She Cheated on Me and Gave Me an STI

On today’s episode, we hear about: A guy wondering how to leave his toxic girlfriend A wife struggling with being second in her husband’s sex life A woman who feels like her husband is holding her back Next Steps: 📞 Ask John a question! Call 844-693-3291 or send us a message. 📚 Building a Non-Anxious Life 📝 Anxiety Test 📚 Own Your Past, Change Your Future ❓ Questions for Humans Conversation Cards 💭 John’s Free Guided Meditation 🤘🏼 The Dr. John Delony Show Merch Connect With Our Sponsors: Get 10% off your first month of BetterHelp. Get up to 40% off with code DELONY at Cozy Earth. Get 20% off when you join DeleteMe. Visit Hallow for a 90-day free trial. Visit Helix Sleep for special offers! Explore Poncho Outdoors! Get 25% off your order at Thorne. Explore More From Ramsey Network: 🎙️ The Ramsey Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights 🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show 💰 George Kamel 🪑 Front Row Seat with Ken Coleman 📈 EntreLeadership Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:05Speaker 00

  I met the girl that I thought I was gonna marry, but as time went on, she ended up sleeping with another guy in the same night and she ended up giving me general herpes for life and she was saying that the reason she cheated on me or whatever is because

• 0:19Dr. John Delony?

  Bro, listen.

• 0:20Speaker 00

  I wasn't there for her.

• 0:21Dr. John Delony?

  Listen, stop.

• 0:26Dr. John Delony?

  What up, what up, what up? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show, taking your calls on your mental and emotional health and your relationships and whatever you've got going on in your life. Go to johndeloney.com/ask, A-S-K, and please, please, please hit the subscribe button wherever you are watching or listening to this show. All right, let's go down the street to Nashville, right here in town, and talk to Jared. Hey Jared, what's up dude?

• 0:54Speaker 00

  Hey, how's it going, Dr. John?

• 0:57Dr. John Delony?

  I'm good, man. What are you up to?

• 0:59Speaker 00

  Appreciate you taking my call. Oh, you know, just working, trying to get through all the troubles.

• 1:04Dr. John Delony?

  How can I help, man?

• 1:06Speaker 00

  So, I've got a huge, it's a huge backstory. I'm gonna try and keep it as concise as possible and line it up to the original question as much as possible here. I don't know really how to make it concise, but I'm gonna try, so bear with me. So, basically, I met the girl that I thought I was gonna marry about four years ago and it started off, you know, amazing and it was, it was a rough time in her life and I just wanted to be a friend, but, you know, things escalated very quickly, yada, yada, yada. And clearly, she, she wasn't ready for the relationship and I had told her, I was like,

• 1:51Speaker 00

  you know, I think we should hold off on this a little bit and take some time. But, as time went on, she, I didn't commit to her in like the first two months, because I'd never had a girlfriend before, and I was scared and I didn't want to bring any pain or anything onto her because of how damaged she was already. And then, what happened was, she ended up sleeping with another guy in the same night and she ended up giving me general herpes for life and that kinda broke me as a man and...

• 2:22Dr. John Delony?

  Just as a person? Forget as a man, you don't have to gender it, that's just awful.

• 2:27Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:28Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 2:28Speaker 00

  And, uh, so I've been living with that. That broke me and then it kinda killed the relationship because of what happened. She lied about it for months, acting like she had no idea of what went on. She felt bad initially and then now it's like all the blame shifted on me to like a year and a half or so after that, uh, after she.

• 2:48Dr. John Delony?

  Wait, why, why, why are you still talking to her?

• 2:53Speaker 00

  I don't know, man. I, I guess I'm just like sitting here like holding on to the hope that was. I'm not sure.

• 3:00Dr. John Delony?

  What a hope, dude.

• 3:04Dr. John Delony?

  Like I, I, I mean, y'all were together for two months and she slept with another dude and the same night she was with you and gave you a sexually transmitted infection like forever.

• 3:17Speaker 00

  Yeah. I just feel so low. Like I'm just, I'm just dead inside. And then it just like every time something good happens, things get good for a couple of months and then she like, she talks to another man and it's just like.

• 3:31Dr. John Delony?

  Hey, I'm done talking about her. Where is your

• 3:37Dr. John Delony?

  self-respect?

• 3:39Speaker 00

  I don't know.

• 3:40Dr. John Delony?

  Like this idea, like I care and love this man named Jared in Nashville, Tennessee, in my neighborhood. I love this guy. I respect him. Where is, where is that voice?

• 3:51Speaker 00

  I don't know. I like, I, whenever all this stuff happened, like it just keeps pouring salt in my wounds. I'm so down that I don't even.

• 3:58Dr. John Delony?

  You keep taking a wound and you unbandage it and you hand it right back to her and she's like, okay. And she pours salt back into it.

• 4:07Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 4:08Dr. John Delony?

  It's like you have a, you have a paper sack with a rattlesnake in it. You can't get mad at the snake. That's what it does. It bites and you keep putting your hand back in there. That's who she is. She's established that over and over and over again.

• 4:21Speaker 00

  Cause I'm just, I just hope and pray that she changes and then it just keeps coming back.

• 4:24Dr. John Delony?

  You don't have that power. You can't change her.

• 4:29Dr. John Delony?

  She has established who she is.

• 4:33Speaker 00

  And she was saying that the reason she cheated on me, or whatever, is because

• 4:37Dr. John Delony?

  Bro.

• 4:38Speaker 00

  I wasn't there for her.

• 4:39Dr. John Delony?

  Listen, listen, stop. I mean, you can keep saying that. You can keep living this world if you wish.

• 4:47Dr. John Delony?

  I can't help you.

• 4:49Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 4:51Dr. John Delony?

  You're gonna have to decide at a root level, I'm worth more than this.

• 4:57Dr. John Delony?

  And by the way, there are people that will be with you forever, that will love you, even though you have herpes.

• 5:06Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 5:06Dr. John Delony?

  You're not stuck with her forever, a person who...

• 5:11Dr. John Delony?

  Man, you're worth so much more than this, dude.

• 5:20Speaker 00

  I just poured so much into everything. I just don't want to give up.

• 5:23Dr. John Delony?

  You haven't. You haven't poured any... What have you poured into this? It was two months and she slept with another guy and gave you an SDI. Like, I don't understand. What have you poured into this?

• 5:33Speaker 00

  We've been together for four years now. We live together. She has a five-year-old daughter, which isn't mine. And I'm basically like her dad. And it's just really tough.

• 5:44Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, well, how can I help, man?

