Is Marvel Back? Plus, ‘Buffy’ Reboot News, and ‘The Pitt’ Episode 6

Chris and Andy talk about the trailers for ‘The Fantastic Four: First Steps’ (11:57) and ‘Captain America: Brave New World’ (18:47) and discuss whether the MCU might be getting good again. Then, they discuss the news that Oscar-winning director Chloe Zhao is involved in a potential ‘Buffy’ reboot (30:16), before breaking down the latest episode of ‘The Pitt’ (41:47). Hosts: Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald Producer: Kaya McMullen Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Look, it's not that confusing. I'm Rob Harvilla, host of the podcast 60 Songs That Explain the 90s, except we did 120 songs. And now we're back with the 2000s. I refuse to say aughts. 2000 to 2009. The Strokes, Rihanna, J Lo, Kanye, sure. And now the show is called 60 Songs That Explain the 90s: The 2000s. Wow. That's too long a title for me to say anything else right now. Just trust me. That's 60 Songs That Explain the 90s: The 2000s, preferably on Spotify.

• 0:38Speaker 01

  I need sports to have to clear the room.

• 0:41Chris Ryan?

  Stand up and walk now. Hello and welcome to The Watch. My name is Chris Ryan. I am an editor at theringer.com. And joining me in the studio, looking like Galacticus.

• 0:54Andy Greenwald?

  Nope.

• 0:55Chris Ryan?

  Galactus?

• 0:55Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, keep it though.

• 0:57Chris Ryan?

  It's Andy Greenwald. What's up, man?

• 1:01Andy Greenwald?

  One of the things I love about you, and there's so many, is I think sometimes you mess up comic book stuff on purpose to signal that you're still cool.

• 1:08Chris Ryan?

  I would never admit to it one way or the other.

• 1:10Andy Greenwald?

  No, I know.

• 1:11Chris Ryan?

  Greenwald, it's great to see you. It's great to have Kaia back on the pod today on the dials. A couple of housekeeping things.

• 1:17Andy Greenwald?

  Okay.

• 1:18Chris Ryan?

  Number one, we often have just casual sports banter on this podcast. If you would like to hear it happen for an hour, Unchecked by Shiel Kapadia on the Philly Special Podcast, Andy and I appeared on the Philly Special Pod as a Super Bowl preview pod. That should be going up today. Shout out to Shiel, shout out to all the guys down in New Orleans making great Super Bowl content for The Ringer. Would you like to comment?

• 1:39Andy Greenwald?

  I just want to say that was the highlight of my year. That was a dream come true.

• 1:43Chris Ryan?

  It kind of was disturbing how much happier you were doing that pod than The Watch.

• 1:46Andy Greenwald?

  That's the only pod I listen to.

• 1:48Chris Ryan?

  A couple of housekeeping things. You can watch The Watch on YouTube at ringer-tv is the channel. You can watch us on Prestige TV on the YouTube channel, talking about Severance, talking about the pit, talking about Jalen Hurts, all sorts of things.

• 2:03Andy Greenwald?

  Can they watch us talking about Jalen Hurts?

• 2:04Chris Ryan?

  If you want to see us in short form video or candid photos, I'm doing tons of get ready with me's meal preps. It's all happening.

• 2:12Andy Greenwald?

  Nice, nice.

• 2:13Chris Ryan?

  On the watchpod underscore on Instagram.

• 2:16Andy Greenwald?

  How I travel. Yeah. My daughter just showed me a YouTube. Of a woman whose whole YouTube personality is making fun of other people on YouTube.

• 2:25Chris Ryan?

  That's a huge thing.

• 2:26Andy Greenwald?

  But like, that is, that is an Ouroboros that I am just unaware of. But I also think they're unaware of. I was trying to ask my younger daughter why she thought it was so funny that this woman was like naming her Stanley water bottles and showing that she was flying in a luxurious way, but it wasn't actually luxurious. And she said, no. She just thought it was funny. Do you know what I mean?

• 2:46Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 2:46Andy Greenwald?

  So I, anyway, I'm thrilled that we're on YouTube.

• 2:49Chris Ryan?

  Today on the podcast.

• 2:51Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 2:52Chris Ryan?

  We go back to our, to our old friends in Burbank. Marvel Studios.

• 2:57Andy Greenwald?

  So great.

• 2:58Chris Ryan?

  We're gonna talk a little bit about Fantastic Four, the trailer dropped the other day. I have an email from a listener about Captain America Brave New World that I'll be sharing. We also wanted to talk a little about your friendly neighborhood Spider-Man. Is that what it's called?

• 3:12Andy Greenwald?

  Yet Galacticus, you nailed it again.

• 3:13Chris Ryan?

  Uh, which we skipped around on. A little bit of other news and we'll talk about The Pitt, episode six.

• 3:19Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, was it five or six? Six.

• 3:21Chris Ryan?

  Six.

• 3:21Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 3:22Chris Ryan?

  So this episode's gonna be going up Thursday evening. So people, check out The Pit, check out the pod. Monday, we will be back. We'll be talking about Severance. We'll be talking about Paradise, I imagine. The only show that matters.

• 3:34Andy Greenwald?

  This is, yeah, we gotta catch up on Paradise. I have not yet seen the fourth episode, which I guess is sort of jaw dropping from, maybe they all are.

• 3:41Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 3:42Andy Greenwald?

  Maybe not for the reasons intended, but we're gonna find out. This has been a big week for us as we get into this. We've made a lot of memories together this week and I wanted to just check in, see how you're feeling about it because we recorded our podcast on Monday. Later that evening, we went downtown and we were very lucky to be guests of our friend, Mina Kimes, on a charity podcast that she did. Mina Kimes and Lenny Show that you can listen to or watch on YouTube. Yesterday, we were invited to speak at a class at AFI here, which was really fun. I think we both really enjoyed that. And earlier today, we did the Philly Special Podcast and look at us, still here, looking at each other. And like, is there anything you wanna get off your chest? Do you feel like this has been broadly good for us?

• 4:20Chris Ryan?

  It's interesting. It's interesting to be taking this step with you after so many years of, of really doing the Martin Luther Lewis thing across town.

• 4:28Andy Greenwald?

  Just taking their show on the road?

• 4:30Chris Ryan?

  It's fun. I would say I've, I've enjoyed myself.

• 4:32Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, me too.

• 4:33Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, I've seen you more than I've seen my wife.

• 4:35Andy Greenwald?

  Yep.

• 4:36Chris Ryan?

  But that's cool, you know?

• 4:38Andy Greenwald?

  I did try to get your wife to come out Monday. I sidechanneled just to see.

• 4:42Chris Ryan?

  Did you really?

• 4:43Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, just, you know, just check in.

• 4:44Chris Ryan?

  You texted my wife behind my back to be like, come to the Mina pod?

• 4:48Andy Greenwald?

  Well, I was worried about you, you know, I just. No, I think it was on the group chat. But I did think the other thing, and I'm mostly bringing this up because I wonder if our listeners will notice. If this helps with our rapport, or is in fact hindered it.

• 5:01Chris Ryan?

  No.

• 5:01Andy Greenwald?

  Because we're all talked out. Because not only did we do all those things, but we also talked on the phone on the way to the Mina Pod, on the way back from the class yesterday.

• 5:10Chris Ryan?

  We were looking for parking.

• 5:11Andy Greenwald?

  Okay, I was trying to make it sweeter.

• 5:12Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 5:14Andy Greenwald?

  We did end up parking next to each other.

• 5:15Chris Ryan?

  Before we get into all this Marvel stuff, before we get into the TV talk, I want to try and keep a consistent energy with these non non-TV letters of recommendation.

• 5:26Andy Greenwald?

  Oh.

• 5:27Chris Ryan?

  Things that we're enjoying, things that we're just taking down in our free time. When we're not under the eye of Big Lumen, you know?

• 5:35Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 5:35Chris Ryan?

  Just grinding tape.

• 5:36Andy Greenwald?

  You're not gonna believe what I've got. Yeah, go on.

• 5:38Chris Ryan?

  What is your non-TV letter of recommendation this week?

• 5:40Andy Greenwald?

  You want to go first?

• 5:41Chris Ryan?

  No, I want you to go first.

• 5:42Andy Greenwald?

  Okay, I'm gonna grab it, because you're not even gonna believe this. And we are on video now.

• 5:45Chris Ryan?

  Okay. You're gonna grab it?

• 5:46Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, yeah, I brought it. It's something I want to recommend to you, too.

• 5:50Chris Ryan?

  Okay, great. That's awesome.

• 5:51Andy Greenwald?

  Phil, bam.

• 5:52Chris Ryan?

  Andy's reaching into a beige bag. I've noticed that his color story has started to become quite muted.

• 5:58Andy Greenwald?

  I know. Well, that's because you were really popping this week. Your darker tone today.

• 6:03Chris Ryan?

