Ep. 939: Fat Buck, Wet Buck, and The Strangest Bad Public Land Idea

Randall Williams and the MeatEater Crew discuss: putting a baseball stadium in a national park; a very fat buck; a grizzly bear stealing an elk; Steve and Rob Sand discuss his very wet buck; Bryan Burrough shared about his new podcast Gunfighters; and more! Check out Gunfighters https://www.themeateater.com/listen/gunfighters Connect with Steve https://www.themeateater.com/authors/steven-rinella and The MeatEater Podcast Network https://www.youtube.com/@MeatEaterPodcastNetwork Steve on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/stevenrinella and Twitter https://twitter.com/stevenrinella?lang=en MeatEater on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/meateater, Facebook https://www.facebook.com/StevenRinellaMeatEater/, Twitter https://twitter.com/MeatEaterTV?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor, and YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@MeatEaterPodcastNetwork See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.

• 0:04Speaker 01

  Granger knows if you're a procurement manager at an industrial manufacturing facility, you're balancing inventory and budget while sourcing critical supplies across the operation. Too much inventory, costs climb. Too little, production slows. Granger's $2 billion in on-hand inventory helps you get what you need when you need it. So you can help keep budgets balanced and lines moving. Call 1-800-GRanger, click Granger.com, or just stop by. Granger, for the ones who get it done.

• 0:34Speaker 02

  Breathe in and reset with Lincoln Rejuvenate. An available multi-sensory feature in the 2027 Lincoln Navigator SUV. Experience the luxurious massage, visuals, and sense to help you relax in the driver's seat. It's your time for a reset. Visit Lincoln.com to learn more. Lincoln Rejuvenate does not operate unless the vehicle is in park. When the vehicle is off, or if any door is open, do not use the feature in a closed garage or in other enclosed areas. See owner's manual for important operating instructions. Lincoln and Navigator trademarks of Ford or its affiliates. All rights reserved.

• 1:05Speaker 03

  Football season is here. And if you're looking for the boldest bourbon on the roster, look no further than Wild Turkey Bourbon. Kentucky-born with 100 years of know-how. Wild Turkey Bourbon never compromises. It's aged longer, never watered down. So enjoy a bourbon that's filled with character and bold flavor this football season. Wild Turkey. Go bold, go home. Copyright 2026, Campari America, New York, New York. Never compromise. Drink responsibly.

• 1:39Steven Rinella?

  Welcome to the news show, folks. We've got a great show for you today. We've got one of the strangest bad public land ideas in recent memory. We've got a big old fat, fat buck that one of you listeners killed in Minnesota. We've got a story about some hunter harassment justice in Alaska. And we've got a pre-recorded interview from Steve with Iowa gubernatorial candidate and Meat Eater podcast guest Rob Sand. In our script here, that is described as an interview pertaining to a big wet buck. But because I haven't seen the interview, I don't know what that means yet. But first, Brody's got a story from us out of Wyoming about an elk hunter who got cited and then unsighted for a grizzly bear stealing his carcass.

• 2:21Speaker 05

  Yep, we're gonna have a little roundtable discussion about this one.

• 2:27Speaker 05

  So Ron Niziolek, I think I'm pronouncing that close anyway. Experienced bowhunter from Cody, Wyoming. On September 19th, he was hunting with his-

• 2:40Steven Rinella?

  Last year.

• 2:42Speaker 05

  Yeah, last year. He was hunting with his buddy Adam Miles, Northwestern Wyoming. Like, very high density of grizzlies. He was hunting in a spot, he's hunted before, so he knew the deal there.

• 2:56Speaker 05

  Late afternoon, he shoots a bull. Do you have the picture, Phil? Nice bull. Nice bull. Shoots that bull late at, it's late in the afternoon, so they watch it walk off and bed down about 100 yards away. But by this time, it's like very close to getting dark and they don't want to mess with cutting it up and, you know, potentially run into a grizzly at night. So they, they just leave it and then they come back in at first light with pistols drawn. And they find the bull dead right where it was laying. Only, it was partially consumed by a grizzly. Bite marks, guts ripped out, poop, bear poop all over the place.

• 3:39Speaker 05

  So Niziolek was concerned about potentially contaminated meat and the possibility of the bear returning, which is very legitimate. Like, that bear was probably close by.

• 3:54Speaker 05

  You know, you guys ran into a similar situation in Alaska a while back. I think his concerns were warranted. So they decided against skinning and quartering it. They photographed the bull, cut off its head, punched his elk tag, and just left the carcass. And on the way out, he, he warned other hunters and cowboys tending cattle in the area about the carcass, you know, in case a grizzly came back. But he didn't report the incident to Wyoming Fish and Game. So, little, little time passes. And a Wyoming game warden, Jordan Winner, investigated, investigated the carcass after

• 4:36Speaker 05

  achieving, receiving some tips from other hunters that, you know, saw a headless elk carcass and, you know, rightly so called it in.

• 4:47Speaker 05

  Thanksgiving, so almost two months later, the winter interviews Niziolek confiscated his elk skull, antlers, and cellphone as potential evidence. I'm assuming in like a poaching, you know, investigation. And February 26th, Wyoming Game and Fish issues Niziolek two misdemeanor citations. Wasting a game animal, taking parts from a wasted big game animal. $450 and $900. Or, no, $450 each, $900 combined.

• 5:27Speaker 05

  Niziolek contests both citations rather than paying the fine. So it's, it's going to court at this point. August of this year, the case goes before a jury in Park County. And prosecutors argued that Wyoming law requires, it's a wanton waste law, typical, retrieve all edible portions of the animal, quarters, backstraps, tenderloins. The game warden testified that Niziolek should have packed out the meat regardless of suspected contamination. And then figured out later if it was edible or not.

• 6:05Speaker 05

  Niziolek says spending 90 minutes processing a bear claimed carcass posed an unreasonable safety risk. And his attorney also raised concerns about Game and Fish providing requested interview recordings only a day and a half before the trial. In the end, the verdict finds Niziolek not guilty of both charges and his skull and antlers are returned.

• 6:32Speaker 05

  Some, some interesting points that came out of this. Wyoming Game and Fish's own Hunting and Bear Country educational video warns hunters against attempting to drive a bear away from a carcass it has claimed.

• 6:49Speaker 05

  And, and Niziolek argues he was following this advice. Also cited concerns about contamination from the grizzly saliva, urine, feces, and recalled an early warning from a game warden against salvaging bear-fed meat. He acknowledged that in hindsight, he should have contacted, like, Game and Fish, like, immediately about what happened. But he hopes this case prompts clearer agency guidance regarding situations like this.

• 7:23Speaker 05

  This case does not change anything as far as, it acquitted Niziolek, but it doesn't change anything about Wyoming's meat salvage regulations. So, you know, my thoughts here that, yes, he should have called it in, but like, he shouldn't have gotten cited.

• 7:45Speaker 05

  Their own, their own educational video warns hunters not to do that. So he's kind of following the advice he should.

• 7:53Steven Rinella?

  But do you feel like he did everything he could the day he shot the bull?

• 7:58Speaker 05

  Well, that's, that's the thing. You know, they could have certainly packed it out. I don't think it's unreasonable to leave an elk overnight in grizzly bear country if it's dark.

• 8:10Speaker 05

  You know, why-

• 8:10Steven Rinella?

  But you're increasing the chances that there's gonna be a bear on it.

• 8:14Speaker 05

  Sure. But like, you know, yeah, maybe they could have said, you should have cut it up. You should have got it out of there. But they were also waiting for that elk to die. Like, they could, they couldn't have gone in and killed it at night, right? It was still alive when they left.

• 8:32Steven Rinella?

  Uh, I don't know. I mean, I think if they, if it's partially, you have an arrow in it and you're waiting for it to die. Can you go in there after shooting hours and fling more arrows?

• 8:41Speaker 05

  I don't, I don't.

• 8:42Steven Rinella?

  I don't know what the answer is.

• 8:44Speaker 05

  I, I would, that's a gray area. So like, if you don't know, you can't go do it.

• 8:50Steven Rinella?

  As, as someone who hunts in grizzly country, I, I would be very leery of shooting an elk at last light, knowing if I'm not going to get it out that night.

• 9:01Speaker 05

  Sure. It wasn't at last light. It was, you know, still late afternoon, you know? It, it took, it, it didn't die right away. So like, choices were made. But I, I think, to me, the issue here is that the game warden that sighted him is like, kind of contradicted, contradicting what Wyoming game and fish's own advice is. And that's a problem.

• 9:31Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 9:31Speaker 05

  Like, there needs to be like consistency there.

• 9:35Steven Rinella?

  Yeah. I think once the bear had claimed the carcass, yeah, I agree with you completely.

• 9:40Speaker 05

  Mm hmm.

• 9:41Steven Rinella?

  The question is, and again, the, the details aren't in the story, but the question is like the events leading up to that. Did they take the proper?

• 9:50Speaker 05

  But what, what details aren't in the story? They were waiting for the animal to die. And they can't like, that happens.

• 9:58Steven Rinella?

  Like, were they watching it literally at a hundred yards and it was, its head was up and it got dark?

• 10:04Speaker 05

  Yes. They watched, they watched it bed down.

• 10:08Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, I got that part, but then did they watch it until dark?

• 10:12Speaker 05

  Yeah. They waited. They, they felt like they did not want to risk field dressing it at night. Anyway, it's a common.

• 10:22Steven Rinella?

  Well, no, they wouldn't know that they could even field dress it if the thing's alive.

• 10:26Speaker 05

  It's a very common practice to leave an animal overnight, like for.

• 10:31Steven Rinella?

  Oh, uncutted? I don't think so at all. I've never heard of that.

• 10:37Steven Rinella?

  Like unless you're like completely sure that it's.

• 10:39Speaker 05

  If, if, wait a minute, if you shoot a whitetail at night at last light and you're not sure if it's, if it's dead or not, you're.

• 10:46Steven Rinella?

  Well, then it's a common practice. But like if he's dead, then you don't do that.

• 10:52Speaker 05

  But you wouldn't know if he's dead.

• 10:54Steven Rinella?

  Right. Exactly. Which I'm saying is that I'm not getting those.

• 10:58Speaker 05

  Mark, what do you think?

• 11:01Speaker 06

  I, I, I see what both of you are saying. I think like, if it were me in this situation, based on what we're hearing, I would wait for as long as I possibly could to see if this thing actually dies. And if it actually is dead, then I, I think, you know, you're faced with this dilemma, which is do I, can I take care of this thing as fast as possible before things get dicey? Or do I risk the diciness in the morning? And I guess you guys have more experience hunting in grizzly country than I do, but probably dealing with the diciness in the morning is, is a safer bet.

• 11:32Speaker 05

  Yeah. And, and the thing was like out in the open, you know, you could see it from a long ways away. You can see, see where it died.

• 11:39Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 11:39Speaker 05

  So, you know.

• 11:42Steven Rinella?

