#391 - “You’re WRONG” YouTube’s #1 Skeptic Confronts Danny | Professor Dave

Sometimes it can be a good mental exercise to listen to & engage with people who you disagree with. That is why I wanted to have this conversation with Dave. Dave Farina is a science educator & conspiracy debunker who runs the popular YouTube channel 'Professor Dave Explains'. SPONSORS https://mengotomars.com - Use code DANNY for 50% Off & 3 Free Gifts. https://butcherbox.com/danny - Get chicken breast or top sirloin for a year OR ground beef for life, PLUS $20 off. https://amentara.com/go/dj - Use code DJ22 for 22% off your first order. https://mudwtr.com/dannyjones - Use code DANNYJONES for 43% off. https://whiterabbitenergy.com/?ref=DJP - Use code DJP for 20% off. EPISODE LINKS @ProfessorDaveExplains FOLLOW DANNY JONES https://www.instagram.com/dannyjones https://twitter.com/jonesdanny OUTLINE 00:00 - Dave's origin story 05:52 - Cults 14:36 - Human species is older than we thought 21:31 - Science vs. pseudo-science 26:25 - The real public health crisis 37:11 - Health insurance vs. health science industries 41:16 - Totalitarian healthcare restrictions 46:38 - Free speech 51:41 - Dr. Mary Bowden 01:01:47 - Who is really funding health science research 01:11:00 - Dark history of science in America 01:15:33 - RFK 01:23:05 - Dave's issue with Joe Rogan 01:30:04 - Pre-dynastic Egyptian vases 01:40:51 - Epstein & politicizing science 01:46:55 - Debunking Professor Jiang 01:51:16 - Dave's take on UFOs 01:53:46 - Biblical "creationists" 01:57:56 - Top 20 anti-semites in the U. S. 02:07:31 - Zohran Mamdani & the next era of politicians 02:10:39 - Palantir & government surveillance 02:20:04 - Flat Earthers Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 1:07Danny Jones?

  Professor Date.

• 1:08Speaker 03

  Howdy.

• 1:09Danny Jones?

  Howdy. Thanks for coming, bro.

• 1:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, happy to be here. A little surprised to be here, but happy nonetheless.

• 1:15Danny Jones?

  Look, man, you're very talented, and your videos are very funny.

• 1:21Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 1:22Danny Jones?

  And I can't deny that, whether I agree with all of the stuff you say or not. Kudos to you for doing what you're doing and making it entertaining, informative, and [bleep] hilarious. So for the people that are listening to this that may hate your guts because they don't agree with you, which is stupid.

• 1:40Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:41Danny Jones?

  This will be like taking an ice bath for them. It'll be healthy, I think.

• 1:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, I hope they get all the way through it. Yeah.

• 1:50Danny Jones?

  I think it'd be good to start this off by like explaining how you got into all this shit in the beginning.

• 1:54Speaker 03

  Sure. Uh, okay. Let's see. It's good. I mean, even my viewers, I don't think have like the full in-depth origin story. So I guess I can give you kind of the medium length one and then anywhere you want more details. This is a long show, right? You can feel free to pry and get more, more information. I guess I would say, so I studied chemistry in college and then in grad school as well. But ultimately, all I really wanted to do was play music. So from the beginning of college, I knew I wanted to be a musician. I was playing in bands, really obsessed with that. And, uh, but decided to be a chem major anyway. Apparently I was very practical in that regard. But then all through my twenties, I was playing in bands and all the while, just, uh, at first I was sort of tutoring and substitute teaching.

• 2:37Speaker 03

  You know, you, you still need to get by, you know, you, you need to make a living and pay the, pay the rent. So bandmates would all be bartenders or whatever. I would teach chemistry. And then I was teaching, uh, organic chemistry at this trade university for about three and a half years. And during that time, the band I was in at that time started to kind of take off a little bit. And so we were signed to a label and touring and all this stuff. And we were touring so much that we, uh, decided we all needed some form of passive income. And so we all had our little ideas and mine was a YouTube channel. So this is 2014. So this is quite a while ago at this point.

• 3:09Danny Jones?

  What kind of music?

• 3:10Speaker 03

  So that band was called The Lonely Wild. Uh, so I would call it like India Americana, I guess, rock and roll. I mean, for like, yeah, it was guitar driven rock music. Uh, I was the drummer in that band. And so, uh, in 2014, like there, there was educational content on, on YouTube. There was, I mean, Khan Academy started way like oh seven, oh eight or something like that. There was Crash Course. There was some stuff like that. And I thought, well, I can do that. So, uh, I, I took my organic chemistry lectures. And just delivered them to camera with a whiteboard. Just here you go. Oh, chem one and two students. And put them online with a little bit of branding and stuff and, uh, it, it was received very well. It was the first thing in my life that just was instantly, you know, people were appreciative and, you know.

• 3:54Speaker 03

  So I had a lot of positive feedback and, um, so I just started to do general chemistry tutorials with, uh, green screen. animations and things like that. And so eventually around mid 2016, it looked like the band wasn't really going to pan out, which was devastating. But the channel was starting to, it had, you know, maybe 10, 20,000 subscribers or something. It was enough to kind of go, all right, well, what if I put all my eggs in this basket? So for the next four or five years, I just started really relentlessly uploading educational tutorials. So high school and undergrad aligned curriculum aligned stuff. I moved on to like biochemistry, biology, physics, astronomy, math, just sort of whatever I had studied, whatever was tangential to what I had studied.

• 4:38Speaker 03

  And continue doing that. And then the reason I'm probably here is that around 2019, 2020, I pivoted into not really pivoted, but in addition to the tutorials, which I still generate. I started making debunking content where I sort of go after charlatans in the science space who are lying about science for whatever financial or political motivation. And I just make content sort of exposing and eviscerating them. And that has definitely gained me more, not necessarily more notoriety. I guess it depends. You know, if you're, if you're in a chemistry department at a university, they're probably talking about my tutorials, but for the broader general public, I'm certainly better known for my debunking content. So.

• 5:18Danny Jones?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Very, very entertaining shit, dude. And are you familiar with Coffeezilla?

• 5:23Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 5:24Danny Jones?

  He's great. He's similar. He calls out sort of like more of the actual like financial fraud that happens with like a lot of the big influencers, like a lot of the crypto bullshit. And a lot of like the, I don't know, he did a bunch of, a bunch of stuff on Patrick McDavid, Grant Cardone, recently like Logan Paul and some other people. I don't keep up with all of it.

• 5:44Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 5:44Danny Jones?

  But he does really good work too. We talked to him like years ago. But recently I watched one of your videos on like on, on ancient Egypt. I think it was about Jimmy Corsetti.

• 5:58Danny Jones?

  I like Jimmy. He's, he's, I've always, he's always been pleasant to me. Um, I get along with him. Uh, if this was about any of my friends, I would laugh my ass off about it. It was, it was very entertaining. Um, and I, I couldn't help but like, share it with a bunch of my friends. Like dude, have you seen this? Like it's great. Like even though like, I don't think the pyramids were tombs. This guy's great. Like this guy's funny. And I think there needs to be people that are like this that are out there because like, I, I don't think that you should be, even though the way it is, is everyone's kind of like siloed into their own ideological bubbles on the internet, which is kind of like, what's the, what the algorithms have done.

• 6:38Danny Jones?

  It's kind of like, like siloed people away for, for whatever algorithmic reason to get more, um, engagement on stuff or to monetize it better. Who knows why?

• 6:50Speaker 03

  It's pretty easy to wrap your head around. I mean, the, the, you know, sensationalist, uh, content, uh, is, is rewarded. So you end up getting audience capture. And so, I mean, that's why I'm, was reticent to come, but ultimately decided it was a good idea. Cause it sounds like you're trying to not necessarily follow, you know, the Joe Rogan path of just exclusively platforming grifters because of, you know, because of the, the revenue that it brings. Um, people want to see this stuff that, you know, and Jimmy's nice to you because he wants access to your platform, but he's a very toxic individual and that whole cult, the pseudo archeology cult, which, you know, you've platformed a bit, uh, uh, you know, Joe, Joe Rogan platforms endlessly.

• 7:31Speaker 03

  It's an extremely toxic, uh, cult. And, uh, you know, I'm sure your listeners that have watched all of these guys on your show and other shows don't want to hear that, but it's absolutely the case. And I have made videos on Graham and his underlings and all of these other, uh, people. I'm starting to move on to other figures because those are not as relevant anymore. And there's other people that are kind of cropping up in this space. And it's just sensationalist clickbait content, anti-establishment. Archaeologists are all idiots and they don't know this like super special secret truth that I'm offering you. It's very, it's tantalizing. It's a tantalizing narrative, but it's.

• 8:03Danny Jones?

  Well, I think, I think everything could be classified as a cult online. There, there's a. A lot of things. Both political parties are absolute cults. Different segments of religious knowledge or religions or cults, basically.

• 8:17Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 8:17Danny Jones?

  And these things have become religions where I don't think it's everyone, man. I think most people are genuinely interested in this stuff, but the people that you see tweeting about it, the loudest people online are, I agree with you, the most toxic people. And then when you see people like that, you automatically want to lump everyone into it and say, this is this big toxic cult, when in reality, it's a handful of people that are very loud online trying to get engagement.

• 8:43Speaker 03

  Sure. But that's, I mean, you know, we're in the heartland of Scientology, right?

• 8:47Danny Jones?

  We are. We got an E-meter right there. We can do a technological exorcism on you right now.

• 8:51Speaker 03

  I walked around by the headquarters yesterday. I was like, this is wild.

• 8:54Danny Jones?

  It's insane.

• 8:55Speaker 03

  But I mean, but you can say that, like, that is like the biggest and most successful cult of the past century.

• 9:00Danny Jones?

  It is, really. It is, right? Why, like, they've, they're the one cult that's been able to survive.

• 9:05Speaker 03

  They've just mastered it. But what I'm saying is that obviously there are always going to be people on the periphery, right? You're trying to lure in people on the periphery. That's why you, you know, all of the, all of what's been going on, exposing the, you know, the Church of Scientology is incredible. And I can't believe they're still able to operate after what's come out. But this is what you do, right? With, with, with all of these nascent cults, you, you have these cult leaders and they're trying to draw in people from the peripheries. And this is, this is reasonable. This is how we, you know, and so that's why there's not enough people making debunking content to serve.

• 9:36Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 9:36Speaker 03

  There's too many of these and they, you know, there has to be enough content or a roughly equal amount of content debunking these claims as there are the people that are generating them, so.

• 9:47Danny Jones?

  Yeah, I just think, you know, this all probably started as far as like the ancient archaeology angle of it. I think when Joe Rogan probably had Graham Hancock on over 10 years ago.

• 9:59Speaker 03

  Just over and over.

• 10:00Danny Jones?

  I think that's the kind of when the internet really exploded with this stuff. I mean, that's, I think Joe actually has said that that's like when his podcast really took off, when he had Graham Hancock on. And, you know, some of the things Graham Hancock is saying, I'm not an expert in Graham Hancock or I have read one of his books maybe six years ago.

• 10:20Danny Jones?

  I'm not the kind of, the type, I'm not the person to debate whether he's right or wrong. But I think there's a genuine interest in this stuff, a genuine human interest in this stuff. And clearly academics and archaeologists and Egyptologists most, mostly disagree with him.

• 10:43Danny Jones?

  It's fascinating, whether he, whether he, whether there is a kernel of truth to what he's saying or not. At least the guys traveling around to all these places, saying all this stuff, like he's not saying this is an absolute bona fide fact.

• 10:55Speaker 03

  Right.

• 10:56Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 10:56Speaker 03

  And he's, he's a tourist peddling sensationalist claims, it's just not really an honest framing. Academics don't disagree, they know that he's wrong, right? And, and Graham is very careful about making very few falsifiable claims. He stays as vague as possible. And that was what was great about, you know, Flint debating.

• 11:13Danny Jones?

  And let me be, another thing, another thing I'll be clear about is I kind of dissented from the norm on Joe's podcast with Flint. I thought Graham body bagged, I mean, I'm sorry, I thought Flint body bagged Graham in that debate. That, that was my, because there's this phenomenon, I'm sure you're aware of, when you watch things online, you kind of gaslight yourself by reading the comments. Because the comments sort of like have their own sort of conclusion they come to. And then you, some people even read the comments first, they'll be like, oh, this must be what it's about. Then you, then you watch the video in that context.

• 11:46Speaker 03

  Hence bot campaigns, because they know that if they can shift the optics in the comment section, that might lead people to not, not even watch the content at all, or you know.

• 11:54Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 11:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 11:55Danny Jones?

  Right. So, so I thought that was a, a great debate to see. I really learned a lot from it and I thought Flint actually did a good job as insufferable as he, some people think he may be, I personally liked him.

• 12:07Speaker 03

  I mean, I don't, like, what's insufferable about providing a mountain of facts and empirical evidence to disprove a grifting fraud?

• 12:13Danny Jones?

  Well, he's very toxic online. He's kind of, I mean, he's just as loud as Jimmy, but on the, in the complete opposite direction.

• 12:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, but these are people who have, you know, encouraged people to contact his place of work and try to get him fired. And like, there's just, after that debate began this entire. Narrative of Flint is a liar. Flint is a liar. Joe said it on his show, had Graham on a bunch more times to talk about what a liar Flint is and then all the other underlings. You know, repeating this narrative. It's just, it's just damage control. He humiliated Graham on Joe's show. That's what happened. You know what I mean? He just brought all the, he got, he got Graham to admit.

• 12:48Danny Jones?

  I thought so too.

• 12:48Speaker 03

  Evidence for anything he says. And then he also brought empirical evidence against the existence of agriculture and all this stuff. And, and even got him to, to walk back and say, well, maybe it was just the idea of agriculture, which is meaningless, right? It just, he exposed how vapid these narratives really are. And Graham's very clever. He doesn't make that many falsifiable claims. But ultimately it's just whimsy, right? Dressed up as this bold anti-establishment research that flies in the face. You know, it's nuts. It's just a grifter making money.

• 13:20Danny Jones?

  One of the things that I've said before that I've thought about a lot, well, I was thinking about this a lot during that time when he did that podcast and before I had Flint on the show is that when you are in that position that Graham Hancock was in in the beginning, where you are sort of like the fringe outlier, anti-establishment person. You feel like everyone's coming to get you. Everyone's trying to take you down and you're kind of the one shining light in this sea of darkness, right? You can go so far, you can come full circle to being like the very thing that you were fighting against in the beginning, to where now everyone is the enemy.

• 13:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, but if figure like Graham never truly was that figure, he, that's, that's a narrative. It's an alluring narrative. Everyone wants Luke Skywalker, Luke Skywalker versus the Death Star, right? That is the only way to get people to discredit an entire field of science with millions of experts that actually know what they're talking about, right? It, it has to have that, that bite to it. So Graham has always been a grifter. I mean, he, he, he started with like really ancient aliens, aliens on Mars kind of stuff. And then he kind of pulled it back to sound as reasonable as possible to, to kind of lure people in. Look, he's, you know, he speaks, he speaks very well and he has these interesting ideas. And he's not arrogant. He says, what if, you know, but it's just, all of it is absolutely baseless rhetoric to sell books. That's all it is.

• 14:43Danny Jones?

  Do you think that he like people like him literally get into this stuff? Just to profit on it like say, hey, let's take this lie and let's just deceive people to make money? Or do you think that they're actually maybe interested in it? And they believe that it could be true and they want to discuss?

• 14:59Speaker 03

  I mean.

• 14:59Danny Jones?

  I mean, obviously, I think there's nuance.

• 15:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 15:01Danny Jones?

  I think there are people that do do what I just described.

• 15:03Speaker 03

  Right.

• 15:04Danny Jones?

  But.

• 15:04Speaker 03

  Billy Carson or?

• 15:06Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 15:07Speaker 03

  But it but it's the same it's the same narrative. He's just way more sensational with it with the Anunnaki and Emerald tablets and all this stuff. It's it's.

• 15:14Danny Jones?

  Who Billy?

• 15:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 15:15Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 15:15Speaker 03

  It's the same grift. Graham just tries to appear as reasonable as possible. Now, the degree to which you want to get into human psychology and how much a grifter is able to like convince themselves that they are the hero that they present themselves as? I don't know, you know, and it varies on a case by case basis.

• 15:30Danny Jones?

  Well, here's the thing. Here's the thing about Graham. And without drilling down into too much detail.

• 15:37Danny Jones?

  Like, it's absolutely possible that human beings are a lot older than science established. Science says right now, because that the the age keeps getting older. Like, there's the I've talked about this ad nauseam. We talked about it yesterday or two days ago, whatever the last podcast was. That the skull, the human skull found in China that is dated back to over a million years old. Like, there evidence keeps coming out that humans were on this planet for way starting out way earlier than we originally thought.

• 16:06Danny Jones?

  One million year old human skull, Unikson two, discovered in Hubei, China in the 1990s, has been digitally reconstructed. Oh, this was found that long ago?

• 16:17Speaker 03

  OK, but.

• 16:18Danny Jones?

  So like, there's there's like, it's.

• 16:21Speaker 03

  But you know, you realize that like hominid species have been around for millions of years.

• 16:25Danny Jones?

  That doesn't make them homo sapiens. This was this was a human. This was a homo sapien human, not a hominid.

• 16:29Speaker 03

  Similar to homo.

• 16:32Speaker 03

  Is that longi? Denisovans?

• 16:34Danny Jones?

  This isn't the is this the article, Steve? That we were talking about? I thought the article was more recent. Yeah, there it is. There's a BBC article. That was from 2025. So what so read the first paragraph of this. Let's see what it says. Um, a million year old human skull found in China suggests that our species homo sapiens began to emerge at least half a million years earlier than we thought. Researchers are claiming in a new study. Where's the new study? What does it say about the new study?

• 17:02Danny Jones?

  Discovery published in the leading scientific journal, Science, shocked the research team, which included scientists from a university in China and the UK's Natural History Museum. So it's a real study published in a scientific journal of a Homo sapiens skull that's a million years old. So like, I don't see why it's controversial to, to be open to the possibility that humans could be way older than we thought, right? Like, science evolves all the time.

• 17:30Speaker 03

  But there's a huge difference between finding a Homo sapiens specimen that's earlier than you thought, right? The, what is it? Jabeler hood is 300,000, that's what we, that was my impression of how old Homo sapiens is. But that in no way signifies that there was some kind of hyper advanced structure or civilization or all of these other very outrageous claims, right? We know that hominids have been around for millions of years, very, you know, different species. So Homo sapiens emerging earlier than, than we thought? Okay. I mean, I'm open to it. I don't know, I haven't seen that, but it doesn't, that doesn't in any way substantiate outrageous pseudo archaeological claims.

• 18:10Danny Jones?

  Right, right. And there, and when it comes to like, some of the ancient structures that Graham talks about, like the ones in Indonesia, Turkey, Egypt, and even, you know, in the UK with like Stonehenge, it's, it's like, it is, there's a reason that it's one of the seven wonders of the world, right? Is because it's like, it's almost seems like an impossible feat for ancient humans to be able to do. And, you know, that's why a lot of people, a huge subset of people in the world believe like, there's a, there's a logic gap there, right? There's like, how does this make sense? We don't know. Maybe we'll fill it in with God, or maybe we'll fill it in with aliens. I don't know, right? But like, it's like...

