The Mindset of Success in Marriage & Business w/Tom Bilyeu EP 1095

“We don’t create momentum by talking, we create it by doing.”Today's guest is Tom Bilyeu. Tom is a billion dollar entrepreneur who built his success from the ground up. He is the CEO and co-founder of Impact Theory, a media studio created to influence the cultural subconscious by producing empowering non-fiction & fiction content across multiple mediums. Tom also was the co-founder of Quest Nutrition, which he helped grow to be the 2nd fastest-growing Inc. 500 billion dollar company by 57,000%. In this episode Lewis and Tom discuss the types of personalities that Tom feels are intoxicating, the keys to relaxation and relationships. advice on marriage and creating rituals for success. Tom’s master plan to become bigger than Walt Disney, and so much more! For more go to: www.lewishowes.com/1095Check out his website: www.impacttheory.comThe Wim Hof Experience: Mindset Training, Power Breathing, and Brotherhood: https://link.chtbl.com/910-podA Scientific Guide to Living Longer, Feeling Happier & Eating Healthier with Dr. Rhonda Patrick: https://link.chtbl.com/967-podThe Science of Sleep for Ultimate Success with Shawn Stevenson: https://link.chtbl.com/896-pod Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Lewis Howes?

  This is episode number 1,095 with Tom Bilyeu.

• 0:06Lewis Howes?

  Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week, we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

• 0:28Lewis Howes?

  Frank Ocean said, "Work hard in silence, let your success be the noise." And Mark Twain said, "The secret of getting ahead is getting started." My guest today is my friend, Tom Bilyeu, and Tom is an incredible entrepreneur who's built his success from the ground up. He's the CEO and co-founder of Impact Theory, a media studio created to influence the cultural subconscious by producing empowering nonfiction and fiction content across multiple mediums. He was also the co-founder of Quest Nutrition, which he helped grow to be the second fastest growing Inc. 500 billion dollar company by 57,000%. And in this episode, we discuss the types of personalities that Tom feels are intoxicating,

• 1:12Lewis Howes?

  the keys to relaxation and relationships, advice on marriage and creating rituals for success, the one question Tom always asks himself when he makes mistakes, Tom's life beliefs, rules, and thoughts on identity, and his master plan to become bigger than Walt Disney. I'm excited about this. I hope you enjoy this as much as I do. If you do enjoy it, make sure to share this with someone that you think would be inspired as well. You can copy and paste the link wherever you're listening to this, or use lewishowes.com/1095 and text a few friends or post it on social media as well. If this is your first time here and you're enjoying it, click the subscribe button over on Apple Podcasts or Spotify right now and leave us a rating and review, sharing the part of this episode you enjoyed the most. Okay, in just a moment, the one and only Tom Bilyeu.

• 2:00Lewis Howes?

  Welcome everyone back to the School of Greatness. Very excited, my man Tom Bilyeu is in the house. Good to see you, brother.

• 2:05Tom Bilyeu?

  Good to see you too, dude. I'm really happy to be here.

• 2:08Lewis Howes?

  Very happy. You know, the last time you were on was five years ago.

• 2:11Tom Bilyeu?

  Are you serious?

• 2:12Lewis Howes?

  2015.

• 2:14Tom Bilyeu?

  Whoa!

• 2:15Lewis Howes?

  Five years ago, you were on the show.

• 2:17Tom Bilyeu?

  That doesn't seem possible.

• 2:18Lewis Howes?

  It feels like two and a half, three years ago.

• 2:20Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, I would've said three. Three is believable.

• 2:23Lewis Howes?

  What do you think has been the biggest accomplishment you've had in the last five years? And the biggest lesson you've learned? Since that previous interview?

• 2:32Tom Bilyeu?

  Well, I cannot believe that. So if it's five years, I hadn't even started Impact Theory yet.

• 2:36Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, that's crazy. Dude, that's insane.

• 2:40Tom Bilyeu?

  Co-founding Impact Theory with my wife.

• 2:41Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 2:42Tom Bilyeu?

  And very specifically because it's with my wife. That, I will say, is my biggest accomplishment by far. What was the second part of it?

• 2:49Lewis Howes?

  Biggest lesson in the last five years?

• 2:50Tom Bilyeu?

  Um...

• 2:54Tom Bilyeu?

  It... So, I'm at a place where it's more... I won't say that I'm not always sort of updating my way of thinking, but the big model of my life is pretty stable now. So, I would say that how well the things that I have cobbled together work in high-pressure situations?

• 3:12Lewis Howes?

  You mean like your values, your principles, your frameworks for life?

• 3:16Tom Bilyeu?

  How to deal with your emotions? That's probably the most important one. Like, when things are really going haywire, like, how do you center yourself? And I learned very early in my business career that the thing that... Because I looked back, there was a bunch of us at Awareness Technologies that were given the same spiel. "Don't think of yourself as an employee, think of yourself as a partner. If you act like a partner and, you know, achieve certain results, we'll actually make you a partner." And nobody did it. And so, I was just like, "Why am I the only one that's doing this?" And I realized that my ability to self-soothe was a huge part of that. So, other people would get upset, they would derail, they would take their eye off what they wanted to achieve because they were frustrated or whatever.

• 3:58Tom Bilyeu?

  And I could just bring myself back to center. Now, those are pretty small tests. And obviously, as things have gone on, you start dealing with... Big numbers. You start to realize, is this real? Like, is this, can I actually center myself when, you know, say, hundreds of millions of dollars are at stake? And then it's like, okay, this still works. And that was very encouraging, very encouraging. Because when you get a test that's sort of way beyond where you've been tested before, you're like, how's this going to work? Uh, so that was pretty extraordinary. How do you soothe under chaos? It is a For yourself? The, the big thing for me was recognizing that I'm having a biological experience and that I need to understand the brain, like the brain,

• 4:43Tom Bilyeu?

  not just the mind, which is incredibly important, but the brain. What is the brain doing? How does it hijack me? What is neurochemistry? What triggers it? Like, what are all the things that evolution has sort of primed me to do? It's what I call the physics of being human. So if you are a human, sort of regardless of intellect or experience or upbringing, there are a certain number of things that are true. They're as universal as universal is going to get. And, and look, nothing is perfectly universal, but some things are really close, like an internal dialogue and an internal dialogue that skews negative, right? Which is where most people start. Yeah. You get people like Kanye on one end, who just cannot see themselves doing anything but the best ever, the greatest and all that. And then you get people who actually don't have

• 5:28Tom Bilyeu?

  an internal dialogue, like there are no words going on in their head, which is crazy. Yeah. But nonetheless, true. But the vast majority of us live in a place where you have an internal dialogue and that internal dialogue is largely negative. And so, once you know, okay, cool, this is a trick of evolution. And my brain, this, so a guy named David Eagleman gave me this insight. He's a neuroscientist. This is so powerful. Louis, I hope it hits you the way it hit me. And he goes, think about this. Your brain is enclosed in a dark box. Light never touches your brain. Sound never reaches your brain. And everything you experience as being in the world out there beyond you is all happening in your brain. It is a virtual reality that your brain creates for you. And so I was like, my obsession with The Matrix.

• 6:13Tom Bilyeu?

  And I'm like, oh my God, even though I don't think we're actually living in a simulation, your brain is creating a simulation of the real world. And I forget, there's a, I had a physicist on the show. And he said, Tom, objective reality is the number of photons reflecting off of any object. That's reality. But you don't perceive it like that. You look at something, it's like, this is gray, that's white, your shirt is a sort of green.

• 6:36Lewis Howes?

  Sort of green, yeah.

• 6:37Tom Bilyeu?

  And like, you just perceive it like that. And so your brain is not making any attempt to represent reality. Your brain is making an attempt to keep you alive and help you navigate the world. And I just thought, oh, that's so interesting. So knowing the heuristics that my brain is using, the rules of thumb, the shorthand, it's not true, but it has this massive influence on my life. So something bad happens and you take it on as negative, it makes you feel badly about yourself. And so I just put in all these rules of like, well, that's not objectively true. So if I'm not worried about objective truth, what should be sort of the north star? And for me, the north star became utility, what's

• 7:17Tom Bilyeu?

  useful? And so once I shifted away from trying to like be objectively true about myself, realizing I'm probably not gonna ever nail that, but I can get to something that's very, very useful. And so then I wrote my beliefs down and sort of started thinking about value system. And I will end this rant with one thing, which is recognizing that brain plasticity is real. And so much of who we are, let's say it's roughly, science says it's roughly 50%, this is not me making it up, that 50% is hardwired, and you're not going to be able to do anything about it. But 50% is insanely malleable. And I love this quote, so great, that you can't make a racehorse out of a pig, but you can make a really fast

• 8:02Tom Bilyeu?

  pig. And I thought, okay, cool. So maybe I'll never be a racehorse, but I can be a really fast pig. And so whenever I'm feeling badly about myself, or something knocks me off center, I just come back to that idea of what's useful? How do you move forward? Like, even if you're not going to be the greatest of all time, does it benefit you to act as if you could become the greatest of all time if you pour yourself into it? And so I don't know that I'll ever end up being the greatest anything, but dude, acting like I can, and like, really practicing and moving through the world like I can become the greatest, has propelled me forward.

• 8:36Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, because acting like you can't, won't get you there.

• 8:39Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah.

• 8:39Lewis Howes?

  Won't make you good, probably, or great. If you're constantly obsessing over why I'm not good enough, or why I'll never become great. So acting like you can at least gives you a much better chance of getting somewhere than nowhere.

• 8:52Tom Bilyeu?

  100%. It's what I call the only belief that matters. The only belief that matters is that if I put time and energy into getting a new skill, I actually will get better at that thing. And if you then extrapolate that and say, and skills actually have utility, they matter. So knowing how to build a business that doesn't fall, or build a business, build a building that doesn't fall down is very, very useful.

• 9:14Lewis Howes?

  Or a business that doesn't fall apart.

• 9:16Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, that too, right? So those skills actually let you do things. And so that's become sort of my obsession is getting people to understand, you don't read a book to check a box, you don't go to school to impress your parents. You do it because the skill that you will acquire lets you do something in the world that other people can't do, or you wouldn't be able to do. And that has a material impact on your life.

• 9:35Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I feel like you and I are very similar in the fact that we talk about skills a lot, acquiring new skills. And I think when you have a down phase or a breakdown phase, that's when you should think about what are the skills I'm lacking that could benefit me so this doesn't happen again. I remember in my early twenties, I had a lot of free time because I was broken on my sister's couch. I just obsessed over skills. And when you learn a skill that is hard, that you don't think you can accomplish, and you actually master it, for me, I feel unstoppable. I feel like I can accomplish anything. I feel like even in a setting where I feel uncomfortable, as long as I know in the back of my head, I've got these other skills that maybe they don't know about that I could pull out at any time. It just makes me more confident. I don't know if you feel the same way about acquiring skills.

• 10:19Tom Bilyeu?

  100%.

• 10:20Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 10:20Tom Bilyeu?

  And it's interesting, and I know you talk about it. So some people in your audience, I'm sure have a sense. But I think of you very differently than they think of you. So I don't think of you as on-air talent, though you're obviously very gifted at that. Because I've spent so much time with you outside of that, like talking strategy around, how do you grow a podcast? How do you get good at YouTube? How do you build a business? Like whatever. And seeing how adept you are at those skills, like that's where it gets interesting. So that people understand that all the things you talk about, all the training that you do and stuff, it isn't the part that they see. Like the School of Greatness is sort of the tip of this very large iceberg of skills that you're building. And that to me is the fascination. When, when you're not focused on the tip, but you're focused on actually building

• 11:04Tom Bilyeu?

  that, that foundational set of skills.

• 11:08Tom Bilyeu?

  What you can do with your life and what you can make as the tip of the iceberg that other people will recognize becomes really, really interesting.

• 11:15Lewis Howes?

  It's interesting. My skill was never, I'm a good interviewer or a host or anything. I never learned that skill. My skill was, actually, my fear was connecting with people. And as a teenager, I learned that in order to become successful in my life, I had to learn how to connect with people and build relationships. So I turned a fear into a superpower of building relationships. Then translating that into, okay, let me interview people was another thing I had to learn, but it was never my gift from birth. It was a skill I had to acquire and overcome. What was the greatest fear in the last five years that you had to overcome that has now become a skill or a superpower for you?

• 11:56Tom Bilyeu?

  I think the only thing that I've sort of thought through like that is I feel like Kobe Bryant when he split from Shaq. And it was like he wanted to, he obviously had won a championship with Shaq, but could he win a championship on his own? And so my last company was so successful, but I did it with two partners. And so now to have a new partner in Lisa, it's like, okay, can I also lead this team to a championship? And so that drives me in a way that I find so fun of like, okay, cool. Hey, as a part of that group, smashed it. But can I do it over here? So that like reinvention, you know, trying things and letting myself feel the weight of like, hey, you gotta, you gotta prove

• 12:40Tom Bilyeu?

  it, buddy. Like, you know, you had a big success once. Can you do it again? And so doing that under new circumstances, to me, like, I love that shit. Like, I love the excitement of can I, will he, won't he? So that's a lot of fun. But that's something that I think if I thought about the world differently. So I don't value myself for achieving it. So whether I achieve it or not is irrelevant. But showing up every day and sincerely pursuing it is what I value myself for. And

• 13:09Tom Bilyeu?

  I like to feel that sort of weight of like, hey, maybe you won't. Maybe you're gonna fail. Maybe like it was only you as a part of this collective. Hey, you did a great job there. Or maybe it was just that moment in time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like you rode a wave. But like over here, can you create something from scratch? Can you repeat it? So, yeah, that it's not, it's not. I don't live in a space of letting that be a fear.

• 13:31Lewis Howes?

  Sure, sure.

• 13:32Tom Bilyeu?

  But it's like that is, it's a cousin of that feeling.

• 13:35Lewis Howes?

  That's a stepsister or something, yeah. What do you think all success starts with?

• 13:42Tom Bilyeu?

  Well, the fast answer is mindset. Going back to the only belief that matters. You said it. It's your, the way you act is ultimately all that matters. And the way you act follows what you allow yourself to believe. Or maybe a better way to say it is what you choose to believe. So if you choose to believe that your energy and efforts will result in more skill set, then you will actually put energy and effort into getting that, which means you actually will get the skill set. But if you think, well, my talent and intelligence are fixed. So no matter how much I work, I'm never gonna get better. Right? I can't be a fast pig. And if you don't think that putting time and energy into it will yield anything, then you won't put time and energy into it and you thusly won't get the skills. So, and if you don't have the skills, then you can't do the things other people can do.

• 14:24Tom Bilyeu?

  And so people just get stuck because they don't have the only belief that matters. So they don't put the time and energy. And so that's like where everything starts is, are you putting the time and energy into getting better? Yes or no?

• 14:36Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. And when do you get the most angry?

• 14:41Lewis Howes?

  And reactive? Are there things that make you reactive?

• 14:43Tom Bilyeu?

  Yes, very much.

• 14:44Lewis Howes?

  Maybe not angry, but like, this frustrates me. Don't do that.

