20VC: Why We Will See A Big Series B Crunch? Why Proprietary Data Pools & AI Talent Will Be The New Limited Natural Resources? Why Now Is The Closest Thing To A New Normal with Tim Chang, Managing Director @ Mayfield Fund

Tim Chang is a Managing Director @ Mayfield Fund and Tim was referred to me by many other VCs as 'the fittest man in silicon Valley', notable tech publications even write it. His eclecticness does not stop there as he is also a musician in 3 bands and a serious body hacker. As for his investments, he has had AdChina (acquired by Alibaba), Playdom (acquired by Disney) and Basis (acquired by Intel) just to name a few. Prior to Mayfield, he spent time at notable institutions including General Motors and Norwest Venture Partners. It is not only us that appreciate Tim’s skills though as he has also been named to ‘Top 100 Innovators’ on Forbes Midas List for 2 years running. In Today’s Episode You Will Learn: 1.) How Tim made his way into the wonderful world of VC following Stanford Business School? 2.) How did Tim's perspective of starting VC around 9/11 shape his perspective coming into the industry? Why does Tim believe you need to see multiple cycles to be a good VC? 3.) Where are theWhy does Tim believe that startups need to be better capitalised than they currently are in the early days? Why does Tim argue for the existence of the Series B Crunch? 4.) How does Tim view the creation of a business model for machine learning? What are the 2 elements that founders need to consider before deciding in a pricing mechanism? 5.) How does Tim evaluate machine learning startups today in the plethora that have been created over the last few years? How does Tim determine true machine learning talent? Items Mentioned In Today’s Show: Tim’s Fave Book: Nexus Tim's Fave Blog or Newsletter: Wait But Why Tim’s Most Recent Investment: Next Entertainment As always you can follow Harry, The Twenty Minute VC, Tim on Twitter here! Likewise, you can follow Harry on Snapchat here for mojito madness and all things 20VC. The Simba Hybrid. The most advanced mattress in the world. With a unique combination of two thousand five hundred conical pocket springs and responsive memory foam, it offers the perfect support for two people. A mattress that responds to you and your partner’s sleeping patterns. Delivered free, with a one hundred night sleep trial, free returns and a ten year guarantee. Start your free trial at simbasleep.com Cirrus Insight is a plugin for sales pros who use Gmail and Outlook. It automatically updates activities in Salesforce so you don’t have to. It was named #41 on the Inc. 500 list of fastest-growing companies, and it has more than 1,700 customer reviews on the Salesforce AppExchange. Today, it serves over 150,000 sales people across 5,000 organizations using Gmail, Outlook, iPhone, iPad, and Android. Cirrus Insight is perfect for sales, support, and success teams who want to save time, schedule 3x more appointments, track email opens and much more with Salesforce information at their fingertips in the inbox. www.cirrusinsight.com/20VC

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Harry Stebbings?

  Hello and welcome back to another week in the wonderful world of VC with me, Harry Stebbings, found sending Mojito-filled Snapchats at H Stebbings with two Bs, and writing some hopefully insightful pieces on the new blog Mojito VC dot com. However, to the show today, and I was deciding whether to do the formal boring intro, or fun and casual one. But as it's an alliance with the guest, I'm going for the fun and casual, so I'm delighted to welcome today's guest, Tim Chang, Managing Director at Mayfield Fund, to the show. Now, Tim was referred to me by many other VCs as the fittest man in Silicon Valley, notable tech publications have even written about it. His eclecticness does not stop there though. He's also a musician in three bands, and a serious body hacker, which I have to admit we do touch on today. As for his investments though, he's had success

• 0:41Harry Stebbings?

  in AdChina, acquired by Alibaba, Playdom, acquired by Disney, and Basis, acquired by Intel, just to name a few. And prior to Mayfield, he spent time at notable institutions including General Motors and Northwest Venture Partners. It's also not only us that appreciate Tim's skills though, as he's also been named to Top 100 Innovators on Forbes Midas List for two years running. And I also want to say a huge thank you to Rick Marini for the intro today to Tim, which we could not have done the show without. However, before we meet one of the most interesting guests I've had on the show, but staying on the theme of body hacking, with the new year, we need new routines, and one of mine is sleeping more, Mojito unassisted of course, and that's where the Simba Hybrid comes in. It's the most advanced mattress in the world, with a unique combination of 2,500 Conical Pocket

• 1:23Harry Stebbings?

