I’m Single at 50 and Devastatingly Lonely

On today’s episode, we hear about: A man desperate to experience physical touch in his 50s A mom who refuses to be part of her daughter’s wedding A young woman struggling to find friends in her 20s Next Steps: 📞 Ask John a question! Call 844-693-3291 or send us a message. 📚 Building a Non-Anxious Life 📝 Anxiety Test 📚 Own Your Past, Change Your Future ❓ Questions for Humans Conversation Cards 💭 John’s Free Guided Meditation 🤘🏼 The Dr. John Delony Show Merch Connect With Our Sponsors: Get 10% off your first month of BetterHelp. Get up to 40% off with code DELONY at Cozy Earth. Get 20% off when you join DeleteMe. Visit Hallow for a 90-day free trial. Visit Helix Sleep for special offers! Explore Poncho Outdoors! Get 25% off your order at Thorne. Explore More From Ramsey Network: 🎙️ The Ramsey Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights 🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show 💰 George Kamel 🪑 Front Row Seat with Ken Coleman 📈 EntreLeadership Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:05Speaker 00

  I'm in my 50s, never married, no kids, and I've been feeling a bit embarrassed about this the last few days. I'm looking for help on handling times of feeling sad over not having a firming touch in my life.

• 0:19Dr. John Delony?

  If you don't mind me asking, feel free to just pass on this question.

• 0:28Dr. John Delony?

  What is going on? What's up? What's up? This is John of the Dr. John Deloney Show coming to you from Nashville, Tennessee. Hope you are doing well. We're taking calls from all over the planet on your mental and emotional health, your physical health, everything going on in your life, your relationships, your kids, all of it. You want to be on the show? Go to johndeloney.com/ask, A-S-K. Let's roll out to Columbus, Ohio and talk to Andy. What up, Andy?

• 0:56Speaker 00

  So, um, my question is, and I've been feeling a bit embarrassed about this the last few days because it seems trivial compared to a lot of people's. But I'm in my 50s, never married, no kids, never really had a significant other. And I'm looking for help on handling times of feeling sad, frustrating, frustrated, probably even grief over not having a firming touch in my life. You know, other than the occasional quick 1.5 second hug.

• 1:36Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah. Man. And I can imagine this is, it's embarrassing for you to make this call. Can I just say thank you?

• 1:48Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 1:49Dr. John Delony?

  Like, that's not an easy call to make, man. And I'm grateful that you did because I know, I read the data. There's millions of people in your same situation. Tell me, um, as far back as you can remember, when you can remember wanting to be touched, wanting to be held, wanting to, uh... When did touch become a scary thing or a bad thing or a thing you were missing?

• 2:15Speaker 00

  Um, it became a, it felt like it was always an issue, I guess. Um, the, I was sexually abused when I was pretty young. And, um,

• 2:31Dr. John Delony?

  Hey, Andy, real quick, Andy, real quick. I'm sorry, man. I'm sorry.

• 2:38Speaker 00

  Thanks.

• 2:39Dr. John Delony?

  Like, for, for real, for real.

• 2:44Speaker 00

  The family that I was, my family did not touch. I mean, um, they're just, you know, there wasn't hugs, there wasn't playful touching. Um, just wasn't there. And so I grew up feeling like it was just wrong for me to, um, it was just like, that must be something for somebody, everybody else, you know? And, um, it's been a struggle to, um, you know, I mentioned the occasional 1.5 hug, those are, are 1.5 second hugs. Those are actually a pretty big deal to me because that's a victory to be able to,

• 3:30Speaker 00

  you know, even enjoy those. Um, but I, um, yeah, I mean, just that history has been there.

• 3:40Dr. John Delony?

  Man.

• 3:45Dr. John Delony?

  If you don't mind me asking, and feel free to just pass on this question. Um, was the person that abused you or the people that abused you, were they inside your home? Or were they guests to your home?

• 3:58Speaker 00

  Uh, they were inside the home.

• 3:59Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 4:02Dr. John Delony?

  Has there been justice there? Or have you, um, sat with a therapist and worked through some of that?

• 4:08Speaker 00

  I have been working with a counselor, um, um, on that, on that issue. When it comes to the touch thing, I mean, like in the present, you know, grieving that, we haven't dealt with that a whole lot. Um, I've actually kind of been reluctant to.

• 4:26Dr. John Delony?

  Tell me about that.

• 4:29Speaker 00

  Because I figure that I won't like the answer. Um, there's a, I don't want to have to accept that this is the way it is. Um, you know.

• 4:44Dr. John Delony?

  Tell me about that resignation, because you, you've already, you're paying, you're sitting in front of a therapist and you're scared to ask a question because in your mind, you've already created the answer and then you've already pre-grieved and felt that answer. And I wouldn't give you the answer that you're afraid of getting.

• 5:07Dr. John Delony?

  Tell me about that.

• 5:08Speaker 00

  What's the question again?

• 5:09Dr. John Delony?

  Well, so you're, you've already resigned yourself.

• 5:14Speaker 00

  Right.

• 5:14Dr. John Delony?

  To asking a question that terrifies you, which is, what do I do about being in my 50s, having never had a long-term romantic partner, this devastating sense of loneliness? And at our core, this sense that you've had from early, early on, A, we don't touch. Love doesn't require touch. In fact, love avoids touch, as well as somebody or some people are going to take touch and weaponize it.

• 5:49Dr. John Delony?

  And so, like, and then you, you think that the answer is going to be, yeah, that's just the way that's going to be. You're in your 50s and you're just not going to have it. And I don't think that's true. And so I'm wondering where the resignation comes in, because here's what usually happens. People who are starved from touch and people who are sexually abused, usually, not always, but goes one of two ways. I will reclaim my sexuality. I will go in a desperate search for touch. I'll find it everywhere, from anyone.

• 6:19Speaker 00

  Right.

• 6:19Dr. John Delony?

  Or I'm going to continually lock down and lock down and lock down and I find myself in my 50s, surrounded by a bunch of stuff that hasn't filled that gap for me and this, this piercing sense of loneliness.

• 6:36Speaker 00

  I think, um, I don't know. I guess I feel like in bringing it up with my counselor, like you say, I've already, I just feel like that it's not something that.

• 6:51Speaker 00

  I don't know, maybe I feel broken with, maybe I feel like I messed up in some way that just, that nobody would want to touch me.

• 7:00Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 7:01Speaker 00

  Um, um, you know, and, and by touch, I mean, I, I think I'm being clear in this, but I'm not talking about sexual touch, you know, just, you know, the arm around the shoulder that somebody's not afraid to leave there for a while, or, um, um, you know, stuff like that, um.

• 7:19Dr. John Delony?

  Andy, can I, man, let me just tell you, you are not broken in any way, shape, form, or fashion. You're, like, I'm gonna tell you, man, your body's working perfectly. Because touch as a child took everything from you. It took innocence, it took wonder, it took, um, sensuality from you. It was stolen and used for somebody else's good. And on top of that, there was no other, what I would call, good touch. There was no dad that hugged you and, even when you were too big, right?

