#ICYMI - MLB Greatness and Trout 5 Design, with Mike Trout

Hosts Gary O’Reilly and Chuck Nice find out more about the new Trout 5 baseball cleats, data-driven baseball, and how to be baseball’s best player from MLB superstar Mike Trout and Mike Ekstrom, former MLB player and Nike Product Line Manager for Cleated Footwear. Don’t miss an episode of Playing with Science. Please subscribe to our channels on: Apple Podcasts: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/playing-with-science/id1198280360 TuneIn: tunein.com/playingwithscience GooglePlay Music: https://play.google.com/music/listen?u=0#/ps/Iimke5bwpoh2nb25swchmw6kzjq SoundCloud: https://soundcloud.com/startalk_playing-with-science Stitcher: http://www.stitcher.com/podcast/startalk/playing-with-science NOTE: StarTalk All-Access subscribers can watch or listen to this entire episode commercial-free here: https://www.startalkradio.net/all-access/mlb-greatness-and-trout-5-design-with-mike-trout/ Photo Credit: D. Benjamin Miller [Public domain or CC0], from Wikimedia Commons.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:09Gary O'Reilly?

  I'm Gary O'Reilly.

• 0:10Chuck Nice?

  And I'm Chuck Nice.

• 0:11Gary O'Reilly?

  And this is Playing with Science. Today, we are going to talk to a man who doesn't just hit homers, he smashes them. And if you turn your back, he's stealing base. And the only clubhouse he's not feared in is his own.

• 0:24Chuck Nice?

  That's right. That is none other than already walking, talking, and living legend, and seemingly the most underrated player in modern history. For some strange reason, we're talking about a man who will rewrite and tear down records at any chance that he's given, none other than baseball's Mike Trout.

• 0:45Gary O'Reilly?

  None other. And that is only part of why we've got him on the show, because he's that good. The other reason, he has a new cleat coming out, the Nike Trout 5. And with the big fuss about cleats right now in Major League Baseball, I suppose really we need to talk to the man who designed the shoe.

• 1:03Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, that's right. And that is former MLB player Mike Extrum. He is the product line manager for cleat footwear at, you guessed it, Nike or Nike. And the man behind the Nike Trout or Nike Trout 2, 3, 4, and 5.

• 1:20Gary O'Reilly?

  So, Mike Extrum, welcome to the show, sir. Hey, man, how are you?

• 1:24Speaker 02

  I'm doing well, thanks for having me, guys.

• 1:25Gary O'Reilly?

  Good. Mike Trout is not just playing out of his skin, he's just destroying records.

• 1:31Chuck Nice?

  He's a phenom.

• 1:32Gary O'Reilly?

  And you read, you read, you read about him, and then you realise that in everything you read, his name comes up in the same sentence as Ty Cobb, Ted Williams, Babe Ruth. And yet, here he is, as Chuck says, he's not quite under the radar, but he's, you know, for all of that, he should be front page every day.

• 1:53Chuck Nice?

  Like, you know what's funny? It's like, when you look at some guys that you, when you look at their seasons, like a Ken Griffey Jr., right? Wasn't playing in a big, major market, right? But you heard about him all the time, okay? A guy like Barry Bonds, all right? Always the centre of the media. What is it about Mike Trout that we're not hearing about this guy all the time? Is there a reason for that?

• 2:20Speaker 02

  I mean, I don't know. I think I think the stuff that Mike can do on the baseball field. I mean, the the fantastic stuff that he does every night, it just becomes routine. Makes the game look so easy, whether it's hitting homers, stealing bases, making great plays. That I don't know if it's a compliment to make the game look boring, but the stuff that he does. It just he does the supernatural stuff and he makes it look routine.

• 2:45Chuck Nice?

  That's what it is. And and I'm going to tell you something. So it reminds me of Jordan. Okay, so Michael Jordan did so much like, as you say, supernatural stuff. That when he did something, it was just a regular Jordan highlight like it wasn't like.

• 3:03Gary O'Reilly?

  That's what I do.

• 3:03Chuck Nice?

  People weren't like, oh, my God. They were just like, yeah, well, that's Jordan. And I think you just hit upon it. He makes it look easy.

• 3:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, I think so. And Mike, I mean, as I said, he can he can basically do it all on the field. I mean, but when we're designing cleats, when we're working the team here to to kind of enhance his athleticism. It's a it's a unique challenge in that he can. He's one of the fastest guys in the league.

• 3:27Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 3:27Speaker 02

  Some of the most power. He does it day in, day out, plays a great center field, great defense. So, yeah, he poses a challenge for us, creating cleats for him. But it's a great guy for us to work with. And the stuff he's doing this year. I mean, it's it's like the guy never stops since his debut season six years ago.

• 3:46Chuck Nice?

  That's right.

• 3:46Speaker 02

  I mean, he's hit the ground, just keeps getting better and better and better every year.

• 3:49Gary O'Reilly?

  And that's you're you're a former major league baseball player.

• 3:52Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 3:53Gary O'Reilly?

  And and you're talking about him in those glowing terms. So we can take that as read that he really is as good as you say. And you said his skill set, what do they call them? Five tool, four tool players? I mean, he may have he may have more.

• 4:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, all baseball players are judged in scouting circles in five tools. So that's hitting power, hitting for average, game speed, defense and arm strength. So one of the best compliments in baseball is to be labeled a five tool player. There's really not very many of them in the big leagues. And Mike is definitely a five tool player who can do it all on the field.