• 18:58Danny Jones?

  The conventional explanation for how it happened seems to be like the, you know, it doesn't seem to add up. It doesn't seem to make sense, which is why I think most people are so fascinated with this stuff and like to come up with all these crazy theories and ideas that may be bullshit. They may be bogus, but to be able to talk about them and discuss them and do, you know, podcasts on them. I don't, I don't think it's dangerous in any way.

• 19:27Speaker 03

  Well, I don't know because, I mean, it depends. First of all, I don't know. So to go site by site again, I wasn't sure what we were going to talk about here because I debunked so many things. Pseudarchaeology is one blip. We do, you know, I'm talking about anti-vaxxers and creationists and climate change and all these things. So, you know, I can't speak to specifics of each site, but to speak generally about rhetoric, you know, for, for an academic, for an archaeologist to propose something about a particular site, that's academic science. There's no problem with that. And to have a discussion within the, within the scientific community, that's happening all the time in every field. There's no problem with that. But the way that these grifters come at this, you know, oh, all

• 20:09Speaker 03

  the archaeologists are closed minded and they're idiots and they don't know about this and they don't know about that and they're denying this for whatever reason. That poisons the public against the scientific community. Right. And that is what leads to enhanced vaccine hesitancy and all these other things. Right. Because the public can't compartmentalize science. Right. They don't really think about this is what this community is doing. This is what this community is doing. They just leave with this general sense of scientists are closed minded shills in the pocket of big whatever. Right. Big archaeology is insane term. But that's, that's the narrative that, that is, that is peddled. And so what you get is a public that is increasingly distrustful towards science. And that's when you get,

• 20:51Speaker 03

  you know, you know, the public voting in administrations that put science deniers in positions of power and things like that. So, so ultimately, what I want to say is that it is, it is harmful. Now you can go in individual examples of one person saying this or that, something might be defensible. But broadly speaking, it is, it's, it is harmful.

• 21:11Danny Jones?

  I'm not in my twenties anymore. Even though I've improved my workouts and my diet over the years, I've still noticed a drop in my energy and my motivation. And then one of my friends told me it sounded like a testosterone problem and told me he was using a natural pill. And that's what led me to Mars Men. See, men begin to see a drop in testosterone around age 30. And even though your body still makes it, most of it can get bound up by a protein called SHBG. So even less of it becomes available. Mars Men is designed to help free up locked testosterone so your body can better use what it already has. No synthetics, no needles, just natural ingredients like Tongkat Oli, Shilajee, vitamin D, zinc, and boron.

• 21:53Danny Jones?

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• 22:32Danny Jones?

  Yeah, so you're saying, by and large, over time, the public has become more distrustful of mainstream science? And I would say, I would say authority in general, the government.

• 22:44Speaker 03

  Simply by using the term mainstream science, it's illustrating my point. That's not a thing.

• 22:49Danny Jones?

  Academic science? What would be the correct word to say?

• 22:51Speaker 03

  Well, I mean, there's academic science and there's the private sector, but there's no mainstream science, right? There's science, and there's pseudoscience, right?

• 22:57Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 22:57Speaker 03

  Whoever is publishing science, whether it is academic or, you know, whether it's in the private sector, whatever it is, right, that's actual legitimate science. And then there's people who lie about science on podcasts, right? And they refer to it as mainstream science.

• 23:10Danny Jones?

  And also does podcasts about, you know, scientific research that he does on psychedelics and stuff like that. He's not a mainstream scientist by any meaning of that.

• 23:17Speaker 03

  Sure, that's fair. He synthesizes chemicals. That's totally fine. You can do that. He's an interesting case, like a hobbyist turned, you know, scientist. But he's not, but he's not pushing any super outrageous claims. You know what I mean?

• 23:29Danny Jones?

  Yeah, I think, I think where it gets squirrely is when you have science and you have academic institutions and you have, that are all intertwined with governments. And then you have financial entanglements with all of that stuff. There's financial entanglements in every single aspect of science, whether it be climate science, whether it be vaccine science, or pharmaceutical companies. And, um, even, even, even geo, even like geopolitics type stuff, like, there's money and there's weird little financial incentives entwined into all of that stuff. And that's where it gets squirrely and that's where it gets hard to figure out what the truth is.

• 24:11Speaker 03

  But that can also be used, number one, that can be used as a scapegoat, right? Blah, blah, blah, in the pocket of Big Pharma. You just say that and people believe you. But number two, financial entanglements for the frauds that are pushing these narratives, right? They make money off of this stuff. So.

• 24:28Danny Jones?

  Sure. People can make money off of questioning power. If they have a podcast or they're selling advertising, I mean, selling books, maybe.

• 24:37Speaker 03

  This idea that a scientist is in this incredible position of power or is doing something incredibly lucrative. The vast majority of scientists are not paid that well, right? They're just doing what they're doing because they love to do science and discover things, right? So it's this, this way of painting the scientific community as this cabal, you know, that's beholden to blah, blah, blah, whatever. It's a global scientific community. Operating in, you know, in academia, in the private sector, under many different countries, many different, you know, political apparatus. There's no way to, that is why the consensus of the global scientific community is what you go by at all times, right? Anything that is, that is contradicting the global scientific consensus,

• 25:19Speaker 03

  that's what you want to be skeptical about. Because can you get one scientist to lie? Absolutely you can. Andrew Wakefield, a doctor.

• 25:26Danny Jones?

  Sorry, I don't mean to interrupt. I want to make sure I'm clear on this. You think anyone who is, who is questioning or skeptical of the global consensus?

• 25:33Speaker 03

  Contradicting, yeah.

• 25:35Danny Jones?

  Of the global consensus.

• 25:37Speaker 03

  The global scientific consensus, yeah.

• 25:38Danny Jones?

  What about that person? Should you be?

• 25:40Speaker 03

  You should be very skeptical of that person. Right? You should. They are making claims that contradict the entire body of scientific knowledge. It doesn't 100% guarantee that they're wrong. But it's they're very unlikely to be right. And especially if they're not scientists themselves, they're almost certainly not right. So you can you can you can take someone's claims and go, all right, well, all of the science says no. But all right, say your thing. And 99% of the time, they're trivially debunkable. Sometimes it's a little harder to debunk. You have to really dig into it. But the the idea that that that you can, you know, you have scientists all over the world. There's no way to buy off millions of scientists in different countries, all these things. It doesn't make sense economically, right?

• 26:25Speaker 03

  You can buy off one scientist, maybe a handful. So you can get papers that are, you know, bought off by special interests. But ultimately, like, these are, you know, when you talk about climate sciences and things like that, these are this is the fossil fuel industry that's trying to manufacture this stuff. Right? So again, it's it's it's pretty easy to to spot the motives with things like that, you know? Then with individual grifters, it's just it could be anything, right? Somebody's just trying to make a buck however they can, you know? But.

• 26:55Danny Jones?

  So journalism by definition is being skeptical of power and being skeptical of the people in charge who are controlling things. That is the very definition of journalism. And it is it? So are you holding the

• 27:17Danny Jones?

  the people in power as your north star of truth? Do you are you like?

• 27:20Speaker 03

  Scientists are not are not in tremendous positions of power.

• 27:24Danny Jones?

  Right?

• 27:24Speaker 03

  They're just people doing a job. Right. And so this thread starts to evaporate when you say, well, this government made the scientists do the thing, whatever. Okay. Which government? We got these vaccine studies. This one's from Sweden. This one's from China. This one's from Argentina. This one's from like, which government? What are you talking about? The global, like the Illuminati government?

• 27:44Danny Jones?

  But what about like grants, scientific grants for that scientist? One of the biggest ways scientists get funded is by grants from pharmaceutical companies. And I mean, we've had multiple in here. We had one in here, maybe two weeks ago. It was the most recent one, who was a neuro, he was a neuroscientist working in Montreal, Canada, if I remember correctly. And it was in the nineties. I think it was 1994. He got a grant from Pfizer to test a

• 28:15Danny Jones?

  neurotransmitter, some sort of drug for Alzheimer's. And he was testing the neurotransmitters. He was using PET scans to detect the chemical reaction in the brain to this drug for, to see if it was effective or whatever. And in the grant agreement, he had to sign off that if the results were negative, he could not publish them. He could not make them public. The results were overwhelmingly negative. The thing, the drug was not effective at all for Alzheimer's. It wasn't reacting. I think it was acetylcholine is what the proxy was he was looking for to see if it was reactive to this drug. And it wasn't.

• 28:54Danny Jones?

  He asked if he could publish it. They said, no, you actually sign this documents agreeing that you wouldn't do it legally. So you're legally bound to not publish this. And they ended up bringing that drug to market. And it probably made, who knows, billions of dollars. But like, the point is, these pharmaceutical companies, they spend

• 29:09Speaker 03

  I'd have to look into that though, because drugs get, don't get approved all the time, right? You have individual, you have independent institutions that are, that are running clinical trials and drugs don't get approved all the time. So this, this narrative that, that pharma is just like, every drug I want will go to market, no matter how harmful. It's just, you know, and I don't know the individual study that you're talking about.

• 29:29Danny Jones?

  I agree with you. That's not, that's probably not true. But would you, would you agree that it does happen?

• 29:33Speaker 03

  I'm not sure. I mean, you'd have to give me an individual. I mean, you just did, but I'd have to look into it. I'd have to see whether this is just a story or what it is, because there are like, this is part of the reason that it's so disastrous, what's happening under this administration, right? Under the guise of protecting public health, you just have RFK just firing half of everybody at FDA, CDC, all these institutions, and all of these deregulations, right? It's actually the precise opposite of what he pretends to stand for, right? These institutions are there to protect us from the private sector, and famously have, right? Thalidomide wasn't approved in America because the FDA wouldn't approve it, you know, this kind of stuff. That's what

• 30:12Speaker 03

  these institutions are for. So, you know, what would a pharma company do? I mean, first of all, opening itself up to all these lawsuits, or it's not like-

• 30:22Danny Jones?

  They've been fucked by lawsuits historically.

• 30:24Speaker 03

  Sure. It happens. I mean, and so it's just-

• 30:26Danny Jones?

  I mean, there's more lawsuits against pharma co- there's more money in settlements from pharmaceutical companies than any other industry, I think, on the face of, in the history of humanity.

• 30:35Speaker 03

  Possibly, and if well deserved, then great. But this painting of pharma as this unbelievable boogeyman with all the money in the world, right? Do you know that the alt-health industry is significantly larger than the pharma industry?

• 30:47Danny Jones?

  The alt-health?

• 30:48Speaker 03

  The alt-health, untested, unregulated supplement industry, right?

• 30:52Danny Jones?

  No.

• 30:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's a trillion-dollar industry.

• 30:54Danny Jones?

  It makes more money than the pharmaceutical companies.

• 30:57Speaker 03

  More money than pharma, yes.

• 30:58Danny Jones?

  You gotta find this, Steve.

• 30:59Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 31:00Danny Jones?

  Yeah, I do know that it takes, and I've had multiple people, like, scientists, drug researchers on here that have done, had grants from pharmaceutical companies, tell me that it takes between like, 10 to 12 million dollars, or, I'm sorry, 10 to 12 years to develop a drug with all the testing on rodents and all that stuff.

• 31:20Speaker 03

  It's very stringent.

• 31:21Danny Jones?

  And it can cost a billion dollars.

• 31:22Speaker 03

  Yes, and only 1 in 10 drugs make it to market.

• 31:24Danny Jones?

  Right, so they have a huge financial incentive to push those drugs out and to get those drugs out there in the marketplace, and, you know, famously, there's billions and trillions of dollars of settlements from these pharmaceutical companies having to pay people out for killing people, injuring people, lying to people with their marketing, malpractice. I mean, I don't have to look, you don't have to look any farther than, you know, the opioid crisis. So, I mean, my point is like to default, to have that be your default to want to protect or to fight for those people, you know, you like to want to be the, the bulldog that's attacking

• 32:06Danny Jones?

  people who are attacking those billionaires and those trillion dollar companies who are literally only looking out for their bottom line. And, you know, they don't give a fuck about a middle-class person who can't afford a really fancy doctor who just has to go to their checkups every, you know, every six months or whatever and has to do the bare minimum and can't afford healthy food they have to eat out. Like, they don't give a fuck. It's the insurance companies and these pharmaceutical companies that are raking in trillions of fucking dollars, right? And they have immunity.

• 32:34Speaker 03

  This is why I'm trying to tell you about the alt-health industry, right?

• 32:36Danny Jones?

  Yeah, let's look at this.

• 32:37Speaker 03

  They're making more money and they're peddling lies and selling complete. So, everything you're saying about testing and everything, these are products that are not tested on anything. They, it's not labeled as medicine, so they don't have to do anything. And there's all these, you know, so there's not only supplements that are actively harm people, because they're not tested. They don't go through any clinical trials. There's no safeguards of any kind. So, you want to talk about that one drug that slipped through clinical trials and some, you know, unforeseen, not that, you know, pharma went through the checks and balances. Here, here we go. We did these clinical trials and something didn't show up and somebody got harmed. Okay, well, lawsuit, great, go for it, get the money. But, we're talking about an alt-health industry. All of these products are completely untested. They do measurable harm and they pull people away from legitimate, uh, medical attention

• 33:22Speaker 03

  that, you know, ivermectin would be, you know, although that is a real drug, though ivermectin craze, uh, would be a great example of that.

• 33:28Danny Jones?

  So, this is, what is this, Google's AI or whatever, summing it up? The broader, this, this is what Google's saying. "The broader global wellness industry, which includes alternative health, wellness, tourism, nutrition, and personal care, is significantly larger than the pharmaceutical industry. Estimates place the global wellness market at over six trillion dollars, which is several times larger than the estimated one to two trillion global pharmas." That's the global pharmas. So, is this, this is not in the US, this is global?

• 33:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 34:01Danny Jones?

  Massive market share, the global wellness market, okay?

• 34:05Speaker 03

  I mean, think about it. How many people do you know are-

• 34:07Danny Jones?

  Can you break this down by countries?

• 34:11Danny Jones?

  Sorry, what were you saying?

• 34:12Speaker 03

  How many people do you know that are regularly taking tons of prescription drugs versus how many people do you know that follow a bunch of, uh, you know, health influencers and buy the supplements?

• 34:22Danny Jones?

  Dude, everybody I know has been on fucking Adderall since they were like 12.

• 34:25Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 34:26Danny Jones?

  And they were prescribed it.

• 34:27Speaker 03

  There, yeah, there's some oversight on that. Yeah. I mean, Adderall, I think, was probably over, over prescribed in the 90s.

• 34:33Danny Jones?

  Yeah, I think that's, I think that's a huge problem, man.

• 34:35Speaker 03

  Yeah. So th- th- this is what I'm saying, like, you know, people, oh, Dave Pharma Show, whatever. There are things that you can criticize Pharma for, right? And so, sure, sometimes they try to, uh, influence doctors to prescribe off-label, right? They'll say, well, this drug is for this, but it might work for this. Can you prescribe it for that too, right? There's a little bit of that kind of oiling going on and, and call it out. I don't care, right? I'm not here like-

• 34:58Danny Jones?

  Look dude, there's absolutely grifters in the alternative health.

• 35:01Speaker 03

  Oh, it's almost-

• 35:02Danny Jones?

  Grant Cardone, the fucking Scientologist, you know, I'm sure you're familiar with him. He fl- he brags about all of his jets. I mean, he's selling like hyperbaric chambers and cold plunges and he's calling it 10x health and like, it's just, it's just comical.

• 35:14Speaker 03

  This is what I'm saying, is that this stuff has taken off because of the cartoonish degree to which people vilify Pharma. And so, look, you know, i- if I can come back and we can like do a really, really in-depth, give me all the cases you want to talk about.

• 35:27Danny Jones?

  Right, right, right.

• 35:28Speaker 03

  Talk about every little detail.

• 35:28Danny Jones?

  We're staying high level. We're not getting in the weeds.

• 35:30Speaker 03

  Totally.

• 35:30Danny Jones?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 35:30Speaker 03

  But what I'm saying is there are things you can criticize Pharma for. Go for it. It's no problem. But the cartoonish villainization is what has, has propped up this enormous health wellness industry that is just full of grifters.

• 35:44Danny Jones?

  I'm sure that's right. I'm sure that's true.

• 35:45Speaker 03

  Complete snake oil that is actively harming people.

• 35:48Danny Jones?

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• 36:33Danny Jones?

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• 37:16Danny Jones?

  That's butcherbox.com/danny. And don't forget to use our link below so they know we sent you.

• 37:23Speaker 03

  Even the grifters themselves, right? Me and Dan Wilson did a debate against Pierre Corry and Steve Kirsch.

• 37:27Danny Jones?

  I watched that, bro.

• 37:29Speaker 03

  Yeah. And so one of them, Steve Kirsch, uh, like went blind in one eye because of a supplement that Peter McCullough, this, uh, the, the spike detox supplement. This is a supplement that is completely untested. He took it and he went blind in one eye and yet he's still on this anti-vaccine crusade, right? Pierre Corry, another guy, just made a boatload off ivermectin. Frontline doctors made a boatload off of ivermectin saying, this is this wonderful cure-all drug. You can't get COVID. Take it as a prescription every month, right? Every month, you know, keep spending money, you'll get it. And you, and just how many thousands and thousands of people

• 38:05Danny Jones?

  That's bullshit.

• 38:05Speaker 03

  Died of COVID because they didn't get the critical care they needed and then it was too late. This is, that's the real villain. So criticize pharma for the things that it does. That's fine. Like, and I'll do it with you, but this is the real villain right now in the health space.

• 38:20Danny Jones?

  I think it's fuck both of them. I think we need to attack them both. I don't think-

• 38:23Speaker 03

  Pharma makes real drugs that save lives.

• 38:26Danny Jones?

  That's true. And I'm, but I'm also sure there's a subset of the people and the people in the alternative health system are also selling shit that saves lives, right? The difference is one of them is not intertwined with the United States government, right?

• 38:39Speaker 03

  How does that make it any right? That's when you have grifters that are just selling snake oil. Why? Why does it matter if they are or are not propped up by any government, right?

• 38:47Danny Jones?

  Well, it's because it gets Well, it's because those guys, they they get a they get shuttled into the public.

• 38:58Danny Jones?

  And they they work with insurance companies and basically every run of the mill family that goes in for a routine checkup gets prescribed these things. I mean, there's people that are in the pharmaceutical industry whose job is to take physician, uh, primary care physicians out to dinner, take them out to bars, take them out to strip clubs and befriend them and convince them to use their drug. I had a guy in here who was a sales rep for Viagra in like the early 2000s and was doing this job. And it's like, your job is to get is to get them to prescribe more shit for for more symptoms. Like, we need you to prescribe this for more symptoms and prescribe it more because they get these kickbacks. There's these kickbacks they get from the insurance companies.

• 39:38Danny Jones?

  And if you really like, dig into it, it's insanely corrupt, man. And it's it's so fucked up that it's in our healthcare. It's baked into the healthcare system that is supposed to be taking care of everybody in the United States from every especially the people that are lower income, which I really pisses me off. And the fact that Okay. The United States is literally, I think, the last or second to last on the list of health health outcomes in the world of countries.

• 40:03Speaker 03

  Like, to be clear, we do need to very strongly differentiate between medical science and the health insurance industry. The health insurance industry is rotten to the core.

