Kate Hudson: A Year Without Men (FBF)

Join Alex in the studio for an interview with Kate Hudson. Kate talks about her childhood, being a prude in high school, and how she personally handled mean girls. She opens up about falling in love very young and getting married in her early twenties. Kate also shares her opinion about why she still has love for her exes. She explains how to let go of resentment and encourages the Daddy Gang to take accountability for their part in relationships too. Kate talks about how there’s nothing wrong with living life on your terms and how to feel confident breaking the norm. Then she gives advice on how to catch a guy being shady, what to do when you find out your boyfriend has a burner phone, and how to navigate when you and your partner’s sex drives aren’t syncing up. Finally, she talks about going a year without men and breaking toxic patterns to find independence and security in her relationships. Enjoy!

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Alex Cooper?

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• 0:43Alex Cooper?

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• 1:28Alex Cooper?

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• 2:10Alex Cooper?

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• 2:55Alex Cooper?

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• 3:14Speaker 01

  What is up Daddy gang? It is your founding father, Alex Cooper with Call Her Daddy.

• 3:22Alex Cooper?

  Hi.

• 3:23Speaker 01

  Hi.

• 3:24Alex Cooper?

  Kate Hudson.

• 3:25Speaker 01

  Excuse me if I have like these disgusting cough episodes.

• 3:29Alex Cooper?

  Oh, are you sick?

• 3:30Speaker 01

  Because I am, no, I am, I had that lingering like three week.

• 3:34Alex Cooper?

  Uh huh. You came here to get me sick.

• 3:36Speaker 01

  If you get sick, it wasn't me.

• 3:38Alex Cooper?

  It was you.

• 3:39Speaker 01

  I am not contagious.

• 3:40Alex Cooper?

  You came in here to like, fuck this bitch, I'm gonna get her really sick and leave? And give her no tea. No, it's gonna be great.

• 4:02Alex Cooper?

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• 4:47Alex Cooper?

  SoFi, get your money right. This is a paid advertisement by SoFi Technologies and is not intended to be financial advice. This is a paid ad by BetterHelp. I always think it is so important to find time to take care of myself because I think self-care for me, a lot of times, is getting some alone time, even if it's just go on a 10-minute walk outside. Self-care can obviously look different at different stages of life, and the ways that we practice it often evolve over time. But one possible way to take care of yourself is through therapy. Therapy with BetterHelp, one of the leading online therapy platforms, can be a space to prioritize your mental health, reflect on where you are, and check in with yourself. With over 30,000 therapists worldwide, BetterHelp has served millions of people globally.

• 5:32Alex Cooper?

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• 6:12Alex Cooper?

  just to try to land a job? It is insane and it's a lot of work, but honestly, I believe that, right? I remember when I got my first job out of college, I literally spent months applying and applying and applying and applying. And the worst part is you can spend all this time finding the right role, fixing your resume, writing the application, and then you might not even hear back, right? And it is so frustrating because you're like, okay, I know I would be so great for this job, but how do I actually get them to even notice me? That is where ZipRecruiter comes in, my friends. Okay, ZipRecruiter matches you up with the right job in minutes and their

• 6:54Alex Cooper?

  new feature even lets your application be seen first by employers. You can try it out by going to ziprecruiter.com slash daddy. It is such a game changer, guys. When you apply for a job, you can be seen first. Just tell the employer why you're interested in the role and your application jumps to the top of their list. No matter where you are in your career journey, make your application be seen first only on ZipRecruiter. Try it out now by going to this exclusive web address, ziprecruiter.com slash daddy. Again, that's ziprecruiter.com slash daddy. Okay, so you're kind of like in an entire new phase of your life right now with this new venture of music. Congratulations.

• 7:37Speaker 01

  I know. Well, only in public.

• 7:39Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 7:39Speaker 01

  You know what I mean?

• 7:40Alex Cooper?

  Okay.

• 7:41Speaker 01

  I mean, music's been in my life, my whole life.

• 7:44Alex Cooper?

  Okay.

• 7:45Speaker 01

  Whether it was me or whether it was with like my exes, partners.

• 7:52Speaker 01

  But yeah, no, I finally was like, you know what? If I don't share it, I'll just regret it. And

• 7:56Alex Cooper?

  That's what I think is interesting. When you think of like Kate Hudson, everyone's like actress. Is it terrifying to come out with music? Or are you like excited? Are you nervous?

• 8:07Speaker 01

  I think it was terrifying, which is why I didn't do it. And I'm an Aries, like I'm supposed to be fearless. And I was like, why am I so terrified to share?

• 8:22Speaker 01

  My writing, really, you know, and I, I think, I think it's because when I grew up and, and, and sort of was young and became well-known and, you know, I got, I, I got famous young. So I was 20 years old and um, at that time, like you don't switch careers. There's no like, there was no, oh, you're gonna be a movie star and then you're gonna be, and then you can be a rock star. It's like, no, stay in one lane. Everyone tells you to stay in one lane. Don't break what's not broken. So I kind of had this thing where it was like, the one thing I loved the most was gonna take a, was just gonna take a backseat.

• 9:04Speaker 01

  And so my dream was like, okay, well, I can do musicals and then maybe that's how I incorporate music into my life. And then I, you know, it just time gets away from you and, you know, kids and things and COVID happened and I'm like, I'm sitting on hundreds and hundreds of songs that I've never like, I'm so scared to put that out, but, but why?

• 9:32Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 9:33Speaker 01

  And so I had to kind of tackle that. And then I was just like, fuck it. If I don't do it, then I will be on my deathbed and it will be a great regret of mine. So.

• 9:41Alex Cooper?

  Well, I think it's incredible you're doing it also because you have a really good voice.

• 9:45Speaker 01

  Oh, thanks.

• 9:45Alex Cooper?

  Like, no, but I think sometimes like, to be honest, I think people are always like, oh, God, another fucking actress is gonna now try to do a singing career or vice versa. Like, yeah, the singer goes to try to act. I'm listening to it and I'm like, oh, you have a fucking great voice.

• 9:59Speaker 01

  It's funny because I'm not like, I don't, I don't, that's been part of my hesitation is I don't see my, the instrument as like a technician. I think there's certain technicians of the instrument that are fucking brilliant. And you listen to them and you're like, whoa, they can do runs for days and they can hit certain notes and things. And like, I never saw myself as a technician of the instrument. So like when I'm writing music, I write, I write for my voice or I write what I'm feeling. So that always for me was like, huh, you know, if I can't hit that note, then.

• 10:37Speaker 01

  What does that mean, you know, and so I kind of also had to just

• 10:40Alex Cooper?

  Let it go.

• 10:41Speaker 01

  Let that go.

• 10:42Alex Cooper?

  Well, I also think what you were saying is your lyrics. Like, as I was like going through your music, I'm like, oh, so much of your lyrics are about love and your relationships and heartbreak and moving on and knowing when to move on and like, Romeo, I feel like is like a great summer bop.

• 10:59Speaker 01

  You like Romeo?

• 11:00Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 11:01Speaker 01

  I love, oh my God, I love.

• 11:02Alex Cooper?

  I think it's a, I think it's a vibe.

• 11:04Speaker 01

  Romeo so much.

• 11:06Alex Cooper?

  It's a good vibe.

• 11:07Speaker 01

  Romeo makes me happy. That song just is like, I just want to like, put it on in the car in the summer. Yes, I love that. That's the one you mentioned.

• 11:17Alex Cooper?

  But then I also love that you go to the complete opposite side and it's like, love ain't easy. And I'm like, you're just like flexing your vocals. I'm like, holy fucking shit. It's like a beautiful, I guess, ballad or like, and it's gorgeous. But so much of listening to it, I felt like I got to know you a little bit more. And I want to talk a little bit about that today. Because I'm like, okay.

• 11:37Speaker 01

  Uh oh.

• 11:38Alex Cooper?

  When you were growing up, how was sex and dating discussed in your household?

• 11:44Speaker 01

  In our house?

• 11:45Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 11:46Speaker 01

  Oh, I mean, I have very open, you know,

• 11:51Speaker 01

  progressive parents-ish, progressive-ish parents. Um, those were things that were always very open.

• 11:57Alex Cooper?

  Okay.

• 11:57Speaker 01

  And I think part of why we were never super rebellious was because there was no mystery around those things. So, you know, even, even like party, like my parents loved to have a good time. And we grew up seeing them enjoy their life, laugh with friends, be, you know, talk about naughty things sometimes, overhear things that were like, hmm, what are they talking about?

