Apple Raises Prices on Everything!

Marques, Andrew, and David start things off talking about Apple raising prices for a bunch of products by...a lot. Then they talk about the rumored Samsung foldable that's coming before discussing a bunch of smaller stories like WhatsApp getting usernames and Sony discontinuing physical discs. We wrap it all up with trivia of course. Enjoy! Links: Bloomberg - Apple to skip high-end M6 chips Verge - Polestar to leave the U. S WhatsApp launches usernames Verge - Playstation ending physical discs DBrand companion cube statement The Completionist - Buying every Nintendo Wii U game Video game history foundation This episode brought to you by: Framer: https://www.framer.com/wave Shopify: https://www.shopify.com/wave Quince: https://www.quince.com/wave Follow us on socials: Marques: https://twitter.com/MKBHD Andrew: https://www.instagram.com/andrew_manganelli/ David: https://www.instagram.com/davidimel/ Adam: https://www.instagram.com/parmesanpapi17/ Ellis: https://twitter.com/EllisRovin Waveform: Twitter: https://twitter.com/WVFRM Threads: https://www.threads.net/@waveformpodcast Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/waveformpodcast/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@waveformpodcast Join the Discord: https://discord.gg/mkbhd Intro/Outro music by 20syl: https://bit.ly/2S53xlC Waveform is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Andrew Manganelli?

  This episode is brought to you by On Investing, an original podcast from Charles Schwab. Each week, host Lizanne Saunders, Schwab's Chief Investment Strategist, and Colin Martin, Head of Fixed Income Research and Strategy for the Schwab Center for Financial Research, bring your fresh insights on what's happening in the markets and why, and what the implications might be for your portfolio. Join Colin and Lizanne as they explore questions like, how do you evaluate corporate bonds that look interesting? And what sectors are on the move right now? Download the latest episodes and subscribe at schwab.com/oninvesting or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 0:33Speaker 01

  Support for the show comes from Jira by Atlassian. AI is only as useful as the context it has to work from. But when that context is scattered across tools, threads, and DMs, that means your team and your AI agents end up flying blind. That's the problem that Jira solves. What's the goal tied to your project? What got decided last week in Slack? Atlassian's teamwork graph pulls all these pieces together, from Jira, Confluence, Slack, GitHub, and more. So, nothing falls through the cracks. With Jira, you can actually share that context with the AI agents you already use, like Claude, Cursor, and GitHub Copilot, assign them work directly, or connect your agents through MCP. Spend less time digging through endless links and DMs, less time chasing down what got decided and by who, and more time actually shipping. Learn more at jira.com.

• 1:18Speaker 01

  That's J-I-R-A dot com.

• 1:21David Imel?

  Wouldn't it be cool if we had some sort of protocol that all the games could be hosted online?

• 1:29Speaker 01

  Stop!

• 1:30David Imel?

  And everyone's computers could run this protocol to help seed these games.

• 1:41Speaker 01

  Yo, what's up, people of the internet? Welcome back to another episode of The Waveform Podcast. We're your hosts. I'm Marques. Yo, what is up, people of the internet? Welcome back to another episode of The Waveform Podcast. We're your hosts. I'm Marques.

• 1:51Andrew Manganelli?

  And I'm Andrew.

• 1:52Speaker 01

  And that's the chair where David would be sitting if the bridge wasn't closed. So, he is on the way, and he'll be here soon. And at some point, video users will just see him appear in his seat. And I guess audio users will hear him.

• 2:07Andrew Manganelli?

  Yes, we're at a tricky day where you have a game tonight, so you have to leave early. And also, it is going to be one of the hottest days of the year. So, we decided to record a little early.

• 2:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:15Andrew Manganelli?

  That... Got screwed up with traffic and the goal of today's podcast is to not melt by the end because the AC is off.

• 2:22Speaker 01

  I don't think people realize, or maybe we've said it, but maybe they've forgotten that we turn the air conditioner off in this studio every time we record because, you know, for you, for your ears, we want it to sound good and our mics, you know, no background noise, all that fun stuff. But that also means that if it's 103 degrees outside, like it's going to be for the next three days, that means that the temperature of this room slowly goes up as we record. And there's a good chance that in two hours, it will be way different in here. We turn the AC on before we come in so that it's cool. But, you know, we do this for you. This is what we do for you.

• 2:56Andrew Manganelli?

  Isn't there a saying like, slow boil the frog or something like that?

• 2:59Speaker 01

  Uh, yeah. We're the frogs. The frogs. Well, but we still notice it get hotter. The thing is the frogs, the frog, if you change the temperature slow enough, doesn't notice that it's getting hot. Have you guys not heard this?

• 3:10Andrew Manganelli?

  No.

• 3:11Speaker 01

  Really?

• 3:11Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah. I thought it was like a thing, like you, you slow.

• 3:14Speaker 01

  Like a frog. So the frog, I guess, is not particularly sensitive to temperature changes if it's slow enough. So you can slowly increase the temperature of the water and the frog will not get out of the water until you're literally boiling it.

• 3:27Andrew Manganelli?

  Chef said because you didn't, you felt bad that you were boiling frogs.

• 3:30Speaker 03

  I just Googled it and it is a myth and biologists have confirmed that they can escape the water if it gets uncomfortably hot.

• 3:36Speaker 01

  Okay, that's good. That's really good to hear. But.

• 3:39Speaker 03

  For anyone that was thinking about boiling frogs.

• 3:41Speaker 01

  Well, yeah.

• 3:41Speaker 03

  They're big.

• 3:42Speaker 01

  It's still a common saying.

• 3:43Speaker 03

  Community today.

• 3:44Speaker 01

  Still a common saying, definitely a myth. That's good. That's good that it's a myth.

• 3:48Andrew Manganelli?

  The difference is we can't stop recording this podcast. So we will boil and cannot get out.

• 3:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, for sure. Okay. In today's episode, we will have Apple's increased prices across the board. I know they tried to sneak that out on a Thursday, but jokes on you guys. We record every week, so we're talking about it this time. But there's also a first look at the new Galaxy Fold Wide, Polestar leaving the US and PlayStation killing physical discs. And we're wrapping it all up with some AI companies.

• 4:15Andrew Manganelli?

  That we don't really understand.

• 4:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:17Andrew Manganelli?

  Very confused.

• 4:19Speaker 01

  But first, did they even test this? Yes, they did. Yes, they did. It was funny. We had a sort of a mini tech support this morning with Google Docs, which is how we organize all of our podcast docs and notes and stuff. And I don't know if you've used a Google product in the last couple of months, you've probably seen like a lot of Gemini logos everywhere, like maybe too many. And one of them was really annoying at the bottom of Google Docs. And I don't know if you've been annoyed by that bottom button for Gemini?

• 4:50Andrew Manganelli?

  It's like a floating button that covers up maybe the last three lines of all your documents. And then when you go and try and select something there, it widens into this big

• 4:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:58Andrew Manganelli?

  uh, search bar essentially.

• 5:00Speaker 03

  Describe any changes you want to make.

• 5:01Speaker 01

  Looks like you're trying to write a document on some clippy [BLEEP].

• 5:06Speaker 01

  So, so if you want to get rid of it, you can. There's a Gemini button at the top of Google Docs and you go down to bottom bar preferences and you can turn it off, which is, I think they added that probably at some point because they did test it and realized you should be able to turn that off.

• 5:21Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah. I mean, I, I've hated it for a while and I lowkey didn't notice the Gemini menu bar thing. And then I saw Hank Green tweet about it yesterday and I was like, I do really hate this.

• 5:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:31Andrew Manganelli?

  And then Marquez this morning went, oh, look, you can turn it off. And we both collectively turned it off.

• 5:37Speaker 01

  There's still a Gemini button in the top right corner. There's still Gemini things all over the rest of your Google products, but that one, you can make it go away.

• 5:43Andrew Manganelli?

  There is still, when you click the image button, the first menu option is still generate an image, new, instead of upload from computer. And I still click it every single time I try and put a photo in our pot outline and it drives me insane.

• 5:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:58Andrew Manganelli?

  So very, very sad. But I'm sure that bottom thing, plenty of people won't turn it off and they'll get plenty of fake clicks to make it seem like people are using it. But for all you listeners out there, if you didn't want it and you didn't notice that, you can turn it off.

• 6:10Speaker 01

  Now you know.

• 6:10Andrew Manganelli?

  Now you know.

• 6:11Speaker 01

  All right, let's get into Google price hikes. Or sorry, Apple. Apple price hikes.

• 6:16Andrew Manganelli?

  What do you know that we don't?

• 6:18Speaker 01

  Because Google's that software. Uh, yeah, Apple price hikes. So last week at some point during Thursday, Apple, which they'd warned us about this, but they just went through, the Apple Store went down briefly. And then it came back up and there were a bunch of new prices for basically all of their products, almost every single hardware product that they sell.

• 6:36Speaker 03

  Is this like the top three worst Apple Store went down scenario?

• 6:40Andrew Manganelli?

  Dude, the tweets were so funny. It was like, "Apple Store's down. What are they cooking? What's coming next?" And then there's just like tweets right above it of like, "Price Store hikes, all the different changes."

• 6:49Speaker 01

  It's back. Yeah, the store comes back live and base prices, upgrade prices, tons of prices for all the different products that they sell have gone up. iPhone prices notably are unchanged. That was one thing that people were thinking would go up. But the things that did go up are Macs, iPads, Apple TVs, Home Pods, Vision Pros, across the board, prices are all higher. Now, I looked at these price increases and they're kind of interesting. They're kind of spread out across the board. Some of them, I mentioned on Twitter, some of them are higher than I expected them to be. Some of them are lower than I expected them to be. We know that the price increases are because of the RAM shortages and just how expensive it is to put memory in anything these days. And some of these products do have a lot of memory and some of them don't. But that does not seem to directly correlate

• 7:32Speaker 01

  with how high the price went up. It seems like more about, well, sort of an efficient balance, maybe this is a Tim Cook thing, of some products are higher volume and the price didn't go up as much. Some prices are lower volume, but the price went up more. Some prices went up, I think, more than they had to in order to make up for other prices not going up as much as they could.

• 7:53Andrew Manganelli?

  Would you say it's the opposite of higher volume possibly went up higher? Because like, the one that sticks out here, right? Like, there's some big ones. There's the M3 Ultra Max Studio went from $4,000 to $5,300. So $1,300 price increase.

• 8:09Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 8:10Andrew Manganelli?

  We saw the M4 Max Studio, $2,000, $2,500, $500. That's crazy. Vision Pro only went up $200.

• 8:19Speaker 01

  Yeah. So...

• 8:20Andrew Manganelli?

  That has to be because it's flopping so hard, no one's going to spend an extra thousand. Or obviously, like, compute, right? It's like a compute thing.

• 8:30Speaker 01

  There's a lot, I think there's a lot of factors. I think Vision Pro is already priced really high and the 200 extra dollars might be fine to cover that. But also, maybe if it was 4,000, that would look really bad. Like, there's optics they have to consider, there's supply chain stuff they have to consider. Also, yes, Vision Pro is not selling very much, so maybe the price increase there doesn't do much for them. Whereas, something like the MacBook Neo, which they're doing a ton of volume of, goes from $599 starting to $699 starting. Which means it's no longer like the crazy flaming good deal that it just was. It's still a pretty good deal. But that hundred bucks per unit will probably go further than the 200 bucks per unit on the Vision Pro, because volume is totally different.

• 9:12Speaker 03

  Also with things like the Mac Studio, like the M3, what was the Ultra that went up by 1300 bucks? I feel like people buying that, that's like a business expense. Like people doing that expect to be making their money back somehow by using the professional workflows with that. So they're willing, like Apple's like, those people will spend a little more and it's fine.

• 9:31Andrew Manganelli?

  And we, I think it was also pretty obvious we were going to see those specific price increases because Mac Mini in, was it in March or May, already got a price increase because we're seeing them sold out everywhere because of how the like compute to price ratio of what they are.

• 9:47Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 9:47Andrew Manganelli?