  It's raining, yeah.

• 6:04Andy Greenwald?

  Okay, so I brought a graphic novel.

• 6:05Chris Ryan?

  Holy shit.

• 6:06Andy Greenwald?

  That I never thought I would. Do you know what it is? Can you see?

• 6:08Chris Ryan?

  Is it?

• 6:09Andy Greenwald?

  This is so crazy. It's Transformers.

• 6:12Chris Ryan?

  Oh, okay. I thought this was like Age of Apocalypse. I was about to freak out.

• 6:16Andy Greenwald?

  Just like triggered? Would you be like Mark S. at the end of that episode of Severance?

• 6:20Chris Ryan?

  Okay, it's a graphic novel with the Transformers.

• 6:21Andy Greenwald?

  I want to be clear about a couple of things. Transformers were enormous deal to me.

• 6:25Chris Ryan?

  Your energy level just got way too high.

• 6:27Andy Greenwald?

  Okay, let me one.

• 6:29Chris Ryan?

  No, I just.

• 6:29Andy Greenwald?

  I just want to say that.

• 6:30Chris Ryan?

  Never heard you talk about the Transformers.

• 6:32Andy Greenwald?

  Because I'm nervous. This is a little weird. Like, I was gonna say they were huge for me in 1984.

• 6:37Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 6:38Andy Greenwald?

  Okay, because the toys were cool.

• 6:39Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 6:40Andy Greenwald?

  Thus endeth my interest in the robots in disguise. I have not seen the Michael Bay movies. I do not care about any of that. And it's carried on to the next generation. I don't want to gender it, but my children think Transformers are, quote, stupid. Okay, so they have not been a part of my life. So I was very surprised when I read a recommendation for this online, but there is a new comic book series published by Image, written and drawn by a guy called Daniel Warren Johnson.

• 7:07Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 7:07Andy Greenwald?

  And it's incredible. The art is so beautiful and so compelling, and he found a way to make these just like toy licensing stories really, really compelling, and I recommend it.

• 7:18Chris Ryan?

  Where does it take place in the sort of Transformers chronology?

• 7:22Andy Greenwald?

  It starts it over. It's basically like they wake up on Earth having fled Cybertron, but like now Optimus Prime has these moments where he like sees like everything here is so soft and beautiful.

• 7:34Chris Ryan?

  Just wait a couple of years, Optimus.

• 7:35Andy Greenwald?

  Exactly. I guess it's still the 80s. But yeah, I mean, I take a look. I think it's like, I think it's really interesting and really compelling and

• 7:45Chris Ryan?

  Oh, these Americans with their USAID. So beautiful.

• 7:49Andy Greenwald?

  We must help them.

• 7:50Chris Ryan?

  Nothing's gonna happen to that.

• 7:51Andy Greenwald?

  No, I do feel like the Decepticons' argument that everything here is fragile and squishy and thus fun to destroy might resonate in a different way. But anyway, I never thought that I would be using this podcast to be like, hey, Transformers content is cool, but this guy Daniel Warren Johnson is really talented and I recommend people checking it out.

• 8:08Chris Ryan?

  That's a great letter of recommendation. I'm gonna go for a novel that I'm reading right now. It's called Playworld.

• 8:14Andy Greenwald?

  Okay, point Dexter.

• 8:15Chris Ryan?

  It's by an author named Adam Ross.

• 8:18Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, I want to read this.

• 8:19Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, I got just straight up. I'm drafting off of Anthony Jeselnik's book recommendations. I've mentioned this before, but Anthony Jeselnik, obviously one of the more accomplished stand-up comedians in the world right now, is a voracious reader who makes these recommendations on his Instagram. He used to or was doing them on his pod for a while, but now mostly throws up a book every week on Instagram that he's loving. Playworld is a novel about a young, like early teen child actor slash high school wrestler.

• 8:51Andy Greenwald?

  Okay.

• 8:51Chris Ryan?

  Who is having an affair with an older married woman. And is set in the early 80s in New York City and has a both sense of place with that, a sense of mayhem with like this kid moving through like performing arts school and his day job as like an actor on a square one type TV show. And obviously having this sexual experience with this older woman.

• 9:18Andy Greenwald?

  Your voice got weird. I know my voice got weird when I said Transformers, but I watched your mouth.

• 9:24Chris Ryan?

  Fucking Megatron jumped out.

• 9:26Andy Greenwald?

  I watched your mouth catch up to your brain in that moment being like, and now I'm gonna say this sexual experience with an older woman. You're like, that's what I'm gonna say next. Okay, we're part committed here.

• 9:37Chris Ryan?

  Okay, uh, it's great. People have compared it to, it has a little bit of a like, of like a Holden Caulfield, Salinger kind of vibe. I think that its descriptions of childhood, especially in like a big east coast city in that time period are very resonant to me. It's a beautifully written book, and I highly, highly recommend it. So that's Play World by Adam Ross.

• 9:59Andy Greenwald?

  Did you find in your own high school experience, which was later than the book, the time the book is set?

• 10:04Chris Ryan?

  Yes, that was more than the 90s.

• 10:05Andy Greenwald?

  Was there a lot of overlap between?

• 10:07Chris Ryan?

  I thought you were gonna ask something else.

• 10:09Andy Greenwald?

  I might. It's, I got that in my pocket in case things get dull.

• 10:13Chris Ryan?

  Did I ever meet a transformer in real life?

• 10:15Andy Greenwald?

  A transforming older woman in real life. Um, no, I didn't, in my experience, I didn't have a lot of crossover between wrestling team and the plays.

• 10:24Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 10:25Andy Greenwald?

  Those were often, they were competing, they were at the same time, and they were kind of different camp.

• 10:30Chris Ryan?

  Wrestling, I, so, I never was into wrestling. I never really enjoyed it. Um, and I was way more into like, I think basketball happened at the same time as wrestling, or was wrestling a fall sport?

• 10:41Andy Greenwald?

  No, wrestling and basketball and the winter play at my school were all the same time.

• 10:46Chris Ryan?

  I probably would have liked, I mean, I couldn't, I couldn't get less playing time doing wrestling than I did play, playing high school basketball. But it, you know, I just enjoyed the culture of hoops, you know?

• 10:56Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, I wasn't asking if you yourself wanted to put on a singlet and grapple.

• 10:59Chris Ryan?

  Was there like a lot of actors who wrestled and wrestlers who acted is what you're asking? No.

• 11:03Andy Greenwald?

  Okay. So, so basically, I've just myth busted.

• 11:06Chris Ryan?

  You sure have.

• 11:07Andy Greenwald?

  You're a letter of recommendation.

• 11:08Chris Ryan?

  Get back to Transformers now.

• 11:09Andy Greenwald?

  Sorry, Adam Ross. Why'd you recognize real? Did you know that Optimus Prime isn't his name, but Prime is his title?

• 11:15Chris Ryan?

  Um, speaking of giant robots in the sky?

• 11:18Andy Greenwald?

  There you go.

• 11:18Chris Ryan?

  Is Galactus a robot?

• 11:20Andy Greenwald?

  No.

• 11:20Chris Ryan?

  No, he is a god.

• 11:22Andy Greenwald?

  I mean, definitionally, maybe. He, he is a, a like a-

• 11:26Chris Ryan?

  World swallower?

• 11:27Andy Greenwald?

  Celestial space being that is absolutely the zenith of 60s Jack Kirby what the fuckness of a villain for the super team is going to be a massive, purple helmeded man god who eats planets. And his arrival is announced by the coming of his herald, the Silver Surfer.

• 11:45Chris Ryan?

  Played by Julia Garner in the new film Fantastic Four: First Steps, which had a trailer drop earlier in the week and already has 200 million views on YouTube.

• 11:52Andy Greenwald?

  How many do we have on YouTube? Tell me after.

• 11:55Chris Ryan?

  Slightly less. Uh, the reason I want to talk about this-

• 12:01Chris Ryan?

  Is I put my hand on the on the

• 12:04Andy Greenwald?

  Trunks. The Infinity Stone.

• 12:06Chris Ryan?

  And I feel a train coming.

• 12:07Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, oh, oh, oh, yeah.

• 12:09Chris Ryan?

  And I don't know whether or not like it's just they've had enough at bats at this point or like there's been some inertia, but like watching the Fantastic Four trailer. I have mixed emotions about it generally, but it's undeniable that it feels like there is a lot of excitement for it and that this is going to be a pretty big movie. I don't know what your relationship is to FF, but what did you think?

• 12:33Andy Greenwald?

  I was very excited of on a just a gut fanboy level about this about this trailer. I think I am on the record as drips and drabs of information have come out as saying like, it just feels like not just a throwback to 60s era Marvel storytelling, or even 10 years ago Marvel MCU storytelling when they were when they were good at this, but a very, very strong return to what Kevin Feige was just so uniquely good at that got this whole thing rolling, which is being able to both intuit and then express the core tenet of a character or of a franchise or of what makes this special and different from other comic book stories.

