ROLLUP: Uniswap Front-End | Elizabeth Warren Shadowy Super Coders | COVID-19 Crypto | FTX & Binance

4th Week of July 2021 ------ BANKLESS SPONSOR TOOLS: 💰 GEMINI | FIAT & CRYPTO EXCHANGE https://bankless.cc/go-gemini 🔀 BALANCER | EXCHANGE & POOL ASSETS https://bankless.cc/balancer 👻 AAVE | LEND & BORROW ASSETS https://bankless.cc/aave 🦄 UNISWAP | DECENTRALIZED FUNDING http://bankless.cc/unigrants ------ 📣 SMARTCON | Register for Smart Contract Summit 2021! https://bankless.cc/SmartCon ------ Topics Covered 0:00 Intro 5:36 EIP 1559 and other PSAs 10:55 MARKETS 11:05 BTC Price Shorts: https://twitter.com/woonomic/status/1419621135373701123?s=20 14:02 ETH Price 14:42 BTC/ETH Ratio 15:34 DeFi Action 17:33 The BED Index https://www.indexcoop.com/bed Pancake: https://twitter.com/xofee3/status/1419631884846387200?s=21 23:23 Axie Hasn’t Stopped https://www.coingecko.com/en/coins/axie-infinity 25:21 Optimism Revenue https://twitter.com/tokenterminal/status/1420053733052932097?s=21 26:06 Crypto Fees https://cryptofees.info/ 27:00 1 in 10 Invested https://www.marketwatch.com/story/more-than-1-in-10-americans-invested-in-crypto-this-year-heres-how-they-differ-from-stock-market-investors-11626980261 29:00 RELEASES 30:55 Ultra Sound Summer https://twitter.com/BanklessHQ/status/1418660235393130502?s=20 34:00 Polygon $100M Gaming Fund https://twitter.com/_PolygonStudios/status/1417200733703720991 36:15 Aave Arc https://twitter.com/HsakaTrades/status/1418276172396306432?s=20 38:45 Fractional NFTs https://twitter.com/fractional_art/status/1419696688302854146?s=20 41:22 Binance & Polygon https://twitter.com/MihailoBjelic/status/1420328228795846658 42:55 Etherscan ‘Blockscan’ Upgrade https://twitter.com/etherscan/status/1419985650632122369 44:45 Rabby Wallet https://medium.com/@rabby_io/rabby-release-announcement-564406988e2b 47:00 Lyra DAO https://blog.lyra.finance/lyra-dao-raises-3-3m/ 49:27 Fireblocks $310M https://cointelegraph.com/news/blockchain-unicorn-fireblocks-raises-310m 50:33 Crypto Jobs https://pallet.xyz/list/bankless/jobs 52:10 NEWS 52:20 PayPal Super App https://cointelegraph.com/news/paypal-s-crypto-super-app-set-to-roll-out-soon 56:10 Amazon Hiring https://www.amazon.jobs/en/jobs/1644513/digital-currency-and-blockchain-product-lead 57:10 Jack ETH Troll https://twitter.com/jack/status/1418344349289566212?s=21 Community: https://twitter.com/coingecko/status/1418406317903863809?s=20 1:00:35 Uniswap Front End https://uniswap.org/blog/token-access-app/ 2019: https://newsletter.banklesshq.com/p/unstoppable-liquidity-market-monday-8d6 1:08:14 Reddit on Arbitrum https://twitter.com/arbitrum/status/1418260889698983936?s=20 1:11:50 Media’s Behind https://twitter.com/wongisrite/status/1419790042537496581?s=20 1:13:40 BitGo & Index Coop https://blockworks.co/bitgo-and-index-coop-partner-to-build-blue-chip-experience-for-defi-investment/ 1:15:05 Shopify NFTs https://www.coindesk.com/shopify-to-allow-merchants-to-sell-nfts-directly-through-their-stores 1:22:25 Stonercats https://www.coindesk.com/vitalik-buterin-joins-cast-of-stoner-cats-mila-kunis-new-animated-nft-show 1:24:50 Coca-Cola NFTs https://www.theblockcrypto.com/post/112779/coca-cola-creates-its-first-collection-of-brand-inspired-nfts 1:25:29 Pplpleasr Fortune Magazine https://twitter.com/pplpleasr1/status/1420780214175555585 1:26:53 Elizabeth Warren, Shadowy Super Coders https://decrypt.co/76997/elizabeth-warren-crypto-big-banks-shadowy-super-coders Letter: https://www.warren.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/FSOC%20Crypto%20Letter%2007.26.2021.pdf 1:31:30 Infrastructure Bill https://www.theblockcrypto.com/linked/112877/white-house-says-crypto-tax-enforcement-will-help-pay-for-bipartisan-infrastructure-deal Meme: https://twitter.com/sassal0x/status/1420769026804912131?s=20 Coin Center: https://twitter.com/jerrybrito/status/1420724068286926853?s=20 1:35:14 News Quick Takes 1:37:30 Goldman Sachs DeFi ETF https://www.coindesk.com/goldman-sachs-applies-for-defi-etf 1:40:00 TAKES 1:41:00 Facebook Metaverse https://twitter.com/ClaireSilver12/status/1418268267483996168 1:43:38 Regulatory Own Goal https://twitter.com/runekek/status/1419388578585513985?s=21 1:45:45 Gaming is Next https://twitter.com/tokenterminal/status/1418699352521035779?s=20 1:46:43 ETH vs. Commodities https://twitter.com/sassal0x/status/1419942343608729601?s=20 1:47:49 What David’s Excited About 1:48:30 What Ryan’s Excited About 1:50:38 MEME of the Week https://twitter.com/BanklessHQ/status/1418368850052096003?s=20 ----- Not financial or tax advice. This channel is strictly educational and is not investment advice or a solicitation to buy or sell any assets or to make any financial decisions. This video is not tax advice. Talk to your accountant. Do your own research. Disclosure. From time-to-time I may add links in this newsletter to products I use. I may receive commission if you make a purchase through one of these links. Additionally, the Bankless writers hold crypto assets. See our investment disclosures here: https://newsletter.banklesshq.com/p/bankless-disclosures

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:13Ryan Sean Adams?

  Hey, Bankless Nation. This is the fourth week of July and it is time Friday morning for your weekly roll-up. David, I am super excited about this weekly roll-up. We've got so much to unpack here.

• 0:24David Hoffman?

  We always do and this is always, like I say, my favorite piece of crypto content to produce. In this weekly roll-up, just like every other weekly roll-up, we go through the markets. What is the market saying? Then we go through the releases, what got released in the last week of crypto. Then we go through the news cycle events. And then we go into some ecosystem takes. Who has some interesting opinions in the week of crypto? Then we go to what David and Ryan are excited about and we finish things off with the meme of the week.

• 0:53Ryan Sean Adams?

  The meme of the week. Can't wait, man. This is gonna be a great episode. David, before we get in, we've got some PSAs, man. The first, let's talk about the first public service announcement. You have COVID, dude? I'm looking at your background. It's looking like you have COVID right now.

• 1:07David Hoffman?

  I have the COVID, yeah. I got it at ECC in Paris. Took a negative test, which allowed me to get out of the country because you have to take a negative test. And so I took, got my negative result back. I'm like, oh, great. I made it through ECC without COVID. Came back home and then had, started having allergy symptoms, which were very normal for me in Seattle. So didn't really think anything of it. But then on Tuesday, I got really, really achy. So went and got a test, came back positive, probably like did my, did my responsible thing of tweeting that out to like make, make sure everyone knew that if they got in contact with me in ECC that I had COVID. I don't know where I got it from. Obviously, there's a bunch of people around ECC who also got COVID.

• 1:52David Hoffman?

  So I'm not, not the only one. But there's a very interesting theme of a bunch of people who all got vaccinated. I'm vaccinated. A bunch of people who got COVID were all vaccinated. And so we're all, we're all have like relatively mild symptoms. I'm not, I'm not like dead or anything. I'm still doing the weekly roll-up as normal. I'm pretty, I feel pretty achy. But it's just like a relatively normal cold. Then there's a bunch of people who also have all of these same symptoms. But when they got their negative, they got a test and it came back negative. So that's kind of weird.

• 2:25Ryan Sean Adams?

  That is super weird. Yeah, and I can attest to that, David, because we recorded podcasts the last two days. Well, you've also had COVID and you've seemed like, like you're not feeling great, but still okay enough to do podcasting. Still okay enough to like, do some work, you know, that kind of thing. So it's not been as bad as some other cases. And you think that's because likely your vaccine mitigated that, huh?

• 2:48David Hoffman?

  A hundred percent, a hundred percent. And one of the reasons why I wanted to put this PSA in there is because like, well, now that I have my firsthand experience with COVID and also having a vaccine, and then also tweeting about it as like a public figure in the space, you actually realize how many people are out there who are like the never vaxer, anti-vaxer camp. And it is like, kind of sobering and frustrating. And so I cannot imagine what this would feel like without a vaccine. It would be way, I'm generally really achy, like, sitting in this chair is not even like a comfortable thing. And that's with the vaccine. I cannot imagine what it would be like without a vaccine. And I want to go to all the, one of the ironic things about the, my Market Monday this post this week in Bankless,

• 3:31David Hoffman?

  was talking about like the importance, the importance of being in person and how much I value being in person at these events. And then I come back with COVID. But I totally intend on going to all the other, like, in real life crypto events. And one of the reasons why, like, we haven't been able to return to normal in society is because people are refusing to take the vaccine and, and/or wear a mask when they should. And so like, it's, they, those, in my mind, those people are getting in the way of having all these like beautiful, awesome crypto Ethereum events that I want to have. And so if you want to go to those events, you gotta get a vaccine because you're making it bad for the rest of us.

• 4:08Ryan Sean Adams?

  There's your PSA, guys. All right, let's talk about another PSA. This is, this is another conference that's coming up. You actually don't have to attend in person. Would be great if we had more conferences in person, but not all of those are practical. But that, this is called SmartCon. We've been talking about it the last couple of weeks on the roll up. This is sort of your last chance to sign up, guys. So if you're listening to this on Friday, go click the link in the show notes, thesmartcontractsummit.io. This is a Free conference put on by the Chainlink folks, tons of DeFi researchers, tons of DeFi developers, tons of people with projects. David, you and I will be there with a DeFi, with a panel on EIP 1559, actually. We just secured guests for that panel. Who's gonna be on that panel with us?

• 4:52David Hoffman?

  Yeah, we got some guests that have not been on the Bankless program yet, and then one who has. We have James Wang, who recently put out a report on Ethereum, talking about the combination of EIP 1559 and proof of stake. We brought on Squish Chaos, who coined the term "the triple halving", and also to how Ethereum people should dream bigger dreams about what could be with regards to the value of Ether under the ultrasound money paradigm.

• 5:16Ryan Sean Adams?

  More bullish than us.

• 5:18David Hoffman?

  More bullish than us. Wow, that's hard. And then, familiar territory, DC investor coming in to fill out the panel. And so we got those three absolute rock stars joining us on an EIP 1559 and overall bullish Ether panel.

• 5:33Ryan Sean Adams?

  So check that out, guys. Get some tickets. Come, come check out that panel, all of the other educational events. It's like a two to three day conference, and make sure you're there. David, PSA number three, next week is actually EIP 1559 week. This is the week EIP 1559 is scheduled to launch. It looks like we're all on track to launch. That could happen as early as August 4th, but it might bleed into August 5th, and that seems a bit more likely because it's based on the, an actual block, block time, not a period of time. And there's something called the Ice Age, which is slowing down block time here lately. So it's difficult to pinpoint exactly when that will launch,

• 6:18Ryan Sean Adams?

  but it's probably going to be between the 4th or the 5th of August. And what are we doing next week to celebrate EIP 1559 week? I know we have a ton of events scheduled.

• 6:28David Hoffman?

  Yeah, we have three different things that we are doing. On Tuesday, we are doing our regular State of the Nation, but it's also not a regular State of the Nation. We are bringing on Tim Bako to help us moderate a EIP1559. Uh, how would you call this? Like the most forefront expert panel, all-star panel, right? So we've done, we did our EIP1559 episode with Hazu, which was absolutely great. And again, if you need to get up to speed with EIP1559, go listen to that podcast episode. It's titled EIP1559 because it is the full entire subject matter of what EIP1559 is from zero to 100. A really great episode. Hazu is going to be there on that panel. But in joining him, there's also going to be Barnaby from the Ethereum Foundation,

• 7:10David Hoffman?

  Matt Garnett from Consensus Mesh, and then Mika Zoltu, who's a, just a major EIP1559 contributor. These are not your 101, 201 level EIP1559 people. This is the leading forefront experts as to what EIP1559 is, along with Tim Bako, who's going to help us moderate, to ask us some of the questions that like Ryan and I aren't even smart enough to ask. And so this is going to be, if you are trying to become god status in terms of EIP1559 knowledge, Who doesn't want that? Who doesn't want that? God status, EIP1559 panel. Uh, hopefully I'm hyping it up appropriately and that is just the first event. That's just the first event. That's on Tuesday.

• 7:52David Hoffman?

  On Wednesday, which is in theory, maybe when EIP1559 goes live, we are going to be teaming up with the boys over at ETH Hub, Eric Connor, Anthony Sazano for our livestream. Many of you have joined us for the Proof of Stake Beacon Chain kickoff livestream, which we did at, I think like four in the morning. My roommate got very mad at me that day. Um, for having that livestream go and I woke him up. Uh, but, uh, we're doing it again, uh, for EIP1559. When that gets, uh, when, as we get closer and closer, we will be live streaming that with the guys from ETH Hub. So join us for that. That'll be on the YouTube. And then, as we just discussed, Thursday, the 5th is the SmartCon panel with James Wang, Squish Chaos and DC Investor,

• 8:33David Hoffman?

  all about Ethereum in a post-EIP1559 world and overall what's next for the role of Ether as it relates to EIP1559. So get stoked for EIP1559 week. That is next week.

• 8:47Ryan Sean Adams?

  And a good way not to miss all of that, of course, is if you are watching this on YouTube, subscribe to this YouTube channel. All of this will be published there. So you could check that out. David, another PSA, we've got a live stream that is happening tonight. So this is Friday when folks are watching that. That is a daily Gue livestream. I don't know if you guys are celebrating the next PSA, which is it's Ethereum's sixth birthday as you guys are listening to this, as you guys are watching it or what, but tell us about that livestream tonight.