• 7:54Speaker 00

  Right.

• 7:55Dr. John Delony?

  And put your face up against his chest and said, "I'm glad you're my son." And there was no mom that was always scratching your back and hugging you and grabbing you on the face and looking you in the eye and saying, "I'm so glad I got picked to be your mom." That didn't happen.

• 8:08Speaker 00

  Right.

• 8:09Dr. John Delony?

  So, one, you've got it weaponized, and two, there's no model. It, it makes perfect sense that your body is both, A, apprehensive of any touch, B, desperately wishing for it, and C, there's no map to go get it. Because the people that were supposed to give you that map stole it from you. You're working perfectly, my brother. The question is, do you want to, and it's gonna be an electric fence, do you wanna wade through an electric fence? Climb over an electric fence? And deal with the discomfort and the anxiousness and the fear to get to the other side where touch becomes more of a regular part of your life?

• 8:52Dr. John Delony?

  Or do you wanna stay where it's uncomfortable, but it's safe?

• 9:00Speaker 00

  It's a struggle to not just want to stay where it's uncomfortable to stay.

• 9:04Dr. John Delony?

  I can't, I can't even imagine.

• 9:08Dr. John Delony?

  But that's the two, that's, I rarely say this, those are the two paths in front of you. And I won't, I won't be mad at you, I won't fault you for either of them.

• 9:17Speaker 00

  Right.

• 9:19Dr. John Delony?

  But I don't want you to sit there assuming that you're broken. I think your body's working perfectly for what was laid out for it.

• 9:28Speaker 00

  What does?

• 9:29Dr. John Delony?

  Go ahead.

• 9:30Speaker 00

  Oh, go ahead.

• 9:30Dr. John Delony?

  I was gonna, tell me about, tell me about any romantic attachments you've ever had? Or desires? Have you ever desired, or have you just pretty much?

• 9:39Dr. John Delony?

  The idea of being sexual with somebody, the idea of, of being romantically intimate with somebody is just too much?

• 9:44Speaker 00

  So, in college years, early twenties, you know, I, I did some dating, um, and honestly, um...

• 9:55Dr. John Delony?

  Male or female?

• 9:56Speaker 00

  Uh, female.

• 9:58Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 9:59Speaker 00

  And, um, so, for one thing, it also felt like it would be impossible to be, uh, sexual. Um, and so that was one of the, that was obviously a, a turn off with it. Uh, I, I mean, I just, even when I was so-called dating, there just was not physical touch between us. I just did not want to touch.

• 10:25Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 10:26Speaker 00

  And, uh, since you brought it up, I'll feel free to go there. Um, my primary attractions had been towards men. And because of my Christian beliefs, I, I've chosen to not go that route. Um, um, and I'm at peace with that.

• 10:43Dr. John Delony?

  Oh, sure.

• 10:44Speaker 00

  You know, I mean, that's not what I'm, uh, you know, not what I'm calling about.

• 10:48Dr. John Delony?

  No, no, dude, you don't, you don't have, you don't, you don't owe me any apologies.

• 10:52Speaker 00

  Yeah, just gives you a little more context where I'm at.

• 10:55Dr. John Delony?

  Absolutely, yeah, yeah, totally.

• 10:56Speaker 00

  And that also makes it a little bit tougher for me to trust. Makes me have more fear when it comes to, you know, like, um, hugging buddies and stuff like that. Because I'm afraid of what they will think.

• 11:10Dr. John Delony?

  Gotcha.

• 11:13Dr. John Delony?

  Often that fear is a fear that they're gonna dislike you and be grossed out by you and in some levels hate you as much as you dislike yourself.

• 11:29Speaker 00

  Yeah, that makes sense.

• 11:32Dr. John Delony?

  And so, let me tell you, like, for whatever it's worth, there's jerks everywhere. But most of the time, those fears are in our own hearts and minds and in your case, in your nervous system.

• 11:47Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 11:48Dr. John Delony?

  And what I would suggest to you as part of the healing journey will be giving other people the opportunity to find out what an amazing guy you are.

• 12:04Dr. John Delony?

  And I'm married to a woman. I hug my male friends regularly. A lot. I need that. I tell my male friends I love them with regularity. In fact, I over say it. And quite honestly, they over say it too.

• 12:20Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 12:21Dr. John Delony?

  And I'm all tattooed up. I'm from Texas and I go hunting. I got an elk tag this year, right? I mean, it's like, all the stereotypes, it doesn't matter. And if you have made peace with your romantic interest and your faith beliefs, man, good on you.

• 12:38Dr. John Delony?

  But I also want you to be honest about, and I'll just tell you, the need for human touch is so powerful. It's grounding. It's connecting.

• 12:49Dr. John Delony?

  So can I give you a couple of thoughts just right off the top of my head?

• 12:54Speaker 00

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 12:55Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, um, this is gonna be number one, and this is one I wish wasn't true, but I'm just gonna not ignore the science, okay? You've probably heard me making jokes and making fun of some of my friends publicly and all that. If you haven't already, getting a dog can be a magical, um, step in the right direction.

• 13:16Speaker 00

  Okay, so this is really funny because initially in my question, I was actually going to add a sarcastic, you know, so should I just get a dog?

• 13:24Dr. John Delony?

  A, yes, absolutely, okay? You can go get a rescue dog, you can get one of those designer, rich people dogs that, that God never intended to exist, but that we just made them some sort of poodle plus, whatever. Um, yes, absolutely, because that will give you two things, three things. Number one, um, it does give you touch. It's not human touch, but it is touch, and the research says they are an amazing substitute. I wish that wasn't the case, it just is, okay? And by the way, uh, I give my buddies a hard time when they call themselves pet parents and nonsense like that. I have three dogs that I love a lot, okay? And I don't talk about them very much, but I do.

• 14:08Dr. John Delony?

  I got one little turd squirrel looking dog that's about the size of, of a fart, and it's awesome. And I've got two other dogs that are big and goofy, and one of them's off Craigslist for 50 bucks. Like, they're, they're, they're great, okay? But they'll give you touch, but the other thing they'll give you is, A, a much-needed sense of responsibility. And the, the catch 22 with relationships is you can't find out how deep they, how deep and powerful they are until you own part of your, your, your end of it. And a pet, a pet can be a good foray into, this thing's gotta eat, this thing depends on me.

• 14:49Dr. John Delony?

  And it's annoying, and it's frustrating, and your dog will poop in the house, and if you get a puppy, it'll pee everywhere for a while till you, part of that frustration and training and all that, that's a part of the deal.

• 15:01Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 15:02Dr. John Delony?

  Okay? And here's the third thing. You're going to learn over time that you are lovable.

• 15:13Dr. John Delony?