  So like this kind of, I mean, I think this obviously all comes down to compute again. It kind of reminds me of how we were talking about Steam Machine where like, if you price something and subsidize it to where you're giving such good bang for your buck of just pure power in this RAM shortage, you're probably going to eat it because people are going to take it and use it for machine learning and not necessarily all the things that you make money off of. So that's one of the things I was wondering here is like, does Apple see these price increases as like, what is our best chance of people still buying the products, but buying the products to use them as actual personal products, not AI machines?

• 10:28Andrew Manganelli?

  Because Apple clearly is making plenty of money on hardware, but they're also making a ton of money on subscriptions and software and people physically using the products.

• 10:38Speaker 01

  That's a commentary I've seen a lot is Apple's already been making a ton of money. Why do they have to increase prices at all? Why can't they just eat this? But one, I think the memory shortages and the price increases we've seen are pretty unprecedented. I don't know what Apple's supply costs are, but I feel like they, they just decided along with a lot of other companies, we have to raise prices.

• 10:58Speaker 01

  But I don't know if they're thinking so much about what people are doing with the machines. I don't think they have much control over that. I think it's more just what do we think is a reasonably acceptable price increase for the target demographic of the product? Some other ones that stood out to me were iPad Air goes from $599 to $749 for the 11-inch iPad Air. That's a different price bracket to me, it feels like. $599 was like, alright, I can stomach this. This feels like I'm not going to get an iPad Pro, but I could get this nice mid-priced iPad Air. Now $749 starting is quite a big difference there. That doesn't feel like a good deal anymore.

• 11:36Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, the iPad Air went up more than the MacBook Neo.

• 11:39Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, so that's 150 bucks extra there. Something like an Apple TV.

• 11:44Andrew Manganelli?

  This is my favorite one.

• 11:45Speaker 01

  The Apple TV was $129. They were selling that box. Now it's $199. That is a pretty, I think percentage-wise, might be the highest increase. That's close to like a 40% increase or something like that. That's pretty big. That's a totally different price bracket as well. HomePods, though, you know, not a lot of people buying HomePods. HomePods are already expensive. The regular HomePod goes from $299 to $349, and the HomePod Mini goes from $99 to $129. So some smaller, some bigger, just kind of a lot across the board to consider. And I'm sure the supply chain meetings to decide all these new prices were super exciting. Or maybe it's just Tim Cook with a spreadsheet just walking around going, do this, do this, do this, do this, do this, this.

• 12:25Speaker 04

  Why does the Apple TV need to go up at all?

• 12:27Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 12:28Andrew Manganelli?

  Why does the HomePod need to go up at all?

• 12:29Speaker 04

  It's for all the people that are using local AI on their Apple TV, right?

• 12:32Speaker 01

  I think that's another thing that people noticed is a lot of these products that don't have very much RAM at all were going up in price when they feel like they didn't have to, which I agree. But then a lot of the products that did have a ton of RAM were not going up as much as they feel like they could have. So I think some of these price increases are literally to subsidize other lack of price increases, if that makes any sense.

• 12:54Andrew Manganelli?

  I also want to note that saying everything we've said so far. Does not mean they had to make price changes, does not mean that the price changes are clearly not for Apple to make more money. We all agree with that. There's just like the reasons why they're making more money. They're still a trillion dollar company that wants to make as much money as possible. So obviously that's why they did it. This is, I think it's like, it's more, it's interesting to see what their reasonings were for things and how they were, because this is just like such a broad or all over the place in terms of where they increased prices. I still, yeah.

• 13:33Speaker 01

  So the number one-

• 13:34Andrew Manganelli?

  $70 increase.

• 13:36Speaker 01

  That is a big one percentage wise. The question I've seen the most chatter about on social media is, are these permanent or temporary price increases? And I have my thoughts. I think, I actually believe that they are temporary, but I do see valid on both sides. I see both sides of this argument. I think, I'll explain why I think they're temporary. I think a lot of the conversation, and we haven't gotten very many quotes from Apple, but a lot of the talk about these memory price increases has been like, this is unprecedented. We've literally never seen anything like this before. We've, our hand has been forced. This is like a spike in pricing. This is not how we want to continue to sell our products. We want to get back to eventually regular pricing someday, which all to me kind of implies like, we are

• 14:21Speaker 01

  raising prices here as long as this memory shortage slash AI data center boom is happening. And then once it's finally slowed, then we would love to go back down to regular prices, which is, you know, a good way to market as well. But I think the other thing people are saying a lot of is, yeah, these are greedy tech companies. Of course they're going to leave the prices as high as they are.

• 14:43Andrew Manganelli?

  There's plenty of greedy companies all over the place. That's just how it goes.

• 14:46Speaker 01

  They're making tons of money. And if, if they aren't like negatively impacted too much by raising the prices, why raise them, why lower them back down again? And I I see both sides of it. I kind of see it as like gas prices. It's like very closely tied to supply and demand. And if demand goes too far down, they can't leave the prices this high, especially if other competitors start lowering prices again. So I would I would like to be right and say that they will bring prices down at some point, months slash years into the future. But who knows?

• 15:19Andrew Manganelli?

  History probably doesn't seem to be on that side.

• 15:22Speaker 01

  I don't, I don't know.

• 15:23Andrew Manganelli?

  A lot of examples of things going up and coming back down when they see they're still selling.

• 15:28Speaker 01

  So there's a couple interesting examples there. And I I use the price of gas as an example, because like, gas did spike. And then it has started coming down, but it is more of a commodity. But we've seen, um, we've seen some products once in a while, like the Quest go down in price again. We've seen occasionally a smartphone model will go down in price again.

• 15:48Andrew Manganelli?

  When did?

• 15:48Speaker 01

  Or Quest, or sorry, Quest didn't go up.

• 15:51Andrew Manganelli?

  Quest did go up.

• 15:52Speaker 01

  Until it did. But I'm talking about older devices, older devices. Uh, I'm trying to think of like phones that dropped in price by like fifty to a hundred dollars. Wasn't there a?

• 16:04Speaker 01

  Well, I guess the the iPhone doubled in storage, but didn't go up in price. So like, things happen sometimes where you're like, oh, I could see them increasing the price, but then they don't. So I don't know. There's not that many precedents for price spike and then price drop again. I haven't really seen.

• 16:17Andrew Manganelli?

  I think my most optimistic assumption is me, I don't think any of these prices change on these specific items. I think maybe when new versions of them come out, we could either see,

• 16:32Andrew Manganelli?

  you know, depending on the global economics of what compute, uh, like pricing is, they go back to their normal, or we see them doing the game of like,

• 16:45Andrew Manganelli?

  you know, now the the Mac Neo two starts at six ninety nine, but starts at a higher storage or whatever like, and that's our like, this is higher, it's still a higher base barrier of entry, but we have more compute in it, or like it's a more powerful machine. Therefore, it's worth that price increase when probably really could have went back down to the other one. I don't know. That's like the, uh.

• 17:08Speaker 03

  The capitalist way of going back, but not really going back. I don't see this going down at all.

• 17:23Speaker 03

  It's definitely just New Jersey and not New York City.

• 17:25Speaker 01

  It's not like a World Cup or anything.

• 17:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, definitely never traffic in New York City.

• 17:30David Imel?

  Well, hey, at least the New York City traffic is generally predictably bad. Jersey is like, are you in hell or are you in hell plus plus?

• 17:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, I was gonna say, I don't think that, uh, these prices are, we're talking about Apple prices, by the way.

• 17:44David Imel?

  Okay.

• 17:44Speaker 03

  Prices going up for context.

• 17:46David Imel?

  Yep.

• 17:46Speaker 03

  Um, I don't think they're going back down just because, well, one, if it is temporary, it's temporary for a while. Like, it's gonna be a minute because of how everything is right now. It's not like temporary for another cut, like another month or two. This is like, it's looking like a year or two more, so.

• 18:03Speaker 01

  Like cycles.

• 18:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, like it's gonna be a while. And then on top of that, everywhere else in the world, technology is fairly expensive. The United States has been pretty like hidden from those calls for a long time. And I think that like barrier is kind of coming down now.

• 18:19Speaker 01

  I also think probably one of the best arguments that prices will stay and only continue to go up is just inflationary. Like if this lasts years, then by the time the crisis or whatever you want to call it is over, that's just the way, that's just the new norm, I guess, is the phrase people keep using. Like the prices of everything have have gone up and now the Neo is 6.99 and that's just the way it is.

• 18:43David Imel?

  Crazy me made that video like a couple of months ago and it's already completely different.

• 18:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, that was the, yeah, the sentiment is like, remember that three or four months when Apple had several of the best priced pieces of tech in the world? That was fun.

• 18:56David Imel?

  I felt bad for Quinn at Snazzy Labs because he just made a video a month ago about how like the whole premise of Apple devices being more expensive than their competitors are just completely gone now.

• 19:06Speaker 01

  It was.

• 19:07David Imel?

  It was.

• 19:07Speaker 01

  That, he was correct briefly.

• 19:09David Imel?

  For a moment in time.

• 19:10Speaker 01

  And now here we are.

• 19:11David Imel?

  A beautiful moment in time.

• 19:12Speaker 03

  There was a long time when Apple things were just regularly priced and now they're going back to being expensive.

• 19:17David Imel?

  Yeah, some of these MacBooks, oh my God, they added like 1,200, $1,400 to the pricing. It's, it's a lot.

• 19:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's a lot.

• 19:24David Imel?

  Memory increases, so.

• 19:26Speaker 01

  We'll keep an eye on it. Obviously, other companies are probably going to be increasing prices of tech as well. This also makes me think that that folding iPhone, when it launches later this year, is not gonna be cheap. Not gonna be cheap.

• 19:40David Imel?

  That thing was already gonna be like 2100. Now it's gonna be like 26 or something.

• 19:44Speaker 01

  We can probably rewind and find an old podcast episode where we were debating if it was over or under 2000. I think it's definitely over 2000.

• 19:50David Imel?

  Oh, it's 100% over 2000.

• 19:52Speaker 03

  Okay, question for you guys then. And David, this is perfect because you just got here. So you need no other context.

• 19:56David Imel?

  Okay.

• 19:57Speaker 03

  Do you think these price increases are gonna hit iPhone?

• 19:59David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 20:00Speaker 03

  Will it be the same price as last year's iPhone? Or will they all be $150 more expensive?

• 20:04David Imel?

  They could do the little magic that they do where they just get rid of the bottom tier, you know?

• 20:09Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, pretty much what I just said. Like, the new version of things are going to be like the more expensive price, but a little higher in power. So that will be their excuse. Wouldn't really...

• 20:19David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 20:19Speaker 03

  But even for iPhone?

• 20:20David Imel?

  Well, it's kinda hard. They already cut the lower storage tiers from the iPhone, right? Because that was your whole thing, was that Google was still offering low-storage phones and Apple wasn't.

• 20:30Andrew Manganelli?

  Well, it was that their lower tiers got better. Instead of cutting, Google cut their lower tier.

• 20:36David Imel?

  But now, well, the iPhone, the iPhone 17 had doubled the base storage to 128 and didn't go up in price.

• 20:44Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 20:45David Imel?

  So they got rid of the lower storage tier and they kept the price the same, which is good.

• 20:48Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah. I guess when I think of it, I think of the price tier. When I think of lower tier, I think the lower price tier. So in my eyes, Google just upgraded the lowest tier, or sorry, Apple upgraded the lowest tier, where Google got rid of the lowest tier, which then made the lowest tier more expensive.

• 21:02David Imel?

  Right.

• 21:03Speaker 01

  I tend to think, this kinda goes along with the rest of the price increases, which are sort of all across the board. I think Apple realizes they can't increase the price of certain things by too much. And I think the iPhone is one of the things that they know they don't want to have dramatic price increases on. So I think they're willing to do bigger price increases on other things to keep the iPhone competitively priced. I still think that, also, that folding one is gonna be expensive. But I think the base iPhone 18 and 18 Plus, for example, will probably not be $100 more expensive.

• 21:35David Imel?

  Yeah. It's hard because they're already at 256 gigs for the base tier.

• 21:40Speaker 01

  Okay, 256.

• 21:40David Imel?

  They moved it to 256.

• 21:42Speaker 01

  Yeah. I hope I don't eat my words.

• 21:44David Imel?

  They can't cut that and only offer a 512GB iPhone.