• 5:48Speaker 00

  And then, so whenever she cheated on me, whenever she wants this, that, and the other. And so, and we're stuck in a little trailer, so I started day trading or whatever, and I made a ton of money. And then I put more salt on the relationship because I lost $60,000 after I had made $100,000. So now she hates me for that. So it's just like, I feel like she's just punishing me because she's mad at me. But because she, whenever she cheated on me, or whatever, these other dudes have more to offer than me right now. And it's just like, she says that she loves me and cares for me more than anything in the world. But then it's like, it doesn't make any sense because it's like, somebody that loves you would not do this stuff to you.

• 6:28Dr. John Delony?

  Jer, Jer.

• 6:29Speaker 00

  Everything on me.

• 6:30Dr. John Delony?

  Jer, how can I help you, man?

• 6:36Speaker 00

  I just, I don't know, I don't have the courage to leave and I don't know what, what, what to do. Like, I'm, I wanna fix this badly.

• 6:43Dr. John Delony?

  It is an unfixable situation.

• 6:47Dr. John Delony?

  She's an untenable human. And you keep making dumb decision after dumb decision. And I say this as, I say this as lovingly as I can.

• 7:00Dr. John Delony?

  Living in a trailer and day trading

• 7:05Dr. John Delony?

  is, is not the path out, man.

• 7:12Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 7:13Dr. John Delony?

  And if you have somebody who loves and cares about you, they won't sleep with other people.

• 7:19Dr. John Delony?

  They won't beat you up when you're down.

• 7:26Speaker 00

  And I guess she's turned everything on me to the point where I think I'm the problem and it's like, I'm sitting here questioning what's real and what's not, like I've lost my mind.

• 7:34Dr. John Delony?

  Yes, you have. And I'm trying to give it back to you and you don't want it.

• 7:41Dr. John Delony?

  You're so transfixed with this woman

• 7:45Dr. John Delony?

  that you've given her common sense, you've given her your health, you've given her your soul, you're a live-in babysitter for her, you're a meal ticket for her, and you're a punching bag for her.

• 7:57Speaker 00

  I just can't understand why somebody would do that.

• 8:00Dr. John Delony?

  She's not a good person.

• 8:07Dr. John Delony?

  You're, you're trying to figure out an unsolvable problem.

• 8:15Dr. John Delony?

  And every time you stick around to solve, try to solve the problem, you just get beat up more and more and more and more. It's like you're in a boxing ring, but your hands are tied behind your back and the boxer's just hitting you. And you're like, I don't get to figure out why I'm getting punched. And the whole time you're trying to figure, he's just wailing on you.

• 8:38Dr. John Delony?

  And the wisest thing to do is just get out of the ring, man.

• 8:41Speaker 00

  And she says that I do that to her because I'm like, all this sadness and depression has just turned into anger and I can't, I can't, like, I can't hold it back anymore. I'm so, I'm so hurt, I'm so upset.

• 8:53Dr. John Delony?

  Hold on, Jerry, that's not true.

• 8:56Dr. John Delony?

  You can.

• 9:00Dr. John Delony?

  But again, going back to the rattlesnake analogy, that's like the rattlesnake biting you and blaming your hand for swelling up.

• 9:09Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 9:11Dr. John Delony?

  And having not handsome hands anymore.

• 9:16Dr. John Delony?

  And then you put your hand back in the bag,

• 9:19Dr. John Delony?

  try to pick up the snake again and it bites you again and then it blames you for getting stung.

• 9:25Dr. John Delony?

  Here's the thing, you know this. I'm not telling you anything you don't know.

• 9:31Dr. John Delony?

  I just can't-

• 9:32Speaker 00

  I just don't, I don't know what's making me not be able to walk away.

• 9:36Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, I don't know, man.

• 9:39Dr. John Delony?

  I don't know.

• 9:41Speaker 00

  It's like I imagined my whole life with this girl and then it's like every time things start to get better, it just gets tore all open again.

• 9:49Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. You get to decide. You're in a very toxic, toxic, toxic situation.

• 9:59Dr. John Delony?

  In medicine, there's a rule that if we give somebody an intervention, if we give somebody a medicine and they get worse,

• 10:09Dr. John Delony?

  even if we don't know why that medicine is making them worse, we stop the making them worse part, even before we know why.

• 10:19Dr. John Delony?

  And so what I'm telling you is, in the middle of a fistfight when someone's beating you down, that's not the moment to figure out why the punches are coming. You have to get away from the fight.

• 10:31Speaker 00

  Yeah, and then it's like, I'm consumed by this stuff all day long because I'm like,

• 10:35Dr. John Delony?

  Of course you are!

• 10:36Speaker 00

  What is she doing? Where is she going? Why is she stopped here?

• 10:39Dr. John Delony?

  Here's the thing, brother, here's the thing, here's the thing, here's the thing. I cannot help you, dude, because you don't want to be helped right now. And that's okay.

• 10:47Dr. John Delony?

  That's okay.

• 10:48Speaker 00

  And I guess I can't understand why I don't want to be helped. Why am I acting in this way? Why am I?

• 10:54Dr. John Delony?

  I don't know. I, I, I mean, I don't know.

• 10:59Dr. John Delony?

  I don't have an answer for you, dude. You're not interested in that answer. What you're interested in is how you, can you figure out how to mold and shape yourself to stay in a situation with a very unhealthy person?

• 11:16Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 11:17Dr. John Delony?

  That's it.

• 11:19Speaker 00

  But now I'm unhealthy because of it. So now I don't know. Now I feel like I don't, I'm just scared.

• 11:28Dr. John Delony?

  Be scared of whatever. You're the one supporting this situation.

• 11:34Dr. John Delony?

  I don't know what you're more scared of, getting hurt again, getting cheated on again, getting another disease again, or being alone for the first time in several years. But here's the thing, dude, you've been alone forever.

• 11:50Dr. John Delony?

  You've been alone for a long, long time, man.

• 11:56Dr. John Delony?

  But also, I get it. I get it. I talk to people offline in your situation all the time, who are just so stuck in a toxic relationship, they can't see their way out of it. And I just have to tell you, I can't help you, man. Until you say, "I'm ready to get out. I'm ready to move. I'm ready to break free from this. I'm worth more than this." And it always starts from, "I'm worth not hurting. I'm at least worth that."

• 12:25Dr. John Delony?

  I'm at least worth not hurting. I will figure out why I'm in this toxic relationship. I'm gonna figure out why I'm attracted to it. I'm gonna figure out why, why, why. I'm gonna do that later. Right now, I'm gonna quit drowning. I'm gonna quit getting bit by the rattlesnake. That's gonna be number one.

• 12:46Dr. John Delony?

  When you're ready for that, my man, you call me, and I'll walk with you on the way out. And I'll sit with you during the loneliness times, and I'll talk to you and give you a roadmap for what comes next. But you're not there yet. And I'm just gonna ask you to make good choices, dude.

• 13:03Dr. John Delony?

