Jon Tenney Creates His Next TV Hit

Jon Tenney is a Juilliard-trained actor and director whose work spans film, television, and theater. Best known for portraying FBI Agent Fritz Howard on the hit TNT drama “The Closer”, Tenney appeared on the series for all seven seasons and directed episodes of both “The Closer” and its spin-off, "Major Crimes”. His television credits also include roles in “Scandal”, “True Detective”, “And Just Like That…”, and “The Lincoln Lawyer”. Tenney has appeared in films such as “I See You”, “The Seagull”, “Tombstone”, “You Can Count on Me”, and “Rabbit Hole”. A respected stage actor, he has performed on Broadway and at Lincoln Center in works by playwrights including Tom Stoppard and David Mamet. His latest role is on the new MGM+ comedy series “American Classic,” which was a labor of love for Tenney, who is also an Executive Producer in addition to a principal cast member alongside Kevin Kline and Laura Linney. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.

• 0:04Speaker 01

  Thinking about selling your car? Get a real offer worth real money from CarMax. Then take seven days to think it over. That's it. No haggling, no hassles, no pressure. Get all the details and a real offer today at carmax.com. Want to drive? CarMax.

• 0:19Speaker 02

  Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds up to $200,000 right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 0:49Speaker 03

  This is Stugatz from Stugatz and Company Live. Buy smart, drive for less, and trade for more. That's Toyota affordability. And it all starts with a great deal on an all-wheel-drive Camry, Corolla Cross, or a Corolla Sedan. With the latest features N-Tech or Test Drive, a spacious Grand Highlander or adventure-ready RAV4. And with so many hybrid models available, you can enjoy longer trips without all the stops. While Toyota's legendary resale value means you can get more at trade-in. Get a great deal today and a great value tomorrow. Shop toyota.com for deals and details. Toyota, let's go places.

• 1:30Alec Baldwin?

  This is Alec Baldwin, and you're listening to Here's the Thing from iHeart Radio. My guest today is a Juilliard-trained actor whose work spans film, television, and the stage. For seven seasons, John Tenny played FBI Agent Fritz Howard on the hit TNT drama The Closer, a role he would reprise on its spin-off Major Crimes. His television credits also include Scandal, True Detective, The Sex and the City reboot and Just Like That, and The Lincoln Lawyer. His film appearances include Rabbit Hole, The Seagull, and I See You.

• 2:12Alec Baldwin?

  A much-respected stage actor, Tenny has performed works by acclaimed playwrights like Tom Stoppard and David Mamet on Broadway. This year, John Tenny stars in the new MGM Plus series, American Classic, alongside Kevin Kline and his former Juilliard classmate, Laura Linney. With such an impressive cast, I assumed this was an easy show to green light. I was curious how Tenny first got involved with American Classic.

• 2:41Speaker 05

  Well, actually, American Classic was an idea that my wife and I had been developing for years. Like, we actu-- I mean, so we--

• 2:52Alec Baldwin?

  You called yourself.

• 2:53Speaker 05

  So, when Kevin said, "I'm in," that was when it happened, because this was back in 2018. I'm doing a play at Lincoln Center, doing the Stoppard play, The Hard Problem, and we go out afterwards, we go out to see a friend of ours doing a play down at the Lucille Ortel in New York, and Dana Delaney. And she does this amazing play called Collective Rage. But we go see it, and we go out afterwards, and we run into some friends, some writer friends, Tom Fontana and John Marcus, two terrific television writers. We all go out, we're talking after the show, and they're talking about a project they're working on, and a different television series. And then my wife goes, "Well, you know, I have an idea for a television series." And I'm like, "What's that? You didn't tell me that." Because we've been looking for something to work together.

• 3:38Speaker 05

  We've done a film together, but--

• 3:39Alec Baldwin?

  That wouldn't concern me. Your wife hadn't told you about her idea for a television series.

• 3:43Speaker 05

  She didn't, she didn't. Yeah, she goes, "You know, we're having this conversation." She goes, "Imagine Kevin Kline." That's how she starts it. And she pitches the bare bones of this idea. And my, the two friends, Tom and John, go, "You know, that's a really good idea." And after that conversation, Leslie was saying, "Oh, well, you know, if these professional writers think this is a good idea, maybe we should do this." So that was like the genesis of the idea. And we began developing this project. Soon after that, Michael Hoffman, who Leslie has worked with before, they did a film called, they did it with Kevin, they did The Midsummer Night's Dream, calls up, he's living in London, he goes, "What's going on? You know, I've got, I gotta get something going. What's hap?" She goes, "Well, I have this idea." He's like, "I love this idea. Let's go, Kevin would love

• 4:25Speaker 05

  this idea too. Let's do this." And then, we knew this show, Slings and Arrows. Bob Martin created this beautiful show, Slings and Arrows, a Canadian show. And we said, "We loved the voice of that." And so she goes, "Well, Michael, you know, do you know Bob Martin?" "Oh, we know. I don't know him." Anyway, we put that, those two together, they got along, and everybody kept on saying yes to the project. And then Kevin, we pitched to Kevin, and, you know, Kevin had known Leslie, and he'd known Michael. We'd never worked together, but we both went to acting, to the same acting school. We went to Juilliard, so we knew, we actually had similar, like, professors and stuff, back in the day. We all went out to dinner, and he said, "I'm in. This is great." And so that's how it all...

• 5:06Alec Baldwin?

  Wow.

• 5:07Speaker 05

  And then we hit, like, serious hurdles. I mean, we had, you know, we had pandemic, we had strikes, we had studios leaving, a new studio coming in. I mean, crazy hurdles, but it was like this little engine that could, that kept on going. So, which is kind, you know, kind of part of what we talk about in the show itself, this sort of collective of people coming together to put, you know, make something. So, there was something sort of meta about it, in a way.

• 5:34Alec Baldwin?

  I watched the show, not just because of Kevin, but I mean, I love Kevin. I love everybody on the show. I love Laura, and Len, and so forth, Len. God, what a character.

• 5:43Speaker 05

  Oh, my God, yeah. And he saved, he saved the day, you know, because he came in, right, we had been developing, like I say, for a number of years, and having some table reads, working on the script, and it had always been Harris Eulen, the late great-

• 5:53Alec Baldwin?

  He was my pal. I just spoke to Kristen today.

• 5:55Speaker 05

  Oh, you did? Oh, wow.

• 5:56Alec Baldwin?

  About his memorial.

• 5:57Speaker 05

  Oh, my God. I love that man. And Laura goes way back with him, obviously. And, no, we were, we had started filming, we had just started filming. In fact, the day, our first day of shooting, we get a call, "Hey..." Harris is in the hospital and that was the beginning of the, the, the end of that. And, and so that was, and actually if you notice, the, the first episode is dedicated to him. At the end of it, if you look really carefully in the, in the second episode, Kevin and I are drinking some bourbon on the, getting drunk on the stoop at the end of the night. And if you look at the label of the bourbon, it's, it's Uland's Reserve and it's got a picture Harris on it. And we toasted up there, just a little nod, you know, and yeah, but it was, Selen came in

• 6:38Speaker 05

  and just, you know, at the 11th hour, but he's extraordinary, extraordinary.

• 6:43Alec Baldwin?

  Well, the, the Harris, my neighbor on Long Island, and he and I would did, did a couple of things together, little programs. We did a, he would do celebrity autobiography. We did re-stage readings of plays. Everybody out there worshipped Harris. They just thought he was, he was it. You know, that, that brings to mind, you know, the people we worked with, that we really, really learned something from, or just admired. Like you're there on a set with someone and you're going, I can't believe I'm doing something with this person.

• 7:08Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah.

• 7:09Alec Baldwin?

  Was Kevin one of those people for you? Was it always a dream to work? You never worked with him before?