  And you don't like yourself, you don't think people of your same faith tradition like you, your parents proved to you you weren't lovable. Whoever abused you stole from you your lovability. And a goofy old dog that cannot wait till you walk in the door. Will be a baby step in that direction, okay?

• 15:36Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 15:36Dr. John Delony?

  So I would tell you before the week's over, get off Google and just go walk your local shelter. I don't, I don't think Craigslist exists anymore, so I don't even know, but um, find, um, find a dog and get some support. Now here's the next thing. I'll, I would absolutely recommend if it's financially feasible at all, that you sign up for some behavioral classes with that dog. And here's what that will do. It'll put you in a room with other people trying to figure out their goofy dogs too.

• 16:10Dr. John Delony?

  And they'll look at you, y'all will laugh together, y'all will be frustrated together, they'll cheer you on in a way. And I know this because my Craigslist dog is dumber than a box of hammers. And it's just part of the deal.

• 16:25Dr. John Delony?

  Go to dog parks and what you'll do is you'll begin to have a reason or for lack of a better term, an excuse to go be around other people.

• 16:33Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 16:33Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. Here's the third thing. I want you to stop keeping secrets from your counselor.

• 16:44Dr. John Delony?

  And talk about your fear of touch. Because there's some, there's some things that will be terrifying for you, like joining a ballroom dancing class.

• 16:55Dr. John Delony?

  Where you just sign up to have a partner and y'all dance and then you switch partners and then you switch partners or square dancing class, something silly. But it puts you in context and relationship with other people where touch is a cornerstone of it. And here, it's gonna sound crazy. But it will allow you to begin to practice being touched. Without fear that people are gonna look at you and, and, and see something that they don't like about you.

• 17:22Speaker 00

  Yeah, it makes sense.

• 17:23Dr. John Delony?

  Your body has to learn that it wasn't safe then, but it is safe now.

• 17:30Dr. John Delony?

  That touch meant pain, touch meant theft, touch meant abuse then. It means love and care now. And you're worth being hugged, my brother, and you're worth sitting down at a table for dinner with other people. And quite honestly, I'd love to have a guy like you around to take my son out, like just to have a 15-year-old with another man in his life that y'all can go get pancakes and he can learn lessons from another guy. Like, you're worth being involved in people's lives. And I know that sounds terrifying and scary. And a goofy dog may go a long way.

• 18:14Dr. John Delony?

  You just gotta promise you're not gonna become one of those dog people that never wants to interact with a human because a dog will love you in ways that humans just simply can't. There's that old saying, "Want to know who loves you more, your wife or your dog? Put them both in the trunk for a few hours and see which one's happy to see you when you open the trunk," right? That will be true. That will be true. And it can be a gateway drug to human connection. And you're worth every bit of it. I'm grateful for your call, my brother. You call me any, any time. Blessings, good man. We come back, a woman asks how to tell her daughter she can't help with the wedding because she can't stand fiance.

• 18:58Dr. John Delony?

  This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Most of us are guilty of oversharing with the wrong person at one time or another, or maybe you're like me and you're just a bit of an overshare all the time. Let's be honest, our entire culture is based on oversharing and everyone is giving everyone else advice on what they should be eating and what their mental and emotional health should look like. Some of this advice may be good, but a ton of this advice is nonsense. And as fun as it can be to talk about everyday stuff with everyone all of the time, when you need help with your relationships, with anxiety, depression, or other clinical issues, regular people, especially people just all over the internets may not have the right answers.

• 19:42Dr. John Delony?

  You need real guidance from a licensed therapist who follows a strict code of conduct. And that's why I recommend reaching out to my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is the largest online therapy provider in the world. And that means no matter what you're facing, chances are BetterHelp has someone who specializes in exactly that challenge. And BetterHelp is totally online, which means it's easy to fit therapy into your busy schedule. To get started, you just answer a few simple questions, nothing weird or scary, and they will connect you with a licensed therapist who fits your needs. And if it's not the right fit, you can switch therapists at any time for no extra cost. BetterHelp has been matching people with therapists for over 10 years, and their 4.9 rating shows that they usually get it right.

• 20:26Dr. John Delony?

  Find the right one with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com/deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H E L P, dot com slash deloney. All right. Hey, take two seconds, please, please, please, please. We just crossed 800 million views on YouTube. 800 million. And only a fraction of you all have hit the subscribe button. Please hit the subscribe button. Take two seconds on YouTube, or if you're listening to us on Spotify, on Apple Podcasts, wherever you're getting this, on Google Play, take a second and hit the subscribe button. It makes a difference in so many ways. Thank you so, so much for being in our gang. So we went to Tampa, Florida and talked to Lynn. What's up, Lynn?

• 21:11Speaker 02

  Hey, John, thanks for taking my call.

• 21:13Dr. John Delony?

  Of course. Thanks for calling.

• 21:14Speaker 02

  Awesome. Yeah, thank you so much. Well, I'll get right into it here. So my question was, how do I tell my daughter that I don't want to participate in her wedding events because I just don't like the guy that she's marrying? Um, a little bit of backstory.

• 21:29Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah. Hey, hold on. Is it? Is that the first time you said that out loud?

• 21:34Speaker 02

  Um, yes.

• 21:35Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. I'll sit with that for a second. How does that feel?

• 21:40Speaker 02

  Uh, it feels good to, to say it out loud. I've, I voiced my opinion before, but you know, it's, the wedding is going to continue, but it's the first time me phrasing it and the way that was just very to the point with how I feel.

• 21:55Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, so, does it empower you, or does it make you go, "I don't know if my answer's right, if my decision's right?"

• 22:01Speaker 02

  It ma- it, it makes me feel like a jerk.

• 22:04Dr. John Delony?

  Oh, man. Okay, I can't wait to hear the story. Tell me more.

• 22:09Speaker 02

  Okay, so a little bit of backstory. She's getting married this fall and, you know, I don't like the guy she's marrying. I don't support the marriage, but I know I don't get a vote and I have come to peace with that. Um, but I'm really struggling with, you know, wanting to participate in any of the events leading up to the wedding. And I don't want to be the missing mother of the bride, but I just, I don't support it and it gives me just a sick feeling in my stomach to even think about attending the events. Um, you know, I don't like the guy because I, he's a jerk, you know, and I can, I can definitely elaborate on that.

• 22:45Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, tell me more.

• 22:46Speaker 02

  He's a jerk. So, he's, his biggest flaw, in my opinion, is he's just very emotionally immature. Um, can't get him to take accountability for anything. And not the fun emotionally immature, like cracking bad jokes at a funeral. Um, but he's, he's a screamer. He yells and screams when he doesn't get his way. Um, you know, does the guilt tripping, financially abusive, um, I just, just a whole laundry list of reasons that he wouldn't make a, a good husband right now. And, you know, looks like it's going forward and there's, you know, just not anything I can do about it.

• 23:25Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah. How, how old are, is this guy and your daughter?

• 23:30Speaker 02

  So, they're mid twenties, so definitely, you know, had grown enough to make their own decisions for sure.