• 4:31Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 4:32Speaker 02

  He's a freak athlete.

• 4:33Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, it's funny when you say on the field because one of the parts of his game that I really love watching is his defense. Like I I I've said that here's a guy who loves hitting home runs, but he loves stealing home runs as well because he'll go all the way back to the wall and jump up and like he'll go get a ball over the wall and and and the batter is just like, well, I can't be mad at you because I know you hit the same way I do.

• 4:57Gary O'Reilly?

  See, the interesting thing, going back to what you just said, a player like Mike Trout presents challenges to your team who design, develop, bring new footwear, utilize new technologies. What are the main questions he asked of you and your team in developing new footwear?

• 5:20Speaker 02

  I think for Mike, I mean, Mike's a great guy to work with. And as now we're on to the Trout Five, he really knows what he's looking for in his cleats, which makes our job just a bit easier. But for him, it's it's almost protecting Mike from himself. Like the the stuff he can do, he's his frame is that of an NFL linebacker. I mean, he's six, 235 pounds, playing baseball, where there's not many guys with that frame running as fast as he he can run. And so it's give him the containment he needs when he's taking left turns every 90 feet at 20 miles an hour. The comfort, because baseball is such a long season, but also the explosiveness for, I mean, he's a powerful swing or making

• 6:03Speaker 02

  a first step on a ball. So it's that blend of power and speed, the athleticism at his size. When Mike needs cleats, he wants cleats that work for him. And that's what we need to deliver.

• 6:15Chuck Nice?

  So let me ask you this. When you look around the league, okay, it's so the of course, I would think because I'm here in New York, the obvious comparison would be Aaron Judge, because of his prowess at the plate and the fact that he's such a big guy. You know, he's also a large guy. He's also very fast as well. So who who is most like Trout in their style of play and and their approach to the game? Who would you say?

• 6:46Speaker 02

  Um, I mean, that's a, that's a tough one. Honestly, I, I may be a bit biased, but I think you take some of the best elements of other guys in the league, um, whether it's, I think Trey Turner for speed, Mike Trout, uh, steals a ton of bags as well. Aaron Judge or Giancarlo Stanton with the power, like Mike can hit a ball basically just as far.

• 7:07Gary O'Reilly?

  Mm-hmm.

• 7:08Speaker 02

  And even with average, like, uh, Jose Altuve is gonna get 200 hits, like Trout will be close to him or above him in the, uh, average. So as we talk about it in our, in the, with the team here on campus, it's like taking the best elements of the best players in the league and Mike, I mean, stacks up near them or on par with them or even better than them. So we, we have to kind of work to provide footwear that enhances all the things he can do.

• 7:35Gary O'Reilly?

  Is, is this now to the point where you think maybe the footwear that you developed for Mike Trout can actually give him a little bit more advantage? Is that an objective in your design?

• 7:47Speaker 02

  Uh, I, I mean, I, I think that's always an, an objective. It's certainly tough to prove, but that's, that's the goal we're trying to do. The footwear that we're creating, so there's so much athleticism there, whatever we can do to enhance his power, his speed, and do it over the long baseball season, that's what we're trying to do.

• 8:05Chuck Nice?

  So we're gonna get into the sneaks, um, sneaks, listen to me.

• 8:08Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah.

• 8:09Chuck Nice?

  We're gonna get into the shows in just a second and we're about to take a break.

• 8:13Gary O'Reilly?

  You're gonna get into the shoes.

• 8:13Chuck Nice?

  We're gonna get into the shows. Did I say that?

• 8:15Gary O'Reilly?

  Yes.

• 8:15Chuck Nice?

  We're gonna get into the shoes in a second. Uh.

• 8:18Gary O'Reilly?

  You knew what you meant.

• 8:18Chuck Nice?

  I knew what I meant.

• 8:19Gary O'Reilly?

  You just couldn't say it.

• 8:20Chuck Nice?

  I don't even think I knew what I meant.

• 8:22Gary O'Reilly?

  In other words, we're gonna take a break.

• 8:24Chuck Nice?

  No, I wanna ask you a question.

• 8:25Gary O'Reilly?

  Before we do.

• 8:25Chuck Nice?

  Before we take a break, because I, I wanna, I wanna know, from a pitcher's standpoint, cause I know you pitched in the majors, okay? Um, when you go up against these power hitters, okay, um, what is it in a pitcher's psyche that you are trying to achieve on a mental level with these guys? Because you have your limits, you know what I mean? Like, your limits are human, all right? You might have some pitches that they're totally looking for. What are you doing psychologically to these guys to try to get an edge? I, I've always wondered, like, what happens, like, when you go up against, I'm talking like the big, big hitters?

• 9:09Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I think coming from a former pitcher, um, I always knew that the numbers of baseball dictate that I'm the pitcher's supposed to win. Like the the best hitter in baseball is gonna hit three hundred.

• 9:22Gary O'Reilly?

  Yep.

• 9:22Speaker 02

  Three thirty maybe, so they're gonna get out seven times out of ten. And so knowing that's in the back pocket, but then also knowing that they can hit a ball five hundred feet and embarrass you. I think it's just being confident with your approach, the pitcher's strengths versus the hitter's weaknesses. And once the ball's out of your hand, you kind of take your take your chances and I mean, ho- hopefully make a pitch. I think I think if I was better at pitching, I'd probably still be doing it. So maybe I'm not the best guy for advice, but uh it's just having confidence and trying to execute what you're uh the game plan.

