It’s Time to Check Back into ‘The White Lotus’

Chris and Andy break down the Season 3 premiere of ‘The White Lotus.’ They talk about what the central mystery will be for this season, Mike White’s specific talent for casting this show, and who on the cast they’re most excited to watch this season. Hosts: Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald Senior Producer: Kaya McMullen Video Production: Chris Thomas and Stefano Sanchez Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Hi, everyone. It's Amy Poehler, and I'm launching a new podcast called Good Hang. In preparation for that, I asked some of my friends to send in some videos and give me some advice.

• 0:11Speaker 01

  Just be yourself, and the guests will come.

• 0:13Speaker 02

  Just, if you're gonna do this, really do it. Commit to it. Don't be the celebrity that this is their, like, sixth thing they're doing. Have a good podcast. Keep your approval rating.

• 0:22Speaker 03

  I hear you got a new gig, girl. This is fabulous. So glad you're working. Is there a part for me?

• 0:28Speaker 04

  I love true crime and cooking podcasts. Is there any way you could combine the two? So you're doing a podcast, huh? That is awesome. Would you happen to know my blood type? I gotta put it down on this form. Hey, I got an email from my agent saying I need to record a video for you for charity,

• 0:47Speaker 00

  but then I clicked the link, and it took me to a GoFundMe page, so I kinda have a bad feeling about this. Well, everyone has an opinion and a podcast. So, join me for Good Hang. It's rough out there. We're just trying to lighten it up a little.

• 1:11Speaker 05

  I need support staff to clear the room. Stand up and walk. Now.

• 1:16Chris Ryan?

  Hello, and welcome to The Watch. My name is Chris Ryan. I am an editor at theringer.com. And joining me here in the Hotel California, it's Andy Greenwald. Feels really good to be here, talking to you about a new season of The White Lotus. And it feels particularly appropriate that we are doing it as our third podcast of the morning in a studio that currently has the humidity levels of Phuket, Thailand. It's great to see you. We've been hanging out for a while, but we wanted to make sure we did our first episode recap of White Lotus. Before we get into the nitty-gritty of it, how do you feel about being back, man? I thought you were gonna make a housekeeping joke. Well, housekeeping, I will say, housekeeping, uh, obviously, you can watch us on Ringer-TV.

• 2:00Chris Ryan?

  You can listen to us on Spotify. You can watch us on Spotify. You can follow us on Instagram at the Watch Pod underscore, and you can hit us up with emails at [email protected]. You can also listen to Bill Mall and Joe recap this episode of White Lotus on the Prestige TV podcast. And I'm sure that's gonna be awesome. We're gonna take a little bit of a wider angle here to discuss the return of this show, this unlikely blockbuster, I would say. And Thai politics.

• 2:28Andy Greenwald?

  Were you not prepared to do that? We should also say that we are recording this early, so if any other news happened, cultural news happened over the weekend, right?

• 2:35Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, right.

• 2:36Andy Greenwald?

  We're not covering it. We will talk about SNL 50 at some point, but we haven't seen it at the time of recording this podcast.

• 2:41Chris Ryan?

  We talked, we obviously did that whole podcast about our favorite performers and our feelings about the show. Greenwald, as this episode began, I did think about like, what an unlikely success story this is in some ways.

• 2:56Chris Ryan?

  In some ways, like, yes, obviously, it sort of leans into certain mystery box elements, not in the sort of paradise or, you know, Severance ways, but there is a mystery usually in each season of who's in the coffin, what's the crime. This season opens with probably the most sort of breathtaking crime. It's obviously implied that there's a mass shooting going on at the resort.

• 3:21Andy Greenwald?

  We were right in the middle of it.

• 3:22Chris Ryan?

  Yes, and that is sort of, I think gives it a little bit of a different tone, and I think tonally this season felt a bit different to me, a little less fun-loving, or not even fun-loving, a little less comic.

• 3:35Andy Greenwald?

  I agree with this.

• 3:37Chris Ryan?

  But at the same time, very interesting to see that this is the third season of White Lotus and that there are just things that Mike White is gonna do visually, things that he is gonna do in terms of like, this is exactly how these people are gonna be introduced to us each time. And this is no way a criticism, it was almost like, you can almost take the first episode off, not watch it, but your brain can kind of be functioning at a little bit of a lower frequency because there are these familiar dances that these new dancers are doing the steps to.

• 4:08Andy Greenwald?

  There's a familiar rhythm to it, and this is the checking in episode, and we can take our time checking in and spending time with people individually, and even, you know, the show beautifully and brilliantly staggers their arrival off of the boat, so we get a moment to introduce each grouping and sort of understand the stakes and the interpersonal relationships before moving forward and cross-pollinating. What you're saying about unlikely is really worth a little bit more of a dive into because...

• 4:37Andy Greenwald?

  You know, I talk a lot on the show about how the entire industry behind the scenes has spent the last year, year and a half, two years desperately scrabbling to future-proof itself.

• 4:49Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 4:49Andy Greenwald?

  What can we as an industry do to just make stuff people like, to do to make stuff that feels familiar, to keep whatever precarious hold we have on people's attention as it is increasingly competed with by literally everything else in the history of time? And, you know, so that's why we get shows that we love, like The Pit, which are doing their best to be like, hey, we're doing ER again, kind of, but legally, we're not allowed to say that. Why, you know, I keep making this joke, but it stays relevant. The Jack Donaghy on 30 Rock line about making it 1997 again by science or magic is actually the walking orders for a number, a worrying number of development executives.

• 5:32Andy Greenwald?

  All of this is to say, the fact that Mike White stumbled into making the absolute ideal procedural show for the prestige era, it just makes it more remarkable. So historically, the reason we have this show is because during the pandemic, Casey Blaise at HBO was casting around desperately for something that he could put into production.

