to take care of my young because I feel a bond to them, or I want to pair off with this community and invest in this community. They're the ones who made it.

• 0:45Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 0:46Speaker 01

  And so we have this inborn need and desire and sense of reward when we feel understood. That being said, if I'm saying something, even if you're listening closely, I might not pick up on it unless you tell me.

• 1:00Lewis Howes?

  Repeat it back in your words and say, did I get this right?

• 1:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, or, or, and that's, that's kind of formal. Like it can be more casual like it is with Matt, which is to say like, I hear what you're saying. Like, that's so interesting. It reminds me of this thing. Like to show that I'm hearing you, which you're very good at. Like I've, I've watched the show a number of times. Like you, you do this almost automatically.

• 1:20Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah. Well, it's also like, you know, we were talking off camera a little bit about how if you, I mean, I speak for myself, I grew up feeling like I didn't have any friends, right? That was the feeling, whether that was a hundred percent true, or if it was the story I was telling myself, it just felt like I didn't have friends for a long time. Until I was like 14 and I started to get more athletically, like confident and have like skills and you know, add value to teams. Like then I started to feel like I had friends. It was almost like because I didn't have this, I wanted to, to find any way for, to feel like, okay, what's it going to take for this person to connect with me? Yeah.

• 1:58Lewis Howes?

  Well, I heard that they're having a bad day. Let me check and ask them what's going on and how can I help them? Oh, this is what you're going through. And then you see, oh, someone's under listening to me. So I became really good at listening. That's interesting. Cause I didn't have a lot of friends. And so I would just ask people questions. I also never felt confident. Being like the center of attention and having all the funny stories or like knowing what to say or or knowing anything to say because I didn't feel like I was intelligent. So I would ask questions because that was the easiest way to build relationship.

• 2:31Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:32Lewis Howes?

  Not by having all the answers, but having the right questions. Built the deepest relationships for me, not by being the smartest, funniest, best looking or whatever. But by being interested in other people made me more interesting to them. And and just being an attentive listener.

• 2:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:53Lewis Howes?

  Like you said, this goes into looping for understanding. I didn't know this was a thing. I was just like, oh, it's working. Let me ask more questions.

• 3:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:01Lewis Howes?

  Let me get deeper. The deeper I would ask the question. I I really rarely ever ask surface, surface level questions. If it is, it's like I quickly go deep just because I can't stay there. It just doesn't feel right. So the deeper I go into more questions, people feel like, wow, no one's really asked me these things.

• 3:19Speaker 01

  Right.

• 3:19Lewis Howes?

  They must care in a different way.

• 3:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:23Lewis Howes?

  They must be curious about me. Wow, that feels good for someone to be interested in what I really think or feel about this situation.

• 3:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:32Lewis Howes?

  And I did it out of like necessity, out of like, you know, survival mechanism essentially as a kid. But it ended up being a a superpower as an interviewer now.

• 3:45Speaker 01

  And probably as a as a human, right?

• 3:47Lewis Howes?

  Sure, yeah.

• 3:47Speaker 01

  And by the way, the fact that you weren't good at it is something you have in common with most other people who are consistent super communicators. This is one of the reasons we know it's not an inborn characteristic is because if you talk to people who are the best communicators and you say, you know, you have you always been a great communicator? They'll tell you, no, like, like I, like as a kid, I felt lonely. I felt like I couldn't connect with people. I felt like I didn't have friends or my first job, they made me a manager and I completely screwed up.

• 4:14Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 4:15Speaker 01

  The reason they become a super communicator consistently is because. They've just thought a little bit harder about it. They usually because they have to, usually because they screwed up and they're like, I don't want to screw up again. And it's just thinking a little bit more about how communication works. That allows us to really connect with other people.

• 4:34Lewis Howes?

  So how does communication really work? Are there different styles of conversations?

• 4:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, so this is one of the big insights. And then I want to get back to questions because I think it's really important. One of the big insights from the last decade is that we tend to think of a discussion as being about one thing, right? We're talking about my book or we're talking about, you know, whether we should send the kids to this school or that school or where we should go on vacation. But if you look at the conversation that happens, the discussion, what you'll see is that there are multiple different kinds of conversations in that same discussion and that same dialogue. And most of them fall into one of three buckets. There's usually a practical conversation, which is a conversation where we're trying to figure out actually what we want to talk about and how to talk about it. But also maybe we want to like fix a problem or make a plan. It's practical.

• 5:21Speaker 01

  It's using the frontal cortex of our brain. There's a second kind of conversation, which is an emotional conversation. And if I come into you and I'm telling you about where I am emotionally and you suggest a solution to me, I'm going to be like,

• 5:34Lewis Howes?

  people don't like that.

• 5:35Speaker 01

  You're a jerk, right? Because when you're having an emotional conversation, you want to share how you feel and hear how other people feel. You do not want to necessarily solve the problem.

• 5:46Lewis Howes?

  This is where you hear all the, you know, the stereotypes of how men in married relationships struggle to relate or connect to their wives because they're more solution oriented. Not everyone, but that's what you hear. The stereotype is they're more trying to fix the problem of an emotional feeling that someone's having versus being comfortable sitting with the discomfort and just saying, I'm here for you.

• 6:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, saying, I hear you, right?

• 6:13Lewis Howes?

  Which is, that's like solving the problem.

• 6:15Speaker 01

  That's exactly.

• 6:16Lewis Howes?

  If men understood that you're just doing that is solving the problem and sitting in the uncomfort of that. But that's a hard skill to learn.

• 6:24Speaker 01

  It's a hard skill to learn. It's a hard skill to learn. And then the third.

• 6:27Lewis Howes?

  So that's the second one, the emotional conversation.

• 6:28Speaker 01

  So yeah, there's practical, emotional, and then the third one is a social conversation. And that's about how you and I see ourselves in respect to society, how we think society sees us, how we get along with other people. And so one of the things that we've found is that exactly what you just said, that what's known as the matching principle within psychology, that if I'm having an emotional conversation and you're having a practical conversation, they're both legitimate conversations, but we won't hear each other. Like, I'm gonna hear, I'm gonna say something emotional to you, you're gonna try and fix my problem in a practical way, and I'm gonna be like, A, you don't hear me, and B, I don't hear you. Like, I'm not paying attention to your solution. It's gonna create more miscommunication. So how do you know which one you're in? So through deep questions.

• 7:11Speaker 01

  And, and what super communicators do is they match the other person, and they invite them to match back. And so how do we do that? These deep questions, which is exactly what you just said. A deep question is a question that asks me about my values, my beliefs, or my experiences. And as you mentioned, like, a deep question might not seem deep. So if somebody says, "What do you do for a living?" "Oh, I'm a lawyer." "Oh, really? Like, do you love practicing the law? Like, did you always wanna be a lawyer? Like, what made you decide to go to law school?" Those are easy questions to ask, but all three of them are deep questions. Right. Because what I'm asking you is I'm asking you, like, what are the experiences that led you to where you are today?

• 7:54Speaker 01

  What are your beliefs that motivate whether you, that motivate, you know, going into the law? What are, what are the values that your work means to you? And when you answer that question, you're gonna tell me so much about yourself. And then if I'm, if I'm prepared for this, I can listen. Because if someone says, "Oh, you know, I went to law school because like, it was really important to me to have a steady job, and I knew lawyers, there's always work for lawyers." And so I, okay, so this person is in a practical mindset. And if somebody else says, "Oh, you know, I went to law school because I saw my dad get arrested, and I wanted to fight for the underdog." Wow, that's emotional. That's emotional, right? Wow. And so, Interesting. So just by, and, and by the way, the same person might answer that question both ways,

• 8:39Speaker 01

  depending on what minds, how they're feeling at that moment. But now I know, like, oh, I can match this person emotionally, or I can match this person practically. And there's, there's a kind of here, and you can sometimes just ask, um... In schools, they teach teachers that when a student comes up and they're upset, they should ask them, "Do you want to be heard? Do you want to be helped? Or do you want to be hugged?" And those are the three kinds of conversations. And it just feels...

• 9:07Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. What do you need? It's essentially, "What do you need?" Without saying, "What do you need?"

• 9:12Speaker 01

  That's exactly...

• 9:12Lewis Howes?

  If you can learn to listen and then ask a deeper question, you'll understand what they need based on these three levels, I guess, a practical, emotional, or social conversation.

• 9:21Speaker 01

  That's exactly right.

• 9:21Lewis Howes?

  And if you have trained yourself to understand how to be a super communicator and practice it, you're going to feel like a hero to everyone you connect with. You're gonna feel like, "Wow, Charles really understands me and really gets it. And he's just so easy to talk to. Every time I talk to him, it's gonna make you more likeable."

• 9:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:41Lewis Howes?

  More opportunities are probably gonna flow your way. You're gonna be more top of mind for people in the future when something comes up in a positive way. They're gonna come to you. You know, all these different things are gonna happen. I guess you're gonna have to learn how to create certain boundaries if they're, you know, coming to you too much or using you or whatever it might be.

• 10:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, but those are good problems to have.

• 10:01Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, exactly. Everyone wants my attention.

• 10:03Speaker 01

  I'm too popular.

• 10:04Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 10:05Speaker 01

  And I find that it's also when somebody asks you what you want out of a conversation, it feels really good. Like, I might come home and sometimes I come home and I'm like upset about work and I'm complaining to my wife and she'll say, "Okay, do you want me to solve this with you? Or do you want me just to listen?"