• 9:17David Hoffman?

  Yeah, Anthony and I, we try and do these every now and then, but it's been getting harder and harder and harder as COVID has gone further and further into the, you know, people are going back and doing their daily lives. And so the Friday evening time has been harder to get a livestream scheduled. But since I'm in quarantine mode, Anthony and I, and so Anthony's in lockdown mode because Australia is like super duper locked down. We will be doing the bankless daily great livestream tomorrow evening, or excuse me, Friday evening tonight for the listener. So if you guys are also in quarantine mode for whatever reason, or just want to tune into me and Anthony talk about what's going on in the world of Ethereum, tune into that, which again, like Rand said, a significant part of it will be dedicated to the fact that

• 9:56David Hoffman?

  it is Ethereum's sixth birthday today, Friday, Ethereum, July 30th. The first block ever for Ethereum was mined on July 30th, 2015, and it is Ethereum's sixth birthday today. So happy birthday Ethereum.

• 10:11Ryan Sean Adams?

  Happy birthday Ethereum. You know, six years old, $250 billion network, not too bad for a six year old. I can't believe it's still so young, you know, half the age of Bitcoin at this point. We've come a long way. So definitely something to celebrate. Wow, guys, a lot of PSAs today.

• 10:28David Hoffman?

  But before we go any further, Ryan.

• 10:30Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah.

• 10:30David Hoffman?

  Here's a Ethereum birthday pop quiz trivia moment for you. What block are we on right now?

• 10:36Ryan Sean Adams?

  Dude, I don't know. I don't measure things in block time. I'll never forget the time when, what's it Vitalik who told us like a block time when we were going to schedule like a conversation or something. I don't speak in block time. So why don't you tell me? I'm going to fail this quiz.

• 10:55David Hoffman?

  Roughly 13 million block number is what it'll, but it'll be out tomorrow at the time of recording. Yeah.

• 11:00Ryan Sean Adams?

  13 million. Okay. There you go. That's a lot of blocks every six seconds. Impressive. All right, David, do you want to get to markets?

• 11:08David Hoffman?

  Let's do it.

• 11:09Ryan Sean Adams?

  All right, markets, where are we going? Where have we come from with Bitcoin this week?

• 11:14David Hoffman?

  Bitcoin, we started the week at thirty-two thousand and a half, thirty-two, five hundred, and we hit the high of forty-one thousand dollars. And we are currently just below forty thousand dollars at thirty-nine, eight hundred. So Bitcoin, pretty good week, up and to the right for basically the whole entire week. Interestingly, there was this price drama going on, and this rumor that Amazon would be accepting crypto and Bitcoin as payment. And that turned out to be a false rumor, but that rumor jacked up the price specifically on the twenty-sixth.

• 11:46Ryan Sean Adams?

  Is that what this huge spike is?

• 11:48David Hoffman?

  That's what that huge spike is, yeah. So Bitcoin on the twenty-sixth, it went from thirty-five thousand. And then like just a few moments later, it was at thirty-eight and a half thousand. And this actually caused a significant number of short liquidations. Usually you only see long liquidations come when people were over leveraged and then the price goes down. But we actually saw short liquidations, which caused the price to jump up. So that's what happened in the last week of Bitcoin price.

• 12:13Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, that's funny. I tweeted out that it seemed like Jeff Bezos, somebody told Jeff Bezos that Elon bought, had Bitcoin, you know? So he's like, he's like FOMOing in with billionaire stuff, but turned out none of that is true. I don't even know if Bezos is interested in crypto at all. I've never heard him comment on it.

• 12:31David Hoffman?

  Yeah.

• 12:32Ryan Sean Adams?

  So I guess that remains true. So what's the story behind a whole bunch of the the shorters who are liquidated with this price drop?

• 12:40David Hoffman?

  Yeah, I would say so crypto markets, they have momentum to them, significant momentum. And that's why bear markets can just be super prolonged, regardless of like strong fundamental positive catalysts. And vice versa, while bull markets can go on for way too long, even though prices get out way too far ahead of its ski tips. Crypto markets have momentum, and I think people have been trying to position themselves using that frame of reference, right? Oh, like, you know, Ether capped out at four thousand, Bitcoin capped out at sixty thousand. And now we had those, that big wreckage moment where everyone got liquidated and then and now it turned it went from time for number to go up into time for number number to go down and I think a lot of people piled into the number go down trade and too many

• 13:24David Hoffman?

  people piled into that trade and also I think the four year cycles are broken in my opinion and so too many people got short too quickly and they were betting on a down market but instead they got a crab market and in a crab market things also go up like at least for the short term and so a lot of hopping crab yeah it's hopping crab right yeah I remember I was either last week or two weeks ago Ryan we were talking about how the market was crabs with bear arms to this week it's a crab with bull horns yeah with with strong legs able to able to leap and jump and do all sorts of tricks so one billion of bitcoin futures was liquidated in in a 12 hour period of time this is on july 26 that's what you're talking about all right what's the story with

• 14:09David Hoffman?

  eth so we are happy because we are above 2k that is a good sign but where were we and where we come this week yeah ether started at $2,300 hit a low of 2250 if the high for the week is 2350 and the current price is $2,325 pretty flat week for for eth if you keep on zooming out Ryan it didn't really do too much not a lot of volatility in the last like seven days or so but you know generally pretty pretty flat with a slight up into the right trend I would say it kind of followed that bitcoin jump with the Amazon news and then sort of you know track similar to bitcoin but let's talk about that so how about the ratio what are we looking at this week yeah

• 14:53David Hoffman?

  the ratio is in this what I would call a falling wedge pattern again not a trader but this is the pattern that I'm seeing we are at kind of a low price of 0.058 a local low still a historical historically high price I would like to see that number come up above point oh six but still in that crab season territory so nothing too significant to the report here there's generally a theme of people kind of piling into a bitcoin trade right now bitcoin tends to lead the market and so while we are in crab season people are kind of looking for bitcoin to be the first thing to break that crab season trend and so there's just a little bit of rumors going around of people just kind of rotating into bitcoin be thinking that it's going to be the first mover to break

• 15:38David Hoffman?

  out of the trade we will see

• 15:40Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, definitely. We'll see. How about DeFi Pulse? What is the total locked value of DeFi this week?

• 15:46David Hoffman?

  Yeah, if I remember correctly, last week it was something like 56 or 57 billion dollars and we are up to 66 billion dollars locked in DeFi. So definitely broke out of a local trading or local, it's funny to call it trading range, but still kind of works. The chart, it's higher than it has been in the last like month or so, coming in at 66.6 billion dollars locked in DeFi.

• 16:08Ryan Sean Adams?

  More getting locked up. And then how about the DeFi Pulse Index? So this is a measure of course of the health of DeFi tokens. Where are we on the week?

• 16:18David Hoffman?

  Yeah, same story, slight up and to the right trend coming in at just roughly 300 dollars per DPI token. Higher than it was, I believe it was like 285 ish last week as well. So same story as Ether, not as up as much as Bitcoin is, but still up and to the right.

• 16:35Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, it seems like they're all kind of correlated together to like DeFi, Bitcoin and ETH and this last week's move in the crab market in general. It's been sort of the case. How about the DPI to ETH chart? I know this is a ratio we've been tracking for a while to see if we are in the precipice of another DeFi summer season. Hasn't come. We're in July going into August and we still haven't seen DeFi summer. Is that the story? Is the story continuing there?

• 17:01David Hoffman?

  Yeah, the DeFi tokens are definitely not going to be the first ones to move, in my opinion. If people are waiting for Bitcoin, people are going to be waiting for Ether before they're waiting for DeFi tokens. So coming in at point 1285 DPI per ETH, which is below my point 13 bottom call, but still in the approximate area. So I'm still pretty happy about it.

• 17:24Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah. So has it been two weeks that we've been below, David?

• 17:28David Hoffman?

  No, we were at point 035, 135. No, we're fine. We're fine.

• 17:34Ryan Sean Adams?

  We'll check next week. We'll check. We'll be checking back on this, Bankless listeners. Got to hold David accountable for his calls here. All right, let's talk about this, the Bankless Bed Index. So this is a new index put together by the Bankless Dow, of which we are huge proponents of, super exciting because it is. An opportunity to get a third Bitcoin, a third ETH and a third DeFi. So that's through the DPI index. So it's like an index within an index, but you just kind of buy it, set it and forget it. Nice asset. I think we're going to be looking at this on a, on a weekly basis. This is kind of a proxy, I guess, for crypto success in general, for crypto monies and also DeFi.

• 18:13Ryan Sean Adams?

  And we are up on the week from it looks like what 100 to about 115 on this. And we did make a promise, I think, or you did on Twitter, David, that, you know, somebody who, what's going on here? Is this a pancake? Is this an Olympic pancake?

• 18:30David Hoffman?

  People, people make pancake art, right? And there's a lot of memery jokes with the whole bed index. Like, you know, get in bed with bankless, getting breakfast in bed. Yeah, you know, eat all your three food groups, Bitcoin, Ether, DPI. And so there was an Olympic pancake art made and then we tweeted out saying, if somebody makes this for the bed index, we'll feature it in the roll up. So here it is. Somebody's making the bankless. And this is also bankless Dow. This is an index out of the Dow. Bankless Dow, the bed index pancake. Here it is for all the viewers on the YouTube. So make sure you eat all your food groups and also your yummy pancakes as well.

• 19:07Ryan Sean Adams?

  Got the color scheme right too, which is impressive. So like, you know, not just the design, but the color. Who do we have to thank for that?

• 19:13David Hoffman?

  Looks like X O P three with the ultrasound money meme emojis in the Twitter handle. So, so thank you for that. Ryan, if you go back to the, to the bed page, bankless listeners who are religious listeners of the, the weekly roll up, they will know that we go through Bitcoin and then Ether and then DPI. Well, what is the bed index other than Bitcoin and Ether and DPI? And so while we talk about Bitcoin and Ether and DPI separately, when we want to really summarize the market section, we're just going to turn to the bed index and that is what it's for. And so while we'll talk about Bitcoin was up this much, Ether was up this much and DPI was up this much. When we summarize it all together and show that the bed index was up 11% of the week,

• 19:57David Hoffman?

  there is your weekly average defined. Buy the bed index and that's why the bed index is so cool. It is literally all, like I said, the food groups of crypto assets and I put out this tweet thread.

• 20:10Ryan Sean Adams?

  There's only three food groups.

• 20:11David Hoffman?

  Yeah, yeah, that's, that's exactly right. Um, Bitcoin, Ether and DPI cover everything. So I put out this tweet thread. That kind of goes into why I think the bed index is going to be the best performing crypto asset index ever. Uh, and that's because it, it hits all of the major groups. It hits the crypto monies and the crypto finances. And it does it, in my opinion, in a 50 50 ratio, right? So Bitcoin and Ether, these are crypto monies and DPI is crypto finance. But Ether itself is also an index of Ethereum itself. Thanks to the power of EIP 1559 because EIP 1559, it links. The Ethereum application layer, the Ethereum economy to the value and scarcity of ETH.

• 20:55David Hoffman?

  So as finance on Ethereum grows, Ethereum grows, grows more scarce. This is the ultrasound money. Uh, thesis and so Ether, the asset, which is why we all love it so much, is one part money. One part, uh, exposure to Ethereum, the economy. And so it's, it's a little bit of both. It's 50% money, it's 50% finance. Bitcoin is a hundred percent money and DPI is a hundred percent finance. And so this is in my mind, the most balanced perfected index of all time. And while you think it's such a simple index because it's only three tokens, Bitcoin, Ether, DPI. DPI has 14 tokens inside of it. And while Bitcoin and Ether are forever and they're never going to change. DPI has the ability to update and iterate and evolve as the Ethereum app layer does.

• 21:37David Hoffman?

  And so you get the balance of monies that should not change, should not be tinkered with. And then finance, which always changes and always updates. And so it's both, it's both the long-term hold and the flexible, uh, token that updates along with the growth of the industry. I just think it's super elegant and that's why I'm super bullish on bed.

• 21:55Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, I think it's a great mix here too, David. And you know, largely super positive feedback. But you know, some people have pinged me and been like, well, you know, been listening to Bankless. It's clear you guys are a bit more bullish ETH than you are maybe Bitcoin, or though we are bullish both. And I would have loved to seen maybe a ratio of 50% ETH to some lower percentage of Bitcoin. But like, you know what the response to that is? Buy some additional ETH. You could buy BID and then buy some additional ETH or maybe Bitcoin.

• 22:24David Hoffman?

  And then LP it and get those fees.

• 22:27Ryan Sean Adams?

  Exactly. You can LP it into Uniswap and so take advantage of the success of BID index trading transaction fee. So there's lots of ways to play this, guys. Really cool new primitive, I think that's been added to the stack. We'll be talking about that in the future, too.

• 22:43David Hoffman?

  There's also a comment to be made there about the credible neutrality that is part of the Bankless thesis. Bankless, we like credible neutrality and that one-third, one-third, one-third allows us to be unopinionated as to what's going to do well. And indices are supposed to rebalance, right? So as one outperforms the other, the indices rebalances. And so that one-third split between all three is incredibly neutral way to do this. And that's what the Bankless thesis is all about.

• 23:08Ryan Sean Adams?

  You know, the only thing I would have loved to see, if there was some sort of a completely trustless version of Bitcoin on Ethereum, which we don't have now. This uses wrapped BTC, which is still somewhat banked. We have BitGo as a custodian. But perhaps in the future, I think this index could change. It could add staking assets of ETH. It could add different variations of Bitcoin as well. David, let's talk about this. Axie continues to grow. And some people thought it was like just a blow off the top, but it is still crushing it in terms of market cap. Let me switch to market cap actually here. So we had

• 23:44David Hoffman?

  Almost hit 3 billion.

• 23:46Ryan Sean Adams?

  Almost 3 billion market cap for Axie Infinity. We're down a little bit on that. But is that really the story here? Is like Axie hasn't stopped? Like it's just continuing to pump in terms of price?

• 24:00David Hoffman?

  That that first peak 1.5 billion, that's where we had Jiho on from State of the Nation. And like, I kind of facetiously, behind the scenes, said like, oh yeah, this is when Bankless is getting the Axie guys on on the show. This is probably a local top. I was completely wrong about that. There have been two more tots even after that show. And so the just magnitude of this run by AXS has been absolutely insane. And just has no signs of of really stopping anytime soon.

