Inside The Bear: Top Chefs Separate Fact from Fiction!!

With the final season of The Bear almost here, Adrienne and Joe revisit the first four seasons of the hit series to discuss what the show gets right about restaurant life, where it misses the mark, and why it has resonated so deeply with chefs and industry professionals. They share their thoughts on kitchen culture, burnout, and healing in the restaurant world, discuss their favorite character arcs, and make predictions about how the series might end. In this episode: What The Bear gets right and wrong about restaurant life How the series portrays trauma, burnout, and healing in the industry Why Richie's character arc feels so authentic Predictions for the final season Whether Carmy could leave restaurants behind and where he may go next Adrienne's story about almost working with one of the show's biggest stars Follow the show: @chefscutpod Follow Adrienne: @chefadriennecheatham Follow Joe: @insta.flamm

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:14Adrienne Cheatham?

  Today on The Chef's Cut, Joe and I are getting you ready for the final season of The Bear. To see Richie develop over the course of the show, that was like my favorite story arc. We're going to tell you what the show absolutely nails and gets wrong about life and fine dining.

• 0:30Joe Flamm?

  The show addresses like when the thing you do becomes your whole identity.

• 0:34Adrienne Cheatham?

  And I have a bold prediction for Carmy's next move. I think in season five, Carmy's going to go to private work. Chef's Cut Nation, you know what time it is. We need 10 seconds of your day. Please remember to rate and review wherever you get pods. It really helps us keep this thing going.

• 0:58Joe Flamm?

  All right, Aje, we got one for the show today that I feel like is, I know for me, it's like nonstop, nonstop. I get people hitting me about this, asking questions. Have you watched it? Have you seen it? We're talking about The Bear. Final season's coming out. I feel like being, obviously being in Chicago, being at restaurants, like I get questions about this show all the time. I'm sure, you know, you being from Chicago, you being in the industry, you get questions about it as well. And I know you and I have talked about it a little bit before. You said you hadn't watched it. You hadn't. But you being the professional you are and being a woman and a chef of the people

• 1:43Joe Flamm?

  have put in the time and hours to watch the show.

• 1:48Adrienne Cheatham?

  You did too. You put in some time too.

• 1:50Joe Flamm?

  Yeah, to watch the show for our listeners, because that's what we do it for.

• 1:54Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah.

• 1:55Joe Flamm?

  That's what we do it for. We do it for them. This isn't about us.

• 1:57Adrienne Cheatham?

  We would have never watched The Bear, but so many people have asked what we think about it, what we like, what we don't like, what they got right, what they got wrong, and especially because the newest season, which is going to be the final season, is Getting ready to premiere. So this is like a public service that we're doing, right?

• 2:14Joe Flamm?

  Like I'm saying, so, so right off, right off the cut, H, you finally got into it. Give me, give me your gut reaction. What, what'd you think? Give me, give me the knee jerk.

• 2:23Adrienne Cheatham?

  Visceral. It was a visceral reaction. Like, you know, when you're sitting at midnight mass? And they sing Ave Maria and your eyes well up with tears. You're not gonna stop cry, but you're like, the emotion just bubbles up so much that you can barely contain it. That is what it was like watching this damn show. I loved it and I hated it. So it was like PTSD, trauma. It brought back a bunch of shit that I had buried so deep, successfully and kept away from like being top of mind. It brought back a lot of shit, but it was also oddly inspiring.

• 3:02Adrienne Cheatham?

  Like watching it again and like seeing that push and that drive and that, that work mode of being like, you know, detail oriented, time, every second counts, every movement matters. Like being back in that feeling it gave, that was like some of the good parts about watching it. There were a lot of bad, there were a lot of bad memories that came back, but.

• 3:26Joe Flamm?

  It, it's pumping a restaurant into your veins, right? It's that dopamine shot. It's the highs, the lows, you know what I mean? We do it for the highs. We are chasing those highs. You know what I mean? Like, um, so, so it's a shot of all of that, right?

• 3:39Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah, a hundred percent. And I think there's some really important things that the show gets right in so many ways. Like obviously the culinary aspect of it, but the kitchen culture of it, it gets right in so many ways. And you know, there's a difference between working in fine dining and casual and you've done both. I've done both. People have eaten at both. So you see the difference in the type of food when you go to these restaurants. But the way people behave in the kitchen is also different. Like fine dining kitchens are quiet as hell. You're, it's like speak when spoken to casual restaurants. There's a little more banter and camaraderie.

• 4:22Adrienne Cheatham?

  Fine dining kitchens are, people are kind of pitted against each other. It's like you're competing with the person next to you instead of always being in cahoots with them.

• 4:31Joe Flamm?