  Springs and Responsive Memory Foam. It offers the perfect support for two people, a mattress that responds to you and your partner's sleeping patterns, and is delivered for free, with a 100-night sleep trial, free returns and a 10-year guarantee. So start your free trial at simbasleep.com. Another target of mine for the new year is productivity, and there's no better for that than Cirrus Insight, the plugin for sales pros who use Gmail and Outlook. It automatically updates activities in Salesforce, so you don't have to. And it was named number 41 on the INC 500 list of fastest-growing companies, and it has more than 1,700 customer reviews on the Salesforce App Exchange. Today, it serves over 150,000 salespeople across 5,000 organisations, using Gmail, Outlook, iPhone, iPad and Android,

• 2:07Harry Stebbings?

  and Cirrus Insight is perfect for sales, support and success. Teams who want to save time, schedule three X more appointments, track email opens and much more with Salesforce information at their fingertips in their inbox. So check it out at www.sirousinsight.com/20vc. However, it's now time for me to shut up and to hand over to Tim Chang, Managing Director at Mayfield Fund.

• 2:35Speaker 01

  You have now arrived at your destination.

• 2:38Harry Stebbings?

  Tim, it's such a pleasure to have you on the show today. Huge thanks to Rick Marini for the intro, but thank you so much for joining me today, Tim.

• 2:44Speaker 02

  My pleasure. It's an honour to be on. I'm a big fan of your work.

• 2:46Harry Stebbings?

  Well, thank you so much, but I'd love to get started today by asking my favourite question of all, which is how did you make it into the wonderful world of VC and to where you are today with Mayfield?

• 2:57Speaker 02

  So I have a confession. I fell into venture capital when I was at Stanford Business School and I didn't know about the industry before I got there. Quite frankly, during my time as an MBA student, people used to say venture capital is one of the hardest industries to get into and it's the hot thing to do. And so I basically said, well, that sounds like a challenge. I wonder if I could get into it. And that is possibly the stupidest reason to get into venture, but it is the honest truth. And it turned out to be a good fit because I had, you know, a master's degree in electrical engineering, which is often one of the prerequisites. And worked at large companies like Gateway and General Motors, the technology side and product marketing side. So that was helpful. And then I had some time in entrepreneurship doing some stints as an EIR at Idea Lab.

• 3:40Speaker 02

  So I checked the boxes as an associate qualification for venture capital firms was recruited into the industry. But my mindset at the time was let's see if I can get into it. And I remember my first day of work thinking, oh, boy, I'm in the industry now. Now what do I do? Keep in mind, this was a prior era when a lot of VCs entered as post MBA associates. These days, I think the qualifications and specs are a little bit different.

• 4:04Harry Stebbings?

  Yeah, you know, now they let podcasters in. It's unbelievable.

• 4:09Speaker 02

  I'd say, you know, these days, perhaps a wide variety of backgrounds are very suitable for venture capital, whether it's journalism, you know, popular personality, a founder, operating executives. A personal angel investor, any number of these roads could become a successful venture capitalist.

• 4:25Harry Stebbings?

  Absolutely. And so I'm intrigued, after desperately wanting to get into the hard industry, as you said, how was it when you finally made it in and how did you stop yourself from going, ah, now what?

• 4:35Speaker 02

  Well, I entered at the fall of two thousand and one. So my second week at work was nine eleven. This was a very, very scary time to enter the industry because after nine eleven, basically, it was three years of nuclear winter and seeing startups only go out of business. And that sort of shaded my perspective because I only saw how things feel wrong. And in some ways, I think it was a disadvantage because I'd never seen an up cycle. When your work is composed of playing interim CFO and helping companies shut down or reduce workforce, you just get a sort of pessimistic view and sometimes that's a disadvantage because you don't see how things can take off like they did when the web two point O wave took off subsequently.

• 5:15Harry Stebbings?