• 23:35Dr. John Delony?

  Sure. So, tell me what you will, um, accomplish by stepping away from all of this? From the wedding, from the procedures, I mean, from the, the pomp and circumstance from your daughter and from this marriage?

• 23:53Speaker 02

  You know, and I don't know that I would accomplish anything besides I'm really bad at hiding the fact that I'm uncomfortable or unhappy. And I don't want to steal the spotlight from her at all. This is her wedding day. So I've decided to go to the wedding. But just the events leading up to the wedding, I don't know if I can drag myself to be there.

• 24:16Dr. John Delony?

  Events like what?

• 24:18Speaker 02

  You know, so things like the bridal shower, she's wanting help planning, you know, certain aspects of the wedding. You know, things like the parents' dinner type of thing. You know, all of those, just the events like leading up to the wedding.

• 24:38Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, so let's take the wedding and let's move it off to the side for a second. Okay?

• 24:44Dr. John Delony?

  And this is, this is a, close your eyes for a second, and imagine you're sitting across from a table with me.

• 24:52Dr. John Delony?

  And I'm making uncomfortably direct eye contact, okay?

• 24:57Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 24:57Dr. John Delony?

  Like we're just sitting in a diner somewhere, okay?

• 25:01Dr. John Delony?

  Tell me with raw, transparent honesty,

• 25:06Dr. John Delony?

  when is another time in her life when she was making decisions that you didn't like, and you backed up and walked away?

• 25:14Speaker 02

  Oh, goodness, when she moved out to go live with her dad after our divorce.

• 25:20Dr. John Delony?

  Tell me about that.

• 25:22Speaker 02

  So I was married for 18 years, and my ex-husband was an addict, and, you know, ultimately chose being an addict over, over his family. And, you know, when we divorced, the children were old enough to make the decision of where they wanted to go. And she chose to live with him. And I just really took a big step back. And it was, it was hard.

• 25:47Speaker 02

  I was crushed. She, she didn't really want a whole lot to do with me or the sister that had stayed home, you know, unreturned phone calls, unreturned text messages, you know, that type of thing.

• 25:59Dr. John Delony?

  How old was your daughter?

• 26:01Speaker 02

  Sixteen.

• 26:01Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 26:07Dr. John Delony?

  When you think back to when you were a little girl,

• 26:12Dr. John Delony?

  did mom and dad ever bail on you?

• 26:14Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, I, yeah, I had nobody. I had my aunt and uncle and, you know, God bless them. They raised me and they are amazing people, but my parents, MIA.

• 26:26Dr. John Delony?

  MIA, like they left you and you had to go live with somebody else? Or you, they were, they left you, but you were still in their house?

• 26:33Speaker 02

  No, they left me and I went to live with somebody else. I, uh, my aunt and uncle raised me.

• 26:40Dr. John Delony?

  So imagine yourself that 16-year-old little girl

• 26:46Dr. John Delony?

  watching your dad. So, let me just ask it this way, or let me just say it this way, because it, it'll cut to the chase a little bit. If you and I were sitting down and we were spending a couple hours together, I would do this a little bit differently, but our time is compressed here. I would be willing to bet money that there's still a 14 or 15 or 16-year-old little girl inside your chest that is wondering, what was so bad about me that mom and dad left?

• 27:13Dr. John Delony?

  What did I do?

• 27:16Dr. John Delony?

  What was so freaking bad about me? Was I not pretty enough? Was I not nice enough? Did I not get good enough grades? And as you get older, even your language around your husband, you know intellectually that they made choices. And thank God your aunt and uncle showed up.

• 27:35Dr. John Delony?

  But that 16-year-old that sits and lives inside your chest would do anything for a conversation with your dad to lean across the table and say, I screwed up, honey, and I'm so sorry. You were always beautiful. You're always smart.

• 27:48Dr. John Delony?

  And so to think about this 16-year-old girl who's your daughter,

• 27:54Dr. John Delony?

  dying for an answer to the question, Dad, what is so bad about me?

• 28:01Dr. John Delony?

  That you choose drugs, you choose drinking, you choose to leave.

• 28:08Dr. John Delony?

  And we all know, it's become like a psychological trope. It's like a, it's a joke, but it's kind of serious. The daughters are the ones that are gonna take care of their dads in old age.

• 28:20Dr. John Delony?

  Or if you haven't heard, all the guys are like, hey, you gotta have a daughter, man. Cause your sons are gonna grow up and be goofballs and you're gonna have to have someone to take care of when you get old.

• 28:29Dr. John Delony?

  And if a 16-year-old is unfairly by the courts, given the opportunity to say, hey, who do you want to go live with?

• 28:39Dr. John Delony?

  It doesn't surprise me at all that a 16-year-old girl said, I need to get to the end of this thing. I'm gonna keep him alive.

• 28:46Dr. John Delony?

  And by the way, as a culture, we don't let that 16-year-old girl drink. We don't let her, we barely let her drive. We don't let her buy guns or, we don't let her do anything because she's a kid.

• 29:00Dr. John Delony?

  And the reason I'm telling you this in this order is, or in this way is

• 29:08Dr. John Delony?

  walking away from a child almost never accomplishes what we want it to accomplish. What it does is it keeps us as adults safe from our own hurts and our own pain and our own powerlessness to, to manage what happens next.

• 29:28Dr. John Delony?

  And so, all I'm putting out, I want you to hear me say, you're a grown up and you have way more context than I do. We've just been talking for a few minutes.

• 29:38Dr. John Delony?

  But one of the things I've come to learn is walking away from a relationship

• 29:45Dr. John Delony?

  is never the long-term, not never, is often not the solution to keep the person that we love, that we're trying to protect, safe.

• 29:55Dr. John Delony?

  And so I'm wondering what an alternative vision would be, you taking your daughter out and saying, hey, I've said my piece on him. I can't love a guy that screams and yells at my daughter. But I love you.

• 30:08Dr. John Delony?

  And I'll be here now, I'll be here when things get scary. And if this marriage ever gets sideways, I will be your first call.

• 30:17Dr. John Delony?

  And so really, I'm gonna get closer to you instead of further away. And I get if people feel like, hey, I don't wanna, I can't be a part of the celebration here because I feel like a fraud. I get that.

• 30:30Dr. John Delony?

  And part of me says, man, you totally get that as the parent and the adult. You get to make your adult decisions. And the other side of that, there's another voice in my head that says, dude, be the adult. Like, take your feelings and just put them aside because your daughter's scared and she knows that she's entering into a scary situation too.

• 30:50Dr. John Delony?

  That's, that's why I want to know what you want to accomplish other than to protect yourself from participating in something you know down, down the road isn't safe. And I'm wondering if your daughter's gonna, those scary nights when he's screaming and banging into the sheetrock and not letting her have any money or whatever.

• 31:09Dr. John Delony?

