Is ‘Sterling Point’ the Show of the Summer? Plus, ‘Tires’ Season 3.

Chris and Andy talk about ‘The Night Of’ creators Richard Price and Steven Zaillian reuniting for a Netflix limited series (6:24), the ‘Sons of Anarchy’ cast teaming back up for an FX meta-thriller that takes place during a fan convention (11:28), and ‘Sterling Point’ making a late run for show of the summer (31:50). Later, they discuss ‘Tires’ Season 3 (42:40). Subscribe to the Ringer TV YouTube channel here for full episodes of The Watch and so much more! Hosts: Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald Producers: Kaya McMullen and Kai Grady Studio Production: Sarah Reddy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:30Speaker 01

  Star Wars: The Mandalorian and Grogu is now streaming on Disney+.

• 0:35Speaker 02

  What are you waiting for? Hop on.

• 0:38Speaker 01

  The must-see galactic adventure comes home on Disney+.

• 0:42Speaker 02

  This is the way. Our only chance is to work together.

• 0:47Speaker 02

  I'm like this kid. Always wear your seatbelt.

• 0:52Speaker 01

  Star Wars: The Mandalorian and Grogu now streaming on Disney+. Rated PG-13.

• 1:05Speaker 03

  I need support staff to clear the room.

• 1:08Chris Ryan?

  Stand up and walk now. Hello and welcome to The Watch. My name is Chris Ryan. I am an editor at TheRinger.com. And joining me in the studio here to explain the bond market, it's Andy Greenwald.

• 1:23Andy Greenwald?

  Can anyone in this room explain the bond market?

• 1:25Chris Ryan?

  All I know is Scott Besson puked yesterday.

• 1:27Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, you keep saying this, but I thought there was going to be like TMZ DC gotcha footage of him actually like yakking in a bucket.

• 1:34Chris Ryan?

  No, I mean like he intervened, man. He had to come in and start buying back.

• 1:38Andy Greenwald?

  Is that what you quants call it? Is that what it is? Is that like, is Kevin Warsh gonna puke at the next?

• 1:46Chris Ryan?

  No, I just, it's just, it's just my lingo. It's just my, my way of speaking. Andy, it's great to see you on a Thursday.

• 1:52Andy Greenwald?

  People say we're getting out of touch, but I don't think so.

• 1:54Chris Ryan?

  Who says that?

• 1:55Andy Greenwald?

  I was saying, there were people who were like, maybe they're getting up there in years.

• 1:58Chris Ryan?

  I assure you that whoever says that.

• 2:00Andy Greenwald?

  Is also worried about.

• 2:01Chris Ryan?

  We are more in touch than they are.

• 2:02Andy Greenwald?

  With the bond market?

• 2:03Chris Ryan?

  Well, with everything, with Geese, with the bond market, with Shane Gillis, whose new season of Tires debuted on Netflix. And we're gonna talk about that.

• 2:11Andy Greenwald?

  Okay.

• 2:11Chris Ryan?

  We have a bunch of news to get through. TheWatch at Spotify.com, TheWatchPod underscore at Instagram. And you can watch us on YouTube at The Ringer-TV channel or on Spotify, or I hope you listen to us, or wherever you listen to podcasts. And.

• 2:27Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 2:28Chris Ryan?

  A little bit of housekeeping.

• 2:29Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, good.

• 2:29Chris Ryan?

  So today, obviously, we're gonna do some TV stuff, some TV news, and then Tires, season three, like the first half of it. Not that this is like, you know, lost, you need to like breathlessly track the development of Valley Forge Auto. But then on Monday, we have a little bit of lanterns, a lot of furious, and then Van's gonna join me for Lioness.

• 2:51Andy Greenwald?

  I was gonna say, this would be a good housekeeping moment to say that we're hosting a screening next week here in Los Angeles, but I just found out it's sold out.

• 2:58Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, I knew that.

• 2:59Andy Greenwald?

  You knew that?

• 2:59Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, I just knew.

• 3:00Andy Greenwald?

  Did you buy all the tickets?

• 3:02Chris Ryan?

  No, I had Scott Besson do it. I was just like, this is an incredible way.

• 3:06Andy Greenwald?

  The Los Feliz Three guys are at the box office being like, CR puked. He bought the whole thing. We're hosting a screening of The Bourne Identity next Wednesday for American Cinematheque.

• 3:15Chris Ryan?

  Unless they have tickets, so.

• 3:16Andy Greenwald?

  Well, for those of you who listen, who have tickets, thank you.

• 3:20Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 3:21Andy Greenwald?

  Thank you for propping up our personal bond market. Okay, sorry, didn't need to talk about that.

• 3:25Chris Ryan?

  The yields go up, but the interest goes, it just doesn't make sense.

• 3:28Andy Greenwald?

  Let me, let me just do a quick.

• 3:29Chris Ryan?

  Does anybody in this room understand the bond market?

• 3:31Andy Greenwald?

  What are bonds?

• 3:32Chris Ryan?

  What if Kya was like, actually?

• 3:34Andy Greenwald?

  Wouldn't surprise me.

• 3:35Chris Ryan?

  It's not that I doubt her, it's not that I doubt her intelligence, she's just never mentioned the bond market to me.

• 3:40Andy Greenwald?

  People who know the bond market don't need to mention it.

• 3:42Speaker 06

  Is the bond market different than the stock market?

• 3:44Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 3:45Andy Greenwald?

  Well, in the sense that both are markets. Some are wet, some are dry.

• 3:49Speaker 06

  Can you explain to me the difference?

• 3:51Andy Greenwald?

  I had one, I know you wanna get into news.

• 3:53Chris Ryan?

  No, this is Thursday, we can let it rip.