• 13:13Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 13:13Andy Greenwald?

  And for me, and clearly for him and for the other people at Marvel, it's that one, this is a family and two, that it's at its best with this kind of whiz bang 60s Jetson style utopia and that they weren't going to try to say that yes, while Sokovia was falling from the sky, this was also happening.

• 13:33Chris Ryan?

  Talk about Sokovia a few minutes.

• 13:35Andy Greenwald?

  But so I, I really, really love, love that. Like this is, it was a, it's, it feels weird to be saying, ah, that classic Marvel touch in 2025, but it's been a minute.

• 13:45Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 13:46Andy Greenwald?

  And it feels focused. It feels like it understands the assignment and it has a great cast. And are there little nits to pick? And certainly.

• 13:57Chris Ryan?

  How did you feel about the possible use of AI in the movie poster?

• 14:00Andy Greenwald?

  I just ignored that.

• 14:01Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 14:02Andy Greenwald?

  I don't. There's only so much time in the day. You know, there's only so many things to get upset about, or so they tell me. Is that where, where did you rank Marvel's use of AI in the Fantastic Four poster?

• 14:13Chris Ryan?

  That upset me most this week.

• 14:15Andy Greenwald?

  International aid in America's role in the world. Like, it's just, it's, this is not.

• 14:21Chris Ryan?

  Tweeting at Elon relentlessly, like, what will you do about this incursion?

• 14:25Andy Greenwald?

  Not my country. It's great.

• 14:29Andy Greenwald?

  Redirect your bright boys onto the things that matter most.

• 14:31Chris Ryan?

  Um.

• 14:32Andy Greenwald?

  I, I, I like that. I, and also the way it sort of like wrapped its arms around a lot of different pieces of the Fantastic Four heritage. Like, it's the same conversation, heritage. It's like the same conversation that I tried to have with you about something that I think you feel is deeply stupid, and I respect it, which is that Superman has a super dog.

• 14:49Chris Ryan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 14:49Andy Greenwald?

  And similarly, there's a urban legend, I don't know if it's ever been proved or disproved, that the reason why, when there was a Fantastic Four cartoon in the seventies, that is the way a lot of people, not now older people, learned about the Fantastic Four, where the members of the group were Mr. Fantastic, the Invisible Woman, the Thing, and Herbie the Robot.

• 15:10Chris Ryan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 15:11Andy Greenwald?

  And the urban legend was that, that the network said, "We can't have a boy who's on fire on television," because, I mean, look at us, boys will just set themselves on fire. So they put a robot in it. I, it's this-

• 15:22Chris Ryan?

  Are you saying young men are impressionable?

• 15:24Andy Greenwald?

  I'm just saying I'm happy to be a hashtag girl dad.

• 15:27Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 15:27Andy Greenwald?

  So the fact that, like, they've reclaimed that, like, well, Herbie is part of this, and it's Baxter Building, and it's like a retro New York, it's fun. The, how, how did you feel about, of all the things that I thought the trailer would do, reminding us the Thing is played by Cousin Richie from The Bear was not in my top ten?

• 15:47Chris Ryan?

  I thought that was a decent clove of garlic to throw at us, to quote-

• 15:51Andy Greenwald?

  For spice.

• 15:52Chris Ryan?

  Um, because, obviously, the movie's probably not even done yet, um, in terms of, like, locking all the special effects and everything.

• 16:00Andy Greenwald?

  Right. It's a summer release, right? End of June?

• 16:02Chris Ryan?

  It was an effective teaser. I thought it kind of was, the Thing's banter was a throwback to some of the Weeden stuff.

• 16:09Andy Greenwald?

  Mm-hmm.

• 16:10Chris Ryan?

  You know, like, just that kind of, like, "Hey, we're all hanging out, we're all kind of actually, deep down, like, just like you, we're making dinner and stuff like that." I thought that was- Probably like the best foot forward for it because it offsets the like incredibly sincere stuff between Pedro Pascal and Vanessa Kirby about family and stuff like that, which maybe I'm a little allergic to at this point.

• 16:32Andy Greenwald?

  Allergic, yes. I also, though, I will always have a soft spot for the kind of like contemporary retconning of ideas that Stan Lee and others came up with when they were just smoking grass in the early 60s. Like, there's a guy made of rocks, and this trailer's like, he's always been our rock. I'm like, okay, that's pretty good.

• 16:50Chris Ryan?

  Obviously, like, is the implication then that like this is taking place after they have become the Fantastic Four and like are?

• 16:57Andy Greenwald?

  Yes, that it's not an origin story. Clearly, they filmed flashbacks to their space mission. And that allows Eben Musbackrak to appear actually in the movie. My children were asking, they're like, can he turn into the rock? I'm like, no, no, it's the tragic heart of the character. It's Ben Grimm from the Lower East Side, and yet he, and then they, to the degree to which they tuned out faster than you just did, was remarkable even for them.

• 17:23Chris Ryan?

  What earth is this taking place on?

• 17:25Andy Greenwald?

  I think that what we know about this is that this is a different multiversal earth that will inevitably be crashed into the others as we head towards.

• 17:32Chris Ryan?

  So this is like, just, just so I understand, like, we're still gonna be messing around with like realities, like that's like necessary for like the Secret Wars thing and like.

• 17:41Andy Greenwald?

  Yes, they, there's no indication that they are, that they've diver, they've removed Kang, but they have not diverged from the plan to essentially do the Jonathan Hickman Avengers leading into Secret Wars storyline where all the multiversal.

• 17:54Chris Ryan?

  Which is pretty badass.

• 17:56Andy Greenwald?

  It's awesome. Crash into each other, and that allows them to tell the biggest possible story, but also cross-pollinate with alternate versions of characters from previous movies, TV shows, films, and then come out of this theoretically with the plan for whatever the future, the friggin' 2030s plan for this universe is with, you know, Michael B. Jordan as Black Panther, as I keep throwing out, to be proved right about one thing once, or whatever else may, may come of this. But I think, you know, I think it is a, if you are a fan of this stuff and you are not as cynical as we often are, then I think this is actually a pretty good summer because Superman and Fantastic Four are both optimistic, brightly colored reboots, basically. Like, we're starting from scratch here, and Fantastic Four is going to crash into something else.

• 18:41Chris Ryan?

  Zagging from reality.

• 18:42Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, I was gonna say, say, they didn't really read the room, but maybe we need it more than ever.

• 18:47Chris Ryan?

  I got an email at our Watch Podcast inbox, which you can hit us up at [email protected]. I forgot to mention that earlier when I was talking about all of our projects, all of the verticals that we have. This comes from Angelo Spagnolo, and he says, are we underrating-

• 19:02Andy Greenwald?

  Do you say Spagnolo?

• 19:03Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 19:04Andy Greenwald?

  Any relation-

• 19:04Chris Ryan?

  Not sp- not spelled the same way.

• 19:06Andy Greenwald?

  As Spags, the coach. Okay, good. Because I wouldn't accept a question.

• 19:09Chris Ryan?

  Are we underrating the crossover appeal of the new Captain America? Anecdote, my wife has no interest in Marvel movies, but we go to the theater often, so she's seen the Captain America Brave New World trailer five to six times. She said something I never would have expected, quote, "I'm compelled by a red Hulk. I don't know why." Wow. Anyway, could this movie be a lot bigger than I or anyone expects? In the absence of anything filling the Marvel void, I do wonder whether, like, we've just kind of come all the way around the track.

• 19:44Andy Greenwald?

  I agree with this.

• 19:45Chris Ryan?

  And now, like, people are gonna go see Brave New World, people seem really excited for Fantastic Four, people seem really, like, they're already like, ah, can you see Doom in the trailer?

• 19:53Andy Greenwald?

  People are excited about rooting out secret reds in the US government. I feel like that one is in step with the moment. It's really funny, the red Hulk thing, because I think we touched on this, that like, I think in a different moment, they were planning on that being a secret of this movie.

• 20:11Chris Ryan?

  There's a lot of people out there who are like, I didn't know the Hulk was red, and then you say, it's Harrison Ford, and they're like, you have my attention.

• 20:18Andy Greenwald?

  My seven-year-old had that conversation with me this morning.

• 20:21Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 20:22Andy Greenwald?

  Not the Harrison Ford part, she doesn't know what that is.

• 20:23Chris Ryan?

  Many people in this country are wondering about red Hulk.

• 20:25Andy Greenwald?

  But she's like, Hulks are red now? And I was like, yeah, well, the Hulk, blah, blah, blah. Then she stopped me, and she was like, why is it the Hulk? That's stupid.

• 20:31Chris Ryan?

  Oh, interesting. She wants it to be Hulk.

• 20:33Andy Greenwald?

  Man. Gosh, she just, just, from the mouths of babes, you know? That one's free, Fike.

