#330 Dr. Craig Koniver - The Godfather of Peptides

Dr. Craig Koniver is a physician who rebuilt his entire practice after a near-fatal portal vein thrombosis at age 46 exposed the failures of conventional medicine. A former Old World Archaeology and Art major, he pairs ancient healing traditions with modern precision medicine and with over 50,000 peptide treatments administered, he has more direct clinical experience in biological optimization than any physician in America. His patients include Navy SEALs, Fortune 500 CEOs, professional athletes, world-famous actors, supermodels, politicians, and veterans who move from depletion to sovereign performance. Privacy Isn't Paranoia. It's Protection. Download Glacier - https://srs.site/glacierapp Website - https://theglacierapp.com Shawn Ryan Show Sponsors: Find your forever cookware @hexclad and get 10% off at https://hexclad.com/SRS ! #hexcladpartner Try Amazon Music Unlimited for music, podcasts, and audiobooks all in one app. Your subscription now includes access to audiobooks. https://music.amazon.com Try Gusto today at https://gusto.com/SRS and get three months free when you run your first payroll. Get 30% off your first subscription order at https://armra.com/srs or enter code SRS at checkout. Right now, Babbel is offering listeners up to 60% off. Go to https://Babbel.com/SRS Dr. Craig Koniver Links: Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/koniverwellness Website - https://www.koniverwellness.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:34Shawn Ryan?

  Dr. Craig Conover. Welcome.

• 0:37Speaker 02

  Thank you very much for having me, Sean. I'm excited to be here. I'm excited to talk to you.

• 0:40Shawn Ryan?

  I'm excited that you're here, too. And so I guess we've been, we've known each other for two years already?

• 0:48Speaker 02

  I think about two years.

• 0:49Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, that's like, it feels like six months.

• 0:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, I know. Well, time is a crazy thing, right?

• 0:55Shawn Ryan?

  It is, it is.

• 0:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, I think it's been about two years we've been working together.

• 0:59Shawn Ryan?

  Wow, well, my health has gotten a lot better in the last two years.

• 1:04Speaker 02

  Good to hear.

• 1:04Shawn Ryan?

  So, thank you for that.

• 1:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, you're welcome. Yeah, that's an honor to work with you.

• 1:09Shawn Ryan?

  Yep, likewise, likewise.

• 1:10Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:11Shawn Ryan?

  So, Andrew Huberman.

• 1:13Speaker 02

  Shout out to Andrew.

• 1:14Shawn Ryan?

  Connected us.

• 1:15Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 1:15Shawn Ryan?

  And, and we've been working together ever since. Not together, I've been, you've been my doctor ever since, so.

• 1:22Speaker 02

  It's an extreme pleasure and honor.

• 1:24Shawn Ryan?

  Likewise, likewise. But, well, I'm gonna go ahead and give you an introduction. We've got a lot of stuff to talk about today.

• 1:30Speaker 02

  Great.

• 1:30Shawn Ryan?

  So, here we go.

• 1:34Shawn Ryan?

  Dr. Craig Conover. 20 years ago, you walked away from the disease-based model of medicine and founded Conover Wellness in Charleston, South Carolina. A science-driven practice focused on performance optimization and longevity. Since then, you've administered more than 50,000 peptide treatments, giving you what many consider the most extensive clinical experience in biological optimization in the country. Your patients include Navy SEALs, Hall of Fame athletes, Fortune 100 executives, and members of Congress. At 46, a near fatal blood clot nearly took your life, changing not only your health, but the way you viewed medicine and performance overall. Once again, welcome to the show.

• 2:18Speaker 02

  Thank you for having me.

• 2:21Shawn Ryan?

  So, before we get to, we've got a couple of things to knock out here. One, everybody gets a gift.

• 2:27Speaker 02

  Amazing.

• 2:28Shawn Ryan?

  That's definitely not gonna help with your longevity, but they do taste pretty damn good.

• 2:32Speaker 02

  I love gummy bears. Literally, perfect for me, seriously.

• 2:35Shawn Ryan?

  Right on.

• 2:36Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 2:36Shawn Ryan?

  Right on. And then, I got a Patreon account, and that is, that's, we've grown it into one hell of a community. I think we're like 200,000 strong on there now. And so, honestly, you know, they are, when I started this thing, I couldn't get anybody to, I had no advertisers. Nobody wanted to do business with me.

• 2:59Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:59Shawn Ryan?

  And, and so, we started a Patreon account, and have grown it into one hell of a community. So, they've been, a lot of these people have been with me since I was in the attic of my house. And, and then you see what it's grown into today, and that's all because of these guys. So, one of the things I give them to give back is they get the opportunity to ask every single guest a question.

• 3:23Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 3:24Shawn Ryan?

  So, this is from Eric Auger.

• 3:27Shawn Ryan?

  If you had a healthy 45-year-old guy in your office who wanted to be as strong, healthy, and mentally sharp as possible for the next 40 years, what are the top five things you'd tell him to do?

• 3:41Speaker 02

  That's a good question. Yeah, I mean, I still think the, I think there's, I mesh it some basics, and then some things that probably aren't basic. So, I think everyone's familiar with sleep and how important sleep is, right? I think sleep is really challenging for people, particularly in the modern day. I think the trouble is, is, you know, from my perspective, people have sleep attachments. So, they're very worried about going to sleep, and if they get enough sleep, you know, what does it mean the next day if they only get four hours or six hours? And so then people end up turning to pharmaceuticals, for example, right? And now they're taking Ambien. And I have plenty of patients who, you know, maintain good sleep on these drugs. However, we just have to wonder, what is that doing to them long-term?

• 4:26Speaker 02

  And even more than that, I don't know if they're getting to the deep restorative sleep phases from these drugs that help them fall asleep. So, first thing is, you know, kind of lose a sleep attachment, but find some things that you can take intermittently for sleep. Like, I look at sleep as like, some nights I'll take theanine. I'm a big fan of theanine right now. Some nights, ashwagandha, some nights glycine. Different compounds that are natural. We can get into peptides for sure, that help promote not only falling asleep, but staying asleep. I think that's number one. I think, we'll get into further in the show about how important rest is, you know, for optimization, whatever that means. That'd be number one. Number two, I think the most important thing for people,

• 5:09Speaker 02

  once you can sleep and have that foundation, is changing, you know, what happens between your ears, you know, and changing your thought process, understanding that not every thought you think has to be true, and forming more of an empowerment type of approach and being positive. I think, I want to talk to you more about that because I think positivity is such a powerful tool that's not talked about, particularly in longevity space. We talk about compounds. Number three, things that people can take. I think there's a few supplements that I think stand out to me that really help people. Number one is CoQ10, Coenzyme Q10. It's this fat soluble vitamin coenzyme, works in the mitochondria, really helps our mitochondria work more efficiently,

• 5:52Speaker 02

  which is the battery of the cell. As people get older, certainly someone who's in their 40s is, you know, tends to be more in the kind of decline, starting to decline, starting to be more in the degenerative phase. We're hoping to change people into the regenerative phase, which is possible. But CoQ10 stands out, you know, that, if anyone's gonna take one supplement, that's the one I promote.

• 6:13Shawn Ryan?

  CoQ10?

• 6:14Speaker 02

  CoQ10.

• 6:15Shawn Ryan?

  Large of that.

• 6:16Speaker 02

  That'd be three things. Four, you know, I get their hormones tested, you know? I think the most tangible aspect to human health as we age is hormonal decline, meaning, once we get hormones balanced and optimized, it becomes more tangible. For men, testosterone. Testosterone's a big deal. And, you know, kind of optimizing and replacing testosterone is so important. For women, I think the most important hormone is thyroid, and making sure their thyroid is optimized. So, that's number four. Number five, just because I believe in them so much, is figuring out, you know, peptides. They're such safe, safe, safe compounds, and utilized correctly and judiciously and individualizing that and figuring out what that is

• 7:01Speaker 02

  can accelerate kind of getting into that regeneration phase. So, those five things, I'd say.

• 7:06Shawn Ryan?

  There's a follow-on here.

• 7:08Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 7:09Shawn Ryan?

  I like this one. And what popular treatments or supplements would you tell him not to waste his money on?

• 7:16Speaker 02

  That's a good question, too. You know, the way I.

• 7:20Shawn Ryan?

  It's a good question because, I mean, everybody's promoting something these days. You don't, you just, you don't know.

• 7:27Speaker 02

  You don't know. I think, you know, the thing, and I know we'll talk about it more, the thing that bothers me about, whether you call it longevity or optimization, performance medicine, is kind of this model, maybe we call it the biohacker influencer model, which is screaming at people to do everything. And the idea is if you don't do everything, you don't do anything. And from where I sit, that's very stressful. And so I have people come into my office every day taking 47 supplements, doing sauna, cold plunge, every single day, taking 16 peptides, you know what I mean? Doing all these things, it's almost if they've become so fragile that they can't even lead their life. And so, getting away from that mindset, I think is the most important thing. There's not just, everyone's so different, right?

• 8:12Speaker 02

  Like, every, certain people go through phases where they have to work on their liver detox, that to work on figuring out their gut, they have to work on hormones, they have to work on their mitochondria. So, it's hard to answer that. But I think from a mindset perspective, I'd encourage people not to get caught up in like, if you're not doing all these things that people are yelling at you to do, that's, that's a better place to be.

• 8:33Shawn Ryan?

  Okay. Is the, you brought it up, cold plunge sauna.

• 8:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 8:38Shawn Ryan?

  Is it overhyped?

• 8:40Speaker 02

  I think it's good. Again, to me, everyone's got to figure it out themselves, right? Like, I think there's good research on both, right? I'm personally not a fan of cold plunge. I don't like cold. So.

• 8:50Shawn Ryan?

  Neither.

• 8:51Speaker 02

  I just don't. So, is there health benefits from doing cold plunge? For sure. I think it's overdone in the sense that you have to cold plunge every day, or you have to reach a certain temperature or a certain time period for it to count, you know? I'm a big fan of people, you know, helping shepherd people to make decisions and try things out because to me, direct experience is the only thing that matters. So, I want people to try it out, right? Like, try out doing a sauna. How does it feel? Be really honest with yourself. I tend to like sauna. We have an infrared sauna, I used to do it all the time, and I do it a couple of times a week. I like how I feel, but I don't feel like I need to do it as much anymore. Cold plunge, I have lots of patients who do it religiously, you know? And I would just always ask the question,

• 9:36Speaker 02

  are you doing it because you're seeking alignment within yourself? Are you doing it because you're seeking permission? You know, are you getting, you know, allowance to do it? And I think there's a big differentiator there. Same thing with diet. I mean, diet's very personal to people. You know, I mean, I thought, what's the best diet? I don't know, right? Like, I want you to try different diets, whether it's carnivore, vegan, vegetarian, you know, Mediterranean, paleo, keto, and see how you feel, right? And you're gonna gravitate towards some at different points in your life, and depending on what you're working on. And I think that's great, you know? But there's, whatever, 16 different diet books written every year telling people how to eat. I think it's overdone.

• 10:20Shawn Ryan?

  Right on. What about water?

• 10:24Speaker 02

  Water's complicated, yeah. I think water can get deep. You can go into lots of different fats. I think, first and foremost, what you said, people need to filter their water. You know, like, I don't ever drink tap water, you know? I just think that you're taking from.

• 10:39Shawn Ryan?

  I can't stand it anymore. I go to a restaurant, and if it's tap water, I'm not.

• 10:43Speaker 02

  I don't think it's healthy for people to drink. And if we look at and analyze it, what's in that water?

• 10:47Shawn Ryan?

  It's getting worse. You used to take, I'll probably throw a pitcher up here right now, but we, we got, me and my wife got a water filtration system for the first time, I don't know, three or four years ago.

• 10:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:00Shawn Ryan?

  And it used to take, the first thing goes into is this clear filter, then it goes through these huge tanks.

• 11:06Speaker 02

  Probably reverse osmosis or something.

• 11:08Shawn Ryan?

  And, actually, it's not reverse osmosis.

• 11:10Speaker 02

  It's not?

• 11:11Shawn Ryan?

  No, but.

• 11:14Shawn Ryan?

  Supposedly it's better than that.

• 11:15Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 11:16Shawn Ryan?

  But um, I don't know if there is, but I like it and I can tell a huge difference. But it goes through this clear thing first. It used to take a couple of months uh to get it. It used to take a couple of months for it to get gunk like nasty looking. It's like two, three weeks now and the tank, the tank is brown.

• 11:37Speaker 02

  It just shows you, I mean, there's.

• 11:38Shawn Ryan?

  It's there's, there's particles floating in it.

• 11:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, and if you think about it, there's chlorines and fluorines and bromines. There's heavy metals. There's pharmaceuticals, right? Like where does it go? Where people excrete all these pharmaceuticals are taking into our water supply. There's fluoride, I said, I mean, there's so much junk and toxins and pesticides, glyphosate. It's all in there.

• 12:00Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 12:01Speaker 02

  And so I think to your point, filtering water, you know, but then you got to re-mineralize the water.

• 12:06Shawn Ryan?

  You do need to re-mineralize, re-mineralize.

• 12:10Speaker 02

  Mineralize, yeah. I think so. I mean, I think that's, I think that's the best way to get minerals is from the water. Um, so you can either, you know, use a water filter and re-mineralize. Um, you could drink sparkling natural water, you know, that has minerals in it. But without those minerals, you know, you could make an argument. And there's several ways you could do this. You can make an argument that the decline of the human population over the last six years mirrors the loss of minerals from the soil, from our food.

• 12:40Shawn Ryan?

  The human population is declining?

• 12:43Speaker 02

  For sure. I mean, we're devolving as this, you know, I, I think for sure we're devolving. We're not, we're not evolving, we're devolving.

• 12:49Shawn Ryan?

  I thought you were talking about deaths.

• 12:51Speaker 02

  Well, I'm just talking about our health.

• 12:53Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 12:54Speaker 02

  Our health and chronic disease and like.

• 12:56Shawn Ryan?

  Is that the whole world?

• 12:58Speaker 02

  I think so.

• 12:58Shawn Ryan?

  Have you, did you ever, uh, I'm just curious, have you ever seen that documentary? I think it's called, um, it's something like Live to a Hundred or something like that. And they go to all these zones.

• 13:09Speaker 02

  Is it the blue zones?

• 13:10Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah. Is that what they call it?

• 13:11Speaker 02

  I know what you're talking about. There's like seven or nine blue zones around the country, around the world.

• 13:15Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, there's like Japan, Japan, they tried.

• 13:18Speaker 02

  Italy's one of them. There's one in Italy, yeah.

• 13:21Shawn Ryan?

  What are those people doing?

• 13:22Speaker 02

  I think they're doing many things, right? I think they're, what they're trying to do now is they're trying to say, what are, what exactly are those people doing? To allow, let them lead long lives. Obviously, there's going to be genetic contribution. But I think if I had to pick one thing that those communities do is they are a community. Like they, they have strong connection and ties as a community. They also tend to walk after eating. I mean, I think it's subtle. So I think it's little things, you know, but it's hard to extract and say, okay, what can I do here where I live to be like them? I mean, the reality is you're not. I don't think that's a necessarily good goal.