• 14:48Tom Bilyeu?

  I think the same, and I think you're right. I'm not somebody who's quick to anger in 99.9% of my life.

• 14:54Lewis Howes?

  You might not scream with anger.

• 14:56Tom Bilyeu?

  But I want to, Louis. That 0.1% really does get from me exactly where you're going, which is.

• 15:07Tom Bilyeu?

  When I see somebody accept excuses, make excuses, do less than they can, and it impacts me. So if I'm honest, if it's just impacting them, I don't get angry, right? I feel compassion.

• 15:20Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 15:21Tom Bilyeu?

  But when it's like, and now you're dragging me down, now you're slowing me down, now you're trying to talk me out of something, now you're telling me I dream too big, now you're hurling stones at me or whatever because of something that you've got on you, and I'm freaking you out because of how I'm moving or what I'm going for or whatever, that actually does make me angry.

• 15:39Lewis Howes?

  So how often, how often does your team make you frustrated? If they're not taking responsibility 100% of the time and...

• 15:47Tom Bilyeu?

  Because we have like, so one thing I learned back at Quest, because we grew so fast, and I just wasn't smart enough at the time, you're only as good as what you write down. And you can be small and sort of communicate everything in these interpersonal relationships, but as you get bigger, it goes away.

• 16:04Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, and hope people have it memorized or something. Interesting, you're only as good as what you write down.

• 16:09Tom Bilyeu?

  Correct. When you're running a company.

• 16:10Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 16:11Tom Bilyeu?

  Uh, so...

• 16:12Lewis Howes?

  In terms of like having a process documented that someone could implement, not just a simple conversation that you hope they memorize.

• 16:18Tom Bilyeu?

  100%. So coming into Impact Theory, you have to sign, it's not a pledge, but it's about as close to a pledge as you're gonna get, and it's our Culture Code document. And it says things like, you will take 100% responsibility for your job, you will be expected to look beyond your role, I mean, just like all these things.

• 16:38Lewis Howes?

  I love this.

• 16:38Tom Bilyeu?

  And one of them is, I only want to play with hardcore motherfuckers. And it says, this is not a safe space, so do not come here expecting people to be kind. Like, look, we, here's the thing, I also expect you to elevate your team and to lift them up, and to celebrate them, and want them to win, and like cheer them on, and never worry about whether it was your idea. The only relationship worth being in, because all relationships are sacrificed. The only relationship worth being in is where you feel like, whoa, like this person really cares about me. And I want people to retire at Impact Theory. At a time where millennials stay at a company for 18 months, I'm asking them to stay for 40 years.

• 17:15Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 17:16Tom Bilyeu?

  Now, to do that, I've got to give you emotional stability. I've got to give you somewhere where you can build trust, where people are honest with you. But in being honest, people are going to be direct. They're going to say hard things. In the spirit of, I want to lift you up, I want to see you get better. Because remember, we believe that you can get better. And if you put your time and energy into improvement, then you actually will improve. And therefore, you get more out of your life, the company gets more out of your involvement. But like, I really had to be hardcore about that. Because, you know, you'll hear a lot, people say, you know, don't hire for skills, hire for culture. John Wooden, sort of the best explainer of this, the famous basketball coach. I don't look for the best player, I look for the best fit. That really is true, man. When you get somebody who like, you can really relate to, and you can say hard things, and they're receptive,

• 18:00Tom Bilyeu?

  and they say hard things, and you know they're coming from a good place, it elevates you.

• 18:03Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 18:04Tom Bilyeu?

  And it's fun to be around, right? As a social animal, we just love that stuff. Um, so, that's huge. But I'm really hardcore on the way in, so that once you're in, like, we can give you grace. Like, imagine if you were on my team, and I don't. I try never to refer to people as employees. I slip up from time to time, but I really think of them as teammates.

• 18:24Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 18:24Tom Bilyeu?

  So if you're my teammate, and you're like, hey, look, man, I'm really having a hard time. My girlfriend and I are, we're just in a dark place right now, and I'm going to need a couple of weeks just to go sort it out. Don't even explain. I got it. Cool, I got you. Tell me what I need to know to be able to pick up the slack for you. Um, we refer to vacations as being sacred. So we don't have, the only vacation policy we have is that it's unlimited. So do whatever you want. Get your work done, you need to be a high performer, yada, yada, yada. But like, if you need the time to deal with your girlfriend, the death and the family, whatever. Take that time, be an adult, autonomy is huge for me. I assume it's huge for most people, so... But to do that, you've got to say, this is the criteria we expect you to meet.

• 19:06Lewis Howes?

  You need to be high performing the rest of the time you're here.

• 19:09Tom Bilyeu?

  And if any of this turns you off, then this is not the place for you. And it says that in the document. Like, if, if this does not, if you're not prepared to do this, this, this, this, this, this, this, then this is not the place for you.

• 19:19Lewis Howes?

  Wow. So, is it literally saying a line, this is not a safe place?

• 19:23Tom Bilyeu?

  Yes, this is not a safe space.

• 19:26Lewis Howes?

  What does that mean, not a safe space?

• 19:28Tom Bilyeu?

  It means that I'm going to make absolutely no effort to protect your feelings. I'm going to never, ever, ever sacrifice clarity for kindness. Now, I will be as kind, I wanna be kind, dude, I want you to be kind to me, I wanna be kind to you. My wife is my partner, I would never want an environment that was tearing her down. So it's like, in the spirit of trying to elevate people, I'm not a Machiavellian kinda guy. That's gross to me, that is such a turnoff. I want to, like you would treat a friend, dude, if you're in a dark time, you're gonna underperform and I'm down. I'm with it, I will do your work for you to create the space for you to have that moment. Because I know at some time it's gonna be my moment.

• 20:12Tom Bilyeu?

  But that only works if I'm not parasitic, you're not parasitic. It's gonna be hard enough if you don't have ill intent. Now, if you are lazy, if you have ill intent, if you are trying to milk the system or whatever, then it's never gonna work. But if it's just legitimately, you're going through a period we will all go through, which is a very hard time for whatever the hundreds of reasons throughout our lives that we will underperform, be in a dark place, whatever. If at that moment, people lift you back up, they brush you off, remind you of who you are and who you can be, and they love you and they're there with you, cool, we all get it.

• 20:48Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 20:48Tom Bilyeu?

  But to do that, you really have to have a code of behavior on the way in, you just have to. Like, the everyday of it all, what do we expect? And I want to be around hardcore people.

• 21:01Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 21:01Tom Bilyeu?

  For their own reasons, right? I don't wanna have to sweat you, I don't even wanna think about you. Like, I want you to go, I want you to go do your thing, I wanna do my thing, I wanna be able to count on you to crush it, and you could definitely count on me to crush it. And then if I need you, I will ask and hopefully you will aid me. And if you need me, fuck, I'm gonna run to your side to help you. But I don't wanna micromanage.

• 21:22Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 21:23Tom Bilyeu?

  So like, I want you to be good at what you do, to be getting it better every day for your own reasons. And there is a certain subset of humanity that is like that. If you get them in your company and you set them free, they won't all get in the groove, but eighty percent is pretty magical.

• 21:40Lewis Howes?

  What's the best hire you ever made?

• 21:42Tom Bilyeu?

  My wife.

• 21:43Lewis Howes?

  Besides your wife?

• 21:45Tom Bilyeu?

  There have been a lot, dude. I'm super stoked on my team. How about instead of saying a person, I will give you types of personality

• 21:52Lewis Howes?

  There you go.

• 21:52Tom Bilyeu?

  that I find intoxicating. Number one, somebody who is so convinced that they're not yet good enough to achieve their dreams, but so believe they can get there and are what I call a relentless problem solver. A relentless problem solver is worth their weight in gold. I don't need them to be highly educated. They will educate themselves over time. Somebody who's not afraid to speak to power, that is a big deal. I have a very strong personality and unintentionally I shut some personality types down. And a quote that I, that popped into my mind one day when a person who shall remain nameless,

• 22:35Tom Bilyeu?

  didn't use these exact words, but basically said, "Slow down so I can lead." And I was like, you know, that does not work.

• 22:42Lewis Howes?

  Someone on your team said that?

• 22:43Tom Bilyeu?

  Yes. Not, not at Impact Theory. But at a point in my life,

• 22:47Lewis Howes?

  Sure, sure.

• 22:48Tom Bilyeu?

  uh, somebody once effectively said, "Slow down so I can lead." And I remember being incensed that, that this person would allow themselves to say those words. Like, that's so anathema to who I am. Like, I could see myself saying, "I can't keep up with you. You need to lead." And then I would follow and be the greatest follower that I could be.

• 23:08Tom Bilyeu?

  So that notion of like, I want people that make me sweat. I want people that are like, they're trying to be so good for their own reasons that I'm like, "Yo, like, keeping up with this person is intense." That's intoxicating for me.

• 23:23Lewis Howes?

  So the times that most frustrate you, you have a code of ethics when people come in. So hopefully you're not frustrated because they understand their accountability, their actions, their behaviors, everything. But what are the times that frustrate you the most outside of your company?

• 23:39Tom Bilyeu?

  Ooh, just in my personal life?

• 23:40Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, just in life in general.

• 23:43Tom Bilyeu?

  Inefficiency is the only thing that winds me up. It's the only thing that I will say I'm irrational about.

• 23:49Lewis Howes?

  Be reactive to, you see something and you're like.

• 23:51Tom Bilyeu?

  Nobody in the outside world would know because that's just ridiculous. I recognize that it's it's an offshoot of something that's very powerful in my life. My obsession with always doing things as efficiently as possible. But I also recognize that life isn't like you can't. On my deathbed, I will never say, wow, I was efficient. Efficiency is useful towards getting to a goal. And so I prize it and I love it and all that. But my wife has tempered me and shown me that sometimes just the connecting, just being with somebody, just sitting and being is is joyful.

• 24:23Lewis Howes?

  Is enough, yeah.

• 24:24Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, not even not even just enough like it. It is precisely what the doctor ordered. And so, and I'm not great at that.

• 24:32Lewis Howes?

  Not having to be efficient all the time at something.

• 24:35Tom Bilyeu?

  Like, I'll give you an example. My wife on a Saturday will be telling me a story and I'll be like, oh, God, please like narrow this down, like say this faster. And every single time I have done that, I have thought that was a really dumb way to handle this moment. Like, let that part of your brain go. Part of this for her is the joy of telling the story. And if it takes her an hour and it's joyful for her, what does it matter? And having to sort of step in and out, like I've done everything I can to confuse whether I'm at work or at play. And moments like that where at work, the efficiency really, really serves me. But now at this moment with my wife, and we may even be talking about work, but it's in a different context.

• 25:16Tom Bilyeu?

  It's a Saturday, you know, and just sitting in the kitchen and, you know, enjoying each other's time. And she'll talk about something that bumps me back into a work mode. And now I'm just sort of coveting that efficiency and it's just terrible for the relationship.

• 25:30Lewis Howes?

  You know, one of the most fun moments for me of witnessing you in the last six years was? Can you guess?

• 25:37Tom Bilyeu?

  I actually have no idea.

• 25:40Lewis Howes?

  I think you saw me, we were in Puerto Rico and you were sitting with your wife on a, on the beach. You're on a, a flatbed chair, sitting back, just holding her. Just sitting there looking into the ocean. No phone, no nothing. Maybe you were thinking about business in some way. But I was like, that's a really nice moment to watch you be calm and be still.

• 26:02Tom Bilyeu?

  You're making me emotional, Louis.

• 26:03Lewis Howes?

  No, I'm serious though. This just came to me because I only see you in hustle, Walt Disneyland, out of the Matrix world, like, let's crush it. But I was like, this is a really nice moment to just witness for a few seconds, you be present with your wife. And I'm sure you do this all the time on the weekends and stuff, but I was like, I want to see more of that as your friend.

• 26:23Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 26:24Lewis Howes?

  It can be 10 minutes a week. It doesn't have to be all the time, but this was a beautiful moment. That I was like, that's what I think the world needs more in general in their own lives. I'm not saying that's what you're gonna do, because your personality is driven on other things, but I think it's in some ways, healthy as well.

• 26:43Tom Bilyeu?

  I don't even think you have to couch it. It is extraordinarily healthy. I think it's absolutely necessary in everybody's life, mine included. You know, part of what makes my marriage, my single greatest joy is, Lisa is good at what I am not good at. And so, very early in the marriage, we said, okay, you, you're the canary in the coal mine, so I trust you. If you ever say we need to slow down, I will slow down instantly. You're more important to me than my business. So, and she is never abusive about it. So whenever she says something like, hey, let's go sit on the beach, I know, be there on the beach with her. I'm not like, hey, she's not looking at me. She's facing away on the ocean, so I can think about whatever I want. No, no, no.

• 27:24Tom Bilyeu?

  It's like, that's where you smell the nape of her neck and you like, drink in that neurochemistry of that bond.

• 27:31Lewis Howes?

  How do you, how do you silence your thoughts over the obsessiveness of what you want to create in the moment of being present and connected with your partner?

• 27:40Tom Bilyeu?

  One practice, so I meditate a lot, out of necessity. And then, two is...

• 27:49Tom Bilyeu?

  Understanding that when you reinforce a behavior, you really start to get something positive out of it. So when I'm there, like literally yesterday, there is a smell that my wife gets on her neck if she hasn't showered in a day. So she might skip a shower on the weekend, right? Oh, my God. Oh, my God. It is the most intoxicating scent ever. And scent is the only of the senses that goes directly to the part of the brain, the emotional center of the brain. Everything else goes into a relay station first. It's the only part that goes directly into the limbic parts of your brain. So that's why when you smell a barbecue or whatever, you're like, I'm hot again. And you're just in it. And when that smell is on my wife's neck, nothing else exists. It is just my wife.

• 28:34Lewis Howes?

  So Lisa, just don't shower every other day. If you wanted to slow down or do something else.

• 28:39Tom Bilyeu?

  I mean, that's one trait. It's, yeah. So what do you prize, right? What is your value system? So nothing, not all the business success in the world has brought me the level, the sustained amount and the amplitude of joy that being in a relationship with my wife has brought me. So I have so much clarity about what my values are. It's just that they don't often conflict. But when they do, and my wife says, hey, slow down, or hey, I need time, or, you know, let's make sure we take X number of days off a year or whatever, I do it, no questions asked, even though I'm, you know, sort of hard charging the rest of the time. And so we do dumb stuff. Like we shut down for Christmas. Our Impact Theory, my wife and I just talked about it this year. We will always and forever shut down for about two weeks at Christmas.

• 29:24Tom Bilyeu?

  And I don't expect anybody to work. I'm not going to be working. Like, go be with your family. Don't think about this stuff.

• 29:30Lewis Howes?

  Does not working for you mean actually not doing any strategizing of the mind, not taking notes or working on an outline for a potential book? Or, oh, this is a great character for my next movie.

• 29:41Tom Bilyeu?

  I would do anything that's fun. So.

• 29:43Lewis Howes?

  But work is fun for you.

• 29:44Tom Bilyeu?