• 20:38Chris Ryan?

  There's like a younger generation of people who have started calling the West Village West Village. Did you know that?

• 20:44Andy Greenwald?

  They've dropped the "the"?

• 20:45Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, on Instagram.

• 20:46Andy Greenwald?

  But that's like when New Yorkers come here, and they're like, I took 101. And you're like, no, no, it's the 101.

• 20:51Chris Ryan?

  The 101.

• 20:51Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, it's the five. Is it okay to police language still? Can we do that? I will. I don't care.

• 20:57Chris Ryan?

  That's the language you're worried about?

• 20:59Andy Greenwald?

  What do I have to lose? Yeah, that's, that matters. I, I think that there are, there are moments when you or we can like Monday morning quarterback the industry and say like, ah, they, they marketed this thing really well. They, they read the moment. They were prepared with the story that people wanted to see, or they built up to this thing with the, you know, the, the serialized storytelling. And then there are times when it just feels like they, I guess, again, to their credit, lucked into something.

• 21:28Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 21:29Andy Greenwald?

  And the brave new.

• 21:30Chris Ryan?

  It's kind of like the Lakers. It's like, it's like, this is a team that had a title back in 2020 or whatever, like the bubble title was.

• 21:38Andy Greenwald?

  2020.

• 21:38Chris Ryan?

  And kind of like dragged ass around for a couple of seasons and like looked fine, but not that great. And we're pretty good this year, but who knows? And you're like, ah, but like their time has passed. And soon LeBron will retire and AD, who knows if he can carry the team?

• 21:53Andy Greenwald?

  Then what happened?

• 21:53Chris Ryan?

  And then they get fucking Luka Doncic. And this is, that's what Marvel is with the Fantastic Four.

• 21:57Andy Greenwald?

  People coming up to me on the street being like, sir, sir, why did Dalton Connect have to die for this?

• 22:02Chris Ryan?

  They needed, they needed a lot from it.

• 22:04Andy Greenwald?

  No, but what I mean in this case is it's not just a Fantastic Four thing. It's the Brave New World development went on for so long that it went from being like.

• 22:12Chris Ryan?

  A disaster to like really considered.

• 22:14Andy Greenwald?

  No, it went from we can do anything. We can make any, any one Captain America and make a movie and have it make this much money to being like, oh, maybe we can't. We will do a lot of reshoots. We will literally remake the movie multiple times. And then by the time they finish, it does seem to be like, hey, it's February. There's a Red Hulk. Cool. Like that actually is all it takes sometimes. And it was in the end, a smart pivot to do something that they've been afraid of, of doing in the past, which is, it's just a movie, man. It, it, I think they've said that there's no like big.

• 22:45Chris Ryan?

  That you can almost go see this and not, you don't have to know what Loki, what happens on Loki season two.

• 22:50Andy Greenwald?

  No, and frankly, I'm still a little unclear as to what happened in Loki season two.

• 22:55Chris Ryan?

  I want to talk to you a little bit about another piece of Marvel content that came out recently. And that is the Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man on Disney Plus. It's an animated series.

• 23:06Andy Greenwald?

  It's the Hulk. It's your Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man.

• 23:09Chris Ryan?

  Your Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man.

• 23:12Andy Greenwald?

  I can't believe you checked this out.

• 23:13Chris Ryan?

  I had only heard about this show.

• 23:15Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 23:16Chris Ryan?

  Because the kid who voices Spider-Man, when they were like, like, "Did you have any concerns about playing Spider-Man's voice?" And he was like, "I was worried it was gonna be like woke and annoying."

• 23:30Andy Greenwald?

  Uh huh. I saw that he said that.

• 23:32Chris Ryan?

  He's walked that back, whoever that kid is.

• 23:35Andy Greenwald?

  He said he was just concerned it was gonna be woke. He didn't think it was gonna be annoying. Great. Well done.

• 23:43Chris Ryan?

  I don't really like animated shows. I did this because you watched a couple of these, or one of these with your daughter.

• 23:49Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, this is Super Daddington episode, yes.

• 23:51Chris Ryan?

  Really got into it. But then, I'll tell you what happened to me. A couple of the Street Team members, the CR Street Team guys out there, DM'd me, hit me up, threw up the signal, and were just like, "Just so you know, there's Sokovia content in here." Now, I sped through some episodes after the first one, just to see, you know, I wish you could do Ctrl+F Sokovia for any piece of content.

• 24:14Andy Greenwald?

  Mostly, so, now, was your interest in this because you wanted to see how one of the most fundamental geopolitical moments in the MCU was going to be recreated in the Steve Ditko-esque cel-shaded animation style? Or were you wondering how those accords have filtered down to the street?

• 24:31Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, what's the ripple effect on Queens?

• 24:33Andy Greenwald?

  Okay, there it is.

• 24:34Chris Ryan?

  I did not get to that. I know that there, this is taking place yet again in a different timeline, right? So, in this timeline, there is still like, the airport battle from some Civil War takes place later in the series.

• 24:49Andy Greenwald?

  Okay.

• 24:50Chris Ryan?

  But I didn't catch any major Sokovia stuff yet. I've only really watched, like-

• 24:54Andy Greenwald?

  Look at the things you do servicing.

• 24:56Chris Ryan?

  This is a useless piece of podcasting by me, because I was like, there was something I was interested in that I didn't diligently seek out.

• 25:01Andy Greenwald?

  Okay. Do you want to seed the floor? You good?

• 25:06Chris Ryan?

  Tell me about how this brought you closer to your child.

• 25:08Andy Greenwald?

  It genuinely did. Like, this is always gonna bleed into this, but like, it is kind of amazing that my younger daughter is doing things that I never thought would happen as a parent, which is like, "Tell me about the X-Men." I was like, pulled the car over. I was like, "You're gonna be late for school today." I've waited for this my entire-

• 25:26Chris Ryan?

  I'll write a note.

• 25:27Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, they'll understand.

• 25:30Andy Greenwald?

  So, she does like this stuff and is interested in like, the interconnected stuff. And we've talked about before that like, the Spider-verse movies are just catnip for them. They love those movies, both because they're exciting and interconnected, but also they're funny and awesome. So she was prepped as a Spider-Man fan. But the thing about the show, and it's show run by a guy called Jeff Trammell,

• 25:51Andy Greenwald?

  I think it really hits a fantastic sweet spot between hard fandom and just light entertainment. It has a lot of style. I was saying, it is kind of like Ditko-esque in the way that it looks retro, but it's also-

• 26:02Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, it looks like newspaper print.

• 26:04Andy Greenwald?

  But it's fun to me to see the way, yes, but the way that they have sort of picked and chosen the bits and pieces of 60 years plus of Spider-Man mythology to do what they want with it.

• 26:17Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 26:17Andy Greenwald?

  So Peter Parker is a kid, he is in Queens. They've just chosen to do the young, hot Marisa Tomei-style Aunt May, which I know got your attention. In this show, Norman Osborn, who is traditionally a villain, may still be, is now more like the Tony Stark mentor that was from the MCU movies. Our guy Coleman Domingo following up Sing Sing with a vocal performance as Norman Osborn in this, which is fun to see. But also, they've just done little things that, you know, are completely original, little Easter eggs that don't matter as Easter eggs. Like, Peter Parker's best, really only friend in high school is Nico Minoru, who is a character in The Runaways. And historically has no connection to Spider-Man, but makes sense. They're similar age, kinda outcast vibes.

• 27:02Andy Greenwald?

  And it was, I, it was really fun watching the show. This is not moving any large prestige TV needle, it's just very high-quality, all-ages entertainment that drew me in on a dramatic level more than I expected.

• 27:18Chris Ryan?

  What I imagine is that if I had a kid- I would, uh...

• 27:22Andy Greenwald?

  Well, no, let's play this out. You had a, you have a 15-year-old ward who you want to stick at shortstop.

• 27:28Chris Ryan?

  I was trying to decide between wrestling and acting.

• 27:30Andy Greenwald?

  And you're like, "I've got a novel for you that's about both and sexual experiences."

• 27:35Chris Ryan?

  I wonder whether or not your unsatiable appetite for Spider-Man origin stories is because you get to experiencing them the first time through your kids. Do you know what I mean?

• 27:45Andy Greenwald?

  I mean, I definitely am having-

• 27:46Chris Ryan?

  Like, I started this thing up and aside from like, whatever, I was just like, "I can't watch this kid in high school get bit by a spider again." Like, this is like, I've, I've definitely nailed that down.

• 27:55Andy Greenwald?

  This time, the spider was interdimensional and involved a fight with Doctor Strange.

• 27:58Chris Ryan?

  And I enjoyed the Doctor Strange that was like, less British.

• 28:02Andy Greenwald?

  Well, I mean, he's never British.

• 28:03Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, but you know what, like, deep down he is. You know what I mean?