• 24:28Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, I just want to, I want to zoom out more because, uh, let me check that. You want to check this date? So this date, 2020, time in 2020, is when we first profiled the like, you know, like the first Bankless article came out about Axie Infinity. And how crypto games were going to be absolutely massive. And how AXS was a really interesting asset and game in that space. At the time, like, market cap was under $10 million. Now, here we are, 2.3 billion. Guys, it pays to stay attention in the space.

• 25:02David Hoffman?

  But did you buy any of it, Ryan, at the time?

• 25:05Ryan Sean Adams?

  I don't, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not talking about my bags, David. This is my show for bag talk.

• 25:12Ryan Sean Adams?

  You'll never know. It's like you don't know the full extent of my NFT connect collection. I'm not doxing those addresses.

• 25:19David Hoffman?

  Is it you that I'm trying to get my CryptoPunk from?

• 25:23Ryan Sean Adams?

  No, I don't sell. I only buy.

• 25:26Ryan Sean Adams?

  All right. So that's, guys, that is the Axie story. You know, another cool story is Layer 2 Summer. Optimism, Optimistic Rollups, just launched with Optimism launching Uniswap on it. And this is their daily protocol revenue, David. So they've, they've cleared some days verging on 10K in terms of daily revenue, which is really cool to see. Any takes here?

• 25:49David Hoffman?

  Yeah, the, the comment here is that, so it begins. This is just even more data for, for Ryan and I to talk about in the market section. It's lovely to see these L2s generate fees because that is crypto economic sustainability. And I expect there to be just be so much data about fees generated on L2 from the economic activity that they host there.

• 26:10Ryan Sean Adams?

  You know what? I'm going to go to website while we're here, CryptoFeeds.info. Let's take a quick look.

• 26:16David Hoffman?

  I don't know if David's updated, updated it that fast.

• 26:20Ryan Sean Adams?

  You know, it doesn't have it, but I'm just throwing this out there. Look, Cardano. Eight thousand dollars. Yeah, the L1, eight thousand dollars in one day fee. That is about the same that optimism is doing right now.

• 26:34David Hoffman?

  In a clone in a beta.

• 26:36Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, like this is it's kind of out there. I don't know, like Cardano doesn't have its smart contracts. This is not a section about Cardano. It's this is what we're talking about is the way you know that a blockchain has product market fit is if it has full blocks that people are paying for. That's how you know. Right. So really good metric to see layer two doing that. I think

• 27:00Ryan Sean Adams?

  it's going to catch some layer ones by surprise who actually don't have that demand. Let's talk about this headline too. David, in the market section, more than one in 10 Americans invested in crypto this year. So it's 10%. I don't know if that's higher or lower than what you think, but what I found was really interesting is is kind of who they are, like the demographics. It's actually more women than traditional stocks. If you compare investing cryptocurrency to traditional stocks, more investors of color, more lower income investors, less fewer college educated investors. But the big one here for me was the average age of a crypto investor, 38 compared to 47 for stocks.

• 27:41Ryan Sean Adams?

  They're definitely skewing younger, although 38 to me is like, that's a little older than I thought crypto might be. I guess it does skew in that direction though.

• 27:48David Hoffman?

  Right. Yeah, I've always been, if you actually pile into the data, you'll actually find that the, just like this. I remember when I was working at a startup before before Bankless, we were trying to get an average profile of the typical customer. And the the average age, I think, was something like 48. And so if you actually look into the data of like who you uses these platforms and who crypto people are, it's actually a little bit older than what you would think. Yeah, which is pretty crazy.

• 28:13Ryan Sean Adams?

  It's not just like 20 somethings and like, you know, kids using this stuff. There's definitely, you know, the average is 38. That feels about right. Maybe it's a little bit younger for DeFi, but probably not much to your point.

• 28:24David Hoffman?

  The data that the chart showed tells me a story about how crypto is more inclusive.

• 28:30Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, I I hope that's the case and I hope it continues to be the case. I think we have a lot more work to do there, but I think it will continue to be the case. Guys, we're going to be back with the releases of the week, but before we do, we want to thank the sponsors that made this episode possible.

• 28:44David Hoffman?

  Living a bankless life requires taking control of your own private keys, not your keys, not your crypto. That's why so many in the bankless nation already have their Ledger hardware wallets, which makes proper private key management a breeze. But the Ledger ecosystem is more than just a secure hardware wallet. Ledger is the combination of the Ledger hardware wallet and the Ledger Live app. And if you're used to seeing all of your crypto services and favorite D apps all in one place, Ledger is where you want to be. Not only does Ledger let you buy crypto assets straight from the app, but it also hooks into decentralized exchange aggregators like Paraswap, which makes sure that you are getting the best prices on your trades without your assets ever leaving your control. DeFi never stops growing and the Ledger Live app grows alongside with it.

• 29:28David Hoffman?

  So click the link in the show notes to see all the DeFi apps that Ledger Live has and stay tuned as more and more apps come online. And if you don't have a Ledger hardware wallet, what are you even waiting for? Go to ledger.com, grab your ledger, download Ledger Live and get all of your D apps all in one place.

• 29:46David Hoffman?

  Bankless is proud to be supported by Uniswap. Uniswap is a new paradigm in asset exchange infrastructure. Instead of a cumbersome order book system where trades are matched with other humans, Uniswap is an autonomous piece of software on Ethereum, which is what Ryan and I call a money robot. No human counterparties or centralized intermediaries, just autonomous code on Ethereum. Input the token you want to sell and receive the token you want to buy. Something brand new in the Uniswap ecosystem is the Uniswap Grants Program is now accepting applications for grants. We have been saying this for a while and we'll say it again. DAOs have money and they are in need of labor. If you think that you have something to contribute to the Uniswap DAO, apply for a grant to Uniswap.

• 30:30David Hoffman?

  Just look at the size of the Uniswap Treasury. It's almost $3 billion. This mountain of capital is looking for labor. Do you have something of value to contribute to the Uniswap DAO? No matter how big or small your idea is, you can apply for a UniGrant at unigrants.org and help steer Uniswap in the direction that you think it should go. That's exactly what we did to get Uniswap to be a sponsor for Bankless and you can do the same for your project. Thank you, Uniswap, for sponsoring Bankless.

• 30:59Ryan Sean Adams?

  Hey guys, we are back talking about the releases of the week. David, we have to start here. This is a hot apparel drop. I'm super excited about this. I was so excited. I already bought some of this. Ultrasound Summer Set Includes Ultrasound Summer T-Shirt, Ultrasound Summer Shorts, these shorts, swim shorts, am I right? So you wear these in the pool, run around the sprinkler, do your slip and slide, whatever you do in this summer, just in time for EIP 1559 for this drop. And this was created by the Bankless Dow and somebody in the Bankless Dow, Sinjin, who is incredibly talented designer. Yeah, man, I'm super excited about this drop. I bought mine. I don't know if you bought yours yet, but.

• 31:41David Hoffman?

  Oh, I bought two sets.

• 31:43Ryan Sean Adams?

  You did?

• 31:44David Hoffman?

  Well, I'm gonna wear it so much. I'm gonna wear one out.

• 31:48Ryan Sean Adams?

  Okay. Yeah, you wanna, you wanna have one for a few, like a couple of days of the week, right? You know, like, I guess, I guess.

• 31:56David Hoffman?

  Plus, if I ever get fat, I got a, I got a medium and I also got a large, just in case.

• 32:00Ryan Sean Adams?

  Oh, that's smart.

• 32:01David Hoffman?

  Right. It has just, once somebody on Twitter joked, just like, yeah, one for cutting season, one for bulking season, and you're goddamn right. That's exactly right.

• 32:08Ryan Sean Adams?

  It's kinda true. Yeah.

• 32:10David Hoffman?

  Plus, when you add the shorts and the trunks together, the price is $155.90. I wonder how that happened.

• 32:19Ryan Sean Adams?

  A perfect, fantastic calculation. You know what also came with this too, David? Well, it didn't come with it, but it is also part of this drop is the Bankless Nation Puzzle by Percy, which is just fantastic. A thousand pieces, I think, but yeah, just a great piece of art. I think, you know, talks about all of the themes we talked about on Bankless. So where can people pick, where can people pick this up, David?

• 32:43David Hoffman?

  Yeah, if you're on Twitter, just go to the Bankless Dow Twitter page, but you can also go to shop.metafactory.ai and you'll be able to navigate your way there. You can also type in slash collections slash Bankless. You will see all of the previously sold out stuff. Hopefully you got some of that stuff too. This is going to be a seven day sale. And so if you do not buy in the next seven days from the time of recording, then, so that they'll. And I believe like next Wednesday, if you do not buy by Wednesday, that is it. That is it. That's all you got. And so you can buy as much as you want between now and then. That's why I bought two. Because I knew I wouldn't be able to buy another one later. And so if you have seven days from the time of of the course, so really six days of your hearing this on Friday.

• 33:29David Hoffman?

  To buy this drop and that is always going to be true for all future drops. And this is how a meta factory and bankless Dow work. We like scarcity in the world of crypto. Then we like the prestige. We like the status of being some of the few people that have some of these really cool drops. And so you can only you only have one opportunity. And if you are hearing this, you got to get it right now. And so there'll be a link in the show notes and or you can go to bankless Dow Twitter page. It'll probably also be on the bankless Twitter page as well.

• 33:58Ryan Sean Adams?

  Crypto culture you could wear guys. That's what bankless Dow is up to. All right, Ben, let's talk about this polygon doubling down on gaming. Good time to double down on crypto gaming and NFTs. They just launched a hundred million dollar fund, think with Atari. So remember the old, you know, Atari system? They're back in action. They published some games and they're partnering with Atari and creating this fund, I think, to continue. Funding and doubling down on this new play to earn crypto gaming model that we've seen be so successful with with Axie. And in particular, David, side chains and layer twos where gas fees are low to nothing. And blocks place box block space is plentiful. That's the place to do it.

• 34:44David Hoffman?

  Absolutely. You need that. You need that instant finality in those cheap transactions. Otherwise, just gaming is not a thing. And it's really advantageous for Polygon and their poly token, which or their, excuse me, their Matic token. Which has done really, really well to start to turn themselves into a fund to invest on their own L two, their own side chain. And so that's exactly what they're doing. There is while it is kind of cool news that they are working with Atari. I do have information that when I fun fact, my first job in crypto was with an ICO advisory company back in 2018 and Atari was. One of our clients, the Atari name is actually kind of just a shell company that's been, the name has just been passed around. So it's no longer the Atari of old. It's the same company.

• 35:27Ryan Sean Adams?

  OGs from the 1970s who created the first Atari gaming system.

• 35:31David Hoffman?

  But it's not, it's not filled by the people that made the OG games.

• 35:35Ryan Sean Adams?

  It's the brand that is the most valuable piece.

• 35:36David Hoffman?

  It's the brand, right. And so while it is exciting that Atari is working with, with, you know, people in crypto, they've been trying to do this for ages now. And so that unfortunately is not really the cool part of the news. The cool part of the news is that Polygon is investing with a hundred million dollars into gaming on top of Polygon. That's the news that you guys should take away, should take away with this from. And so I, I love games. I play games all the time. I would love to play games with combinations of crypto assets. So I'm excited to see what happens, what comes out the end of this a hundred million dollar gaming fund on Polygon.

• 36:06Ryan Sean Adams?

  Me too. I think it's going to be boom time. I mean, people have seen the success of Axie. Now we've got the funding taken care of, so it's all going to be a lot of experience playing out here in the future. All right, let's talk about this, David. Ave Ark, we've talked about it a few times, I think, in the theme of institutional DeFi. Compound, of course, released a treasury app targeted towards institutions. And now Ave is doing the same. They have released Ave Ark. I know you were with Stani actually last week, talking a little bit about this. But, but what is it? And did Stani give any indication on when it's coming, David?

• 36:46David Hoffman?

  Yeah, it is, is just like you said, it's the, the Ave's version of Compound Treasury called Ave Ark. Love the name, love the branding, and is just basically a fractal off of Ave itself that has, that is the permissioned fractal, right? So it's built on top of the Ave protocol or built, built, excuse me, not on top of, but in adjacent to. Also governed by the Ave token holders. So that's interesting. And it's just a, it's just a K, it's just a KYC AML compliant version of Ave that allows some of these institutions to be more comfortable with who they are engaging with. And so it's basically a protocol, protocolized version of Ave for institutions. And the, the main question that I

• 37:28David Hoffman?

  Asked Stani when I interviewed him at ECC is, why did you build this? Did you build this because you think you can entice institutions with it? Or did you build this because institutions are asking for it? And Stani unequivocally said that it is the latter. It is because institutions have come to AVE and said, AVE, we love what you're doing. We want some of these stuff, but we can't compliantly use it without this, this and this. And so AVE went and went ahead and built this, this and this. And now there is AVE Arc, which is AVE for institutions. He said that they'll be launching sometime towards the end of this month, but it is currently the end of this month. So maybe it's now in the soon TM category.

• 38:09Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, absolutely. And shared liquidity with the rest of the AVE protocol, is that correct? So will this be a separate liquidity pool? Or does it share the rest of liquidity with everything that's non AML KYC?

• 38:21David Hoffman?

  I do not know. I don't know for certain, so do your own research on this. I think it has to be separate liquidity because the liquidity has to come from KYC individuals. And if you're using AVE, you are not KYC. And so institutions can't touch you by that rule.

• 38:38Ryan Sean Adams?

  Interesting. I think, yeah, I definitely think there's a sub theme here in DeFi that we want to continue to explore this institutional access to DeFi. David, let's talk about this, though. A fractional is a way to take a piece of art that you have, an NFT that you have, say a CryptoPunk, and sell pieces of it. You can keep the majority, but you could sell, say, 5%, 10% of it, you know, 50%, 60%, however much you want, you can fractionalize your NFTs and sell it. If you are a buyer, you can also purchase a fractional NFT. I know we had the founder of this on the podcast earlier this week with an Ask Me Anything to talk a bit about it, but it's a really cool story.

• 39:22Ryan Sean Adams?

  Do you want to give the TLDR of like the rest of this, what I didn't cover?

• 39:26David Hoffman?

