Jonathan Groff

Jonathan Groff is a good, nice boy. Amy hangs with the Broadway star and talks about playing Dorothy at 4 years old, why he smells horse when he listens to the cast recording of 'Company,' and stealing the show in 'Hamilton.' Host: Amy PoehlerGuests: Gracie Lawrence and Jonathan GroffExecutive Producers: Bill Simmons, Amy Poehler, and Jenna Weiss-BermanFor Paper Kite Productions: Executive producer Jenna Weiss-Berman, coordinator Sam Green, and supervising producer Joel LovellFor The Ringer: Supervising producers Juliet Litman, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin; video producers Jack Wilson, Belle Roman, and Aleya Zenieris; lighting director Caroline Jannace; audio producer Kaya McMullen; video editor Drew van Steenbergen; and booker Kat SpillaneOriginal Music: Amy Miles Order ALDI on Uber Eats: https://earn.sng.link/A99vk/i2fm/okid Visible. Live in the know. https://www.visible.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Amy Poehler?

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• 0:38Amy Poehler?

  Hello, everyone. Welcome to another episode of Good Hang. We are so excited to talk to Jonathan Groff. Huge fan. And what a delight. What a just so, so talented and funny and so fun to talk to. And we're going to talk about a lot of things today. We're going to talk about horses. We're going to talk about Broadway. We're going to talk about making lasting friendships at work. We're going to talk about us both playing Dorothy in The Wizard of Oz and the different things we brought to it. And we're going to talk about his Broadway smash hit, Just in Time, which is open for a few more weeks on Broadway. He plays Bobby Darin. It's amazing. You have to see it. But before we do, we're going to check in with someone who knows our guest, who's worked with our guest, who loves our guest. And that person is Gracie Lawrence.

• 1:22Amy Poehler?

  Gracie is an incredible singer from the band Lawrence. She was Connie Francis in Just in Time. And we are going to speak to her while she is in rehearsal for another Broadway show, All Out. Gracie, do you have a question for our darling Jonathan? Hi.

• 1:46Amy Poehler?

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• 2:27Speaker 01

  Hello?

• 2:28Amy Poehler?

  Gracie?

• 2:29Speaker 01

  Okay, wait, sorry, there's some people in my dressing room that are...

• 2:36Speaker 01

  I told them that I was in the middle of something, but it's like...

• 2:41Amy Poehler?

  Oh my god, listeners, Jon Stewart and Abby Jacobson are flanking Gracie Lawrence right now. We got a threefer.

• 2:49Speaker 02

  A threefer.

• 2:49Speaker 01

  A sentence I've dreamed of.

• 2:52Speaker 02

  A threefer with Amy Poehler.

• 2:54Amy Poehler?

  Oh my god, hi friends!

• 2:57Speaker 02

  Hello, friends!

• 2:57Amy Poehler?

  What a good surprise!

• 2:59Speaker 01

  No, they live in my dressing room, yeah. We share our dressing...

• 3:03Speaker 02

  This one, Amy, top, top notch.

• 3:06Amy Poehler?

  Yeah, so, so tal- so naturally talented.

• 3:12Speaker 02

  The only downside, honestly, Amy, is the drinking. It's really, that's the part that, it's the only thing that's holding her back.

• 3:18Amy Poehler?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 3:19Speaker 01

  We don't have to talk about it.

• 3:21Amy Poehler?

  Well, yeah, there's actually not a podcast today. Gracie, we're all here because we love you and we wanna...

• 3:28Speaker 01

  You know what, I thought that this seemed strange. I was like, why are they in my dressing room? Why am I getting a call from Amy Poehler?

• 3:36Amy Poehler?

  Look at you guys, Broadway, you know, it's just rehearsal.

• 3:40Speaker 02

  Broadway babies.

• 3:41Speaker 01

  Broadway babies. Guys, let's do our thing. Me, me, me, me, me, me, me. Okay, we actually do have to go though.

• 3:49Amy Poehler?

  Okay, bye.

• 3:50Speaker 01

  Love you.

• 3:50Amy Poehler?

  Love you. We're talking about and to Jonathan Groff today, who I know you love.

• 3:56Speaker 01

  I love Jonathan Groff. In such an intense way, wait, I need to say something to you first.

• 4:02Amy Poehler?

  Okay, wait, okay, wait.

• 4:04Speaker 01

  Okay, like, wait, like, everyone stop. First of all, I would watch this, this podcast in my dressing room at just in time before the show because it was like a calming, warm hug. I would watch it with my dressing room roommate, Erica Henningson.

• 4:19Amy Poehler?

  Erica!

• 4:20Speaker 01

  The best. We'd be like panicking before we went on stage and we would watch this podcast and a calm would come over us.

• 4:27Amy Poehler?

  So, Gracie, you are rehearsing right now for your new Broadway show.

• 4:31Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 4:31Amy Poehler?

  Do you want to tell people what that is?

• 4:33Speaker 01

  Yes, it's a show called All Out with our mutual friends Abby Jacobson and Jon Stewart and Eric Andre and Ike Baranholz.

• 4:42Amy Poehler?

  Um, and FYI, I'm coming to see it tonight.

• 4:46Speaker 01

  I heard that nasty little rumor. Are you really? Oh, my God, I'm gonna be so.

• 4:51Amy Poehler?

  And I like to wear a very loud sweater so people can see me and I like to make a lot of noise.

• 4:58Speaker 01

  I'll find you.

• 4:59Amy Poehler?

  And I like to give thumbs up or thumbs down as the show goes on.

• 5:01Speaker 01

  That's totally fine with me. I like to make a lot of uncomfortable eye contact with one audience member and I think it's gonna be you tonight. Yeah, and then I'm in the show with my band, Lawrence, which is my brother and I and six of our closest friends and we're playing our original music in this show. It's super cool.

• 5:20Amy Poehler?

  And Gracie, you are, like, you straddle this amazing world and one of the things I want to talk to Jonathan.

• 5:27Speaker 01

  Do I straddle?

• 5:28Amy Poehler?

  Well, you straddle an amazing world. Don't get dirty, little, little minx. You'll watch it. Someone's listening to this before they go on and they want peaceful.

• 5:38Speaker 01

  They want peaceful, no, totally.

• 5:39Amy Poehler?

  Okay, you're a singer and you are on onstage and you record and you act like you and it's really interesting because I think Jonathan, very similarly, like when I look at his career, he has done so many things and both of you are examples of like, there's no categorizing artists anymore. There's no, you know, there used to be this feeling that like you could only be this kind of performer or actor.

• 6:05Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 6:05Amy Poehler?

  And Jonathan is a perfect example of that. Can you tell me the first time you met him and what your first impression of him was?

• 6:12Speaker 01

  I met Jonathan on the first day of rehearsal of the workshop of Just in Time.

• 6:20Amy Poehler?

  And for people who don't know, can you just tell us what that show is?

• 6:23Speaker 01

  Just in Time is a Broadway show. It is directed by Alex Timbers and it is about the life of Bobby Darin and I play Connie Francis and Jonathan plays, played, Jonathan currently plays Bobby Darin. I played Connie Francis. And yeah, we met on the first day of the workshop. And I was really nervous.

• 6:47Amy Poehler?

  Hmm.

• 6:48Speaker 01

  Um, which is like a theme of my life. Um, and Jonathan walked in and the first thing I did in the day was sing with him. That was like my first, my first entrance to this show. He walked in like star of the show, like he was just such a star from the second he walked in. It was like, I got the right entrance from him. I was like watching him walk and he put his binder down and then he sat down next to me. It was kind of like, and then he just did the, did the Jonathan Groff thing of like making really intense, beautiful eye contact with you.

• 7:22Amy Poehler?

  Perfect.

• 7:23Speaker 01

  Which you'll experience.

• 7:24Amy Poehler?

  Can't wait. He's so charming. As far as his actual like big, uh, width and breadth of talent, what, what, what do you think makes him such a special performer?

• 7:35Speaker 01

  I do think he's like one of the greats, like one of the greatest performers of all time. He reminds me of the kind of performer that, you know, is of a different era. He reminds me of Bobby Darin, like he is this kind of performer that can do it all and is like so magnetic and so charming.

• 7:55Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 7:56Speaker 01

  His magic trick as a performer is making people feel so at ease and so comfortable and like they know him immediately. And even when he's playing bizarre weirdos, it's like you still feel really comfortable around him and you want to. He's like the most watchable person I've ever met ever on stage, like.

• 8:15Amy Poehler?

  Yes.

• 8:16Speaker 01

  And his, the eye contact thing, because I will tend to be like, you know, like if someone's looking at me too long, I'm like, what? He will lock the fuck in, like he will, he's gonna do that.

• 8:29Amy Poehler?

  Okay.

• 8:29Speaker 01

  He is also like a lover of like shenaniganry and like bullshit on stage. Like he will really. I don't know how he knows the right moment to do the things, but like somehow he will violently tickle me on stage, consensually. And I'll have friends at the show and I'll be like, did you guys notice when Jonathan just like fully in the middle of the scene was like and they'll be like, no, I didn't catch that. And I'm like, how does he like know? He just really knows.

• 9:04Amy Poehler?

  He has a playful energy. That's a tiny bit of, um, I mean, I ma- I imagine when you just do show after show after show, you gotta keep it fresh.

• 9:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:14Amy Poehler?

  Um, okay. So I asked my Zoom guests to give me a question for my guest.

• 9:19Speaker 01

  I, I thought of a million questions, um, because he is in some ways so anomalous. Um, but given that I'm technically a new friend of his, even though I feel I know him very well. Um, I've noticed in this year that I've never seen him frazzled or anxious or nervous. And he's had so many occasions where he like objectively should be. Um, like leading a show, you know, doing huge interviews, going to the Tonys, performing three times of the Tonys. He is like Yoda-like, like he is so calm.

• 10:04Speaker 01

  And when I'm nervous, he always turns to me after I say like, I'm feeling kinda nervous. He was like, really? Huh. Like he doesn't understand that. Um, and I'm wondering, why isn't he more scared of things?

• 10:24Speaker 01

  When did he, has he always been this way? Like, did I meet him in a time in his life where he just really has his shit together? Or has he always been extremely calm? Like when he was auditioning for things back in the day, was he like going in the room shaky? Or was he like, like so calm? And like, what, if anything, scares him now, little bitch?

• 10:53Speaker 01

  Like, I'm annoyed. It's crazy.

• 10:56Amy Poehler?

  Yeah, that's a great, great question because you're absolutely right. You never catch him working too hard, but he's the hardest worker. And he makes things, I mean, that's to your point about like, we feel like we know him. He also makes things feel accessible to us, like I think great artists do. They just, they don't overcomplicate things.

• 11:19Speaker 01

  No, he's not tortured.

• 11:20Amy Poehler?

  No, he's not. That's why I love him. Because he's such a good example, in my opinion, of the more talented you are, the easier you are to work with, period, the end. Like, again, there are the few eccentric geniuses, but for the most part, if you're not coming from a fear-based place, it's such a pleasure to work together with someone who's so talented, so.

• 11:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:44Amy Poehler?