  How did that make you feel then when we saw the height of the boom following it? Kind of the resurgence of tech and the huge evaluations and rounds that we did see with that perspective that you started with?

• 5:25Speaker 02

  It made me sometimes wonder what is going on? Am I missing something? And I think the honest answer is yes, because I believe to be a good venture capitalist, you probably need to see a couple of cycles, both up and down. So you know the full spectrum of possibilities, how bad things can go when they go wrong, but also how massively they can explode when things go right or when there's a rising tide. And the way you start into the industry can definitely shade your perception of sort of positive bias or negative bias. So for me, I would say it took a good six, seven years of seeing both up and down cycle to be able to calibrate and say, you know, to be able to see what the possibilities are, both in good times and bad times.

• 6:03Harry Stebbings?

  Okay, so Tim, help me out here. You started in the downtimes. I've started in the last month. What does that, what does that mean for me? I mean, where do you perceive our, our cycle to be now in the industry? Is this a good time to be starting or a bad time?

• 6:17Speaker 02

  You know, the consensus is that right now might be the closest thing to a new normal. And what I mean by that is, you know, Brexit didn't take the world like we thought it would. Evaluations are definitely corrected, so it's not just.

• 6:30Speaker 02

  Next GMV on, you know, a sharing economy business is how you get valued anymore. People are much more sensitive to unit economics, LTVs, payback ratios on CAC, all these sorts of, you know, sensible ways to value a business. And because of that, I actually think it's a pretty good time to invest because you also have several massive platform shifts taking off, whether it's AR, VR, my favorite, AI, machine learning. You know, the business plan of the next 10 years will be take machine learning, AI, add it to existing industry X, disrupt the whole thing. So I actually think you're starting at a wonderful time because you've got a lot of comparables to look at, as well as a more sane valuation environment.

• 7:06Harry Stebbings?

  Well, that's fantastic, Tim. I'm very relieved of that. I do want to get into the AI machine learning element, as you said that. But I do also have to ask, in terms of the cadence of investing, does it maintain the same throughout? Some investors very much err on kind of continuation of the same and a strict cadence, and others suggest kind of variations according to cycles. What's your thesis on kind of cadence throughout cycles?

• 7:27Speaker 02

  Well, the traditional wisdom is of course buy low, sell high. My best deals were actually in the post 2008 downturn. You know, that's when valuations were cheapest and companies that survived that downturn ended up thriving quite well. If anything, probably the mistake I made last time was not investing more aggressively in 2009, 2010. So that is something that we're thinking a lot about. The normal pace for a fund like us, you know, mainstream, early-stage VC firm of 350 to 400 million, we're typically doing 10, 12 deals a year, right? So a mainline VC, we're probably seeing anywhere from 400 to 800 deals a year personally in doing, you know, one to three deals of those per year. That will probably be consistent. But if things really slow down with the economy and valuations come back down,

• 8:12Speaker 02

  you could argue that you'll see people still investing because they've got the funds, they've got the capital deployed. But if valuations and check sizes go down for a number of deals, they might be investing more, especially on sort of recap rounds or down rounds on companies that might have gotten ahead of their skis in valuation, but are still fundamentally pretty good businesses.

• 8:30Harry Stebbings?

  Absolutely. I mean, what's your perspective on down rounds and bridge rounds? We see more and more bridge rounds. Is that a sign that clearly product market fit hasn't been achieved to you? Do you think it's actually a sign that maybe they just need some more runway?

• 8:43Speaker 02

  It could be both, but I'm gonna throw it out there, let's call a spade a spade. And there is no real seed two or seed three, that's basically a bridge, right? That pretty much means you have proper product market fit to extend over into a proper series A. So we will see a big series A crunch, series B crunch, because rounds that used to be done on momentum now will need more metrics behind them to really prove those out. And if you don't get those, you're looking at a bridge round, whether you call it a series A two, a series seed two, those sorts of things, right? So the undercapitalized seed or series A will be the new big risk for founders. It is easy to get that first seed round because there's so many seed funds around. And it's it's easy to do a rolling close and do, you know, a safe note and get your 750K in.