  Yeah, there's two parts. One, you covered, which is you put the ERC 721 into a contract, and then many, many ERC 20s come out of that, allows you to get liquidity, allows you to do things you couldn't normally do. And then there's the other half of it, which is after you put the ERC 721 into the contract, and then you break it apart into thousands of different tokens, how do you get the thing to come back together? And so there is this reserve price sort of auction-type mechanism that allows there to hot swap or atomically swap Ether wherever the ERC 20 versions of this NFT are out and about. Perhaps they're collateral in AVE. They can be collateral in AVE, but then these tokens can be sold

• 40:08David Hoffman?

  and atomically swapped for Ether dictated by the price that it was sold at. And so this is how it can maintain collateral in these applications, because AVE or any application that needs collateral doesn't like it when collateral just gets yoinked from the protocol. That would be terrible. That would be completely broken. But that's what needs to happen in order for these fractionalized tokens to come back together, back into a whole unit. But the way that fractional fixes this is that it yoinks the NFT collateral in AVE, but it replaces it with the stale proceeds, which are Ether, which is already collateral in all these lending and borrowing applications. So really compelling application. I'm looking forward to seeing what the DeFi builders can do with it.

• 40:53Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, we use really technical terms on the bankless, like yoinks, you know.

• 40:59Ryan Sean Adams?

  This is a really cool protocol, David. I was stunned. And what I think that this does is it makes every single NFT that's out there more valuable. Why? Because you get a liquidity premium on it. Now you're not just locked into... Yeah, exactly. Now you're not just locked into a very expensive NFT. You can sell portions of it. So it becomes much more liquid, like other ERC 20 tokens. Very cool, primitive. I can't wait to find out what happens with this in the future. David, we should talk about this. I think this is a big piece of news. Binance is now allowing deposits and withdrawals to and from the poly chain, the polygon chain, excuse me, which is super

• 41:42Ryan Sean Adams?

  cool. This is something we predicted would happen, right? Maybe the idea that... The gateway to DeFi users won't actually be from exchange directly to Ethereum mainnet. It could start to be from exchange to sidechain or exchange to layer two. We might live our entire DeFi lives in the future on layer twos, in fact, that are secured by Ethereum. So this is the start of this, and if Binance does it, you know Coinbase is going to do it. You know Gemini is going to do it. You know Kraken is going to do it. If they're doing it with Polygon, you know they're going to be doing it with layer twos like Optimism, ZK rollups that are coming in the future, Arbitrum.

• 42:20Ryan Sean Adams?

  This is just fantastic for the user experience and adoption of Ethereum's layer two ecosystem and sidechain ecosystem. So it's super cool to see.

• 42:29David Hoffman?

  Absolutely. Binance actually does have a stronger relationship with Matic and Polygon than most other tokens, because Matic actually did their IEO on Binance years and years ago. And so Binance is really, really friendly to the Polygon network. And so that's probably why they got them out the door first. And this is just another story of overall L2 development. Now you don't have to go to Ethereum to get your money on Polygon. So it's pretty cool. Congratulations, Mihalo and the Polygon team.

• 42:57Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, very cool. All right, let's talk about this EtherScan. Look, where would we be without EtherScan? The most, like, the most unappreciated project in this space. And I just mean like, they don't get enough credit for everything that they do this space. Everyone uses EtherScan for something in their bankless DeFi journey. They've just added a really cool feature. What is this feature? Can you describe it, David?

• 43:20David Hoffman?

  Right, so if you are, if you've ever moved on your assets on to Polygon or Optimism or any other layer two, you move your assets to your same address because your private keys are your private keys for your address, no matter what chain you're on. The fact that you're on a different chain doesn't change what address you use, which means that your address can be traced and tracked by EtherScan, no matter what chain you're on. And so your address is the same on Matic, it's the same on Optimism, it's the same on Arbitrum as it all is on Ethereum, and as it is on Binance Smart Chain for that matter, right? Like, the whole thing about private-public keys is actually agnostic. Like from the blockchain. And so if you have the private key for one address, you have it on all of the blockchains that are that use the same.

• 44:05David Hoffman?

  The I can't remember. I think it's the BIP 32 route technical details. But

• 44:11Ryan Sean Adams?

  And a shortcut is like any EVM compatible chain, basically, right?

• 44:15David Hoffman?

  No, no, the the EVM is actually separate from the private key, public key pairs. That's a that's a separate thing. The the just all of these different. I'm pretty sure even Bitcoin follows the same like algorithm for producing a private, public, private key pair. I could be wrong about that. Anyways, your private keys work across all different chains. And so you can see what an address now this update from EtherScan is that you can go see what your address is doing on Ethereum. But then you can go and just like click a button and see what that same address is doing on all the other chains, because it's the same address. And so that's pretty cool. That's a nice little feature. So if people, people like I remember when I started first using Polygon, I would go and send my money there. But there wasn't really a block explorer like I kind of I kind of felt like I was just feeling around in the dark.

• 45:00David Hoffman?

  And now EtherScan has the all of the infrastructure up and running for it. And now it's just got this easy button to see like, OK, like, see what this address is up to on the other chains, which is a really nice feature.

• 45:10Ryan Sean Adams?

  This is all part of the story of, I think Ethereum and DeFi re-architecting towards a multi-chain, more scalable world, not just the Ethereum main chain, which is super cool to see. This this also, you know, follows that through line. Rabi released an announcement. So Rabi is a browser extension wallet. So it's like MetaMask. It was put together by the folks at D Bank. And their claim to fame is a smooth, multi-chain user experience. So you can use this across Ethereum. You can also use this across Polyj, Polygon, and the other Layer 2s as well, another Layer 2s as well. And I haven't used this yet, David. You know, definitely a huge MetaMask fan. I love what they've done.

• 45:56Ryan Sean Adams?

  You know, wouldn't couldn't do anything in DeFi without a combination of like MetaMask and maybe Ledger and some other some other tools in the space. But it's also good to see some competition in the browser extension. Wallet market. I know there's another segment of wallets I'm super bullish on, which is smart contract wallets as well of the kind that like Argent is creating. But this category, aside from MetaMask, doesn't really have a ton of competition on Ethereum. So competition breeds better user experience, better consumer choice. That's a good thing. And I'm hopeful they bring this. Like I said, I haven't tried this yet. I don't know if you have, but you know, it's good to see some new entrance into the space. What's your take?

• 46:37David Hoffman?

  Yeah, I've got it downloaded and it seems to be very similar to a user experience as MetaMask, maybe with a little bit of an improvement on the UI, maybe. I haven't, I haven't created an address yet, but I'll probably again do that relatively soon. Like, like, just like you said, competition really, really good for the consumer. The one hurdle that Rabi is going to have to get over is that now all of our favorite apps, Aave, Compound, you know, Nosisafe, all the things that integrate with MetaMask, they're also going to need to also integrate with Rabi. And so that is going to be the challenge for the Rabi team is to promote their own integrations into all the other DeFi apps that we all know and love. Because while it's fantastic that there is a second browser extension wallet that we can all now use,

• 47:20David Hoffman?

  it doesn't mean anything if we can't connect it to Compound or Aave or all the other DeFi apps that we use. I also think that the, the hair, because Rabi stands for rabbit, means rabbit, the hair versus the fox meme is gonna be kind of fun.

• 47:34Ryan Sean Adams?

  I didn't even, I didn't even catch that. Yep. Absolutely clever. Let's talk about this in the releases. Lira the Dow raised $3.3 million. This is an options protocol that's going to be native to L2. So options are the biggest financial, options derivatives, the biggest financial markets in the world. And they've certainly caught on in crypto, but they've just been centralized up to this point. So the BitMEXs and Binance and the FTX, they have massive options, massive derivatives markets right now. But the DeFi markets aren't of comparable size, right? Like Uniswap almost like surpassed Coinbase for some days like last year. It's getting to Coinbase size in certain, in terms of.

• 48:17Ryan Sean Adams?

  Trading volume, but the DeFi derivative space and option space is just just tiny compared to what's going on in centralized exchange. So everyone's asking like, why, why hasn't, why haven't derivatives and options taken off on in DeFi yet? And the reason I think that some companies are saying is is basically because we haven't had cheap gas space. The computation required to create some of these products has not been available, it's been too expensive up to now. And so that's what Lira is doing. They're basically deploying, I think on the optimism network, they'll probably do Arbitrum as well. And they're starting there, they're not even starting on main chain in order to make a product that is competitive.

• 49:03Ryan Sean Adams?

  And we'll see what happens with this next generation of DeFi options and derivatives products.

• 49:08David Hoffman?

  Yeah, I fully expect options to be a fully built out financial paradigm in DeFi by the end of this year. And it's going to be on L2. Like you said, this couldn't even have worked out on the L1. This is not an L1 product that could happen. You need scale, you need scalability to be able to make this work. And so now that we have L2, we are now going to see options. And so that's, I'm excited to be able to finally tap into a very, very important financial primitive on Ethereum, directly on Ethereum security.

• 49:42Ryan Sean Adams?

  Other derivatives products to look out for in the DeFi space, of course, DYDX, which is fully migrated to a layer two, a ZK roll up layer two. And also take a look at perpetual protocol. They are on XDI as sort of their their side chain type experience. So it's all happening on layer twos and side chains up to this point. David, let's talk about this. The blockchain unicorn, another blockchain unicorn project, Fireblocks, just raised $310 million, backed by Sequoia, Stripe, Spark Capital, a bunch of VCs, including Thailand's oldest bank. I think we should have Fireblocks on the podcast in the future because it's a really interesting story around institutional DeFi. I think they're providing, so they're providing like stake.

• 50:27Ryan Sean Adams?

  Services, it's, it seems to me like a bit go that's a bit more forward thinking and forward leaning in terms of protocols that they're supporting. So it's meant for institutions who can't custody their own assets, but want to get involved in staking, DeFi, some of these other things. And it seems like a big market, these VCs are anticipating a really large market for this. And that's why Fireblocks is getting the funding and gearing up to scale even more, like 310 million dollars, dude. I mean, how do you even spend all of that? That's definitely like a bull market raise here. So I think that's it as far as we have for raises, David. We should also talk about jobs, man. You know, I've been getting pinged here a lot recently

• 51:12Ryan Sean Adams?

  from folks in the bankless community who are like, hey, I just made the leap. I was in the traditional job. I just made the leap into crypto. It was partially because of the bankless program. If you are in bankless, if you're absorbing this content, chances are you might be looking for a job in crypto in the near future. We put together a jobs board just for that purpose. There's a close to 40 jobs on here. One was just posted this week is a senior product manager from Immutable, Immutable X. These are the folks behind God's Unchained. They're, they're building some really cool gaming scalability technology. We've got a full stack engineer from Palette. Those are the folks actually that, that helped create this job board. So thanks to Palette for that.

• 51:53Ryan Sean Adams?

  Senior solidity engineer from Quant Finance, chief investment officer, yield app, software engineer from Arbitrum, a senior designer from Pool Together. Guys, there are a ton of opportunities right now in crypto. Now is the time to get plugged in, start looking, see where you can add value in this ecosystem and take the next step on the bankless journey.

• 52:14David Hoffman?

  And don't think that these jobs aren't for you. These jobs are for you. So depending on your skill set, depending on what you can do. And also just the, the magic of working with other crypto people inside of crypto is completely different than just like consuming bankless podcasts for the rest of your life. Like get a job in the industry and you'll get ahead even faster than listening to bankless, which is something to say.

• 52:40Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, you're telling us to get a job, huh, David?

• 52:42David Hoffman?

  Yeah, I'm telling you to get a job.

• 52:43Ryan Sean Adams?

  Get a job, get a job, guys. All right, let's go to news. Man, a lot of news this week. We hopefully will have time to cover it all. The first is this PayPal's crypto division wants to roll out a super app. So not just PayPal's crypto division, but I think all of crypto wants to evolve their app into something that's a bit more complete, like a super app. This kind of reminds me of the conversation, the recording we just had with Richard Turin, who was talking about China's central bank digital currency and China's fintech infrastructure, where they have real super apps like Alipay and WeChat, where you're doing your social media, and also all of your banking inside of one super app experience.

• 53:26Ryan Sean Adams?

  It's your life. It's your whole thing, right? Like I text you to pay you and it's all inside of WeChat. It seems like PayPal is trying to get there too. And maybe, just maybe, David, they're going to rely on some crypto features to help them get there. Maybe not relying so much on the traditional banking system. I don't know. That's a hope, but we'll have to see. What's your take here?

• 53:47David Hoffman?

  Yeah, I have, I honestly have no idea what's coming. Those terms, "super app," definitely jogs my mind into exactly what you just said. But the other place that my mind goes is that like, we were joking with Jim Bianco when he came on the podcast and all of his friends were like, "All right, I downloaded Coinbase. Where's the DeFi?" And I think maybe PayPal is trying to make like the DeFi page. It's like, oh yeah, here's like borrowing and lending. Maybe they do the obfuscation, as in they have Compound, Ave, you know, all these apps in the background. Uniswap, you know, Matcha, they're all in the background. And then PayPal just does all the interface, like kind of like Instadap, right? Maybe, and maybe, maybe it's like the Instadap model is where they just kind of obfuscate everything.

• 54:30David Hoffman?

  I'm not too sure what's going on. Maybe they're also doing identity? Who knows?

• 54:35Ryan Sean Adams?

  Here's the thing, David, is like from our conversation with, with Richard Turin, right? So the banks in China, and you guys will hear this podcast, it comes out not next week, but the week after. This is all about Chinese central bank digital currency. It's a must-listen to your episode, guys.

• 54:50David Hoffman?

  You're going to be hearing about us and me and Ryan talk about it in the future.

• 54:53Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, it's, it's going to blow your mind, right? But so, but in China, they basically allowed their fintech companies or big tech companies to eat the banks. Right? In the US, in Western countries, we didn't do that. So like if PayPal wants to build a super app with like social media and also the super advanced banking and payment infrastructure, I don't see how they're going to be able to do it. The closest they can get is not with the traditional banking system, but like they almost have to build on crypto rails. Right? So your point like the, maybe they're thinking about an Insta app. I have no idea if they're thinking about that. I have no idea if they're there yet, if they understand DeFi enough to start to do that.

• 55:35Ryan Sean Adams?

  But they're almost going to be forced to in the future because they can't build a super app on traditional banking infrastructure from the 1970s, can they?