  Right. There's not a lot of

• 4:32Adrienne Cheatham?

  They're your friends, but you're still

• 4:33Joe Flamm?

  There's not a lot of cahooting.

• 4:35Adrienne Cheatham?

  Not a lot of cahooting. You go out for drinks after and kick it, but it's still like, I'm gonna fucking out. I'm gonna kill you today.

• 4:42Joe Flamm?

  Right. And I think it's, you know, I think like part of it is like, I feel like the way they shoot it. Like they do such a good job of like, everything feels like, and I don't know, like the whatever filming terms for this. But it's like, everything feels so close. Like you feel like in it, right? Like it was like, one of the things I noticed it when I was watching it this time was just like, I felt like in that is like, I feel like gives such a good natural intensity of like, what a kitchen is, because part of the intensity of the kitchen is you are right on top of each other. You are elbow to elbow, shoulder to shoulder. Like I've always described like, working a station with somebody, it's like being on a 14 hour road trip with someone where you need to speak to them the whole time.

• 5:25Joe Flamm?

  And like, the only way the car drives is that if you both communicate and you both kind of drive the whole time. You know, and it's like,

• 5:32Adrienne Cheatham?

  It's like back in the day when you had to have printed directions. Instead of the speaker on your phone telling you, you had to have somebody with like printed directions telling you every turn along.

• 5:42Joe Flamm?

  It's like those rally car races where they have the navigator. They're like, right turn 30 degrees, left turn 30 degrees. You know, like that's what like stationed and you know what I mean? At a high intensity restaurant is. And I think, and I, and I think part of that is like the way they shoot it, like everything's so close. Like the conversations are all like, you know, they're on top of each other and they're in corners and they're this and that. And I feel like they captured that intensity and like the physical. Not just like, you know, obviously people in restaurants are very close, but it's like you are physically close to each other all the time. There is no escaping.

• 6:16Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah. Everything's hot, everything's sharp and you're in very close proximity. It's like, it can go down at any fucking moment.

• 6:23Joe Flamm?

  You brought up, you said you felt like there's some stuff that they know that you really like. So, so, so, so throw one at me, I'll throw one at you.

• 6:33Adrienne Cheatham?

  Okay.

• 6:34Joe Flamm?

  Ping the pong a little.

• 6:36Adrienne Cheatham?

  Number one, the dishwasher being the most interesting person in the restaurant. They've got story. They have lived like 25 lives. Like, I can't remember the season one or two, but one of the guys was like, wait, you played for the Cubs?

• 6:52Adrienne Cheatham?

  When he, when the dishwasher told a story about being in the farm league and he was like, wait, you played for the, it's like, who are you? It's like every time you talk to your dishwasher, you hear a new life experience that they had. And it's like, that person is the most interesting person in the room. If you ask me, like chefs are a little more linear and straightforward in their life and career path.

• 7:11Joe Flamm?

  We, we all have that person. Yeah.

• 7:13Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah. Yeah. A hundred percent.

• 7:15Joe Flamm?

  Restaurant people are interested in general. Dishwashers, man. Rob, Rob Johnson was my, my guy there. University was like homies with like Wu-Tang and Khabib and just like Kung Fu master, like all this stuff. And it was just like craziness.

• 7:27Adrienne Cheatham?

  I love it. Okay. So what's one of yours that they nailed that they got right?

• 7:31Joe Flamm?

  I would say like the thing, one of the like, you know, I mean, the things they really got right. I think it's in the first season and it's, uh, I think Joe McHale plays like the fine dining chef, which is hilarious.

• 7:42Adrienne Cheatham?

  In his ear?

• 7:43Joe Flamm?

  From my community.

• 7:45Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah. Yeah. Plays like that.

• 7:47Joe Flamm?

  In his ear.

• 7:49Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah.

• 7:49Joe Flamm?

  And like, man, I worked for, I worked for that chef. You know what I mean? I remember when I was a sister watched that. She's like, was it really like that? I was like,

• 7:57Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yes, people ask me that too.

• 8:00Joe Flamm?

  When I worked at the university club, I worked for, for an old school chef and he was the king of like, he wasn't screaming, but it was just like, he would get up on you like that.

• 8:12Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah.

• 8:12Joe Flamm?

  Is this like, just destroy you? Just like, is this, is this what you're doing? You think this is good enough? You think this is good enough to be here? And just like throw all your me's into the garbage and tell you to start over. And you're just like, like, like, or he would, he would do stuff where he'd be like, you know, I'd be like doing something. I'd do a bad job. And he would like stand next to me, like shit on me for it. And then he would bring someone else over to do it and just make me stand there and watch that person do it and explain to me why they were so much better.

• 8:42Adrienne Cheatham?