• 10:21Lewis Howes?

  Right. And vent or whatever.

• 10:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, and until that moment, I didn't know what I wanted. But when she asks the question, I'm like, "Oh, no, I want you to listen. Like, I don't want a solution." Like, suddenly now I know, like, "Oh, the way I feel better is just by venting."

• 10:33Lewis Howes?

  Right. Exactly. I can be that way too, sometimes.

• 10:39Lewis Howes?

  You say in the book that all conversations are negotiations. Can you explain what that means?

• 10:44Speaker 01

  So, there what's referred to, particularly at the beginning of a conversation, we usually have what's called a quiet negotiation. And it's important. Oftentimes, people hear negotiation and they think of a negotiation where the goal is to win. A quiet negotiation is very, very different. The goal is not to win. The goal is simply to understand what the other person wants.

• 11:06Lewis Howes?

  That is the win, I guess.

• 11:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's the win, right? I don't have to defeat you.

• 11:10Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 11:11Speaker 01

  But we can win together. So, when I came in today and I sat down with you and we were kind of chatting about, you know, how our lives are going. We signaled to each other a bunch of stuff. Like, we signaled that we were casual with each other, that we like each other.

• 11:25Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 11:26Speaker 01

  We signaled that it was okay to interrupt each other. We signaled that, um, that we didn't have to be, we didn't have to do looping for understanding. Like, like you, you can hear that I'm listening to you and I can do the same. There's all these small cues that we pick up on. Now, imagine if we had come in and I had sat down and you were like, hey, man, what's going on? And I was like, well, it's good to see you today. Like, oh, allow me to tell you about myself, right?

• 11:51Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 11:52Speaker 01

  I mean, and we had that, like, people.

• 11:54Lewis Howes?

  I had this last week with someone who was here, I won't say who it was, but I was trying to be, you know, more playful and open and, you know, flexible. And they eventually got there, but in the first 10 minutes, I like, not intentionally interrupted, but I just kind of added to something and, you know, followed up with a question while they were still finishing something. But it's kind of how I do a lot of things.

• 12:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:15Lewis Howes?

  And, uh, and he goes, you know, make sure you don't do that with the next person. And he kind of like cued me, like, let me finish first.

• 12:22Speaker 01

  Right.

• 12:22Lewis Howes?

  I was like, okay, well, I'm gonna make sure I let him finish.

• 12:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:26Lewis Howes?

  Before I add something.

• 12:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:28Lewis Howes?

  Okay, cool.

• 12:29Speaker 01

  I know what the rules are now, right?

• 12:30Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, now I know the rules.

• 12:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:31Lewis Howes?

  And he was kind of like, hey, you know, it was like, which, we, right, big. It was kind of playful, but it was kind of like, okay, like, I don't know him, so.

• 12:40Speaker 01

  Right.

• 12:41Lewis Howes?

  All right, I want to make sure we get a good interview, so I'm gonna play by your rules.

• 12:44Speaker 01

  Well, and, and oftentimes what happens at the beginning of a conversation, even without us recognizing we're doing it, is that we conduct experiments.

• 12:50Lewis Howes?

  Uh huh.

• 12:51Speaker 01

  Right, I might say something casual to you, and then I pay attention. Do you cat, right, do you laugh back? I might interrupt you. And I, and if you say like, don't do that again, I'll notice, right? And the thing that to remember is that I don't think it was a, it was not a mistake that you did that. It was not even a failure. Because the whole point of a conversation at the beginning is to work out those rules.

• 13:12Lewis Howes?

  Experiment with it.

• 13:13Speaker 01

  Experiment with it, and if some, and if every, like, my wife is a scientist. If every experiment is a success, you're a terrible scientist, right? You want to do experiments that fail and succeed. That's when you're learning. And the fact that this guy told you that.

• 13:27Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 13:28Speaker 01

  It mean that he actually told you something about how he communicate.

• 13:31Lewis Howes?

  He likes, yeah.

• 13:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:32Lewis Howes?

  And, you know, as an interviewer, um, I don't know if you do this when you're doing research or interviewing people as well. For me, I like to tell people when they ask me about interviewing or podcasting, this is my 11th year now of doing this show. It'll be 11 year anniversary, probably when this episode comes out. I always tell people that the, the pre-show is the show. Us talking for 10 minutes before we turned on the camera.

• 13:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:58Lewis Howes?

  Really determines a lot of how successful or unsuccessful the episode will go. Or the energy or the flow is based on the connection when someone enters the door. The experience and the environment you create for them, whether that's you or the actual environment. Your ability to see them.

• 14:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:19Lewis Howes?

  Before going on. And if they feel heard and seen.

• 14:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:23Lewis Howes?

  That is the show.

• 14:25Speaker 01

  And vulnerability, right?

• 14:27Lewis Howes?

  Hundred percent.

• 14:28Speaker 01

  And, and I think what, so there's another idea that's really critical in the book and that, that is critical to what we've learned in the last decade, which is known as emotional reciprocity. That when I show you something vulnerable. You need to show me that you've heard it. But if you share something vulnerable in return. We will feel closer.

• 14:47Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 14:47Speaker 01

  We really can't even, we can't, it's like hardware. We can't not feel closer.

• 14:51Lewis Howes?

  So if one person shares something vulnerable and the other one does not at least show empathy. Even if they don't share something vulnerable above them, but if they show some type of.

• 15:01Speaker 01

  Well, so showing empathy is a form of.

• 15:03Lewis Howes?

  Okay, right. So.

• 15:04Speaker 01

  So if you say like, you know, my, my dad passed away and I say, oh man, I totally understand. My, my aunt died 12 years ago.

• 15:10Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 15:11Speaker 01

  That's not.

• 15:11Lewis Howes?

  That's not empathy.

• 15:12Speaker 01

  That's not empathy. That's not, I'm trying to steal the spotlight from you. I'm not trying to share it. But if you said, you know, my dad passed away and I said, oh man, I like. I know how hard that is. I'm really sorry. And like. I've struggled with it. I'm sure you are, if you want to talk about it.

• 15:26Lewis Howes?

  My.

• 15:27Speaker 01

  That's all it takes for me to reciprocate that vulnerability and to say to you like. I welcome your vulnerability. I I'm trustworthy with it. And more importantly, like, I'm willing to go there with you.

• 15:40Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 15:42Speaker 01

  That's when, all of a sudden, we know the rule. We know the rules of this conversation. We know that. And and when we were talking before the show and, you know, I asked about Martha and I asked about your life and like, you're very open and you're very, you're very easy with your vulnerability. And just hearing that, like, it tells me the rules, right?

• 16:01Lewis Howes?

  That like, you can be open, yeah, it's safe space.

• 16:03Speaker 01

  This is a conversation where we can be honest with, where we can be honest and real. And once you have that, you're exactly right. The rest of the conversation is so much easier.

• 16:12Lewis Howes?

  Absolutely, yeah. A lot of it is the first interactions you have with someone and kind of experimenting so you can understand the rules, the quiet negotiation, what are the rules of this dialogue going to be?

• 16:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:24Lewis Howes?

  Um, speaking of honesty and challenging conversations, how can a super communicator that might be avoiding hard conversations with someone that as a friend or a business colleague or their partner, their intimate partner? How can a super communicator, I guess, navigate conflict, disagreement, or challenging conversations? It's to create a win-win.

• 16:50Speaker 01

  It's a great question, right? And and there's a couple of chapters on it and it is sort of one of the biggest questions. Um, and this is particularly in the last couple of years. There's a, there's a chapter about, um, the story of what happened at Netflix. Because there was an executive at Netflix a couple of years ago in a meeting used the N-word. Um, and very, quite rightfully, the rest of the company was like, this is totally unacceptable.

• 17:16Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 17:17Speaker 01

  But it threatened to actually divide the company because this was a popular executive. Some people were like, look, he didn't mean it as a slur. He was using it as an example and other people were like, this is unacceptable. You can't like.

• 17:27Lewis Howes?

  He's gotta be gone.

• 17:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. And so, and it took four months for them to fire him. But at that point, the company was on the brink of civil war. And so they.

• 17:36Lewis Howes?

  The culture wasn't good.

• 17:37Speaker 01

  The cult, yeah, the culture was just tearing themselves, tearing them apart. So they, they hired this woman, Renee Myers, who's an amazing woman. To come in and the first thing that she did is she said, okay, look, instead of avoiding conversations about race, we're gonna have conversations about race. But here's how we're gonna do it. We're gonna start each conversation by acknowledging this is gonna be awkward like, and by the way, I'm gonna make a mistake. You're gonna make a mistake. We're gonna say things that like, don't really come out the way we intended. It's gonna be hard. And number two, everyone at this table deserves to be at this table. So simply, you know, obviously someone who's black belongs to this table.

• 18:20Speaker 01

  But if you're white, you also have a racial experience and like, we need to hear that experience. You, you can testify, you can witness how your life has been as an expert and everybody at the table has an equal right

• 18:36Speaker 01

  to talk about their own experiences. And, and that worked at Netflix. It, I mean, it actually worked really well. It, it brought the company back together. Now, when that tough conversation you're having with an intimate partner or with a business partner, where there's some conflict there. Think about how differently it goes if you sit down and you say, something serious I want to talk about. Let me just acknowledge this is gonna be like awkward and I'm gonna say, I'm gonna say some, some things that like, I don't, they're gonna come off dumber than I mean them.