• 7:13Speaker 05

  Never worked with him before, but you know, I grew up, I mean, he was like a pinnacle for me. And he was like, I remember, I remember reading, I'm a kid, I'm reading this article, it's spread on him in the Times. I guess he'd just come out in Sophie's Choice, which was I think his first film, you know, like making his entrance that way. And there, there was a big shot of him leaning out on, from the Brooklyn Bridge leaning out and was talking about the, this new generation of actors that are like trained and physical. And, and I was like, that's, that's the pinnacle. That's, I mean, he, he's got it all, you know? So I've admired his work, like, yeah, for years and years and years.

• 7:46Alec Baldwin?

  He came and did my podcast down in Red Bank, New Jersey at the Two Rivers Theater. Comstee and John Diaz run, or were running Two River Theater down in Red Bank. And I said, let's do my podcast down there. And Kevin said, yes, and drove down in a town car just that night and did the thing and drove right back. And it's funny how people like that who you admire so much. Like he turned to me, he goes, he goes, I really enjoy doing this with you. And he goes, we should do something together. And like I was like, you know, I was like, I was like, like a hit of cocaine, you know what I mean? I was like, we should do something together. I'm like, you probably see that to everybody, don't you?

• 8:18Speaker 05

  Well, you know, we had been talking about this with him and we all went out to, we came into New York from Los Angeles and we all went to dinner at Orso's, you know, and we're sitting there and having a, have a meal. And at the end of it, he kind of gets up and he goes, yeah, yeah, we could, we could be brothers. And I was like, my brother, my brother.

• 8:35Alec Baldwin?

  Now, he went to Juilliard, you went to Juilliard.

• 8:37Speaker 05

  He was in the first class at Juilliard, yeah, and then I went.

• 8:39Alec Baldwin?

  After Vassar?

• 8:41Speaker 05

  After Vassar, yeah.

• 8:41Alec Baldwin?

  You graduated.

• 8:42Speaker 05

  I graduated Vassar.

• 8:43Alec Baldwin?

  Why did you think you needed more acting training?

• 8:45Speaker 05

  Well, you know, I was, I went there for my, I did a very practical major in drama and philosophy at Vassar. I forget, I always fall back on that philosophy degree. So, look, I wanted to be an actor since, you know, the third grade play was one of those things for me.

• 8:58Alec Baldwin?

  You did?

• 8:59Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, since I was a kid. Everybody kept on saying I'd grow out of it, and I was like, no, no, no. I never did, but I wanted the training. I wanted that conservatory training. I wanted to go to college. I wanted to have a liberal arts education and then, but I wanted the sort of conservatory training, so that's why I went to Juilliard.

• 9:14Alec Baldwin?

  How long were you there?

• 9:15Speaker 05

  I was there for a year, and then I left, and then I came back, and then I left again. I did two years in two different classes.

• 9:22Alec Baldwin?

  And you get a master's.

• 9:23Speaker 05

  Well, they.

• 9:24Alec Baldwin?

  There's nothing.

• 9:25Speaker 05

  No, nothing. You get a certificate. You get a certificate, you know, and.

• 9:28Alec Baldwin?

  It's like saying your name is Rockefeller. It says N's there.

• 9:30Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 9:31Alec Baldwin?

  I went to Juilliard.

• 9:32Speaker 05

  Yeah, right, right.

• 9:33Alec Baldwin?

  It's over.

• 9:33Speaker 05

  But, you know, the second class I was in there was Laura, Laura Linney. So, we, you know, we've known each other since we were like in our early twenties. So, when she agreed to do this, that was just like old home, you know? We'd done plays together at school, and then outside of school, we'd done some stuff in New York, and we did a film together, but that was like a reunion. And there was a list of actors that Kevin really wanted to work with to play Kristen in the show, and.

• 10:00Alec Baldwin?

  That's Laura.

• 10:01Speaker 05

  That's Laura. That's Laura's.

• 10:02Alec Baldwin?

  His ex.

• 10:03Speaker 05

  His, his ex-love, yeah, and.

• 10:05Alec Baldwin?

  I got a big spoiler alert with this coming about the show, but go ahead.

• 10:07Speaker 05

  Okay, but.

• 10:08Alec Baldwin?

  Well, that ending of that show was fucking insane, and so well done.

• 10:12Speaker 05

  I'm so, I'm so, I'm so glad you took the whole journey.

• 10:14Alec Baldwin?

  Talking about it, and you're both talking about the other it.

• 10:19Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 10:19Alec Baldwin?

  But it sounds like you're both talking, I mean, I'm watching it going, this is, I'm crying laughing.

• 10:24Speaker 05

  Oh, good, oh, good.

• 10:24Alec Baldwin?

  It was really clever.

• 10:25Speaker 05

  Oh, good.

• 10:26Alec Baldwin?

  Well done.

• 10:26Speaker 05

  I'm, that's great.

• 10:27Alec Baldwin?

  Shakespearean in its intelligence.

• 10:29Speaker 05

  Well, that makes, that's made me feel really good to hear.

• 10:31Alec Baldwin?

  Who wrote that episode?

• 10:32Speaker 05

  It was Michael Hoffman and Bob Martin did episode eight. The, the, the, the two of them did that together. Ellen Ferry is another one of our writers. We had three writers. It was.

• 10:40Alec Baldwin?

  How many shows did you do?

• 10:41Speaker 05

  Eight episodes.

• 10:42Alec Baldwin?

  Eight.

• 10:43Speaker 05

  Eight episodes.

• 10:44Alec Baldwin?

  Is it coming back?

• 10:45Speaker 05

  And, uh, well, we, we, we want it to come back. We haven't heard a word yet, but we, you know, I think we're gonna know sometime before, like midsummer, by end of summer, we should know something.

• 10:55Alec Baldwin?

  When I watch something, like I have things I watch to comfort me. When I'm really not feeling my best, the thing that medicates me is old episodes of Alfred Hitchcock Presents.

• 11:05Speaker 05

  Oh, man.

• 11:05Alec Baldwin?

  I need something that's very comfortable, Outer Limits. Twile, I need Gimme Rod Serling talking to me with a cigarette in his hand.

• 11:12Speaker 05

  Oh, my God.

• 11:13Alec Baldwin?

  Something from my childhood. And every now and then I want something that's pure and clean and, and, and decent. And your show is pure and clean and decent and clever.

• 11:22Speaker 05

  Well, that's really, that means.

• 11:24Alec Baldwin?

  Is that a goal?

• 11:25Speaker 05

  Well, it, it was a goal. You know, we really wanted to, we set it in the world of community theater and the theater. And, you know, I think it's been sold that way a little bit, but I think the show is really about a lot more than just that. You know, it's about family and community and, and, and the importance of coming together to create something of value and, and empathy. And so we wanted to touch on all those elements. And it was kind of a, a, a, a needle to the thread, you know, that, you know, how do we, we want it to be funny and entertaining. And I'm glad you found it clever and all that. But, you know, I, I find it really poignant in a lot of areas. And, you know, we end up, you know, doing this production of Our Town. And like the perfect play.

• 12:07Alec Baldwin?

  Under intrinsically arduous circumstances.

• 12:09Speaker 05

  Yes, exactly. It was a long way to get there.

• 12:12Alec Baldwin?

  The only thing missing was the building burning down.

• 12:14Speaker 05

  Well, oh, yeah. Well, and that sort of mirrored, believe me, it was a miracle the whole production happened because we were, like I say, we've been pushing this up the hill for a long time. But it's nice to hear you say that you, you responded that way because, yes, we definitely wanted it to be, I feel proud of the show. I feel proud of the company. And I, I really feel good about, you know, putting a story like this out into the world at this time. You know, I don't know, the older I get, it's like, what do you want to spend your energies doing? And I, we're proud of putting this story out there right now.

• 12:43Alec Baldwin?

