He's built multiple $1M+ funnels, Here's What Works In 2025

Join me as I chat with Niels Klement, CMO of Perspective, we discuss how agencies are building highly profitable productized services using AI. He explains that the most successful approach involves focusing on a specific industry niche, creating a repeatable funnel template that delivers consistent results, and using AI to automate fulfillment. The discussion covers funnel optimization techniques, the importance of mobile-first design, and how interactive elements like quizzes significantly improve conversion rates. Timestamps: 00:00 - Intro 01:44 - Overview of productized services and funnel building 03:21 - How to build a niche-focused service 07:59 - Implementation of funnel templates and ads 11:10 - Funnel Strategies in 2025 14:43 - How to make a great VSL 18:54 - Funnel Strategies in 2025 pt2 21:05 - Where to use funnels 23:51 - Demonstration of Perspective funnel building 29:48 - Using funnels to validate startup ideas Build your next sales funnel: https://try.perspective.co/4i8i3dkviavy Key Points: • Agencies are building highly profitable productized services ($10K-100K/month) by focusing on specific niches and using AI and funnel tools like Perspective • The most successful agencies target industries that aren't tech-savvy and focus on business-critical services like recruiting and lead generation • High-converting funnels use interactive elements, personalization, and quiz formats to achieve 26-28% conversion rates on cold traffic • AI can automate much of the service delivery, allowing small teams or solo founders to scale to significant revenue 1) The Productized Service Revolution Agencies are shifting from service-heavy to product-heavy models using AI + automation. Some are scaling to $1M/MONTH with 80% profit margins by: • Targeting specific niches (bakeries, lawyers, etc) • Delivering business-critical results • Using ONE killer funnel template The best part? You can run this with just 1-2 freelancers + AI agents. 2) The Two Most Profitable Service Models Across thousands of agencies using Perspective, two business models consistently outperform: A) RECRUITING FUNNELS Help businesses find talent through automated systems B) LEAD GENERATION FUNNELS Deliver qualified prospects to businesses 3) The "One Funnel, Sell Twice" Strategy The most successful agencies: • Pick ONE industry (preferably not tech-savvy) • Create ONE funnel template that delivers results • Use AI to customize it for each client • Automate fulfillment with AI agents Top agencies in Perspective convert at 26-28% on COLD traffic! 4) What Makes High-Converting Funnels Work? The best performing funnels focus on: • SPEED: Pages loading less than 1 second convert 2.5X better • INTERACTIVITY: Quiz elements that create engagement • PERSONALIZATION: Tailoring content based on responses • CONSISTENCY: Matching ad messaging to landing page These elements create a "dopamine hit" similar to social feeds. 5) The VSL (Video Sales Letter) Framework For creating high-converting video content: • Focus intensely on the HOOK (first 5 seconds) • Provide genuine EDUCATION and value • Show PROOF that builds credibility • Create a natural progression to the OFFER 6) How To Build Your First Funnel The process is simpler than you think: 1. Start with a mobile-first approach (95% of paid social traffic is mobile) 2. Use quiz elements to qualify leads 3. Personalize follow-up based on responses 4. A/B test continuously (Perspective makes this easy) 7) The Startup Validation Strategy 1. Build an audience on social 2. Create a funnel to test messaging 3. Send organic traffic to validate 4. Collect quiz data to understand pain points 5. THEN build your product KEY TAKEAWAY: The future of services is PRODUCTIZED. With tools like Perspective + AI, you can build a highly profitable, low-overhead business by: • Focusing on one niche • Delivering one critical result • Using one killer funnel • Automating with AI LCA helps Fortune 500s and fast-growing startups build their future - from Warner Music to Fortnite to Dropbox. We turn 'what if' into reality with AI, apps, and next-gen products https://latecheckout.agency/ BoringAds — ads agency that will build you profitable ad campaigns http://boringads.com/ BoringMarketing — SEO agency and tools to get your organic customers http://boringmarketing.com/ Startup Empire - a membership for builders who want to build cash-flowing businesses https://www.startupempire.co FIND ME ON SOCIAL X/Twitter: https://twitter.com/gregisenberg Instagram: https://instagram.com/gregisenberg/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gisenberg/ FIND NIELS ON SOCIAL Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nielsklement LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nielsklement/

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Greg Isenberg?