• 21:47Speaker 03

  So you think next iPhone will still be 799, the iPhone 18?

• 21:51Speaker 01

  I don't know if it'll be $7.99, but I don't think it'll be $9.99. I don't think it'll be a dramatic huge increase.

• 21:57David Imel?

  I could see $8.49.

• 21:58Andrew Manganelli?

  I don't think any subsidizing any of these things on this list will make up for what they would lose in the iPhones on keeping it the same price. They just sell way too many iPhones. The $70 Apple TV change isn't gonna cover.

• 22:12Speaker 01

  That's true.

• 22:12David Imel?

  The things that they should really be pushing the price on are the things that like businesses and enterprise use, like the Mac Studio and

• 22:18Andrew Manganelli?

  Which they did.

• 22:19David Imel?

  Yeah. Very much did. But even the MacBook Pro, I mean, regular people still buy MacBook Pros and they still jack the price a lot. So I feel like the cheaper things like the Neo and the MacBook Air, they should be trying to keep as low as possible. Obviously the Neo, they had to try to be really careful with that.

• 22:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:37David Imel?

  But yeah, it's interesting to even see a HomePod Mini price increase just because there's a little bit of RAM in there.

• 22:43Speaker 01

  A little bit.

• 22:46Speaker 04

  I just bought an M5 Max full spec, 128 8TB about two months ago.

• 22:53David Imel?

  Oh my god.

• 22:54Speaker 01

  That would have been.

• 22:55Speaker 04

  And I was saying, I was saying, I don't think I'm gonna be able to get this computer in a year. And you know what?

• 23:02David Imel?

  It's fair.

• 23:03Speaker 04

  I hope I can. I hope it comes back down, but it won't.

• 23:06David Imel?

  Yeah, they're supposed to release the MacBook Ultra at the end of the year. And I was like, I'm just gonna hold out for the Ultra, cause it's gonna be so different, you know, it's gonna have a better screen and all this stuff. Now I'm like, oh.

• 23:17Speaker 01

  So expensive.

• 23:18David Imel?

  That might be a $7,000 to $8,000 baseline computer.

• 23:21Speaker 01

  Base, you think?

• 23:22Speaker 04

  Nope.

• 23:22David Imel?

  I mean, six.

• 23:23Speaker 01

  I think it's, yeah, I think six something base, yeah.

• 23:26David Imel?

  Yeah, but for any upgrades, it's gonna be.

• 23:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's expensive.

• 23:30David Imel?

  Yeah. That laptop, if you give it some RAM, is probably gonna be over 10K. It's gonna be insane.

• 23:35Speaker 01

  I've, so if you wanna max out a MacBook Pro now, it's getting up there.

• 23:39David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 23:40Speaker 01

  It's getting up there now. But yeah, this is, you know, new screen, new design, all this new stuff, it could be pretty, pretty spicy.

• 23:45David Imel?

  Yeah, and that, that kinda feeds into the, the whole rumor that they're basically gonna release the MacBook Ultra with an M5 Ultra chip, right?

• 23:55Speaker 01

  Or an Ultra chip?

• 23:57David Imel?

  Was it that? Or was it the M?

• 23:58Andrew Manganelli?

  I think it was the M6.

• 23:59David Imel?

  M6. Cause I'm trying to remember what it was.

• 24:02Speaker 01

  I think the rumor I've, so I think the rumor I've seen now is they're going to have an M6 and then skip all the higher Tier versions of M6? And then M7 every version again.

• 24:15David Imel?

  So the MacBook Ultra will come out next year now.

• 24:18Speaker 01

  With M7?

• 24:19David Imel?

  With M7.

• 24:20Speaker 01

  Pro.

• 24:21David Imel?

  That could make sense. So maybe the reason they're...

• 24:22Speaker 01

  Get the whiteboard out.

• 24:23David Imel?

  Maybe one of the reasons they're doing that is because they are hoping that within the next year, year and a half, the RAM crisis kind of peters out a little bit and that way they don't charge $10,000 for MacBook Ultra. Like, they might scare the market a lot if they released a MacBook Ultra starting at $6,500.

• 24:41Speaker 01

  Interesting.

• 24:42David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 24:42Speaker 01

  You think the base MacBook Ultra is gonna be $6,500?

• 24:44David Imel?

  I mean, it could be...

• 24:46Andrew Manganelli?

  It's gotta be high.

• 24:47David Imel?

  It's gotta be up there.

• 24:48Andrew Manganelli?

  It in itself is basically saying, like, let's start towards the top of a MacBook Pro.

• 24:53David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 24:54Andrew Manganelli?

  Like, start.

• 24:55David Imel?

  Right.

• 24:55Andrew Manganelli?

  I think the base version's gonna be really powerful.

• 24:58David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 24:58Andrew Manganelli?

  Also.

• 24:59David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 24:59Speaker 01

  Yeah. I'm looking at a 9 to 5 Mac article, and there's a couple of people sourcing this, but basically from Bloomberg saying, "Apple will skip M6 Pro and M6 Max. It'll just be the base M6." So the stuff that gets the base chip can get M6. And then they'll start over with M7 by doing the whole lineup again. M7, Pro, Max, Ultra, all that stuff.

• 25:18David Imel?

  That is crazy.

• 25:20Andrew Manganelli?

  Even when you name things easily, they're impossible to follow. This M-series chip is really hard to understand.

• 25:27Speaker 01

  I've been waiting for a new Ultra chip in a Mac for so long. They stopped at M3 Ultra in the Mac Pro and the Mac Studio, but then M4 happened, no Ultra. M5 happened, no Ultra. M6 is gonna happen, no Ultra.

• 25:40David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 25:41Speaker 01

  So I'm gonna be waiting till M7 Ultra for a new Ultra chip? That's crazy.

• 25:44Andrew Manganelli?

  That's why it's funny seeing the M3 Ultra price increase being so much more than the M4 because of how confusing that is.

• 25:50Speaker 01

  Maybe they'll do an M5 Ultra.

• 25:53David Imel?

  I don't know. It seems like they're holding back on the more powerful stuff, right? If they're not planning on doing M6 Pro or M6 Mac?

• 25:59Speaker 01

  Oh, I did, yeah. Okay, I remember seeing this also on Twitter because there's also rumors of an M5 Ultra coming out with up to 768 gigs of memory.

• 26:07David Imel?

  Oh, right, right, right.

• 26:08Speaker 01

  And everyone went, "Oh, that computer's gonna be..."

• 26:10David Imel?

  You could buy a house instead.

• 26:11Speaker 01

  Really expensive.

• 26:13David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 26:13Speaker 01

  How expensive? I'm gonna just throw out a guess just to make myself look stupid.

• 26:17David Imel?

  Oh, I see.

• 26:18Speaker 01

  Um, 768 gigs of memory, that computer's gonna be $9,500.

• 26:23David Imel?

  Probably more. I think it could break the 10K barrier.

• 26:26Speaker 04

  No way. That's, that's like 18,000. If you spec it that high, like somewhere between like-

• 26:32David Imel?

  That much RAM is obscene.

• 26:33Speaker 04

  15 to 18,000, I bet.

• 26:35Speaker 01

  Let me look at the Mac Studio pricing right now.

• 26:37David Imel?

  But yeah, it's not gonna be cheap. My conspiracy theory, which we probably shouldn't talk about conspiracy theories on this podcast, is that OpenAI and Anthropic are intentionally make, having the RAM crisis happen because open sourced AI models are getting more and more popular, especially running on Mac hardware. And if it's affordable to buy enough RAM to run your own AI models, you don't have to use OpenAI or Anthropic for your AI stuff.

• 27:06Speaker 04

  This is a really compelling conspiracy.

• 27:08David Imel?

  I'm just saying, I'm just saying. So you have to go to the model providers because it's like, oh, only $20 a month as opposed to 796GB of RAM.

• 27:18Speaker 04

  I think you're on to something.

• 27:19Speaker 01

  Without checking apple.com.

• 27:20Speaker 04

  You should keep your voice down.

• 27:22Speaker 01

  Without checking apple.com, if you want to buy the most powerful, most expensive Mac Studio with just 96 gigs of memory and 16 terabytes of storage, how much do you think that would cost today?

• 27:35Speaker 04

  Today?

• 27:36David Imel?

  12K. Is it over 10?

• 27:37Andrew Manganelli?

  I don't know those prices at all. The most powerful-

• 27:41Speaker 01

  M3 Ultra.

• 27:42Andrew Manganelli?

  M3 Ultra, 90s.

• 27:45David Imel?

  12K.

• 27:46Speaker 01

  14,000.

• 27:47Speaker 04

  God, I was actually gonna say, you can't check the tape.

• 27:50Speaker 01

  You did start to say, I did, I did say that. 14,000.

• 27:55Speaker 01

  14,299 for that computer today. So if you're thinking M5 Ultra with 768 gigs of memory, that's gonna be really expensive.

• 28:06Speaker 04

  Not to- That's why I said what I said.

• 28:08Andrew Manganelli?

  W2 or M5 Ultra?

• 28:10David Imel?

  Not to give Apple like too much credit here, but remember when we used to buy Mac Studios for $50,000 each?

• 28:17Speaker 01

  It was the Mac Pros.

• 28:18David Imel?

  The Mac Pros.

• 28:19Speaker 01

  The Intel Mac Pros.

• 28:20David Imel?

  Intel Mac, that's what I mean. Yeah, sorry. Remember when we used to buy the Intel Mac Pros for $50,000 each?

• 28:24Speaker 04

  Just speak for yourself.

• 28:26David Imel?

  Well, yeah, not we, the company. But now, you know, we got so used to the price being so much cheaper for so much more performance.

• 28:35Speaker 04

  For unified memory, yeah.

• 28:36David Imel?

  Still, nobody should buy a $14,000 computer, generally.

• 28:41Speaker 01

  Um, yeah.

• 28:42Speaker 03

  How will I make my TikTok videos?

• 28:44Speaker 01

  That's true. This is the thing now. I, if you are capable of doing the work, like I've found that the amount of computer I need to buy to edit the videos that I make has gone down over the years, especially when you consider how expensive that Mac Pro was. We had $40,000 specs on the Intel Mac Pro and those AMD Radeon GPUs and Vega GPUs and a ton of memory. When those were 40K, then I started going down to a Mac Studio and then down to a MacBook Pro. I've been editing videos on this MacBook Pro, which costs less than $8,000, which is expensive, but compared to $40,000, it's like reverse inflation for how much I have to spend to edit. So I'm pretty excited to continue to spend less.

• 29:23Speaker 03

  Well, don't get too excited, because I'm.

• 29:24Speaker 01

  I'm just gonna edit on this. I'm gonna edit on this as long as I can.

• 29:27David Imel?

  Continue to spend less by not spending anything.

• 29:29Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 29:30David Imel?

  I'm also curious to see how the competitors respond to this because just recently Dell and a couple of other companies came out with their MacBook Neo competitor devices.

• 29:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, XPS 13.

• 29:39David Imel?

  Exactly.

• 29:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:40David Imel?

  And are they gonna raise their prices? Are they gonna eat it? Because Apple's the most well positioned to actually eat all of these prices.

• 29:48Speaker 01

  That's, I'm very curious, and I fully expect them to. I think the more volume you do, the more insulated you are because of your order sizes, et cetera. So I assume XPS 13 is selling less than MacBook Neo and therefore is more likely to require a larger price increase unless Dell is willing to subsidize it by increasing other things.

• 30:05David Imel?

  Which I just don't think they will.

• 30:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, I really don't think they will. I think that's due for a price increase as well.

• 30:10David Imel?

  Yeah, they don't have like 12 different products that they can just slightly update the price on.

• 30:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:16David Imel?

  Interesting.

• 30:16Speaker 01

  So we'll see.

• 30:17David Imel?

  All right. Well, I'm sorry to everybody who didn't buy a new computer yet.

• 30:21Speaker 01

  We'll have way more Galaxy stuff and others to talk about after the break, but before that, let's do trivia.

• 30:32Speaker 03

  Trivia. Do you want the Ellis question first or the me question first?

• 30:36David Imel?

  Who's Ellis?