• 5:54Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 5:54Andy Greenwald?

  What can we make?

• 5:56Chris Ryan?

  Somehow passed on my idea for a Secret Service agent in a cavern in a mountain, leading a new society after an apocalypse.

• 6:04Andy Greenwald?

  That was odd. I will say whoever, whatever email address you sent your other idea about a Philadelphia crime task force stealing drug money, that email has been compromised. That leaked or was hacked because it's seeds spread across town. So in looking for something to do, he reached out to Mike White, who had a, you know, Has had already at that point had a successful career and was very well regarded internally within the town, but hadn't had like a massive forward phasing hit other than like School of Rock, I guess.

• 6:39Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 6:40Andy Greenwald?

  And certainly not on TV.

• 6:41Chris Ryan?

  Well, in fact, I think Mike White had been an example of someone who had really struggled to find a consistent like footing in Hollywood where, you know, he had had the, he enlightened had been like his baby.

• 6:52Andy Greenwald?

  And was beloved, but did not.

• 6:55Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, but more of a cult hit.

• 6:56Andy Greenwald?

  More of a cult hit, exactly. But one thing that Casey knew about Mike was that he can write very quickly.

• 7:02Chris Ryan?

  And has his own industry in a lot of places.

• 7:05Andy Greenwald?

  Right, he writes and directs and can basically, you know, cut down on overhead. He will make something himself. And so the mandate was can you make something within these parameters? And sometimes even the most wildly creative people do best when they have guardrails. And it was like, I always wanted to do something at a hotel and incredible to believe, but the Four Seasons Maui wasn't, wasn't doing so great that summer of 2020. And, and here we are. And so they kind of backdoored their way into something that is truly remarkable. It is auteurish. Mike White writes and directs every episode, but it is dependable. The only reason we had this long gap between seasons is because of the strike. It is formulaic in that there is a absolute formula to it.

• 7:48Andy Greenwald?

  And the star of the show, season to season, is, well, you could say it's a resort, or you could say it's the idea of luxury.

• 7:55Chris Ryan?

  Or the thematic, whatever the distinct thematic ideas of the season itself are. I mean, I think that was a little bit more clear in the first season than the second season, maybe?

• 8:06Andy Greenwald?

  Maybe, I see where you're going for.

• 8:08Chris Ryan?

  Um, but I, I find it to be such a great bucket for him to work with. And what I mean by that is like, we've talked before about this idea that certain showrunners, creators, they'll find a sturdy enough frame to build any kind of house. And in fact, sometimes they'll be like, I'm just going to do an addition here because what I like is this idea about gambling, or I like this idea about, you know, cheating, or I like this idea about crime or whatever. And I thought always. Regardless of whether or not you thought it was great throughout its run, or bad, or whatever, Billions is a good example of this. I brought it up before where it just was obvious that

• 8:49Chris Ryan?

  Copland and Levine were like, we can get anything into Billions. Like, anything that we're interested in, sports.

• 8:55Andy Greenwald?

  It's a load-bearing vessel.

• 8:56Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, and it's like, these guys, money has its hands in everything. So through Axe Capital, we can touch on all these different topics, and it keeps the show itself interesting. Mike White has both the ability to do that, and also to refresh his cast every year, although it's notable that there is a returning character from the first season back in.

• 9:18Andy Greenwald?

  Jurek Rym.

• 9:18Chris Ryan?

  Right, there's two of them.

• 9:19Andy Greenwald?

  But we're not gonna get to that yet.

• 9:21Chris Ryan?

  I wanted to ask you a little bit about, we wouldn't be The Watch if we weren't like, is there anything about White Lotus that you're like, concerned trolling? Like, even after one episode of third season?

• 9:33Andy Greenwald?

  Absolutely not.

• 9:34Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 9:35Andy Greenwald?

  I am more in than I've ever been. Partly was, I thought the first episode of the season was excellent. I also thought it was excellent, kind of in the same way that I'm really enjoying the sturdy frame of the pit.

• 9:50Chris Ryan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 9:50Andy Greenwald?

  I was like, I know where I am right away, and you know you're on to something good when essentially you're not even on the journey yet, you're just revving the engine, but the sound of the engine is really comforting and also exciting.

• 10:04Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 10:06Andy Greenwald?

  I love that. I also feel like Mike White himself is now kind of believing in the sturdiness of this frame. I mean, nobody thought the first season was going to be as successful as it was, and I'm sure it took some convincing to be like, you could do this again, and do you have the ideas for it? Do you have the... It seems like he is gaining strength and confidence as the show moves forward. And so, the things that he is excellent at, which are wide-ranging but also very specific. He is god-tier in terms of casting, seeing what is within performers, even performers we know, and writing to those things so that they can be at their best.

• 10:45Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 10:46Andy Greenwald?

  He is incredible at a shorthand of...

• 10:52Andy Greenwald?

  Emotional shorthand, basically, like introducing us to a lot of, a wide world with a lot of specifics, but doing it with like a minimum of brushstrokes.

• 11:01Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 11:01Andy Greenwald?

  We instantly know a lot of these people and we understand both the specificity of their inter- interactions and their relations, but also the general meaning of it in terms of relatability for humanity.

• 11:14Chris Ryan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 11:16Andy Greenwald?

  He also is very funny and very campy and is able to almost always, with some, you know, with some exceptions even within the show, I think to my taste, find the line between, between drama and melodrama.

• 11:32Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 11:32Andy Greenwald?

  When, when he does that.

• 11:35Andy Greenwald?

  And as a director, he's a very like humanistic and like actor-friendly director that is also quite taken with location. And there's a version of American director goes to Thailand to film Thailand and Thailand's culture that is a little bit appropriaty.

• 11:54Chris Ryan?

  Sure.

• 11:54Andy Greenwald?

