Pod Insights On Purpose with Jay Shetty Jane Goodall ON: Winning the War on Nature & How Simple Actions Make Big Changes About this episode Jane Goodall sits down with Jay Shetty to talk about her passion and love for nature and wildlife. She believes that all of us have the power to make a difference around us and impact our surroundings significantly. And as we continue to hope in the most trying times of our lives, when we take action, this hope turns into change, into a success, and into a celebration.
Jane is an ethologist known for her long-term research on the chimpanzees of Tanzania's Gombe Stream National Park. In 1995, the University of Cambridge awarded her a Ph. D. in ethology, one of the few candidates to receive a Ph. D. without having first possessed an A. B. degree. She established the Jane Goodall Institute to help support the Gombe research and the Roots & Shoots program for the youth to actively participate in environmental, conservation and humanitarian issues.
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What We Discuss:
00:00 Intro
02:19 Parental support molds us
04:59 “Because you did it, I can do it too.”
07:34 We live in a war against nature
10:22 Everyone of us makes an impact on the planet
12:58 A language of gesture that predated human spoken language
18:49 Living through a time when it totally seemed hopeless
22:53 The only way to give hope to others is to help them
24:48 Hope is about action
28:00 First, see that you can make a difference locally
32:04 You don’t have to change everything on your own
36:35 We communicate through our words
39:23 What’s your definition of success?
42:28 Unless we live for money to help make a difference
46:40 The Survivor Tree story
50:42 Messengers of hope need to be storytellers
54:00 Influential people inspire more people to make a difference
54:48 Jane on Final Five
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Episode Resources:
Jane Goodall | Website
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Jane Goodall | Books
Jane Goodall Institute | Facebook
Jane Goodall Institute | Instagram
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Transcript 10,519 words · 7 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
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1:42 Speaker 01 We don't deserve the title of Homo sapiens, the wise ape, because we've been destroying our only home, because there's been a disconnect, I think, between this clever brain and the human heart. I love the way we poetically put love and compassion into the human heart. And then finally, this indomitable human spirit that won't give in and so often succeeds. How can you not have hope?
2:17 Jay Shetty? Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the number one health podcast in the world, thanks to each and every single one of you that come back every week to listen, learn, and grow. Now, it's not every week that you get to sit down with one of your heroes and legends. I am not, I am not overestimating at all. This is someone that was on my original list of people I wanted to sit down with when I started this podcast. You know that I want to sit down with thinkers, activists, philanthropists, and people that are doing work in the world that inspires me and can inspire all of us to do more. I'm speaking about the one and only Jane Goodall. Jane, thank you so much for being with me here today. I am so grateful
3:00 Jay Shetty? to spend this time with you and I thank you for giving me this opportunity.
3:05 Speaker 01 Well, thank you for inviting me and I'm sure we're going to have a wonderful conversation.
3:10 Jay Shetty? Absolutely, Jane. Whereabouts in the world are you right now?
3:13 Speaker 01 I'm in England, south of England, Bournemouth, in the house where I grew up, where I have been grounded since the beginning of the pandemic.
3:24 Jay Shetty? Wow. I read that one of your favorite novel series was Tarzan. I wanted to know what about that story lights you up and why it's one of your favorites?
3:33 Speaker 01 Well, actually, you know, when I look at the
3:36 Jay Shetty? Favorites?
3:37 Speaker 01 Well, actually, you know, when I look at the original Tarzan of the Apes that inspired me, I was 10 years old and I wanted to go to Africa. I wanted to live with wild animals in the forest. I thought Tarzan married the wrong Jane. If I read the book now, I don't like it because there's an awful lot of killing and death and all that stuff. But that's what inspired me and that's what made my dream. I will go to Africa, live with wild animals, and write books about them. Because back then, girl, I mean, we're going back like 78 years or something. Girls weren't scientists. No girls went out in the forest. Everybody
4:22 Speaker 01 laughed at me. Jane, dream about something you can achieve. Not my amazing mother. She said, "If you really want to do something like this, well, you're going to have to work very hard, take advantage of every opportunity, and if you don't give up, maybe you'll find a way."
4:42 Jay Shetty? That's incredible advice from your mother. What do you think it was about her that she was able to have that vision and that encouragement for you, apart from her love for you? What is it that you think made her special in that way, especially at a time when women were being discouraged from anything of the sort?
4:59 Speaker 01 She had a wonderful mother, who was kind of way ahead of her time. And she had an extraordinary father, who was a congregational minister. My one sadness is I never met him. He died before I was born. But everything I've read about him, you know, he used to go out in the woods. He would take his children out and tell them about nature. And I know that I would have got on so well with him. So basically, my mother was special because she had special parents. And that's, that's important for us to know now. I attribute much of who I am and what I've done to the fact that my mother supported me when I was a child.
5:42 Jay Shetty? How did it affect you, Jane, when you had this dream and this vision, but people around you told you it wasn't possible? I mean, the words you shared of people that you spoke to sounded very discouraging, especially for a young person. And I feel today, a lot of young people hear different things, but it's the same message. You're not smart enough, you're not good enough, you're not the right person, it's not the right time. How did that make you feel and how did you process that at the time?
6:12 Speaker 01 Well, you see, because I had this supportive family, it wasn't only my mother, I lived with her. And when war began, I grew up in World War II. And when the war began, mum brought me and my sister to live with her mother here, in this house. And it was with my mother's two sisters.