• 12:27Speaker 01

  But this mystery of like connection and and why we connect with people was never something that was like hidden that we didn't talk about, you know?

• 12:36Alex Cooper?

  I think that's a good point because I feel like not to shit on the kids that's parents were so strict, but I had a similar upbringing where like my parents were like very open about things. So I was never like, I want to go experiment and do all the shit behind their back because fuck you, you're making me stay home. I felt like I was lucky to have that, but I can see a lot of kids where you can go the opposite way because if your parent tells you not to do something, you naturally want to do it sometimes.

• 13:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:00Alex Cooper?

  So if you have people that are talking openly about, especially I think for women about like not actual sex, like your mom's not like, Kate, let me tell you about this. But when you're, well, did she?

• 13:10Speaker 01

  No, I mean, not when I was young.

• 13:14Alex Cooper?

  What were you like with guys growing up? Like, were you confident?

• 13:17Speaker 01

  Totally boy crazy.

• 13:19Alex Cooper?

  Really?

• 13:19Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 13:19Alex Cooper?

  I'm still boy crazy.

• 13:21Speaker 01

  You are?

• 13:21Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 13:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, boys are fun. I have a good boy right now. I have a really awesome boy, but I mean, I, I, you know, I'm doing this show right now where I play the president of a basketball team. So I'm basically surrounded by men all day.

• 13:36Alex Cooper?

  And you're happy?

• 13:37Speaker 01

  I went home to Danny. I was like, honey, I'm having the time of my life. I love you and and I and I am very committed, but oh, I feel so lucky. It's like I was born for this job.

• 13:50Alex Cooper?

  Stop.

• 13:51Speaker 01

  But I was very boy crazy.

• 13:53Alex Cooper?

  Okay.

• 13:54Speaker 01

  And, um, but I was also a very prude.

• 13:59Alex Cooper?

  Oh, really?

• 13:59Speaker 01

  Like, like, like, love to have fun, love to be flirty, super prude.

• 14:04Alex Cooper?

  Really?

• 14:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:04Alex Cooper?

  What was your personality in high school?

• 14:07Speaker 01

  I didn't want to be there.

• 14:09Alex Cooper?

  Why?

• 14:10Speaker 01

  Because I was like, ready to, like, I was like, ready to have my own apartment somewhere in the world. Like, I was like in ninth grade, like, ah, just someone give me like a martini and a cigarette and a and like some book on a balcony in Paris. Like, I don't know. I can see it a little bit in my daughter. It's just like, I wasn't into the high school party scene. I wanted to be in theater. I wanted to be singing. I wanted to be like traveling the world. I was like, ready.

• 14:39Alex Cooper?

  Got it.

• 14:40Speaker 01

  I've, to me, high school felt like it was holding me back.

• 14:44Alex Cooper?

  I get that.

• 14:44Speaker 01

  You know, and I was like, oh, you're just, you're just holding me back, you know? Now I look back at high school and I feel like, um, It was like one of the great experiences of my life.

• 14:55Alex Cooper?

  Right, right.

• 14:56Speaker 01

  But I was definitely like the mom of the bunch.

• 15:00Alex Cooper?

  Oh, okay.

• 15:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, like when all my friends are partying, like I was designated driver. Like I would take care of everybody.

• 15:06Alex Cooper?

  I didn't expect that.

• 15:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, total. Everybody thinks I'm a total party girl. I was the opposite. Yeah.

• 15:10Alex Cooper?

  So you're always DDing, still to this day?

• 15:13Speaker 01

  Always. Well, I mean, you know, not now, but like back then I was very straight.

• 15:19Alex Cooper?

  Were you bullied at all?

• 15:20Speaker 01

  I'm still pretty straight.

• 15:21Alex Cooper?

  Like were you octored?

• 15:22Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 15:23Alex Cooper?

  Really?

• 15:23Speaker 01

  Totally. Yeah, because, look, when you're young, if you're confident in something, it's hard, like people don't really like it.

• 15:31Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 15:31Speaker 01

  So like, I remember, I was like, I knew exactly what I wanted to do. I was very focused. I wanted to be in theater. I wanted to be like, working and doing things and there's a lot of girls who just rolled their eyes at that.

• 15:46Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 15:46Speaker 01

  And so, yeah, I wouldn't say bullied, but there was a lot of gossipy, like,

• 15:52Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 15:52Speaker 01

  talk behind back type stuff.

• 15:54Alex Cooper?

  That makes sense. Where girls are just like, she's fucking annoying. And then you're like, what? Because I know what I want to do?

• 15:58Speaker 01

  And like, you know, I guess like because I wasn't, I think girls who don't party, you know, I can sometimes get that too. It's like, oh, you're too good to like get drunk with us. And it's like, no, I actually just don't want to like do a keg stand, like on, with you right now. Like I don't want to get wasted, but I'm happy to like, hold your hair when you're throwing up. I, I don't. So I was like that girl and it would, I think sometimes bother girls.

• 16:27Alex Cooper?

  I get that too.

• 16:28Speaker 01

  But it didn't bother me.

• 16:29Alex Cooper?

  Wait, you're not judging them for doing the keg stand?

• 16:31Speaker 01

  No.

• 16:32Alex Cooper?

  You've like got the hair tie ready.

• 16:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I just didn't, I just wasn't, I wasn't like that.

• 16:37Alex Cooper?

  But I think when you're at a place in your life where you're like, don't feel like you're in the same position as people, like mentality wise, it's hard to fit in anywhere. Like if you're like, ready to move on and everyone's like, we're loving this. Like we're going to the tailgate tonight. And you're like, stab me.

• 16:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think that, I think these like so young, like social, structure, clicky, like Lord of the Flies type, like.

• 17:04Speaker 01

  Things that happen are actually really important.

• 17:08Speaker 01

  How you deal with them at school and then how you deal with them at home with your family and like how they're supported. I think are so important. Like I feel like it's good to kind of have a little bit of friction when you're growing up and people saying mean things. Sometimes it's like, oh, you know, you you kind of need a little bit of that to like power through it and to realize like in in in retrospect. To to be able to reflect, look back and go, wow, like, I'm so happy that that wasn't who I am and that I had a little bit of that scarring.

• 17:49Alex Cooper?

  Good point.

• 17:49Speaker 01

  Get me get get you through certain things because it doesn't get better.

• 17:54Alex Cooper?

  No, it does not.

• 17:55Speaker 01

  The world is a, I mean, human nature is quite brutal. So so like, how do we? You know, when those small communities like you're going to have friction in high school. I mean, what was your friction?

• 18:11Alex Cooper?

  Mine was, I definitely like, I had a similar experience where like I was ready to get out. Like I knew I wanted to do all of this. Like I was like the video production nerd, but I was also at the same time the jock. So like I hid from everyone that I liked video production and I would like lie to everyone. They're like, why are you doing that for your elective every year? I'm like, I don't know. They said like, I'm good. It's so annoying, but whatever. It's easy. Like I would lie because I was embarrassed because everyone would make fun of me for like liking that shit.

• 18:38Speaker 01

  Right.

• 18:39Alex Cooper?

  And I was the jock. So they're like, you're the soccer girl. Like you can't be both. And kind of what we talked about at the beginning of this episode. It's like you can never be both. And I think especially for women, it's like you definitely can't be both. That can't be possible. And I was insecure. Like I was super awkward and gawky. Aren't we all? And like, it wasn't great, but I do look back and in the moment I was like, fuck my fucking life. I need to get to college. Then when I got to college, I was like, I'm ready to go to New York City. Get me the fuck out of here. Like I feel like at every stage of my life in those like scholastic moments, I was like, I'm ready to leave. I'm not meant to be here. But then I look back and I'm like, I learned so much about myself.

• 19:14Speaker 01

  I know. And then you kind of look back too. And you're like, oh, and then you had these great, like big, fun, awesome moments.

• 19:20Alex Cooper?

  Yes.

• 19:21Speaker 01

  Sometimes I look, there's certain people too that were just like always wonderful. Like, you know, you kind of, this girl Hillary and Jessica and like, I look at these girls, I'm like, God, they were, I wonder what they're doing now. Like, they must be like the greatest mother of all time. Cause they were so like even and they had kind to everybody and like helping you organize your own thoughts. Like, did you get your homework done? Like, oh yeah, oh shit. You know, there's, so it's like, I don't know, you look back at that little mic, like, it's like a microcosm of what, you know, the sort of.

• 19:56Alex Cooper?

