Chef Kwame Onwuachi on Turning His Life Around, Top Chef & Cooking with Keke

Chef Kwame Onwuachi joins Keke and shares how watching Barack Obama succeed inspired him to change the course of his life after getting into trouble as a young man. He traces his journey from the Bronx and Nigeria to Top Chef, reflecting on failure, finding his voice through food and building Tatiana into one of NYC’s hottest restaurants. Plus, he talks cooking at the Met Gala and teaches Keke a recipe from his new cookbook, All Hours: Crazy Good Food for Whatever, Whenever. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Keke Palmer?

  My guest today is a chef who is helping reshape how we think about culture and the stories we tell through food. Kwame Onwuachi is a James Beard Award winning chef, restaurateur, and author who opened five restaurants before turning 30. As if that wasn't enough, his restaurant Tatiana was named number one in New York City by The New York Times two years in a row. And he was the chef at the Met Gala in 2025. I was there. It was good. But Kwame's work feels bigger than the kitchen, celebrating Caribbean, West African, Creole, and New York flavors in a way that brings more people into the conversation around what great food, heritage, and fine dining really looks like.

• 0:44Keke Palmer?

  Kwame and I are about to cook, literally. So I hope y'all came hungry, because baby, this is Keke Palmer, and baby, this is Kwame. Today's episode is brought to you by our presenting sponsor, Starbucks.

• 1:27Keke Palmer?

  Fall's most iconic beverage is here. The Starbucks Pumpkin Spice Latte is back to kick off the season. Order now on the app. Chef Kwame!

• 1:38Speaker 01

  How you doing?

• 1:42Keke Palmer?

  This is literally the most easy breezy thing for me.

• 1:46Speaker 01

  I feel like we're back in the crib, just chilling.

• 1:48Keke Palmer?

  I mean, because the people don't know how we met.

• 1:51Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:52Keke Palmer?

  I mean, we met with friends. I come to your house, I'm like, who, everybody was like, yo, I was dating this dude at the time. He's like, oh, I mean, my homeboy Kwame, my homeboy Kwame. You know, he's this dope chef. I was like, okay. We come to your house, and then your house becomes like the spot.

• 2:05Speaker 01

  The place.

• 2:06Keke Palmer?

  Well, actually, I'm actually really pissed, me and all my friends. We're like, damn, where Kwame at? Because we used to pull up to that West Hollywood spot, man, and you would have playing mafia. We had people playing mafia. You would randomly chef up some stuff.

• 2:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:19Keke Palmer?

  He don't cook for free, y'all. Let me just let y'all know. Just because your homeboy is a chef, he don't cook for everybody. But every now and then, you give us a little something.

• 2:26Speaker 01

  Little something, little something.

• 2:27Keke Palmer?

  Those parties were so fun.

• 2:28Speaker 01

  We had so much fun. And it was like two or three times a week.

• 2:32Keke Palmer?

  Yes, yes. Because you always was hosting.

• 2:35Speaker 01

  I was always hosting.

• 2:36Keke Palmer?

  And I feel like you bring those, that vibe to your restaurants, too.

• 2:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, I had a standing order for liquor. Um, and like, it was, it was a whole situation.

• 2:45Keke Palmer?

  It was.

• 2:46Speaker 01

  And anytime at night, up till like 3:00 a.m., you know, you could hit me and be like, what are you doing?

• 2:50Keke Palmer?

  I know.

• 2:51Speaker 01

  I got people over, come through.

• 2:52Keke Palmer?

  When are you coming back?

• 2:53Speaker 01

  I'm working on it.

• 2:54Keke Palmer?

  Because I really do miss you. And when I feel like when I'm in New York, do you give that same energy at the crib? You never, I never been here.

• 2:59Speaker 01

  No, no, because I'm working here. I feel like New York for me is like work.

• 3:04Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 3:05Speaker 01

  When I'm in New York, I'm working, I'm taking meetings, I'm at the rest, I'm going to the restaurant right after this.

• 3:10Keke Palmer?

  Yeah. I mean, the restaurant is crazy. Let me tell y'all something real quick. This is gonna make Kwame laugh. So I go to Tatiana's a lot, and I, and I'm really lucky that I get a chance to, because it's actually like the hardest restaurant to get into.

• 3:21Speaker 01

  We are actually friends, so.

• 3:23Keke Palmer?

  So I'd be like, Kwame, tell the people, let me, let me up in there. So they let me up in there, I bring a couple of friends with me, and I'm like, you know, Kwame's like, I got you guys, just like, whatever y'all want, whatever, whatever. So they bring us all this food, more than we even order. At the end of it, guys, a $4,000 bill.

• 3:38Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 3:39Keke Palmer?

  Like I told y'all, just because he my friend, it don't mean a damn thing. My, my friends are like, what the hell? Why, why you hook us up? We need to be hooked up. Yo, but the food, it was so, I mean, the food there is so good, that menu. It was, it's kind of like the, the most insane food I've ever tasted, because all the flavors that you done put up in it.

• 4:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, it all comes from the heart, you know, and I think that's what good food, um, it's intentional. You know, that, that's what makes good food, it's intentional. And also the vibe and everything.

• 4:10Keke Palmer?

  But you taught me so much about the artistry of being a chef. Because I think that, I mean, for me, I don't know everything about all chefs, but I never thought a chef was you.

• 4:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:19Keke Palmer?

  Like cool, fly, mixing curated people with food. Like, I never knew that that's what chefs was doing. Like, I just thought, okay, chefs was cooking, I'm thinking of Gordon Ramsay. I'm not thinking about what you bring to it.

• 4:33Speaker 01

  Well, we're multi-dimensional, you know, and I think a true chef is trying to tell a story. It's more than just a dish. Cooking is, I don't want to say it's easy, but it's, you know, that's part of, you know, you sing, right? You know, someone could say, hit a note, you can hit a note, but can you tell a story with your song, right? Can you tell a story when you're acting? Like, what are you, what is the message you're trying to portray? How do you get people behind it to believe in it? And that's, it's no different with food.

• 5:00Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, yeah. Let's get into the pre-show pull-up questions, then I'll get into the beginnings of Kwame. Um, I know that your, your zodiac sign is a Scorpio. You are very, very Scorpio to the G.

• 5:09Speaker 01

  Okay, okay. What does that mean, when people say that? Because I don't follow the zodiac stuff.

• 5:13Keke Palmer?

  You have mystery to you.

• 5:14Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 5:15Keke Palmer?

  You're very about yo stuff. Like, you are not afraid to be like, this Kwame's world.

• 5:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:19Keke Palmer?

  That's very Scorpio. Scorpios are very much like that.

• 5:22Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 5:23Keke Palmer?

  You always have some crazy love situation going on. That's like very Scorpio. It's like, who's in Kwame's life now? Who's the lucky lady?

• 5:29Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 5:30Keke Palmer?

  Um, yeah, I feel like those, and I, I mean, I've never gotten on your bad side, but I feel like it's not one I would want to be on.

• 5:36Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 5:37Keke Palmer?

  Because Scorpios will be on that scorpion on you.

• 5:38Speaker 01

  That's fair, that's fair.

• 5:40Keke Palmer?

  Um, love language, this is fun. I'm interested to see what this is. So acts of service and words of affirmation. Now, this is just how you receive or also what you give?

• 5:49Speaker 01

  I think I give all of them.

• 5:51Keke Palmer?

  Kwame, please!

• 5:55Speaker 01

  I give them all. If there, if there's five, I give seven, I don't know.

• 5:59Keke Palmer?

  I'm falling. You are a mess. You are. The words of affirmation feels right, though.