• 28:06Andy Greenwald?

  Cause of the cummerbells?

• 28:06Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, you know, like, you know, he's just like, holding on for dear life.

• 28:10Andy Greenwald?

  Do you feel the way about Doctor Strange that Trump feels about the Panama Canal? Like, it needs to be ours or Greenland is just like, has always been ours?

• 28:19Chris Ryan?

  Doctor Strange is of great military value to us.

• 28:22Andy Greenwald?

  Tariffs on the UK until we reclaim Strange?

• 28:25Chris Ryan?

  I also, I just want to point out, I just think that like, the Doctor Strange is essentially like, a pretty good wizard with an incredible cape.

• 28:35Andy Greenwald?

  Well, that, yeah, okay.

• 28:36Chris Ryan?

  As represented in this show and I think now is also making me rethink all I know about Doctor Strange.

• 28:41Andy Greenwald?

  Or about capes?

• 28:42Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 28:43Andy Greenwald?

  Are you ready? We're on camera now. Are you ready to like, back that up?

• 28:45Chris Ryan?

  If the Eagles win, I'll wear a cape on Monday.

• 28:47Andy Greenwald?

  I love that. Do you have one on?

• 28:49Chris Ryan?

  I will knit one from scratch, yeah.

• 28:52Andy Greenwald?

  I, I think that, I, I find this interesting. I'll try to keep it at a minimum on the podcast. But it is interesting to reengage with MCU with my kids and see what they respond to, what they don't, what has, what I feel has aged well and what hasn't. Like, they're very, they very much enjoyed the Guardians of the Galaxy movies, which on rewatches are super fun. So there is an element of that, but I also think that what the show-

• 29:13Chris Ryan?

  Isn't the third one not fun, though?

• 29:14Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, we haven't done the third one yet. Weirdly, for children, they like animals and maybe don't want to watch them be tortured in CGI glory. Um, I just think that this is of a piece with what we were saying about Fantastic Four and Superman, which is, there is, for me- Me, anyway, and for a bunch of people, there is still mileage in the core conceit of these things when they are not just so obviously, you know, massive money plays for streaming IP dominance with just the weight of everything riding on their shoulders. This is just, yeah, I still like, you know what? I still like my Spider-Man, Young and Troubled. Maybe like a protagonist in an Adam Ross novel.

• 29:53Chris Ryan?

  Sure.

• 29:53Andy Greenwald?

  You know? I just think it's a pretty good show.

• 29:57Chris Ryan?

  The animated stuff has been good. You didn't like X-Men 97 that much.

• 30:01Andy Greenwald?

  I liked it, but I am not the audience because that, not my X-Men. Truly, though, like, I didn't watch that cartoon.

• 30:08Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 30:09Andy Greenwald?

  But the fact that it's sort of celebratory in that mode seems great to me. I'm happy. I'm happy for people.

• 30:16Chris Ryan?

  You know, we're talking about Spider-Man, we're talking about these legacy characters being reintroduced. I wanted to throw another news item at you, which has some Marvel connective tissue.

• 30:24Andy Greenwald?

  Okay, I'm ready for news.

• 30:26Chris Ryan?

  And this was from a Variety story earlier in the week that Buffy the Vampire Slayer is nearing a pilot order at Hulu. This would be a reboot that Sarah Michelle Gellar would be coming back for. And most noticeably, or notably, is that Chloe Zhao, director of Nomadland.

• 30:46Andy Greenwald?

  Yes.

• 30:47Chris Ryan?

  But also The Eternals.

• 30:48Andy Greenwald?

  That's how I know her.

• 30:49Chris Ryan?

  Would be attached to direct at least the pilot and assume, I assume, play some role in.

• 30:54Andy Greenwald?

  It's weird, that didn't come up when we were in Norway with her.

• 30:56Chris Ryan?

  No.

• 30:56Andy Greenwald?

  Last year.

• 30:57Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 30:57Andy Greenwald?

  Somehow.

• 30:57Chris Ryan?

  She didn't mention it to us.

• 30:58Andy Greenwald?

  She kept it, kept it quiet.

• 30:59Chris Ryan?

  She was just like, Andy, I know you really appreciated the football sequence in Eternals.

• 31:04Andy Greenwald?

  No, I know you appreciated Brian Tyree Henry's performance.

• 31:08Chris Ryan?

  This is, I love Buffy.

• 31:10Andy Greenwald?

  Are you a Buffy guy?

• 31:11Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 31:11Andy Greenwald?

  This is like.

• 31:12Chris Ryan?

  Buffy's incredible television.

• 31:13Andy Greenwald?

  You and Battlestar, like, you have these secret, kind of like, Ringer verse Aje's passions.

• 31:18Chris Ryan?

  It's more stuff that, like, Battlestar, I legit think is one of the best shows of. The last 20 years.

• 31:23Andy Greenwald?

  Mm hmm.

• 31:24Chris Ryan?

  Buffy is probably also that, um, obviously is a different kind of television making than for the kind we talk about now in terms of it's it was a long running, you know, like a WB show.

• 31:36Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 31:37Chris Ryan?

  Joss Whedon is not a part of this, uh, so if that is the number one reason why you watched Buffy is the banter and the repartee and everything, I don't know what this is gonna be. Chloe Zhao's participation in this is very interesting to me and kind of like makes me 10 times more curious as to like how you would want to interrogate this character or whether or not it's a new generation of vampire slayers that SMG is kind of over like, you know, shepherding through or.

• 32:05Andy Greenwald?

  And we should say Sisters Nora and, uh, Lila Zuckerman, who show ran, uh, Poker Face, wrote the script and they're veteran TV writers.

• 32:12Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 32:14Andy Greenwald?

  I mean, I, I think it's interesting.

• 32:15Chris Ryan?

  Beyond the Buffy part.

• 32:17Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 32:17Chris Ryan?

  Uh, it is, every six weeks, we basically do a kind of three minute bit on the pod about a show from our lives that is, uh, obviously the option is running up and they're like, let's, let's, let's.

• 32:31Andy Greenwald?

  On our lives?

• 32:32Chris Ryan?

  No, but like Friday Night Lights.

• 32:34Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, sure.

• 32:34Chris Ryan?

  The reboot, you know, uh, like now Buffy.

• 32:38Andy Greenwald?

  Mm hmm.

• 32:38Chris Ryan?

  I think that we're seeing like a lot of like when television worked, you know, like, let's start that again.

• 32:43Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 32:44Chris Ryan?

  You know, obviously Suits LA is about to start. What do you think of it as like more of an industry story rather than like whether or not you're excited about Buffy coming back?

• 32:51Andy Greenwald?

  I think it's incredibly hard to, to capture lightning in a bottle once, let alone twice. And I think that we've seen with a lot of these reboots, it can be very, very tricky. You know, there were a bunch, a bunch of projects were announced with similarly big fanfare and either never came to fruition or just kind of appeared and disappeared and trickled away. Um, weirdly, we didn't cover the ignominious end of the Frasier reboot, which I believe is not moving forward, but like that is a, that is an example that I think is relevant only because, uh, not just that it's a reboot with a same actor playing an older version of the character, but a reminder that, um, a new version of a show isn't just competing with every other show that's on the air, it's competing with the original version.

• 33:35Chris Ryan?

  Sure.

• 33:36Andy Greenwald?

  So the fact that Frasier remains popular doesn't mean people wanted to see slightly older Frasier. Similarly, people are still finding Buffy.

• 33:44Chris Ryan?

  That's the problem with it.

• 33:45Andy Greenwald?

  That was the major problem.

• 33:46Chris Ryan?

  What young Frasier.

• 33:47Andy Greenwald?

  I do think Helsey Grammer would agree with our take on Dr. Strange.

• 33:50Chris Ryan?

  Why not do young Frasier?

• 33:52Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, like Young Sheldon?

• 33:53Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 33:53Andy Greenwald?

  Like, he's just kind of an obnoxious know-it-all. Like, yeah, this is a great idea.

• 33:58Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 33:59Andy Greenwald?

  And like, but like, he would have to be younger than he was on Cheers.

• 34:03Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 34:04Andy Greenwald?

  So like him in graduate school.

• 34:05Chris Ryan?

  Full head of hair, you know?

• 34:06Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah. I'm having trouble because I picturing the show you're pitching versus what we know about young Kelsey Grammer's behavior, which I think was not very Frasier-esque. So I, I think you and I would probably be more interested in young Kelsey. As a television show, like an 80s period piece.

• 34:26Andy Greenwald?

  No, but do you know what I mean? Like Buffy is still out there for people to watch and discover.

• 34:30Chris Ryan?

  Yes, I think that-

• 34:31Andy Greenwald?

  So what is the new way into it, or are we just trying to do more of the same? And then again, Chloe, this is all unknowable because the Chloe Jau involvement suggests like, oh, is this a, is this an Oscar-winning pedigree? Or is the truth more likely, as disclosed in some of the press releases, this was her favorite show, growing up. And she might not want to show what it would be like if Buffy was actually, could only defecate in a bucket.