  If you remember those moments when you didn't know who to call, when your husband didn't come home again and didn't come home again and didn't come home again. And if she knows, I can call my mom, I can always go home. If that isn't the greatest offer of love you can give her.

• 31:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, I completely, I completely get that and I'm, you're a hundred percent right. And I think the thing that resonates with me is that I'm gonna feel like a total fraud being there, but um.

• 31:40Dr. John Delony?

  Tell me about, tell me about the fraud, tell me about the fraud, because I think there's another way to look at it. But tell me about feeling like a fraud while you're there. What do you mean by that?

• 31:47Speaker 02

  I, I'm, I'm gonna have to go in there with a smile on my face, like I'm happy to be there and I'm gonna have to, you know, make nice conversation with, you know, many of his family members that are also pretty awful.

• 32:02Speaker 02

  And it's, it's gonna be uncomfortable and I'm gonna just want to be leaving as soon as everything is over and I don't know. I'm just looking for a, a place and some ideas to, to be able to suck it up.

• 32:15Dr. John Delony?

  Well, it, it, okay, so there, there's the, there's the suck it up. And few people on the planet hate small talk like me. Dude, I'm terrible at it. I'm awkward. I make people uncomfortable during small talk. I get to mumbling and people like, what are you talking, I, I, I get it. I, I can't stand it, especially when I don't like people. It's, I'm the worst, the worst at it, okay?

• 32:37Dr. John Delony?

  But there's another side to it. What if you imagined?

• 32:41Dr. John Delony?

  Your daughter, when she was six, you know, going for a walk in the neighborhood? And there's a house on the corner that has a big scary golden retriever-y kinda dog. And you're gonna get real close to that daughter. And you're gonna talk to her, and you're gonna make eye contact with her, and you're gonna smile, and you're gonna hold her hand when you can, and you're gonna put your hand on the small of her back when you can. And I'm gonna be there, real close to you. And one of those is, I'm gonna, I'm gonna hate every second of this, cuz I gotta go through all the performative, people are stomping on their Marlboro Reds and their suits in the middle of the church, right? And you're like, God, y'all just gross people.

• 33:26Dr. John Delony?

  And then the other side of it is, um, I'm gonna be right here by my daughter. There will never be a doubt in her mind that if she wants to turn and run, I'm right here. And one of those is a protective, love, deep, deep love. Um, come what come, like, I will be right here. And the other one is, like, woe is me, I don't wanna smile with a bunch of weirdos, pulling up in their Dodge Chargers and their Square Kias, or I don't know what they're driving, I'm just making up stories to try to be on your team, right? I don't know. But, but, you get what I'm saying? One of those is a mission-centric, I don't care who's gonna be there, I'm gonna be standing

• 34:08Dr. John Delony?

  right by my baby girl, even though she's 27, making a terrible choice. And the other is, I'm just gonna be thinking about how awkward this is gonna be for me, for me, yet again, leaving my daughter off by herself to fend for herself, why I am concerned about how I feel in this moment. Which is what feels like what happened when she was 16, and she made a 16-year-old child decision, and you held her hostage for making a child decision. For your feelings about her choice, you get what I'm saying? You took that really personally.

• 34:48Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 34:50Dr. John Delony?

  Instead of saying, what an awful, awful moment for a little girl, who's now 16, who's not legally allowed to do anything, she can't even legally consummate, she can't have sex, she can't buy cigarettes, she can't do anything, yet she feels a sense of responsibility to go care for her dying father.

• 35:11Dr. John Delony?

  What an awful position to be in. And I, God almighty, I wish he'd chosen me.

• 35:23Dr. John Delony?

  And can I just tell you, I hate that your parents left you. That sucks. I hate they walked out on you. And I hate that your husband followed some similar trajectory. After 20 years of nightmares, is he coming home? Who's he with? Is he alive? Like, all that.

• 35:42Dr. John Delony?

  But I also want you to hold the responsibility to not repeat that same pattern, which is, "I'm gonna walk away too."

• 35:56Dr. John Delony?

  And sometimes-

• 35:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, 100%, thank you.

• 35:59Dr. John Delony?

  No, you got it. And, hey, listen, I know what I'm asking of you is insanely hard. And I guess, what I would challenge all of us is to, when we see a relationship with somebody that we care about and we love and we want to be well,

• 36:13Dr. John Delony?

  what if we waited through so that they knew when they're ready to be safe, they're ready to change their life, they're ready to act in ways that are more healthy and secure, we will be right here.

• 36:27Dr. John Delony?

  It's just a thought. Lynn, thank you so much for being brave. You're awesome.

• 36:31Dr. John Delony?

  However I can help, I'll be here. And if your daughter wants to call in, I'm happy to talk to her too. We come back, a woman asks how to find friends in this crazy, lonely world.

• 36:43Dr. John Delony?

  If you're looking around at the culture and you're having a hard time knowing who to look up to, I get it. There's so much noise coming from so many different directions, and it can be hard to know who to trust, who to look up to. But, there are examples of people who can teach us, and these are people who have been inspiring us with their wisdom and faith for centuries. And that's why I'm excited to tell you that one of Hallow's biggest prayer challenges is back this month. It's called "Saints in Seven Days." The saints we honor aren't just stained glass paintings on church windows, and they're not Instagram influencers. They were- Real, living people devoted to God no matter the cost. And during this challenge, you're going to learn how we can apply their faithfulness and their lives

• 37:28Dr. John Delony?

  to our lives today. Saints in Seven Days also features Gwen Stefani teaching about Queen Esther, Michael Iskander from Amazon's hit series, House of David, talking about King David and many, many more. The Saints aren't just stories from the past. They're real life examples for living with purpose, humility, and it gives us a picture of what genuine faith actually looks like. Join the Saints in Seven Days Challenge on Hallow today. And if you do so right now, you get three months of Hallow for free. Go to hallow.com/daloni right now for three months of Hallow for free. That's Hallow, H-A-L-L-O-W.com/daloni.

• 38:08Dr. John Delony?

  All right, let's go out to Indianapolis, Indiana and talk to Mary Shelley. What's up, Shelley?

• 38:15Speaker 03

  Hello, hi, Dr. John.

• 38:17Dr. John Delony?

  What up?

• 38:19Speaker 03

  How are you doing today?

• 38:20Dr. John Delony?

  Awesome. How are you?

• 38:22Speaker 03

  I'm doing great.

• 38:23Dr. John Delony?

  Perfect. What's up?

• 38:25Speaker 03

  Um, yeah, I was just calling in to ask how you make friends in your twenties.

• 38:32Dr. John Delony?

  I don't, I don't know. You tell me.

• 38:35Speaker 03

  I've had friends in childhood, growing up, I mean, in sports and high school and then now, now what?

• 38:44Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, it's a nightmare, huh? How old are you?

• 38:47Speaker 03

  Uh, I'm 23 and I work night shift, so that makes it 10 times harder.

• 38:53Dr. John Delony?

  Oh my goodness. What do you do?