  Yeah. I guess my, my other thought here is like, there should be, I don't know if you want to make it a requirement or not, but like, I do think reporting that to Fish and Game, when you have a bear on a carcass, not only just to absolve yourself of any sort of legal issues, but it's also a safety issue. Like if you're near a trailhead and you leave a carcass, like I, I know, um, I know of a case where somebody I know, we got the animal out, but the gut pile was

• 12:15Speaker 05

  Right.

• 12:16Steven Rinella?

  nearby and he called, he called just to say, hey, there's a gut pile in this area, which is near a hiking trail.

• 12:23Speaker 05

  Yeah. And.

• 12:23Steven Rinella?

  And then he actually got sighted.

• 12:25Speaker 05

  Oh, really?

• 12:26Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 12:26Speaker 05

  For leaving.

• 12:27Steven Rinella?

  He got sighted for leaving bear attractant near, near a trail.

• 12:31Speaker 05

  Um, and Mont, fish parks and wildlife will put up notices, like there is a, you know.

• 12:37Steven Rinella?

  Exactly. So like, I don't blame the investigator for thinking that there's something fishy when someone calls in an elk missing a head.

• 12:44Speaker 05

  Sure.

• 12:44Steven Rinella?

  Yeah. And the, they never got a call about a bear taking the carcass. Like there's things that could have been done to lead to a different outcome, but I also don't think this guy was like up to no good or anything, you know?

• 12:57Speaker 05

  And, and it does talk a little bit in the.

• 12:59Steven Rinella?

  It's just a sticky situation.

• 13:01Speaker 05

  Yeah. It does talk a little bit in the article about how this, like, in this area, like it's not uncommon for this thing to happen. So I think that might be his justification. Um, for this thing. And, you know, the bears are certainly not that scared of people and they're just going to roll in and grab that elk regardless. Um, yeah, I'm not saying the guy didn't do anything wrong, but I feel like there needs to be some consistency between what the game warden's doing and what the state is saying.

• 13:32Speaker 06

  Well, I also think like some clarity could be needed, not just in Montana, but elsewhere, if it's not already there around, you know, the wanton waste issue after consumption by another animal. Like at what point are you clear of that? If, if a bear or a lion or coyote comes in and eats half the animal, are you, are you required to take the little scraps and hope it's okay?

• 13:54Speaker 05

  Right.

• 13:55Speaker 06

  Um, I haven't read anything that's super clear about that before.

• 13:58Speaker 05

  No.

• 13:58Steven Rinella?

  I'd like to know if the whole contamination thing, like are, are you basically then at this point just worried that there's bacteria that comes from the bear's saliva and mouth and claws?

• 14:09Speaker 06

  Sorts of stuff, feces.

• 14:10Speaker 05

  Yeah. They lay down on those things. Yeah.

• 14:13Steven Rinella?

  Roll around on them. Yeah.

• 14:14Speaker 06

  I don't think that'd be good for you. Just saying.

• 14:18Steven Rinella?

  Yeah. I've always thought like the, the, you know, it's typically defined as edible portions of certain body parts and it does make sense that they don't want to line out each and every possible scenario. But I do think like your best judgment, and then I've, you know, like if I've shot something and there's a chunk of meat that's just totally like not worth

• 14:42Speaker 05

  Right.

• 14:43Steven Rinella?

  carrying out, like not, obviously not like a whole quarter, but like part of the quarter and I'm going to carve it off. I'll take pictures of, of what I leave behind.

• 14:52Speaker 05

  Really smart.

• 14:53Steven Rinella?

  Yeah. In case anybody, if case you get to the trailhead and someone's like, looks like you like quartered that thing a little thin, you know, like top shelf did or something like that. I'm like, no, here's, here's what the carcass looked like. Here's the, here's the part that is not with what I would ordinarily pack out. And here's why.

• 15:09Speaker 05

  Yeah. I've seen people leave whole front shoulders.

• 15:12Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 15:12Speaker 05

  That were.

• 15:12Steven Rinella?

  Cause they say they're shot up, but it's.

• 15:15Speaker 05

  Which could get you in trouble.

• 15:16Steven Rinella?

  Yeah. I, I always think like it's, everybody has a phone on them. Everybody, if you, like, if you're doing the right thing and you have reasons for what you're doing and you're within the, like, within the law, I just don't want to leave any questions as to what happened.

• 15:29Speaker 05

  Randall's a smart guy.

• 15:31Speaker 06

  Better safe than sorry.

• 15:33Steven Rinella?

  Don't want to end up in.

• 15:34Speaker 05

  There you go, folks.

• 15:35Steven Rinella?

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 15:36Speaker 05

  That's what we think about that.

• 15:38Steven Rinella?

  Well, thank you, Brody. This was a, uh, story that like definitely as someone who hunts in grizzly bear country, it makes you revisit your thinking on all these things and how you approach it. But, um, now to, on to our news.

• 15:57Steven Rinella?

  And ladies and gentlemen, in the event that you're watching on YouTube, you may have noticed that there is in fact a fifth member of our broadcast team today. We're joined here by Brian Burra. I'm told that that's Burra?

• 16:12Speaker 05

  You know, that is the way the family

• 16:15Steven Rinella?

  Yes.

• 16:15Speaker 05

  pronounces it. But if you say Burra, nobody knows how to pronounce it. So, so, so when we're introducing ourselves, we'll say burrow.

• 16:23Steven Rinella?

  Okay. Well, well, you're on your home turf now at this point, so we'll call it Burra.

• 16:28Speaker 05

  Well, and I, I feel like your family now.

• 16:30Steven Rinella?

  Yeah. Yeah. Part of the meat eater family. Uh, Gunfighters with Brian Burra is out now. This is our newest podcast. It's on the history podcast feed that was formerly the American West. Uh, Brian, you've, this is not your first time in the studio here. You were on the main meat eater podcast.

• 16:47Speaker 05

  Last summer came in and talked with Stephen and all y'all guys.

• 16:49Steven Rinella?

  Yep. Yep. So, um, give folks a taste of what this podcast is all about. The gunfighters.

• 16:57Speaker 05

  The, this is a nonfiction historical narrative, really the first narrative history of what I call the gunfighter era, which is a period from 1865, when the first kind of nationally known gunfight was widely reported until the end of it, which I put an arbitrary date on, but I feel like it's, it's right to end the era in 1901, when Butch and Sundance uh, got on a freighter in Brooklyn and headed down to South America. At that point, um, the, you know, the, all the major gunfighter figures from Wild Bill Hickok to Billy the Kid to Wyatt Earp, had pretty much moved on in one way or the other. And so I wanted to tell the story of that 35 year period in one single story.

• 17:41Speaker 05

  And it's a lot of fun.

• 17:43Steven Rinella?

  Yeah. So this, so you published a book last year by the same name. And then this podcast is sort of an adaptation and expansion of that material for.

• 17:52Speaker 05

  Exactly. I came on and we all talked about it. And I know my sales numbers certainly went up and I gather y'all's, y'all's numbers looked a little bit better. So Stephen reached out at some point and said, Hey, could we turn this into a conversational uh, podcast where we tell the stories, the accurate stories of history, um, in a fun way. And that's, we are in the process of, of making those. We're, I mean, I'm in Montana this week doing 10 of them. And we've got two already out. I think maybe the third one came out this week. They come out so fast you lose count. And there'll be 26 in all, and we're tremendously excited about it.

• 18:26Steven Rinella?

  Yeah. So it's very, it's similar sort of in the format to what Dan was doing with the American West. And that a lot of that was adaptations of things that he'd written previously. And it's a bi-weekly, I think that's correct. If it's every other week.

• 18:41Speaker 06

  It's every week.

• 18:42Steven Rinella?

  It's every week.

• 18:43Speaker 06

  It is every week. I know.

• 18:44Steven Rinella?

  Well, I really, too bad we can't go back and change that, but it's every week, 26 episodes. Um, video on YouTube and Apple podcasts. And the video is, is unlike anything that we've done here at Meat Eater. If you want to.

• 18:58Speaker 05

  Let me tell you, this is unlike anything I'd done before. I was, I was very happy coming in and being the, you know, elderly voice of an author on a podcast. And now suddenly I'm looking up and there's photos flying around and illustrations and some of you guys doing voiceover talent. And then every now and then you see this kind of, you know, old guy on camera. And it's like much more akin to television than it is to a podcast. If that's what turns you on. I mean, I'm really enjoying it.

• 19:25Steven Rinella?

  Yeah. No, it's been fun to sort of watch from the outside. I think we've all dipped our toes a little bit in the voice acting realm, but, um, check it out. I think there are three episodes. I looked this morning. I think there's three episodes out now. You can listen to it wherever you get your podcasts by searching gunfighters. Again, check out the video on YouTube and Apple podcasts.

• 19:49Steven Rinella?

  Do you, can we talk about your next project? Or should we keep that hush, hush?

• 19:53Speaker 05

  We can do anything you want to, Randall.

• 19:54Steven Rinella?

  I, I really like this, so.

• 19:56Speaker 06

  Now we have to.

• 19:57Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, let's do it, let's do it. So after the Gunfighters, you were just telling us that you have a new project on your horizon. I'd like to give a little tease of that.

• 20:06Speaker 05

  Well, Gunfighters, you know, I, I was in New York for 30, 35 years. And I, I came back out to Texas where I grew up and I decided to write about gunfighters. And I thought, no, it's the 21st century. I'm writing kind of humorous, if you will, way about gun violence. What could go wrong?

• 20:26Steven Rinella?

  It is a very funny book.

• 20:27Speaker 05

  And then the book comes out and I can't say it became a thing, but let's just say the reception was very generous. And so the publisher turned around to me a week after I turned it in and they said, we love what you did with Gunfighters. We love that you've kept it conversational and fun and accessible for people who maybe don't love thick history books. How would you feel about doing this for pirates?

• 20:48Steven Rinella?

  Yes.

• 20:48Speaker 05

  And I've been, I've read everything about pirates since I was 11, since I discovered them. And by pirates, I don't mean global, all pirates. I mean what we call the golden era of piracy, which is 1650 to 1725. So it's essentially every, every pirate you've ever heard of. Blackbeard, Captain Kidd, Henry Morgan. And I'm telling it in the spirit of the gunfighter, I'm telling it as a single story, set over 75 years with the true stories of a lot of pirates you've heard of and a lot that you haven't. And I mean, it's the most fun you can have with your clothes on doing stuff like this. I mean, they actually pay me to do this. I mean, I'd be reading this stuff anyway.

• 21:32Steven Rinella?

  Oh, yeah.

• 21:32Speaker 05

  And so now all I'm doing is turning around and telling them, you know, in a conversational way is a, is a story.

• 21:40Speaker 05

  And it's just, it's fun. I'm, I'm still stunned 50 years after I started doing this, they, they still pay me to do it.

• 21:46Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, well, I'm, I'm tremendously excited for the pirate, the pirate book. I'm excited for Gunfighters as well.

• 21:52Speaker 05

  The next time I come in, Randall, you'll have to tell me what to call it because all my friends are giving me these awful titles like Arg and, you know, Yamey.

• 22:03Steven Rinella?

  That's good.

• 22:04Speaker 06

  I'm just telling you.

• 22:05Speaker 05

  I've got to come up with something credible and respectful.