6:33 Speaker 01 And her brother came as often as he could from London. He was a surgeon. He had to deal with the victims of the Blitz. You know, when London was bombed day after day after day. So I was just surrounded by this supportive family of extraordinary people. And I didn't care what the outside world said. But the reason I take this message around the world, what my mother said to me. Hundreds of young people have written to me or said to me, Jane, I want to thank you because you taught me, because you did it. I can do it too.
7:10 Jay Shetty? That's, that's a beautiful message and it's amazing to hear it from you, especially with your life journey and I mean, living through World War Two as well. And just, just that whole period of your life that you've been through. I, I love that you're sharing that message, Jane. I think it's such a brilliant, brilliant, brilliant voice that we all need to hear today. And unfortunately, it seems that the world is always dealing with a new set of critics, more discouragement and a new set of cynicism or skepticism. And we need voices like yours that continue to break them down and, and help inspire us to think differently.
7:47 Speaker 01 I'm very grateful I grew up in the war because I learned to take nothing for granted. You know, everything was rationed, food and clothes and petrol, everything. And, you know, wasting food was something we wouldn't have dreamed of. If something fell on the floor, you ate it anyway. And nothing was wasted, nothing. And you didn't even take life for granted because your, your family's friends were dying. So growing up in the war, I think, helped to make me what I am, without any question.
8:21 Jay Shetty? Yeah, how do, how do we process that today? When, you know, my generation, obviously younger generations, we're not growing up at that time. And sometimes people feel guilty. They, they feel, well, I haven't had that experience. So I don't know how to live with that gratitude or not take things for granted. Or sometimes people feel, well, I've got other problems today. How, how do you recommend people today process that gift and opportunities that we have today?
8:49 Speaker 01 Well, I think actually we're living through a war right now. I lived through the war with the Nazi Germans. This war is against nature.
9:01 Speaker 01 And I think people need to realise that we're part of the natural world, we're not separate from it. And we shouldn't take nature's bounty for granted. Because in some places, because of this crazy idea that we can have unlimited economic development on a planet with finite natural resources. Already in some places, they're being used up faster, the nature can replenish them. So if young, once young people understand this, they too can learn not to take nature's bounty for granted. Because it won't go on forever unless we develop a different relationship with Mother Nature.
9:43 Jay Shetty? I mean, Jen, you've probably seen across the decades, the war, as you describe it. Has the war got better? Has it got worse? Where have you seen the victims of the war? What is, what have been the greatest losses of this war, as you described it?
10:00 Speaker 01 Well, they, you know, the, on the plus side, there's a growing awareness, and I think that's been helped by the pandemic, quite honestly. Because, you know, people have, when, you know, there was a brief period of time when industry closed down, there was less traffic, when countries went into shutdown. And you can imagine, in some cities of where the air was polluted and there was just traffic and cement, they got a little glimpse of how things should be. Like looking up and seeing stars bright in the night sky instead of through a haze of pollution or even not at all. And hearing birds, they were always there, but they couldn't hear them because of the traffic.
10:46 Speaker 01 And so it's woken people up to how the world could be and should be. And they won't want to go back. To that level of pollution and noise. And so that's a sign of hope that more young people are understanding. We need to change this somehow, somehow. We need to get back to a better relationship with Mother Nature.
11:12 Jay Shetty? What are some of the simple and practical things you think that people can do in their own homes and their own spaces to start that journey? What would you recommend to them if people are saying, you know, I see that, Jen, I do see that, I do see, I prefer it when the world isn't polluted. I do see that we are taking nature for granted. But what do I do? What can I do? If I do one thing, how's that going to help? When people have that mentality, how do you respond to that?
11:37 Speaker 01 Well, it's basically, it's more than just one thing. I don't think there's any one thing. It's a whole plethora of things. And the main thing for young people is to help them understand, and adults too, every single day, every single one of us, make some impact on the planet. And unless we're living in dire poverty, which is another subject, then we have a choice as to what sort of impact we make. For example, what do we buy? Ask ourselves, did it, did this production harm the environment? Did it lead to cruelty to animals?
12:20 Speaker 01 Is it cheap because of unfair wages? If so, don't buy it. And then the companies, and it's happening, will gradually realise that consumer pressure is changing the way they operate. And so it's for young people, this programme we have for young people, Roots and Shoots, they sit down together in their group. And they talk about the things they care about. Some will care about the environment. Some will care about the way we treat animals. Some will care about what's happening to people. And they choose a project, work out what they can do,
13:03 Speaker 01 roll up their sleeves, get out and take action. But they share what they do because it's all interconnected. You know, I learned that in the rainforest. And so when young people take action like that, they actually see that they're making a difference. They see that, yes, they can make clean water in a stream that was polluted. And then they realize, well, in these other, because we're in sixty five countries now. In these other countries, young people are cleaning up streams as well. It's not just us. Other people care too. We're part of a growing community of youth that wants to interact with nature in a new way
13:48 Speaker 01 because of all the harm that our previous generations have inflicted on poor old nature.
13:55 Jay Shetty? Can you give me an example, Jane, of a very human or special moment that you've had interacting with nature? I'm sure there's so many that you've had over the years. I'd love for you to just remember one for us where nature felt truly alive to you, where you experienced nature's abundance and connection to us and our interconnectedness. Because I think, like you said, you know, I was very fortunate. I lived as a monk for three years in India and we lived on a sustainable farm that we managed and created and developed. And I got to see where food comes from and how water is cleaned. And I got to see how trees are planted and grown.