• 30:38Speaker 01

  You mean Rufus?

• 30:38Andrew Manganelli?

  Never heard of him.

• 30:39Speaker 03

  Never heard of him. Who's that?

• 30:41Speaker 01

  I wanna.

• 30:41Speaker 03

  Today's his birthday, by the way.

• 30:43David Imel?

  Yeah, I say happy birthday, Ellis. If you made it to the end of the podcast, oh, we're not the end of the podcast. If you made it to this point in the podcast, say happy birthday, Ellis.

• 30:50Speaker 01

  I would like the Adam question first because I feel like I'll have like more, I'll like have my hopes up. Like I think I might get one right, you know?

• 30:57David Imel?

  It won't be as hard.

• 30:58Speaker 03

  All right, so I'll do my question first and then Rufus will read Ellis's next time.

• 31:01Speaker 01

  Okay, bet.

• 31:04Speaker 01

  I have in front of me a, well, not actually in front of me, but I have pulled up on the website, a maxed out MacBook Pro, inspired by Marquez, just digging around on the Apple website. How much does it cost?

• 31:15David Imel?

  16 inch?

• 31:16Speaker 01

  16 inch, maxed out.

• 31:18David Imel?

  I'm gonna try to do all of the, because the nano texture, yeah, yeah, yeah, all that stuff.

• 31:23Speaker 01

  The 8 terabyte SSD, 128 gigs of unified memory, all the good stuff.

• 31:28Speaker 03

  He said M4.

• 31:30Speaker 01

  M5 max.

• 31:32David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 31:33Speaker 04

  I know how much I paid for this when I got one a little while ago.

• 31:37David Imel?

  They added like, so much. They added like $2,300 or something.

• 31:42Speaker 01

  128 gigs and 8 terabytes.

• 31:44Speaker 03

  I think you guys could have answered this like four days ago, but now with the new price increases, how much is it?

• 31:47David Imel?

  Oh, boy. Well, I think they added $2,300, but I don't know how much it costs to begin with.

• 31:53Speaker 01

  So I guess I'll be.

• 31:54Speaker 03

  I'm gonna do delta for this.

• 31:55David Imel?

  Yeah, closest delta.

• 31:56Speaker 03

  Yeah, closest delta.

• 31:57Speaker 01

  Okay. All right, bet. All right, well, think about it. Answers will be at the end like usual. We'll be right back.

• 32:10Speaker 01

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• 32:52Speaker 01

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• 33:10Speaker 01

  Support for the show comes from Framer. The future of website building is one that seamlessly blends all of your tools that we have available, and you should use a platform that has it all and stays useful even after you launch. That's what Framer is. Framer is the AI website builder that helps creators, teams, and businesses ship production-ready sites faster than ever while getting every detail right. You're able to prompt, inspect, edit, and publish in one place at a whole new pace. On Framer, agents and humans work in tandem, so agents bring speed and scale, while people bring taste and judgment and control. And that's what all takes place in the same workspace where the real site is designed, managed, reviewed, and published. Everyone's ideas land on the canvas, stay editable, and can be published when the team is ready. Framer is an enterprise-level solution.

• 33:54Speaker 01

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• 34:39Speaker 01

  CRM. Pipe Drive automatically pulls deal history, email records, and previous conversations. You can walk into a call already briefed. During meetings, Pipe Drive's AI note taker records and takes notes, so you can stay in the conversation. Then it turns those notes into accurate, auto-drafted CRM updates, ready for you to review and approve. The end result: less admin, more selling. Switch to a CRM built by salespeople for salespeople and join the over 100,000 companies already using PipeDrive. Our link gets you an exclusive 30-day free trial instead of the usual 14-day trial. So no credit card or payment needed. Just head to pipedrive.com/wayform to get started. That's pipedrive.com/wayform and you could be up and running in minutes. All right, welcome back. We've got to talk now about a different company, Samsung.

• 35:24Speaker 01

  Samsung's been on this interesting tear and we kind of have some expectations for them, but they've started teasing this new Samsung Galaxy thing. They like deleted, they wiped their Instagram account and like started posting these new teasers. Basically have a bunch of different things with new aspect ratios.

• 35:42Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, like, you know, like a candy bar has all the pieces you can break off. So it was like four by three and they popped the top off. So now it's like, yeah, three by three, which doesn't actually represent the aspect ratio very well, but.

• 35:54Speaker 01

  But I think a lot of what they're teasing is this sort of small wide passport. You know, when you open your passport, that like aspect ratio, it's like that. And I think we're all expecting some sort of a foldable that is a little more squat, a little more wide and like passport shaped, similar to what we've seen in the past from like the, remember the first Pixel Fold?

• 36:16David Imel?

  Pixel Fold, Oppo Find N.

• 36:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, we're going to see that again.

• 36:20Andrew Manganelli?

  My favorite thing about the tease, real quick, is if you open it up on browser, because it's, they deleted like the grid, so the grid system comes up to show the pieces snapping off on top by being six in a row. It's four wide on a desktop, so none of the things match up.

• 36:34David Imel?

  If you're full screen. Cause I have, I have a drunken browser in it.

• 36:39Andrew Manganelli?

  People that aren't using a dying browser.

• 36:40David Imel?

  Hey, hey, hey. Just because something isn't being updated doesn't mean it's not.

• 36:46Andrew Manganelli?

  I would argue it probably is.

• 36:48David Imel?

  Debatable. I only have a couple of problems so far.

• 36:51Speaker 01

  But yeah, we were expecting new Samsung foldable and I'm curious to see how they're gonna market this as being particularly new or different because we have had this already and then we kind of like moved on from it, but now we're going back.

• 37:04David Imel?

  Yeah, it's funny that there were a few brands that did this, but then because everybody else was just doing regular phone that opens even bigger.

• 37:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:12David Imel?

  Everyone switched over to this.

• 37:14Andrew Manganelli?

  Because of Samsung essentially, like Samsung was so good at the folding phone. Everyone was like, well, that one's working. Let's do that one.

• 37:21David Imel?

  Even Google like used this at first and then moved on from it and now everyone's like, oh, well, Apple is kind of setting the trend, so I guess we have to do it first.

• 37:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, this is the kind of, almost along the same lines as the Air. Remember, we all knew the MacBook, we all know the iPhone Air was coming.

• 37:36David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 37:36Speaker 01

  And then in the middle of the year, Samsung went, oh, but yeah, here's ours. This is the Samsung Galaxy S25 Edge.

• 37:42David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 37:43Speaker 01

  And it was ultra-thin phone, better than the iPhone Air in a lot of ways, like had dual cameras, had a bigger battery and all that, but was just their own take on it before Apple, to preempt Apple. Now, all these rumors are floating around that this folding iPhone is gonna come out, first folding iPhone, and it's gonna be a more squat aspect ratio, similar to the phones we've talked about. And so Samsung's in the middle of this year gonna go, huh, well, I bet we could do that too.

• 38:07David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 38:07Speaker 01

  And so they're gonna keep doing the Z-fold in the candy bar style and shape and aspect ratio, but this is a new foldable that is like, I think they're calling it the Y? I think that's the rumor.

• 38:16Andrew Manganelli?

  I think, so the rumor is that it's, no, it's, sorry, that's just how I wrote it to.

• 38:21Speaker 01

  No, I think that's the rumor.

• 38:22David Imel?

  I thought the rumor was Galaxy Fold Y.

• 38:23Andrew Manganelli?

  The rumor I saw was just that it is the Galaxy Z Fold 8 and the new, the other one is the Galaxy Z Fold 8 Ultra.

• 38:30David Imel?

  Oh, so Ultra being the one that we're used to?

• 38:32Andrew Manganelli?

  Yes, which to me reminds me of Note 10.

• 38:35David Imel?

  Okay.

• 38:36Andrew Manganelli?

  Which kind of worries me because in Note 10 land, we had the Note 10 and the Note 10 Ultra, right?

• 38:41David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 38:41Andrew Manganelli?

  And everyone really liked the size of the Note 10, but the Note 10 also got a bunch of downgrades compared to the Note 10 Ultra.

• 38:49David Imel?

  It was like plastic, wasn't it?

• 38:50Andrew Manganelli?

  It was like plastic back, it had worse RAM, like it didn't have as nice of cameras. Like, if I remember correctly, almost everything about it was slightly worse. And the leaks we got from Android headlines show the... I'll call it the Note 8, but I'm still gonna call it the wide, just for audio listeners to make sure we're talking about the same thing. The Fold 8 wide version, the passport version, only has two cameras in the leak that we're seeing. There's some case manufacturer that probably leaked it and

• 39:15David Imel?

  That's clever.

• 39:16Andrew Manganelli?

  It looks like a like 3x2 aspect ratio, but two cameras. So I'm wondering if everything about this is going to be slightly worse than the candy bar style.

• 39:25David Imel?

  Wait.

• 39:25Andrew Manganelli?

  Ultra Fold 8 Ultra.

• 39:26David Imel?

  3x2 is cool for previewing photos, just saying.

• 39:29Speaker 01

  This could be, this could be extremely clever positioning from Samsung, I think. Because if you look at all the rumors of what the iPhone Fold is gonna be, that's, that's all the same. Dual cameras, squat aspect ratio. And if you're Samsung and you're marketing, wow, I feel, I feel like you can get really clever. You can go, hey, alright, we have had this candy bar style phone, which is really great to use while closed, and you can open it up and have a big screen. But, oh, if you want like a sort of a compromised experience where it's not that great to use while closed, but you can at least have a bigger like screen open, here's a less premium version. It's only dual cameras, it's only this smaller passport shape.

• 40:11Speaker 01

  And then we can have the Ultra, which is actually more fun to use while closed. And then when Apple comes out with theirs, you go, oh, Apple made one of the compromised shaped ones with dual cameras and passport shape.

• 40:21Andrew Manganelli?

  I didn't know that's where you were.

• 40:22Speaker 01

  But we're Samsung and we also offer the big bad Ultra.

• 40:25David Imel?

  Oh, that's interesting.

• 40:26Speaker 01

  I think that's the clever, like, at least that's how I could see it.

• 40:30David Imel?

  Yeah, look at the compromise, you only get two cameras, you have to do this.

• 40:34Andrew Manganelli?

  That would be [bleep] though.

• 40:35David Imel?

  That would be, that'd be pretty messed up.

• 40:37Speaker 01

  That'd be some chess.

• 40:38Andrew Manganelli?

  I think my issue with it and why I compare it to the Note 10 is like, it makes me wish they were both just essentially the same thing, but you as the consumer get to pick which size you prefer.

• 40:49David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 40:49Andrew Manganelli?

  But if it does wind up being, and I haven't seen any specs other than the camera, so I don't know if it's gonna have like slightly worse materials, slightly different battery or, I mean, it'll probably have a different battery.

• 41:00Speaker 01

  Probably smaller battery.

• 41:01Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, but um, like.

• 41:04Andrew Manganelli?

  Then I just wanted to pick my size and still have the same performance. This feels like A B testing titles and thumbnails where the two thumbnails are completely different. And what did we learn out of that? I don't really know. Instead of two thumbnails that are the same, but one has an arrow and one doesn't have an arrow. It'd be like, okay, people really do prefer the bigger size. Well, do they prefer the bigger size or did they prefer the better specs at it? When you're spending that much money already.

• 41:27David Imel?

  Scientifically, the Ultra sells more for Samsung because in America, we basically do carrier plans and everything is the difference between $18 a month and $20 a month. So, yeah.

• 41:38Speaker 01

  Interesting. I could see that. I mean, you do want to isolate one variable and see if people like one thing over the other. But in this case, there's going to be a bunch of things different about these phones. So.

• 41:47Andrew Manganelli?

  Maybe not. Hopefully it's just the cameras and the size and maybe they're running similar. I just don't know if that's.

• 41:54Speaker 01

  I would assume that this Ultra will be more expensive and the small wide. Yeah, will be less expensive.

• 42:01Andrew Manganelli?

  And they're going to want to put enough of a gap in there that it doesn't feel too close.

• 42:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:06Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, yeah.

• 42:07David Imel?

  Interesting. Well, we'll see in a couple of weeks, I guess, because that's supposed to drop.

• 42:11Andrew Manganelli?