  Yes, so there will be some fun things I'm sure that I will do. But I'm more off the radar during Christmas than other times.

• 29:53Lewis Howes?

  So you're off the radar for Christmas? In two weeks is more productive than most people's entire year on the radar.

• 30:00Tom Bilyeu?

  Well, so, and we can talk about that because that, I have gone way, way, way out of my way to make sure that I built. So Lisa and I had enough success, I never needed to work again. So if you're going to work, then you might as well structure for two things. The moment, like the in the moment joy, so doing this hard thing, I actually find intrinsically pleasurable. And I will say 40% of my life, work, life is that. 60% is not. But 40% is I would do this whether I was building a business or not.

• 30:28Lewis Howes?

  Getting paid or not for it. You love it.

• 30:29Tom Bilyeu?

  That's huge. And then the other is impact. So if you can make impact, doing something that you would be doing anyway, that's amazing. But really, at Christmas time, it is we wear onesies. So I don't know how much you know about the neuroscience of like how humans biologically sync up. If you put three women in a house together, their periods will sync up, based on hierarchy, by the way, of who's considered the sort of dominant females.

• 30:53Lewis Howes?

  The matriarch.

• 30:54Tom Bilyeu?

  It's crazy. But heart rates will sync up, breathing rates sync up. It's nuts. So my wife and I, when we shut everything down, even though, yes, I'm still doing fun work, we dress the same. So we'll wear matching Christmas onesies. We listen to Christmas music together. We dance a lot. We watch the same movies. Like, we just do all this stuff to like, really sync up as much of our sort of minds and bodies as humanly possible. It's absolutely phenomenal. I love it so much.

• 31:22Lewis Howes?

  Wow. Have you ever, how long have we been together now? 20 years?

• 31:25Tom Bilyeu?

  20 years.

• 31:27Lewis Howes?

  Was there a time where you ever thought you'd get divorced?

• 31:29Tom Bilyeu?

  No, no, no, no. Deciding to propose, I threw my heart and soul into that. I was pros and consing it, because Lisa used to get sick a lot.

• 31:39Lewis Howes?

  You were analyzing the whole thing, listing it down?

• 31:41Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, like, project out, never gonna sleep with another woman. I am, she gets sick, and I'm not a caretaker. I don't enjoy, like, some people just get off on that. I do not.

• 31:51Lewis Howes?

  I am not a caretaker.

• 31:52Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah. So I was like, okay, I'm gonna be caretaking a lot. Am I gonna be okay with that if she worth, you know, all these sacrifices? And in the end, I was like, either I'm never getting married, or I'm marrying this woman. And so, once I flipped that switch in my mind, I never looked back. So getting married was not stressful. Deciding to get engaged, I really weighed that decision. And then, so I don't know how much we've talked about this. So I believe in ritual. I think it's missing from today's world. I think we're suffering huge consequences of the lack of ritual, especially coming of age rituals.

• 32:23Tom Bilyeu?

  Read this book called The Power of Myth by Joseph Campbell. And he said that he thought part of the reason that marriages were ending in divorce was there was, you weren't a different person before your marriage and after your marriage. So I wanted to go through a ritualistic scarification.

• 32:36Lewis Howes?

  Like killing your old self.

• 32:38Tom Bilyeu?

  Correct.

• 32:38Lewis Howes?

  Killing the ego, the identity, the man you once were and becoming someone new. So how did you do this ritual?

• 32:45Tom Bilyeu?

  So I hate needles. I never wanted a tattoo. So because of the time, it was sort of the biggest fear that I had that wasn't life threatening. I got a tattoo as a ritual. I designed it, all this. It was like my sort of credo to my wife. And it's in Greek. So her, you know, not native language because she learned English first, but like she's fluent in Greek. And so there was just all this stuff tied up about, you know, taking on this sort of new identity as a unit and all this stuff. Anyway, so I get the tattoo and as I'm doing it, I wanted it to be painful. And as they're doing it, I'm saying, I am now a new man. I'm a different person. I'm stepping into this marriage. I will never look back. Divorce is not an option. We will be together forever.

• 33:30Tom Bilyeu?

  Now, admittedly, if she cheated on me, that would be the end. So it's not like, oh, no matter what happens. But when I say, we don't even say the D word. In our house, it's called the D word. I tease her about everything in the world, but never about breaking up with her. Ever. I don't make a joke about it. Nothing. Never. Because I don't even want that like taste in my mouth of that idea. And so I've told her, hey, you get horribly burned in an accident. You and I are staying together, homie. And I'm going to find a way to be attracted to the scars and all that. And it's just, that's commitment. And I needed her to know that because look, one day she's going to be 85 and she's going to be a bag of wrinkles. And she might be beautiful, but odds are at 85, she is not going to be hot.

• 34:14Tom Bilyeu?

  And she needs to know, I'm still going to be with you. I'm going to be into you. I'm going to be more into you then because of what I value is a shared life. And the only thing you can't fast forward, right? So yes, there will come a point, there's going to be hotter chicks than you. You never have to worry about me chasing that. Because you and I are building a life together and that's what I value.

• 34:37Lewis Howes?

  So how old were you when you got this tattoo?

• 34:40Tom Bilyeu?

  I would have been 26.

• 34:42Lewis Howes?

  26, fresh out of USC Film School. You're a professor.

• 34:46Tom Bilyeu?

  Four years out.

• 34:47Lewis Howes?

  You're a professor, you're teaching there at this point?

• 34:49Tom Bilyeu?

  I was teaching at the New York Film Academy. I've never taught at USC.

• 34:52Lewis Howes?

  Yet.

• 34:53Tom Bilyeu?

  Yet, yes, Louis, yet.

• 34:56Lewis Howes?

  I bet someone watching at USC will.

• 34:58Tom Bilyeu?

  I've lectured at USC though, believe it or not, but I have not taught.

• 35:02Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I'm sure you could be a teacher there if you wanted to, but it may not be the best use of your time. So 26 when you got this tattoo, you read this book, Power of Myth?

• 35:10Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah.

• 35:10Lewis Howes?

  Before that?

• 35:11Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 35:12Lewis Howes?

  And thought to yourself, I need a ritual in order to anchor myself into this marriage, into this commitment, into this new identity and not have a way out. Is that what I'm hearing you say?

• 35:23Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, the last part of that is not how I thought of it. I didn't think of it as not having a way out. I thought of it as being completely committed to always making sure that the most joyful thing in my life is this marriage. And so I'll never joke about ball and chain or anything like that. It's like the most joyful thing in my life is my marriage. And therefore I will treat it with the reverence it deserves. I will never neglect it, betray it, nothing. And so.

• 35:51Lewis Howes?

  Was there a phase where you were like, man, this is really tough though?

• 35:55Tom Bilyeu?

  Marriage is a series of compromises. And so in any moment where you're arguing, it's like, oh my God, like, this is not how I want to be spending my Saturday, Louis.

• 36:04Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 36:05Tom Bilyeu?

  But never did I think anything other than this is me not being good at something yet. And so I need to figure out like, where was my failure of communication? Are my emotions running away with me? Like, what am I failing at right now? And thankfully, that's an idea that I learned very early in my marriage that like, if I look at why I was wrong, why I created this argument, what I could do differently, then I don't have to spend an entire Saturday in a fight. I can get us out of it. And if she's doing the same thing, going, hmm, what have I done wrong here? How could I get us out of this? Now you've got two people that are like, ooh, we'll actually say, oh, this is that point of no return.

• 36:48Tom Bilyeu?

  We've got one last sort of stop here before we're just angry enough that we just have to part ways for a couple of hours and it's going to be a waste. So. Let's take a second, let's dial it down, remind each other we love. We actually say this stuff. And that has been ridiculous. If you were watching from the outside, our arguments, I'm sure look ridiculous. Because we're externalizing our internal narrative. Like, hey, when you said that, it made me feel like this. And I know I shouldn't, I know that's not what you mean, but it's really triggering and insecure. So we say all of that stuff. And that helps us like, keep everything calm and like, remind us that we wanna connect. And you know, that we love each other, that's a big thing in a fight. Does this person love you?

• 37:29Lewis Howes?

  Yes, when you know you're right in an argument, but the other person is unwilling to, for whatever reason, they're irrational, they're reactive, they're insecure, they're hurt, whatever. But you know, in your heart, I am right with this thing, this situation. And you can't get your partner to see your point of view. But you know it's gonna cause more and more stress and chaos. If you continue to be right, what is the solution? So you can get back to love and peace? And are you okay with knowing you're right? But having to say, you know what, well, I'm just gonna let this go? Even though I know this is the truth, facts in the world right now?

• 38:12Tom Bilyeu?

  No, probably not, like, we would need to come to a resolution. Because that's one of those things that really could fester. If I'm right about something immaterial, then I might just be like, what exactly am I arguing about? A lot of times in those moments, it's just space. It's just like, let's just take a minute. Because a lot of times, let's say she's right. And if she gives me an hour, I might just be like, yeah, actually, either it doesn't matter, or she actually is right about this. And you can sort of, once you've deescalated and you get back to the, the easiest way to explain it is, you're at a place where you want them to win. Where the idea of them being right is like, you get joyful, even though it does mean that you were wrong. It's like, you're back to a place where this is, I would literally die for this woman. And if I would literally die for this woman, I can't be wrong for this woman?

• 38:57Tom Bilyeu?

  Like, it seems like a much lower bar.

• 39:00Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 39:00Tom Bilyeu?

  So you get back to that place of like, I actually want her to win. Not necessarily, I want her to win all the arguments, I'm just like, but her having this win is now, I can frame it as a joyful thing. And that helps a lot. And I'll say that's probably 90% of the issues just go away. When you both step back, you get time to recalibrate your neurochemistry and you can approach it just from like, oh yeah, I love you more than anything in this world and I can actually feel that now. And so I want to concede anything that's true. And you know, now we get to a point where we can move forward. Now, if it's like, this just really like, both of us at different times, I will say this is maybe a particular strength of mine. Is I'll say, no, no, no, we have friction here. And it would be very easy to pretend that we don't. It will only get worse. It's going to manifest in something.

• 39:45Lewis Howes?

  Give me an example, maybe not something specific in your relationship where you.

• 39:49Tom Bilyeu?

  This has become a famous one for us. Where we were out one night for dinner and she was upset that I hadn't said that she, that her new shirt looked good. And she'd gone to all this effort, you know, this is a time where I was working a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot. So we didn't get.

• 40:07Lewis Howes?

  This is impact theory or.

• 40:09Tom Bilyeu?

  Early quest.

• 40:10Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 40:10Tom Bilyeu?

  And we didn't get a lot of time together when we weren't working. I mean, making protein bars together is time together, but it's not exactly quality.

• 40:17Lewis Howes?

  It's not hanging on the beach.

• 40:18Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah. So we were at dinner and she put on this new shirt and she loved it, thought she looked amazing and I didn't say anything. And so we're at dinner. It's going to be a key part of this equation in a minute. So we're at dinner and yeah, she says, um, you know, what do you think of my top? And I'm like, it's all right. And she was traumatized, traumatized and just very upset. You know, we, we have very little time to come out. And you're not sort of appreciating me and why didn't you tell me before we came out? And, and so what I ended up saying was, look, it would have been very easy for me to just gush and say you looked amazing.

• 41:01Tom Bilyeu?

  And the reason that I'm not is because if I tell you the truth now, when it's hard. Then, when you're eighty-five and I say you're beautiful to me, you know I'm being serious. Because it was hard a thousand times before this and I said what was true. Why all of a sudden would I not say what's true? And so, I need you to be able to cash that check. That I have been honest in a thousand, ten thousand hard moments, leading up to this one time where I need you to know, I know it's counterintuitive, but I'm telling you, I think you made the right business call or whatever. And no, I'm not pandering to you. No, I'm not telling you what, you know, I think you need to hear, whatever. Like, this just really is true. Like, you really nailed that.

• 41:45Tom Bilyeu?

  And I know it was hard and maybe you're embarrassed, but I really think you did the right thing and I'm very impressed. And she'll be able to say, whoa, okay, like, that really is real. That's one example. Another example was what we call the famous tea argument. The biggest fight my wife and I have ever been in was over a cup of tea. And it all goes to insecurities. So it's very early in our marriage and we were dirt poor. I never took time off work, but she had said, we need to take time off. We need to go away for the weekend. Now, go away for the weekend for us is one night in a hotel. That's all we could afford. And so, I thought, hey, we're gonna pay for a night in the hotel.

• 42:26Tom Bilyeu?

  I wanna be there the second they will let us check in and I'm gonna stay, like, extra late checkout. Like, I wanna maximize, right, for the money. For her, it was, well, we get quality time together and you're taking a breath. And for her, to finally slow down and to have that moment in the morning where we're about to drive off to this beautiful hotel and it's gonna be so amazing and I'm sitting there watching her have this cup of tea, like, I cannot believe that she's wasting this. I've taken time off work, I'm paying for a hotel and she wants to sit and have a, you can have a cup of tea anytime, what the hell's going on? And so, I start reacting like that. Like, what are you doing? This is insanity.

• 43:10Tom Bilyeu?

  Come on, let's go. And so now, we're literally screaming at each other over this cup of tea. And we were halfway to Santa Barbara and I turn around and we're driving back. And something snaps in my mind. Wow, you turn around because you're still arguing. I'm so angry. I'm like, this is a waste. I'm not even gonna kick you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's go home. This is stupid. And so when I actually take the exit ramp and actually get back on and I am going back home. We are actually going back home. I was like, you're being a child. To yourself. To myself. I'm like, you're being a child and you're now ruining this. Is this internally or out? Internally. Okay. And so finally I said, this argument isn't about the tea. What are we actually arguing about?

• 43:55Tom Bilyeu?

  And so I broke down what the cup of tea meant. And all the things that I just said to you about, I never take time off. I'm so freaked out about taking time off from work because I'm poor. I have made you poor. You are clipping coupons. I'm panicking about spending money on, you know, whatever, a hundred and forty dollar hotel. I'm freaking out. The only way that I can sort of justify the time and the money is if we make use of every second. And I feel like you're being disrespectful to my sacrifice. To your money, your time. Right, of doing all of this. And she was like, I just wanna be with you. I just wanna spend time with you. And a way for me to soak in the moment is to slow down and have this cup of tea.

• 44:39Tom Bilyeu?

  And I was like, whoa, like I have the chills now. This was like seventeen years ago. And I remember thinking, let's never do this again. Let's always ask ourselves, or say, we're arguing about the tea. And so now to this day, you know, seventeen years later, we'll say, we're arguing about the tea. What's really going on? And then when you really, it's always insecurity. You get into like, oh, I'm insecure about something. You've poked on some insecurity that I have. What is it? Ah, it's this. And because we have this whole thing about never weaponize your partner's insecurities ever, under any circumstance, even though you could win an argument by hitting them with that insecurity, you can't do it not even once.

• 45:21Tom Bilyeu?