14:38 Jay Shetty? And we made mud bricks. And I got to see how long it took to make one brick that would be dried by the sand. And we went through that process. And I went through that for three years in my twenties, from the age of around twenty one to twenty four. And for me, seeing that firsthand, I started to realize I had no clue where my food came from, where my shelter came from, where my water or my clothes came from, growing up in London, where I was born and raised.
15:06 Speaker 01 Yeah.
15:07 Jay Shetty? And that... Those experiences made nature feel so close to me and so much a part of me. Could you share one of your, I'm sure you have so many, but if there's one that you could remember, whether it's with an animal, whether it's with a plant, whether it's in a rainforest, wherever it may be.
15:21 Speaker 01 Oh gosh, you know, you're right. I've got so many, so many. But one that I think is, is worth sharing was with a chimpanzee. My very, very special chimpanzee, David Graybeard. When I got to Gambia, you know, I was 26. Nobody had studied wild chimpanzees, nobody. And the big problem I had, they, they were, they're very conservative. And they'd take one look at this peculiar white ape and run away. I only had money for six months, so, you know, would I, would I be able to get their trust in time? So fortunately, David Graybeard, for some reason, was less afraid than the others.
16:07 Speaker 01 And by the way, it was David Graybeard who showed me that chimpanzees can use and make tools. When he showed me fishing for termites with stems and twigs, which previously was thought to be, you know, only humans were able to use and make tools. But leave that aside, he'd just begun to allow me to follow him. And I was following him in the forest and I lost him. He's, I thought I had, because he went through a tangled thicket of thorny vegetation. Easy for him, but for me, you know, I got tangled up with my hair and my sandals. Thought I'd lost him. Never mind, I'll see him another day.
16:49 Speaker 01 But when I got through the tangle, there he was, sitting, was looking back. I mean, it honestly looked as though he was waiting for me. I can't imagine he was, but he might have been. So I sat near him and on the ground was a ripe red palm nut, which chimps love, the fruit of the oil nut palm. So I picked it up and held it out towards him on my hand. And he turned his face away. So I perhaps cheekily put my hand a bit closer. And he turned around, he looked directly into my eyes. He reached out and he took that nut, but dropped it.
17:33 Speaker 01 Then very gently squeezed my fingers. And that is how chimpanzees reassure each other. So in that moment, there was a connection between us based on a language of gesture that must have predated human spoken language. He understood that my motive was good, but he really didn't want the nut. And I understood that too. So it was a moment of real connection between me, an absolutely wild animal who'd had no connection with people before. And I think it changed my life.
18:14 Jay Shetty? That's incredible. Thank you so much for sharing that. That's probably one of my favorite ones. And it's such a beautiful example. I recently just, this weekend, I watched The Octopus Teacher on Netflix.
18:26 Speaker 01 Oh, isn't that wonderful?
18:28 Jay Shetty? Yeah, it was so wonderful, wasn't it? Yeah, me and my friends and my wife sat down and watched it together. And not only was the cinematography and videography stunning, it was just such a beautiful example of what you just shared, that human connection with, between a human and an octopus. It's such an incredible way of seeing that come to. I'm sure, you know, we're going to see that more and more as hopefully we get more entwined with nature. I want to speak about this incredible conversation book, The Book of Hope, Survival Guide for Trying Times. I don't feel there could have been a more timely moment for this book to be coming into our lives.
19:12 Jay Shetty? And I would encourage everyone who's listening and watching to go and order a copy of this book because it's the book we've been waiting for. It's the book we've been hoping for. I think a lot of us have been looking for. Navigation during this time, we've been looking for direction and guidance and understanding at this time. And I really do believe that the book of hope, a survival guide for trying times is the book that's going to help us do that. I wanted to ask you, Jane, when you look at the history of hope, if we look at the history of humans needing hope, you've lived through times when people would have said, there is no hope. Yet there was hope that was found and it changed things. Again, today, we hear that rhetoric, there's no hope. Everything's hopeless, everything's...
19:57 Jay Shetty? Tell us about finding hope historically.
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22:49 Speaker 01 Well, I think, you know, I go back to the war again, growing up in the war. Because there was a period when Britain stood alone against the might of Nazi Germany. And Britain was not prepared for war because Chamberlain had wanted to capitulate. And, you know, there was Churchill saying, no, we have to fight these Nazis. We don't want to be overrun by this horrible rhetoric of theirs. And, you know, it was, it was basically Churchill. So there we were, Britain, little Britain. And we were so unprepared. I'm, I'm living in the south of England. The sea is just there.
23:32 Speaker 01 And it was a landing place destined, you know, Nazi troops were going to land quite near us. Do you know what our protection was? A bit of scaffolding out in the sea and a bit of barbed wire, that was it.
23:47 Jay Shetty? Wow.
23:48 Speaker 01 You know, but Churchill was rousing the British people, saying, "We will not be overrun, we will never give in, we will fight them on the beaches, we will fight them in the woods." He was heard to, as thunderous applause came out, he was heard to turn aside to one of the people near him and say, "And we'll fight them with the butt ends of broken bottles, because that's bloody well all we've got."
24:15 Speaker 01 He had that great British sense of humour. So, you know, okay, living through a time when it totally seemed hopeless, how could we survive? And then we had our air force. And again Churchill saying, "Never in the history of mankind has so much been owed by so many to so few." Because these young men, they went out and they got killed, they got killed, they got killed, but they went on volunteering. And, you know, when you grow up with this sort of thing going on around you, and the way that people in London during the Blitz, when every night they were bombed, every night people lost their homes and lost their lives.