• 19:07Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 19:08Speaker 01

  And I'm just gonna ask for your forgiveness in advance and, and my goal here is to like, really understand where you're coming from because you belong at this table as much as I do.

• 19:23Lewis Howes?

  Impressing sounds like trying to be perfect. Whereas connecting sounds like trying to be real and authentic.

• 19:30Matthew Hussey?

  Yes, exactly. Or I think connecting comes from being real and authentic and impressing is, is what we do when we go in like we have something to prove. And if you go, if you approach anyone less from a place of I've got something to prove and more from a place of, I want to find the human in you and I want to show the human in me. And if we do that, then we're just going to enjoy each other's company. And that's, that's like the highest goal.

• 19:57Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 19:58Matthew Hussey?

  Is that we enjoy being around each other, not that I have some kind of power over you by impressing you. So now I could, you've put me on a pedestal and now from that pedestal, I feel like I'm in control and I can control the dynamic here. Cause that's what so much of that is, isn't it? It's like, if I'm impressive, then it gives me a sense of control. But if instead I come to connect, it's like, we're really relating to each other and, and the, the power isn't my power over you. The power of the situation is that we really enjoy spending time together. You and I are friends and the reason we love spending time together is not because, you know, we come over to each other's houses and impress each other.

• 20:41Lewis Howes?

  Right, right, right, right.

• 20:42Matthew Hussey?

  It's we're friends because we, when we hang out, it, we're, we're enjoying each other's company and that comes from connecting. And I think actually, our, our love lives would be served more by bringing the connection part forward.

• 20:57Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 20:58Matthew Hussey?

  And the impressing part can, that will happen.

• 21:02Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 21:02Matthew Hussey?

  All the things that are wonderful about you, don't worry, they're gonna,

• 21:05Lewis Howes?

  They'll figure it out. Yeah.

• 21:06Matthew Hussey?

  They're gonna figure it out. And by the way, how much more powerful.

• 21:08Lewis Howes?

  More impressive.

• 21:09Matthew Hussey?

  When someone figures out something that's awesome about you and you didn't scream about it, it's even more impressive.

• 21:14Lewis Howes?

  Very impressive.

• 21:15Matthew Hussey?

  It's really powerful because you go, if they didn't feel the need to make that the headline, what else do I not know about this person?

• 21:22Lewis Howes?

  It's interesting you say that because I can't remember what it was in the last month, but Martha was like, oh, I didn't know you did this like 10 years ago. Like she just found out something that I did in the past, but she was like, I never knew you interviewed this person or you did this thing or that's really cool. You did that. And just allowing someone to discover things about you, I think is impressive.

• 21:41Matthew Hussey?

  Yeah.

• 21:42Lewis Howes?

  That you didn't shout it at the rooftops in the beginning, in the first date or something.

• 21:45Matthew Hussey?

  And, and, and that doesn't mean that you have to artificially hide things either from a place of humility. If organically certain things about your life come up, that's fine. But it's, I think it's questioning our intention going into a situation. I think, but look, like, I'm out there talking about a book right now and talking to lots of amazing people and people who on the surface are very intimidating, big shows, whether it's podcasts like yourself, whether it's. TV, whatever. It's like you you're in some high stakes environments. And if I go into those things thinking I need to impress everybody here,

• 22:26Matthew Hussey?

  then I'm already in danger of losing the thing that actually makes people connect with me.

• 22:34Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 22:36Matthew Hussey?

  Because I'm trying to now be something and I'm trying to wear something and and wear this badge of look how great I am.

• 22:45Lewis Howes?

  When someone is, I guess, when someone is connecting with another person, the first meeting, first date or first interaction.

• 22:54Lewis Howes?

  What is the biggest mistake they could make, you think, in pushing that person away? From actually wanting to be curious about them and wanting to learn more about them? What is the biggest mistake that a guy could do and a woman can do in their first interaction of a date?

• 23:10Matthew Hussey?

  I I mean, something that I think there's a real deficit of these days is actual vulnerability. Not like this sort of fake vulnerability. There's a lot of fake vulnerability. There's a lot of people telling like their hero's journey. You know what I mean?

• 23:31Lewis Howes?

  Sure, sure.

• 23:32Matthew Hussey?

  Where and we all have one of those stories, right? We all have the story of when we weren't doing so well. And when this our back was against the wall and the odds were against us. And we were in a really bad spot in life and then we came through it. But those aren't necessarily vulnerable stories because you're the hero of that story. It's like, look how hard it was and look how awesome I am that I was able to get out of that. There's no shame on doing that. It's just, I don't think that that's the same thing as

• 24:06Matthew Hussey?

  as connecting with who you really are and what you think about. And that's like a very, you know, we have these very well scripted hero's journey stories of our life that make us sound really impressive. But I don't think that's the same thing as really connecting and I think and being vulnerable. And so I think one of the way that one of the mistakes, I suppose, that people make early on is.

• 24:32Matthew Hussey?

  Never really being vulnerable and vulnerability isn't. I always remember I did a TV show in Australia. And before anyone who doesn't know me watching this thinks that that must mean I'm Australian. I'm not, I'm English. I feel like everyone in America always still thinks I'm Australian. But I was doing confusingly, I was doing a TV show in Australia and

• 24:56Lewis Howes?

  Did they know you were British in Australia?

• 24:58Matthew Hussey?

  Yeah, they know, they know.

• 25:02Matthew Hussey?

  But I remember this, this woman that I was coaching on this show. She kept going on to every date. She went on this date and I was supposed to give feedback, watching them on the dates and seeing how they did and what they could do to kind of improve next time around. And one of the things I kept noticing was like throughout the date, she was just really laughing hard at everything this guy said. And at the end of the date, I said to her, he's, he wasn't that funny.

• 25:39Matthew Hussey?

  Like you were laughing like constantly, but he wasn't very funny. It doesn't mean you couldn't have politely laughed now and again, you know, his attempts to be funny, but it, but the way that you were laughing all the way through the date was sort of inauthentic. It wasn't, that wasn't really you. Cause I know, I know you didn't find all of those things funny. And by the way, you were laughing hysterically, even when he wasn't trying to be funny, you know, like it.

• 26:05Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 26:06Matthew Hussey?

  So I said, that in itself was an absence of vulnerability because instead of just connecting as you were and sitting into the date and maybe occasionally allowing there to be a breath without feeling every silence and That would have been, even that would have been an authentic experience. So I said to her, the next day you go on with the guy, I want you to just share a little more, you know, because you also asked him a lot of questions. That's another version of not being vulnerable, is when we just ask someone else lots and lots of questions and keep them talking. Yes. And we don't ever share anything. And I coach a lot of people who are like, you know, especially a lot of women I work with are like, men don't ask questions.

• 26:51Matthew Hussey?

  And I know that if you were to watch a lot of them, by the way, that's true. A lot of guys aren't asking questions. They're all too happy to just take the floor. Yeah. And talk about themselves. But we play in, if we're in a insecure place of not wanting to be vulnerable ourselves, we play into that dynamic because we keep setting them up. We ask another question and when they've finished talking, instead of vulnerably allowing there to be a silence for that person to have to now come in and ask you a question, you fill it again. And you ask another question. And then that person says, okay, me again. And then they start talking and telling you another story. So we, you know, that we actually precipitate

• 27:36Matthew Hussey?

  that dynamic. Yes. By never taking the floor for ourselves and telling a story or sharing. So anyway, for me, her version of just asking questions and laughing was a form of lacking vulnerability, not really sharing. Yeah. So I said, the next day I want you to go on, I want you to be a more authentic version of yourself and I want you to share. And this is darkly funny, but you understand the context in which this was funny. She went on the date and she told a story of a horrible car accident her father had had. Oh my gosh. That changed his life forever.

• 28:17Matthew Hussey?

  You know, I just remember being tickled by it because it was obviously a very, this was a big story in her life. This was like one of the most tragic moments in hers and her dad's life. This was not like a second date.

• 28:31Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 28:32Matthew Hussey?

  Like, this is how to, like, when I said be vulnerable, I didn't mean go and tell the most tragic story of your life.

• 28:38Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 28:39Matthew Hussey?

  There's other ways to be vulnerable because not everyone deserves to know at the beginning of our connection with them, all of our flaws, everything we're insecure about, everything we worry about on our worst days, all of the things we're struggling with. Yeah, like you don't necessarily trust someone enough with, you don't feel safe with them enough to share all of those things. But there's other ways to be vulnerable. If you, if you share with someone something that you're passionate about, that's vulnerable.

• 29:07Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 29:08Matthew Hussey?

  Like if you, because often what we're passionate about isn't popular or it's not cool.

• 29:14Lewis Howes?

  Weird, it's nerdy, it's some unique hobby.

• 29:16Matthew Hussey?

  It's weird, yeah, it's like our thing. And it's, and it's a little bit like, it's very us, whatever that thing is very often, or, or why we like it is very us. And, and so sharing something, whether it's a TV show or a song that you listen to a lot that you like, if it came on your like Spotify shuffle, it would like, it would embarrass you that it came on in a room and that was on your, the shuffle gods really screwed you by playing that while everyone else was around. That, sharing those things and the things you're into, that, that itself is an act of vulnerability because you're sort of allowing yourself to be seen a little bit. So that, you know, I think

• 29:58Matthew Hussey?

  these are all ways that people can be on a date with us or be in a room with us and go, aha, a person. And I, it's worth asking ourselves, how, how, did I create any of those moments on this date? Or was I constantly tight and tense and censoring myself and anything that was really me? And asking them lots of questions, which is a, it feels like connecting when you're only ever asking someone else questions because you're like, I'm doing it all right. I'm told to be a great listener and I'm told to be curious. And I was doing that. I was being really, really curious. But that, there's a point where that goes past.