  Uh huh.

• 8:44Joe Flamm?

  And like, it wasn't wrong. He wasn't wrong. That other person was significantly

• 8:48Adrienne Cheatham?

  Right.

• 8:48Joe Flamm?

  More masterful at that craft than I was.

• 8:50Adrienne Cheatham?

  Right. Cause they've probably done it before.

• 8:53Joe Flamm?

  It was brutal. It was brutal.

• 8:55Adrienne Cheatham?

  I've, I've worked for chefs like that too.

• 8:57Joe Flamm?

  You know what I mean? And I was some 23 year old kid.

• 9:00Adrienne Cheatham?

  I could take somebody yelling at me like you fucked this up. This is overcooked. This is undercooked. This garnish isn't right. This gel is too loose. The sauce doesn't taste like I can deal with that. But it was like the quiet and the personal that like digs deep. Like you can scream in my face all day and tell me, do you not know how to make hot food? Hot. Do you not know how to serve seasoned tartare? Do you not know how to taste? You know, it's like scream at me and I can filter out the screaming and I can take the lesson. It's like, oh, okay. In that minute and a half of screaming, what I did wrong, what chef is saying is that it needs more salt. Okay, cool. Or this sauce needed a little more slurry to be a little thicker. Got it. But when they get quiet.

• 9:44Joe Flamm?

  Right.

• 9:45Adrienne Cheatham?

  When they get quiet and they get personal.

• 9:48Joe Flamm?

  Yeah, I grew up in a yelling family.

• 9:49Adrienne Cheatham?

  Your mother sucks.

• 9:50Joe Flamm?

  I could do, I could deal with the yelling.

• 9:52Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah, but I can't deal with the, the personal was what hurt.

• 9:56Joe Flamm?

  That was the stuff like.

• 10:00Joe Flamm?

  I, I felt like that stuff was really relatable. The scenes where they're just like, you know, and for me, I think also it's like one, like his cousin's Chicago accent is this, the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard in my life. But I will say the relationship with the cousin hit so hard home for me of like being the one in the family who's like working at all these fancy restaurants and all my cousins being like, oh, you fucking, you know, this guy out there doing all this cute little food. Can't make a beef, can't make regular food. You know what I mean? And I'm like, I can make regular food. Like, you know, there's no way you can't make an Italian beef. It was like a long running feud joke in my family for a long time. And I was like, I was like, it's like they wrote this first season to troll me.

• 10:42Joe Flamm?

  Like my cousins had, you know, producer credits. I would not be surprised. But like that relationship to me was like, I was like, this is the truth of like growing up in like a normal family and then you go do this weird cooking thing where you're working at super fancy restaurants. So they're like, they go, look at you, huh? Yeah, Joe boy fancy guy now, huh? You know, and you're like, I just, I just cook it, guys. Like, you know.

• 11:04Adrienne Cheatham?

  The shit talking on both sides, the family side and the restaurant side was spot on. Like the shit talking in any work environment. I don't care if you work in an office or a restaurant, but the amount of like you, you go to like your work friends, you like, can you believe what they just did? Or did you see that? Or did you read that email? You know, it's like the like the shit talking, but you love them. That's your people. But it's like, you still have to like vent your frustration. You can't let that go without addressing it with your coworkers. So there's like all those little like click gossip and then you all come together.

• 11:37Joe Flamm?

  I was working the line last night. I was on grill and it was like, and I, I was talking a bunch of shit because I was tell like, what about cooks? I was like, I was like, the whole reason I want to work line with you guys is just to come talk shit and chop it up. Because it's the most fun thing you can do is hang out with a bunch of cooks, like talking crazy shit. Like, it's not like, like, just like having the most fun. Like, that's the best part of it. It's just like hanging out shit talking like while you like pound out food.

• 12:05Adrienne Cheatham?

  Okay. So I want to know, Joe, what are some of the things that, because don't get me wrong. I overall, I, I actually enjoyed the show more than I thought I would. But what are some of the things, like some of it was hate watching for me? So what are some of the things that to you, they absolutely got wrong on the show?

• 12:26Joe Flamm?

  Right. So I think it's like, there was a really good, they got it right and really good, got it wrong all in one episode for me. Where it's like they're at his apartment and he's just got like a stack of cookbooks next to his bed. And there's like nothing in the apartment. And I was like, I watched that one with Hillary and she was like, oh my God, it's your apartment on Kedzie. But then he has like thousands of dollars worth of denim. And I'm like, what?

• 12:48Adrienne Cheatham?

  Oh, no. He would have thousands of dollars worth of knives.

• 12:52Joe Flamm?

  Right. I was like, I had two pairs of pants to like five years ago. Like, you know, like, like I, I don't win Top Chef to own multiple pants. Like, um, like you could just.