  This episode is with Nils. He's the CEO of Perspective, which is a funnel building software. He shows us how he's spending $250,000 a month to drive people to funnels, how to design funnels that work, how to use AI to automate a lot of it. And I thought this was a really fascinating episode. I've been meaning to go deeper on funnels. It's such a boring topic, but haven't had the time. Brought on Nils. He shows me, he shows you, you'll learn a lot. Hope you enjoy the episode.

• 0:40Greg Isenberg?

  Nils, welcome to the Startup Ideas Podcast. If people stick through the entire episode, what are they going to learn?

• 0:47Speaker 01

  Dude, first of all, very, very excited to be here. I prepared a little something because I know you guys are all up for business opportunities. And we run Perspective, a funnel building tool for primarily agencies. And some of these agencies are doing exceptionally well, building super profitable productized services on the back of AI and Perspective, essentially. And so I thought I'll share a little bit about how that works, how to build a funnel, how that service, what that service looks like from a high level perspective, and how some of these are even scaling to, you know, 50, 100 grand a month quite quickly. So that will be that.

• 1:22Greg Isenberg?

  Cool. So in other words, you're going to spill the sauce on productized services, funnel building, AI, using a new tool called Perspective, which by the way, I haven't, I've only seen the landing page. I haven't used it. So I'm looking forward to seeing how it works.

• 1:38Speaker 01

  Dude, we'll definitely get you set up with an account right after, if you like that. 100%.

• 1:43Greg Isenberg?

  All right, let's rock.

• 1:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, so let's jump right in. So first of all, I just want to share one of the most successful funnel templates that we have. That's a Perspective recruiting funnel. And this one is a Perspective appointment funnel. And so as I said before, we literally have, so we have over 6,000 active customers. And amongst this customer base, we have hundreds of agencies doing anywhere from 10 to 100 grand a month, basically running these funnels as a productized service. And I've even seen agencies scale with a service like that to a million a month. And they do that by super specifically generating results, business critical results in a specific niche.

• 2:27Speaker 01

  So one of these crazy agencies that does almost a million a month is basically doing recruiting for bakeries. Right. We have another agency that is more than 50 people that is doing lead generation for lawyers. Right. And so why am I telling this essentially? Because I think now with AI more than ever, there's this super unique opportunity to build very productized services that are almost more on the product side rather than the service side. Especially with AI and tools like perspective, because it just can't go like that. Where you as the founder, for example, can literally build a side business that does 400 grand, 500 grand a month. 80% profit and you're basically the only team, maybe one or two freelancers and a bunch of agents.

• 3:11Speaker 01

  That's like the main idea. And I think that's the, that's the huge opportunity. And so basically I've prepared this little fixture for one of our masterminds coming up. And so how these agencies are usually doing that, I already shared that a little bit, right? But the most successful agencies are usually picking one industry. And it's ideally an industry that is not too tax savvy, right? Not, not that they would go, go ahead and build out the funnels themselves or run the entire, the entire marketing themselves. It's usually one of those industries that don't own, don't want anything to do with it, right? So we've seen some agencies in insurance, manufacturing, law, I mentioned that before. Medical, solar, like you name it, we have hundreds and hundreds of different industries being represented by these agencies.

• 3:54Speaker 01

  And then they just go ahead and basically choose a business, a business critical service or a business critical results, because that is literally the only thing that will still get you low churn in the agency business nowadays. Right. And across our customer base, the two predominant things are recruiting and lead gen. So what does every business need essentially, right? It's new people if you want to scale up or it's new customers if you want to scale up. Some are even doing both depending on what the customer asks for. And so then, of course, if you have that figured out, if you know what you want to focus on, you can go ahead and build out the entire service, especially if you have that niche focus, right? It's when you can build one, sell twice, and now with AI more than ever. And then the prospective agencies or the agencies that are running the service are first and foremost,

• 4:39Speaker 01

  doing when they set up their account is essentially figure out this one funnel, right? Figure out exactly what type of offer would work for this industry. So for example, this lawyer agency that I mentioned before. So they have figured out a quiz funnel approach that basically gets the lawyers that they work with, like claimants like it's clockwork. And these are like, the guys are literally on top of our high scores list every single week with funnels that are 40, 50% conversion, which is unheard of if you're running cold paid traffic, right? And so that is essentially what they're doing. They're figuring out this one concept. And then from there on, the entire service can of course be optimized and then built around that, where you have GPT create the new copy on the basis of the onboarding survey or whatever it really is.

• 5:21Speaker 01

  And so that is what I want to talk about a little bit more now. Because as I said, I think now with tools like perspective or especially like AI, this is just going to get even better, where you can run this entire service as a single founder with a very small team or no team at all. And so what we've seen work, and by the way, we have.