• 6:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, just being appreciative, yeah, and then acts of service, you know, like, I feel like being in, in, you know, someone's life, especially someone that's like in hospitality, like we give, I give a lot, you know, and receiving that, it doesn't have to be big acts of service, but it should feel like, or appreciated in a way.

• 6:25Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, I've seen you in a relationship, you really was treating her like a queen. It was very like, really pulling out the red carpet, and, yeah, my queen. Like, it was so bad. I was like, okay, Kwame, okay. Um, what's a question you wish you were asked in more interviews? Would you like a drink? Oh my, also, what's your address so I can send a gift? Now, that's good.

• 6:49Speaker 01

  That would be nice, you know?

• 6:51Keke Palmer?

  That would be nice.

• 6:52Speaker 01

  Instead of like, what's your favorite dish to make? Like, you know, like, ask me something that I give a [BLEEP] about.

• 6:56Keke Palmer?

  So wait a minute, what is your favorite drink?

• 6:58Speaker 01

  Uh, you know, Casamigos.

• 7:00Keke Palmer?

  Oh, yeah, because we was always doing that.

• 7:02Speaker 01

  That's it.

• 7:03Keke Palmer?

  Oh my gosh, can we talk about me and you? Was it after, was it the Met Gala night? What was it?

• 7:09Speaker 01

  Uh, no.

• 7:10Keke Palmer?

  When we went all over?

• 7:11Speaker 01

  I think it was Fashion Week or something. It was Fashion Week, we went all over.

• 7:14Keke Palmer?

  Dude, first of all.

• 7:16Speaker 01

  I think my, my driver took us everywhere.

• 7:18Keke Palmer?

  Everywhere.

• 7:19Speaker 01

  And we were drinking.

• 7:20Keke Palmer?

  And by the way, guys, I hate to say that Kwame is right, but Kwame be right. He was first of all, so annoying with us. He was like, this spot ain't the spot, let's go. This spot ain't the spot, let's go. Me and Norm was like, why is nothing up to Kwame's standards? And then you were like, we should have stayed at Savannah James' spot, and you were right.

• 7:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, it turned up.

• 7:37Keke Palmer?

  Savannah James' spot is it.

• 7:38Speaker 01

  And it was chill, you know what I mean? Like, because when it's chill, it's like we are the party. Like, we don't need other people to make it the party, because we're just, we're with ourselves and we're comfortable. And if anybody we see in the mix is cool, but like, we're not trying to be in the mix on, you know, and paparazzi. Like, you know what I mean? It's like, yeah, it's like, let's be in a place that's chill and very controlled.

• 8:00Keke Palmer?

  I kept thinking about that the whole night. We stayed, we was up to like 4:00 a.m. or whatever.

• 8:03Speaker 01

  And we were bouncing around all those places, it was crazy.

• 8:06Keke Palmer?

  And they wasn't even giving nothing.

• 8:07Speaker 01

  Zero.

• 8:08Keke Palmer?

  But Savannah James' spot?

• 8:09Speaker 01

  It was chill. Casamigos on demand, we can get water whenever we wanted.

• 8:12Keke Palmer?

  They had food.

• 8:13Speaker 01

  Bathroom was empty.

• 8:14Keke Palmer?

  Gave us a section.

• 8:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:16Keke Palmer?

  That was really the one. Yeah, you were right, you were right.

• 8:18Speaker 01

  It's all good.

• 8:19Keke Palmer?

  Who is someone you've met that made you feel starstruck? I mean, obviously Obama. I remember when I first met you, you took me, did a picture, you're like, James Beard, me and Obama.

• 8:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:26Keke Palmer?

  I was like, who is this dude? I gotta know this guy. I mean, what were you thinking? How was that experience?

• 8:32Speaker 01

  It was cool, it was Easter egg roll in DC, it's their tradition for Easter, and I cooked, and I got to meet him, and I don't know, it was like a long line of us, like, waiting to meet him. It wasn't the Oval Office, it was like above the Oval Office, whatever that room is.

• 8:49Keke Palmer?

  Fabulous.

• 8:50Speaker 01

  And, you know, he's like, Kwame, what's up? And I was like, oh, [BLEEP], he knows who I am. Of, of course, they probably had a, a card before.

• 8:57Keke Palmer?

  Sure, sure, yeah, but still.

• 8:58Speaker 01

  But it felt genuine, you know, and it was just like a larger-than-life moment that I'll never forget. I feel like he's such an icon.

• 9:06Keke Palmer?

  Yes!

• 9:07Speaker 01

  And he changed my life.

• 9:08Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 9:09Speaker 01

  When I was like down and out and doing things that were not conducive to a productive life.

• 9:16Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 9:17Speaker 01

  When I saw Barack Obama walk across the stage, I was like, I can do anything. Here's a black man who became the highest level of, of office in the world, what am I doing with my life? I need to start, I need to start cooking or something, you know, and, and honestly, that moment changed my life. So seeing him in person was, I don't know, it was an out-of-body experience almost.

• 9:36Keke Palmer?

  It's so dope to hear that.

• 9:37Speaker 01

  And then he comes to the restaurant now, just cool. So it's more regular, but like, when I first met him, it was like, holy [BLEEP].

• 9:43Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, you were speaking to something about just your upbringing. When I was doing the research, getting ready for this interview, I didn't know that you was a badass little kid, because since I've known you, you've always been like a very young prodigy chef. So it's like, I'm like, when you was bad? Like, growing up in the Bronx and then Nigeria, your mama sent you away because she was tired of you? Like, take me back to these early days, Kwame.

• 10:06Speaker 01

  I mean, it's, it's easy to veer from the wrong path, I guess, like, in that, when you're in that environment. And, um, you know, shout out to my mom for noticing where my life could go. So she wanted to nip that in the bud, and she sent me to Nigeria. She told me I was going on vacation for two years. I don't know why I believed her.

• 10:25Keke Palmer?

  Because two years of vacation, that sounds.

• 10:27Speaker 01

  But I was a kid, you know? Well, she told me it was two weeks, to be fair. And then I got out there and I was like, holy [BLEEP], this is not a vacation. I'm not in Lagos. This is like three hours into the village. My grandfather was the chief of the village. We had no running water, electricity, um, and then two years later, I came back.

• 10:45Keke Palmer?

  So did you learn a new dialect while you were there? Like, or were they speaking?

• 10:49Speaker 01

  I learned like pidgin, you know, which is like their patois.

• 10:53Keke Palmer?

  Wow.

• 10:54Speaker 01

  But, um, in school, I went to school out there, they spoke English in school, because they wanted to teach everybody English.

• 10:58Keke Palmer?

  Sure, sure.

• 10:59Speaker 01

  Um, but it definitely gave, it definitely whipped me into shape.

• 11:01Keke Palmer?

  So before then, you was in the Bronx. At what age you moved to Nigeria?

• 11:05Speaker 01

  10.

• 11:06Keke Palmer?

  10, you were there till you were about 12.

• 11:07Speaker 01

  12, yeah.

• 11:08Keke Palmer?

  13, you came back. Was this, when did you stop by in Louisiana?

• 11:10Speaker 01

  I stopped by Louisiana, uh, after high school.

• 11:14Keke Palmer?

  After high school.

• 11:15Speaker 01

  So my first year in college, I ended up getting kicked out of college. Yeah.

• 11:19Keke Palmer?

  What you was doing?

• 11:22Speaker 01

  I was getting caught. I wasn't doing nothing wrong, I was just.

• 11:26Keke Palmer?

  I was getting, that's the realest thing. That's very real.