  You are in control of your anger. You're in control of your rage. You're in control of what happens next. You get to make the next move. Not her, you.

• 13:15Dr. John Delony?

  It's your move. When we come back, a woman asks if it's wrong for her to want to be her husband's first choice over masturbation. We'll be right back. All right, if you're like me, you're in the middle of it. Summer is gone. We're in the fall now and the days are getting shorter. School is back in full swing. The Q4 work stresses are hitting hard and you and I both are wanting to numb out more and more. We have to be intentional about protecting our sleep because here's the truth. How we sleep is an incredibly large part of how well we all feel. When our body isn't rested, our minds can't reset. Sleep is one of the most important things we can do to stay mentally sharp, emotionally

• 14:00Dr. John Delony?

  ready, and able to show up for our families and for our workplaces. And this is why I'm always talking about the greatest mattresses on the planet, Helix mattresses. Helix builds mattresses made for you, not some generic, average sleeper. So whether you're a hot sleeper, or a side sleeper, or back sleeper, or somewhere in between, Helix designs mattresses around your needs. Yours. Get online and take the Helix Sleep Quiz. I did it. It takes like two minutes or so and they will match you with exactly the right mattress for you. And right now, my audience can get an exclusive 20% off their entire order during Helix's Extended Labor Day Sale. Go to helixsleep.com/deloney for 20% off site-wide.

• 14:45Dr. John Delony?

  That's helixsleep.com/deloney. And tell them you heard about Helix mattresses right here on this show. With Helix, better sleep starts right now. All right, let's go out to Alberta, Canada and talk to Lynn. What's up Lynn?

• 15:01Speaker 02

  Oh, hi. I'm so nervous.

• 15:05Dr. John Delony?

  It's all good. It's all good. I'm nervous too. I'm not very good at this, so we'll get to it together.

• 15:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, you say that all the time. You're good at it. It's just because this is such a private and taboo topic that nobody talks about that it's, I don't know who to talk to about it. So like I have an issue with, with my husband masturbating and feel like I'm, I'm just kind of left out. Like that he doesn't pick me at all.

• 15:30Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah. Tell me about it.

• 15:33Speaker 02

  Well, okay, a little backstory. We've been together since I was 16.

• 15:37Dr. John Delony?

  How old are you now?

• 15:38Speaker 02

  Got married at 18. I'm 48, so 30 years of marriage.

• 15:44Speaker 02

  Um, yeah, married at eighteen and when I was pregnant with our first kid, I had gone out for an event. I said, I'll be about an hour and I came home and in our bedroom I found um a porn tape open and I was like, what, what is this? And he goes, oh, I guess I left that out. And I was like, I was only gone an hour. Like, like you couldn't wait? And I guess I was just so naive. I thought that once you were in a committed sexual relationship, you just didn't do that anymore. I was just so surprised.

• 16:14Dr. John Delony?

  You didn't look at pornography or masturbate?

• 16:18Speaker 02

  Him, you say, or me?

• 16:20Dr. John Delony?

  No, I'm saying like you didn't know that that you thought once, once we're married and we're having sex together, that all that just goes away?

• 16:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 16:26Dr. John Delony?

  Oh, awesome.

• 16:27Speaker 02

  I did.

• 16:28Dr. John Delony?

  Awesome. Okay. Very cool. Now we're, now we're on the same team.

• 16:30Speaker 02

  I did. I totally thought that.

• 16:32Dr. John Delony?

  Hey, it's, hey, you're not, you are not the only one. You're not crazy. Okay? I'm just laughing at the data. So, no, I, I'm not, I'm not laughing at you at all. I'm laughing with you. So, yes, but you know.

• 16:43Speaker 02

  I'm like, well, I didn't. I went to him first if I was interested or wanted to. I just.

• 16:48Dr. John Delony?

  Right, right, right.

• 16:48Speaker 02

  Thought he would too.

• 16:50Dr. John Delony?

  Sure. Okay. So that was a long time ago then, huh?

• 16:53Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. Well, this is just the history. So I'm pregnant with my second kid and I had gone to bed early and I woke up at midnight and wondered why he wasn't in bed yet. I'm like, what's happening? And I walk out and I catch him and I was like, oh.

• 17:07Dr. John Delony?

  Watching, watching pornography again?

• 17:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 17:10Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 17:11Speaker 02

  Caught him in the act, red handed, if you know what I mean.

• 17:13Dr. John Delony?

  I got it. Yep.

• 17:16Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 17:17Dr. John Delony?

  Busted.

• 17:17Speaker 02

  And I was like, well, you don't try to have sex with me. And I certainly didn't feel like he found me attractive when I was pregnant and he certainly wasn't going to say so because afterwards he goes, oh, I like this much better. I'm like, I knew it. Like I could tell. Body language is eighty percent of language. I could tell that you weren't interested in me. He goes, I don't know why. I just like this better.

• 17:37Dr. John Delony?

  He likes pornography better?

• 17:40Speaker 02

  He didn't like my body.

• 17:44Speaker 02

  When I was pregnant.

• 17:45Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. But when you said, "He told you, 'I like this better,' what did you mean? He liked pornography better than being with you?

• 17:53Speaker 02

  No, he would deny that. He, um, after I had the kids, he gave me a hug and said he liked my body better. When I wasn't pregnant. And so every time, I just kept thinking, "Is he doing it? Is he doing it?" And then, and he would hide it and keep it a secret. And then I thought, "You know, I'm gonna be open about this. Let's talk about this." And I asked him if he'd watch porn every time. He's like, "No, it's like, sometimes I would think of you. I'd watch a picture of you." And I just thought it was when I was away. Like, if I was gone for a couple of days, I'd come home and I'd say, you know, "Hey, did you masturbate?" And he's like, "Oh, just once." And then, my whole world just, it blew up about a year and a half ago.

• 18:36Dr. John Delony?

  What happened?

• 18:36Speaker 02

  We were in Mexico. We were in Mexico, and I was looking through his phone at pictures of Chicharito, and I found pictures of, of girls, like of women. Like, we had our younger, we had our 20-year-old son there and his friend, and they were trying to find girls. And I'm like, "Oh, how about that girl? How about that girl?" And I think he just kinda got caught up in it. But this picture, I was like, "That is definitely not a girl for our son." Like, what is this picture about? And he says, "Oh, I don't know. I don't remember." And I says, "Well, I'm gonna delete that." And then I said, "Give me your phone back. I wanna look at that picture again." And he goes, "I thought you deleted it." I said, "I did. I mean, you're trash." And he just reached across the bed and grabbed the phone out of my hand and says, "Don't look. You're just gonna make yourself more upset."