  Well, Gracie, that's a really, really good question. And I think he's really good, really great. I mean, I cannot thank you enough for taking what I'm sure is your, this is probably your downtime, your eating time, your looking at your phone time before you have to go back out there.

• 11:59Speaker 01

  I'm sure they're just, I'm supposed to be rehearsing something, but who cares? I'm here.

• 12:05Amy Poehler?

  Thank you so much. Such a pleasure to meet you. Take care. Bye.

• 12:11Amy Poehler?

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• 12:52Amy Poehler?

  Jonathan, I'm very, very excited that you're here.

• 12:55Speaker 03

  I'm very excited to be here.

• 12:56Amy Poehler?

  I thank you for doing this. You know, when we started the show, we were like, who, we just like thought about people that we wanted to talk to that would be good hangs, and you were definitely someone that we really wanted to talk to.

• 13:07Speaker 03

  I am so honored. I'm so honored.

• 13:09Amy Poehler?

  Thank you. And have we ever met?

• 13:11Speaker 03

  No, this is our first time.

• 13:12Amy Poehler?

  This is our first time meeting. I mean, I'm sure you got the slot, but I do feel like I've met you.

• 13:16Speaker 03

  Same, same. I know I lifted you up.

• 13:20Amy Poehler?

  Yeah, it was an off, it was off camera, but when you came in, we hugged and you lifted me up, which I really enjoyed.

• 13:25Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 13:26Amy Poehler?

  I mean, I don't always love being lifted up, but I really liked when you did it. And also, people should know you're very jacked.

• 13:34Speaker 03

  Oh, my God. Thank you. I'll take it.

• 13:37Amy Poehler?

  Your arms were really strong.

• 13:38Speaker 03

  I'll take it. My friend Suzie, every time I would see her, I would lift her up, and then she was like, Jonathan, please stop lifting me. I don't like to be lifted.

• 13:48Amy Poehler?

  That's a good friend.

• 13:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 13:50Amy Poehler?

  Well, when you're like a short person, sometimes like-

• 13:52Speaker 03

  Yes, this was her point.

• 13:53Amy Poehler?

  In improv, you got lifted up a lot, which by the way, I'm sure there's many women out there that are like, oh, you got lifted up a lot? Good thing to complain about.

• 14:05Speaker 03

  But I, you know, I get it, though. There's like assumptions made. I lifted you-

• 14:09Amy Poehler?

  No, it was nice.

• 14:10Speaker 03

  And then I felt like, oh, no, did I just assume?

• 14:13Amy Poehler?

  No, everything, I loved everything about it. I loved everything about it.

• 14:16Speaker 03

  Thank God. It was exciting. That was our first meeting.

• 14:18Amy Poehler?

  I know. And, and I'm talking to you today, talking to you today because you have your show tonight.

• 14:24Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 14:25Amy Poehler?

  And it's, literally, you're gonna be onstage in a few hours.

• 14:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 14:30Amy Poehler?

  And I have so much I want to talk to you about today. I, but, but what, one thing I realized is that you've done so many things so well, it's gonna be hard to talk about all of them. But most of your life, your job, the hardest part of your day is at the end of your day. Like, what is it like to have a full day waiting for your hardest part of the day to start?

• 14:53Speaker 03

  That is such a great question, Amy.

• 14:56Amy Poehler?

  Thank you.

• 14:58Speaker 03

  And I've never thought about it like that before.

• 15:01Amy Poehler?

  I used to have a version of that with SNL, right? But that was once a week was the actual performance. The rest of the time was like a split, like, you know, midday to night.

• 15:10Speaker 03

  It may be the most challenging part of my day, but it's also the most joyful part of my day. That getting out there and getting to do it, it's like I'm like a kid with the high school play.

• 15:25Amy Poehler?

  That's awesome.

• 15:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, I get amped and then I sleep very hard at night. So I think maybe I'm naturally a night person.

• 15:33Amy Poehler?

  Before we get into your life, I need to get into sleep because it's my favorite thing to talk about. What time do you go to bed?

• 15:40Speaker 03

  Okay, so usually the show-

• 15:41Amy Poehler?

  I'm not gonna like this.

• 15:45Amy Poehler?

  I'm already worried, but the show's over at, what, 10?

• 15:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, the show's over at 10:30.

• 15:50Amy Poehler?

  Oh, god.

• 15:50Speaker 03

  And then oftentimes, part of the fun is like having people backstage.

• 15:54Amy Poehler?

  Nightmare.

• 15:58Amy Poehler?

  True nightmare.

• 15:59Speaker 03

  And then I'll talk to people and hang for a bit in the dressing room. I'll get on my bicycle.

• 16:07Amy Poehler?

  You bike home?

• 16:08Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 16:09Amy Poehler?

  Should people know that? We can cut that. Don't follow him.

• 16:14Speaker 03

  Suddenly I'm being followed by people on bikes.

• 16:16Amy Poehler?

  That's incredible.

• 16:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, I bike to and from the theater. I arrive on a bike usually.

• 16:21Amy Poehler?

  That's great.

• 16:22Speaker 03

  And then I'm in bed probably by like 12:30, 12:30 or 1.

• 16:27Amy Poehler?

  Okay, I like that.

• 16:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, I'll go home, I'll eat something, I'll watch some Youtubes.

• 16:31Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 16:32Speaker 03

  And then I'll, I do feel when I walk in my apartment, like, I start to go like-

• 16:39Amy Poehler?

  Mm-hmm, like night-night.

• 16:40Speaker 03

  I'm powering down, I'm dying, yeah.

• 16:42Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 16:42Speaker 03

  And then I fall asleep and I, are you, I'm a very hard sleeper.

• 16:50Amy Poehler?

  I I used to be a really, really hard sleeper. I'm I'm getting a little lighter as I get older. But yeah, I'm with you. I'm not, I don't get up in the middle of, I can go down. I can go down.

• 17:00Speaker 03

  I go down.

• 17:01Amy Poehler?

  You go down.

• 17:02Speaker 03

  It's on.

• 17:02Amy Poehler?

  And then what time is morning time? Is it 10 a.m. or is it 9 a.m.?

• 17:07Speaker 03

  It's 10 a.m. How did you know it was 10 a.m.?

• 17:09Amy Poehler?

  Well, because the 1 a.m. bedtime is usually like a 10 a.m. wake up.

• 17:12Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah, that's the natural, that's the natural wake up.

• 17:16Amy Poehler?

  10 a.m.

• 17:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 17:17Amy Poehler?

  So we're, we're talking to you right now at like basically your lunchtime.

• 17:21Speaker 03

  That's exactly right. I'm having this coffee.

• 17:24Amy Poehler?

  Black coffee for lunch. I'm having black coffee for lunch.

• 17:27Speaker 03

  And what is this, like, what time are you gonna go to bed tonight? Like, we're gonna finish this.

• 17:30Amy Poehler?

  I actually, I'm already stressed about the fact I have to go, have to. I have the lucky privilege of going to a show tonight.

• 17:40Amy Poehler?

  I'm going to a show and I'm already stressed about the fact that I'm not gonna be.

• 17:43Speaker 03

  In bed.

• 17:44Amy Poehler?

  In bed. I love bedtime. Ideally for me.

• 17:47Speaker 03

  You couldn't go to a matinee?

• 17:49Amy Poehler?

  I know, I, I blew it. I love a matinee.

• 17:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, right, cuz then you can go straight to bed.

• 17:54Amy Poehler?

  And when I'm there, I'm so happy, but I'm literally counting the minutes till I can go to sleep. Um, okay, but what I wanted to say, Jonathan, I'm, now I'm starting.

• 18:03Speaker 03

  Okay, okay.

• 18:04Amy Poehler?

  Okay.

• 18:05Speaker 03

  You got the glasses on.

• 18:07Amy Poehler?

  Well, because we kinda wrote it down because you are such a nice boy. You're a good, nice boy. You, to me, are the embodiment of someone who is deeply, deeply open and, and, and a good, caring, nice person and also crushing it and ambitious and like, like ambition with a side of, you know, compassion, basically. You don't have to be a jerk.

• 18:38Speaker 03

  I love that you're saying that too, yeah, because oftentimes ambition is seen as like a negative thing or like a cutthroat thing, that you have to like push people aside in order to do your thing, but we're all just in our own, on our own little like track and field lane.

• 18:53Amy Poehler?

  Yes, that's right. You're only competing with yourself.

• 18:55Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 18:56Amy Poehler?

  And that, the idea that if, like a ri, you know, what is it, a rising, a, a rising boat?

• 19:02Speaker 03

  All boats rise.

• 19:03Amy Poehler?

  Yeah. It's not that.

• 19:06Speaker 03

  All boats rise.

• 19:07Amy Poehler?

  But isn't it a rising tide? A rising tide rises all the boats.

• 19:12Speaker 03

  Really?

• 19:13Amy Poehler?

  A rising tide lifts all boats. But that-

• 19:16Speaker 03

  A rising tide-

• 19:18Amy Poehler?

  That's your warm up for tonight. A rising tide lifts all boats.

• 19:21Speaker 03

  A rising tide lifts all boats. It does.

• 19:25Amy Poehler?

  A rising tide lifts all boats.

• 19:27Speaker 03

  That was good. You matched my- that was perfect.

• 19:30Amy Poehler?

  Thank you. But it's true. It's true like that there's this, you know, you can decide. And I feel like, I feel like not knowing you, but knowing so many people who love and love working with you. I feel like that is you. And so congratulations on that. I have no question. I just wanted to say that about you.

• 19:45Speaker 03

  Well, right back at you.

• 19:46Amy Poehler?

  And you have done so much. You've done musicals, you've done television, you've done film. You're on Broadway right now. You, you were in Spring Awakening. Of course, you were in Hamilton, you were in Glee, you were in Mindhunter. You, like, you, you're Kristoff in Frozen. You do so many things so well.

• 20:03Amy Poehler?

  But through it all, through it all, I feel the sense from you of exactly what you, we started this conversation with, which is like, there's still just like a lot of joy in getting to do what you get to do.

• 20:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 20:14Amy Poehler?

  And if, and like you hold on to that, you're grateful for it.

• 20:16Speaker 03

  Yes, yes.

• 20:18Amy Poehler?

  Yes, it's fantastic.

• 20:20Speaker 03

  And you like, you find those people. I mean, you, you're the queen of this, of like finding those people that you love and love to make things with. And I feel like as time goes by, I just turned 40 last year. I can feel myself like getting magnetized to those people later in life of like, ah. Like, working with Dan Radcliffe on Merrily, he like, that was, that was, I think, the first time I was like, oh, I've really met my match here because this guy loves to do this so profoundly. And we formed a lifelong friendship with our friend Lindsay, really everyone in that company. But like Dan, Dan was like sick and gripping me, like he like had to be out.

• 21:05Speaker 03

  There was like a need in him that I really related to. And I'm finding like as time goes by and you get older, like there's such a joy in the people that we started out with. The ones that really want to be here are still here.

• 21:19Amy Poehler?

  Yes.

• 21:19Speaker 03

  It's such a cool thing.

• 21:20Amy Poehler?

  And Dan Radcliffe, Radcliffe is an example of this and you are, which is also you want longevity in the business. You want to work a long time if you, like, it's, it's the long game. Playing the long game.