  If you go to a movie, and I'm gonna ask you this as a father and as a filmmaker and a producer, if you watch an act of violence and it inspires violence in you, then there's something wrong with you. You know, if you watch adult content sexually speaking, then sex is something you ought to be doing. There's nothing wrong with that. So if you watch something that's very sexual, that concerns me too, but not in the same way that violence in films and TV shows concerns me now. And now it's just like so much blood and so forth.

• 13:10Speaker 05

  Yeah, there's this trauma TV, they call it, right?

• 13:12Alec Baldwin?

  Is that what they, I don't know.

• 13:13Speaker 05

  I mean, yeah, I've heard that expression out there, and it is. It's like you get, I mean, the world can be traumatic enough. And, and, and you know, I don't think the show is just pure escapism at all either. I mean, you, you can sit back and you can laugh at it, but it's not, there's, there's some stuff.

• 13:27Alec Baldwin?

  It's not pure escapism when somebody in the show is actually the father of your child. I don't view that as a escapist fare.

• 13:35Speaker 05

  Right, but it's, there's other messages to be found in there, other, other things to think about if you, if you let yourself take the journey of the show.

• 13:44Alec Baldwin?

  I wanna go back to one thing, which is, what did you get from Juilliard when you went to Juilliard? What do you get from that?

• 13:48Speaker 05

  Well, you know, what, what I appreciated about that was the rigor, you know? It was that sense of, like I said, I'd always wanted to be an actor, but I took it very seriously. And, you know, I, I was doing community theater as a young kid, and, you know, I grew up in Princeton, New Jersey, and it was, I, I didn't realize until I left Princeton just how sort of lucky I was to go there. Cause the university, now my dad worked for the university.

• 14:10Alec Baldwin?

  What'd your dad do?

• 14:11Speaker 05

  He was a, a research physicist, he was a nuclear physicist, and, and he, he worked, there's a fusion test reactor.

• 14:17Alec Baldwin?

  Well, that's where some of the Manhattan Project was birthed, Princeton.

• 14:20Speaker 05

  Well, yeah, the Institute for Advanced Studying.

• 14:22Alec Baldwin?

  Einstein, I think was Princeton.

• 14:23Speaker 05

  Yeah, Einstein was at Princeton, absolutely, and Oppenheimer, and, yeah, but he, he worked, there's a forest all campuses, he was involved in nuclear fusion, not fission. And they have a test reactor there. That's why we were in Princeton.

• 14:35Alec Baldwin?

  Sure, sure, sure.

• 14:37Speaker 05

  And, you know, my, my dad, the nuclear physicist, I know what it sounds, I'm not trying to. But, you know, when I went away to look at colleges, I was like, wait, not everything looks like Princeton? I, it was, it was, what was great about it was what, what the university brought into the town. I mean, you know, we weren't old money Princeton or anything, but, but the university brought in this amazing theater, amazing, you know.

• 15:00Alec Baldwin?

  Beautiful school.

• 15:01Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah, music, dance, all this culture because of the university. And so I was exposed to that at a really young age and just loved it, so. To come back around why I wanted to go to a place like Juilliard, I was lucky enough to get in there, was that, you know, it was a real conservatory.

• 15:19Alec Baldwin?

  Describe for people who don't know what is a conservatory.

• 15:21Speaker 05

  Well, I, you, you go there and you study voice, you study dance, you study movement, you study Steen study.

• 15:29Alec Baldwin?

  Very focused.

• 15:30Speaker 05

  It's very, very focused. You know, when I got out of high school, I knew I wanted to be an actor, but I also wanted to go to college and study, like I say, philosophy or history or something like that. You know, I, I grew up, education was valued in my family that I grew up. I got older brothers and sisters and, and I'm the youngest.

• 15:47Alec Baldwin?

  How many?

• 15:48Speaker 05

  Four.

• 15:49Alec Baldwin?

  In your family?

• 15:50Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah.

• 15:51Alec Baldwin?

  All boys?

• 15:52Speaker 05

  Two older brothers and an older sister.

• 15:53Alec Baldwin?

  Right.

• 15:54Speaker 05

  It was one, two, three, then dot, dot, dot, me. So I was like, you know, I had to, so of course I became the actor, right? And I need to find my.

• 15:59Alec Baldwin?

  Your attention seeking.

• 16:00Speaker 05

  Yeah, I had to have my say at the dinner table, right? So, I'll show you. But I remember, I was like, what do I want to do? I'm getting out of high school, I know this is what I want to do. Some people said, well, why don't you just go in and start auditioning? And I said, no, no, no, I want to go to college. And then I had the liberal arts education, but then I, I wanted that conservatory, that, that really working on my body, my voice, text analysis, all of that.

• 16:19Alec Baldwin?

  Was it English type of approach to acting?

• 16:21Speaker 05

  Well, yeah.

• 16:22Alec Baldwin?

  Very technical.

• 16:23Speaker 05

  I mean, yes, it was, there was a lot of technique there, which is some, that's something I think you can go to school for. I mean, there's a lot of other things that you, I don't think you necessarily have to go to school for, but.

• 16:33Alec Baldwin?

  Such as?

• 16:34Speaker 05

  Some of the, well, look.

• 16:36Alec Baldwin?

  Imagination.

• 16:37Speaker 05

  Yeah, exactly. You know, I mean, every, every actor comes at it. I mean, look, you know, I mean, we all, everybody has their own way to add it, but we're all sort of after the truth in some way, and we just get to it in different ways, right? But.

• 16:50Alec Baldwin?

  I call my technique, seven. If nothing happens, I'll take seven. That's my technique. I'm gonna have shit, just burn the first six.

• 17:02Speaker 05

  At the time, I thought, you know what, I want to go into that, I want to have that training. And so I went and then, and then like I left. And it's interesting because, you know, I left because I got a job, you're not supposed to work while you're there. And I, I had been working, I'd been, you know, doing community, I'd done summer stock. I, I had this plan when I, when I went to college, I said, I knew I want to be an actor, I want to be in the union. So every summer I was at Vassar, that's where I went to college. Every summer I went up to Williamstown Theater Festival to do plays.

• 17:32Alec Baldwin?

  To Williamstown too.

• 17:33Speaker 05

  Yeah, and I started out as an apprentice and I went into the non-equity company, painting sets. And I was like, I'm gonna, by the time I get out of here, I'm gonna accrue enough points to be in the Actors Equity, you know, that's what I wanted to. Well, they kept on adding rungs to the equity ladder, so like, I was like, this is not, not happening, but.

• 17:51Alec Baldwin?

  Like going to the DMV. I mean, they're like, you're not ready yet, no.

• 17:54Speaker 05

  Right, right, right, so I sort of had this plan and then I, I got out of college and I thought, well, I still need, you know, I'm not equity, but I, I wanted this conservatory training. But then I started getting jobs and.

• 18:07Alec Baldwin?

  Working got in the way of your education.

• 18:09Speaker 05

  Well, well, actually, somebody I met at Williamstown while I was there, a directing intern. I'd gotten into school, but the, the, last summer I was at Williamstown, I had to make some money. And so I said, well, let's run the company bar and, and I ran into this directing intern, Melanie. And she had this big boombox and I was like, I need a boombox for the, for the bar, because we're, this is a little basement where the company comes after shows. And we get to be friends, smash cut, we're out of the, I go to, I go to Juilliard. She goes to the city, she starts working at Simon and Cuman Casting. And I run into her at a party in the city and she goes, what do you, do you have a picture and resume? I'm working at the Simon, they're, they're casting this national tour. Mike Nichols is casting this national tour of The Real Thing.

• 18:53Speaker 05

  And do you have an agent? I go, I don't have an agent, but I got a picture and resume. She will, give me your picture and resume, I'll, I'll slip it into the thing. So this woman I met at Williamstown slips something in, I get a call back, I get them, blah, blah, blah, long story short, I get the gig.

• 19:06Alec Baldwin?

  You auditioned for him?

• 19:07Speaker 05

  For him.

• 19:08Alec Baldwin?

  What was that like?