  No, you're right. It's like, sometimes I think we have a hard time pinpointing like the positives in situations. Like, I found an old laptop from college and I had some like fucked up shit happen to me in college. And I looked back at like this really specific time in my life as like negative. And I remember opening my laptop and like almost getting so emotional because I'm like, I had the best time. Like, I fucking love these girls and I love these people and I love, so like when there's something negative that happens, it's hard to remember all the positive, but most of it.

• 20:26Speaker 01

  Well, our brain does sort of lean, you know, more to the, unfortunately, to the negative.

• 20:31Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, true.

• 20:32Speaker 01

  You know?

• 20:33Alex Cooper?

  Tell me about your first love.

• 20:35Speaker 01

  My first love?

• 20:36Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 20:38Speaker 01

  My first, I mean, my first real love was my ex-husband. You know, I was young, I met him when I was twen- I actually met him when I was eighteen.

• 20:44Alex Cooper?

  Okay.

• 20:45Speaker 01

  Nineteen, nineteen. And he was just a, like, you know, not a very nice rock star type, like. And I remember thinking, God, he was so mean. And then I met him again at twenty and he wasn't that mean. I must have caught him on a bad, a bad night or something.

• 21:06Speaker 01

  And yeah, I mean, first real love of my life.

• 21:09Alex Cooper?

  How soon did you date to then get married?

• 21:12Speaker 01

  Oh gosh, it was a whirlwind. It was, we were engaged in four months and married at nine months and then, you know, and then like three years, then I wanted to have a baby and we had Ryder and. And then, and then it kind of started to do that downward spiral.

• 21:30Alex Cooper?

  The classic, the classic, we all know it. How did you know you were ready for marriage at 21?

• 21:36Speaker 01

  There wasn't an ounce of me that wasn't, like, I didn't question it for a second.

• 21:41Alex Cooper?

  Really?

• 21:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, we were, we were so connected and, and, and Chris taught me so much about love and connection and, you know, it was just a wonderfully passionate relationship.

• 21:55Alex Cooper?

  Did anyone around you be like, Kate, please don't get married right now?

• 22:00Speaker 01

  No, like my, the people I live in let people make mistakes, you know?

• 22:06Alex Cooper?

  Okay, so your mom didn't care, she's like?

• 22:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, and by the way, not a mistake. I, I look back at my entire, you know, life at this point. And I'm like, I actually feel like I might have gotten it right, you know?

• 22:18Alex Cooper?

  Like, love.

• 22:19Speaker 01

  There's this sort of construct that, that we're supposed to do it a certain way, which I understand, because I really believe in the unit and I think it's what's missing right now. But I, I, I do believe that a unit can exist differently than this sort of like, very kind of religious, um, concept of like marriage and male female relationship. Like, I really believe that a unit can be, even if someone is alone in their life and hasn't met the love of their life, that they could have a best friend, that they live close together and they have, they can raise their children together and like, have values inside of that that can be really important for children.

• 23:01Speaker 01

  So like, you know, for me, having the means and the ability to choose to be more healthy in relationships, means that it's easy, it's kind of been easier for me to exit unhealthy relationships.

• 23:18Alex Cooper?

  Interesting.

• 23:19Speaker 01

  So. Whereas if I probably didn't have the means, it would be a much more challenging thing. But inside of that, just because you're not supposed to be with someone, doesn't mean that you can't create a big, beautiful experience.

• 23:34Alex Cooper?

  Totally.

• 23:35Speaker 01

  I don't know how I've been able to do it, but it's like, we just do it, all of us.

• 23:40Alex Cooper?

  What would you say? Cause like, I think you're right, and I love how you described that. I think so many people can be judgmental if you don't follow like the traditional route. Like, it's like 21 is too young, but then like 30 is too old. It's like, you can't fucking win as a woman. What was like the best and then the hardest parts of like being married in your early twenties?

• 23:59Speaker 01

  I just like jump in the deep end of everything. So it's sort of like, I mean, the best thing was that I, in a time that could have been probably not very grounded, I've always sought home. I've always sought, I like my cozy, you know, I'm a homebody. And I've always wanted a big family. I've always wanted to work hard and have a big, fun, crazy life, but like, you know, I am a, I am a, I like to be home. And so even when I was young, I longed for that.

• 24:37Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 24:37Speaker 01

  Family, family connection. I grew up like that. So, um, and so when I met Chris, it's like when my career was taking off, it was also a time that, you know, could have been a whirlwind. And instead, I was in this very grounding, loving relationship.

• 24:58Alex Cooper?

  Right. Like you had that stability, even though like externally it looked all chaos, because your life is like, you're thriving, you're a movie star. You get to go home to this guy and you're like, this is what I prefer.

• 25:09Speaker 01

  Like a cozy, great vibe.

• 25:12Alex Cooper?

  Vibe, yeah. I think something I was reading about you that I think is really relatable is like, you talk about how when your marriage ended, you still had like so much love for this person. And I'm wondering if you have any advice for women listening of like, maybe someone just went through a breakup and they're still so in love with their ex, but they know they need to move on. Like, how the fuck do you do that?

• 25:34Speaker 01

  Let's be very clear. Like, if I didn't have children, I probably would never speak to this.

• 25:39Alex Cooper?

  Stop!

• 25:39Speaker 01

  I'm kidding. No, you know, the thing is like, I, I, I don't know if it has something, it just, I guess it's just a, it's an attachment thing, I guess. It's like how we attach to pain, or why something isn't working, or what the expectation is of what you wanted from the relationship, and then that expectation letting you down. And then people suffer because they've sort of put such an expectation on what something's supposed to look like. Versus, my choice through life is just like, opening, being more open. And like, and that doesn't mean that it's without

• 26:24Speaker 01

  pain and sadness and working through stuff and reflecting and taking accountability, but like, and I'll come back to the accountability part, because I think that's the most important thing, but the end of the day, you know, you, I believe you love, you know, someone, if you love them once, you really love them in some way forever.

• 26:45Speaker 01

  Even if you can't stand them, there, you, if you really did, if you really loved them, if it was pure, it wasn't like, coming from someplace unhealthy. You'll love them through anything, you know, maybe not romantically, but that will always, always be there. And I, and I do believe that like, it shifts, just like friendships shift, you know? My best friendships have gone through times where we are like, don't talk forty times a day to not seeing each other for a year. But there's a, but there's always that kind of foundation. I, I believe that with great loves of your life, and I

• 27:27Speaker 01

  will always, even in the, in the hardest times, be able to see the people that I've been with, and that I've shared intimacy with, like, in a loving way. I, I also, I also believe that that's a choice. Like, I choose to do that. You know, I, I, I do that because I think it's more peaceful for me, which makes it more peaceful for my children. But I think that the, the biggest thing about relationships, and, you know, when they, when they

• 28:00Speaker 01

  When they end. Is is like how you're being accountable. And I think most people hold on to all the shit when they're not taking accountability for their own own thing. You know, it's like, it doesn't matter. There's it's always, there's always two people in the relationship. So you can't just point a finger out. That's you always have to look back and, you know,

• 28:27Speaker 01

  the old one finger and three pointed back at you.

• 28:31Alex Cooper?

  It's a great point. I love everything you just said because I think I had a conversation, I think it was with Camila Cabello. And she was like, yeah, like, it's tough. Like, where does the love go? Like, when you break up with someone that you love so much, it's a strange thing to know, like, they're alive and they're out there.

• 28:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:51Alex Cooper?

  And I'm here.

• 28:53Speaker 01

  And that's why that Go TA song was so huge. It was so like, it hit a nerve for everybody.

• 28:58Alex Cooper?

  Yes.

• 28:59Speaker 01

  Somebody that I used to know. You're like, God, why didn't I write that?

• 29:03Alex Cooper?

  Fuck.

• 29:04Speaker 01

  You know, but like, yeah, I mean, it's it's tough. But what did she is that that was?

• 29:09Alex Cooper?

  No, she basically just said, like, it hurts, but it's like, you know, it's not supposed to be anymore. It was, we change constantly as people. Like, I'm the same person, but a different version of myself when I was 21. Oh, my God, I was madly in love. I'm not in love with him anymore, but I still, yes, I think you're right. I choose to know that I still have love for all of these people that I loved. I think when it ends really badly, if someone like, did you fucking dirty and cheated on you? And you find out and you're like, oh, my God, I think you never respected me. Fuck. That can hurt. But again, it's like, how did it get to that point? I you can always look back at yourself and be like, could I have done this or could I have done that? And sometimes they're just a piece of shit and you're like, you couldn't have done any better.