• 3:55Andy Greenwald?

  I had, didn't know what day it was. Had a quick thing, though. I don't know if you're following the story that was, that was breaking to this morning or this week, that apparently there is a high-end phishing scheme where celebrities, authors, journalists are being, are receiving messages from prominent podcasts, or so they appear to be, saying, we'd love for you to appear on, for example, Fresh, this is Terry Gross.

• 4:20Chris Ryan?

  Well, no, I mean.

• 4:20Andy Greenwald?

  Please come on Fresh Air.

• 4:21Chris Ryan?

  Much like this season of Lioness.

• 4:23Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 4:23Chris Ryan?

  The war has come home. It happened to Good Hang Podcast, I believe.

• 4:26Andy Greenwald?

  Well, I was getting there, I was getting there. Maybe Kya can, or I don't know if legally she can speak to it or not.

• 4:30Chris Ryan?

  She's like, bond market.

• 4:32Andy Greenwald?

  But anyway, you know, people who legitimately may, legitimately maybe could have been guests on these podcasts were receiving messages and like, some of them, you know, sent in information, some of them showed up on, like Bruce Valance showed up on a Zoom where a black box said NPR.

• 4:48Chris Ryan?

  Really?

• 4:49Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah. And then waited and then was like, oh, I get it, you know?

• 4:54Chris Ryan?

  But had he entered like his credit card information or is it just like a prank?

• 4:57Andy Greenwald?

  No, he did make a donation to National Public Radio.

• 5:02Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 5:02Andy Greenwald?

  This is, this is a hell of a grift, by the way. Can you imagine if you got one that's like, hey, it's John Ossoff. I know you're liking what I'm putting down right now. Would you make a small donation? But it's just some dude's PayPal. Anyway, my question for you is, why not us?

• 5:16Chris Ryan?

  Why haven't we been fished?

• 5:18Andy Greenwald?

  No, why?

• 5:18Chris Ryan?

  Or why don't we start offering ourselves up to this, for this kind of?

• 5:21Andy Greenwald?

  I guess I kinda wanted to just put it on the table, bring you this news, and then wonder like, is there a potential target? I don't wanna help the scammers, but also I wonder if there's a certain mid-level celeb or thought warrior who might be susceptible to this grift, if it was just like.

• 5:38Chris Ryan?

  To come on our pod?

• 5:38Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, if it was just like, hey, man, this is CR. I know you love listening to me on podcasts.

• 5:45Andy Greenwald?

  I'd love for you to join us on The Watch to share your takes on. Do you, I mean, do you think that there's a, it's a, is a fertile ground?

• 5:54Chris Ryan?

  How high up in Trump's cabinet do you think we could get? Who do you think would come on the pod?

• 5:58Andy Greenwald?

  Stephen Chung.

• 6:00Chris Ryan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 6:00Andy Greenwald?

  Easy.

• 6:01Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 6:02Andy Greenwald?

  You mean like actual like?

• 6:03Chris Ryan?

  Like, do you think if I was like, hey, Scott, I just don't get it. I don't really know what's going on.

• 6:08Andy Greenwald?

  Probably. I feel like Sean Duffy is very.

• 6:11Chris Ryan?

  Do you have a sec?

• 6:12Andy Greenwald?

  Sean Duffy is media forward.

• 6:13Chris Ryan?

  Yes. Yeah, yeah.

• 6:14Andy Greenwald?

  You know what I mean?

• 6:15Chris Ryan?

  I wouldn't want any of those fucking guys on this podcast.

• 6:17Andy Greenwald?

  No, I know.

• 6:17Chris Ryan?

  This is a sacred space.

• 6:19Andy Greenwald?

  Is there anyone that you think that I, I mean, again, I'm not.

• 6:22Chris Ryan?

  Would you have Natalie on?

• 6:24Andy Greenwald?

  For the clicks?

• 6:25Chris Ryan?

  No, for just to get as a psychological portrait.

• 6:29Andy Greenwald?

  Who among us hasn't climbed into a trunk to be near to those that we love?

• 6:37Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, okay.

• 6:38Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 6:38Andy Greenwald?

  I like that you immediately went White House. I think that you have political ambitions, both like in terms of your career and maybe in terms of your career. You know what I mean? Like in terms of what you wanna cover, who you wanna be hobnobbing with.

• 6:49Chris Ryan?

  I think the thing about The Watch is it can be anything we want it to be.

• 6:52Andy Greenwald?

  Okay.

• 6:52Chris Ryan?

  You know?

• 6:53Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 6:54Chris Ryan?

  It's sort of Plato in that way. Like, we can just kind of like mold it on to any kind of like experience we wanna have with it. We could be like a food and travel podcast. We could be a political podcast. We could make it a podcast about economic discovery and financial well-being.

• 7:09Andy Greenwald?

  I was gonna make it a resistance podcast until Alex Vindman went down in flames in Florida, and I was like, Jesus, I gotta find a new grift. That's why we're covering tires today.

• 7:20Chris Ryan?

  That's right.

• 7:21Andy Greenwald?

  We're just two years late for the VOD shift, but, you know.

• 7:24Chris Ryan?

  Let's talk about some shit we're excited about. That's what I, I have this called. There was a couple of announcements this week in the world of TV that, that piqued our interest. Number one is the return of two Watch goats.

• 7:38Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 7:38Chris Ryan?

  I mean, accomplished screenwriters, in some cases bestselling authors. But Richard Price and Steve Zalien are back at it again. They made one of my favorite TV shows of all time, The Night Of. Richard Price, obviously, has been a guest on this show, as is Steve Zalien.

• 7:54Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, we had him.

• 7:55Chris Ryan?

