Jocko Underground: Why Your Life Plan Might Now Work. Our Problems in the World Today.

Planning Advice for controlling unruly people. Being responsible for your powerful influence. Our problems in the world today. Being a good follower. Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Jocko Willink?

  This is the Jocko Underground Podcast, number 34, Echo Charles and myself, Jocko Willink, sitting around. I get a periodic question. We start talking, people start talking to me about, what's my five-year plan? What's my 10-year plan? This like long-term strategic plan? How do you go about that? What does it involve? What is that planning? How's that planning take shape? How do you format it? Like these kinds of questions. So, I want to talk about it a little bit. The shocker statement, which is sort of dramatic, overly dramatic, because it's only partially true and kind of true, which is, I don't do that. And I've told, you know, sometimes I'll say that for a little shock value, or, because I want to impress, I think, not for shock value, I say it to people because I want

• 0:46Jocko Willink?

  to impress upon them that I don't do it the way a normal person would do it. Part of the reason for that is, the, I think, what, one of the lessons that I learned in combat, is that overly detailing plans, they're not going to be possible to follow. I mean, and this might be, you know, this is even a one operation that's going to last three hours. If you make a super detailed plan, and you invest a lot of time and effort in trying to make a super detailed plan, chances are, you're not going to be able to execute it. What's better is to make a flexible plan, with some broad goals, so that you understand what it is you're trying to get done, and, and then go execute with some flexibility.

• 1:32Jocko Willink?

  So, looking at your life, or your business, and being like, okay, well, I need a five-to-10 year strategic plan, I kind of apply the same thing. I'm going to look for some overall, long-term, strategic goals, of where I want to be, and then I'm going to explore different opportunities to get me there, to satisfy that mission. I might make loose plans about what I'm going to try and do.

• 2:02Jocko Willink?

  But I'm not gonna over commit to any plans too. That's another thing. There's not some idea that I have that I that I'm committing to, which is weird. It's backwards from what people think, right? You've got to commit. Right. And you do got to commit. Sort of like in jujitsu, you, you, if I do a sweep, because I want to expose your arm, but I don't really commit to the sweep. Well, then you don't even defend it. Your arm doesn't stick out, so I can't get your arm. Yeah. I need to actually try. That'll expose another opportunity. If I don't actually try, there's not going to be opportunities. So I'm not saying you don't have to commit to things that you're going for, but I don't try and sweep you.

• 2:43Jocko Willink?

  And then when you don't get swept, I don't just keep trying to keep trying to keep trying to use all my energy. And by the way, now I'm exposing myself to a bad situation. So that's sort of like the way I look at your long-term sort of goals in life. And five, 10 years, six years ago, we didn't have a podcast. This wasn't a thing. Six years ago, I didn't have any books, hadn't written any books, didn't have anything to sell, wasn't selling anything. I had Echelon Front, but it was just Leif and me. So we had a consulting company, but it was two people.

• 3:24Jocko Willink?

  Now, now, I got, what, I don't know, 10 something books, multiple podcasts. We got Origin, we got Jocko Fuel, we got the Warrior Kid. I got real estate things going on. I got Jocko Publishing. Echelon Front is now a bunch of people. Online Academy, Extreme Ownership Academy, the FTX going on at Echelon Front, the Battlefield stuff that we do, the musts, there's all kinds of things going on.

• 3:49Jocko Willink?

  And if you would have asked me six years ago, if I would have a clothing factory in North Carolina,

• 3:57Jocko Willink?

  I would have said, well, I guess that that could happen. Or a boot factory, we're going to make boots in America. Might have said, okay, you know, that's I that seems like, okay. If you would have told me, I would have been selling energy drinks throughout the country. I would have said, okay. So there's a lot of things are going on that might have been hard to predict. Right? So what am I doing? I'm looking for opportunities. Looking for opportunities and then apply some resources, some. Not over committing, but apply some resources and then run a feedback loop. And run a quick feedback loop. And what kind of feedback are you getting? Is the product that you made good? Are people listening to the podcast?

• 4:41Jocko Willink?