• 19:20Speaker 02

  And I was like, "What is happening right now?" Like, I picked him because he was different from all the other guys. I didn't want a guy who looked at porn, went to the strip clubs, looked at Playboy, drank a lot, smoked, did drugs. Like, this is not our value system, you know? And then I'm thinking, "Holy shit, like, maybe he's not happy. Maybe he's, he's, I'm not good enough." Everything would turn to a 180. I'm like, "I'm the one who's been unbelievably unhappy multiple times in this marriage. Not you. You've been solid and steady, and I've always done the work to fix it. Like, how am I gonna make this better?"

• 20:03Speaker 02

  And then to think that maybe he wasn't happy. And then after we got home, he says to me, I'm not unhappy. I'm not looking for somebody else. It's not in me to cheat. I, I don't know why I did it. I just got caught up. And it just felt like he had, felt like he was somebody I didn't know. And so we've been working hard over this last year and a half with counseling and stuff. And I'm just learning more and more that it, I could be at home. I could be at home sleeping and he would still go masturbate. And I'd say, well, if you, and he told, he admitted to me, he would use porn 99% of the time. And he says, I screwed up, didn't I, by telling you that? And I was like, no, I'm asking these questions. I want to know, I want you to be open and honest with me.

• 20:48Speaker 02

  You're just hiding so much stuff. And he admitted to lying to me about more than just this. He lies to me about everything.

• 20:54Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 20:55Speaker 02

  And I was like, did, did I, did I set this up? Like, was I too hard in the beginning, being like, this is not how I want our life to look like? I don't want you going out to the bars. I don't want you out drinking and spending all night. Like, we're married now, we're gonna have a family. I want you home. Like, did I, a part of me felt like I created an avenue for him to hide and sneak and lie. And then he said, like, to the counselor, he felt like, you know, the masturbating was just a habit. That he just, he, it was something you don't talk about.

• 21:26Dr. John Delony?

  Hey, Lynn, Lynn, let me interrupt you, okay? You're not crazy.

• 21:32Speaker 02

  He would never initiate sex with me.

• 21:34Dr. John Delony?

  Lynn, Lynn, Lynn, Lynn, Lynn, Lynn, Lynn, Lynn. You're not crazy.

• 21:40Dr. John Delony?

  Okay?

• 21:42Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 21:47Dr. John Delony?

  I don't know how to say this in a caring way. This hasn't never been about you. Other than you had a fantasy about the man you were with and you ignored signal after a signal after signal. And I think the part of this whole thing that you've lost trust in is you've lost trust in you, in your radar, in your ability to judge people.

• 22:11Speaker 02

  Huh.

• 22:12Dr. John Delony?

  This isn't about masturbation. This is about a husband with a-

• 22:15Speaker 02

  I know, I just grabbed a hold of this.

• 22:17Dr. John Delony?

  With a profound pornography addiction that has gone on for year after year after year after year after year.

• 22:32Dr. John Delony?

  It's not about you being pretty enough.

• 22:37Dr. John Delony?

  It's not about you being desirable enough.

• 22:45Dr. John Delony?

  It's about your husband being dead in his own skin. And making choice after choice for year after year to not seek aliveness inside his own skin, inside his own relationship, just taking the easy path out over and over and over again.

• 23:01Speaker 02

  And I know I can't make him do anything.

• 23:04Dr. John Delony?

  No, you can't.

• 23:05Speaker 02

  And I can't make him open up and talk to me.

• 23:08Speaker 02

  I'm begging for it, and he says, "I'm trying." And I said, "How? How? Like, I don't see it." I mean, you could be, you could be constantly still watching for him to masturbate and just telling me you're not, and I have no idea. And he says, "I'm not. I'm not anymore. I stopped. I'm not doing it, and it's no big deal."

• 23:24Dr. John Delony?

  Lynn, what have you put in place so that you can begin to reestablish trust?

• 23:36Speaker 02

  Like, isn't, like, looking at his phone and removing the tablet?

• 23:39Dr. John Delony?

  This is gonna sound, this is gonna sound harsh, but you're choosing misery right now.

• 23:44Dr. John Delony?

  You've exposed-

• 23:45Speaker 02

  I'm trying to figure out how to get out of it.

• 23:46Dr. John Delony?

  You've exposed a behavior. You've exposed the character of a person that you built a life with. You've also exposed that you repeatedly, over the years, ignored the fact that this guy was stepping out on you emotionally.

• 24:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 24:04Dr. John Delony?

  Over and over and over and over and over again. And you ignored it. And so you've also exposed that you've lost trust in yourself. Okay? All of this is true.

• 24:16Dr. John Delony?

  But continuing to have imaginary conversations and to spiral and to say, "I can't trust, I can't trust, I can't trust," all that is true, but it's a choice to stay miserable right this second.

• 24:27Dr. John Delony?

  Having you, here's what healing looks like, and I'm pissed off at your therapist for not giving this to you. He has to have a map, a roadmap that will reestablish trust for you. What does that look like?

• 24:41Speaker 02

  What does that look like?

• 24:42Dr. John Delony?

  That means no internet for six months in this house, period.

• 24:47Dr. John Delony?

  That means a flip phone.

• 24:50Dr. John Delony?

  That means no social media accounts, or I'm linked to every one of them and I have the passcodes to all of them. I don't know, you get to make it up. But whatever will allow you to reestablish trust. And then, he has to say out loud, here's what would reestablish life and joy and pleasure and play and a life worth living inside his own house.

• 25:18Dr. John Delony?

  And if he's not willing to do that, or he's willing to take you and your kids on y'all's vacation while he sits over here with pictures of 24-year-olds on his phone jerking off in the shower while y'all are out at the beach, that's his choice, but you get to decide whether I want to be a part of that or not. And that's a guy cashing out on the one precious life he has.

• 25:42Dr. John Delony?

  And that's you choosing to spin and spin and spin.

• 25:47Dr. John Delony?

  By just, your truck is stuck in the mud and you just got your foot on the gas. At some point, you gotta get on and just walk. I'm not gonna sit here and keep doing this. I'm just digging a deeper hole.

• 25:58Dr. John Delony?

  And nobody wants to be their husband's mother. Nobody wants to look at somebody's phone, but this is where we are. Because what else is the opportu... I mean, you're just gonna say, "I think you're doing this." He's gonna go, "No, I'm not." And you're gonna go, "Okay." And then you're gonna find out he is again.

• 26:13Speaker 02

  I'm like, "What else am I gonna find out?"

• 26:15Dr. John Delony?

  You know what you're gonna find out? You know what you're gonna find out.

• 26:22Dr. John Delony?

  Don't you?

• 26:28Speaker 02

  No, I don't know. What else you lying to me about? He says, "I can't think of anything right now." Like, he'll just lie about stupid things.