• 5:42Greg Isenberg?

  By the way, you've piqued my interest. Let's just put it, I'll put that lightly. What you're saying is basically, there are people out there that are creating productized services that are more products than services, that are using automation, AI, and one killer funnel to focus on a niche. And there are people out there making hundreds of thousands of dollars a month doing it.

• 6:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:07Greg Isenberg?

  It's very interesting to me. I have a friend, he's a friend of the pod, a very close friend of the pod, Jicecream. People in the comment section will know. He, he always is in my ear about how important a funnel is and how you can create a funnel that, you know, can generate many, many, many seven, eight, nine, 10 figures. And if you look at popular, even popular products today, like AG1 from Athletic Greens is a funnel. Like I was actually looking today, I, I saw an ad from AG1. Cold traffic, get on a landing page, go straight to subscribe and then you get three free gifts.

• 6:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:45Greg Isenberg?

  So what I hope to get out of this episode today is just learning about how people are doing this with respect to productized services. So I'm interested.

• 6:53Speaker 01

  Happy to hear it, dude. And to that point, man, I think like we're also an amazing case study, right? We have taken perspective to more than 10 million ARR primarily through funnels and paid performance marketing. Like we have, I have a friend that his business does nine figures a year and basically their main channel is meta ads, right? Towards simple funnels and they maybe have like three to four funnels and that's it. It's nine figures, man. And so, yeah, the power of these are immense. And so I'll definitely spill the sauce on some of our most successful funnels if that's what you're also interested in. But what I wanted to say originally is we have another friend, he's running an agency consulting business. Basically what they're doing is their main product is they're coming into existing agencies, they're basically deploying AI systems to automate that entire

• 7:37Speaker 01

  fulfillment. Right? And so we're more heavy on the funnel side of things and you know, the actual, the thing that you'll put behind the ad. But I think that's just like such an interesting thought process because all of a sudden this super only people leveraged business model will turn into something that is very AI leveraged and/or technology leveraged.

• 7:58Speaker 01

  Exactly. And so what most of these agencies are doing, they're basically like, first of all, they already set up a funnel just to onboard the clients, right? So it's more or less like a survey in this case. And I'll get to why they use perspective for that a lot as well in a bit.

• 8:10Greg Isenberg?

  Quick break in the pod to tell you a little bit about Startup Empire. So Startup Empire is my private membership where it's a bunch of people like me, like you, who want to build out their startup ideas. Now they're looking for content to help accelerate that. They're looking for potential co-founders. They're looking for tutorials from people like me to come in and tell them, how do you do email marketing? How do you build an audience? How do you go viral on Twitter? All these different things. That's exactly what Startup Empire is. And it's for people who want to start a startup but are looking for ideas, or it's for people who have a startup but just they're not seeing the

• 8:53Greg Isenberg?

  traction that they need. So you can check out the link to startupempire.co in the description.

• 9:01Speaker 01

  But then from there on, once you have that data, you can literally go ahead. And once you have that one funnel figured out, you know exactly what the structure is. You only need to basically apply the new copy that is on the basis of the of the business, right? You have to apply the new colors, the branding, all that good stuff, and then it's ready to launch. Ideally, even depending on what what type of offer you have, you could even go ahead with GPT and generate the the ad creatives. Although, like, for example, for lead gen businesses, the output's very in terms of quality. So I'd maybe still be a little bit careful with that. But at the same time, like, having having the copy already done is, of course, something that's definitely a use case. Next to, of course, having the entire operations sourced sourced out to AI agents, right?

• 9:44Speaker 01

  The entire invoicing, the CRM updates, and we've seen all of that work super, super well. And so what you would have to do from there on is essentially just apply that to the funnel, that one funnel template that you have figured out for that specific industry, because you know it will get results. Because that is essentially the only thing that you should care about as an agency, right? Is getting your customers' results, because then it's when they'll stick around, well, they'll have huge LTVs, and that's when you are actually able to scale an agency business. And so, yeah, that is basically then the next step. Implement the funnel template and emails, and of course, the ads. I would also suggest to go with static ads. That's usually for simple lead gen campaigns or simple recruiting campaigns. Any like, that's what you need to do. You can always start with static ads, so much lower cost to just do that, right?