• 9:28Speaker 02

  But you could say that is a recipe for being underfunded because the milestones you can prove on only 750K might not really be enough to get you a true series A later, especially as more funds are looking for more data for that true series A round now.

• 9:41Harry Stebbings?

  And as a series A investor, I'm intrigued, you know, we always hear about the series A crunch. I particularly now as an investor in London see a big series B crunch. Is that something that you're seeing in particular as we move up the funding cycle?

• 9:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think so. And, you know, for for us, a lot of it boils down to on series A to B is scalability. And is there enough data that shows the unit economic model is working? Case in point, let's say you are an e-commerce company or an on-demand company or something like that. Typically, people used to say, look at my GMV run rate, my top line is growing really quick. But these days, people are a lot more shrewd, they're gonna double-click down and say, well, tell me about your payback on contribution margin basis. You know, best of breed is you're paying back on first transaction. Or can you make your payback on contribution margin versus CAC in six months? Can you make 2X on your CAC within, say, 12 to 18 months, right? Those sorts of things. Are your acquisition channels for paid users, is it scalable?

• 10:37Speaker 02

  Or does it start topping out after this amount of Facebook ads? It's all those sorts of things that people are really digging into now as opposed to, oh, wow, the GMV is growing really quickly.

• 10:45Harry Stebbings?

  Absolutely. I'm super intrigued though to ask, Jason Lemkin, a friend of mine, always says that the best investors, Harry, are those that know the benchmarks for the next round. Is that something that you perceive to be true in particular about knowing the specifics of what it takes to reach the milestones to move to Series B?

• 11:02Speaker 02

  It is the best way to look at a deal because really your risk is, yes, ultimately does it succeed or not, but the immediate risk, can you raise the follow-on round for the company? And so if you've got sort of benchmarks that you're working towards, you at least know where the goalposts are to be able to raise the next round. Probably the riskiest thing is if you don't know what the business model is and you don't know what the metrics will be, then you're really flying kind of blind in the dark and just hoping that traction picks up and that you'll be able to attract a round. In certain spaces today, like virtual reality, that can work because you've got a lot of interest from Chinese overseas investors and there's no revenue or model that needs to be proven. It's just very strategic for them so that can happen. But in well-known spaces with

• 11:44Speaker 02

  well-defined metrics like SaaS or e-commerce or other things, you probably should know what your metrics are to hit for your strong Series B up round raise.

• 11:53Harry Stebbings?

  Absolutely. I do want to touch on one specific area that you mentioned earlier that we're both super excited by, I think everyone's super excited by, and it is machine learning and AI. So my first question is, with such a plethora now of startups suggesting that they integrate machine learning into pretty much every aspect of their offering, how do you differentiate in the now vast pool of machine learning startups?

• 12:16Speaker 02

  Okay, so here's the thing, because machine learning and AI is the hot new buzzword, expect every single startup pitch to incorporate that as a bullet point, just like they did back when, you know, UGC or crowdfunding or any trend of the year was hot. You'll see that in every deck. But the truth is, a lot of times, it's probably overreaching, if not total bullshit. The way you can suss that out is look at the PhD caliber backgrounds of the teams on their machine learning or AI staff. If they don't come from one of the six world-class centers, whether it be at MIT or others, it probably isn't true. It's probably just automation dressed up as machine learning. So that's something we look at is what is the bench strength of the A R machine learning team there?

• 13:00Speaker 02

  If those people aren't being systematically poached at by Google or Facebook or whatnot, they're probably not world-class A I machine learning talent. For true world-class A I machine learning startups, they're going to need name-brand A I rock stars. And, you know, I only use the term rock star loosely in the sense that they are being approached almost like N B A draft picks now. Same salary amounts, same recruiting efforts. And so being able to land those people, that is the new test these days. I like to say in this era, we're we're going to be building for A I first on a lot of companies. Proprietary data pools and A I talent are the new natural limited resources. They are the new oil and gold, if you will.

• 13:38Harry Stebbings?

  I'm I'm super intrigued then. You said about the proprietary data pools and that always brings me to the most important question I have around investing in A I. And that is access to these proprietary data pools. And does that mean that it's essentially an aqua hire market with the incumbency advantage?