  And then there's the version of it where the purpose of your show is American tourists coming to a curated, artificial version of this country and luxury and filmed accordingly. Do you know what I mean? So it, it, it steers into itself in a way that is, allows him to have like, oh, there's monkeys everywhere, but also like, oh shit, there's monkeys everywhere.

• 12:16Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, I thought, I mean, just like, you know, and we'll, we'll start to get into the, the, the episode in a second, but just the level of care that he puts into it, there's a version of the show that is much more cookie cutter and that is much more turnkey and doesn't pay attention to the difference in what it would be like to arrive from the States and Italy versus what it's like to arrive in, in Thailand. And I've actually never been to Asia, so I'm not speaking from experience, but just the idea of the extremity of the jet lag, the extremity of the weather, the humidity, the conditions, like the wildlife, all that stuff that just immediately like he's got an eye for all of it. Obviously he's doing location shooting. He had this cast in Thailand for months. It was essentially like they, one of the things that's really cool about this show is that the cast essentially is living.

• 13:01Chris Ryan?

  Out a version of what their characters are experiencing by this dislocation of being in a foreign country, but also living in and around this resort and shooting in this resort. And that I can't, I think they can't help but start to like have a degree of authenticity to these performances that are, that are sort of driven by that.

• 13:18Andy Greenwald?

  Does it help or hurt my standing on this podcast if I say that I I've written, I've not only been to Phuket, I've written Grantland blog posts from Phuket.

• 13:27Chris Ryan?

  Do you remember what you wrote?

• 13:29Andy Greenwald?

  There was some, I don't know if it was like a, like a, like a everyone contributes kind of piece.

• 13:35Chris Ryan?

  Did you feel like Bill was not respecting your work life balance when you were in Phuket?

• 13:38Andy Greenwald?

  Well, it's a complicated thing because did I tell Bill that I was in Phuket when he asked me to contribute to something? No. Was this year one of Grantland, like five months in? So I didn't really feel like I had the, the, the leverage.

• 13:51Chris Ryan?

  P S Bill, I got a little vacation planned.

• 13:54Andy Greenwald?

  But the sound of, and it's the show so brilliant at doing this, the sound of the humidity and the birds in the trees and that feeling of, of, of, of warmth.

• 14:04Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 14:04Andy Greenwald?

  Jungle, jungly warmth did make me think of explaining why Terriers was underrated and should have gotten a second season on FX.

• 14:12Chris Ryan?

  Would you go back to Thailand or you're a Thai guy?

• 14:14Andy Greenwald?

  I would, I, I, what do they say? Uh, L B H, losers back home. I may, I might, might have no other place to go.

• 14:22Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 14:23Andy Greenwald?

  I'll say that, you know, again, this, this, this is like, kind of, you know, kind of hackneyed, like ball scribe journalism. But I did go, as you said, I did, maybe this is on the other podcast, you said this, I went to the, the premiere here and I watched the show with our rival podcaster Mallory. It was lovely time together.

• 14:40Chris Ryan?

  There's no rivalries at the Ringer.

• 14:41Andy Greenwald?

  No, but I, apparently between us and Ringer verse, there is.

• 14:44Chris Ryan?

  Is there?

• 14:44Andy Greenwald?

  It's because of Manzoukas.

• 14:45Chris Ryan?

  Oh, yeah. Well, I can't, I can't speak to his, his integrity.

• 14:49Andy Greenwald?

  Fair, fair.

• 14:50Chris Ryan?

  His honor.

• 14:51Andy Greenwald?

  And, uh, and Mike White was obviously in attendance and he introduced the screening. And it's very, very funny to see a guy who is so eloquent on the page and his, his performed life thing is that he's very like, I'm sorry.

• 15:06Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 15:08Andy Greenwald?

  I guess people who've seen him on Survivor know that.

• 15:10Chris Ryan?

  I have. It's funny because it's like on one hand, he's like a ball of nerves. And on the other hand, there's like something.

• 15:16Andy Greenwald?

  Yes.

• 15:16Chris Ryan?

  There's a machine turning over in his mind all the time. So it's.

• 15:19Andy Greenwald?

  I think the thing that stood out for me is you go to one locker room and you're like, hey, everybody likes each other and respects each other. That might not be the whole story, but the but what was notable was how personal this experience is both for him and for everyone who was there. Because when he was name checking all the people who like saved his life, made the show possible, long list of Thai crew, some of whom who were there, they're doing a second premiere in Bangkok. But when he was like going through the cast list and through the through the crew and like the people who've worked with him forever, there were these shouts and screams in the crowd. And it really did feel personal and bespoke. And that may be the best case scenario for the kind of discredited or tourist model of television. Or just a point to what you were saying, which is this is unique because everybody

• 16:04Andy Greenwald?

  is equally far away.

• 16:06Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 16:06Andy Greenwald?

  And that that imbues something different in the in the production.

• 16:09Chris Ryan?

  Before we get into the episode, I will just say this is a quote unquote supersized season of White Lotus.

• 16:16Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, is it?

• 16:16Chris Ryan?

  I think it's slightly longer than previous seasons. I believe it's 10 episodes. I think that's interesting.

• 16:23Andy Greenwald?

  I think it's eight.

• 16:24Chris Ryan?

  Is it eight?

• 16:25Andy Greenwald?

  It seems to be eight, but maybe maybe not.

• 16:26Chris Ryan?

  OK, I thought it was longer, maybe nine.

• 16:28Andy Greenwald?

  Maybe there'll be bonus episodes.

• 16:30Chris Ryan?

  Outtakes.

• 16:32Andy Greenwald?

  I don't I don't know.

• 16:34Chris Ryan?