• 10:28Speaker 01

  Especially as an agency service and then having that copy generated and just put into templates again. Basically makes that service, yeah, very, very easy to run. And so some of the things why prospective funnel specifically, and we'll go and build out a funnel in a bit, but going back to, for example, that lead gen example, right? So this is one of our appointment funnel templates. I'm not sure, like, have you recently clicked on any ads, Greg?

• 10:49Greg Isenberg?

  Dude, that AG1 ad got me this morning.

• 10:52Speaker 01

  And you you have been sold? Yeah?

• 10:55Greg Isenberg?

  I wasn't sold. First of all, I used to be a customer. I thought about clicking subscribe. I definitely thought about it.

• 11:04Speaker 01

  Got it, got it. Yeah, dude, so good job for AG1 then. That's exciting to hear. But essentially, the main problem that we've been seeing out there is that funnels really, or websites as a matter of fact, didn't really evolve for such a long time. Right? So the concept funnels came around back in 2014, maybe 2013. And essentially, there is a huge disconnect that's happening when you're clicking on an ad and then when you're let's to the funnel. Where, for example, right, where in the ages of TikTok, in the ages of Instagram Reels, like people are hit with dopamine hits left and right. And then you click on an ad and boom, there's this huge text. It's very hard to navigate. It's not beautiful, right? And this is exactly where perspective comes in.

• 11:49Speaker 01

  And this is where the ideas stem from. Because what we are very much optimizing for is this delightful experience is the speed of use. So for example, I've shared this on the pod with Cody as well, but like loading speeds, right? Just this one tweak that I think everybody is aware of. Most people don't really know how important that actually is in driving conversions. Like there are studies that say, you know, pages loading longer than five seconds versus pages that load faster than one second. The pages with one second loading speeds convert up to 2.5x more. And I mean, if you have one of these businesses that is mostly relying on paid performance marketing, right? If you just let that sink in, that essentially means more than double the revenue

• 12:34Speaker 01

  just from this loading speed. And so that's like a minor thing, but you just need to make sure that your funnels are always optimized for speed and that they're loading fast. And so that is always coming with perspective out of the box, no matter the content that you put on there. Right? The next thing is that essentially, like you'll see that most of our templates have these quiz elements. And this is very similar to, you know, the thing I've mentioned before is like, you've been scrolling, you've been doom scrolling, it's been very interactive. You've like get these dopamine hits all the time. You now want something that's fun. Because if you can make that experience fun to the visitor, they'll actually convert, are more likely to convert in the backend. And so you'll see a lot of the best performing perspective funnels actually using using a lot of this interactivity, right?

• 13:17Speaker 01

  And then I'm not entirely sure what type of funnel the AG1 funnel was that you clicked on this morning. Was it just ad straight to like a landing page with an offer or what was it like?

• 13:26Greg Isenberg?

  Exactly.

• 13:27Speaker 01

  Okay, cool.

• 13:28Greg Isenberg?

  Yeah.

• 13:28Speaker 01

  So then that's an ad that's more or less targeting people that are more deeper in inside the funnel, I would say, right? People that are that are ready to purchase. But in this case, it's more, especially for lead gen, we're more on the B2B side of things. So if you're purchasing like a, a product that's, that's 10 grand, it's usually not, you know, landing page straight to the offer, subscribe for 10 grand, like to this agency service. And so this is more about the lead gen. And what we see working as well a lot is that on the basis of these quiz questions that in and of themselves already help with conversion, right, you would then lead these people through multiple questions. You of course, A, can qualify the lead because that's super important for your sales team to just not waste their, their time.

• 14:09Speaker 01

  But at the same time, especially with ad algorithms, what we enable you to do is basically on the answer of these questions to send back only the qualified leads to the platforms. And as these AI algorithms are super, super strong, right?

• 14:23Speaker 01

  You want to make sure that you're only feeding them the right data so that they can optimize for you and actually know which people to show the ad to for you to have more conversions, right? And so on the basis of these questions, then we do the same thing here. We have a qualified and an unqualified page and we're sending that traffic then, or that, that conversion event back to Meta only if it's qualified for the algorithm to optimize more for that.

• 14:43Greg Isenberg?

  I have a tactical question.

• 14:45Speaker 01

  Go ahead, sir.

• 14:46Greg Isenberg?

  I've seen my, my friend J Ice Cream have a similar type of funnel. I think it's called the VSL, right? Video Sales Letter.

• 14:54Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 14:54Greg Isenberg?