• 11:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:30Keke Palmer?

  That's what I was doing, I was getting caught.

• 11:31Speaker 01

  I was getting caught. But before I got caught up by the police, I, that's when I saw Obama all across the stage. And I've like, I, I was, you know, I was.

• 11:42Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 11:42Speaker 01

  Dealing in pharmaceuticals.

• 11:44Keke Palmer?

  Right, yeah.

• 11:45Speaker 01

  So I flushed everything down the toilet. And I bought a one-way ticket to Louisiana to visit, to, to live with my mom and get my.

• 11:52Keke Palmer?

  Cause that's where your mom moved after the Bronx.

• 11:54Speaker 01

  Exactly, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I went down there. It was Baton Rouge, actually.

• 11:59Keke Palmer?

  Wow, that Rouge is down there.

• 12:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:02Keke Palmer?

  It's the real, you know, no city vibe.

• 12:04Speaker 01

  No.

• 12:05Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 12:05Speaker 01

  No, no, no.

• 12:06Keke Palmer?

  So I mean, what role did cooking play in your life? I mean, it's funny because when people talk about finding their calling, it's like, the signs were always there, you know, even if you didn't pay that much attention to it. So were you already cooking when you were a kid?

• 12:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, so my mom is a chef. My mom's a chef.

• 12:22Keke Palmer?

  How did I not know that your mom was a chef?

• 12:23Speaker 01

  You know my mom's a chef. You've eaten her food before. I, I think so.

• 12:28Keke Palmer?

  Well, I'm a girl, Kwame.

• 12:29Speaker 01

  No, no, no, not, first of all. Let's not do that. Don't do that. I mean, which camera do I have to look at? Do not do that.

• 12:39Keke Palmer?

  When did I eat your mama food?

• 12:40Speaker 01

  Okay, my mom.

• 12:41Keke Palmer?

  I do, now it's coming back to me. I do remember you telling me this, actually.

• 12:44Speaker 01

  You remember, there was a party I had and my aunt was on the table dancing.

• 12:50Keke Palmer?

  I do remember that.

• 12:52Speaker 01

  My mom was there, at the very least.

• 12:54Keke Palmer?

  I can't believe that I didn't.

• 12:55Speaker 01

  But maybe we didn't talk about being a chef, but she's a chef, so she had a catering company that she operated from the house. And we had to help out. I'm talking about, I was five years old, my sister was 10. So it's always, and then my family comes from a long line of restaurateurs, you know, Jim Crow in the South, we couldn't.

• 13:12Keke Palmer?

  Now, that I did know.

• 13:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:13Keke Palmer?

  I did know about your aunt, aunt, was it your?

• 13:15Speaker 01

  My grandmother, my great-grandmother.

• 13:17Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, which is crazy.

• 13:19Speaker 01

  So, um, it's always been in my family, and my mom's side is Creole. So all they do is eat and drink and party, that's it.

• 13:26Keke Palmer?

  And I mean, culture is abundant. Like, when you think, when I think about Creole, I think about New Orleans, like, that's one of my favorite things about going to Louisiana. Even when I was in Shreveport or Bossier, I've been a couple places down there. And it's like, there's always such a great spirit of community that you can feel and you can see. And I think that's what makes your food so special.

• 13:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:45Keke Palmer?

  So when did you decide? When was the moment where you said?

• 13:49Speaker 01

  I'm doing this?

• 13:49Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, and I'm walking my mom and my family's footsteps.

• 13:52Speaker 01

  So I never really thought of it as a career. I was always in the kitchen. My first jobs were in restaurants in New York and everything. And then, um, I guess when I left college and moved down, the only job I could get in Louisiana was a cook. And I started as a dishwasher, and then was a line cook, and then worked at catering companies. And even then, it still wasn't really, really ingrained that, that this is what I was gonna do. I was, I also was pursuing rap at the time and acting. So like, I was like, you know, I was 18, I was trying everything out.

• 14:25Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 14:26Speaker 01

  Um, and then the Deepwater Horizon oil spill happened in the Gulf of Mexico. This was like an oil spill that like, millions of gallons were like pumping into the ocean because of, uh, the oil rig that like fell over. And, um, they were hiring cooks to go out there and cook for the people that were cleaning it up. And I was in Louisiana, and this guy, he was coming back like, I only saw him every three weeks. I was like, yo, where are you going? That I only see you every three weeks? How do you still have a job here? He was like, oh, I work here part-time. You know, they're paying like $2,000 a week for these cooks to go out on the ocean. And I was like, wait, how much are they paying? He was like, two grand. I was like, sign me up, I wanna go out there.

• 15:10Speaker 01

  So I went out in the middle of the, the middle of the Gulf of Mexico and cooked for these, um, like pirates, really like cleaning up the oil. And I really like found my groove. There was no wifi at the time. This is like back in the day, you know, no internet service in the middle of the ocean. Like, I just had to cook from within. And, you know, that.

• 15:31Keke Palmer?

  Yes!

• 15:32Speaker 01

  Yeah. So, you know, cooking for those people, breakfast, lunch, and dinner, you know, for months on end. I really was like, I love this. Like, I should really put everything into this. And then I moved back to New York and I started doing my thing.

• 15:49Keke Palmer?

  Now, when did you make the connection from not just, first of all, that story is incredible. Like, I want to see the movie of that story. Like, you with the pirates, you making cooking, and the wifi.

• 15:58Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 15:58Keke Palmer?

  Um, when did you realize that food could tell a story, right? Cause that's to me the next level from just making something is creating a world around it.

• 16:07Speaker 01

  That's a great question, cause I say that all the time.

• 16:16Keke Palmer?

  You know what just came back into my life like it never left?

• 16:21Keke Palmer?

  The Starbucks Pumpkin Spice Latte. And the second I saw it on my Starbucks app, I knew fall was just around the corner. The first sip took me right back to that fall feeling. And I remember how much I love this part of the year. I can't wait for the leaves to have their whole moment and the air to finally have some personality to it. When I actually wanna be outside instead of rushing past everything, that's what I'm excited for. It's funny how a walk I've done 100 times feels brand new just because fall is almost here. That's the thing about fall rituals, they're familiar in the best way. The iconic Starbucks Pumpkin Spice Latte falls right into that category for me.

• 17:03Keke Palmer?

  Same drink, same me. But somehow it feels like a whole moment every single time it comes back. So let this be your sign to slow down, soak the season in, and grab a Starbucks Pumpkin Spice Latte as fall begins. Celebrate fall with the return of the iconic Pumpkin Spice Latte. Order now on the Starbucks app.

• 17:28Keke Palmer?

  Tastes like fall. I think I just found our next family trip, and it's Asheville, North Carolina. Yes! September is when the leaves start turning, and I am building this entire trip around a porch. I need to find a home on Airbnb with a real porch because I can already picture mornings out there with coffee and evenings watching the mountains change color while my parents pretend they're not getting emotional about it. I'm putting the River Arts District on the list too, because watching glass blowers work is like the kind of thing that my sister will talk about for years. My dad's already asking if Asheville has good barbecue, which yes, obviously, that's so locked in.

• 18:08Keke Palmer?

  We're also doing the Biltmore one afternoon. It's this gorgeous Gilded Age mansion right outside of the city that makes you feel like you've been transported to Versailles. I wanna watch my parents walk those gardens like kids again. So what I'm saying is, find a place to stay on Airbnb in Asheville this fall. I'm building the whole trip around that porch so we can get that magical home away from home feel. And I'm not even sorry about it.

• 18:36Speaker 01

  I guess I realized it with my second restaurant. It was Kith and Ken, which means friends and family in Old English.