• 21:34Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 21:34Amy Poehler?

  And, I mean, I can't wait to talk to you about Merrily. It's such an incredible piece of art. It's so deep. I can only imagine what it must have been like to be approaching 40 and winning a Tony for a piece that is all about the circular feeling of life and like having it in real time. And so before we get there, we're gonna, we're gonna get there. But I, I am so enamored and, and moved by your, by little Jonathan on the horse farm. Like, where the horses? You grew up in Lancaster, Pennsylvania?

• 22:15Speaker 03

  Yes, yeah.

• 22:16Amy Poehler?

  Your dad was a horse trainer?

• 22:17Speaker 03

  Yep, still is.

• 22:18Amy Poehler?

  Is?

• 22:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 22:20Amy Poehler?

  And do you ride horses and do you like horses?

• 22:24Amy Poehler?

  Oh, is this controversial?

• 22:25Speaker 03

  It's not controversial. I, so he did, he does harness racing. So it's like the cart behind the horse. Like, you're sitting in the cart with the whip.

• 22:34Amy Poehler?

  Oh, yeah.

• 22:34Speaker 03

  And so.

• 22:36Amy Poehler?

  Is that, are you in a, like, a large, was that like a Mennonite?

• 22:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, my dad is, his whole family is Mennonite.

• 22:43Amy Poehler?

  Wow.

• 22:44Speaker 03

  My grandfather was a Mennonite preacher. And he kind of like was expected to take over the dairy farm because he was the oldest son, but didn't, wasn't into cows. And so pivoted to horses and got really into horse racing. And then my mom was raised Methodist. And so started going to the Methodist church because the Mennonites were not super into the gambling aspect of his career.

• 23:08Amy Poehler?

  Oh, interesting.

• 23:09Speaker 03

  He wasn't shunned or anything, but just, yeah. And so, yeah, growing up, I would play pretend on the horse farm with my brother. But my brother and I, my brother David and I, we're both. Petrified of the horses because they're so scary.

• 23:27Amy Poehler?

  I got it. So I'm afraid of horses.

• 23:29Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 23:30Amy Poehler?

  They scare me. I respect them. They're beautiful.

• 23:33Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 23:34Amy Poehler?

  I don't mess around with horses.

• 23:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, and that's really wise. I feel like when you know that, you're really tapping into the empathy of the horse because like-

• 23:41Amy Poehler?

  Yes, I don't want to startle them.

• 23:43Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 23:44Amy Poehler?

  And I'm a little nervous. I don't want to make them nervous.

• 23:46Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 23:47Amy Poehler?

  And there are some people that are just so, so good with them. And I feel like, I feel to horses like people who don't want to have children feel towards children.

• 23:55Speaker 03

  To kids, yes.

• 23:56Amy Poehler?

  Yeah, which is like, I think that's great for you.

• 23:58Speaker 03

  Yes, not my journey.

• 24:00Amy Poehler?

  And I want people who want to ride horses to ride horses, not my journey.

• 24:02Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 24:03Amy Poehler?

  They're so tall, their eyes are so-

• 24:08Speaker 03

  Their mouths are enormous.

• 24:10Amy Poehler?

  Enormous and they're blanching.

• 24:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, yes.

• 24:14Amy Poehler?

  They don't make that sound.

• 24:16Speaker 03

  I was nervous, like, I was shoveling the shit in the stalls with the horses also. So you can imagine not loving them. And like, the, like, sort of like moving around the horse to like shovel its shit into the thing. I was like, it was not, yeah.

• 24:30Amy Poehler?

  That's funny. Like, that's like not going into the family business. It's not like horses.

• 24:34Speaker 03

  Yes, I was blasting Britney Spears and Stephen Sondheim on the like, on the tape player in the barn, shoveling the horse shit, being like, this, I don't fit here.

• 24:46Amy Poehler?

  I love that, I loved your Tony speech when you thanked your family and your brother, your parents, like, for like letting you just be you. And like, they really did that, right?

• 24:56Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 24:57Amy Poehler?

  You were exactly that, singing and dressing up and getting to do stuff. And everybody was like, that's, that's our Jonathan.

• 25:04Speaker 03

  We have this VHS of me dressed as Mary Poppins. I was three. And my mom and my dad, like, they, I had lipstick and a carpet bag and a hat and a dress.

• 25:15Amy Poehler?

  Nice.

• 25:16Speaker 03

  And we're on my grandfather's Mennonite farm, Wade. And I'm like with the carpet bag, like, and in the background you can hear him going, "Mary, oh, Mary." Not even really clocking the gay joke that he's making by calling me Mary, but-

• 25:33Amy Poehler?

  Which then became a very successful Broadway show.

• 25:35Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 25:37Amy Poehler?

  And that's where, that's where Cole got the idea.

• 25:39Speaker 03

  That's where Cole got the idea.

• 25:42Speaker 03

  Oh my god, totally. Yeah, yeah.

• 25:45Amy Poehler?

  And who was saying that? Was your dad saying that?

• 25:47Speaker 03

  My Mennonite grandfather preacher Wade.

• 25:52Amy Poehler?

  Oh Wade.

• 25:53Speaker 03

  So incredible.

• 25:54Amy Poehler?

  So sweet.

• 25:55Speaker 03

  They, I, I think if they had like equated putting this young boy in a gown may open up homosexuality in him. It's like the on-ramp to gayness. They may not have done it, but this was like before the internet and like they, they just beautifully allowed me to, to

• 26:14Amy Poehler?

  So great.

• 26:15Speaker 03

  Fly my freak flag.

• 26:17Amy Poehler?

  Yes, and I heard, did you play Dorothy in The Wizard of Oz? I, I did as well. What age did you play Dorothy?

• 26:25Speaker 03

  At four.

• 26:27Amy Poehler?

  What did you bring to the role? How did you?

• 26:30Amy Poehler?

  How did you see her?

• 26:33Amy Poehler?

  Four.

• 26:33Speaker 03

  I brought a lot, there's also a video of that. I brought a lot of, um, I brought a real, like a, I was screaming a lot.

• 26:41Amy Poehler?

  Oh.

• 26:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 26:44Speaker 03

  And I saw a lot of me going like, ah!

• 26:47Amy Poehler?

  Because of the tornado?

• 26:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 26:48Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 26:49Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 26:49Amy Poehler?

  You were playing the tornado.

• 26:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, I was like, I was very tornado forward in my interpretation.

• 26:53Amy Poehler?

  Interesting. So you were interested in the, like the trauma before the the yellow brick road.

• 26:59Speaker 03

  Yes, I held that, like that, I carried through, yeah. What was your on-ramp?

• 27:03Amy Poehler?

  Thank you for asking. I was in fourth grade and I was really into I was in fourth grade, a little older, a little wiser. I knew we were gonna be okay, I think.

• 27:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 27:11Amy Poehler?

  But I was really interested in the, like, the follow me aspect. I was very much like, come on over here, come on.

• 27:19Amy Poehler?

  Very into like

• 27:20Speaker 03

  Leading lady.

• 27:21Amy Poehler?

  Follow the, like, follow the yellow brick road, like, let's go. The, the let's go of Dorothy. Like the, I love the skipping and the running around and just like the, the journey part. I was really into that part. And the tornado, I just, um, I just went internal. I just played really small.

• 27:40Speaker 03

  You were more, you were more like the phoenix rising from the ashes. You were like leading everyone somewhere.

• 27:46Amy Poehler?

  It was just in my eyes. The tornado was in my eyes.

• 27:49Speaker 03

  It was like a quick look, like blink and you miss it.

• 27:53Amy Poehler?

  I went, what was that?

• 27:54Speaker 03

  Wait, is she okay? But then immediately you were leading us. Yeah. Oh, so much smarter!

• 27:58Amy Poehler?

  Fuck. Lions and tigers and bears.

• 28:01Speaker 03

  Oh my!

• 28:09Speaker 04

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• 28:35Speaker 05

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• 28:46Speaker 06

  I needed more from my antidepressant, so my doctor added Caplyta lumateperone, proven to provide greater relief from depression symptoms than an antidepressant alone, building on my progress without starting over. Caplyta is for adults with major depressive disorder when used with an antidepressant and is available by prescription only. Individual results may vary. In clinical trials, weight gain was not common.

• 29:07Speaker 05

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• 29:33Speaker 06

  Ask your doctor about Caplyta. Learn more at caplyta.com or call 888-252-4824.

• 29:39Amy Poehler?

  This episode is brought to you by CarMax. Thinking of selling your car but still a little unsure if or how? Start by getting an online offer from CarMax. It's a real offer worth real money, but there's no pressure to take it. CarMax gives you up to seven days to compare offers and think it over. And when you're ready to sell, they'll pick the car up directly from your home. Get a real offer today at carmax.com. At-home pickup not available in all locations. Distance restrictions and fees may apply. This episode is brought to you by K18. You know, hair isn't just hair. It's confidence, identity. So if you're noticing more hair in the shower drain or those first grays, you need K18 Future IQ Biomimetic Hair Longevity Serum.

• 30:24Amy Poehler?

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• 31:33Amy Poehler?

  Okay, so then you're on the farm, you're scared of horses, you're singing. What makes you, you're gonna go to college and then you get a part?

• 31:47Speaker 03

  It really is as you describe. You're on the farm, you're with the horses, you're singing.

• 31:55Speaker 03

  What is gonna happen? When I listen to the original cast recording of Company, I still smell horse. I still have the sense memory of smelling horse.

• 32:04Amy Poehler?

  Really listening to it in the barn.

• 32:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, it smells like, yeah, it smells like, like, um, like the pile of manure that we would make from the stall.

• 32:12Amy Poehler?

  How did you get those records? Like, who, how did you find out about? What was the, what was the music? That made you fall in love was at the horses.

• 32:20Speaker 03

  This is even funnier now. I can't believe it. I haven't thought about this, Avian Somer. When you say record, I went to the Lancaster Public Library.

• 32:30Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 32:31Speaker 03

  And got the record LP. I mean, it's not like this was like the 60s. This was like 1992, but I got the

• 32:39Amy Poehler?

  Hmm.

• 32:40Speaker 03

  The LP record of Ethel Merman singing Annie Get Your Gun.

• 32:47Amy Poehler?

  Wow.

• 32:47Speaker 03

  And I would play the record of Annie Get Your Gun over and over again. And we had a record player in my house growing up and like a giant computer. Remember like the early computers?

• 33:00Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 33:01Speaker 03

  And like a hand thing that was like doing the video games. And I would be playing a like very basic video game and blasting Ethel Merman singing.

• 33:11Amy Poehler?

  Do you remember what like a young, how a young boy discovered Ethel Merman? It's amazing. Who, how did you find out about her?

• 33:23Speaker 03

  They took us to see the high school play.

• 33:26Amy Poehler?

  There you go.

• 33:26Speaker 03

  Of Annie Get Your Gun.

• 33:27Amy Poehler?

  There you go.

• 33:28Speaker 03

  And I was like, when it got to intermission.

• 33:30Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 33:31Speaker 03

  And they were like, okay, now we're gonna go to the bathroom and then we're gonna come back. I was like, there's more? After that, there's, we're gonna come back and it's gonna happen again?