• 19:09Speaker 05

  Oh, oh, I went, oh, I was like, I was so fucking, I, I didn't think I realized. At the time, I was like, I went to the Broadway House, I walked into the wings. It was the first time I'd been in the wings of a Broadway House. That was like the final callback.

• 19:20Alec Baldwin?

  Lincoln Center?

• 19:21Speaker 05

  No, no, that was, it was, what was the Broadway House we auditioned with? They were doing, I think it might have been The Booth?

• 19:27Alec Baldwin?

  You toured for how long?

• 19:28Speaker 05

  It was supposed to be a year. It was supposed to be a year and I was at Juilliard and I got cast in this and I was like, listen, I-

• 19:35Alec Baldwin?

  I gotta go.

• 19:36Speaker 05

  I got this job and they were, it was, Brian Bedford was the lead in the, in the tour, national tour. And he had taught at Juilliard back in the day. And so they sort of thought, okay, it's Mike Nichols, it's this. They sort of gave me a leave of absence, basically. They said, you can go for a year.

• 19:50Alec Baldwin?

  Which you were probably like the 30th that year.

• 19:52Speaker 05

  And I-

• 19:54Alec Baldwin?

  People go to that school, then they're getting jobs and they're like, okay, come back later.

• 19:56Speaker 05

  So I, I, I got that, I went out and that was, that tour was produced by Manny Aizenberg. You remember Manny, Iron Mountain Productions, producing all the Neil Simon shows on Broadway at the time. And the tour ended before a year, it ended after eight months. And I came back, I was, all of a sudden it was summer in the city. He goes, hey, man, we got all these young kids in these Neil Simon shows, Biloxi Blues, Brighton Beach.

• 20:20Alec Baldwin?

  Aizenberg said this.

• 20:20Speaker 05

  Aizenberg, you wanna come in, be an understudy here and do that? So all of a sudden I started working, I had this Broadway gig, I was understudying on Broadway. And so I stayed out at Juilliard, I didn't go back. I did that for a couple, for a year and then I thought, you know, I missed, I, I kept on feeling like I need to, I kinda wanna go back and I, I wanna, I wanna do that classwork. And I, so I went-

• 20:43Alec Baldwin?

  Well, no, why? What weren't you getting from working with Mike Nichols that you-

• 20:47Speaker 05

  Well, no, I, I know, you know, it's-

• 20:49Alec Baldwin?

  What were you not getting from your national tour of stop art?

• 20:52Speaker 05

  I don't know if I made, I, I, I don't know, maybe it's, it's crazy how I was thinking. There was some part of me that felt like I needed, I, you, you need to train, you need to study, you need to train your voice, you trained-

• 21:04Alec Baldwin?

  And you're young.

• 21:05Speaker 05

  Yeah, you need to go back to that. I, I, that was sort of in my head. And, and then I went back and I was there for a year and I got cast in another thing. And, and I left. But, you know, when I left the second time, one of my professors, cause, you know, when I went to Juilliard, it's changed much. A lot over the years. When I was there, it was a real sort of break you down to build you up. Kind of school, which I don't really agree with that.

• 21:30Alec Baldwin?

  Respond to.

• 21:31Speaker 05

  I don't know. I mean, the rigor, yes, but like the, we gotta smash you down to, to build you up is not, I, I, I don't, I don't think that's the best way to do it. But when I left the second time, one of the professors pulled me aside and he kind of wanted to put a little earworm in me just to like, stick it to me. He goes, he goes, you will always feel like you could have been better. You will always feel like you could have been like, it's just like a, like a little curse.

• 21:55Alec Baldwin?

  You're never gonna get it.

• 21:57Speaker 05

  And.

• 21:57Alec Baldwin?

  That's what I thought.

• 21:58Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah. And.

• 21:59Alec Baldwin?

  That stayed with me too.

• 22:01Speaker 05

  Yeah. And man, to this day, and I have to say, you know, you come back to Kevin Kline. I shared that story with him actually when we were working on the thing and he's like, Hey, John, I was only there for a year. I, I, he was in the first, he, he, he was there, you know, the first class. He's like, I was only there for two years. Like, don't, you know, he, he. He kind of just tried to help me let that go. Cause to this day, like you have these little things that stick with you.

• 22:28Alec Baldwin?

  You wanted more. You wanted more school. You wanted more training after you had, you know, now, when you work with someone, and I worked with Mike, I did my first, one of my first parts in a movie was Working Girl with Mike. And I thought Mike was just hysterically funny because we'd take him in there and he, it was just, everything was right to the marrow. He just, we didn't, we didn't have time. He's gonna just cleave right to the marrow. And he'd say to me, he goes, and I mean, he would always be very polite. And say to me, he goes, how do you see this? He was very kind to me. He was so kind to me. And he goes, cause we were gonna do the movie Working Girl, where Melanie and I were the leads. And, and, and I think, I've had like two or three other directors say the same thing. So I think this is a thing that directors say just to en, enlist you in their cause and make you feel secure. Mike says to me, I wanted you to do, play the two leads.

• 23:12Alec Baldwin?

  And they told me if I had you as the leads, they were gonna give me thirty million dollars. But if I had Harrison and Segurni, they were gonna give me sixty five million dollars to make the movie. And I'm like, oh, well, I, I get it. I understand. I understand. I had other directors said, now I want, one famous one, I won't tell you. He said, now if I do it with you, they're gonna get Warner Brothers, they're gonna give me thirty million, but if I do it with these other two, they're gonna give me seventy five million. I was like, whoa. Oh, I understand. Yes, of course. And what is this, a thing directors say, like, to get you to play the other role? But he comes up to me and he goes, "How do you see this scene?" And I go, "Well, I thought maybe I'd be playing around and having sex with this girl." And she goes, "You see her head slide down, slide down, and you see me smiling." And he goes, "Okay, that's not a bad idea." You know, we say that. "That's not a bad idea." And he says, "But what I thought was, you know, she opens the door,

• 23:55Alec Baldwin?

  and there she is naked, right on top of you, riding you for all it's worth." And I go, "Okay, okay." And the two of us had to be like, you know, all our clothes off, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

• 24:05Speaker 05

  Mike was amazing, though, huh?

• 24:07Alec Baldwin?

  But Mike. Then he said to me one time, this is my favorite, Mike. Mike says to me, he goes, "I want you to do another movie with me." Then he calls me up, and I'm in my old apartment. I was just breaking up with my girlfriend, and we'd been breaking up for like a year. It was really like one of those shitty relationships, in a way. And we just can't seem to euthanize this thing. Mike calls me, and he goes, "I would like you to do..." It's January, it's right after the holiday. He goes, "I have this part for you in this movie." And I said, "Well," I said, "I don't think I can go to work right now. I'm really, like, so depressed, and I'm breaking up with my girlfriend, and my life is hell, and my mom's been sick, and, you know, my mom had breast cancer, she beat it." But, I mean, everything was not great. And he goes to me, "We're not shooting the movie until May." This is January. And I go, "Well, I mean, I can't tell you how, you know, I don't know what's gonna happen, how things..." But he goes,

• 24:49Alec Baldwin?

  "What problems could you possibly have that couldn't be solved by May?" He said. I thought, "What a thing to say." "You got me there, Mike. You got me there." But, but did he help you? Was it director, or was it just casting? He just turned you loose?

• 25:02Speaker 05

  Oh, no, no, he completely, well, it was great. Yeah, he really helped me, yeah. I mean, just watching him do the whole thing, and working with Stopford, I mean, the two of them. It was, it was an extraordinary way to...

• 25:12Alec Baldwin?

  What was Stopford like? Because his pieces are so dry.

• 25:15Speaker 05

  Stopford is a rock star. He was a rock star. The smartest guy could talk about anything, anything. You know, genius, and always choosing the right word, always just the right way to say it. But access, completely accessible, not a standoff at all. Yeah, actually, I just, you know, I got my Equity card with Mike doing Stopford. And then I just, the last thing I did in New York was the Stopford, my hard problem.