• 22:07Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 22:07Speaker 06

  The podcast version of the pirate book with Randall being a pirate voice actor, I think that will be spectacular.

• 22:13Speaker 07

  We've got to figure out how to fit pirates into the four verticals, but I think we can do that.

• 22:16Steven Rinella?

  We can make a case somehow. Well, Brian, we are thrilled to have you join the Meat Eater family here and everybody's enjoying the Gunfighters. And it's great to have you back in the studio. Four-time New York Times bestselling author, Brian Burrow. The Gunfighters, it's out now. Check it out wherever you get your podcasts and check out video on YouTube and Apple Podcasts.

• 22:37Speaker 05

  Thanks for having me.

• 22:37Steven Rinella?

  Thank you, sir.

• 22:38Speaker 05

  It's been a pleasure.

• 22:39Steven Rinella?

  Yanni, it's whitetail, are you ready?

• 22:42Speaker 07

  Yep, ready.

• 22:43Steven Rinella?

  Yanni, it's whitetail week, heat it. Yanni, it's whitetail week here at Meat Eater. Tell us all about that.

• 22:50Speaker 07

  That's right, Randall, whitetail week.

• 22:55Steven Rinella?

  Wow.

• 22:56Speaker 07

  Look at that.

• 22:57Speaker 06

  I'm here for it.

• 22:57Speaker 07

  Well, I did that for Mark, for all you guys, you guys know, most of you know, I think.

• 23:02Speaker 06

  Yeah, because you've been telling everybody.

• 23:03Speaker 07

  I'm now announcing some volleyball games over at Bozeman High School.

• 23:08Speaker 06

  That's awesome.

• 23:08Speaker 07

  And having a great time with it.

• 23:10Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, bring the hype.

• 23:12Speaker 07

  The guy ahead of me, I have extremely big shoes to fill. The guy ahead of me was so good that Montana State University stole him. And he's now, he's now announcing over there. Yeah, so yeah, this guy supposedly like could, could sing the national anthem by himself, like, you know, into the mic in front of a crowd. I'm like, yeah, that part of that toe area of the shoe, I'm not going to fill, but maybe calling the game, I can do well.

• 23:40Speaker 05

  Good retirement plan for you.

• 23:43Speaker 07

  Yeah, it's, it's a lot of fun. I hope, I hope that the kids that I'm announcing for, that they get a kick out of it.

• 23:49Steven Rinella?

  Maybe next year you can announce the fish eater classic.

• 23:51Speaker 07

  Ooh, okay, I could be there for that. All right, September 28th to October 4th is whitetail week here. This is meant to just get everybody fired up for whitetail season, which I am now. Now that I've got the whole month's worth of elk hunting out of the way, I am extremely excited just to go and read some sign and climb into a tree and just sit there and not have to hike up and down 2,000 feet every morning and evening. I got a Kansas hunt coming up with my good buddy and colleague Brett Reeves, which is going to be extremely fun. And I actually, this is an older video of him. This buck is so reliable.

• 24:33Speaker 06

  Pull this up now.

• 24:34Speaker 07

  What's that?

• 24:35Speaker 06

  Do you want me to pull it up right now?

• 24:35Speaker 07

  Yeah, please.

• 24:36Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 24:37Speaker 07

  This buck is so reliable, I think I'm going to have to call him Steady Eddie.

• 24:40Steven Rinella?

  Oh, my goodness.

• 24:42Speaker 06

  He's got, is that a little drop? Yeah, it is.

• 24:44Speaker 07

  No, I think it's.

• 24:45Speaker 06

  Oh, no.

• 24:45Speaker 07

  I think it's velvet.

• 24:48Speaker 06

  I thought there was a little tiny thing sticking off that.

• 24:50Speaker 07

  Very soon after he, he peeled his velvet.

• 24:54Speaker 07

  But this is, like I said, it's an older video, but is the best one where he just like stops, you know, full frame, picks his head up so you can get a real good look at him. But he's almost on like a daily pattern by that camera.

• 25:09Speaker 06

  Well, when you first got this picture, Yanni, you texted me and you said, is this a day one shooter in Kansas?

• 25:14Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 25:15Speaker 06

  And we had a little discussion, but that was, you know, a month ago.

• 25:18Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 25:19Speaker 06

  Where do you stand on it now? Do you think that's still a day one shooter?

• 25:21Speaker 07

  Shooter, yeah, yeah. I have, it can be easy for me to get like too big for my britches sometimes in this sense where I'm like, wow, I'm going to hold out for this and for that. Then I'm thinking like, no, I haven't even killed a buck like close to that caliber. So why on earth would I pass him just because I'm hanging in a tree in Kansas?

• 25:39Speaker 06

  Amen.

• 25:41Steven Rinella?

  You can still sit in the tree for the rest of the trip.

• 25:43Speaker 07

  It's not the same, Randall, you know that.

• 25:47Speaker 07

  The highlights of whitetail week is the ultimate whitetail giveaway, which is headlined by Guided Hunt with Jordan Budd and Mark Canyon. This is something you can't buy, folks. I wish I could win this because after my Wisconsin hunt last year, which just went live on YouTube and I appreciate everybody that's already watched. I'm, I'm just like filled with gratitude that so many people would watch me not kill a deer. But hopefully it was entertaining for you. But after you see that, you'll say, yeah, Yanni needs, could use some help from Mark. And you'd think as a colleague of his, I would get like more, you know, tips and sometimes spent with Mark, you know, becoming a better whitetail deer hunter. So I don't know, maybe I just need to plan a hunt with him.

• 26:32Speaker 06

  You know, I actually invited you to come hunting with me last year.

• 26:35Speaker 07

  I did?

• 26:35Speaker 06

  And you stood me up at the last minute.

• 26:37Speaker 07

  At the last minute?

• 26:37Speaker 06

  Yeah, we had the tailgate tour together. I was like, hey, after the tailgate.

• 26:41Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, you did do that.

• 26:42Speaker 06

  Let's go deer hunting together.

• 26:42Speaker 07

  We were going to go to Michigan.

• 26:43Speaker 06

  Yeah, I was going to take you to my deer camp.

• 26:44Speaker 07

  Oh, instead I went to my deer camp.

• 26:46Speaker 06

  Because you wanted to like spray weeds.

• 26:49Speaker 07

  You are a hundred percent right. I'm sorry about that.

• 26:53Speaker 06

  That's a.

• 26:53Speaker 07

  Work had to get done.

• 26:56Speaker 07

  So yeah, you can win a hunt with Jordan Budd and Mark Canyon on Jordan's place over there in Nebraska. It sounds like an awesome time. On top of that, other prizes included in the giveaway, a Matthews bow, a tethered saddle, a meat, the company meat, M E A T grinder, which also grinds meat. A grill smoker, Sig binoculars, whisper light, sorry, this one is a tongue twister for me. First lights, whisper down. Was there an old product that used to be called whisper light?

• 27:28Speaker 06

  MSR whisper lights.

• 27:28Speaker 07

  Yeah, that's at the stove. I was just using that still. Crispy boots and last, but certainly not least, an Onex membership.

• 27:37Speaker 06

  There's so much stuff.

• 27:38Speaker 07

  Like I said, it's the ultimate giveaway. Keep an eye out on all the Meat Eater channels this week to get you fired up for deer season and head to the Meat Eater store to sign up for the ultimate whitetail giveaway. Mark, you want to add anything to the, to my little promo here?

• 27:54Speaker 06

  I would, I would just say, I, I had to do a bunch of videos about this, so I happen to have all this very top of mind. But more than $23,000 worth of prizes. So you listed a lot of great stuff, but there's just so much more.

• 28:06Steven Rinella?

  I was adding that up in my mind, knowing that I'm ineligible for winning this prize package.

• 28:11Speaker 06

  So it's, it's pretty sweet, but a key thing to remember is that you don't need to buy anything to, to enter. It's free to enter the giveaway. But if you do happen to go on First Light or the Meat Eater store or anything and you need something right now and you purchase, you know, a new jacket or game bags or whatever, you get extra entries into the giveaway this week, like 2X or something significant. So if there was something you needed, this is a good time to do it because you're just going to get that many more opportunities to win all this other free stuff.

• 28:39Steven Rinella?

  Tell me about this hunt.

• 28:41Speaker 06

  So I don't know a whole lot. These kinds of things just kind of come out of nowhere, as you know, Randall. But, but what I do know is that Jordan's got an incredible place there up in the north-ish, northwest-ish part of the state. I love hunting Nebraska. I've hunted out there three or four times for whitetails. Really cool mix of wide open vista, so you can see a lot, but then good thick cover along the river bottoms. So especially, you know, late November, you know, you're going to get a lot of deer cruising, these tight funnels. You're going to see a lot of deer. There should be great activity. I think this is a muzzleloader hunt is what I recall hearing. So you're going to be able to reach out there and touch one if you want. I think it's going to be a lot of fun.

• 29:20Speaker 07

  Yeah, even though that muzzleloader hunt, if it is, is December early in Nebraska. Brody, I think you've hunted that, they're always rutting.

• 29:30Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah, yeah. It's, it's a great, great time to be there. I, I love that season.

• 29:36Speaker 06

  Very excited about it. So yeah, sign up, let's go hunting.

• 29:44Speaker 02

  Please help us. They're everywhere. We think they're murder warrants. 911 Nashville returns.

• 29:51Speaker 06

  There's a homicide detective down here.

• 29:53Speaker 02

  Three bodies on the ground. With emergencies of biblical proportions. I will send swarms upon you and upon your people.

• 30:00Speaker 06

  That's one of the plagues of the Bible.

• 30:01Speaker 02

  And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville. Brian Phillippe joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu. Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds, up to $200,000, right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval. Breathe in and reset with Lincoln Rejuvenate, an available multi-sensory feature

• 30:46Speaker 02

  in the 2027 Lincoln Navigator SUV. Experience the luxurious massage, visuals, and scents to help you relax in the driver's seat. It's your time for a reset. Visit lincoln.com to learn more. Lincoln Rejuvenate does not operate unless the vehicle is in park. When the vehicle is off or if any doors open, do not use the feature in a closed garage or in other enclosed areas. See owner's manual for important operating instructions. Lincoln and Navigator are trademarks of Ford or its affiliates. All rights reserved.

• 31:12Steven Rinella?

  Now on to your news.

• 31:17Speaker 05

  Still sticking with that one, huh, Phil?

• 31:19Speaker 07

  Yeah, Steve's gone. And honestly, I'm kind of just kidding. I'm kind of planting my feet now.

• 31:23Steven Rinella?

  It's not really.

• 31:24Speaker 05

  I like it, Phil. I like it.

• 31:25Steven Rinella?

  Thanks.

• 31:25Speaker 07

  I don't know. Was that a pigeon?

• 31:27Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, I think so.

• 31:28Speaker 07

  Yeah, it was a pigeon delivering a piece of mail, you know?

• 31:30Steven Rinella?

  I get it.

• 31:31Speaker 07

  As pigeons do.

• 31:33Steven Rinella?

  It's not really a hitter.