• 18:44Keke Palmer?

  Kith and Ken, and where was this one?

• 18:46Speaker 01

  It was in DC.

• 18:46Keke Palmer?

  DC, DC, your spot.

• 18:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, DC. So, um, I started cooking food that I grew up eating. Afro-Caribbean cuisine, influenced from my mom, my dad, who's Nigerian and Jamaican. And.

• 19:01Keke Palmer?

  Wow.

• 19:02Speaker 01

  Then I was just interested in like, the etymology of, of a dish. Like, okay.

• 19:09Keke Palmer?

  Now break that down for me.

• 19:09Speaker 01

  Why is there curried goat in Jamaica? Okay, we find out that in Trinidad and, you know, the early 1800s, a couple indentured servants from India came over on a boat and brought with them not only their work ethic, but their food ways. You know what I mean? Why is there rice in America? Um, you know, some of the, the captured Africans used to like hide rice in their cornrows.

• 19:36Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 19:36Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? And then they taught the settlers how to even grow rice with Carolina Gold Rice. So it's like, every dish is like a snapshot in history. And that was so fascinating to me that a dish could tell a story.

• 19:49Keke Palmer?

  Wow, do you have mentors or were there people as you started to change the way that you looked at food as really art? That you kind of were inspired by or, you know?

• 20:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, my mom, obviously.

• 20:01Keke Palmer?

  Yes.

• 20:02Speaker 01

  Huge mentor of mine. Um, I had some like teachers at the Culinary Institute of America that were mentors of mine, Bruce Mattel, you know, Chef Petanovich. The late, um, James Kent, who was the chef at Crown Shy. Um, you know, he was a mentor to me when I worked at I Love Madison Park. So I've had people along the way that have definitely like brought me along. Um, that were really important to me, for sure.

• 20:24Keke Palmer?

  That's awesome. What do you feel that there is about chefs that people maybe don't know or don't understand about your lifestyle, you know?

• 20:31Speaker 01

  I would say that we don't really cook at home like that. You know what I'm saying? Like how you said, you come to my house, it's not guaranteed that you're gonna get a meal from me. There's gonna be food though. I always had a spread of food.

• 20:41Keke Palmer?

  That's true.

• 20:42Speaker 01

  Curated, you know what I mean? But like, we don't cook for ourselves that often. Like, our, our act of service is very selfless. And I don't think people understand that.

• 20:54Keke Palmer?

  And so how does that look for your day-to-day? Like, is it like, you know, first of all, I feel like having a restaurant is very hard. You hear people talk about it, but you, you do it so much and you do it so well.

• 21:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:05Keke Palmer?

  Um, what, what does that mean for your life? Are you waking up in the morning and having to look through numbers? Are you able to just be creative? Like, how does it mean to be an entrepreneur and a chef?

• 21:14Speaker 01

  I think it's, there's, there's, you know, there's levels to it. There's different levels to it all. So, you know, some chefs are in the kitchen every single day. Some are also their bookkeepers, you know, other chefs have a team to get a lot of things done. And I have a team. You know, that's the only way I can have restaurants in multiple cities. That's the only way I can get some sleep at night. So I rely on my team a lot.

• 21:37Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, same.

• 21:38Speaker 01

  And, you know, being able to let go has, has let me grow at the same time.

• 21:43Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 21:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:44Keke Palmer?

  Is there a dish from your childhood that still makes you feel like?

• 21:49Speaker 01

  My mom's gumbo.

• 21:51Keke Palmer?

  Classic.

• 21:51Speaker 01

  Seafood gumbo.

• 21:52Keke Palmer?

  Gumbo is such a dish that people will drag you about.

• 21:55Speaker 01

  For sure.

• 21:56Keke Palmer?

  Why?

• 21:56Speaker 01

  It's different from house to house. They say the best gumbo is in somebody's house.

• 22:00Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, and so what do you think? What's the key? What's like a key thing with gumbo where you know? For instance, um, and maybe you could tell me if this is true or not. A friend of mine who's Jamaican says you could tell when somebody's like curry isn't good because they don't burn it in the pot first. Is that true? Have you heard of this before? What do they mean by that?

• 22:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. Well, you have to cook the curry out. It's not really burning it. It's like it's cooking it out in oil before you add everything else.

• 22:22Keke Palmer?

  So that's what my friend has told me. So I guess that's like a true rule of a of a real Jamaican situation.

• 22:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

• 22:28Keke Palmer?

  Now, what is it like with gumbo? Is there a thing?

• 22:30Speaker 01

  You know, the thing is, everybody makes theirs different. So like, I'm not gonna sit here and say what the key elements are. I know what it is for my family, you know?

• 22:40Keke Palmer?

  Are you allowed to share?

• 22:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, for sure. It's a it's a dark roux. It's the holy trinity, which is like bell pepper, onion, and celery. Obviously, throwing garlic and thyme in there as well. You know, we use a shrimp stock, homemade shrimp stock, which is like a shrimp broth. You make your roux, then you add your vegetables in there, the holy trinity. Then you add your stock, then you let that simmer. My family does chicken, sausage, and seafood. So it's like all those flavors. And then, you know, your house spice or your Creole spice as well. Like, all those things are non-negotiables for me, but some people add okra. I've seen some people add turkey necks.

• 23:18Keke Palmer?

  Come on, turkey necks.

• 23:19Speaker 01

  Filet powder, you know what I mean? Depending on what house to house I go to. But, um, yeah, I mean, the most important thing is that the gumbo isn't nasty. That's that's the most important thing, because you could be like, alright, this ain't my gumbo, but it's alright, you know what I mean? But if it's nasty, if the if the roux is burnt, or you're putting like strange vegetables in there, you know, that's when to me, there's only like chicken and sausage gumbo, and there's like the seafood gumbo, then there's like the mix of those two. Those are the only three gumbo's that I eat personally.

• 23:53Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 23:55Speaker 01

  From house to house is different, so I don't know.

• 23:58Keke Palmer?

  I love the freedom of that. That feels very encouraging to anybody out there, you know?

• 24:01Speaker 01

  I don't say, I wouldn't say try it out yourself.

• 24:05Speaker 01

  Uh, because I've I've never had the pleasure of having your cooking.

• 24:08Keke Palmer?

  I know, but you know, I'll be honest, Kwame, it's not, it's not great. It it it's it's cool, you know what I mean? I still, I, when you said, you know, you learned how to cook from the heart, I'm still cooking from the book.

• 24:18Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 24:19Keke Palmer?

  You know what I mean? I don't know how to let go.

• 24:21Speaker 01

  You gotta let go.

• 24:22Keke Palmer?

  How the hell do you do that and ensure that it's good?

• 24:24Speaker 01

  You know, like being with a loved one, you just be in the moment? You know what I mean? Like, that's what you gotta do. But you just have to be in the moment. You have to let it flow. You know, you gotta make mistakes, gotta learn from those mistakes.

• 24:35Keke Palmer?

  What are like a good thing that I should start with? Like, if I'm gonna like let it flow and let it go and be like, I'm about to start cooking. What would be a meal that you would say, go on, go?

• 24:42Speaker 01

  The first thing I would start with is scrambling eggs.

• 24:45Keke Palmer?

  Well, I'm good at that. Now, he really put me down.

• 24:47Speaker 01

  Are you though? Like, I gotta see the eggs. I gotta see, um, after that, after you get that together, um. What do you like to eat? How about we start with that?

• 25:01Keke Palmer?

  I love, well, it's so funny because you actually use a lot of influence of like Chinese food and stuff like that. I love, I love Asian food, I love soul food, I love the idea of fusion.