  OK, you're looking at the internet. Maybe I'm operating under a misassumption. I was only bringing that up in terms of pacing and in terms of the the sort of like how much ground they want to cover per hour, how much stuff they want to touch on with the mystery that they introduced in the first scene. But without further ado, let's get into our kind of like actual episode recap. But before we do, this White Lotus season three recap is brought to you by Coffee Mate. You know, one thing I really love about HBO's original series, The White Lotus, is that it really does a great job creating its own universe and drawing viewers into whichever location the season is set. I mean, I really do want to go to Thailand now or just a tropical vacation, you know, minus all the drama. But luckily, a sip to paradise is a quick.

• 17:18Chris Ryan?

  Drive away to the grocery store with Coffee Mate's new limited time flavors inspired by HBO's original series, The White Lotus, set in Thailand. There's two new flavors, Thai iced coffee and pina colada flavored creamers, and they are the perfect addition to your beverages while watching the show. And now to today's White Lotus recap. Now, as a recap, I thought I would just sort of touch on each of the groups of characters that we got introduced to because most of the episode is them arriving.

• 17:45Andy Greenwald?

  Yes.

• 17:45Chris Ryan?

  Is them checking into their rooms, deciding on their health missions that they're.

• 17:49Andy Greenwald?

  And you did say, though, previously, that the opening is a little bit of a break from tradition in that I think in past seasons, we had the discovery, either the reveal of a body being loaded onto a plane in season one, a body arriving on, washing up on the beach in season two, where we got a little bit of flavor of the characters we would soon get to know. This is the first one that kind of jumped us in in media res, right?

• 18:12Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 18:12Andy Greenwald?

  Something's going on and then we actually don't.

• 18:14Chris Ryan?

  We're seeing the crime rather than the result of the crime.

• 18:16Andy Greenwald?

  Yes, and we don't even know the scope of it.

• 18:18Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, it seems bad.

• 18:19Andy Greenwald?

  It doesn't seem great.

• 18:21Chris Ryan?

  That character that we see in the first scene, I think we can make a deduction.

• 18:27Andy Greenwald?

  I feel confident about this.

• 18:28Chris Ryan?

  That is Belinda's son, because Belinda is back from White Lotus season one. Natasha Rothwell, who sadly, her own series, How to Die Alone, was recently canceled. I hope it finds a new home because I really did enjoy it.

• 18:41Andy Greenwald?

  It was really good.

• 18:41Chris Ryan?

  And she is one of my favorite performers. She's back as Belinda, who people will remember from season one, is getting not scammed by Tanya, but kind of hung out to dry by Tanya.

• 18:51Andy Greenwald?

  Taken advantage of.

• 18:52Chris Ryan?

  Where Tanya was going to invest in her own spa, and they kind of used her as like a sounding board throughout that whole first season. And then the second she had a date, abandoned Belinda, and then decided to kind of squirrel off with her money. She was obviously going through a lot anyway. Suppose we can mention now, obviously, if you're listening to this, you've watched the episode, there is another character who appears from season one, and that is Greg, who was Tanya's date.

• 19:18Andy Greenwald?

  The one you're just referring to.

• 19:19Chris Ryan?

  In the first season, and is someone who was very elusive during the second season for most of it, and then turns out to have been the architect of her demise.

• 19:29Andy Greenwald?

  Yes.

• 19:30Chris Ryan?

  Uh, he's back. He's in Thailand. He's at another White Lotus Resort and he has a younger girlfriend.

• 19:35Andy Greenwald?

  He's not at the resort. He is living.

• 19:36Chris Ryan?

  He's living on the top of a hill above the resort, but they come down to the hotel for goods and services and for the, for food and stuff like that. But let's get into the other cast members that we meet.

• 19:46Andy Greenwald?

  Okay. Cause then I do want to talk about the Greg-ness of it all.

• 19:48Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, we'll get to Greg in a second, but, uh, Leslie Bibb, Carrie Coon and Michelle Monahan are my top three draft picks and they play Kate, Lori and Jacqueline respectively. They're three lifelong friends celebrating a victory tour, but you could also tell a backbiting Olympics. Like every time one of them leaves the room, they're going to be talking about the other.

• 20:07Andy Greenwald?

  Michelle Monahan's Jacqueline is a TV star.

• 20:10Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 20:10Andy Greenwald?

  And has bankrolled this extravagant girls' trip to celebrate their long friendship.

• 20:15Chris Ryan?

  Yes. And not seeing each other as much as they would like to in recent years.

• 20:19Andy Greenwald?

  Yes. And she and, uh, Leslie Bibb's character, whose name is what?

• 20:24Chris Ryan?

  Kate.

• 20:25Andy Greenwald?

  Uh, seem to be in a little bit of a tit for tat, like who's successful, who's looking, who's looking their best, who's having the better treatment.

• 20:32Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. I think Jacqueline's clearly the alpha, but Leslie Bibb is like, I live in Texas and I'm pretty rich.

• 20:36Andy Greenwald?

  Yes. And Carrie Coon, uh, as Lori is not.

• 20:39Chris Ryan?

  Yes. She lives in New York and is struggling in her professional life.

• 20:42Andy Greenwald?

  And has a, a terrible thirst for rosé.

• 20:44Chris Ryan?

  Yes. Well, whomst amongst us.

• 20:46Andy Greenwald?

  In that heat, every shot she's drinking.

• 20:50Chris Ryan?

  Walton Goggins and Amy Lou Wood play Rick and Piper, a couple with an age gap and an attitude gap.

• 20:56Andy Greenwald?

  Did you write that or you just?

• 20:58Chris Ryan?

  I, I wrote that.

• 20:59Andy Greenwald?

  That's really good.

• 20:59Chris Ryan?

  I see our original bar and she's sweet and he is not. Uh, she is a lovely young woman. Walton Goggins seems to, uh, his Rick character seems to be distracted by something at that hotel. Like he seems to be thinking about something else.

• 21:15Andy Greenwald?