  And so when you find it and you say it, and then we celebrate the other person for acknowledging that and saying that, yes, cool, okay, now I understand where you're coming from. Here's why, now that you mention it, like this is what was really bothering me. And you can get to that. Now, look, there's. Now, we're very fast with navigating through the emotional hijack. But your emotions still hijack you. It's not like I don't get mad, or she doesn't get mad, or we don't sort of miss each other, or like, you know, we're miscommunicating. But because we have names for this stuff, and we have best practices and, you know, tools, you find ways to center yourself.

• 45:58Lewis Howes?

  What's your greatest insecurity now? And what was it in the first five years of marriage and kind of business?

• 46:05Tom Bilyeu?

  My greatest insecurity, I think, will always... My greatest insecurity has been the same since I was like 12. And that's that I'm not smart enough to play with the big boys.

• 46:14Lewis Howes?

  Who are the big boys?

• 46:16Tom Bilyeu?

  Einstein, Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, Walt Disney, like, the people who history remembers. And I actually don't know if I have the raw intellect to pull it off. Now, I think that I meet minimum requirements. And so, I act as if I just need to keep acquiring skills. And I have yet to reach a point of diminishing returns. I still am learning so much so quickly that I'm encouraged that I could accomplish enough to be remembered. Now, keep in mind two things. One, I don't think about legacy ever.

• 46:58Tom Bilyeu?

  So, it's a North Star of seeing if I am gonna be a fast pig or if I actually am gonna be a racehorse. But knowing the only thing that I value in a conscious, active way. Because clearly, my desire to be smarter is tied to something. Maybe it's truly intrinsic, and maybe we all have this desire to be the best at something. Maybe that really is, like, every single human will live a less joyful life unless there's some narrow band somewhere, something where they're the best at. I'm the best at picking weeds, drawing a straight line, pouring milk, whatever. But there's something, right? That like, have you ever seen the documentary The King of Kong?

• 47:35Lewis Howes?

  No.

• 47:36Tom Bilyeu?

  The guy who holds the world record for Donkey Kong. So

• 47:40Lewis Howes?

  That's gonna, I gotta watch that.

• 47:42Tom Bilyeu?

  Right, but we all like

• 47:43Lewis Howes?

  He found his thing.

• 47:44Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, like some niche and you go ultra hard and it's like, I'm the best at this. So maybe that's true. I don't know, but maybe it is. So anyway.

• 47:52Lewis Howes?

  But you don't wanna be great at some niche, you wanna be great at something grand.

• 47:54Tom Bilyeu?

  Yes, but what I'm trying to separate here is I don't consciously value myself for intelligence. That it is proven to me that that is an emotionally dangerous game. Because all too often I meet people that are smarter than me. And I'll even define smart, the ability to process raw data quickly. So I routinely meet people that can process raw data more quickly than me. There is some subconscious.

• 48:18Lewis Howes?

  What type of raw data are we talking about, like, like numbers or?

• 48:20Tom Bilyeu?

  If I said, um, Louis, should we put, should we think more about, um, the School of Greatness YouTube or the School of Greatness podcast? Now I will come up with a profound answer to that if you let me think about it for two weeks. But there are other people that will come up with a profound answer in seven seconds. And I find that just astonishing. And I'm so in awe of the ability to think quickly. And because I speak quickly, people think I think quickly, but I don't. And other than my wife, I don't think anybody believes me when I say that, but I assure you that is true. I just think a lot. And because I think a lot, I've solved problems in my own life. And some number of those problems that I have solved in my own life are useful to other people.

• 49:04Tom Bilyeu?

  But it's rumination. So.

• 49:06Lewis Howes?

  Who are the five icons that you look up to the most, whether alive or dead?

• 49:11Tom Bilyeu?

  Can I just multiply Elon Musk by two and Walt Disney by three? It's like those two to me tower over everything, but really the people that I just listed. Walt Disney, Elon Musk, um, Jeff Bezos.

• 49:24Lewis Howes?

  Einstein.

• 49:25Tom Bilyeu?

  Einstein, but even, I'll, I'll pull him off because he's, while I find that kind of intellect very powerful, there's nothing in my life that even hints at that. I've never sort of tasted that kind of view on the world. Whereas the other guys, I feel like I get them, though I do not compete with them.

• 49:43Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 49:43Tom Bilyeu?

  Um, I get them. Um, Steve Jobs, if I didn't already say that. Like that's an area.

• 49:52Tom Bilyeu?

  I can picture Spielberg. That to round out, I think that's five.

• 49:59Tom Bilyeu?

  If I could mash them all into my brain, I would be a very happy man. A very happy man.

• 50:05Lewis Howes?

  No, but some of those people weren't this, I mean, I think of Elon, sure, okay, Steve Jobs maybe, but was Walt Disney the smartest? Or the most creative?

• 50:16Tom Bilyeu?

  So this is where it gets to separating the.

• 50:19Lewis Howes?

  Wasn't he like an average drawer or something?

• 50:21Tom Bilyeu?

  He was, he was fired from a job at a newspaper for not being creative enough. But that's one of those like early, sort of who you are early, I don't get too much in a twist about because it was the fact that he spent some ungodly number of hours creating animation in his garage, literally, that just put him ahead of other people. So I mean, if you really want to talk about success, success is a large amount of discipline and timing. And so he had both. He was working in a garage when there was no money to be made and everybody said, what are you doing? All animations played out. Walt, animation's dead, baby. It's dead. And he just loved it enough that he was there and ready for that second wave of success.

• 51:04Lewis Howes?

  Timing.

• 51:05Tom Bilyeu?

  It's exactly what happened with Tony Hawk. Tony Hawk was huge and then skateboarding died.

• 51:10Lewis Howes?

  Died.

• 51:10Tom Bilyeu?

  But he loved it. And so even when it was just like backyard skateboard competitions, he just kept going and going and going and going.

• 51:16Lewis Howes?

  For no money.

• 51:17Tom Bilyeu?

  For no money whatsoever, no prestige, nothing. And then it has this resurgence in the nineties and he's the only one that anybody knows because everybody gave up. And so now it becomes Tony Hawk Pro Skater and boom, he's like the biggest name by a factor of a hundred. So that was the same thing with Walt Disney. He didn't need to be the smartest. He needed to be the one that put in all the time when everybody else gave up and then the world had to meet him. They almost went out of business during World War Two. And Roy Disney sort of keeps them afloat and they do like sort of propaganda films and stuff. And then they come out of it as like the only survivors. And because he had been so passionate, working so hard and he had that discipline and that work ethic of what he was doing in the garage to innovate.

• 51:58Tom Bilyeu?

  So you have this guy that wants to innovate. So he's doing things other people aren't doing at a time where not only were there no other innovators, everybody else had fallen by the wayside and given up because there was no money. And now he was the best of the best. And he had that discipline and the work ethic and then the timing met him and it's just, you get these, so dude, I will just say this to everybody watching, because it'll be, this will be a time capsule in five years. I mapped something out seven years ago that is now coming to fruition. Louis, I promise you, I have a vision, people can go watch it right now. I mapped it out, it's called, if you, in YouTube, type Tom Bilyeu and master plan. I laid the whole

• 52:37Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 52:38Tom Bilyeu?

  And I am executing against it every single day.

• 52:42Lewis Howes?

  Seven year plan?

• 52:43Tom Bilyeu?

  No, no, no, it just happened to be seven years ago. It was the first time I said out loud, this is what I'm doing. So then, whatever, three years ago, I said, we need to record this. So four years into it, I said, I want to plant a flag so it's not people having to believe. No, no, no, I really did have this master plan. That I have it and people can watch me execute it and see if I pull it off. Because I think I know where the puck is going to be. And that there's something happening right now in media that's opening up this, a moment of tremendous timing, that I'm aimed precisely to be in the middle of that timing, so that I can create another gigantic, successful company. This one will take longer, because I have to have built something up to be ready to take advantage of that opportunity that's coming.

• 53:29Tom Bilyeu?

  In a way that like, when you're selling something people can eat, it's not the same problem. Although we did have our own lucky timing there.

• 53:37Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. So it sounds like, I mean, you've got the work ethic and the discipline like Disney. He had timing.

• 53:45Tom Bilyeu?

  He had timing.

• 53:46Lewis Howes?

  Because it could have been, no one cared. So it's like, he wasn't more brilliant, it seems like. He was brilliant, but he wasn't more brilliant. He was dedicated in a craft that had timing and

• 53:59Tom Bilyeu?

  That's why I don't know if my obsession with, because you just asked what my insecurity was. That's the truth. Whether it makes any sense or not is a totally separate debate.

• 54:08Lewis Howes?

  Because you don't need to be smart to be iconic.

• 54:11Tom Bilyeu?

  It is entirely possible that I meet minimum requirements to become an icon, yes. I don't know yet.

• 54:16Lewis Howes?

  I don't even think you need minimum requirements. You don't need that.

• 54:19Tom Bilyeu?

  You do, you do, my friend. We both

• 54:20Lewis Howes?

  In terms of intelligence.

• 54:21Tom Bilyeu?

  Yes. I don't want that to be true, but it is true. The US military has run the experiment. They said if you have a below eighty-four IQ, I think it is, that they would rather just not have you because even peeling potatoes, you'll create more chaos.

• 54:34Lewis Howes?

  I don't even know if my IQ, I don't even think my IQ is that high.

• 54:36Tom Bilyeu?

  It's not eighty-four.

• 54:37Lewis Howes?

  I swear.

• 54:38Tom Bilyeu?

  Louis, I promise you.

• 54:40Lewis Howes?

  I have no idea.

• 54:41Tom Bilyeu?

  I promise you, no matter how much you may struggle with reading or whatever, your IQ is well above that. And then on top of that, like you're sort of dancing around, there are other things other than your ability to process raw data quickly. Okay, which will sort of round to IQ. There are things that are just as important, maybe more important than IQ. There, I heard this real story once, and I want to do a fictionalized version of this, that at one point in the US, the guy with the highest IQ in the world lived in the US and he was working as a bouncer in a bar and had done nothing with his life.

• 55:14Lewis Howes?

  What?

• 55:14Tom Bilyeu?

  Now imagine that, a guy who, if I remember the numbers correctly, Einstein is one sixty and this guy was like two twenty.

• 55:21Lewis Howes?

  Shut up.

• 55:21Tom Bilyeu?

  So, think about that. The, the average in the US is like one fifteen, I think. So, if one fifteen is normal and then Einstein is one sixty, there's a bigger gap between Einstein and this guy than Einstein and your average guy. And the guy was a bouncer at a bar. Because if you're, if you don't meet minimum requirements in sort of all the areas, social skills, interpersonal skills, the ability to manage your own emotions, right? Maybe this guy had suffered trauma and he just could not get himself to a place where he could engage or wanted to engage. You know, so it's like, I get it. I somehow, at some point in my life, chose subconsciously to value intelligence. I'm in awe of it when I see it. I wish I had more of it.

• 56:05Tom Bilyeu?

  I don't, I don't cry myself to sleep tonight, you know, at night about it. But if there was a button in front of me that said, "You could be the smartest person in the world", the only thing that makes me hesitate is would I still be able to enjoy my time with my wife? And, because I used to say, yes, I would hit that button. And then Lisa was like, I know this is make believe, but if I could put a request that you hesitate before hitting it? Because she said, would we still relate to each other? And I was like, I actually don't know. So, if I knew that I would still relate to my wife, I would pound the life out of that button.

• 56:37Lewis Howes?

  So why is this the biggest insecurity?

• 56:39Tom Bilyeu?

  Uh, because it is-

• 56:41Lewis Howes?

  Because you're doing pretty well for yourself.

• 56:43Tom Bilyeu?

  I really feel like I have, I don't spend a lot of time in insecurity, but I'm trying to give you a real answer.

• 56:51Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 56:51Tom Bilyeu?

  So when I think about things that still do like, "Oh, that sucks", it's when I see, like, when I look at Elon Musk, I am not equal parts, because I'm more inspired than I am crestfallen, that I just don't have that ability to process data like that. Uh, that's astonishing. Like, when you see what he's done, I am, I'm going all out to build the next Disney, and I think I might pull it off. But he's building a company that takes people to Mars-

• 57:19Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 57:20Tom Bilyeu?

  -while building the most dynamic car company on the planet.

• 57:23Lewis Howes?

  And an underground tunnel company, right?

• 57:24Tom Bilyeu?

  And, yes, and SolarCity. It's like Hyperloop is, he just had an idea, and so he published what multiple companies are now using to build. He gave away his patents. I mean, it's insanity. The guy is, is the, um, chief engineer of SpaceX. He taught himself rocket science. Dude, he taught himself. He got books and taught himself rocket science. That's insane. So that to me is, I choose to let it be inspiring, even if there I could only ever be a fast pig. And who knows, I'm not running the experiment. But I, I, I think in terms of there are some areas where you get disproportionate rewards on your time. If it has to do with verbal or emotional abilities, I get disproportionate return. Me and somebody else could read the same books,

• 58:09Tom Bilyeu?

  and I'm just gonna walk away with more. Um, I could give the same number of speeches as somebody else, and I'm just gonna be a little bit better than they are.

• 58:16Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 58:17Tom Bilyeu?

  So that's an area where I've really poured myself into.

• 58:20Lewis Howes?

  If you could, uh, hit a button right now-

• 58:23Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah.

• 58:23Lewis Howes?

  That would say you are one of the smartest people at, what did you say? Something with data?

• 58:31Tom Bilyeu?

  Uh, the ability to process raw data.

• 58:32Lewis Howes?

  Processing data?

• 58:33Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah.

• 58:33Lewis Howes?

  You'd be the smartest or one of the smartest in the world right now. Or guaranteed to be the same level of intelligence you are for the rest of your life, or incrementally better with the amount of process you take, and be bigger than Disney, guaranteed.

• 58:47Tom Bilyeu?

  That's so easy. Bigger than Disney. Nothing brings me more joy than storytelling, nothing.

• 58:53Lewis Howes?

  So why obsess over the...

• 58:56Tom Bilyeu?

  Like I said, I don't know. I'm not sure that it's smart. I don't know that it's a good use of my cycles. But you're so good at asking like that really pointed question, and it's tempting to dodge, right? And just like, give you some BS answer. The truth is, for whatever weird reason that I have not been held back enough by to worry about, the thing that I worry about in my life, at least some small amount, is my intelligence. So it's probably stemmed from growing up, I was just always around. Maybe it's pure luck. Maybe if I'd grown up anywhere else, I would have been the smartest kid. But I was in a group of friends where I was not the smartest, and so I became the funniest. And that has served me very well.

• 59:34Lewis Howes?

  And you became the hardest working, and you became...

• 59:37Tom Bilyeu?

  I haven't tracked enough of them to know, I was not then, I will assure you of that. Now, whether I'm the hardest working of all of us now, but we're a bit of a Stephen King bunch where everybody's scattered to the wind and we have not stayed in contact. But I do think like that line in Stephen King that you never have friends like you had when you were 12, that is true. Like, the friends that I had at the age of 12 was like a magic Stephen King novel. And, but unfortunately, I have not stayed in contact except for one of them. Which is a whole thing unto itself. He's a fucking fascinating guy.

• 1:00:07Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 1:00:07Tom Bilyeu?