• 30:33Lewis Howes?

  Too much, yeah.

• 30:34Matthew Hussey?

  Yeah, because now there's not a connection here.

• 30:37Lewis Howes?

  No one knows anything about you. Yeah, exactly. Now, here, here's something I'm curious about. What is it that women actually want today in a relationship? And I'll give you context. I was watching this video online recently of some guy on the street asking a woman, like, what's your biggest turn off in a man? And the woman said, she was probably in her late twenties, the woman said, when a man is nice to me, she goes, I know I probably shouldn't be saying this, but when he's too nice to me, it's a turn off. And then turns into another video of a guy holding flowers at a restaurant, who's taking a selfie video saying, I just got stood up by my date.

• 31:20Lewis Howes?

  Uh, you know, we were having a good conversation online when we were connecting. Uh, you know, I was taking the lead by choosing a restaurant that I thought she might be interested in by doing research on her profile and making suggestions. We were having great interactions. I was being very kind and generous with my attention. I brought flowers. I was on time and she stood me up. And I'm trying to be a thoughtful, generous, kind man. And I got stood up for it. So what is it that women actually want today, do you think? You know, and I know, and maybe this is just this one woman that was interviewed saying, when a guy's too nice to me, it's a turn off.

• 32:03Lewis Howes?

  But why is it sometimes it seems like when men are actually trying to be good leaders, trying to be providers, trying to show up and do a nice gesture. Here's some flowers, pick the restaurant. You know, show up well dressed and groomed. Why is that a turn off for some women?

• 32:20Matthew Hussey?

  Okay. I feel like there's a lot to say about this. Let's firstly, can we talk about the spent a lot of time looking at her profile, figuring out what she might like, picking a restaurant for the date, bringing flowers? Like, that raises a lot of questions for me.

• 32:36Lewis Howes?

  Okay. Well, let's say it was all good intentions, though. Let's say it was like.

• 32:39Matthew Hussey?

  No, no, no, but those are good, those might be good intentions. They, um, let's just take it that they were good intentions. It's still like, I don't know if that's nice. I don't know if that's nice. I think that that's like a, there's. That.

• 32:56Lewis Howes?

  It's like trying too hard or.

• 32:57Matthew Hussey?

  I mean, it, you know, if you've just been talking to someone and you haven't even been on a date with them yet. I mean, it's different if you were long distance talking with someone for a month. And you were having an amazing time with them and you were like having great phone conversations and FaceTimes and then you show up.

• 33:13Lewis Howes?

  Right, right, right.

• 33:14Matthew Hussey?

  The finally you get to meet in person and you've picked a restaurant you know they'll like because they've told you what food they're into. And you've brought flowers because you know what flowers they like at this stage and you know, you're, you're bringing them as because it's, it represents a connection that you already have. Then all of that feels more appropriate to me.

• 33:34Lewis Howes?

  Sure, sure.

• 33:34Matthew Hussey?

  But that feels like a kind of, a bit of a victimized, a guy victimizing himself. By saying, look at everything I did for a person who's sort of going to show up to that date and go, why did you do all of this? We don't even, we haven't even been on like a date before. We don't even really know we like each other. Why, why are you buying me flowers on a first date? It feels a bit like, I don't know a lot of people that would show up to a first date having put in all of that effort. And I would worry that anyone who puts in all of that effort for someone that they're just meeting up with to see if they like each other. I would worry about that person coming across a little bit creepy.

• 34:14Lewis Howes?

  Interesting. Okay.

• 34:15Matthew Hussey?

  So I think that that's a, and look, we're talking about a YouTube video. So you know, it's quite possible that someone did all of those things and then said, look. Women say they want a nice guy and then I brought flowers on a date and, but let's, but let's rewind for a second because you said the, the woman saying. Yeah. Now, look, I think that's, I think that's very honest and.

• 34:36Lewis Howes?

  And she was like, I shouldn't be saying this, but when he's too nice to me, it's kind of a turn off.

• 34:40Matthew Hussey?

  Yes. Now there's versions, you know, okay. There's the version of it I just said, which I think does indicate to a person like. There's something a bit off here about how hard you're trying at this stage.

• 34:56Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 34:57Matthew Hussey?

  Because I shouldn't.

• 34:58Lewis Howes?

  It could be too creepy.

• 34:59Matthew Hussey?

  I shouldn't get, I shouldn't be getting this amount of effort at this stage. And by the way, if I am getting this amount of effort at this stage. Here's what I know about you. This isn't really about me. Cause you don't know me.

• 35:09Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 35:10Matthew Hussey?

  So if you suddenly are, it's like a guy.

• 35:12Lewis Howes?

  It's like love bombing almost.

• 35:13Matthew Hussey?

  Yeah. And we, you know, love bombing is, is often, there's. There's can be a more manipulative or sinister aspect of love bombing that I kind of know what I'm doing. When I love, I think there's a very dark end of the spectrum with love bombing and there's a much more naive end of the spectrum with love bombing. The sort of dark end of the spectrum is someone who's really trying to get you to move faster than you would organically move so that they can extract a lot of attention and value and love from you very, very quickly.

• 35:43Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 35:44Matthew Hussey?

  But the more naive end of the love bombing spectrum, I think, happens with people who, you know, fall for someone very quickly and then because they've fallen for this person that they don't even know, they are now trying on a level that is completely unjustified because they're responding to the story they've created in their head, not the person they actually have in front of them. And when someone feels that, they are, they can sense that there's something off about this, that you don't really know me. We've exchanged texts.

• 36:20Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 36:21Matthew Hussey?

  You don't know who I am. You don't know what I'm into on a deeper level. You don't know what I'm like. You don't, you shouldn't really know that you like me this much yet. So given thi- this kind of flowers and poetry and whatever, and thi- this doesn't.

• 36:36Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 36:37Matthew Hussey?

  Thi- thi- this is actually a sign that you're projecting right now. And I don't like that you're projecting. It makes me feel strange because you're not really seeing me. And so, and if, by the way, if you could be feeling this about me right now, based on how little you know me, what it says to me is you could be feeling this about anybody next week.

• 36:54Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 36:55Matthew Hussey?

  So this is about you. It's not about me. So I, so, but I do want to go back to the, to the women, you know, saying they want a nice guy thing because, or that they might get turned off by someone who's too nice. So I think that's one version of being turned off because someone's too nice. We sense that their niceness is false.

• 37:11Lewis Howes?

  Gotcha. But what if someone is genuinely nice?

• 37:13Matthew Hussey?

  Yes.

• 37:13Lewis Howes?

  They're just maybe not mean to them, but they're not showing them poetry and flowers, but they're just attentive, kind.

• 37:19Matthew Hussey?

  That's a sign of, look, that's a sign of an unhealthy person in, in, if it's a woman saying it, it's a sign of an unhealthy woman. If it's a man saying it, it's a sign of an unhealthy man.

• 37:30Lewis Howes?

  What, what is a woman saying? What are they, what is a woman truly saying if they say, I don't like nice guys?

• 37:37Matthew Hussey?

  They're saying that my nervous system.

• 37:41Matthew Hussey?

  Does not produce the effect that I call love around people who do not send it into some kind of fight or flight response. Wow. It's there, there are, when I am met with someone who does not make me chase. When I am met with someone who doesn't make me feel I have to earn their love. Hmm. When I am met with someone who doesn't play games, doesn't give me anxiety by being consistent for three days and then dropping off the radar for five or a week.

• 38:28Matthew Hussey?

  When I am with someone who doesn't do those things, it doesn't feel like love to me. It does not feel like passion. It doesn't feel like fireworks. It doesn't feel like the thing that I think I'm supposed to feel. Wow. And, you know, there's obviously so much knowledge now on where those things come from and that there are old patterns in how we related to our caregivers or our parents or how they related to us that

• 39:02Matthew Hussey?

  that gets us used to a certain pattern. We get this nervous system imprint that is created at a very early point in life and we spend the rest of our lives replicating that if we're not careful. So the, the great kind of challenge, I think, for all of us. And this, this is true, by the way, of men too. Right? How many men relentlessly chase after women who don't seem to want them? Right. Who Reject them. Reject them, who treat them like they're disposable. Yeah. How many guys are playing the friend to a woman for years on end?

• 39:45Matthew Hussey?

  Who picks them up and puts them down whenever it suits her and they're doing it for years on end? This is not just a female pattern. This is a people pattern. Why is it that we respond to people who treat us poorly? Why do we think we do? Because there is something about it that is known to us. It is. Familiar. It's it's familiar and we don't realize it. We think it's we think we hate it. I hate it. I hate that this person doesn't want me. And if I could just get this person to want me, I'd feel good again. But

• 40:18Matthew Hussey?

  it what people often find is if that person truly turned around to meet you and gave you everything that you wanted from the beginning, it would have felt strange. Hmm. That there's something in this dynamic that is in a weird way, safe to you. Yes. It doesn't make you feel safe, but there's It's familiar. Some kind of safety in the familiar and and that's not our fault. We should exercise compassion towards ourselves for that because it's not our fault that these these really damaging and destructive patterns are things that we chase because they're it this was created at a time when we weren't deciding our response systems to things.