24:58 Speaker 01 And my uncle was working in the big hospital there, treating all these victims of the bombing. And yet the people there, they got together, they had this sense of humour, and they managed to pull together and not give in. So, you couldn't have had a better, a better lesson for me in hope. And, you know, in this book, I talk about the reasons for hope, the energy of young people when they know the problem and you empower them to take action. And the resilience of nature, we destroy a place utterly, but give nature time, maybe some help, it will come back again.
25:41 Speaker 01 And then this extraordinary intellect that we have, we haven't used it wisely, we haven't always been wise at all. We don't deserve the title of Homo sapiens, the wise ape, because we've been destroying our only home.
26:02 Speaker 01 Because there's been a disconnect, I think, between this clever brain and the human heart. I love the way we poetically put love and compassion into the human heart. I don't know why, but anyway, that's what we did. And then finally, this indomitable human spirit that won't give in and so often succeeds. How can you not have hope?
26:26 Jay Shetty? Yeah, thank you so much. I can't wait to dive into each of those. As we go through the interview, I wanted to ask you, Jane, about, you know, so many people have lost their hope during the pandemic. And the pandemic broke people down, it shattered their resilience. How do you think people will be able to bring back that hope that they lost during the pandemic? How do we do that?
26:53 Speaker 01 How we do it? I think, you know, one of the big problems is that the media gives so much attention to everything negative. And yeah, they have to, we need to know. But if you think during the pandemic of the stories of courage and bravery and self-sacrifice, people losing their lives to treat sick people, you know, this gives you such a feeling of how amazing humans actually are. And that in itself is enough to give people hope. But then, when you come to all the people who've lost their jobs, living in poverty,
27:33 Speaker 01 the only way to give them hope is to help them. I mean, if you are living where every day you went out to work and you got just enough money to feed yourself and your family, unfair wages meant you could never save. So those people, it's very hard to see how they'll regain hope unless we help them. On the other hand, there are people in those situations who somehow manage to rise above it. And they just get this thing, I'm not going to give in, I will find a way to make a living, I will do something, even if it's something menial, just to get me through this, just to enable me to feed my family.
28:17 Speaker 01 And share those stories, it is possible.
28:21 Speaker 01 Not easy, but it is possible because of this indomitable human spirit.
28:27 Jay Shetty? Hmm, absolutely. And how do you really define hope? And what would you say is the difference between hope and belief? Uh, I think that's a really important, you know, conversation to have. Because I think often we confuse that. So how do you define hope? And what's the difference between hope and belief?
28:44 Speaker 01 Well, hope, you know, some people feel it's very passive. Well, I'm, I'm okay. I, I hope it's going to be okay and they don't do anything. To me, hope is about action. I hope that I can make a difference, but I won't make a difference unless I take action. That I think is, uh, to me, what hope is all about. And the tragedy is that if we lose hope, then we sink into apathy. Because if you don't think your actions are going to make a difference, even a small difference, why bother? Why do anything? Just give up, eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow we die. If you're in a position to buy the food and the drink to be merry.
29:30 Speaker 01 But, um, you know, so that to me, hope is all about taking action. And faith, well, faith, you know, I, I got very, very angry a little while ago with Richard Dawkins, who I don't know if you know his name. But he is a, he's a committed atheist. And he actually spent a lot of money hiring advertisements on the London double-decker red buses. Saying if you believe in God, you're stupid or something like that. Now, if you think of somebody who's a refugee, who's fled either climate change
30:14 Speaker 01 or, or, or war conflict. And sometimes they arrive, and I'm saying now in them, but it could be anywhere. And they've lost their family, they've lost everything. But they've got a faith, they believe in God, that God will put things right. And so people talk about blind faith. But blind faith can give you hope. Because, you know, you believe in God, God's going to make things right. That gives you hope. God will make things right. But still you've got to do your part. And I think the Bible, I mean, I grew up as a Christian, but it could be the Quran, it could be anything.
30:58 Speaker 01 But you know, the Bible is full of messages about about hope and taking action. And not just sitting back and letting the world roll by you.
31:10 Jay Shetty? That's a that's a beautiful description. That's a that's a wonderful way of breaking down the words for us. And I love how you said that. Hope is full of action and, you know, making a change and and trying to be a part of the solution. And you talk about hope as a survival trait, which I thought was really interesting. And and I'm also starting to see, Jen, I would love to get your thoughts on this. I also see hope as a habit. I see it as something we have to practice, as something we have to develop, as something that the more you think of it, the more you build it into your routine and life, the more real it becomes because it's something that has to be practiced and lived on a daily basis. It's not just an idea or something that happens mentally.
31:53 Jay Shetty? What what would you think about that if you think of hope as a habit as well as a survival trait?
31:57 Speaker 01 Well, I guess you could say it's a habit. But I mean, the thing is, once you, once you start take, I mean, all these people who who become totally depressed, sometimes even suicidal, because they look around at the problems of the world and my goodness, it's terrible. I mean, you cannot not be depressed if you look around at the problems of the world. That's why, you know, the message is.
32:28 Speaker 01 Don't think globally, act locally. Act locally first. See that you can make a difference. And when you see that you make a difference, you want to do more. And so, taking that first step gives you hope that your actions do make a difference. And then you want to do more. And as you do more, it's like a feedback loop. And you inspire others to join you. And as you see others making a difference, that increases your hope. And so, it spirals like that. And that's what's happening with the young people in our Roots and Shoots program, I think.
