Pod Insights Song Exploder Suki Waterhouse - Back in Love About this episode Suki Waterhouse is a singer-songwriter, actress, and model from London. She released her first single in 2016, and her first album, I Can’t Let Go, in 2022, on Sub Pop. You might have seen her in the show Daisy Jones & The Six, which came out in 2023. Since then, she’s also had her first child, with her partner Robert Pattinson. And all of that history figured into her new album, Loveland. For this episode, Suki told me about how she made the song “Back in Love” with her longtime collaborators, producer Jules Apollinaire and songwriter Natalie Findlay. "Back in Love" was the first single from her album, but it was the last song that was written for it.
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Transcript Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:00 Hrishikesh Hirway? You're listening to Song Exploder, where musicians take apart their songs and, piece by piece, tell the story of how they were made. I'm Rishi Kesh Hirway.
0:11 Hrishikesh Hirway? I'm going to be on tour, playing some shows this fall. I'm going to be in London on Wednesday, November 18th. I'm going to be performing solo at Rough Trade Records on Denmark Street, and I'm going to be in conversation about my music moderated by one of my favorite actors and writers, Matthew Bainton. And a ticket to the show also gets you a copy of my album on vinyl or CD. And in December, I'm going to be on tour supporting S. Carrie. We're going to be playing a bunch of shows in the Northeast US. So I hope to see you in one of those places. You can find all the details and get links to tickets at songexploder.net/live. That's songexploder.net/live.
0:55 Hrishikesh Hirway? This episode is sponsored by Tidal. If you're an artist or if you know somebody making music, you should know about Tidal Upload. It's a way to share and sell music without the usual barriers. You can upload your music directly to Tidal at no cost. You decide how you want to release it. You can share it publicly with Tidal listeners, or you can keep it private until you're ready. Or you can sell your music directly through Tidal Upload. Your music will also be considered by Tidal's editorial team for their playlists. And if your track is selected for their spotlight program, you'll get $1,000 bonus and you'll be on one of their marquee playlists. And now, Tidal has dropped its platform fee to 0%, which means you keep more of your earnings there than on any other platform.
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2:41 Hrishikesh Hirway? exclusive for Song Exploder listeners. That's L-E-E-S-A dot com with the promo code SONGEXPLOTER for 25% off select mattresses plus an extra $50 off. And let them know I sent you in the survey after checkout. Lisa dot com, the promo code SONGEXPLOTER. This episode has some explicit language. Suki Waterhouse is a singer, songwriter, actress, and model from London. She released her first single in 2016 and her first album, I Can't Let Go, in 2022 on Sub Pop. You might have seen her in the show Daisy Jones and the Six, which came out in 2023. Since then, she's also had her first child with her partner, Robert Pattinson,
3:24 Hrishikesh Hirway? and all of that history figured into her new album, Loveland. For this episode, Suki told me about how she made the song "Back in Love" with her longtime collaborators, producer Jules Appolinaire and songwriter Natalie Findlay. "Back in Love" was the first single from her album, but it's the last song that was written for it.
3:58 Speaker 01 I'm Suki Waterhouse.
4:01 Hrishikesh Hirway? What was going on in your life around the time when you first started working on Back in Love?
4:06 Speaker 01 It was in December and I kept flying back to London to work with my longtime collaborators, Jules Verpolina and Natalie Finley, who I met when I was like 18, 19. And I was a huge fan of Nat's. She has a project called Finley. And I got talking to them and that was kind of like how we first met and started making music together. And now we've been doing it for, yeah, longer than, over a decade. It's the most amazing thing when you find your tribe. It's hard to explain like how much of a joy it is and how much of like a shorthand we have. And it's like the best thing ever. It's always such a giggle working with them. It's very kind of like, forget about the outside world.
4:50 Speaker 01 A lot of the times we hole up in their kind of studio in East London where they also live. Like it's an old warehouse that's kind of like all open, their dogs running around. But this song in particular, I was kind of at the end of writing and the album didn't feel quite complete yet. I just knew that there was a song left.
5:16 Hrishikesh Hirway? As in you didn't have enough songs for the album, like you needed more?
5:20 Speaker 01 I definitely didn't need more. Yeah. I think I had like 70 songs for this. But it's just knowing. It's like you know, when you've given all the blood that you have. And I knew especially with Nat and Jules that we hadn't like quite reached that peak yet. So the phrase going around that day was like, if it's not like literally what we think is like a classic, then we're not recording it.