• 40:12Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 40:12Speaker 03

  That's a very, very different thing, right? There's a difference between what is this drug? What does it do? Who can it help? And who gets it?

• 40:20Danny Jones?

  A hundred percent.

• 40:20Speaker 03

  For free.

• 40:21Danny Jones?

  Hundred percent.

• 40:21Speaker 03

  These are very different things. And in America, the only industrialized nation did not have socialized medicine. But that's an enormous problem. But you can see how these are contradictory, uh, lines of thinking, right? The health insurance industry is terrible because it doesn't, it it disallows people from getting the medical attention and the drugs that they need. The ones that work, that actually work, the ones that are that some would criticize Big Pharma for producing in the first place, right? The health insurance industry. That's where you got the Luigi Mangione's, you get some vigilante vigilante justice going on. So I'll, I'm right there with you on, on the American health insurance industry. That's horrible stuff that's going on. That's very different from the medical science, the chemistry, the molecular biology behind.

• 41:06Speaker 03

  What is a drug? Is it going to work right? That

• 41:09Danny Jones?

  All the Hamilton nurses that are working for these companies in their labs, making, trying, trying to do their best. And I'm sure that's true. I'm sure that exists. They're trying to do their best to actually make, create good medicines. That is different from the executive sitting in the top of the fucking tower. Who are working with the insurance companies and the, and the hospitals and trying to, they're just trying to grease the wheels of money and trying to make more profit and trying to lobby. And lobby the shit out of every single congressman in, in our country.

• 41:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, get 10% more profit here.

• 41:34Danny Jones?

  It's insane.

• 41:35Speaker 03

  It, it, yeah, and I'm happy to see less of that, however we can. But ultimately it's just trying to add a little more profit on drugs that work.

• 41:45Speaker 03

  Right, these are drugs that, that help people and save lives. They're trying to squeeze, you know, some more money out of it. That's, and let's get rid of that corruption however we can. But the way you do that is by, is with regulatory bodies that, that do their job. Not with RFK firing everybody that's competent in every single, in, in all of these institutions.

• 42:03Danny Jones?

  I don't know enough about the vaccine stuff. I haven't done a deep dive on it. I've had people on the, on the show talk about it before, but I've never personally like done a deep investigation of it, especially the COVID one. I, I don't understand it. It's too complex for me. My whole problem with all the COVID stuff was all the censorship. And all of the mandate stuff. And, you know, basically I'm not down with the idea of having to wake up in the morning and turn on your TV. To find out what your governor is telling you, you're allowed to do today, including taking your kid to the park or going to the beach or whatever the fuck it is. I think that's totalitarian. I think that's a slippery slope. And I think once you give them that power, I don't think you ever get it back.

• 42:47Speaker 03

  Okay, I think it's a little bit of an exaggeration though. I mean, we, I, I live, I don't know what it was in every state, but I live in California and there was never a moment where we couldn't go to a park or, or anything where, where or proper social distancing was happening. You know, it, how, how are all of these restrictions totalitarian? Is it totalitarian to say you can only drive on the right side of the street and not the left? Right, there, there, there are guidelines in place to ensure public safety. When you have a pandemic, a global pandemic that's killing a lot of people. What are you gonna do? Nothing? Just let every people, all the people convene in every manner imaginable and spread it and kill 10 times more people? I mean, it's, something must be done.

• 43:29Danny Jones?

  Yeah, I think 12 or maybe two dozen people were arrested in New Jersey for trying to go to a church service and a synagogue. I think it was either a synagogue or a church. I can't remember, but it might have been, it might have been some sort of a temple. And the governor of New Jersey arrested them for trying to go to church. There was beaches here. The beaches here were shut down. You couldn't fucking go to the beach without getting arrested. That's, that's by the death, that is totalitarian. No matter what your excuse is for doing it, it goes against the constitution. It goes against the first amendment when in the church scenario.

• 44:08Speaker 03

  But it has nothing to do, so it's just religious people thinking that they're immune to a pandemic because God, which is ridiculous. And then they convene in large numbers, pass the virus around, and then go out and kill other people. You really can't see the other side of that?

• 44:22Danny Jones?

  I can, I can see the other side of it if, you know, I understand people were really afraid of it in the beginning. They didn't know what it was. We didn't know if this was going to be like instant death when it touched you. But, and I'm not religious by any sense of the word, but I, I understand and I respect that, you know, people have religions and they, they believe them. It brings sense of community to them and they have the right, according to the constitution and the first amendment, to be able to practice their religion and to convene. You know?

• 44:57Speaker 03

  What if your religion is to murder people? Should be allowed to do that? Like with a gun, just go around and shooting people?

• 45:05Danny Jones?

  No, of course you're not allowed to murder people.

• 45:07Speaker 03

  That's a reductio ad absurdum. But what I'm saying is that the broader good, the public health takes precedent over religious liberty, right? You're not free. Like, here's the thing. So with COVID response, there's, doing absolutely nothing is insane. Forcing everyone to remain locked in a cubicle. For forever is insane. So what do you do? Something in the middle. So if you want to have a debate about individual states' policies and exactly where it landed, you can have that debate and I don't know what every state did. I know what California did and and to me, it seemed extremely reasonable. If you lost a business during that time, my, you know, my, you have my sympathy, absolutely. I mean,

• 45:47Speaker 03

  and you can have a debate was a little too much, not quite enough, whatever. But the idea that there should be some kind that it's some kind of constitutional right for religious people to convene and spread a disease that will kill other people. It's just that's

• 46:02Danny Jones?

  Yeah, but how will it kill anyone else other than the people who were there?

• 46:04Speaker 03

  Because you get it and then you go out somewhere else and you give it to your family members and and then people were meeting, people were gathering during COVID in every state, you know? Some people were responsible about it and saw very, very few people, maybe only a couple of close friends or something. And then there were very reckless people that changed absolutely nothing about their lifestyle and those people killed other people. It's absolutely a case.

• 46:29Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 46:29Speaker 03

  Millions of people died, you know, I mean, it's

• 46:31Danny Jones?

  Yeah. What is this, Steve? This is about the alternative health industry. Pharma is 645 billion.

• 46:43Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 46:46Danny Jones?

  Number two is 99 billion.

• 46:51Danny Jones?

  That is fucking crazy.

• 46:53Speaker 03

  Right, but it was a very restrictive list that you just provided, right? Like run of the mill supplements don't even fall into that, right? If you're talking about naturopathy and stuff like that.

• 47:01Danny Jones?

  Oh, so he typed in alternative medicine.

• 47:03Speaker 03

  It's a very, well, yeah, but look at, look at what the list was of what was included there. It was very restrictive, right?

• 47:08Danny Jones?

  What else should it have included?

• 47:09Speaker 03

  The entire supplement industry.

• 47:11Danny Jones?

  Ask if this includes the supplement industry or the unregulated.

• 47:16Speaker 03

  But is it, are all supplements herbal medicine? That's not, that's not the case.

• 47:19Danny Jones?

  For sure, no.

• 47:21Speaker 03

  So, look, I mean, you, you, you don't need to convince me that pharma makes a lot of money, right? It's a gigantic industry.

• 47:27Danny Jones?

  Right, but it's certainly not bigger than the alternative in the US, according to that. We haven't included supplements yet.

• 47:31Speaker 03

  But that's why I said it's a restrictive list, but.

• 47:35Speaker 03

  But yeah, I mean,

• 47:36Danny Jones?

  Yeah, and so, so what is your, what is your position on censoring speech when it came to dissent on the whole COVID narrative and alternative medicines and stuff like that?

• 47:50Speaker 03

  I wasn't familiar with a lot of it. I mean, I don't think like, are you talking about like Twitter and stuff? Like were tweets deleted or something?

• 47:56Danny Jones?

  Tweets deleted YouTube, certainly lots of YouTube channels were deleted of practicing physicians who are talking about treating COVID and offering advice on how to treat it, how to take care of it. There was lots of doctors who had like, had, had treated thousands of patients themselves and had YouTube channels and were talking about what they were doing, what the, what the results were. And they had their YouTube channel shut down. I personally had people on this show talking about it and had those episodes taken down and gotten channel strikes because of the, the reason YouTube gave me was medical misinformation.

• 48:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 48:32Danny Jones?

  They were professionals, academics.

• 48:34Speaker 03

  But there are professionals that engage, you know, in this, that's the problem is you have doctors that get into this grift. Right? Paul American, Pierre Corey and Peter McCullough and then, you know,

• 48:42Danny Jones?

  It wasn't any of those guys.

• 48:43Speaker 03

  Avi Loeb and, you know, these, there, there are professionals that engage in grifting. So it's not always Billy Carson, some joker or whatever. Right? You can have people in the highest echelon of, of academia that, that engage in grifting. So I am like, everything that was labeled as medical misinformation was right now. The other, the other question is, should it have been censored? That's a more delicate question. I don't know. I, I'm pretty neutral on it. I, I think it's, it is for the public good that it got censored. Then, but do we want that in general? Yeah, I, I don't know. To me, I go the completely other way. I'm not really interested in what is censored or what is not censored or whatever it is. I am more interested in flooding the internet with factual information that debunks all the grifters.

• 49:28Speaker 03

  That's what I want to do. That's what I want to see.

• 49:29Danny Jones?

  Yeah. But what if you were getting censored for that?

• 49:31Speaker 03

  But I, well, in what way?

• 49:34Danny Jones?

  If, what if YouTube was, was demonetizing your content for, for attacking people that were talking about vaccines or attacking people that were talking about the pyramids?

• 49:43Speaker 03

  Well, that would be, that, that would really be shocking. Then we would have a situation where factual information is getting censored.

• 49:49Danny Jones?

  Well, those people believe that their information is factual.

• 49:51Speaker 03

  But they don't. They're grifters.

• 49:54Danny Jones?

  So, so.

• 49:55Speaker 03

  This is why you have to dig into it. So I spend a lot of space on alt health because you do like they are professionals and they everything they say it requires a lot of investigation into primary scientific literature. There have to be deep. There has to be content that does a deep dive on this stuff to show you to illustrate. And, you know, you can pick any handful of these guys and I'll come back with a presentation to convince you that they're grifters, right?

• 50:18Danny Jones?

  But do you not? Can you see the third, fourth, fifth, and sixth level domino effects of censoring content online based on maybe something legitimate, maybe, maybe negative misinformation that could harm people? Do you see what can happen down the road with that?

• 50:34Speaker 03

  So, yeah, a couple of things. Number one, I do see that because then you there's a lot of nuance, right? There, there are grifters that are perpetrating a grift. And then there are people who are echoing the grift because they fell for it. And then there's people, there's, yeah, there's a lot of gradations of that. And where do you choose to stop? You know, that, that becomes very tricky. My, my, what I, I'm under the impression that it's pretty selective and just the people that are grifting, right? I don't know. But maybe not. You said you got one episode pulled down or something like that.

• 51:02Danny Jones?

  We had multiple, we had multiple pulled down, but most of them were regarding the, most of them were regarding the, the medical stuff and the pandemic.

• 51:08Speaker 03

  Yeah. I mean, in the urgency of a global pandemic where millions of people are dying? I don't know. I mean, it's, it's, it's hard to say. But yeah, ultimately, I'm not defending censorship, right? I'm, I'm, I want to encourage the production and.

• 51:23Danny Jones?

  More speech, right? More speech.

• 51:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the problem is that it doesn't, it doesn't, you know, most professionals are not willing to take the time from their job. And, you know, you, you, it takes weirdos like me, right? There, I'm a career science communicator and entrepreneur. And there's very few people that have been able to make a living this way such that they have all of their time free to hunt down these people. And, and, and, and there's so few, there's just not enough because there's thousands of these people in every single sector of, of science and technology. And every single one of them needs a counterpart that's debunking them. So I'm trying to debunk 500 people at once. Which is why it's hard to retain, you know, every time I particularly in the medical realm,

• 52:07Speaker 03

  there's so many papers, so much stuff that you really have to dig into that it's impossible to keep all of it in the forefront of your mind at once.

• 52:13Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 52:13Speaker 03

  But when I'm doing that video, I'm reading a lot of papers and I'm speaking with a lot of professionals, I'm, I'm, you know, very thoroughly exposing that individual and then I move on to another and then another and then another. So, and, and I've seen my content move the needle a little bit on certain, on certain figures, which is what I want and which is what we need to see. We need a lot more people doing that. So I'm not here like let's silence everybody. I'm just, let's have the truth be louder than the frauds. That's what I want.

• 52:40Danny Jones?

  Yeah. Um, and then also on the, on the ivermectin stuff, I had a woman, just, it's just popping into my head, uh, Mary Bowden. Ever familiar, familiar with her?

• 52:50Speaker 03

  I have never.

• 52:50Danny Jones?

  She worked at Houston Methodist Hospital and her hospital that she worked at was the first hospital in the country to mandate the shots.

• 53:02Danny Jones?

  And she treated something like, it was more than 6,000 patients for it. She was a respiratory specialist. And, um, yeah, she treated over 6,000 people and this was starting before the shots came out. And she was using all of the, like the recommended treatment. She was using a lot of monoclonal antibodies, which she said were very effective. She was very skeptical about the ivermectin. She did start using it. Um, she did not see any negative effects for the ivermectin. I think she said that she was combining it with heavy doses of steroids, heavy doses of vitamin C. And I think it was the steroids, the vitamin

• 53:44Danny Jones?

  C, breath, breathing, breath work or something, some sort of like breathing exercises. This is her. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Let's watch this real quick. There's like, she gives herself like a, she'll do better than I do. Throw the, throw the little cans on real quick.

• 53:57Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 54:03Danny Jones?

  Just listen to like 30 seconds of this.

• 54:05Speaker 04

  You're an ENT. She normally doesn't get involved anywhere close to the issue. And guess what? She is knee deep in this.

• 54:13Danny Jones?

  Right. So, so Mary, I know we're like almost an hour into this podcast, but let's give you like a brief introduction, like your background.

• 54:21Speaker 05

  Right. So I went to Stanford. I'm an ENT. And I kind of stumbled into, I had patients coming to me because no one else would treat them. And I'm an expert in respiratory diseases. So it makes sense. And because I didn't shut my doors, people started coming to me. And initially I used, well, I tried hydroxychloroquine, but as soon as President Trump mentioned it as an option, it got shut down. And literally, the Texas State Board of Pharmacy sent out a letter prohibiting us from prescribing it. So then I moved on to monoclonal antibodies, and those worked great. People turned around very quickly, and I get unlimited supply. Well, then the government shut that down. And that was right around

• 54:59Danny Jones?

  Same thing happened here.

• 55:00Speaker 05

  When Biden mandated the shots, they shut down monoclonal antibodies. It was all, it was an orchestrated effort. And so I started using ivermectin. And I found that ivermectin worked. I was a little nervous that it wouldn't, because monoclonal antibodies worked so well. But what I did find, I found that it worked. And so I treated over 6,000 patients. When you see that high volume, I mean, that's something I'll never again experience in my career. I mean, usually I see a wide variety of issues as an ENT. Never had such a large volume of the same disease in such a short period of time. And you become an expert in it. And, you know, I started speaking out. And of course, I got, I got ridiculed, smeared, canceled. I'm still fighting for my medical license. So I put everything on the line

• 55:45Speaker 05

  to tell the truth. And I think that brings us to another point, is that, you know, all these people, all these doctors.

• 55:51Danny Jones?

  She got, she's fined tens of thousands of dollars, was threatened to take her medical license. And, you know, she was getting, you know, she wasn't invited to any dinner parties anymore in Texas. Like, she had nothing to gain from it. But, you know,

• 56:04Speaker 04

  Very convincing.

• 56:04Danny Jones?

  I understand.

• 56:05Speaker 04

  Convincing narrative.

• 56:06Danny Jones?

  It's whether it's a narrative or it's her actual experience. I mean, it's possible that she's telling the truth. But I understand that, like, none of the scientific journals have published any sort of studies that say ivermectin is effective, right? They, they, none of them do. I listened to your interview with Pierre Corey. And I've listened to other interviews. And that's what people seem to be frustrated by, is that the There's no like placebo controlled trials that say that it did work for it.

• 56:34Speaker 03

  Right. They're always using very shady trials, very, you know, small, small cohort, no controls. The first one was just like high, like high dose in vitro, which is not applicable to, you know, to a human system. It just, the, the kernel that they used and then, and then expanded upon was, was not legitimate. And then mountains of legitimate science is done after the fact because of the fervor that crops up. To demonstrate conclusively that it is not effective, both ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine. And so all you can do, all you can do against this mountain of science is performed all over the world, all these different countries, all over the place. Is just go big, giant conspiracy pharma paid the blah, blah, blah, whatever. That's all you can do.

• 57:17Danny Jones?

  But what about people like her who treated over 6,000 patients and she did say that it worked in combination with vitamin C, monoclonal antibodies, steroids, all that.

• 57:24Speaker 03

  Okay. So what's the difference between that and it didn't work at all and other things worked? You know, like that, that's, that's not how you do science, right? You don't go, I gave them five things and they got better. So this one must've worked. Right. That's, that's not how, that's not how science works, you know?

• 57:40Danny Jones?

  Sure.

• 57:41Speaker 03

  You have to do very rigorous trials where you control every single variable, right? You, this is how you test drugs.

• 57:48Danny Jones?

  So do you ban ivermectin? Is that the answer?

• 57:50Speaker 03

  Well, first of all, absolutely not, because it's a legitimate drug.

• 57:53Danny Jones?

  Should she be allowed to give it to prescribe it to her patients?

• 57:55Speaker 03

  I don't know how, how bureaucratic stuff works, but I definitely would look down on any doctor that was prescribing it for COVID. Because it was shown to not work conclusively. That and hydroxychloroquine, and that is when those drugs enter the alt health space. That is, so that's what I, what I wanted to say about that.

• 58:12Danny Jones?

  I mean, she wasn't on like ivermectin's payroll or anything like that. She didn't make it.

• 58:16Speaker 03

  Well, okay. First of all, you don't know that. You have all of these, you know, for the frontline doctors, these organizations. I don't know who that person is. I don't know what her affiliations are. It's very easy to just present yourself as the, you know, the underdog fighting the big bad system. But all of these people, so the earlier, we're looking at the list of alt health versus pharma.

• 58:34Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 58:34Speaker 03

  Ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine are pharmaceutical drugs that have purpose.

• 58:39Speaker 03

  Right, ivermectin, great Nobel Prize winning drug that eradicated a particular kind of parasite, does fuck all against COVID, but it's a great drug that has a purpose. But then, when you take it and you're prescribing it for something that it does nothing against, that's alt-health. That's when you get into this alt-health wellness space and you have all these doctors, frontline doctors, that are getting rich because they're telling people, "You don't do what the big bad government says. I'll send you this in the mail. Every month you give me 90 bucks or whatever and I'll send you this in the mail." That qualifies as alt-health. And there are a lot of people who got really, really rich off of that.

• 59:14Danny Jones?

  Yeah, well, that's shitty. When you're starting a pyramid scheme on selling ivermectin, you're a dirt...

• 59:17Speaker 03

  Not necessarily a pyramid scheme, but just...

• 59:19Danny Jones?

  Whatever it is. Whatever sort of fucking recurring shit.

• 59:21Speaker 03

  These people are grifters.