• 25:12Speaker 01

  Okay, give me a dish, though.

• 25:14Keke Palmer?

  Okay. Kimchi pancake.

• 25:16Speaker 01

  You just gave me a whole continent.

• 25:18Keke Palmer?

  I gave you a concept, the fusion of.

• 25:21Speaker 01

  I love all of Asia.

• 25:24Speaker 01

  The Indians and what?

• 25:26Keke Palmer?

  Please.

• 25:27Speaker 01

  Alright, alright, so.

• 25:28Keke Palmer?

  I love a kimchi pancake.

• 25:29Speaker 01

  Okay, start with that. Start with something that you like to eat. So by the by the time you finish making it, there's like a reward. You know what I'm saying? Like, that's what I would start with. Kimchi pancake isn't as.

• 25:39Keke Palmer?

  It's not that difficult?

• 25:40Speaker 01

  Well, I don't really know your your level of, um, expertise.

• 25:44Keke Palmer?

  It's not the cultural institute of America, okay?

• 25:48Speaker 01

  I think you could, you could, I think you can do a kimchi pancake. I think you can do a kimchi pancake. I would start with that.

• 25:54Keke Palmer?

  Well, when I text you about it, don't act funny. I'm just gonna ask you to like, just tell me what the key things and elements are.

• 26:00Speaker 01

  You can't tell me how to act. I will respond.

• 26:03Keke Palmer?

  Scorpio, Scorpio, y'all, Scorpio. Um, you were on Top Chef right after you graduated.

• 26:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 26:09Keke Palmer?

  What made you decide to go and put yourself out there and be a chef in front of the camera?

• 26:14Speaker 01

  Um, they reached out to me, honestly.

• 26:16Keke Palmer?

  Oh, that's sick.

• 26:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, they reached out to me. So I was doing pop-ups around the world, and I was getting a lot of like national, international press.

• 26:23Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 26:23Speaker 01

  So the casting directors reached out to me and they offered me to come on. I didn't have to try out or anything, so.

• 26:30Keke Palmer?

  That's so cool.

• 26:31Speaker 01

  And I was opening my first restaurant at the time, so I thought it would be.

• 26:34Keke Palmer?

  Was it Shab?

• 26:34Speaker 01

  The Shabbi Ju, yeah. So I thought it would be good publicity for the restaurant. What do I have to lose? I'm like twenty-two, twenty-three. Being on there is an honor. And then when I got on there, I was like, holy is a huge mistake. I should have not.

• 26:48Keke Palmer?

  What made you feel that way?

• 26:49Speaker 01

  I was just so nervous.

• 26:50Keke Palmer?

  It was a lot.

• 26:50Speaker 01

  It was real chefs around me, like older chefs. I was the youngest on the show. Um, you know, fortunately, I I did really well, but it was, it was very nerve-wracking.

• 27:02Keke Palmer?

  It's so funny to hear you say that because you're just so, that's not the Kwame. I don't know a nervous Kwame.

• 27:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm just being vulnerable, you know? It's me and you. It's the Scorpio in me.

• 27:10Keke Palmer?

  Oh, because you're so, you you, to me, I mean, you're so confident and you do things with so much ease, and it feels like you have such a immediate trajectory for your life, but I guess maybe you're just trusting your instincts.

• 27:23Speaker 01

  I'm trusting my instincts, and I'm trusting the universe that they put me in a place that you know, if I wasn't supposed to be there, I wouldn't be there. So I I might as well step up to the challenge at the end of the day and show some damn poise while I'm there, you know what I mean? Fake it till you make it at least. So I showed up confident, but I was very nervous throughout Top Chef.

• 27:41Keke Palmer?

  That's really inspiring. And then after, obviously, Shabbi Ju ended up closing a little bit. I don't have, was it a year or two? How long did it stay?

• 27:48Speaker 01

  That would be amazing if it was. It was like three months.

• 27:50Keke Palmer?

  Really? What did you, what did you learn? Because obviously, it wasn't, it wasn't the food. It's, I mean, again, being a restaurateur is really difficult.

• 27:57Speaker 01

  It was so many factors. I mean, I learned to I'm still learning, honestly, but making sure that you put a good team around you. You know, because starting a business is like starting a marriage. You have to be willing to like push through the tough points, communicate very, very well, um provide something that the other person isn't providing, you know, be this like partnership. So it was, that's what I learned from it. Um, you know, but six months later, I opened up Kitten and Ken, and we were like, you know, James Beard Award this and all that, so.

• 28:30Keke Palmer?

  Exactly.

• 28:30Speaker 01

  So I knew it wasn't the food. I knew it was like something that I needed to learn, even for myself. It's not, I'm not just putting the blame on others, like learning how to lead and, you know, be be extremely responsible and show up in different ways other than just a chef.

• 28:45Keke Palmer?

  Yeah. How would you say, or what would you say are those main things in terms of producing the proper team? Like, when you're thinking about opening a restaurant, is your first thought, like what kind of investor am I looking for? A partner, you know, things like that?

• 28:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, for sure. That's like number one. Like, what is the partnership gonna look like? And are these people in it for the the long haul? And are they honest people? But you also never know until you, until things are bad, when you really get to see the true sides of people.

• 29:13Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 29:13Speaker 01

  So it still is, um, some sort of trust you have to relinquish in the universe and in that person, and then you have to deal with it when hits the fan or things are really good. Like, and and and it's tough. But you know, I I always say to myself, like, I'll never stop being the kid that runs up to someone in the playground and asks, do you wanna play? Because you can't let that affect you. You know, like, that's something that other people are doing, and it's unfortunate when it doesn't go right. As long as you're doing all the right things, you know? Um, but it can't jade you to humanity, if that makes any sense.

• 29:49Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you've spoken about how people, speaking to the young piece of this all, that people felt like you didn't pay your dues when you came in. You kind of came in guns blazing and things just popped off. How does that feel now? How did you even adjust to that in that moment? Because you could say that this person hasn't paid their dues, but then you look at your lineage, and it's like, there have been so many dues paid for you in this path as well.

• 30:12Speaker 01

  For sure, for sure. I mean, I try not to let others' opinions affect my own trajectory because that has nothing to do with me. You know, you were in the public eye. You know, people are gonna have their opinions. So it's like, you gotta, you you internalize it for a second and move on, take what you want from it and move on. But I know what my worth is, and I know that I'm gonna work or outwork a lot of people at the end of the day. So I'm gonna figure this out, one way or the other.

• 30:41Keke Palmer?

  I've never seen you not working. I feel like me and you, and and again, I feel that we're so similar even though we do different jobs, the creativity, I feel like comes from the same place, because we'll be one area, and you'll be like, that's another idea. I'm about to call so-and-so, so-and-so. Like, I mean,

• 30:59Keke Palmer?

  where does that come from for you? Because me, I'm just inspired by what I'm around, and the next thing you know, I got a new damn show, a new job out of a hobby.

• 31:05Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, it's the same thing. It's like our minds never stop, even though we do. You know what I mean? I'm sure you go to sleep the same time I do, and you wake up the same time I do. It's just because our brains are just going, no matter what.

• 31:17Keke Palmer?

  That is so crazy.

• 31:18Speaker 01

  I'm like, is there a drug to take to stop this?

• 31:22Keke Palmer?

  Adderall, no.

• 31:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, but that makes it go more. I'm like, there's nothing for us.

• 31:27Keke Palmer?

  It's so true.