  Are people contacting Echelon Front to have us help them with their leadership? Oh, no one's contacting us? Okay, well, maybe the product that we're making isn't that desired. Oh, a ton of people are contacting you. Okay, maybe we should hire some other instructors. Oh, we got some more instructors and they're they're working overtime. Okay, maybe we need some more. Oh, we're we're going to make T shirts. Well, no one buys the T shirts. Okay, well, maybe people don't want T shirts that say discipline equals freedom on. Okay. Oh, we made T shirts that say discipline equals freedom and a lot of people are buying them. Okay, cool. Let's make some more of those. Let's make a sweatshirt that says those. Should we make 50,000 sweatshirts that says that? No, because we don't know how many people are going to buy them. How about we just make 2,000 right now?

• 5:26Jocko Willink?

  Oh, those all sold. Okay, well, how about you see what I'm saying? So you you you you experiment a little bit. You take some risk, but you don't take too much risk. I didn't say, hey, you know, I think I'm going to make T shirts. I'm going to buy a factory tomorrow.

• 5:41Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 5:42Jocko Willink?

  Right? I'm going to employ 100 people to to sell. Like, that's not what we're doing. But here, so so now I'm saying all that. But as I went through all that, there's there's a really important part of this. And that is, number one, keep an open mind, right? Because these opportunities are going to present themselves in your life. And you've got to keep an open mind. That also reinforces the idea of not committing, over committing on things. But also, you have to occasionally, periodically, more than occasionally, periodically, you have to review what you're doing tactically, like this day, this week, this month,

• 6:24Jocko Willink?

  to make sure it's getting you where you want to be strategically.

• 6:30Jocko Willink?

  And then you need to assess and adjust, assess and adjust, assess and adjust. So if you and I started this podcast and we were like, okay, you know, hey, that was pretty cool. And then we invited on somebody that was in charge of animals, veterinarian, right? And then we were like, okay, hey, that was cool. And the veterinarian was cool to talk to. So then all of a sudden, we're like, hey, let's do the next one in the veterinarian's shop. And we can hopefully get some of these animals that are up for adoption. We can get them adopted, right? And it's all like, cool. And then all of a sudden, we look up in two years and we're running an adoption agency for pets. I got nothing against pets.

• 7:14Jocko Willink?

  I want, I don't want dogs to get put down from the pound. But if my main effort in life was helping stray dogs get adopted, again, that's a great effort, but it wouldn't be what I would want to concentrate on. So instead of getting two years down the road, in a month, I'd say, hey, Echo, man, I know we just did two podcasts inside of a vet, inside of a, inside of a dog pound, which is cool, it was fun, but I don't know if that's strategically where we want to be. So make those adjustments. Make those adjustments because otherwise you could end up looking up in three, four, five years and you're involved in something that you don't even like.

• 8:00Jocko Willink?

  You don't even want to be involved in it. Dogs are bad. I like dogs. It's a bad example. I should have said something else, but that's what came out of my mouth. So we gotta stick with it. We don't have to stick with it. We could adjust. What would be, what would be, what could have, what could have pulled us off the path? What could we got into?

• 8:14Speaker 01

  Flower shop.

• 8:15Jocko Willink?

  Flower shops, right?

• 8:16Speaker 01

  We like flowers.

• 8:17Jocko Willink?

  We like flowers, but we don't want to be pulling weeds all day.

• 8:20Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 8:21Jocko Willink?

  And, and trying to talk about, here's the problem with that. I'm not truly interested in flowers. More interested, that's a, that's a great one, actually. Flowers are fine. Gardens are fine. It's not my scene. It's not, I'm not into it.

• 8:35Speaker 01

  It's for sure not aligned with the original group of goals that you had.

• 8:40Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. But let's say, you know, we did one and I started talking about, well, you know, if you want to be a survive, if you want to be able to survive, you gotta be able to grow plants.

• 8:46Speaker 01

  Right.

• 8:47Jocko Willink?

  And all of a sudden said, hey, I'd love to come on your talk podcast and talk about, you know, hydroponics. So we bring on a guest and all of a sudden he's like, yeah, you know, you should do the next one. I'll come and give you a tour of my farm, inter, internal farm. You see what I'm saying?