  Sometime in July.

• 42:12David Imel?

  Sometime in July or August. I don't know. Something like that.

• 42:15Speaker 01

  Coming up. Speaking of drop, because you said it was going to drop in July. Polestar is dropping out of the US market entirely.

• 42:25David Imel?

  Kind of being pushed out in a way.

• 42:27Speaker 01

  Yeah. And this makes me sad.

• 42:29David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 42:29Speaker 01

  I, well, it's funny. I like a lot of the Volvo EVs and I actually like some of the Polestars. And it is unfortunate to have that competition leave the US market because I thought the Polestar 2 was a solid option. That's the most realistic one to recommend to most people. It's by far their most popular one. The lineup gets a little confusing after that because it's a midsize crossover and then another midsize crossover and another midsize crossover. But that's okay. They looked nice. They drove nice. They had nice speakers. They had these Spartan super clean interiors. But the Polestar 2 was solid and it's a shame to see it going away.

• 43:02David Imel?

  Yeah. So effectively what's happening here is the US government kind of issued this order that you cannot have cars that run software from China. If you didn't know, Polestar is a sub. Brand of Geely. Geely is a giant Chinese automaker. For some reason Volvo, which is also owned by Geely, was given authorization to sell cars here. I think this could be one of those things where the US government's like Volvo, we've had Volvo forever. Polestar is a new thing. Get rid of it.

• 43:29Andrew Manganelli?

  It is confusing because like Volvo is a Swedish company, right? That then got bought by Geely and then, but what's even more confusing is don't both of them run Android Automotive for their software?

• 43:40David Imel?

  Yes.

• 43:42Speaker 01

  Which is Google.

• 43:43David Imel?

  Yeah, I'm not sure. There might be some like code in the way that it the card.

• 43:49Andrew Manganelli?

  Well, I guess like where's where's data going back to?

• 43:53David Imel?

  Yeah, I don't know. I still think it's one of those things where the government just doesn't understand the difference. And we've seen a lot of companies do this, like people don't like DJI, so they launch a sub brand, you know, like the the government doesn't like OnePlus, so they launch a sub brand. And then and then they're allowed into the US. So it's it's very strange. But they're going to be continuing to sell all of their leftover stock in the US, but they won't be able to sell after model year 2027 and forward. Yeah, it kind of sucks. I personally did not like the Polestar 2 that much because the interior felt like very, very cramped. Even though I felt that they were one of the best looking cars on the outside.

• 44:33David Imel?

  But either way, it's not it's not fun to see our options disappearing, especially because in the United States, our car brand options are already very limited compared to a lot of other countries.

• 44:43Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, it sounds like New York City just got a bunch of new taxis, just like the.

• 44:47David Imel?

  Just like the Fisker. Uh, okay. Next quick story. WhatsApp is launching usernames.

• 44:55Speaker 01

  This is my least favorite thing.

• 44:56David Imel?

  It's your least favorite thing?

• 44:57Speaker 01

  Whoa, whoa.

• 44:58David Imel?

  Wait, wait, wait, wait. Give me.

• 44:59Speaker 01

  Because every time a company launches a new thing and they let you pick a username, the second I go to pick my username, it's already taken. And I never get my username.

• 45:08Andrew Manganelli?

  That is quicker. I'll sell it to you.

• 45:11David Imel?

  I've been parking it for you.

• 45:13Speaker 04

  You telling me you haven't already been testing this for two weeks?

• 45:15David Imel?

  I wish, yeah. So, this is pretty straightforward. Basically, previously, it hooked up to your phone number. Now, you can pick a username. I think, in general, this is a good thing. I understand that for you, this is probably not, and kinda sucks. Honestly, I think what they should do is, because it's hooked up to your Instagram, if you're hooked up to your Instagram account through WhatsApp, it should automatically park on that username for you. And then you can decide if you want to keep it or not. And then if you don't... I saw people online saying not to do that, though, because then, if you have a very public social media, now they can just message you on WhatsApp. They can't, though, because they did add a feature where you can... Only people with a special private code can message you through your username.

• 45:58David Imel?

  So, when I signed up for my username, you know? And when I did it, it said, there was an option that was like, "Only let people message you if they have your private code." And it gave me a private code. So, basically, you send it to someone, you say, "Oh, I'm this on WhatsApp, and here's my code." And then that's how they can start a conversation with you. Hey, friend, if you want to message me? Here's a code to let you message me? You know. I don't know, that feels... I would also assume that if they scanned your QR code or something, like when you first give them your WhatsApp account... Yeah, then it would automatically... Doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose of having a username? Well... I wish it was more like Instagram, where you just have my main inbox and then like a secondary inbox. Yes, but the other half of that is impersonation,

• 46:42David Imel?

  because if there's someone out there with the official MKBHD username on WhatsApp, and it's not me? Yeah. What the [bleep] is that? Yeah, it's true. That's like, the most obvious, like... Maybe they're just doing this so that they can do a unified verification system, even though Meta Verified is not actually verification. It's just a... I also wonder if they... ...play like Twitter. Don't want to connect to Instagram as much, because Instagram getting banned in the EU, but WhatsApp is not part of that, and they want to keep those apart as much as possible. They let you, though. When I signed up for the username, it said, "Do you want to just use your Instagram username?" And then it did a little lock icon, kinda like the Apple one. Wow, very important. Very important. I also just want to point out that six years ago, it wasn't me this time, it was Adam. Adam made a video.

• 47:26Andrew Manganelli?

  Bring this up.

• 47:27David Imel?

  When him and I used to work at Android Authority, Adam made a very controversial video at the time, which he was right all along, about how we shouldn't have phone numbers anymore and we should just have usernames.

• 47:39Speaker 01

  I could get on board.

• 47:40David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 47:40Andrew Manganelli?

  I did have multiple people reach out to me afterwards and bring up some very compelling reasons why that shouldn't be the case, but overall, I do stand by it. I think it would be a better world if we had just usernames or something instead of phone numbers.

• 47:53David Imel?

  And to be fair, at the time, we were trying to revitalize a dying YouTube channel, so we just kind of threw a [BLEEP] at the wall.

• 47:59Speaker 01

  It was a hot take at the time.

• 48:00David Imel?

  I mean, it was, yeah. We were like, Adam, can you make something? Anyway, he did.

• 48:05Andrew Manganelli?

  Hold my beer.

• 48:05David Imel?

  I think it's good. I think it's good.

• 48:07Andrew Manganelli?

  All right. PlayStation is ending physical disc production. Also, for everyone reading this, I'm sorry how often I wrote disc like a frisbee and not like a disc, like a PlayStation disc. Cause I'm pretty sure that's a K. Marquez didn't even notice until I read it.

• 48:21David Imel?

  Oh, I didn't notice either.

• 48:22Andrew Manganelli?

  You can tell, you can look, it swaps back and forth, because I realize sometimes. Anyways, Sony just announced that January 2028 and on, they will stop the production of physical discs for new PlayStation games. Only digital versions will be available. And this, I think, has initial reaction from almost everybody. So before we get to that, I'm going to play bad guy, or good guy, or Sony, and say a couple of reasons why they're probably doing this.

• 48:48David Imel?

  Okay.

• 48:49Andrew Manganelli?

  Physical games are sold way less often. Most people don't want to wait for delivery or go to a store.

• 48:53David Imel?

  Yep.

• 48:54Andrew Manganelli?

  Game discs for PCs have been dead for ages.

• 48:57David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 48:57Andrew Manganelli?

  We download things. I'll throw out the little Apple, look at us, we good. Environmentally beneficial, because that's a lot of waste, plastic and discs that probably get thrown out. And giant profit margins and capitalism, when you don't have to make physical things. That's probably the main reason. Let's all be real careful.

• 49:17David Imel?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 49:18Speaker 01

  Did I boo you now, or?

• 49:21David Imel?

  I just plan on pointing out that Sony put out a video a while ago for the PS4 that I just need you guys to watch, okay? I'm gonna have you watch this. I don't know if you already watched it, but it's very funny. Came out 13 years ago, to be fair. A lot changes in 13 years.

• 49:35Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 49:36David Imel?

  This is called, "Official PlayStation Used Game Instructional Video."

• 49:40Speaker 01

  I remember this.

• 49:41David Imel?

  From the PlayStation account.

• 49:42Speaker 01

  I remember this.

• 49:43David Imel?

  Okay.

• 49:44Speaker 05

  This is how you share your games on PS4.

• 49:56Speaker 05

  Thanks.

• 49:59Speaker 01

  Wasn't this done as a retort to some other console that Xbox, they stopped?

• 50:03David Imel?

  Probably something like Xbox, yeah. And so, and I also, and I also need to point out that last week Sony removed a ton of movies that people had already bought from the PlayStation Store because they ran out of their licensing deal for them. And they just, people cannot watch those movies anymore, even though they bought them, there's no refunds offered.

• 50:21Speaker 01

  Unless they have a disk.

• 50:22David Imel?

  We are living in modern digital surfdom. You do not own anything, you are renting a license by paying money. And it's bad. And that's a reason why the discs should sell this, even though most discs are just kind of ways for the console to actually talk to the internet and say, oh, hey.

• 50:40Speaker 01

  Nowadays.

• 50:41David Imel?

  Yeah, nowadays. Anyway.

• 50:43Speaker 06

  Well, well, well. Here we are again, once back in our digital surfdom.

• 50:50David Imel?

  Resident Gamer Mariah is in the house.

• 50:52Speaker 06

  I just want to say, I saw this article this morning, I got so mad, it gave me a headache immediately. I'm an avid physical media consumer for games. And I don't trust companies.

• 51:06David Imel?

  And probably a good.

• 51:07Speaker 01

  There we go.

• 51:10Speaker 06

  In fact, I was actually researching this for a video recently. And in the short term, I personally, in my personal opinion, I don't think it's bad to reduce e-waste and all those kinds of things coming from discs and streamlining the process and making it cheaper for consoles that don't need to have disk drives and all that kind of stuff. But I do support resale and fair competition. And as you will note recently, that the, um, let's see, we've had a bunch of different online digital stores actually close down within the past five or six years since COVID. We had the Wii Online Store shut down, the Nintendo E-Shop, the Wii U Shop, Nintendo 3DS shut down.

• 51:51Speaker 06

  Xbox 360 stuff became limited over the past couple of years. So I don't trust companies with preservation and like availability to games.

• 52:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:02Speaker 06

  And so there's a really great foundation, if anyone actually wants to research this, called the Video Game History Foundation, who would like to provide access to researchers and other people who would like to be a part of video game preservation. And I suggest following them. And we'll see what happens with Sony in the next couple of years.

• 52:22Speaker 01

  Very nice.

• 52:22Speaker 06

  And that's my rant.

• 52:23Speaker 01

  Good shout out.

• 52:24Andrew Manganelli?

  I feel like, I know I mentioned like PC games don't have discs and haven't forever, but like consoles feel like, like a time capsule. There's like this, like this is six years of video games on one thing. And the fact that all of us now can go out and buy the like, systems we grew up with. Like if I want to go play Spyro on a PS1, like it's probably not the hardest thing to find. It might be a little pricey, but not crazy. Or N64 cartridges are still kicking ass out there. I mean, they're expensive, but you can find them and you can play those games. And like, I can show my kids the games that I played back then, because they don't know that Crysis looks almost identical.

• 53:02Speaker 01

  Is this gonna happen?

• 53:03Andrew Manganelli?

  Instead, they're gonna play GoldenEye and be like, the aiming in this game sucks.

• 53:06Speaker 01

  Is this, is this the same thing that happens to music? Where we all used to buy albums?

• 53:11Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, yeah.

• 53:11Speaker 01

  And now in the future, kids are not gonna know what that's like. But we'll have our albums and we'll be like, this is, I, this is the one I bought.

• 53:18Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 53:18Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 53:19Speaker 01

  It'll be like a, like a relic of, of former times.

• 53:22Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 53:22Speaker 06

  Yeah. It's that, I think it's, in my opinion, it's also all the indie games on the storefronts. And once the storefronts disappear, access to the indie games and the smaller developers also will maybe disappear with it as well. There's a really cool video from a YouTuber called The Completionist, where when the Nintendo, Wii U and 3DS Store shut down, he downloaded every single game in the storefront, every single one before it shut down. And then he donated it to the foundation for research purposes.