• 26:37Speaker 02

  And he lies to other people. I'm like, "Just because he doesn't want confrontation." I'm like, "You need to stop doing that. That is not how I live my life and that's not how I want you to live your life." I'm like, "I'm done letting go of all stuff."

• 26:48Dr. John Delony?

  But you've lived your life this way, your whole marriage with him.

• 26:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I do everything.

• 26:54Dr. John Delony?

  I know, but when you say, "I'm not, I don't live like this," you do.

• 27:00Speaker 02

  Well, I guess I don't make those choices to make those decisions and he does. And I guess, I'm just, I can guarantee that I'm gonna be disappointed. I'm always getting disappointed.

• 27:11Speaker 02

  I'm tired.

• 27:14Dr. John Delony?

  So here's the great scary terrifying question that all of us have to ask. What are you gonna do now?

• 27:23Speaker 02

  Well, I figure if I go back to, I guess this is just how he is. He's gonna be that quiet guy sitting on the couch, avoiding any confrontation, not standing up for anybody, especially me. And that's just the way he is, and I'm letting myself down because I'm letting go of him.

• 27:37Dr. John Delony?

  That's right.

• 27:38Speaker 02

  And I, I always follow through with my word, always.

• 27:43Speaker 02

  And I'm just so sad because everybody thinks he's the greatest thing ever. My kids love him, everybody in the community thinks he's this wonderful, outstanding guy. And I'm like...

• 27:51Dr. John Delony?

  Lynn, when are you gonna give...

• 27:52Speaker 02

  He doesn't show up for me.

• 27:53Dr. John Delony?

  When are you gonna show up for you?

• 27:57Speaker 02

  But then I'm doing it by myself, John.

• 27:59Dr. John Delony?

  You've been doing it by yourself.

• 28:01Speaker 02

  By myself.

• 28:02Dr. John Delony?

  You've been doing it by yourself.

• 28:05Speaker 02

  I know.

• 28:08Speaker 02

  I know, I'm always doing it by myself.

• 28:10Dr. John Delony?

  But you give your kids a vote, you give the community a vote, you give your neighborhood a vote, you give whatever women he's talking to a vote.

• 28:19Dr. John Delony?

  When are you gonna give Lynn a vote?

• 28:27Speaker 02

  Now.

• 28:29Dr. John Delony?

  When we get off this call, I want you to take out a piece of notebook paper, or go grab a paper off of the printer in your house, and write down, "Today Lynn gets a vote," and here's what that means.

• 28:43Dr. John Delony?

  If you lie again, you're out of my home.

• 28:47Dr. John Delony?

  You're gonna sit down and together, we're gonna tell our adult children about the last 25 or 30 years of our marriage.

• 28:58Dr. John Delony?

  If you look at pornography again...

• 28:59Speaker 02

  I would love it to be all out in the open.

• 29:00Dr. John Delony?

  Do what?

• 29:02Speaker 02

  I said, "I would love it to all be out in the open. Be transparent, you'll probably feel a lot better, honey, if you just get it all out."

• 29:12Dr. John Delony?

  Listen, you have to decide, Lynn, you have to decide.

• 29:17Dr. John Delony?

  I'm worth more than this. And this is not about masturbating.

• 29:23Dr. John Delony?

  It's not.

• 29:28Dr. John Delony?

  It's about you living in a ecosystem that

• 29:34Dr. John Delony?

  where you have continued to have blinders on and these blinders have kept you sort of ish safe. But the whole time you've known they're not safe.

• 29:48Dr. John Delony?

  And year after year and catching him and catching him and catching him. And when he lies out in public, you just brush it off, you ignore it, you don't call it out. When he lies at home and you know he's lying, when he lies to the kids, you just kind of move on. And every time you do this, you bury a part of yourself a little bit deeper and a little bit deeper and a little bit deeper.

• 30:11Dr. John Delony?

  You are right, you can't control him. You are right, you can't ever know for sure if he's cheating on you or whatever, you can't. The only thing you can decide is, I Lynn, am worth more than this. And here is what that means.

• 30:29Dr. John Delony?

  If he wants to remain married to me, here's what reestablishing trust will look like. Cause I'm not going to walk around every second of every day wondering if he's cheating on me. Wondering if he's spending our money somewhere. Wonder like, and by the way, this doesn't happen in a vacuum. I guarantee there's secret accounts somewhere or there's financial infidelity somewhere. I guarantee it. I guarantee you he's messaged people on social media and when you caught him, he probably went and deleted everything. But I guarantee that stuff is there, guaranteed.

• 30:57Dr. John Delony?

  I guarantee that this pornography problem, I don't, I don't think I could think of right now. Right, sure. That is not the response of a exhausted, fried man recommitted to his marriage, this is not.

• 31:13Dr. John Delony?

  That somebody got caught and is going to pat you on the head until this blows over like it always has Lynn. And you're going to have to decide, I'm done living like this. I don't care what the community thinks. I do care what my kids think, but they're going to know the truth. Not in an ugly gross way, but in an honest way. And my husband's going to have a path towards ending this marriage or my husband's going to have a path towards reestablishing trust. But I'm not just going to sit here with my foot on the gas in the mud, spinning a deeper and deeper and deeper hole.

• 31:44Dr. John Delony?

  And I know that sounds harsh, but that's just the reality that you find yourself in, Lynn.

• 31:50Dr. John Delony?

  So the next move is yours. And my hope is, for the first time in your adult life, you will choose Lynn. So that maybe you can choose your marriage.

• 32:03Dr. John Delony?

  It's your move. When we come back, a woman asks, what should she do if she feels betrayed by her husband?

• 32:12Dr. John Delony?

  This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Most of us are guilty of oversharing with the internets, or with the wrong person at one time or another. Or maybe you're just like me, and you're just a bit of an overshare all the time. And let's be honest, our entire culture is based on oversharing. Everyone is giving everyone else mental and emotional health advice, and some of it may be good, but a ton of it is nonsense. As fun as it can be to talk about everyday stuff with everyone all of the time, when you need real help with your relationships, with anxiety, depression, or other clinical issues, they may not have the right answers. You need real guidance from a licensed therapist who follows a strict code of conduct, and that's why I recommend reaching out to my friends at BetterHelp.

• 32:57Dr. John Delony?

  BetterHelp is the largest online therapy provider in the world. And that means no matter what you're facing, chances are, they've got someone who specializes in exactly the thing you're struggling with. And this is totally online, and it makes it easy to fit therapy into your busy schedule. To get started, just answer a few simple questions, nothing weird or scary, and they will connect you with a licensed therapist who fits your needs. Plus, if it's not the right fit, you can switch therapists at any time for no extra cost. BetterHelp has been matching people with therapists for over a decade, and their 4.9 rating shows they're really good at matching clients and therapists. So, talk it out with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com/deloney to get 10% off your first month.