• 9:03Speaker 01

  I see.

• 9:04Jocko Willink?

  Next thing you know, I'm talking about weeds and freaking root length, soil composition.

• 9:09Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 9:10Jocko Willink?

  Stuff that I'm not really into.

• 9:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:12Jocko Willink?

  Again, if you're into it, hype, good. I'm glad. Cause you can grow food for me.

• 9:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:18Jocko Willink?

  So don't let yourself get too far down a path. That's why you gotta run, you gotta detach and you gotta assess what you're doing.

• 9:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's cause and also other people in your little group, if you have a group or whatever, they can kind of pull you to, I mean, I, I've found anyway, they, you gotta watch out. And this is advice to me. Like right now, what you're saying, you're talking to me as far as.

• 9:42Jocko Willink?

  So you don't really like this podcast that we do?

• 9:45Speaker 01

  No, sir, that's uh, that's those, that's a one of the good parts.

• 9:49Jocko Willink?

  Well, actually, here's something. Do you like

• 9:54Jocko Willink?

  running fulfillment and stocking shelves? Do you like doing that?

• 9:58Speaker 01

  Well, that was one, uh, no, no, no, no, I don't.

• 10:01Jocko Willink?

  So what's good is you did that for a little while.

• 10:03Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 10:03Jocko Willink?

  We did that for a little while, mostly you.

• 10:06Speaker 01

  Right.

• 10:08Jocko Willink?

  You realized, hey, this isn't like a great effort. This isn't a great use of my time. I don't love doing it. Do you like making videos?

• 10:16Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 10:17Jocko Willink?

  And you still make videos?

• 10:18Speaker 01

  Yes, sir.

• 10:19Jocko Willink?

  Is that a good use of your time?

• 10:20Speaker 01

  I think so.

• 10:20Jocko Willink?

  Do you enjoy it?

• 10:21Speaker 01

  Yes, sir.

• 10:22Jocko Willink?

  So you, you steered yourself away from stocking, shipping, packaging.

• 10:30Jocko Willink?

  And by the way, we have a friend that does that and is into it. And like, cool. Right on. Let's help build your business. Good to go. Ryan, right? Hey, Ryan, right on. He's got a business. He's into it. He's making that work. He's got a team. Like, that's good stuff. Wasn't really Echo Charles's scene.

• 10:49Speaker 01

  Right.

• 10:49Jocko Willink?

  Perhaps we could say, maybe, no offense, maybe it wasn't even your skill set.

• 10:55Speaker 01

  I'm always down to learn.

• 10:57Jocko Willink?

  Cause it was, you know, kind of a thing that requires a timely commitment and execution.

• 11:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, let's say my skill set at the time and even maybe at this time, well, you know, was not up to the standard that I think it, it probably should have took.

• 11:10Jocko Willink?

  Yep. And it's not a good fit. So this is a good leadership point. If I've got Echo Charles at my company and Echo's good at creating things, he's good at coming up with ideas. But he's not the kind that shows up, you know, early and is like executing that project on time. Why am I putting him in charge of fulfillment? We're not going to do that. We're going to put him in charge of making videos or something like this. So there you go. Good. I think this is important stuff to, for people to know.

• 11:40Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. So, and if you, um, you know how like, if you have a group of people or whatever, and then they say, oh shoot, we need someone to, um, I don't know, do this task. That's not a consistent task that needs to be done. It's just one kind of, you know, one-off task. And then just a quick, it's not a deep evaluation. It's just, it kind of comes up like, okay, oh, Echo could probably do it, given the fact that he knows about this, this and this. So he could probably at least give me some advice. Right. So they go to Echo and then, so now I'm there. quote unquote giving advice my best opinion or whatever and it seems like dang that's a good opinion then they'll be like kind of the back of their mind hey let's sort of task him with this in general you know let's come to him for this kind of stuff in general and of

• 12:22Speaker 01

  course me being the you know the team I'm trying to help or what do you call I'm a I'm a go with guy right of course I mean most of the time anyway so I'll be like oh yeah cool yeah do that right now and then the next week yeah sure I'll do it and then two months later that's like I'm on the hook for doing that now and it's like dang I didn't even I thought I I wanted to do this other stuff