• 31:34Speaker 07

  It doesn't hit hard like when Phil sings.

• 31:37Steven Rinella?

  It makes me, it makes me think that I'm going out to my chicken pen to chase the pigeons away.

• 31:42Speaker 07

  I didn't say this last week when Steve was bitching about it, but after months of radio live and my drops getting progressively more involved and frankly obnoxious, for the news show, I wanted them to just like be in and out, quick hitters that don't distract from what we're doing here. And this pigeon drop has sparked more distraction and side conversation than any of my radio live drops have. So I think I just made a grave miscalculation.

• 32:09Speaker 05

  Stand your ground, Phil.

• 32:11Steven Rinella?

  We'll get, we'll get used to it, Phil.

• 32:12Speaker 07

  Okay.

• 32:13Steven Rinella?

  Since it's whitetail week, we've got a couple of stories from our listeners about, you guessed it, the most popular game animal in the whole damn country, the whitetail deer. First, we've got Brody with an email about a huge buck out of Minnesota.

• 32:27Speaker 05

  This is a wonderful story.

• 32:28Steven Rinella?

  This is great. This is great.

• 32:31Speaker 05

  Pull up that first picture, Phil, so people can gawk at that thing while I'm reading.

• 32:35Steven Rinella?

  Do you want to tell me now what makes this story wonderful or after you tell us about it?

• 32:39Speaker 05

  After I tell you. Like, I just think it's a great story. The email's great. This is from Max in Minnesota.

• 32:48Speaker 05

  We got this email on September 21st. "I shot this buck yesterday evening at 20 yards, just 30 minutes from Minneapolis. With an hour and a half of shooting light left, I climbed into the stand and saw this buck at 7:30. Made a perfect shot and he didn't go more than 60 yards. When I walked up and finally saw him on the ground, my excitement faded and panic started engulfing my mind because I didn't know how I was going to move it by myself. I could only drag it five feet at a time when I typically can get 20 to 30 yards pulling the buck by the antler. I assumed it was somehow a loss of strength due to aging or something dumb like that." Like, I feel you.

• 33:30Speaker 05

  "I wrestled the buck into the tractor after gutting it and got it on ice. My good buddies stopped by to help me today and we truly didn't know how big it was until two of us couldn't lift it off the ground using a pulley and rope. With its butt still touching the ground, we saw 260 on the scale and we knew we were in different territory. After hooking up the rope to the tractor and lifting it that way, it hit 329.48 and that's what the tenderloins cut out. The photo of the buck with the tractor, there it is, is the best way to see the size. The antlers look small in the tractor photo because of the enormous body size. I truly wish I took a picture of the rope swing we made to get this thing off the ground

• 34:13Speaker 05

  because it obviously looks sketchy just showing a picture of the scale." Got that, that picture, Phil? "But I do have witnesses that would vouch for every detail. It's an unbelievable animal and I'm beyond lucky to see something like this." I mean, how can you not like that story, Yannis? It's just a great story.

• 34:30Steven Rinella?

  What's your favorite part of this, Yannis? I have my notes.

• 34:36Speaker 07

  About the story itself?

• 34:38Steven Rinella?

  Everything, whatever.

• 34:39Speaker 07

  I mean, it's interesting. I mean, it's a giant bodied deer. That's interesting to me.

• 34:48Speaker 07

  I don't know. Otherwise, I was kind of like, oh, okay, you shot a really big, heavy buck.

• 34:53Steven Rinella?

  I mean, that is really, really big. I thought you had something you were excited about.

• 34:57Speaker 06

  I almost can't. I have a hard time believing it. Not that I question his validity, but that's just unbelievable. 329 gutted and without the tenderloins? That's insane. I mean, a really big buck is 200 pounds.

• 35:10Speaker 05

  I believe every word.

• 35:11Speaker 06

  I believe it. Not saying I don't believe it, but it's just wild.

• 35:14Steven Rinella?

  Oh, it's crazy. One thing I love is the photo with the tractor. Phil, if you'll indulge me, the blood and the John Deere green and the grass.

• 35:24Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah.

• 35:25Steven Rinella?

  It's just a very striking, striking image.

• 35:28Speaker 05

  That bright red lung blood there?

• 35:30Steven Rinella?

  Yep. Where's the red?

• 35:33Speaker 05

  That's right. Mark's like colorblind. Is that thing just sleeping there?

• 35:38Speaker 06

  I'm not really colorblind.

• 35:40Steven Rinella?

  The blood, the blood is where it should be, Mark. I'll just say the blood is where it should be.

• 35:43Speaker 06

  I can see that red.

• 35:44Steven Rinella?

  My second favorite part of this is anytime I'm picking up here, it was 329.48 and with its butt still touching the ground, they got 260 on the scale. So that's what, like 70 pounds? I'm feeling like I need to start weighing myself with my butt still touching the ground. There's all sorts of great secrets. And I also like the idea of you can't trust a scale without a picture of the full context. Maybe I'll just start weighing myself and snapping photos.

• 36:13Speaker 05

  There you go.

• 36:13Speaker 07

  Sure. Just one foot on the scale.

• 36:15Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, this is fabulous. This is fabulous. I like that this guy wrote in to just tell us about a heavy ass deer.

• 36:20Speaker 05

  Yeah, it's a great whitetail week story. Great job, Max. Another whitetail, whitetail email for Yannis and Mark will probably jump in here too. You want to go ahead and read that, Yannis?

• 36:32Speaker 07

  Yeah, sure. Ben Gils wrote in, "Good morning. I have a correction for the news show, episode 926. At the opening of the show, Yannis was talking about clearing buckthorn. Steve then stated that nothing wants to eat it and the others agreed. This is not true. Both deer and rabbits eat the bark and shoots of buckthorn. I came about this knowledge while pheasant hunting in central Minnesota late in the season during a hard winter. I found a bunch of spots in the snow that looked like someone spilled blue Gatorade, but there was rabbit and deer shit in the same spots. So after some research, it turns out that the bark of buckthorn contains a phytochemical called emodin. The emodin ends up in the urine and turns blue when hit by and or,

• 37:18Speaker 07

  I didn't quite understand that, sunlight, but let's just say when it's hit by sunlight, it turns blue. While it isn't a preferred food source, buckthorn absolutely gets eaten by both deer and rabbits in the winter when other food sources are scarce."

• 37:33Steven Rinella?

  I think that was a trivia question at some point.

• 37:36Speaker 05

  Really?

• 37:36Steven Rinella?

  What color is the urine of an animal that's been eating buckthorn?

• 37:39Speaker 05

  I must not have been in that episode.

• 37:41Speaker 06

  Question.

• 37:41Speaker 07

  I do remember something.

• 37:43Steven Rinella?

  I got it wrong.

• 37:44Speaker 07

  Something about this. And sure enough, Brody, did you editorialize that and write, "Sure as shit, he's right. Here's a picture to prove it."

• 37:53Speaker 06

  Who found the picture? Where'd you find that?

• 37:54Speaker 05

  Just looked it up online. There's a bunch of them.

• 37:57Steven Rinella?

  It does look like blue Gatorade.

• 38:00Speaker 06

  What's crazy is I have hunted around buckthorns so much in my life. I've never once seen blue piss.

• 38:07Speaker 07

  Well, here's the deal. I think like, if he's correcting us on saying that nothing eats it? Yes. But I think we were saying like, nothing wants to eat it. I think we are also correct in saying that.

• 38:22Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, like vegetables.

• 38:23Speaker 07

  Like, it's not quite like kids not, kids or Randall not wanting to eat vegetables. But I texted Matt Ross from the NDA. He said, "Generally, anything with glossy leaves has low palatability ratings for deer. The glossy surface is a defense mechanism against herbivores, among other things, causing low digestibility." Doesn't mean they won't eat it. If it's all there is, they will. For example, rhododendrons have glossy leaves and can be hammered, especially in the winter. Buckthorn forest nutrition value is fairly poor too. One of the reasons it outcompetes native regen,

• 39:03Speaker 07

  like when you're trying to regenerate native plants, is because it's not selected as a browse. So I think for us, like when we're just like generally saying that like, nothing wants to eat it, there's, it's got very low wildlife value, I feel like that's a true statement. And I'm going to stick by that. I'm going to continue killing it because it is the scourge of the, of the, you know, Midwest and other areas. And it's like, sure, in extreme scenarios, where there's nothing else left because, you know, because there's too much buckthorn and nothing else can live, yeah, the animals are like, well, I have to eat this. And my piss is going to turn blue, dang it.

• 39:44Speaker 06

  Yeah, on the, on the Back 40 project we did back in the day, I don't know if you recall that from our squirrel hunting adventures, Yannis?

• 39:50Speaker 07

  Oh, yeah.

• 39:51Speaker 06

  But that was one of the major issues on that property was just rampant buckthorn. And so multiple wildlife habitat specialists that came out to look at that place with me, that was one of the first things that says, you got to get rid of that. Very low wildlife value, very aggressive. And yeah, so interesting to point out, but I think, like you said, generally what you, what you mentioned holds true.

• 40:15Speaker 07

  Yeah. Were you able to, to get a handle on it?

• 40:18Speaker 06

  Definitely not entirely. We tackled pockets of it.

• 40:22Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 40:22Speaker 06

  I think if we still had that property, it'd be a project we would still be doing today. And I actually think that the National Deer Association, which took it over, they have continued to do that work in the years since.

• 40:33Speaker 07

  Yeah. I'm actually now embarking on a project with the NRCS and they're going to help me with my glossy buckthorn because it's going to be years of work.

• 40:43Speaker 06

  It's nice to have the help.

• 40:45Steven Rinella?

  And then you'll never see any more blue raspberry snow cones on the ground.

• 40:50Speaker 07

  Yeah, I mean, as cool as that is, I'm hoping to never see blue, blue piss.

• 40:54Speaker 05

  They need to rename that plant. Like buckthorn's not a good name for it.

• 40:58Speaker 07

  No, it's, yeah, somehow.

• 41:02Speaker 07

  Just blue piss.

• 41:03Speaker 06

  I'd be interested in the story of how it got that name.

• 41:07Speaker 06

  You know?

• 41:07Speaker 07

  I believe because there's um something segments uh in into like like it splits and it makes it looks like a like a buck horns. I can't remember if it's the way that the leaf splits or or something on it splits and makes it look like a little buck thorn on it.

• 41:25Steven Rinella?

  That's that'll lead to another correction.

• 41:28Speaker 07

  Probably.

• 41:29Speaker 06

  Future episode.

• 41:29Steven Rinella?

  Thank you, Ben. Now on to the news.

• 41:37Speaker 07

  Hmm. Do we have time for Phil to explain that sound bit? It's it's been done before. The audience has heard it. I'll talk to you after the show. Okay, thanks, Phil.

• 41:46Steven Rinella?