5:50 Speaker 01 That day that we started writing was actually like not going very well at all. Me and Jules, we had this loop going and he was playing guitar and we had this song called, "If a lady was your lover." "If a lady was your lover." And it was like so.
6:12 Speaker 01 And Nat was just like not having it. And she was like, this is weird. This sucks. This is not universal. This is like not the thing that we were setting out to do. And just like the day had like really gotten away from us.
6:31 Speaker 01 Then I had like this, yeah, something that I just shouldn't have even planned in the first place. But I had an audition, like a Zoom audition for a TV show. It was absolutely terrible. Like I'm balancing on the couch because the studio is very dark in there. There's like no over lighting. It's all just lamps and everything. And the casting director's like, this is terrible. Like, I can't see you. Like, you can't do this audition. And I'm like, oh, I'm so sorry. Like, it was just like a mess. But when I came back into the room, they'd been like locked away together. And Nat had been, yeah, I guess she has like a mouth trumpet going.
7:18 Speaker 01 We're swooping now, I think. Jules had got the sitar out and had made this intro.
7:33 Speaker 01 And I walked in and I was like, oh, this feels like the gates of heaven are opening.
7:44 Speaker 01 It's funny, like so much of our work is like trying things and like, yeah, making like voice memos and doing things that like don't end up going anywhere. Or we kind of just like forget about them. Or we're just like, yeah, distracted by something or like ordering food or like playing with the dog. And then there's suddenly like a collective energy where we all start like actually kind of like focusing.
8:15 Speaker 01 That's Jules translating the mouth trumpet melody onto the word, let's say.
8:32 Speaker 01 That's me.
8:39 Speaker 01 Back in love like came out of my mouth. And me and Nat were giggling about it because we were like, maybe we were talking like about TikToks that we'd seen or something, but I was like, oh, you know, like when like a man fixes a light bulb or something and then you're like, oh, I'm back in love or like they mowed the lawn or took out the trash or like something like that. And you're like, wow, you're like, you got your shit down. Like, yes, I've been with Rob for like eight years now and it's like, you're always in love and then sometimes you just get like, oh my God, like a huge pang. And you're just like, I'm obsessed. So that was like where the back in love phrase came from. A lot of the times, like honestly, like if we just get three words, just like a little phrase,
9:23 Speaker 01 you're like, okay, we can build around this.
9:29 Speaker 01 Once that intro came out, the music flowed really easily.
9:34 Hrishikesh Hirway? Is Jules playing all the instruments or most of the instruments?
9:36 Speaker 01 Jules plays everything.
9:40 Speaker 01 And I remember like the opening lyrics, like loneliness is a feather bed.
9:49 Hrishikesh Hirway? Where did that lyric come from?
9:50 Speaker 01 I like started working when I was like 15, like I started modeling when I was 15 and definitely like very young. It opened like so many doors for me and like got, you know, opened me up to like so much culture and traveled a lot. It's like you're living your dreams in so many ways, but, but there's like a loneliness in that. When you like start doing something that just involves like a lot of travel, you're just like, you're not a great, you can be a great friend like over the phone, but you're not there for all the moments and you stop kind of like going out every week with the same group of people and it kind of falls away. And so that's like a isolation in that lyric.
10:34 Speaker 01 I still wanted it to feel glamorous, but it's like being in a beautiful bed like by yourself or feeling by yourself.
10:45 Speaker 01 And then Nat just suddenly like came out with a Eyes closed, sitting in silence.
10:54 Speaker 01 I was like putting myself in the place of like, what's it like when I'm present with myself? Which isn't that fucking often, but I like daydream about sitting by myself in silence.
11:23 Speaker 01 And there I can like hear the musical references. I think we'd listened to Dusty Springfield, Son of a Preacher and like Primal Scream, Loaded, like 60s psychedelic. That was like the musical feeling.
11:42 Hrishikesh Hirway? Yeah, I feel like that comes through a lot. Has that kind of music been a big part of your musical identity for a long time?
11:49 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah, I think it is. I think there's always been this like draw to the 60s and I remember when I was like 18, I would like completely dress like a mod. And I was always in like white tights and and I've always, yeah, it sounds like really cringy to say, but I kind of felt like I should have been there. I know it's that, that sounds like so cringy. I sound like such a dick.