• 14:00Shawn Ryan?

  Seems like they have a lot less stress.

• 14:02Speaker 02

  I think they handle stress differently, you know? I think stress is such an interesting topic, you know, that comes up. Usually when I meet a client for the first time, I want to really understand how they're handling stress. And I don't just mean like, what do you think about stress? We tend to, we like to do this urine and saliva hormone test to see how their adrenal glands, which is the triangular shaped glands sit on top of our kidneys that um processes and metabolizes and excretes cortisol, which is our main stress hormone. And I put a lot of value in understanding, you know, because there's a, we're hardwired for a cortisol response. Literally, it's hardwired into us. And once you start escaping that rhythm, bad things start to happen to people.

• 14:45Speaker 02

  So I'm, I'm kind of fascinated by it. I put a lot of value in, in understanding like, what are the biological mechanisms to how someone thinks and handle stress in their world?

• 14:53Shawn Ryan?

  Hmm, hmm. You guys did that on me, I think.

• 14:56Speaker 02

  I did that early with you, yeah.

• 14:57Shawn Ryan?

  Your uh facility office down there is, we, you've just done an incredible job. Your team is amazing. I mean, it was, we were talking right before the show started. It was like, you've, you've really created, it, it, it feels like you're in a family. Everybody gets along, everybody knows each other, everybody takes their job very seriously. Everybody loves their job and wants to be there. You don't see that very many places.

• 15:27Speaker 02

  Well, it's important, you know, I think that um we get to work with a lot of people. And I really want to instill, like, we really want the customer service to be at its highest, you know? Because we get to, people are vulnerable with us. People aren't feeling good. And um we put a lot of time into kind of how do we create a unit? I'm so grateful for my team. Like they are just, they always show up. They want to work hard and they're really dedicated to helping the people we work with. So I appreciate you saying that.

• 15:56Shawn Ryan?

  Well, they're awesome. So kudos to the Conover Wellness team. Seriously, you guys are awesome.

• 16:02Speaker 02

  I appreciate that.

• 16:03Shawn Ryan?

  You're doing amazing work.

• 16:04Speaker 02

  Well, thank you.

• 16:07Shawn Ryan?

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• 16:48Shawn Ryan?

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• 17:31Shawn Ryan?

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• 17:54Shawn Ryan?

  A lot of people want to talk about tradecraft. How to hide, how to conceal yourself, how to escape, how to evade. But here's the thing, the true professional, that's not the guy that's always on the run.

• 18:15Shawn Ryan?

  It's the guy who never shows up on the map to begin with.

• 18:23Shawn Ryan?

  Which brings me to my next point.

• 18:27Shawn Ryan?

  Your phone is talking.

• 18:30Shawn Ryan?

  It's talking through apps you may or may not use. A lot of them you probably never use.

• 18:38Shawn Ryan?

  Talking to servers that you've never even heard of. That are telling them where you've been, where you are, what you buy, and all kinds of other information that you don't want out.

• 18:55Shawn Ryan?

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• 19:00Shawn Ryan?

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• 19:04Shawn Ryan?

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• 19:07Shawn Ryan?

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• 19:40Shawn Ryan?

  It's protection.

• 19:42Shawn Ryan?

  The Glacier App.

• 19:46Speaker 02

  So let's go, let's dive into your story a little bit here. And so you had a, you had a death sentence at age 46, it sounded like. I did, I did. Yeah. So I was, we have friends in Hawaii who we see once or twice a year and we'd come back. It was August of 2020. And soon after we got back, I started having abdominal pain and I tried to, you know, dismiss it, not think much about it. But it persisted, it got worse. Um, so I was like, well, let me figure this out myself. Um, so I did testing on myself. And from what I could see from the lab results, maybe I had a gut infection. So I was like, okay, I'm gonna take some antibiotics. I'm even gonna take some steroids because to calm

• 20:27Speaker 02

  down the inflammation, I did that, seemed to get better. And then I remember I was playing tennis with my wife. It was Labor Day of that year, and I had to stop playing. And I, the pain was so intense. So I have a friend who's a radiologist. I got in touch with him. I said, hey, I gotta do a CAT scan. So he arranged for me to get a CAT scan the next day, went and had a CAT scan. Then I remember driving back from my office. This was the day after Labor Day. And he said, you need to go to the emergency room right now. This is a very serious situation. You have what's called a portal vein thrombosis. So this is a blood clot of the vein that kind of comes up from the lower extremities into the liver. So it's

• 21:08Speaker 02

  the main vein coming to the liver. If you lose that, you die. And, uh, so I stopped at the office, picked up my wife, didn't really know what was going on. But I knew I was in a lot of pain. Um, and I honestly, I don't know if I'd ever heard of a portal vein thrombosis. I've certainly heard of a deep venous thrombosis, which is what a lot of people have, you know, heard of a DBT. And I'd heard of a pulmonary embolism, which happens in the lung, blood clots in the lung. But this was in between it. I don't think I'd ever heard of a portal vein thrombosis. We got to the emergency room. They started me on a blood thinner heparin. And, um, I remember the ER doctor walked in and he said, hey, did you see the actual radiology report of what, you know, what was diagnosed? I said

• 21:53Speaker 02

  I didn't. So he handed it to me and I read, read about the blood clot. But I also read that I had a mass in the head of my pancreas.

• 22:02Speaker 02

  Whoa. And I turned to him and I said, because my wife was sitting there, and I said, I, I can't tell her this. And, um, so he told her. And I can still hear the shriek. Shit. That's 46 years old. I'm obviously aware that if I had pancreatic cancer, that's almost a death sentence. Yeah. So it was during COVID. So she had to leave, you know, couldn't stay in the hospital. And they said, we want to do an MRI of your, um, liver to look at this more in depth. And I remember they took me up to the MRI suite. But for whatever reason, Sean, they left me there for a while. Like, there was a delay or something. And I had the most amazing

• 22:47Speaker 02

  experience maybe of my life, where I was with God, and just received tremendous peace.

• 22:57Speaker 02

  Like, knowing that everything's okay. And, um, it was an amazing moment. And all I can tell you, it's hard to articulate, but all I can tell you is, uh, it's all okay. You felt at peace? I felt at total peace. Knowing that you... I just felt total peace. I, I just knew. I just knew it was okay. I just... Were you for sure you were going to die? I wasn't sure. I can't say that. I, I, you know... I mean, a mass on your pancreas is... It's pretty close to a death sentence. Uh huh. So the next morning, I got through the night. Um, next morning, that same ER doctor comes in. But now, hold on, that just came over you?

• 23:41Speaker 02

  It, it, I, I lost track of time, but it was probably over a two hour time period that, and, and let me back up. I, I've always had a close relationship with God. It's always been foundational for me. I've always felt connected to God. This wasn't new per se, like this feeling and what that feels like. It was new in, in how far it went. It was new in like, wow, this is, it's all okay. Like, it's all okay. God told me he's got my back, regardless of the outcome. Wow. Regardless. So the next morning, that same ER doctor came in. And, um, he said,

• 24:24Speaker 02

  hey, I was thinking about you overnight. Did you see your MRI results? I said, no.

• 24:32Speaker 02

  He said, you don't have cancer.

• 24:37Speaker 02

  Yeah. What did you have? So I can't tell you that I didn't have a miracle, healing. It was gone? Gone. Holy shit. Or, I mean, I'm pragmatic, I'm practical. Maybe it was an overread by the radiologist. I don't know. But he saw something. He saw something, he wouldn't put it on the report.

• 25:01Speaker 02

  And my research after that, is that a portal vein thrombosis, like, all the time occurs in the setting of cancer.

• 25:12Speaker 02

  So, maybe I did have a miracle. Seriously. And I, and I've, and I've witnessed other patients have miracle healing. I have. It's possible. I don't doubt it. I'm in. And for your listeners, like, and this is an important point, like, anything is possible. Anything is possible. And, and for me, it was such a pivotal moment in my life. And even though it was at its potentially darkest hour, I would never trade that. I would never do it differently. Ever. Because that experience I had with God and finding that total peace stays with me to today.

• 25:52Speaker 02

  Wow. And, and I'm so thankful for that. That's powerful. So thankful. And that's why I just know it's all okay. No matter what, you know? And I think when people, because people, a lot of time, they want to separate out, hey, is this disease? How, how does this relate to God? And it's all the same. It's all linked up. It's all synchronized. Obviously, depending on what people believe. But for me, um, so transformative. Man, all that. Unbelievably transformative. And then, you know, it was a very confusing time being a patient. Um, I had, doctors didn't know what to do with me.

• 26:34Speaker 02

  Well, hold on, what, how did you, so, your, then your wife comes back? What, how did she? Yeah. And then I, so yeah, sorry. So she comes back that morning and, you know, literally crying together, like, she spent the whole night upset. I mean, I get upset thinking about it, like, she thought she was gonna lose me. Man. And comes back and I get to give her the good news. You know, and I followed up on this. I've done several scans since then. It's, this isn't a fluke. Like, I don't have it. Wow. And, um, you know, and then being able to, you know, I'm very grateful for my wife because she's been my rock. Man, I love these kind of stories. We're talking about some of this kind of stuff at breakfast. Yeah.

• 27:20Speaker 02

  Shit. Yeah. This is where it gets really real. This was 2020? This was 2020. This was 2020. And, you know, I, it just affected me personally, affected me professionally, you know, because I still had the blood clot. But they didn't know what to do with me, right? I, it was such a fluky thing. They, um, and, and, you know, I know we're gonna talk about, a lot about peptides and kind of more outside the box therapies. But I want to make the point, like, they put me on a blood thinner that I take to this day. I believe that pharmaceuticals are here to help us, you know? Do I have to take it? Probably not. But it gives me peace of mind, you know? And for me, that's

• 28:05Speaker 02

  very important. Very important. I got a lot of life left, you know? I got a lot that I want to help people. And so, you know, taking that blood thinner every evening, easy. And I believe in it. I believe in it.

• 28:23Speaker 02

  Wow. But I mean, being in the hospital is so interesting because I was the patient, you know? And I, what happened was, is they, they released me the next day, on a blood thinner. It was probably too soon. And by the end of the week, I had worsening pain. And I'd go back to the emergency room. And they scanned me again, and said, now the blood clot had extended, and is now affecting my colon, and my large intestine, and that,

• 28:51Speaker 02

  they had to figure this out even further. They couldn't figure it out. I had every test under the sun, never could find anything that said it was this or that. Very, very strange. So they switched up my blood thinner. I was in the hospital for another, almost a week. And, um, you know, I, I met several doctors and it, and it really was profound for me. I, I'd been on this path of like, I think we're all on a path of like, what are we doing here? What is the purpose? And for me, that's both personally and professionally. And being a doctor and knowing what I know, and then being treated as a patient by doctors, outside of my hematologist, my hematologist is amazing. I still work with him today. These

• 29:31Speaker 02

  doctors were not very helpful. I remember, you know, I was in a lot of pain. And I remember saying, hey, can I get a prescrip-, I remember this conversation, can I get a prescription for pain medicine for when I leave? You don't need to give me a lot. But just, I'm still in some pain. I'm not asking for a ton, but some. And they told me, no. We're not gonna give you any pain medicine. And I was like, I don't understand. Like, I'm really confused. Like, I have legitimate pain. I've been in the hospital almost a week with a portal vein thrombosis that you guys have never seen, I'm 46 years old. And you refuse to give me pain medicine.

• 30:14Shawn Ryan?

  What is, what's, what's going on with the healthcare industry? I mean, it's just, you can't get in, I don't know what it's like everywhere here. You can't get an appointment anywhere. It's like a six month wait. I mean, you go, you go there, they spend 30 seconds with you.

• 30:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:33Shawn Ryan?

  All your blood work, work looks great. They don't go through shit with you.

• 30:37Speaker 02

  No.

• 30:38Shawn Ryan?

  You know, and I mean, didn't they just change the mammogram thing too? Weren't you supposed to get it?

• 30:44Speaker 02

  I think they've lowered, yeah, they've lowered the age of mammograms, which I want to talk to you about. Yeah.

• 30:50Shawn Ryan?

  Well, they, they, they spread it out. Like it used to be, I don't, I don't know. My wife knows, we were just talking about this, but it used to be every six months. And now they've upped it to a year and they've, I think they raised the age, I thought, but, and she's like, what, what, like, what is this? So it's just, all the good doctors are now out of, out of insurance networks. They're all, they're all gone, you know, and, and what, what, what happened? Like we, we, well, we go to private health.

• 31:19Speaker 02

  I mean, yep, you come see me. Yeah. I, I think, I think it's worth, like, and this was a kind of inflection point for me, having this experience. You know, I've always kind of been trying to understand, how do we get here? And really then I kind of dove into it. And if we go back and, and I want to express to your listeners, the healthcare system's actually working perfectly. Because the healthcare system treats us as customers, not patients. So it's working just fine. Did you know it's the largest employer in almost every state?

• 31:54Shawn Ryan?

  That's a surprise. I didn't know that.

• 31:56Speaker 02

  The large, in, in, in many states, it's the fastest growing industry, many states. So we have a system that's working super well as a business. And, and what I learned from researching it, it goes, it goes back deep, right? So in 1910, there was something called the Flexner Report, which was kind of created by John D Rockefeller, uh, and Andrew Carnegie, right? Two of the biggest, wealthiest families in America. And what the Flexner Report did was to look at medical education and decide what should go forward and be allowed and focused on, and what should be excluded.

• 32:41Speaker 02

  And it's hard for us to understand this because we live in 2026, where everything is dominated by pharmaceuticals and randomized controlled studies and surgeries. But if you go back to before the 1900s, other types of health modalities were flourishing that we now, in very real sense, consider rogue, right? So I'm talking about acupuncture, chiropractic, naturopathy, herbalism, hydrotherapy, fitness, nutrition. What they did literally was say, medical education can't focus on those. And I lived it, right? I went to medical, I graduated in 2000. And the model that I came up from, which I'm sure is teaching today,

• 33:23Speaker 02

  is when a patient walks in the room, you're immediately thinking, what medicine am I prescribing? You're not thinking what, what's going on with the patient? What's the story? How did they get here? What are they feeling? You're thinking, what diagnosis can I come up with to give them a medicine or three medicines? And that system works very well in this system. And so for a lot of people talking about, oh, peptides, right? Well, there's no studies because we've been trained to think that it doesn't count unless there's a study. But if we go back and look, for example, ashwagandha is a botanical herb in, used in the Ayurvedic system. It's been in the historical record for thousands of years, thousands of years.