• 59:22Danny Jones?

  It is. Yeah, I would agree with you there. But at the same time, like, again, I can't for a second bring myself to be able to defend companies like Pfizer who are fucking sponsoring every single news station and newscast that's telling you that we have to stay indoors, you have to go get your shot, do all this stuff. By the way, we're sponsored by Pfizer. But trust me, even if they were paying us millions of dollars, we would still tell you the truth if we thought the stuff was bad. Like, get the fuck out of here.

• 59:52Speaker 03

  Okay, but stay indoors and get a vaccine, what's wrong with either of those things? What's bad about that messaging?

• 59:59Danny Jones?

  Well, the question is, do you trust the media and do you trust the government? Do you trust these trillion-dollar corporations? Like, if you look at history and you read history, go look at the Iraq War. Do we trust these people?

• 1:00:13Speaker 03

  Okay, geopolitics is completely different.

• 1:00:16Danny Jones?

  Well, it's the news. It's the news is selling it to us.

• 1:00:18Speaker 03

  Sure. But the fact remains that money can't change the laws of physics or the laws of molecular biology and what a disease... It can't change what a pathogen is and how it kills you and what will cure it and what will defend... Right? These are all realities of the natural world. And this is what scientists seek to study. So, you can find a media distortion, you can find a special interest group, you can find these things. But ultimately, what a disease is and what cures it. Cannot be manipulated in that way, right? And you have scientists all over the world that are studying this stuff. That's why, again, I'm going to keep bringing it back to this. The consensus of the global scientific community is what you go by.

• 1:01:02Speaker 03

  When you have somebody that's contradicting that, you want to be skeptical of that person. Right, so it's, it, it becomes, ivermectin doesn't work against COVID, not because Pfizer said so. It's because all of the scientists all over the world say so, right? There's a big difference there.

• 1:01:18Danny Jones?

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• 1:02:01Danny Jones?

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• 1:02:43Danny Jones?

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• 1:02:48Speaker 03

  So I just question it when, when most of the scientists are paid by the pharmaceutical companies.

• 1:02:53Danny Jones?

  But they're not.

• 1:02:54Speaker 03

  How do we know? I mean,

• 1:02:55Danny Jones?

  most scientists I've talked to have gotten grants from pharmaceutical companies.

• 1:02:58Speaker 03

  We're talking about millions of scientists.

• 1:03:00Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:03:01Speaker 03

  We're talking about an unbelievable, it doesn't make sense.

• 1:03:04Danny Jones?

  Who pays them to study this stuff? Who pays them to study the drugs?

• 1:03:07Speaker 03

  I mean, all kinds of things. I mean, you'd have to identify an individual study and we would find the source of the funding there.

• 1:03:16Danny Jones?

  If you were to, if you were to broad brush it, like by and large, most scientists, say there's a fucking billion scientists in the world that are studying, that are researching drugs, who pays them to do it?

• 1:03:25Speaker 03

  Whatever government they're working under.

• 1:03:26Danny Jones?

  Do you think the government pays for it?

• 1:03:28Speaker 03

  I mean, largely.

• 1:03:30Danny Jones?

  If it's a, if it's a, right, maybe if it's a government or a country that has national or socialized medicine, right? But certainly not in the United States. United States medicine is.

• 1:03:42Speaker 03

  No, still, yeah, still, I mean, a large percentage of grants are from the government. And I mean, it's, we're talking about, you know, medical science in general and molecular biology in general, right? It's, when you're looking at what viruses do and what bacteria do and what a drug does and what an antibody does and all these things, this is just general science, right? And so you can have clinical trials on a drug. That's, that's very different from scientists who are just performing general research on pathogens and, you know, epidemiology and this kind of stuff. So, yeah, a lot of government grants and, you know, there are private corporations that are also utilizing profits to do research. So money's coming from every, I mean, it's just, it's very easy to just go money, money, money. Okay, money came from a thing.

• 1:04:27Danny Jones?

  It's like, it's the most, the number one common denominator with most of this stuff. And it doesn't have to be just like financial incentives. It can also be like personal vendettas.

• 1:04:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:04:36Danny Jones?

  I heard you talk with Hamilton about this and I've heard that he's talked with me about this on this podcast, is there's like a really famous psilocybin study or MDMA study where there was this rich family who literally paid millions of dollars to buy podcasts and propaganda to sabotage this MDMA study and like the public perception of MDMA.

• 1:04:58Speaker 03

  It's very interesting because a bunch of people left.

• 1:05:01Danny Jones?

  It's a fact.

• 1:05:02Speaker 03

  Comments saying that that was, that that was not true. And I didn't look into it further. So I'm not sure. Yeah, I don't know. I mean.

• 1:05:11Danny Jones?

  There's a guy I've had on the show many times. He's a, he's a psychedelic, he's a journalist and he really, he follows all the psychedelic stuff, all the, he follows like.

• 1:05:20Danny Jones?

  Every single psychedelic study, every, I mean, he's very skeptical of the whole industry. Um, and he was a part of a really early psychedelic study in like the nineties, I think.

• 1:05:28Speaker 03

  I don't think anyone, there's not too many people that are denying just by and large that psychedelics have no, have no therapeutic application. I think the vast majority of the scientific community is on board with that.

• 1:05:39Danny Jones?

  The story was, the story was with this, on this specific case was, um, and they threatened to sue Hamilton over this because he exposed it. Was that there was this study that was going on with MDMA. And there was this guy who was really old. He was a Holocaust survivor. Some of the girls that were involved with this study somehow met him and started giving him MDMA. And he's like turned his life around. He was like in his late nineties and he was loving it. He was loving these girls. I'm sure they were like banging him or whatever. And they were also giving him MDMA.

• 1:06:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:06:10Danny Jones?

  And he's like, fuck, I love this. You got, how much money you guys want to sponsor your MDMA study?

• 1:06:15Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:06:15Danny Jones?

  And the granddaughter of this guy was like, what the fuck? He's giving these MDMA whores my, my, my inheritance.

• 1:06:22Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:06:23Danny Jones?

  So she decided to take a bunch of her money to sabotage their stuff. So like, it's not like some big cabal. It's not some big organization that's just trying to make profit. It's just a personal vendetta, but like it's about money at the end of the day.

• 1:06:38Speaker 03

  Yeah. And there are frauds within, uh, you know, within the medical establishment as well. Andrew Wakefield bribed half a million pounds to pen the, the Lancet study. Andrew Wakefield penned the 1990s Lancet study that, that, that started the whole vaccines autism craze that will never go away.

• 1:06:54Danny Jones?

  I don't know anything about that.

• 1:06:56Speaker 03

  Oh, it's a, it's a whole saga. I mean, he's like, you know, the, the most major figure, uh, in the anti-vax movement. Uh, sort of catalyzed from the mid nineties, much of what is happening now. But that's what I'm saying. He was a doctor. He was a gastroenterologist. Like it's possible to, it, it's, it's humans. It's society. There's people, there's politics, there's stuff going on at all times, right? There's money over here. There's money over there. That's just life. That's just reality. You know what I mean?

• 1:07:24Danny Jones?

  Sure.

• 1:07:24Speaker 03

  But, uh,

• 1:07:25Danny Jones?

  That's human nature.

• 1:07:25Speaker 03

  Yeah. The problem is, and, and there's no problem in going, This individual instance of fraud occurred. Let's expose that and let's dish out some justice there. The problem is when you have the alt health space just relentlessly spinning this overblown villainization of pharma. While they are the one, while they are making enormous amounts of money peddling snake oil. I mean, it's that, that's the main take home message here.

• 1:07:52Danny Jones?

  I mean, this is gonna happen. It's gonna happen. We know that you're gonna get bad apples. It's like, would you rather have three news channels that are feeding you all your information? And you can't get it from anywhere else? Or would you rather it be open season where everyone can go out and find information? And you have to use your brain to figure out what's bullshit and what's good.

• 1:08:06Speaker 03

  When the latter is the situation that we have now. And unfortunately, an unbelievable percentage of the media landscape is, is lies. So yeah, it's a good point, right? Yeah. When you had three news channels, does that mean that there was? And it was very, very respectable fact based journalism. Doesn't mean there's no propaganda, right? Of course, there can be propaganda that's just like, there's a whole genocide happening over here that no one is talking about.

• 1:08:32Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:08:32Speaker 03

  And you'll never know about it because it's not on the news. A hundred percent. That's absolutely was the case. And now you can't hide a genocide. Everyone's got a phone and they're filming it and showing you.

• 1:08:42Danny Jones?

  Right. Which I want to talk about. That is probably the most unifying thing in this country right now.

• 1:08:45Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 1:08:45Danny Jones?

  What did you just have pulled up, Steve?

• 1:08:51Danny Jones?

  For drug research, where does the majority, what is it? Where does the majority of funding come from? Government grants, pharmaceutical companies, or anything else? What does it say?

• 1:09:02Speaker 06

  It says that private, private money usually starts the research, but then pharmaceuticals take it over.

• 1:09:08Danny Jones?

  Okay. Uh, for total, in total dollar terms, the majority usually comes from pharmaceutical and biotech companies, not government grants. In the US, CBO, whatever that is, reported that the pharmaceutical industry spent 83 billion on research and development in 2019. And a national academics NCBI review says private industry and the sector, or says private industry as a sector was the largest overall investor in biomedical research.

• 1:09:37Speaker 03

  Yeah. So pharmaceutical companies invest in R and D to develop drugs. Right. That's what that's right.

• 1:09:42Danny Jones?

  Right. Exactly.

• 1:09:43Speaker 03

  They make drugs. That's the business. It's the business of making drugs. It takes a lot of money to make drugs.

• 1:09:47Danny Jones?

  Right. Well, what was the question though? Was, is, the question was what?

• 1:09:50Speaker 03

  Well, you were asking about where all the funding comes from for, for medical.

• 1:09:54Danny Jones?

  And drug research. Oh, right. Obviously, yeah. Okay, that question is in drug research, obviously, the money would come from the companies that are selling the drugs.

• 1:10:02Speaker 03

  But I think what you wanted to talk about is where academic research is, funding for academic research is coming from in anything that is tangential pertains to.

• 1:10:10Danny Jones?

  The correct question would be, what academic scientists, how much, what percentage of funding?

• 1:10:18Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:10:19Danny Jones?

  For science in, you can't really lump it into like science, that's too broad.

• 1:10:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, if you're talking about science in general.

• 1:10:27Danny Jones?

  The type of science you'd be talking about for this kind of stuff.

• 1:10:29Speaker 03

  Even that is difficult if you're just talking about medical science in general, or something that would be.

• 1:10:33Danny Jones?

  Medical science, that's a good one.

• 1:10:35Speaker 03

  I mean, I don't know, it's hard to say, but I mean, obviously, I mean, it's, it's very, very broad, right?

• 1:10:42Danny Jones?

  And you'd also have to narrow it down to the US, medical science in the US.

• 1:10:45Speaker 03

  But scientists, that's the thing about academic science, is that much or most of academic science is just, let's figure shit out. How does thing, how do things work? What is this made of? What does it do? Right? Academic, the point of academic science, which is why it's so tragic that the funding for science is being slashed under this administration, is you are, it's scientists that want to figure, figure stuff out and know how everything works and and find cool new applica, you know, like, they're doing the foundational work that then others can go in industry and say, well, this, they just figured out how to, that there's this material. What, what can we do with this material? And we can make this thing or whatever. That's what's incredible about academic science, right? When you're in the private sector, everything's obviously very profit oriented.

• 1:11:29Speaker 03

  And so to sacrifice academic science, which is what we're seeing, seeing right now, you're, you're losing that foundational layer of like, just, well, what, you know, what happens if we try this? Or, you know, what, what's this thing all about? It's the, the true exploratory science is largely happening in, in academia.

• 1:11:46Danny Jones?

  Do you find anything, Steve? Do you type in medical science?

• 1:11:50Danny Jones?

  Oh, it's still searching. Chat GPT is going slow for us. Yeah, and, you know, just again.

• 1:11:58Danny Jones?

  Some of the history that, some of the history of America and like the hit this, the science that has been done in America for nefarious reasons and nefarious terms is once you learn about that and you're exposed to that, it's really hard to get that out of your head, you know, and that might be human nature.

• 1:12:16Speaker 03

  Tuskegee, like you're gonna go to that one probably.

• 1:12:18Danny Jones?

  Maybe Tuskegee is one, maybe um, Operation Paperclip is another one, maybe uh, the Manhattan Project is a good, good example of top, the top scientists in the world, including Nazi ones.

• 1:12:29Speaker 03

  Built a bomb and killed people with it, I mean.

• 1:12:31Danny Jones?

  Right, like that's, that's the goal here is to kill people.

• 1:12:34Speaker 03

  But, but, yeah, no, I mean.

• 1:12:36Danny Jones?

  And look, you can't broad brush everything with that, obviously, but it's like when you're, when you learn about all this stuff, it's overwhelming.

• 1:12:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, but there, so there's a couple of things here. So number one, we do want to differentiate between the, the veracity of science and what people do with it. So there are those in, in that space that want to call in, call into question the validity of science. There's nothing wrong with the validity of the science that made the bomb. That's why the bomb worked, right? So they, they figured out a bunch of physics and then they made a bomb with it. That's the.

• 1:13:04Danny Jones?

  I'm not saying whether it's valid or not, I'm just questioning the motive.

• 1:13:06Speaker 03

  Sure, sure, sure. But no, but there are a lot of people who just, you know, all, you know, physicists are all, it's all fake and all this stuff, right? So that's.

• 1:13:12Danny Jones?

  There's people that think nukes are fake, that thinks they are, they aren't real. You know that? Are you aware of that one? You gotta check that one out.

• 1:13:17Speaker 03

  There's just, at this point, nothing surprises me on the, on the internet. But, but then, so putting that aside, just, yeah, people do bad things. In the world, there are people that do bad things and there are people who use science to do bad things. And I mean, all we can do is point out all of these instances and where malfeasance is occurring and, you know, shine a spotlight on it, you know, try, you know, you know, try to educate people on what has happened in the past and then try to empower regulatory bodies to minimize that happening in, in, in the future, right? That's why we need a robust FDA. We need a robust, we need these institutions to be able to do their job. Um, you know, we have this constant seesaw between the government and the private sector.

• 1:13:56Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:57Speaker 03

  And that is unfortunately how, how the world works.

• 1:14:00Danny Jones?

  Seesaw, it's a, it's a marriage.

• 1:14:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, uh, it's a very one-sided marriage at the moment.

• 1:14:05Danny Jones?

  Look at all the AI people. Look at Peter Thiel, all these people that are...

• 1:14:08Speaker 03

  Maniac.

• 1:14:09Danny Jones?

  And, you know, Alex Karp, talking about dropping fentanyl-based urine on his enemies. Like, this is the people that are getting all this money, like billions of dollars from the US government and like literally probably mostly responsible for getting him in power, grooming JD Vance, like all this crazy stuff.

• 1:14:23Speaker 03

  Yeah, and, and, and head of EPA in the, in the pocket of, you know, fossil fuel lobby. Like, just, you have people being put at the heads of institutions that are antithetical to the purpose of the institution, right? So this is why...

• 1:14:35Danny Jones?

  It's rotten to its core.

• 1:14:36Speaker 03

  It's rotten to its core, and that's why, like, government bad, government bad, government bad. Okay, we have the private sector. Right now, the seesaw is that the private sector has undue influence on, on the government. So you, so you have, you know, a lot of the, a lot of the anti-establishment narratives going on right now are very like pro-private sector, right? The government sucks, academia is communism, all this stuff. We need to give all the money to Elon Musk because he's a brilliant man that knows what to do. In the meantime, that's the point of Doge, is to go in and just dismantle all the...

• 1:15:05Danny Jones?

  Really? You think you see that?

• 1:15:07Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 1:15:07Danny Jones?

  People...

• 1:15:08Speaker 03

  So, so, so, so the propaganda that is directly from the oligarchy is of this flavor, right? Academic institutions are woke indoctrination camps and all the blah, blah, blah, and the, you know, everybody sucks there and don't go to college and everything from a college sucks. So it's very pro-private sector, right? It's very deliberate, right? That's why, that's why we're seeing this movement towards dismantling regulatory bodies and giving more and more and more power and influence to the private sector. So, you know, that's not, I'm not saying government good, right? There, there's a, you don't want a totalitarian government that, that wreaks havoc on the private sector. But right now, it's not the case, right? We have the other situation where the private sector has too much influence on government, where you can buy politicians and make them, you know, do what you want.

• 1:15:54Danny Jones?

  And they're also using their influence to trade stocks because they know what's going to happen. They know the laws that are going to change is the policies that are going to change and they're making the rules. They can predict the future. I mean, similar to like you see with some of this crazy insider trading on this fucking straight a Hormuz shit right now.

• 1:16:08Speaker 03

  Sure. Yeah, I know very little about it, but I instantly believe everything that you're saying. But I mean, so it's a tricky situation, right? Because governments have to exist. We need governments as a society, as a civilization. But the trick is, you know, when you see an administration that is appointing all these people to these cabinet posts, right? That's it takes a very large grassroots political movement to number one, recognize the problem, right? Anybody who can't see that RFK is a nightmare. That's very problematic, right? That society can't can't unanimously agree that RFK is a nightmare.

• 1:16:43Danny Jones?

  I don't see how he's a nightmare.

• 1:16:44Speaker 03

  Okay, he's completely 100% antithetical to public health. Everything about him. He is if one of those insane TikTok wellness influencers became the head of HHS. That's that's that's what he is. Right? So

• 1:16:58Danny Jones?

  He's not a TikTok influencer. He's been suing public health people for for decades.

• 1:17:04Speaker 03

  No. Yeah. One of his main sources or his main source of income is lawsuits. He gets finder's fees for lawsuits, but none of those lawsuits actually demonstrate harm from vaccines or anything. They're all just

• 1:17:15Danny Jones?

  Well, not just vaccines, but also glyphosate, right? Wasn't there a guy?

• 1:17:19Speaker 03

  He rolled right over for Monsanto. He's deregulating. He's deregulating for all these. He waves this flag of like, I'm a champion of the people. He absolutely is actually doing the opposite. He's I mean, not only is he firing everybody from all these institutions, CDC and FDA, FDA that have any

• 1:17:35Danny Jones?

  He's firing everybody.

• 1:17:36Speaker 03

  I mean, not everybody. I mean, yeah, like, like in thousands upon thousands of layoffs.

• 1:17:40Danny Jones?

  Maybe he's just like fumigating all the fucking corruption out of there.

• 1:17:42Speaker 03

  No, he's no, he's making it corrupt by fumigating out all the legitimate scientists.

• 1:17:46Danny Jones?

  Yeah, but how do you know? How do you know he's not fuming? How do you know he's not getting the corruption out of there?

• 1:17:49Speaker 03

  Because the output of these institutions is now exclusively medical misinformation. Right? That's what's happening now is you have you have never before had medical misinformation of this degree coming out of official state channels.

• 1:18:01Danny Jones?

  Like which one?

• 1:18:02Speaker 03

  It's never happened before. CDC. CDC is no longer

• 1:18:04Danny Jones?

  What is the CDC saying that's medical information?

• 1:18:06Speaker 03

  RFK, RFK tells Trump, I'm gonna figure out the cause of autism because of what's gonna happen. And then he goes on and say, it's Tylenol, we figured out it's Tylenol, all this crap, you know.