  And Price is the author of Clockers and the author of Freedom Land and Semen. Lush Life, one of my favorite books. He's also the screenwriter behind Color of Money and Sea of Love and many other screenplays. They collaborated years ago with HBO on, on The Night Of with Riz Ahmed and John Turturro, and now are reuniting to adapt a nonfiction book from 2015 called Ghetto Side. Now, Zalien hasn't done a TV project, or really, I don't think any project since Ripley, which was my favorite show of the year it was released. And very high up on your list.

• 8:35Chris Ryan?

  This is based on this 2015 book by Joe Leoville, and this is the log line. "On a warm spring evening in South Los Angeles, a young man is shot and killed on a sidewalk minutes away from his home, one of thousands of black Americans murdered that year. His assailant runs down the street, jumps into an SUV, and vanishes, hoping to join the scores of killers in American cities who are never arrested for their crimes. But as soon as the case is assigned to Detective John Skaggs, the odds shift."

• 9:05Chris Ryan?

  And you say what?

• 9:05Andy Greenwald?

  Scag season.

• 9:06Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 9:08Andy Greenwald?

  I, so I think the one thing that I don't know if you mentioned in your beautiful preamble is that this is going to be for Netflix.

• 9:14Chris Ryan?

  This is, this is for Netflix. Thank you.

• 9:16Andy Greenwald?

  I think it's interesting primarily because this has HBO all over it because of Price's long association with the network. He, he did the.

• 9:29Chris Ryan?

  Road on the Wire.

• 9:29Andy Greenwald?

  Yes, but also what was the show that we liked that we almost, it's like been memory holed because of COVID with Ben Mendelsohn.

• 9:35Chris Ryan?

  Outsider.

• 9:36Andy Greenwald?

  Yes.

• 9:38Andy Greenwald?

  And.

• 9:38Chris Ryan?

  Jason Bateman.

• 9:39Andy Greenwald?

  And, and it just seems like since the, yes, and it seems like since the headlines were like Night of Reunion, not sequel, but spiritual sequel in the sense of these guys working together in a crime story pulled from the headlines, or in this case, pulled from a nonfiction book. That would feel like a natural home for it. And I find it interesting that Netflix swooped in and just, and just got it. You can look at this a number of ways. You can look at it as Netflix reinforcing what we talked about last week about how this is true crime adjacent. So it kind of fits in with some of their programming. You can look at it as they were very up, Netflix was very opportunistic in snapping up Zalion's Ripley from Showtime where it was floundering. And I think they turned it into, again, we loved it. It's a masterpiece.

• 10:21Andy Greenwald?

  I think it did well enough for them because it got Emmy consideration. So that could be a sign of them once again, just being like smart movers when the market shifts like.

• 10:30Chris Ryan?

  Too bad, because I, I mean, the dream in life would be for them to continue to make stuff in the Ripley verse. And I.

• 10:36Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 10:37Chris Ryan?

  I think Andrew Scott is probably a little old to keep playing Ripley, but that being said, like, some of the stuff that happens at the end of the first season of Ripley, or that season of Ripley would suggest that maybe they had designs on.

• 10:48Andy Greenwald?

  Well, we talked to Zalion about, I mean, I think the desire was to do more of them, but I think the lift may have just been too hard because it was so exacting and such a demanding and involved and ultimately beautiful production.

• 10:58Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 10:58Andy Greenwald?

  The third piece that I would just look to is, I would just, I would wind horse fingers anytime Netflix swoops in and tries to drink HBO's milkshake only because we've talked about it before, but there is a division within Netflix led by former HBO executive Nora Skinner, who they're, I think actively trying to recreate some of the, the good prestigious creative vibes.

• 11:20Chris Ryan?

  Literary projects.

• 11:21Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah. So that all makes sense, but the, the main takeaway is this is awesome for us. We'll have a show to make next year.

• 11:27Chris Ryan?

  I, I wonder if, if Zalion's going to direct all of it like he did with Ripley. And I also wonder if Robert Ellsworth, who shot Ripley.

• 11:36Andy Greenwald?

  Bob.

• 11:36Chris Ryan?

  Would, would maybe be available to shoot this. Hope they shoot it in Los Angeles, obviously. That would be essential, I think, if you're going to make a show about LA crime to shoot it here. Has there been any, like, development? Have you heard anything about any of the Jordan Harper noirs getting developed for TV or for?

• 11:56Andy Greenwald?

  I, my, no, but I think, well, I guess my understanding of it is that Jordan, who wrote Everybody Knows, a book we loved two years ago, and his new book, Violent Masterpiece, I just finished this year, because he is also a screenwriter and has worked on TV and, you know, I, this, this came up during the rewatchables, that, that he's actually the guy who was writing and potentially would have showrun in series, the LA Confidential TV series from years ago. My, my understanding is that he wants to make these himself, as well he should, but I don't know where they stand.

• 12:28Chris Ryan?

  Speaking of, of seizing the means of production.

• 12:31Andy Greenwald?

  You're good at this.

• 12:32Chris Ryan?

  Charlie Hunnam.

• 12:33Andy Greenwald?

  Yes. Fascinating.

• 12:35Chris Ryan?

  Made his name as, as the lead of Sons of Anarchy and FX, a long-running FX show.

• 12:40Andy Greenwald?

  You don't think he made his name on Undeclared?

• 12:42Chris Ryan?

  I would say that Sons of Anarchy was a bigger deal than Undeclared, but I thought he was delightful on Undeclared.

• 12:47Andy Greenwald?

  Thank you. Thank you for seeing me.

• 12:49Chris Ryan?

  And I also find him delightful in The Gentleman, the movie.

• 12:54Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, yeah. Right.

• 12:55Chris Ryan?