• 31:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm like, but it's our superpower at the at the end of the day. It's just a double-edged sword, you know what I mean? So we can't control it at times. That would be crazy, though, if we could control it.

• 31:37Keke Palmer?

  I also feel like that's why we are, it's so funny because it's a double-edged sword, because I feel like that's also why we are the way we are, because when I do my craft, I'm meditating inside of it, which I'm sure that's how it is for you. When you're cooking, it's like that's what does it. It's like I'm I'm also being driven to it because it also lets me disappear in a way. I don't know how to explain it.

• 31:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, for sure, for sure, because we're immersed in our work, so we're disappearing. We're disappearing from our thoughts.

• 32:03Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 32:03Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? It's that Zen moment, that Buddhist. It's that sun, moon and whatever. What the is it called? The moon and rising. Yeah, it's all that.

• 32:14Keke Palmer?

  And you don't know what time you're born.

• 32:16Speaker 01

  No, man. My mom told me to stay away from girls that ask me that.

• 32:20Keke Palmer?

  She's right. Okay, before we get to the cooking, I do want to just do another call out to Tatiana's because again, you've

• 32:26Speaker 01

  Why are black people always at a S?

• 32:28Keke Palmer?

  I know. Why do we do that? I just said it to my mom the other day. She does that. I get that from her. Tatiana is Tatiana. Tatiana, not Tatianas.

• 32:36Speaker 01

  So Tatianas.

• 32:37Keke Palmer?

  Like, why? Like, so Tatianas. Anyway.

• 32:41Speaker 01

  It does sound, it does sound nice, though. It rolls off the tongue.

• 32:43Keke Palmer?

  It do.

• 32:45Speaker 01

  Come on now.

• 32:45Keke Palmer?

  Tatiana is so, for you, what does it mark? The success of this restaurant. You've had success across the board. Talk about Kith and Ken. I mean, it's continuous. But Tatiana, I feel like is, is, is another vibe. What do you attribute to that?

• 33:02Speaker 01

  It's just authentic. At the end of the day, like you said, you walk in there, it feels like you're at one of my parties at the crib. Music's loud, there's food, there's drinks, you'll see some people you know.

• 33:12Keke Palmer?

  Somebody with a durag right next to somebody with a tuxedo.

• 33:14Speaker 01

  Exactly, exactly.

• 33:15Keke Palmer?

  They both the same, tuxedo with the durag.

• 33:20Speaker 01

  Patent of the durag. Um, but yeah, you know, for me, it's like, it's so important because I'm from New York, you know, like, I used to sell candy on the subway and sit on the steps of Lincoln Center. Like dreaming, like, man, I gotta figure this out one day. And like, to have, it's not lost on me. There's so many memories for me in New York, as a kid growing up in the Bronx to now, you know, having a restaurant on the Upper West Side. So, and also being authentic as

• 33:46Keke Palmer?

  I mean, the food is so good. We have Mamdouche shrimp, short rib pastrami sueya. I mean, I mean, cosmic brownie, powdered sugar, donut, ice cream, Sorrel.

• 33:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 33:59Keke Palmer?

  I don't know how you think of this stuff, but it's like the fusion of this fine dining experience that also represents and holds our culture in a way that has so much pride. It's really, it's really just beautiful. That's the best way you can explain it.

• 34:14Speaker 01

  It's fun. It's fun. So I'm, I mean, I'm extremely honored and so grateful I'm able to do this.

• 34:19Keke Palmer?

  Well, I'm excited to get into this dish from your All Hours cookbook that's getting ready to come out. This is a, this is called the, um, um, uh, uh, passion fruit, matozi?

• 34:29Speaker 01

  Maratosi.

• 34:30Keke Palmer?

  Maratosi, yeah, that's that culinary institute stuff. Cause I'm like, I've never had a maratosi.

• 34:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. So it's a snack in Rome. It's like, it's on this, it's, it's like a baked good on the side of the street in Rome. And it's like brioche filled with like whipped cream and powdered sugar. I added a little something, something to it, but this is my new cookbook. It's called All Hours. And it's based off of food that I actually eat. And it's like

• 34:53Keke Palmer?

  At any hour.

• 34:54Speaker 01

  At any hour. I mean, there's like excerpts from like, I just had a party in L.A. and I whipped up something. You know what I mean? The shrimp is actually in that book.

• 35:02Keke Palmer?

  I remember you made that for me. I loved it. It was great. It was great. And this is your second book because you had your memoir as well, Notes From A Young Black Chef.

• 35:10Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm. This is my third book.

• 35:11Keke Palmer?

  What's the one in between?

• 35:12Speaker 01

  Um, Recipes From A Young Black Chef.

• 35:14Keke Palmer?

  Oh, yeah. So this is the third book. Congratulations, man.

• 35:17Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 35:18Keke Palmer?

  This is dope. Well, let's get into the maratos.

• 35:20Speaker 01

  Let's do it.

• 35:27Keke Palmer?

  Discover Pandora Talisman, a new collection designed to help you express every side of who you are. Because the most powerful statement you can make is being yourself. I'm a Virgo, capital V, which means I notice everything. I remember everything. And I have opinions about everything, but I keep most of them in a very organized mental filing cabinet. That's the sign. Analytical on the inside, polished on the outside, and deeply particular about what we put on our bodies. So when I tell you I found my zodiac symbol in the Pandora Talisman collection, and immediately thought, finally, somebody captured what it feels like to be this. I mean that. It's not just a cute charm, it's the

• 36:09Keke Palmer?

  whole ethos. Pandora Talisman understood the assignment because the whole collection is built on that idea. Personalized pieces, meaningful symbols, designs that reflect what you stand for and how you choose to show up. I've been styling mine as a conversation starter. Someone asks about the piece and suddenly we're talking about identity, about what it means to carry something on our body that represents who you actually are. That's not just accessories, that's communication. I've been layering mine with gold pieces on days I feel bold, or wearing it solo on a thin chain when I want something quiet that still says something loud. Pandora Talisman, a new language of self-expression, because every version of you deserves to be seen.

• 36:55Keke Palmer?

  Shop new styles in store or online at pandora.net. This episode is supported by FX's The Drop, a snowfall saga. Wanda and Leon are back, but this time, they're chasing a different kind of legacy. As West Coast rap begins to take over 90's Los Angeles, Wanda is betting on a new generation of artists ready to make a name for themselves in hip hop. But in a city where every opportunity comes with a price, they'll have to decide what they're willing to risk to leave their mark. FX's The Drop, now streaming on Hulu. I cannot tell you how much makeup I have bought that looked right in the store and then betrayed me in

• 37:37Keke Palmer?

  natural light. The audacity. I'd get home, blend it out, step outside, and suddenly, I'm looking casket ready. Two shades off and not a single person said anything. Sephora fixed that for me. Okay, they have the best brands all in one place with a range of shades, coverage levels, and finishes, so you're not just guessing and hoping for the best. Right now, I'm wearing my favorite Hourglass Vanish Airbrush Full Coverage Longwear Concealer for natural finish that's long lasting. Okay, it is my perfect match. Can't you tell? Get a close up look. Plus, their beauty advisors and shade matching tools take the guesswork

• 38:17Keke Palmer?

  out entirely, in store or online. So no more settling, no more close enough. Visit Sephora to find your match.

• 38:30Keke Palmer?

  So Kwame, we're gonna be doing a recipe from your cookbook, All Hours, which comes out September 22nd.

• 38:35Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 38:35Keke Palmer?

  Congratulations again on that.

• 38:36Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 38:37Keke Palmer?

  Um, and we've had to make some concessions because obviously we're in this studio.

• 38:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, but at the end of the day, it's gonna be very delicious.