• 53:49Speaker 01

  That's very cool.

• 53:50Speaker 06

  Very noble, very sick. I hope we don't have to do that again in the near future.

• 53:54Speaker 01

  Wouldn't it be cool if we had some sort of protocol?

• 53:59David Imel?

  That all the games could be hosted on online.

• 54:03Andrew Manganelli?

  Stop!

• 54:03David Imel?

  Everyone's computers could run this protocol to help seed these games.

• 54:10David Imel?

  Yeah, well.

• 54:11Speaker 01

  That would be nice.

• 54:11David Imel?

  It's depressing. I, um, yeah, I don't like digital serfdom.

• 54:15Speaker 06

  Anyway.

• 54:15Andrew Manganelli?

  That video of them is like the quintessential big company makes stand regrets it a lot later when it gets put against them. Yeah, it was literally the Netflix sharing password tweet.

• 54:27David Imel?

  Yes.

• 54:28Andrew Manganelli?

  Like, yep, that's, this is fun. We're all for this.

• 54:31Speaker 01

  Age like milk.

• 54:33David Imel?

  Yeah, and also the Samsung haircut.

• 54:36Andrew Manganelli?

  The notch haircut.

• 54:38Speaker 01

  That one aged so, it was like two years later.

• 54:41David Imel?

  Something like that, something like that. So, well, speaking of gaming, um, last week we talked a lot about the Dbrand companion cube accessory for the Steam machine.

• 54:50Andrew Manganelli?

  I don't think we talked about it at all.

• 54:52David Imel?

  Uh, never mind.

• 54:54Speaker 01

  But it did exist.

• 54:55David Imel?

  Well, if you didn't.

• 54:56Andrew Manganelli?

  I meant to talk about it. I just, we were too busy.

• 54:58David Imel?

  I really thought we did.

• 55:00Andrew Manganelli?

  I had it in there and we just talked about the machine.

• 55:02David Imel?

  That's crazy. Well, Dbrand made this really cool companion cube accessory. Um, I say made because they're not making it anymore. Basically what happened is they didn't ask permission from Valve, which is crazy. Didn't we talk about the, the video they made for it?

• 55:17Andrew Manganelli?

  Before, man, we were just watching it.

• 55:18David Imel?

  Are you kidding me? Okay, well, this apparently wasn't on the podcast. Dbrand made some incredible launch video for this where they used like the Cave Johnson voice and a bunch of companion cube stuff and some portal guns and like the robots from Portal Atlas and like those guys. And everyone's like, wow, this is crazy. This feels like an official Valve video. It's wild that Dbrand was able to do this. Turns out they weren't able to do this.

• 55:40Andrew Manganelli?

  I also know, I mean, we're close. Okay, first off, Dbrand is a major sponsor of the channel, so everything we say is just disclosure.

• 55:49Andrew Manganelli?

  I find if I never thought that and I hadn't talked to them before or anything about it. Dbrand's always kind of been a

• 55:55David Imel?

  They kind of go rogue all the time.

• 55:56Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, they go rogue all the time. They did the dark plates with the

• 56:00David Imel?

  Oh, yeah.

• 56:00Andrew Manganelli?

  The marketing term of like SUA Sony and they've had logos in the past that they had to like uh, stop including. It's just kind of their vibe.

• 56:10David Imel?

  That's true.

• 56:10Andrew Manganelli?

  Which is a fast and loose vibe and I'm sure they're very aware.

• 56:14David Imel?

  Sometimes they'll like show a case for an unreleased phone before the phone comes out.

• 56:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:19David Imel?

  Which I'm sure the company is not happy for.

• 56:21Speaker 01

  They just kind of wing it sometimes. Yeah, this is a maybe backfiring on the winging it part.

• 56:25David Imel?

  Yeah, they made a big apology post on Reddit and they said that they definitely should have asked first. They did try to plead with Valve to work out some sort of licensing deal. They said no, they said that was fair. So unfortunately, not going to see the light of day. However, I'm sure that we will see a bunch of 3D printed faceplates and stuff like that because the entire point of the steam machine is to be able to be modded physically.

• 56:49Andrew Manganelli?

  We have one of the cubes. It's sick. Sorry to say for all the people who don't get to have one.

• 56:54David Imel?

  I'm gonna look at it after the podcast.

• 56:57Andrew Manganelli?

  I saw a lot of people saying, hopefully they'll release the STL file. Is that a 3D printing file? Which a lot of people appropriately responded like this hasn't, doesn't just have to do with the fact that it's like something they're selling. It's the distribution of copyrighted trademark material. Like they're definitely not going to be able to release that.

• 57:16David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 57:17Andrew Manganelli?

  But yeah, it's a bummer. They couldn't. It's obviously a huge mistake that they made that they know because Dbrand's great at being transparent.

• 57:26David Imel?

  Yeah. They also said it was their second fastest selling product ever, only behind the kill switch case for the switch.

• 57:32Andrew Manganelli?

  Sure.

• 57:33David Imel?

  Uh, which is great, which, which actually tells you a little bit about steam machine demand.

• 57:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, that should imply that steam machines, despite all that we said last week about how expensive they were, are still pretty in demand.

• 57:45David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 57:45Speaker 01

  To the point where people are buying accessories for it.

• 57:47David Imel?

  It sold out instantly in Japan.

• 57:48Andrew Manganelli?

  Alex got screwed over with his steam machine because he put in his reservation for the like 512 gigabyte model. And then like the day he was supposed to get his place in line went, oh wait, I'm going to do the two terabyte one. And then got launched like months back in the line and

• 58:03David Imel?

  Ouch.

• 58:03Andrew Manganelli?

  Isn't getting one.

• 58:04Speaker 01

  Hey, speaking of sold out, did you guys see that random headline that the Ferrari Luce, despite all that we talked about it, also sold out in China?

• 58:12Andrew Manganelli?

  Only Marques could segue.

• 58:14David Imel?

  In China.

• 58:15Speaker 01

  Now, do you know how many cars that was?

• 58:16Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, wait, did you find out?

• 58:17Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 58:18David Imel?

  Is it 12?

• 58:19Speaker 01

  No.

• 58:20David Imel?

  Is it more than 12?

• 58:21Andrew Manganelli?

  35.

• 58:21Speaker 01

  More than 12.

• 58:22David Imel?

  100.

• 58:22Speaker 01

  More than 35.

• 58:23David Imel?

  More than 100?

• 58:24Speaker 01

  Not more than 100.

• 58:27Speaker 01

  All 88 Luches for that market.

• 58:29David Imel?

  They made 88 for China.

• 58:30Andrew Manganelli?

  In all of China?

• 58:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:32Andrew Manganelli?

  Known little country China.

• 58:33Speaker 04

  How do they come up with 88?

• 58:35Speaker 01

  I don't know how many they were planning on making, but that's what the article said, 88.

• 58:38Speaker 04

  So you just like, you take orders for six minutes and then you cap and you're like, we sold out?

• 58:42Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 58:42Speaker 04

  We sold out, we sold out of all of the ones.

• 58:44Speaker 01

  They came to that market with the number 88 and they were like, this is how many we're gonna sell here?

• 58:49Speaker 04

  You know what? I think it's lucky.

• 58:50David Imel?

  Is it important in China?

• 58:51Speaker 04

  I think it's lucky.

• 58:51David Imel?

  Probably, yeah. I think eights are important. Oh yeah, cuz Snapdragon 8, that's what they call the Snapdragon 8 because in China, 8 is a lucky number.

• 58:57Speaker 04

  Yeah, they figured if they called it Snapdragon.

• 58:58Andrew Manganelli?

  They had a Snapdragon 7 series, didn't they?

• 59:00Speaker 04

  Yeah, but that wasn't lucky.

• 59:01Speaker 01

  The flagship one was 8. The 7 and 6 are just cut down versions. But yeah. Alright, well.

• 59:09Speaker 04

  That's just a fun.

• 59:09Andrew Manganelli?

  You just wanted that Luché jab in there.

• 59:11Speaker 04

  Just wanted to throw that in there.

• 59:12David Imel?

  How many did they sell out in America?

• 59:15Speaker 01

  Uh, that I don't know. I just saw the Luché sold out in China and I was like, wow, what does sold out mean? So I clicked the article and that was, that was the number.

• 59:23David Imel?

  Very nice.

• 59:23Speaker 01

  Instant sellout.

• 59:24David Imel?

  Very nice. Instant sellout?

• 59:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:26David Imel?

  Okay. Well, we have another trivia question.

• 59:31Speaker 01

  Nice.

• 59:35Speaker 01

  Apple, the company that has always overcharged for RAM, is now charging even more for RAM.

• 59:43David Imel?

  True.

• 59:43Speaker 04

  It's true.

• 59:44Speaker 01

  But what Apple offering has increased price over 2.5 times since its launch in 2019?

• 59:55David Imel?

  Polishing cloth.

• 59:57Speaker 04

  What Apple offering?

• 59:58Andrew Manganelli?

  What Apple offering?

• 59:59Speaker 01

  So this is an option or a product?

• 1:00:01Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, I thought you were saying offering.

• 1:00:04Speaker 01

  It is a product. Okay.

• 1:00:07David Imel?

  So a digital product?

• 1:00:08Speaker 01

  What Apple product has increased in price 2.5x since 2019?

• 1:00:14Andrew Manganelli?

  Since it launched in 2019?

• 1:00:16Speaker 01

  It launched in 2019 and since its launch, its price has increased over 2.5 times.

• 1:00:23David Imel?

  I have an idea. I think I might.

• 1:00:26Speaker 04

  It's not AirTag.

• 1:00:27Andrew Manganelli?

  AirPower.

• 1:00:30Speaker 04

  That one's been free the whole time.

• 1:00:32David Imel?

  It's free and priceless at the same time.

• 1:00:34Speaker 01

  I think we should go to the break.

• 1:00:36David Imel?

  Okay.

• 1:00:36Andrew Manganelli?

  Before we spoil it?

• 1:00:37Speaker 01

  It's break time.

• 1:00:37David Imel?

  Break.

• 1:00:38Speaker 01

  Be right back.

• 1:00:38David Imel?

  Break.

• 1:00:47Speaker 01

  Support for the show comes from Jira by Atlassian. So AI is only as useful as the context it has to work from. But when that context is scattered across tools like threads and DMs, that means your team and your AI agents end up flying kind of blind. That's the problem Jira solves. What's the goal tied to your project? What got decided last week in Slack? Atlassian's teamwork graph pulls all of these pieces together from Jira, Confluence, Slack, GitHub, and more. So nothing falls through the cracks. With Jira, you can actually share that context with the AI agents you already use, like Claude, Cursor, and GitHub Copilot, assign them work directly, or connect your agents through MCP. Spend less time digging through endless links and DMs, less time chasing down what got decided and by who, and more time actually shipping. Learn more at jira.com.

• 1:01:32Speaker 01

  That's J-I-R-A dot com.

• 1:01:35Speaker 07

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• 1:02:13Speaker 07

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• 1:02:42Andrew Manganelli?

  Okay, welcome back. I have one more thing for the end of this podcast because I've just been confused on Twitter.

• 1:02:49David Imel?

  Nice.

• 1:02:50Andrew Manganelli?

  And I'm generally confused about AI, but these ones are specifically confusing to me.

• 1:02:53David Imel?

  It's a natural state of being on Twitter is confused.

• 1:02:56Andrew Manganelli?

  That's super fair. And I hate to say it, but I will be on Twitter a lot today because hockey free agency starts and I'm very excited for it. I think LeBron's gonna go to the Buffalo Sabres. Anyways.

• 1:03:08Andrew Manganelli?

  Okay, we've seen a million different AI things, but there are two that I've been just bothering me a lot because I don't really understand what they're trying to do.

• 1:03:16David Imel?

  Okay.

• 1:03:17Andrew Manganelli?

  The first one is more recent. I think it's called Poke. Just Poke, right? Is it Poke or Poke?

• 1:03:24David Imel?

  Poke.

• 1:03:24Andrew Manganelli?

  Poke, okay.