• 9:57Gary O'Reilly?

  Ah, I think you're selling yourself short. I think you've got more more skills than you're letting on. Are you one of those pitchers that can remember every pitch they threw?

• 10:06Speaker 02

  Uh, I maybe not every pitch, but I can certainly remember uh.

• 10:11Gary O'Reilly?

  That's a, see that's, see, every pitcher I've spoken to, oh yeah, I'm just about recall every single pitch that I've thrown.

• 10:19Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 10:20Gary O'Reilly?

  And you're you're thinking, no, and then they go into it with you and you're like, well, they can. And it's it's it's it's a pitcher thing that they're able to give that.

• 10:28Chuck Nice?

  I wouldn't want that skill. I've made way too many mistakes in my life.

• 10:33Chuck Nice?

  I have way, I've made way too many mistakes in my life to have to want that kind of recall.

• 10:38Gary O'Reilly?

  Shall we take that break?

• 10:39Chuck Nice?

  Yeah.

• 10:39Gary O'Reilly?

  Okay, we'll take that break. These, for those of you behind all access can see, are super, super incredible, brand new cleats and sneakers. Mike Trout five, yeah. If you wanna know what the tech is inside of these bad boys, stick around. We'll be back very, very shortly with Mike Ekstrom, product line manager from Nike. Yes, that is, back shortly.

• 11:05Gary O'Reilly?

  Welcome back to Playing with Science. We're chatting with Mike Ekstrom, the product line manager for cleated footwear at Nike or Nike, depending on your preference, and the lead designer of the new Trout Five cleat coming to a sports store near you very, very soon.

• 11:20Chuck Nice?

  See, now, when it's Nike, then the Nike Trout Five sounds perfect because it's Mike Trout and Nike Trout, but you gotta call him Mikey for it to be the Nike Trout Five.

• 11:33Gary O'Reilly?

  He doesn't sound like a Mikey.

• 11:34Chuck Nice?

  He doesn't sound like a Mikey to me either.

• 11:35Gary O'Reilly?

  No.

• 11:36Chuck Nice?

  Like, yeah.

• 11:37Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah, but there we are.

• 11:37Chuck Nice?

  Mikey, he likes it. Yeah, I like to punch you in the face. That's no, he's too nice of a guy.

• 11:41Gary O'Reilly?

  All right, well, let's get into these, cause um. You said a Five-Two player will present you as a designer with a bag full of considerations in terms of what you do. Let's break this down because it's a very intricate upper that you have on this cleat. So, Mike Extron, please explain what we are looking at right now.

• 12:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, so on the Trout Five Elite and Trout Five turf, we were given kind of a unique opportunity to use generative design, to use athlete data in the sport to really influence the design of the cleat. And you really see that come to life both in the plate, in the opsole, and in the upper. And so, we could really generate a design that was truly engineered to the exact specifications of Mike Trout. And that's something we say here at Nike, where we're engineering products specifically for the athletes. This Trout Five, I mean, we have Mike in the lab here at the NSRL, the Nike Sports Research

• 12:45Speaker 02

  Lab, February of 2016. And he was engaged with pressure map data and sensors, in shoe pressure maps, while doing swings, making throws, running bases, and we could see how his foot really interacted.

• 13:01Gary O'Reilly?

  Wow.

• 13:02Speaker 02

  And then the computational designers here took that data and translated it into both the plate and the upper to give him more support where he needed it, more flexibility for better fit, to really tune the shoe 360 degrees to the exactly fit form and function that he needs to play the game of baseball. So it was really cool to engage with that data to influence the design specifically to his needs in the sport.

• 13:29Chuck Nice?

  So this really is truly a data-informed shoe. It's a shoe that is made from zeros and ones, for the most part.

• 13:40Speaker 02

  Uh, yeah, and I think I'm not a designer, I'm just the product manager, but the design teams that really that focus on that, they take that data and they do their thing and they spit it out into this design that is perfectly formed just for him. So being able to translate what's happening to his foot while he's taking a swing, making a throw, rounding bases, it's really, really cool how it came to life.

• 14:07Gary O'Reilly?

  You've got different textures and finishes on the upper and the sole seems to be an integral part of the upper. It's all as if it's one piece, although it isn't quite. Can you explain why we've got such different texturing? Because there's no, the upper, not like on a soccer shoe, would come into contact with the ball. So there must be some reason, unless it is obviously cosmetic, but I'm guessing there's a very good reason.

• 14:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, so we're calling that the Nike Power Map Upper and it's mapped off the power generated in Mike's foot. So you'll see up in the rear quarter, up kind of where the ankle would be, the cells are bigger, they're more robust. And this is if you think of Mike rounding bases or breaking on a ball, he's going to need more support in that area.

• 14:53Gary O'Reilly?

  Ah.

• 14:54Speaker 02

  You go up into the forefoot where it's, you need more, just like a more one-to-one fit for that run comfort, the cells are going to be a little bit shallower, less built to provide that better fit.

• 15:07Gary O'Reilly?

  And then as you come down towards the sole, you've got those larger configurations, but it kind of, the sole kind of looks as if it's reaching up into the upper of the shoe and it's sat and cradled in it. And yeah, it's quite a feat of engineering. How long did it take to actually bring this from a clear sheet of paper to what we're looking at right now?