• 33:41Dr. John Delony?

  That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P, dot com, slash, deloney.

• 33:47Dr. John Delony?

  Let's go to Raleigh, North Carolina, and talk to Mary Mary. What's up, Mary?

• 33:53Speaker 03

  Hi, Dr. John. How are you today?

• 33:56Dr. John Delony?

  I am just remarkable. How about you?

• 34:00Speaker 03

  Well, I'm honestly, I'm feeling a little overwhelmed. I've, uh, I've tried Google, my mom, my dog, so I'm hoping that you can give me a little bit more than them.

• 34:10Dr. John Delony?

  Have you not talked to a counselor or a friend?

• 34:13Speaker 03

  I have, so, and, uh, I'm actually in counseling right now.

• 34:19Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, good. I don't even know why you're calling, but I'm glad you called me after your pet, because sometimes pets can really help.

• 34:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, so, uh, uh, to give you, uh, some information about me, I'm a forty-three-year-old wife, um, and, uh, I've been married for just over ten years. And, uh, we've had a really, just a lot of things happen in our marriage that we have overcome. And, uh, but right now, I am struggling with feelings of betrayal toward my husband, um, and it's turned to animosity. And now we're at indifference, and, uh, I just don't feel like he's, um, helping out to the best of his ability as with, with the issues that we have in our home.

• 35:04Speaker 03

  And, um, he's been lying about little things, and it's just, uh, it's just hard to, hard to be successful in our home when I feel like he's the one helping us step back.

• 35:21Dr. John Delony?

  What, what are some things y'all have overcome together?

• 35:25Speaker 03

  So, um, my husband, when I met him, um, he was, uh, caring for his mother with dementia. Um, he also has an autistic son, and, uh, he was going through, he had just gone through a messy divorce. And, uh, um, we went through the cleanup of all that, that, you know, just life stuff there. And then, um, we had, you know, we had lawyers involved and everything, and that set us back financially. So then we went into all kinds of financial issues, um, we've had, where we've had, um, two very difficult, um, uh, births with our children.

• 36:05Speaker 03

  And, um, both of our children are on the spectrum, and, uh, we homeschool, so it's been, it's just been a lot of things like that.

• 36:17Dr. John Delony?

  Are you working or is he working?

• 36:20Speaker 03

  Um, I am actually, uh, disabled. So I work from home. Um, I run two small businesses on the side and then he works full time.

• 36:30Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 36:34Dr. John Delony?

  So in the past 10 years, he's buried his mom, been through a messy, expensive divorce, got remarried, had his own special needs son, had two more kids with special needs, married to a wife with special needs, and

• 36:55Dr. John Delony?

  he's just kind of cashed out?

• 36:59Dr. John Delony?

  When you, when you say you're disappointed in him and he's holding you back,

• 37:04Dr. John Delony?

  it sounds like he has, but y'all have both been through hell the last 10 years. So how's, how's he, how's he holding you back?

• 37:12Speaker 03

  Uh, well, when he met me, um, he knew that I, I, I pack, I pack a lot into life. Um, I like to, I like to live life to the fullest.

• 37:23Dr. John Delony?

  What does that mean?

• 37:25Speaker 03

  Uh, well, um, I used to work for the circus as an animal trainer. So I'm used to, you know, I'm used to being around and, and doing big things and, um, anything else in my life socially, I've always kind of done on that scale.

• 37:42Dr. John Delony?

  Kelly considers herself a animal trainer also. By, by working with me, by working with me. Um, okay. So when, when did you become unable to leave the house and work full time?

• 37:56Speaker 03

  So during my marriage with him, it was, um, during COVID, we were in a car accident and, uh, the same day that we actually found out we were pregnant and, um, it, it just totaled my back and I went through a major depression during that pregnancy, um, being isolated and, uh, not being able to get the help that I needed, um, for my pain. And so I just spiraled and I guess, I guess the animosity comes from during that time, you know, I had done so much to make sure nobody in the home spiraled before and I had already been through a rough previous pregnancy, but.

• 38:36Speaker 03

  The second time, it was just like, okay, I can't, I can't do this by myself. Um, these things like not having a nursery ready and not being, you know, not, not having my needs understand, you know, being, having to manage my diabetes by myself on top of everything. There was just, there just felt like there was no help. He was just too, too exhausted. Or he'd come to me and say, what do you want me to do? And I'd be like, well, here's the list. Here's the things that I've said. And it would just, it would just kind of, I, I don't know, just kind of dissipate into nothingness. You know, results. And so when I had my, um, when I had my, uh, second child with him,

• 39:17Speaker 03

  uh, and I got through the, um, I waited to die while I was pregnant. I was like, the, the pain is so bad. I just want to die.

• 39:26Dr. John Delony?

  And your, the pain in your back or the pain with the pregnancy?

• 39:29Speaker 03

  The pain in my back, the pain of the pregnancy. There was all kinds of, you know, complications and stuff. And there was just the home life around me. I didn't feel nurtured at all. I didn't feel, I didn't feel like there was support. You know, it was, he was still able to work during COVID, so staying at work and everything. It was still my job to make sure that, you know, the home stayed functioning and our business stayed running during COVID. And, uh, I got tired. I got burnt out then. And I said, I'm getting burnt out and I need help. And, um, it just, it just didn't arrive. And that's where I'm at in my-

• 40:07Dr. John Delony?

  In what way?

• 40:09Speaker 03

  Like, um-

• 40:11Dr. John Delony?

  Here's the thing, here's the thing, here's the thing. I, I just want to be as honest as I can with you, but I need you to be specific. And here's why.

• 40:18Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 40:21Dr. John Delony?

  No matter how loving a partner is, they can't make catastrophic back pain plus pregnancy, plus managing diabetes, um, plus feeding a autistic child, like breastfeeding a kid. They, they can't do, they can't make that less miserable.

• 40:43Speaker 03

  Right.

• 40:43Dr. John Delony?

  They can help with other things. And if a guy's coming to you saying, hey, how can I love you right now? What can I do to help? Um, and he's working full time.

• 40:54Dr. John Delony?

  Give me some examples about how he's quote unquote not showing up.

• 41:01Speaker 03

  When I was in hospital and we were coming back, one of the big stressors for me was coming back. And my daughter didn't have a room. She didn't have a nursery. She didn't have anything set up. The house wasn't even clean. I came home to a very messy home.

• 41:22Dr. John Delony?

  How long ago is this?