12:14 Hrishikesh Hirway? And what about the end of the verse? The shooting the apple off your head and sugar and violence?
12:18 Speaker 01 I think in a lot of this album, I definitely was feeling quite like volatile. You know, you wouldn't really think it's like a post having a baby record, but there's like definitely a lot of like raging postpartum hormones going on. And I feel like, do you know what I mean? I feel like, like in those lines sometimes that were coming out, it's almost like this maternal, like, don't fuck with me kind of thing. And like, there's a kind of like protective ragedness. I feel like there's this part of me that's like, this craziness of me that's like been unlocked. Where like, I've always been like a very chill person and like, anything goes. And like I was saying, like when I first started working, it was like, that's like a very much an industry where you're like,
13:02 Speaker 01 having to be like pleasing and like being pleasing visually and like, that's like probably stuff that I'm like, trying to like overcome still today, but like, yeah, now I feel like I've got like a loaded gun. And there's like this thing in my life that I have something to like protect and something to lose now. It's made me more fierce. Like I'm obsessed with like mother's instinct at the moment. And like, I've just become like more aware to listen to my instincts. That's actually something that's kind of like playing into being an artist, I think, actually is like, when you're like making your record and choosing the songs and like, you make something like a very pure way and like, you don't really care what anybody else thinks when you're making it.
13:44 Speaker 01 And then there's like the showing it to people and do the like label like it? Do your team like it? What do they think about it? And like, you can get like crushed quite quickly and like, if you really believe in it, sometimes you have to like go to like fight for stuff and sometimes you just get tired fighting and you like relent to something. And then you like, you're so fucking pissed that you did that, you know?
14:09 Hrishikesh Hirway? Did that happen at all with this song?
14:11 Speaker 01 So we wrote the chorus and I had written with Nat, "I'm losing my lust for life, praying for dark to light. Just when I thought it would end, I'm back in love again." So like, that is kind of like where my head was. I wasn't in the most positive state of mind like while writing it. So I remember like walking with my friend Poppy in Hyde Park the next day. I'm playing her the song and she's like such a good barometer. She's like basically A and R's my whole record. Like my friend, I can just watch her face and when it got to the chorus.
14:51 Speaker 01 I don't know, like the excitement kind of died a little bit. And so I remember like going to the studio that day after that walk. And I was like, hey, like, I think we've got to change that because it's not that explosion of joy. But Nat and Jules were like so kind of like happy with how it was. And yeah, I remember then we like kind of argued about it for a while because we had Just When I Thought It Would End and I felt like that was like weak. Just When I Thought It Would End, like, I was like, oh, that doesn't feel appealing to me. It's not lighting me up. Actually, I'm remembering now that part, like convincing them that we needed to change it. And then, you know, we like write one line and then we all start getting excited about it.
15:33 Speaker 01 And it's just like one of the coolest things because I think one of us will always have like kind of a strong idea if they really don't feel something. And, and then it's like kind of battle of the convincing, you know.
15:47 Hrishikesh Hirway? What did the lyrics end up becoming?
15:49 Speaker 01 I'm loving my loss for life. Turning the dark to light. Happiness hits me when I'm back in love again. And then like, once we got that, it was like, okay, I want to get to even more like, what kind of visuals can we have then? And it was like dancing around like back to jazz on the radio, back to beaches, away we go. That was Nat's line. That's such a Nat line to be able to kind of like back to beaches, away we go. I love that line.
16:19 Speaker 01 And then I remember I was thinking about like when I like walk around with Rob and we like go on walks together, just like late night walks. And when you just take the strange street home, we kind of go like, what about we just go like this way? And we go through like a, an alleyway or something. And like, we both like get really excited about going and getting lost on purpose, the enjoyment in there.
17:12 Hrishikesh Hirway? More with Suki Waterhouse after this.
17:25 Hrishikesh Hirway? I feel like the second verse is really different from the first verse.
17:28 Speaker 01 Yeah, it's kind of like the bridge and the second verse. So it has like a whole different melody to it.
17:48 Speaker 01 Nat and Joel also come to Long Pond, to Aaron Destner's studio, with me for a couple of days. And we had like an amazing couple of days upstate. And Aaron would like have these amazing wines for us every night. So we'd like all been making this like song to play Aaron to say thank you for having us. And it was like, "Aaron Destner, thank you for the good times and the sweet wine." And that's how we get to the sweet wine. And that's, you know, and then we're like, "Oh, pour another sweet wine." So I'm like laughing at myself, but that was a past like experience, like kind of winding its way into the song.