  I'm first up here. Uh, this is just a quick story, but this was first reported in the Juneau Empire by Jeffrey Kennett. Um, there is a woman Janet E. Lopez uh who was charged in Juneau District Court last week, I believe, with three counts of obstructing or hindering lawful hunting. Uh, the incident in question happened on June 18th along Glacier Highway. Uh, none of this has been proven in court yet, so these are all allegations, but according to court documents, there are three archery hunters about 300 yards off the road. They're making a stalk on a black bear uh when when Ms. Lopez stopped to ask them what was going on. They told her they were bear hunting, and so she drove up and down the road honking her horn, eventually spooking the bear off. Uh,

• 42:30Steven Rinella?

  those guys ended up calling it a day because she kept honking her horn. Um, and eventually the the state troopers looked into it or wildlife troopers looked into it and um she told them she likes to watch the local bears and has even named them. Um, so you know, if she has that relationship, understandable that she would not want to see one killed by the roadside. Um, she was charged with three counts of obstructing or hindering lawful hunting, one charge for each of the three hunters whose hunts were impacted by her actions.

• 43:01Speaker 06

  Wow.

• 43:01Steven Rinella?

  So um always always nice to see the process and the law working.

• 43:06Speaker 07

  Sometimes it goes the way of the you know, way of the hunter. Well, I think it's good to know here is that most everybody listening to this.

• 43:13Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 43:13Speaker 07

  It is not going to be going, oh, I better not honk at wildlife when there's hunters.

• 43:18Steven Rinella?

  Right.

• 43:19Speaker 07

  Around trying to spook the game. But it's good to know if something like this happens that you know, you have a lot of of of power and it's your right to be hunting and that you should engage with, you know, local law enforcement, game ward, whoever, and and report this kind of behavior because it is completely illegal in all states. You cannot you can't you cannot harass hunters. Um, I the the thing that struck me most about this whole story is if there's one place in the United States where you would think you would probably not have to deal with hunter harassment, it would be Alaska. I mean, every like, you know, everybody's putting some kind of game meat

• 44:02Speaker 07

  in their freezer or fish in their freezer, whatever. It's just it's just weird, but you know?

• 44:07Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, my reaction to this story was I wish we had more laws like this. Pretending to watching things on phones without headphones.

• 44:17Speaker 06

  Hmm.

• 44:18Steven Rinella?

  Uh, having phone calls on speakerphone.

• 44:21Speaker 07

  Amen.

• 44:22Steven Rinella?

  Uh, behavior in movie theaters. Just why don't we just have general laws interfering with my daily uh that's a joke, by the way. I'm not a big big gov guy.

• 44:34Speaker 07

  Big gov overreach guy?

• 44:36Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 44:36Speaker 06

  I I had something somewhat similar to this happen to me.

• 44:40Speaker 07

  Really?

• 44:41Speaker 06

  Yeah. When I was like 16, 15, 16, uh, I bow hunted behind my parents' house where we lived. We had three and a half acres of land and I would go and and bow hunt for whitetails in the mornings and evenings after school. And on one particular day, I got back from the hunt and my sister said, you see anything? I said, nope. She's like, yes, because I went down there and have been spraying perfume. She didn't want me shooting deer and so unbeknownst to me, she was going and spraying perfume throughout my hunting grounds.

• 45:16Steven Rinella?

  I hope you called her in.

• 45:17Speaker 07

  I don't think I knew you had a sister until just now.

• 45:19Speaker 06

  No?

• 45:19Speaker 07

  No.

• 45:20Speaker 06

  Yeah, I've got a sister.

• 45:21Steven Rinella?

  It's because she screwed up his whitetail hunts.

• 45:23Speaker 07

  Does she not hunt? She doesn't talk to her anymore because he called the game ward.

• 45:26Speaker 06

  Never never once since.

• 45:28Speaker 07

  She's in jail.

• 45:32Speaker 06

  She does not hunt.

• 45:33Steven Rinella?

  Oh, yeah. Can't say that I've uh that I've run into anything like that.

• 45:37Speaker 07

  Yeah, I can't. I don't think I've had any kind of hunter harassment. I mean, other than not hunting and then saying that I'm a hunter and then being harassed a little bit, but.

• 45:48Steven Rinella?

  You know, when I was when I was flying to Austria, didn't talk to the people next to me on the plane until we were had landed and were pulling our shit out of the overhead bins, you know?

• 45:58Speaker 06

  Mm hmm.

• 45:58Steven Rinella?

  And then then all of a sudden they became interested and talked to me. Um, I was in the same mindset that I had maintained throughout the flight, but she was like asking me what I was doing and for whatever reason, I actually didn't lie. I said, yeah, I'm here. I'm visiting friends and I'm hunting. And I told them all about it and she goes, well, that all sounds fantastic, except for the hunting part.

• 46:19Speaker 06

  Mm hmm.

• 46:20Steven Rinella?

  And then I just shrunk back down into my seat. I thought, why didn't I just lie to her? You know, in any event.

• 46:26Speaker 06

  That sometimes does lead to great conversations, though.

• 46:28Steven Rinella?

  Sometimes, sometimes.

• 46:30Speaker 07

  Yeah, if you had more time, had you guys struck it up mid-flight at midnight, you know, and you both had to get up to go pee or something, then by the time you landed, she might have been pro hunting.

• 46:40Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, that's true. Missed opportunity. One more regret that I'll carry with me.

• 46:45Speaker 07

  Yanni, tell me about this bear spray. Government overreach, Randall. Uh, there was a proposal that the Montana Fish and Wildlife Commission rejected that would have required hunters and trappers to carry bear spray in bear country. Um, proponents, including bear ecologist Mike Bader, argued the mandate would improve public safety and reduce defensive grizzly bear deaths, noting 30 grizzly deaths and 251 conflicts this year. Uh, opponents and commissioners criticize the proposal's unnecessary government mandate, noted that existing public education and training efforts are already effective. Um, critics also argued the petition unfairly targeted hunters and

• 47:27Speaker 07

  trappers while ignored other public land users. Um, and despite the rejection, organizers plan to continue advocating for the bear spray requirements to enhance the safety. Uh, who's got thoughts on that one? The I the the I think the main point is unfairly targeting hunters and trappers. Um, to me, that's that's that's the big thing.

• 47:50Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, and I don't know that um this year's 30 grizzly deaths and 251 total conflicts have to do with uh.

• 47:59Speaker 07

  No.

• 48:00Steven Rinella?

  Encounters on the on the trail or in the woods. It's the bears do not have a lot to eat right now and there's a lot of bears getting into town and garbage.

• 48:09Speaker 07

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 48:10Steven Rinella?

  But yeah, I mean, I I also just think any sort of mandatory, like you have to carry bear spray, uh, like.

• 48:18Speaker 07

  Well, tell me what tell me what you you don't archery hunt, but what do you do during?

• 48:23Steven Rinella?

  I carry I carry bear spray and a handgun.

• 48:25Speaker 07

  Okay, what do you do? Both?

• 48:28Speaker 06

  Uh, both if I were.

• 48:29Steven Rinella?

  Well, if you're gonna make if you're worried about like a hunter and archery hunter encountering a grizzly and then turning to his sidearm instead of his bear spray, if you make him carry bear spray, he's still gonna go to the side, right? Like, they have to be willing, people have to be educated and willing participants in something like that for it to work. So just strapping a can on your chest isn't gonna change outcomes on the ground.

• 48:53Speaker 07

  No, not at all. And and yeah, the like, if they're gonna do this, it's like, sure, anybody that goes out on the public lands.

• 49:00Steven Rinella?

  Right.

• 49:01Speaker 07

  During grizzly bear season should be carrying bear spray.

• 49:05Steven Rinella?

  Right.

• 49:05Speaker 07

  And how how would you even begin to police? Oh, yeah. You know? It's yeah. No, it's like, it's a bummer to even have to kind of think this, but you can't help to be like, oh, are they like a little bit trying to be anti-hunting here?

• 49:21Speaker 06

  Mm hmm. Well, they might not even be trying to be anti-hunting, but they might have anti-hunter bias, right?

• 49:27Speaker 07

  Right.

• 49:27Speaker 06

  So they're looking at what's going on. They're saying, well, it's the hunters who are who are doing this and causing these problems because they're unnecessarily creating conflict, being out there doing their thing.

• 49:36Speaker 07

  Sure, it's hunters like. Killing grizzly bears without actually killing grizzly bear, you know what I mean?

• 49:41Speaker 06

  Yeah, but I mean, to Randall's point, you know, in Montana up here, something like 50, 60 grizzlies get killed every year and most are not hunter conflict. Most are, you know, wildlife service.

• 49:52Speaker 07

  Chicken coops and garbage, whatever.

• 49:54Speaker 06

  Cars, the whole nine yards.

• 49:56Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, better time and resources would be better spent addressing those sorts of conflicts.

• 50:01Speaker 06

  Yeah, I mean, education, right? I mean, there's a good amount of that, but certainly let's spend the money on more of that.

• 50:07Speaker 07

  Yeah, or they could spend this time and effort to squash this idea coming out of Washington DC.

• 50:14Steven Rinella?

  Man, I had, I had a better one.

• 50:16Speaker 07

  Oh, okay. Let's try it again.

• 50:18Speaker 06

  Yeah. What do you got, Randall?

• 50:20Steven Rinella?

  I've sort of lost my wheels. They were, I was gonna say, speaking of misguided something, something, something, but we're already past it.

• 50:27Speaker 07

  Oh, that was, that was really good.

• 50:28Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 50:30Speaker 07

  Bravo. Nice try, Randall.

• 50:32Speaker 06

  So one of the craziest stories of a several year period of pretty crazy public land related stories. I saw this come across my news feed this past weekend. Saturday, the Washington Post reported that the Major League Baseball League contacted the Trump administration about hosting an MLB game at a national park. And then, as recently as just this past week, an agency official was at Grand Teton National Park, scouting it for possible locations to build a baseball venue of some kind to possibly host a park or host a game. So according to this article, National Park Service Deputy Director Frank Lands

• 51:13Speaker 06

  visited the park in recent days and looked at three different possible locations for a baseball park within the park's boundaries. And, and the idea here, at least from the MLB, is that they're trying to have more of these kind of themed, special games and special locations.

• 51:27Steven Rinella?

  I'm all for that.

• 51:28Speaker 07

  The Field of Dreams Park.

• 51:30Speaker 06

  The Field of Dreams won in Iowa.

• 51:31Speaker 07

  Which was supposed to be temporary, but then they made it a permanent.

• 51:35Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, I was a big fan of the college basketball games on the aircraft carriers.

• 51:39Speaker 06

  Michigan State did that.

• 51:40Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, North Carolina, Michigan State.

• 51:42Speaker 06

  That was the game.

• 51:43Speaker 07

  Do you know what's way cheaper is like bobbleheads of anime characters? That's, that's, that's the theming I can give.

• 51:49Steven Rinella?

  Not really a draw there, Phil.

• 51:51Speaker 07

  Dang. Okay, yeah, maybe in your world.

• 51:53Speaker 06

  So, so yeah, this news dropped on Saturday. In the subsequent days, there's been all kinds of outcry from, you know, national parks advocates, conservationists, tourists there in the park. A number of journalists went in the park and asked people that were hiking, you know, the Jenny Lake Trail or different things about that. Um, of course, my first gut reaction was this seems just, I don't know, abhorrent to consider like just this absolutely stunning natural landscape. The, the Tetons are just one of the most incredible vistas we have in our national park system. And then to, to put a baseball stadium there would just be like building a, a baseball stadium in a cathedral, something like that.