• 38:56Speaker 03

  Um, I work for a nursing home, really. It's an assisted living home, so I really can't make friends there either.

• 39:06Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, you can make the best friends. They, they've got more wisdom and experience, but man, but no, I get it. By the way.

• 39:12Speaker 03

  Friends that want to jump off cliffs with me, you know?

• 39:17Dr. John Delony?

  Man, um, I almost made a few jokes there, but I'm not gonna make those jokes. Cause the internets don't have the same sense of humor I have sometimes. Um, well, kudos to you for being in that service position. And for anybody in their twenties who are wondering, what is an AI-proof job? It's gonna be increasingly more necessary in the coming decades. Working where you are working in assisted living facilities and in aging care units is gonna be the wave of the future. So, good for you.

• 39:43Speaker 03

  Absolutely.

• 39:44Dr. John Delony?

  Um, so here, here's the reality. And I, I could, we could just go all day long. You're not gonna like my answer and I hate giving this answer, but I'll give you some context. Since you were a little, little girl, everything was, when it came to relationships, was curated. Like in kindergarten, everybody sit on the, the Cardinals sit on the red line and the bluebirds sit on the blue line. And you sat on the line and you sat around people, right? And then you went to elementary school and you played kickball and you were either into kickball and that was your gang, or you hated kickball and you had your MyKitty backpack and you ironically struck out in kickball. And then those people found each other.

• 40:28Dr. John Delony?

  And then you got to middle school and you did ta ta, ti ti ta, or soccer, or whatever. And like, so everything, even through college, through sororities, or people who think sororities are dumb, or majors, you just get clustered. And then you walk across that stage and it's like, alright, it's you versus the world now, go get them.

• 40:46Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 40:48Dr. John Delony?

  And even your job application, you're, you're competing with forty-year-olds, seventy-year-olds, fifty, like, it just, it's just becomes this you versus the planet.

• 40:57Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 40:57Dr. John Delony?

  And so, um, we've created the loneliest generation in human history. Do you still have long, um, text threads that are mostly memes from high school and or early college friends?

• 41:10Speaker 03

  No, I have this good friend that we became friends after high school. We were kind of in the same group, but not really close. But we became really close after high school. But she just told me she's moving away to Ohio with her boyfriend. So my only friend that I have is now moving away.

• 41:31Speaker 03

  So.

• 41:36Speaker 03

  I'm just that alone, you know?

• 41:39Dr. John Delony?

  If I could, if I could capture that noise you just made when you went so, right?

• 41:47Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 41:49Dr. John Delony?

  Let me suggest something, a new way of looking at it.

• 41:52Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 41:53Dr. John Delony?

  Friends are a thing you are worth.

• 41:59Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 41:59Dr. John Delony?

  Not people who bring you stuff.

• 42:04Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 42:06Dr. John Delony?

  And why do I mean, why do I say it like that? When you're, by the way, most of the calls and conversations I have are with 30 and 40 year olds, but it's increasingly getting earlier and earlier, okay? So, good on you for addressing this early on.

• 42:23Dr. John Delony?

  There's a sense that I have a puzzle and there's a missing piece, and I need other people to come fill this piece for me in the form of friendship and/or romantic attachment. What I want to suggest is if you begin to take apart this puzzle that you're creating for yourself and leave the pieces out, and you go find people that you can create new pictures with.

• 42:48Dr. John Delony?

  It keeps it from being this end of ti- like, I need to find a person to fit into my puzzle, because what ends up happening is you use other people for you to feel better.

• 42:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 42:59Dr. John Delony?

  Versus, I have an empty, wide-open canvas and I want to paint some cool stuff. Are you in? Are you in? Are you in?

• 43:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, because I mainly, I hate to say it, but I mainly just look at who can I do stuff with now? Instead of losing that friendship, I'm missing that body, you know?

• 43:25Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah. And in a weird way, people become a Xanax for you to not have to feel the existential angst of being, of your quarter-life crisis, about to be 25 going, "What am I doing with my life?" Other people, like, y'all go out and just numb out together, which is a thousand times better than numbing out by scrolling, right?

• 43:46Speaker 03

  Right.

• 43:47Dr. John Delony?

  But...

• 43:49Dr. John Delony?

  You can very easily find yourself thirty-eight, like, behind a bowling alley-

• 43:54Speaker 03

  The same numbness.

• 43:54Dr. John Delony?

  With cigarettes. Yeah, I just, like, that's, I just described Kelly. But, like, just sitting behind a bowling alley, just smoking, right? Um, do what, did you say, Kelly?

• 44:03Speaker 03

  Said, "I wish I was only thirty-eight."

• 44:05Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, I mean, she's way, way older than thirty-eight now. Um, so, let me ask you this. What are some things you like to do?

• 44:13Speaker 03

  Hmm, I like, really, I'm a hobbyist. I bake bread, I like to skate, I, um, got into planting, I, I like to do anything and everything. I just, I guess I have a hard time doing things by myself.

• 44:29Dr. John Delony?

  That's not a bad thing, that's kinda awesome. But do you have a hard time inviting people into those worlds?

• 44:36Speaker 03

  No. Um, I got skates because my friend got skates, I got plants because my mom had plants. I mean, I like to be involved, I like to watch shows that people are watching so we could talk about it. I'm in, very inviting, but I feel like I get too much for the people that I do have in my life, like my mom or my sisters. I feel like I get too much for them sometimes.

• 45:00Dr. John Delony?

  Tell me about that.

• 45:01Speaker 03

  So they don't... My family's very chaotic. Um, I live here in Indiana, they live in Illinois. It's just me and my mom here, and she goes to Illinois for everything. Um, my one sister has four kids, she just had her fourth kid, and she goes there for everything, for her sister's stuff, my grandma's stuff, my sister's stuff, my gr- her grandkids, I mean, just everything. So, it's really hard, like, I, me and my mom live on the same property. I have a house and she has a house. And I can do anything with my mom, she likes to go floating with me, we like to go swimming.

• 45:42Speaker 03

  But when she is gone, it's hard for me to say, "Okay, it's their time." Instead, it's always my time, you know?

• 45:53Dr. John Delony?

  Why don't you think you're worth being friends with?

• 45:57Speaker 03

  I'm not sure I've

• 46:01Speaker 03

  really struggled with that. I mean, I moved schools when I was about 13. I went from a probably 100 people class to about 1,000 people class. Um, when I was 13 and it was, it was very hard.

• 46:20Dr. John Delony?

  Did you get swallowed up and just lost?

• 46:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, I really made friends with one girl. I mean, I had friends on the track team and the swim team and whatever. But I really only had one true friend and now she's moving away. I knew she's never wanted to stay in Indiana, so she's also moved away. But I haven't talked to her since high school about four or five years ago.

• 46:45Dr. John Delony?

  I know, but you did, you did a great job avoiding my question. Why don't you think you're worth being friends with?

• 46:52Speaker 03

  I'm not sure.