• 25:40Alec Baldwin?

  What was that? I'd never heard of that show.

• 25:41Speaker 05

  It was a play that was done in London. The New York premiere was in 2018 at Lincoln Center. I played the father of a girl who was adopted. It's about a group of scientists, young student scientists, who, and the lead girl had been adopted.

• 25:59Alec Baldwin?

  By you?

• 25:59Speaker 05

  Yes, as a child, and that's revealed at the end of it, but...

• 26:04Alec Baldwin?

  I first found him really tough to, you know, it's very heady and very, very...

• 26:08Speaker 05

  It is very heady. I mean, he was working actually on Leopoldstadt at the time, which is that this masterpiece that the last play he did, which was really his personal story about, you know, deeply personal story. I think that was the last play he'd written before he died. But it was a, it was a very heady thing to be, come into with Mike Nichols and Tom Stoppard to sort of my, my entree to that. But Mike was incredibly helpful to me, very kind, although, you know, he would also do things like we're in tech rehearsals and run-throughs before we open and he comes and he puts his arm around me and he, and he starts walking me across the stage. He doesn't say anything. He's going, he's walking me across the stage.

• 26:50Speaker 05

  It's like he's gonna say something important. He doesn't say anything, walks a little farther, doesn't say anything, walks a little farther, doesn't say anything. Finally, we get to the other side of the stage. He goes, "Faster." And I'm like, "Gotcha."

• 27:01Alec Baldwin?

  Okay, understood.

• 27:03Speaker 05

  I remember we, a little funny story. We opened in Palm Beach. That's where we, the tour started in Palm Beach.

• 27:09Alec Baldwin?

  Stoppard in Palm Beach?

• 27:10Speaker 05

  Yeah, well, we, it's, it was the circuit, you know, it was Palm Beach, it was Fort Lauderdale, San Antonio, there's a whole...

• 27:18Alec Baldwin?

  The Burbells Dinner Theater.

• 27:19Speaker 05

  Yeah, the, well, no, the whole Schubert organization, yeah, yeah. And he's going on to me, so I'm gonna take everybody out to dinner. And there's this great restaurant there. They got the best key lime pie. This, it's a key lime pie. He goes on and on about this key lime pie. "Gotta get the key lime pie, gotta get it." So we go, we have this amazing meal, you know, appetizers, this, this, entrees, whole thing. Finally gets to be dessert. We've got, he's got the whole company there. And he's like, "Now we'd like key lime pie for everybody." Waiter comes back and goes, "Um, we're all out of key lime pie. We have no key lime pie." Next day, we go to this, to the stage. We walk into the, the Theater for Tech and lined up across the proscenium from one end to the other, one of these boxes of key lime pie that he tracked down. And he was like, everybody gets their...

• 27:58Alec Baldwin?

  He doesn't mess around, Mike.

• 27:59Speaker 05

  Yeah, he doesn't, yeah. He doesn't mess around.

• 28:04Alec Baldwin?

  Actor John Tenny. If you enjoy conversations about the craft of acting, both on the stage and screen, check out my episode with Tenny's American classic co-star, Kevin Kline.

• 28:16Speaker 06

  Bakula would say to me, "Look, whatever we've talked about in this scene, what we think it's about, or what could happen, if you get a different impulse during that scene, forget what we planned, you follow your impulses." The character was a psychopath, and had to be unpredictable, and he wanted it to be as spontaneous as possible. And then again, I was blessed with Meryl, who Meryl said, "Don't be afraid you're gonna hurt me," because a lot of it was very physical. She said, "You can't," which I took as a challenge, of course. But she was right. And Bakula said, "Do what you want."

• 28:56Alec Baldwin?

  To hear more of my conversation with Kevin Kline, go to here'sthething.org. After the break, John Tenny talks about working opposite Mary Louise Parker onstage, and the irreplaceable feeling of the theater community.

• 29:18Speaker 02

  Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds up to $200,000 right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat with flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment. Get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 29:49Speaker 07

  AI was supposed to make building simpler. Instead, people building with AI are navigating more models, tools, and resources than ever. The challenge isn't finding AI resources. The challenge is finding the ones that matter. With endless documentation, tutorials, and community threads, it can take longer to find the right path than to start building. That's where the Microsoft AI Innovators hub. Built for people turning AI ideas into working solutions. It brings together code samples, guided labs, and practical guidance on choosing models, building agents, and moving AI applications from prototype to production. And it's all in one place. Because the best way to learn AI is to build it.

• 30:32Speaker 07

  And that's exactly what you can do at the AI Innovators Hub. Explore the Microsoft AI Innovators Hub and start building. Visit aka.ms/ai-innovators. That's aka.ms/ai-innovators.

• 30:48Speaker 06

  This is Colin Cowherd from the Colin Cowherd Podcast. Buy smart, drive for less, and trade for more. That's Toyota Fordability. All starts with a great deal on an off-road Ready Tacoma or a half-ton Tundra, two of Toyota's most capable and longest-lasting trucks. Built on a reputation for quality and reliability, Toyota trucks are known for holding their value, which could mean big savings when it's time for your next Toyota. For a great deal today to a great value tomorrow. Shoptoyota.com. Toyota, let's go places.

• 31:23Alec Baldwin?

  I'm Alec Baldwin, and this is Here's the Thing. John Tenny played FBI Agent Fritz Howard on The Closer for seven seasons. Tenny appeared in 109 episodes, an impressively long run for a single series. The Closer was just one stretch of a career that has navigated seamlessly between television, film, and the stage. With so much of his recent work being on TV, I wanted to know, when was the last time John Tenny acted in a film, and if the medium still interested him?

• 31:55Speaker 05

  Well, I did a little indie called Ice at the Bottom of the World.

• 31:58Alec Baldwin?

  When was that?

• 31:59Speaker 05

  I actually did that right after I wrapped.

• 32:01Alec Baldwin?

  So recently?

• 32:01Speaker 05

  But yeah, recently, yeah.

• 32:03Alec Baldwin?

  Do you find that films still interest you? You don't have kids at home now. Your daughter's how old now?

• 32:06Speaker 05

  Yeah, my daughter's, she's 28.

• 32:08Alec Baldwin?

  And where is she?

• 32:09Speaker 05

  Well, she lives in LA, but I think she's moving to New York in the fall. That's what she's saying, so.

• 32:13Alec Baldwin?

  Just as soon as you got a plane?

• 32:14Speaker 05

  Yeah, mine, that'd be very nice. Yeah, she's, she's the best. She's a writer.

• 32:19Alec Baldwin?

  But as TV, you feel like, like for me, I feel like I've done that. I traveled, I broke my, I unpacked the suitcase, repacked the suitcase, shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot. Now I'm like, I really don't want to work that much anymore. If I did a TV show, I feel very comfortable with that.

• 32:33Speaker 05

  Yeah, I mean, look, I think it depends on the project, it seems. I mean, if, I, I hope we get to come back and keep on telling the story of American classic. I mean, I would love that. And that was a real, that was the first time I'd actually really developed something from the ground up, you know, with television. A lot of times with the TV series, you're like, there's a train that's moving and you're like a gun for hire and boom, you step on the train and it's going. But there is something to be said about the community that, of, of television, especially if something goes on for a while. It's more like a play in a way, as far as you get a company as a, as opposed to film, you know, you're very close for a second, then you're gone.

• 33:06Alec Baldwin?

  The travels is what bothered me. Staying home is my goal.

• 33:09Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, no. I understand with all those kids, absolutely. No, of course. Well, you know, the closer was, I stayed, I, closer was a godsend for me because, you know, I had split with my ex, the mother of my daughter. I used to always go, like I would come back to New York, I would do a play, a movie or a TV show in LA to sort of support my theater habit. I'd come back to New York and I'd do a play. And I'd go back, I'd make a little money in LA, then I'd come back and do a play in New York. And that was-

• 33:34Alec Baldwin?