  But anyway, they were smarter than me, many of them.

• 1:00:11Lewis Howes?

  Don't you want to not be the smartest person in the room?

• 1:00:14Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah. You're gonna, you'll end up in a death loop because I think it's dumb. I should not be obsessed about wanting to be smarter. But I'd be lying if I said that I wasn't. Like, it is an area where, yeah, it would be cool, I won't lie.

• 1:00:28Lewis Howes?

  Right, right.

• 1:00:28Tom Bilyeu?

  But I know how to emotionally center myself. I know how to be beyond grateful for the talents that I do have. I am able to generate an extraordinary amount of joy with the talent and intelligence. Like, if 50% is hardwired and then the other 50% is making the most of that, I am really having a ball making the most of what I was given, so I'm good.

• 1:00:47Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:47Tom Bilyeu?

  But am I insecure? Yes. Am I paralyzed by insecurity? No. Do I invest in that insecurity? No. I don't think it makes any sense to wallow in like, "Oh, I should be smarter," you know what I mean? Like, I'm not stuck there.

• 1:00:59Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:01:00Tom Bilyeu?

  That's the honest answer to a very pointed question.

• 1:01:04Lewis Howes?

  That's interesting. In terms of, the thing that keeps coming up for me is your ability to self-soothe under whatever adversity or frustration or anger moments in business with team, with partner, personal letdowns you might have, what is the strategy you've learned from all the people you've interviewed and your own just personal tests and experiments of soothing and kind of getting back to a place of heart rate slowing down, getting back to a rational state of mind, letting go of the hurt 12-year-old that's not smart or whatever it may be, that's hurt in that moment and reactive? What are those soothing techniques besides having a blankie when you're a child and something or some?

• 1:01:49Tom Bilyeu?

  Well, so I'll get the mechanistic one out of the way. Meditation is big. That has been a lifesaver for me. That's helped me manage stress in very stressful situations. But the thing that maybe people haven't heard before is I always ask myself one question. So I have a goal. I know what my goal is. That's very, very important. In my entire rubric, everything that I say assumes that the person knows what their goal is. Big goal or the goal just in that moment. So let's say your goal is I want to feel good about myself. So getting back to center. Okay, I want to feel good about myself, but I just did something to embarrass myself. And it has real-world consequences, right? It really was embarrassing and it really will stick with me

• 1:02:30Tom Bilyeu?

  maybe for a year, maybe 10 years. Maybe this is a thing that now is associated with me forever, right? It's out on the internet, whatever. So how am I going to re-center? I use one question. Will it serve me to feel badly about myself because of this? And if it does serve me, and by the way, sometimes it does, like you need that sting of like, ah, I messed that thing up. I don't want to mess up like that again. And being upset by it, never more than 20% of your time, but in that 20%, leaning on what I call the dark side, to be like angry about it, be upset, hold yourself accountable and not just let yourself off the hook. Be like, yeah, you screwed that up. You weren't paying enough attention. Your skill set wasn't ready, whatever.

• 1:03:13Tom Bilyeu?

  But nine or eight times out of 10, I guess, um, the right answer is no, it's not gonna serve me. And even if kicking my own ass served me for a little bit, it's not gonna serve me for long. So I need to very rapidly transition into forgiveness, into just not focusing on it, letting it go, and knowing that. So I have a belief that I've consciously instilled in my life, that I only do and believe that which moves me towards my goal. So if, even if it's true that I'm a moron, believing that isn't gonna serve me. So I just go, okay, well, that's not gonna serve me. So I need to at least believe I can get better. Okay, I can get better. Cool. Then I'm just gonna focus on that. And that simple reframe pulls me out of that. And I just, it's a pattern interrupt, right?

• 1:03:57Tom Bilyeu?

  Using cognitive behavioral therapy language. I don't allow myself to death spiral about what a moron I am.

• 1:04:02Lewis Howes?

  You know, it's interesting, I probably spent 27, 28 years of my life, maybe 30, obsessing over being a moron internally, right? Internalizing like, God, stupid, you're an idiot, whatever it was, around a relationship or something in my business, something. I would obsess about it. And I think when I turned 30, I finally was like, well, that doesn't really serve me anymore. And I feel like a lot of people in the world continue to obsess about calling themselves something negative, that they're no good, or a moron, or God, you're an idiot for doing this thing. And we obsess over it. Why do you think we obsess so much for decades of our lives until we die? Most people, it seems like.

• 1:04:41Tom Bilyeu?

  You're having a biological experience. So one of the physics of being human, this is the actual structures of the brain are designed to do the following. It's designed to keep you alive long enough to have kids that have kids. That's it. Now, you trying to be the, the alpha in your tribe is actually very dangerous. You're gonna have to put yourself out there, take risks, try to build alliances, all that. So that's why people are so afraid of making a mistake, public speaking, doing something that could get them ostracized. Now, in a modern context, it doesn't make sense anymore to have that fear, but the programming is there. So also, we have a negativity bias. So if you think of it as the sort of snake stick effect.

• 1:05:24Tom Bilyeu?

  You are better off assuming that a stick in the grass is actually a snake than you are to assume a snake in the grass is a stick. Because if a stick is, you know, just a stick, but you react like it's a snake, you look silly and people might chuckle. But if it's actually a snake and you react like it's a stick, you're dead.

• 1:05:40Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:41Tom Bilyeu?

  So you're way better off skewing to the overreactive. Same with negative. You are way better off going, Louis, you really embarrassed yourself. You never should have done that. You should have just kept your mouth shut.

• 1:05:52Lewis Howes?

  Stay safe.

• 1:05:52Tom Bilyeu?

  Stay safe, baby.

• 1:05:53Lewis Howes?

  Protect yourself.

• 1:05:54Tom Bilyeu?

  Yes. Because you are better off fitting in than you are sticking your head up.

• 1:05:58Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:59Tom Bilyeu?

  Now, if you win the lottery and you become the alpha male and you get access to more females and you procreate, it's a risky strategy. But when it pays off at Genghis Khan and it pays off, you know, I mean, he can, his impact can actually be measured in the gene pool. It's insane. But it's a dangerous strategy, man. So that's why you have all this like negativity bias. You're something like five or seven, I forget what the stat is, seven times more likely to believe something negative than you are to believe something positive. Because if it's positive, then it's just you didn't get ostracized. You don't get a lot more out of it. Whereas if you really misstep and you're in danger of being put out of the group, you need to address it immediately and go into damage control.

• 1:06:41Lewis Howes?

  Have you ever done anything where you felt like, oh, I really messed up?

• 1:06:46Tom Bilyeu?

  I mess up daily.

• 1:06:48Lewis Howes?

  But I mean, like.

• 1:06:49Tom Bilyeu?

  Daily.

• 1:06:50Lewis Howes?

  Oh, I shouldn't have said that. I shouldn't have done that thing. Or I got too much negative comments than I normally get. And is there a moment you can think of that stands out where you felt like, ah, I held on to this for a few days of beating myself up because I knew I needed to take accountability?

• 1:07:05Tom Bilyeu?

  Are you asking about whether I hold on to something too long or whether I make mistakes? Were there, they are legitimate mistakes?

• 1:07:11Lewis Howes?

  What was the mistake that was a big one for you where you were like, okay, I had to beat my, not beat myself up, but like I had to hold myself accountable for a few days longer than I normally would? To re-correct.

• 1:07:20Tom Bilyeu?

  I don't have a quick answer to that.

• 1:07:22Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:23Tom Bilyeu?

  Partly because I don't lash myself for mistakes and haven't for a very long time now.

• 1:07:30Tom Bilyeu?

  I make mistakes routinely. I've made huge mistakes with building culture.

• 1:07:33Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 1:07:34Tom Bilyeu?

  Dude, that, you wanna talk trial and error? Like trying to figure out like how to build a culture in a company was very, very difficult. When I used to mentor somebody, I would do the same where I would say, they would come to me inevitably and say, hey, I wanna be you in 10 years. And I would say, okay, then I'm gonna start talking to you the way that I talk to myself. That was a mistake. Most people are not ready for that and like finding a way to stair-step them into that and sort of help them begin to process things that, you know, I've had my entire life to earn my own respect, earn credibility with myself, so. And then also, I could never understand, and Lisa really had to show me. She was like, when you speak, people don't hear Tom Bilyeu, the teammate. They hear Tom Bilyeu, the CEO.

• 1:08:16Tom Bilyeu?

  And it's like, she was like, some of your staff has only ever interacted with you when you're on camera. And so to you, it's like you have both the sort of, you're the boss, you pay their paycheck, and you're a celebrity. In a very micro way, trust me, I'm well aware of that. But like, that's the perception that they have. But because I don't think of myself like that, I don't feel that way internally, that I cannot think that, oh, when I say this thing, and I'm a very forceful person, so now I'm saying it forcefully, but I don't want deference. I assume you're not giving me deference. But in reality, that person is hearing the CEO, this guy could fire me, and he's, you know, now he's coming at me hard, which he did ask my permission to do because I came and said, but it just, it didn't work. So I don't use that strategy anymore.

• 1:09:01Tom Bilyeu?

  Just a lot of little things like that where it seemed like I really was trying to do something amazing, but it was a terrible strategy.

• 1:09:08Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. What would you say is the, uh, the wrong way about getting into a business partnership with your? Married, uh, as a married couple. And the right way to do it. What have you learned? In the last five years that's really worked? And what has been like, man, we should. Maybe we shouldn't have done a business together if we would have went down this way.

• 1:09:30Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah. If your relationship isn't high functioning. If you don't have insane levels of emotional stability, a sense of longevity, you know that you're in this forever. And that you've shown over a certain period of time that we have the chops to solve disputes. That's the key. The second key is what are the roles? Baby, I don't care who takes what role. But you better have some roles. So for instance, when Lisa and I created Impact Theory. We said to the lawyers, make this the ultimate divorce nightmare. Lawyer said, no, no, no. One of you should take 51%. Trust me, everybody thinks that this is all going to be sunshine and rainbows. And Lisa was like, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Tom should have 51% and I'll take 49. And I said, over my dead body.

• 1:10:15Tom Bilyeu?

  You are taking 50%. This is half your company. You have earned, over the life of our marriage, you've earned every, half of everything that we have. Like if my wife were cheated on me with an entire football team, I would still give her half because half of it is hers. Like she has earned that half. And becoming, you know, a horrible wife does not negate that she earned her half. And so I would, I would just close that chapter. I would give her half, never look back and just go do my thing. And because I believe that to the core of my being, and I believe it for two reasons. One, she really has earned her half. And even if she hasn't, the only way to, to make sure that my marriage is my number one priority is to say to her, no, no, no. I trust you implicitly. If you're going to burn this business down, do it.

• 1:10:59Tom Bilyeu?

  Please don't mess up our marriage, but like, I don't care about the business like I care about you. And I want to be very clear and I want my actions to show. It isn't like, oh, no, it doesn't matter. But you know what? I'll just put the 51 down, just like, no, the lawyers are telling us. No, no, no. 50 50. But let's be very clear. I will try never, ever, ever to move forward without us agreeing. And you will convince me, sometimes I will convince you, I am very open. And I, she knows me, I never argue for an idea just because it's mine. I know where the company's trying to go. I've built a skill set over multiple businesses in many, many years of being good, not perfect, but being good at knowing which movement is most likely to get us where we want to go. So.

• 1:11:43Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:11:43Tom Bilyeu?

  My beloved wife, about to be my business partner. If we ever find ourselves at an impasse, I can't convince you, you can't convince me, we have exhausted our ability to communicate, you know, to move each other. We will, every single time, go with my idea. Now, if you're comfortable with that.

• 1:12:02Lewis Howes?

  We're fifty fifty, though.

• 1:12:03Tom Bilyeu?

  Correct, but we have roles.

• 1:12:05Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:12:05Tom Bilyeu?

  I am the CEO. I am the visionary.

• 1:12:07Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 1:12:08Tom Bilyeu?

  She is an unimaginably good executor. And she has also amazing visionary ideas, just as I know how to execute. But when you look at the dominant trait, I am dominant when it comes to vision, she's dominant when it comes to execution. So if it's something around execution and I think she's crazy, we're gonna go with her idea. Because I know she is the right person to listen to. But when we get to loggerheads on something where, let's say, we were equal, like, no one has more experience, no one has proven to be better at this thing, then ultimately, I'll make that call.

• 1:12:40Lewis Howes?

  Because that's your role.

• 1:12:42Tom Bilyeu?

  That's my role, and again.

• 1:12:44Lewis Howes?

  You're not gonna step on her execution role if she's like, no, we're gonna do it this way. And her one percent will probably win out over that. Is that true, or no?

• 1:12:53Tom Bilyeu?

  Whoever is the right person to listen to, like Jaco Willing makes it very clear. If you want to be a good leader, you have to know when to follow. And that's another thing that we talk about in the culture document. You better be prepared to lead, but you also better be prepared to follow. So I would follow her, like, I have no problem with that. There's no ego tied up. It's just, somebody has to be the tiebreaker. When there's only two of you, it has to be agreed upon ahead of time, who has the final say.

• 1:13:15Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 1:13:15Tom Bilyeu?

  And that will force you to cross a line in your relationship, where it's like, we're gonna say it, we're gonna write it down, there's gonna be no uncertain terms. When we don't agree, and if it's area by area, we're going to write the areas down.

• 1:13:27Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:13:27Tom Bilyeu?

  And then, when something falls into a gray zone, who makes the decisions in the gray zone? Write it down.

• 1:13:33Lewis Howes?

  So it's clear, yeah.

• 1:13:34Tom Bilyeu?

  Very clear.

• 1:13:35Lewis Howes?

  Now, you had 15 years under your belt of building a successful marriage and partnership of trust and relationship and shared experience together. What if someone's in the first two years of their marriage? Would you say you should, it's still, good chance you'll have a great business experience together and not crush your marriage in those first?

• 1:13:53Tom Bilyeu?

  If your relationship is high functioning, you'll just learn the lessons in a business context.

• 1:13:58Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:13:58Tom Bilyeu?

  So a marriage is way more high stakes than business. All that's at stake in a business is money. What's at stake in a marriage is a shared life. And there's no way to fast track that. So you can break up and start over, but like, let's say you stay together for 10 years and then you break up. The only way to get to an 11-year relationship is to start back at one.

• 1:14:20Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 1:14:21Tom Bilyeu?

  Whereas by then, that marriage would have been a 20-year marriage. So it is a, to me, with my value system, the thing that I protect most ferociously is my wife and my marriage. So that's just so easy. Now, I play for keeps with the business. I'm not just like, las I care about, like, eh, whatever. But it's like, when they collide, you need to know what you care about. In rank order, which I find people have a very hard time doing.

• 1:14:51Lewis Howes?

  What do you think are, we've heard a lot of the habits and mindset strategies you have, but what do you think are some things when you feel completely stuck? And I don't think you ever feel stuck, but in general for people, what are some habits they can take on, along with meditation, to help them get unstuck in that moment, to at least stepping forward in the actions they want towards their goal?

• 1:15:13Tom Bilyeu?

  So a couple of things. One, you, you really have to have beliefs and two rules, so.