• 46:56Dr. John Delony?

  Cause even when your mom goes to see her grandkids, that, that feels in your guts like abandonment.

• 47:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 47:06Dr. John Delony?

  Or another way to say that you, the first question your body asks itself is, well, what's so bad about me?

• 47:15Dr. John Delony?

  And listening to you talk about your one friend that you put every friend egg in their basket. It's, it's, it's, it's a, I knew it. You don't want to be around me either. Or you'd rather be around that dumb, stupid boy that you want to make a life with.

• 47:35Dr. John Delony?

  But that comes down to a sense of self-worth.

• 47:41Dr. John Delony?

  And, and I'll even, I'll even suggest this, I'm throwing spaghetti at the wall, so it may not stick. So tell me if I'm wrong, but you do whatever anyone else wants to do.

• 47:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, a hundred percent.

• 47:54Dr. John Delony?

  Which begs the question, why don't you think you're worth people coming to do things that you want to do? Or have you even ever asked yourself the question, what do I actually want? What if I don't want to live in Indianapolis? What if I kind of feel like a dork skating? What if I like baking bread and all, but I'd actually like taking guitar lessons and joining a punk band? Like, what about asking, what do you want to do with your one wild and precious life?

• 48:28Speaker 03

  They really struck a nerve with me there.

• 48:30Dr. John Delony?

  I know, I could feel it on you. Let me just say it this way. To make friends in the 21st century, you have to do a few things. One, put your phones away. Two, go first. Three, go be weird. What do I mean by that?

• 48:43Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 48:44Dr. John Delony?

  I play music with a group of guys here at the office.

• 48:49Dr. John Delony?

  And I don't have time to do it. I got kids' stuff. And my wife says she gets a better husband when I'm playing music with my buddies. So I go do it.

• 48:59Dr. John Delony?

  My family goes to bed early. And so I hang out at a comedy club around the corner from my house.

• 49:06Dr. John Delony?

  Sometimes I go onstage for 10 minutes and tell diarrhea jokes. And it's fun for me. I don't know how fun it is for the audience. But I'm making new, great friends backstage.

• 49:16Dr. John Delony?

  And I cheer, you see what I'm saying? But I'm putting myself in awkward situations. By the way, I'm not perfect at this. I suck at this. That's why I'm making myself do it. But it's never convenient. And it's never easy. And there are nights I, me, Deloney, I come home from a comedy club being like, "Why did you say that? That was so weird." "Why are you awkward?" I still do that to myself. To this day, I still do that. And I have almost 2 million followers on Instagram. None of that matters in the real world. Okay?

• 49:44Dr. John Delony?

  So it's about putting yourself in awkward situations. If you like to make bread, find two or three people that you kind of know-ish. Maybe at work-ish, or maybe one of your boyfriend's friends, girlfriends-ish. And say, "I'm making some bread. Bring a couple of things over and come over. I want you to help me do this." And it might be an awkward bread-making experience the first time, or the second time. But it might just be hilarious. And it might be fun.

• 50:14Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 50:16Dr. John Delony?

  And then, but I think your real homework assignment is asking yourself, "What do I actually want to do?"

• 50:23Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, I'm in therapy and our topic last week was hobbies.

• 50:29Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, can I tell you, there's not really a good way to find out, to think about a hobby? You just gotta start trying stuff.

• 50:37Speaker 03

  Well, I'm trying to find something that I can do like while I'm watching TV or something because I picked up gardening, but you could only do so much with gardening.

• 50:46Dr. John Delony?

  Turn the freaking TV off.

• 50:49Speaker 03

  Um.

• 50:50Dr. John Delony?

  That's your hobby.

• 50:51Speaker 03

  Yes, that's my point.

• 50:54Dr. John Delony?

  Here's the thing, you're gonna have to find things that make you uncomfortable. And I'm telling you, when me and the, and the gang are playing music, the last thing I care about is a TV. We're just having fun. Even when we're like, dude, you missed it, you totally blew it, like, oh man, let's go to this chord here. When I'm sitting at a comedy club, watching some guys that I know a little bit well or real well, or Nate Bargatze just burst in the door and he's like, I'm gonna do 15 minutes. And you're like, what? This is like, nobody cares about TV. I don't care about sports scores because you're so locked in a thing, right? Or when I'm out hunting, I could care less about TV. I'm locked in a thing. It's finding, finding things, trying things out piece by piece by piece.

• 51:38Dr. John Delony?

  And by the way, hobbies are something you kind of make yourself do at the beginning until you get good at it. And the only thing, way you get good at something is by practicing it, doing over and over. And then over time, you get a little bit better and a little bit better and a little bit better and you think, dude, I freaking love this. And by the way, you run into people that you end up liking.

• 51:55Dr. John Delony?

  And you have to start from a place where you believe I'm worth being friends with. And the sum total of my life isn't becoming a chameleon to all these other people because that's the only way I feel like I'm worthy of being loved.

• 52:13Dr. John Delony?

  You're worth being a girlfriend to a guy who also does what you want to do sometime or who celebrates you going to do your fun things. My wife is a writer. My wife likes gardening. It's not really my jam.

• 52:27Dr. John Delony?

  But we both celebrate each other's weird stuff that we like. And your mom and your other friends.

• 52:35Dr. John Delony?

  You're worth all of that. But it starts with you looking in the mirror saying, "Hey, Shelley, I like you." And we're gonna start an adventure trying to find things that we actually love. Especially living on the other side of the screen, as Carlos Whitaker says. "Thank you so much for the call, my sister. You're awesome." "Go first, be weird, and know that you're worth being friends with." We'll be right back.

• 53:06Dr. John Delony?

  I talk a lot on my show about boundaries, emotional boundaries, relational, financial. But there's one boundary that almost nobody talks about: your digital life. Right now, your personal information, your phone number, your address, even where your kids go to school, it's sitting on countless websites that you've never heard of. And you didn't give them permission to have that data, but it's out there. Let's be honest, it's not just annoying, it's a violation. This constant exposure of our personal data, this exposure that we don't even know where it's coming from, it creates this anxiety that just hums in the background of your life. Something always feels a little bit off, and that's why I use Delete Me.

• 53:46Dr. John Delony?

  Delete Me goes after the data brokers and the people finder sites that collect and resell your information without your permission. They track down your information and they remove it. And every few months, they send you a report showing you exactly what they've done. This is taking control of your digital boundaries. It's about peace. Go to joindelete.me/deloney and use code DELONY to get 20% off. That's joindelete.me/deloney to save 20% off. Go right now and create some digital boundaries.

• 54:22Dr. John Delony?

  All right, we are back with a Money and Marriage question. Hey, the November Money and Marriage event here in Nashville is almost, it may be sold out. If it's not, it's just got a few tickets left. If you want to come to Nashville, you and your spouse, come to Nashville for a long weekend. It's the best marriage retreat on the planet. And then we have one Valentine's Day weekend in February. There's still some tickets left for that one. Come and see us. By the way, if you're wondering, what do I get for Christmas and Valentine's Day? Get a couple of tickets.