• 33:41Amy Poehler?

  Hmm.

• 33:42Speaker 03

  There's gonna be more story? I was so excited.

• 33:45Amy Poehler?

  Did you ever go into New York when you were a kid and see a show?

• 33:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, I went. That was, the Annie Get Your Gun moment happened when I was in like 4th grade. And that's when I went to the library, then I got the record and was obsessed. And then my, my mom started taking me on bus trips to see Broadway shows. And that was like 5th grade, 6th grade, middle school. Then I started going to.

• 34:05Amy Poehler?

  What did you see back then?

• 34:06Speaker 03

  I saw Beauty and the Beast. I saw Grease. I saw Annie Get Your Gun with Bernadette Peters, which I was like losing my mind for. I saw, in high school, I saw Thoroughly Modern Millie six times. Obsessed.

• 34:21Amy Poehler?

  You were obsessed with Sutton Foster.

• 34:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, obsessed. Obsessed with her, yeah.

• 34:26Amy Poehler?

  What was it about her that you loved?

• 34:28Speaker 03

  She would like.

• 34:29Amy Poehler?

  That spoke to you?

• 34:32Speaker 03

  She onstage, well onstage is a couple of things. She would like be right here.

• 34:39Amy Poehler?

  Mm hmm.

• 34:40Speaker 03

  There was a level of presence about her that was so magnetic and I couldn't like stop looking at her. When she wasn't speaking in scenes, I would be staring at Sutton because she felt so alive. And then she had been the understudy in that show, out of town and replaced and kind of was like pushed out into the front to take on that role in which she was like 28 years old. And there was almost like, like when it's really hot, when it's really hot and you're driving and you see those waves of heat coming off the road. Do you know that? When you're like in the car and you're like, whoa, it's so hot that you can see the air is like that was what was coming off of her body.

• 35:25Amy Poehler?

  Hmm.

• 35:26Speaker 03

  When I, when I, in my experience and my memory of watching her.

• 35:29Amy Poehler?

  Wow.

• 35:30Speaker 03

  It was like heat was coming off of her.

• 35:32Amy Poehler?

  And you were still in high school. You would, you, did you know you were going to be an actor? Did you know? Did you have a sense that you were gonna move to New York and be an actor at that point?

• 35:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, once I was in high school, there, there was two community theaters in my hometown. The Fulton Theater and the Everett Performing Arts Center. They're both still there. And at the Fulton Theater, I was meeting actors that they hired from New York to play the leads.

• 35:56Amy Poehler?

  Oh, wow.

• 35:57Speaker 03

  And I would like, I was obsessed with all of them. One of them is in Just in Time.

• 36:01Amy Poehler?

  Whoa.

• 36:02Speaker 03

  A woman named Terry Kelly, who was the lead of the show in 2001 at the Fulton, is now one of our amazing swings in Just in Time. So we have a full circle moment there. But yeah, I, I started to dream about moving to New York. That's when I learned that you could go to open calls. And I did that my senior year of high school. I went to like an open call for the Sound of Music Tour and got it and went on the road and then moved to New York.

• 36:23Amy Poehler?

  And we were, you, you basically told your parents, I'm not going to college.

• 36:27Speaker 03

  They really, they said, if you want to go to college, we will find a way to pay for this for you.

• 36:34Amy Poehler?

  Hmm.

• 36:34Speaker 03

  But it's so expensive and like, are you sure you want to major in theater?

• 36:39Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 36:39Speaker 03

  Cause what's that gonna get you at the end of four years, all this money? And I was like, I, it's my passion. It's what I want to do. And my dad, I remember like a late night with my dad, sitting in his chair and he was like. If this is really what you want to do, we'll figure it out. And I was like, okay, thanks, Ted. But then I went to New York and auditioned for this tour and got it. And I went on the road and I deferred my admission from college. And I made $10,000 in the year of working on this non-union tour. Carnegie Mellon at that time was $40,000 a year. That's where I deferred my admission. And I was like, I'll never be able to pay this off.

• 37:21Speaker 03

  And my parents were like, right, take your money. Go to New York.

• 37:25Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 37:26Speaker 03

  See if it works out. If it doesn't work out.

• 37:28Amy Poehler?

  Amazing.

• 37:28Speaker 03

  Come back and go to college for something else. So that was the plan.

• 37:32Amy Poehler?

  And then 21 years old, you get nominated for a Tony. 21. I mean, Spring Awakening.

• 37:45Amy Poehler?

  I'm feeling Dorothy. I'm feeling Dorothy. I mean, that musical, I saw you in that musical. Saw The Ridge. Come on, so amazing. So, I mean, an original musical that's so successful that at that age. I mean, I guess my question to you is like, now you've got some time, right? Now, and you did the documentary, you produced a documentary.

• 38:11Speaker 03

  Wow, you really know your stuff, Amy.

• 38:13Amy Poehler?

  I try my best.

• 38:14Speaker 03

  You're such a hard worker.

• 38:15Amy Poehler?

  But I mean, you're like looping back around it now. So you've got, now you've been able to look back.

• 38:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 38:21Amy Poehler?

  Looking back now at that, at that boy. Like, what, what do you take away from that moment now? Like with distance and time, what are you so grateful for about that moment?

• 38:33Speaker 03

  Oh, my God. It was like getting picked up and put somewhere else. It was like the claw coming and just like.

• 38:47Amy Poehler?

  That's a good way to think about it.

• 38:48Speaker 03

  The fate of it was like Thoroughly Modern Millie, which I had seen six times. The director of Spring Awakening is Michael Mayer, the director of Thoroughly Modern Millie.

• 38:57Amy Poehler?

  Wow.

• 38:58Speaker 03

  Like, I.

• 39:03Speaker 03

  It was a combination of feeling like I got picked up and put somewhere. And I remember auditioning for it. And I remember calling my dad on the phone the night before the callback and saying, "I can't do this right now, but I know that I could do it if they gave me the chance."

• 39:24Amy Poehler?

  Why are you thinking you couldn't do it?

• 39:28Speaker 03

  Because I knew I, like, my talent was not, I just like, I didn't really have the proper, like, gifts, like this, my singing, I didn't have my singing together, but I had this like, primal thing down in my like gut that was like, I have to play this role. And they let me do it. And it was like, so then this thing in me got to like, it's like those opportunities. Like, you get that opportunity, and especially with theater, because it's almost religious because you're repeating. And when you repeat things over and over again, it can change you from the inside out.

• 40:09Speaker 03

  And I've, like, like, made me, it like, taught me how to act and taught me how to sing. And there was, and I was in the closet during that whole show. And I had my roommate, Cody, that was my boyfriend. And when I left that show, I came out of the closet a month later because this, this like rebel that was this character, this person that didn't care, didn't let the world define him, this was what I was playing. Like you said, I'm a people pleaser. I'm like, prioritizing niceness, prioritizing, like, making sure everybody feels good.

• 40:54Speaker 03

  And coming out felt like that would create a dissonance. And it was really hard for me to do that.

• 41:01Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 41:01Speaker 03

  And that, playing the role in that show, allowed me to grow the muscle to be able to do that.

• 41:08Amy Poehler?

  So cool.

• 41:08Speaker 03

  So cool.

• 41:09Amy Poehler?

  And you put that in such a beautiful way. I think people often underestimate that sometimes the struggle to live authentically doesn't have as much to do with how you feel about yourself as it does in the worry of how it will change the temperature in the room, like, how it will change the dynamic in the family, how it will make other people feel. It's often like, Told to like an inner struggle when sometimes the struggle is really about how will other people change.

• 41:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 41:38Amy Poehler?

  Like how will they feel?

• 41:40Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 41:40Amy Poehler?

  And were your, how, how did your family feel? How did they, how did, were they surprised?

• 41:50Speaker 03

  Cut to.

• 41:53Speaker 03

  Me screaming as Dorothy.

• 41:55Amy Poehler?

  And Wade was like, well.

• 41:57Speaker 03

  My minute at Grandma's like, who is that little girl in the, in the, in the Wizard of Oz? They're like, that was Jonathan.

• 42:04Amy Poehler?

  But were they, were they surprised? I mean, like.

• 42:07Speaker 03

  My dad was surprised. My brother was surprised. My bro, I told my brother first.

• 42:11Amy Poehler?

  Oh, that's nice.

• 42:12Speaker 03

  And he was like, what? He was surprised.

• 42:15Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 42:16Speaker 03

  Which like, yeah, my mom said that she kind of knew. It was, it was like complicated and, and cut to like, whatever, two or three Christmases later and they're handing presents to my boyfriend that's home for the holidays. So it like, very quickly, it took a minute for them to digest it all.

• 42:39Amy Poehler?

  Sure.

• 42:40Speaker 03

  And then ultimately it's been great.

• 42:43Amy Poehler?

  Yeah. Amazing. So, so much happening in your twenties, like so much. And then you go on Glee, which is this insanely popular show with your buddy Leah. And like you just, you're just, you're just, everything is happening really fast.

• 42:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 42:58Amy Poehler?

  It feels like that when I look at your stuff, like that, that your twenties is just like, things are really moving and chugging along and you're just working like crazy and being like a New York kid.

• 43:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 43:08Amy Poehler?

  Yeah. Because you have a quality about you that's very young. You've been told that, I'm sure.

• 43:14Speaker 03

  I feel it.

• 43:15Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 43:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, I feel eternally young in a certain way. I'm, I'm very like excitable.

• 43:21Amy Poehler?

  Do you have an age you feel like you are? Like, do you know what I mean? Like that you relate to?

• 43:26Speaker 03

  Right now I feel about 15.

• 43:27Amy Poehler?

  Hmm.

• 43:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, I feel, I.

• 43:31Amy Poehler?

  You're just picking people up left and right.

• 43:33Speaker 03

  Picking you up.

• 43:34Amy Poehler?

  Drinking black coffee.

• 43:35Speaker 03

  I feel like, I feel like we're on the like high school new, like.

• 43:39Amy Poehler?

  We're on the high school news.

• 43:42Speaker 03

  Remember? I'm like, you'd be like.

• 43:45Amy Poehler?

  Wow, you know what? I'm gonna say it's the setup of this is very high school news. I'm having like a, I'm having a hot flash right now.

• 43:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's giving high school news station.

• 43:54Amy Poehler?

  It is very high.

• 43:55Speaker 03

  Yeah, we're on the morning announcements.

• 43:58Amy Poehler?

  We, both of us would have definitely done morning announcements.

• 44:01Speaker 03

  For?

• 44:02Amy Poehler?

  My dream.

• 44:03Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 44:04Amy Poehler?

  My dream. I would have had a big crush on you and people would have been like-

• 44:07Speaker 03

  I would have been just following your Dorothy lead.

• 44:09Amy Poehler?

  And people would have been like, Jonathan does not have a crush on you. Okay? You're not his type.

• 44:16Amy Poehler?

  They'd be like, I don't know, I think I can get him. I think I can win him over.

• 44:23Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. It would have been totally us on the news.

• 44:26Amy Poehler?

  Then you're on Looking, which is his first show on HBO to feature a gay man as the lead?