33:08 Jay Shetty? Yeah, I would love to have an experience with the Roots and Shoots program. It sounds so exciting and inspiring. I think it would be wonderful to get to be involved and get to be a part of it, to really see it firsthand. I think there's such a joy that comes from actually being involved and getting your hands dirty at those times and seeing it for yourself. So, I'm wondering, Jen, you know, obviously you have such an abundant optimism. You have such a great strength in you and resilience from everything you've been in. I'm wondering, was there ever a time when someone or something, and I loved what you said earlier, that someone made you angry. And I'm thinking, was there ever a time where something that happened in the world, or someone
33:52 Jay Shetty? or something in nature, made you lose hope, or being close to losing hope? And I want to know how you got it back, because I feel like a lot of people are on that cusp of they're just about to lose hope, and they just need to grab hold of it again.
34:05 Speaker 01 You know, I've experienced deep depression. And, you know, for example, I spent time in a small wooded area quite close to here, and heard the birds. I don't know why I was there, but I was. And two years later, it was yet another shopping mall. I was angry, but first of all, I was really depressed. I was sad. I sat there and felt like crying. But then that sadness turned to anger. How dare they do that? Well, I can't save this place now, but there are other places like this that I can try to save
34:46 Speaker 01 or inspire people living there, encourage them to do what they can to save it before it's too late. So I don't know, it's the way I'm made. You know, I'm very obstinate. I'm like one of these dolls, you know, these dolls with with loaded bases and you knock them over and they jump up. That's how I am. I'm like one of those, I don't know what you call them, but I'm like one of those dolls. I will not be pushed down by anyone. I will bounce up. It's just the way I'm made.
35:18 Jay Shetty? Yeah, I I love that. I I I think that's beautiful. And I think I do I do believe that's the only way we can learn to live. We need, we all need to learn to be that way because it's, you know, as we know, life's gonna keep knocking us down and we have to get back up and we need that resilience. We need that strength. So I I love that. You know, the book mentions four components for hope and making it sustainable and it's goals, pathways, confidence and support. And I I wanted to hear about a few of them that you see. Uh, and you know, you said, and and the conversation you were having, the researchers call it the hope cycle. What kind of goals should we have at this time? What do you think? What goals do you feel are realistic?
36:02 Jay Shetty? But also ambitious enough for us to have at this time?
36:05 Speaker 01 You can't be passionate about everything. But there's enough of us. That's one of the only benefit I can see in the number of people on the planet. There's enough people to tackle all the different problems, you know, because nobody can tackle everything. So with our groups of roots and shoots, for example, you find every group. There are some kids who are passionate about helping animals, some want to help people, some want to help the environment. And so if you choose something you're really passionate about and you see that you can make a difference, you know, that leads to this whole feedback system of hope.
36:48 Speaker 01 So I don't quite know what else I can say about.
36:51 Jay Shetty? No, that's a beautiful example. No, I love that. I thank you so much for sharing that again. I I think that's just a great reminder of recognizing that you don't have to change everything and you can't change everything, but there may be your passion is going to bring you towards a particular area of impact, or a pain that you see is going to bring you to a particular area of impact. Often it's what inspires us and sometimes it's what hurts us that makes us want to take action. And so I I think that's a beautiful answer. And I just wanted to remind people of that. Sometimes, as we were discussing, so many people will be thinking, I'm so overwhelmed. There's so many things that the world needs help with. There's, you know, nature, there's animals, there's cancer, there's. And so knowing that people can just start with what is deeply important to them.
37:36 Speaker 01 Yes, that's the way to start because then that's why Roots and Tuts is working so well because the kids, they're passionate about what they do because they chose it. We don't tell them what to do. And so a Roots and Tuts group will choose different projects, whether they're in inner city or rural area, rich or poor, whether they're in India, Pakistan, and whether they're in Africa, or Florida, or New York, they're going to choose the projects that that are important to them where they live. And so I think it's because it's a it's a not a top down but a bottom up program that it's spreading around the world.
38:19 Jay Shetty? Yes, yes, absolutely.
38:20 Speaker 01 Truly, truly making a difference. And the thing is with these three projects, animals, people, environment, that every group must choose between them, they all share the result of their projects and therefore begin to understand how everything is interrelated. You know, I learned that in the rainforest, every species has a role to play in this beautiful tapestry of life. And I see it as when one species disappears from an ecosystem. It's like pulling a thread from that beautiful tapestry. And as enough threads are pulled, that ecosystem, that that tapestry will hang in tatters and the ecosystem will collapse.
39:05 Jay Shetty? Oh, that's such a great metaphor and analogy for us to visually, I could visualize that as you were describing it. And one of the things that I observed in nature that I love so much is that every part of nature is always serving. So the trees are providing shade, they're providing fruits and flowers, the water is moving and providing, the sun is providing heat and warmth and light and every aspect of nature is always in service to others. And it seems that the only part of nature that is not in service is often us as humans and people where we're trying to serve ourselves versus serve and give and provide and share.
39:48 Jay Shetty? And you talk about this beautiful point about, you know, the reasons for hope and one of them you give is the human intellect. And we've all heard that it's our minds that separate us from animals. But in your book, you mentioned that great apes can learn 400 or more words of American sign language, work out complex problems on a computer. And like some animals you mentioned, I think, including, I think it's pigs, I love painting and drawing.