• 55:45David Hoffman?

  Right. Yeah, you're absolutely right. They cannot do some of the banking stuff that they want to do. But they can do DeFi, right? They can grow the DeFi mullet. And so maybe that's kind of, maybe the super app, maybe the super app branding and marketing isn't for you and me, Ryan. Maybe it's for like the legacy people who are, who don't know what DeFi is and then PayPal. And this has always been the promise of the DeFi mullet from, from day one is PayPal can hook into Uniswap, hook into Compound, hook into Maker, hook into whatever, and then they can just present that as their own finance product to the, in the front end. It's like, oh, hey, here's PayPal's like exchange feature. Here's PayPal's, you know, in low interest loans.

• 56:25David Hoffman?

  Like they don't have to advertise it as Ave or Compound. They can advertise it as PayPal. There's nothing wrong with that.

• 56:32Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, exactly. How do you get a 4% savings account?

• 56:34David Hoffman?

  Oh, don't, don't ask. Don't ask. PayPal's brand new product.

• 56:39Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, and we'll ensure it and it'll be fine, consumer, you know, exactly. Yeah, I think that could be the case.

• 56:45Ryan Sean Adams?

  All right, let's talk about this. This is maybe partially why Bitcoin price, ETH price went up and then kind of fell back down. Amazon Jobs just released a digital currency and blockchain product lead, uh, job description. So they're trying to hire someone for digital currency and blockchain products. I wonder what this means.

• 57:04David Hoffman?

  I, I can only think that it means that crypto is taking over the world and now it's finally trying to take over Amazon. So if you are in the local Seattle area, go ahead and apply to Amazon for, for getting this job. And also Amazon, come post this on the Bankless Jobs Board.

• 57:20Ryan Sean Adams?

  Oh, definitely. They should. You're in Seattle, David.

• 57:23David Hoffman?

  Currently in Seattle, only temporarily while I'm in quarantine.

• 57:25Ryan Sean Adams?

  Okay, all right. You would apply for this, I'm sure. I'm sure this would be you.

• 57:28David Hoffman?

  I think I could be a product lead.

• 57:31Ryan Sean Adams?

  I think you could do anything. I believe in you, David. You could do anything.

• 57:35David Hoffman?

  All right.

• 57:35Ryan Sean Adams?

  Definitely be.

• 57:36David Hoffman?

  We're gonna get somebody else for the next week's bankless weekly roll up. See me at Amazon.

• 57:42Ryan Sean Adams?

  All right, um, let's talk about this. Uh, Jack, Jack Dorsey, the ETH troll? I don't know, man.

• 57:49David Hoffman?

  Big ETH troll.

• 57:49Ryan Sean Adams?

  What's up with this tweet?

• 57:50David Hoffman?

  Yeah, so it's the Olympics and so all the three-letter country codes are now have a flags associated with them. And Jack decided to tweet out hashtag ETH for Ethiopia with the Ethiopian flag. But granted, there are many, many, many countries that have the the flag with them. And Jack decided to tweet out specifically hashtag ETH, uh, which everyone kind of, everyone kind of interpreted as a troll to the Ethereum community.

• 58:17Ryan Sean Adams?

  We all know what it means.

• 58:18David Hoffman?

  We all know what it means, Jack. He's a known Bitcoin maxi. Uh, and so, yeah, and so, you know, Twitter, if you do hashtag BTC, you get the Bitcoin logo. If you get, if you get like, uh, or dollar sign BNB, you get the Binance coin logo. And, and if you do the dollar sign ETH, you don't get anything. Um, and to some degree, the Ethereum people don't really want it, but it definitely shows, uh, by Jack's colors as like very much a non ETH person who's trying to troll ETH. Uh, and I kind of got upset about this because, and you're not supposed to get upset about this because you don't want to feed the trolls. But what did upset me is that I am a big proponent of mindfulness. And maybe that's ironic that I just said I got upset about it.

• 58:59David Hoffman?

  But I'm a big proponent of mindfulness and so is Jack and so is Jack. Yet he is so goddamn biased about, about Bitcoin versus Ether. And he just wanted to troll the entire Ethereum community. Uh, and so it bugs me that a guy who's like, uh, a proponent of mindfulness is also just like unable to get out of his own maximalist shell.

• 59:19Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, I do think that's going on. Now, you could interpret this troll as like just a lighthearted jab. You know, like, I like this sports team, you like that sports team, and I'm just gonna be like, just a jab at you. Although I will say, look, man, Jack has just come out recently talking about building DeFi, right? Jack's version of DeFi at Square on what? On Bitcoin.

• 59:40David Hoffman?

  Sigh, big sigh.

• 59:42Ryan Sean Adams?

  His, his, his value system that he purports is very much like open source, protocol-centric decentralization, right? That's what he preaches. And then we have this whole DeFi ecosystem that we built out in Ethereum. And it's, Jack totally ignores it. I, I just don't understand why at this point. But one explanation is like, all in Bitcoin, you know, you know, maximalism. But let's talk about the, the, the cool story here, which I think that's only the first part. But like, what did the Ethereum community do as a reaction to this?

• 1:00:14David Hoffman?

  Oh, they just completely owned it. They were like, oh yeah, I guess we're friends with Ethiopia now. Like, oh, Ethiopia is ETH, we're ETH, we're Ethereum, now best friends with Ethiopia.

• 1:00:25Ryan Sean Adams?

  So yeah, you saw all these great memes of like Ethiopian flag and like Ethereum together. And like Ethiopian foods, all sorts of things. Anyway, it was, it was just a fun meme, I think, for the internet. And good thing to do if you are being trolled in this way is don't fight back, just own it. It's a lesson for everyone on the internet.

• 1:00:44David Hoffman?

  And even CoinGecko got in on the fun. So if you go to Ether or Ethereum on CoinGecko, it now has the Ethiopian flag on it. And then, and then this tweet got 4.6 thousand likes. How many likes did Jack's tweets get?

• 1:00:58Ryan Sean Adams?

  A bit more there.

• 1:00:59David Hoffman?

  Oh, 28,000. All right. Well, he's the founder of Twitter, so okay.

• 1:01:01Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, 28,000, that's great, yeah.

• 1:01:03David Hoffman?

  Home field territory.

• 1:01:05Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, he's got a lot of followers, I'd say. All right, let's talk about this, David, because this was alarming, I think, to summon the crypto space. Token access on app.uniswap.org, that is the front end of the website that is officially hosted by the Uniswap Labs team.

• 1:01:23Ryan Sean Adams?

  They delisted, at least in the application layer, some assets, particularly synthetic-type assets, the types of assets that centralized exchanges have been delisting, you know, like the synthetic Tesla, the synthetic stocks, this sort of thing. And this appears, and I think that they say explicitly in the post, this is as a result of increased regulatory scrutiny on the space. So, a whole bunch of people in crypto, of course, like Bitcoin Maximus jumped on this and said, "Uniswap has never decentralized in the first place."

• 1:01:54David Hoffman?

  Right.

• 1:01:54Ryan Sean Adams?

  And other folks who have not been in the space as long also started saying, "Hey, I'm like, this is really concerning. What happened to this permissionless, open decentralization thing if Uniswap can just delist assets?" David, you know, what actually happened here? What's the, what's the real story here?

• 1:02:13David Hoffman?

  Okay, so there's two Uniswaps. There's Uniswap the Protocol, and then there's the Uniswap application front-end that Uniswap Labs operates. And the Uniswap Labs has an exchange. Think, they have their own exchange. Think it's like, it's a Binance, it's a Coinbase, it's a Gemini, it's a Uniswap. And that Uniswap, instead of having their own order book on their centralized data layer, database, instead, like all the other ones I just listed, instead, they just tap into Uniswap the Protocol. And so, Uniswap the front-end, run by Uniswap Labs, taps into Uniswap the Protocol. The Uniswap the Protocol, and this is not about that at all. Nothing changed about Uniswap the Protocol. Uniswap Labs,

• 1:02:56David Hoffman?

  their front-end, you can no longer get these synthetic assets to appear. And that's what they mean by delisting. But the tokens themselves still have liquidity, still are assets on the Uniswap exchange, and you can go to the Uniswap Protocol and trade them as you see fit. That has not changed at all. And so, treating Uniswap Labs' front-end as an exchange, they want to not get involved with any regulators whatsoever. They're just a front-end. And so they compliantly delisted all of these synthetic assets, so that they wouldn't have to deal with any regulation issues. That's not even, it's not even what they're trying to do anyways. They're not even, they don't even make money from providing a front-end to the Uniswap Protocol. Now- Uh, just like you said, uh, two cohorts of people I noticed made a bunch of noise about this.

• 1:03:41David Hoffman?

  Like the Bitcoin maxies or the people who generally just don't want Ethereum to succeed. And so they said, oh yeah, Uniswap's always been like completely centralized, completely like censorable. We knew it all along. And to me, that's just like, they are just broadcasting how incredibly naive and biased they are because they're just showing you.

• 1:03:59Ryan Sean Adams?

  Dude, I got called, I got called scammer. Like people dug up tweets where I said Uniswap, yeah.

• 1:04:04David Hoffman?

  I'm sure.

• 1:04:05Ryan Sean Adams?

  Daily I get called scammer, but, but like specifically in this event, people, Bitcoin or maximalists were very angry and they, they felt like this was a chink in Ethereum's DeFi armor.

• 1:04:15David Hoffman?

  They're refusing to learn why we're so excited about these, this whole DeFi thing in the first place. Like it's so incredibly ironic. They come to you and they tell Ryan, you're a scammer. You said Uniswap was decentralized. And if they are telling you that you're a scammer because of this, they're the scammer. Because they're trying to create a false narrative about Uniswap to try and get them to buy Bitcoin. And it's like, oh yeah, DeFi could have never worked. Yeah, it gets so frustrating. And the, and the thing is.

• 1:04:43Ryan Sean Adams?

  Alright, so that's the one group, right?

• 1:04:44David Hoffman?

  That's the one group. And then, and then there's like the, the newer people who come into the space and say, oh, Uniswap delisted, uh, tokens? I thought the whole thing about this was censorship positions and you're totally right. And it absolutely is. And that's why it's important to understand the difference between the front end and the back end. And the back end is a censorship resistant protocol built on Ethereum, doing all the things that Ethereum's supposed to let them do. And the crazy thing is, the most frustrating thing is, we've done this before. Like we did this two years ago. It was the same story. Uh, and so Ryan, you wrote this in December 9th, 2019, titled Unstoppable Liquidity. Tell us why you wrote this article.

• 1:05:21Ryan Sean Adams?

  I was just scamming people.

• 1:05:22David Hoffman?

  Left and right. Why did you write this article?

• 1:05:24Ryan Sean Adams?

  Wanted to scam everyone. No, I, it was because a similar incident happened in 2019 where there was a regulatory scare, uh, around, um, I think it's OFAC countries. So these are countries on basically like the international ban list or like the US's ban list. So Iran, North Korea, some other countries that the US has like legal, uh, Trade embargoes against. And so what happened was Uniswap was unavailable. The official Uniswap site became unavailable to specific countries, right? It was like, kind of like, if you have an IP address coming from Iran, you can't access the official Uniswap interface, right? And so what did that mean at the time in 2019?

• 1:06:08Ryan Sean Adams?

  Well, it actually does the opposite of everything the critics are proclaiming, because it actually demonstrated how unstoppable the Uniswap protocol is. Because within minutes, this is what happened in 2019, and it's what happened in 2021, last week. Within minutes, all of these other new Uniswap interfaces surfaced, right? So like, anyone can build a Uniswap interface. They could just fork the Uniswap interface code as well, and like, deploy it somewhere else. They don't even have to deploy it on Amazon servers or centralized servers. You can even deploy it in something like IPFS. If you don't want a dot com domain name, that's also kind of a, you know, centralized domain name, you can host it on ENS

• 1:06:53Ryan Sean Adams?

  or some sort of decentralized domain name service. And so this is what you found in 2019. You had uniswapexchange.eth, you had uniswapexchange.eth.link, totally uncensored, and uncensored, accessible anywhere in the world. All the assets listed. It's because all of the good stuff, the logic, the liquidity, the assets, everything, that's all on chain, that's all uncensored, unstoppable on native Ethereum. And so like, the interface isn't even the thing here. And this is exactly what happened. You can access Uniswap and all of those synthetics that were delisted on the official app in any of these other, you know, third-party websites, and anyone can spin these up. You can even run it yourself, David.

• 1:07:38Ryan Sean Adams?

  If you want to get super geeky, you can like, download the Git code, you know, repositories, and just run the interface on your local machine and trade that way.

• 1:07:46David Hoffman?

  And this is what it means to be an anti-fragile decentralized system. If you cut off the head, then 10 more show up. Like, I don't even go to Uniswap to trade my assets. I go to like Matcha, or any other number of Uniswap front-ends. And so like this, if you just go somewhere else, like it's just an interface, it's just a front-end. And so, Ryan, I'm looking forward to doing this again in 2023, when like, something happens and then the Bitcoin Maxies, once again, like throw up their arms and be like, "Oh yeah, we knew Ethereum was centralized", like blah blah blah blah.

• 1:08:21Ryan Sean Adams?

  The other thing, I don't know why people, like, what's your solution? If you're a Bitcoiner, like, God bless you, if you're a Bitcoiner. What's your solution to this problem?

• 1:08:30David Hoffman?

  Right, you guys don't even have a Uniswap.

• 1:08:33Ryan Sean Adams?

  Right? Go to Coinbase?

• 1:08:35David Hoffman?

  Right.

• 1:08:35Ryan Sean Adams?

  I guess the solution is, don't trade any other assets, there's only Bitcoin.

• 1:08:39David Hoffman?

  Oh yeah.

• 1:08:39Ryan Sean Adams?

  But like, that's not a satisfactory answer, that's not what we're...

• 1:08:41David Hoffman?

  It is, if you're a Bitcoiner. Bitcoin Maxi.

• 1:08:44Ryan Sean Adams?