• 29:51Speaker 01

  I have a friend I who said something really, really great, which is like, you know, when you're in something and you're going through a wave, you know? He was also talking about it kind of like a DNA strand, like. You know, people say it's like a roller coaster, but it's more like when you're with someone for a long time. It's like it, it's like it circulates, you know, moves and I thought that was a very kind of a beautiful image for a long-term intimate relationship. And as it's shifting, when you start to feel yourself off balance, like it's much easier for us to go out, to externalize it and go, I'm not getting this or I'm not receiving that.

• 30:36Speaker 01

  I'm, this is what that would look like over here. And what if I had this over there? And, and, and, and what I believe happens as you get older or healthier, maybe not an age thing, but like, is when you enter, you go internal, that issue or that wave or that cycle, it, it starts to move differently.

• 30:59Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 30:59Speaker 01

  You're not seeking anything externally. You're only really looking at it internally, which can only in turn really make the relationship more intimate.

• 31:10Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 31:11Speaker 01

  And honestly, more, you know, um, I would say connect, connective because you're not seeking it from somewhere else. And then if you get to that place where you're like, I don't know if I can do this anymore. It's not coming from anything you need from the outside world.

• 31:31Alex Cooper?

  I think that the concept of accountability in relationships is like not talked about enough. And I love that you brought up because it also gives you so much more autonomy over your own life. When you actually take accountability as opposed to being like, he did this to me. And he's like, no, no one can do anything to you other than like physically.

• 31:49Speaker 01

  Unless you're in like a very, very scary.

• 31:52Alex Cooper?

  Oh, my gosh, yes.

• 31:53Speaker 01

  Like abusive. Put all of that aside.

• 31:55Alex Cooper?

  Right. Like if someone's making you feel a certain way, like you have the ability to control your own emotions and your actions and what you're doing and how you're reacting.

• 32:05Speaker 01

  Yeah. And like, and like, look, you know, everybody holds their own wild card.

• 32:08Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 32:09Speaker 01

  Right. And like, sometimes that wild card works for some people and it really doesn't for others. And if you're holding two completely different wild cards, it can get fucking really tumultuous and wild. But if you're holding the same wild card, you know, if someone is like, hey, here's the deal. I want an open relationship. I could never be faithful to you. I'd be like, oh my God, thank you for saying that. I can't be with you.

• 32:33Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 32:33Speaker 01

  But like, I have so much respect for your honesty. But if you're like, this person told me he couldn't be faithful to me, but I decided to be with this person anyway, and now we're in this tumultuous relationship and I'm miserable, I'd be like, if I was my own girlfriend, I'd be like, babe, you need, this is more about you than it is about him.

• 32:55Alex Cooper?

  Like, he told you. He was honest.

• 32:57Speaker 01

  He was honest.

• 32:58Alex Cooper?

  And you still rode the wave.

• 33:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, you're holding different wild cards. If you were like, great, then I'm gonna do the same. Then you guys would have a, I mean, you'd be, you know.

• 33:09Alex Cooper?

  No, it's a great point. It's like, sometimes we also, I think people, and it depends on where you're at, I think, health-wise, it's like, I, when I was younger, oh, blinders on, I'm like, he told me this. I'm like, no, he didn't. No, he didn't. He didn't say that to me. I'm like pretending to, I'm like, short-term memory, and it was because I wanted what I wanted, and I wasn't listening to what was being said directly to my face.

• 33:30Speaker 01

  Right.

• 33:30Alex Cooper?

  It's like, you're an idiot. Like, he literally told you he's cheated on his last 17 girlfriends. What'd you think was gonna happen now?

• 33:37Speaker 01

  Right.

• 33:37Alex Cooper?

  I'm gonna change him.

• 33:38Speaker 01

  No, you're not. And also, you know, a lot of people, I think, find themselves in relationships where people feel insecure and they wanna put people down, and, and you take it. And at some point, I think a lot of women I know have been in this situation. At some point, you know, you can point your finger out at them, but you can, at some point, you're like, why am I accepting this?

• 34:02Alex Cooper?

  Right. Like, why am I here?

• 34:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:04Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 34:04Speaker 01

  And, and it kind of feeds that, like, you know, push-pull thing that a lot of people get very, like, toxically into.

• 34:12Alex Cooper?

  Love.

• 34:13Speaker 01

  But.

• 34:14Alex Cooper?

  No, I used to love it. I was like, oh my god, I'm alive. I was like, Kate, I'm alive. And now, if I like, would meet someone at that point in my life, I think when I got to like, later in my twenties, I was like, I'm exhausted. Like, absolutely get the fuck away from me if you're like, playing games. But in my early twenties, like, it kept my heart beating. I was like, this is a thrill. And it was just all because, like, I didn't want stability at that point.

• 34:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, you gotta learn.

• 34:39Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 34:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, you gotta be like, yeah.

• 34:42Alex Cooper?

  Um, I have scenarios for you, because you have wisdom. I'm gonna give you a scenario, and I want to know if you would keep seeing the guy, or if this would be a deal breaker.

• 35:08Alex Cooper?

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• 35:53Alex Cooper?

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• 36:38Alex Cooper?

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• 37:19Alex Cooper?

  support, get clinically studied biotics to support your gut health with Ritual. My listeners can save 25% off their first month at ritual.com/callherdaddy. That's ritual.com/callherdaddy for 25% off your first month. These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. I'm going to give you a scenario and I want to know if you would keep seeing the guy or if this would be a deal breaker.

• 37:50Speaker 01

  Okay, okay.

• 37:51Alex Cooper?

  You catch him going through your phone and he says it's because he's been, you've been distant.

• 37:57Speaker 01

  How long have I been with him?

• 37:58Alex Cooper?

  You've been together for eight months.

• 38:01Speaker 01

  Oh, done. Out. See you later. Weird. So weird. What about two years? Then maybe I'd be like, okay, what am I doing that's making you feel insecure? And by the way, you can go into my phone anytime. You don't need to look at that. Like if I'm with someone for two years, I'm not one of those people that's like, why are you looking in my phone? It's like, what's my, like, here's my phone. I don't, I wouldn't live with secrecy or feel like I need, you know?

• 38:30Alex Cooper?

  Yeah. Have you ever caught someone going through your phone?

• 38:32Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. Emails.

• 38:36Alex Cooper?

  How did you find out?

• 38:37Speaker 01

  I could tell where there was like logins, you know, it was like stupid, you know, it was like,

• 38:43Alex Cooper?

  Stupid?

• 38:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, which also is like, bye. Like you gotta be smarter than that.

• 38:48Alex Cooper?

  You almost get like the ick because you're like, wait, like I, it would have been like cooler if you were like so sly.

• 38:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, but you're, but you're,

• 38:54Alex Cooper?

  I'm getting a notification.

• 38:55Speaker 01

  Yeah. It's like, what are you doing?

• 38:57Alex Cooper?

  No.

• 38:58Speaker 01

  Clearly someone's on my, yeah.

• 39:00Alex Cooper?

  On my iPad or my computer, whatever. It's like on my phone. It's like ding, someone just logged into your MacBook.

• 39:06Speaker 01

  Your boyfriend is on your,

• 39:08Alex Cooper?

  Stop. And did you confront? Did you end it?

• 39:12Speaker 01

  It was already on the way out.

• 39:13Alex Cooper?

  Okay.

• 39:14Speaker 01

  It was like,

• 39:15Alex Cooper?

  Good to know?

• 39:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:16Alex Cooper?

  Have you ever gone through a phone?

• 39:17Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. Are you kidding? Especially with shady guys, like full on.

• 39:24Alex Cooper?

  How do you get in?

• 39:25Speaker 01

  Oh, girls, any girl who says, I would never is a liar.

• 39:30Alex Cooper?

  Oh, my God, it's my favorite hobby back in the day.

• 39:33Speaker 01

  I mean, at some point in your life, a girl's been like, mm, no, I'm gonna, no.

• 39:39Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 39:39Speaker 01

  Something's up.

• 39:40Alex Cooper?

  Mm-hmm.

• 39:41Speaker 01

  It's one thing if something's not up, then you should feel.

• 39:44Alex Cooper?

  It's just a random Sunday.

• 39:45Speaker 01

  Okay, you have trust issues, you gotta figure that out.

• 39:47Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 39:48Speaker 01

  It's one thing if like, the guy is being fully shady and not telling you the truth and you're like, no, I need some concrete evidence.

• 39:55Alex Cooper?

  Go on CIA.

• 39:57Speaker 01

  I'm gonna figure this out, then you get it, and then, fuck, yeah. Oh, I've had, I mean, please, yes, it's, it's, it was a fabulous game.