• 44:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 44:34Amy Poehler?

  Is that real?

• 44:34Speaker 03

  Is that real? Is that right?

• 44:36Amy Poehler?

  I don't know. I saw it on the internet, but who knows? We don't have, we don't have time to figure that out. But incredible. Like, but that's a big jump to be coming out and a few years later, playing like a really fully realized, sophisticated, single man, looking for love. That's a big jump.

• 44:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, it was, it was like I, I, um, I'm really riding the wave here of, of life and of, of progress.

• 45:00Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 45:00Speaker 03

  And when they, they initially like sent me that audition, I said no. I felt scared to be gay on a TV show. One thing to be out publicly and another thing to be like, like eating ass on TV.

• 45:19Amy Poehler?

  Only in films.

• 45:23Speaker 03

  It's like, I'm gay. And then, and then it's like, okay, Groff, like, we get it. Like, they're seeing me in different positions and like-

• 45:29Amy Poehler?

  But I mean, you're actually bringing up a really-

• 45:33Amy Poehler?

  You bring up a good point, which is, it's, it's very hard to do intimate scenes no matter what. To be-

• 45:41Speaker 03

  But it's funny, cause-

• 45:43Amy Poehler?

  You didn't care.

• 45:44Speaker 03

  No. In Spring and Awakening, I was like, let's go.

• 45:47Amy Poehler?

  That's true. You already did that. You already ate ass in Spring and Awakening. In a different way.

• 45:53Speaker 03

  In a different way. I felt a kind of like, um, safety with women. Because they didn't feel like there was as much at stake and we could really like, go for it. It felt like, in some ways, like, it felt like, back then, like, what I wished I was? Like, wishing I wasn't gay, wishing I was straight, and it was like, this is who I wish I could be. It felt like dreaming, like, changing who I was, like a fantasy of what I wished I could be. But then, when they send me these scripts, and it's actually how I am, it then does become a little bit scary. But I'd seen Andrew Haig, when he became attached as the director, I'd seen his film

• 46:38Speaker 03

  Weekend at the IFC on Sixth Avenue, and I was like, a wreck, like crying in that movie theater, because I'd never seen something that felt so real. And so, when he became attached as the director, then, I was like, no brainer, yes, I want to do this, I want to work with this man, and that, the way that he tells those stories, meant so much to me in that movie, and I want to do this with him. But at the audition, I was shaking, and I felt sort of like Sutton, when I'm talking about the heat coming off of the body, my whole body went hot, and I went, I blush, I was like blushing, and it was like Spring Awakening, a, another role that I was like,

• 47:21Speaker 03

  almost like a ring of fire birth into a new version of self, like, therapy.

• 47:26Amy Poehler?

  Like a somatic exorcism, and you knew it was right because you were feeling it so big.

• 47:32Speaker 03

  Yes, and they asked me to be in the, to be the grand marshal of the gay pride parade. I told my parents, when I came out, like, five years before, I was like, hi, uh, so Cody is not my roommate, Cody's my boyfriend, and I'm gay, but like, I'm not gonna like, be in a parade.

• 47:53Speaker 03

  That's what I said when I came out. I was so still full of shame. I was like, I'm not, but listen, like, I'm not holding the flag. I'm not like the cutscene and eating ass on television. And then ultimately on grand marshaling the New York like with a sash, a rainbow sash, literally like elbow, elbow, wrist, wrist.

• 48:15Speaker 03

  And I felt scared. I still felt scared back then. I was like, this feels like right. It feels like the right thing to do, but I'm like.

• 48:25Amy Poehler?

  Dorothy, you were like Dorothy.

• 48:27Speaker 03

  Screaming as I'm getting pushed, what, pushed off a cliff?

• 48:30Amy Poehler?

  This is an amazing theme I'm realizing about you, which is really amazing is that you, and I, I think it may also just come from like familial unconditional love, which I'm learning more and more, like when artists have it, they can take big chances.

• 48:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 48:44Amy Poehler?

  You took, you take a lot of chances when you're like, holy shit.

• 48:46Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 48:47Amy Poehler?

  You do, you do it though.

• 48:49Speaker 03

  Yes, yes. I think I'm a little drawn to it.

• 48:52Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 48:53Speaker 03

  I must be like magnetized to it. And like you said, unconditional love, I think you're right.

• 48:57Amy Poehler?

  There's a little bit of a thing where like you, I'll speak for myself too, coming from that background where like I, I don't want to bypass the fact that there's a safety element that I had in my, in my youth that allows me to do that now.

• 49:11Speaker 03

  Talk about it, Amy.

• 49:12Amy Poehler?

  Because I like the, I, I, I think that there's, you cannot discount that feeling that if you had a safe home in your professional life or your creative life, you, you just feel sometimes like emboldened to take these chances when they're given to you.

• 49:26Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 49:27Amy Poehler?

  And that's definitely what you did because it is, it is like you're just, your career is just like, yeah, let's try this, let's do this. And then looking happens and then it, it gets canceled, bummer, but not really a bummer.

• 49:42Amy Poehler?

  Because all of a sudden. Guess who's available for Hamilton? Guess who's tech avail for Hamilton? Jonathan Groff.

• 49:53Speaker 03

  Another Fear Factor thing, though, of like, Brian Darcy James originated that role off Broadway. And then he, his show Something Rotten, got fast-tracked to Broadway, unexpected, while they were in rehearsal for the public theater. And I get a text from Lynn, who I had become friends with through the years, being like, hey, Brian has to bail right after opening. Will you come in off Broadway and do this for two months?

• 50:17Amy Poehler?

  Wow.

• 50:18Speaker 03

  For the last two months of the off-Broadway run? And he was like, it's basically just one song, and it's not a lot of moves, and you'll be great. And I was like, okay.

• 50:27Amy Poehler?

  Wow.

• 50:27Speaker 03

  And I said yes without hearing it, knowing anything about it. They sent me the song. I learned the song from like a piano thing. And then I saw it and went in two days later. I was in L.A. at the time. And so I didn't know I had to have a British accent.

• 50:44Amy Poehler?

  And did you ever? No, I'm kidding.

• 50:47Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 50:48Amy Poehler?

  I mean, your accent is perfect.

• 50:50Speaker 03

  No, but yes, drag me, but you're right.

• 50:52Amy Poehler?

  No, I'm not dragging. Not dragging.

• 50:55Speaker 03

  Drag.

• 50:55Amy Poehler?

  It's its own, it's its own, like, your accent is its own, it's delicious. When you say "bake",

• 51:06Amy Poehler?

  you'll be baked. It's incredible. Where did you come up with that accent?

• 51:13Speaker 03

  When I went on the first day off-Broadway, it looked like I had won a contest to be in Hamilton because I had no sense of character. I had no, they were like, you have to do like a British accent. I was like, but what? Like, everyone's black. Like, I don't understand why I have to do a British accent.

• 51:29Amy Poehler?

  No, you're right. No one's historically accurate, except for you.

• 51:34Speaker 03

  Do a British accent? And then I saw it, and I was like, oh, I get it. I'm like, the one thing, okay.

• 51:39Amy Poehler?

  And the choice of your voice is, your voice is incredible in it.

• 51:43Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 51:44Amy Poehler?

  I love your accent.

• 51:44Speaker 03

  So then, thank you. So then I, like, Pippa was like, you could, there's this, the woman at Juilliard that can help you. So she's, I was like, what?

• 51:54Amy Poehler?

  You're like, oh, no.

• 51:55Speaker 03

  But here's the lesson I learned, too. When I went on and I had no character at all, I had no accent. I was just trying to remember the words and the notes, and then walk off. It was like, they put me in a king thing, and I walked out there, and I did what I could remember, and then they pulled me off. But the song killed.

• 52:10Amy Poehler?

  I mean, one could even say stole the show.

• 52:14Speaker 03

  But I was like, oh, I don't have to do anything. I came out here, I have no idea what I'm doing.

• 52:19Amy Poehler?

  Such a funny song.

• 52:19Speaker 03

  This writing is so genius.

• 52:22Amy Poehler?

  And the device, sorry to interrupt, the device of you being the lover, the jilted lover saying you'll be back is such a funny device for.

• 52:36Speaker 03

  It's so surprising.

• 52:37Amy Poehler?

  It is, it's so funny.

• 52:39Speaker 03

  It's like the first time people aren't rapping. So all the white people in the audience are like, oh.

• 52:48Amy Poehler?

  They're like, now this is how I remember. This is how I remember Broadway.

• 52:54Amy Poehler?

  Right. It's so true. And it is this great record scratch moment in the show, which, you know, look, we could talk forever about Hamilton. It's beyond genius in every way. But it is so funny because it reminds you for just a second of how things used to be. Vocally, lyrically, stylistically.

• 53:19Speaker 03

  On so many levels.

• 53:20Amy Poehler?

  Tramiturgically.

• 53:21Speaker 03

  Yes, it's hitting on so many levels. And that like lesson of like, oh, I have no idea what I'm doing, but this song is killing was then when I was, when then for the next two months, when I started to learn the very specific upper whatever accent. And I was watching all the, I'm also so different than Brian Darcy James. I was watching these clips of Barbra Streisand from her TV special, My Name Is Barbara. And I was watching her come out on stage and like basically like fuck herself with her own voice, like so. So enjoy, so small, but like enjoying every little, I was like, okay.

• 54:05Speaker 03

  And then I started to build the character. But it was, I'd never built a character in front of an audience in a show before.

• 54:12Amy Poehler?

  Wow.

• 54:13Speaker 03

  And so that was also a bit of like getting pushed out there. And because the show was so great, I was able to just play catch up because you can be completely.

• 54:26Speaker 03

  Unaware of what you're doing, but sing that song and it nails it.

• 54:30Amy Poehler?

  And you were like seducing us. You're very seductive and you're very laconic as that character is.

• 54:36Speaker 03

  Laconic. Talk about laconic. Tell me that one.

• 54:40Amy Poehler?

  I believe it means sleepy, like, like, just like not thirsty. I have so many questions about backstage at Hamilton.

• 54:53Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 54:55Amy Poehler?

  Number one, were you allowed to come late?

• 55:00Speaker 03

  Did I come late or was I allowed to?

• 55:03Amy Poehler?

  Because you were, you had about an hour before you were on, right?

• 55:06Speaker 03

  I had, no, I was on in the first like 20 minutes, 25 minutes.

• 55:10Amy Poehler?

  And then you have a big break.

• 55:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 55:13Amy Poehler?

  How long? An hour?

• 55:14Speaker 03

  Oh, my God. So much time.

• 55:18Amy Poehler?

  What do you do during that time?

• 55:19Speaker 03

  Such a good question. Okay, so Bobby Darin, I am offstage for 45 seconds in the, in the whatever two plus hour thing. And this is my preferred, I love being out there.

• 55:34Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 55:34Speaker 03

  When we walked into the dressing room at the Richard Rogers in tech for Hamilton, and Lynn and I were sharing a dressing room space, I was like, whatever Idina Menzel had done the show right before, if then, and I was, my dressing room was Idina's waiting room. And it was like a little closet. And I was like, oh, this is where I live.