• 15:31Speaker 02

  Well, I think in cleated footwear here at Nike, it takes from initial brief to when the shoe is in the box for sale. It takes about two and a half years.

• 15:40Gary O'Reilly?

  Wow.

• 15:41Speaker 02

  And just, I mean, tons of iterations, layering in the data generation on this one, make sure it actually works and functions, wear testing, getting with Mike, we probably sat with Mike Trout six or seven times on this cleat to get his thoughts because first and foremost, It's his signature model. It has to be exactly what he wants, both in look, but then also in function. So getting Mike involved to, to make sure we're designing exactly what he wants, and then making something that can be manufactured and will work on the field, it takes, takes over two years to get that done.

• 16:17Chuck Nice?

  And it feels like it. So let me just tell our listeners and, and those of you who are watching. So this is the turf shoe that I'm holding. And Nike sent these to us, I suppose, just so that we could have them here while we're doing the show. And we're grateful for that. And we are grateful. And I'm going to be very honest right now. When I heard we were doing a show, a whole show on a stupid shoe, I was like, why are we doing this? I'm just going to be honest. I was like, we shouldn't be doing a show on a shoe, right? And then I stuck my foot inside of this thing. And I have never, ever, ever in my life had my foot feel so good, ever. In all my years of walking this earth, I put my foot in this

• 17:00Chuck Nice?

  shoe, and it is the best damn thing that ever happened to my foot. And here's the thing. It's like half a size too small, and I still didn't want to take it off. Unbelievable. And I'm sorry. Ugly stepsister. What's that? Ugly stepsister. I am the ugly stepsister. No Cinderella. And I was just like, I don't care. Please. So let me ask you, Mike, first of all, from, from the comfort standpoint, you made this for, of course, the performance for Mike Trout. But how is it that you're able to get that form fit and that comfort and that just, I don't know, man. I don't know how to explain it. That's, it's like your foot is just, it's

• 17:42Chuck Nice?

  like your foot is inside of like a sex room or something. It's unbelievable. How, what? Come back to us. What happens to make that happen? Seriously?

• 17:53Speaker 02

  Well, I I think I'll pass that description along to the team. They'll be excited to hear. So well received. I think I think we do. We do a lot of stuff. And in baseball, probably to kind of preface, the number one comment in request we get from athletes is to make a comfortable cleat and a comfortable trainer, because so much of the game, I mean, baseball is a three hour game and there

• 18:15Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 18:16Speaker 02

  A lot of standing, a lot of jogging. It's just got to be comfortable over a six month season.

• 18:21Chuck Nice?

  Okay.

• 18:22Speaker 02

  And turf shoe and also on the cleat, we use a Zoom Air cushioning. So you'll see on the shoe, there's a couple of orange hexagonal pods.

• 18:31Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 18:31Gary O'Reilly?

  You'll see that through the sole on the bottom. Yeah.

• 18:34Speaker 02

  Yep. And so those are specifically placed, taken off the data mapping from when Mike was in the lab in the heel and two up in the forefoot to eliminate on the cleat, the stud pressure. So the metal, they're jabbing up into the bottom of your foot. We want to make it so an athlete doesn't feel that. And then on the turf, kind of the same sensation, just that comfort, uh, coupled with the foam, just to basically give your foot a vacation while you're on the baseball field. That was really what we were getting after there. And Zoom, Zoom is cool because it's air, but then there's also nylon fibers in there that will give you a little bit of rebound. So you get a little energy return with each step.

• 19:12Chuck Nice?

  Well, I gotta tell you, I've, I, I, and listen, people, I don't care if you call me a shill. I don't care what you think. I don't, Nike doesn't give us any money. They are not sponsoring this. No, there is no reason for us to endorse this.

• 19:26Gary O'Reilly?

  You are happy.

• 19:26Chuck Nice?

  I have never endorsed a product on this show. Okay. And I am telling you right now, I have never in my life put my foot in a shoe and had it feel so good. And you just explained why. Basically, this is what ball players want. They want comfort.

• 19:41Gary O'Reilly?

  One more comfort.

• 19:41Chuck Nice?

  And you guys have.

• 19:42Gary O'Reilly?

  And it's a practical reason.

• 19:43Chuck Nice?

  Yeah. You've succeeded swimmingly. I can't believe it. It's so, I'm enough of me. I'm sorry.

• 19:48Gary O'Reilly?

  Let me, let me address the cleat here with you, please, Mike, because you've got a variety of cleats on the sole. There, some are a certain shape, some are just very slightly smaller and flat, but they're all basically at slightly different angles. Now, is this specific to every cleat you make? Or is this now something that you've developed purely from the Trout Five?

• 20:15Speaker 02

  The actual placement of the studs on that Trout 5 are very similar to where Nike cleats have been in the past probably five to 10 years. And I think it's also been derived from pressure data of rotational forces and translational forces of what the foot's doing in different baseball moves, where you need traction and where each cleat has a very specific function. Like at the very tip of the toe for toe off, you need a cleat there. For baseball's a very rotational game, so you need, that's why they're kind of almost in circular patterns. Whereas if you think about taking a swing or stealing a base, there's that kind of step and drive rotational move.

• 20:57Speaker 02

  And so those cleats, they're, they're in the same spots of where we've been in the past. I think they're, as, when you look underfoot, it almost looks like a Spider-Man design. Yes. Generative structure that is directly informed from a Mike Trout pressure map. And we have smaller cells where you need more structure, more stiffness. And then ones where you need like up in the forefoot, where you need more flexibility to make it more feel, touch more like a running shoe. Cool, man.