  But he, he's best known for Sons of Anarchy. And funnily enough, he is reuniting the cast of Sons of Anarchy, or most of it, for a show called Legends, which will also be on FX, which was Sons of Anarchy's home for a long time.

• 13:07Andy Greenwald?

  This is not the Steve Coogan show that we covered briefly.

• 13:09Chris Ryan?

  No. And I believe that this is, so the log line is that the original cast of Sons of Anarchy reunite at a convention, a fan convention, and something goes off the rails and they're, they're put in peril, I imagine. The way I'm reading this is that this is a, it has real single cam camera action comedy written over, like, maybe docudrama.

• 13:36Andy Greenwald?

  Right.

• 13:36Chris Ryan?

  Style. Maybe not, I don't know, but like Hunnam apparently is like very creatively involved in this. Is he the writer of this?

• 13:43Andy Greenwald?

  I believe this is his project.

• 13:45Chris Ryan?

  This is his project. It got Kurt Sutter's blessing. He is the creator of Sons of Anarchy, a long time showrunner of that show, and reunites many of the cast members, Katie Segal, Ron Perlman, Theo Rossi, et cetera.

• 13:58Andy Greenwald?

  So Hunnam developed it with, with Jonathan Groff, who is an incredibly accomplished and very, very funny and talented writer, showrunner. He was.

• 14:08Chris Ryan?

  He worked on English Teacher?

• 14:10Andy Greenwald?

  He did not work on English Teacher, but he worked on, oh my God, Happy Endings.

• 14:15Chris Ryan?

  Oh, right.

• 14:16Andy Greenwald?

  For many years and Blackish and came up with Conan O'Brien. And so there is a, there is an established comedy mind here.

• 14:24Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 14:25Andy Greenwald?

  For a show that I think will probably be more than comedy, but the, the main comp here is that they're galaxy questing themselves.

• 14:30Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 14:30Andy Greenwald?

  Right? Have you guys done that on rewatchables?

• 14:32Chris Ryan?

  No. Do you like Galaxy Quest?

• 14:35Andy Greenwald?

  Love Galaxy Quest.

• 14:36Chris Ryan?

  I don't know that I've ever seen it.

• 14:38Andy Greenwald?

  Really?

• 14:39Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. I'm just being completely honest between, between these two walls.

• 14:42Andy Greenwald?

  Nobody listens. It's just us. Tell me your secrets.

• 14:45Chris Ryan?

  But the premise of Galaxy, Galaxy Quest is.

• 14:48Andy Greenwald?

  A Star Trek-like cast forced to continue, continue to relive, you know, a relatively embarrassing or low creative moment in their lives at fan conventions are swept up when a actual alien who has been watching their television show brings them aboard the ship to save their galaxy because he thinks the show is real.

• 15:09Chris Ryan?

  His show is real.

• 15:10Andy Greenwald?

  And it's a top, top tier Sigourney Weaver, Alan Rickman, Tony Shalhoub. Honestly, maybe the best Tim Allen performance, too.

• 15:18Chris Ryan?

  There's a, there's two different sort of tracks of conversation here to have. Obviously.

• 15:23Andy Greenwald?

  One is I'm going to do a one-man Galaxy Quest rewatchables. Which camera's on? This is going to be good.

• 15:28Chris Ryan?

  You would be the only person to ever do that other than Bill.

• 15:30Andy Greenwald?

  Do a one-man rewatchables? Has he done a one-man rewatchables?

• 15:33Chris Ryan?

  Castaway.

• 15:34Andy Greenwald?

  He did it solo with a ball?

• 15:35Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 15:36Andy Greenwald?

  God, he's, he's unbelievable.

• 15:38Chris Ryan?

  He's the goat. He's the goat.

• 15:40Andy Greenwald?

  We should talk about how I've known him now for 15 years and I have never seen him laugh harder than when you were suggesting that the Sixers would wear black armbands for an entire season after he's had you assassinated for getting too big for your britches. That was a very sweet moment. Because not only were you very, very funny as always, but he was really, he was gone.

• 16:01Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. The thing that's not in the clip itself is that Bill and Sean were more delighted by the idea of other people who didn't know me tweeting their memories of me.

• 16:10Andy Greenwald?

  Yes. What's like, like.

• 16:13Chris Ryan?

  They would spend clearly more time screenshotting and sending each other the screenshots than they would actually morning me.

• 16:20Andy Greenwald?

  Can you imagine what Keri Russell would put on Blue Sky? How about the one time she saw you?

• 16:25Chris Ryan?

  You know what? I'm not trying to violate Keri Russell's privacy, man. Yeah.

• 16:29Andy Greenwald?

  What?

• 16:31Andy Greenwald?

  You, you saw her recently.

• 16:33Chris Ryan?

  In public. Yeah.

• 16:34Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah. And you didn't speak.

• 16:37Chris Ryan?

  No, I didn't.

• 16:38Andy Greenwald?

  But you thought maybe.

• 16:40Chris Ryan?

  I think that the way to put celebrities at ease.

• 16:43Andy Greenwald?

  I'm excited about this.

• 16:44Chris Ryan?

  Spaces where, so Keri Russell, this is, we can keep this, I don't care, maybe.

• 16:48Andy Greenwald?

  We don't need to say where.

• 16:49Chris Ryan?

  Are in a store together, right?

• 16:51Andy Greenwald?

  Okay.

• 16:51Chris Ryan?

  All right. It's just us.

• 16:52Andy Greenwald?

  It's just a normal store.

• 16:54Chris Ryan?

  It's a normal store.

• 16:55Andy Greenwald?

  It's fine.

• 16:56Chris Ryan?

  It's where normal men shop.