  And I see these videos that you guys do and they're like, it's art. Like you guys know exactly what to say, how to say it. Like when you had the idea to create this video, for example, how did you take it from, I want to create a video to this video is super dope and awesome and is working?

• 15:13Speaker 01

  That's such a, such a good question, man. So we have basically two modes. One mode is what you just said is basically where you, you have this idea, you have an idea for an angle, an ad or like a VSL. And you go ahead, you script it and you try to optimize every single word, right? And you, you make like really specific editing remarks so that, that it's a masterpiece. I've done many of these. I've spent 24 hours net time on a video that will be 20 minutes long, if like 10 minutes long, right? And it flopped. And so by now, when we do VSLs, I actually have a way different approach. I only focus very much on the hook, right? So it's really, really important that like first, first five seconds, people are like, oh shit, like I really need to watch this. That's the first thing.

• 15:58Speaker 01

  Then I focus a lot on education, actually providing value. And that's also very, very important, especially in B2B, right? We're selling a software product. Like it is no use to us if you're coming in into the software and you're like, ah, okay, I'll just try it out. I maybe click a bunch of buttons. You need to use the product. You need to convert on your trial. You need to ideally stay with us for years to come, right? And so we really focus on that educational part. Third part is a lot of proof. You just want to make sure that people know you're, you're real, right? That's, that's super important. And then a natural progression into the offer. These are like the four things that I, that I focus on by now. And so the process for VSLs for me personally is, as I said, like I script the hook. I make sure that's banger. And then I really dive into content and just make that a little bit more fast paced.

• 16:41Speaker 01

  Maybe, you know, after in the post editing, make that super engaging to retain the people, uh, the, uh, the visitors or the, the viewers throughout the video. And then from there on, just focus on the content. That's been the process so far.

• 16:51Greg Isenberg?

  So I think a lot of people understand how they would actually, you know, record a loom style type of video and show their product, show their service and why it's great. But I think where people struggle is on the hook. So you basically were like, yeah, you just come up with a hook. That's really, really good.

• 17:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:10Greg Isenberg?

  Are you looking for inspiration somewhere or how do you, how do you create a hook that, that works?

• 17:16Speaker 01

  So by now I primarily look into like previous VSLs that, that we've done, right? So, um, basically I just look at our data because that is of course, especially if you're also running an agency and that ties back into that service. Like if you have 10 clients in the same industry, you know exactly, oh, that one client drastically outperformed. Why was it? You need to analyze that. You need to know that, right? So that the 11th client that you onboard gets even better results and it, he retains for longer. And so that's basically where I personally start now, but back in the day, I just started to like with mimicking people that have done it super well, where I know, hey, that video, like it got a million views on YouTube, people must've been hooked, right? And so I learned from that and then I wrote the first couple of hooks. And at some point it's more intuition, but at first I was literally just copying.

• 18:01Speaker 01

  So I think that's a good way to start as well.

• 18:03Greg Isenberg?

  Cool.

• 18:04Speaker 01

  How do you do your hooks for your podcast? Because I'm listening to them and I'm like, damn, okay, gotta watch that.

• 18:09Greg Isenberg?

  I start, I start most of the podcast by being like, what are people gonna get out of this video? I'm a meat and potatoes, simple guy. And, and maybe that's what people could do, right? For their own VSLs, just be like, hey, like, my name is Greg. And I mean, exactly what you said here, watch this 12 minute video to learn exactly how we did it.

• 18:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly, exactly. And that is also a super important piece because that also helps us have an easier time in our marketing. Right? Because at the end of the day, people sign up to perspective to deliver results. They want to get their clients to a new level. They want to grow their business to a new level. And so what am I leading with? I'm always leading with the desired results. Right? So I'm always saying, hey, this funnel got X, Y, and Z result for that cost or within these days. Like, this is always the first pitch. Any ad that you'll see from, uh, from myself out there, uh, it will basically be that. And so one, one further thing that I wanted to show here, so within perspective, and this is also comes down to, you know, the actual process that you'll have. But one of the bigger pieces in performance marketing is first of all, you always want to make sure that the entire experience is super consistent. Right? So similar that you just came from a super engaging feed.

• 19:10Speaker 01

  You want to make sure that the funnel also is super engaging is there within, within milliseconds. Ideally, the experience can go on. One other thing, of course, is that also the consistency of the content needs to be there. So what you're saying in the ad needs to be backed up by what is, uh, set on your funnel. And so that's why we also use a lot of personalization within perspective. That's one of the other bigger pieces that, uh, that we see, uh, drive more conversions. So for example, in this case, I'm using this headline variable. And so what I could do in the ad account, I could just spin up five ads. All of these five ads have five different, uh, headlines. For example, I would put that as a variable into the link and it would be shown here on the funnel, which is actually proven to also help with conversion. So like, these are these bits and pieces, right?