• 13:02Adrienne Cheatham?

  That's what you did with your winning money. That's what you did with your prize money.

• 13:06Joe Flamm?

  Pants. I wore like four pairs of pants. But like that one, and then the other one that drove me the most insane, and it's a little like weird one. And it's like, you know, the money in the tomato can thing. And it's one thing of like, okay.

• 13:20Joe Flamm?

  Like one, you're hiding money in tomato cans, which is just like that first and foremost, anyone, anyone. Anyone who's anyone knows one that would never happen. It's so hard to reseal cans and we could get into all that thing. That's my number one problem with it.

• 13:32Adrienne Cheatham?

  That's some cartel shit right there. I think they need to, they need to tell us that Mike was like a drug dealer because how do you do that? How do you even do that?

• 13:39Joe Flamm?

  In the city of Chicago, everyone knows all cash is hidden in drop ceilings.

• 13:47Joe Flamm?

  Everything is hidden at a drop ceiling. We are, we have basements. It's all drop ceilings.

• 13:52Adrienne Cheatham?

  Why do you think drop ceilings exist?

• 13:54Joe Flamm?

  You go to old house on the south side and you pop into the drop ceiling, you're gonna find some cash and maybe an old handgun. You know what I mean? Like, that's a drop ceiling activity. That is not a canned activity. Also, the bigger, the bigger thing that drives me nuts about that, in what restaurant on God's green earth are you ordering? A retail sized can of tomatoes. Also like super racism. Those, those are the-

• 14:19Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah, San Marzano, those small cans that you can like buy at the grocery store. No restaurant does that.

• 14:24Joe Flamm?

  They use, they use the Bianco di Napoli.

• 14:30Joe Flamm?

  Uh, like the, the grocery store cans, which is, I use Bianco di Napoli at my restaurants because they're super nice, but we buy the 10 cans, the number 10 cans, the big ass cans. Because you would open a trillion cans of tomatoes a day. No one would ever do that. That would be-

• 14:46Joe Flamm?

  That would be the first thing I noticed when I walked into that restaurant day one. I'd be like-

• 14:50Adrienne Cheatham?

  But Carney did call that out. He did call that out. He said, why was he ordering these small cans instead of the number 10, which are the big cans? It's like bigger than my head. Um, the, you know, so I was glad at least they did address that. Because it was kind of like the elephant in the room for people who work in restaurants. But there were a couple of things that I think they got wrong. In a little bit of a way. Okay, so, one, yes. Pastry does their own thing. Pastry is their own world. But in the first couple of seasons, it really seemed like Marcus, the pastry chef, was just like- Just, just over there, just floating along, doing his own thing. Nobody's checking in on him. Nobody like, he's bringing people's stuff to taste and he's developing and he's growing and he's motivated.

• 15:33Adrienne Cheatham?

  But there, it was like, the whole episode, you just see him doing this. Not like, it was weird. It was just like too much of a disconnect for me and, and maybe they wanted to play that up. Because in restaurants, there is a disconnect, but it seemed like more of a disconnect. It's like the PR department and the accounting department, but it's really like PR and marketing. Where they should be a little bit closer. Um, so I thought that was weird. And then the scene where Sydney cooked Chilean sea bass at home.

• 16:03Adrienne Cheatham?

  I, I don't know any chef who really likes Chilean sea bass. I'm sorry. I thought that, I call bullshit on that. I do not know a single chef who likes Chilean sea bass enough to cook it at home. I mean, we're talking Patagonian toothfish.

• 16:18Joe Flamm?

  Also this shit's, also this shit's like.

• 16:20Adrienne Cheatham?

  Besides kale.

• 16:21Joe Flamm?

  Thirty-one dollars a pound, thirty-one dollars a pound at Whole Foods.

• 16:25Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah.

• 16:25Joe Flamm?

  You know what I mean? So you bought a thirty-one dollar piece of fish to cook at home on your day off.

• 16:29Adrienne Cheatham?

  Which for what used to be a trash fish that had a glow up like kale. Kale and Chilean sea bass had two of the biggest glow ups in culinary history. I mean, nobody wanted them. Disgusting, cheap. Now, it's like, uh-uh, nah, uh-uh. I, I call bullshit on that. Sorry.

• 16:55Adrienne Cheatham?

  One of the things that I think gets lost in the nuance, when the whole thing was going on with Renee Redzepi. People are like, what do you expect when you have high standards and when you're under the pressure of gaining and retaining Michelin stars? But I think that something that people miss is you can take that pressure and not react that way. Yes, you're stressed and all your senses are heightened, but does that make it okay to lash out? And I think that's something that they absolutely got right, is showing that behavior is not okay. Because if we had seen the bear twenty years ago, I'd have been like, yeah, that's just how it is.