• 21:24Gary O'Reilly?

  The interesting thing is you've got someone who's naturally quick, hence the stealing of bases, someone who can hit it for as far as you ever need to hit a baseball. So then you've got a guy who's running and the outfield, the infield is an unforgiving place in terms of shoes because you're diving, you're scraping through. How do you combine lightweight, strength and durability? Has, has that proved a problem? Because you think back to the days gone by, it would have been canvas or whatever material was available.

• 21:59Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I think that's inherently the challenge in, in making cleats is that, especially for a guy like Mike Trout, you need to do all those things and then he's such a big athletic freak athlete. He's an NFL linebacker who is amazingly good at baseball. And so, yeah, we're always looking to find the most lightweight but still supportive materials. And then they also have to withstand a long season on dirt and grass and all sorts of junk that baseball players can throw them. And so being able to do that, that's what drives our innovation. So we're always going

• 22:39Speaker 02

  to get, you can, I mean, you can do my job. What you just said, lightweight and supportive and durable and comfortable, that's what we're trying to do here. And as for Trial Five, we're, we're in a really good spot for providing that for Mike Trout.

• 22:54Gary O'Reilly?

  I think if you got me to work for you designing at Nike, it'd be like that episode where Homer Simpson designed a car. The Homer? Yeah. Oh, pun unintended, pun unintended. Yeah, that would be, I'd, I'd, I'd make the Homer. Please don't do that. Very nice. But has there been something that's come along since you've been working with Nike in, in this capacity that has changed the game in terms of how you go about making this sort of footwear?

• 23:23Speaker 02

  I, I think honestly, the generative nature of this cleat, of actually taking data direct from the athlete doing moves is something that's a very new space, not only in baseball, but Nike's done it on some, some track spikes and also in basketball a bit, but really engineering the cleats exactly to the athlete need using data, computational design. It's a kind of getting us into a new spot where the cleats are truly designed based on the athlete needs. And we can take it all the way back to two years ago when Mike Trout was in the lab and we could see exactly what his foot was doing, the data that was generated off that of where

• 24:06Speaker 02

  the foot is applying more pressure, where there's less, and apply that directly to the final product to give him what he needs.

• 24:14Chuck Nice?

  So final question, let me ask you this.

• 24:16Gary O'Reilly?

  Go on.

• 24:17Chuck Nice?

  Mike Trout's six, can we expect it to, when you take them off, will it walk to the store and get you a coffee and come back?

• 24:25Speaker 02

  I don't know if I can guarantee that, but we're taking well, hopefully the success of this five and then making the six even better.

• 24:33Chuck Nice?

  Sweet, man.

• 24:34Gary O'Reilly?

  Isn't that just?

• 24:35Chuck Nice?

  Wow, I gotta tell you, man.

• 24:36Gary O'Reilly?

  You're impressed.

• 24:37Chuck Nice?

  I'm impressed.

• 24:38Gary O'Reilly?

  I mean, if anyone thinks Chuck's been faking it, no. You should have seen his little face when he put that shoe on. Oh, man.

• 24:45Chuck Nice?

  Because Quiades is kept when it comes to this kind of stuff. I'm kind of a hater. I always think that it's just marketing stuff, to be honest. I always think like companies do this kind of stuff just to have like marketing points. Like everything you said, it's for real. It's not like you guys are doing this for real, man. So congratulations is all I gotta say.

• 25:04Gary O'Reilly?

  Carry on the good work, sir. And congratulations to your team.

• 25:09Speaker 02

  All right, well, thanks for the time, guys. I'll pass it along to the guys.

• 25:11Gary O'Reilly?

  And I'm sure Chuck will email you his size sometime in the very near future.

• 25:16Speaker 02

  All right.

• 25:17Chuck Nice?

  Don't say that on the air. That's not cool.

• 25:18Gary O'Reilly?

  Yes, it is.

• 25:19Chuck Nice?

  It's gonna happen, though.

• 25:20Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah. Certainly gonna happen. Right, to Mike Exrum, thank you so much indeed. Product line manager at Nike. We will take a break.

• 25:29Chuck Nice?

  Yes, and when we come back, it's that man, the man himself.

• 25:33Gary O'Reilly?

  Yes, Mr. Trout, or Mike Trout to you. Yeah, stick around, you're gonna wanna hear what he has to say. We're back shortly.

• 25:45Gary O'Reilly?

  We have not just Nike's involvement once again, but the opportunity to speak to one of the game's current superstars.

• 25:53Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, and probably.

• 25:55Gary O'Reilly?

  Probably.

• 25:55Chuck Nice?

  Probably.

• 25:56Gary O'Reilly?

  Maybe, definitely.

• 25:57Chuck Nice?

  The best player in baseball right now, which is so cool to be able to have him here.

• 26:04Gary O'Reilly?

  And it's so Mike Trout. Mike Trout, pleasure to have you, sir. Thank you for being our guest. You've got a brand new shoe coming out, the Trout 5. We will get to that shortly, but first of all.

• 26:17Gary O'Reilly?

  Wow.

• 26:18Chuck Nice?

  How's it feel to be the best player in baseball right now? Come on, come on and tell the truth, Mike. Give it to us, Mike. Give us the truth, man. You're the best damn player in baseball, brother. Come on, how's that feel? That's gotta feel great.