• 1:03:25David Imel?

  Poke, okay.

• 1:03:25Andrew Manganelli?

  Poke. It was already an AI that lives inside of things like iMessage, WhatsApp, Telegram. Essentially, it is, you know, an AI chatbot that lives inside your messaging apps.

• 1:03:34David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:34Andrew Manganelli?

  I believe so.

• 1:03:35David Imel?

  I've used this.

• 1:03:36Andrew Manganelli?

  You have used it?

• 1:03:36David Imel?

  I have used this.

• 1:03:37Andrew Manganelli?

  Okay, well, their new version of it is called Poke Humans. And they have this insanely confusing hype video that's just a bunch of messages going back and forth that I can't really follow. But it seems like essentially, when you are talking to your chatbot, if something gets too confusing for it to do for you, it will bring you to a human to start doing that thing. This is just customer service.

• 1:04:03David Imel?

  Actual intelligence.

• 1:04:04Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, like, this is just your personal assistant, but like you're on a call with Comcast customer service, where like, you have to go through 20 different AI recordings to try and just tell you your bill instead of actually figure anything out. And then it brings you to a customer service agent who also has no idea what they're doing.

• 1:04:22David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:23Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm so confused by this because I can't imagine the humans being paid to do this are making enough money that it's not just a call center again, that probably doesn't really know what's going on, especially in your personal life, because I assume this is supposed to be a...

• 1:04:39David Imel?

  Yeah. Like, give it all of your data.

• 1:04:42Andrew Manganelli?

  Personal assistant, yeah.

• 1:04:42David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:43Andrew Manganelli?

  So like, they definitely can't afford to have really high quality training. I mean, what was the, um, what was that phone that had the?

• 1:04:51David Imel?

  Oh, the one Mark was reviewing.

• 1:04:53Speaker 04

  Oh, the assistant?

• 1:04:54Andrew Manganelli?

  What's it called? Why can't I think?

• 1:04:55David Imel?

  Caviar phone.

• 1:04:56Speaker 04

  Caviar.

• 1:04:56Andrew Manganelli?

  No, no, no, not Caviar. The Virtu, but what's it called at a hotel when somebody?

• 1:05:00Speaker 04

  Concierge.

• 1:05:01Andrew Manganelli?

  Concierge, thank you. Uh, it reminds me of that because that was like, cool, personal concierge. Instead, random person from across the country who switches every couple of minutes and doesn't really have any idea what they're doing. Uh, do you know how much this costs for Poke Ultra? The version that has the human assistance part?

• 1:05:18David Imel?

  I assume it's a subscription.

• 1:05:19Andrew Manganelli?

  Yes. Take, I mean, it's right there on the page, but take a guess, monthly.

• 1:05:24David Imel?

  Oh, I haven't looked. Um.

• 1:05:27David Imel?

  A few hundred?

• 1:05:29Andrew Manganelli?

  Two, $1.99 a month.

• 1:05:31David Imel?

  200 bucks a month.

• 1:05:33Speaker 04

  Also, you can get onto it and then go, "Human, human."

• 1:05:36Andrew Manganelli?

  Can you just say human? Type zero?

• 1:05:38Speaker 04

  Human, talk to a human. Talk to a human.

• 1:05:41David Imel?

  Basically just.

• 1:05:42Andrew Manganelli?

  Speak to a technician.

• 1:05:42David Imel?

  Asking for a personal assistant, basically.

• 1:05:45Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, but assuming, just like the Virtu Concierge, presumably one that really doesn't want to do any of the things.

• 1:05:54David Imel?

  Of course.

• 1:05:55Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah. In the hype video, they were doing things like, uh, can you ask David if he wants to go to a restaurant in San Francisco and what his preferences would be, or like, what is dollar amount? Well, like, stuff like that.

• 1:06:07David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:07Andrew Manganelli?

  Which feels so hard to send to another human that's potentially, I mean, they're at a call center, no matter what, whether it's in the US, whether it's in another country.

• 1:06:15David Imel?

  A type center.

• 1:06:16Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, like, a type center. It's true. Yeah, let's make this slower. Let's make customer service slower.

• 1:06:22David Imel?

  Sounds, yeah.

• 1:06:23Andrew Manganelli?

  I just.

• 1:06:25David Imel?

  I thought the whole point.

• 1:06:25Andrew Manganelli?

  This is confusing, right?

• 1:06:27David Imel?

  I want to try to explain this product to you because I did, I did use it for like a day.

• 1:06:32Andrew Manganelli?

  Poke or Poke Human?

• 1:06:33David Imel?

  Poke. I did not use the human version.

• 1:06:35Andrew Manganelli?

  Okay.

• 1:06:36David Imel?

  Yeah. So Poke is an AI assistant app that lives inside of iMessage, also can live inside of WhatsApp, Telegram, etc. The whole shtick of it is that it gets access to all your information, so it knows like pretty much everything about you. And it's very sarcastic, it kind of ribs you. And instead of you having to go to it and ask it questions, it'll just text you periodically throughout the day to like, remind you to do stuff, or like, ask you little questions, stuff like that. It was, it kind of launched in the same era as like, the friend.

• 1:07:07Andrew Manganelli?

  I was gonna say, this sounds like the friend.

• 1:07:08David Imel?

  Which, again, I don't know whatever happened to that. Who knows? They spent a million dollars on the URL. Anyway, so, that's been out for quite a long time. Famously, when you set it up, you actually have to negotiate, you negotiate with the AI to try to set your monthly price. So it tries to set it at like, a certain monthly price. And then you go, I'm not paying that. And it goes, okay, how about this? Okay, how about this? And you just argue with it forever? Yeah, it's very weird. A lot of people got it to like, 99 cents, some people got it for free. I argued with it for like, an hour to try to get it for free, and then I uninstalled it.

• 1:07:43Speaker 04

  Let's, so you have to haggle with your AI?

• 1:07:46David Imel?

  You haggle with the AI. Yeah, with the human one, it's not that way, I assume.

• 1:07:50Speaker 04

  So I should just get my AI to haggle with it forever?

• 1:07:52David Imel?

  That's true, just get Claude to haggle.

• 1:07:54Speaker 04

  And they'll haggle with each other. I'll get two Poke instances, and they'll both get each other down to free.

• 1:07:59Andrew Manganelli?

  Does, anyone remember Smarter Child on AIM? The bot you would message?

• 1:08:03David Imel?

  No.

• 1:08:04Andrew Manganelli?

  And it like, responded back to you?

• 1:08:06David Imel?

  Smarter Child?

• 1:08:06Andrew Manganelli?

  It was called Smarter Child, but like, as a kid, you would be like, I mean, the typical AIM, "Hey, sup, NMU." And then you would just be like, "Fuck you, Smarter Child." And then it would just be like, it's not saying anything, you'd be like, "That was fun." And that's all you would do? That's what this Poke sounds like. Like, this is an AI that you can just rib at?

• 1:08:24David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:25Andrew Manganelli?

  And maybe screw around with it, and be like, "I'm deleting this."

• 1:08:28David Imel?

  The, one positive thing I will say about it is that, for the like, day that I was using it, it was kind of like, scarily accurate about things about my life that it was bringing up. You know, where with like, Gemini, you'll tell it like, one thing once, and then it will just fixate on that, you know? Like, like- How the Fitbit Air just fixates on the burrito that I ate that one time.

• 1:08:48Speaker 03

  How did it know things about you, though? If it's just your messaging.

• 1:08:50David Imel?

  It plugs into your Gmail. Like, you give it access to your Google accounts.

• 1:08:54Speaker 03

  Oh, OK.

• 1:08:55David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:55Speaker 03

  So you have to plug into everything.

• 1:08:57David Imel?

  Yeah, you have to give it all the information.

• 1:08:58Andrew Manganelli?

  So now, when it goes to a human.

• 1:09:00David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:01Andrew Manganelli?

  Humans can't scan through an entire Gmail account in milliseconds like an AI can. So I guess it's being a little more targeted and getting the information, but it seems like it's going to slow down significantly and also human get a bunch of information.

• 1:09:15David Imel?

  Well, what I would guess is that the human, yeah, the human element is because they trying to make it like a pure personal assistant concierge. And so for certain digital tasks that the AI can handle for you, the AI will do that. But then there's things like, I don't know, booking flights that maybe they don't have access to yet. And so they want it to be able to eventually do everything. It's kind of crazy that it's 200 a month, but that's how much humans cost at a minimum.

• 1:09:41Andrew Manganelli?

  I guess so.

• 1:09:42David Imel?

  So.

• 1:09:42Andrew Manganelli?

  This also seems, it feels like.

• 1:09:45David Imel?

  You know how there's like digital wellbeing tools in your phone to help you use your phone less?

• 1:09:48Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:48David Imel?

  Feels like the opposite of that, kind of? Like, you're just texting it all the time, basically? Yeah. Yeah, that's true. But it's almost like you're talking to a person because it uses a lot of slang and it uses a lot of.

• 1:09:59Andrew Manganelli?

  It doesn't use a lot of capitalization?

• 1:10:01David Imel?

  No, it uses like no capitalization.

• 1:10:03Andrew Manganelli?

  That's cool, man.

• 1:10:04David Imel?

  It's trying to be very zoomer, very zoomer.

• 1:10:07Andrew Manganelli?

  All right.

• 1:10:07David Imel?

  Yeah, I don't know. Uh, I feel like we're just going back to actual intelligence again, so who knows? Just, I guess, just get a personal assistant.

• 1:10:15Andrew Manganelli?

  I.

• 1:10:15David Imel?

  I don't want AI, I want I. Just intelligence.

• 1:10:18Andrew Manganelli?

  OK, I'll go with my second one. This has been out for a little while, but I feel like I've not included it in the podcast because it just felt like I was going to make fun of it. But that's kind of the section right now. Taste Labs, did you see this?

• 1:10:30David Imel?

  I saw this.

• 1:10:31Andrew Manganelli?

  OK, a new data and infrastructure layer to give AI models and agents taste. Sorry.

• 1:10:37Speaker 01

  I, no, it's perfect. I saw this whole huge tweet and this 90 second video. When you got to the end of that sentence, that's when I left.

• 1:10:46David Imel?

  I saw the first sentence of "we're building the data and infrastructure layer to give AI models and agents taste," and then I closed the tab.

• 1:10:53Andrew Manganelli?

  That's

• 1:10:54David Imel?

  But go on.

• 1:10:55Andrew Manganelli?

  That's probably what I should have done instead. I got really angry. Their CEO tweeted, "They're on a mission to end AI slop," which feels like the most tone deaf stupid thing I've probably ever heard of. It actually sounded like a company else would make up for one of our trivia questions. Unfortunately, it is real. What? So this is what I'm confused about. What are they talking about? Because in the world of AI slop, it's because stock go up. It's just like we are funneling everything into AI so that it can create the things that it sees all the time. Taste is something that like people have because they're genuinely creating their

• 1:11:40Andrew Manganelli?

  own thing. So is this just going to be a curated amount of stuff the model is getting fed into?

• 1:11:46David Imel?

  Probably.

• 1:11:46Andrew Manganelli?

  Therefore then, just turning that curated stuff into the same thing thousands of times over, destroying the quote "taste" from the thing they curated?

• 1:11:56David Imel?

  I'm gonna play minor devil's advocate, but then also play angel's advocate again.

• 1:12:00Andrew Manganelli?

  Nice.

• 1:12:03David Imel?

  Usually AI design is really bad. It's bad and it's all the same. And there's kind of this like AI website look now where everything has these rounded corners with these certain gradients. And like eventually, when you get the net average of everything, it kind of just ends up like that. And it's pretty lame.

• 1:12:19Andrew Manganelli?

  It's happening, sorry, with that YouTube thumbnails in smaller niche communities. Right now, I think the tell is slightly dark white, slightly dark background, white and yellow text that has like brushstrokes and this like slight black grunge tint and black outline.

• 1:12:36David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:36Andrew Manganelli?

  In the disc golf world, there's a bunch of them right now. You can tell they're using the exact same program because all the thumbnails look exactly the same.

• 1:12:42David Imel?