• 38:44Keke Palmer?

  I'm so excited. Well, let's get into it.

• 38:46Speaker 01

  So like I said, this is a, a Roman snack, essentially, like a dessert. And it's normally like brioche that's stuffed with whipped cream. And then they put powdered sugar on top of it. I've added a little passion fruit curd. So a curd is like, uh, kinda like a pudding, kinda like the inside of a creme brulee.

• 39:05Keke Palmer?

  Ooh, that's me. I'm the creme brulee.

• 39:08Speaker 01

  She's the creme brulee. That's what I call her. Uh, that's my nickname for her, Kiki Creme Brulee.

• 39:13Keke Palmer?

  Kiki Creme Brulee. Is this the custard?

• 39:15Speaker 01

  It's the custard. And then I have some passion fruit, fresh passion fruit.

• 39:18Keke Palmer?

  Wow. And then this is the?

• 39:21Speaker 01

  It's like the whipped cream, vanilla whipped cream. So toasted vanilla whipped cream. I'm gonna just put that on top.

• 39:27Keke Palmer?

  Now, the whole gag with this book is these are recipes that you would be eating at All Hours.

• 39:32Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 39:33Keke Palmer?

  So I mean, like, tell me your favorite in the book.

• 39:36Speaker 01

  This is one of them. This is one of the favorites, for sure. Um, another one is like the peel and eat shrimp that I made at the crib.

• 39:44Keke Palmer?

  Yep.

• 39:44Speaker 01

  At one time. Um, another one is just like

• 39:49Keke Palmer?

  Favorite two A and one?

• 39:50Speaker 01

  The sliders.

• 39:51Keke Palmer?

  Sliders.

• 39:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, White Castle sliders.

• 39:53Keke Palmer?

  Oh, my gosh. You know, I'm from Chicago, the Midwest. White Castle be going up.

• 39:57Speaker 01

  So look, so then we, we scrape some of the whipped cream off. We top it with a little bit of

• 40:04Keke Palmer?

  Boy, it looks so good.

• 40:05Speaker 01

  Powdered sugar. I'm gonna add a little fresh squeeze of passion fruit to that.

• 40:13Speaker 01

  And then just cause you're here, I brought some flowers. I brought some flowers.

• 40:16Keke Palmer?

  You can't trust a chef. I'm starting to see what this, what Kwame is about. This is, you know, this is dangerous.

• 40:22Speaker 01

  You know, you called it.

• 40:24Keke Palmer?

  Scorpio, let me just say, I don't know if I'm

• 40:27Speaker 01

  I don't know. I don't know my moon.

• 40:29Keke Palmer?

  Seems like he knows.

• 40:29Speaker 01

  And my sun and my rising.

• 40:31Keke Palmer?

  I can't believe you don't. I'm really gonna ask your mom that.

• 40:33Speaker 01

  Why the I know that?

• 40:35Keke Palmer?

  Because

• 40:35Speaker 01

  Is that like common knowledge?

• 40:37Keke Palmer?

  It is.

• 40:38Speaker 01

  Okay. All right. I've been doing all right without that.

• 40:43Keke Palmer?

  Typical guy.

• 40:43Speaker 01

  I'm like, you know what? You figure it out, girl.

• 40:45Keke Palmer?

  What is the hardest thing that you haven't learned how to cook?

• 40:49Speaker 01

  The hardest thing I haven't learned how to cook? I don't know. It all came pretty easy to me.

• 40:54Keke Palmer?

  Wait, so I should probably be, let me try this. Let me try to start doing this.

• 40:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. Why don't you try to make one?

• 40:58Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, let me try to make one. So, okay, you cut a little bit.

• 41:01Speaker 01

  Hold on, hold on, like, come.

• 41:03Keke Palmer?

  Why do I feel like I'm in one of those movies where it's like, you know, she goes to the restaurant and

• 41:08Speaker 01

  She meets the chef.

• 41:10Keke Palmer?

  And, but she's got a bad attitude. So she's like, I know how to do it. You know, that's the whole thing. Like, they're not getting along. He's the head chef. She already was there at the restaurant, but he came in and took her spot. I know what a custard does.

• 41:22Speaker 01

  Put a, put a little bit of custard in.

• 41:24Keke Palmer?

  This much or a little more?

• 41:25Speaker 01

  That's good.

• 41:25Keke Palmer?

  Okay, good.

• 41:26Speaker 01

  And then low drizzle of the passion fruit curd. Mm-hmm. Ooh, that looks good.

• 41:32Keke Palmer?

  What's the favorite thing of your families that you make?

• 41:36Speaker 01

  Probably my oxtails. They really like my oxtails.

• 41:39Keke Palmer?

  Oxtails? Why did you say that?

• 41:42Speaker 01

  Why is that so funny?

• 41:43Keke Palmer?

  Because the way that you say, "They really like my oxtails."

• 41:45Speaker 01

  They like my oxtails.

• 41:46Keke Palmer?

  Why did you make it sound so like that? You're crazy. Please, Kwame. You're crazy.

• 41:52Speaker 01

  They like my oxtails.

• 41:53Keke Palmer?

  The truth is Kwame made me a drink before we came out here.

• 41:56Speaker 01

  Oh, that's why you're so giggly.

• 41:58Keke Palmer?

  That's you. You did that. Now, you did something to scrape something off. How did you do that?

• 42:02Speaker 01

  Just put a little more in there?

• 42:02Keke Palmer?

  It's not enough, okay?

• 42:03Speaker 01

  Just so you can scrape it. There we go.

• 42:06Keke Palmer?

  And that's a part of the vibe?

• 42:06Speaker 01

  Look at that. Beautiful, beautiful, perfect.

• 42:10Keke Palmer?

  Now, you know what's interesting to me? Because obviously Louisiana Creole, I'm sure you've done some French cooking in France.

• 42:16Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 42:17Keke Palmer?

  What do you think when you think about the the food in New Orleans or in Louisiana? And how it's in relation to the food in France? Like, and the differences?

• 42:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, there's definitely that lineage, um, you know, of French influence in Louisiana. So you see it, but you also see Native American influence. You see African, the filet powder, you know what I mean?

• 42:39Keke Palmer?

  That's very Native American.

• 42:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, you see the Germanic sausages, like, um, and doe. You see the shrimp from the fishermen's from the Canary Islands. So like, what I think of like food from New Orleans, it's like it's the truest essence of American cuisine because it's of all the different people that made it what it is. And that's what America is to me.

• 42:59Keke Palmer?

  Now,

• 43:00Speaker 01

  There you go.

• 43:00Keke Palmer?

  I love that. That's beautiful, and I agree completely. Now, my question to you is, if you were to do a show, because I feel like we need a cooking show with someone like you. You are literally the new age chef. I mean, to me, there's just, it's no one better. So if we were to do a show, if we're pitching a show right now,

• 43:16Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 43:16Keke Palmer?

  what does it look like for Kwame to have a show?

• 43:19Speaker 01

  It's gotta be true. I gotta be able to be myself. Um, it can't be cookie cutter, like, "Welcome to Kwame's Cooking Show. Today, we have Keke Palmer." It can't be any of that.

• 43:31Speaker 01

  It can't be a point and shoot show. It's gotta be something that's like, maybe you're, all the chefs are living in my crib, and it's called Kwame's crib. And I'm like, yo, Kiki's over. One day, I made her the shrimp, recreate this recipe. You have 15 minutes. Go.

• 43:46Keke Palmer?

  We just sold the show.