• 55:55Amy Poehler?

  Mm-hmm.

• 55:55Speaker 03

  I'm on stage for nine minutes, but this is where I live. And I started to get claustrophobic when I walked in of like, what am I gonna do back here?

• 56:07Speaker 03

  And I read so many books.

• 56:09Amy Poehler?

  You couldn't leave the building?

• 56:12Speaker 03

  No, because you're in the white wig and the...

• 56:14Amy Poehler?

  You never ran out to get something and took the wig off?

• 56:18Speaker 03

  I never ran out to get something.

• 56:20Amy Poehler?

  You're such a good boy.

• 56:21Speaker 03

  I mean, it's so like boring.

• 56:22Amy Poehler?

  Because those, you did a lot of performances.

• 56:25Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 56:26Amy Poehler?

  And I used to think about you backstage and be like, what are, what's he doing back there?

• 56:30Speaker 03

  I ended up really learning how to embrace, well, I would have visitations from the cast.

• 56:37Amy Poehler?

  Oh, fun.

• 56:37Speaker 03

  So that there would be like nightly visitations, which is great, and kind of like free hang time, which was, it was like, I could have like done this.

• 56:45Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 56:45Speaker 03

  And like we could have done, yeah.

• 56:47Amy Poehler?

  Done school announcements, done the morning announcements.

• 56:50Speaker 03

  It really feels like we're on the morning.

• 56:52Amy Poehler?

  It really does.

• 56:54Speaker 03

  But then I started reading all the books that I wanted to read. I started to just like boom, boom, boom, boom, knock through them all. And it became a very productive time.

• 57:03Amy Poehler?

  Cool. Very cool.

• 57:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 57:06Amy Poehler?

  And then you had to come back out. So that must have also been like, did you ever miss a cue?

• 57:13Speaker 03

  Never missed a cue. I can't believe I never missed a cue.

• 57:15Amy Poehler?

  I know, because it's hard when you, I mean, I know you work with total professionals who will make sure that you don't miss a cue. I'm sure like all the stage managers are like, um, yeah, you didn't miss a cue because I told you. 10 minutes, babe.

• 57:27Speaker 03

  Yes, exactly.

• 57:28Amy Poehler?

  But like, but the, but the, when you have that long stretch, it's hard to get, it's just like having one or two lines in a sketch, like you really can screw it up.

• 57:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, right.

• 57:36Amy Poehler?

  Yes.

• 57:37Speaker 03

  It's like a little sprint. And I also find always having one or two lines to me is the hardest thing. Do you find that?

• 57:42Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 57:42Speaker 03

  Coming in, killing and leaving.

• 57:44Amy Poehler?

  Yes.

• 57:44Speaker 03

  Cold, coming in cold.

• 57:45Amy Poehler?

  Yes.

• 57:46Speaker 03

  I would have five Altoids in my mouth when I came on stage because it was like to open up my.

• 57:52Amy Poehler?

  Is that what else they open up your?

• 57:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's, I've now moved on to sugar free black cherry halls. I have one of those in my mouth for the entire show. Since I did Little Shop in 2019, that's my new thing. But in.

• 58:06Amy Poehler?

  You're not afraid it's gonna pop out or shoot out?

• 58:09Speaker 03

  You know, it's never shot out until like five days ago.

• 58:11Amy Poehler?

  It did?

• 58:12Speaker 03

  Popped out during Splish Splash and I was like, I've lost a tooth. But the.

• 58:19Speaker 03

  It bounced into the audience.

• 58:20Amy Poehler?

  That's a really good Broadway story. It popped out during Splish Splash. And it's like, thank God it was just your Altoid.

• 58:26Speaker 03

  Bing bang, I saw the whole gang.

• 58:30Speaker 03

  It came right out and went.

• 58:33Amy Poehler?

  Why did he get fired? It popped out during Splish Splash and it wasn't supposed to.

• 58:36Speaker 03

  I mean, there are.

• 58:37Amy Poehler?

  It popped it out, yeah, it popped it out during Splish.

• 58:42Amy Poehler?

  I mean, I'm projecting because I used, I used to have a ti- I don't know if you, did you ever have nightmares when, have you ever had Broadway nightmares? Where you miss, you're late, or like a stress dream?

• 58:53Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, of course.

• 58:55Amy Poehler?

  I used to have stress dreams all the time that there was a ho- there was like a staircase at As Now We Get to Kind of Run Down to Get to, to the studio. That I was running down and I was hearing my cue.

• 59:06Speaker 03

  Oh, that's gonna give me nightmares tonight.

• 59:08Amy Poehler?

  Okay, so sorry. Yeah, but that I was missing a cue, missing a cue. And those, those used to give me like tor- and, and to add to it, everyone I cared about and whose opinion I cared about would be on the stairs being like, you're late, you missed it.

• 59:22Speaker 03

  We're not mad, we're just like surprised.

• 59:24Amy Poehler?

  Yeah, we're surprised.

• 59:27Speaker 03

  We just, just can't believe Amy, like of all people, missed the cue, yeah.

• 59:30Amy Poehler?

  I guess it's the disrespect for me.

• 59:32Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 59:33Amy Poehler?

  And then, let's talk about Merrily, if we can.

• 59:36Speaker 03

  Of course.

• 59:36Amy Poehler?

  That experience must have been just so fulfilling in every way, because to your point of like being, turning 40, the show is all about the beginnings and middle and ends of things and how life feels like it's this shuffle of all of those things. And the friendships we make along the way, and here you are, like now, you know, almost a 20-year vet in the business when you're doing that show. And I know how much Sondheim means to you.

• 1:00:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, smells like horse.

• 1:00:08Amy Poehler?

  Yeah, he smells like horse. He helps you like,

• 1:00:11Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:00:12Amy Poehler?

  when you were scared of those horses. He probably has written a song about horses. I'm sure there's, is there a lyric?

• 1:00:17Speaker 03

  There's a reference to horse racing in Bobby and Jackie and Jack, one of the songs in Merrily We Roll Along. There's a famous horse that's quoted in that song.

• 1:00:27Speaker 03

  But yeah, the, it was so crazy because I, I moved to New York in 2004.

• 1:00:34Speaker 03

  We did that show in 2024, so exactly 20 years to the year. It's about, it takes place exactly over 20 years, and it's about looking back. In Maria Friedman, our incredible director's vision and staging of the show at the very beginning, Dan comes out over here, "How did you get to be here? What was the moment?" Lindsay comes out over here, over the shoulders of Frank, the character I played. "How did you get to be here? What was the moment?" In the exact positions 15 years earlier, John Gallagher Jr. stood here as a ghost in Spring Awakening, and Lea Michele stood over this shoulder. Lindsay Mendez, L.M., Lea Michele, L.M., the same initials of the actresses standing

• 1:01:18Speaker 03

  on this side of the thing. Talk about Sense of Memory. I had crazy things come up on that one. There would be moments where I, because also, it was the most, I think, well, he said, sign of it was the most autobiographical thing he ever wrote. He said that about the song "Opening Doors," but I have a feeling, from all the people that came through to see the show, that we could talk to after, and people that knew him, and Hal Prince and Mary Rogers, that this was about him and his two friends, and these relationships that fracture over time, and the heartbreak and the disappointment.

• 1:01:59Speaker 03

  And I would be saying a line, I would be saying a line to Lindsay on stage, and I would say it, and it would come out, and it would feel like Frank talking to the character of Mary, it would feel like Steve talking to Mary Rogers, it would feel like Jonathan talking to Lindsay in this like crazy, like therapeutic exorcism. Yeah, it was wild.

• 1:02:25Amy Poehler?

  So cool.

• 1:02:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:02:27Amy Poehler?

  Amazing. And then to like have that be so. Celebrated for it to really feel like people were ready for it when, when, because for people who don't know this, the, the history of that show is it really was ahead of its time and it wasn't received the way it was, it should have been received and it kind of like needed to just marinate for some reason and much like the show itself, like it needs time. So the show needed time and then it came back out and it was celebrated and the way it was celebrated, it must have been so, so satisfying. It must have just been so satisfying.

• 1:03:01Speaker 03

  It was every dream I ever had to come true.

• 1:03:03Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:03Speaker 03

  And then we made this movie of it.

• 1:03:05Amy Poehler?

  Yes.

• 1:03:05Speaker 03

  And that I went on Monday night last week to go see it, just in a normal movie theater. And I was like weeping, just like, I cannot believe this, cannot believe how Maria, the director, directed it so beautifully for film and, and it's like the hybrid between a like filming of a theater piece and a movie. Like what she made is so unique and special. And feeling the audience in the movie theater get the story and the idea that this was his big flop of his career and apparently his big heartbreak, Stephen Sondheim and Hal Prince.

• 1:03:45Speaker 03

  It was the end for many years of their really fruitful, over a decade long collaboration. That this show is like captured in this way and is playing in movie theaters is like you can't, it's so surreal.

• 1:04:00Amy Poehler?

  Well, it's kind of like why longevity is the goal in work and in life, you know, knock on wood, right? Which is like, if you stick around long enough, like things come back.

• 1:04:14Speaker 03

  Yes. And I, you're exactly right. And I, and this, the ethos too of like, if you make something well

• 1:04:21Amy Poehler?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:04:21Speaker 03

  in the moment.

• 1:04:24Speaker 03

  The faith that what you did in that moment to make it well, and then push that boat out, and then whatever that boat's journey is, is that boat's journey, but that you put the time and attention to detail and the care in the thing that you were making. Merrily is the perfect example of they put their hearts and souls into that, and they pushed out that boat, and it was not received. But because it was crafted so well and such a beautiful piece, 40 years later, you're getting, this boat is coming back around. And because it was, because the people, when they made it in the present moment, took such care, it can exist and have this life. It gives me such faith in, in when we're creating things,

• 1:05:09Speaker 03

  that when, if we do it with the proper intention and with everything we've got, then you just set it free. And if it hits today, we have people from like, Looking, we were canceled after two seasons. People still come up to me and say like, this show changed my life. There's like, if you, if you do something with your whole heart, it can continue to resonate and stand the test of time.

• 1:05:32Amy Poehler?

  So cool. It's like sending out a missive to space and just like it taking that many light years to get there.

• 1:05:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:05:42Amy Poehler?

  Lyrically, what is a lyric for you that like still bubbles in your head that you had to sing? And what is one that was a hard one to get? Like, what was one that always felt like a bit of a hurdle? And what was one that just tickles you still like in your brain?

• 1:06:03Speaker 03

  It's from the song Growing Up, which, which, which the character of Frank sings. So old friends.

• 1:06:09Amy Poehler?

  Yep.

• 1:06:09Speaker 03

  "Don't you see, we can have it all." Moving on, getting out of the past. This is the one for me. You ready?

• 1:06:18Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:20Speaker 03

  Solving dreams, not just trusting them. Taking dreams, readjusting them, growing up, growing up. This idea that you can have these dreams as a kid, and it's not something that you either make happen or you repress, but that you take this dream and you figure out what it was and what it still means to you. Solving dreams, not just trusting them. Taking dreams, readjusting them, growing up?

• 1:06:56Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:56Speaker 03

  Come on!