• 16:57Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, by themselves.

• 16:58Chris Ryan?

  And Keri Russell is there shopping and I am shopping. And my vibe to Keri Russell, but also to just celebrities in general. So if you see me on the street, know that this is how I treat you.

• 17:09Andy Greenwald?

  You speaking to the celebrities now? Okay.

• 17:12Chris Ryan?

  Natalie Harp, whoever is watching.

• 17:15Andy Greenwald?

  Whoever is watching.

• 17:17Chris Ryan?

  I am like, basically, I try to be like, here's my, here's my psychological game. You're not the famous one, you know?

• 17:26Andy Greenwald?

  This is also.

• 17:26Chris Ryan?

  But it's only a game. It's not like I think that, but I'm like, if I'm like, you know, like here I am, I'm shopping, whatever. It's not quite, I don't know who you are.

• 17:35Andy Greenwald?

  No.

• 17:35Chris Ryan?

  Cause I'm not going to go up to Keri Russell and be like, is this cool? Should I buy this? But I'm not going to be like, oh my God, it's Keri Russell. Oh my God, text, text, text, text, text.

• 17:43Andy Greenwald?

  No, no, no. First of all, it's not like a game. It's literally the game, the dating manual written by Neil Strauss and the man known as Mystery. You are nagging celebrities to get them to be more interested in you.

• 17:54Chris Ryan?

  Nobody's nagging anybody.

• 17:56Andy Greenwald?

  You don't think, but.

• 17:58Chris Ryan?

  I'm just not going like surreptitiously like taking pictures.

• 18:01Andy Greenwald?

  No. So we live in the city of angels. There's stars everywhere.

• 18:05Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 18:05Andy Greenwald?

  And frankly, they often are just like us. When we, when I see them or encounter them, I don't do anything at all. In fact, I just power down like C-3PO in Star Wars when he's not needed for a while. I just sort of slump over until the room is clear.

• 18:20Chris Ryan?

  That's going to be when you and Kaya talk about Sterling Point.

• 18:23Andy Greenwald?

  Gets it a couple plays out. My, my, what I'm trying to push on is the idea that you are bringing in a second energy. Like you are now taking on a different personality.

• 18:32Chris Ryan?

  I don't really do this. I, I, it's just like, it's just like in your head.

• 18:37Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 18:37Chris Ryan?

  To talk yourself out of freaking out about being in the room.

• 18:41Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 18:41Chris Ryan?

  With Keri Russell or whoever.

• 18:43Andy Greenwald?

  Right.

• 18:44Chris Ryan?

  You and McGregor, it doesn't matter.

• 18:46Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 18:47Chris Ryan?

  You have to almost trick yourself into being like, that person doesn't, um, they're probably thinking that's Chris Ryan. That's Andy Greenwald. You know what I mean?

• 18:55Andy Greenwald?

  They're not thinking that. They're probably like, I heard that guy got killed.

• 19:00Andy Greenwald?

  Because LeBron signed with the Sixers and here he is up and about. This is good. This is great.

• 19:06Chris Ryan?

  What other TV shows would you like to see Galaxy Quested?

• 19:09Andy Greenwald?

  Thank you for that question. I think there's a lot. Well, first of all, let me just say that when we did back in the Grantland days, Sons of Anarchy, I think was the number one show that I would be asked about, like when we would do mailbags or I would do a column of questions. That I, I mean the show No Ill Will when I say I never saw a frame of it because that was the show that was like well into its run when I started my watch. Literally, and then I just didn't catch up. So I have no relationship to that show.

• 19:35Chris Ryan?

  That is a show that I am, I don't know how to describe this because I don't feel like, maybe I'm wrong, but I don't know that this is a common way to watch TV anymore. That was a show I was like completely aware of, but can't remember being like, it's Wednesday, it's time to watch Sons of Anarchy.

• 19:52Andy Greenwald?

  Right.

• 19:53Chris Ryan?

  But I was like, ah, yes, Sam Crowe is now run afoul of a rival bike gang and

• 19:58Andy Greenwald?

  Good for you.

• 19:58Chris Ryan?

  There was like a baby for a while that was in distress and it was like

• 20:01Andy Greenwald?

  Was he riding a bike?

• 20:03Chris Ryan?

  No, but like it got kidnapped a bunch, if I think.

• 20:06Andy Greenwald?

  Once is too many times. I thought you were gonna say

• 20:08Chris Ryan?

  It's all about ball security.

• 20:11Chris Ryan?

  If a running back fumbles once.

• 20:12Andy Greenwald?

  Are you suggesting that when, before you leave the hospital, they should do some of those ball security drills where these assistant coaches have like long boom mics?

• 20:20Chris Ryan?

  Not with a real baby, but with like a fake baby. Yeah.

• 20:22Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 20:23Chris Ryan?

  So I am, I would describe myself as like conversant in Sons of Anarchy while not

• 20:28Andy Greenwald?

  I think that's, I think you're selling yourself short. That's more than conversant. The example of watching TV that I thought you were gonna use was something that I fear is also out of fashion these days. But for example, I have never knowingly or intentionally sat down and watched an episode of the Fox procedural Bones, which I believe ran for 27 years.

• 20:46Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 20:46Andy Greenwald?

  I'm estimating. However, every time I went to the dentist or got my oil changed in a car, now I drive an electric, so it's moot, but you know what I mean?

• 20:58Chris Ryan?

  Tires must have been very foreign to you.

• 21:00Andy Greenwald?

  No, I thought it was quaint.

• 21:01Chris Ryan?

  All those oil, all those oil changes going on.

• 21:04Andy Greenwald?

  A period piece. A period piece. None of these people could be catfished by Fresh Air and Terry Gross. I'll tell you that much.