• 34:56Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 34:56Andy Greenwald?

  She might just want to make-

• 34:58Chris Ryan?

  Buffy worked at an Amazon warehouse.

• 34:59Andy Greenwald?

  She might just, now, now I'm listening, but she just might want to bring it all back.

• 35:04Chris Ryan?

  Sure.

• 35:04Andy Greenwald?

  Work with her friends.

• 35:05Chris Ryan?

  Good for her.

• 35:06Andy Greenwald?

  We don't know. But do you feel Buffy is in the same category as FNL in terms of like-

• 35:10Chris Ryan?

  As you were just talking-

• 35:11Andy Greenwald?

  This is holy.

• 35:11Chris Ryan?

  I think it's a pretty, it's a pretty important show to a lot of people. I love, I love it. I, I can't, I don't nearly have an encyclopedic knowledge of it, but like, I remember it being on a lot in my house and just really, I've, I've always enjoyed it. There are very few shows that have successfully come back in any way. I actually think Veronica Mars was an example of a show that did it right. They've done, they did this sort of crowdfunded movie that was very much fan service. But when they actually brought back like a kind of grizzled, fucked up Veronica that had to do like an LA noir story, I was like, actually, like, this is pretty cool.

• 35:47Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 35:48Chris Ryan?

  But for the most part, when people clamor for, you know, that, that extra season, that bring it all back. I just think you see too many of the seams where you're like, when you watch Party Down, and you're just like, man.

• 36:01Andy Greenwald?

  That's a great example.

• 36:02Chris Ryan?

  I think Lizzie Kaplan was like, super important to the show. And also, the show was about these people at this age and this point in their life.

• 36:10Andy Greenwald?

  It's very different to see when people who are on the cusp of maybe almost losing their shot versus people well into their 40s and 50s, still doing a podcast, for example.

• 36:20Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 36:20Andy Greenwald?

  And just, I'm sorry.

• 36:21Chris Ryan?

  But we never stopped. That's the thing.

• 36:23Andy Greenwald?

  That's key. I think the other example of that would be Justified.

• 36:27Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 36:27Andy Greenwald?

  Right? Which is, we praise to high heaven, everything about the conception of the reboot. Like, you could just take another Elmore Leonard novel, and you can update it to the present moment, and have it, you know, it's never been like, a rip from the headline show, but like, what would it mean for Rayland to be older, and in a different city, and in a different place in time? And we watched it, and we were like, it wasn't as good as Justified. It was all well-intentioned, right?

• 36:50Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, it just didn't have, um, I don't think it just, it just didn't have that, like, frisson that Justified had. And I think Justified got a, an ascending to actors, like, they caught all of them, Goggins, like, at a perfect time, and had the perfect sort of field of play for them to like, show their, show their wares on. Uh, it's a very mixed metaphor.

• 37:13Andy Greenwald?

  How's your Natalie Z stock?

• 37:14Chris Ryan?

  I'm still holding.

• 37:15Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, you gotta hold.

• 37:16Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 37:17Andy Greenwald?

  That's a long play. I agree.

• 37:18Chris Ryan?

  Shhh. That's all I have, as far as non-Pit-related content. Are you watching anything else? Is there anything else that we're not talking about? I'm watching Rogue Heroes. Shorzy's coming back soon.

• 37:29Andy Greenwald?

  I thought it was back.

• 37:30Chris Ryan?

  It's back in Canada.

• 37:32Andy Greenwald?

  Oh.

• 37:32Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. Trudeau's holding it back from us.

• 37:35Andy Greenwald?

  I was gonna say, is that part of, has that been affected? By recent political maneuverings?

• 37:39Chris Ryan?

  I don't know. Um.

• 37:40Andy Greenwald?

  Release the cut.

• 37:41Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, Paradise I'm watching.

• 37:44Andy Greenwald?

  I mean, I, I could tell you that I'm watching other television shows, but I would be lying. I'm just watching, uh, Philadelphia Eagles social media content.

• 37:51Chris Ryan?

  I feel like we need to get through Sunday before we can, we can do a full accounting of, of what you should be spending your time doing.

• 37:56Andy Greenwald?

  It's worth noting that if the Eagles win, my definition of catching up on Paradise may be different.

• 38:02Chris Ryan?

  Have you actually considered what will happen to you if they win?

• 38:06Andy Greenwald?

  I think it will, like, do I think I will actually leave my body?

• 38:09Chris Ryan?

  Like you said, you were like, the 17 Super Bowl exists as a kind of dream for you. Like, have you thought, like, it was like, you were like, I almost didn't feel like you participated in that season.

• 38:19Andy Greenwald?

  I do feel that way.

• 38:21Chris Ryan?

  This season, you have actively participated in it.

• 38:23Andy Greenwald?

  I've been dangerously participating for the last few seasons. I don't know. I mean, do you? I mean, I don't.

• 38:30Chris Ryan?

  God, I can't believe we're talking about this again.

• 38:32Andy Greenwald?

  I don't know. I will, I, I think that, I feel confident in this team. And I actually think they're going to win. You know, and I was watching a press conference with President Harris the other day, and it made me feel good about my optimism. You know, and my rock solid belief in things that I support.

• 38:49Andy Greenwald?

  I know, I don't know what'll happen. It always feels, I mean, this is a terrible thing to say. Maybe most people are like this. This isn't like a Philadelphia thing, but like, it feels more familiar and more expected to lose. So I would like to win very much.

• 39:02Chris Ryan?

  I think there's something about being out here that just, it makes it like, if we win or we lose, nobody's gonna care about us. You know, like, I do, yeah, I wish we were in Philadelphia. Like, if we show up at a bar on Sunday at 8:00 PM and we're just like, let's get fucking celebration drinks going.

• 39:18Andy Greenwald?

  8:00 PM?

• 39:20Chris Ryan?

  When's the game gonna be over?

• 39:21Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, no, I agree. I didn't know if you meant 8:00 AM or 8:00 PM. I feel like it would be different.

• 39:24Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, if we show up at like 8:00 PM at a bar and we're like, let's go, and everybody's gonna be like, it's Sunday.

• 39:28Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, we gotta drive. It might be a little rainy tomorrow.

• 39:30Chris Ryan?

  Like, we have like a bruschetta you guys can have, you know, like?

• 39:32Andy Greenwald?

  I mean, the example that I use when I tell people about what it's like to live here is, and we've talked about this probably on the pod. But a couple of years ago, you very kindly got tickets to see Phillies Dodgers game on my birthday or around my birthday. And it was you, me, Fantasy and Zach Baron.

• 39:47Chris Ryan?

  Oh, yeah, I remember Sean was very nice about that.

• 39:49Andy Greenwald?

  Sean was so, Sean is always a great person to watch Philadelphia sports with, as a New Yorker. And the Phillies were cruising to a win, and we were enjoying a nice $35 beer. Yeah, but really, we were paying it forward for the Dodgers, you know, just helping them build their nest egg.

• 40:04Chris Ryan?

  Anything I could do for that deferred payment.

• 40:06Andy Greenwald?

  And we were winning, and I was like, what a nice birthday present this was, and it felt great. You know, it's a beautiful place to watch a ballgame, 70-degree weather, like, sitting in a warm bathtub. Water and then in the ninth inning, I believe the Dodgers hit back to back to back home runs.

• 40:20Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 40:21Andy Greenwald?

  Rip rip the our heart from our chest like the villain in Last of the Mohicans.

• 40:24Chris Ryan?

  The early season game.

• 40:26Andy Greenwald?

  No, I didn't mean that, but it was like.

• 40:27Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, we we lost. Yeah.

• 40:28Andy Greenwald?

  My point was there was something so narcotizing about the California air.

• 40:32Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 40:32Andy Greenwald?

  I was like, this is fine. It literally was. I was the this is fine dog. And I do think that that does make a difference here.

• 40:38Chris Ryan?

  I remember when the Eagles won the Super Bowl last time.

• 40:43Andy Greenwald?

  What a thing to say, by the way.

• 40:45Chris Ryan?

  I went home and watched the Cloverfield movie that was dropping on Netflix that night.

• 40:49Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, yeah, you had to work.

• 40:50Chris Ryan?

  I didn't have to. I love content. I love I love storytelling.

• 40:54Andy Greenwald?

  Do you? So do you have a plan like do you are? Is your Sunday tightly scripted after the the final whistle? Do you have things that you know you're gonna have to get into?

• 41:05Chris Ryan?

  Oh, like do I then go home and watch Severance kind of thing?

• 41:08Andy Greenwald?

  Because it's earlier here than it is in the East Coast.

• 41:10Chris Ryan?

  Um, I think if they win, I'll just spend the night celebrating and watching the celebrations.

• 41:16Andy Greenwald?