• 43:47Speaker 01

  You know what I'm saying? And it's, or I wake them up in the middle of the night. I'm like, yo, you know, so and so is over right now. Make them a dish, but at the same time, I'm gonna order that dish from a restaurant. You better make it before that dish gets here, and it's gotta be better than it.

• 44:00Keke Palmer?

  Yeah!

• 44:01Speaker 01

  You know what I'm saying? Like,

• 44:02Keke Palmer?

  I love this show.

• 44:03Speaker 01

  And then also I do cultural things, you know, teaching about influences from American cuisine, kind of taking them through what it takes to be the greatest chef in America, which is you have to be personable. You gotta do stuff on TV. You gotta know how to write. You gotta know how to create recipes. You know how to run a restaurant. You gotta know how to do events. So that's the show that I would wanna do, something that's real and really represents the fabric of what it is to be a great chef. Cheers to that.

• 44:28Keke Palmer?

  Cheers to that. I also must say, because you're talking about events, 2025 Met Gala. I remember I sent you an immediate message when I heard. I said, Kwame, this is getting out of control.

• 44:37Speaker 01

  And we were sitting at the table next to each other.

• 44:38Keke Palmer?

  Yes, we had some, we were dancing all night.

• 44:41Speaker 01

  Dancing, the Stevie Wonder and Usher. It was incredible.

• 44:44Keke Palmer?

  It was so good.

• 44:45Speaker 01

  It was so fun to be there.

• 44:46Keke Palmer?

  And I was just so proud of you because honestly, no shade, no tea, the best food the Met Gala has ever seen.

• 44:52Speaker 01

  We're not gonna do that.

• 44:53Keke Palmer?

  Everybody said that, though. I cannot tell a lie.

• 44:56Speaker 01

  Yeah. Cheers.

• 44:57Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 45:03Speaker 01

  This is a little maritosy.

• 45:06Keke Palmer?

  That's how it made me feel.

• 45:07Speaker 01

  Yeah. It's good. It's acidic. It's light. It's beautiful. You taste the notes of vanilla. The brioche is just like so soft. It's like the greatest snack, and it's so easy to make.

• 45:20Keke Palmer?

  This is delicious.

• 45:21Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 45:22Keke Palmer?

  That cream, no wonder you said more cream, more cream.

• 45:24Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm, yeah. I'm gonna put more cream. I'm gonna do a little drizzle of that for acidity.

• 45:30Keke Palmer?

  And how long does this typically, because you came out with, then how long does this? In the book, is this stuff like, is there some quick stuff?

• 45:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's for everybody, all levels of experience, really. Um, this is, you just gotta make this curd and make some whipped cream. You can buy these at Whole Foods, honestly. And then you just make your, make your dish.

• 45:49Keke Palmer?

  Okay, two more things I need to ask you now.

• 45:50Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 45:51Keke Palmer?

  I'm gonna let you go.

• 45:53Keke Palmer?

  What are the things that are underused in the kitchen as far as seasonings? That will make any dish elevated?

• 45:59Speaker 01

  Salt.

• 46:01Keke Palmer?

  That's it, huh?

• 46:01Speaker 01

  People underuse salt all the time. They underuse it or they overuse it?

• 46:06Keke Palmer?

  My mom overuses it. Let me just tell you that.

• 46:08Speaker 01

  I love your mom, so I'm not gonna comment on that, but...

• 46:10Keke Palmer?

  One time I had some food from her and I said,

• 46:13Speaker 01

  You got it out?

• 46:14Keke Palmer?

  I went out my dick right out immediately.

• 46:15Speaker 01

  This is good.

• 46:17Keke Palmer?

  But my dad,

• 46:20Keke Palmer?

  perfect.

• 46:20Speaker 01

  Savant.

• 46:21Keke Palmer?

  Savant.

• 46:22Speaker 01

  I love it. I think salt. Salt is underutilized, and then acid. You know how I use this and I bumped it up a little bit?

• 46:27Keke Palmer?

  Yes.

• 46:27Speaker 01

  Just to like awaken your palate. I think that's like, that's important.

• 46:31Keke Palmer?

  It made the sweet that much more easier to take on.

• 46:33Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 46:34Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 46:34Speaker 01

  Exactly, yeah.

• 46:35Keke Palmer?

  What's the one thing that people use too much of? That you're like, that's actually not needed, or they're doing too much?

• 46:41Speaker 01

  Too much of?

• 46:45Speaker 01

  I don't know. Something that people use too much of?

• 46:48Keke Palmer?

  Pepper.

• 46:50Speaker 01

  It's not pepper. I don't, I don't think home cooks use enough of anything. That's what I'm saying. So like, I, I wouldn't say someone's like, they put too much paprika in, like, that doesn't even taste like anything, so. I, I think, I don't know, I don't think they use too much of anything.

• 47:06Keke Palmer?

  Yeah. What's your trilogy of seasoning?

• 47:09Speaker 01

  The Holy Trinity.

• 47:10Keke Palmer?

  The Holy Trinity.

• 47:10Speaker 01

  Which is bell pepper, celery, and onion. That's my Holy Trinity. But I use, I use ginger, garlic, and thyme a lot.

• 47:20Keke Palmer?

  Ginger, garlic, and thyme a lot?

• 47:22Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 47:23Keke Palmer?

  Okay, gonna have to add that to my arsenal of things I

• 47:26Speaker 01

  Don't do either? Like, what do you, arsenal of, arsenal means you have

• 47:31Keke Palmer?

  Please, you could've let me there.

• 47:32Speaker 01

  A basis of something.

• 47:33Keke Palmer?

  You could've let me run and just have it. This is Kwame, everybody. Chef Kwame. Make sure, if you get a chance, you're gonna have to plan in advance, like maybe a year in order to get to Tatiana.

• 47:43Speaker 01

  I'm opening a restaurant in Vegas like next month.

• 47:46Keke Palmer?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 47:46Speaker 01

  You gotta come to the opening.

• 47:47Keke Palmer?

  Can you please tell me?

• 47:48Speaker 01

  It's called Maroon.

• 47:48Keke Palmer?

  Maroon?

• 47:49Speaker 01

  So it's about, um, the Maroon people of Jamaica that escaped slavery. And in their hiding in the Blue Mountains, they used to dig pits, catch a wild animal, rub it with herbs and spices, put it in the pit, put the fire and close it, because the fire will reveal their location with the smoke. And that's how jerk cuisine was born. So it's, it's a nod to them and the tenacity. There's a lot, it's a Caribbean steakhouse in Las Vegas at the Sahara.

• 48:16Keke Palmer?

  I'm ready for the historian show, too. It's giving Neil deGrasse type.

• 48:20Speaker 01

  We'll get there when I'm like 50, 60, you know what I mean? Right now, I wanna do some swaggy

• 48:24Keke Palmer?

  You're the best. I love you so much.

• 48:26Speaker 01

  I love you, too.

• 48:27Keke Palmer?

  And I'm coming to the restaurant tonight.

• 48:29Speaker 01

  Okay, I'll see you there.

• 48:30Keke Palmer?

  All right.

• 48:31Speaker 01

  Peace.

• 48:35Keke Palmer?

  Heritage shows up in so many ways in what we cook, what we crave, and the traditions that get passed down without us even realizing it. Food carries memory, identity, and history. But it also creates connection, allowing people from completely different backgrounds to find common ground. Chef Kwame is proof food can be a bridge between people, perspectives, and experiences. And that when we make space for more of us at the table, everyone benefits. Be sure to check out his new cookbook, All Hours, and make our pageant fruit maritosies. Those were good, y'all. I'm about to go grab another. Baby, this is Keke Palmer.