• 34:06Speaker 02

  And I remember I gave a talk many, many years ago at this power company in Charleston. We're talking about sleep. We're talking about different natural options. And I said, well, ashwagandha actually is great at helping clear out cortisol receptors and people, you know, observing them sleep better. Over time, taking ashwagandha, it's very safe. And a gentleman raised his hand, he goes, but has it been studied? I said, well, it's been studied in the historical record for thousands of years. He goes, that doesn't matter.

• 34:35Shawn Ryan?

  What do you mean that doesn't matter?

• 34:37Speaker 02

  But that's where we are, right? And so we have, we've been trained, we've been programmed that we have to look at anything like we do pharmaceuticals. But the reality is we can't, right? The pharmaceutical testing is very expensive. I mean, everyone knows that, exorbitantly expensive. And it's also very biased, right? I don't put a lot of weight on that. Like when I'm sitting in front of a patient, I'm interested in them. I want to know what works for them. I'm not interested in a study that says, hey, if you're 45, I don't even know what that means. Most of it's done in artificial settings. They certainly can't control for the things they say they can control for.

• 35:17Speaker 02

  Rarely do they control for all the variables of being human, sleep, diet, movement, thought process. It just doesn't happen. Now, again, I'm not saying pharmaceuticals are bad. I don't think that pharmaceutical companies are evil. I think they're playing perfectly into the industrial medical complex perfectly.

• 35:34Shawn Ryan?

  Uh huh, uh huh.

• 35:36Speaker 02

  And I point that out to your listeners because we don't talk about this enough, right? We, we talk about it as there's one way to do this, right? And if you look at statistically, the majority of Americans take pharmaceuticals. That's how we define health. Yet the majority of Americans are overweight, tired and depressed as well.

• 35:58Shawn Ryan?

  Very true.

• 36:01Speaker 02

  And, and it's challenging. It's challenging for listeners to know what to do, where to turn.

• 36:09Shawn Ryan?

  I mean, I feel like a lot of people are kind of waking up to this.

• 36:12Speaker 02

  I do too. I'm hopeful.

• 36:13Shawn Ryan?

  I sure as hell have.

• 36:15Speaker 02

  And I, and I actually think that COVID and the pandemic, as bad as it was, there was a silver lining there.

• 36:22Shawn Ryan?

  Uh huh.

• 36:23Speaker 02

  Um, I think doctors lost a lot of faith and trust from people and for good reason.

• 36:29Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 36:29Speaker 02

  For good reason, but I think it helps spur on for people. I want to take care of myself, you know, I, I, I got COVID the next year after I got that portal vein thrombosis. It was August of 2021. I got COVID, I think it was the Delta variant. I almost died again. I mean, I've, I've never been as sick as that. I mean, I was out of commission for three weeks at home on oxygen. And I, I couldn't get better. Like it was one of the weirdest times, like I would, I just, and I finally had to be hospitalized. And I didn't want to go to the hospital because I was afraid if, because my blood, I would measure my blood such, my oxygen saturation. It was in the eighties, right? It should be 95 or higher, certainly 93 or higher. Mine was in the eighties and I'd be at oxygen home.

• 37:14Speaker 02

  I knew if I went in, they'd want to put people on ventilators and that was killing people. Because we didn't know.

• 37:21Shawn Ryan?

  Shit.

• 37:22Speaker 02

  Crazy time. And so I was reluctant to seek help for sure.

• 37:29Shawn Ryan?

  Wow.

• 37:30Speaker 02

  But then eventually I had to go to the hospital and I, I did fine, but.

• 37:34Shawn Ryan?

  How long were you in there?

• 37:37Speaker 02

  I think, so I went for a weird reason. So I developed, I think pneumonia on top of the COVID. And I was taking antibiotic, but because I was on a blood thinning medicine, the antibiotic made my blood thinner, made my blood super thin. There was an interaction there.

• 37:52Shawn Ryan?

  Got you.

• 37:53Speaker 02

  And I remember waking up, I was sleeping on the couch, couldn't even sleep in bed with my wife because I, I, it was so uncomfortable and I was on oxygen. I didn't want to disturb her. But I remember I was in the middle of the night, woke up and I started urinating frank blood because my blood had gotten so thin that I, I was literally urinating blood. And I told her, I woke her up and I was like, I gotta go now. And I went and it all worked out okay. I mean, and, and I only had, I stayed there, I think it was either one or two nights. I had to stay in the emergency room. There wasn't even, the hospital was packed. It was totally full.

• 38:30Shawn Ryan?

  Jeez.

• 38:32Speaker 02

  But I think there's some silver lining. I think that, you know, people, to your point, are waking up saying, I want more than just taking a pill.

• 38:40Shawn Ryan?

  I sure as hell did. Everybody I know has. Yeah, I mean, and, and I don't know. I, I feel like there's like two healthcare systems now. There's the private healthcare system that seem, everybody seems to be gravitating towards. And then there's the traditional one, the traditional American one.

• 39:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 39:01Shawn Ryan?

  That, that, or maybe North American one. I don't know, but there's, there's the in-network and out now, out of network and.

• 39:09Speaker 02

  I think it's accurate.

• 39:10Shawn Ryan?

  And nobody wants to be in-network anymore.

• 39:13Speaker 02

  Well, I think, I think.

• 39:14Shawn Ryan?

  Especially, especially people my age and older, you know, I think a lot of the young people don't really care yet, but, but they should.

• 39:23Speaker 02

  Well, I think, I think we have, I think it's time for evolution of it, right? I think that if we look at the history of it and people are saying, oh, I have the health insurance. Health insurance is not for the healthy, right? Like it's a disease-based approach. And I think it does a good job, right? When I was really sick, as much as I questioned it, I still was there to help me. If you fracture your leg, it's there to help you. If you're in an acute situation, it's there to help you. But that's not how we get healthy and that's not how we optimize. And I think that's why people are getting disgruntled.

• 39:54Shawn Ryan?

  Is there any, what do you think about the ivermectin thing?

• 39:58Speaker 02

  I'm a big fan of ivermectin.

• 40:00Shawn Ryan?

  Is it true this is an anti-cancer drug?

• 40:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think it can be used for that.

• 40:04Shawn Ryan?

  How do you use it for that?

• 40:06Speaker 02

  I think it depends, right? So they're looking at it more and more in terms of how to dose it. I learned about it during COVID, right? And we learned about, you know, people doing research in terms, clinical research, in terms of weight-based ivermectin, where we would use a dose of 0.2 milligrams per kilogram, and you find out the patient's weight, and then you do a calculation, say, this is how much they need, and you'd either give it to them, you know, again, for COVID symptoms, even though it got such a terrible rap, you know, after Joe Rogan said he was using ivermectin, then the world came down saying, how dare you, even though it's been used for decades safely worldwide. I mean, ivermectin is an inexpensive, valuable medicine.

• 40:49Speaker 02

  But during COVID, one of the big troubles not to get off course, I'll come back, is the focus, all the focus was on the vaccines. The focus was not on treatment.

• 40:59Speaker 02

  And that's still probably true to this day, and they're still promoting COVID vaccines, which is crazy to me. But if we remember, it was all about, you need to get your vaccine, not that, what do you do if you get COVID? And ivermectin seemed to be, for a lot of people, again, just clinically, a way out, and a quick way out. And so since that time, people have been exploring, can we use it for other inflammatory conditions, whether it's viral illness, whether it's cancer? Cancer's complicated. But I'll tell you, you know, an interesting thing. To this day, if I were to call in, send in ivermectin for a patient to a pharmacy, they wouldn't fill it.

• 41:36Shawn Ryan?

  What? Why? Why?

• 41:37Speaker 02

  Yeah. And I'm not going to say that's every pharmacy, because it's not true, but it's most. And they say, what is the diagnosis code? And now, that doesn't matter, right? If I see you as a patient, and I decide, hey, this is an appropriate drug, and I want to make a point to patients, because this always comes up, well, it's off-label. 90% of medicine that's prescribed is off-label, by the way, meaning we use it outside of the indication that the FDA approved it, right? So the best example is antibiotics. Antibiotics tend to have a very narrow classification, right? Meaning, I'll take penicillin for a type of bacteria.

• 42:18Speaker 02

  However, people use penicillin for lots of different bacteria. We don't actually test the bacteria anymore in many ways, because that's inefficient. Most medicine is prescribed off-label. And so what they're saying, so the FDA approval for ivermectin has nothing to do with a viral illness, has nothing to do with cancer. So this has happened to me so many times, where I thought it was appropriate because of the safety profile, number one, it's super safe, we don't see side effects from ivermectin. And two, my clinical observation, and working with patients, and having a relationship and prescribing, is they seem to get better faster than ones using ivermectin, not always. And so if I send that into a pharmacy, I've spoken to so many pharmacists who say, well,

• 43:01Speaker 02

  we need the diagnosis code. And I was like, well, here's a diagnosis, that doesn't qualify, we can't prescribe it, we're not filling it.

• 43:08Shawn Ryan?

  What was it originally used for?

• 43:11Speaker 02

  I feel like it was, I don't even remember at this point. It was like, something along the lines of like scabies or something like that, some like small, yeah, that's what it's used like for worldwide, we'll call it a parasite.

• 43:23Shawn Ryan?

  Gotcha.

• 43:23Speaker 02

  Like a type of parasite. So if you tell the pharmacy, oh, it's a viral illness, because there's a diagnosis code for that, they'll say, that doesn't qualify, so we're not filling it. And I'd say, well, so you're going to stand in the way of the patient getting the mess and say, well, we don't feel comfortable filling it. I mean, this is a real thing.

• 43:44Speaker 02

  Very strange. And I think it's a huge disservice. Huge disservice to patients. Because again, I'm trained as a doctor, we've all heard of the Hippocratic oath.

• 43:54Shawn Ryan?

  Why have they?

• 43:56Speaker 02

  I think it got politicized.

• 43:58Shawn Ryan?

  That's it?

• 43:59Speaker 02

  It got politicized. It was determined, again, if, I don't know, this is just my observation, we go back to COVID, we're more interested in the COVID vaccine, and, you know, giving everyone a vaccine than actually coming up with solutions to help them when they got COVID. And I think it's a remnant of that. And people were taking ivermectin, having success, and that was like, how dare you? You should be vaccinated.

• 44:24Speaker 02

  Yeah. And it became this, you know, line in the sand, which I think is unfortunate.

• 44:30Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, I just, I was just in Mexico, bought a ton of ivermectin, because I was reading about the, the anti-cancer, it could be a deterrent or anti-cancer.

• 44:43Speaker 02

  For sure. I think there's a lot of this. I mean, there's a, there's a big push. I don't do it per se, because I don't really work with cancer, but there's a big push from, from doctors who work with cancer, repurposing drugs to help with cancer, you know? So there's different clinical scenarios I've heard, patients using doxycycline, ivermectin, bendezol is another anti-parasitic medicine, methylene blue, which we'll talk about, is another one of these agents, which can be helpful, metformin's another one. I mean, there's a whole host of them that we can actually be smart about.

• 45:14Shawn Ryan?

  Doxycycline, huh?

• 45:15Speaker 02

  Doxycycline seems to kill cancer stem cells, so it's not allowing those cancer stem cells to grow. Again, cancer is very complicated. I'm not an expert by any means. But I think, you know, I think if, I try to answer questions, what would I do? If I developed cancer, I would want every option on the table.

• 45:39Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, me too.

• 45:40Speaker 02

  And unfortunately, in the United States, it's very limited. In the state of California, interestingly enough, I've been in this recently, because I talked to a doctor, state of California, I don't know if this is still true, but it was true, if they see a patient has cancer, and you recommend something that's not a pharmaceutical, they'll come after your medical license.

• 46:04Shawn Ryan?

  Not surprising at all.

• 46:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, and it's, that's not how we make progress, right? I think one of the challenges, we live in such a dogmatic society, it's either bad or good, this is evil, this is good, and the truth is usually somewhere in the middle. And it's hard. It's hard for people to know what's real.

• 46:24Shawn Ryan?

  Well, let's take a break real quick.

• 46:25Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 46:28Shawn Ryan?

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• 47:11Shawn Ryan?

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• 47:27Shawn Ryan?

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• 48:08Shawn Ryan?

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• 48:23Shawn Ryan?

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• 48:30Shawn Ryan?

  All right, Doc, before we move on to the, uh, the outer and the inner war, wanted to, we, we, I forgot to bring up some of this ancient medicine stuff.

• 48:41Shawn Ryan?

  Native American, Egyptian, Greek?

• 48:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, I, I think the, for me, yeah, first of all, I, for whatever reason, I've been fascinated with ancient history. I remember being as early as five years old or six years old, reading about ancient worlds. I actually, in college, I majored in something called Old World Archaeology and Art. I've been in archaeological digs. Um, so I've always had this fascination with what happened in the ancient world. And, um, and then I, you know, go to medical school and then, you know, learning about, you know, kind of just changing how I think in terms of, I learned that the medical model was really two things. Either you're going to take a medicine or multiple medicines, or we're going to have surgery.

• 49:30Speaker 02

  And when I kind of started thinking about, what did people do hundred, two hundred, three hundred thousand, two thousand years ago?

• 49:41Speaker 02

  They seemed to me more, um, connected, one, to God, and two, we're trying to articulate systems for human health. They just didn't have the vocabulary to describe that we would, you know, term that in modern terms. Uh, and I find this fascinating, you know, um, because I really do think that in many ways, as a society, maybe across the world, we're devolving. We're going the wrong direction, you know, and I think some of that is our knowledge, but certainly the wisdom that's applied, we're totally disconnected from nature, you know?

• 50:13Shawn Ryan?

  What do you mean devolving? Like, we're, we're getting sicker?

• 50:16Speaker 02

  We're getting sicker, dumber, and less connected.

• 50:21Speaker 02

  I think most people could recognize that.

• 50:23Shawn Ryan?

  Oh, yeah. I mean,

• 50:27Shawn Ryan?

  I was, I was watching a document, I can't remember the document, I'm trying to think of the name, but it's not going to come to me. But it was talking about all these diseases, a lot of the diseases that we have today are not even organic diseases, they're man-made diseases like cancer.

• 50:41Speaker 02

  That's what I'm talking about.

• 50:42Shawn Ryan?

  The pollutants and

• 50:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 50:44Shawn Ryan?

  microplastics and fucking smog and

• 50:48Speaker 02

  You name it.

• 50:48Shawn Ryan?

  Just all the shit in the soil, all the chemicals, all everything. It's not even, we wouldn't even have these diseases if we wouldn't have destroyed the planet.

• 50:59Speaker 02

  Hundred percent. And so tying it back to this, what I call the, that's the outer war, right? That's that we're being poisoned. And it's very real. Um, you know, for example, men with testosterone today?

• 51:13Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 51:14Speaker 02

  It's like fifty percent less than our grandparents.

• 51:17Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 51:18Speaker 02

  It's a real thing.

• 51:19Shawn Ryan?

  Why is it, why is it, what, what happened?