• 40:06Alex Cooper?

  Okay, but when you play the game and you find things, how do you handle it? Because most of the time, they're like, oh, it's Nolan Void, you went through my fucking phone, you crazy bitch.

• 40:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, okay, it doesn't matter, but you're out of my life, like, so what are we talking about?

• 40:19Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, say it, God, because now I'm never gonna see you again. Like, that's.

• 40:25Speaker 01

  This is great.

• 40:26Alex Cooper?

  But I'm really like, I, I'm, like, you would have to be doing something crazy, really shitty. You know what I mean? Like, oh, no.

• 40:37Speaker 01

  Like, you wouldn't care.

• 40:38Alex Cooper?

  You're telling me one thing and doing another, and I'm not gonna do that, so I'm gonna find out, and then.

• 40:44Speaker 01

  I also did do the thing too, which was fun, where you just lie. Yeah, where you're just like, no, I read it. I, I, I read it, I read this. Or I know you were here, how do you know that?

• 40:58Alex Cooper?

  Because I have a friend that's the bartender, and she was there and she saw you.

• 41:01Speaker 01

  Oh, it's so fun. Done all of it.

• 41:03Alex Cooper?

  And that's the best, is when you know they've fucked you over, and then you come up with the best lie of all time, and it's like, oh my, I'm an Olympian.

• 41:12Speaker 01

  And they're like sweating, God.

• 41:14Alex Cooper?

  And you're like, you know what's really sad, I used to do this, is like, I know everything, and then they'd go like pale white, and I'd be like, so, I told you, like, I know everyone in New York. So when you go to the Great White, and you're there and you're having drinks with her, like, what'd you think I was gonna, do you think I wasn't gonna know? And he's like shitting his pants, meanwhile, didn't have any friends at the Great White, just saw on his phone that he was like, meet me at the Great White. But you make it up, and then you get out of it unscathed.

• 41:40Speaker 01

  But people wonder why women should rule the world, because we're incredibly resourceful.

• 41:44Alex Cooper?

  Period.

• 41:47Speaker 01

  It's like, guys.

• 41:49Alex Cooper?

  No.

• 41:50Speaker 01

  We're gonna strategize this and by the end of it, you're gonna be sweating bullets and I'm gonna leave you. So.

• 41:56Alex Cooper?

  Right, the difference is, we get notifications that you're hacking into our computers. We come up with lies, you didn't even know we went into your fucking iPhone.

• 42:02Speaker 01

  I know, guys are so funny. I, I, I love guys so much because they're ju- they're quite, they're very simple.

• 42:09Alex Cooper?

  They're, yeah.

• 42:10Speaker 01

  Not that they're not like complex and, you know, but like, this, the, the, the, the foundation of how men work isn't that challenging.

• 42:19Alex Cooper?

  It's not.

• 42:19Speaker 01

  They're super straightforward.

• 42:21Alex Cooper?

  True.

• 42:22Speaker 01

  And I think we expect them to be more complicated.

• 42:28Alex Cooper?

  Oh, we give them more credit, for sure.

• 42:29Speaker 01

  Than it actually is.

• 42:30Alex Cooper?

  Half the time if they're giving you, like, if you get a weird vibe, the weird vibe is right. Like, they're cheating, or they're doing, like.

• 42:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:37Alex Cooper?

  Sometimes women will be like, well, maybe it's because his grandmother was not feeling well, so maybe he's been acting weird. No, no, no, it's what you think it is, he's cheating.

• 42:44Speaker 01

  Or, yeah, or like, if there's like, three burner phones, like, there's a problem. You know what I mean? It's gonna get weird at some point. Like, if you see a burner phone and a dob kit, just run. It's not gonna be a good ending.

• 42:59Alex Cooper?

  Right, and even-

• 43:00Speaker 01

  Which has happened to a couple of friends of mine where I'm like.

• 43:02Alex Cooper?

  No.

• 43:03Speaker 01

  What do you do if you see this in the, I'm like, oh my god, babe.

• 43:07Alex Cooper?

  Run.

• 43:07Speaker 01

  Well, first look on the, on it, cause it's, I, I would love to know.

• 43:12Alex Cooper?

  We need the thrill.

• 43:12Speaker 01

  You gotta know.

• 43:13Alex Cooper?

  I wanna know.

• 43:14Speaker 01

  We gotta have something to talk about over dinner.

• 43:16Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 43:17Speaker 01

  Or like, take it, just steal it. Just like, take the phone and then never talk to him again.

• 43:23Alex Cooper?

  And then you call the number, you meet up with the girl, you get cocktails, you laugh about it. No, you have to look at it though, you're right. It's comedy, because men are, sometimes men are so dense. I also love men, and sometimes men are so simple, and they're really just showing you their cards immediately.

• 43:39Speaker 01

  You're, how old are you?

• 43:40Alex Cooper?

  Twenty-nine.

• 43:41Speaker 01

  Okay, so you're like, see, I'm in the age where everyone's married.

• 43:45Alex Cooper?

  Okay.

• 43:45Speaker 01

  And we live vicariously through our late twenties, like, we're early thirties friends.

• 43:49Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 43:50Speaker 01

  Where we're like, oh, let me tell you the story when I, now we're all like, you know, like, it's like, we're in the, okay, are you, are you, is, is, is your husband gonna go to the four-year-old's birthday party? Or are the girls going to this birthday? How many fucking birthday parties are there this weekend? What are we doing? Are we just staying home? Like, it's just very nor- now we're in like-

• 44:14Alex Cooper?

  You're in the normal.

• 44:15Speaker 01

  We're in the, we're in the raising kids phase, which is just like soccer games, baseball games, birthday parties.

• 44:23Alex Cooper?

  There's no like- There's no burner phone.

• 44:25Speaker 01

  No, no, and that's, no, yeah.

• 44:27Alex Cooper?

  But sometimes we want a little burner phone.

• 44:29Speaker 01

  Someone can, I have a friend who has someone with a burner phone.

• 44:33Alex Cooper?

  But sometimes you want a little burner phone action. So, no, I think that's such a good point, though. It's like, ladies, stop ignoring the fucking signs. If it's right in front of you, it's probably what it looks like.

• 44:44Speaker 01

  But it's hard.

• 44:45Alex Cooper?

  I know.

• 44:46Speaker 01

  You have friends who are more dramatic than others, and we all have to like, let each other go through it.

• 44:50Alex Cooper?

  True.

• 44:50Speaker 01

  I just don't like when people, like, we know when it turns and it's unhealthy, that we need to like, rally around our friends.

• 44:57Alex Cooper?

  True.

• 44:57Speaker 01

  Like, if something is not right, and they're kind of stuck in a really unhealthy-

• 45:03Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 45:04Speaker 01

  And it's like, not funny anymore.

• 45:06Alex Cooper?

  Yes, when it's not funny anymore.

• 45:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, then you're like, okay, you know what? What's going on?

• 45:12Alex Cooper?

  It's almost like when the girl dinners, because every, all girlfriends talk about each other, and it's not even like, behind your back. It's like, oh god, she's with him again. Like, we know he's gonna cheat again, and we love her to death. From that, when it gets to like, I don't even want to fucking hear about it, like, you've literally exhausted all of us, that's when it gets scary. Cause you're like, now you've alienated yourself, and we feel bad, as opposed to be like, Jessica, what are you doing with him again?

• 45:32Speaker 01

  And we can't help you, you know, it's like, or, or like, support it. That, that's when it gets-

• 45:38Alex Cooper?

  That's hard.

• 45:38Speaker 01

  Hard, yeah.

• 45:39Alex Cooper?

  That's hard. Okay, he's really close friends with his ex.

• 45:42Speaker 01

  Oh, interesting. Ha, like, how close is close?

• 45:46Alex Cooper?

  Like, they get lunch, I would say, every month, every other month, and they-

• 45:55Speaker 01

  Do they have a kid?

• 45:56Alex Cooper?

  Nope.

• 45:57Speaker 01

  Oh, problematic.

• 46:00Speaker 01

  For me, personally.

• 46:01Alex Cooper?

  For me too.

• 46:02Speaker 01

  If they had a kid, I'd be like, oh, this is family, and we have to like, bring her all in, you know? And my other thing is like, if I'm going to have dinner with her, and then you're gonna go have lunch with her, we're good. If we're all besties, like, my best friend was my ex's. Ex-girlfriend.

• 46:22Alex Cooper?

  Hold on.