  Are you, um, I'd never watched, is it Sex Education that Amy Lou Wood is on? I, I've not watched that show. Uh, so I'd never seen her before. She's awesome. She's a great, right out the gate.

• 21:27Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. She's fantastic. Um, I, I, their relationship in some ways, what's going on with Walton Goggins was a bigger mystery to me than the crime in the beginning.

• 21:37Andy Greenwald?

  Although it seemed pretty obvious to me after the first episode, but we can, we can get back to it.

• 21:41Chris Ryan?

  Um, Jason Isaacs, Parker Posey, Patrick Schwarzenegger and Sarah Catherine Hook play the Ratliff family.

• 21:47Andy Greenwald?

  Sam Nivola erasure will not stand.

• 21:49Chris Ryan?

  Sam Nivola, my bad.

• 21:50Andy Greenwald?

  Son.

• 21:51Chris Ryan?

  Emily Mortimer and Alessandra Nivola's son.

• 21:53Andy Greenwald?

  Son of my, my number one Emily Mortimer.

• 21:55Chris Ryan?

  It's funny that that family has two Nepos in it.

• 21:59Andy Greenwald?

  Yes.

• 21:59Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, like it kinda like the sort of works with the way that this family is constructed. It was like a sort of rich North Carolina family, I believe, of um.

• 22:08Andy Greenwald?

  Very much North Carolina.

• 22:09Chris Ryan?

  Very much North Carolina, like all the kids either go to Duke or UNC. Um, and there seems to be some financial stress on the mind.

• 22:18Andy Greenwald?

  It emerges.

• 22:19Chris Ryan?

  It emerges.

• 22:19Andy Greenwald?

  There's quite a bit.

• 22:20Chris Ryan?

  Of of Jason Isaacs' character. Can't really tell exactly what he does. It seems like he does.

• 22:25Andy Greenwald?

  Money.

• 22:26Chris Ryan?

  Private equity or something.

• 22:27Andy Greenwald?

  He does money like Ken does beach.

• 22:29Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, and then Natasha Rothwell as Belinda, the returning character. Uh, she's in Thailand to learn healing techniques from the staff at the White Lotus in Thailand and then take them back to Maui with her. I I wonder if there's a healthy rivalry between Maui and Thailand in terms of where people are more well.

• 22:48Andy Greenwald?

  Who gets who gets more well?

• 22:50Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 22:50Andy Greenwald?

  Hmm.

• 22:51Chris Ryan?

  And uh.

• 22:52Andy Greenwald?

  What about the staff?

• 22:53Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, I was gonna say, uh, Lysa Menaball is Mook, a health mentor who is working with primarily, uh, I think she's she's working with Rick and with Goggins' character.

• 23:05Andy Greenwald?

  At least at the start, and I know you know that that that she is also Lisa in Blackpink.

• 23:10Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 23:10Andy Greenwald?

  Um, Blackpink is often in your area. That's what they say at the beginning of the songs.

• 23:16Chris Ryan?

  Where's your K-pop knowledge at?

• 23:18Andy Greenwald?

  Blackpink.

• 23:18Chris Ryan?

  Okay. And then finally, we've got, uh, Tame, uh, Tem Ting Tong, uh, who is Gaetak, a security guard who has a thing for Mook.

• 23:27Andy Greenwald?

  Mm-hmm.

• 23:28Chris Ryan?

  Um.

• 23:29Andy Greenwald?

  And a motorbike.

• 23:29Chris Ryan?

  And a motorbike.

• 23:30Andy Greenwald?

  He's willing to use it.

• 23:30Chris Ryan?

  Yep. So that recap, such as it is, just of all the characters, uh, was brought to you by Coffee Mate. Coffee Mates, the White Lotus flavors are only available for a limited time, so go try them now and stream the HBO original series on Max. Greenwell, where do you want to start with those characters?

• 23:46Andy Greenwald?

  Um, well, I mean, I I kinda wanna just start. Globally or locally, and what I mean by that is, I loved being in Thailand with the show. I loved the vibes. I loved the very subtle details like the Thai language, um, superimposed beneath the subtitles for when the Thai characters were speaking. Uh, I just loved the sense of place and the sounds of the jungle and of the ocean, uh, and of the spa. Like, I just thought it was a very sensory experience, a wellness experience, if you will, just to be there, um, which was exciting. And, you know, and a, and a nice change from everything being shot in Atlanta, Vancouver, or Leavesden outside of London. That's awesome.

• 24:31Andy Greenwald?

  I will also say that I felt, prior to, um, Chelsea, Amy Lou, Amy Lou Wood's character going down to the bar, a, what I thought was like a pretty exciting focus and momentum in getting this thing going. I think you alluded a moment ago to saying that you felt it was a little less comedic at first. Um, I thought that everything was clicking.

• 24:54Chris Ryan?

  Parker Posey is funny. I mean, like, yeah.

• 24:55Andy Greenwald?

  I, I thought everything was clicking in a way that felt a little, not stakesy, because the show is always stakesy, but definitely it wasn't as campy. And if, but it is a tribute to Mike White that like, if you remove Jennifer Coolidge, who's next up? Um, we just did a pot on Friday. We were like, when Chevy Chase left the show and then Bill Murray stepped in. When Coolidge goes, Parker Posey? I, I, we've been waiting for the Posey-sonce for a long time, and she is ready for this moment, and she is hilarious.

• 25:18Chris Ryan?

  She's got the, the southern accent. I mean, she's from Louisiana, but she has this accent dialed in.

• 25:22Andy Greenwald?

  She's incredible. Um, so that is there. But kind of what I was feeling, though, was the lack of Coolidge, all due respect to her, in a positive way. Because until the season came full circle with the, the gays trying to kill her in season two, she did feel like an appendage, you know, and the show kind of steered into it because she is a more extravagant character. It was hard to have her, um, make sense with some of the more serious aspects of the show. Her not being there felt really strong and like, okay, now we're kind of like drilling down a little bit deeper and then Greg shows up.