• 41:02Matthew Hussey?

  It was we were in survival mode. And, you know, there there's a um, I spoke to a woman recently, I did a show recently where the host of the show said, I really struggled to have hard conversations with people. Like if I have to have a heart and a big part of this book is like I have a whole section on how to have hard conversations. Because by the way, every relationship is shaped i i is is is is made in the crucible of hard conversations. Right? Can you have the difficult conversation? Can you say the thing you're afraid to say? And can you express your need without fearing that if you do, something bad will happen?

• 41:46Matthew Hussey?

  And so many of the times people end up in painful relationships or not even relationships. They end up in painful dynamics or they end up in limbo with someone where it never ends up as a relationship. It's always casual is because they're afraid to have the hard conversations. There was this woman that was part one of the hosts of the show. And it was, and she said to me, I really struggle to have hard conversations and I don't know why I just, you know, every time I go to have a hard conversation, it's like I break out in sweats and I panic and I'm, you know, she said, it's just, it wasn't the, in my family, like, no one's really ever had hard conversations, she said,

• 42:24Matthew Hussey?

  and she didn't realize what she was saying as she said it, but she said, you know, I mean, it's like my dad, for example, if I try to have a hard conversation with him, he just leaves the room. Right. And I, and she kept going, but she didn't realize what she had said, which is, your entire life, because that wasn't a pattern your dad started yesterday, right? Your dad's most likely been like that since the day you were born. So what you learned is that if you tried to have a hard conversation with your father,

• 42:55Matthew Hussey?

  he would leave the room. He would abandon you. So now you have what therapists call a core abandonment wound, right? That's a, this is something that's now with you. And you wonder why with this person that you're on date free with, who shouldn't even be that important to you, why it feels hard to articulate that, you know, you are disappointed that they showed up half hour late to the date, or that they didn't text you for a week, and then all of a sudden like reached out out of nowhere to say, do you want to do something in one hour?

• 43:33Matthew Hussey?

  And then you went without expressing that, like, hey, we had two great dates and then you would, like, I didn't hear from you for a week and now you're like, are you ready in an hour? The reason she didn't express that is, and the reason it made her so terrified to express it, un, irrationally terrified, is because in her world, it's been perfectly rational. It's not, this is where compassion comes in, because we're very good at calling ourselves crazy. Like, I feel crazy. Why am I so scared of having this conversation? Or we get called crazy by other people. That's a favorite thing to call people. Ah, she was crazy. Ah, they're crazy. Like, you can't believe what they tried to do, or what they said to me.

• 44:19Matthew Hussey?

  They're not crazy. Something happened. They experienced something in their world at a time when it was their reality. It was her reality, growing up.

• 44:35Matthew Hussey?

  That, and I'm, you know, I'm extrapolating here, but like I said, if she's saying that about her dad, almost certainly her dad didn't start doing that last week.

• 44:43Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 44:44Matthew Hussey?

  He's been doing it her whole life.

• 44:47Matthew Hussey?

  It was real for her that there was a time in her life where if she tried to express a need with her father or tell him something that she wasn't happy with, or something that she'd like him to do more of or less of, or a way that he'd hurt her, he would not be able to have the conversation and he would leave. That, when you're a child, that poses a real threat to you.

• 45:09Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 45:10Matthew Hussey?

  So what she's feeling now is rational for her in her world, based on where she came from. We look at it from the outside and go, I can't believe that she would be so afraid to say this thing. And she's going to end up in a two-year relationship with someone who never meets any of her needs, who doesn't even know what her needs are, who she resents deep down because it's like he never thinks of me.

• 45:35Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 45:36Matthew Hussey?

  But she's terrified to have that conversation because for her, if she has a hard conversation, it means abandonment. And abandonment means, on an emotional level, not a logical level, she might not survive.

• 45:47Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 45:48Matthew Hussey?

  And so when someone says, I struggle, I find it a turn off when someone is nice. They are articulating a deep, deep pattern that has been there for a long time in their life.

• 46:09Lewis Howes?

  And what I'm hearing you say is, we just need more grace in general for ourselves and others.

• 46:13Speaker 03

  No, we don't just need more grace. We still need more order. We still need to stop being and more accountability and more self-accountability, more like less hypocrisy and more like organizing for what the actual end goal is here. What are the big things we're fighting for? Let's stop like focusing in on the minutia. So work on the big things that hurt everyone in our society. And let's work together on that, let's organise. And then on top of that, in order to be able to do that, you need more grace. Doesn't mean you can't criticize each other.

• 46:47Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 46:48Speaker 03

  It doesn't mean you can't get pissed off with one another, it doesn't mean you can't fight. It just means that the fight has to end at some point.

• 46:57Speaker 03

  There has to be a road back. We have to allow for a space for atonement.

• 47:06Speaker 03

  And we have to recognise that there is a part of us that enjoys watching other people fail and do something wrong and make mistakes, because then we don't have to think about all the terrible mistakes and terrible thoughts that we've made.

• 47:21Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 47:22Speaker 03

  And all the mistakes we've made. It's like, oh, good, everyone's looking at them, so no one's looking at me.

• 47:27Lewis Howes?

  Right, right, right.

• 47:28Speaker 03

  And so the reason dog piles happen mostly is not because everyone cares that much about that thing. We can see that the thing that we want to say has been said a thousand times. But we want to loudly, from a tribal perspective, from a tribal place, rather, we want to loudly exclaim our disapproval so that we announce which tribe we're on. We want to say, I'm with the bigger crowd, so don't include me in any of that. I just want to, we want to be safe. We want to be in the tribe. We don't want to be left on our own to be eaten alive.

• 48:01Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 48:02Speaker 03

  And what I feel very sad about is that more and more, when someone gets into trouble for something that isn't like egregious physical violence.

• 48:12Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 48:13Speaker 03

  The kind of thing where they've really destroyed someone's life where that person might never recover.

• 48:20Speaker 03

  We just leave them for dead. When I got piled on to, I got left for dead. And racists and bigots and misogynists were all able to come for me. And no one from my side stepped in.

• 48:34Lewis Howes?

  How is that?

• 48:34Speaker 03

  And then as soon as I overcame it, everyone came back.

• 48:37Lewis Howes?

  Why is that?

• 48:37Speaker 03

  Everyone came back and it was like it never happened. And they were like, oh, I'm so glad you came back through that thing. And I got Marvel and then I was back on the cover of Vogue and I was having a great time. And all of a sudden, all my friends came rushing, not my like real friends, they never left me.

• 48:49Lewis Howes?

  Celebrity friends.

• 48:50Speaker 03

  But all these, all these people, all these media figures were suddenly all over me wanting to be in pictures again. And I was like.

• 48:57Lewis Howes?

  Isn't that interesting?

• 48:58Speaker 03

  Yeah. And so, you know, sometimes I now get into trouble for trying to show public grace to someone in a moment of their disgrace. And I understand why I get into trouble for that.

• 49:08Speaker 03

  But this is, it might be my mistake.

• 49:12Speaker 03

  But I'm not afraid of mistakes.

• 49:14Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 49:15Speaker 03

  I, I believe in my heart right now that love and extending a tiny bit of grace or hope to someone is the best way for them to come back from that thing.

• 49:27Lewis Howes?

  Come on.

• 49:27Speaker 03

  And do better.

• 49:28Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 49:29Speaker 03

  And that seeing someone go from doing something bad to doing something better is much more healthy and helpful for our society than just watching them disappear.

• 49:36Lewis Howes?

  Hundred percent.

• 49:37Speaker 03

  Seeing change, seeing change. My audience love watching me change. They love that I used to be an misogynist and I, you know, I'm growing less and less problematic as time, as time goes on. But they enjoy the fact that they're watching me become not only a better person, but happier.

• 49:57Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 49:58Speaker 03

  Happier, healthier, allowing myself to fail, like getting rid of the shackles of the perfection that women are held up to, like the standards of perfection that women are held up to. I've never felt more at peace. I've never felt more love. I've never felt more connected. I've never been more open to a fist bump. I'm English, but I'll take it.

• 50:22Speaker 03

  But I've never felt more connected to the world. And I think a large part of our loneliness as a society is coming from the fact that we are starting to, we're being trained and encouraged by social media and media and algorithms to look at each other as enemies. We are not each other's enemies. There are people far more powerful whose names we don't know deliberately, who are controlling all of this and making us stare at each other rather than looking for them.

• 50:48Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 50:50Speaker 03

  And I want to go after them.

• 50:53Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 50:53Speaker 03

  So expect, now that I've said that, that to be another huge random media scandal.

• 50:59Lewis Howes?

  This is powerful. I'm curious, where do you think you'd be if you didn't have the, uh, you know, the attacks of everyone coming at you in 2020? Where do you think you'd be right now without that experience, that sadness, that loneliness, that loss of, oh, I thought these people were my friends and then they left and then they came back and?

• 51:16Speaker 03

  I think I'd be in a fairly similar place.

• 51:18Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 51:19Speaker 03

  I really do. I think when it comes to noticing and fighting for. Um, the way that we elevate women just to drag them down. I think that's what that taught me.

• 51:28Lewis Howes?

  Uh huh. Cause you experienced it.

• 51:30Speaker 03

  And I think I might be less inclined to reach out to someone in a moment of disgrace. That would be something that would be different.