• 13:54Speaker 02

  That's what my biggest fear is, that if startups can't train on massive proprietary data sets, then they'll never get that advantage on their algorithms. And then they're really targeted for, you know, aqua hire by Facebook, Amazon, Apple, Google, et cetera. I have seen some early cases, though, where some startups have been able to go to large corporate customers. Think of, say, for example, financial institutions, insurance companies, telecom carriers, those with vast data pools that they could train on. And if you're able to get a pilot deal with a major enterprise like that, get access to that data, train up your algo, you might have a fighting chance.

• 14:30Harry Stebbings?

  So so with with regards to that and the fighting chance, I'm intrigued as to what industries you think are most applicable and nascent for this vertical. We've seen a wide variety of A I startups focusing on the assistance and A I assistance. So I'm intrigued around that. What are your most interesting applications of machine learning A I, do you think, today?

• 14:50Speaker 02

  So there'll be several broad horizontal ones. These will be business unit applications. You've got your customer service, C R M, E R P, those that already have large existing enterprise software businesses for them right now that you could potentially augment or Disrupt with machine learning, AI, customer service, probably the first one I've seen there. We'll probably then also see marketing, sales, CRM being augmented with AI. And then there's vertical applications. These would be your, you know, for example, in healthcare, being able to read radiology charts more accurately with AI, those sorts of things. The the big verticals I do like that have big data pools would be financial services, especially things like insurance, lending.

• 15:32Speaker 02

  But then you've also got the telecom market, which has large, large data pools on their subscriber behavior and their data usage, those sorts of things, and then eventually retail.

• 15:44Harry Stebbings?

  Going back relatively to the incumbency advantage, I'm intrigued because another challenge or potential concern for me when I view AI startups is the kind of lack of a standardized and traditional business model because it's such a new vertical. I'm intrigued as to your thoughts on the potential around formulating a standard business model that could be used, or whether you think this is very much an individualized perspective. What's your take on kind of building that business model for machine learning?

• 16:09Speaker 02

  So the most obviatory point is, can you either generate more revenue for an existing line of business or save immense cost on a cost line? Customer service is a great example. Can you either augment the existing customer service workers so they can support 10 people instead of one customer at a time? Or could you flat out replace, for example, the Filipino or Indian call center, right? So that's a direct cost savings there. The other model would be for AI machine learning on the productivity side, the what I think of as the, you know, AI augmented worker. Can a salesperson handle 20 times more accounts? Or could they write their emails 10 times better than they could before? We've got a wonderful company called outreach.io that's playing in this space.

• 16:51Speaker 02

  Imagine a machine learning system that is seeing the emails of every salesperson, not just in your company, but across all of them, seeing the open rates, response rates, even traction to close. So then you'd have a system that could say, wait, hey, salesperson, before you send that email, let me tweak it a bit for you. I think I can write it even better than you could. And so that's an example of machine learning stepping in to help an existing worker do their job. Better than they could do currently.

• 17:17Harry Stebbings?

  So is that is that a value based pricing mechanism or is it a volume based pricing mechanism depending on on on the site? So what does that look like in terms of the actual business model itself?

• 17:26Speaker 02

  The most elegant ones are if you can leverage existing business models like SaaS, right? And so for SaaS, often it's priced on functionality or perceived or things like that. You will have some variance. Some people will go on and try to do it on a value base saying, oh, hey, why don't we try freemium? We can price it based on lift or cost savings. I should demonstrate for you. But the most straightforward one is probably a standard SaaS based pricing model.

• 17:48Harry Stebbings?

  And before we dive into a quick fire round, I asked many of your friends in the valley, what should I ask Tim? I've got Tim on the show. What should I ask him? And everyone came back with the statement that you're the fittest guy in Silicon Valley. I know you're gonna laugh and blush at that. But everyone said it, so it has to be true. So I do want to talk about this. And as a co-founder of one of the first wearable startups, I want to hear how you view body hacking and the quantified self as a swift transition from machine learning.