• 25:56Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 25:56Andy Greenwald?

  And I am interested to see where it goes and I reserve the right to be delighted by Mike White's ability to weave these things into each other in a way that's not expected. But that was my only bump and I don't mean to start with a criticism, but I was so locked in to starting a lot of it fresh.

• 26:14Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. That that was. Going backwards almost felt strange.

• 26:17Andy Greenwald?

  A little bit, like because in the sense that like I didn't know, maybe viewers are watching it differently, like justice for, um, what's her name, for Jennifer Coolidge.

• 26:26Chris Ryan?

  Tanya.

• 26:26Andy Greenwald?

  For Tanya wasn't at the top of my wish list for this season, although it may be where we end up.

• 26:31Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, I mean, I think that obviously Greg's presence and Belinda's presence will, there will be a Tanya storyline thing that needs to be settled, whether it's Greg's sort of comeuppance or Belinda's getting like her financial compensation for what she feels like she's owed there. I think that it's a really smart, wise thing that he's doing by having there be some through lines, but maybe not the ones you'd always expect.

• 26:57Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, he is really good at that.

• 26:58Chris Ryan?

  It was a really, to me, it was unexpected to have Coolidge come back. I mean, I know that he's obviously incredibly affectionate towards her, but it also is a testament to his, I don't know, his discipline as a creative person to kill that character off in the second season.

• 27:13Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 27:13Chris Ryan?

  That's if you could.

• 27:14Andy Greenwald?

  Great point.

• 27:15Chris Ryan?

  There's another world of White Lotus where it's just like Tanya in different locations doing funny things while other people do stuff.

• 27:22Andy Greenwald?

  Getting sauced.

• 27:22Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, you know what I mean? And I think that, um, some people, maybe even Jennifer Coolidge, might have thought that that was an overly tragic end to her character, but, uh, and certainly caps the amount that she's able to contribute going forward. Maybe she'll show up as a force ghost on, on season three. But, uh, yeah, I was, I was happy to have some connective tissue to her previous seasons. And I do feel like the Rothwell character is a really good bridge between the staff who are from there and living in Thailand and the guests, um, like in terms of her, and her kind of like. Being in this situation where she is at once dining in the restaurant alone.

• 28:04Andy Greenwald?

  Yes.

• 28:05Chris Ryan?

  Uh, but is also quote unquote, working, um, is an interesting kind of limbo to put that character in.

• 28:11Andy Greenwald?

  And I think that one of the things that, that Mike White clearly considers before each season and location is why do people come to these places?

• 28:19Chris Ryan?

  Yes. I think that the people, even the characters are kind of almost openly considering it as well in this, in this season.

• 28:25Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah. And in this case, are they escaping something like the friends or celebrating something? Are they seeking something, which is the case with the, um, the, the Ratla family, specifically Piper, the middle child played by Sarah Catherine Hook, who's like-

• 28:38Chris Ryan?

  A theology student.

• 28:39Andy Greenwald?

  I, I'm here to talk to a monk.

• 28:41Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 28:41Andy Greenwald?

  And so we brought my whole family here.

• 28:43Chris Ryan?

  But when she goes down to the temple for the first time, seems like inhibited about-

• 28:46Andy Greenwald?

  Yes.

• 28:47Chris Ryan?

  Uh, like she's like not ready to go and, and experience that.

• 28:50Andy Greenwald?

  And, and then there is in the form of Greg, and then maybe even a little bit in Walton Goggins, like the show is going at the other reason, a, a large reason for tourism in Thailand, which is, uh, either like sort of chancing, sex tourism, money tourism, some piece of that.

• 29:08Chris Ryan?

  Say more.

• 29:10Andy Greenwald?

  I was there to write blog posts about sports and entertainment.

• 29:13Chris Ryan?

  One of us went to Thailand.

• 29:14Andy Greenwald?

  For the Walt Disney Corporation. I can't-

• 29:17Chris Ryan?

  I just go to East London, man.

• 29:19Andy Greenwald?

  That's it, man.

• 29:22Andy Greenwald?

  But, uh, the, so the Goggins character, as you said, is distracted and he's not enjoying anything and he seems unduly focused on-

• 29:29Chris Ryan?

  The owner.

• 29:30Andy Greenwald?

  The American husband of the woman who is the founder of the wellness program and is a former celebrity.

• 29:36Chris Ryan?

  It's also unclear where he gets the financial backing to-

• 29:39Andy Greenwald?

  To be living like this.

• 29:40Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. Cause it seems like he's basically been bouncing around with this girl in Bali and Australia or whatever, and just kind of moving around that way.

• 29:48Andy Greenwald?

  Yes. And so, uh, Lech Patravati plays Sri Thala, who's one of the owners who is excited to meet Jacqueline, the celebrity, but is getting all this attention from Goggins. Clearly. And so, so my, my supposition was that the missing American man is his father.

• 30:00Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 30:01Andy Greenwald?

  And that he's real pissed about something, some inheritance, something that is owed to him. Um, and that he's, he's bothered by that. He's also bothered by Jason Isaacs. They just, they just rub each other wrong, you know?

• 30:12Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 30:12Andy Greenwald?

  Goggins is, is just puffing on darts in public. Uh, Isaacs doesn't like that.

• 30:19Chris Ryan?

  Do you remember a lot of, uh, outdoor smoking when you were in Thailand?

• 30:22Andy Greenwald?

  Uh, the air is so thick.

• 30:24Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 30:24Andy Greenwald?

  Already?

• 30:25Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 30:25Andy Greenwald?

  Um, and again, as I said, I was mostly glued to my laptop.

• 30:28Chris Ryan?

  Sure.

• 30:28Andy Greenwald?