40:17 Speaker 01 And you mentioned the octopus.
40:19 Jay Shetty? Yes, exactly, exactly. And so if animals are smarter than most people give them credit for, what is it truly that's set? This episode is brought to you by State Farm. We talk a lot about intentional decision making and that extends to the practical stuff too, like making sure your coverage actually works for your life. State Farm is there to meet you where you are and they know how sweet it is to feel good about your decisions. Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can choose to bundle and save with a personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings and eligibility vary by state.
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42:06 Jay Shetty? So it's a part when you use the human intellect as a reason for hope.
42:10 Speaker 01 Well, the human intellect differs from that of all other animals, chimpanzees and everybody else, to the lengths to which it's gone. Like, there's no animal, no matter how intelligent on the planet today, that could design a rocket that goes up to Mars, launches a little robot that goes around taking photographs. That is out of the category, out of the league of animal intellect. I mean, the way we're talking now is an example of human intellect. This intellect, the Zooms and the podcasts and all the things that we do, it's just amazing. And I believe that that was at least in part triggered
42:54 Speaker 01 by the fact that at some point in our evolution, we developed this way of communicating, as we are now with words. So with words, you and I can send out a message to people and teach them something they never thought of before. We can teach our children about things going on in other countries. Chimpanzees can't do that. Their children learn by observing. But we can use words. And we can bring people together to have discussions, to try and solve problems. People with different outlooks on life, different, different jobs, different skills.
43:34 Speaker 01 So that's the difference. And this is why it's so bizarre that we're destroying our only home. We don't want to live on Mars. We know that now. And I think it's a disconnect between this clever, clever brain. And as I said before, the human heart, love and compassion. And honestly, I truly, truly believe it's only when head and heart work in harmony that we can achieve our true human potential, which some people have.
44:05 Jay Shetty? Yes, I, I think that, I, that was so wonderfully shared. I, I really believe that our intellect and our intention have been disconnected. And so the intellect is not being guided by or directed by intention. It's being free to do whatever it needs to
44:29 Speaker 01 Yeah, greed.
44:30 Jay Shetty? to, to feel sense gratified and to feel self, uh, you know, self obsession almost, freedom to that point. And the, the love and compassion you're speaking about is such an intentionality with how we use this intellect that we've been gifted with.
44:46 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah. I mean, it was Mahatma Gandhi who said, "The planet can produce for human need, but not human greed."
44:54 Jay Shetty? Yeah.
44:54 Speaker 01 And, you know, we, we need a new definition of success. Because at the moment, if you talk to most kids, what's a successful person? Oh, somebody who's making a lot of money? Or maybe somebody who's got a lot of power? And that's the way we think about success. To me, success is about having enough that you can feed yourself and your family. You can perhaps go for a nice holiday, that you can enjoy spending time in nature and, and with your family. And people just, you know, they did an experiment
45:35 Speaker 01 where they followed different immigrant families who all arrived the same with a wife and a kid and nothing.
45:45 Speaker 01 And part of the group, they managed to get jobs and they managed to find somewhere to live. And then they upgraded it, they got a little house, they could send their kids to school. And there's this King of Bhutan's happiness index. And as this happened, whatever that index is, went up. The next group, they, in the same way, started to improve their lives. But when they got to that level, where the first group stopped, they went on. They wanted more, they wanted more money, they wanted more power, more wealth, more houses. And they succeeded, but the happiness level dropped. And I love that experiment.
46:30 Speaker 01 Because they're true, lots of very wealthy people aren't happy people.
46:34 Jay Shetty? Mm hmm, absolutely, yeah. And I think when, I, I, I love that you shared that study. And I've also found that when someone's intention for more is so that they can do more service, whether it be financial, whether it be growth in any area of life, it becomes actually very beautiful. We see so many, so much incredible work happening with the world when people use their platforms for a higher purpose. As you've seen, like, yeah, people who have achieved great things and wonderful things and they're using that power or that influence or that money to, to have a change in people's lives and, and for the environment as opposed to themselves only, as you, as you rightly said.
47:16 Jay Shetty? And I think about that as something that's so, so needed as well to encourage young people to say, hey, if you wanna go and be successful and you want to go and do this, do it. But do it in an intentional way to use it as a way to serve. Do it with that in mind that you don't want to harm the environment and you want to improve the lives for people and animals. And I think if we could train people to not shy away from success, but like you said, redefine success and use success for something greater than success itself, then that to me feels like a hopeful environment and world to live in.
47:52 Speaker 01 It's quite true. And you know, when I'm giving lectures, I always say that we all need money to live.
48:00 Speaker 01 It goes wrong unless we live for money. Unless, unless we live for money in order to help make the world a better place. And then I always make everybody laugh because I pause and I say, like giving some money to the Jane Goodall Institute.
48:20 Jay Shetty? That's brilliant. I love that. That is so good. That is such a beautiful statement, though. Could you repeat the full statement for us again? Because it was so perfect and I was taking it in that I, I want everyone else to hear it. I want everyone else to hear it again.
48:34 Speaker 01 Okay, so I tell people that, you know, we all need money to live. And it tends to go wrong when we live for money. Unless we live for money in order to use that money to make the world better for animals, people, environment, like giving some funds to the Jane Goodall Institute.