  Alright, alright, let's talk about this. This is super exciting. I feel like this still went under the radar, you know, it was a big news last week, is Reddit's community point system is scaling on Ethereum using Arbitrum, so Layer 2 technology. And that's just huge, because Reddit has been talking about a community point scaling system, like tokenizing. It's, you know, how Reddit has subreddits, David, all sorts of different subreddits out there. Each subreddit can have a notion of community points that are rewarded for different behaviors in the subreddit. And they created like a pilot project of this, and they just knew Ethereum mainnet wouldn't scale. Anyway, they finally come up with their scalability solution for

• 1:09:27Ryan Sean Adams?

  achieving this project, and it's on Arbitrum. And the thing about Reddit is, 450 million active monthly users, like, that's insane. I mean, we have probably 1 million, maybe 2 million people in DeFi right now, right? This is potentially adding 450 million, like a total addressable market when you include social media, into the DeFi ecosystem of the future. And they're doing it on Ethereum's Layer 2. And the reason they selected Layer 2 specifically for Ethereum is... Decentralization, that's what they said in their post. So this is the protocol sync thesis at work, right? Where organizations don't want to build on finance chain that's controlled by CZ.

• 1:10:11Ryan Sean Adams?

  They want to build on something that is credibly neutral at the base layer. And it's really cool that Reddit is seeing that. And I think this is going to be a big story of how web, web two, social media starts to interact more and more with, you know, web three, DeFi and, and this, you know, internet of value that, that's being built out right now.

• 1:10:32David Hoffman?

  Yeah, that, that last take that you just had, how Reddit is going from a web two to a DeFi world. Like this is Reddit getting a huge upgrade and stepping into the world of web three. And there's a decent amount, web three is kind of largely undefined. No one really knows what it is. Everyone has their own kind of definition for it. But I think as soon as you integrate financial assets with community engagement, like hubs, which is what Reddit is, then we start to drift into the world of, of web three, incentivize communities, incentivize participation, incentivize content curation. And like, think of the magnitude of how many users Reddit has and how many, they're all going to be introduced to Ethereum, maybe not directly.

• 1:11:15David Hoffman?

  And, and kind of the point in the long-term like bullishness of Ethereum is that it actually just is an invisible operating system in the background that no one really thinks about anymore. And this is kind of this instantiation of that Reddit is going to use optimism. Optimism is so fast and instant that it just feels like a normal website, yet it's secured by Ethereum. And now Reddit's like, you know, millions and millions of users are now touching Ethereum, at, at least at the, in a, in a, with maybe a couple of degrees of separation. You know, first there's Reddit built on top of optimism, which is built on top of Ethereum. But it comes back, all roads lead back to Ethereum at the end of the day. And so Ethereum is about to touch so many more lives and that's going to be really cool to see.

• 1:11:54Ryan Sean Adams?

  And they're gonna figure this out, David. There's like 30,000 different subreddits, right? And that like, what is a subreddit? It's a community, isn't it? Right? Like 30,000 subreddits, all of these could potentially become DAOs.

• 1:12:06David Hoffman?

  Right.

• 1:12:07Ryan Sean Adams?

  If you have sort of some

• 1:12:08David Hoffman?

  If you expand the definition of a DAO, it could just become a subreddit.

• 1:12:12Ryan Sean Adams?

  Who knows? I just have no idea what like the experimentation's coming, but it is coming. And I think this is made possible by some of the layer two tech. Super cool to see. David, let's talk about EIP 1559 for just a minute. Because this is like an embarrassing take by CNBC. I'm glad they're talking about ETH and EIP 1559 on CNBC. But they don't, they still don't really know what they're talking about. So this is Michael Wong with the tweet from Brian Kelly on CNBC. What happened here?

• 1:12:44David Hoffman?

  Yeah. So Brian Kelly thinks EIP 1559 means proof of stake. I mean, I remember when I was trying to learn about crypto and Ethereum and I was making like statements like this. And so like, to some degree, maybe Brian is just like learning. But also if you're learning, don't present this on CNBC, like become a little bit more educated. And then also the Ethereum classic on the Ethereum classic graph on the screen while talking about Ethereum. It's frustrating.

• 1:13:11Ryan Sean Adams?

  Sigh.

• 1:13:12David Hoffman?

  And like to some degree, I'm like just not convinced that our legacy like media institutions are actually ever going to do it for us. And so there's always been the conversation of like, are we, when are the institutions coming versus like, oh, are we just gonna make our own new institutions? And like, this is evidence for the fact that, oh, we're just gonna make our own new ones.

• 1:13:29Ryan Sean Adams?

  Oh, that's a, that's a great take. And I think, I definitely think it's the second in all sorts of categories, not just media, but definitely media as well. David, let's talk about this. Bitco and Index Co-op have turned, have partnered up, which is super cool. We just had Index Co-op on the State of the Nation earlier this week. And we're talking about institutional DeFi. Now they have teamed up with Bitco. It seems like Bitco provides crypto custody service. Because a lot of these institutions, David, that like, they can't hold their own private keys in institutional structure, right? So they can't have, you know, millions and millions of dollars on MetaMask or like somebody's ledger or something like that. So they have to use custodians like BitGo.

• 1:14:12Ryan Sean Adams?

  And now I think what's happening is BitGo is providing access to all the index co-op products. So that's the bed index, that's DPI, that's their their Metaverse investment product. That's ETH F L I. It's all of their their products, exposing that to institutions. That's a super big move because of course, there's a lot of, there's a lot of money flowing out there in retail. But there's even more on the institutional side and giving them access to these DeFi products is kind of neat.

• 1:14:43David Hoffman?

  Yeah, having that, having, especially with the bed index, which is really meant to be a buy and hold, having that go straight into like custody cold storage. Really, really useful. Institutions, buy the bed. Get into bed with us.

• 1:14:55Ryan Sean Adams?

  You, you think we have institutions listening?

• 1:14:58David Hoffman?

  Oh, yeah, sure. Well, members of institutions.

• 1:15:01Ryan Sean Adams?

  Absolutely. All right. NFT stuff, David. Shopify is allowing merchants to sell NFTs directly through their store. They are using the Flow blockchain to do that, to, to, to sell NFTs directly to customers. So we have a Shopify store, right? And this is where, like, you could sell merch, this sort of thing. You spin up a Shopify store and I guess now they've just integrated an extension to allow Flow NFTs to be sold on top of Shopify. This is mainstreaming NFTs. What other takes are there here?

• 1:15:35David Hoffman?

  Yeah, Flow NFTs are not actually NFTs. They're fraudulent illegitimate NFTs because Flow isn't actually a cryptoeconomic system. It's a centralized database, but it's a foot in the door for NFTs to become integrated to the rest of the world. Shopify owes no homage to Flow and as soon as it wakes up and realizes that NFTs on Flow are illegitimate, then maybe they will wake up and maybe they just need to scale. And so maybe we, maybe they should, we should introduce them to Immutable. Because Immutable is a Starkware L2 that is specific built for NFTs. And so if they need NFTs on a scale platform, they should be talking to the guys over at Immutable X, not the guys over at Flow.

• 1:16:16Ryan Sean Adams?

  I want, I want to hear what you said, though. This is strong language. I think NFTs on Flow are, you'd say, illegitimate?

• 1:16:22David Hoffman?

  Yes.

• 1:16:22Ryan Sean Adams?

  What do you mean by that?

• 1:16:23David Hoffman?

  Uh, okay, so NFTs, non-fungible tokens and, and NFTs at large. Concept of the metaverse is defined by user ownership, which means that any NFT that is not deployed on a decentralized, permissionless blockchain is not an NFT. It is something else that they have sold to you as this scarce asset that they're never going to reproduce. But do you actually own it if they can either shut down the blockchain or like censor your ability to touch it? And just can like overall dictate control over what assets that you own. It's kind of like if you were to go into a game like Fortnite or any other game, you know, Hearthstone, and you purchase items in the game,

• 1:17:08David Hoffman?

  but then they can just revoke your account or like cut you off or revoke your items. Are they really NFTs? No, NFTs are synonymous with maximal settlement assurances about ownership over the asset. And Flow does not give you that in the same way that like any censorship, any, you know, centralized database.

• 1:17:29Ryan Sean Adams?

  How about this, David? What about NFTs on a side chain? Something like XDi or even something like Polygon, right? Are they NFTs or are they not NFTs?

• 1:17:39David Hoffman?

  They are, they are, they can be. I mean, it depends on, they can become tokens on Ethereum, right? So if you have a token on XDi or on Polygon, it is a token also on Ethereum. And so you can make that trust assumption as the user to put your tokens on Polygon. And that's your choice. You are taking that choice. So even if like you go and you mint that token on Polygon, you have the ability to go back to Ethereum and then you always get your maximum settlement assurances. Flow is a completely different blockchain. You can't go from Flow to Ethereum. So you can never access the maximum security of Ethereum.

• 1:18:14Ryan Sean Adams?

  So what I think the flow people would say is they are a layer one blockchain and they have some trade offs with Ethereum on the decentralization spectrum. But and they're not as decentralized as Ethereum, but they would say this may maybe case they would make or or somebody would make. But you don't have to be maximally decentralized for NFTs. For instance, like the use case doesn't require that, or maybe you might say like flow is a property rights system. But it is not, it doesn't provide as strong security guarantees as something like Ethereum, but it does provide some security guarantees.

• 1:18:56Ryan Sean Adams?

  That are not quite Fortnite level centralization database like there's a spectrum there. And maybe they're not all the way left to Ethereum, but they're also not all the way right to Fortnite. They're kind of somewhere in between. Don't know how far in between, but somewhere in between. What's your take on that?

• 1:19:15David Hoffman?

  Yeah, that the place that that that spectrum that you're talking about, the place where it should be expressed is at the layer twos of Ethereum. If you want to compromise on decentralization, you go to an L two where you actually don't have to compromise on it. That's the whole point of the L two. So optimism and Arbitrum, they have speed and low latency because of the of the innovations in in optimistic rollups or ZK rollups, if you're talking about ZK sync. And so I know denied because like we have better solutions as L twos on Ethereum where you don't have to make those compromises.

• 1:19:52Ryan Sean Adams?

  How about, let's say there's a bridge from flow to Ethereum, right? There's a bridge from flow to Ethereum. And so flow just becomes like the L two, if you will, not an L two, sorry, like a side chain with that bridge, that connection back to Ethereum. So they get people in the NFT world, they get them excited about it's not maybe a pure real NFT. But then it's it has the ability to bridge across to to something like Ethereum. What's your take there? Now, it's like, I'll separate something because I think part of what you're reacting to is some marketing around flow and quite frankly, other layer ones that says, we're just as decentralized

• 1:20:31David Hoffman?

  Right.

• 1:20:31Ryan Sean Adams?

  as Ethereum. And you have the exact same, um, your

• 1:20:35David Hoffman?

  Assurances, right?

• 1:20:36Ryan Sean Adams?

  Assurances, trust assurances, settlement guarantees as Ethereum. And like, that's a lie. And like, I think partially what you're reacting to is that. I just see a world where this brings in a whole bunch of new NFT users, right, into the ecosystem. And it's kind of like, you have to start with Gemini and Coinbase first before you get into DeFi. Yeah, maybe you start with Flow first. Maybe Flow is just actually a, a side chain to, to something like Ethereum. Thoughts on that?

• 1:21:04David Hoffman?

  It's important as to where the token lives. Where does the NFT live? So if you have an NFT on Flow and you can bridge it over to Ethereum, if that NFT still lives on Flow, then you still have compromised trust assurances. If, once you get that NFT over to Ethereum and then that token then lives on Ethereum, then we're good. Then it's an NFT because then you have the assurances that Ethereum. It's all about assurances. It's all about user sovereignty.

• 1:21:30David Hoffman?

  And if an NFT on Flow, if Flow accidentally like had a hiccup in the, in the blockchain, or they just went away because of regulation, do you still have your asset? And in my mind, if it's on Flow, the answer is no. And if you move that token from Flow to Ethereum, but all the data still lives on Flow, right, where Ethereum is checking Flow as to whether the NFT exists or not, then it's still compromised. Ethereum needs to check Ethereum to see whether that NFT is real or not. And so it's a matter of where does that NFT live? And in order to be a legitimate NFT, it has to live on whatever is maximally decentralized, maximally censorship resistant, maximally permissionless. And whatever is the most maximal is the most legitimate place to issue NFTs and that place is Ethereum.

• 1:22:17Ryan Sean Adams?

  There you go, guys. I didn't know we were gonna have that conversation.

• 1:22:19David Hoffman?

  There was a full episode right there.

• 1:22:22Ryan Sean Adams?

  Mini episode within a roll up. Alright, David, let's, let's talk about this. This is, uh, this is still in NFT world. Stoner Cats. Mila Kunis, she has a new animated NFT show, Cats Again, shutting down the Ethereum blockchain. I don't know, I was, uh, I was actually trying to mint one of these, just because I thought it'd be fun. And, uh, I couldn't get my transaction through. I didn't make it because there was such high demand for this. I think there are a lot of reasons for this, but like, uh, tell us about the story and what happened earlier this week.

• 1:22:52David Hoffman?

  Yeah, Mila Kunis, Ashen Kutcher, Vitalik Buterin, and a few other big names out of the Hollywood space. All, they produce like these animated short videos, and if you want to watch these, you have to own a Stoner Cat. And Stoner Cat, I think there's like 13,000 of them or something, uh, you know, generative, uh, uh, cats. Uh, and, you know, pretty typical NFT project, except for the fact that it's backed by these big, big name celebrities. Uh, two people out of That 70's Show, which was one of my favorite shows. Uh, and gas spiked to like 600 Gwei, because everyone was aping in all at the same time. Uh, the, this, uh, the, the sale was delayed by 24 hours because they had a bug in getting the sale contract out the door. So they delayed it by 24 hours.

• 1:23:35David Hoffman?

  And then because everyone was aping in at all the same time, there were so many failed transactions. So there was something like, I think like, uh, over a hundred thousand dollars in cumulative burnt ETH.

• 1:23:47Ryan Sean Adams?

  I saw a report where it was like $750,000, David, of burnt ETH wasted sale transactions. Yeah. 750k.

• 1:23:55David Hoffman?

  Oof, that's a, that's a large number of literally burnt money that went straight to the miners. So the miners were really happy. That kinda makes me concerned about like the genesis of this NFT like event. Because like, it had a bug in the, in, in the day, and for one day, so they kicked the sale out of the day. And then a lot of people got burnt trying to buy these things to like, not really starting off with a good impression. But I mean, we'll see these, we now have Ashen Kutcher.

• 1:24:19Ryan Sean Adams?