• 1:18:16Danny Jones?

  Is that not true?

• 1:18:17Speaker 03

  No, of course it's not true, right? And then he had to-

• 1:18:19Danny Jones?

  We know, how do we know it's not true?

• 1:18:21Speaker 03

  Because plenty of studies have been done and then more after this insane accusation. And then they got sued, of course, by, by, by, by the makers of Tylenol.

• 1:18:29Danny Jones?

  Of course they did.

• 1:18:30Speaker 03

  So it's just like, it's, it's a non-stop circus side show of a guy who definitely has no idea what he's talking about. I mean, everything the guy said, I mean, he's like an HIV denialist, you know, all like really insane stuff. We've never seen this before in, in, in HHS or in, in, you know, NIH. And then Jay Bhattacharya is right behind him, also just complete fraud. And so this is what you have, you have stacking, you, you have all these institutions being stacked with loyalists that are running this, the, the narrative of, of this administration. And we need to, the, the core issue is getting the public aware that that is what is happening. Because then you can vote people out of office and then you can vote people into office that will put credible people at the helm of these institutions.

• 1:19:14Speaker 03

  And you can very slowly start to rehabilitate this.

• 1:19:17Danny Jones?

  What did you find, what are you looking for?

• 1:19:20Speaker 06

  He's an HIV denialist.

• 1:19:21Speaker 03

  He, he is an HIV-

• 1:19:22Danny Jones?

  Well, of course, Google's gonna say this, bro. What did he actually say about it?

• 1:19:30Danny Jones?

  Oh my God, that is unreadable.

• 1:19:34Speaker 03

  I mean, so-

• 1:19:36Danny Jones?

  Okay, what is this, claims on HIV/AIDS causation. In his 2021 book, In The Real Anthony Fauci And Other Public Statements, Kennedy has argued that AIDS is not exclusively caused by HIV. He has asserted that his initial AIDS epidemic was linked to the use of poppers in the gay community rather than the virus. So he's saying AIDS is not the exclusive cause, which that makes him an HIV denialist.

• 1:19:59Speaker 03

  Of course it does. HIV is, causes AIDS, right?

• 1:20:03Danny Jones?

  Well, he's not denying that HIV also causes AIDS, he's saying it's not the exclusive cause.

• 1:20:08Speaker 03

  Okay, but what he's saying is absolutely insane and it doesn't make any sense at face value anyway, right? It is, it is, it is a disease caused by a virus, caused by the HIV virus. That's what it is. This is well known.

• 1:20:20Danny Jones?

  But he's saying it's also other things, right?

• 1:20:22Speaker 03

  But, but it's not.

• 1:20:23Danny Jones?

  How do you know that it's not?

• 1:20:24Speaker 03

  Because it's caused by virus. It's a viral disease.

• 1:20:27Danny Jones?

  Have you talked to AIDS experts on this?

• 1:20:29Speaker 03

  Dude, come on, man. The every, like, this is such a laughing stock talking point, right? We, look at where we have come.

• 1:20:34Danny Jones?

  I don't know jack shit about AIDS, just to be clear.

• 1:20:35Speaker 03

  Look at where we have come with AIDS treatment. Why do you think that whereas AIDS was a death sentence in the eighties and nineties, that now it is not? That through the use of various therapeutics, it's very, right? Because we know what, how it's caused. We, we have drugs that target every single step in the replication cycle of the virus that, that, you know, are inhibitors of this step and this step. We understand very, very well. This is what I'm talking about. When you say, when you, so what's alarming is what you just did, I want everyone listening to, to not do that, right? To you, what you have to have is this increase, this intense skepticism. When somebody like RFK says something like that, poppers cause AIDS. This is insane because, and if you don't know a lot about AIDS, and you, but

• 1:21:19Speaker 03

  you can look into it, right? You can look into what these drugs do, how they affect the replicative cycle of the virus, how well we understand HIV and AIDS.

• 1:21:28Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:28Speaker 03

  And that's why we are able to treat it so effectively.

• 1:21:30Danny Jones?

  Well, here's the thing. I think that you should be skeptical of everything. I think that anyone who's making the rules, anyone who is in charge, the principal of your school, or the people that are making the laws in your country, you should absolutely hold their feet to the fire and question what they're doing and try to hold them accountable for things. Whether that be the people who got us into the pandemic, or the people who are claiming, whether true or not, to get us out of some sort of fucked up system that we've been in for 50, 60 years.

• 1:22:10Speaker 03

  That's fine.

• 1:22:11Danny Jones?

  Right? And so, so, right. And I think the problem here is, which is human nature, people see. Evidence of big bad guy, right here, new guy comes in, he must be the savior. It's binary. Well, the, the, the reality of it is this, your savior that might, may be coming in. There may be some questionable things. There may be some fucking corruption in there too. So you can't just automatically ignore all skepticism for the newcomer that's coming in.

• 1:22:37Speaker 03

  You're also immaculately, immaculately describing whatever jerk was on Joe Rogan last week. Right? What you just described is exactly what I want people to do to the person feeding them these narratives on whatever podcast they're watching. Right? Approach that person with skepticism.

• 1:22:53Danny Jones?

  What do you mean jerk that was on Joe Rogan? What do you mean?

• 1:22:55Speaker 03

  I'm saying whatever fraud was on Joe Rogan last week, telling them this narrative about COVID or ivermectin, or whatever it is. Right? Approach that person with extreme skepticism.

• 1:23:04Danny Jones?

  Everybody you should approach with extreme skepticism.

• 1:23:06Speaker 03

  Yeah. I mean, when, when you approach the entire body of scientific knowledge with skepticism, I mean, you can do that if you want, but then what you inevitably doing is you start learning science. Right? If you're like, how does AIDS work? Great. How does AIDS work? Everybody Google that and learn how AIDS works. And then you will see that what RFK said is insane. Right? So, fine. I mean, I want to encourage, if you come to learning from a, from a position of skepticism, fine, I don't care. Do, whether you're like, I want to see how AIDS works, or whether you're like, I bet it's not true. Let me learn it, you know? Whatever, learning is learning. But the, the true skepticism should be applied to whatever institution you're talking about, but also whoever is feeding you these narratives, these, just at this point, it's such a trope, the anti-establishment narrative. You have the big bad whatever, fill in the blank.

• 1:23:51Speaker 03

  I'm the truth teller on the podcast that's whistleblowing or whatever it is. The people that are making these rounds on the podcasts, right? You have to scrutinize what they're saying. You have to follow up. You have to look at, you know? And, uh, so.

• 1:24:04Danny Jones?

  Of course.

• 1:24:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:24:05Danny Jones?

  But why do you pick on Joe Rogan so much?

• 1:24:07Speaker 03

  Because he just almost exclusively platforms frauds.

• 1:24:12Speaker 03

  You know.

• 1:24:13Danny Jones?

  Exclusively?

• 1:24:15Speaker 03

  Anytime we're talking about in like with medical stuff and like with the pseudo archaeology stuff, right? He just very, very, very heavily leans in that direction.

• 1:24:24Danny Jones?

  I think he just talks to people that he's really interested in genuinely. I don't think he, I don't think he's trying to deceive anybody. I mean.

• 1:24:31Speaker 03

  I probably don't think that, but.

• 1:24:35Danny Jones?

  There's no way.

• 1:24:35Speaker 03

  But he may not, but it doesn't matter because.

• 1:24:37Danny Jones?

  He doesn't have anyone telling him who to have on a show like he does it all himself.

• 1:24:40Speaker 03

  Sure, but he, but he likes these stories, right? He likes these stories of big, bad, whatever. And I'm telling, I'm whistleblowing. He just likes.

• 1:24:48Danny Jones?

  You're whistleblowing?

• 1:24:49Speaker 03

  He's, no, the guest is whistleblowing.

• 1:24:51Danny Jones?

  Oh, the guest is whistleblowing. Okay. Oh, I see what you're saying.

• 1:24:53Speaker 03

  Right. He has on somebody that's like the big, bad establishment and I have the super secret awesome truth, right? He just, anyone who presents that narrative, he is implicit, he is inherently biased towards that narrative. And so I, you know.

• 1:25:05Danny Jones?

  He was fucked by, and he was smeared by CNN during the whole COVID thing. When they put him on there and they like photoshopped and made him yellow and said, look at this guy. He's taking horse dewarmer. When he literally said, he goes, I took vitamin C, NAD, monoclonal antibodies, ivermectin, and a laundry list of other things. And he's like, it's like they were upset that he, that he did well. And then they had Jay Bhattacharya come on his show like a couple of weeks later, uh, who was like the head scientist at CNN or whatever. He goes, and you know, you should get your COVID shot, Joe. He's like, no, why? He's like, I just had COVID and recovered last week. I have natural immunity. And then Jay goes, oh yeah, I guess you got a good point.

• 1:25:40Speaker 03

  Well, I don't.

• 1:25:41Danny Jones?

  You know, like.

• 1:25:42Speaker 03

  Well, Jay also is a massive fraud, but not for, for, for suggesting that people get vaccinated. But, um, yeah, so, but I don't, yeah, they're like horse dewarmer. I mean, it is that, but it.

• 1:25:52Danny Jones?

  It is also used for animals. Yeah.

• 1:25:54Speaker 03

  It's used for, it's all, it's, it's used for humans for a very particular parasite. So.

• 1:25:58Danny Jones?

  I mean, billions of uses on humans.

• 1:26:00Speaker 03

  Not billions of use. No, essentially mainly this one use of, of this, of this particular parasite.

• 1:26:05Danny Jones?

  But it's been used billions of times, like since it came out.

• 1:26:09Speaker 03

  Sure, but the but so the other side of this is that many, many, many people died because they were convinced that ivermectin cured COVID, which it does not. And the the reason that this narrative gained traction is through podcasts, primarily through Joe Rogan, a few others Brett Weinstein was pushing this crap as well, like a bunch of people were in the podcast space were pushing this narrative and people died because of it. So, okay, like the thing of like they photoshopped his face. I mean, yeah, I think, yeah, maybe he didn't look that way. I don't know.

• 1:26:40Danny Jones?

  I don't know why they did that. They perpetually lied through the whole thing.

• 1:26:42Speaker 03

  Okay, so so they're doing a clickbait thing too. But, you know, I mean, the media landscape has a lot of clickbait, but the difference is

• 1:26:51Danny Jones?

  He's sponsored by people, but he's not sponsored by Pfizer.

• 1:26:53Speaker 03

  Sure, that's

• 1:26:54Danny Jones?

  Did you see the montage of every single news station brought to you by Pfizer? Like, there's montages of it. Have you seen it?

• 1:27:00Speaker 03

  No, but that's that's fine.

• 1:27:01Danny Jones?

  It's crazy.

• 1:27:02Speaker 03

  But Joe is Joe is sponsored by nobody and yet is constantly pushing disinformation, not himself deliberately, but through through his guests. Right? So who this is the problem.

• 1:27:13Danny Jones?

  He's an independent journalist is what he is. He's having people on who he thinks he's reading books, he's listening to podcasts, and he's doing like five podcasts a week. This is it. Watch this.

• 1:27:25Speaker 03

  I mean, you don't need to convince me. It's fine.

• 1:27:29Speaker 07

  This letter report brought to you by Pfizer. Today's countdown to the royal wedding is brought to you by Pfizer. And now a CBS Sports update brought to you by Pfizer. Meet the press data download brought to you by Pfizer. This portion of CBS This Morning sponsored by Pfizer.

• 1:27:46Speaker 06

  On how to find the hidden sugars in the American family diet. Sponsored by Pfizer.

• 1:27:51Speaker 07

  Making a difference. Brought to you by Pfizer. CNN Tonight. Brought to you by Pfizer. Early Start. Brought to you by Pfizer. Friday night on Aaron Burnett Out Front. Brought to you by Pfizer. This week with George Stephanopoulos is brought to you by Pfizer.

• 1:28:00Danny Jones?

  I mean, it's comical. It's comical.

• 1:28:02Speaker 03

  Look, Pfizer is a brand and they want brand recognition and they sponsor stuff.

• 1:28:06Danny Jones?

  In the middle of pandemic, pushing out a vaccine that's going to be mandated to everyone or else you lose your job.

• 1:28:10Speaker 03

  Well, okay, so.

• 1:28:13Speaker 03

  How, okay.

• 1:28:14Danny Jones?

  We can get off this topic.

• 1:28:16Speaker 03

  No, we'll come back to that because I just want to finish the thing I was saying. Brought to you by Pfizer does not equal lie and not brought to you by Pfizer does not equal truth.

• 1:28:24Danny Jones?

  Sure.

• 1:28:24Speaker 03

  That's the main thing I want to say. So podcasts, in particular Joe's, are a vehicle by which enormous amounts of disinformation spread. High volume, very rapidly, all over the place. And Joe has these people on every week. That's part one.

• 1:28:38Danny Jones?

  And he should.

• 1:28:40Speaker 03

  I, should he? What do you mean?

• 1:28:41Danny Jones?

  Yeah, he should. He should.

• 1:28:42Speaker 03

  He should have frauds that lie to people?

• 1:28:44Danny Jones?

  He should have frauds. He should, it doesn't, that's not the point. The point is, he should have as many people on as he thinks is possibly, as many interesting people on as possible and as many as he wants to. It's not his job.

• 1:28:56Speaker 03

  Are they interesting? I mean, is a grifter interesting?

• 1:28:59Danny Jones?

  It's not his job to attribute motive to that person, right?

• 1:29:04Speaker 03

  His job is to do, is to make money. Like, he's just making money on his show and he has an unbelievably large net worth to show for it. You can, he can do whatever he wants, right? He's a free agent.

• 1:29:14Danny Jones?

  And he should be able to. And there's no, there should not be any limits on that stuff.

• 1:29:16Speaker 03

  He should be able to. There's, I'm not saying, look, the point is, there's not, it's not about he shouldn't get to have a show or this, you know, that person, whatever. It's about having a media landscape where, and you know, this, you had on Bart Sabrell and I feel like you.

• 1:29:33Danny Jones?

  With Charlie Duke.

• 1:29:34Speaker 03

  With Charlie Duke. So like, the first, so I did two on Bart Sabrell, two videos. And the second one, I used your two episodes. So you had on, you had him, the first episode, it seemed like you kind of bought it a little bit.

• 1:29:47Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:47Speaker 03

  And then the second time, unfortunately, Charlie was not prepared to do anything, but he's.

• 1:29:52Danny Jones?

  I think Bart still lost me on that one, though.

• 1:29:54Speaker 03

  That's what I'm saying, is that you had done a little bit of work in the interim and you nailed him on some stuff with the shadows and stuff. And so I think that you realized he's a fraud. I think that hopefully your viewers realize that he's a fraud. Then I think you had on Everyday Astronaut and you talked about it more, I believe.

• 1:30:09Danny Jones?

  Yep.

• 1:30:09Speaker 03

  So, so that, if Joe Rogan did that, I wouldn't have a problem with that. That's why I agreed to be here, because I feel like you are what Joe thinks he is. I think that that's what you're trying to lean into, or at least that's my impression. So I I'm here to commend that and try to be part of it.

• 1:30:25Danny Jones?

  Well, I would have never done this if it wasn't for Joe Rogan. Like, I would have never created a podcast if it wasn't for him. I think everyone who has a podcast can say that.

• 1:30:30Speaker 03

  Enormously, and and and I've listened to Joe Rogan episodes back in the day when he used to have just comedians on and interesting people. And, you know, when I was in a tour van a lot, I would listen to him.

• 1:30:39Danny Jones?

  I think like eighty percent of his of his library is comedians still. Like, he has more comedians on than anyone still. Like, eventually, yeah.

• 1:30:45Speaker 03

  Recently, okay.

• 1:30:46Danny Jones?

  Every once in a while, he has, like, some scientists on that, you know. He's had a lot of climate change scientists on. He's had a lot of immunologists and and all kinds of he. I mean, there's no topic that he hasn't covered. But, like, going back to your point about the moon and Bart Sabril. Like, I've changed my mind on things multiple times. I've gone back and forth. Just the other day, two days ago, have you ever seen these? These are pre-dynastic Egyptian vases. So me and Flint Dibble were talking about this when he was on my show.

• 1:31:11Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:31:11Danny Jones?

  And I I pressured him on his. I thought he was full of shit.

• 1:31:14Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:31:14Danny Jones?

  Because these are granite vases that were measured in in light scanners at aerospace companies.

• 1:31:20Speaker 03

  Ben's stuff, right?

• 1:31:21Danny Jones?

  This is Ben Van Kirk, who first brought this stuff to me. So here's the the idea behind these is they're pre-dynastic. Back in the day, like, four thousand years ago, when the Egyptians were using copper tools and stone chisels. Or, yeah, stone and copper tools to create and craft and do hieroglyphics and build everything. So these things, which were dated to the same time, were made of granite, one of the hardest stones that exists. And when they were measured with the most precise measuring equipment known to man, it found out they were so precise. The only way we could make them today was on a CNC machine. So it's like, how do we have this computer precision with granite, the hardest stone known to man, one of the below diamond?

• 1:32:06Danny Jones?

  But dated to four thousand years ago, it doesn't add up to anything. And I was convinced that, like, there's something wrong. There's a huge gap here. Like, how do we get, like, how do we get a fucking academic? Archaeologist from Egypt on here to address this stuff with someone like Ben. And get to the bottom of this and lots of people, Chris Dunn. He wrote an amazing book that I really enjoyed called The Giza Power Plant. He's a, um, he's an engineer, an aerospace engineer who discovered the pyramids in the nine, or in the eighties, rather. And he looked at the interior layout and said, this looks like a machine to me. This looks like a mechanical thing that has some sort of a, uh, uh, it looks like it's performing a, built to perform a function. Rather than a funerary tomb.

• 1:32:52Danny Jones?

  So he wrote a book about it and he also talked about the vases when he came on. He brought me that one, that 3D print. So it's like, what Ben was trying to say in his videos is like, well, this must be evidence for ancient machining. Or, uh, some sort of Yeah, I'm familiar with the talking point. Ancient techno, I know you're very aware of this, but I'm just trying to describe it to people who don't know. Advanced ancient technology that can be attributed to the Egyptians if they had stone tools and copper chisels, right? So there's people that have like spent hundreds of thousands of dollars buying these on the antiquities markets. And they were like a huge anomaly to me, like almost as much, if not more than the pyramids themselves.

• 1:33:33Danny Jones?

  I had a guy on just the other day who was a nuclear engineer. Who was fascinated by this, he got into Ben's work early on, like found his YouTube channel was fascinated by it. And he like made this his life. He started studying them, like measuring them, going to museums and measuring the ones that were in the museums. He measured the ones that were in the private collections. And he also measured ones that were modern recreations, like that he knew for a fact were made in like, on like CNC machines. And like laser cutters and stuff like that. And what he found was that all of the super precise ones that were really like accurate. And how do we done on a CNC machine, CNC machine were modern.

• 1:34:19Danny Jones?

  The vast majority, like he laid it out all, laid it all out on a graph.

• 1:34:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:34:24Danny Jones?

  And he convinced himself and me.

• 1:34:27Speaker 03

  That the whole narrative was bullshit.

• 1:34:29Danny Jones?

  That, not that it was all bullshit, like I don't think that these people know this.