• 51:22Speaker 02

  I think it's what you just said, right? I think if we look at what the environmental toxins, right? Like, for example, microplastics. We look at even just the things that people probably don't take seriously, but the wifi, all the invisible waves. We're so connected to these phones and screen time and changing our physiology.

• 51:40Shawn Ryan?

  You think the, you think the EMF stuff is, is?

• 51:44Speaker 02

  I think it's very real. I think it's very real.

• 51:46Shawn Ryan?

  What do you do about that?

• 51:49Speaker 02

  I, again, I'm, I try to be practical, right? There's some people who are saying, never use your cell phone. That seems stupid to me, right? Like, it's such a convenience and such a tool. Um, but I, and I struggle with it. Like, I, I should put my phone down more, for sure. Um, I struggle with this. Um, so, so what do I do? I try to limit it, right? I certainly don't, um, I try to keep it off me as much as I can, right? So I'm not, I used to have it in my pocket all the time. I think that's probably bad, right? You're, it's an antenna. Um, so if I'm sitting anywhere, I have it put down. And then, um, something that I found to be really good is this device called Blue Shield, B L U Shield.

• 52:30Shawn Ryan?

  Blue Shield.

• 52:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's a company called Blue Shield. And they make this device, um, and I've gotten to know the guy who runs it really well, Brandon, who's super smart. Um, they make it this cube that I put in our bedroom, and it helps to mitigate the incoherent effect of wifi. Now, this is not my territory. I don't understand this well, but the way he explained it is with all these waves coming at us, which, you know, they desynchronize our own physiology, our own biochemistry, the rhythms of our body. And something like this, this cube, it helps to get them back in sync. That's the best I can understand.

• 53:16Shawn Ryan?

  Interesting. I was gonna paint.

• 53:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 53:20Shawn Ryan?

  You've heard of the EMF paint?

• 53:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, you know,

• 53:23Shawn Ryan?

  I was gonna do that, and then I read that

• 53:25Speaker 02

  You don't want to do that, because then, yeah.

• 53:27Shawn Ryan?

  I think I read that if it is in there, then it bounces, it just keeps bouncing around, and it's actually worse.

• 53:32Speaker 02

  I think that's right. And so, you know, I, I think, you know, one thing I'm excited about for our new office is, and I think the kind of the next phase in wellness is how do we deal with this, this energy? What is energy? You know what I mean? And so we're going to be setting up the first of its kind, uh, with the help of Brandon, you know, different modalities such as PEMF, which is pulsed electrical magnetic field therapy. People are pretty familiar with that. We're not just electrical beings, but we're magnetic beings.

• 54:01Speaker 02

  Um, we're going to combine that with vibrational therapy.

• 54:03Shawn Ryan?

  What, what is that?

• 54:04Speaker 02

  Vibrational, vibrational is where there's like these big plates, and it basically just vibrates you. Uh, because the mechanical force on your body, right? This is one of the reasons that's not spoken about, but exercise is so important. Because you're changing the mechanical force on yourselves. And again, tying it back to what did people used to do thousands of years ago, right? They had to do things like a lot of walking. They had to lift heavy stuff. They had to sprint every now and again. They were in touch with nature in ways that we don't. Now, I'm not saying don't go to a gym, because we have to work out and we have to take care of ourselves. But most of us, you know, work out under artificial lights, right? We don't take our time when we work out. We're rushing through. We're certainly not focused on the workout. We're thinking about, what do I got to do next?

• 54:49Speaker 02

  You know, and I think just trying to tie it all together to, to answer your question about ancient, it's very hard for us to understand what people did in the ancient world, because we think that we are evolving, that everything's getting better. Certainly, technology's better, but I don't think we know how to use it appropriately.

• 55:06Shawn Ryan?

  The electromagnetic?

• 55:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 55:08Shawn Ryan?

  Did you call electromagnetic therapy? Have you heard of a Rife machine?

• 55:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, for sure.

• 55:12Shawn Ryan?

  Is that real?

• 55:13Speaker 02

  I think it's very real. I think it's very real. Again,

• 55:16Shawn Ryan?

  Can you explain it?

• 55:17Speaker 02

  I'm not the expert, but here's how I think. I think that we are all frequency based, right? We are energy, we are different, we're, we're operating at different energy spectrums, which has to come down with different frequency. People can understand this. The best analogy I've heard is a, a radio, right? You turn the dial of the radio to pick up what's coming in from, you know, different sources, different towers, shooting out the different, whether it's AM or FM. And when you get to the one, it becomes crystal clear, right? Well, I think of us as the same way. We're antenna for what's going on in our environment, particularly our brains are, I think, right? That's how we pick up thoughts, that's how we pick up on stuff, is because either you're either dialed into the wrong station, right?

• 55:59Speaker 02

  And we talked about that before this podcast, and I think some of that's how that happens. And so if, I think one of the cool things that's, we're going to be able to use with technology is to help us become more coherent. So that we can then receive messages in a more coherent way, that we can be more tuned, lined up. And to me, that's really important. Unfortunately, we're, this outer war, right, is all of these, right, we're, we're basically, our planet's being microwaved, right? If you look at all the satellites circulating above the earth,

• 56:38Speaker 02

  right, and all this Neuralink stuff that's coming, and all this star, I mean, it, it's a lot. We're basically microwaving ourselves in an environment which is already polluted with pesticides, herbicides, glyphosate, toxicities, heavy metals. I just tell people, think about all the airplanes flying over us every single day, the amount of jet fuel, which has a ton of heavy metals, is pouring down on us every day. To your point, this is all new.

• 57:07Speaker 02

  Last fifty, hundred years, all of it's new. And so our lens, we're told to believe that this is natural. It's natural to have heart disease and cancer and autoimmune disease. By the way, there's more autoimmune disease than cancer and heart disease combined. More neurodegenerative disease. People are concerned about dementia, Alzheimer's dementia, Parkinson's. You know, it's very real. And so we're being attacked. Uh huh. I mean, you know, I think all of that's real. And so a lot of the work we can do, which I'll get into, which I think is the inner war, which is working on ourselves. So the inner, you think there's, there's two wars, the inner war and the outer war? Yeah, I think most people pay attention to the wrong things. I think most people are paying attention to what's going on in the media, what's going on in politics, what's going on, people out to get us, right?

• 57:51Speaker 02

  And they don't take the time to actually work on themselves. They don't actually take the time to- I'm definitely guilty of that. We're all guilty of it. You know, and I think that it's hard because we're told that what matters more is what's going on the outside. But if you think about it, I mean, I can tell you for me, a non-negotiable for me in the morning is I get up every morning or every morning early, excuse me, we have these two little dogs we're obsessed with and take them out, feed them. Uh, and then that's when I'm total silence, praying, meditating, journaling. That's a non-negotiable for me because when I do that, I don't care what happens the rest of the day. We're all busy, things are coming at us, people needing stuff, gotta do this, gotta accomplish that.

• 58:35Speaker 02

  But to me, that, and then the end of the day, when I can connect with my wife, I mean, catch up and kind of share what happened, the two non-negotiables. You know what I mean? Most people would say, well, I gotta get to the gym, I gotta work out, I gotta, you know, be whatever, you know? Um, to me, it's about the internal conversation more than the external conversation. Now, that's just me. But to give you an example, I mean, I work with one of the, I'm just thinking of this, one of the most famous actors on the planet, recognizable across the world, not going to name names. By all intent, you look at him, leading best life, and he is, no doubt, very successful in all facets of his life, great family. But this part of his life, when we started working, wasn't as developed as he wanted

• 59:20Speaker 02

  it to be. And I helped him kind of get that back for himself, about what it is to wake up and have that silence and work on yourself. You know, the introspective work, which I call contemplative introspective, or, you know, being contemplative, I think is really important. And, and, and the silence and, you know, over the whatever year and a half, almost two years I've been working with him, you know, he shared with me recently, because he had some big movies come out, that he's really found his purpose and more importantly, his peace. And that peace, like I told you about what I was able to find in that hospital, I think once you find it, changes everything. And that, to me, is what the center war is about.

• 1:00:05Speaker 02

  And that's why I, I think, not to overstate it, but I think we've gotten lost. And I think that people think, particularly with health and longevity, that it's a destination. I don't think it is. I, I think we're already here. I think it's just directional change. And I really see, love to talk more about, all these different therapies, they're a bridge, not to get us anywhere, but to get us back to ourselves. That's what's so cool. They're literally a bridge to help us find ourselves again. And that, to me, is fascinating. And that's how I look at it. I really think, whether it's peptides or nutrients or hormones, they're a bridge.

• 1:00:49Speaker 02

  Because ultimately, what I want for all of my patients, all the people I care about, not to need me anymore, to figure it out. I want to continue to help. But that's a very contrast to the medical model, where if you're not a customer, you're not paying in, they don't need you, you know what I mean? Uh huh, uh huh. Talking about two totally different things. Interesting. Where do we go from here? Well, I think we've described the outer war pretty well, right? I think it's the things external, I think it's also our attention. I think we're paying attention to social media feeds and the algorithms that are being presented to you and picking a side, and that's how you're defining your life, you're, you're not paying attention to yourself.

• 1:01:33Speaker 02

  Lot of distractions. Lot of distractions. I think those phones are super helpful, but they're also a huge distraction. Again, I think you can use them well. I'm not saying to put down your phone or ignore it or turn off social media, and you gotta find, everyone's gotta figure out what- And I turned off social media. We were talking about that at breakfast. It's been gone for over a month now. Everything gone. Yeah. It's amazing. Yeah. It really is. You get more clarity. Yeah, it's- And again, I don't want to keep harping on this, but what do people do a hundred, I mean, social media is new, phones are not even 20 years old. It's crazy. But we think this is how life has been lived, it's not even close. So what do people do a hundred, two hundred, thousand years ago? They were with each other, you know?

• 1:02:18Speaker 02

  They were finding things to eat, they were taking care of each other. Yeah. There was a lot more purpose and to me, it's about finding your own who you are again, to find that awareness, to find that vitality, right? So when I think about how can I help someone lead their best life, from a health perspective, it's tapping into that vitality. I just read, the last book I read, which I think you're, probably a lot of your listeners now, I don't know if you know, by Dan Millman, The Way of the Peaceful Warrior. Hmm. Wonderful book. I mean, it's a wonderful, it's about this gymnast back in the sixties, who's this, you know, super awesome college gymnast, who's, from a physical perspective, I mean, he's

• 1:03:01Speaker 02

  got it, becomes qualified for the Olympics, and he meets this kind of crazy old man who takes him under his wing and teaches him about how to find purpose and attention again in his life, so it just doesn't pass him by. And there, and there's so many little valuable, you know, things that came from reading that book. Because I think, you know, he talks about what he thinks as his mentor, the goal is becoming a warrior, a peaceful warrior. And the job of a peaceful warrior is to find unreasonable happiness. Unreasonable happiness.

• 1:03:44Speaker 02

  Meaning, he says, the fool uses things to, he does, to, to take him to happiness, whereas the warrior can be happy at any moment, at any time. And I would take that a step further and say, what I'm hoping for people is to find unreasonable joy. And I think we'll talk about it a little bit, but for me, it's the best analogy, I didn't come up with it, is being a warrior in a garden. Meaning, you're strong, you take care of yourself and your family, but you also know how to cultivate peace and love and compassion.

• 1:04:27Shawn Ryan?

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• 1:05:10Shawn Ryan?

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• 1:05:39Speaker 02

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• 1:06:22Speaker 02

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• 1:06:58Shawn Ryan?

  I liked what you said this morning, that quote.

• 1:07:01Speaker 02

  About the game?

• 1:07:02Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:03Speaker 02

  One of my favorite quotes, yeah. You want to win the game, stop playing.

• 1:07:06Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:07Speaker 02

  Yeah. And that's what this, that's what I'm saying with this outer war. People are playing that game, and we're being played. And it's very real. But if you want the most biological sovereignty, you got to focus on yourself. You got to stop playing that game. Play your own game.

• 1:07:25Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:27Speaker 02

  It's all possible.

• 1:07:28Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah. It's killing us. It is.

• 1:07:33Speaker 02

  It is. And I think it's taking away our attention. I think it's taking away our ability to know what's real and what's not real. It's, I mean, and I feel for people. They don't know where to get reliable information. You know, one of the things I wanted to talk to you about is, you know, one of the problems with the current medical model is what I call the three traps. The first is what I call the pill push, right? This is what most people are used to, where, we've talked about it. It's giving people pharmaceuticals, and more pharmaceuticals, and more pharmaceuticals. And again, I don't think doctors mean poorly. I don't think doctors are out to get you. It's just they don't know any better. I,

• 1:08:16Speaker 02

  you know, one of the things I take pride in, and what I enjoy doing, is we train other doctors and providers. Done this for years and years and years. And I love it. I love the collegial aspect, but I also love, because I didn't have someone to help me get to where I am. I had to make a lot of mistakes, and most of it self-learned through experience, working with great patients. But I want to help them start to think differently.

• 1:08:35Shawn Ryan?

  I mean, it's obvious that you're not against.

• 1:08:37Speaker 02

  I'm not.

• 1:08:38Shawn Ryan?

  Pills, because we just talked to your honor blood thinner.

• 1:08:41Speaker 02

  I am. I take it.

• 1:08:41Shawn Ryan?

  For the past, what, six years?

• 1:08:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, I take it.

• 1:08:44Shawn Ryan?

  So.

• 1:08:45Speaker 02

  I'm not against medicine, but that's one of the traps. The next trap is the supplement shuffle. We have these, all these functional medicine doctors who basically exchange pharmaceuticals for nutraceuticals. And this is very common.

• 1:08:56Shawn Ryan?

  Nutraceuticals. I've never heard that term.

• 1:08:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, like supplements. It's like a fancy word for supplement. I mean, I have so many patients who come into my office, and they're in 47 supplements. And this is common. Well, it's natural. But that doesn't mean it works. Can be safe, right? So patients are taking their vitamin D, their fish oil, their probiotics, on and on and on. They don't even know what they're taking anymore. And then they get thrown into this loop, where there's constant testing, testing, testing, and that kind of the paradigm is take this for that. And I have a problem with that. And then the last trap, what we're most familiar with, which is the biohacker influencer, which is all in, right? And promoting all of this testing, like crazy. You know, now this full-body MRI scan is becoming so popular.

• 1:09:41Shawn Ryan?

  Is that bad?