  At my house?

• 41:17Chris Ryan?

  Sure.

• 41:18Andy Greenwald?

  Great.

• 41:18Chris Ryan?

  Wherever.

• 41:19Andy Greenwald?

  I heard the wherever.

• 41:20Chris Ryan?

  If they lose, I think it'll be like a like handshake and then I go home and then it's just like I'll watch Rock Heroes or something.

• 41:29Andy Greenwald?

  Yes. Okay. It'll be a harder road for me because my children are actively rooting for the Chiefs because of Taylor Swift.

• 41:35Chris Ryan?

  I don't want to talk about that. I don't know if I can be polite about that.

• 41:37Andy Greenwald?

  I don't think you should be. I think I think life's been pretty good for them, you know, and I feel like we have to.

• 41:43Andy Greenwald?

  They have to have some of the legacy of where we're from.

• 41:47Chris Ryan?

  Let's talk about the pit.

• 41:49Andy Greenwald?

  Best.

• 41:49Chris Ryan?

  A hard show to maybe do weekly recaps of, I have realized, but like still nonetheless. Had a lot to recommend and a lot to love about this episode. I am obviously I thought four was among the best episodes of the year.

• 42:03Andy Greenwald?

  Incredible.

• 42:04Chris Ryan?

  Um, and we talked about five a bit, right?

• 42:07Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, I mean, I don't think we did.

• 42:08Chris Ryan?

  We did four and then we like mentioned five, I think.

• 42:10Andy Greenwald?

  I I think the challenge of that was the fact that we both thought four was so outrageously exceptional, just so phenomenal. Um, and five was not. Five was a fine episode of a show that we are growing to love. And in comparison to four, it was fairly pedestrian.

• 42:27Chris Ryan?

  Sure.

• 42:28Andy Greenwald?

  Right? Um, but.

• 42:31Chris Ryan?

  So we're talking about six.

• 42:32Andy Greenwald?

  In a way, six, I mean, it's very old fashioned to have this kind of relationship to a TV show, not just that it's weekly, but that like that there are highs and there are, the highs can be very high and the lows aren't too low. I thought that this episode, broadly speaking, was, it wasn't TV at its best, the way Moments of Four were, but it was absolutely the pit at its best, in that it had scenes that were excruciating, relatable, human, present, no wily at its best, specifically the scene when he finally tells, not that he had been avoiding it, but he was-

• 43:07Chris Ryan?

  The teenage boy's mom.

• 43:07Andy Greenwald?

  The parents of the teenage, of the teenage boy who had the accidental drug overdose, that they've done everything now-

• 43:14Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 43:15Andy Greenwald?

  To determine the fact that he is brain dead and they need to begin to process this. That scene, like the previous scene of letting go and saying goodbye, was just beautifully understated, incredibly performed, devastating and gripping to watch. And then, this is also an episode that ends with, "Hey, be careful. Are you fighting?" credits. Like, you know what I mean? Like, this is TV.

• 43:36Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 43:37Andy Greenwald?

  The highest of highs out of nowhere, and then they're like, "Okay, we gotta keep these trains moving." I find that, that symbiosis increasingly, not just pleasant in the sense that it's like the way we used to watch things, but I'm very, very emotionally attached to it now. I'm loving the experience of watching the show week to week with its, with its, it's not a roller coaster, but with its ups and downs.

• 44:01Chris Ryan?

  Well, it's also very cool, because I think in a traditional medical procedural, you would have, each patient gets introduced at the beginning of the episode and then they're-

• 44:10Andy Greenwald?

  Wrapped up.

• 44:11Chris Ryan?

  It gets concluded at the end of the episode, whereas the teenage girl who's trying to terminate her pregnancy, like, she is, she's been there for like an episode and a half. Obviously, the teenage boy who overdosed on fentanyl has been there from the beginning of the season, pretty much, I think. And then you're starting to see certain plotlines come to fruition a little bit like this sort of presence of Javadi's mom, who's a big wig at the hospital. You're learning a little bit more about the doctors. I really, like, my favorite part of this episode was Santos dropping a scalpel into Garcia's foot.

• 44:45Andy Greenwald?

  I wanted to talk about that, cuz.

• 44:46Chris Ryan?

  I didn't really ever think about that being something that could happen at a hospital, but I guess like.

• 44:50Andy Greenwald?

  Really? With all the sharps around?

• 44:52Chris Ryan?

  Well, if I was a doctor, I would do that to people all the time, cuz I'm a little bit of a butter fingers, which is probably why I'm not a doctor among.

• 45:00Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, I mean.

• 45:01Chris Ryan?

  Lack of understanding of chemistry and biology.

• 45:04Andy Greenwald?

  Part of the show does make me so glad that like, human beings are so varied and diverse in their interests and experience. And that we self-select in ways that allow us to have most jobs covered, you know? Certainly not in terms of international aid anymore, but other than that, we have it pretty much on lockdown. Like, even the least likely character, I'm blanking on her name, Javadi's daughter.

• 45:28Chris Ryan?

  Javadi, what's, like, Nadia, I think is her name.

• 45:30Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, that's, oh, yes.

• 45:31Chris Ryan?

  Javadi's her last name, yes.

• 45:34Andy Greenwald?

  Javadi Junior, that despite, you know, her own experiences and she faints earlier and she's under a lot of pressure. She's like, oh, could I please have a chance to correct this hip displacement? Okay. Like, there are times in all of our lives when we are asked to do things when a sense of self-knowledge can be respectful to everyone. Like, no, I would not like to do that. But there are people who are like, sick, that's cool.

• 45:58Chris Ryan?

  I mean, I was wondering also, like, I know why we have anesthesia, you know, cuz it's because pain-wise, we shouldn't be awake for certain things. But I think it would also be like, you don't wanna know what goes on behind the scenes here with all the chaos and stuff like that. You should be knocked out for that.

• 46:15Andy Greenwald?

  You shouldn't be observing it. Now, I thought about that too in this episode, that like, when hypothetically, maybe it happens to all of us, you know, at one time or another. When we are brought in. I'll use eye statements when I am inevitably brought in because you've dropped six knives on me in our Super Bowl celebration on Sunday. And you know, you're sort of like at the mercy of everyone and your eyes are darting around like, I'd like to think that the adrenaline and endorphins and everything are so crazy, you won't really remember.

• 46:43Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, Garcia operating through a scalpel to the foot is.

• 46:47Andy Greenwald?

  I will also say, and I know drugs have changed and medicine has changed to a degree that I haven't re-watched ER recently to know, but the most said words on this show are in order propofol, ketamine and fentanyl.

• 47:01Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 47:03Andy Greenwald?

  They seem, because you know, you read like, remember when there was like the, like the Sacklers and Oxycontin, there was a whole move of like, we have to curb the automatic prescription of these painkillers.

• 47:13Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, I think they're trying to keep it like where it's like, you're not doing it like outside of the hospital.

• 47:17Andy Greenwald?

  But they're real quick to be like, hey, what are you in for sore throat, morphine drip?

• 47:21Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 47:21Andy Greenwald?

  You know what I mean? Like, I get it. It seems pretty smart considering the chaos that's going on. But then you also have moments, like in this episode, when there's the guy who, oh, no, it's the, it's the kids who crashed the ambulance.

• 47:33Chris Ryan?

  The frat boys.

• 47:35Andy Greenwald?

  I did not expect this, Zach, that they're just like, I just, I just wanted him to be happy and be liked.

• 47:40Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, he's like outsider.

• 47:41Andy Greenwald?

  No, I'm going to jail. Kind of you should. I know that we're, everyone deserves good medical treatment, but like, maybe, maybe that's okay. Anyway, there's the.

• 47:52Chris Ryan?

  You can have both.

• 47:53Andy Greenwald?

  That's one, that's the kid, the driver is the one whose collarbone, right, has collapsed into his, his like trachea.

• 47:59Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 48:00Andy Greenwald?

  And so Dr. Hadi, whose name I forget.

• 48:02Chris Ryan?

  Dr. Langdon.

• 48:03Andy Greenwald?

  Thank you. I like mine better. Grabs the bone with forceps and pulls it up. And he says.

• 48:10Chris Ryan?

  My wife did not like that.

• 48:11Andy Greenwald?

  This part is seared into my mind. This is going to hurt. You know what I mean?

• 48:17Andy Greenwald?

  In that moment, the kid's like-

• 48:17Chris Ryan?

  I think he says that this is gonna burn a little bit.

• 48:19Andy Greenwald?

  No, no, Chris, I rewatched.

• 48:21Chris Ryan?

  Oh, you did?

• 48:22Andy Greenwald?

  No, I didn't. I'm not, I'm chicken. I didn't rewatch. But I was dialed in at that moment. There was no second screening. He's like, "We're going to put some anesthetic. That will burn a little bit."

• 48:31Chris Ryan?

  Oh, okay.