• 1:34:34Danny Jones?

  Or I, I'm sure a lot of them are going to push back against it and they're gonna ignore it and they're gonna, they're gonna deny it when it gets in their face.

• 1:34:42Speaker 03

  Because you're emotionally invested now in this fantastical claim and it props up all of these wonderful, all the ancient, super advanced civilization, all this, right?

• 1:34:50Danny Jones?

  But Max, Max, Lil, Max Zamelov came up, he, he showed us the evidence, he put it all on a graph, man. And, and all the super precise ones were modern recreations. He even paid to have a modern recreation done by a company in China. And it was like, very similar to the ones that all these people had that they said were ancient. So it's like, now the evidence is in the other court. Like I can't fucking say these things are ancient anymore until I see evident, more evidence that goes to the contrary.

• 1:35:14Speaker 03

  So, a couple of things, number one, I applaud you for that. Number two, if every podcast in this space operated as you described, then we, I, I wouldn't be saying anything about it. And we wouldn't have such widespread science denial as we do today. Right? Joe doesn't do that. Very rarely, right? He'll have Flint on.

• 1:35:36Danny Jones?

  He did it with Flint.

• 1:35:37Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, he did it with Flint and then after the fact, started this giant smear campaign, Flint is a liar, whatever. And then never had him back on and then just had fraud after fraud after fraud, right? Pseudarchae, the pseudarchaeology spaces, you know, thrived on Rogan first.

• 1:35:55Speaker 03

  But, uh, so, look, once again, like, you, you know, you did that, right? You had, this guy says this, this guy says this, you're giving equal attention to, you know, you're, you're not the one that has to be the arbiter of what's true, right? You hear people making claims, so I, I want to encourage that. And it, it's very important, especially for people like you to do that because you have in the past have, have had these people on. And I think that a lot of your viewers put a lot of stock in some of these figures. And so for you to have someone on that's, that's debunking this narrative, this claim, that ends up being very, because you can have it on a lot of different, uh, you know, you, somebody can write a paper about it. People are not going to read the paper, that people don't read scientific journals.

• 1:36:37Speaker 03

  It has to, like, this, this is what the podcast landscape has, has to transform into. Is having credible people on. And it's hard because you don't let, you know, I said Avi Loeb earlier, he's a Harvard professor. How do you know he's a grifter?

• 1:36:53Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:36:53Speaker 03

  Well, he is, you know, Harvard professor can be a grifter, surprise, surprise, you know, it happens, it does happen. And so in that case, right, you know, and hopefully maybe you'll have someone on that'll debunk everything that Avi says.

• 1:37:05Danny Jones?

  Well, we had, what's his name on?

• 1:37:08Danny Jones?

  What was the gentleman from MIT? Jim Gates. You heard him? He's great. He, anyways, he's very, very well respected. He knew, he knew Fermi, I think, Enrico Fermi. He knew Stephen Hawking, like, one of like the most legendary MIT physicists. But those, those guys are hard to get.

• 1:37:33Speaker 03

  They are hard to get. So that's, that's the other tricky part is that the podcasting landscape has become this like alternate universe of outlandish claims that academia has traditionally just ignored.

• 1:37:43Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:37:43Speaker 03

  They're just like, there's crazy people saying crazy things. It doesn't affect me. I don't care and I'm not going to deal with it. And so most academics have traditionally

• 1:37:51Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:37:52Speaker 03

  Been unwilling to do. So me, I'm not an academic. I live in this space, right? I'm, I'm some guy making videos at home. And so this is, these are the narratives that I deal with every day and that I'm, so I, for me to come here, it's, it's not weird. But, um, you know, I think that I'm finally starting to see a change within, within the scientific community because they're realizing how severely public perception of science affects their ability to do science because they're voting administrations into power that then slash funding for science. And now all of a sudden, all right, they have all of their grants taken away. They can't do science anymore. So I'm seeing a little bit of a, the stirrings of a fervor among scientists and a little bit more willingness to, you know, utilize these platforms to, to, to speak out.

• 1:38:34Speaker 03

  So I'm hoping that if you can kind of lead the way in, in a certain regard in this way and many other podcasts, hopefully will try to be this way, be, you know, try to get, you know, and the more academics that do it, that traditionally haven't done it, you know, not Avi Loeb, but he's dying to. But but people who who wouldn't otherwise that are going to give you factual information to discredit whatever RFK said this week because every week he's saying something insane. We need that. We need more of that in this podcasting space. That's that's where it has.

• 1:39:08Danny Jones?

  Yeah, we need to see more debates. More people get together with opposing ideologies or opposing viewpoints on things. And I try, we try our best to do that. It's not easy to do.

• 1:39:15Speaker 03

  Yeah. And the other, so, I mean, I think a lot of academics are not used to like a combative environment.

• 1:39:21Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:39:21Speaker 03

  I mean, it's like academia can be combative in that everybody has different ideas. That's one thing that I think a lot of people don't understand is that there there exists debate within academia. It's just that you have these opposing ideas, you know, the dark matter is this, dark matter is that. Well, you publish papers. Right? You do research and you publish papers. These are the results that I got that which might, you know, perhaps this dark matter candidate is no longer.

• 1:39:44Danny Jones?

  And also, some of the smartest people aren't the best communicators.

• 1:39:47Speaker 03

  That's true, right?

• 1:39:48Danny Jones?

  And some of the best communicators could be the dumbest motherfuckers I've ever met.

• 1:39:51Speaker 03

  That's can also be true. So it's just a situation we're here 2026. We have a situation where very slowly over the past decade or so. This alternate reality has been cultivated in the podcast space where it's just sort of these very specific charlatans just make the rounds and conjure this other reality where it's, you know, the big bad academic science, you can't listen to them. We have this super cool truth. And the academics have up until this point just kind of allowed it to happen. And just like, well, we don't care what they say, you know? They're just, it's some lunatic shouting on a street corner. Well, it's not a lunatic shouting on the street corner. Now it's the fucking head of the HHS.

• 1:40:29Danny Jones?

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• 1:41:14Danny Jones?

  For me, it's just a smoother start to the day. Clearer focus, no roller coaster, and it's the perfect balance. Ready to make the switch to cleaner energy? Head on over to mudwtr.com and grab your starter kit today. And right now, our listeners are getting an exclusive deal. Up to 43% off your entire order, plus free shipping and a free rechargeable frother when you use my code, Danny Jones at checkout. That's right, up to 43% off when you use the code Danny Jones at M U D W T R dot com. After you purchase, they're gonna ask where you found them, and please help support the show and let them know we sent you. Let me ask you this, sorry to change the subject. Has there ever been a conspiracy theory that you turned around on, did a 180 on? That you maybe, maybe, maybe something like this that you absolutely thought was bullshit?

• 1:41:59Danny Jones?

  Maybe made a video attacking and then did it and turned around on it?

• 1:42:03Speaker 03

  I don't, I can't think of one.

• 1:42:04Danny Jones?

  Nothing?

• 1:42:05Speaker 03

  Nothing.

• 1:42:05Danny Jones?

  I mean, because. Not even Epstein?

• 1:42:07Speaker 03

  Well, but that's, I mean, I never doubted.

• 1:42:10Danny Jones?

  I mean, two years ago, people would have been like, there's no way they're trafficking and eating kids. And now there's emails that prove it, basically.

• 1:42:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, I don't know the precise details, but I never doubted. I mean, I think part of it is just that I've been.

• 1:42:24Danny Jones?

  What, you QAnon asshole, like, get out of here.

• 1:42:27Speaker 03

  Well, I think that I've always just been with Epstein and like Mossad ties and stuff. Like, I've been, you know, anti-Zionist for a very, very long time, so.

• 1:42:37Danny Jones?

  You're Italian, right?

• 1:42:38Speaker 03

  Yeah. Um, but my wife is Palestinian and I have a, you know, a large extended Palestinian family. So I just kind of, I mean, not that, you know, I was becoming aware of Israel prior to meeting her, but then, you know, over the past, I just, it's been a long process of like.

• 1:42:53Danny Jones?

  Is she like born there?

• 1:42:54Speaker 03

  She was not, she was born in Chicago, but her parents fled, they fled in the seventies. So it's just, I've known what Israel is for a long time. And so a figure like Epstein, like it's just, I never really doubted that. I'm more in the science space where it's like, I can pretty easily sniff out when something is scientifically inaccurate, and then also the motivations behind it. Sometimes I have to dig into the literature a little bit, but usually I can tell, oh, this is a Christian propaganda mill.

• 1:43:24Speaker 03

  That's, that's what's going on there. But with that stuff, with geopolitics, I don't think I ever really doubted a lot of that stuff. I know how horrific certain people are and how horrific certain nations are and, and how horrific, you know, a very, very large percentage of the American government is, that was never something I doubted. So.

• 1:43:45Danny Jones?

  Yeah, I mean, but like, one of the craziest conspiracies that people were getting made fun of for is like, the whole like, global banker cabal, you know, that controls the world. There's this globalist elite economy that goes to the Trilateral Commission, and Bill Gates and Bezos and Peter Thiel are going there and they're, they're, doing deals on arms trafficking and child, human trafficking and all this stuff. And like, they really control the world. They really control the government. It's like, you know, at some level, there's a certain level of society that's like, brushes those people off, like, these people are insane. And then you have like,

• 1:44:22Speaker 03

  Depending on how it's worded.

• 1:44:23Danny Jones?

  And who knows how much gaslighting is involved when it comes to the US government, too. Because like, you know, like, there's no way you can tell me that the US government hasn't predicted what's going to happen when they hide all this information and don't tell us the truth about things. Like, hiding all the shit about the Charlie Kirk thing, not saying a word, hiding all the stuff about the Trump assassination, not saying a word about that guy. That thing is just tied up. We don't hear anything about it, nor does he say anything about it. So many things like this, where you don't give any answers, no conclusive answers. And then the Epstein files, all this Epstein file stuff comes out, all these emails, all these people, these billionaires that run these huge corporations in the US and other countries are implicated in all this horrific shit. And the FBI says,

• 1:45:07Danny Jones?

  number one, first of all, they say, I mean, if you want to really rewind it. If you elect me, I'm gonna release the Epstein files. Now it's a democratic hoax. They don't exist.

• 1:45:16Speaker 03

  They don't exist, yeah.

• 1:45:17Danny Jones?

  And then.

• 1:45:18Speaker 03

  And then here's half of them, the half that I'm not in.

• 1:45:20Danny Jones?

  And then here it is, the Dow's up 50,000 or whatever. And then, you know, here they are. But we're also, and by the way, I don't give the fucking Democrats that are, as much as I fuck can't stand Pam Bondi or Cash Patel, I don't give the Democratic people that are attacking her any credit because they didn't do jack shit when they were in power. And when Biden was president, when Clinton was president, when Obama was president, nothing was done. That shit was colored up the whole fucking time. It's just a political, uh, it's just politically advantageous to them right now. So, um, yeah, they give it, they drop all that crazy horrendous shit on us and they don't give us any explanation. What was your conclusion? Oh, nothing. Here you go. Have fun on Twitter.

• 1:45:55Speaker 03

  Yeah, just blow up the internet. Yeah, just nuke the internet and let everybody freak out.

• 1:46:00Danny Jones?

  Exactly.

• 1:46:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, I don't know. I mean, look, I don't need any convincing that there are evil people in power that do evil things. Like that's, it's just categorically different, right? I deal in the space of people who are, who are spreading disinformation that is scientifically untrue, right? That, that's the thing about like, with something like Epstein files or whatever, like all of these people did all these things. I don't like, was there a camera? I don't know. But that's very.

• 1:46:23Danny Jones?

  There were, there were cameras in every single house.

• 1:46:24Speaker 03

  So let's see the, like, we, like, the, the, the great thing about science is that it's empirical. Anybody can test anything. What does a pathogen do? What does a drug do? What, how does this law of physics work? What is that made out of? Anybody can test it and find out for themselves. That's what's awesome about science. And that's what, that's what makes, uh, like, science denial debunking fairly accessible to someone like me. Um, is it's just, uh, 90% of it is just fumbling basic science. Um, and I can use very basic principles in physics and chemistry and et cetera to, to, to debunk it. When it comes to what the government is doing, I don't know, man. I don't know what they're doing. They're doing bad stuff. Yes, of course they are.

• 1:47:05Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:47:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, they're, they're, they're two different spheres. I, I don't make political content. Uh, people have complained that my content has gotten too political lately, but it's inevitable because you have people who politicize science. So in order to, in order to de-politicize science, I have to talk about the political motives of people who are politicizing science. And that's Trump's, that's RFK's, HHS, all up and down, right? So in order to defend the scientific community and the, and scientific truth from politicians, where you have to mention them and, and talk about their motives and everything like that. But, uh, in terms of, yeah, just. I wasn't, I never doubted the Epstein stuff or the or the Mossad link. I mean, people, yeah, people, I mean, and I mentioned it like offhand in a reaction video, maybe I've talked

• 1:47:49Speaker 03

  about Epstein was Mossad or whatever. And I'll get like, I will get a little bit of that. Like, Dave, there's no evidence for that. I don't know. I

• 1:47:55Danny Jones?

  Have you ever done a video or a debate with Professor Jiang?

• 1:48:00Speaker 03

  No, I did a reaction video on him. That guy's nuts. Yeah. And so

• 1:48:05Danny Jones?

  Similar background, similar start, similar start to you, right?

• 1:48:08Speaker 03

  I suppose.

• 1:48:08Danny Jones?

  He's a high school teacher.

• 1:48:09Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I taught at a university, but yeah, fake professor.

• 1:48:14Danny Jones?

  But he does the whole whiteboard thing and all that.

• 1:48:16Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah. He's, it's like a fake school or I don't know what's going on there.

• 1:48:19Danny Jones?

  It's so fun. It's so fun. I get sucked in. Yeah. It just, he just fucking holds. I watched those videos and it's just got me in a stranglehold. I can't stop watching it, dude.

• 1:48:27Speaker 03

  But the thing with that guy, so I did a reaction video and I got a little bit crucified in the comments because I did one. So he, I looked at his catalog and a bunch of it is about science, which is my wheelhouse. And I'm like,

• 1:48:37Danny Jones?

  Also, the most boring titles ever.

• 1:48:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:48:40Danny Jones?

  Like, like no clickbait.

• 1:48:41Speaker 03

  Yeah. But it's also insane. I mean, when he talks about science, it's insane. He has no idea what he's talking about. It's crazy. And so I was like, oh, okay. I'm, I'll react to one of these science videos. But at the front of it, I reacted to, he went on Breaking Points and it was like a little 15 minute one. And so I, I was just like, well, let's react to this one first. Disclaimer, I don't know much about geopolitics. So I may or may not have anything to say. And he kept it really, really tame on that one. He didn't say anything outrageous, except for at the end, he was like Illuminati, whatever the, you know, but he, he kind of just regurgitated some, some stuff about straight or Hormuz and stuff that he'd like heard from other things. He didn't say anything that weird. And so I got to the end, I was like, all right, whatever. So now let's watch the science one. And I just, I just eviscerated, he was just trying to talk about cosmology and evolution and just had no idea

• 1:49:25Speaker 03

  what he's talking about. But so many people just watched like the first five minutes of me reacting to him on Breaking Points and we're like, Dave doesn't know anything. I mean, I said a naive thing. I said something because he said, you know, Iran will beat America. It will destroy the American, you know, American empire or whatever. And I was like, well, that's insane. They're not going to destroy America. But he just has these vague, Ron will win. So I was like, oh, well, that's silly. I said something that wasn't phrased properly like America can't lose or that does it. It's not about winning and lose. It's not like two armies and one remains at the end. You know what I mean?

• 1:50:00Danny Jones?

  It's it's not like a clear cut thing.

• 1:50:02Speaker 03

  No, it's not.

• 1:50:02Danny Jones?

  Engage a winner and loser.

• 1:50:03Speaker 03

  Yeah. So I said something a little bit naive and I kind of got crucified in the in the section in the comment section. But then it went on to like an hour of me reacting to him fumbling high school level science principles. And I was just like, why does anybody believe this guy? Like, he's just spewing.

• 1:50:18Danny Jones?

  A lot of the stuff that he does say, though, about the geopolitical implications of like what's going on in the relationships between countries, especially with this Iran war is very accurate.

• 1:50:26Speaker 03

  Like, yeah, but I think that some whatever saying he's saying that's accurate is pretty trivial that you can just get off.

• 1:50:30Danny Jones?

  Maybe, yeah, I'm sure you can learn it from anybody else.

• 1:50:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:50:32Danny Jones?

  But I like learning it from him. I think it's, I mean, it gets like, here's another thing. People like him and people like even Graham Hancock or any of these people. Like, it's happened to me where even if these people, whoever you want to say it is, say they're like the worst liars in the world, right? It's happened to me where like that's hooked me into a topic where like I really thought like this is so fascinating. This is so crazy. Aliens built the pyramids. Holy shit. Now I want to go, I want to keep drilling down and drilling down and drilling down. And eventually I'll get to where I got on these fucking Egyptian bases. Like, oh, my God. But now I've like, I've learned so much along the way.

• 1:51:13Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:51:14Danny Jones?

  It's like it's it was the catalyst that kind of got me into things.

• 1:51:18Speaker 03

  Couple of things. Not everyone's like you. Number two, you're incentivized to seek out the information because you have a podcast and you're going to bring all kinds of different guests on. So there's absolutely nothing wrong with what you just said, right? You got you got hooked by something. You investigated further, found that the thing that hooked you was not true. And then, you know, maybe found some passion for something and now maybe you'll listen to more legitimate sources of information. The overwhelming majority of the populace that is tuning into these podcasts does not have that level of self-reflection, that level of intellectual responsibility. So we are seeing science denial becoming more and more mainstream. And it's largely the podcast space, not exclusively, but largely the podcast space that is responsible for that.

• 1:52:01Speaker 03

  So again, that's why I'm here. I commend you for doing that. And I want to help and be part of that. Right? Help in whatever tiny way I can to steer the podcasting space towards that kind of approach to truth, you know?

• 1:52:16Danny Jones?

  What is your take on UFOs?

• 1:52:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, this is what I get the request because my viewers know that I debunked everything and I haven't done this one yet.

• 1:52:25Danny Jones?

  What?

• 1:52:25Speaker 03

  Because it's such a hornet's nest, right? The pseudo archeology thing is a hornet's nest. And eventually I was like, fuck it, I'm gonna poke this hornet nest. And it just, all the bees came at me. But now I'm going down the roster one by one.

• 1:52:39Danny Jones?

  The UFO one is a hall of mirrors.

• 1:52:41Speaker 03

  Yeah. And to answer your question very briefly, I don't buy any of it. I don't think aliens have ever been here. All of it is bullshit to me. But, yeah. But I have not yet begun the process of digging deeply into it and talking to a lot of people and reading a lot of stuff. Everybody's like, dude, Bob Lazar on Joe Rogan, you gotta debunk this guy. And I'm like, I have my little list of like, what I'm doing right now. And I'm like, dude, I'm like six debunks deep, like I don't have time to-

• 1:53:06Danny Jones?

  There's factions inside the UFO community that fucking war against each other.

• 1:53:11Speaker 03

  It's just so, like, I'm on purpose delaying, like, I don't feel like doing it yet.

• 1:53:16Danny Jones?