• 54:54Dr. John Delony?

  For Money, Marriage, Valentine's Day weekend, you can give the tickets for Christmas and then you've got something to do Valentine's Day weekend. Come see us in Nashville, me and my friend Rachel Cruz and a bunch of special guests. It's brand new stuff this year, it's gonna be amazing. Alright, so we have an anonymous question box during Money and Marriage event, and here is one of the questions that was left at last year's event. "We've been married for 25 years and we love each other a lot, but we bicker a lot. We don't want to be the bickersons." That's a clever way to say that. "How do we stop?" Kelly, what do you think? You and I bicker.

• 55:31Speaker 04

  Yes, we do.

• 55:34Dr. John Delony?

  Mostly because I'm right and you're wrong a lot.

• 55:37Speaker 04

  No.

• 55:38Dr. John Delony?

  Thus the bickering begins.

• 55:43Speaker 04

  Yes, mostly because one of us is delusional and one of us is more grounded in reality. But, you know, tomato, tomato.

• 55:49Dr. John Delony?

  One of us has got a young, sharp, whippersnapper mind and the other one is

• 55:53Speaker 04

  You?

• 55:54Dr. John Delony?

  Aging rapidly.

• 55:55Speaker 04

  The other one is you?

• 55:56Dr. John Delony?

  Rapidly. Here's the thing when it comes to bickering. This could feel defeatist, this could feel awful, but this is the truth. The Gottman's research suggests that 90-plus percent of most marriage fights will never be quote-unquote "solved." They'll never be solved. They just are. She's just gonna have nose hairs and he's not gonna shave enough. And he'll leave out towels and she's gonna clip her toenails during the middle of a sh- it's just gonna be. So, there's a couple of ways to address bickering. Number one, it becomes a language. It becomes the way you communicate with each other.

• 56:40Dr. John Delony?

  My wife says that she can tell what generation of friend I'm talking to by how much I swear. And I'm like, "What are you talking about? I hardly ever swear around the house or anything like that." And she's like, "I know, but you used to, real bad." And I pick up the phone and just go boom, right into an old language. So, think of bickering, especially with somebody you love and care about, you've been married to for a quarter century, it's just a language. And so what you're gonna do is commit to speaking and learning a new language. One of changing your default setting. Or, as the great Becky Kennedy says, like, "I'm gonna seek the most positive intent."

• 57:22Dr. John Delony?

  So I'm going to try only saying nice things. Now, you know, that's not possible all the time, but I'm just going to try to speak a new language. One that is, I'm always noticing positive things instead of pointing out negative things. Here's the second thing. Just don't respond, or as Jefferson Fisher says, let your first word be a breath.

• 57:48Dr. John Delony?

  Somebody walks in and goes, is that what we're having for dinner? Instead of going, why don't you make, is that what we're having for dinner?

• 57:59Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, that's what we're having. I just don't have to respond to that. And it's a practice and it takes time. Here's the third thing.

• 58:12Dr. John Delony?

  Just pick up the towels, just be a friend. Pick up the towels. If somebody's making dinner, you would never go to your buddy's house and they're making dinner for you and you go, is that what we're having again? You would just be like, hey, dude, thanks for dinner, even if it's not delicious. Just go and be grateful for the dinner. Or if your buddy is over at your house and they leave towels out, you just pick up the towels and you throw them in a hamper and you move on. And so there's something about bickering where we are hoping our spouse will be something more than any human could ever be for us. And we don't expect any other person in our life, our boss, our friends, our community members to be that person. So just pick up the towels. Just go do the thing instead of barking about the thing.

• 58:58Dr. John Delony?

  So those are my thoughts and opinions there. I'll say this, Kelly.

• 59:06Dr. John Delony?

  You know, like, and this is me being honest, I know we're always goofy, but like, sometimes it can be hard for me to walk from one part of this building to the other. I get stopped all along the way with a thing and then a thing and then a thing. And

• 59:20Dr. John Delony?

  that's can be really frustrating when there's a studio full of people in here waiting to record a show. And for a couple of years, I'm trying to do a thing and or I get to talking or then my manager says, hey, I got you got one second. And I'm yeah, and we start talking and then it turns into another thing. And you would come in really mad and be like, you suck.

• 59:39Dr. John Delony?

  And I don't know what switch flipped, but you come in now and you smile and you go, "Would you like to do a show, John?" And I'm like, "Oh, yeah." And but it felt like there was a switch. I don't know what it was, but it's not like it's any easier for me to walk down the hall. But I felt in your spirit, like, I don't think in John's soul, he's like, "I'm gonna be a complete and total ass today and just back up the whole day." I'm confident, A, he doesn't know what time it is, B, 50 people just stopped him, and C, he's kind of an idiot. And so I'm not gonna let him ruin my day. I'm gonna come smile and say, "You wanna do a show?" And what I have found is, I appreciate that so much. I'm on time, Wayne. I don't know why, how the alchemy works, but I'm more like,

• 1:00:24Dr. John Delony?

  "I don't have time to talk to you. I'm headed in this way." Does that feel right?

• 1:00:28Speaker 04

  It does. Okay, so the time I led you in here with gummy bears was...

• 1:00:31Dr. John Delony?

  That was pretty awesome.

• 1:00:32Speaker 04

  That was pretty awesome, except you threw them all at me.

• 1:00:35Dr. John Delony?

  That was funny. You made a trail.

• 1:00:36Speaker 04

  I did. I made a trail all the way from his chair to the desk, for gummy bears, but he followed.

• 1:00:42Dr. John Delony?

  It worked.

• 1:00:43Speaker 04

  It worked. But yeah, I mean, there comes a point when it's you, it's almost like you have to worry about your self-preservation of like, "I just can't get this mad about this every day," you know, because it doesn't work. I end up getting frustrated.

• 1:00:57Dr. John Delony?

  And then I get frustrated that you're frustrated.

• 1:00:59Speaker 04

  You're frustrated, yeah. And it's just like, this is just not working. So let's try, let's change tack and see how it goes.

• 1:01:04Dr. John Delony?

  Well, you broke the cycle, Kelly. Way to go. Appreciate that.

• 1:01:08Speaker 04

  But we still bicker.

• 1:01:09Dr. John Delony?

  Well, it's because you're wrong a lot.

• 1:01:11Speaker 04

  No.

• 1:01:13Dr. John Delony?

  And you're old. Beautiful. You're aging gracefully. But God, you're aging.

• 1:01:19Speaker 04

  Why don't we just end the show right now?

• 1:01:21Dr. John Delony?

  Love you guys. Stay in school, don't do drugs. Bickering is a language. I guess that's the new sticker. Bickering is a language. Pick a different language. Any one that is joyful, optimistic, kind. Unless your coworker is kind of a lot. Love you guys. Bye.