• 1:06:58Amy Poehler?

  That's major.

• 1:06:59Speaker 03

  It's so good.

• 1:07:00Amy Poehler?

  Yeah, that's so good.

• 1:07:02Speaker 03

  It's about, because there's like an element of like being in relationship to the past,

• 1:07:05Amy Poehler?

  Yes.

• 1:07:06Speaker 03

  but not having it hold you down.

• 1:07:08Amy Poehler?

  Yes.

• 1:07:09Speaker 03

  It would bring up something for me every single night.

• 1:07:11Amy Poehler?

  Ooh, it's so good. And it's also, also kind of the theme of what we've been talking about a little bit today. The idea of if you're open and flexible to readjustment, that is what, like, it's the best you can hope for.

• 1:07:25Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:07:25Amy Poehler?

  Because nothing happens the way it's supposed to, ever.

• 1:07:28Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:07:29Amy Poehler?

  And you have to only just kind of like stay steady and flexible for what's coming.

• 1:07:34Speaker 03

  Yes, it's such a paradox.

• 1:07:35Amy Poehler?

  Yeah, it's so true. And what I love about that too is, is the friendship in that show is, like, helps us solve the dream part, like, the solving of the dream. Like, it's almost like it can't be done alone.

• 1:07:52Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:07:53Amy Poehler?

  And when I, when I wanted to talk to you today, like, one of the things that I wanted to talk to you about today really is about the friendships you have made in the work that you do.

• 1:08:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:08:03Amy Poehler?

  I know it's really important to you.

• 1:08:04Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:08:04Amy Poehler?

  You have really made lifelong friends.

• 1:08:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:08:07Amy Poehler?

  The people that you share the stage with, like, they share your life. Like, they're, you know, you do not leave productions and say like, peace out. You're like, you're deep friends with people for life that you've worked with.

• 1:08:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:08:20Amy Poehler?

  It's really amazing.

• 1:08:21Speaker 03

  Yes, it's interesting because I feel like a little bit that starts from a place. Of like when I was closeted and in high school and in community theater. I wonder if you feel this way too about writing and performing like you go there because you need that intimacy and you can't get it in your real life for whatever reason. And there's a like deep primal need to go and like connect with people. And so that part of me is still alive. Like I can't, even though I think I'm, I came out of the closet, I'm better adjusted in my life. But when I go to work, I don't go to work, I go to live.

• 1:09:06Speaker 03

  And that, and I look at the people that I'm with and it's deep and I, and it's, it's like, it's, it's, uh, it's powerful and it's, and it's profound.

• 1:09:16Amy Poehler?

  Yeah, Lindsay, Daniel, Leah. And can you tell me, can you tell me about Gavin Creel, who I never got to meet? Will you tell me just something about him? Because I love hearing about him.

• 1:09:28Speaker 03

  Oh my God, yeah. Well, he changed my life. He changed my life because, well, okay. Oh my God, I'm going to tell a memory that I have about him.

• 1:09:40Amy Poehler?

  Please. And for people who don't know Gavin's an amazing performer who passed a few years ago? Two year, a year ago?

• 1:09:48Speaker 03

  A year and a month, three, two ago, yeah.

• 1:09:50Amy Poehler?

  A little over a year ago. An incredibly talented performer and a dear, dear, dear friend of yours.

• 1:09:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:09:56Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:57Speaker 03

  I think he would appreciate the story that I'm about to tell.

• 1:10:00Amy Poehler?

  Great.

• 1:10:01Speaker 03

  Gavin, if you don't know Gavin, you have to Google Gavin. Gavin like did a lot of amazing things and is a profound, amazing person. My, the first time I ever met Gavin, I also dated Gavin. We had a whole relationship. He's like what gave me the confidence to come out of the closet. He changed my life. But the first time I ever met him. Was at the stage door of Thoroughly Modern Millie, which he was in opposite Sutton. He played the role of Jimmy. And I would wait at the stage door. I was in high school. And the actors would come out and I was like, I was like crazy.

• 1:10:44Speaker 03

  I just couldn't believe they were real people. Like to see them would give me energy and like get me like amped. I have a crazy story about Matthew Broderick that I'll make it share at some other time. But meeting him at the stage door. But Gavin comes out and signs the program. And I was like, whoa. And then he goes back into the stage door. And then Mark Kudish, who played Trevor Graydon, comes out. And he's signing my program. And Gavin comes back out the stage door with an apple in his mouth. And he walks past Mark Kudish, grabs his ass. And Mark goes like, oh. And looks as Gavin is walking by.

• 1:11:27Speaker 03

  And Gavin just looks at him and winks with the apple still in his mouth.

• 1:11:32Amy Poehler?

  Oh, my God, so hot.

• 1:11:33Speaker 03

  And I was like, I have got to be in the theater. What is this? What is happening here? Where this beautiful man with an apple in his mouth is like tapping the ass of this other man. And they're like, but it's very free. And it doesn't necessarily feel sexual, but there's a subtext of sexualness. And like, I was like, I've got to get into this world. That was the first time I like met Gavin.

• 1:12:00Amy Poehler?

  Oh, just like what an entrance. What a walk on from him.

• 1:12:05Speaker 03

  Totally.

• 1:12:06Amy Poehler?

  And isn't it amazing when people come into your life? Like they just are in your simulation, but you don't know how yet?

• 1:12:12Speaker 03

  Yes, yes.

• 1:12:14Amy Poehler?

  They just walk in and it's like cue the walk on. And it's like, in five years, you two are gonna be together, babe. Like, who knew?

• 1:12:21Speaker 03

  Crazy. And it was like primal. I still couldn't see it, the whole thing playing out.

• 1:12:25Amy Poehler?

  Oh, OK. Thank you for telling me that story and for reminding us about Gavin. And so, speaking of friendships that you made and relationships that you made, we spoke to Gracie Lawrence today. A new friend, in a way, although she said she feels like she's known you forever.

• 1:12:47Speaker 03

  Oh, my gosh.

• 1:12:47Amy Poehler?

  And she, um, you and her were in your show together. You played Bobby Darin, she played Connie Francis. You had to really connect. She's incredibly talented. Like, she told a story about meeting you for the first time. You know what? And it was really like an apple in the mouth story. Like, you came into the room and she felt this energy, like he's, he's, I mean, because that's what I love about you is you are a star.

• 1:13:18Amy Poehler?

  And I love stars.

• 1:13:22Amy Poehler?

  And don't, you're a good boy, you're a nice boy, but you're a star. Don't let anyone tell you different. So.

• 1:13:29Speaker 03

  Oh, you're tickling me so hard.

• 1:13:33Amy Poehler?

  So you had just a moment of like, right? And she has that moment with you and she, and so she had a question she wanted me to ask you, which I, it's a very sweet question. And also, you know, she was like, get ready for some amazing eye contact. She said your eye contact is really great. And it is really great. And I thought I would be overwhelmed by it, but I'm not at all.

• 1:13:54Speaker 03

  No, you're also, your eye contact is also very great.

• 1:13:56Amy Poehler?

  I didn't want to say anything, but I also have good eye contact.

• 1:14:01Amy Poehler?

  And we'll be right back.

• 1:14:05Amy Poehler?

  And make sure you guys, that you get your, your yearbook, the yearbooks are being passed out today. So, I mean, but I don't mind eye contact from the right person. Um, but here, but here's Gracie's question. And it was a really cute question. And she said, like, you know, she said she, she's like, I've never seen him nervous or anxious or rattled. And she said, or frazzled, you know, is the word I think she used. And she said, you know, he has like a Yoda-like calm. And, um, she said, why, why aren't you more scared of things? Have you always been this way? And what if anything scares you now, little bitch? Is what, is what she said. Is what she said, how she said it.

• 1:14:49Speaker 03

  She said, you little bitch.

• 1:14:50Amy Poehler?

  Little bitch.

• 1:14:51Speaker 03

  And it's funny, because Gracie, to me, like, I love, I love her so much. I love her so fucking hard. And to me, like, she has a kind of. Sociopathic calm when she's on stage. And her like, like her, I saw her like in Lawrence at Radio City. And she's like, ah, she's like singing, she's a, she's Tina Turner, basically. She's a rock star. The first thing that's coming up for me, why I giggle a little bit is like, my dad also has fainting goats. On his, on his farm, on the horse farm.

• 1:15:26Amy Poehler?

  Yes.

• 1:15:27Speaker 03

  That freeze and fall over.

• 1:15:28Amy Poehler?

  Yes.

• 1:15:29Speaker 03

  And there's something, and I feel like it's, it's like, it's kind of a, I've used it to my advantage. When something scary happens, I go dead calm.

• 1:15:41Amy Poehler?

  Ooh.

• 1:15:42Speaker 03

  Something scary for me happens.

• 1:15:43Amy Poehler?

  Yes.

• 1:15:44Speaker 03

  I start to just like talk really slowly.

• 1:15:47Amy Poehler?

  Ooh.

• 1:15:47Speaker 03

  And I bring it all the way down. And I just kind of am like, okay. And like, for example, I got sick for the first time. Two weeks ago, doing the show. It was like the 250 whatever performance.

• 1:16:03Amy Poehler?

  You've done that many performances?

• 1:16:05Speaker 03

  And we did the Thanksgiving Day Parade in the morning.

• 1:16:08Amy Poehler?

  Oh, that's right.

• 1:16:10Speaker 03

  On the Thursday.

• 1:16:11Amy Poehler?

  You guys gotta stop. I'm, I'm sorry, that's too much.

• 1:16:15Speaker 03

  And it was like this.

• 1:16:16Amy Poehler?

  I need to talk to Broadway's agent and manager because I, when I see you guys out there in the morning, I'm like, Broadway.

• 1:16:22Speaker 03

  Please file a complaint.

• 1:16:23Amy Poehler?

  Broadway, no more of that.

• 1:16:24Speaker 03

  I've been like.

• 1:16:25Amy Poehler?

  I'm sorry, it's too much work.

• 1:16:27Speaker 03

  It was fun, I was, I was into it.

• 1:16:28Amy Poehler?

  You gotta say that, what are you gonna say?

• 1:16:30Speaker 03

  I'm like a little, let's go.

• 1:16:32Amy Poehler?

  It's morning time, okay, sorry.

• 1:16:34Speaker 03

  Well, but then look what happened, I was like, let's go, I wanna sing live, let's go. We got there, it was freezing. Julia, one of the sirens, it looked like she was Beyonce, the wind, like the wind was coming at us, so we were like.

• 1:16:49Speaker 03

  Next day.

• 1:16:50Amy Poehler?

  And then you got sick.

• 1:16:50Speaker 03

  And then the next day we had a matinee on the Friday, cause it's Thanksgiving week. And I was, I woke up and I was like, huh?

• 1:16:59Amy Poehler?

  Oh no.

• 1:17:01Speaker 03

  I was like, I think I might have to call out of the show for the first time. But it started to come back.

• 1:17:06Amy Poehler?

  250.

• 1:17:07Speaker 03

  And then I say to our music director, this is gonna be raw, I think this might be Rock and Roll Bobby Darren for the weekend, just so you know, cause it's pretty raw. And then I get out there. And I'm kind of feeling myself, I was like, okay, it's kind of coming back. And then I was like, this song, this could be the start of something big. I was like, this could be the start.