• 12:44Jocko Willink?

  you just took everything that I said and turned it into how to get out of work

• 12:51Speaker 01

  well the thing is

• 12:52Jocko Willink?

  you said all of a sudden you're on the hook for stuff

• 12:55Speaker 01

  yep it's true

• 12:56Jocko Willink?

  you don't like that

• 12:57Speaker 01

  bro that's how it feels if you get caught down one of these little rabbit holes or whatever however you put it where you look up and you're like wait a second this isn't part of my plan at all I just kind of got sucked in and you did get sucked or you allowed yourself to get sucked I'm talking to myself

• 13:10Jocko Willink?

  mission creep

• 13:11Speaker 01

  it's a total mission creep scope creep mission creep freaking all that stuff and you look up because you don't want to let nobody down you know I'm just saying other people can suck you down that hole it's not always

• 13:20Jocko Willink?

  I give you a nine out of 10 for like stopping that from happening

• 13:27Speaker 01

  well that one there was this one period at time where I actually even came to you and it was like hey this is what I'm thinking as far as like stopping certain things or or getting less and less involved in in certain things but um like I said to me you're talking to me because that's like a constant thing I think

• 13:49Jocko Willink?

  well good thing to pay attention to let's get some Q and A what do you got

• 13:56Speaker 01

  and answers

• 14:01Speaker 01

  I start bouncing soon at a bar

• 14:07Speaker 01

  and I want to get insight from both you especially I could do is experience working in the nightlife I'm 23 years old which is literally the age I started or I started here in San Diego I was younger anyway I'm 23 year old 5'10 and about 210 same dimensions as me more or less I've been training both Muay Thai and the Jiu Jitsu for about four years training anywhere from four to six times a week I feel relatively confident in physical alter cases altercations though I tend to avoid them at all costs

• 14:39Speaker 01

  A friend of mine who also I train with owns a couple restaurants and said he'd love for me to bounce for him because I'm extroverted.

• 14:47Jocko Willink?

  Quote, "extroverted."

• 14:48Speaker 01

  Quote-unquote, "extroverted, good with people and tend to be pretty good at de-escalating situations." My problem is how much, how much I hate confrontation. While it's good to have the traits I mentioned before, I find that I'm often really bad at being stern or putting my foot down when needed. And this is obviously a necessary skill for a bouncer. Looking for some advice that either of you think might help. Thanks, guys.

• 15:12Jocko Willink?

  Mm-hmm. Go ahead there.

• 15:14Speaker 01

  No, no, no, no, no. Please.

• 15:16Jocko Willink?

  Go ahead there, fucking Dalton.

• 15:17Speaker 01

  I was watching Roadhouse the other day and, bro, that, he's, he's, is sensationalizing a bunch of ways, but he was right. His speech, like, be nice. It's not personal, like, all this stuff.

• 15:29Jocko Willink?

  Yep. We could pretty much just roll the Dalton speech from Roadhouse right now.

• 15:33Speaker 01

  Yes, sir.

• 15:34Jocko Willink?

  And what's interesting about this is, you know, I, what do I think? I think, well, make sure you learn how to detach. Don't take things personally. Train jiu-jitsu, you're already training jiu-jitsu. What, what's good is, it seems like you actually might have... That is a little excerpt of what we are doing on the Jocko Underground Podcast. So if you want to continue to listen, go to jacood underground dot com and subscribe. And we're doing this, we're doing this to mitigate our reliance on external platforms so we are not subject to their control. And we're doing this so that we can support the Jocko Podcast, which will remain as is,

• 16:17Jocko Willink?

  free for all, as long as we can keep it that way. But we, but we are doing this so we don't have to be under the control of sponsors. And we're doing it so we can give you.

• 16:30Jocko Willink?

  More control, more interaction, more direct connections, better communications with us. And to do that, we are, we're building a website right now where we'll be able to utilize to strengthen this legion of troopers that are in the game with us. So, thank you. It's JacoUnderground.com. It costs $8.18 a month. And if you can't afford to support us, we can still support you. Just email [email protected] and we'll get you taken care of. Until then, we will see you mobilized underground.