• 1:09:44Speaker 02

  I think, again, I don't know if it's bad. I just think you have to be careful. You're basically looking for things we don't necessarily have. And I think it can create a lot of anxiety and stress. And here's what I'll tell you, and I think this is hard for people to get to, because they say, well, I want to find it, so I can do something about it. Well, how do you know your body wouldn't have done something about it anyway? Right? So to give you just modern-day examples, and this is real, they, they recently looked at, I think it was in an article in JAMA, one of the big medical journals, I think it was 2022. They found that CT scans would likely contribute or cause 5% of cancers

• 1:10:25Speaker 02

  annually. Over, I think it was like 100,000-plus cancers would come from CT scanning alone. Right? Mammography, which we touched upon. They've done studies to show that mammography does not change mortality, meaning we have plenty more women diagnosed with breast cancer, yet women are not living longer because of that. Colonoscopy, same thing. So, we're screening, and I get it, because people are like, I got to find it. But then we're creating

• 1:11:06Speaker 02

  problems, right? I mean, I've had patients who diagnosed from a mammogram with breast cancer. And again, I'm not saying they shouldn't do this. It's an individual choice. But then they go down the chemo path. They go down the radiation path. And that, that can be ultimately what kills them, not the cancer. And this is a complicated, and it's also a very touchy subject. And I'm not speaking out against these therapies. I think there's, again, like we've said, if I was diagnosed with cancer, I want all options on the table.

• 1:11:39Speaker 02

  The problem is, is we're, we're being pushed and coerced in a certain direction, that if you don't screen for it, you're doing something wrong. I have an innate trust in the human body that God created to figure things out.

• 1:11:52Shawn Ryan?

  So you don't get screened?

• 1:11:53Speaker 02

  I don't do those screenings, no. I don't.

• 1:11:55Shawn Ryan?

  You don't do the MRI?

• 1:11:56Speaker 02

  No. I've had too many patients who, and I, I understand. They say, well, I want to know. I say, but the problem once you know is you can't unknow. And you're going to be anxious every day till you do something about it. And they say, no, I'll be fine. And that's not what happens. Because now you've diagnosed with something in your liver. I mean, I just had, I just had this conversation with a patient this past week. He, one of the common tests that men get done is what's called a PSA, prostate-specific antigen. It's not a good test, but it's a blood test to look for prostate cancer. And so.

• 1:12:33Shawn Ryan?

  Why is it not a good test?

• 1:12:35Speaker 02

  It's not a good test, because there's a lot of inconsistency with it. And so, the majority of men, like the vast majority of men in my practice, who I've taken care of over the last 25 years, who have had an elevated PSA greater than four, has nothing to do with cancer. This is why it's a bad test. So, anyway, he, we do routine, I believe in blood work, that's different than screening per se. But I do routine blood work, and for our patients, we do a lot of blood work, depending on what they're working on. And he had a PSA, and it was elevated, higher than four. Okay, well, he was concerned, I get it. And so eventually, we did an MRI of his pelvis, to look at his prostate. Nothing

• 1:13:19Speaker 02

  there. Maybe his prostate was enlarged. So the PSA can elevate from an enlarged prostate. The PSA can elevate from a prostate infection, lots of other things. So, we repeated the blood test over time, totally fine. So last week, he sends me that he did a full-body MRI. And that full-body MRI is not very, it's not, the visualization's way worse than a dedicated MRI, if that makes sense. So the image quality is way worse.

• 1:13:49Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 1:13:49Speaker 02

  So he did a full-body MRI, and he sent it to me, and said, I need to talk, because they see something in my prostate. Now, six months ago, he did a dedicated MRI of his pelvis, nothing. So, again, we're going to have to repeat that now. He's going to have to have a dedicated MRI of his pelvis. I'm confident that maybe his anatomy is a little bit different. Maybe his prostate's a little bit enlarged. But I don't think he has prostate cancer. But what he's created for himself is a lot of anxiety.

• 1:14:16Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 1:14:18Speaker 02

  And it's a slippery slope. When you've got that anxiety, what do people do? Well, now they're drinking more. Now they're taking, you know, whatever it is. Now they need more benzos. It's a slipper, that anxiety and that stress, that'll wear you out.

• 1:14:38Shawn Ryan?

  What do you recommend if somebody gets diagnosed with cancer? This is one of your patients. Do you have places that you recommend to them?

• 1:14:45Speaker 02

  I do.

• 1:14:46Shawn Ryan?

  Are they in the US?

• 1:14:47Speaker 02

  Uh, no. The, the number one place I, there's a couple of things, is, I just met a patient, and his wife is dealing with non-small cell lung cancer, which is aggressive. She's doing okay. She's in the conventional, I'll just tell you what I told him, I'm going to meet with her when I get back next week. There's a place that I learned of in Thailand, called the Bangkok Stem Cell Center, where they're able to do things that we can't do in this country. For example, I have a friend who lives in Bali, who introduced me to them.

• 1:15:18Speaker 02

  And he was introduced, and, sorry, last year, he got diagnosed with this very rare type of fibrosarcoma. Just like a connective tissue, soft tissue type of cancer, super rare, but it can tend, historically, to metastasize or grow. He had the biopsy, saw that he had it, so he went to this place, and they measured something called natural killer cells in his blood. Now, the natural killer cells seem to be the, the type of white blood cell that attacks the cancer in the blood. This is an oversimplification. So when they tested his natural killer cells, they were really weak. And they were saying, I'm going to make this up, less than 5% kill rate. Again, I'm messing up the details. So they were able to do some things to amplify how those natural killer cells grow. They retest

• 1:16:03Speaker 02

  them. Now he's greater than 60%. And then they're giving him back his natural killer cells.

• 1:16:09Shawn Ryan?

  As an infusion into his body.

• 1:16:10Speaker 02

  To fight the cancer.

• 1:16:11Shawn Ryan?

  Correct. And it worked?

• 1:16:13Speaker 02

  It's working.

• 1:16:14Shawn Ryan?

  Wow.

• 1:16:16Speaker 02

  And that's just one example.

• 1:16:19Speaker 02

  The other thing I tell people to do, when I told this patient, and this is getting confusing. You brought up water, and I'm again, not the expert. But people are familiar with hydrogen. Hydrogen is the first element in the periodic table, right? It's got one electron, one proton. Hydrogen, over time, morphs into something called heavy water, which has, we call it deuterium. One electron, one proton, one neutron. Now, the problem with deuterium is that it's a little bit heavier. And so our bodies and our cells can't use it as efficiently. I know we're going to get into the mitochondria. This might be a good time.

• 1:17:02Speaker 02

  Mitochondria, the body, you know, the batteries of the cell. When you're might, we know that people stressing themselves out, working, you know, late hours, out of sync with natural world. We get tired. As we get older, we get tired more and more. We don't have that energy to do all the things we want to do. A lot of that academic research comes back to the mitochondria not working well. The mitochondria take our fuel, things we eat, fats, proteins, carbohydrates. And through a series of steps, turns it into energy, water. By the way, it's deuterium depleted water. I'll get back to that and oxygen. And the main way this works, and why I want to talk about it is there's five hubs that sit on this mitochondrial membrane. We call them five hubs. They call them cytochromes.

• 1:17:44Speaker 02

  The first hub is where NAD is used. NAD is a chemical cousin of niacin, so a chemical cousin of vitamin B3. And what the mitochondrial membrane is supposed to do is we're supposed to exchange electrons for protons down these different hubs. So you can just think of it like a conveyor belt. And so we're moving these electrons and protons to eventually get to hub five, where we spin this wheel to make ATP, oxygen and water. Again, oversimplification. Hub one is where NAD operates. And this is where I think most people get stuck. I think this is where we form a traffic jam. And so that exchange of electrons, protons slows, just like if people are familiar with

• 1:18:27Speaker 02

  the traffic jam, you get stuck in traffic, can't go anywhere. So we can't make as much energy. This is very real. This is why I'm a big believer in NAD therapy. You know, I think I've overseen more NAD treatments than anyone on the planet. We got into it, you know, 12, 14 years ago, before it was popular or anything. Very impressed with how NAD works. Very impressed. Doesn't work for everybody. There's a lot of holes. We can't measure NAD levels. But clinically observing people who, before they start NAD to after they go through NAD treatments, it's transformational for most people. Interesting. Yeah. And so that's part of that mitochondria. That's, that's hub one.

• 1:19:08Speaker 02

  Hub two has to do with something called viboflavin succinic acid. Hub three is where that CoQ10 I talked about is utilized. Hub four is also called cytochrome C oxidase is where methylene blue can bind. Methylene blue, basically, if, which has become super popular. People can take methylene blue and basically jumpstart their mitochondria because we can jump over these other hubs. So we can get these, again, conveyor belt work. This is that stuff you, I think you injected it in me. Yeah, you took it as an IV. Yeah. And people eat it too. You can take it orally. People take it under the tongue, turns their mouth blue. Yeah, that's that methylene blue stuff. Fascinating compound. You show, I think you showed me my cells under a microscope after that.

• 1:19:53Speaker 02

  We did live blood analysis. Yeah, good memory. Yeah. Yeah. And so what is it doing? So, so it's basically allowing for more efficient transmission of electrons for protons, so you can turn that wheel. That last wheel is what's important. So you're making more energy, right? Because that energy is stored in this ATP molecule. Adenosine triphosphate. And we want more of that. Because that is the potential to have energy to go in your nervous system, help you think a thought, help you move, help you throw a ball, help you shoot a gun, whatever you want to do, help you train, right? You need ATP. You also need water. You know, the, the largest substance in our body is water. And you need oxygen, right? To, to live your life and.

• 1:20:38Speaker 02

  So, I mean, you showed me, when I went there, you showed, I think there was a, I think there was a before and after comparison of what the cells look like before you gave it to me. Yep. What they look like after. We did. How long does that last? Probably not, I don't know per se, because we haven't tested it out kind of longitudinally. And what we're talking about for your listeners is live blood analysis, right? As opposed to drawing your blood from your veins, sending it to a lab. And then days later, that blood is tested for a volume of a hormone or a cholesterol level. We're looking in real time. We prick your finger, we put your blood on a slide and look at that slide under the microscope. And we can see how your red blood cells are moving, how your white blood cells are aggregating or congregating.

• 1:21:22Speaker 02

  And what we've seen over and over and over, and while you remember it, is before people do treatments like this, it tends to move very slowly and be kind of sludgy. This is representative, this is what's happening in your bloodstream. And then you do a treatment like methylene blue, and you look under the same microscope hour later, and now the red blood cells are moving. They're cruising along. It's fascinating. It's fascinating. So what is it doing? Well, there's an electrical charge. And again, this is over my pay grade. But that methylene blue is helping the electrical components of the cell and helping us make more ATP, also more water and more oxygen. So should we be taking that every day? I don't know if you need it every day, but you know, a couple of times a week is

• 1:22:07Speaker 02

  probably a good thing. Yeah. Couple of times a week. It's, it tends to be long acting. Again, it's gotten very popular. People are talking about it. People can take it every day, but I don't think you need to. I think it, you know, again, for me, it's least effective a dose for the maximal result. I think we want to be reasonable about it. But yeah, I think it's a, I think it's fabulous for the mitochondria. Also seems to be a great cognitive enhancer. So methylene blue can, what's called a mild MAI inhibitor. So it keeps your dopamine and serotonin in your nervous system a little bit longer. So people report back and say they're a little bit sharper. And then we talked about a little bit earlier, kind of repurposing drugs in terms of cancer therapy.

• 1:22:50Speaker 02

  I think methylene blue is utilized in that scenario as well. So it's versatile. Yeah, yeah, for sure. I can keep talking about the mitochondria. I can talk about this deuterium if you want. Sure. Yeah, go back to the deuterium. So again, you asked me, what, what would I tell people or what I do of cancer, right? Go to that place in Thailand if I could. And then I'd work on the water. Water, we talked about, you know, you have to filter it, you have to re-mineralize it. But water, over time, becomes heavy water. That's just from being on the earth. It's by no fault of anyone's. It's been shown. So I'm going to make up numbers here, but most people have a deuterium level of about

• 1:23:34Speaker 02

  150 parts per million. Okay? There was many, many years ago, they found a group, we talked about, you know, the, the blue zones. They found a group of people living in Siberia region, no cancer. And when they measured. Zero. Zero. Their deuterium levels were in the eighties. And what is deuterium? So deuterium is hydrogen that's morphed into essentially heavy hydrogen. So it's got now one electron, one proton, one neutron. Whereas hydrogen itself just has one electron, one proton. So there's going to be, we're going to see more and more talk about this because I think it matters.

• 1:24:17Speaker 02

  How do you deplete your deuterium levels? Okay? Does that make sense? Because, because if you just eat the regular food you're eating, you're not going to do it. If you just drink the regular water you're doing, you can't do it. So there's one way to do it. Well, there's multiple ways, but the most practical way is you actually have to drink something called deuterium depleted water. So it's a fancy and complicated process where they're taking that deuterium and removing it from the water. Okay. So as opposed to being 150 parts per million, you can get it down to five. So if you consume, one consumes deuterium depleted water over and over and over and over again, over time, they're going to deplete their deuterium.

• 1:25:00Speaker 02

  Now, there's a lot of work to be done. But it resonates to me that if, if one has cancer, that's the perfect scenario for one working to deplete, deplete their deuterium. Because based off that cohort of those people living in some Siberia region where there was no cancer and their deuterium levels were way lower than the average person. So the idea is, oversimplification, water is the most abundant compound in our body, right? I think everyone's familiar with that. Most of it's, you know, the, the, the stuff we make by our mitochondria is deuterium depleted.

• 1:25:45Speaker 02

  That's the best kind. The stuff that's around our cells has a lot of deuterium. If we can convert and make, get to lower deuterium levels, it makes it easier to use for our body. And again, I'm not an expert on this. This is an oversimplification. But I, if I'm your listener, I'd look into it. So we, we need hydrogenated water. You need deuterium depleted water. But isn't that the one and the same? They're similar, but, but they're not the same. Deuterium is a, is a kind of isotope of hydrogen. So how do you get deuterium depleted water? There's a couple of companies worldwide who make it. It's expensive. You have to order it? You do. It's not like a filter or something you can put under your sink?

• 1:26:28Speaker 02

  There, and I, I know the guys who started the company in America, they don't make it here. It's too expensive. It's called Drink Lite Water, L I T E water. So drink L I T E water. That's where people can order it. It's expensive. Going to get very expensive if that's the only water you drink. So I don't think that that's practical for most people. If you had cancer though, that would be something that's very high on the list of what I would recommend and do. I would try to get your deuterium level as low as possible. What do you think about hydrogenated water? Is it, is it a gimmick? Is it real? I don't think it's gimmick. I think that better is hydrogenated gas you breathe.

• 1:27:09Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 1:27:09Speaker 02

  Yeah. And so different devices make different things. The problem with water is complicated, right? So I think that the hydrogen water is not going to move the needle much, right? This is even like, we saw this with alkaline water, right? People say if it's alkaline, is it alkalizing? Meaning, does it make your water, you know, we're talking about pH scale, right? And they're talking about acid and alkaline. And people thought, well, if I drink more alkaline water, I'll become more alkaline because cancer grows in an acid environment. That's not totally true. Same thing with hydrogen-rich water. One of the things I got for our new office, though, is we're going to have, you know, hydrogen generators. While people are doing IVs and stuff, different treatments, they're going to be breathing in hydrogen gas. Because I think that makes more sense.