49:00 Jay Shetty? I was holding back my laughter because I knew it was coming. I love that. That's, that's brilliant. But it's such, it's such a profound statement and it is, it is such a wonderful way. And I think that, that idea of engaging whatever gifts we have, whatever wonderful opportunities we've been given to engage them back into the service. We had this beautiful practice, Jane, that I think, I think you'd appreciate from what you just said. When we would, in, in India, it's common to bathe in holy rivers, whether it's the, the Ganges, the Yamuna, the, the Kaveri, many holy rivers. And whenever we would, as monks, bathe in these rivers, the practice would be that we would first scoop out water into our hands as much as we could have.
49:44 Jay Shetty? And then we would pour it back into the river. And the purpose of this exercise was to show us that whatever we were doing, we were just scooping from the source and giving back to the source. And the idea that any gifts you have, anything that you hold in your life, you want to engage it back into the environment. So we take from the environment, but then we give it back. And the amount we take can never be as much as the environment gives to us and offers to us. And it was, it was just always a beautiful ritual that, that made me remember that you're only here to serve. You're only a steward, you're, you're only a, you're only a housekeeper. You know, you're not a, it's, it's not a, it's not your home in that sense. It's, it's your home, but it's, yeah, it's not your, you're not the owner. It's your home, but you're not the owner.
50:29 Speaker 01 That's right. And that's why, that's why you must feel so sad about the way some of these holy rivers have been polluted and damaged.
50:39 Jay Shetty? Absolutely, absolutely.
50:40 Speaker 01 You know, it's heartbreaking, isn't it?
50:43 Jay Shetty? It is. It's really painful to watch. And you know, I've been trying in my own way with the, with the organizations I work with to try and be a part of that. But yeah, it's, it's becoming very difficult. And like you said, though, we don't lose hope because we may not be able to impact this one place, but there's another place where that's happening. And I, I love that you said that. I think that's such a, we often get so attached to who we help and how we help. And, and I think real love and real compassion is I want to help anyone who needs it and everyone who needs it. I'm able to, I'm able to see that even though this is what I see as valuable, if I can't impact that, I can, I can create some value over here. I think that's a beautiful reminder.
51:24 Speaker 01 And in case you didn't know, we have just started a Jane Goodall Institute in India, which is registered as an NGO with roots and tubes spreading all over India.
51:36 Jay Shetty? Wow.
51:36 Speaker 01 You know, hundreds of young people wanting to help in this fight to, to restore rivers and things like that. I just thought you might like to know that.
51:46 Jay Shetty? Yeah, I am. I, I love hearing that. I think on my next visit there as well, I'd, I'd love to experience that. Sounds, sounds amazing. The second reason you give for hope now, and I love these reasons. I think they were so powerful, is the resilience of nature. And one in particular, one story really stands out. And I'd love for you to share it with my community today about the survivor tree. If you were happy enough to share that, I think it would be wonderful for them to hear.
52:13 Speaker 01 I happened to be in New York when the suicide bombers flew into the Twin Towers. And it was terrible. It was terrible being there, you know? Everything went quiet and you could only hear police cars and ambulance sirens. And
52:31 Speaker 01 It was, you know, this total devastation and it was horrible, it was horrible. Well, it turned out that when they were clearing the rubble, it was about two weeks after the towers fell. This um, young woman actually, she saw the remains of a tree on a truck. And I don't know how she persuaded the truck driver, but anyway, she said, but this tree isn't dead. Oh, he was going to put it on a, on a, on a dumpster and destroy it. So anyway, she managed to get the tree to a botanical garden and they nurtured and nurtured.
53:11 Speaker 01 All that was left was one big root and one trunk with one branch. That's all that was left. But they nurtured it, nurtured it, nurtured it, planted it back on the site where the towers fell. And now it's a calorie pear, not a pear tree, but a calorie pear. And in the spring, it's big now, it has these beautiful blossoms. And so I was, I had a group of my young Roots and Shoots people around on International Peace Day. And the tree was shedding its leaves because it was autumn.
53:52 Speaker 01 And so when I looked up into these branches, looked past this great black fissure, which is, you know, where the tree amazingly mended itself. And there was the nest of a bird that obviously had fledged and flown. And that was like, the tree itself has survived the most horrendous attack. And it's put out leaves and it's beautiful. And it's nurtured another life form where the babies have fledged and flown out into the world. It, I just, it was so wonderful.
54:30 Jay Shetty? Yeah, absolutely. What a wonderful story. I'm so glad you shared that with us. Thank you. And, you know, to... To hear about such devastation, you know, you could never imagine that something could recover from that, but it did with some nurturing, with some love, with some attention. And the third and fourth reason you share with us, which we've spoken about a lot today, and I would love for everyone to get the book to read more about one and two, but three and four as well. Three is all about empowering young people and four is about that human spirit. So, anyone who's listening and watching right now and you're loving these stories and these examples and you're being filled with hope. I really hope everyone who's listening and watching, your body, your mind, your soul, your heart are being filled with hope.
55:14 Jay Shetty? And I promise you, if you read this book, you will immerse yourself in hope. And I think hope needs to be an immersion. It needs to be an absorption in hope for us to really feel its benefits. Just like this tree receives such care and attention. You need that care and attention. And we need to give that care and attention to ourselves. In the last part of the book, you talk about becoming a messenger of hope. And I think often when we become messages of hope, people can say, "Oh, you know, stop being so positive." And, you know, "Oh, you're just always trying to find the silver lining." And there could be a lot of skepticism and cynicism around hope, unfortunately, because we've created a world that amplifies negativity,
55:57 Jay Shetty? as you said earlier, with what we see on TV and the news. If someone's listening and they're like, "Jane, I want to become a messenger of hope." What's something that they could do today for themselves or practically, Jane, that you think will help them continue that desire to become a messenger or an ambassador of hope?