  Insane demand though, right?

• 1:24:20David Hoffman?

  Sorry?

• 1:24:21Ryan Sean Adams?

  Like insane demand. I mean, that's a story in itself.

• 1:24:25David Hoffman?

  There were, that was one of two NFT drops that had insane demand. They were not even covering the second one. But, but that day, there were two day, there were two events, two NFT drops that spiked gas like 600 Gwei.

• 1:24:36Ryan Sean Adams?

  I was just like, can we start doing NFT launches on Layer 2, please? Like, when can we start doing that? Let's just see that.

• 1:24:42David Hoffman?

  Right. Listen to Bankless. Come on, Mila. Listen to Bankless.

• 1:24:47Ryan Sean Adams?

  Come on, Bankless. We'd love to talk to you, Mila. Coca-Cola creates its first collection of brand-inspired NFTs. Coca-Cola, like, that is an American classic brand. That's a Warren Buffett stock. Now they're doing NFTs. Probably not Buffett-approved.

• 1:25:02David Hoffman?

  Probably not.

• 1:25:02Ryan Sean Adams?

  What's the big deal about this? Is it just Coca-Cola?

• 1:25:05David Hoffman?

  Yeah, it's just Coca-Cola. Coca-Cola is now making NFTs on Ethereum, picking the right blockchain. So that's nice. And I mean, when Coca-Cola, like, one of America's biggest brands ever, issues NFTs, it's really legitimizing of the infrastructure. So, cool. We just got a little bit more legitimate today, guys.

• 1:25:22Ryan Sean Adams?

  Also, the auction is donated to the Special Olympics International. So, kind of cool that they're doing that as well. David, People Pleaser. And you remember, we had People Pleaser, you had People Pleaser on the podcast, wrote an article about her Uniswap art. Now her digital art is on the front page of Fortune Magazine. This is the digital version, and it's really bringing crypto culture, I think, into mainstream acceptance. I see Crypto Punk. I see some other things, unicorns and such.

• 1:25:50David Hoffman?

  Oh, hang on. That's not just a normal Crypto Punk. That's Santiago Santos. That's his Crypto Punk. We also got the Bantag Bunny right here. We got Crypto Dog as well. We got, I think that's Loom Dart in the, that you can't see with the Pepe, with the orange cap. We got Tetranode on the DJ station. We got the Kobe Bitcoin glasses. And there's gonna be a few other people. Maybe that's Chainlink God? Maybe? Is that who that is?

• 1:26:18Ryan Sean Adams?

  It's a green frog. I know that.

• 1:26:19David Hoffman?

  Then we got the People Pleaser stars on the wall. Yeah, there's just a bunch of little Easter eggs here. Oh, look, there's the fractional logo from even earlier in the show. There's a Ledger right there. There's the Compound logo, because shout out Robert Leschner. So, yeah, there's a bunch of little hidden gems. And so we have actual crypto Twitter, crypto culture people on the front page of Fortune Magazine. So, nice job, and congrats to People Pleaser.

• 1:26:44Ryan Sean Adams?

  That's super cool. Guys, not too much Bitcoin stuff, but I think all of the Bitcoin information is probably tied up in the regulatory discussion that we want to have. There's a lot of regulatory discussion in in Washington this week. So let's start with this. Elizabeth Warren, she called crypto coders shadowy super coders.

• 1:27:05David Hoffman?

  Shadowy super coders. She would think of us like that, huh?

• 1:27:09Ryan Sean Adams?

  I just, I was like, why do you have to make it sound so cool, Elizabeth Warren? You're just gonna get more people to do it. Shadowy super coders? So did you say, did you see some crypto companies, David, they started like changing the job, their job post descriptions to shadowy super coder?

• 1:27:24David Hoffman?

  No, this is, this is perfect crypto culture, just taking lemons and turning it into lemonade.

• 1:27:29Ryan Sean Adams?

  Can I read her quote here? I'm gonna read her quote. "Instead of leaving our financial system at the whims of giant banks, crypto puts the system at the whims of some shadowy, faceless group of super coders and miners, which doesn't sound better to me." She's making the case against crypto in this hearing. A lot of that, a lot of that this week.

• 1:27:50David Hoffman?

  And then all of crypto Twitter turned it into one gigantic meme.

• 1:27:53Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah. She also sent this letter to Janet Yellen, so Treasury Secretary, and I won't read the whole letter, obviously. It will be available for you in the show notes, but I want to highlight this, "Risks from decentralized finance." Okay, she also tweeted this letter out and she called it, "DeFi refers to a fast-growing and highly opaque corner of the crypto landscape."

• 1:28:17David Hoffman?

  If I had my soundboard, I'd be hitting the buzzer right now.

• 1:28:20Ryan Sean Adams?

  Sir, highly opaque. This whole thing is called open finance. The traditional banking system is highly opaque. That's why we have open finance. That's why we are building a new system. She says, "Given the participants and project developers may remain anonymous, DeFi could present severe financial stability risks." So making the case that crypto could destabilize the traditional financial markets and wreck everything. I'm just kind of like, who's asking for this? I don't, I don't understand if this is a narrative that some politicians are grabbing on and like there's like anti crypto is, is, I don't know. There must be some contingent of the population just.

• 1:29:04Ryan Sean Adams?

  Likes it, just likes hearing about this because it's not actually going to deliver any results for the things the American people care about to be anti crypto in this way. I do not understand it. And it's also coming from a very misinformed view, right? I mean, we just had index index co-op on. They have their entire financial statement, everything they do, it's on chain.

• 1:29:25David Hoffman?

  Right.

• 1:29:25Ryan Sean Adams?

  Visible.

• 1:29:25David Hoffman?

  Live updating.

• 1:29:26Ryan Sean Adams?

  Transparent. This is not opaque, live updating, like a 10K every, every six seconds. You get a 10K report. You could query it from anywhere. Like, this is a regulator's, this is a regulator's dream. I don't understand.

• 1:29:40David Hoffman?

  Right.

• 1:29:41Ryan Sean Adams?

  Like, they should want to build the entire American financial system on open finance. They have access to see everything. And individual investors have access to see everything. I don't understand, David. What's going on?

• 1:29:54David Hoffman?

  This is, it's just so easy to just refute all of this. And it like, if you scroll up just a little bit, so I can see the rest of that paragraph. It just, it just shows Elizabeth Warren's cards, right? An opaque financial market, which leads to stability risks. We are living in the, we have the most volatile crypto assets of all time. And it's the most, and everything works regardless of that. We are built for stability. It's the whole point of over collateralization. We are built for transparency. And so this is how you know that Elizabeth Warren doesn't give a flying F about what is true about this industry, but she's trying to paint it into an image. She's trying to give it

• 1:30:36David Hoffman?

  a branding, which it does not have, and is completely and fundamentally the opposite of what is actually true. And all like, all of my family loves Liv Warren. I didn't vote for her. I was a Bernie bro, and then I was a Yang guy, but I would have, she would have been, she would have been third. Except every time she opens her mouth about crypto, it's just dead wrong. And so like, I finally feel resonance with like, these ultra libertarians who just get frustrated about politicians coming into their industry tinkering around about shit they don't know about. Like, get out of my industry. You don't know, I know more than you, Elizabeth Warren. I know more than you. Get out. Stop. Sorry.

• 1:31:16Ryan Sean Adams?

  We have some more takes on that, by the way, because I think regulatory is definitely a, like, There's a lot of fun over the past few weeks about this. So some more takes in the take section. But before we get there, some other news for the week. The White House says crypto tax enforcement will help pay for this new massive bipartisan infrastructure bill. David, the biggest infrastructure bill in US history, I mean, the biggest ever that's been proposed in the world. There's a lot of support for this in Congress and crypto tax enforcement could pay for a portion of it. But unfortunately, do you know what this means? It means they are

• 1:31:55Ryan Sean Adams?

  potentially slipping in some reporting obligations into this infrastructure tax bill. So reporting obligations above and beyond what we have today. So if you sell crypto in the US, of course, that is a capital gain. And you have to treat that as you would any property, you know, stock, bond, real estate, whatever it may be, right? They want to go above and beyond this. And potentially, the wording of the legislation right now, again, this is not passed, this is like draft legislation still, is that even wallets, David, might have to report out the tax obligations of wallet users, potentially even maybe DeFi exchanges would

• 1:32:38Ryan Sean Adams?

  need to report this stuff out. Like, some of this is the way it's worded, it's not even practical.

• 1:32:43David Hoffman?

  It's not nonsensical.

• 1:32:44Ryan Sean Adams?

  It's nonsensical. No one can do it. But there's definitely a target to pay for this infrastructure bill. And they think they could raise $28 billion from the crypto industry with some of this, like, it's not even the taxes that are so much the issue, it's the nonsensical reporting, the methodology, nonsensical reporting obligations. I thought Anthony Sazano had a had a good take here. Explain this meme.

• 1:33:10David Hoffman?

  Oh, yeah. So it's the classic Scooby Doo, who's under the mask meme. And so first panel, we have, I don't know who this guy's name is, but he's the blonde guy.

• 1:33:21Ryan Sean Adams?

  The monster.

• 1:33:21David Hoffman?

  The, the.

• 1:33:22Ryan Sean Adams?

  Oh, no.

• 1:33:22David Hoffman?

  Yeah, the blonde, the preppy blonde guy, he's about to rip the mask off. And before he does, it's labeled infrastructure bill. And then he rips the mask off and under it is insane crypto regulations. That's how it's going to get paid for it.

• 1:33:35Ryan Sean Adams?

  It's not what we wanted.

• 1:33:36David Hoffman?

  Regulators, Elizabeth Warren, I know you're listening to this podcast. If you want to tax this industry and actually want to get the money out of it, you have to do it in ways that make sense. Otherwise, you're actually going to get even less taxes because you're just going to piss people off about how you can't, the way that you are asking them to report and be taxed is nonsensical. And so you're going to incentivize people to avoid doing the things you want them to do. You've got to make it easy for people to pay their taxes. You've got to do it the right way.

• 1:34:05Ryan Sean Adams?

  Totally agree. Totally agree. Thank God we have some people in Washington like Coin Center who are pushing back in this. So that Coin Center is like, I'd call them just a crypto lobby group. And this is how.

• 1:34:16David Hoffman?

  We all like them. Everyone likes them. We're friends with these guys.

• 1:34:18Ryan Sean Adams?

  This is how, this is how the, the bill making process like works in, in Washington. It's basically like, there'll be a section that pertains to a certain industry and the industry will, will get that section and they'll essentially advise legislators on how to change things, how to edit it, how to, how to make it more, I guess, palatable for the industry, right? This is what lobbying really is. And so Coin Center is up in the mix and they are trying to make sure that nonsensical crypto tax regulations don't get embedded in the bowels of this bill. Because this is an infrastructure bill, okay? You could either support that or not, but it's an infrastructure bill. It does not have anything to do with reporting requirements for crypto, or it shouldn't.

• 1:35:02Ryan Sean Adams?

  And it certainly shouldn't create, you know, nonsensical obligations. So we have folks like Jerry Brito from Coin Center pushing back on this and thank God we do. All right, David, we're going to burn through the rest of these really quick. The first is the Binance squeeze is ongoing. So FTX and Binance just removed their highest leverage ability. They used to have like 100x leverage, you could get on these exchanges to a maximum of 20x. It feels very much like they are trying to get on the good side of regulators with this move. Binance is also decreasing the daily withdrawal limits. So it used to be without KYC. Yeah. You could, you could withdraw two Bitcoin, up to two Bitcoin. Now it's. Like point zero six Bitcoin per day.

• 1:35:46David Hoffman?

  And they didn't even give a two week notice, which they usually did, which you know is how you is how you know.

• 1:35:51Ryan Sean Adams?

  End of an era.

• 1:35:52David Hoffman?

  The regulators are constricting on them. And to me, this means Binance is largely dead. Like, it's kind of why Binance was used in the first place as an anti KYC exchange.

• 1:36:00Ryan Sean Adams?

  They're a, yes, yes. And they're definitely a bank now, right?

• 1:36:03David Hoffman?

  Yeah, a hundred percent.

• 1:36:04Ryan Sean Adams?

  They're heading in that direction.

• 1:36:06David Hoffman?

  End of an era.

• 1:36:08Ryan Sean Adams?

  Definitely. Binance US IPO. This is also seems to be like another defensive posture. Binance is shrinking their non KYC withdrawal limits, as we mentioned, and maybe it's because they want to IPO in the US, which would be interesting. Also, this David, in China, there's a regulatory squeeze, Huobi, which was the largest Chinese exchange, as far as I know. They just dissolved all their Chinese entities. So they're no longer a Chinese company. I don't know where they're going. But this is as a result of the Chinese regulatory squeeze. So again, that theme back again. Do you want to talk about this? What's Robinhood doing, David?

• 1:36:47David Hoffman?

  Robinhood is trying to get into maybe DeFi, like all the DeFi products and services that we know, borrowing, lending and swapping. Robinhood's trying to get into that. Not too many details, but they said they are eyeing crypto lending and staking services. So cool. Ahead of its IPO as well.

• 1:37:04Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, ahead of their IPO. I think this is, they expect this to be a revenue generator for them. Speaking of IPOs, BlockFi is also pursuing plans to go public. Even as regulators close in. So we mentioned that last week, regulators kind of closing in, New Jersey. You know, called BlockFi interest accounts a security. Now they're planning to go to IPO, maybe in a defensive posture in some way. I'm not, I'm not sure exactly why. Let's talk about this last one, David. Goldman Sachs, they just applied for a DeFi ETF. Goldman Sachs, they're getting into DeFi. Good news or bad news?

• 1:37:37David Hoffman?

  Oh yeah, let's, let's find out what's in it. Oh wait, absolutely nothing. Like, there's zero crypto tokens in this DeFi ETF. Uh, and so, fail. Big fail.

• 1:37:48Ryan Sean Adams?

  What is, what is in it? I, I heard that the highest, the, the largest asset, like 7% of the ETF was actually Nokia.

• 1:37:54David Hoffman?

  Yeah, followed by like Facebook and then Google. It's basically they tasked some intern with finding any traditional equities company that has any sort of surface area to like crypto and blockchain Ethereum. And the intern did it and he still effed it up. And then now Goldman Sachs is marketing this DeFi product. Like, in the same week that Index Co-op and Bankless Dow launches the Bed Index, in my opinion, the best, going to be the best performing crypto index of all time. Uh, Goldman Sachs just completely flops with this DeFi ETF. Who do you think is going to build out the future?