• 1:27:54Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 1:27:56Speaker 02

  Complicated. Lots of different tools here.

• 1:27:59Shawn Ryan?

  Sounds like it.

• 1:27:59Speaker 02

  I know. I know.

• 1:28:01Shawn Ryan?

  You know, you, just a little earlier, you had mentioned people coming in with 40, 50 supplements.

• 1:28:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:28:07Shawn Ryan?

  Taking 40, 50 supplements. And that we don't need that, but then, but we're also talking about all the nutrition that's been depleted out of the

• 1:28:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:28:16Shawn Ryan?

  fruits and vegetables. So how are we supposed to replace that if we're not doing all these supplements?

• 1:28:21Speaker 02

  So we like to test. Right? And so, again, if people need it, I'm not against it. I'm in favor of whatever works. I just think that the paradigm, and I get it, people listen to a podcast, and then they buy three things based on it, and they add, and they're never subtracting. And so their medicine cabinet grows to these, now they're just taking, and they don't know why they're taking it. So if you're taking it for a particular reason, great, right? You have a goal, great. But most people aren't, they've gotten over the goal, right? Whether they're tired, whether they're low mood, whether they want to lose weight, they have pain. I'm not saying don't take the supplements. I think, because you're right, they can be valuable tools. But if you're just taking blindly, and you just add it, and you've amassed now all these supplements, you don't even know

• 1:29:05Speaker 02

  what they're doing. Just because they're natural and safe doesn't make them effective by any means. And so I'm a big favor of doing this for the long term. You know, making it reasonable for people. And I think there's some things that we should focus on. And then, again, my view, lens of the world is, it's not destination-based, it's directional change. Meaning, oh, now you sprained your knee. Now you've, you know, now we got to work on the knee. Now you want to be a better golfer. Now we got to work on that. Now you have a test coming up, you're a student, you want to be a better focuser. There's lots of things we can do in a goal-directed manner, which are great. But then, once you get to the goal, I think you probably back off them. You know, you don't need to keep amassing them. And that's what people tend to do. That's just my observation.

• 1:29:51Shawn Ryan?

  Was there anything left on the mitochondria we needed to cover?

• 1:29:55Speaker 02

  Mitochondria? Yeah, I mean, the mitochondria, I, so for me, I tie in the mitochondria, I think of, again, simplification just helps me of energy, right? I think what most people are looking for is energy. And I talk to people, what is the number one thing they want? More energy, right? People are tired now. People are stressed out. People wake up, they don't feel good. They have to caffeinate, stimulate. People get a second wind, so now they don't sleep. People can't turn on the energy. I think of like, a little child, right? They can turn off and on that energy at will. I think that's the goal, right? It's not just having energy, it's having energy when you want it, when you need it. And I think it's fascinating. And so I, to me, there are seven different energy circuits, essentially, right? The mitochondria are one of them. We can talk about the others, but the mitochondria

• 1:30:40Speaker 02

  are powerful, and it's like the cellular circuitry. And, and, you know, it's very real for people, when, you know, we give them mitochondrial enhancing nutrients, like NAD, like methylene blue, like CoQ10, and watch what happens. I'm a strict clinician. I'm not an academic. And I have the fortune of being able to observe people who do these therapies, and take these certain nutrients. And it's a game changer for a lot of them. You know, we talked about before, you know, you had Pete Scobell on, right? Great, amazing

• 1:31:19Speaker 02

  podcast. Amazing. Great American. I got to know Pete like a decade ago. And he stands out my mind. When I got to know him, he was complaining that he couldn't read, his eyes would go all over the place, chronic daily headaches, and he was depressed. And he'd been through the VA system, left and right, upside down. They weren't helping him. You're more familiar with this than I am. Working with a lot of veterans. And so, he was living in Aspen at the time, went out to Aspen, and we gave him NAD IV. And again, this is like, 2016. This before it was any bit popular. After two treatments, Pete's symptoms were gone.

• 1:31:58Shawn Ryan?

  After two treatments?

• 1:31:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:31:59Shawn Ryan?

  Wow.

• 1:32:01Speaker 02

  And maybe you talked to him about it, he'd still say it was an impactful part of his life. And I still work with Pete. And it's, and that is indicative of how other people respond to NAD. And that's when the mitochondria has been damaged, or, you know, he told me he was blown up 50-plus time, he had 50-plus traumatic brain injuries, right? NAD works first, you know, on the nervous system. And if your nervous system's in disarray and been harmed by blasts, we get energy into that nervous system, it can start to heal.

• 1:32:34Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 1:32:36Speaker 02

  So, yeah, I mean, the mitochondria is very well studied from an academic perspective. I think it's part of how people, you know, whether it's taking NAD, or these NAD precursors, I find NAD itself to be the best. Again, that's just my experience overseeing tons and tons and tons and tons of NAD treatments. Now we have methylene blue, and then there's certain mitochondrial nutrients.

• 1:33:03Shawn Ryan?

  What are the three keys?

• 1:33:06Speaker 02

  The three keys? So this is what I think of as like, the three paradoxes, right? That this is just my take on it, from working with people and fascinated with human health and progress. The first is, energy comes from rest. That's number one. And I think, you know, we live in a time where people beat themselves up, you know, workouts become a chore, we have to put our foot on the gas more and more and more. And people don't value downtime and recovery time. So that's the first. The second is, symptoms are signals. The conventional medicine, modern medicine says, if you've got this, something's wrong.

• 1:33:49Speaker 02

  I'd look at it and say, actually, that's your body healing, right? You've got knee pain, you got a headache, you got fatigue, you're out of alignment. So we need to honor those signals and understand them, as opposed to giving you Band-Aids. I mean, Band-Aids are appropriate every now and then. Let's figure it out, to get to the root cause. The last is, strength comes from coherence. Right? And the way I think about this, I just read this, I didn't come up with this. If you were to hold water in your hand, and you squeeze it, what happens?

• 1:34:20Shawn Ryan?

  Goes between your fingers.

• 1:34:21Speaker 02

  What happens if you hold it with your open palm? It stays. Right? So we become more still and more coherent. Think about your body. Like, we already talked about water is the most dominant substance in the body. If you're squeezing and tight and under stress all the time, you're not very fluid. If you're not very fluid, you know, and you know this better than I from your training, like, working with people, it's not just about having big biceps. It's about how can you be coherent? So those, I think, are the three keys.

• 1:34:55Shawn Ryan?

  Let's take a quick break.

• 1:34:59Shawn Ryan?

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• 1:36:23Shawn Ryan?

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• 1:36:45Shawn Ryan?

  All right, Doc, we're back from the break. So, uh, I just went and looked up the light water.

• 1:36:51Speaker 02

  Expensive, right?

• 1:36:51Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah. I, I just, but I ordered it.

• 1:36:54Speaker 02

  But it's worth trying.

• 1:36:55Shawn Ryan?

  It is expensive.

• 1:36:57Speaker 02

  It is expensive, but like we were just saying, I think it tastes like the cleanest water you've ever had.

• 1:37:03Shawn Ryan?

  Wow.

• 1:37:04Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, there's something to it. It's expensive water, but

• 1:37:08Speaker 02

  I'd like people to try stuff, you know? I, I think that it's, you just don't know what'll click.

• 1:37:12Shawn Ryan?

  Do they expect, do they expect people to drink this all the time?

• 1:37:16Speaker 02

  Again, it depends, right? So like we were talking about in the context of you've got active cancer. I don't know of another way. What they say is a, a higher saturated fat diet has the least amount of deuterium. But I think that takes a while, right? So if you've got, and, and the guys I know who started the company, one's named, uh, Robert, the other's Victor, they would say you, if you've got active cancer, you don't necessarily want to lower it too quickly because you could have a tumor crisis is what's called like a, a tumor if it, it can kind of lice and, and I don't want to say explode, but implode. And, and that can cause some problems. You can get blood clots, things like that. So you, you want to do it in a gradual way. But the idea is if you've got cancer,

• 1:37:59Speaker 02

  I don't know of a more practical thing one can do than to lower their deuterium.

• 1:38:03Shawn Ryan?

  Wow.

• 1:38:04Speaker 02

  Knowing what I know, I mean, there's lots of protocols, supplements, people talking about baking soda, green tea extract. I mean, on and on and on, removing toxicity, stopped using a microwave, you know, only using stainless steel or glass to cook, things like that. To remove toxicity. I'm talking about very basic stuff.

• 1:38:21Shawn Ryan?

  They, they need to be teaching this shit in school. But I went down, I just watched this documentary. I'm actually going to try to get this woman on.

• 1:38:29Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:38:29Shawn Ryan?

  And she was talking about the fertility crisis because of the microplastics. Have you seen this?

• 1:38:34Speaker 02

  I haven't seen it, but I, I, you know, it's, it's interesting topic because it's become normal for couples to jump right into in vitro fertilization. This is all new.

• 1:38:44Shawn Ryan?

  That's kind, that's what, this is all new. She brought on, and I know it's a small sample size and she says that in the documentary, but

• 1:38:53Shawn Ryan?

  she brings on, I believe it's six couples who are trying to get pregnant, young couples. One of them had been trying to get pregnant for 10 years. And she brings these people in and, and, I mean, I'm not a doctor. I don't know the tests, but she tests them, you know, just to see. Uh, she tests the sperm count in each one of the males and then she tests the, I don't know, the microplastics.

• 1:39:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:39:19Shawn Ryan?

  And I guess she can test for those. How many microplastics each one of them have it. And so she, she does a test and then they go through and she's there for 90 days. And they go through and they just wipe out everybody's, you know, what are you wearing? What are you drinking? What are you cooking your food in? What are you buying your food in? You know, how, basically like, how, what are you drinking your water out of? What do you, you know, all this shit? And it's, it's like everything we have, everything.

• 1:39:53Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 1:39:53Shawn Ryan?

  Is, I didn't realize, I guess skin absorbs 40% of everything you put on it.

• 1:39:59Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, it depends. I don't, I've heard different statistics, but yeah.

• 1:40:02Shawn Ryan?

  Anyways.

• 1:40:03Speaker 02

  I mean, think about.

• 1:40:04Shawn Ryan?

  She, she does this thing for these people, you know, and, and then, and then, you know, they do like the revamp. Like, all right, now you're going to buy berries from this place, do this and that and the other thing.

• 1:40:15Shawn Ryan?

  I think every one of these couples got pregnant after the 90 days.

• 1:40:19Speaker 02

  I mean, it's, again, you said they should teach this in school, but no, that's not the goal. Sean, you know that.

• 1:40:24Shawn Ryan?

  Cutting boards.

• 1:40:25Speaker 02

  No, I know.

• 1:40:26Shawn Ryan?

  Everything.

• 1:40:26Speaker 02

  I know, but the goal is to keep people as customers. Right? Keep us, our, our energies dim. So we keep coming back to the trough for more medicines, more testing. And then more diseases.

• 1:40:41Speaker 02

  And I, and we've normalized it. We've completely normalized chronic disease. And think that this is, I don't think it's a normal at all. I don't think that's how people lived. I don't think it's supposed to, we're supposed to be vital, strong,

• 1:40:54Speaker 02

  immersed. I always think of like children who are fascinating because children don't know what temperature it is, what time it is. They are absolutely immersed in what they're doing. You know, you say to a kid, come back before dark. They don't know what before dark is. You know, but we can't do that as adults. We can't be present.

• 1:41:14Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah. Yeah, I know you're right.

• 1:41:18Shawn Ryan?

  So I like to live out in the woods.

• 1:41:20Speaker 02

  I don't, I mean, I think that's such a healthy choice. I think it's awesome of you. And they've shown, I mean, you can speed up and go to the technology side of being in the forest in the woods is very healing.

• 1:41:33Speaker 02

  Just being out in nature is very healing.

• 1:41:37Speaker 02

  I tell people, cause I, we talked about a little bit earlier about circadian rhythm and kind of how people handle cortisol and the fastest way I tell people, if you want to get yourself back in sync, go camping for three days. Don't take your phone or leave it in the car or whatever. Don't check it and sleep on the earth. You will get back in sync. Your body knows.

• 1:42:01Shawn Ryan?

  Interesting.

• 1:42:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. We've gotten so disconnected. And again, I'm not advocating people want to go do that full time. Great. I think most of us are looking for mitigation strategies.

• 1:42:10Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:10Speaker 02

  Yeah. You know, like, how can we have a little bit of both? That's fine.

• 1:42:15Shawn Ryan?

  Let's talk about protocols.

• 1:42:18Speaker 02

  Yeah. Start with peptides.

• 1:42:20Shawn Ryan?

  Perfect. Here we go.

• 1:42:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, peptides, right? 2025 became the year of the peptide. You know, I've, I've been fortunate. I think, you know, I don't know the number, but I've probably overseen more peptide treatments than anyone probably in this country, maybe on the planet. I've been in the right place at the right time.

• 1:42:36Shawn Ryan?

  When I researched you on, uh, anthropics cloud, it, it says you are the godfather of peptides.

• 1:42:42Speaker 02

  Right. Well, good.

• 1:42:45Speaker 02

  We'll leave it at that, but, um, I, you know, to be really on the very, very elemental level, peptides are chains of amino acids. We call it a peptide if it's 40 amino acids in length or shorter, called a protein. If it's 41 amino acids in length or longer. By definitions, these are small molecules. They're signaling molecules. And I've been super impressed with peptides. Because they're very, very safe, you know? And to me, it's always got to be safety first. And so I think of them to make a distinction for people. I think of peptides as like whispering to your cells. And pharmaceutical is like a sledgehammer. Yeah. And it's just a good analogy. And so sledgehammers, we're going to take the same dose, give it the same everyone, we're going to have side effects, but

• 1:43:29Speaker 02

  by golly, you're going to feel something and, and peptides are working with your biology. You know, signaling. So there's lots of different categories of peptides. There's the growth hormone releasing peptides, things like ipamorol and tesamorelin, um, sermorelin. And these, by and large, all the peptides we're talking about are injected. So they're injected under the skin. In the case of the growth hormone releasing peptides, travel up to the part of the brain that releases growth hormone, binds the growth hormone receptor and puts out some growth hormone. Well, as we know, as people get older, stress out their bodies, we put out less growth hormone. Growth hormone is an anabolic hormone like testosterone.

• 1:44:08Speaker 02

  And it's in charge of helping us mend, heal, recover, rejuvenate our cells, our tissues. That's why it's banned in professional sports. Right? If you're a pitcher and you injure your elbow, you want to be back in two weeks, not two months. Well, growth hormone will do that.

• 1:44:24Speaker 02

  And so, um, I still use a lot of growth hormone with, when appropriate with my patients. But we've replaced a lot of that with these peptides. Because it gets you most of the way there. And it's working with your own biology. It's giving you a push. So that's a big category. Another big category is the anti-inflammatory peptides like BPC 157.

• 1:44:44Shawn Ryan?

  That's the one I was talking about earlier.