• 1:15:19Lewis Howes?

  Beliefs and rules and values, or?

• 1:15:21Tom Bilyeu?

  Values will come into play, but just to keep it simple, we can talk to all three if you want. It is, the full cocktail is beliefs, values.

• 1:15:33Tom Bilyeu?

  Identity, rules, and habits. That's like the, the whole thing. You could sort of put routines in there, but they're so related to habits. These are what you live by? That is how I make sure I accomplish what I want to accomplish. What are your, what are your beliefs? I have 25 of them. These I've actually published. So while I don't have them memorized. Yeah, yeah. If somebody wants to know what my beliefs are. What's one or two like that? I only do and believe that which moves me towards my goals. I can do, I can do anything I set my mind to without limitation. Then the next one is, I know that's a lie, but that's an empowering lie. And I do and believe that, that which moves me towards my goals. So, um, but there's 25 things like that. Human potential is nearly limitless.

• 1:16:18Tom Bilyeu?

  Sure. On and on. So it's all things to, to basically get you moving in the right direction. And the reason that I bring up rules is they need to have a rule that when they're indecisive, they immediately act. And I will just promise you, you're going to embarrass yourself because you'll be wholly unprepared. And there will be times where if you'd sat down and thought about it longer, you would have come to the right answer. But you didn't because you hit indecision. You have a rule in your life that indecision equals action. And I will just promise you, it isn't like two to one, it's a thousand to one. So while there will be consequences, you will suffer consequences for living this way. But what you will get is so much bigger that it's like, it's not even close. And so in my life, I don't allow indecision. How many rules do you have?

• 1:17:03Tom Bilyeu?

  Um, I'm actually, so I, you know, I got a book deal and ah, look at that, yay. Seven figure book deal, I turned it down. So I'm no longer writing it. And every, what I was going to write in that book was gonna, it was gonna force me to come up with, to actually write my values down. Cause I've never done it. So I, it's kind of like pornography. I know it when I see it. I'll get into a situation, I'll ask myself, what do I value? And because I'm totally unafraid of rank ordering things, I just rank order them. So for instance, the one that was really hard to do. My wife, my business, family and friends. What order do they come in? Because you don't get two number ones. My wife, my business, my friends and family. Wow. That's just, that's just being real. Yeah. So, but saying that out loud, that was not easy.

• 1:17:48Tom Bilyeu?

  Doesn't mean you're not gonna hang out with friends and family. It doesn't mean that I don't absolutely like, I'm obsessed with my family and there is.

• 1:17:58Tom Bilyeu?

  Almost nothing I wouldn't do for them. I wouldn't die for them and leave my wife alone. But like in a moment of my mom falls in a river and I have to risk everything to save her, I would do it 100%.

• 1:18:08Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:18:08Tom Bilyeu?

  So, um, you know, that that's easy, but that's that's just me being honest about like, ultimately, the order in which those three things.

• 1:18:19Lewis Howes?

  So, so why not take the seven figure book deal? What's that to do with your rules?

• 1:18:24Tom Bilyeu?

  Because that is,

• 1:18:29Tom Bilyeu?

  I love the mindset stuff. I love it. And it's changed my life. And I love watching somebody's eyes light up when they get it for the first time. And so I created Impact Theory University. And it is the book, but in lecture form. And so I've already created that stuff. Now I know that I would open up a much bigger market if I were to make the book so that those people could go, oh, my God, this stuff is life changing. And then I say, you like the book, you'll love Impact Theory University, sign up today. And it would quintuple our business overnight. I can pretty much guarantee it.

• 1:19:10Tom Bilyeu?

  When you say no to something that comes with a lot of zeros, you do so because of your value system. And what I value, when I think about Tom Bilyuan's deathbed, if I may speak in the third person, I think of myself on my deathbed. I don't regret not writing the book, but I regret tremendously not telling stories. Because I think, if I want to impact 100% of the world, 2% of them can be impacted with what we're doing right now. Where you say, think like this, act like this, it will make your life better. And 2% will do it. It's amazing. Now, I don't mean 2% of your audience. Your audience is the 2%. They've selected themselves out. They watch your show. So now some ungodly number of them are going to go out and do it because they belong to that very rare group.

• 1:19:55Tom Bilyeu?

  The 98% though, they will not. And the, I became obsessed with this because working at Quest, I had 3,000 employees. A thousand of them grew up in the inner cities. And many of them could process raw data faster than I could. They were smarter than me, but they had done nothing with their life. And they were not going to do anything with their life. Not that would be remembered or anything that even they valued. And When it boiled down to why not, it came down to they didn't have a growth mindset. They didn't have the only belief that matters. So I thought, okay, well, how do I get it to them? So I, we created Quest University and I would show up early, I would stay late. I would tell anybody, anything they wanted to know about mindset, building a business, whatever. And 2% of them did it and it was life changing and it's amazing. And I still get phone calls from people who are like, you changed my life.

• 1:20:38Tom Bilyeu?

  And it's amazing, but it's only 2%. The other 98% are either apathetic or actively antagonistic to change. So how do you reach them?

• 1:20:47Lewis Howes?

  Entertainment.

• 1:20:48Tom Bilyeu?

  The punchline is you have to get to the limbic system, which you do through entertainment. So you tell them stories.

• 1:20:52Lewis Howes?

  TV movies, yeah.

• 1:20:53Tom Bilyeu?

  So.

• 1:20:55Lewis Howes?

  Star Wars.

• 1:20:56Tom Bilyeu?

  Storytelling, yep. Star Wars affected my life tremendously, The Matrix. It's how you sway culture. So the only way that I'm going to sway culture with my skill sets, I'm not a musician, would be telling stories.

• 1:21:06Lewis Howes?

  So, so the book, you weren't able to do the book because it wasn't.

• 1:21:11Tom Bilyeu?

  It just took too much time.

• 1:21:12Lewis Howes?

  Got you.

• 1:21:13Tom Bilyeu?

  And now I do admit, I might at some point cross the bridge and go, hey, this is just taking Impact Theory University and putting into book form.

• 1:21:21Lewis Howes?

  Transcribing in a certain way, yeah, yeah.

• 1:21:22Tom Bilyeu?

  And get him to do it, like Ryan Holiday, I would have him do it. It's only sort of been recently that I've crossed that bridge because he was going to work with me on the book. But that was when I was like, no, I gotta write every word.

• 1:21:32Lewis Howes?

  Well, you have to.

• 1:21:32Tom Bilyeu?

  But now I'm like, man, just send Ryan into ITU and say, you know, spend four months watching all the content and just write it as a book. And that might be the punchline. I haven't thought beyond it.

• 1:21:43Lewis Howes?

  And then you can impact more people. I hear, that's powerful. What are other rules that you live by?

• 1:21:50Lewis Howes?

  So have you written those down or no?

• 1:21:52Tom Bilyeu?

  No, the only ones I've written down are the beliefs. Now, part of what got me interested in doing the book was, oh, it's gonna force me to write down my values and my rules. So here, I'll just give you a few. I'm out of bed in 10 minutes or less. If I've had more than five hours of sleep, I'm out of bed in 10 minutes or less. If I wake up after three hours of sleep, I'll lay there for two hours trying to fall back.

• 1:22:12Lewis Howes?

  I'm talking about during the weekday, but not the weekends here.

• 1:22:15Tom Bilyeu?

  Uh, no, even on the weekends. Uh, I don't have a hard rule about it, but rule of thumb, I'm still usually out of bed in 10 minutes or less. So I'm out of bed in 10 minutes or less. And most everything I'm gonna say, just assume I mean Monday through Friday.

• 1:22:25Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:26Tom Bilyeu?

  I'm out of bed in 10 minutes or less.

• 1:22:30Tom Bilyeu?

  I, if I'm awake, I'm either working or working out. So like spoiler alert, I don't have sex during the week. That's just like, uh, with rare exceptions. That's a no go. I do hard things. So at night you don't relax? No, I work until I go to bed.

• 1:22:53Tom Bilyeu?

  The, even when I brush my teeth, I'm listening to a podcast, so legitimately. Efficient with all your time. From the moment I wake up, Monday through Friday, it's very different on the weekends. Monday through Friday, if I'm awake, I'm either working or working out. And when I'm working out, I'm still listening to a podcast, so that was actually double duty. Wow.

• 1:23:10Tom Bilyeu?

  Those are, those are like some easy and fast ones that I live by every day. If I'm stressed, I meditate. I never blame other people. I always take on responsibility myself. I only do things that move me towards my goals. So I'm very careful about what my goal is. And another rule, my goals must always be exciting and honorable. And I'll define, exciting is just like, I'm amped up. It gives me more energy. I wake up excited to go do that thing. Honorable is it serves not only myself, but other people. Okay. And what about identity? How does that play in everything? That to me, as far as I can tell, there's only one smart way to go about identity. And that is to adopt the identity of the learner.

• 1:23:53Tom Bilyeu?

  So instead of valuing yourself for being something, it's all about becoming something. Having something or what you've acquired or? Or being smart. This, in fact, this is how I got myself out of the death loop I was in my twenties around being smart. Where I was making all these dumb decisions and I only wanted to be around people that were dumber than me. I was actually thinking about this. This wasn't like some subconscious program. I was like, oh man, the person is smart. Oh God, I don't want to be around them. And so there's this movie called, um, Amadeus. And true story. Probably fictionalized, inspired by Amadeus Mozart's real life. And there was this real guy, his name is Solieri. And he laments in the movie. And I remember watching this at probably seventeen years old and instantly going, this is my life.

• 1:24:39Tom Bilyeu?

  And he says, uh, he laments to God and said, why did you make me just good enough? To realize I'll never be as good as Mozart. Like, you could have made me better than Mozart, or you could have made me so dumb, I can't tell.

• 1:24:53Lewis Howes?

  But when you're like, so close, but you'll never get there.

• 1:24:57Tom Bilyeu?

  He said it was, it was too heartbreaking. And I sucked that into my soul. And for more than a decade, I was like, I am Solieri. And like you with realizing, hey, calling myself a moron is not serving me. I finally had to say, thinking of myself as the person who's just good enough to recognize that other people are better. Stop doing that. And now start thinking relentlessly about acquiring new skills. That's it, like, whatever. Be inspired by people that are better than you. Great, that's amazing. But don't sit there and lament, which is what I used to do, that you're not as good as them. Find out, how close can you get?

• 1:25:36Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. You know what I realized? Ah, man, my nephew is sixteen and he is able to spend so much time learning new skills right now. He can obsess over something all day and try this sport and do this thing and read this book and try everything. He's cooking, like, all this stuff is happening and he's, seems like he's got all the time in the world. Even though he's in school and homework, but he's like, I'm just gonna do whatever I want and learn. How hard is it for you to learn a really great skill that you want to learn at this stage? When you don't have that much time, do you?

• 1:26:08Tom Bilyeu?

  We all have twenty-four hours. No excuses.

• 1:26:10Lewis Howes?

  But when you're working so much on the business.

• 1:26:12Tom Bilyeu?

  Make sure you align what you want with that, so.

• 1:26:15Lewis Howes?

  What are the skills you wanna learn?

• 1:26:17Tom Bilyeu?

  You ready? I, I just. To my wife yesterday made a proclamation. Let's hear it. I'm gonna become the greatest writer of what's called shoujo manga the world has ever seen. Now, shoujo manga is aimed at women. It's typically written by women for women. And I am so excited to learn what makes good shoujo manga. For anybody that watches my interview shows, they're gonna see whenever I have a guest on that can talk intelligently about the differences between men and women. I'm like pinning him down, not because I care sort of intrinsically about the differences between men and women, though I do find it interesting. But if I'm going to write this stuff for them, I have to really understand it. Because people can say what they want. Maybe the numbers speak for themselves. Louis, dude, if you, have you read A Billion Wicked Thoughts? No.

• 1:27:02Tom Bilyeu?

  Oh, Louis, this is gonna change your life. You're gonna love it so much. So, it's a crazy book. Jordan Peterson makes an offhand comment in one of his lectures about, oh, there's this crazy book called The Billion Wicked Thoughts. And if anybody's wondering if men and women are the same, read this book. And I thought, oh, my God, I have to go read this. Google engineers are like interested in understanding what are people's sexual desires when nobody's looking. And they said, there's this fundamental flaw. Oh, wow. That people lie, because even if you say as the researcher, no, no, no, I'm never gonna tell anybody, this is totally anonymized. People are like, ah, too many data breaches, I'm not sure. And they just don't tell you. And the engineers are sitting there going, wait a second, we have search history. We have the data. Trillions of searches. Men and women from around the world. And now let's look at what they search for and what porn they watch.

• 1:27:48Tom Bilyeu?

  Dude, it's insane. It's so revealing, dude. So, this book is about? It goes through what do men and women search for? What does it tell you about them? Where does this come from? Like, it is absolutely insane. Give me the 60-second Cliff Notes of? Of like a difference between men and women? Of this book. Well, so the punchline of the book is that just from an evolutionary perspective, you would expect men and women to have different, to respond sexually to different things because they have different agendas. So, guys have two mating strategies. One to pair bond and mate with that person. And then the other is to basically, oh, God, there's a funny name for it.

• 1:28:30Tom Bilyeu?

  It's a rhyming way of basically saying plant and dash. So, you put your seed and then you just bail. Right, right, right. Forgetting what it's called. Oh, man. And. Because we have these two strategies.

• 1:28:42Lewis Howes?

  So both men have both those strategies.

• 1:28:43Tom Bilyeu?

  Men have both those strategies, but for, because for a guy, it's like sperm is cheap. The encounter is cheap. There, if, if the woman has to raise a child, even like the nine months of gestation, the woman has to go through all that. Men, men is off scot-free. So he's always looking for those opportunities where he can just impregnate a female and then bounce. And when you think about it as a legitimate mating strategy, women also use that strategy to attract men. It's the difference between being hot and being beautiful. Hot is advertising sexual availability, whereas beauty is often sort of a more internal thing. It's about who the person is. It's the sort of totality. So somebody can be standoffish and still beautiful, but hot comes from the allure of they could be accessible.

• 1:29:24Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 1:29:25Tom Bilyeu?

  And that is like, that's fascinating. And when you think about the things that really turn women on, get ready, vampires, billionaires, pirates. It's like all the, um, the number one female fantasy is Beauty and the Beast. Not literally that story, but that archetype of the sort of out of control beastly man who is tamed by one woman and brought into a loving relationship with one woman.

• 1:29:50Lewis Howes?

  Why is that the?

• 1:29:51Tom Bilyeu?

  Dude, think about it. You've got to get this like high status male into a monogamous relationship.

• 1:29:55Lewis Howes?

  It's like the hardest thing to do.

• 1:29:57Tom Bilyeu?

  Hardest thing to do, and it's the thing to get that high status male to not use you and then leave, but to pair bond with you, fucking trips him out, right? So that, and I love that. But here, like before we go laughing at women, guys, their porn, genitals. That's it. And now if you really want to freak yourself out, there is the number of porn that's like, one guy, two girls is tiny compared to one girl and multiple men.