• 52:37Speaker 06

  Um, so when I first saw that.

• 52:40Steven Rinella?

  Be cool.

• 52:41Speaker 06

  I wanted to throw up in my mouth. I do want to fact check a little here though, because we all saw this pop up on social media. We, we saw these articles. And it must be noted that the White House issued a statement that clarifies at least their position on this, which is that, you know, they confirmed that the MLB did send a request asking about this possibility. But it did say that this, this is not a presidential directive, nor is it being directed by the White House. It's also not being driven by the Department of the Interior. Uh, therefore this is not a White House or administration priority. Um, they clarified that there have been no decisions made. The Park Service has not granted any permits. Uh, and that if the MLB wants to go on site visits of national parks, that's their prerogative.

• 53:27Speaker 06

  Uh, but they are denying that there has been any active scouting done by the administration itself. So.

• 53:32Steven Rinella?

  But there is this deputy director who has gone and visited three sites at Grand Teton.

• 53:39Speaker 06

  Supposedly in like their statement, this is like, it was coincidence that he was there visiting these places at the same time.

• 53:46Steven Rinella?

  I, yeah, I mean, I think what's, what's, what's not said in that statement is the most glaring part of it. They're saying, we didn't come up with this idea. The White House isn't pushing this idea. The interior isn't pushing this idea and it's not a priority for us. They didn't say this will not happen.

• 54:05Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 54:05Steven Rinella?

  In, in a, in a sane world, whoever MLB reached out to about this idea would have shut it down at this point and said, I'll save you the embarrassment. Like, I'm not going to bring this to my superiors, but obviously they are not at the point yet where they can say this is, uh, out of the question.

• 54:23Speaker 07

  There are plenty of places they could build a stadium.

• 54:26Steven Rinella?

  Oh.

• 54:27Speaker 07

  It doesn't need to be in Grand Teton National Park. Especially in that valley. If you wanted those views, there's, there's plenty of flat ranches.

• 54:36Steven Rinella?

  Sure.

• 54:37Speaker 07

  Where the building would probably be easier and you'd still have the view of the Teton. Yeah.

• 54:41Steven Rinella?

  And.

• 54:41Speaker 06

  Let's not, let's not give too many ideas.

• 54:43Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, be honest.

• 54:44Speaker 07

  Um, the, the thing that strikes me is, and look, man, like I'm a, I'm a baseball fan, like my kid plays baseball. We, three weeks ago, we were in Seattle and went and saw two games. Um, I feel like the MLB should like read the room a little bit better and like the amount of money that would be spent to build this stadium, like what else could they do with that money? They could, I don't know, donate it to like youth baseball programs around the country.

• 55:14Steven Rinella?

  Improve our, our talent funnel for US born players.

• 55:18Speaker 07

  Um, anyway.

• 55:20Speaker 06

  Can you imagine the blowback the MLB would get if something like this went through in a national park setting like that? I mean, it would just be awful.

• 55:27Steven Rinella?

  I also just think it speaks to like the, the, the gulf in this country between people who get the public lands issue and people who don't.

• 55:37Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 55:37Steven Rinella?

  Um, and also, you know, misconceptions about what the national parks are.

• 55:44Speaker 07

  Yeah, it's like.

• 55:44Steven Rinella?

  Right? Like they're not, like they're sure there are, there are national parks that are like a parking lot and you go up and you look at something and it's like a historic site or whatever, but that is not Grand Teton.

• 55:54Speaker 07

  No, and, and that, like the throwaway culture idea of this, like we're going to have a game in a national park. It's like, you're going to build a stadium for one game. And yes, maybe they'd come back for additional games, but it's just like, use your head.

• 56:11Steven Rinella?

  Do it on the moon.

• 56:12Speaker 07

  Yeah, yeah.

• 56:14Steven Rinella?

  That would be something spectacular. Phil, are you in on moon ball?

• 56:17Speaker 07

  Think how far that ball would go. You could hit a home run from the moon to the earth.

• 56:21Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, we won't even have to do steroids anymore. It'll still be exciting to watch. It'll be better than the McGuire Sosa glory days.

• 56:28Speaker 06

  We're solving all the world's problems right here, folks.

• 56:31Speaker 07

  Well, keep us updated on that, Mark.

• 56:33Speaker 06

  Yeah, we'll do. Hopefully there's, hopefully no more updates. Hopefully this thing dies.

• 56:36Steven Rinella?

  I know. I hope it dies with a whimper and we just never hear anything about it again.

• 56:39Speaker 06

  Yeah, fingers crossed.

• 56:40Steven Rinella?

  It's wild. With that, we are on to Steve's interview with Iowa gubernatorial candidate Rob Sand about a big wet buck. Thanks for listening, folks. We'll see you next week.

• 56:57Steven Rinella?

  911, what's your emergency?

• 57:00Speaker 02

  Please help us. They're everywhere. We think they're murder hornets. 911 Nashville returns. There's a homicide detective down here. Three bodies on the ground. With emergencies of biblical proportions.

• 57:13Speaker 03

  I'll send swarms upon you and upon your people. That's one of the plagues for Bible. And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville.

• 57:20Speaker 02

  Brian Phillippe joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu. Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds up to $200,000 right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval. Breathe in and reset with Lincoln Rejuvenate. An available multi-sensory feature in the 2027 Lincoln Navigator SUV.

• 58:05Speaker 02

  Experience the luxurious massage, visuals, and sense to help you relax in the driver's seat. It's your time for a reset. Visit lincoln.com to learn more. Lincoln Rejuvenate does not operate unless the vehicle is in park. When the vehicle is off or if any doors open, do not use the feature in a closed garage or in other enclosed areas. See owner's manual for important operating instructions. Lincoln and Navigator trademarks of Ford or its affiliates. All rights reserved.

• 58:28Steven Rinella?

  Okay, I'm on right now with Rob Sand. Now, if you're in Iowa, you know exactly who Rob Sand is. If you're outside of Iowa and you're thinking to yourself, why do I know that name? You might remember him because he's a, he's a, he's many things, but one of those many things is Iowa's state auditor. But the most important thing about Rob Sand from my perspective is that he's probably the only, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say he is the only suburban archery deer hunter running for governor right now. I mean, I'm not like an expert on the subject, but I would have heard if there were more. Um, and yeah, Rob Sand is Iowa State Auditor.

• 59:12Steven Rinella?

  Running for governor in Iowa.

• 59:14Speaker 07

  Even if you hadn't heard, even if you hadn't heard, I bet I would have heard.

• 59:17Steven Rinella?

  You would have heard because someone would have said to you, hey, man, you know how like you're running for governor and you're a suburban deer hunter? Well, Bill.

• 59:24Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 59:25Steven Rinella?

  Over in, Bill over in whatever state. He is too. Uh, on episode 809, Rob came on. I've been reading about Rob, um, in the newspapers. And when I, when I would read about Rob Sand, the newspapers, it would often include his, his love of the hunt. So I took an interest in him. He came on episode 809. And he told, he told a great story about a deer called the 209. Guess how big that deer was? Um, and, and how he got it through like a suburban hunting program. And in the end of the episode, he shared with me that he was trying to, he was fixing to get it shoulder mounted in a way where it would look like it was wet because he was wet when he got it.

• 1:00:08Steven Rinella?

  And I thought this was the worst idea in the world. Phil, can you pull up the mount? Phil's gonna pull up an image of the mount. Um,

• 1:00:21Speaker 07

  As you can see, I did not do that.

• 1:00:23Steven Rinella?

  Are you happy with it?

• 1:00:24Speaker 07

  It looks great. I, I'm, I'm so happy with it. It looks great. I did not make it look wet. It was, it was wet is three wet things uh when I shot it, but it looks great just the way it is.

• 1:00:36Steven Rinella?

  Because I

• 1:00:37Speaker 07

  And you know, these days, you like, you know, if somebody wants to hear the story, they can listen to a podcast on it. It's not like they need to look at it and be like, oh, it must have been raining out.

• 1:00:45Steven Rinella?

  But what I was suggesting to you is that when you wanted it to look wet, just take a wet rag and wet it up a little bit.

• 1:00:54Steven Rinella?

  You can tell.

• 1:00:54Speaker 07

  I had a guy. I had a guy reach out on Instagram and he had, he's, he had, he sent me some kind of a beeswax product.

• 1:01:03Steven Rinella?

  Oh.

• 1:01:04Speaker 07

  Where he was, he was kinda, he was kinda like, I've done this before. It looks cool. Here's what it looks like. And I gotta be honest. Like the antlers that he, cause he'll, he's a shed, he was a shed hunter. And so he would, he had this beeswax product that he would put on the sheds to make them look kinda wet.

• 1:01:20Steven Rinella?

  Oh.

• 1:01:21Speaker 07

  I really couldn't tell the difference. Yeah, I really couldn't really, I couldn't tell much of the difference. I mean, if you're looking at this picture of this mount right now.

• 1:01:28Steven Rinella?

  Oh.

• 1:01:29Speaker 07

  You're seeing, you know, some, some shiny bone that might, might maybe could be wet, but I'd kinda at the end of the day was like, you know. And I don't think it's gonna look that much different. And one thing I know is it looks good if I do it the way I always do it. I don't wanna screw it up. So.

• 1:01:44Steven Rinella?

  So I got into your head, you're saying, and you did what, you took my instructions and did not make them.

• 1:01:48Speaker 07

  I like people. I welcome people in. I like, I like hearing other people's opinions. That's part of this entire campaign for governors. Maybe we should all work together.

• 1:01:57Steven Rinella?

  So uh where is the two oh nine? I wanna talk about this campaign deal and what that's all like. Where's the two oh nine hanging?

• 1:02:03Speaker 07

  Uh if anybody wants to come to what I like to call the public sector Cabela's, that's room one eleven of the Iowa Capitol building. It is in the state auditor's office right there. If you are an Iowan, you can come. If you're not an Iowan, but you happen to be in Des Moines, you can come, you can check it out. It's in there with the other mounts that I've taken with my bow over the years. Uh a buffalo. Uh three bucks that measure between, no, sorry, four bucks that measure between one fifty-three and one fifty-nine.

• 1:02:32Steven Rinella?

  Go.

• 1:02:32Speaker 07

  And then a few assorted smaller ones that are all at least one twenty-five.

• 1:02:37Steven Rinella?

  And then the man, and then the man, the two oh nine.

• 1:02:40Speaker 07

  And the big boy, you know, that's right.

• 1:02:42Steven Rinella?

  So when you, when you came on the show, you were, you were in a position, um, and like I said, I got introduced to you cause people would send me articles about you and it would point out that I knew, you know, you were a state auditor and you were politically involved, but it would be articles. And these people that wrote these articles would always, it'd be like urban journalists. And they would write about this Rob Sand character. And it's like, you're like, that you had like, your family had, you know, you had like agricultural connections from working jobs and you were a kid. You were a hunter. And so people would be like, oh, I bet Steve would like this guy. And um, and I had you on and I did. And at the time, you, you hadn't gone through your primary yet.