• 26:31Speaker 03

  It feels great. You know, I enjoy playing this game.

• 26:35Speaker 03

  You know, my mentality is to try to be the best player every day on the field. Come in, learn new things. Just try to get better each and every day. If it's, you know, offensively or defensively, I just, I enjoy, I enjoy playing this game. I have so much fun. I'm so much passionate to try to win. And, you know, I just love coming to the ballpark.

• 26:55Gary O'Reilly?

  How do you keep that drive? Because it's, it's, it's okay. People say, oh, I need to improve. But there's some guys that do, some guys that don't. I mean, I'm putting you in the do category, just in case you were worried. How do you keep that momentum?

• 27:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, I, I always have fun doing it. All right. You know, since I was a little kid.

• 27:19Speaker 03

  You know, I just, if it involves any, any, any kind of sport, my competition and my

• 27:26Speaker 03

  competitiveness for the sport, it doesn't matter what, what it is, I want to win. And, you know, you can ask my family, my wife. If it's anything involves, you know, winning, you know, I, I always try to win. And, you know, sometimes with my wife, it's, you know, we argue.

• 27:45Chuck Nice?

  And you don't win, and you don't win, Mike. Tell the truth. Guess what? You lose, and you know it. You know you lose.

• 27:51Speaker 03

  It's, you know, it's tough when you, you're winning and losing with your wife.

• 27:55Chuck Nice?

  That's right.

• 27:56Speaker 03

  But, you know, it's, it's, for me is, I love winning and I do whatever I can to, you know, get better each and every day. And, you know, I want, I have fun doing it. I play, I play the game hard. And, you know, I enjoy, like I said, I enjoy coming to the park every day and seeing my teammates and, you know, coaches and, you know, going out there and competing.

• 28:16Gary O'Reilly?

  Is there a part of the game, sorry Chuck, is there a part of the game that you have found more difficult to come to terms with? Because you seem to have a quite a wide-reaching skill set. Something you don't know, right? But is there, is there an element that you think, oh, I really haven't got that down yet?

• 28:35Speaker 03

  You know, obviously, the offensive side, you know, the numbers are there, but you know, it's it's it's hard. It's not.

• 28:41Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 28:42Speaker 03

  You know, you're gonna for you're gonna fail majority of the time.

• 28:45Chuck Nice?

  Yeah.

• 28:46Speaker 03

  But, uh, you know, if you get hits three out of 10, you know, it's, uh, you're doing something good.

• 28:51Chuck Nice?

  You're you're a superstar, man. Yeah.

• 28:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's it's tough. It's it's challenging, you know, it's it's it's it's every pitch, every at bat. Um, the mental side of the game is is is is tough. You know, if you you easily, you know, the game humbles you pretty quick. And if you think you, uh, you think you got it figured out, you know.

• 29:09Chuck Nice?

  Hmm.

• 29:10Speaker 03

  You go through some stretches where you're, you know, you're seeing the ball like a beach ball and, you know, the next day, you're you're over four. So it's it it it'll humble you. It's a it's a tough game. Uh, offensively, it's just it's about adjustments and make it adjust.

• 29:25Chuck Nice?

  Hey, we've. Speaking of that, so listen to this. Couple of years ago, this was what they were saying. So like that, uh, Mike Trout had a weakness and the weakness was up and in. All right. You go up and in on Mike Trout and guess what? You'll frustrate him. That is no longer a weakness, my friend. I have been watching you, buddy. That is no longer a weakness. Told you about stalking major league baseball players. All I can, all I can say is if if you're talking about the mental aspect of the game, what do you do to overcome that? Because when pitchers are looking at you, now you're screwing with their head because they're thinking, I'm gonna go up and in on Mike and then you pop one on them and they're like, wait a minute.

• 30:07Chuck Nice?

  That was supposed to work. Now they're thinking about you differently the next time they face you. How do you do that mentally?

• 30:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, um, for me, it's, uh, it's kind of crazy because obviously, you know, last year and a few years ago, they were, you know, getting me out up, you know, I was swinging at it. And I think the biggest thing is I was telling myself not to swing at it. And once I sw- I saw it, you know, I was swinging at it. So I just told myself if I if I get on time and my foot's down and I'm seeing the ball good, um, you know, I won't swing at it and I'll just lay off that pitch. And I think I was I was mentally telling myself not to swing at it and it was making me swing at it. So, you know, it's, I I knew they were pit- they were pitching up and, um, you know, I I just told myself just be on time and. You know, I usually take that pitch. I did work on it in the cage and, you know, in BP,

• 30:59Speaker 03

  just, you know, the ball's up, just trying to get on top of it. And that helped me out a little bit because, you know, there's still a strike zone up there and, you know, the guys and, you know, pitchers, they like to throw up there, you know, especially nowadays with, you know, guys throwing, you know, hundreds. So it's, it's tough. But like I said, the mental side is just staying, you know, you get frustrated sometimes because you're swinging at it, you know. And I think for me, if I tell myself that not to swing at it, it kind of, you know, reverse effect and I swing at it. So I just don't even worry about it and, you know, just make, just tell myself I get my foot down on time, I won't swing at it.

• 31:38Gary O'Reilly?