  For a lot of the time. So I can't say, I can't really speak to that. But it was real hot.

• 30:33Chris Ryan?

  That'd be amazing if you have no memories of Thailand because you were blogging.

• 30:36Andy Greenwald?

  I was just blogging. I have no memories of much of that decade.

• 30:39Chris Ryan?

  Um, a couple of things I really liked about these sort of opening scenes. Uh, one was the, um, the layered, not the class system. I guess it would be a class system and through the per, the eyes of the hotel owner where it was like, Jacqueline was clearly the, the, the golden goose of all of these people arriving. And, uh, this woman used to be a performer herself and there's obviously like this element of nighttime, dinnertime performances by the staff for the guests. But I thought that was cool how like even the rat lifts sort of feel brushed aside.

• 31:14Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, yeah. I mean, usually their money.

• 31:16Chris Ryan?

  Takes them anywhere they want.

• 31:17Andy Greenwald?

  And their personal narrative, like they are, their brand is that they are, uh, golden. They are likable. They are, look at, they have their, that the world will be delighted by their little quirks and conversations. Now, one of the quirks that is starting a conversation is that they're real sexy to each other.

• 31:33Chris Ryan?

  Yes, that the, the siblings especially seem to have, or at least the Patrick Schwarzenegger character.

• 31:40Andy Greenwald?

  He's the most white lotus character so far, I would say.

• 31:42Chris Ryan?

  Yes. And you know, the thing I like about this show.

• 31:45Andy Greenwald?

  By the way.

• 31:46Chris Ryan?

  Is that I always start one place with characters.

• 31:51Andy Greenwald?

  Yes.

• 31:52Chris Ryan?

  And they, you know, like you, like the Sydney Sweeney character in, in, uh, season one. You might begin one place and then it kind of evolves over the course of, of the season. Like there's depth to these people. So Saxon Ratliff seems just like, you know, Charlie Kirk on steroids or whatever you think he is, but I think he'll probably wind up having layers. May, may not be layers you personally like, but they are, there's no character. It's just going to be a surface level character.

• 32:22Andy Greenwald?

  So he's talking a lot about his sister's.

• 32:25Chris Ryan?

  Sexual.

• 32:26Andy Greenwald?

  Experiences.

• 32:27Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 32:27Andy Greenwald?

  Or lack thereof. He is, um.

• 32:31Andy Greenwald?

  Very interested in his younger brother's pornography habits.

• 32:34Chris Ryan?

  Yep.

• 32:34Andy Greenwald?

  And considers at least briefly putting on a bit of a, like a demo.

• 32:39Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 32:40Andy Greenwald?

  For him.

• 32:40Chris Ryan?

  Well, he goes right to the hub.

• 32:41Andy Greenwald?

  He goes, in all senses.

• 32:44Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 32:44Andy Greenwald?

  Um, and then my guy Sam Nevolas, uh, watching his brother.

• 32:49Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 32:50Andy Greenwald?

  Kind of like, maybe that's, again, we're only children.

• 32:51Chris Ryan?

  As only children, who can say?

• 32:52Andy Greenwald?

  We don't know how it's supposed to go.

• 32:54Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 32:55Andy Greenwald?

  You know, or what happens behind.

• 32:56Chris Ryan?

  So that's how they do things in that family.

• 32:59Andy Greenwald?

  Liter- literally that.

• 33:00Chris Ryan?

  Um.

• 33:01Andy Greenwald?

  But, but, but yeah, the rising tension there is that the Wall Street Journal is about to publish an article that will clearly, clearly expose, uh, Ratliff Senior. Um, I feel like I want to talk about Theo Ratliff.

• 33:12Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 33:12Andy Greenwald?

  The Sixers, maybe be a cousin. Um, Tim, Tim Ratliff, uh, Jason Isaacs's character, that maybe he, his money is ill-gotten or is a house of cards. Um, Jason Isaacs is another example, like Leslie Bibb, of, uh, the other thing Mike White can really do, which is coach up veterans.

• 33:29Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 33:30Andy Greenwald?

  Like, he sees, he sees, uh, market inefficiencies of people who are really, really good and have high Q ratings and, but just, just not getting the reps.

• 33:39Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 33:40Andy Greenwald?

  Necessarily. Um, he's a great, great actor.

• 33:42Chris Ryan?

  I want to talk about Kate Laurie and Jacqueline really quickly, just because they're, they're, uh, they're where most of my focus was.

• 33:49Andy Greenwald?

  Okay.

• 33:50Chris Ryan?

  Uh, obviously love Carrie Coon, and she's actually been in a lot of more kind of small-scale dramas and comedy, not, maybe not comedies, but like, you know, from his three daughters to Gilded Age, to everything else she's been doing over the last.

• 34:05Andy Greenwald?

  Leftovers?

• 34:06Chris Ryan?

  Leftovers. You know, Bibb is, I, I associate with being a comic actress.

• 34:10Andy Greenwald?

  Yes.

• 34:10Chris Ryan?

  Largely, and Monahan, uh, is somebody who I think of as like a movie star in some ways.

• 34:17Andy Greenwald?

  Did you keep your stock? Did you diversify it?

• 34:19Chris Ryan?

  I've always loved her. I, I always wished she made more, um, Lehane novels. I wish that they had.

• 34:24Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, yeah.

• 34:25Chris Ryan?

  I wish, I wish they did more Patrick and Angie books.

• 34:27Andy Greenwald?

  Gone Baby Gone.

• 34:28Chris Ryan?

  Gone Baby Gone is so fucked up, but was, she's so good in it.

• 34:32Andy Greenwald?

  She's great.

• 34:32Chris Ryan?

  And I always kind of, uh, was hoping that they would make two or three of those. Um, you know, she's incredible in True Detective, season one, but she hasn't really had like the role that I think people are like, that's the Michelle Monahan.