• 1:17:31Speaker 03

  And just sand like in the mummy came out of my throat all over. And I was like.

• 1:17:40Speaker 03

  And then I was like. I'm Jonathan, I'll be your Bobby Darin today. And I was like, my voice, gone.

• 1:17:47Amy Poehler?

  Gone.

• 1:17:47Speaker 03

  And I get to answer Gracie's question, to answer Gracie's question. Completely calm.

• 1:17:54Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:55Speaker 03

  And I didn't, he was just like, okay, and now I'm gonna see if it comes back. I'm gonna sing the next song, couldn't sing it. Do the next song, couldn't sing it. Did the next song, couldn't sing it.

• 1:18:09Speaker 03

  The sirens, the girls in the show were like.

• 1:18:12Amy Poehler?

  And the band just started playing.

• 1:18:13Speaker 03

  The band is like. Groff, what's happening? And then I was like, I'm gonna wait till I'm alone on stage, cuz I don't wanna put any of the rest of my castmates through this. And 20 minutes in.

• 1:18:27Speaker 03

  I'm alone and I was like, hi, everyone, this is Jonathan. And I start the show as myself, so it was kind of like, they thought it was part of the show. And I was like, I'm Jonathan and I really wanted to turn it out for you today because it's Thanksgiving week and I know it's really an important time. But I've lost my voice and I'm gonna hurt myself if I continue. Matthew Magnuson is gonna come on stage right now and be Bobby Darin and he's amazing and the show is amazing. And please stay and enjoy the rest of Just in Time without me. And I walked offstage and it was sort of like nightmares, like you're talking about. The idea of losing your voice in a musical on Broadway could be like a nightmare. But I felt I went, I was in shock.

• 1:19:08Amy Poehler?

  But also, may I just say, wisdom, experience, no, just experience, like experience sometimes can just, you know, it's just like.

• 1:19:18Amy Poehler?

  You've just done the show a lot, you've been on stage a lot. For someone else that could have been truly, it would have like, could have taken them down in a way where they'd never recover. And instead you're like, this is one night in 250. And I'm gonna be back here again and I know how this goes and I'm gonna take care of my cast. Like that's what, like it's a very leader mentality.

• 1:19:38Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 1:19:39Amy Poehler?

  And I think you should sue NBC.

• 1:19:42Amy Poehler?

  And you should sue Radio City and you should never, ever.

• 1:19:46Speaker 03

  Sue Macy's.

• 1:19:47Amy Poehler?

  Sue Macy's, sue all of those balloons.

• 1:19:52Amy Poehler?

  Outrageous, they make you do that. Okay, so you have to go. You have to go to your show. But I have one very last question for you, which is, what are you watching, listening to? You said you love your YouTube. Where do you go right now to laugh? I mean, obviously, you're laughing on stage. You're having a good time at night. But what's your laughy place?

• 1:20:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. It's YouTube. I am like, I was like YouTube. I'm not on any social media.

• 1:20:16Amy Poehler?

  Incredible.

• 1:20:17Speaker 03

  And the one like internet thing that I struggle with and addiction to is YouTube. Yeah, and I'm like scrolling and I'm laughing. And even like back in the days of Spring Awakening, I had the like.

• 1:20:31Amy Poehler?

  Even back then?

• 1:20:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:20:33Amy Poehler?

  What were you watching?

• 1:20:35Speaker 03

  I mean, there's.

• 1:20:38Speaker 03

  This is like maybe 16 years ago. Like, they would come over and I would, I would be the one. This was like before the iPhone. It was like when the iPhone came out. But weirdly, even though I'm not on any social media, I was the one that like knew the Youtubes that would.

• 1:20:51Amy Poehler?

  Who was making, what was making you laugh back then?

• 1:20:54Speaker 03

  Like, have you seen Gay Everest?

• 1:20:56Amy Poehler?

  Okay, first of all, let's just prepare ourselves before we watch this. A news blooper?

• 1:21:03Speaker 03

  Is the best.

• 1:21:03Amy Poehler?

  Is the best. Me too. I could watch and have watched compilations of news bloopers forever.

• 1:21:09Speaker 03

  Wait, me too?

• 1:21:10Amy Poehler?

  You know who else loves a news blooper?

• 1:21:12Speaker 03

  Who?

• 1:21:12Amy Poehler?

  Name drop, Paul Rudd, who was on the show. And we watched a lot of news bloopers. And he loves a news blooper. Okay.

• 1:21:19Speaker 03

  They are to me because there's like the pretense of seriousness. It's literally us right now.

• 1:21:24Amy Poehler?

  Right now. It's really us like on the news.

• 1:21:29Amy Poehler?

  We would be in a morning. This is us in a morning show. High school, us, holding together.

• 1:21:34Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:21:35Amy Poehler?

  Liz Kukowski, a writer in SNL, and Emily Spivey used to always laugh and talk about like wanting to write a morning show where they're violently hungover and trying to hold it together.

• 1:21:45Speaker 03

  And that. But I feel like there's also a story somewhere in like, we are, we're a small town news show. And like the gay guy and the female best friend. And now we're on the local news. Like, we've worked our way up to like the big leagues. Like, WGAL is the one in Lancaster.

• 1:22:03Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:04Speaker 03

  And then.

• 1:22:05Amy Poehler?

  WGAL? That's great.

• 1:22:07Speaker 03

  It's so good.

• 1:22:08Amy Poehler?

  Gal?

• 1:22:12Speaker 03

  Wait, why did I never put together it's W Gal?

• 1:22:15Amy Poehler?

  W Gal? That's great, W G A L.

• 1:22:18Speaker 03

  And then they have a huge falling out. And now we're on this, like, the idea of, like, holding the tension?

• 1:22:23Amy Poehler?

  Ugh.

• 1:22:23Speaker 03

  Right? Suddenly, he's gay?

• 1:22:26Amy Poehler?

  Move over, morning show.

• 1:22:29Speaker 08

  Right after the break, we're gonna interview Eric Wytenmayer, who climbed the highest mountain in the world, Mount Everest. But, he's gay. I mean, he's gay, excuse me, he's blind.

• 1:22:44Speaker 03

  It's her, you know what it is? It's like, but, he's gay, I mean, he's gay, excuse me. I mean, he's gay, excuse me, that's my favorite part.

• 1:22:55Speaker 03

  But.

• 1:22:55Amy Poehler?

  Yeah, you're right.

• 1:22:56Speaker 03

  He's gay, I mean, he's gay, excuse me. He's blind!

• 1:23:02Amy Poehler?

  Which begs the question, it's like a Sondheim lyric. Which begs the question, is he gay?

• 1:23:08Speaker 03

  So, there's another video on there of him reacting.

• 1:23:12Speaker 03

  And being like, what?

• 1:23:15Speaker 03

  He's not gay, I've looked it up.

• 1:23:16Amy Poehler?

  Okay, okay, because why does she say it twice?

• 1:23:19Speaker 03

  But if I could say something now, I'd love to, like, publicly ask a question.

• 1:23:23Amy Poehler?

  Yeah, we can, you know what? Actually, no one's ever publicly asked a question after being asked a question, so now's the time.

• 1:23:29Speaker 03

  I'd like to publicly ask a question, which is another YouTube I love, which is the Grape Lady.

• 1:23:32Amy Poehler?

  Yeah. Insane.

• 1:23:35Speaker 03

  I wanna know if she's okay.

• 1:23:37Amy Poehler?

  Okay, so if someone could get, let us know if the lady who was stomping grapes, who fell down and really, and really, it sounds like really hurt herself.

• 1:23:46Speaker 03

  She took a hard fall off that.

• 1:23:50Speaker 03

  Hope she's okay, well, yow! We're gonna make sure she is.

• 1:23:56Amy Poehler?

  And they're laughing, yow!

• 1:23:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:23:58Amy Poehler?

  Yow!

• 1:23:58Speaker 03

  She took a hard fall off that, yeah.

• 1:24:03Speaker 03

  Hope she's okay.

• 1:24:05Amy Poehler?

  Jonathan Groff.

• 1:24:06Speaker 03

  Oh, my god, he's a polar.

• 1:24:08Amy Poehler?

  I loved our time together. Friends for life, I hope.

• 1:24:11Speaker 03

  Friends for life, let's go.

• 1:24:12Amy Poehler?

  At the very least, co-host.

• 1:24:14Speaker 03

  Yes, of the morning news.

• 1:24:19Amy Poehler?

  Oh, thank you so much, Jonathan Groff. That was so fun. We knew it would be. What a hang. What a doll. Ah, in love. What a dreamboat. So for this polar plunge, I guess I just wanted to talk about Sondheim for a second because he is so incredible and his work is so incredible. And there's a lot of people that come through this, this studio talking about him. And I would just like to say that the thing I love the most about Stephen Sondheim is how his music feels like a song rolling down a hill. Like it's, it's never really starting. It's always kind of going, but it's not.

• 1:25:00Amy Poehler?

  It's just kind of talking and then it's going and the song is starting and it's starting this way and it's going over here. But don't forget it started over there and it's about to start, but it's not starting yet. And we're going over. So I just, I love, I love the rhythm of it and it's so hard to sing and I'm so glad I don't have to sing it. So Stephen Sondheim, thank you for your work and your genius. Thank you, Jonathan Groff, for joining us. Thank you for listening always to Good Hang. Have a great day, week, month, and see you soon. Bye. You've been listening to Good Hang. The executive producers for this show are Bill Simmons, Jenna Weiss-Berman, and me, Amy Poehler.

• 1:25:44Amy Poehler?

  The show is produced by The Ringer and Paperkite. For The Ringer, production by Jack Wilson, Kat Spillane, Kaia McMullin, and Aleia Zanarez. For Paperkite, production by Sam Green, Joel Lovell, and Jenna Weiss-Berman. Original music by Amy Miles.

• 1:26:03Amy Poehler?

  This episode is brought to you by Caesar. Dog parents, what do you have on the menu tonight? If you're looking to serve your favorite four-legged friend high-quality wet dog food they'll be genuinely excited about, we say, just eat Caesar. Whether it's a protein-rich beef recipe on Monday or a savory chicken and vegetable dinner on Wednesday, Caesar offers a variety of delicious meals made with freshly crafted Slow-cooked ingredients, all designed to support your dog's everyday nutrition without compromise. That's real variety, real ingredients, and real excitement at mealtime. So if you're looking to serve a meal your dog actually looks forward to every single day, they should totally just eat Caesar. Learn more at Caesar.com. Your dog will thank you.

• 1:26:48Amy Poehler?

  This episode is brought to you by Sephora. Holiday gifting can be a tough gig. You're frantically searching, second guessing everything, and accidentally buying your dad eye cream he's never gonna use. Thankfully, Sephora is here to save us from ourselves. Whether you're shopping for a total beauty guru or someone whose whole routine is hand soap, Sephora has the perfect gift for everyone on your list. And if you're still lost, don't panic. Their beauty advisors can guide you to safety. This holiday season, we all Sephora. Shop gifts at Sephora and give something beautiful.