• 17:32Joe Flamm?

  Right.

• 17:33Adrienne Cheatham?

  But now. In the context of today's society, you're like, oh, no, yeah, it does look bad when you see it. When you're experiencing it, it's totally fine. But then when you see it reflected back at you, you're like, ooh, that's not okay.

• 17:45Joe Flamm?

  And I think that's kind of the point, right? Like, I think people are like, oh, they're like glorifying it. I'm like, I don't think they are. I think they're glorifying it the same way as like, when you watch like one of those old like mobster like gangster movies, you know what I mean? Where it's like they're glorifying the lifestyle, but then what happens in the end? It's all like good and well until like, right, somebody's dead in a cornfield. I think that that's kind of the point. It's like where I've come around to on this is like that. They're trying to show is like that. It's not the way and it doesn't work. And just because it's what it was, doesn't mean it's what it should be. Like, that's kind of more of like, where I think it like gets it right, where it shows that like, hey, like, just because this is what it was, the screaming, the yelling craziness, it's like, that doesn't get you where you need to be. That doesn't,

• 18:29Joe Flamm?

  like, it'll cauterize your team for a while, but it won't give you longevity. It won't give you sustained growth. It doesn't give you a sustained restaurant. You know what I mean? You're thinking about walking away. You're thinking about all these things. So I think that is a really, really good point it makes, whether it means to or not. And maybe that's just my weird Joe take of it, but that's how I kind of feel.

• 18:48Adrienne Cheatham?

  I think it's it's weird. So I had this chef that I worked for who would scream at you for any little mistake you made, anything. You breathe too loudly. You look like you're coming down with a cold, like whatever it is, you're too bald, baldy, you're too short, shorty, like anything. Like, he would just tear you up. But if you did something right, never a compliment. Never a positive word of encouragement and it made you want it more. And so once in a while, because he'd give you a little nugget of a compliment here, they're like, you didn't fuck it up this time, you know, and it's like, oh, well, if I didn't fuck it up, maybe next time it'll be good, you know? So it's like that Stockholm syndrome in a way where like,

• 19:27Adrienne Cheatham?

  I had a coworker at La Bernardin who was named Aaron. He's down in Atlanta now with um, with Ron. They've got a restaurant called Lazy Betty. And one day, the the chef who ran La Bernardin for like 30 years, a guy named Chris, tearing everybody up left and right. And people kept coming to him for approval on things and you could see everybody was so eager to bring him out of this bad mood. Everybody wanted to be the one that he complimented. And Aaron, just in the middle of the line one day was like, daddy's never gonna love you.

• 19:59Adrienne Cheatham?

  We all fell out laughing because that's the feeling. It's like you want, you want that approval. And he said, if I don't say anything, that is a compliment.

• 20:09Joe Flamm?

  Right. And I mean, and that was the way, and I worked, I worked for chefs like that. And I don't know if it's okay, whatever. And that was like the way they learned to get results, right? They worked at the highest level and that's what they thought. They pit people against each other. You know what I mean? They tell you, you know, I worked for a chef who, if it was the other sous chef's day off, he'd be like, oh, you know, he says you're really lazy. You don't get anything done when you're here. That things are a mess when he comes in, you know, he's carrying all the water. And then he'd say the same thing that I was saying the same thing about him on, you know, his day off. He'd be like, oh, Joe says you don't do anything that, you know, it's all Joe all the time that he's really leading this kitchen. It was me and the other sous chef. And like, the other sous chef would kind of, kind of fall for it.

• 20:52Joe Flamm?

  He was more of that fine dining world and he'd be like, oh my God, Joe's like saying this stuff about me. But like, I knew there was just, just no way. Because it was like, this guy had come in late. The cooks were all my cooks. I was like, there's no way this dude is talking shit. Like, you know what I mean? I would hear about it all the time from all these cooks. Like, these are all my homies. Like, you know what I mean? Like, there's just no way. And so like him and I would get in huge fights about it, but that was like how he came up. He was pitted against the sous chefs next to him and he felt like that made him better. Cause he wanted to show that he was the best sous chef. But I think it's the question, you know, that I came back to with it was like, me being the best sous chef isn't being just better than the person next to me. Me being the best sous chef is working on being the best sous chef.

• 21:35Joe Flamm?

  Not in this kitchen, but being the best at my job for doing this job, no matter where I am. So it's like, that's a completely different conversation, other than just trying to be a little bit better than the person next to me. And it's something I talk about with my cooks all the time. Like they'll get like, when they start getting like that. I'm like, your competition is not next to you. It is on this street. It is in buildings.