  That's the dream.

• 33:35Speaker 05

  That was my life for years. And then, when I split with my ex and I have this five and a half year old little girl, that's in LA, I had to cut off that whole New York life for me. I was like, no, I'm-

• 33:49Alec Baldwin?

  I'm gonna play for a while.

• 33:50Speaker 05

  I'm raising my daughter for, in LA for, you know, because I got her half the time. So-

• 33:54Alec Baldwin?

  And then closer came.

• 33:55Speaker 05

  And the closer allowed me, they were such sweethearts. They allowed me to take my daughter to school every morning, pick my daughter up. They, you know, the role I played was, you know, I was, I had all the, the love relationship, you know, I had, you know, all, everybody else ran around and did all the cop talk and all that sort of stuff. And then I got all the kitchen sinks, you know, meaty scenes that you want to do as an actor. And I didn't have any of the cops speak. I just, we had the, the love scenes and the, and the home drama. And, you know, I adored Kira. But they worked around my schedule so I could help raise my daughter. Which was, and it ran for seven years.

• 34:29Alec Baldwin?

  My god.

• 34:30Speaker 05

  It was like just.

• 34:30Alec Baldwin?

  We looked it up, a hundred and nine episodes.

• 34:32Speaker 05

  A hundred and nine episodes.

• 34:33Alec Baldwin?

  That sounds good to me.

• 34:34Speaker 05

  It was just a godsend, you know, a lifeline as far as that goes, is a single dad, for sure. And actually, the head of TNT, who that's where the closer was, is a terrific guy, Michael Wright, who's now.

• 34:46Alec Baldwin?

  I know Michael Wright.

• 34:47Speaker 05

  But now, he's the head of MGM Plus.

• 34:49Alec Baldwin?

  MGM, yeah.

• 34:49Speaker 05

  We took this to Michael, because he used to be an actor.

• 34:52Alec Baldwin?

  Right.

• 34:52Speaker 05

  And when this project, when we were shopping it around, I was like, we gotta bring it to this guy. He's gonna love this, because he loves the theater, and sure enough, he stepped up.

• 35:02Alec Baldwin?

  Now, in the theater, for me, the theater is something I still cling to.

• 35:06Speaker 05

  Well, I'll tell you now, I've seen you on stage, I mean, you gave a stage performance that like, really was an amazing, Prelude to a Kiss.

• 35:13Alec Baldwin?

  Oh god, you saw that, nineteen eighty-nine.

• 35:15Speaker 05

  I'd just done a play with Mary Louise.

• 35:17Alec Baldwin?

  Did you, what'd you do?

• 35:18Speaker 05

  Down, down at the Old Globe. I'd done a big Terrence McNally play that was supposed to come into town, didn't end up coming into town, but we did it down at the Old Globe. And actually, that started my career out in Los Angeles, actually. But she came in and said, you gotta come see this play I'm doing in New York. And I went to see that, and that was an extraordinary, that Craig Lucas play was just extraordinary.

• 35:39Alec Baldwin?

  I tell you, and she knows this, when I did Streetcar on Broadway, I'd go onstage, and Amy Madigan would come to my room, just for five minutes. She was fun, and I just adored her. And Amy Madigan would come to my room, and the joke was she'd say, because I smoked then, and she'd say, not a lot, but I smoked pretty habitually. She'd come to my room, Amy, and she'd say, let's rehearse our smoking, was the joke we'd say. So we'd both light up a cigarette, we'd be like, rehearse, we'd say, we have to rehearse our smoking. So we did that, but when I did Prelude with Mary Louise, I went onstage, and I don't say this, I'm sixty-eight years old now, I think I have enough perspective to know what's real and what's not. I fell in love with Mary Louise Parker every night I walked onstage. I was so in love with her, I could not tell you how in love with her I was. I'm sure you probably felt the same way.

• 36:21Speaker 05

  A hundred percent, a hundred percent.

• 36:23Alec Baldwin?

  She's such a strange, different woman.

• 36:25Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah, she came in, she comes in sideways to the room, like, I remember meeting her, and I was like, who is this girl? This was before she'd, you know, taken off, and I was like, who is this girl? The choices she makes, just mesmerizing. But you know, I bring up that play because not only, I mean, you were terrific in it, but it was so poignant and incredibly funny. And it reminds me a little bit, actually, of American classic. In that sense, there's a poignancy to it.

• 36:52Alec Baldwin?

  There's things I want to do, still, work-wise. In the theater, I'm really kind of strong on, I mean, the last play I did onstage was 2015, I think I did. All my sons with Laurie Metcalf out on Long Island.

• 37:05Speaker 05

  Oh, really?

• 37:06Alec Baldwin?

  We had a real shot at doing it on Broadway, and then Laurie had to go do her TV series.

• 37:10Speaker 05

  There's nothing like that communal theater.

• 37:12Alec Baldwin?

  I'm dying to do it, but it's really tough.

• 37:13Speaker 05

  The communal experience of the theater.

• 37:14Alec Baldwin?

  It's really tough.

• 37:14Speaker 05

  Yeah, well, yeah, especially with all the kids. I get it, I get it. But I tell you, there's something about that, a whole group of strangers being in a room and experiencing something that you get in the theater that is really healthy.

• 37:26Alec Baldwin?

  What's the part you want to play?

• 37:27Speaker 05

  Well, you know, I would actually love to go back and revisit the real thing, only playing Henry. That would be an extraordinary thing to do. There's a bunch of parts I've grown out of, but yeah, I mean, that's actually one that comes to mind, actually.

• 37:39Alec Baldwin?

  I mean, for me, you find plays, I said to somebody, I just look at Williams, I say, well, you're gonna be Chance, you're gonna be Brick, you're gonna be Stanley. Then there's that huge leap, and then that's why you see every actor do Shannon. I just saw Tim Daly do Shannon last year. Everybody rolls out their Iguana.

• 37:57Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 37:58Alec Baldwin?

  That's all there is, until you play the doctor in Streetcar, or Big Daddy, if that's it, or Gooper. And I have wanted to do a play, but the difficulty is, the economics of Broadway now are tough, too.

• 38:09Speaker 05

  Well, the economics of theater don't make any sense, yeah, they just don't, they don't.

• 38:13Alec Baldwin?

  I can only do not-for-profit, I just, I won't take the chance. I did Orphans on Broadway. This is the one where we had Shia, and he quit. Shia LaBeouf and Ben came in and saved us. Ben Foster saved our lives. He parachuted in and learned all the lines and took his place. But we did that, and we got merciless reviews. They were like, you know, you have no idea what you're doing, you suck, you, and PS, you suck. And, but I really enjoyed that experience. I mean, there were some big problems with the production, obviously, but I really, really enjoyed that experience. But I sat down with Bob Cole. Him and Zolo were the producers, Fred. And Cole, who I like very much, a very smart guy. He kind of took me through the economics of modern Broadway. The papering of the houses and how everything really, really works.

• 38:58Alec Baldwin?

  And it was like, God, this is a night, I'm never coming back.

• 39:01Speaker 05

  Well, there's that great sequence with, where Billy Carter plays Connor Boyle in our show. Talks about the economics of, of theater, how like donuts pay, but theater doesn't. You know, when he comes in, has that whole speech where he talks about, take your man Stephen Sondheim. You know, he's a, he's a genius. Only two of his shows recouped. Oh, yeah.

• 39:19Alec Baldwin?

  Who is that woman that played his wife, the crazy?

• 39:21Speaker 05

  Elise, Elise Kibler.

• 39:23Alec Baldwin?

  Do me a favor, tell her how much I love her.

• 39:25Speaker 05

  Out of NYU, she came out of NYU.

• 39:27Alec Baldwin?

  Tell her how much I love her. She cracked me up.

• 39:29Speaker 05

  She's amazing. She is amazing. She is the whole company. We have.