• 41:25Speaker 03

  This was four years ago, but this is, it's been things like that. I just feel like the necessity things that he goes blind to, you know, if I'm having, if I'm having problems with my health in a moment and I just need, I need everybody to go away while I fix, you know, my blood sugars or something. I just, I just feel like he doesn't check on me. There'll be, he'll come home from work and he'll, he'll just come home and, you know, go on his phone, you know, let the kids kind of run all around him and he gets stressed easy and I understand that. But it's just, I just feel like, I feel like I'm by myself. If I say finances, this is what

• 42:10Speaker 03

  we need to do. We need to have a yard sale to get our finances back on track, you know, and I'll plan it and everything like that. It just takes something very little to derail it. If, if I'm needing help with, you know, with our daughter's homeschooling and stuff, and I say, I need, you know, I can't, I've done everything here. I've done all the pre-planning for this and this is what I need you to do to get me an office so I can, you know, work with her and because she's, as she advances, this is what I need for me to get. And it doesn't happen. It's just like, well, we'll talk about that. And we'll talk about it. It just doesn't turn into anything. We'll, we'll, we'll plan something and then I'll end up

• 42:53Speaker 03

  doing it. And then when it comes time to review it or see how we can make changes. And if I need help with something, it just doesn't happen.

• 43:05Dr. John Delony?

  Can I ask you a crazy question?

• 43:08Speaker 03

  Go for it.

• 43:08Dr. John Delony?

  This is gonna sound insensitive and it's not, I'm not aiming for that. I just want to know, okay? Because I'm trying, I'm trying to get a full picture here.

• 43:20Dr. John Delony?

  Do you like him?

• 43:23Speaker 03

  I do.

• 43:24Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. When's the last time y'all, like you just made him a cup of coffee and y'all went for a walk?

• 43:33Speaker 03

  It's, it's been a while. It's, um...

• 43:35Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. I got, I got, let me, I'm just gonna ask you a few questions. And these are not judgment questions. These are just context.

• 43:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 43:44Dr. John Delony?

  When's the last time he did something for you, whether big, whether small, whether helped you with your diabetes, whether built something for you, make something, whatever? And you told him you were really happy that he did that thing?

• 44:02Speaker 03

  I honestly can't remember.

• 44:04Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 44:08Dr. John Delony?

  Because sometimes we get trapped in cycles, and I'm not, I'm not saying anybody's at fault here. I'm just saying this, these just happen in relationships. Where there's one stressor on top of a stressor on top of a stressor. And for one partner, their house just feels like a failure factory. I cannot win here.

• 44:30Dr. John Delony?

  And so they come home and they just numb out with, whether with a TV, with a phone, with anger, with alcohol, with pornography. They just numb out. And at the same time, the other partner puts every uncomfortable feeling at their partner's feet and says, "Fix this discomfort for me."

• 44:52Dr. John Delony?

  And that discomfort is a moving target. There can never be a place where we both exhale and say, "I'm glad you're here, and I'm glad you're here."

• 45:02Dr. John Delony?

  And that just works in a figure eight. I'm uncomfortable, I'm numbing out. I'm uncomfortable, I'm gonna try to fix your discomfort. You didn't do it right, I'm numbing out. And it just happens this way. And the only way I've ever seen that cycle disrupted is when one person says, "I'm not living like this anymore." "I'm swiping the deck clean. I have co-created this with you. I want a better, better marriage. I want to build a new marriage. Will you build it with me? Because I'm gonna change. I'm gonna ask you to bring your full self to the table too." That's the only way I've seen it change.

• 45:38Dr. John Delony?

  You all have built a prison for yourselves. And here's the prison. We have to homeschool. I can't work, so I have to run two businesses. Since I'm doing that, I have to have a house that looks different. I have to have this, I've got to have this, I've got to have this. And at the same time, he's probably sitting there thinking, I have to work full-time and keep the lights on. I've got to do this, I've got to do this. And these have-tos and shoulds and no matter what's are pulling you all further and further and further apart. And the only way I've seen this be successful is somebody comes in and swipes the debt completely clean and says, the only have-to is, I have to serve and love you, and you've got to serve and love me. And if we commit to that, then we can pretty much reverse engineer anything.

• 46:22Dr. John Delony?

  And so how do we develop a new marriage? And how do we develop new patterns of relating to each other?

• 46:31Dr. John Delony?

  And it might be you saying, I am going to take responsibility for my health, my diabetes, my doctor's appointments, my weight loss. We are going to have to, for a season, let the public school system handle and love our kids.

• 46:47Dr. John Delony?

  Can we get a handle on our money? I'll send you Financial Peace University and the EveryDollar app. I'm going to send it to you for free. I'm also going to send you a copy of Building a Non-Anxious Life, if y'all will use that book as a roadmap.

• 47:01Dr. John Delony?

  That way, you can sit down at this breakfast y'all have together with some tools.

• 47:08Speaker 03

  Thank you very much.

• 47:12Dr. John Delony?

  And I'm not minimizing your pain at all. I hope you hear that. I'm not minimizing his just checking out. I know that's happening. I'm just saying, one of y'all has to flip the light switch back on.

• 47:25Dr. John Delony?

  And you both are going to have to come up with different ways of relating to each other.

• 47:34Dr. John Delony?

  Sometimes saying, "We need a yard sale. We gotta get our finances back in order." "I haven't even seen..." That's one way to do it. Or, "Hey, I'm so scared. I'm scared about my health. I'm scared about our kids. I'm scared about our... Can we sit down? Can you help me be less scared? Can we look at our money together?" And if he says, "Absolutely not, screw you," and keep scrolling the news on his phone, then behavior is a language. He's telling you, "I've left this marriage." And you're gonna have to deal in that reality. But continuing to bang your head against the drum of anger and resentment and ash doesn't get you to where you want to go.

• 48:12Dr. John Delony?

  If he's a man of integrity, then letting him know, "I'm scared. I'm scared about my health. I'm scared about our marriage. I'm scared about all of us. I miss you." That's an appeal to a man of integrity. If he's an actor out in the community, then that will expose that.

• 48:30Dr. John Delony?

  And if you're expecting somebody else to grieve with you over the life you had, the vibrant, wild, animal training life you used to have, that is now a mother of three special needs kids, and a debilitating back injury, and I'm stuck in the house with two online businesses, then expecting somebody to make you happy is an unrealistic expectation. Somebody to grieve with you and to build a new life, that's realistic.

• 49:03Dr. John Delony?

  But if you live in a pain factory and he lives in a failure factory, that's gonna be the fruit of that tree. And somebody has to say, "I love you too much. I love me too much. I love us too much." I'm turning the lights on. "I want to build a new marriage. Are you in?" Which will be the scariest question anybody asks. That's my hope for you, sister. Hang on the line here. I'll hook you up with some resources. And you let me know. And if he wants to call in, y'all want to call back? I'd love to have you both on.

• 49:34Dr. John Delony?

  But it sounds like you miss him. And it's your move.

• 49:41Dr. John Delony?