• 21:56Adrienne Cheatham?

  It's with yourself.

• 21:57Joe Flamm?

  Right. It's with yourself. And it's like, you know, it's like, you think like, like, okay, cool. You're the best cook of this slide. It's like you need to be, you know, like, you're trying to be the best chef of this street. Like being the best cook of this line is, is, you know, like a step of a thousand that you have to take to get where you want to go. But it's like, if you can figure out how to be, you know, the best cook for the rest of these cooks on this slide, be the most supportive, the one who gets everybody around them, the one they want to follow, the one they go to with questions. It's like, that's a way different breed.

• 22:30Adrienne Cheatham?

  Before we get to season four and the way the show left off before the final season comes out, I do want to talk a little bit about Richie.

• 22:40Joe Flamm?

  Cousin.

• 22:41Adrienne Cheatham?

  He is, to me, that is the exemplar of the type of person. It's not that you had a chaotic home or all this, but the type of people who are in the restaurant industry, a lot of times like, I don't, I can't tell you how many cooks I've talked to who got bad grades. They were dyslexic and they never got encouragement. They never got compliments. They got bad grades. They're tactile learners, not book reading learners and never were necessarily the parents favorite or society was like, oh, he's a good kid or she's a good kid. They felt like they had potential. They just couldn't figure out how or where they could be successful. And then they make their way to a restaurant.

• 23:27Adrienne Cheatham?

  And it gives you a purpose. You know that you can make people feel good. You know that you can do something. And to see Richie develop over the course of the show, to me, that was like, I mean, that was like my favorite story arc, the Richie character and that arc of story to me really, really hits the nail on the head about why people are so drawn to this and why we love doing it.

• 23:52Joe Flamm?

  Well, I mean, how many people do we both know where it's like, you know, have said to us for people we've had on the pod from, you know, chefs, restaurateurs, so many people was like, it was the first place where they found and they were like, oh, this makes sense. Like they found that, that place, right? You know what I mean? And I know for me it was for sure. And I think it's like, it's a simple idea of. What you did before there doesn't really matter. And like of the line, the restaurant is a great equalizer and it's hard work over everything. And you either like, you know, if you do your job well, nothing else really matters. Nothing of what you did last night, nothing of you do it, you did before you got there of like who you were like. If you come in and you bust ass and you kick ass, whether you're, you know what I mean? Busting tables, washing dishes, working the line, whatever.

• 24:37Joe Flamm?

  If you bust ass, like people are like, dude, you're the man. You're the best. Like, oh, Aegis here, sick. Like, you'd already be like, she's gonna crush. Like, and that feeling of like, you know, of validation of like, feeling part of a team and feeling like, you know, it was like, feeling like, oh, there's something I'm good at. I'm good at something. And it's not something where it's like, I have to get like crazy skilled at right away. I just have to work hard. And like, the, the thing is like, if I'm just willing to grind and push, like, I can be good. And I think it was like, it was the first thing in my life that I realized.

• 25:14Adrienne Cheatham?

  Richie, I love that.

• 25:15Joe Flamm?

  Yeah, that it was like, if I just grind at this, I can get good at this. And it's motivated me for every other aspect of my life of like, hey, like you were really bad at this once upon a time. And you just worked really hard at it all the time and you got better at it. And it's like, I think that, that is the most relatable character of the show in that regard.

• 25:33Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah, I love that. And the last episode of season four, where Sydney said, you know, that she wanted Richie to be a partner. To me, that was, that was touching. And to see him like tear, like I was crying along with him. I was just like, oh my, I wasn't like tears running down my face, but I couldn't see straight. I was, I was a little blurry eyed.

• 26:04Adrienne Cheatham?

  Let's get into a little bit about what we think is gonna happen in season five. Because season four, I didn't see it coming that Karmie was gonna relinquish his ownership stake in the restaurant and step away. That to me was like, ooh, ooh, it's now shit's getting real. Because this is what a lot of chefs in our industry are dealing with. And a lot of people in general, you do something for so long, whether you're a lawyer, you're a TV producer, whatever it is, you dedicate your life to this thing. It kind of defines who you are. It's more than a job. It's a lifestyle and. You're like, but am I happy?

• 26:44Joe Flamm?

  Hmm.

• 26:45Adrienne Cheatham?

  Is it getting back to me as much as I've given to it? And I thought that was like, oh, okay, now shit's about to get real in season five. And Joseph, I have a bold prediction about Carmy.

• 26:59Joe Flamm?

  You think he's gonna go be a sales rep?

• 27:02Adrienne Cheatham?

  For Cisco?

• 27:03Joe Flamm?