• 48:32Andy Greenwald?

  But the physically wrenching of your chest bone out of your breathing hole is gonna hurt. And the kid just nods. Do you think in that moment, hypothetical, you're flat on your back, you've classic joyride with frat bros? I mean, that was your experience.

• 48:48Chris Ryan?

  My collarbone is blocking my trachea.

• 48:50Andy Greenwald?

  And a doctor is looming over you with forceps and he's like, "Hey, quick heads up, just wanna, you know, communicate, it's important. This is going to hurt."

• 48:57Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 48:58Andy Greenwald?

  What is your reaction, do you think, in the moment?

• 49:02Chris Ryan?

  Get more ketamine, please. Like, just, just full-

• 49:05Andy Greenwald?

  Just Michael Jackson me. Just get the propofol drip. I think that I trust, much like the mother of the kid with the twisted scrotum, I think I do have that relationship with-

• 49:16Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, I have to admit-

• 49:17Andy Greenwald?

  Medical professionals. Where I'm like, "Oh, you're here? Thank you." I would nod. I would nod.

• 49:21Chris Ryan?

  My wife was like, I blanched at that. Like, I was super into the collarbone thing. And when the scrotum torsion happened, I was like, "Oh, this is a lot."

• 49:34Andy Greenwald?

  And she was fine with it?

• 49:36Chris Ryan?

  She was just like, "You're so, you guys and your precious balls, basically." Like, you know, like, "This is what you can't take." And I was like, "Yeah, but like..."

• 49:44Andy Greenwald?

  Is that so wrong?

• 49:45Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, I mean, it's pretty traumatizing, man.

• 49:47Andy Greenwald?

  Why can't everybody have sensitive parts?

• 49:49Chris Ryan?

  I was, when I, like, I just think it's, I just think it's a thing that I don't wanna contemplate.

• 49:56Andy Greenwald?

  Okay, so maybe you've answered, maybe you've answered the question that I was gonna ask you, which is,

• 50:03Andy Greenwald?

  gun to your head or scalpel to your foot?

• 50:05Chris Ryan?

  Well, also, doesn't Collins go the wrong way the first time?

• 50:09Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, so I'm saying, okay, let's assume that Collins goes the right way. Scalpel to your foot, would you rather have Dr. Langdon with forceps lifting your collarbone? Or would you rather have Dr. Collins with, let's be honest, a little bit of a smirk on her face, detuning the piano?

• 50:26Chris Ryan?

  I definitely, 100 times out of 100, want my collarbone, cuz that's also like a dope story.

• 50:31Andy Greenwald?

  You don't think that's a good story?

• 50:32Chris Ryan?

  You never pay for a drink again if you have that story. If you're like, "My ball got wrapped around like the wrong part of the tree bark," like, that's fucking terrible, dude.

• 50:43Chris Ryan?

  But-

• 50:45Andy Greenwald?

  What would the main character of Adam Ross's play choose?

• 50:50Chris Ryan?

  What would Optimus Prime have wanted?

• 50:52Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, he'd do anything for his people. He doesn't care. He's their leader, but like.

• 50:57Chris Ryan?

  I'm sure Kai is thrilled.

• 50:58Andy Greenwald?

  Would you rather, Kai made a terrible mistake a moment ago. Let's just let everyone know. She texted us both in real time and was like, the brake, the emergency brakes are off.

• 51:06Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, you guys don't have, there's no, no studio conflict.

• 51:09Andy Greenwald?

  Coming in here. Um, okay. Do you, is your answer the same collarbone or ball? If you know you're going to prison as soon as the collarbone is lifted?

• 51:18Chris Ryan?

  Absolutely.

• 51:19Andy Greenwald?

  You would still rather that?

• 51:20Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 51:21Andy Greenwald?

  Even though.

• 51:22Chris Ryan?

  Wait, only, wait, if I have, if I have ball.

• 51:25Andy Greenwald?

  Okay, let's take away.

• 51:26Chris Ryan?

  A ball injury, no prison. Collarbone injury, prison.

• 51:30Andy Greenwald?

  Yes.

• 51:32Andy Greenwald?

  And ball injury resolves pretty quickly. It's like a couple.

• 51:35Chris Ryan?

  I feel like I honestly, like, I just have read and watched so much prison stuff recently that I just, not recently, but over the course of my life that I just don't want to go.

• 51:43Andy Greenwald?

  Which like, are you talking like Rachel Kushner's The Mars Room? Are you talking about prison movies on Cinemax?

• 51:49Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, you know, that, all of it. Yeah. Nobody is like, prison's cool.

• 51:53Andy Greenwald?

  The one, you know, I'm really interested though, in your kind of Department of Governmental Efficiency read on Dr. Collins in the ball scene because she is a little bit like, you got two of them, big boy. You know what I mean?

• 52:07Chris Ryan?

  Well, I think given everything that they're experiencing at the ER that day, you know, this kid, as long as he doesn't have some sort of major problem is like, pretty low. I will say that like, it's interesting to see like, I wonder sometimes whether or not, like, you keep seeing in the waiting room and there's like our, our boy who's just been sitting out there with his chest pains for like hours, right?

• 52:31Chris Ryan?

  Your boy. But then they get like, like randos get in, you know what I mean? Like.

• 52:37Andy Greenwald?

  Well, that's why they're out there doing triage. They're like.

• 52:39Chris Ryan?

  I guess so.

• 52:39Andy Greenwald?

  They're like, this guy seems like a dickhead, um, so he can sit with it. This prince, this young prince.

• 52:46Chris Ryan?

  Who got his ball wrapped around.

• 52:47Andy Greenwald?

  Has just played tetherball in the wrong direction. And he needs to be addressed. I appreciated that system. It does seem to be-

• 52:54Chris Ryan?

  I wonder if there's gonna be some more interrogation of what happened there.

• 52:58Andy Greenwald?

  With the ball?

• 52:59Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, with him. Like, how did that happen?

• 53:01Andy Greenwald?

  Well, this is actually a weird way of saying something that I, this is not a concern troll. This is something I wonder in terms of the ratio of storytelling. Like, when the guy came in, having fallen off the ladder, and seemed relatively fine and they avoided a problem, when they were wheeling him back from the CAT scan, I was like, he's definitely gonna go tacky cardic-

• 53:24Chris Ryan?

  Tacky cardic, yeah.

• 53:24Andy Greenwald?

  Galacticus here, you know? How many ones and dones can we actually have to keep us on our toes?

• 53:32Chris Ryan?

  The show's dedication to realism gets tested when it becomes, you know, when it's like-

• 53:36Andy Greenwald?

  When everything is-

• 53:37Chris Ryan?

  15 episodes and you gotta have some cool stuff happen.

• 53:40Andy Greenwald?

  Last thing here, that same guy, the guy who fell off the ladder, got a lot of good jokes about pay someone to do the home reno, completely agree. When the wife and daughter come, and the daughter's like, "I would like to see my father", and the mother's like, "He'll be fine. The doctors have it."

• 53:56Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 53:56Andy Greenwald?

  Whose side are you on there? Who you got?

• 53:58Chris Ryan?

  Uh... I am on, wait, if I'm the doctor-

• 54:03Andy Greenwald?

  No, no. Like, do you feel like, are you mom or daughter in that case? Do you feel like you'd like to see your loved one regardless? Or do you feel like you're more team mom being like-

• 54:14Chris Ryan?

  Oh, I'd like to, I'd like to see them.

• 54:15Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, that is my, that was my nightmare.

• 54:18Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 54:18Andy Greenwald?

  That was my nightmare. Actually, no, my number one nightmare is my daughters will be like, "That's fine."

• 54:21Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 54:22Andy Greenwald?

  "He'll be okay. He never should have been on a ladder."

• 54:24Chris Ryan?

  Um, we can wrap it up there?

• 54:25Andy Greenwald?

  We could. Are we sure we should?

• 54:27Chris Ryan?

  I mean, we can just keep talking about the Super Bowl until it happens, if you want to. I will say that we'll be back on Monday.

• 54:34Andy Greenwald?

  One way or another.

• 54:35Chris Ryan?

  And I'm sure we'll have some thoughts on the game, but we'll also have some thoughts on Severance, and maybe another show, Paradise, is possible.

• 54:41Andy Greenwald?

  I think we gotta catch up on Paradise.

• 54:43Chris Ryan?

  I know you really wanna do ride along.

• 54:44Andy Greenwald?

  I feel like it's interesting to me, and I like the half hour format very much. Let me just say. Also, generally, Chris, there are a number of movie trailers and things and-

• 54:56Chris Ryan?

  Usually come out during the Super Bowl. We can weigh in on Kendrick Lamar's halftime performance. Thank you to Kaia. Thank you to Chris. We'll be back on Monday.

• 55:03Andy Greenwald?

  Go Birds.

• 55:04Chris Ryan?

  Go Birds.