  It's so much, bro. It'll take up so much of your time.

• 1:53:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:53:21Danny Jones?

  But you also learn a lot. It's a fun topic. What has been like, has there been anything that you've seen or listened to that has been like, something that's been like more compelling than others that you maybe would consider? Like, what about the New York Times article that came out in 2014 about the Tic Tac UFOs that the Navy pilots were seeing?

• 1:53:37Speaker 03

  I mean, a lot of it, I mean, and it's lent credence by being in those publications. But all it takes is-

• 1:53:45Danny Jones?

  The same publication that sold us the Iraq war.

• 1:53:46Speaker 03

  Sure, exactly. So, is it more credence or not? And what is the motive of the American government in having Senate hearings about these things? Like, what is happening? Like, why are we doing this? No, I think that I just looked at some videos of people recreating that, you know, there's like a transparency and a window and they go like that really fast. And I don't know, Mick West is a great guy to have on if you want somebody that'll debunk all this stuff for you. He's kind of the premier UAP debunker guy. I just haven't. It's just, I'm dealing with, like, I started with flat-earthers, got bored of that really fast, then creationism and anti-vax, like, there are certain spheres that I, like, I could spend my entire life-

• 1:54:28Speaker 03

  Debunking creationists, or like I could spend my entire life debunking one thing. There's just so many charlatans in there, so I choose to spread myself very thin. I've become a generalist at this point and I really go after as much as I can, whatever I think is very damaging to the public at any given time. But I just can't, I can't do it all, like there's.

• 1:54:46Danny Jones?

  Can you explain to me creationists? I'm not familiar with this one. I mean, I'm generally kind of vaguely familiar with it, but.

• 1:54:52Speaker 03

  I mean, God made all the life exactly as God, you know, I mean biblical creationists are like, you know, Adam and Eve and, you know, you have young earth creationists that are like the earth is 6,000 years old and God went poof and here's all the animals and the humans. Here's Adam and Eve and whatever. Then there's creationists that try to be slightly more compatible with science. You have like old age, old earth creationists that are like, well, I think that Genesis has an element of allegory and a day can be a million years or, you know, whatever it is. But ultimately all of it is science denial and then it is weaponized science denial when you have Christian propaganda mills.

• 1:55:32Speaker 03

  One of them is called the Discovery Institute that I've been, that I am well known for, for debunking quite voraciously.

• 1:55:39Danny Jones?

  A Christian propaganda mill?

• 1:55:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:55:41Danny Jones?

  What are, what are they actually like, is it a website or like a podcast?

• 1:55:45Speaker 03

  I mean, it's an institute in, in, in Seattle and it's very well funded by Christian nationalists and they try to appear as academic as possible, like it's a think tank or like they actually do research, which of course they don't. And it is populated by people who have at one point been legitimate academics, but now they are, you know, they, they might have a PhD in something tangential to what they're talking about. But their entire job is to go through the primary scientific literature in biology, anthropology, and you know, any number of fields. Distorted like crazy and tried to convince the public that there's a debate between evolution and creation happening in the, in the, in the, in the zeitgeist and, you know, in the, within the scientific community. Here's these scholars that, that are dubious of evolution.

• 1:56:29Speaker 03

  It's all just a bunch of, it's, it's an attempt to erode the separation of church and state. By, by planting doubt in science such that religion ought to be taught in public science classes in, in school. Alongside legitimate science and then from there you go, you know, it's. Handmaid's Tale stuff.

• 1:56:48Danny Jones?

  Dude, one of the craziest things to me is this marriage of this like this new surge of Christian nationalism in the military and it's tied to Israel. That's freaky to me. And I watched a couple documentaries. I watched a Vice doc, an old Vice documentary about like the evangelical lobby in the US, which is also, I think, bigger than the fucking, uh, the Jewish lobby or the Israel lobby.

• 1:57:12Speaker 03

  Well, there, I mean, there's a lot of overlap there.

• 1:57:14Danny Jones?

  But they're all tied in to get, they're all the same thing, right? Because the Jewish lobby or the Israel lobby has like made them a part of them, their team somehow. And they're all advocating for the same thing, for like this messianic age in, in Israel. And like to bring the diaspora back to Israel and to control the United States.

• 1:57:31Speaker 03

  Right. And it's certainly what they're doing. And it's, and it's, it's hard to decipher how much of it is, is rhetoric to entrance a highly religious general public versus what they're actually doing. I mean, it's scarily, I think maybe they really do believe all that.

• 1:57:45Danny Jones?

  I think some of them do. I think so. I mean, now there's clearly some of them that don't, but I think there's a huge majority of them who do.

• 1:57:51Speaker 03

  But it's very clear. I mean, you have a guy like Ted Cruz that'll just outright admit, like I'm, the purpose is to protect Israel. It's like, what are you, this is like sedition, like this is treasonous.

• 1:58:00Danny Jones?

  I couldn't believe that was real when I was listening to it.

• 1:58:02Speaker 03

  You, you have American politicians admitting, we have to protect Israel, serve Israel.

• 1:58:07Danny Jones?

  That's his number one issue. That's why he got into Congress was to push the goals of Israel. Like, how is that, how, how is that real, dude? I don't, I don't get it.

• 1:58:18Speaker 03

  Yeah. So, yeah, the history.

• 1:58:20Danny Jones?

  Did you see the one that Tucker did with Mike Huckabee?

• 1:58:22Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Yeah, they can have it all. Which, by the way, they are doing right now. They're using the Iran war to distract us while they annex southern Lebanon. Million people displaced. That, that shit is Israel now. And Gaza, I mean Gaza's a foregone conclusion. That is Israel. And, you know, Trump will get his hotel on the new Riviera.

• 1:58:39Danny Jones?

  There was a new thing that came out this morning. Um, let me text it to you real quick, Steve, uh, because we can pull it up. This was, I guess, I think this was put out by the Israeli government. This is a tweet I'm forwarding to you. And they listed, I don't know if you saw this, they listed the top like 20 antisemites in the US.

• 1:59:02Speaker 03

  I'm not top 20, but I'm on that list. I was anti Semite of the week and uh.

• 1:59:07Danny Jones?

  Were you really?

• 1:59:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anti Semite of the year was uh Ms. Rachel.

• 1:59:11Danny Jones?

  Who put you, I saw that Ms. Rachel of all people.

• 1:59:14Speaker 03

  Way to tank your credibility by going after Ms. Rachel, the sweetest angel.

• 1:59:18Danny Jones?

  Idiots.

• 1:59:19Speaker 03

  I mean, they just, I think that the, the problem is that, not the problem, the good thing is that uh, uh, public opinion.

• 1:59:26Danny Jones?

  Gendel Zarian is number one anti Semitic influencer.

• 1:59:29Speaker 03

  Well, yeah, he talks a lot about Israel. I mean, you say, say what you want about him, but he is.

• 1:59:33Danny Jones?

  Posted a tweet that said, he said, I am not, he goes, I'm not for a two state solution. He says Palestine should be all of Israel.

• 1:59:41Speaker 03

  Yeah, I, and I agree with him. I don't like, it, it shouldn't be a controversial statement. You know, yeah, you, you can.

• 1:59:49Danny Jones?

  Look at, look who's number two.

• 1:59:50Speaker 03

  Number two is.

• 1:59:52Danny Jones?

  Greta Thunberg.

• 1:59:53Speaker 03

  Well, of course.

• 1:59:55Speaker 03

  Just any, any activist must be smeared. Um, yeah, I got to stop anti, uh, stop, and stop antisemitism.org is an organization that tries to. Ruin the lives of anybody who speaks up for Palestine. Speak, if you're.

• 2:00:08Danny Jones?

  I didn't know you talked about this a lot.

• 2:00:09Speaker 03

  So I didn't for a long time because I make science content, but it, it, it creeps in, right? When you're talking about the Trump administration or whatever administrations in power, I mean, and then, you know, obviously it just, it crept in, in, in, in certain ways. And then now my viewers know that I'm, you know, staunchly.

• 2:00:26Danny Jones?

  What is that on the right? Sorry to interrupt you. Dude, it's okay to have, what is that? Is that real?

• 2:00:34Danny Jones?

  Poland MP Conrad Berkowitz openly called Israel the new Third Reich.

• 2:00:38Speaker 03

  Uh, no, Hinkel is a.

• 2:00:39Danny Jones?

  Is that a real picture? Did he really hold that flag up like that?

• 2:00:42Speaker 03

  I think his Hinkel is a, is a, not a reliable source of information.

• 2:00:47Danny Jones?

  So, so copy and paste Poland MP Conrad, that name? Copy and paste that into the search on, oh, it's a screenshot.

• 2:00:55Speaker 03

  I don't know, but um, no, I also what I was doing is right after October 7th on Twitter, I was voraciously combating Zionist propaganda because in the beginning of the, in the beginning of this, you know, what is still ongoing, the ongoing genocide, there was just this unbelievable wave of propaganda. I don't know if you remember when they were first bombing all the hospitals and everything. It was just like Hamas is there, Hamas is there. No, they're just bombing hospitals and they would go, you know, there was Al Shifa Hospital was supposed to be, they had this, um, this, this CGI, like it's the ultimate Hamas base underground, all of these things. They go in there, they delay it for like five hours. They go in, there's like a couple of guns over there. There's a, they say here's a list of terrorists. It was a calendar, like, like just

• 2:01:37Speaker 03

  the most embarrassing, like the propaganda was so embarrassing that like even like CNN stopped running Israeli propaganda, like they were just, the media landscape was starting to like jump ship a little bit. And so you just had all of these influencers on Twitter that were just non-stop 24/7 pushing this propaganda to kind of like massage, like manufacture consent for genocide essentially. And I mean, it did largely backfire just because of how many people, how many people you, like, it's, if you really want to see it, you'll see it. You'll go and you'll follow Gazan journalists and you'll see the carnage and you'll see what's really happening. Um, and so I was really, for the first like four months of the, of the conflict, I was spending way too much time and like losing my mind and crying every day of just

• 2:02:20Speaker 03

  like, you know, combating this stuff. And so, uh, they kind of dog piled me, uh, dog piled on me and got my account terminated and, um,

• 2:02:28Danny Jones?

  On what?

• 2:02:29Speaker 03

  On Twitter.

• 2:02:30Danny Jones?

  Twitter?

• 2:02:30Speaker 03

  Yeah. Uh, and so that's how I got stomped, uh, the, the anti-semite of the week I was, uh,

• 2:02:36Danny Jones?

  Congratulations.

• 2:02:37Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's good. Alongside, it just, what they would do, it's, it's an organization that any like, especially if you were like a medical professional, they would dox the hell out of you, call your place of employment, pressure, so much pressure to fire them. And yeah, yeah, very similar, yeah.

• 2:02:53Danny Jones?

  See, that's the most insane thing is how the Israeli government is trying to box in all Jewish people into their government narrative and trying to say anyone that criticizes the Israeli government is criticizing Jews.

• 2:03:06Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:03:07Danny Jones?

  That's like...

• 2:03:08Speaker 03

  It's a brilliant tactic.

• 2:03:09Danny Jones?

  That's like associating me and you with Dick Cheney and George Bush.

• 2:03:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's a brilliant tactic and kind of the only tactic they had available to them, but it just backfired spectacularly. The word antisemitism doesn't even mean anything anymore just because... Which is a shame because antisemitism does exist.

• 2:03:23Danny Jones?

  Sure.

• 2:03:24Speaker 03

  But now when somebody says that word, you have to go, "Do you mean antisemitism or antisemitism? What do you mean?" Because I'm an antisemite because I protest genocide.

• 2:03:34Danny Jones?

  Right, because you're against killing innocent little girls.

• 2:03:37Speaker 03

  Killing babies, yeah.

• 2:03:38Danny Jones?

  So what, is this the video, Steve? The MP of Poland?

• 2:04:12Danny Jones?

  Seven hours ago?

• 2:04:20Danny Jones?

  Okay, this is in the Polish parliament?

• 2:04:22Speaker 03

  Israel is the new Third Reich and its flag should look exactly like this. Israel's attacks in the Middle East are already being felt by Poles through fuel prices, but how are they felt by children, whose deaths already number dozens of times more than during the entire war in Ukraine? Well, like this: Jews are using a banned phosphorus bomb that consumes oxygen from the air and leads to death by suffocation. Moreover, the smoke from this bomb enters the lungs and...

• 2:04:48Speaker 07

  burns them from the inside they suffocate and burn from the inside at the same time tens of thousands of women and children but if a child is lucky enough not to suffocate white phosphorus sticks to the cheek or to the hand and burns through the tissue down to the bone it cannot be extinguished

• 2:05:06Danny Jones?

  did he really hold up that flag?

• 2:05:07Speaker 07

  so the cheek is cut off and the hand is amputated israel is committing genocide before our eyes with particular

• 2:05:14Speaker 03

  I mean it's an apt comparison

• 2:05:15Danny Jones?

  it is

• 2:05:15Speaker 03

  Zionist service

• 2:05:16Speaker 07

  committing genocide before our eyes with particular cruelty

• 2:05:18Danny Jones?

  no Netanyahu and Smotrich and Ben Gvir they are Hitler they are terrorists

• 2:05:22Speaker 03

  yeah there's really no difference um but yeah it's war crimes all day and the endless victim complex you know

• 2:05:29Danny Jones?

  yeah man it's insane dude

• 2:05:31Speaker 03

  but uh

• 2:05:32Danny Jones?

  and I like I said earlier I think this is an interesting topic because it's the one thing I think can unify everybody and is unifying especially young people in America right now I think they they are all aware of this insane corruption of Israel Israeli influence in the United States government with people like Ted Cruz and all this and you know shockingly enough you know we have this this establishment media right wing personality Tucker Carlson who's doing the biggest job of exposing all of it

• 2:06:00Speaker 03

  it's kinda crazy it's kinda crazy I don't know exactly what motivated Tucker to like be so because on every other topic it's just nonstop garbage out of his mouth but it's

• 2:06:11Danny Jones?

  well he's a he's a he's a very hardcore Christian

• 2:06:13Speaker 03

  yeah

• 2:06:14Danny Jones?

  but he he says he says I don't believe in having a theocracy he believes in separation of church and state um I mean he looks at most things through a Christian lens which is whatever more power to him um but you know he he does call out his own bullshit like he's literally like he's apologized and said that he was wrong about selling the Iran war he believed everything he believed all the propaganda and sold it on Fox the whole Iran war until he said he went there in 2003 and saw what was going on and he's like oh my god this is complete and utter bullshit and then he stopped doing it and he started going against the narrative on that so I don't know uh to me I mean it seems like he's being very genuine because what he's doing is like I think it's uniting more Americans than it's dividing I think the it's the the Fox and CNNs are doing the most dividing

• 2:06:58Danny Jones?

  And it's only really effective on the older, the boomers.

• 2:07:01Speaker 03

  I mean, the right wing is largely flipping. Yeah, I mean, yeah.

• 2:07:06Danny Jones?

  The next president, the next president's not going to be able to run without addressing this. I feel like the, the younger generations are going to hold them accountable. Right. And like, I don't think anyone, I don't even think anyone believes that a president's going to change anything in this country anymore. Like, we've seen so many presidents just do the same things. The same bullshit, the same wars.

• 2:07:27Speaker 03

  It's probably the single thread that unites all of American foreign policy under every administration since we've been alive. Or in, or longer. Yeah, I don't really know. I think that's part of the thing is that everybody can kind of sense this unbelievable.

• 2:07:44Speaker 03

  Corruption and, and destruction. And it's very easy to channel that rage and point it at other things, right? Not to bring it back to all the grifters. I mean, I want to keep talking about this too. But it's very easy to go evil power, bad man thing. Me, underdog, listen to me. Right. That's kind of, because we're all experiencing this. We're all very frustrated, right? How do we stop our, how do I stop my tax dollars from going to my government murdering people? I don't like that. I don't, I want it to stop and I don't know how to do it. I don't know what to do. You know, um, and so that frustration is very easy to channel.

• 2:08:20Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:08:20Speaker 03

  Into other things.

• 2:08:21Danny Jones?

  And it, it's, I think in no matter what, what part of society you're looking at. I think a pattern that I've recognized that is probably accurate is that psychopaths typically gather around the top.

• 2:08:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:08:35Danny Jones?

  Of anything. They're usually at the top level of most things.

• 2:08:39Speaker 03

  Unfortunately, that is true. The type of person that, that you have to lust for power to get it in this kind of.

• 2:08:45Danny Jones?

  You gotta be willing to cut any throat.

• 2:08:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:08:47Danny Jones?

  Any throat to get there.

• 2:08:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:08:49Danny Jones?

  To climb that ladder.

• 2:08:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, I don't know. Yeah. My transitioning into adulthood was, was a bit of a disillusion, disillusioning experience, I think. When you, when you come of age and, and realize that. Who is in power and. How unlikely it is to change just by virtue of the power dynamic and I don't know, I'm a big Mom Donnie fan. Let's keep that going. I love Mom Donnie. Who doesn't like Mom Donnie?

• 2:09:15Danny Jones?

  A lot of people don't like Mom Donnie.

• 2:09:17Speaker 03

  Well, for very bad reasons. I

• 2:09:20Danny Jones?

  Him and Trump got along great. I think Trump loved him. Trump was fucking smiling face I've ever seen.

• 2:09:25Speaker 03

  Think that number one, Trump just wants everyone to like him. And number two, he's just, you know, can recognize

• 2:09:33Danny Jones?

  Ain't doing a very good job.

• 2:09:34Speaker 03

  Grassroots. Yeah. But it's, it's hard to not recognize the fervor surrounding Mom Donnie and like, want to be, want to like bask in the, in the, in that flame and, and like, try to channel that. So I don't know. I, that, he, he's, I, I hope we see more figures like him.

• 2:09:52Danny Jones?

  Yeah, I'm skeptical of any people that are really young, getting into politics like that, who speak so confidently and like, they know shit. Like, maybe he's good, maybe he's not. I don't know a lot about him. I mean, I know like, a very high level about it. But

• 2:10:06Speaker 03

  Well, he's like a Bernie figure.

• 2:10:07Danny Jones?

  There's a guy who's running for the fucking governor of Florida. Fishback is his last name. He's like 30 years old, maybe. And he's an immigrant from Colombia. And like, he's like, the first thing I want to do is, I'm gonna abolish all foreign ties to Israel. We're not gonna take any Israeli money in any parts of the US government, or else you're out. Or any part of the Florida government, or you're out.

• 2:10:28Speaker 03

  Got my vote.

• 2:10:29Danny Jones?

  And, and his other one is, he wants to do an instant moratorium on any immigration. Cut off all immigration, even though he immigrated here from Colombia. And the other one is, he wants to do a 50% sin tax on OnlyFans.

• 2:10:44Danny Jones?

  Cause of his religious thing. And like, I have a weird sort of like

• 2:10:48Speaker 03

  Even people who are just doing like basket weaving or something. They're just like, what about me?

• 2:10:51Danny Jones?

  Right, right? Go to Patreon. Sell your ass on Patreon. Um, I just have this, I don't know. I have like an allergic reaction to people who are so young and there's no way he can have that much experience in the world. Maybe I'm wrong. But like when I was his age, I was such a fucking moron.