• 51:37Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 51:37Speaker 03

  I think I would be the way everyone else is, which is all, I don't wanna catch it. I don't wanna be nice to them or like anything or keep following them in case anyone drags me into this. I wanna be in the tribe. But what you do is you leave someone so isolated that then they feel hopeless and, you know.

• 51:54Lewis Howes?

  Bad things happen.

• 51:55Speaker 03

  Yeah, people have died. I know people have died. I almost died.

• 51:58Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 51:58Speaker 03

  I almost truly died.

• 52:01Speaker 03

  I can't believe I'm still here.

• 52:02Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 52:03Speaker 03

  And had I not lived with my best friends and my boyfriend and not had the kindness of the people, you know, around me and medication that I'm no longer on, but I needed in that moment. I'd, I'd be dead.

• 52:16Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 52:16Speaker 03

  For sure. It isn't. I understand that people look at public figures as like, well, you've got this money and this power and definitely true. Yes. It's not the same as when it happens to someone who works in a shop or a store in a school, which does happen. It doesn't just happen to them. That's the other thing. We think this stuff just happens to famous people. What happens is it bleeds into our culture and it permeates our culture. It happens to people who we never hear about. It happens to people in schools, in, you know, uh, in their workplace and they get ostracized and they lose their job. And they have no other means. They've got no way to, they can't even afford a therapist to all of it.

• 52:51Speaker 03

  The kids are watching and they're learning. But I think other than that, I think I would be at the same place when it comes to division because

• 52:57Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 52:59Speaker 03

  The, the pandemic shifted something in our society globally. Uh, and the loss of women's rights. And the hatred that we're seeing now, we're not seeing people disagree with each other's opinions. We're seeing real visceral hatred.

• 53:16Lewis Howes?

  Evil hatred, yeah.

• 53:17Speaker 03

  Yeah. And we're seeing mockery of each other that I don't think is very helpful, that I totally participated in before. You know, just a few years ago, if some man was incredibly degrading to me on Twitter, I would call him an incel. I look back and I'm like.

• 53:31Lewis Howes?

  Call them what?

• 53:32Speaker 03

  An incel.

• 53:33Lewis Howes?

  An incel.

• 53:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, you know, when someone's involuntary celibate. Without really thinking about like, yes, he shouldn't have degraded me. And yes, he should never have spoken to me in that sexist and disgusting way. But my calling him an incel just lowers me to his level. And is actually perpetuating a really cruel, unkind message about men who feel lonely. So then I suck.

• 53:55Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 53:56Speaker 03

  And so I stopped doing that a few years ago. Like I'm.

• 53:58Lewis Howes?

  That's good.

• 53:59Speaker 03

  But I, you know, it's not like, I'm not like.

• 54:02Lewis Howes?

  Right, right, right.

• 54:03Speaker 03

  It's just.

• 54:04Lewis Howes?

  It's good you're aware of it and you're acknowledging it and you're, you know.

• 54:06Speaker 03

  But it's like slap down, smack down, own the libs, own the Republicans. You know, even liberals, these videos they make where they go out into these countries, these parts of the country where they've, where a lot of these people, they're not from the same metropolitan cities we are, they're not exposed to the same news or algorithms that we are. They are largely ignored by both coasts. Until suddenly someone's got a microphone and they want to go and interview some seventy year old.

• 54:35Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 54:36Speaker 03

  Republican man who's a farmer. And ask him his opinions on these very new topics of discussion. And he might give an ill-informed or outdated answer. And then the way we laugh and it goes viral and everyone loves it and we just on them. What message does that send?

• 54:58Speaker 03

  What does that say? To everyone watching that says, we think you're idiots.

• 55:03Lewis Howes?

  You're less than.

• 55:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, you're less than. They think we're idiots. We are all, everyone, right now, being idiots. Because we're, we're fighting the wrong target. When none of us are smarter or better than each other, we're all just informed differently. And the faster we can all work to explain that to people, the faster we will bring people together into a much healthier and happier society. And that's where I want my work to, everything I'm doing is now towards mental health.

• 55:33Lewis Howes?

  I was just going to mention that because with your, with your show, your podcast, I Way, which is a great show that I've been on and I think I've seen the evolution of it, which is inspiring to see that it's focused more on mental health now. And I think something you said, which is self accountability, um, self-control, mental health and inter, your own healing are the things that I think when we work on those things.

• 55:59Lewis Howes?

  Everything gets better because then you can interpret things better. You can pause, you can give people grace, you can give yourself grace. You can, as opposed to just, I'm angry, I'm lashing out because I'm hurt.

• 56:09Speaker 03

  And I'm afraid.

• 56:10Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 56:11Speaker 03

  Everyone feels afraid all the time. It's really bad for your nervous system. It's neurologically terrible. You know, we've had doctors on my podcast come on and explain that mistakes are the way, the most effective way for somebody to learn. That's how neurologically your brain is more likely to implement and keep information. We've made people afraid of mistakes. We've made people afraid of everything.

• 56:30Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 56:31Speaker 03

  And people feel so afraid of and isolated and judged by each other. It's not good. And so what I weigh has been more focusing on is me reaching across to people who are less and less like me. And wanting to engage in civil discourse.

• 56:46Lewis Howes?

  Inspiring.

• 56:47Speaker 03

  And wanting to expose new ideas that are away from group think. And just challenge them sometimes, but respectfully.

• 56:53Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, of course.

• 56:54Speaker 03

  Or sometimes have my mind opened.

• 56:57Lewis Howes?

  What's the thing that's opened your mind the most from someone that maybe you said, I don't think I'm going to learn much from this person. But I'm curious to see what they have to say and maybe I'd be open. What, who shocked you or what idea opened you up?

• 57:09Speaker 03

  I think the thing that has probably taken me by surprise the most has been neurologists. In that it's not that I went in with any kind of preemptive decision of what I was gonna hear. But I had no idea how much neurology, how much brain science actually informs our personality.

• 57:30Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 57:30Speaker 03

  And informs our behavior and informs our anxiety and informs our depression. I had no idea about the way that we are wired and how much that could, and how, what we eat and what we drink and how much we sleep. I always thought, yeah, yeah, I get it. I get it. Exercise.

• 57:45Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 57:46Speaker 03

  Hate exercise.

• 57:47Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, don't drink alcohol, yada, yada, yada.

• 57:49Speaker 03

  It's like, yeah, I get it. It's completely transformed my life. I've been listening to these people. I've been learning about glucose and I've been learning about daily exercise and I'm mortified to admit that it's made me happier than I've ever been. I'm mortified.

• 58:05Lewis Howes?

  Cause you were like, screw this stuff.

• 58:07Speaker 03

  I'm furious. I hate sweating. I think it's disgusting.

• 58:10Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 58:11Speaker 03

  But I've been exercising, you know, a little bit every single day. I've been bringing my audience along for the ride because obviously we were a kind of very clear anti-diet culture space. It was, you know, it's where a lot of eating disorder recoverers.

• 58:23Lewis Howes?

  Sure, sure.

• 58:24Speaker 03

  You know, where a lot of people who've had eating disorders come to, you know, what we've created as a safe haven for eating disorders. And so exercise is a really tricky conversation for most people.

• 58:34Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 58:35Speaker 03

  Cause there's so much shame around exercise.

• 58:36Lewis Howes?

  It's not a healthy version. It's more of an extreme version to get you in.

• 58:39Speaker 03

  It's all for the, it's all for the external. It's all for the vanity.

• 58:43Lewis Howes?

  But when you know the power of your brain and how helpful it is for that, which helps you heal, calm, feel differently.

• 58:49Speaker 03

  It changes everything. But our focus is, you know, look at the exercise attire that men and women are expected to wear, especially women with the bra and like the the light colored leggings. And that's fine. Everyone should just do themselves.

• 59:02Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 59:03Speaker 03

  Not everyone, not everyone feels comfortable exercising. I don't want to bend over and see what I look like bending over in a mirror. I had an eating disorder for 20 years. I have body dysmorphia. That's going to make me not want to go again the next day. Cause I'm going to go into a place of judgment. And, you know, we also, again, we want instant results, instant results. It takes a long time.

• 59:21Lewis Howes?

  It takes a long time.

• 59:22Speaker 03

  Not that long. Not as long as you think, but it takes like six months.

• 59:26Lewis Howes?

  It's not three weeks out, six back. It's like six months minimum to really start seeing.

• 59:31Speaker 03

  I remember when I was 24, I walked into my friend who's a personal trainer, who then went on to train me for Marvel, Al Jackson. I walked into his gym when I was 24. I was like, how long would it take me to get an eye like Nicole Scherzinger? And he looked at my and he was like, about three months. And I was like, no, never mind. I walked out.

• 59:51Lewis Howes?

  Even three months is not that, it's not that long.

• 59:54Speaker 03

  Amazing.

• 59:54Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 59:54Speaker 03

  You're probably lying. It was probably gonna be, he's gonna sneak me into a six, but, but still. I heard that and I was like, well, there's not two weeks. I don't have time for that.

• 1:00:02Lewis Howes?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 1:00:03Speaker 03

  Classic, classic of our generation.

• 1:00:05Lewis Howes?

  Like, I'm just not gonna work that at all. Yeah.

• 1:00:07Speaker 03

  But when you think about the neurological benefits of exercise and the fact that within ten to fifteen minutes, you have endorphins, you have happy chemicals going through your brain that are de-stressing you, making it more likely for you to be able to sleep that night, de-stressing you. You immediately feel better than you felt beforehand. And then if you keep that up every day, within a week or two, your life starts to genuinely feel differently. And so I've been trying to bring my audience along with me on this journey doing that. It's called Move For Your Mind.