• 19:49Speaker 01

  The interactivity, the delightful experience, the, um, consistency, the personalization that actually drive way more conversion. And we've seen this, like, a top 20% of customers have an average conversion of like 26%, uh, 28% on cold traffic. Uh, like cold meta traffic, right? People that have never heard of you before. And so then from there on, this personalization thought also continues because on the basis of these questions that we're asking here, right? You're not only able to, you know, pre-qualify the lead, but you're also able to personalize the offer. So in this case, um, for example, I have this goal question here. And it's leading to a specific result. So on the basis of that, I'm showing them a different VSL after they've opted in for that quiz funnel, because then I of course have a higher chance to convert them if I like

• 20:33Speaker 01

  directly speak to their pain point, directly speak to their desire. And if you say, hey, my goal is to grow my audience, then the headline of course is how to add XYZ followers within 30 days, right? If the goal is to post more consistently is how to post seven times a week while only investing two hours per month, whatever. Like this type of personalization, keeping that consistency to what a user really wants, what actually helps us grow the business and of course also agencies get insane results for the clients. And then from there on, dude, I've mentioned that before, right? But I'm not sure how many, like what funnel software do you use or like what landing page software do you use personally?

• 21:09Greg Isenberg?

  Dude, you're gonna, you're gonna actually make fun of me.

• 21:12Speaker 01

  Go ahead.

• 21:13Greg Isenberg?

  We'll talk about B to B. I'm a co-founder in a business called LCA. It's literally like one of the, if not the leading design firm for the AI age, like all the top or a lot of the top AI companies hire LCA to like design their product, build their brand, stuff like that. It's like a landing page with like a little bit of copy. Most of our clients just come from word of mouth. So we have like no, no ads, no, no funnel, just like, you know, Guy was VP of product at this company and now moves over to this company and hires us again, you know?

• 21:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, makes sense. And I think especially like for like the enterprise level, I'm not entirely sure what your average deal size would be, but I'm guessing it's quite decent, you know?

• 21:56Greg Isenberg?

  Yes.

• 21:56Speaker 01

  And I think like at that point, there's like acquisition channels might not be Facebook ads anymore. I agree, I agree.

• 22:02Greg Isenberg?

  Well, maybe, I don't know. It's like, that's why we haven't done it, right? Like we haven't done it is because, but you know, I'm open to trying it.

• 22:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, dude, we have customers that are, that are in the higher five figure ARR ranges, right? And so these are also coming from Facebook ads. We literally primarily focus on Facebook ads. Of course, you'd be most likely a way higher than that, but can work, can definitely work. But as you have like such a narrow audience, I would not think that Facebook is the best channel to start investing your money, or maybe be LinkedIn ads at that point. But yeah, we can also.

• 22:34Greg Isenberg?

  I mean, realistically, what I should be doing is. Using something like use this product, create a funnel and just use organic social traffic to the funnel.

• 22:46Speaker 01

  Dude, 100%. And I think like, um, let me just quickly spin up another example because we use funnels everywhere, right? So we use funnels for customer feedback. We use funnels for organic marketing. We use funnels primarily in paid, but like essentially it works for anything because these funnels just convert so much better. So we just want to use them everywhere. And so one of the recent examples is I did like a lead magnets post a couple of days ago on LinkedIn. I'm not sure if you've ever done these yourselves, like, you know, hey, if you want to get access to this, then like and reply, stuff like that. Yeah. And so that works super, super well. Um, and we of course then send out a funnel, right? In this case, it's a more simplistic funnel, but it's basically then throughout in leading to a BSL, in this case, asking you to download a, um, or if you want to copy a perspective,

• 23:29Speaker 01

  um, templates, a funnel template instantly into your account, you get the free trial there. And so like this one is also doing super well so far. Uh, 38% conversion, you know, um, 224 conversions a total. And then once this is validated, this is like a super nice playground for us. Of course we'll put paid traffic behind it, right? Once we know there are conversions coming through, we just scale, scale the heck out of it. That's, that's basically the process.

• 23:51Greg Isenberg?

  So I would build a funnel with the, with the product, but the problem is I feel like I need a Nils next to me, you know? Like, I don't know if I can do it on my own. Am I wrong there?