• 46:22Speaker 01

  And when we, well, it's not as complicated as it sounds. Basically, I met my best friend through my ex-husband.

• 46:29Alex Cooper?

  Okay.

• 46:30Speaker 01

  Who used to date her.

• 46:32Alex Cooper?

  Oh, fascinating.

• 46:32Speaker 01

  So when I was married to him, I met her, we became best friends.

• 46:37Alex Cooper?

  Got it. And that was his ex?

• 46:38Speaker 01

  And that was his ex. But I, but, but we were, we were, loved each other.

• 46:43Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 46:43Speaker 01

  There was no like, I'm gonna go have dinner with, or lunch with my ex-girlfriend and...

• 46:50Alex Cooper?

  You were included.

• 46:51Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. And, and she'd rather be with me than hang out with him. So like, that makes sense to me.

• 46:58Alex Cooper?

  I agree. I think it does depend sometimes on like, did you meet the, like, did you know the ex? This is fucking confusing me. Like, did you know the person before or after? Like, if my best friend became best friends with my ex, I'd be like, why the, where's the fucking loyalty? Like, you didn't know him before me. I think, you know what I mean?

• 47:21Speaker 01

  Okay, wait, wait, wait, wait.

• 47:22Alex Cooper?

  Okay, here we go.

• 47:23Speaker 01

  You mean, if your bestie?

• 47:25Alex Cooper?

  I'm dating a guy.

• 47:26Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 47:27Alex Cooper?

  And my best friend meets him, likes him, woo, we break up, and she stays friends with him? Odd.

• 47:34Speaker 01

  It depends.

• 47:35Alex Cooper?

  I guess it depends how it ended, how it ended.

• 47:38Speaker 01

  It depends.

• 47:38Alex Cooper?

  He ruined my life. He cheated on me.

• 47:41Speaker 01

  I mean...

• 47:43Alex Cooper?

  It's tough.

• 47:44Speaker 01

  That's a tough one. Because I think it would be like, you know, it, it also depends on if you... Like, is she kinda into him?

• 47:55Alex Cooper?

  Right, that's fair.

• 47:56Speaker 01

  You can kinda feel when it's easy or when it isn't.

• 47:58Alex Cooper?

  No, I think, I think it's also just about like, respect. Like, communicate with your fucking friends. If you're staying friends with your girl's ex, and you guys are like, in love, well...

• 48:09Speaker 01

  Okay, I'm gonna give you a scenario.

• 48:10Alex Cooper?

  Okay.

• 48:11Speaker 01

  You're not friends with this girl. You're, you've, you have mutual friend groups.

• 48:16Alex Cooper?

  Okay.

• 48:16Speaker 01

  Okay? Mutual friend groups, that, you know, run into each other here and there at a party. Oh, hey, nice to see you. Like, oh, good, oh, good. She breaks up with her boyfriend.

• 48:26Alex Cooper?

  Okay.

• 48:28Speaker 01

  I don't know, whenever, six months, a year later, you end up with the boyfriend.

• 48:33Alex Cooper?

  Boyfriend.

• 48:33Speaker 01

  Does she have a right to be mad at you?

• 48:36Alex Cooper?

  Okay, you said the only moment I hang out with her is like in big friend groups.

• 48:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, she's she's around.

• 48:42Alex Cooper?

  Like, like, like, maybe you share a friend. We've never gone to a alone lunch.

• 48:46Speaker 01

  You don't text, you don't.

• 48:47Alex Cooper?

  No, oh my god, she can't be mad.

• 48:48Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 48:48Alex Cooper?

  Absolutely not.

• 48:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, there's a lot of people who would say otherwise, and I'm like, that's crazy.

• 48:53Alex Cooper?

  That's networking. How are we supposed to meet anyone?

• 48:57Speaker 01

  I don't know you.

• 48:58Alex Cooper?

  Right, like, if.

• 48:59Speaker 01

  You can't be mad at me?

• 49:00Alex Cooper?

  No, that's crazy.

• 49:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:02Alex Cooper?

  That's fucking crazy. It's, it's, if it's your best friend.

• 49:05Speaker 01

  That's it, I'm.

• 49:06Alex Cooper?

  That's it. It's all that matters.

• 49:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, if it's like even, even like a close friend.

• 49:09Alex Cooper?

  A close friend, of course.

• 49:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:11Alex Cooper?

  Then you can have a conversation of like, this is also tough where it's like, it's awkward if like.

• 49:15Speaker 01

  But like, girls who throw shade to girls that like are dating, but they don't know them, I, I think that's, I think that's weird.

• 49:22Alex Cooper?

  No, you gotta move on. And I also think if you don't have their phone number, you owe them literally nothing.

• 49:27Speaker 01

  I agree.

• 49:29Alex Cooper?

  Okay.

• 49:30Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 49:30Alex Cooper?

  I like that.

• 49:31Speaker 01

  We're, we're moving on.

• 49:32Alex Cooper?

  He has an extremely high sex drive and is trying to go every day, twice a day.

• 49:40Speaker 01

  I mean, I'm not mad at it.

• 49:44Speaker 01

  First of all, twice a, I mean, it'd be one thing if it's like, four times a day.

• 49:50Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 49:50Speaker 01

  You'd be like, this is, like, we're exhausted.

• 49:53Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 49:53Speaker 01

  And, and like, this is like, kinda weird, because like, what happens when I'm, have to like, leave.

• 50:00Alex Cooper?

  Leave.

• 50:00Speaker 01

  For a week.

• 50:01Alex Cooper?

  True.

• 50:02Speaker 01

  Like, is this like?

• 50:03Alex Cooper?

  Like, is this something you need every day regardless of whether I'm here or not?

• 50:07Speaker 01

  And it also depends on, I mean, his age.

• 50:11Alex Cooper?

  Uh huh.

• 50:11Speaker 01

  Cause it would sort of determine whether or not he was.

• 50:13Alex Cooper?

  Just going through it?

• 50:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, or like, if he was young, like, that would make sense.

• 50:18Alex Cooper?

  Mm hmm.

• 50:18Speaker 01

  If he's like, forty something, like, men's libidos kinda go down at late twenties.

• 50:23Alex Cooper?

  Right, so he's like a sex addict.

• 50:25Speaker 01

  So like, if his libido's at high, it's like, what are you on?

• 50:28Alex Cooper?

  Literally.

• 50:29Speaker 01

  It's like, I always, I always say it's about women, especially as women get older, there's sort of this concept around women that they should become less sexual as they get older. But the reality is, is that women, as we get older, our, our libidos get more intensified to a certain age than men's. So it's sort of like this. Made up thing?

• 50:53Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 50:53Speaker 01

  That women as we get older are supposed to be.

• 50:57Alex Cooper?

  Right, like died out, like we're not even having sex, we're not sexual.

• 51:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, when it's, it's, it's literally the, the opposite.

• 51:03Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 51:03Speaker 01

  So somewhere down the line, men didn't really want women to be very sexy as they got older.

• 51:08Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 51:09Speaker 01

  I think. So they kind of made it so like, oh no, like if you're no longer, you know, mating for us.

• 51:20Alex Cooper?

  Right, right.

• 51:20Speaker 01

  Then you should just go over here.

• 51:22Alex Cooper?

  So true.

• 51:23Speaker 01

  When in reality, it's like women into their 40s, sometimes 50s are like very much.

• 51:30Alex Cooper?

  Sexual.

• 51:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:48Alex Cooper?

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• 52:33Alex Cooper?

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• 53:15Alex Cooper?

  I'm like, oh, I really like the sweater. And then all of a sudden, like shop the whole look. And then there's the pants, and then there's the purse, and then there's the shoes, and then there's the jewelry, and then there's the sunglasses. And I'm like, oh, my God, I just put all this in my car and I never, I didn't have to do much. It's really nice. Also, you can find the best brands. Keep coming back to shop new arrivals daily and find inclusive sizing. Listen, hot girl energy, hot mom energy, whatever era you're in, Revolve has the outfit for it. Revolve has the hottest brands, new arrivals dropping daily, and pieces you'll wear over and over again. Go to revolve.com/chd and use code C H D for 15% off your first order. Did I read this correctly that your therapist once told you to take a break from men for a year?

• 53:59Speaker 01

  Yeah. Where did you, where did I say that? Yeah. I took like a full year off.

• 54:04Alex Cooper?

  You did it?

• 54:06Speaker 01

  It was, I was like, what?

• 54:09Alex Cooper?

  Wait.

• 54:09Speaker 01

  I couldn't flirt. No, yeah, none of it. But it was great.

• 54:13Alex Cooper?