• 1:00:33Lewis Howes?

  How, how dare you? How dare you exercise? You know, how dare you enjoy it?

• 1:00:37Speaker 03

  But I found a way that is like in baggy clothes, eating sugary snacks. So we can divorce the idea of calories out, calories in. We're going against all of exercise culture and all of diet culture because exercise culture and diet culture are just married now. Um, and so we are, we've kind of created this slightly anarchist rebellious, like, exercise.

• 1:00:54Lewis Howes?

  Don't work out, but make sure you're moving. Yeah, yes.

• 1:00:57Speaker 03

  But you can look ridicu- I look ridiculous. I have no, I have no, like, swag, you know? I don't know if that's the right word.

• 1:01:04Lewis Howes?

  Don't work out for Instagram. Don't work out for Instagram. Work out for yourself.

• 1:01:07Speaker 03

  See that. But like dance in your kitchen, do things that are free. Lift water bottles, lift your dog, lift your child. You know, uh, go for a walk every day. Do simple things. Buy a, buy a three hundred dollar walking machine, which might be expensive for some people. Some people it might be affordable. So if you're a woman and you're afraid of walking at night, I walk on that and I watch my favorite TV shows. And then I get my half an hour a day and then I feel amazing and I have a great night's sleep.

• 1:01:30Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:01:31Speaker 03

  I sound smug and disgusting. I hate myself. I promised myself I would never be this person.

• 1:01:35Lewis Howes?

  You're a healthy person.

• 1:01:37Speaker 03

  An exercising person, but we're trying to find unpretentious, fun and welcoming ways for people at any size or with any disability or any stage of pregnancy to join us and not feel ostracized.

• 1:01:46Lewis Howes?

  That's cool.

• 1:01:47Speaker 03

  Cause we still, I mean, whenever there's a, like a plus size line for exercise workout, the world goes mad.

• 1:01:53Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 1:01:54Speaker 03

  So what did you want them to wear when they were exercising? You want these people to exercise and work out and be healthy? What do you want? To be naked in the gym? The gyms are not a very friendly space. So it's just about finding an alternative way to democratize exercise.

• 1:02:08Lewis Howes?

  That's cool.

• 1:02:08Speaker 03

  And bring it back to the people. It was ours. It got industrialized like a matter of decades ago and turned into this exclusive club. Where you have a uniform, a new uniform.

• 1:02:20Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, unless you're playing a professional sport.

• 1:02:22Speaker 03

  Honestly, where you have this uniform that's getting sexier and sexier and sexier every year for both, for all the genders. And, and it's becoming more and more about just becoming a billboard for other people. No one's thinking about the inside. It's all very punitive. It's a punitive. Like no pain, no gain is the stupidest slogan of our generation. One off.

• 1:02:42Lewis Howes?

  Right. Well, it's also with men. It's like you just see men just shirtless everywhere or just shredded and probably on steroids or. Human growth hormone. And so they're just like so ripped. They're just like, most men are like, I could never get to that.

• 1:02:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, but that. Get to happy.

• 1:03:00Lewis Howes?

  Right, exactly.

• 1:03:01Speaker 03

  That person might be struggling with an eating disorder or some sort of body dysmorphia or psoriasis. You know, you don't need to, we don't know what everyone's story is. Just focus on being happier in an hour than you are right now.

• 1:03:12Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:12Speaker 03

  Feeling autonomous. So, so many of us don't feel autonomous in the world because there's so much chaos and we're doom scrolling and we're. Looking at how the world is falling apart and our kids are changing faster than we were at their age. And everyone feels so like, oh my God, it feels like I'm in quicksand all of the time. So it's a quick way to immediately feel like, okay, my feet are back on the ground. And it's just temporary, but then you do it again.

• 1:03:34Lewis Howes?

  Absolutely.

• 1:03:36Speaker 03

  And so that's a big part of what we're doing over at I Way is exercise culture, but also neurology and learning that.

• 1:03:42Lewis Howes?

  That's cool.

• 1:03:42Speaker 03

  You can really make fundamental, quick changes, that it doesn't just have to be medication. I'm pro medication. And it doesn't just having to be access to the best therapy, which no one can afford en masse. There are so many ways you can rewire your own brain. And I think these people, people like Dr. Caroline Leaf,

• 1:04:01Lewis Howes?

  She's great.

• 1:04:01Speaker 03

  who was on our podcast are fantastic and important. And they're about no longer succumbing just to Big Pharma, but giving the power back to the people to have autonomy and their own recovery.

• 1:04:12Lewis Howes?

  Absolutely.

• 1:04:12Speaker 03

  It's empowering.

• 1:04:13Lewis Howes?

  That's inspiring. So what I'm hearing you say is that when you started to talk to neurologists or brain scientists, you started to learn these ideas just make you happier and healthier overall. Um, and so you started, you know, mortifying yourself by doing these things.

• 1:04:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:04:28Lewis Howes?

  And you started to see results.

• 1:04:29Speaker 03

  On Instagram Live, yeah.

• 1:04:30Lewis Howes?

  And you started to see results.

• 1:04:31Speaker 03

  Yeah, I'm happier than I've ever been.

• 1:04:33Lewis Howes?

  I noticed it.

• 1:04:33Speaker 03

  I'm way nicer than I used to be. You see it.

• 1:04:36Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, exactly. I could feel the energy right away when you walked in here, I go, something has shifted within you.

• 1:04:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:04:42Lewis Howes?

  Now that you're bad before, I, I said, it was just like,

• 1:04:44Speaker 03

  No, but I'm defensive.

• 1:04:45Lewis Howes?

  You had a more of an aggressive energy, right?

• 1:04:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, I was defensive and I think there's nothing wrong with a little bit of female aggression, but I do think that what I had was more of a defensive energy.

• 1:04:54Lewis Howes?

  That's what it was.

• 1:04:54Speaker 03

  Again, I was flying so high and everyone was congratulating me so much that I was like, I was just waiting for the shoe to drop. And also everyone, every podcast I went on, someone was trying to trap me or, you know, and so I didn't know what you were gonna be like. Like, I didn't know what anyone was gonna be like.

• 1:05:10Lewis Howes?

  Hopefully you didn't think I were trying to trap you.

• 1:05:11Speaker 03

  No, you were great. I had you on my podcast. We had a great time. It's just, I, I just didn't know who to trust. I knew that the, the other shoe was gonna drop at any moment and I, and I just didn't know when it was gonna happen and I had this anxiety. And I think also because everything was happening so fast and because I had that anxiety, I think that also accounts for some of my worst, like my poorer decisions with things that I said publicly, subjects I waded into. Why am I talking about global conflict? Do I know about global conflict? But I felt pressured to because people are like, your silence on this is deafening. And so you're like, I don't want them to think I don't care or what, this and I care about their country, but I don't know anything about their country.

• 1:05:45Lewis Howes?

  That's one of the biggest things when people say, I can't believe we're not supporting this or this or this or this. And you not saying something means you don't support it.

• 1:05:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:05:52Lewis Howes?

  And I'm like, maybe I just don't know what to say.

• 1:05:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, and you're expected, because I know this, the one thing about eating disorders, I'm expected to know everything about everything. And my bad for trying to jump in when I didn't know, because I only ever created more mess and for some reason, the media like, I can, and it can make a headline. So like, eh, like, and I don't know why. Like, but they, they, they know that I'm divisive. They know I'm controversial. They know that I'm outspoken.

• 1:06:19Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:20Speaker 03

  They, they, and then they further polarize me by making the headline as egregious as possible and violent as possible. It's always Jamila Jamel slams. And often I've just said a really thoughtful thing with like a love heart.

• 1:06:28Lewis Howes?

  Right, right, right, right.

• 1:06:30Speaker 03

  Sometimes.

• 1:06:30Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. What did it feel like to you when, you know, you had people that were maybe seemed like friends or acquaintances? But when you were going through your stuff in the media and people, you know, went against you or just stopped talking to you for a period of time? How did they make you feel? And how?

• 1:06:49Lewis Howes?

  Is your relationship with certain people like that, once they started to come back around?

• 1:06:55Speaker 03

  They'll never be back on the inside ever. And I think it can be helpful in moments like that. As heartbreaking as they are, because it was heartbreaking.

• 1:07:03Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I know the feeling.

• 1:07:04Speaker 03

  You felt very like, you feel very betrayed and you also like judge your own sense of judgment. You question yourself, which is never a nice, it's a shaky feeling when you, when you can't trust your gut instinct. But um, truly, it's also an extraordinary magnifying glass of clarity that I'm so grateful for. Because I have this extraordinary pool of people now left, who I know have got my back, who don't care. Who don't look at the internet, uh, who challenge me when I'm wrong with grace and love. And they maintain the most fundamental quality that I think we all need, which is to have the benefit of the doubt.

• 1:07:40Lewis Howes?

  Hundred percent.

• 1:07:41Speaker 03

  It's the benefit of the doubt is going to carry us to a better society.

• 1:07:46Lewis Howes?

  Yes, it is.

• 1:07:46Speaker 03

  We have lost the benefit of the doubt, especially for women. We have reserved quite a lot of it for men, but even then, we assume people's worst intentions and that's not the world that I grew up in.