  Yeah, for sure. So I can see where they came up with this idea because they were like, well, AI has terrible taste, so we have to make things look better. Angels advocate for the problematic part of this is that the way that design works and the way that everything works is that everything works on a pendulum cycle. So if the average of everything becomes really good, eventually that starts to look dry and bland and like old. And so then people start using ugly stuff again and that becomes hip. So everything's like this pendulum. And so if their company is just based around, okay, we want to make AI design look better now, that'll work for a little bit, but eventually it's probably gonna start looking old and drab.

• 1:13:25Andrew Manganelli?

  If, if they're successful, the quicker they turn the, the more niche tasteful design into the slop.

• 1:13:34David Imel?

  For sure.

• 1:13:34Andrew Manganelli?

  So it's just like, we're not ending AI slop, we're just making different. This is AI slop with a little garnish on top of it for a little while and then the garnish gets all willdy.

• 1:13:44David Imel?

  Exactly.

• 1:13:44Andrew Manganelli?

  It's, yeah, it's, it's stupid. It also almost feels like they're straight up saying like, we want to make sure we're ripping off the best designers out there and stealing their stuff and definitely not paying them for it.

• 1:13:55David Imel?

  I mean, yeah.

• 1:13:56Speaker 01

  The other thing about taste is.

• 1:13:58Andrew Manganelli?

  It's subjective?

• 1:13:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's subjective and the AI is inherently based off of someone else's taste and work. So it doesn't, yeah.

• 1:14:08David Imel?

  Well, it's kind of like how everyone was using the Chobani font, you know? We talked about this a little bit.

• 1:14:13Speaker 01

  The yogurt font?

• 1:14:14David Imel?

  Yeah, the yogurt font. Like, everyone has been using the Chobani yogurt font for the last like year or so because it's sort of like, it's sort of like New York Times, like really high quality. And now every single brand is using that. And so it's like, yeah, it looks good for now, but I think that pretty soon.

• 1:14:32Andrew Manganelli?

  It's a good ass font, not gonna lie.

• 1:14:34David Imel?

  It's a great font. No, it's a great font. I think there's a reason everyone has been using it. But, yeah, anyway, it's gonna get, it's gonna get long in the tooth pretty soon.

• 1:14:44Speaker 01

  Did they make this font? Did the yogurt company make this font? Or did they cook? Chobani Serif, did they make this?

• 1:14:50David Imel?

  Chobani Serif.

• 1:14:51Andrew Manganelli?

  Is this better than their own product? This is kind of sick.

• 1:14:54David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:54Andrew Manganelli?

  Shout out to Chobani. We need Tim to use this on the thumbnail this week.

• 1:14:58Speaker 01

  It is called Chobani Serif.

• 1:15:01David Imel?

  I mean, hey, they cooked. They cooked. But everyone's using it. I swear to God, everyone's using it.

• 1:15:05Speaker 04

  No idea. It does look familiar.

• 1:15:06David Imel?

  Yeah. And then there's the newsprint stuff, like Anthropic's logo is very newsprint, it's very New York Times, Gothic. Anyway.

• 1:15:14Speaker 04

  But they all have like very slightly rounded corners.

• 1:15:16David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:17Speaker 04

  All of the new serif fonts are all soft.

• 1:15:20David Imel?

  Because all of these new AI companies need to feel more human, you know?

• 1:15:24Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:25David Imel?

  That's the reason they're doing it. They want to feel

• 1:15:28Andrew Manganelli?

  That's the problem.

• 1:15:28David Imel?

  relatable like yogurt, you know what I mean?

• 1:15:30Andrew Manganelli?

  I don't want my AI to feel more human. I want it to just do the small, like

• 1:15:34David Imel?

  Yeah, but they want people to feel like their AI is more human.

• 1:15:38Speaker 04

  I'm just not the person for this. Do you know the best way to feel like a human?

• 1:15:41David Imel?

  Being a human.

• 1:15:41Andrew Manganelli?

  Breathe.

• 1:15:43Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:15:43David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:44Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:15:44David Imel?

  Yeah. That's true.

• 1:15:46Andrew Manganelli?

  We did it.

• 1:15:47David Imel?

  We did it, Joe.

• 1:15:48Andrew Manganelli?

  Okay, I don't want to go any further.

• 1:15:49David Imel?

  Okay.

• 1:15:49Andrew Manganelli?

  It's just gonna be hate.

• 1:15:52Speaker 04

  That sounds like a good time.

• 1:15:53Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm just confused by these things. And I'm not surprised that I'm confused with them, but that just seemed wild.

• 1:15:58David Imel?

  I think we're in the state, I mean, we've been in the stage of the AI boom where like everyone is still trying to find a unique idea. And even if it's not good, people are still gonna try it.

• 1:16:07Andrew Manganelli?

  This feels like

• 1:16:08David Imel?

  That's why you're confused.

• 1:16:09Andrew Manganelli?

  Taste Labs feels like the needle that is currently popping the AI. Like, this is like, we've reached to that point where she blowing, hopefully.

• 1:16:18David Imel?

  Every time you think you've reached the top, there's another mountain to climb.

• 1:16:21Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:23David Imel?

  All right, well.

• 1:16:24Andrew Manganelli?

  What's trivia?

• 1:16:25David Imel?

  I think we should trivia.

• 1:16:29Speaker 04

  Okay. Okay, here we go.

• 1:16:32Andrew Manganelli?

  Question one.

• 1:16:34Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:16:35Andrew Manganelli?

  I have in front of me a webpage. On that webpage is a maxed out MacBook Pro from apple.com. How much does it cost?

• 1:16:50Andrew Manganelli?

  It's one of the things where I'm worried I'm gonna be like so drastically low, it looks like I have no idea what I'm talking about. It's a 16 inch with nano texture display, M5 Max chip, 18 core CPU, 40 core GPU, 128 gigabytes of unified memory, 8 terabyte SSD, 140 watt USB-C charger.

• 1:17:10David Imel?

  I hope, I heard, I heard they upped the price of the nano texture because it uses so much RAM.

• 1:17:16David Imel?

  Nice. Just kidding. They didn't actually do that. I don't know that to be true. I actually don't know it to be true, because I didn't look.

• 1:17:21Speaker 03

  All right. Flip him and read. What do you got?

• 1:17:25David Imel?

  He has an old math equation.

• 1:17:26Speaker 01

  I tried. Uh, I can break mine down, since I showed my work.

• 1:17:30Speaker 03

  Go for it.

• 1:17:31Speaker 01

  So I have the 16-inch M5 Max MacBook Pro, starting at $3,000. I think the Nano Texture adds 150 bucks. I think the 128 gigs of memory adds 2,500 bucks. That one I'm not so sure about. And then I think the 8 terabyte, because I think it starts at 2. So you go from 2 to 4 to 8. So that's $4,000 more for that. So I ended up at $9,550.

• 1:17:55Speaker 03

  All right, Andrew.

• 1:17:56Andrew Manganelli?

  I'll break mine down. I put a 8, and then a 5, and then 2 zeros for $8,500.

• 1:18:02Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:18:03Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:18:04David Imel?

  My logic was that it's probably worse than I think, so I put $12,000.

• 1:18:09Speaker 03

  The closest is...

• 1:18:11David Imel?

  Marquez. David.

• 1:18:14Speaker 03

  Marquez.

• 1:18:16Speaker 03

  Marquez gets the point.

• 1:18:17Speaker 01

  What was it actually?

• 1:18:18Speaker 03

  $10,149.

• 1:18:20David Imel?

  I almost said $10,000.

• 1:18:22Speaker 03

  So with that, Marquez, you now have 32 points. Andrew with 27, and David with 32.

• 1:18:27David Imel?

  No!

• 1:18:28Speaker 03

  Tied up!

• 1:18:28David Imel?

  No!

• 1:18:29Speaker 01

  My age.

• 1:18:30David Imel?

  No!

• 1:18:30Speaker 01

  That's wild.

• 1:18:32David Imel?

  Uh-oh.

• 1:18:32Speaker 01

  Okay, that's great.

• 1:18:33David Imel?

  Oh. You know, sometimes people stop me on the street and say, "Good job with trivia. You're killing it." I feel like they're gonna stop now.

• 1:18:41Speaker 01

  Now they're gonna stop me on the street.

• 1:18:43Speaker 03

  Really?

• 1:18:43David Imel?

  It's like, "Good job cashing up to David."

• 1:18:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's exciting.

• 1:18:46Speaker 03

  Apple, the company that has always overcharged for RAM, is now charging even more for RAM. But what Apple offering has increased its price over 2.5 times since its launch in 2019?

• 1:19:01David Imel?

  You know, Marquez may have been tied with me for a brief moment.

• 1:19:07Speaker 03

  I'll give you a hint. This is an Ellis question.

• 1:19:11Speaker 03

  Keep that in mind.

• 1:19:12David Imel?

  Hmm.

• 1:19:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was gonna say that.

• 1:19:15David Imel?

  This was probably like...

• 1:19:16Speaker 01

  Exactly my thought.

• 1:19:16David Imel?

  Apple VHS.

• 1:19:21Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh.

• 1:19:22David Imel?

  I tried to write this in the Chobani font.

• 1:19:28David Imel?

  We've.

• 1:19:28Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, okay.

• 1:19:31Speaker 01

  Andrew and I both said AirPods. I don't know if you're thinking the same thing I was thinking.

• 1:19:35David Imel?

  Nope.

• 1:19:36Andrew Manganelli?

  But we're both not AirPods.

• 1:19:37Speaker 01

  I was thinking like the base AirPods.

• 1:19:39Andrew Manganelli?

  That's what I was thinking, the base ones.

• 1:19:40David Imel?

  Which AirPods specifically, Andrew? It's almost like you could have just written Sony.

• 1:19:44Andrew Manganelli?

  AirPods are the name of a model.

• 1:19:48David Imel?

  They're AirPods 3.

• 1:19:50Andrew Manganelli?

  Well, the AirPods lineup, 1, 2, 3.

• 1:19:52David Imel?

  Yeah, like Sony, you know?

• 1:19:53Andrew Manganelli?

  No, Experio 1, 2, 3. It's literally, you're proving my point that I stopped arguing.

• 1:20:00Speaker 01

  Whatever, whatever.

• 1:20:02Speaker 04

  David, you wrote, I'm not salty. I wrote Apple 1. Apple 1, which is not correct, but is sort of a little bit correct.

• 1:20:14Andrew Manganelli?

  Without going over it?

• 1:20:15Speaker 04

  The answer is Apple TV Plus.

• 1:20:17Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:20:18Speaker 04

  Oh. Which has, it launched at $4.99 and is $12.99 now.

• 1:20:24Speaker 01

  All right. Well, in case anyone was wondering, it is about 80 degrees in here now. It was not at the beginning of the pod, but that's okay, because we survived. And just like that, we've created another episode for your regularly skilled programming. Very exciting. If you made it this far in the pod and you already left a comment wishing Ellis a happy birthday.

• 1:20:44Andrew Manganelli?

  Take it away. Delete it.

• 1:20:46David Imel?

  Delete it.

• 1:20:46Speaker 01

  Edit your comment.

• 1:20:49Speaker 01

  And say happy 32nd birthday specifically to Ellis.

• 1:20:54Andrew Manganelli?

  And let's go.

• 1:20:54Speaker 04

  It's not his 32nd.

• 1:20:56Speaker 01

  Definitely not his 32nd, but it'll make sense.

• 1:20:59David Imel?

  Yeah, call him Unc. Say happy birthday, Unc.

• 1:21:02Speaker 01

  Yeah. Anyway, thanks for watching. Thank you for listening and specifically for subscribing, which means we'll catch you guys next week. Peace.

• 1:21:09David Imel?

  Bye.

• 1:21:11Andrew Manganelli?

  Our firm is produced by Adam Alina and Rufus Mulhaupt. We are partnered with Vox Media Podcast Network and our traction music was created by Vain still.

• 1:21:17Speaker 01

  Bingo.

• 1:21:18David Imel?

  Let's go.

• 1:21:27David Imel?

  Wow, I'm on a roll with trivia. That's exciting.

• 1:21:30Andrew Manganelli?

  Aye.

• 1:21:31David Imel?

  That's so exciting.

• 1:21:32Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm on a generational collapse.