  So we spoke with Ned Colletti, the former Dodgers, if I'm allowed to mention them in your presence, GM. And he said that they were working with players on the cognitive skills, the mental expansion of their game, not just the hours in the batting cages. You obviously have done. But do you find the Angels are working in a similar way with you and the other players?

• 32:01Speaker 03

  It's, yeah, it is. You know, the mental, the mental side of the game is huge in the game of baseball. You know, for me, it's really big. I always stay positive. You know, you go through stretches where it's negative. You know, like I say, you're going to fail, fail a lot in this game. And, you know, if you stay positive and, you know, the Angels, you know, bringing guys and, you know, we have, you know, a mental guy that comes in and just, you know, helps us out. And just if you need help or, you know, just visualize, you know, I think the biggest thing is visualize and everything before it happens. You know, put positive thoughts in your head, get the negative out. Don't even think about the negative. And, you know, if you go up there, if you're on deck and you tell yourself, man, this guy's a tough pitcher, you're gonna, you know, you don't want to strike out, you're

• 32:44Speaker 03

  gonna strike out. It is how, that's how it works. You know, you're thinking about it and, you know, it's gonna happen. But if you say, hey, you know, he's a good pitcher, but I got, you know, if I could put a good swing on a ball, get a good pitch to hit, I'm gonna, you know, hit the ball hard. So it's a, it's a big, big, big side of baseball nowadays. You know, it's it's helped me out throughout my.

• 33:04Chuck Nice?

  Let's let's talk about the opposite side of that. Which is, so you got the mental side, but then you also have the work. And Albert Polo says that you are probably like the hardest working guy on the team. But yet here you are, the best player in baseball. A lot of people would feel like, you know, maybe I don't have to be the hardest working guy. Yet, the example that you're setting is just the opposite. So tell me about that work ethic and exactly where do you find joy in that work ethic?

• 33:37Speaker 03

  Yeah, um, you know, there it's a long season, so obviously you gotta, you know, stay healthy. You know, we're going through crazy stretch right now with injuries. But, um, you know, I try to keep the same routine, you know, and obviously when Albert, you know, mentioned that he, uh, he's one of the guys that, you know, I look up to and, you know, when I first started coming here, he, um, he he stuck with his routine and, you know, he comes to the ballpark with a purpose. And, you know, my routine is simple. Um, you know, I come to the ballpark, you know, I get a I get a lift in, you know, once a series. Yeah, I come in and, you know, some days I don't even hit BP. I try to get off my feet.

• 34:18Speaker 03

  Uh, I go out there, stretch, throw a little bit, but then I, you know, come in and, you know, around six o'clock for a game, I go to the cage, you know, hit a few off the tee, um, just to get my swing playing right and I do some flips. Um, then I hit, uh, some live pitching for a couple, you know, swings and then I hit some curveballs. But I but I try to keep the same routine every day. You know, I think that's big in this game is to keep the same routine and.

• 34:42Chuck Nice?

  Interesting.

• 34:44Speaker 03

  Have a purpose. It's a long season, so you gotta keep your your body healthy and that I think that's the biggest part is to just feel and, you know, some days you're gonna go out there and games you wake up and you're tired and your legs are a little little heavy, but you just gotta grind through it. You know, you're playing a game, you're getting, you know, paid to get, uh, to go out there and compete and have fun. And, you know, it's, uh, you're blessed to go out there and put that jersey on and, you know, you. Yeah, I I just always tell myself, I'm always out here having fun. You know, don't worry about all that stuff and you know, go from there.

• 35:16Chuck Nice?

  Good man, good man.

• 35:16Gary O'Reilly?

  I think I I think if I'm not mistaken, you are probably now the first real superstar of the deep statistical analysis that is now ever present in Major League Baseball. We can go back through the list of the people that have gone before you and you you're blessed to be in those same conversations. But how much do you drill down into the big data of stats and numbers for your own personal game?

• 35:42Speaker 03

  Um, you know, it's funny because I don't I don't like looking at that stuff.

• 35:46Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 35:48Speaker 03

  You know, it's obviously out there. Um, but, uh, you know, a lot of, a lot of, for me, it's keeping it simple. I think if I if I look at, look at, uh, too much data or look at my launch angle, um, look at, uh, just different things. You know, there's so much, so many scatter reports, so much, you know, percentages here, percentages there on pitches. Um, you know, like for me, I, my routine is looking at the pitch like tonight, the starter, you know, looking at his, looking at his pitches tonight, you know, fastball, curveball, slider, changeup. Look at his percentage, what's he go to, you know, his off, uh, his off, his secondary pitches and, you know, just keep it simple as that. Yeah, I don't look at.

• 36:29Chuck Nice?

  You know what it sounds like to me, Mike? It sounds like to me like you're a guy who has like this subconscious philosophy of I'm not going to get in my own head. I'm not, I'm

• 36:40Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 36:41Chuck Nice?

  Get out of my own way. Out of my own head. I'm going to stay out of my own way.

• 36:46Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 36:47Speaker 03

  I think if you get that little guy off your shoulder.

• 36:49Chuck Nice?

  Yeah.