• 1:30:22Lewis Howes?

  No.

• 1:30:23Tom Bilyeu?

  Yes. Have you not heard of sperm competition?

• 1:30:25Lewis Howes?

  What?

• 1:30:26Tom Bilyeu?

  Yes, it's this whole, dude, sexual selection. This shit is crazy.

• 1:30:30Lewis Howes?

  Wait a minute. Guys like watching porn with two men?

• 1:30:33Tom Bilyeu?

  I won't say like.

• 1:30:34Lewis Howes?

  The data shows.

• 1:30:35Tom Bilyeu?

  The data shows they watch way more of it. So now.

• 1:30:39Lewis Howes?

  With two guys and one girl?

• 1:30:40Tom Bilyeu?

  And do you know, do you know how they get a horse? Like if they want to make sure that a horse impregnates another horse, they'll have it be around another stud so that there's another male present.

• 1:30:49Lewis Howes?

  So it's like who's bigger or stronger?

• 1:30:51Tom Bilyeu?

  You ejaculate more semen. If you've just watched, uh, another man have sex, you, if your wife has been away for something like three days, when she comes back, you'll ejaculate more because you don't know who she's been with. Dude, it's insane. I don't know, like, I don't know how much you want to get into this on your show. But it is like, we could go deeper. It gets weirder and weirder the farther you go. But human sexual selection is absolutely fascinating. And it gives these powerful insights into like, how you can sort of feel more at ease, like with your own sex and be able to talk in a way and feel understood and seen and all that. And then when it's the opposite sex, there can be like these misunderstandings and like, what the hell's going on?

• 1:31:34Tom Bilyeu?

  And the way that I explain it is being around other men is easier, but being in a mixed group is more productive because you get heterogeneity of thought. So people are coming at it from different angles. It's way more explosive in terms of what you can get done. It's awesome. And so I always seek out like the different modes of thinking in groups because it's way more powerful. But I'd be lying if I said that it wasn't easier when I'm in just a group of guys.

• 1:32:00Lewis Howes?

  With all the things that you've learned from personal experience of marriage and intimate relationship and the psychologists you've been interviewed, the books, the billion.

• 1:32:09Tom Bilyeu?

  Billion Wicked Thoughts.

• 1:32:11Lewis Howes?

  Billion Wicked Thoughts, like all these things you've experienced. If it could boil down a healthy, happy relationship to three things that each partner needs to do and take responsibility for in order to create and cultivate a long-term, healthy, happy relationship, what would you say are those three things?

• 1:32:28Tom Bilyeu?

  Number one is the one that everybody is ready for, communication.

• 1:32:33Tom Bilyeu?

  Number two is you've got to, what I usually refer to as fill your heart with love, but I'll say it another way, which is want them to win. You need to elevate your partner. If your partner doesn't feel better about themselves when they're around you than when they're not, you are in real trouble. And then third, lots of sex.

• 1:32:54Lewis Howes?

  But only on the weekend for you.

• 1:32:55Tom Bilyeu?

  For me. But I make up for it, Lewis. I make up for it.

• 1:32:59Lewis Howes?

  The whole weekend is just sex.

• 1:33:01Tom Bilyeu?

  It's not quite crazy like that.

• 1:33:02Lewis Howes?

  The weekend is being around other dudes and then just with your wife.

• 1:33:05Tom Bilyeu?

  Zero percent of that. It is entirely, uh, pair bonding. Sex is a big part of that. Touch is a big part of that. Cuddling is a big part of that. Sharing something, food, watching something together, touching while you watch it. Massage, like dude.

• 1:33:24Lewis Howes?

  So it doesn't have to be sex, but some type of physical touch.

• 1:33:27Tom Bilyeu?

  For sure. And sex, sex, I do mean that one. Sex is important. Otherwise you become roommates and bed death is like this whole thing.

• 1:33:35Lewis Howes?

  Bed death.

• 1:33:36Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah. And in relationships where you respect each other, you're fond of each other, but you're not having sex anymore. So sex is important. It's very important.

• 1:33:46Lewis Howes?

  Those are the three things.

• 1:33:47Tom Bilyeu?

  Those are the three.

• 1:33:48Lewis Howes?

  How do you communicate? When you think differently, act differently, believe differently?

• 1:33:52Tom Bilyeu?

  Well, first it's important to recognize that we really do overlap far more than we're different. So the commonalities are so overwhelming, um, that it is powerful. I mean, there's, there is no human I feel more connected to or more understood by than my wife.

• 1:34:09Tom Bilyeu?

  But there is an ease when you're with like-minded guys. I mean, you could be with guys and be like, oh, fuck, these guys are, I can't even stand to be around. But there is like a camaraderie and stuff, which I'm sure you'll get.

• 1:34:19Lewis Howes?

  Relaxing, yeah, yeah.

• 1:34:20Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, it's just easy, right? Like, I don't have to worry about, ooh, I need to phrase this in some kind of way to be more careful about how you might feel. I can just say it, right? And if you had a problem, you can be like, dude, don't be a dick. And so it's like very easy. Um, and women likewise, like they are more protective. Everyone's included, like they're just, they default to that and they don't have to deal with, you know, the Neanderthal guys in the group. But there's so much overlap. So anyway, Lisa and I have to be thoughtful about like, oh yeah, you're right. I'm the classic one that everyone jokes about is I'm just trying to solve your problem, but you just want to be heard, right?

• 1:34:54Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:54Tom Bilyeu?

  So that's sort of the easiest one. The people be like, oh yeah, I can totally relate to that. So you have to navigate some of that, but, um, the communicating, even when you have differences, just rules and engagement, right?

• 1:35:05Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:35:06Tom Bilyeu?

  Say, what do we do in an argument? Do we step away? Do we keep going until we get to the end of this? Do we go to bed mad? Do we not go to bed mad? Can you leave the house? Do you have to stay in the house? Right? Like, can we name call? Can we yell? Can we raise our voice? Like, if you just say, yeah, like, this is how we fight. This is fair, this is not fair. Like, Lisa and I, never, ever, ever, ever, ever, under any circumstances, not even once, weaponize the other person's insecurities. That's powerful. Can't do it. And so that would be such a violation of trust that we just don't. Yeah, that's good. What's the thing you admire about your wife the most? Man, that's a long list. The most thing is that my wife has an unbreakable will. And there have been times where it actually annoyed me because there were times early

• 1:35:51Tom Bilyeu?

  in our marriage where I just thought, I'm just gonna wear her down and just be like, don't do this, or leave me alone about that, or whatever. And I'll be so inhumanly consistent that she'll back off eventually. She'll just give up. And once she believes in something and do this, I need to go deeper on this because I'm gonna get myself in trouble with a little generalization here. But there is a book, it's very profound, and I highly encourage every human being to read it, called The Gulag Archipelago, written by a man who was put in the Gulag, the Russian, like, internment camps? I'm not sure what the right way to think of this is. The Gulag what? The Gulag Archipelago. So it's basically like the groupings of the Gulags. And he got pulled into the Gulag system, and it's terrifying, far more terrifying

• 1:36:35Tom Bilyeu?

  in terms of the number of deaths than the Nazi concentration. What year was this? This would have been post-World War II. Really? Yeah, yeah. His name's Alexander Solzhenitsyn is the author. Real guy, really survived the Gulags. It's kinda like a Viktor Frankl-type of book? Yes, but this guy is enraged. So it is, Jordan Peterson wrote the foreword to the sort of updated reprinting of it or whatever, and he talks about how When you're reading it, you feel like Solzhenitsyn is screaming for 800 pages or whatever it is. It is, it's one of the most chilling books I've ever read. Like, it's sort of akin, it's not quite because the Gulags were different, but imagine you're reading the book written by Viktor Frankl,

• 1:37:20Tom Bilyeu?

  but instead of having found this sort of beautiful insight, he is enraged and points out how we ended up here. This is how you end up creating a system that's so inhuman. Absolutely breathtaking book. Anyway, in it, he says, "Most people under torture will eventually say whatever you need them to say." But he said, "There was, when you heard that someone was tortured to death, he said, "I'd put a chip that it was a woman." Because he said, "Once they latch on to something, they're not backing down." They will die. They just will not let go. It's right and it's right, what's right is right, and that's it. They're willing to die for it. And I was like giving the chills now. And I so see that in my wife. When I read that, I was like, "This is my wife."

• 1:38:01Tom Bilyeu?

  Like, she has this thing of like, when she believes it should be this way, and she's just like... She will die for it. Yes, and at times, though, Louis, where good sense is telling you to back down. You don't need to die for this. It's okay to lie and say, "Yes, you were right." Like, that didn't make any sense. And truly, from the outside, I would be begging my wife to lie, to give up her principles. Like, "I want you alive, and you, you're being tortured, this is crazy." But she really would be tortured to death before she would give on that. And it's like, it's awe-inspiring. Wow. Now, it's awe-inspiring till it becomes pathological and then terrifying,

• 1:38:44Tom Bilyeu?

  but like, really, really, really, when I, because I think I am hardcore. But that woman, man, once she, like, she has true righteous indignation. And she just becomes unstoppable.

• 1:39:00Lewis Howes?

  Wow, okay. So, the Gulag.

• 1:39:07Tom Bilyeu?

  Gulag Archipelago?

• 1:39:09Lewis Howes?

  Gulag.

• 1:39:10Tom Bilyeu?

  The Gulag is like their prison.

• 1:39:12Lewis Howes?

  The Gulag. I gotta read this book. If there are only three books you could recommend to people, that's all the books they could read in their life. This is the hardest thing probably, but if you're like, three books to live a better life, to understand the world and to just thrive. What would you say are those three books?

• 1:39:29Tom Bilyeu?

  It's not a hard question, but it's one that I'm sure I will answer differently every time somebody asks. Number one is Mindset by Carol Dweck.

• 1:39:36Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, it's great.

• 1:39:37Tom Bilyeu?

  It's the most important book in the English language. Number two is The Obstacle is the Way by Ryan Holiday, which is an absolutely extraordinary book. And then number three is Extreme Ownership by Jaco Willink.

• 1:39:51Lewis Howes?

  He's great.

• 1:39:51Tom Bilyeu?

  And Leif Babman, shout out to Leif.

• 1:39:53Lewis Howes?

  What is it, the thing that you think most people misunderstand about you?

• 1:39:59Tom Bilyeu?

  That's very easy. They think that I'm trying to be the next Tony Robbins. And I'm trying to be the next Walt Disney.

• 1:40:05Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I get that a lot too. And I'm like, I'm not, I love Tony. I think he's amazing.

• 1:40:09Tom Bilyeu?

  Amazing.

• 1:40:10Lewis Howes?

  I don't wanna run a business, I don't wanna run an events business and it's me being the one leading people in that way. I feel like that's a lot of pressure. And I'm just not that good at it, I don't think, you know, compared to someone like him.

• 1:40:23Tom Bilyeu?

  But Tony's, Tony's the GOAT.

• 1:40:24Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:25Tom Bilyeu?

  So I won't put either of us in that category, but you are amazing at it. And seeing the, what you've built around you is a reflection of how you're able to influence people on stage. But more importantly, and this is something that only a precious few people in your audience know, what you're like in person.

• 1:40:40Lewis Howes?

  Right, right.

• 1:40:40Tom Bilyeu?

  And for anybody, and I know you must get this comment 100 times on every video, Louis, you're such a good listener. What they'll never understand is the way you look at people. It, and it's always like that. You, you really do have a sparkle in your eye. You really are like, you're here. You are with me. You are present there. There's just something about the way you look when you're listening to somebody that is awesome.

• 1:41:03Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:04Tom Bilyeu?

  It, you really do feel heard and like somebody's present and all that. And so anyway, I know how that plays out in business as well. So it's like, all those things that you could do will only continue to get bigger. And as long as you love it and wanna do it, it's gonna keep going. But I certainly get that Tony does the thing and it's amazing. And he's still doing it, first of all, so let Tony be Tony.

• 1:41:27Tom Bilyeu?

  But yeah, I don't, it's not the game I wanna play.

• 1:41:30Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:31Tom Bilyeu?

  Um, it's incredibly powerful and it's a necessary part of my master plan to play in that realm.

• 1:41:38Tom Bilyeu?

  But the closest thing, and of course, I'm not trying to be a clone of Walt Disney. I really wanna be Tom Bilyeu. So all the people saying, oh no, just be yourself. Yes, yes, yes. I'm just saying.

• 1:41:46Lewis Howes?

  But that's a model that he's built.

• 1:41:47Tom Bilyeu?

  Having a model that helps you have something to aim at. It's, and also is just an organizing principle for people to understand, so.

• 1:41:56Lewis Howes?

  And what's the hardest skill that you wanna learn?

• 1:42:02Tom Bilyeu?

  I don't yet know what's gonna be the, the linchpin thing that I need to know how to do. Right now, it is, I'm running a strategy in Hollywood. So Hollywood is known for bull And I don't, I don't think it's actually, um, that anybody's doing it on purpose. Creative things are really, really hard. It's really hard to know what's gonna pop.

• 1:42:21Lewis Howes?

  You don't know.

• 1:42:22Tom Bilyeu?

  Right. So you wanna tell everybody, because you're not sure, you wanna say, hey, this could be amazing. Or, this is amazing. Kid, I love you. Like, yeah, yeah, yeah, let's do this, man. I love it, I love it. Now, what you're really trying to do is buy yourself time to get feedback from other people, to see, will this person keep going? To see if it starts to generate heat. So you wanna get as close as you can, and yet, push them off. So you wanna create a relationship where you're the natural person for them to turn to when they've got heat behind them.

• 1:42:50Lewis Howes?

  Yes. When they're big enough and momentum, yeah.

• 1:42:53Tom Bilyeu?

  Keep them at arms length until they have momentum.

• 1:42:54Lewis Howes?

  Don't take a risk.

• 1:42:55Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, like, I love you. Man, yeah, yeah, what you're doing is amazing. You're a talent. And so, I get it. And I don't think it's sinister. I don't think it attracts ugly people or anything like that. I think it is so difficult to know what's gonna hit. You need to create that sort of weird friction. So anyway, I come into this and I say, I've already had all the financial success in the world. I don't have to think about that. So I'm only gonna play the Hollywood game as long as it's interesting. It's only interesting to me if I can be real. So I tell people, when I meet them for the first time, I'm building a reputation. And I'm building my reputation by always saying what is true. And so, it may be uncomfortable, because if I don't like your project, I'm gonna say, I don't like your project.

• 1:43:33Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:43:34Tom Bilyeu?

  And my hope is that That will be refreshing and you will always know exactly where you stand with me.

• 1:43:39Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 1:43:40Tom Bilyeu?

  And dude, it's coming back around to me. I don't know that it's a winning strategy yet. I've gotten some early interesting feedback where I'll say no to an early projects. I'm like, this just doesn't line up. And then they'll come back a year later and be like, hey, I really like the way you move. And because I can get things done, which is like my ability to create momentum is sort of my secret superpower. And people will come back and be like, hey, I see what you're doing. I see how much you've accomplished in the intervening year. It's amazing. And you were really honest. And so I know I can trust you. So, but I also, I had a, um, an agent. And they just flat stopped calling because in a meeting I was like, I'm tired of you guys saying this. You keep saying it every time we meet.