  Yeah. That would be the best. That would be the most like true line through of like, you know, he's just like, he gets super fat. And like, you know, it's like walking around, it's like, yeah, I used to cook, you know what I mean? I get it. I get it. I get what you guys are going through right now.

• 27:20Adrienne Cheatham?

  I can get you good prices.

• 27:21Joe Flamm?

  Yeah, don't, don't listen to them. This fish is, this fish is, this fish is the best fish.

• 27:29Adrienne Cheatham?

  Oh, so spot on. Either that, that is a real possibility. You're right. But, okay. I think in season five, Carmy's gonna go to private work. I think Carmy's gonna become a private chef.

• 27:41Joe Flamm?

  Wow, you think this is the moment of private chefs right now where we're just, you know what I mean? He just, have you been recruiting them? Have you been making the push for this?

• 27:49Adrienne Cheatham?

  I mean, it's such a huge part of our industry now, like so many chefs left restaurants during COVID and went private. And some did start going back to restaurants. Don't get me wrong, but the salary increases, the work life balance benefits. You know, it is, it is very different. You get to get back to the love of cooking and creating without some of that outside pressure. You do have to kind of get to know yourself again. It is, it is like, it's a kick in the gut for a bit. Like you have to figure out your motivation again. I didn't see myself doing private work. And at first I was like, oh, I'm going back to restaurants in one year. I'm going back to restaurants in two years. It's been a few years now and I'm still in it.

• 28:34Adrienne Cheatham?

  But it's so gratifying in ways that I didn't see coming. And I think if you really want to heal Carmy, I think that's what's gonna do it.

• 28:43Joe Flamm?

  Well, I, that's a really good take.

• 28:46Adrienne Cheatham?

  My trauma, but he might heal his.

• 28:48Joe Flamm?

  I think that's a really good take, but I think it's, I think it speaks to the bigger point of, you know, like the show addresses, like when, you know, the thing you do becomes your whole identity. And it's really hard for it not to. And it's like, I try to balance it where it's like, I know for me where it's like, I want my whole identity to just be like, oh. I'm a chef. Everything's a chef. You already be like, just that's just the whole

• 29:09Adrienne Cheatham?

  Right.

• 29:10Joe Flamm?

  identity. Like I'm a person outside of that. You know what I mean? I'm a son. I'm a father. I'm, you know, I mean, I'm all, you know, I'm a husband, all these things. And like, it's just if you get so caught in like, this is who you are. It's like, it's what I do. It's what I love. It's what I'm super passionate about. It's what I think about all the time. But like, I think it's important, like if you get too lost in that sauce, you forget about like, hey, there's a whole bunch of life going on. That's pretty awesome. And it's like, do I have the best balance?

• 29:38Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah.

• 29:39Joe Flamm?

  I won't say that. Um, I don't think anyone would believe me if I did. But you already be-

• 29:45Adrienne Cheatham?

  Any balance?

• 29:46Joe Flamm?

  I mean-

• 29:47Adrienne Cheatham?

  You, I think you do. You make, you make a strong effort to have that balance.

• 29:51Joe Flamm?

  Yeah, I make effort. You know what I mean? I'm, I'm, I try to be, you know, like it's cheesy as, as like bro podcasty is this gonna fucking sound, but like fucking intentional with my time and shit. But I think like the, the interesting idea of like him looking at walking away, I think is like that one is one, you know, you and I have seen in friends and mentors and people where it's like, you see them climb to what everyone on the outside considers the pinnacle, right? You know, from, uh,

• 30:20Adrienne Cheatham?

  Right.

• 30:20Joe Flamm?

  you know, awards to acknowledgements to, you know, respective peers in industry. But like, if they're not getting validation from it, if they're not filling their cup with it, so to speak. Like, it just is like, and you see it in, you know, and I've, and I've seen very good friends go through it. Where I'm like, you know, like what, then what, like what's gonna be the next thing that's gonna make you feel fulfilled? What's gonna make that next thing, you know, and they're just, they're constantly chasing it. And it's like, and if you don't recalibrate it every once in a while and be like, okay, like what am I doing that I really like? You know, what am I doing that I don't like? Where do I want to put more time and energy? Where, what do I need to let go of? Right?

• 31:02Joe Flamm?

  And I think like that is a massive challenge. I think for all people and all things, but you know, I feel like as chefs, like, you know, I know, I've just watched so many friends go through. And so many, you know, people I worked for.

• 31:14Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah, I saw my mom go through it too.

• 31:16Joe Flamm?

  Sure.

• 31:16Adrienne Cheatham?