• 39:33Alec Baldwin?

  When Kevin goes through all four ways, you can say, you have no talent.

• 39:39Alec Baldwin?

  You have no talent, finally.

• 39:41Speaker 05

  And she's like, spit it out. Talk to me, talk to me what? And then she breaks your heart in that scene, you know? Like you're laughing at her and then all of a sudden you see her here that she doesn't have any talent.

• 39:50Alec Baldwin?

  She's fabulous.

• 39:51Speaker 05

  She's crushed.

• 39:52Alec Baldwin?

  Tell those guys, Hoffman, tell them I'm just, my hats off to them.

• 39:58Alec Baldwin?

  Actor John Tenny. If you're enjoying this conversation, tell a friend. And be sure to follow Here's the Thing on the iHeart Radio app, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. After the break, John Tenny takes us behind the scenes of American classic and its development process.

• 40:27Speaker 03

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 make it happen fast. Rated A plus by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com.

• 40:47Speaker 06

  Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 40:55Speaker 07

  AI was supposed to make building simpler. Instead, people building with AI are navigating more models, tools and resources than ever. The challenge isn't finding AI resources. The challenge is finding the ones that matter. With endless documentation, tutorials and community threads, it can take longer to find the right path than to start building. That's where the Microsoft AI Innovators Hub comes in. Built for people turning AI ideas into working solutions, it brings together code samples, guided labs, and practical guidance on choosing models, building agents and moving AI applications from prototype to production. And it's all in one place. Because the best way to learn AI is to build it.

• 41:38Speaker 07

  And that's exactly what you can do at the AI Innovators Hub. Explore the Microsoft AI Innovators Hub and start building. Visit aka.ms slash AI dash innovators. That's aka dot ms slash AI dash innovators.

• 41:54Speaker 03

  This is Colin Cowherd from the Colin Cowherd Podcast. Buy smart, drive for less and trade for more. That's Toyota affordability. All starts with a great deal on an off-road ready Tacoma or a half-ton Tundra to a Toyota's most capable and longest-lasting trucks. Built on a reputation for quality and reliability, Toyota trucks are known for holding their value, which could mean big savings when it's time for your next Toyota. For a great deal today to a great value tomorrow. Shop toyota.com. Toyota, let's go places.

• 42:30Alec Baldwin?

  I'm Alec Baldwin and this is Here's the Thing. Acting may be John Tenny's first love, but it isn't the only role he's held on a set. During his years on The Closer and its spin-off, Major Crimes, Tenny directed several episodes himself, well before taking on a producing role on American Classic. I wanted to know what Tenny's experience was like directing a television show after acting in it for so long.

• 42:58Speaker 05

  I directed one of The Closer's and then they did a spin-off, Major Crimes, and I directed a bunch of those.

• 43:02Alec Baldwin?

  Did you enjoy that?

• 43:03Speaker 05

  I did enjoy that. I mean, again, it's like you get on a moving train, but I felt like it called on all parts of me in a way that, look, I love acting, but it's a very single focus. But directing, it was a great, one of the directing mentors of mine said, you know what it is? It's like painting a big triptych, huge triptych, but from one inch away. And so you've got to concentrate on these little tiny things, but you've got to keep all of this in mind. And I thought that was a great analogy. And so it's exciting to sort of be called on, have all those parts you called on. And I felt a little bit that way, actually, you know, producing, you know, being one of the producers on this show. That was...

• 43:42Alec Baldwin?

  The show?

• 43:42Speaker 05

  The American Classic. It was so satisfying, being just involved and being in the conversations.

• 43:48Alec Baldwin?

  Where did you shoot?

• 43:48Speaker 05

  We shot in New Jersey.

• 43:50Alec Baldwin?

  Where in New Jersey?

• 43:50Speaker 05

  Maplewood, Maplewood, New Jersey.

• 43:52Alec Baldwin?

  I know Maplewood.

• 43:52Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, half hour from the city. All location. It was cheaper to shoot all on location than on stage, so no building.

• 43:59Alec Baldwin?

  Netflix is building that big campus out there.

• 44:01Speaker 05

  They're building a big thing.

• 44:02Alec Baldwin?

  In Monmouth, I think it is, yeah.

• 44:03Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 44:04Alec Baldwin?

  But you like directing?

• 44:05Speaker 05

  I do. I do like that.

• 44:06Alec Baldwin?

  I directed once and I hated every minute of it.

• 44:08Speaker 05

  Oh, really? What'd you hate about it?

• 44:09Alec Baldwin?

  Well, first of all, the story is a legend, which I won't bore you with now, because it's bizarre because the producer committed bank fraud.

• 44:17Speaker 05

  Yeah, that's not good.

• 44:19Alec Baldwin?

  In fact, two of his financiers went to prison. I contacted a family friend of mine who was a teacher with my dad on Long Island for 10 years. Then after he was like around 32, when he was still young enough, he took the test and joined the FBI in Manhattan. And he was friends with my dad. My dad passed away, you know, many years ago. He was very young. My dad was only 55 when he died. But this guy, Danny, we'll just say his name. I called him on the phone. He's in the FBI in Manhattan. And I called him and I go, here's what happened. He goes, wow, you're kidding me. And they go ahead and these guys broke Nevada banking laws and two of them went to prison for bank fraud. I mean, what they did was they falsified the documents that collateralized the loan. So you go to the bank, which I mean, obviously, there's a good, there's a few of the usual suspects out there, and the bankers were all there and were all signing the loans.

• 45:04Alec Baldwin?

  So they're gonna, you know, Imperial Bank, the famous bank that would lay out all the money back then, and Imperial gave us the money to make the movie. And those guys collateralized it with false documents. They didn't have any money in the bank. They put, one of the guys was the producer, the other guy was a bank official from the Bank of New York, who wrote false documents for his clients, saying, oh, he's got the five million, he's good for it. And then we go and shoot the movie, and the producer comes up to me in the beginning of the shooting, first week, he goes, I'll tell you what I'm gonna do. He goes, I'm gonna keep current on your acting fee, because we bundled all your money as a producer. He goes, but I'm gonna keep current on your acting payments, and I'm gonna keep current on your directing payments, and all your money's front-loaded as a producer. He goes, I'm not gonna pay you a dime. I'm gonna pay you SAG minimum, fix to come, and you're welcome to come and direct the movie for free, and finish the movie for free. This is week one.

• 45:48Alec Baldwin?

  And he goes, or, per the SAG contract, the first A.D. will come in and finish the movie, and I'll make you come and watch, because you'll have to come and do this. My point is, is that I, I directed a movie, and, and the thing I hated most was dealing with actors.

• 46:01Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, I know. It's, yeah.

• 46:04Alec Baldwin?

  Getting them to do what I wanted them to do. The lead actress turns to my friend, I'm talking to him, I'm going, just throw it away, just, just do this, when she says to you, just like, you're, you're a sales clerk and you just don't really give a shit. And the, when the woman, who shall remain nameless, turns to me, goes, oh, yeah, she goes, listen to Alec, he plays all the parts the best, he's great at every, he can play all the parts in the movie. She was like, really pissed that I was saying to her, hey, man, we got, we got Tony Hopkins. I paid Tony Hopkins a million dollars for one week, so I got Dan Aykroyd, Kim Cattrall, Barry Miller.

• 46:33Speaker 05

  Barry Miller.

• 46:34Alec Baldwin?

  Barry Miller.

• 46:35Speaker 05

  Barry Miller.

• 46:36Alec Baldwin?

  I, the first, first television series I ever did with Barry Miller.

• 46:39Speaker 05

  Equal Justice, Thomas Carter with Equal Justice. Yeah, Joe Morton.

• 46:42Alec Baldwin?

  I love the taste of, my girlfriend loves the taste of communion wafer's father.

• 46:47Alec Baldwin?

  Now, Murphy Brown. You were Murphy Brown's love interest.