• 18:17Speaker 02

  Oh, sure. Actually, there's someone related because you're getting data signals back about yourself, right? Machines learning about you and teaching you about your actual behavior. But I am embarrassed to try to lay claim to that. I think I'm probably one of the most lazy and vain people in the valley, perhaps. Although those are my true true motivations. There are far more people truly into fitness and athletics, but not me. I dread the thought of hiking or or running a marathon. I was more interested in how do you get maximum output from minimal input, especially being as busy, you know, as I am. So early on, I was I was exploring body hacking and my big learning on it was it's actually seventy eighty percent about what you eat,

• 18:56Speaker 02

  not even the exercise part. So a lot of body hacking is less about the exercises, more about timing and changing your regimen and what you're putting into your body. I guess that kind of makes sense, right? Because sort of, you know, what you're putting in is what you're gonna have to burn off, right?

• 19:12Harry Stebbings?

  It doesn't in dozen. I'm I'm one of those who likes to eat a lot and then exercise a lot to compensate for it. So so in in the world of short time availability and busyness and travel, I'm intrigued kind of. Just me asking for advice here. What is the food schedule like? How do you optimize the food schedule for health benefit? And then how do you manage to fit in exercise and and kind of fitness with such a hectic schedule as many of the startup founders and VCs that listen have the similar schedule?

• 19:42Speaker 02

  So, you know, it's always a work in progress. I'm always trying to learn, but I think I have maybe the ingredients for a silver bullet on this. The first is if you can switch your diet to more of a ketogenic or paleo like diet, so you're eating a lot of lean protein. You know, a lot of high fiber, superfood type of vegetables like spinach or kale and broccoli, those sorts of things. If you can do it, cut out all processed sugar, cut out carbs, you know, that are starchy and low quality carbs. So namely, no more bread, no more pasta, no more rice, no more of those sorts of things. Increase your healthy fat intake. These are coconut oils, avocado, et cetera. And then if you can throw intermittent fasting into the schedule, you'll see immediate wonderful results. I've been playing with intermittent fasting on a daily schedule where it's basically sixteen to eighteen hours off.

• 20:28Speaker 02

  And then only eating within, say, a six to seven hour window, call it noon to seven P M, one to seven P M, something like that. That's not actually that hard. Think about it, really, that's just cutting out breakfast and snacks. If you then also add on top of that a a high intensity thirty to forty minute weight training only schedule on, say, three, four days a week, you will pretty much achieve kind of this the six pack, you know, Abercrombie Fitch model look. I can almost guarantee it.

• 20:54Harry Stebbings?

  Well, just Tim, I didn't hear any mojitos in there. Did you forget mojitos?

• 20:59Speaker 02

  Oh, that is one thing I should mention. If you're able to cut out alcohol or limit it severely, that'll do quite a bit.

• 21:04Harry Stebbings?

  Interview over, interview over.

• 21:08Harry Stebbings?

  Thank you for listening. Um, uh, okay. Well, no, I think everyone deserves a mojito or ten at the end of the day. Um, but I do want to move into a quick fire round with you now. So I say a short statement and then you give me your immediate thoughts, sixty seconds or or less. Sound good?

• 21:23Speaker 02

  Okay, sound good.

• 21:24Harry Stebbings?

  So your favorite book and why?

• 21:26Speaker 02

  Uh, Nexus by Ramesh Nam. I think it's the next successor to The Matrix.

• 21:30Harry Stebbings?

  And why do you love it so much?

• 21:32Speaker 02

  It combines all my favorite elements, consciousness, hacking, you know. Learning man, the singularity, AI, robotics, kung fu fighting.

• 21:40Harry Stebbings?

  The biggest mentor to you and how the relationship came about?

• 21:43Speaker 02

  My friend Aval Ravikant, founder of Angelus, has influenced me quite a bit. He's opened up the doorway to a lot of conscious hacking, a lot of deep discussions about the nature of technology, our fate and destiny as a species, the nature of love versus fear as the core driving principles for any decision, any moment. Wonderful guy.

• 22:03Harry Stebbings?

  Your favorite blog or newsletter, what are the master reads for you when they come in?

• 22:07Speaker 02

  I am a big fan of Jason Hirschhorn's Re-Death blog. I think that's a pretty good one. But Wait But Why is of course my favorite blog. I know that's a common answer by now, but Tim Ru is such a great writer.