56:16 Speaker 01 You know, the first thing is to really think in your mind, "What do I really care about?" "Okay, I really care about the way stray dogs are treated." "Some countries, stones are thrown at them." "I want to help. What can I do?" And then you find that you can volunteer in a shelter or you can adopt a little puppy or something like that. And that first step.
56:47 Speaker 01 Gives you a feeling of what it's like to be hopeful because you've made a difference. It's going to be different for everybody. And all you need to be a messenger of hope is to feel hopeful. And to be able to tell stories, stories. It's no good talking statistics and all that kind of stuff because nobody remembers. But, but stories, like the ones that you asked me to share. People, even if they get the details wrong, they remember the message.
57:18 Jay Shetty? Hmm.
57:19 Speaker 01 And so I think messengers of hope need to be storytellers.
57:24 Jay Shetty? Hmm.
57:25 Speaker 01 They need to have experienced the joy of doing something and seeing that you've made a difference.
57:32 Jay Shetty? Hmm.
57:32 Speaker 01 And the even greater joy of seeing that you've inspired others.
57:37 Jay Shetty? Hmm.
57:37 Speaker 01 To get that same feeling by taking action and making a difference.
57:42 Jay Shetty? Yes, yes, absolutely. I love that answer and I couldn't agree with you more. Stories define us and they define how we feel and they're the stories that resonate with our heart and. Statistics, again, like you said, statistics talk to our head, but stories deal with our hearts. So, as you said, the head and heart alignment, I think that's a beautiful reminder for all of our messengers of hope. Jane, you've been so generous and kind and wonderful with your time. I couldn't encourage people more to go and grab a copy of the book. We'll have the link in all of the captions. You can order it. If today's conversation has touched you, I promise you the conversation in the book will truly, truly help you and it will help you become a hopeful messenger
58:26 Jay Shetty? and help you with your children and make them hopeful messengers and people around you in the world. And we need more hope in the world. It's, it's the thing that we need most of right now. But Jane, we end every episode with a final five, which are a fast five, where you have to answer every question in one word to one sentence maximum. So we're about to do that, but before we do that, I just thought of something actually. I was asked. CBS is doing a primetime show called The Activist, and I was asked to be a guest judge the other day. And the three areas they chose are education, healthcare, and the environment. And they're encouraging people to come up with ideas, and they're going to be funding them.
59:11 Jay Shetty? And I believe the final meeting is with Leonardo DiCaprio, who's going to be really encouraging the ideas to move forward. I wanted to ask you, when you think, when you see all these things happening today in the mainstream shows, people such as Leonardo DiCaprio being so forward-thinking about the environment, does that give you hope? How do you feel about those aspects outside where people are taking action?
59:36 Speaker 01 Yeah, it's great. I mean, of course, it gives you hope, because people like Leonardo DiCaprio, Angelina Jolie, Dave Matthews, people listen to them, and they're people I probably couldn't reach. So, you know, the fact that they're out there and inspiring people and giving them hope, of course, it reinforces my own hope that we are getting there, that together we can make a difference, and together we will.
1:00:05 Jay Shetty? Yeah, that's beautiful. I love that. Okay, we're going to move into the final five, one word to one sentence, maximum for each of these. Jane, are you ready for your fast five?
1:00:16 Speaker 01 Well, I'm no good at this, but go on. You could end up making a fool of me, that's fine.
1:00:22 Jay Shetty? No, no.
1:00:23 Speaker 01 I'd be made a fool of.
1:00:24 Jay Shetty? Not at all, not at all. That is not my intention. Okay, so the first question is, what is the best advice you've ever received?
1:00:33 Speaker 01 The best advice I've ever received was from my mother, when she said, "If you really want to do something, work hard, take advantage of opportunity, and don't give up."
1:00:44 Jay Shetty? What is the worst advice you've ever received?
1:00:47 Speaker 01 "You can't make a difference, so don't bother."
1:00:50 Jay Shetty? Great answer. Okay, question number three. What's the first thing you do in the morning and the last thing you do at night?
1:00:58 Speaker 01 Try and get out of bed to face another day of podcasts and webinars and those things. The last thing I do, watch some absolutely mindless and non-intellectual, something on TV or an audiobook or something like that. Take my mind away from all the horror of the day.
1:01:23 Jay Shetty? I love that. Question number four, what's the biggest lesson you've learned in the last 12 months?
1:01:29 Speaker 01 Patience.
1:01:30 Jay Shetty? Hmm, wonderful. And fifth and final question, if you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be?
1:01:40 Speaker 01 The law that is shared by every single major religion. Do unto others as you would have them do to you.
1:01:49 Jay Shetty? Beautiful. Thank you so much, everyone. The Book of Hope. Jane Guro, we are so grateful for your time and energy. I can't wait to share this with millions of people in our community that listen every single week. And I can't wait for more people to read the Survival Guide for trying times, which is so needed right now. So thank you so much. And I hope this wasn't too much of a stressful podcast journey that you have to get away from. But I'm really, really honored to have spoken to you, Jane, and I look forward to meeting you. So thank you so much.
1:02:23 Speaker 01 Yep. Well, I've had a wonderful talk with you. It wasn't stressful at all. It was fun and inspirational, and I look forward to meeting you as well.
1:02:34 Jay Shetty? Thank you so much.
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