• 36:50Speaker 03

  He won't talking to you. I think, uh,

• 36:51Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 36:52Speaker 03

  It it is because you, once you, once you put thoughts in your head to the mental side, I think that's when you get in trouble. You know, if if if you're telling yourself, uh, not to swing or not to do this, not to, you know, if you you strike out, you you you're going to do it. So it's, uh, for me, it's like, I just, I just try to keep it as simple as possible. You know, know he's, know he's got a fastball and know his his secondary pitches and, you know, keep it as simple as that. You know, if I go up there and look at percentages, say, oh, oh, it's two, he's throwing a slider in the dirt, I'm not going to swing and then. You know, you go up there, you take a fastball middle away, you're like, you know, what's going on here? And a lot of guys pitch you different, you know, it's some percentages, you know, there'll be 1%

• 37:35Speaker 03

  and you'll have a, you'll have a, a big battle and you haven't seen that pitch yet and then they'll throw it. You know, there's that 1%, so it's, it's, it's, it's, there's a lot of things you can, a lot of, uh, like reports and data nowadays, um, you know, guys can look into. You know, I know a lot of guys that like that stuff, but for me, it's just keeping it simple.

• 37:56Chuck Nice?

  Well, there you go, man. I'm gonna call that MVP advice.

• 37:59Gary O'Reilly?

  There you go.

• 38:00Chuck Nice?

  Out of your own head, keep it simple, man.

• 38:02Gary O'Reilly?

  Right, let's talk, let's talk about the shoes because invariably that's why we're here. Um, the Trout Five, uh, congratulations on the three, previous four.

• 38:10Chuck Nice?

  Yeah.

• 38:11Gary O'Reilly?

  And congratulations on this. How much involvement have you had personally with the, the way that this shoe's designed? Because of the specifics in your own particular game?

• 38:21Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's, um, you know, it was crazy because, you know, when I went to the campus and, you know, uh, got tested, you know, did all this stuff for, um, you know, my feet and, you know, just the involvement of, um, so much detail is incredible. And, uh, to, for me to, you know, go in there and see what they can do to make it lighter, make it more comfortable. Make it, just, just the ability to do all that stuff to put in a shoe and a cleat. And, you know, for me is I want to go out there and be comfortable. You know, I want a shoe I can, I can trust to, you know, have great support and be comfortable and obviously be light. And, uh, you know, when I went to the, um, you know, the facility in, in Oregon, it was, um,

• 39:06Speaker 03

  you know, the factory was, uh, pretty crazy, pretty crazy, all the stuff they, they could do to your feet and figure out, like your pressure points or which, which way do you, you know, when you're running around the bases and we hit the base, what, what pressure on your big toe, you know, it's just crazy stuff that, uh, that goes into a cleat and. You know, nowadays that you can, you make a perfect cleat.

• 39:27Gary O'Reilly?

  See, but you have such a different, you have such a wide, we've talked about it, a wide ranging skillset. It's not just about anchoring your feet when you're hitting. But you, you tear up the bases, dude. You're stealing those things for fun.

• 39:40Chuck Nice?

  And forget just that. I mean, it's like, one of the things you do in center field is you actually steal home. So you hit home runs, but you also steal home runs, which means you, which means you gotta get up and you gotta get some vertical like height and, and as well as be able to have the stability to run the bases. So, uh, you know, that's pretty important.

• 39:59Gary O'Reilly?

  When, when you went in there, did you think they would be able to build a shoe that Mike Trout went, "Yeah, wow, this covers everything."

• 40:07Speaker 03

  You know, going in there and seeing, you know, everything they could, uh, they could do and, uh, find out about your foot. Um, you know, after, you know, when I put it on, it was, you know, it was basically what you just said, just wow. Um, you know, it's, it's pretty, like I said, the technology nowadays and, you know, I, I was finding stuff on my feet that I didn't even know I had, like just pressure points and just

• 40:32Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah.

• 40:32Speaker 03

  uh, heat zones and it's just so incredible, the technology. It's, uh, it's pretty remarkable and, you know, I, um, yeah, I, I can't thank them enough for, you know, obviously, you know, being one of their, their athletes and, you know, making shoes and, you know, the process has been unbelievable. Um, having so much fun with it, you know, I'm just, uh, very blessed for sure.

• 40:53Gary O'Reilly?

  Mike, I, I, I, just from talking to, I know you're proud to have your name on these shoes. So we wish you the very best of luck with the Trout Fives, very best of luck for the season with the Angels and for the rest of your career. So it's been a pleasure. Thank you so much for sharing this time with us.

• 41:08Chuck Nice?

  Yeah. Keep up the outstanding work, my friend.

• 41:11Gary O'Reilly?

  Keep doing it.

• 41:12Speaker 03

  Well, um, uh, you know, I always got that drive and

• 41:15Chuck Nice?

  That's right.

• 41:16Speaker 03

  go out there and, uh, you know, compete and have some fun. So.

• 41:19Gary O'Reilly?

  A bit simple. So that's our show. Thank you to the one and only baseball superstar, Mike Trout. And of course.

• 41:28Chuck Nice?

  Mike Ekstrom.

• 41:29Gary O'Reilly?

  Our new best friend, Mike Ekstrom.

• 41:30Chuck Nice?

  You know it.

• 41:31Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah.

• 41:32Chuck Nice?

  Gonna email him right after the show.

• 41:33Gary O'Reilly?

  Guess what size Chuck and Gary are? Yeah. Oh yeah. We'll be dancing down the street, a new pair of Nikes. That'd be fun. Right. Uh, this has been Playing with Science. I'm Gary O'Reilly.

• 41:45Chuck Nice?

  And I'm Chuck Nice.

• 41:45Gary O'Reilly?

  And I hope you've had fun. We look forward to your company very, very soon.