  All right, if you've listened to my show, you know that I'm always talking about boundaries, emotional boundaries, relational, financial boundaries. But there's one boundary that I don't talk about very often. Almost nobody talks about it. And that's boundaries around your digital life. Right now, your personal information, your phone number, your address, even where your kids go to school, where you work, all of this information is sitting on countless gross websites that you've never heard of. And you didn't give them permission to have all this information, but it's out there. And let's be honest, it's not just annoying, it's a violation. This constant exposure all over the place from God knows where creates this low-level anxiety that hums in the background of all of our lives. Something always feels off.

• 50:26Dr. John Delony?

  And that's why I use and love Delete Me. Delete Me goes after the data brokers and the people finder sites that collect and resell your information. They track down your information and they remove it. And every few months, they send you a report showing you exactly what they've done for you. Taking control of your digital life is about boundaries, and boundaries are about peace. You deserve peace. Go to joindelete.me/deloney and use code DELONY to get 20% off. That's joindelete.me/deloney to save 20% off.

• 51:02Dr. John Delony?

  We're back. Kelly, am I the problem? You know what? Today, you're the problem, but go ahead.

• 51:07Speaker 04

  It has, it's been an eventful day behind the scenes for those that don't know. We'll just leave it at that. There's been a lot going on.

• 51:12Dr. John Delony?

  All I have to say is this, I'm trying to do a show and I can see what's going on behind this glass. And if y'all could, if we could ever just record what goes on back there, that show would be so much better, like more famous than my show.

• 51:24Speaker 04

  I know, but we would all be without jobs.

• 51:26Dr. John Delony?

  I know, but man, those first three episodes would crush.

• 51:31Speaker 04

  Yeah, people walked in while we were taking a sensitive call and it was a lot. Let's just continue on to...

• 51:37Dr. John Delony?

  Some famous people walked in and it was awesome.

• 51:41Dr. John Delony?

  But I was in the middle of a really sensitive moment. And so it was not awesome. But seeing Kelly's face out of the corner of my eye.

• 51:49Speaker 04

  Because I had to tell said people why they shouldn't be in the room.

• 51:52Dr. John Delony?

  So great.

• 51:53Speaker 04

  Yeah. Anywho.

• 51:55Dr. John Delony?

  That's the reddest I've seen you turn in a long time.

• 51:57Speaker 04

  I have no doubt.

• 51:59Dr. John Delony?

  Since I saw you at that bar mitzvah dancing the other night. Like just shaking it like a salt shaker in like that bathing suit thing you're wearing. That's the, that's the most embarrassed I've seen you. But just a minute ago was the second most ever. All right, go ahead.

• 52:14Speaker 04

  So Nicole writes.

• 52:17Dr. John Delony?

  What's, what's? What does Nicole say, Kelly?

• 52:23Speaker 04

  Oh, okay. Nicole writes, am I the problem? I've distanced myself from my high school friends of over 20 years because every time I get together with them, all they talk about is how awful their lives are and I leave feeling so down. It's a total misery loves company interaction. They're dealing with divorces, cheating husbands, custody battles, et cetera. Meanwhile, I'm the happiest I've ever been with my husband and four kids. I feel like I can't share anything positive because I feel bad and it seems like they don't want to hear it. They just want to commiserate. I want to support them through their hard times, but getting together with them is such a downer and I dread it. And my selfish friend for trying to distance myself. I want to be around people who bring joy, not negativity. Am I the problem?

• 53:03Dr. John Delony?

  No, you are going through one of the most painful breakups, which is that transition from high school and college friends to everyone just kind of splinters off and has kids. Gets into their own things, moves away. It's just hard and it's miserable, but no, you are. By the way, your friends don't want your support. They want your co misery. Ethan, Dr. Ethan Cross calls it co-rumination. They don't want to fix anything. They just want you to sit in their sewer sludgy hot tub and just baste in the, ugh. They don't want your support. And so it's you just saying, I don't want to get in the hot tub because it's disgusting. And that stinks because y'all have shared memories.

• 53:46Dr. John Delony?

  And by the way, this current iteration of them versus you. It doesn't diminish how much fun y'all had in high school and college. It doesn't, it doesn't diminish the silly times you had, the, the, the bad date y'all went. It doesn't diminish any of that stuff. It just is a reality that. Y'all's lives have diverged and you're gonna lean towards joy and they're gonna lean towards misery and co-rumination and just doing on stuff. And it just, I wish there was another way to say it, it just stinks. It's no good. It's the worst and it's very, very common. It's very natural. What do you think Kelly?

• 54:21Speaker 04

  I agree. Um, I had a friend, one of my best friends from college, um, and it finally got to where it was so hard to be friends because I felt like I was doing all the heavy lifting as far as everything was always wrong and it was always just such a drudge, you know? And so kinda had to just gently let that one go.

• 54:43Dr. John Delony?

  Just fades out.

• 54:44Speaker 04

  And that is hard because you keep thinking in your brain, you're like, no, it's my friend. I have to do this, but sometimes you have to make decisions that are right for you. And that doesn't mean you're not there for them and if you need them and if things turn around or see them every once in a while, but yeah.

• 54:57Dr. John Delony?

  I always wanna go back to, do you want my support or do you want my co-misery? And with my closest ride or dies, I'll be miserable with you for a season. I'll grieve with you for a season and, but we're gonna work towards going towards daylight, right? And if you wanna just stay in the dark, I'll honor that, but I don't wanna do that long term.

• 55:17Speaker 04

  And it reminds me of, what is it like crabs where they, you know, are like, um, when, like in boiling water.

• 55:23Dr. John Delony?

  Tell us more Kelly.

• 55:24Speaker 04

  No, not that kind, John.

• 55:26Dr. John Delony?

  Jocka show.

• 55:27Speaker 04

  But they'll pull each other down if one tries to climb out.

• 55:29Dr. John Delony?

  Oh, I didn't know that.

• 55:30Speaker 04

  Yeah, and, um.

• 55:31Dr. John Delony?

  My crustacean knowledge is very limited.

• 55:33Speaker 04

  Um.

• 55:34Dr. John Delony?

  That was good.

• 55:35Speaker 04

  Clearly you haven't seen Finding Nemo because it's in there. Um, but the whole idea of, you know, somebody tries to climb out, but especially when there's more, it's when there's three or four of them and then like she said, it's just a commiseration and, and she may have to say, I just can't do this anymore or just kinda quietly back away.

• 55:55Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah. Head towards joy and if people don't wanna go with you, it can be a lonely trip, especially these days when everything is about, let's be miserable together. And someone says, you know what, as for me and my house, I'm not gonna wait on, I'm gonna head towards joy. Um, that can be a lonely walk, but I promise there are other people on that path. Love you guys. Stay out of trouble. Bye.