• 1:03:24Steven Rinella?

  So hu- walk, walk us through how that all went and where, where things stand right now, because I keep reading about you still. And people like your, your campaign is working.

• 1:03:35Speaker 07

  Yeah, you know, uh we didn't end up having a primary on the ballot. There was a gal that was running. Who had said, you know, I'm, I'm running too. And uh she didn't end up getting on the ballot. And so it was just me.

• 1:03:47Steven Rinella?

  You were the only name on there.

• 1:03:50Speaker 07

  Only name up, eh, I think, yeah, it was the only name on there. Yeah, yeah.

• 1:03:53Steven Rinella?

  Okay.

• 1:03:54Speaker 07

  Uh and then campaign. Yeah, well, it wasn't, it wasn't really a contest, you know, in the, at the end of the day. Um, and then the campaign, you know, I, a big piece of it to me is I, I always go everywhere and I talk to everybody. And so we, we did a hundred public town halls last year. We had finished them by the time I talked to you. Uh, we're like ninety, we, we have like number ninety-four tonight. Uh, we're taping this on a Monday. We got one in, in Ames tonight. Uh, so we got like six more of those. We'll do plenty of other events, but, but uh. Steve, when we do these events, we have people come into the room, raise their hand for what party they're in and, and ask them to applaud their neighbors that are in the other political parties.

• 1:04:37Speaker 07

  And we ask them to sing America the Beautiful together to prove that Democrats and Republicans can work together. And when we get to the Q and A part, um, I always make a point of handing the microphone to somebody who raised their hand to say they're a Republican. To be clear, I'm a Democrat. Um, and so by, by handing the microphone to somebody who said they were a Republican, I can, I can demonstrate with my work, my actions, not just my words. How serious I am about the idea that we should work together. And sometimes they're like, I didn't really bring any questions. And other times they asked me, you know, maybe something of a gotcha question. Uh, they were there as someone who's a little antagonistic. That's okay. But the, the point of this to me is to be like, this is real democracy. Like we should be getting in the same room.

• 1:05:21Speaker 07

  We should be talking to each other. We should be focusing on the areas we agree. And what I've been saying lately is left wing, right wing, same bird. You know, like we just, we know that it makes more sense to work together. We know that no one has a monopoly on good ideas. And if you're willing to work with each other, then every once in a while you say, okay, broken clock is right twice a day. You have a fair point. Let's add what you're doing to what we wanna do and do something we all think is gonna do better than what we're doing right now. That's just common sense stuff. And I think people are hungry for common sense these days.

• 1:05:54Steven Rinella?

  You know, you uh, so you're, you're running for this office uh as a outspoken outdoorsman. You don't shy away from being an outdoorsman. You don't view it like a, you don't, you don't view it like being a deficit or something you ought to hide for fear that people are gonna disapprove. Um, and I think part of, part, part of that, because you're so open about what your interests are. A part of your campaign is, is, is wetlands, can, wetlands, conditions, the conditions of wetlands in Iowa. Tell me about that.

• 1:06:20Speaker 07

  Yeah. So, so Iowa's got a water quality crisis uh tied to that, connected to that is the fact that we're last year, number one, this year, number two in cancer growth. Uh, like we have too much nitrate in our water. We've got other issues in our water. And we also are, we're forty-ninth for public land, Steve, forty-ninth. And that does, I had a guy ask me once, yeah. So I looked it up. I had a guy ask me, he's like, he's like, is that include state, local and federal? And I said, good question. I looked it up. Yes, it does. We have almost the least public land of any state. And think about this for a second. We got a big water quality problem. We got, we're forty-ninth for public land. We got people who leave the state for outdoor recreation opportunities.

• 1:07:06Speaker 07

  Call me crazy. If we did a massive wetlands restoration, we could fix all three of those problems with the same solution. Right? Cause nothing filters water better than nature's water filter. That's just the truth. If you wanna clean your water up, you ought to put it in a wetland. And I like to say, there's four and a half Fs for things you can do with a wetland. You can take a field trip. You can fowl hunt. You can float, you can fish and you can photograph, photograph, I call half an F.

• 1:07:30Steven Rinella?

  Yep, got it. Yeah, that's, that's fair.

• 1:07:32Speaker 07

  And, and, yeah, and, and like this is, this is basically, you just drew a circle with those four and a half Fs that includes pretty much everybody. I mean, who doesn't wanna do one of those things? You might wanna, you might wanna photograph the duck before I shoot it. But you know, the more wetlands we have across the state, the cleaner water we're gonna have. And then fewer people are gonna leave. We're not gonna offer them mountains. If they want the mountains, they're gonna come out to Bozeman or they're gonna go out to Colorado. But if we wanna offer them a stream where you can see the bottom of it, where it's fun to just stand there and catch crawdabs the way I did when I was a kid. Or better trout fishing or better fishing in lakes too. You know, we can get there. We can get cleaner water. We just gotta put a little effort into it.

• 1:08:12Steven Rinella?

  I think a lot of people view, and, and if they have this view, I'm not critical of it. But they would say, how, you, you can't make a wetland, it just is, right? What does it mean to create wetlands? Like I, I think in people's heads, like that, like God makes wetlands. Man doesn't make wetlands. What, what does that mean?

• 1:08:34Speaker 07

  I mean, to me, obviously there's a, a different level where to some folks, the idea of wilderness and something that is truly pure and just is, is kinda like their highest end. And I, I love that idea. Um, we're not gonna have that here. Uh Iowa is one of the most terraformed places on the planet, meaning mankind in Iowa as much as anywhere else. As said, I'm gonna take this land and make it this. But you can make it back into a wetland, right? I mean, at the end of the day, what we're talking about is taking some of the lowest pieces of land, some of the most saturated pieces of. And instead of running crops on them, like actually do the restoration work,

• 1:09:19Speaker 07

  remove the tile from that wetland area and put in place like the right soils, the right plants to make it be what it used to be. If it wanted to be a wetland, there's a place in the geography that wants to be a wetland, then take it and make it so that it can be a wetland again.

• 1:09:43Steven Rinella?

  So it's rather than wetland creation. What we're talking about is wetland, wetland restoration.

• 1:09:51Speaker 07

  That's right. That's right. That's right.

• 1:09:53Steven Rinella?

  You, you just mentioned how you, you have a very low percentage of public land.

• 1:10:00Speaker 07

  Right.

• 1:10:01Steven Rinella?

  What does it look like to do wetland restoration in a landscape where there's very little public land? This, this, this has to involve, I'm guessing this has to involve a plan of incentivizing landowners to allow, in some cases, you know, small portions, large portions of agricultural production areas to be restored to wetlands.

• 1:10:28Speaker 07

  So what I want to do, first of all, you got to take a watershed approach because if you're, if you're aiming to clean up water, if you just do a scattershot thing, one size doesn't fit all, and you want to have an area, I mean, you know, science, you want to have an area that you tested and then an area that you didn't. So that five, 10 years later, you can say, look, now the water's cleaner over here because we did all this work. Let's expand that program and do it over there. And that helps you measure the impact of what you're doing, which to me helps the public understand that you're treating them right. You're taking care of their tax dollars, you're cleaning up their water, you're giving them more fun places to play. What I specifically, what I want to do is basically a reverse auction. So

• 1:11:14Speaker 07

  have the state say, you know, put out a form that just says, hey, landowners in Iowa, give us the GPS coordinates on your plot, tell us the lowest price per acre that you will take.

• 1:11:26Steven Rinella?

  Oh.

• 1:11:26Speaker 07

  And then once we collect all those effectively bids, but it's bids to sell, not bids to buy.

• 1:11:32Steven Rinella?

  Yep.

• 1:11:32Speaker 07

  You collect all those bids and then you overlay that on a GIS map so that you're looking at what are our most targeted areas? Which of these places that have been offered to us give us the most bang for the buck and, and go from there. So at the end of the day, and you got to, again, this is going to have to be within particular watersheds to start. Uh, cause I want to be able to, I want to be five years down the road and be able to point at it and say, hey, look, look at how much better we're doing here. Uh, look at how much better we're doing there in these two watersheds that we started with. Let's, let's keep going.

• 1:12:02Steven Rinella?

  Yeah. I, I think what, what, what I think is

• 1:12:05Speaker 07

  That's why it's voluntary, which I think is important.

• 1:12:07Steven Rinella?

  Yeah. What I was going to point out is like a lot of conservation projects that I applaud would wind up being situations of willing seller, willing buyer. So I think a lot of people here, oh, agricultural lands, um, that must mean they're coming with eminent domain and taking people's farms. But in this case, you're often looking at places that probably have low output are

• 1:12:29Speaker 07

  That's right.

• 1:12:29Steven Rinella?

  probably, um, variable in production because there's always the risk of flooding anyways. And places where someone could pull it out of their holdings and know that it's not turning into a strip mall. It's not turning into something next to them that they don't want, but it's getting reverted to an area that's probably going to add value to surrounding landscapes. It's going to add wildlife quality to surrounding landscapes and you create a situation where a bunch of people win.

• 1:12:59Speaker 07

  And you know, you know how this works. I mean, if you got a, uh, if you're in a small town that happens to have good hunting nearby, your restaurants and your hotel are just going to be that much busier because of it. And so if we see that kind of restoration where people are like, hey, there's this big new, uh, wetland in north central Iowa. Um, you know, yeah, that's going to be good in that area. And you might be a hotel that's 30 miles away or a restaurant that's 30 miles away. That's just a 30 minute drive in Iowa, you know?

• 1:13:25Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:25Speaker 07

  So you still might be benefiting from that too. The other piece of it is we've got this state program, you know, one of the issues with CRP nationally is you, you don't really allow grazing on it. But there's a lot of compellatability with grazing and with wildlife. And so we've got a state program called the working lands program.

• 1:13:45Steven Rinella?

  Yep.

• 1:13:46Speaker 07

  Where again, it, it's designed to take some of that

• 1:13:50Speaker 07

  lower CSR, CSR is corn suitability rating, but it's lower CSR land. Maybe it's a steep grade and so it's highly erodible. Again, maybe it's just sort of wetter or maybe it's right along the river. But the working lands program helps folks takes, take that, uh, land that's more highly erodible uh, and turn it into grazing land. So you do, you know, a short grass prairie, great. If you're grazing on short grass prairie, you're going to have more habitat. Uh, maybe it's, it's pheasant instead of ducks. Uh, but that's still beneficial for folks, no matter what it is they want to do. It still helps clean up our water and still helps, uh, growers and producers with profitability because you're not telling them like we are with, uh,

• 1:14:36Speaker 07

  uh, CRP, like, well, you can't do anything with.

• 1:14:39Steven Rinella?

  Yeah. It gives people the middle step. And, and for, for listeners that talk about, we're talking about the CRP Conservation Reserve Program, which critics would say, oh, it's paying farmers not to do nothing. But what, what it does is it creates a economic incentive.

• 1:14:58Steven Rinella?