• 1:44:47Speaker 02

  Yeah. The one that you said you'd think. Yeah. We have you on a combination of which includes the BPC.

• 1:44:53Shawn Ryan?

  It's, it's, I have torn rotator cuff. I don't know what's going on with the other shoulder, but.

• 1:44:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:44:58Shawn Ryan?

  Usually I can't lift my shoulder over 90 degrees. And I think I was on that for me, I don't know, two weeks, maybe a month.

• 1:45:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:45:04Shawn Ryan?

  And full rotation.

• 1:45:06Speaker 02

  Yeah. And that's your experience.

• 1:45:08Shawn Ryan?

  So what is it doing?

• 1:45:09Speaker 02

  Yeah. It's very anti-inflammatory to the soft tissue. So the tendons and ligaments, you know? It's, it comes from again, our kind of our stomach juices. This, this particular peptide stands for body protection compound. So your experience is what a lot of people experience with BPC. Lot of people experience. I had a patient in the office this week.

• 1:45:32Speaker 02

  And he plays guitar and does a lot of yard work and he messed up his forearm. And we actually gave him intravenous BPC. Could we use some of these peptides intravenously? And he said he had two treatments and he said, I'm, I'm a hundred percent better.

• 1:45:45Shawn Ryan?

  So does it go away?

• 1:45:47Speaker 02

  It heals, right? So I think a lot of it with the inflammation is you're getting, like we talked about earlier, you're getting aggregation of inflammatory cells, you know, that sit in the tissue, sit in the extracellular space and they may hit nerves, right? They may cause nerve irritation, which is then sending a signal to your brain, pain. Um, and what they do is they help facilitate the removal of these inflammatory cytokines and this cascade. So that you don't have it aggregated there. So it's actually healing it. Now, the challenge is, is for people, is, once you're healed, don't reinjure. Right? And people have a hard time, you know, my patients tend to be the peak performers of the world. Right? They don't want to take any time off. And that's a challenge. And I get it.

• 1:46:30Speaker 02

  And so, as we get older, we're in this degenerative state, you know? We're very focused on lifting weights and getting strong, but we also get tight. We get firm. What tends to happen to people is, well, firm breaks. That's just a reality. So I think, including peptides, you could argue that one who works out a lot should be on BPC 157.

• 1:46:53Speaker 02

  You know, and we were talking about earlier, interesting day, because today and tomorrow is the day the FDA is discussing if these peptides will still be allowed to be compounded. Compounded means made by a pharmacy. And that's how we do it. We don't use any research chemicals. They're all individually made. They're all the best sourcing, highest potency. They're all tested, analyzed, made by pharmacies who are FDA registered, state board, you know, inspected. Best of the best. We do it all the best way. What happened a couple of years ago is the FDA removed them. They said they can't be compounded anymore. This is why these gray market of peptide took off.

• 1:47:33Speaker 02

  So people can go online and get their own peptides with no oversight from sources that are, you know, probably contaminated or illegitimate. I'm not saying they're all bad. That's not the way it works.

• 1:47:46Speaker 02

  But there, we don't have any oversight. When they're, when we're allowed to use them, like, hopefully, we will be able to, you know, then, and we can now, and hopefully, that continues.

• 1:47:58Speaker 02

  Well, then, we can continue to compound them in a very safe manner. And that's what I'm looking for.

• 1:48:01Shawn Ryan?

  What's their argument?

• 1:48:04Speaker 02

  Their argument, I do understand it, right? Their argument is that the compound didn't go through the FDA approval process. Right? So if we look at drugs, pharmaceuticals, lot of money, lot of research, following the hoops that the FDA wants you to jump through, including safety studies, and certainly, you know, testing on people and looking at, you know, what goes wrong, what goes right. We don't have that for these compounds.

• 1:48:26Shawn Ryan?

  Lots of things aren't.

• 1:48:28Speaker 02

  But to your point.

• 1:48:28Shawn Ryan?

  Or by the FDA.

• 1:48:30Speaker 02

  Exactly. Now, the challenging part with this is they sit in a gray area because they're, most of them are injected. Right? If we take something like a nutritional supplement, like vitamin C, never FDA approved, on the counter, you can get vitamin C, take as much or as little as you want. Well, people would argue, well, that's because you take it orally, like, it's very, very safe. Now, what I would argue, and I've actually spoken to people in the Trump administration about this a little while ago, and maybe a year ago, is, I think we need to evolve where we are, how the FDA works. Right? My argument to them was, what we saw with the COVID vaccine was that the FDA was going to expedite pushing through a vaccine that was never tested. We know that's true now. It was never tested, it was a big experiment.

• 1:49:15Speaker 02

  The testing came after it was released, not before, using these mRNA, whatever you want to call them. That was the testing. Right? It wasn't that they were tested beforehand and said, oh, they were tested while we used them. That's a big problem. But since they're able to do that, and now a lot of that's become the norm, right? These pharmaceutical companies are seeking fast approval process, based on something like the COVID vaccine, saying there's such a need and such an urgency. People can argue that. What I said to them, I think there also needs to be a place for compounds to be evaluated, which have proven to be very safe.

• 1:49:50Speaker 02

  I don't think that's happening. Right? Again, I've just seen, again, I think that, I don't think people at the FDA are out to harm us. I don't think pharmaceutical companies are out to harm us, but it's a business.

• 1:50:00Shawn Ryan?

  That's, I mean, I think.

• 1:50:02Speaker 02

  It's a business.

• 1:50:03Shawn Ryan?

  It's pretty much been established. I mean.

• 1:50:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:50:07Shawn Ryan?

  We need a lobbying firm.

• 1:50:09Speaker 02

  I don't know. So, so my hope is, today and tomorrow, they meet and they say, hey, it seems safe. We're not hearing of, you know, adverse reactions, which there aren't. We're not hearing of, you know, I want to remind people, minimal, minimal, 7,000 deaths a year from medicines. That's just the lowest number possible. At least 200,000 adverse reactions that are reported a year from just medicines being prescribed. These are big numbers. So, this happens every day with a pharmaceutical, yet there's so many pharmaceuticals that they're still, you know, yet peptides?

• 1:50:53Speaker 02

  Because they don't fit into this category or that, we have to be, can't use?

• 1:50:57Shawn Ryan?

  I mean, there is a narrative out there. I've had somebody on the show that actually brought it up, that said that they think that the use of peptides will create an uptick in the, in cancer. Is there any truth to that?

• 1:51:11Speaker 02

  I, I don't think so at all. No, that doesn't resonate with me. And I, I think, the, the challenge is this, is, and this is just my observation, we have a lot of people reading about what a peptide does. And then, from my perspective, I see what it does to people clinically. I am biased, I'm going to be on the clinical side. I take care of a lot of people over the years, and we're talking 10 plus years of using peptides. Is it perfect? No. Has I ever seen cancer develop? No. You know, and we're talking big numbers of people now. Have I seen blood clots, heart, no, none of it. Have I seen a rash from an injection? Sure. Have I seen it not work? Sure.

• 1:51:54Speaker 02

  And I know what they're talking about with BPC causing angiogenesis. But the count, that's where you develop new blood vessels. For, for cancer, they'd say, oh, well, the cancer, which is now developing new blood vessel, has a blood supply, so it's going to feed on its own. Right? And the BPC could be making that worse. That's one theoretical. Two, I could argue that's a really healthy thing with heart disease. Right? And this happens already naturally. If someone's got an artery that's feeding their heart muscle, and it's becoming full of plaque, the body is intelligent enough to make new blood vessels to fulfill where those, you know, those tissues need to be supplied by oxygen. That's angiogenesis too. You see what I'm saying?

• 1:52:38Speaker 02

  So, I don't know. Right? And so, some people would come at this, like we've been talking about, and say, well, we need to do longitudinal study. That's probably a good thing. Right? But you have to do it clinically. And the trouble with doing clinically, we've touched upon this, unless we're doing some sort of live, real time analysis, how do we really know? Right? And, and it gets tricky, and it's hard to do, and it's, and it's harder to do than I think we've been led to believe. I'm all in favor of learning, but I'm not in favor of dismissing anecdotal data as BS because it's, doesn't count, because it wasn't done by a proper study. I'm just not. Because my experience is the anecdotal data, data is super valuable.

• 1:53:22Speaker 02

  I'm interested in people sitting in front of me.

• 1:53:25Shawn Ryan?

  What, what are some of the things that you would use peptides for?

• 1:53:29Speaker 02

  So there's peptides for inflammation, right? So, BPC 157, TB 500, they have these weird names, KPV, GHK-CU, which is GHK copper. All of these are very anti-inflammatory. Right? So they're promoting anti-inflammatory mechanisms, not pro-inflammatory mechanisms. There's peptides for the nervous system. One called Cmax, which was developed in Russia many decades ago, to help people who've had a stroke, people who've had a traumatic brain injury. Cmax and its cousin, Solank, Solank taps into the GABA system, which is our calming system. That's the same receptors that alcohol and benzos tap into. Well, Solank is very calming for some people. In fact, the combination of Cmax and Solank is like a natural Adderall.

• 1:54:15Speaker 02

  And so, we make that into a nasal spray. I have a lot of patients who try that because, you know, I like the nasal spray because it's kind of a quick hit to the nervous system, and they can re-dose it. I'm not going to say it's perfect, and certainly not for everybody. But, you know, one of my problems with mainstream medicine is that a lot of doctors act like gatekeepers, like, no, you can't do it. Why should it be up to them? Like, if it's safe, why can't the patient try? I'm a big believer, let people try and explore, as long as we're doing it safely. And from my perspective, I have more experience with stuff than most.

• 1:54:47Speaker 02

  We're going to start there. Right? We're going to start, as a reference point, I only want, want you to try it if it's safe. We're never going to recommend things that are out of bounds, ever. And I recognize that doctors don't know either. Right? We train a lot of doctors. They're interested in learning, but to your point, we need to teach this stuff? That's not coming from conventional medical education. That's not part of their model. So, I want to help these providers, these physicians, learn how to use these tools. So, other peptides good for the nervous system, Cmax, Solank, Cerebrolysin. We've had great success, Cerebrolysin's this neuro peptide, patients who've had a stroke. You know, my nurse practitioner, her dad had a stroke.

• 1:55:31Speaker 02

  He did so well using Cerebrolysin, just subcutaneously injecting himself. She said he made such an amazing recovery. And she used to work in a kind of stroke rehab center. So she has a lot of experience with it. So, Cerebrolysin's another one that we can use. There's mitochondrial peptides, peptides like Mott C, which I think of as the stronger, fitter, faster peptide, helps with body composition and energy. Humanin, which is like the DNA repair peptide, one called SS-31, which, we talked about the mitochondria, we talked about where methylene blue binds on that fourth hub. Well, that's where SS-31 binds to help keep the shape and architecture of the mitochondria intact.

• 1:56:17Speaker 02

  So, again, it's challenging, lot of different peptides. How do we know what to use? Well, the way I do it is, I want to understand patients' motivation, understand their story, understand their goals. And then, we start. And then, I want feedback. How's it working? Are you experienced? Like, with you, my shoulder's feeling better, we're on the right track. I have more energy, I'm sleeping better. There's peptides for circadian rhythm, one called Epitalin. There's one called Penalon, which helps us release more melatonin. And I could go on and on, but I think you get the gist.

• 1:56:52Speaker 02

  What other type of protocols? Hormones are a big deal. I think, understanding, we touched upon this a little bit. As people age, I think the most tangible thing that happens is that their hormones decline. Right? And there's a lot of hormones. Hormones, by definition, are just messenger molecules. So we have adrenal hormones, cortisol, DHEA, pregnenolone. There's thyroid hormone, which works with, you know, metabolism. There's insulin is a signaling hormone that helps get, you know, glucose utilized. There's growth hormone, which is an anabolic hormone. Testosterone, another anabolic hormone, probably the biggest deal for men. There's estrogen, progesterone.

• 1:57:32Speaker 02

  You can see there's a lot. And so what we like to do is understand someone's where they are. And if clinically and in the lab, they're low or they're exhibiting signs of deficiencies, we may consider replacing those deficiencies with bio-identical hormones. So for men, testosterone is the first and obvious place to look. Most men don't realize that low testosterone in a man is the number one risk factor for heart disease, stroke, depression, and dementia. Is it really? Yeah, it's a big deal. Big deal. As well as if you look at the studies, clinical studies, men who replace their testosterone report a higher quality of life across the board. So again, the goal is not to manipulate.

• 1:58:16Speaker 02

  The goal is not to make your arms as big as your legs unless you are a bodybuilder. You want to do that. We never want to manipulate the hormones. We want to help you get back and you and we want to trial, you know, taking this hormone or those hormones and see how you feel, see how you respond. For most people, it's a very positive experience. The goal is never to make someone younger. I think that's a silly, silly goal. The goal is to help people feel their best so they can perform their best at any age. So what, what, what level T should somebody have? I mean, are you, are we shooting for? It's relative. What we had when we were 21? Some people say that. So here's how I look at it is, you know, we want to. Cause you go to the regular doctor and it's like, oh, you're great for your age. Yeah. So let's talk about that.

• 1:59:01Speaker 02

  What does that mean? I agree. So let's talk about where do reference ranges come from, right? Reference ranges come from what's in the population. And as we've talked about, the majority of people in the population, we're talking about adults, overweight, tired, depressed, and taking at this point, multiple pharmaceuticals. So just being in that range to me is mediocre. I don't want anyone to be mediocre. Life's too short to be mediocre. So when we're looking at the ranges, we want it to be on the upper end of the range. Right? And so it doesn't mean like, for example, testosterone range, most labs, normal is going to be somewhere between 200 and we'll say 1500. Some labs, it's more, some labs, it's less. It doesn't mean you have to be 1500 to feel your best, by no means.

• 1:59:42Speaker 02

  Again, it's exploration. Everyone's different. Everyone has different stories that they tell, the stories they experience, life that they live. So if we do a trial of testosterone, over time, we find, hey, I'm feeling great. And we draw their blood and it's 800, great. Doesn't mean we have to shoot for the moon. And it certainly doesn't mean we want to manipulate it and get super physiologic, you know? Because any kind of thing you do, the body is going to be other things that affects. When men take more testosterone, they're going to make more estrogen. Sometimes that's good, but if they're making too much estrogen, they feel bloated, swollen. They gain water weight. They get really emotional.

• 2:00:21Speaker 02

  Some of these hormones, I think of them like kids on a playground. Some of them like testosterone, testosterone is a fun, happy kid. Everyone wants more testosterone. Other hormones like cortisol or stress hormones, like the big bad bully. Too much cortisol, too little cortisol has a negative impact on the other hormones. In terms of testosterone though, because this is a great question. If we start and someone is low, I just want them to be higher associated with how they feel. Now, does that mean that if we measure and they say, hey, I'm, I think I could sleep better, that we can't try going a little higher? Sure, if it's appropriate. But I think there's an interesting book. It's called The Trouble With Testosterone. And it was written by this guy. He's a sociologist at Stanford called, his name's Robert Sapolsky.