• 34:43Andy Greenwald?

  Agreed.

• 34:43Chris Ryan?

  Signature role, and I'm hoping it's this. I love his perception of the way people who are at once lifelong friends, but also now unfamiliar with each other as person, as people and as.

• 34:56Andy Greenwald?

  As adults.

• 34:57Chris Ryan?

  As adults. Kind of like overdo the affection and overdo the sniping.

• 35:04Andy Greenwald?

  But she also goes to, I mean, the perspective, the real, the perspective we get in the first episode is she's weeping.

• 35:10Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 35:11Andy Greenwald?

  After, you know, putting on a face for that whole day.

• 35:13Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 35:13Andy Greenwald?

  And by the way, jet lag's real.

• 35:15Chris Ryan?

  Oh, fuck, yeah.

• 35:16Andy Greenwald?

  Like, I feel like, no disrespect to anyone, like, but, but the moment when Jason Isaac's discovers Parker Posey just fully asleep and he's like, come on, like, I feel like that's lived experience for you.

• 35:29Chris Ryan?

  Yes. Yeah. Anything else you want to touch on from this episode?

• 35:34Andy Greenwald?

  No, I mean, I'm curious about the ways that the show chooses to engage with its setting. The first season didn't really get to do much of that. There was the subplot about the luau dancer and the robbery and the tourism economy, but that season was also bracketed by the fact that it actually was COVID, so they weren't doing a lot of location shooting outside of, outside of the resort.

• 35:57Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 35:58Andy Greenwald?

  That was remedied in season two, where the F. Marie Abraham Perioli story, like, they were wandering around.

• 36:03Chris Ryan?

  Yes, they were trying to reconnect to their own family.

• 36:05Andy Greenwald?

  So they were out in Italy in a different way, and it looked beautiful because of it. This season, at least, you know, going from the trailer, this is not a spoiler, this was in the trailer, it appears that Walter Goggins, Walton Goggins's character goes to Bangkok, which is not, or at least a major city in Thailand, which is not what Phuket is, it's an island far from there, you have to take a flight. And then, like you said, the, the middle daughter, I promise I'll get these names, Piper, I'll get these names by episode three.

• 36:33Chris Ryan?

  Learning a lot about a lot of people right now.

• 36:34Andy Greenwald?

  But like, her interest in Buddhism and in the temple and her reticence to engage in it, I mean, that is an interesting aspect of it, because jokes aside, like, when I wasn't, when anyone goes to Thailand, like, spirituality and literal monks and temple, like, that is, it's like breathing air. It is, it is inescapable. It is not unlike what the brief education Belinda gets before, I believe, oh, no, just after the monitor lizard. Like, it's all on top of each other and it's all happening and it's very, very present in the lived, day-to-day lives of Thai people in a way that, like, church on Sundays is not, that's not the same thing as it is in America. So. I'm very curious what he chooses to engage in and what he doesn't and the levers he pulls

• 37:17Andy Greenwald?

  to get us into that world or to bring that world in because there is that meaningful thing with mooc and the security moocs.

• 37:25Chris Ryan?

  Guy Talk, yeah. Oh, yeah, oh, yeah.

• 37:27Andy Greenwald?

  With guns.

• 37:28Chris Ryan?

  The guys who are like the private security for the hotel.

• 37:29Andy Greenwald?

  And what they think of as, you know, versus the role they play versus Guy Talk, who is basically like the valet.

• 37:35Chris Ryan?

  Right.

• 37:36Andy Greenwald?

  And the role that he plays. So it's a spicy, spicy curry, if you will, but I thought it was extremely.

• 37:44Chris Ryan?

  Spicy Thai meatball.

• 37:45Andy Greenwald?

  I thought it was extremely, I just thought it was really promising.

• 37:47Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, I mean, whatever. It's just like, he's one of the best making TV right now and I've no real concerns about it.

• 37:55Andy Greenwald?

  Isn't that nice for a change, just to like, take a second and be like, this is a reliable product.

• 38:00Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 38:01Andy Greenwald?

  That is such a rarity in TV these days.

• 38:03Chris Ryan?

  And they've already started talking about four and it sounds like it's probably going to Europe.

• 38:07Andy Greenwald?

  Have you heard this?

• 38:08Chris Ryan?

  Well, I mean, there was a rumor online that there was, they were going to do it in Norway, that there was a production notice in Norway.

• 38:14Andy Greenwald?

  Is that because we were there last year?

• 38:15Chris Ryan?

  I think that's why. I think they said, well, Green World went to Thailand.

• 38:17Andy Greenwald?

  Yes, yes, yes.

• 38:18Chris Ryan?

  We'll go to Thailand, then CR and Andy were in Norway, so let's hit it.

• 38:22Andy Greenwald?

  So that would mean then season five would be at a hotel near Wembley in honor of your trip for Grantland?

• 38:28Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 38:29Andy Greenwald?

  That is.

• 38:30Chris Ryan?

  I could show them around.

• 38:31Andy Greenwald?

  That is exciting.

• 38:32Chris Ryan?

  Thanks to Kai and CT, we are going to be taking Thursday off.

• 38:36Andy Greenwald?

  It's a Spotify Wellness Week, I believe.

• 38:38Chris Ryan?

  It is Spotify Wellness Week. And Andy will be unwell in a pub somewhere.

• 38:41Andy Greenwald?

  UK Wellness Week for me.

• 38:43Chris Ryan?

  Rewatching Super Bowl highlights. I hope everybody has a great week and enjoy White Lotus and.

• 38:49Andy Greenwald?

  We'll be back a week from today.

• 38:51Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 38:52Andy Greenwald?

  With more Lotus and I know people just can't wait to hear my Severance takes, right? People fired up?

• 38:57Chris Ryan?

  Talk to you guys soon.