  And maybe that's even too strong of a word, but it, it, it makes it financially viable for landowners to put areas of their property on hold. Um, and let the soils rebuild and create wildlife habitat where it's not such an economic hit to them to enroll. People don't get rich off CRP. But in some cases, it's like a more flexible system would get more people to be able to participate in conservation and still run working properties and like you're saying, graze cattle.

• 1:15:30Speaker 07

  Yeah. Yeah. And especially right now, you know, we've got so many people out there who are really hurt. Farm income has gone down about 50% on average. Um, and, and the other piece of this is I, what I'd love to do is, you know, if you're, if you're saying, oh, well, this is only a small acreage. Well, put a few cattle out there. I want us to do more support for local and regional food systems. So if you've just got a small head of cattle, or if you want to, I don't know what you want to graze out there. But even if it's a smaller amount, you're not going to have enough to have do a commercial slaughter. You do local slaughtering at a locker and sell it to local school districts. Let's keep, that helps keep that money here locally, helps reinforce local rural economies and that helps everybody win too.

• 1:16:14Steven Rinella?

  When you're, when you're out there, I'm sure, I'm guessing you got to talk about all kinds of stuff that is really on people's minds and that doesn't really, not that it doesn't interest us here, but it's just outside of our focus on the show. But I'm sure you're out there talking about gas prices and grocery prices and all this kind of stuff because you gotta be. But when you go out and you, and you're doing your town hall meetings and you're talking to constituents, um, how much interest, how much tolerance is there for discussions about conservation issues? Like when you start talking about wetlands, do people tune out? When you start talking about CRP, do they tune out or are

• 1:16:50Speaker 07

  Not in Iowa.

• 1:16:50Steven Rinella?

  Interested?

• 1:16:52Speaker 07

  In Iowa, right now, this is a, a hot topic and people really like our plan. You know, I've, I've got, uh, people who are on the ag side and people who are on the conservation side and people who are just on the hunting side. And then just people who don't do any of those things, but they want better water, water quality. All of them are like, this is a good idea. You've got a good plan. And it's partially because we got this water quality crisis, you know? We have a lot of beach closures at our state parks every year. So I want to, I want to fix this stuff and so do other people.

• 1:17:21Steven Rinella?

  Oh, so people are feeling, it's not just duck hunters that are thinking about this.

• 1:17:25Speaker 07

  Correct. Correct. And so actually when I do my town halls and I say, I want to, I want us to have the biggest wetlands restoration uh, that anyone has ever seen, sometimes we get applause on that. You know, people are, people really want to see improvement in water quality. And to me, the number one way to do that that gets people excited is more wetlands.

• 1:17:44Steven Rinella?

  Yeah. Um, so when's the election? What date this year? I should know this.

• 1:17:49Speaker 07

  I should know this too. November 3rd, I think.

• 1:17:51Steven Rinella?

  November 3rd. So like

• 1:17:53Speaker 07

  First, so first Tuesday after the first Monday, whatever that is.

• 1:17:57Steven Rinella?

  Okay. So you're, you're poll, you're poll, you, you, I know, I know you don't pay attention to this. People do. You're polling well. Your view is that you're going to be out there laying, making your case. You don't care what the polls say, and that's not what you're here to talk about. You're polling well. Let's say, let's just say the voters of Iowa send you to the governor's office on November 3rd. What is your, what is the day that you have to report to work?

• 1:18:27Speaker 07

  The day I would switch jobs, uh, I think is the 14th of January.

• 1:18:33Steven Rinella?

  Oh.

• 1:18:34Speaker 07

  I know it's in January. I know I get two months to like, you know, take a nap.

• 1:18:39Steven Rinella?

  So yeah, that's, that's what I'm

• 1:18:40Speaker 07

  I get the rut. I get the rut, Steve.

• 1:18:42Steven Rinella?

  That's what I'm getting at.

• 1:18:43Speaker 07

  If you want to get the, I get the rut. Yeah.

• 1:18:45Steven Rinella?

  On November 2nd is too late.

• 1:18:49Steven Rinella?

  I don't know. The morning of November 3rd is too late. Like it's, what's done is done. So you could feasibly hunt, you could feasibly deer hunt this year.

• 1:18:57Speaker 07

  On the 3rd.

• 1:18:58Steven Rinella?

  What's that?

• 1:18:59Speaker 07

  Oh yeah. No, I'll be, I'll be out there. I'll be out there after the 3rd, but you're, you have a point. I could go out on election day.

• 1:19:08Speaker 07

  And you know, what's kind of the die is cast at that point. I don't know if I'll do that. I'd probably be a little bit too ENC, but that'd be, that'd be pretty cool to fill a tag on the same day.

• 1:19:17Steven Rinella?

  You'd be calling your wife from the stand being like, hey, did I win?

• 1:19:20Speaker 07

  Yeah. Yeah. I actually, so funny story. I ran for reelection as state auditor in 22 and it was super tight. And the guy that I was running against didn't even, we knew we were going to win. We knew we had a big enough lead that even in a recount, it's like, okay, buddy, you got a lot of space. You got to make up here. So we were pretty comfortable and I found out that I won. When I was field dressing a buck, when a reporter called me to be like, hey, your opponent conceded. He's like, where are you right now? What are you doing? I'm like, uh, I'm in, I'm in Madison County, field dressing a nice buck. You should have seen the, this, the space in the oak leaves that I put

• 1:20:01Speaker 07

  that arrow through. Like he, he, he came in probably, and this is a tree I've sat in many times. It's a great spot, but I'd never actually, I never actually had taken a buck out of it before. He came in, um,

• 1:20:18Speaker 07

  and the wind was just right and he's heading towards me and he kind of looks around a little bit and I'm like, I'm, I'm shooting this buck if I get a shot. And he pauses dead straight on, not quartering towards, just dead on. It's probably 25 yards away. I can't, he stands there for a while. I can't tell if he's going to turn and go or keep coming, but I'm, I'm ready. And he ends up kind of doing, I guess, like a receiver, you'd say like a button hook, you know, kind of comes in a little bit further and does a full turnaround. And I just had this one little window and I gave a little bleep and got him to pause right in that window. He just poked that arrow right through.

• 1:21:02Steven Rinella?

  And then you won, and then you won the election a couple of minutes later.

• 1:21:05Speaker 07

  And then I won the election and, and, and he, he took off and he went down. He only, he, he, I mean, didn't go 20, but he went down in a pine grove where the dirt was so soft, I didn't actually hear him hit the ground.

• 1:21:19Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:20Speaker 07

  And so I stayed in that tree. I'm, I'm not patient. I've had problems in the past where I'm too excited and I get down too early. I stayed in that tree plenty long and then was just surprised to see like, oh, he's right here. But I didn't, I didn't, he actually like hit the ground and plowed like his, his antler was actually a little bit under the dirt.

• 1:21:37Steven Rinella?

  Like, like something from the cartoons, man, when the bull's charging or something.

• 1:21:41Speaker 07

  Yes. Yeah. Yes.

• 1:21:42Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:44Speaker 07

  It was a fun day.

• 1:21:45Steven Rinella?

  And then, uh, I kind of talked to you about this before we started recording, but you, you, you're, you're enjoying this, you're enjoying this process. You like getting out and talking to people.

• 1:21:56Speaker 07

  Yeah. I mean, there's downsides, um, but I like, I like people in general. I really like Iowans. I like talking to people that I've never met before. I'm, I'm a, I'm a curious person. I like, like to ask them about it themselves. And, you know, when we go to town halls, the, the, the fun part to me is answering people's questions and also hearing them tell stories. Uh, one of the things I'm proposing in this race is actually would require elected officials to do truly public town halls. You get two weeks advance notice. You got to tell people, this is the date, this is the time. Let everybody in that's behaving themselves. You know, it's got to be mixed political company and, and ask and answer non-pre-screened questions, real questions. And so we get, we get these rooms together and it's usually 40% of the

• 1:22:40Speaker 07

  room isn't a Democrat. And you get, you get, people get to be heard by their neighbors. It's not just by me. And then I think that's just a good thing to do, win or lose. I'm, I'm proud to be doing it the way that I, I think I can look back at this, uh, win or lose and, and say, you know what? We, uh, we did it the right way.

• 1:22:58Steven Rinella?

  I'll tell you what, where I'm sitting right now, man, just as an American, um,

• 1:23:05Steven Rinella?

  anyone that is honestly talking about turning down the hatred and turning down the vitriol and turning down the divisiveness has my ear.

• 1:23:19Speaker 07

  I appreciate that.

• 1:23:20Steven Rinella?

  It's just, it's gotta happen. It, it's, it's gotta happen. So I appreciate you talking about that. Definitely appreciate you talking about wetlands and, um, and I love talking about bucks. Your mount looks great. I'll be watching, um, I'll be watching what happens. And I want to thank you again for taking the time to come talk to us, man.

• 1:23:41Speaker 07

  No, thanks for having me back.

• 1:23:42Steven Rinella?

  Ladies and gentlemen, here in from Rob Sands, state auditor in Iowa and currently running, um, for the governorship in Iowa. And on November 3rd, we'll find out what's going to happen there. And on November 4th, we'll wait for a deer report.

• 1:24:03Speaker 07

  It'll probably be quiet, but I'll be out there.

• 1:24:05Steven Rinella?

  All right, man. Thanks so much for coming by and checking back in. Appreciate it.

• 1:24:09Speaker 07

  Yeah. Thanks, Steve.

• 1:24:36Speaker 02

  Now more than ever, basketball teams are embracing advanced analytics. Nothing's more popular right now than coming up with a fancy new stat that helps teams gain an edge on the court. And this season, Bet365 is embracing a fancy concept of its own. Bet $10, get $200. Here's how it works. When new users sign up with Bet365 and place their first $10 bet, they'll get $200 in bonus bets. Fine, maybe it's not that advanced, but an offer this good doesn't have to be. Bet365, where winning is everything. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or 1-800-MYRESSET. Must be 21 plus and present in a state where Bet365 operates. Please gamble responsibly. Restrictions and TNCs apply. Void where prohibited. Download the app today.

• 1:25:18Speaker 03

  Someone once said, everybody's got a plan until they get punched in the mouth. I did. Mike Tyson. Oh, well, Mike Tyson and Boost are here to tell you that your mobile plan is punching you in the mouth with prices that can knock you out. That's a low blow. Totally. But you can do something about it. You have to punch back. No, Mike, you gotta switch to Boost with a plan that's $25 a month forever. Oh, that's a great plan. Maybe you can do both. Boost Mobile. What's your plan?

• 1:25:48Speaker 01

  Okay. Laundry stinks, literally. I mean, you could just keep buying new underwear. Not that I've ever done that. Or maybe sort your clothes into piles based on how re-wearable or filthy they are, or just use Arm & Hammer Deep Clean. It's made for real life stinks and stains. So even if you don't do laundry the quote, right way, Deep Clean will knock it out. I mean, it is from the number one liquid detergent brand that tackles more loads than any other. Come clean with Arm & Hammer Deep Clean. Number one claim based on total wash loads sold.

• 1:26:23Speaker 00

  This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.