  She was in restaurants my whole childhood, but she was struggling for a while with what do I do? I give so much of myself, my time, my energy to this restaurant when I have a family. She comes from a massive family and had two kids and a husband. And she's like, how do I do all this? And it's not giving me back anything. It's barely even paying me enough. So she wound up leaving. So, you know, good for her. That was like a success story and it never registered at the time. Like you can leave restaurants. To me, I felt like once you're in it, what like, what else am I qualified to do?

• 31:50Joe Flamm?

  I mean, I constantly tell people like, I'm like, this is not the only path. My path does not have to be your path. This is just the one I'm on and I love and I want to do. Like, I love this shit, but if you don't, that's fine. Like, you know what I mean? Like, it's just like, you know, it's one of those things. It's like some days I wish I didn't. You know what I mean? It's like, uh, I think it's an old Jenny Lewis song. It's like, she's like, you know, you are what you love, not what loves you back. And that is, you know what I mean? Like the restaurants don't love you back sometimes. And it's like, and that's, that's the pain of it. But it's like, I can't stop loving them.

• 32:34Adrienne Cheatham?

  So do you have any predictions about season five, Joe?

• 32:38Joe Flamm?

  I mean, besides my sales rep one, no, I, I, I, I feel like I have no idea where this goes from here. Uh, you know, and it's like, I always feel like a final season is such a double edged sword. Cause it's like so many shows I've loved, just like in the final season, just absolutely implode on themselves. And here's like, you just couldn't figure out how to wrap it up, huh? Either they try to wrap it up too nice or they wrap it up too messy.

• 33:04Adrienne Cheatham?

  They've done so well.

• 33:05Joe Flamm?

  I don't know, like if he's going to fly a dragon into, you know, Green Bay and destroy it. Like, I'm not sure, you know, like, so.

• 33:14Adrienne Cheatham?

  That would be amazing.

• 33:15Joe Flamm?

  That would be, that would be sick.

• 33:16Adrienne Cheatham?

  Burn down the Packers stadium.

• 33:19Joe Flamm?

  You're right. So, um, you know, I guess we'll have to wait and see.

• 33:24Adrienne Cheatham?

  And then go get the Vikings stadium after. Yeah. I mean, I think that's a phenomenal prediction, Joe. Well, I think it's time we take it to the walk in and I think I'm up this week.

• 33:35Joe Flamm?

  I believe you are.

• 33:37Adrienne Cheatham?

  Are you uh, you ready for a little, little confession?

• 33:41Joe Flamm?

  Gimme the tea, it's hot outside, pour it up hot in here.

• 33:45Adrienne Cheatham?

  Okay, so it's not a work-related accident, it's actually related to the bear, which I almost, almost, I was this close to being like, really fucking cool. I was this close to being really cool. Years ago, not long after we filmed Top Chef, but I don't even think if it had aired yet, or maybe, maybe the season had just aired and ended, but around that time, a woman from a culinary school in California called me and said, hey, we have an actor who's training for a role in a restaurant show, and she's a black woman, we'd love to put her with somebody to work with, come out here and do some work, training her in the kitchen,

• 34:29Adrienne Cheatham?

  and talking her through your experiences and what the mindset is, how you felt being in fine dining, the pressure of it, you know, did you fit in, did you not fit in, just tell it all. I was like, okay, like as we're cooking, like, okay, cool. That would be interesting, like, I'd be up for it. I would have gone out there for like, one or two months, and she's like, great, I'm gonna put your name in, didn't say, couldn't say what the show was, couldn't say the names of the actors or producers, but it didn't work out. They went with another chef, who I think was local to California, and who had a restaurant at the time. And so, I was this close to having been the one to work with, the main character Io, Eda Biri, who plays Sydney,

• 35:14Adrienne Cheatham?

  so I could have been like, so fucking cool, if I had gotten that job.

• 35:18Joe Flamm?

  Man, what could have been, huh?

• 35:21Adrienne Cheatham?

  Oh, I could have been so cool, oh my god.

• 35:25Joe Flamm?

  Hey, that's all right, you're so pretty cool, I mean, I mean, you're sitting, you're sitting in France right now, so I think you've made some, some decent choices.

• 35:33Adrienne Cheatham?

  Aw, thanks, bro, appreciate that.

• 35:37Adrienne Cheatham?

  Well, Zo, I think that's it for this week. I can't wait till season five comes out, because I actually, I never thought I would watch the bear, but now I actually wanna see what happens with all these characters.

• 35:48Joe Flamm?

  Let's go, season five, the season of the sales rep.

• 35:54Adrienne Cheatham?

  That is it for this episode of The Chef's Cut. Head to the comments to share your predictions for the final season of The Bear. And don't forget to subscribe on YouTube and follow us on Instagram. For Joe Flamm, I'm Adrienne Cheatham, and this has been The Chef's Cut. Life beyond the past.