• 1:38:27Ryan Sean Adams?

  To be fair, one thing I will say is they're actually using this, this, um, DeFi index right here from a company called, um, Solactive, I suppose. And this, this, these are the companies we mentioned. They could change this.

• 1:38:37David Hoffman?

  I don't care who it's from. They fucked it up.

• 1:38:39Ryan Sean Adams?

  They'll, they'll maybe change it. They'll maybe change it though. Uh, they might not go to market with this. They made it somewhat vague in their SEC filings, so I will say that. But yeah, absolutely embarrassing if they go to market with that. Guys, we're going to be back with the takes of the week and don't forget the meme of the week right after our sponsors.

• 1:38:57David Hoffman?

  When you shop for plane tickets, you probably use Kayak, Expedia, or Google to compare ticket prices. So why would you limit yourself to just one exchange when you trade crypto? When you make your trades, you want to make sure that you're getting the best possible price on your trade and that you aren't paying high gas costs that you could have otherwise avoided. That's why you should be using Matcha. Matcha routes your orders across all the various DeFi exchanges on Ethereum, Polygon, Binance Smart Chain, and gives you the best possible prices without taking any commission. Matcha has smart order routing that splits your order across multiple liquidity sources if Matcha sees that it gets you better pricing. Trading on Matcha is super easy because it pools the liquidity for me into a single, easy to use platform.

• 1:39:37David Hoffman?

  And that has even saved me multiple times from accidentally picking the wrong decks to trade on and accidentally getting a bad price. Matcha also allows for you to make limit orders on chain, so you can set and forget your DeFi trades, and they will go through automatically while you're away. New to Matcha is an integrated fiat on-ramp. You can purchase crypto directly with your credit or debit card and have that fiat be instantly traded for any token that has liquidity. When you're making a trade, head over to matcha.xyz/banklist and connect your wallet to start getting the best prices and most liquidity when you trade your crypto assets.

• 1:40:11David Hoffman?

  Arbitrum is an Ethereum scaling solution that is going to completely change how we use DeFi. If you've been using Ethereum for the past 12 months, you've probably noticed the high gas fees and the slow confirmation times that have been plaguing DeFi. Too many people want to use Ethereum, and it doesn't have enough capacity for all of us. That's where Arbitrum comes in. Arbitrum is a layer two to Ethereum, which means Arbitrum can increase Ethereum's throughput by orders of magnitude at a fraction of the cost of what we are used to paying. When interacting with Arbitrum, you can get the performance of a centralized exchange while tapping into Ethereum's level of security and decentralization. This is why people are calling this Ethereum's broadband moment, where we get to add performance onto decentralization and security. If you're a developer and you want to save on gas costs

• 1:40:55David Hoffman?

  and make an overall better experience for your users, go to developer offchainlabs.com to get started building on Arbitrum. If you're a user, keep an eye out for your favorite DeFi apps building on Arbitrum. Arbitrum has been working with over 300 teams, including Ethereum's top infrastructure projects, and will be opening up to all users shortly. There are so many apps coming online to Arbitrum, so you may want to pack your bags in preparation for the great migration to the Arbitrum Layer 2. To keep up to speed with Arbitrum, follow them on Twitter @Arbitrum and join their Discord.

• 1:41:29Ryan Sean Adams?

  All right, guys, we are back with some of the hot takes of the week. David, let's start here. This was from a comment Mark Zuckerberg made. "Facebook," he says, "is becoming a metaverse company." That's interesting in and of itself, but what's this take from Claire Silver?

• 1:41:45David Hoffman?

  Yeah, in 2014, Facebook acquires Oculus VR. In 2020, Facebook released a beta for Facebook Horizon, a world creation system for Oculus. And in 2021, Facebook says they are transitioning into a metaverse company. Now, the word metaverse, I think, is, it depends on who you ask, they'll define it differently. I think metaverse in this context is being more closely associated with like Ready Player One type of a world. But that very world is very much synonymous with owning assets and digital assets. And so it's very, very proximate to a lot of the NFT conversations that we have in this industry. And so there's a take here is like, ooh, how do we want our metaverse to be constructed? Do we want it constructed on open source permissionless software?

• 1:42:28David Hoffman?

  Or do we want it constructed by Mark Zuckerberg?

• 1:42:32Ryan Sean Adams?

  Well, I mean, I know you've seen Ready Player One, right? Right? Like, there are all of these tokens, money, collectibles in Ready Player One, items, all of these things. And so they have to be registered somewhere because they're digital property with real value. And so you only have, like, I guess maybe three places that you could register this. One, with some sort of a digital version of a nation state, right? Or two, it's the property of the companies. It's like Facebook is the, you know, the property management system, essentially a property registry. Or it's a credibly neutral, permissionless system, right? Like, I don't think the nation state is going to come up with a digital property rights system on the internet.

• 1:43:16Ryan Sean Adams?

  Facebook certainly would and can, but like, do we want them to? My God, Zuckerberg already knows everything about us. Like, do we want him holding the keys to all of the assets, all the digital assets?

• 1:43:30David Hoffman?

  Sounds pretty dystopic.

• 1:43:32Ryan Sean Adams?

  It does. I think those are the choices, though. Good take. All right. Let's go to this one. DeFi regulation. This is from Rune Christensen on the topic we were just talking about earlier this week in the news section. Why don't you take this, David?

• 1:43:47David Hoffman?

  Yeah, he says, "If the US bans or seriously interferes with the innovation happening in DeFi, it will be an own goal 10 times worse than China cracking down on DIDI, which paralyzed innovation." Do you know what DIDI is?

• 1:44:01Ryan Sean Adams?

  I don't, actually.

• 1:44:02David Hoffman?

  Oh, I don't. Okay. Rune continues, "DeFi today is the most rapidly innovating sector in tech and most of that innovation is US-centric." What Rune is basically saying is that DeFi is like the last bastion of permissionless innovation for the US financial system in stark contrast with what's going on with the Chinese bank digital currency. I'm going to write an article about this because my brain's been chewing on it, but there's a conversation to be had about how many, just light years ahead, the Chinese CBDC is ahead of anything the US is doing or even understands itself to be doing. While China marches ahead with this super innovative new product, and so is DeFi, the United States is just floundering, like doing-

• 1:44:46Ryan Sean Adams?

  Status quo. It's doing nothing.

• 1:44:48David Hoffman?

  It's not even doing nothing. It's going backwards, like hindering its biggest ally. And that is why Rune is calling this bad regulation around DeFi could be the United States' own goal. They need DeFi to combat the Chinese bank digital currency, yet they are trying to tax it in these weird, nonsensical ways.

• 1:45:08Ryan Sean Adams?

  It's absolutely insane, and I couldn't agree more with this take, David. And you absolutely should write that article because it maddens me. Like, the US has a real shot here, and free, open, permissionless systems have a real shot here to pull ahead. And Rune's right, a lot of this has been built in the US. There's a hotbed for DeFi innovation. And if the US regulators and those in government start to strangle, like choke out this industry, what are they doing? Squandered opportunity, missed opportunity, just completely hijacking, you know, basically our generation, future generations. So I totally agree. David, crypto economies are booming right now. Crypto gaming economies,

• 1:45:51Ryan Sean Adams?

  I should say, and this is take from Token Terminal that only crypto enables in-game economies. So revenue for Axie Infinity was 1.2 billion. That's annualized for the last 30 days. Remember Candy Crush, 1.2 billion. That was first realized in 2020. So the users for Axie are 600,000. Users for Candy Crushed are 237 million. Revenue per user for Axie is 2,000 per user. Revenue per user for Candy Crush, $4.4.

• 1:46:25David Hoffman?

  You know where the differences in those numbers comes from? Is because the Axie users gets that revenue.

• 1:46:31Ryan Sean Adams?

  They get the revenue. GDP. Economies have GDP.

• 1:46:34David Hoffman?

  Exactly. Right. Where a Candy Crush, that just goes to the corporate holdings.

• 1:46:39Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, it's super cool. I can't wait to see what's gonna happen in crypto gaming in the future. David, this is take from Anthony Sisano. ETH is digital oil, and then he lists a table with the market cap of all of these commodities, including oil, which, price per unit, $65. Market cap of, I guess that's 107, that's gonna be, okay, that's gonna be billion. So it's 107 trillion. No, that's 107 billion.

• 1:47:07David Hoffman?

  No, that's 107,000 billion.

• 1:47:11Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yes, 107,000 billion, I guess.

• 1:47:14David Hoffman?

  That's weird. I don't know. Look at the chart. Just look at the chart.

• 1:47:17Ryan Sean Adams?

  Look at the chart. So if, if, the bottom line is, if ETH price were the same market cap of oil, ETH price would be $932,000, which is quite impressive.

• 1:47:32David Hoffman?

  I just overall enjoy the comparison of Ether to other commodities. You know, one of three ways to value Ether is as of a commodity, and even that's only one of three ways, it's still so incredibly undervalued compared to other commodities, at least in Ethereum's current form. So, you know, we got a long way to go before Ether starts to get up there with the rest of the commodities.

• 1:47:55Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, I like that take and I don't want to take it too seriously because that's probably just the take is what you said, but I also think that like Ether is more the money and block space, Ethereum block space is more the commodity. So I get the analogy, but also like ETH is not oil, ETH is money. Ethereum block space is oil.

• 1:48:15David Hoffman?

  But the value of the block space is instantiated in Ether, though.

• 1:48:18Ryan Sean Adams?

  There you go. There you go. I'll buy that. All right, David, it's that time, man. What are you excited about this week?

• 1:48:25David Hoffman?

  Hey, I'm like trying to make lemons out of lemonade. I guess I've said that three times in the show, but like, hey, I got coronavirus, but I got the coronavirus after I got the vaccine. And so like, once I come out of this and once I come out of quarantine, I'm going to have the vaccine and the antibodies. I'm basically going to be Superman. And so once I'm done with it, once with my quarantine time, I'm going to be stoked to go back into the real life and travel the world even more protected.

• 1:48:50Ryan Sean Adams?

  There you go.

• 1:48:51David Hoffman?

  But yeah, specifically in that order is the right order to do things. First, the vaccine and then getting the antibodies. I don't recommend the alternative order.

• 1:48:59Ryan Sean Adams?

  I'm just glad you're feeling okay. Yeah, that could have been brutal. Yeah.

• 1:49:02David Hoffman?

  Ryan, what are you excited about?

• 1:49:03Ryan Sean Adams?

  I'm excited about EIP 1559.

• 1:49:06David Hoffman?

  Shocker.

• 1:49:06Ryan Sean Adams?

  Look, we are a week away. Look, it's by the time people are listening to this will be like six days away from EIP 1559, maybe five days away from EIP 1559, and it's finally happening. So we are burning ETH, we are entering the ultrasound money era. This is the first part of that era where we start to burn ETH. The one thing I've, I've thought was missing from Ethereum this entire time was not like the community, not like the product market fit. We've had all of those things. It's been monetary policy, issuance policy of Ethereum. What does the issuance policy look like in the future? That is the one thing, in my opinion, David, that has prevented Ethereum and ETH the asset from gaining mind share as a store of value, popular mind shares as a store of value. Well, now it's getting

• 1:49:51Ryan Sean Adams?

  fixed. Now it's getting changed. We're going to have a monetary policy that creates ultrasound money out of ETH the asset. And the first step of that is EIP 1559. So look, ultrasound summer, it's kicking off this summer. Then we get the merge, which drops proof of work issuance. We get an issuance reduction of like 4%. And it's like, it's all coming together, but it's finally happening. That's why I'm excited. EIP 1559 is the biggest Ethereum event, certainly since staking and the beacon chain launched. But in a way, it's different than that. I'm not gonna say it's bigger than that, but it is almost as important, maybe just as important as that, I would say.

• 1:50:32David Hoffman?

  Yeah. And to rally off of that, I'm also excited for all the cool numbers and metrics and just the data we get to look at due to EIP 1559.

• 1:50:42Ryan Sean Adams?

  Burn data?

• 1:50:43David Hoffman?

  Yeah, burn data. Yeah. I wrote about this forever ago in my, the last final puzzle piece to Ethereum's monetary policy. Not only do we get ETH burn rate, we get the ETH burn to issue ratio, just so many new metrics like unlock for us to like to be able to talk about and digest. And the more things like that, the more real it becomes. And so that's what I'm excited about, about what you're excited about.

• 1:51:07Ryan Sean Adams?

  All right, man. I know we're both excited about that. So, all right, let's talk about this. Meme of the week. What are we looking at, David?

• 1:51:13David Hoffman?

  Uh, we got, I actually don't know the movie. This came out of Chief Culturist, Michael, uh, Hillary Duff. Well, yeah, but what's the movie?

• 1:51:20Ryan Sean Adams?

  Uh, I don't know. It's a movie where she's a twin, I think.

• 1:51:22David Hoffman?

  I don't know. The Chief Culturist, Michael Wong over at Bankless, he, he understands things way beyond even we do at sometimes. But this is Hillary Duff, holding hands with, I think, who is also Hillary Duff. And it's Ethereum, holding hands with Ethiopia, because Ethereum is an inclusive community. And if we get branded with Ethiopia as Ethiopia, we're going to run with it. So Ethereum, best friends with Ethiopia.

• 1:51:47Ryan Sean Adams?

  Coming up next is our Moment of Zen, featuring a song about super fizz from the ETH stakers community.

• 1:52:06Speaker 02

  This is the story of Super Fizz And how he tried to get a stoner cat And with his snap, blew in the gas limit He lost thirteen thousand dollars, just like that Stoner cats, stoner fella Super Fizz, Substream This is the story of Super Fizz Who knows all about a theory on And how he blames no one but himself For, for what he's done Stoner cats, stoner fella Super Fizz, Substream

• 1:52:51Speaker 02

  Stoner cats, stoner cat Super Fizz, Substream Super Fizz is surprisingly chill For having just lost all that money Roll with the punches, sometimes you get wrecked And then you have to tell your sweetheart, honey, oh

• 1:53:15Speaker 02

  Oh no

• 1:53:19Speaker 02

  Oh

• 1:53:22Speaker 02

  Oh no