• 24:03Speaker 01

  So I think you are, of course. One thing that's super important to, uh, point out is that the entire creative question is very, very big, right? So with perspective, you, you can make sure that the entire technical questions are solved for, you know, that the funnel in and of itself is great as it is, but if you put a weak headline on there, that's going to be trouble, right? And so of course, like you can, you can have AI help you build that out. And I think there's some improvement that you can, uh, that you can create with that. Um, but at the end of the day, like really, really strong copy usually only comes from knowing your audience, knowing your customers, similar to what you said before, right? You want to make sure that, uh, like what's in it for them when they're clicking on my video for the pot and I'm focusing on that. And so that really comes from inside, but let me, let me just quickly spin up a, a

• 24:48Speaker 01

  new blank funnel and we have, uh, like a lot of templates here.

• 24:54Speaker 01

  But the beautiful thing, and this is what I've mentioned before, right? The importance or what we focus on with respect to is speed and performance. Because like if you can spin up these funnels in an hour and it doesn't take you, you know, weeks and weeks to build a funnel for your client before launching, then you can A, launch way more clients and you also have just an easier time in general. So like the idea of hey, we want to make the visitors' experience delightful, applies to our customers as well. We just want to make sure that building funnels is like finally fun and easy. Right? And so let's just quickly start completely blank. What you can do here, so in this case, we have a starting page, we have one result page, right? So simple concept is always hey, we have multi-pages either through a quiz, through quiz elements or like with a different opt-in page.

• 25:38Speaker 01

  And then from there on, we have a result page or multiple thank you pages, depends on what we're trying to build out. And so I would just start out with this perspective funnel, taking some of these section templates, right? And these are then taken from the most successful funnel. So in this case, we have a bunch of hero sections in here. We have a bunch of product-specific sections in here, call to actions about us, yada, yada, yada. And so I would just start out, for example, alright, this is my hero. In this case, just need to remove the divider, but everything is like super, super fast. Of course, everything also is instantly responsive, right? And so one other thing that you might have just noticed, where we're always starting out at this mobile canvas. Why is that? Because especially if you're running traffic from Page Social, it's like 95% mobile. And so you always want to make sure that it's mobile first.

• 26:22Speaker 01

  And most of the other solutions out there are usually like, they always start out with desktop. It's, I think, just something that has been retained for like over 10 years. And then we think like mobile first, always starting mobile first is the way to go. And so then you would of course go ahead and adjust this thing. You can also adjust the theming, the fonts and everything with the design tab here. And then we would just go ahead and build out our base funnel structure. So next up, we would want to have like something specific on the product, for example. Maybe these three benefits right there. Nice. Of course, also sweet column layout in here. And so we would just go ahead, build it out like that, right? And then from there on, let's just consider we have built out this funnel. Of course, it will take some time, but we have built out this funnel.

• 27:07Speaker 01

  Then some of the cool things that you also can do within perspective is you can also set up the emails directly from here. All right. So for example, for the email builder, we have the exact same experiences with the funnel builder. So you can just basically breeze through, especially once you have the copy done, maybe with the help of AI and have the images done with the help of AI. I can just literally breeze through and implement it like that. Yeah. And dude, that's essentially the process. And we have like so many customization opportunities as well with the different blocks, right? So if we just quickly, quickly click here on the plus sign, you can literally like build anything here, right? So we have images, of course, we have the videos for the famous VSLs that you've mentioned before, testimonial slides, webinar block, countdown, like anything that you would need to drive more conversions, that's in here.

• 27:50Speaker 01

  And of course, also like HTML customization opportunities, if you want to build something more advanced, collect payments, have Calendly directly integrated with the calendar popping up in a very nice intuitive way to not create too much, too much friction between pages. And so that would be essentially a process. So we could also go ahead and just replace this with a quiz element, for example, really quickly. There we go. And so you would just breeze through, maybe create a second page. And one other thing, man, if you're not too deep into performance marketing, this might not be something that will deeply resonate with you, but have you ever used Google Optimize before?

• 28:29Greg Isenberg?

  Yeah, for sure.

• 28:30Speaker 01

  Yeah. Any problems that came up with it?

• 28:32Greg Isenberg?

  I mean, dude, this was years ago, years and years.

• 28:36Speaker 01

  It also doesn't exist anymore. I think.

• 28:38Greg Isenberg?

  The last time I used it was 2012, maybe.