• 2:11:09Speaker 03

  Yeah, but how much experience do you need to know that genocide is bad? Like not that much. I think that it doesn't, and Trump has proven that you can be president with zero experience.

• 2:11:20Danny Jones?

  Governor of a fucking state at that age?

• 2:11:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, look.

• 2:11:24Danny Jones?

  I don't know. I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong.

• 2:11:25Speaker 03

  I know nothing about this guy. First time I've ever hearing about, just speaking very generally, I think young people are less likely to be corrupt and are, and, and are more likely to run for legitimate reasons, just trying to combat corruption because somebody's got to do it. Like, America's just continuing in this direction that is going to, I don't know what's going to happen. I mean, we're, I, we're becoming more and more authoritarian under Trump and it's just, I don't know where that leads. Um, and so people need to get, young people need to get into, into government and you, you gotta go on a case by case basis, right? I'm not saying anyone who's under 30 or under 40 is going to be great for the job, but they're less likely to be beholden to special interests. They're less likely to, you know, I don't know. That's how I see it.

• 2:12:09Danny Jones?

  What is your take or your view on, um, the government, government surveillance on American citizens?

• 2:12:17Speaker 03

  It's terrifying.

• 2:12:19Danny Jones?

  So you're not pro that?

• 2:12:20Speaker 03

  No.

• 2:12:21Danny Jones?

  Okay, good.

• 2:12:22Speaker 03

  Absolutely not. Um, this, and I do a lot of, uh, stuff with Peter, you know, Teal and Palantir. That's where this is coming from. And, um, he is.

• 2:12:30Danny Jones?

  So you're, you're, you're a Snowden fan? You're not, you don't think Snowden's a traitor?

• 2:12:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, I'm a Snowden fan. Um, and so, uh, what I was saying earlier, way, kind of at the beginning of, when we were talking about like oligarchy promoted, um, rhetoric, right? It's all, so Teal, Teal pays Eric Weinstein and I imagine probably Brett as well, but, um, like that, that's the angle.

• 2:12:54Danny Jones?

  Yeah. What does Eric do for Teal? He's like the financial or something for him?

• 2:12:58Speaker 03

  Yeah. Managing director.

• 2:12:59Danny Jones?

  Oh, managing director of Teal Capital. Interesting.

• 2:13:01Speaker 03

  Eric's job is to go, is to spew horseshit on podcasts. That, that's what Eric's job is like. Eric's job is to manipulate public perception of-

• 2:13:10Danny Jones?

  You think that's his job?

• 2:13:11Speaker 03

  Yes, that is his job.

• 2:13:12Danny Jones?

  He gets paid to do that.

• 2:13:13Speaker 03

  That's what he's doing. Yeah, that's what he's doing. That's all he does. He doesn't do anything else.

• 2:13:17Danny Jones?

  What do you think about Lex Friedman?

• 2:13:18Speaker 03

  Lex is, uh, he reached out to me once because he wanted me to debate. There's this, uh, this particular creationist chemist that I have, um, kind of taken through the wringer and he wanted us to appear on his show and I was like, okay, yeah, I'll do it. And then it kind of fizzled out. Um, I've heard a lot of stuff about just like, he has no affiliation with MIT, like that stuff. I don't know, that kind of thing. I mean, yeah, Lex is kind of just platforming Elon Musk and like, you know, a lot of these things. I don't know.

• 2:13:45Danny Jones?

  Uh, yeah, the, the surveillance thing. Yeah, that's, that's one of the most insane things because there's, something just came out, I think yesterday, where, uh, Mike Johnson literally did a 180 on all that stuff where now they're like ushering in all these new, uh, surveillance things for like these tech companies where they can actually like surveil us and track the social media stuff and like, I think with that, find out exactly what that was because I remember Glenn Greenwald did an interview with Mike Johnson before he was elected. And he was saying how government surveillance keeps him up at night. He loses sleep over that and that he wants to fight against it.

• 2:14:25Speaker 03

  I'm terrified about it.

• 2:14:26Danny Jones?

  And now he's out here fucking promoting it.

• 2:14:28Speaker 03

  My fear, my fear is, and the thing is that I see us moving this way already, right? I see like Trump's Gestapo in the streets and things. Um, a situation where you have all of our DNA through ancestry.com or whatever those things. You have deep fakes, you have AI, you have all of these things. If you have a totalitarian police state such that any dissident can be framed for any crime and be jailed immediately, that's, I feel like that is what certain people want and I feel like we are inching in that direction.

• 2:15:01Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:15:01Speaker 03

  Uh, and I'm very, very scared of that.

• 2:15:04Danny Jones?

  Yes, me too. I think that's certainly what people like Peter Thiel want.

• 2:15:09Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 2:15:09Danny Jones?

  They want to have the ultimate control and I feel like- I mean, just based on some of his emails, I mean, he had so many goddamn emails with Jeffrey Epstein. It's insane. And like, looking at some of those and like, seeing how he communicates and like, I don't know how much attention you paid to it, but he was like, very like, there was like a 20 paragraph list of all the foods that he could and couldn't eat that was sent to like Jeffrey Epstein and for their chefs.

• 2:15:36Speaker 03

  Because of how often he's there, they need to have a special kitchen for him.

• 2:15:38Danny Jones?

  He's like a hypochondriac. He's like, super paranoid, like, hyper, hyper paranoid of everything.

• 2:15:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:15:43Danny Jones?

  From, from his own health to external shit. And that, that, okay, here's the surveillance thing. The FISA surveillance vote sparks fierce debate as Congress splits on warrantless monitoring. Donald Trump says he's working very hard with White House Republicans to expend section, extend Section 702 without changes. What does that actually mean? When did this get published, by the way? It's like, a day ago. Okay.

• 2:16:10Danny Jones?

  A controversial law that grants US government sweeping powers for warrantless surveillance is set to expire next week. Replacing it has inspired fierce debate within the White House and Congress, including a scheduled vote, a scheduled vote canceled the day of. A coalition of progressive Democrats and far-right Republicans is pushing for reform on Section 702 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, but they face strong bipartisan position from lawmakers advocating for an 18-month renewal with no changes, in line with Donald Trump's demands. House GOP leaders delayed the vote on a clean extension of the Section 702 on Wednesday after

• 2:16:51Danny Jones?

  the chamber ruled committee, the chamber's rules committee approved the measure on Tuesday night. So, what are they gonna do? Go to the bottom?

• 2:17:05Danny Jones?

  Go down. Surveillance, surveillance under section 702 can continue through March 2027, even if Congress does not extend the law by then because it operates through year-long certifications, approved, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Okay, so there's a fight within Congress whether, whether or not to renew this warrantless surveillance on US citizens. That's crazy.

• 2:17:33Speaker 03

  It's terrifying.

• 2:17:33Danny Jones?

  That's crazy, especially when all the people on the, on both sides literally like ran on getting rid of this stuff because nobody fucking wants it.

• 2:17:41Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, the citizenry certainly doesn't, doesn't want it. It's about how well you can manipulate people. I mean, that's why all the rhetoric has to be about, and you know, not to bring it back to Zionism, but a lot of what is this, this is being used for is to people who speak out against Israel on, you know, you have people that are, that have valid visas that are being abducted and deported and something based on, and I mean, that's not any like high-tech monitoring, but you know, if this is what they're doing with social media activity, what do you think they're going to be doing with, when they're monitoring text messages and things like that?

• 2:18:14Danny Jones?

  Yeah. Yeah, look, man, at the end of the day, no matter what our beliefs are, me and you are both American citizens who both have kids in this country and we want our kids to be healthy, safe, to thrive and whatever.

• 2:18:29Speaker 03

  Not drafted into the military.

• 2:18:30Danny Jones?

  Not drafted into the military, not to go die for Israel.

• 2:18:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:18:34Danny Jones?

  And to have, to have good lives. And I think that's a huge thing that, that we have in common. And I think it's like super important that any elected officials in the United States or that run the United States government, they shouldn't have dual loyalty to another country. They shouldn't have two passports. They should have one passport. They shouldn't have a get out of jail free card in case everything fucking collapses here.

• 2:18:56Speaker 03

  In fact, they're trying to make it illegal for citizens to be dual citizens.

• 2:19:01Danny Jones?

  For citizens to be dual, oh, oh, for so.

• 2:19:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, like we.

• 2:19:05Danny Jones?

  If you're American, you can't have another citizenship.

• 2:19:07Speaker 03

  I'm working on getting my Italian citizenship right now.

• 2:19:09Danny Jones?

  Well, that's weird.

• 2:19:09Speaker 03

  Because I, I want that. Like, if we get to that totalitarian police state, I'm fucking out of here. You know what I mean? Uh, so.

• 2:19:17Danny Jones?

  Right, right. Well, that's, I don't know how I feel about that. That's probably not great. But certainly if you're in the government, you shouldn't, and you're making the laws in this country, and you're dictating how people should live, how people's lives should.

• 2:19:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:19:29Danny Jones?

  Be run.

• 2:19:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think that it's, what this conflict has done is it just has brought it to the forefront. You now have the vast majority of the public going, why are we sending billions of dollars to Israel every year? Why are we doing this?

• 2:19:43Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:19:44Speaker 03

  Why? And it, it unfortunately, I mean, like, I will give credit where credit is due. Tucker Carlson, like, has this very loyal right-wing following that traditionally would kind of just go along with.

• 2:19:56Danny Jones?

  And I've never seen, I've never seen in my lifetime, for as long as I've been paying, paying attention to politics,

• 2:20:02Danny Jones?

  I've never seen such a vast amount of people flip on their support for a president. Like, I've seen so many people who have supported Trump hardcore in this last election that have done a complete fucking 180 on him.

• 2:20:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, which is why.

• 2:20:15Danny Jones?

  I never saw that on Obama when he started fucking carpet bombing Yemen.

• 2:20:18Speaker 03

  That's true. Yeah, yeah. No, I, because it wasn't talked about as much. I mean, if you don't watch Fox News anyway.

• 2:20:24Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:20:25Speaker 03

  Or, but the thing is, you know, they, like, right, the right wing also want, uh, endorses that pub, that foreign policy. So, there wasn't even that much impetus to, to talk about it. I mean, you could, I don't, I didn't watch Fox News. I didn't know what they were saying about it.

• 2:20:37Danny Jones?

  I think it's the combination of all this, this exposure of the Israel conflict and the Israel lobby, combined with the Epstein files, which is like, the Epstein files is another thing. I don't understand. Why aren't people in the street marching and protesting against this shit?

• 2:20:52Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah, they're they're just relying on trying to, you know, get the next news cycle like just desperately move on. And but yeah, with Israel, it's we're not moving on because they're they're like, it's ongoing, right? They are now trying to take over Lebanon. They're like, it's just they're trying to expand. I mean, it's very, very obvious what's going on. You know, I don't know. I I wish it's just funny because like this now this is just a suck like I don't have any expertise in all of the politics that we've been talking about. I'm passionate about being anti-Israel. But, you know, I'd love to to like, dig into a particular anti-science charlatan or something, you know, be very prepared. But

• 2:21:34Danny Jones?

  We should do a debate. We should set up a debate with someone. What topic do you think you'd be most confident in debating?

• 2:21:40Speaker 03

  I mean, well, okay, Flat Earth, but nobody cares about that.

• 2:21:44Danny Jones?

  Yeah, I have one friend who does always like he's shoving shit in my face every time I see him. He's like, look at this. Look at this. This is the fucking map.

• 2:21:49Speaker 03

  Yeah. But Korea, yeah.

• 2:21:51Danny Jones?

  It's like, what's the point? Why do we waste all this money on rockets? Then what's the point? It's such a waste of money.

• 2:21:55Speaker 03

  No reason. Yeah, to keep the deception alive.

• 2:21:58Danny Jones?

  Yeah, that's the dumbest one.

• 2:21:59Speaker 03

  I've debated a few Flat Earthers. I've debated some creationists. So that's a whole thing. I don't know who I mean, I it's hard to say. I mean, the problem is that anyone that I would debate, it's not really a debate, right? It's just me doing my best job to expose a charlatan in real time. Because the things that I debate, there's very little debate in with with scientific topics, right? There's there's debate that's going on within the scientific community, and people publish different papers that that propose different ideas, and then maybe invalidate another idea. And so there's, you know, there's there's that going on. But when you have there, when you have these debates in in the public discourse, it's science versus pseudoscience. That's almost invariably the case. So it's not even

• 2:22:44Speaker 03

  anymore about bringing the the science to the table. It's also about disarming the rhetoric, disarming the tactics of the person that is lying. But I have done that. I'm pretty confrontational and combative. So I do better than most academics in a in a debate scenario. So I do it when I find that it is something that that I think is going to, you know, push the needle in a direction if I can show everyone this this person's a fraud. This person is lying. And demonstrate it in real time. So

• 2:23:15Danny Jones?

  Yeah, maybe we can set something up like on the whole vaccine topic. But the problem is, no one will see it on YouTube.

• 2:23:24Speaker 03

  Well, that's not true. I mean, me and Dan Wilson did one with Pierre Corey and

• 2:23:27Danny Jones?

  That is true. That is true. But for some reason-

• 2:23:29Speaker 03

  They regret it deeply, but it did occur.

• 2:23:31Danny Jones?

  I, I loved that. I loved that. I learned a lot on that. And it's amazing to see, it's amazing to see the push and pull between you guys and see how certain people react, see people, you know, it's really telling when you see somebody lose their cool, right? And I appreciated that you guys did that. And it was, I agreed with each side at different points. And I thought it was very illuminating to, to see that. I wish more people would see it. But unfortunately, on, on this channel, for some reason, there's something that happens. Whenever we do this vaccine topic, the videos never go anywhere, or they get in trouble, they get flagged for some reason.

• 2:24:09Speaker 03

  That's very fishy, because there is, there's a mountain of monetized content, both from anti-vaxxers and debunkers.

• 2:24:16Danny Jones?

  I agree with you.

• 2:24:17Speaker 03

  So, do you have like a partner manager at YouTube?

• 2:24:20Danny Jones?

  I have had many partner managers at YouTube.

• 2:24:22Speaker 03

  We kind of, I've cycled through a few. I do have one right now.

• 2:24:26Danny Jones?

  So there's two topics that I've been, had videos nuked off YouTube for, and it's the UFO topic, and then, and then the vaccine topic. And I, I had a phone call with a guy, one of my original partner managers, who had like, put me up to the boss partner manager, or whatever, about a video I did on UFOs, about this guy who's a UFO, allegedly a UFO abductee. And it was like, going crazy viral for the first few weeks. And it was at maybe like 900,000 views by like, I don't know, maybe like seven, or maybe like 12 days into it. And I was watching it every day, watching it climb, watching it climb. And then, on Christmas Eve, it went from getting like, 20,000 views an hour-

• 2:25:09Speaker 03

  Got throttled.

• 2:25:09Danny Jones?

  -to two views an hour. And I looked at all the data, or whatever, and saw that like, all of a sudden, it was getting no reach. And then, I was going on YouTube and typing in like, the name of the guy, to see where it was ranking with everything else. And it was always at the top, always at the top, always at the top. Then that, that day where it dropped, I would search him. And then, I couldn't, I could scroll for fucking days, and I would never find it. I would, I could even search Danny Jones podcast, this guy's name, nothing. I would find fucking History Channel videos. There was even a video that somebody did where they ripped the podcast and did commentary on it. That was coming up. That's like the fifth one down.

• 2:25:40Speaker 03

  Right, and not the original.

• 2:25:42Danny Jones?

  So I called this guy from YouTube, and I was talking to him about it. And he's like, alright, let me look, blah, blah, blah. Okay, I don't see any red flags on your account. You didn't, this video did not violate any terms of service.

• 2:25:50Speaker 03

  Terms of service, right, yeah.

• 2:25:51Danny Jones?

  He goes, "I've seen this happen a couple of times. Whenever this happens, it's above my pay grade. It's the floor above me." Basically is what he said, so whatever the fuck that means.

• 2:25:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, the algorithm can turn on a dime, but it's weird that, that the precise, that the search result wouldn't show it, right? It should just be unbiased matching keywords to pull it up.

• 2:26:11Danny Jones?

  Yeah, totally.

• 2:26:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, I don't know. I've had, I've had some funny stuff like that. I've never had it quite that bad, but it definitely, yeah, there's stuff that definitely appears to get throttled. And then also, sometimes it's a little bit, um, when you violate terms of service. Like actually, the first Bart Sabrell one that I did, just because I showed footage of Buzz punching him in the face, it got, uh,

• 2:26:32Danny Jones?

  Copyrighted?

• 2:26:33Speaker 03

  Age restricted for that.

• 2:26:34Danny Jones?

  Oh, really?

• 2:26:34Speaker 03

  Yeah. Whereas part two, I show the same clip, like I, I actually keep cutting to Buzz punching him in the face, cause it's so funny. And I use it as like a palate cleanser in between like his talking points.

• 2:26:45Danny Jones?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:26:45Speaker 03

  And that one didn't get age restricted, and I show it more times than in the first one.

• 2:26:48Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:26:48Speaker 03

  Um, I don't know. It's, it's very, it's, yeah, you, it's, it is tempting to go conspiratorial with it and I, and it may or may not be true. I don't really know. Uh, I know the algorithm is funny and not everyone really fully knows how it works, but, uh,

• 2:27:03Danny Jones?

  That's the problem. It should be transparent, how it works. Um, but, you know, end of the day, bro, it was really nice to meet you and talk to you.

• 2:27:12Speaker 03

  As well.

• 2:27:13Danny Jones?

  Whether we, uh, agree, I think we agree on probably most, probably a lot of things we don't.

• 2:27:16Speaker 03

  And I'm sure I could convince you on the rest.

• 2:27:17Danny Jones?

  Yeah, right. My goal is to just turn, to turn you around on one of my conspiracy theories.

• 2:27:21Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 2:27:22Danny Jones?

  We gotta get you in here to debate. We gotta get you in here to debate fucking, uh, who knows? We'll find someone.

• 2:27:26Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:27:26Danny Jones?

  Um, but my friend Julian Dory has a great theory that is very relevant to this. It's called the, he calls it the Wawa theory. He lives in New Jersey. He says, you go online, you go on Twitter and YouTube and you find all these people screaming at each other, calling each other names over, you know, what fucking political party they like better. And he goes, "Then I walk outside and I go to Wawa and I see the girl with the fucking nose ring and the purple hair, holding the door for the guy with the Vietnam hat."

• 2:27:53Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:27:54Danny Jones?

  It's not like that in real life, bro. People don't. Really act like that towards each other and you gotta fucking go outside and touch grass sometimes.

• 2:27:59Speaker 03

  There's a lot of truth to that. There's a lot of truth to that. Yeah. But ultimately, the, the direction the government goes depends on voting behavior and that is influenced by the online side guys. So a little bit of both.

• 2:28:11Danny Jones?

  Yeah. The, the internet definitely throws fuel on it. Yeah. But thanks again, man. I really appreciate it. Tell people where they can find you, all your, all your stuff on social media.

• 2:28:19Speaker 03

  Professor Dave explains.

• 2:28:20Danny Jones?

  Perfect.

• 2:28:21Speaker 03

  That'll do it.

• 2:28:21Danny Jones?

  Cool. We'll link it all below. We have Patreon questions for him. Oh, yes, we do. We have Patreon questions for you. We'll do this after the podcast. All right. That's all. Okay. Good night, folks.

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