• 46:50Speaker 05

  I was Murphy Brown's love interest.

• 46:51Alec Baldwin?

  You're 15 years younger than her.

• 46:52Speaker 05

  That was Murphy Brown's.

• 46:53Alec Baldwin?

  How did that work?

• 46:54Speaker 05

  That was great. I was doing, I think I told you, I went out to do that play with Mary Louise at the Old Globe. And then I stayed on to do Romeo and Juliet at the Old Globe. And I'm doing Romeo and Juliet at the Old Globe, and a review comes out in the LA Times with my picture on it, and their second season of Murphy Brown's about to come up, and somebody in the casting sees this picture in the LA Times and says, "This guy, we're trying to hire Miles' older brother, who comes in and has this little affair with Murphy Brown." So because of the review of that, they called me in, I come up for a meeting, and Mike Nichols, bless his heart, because he goes way back with Candy Bergen, does a little call saying, "Hey Candy," because they were, you know, "I discovered John Tenny."

• 47:37Speaker 05

  And so, so that's how that all came about. But that was, I remember, I was so excited to meet her, and I get taken up to the stage, and she's in the middle, she's rehearsing something, she's with a bunch of people, and she's talking to the crew, and she's telling this story, and I'm just standing in the wings, I haven't met her yet, and I'm waiting on the stage, and she's telling this story, and she's got all the crew around, she's telling a story about when she was shooting some movie, I don't know if it was 11 Harrow House or something, she's telling a story about where she was squibbed up, and she's running, and she goes, "And I'm running, and I'm running, I have all these squibs on, I'm running, I'm running," and the squib starts sliding down, sliding down like this, and they're about to let go of, and I'm like, "Stop, stop, stop," it's kind of, she says,

• 48:18Speaker 05

  "This is gonna look like I got shot in the," I don't know what I can say on here, but.

• 48:24Alec Baldwin?

  Corpus Christi.

• 48:25Speaker 05

  Right, right. "I got shot in the Corpus Christi." Yeah, and then she goes, "Hi, I'm Candy."

• 48:32Alec Baldwin?

  So, now, what do you think about, like, for me, it's changed so much, obviously, and I'm always haranguing and complaining about virtual casting. I say, you know, when I was younger, I said this numerous times on this show, where I'd go see Jane Jenkins and Janet Hirsch, and I'm with Jane and Janet, and you walk out the door, and they'd say, you know, the reason I had a career was, they'd say, "He's not right for Tom in this movie, but he's right for Bob in the other movie." They got eight plates in the air at the same time, and they're casting lots of things, and their whole attitude was, "We're gonna put you in something."

• 49:01Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 49:01Alec Baldwin?

  "We're gonna put you in, we like you, and we're gonna make this work somehow." It's so much harder now to get in.

• 49:06Speaker 05

  You know.

• 49:07Alec Baldwin?

  Do you think so?

• 49:07Speaker 05

  Really, much harder. I mean, Bernie Telsey is our casting director, who cast the American classic.

• 49:12Alec Baldwin?

  I remember him.

• 49:12Speaker 05

  Yeah, Bernie, and he casts a lot of theater, he knows everybody. When they were auditioning for a young actress to play my daughter in the show.

• 49:21Alec Baldwin?

  What's her name, the actress who plays it?

• 49:22Speaker 05

  Oh, Nell. Nell Verlack. Oh, my God. Nell Verlack. Just extraordinary.

• 49:26Alec Baldwin?

  She's Miss Brighton.

• 49:27Speaker 05

  So Bernie gets these submissions, these tapes. He said, we got 6,000 submissions, for one part. Narrowed it down to hundreds and hundreds. And they're all these self tapes. These kids alone in a room, like with a, with an AI reader, or their own voice. He listens to some of these tapes. He go, oh, wait, they're reading with themselves. They've recorded their voice doing the other lines. Like, just totally. And, you know, we ended up, you know, having a whole rehearsal process and bringing in a bunch of people, like mix and match with the actors who were auditioning. And all these kids would come in live in the room, and they would be so thankful. They go, look, I don't care if I get this job or not. It's so nice to be in a room with people and actually work with, and see

• 50:10Speaker 05

  people live and, and, and read stuff, because these kids are just like trapped alone doing these self tapes. It's, it's a, it's a terrible, terrible situation.

• 50:20Alec Baldwin?

  Same community that it was, I feel, back then.

• 50:22Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah.

• 50:23Alec Baldwin?

  Well, let me just say that, then, let me just say this, which is that I wanted you to do this show because you brought a real important thing to me, to mind. And that is, you've done everything. You've worked all the time for years. You've made a living as an actor for decades now. And what I love is I watch the show, and I realize, watching you and the whole group, but you in particular, I watch and I go, you know, something wonderful is right around the corner. I always felt like when I was working in this business, I, I don't believe this, but, but I started to believe that it's like I'm in that judge phase. I'm in the Phil Bosco phase of my career. I have my tennis clothes on. I put the robe over my tennis clothes. I sit behind the bench and say, order. The jury will disregard that comment from the prosecutor. You may proceed. And that's it. That's my one line for the day. They call lunch. I go play tennis at the bubble. And I mean, that's, I'm in

• 51:07Alec Baldwin?

  the judge phase of my career. And when I see you doing this show, I realize, you never know, there's something beautiful right around the corner. Even if you've been doing this for 40 years, there still might be some wonderful opportunity right there.

• 51:18Speaker 05

  Absolutely, absolutely.

• 51:19Alec Baldwin?

  Do you feel that way about the show?

• 51:21Speaker 05

  Well, I do. You know, I mean, I, it, there was a dark period before we did the show. It was pushing up the hill, but you have to create it. You have to create your own opportunity. So, I mean, this show came about because we created our own opportunity. You know, and so there's a lesson there. And if it leads to other things, fantastic.

• 51:36Alec Baldwin?

  But your character needs a lawyer.

• 51:38Speaker 05

  Well, I'm gonna hold you to that.

• 51:39Alec Baldwin?

  No, no, for any result. I just, I just fill your head with a lot of shit and you walk in like, "God," you know what I mean?

• 51:45Speaker 05

  Well, I'm really happy the, the show resonated with you. We're really proud of it.

• 51:49Alec Baldwin?

  I'm, I'm really jealous. I really, really envy you. That's why it's a great, great group of people. Oh, the same director for all eight episodes?

• 51:55Speaker 05

  Uh, Michael directed six out of the eight and then Trisha Brock, another director, came in and directed two of those, yeah. I tell people, "Come spend some time in Millersburg and, uh, you won't regret it. You'll feel good."

• 52:08Alec Baldwin?

  My thanks to actor and director, John Tenny. This episode was recorded at CDM Studios in New York City. We're produced by Kathleen Russo, Zach McNeese, and Victoria DeMartin. Our engineer is Isaac Kaplan-Wulner. I'm Alec Baldwin. Here's the thing is brought to you by iHeart Radio.

• 52:53Speaker 07

  Building with AI should feel simpler, not harder to navigate. The challenge is finding the right resources to move from exploring AI to building with it. The Microsoft AI Innovators Hub brings together code samples, guided labs, and practical guidance to help you move from exploring AI to building with it. Learn by building at the AI Innovators Hub. Visit aka.ms/ai-innovators. That's aka.ms/ai-innovators. This is Shirley Strawberry from the Steve Harvey Morning Show. Buy smart, drive for less, and trade for more. That's Toyota affordability. And it starts with a great deal on an all-wheel-drive

• 53:36Speaker 07

  Camry, Corolla Cross, or a Corolla Sedan with the latest features and tech. Or test drive a spacious Grand Highlander or adventure-ready RAV4. And with so many hybrid models available, you can enjoy longer trips without all the stops. While Toyota's legendary resale value means you could get more at trade-ins... Get a great deal today and a great value tomorrow. Shop toyota.com for deals and details. Toyota, let's go places.

• 54:04Speaker 00

  This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.