  What, how old were you when you did this?

• 54:16Speaker 01

  Thirty something. I, I just, I was like at that place where I was like, I don't want to keep repeating any patterns anymore. I have a great therapist who was like, I'm, I can help you, but you have to like, do it.

• 54:30Alex Cooper?

  Right. You gotta like, get off the sauce, Kate.

• 54:31Speaker 01

  He's like, get off the sauce. And well, my thing is I would get distracted, you know.

• 54:36Alex Cooper?

  Right. You like to flirt. You like voice. You said you love voice.

• 54:40Speaker 01

  I just love the, I love the, you know, like, ooh, this is fun. I'm gonna text this person. But it was really interesting because it, he took me, like, basically, I was like, okay, well, I guess I'm, I can't even text guys.

• 54:54Alex Cooper?

  You couldn't flirt? If a guy came up to you, you're like, just not interested?

• 54:57Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, I could talk to them, but I, I was like, there's no, I couldn't give them my number. So I'd be like, they'd be like, can I have your number? I'd be like, you know?

• 55:06Alex Cooper?

  No.

• 55:07Speaker 01

  No. Like, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not there right now. But it was strangely empowering because it got very uncomfortable for me in the beginning, like the first couple of months. I was like, You know, my mojo was like, I was just like, oh, God, I was like, I might, I was like, you know, you know, just felt like I hadn't, I was like, what, what am I doing?

• 55:34Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 55:34Speaker 01

  Like, I, I, I'm not like.

• 55:36Alex Cooper?

  Not me.

• 55:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's just, it's not fun, you know, and so I was like, well,

• 55:43Speaker 01

  and then because we were going through various specific type of therapy, it was really about like,

• 55:50Speaker 01

  figuring out certain things that were happening with me. And then I had this one sort of breakthrough.

• 56:00Speaker 01

  That was very emotional that I don't think I would have been able to access if I had any distraction. So like, it allowed me to see things much more clearly. And then, within six months, I was like, I didn't care about my phone. I didn't care about, like, if I was gonna go out meet my girlfriends, I wasn't like, that thing where I'm like, oh, I wonder if so and so would be there or.

• 56:26Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 56:26Speaker 01

  Like, oh, we should maybe call up so and so and then do that, you know? There was no desire for me to be doing anything that had anything to do with potential, you know, flirtation.

• 56:41Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 56:42Speaker 01

  So,

• 56:45Speaker 01

  then when I was in with, you know, doing that, and I remember my therapist a year later was like, okay, you can, I think you can flirt again. I was like, what? I can flirt? And he's like, yeah. I was like, what does that mean? Like, how do I flirt? I like, forgot. And then I remember like all these guys would start texting and I'd be like, I didn't have the same attachment to it anymore. It just, it just went away. It was like, I didn't get that like, ooh, you know? I, I was just like, oh, no, no, it just didn't have the same like pull.

• 57:19Alex Cooper?

  Interesting.

• 57:20Speaker 01

  It, it sort of became, and then the guys that I would normally have been like, ooh, was like, no.

• 57:28Alex Cooper?

  That's, that's incredible.

• 57:30Speaker 01

  Pretty amazing.

• 57:30Alex Cooper?

  So you lasted the year?

• 57:32Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, I'm very disciplined.

• 57:35Alex Cooper?

  Damn.

• 57:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 57:36Alex Cooper?

  It was good. One year.

• 57:38Speaker 01

  One year and.

• 57:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:42Alex Cooper?

  It's pretty incredible.

• 57:43Speaker 01

  I did love it a lot longer because I was, then I was so happy single. I was single for like three and a half years.

• 57:48Alex Cooper?

  Being single is incredible. If you're like in the right place and like you're mentally focused on yourself. You're like, I am fucking great. I don't need anyone. And that's where you want to get to when you're single.

• 57:56Speaker 01

  I love it.

• 57:57Alex Cooper?

  I have empathy for women that when you get through, out of a relationship, you almost have those withdrawal symptoms of like, oh my God, I'm used to having a partner. I'm used to having them here. And then you get good at being alone. You're like.

• 58:07Speaker 01

  And I don't think if I would have done that, if I would have, if I didn't do that, I would never have ended up with Danny, you know?

• 58:14Alex Cooper?

  Let's talk about Danny.

• 58:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, because Danny, like, he's just, he's just such a good man. And I'm not so sure I was like attracted to the good man.

• 58:26Speaker 01

  I mean, I was attracted to good men, but like, you know, that, the uncomplicated kind of,

• 58:34Speaker 01

  I liked a feisty, wild type. And whereas Danny has that in him, his values are very sturdy. And he's such a lovely person. And I would have never, I think, allowed that in if I didn't take those three years of just being so happy in my life alone.

• 58:58Alex Cooper?

  But I think that's a great thing for like all the women listening to think about. It's like, when you're single, you get anxious of like, okay, like I need to find who's my next person. Like, oh my gosh, like, my clock, like, what am I gonna do? And it's like, if you just chill, half the time when you get to the end, you're like, oh, I don't need anyone. Like, they gotta be fucking great if I find someone.

• 59:19Speaker 01

  There's this really funny, like, I, I'm, I'm, I see, I of course get fed all these like Aries memes. And there's this one where they're like, I'm an Aries, of course I da da da. Like, and there was one person who goes, I was like, I'm an Aries, like, of course I love to be in relationships. And then he's like, you like me back? Like, and just ran, runs in the other direction. I think there's a little bit of like the Aries thing, which is like, we like newness.

• 59:45Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 59:46Speaker 01

  Adventure. You know, like excitement.

• 59:50Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 59:51Speaker 01

  So like the sort of good man, like solid relationship is like areas, I think, a little bit in our head of like, a little bit like, is this gonna like, is there gonna be something that's gonna keep this interesting? Or is this the rest of my life? And I, I think a lot of like fire signs would relate to this.

• 1:00:12Alex Cooper?

  Uh huh.

• 1:00:13Speaker 01

  So I, so for me, that those three years was like, oh, I'm actually like really love.

• 1:00:21Speaker 01

  I loved being without, um, because I was so happy alone. Like I, the, that, that sort of like excitement thing was like, I don't, that's actually not really.

• 1:00:35Alex Cooper?

  You don't need it.

• 1:00:36Speaker 01

  What's gonna?

• 1:00:36Alex Cooper?

  You're like, I'm exciting. I excite myself.

• 1:00:39Speaker 01

  That's right. It's like, I can, I can create my own new, newness.

• 1:00:44Alex Cooper?

  You and Danny had known each other for 15 years before you guys got together?

• 1:00:50Speaker 01

  I met Danny when I was 23, pregnant with Ryder and Danny was in high school. Yeah.

• 1:00:56Alex Cooper?

  Who made the first move?

• 1:00:58Speaker 01

  Danny. Yeah, he was very, very slow, slow burn. So slow, I was like, I was like, this is getting, this is weird. Like, is this, is, is this like a thing or is this like not a thing? You know? He's really cute. He's really great.

• 1:01:14Alex Cooper?

  That's so cute.

• 1:01:15Speaker 01

  I know, he's the best. I honestly, like, I'm, I'm just, it's like, I'm so happy.

• 1:01:22Alex Cooper?

  Good for you, cuz I, I think it's like incredible when you find, I, I love when you find people in your life that you like, I can tell you're like, you're glowing when you talk about him.

• 1:01:32Speaker 01

  I could just like, you know, I, I really believe that there's a lot of different people in your life that you could have, right? It's like, the options are endless.

• 1:01:41Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:41Speaker 01

  When people are like. I can't find anybody. I'm like, hmm, you're not looking in the right places. Like, there's somebody for everybody. You have to just be open to it. And it has to, and you have to let the expectation go.

• 1:01:55Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:55Speaker 01

  Like, he's not gonna look the way you want him to look. And he's might not, you know, all this like, this is my vision board. Like, be comfortable if the person on your vision board is the opposite

• 1:02:05Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 1:02:05Speaker 01

  of who the guy you ended up falling in love with is. Because I really believe that like, part of what stops us from experiencing like, great love is that we are shrinking the idea down to something really small. And so we're not open to.

• 1:02:23Alex Cooper?

  Right. Like, you may be with someone that's right in front of you, but you're like, but that's not what I wanted. And you're like, but if it's right, it's right.

• 1:02:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:02:29Alex Cooper?

  Like, don't run away just because it's not your vision board, bitch. Like, throw out Pinterest.

• 1:02:33Speaker 01

  That's right. That's right. But it's good to have vision boards. I like it. But like, but like, be open to something totally different.