• 1:44:17Lewis Howes?

  Nothing happens.

• 1:44:17Tom Bilyeu?

  And I'm like, what are we doing?

• 1:44:18Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:44:19Tom Bilyeu?

  And I literally said, I said, stop the meeting. What words do you need to hear from me to know that I'm serious and I'm ready? Because every meeting they'd be like, hey, if you like this idea, we should do it. I'm like, ah.

• 1:44:28Lewis Howes?

  I'm doing it.

• 1:44:29Tom Bilyeu?

  Every meeting I have said the same thing to you. I am in, I'm ready to move. I'm ready to move now. And I said, maybe everybody else you deal with, that means let's have another meeting. It doesn't mean that with me.

• 1:44:38Lewis Howes?

  We don't need another meeting.

• 1:44:39Tom Bilyeu?

  Right.

• 1:44:39Lewis Howes?

  Let's make it happen now.

• 1:44:40Tom Bilyeu?

  Right now. What words do you need to hear from me?

• 1:44:42Lewis Howes?

  What did they say?

• 1:44:43Tom Bilyeu?

  They left. And they, they, they were visibly annoyed. And because I wasn't playing the game in a standard way. And they never called me again. It was the absolute end of the relationship. And I was like, fine. Like, you're not the agent for me if A, you're gonna loop around the same thing. Like, we don't create momentum by talking. We create momentum by doing. And if this is a project that's not ready and it's two years off, then just say, this is a project in two years. Cool. But let's talk about the projects that are now. So I have, I actually don't know. I may alienate a lot of people.

• 1:45:16Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:17Tom Bilyeu?

  And Hollywood is very incestuous. So I try to be in a space where I can control my destiny, which is why I'm so obsessed with comics. Because Webtoon is the YouTube of comics. So I can publish. I don't have to get anybody's permission. I can build a following. I don't have to ask anybody. Building community is what I know how to do. So it's like, that is where I can really focus and control, um, what we're doing. But yeah, I don't know if the strategy is working out.

• 1:45:44Lewis Howes?

  What do you think you need to let go of in order to get to where you want to be faster?

• 1:45:52Lewis Howes?

  Whether it's intrinsic or extrinsic.

• 1:45:54Tom Bilyeu?

  I don't think that there's anything holding me back. So when I think about, I think that the strategy that I'm running right now on a long enough timeline ends in the next Disney. So because, now I check that all the time to see if that remains true. Because the obvious thing is I need to stop doing interviews. Because they take a lot of time.

• 1:46:16Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, a lot of time, a lot of research and everything.

• 1:46:18Tom Bilyeu?

  But they also bring people into my ecosystem. So I run the thought experiment very frequently of should I stop doing the university? Should I stop doing the interviews and just focus on creating the intellectual property? And the reason I don't is twofold. One, the other stuff generates revenue that allows us to put towards the creation of DIP, which is expensive enough. And then the other thing is all the breaks that I've gotten, executives that have just given me access that I wouldn't otherwise have are all people that are like, I watch your show, I love it. And so if there's ever anything I can do to help, and it's like, whoa, I've now got, I've got executives in Japan that are helping me find talent there, I've got executives here in the US, all from the content. It's crazy, it's crazy. Louis, there are people in Mogadishu who know who you are. That's just crazy.

• 1:47:03Tom Bilyeu?

  So we're living, talk about timing, we're living.

• 1:47:06Lewis Howes?

  Mogadishu?

• 1:47:07Tom Bilyeu?

  I promise you, you have somebody in Mogadishu.

• 1:47:09Lewis Howes?

  What's Mogadishu?

• 1:47:10Tom Bilyeu?

  Mogadishu is a, oh god, is it a country or a city? It's one of the two. And it is, it is my placeholder for someone from far away.

• 1:47:20Lewis Howes?

  Got you, got you, I see. So when you look online, you see that someone's watched here.

• 1:47:23Tom Bilyeu?

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I have people from...

• 1:47:28Lewis Howes?

  Everywhere, every country.

• 1:47:29Tom Bilyeu?

  Every country. It's almost every country, I mean, it's really close.

• 1:47:32Lewis Howes?

  Well, that allow the content to be in, yeah.

• 1:47:35Tom Bilyeu?

  It's amazing. So that is extraordinary. And so you never know who's going to be able to open a door for you. And because I'm so aggressive about telling everybody what I'm up to, people DM me all the time, oh, I might be able to help with.

• 1:47:46Lewis Howes?

  Right. When do you think will be the day you stop doing interviews?

• 1:47:50Tom Bilyeu?

  When I no longer need it as a way to get people into the ecosystem and I feel I'm having more impact through the stories. Because right now, the interviews are massively impactful on myself and to the people, so that it is quite joyful for me and I do love it. Just when I think about that sort of 98% versus the 2% and I weigh that up and truly, I love interviewing and I love researching, but I love writing even more.

• 1:48:17Lewis Howes?

  Do you think in order for you to be Walt Disney like, you'll be able to do it by you writing or by you directing the writers?

• 1:48:26Tom Bilyeu?

  Directing the writers. When I say writing, oftentimes what I mean is just editing. I'm shaping the story, I'm working with them. Yeah, ultimately, every time I'm actually writing a script, something is broken.

• 1:48:39Tom Bilyeu?

  It's just, I'm too slow.

• 1:48:40Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:48:40Tom Bilyeu?

  I'm a very, very slow writer.

• 1:48:41Lewis Howes?

  So you've seen the script, editing it, being the creative director.

• 1:48:44Tom Bilyeu?

  And I understand story structure and things like that. And also, I just have,

• 1:48:50Tom Bilyeu?

  Louis, I have so much energy and so much willpower and I can get people excited that I can get projects across the finish line. And that is my ultimate contribution, even more than like knowing what's a good story and when a story's ready and who's got talent and who to assign where. Even more than that, just like, I love it so much. I will drag my entire team across the finish line if that's what I have to do. And then surround myself with people that I don't have to drag, right?

• 1:49:17Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:49:18Tom Bilyeu?

  So it's like, the ability to get a team, get them excited, and then also lead from the front and just go, go, go and refuse to give up and do whatever it takes. And look, we've had success. Two years ago, I told my team, we're getting into comics and they were all like, what? Even though I'd already told them that when we founded the company.

• 1:49:34Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:49:34Tom Bilyeu?

  But it's like, people get caught up in the day to day. I said, hey, it's time, we're officially launching. People were like, what? 10 months later, we had a comic and now, two years into it, we have two of the top 10 spot. We only have two projects active right now. Both of them are in the top 10 of Webtoon Sci-Fi.

• 1:49:52Lewis Howes?

  Which is like the YouTube of comics.

• 1:49:54Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, and they post rankings and they do it by genre. And both of them happen to be science fiction that we've put out so far. And they're both, they were four and five.

• 1:50:02Lewis Howes?

  That's pretty cool.

• 1:50:03Tom Bilyeu?

  Now, when they're one and two, I'll be much happier. But the fact that an unknown publisher has come out of nowhere with nothing with their first two projects, hit four and five.

• 1:50:10Lewis Howes?

  It's pretty cool.

• 1:50:11Tom Bilyeu?

  It's pretty cool.

• 1:50:12Lewis Howes?

  Where can people follow the comics side of things?

• 1:50:15Tom Bilyeu?

  They can read the comics on Webtoon. So one of them's called Hexagon, one's called Neon Future. And then on Instagram, they can follow us at IT Comics.

• 1:50:24Lewis Howes?

  So if they go to IT Comics on Instagram, follow you there, then there'll be a link to where they can go read them.

• 1:50:29Tom Bilyeu?

  Yep.

• 1:50:29Lewis Howes?

  On Webtoons or whatever.

• 1:50:30Tom Bilyeu?

  Absolutely.

• 1:50:31Lewis Howes?

  Uh, it's been powerful, man. I've got a couple of final questions for you, but I want people to follow the comics. They're amazing. I love when you send me the first copies. They're unbelievable. Uh, follow that. Follow Impact Theory. You have the YouTube show that has been crushing with content. Uh, so follow that. What are you at, 2 million now subscribers?

• 1:50:51Tom Bilyeu?

  Just under.

• 1:50:51Lewis Howes?

  Oh, trying to get that before the new year.

• 1:50:54Tom Bilyeu?

  Uh, I don't think we're that close.

• 1:50:56Lewis Howes?

  Oh, got you. Yeah. A few months away, but uh, so make sure you follow that there. Follow you on Instagram. Probably one of the most uh, positive accounts on Instagram with some of the greatest content that I've seen with you and Lisa, uh, doing a lot of great stuff there as well. Follow Relationship Theory. If you want to master your relationships.

• 1:51:14Tom Bilyeu?

  YouTube show.

• 1:51:15Lewis Howes?

  You're just doing amazing on that.

• 1:51:16Tom Bilyeu?

  Own channel now for anybody paying attention.

• 1:51:17Lewis Howes?

  Blowing up. It's not just content in the feed. It's its own channel, separate. It was a smart move.

• 1:51:22Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, it wasn't getting the love that I thought it deserved because it's going to attract a different audience. But I think our content there is fire.

• 1:51:29Lewis Howes?

  It's really good.

• 1:51:30Tom Bilyeu?

  Two decades of us like making every mistake you can make and like finding our way through it.

• 1:51:34Lewis Howes?

  Is that weekly? You do it once a week?

• 1:51:35Tom Bilyeu?

  It multiple times a week. Yeah.

• 1:51:37Lewis Howes?

  That's pretty cool. So check that out. Um, how else can we support you?

• 1:51:42Tom Bilyeu?

  Man, that's it. If you've got somebody that's into uh, comics, please send them to Webtoon. Like that's my big thing. If anybody is trying to change their life, Impact Theory University is legitimately one effort, the most aggressive money back guarantee you're ever going to get. No questions. If you told me that you didn't get 10 times your money, I'll give you money back. But it, this is what

• 1:52:02Tom Bilyeu?

  if you want to be successful at whatever it is that you're trying to do, this is it. This is all the stuff that they should teach you in school and don't.

• 1:52:07Lewis Howes?

  That's great. There you go. And then is there, is it tombillu.com? Do you have that?

• 1:52:12Tom Bilyeu?

  We do, but it's impacttheory.com. But YouTube is tombillu.

• 1:52:16Lewis Howes?

  Oh, really?

• 1:52:16Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah.

• 1:52:17Lewis Howes?

  Okay, cool. So check all that stuff out. I'm curious. The last time I had you on, five years ago, I asked you uh, what your three truths were. I don't know if you remember them. I'm not, I'm not going to tell you them, but I'm curious. I have them here. I'm curious what they are now, five years later, to see if they are.

• 1:52:34Tom Bilyeu?

  Very interesting.

• 1:52:34Lewis Howes?

  So if you could only share three things with the world and it's your last day and we have no access to your Walt Disney-esque animation studio movie empire, uh, all that went with you. All the content you've ever created goes with you to the next place and you can only share three final things. What would those three things be?

• 1:52:52Tom Bilyeu?

  Number one.

• 1:52:55Tom Bilyeu?

  The human animal is designed to grow and get better. But you have to put the time and energy in.

• 1:53:02Tom Bilyeu?

  Number two, fulfillment is all that matters. Don't chase money, don't chase fame, don't chase success. The only thing that matters to actually enjoying your life is to feel good about yourself when you're by yourself. That's it. And getting people to recognize that, like, if I were to give you one thing that I'm trying to do, it's that. And then, number three, love deeply, man. Nothing will ever reward you like the connection with another human being.

• 1:53:33Lewis Howes?

  That's true. That's true. Well, all three of those were different on the previous. So if you want to hear what those three were, make sure to go check out the other immune we did five years ago. We'll have it linked up below this.

• 1:53:48Lewis Howes?

  Amazing, man. I want to acknowledge you, Tom, for constantly showing up and leading the way. You do an incredible job of using your willpower, your mindset, and your consistency, showing up and obsessing over the process. And it's such an inspiration to be your friend. It's such an inspiration to watch you just freaking take over and build something so powerful that impacts the world in a massive way. And I love that you are willing to take a massive risk on your beliefs and your values and your dreams. And really put something out there like a comic series that maybe isn't the decision most people would make. But you're doing something based on what you know is going to pay off 40 years from now.

• 1:54:32Lewis Howes?

  And not something that's going to be hugely successful financially or whatever it may be in this year or moment or a big return right away. And I think playing the long game is one of your strengths. You know how to execute the short game in a big way to still get results for the long game. And I think that delayed gratification process really inspiring, man. So I acknowledge you for that and many other things. And I really acknowledge you also for being such a committed husband. You know, no one knows behind the scenes of what really happens, but it feels like and it seems like that you're so committed to this in a world of social media where it's easy to be distracted in other relationships or in other people all the time.

• 1:55:16Lewis Howes?

  To constantly make that your number one, I think is really, that's the thing I think I'm most inspired by. So I'm proud of you for leading the way when so many people are lost in that direction. Um, final question for you, man. What's your definition of greatness? We'll see if this is the same as well.

• 1:55:36Tom Bilyeu?

  To me, greatness is leaving it all out on the field. Like, you can't guarantee results, but you can guarantee, like, did you really play to win? And this is something that I am heartbroken for other people if they're not playing to win. And the only reason to not play to win is if you don't think you can win and you value yourself for winning. So my thing is, maybe I can't win. I think the odds are actually against me building the next Disney. But it's such a fun game to play because I only value myself for this sincere pursuit. So greatness to me is not about achieving something, it's about playing all out, sincerely pursuing it.

• 1:56:17Lewis Howes?

  Hmm, Tom, thanks, man. Thank you so much, my friend, for listening to this episode. I hope you enjoyed the stories, the lessons, the insights, the inspiration from Tom Bilyeu. Make sure to check out the comics and magazines and everything that he's up to over at Impact Theory and over on social media as well. Some inspiring content on social media. If this is your first time here, please click the subscribe button over on Apple Podcasts or Spotify and leave us a rating and review of the part you enjoyed the most about this episode from Tom. Something he shared, an insight, a strategy, a tool. Feel free to post that over on Apple Podcasts right now with your review and your insights. And if you want inspirational messages sent to your phone from me every single month, every single week, then text the word PODCAST

• 1:56:58Lewis Howes?

  to 614-350-3960 to get on my secret texting community list. That's right. Text the word PODCAST to 614-350-3960. And I want to leave you with this quote from Aristotle, who said, "We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit." I hope you are enjoying the constant repetition of great minds that we bring here on the School of Greatness. Every single week, we bring you three big episodes, three big insights, interviews to support you in your growth, in developing your mindset, developing your character, the qualities, the skills. for your life so continue showing up every single week here and we'll keep bringing you the greatest minds in the world to help you unlock the greatness inside of you I'm so grateful

• 1:57:41Lewis Howes?

  for your time today and I want to remind you if no one's told you lately that you are loved you are worthy and you matter and you know what time it is it's time to go out there and do something great