• 22:18Harry Stebbings?

  Yeah, no, I'm very much in agreement with you there. In terms of the biggest challenge for you daily at Mayfield, what would that be?

• 22:25Speaker 02

  Trying to keep a beginner's mind. Our human brains are basically shortcut and bias machines. And I find myself always falling into this, trying to use pattern recognition and prior experience to shape whether I think something's good or not. Trying to stop myself and say, wait, are those assumptions still true?

• 22:41Harry Stebbings?

  Yep, absolutely. And then what would solve America's healthcare woes? You are the healthcare genius.

• 22:47Speaker 02

  I'm not a genius. I know two things that would, but they'll never get passed in my lifetime because people would throw up at the thought. But the first is treating processed sugar like a scheduled narcotic substance because let's admit that's really what it is. Would you give someone a crack pipe and say, please self-regulate? No. The second would be if you could limit people's freedom to eat what they want based on their BMI. You know, if you've got a healthy BMI, I think you can eat whatever the hell you want. But frankly, as your BMI creeps up and gets really, really obese because your eating choices, should you be really allowed to eat what you want? Are your choices that great? You know, again, no one will ever like these things. They'll say, ah, that's blasphemy. But food is the root of almost everything related to healthcare and our healthcare costs these days.

• 23:31Harry Stebbings?

  No, but it's true. Absolutely. And when everyone's paying for the healthcare costs, it would seem, why, particularly in the UK with the NHS? It would seem unfair that some benefit from others' potential laziness. But then I want to finish, moving away from the obesity note, on your most recent. An investment and why you said yes, the public investment that is.

• 23:49Speaker 02

  Ah, right, right. I said yes because, so this is a company called Next Entertainment. They are taking the China live streaming phenomena and trying to see if that playbook will apply to the rest of the world. A rare case of instead of China doing copy paste ventures on a successful US model, maybe the reverse possibly being true.

• 24:08Harry Stebbings?

  Tim, it's been such a pleasure to have you on the show. Both Rishi and Rick told me it'd be an incredible interview. Not only was it incredible, but incredibly fun. So thank you so much for joining me on the show today.

• 24:17Speaker 02

  Thank you, Harry. Really appreciate it.

• 24:21Harry Stebbings?

  Now, I want to start by thanking Tim for giving up his time today to come on the show. So much fun chatting with him and really was a highlight for me. Also, a huge hand to Rick Marini for making the intro, without which the episode would not have been possible. Also, if you love the show today, then you can add me on Snapchat at H Stebbings or check out the new blog on mojito vc.com. And do not forget what I said earlier, there's no better time to make changes to your life than a fresh new year. And with the new year, we need new routines. And as I said earlier, one of mine is sleeping more. And that's where Simba Hybrid comes in. It's the most advanced mattress in the world with a unique combination of 2,500 Conical Pocket Springs and responsive memory foam. It offers the perfect support for two people, a mattress that responds to you and your partner's sleeping patterns,

• 25:03Harry Stebbings?

  no matter how many partners you might have. And it's delivered for free with a 100 night sleep trial, free returns and a 10 year guarantee. So start your free trial at simbasleep.com. Another target of mine for the new year is also productivity and there's no better for that than Cirrus Insight, the plugin for sales pros who use Gmail and Outlook. It automatically updates activities in Salesforce, so you don't have to. It was named number 41 on the INC 500 list of fastest growing companies and it has more than 1,700 customer reviews on the Salesforce App Exchange. Today, it serves over 150,000 salespeople across 5,000 organisations using Gmail, Outlook, iPhone, iPad and Android. And Cirrus Insight is perfect for sales support and success teams who want to save time, schedule 3X more appointments,

• 25:47Harry Stebbings?

  track email opens and much more with Salesforce information at the tips of their fingers. Check it out at www.cirrusinsight.com/20vc. And as always, I so appreciate the support. You can always email me on [email protected]. I always love to hear your feedback. And I cannot wait to bring you Wednesday's episode with Tim's partner at Mayfield, Rishi Garg.