• 21:14Andy Greenwald?

  I, I would watch, Bones would be on.

• 21:16Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 21:17Andy Greenwald?

  So I thought, but I, but I couldn't tell you the name of the character. I think it's like

• 21:20Chris Ryan?

  Emily Bones.

• 21:20Andy Greenwald?

  It's Emily Bones.

• 21:21Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 21:22Andy Greenwald?

  Right.

• 21:22Chris Ryan?

  It is Dr. Bones, isn't it? Or is she just Bones because she's a medical examiner?

• 21:27Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, I think it was Elizabeth Bones.

• 21:29Chris Ryan?

  Bones, the bone zone is Bones and Rosalien Isles. I have seen 200 episodes of the last 10 minutes of those episodes. Because they would be on before basketball on TNT.

• 21:42Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, what about Law and Order reruns? No?

• 21:44Chris Ryan?

  Not as much on TNT as you would think. Yeah, that was more of a TBS or USA thing.

• 21:49Andy Greenwald?

  It's a USA thing because

• 21:50Chris Ryan?

  But when you tune in for the first of a double header on a Wednesday on TNT with Chuck and Kenny.

• 21:55Andy Greenwald?

  You do the work.

• 21:56Chris Ryan?

  Rosalien Isles, right there.

• 21:57Andy Greenwald?

  All of this to say, uh, this sounds pretty great and much more interesting, I think to me than like a retread of, of the show that, to be frank, I never watched. So I think it's kind of exciting and it's a fun idea and the cast is clearly into it. And I do think that there is potentially good precedent here. I mean, you never want something to be super navel gazing of just like celebrities hanging out and enjoying how funny they are together. But until Chris walks into the room.

• 22:27Andy Greenwald?

  What if the premise was the cast of Sons of Anarchy at a convention and then you walk into the convention?

• 22:32Chris Ryan?

  I was like, you guys all meeting up?

• 22:33Andy Greenwald?

  You guys here to see me?

• 22:34Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 22:35Andy Greenwald?

  I'll be signing.

• 22:35Chris Ryan?

  That's not what I mean. I just mean that I try in my head to be like, that's just a normal person.

• 22:43Andy Greenwald?

  That's a different way of saying it.

• 22:43Chris Ryan?

  Even if I'm like, you're the diplomat. I'm just like, you know, I just, you're just chilling. You're shopping.

• 22:48Andy Greenwald?

  You saw Emily de Chanel and you're like, holy shit, that's Bones.

• 22:53Andy Greenwald?

  Forget it. She's just like, she's just made of bones like the rest of us.

• 22:56Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 22:58Andy Greenwald?

  I think the idea of a show like this is an interesting and potentially promising precedent. Instead of just doing a reunion of the show.

• 23:07Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, yes.

• 23:08Andy Greenwald?

  Like, did we need that last season of Frasier that they tried to reboot?

• 23:13Chris Ryan?

  Honestly, from what I know about Sons of Anarchy from like reading interviews with cast members and stuff like that, I, I do know that the bonds made on that show were quite deep and quite passionate. And you know, that there, there was like a lot of testosterone on that, on that set.

• 23:32Andy Greenwald?

  I think

• 23:32Chris Ryan?

  I think if you can play with that, if you can discuss that, it'll be worthwhile. I'm, more than even Galaxy Quested, it is interesting to see FX dig in the crates a little bit.

• 23:44Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, of their, of their own IP.

• 23:46Chris Ryan?

  Network that, you know, has been, they've, they've kind of fallen under the Disney umbrella broadly, but more than that, like, you know, their, their work is available on Hulu and Disney Plus and they, they have a linear, at least a cable presence, but not a one that I think people think of them for.

• 24:07Andy Greenwald?

  Anymore, yeah.

• 24:08Chris Ryan?

  And I, I was just interested to see that, like, I wonder if this thing would make people, the folks who worked on the Shield or the folks, you know, they've done some justified stuff, but is there other stuff to do here?

• 24:20Andy Greenwald?

  Well, what are, what are also though? The casts ensembles that have like the highest Q rating and approval rating and your friends, who's nothing to you, Keri Russell and Matthew Reese, for example, like the, I feel like the interview that they did for the Variety cover story probably had more views than, than Widows Bay did on Apple TV, on Apple TV. You know what I mean? Like, I think people love them together. They're delightful. So a show with them doing something as themselves would probably be more entertaining and honestly creatively fruitful than, than the Americans, but this time in Russia 20 years later. Like, I don't, hold on now, let me just type that down. You know what I mean?

• 25:03Chris Ryan?

  Email land grab.

• 25:04Andy Greenwald?

  But there are other like, there are other casts that where they just have famously have an interesting rapport that it might be worth seeing them try to bounce off of who they were, whether it's like Parks and Rec, because you know, Kaya's overseen some of these mini reunions on Good Hang and these guys love each other and they have an interesting history and some of them are in different places now with their lives and careers. Mad Men, like Ham and Slattery, I know we're just in that movie that I didn't see.

• 25:25Chris Ryan?

  Gail Doherty, yeah.

• 25:26Andy Greenwald?

  Did you see it?

• 25:27Chris Ryan?

  No.

• 25:27Andy Greenwald?

  But like, they're fun, but I think the ultimate example, correct me if I'm wrong here, I think the, the ultimate example of a show that would benefit from getting Galaxy Quested would be The Good Wife.

• 25:39Chris Ryan?

  Okay, why?

• 25:39Andy Greenwald?

  Now, I want to be clear, I never watched it. I thought Christine Baranski was great in it.

• 25:44Chris Ryan?

  Sure. You never watched an episode of The Good Wife?

• 25:47Andy Greenwald?