• 1:07:57Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. And if we're modeling this to our kids, what do we expect them to do? Have great values and, you know, be open to conversation?

• 1:08:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, but what's a great value? The values that are correct keep changing. So what's a great, what's a great value? What does inclusion look like? What does diversity of friendship groups look like?

• 1:08:17Speaker 03

  Debate is the is the foundation of democracy.

• 1:08:21Lewis Howes?

  We've stopped that.

• 1:08:22Speaker 03

  Disagreement, rather, is the foundation of democracy.

• 1:08:25Lewis Howes?

  We've stopped debating.

• 1:08:25Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:08:26Lewis Howes?

  We just said, no, I'm not gonna listen to you.

• 1:08:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:08:28Lewis Howes?

  I was gonna yell at you, and now this didn't go.

• 1:08:31Speaker 03

  Yeah, I just, like I said, I've done it before, got me nowhere. Didn't make me feel good, made me feel really lonely and sad and alienated me from people. And I don't want to be alienated from people.

• 1:08:40Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:41Speaker 03

  I wanna.

• 1:08:41Lewis Howes?

  You wanna be friends, you wanna be with the people.

• 1:08:43Speaker 03

  I want us to be together. Yeah, I don't want to have children, but this work is my way of of making the world easier for my friends who are having children.

• 1:08:52Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 1:08:54Speaker 03

  If I can make it a safer world for their kids, then that makes up for the fact that I refuse to be godmother.

• 1:09:01Lewis Howes?

  Really, I'll tell you what, I'm I'm I'm inspired by just the journey you're on. You know, I'm inspired, I'm inspired that you got to experience so much in the last six, seven years. You got to experience a rise of fame quickly. And you did some things that you were proud of, but also things you weren't proud of. And you learned from them. Um, you know, I'm glad you got to experience people for you and then against you. Because you learn from them, and I feel like you're a better person because of that, and you have more perspective now. And at the end of the day, you've got a lot of grace for yourself and grace for others. And it sounds to me like you want people to come together, you want people to be open minded. Uh, you also want people to be accountable for their actions.

• 1:09:46Lewis Howes?

  And you want people to focus on their mental health and their optimizing of their own mental health, optimizing their own physical body and their spiritual health. They can have more peace and grace for themselves and others. That's what I'm hearing.

• 1:09:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, we talk about mental health so much now in society, and it's a big part of the zeitgeist. But I still think we're talking about it from not quite the right angle. We're still talking about it as though like, this would be a good thing to have on an individual basis. Wouldn't it be nice if you had, if you could make your mortgage payments and look after your kids and take them to all the practices and do all of this for everyone? But then also not want to kill yourself. It's definitely still seen as a surplus, whereas actually it should be the foundation of everything that we are going to. I can't believe mental health is not free in this country. I cannot believe it's not free in every single country, it is in many countries. But this should, this is how we increase our GDP. People can work healthier.

• 1:10:35Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:35Speaker 03

  People can be healthier. They will be in the hospital less if they are happier because stress and loneliness and all these different things are huge factors as to what destroys people's health and immune systems. It would change the amount of people having to go in psychiatric care. It would change the amount of homelessness there is. Uh, it would change the way that we treat each other as a society. Like it would change everything. That's where the money should go. All the money should go there. If we could all as a world put the money instead of in the military only into mental health. If we could take some of those trillions and put it towards making the people and the children happier and having children have access to mental health. We wouldn't need so much military.

• 1:11:18Speaker 03

  There wouldn't be so much war. We wouldn't need the police as often as we do. We wouldn't need as many.

• 1:11:23Lewis Howes?

  Drugs or whatever else.

• 1:11:24Speaker 03

  As many drugs or as many different things that we have now to try and like numb the pain and help people escape from the pain.

• 1:11:31Lewis Howes?

  I agree.

• 1:11:32Speaker 03

  We would be so into our phones. And a lot of people who make a lot of money from us doing that know that. They don't make the move to improve our mental health. And so we have to do it ourselves. And people like us have to tell people.

• 1:11:46Lewis Howes?

  I'm loving this message.

• 1:11:48Speaker 03

  I just think.

• 1:11:48Lewis Howes?

  Inspired by this message.

• 1:11:49Speaker 03

  I think it's the most important thing in the world and it's still treated as like a luxury.

• 1:11:52Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:53Speaker 03

  Rather than a fundamental. And it should be the same as brushing your teeth or, you know, getting out in the sun or whatever.

• 1:11:58Lewis Howes?

  Sure, sure.

• 1:11:59Speaker 03

  As opposed to eating good food.

• 1:12:03Lewis Howes?

  So I'm, I'm like.

• 1:12:04Speaker 03

  We didn't know what we were going to talk about today.

• 1:12:06Lewis Howes?

  I'm just, I keep them inspired by this because, you know, I just love seeing the journey. I didn't know this is where you were at fully. So for you coming in, I was just like, wow, this is really inspiring. I have a couple of final questions for you um, that I think, well, I know I asked you the first time on the show. And so I'm really fascinated to hear what the response is to them. And if it's the same or if it's changed from the last time.

• 1:12:29Speaker 03

  I don't remember what I said, so you'll get honest on.

• 1:12:31Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, well, we'll link that back up so people can see the last one also. But um, I'll ask that in a second.

• 1:12:37Lewis Howes?

  But I want people to check out your shows. You got I Way, you got Bad Dates, which is hilarious. You're on social media, Jamila Jamil on Instagram, TikTok, Twitter, everywhere. IWayCommunity.com. How else can we follow or support you with what you're up to right now?

• 1:12:53Speaker 03

  I think just join me at I Way or join me on my social media. Join the mental health movement. I think that we really have an opportunity to change the future of marketing and mental health and include more people. Listen to I Way. It's a great podcast on neurology and mental health that offers you the autonomy to take it into your own hands. Listen to Bad Dates if you want to feel better about your own romantic life. It is the most disgusting and filthy and funny podcast with extraordinary comedians who give way too much information about their personal lives and sex lives. And again, it's the much needed escapism. I'm able to provide information and the sad stuff and then the escapism. So I hope people listen to it because it is just an amazing vacation for your mind.

• 1:13:33Lewis Howes?

  That's great.

• 1:13:34Speaker 03

  It's purely.

• 1:13:34Lewis Howes?

  And we need comedy.

• 1:13:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:13:36Lewis Howes?

  Comedy is one of the best medicines, you know?

• 1:13:38Speaker 03

  Hundred percent. Saved my life.

• 1:13:39Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, that's a great. Okay, so both those shows, Bad Dates, I Way. I'm inspired. I want to hear these final few questions. Before I ask the final two questions, I want to acknowledge you, Jamila, for again, the journey, transformation, the, the, it's really more, not a transformation, more the awareness that you have about yourself. And who you've been, where you're at now, or where you're going. And I really just love that you have that awareness for you, that you've been on a healing journey, that you're able to see things from a different perspective. And for me, that's really inspiring. I think it's inspiring when I can do that and anyone can do that. So I'm inspired by the journey you're on and it's really cool to see you right now in this space. Because most importantly, you're happy and you're healthy.

• 1:14:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:14:20Lewis Howes?

  And that's for me, really inspiring to see you in a space like that.

• 1:14:23Speaker 03

  It also, speaking of cancel culture, goes to show that like, when people criticize you, some good can come from it. Even if I didn't always make a public notes apology statement about everything, I was listening.

• 1:14:33Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:34Speaker 03

  I was listening when people pulled me out. And so I make this tweak sometimes privately.

• 1:14:39Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:39Speaker 03

  Because sometimes it's easier to make change privately. And we need to become aware that it's okay to have a learning journey privately.

• 1:14:47Lewis Howes?

  Absolutely.

• 1:14:47Speaker 03

  You do not have to share every single thing. I'm not going to have a pap smear on my live IG. Like, I need to, I need to look after my brain.

• 1:14:55Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:14:56Speaker 03

  Privately with space and, and mess.

• 1:14:58Lewis Howes?

  You don't need an opinion from every person on everything you do.

• 1:15:00Speaker 03

  And, and everyone doesn't have to be privy to every single thing about all of our lives. So it's a very big like misconception about how we're supposed to conduct ourselves because of how much some people choose to share on social media. But I'm listening and I'm changing. But also the people who spoke to me constructively were the ones who got in. And the people who almost pushed me over the edge and killed me or made me so angry that I didn't want to fight for anyone and give up were the people who abused me. I didn't need to be sent death threats or rape threats or threats that I'm going to be ostracized or that people are going to boycott me or call for me to be fired. I didn't need that change. The people who spoke to me kindly and with peace and with the best of intention, who had the, who believed in me to change are the ones who changed me.

• 1:15:44Lewis Howes?

  That's cool.

• 1:15:45Speaker 03

  So criticism can be fantastic. I am a product of that criticism, but from love.

• 1:15:50Lewis Howes?

  Caustic criticism.

• 1:15:51Speaker 03

  Those are the people that helped me. The other people did nothing but cause me stress and almost make me give up on everything, including my own life.

• 1:16:00Lewis Howes?

  I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me personally, as well as ad free listening, then make sure to subscribe to our greatness plus channel exclusively on Apple podcasts. Share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on Apple podcasts as well. Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review. I really love hearing feedback from you and it helps us figure out how we can support and serve you moving forward. And I want to remind you, if no one has told you lately, that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter.

• 1:16:44Lewis Howes?

  And now it's time to go out there and do something great.