18:31 Speaker 01 Oh yeah, that's us clicking our fingers.
18:36 Hrishikesh Hirway? Was that Joel singing?
18:37 Speaker 01 Yeah, the track is playing in the back and he's, "Pour a little sweet wine." It brings such a smile to my face and it's such a great example of our process in the studio and why we kind of get along so well musically as well as personally. Cause like I just, I love imperfection. I love bleed. I don't like things sounding so polished. Like I want to hear like actually what's happening in the room. And there's like, there's a magic going on in that room. And there's not like a preciousness between all of us of like, it has to be so perfect.
19:12 Hrishikesh Hirway? Okay, I have to ask you about this sound.
19:16 Speaker 01 That's the dog. That is the dog. That is hilarious that you've picked that up because that is such a Jules-ism. That he's put the dog in there.
19:25 Hrishikesh Hirway? It's their dog?
19:26 Speaker 01 Yeah, it's Otto. That's so funny. Their dog is the cutest dog in the world. He's quite crazy as well. And it's like a war between trying to record with things that Otto hasn't eaten. That, yeah, that if Otto isn't barking. It's coming back to me now that he put that in there.
19:46 Hrishikesh Hirway? I love it. It's like a percussion part.
19:48 Speaker 01 I love that you found that.
20:01 Speaker 01 The original intro was all on sitar. But at some point I was like, ah, I think it's trumpets. So Jules was like layering it with Mellotron.
20:22 Speaker 01 Until we kind of like later had, you know, real trumpets put in.
20:30 Speaker 01 Sam Ewan's is an amazing brass and horn arranger and he's played the horns.
20:41 Speaker 01 It kind of explodes at the end into this like massive triumphant outro. I remember just yelling into the microphone like, so back, I'm back. And we were kind of all figuring that out at the end and that was really fun.
21:21 Speaker 01 I feel like this record was like a pull between like the person I was and like the new person that's like emerging. But this song, I think, was about knowing I got through something, feeling like I'd like reconnected with myself.
21:39 Speaker 01 It's like such a huge change, having a child and like, yeah, been going through things that felt like very difficult, but I feel like I'm good. Like, the future feels like I'm excited about it. So, yeah, I think it was like, I wanted this song to be like a reclaiming and also joyful.
22:08 Hrishikesh Hirway? And now here's "Back in Love" by Suki Waterhouse in its entirety.
23:04 Speaker 02 I think you know what I need
23:09 Speaker 02 Oh, I'm loving my last fall Turning the dark to light Happiness hits me when I'm back in love again Back to jazz on the radio Back to beaches, away we go Taking the long way home Back in love again
23:44 Speaker 02 Oh, you're swimming too hard in time Pour a little sweet wine You know it's been a hard day's time Pour another sweet wine Don't you worry, I'm back in your arms again, baby
24:01 Speaker 02 You've been talking my love language, baby, back to me
24:07 Speaker 02 All of the flowers and kisses you sent me See you catching up fast, now you know how to please me Oh, I'm loving my last fall Turning the dark to light Happiness hits me when I'm back in love again Back to jazz on the radio Back to beaches, away we go Taking the long way home Back in love again
24:51 Speaker 02 Back in love again
25:25 Hrishikesh Hirway? To learn more, visit songexploder.net. You'll find links to buy or stream "Back in Love", and you can watch the music video.
25:33 Hrishikesh Hirway? This episode was produced by me, Craig Ely, Mary Dolan, Kathleen Smith, and Tiger Biscuit. The episode artwork is by Carlos Lerma, and I made the show's theme music and logo. Song Exploder is a proud member of Radiotopia from PRX, a network of independent, listener-supported, artist-owned podcasts. You can learn more about our shows at radiotopia.fm. If you'd like to hear more from me, you can subscribe to my newsletter. You can find a link to it on the Song Exploder website. You can also get a Song Exploder shirt at songexploder.net/shirt. I'm Rishi Keshi-Hirway. Thanks for listening.
26:14 Hrishikesh Hirway? Radiotopia.
26:17 Hrishikesh Hirway? From PRX.
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