  No, we're being honest here, just between the two of us. You never watched Galaxy Quest. I never watched The Good Wife.

• 25:52Chris Ryan?

  Did you ever watch The Good Fight?

• 25:54Andy Greenwald?

  Uh, no, because I felt like I wouldn't get the jokes, you know? But isn't that the show where Juliana Margulies and Archie Punjabi?

• 26:03Chris Ryan?

  Allegedly.

• 26:03Andy Greenwald?

  Allegedly fell out so intensely.

• 26:05Chris Ryan?

  It's so funny you mention this.

• 26:06Andy Greenwald?

  That they never appeared on screen together again. So I'm suggesting a Galaxy Quest type reboot where the actors have to investigate what happened.

• 26:13Chris Ryan?

  I've been dying to ask you about this for like 12 hours.

• 26:16Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, okay.

• 26:17Chris Ryan?

  That was a huge controversy when it happened.

• 26:19Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 26:19Chris Ryan?

  Everybody was like, wait a second. Not only like, were they not sharing screen time for maybe multiple seasons before that last, that episode?

• 26:30Andy Greenwald?

  I don't remember.

• 26:31Chris Ryan?

  They were always on the phone. They were like, these are two people who would, every other character finds a reason to like go meet this other character for coffee.

• 26:38Andy Greenwald?

  Right.

• 26:38Chris Ryan?

  But the Juliana Margulies and Archie Punjabi character would only talk on the phone when they were talking.

• 26:45Chris Ryan?

  Since then, one thing that drives me crazy when watching TV is when I feel like it looks as if

• 26:54Andy Greenwald?

  The distance.

• 26:54Chris Ryan?

  The two characters are not in the same setting, like that they have shot their coverage like on different days.

• 27:01Andy Greenwald?

  There's no establishing shot, no two-shot.

• 27:03Chris Ryan?

  And this was my big thing with, um, The Morning Show, which is what, you know, when you watch The Morning Show, you know, I understand the De Niro Pacino heat, like you only want Aniston and Reese facing off every so often, but they have a lot to do with each other. And I did feel like there were some scenes where I was like, who is Marion Cotillard talking to? Like, it's like a shot of her talking and then it would be like, the person's reaction felt almost incongruous to like what was being talked about. And there would be a lot, like a complete absence of master shots where you would be like, oh, these two people are in the room together. I was watching, I was fucking on Instagram yesterday and like some SAG panel was coming up. Or something. And Paul Downs was talking about how

• 27:47Andy Greenwald?

  Paul Downs, the co-creator and co-star of

• 27:48Chris Ryan?

  of Hacks. Was talking about how that is like now a production tool, which is to digitally, like basically take

• 27:58Chris Ryan?

  Hannah Linebinder's take of this, this take of one of her coverage.

• 28:01Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 28:02Chris Ryan?

  I know, I understand like, it's like, yes, you can do like different, that's how you cut shows.

• 28:07Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 28:08Chris Ryan?

  But like basically digitally replacing or digitally manipulating the way those scenes are, are shot.

• 28:14Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 28:15Chris Ryan?

  Even taking the actual, I don't know if I'm explaining it right. Do you know what I'm talking about?

• 28:19Andy Greenwald?

  Kaya, can we do this for podcasts? Like not be in the same room? Just asking for the future.

• 28:27Andy Greenwald?

  Well, to be like, yes, they mix and match.

• 28:31Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, I understand editing, but I mean, like, I think he was referring to a more significant.

• 28:37Andy Greenwald?

  It's possible. I mean, it's certainly, it's certainly technically possible. And I think the level of, I think that from, I think the discourse around all movies and all television shows must be purely analog, or we have outsourced ourselves to the demon known as Claude. Like, I think there is a middle ground, some of which is also worrying. But I think that that middle ground has, that's where we already exist in terms of what's possible and what you can mix and match and what you can slightly tweak. I mean, you can manufacture, I think I read a story about this, too. I mean, you can manufacture facial expressions on actors, which SAG is quite concerned about.

• 29:11Chris Ryan?

  Oh, I talked to an indie filmmaker the other week and I was like, I was like, well, they were talking to me about like their post-production schedule that they were doing, but they were also working on their film. And they were like, oh, the VFX of this movie were, you know, I had to basically approve, but I couldn't be there for it. I was like, VFX? And they're like, yeah, VFX.

• 29:30Andy Greenwald?

  Everything has VFX.

• 29:31Chris Ryan?

  And it wasn't, it wasn't a movie where you'd be like, obviously they've used a bunch of VFX in this.

• 29:35Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, I, I think that's further along than anyone realizes. But in terms of something like The Morning Show, again, based on no actual knowledge of it, my assumption with a show like that has always been the production challenges of juggling a, not just a massive cast, but an incredibly top-heavy cast of like, pretty big actors used to doing their own things, demands a, let's say, creative blocking structure where actors might not be available at the same time.

• 30:02Chris Ryan?

  Right.

• 30:02Andy Greenwald?

  I mean, and, I mean, I think that the, as production, as TV production, in my day, no. Historically, a TV production would be, you are blocked out for the four months that the show is shooting its season and you are available and you can't.

• 30:17Chris Ryan?

  And you might work Thursday and you might work Tuesday.

• 30:18Andy Greenwald?

  Or you might not work again until July, but you can't cut your hair and you can't shave or whatever. You have to have continuity.

• 30:23Chris Ryan?

  And now it's a lot more like, we've got this person, we're gonna shoot them out in nine days, right?

• 30:28Andy Greenwald?

  It's more that we have to because, yes, because, or we lose them. And also just the nature of television production is like, like a show that I've been working on, you know, shoots for months and months and months, longer than many movies do.