• 1:02:39Alex Cooper?

  What does independence look like for you in a relationship?

• 1:02:43Speaker 01

  Great question. Oh, this question's so important. I think like, it's so hard because communication. I think in order to be in, truly have like independence, you have to be good communicators. Because everyone's idea of their needs are so different, you know? And I am very independent. The other thing about Danny, he's so like, he just like lets me.

• 1:03:16Alex Cooper?

  Be you.

• 1:03:17Speaker 01

  Be me. And I, it's like, I could, you know, I could be like, I really want to go out with my girlfriends tonight, and I really want to be with you. Be like, go babe, go. And I could like be out till four in the morning, end up on something, and come back like, oh my God, I had the craziest night. I did it. And he's just like, totally okay with it. Like, and in a, in a, in a good way. He loves when I'm happy. And.

• 1:03:46Speaker 01

  It was the, if it's the other way around, I'm like,

• 1:03:48Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:49Speaker 01

  Why were you out?

• 1:03:49Alex Cooper?

  Hold on a second.

• 1:03:50Speaker 01

  What were you up to?

• 1:03:52Alex Cooper?

  Four in the morning?

• 1:03:53Speaker 01

  Who, what could you have been doing?

• 1:03:55Alex Cooper?

  Whose car did you end up in?

• 1:03:57Speaker 01

  No, literally saying. No, but I, I, I am, but I really did like, but like, independence is like what works for you. Like what might work for me doesn't work for him. So in order for me to feel independent, I think you have to communicate what that is like. My thing is, I just want to be told. You know, like just tell me that you're, you know, where you are. Like tell me what you need and then I'm good. What I don't, I'm, I have a hard time with like not knowing.

• 1:04:32Alex Cooper?

  Right, right.

• 1:04:33Speaker 01

  Some people are fine with not knowing. They're much more comfortable with that, secure with it. My thing's like, if you tell me that you're gonna call me at 11, but you call me at two, like, that's gonna not create independence.

• 1:04:46Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:47Speaker 01

  For either of us.

• 1:04:48Alex Cooper?

  No, I think it's a great point.

• 1:04:49Speaker 01

  I could talk about this shit all day long. I love it.

• 1:04:51Alex Cooper?

  I could talk to you forever because I love having insightful conversations where we don't have the same background. So I'm interested to hear like, ooh, like what is your take on this?

• 1:05:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm also like a full disclaimer. I should just wear like, I don't know what I'm talking about.

• 1:05:06Alex Cooper?

  Me either, but it's fine.

• 1:05:07Speaker 01

  For me, I'm also like, I'm saying this,

• 1:05:10Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:10Speaker 01

  but I also am very happy to be wrong.

• 1:05:13Alex Cooper?

  No, but women should run the world. So like, okay. This album, I think it's incredible because like I said, you have an incredible voice, but the songwriting is phenomenal. And knowing that you said you have like hundreds of songs, just like

• 1:05:26Speaker 01

  So many songs.

• 1:05:27Alex Cooper?

  in your house, how did you decide what you were gonna put into this album?

• 1:05:31Speaker 01

  We just started fresh.

• 1:05:32Alex Cooper?

  Okay.

• 1:05:32Speaker 01

  There was no like, I mean, there's, there's two songs on there that, that I wrote before I started writing with Linda. And then after we got out of the studio writing with Linda Perry, who's a, a writer on a lot of it. We went back, Dan and I went back and I, we kind of. You know, restructured two other songs that I had written before.

• 1:05:54Alex Cooper?

  Okay.

• 1:05:54Speaker 01

  But they there it's all like of that time.

• 1:05:58Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:58Speaker 01

  You know, so.

• 1:05:59Alex Cooper?

  Well, that's why I'm like listening to like the push and pull and and moving on like there's a lot. That's why I wanted to talk to you about you, and I think that's when people connect the most with lyrics, when they get to know someone more. And I can I'm telling you, my fans fucking love music. So they're gonna be like, okay, now that we know Kate more, the lyrics will.

• 1:06:17Speaker 01

  Honestly, it's like such a it's it's it's like because I waited so long to put something out. It was really important that there it was it was reflective. So that there was like for me that it was where I'm at now, but that there is a that there's the story of sort of, you know, a life well loved. And whether that be with my son or whether it be in past relationships that didn't work out or where I'm at now in with my Romeo, which was which is, you know, and that's just Danny and I wrote that together and but like, you know, that kind of the the freedom in that song,

• 1:07:03Speaker 01

  you know, um, and I have always been a hopeless romantic. And I'm gonna take the word hopeless out of it because I actually feel that there's there's I'm a hopeful romantic, you know? It's like and the hardest songs for me to write are the hopeful ones. And that was so important for me in this because I'm so like my brain loves a depressing song. Like I I mean, if you go into my vault of music, it's just there's so much depressing shit in there. It's crazy and it will come out at some point.

• 1:07:41Alex Cooper?

  Okay, good.

• 1:07:42Speaker 01

  I I really like I have to.

• 1:07:44Alex Cooper?

  We need a good cry, Kate.

• 1:07:45Speaker 01

  I have to. But like for me with this, I wanted it to feel like what the album title is. Like there's to to to love fully is a glorious experience and it it it comes to you in so many different ways. And like we're talking about like if you're open to it, then you. You know, you're then you're, I think you're living a really like well-loved life, as long as you're a good person, treating people respectfully and you're

• 1:08:10Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:11Speaker 01

  honest.

• 1:08:12Alex Cooper?

  No, I can't thank you enough for coming on. Like, I had such a fabulous time getting to know you and I'm so excited that I got to sit with you for this long to like, talk about all the girl things, but talk about the music because it is intertwined. Like you said, like, this is a, this album is about love and like the experiences that you've had. And I think it's inspiring, honestly. I think some people feel like constrained to like, that was the one love of my life. You can have so many loves of your lives and you can have so many loves and you can love people in different ways and you shouldn't look at back at your past in negative way. Like, every chapter is a new chapter and just like lean in and have a good time.

• 1:08:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, and like gonna find out is like about not wanting a relationship.

• 1:08:49Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 1:08:49Speaker 01

  You know, it's about being in that.

• 1:08:51Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, for three years.

• 1:08:53Speaker 01

  You know, that's kind of like a song about when you just wanna like, when you don't, that, that like little, you know, like spark that you have with someone where you're just like, is this gonna go down, you know?

• 1:09:06Alex Cooper?

  Okay, last question, then I know you have to go. What is your favorite song?

• 1:09:10Speaker 01

  I have to go make out with a guy. I have one scene to do today.

• 1:09:13Alex Cooper?

  Stop.

• 1:09:13Speaker 01

  I'm making out with a total stranger.

• 1:09:15Alex Cooper?

  What?

• 1:09:15Speaker 01

  I've been like really stressing about this.

• 1:09:18Alex Cooper?

  Oh my God, and you're coughing?

• 1:09:20Speaker 01

  I, I have COVID.

• 1:09:22Alex Cooper?

  Fuck.

• 1:09:22Speaker 01

  I'm not telling him.

• 1:09:23Alex Cooper?

  Wait, you have to make out? Like full make out time?

• 1:09:26Speaker 01

  I have to like make out with this random guy.

• 1:09:29Alex Cooper?

  How long? How many days?

• 1:09:31Speaker 01

  You will see it on Netflix at some point.

• 1:09:33Alex Cooper?

  Stop.

• 1:09:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't, I don't know, but I've, I've been like having anxiety over this.

• 1:09:37Alex Cooper?

  How do you get mentally prepared for that?

• 1:09:39Speaker 01

  You just, I don't know, I've never, what I do is I'm channeling Emma Stone in, in, um, you know.

• 1:09:46Alex Cooper?

  Poor Things.

• 1:09:47Speaker 01

  Poor Things.

• 1:09:48Alex Cooper?

  Poor Things. You're channeling Emma Stone, Poor Things.

• 1:09:51Speaker 01

  If she could do that.

• 1:09:53Alex Cooper?

  You can do this.

• 1:09:54Speaker 01

  I can do this.

• 1:09:54Alex Cooper?

  Come on.

• 1:09:55Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? I can make out with some random guy.

• 1:09:58Alex Cooper?

  Easy.

• 1:09:59Speaker 01

  And a, yeah, so.

• 1:10:01Alex Cooper?

  Well, thank you so much for coming on. This was truly so fun.

• 1:10:04Speaker 01

  This was fabulous.

• 1:10:05Alex Cooper?

  Thank you.

• 1:10:20Alex Cooper?

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