• 2:01:06Speaker 02

  And he, and he studies baboons in the wild. He also wrote another book called Why Zebras Don't Get Ulcers. Fascinating guy. That talks about stress. But the trouble with testosterone, to summarize, is he found that in the baboon population, you have the alpha male with the highest level of testosterone. And then you have the number five in the pecking order with the lowest level of testosterone. No shit. Both of those have the shortest lifespan. Number one, number five had the shortest lifespan.

• 2:01:31Speaker 02

  The longest lifespan was number three, right in the middle. And his theory was, if you're number one, you're always trying to stay number one. That's very stressful. If you're number five, you're always trying to get to the top. That's very stressful. If you're number three, you're good, but you don't have to be too good.

• 2:01:48Speaker 02

  And I think that applies to, I think that applies to a lot of things in life. So to answer your question, I just want people to be in the, closer to the top, but based on how they feel. The more, more stuff we use, the more side effects we're going to have. So. Hormones, I think, talking about protocols, they're foundational, right? For a female, it's thyroid hormone. It used to be progesterone, it's a thyroid hormone. Low thyroid in women has become an epidemic. Most women in their 40s and 50s are going to have some thyroid problems. Not a pessimist, I'm just a realist. What do you think about GLP-1? Great question. I think by and large, they're a great tool.

• 2:02:28Speaker 02

  And I've seen this, right? I think we've been using semaglutide, tirzepatide for almost six years now. Maybe seven years. And I think they work. If I, if I am looking at a weight loss tool, I think it's the most reliable right now. Now, I think you have to use it judiciously. I think that helping people start at a low dose, take their time, go slowly. There's never urgency to me to lose weight. You know, I hear from people, I need to lose weight in a month. You know, I remember some of these supermodels I work with, hey, I'm doing a shoot in two weeks. Can we? Any season. Yeah, like can we get it? We gotta, we gotta have good expectations. But for most people, the vast majority of us, there's no urgency, right? We want to take our time. And the way they work is they are, it's a signaling molecule. So it's slowing down gastric emptying.

• 2:03:12Speaker 02

  So your food, as it goes through your stomach and your digestive tract is going to be slowed down. So you're going to feel full faster. As you feel full faster, you're not going to eat as much. If you don't eat as much, you're going to lose weight, but you're going to do so and you're not going to feel cranky. I think they can be very effective that way. I really do. And by and large, if we use them judiciously and take our time, we really don't see a lot of side effects. The trouble seemingly that we have now, and it's not really trouble, is

• 2:03:40Speaker 02

  people don't want to come off of them. And so people want to stay on them because they're like, I'm afraid I'm going to lose the weight back. And I understand that. And, and again, I think if we're using low dose or checking in and we're monitoring, we're probably good. What I'm starting to see is that higher dose, whatever that is, but higher dose, people are experiencing anhedonia. They're coming back and they don't find pleasure anymore. They don't enjoy sex. They don't want to drink, you know, coffee. Tequila doesn't taste good. They're just not as satisfied.

• 2:04:11Speaker 02

  And so I think it's showing that it doesn't just work on the food pathways. It's working on pleasure pathways.

• 2:04:18Speaker 02

  And it's going to be interesting to see how it plays out.

• 2:04:22Speaker 02

  But as a tool, I think they can be very effective. We've also learned that a lot of people with autoimmune disease and chronic inflammation can benefit from low dose, DLP-1s. So I'm a fan if used appropriately, you know, we monitor.

• 2:04:41Speaker 02

  I do have some people who overshoot, you know? I had a patient just a couple of months ago, I called her out and said, hey, I think this is, says, you're going too far, too fast, you know? You're, you're not looking healthy. You're, you've lost weight. I get it, but we gotta dial that back. And she appreciated it. Like everything, there's always going to be bad apples who overdo it. So, yeah. What about ozone?

• 2:05:12Speaker 02

  Ozone is interesting. I mean ozone, which is technically O3 and kind of falls in this category of like oxygen therapies. Traditionally has been used for many decades, primarily for wound healing, right? And so the idea, and it still is,

• 2:05:28Speaker 02

  because the more we need to heal a wound, we need more oxygen in that environment. This is why hyperbaric oxygen in the setting of wound healing is very powerful. Very powerful. My wife just had this complicated nose surgery and the surgeon, as part of the recovery. Have to go into hyperbaric oxygen after the treatments for days upon days. Because he found that after having a surgery, you can accelerate the healing. And she's found that she's really enjoyed the hyperbaric oxygen. And that, you know, the trouble with oxygen, not to get too far off the path is for to get oxygen into our system. This is what happens with CPAP, we have to pressurize it.

• 2:06:10Speaker 02

  Right. So the idea with people having sleep apnea, if they have a decreased airway, and they're not getting enough oxygen to their brain, you can't just have them breathe in oxygen. They won't get more oxygen into their system. So you have to pressurize it. So then we have these devices that sit on the side of the bed. No one likes, but it allows for more oxygen to get to the brain. So they don't have apnic events where their blood, you know, oxygen dropping too low. Ozone tying it back in is another one of these therapies that helps oxygenate our tissues. And so what we do in our office, there's different ways to do ozone. Is we'll start an IV and then we'll draw the blood out into a bag. It's a pump system, so it draws the blood out into a bag.

• 2:06:52Speaker 02

  We take oxygen gas, we turn it into ozone, which is O3. So we're taking O2 to O3, putting that in the blood, mixing it. And then we're turning the bag over and running that blood back in. We run it through a UV light to essentially clean it. And we're kind of oxygenating their system. Now industrially ozone gas is used to like clean out used cars. It has a, you know, disinfect it effect. So we think of that happening in the body. So we've seen it with people who have chronic, not necessarily chronic, but things going in their gut or post viral, or they're coming down with an infection. They have a bacterial infection, a viral infection, a yeast infection. You can use ozone successfully to help clean out that system.

• 2:07:36Speaker 02

  And then allows their own innate immune system to strengthen and work. So I think it works well for that, but it also works as an oxygenator, which just helps people have more energy.

• 2:07:46Shawn Ryan?

  How, how, how often should somebody be doing that?

• 2:07:49Speaker 02

  It's variable. I think it depends on what they're working on. If just from a pure, you know, preventive, I want to be my best. I want people to try it if they feel good from it, maybe once a month. I don't necessarily think more than that, maybe once every couple of months. If they're working on stuff, we've had people who, whether it's post COVID or some other viral thing, they're doing it twice a week. So it just depends.

• 2:08:13Shawn Ryan?

  Twice a week?

• 2:08:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. It's very safe. And again, it has a long history.

• 2:08:20Shawn Ryan?

  Have you seen these?

• 2:08:25Shawn Ryan?

  I can't remember what they call it.

• 2:08:27Speaker 02

  I think I know what you're talking about, where people have the bags of yellow.

• 2:08:30Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, it looks like they pissed in a bag and.

• 2:08:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:08:32Shawn Ryan?

  What is that?

• 2:08:33Speaker 02

  Plasmodiferesis. Yeah. So what they're doing is like dialysis, right? And so their, their idea is, is we're going to clean the blood really, really well. And so their plasma exchange is basically what it is. So they're drawing their blood out, they're separating the components. The plasma or serum is the fluid. They take the red blood cells out and they run it through filters or something. And then they run it back in. And the stuff that they're holding is kind of what they call the debris. Now, I think it's more hype than anything. And the reason I say that is I've known several people to do this treatment and they're like, eh, didn't notice much. The other thing I think about, maybe I'm thinking the wrong way, I don't know, is dialysis, they don't get better.

• 2:09:17Speaker 02

  If someone has chronic kidney disease and they're on dialysis, that doesn't get better because they're doing dialysis. Dialysis is filtering their blood so they can remain, you know, alive essentially. So I think it's a bit of a stretch to say, we're just going to clean your blood and you're going to be even healthier. I'm not saying it's bad, but it tends to be very expensive and I've heard it's very uncomfortable. So when I try to evaluate therapies, I don't want to do things that are hurting people per se. And there has to be some efficacy, in fact, a lot of efficacy.

• 2:09:49Shawn Ryan?

  So you're kind of on the fence about this?

• 2:09:51Speaker 02

  I'm not on the fence. I don't recommend it.

• 2:09:53Shawn Ryan?

  You don't recommend it?

• 2:09:54Speaker 02

  Not plasmodiferesis, no. I don't recommend it at all. I looked into offering it in training and the training was exorbitantly expensive. The business model didn't make sense to me. And people are, you mean you have to charge people? I mean, I think people are paying 15, 20,000 per.

• 2:10:07Shawn Ryan?

  I looked at it, per session.

• 2:10:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, per one. I don't, I can't make sense of that. I have a hard time understanding that, particularly when I have people tell me directly, multiple people did it, didn't notice anything. If you're going to spend that much money, I would hope you notice something. Same thing with like peptides, a little bit off topic. If you're injecting yourself with something on a regular basis, I hope you're feeling it. And I don't want it to be that people are just injecting, well, I think it's working. Uh-uh. I want you to feel it. So I'm not a fan of plasmodiferesis. I understand why people would do it, right? Again, again, it's all contextual. If someone had cancer, if someone had some grave disease, why not? Again, why not try everything?

• 2:10:50Speaker 02

  But.

• 2:10:53Shawn Ryan?

  I want to go back to the light plasma.

• 2:10:58Speaker 02

  Say that again?

• 2:10:59Shawn Ryan?

  Light plasma, PEMF, light plasma.

• 2:11:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, the, the PEMF with the magnetic therapy.

• 2:11:06Shawn Ryan?

  So what is that doing?

• 2:11:08Speaker 02

  I'm not, this is not my, you know, subject matter. The way I think about what's been explained to me, we're electrical beings, right? And so electricity is kind of how, we had electricity before we had chemicals. Meaning there was charged potential, there was voltage. We know that, for example, our mitochondria maintain a, or our cells maintain a voltage to exchange ions or exchange different minerals to allow cellular processes to continue. Gross oversimplification. That electricity also creates a magnetic current. And that magnetic current can get incoherent.

• 2:11:50Speaker 02

  And what the PEMF does is essentially lines up this, people are familiar with magnetic therapy, right? Two things repel, and then you put positive, minus, and you get attraction. We're trying to get our cells lined up so there's coherence again. So why would someone want to do that? Well, a lot of people are living with pain, inflammation. You know, my wife's got a lot of kind of stored up tension, pain in her muscles. And she's done a lot of that PEMF and really finds it to make a difference.

• 2:12:22Shawn Ryan?

  It's wow.

• 2:12:23Speaker 02

  And it's non-invasive. And you're looking at 15, 20 minute sessions, sometimes longer. But in, in the terms of looking at the body contextually, you know, more holistically, it's more than just chemicals. And so that's why I'm excited about incorporating some of these energy devices. From PEMF to hydrogen gas inhalation, vibrational plate. We're also looking at vibroacoustic therapy, which is sound as, you know, mechanical therapy.

• 2:12:54Shawn Ryan?

  Everything's nice.

• 2:12:55Speaker 02

  Yeah. So there's this, there's this pod I just trialed. It's called Solodome, S O L O D O M E. And basically sit in it and there's different frequencies you can apply, different songs. But it's basically helping your cells get tuned. Again, a lot of people say, oh, that's quackery, that's woo woo. I don't think so. You know, our, our physical being is both mechanical, it's electrical, it's magnetic, it's chemical, it's all of the above. These therapies that, you know, are non-invasive. Again, going back to ancient traditions, drumming, drumming is, I mean, this has a very profound effect on people.

• 2:13:36Speaker 02

  Rhythm, sound, different frequency, it's a big deal. So we're just trying to understand it, you know? How do you create an environment for the humans to thrive, not just be mediocre?

• 2:13:49Shawn Ryan?

  Any other protocols?

• 2:13:52Speaker 02

  I think for people to do at home is, you know, there's a lot of talk about HRV therapy or HRV understanding, right? Heart rate variability. And what that means is like the in-between the beats of the heart beating. We should have coherence, I've said that word a lot, in-syncness, it should be in sync. So people are using their whoop or their oaring or their Apple watch and trying to get an HRV reading, which ties into their readiness score, their sleep score. And I think that's fine. I think those are probably not the best ways. I think the, the best way is to get, like Garmin makes a chest strap called the Polar device. You just put it on, there's an app and you can do HRV testing.

• 2:14:37Speaker 02

  And I think it makes sense for people to do this at home. When you wake up in the afternoon, understand your baseline and then examine what you do, whether it's behavioral or things you take and see how your HRV is affected. The higher the HRV has been associated with better health outcomes. So that's something I think is important for people to consider.

• 2:14:58Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 2:14:58Speaker 02

  Easy, right? Not complicated. You don't have to do it every day, but just try to get a baseline, understand yourself. I think what's missing for people is, you know, a self-awareness. And, you know, for better or for worse, people are looking for permission for people to do things. You know, that's become very popular. Listen to that podcast, they said to do that. We'll try it out, see how it works for you. You know what I mean? I'm a big fan of exploring that and wanting people to explore it. Everyone's different. Yeah, I commonly hear particularly peptides, hey, my brother, my cousin was doing this peptide. They're doing amazing, why aren't I? Well, you're very different than your brother and your cousin, you know? Doesn't mean it can't work for you, but maybe you need a different dose.

• 2:15:43Speaker 02

  Maybe you need different dosing, maybe you need twice a day instead of once a day. That's what we like trying to help people do is figure out that individualization.

• 2:15:53Shawn Ryan?

  What am I missing?

• 2:15:56Speaker 02

  I don't know.

• 2:15:58Shawn Ryan?

  Think we've got it.

• 2:15:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, this is awesome.

• 2:16:01Shawn Ryan?

  Doc?

• 2:16:02Speaker 02

  I just want to say, Sean, you're, you're doing amazing work. You've, you've had an amazing life. God's really chosen you to do some heavy lifting. You know, you're selfless, you sacrifice throughout your life. It means a lot that I get to know you, that you invite me to have conversations with your audience. And just want you to know, speaking for the rest of your audience, how grateful we are for someone like you. I know it's not easy when you do have to sacrifice and you do have to do heavy lifting. But I can tell you it's noticed. And from my vantage point, it's very much appreciated.

• 2:16:42Shawn Ryan?

  Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for coming. Thank you for saying that. And I hope to see you opening an office here in middle Tennessee. But I'll keep going to South Carolina in the meantime.

• 2:16:56Speaker 02

  I appreciate it.

• 2:16:57Shawn Ryan?

  All right, Doc, it was an honor. Thank you.

• 2:17:12Shawn Ryan?

  No matter where you're watching the Sean Ryan Show from, if you get anything out of this at all, anything, please like, comment and subscribe. And most importantly, share this everywhere you possibly can. And if you're feeling extra generous, head to Apple Podcasts and Spotify and leave us a review.