• 28:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. And you know, the thing is with a B testing software usually, what you'll have is first of all, it slows down the page and we've learned before, right? It's like, that's a. Like a safe way to kill your funnel performance slowing down the page. And then the entire setup was also like quite tedious. You would have to create both pages and all that stuff. And so with perspective, we have to make sure that the like entire optimization is super, super simple. Right. So just click on the three dots, create A B test. It would duplicate the page. We could adjust it here in any way we wanted to, then hit publish. And basically that will automatically split the traffic 50 50. And if we were to have some data then on the funnel and we would end the A B test. It would also suggest statistical significance and all that good stuff.

• 29:26Speaker 01

  So we can literally like have that generated by G P T, the B variant of your funnel. Literally launch that B variant already with the setup of your kind. And from there on, it's like you just spin it up over and over again with new B tests that you'll figure out through G P T and or through what has performed before. But like the whole technical side is finally taking care of man. It's like, it's simple and fun. And you hear that I'm excited about it.

• 29:49Greg Isenberg?

  Here's what's cool about this. I think, you know, this is the startup ideas podcast. So a lot of people listening have startup ideas. And, you know, if you have a startup idea, I always say the first thing you should do is like, register a social account, like build an audience, learn the messaging, understand the community. That's the first thing you should do. Once you've done that, then before writing a line of code even, go and build a landing page like this, set up a quiz funnel, basically. Try to even further understand your potential customer, your user, and you're sending traffic. I would start with free traffic personally. Send that free traffic from organic social into your funnel. Iterate on the messaging, iterate, you know, and iterate on the messaging on the funnel,

• 30:34Greg Isenberg?

  iterate on the messaging, social. And then while that's happening, then you're vibe coding your software product. Or then you're vibe coding productized agency service. That's what the mistake I think a lot of people make is they go straight. You know, I spoke to someone yesterday who was like straight building the product, doesn't have an audience, hasn't figured out a good name. The beauty about this is it's a forcing function of getting really good at building traffic and then, and then getting really good at converting and understanding who that traffic is.

• 31:03Speaker 01

  Hundred percent, man. And I think like a quiz funnel, or at least like even if you have a lead magnet funnel, whatever it is, right? Let's say you're building a community. I think that was also one of your approaches. Right? So first of all, starting building that community, like just like simply putting that quiz in there already gets you so many insights that you can then start also used to also start optimizing that entire messaging one more time and also know what pain points to talk to. And so that's also like within our marketing, man, we, uh, we run these quiz funnels, right? We spend like up to 200 grand, 250 grand a month on these and we're crushing with them. And so, um, we constantly also look at the quiz results, right? We just want to make sure, okay, what are people clicking? We're asking, okay, how would you define yourself? Are you like an ad agency, marketing agency, content marketing agency?

• 31:45Speaker 01

  Are we grabbing the right traffic, right? All of these things, like these qualitative insights, they're super helpful to then, then go and optimize. And so like, that's also why we, for example, build up this entire metric section where we're just trying to make sure that there's like all the analytics that you need are in here. Um, and then there's also this entire other part, because as I said, right, we're very focused on agencies that are doing lead gen, B2B, or recruiting,

• 32:09Speaker 01

  where we have built out an entire CRM that is super, super easy to use, where you have the entire data collected. And from there on, you can also automate the, the messages essentially similar to what I've shown before with emails. But yeah, it's collecting all the data here, right? You can go and optimize that traffic, optimize that funnel going forward with the A B testing and all that stuff. And then hopefully, uh, scale your business quite, quite heavily. That's the idea.

• 32:29Greg Isenberg?

  This has been great, Nils. I appreciate it. What people say in the comments section about funnels, about perspective. And, and I appreciate you coming on and sharing, sharing the sauce with us.

• 32:41Speaker 01

  Of course, sir. Thank you so much for having me.

• 32:43Greg Isenberg?

  I'll include where to find Niels on social, in the show notes, you know? And I want to bring on more people who don't have big followings, small followings, who I think are super dialed. When I go to the perspective website, I said this when I met, when I met with Cody, I was like, wow, the perspective website is super dialed. The product looks really simple, dialed. And so I'm looking, I'm looking for more Nilses out there, if they exist, let me know, because it's great.

• 33:12Speaker 01

  I'll make one or two intros if you like, 100%.

• 33:14Greg Isenberg?

  All right. Sounds good.

• 33:16Speaker 01

  Appreciate it. Thanks for having me, Greg. Appreciate it.