• 30:40Chris Ryan?

  Right.

• 30:41Andy Greenwald?

  And then the gymnastics of just getting people who are available onto the show is just outrageous.

• 30:46Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, and I think you can sometimes see the seams in good ways and bad on different shows where you're like, it feels like they had to shoot this person out and they had like, to make that work, they were like, we're gonna shoot a lot of your stuff on this set and then a lot of your stuff on this set and you're all good.

• 31:03Andy Greenwald?

  I actually, I will say, not to brag, but I did have to have the uncomfortable conversation with someone, with an actor once, that he couldn't shave his mustache for another, another role.

• 31:12Chris Ryan?

  Is it me?

• 31:13Andy Greenwald?

  Yes. It was continuity, week to week. Would you want to Galaxy Quest any show? Did anything come to mind? We can circle back.

• 31:22Chris Ryan?

  No, I mean, I'm kind of a romantic. I don't really like the, I don't really like, it's not like I wanna know, like, I don't want Lost to be chattered with like, a convention with the cast of Lost, you know what I mean?

• 31:37Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 31:38Chris Ryan?

  Or, you know, find out that the cast of Deadwood are all really like, normal guys, you know, like.

• 31:46Andy Greenwald?

  Chill bros talking about NA beers.

• 31:48Chris Ryan?

  I wanna have the suspension of disbelief where I'm like, no, it's Al Swearengen.

• 31:51Andy Greenwald?

  It is the, I mean, I don't know how many Deadwood conventions there are because I haven't heard of you going to any, so I'm assuming there are none. But that, that lifestyle is interesting.

• 32:00Chris Ryan?

  I think there are conventions where like, Titus Welliver will go and be like, I signed autographs and some people ask for like.

• 32:07Andy Greenwald?

  Bosch.

• 32:07Chris Ryan?

  Bosch and some people ask for.

• 32:09Andy Greenwald?

  Bosch Legacy.

• 32:10Chris Ryan?

  And some people ask for Deadwood and the two parts I played on Deadwood.

• 32:13Andy Greenwald?

  But he's like, mostly Bosch.

• 32:14Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 32:14Andy Greenwald?

  I saw that Cheryl and Fen was beefing with the organizers of like a David Lynch slash Twin Peaks convention about like, not showing up, but basically being like, I didn't want to appear there because some of the actors barely knew David and didn't work with him and now they're all like, skitching on his legacy. Didn't name names.

• 32:32Chris Ryan?

  She was, she was appearing at a Twin Peaks, she's season two screening that was happening in Portland when I was there.

• 32:39Andy Greenwald?

  Did you big timer?

• 32:40Chris Ryan?

  No.

• 32:41Andy Greenwald?

  Were you like, I bet she's wondering who I am and who I played on Twin Peaks, season two?

• 32:45Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. It's me, the log lady.

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• 34:51Chris Ryan?

  Couple other things. I just wanted to mention that Sterling Point, probably unremarked upon other than our first initial comments on the show, has kind of become the show of the summer in some, in some districts.

• 35:02Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 35:04Chris Ryan?

  In Kai's district, in my house's district, where I have, I would say Sons of Anarchy style, passively participated in the show.

• 35:14Andy Greenwald?

  Okay, meaning it's been airing.

• 35:15Chris Ryan?

  I know what happens.

• 35:16Andy Greenwald?

  In the waiting room of your home.

• 35:17Chris Ryan?

  I can tell when there's a sex scene.

• 35:19Andy Greenwald?

  How?

• 35:20Chris Ryan?

  There's very specific music that YA, these YA shows use during sex scenes, that I can only describe as like, Hollister Safe trap music or some, you know what I mean?

• 35:32Andy Greenwald?

  Sure.

• 35:33Chris Ryan?

  And, so I can always hear like, oh, like, it seems like all the dialogue is dropped out except for the weekend.

• 35:39Andy Greenwald?

  And then you come running with your binoculars. Is there?

• 35:42Chris Ryan?

  And I kick in the door.

• 35:43Andy Greenwald?

  Kool-Aid man the room?

• 35:44Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 35:45Andy Greenwald?

  Is the reverse also true? Meaning, when Phoebe is in the other room and she hears System of a Down, she knows that the lionesses are in the tub together again?

• 35:52Chris Ryan?

  They don't do that. That's not, first of all, that's.

• 35:54Andy Greenwald?

  First of all, that's disrespectful.

• 35:56Chris Ryan?

  They'll play S-O-A-D.

• 35:58Andy Greenwald?

  Okay, so, sorry.

• 36:00Chris Ryan?

  Second of all.

• 36:01Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 36:02Chris Ryan?

  Those are two women who've given a lot to this nation, you know, and they're.

• 36:06Andy Greenwald?

  And frankly, they're a little dirty, right? So they're, they're considering more than just their own needs.

• 36:13Chris Ryan?

  And right when they're about to consummate their relationship, they get called back to duty.

• 36:15Andy Greenwald?

  No.

• 36:16Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 36:17Andy Greenwald?

  Who called them?

• 36:18Chris Ryan?

  The president.

• 36:19Andy Greenwald?

  The president was like, ladies, pick up the soap. Your country needs you.

• 36:27Chris Ryan?

  Sterling Point has been renewed.

• 36:28Andy Greenwald?

  You want, you want out of that. You just fucking.

• 36:31Chris Ryan?

  I'm waiting for Van. I don't wanna use all my good material on you.

• 36:33Andy Greenwald?

  Okay, fair, fair.

• 36:36Andy Greenwald?

  Can we edit Van into this?

• 36:40Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, let's talk Sterling Point for a second.

• 36:41Chris Ryan?

  Megan Park's YA series set in a lake in, you know, very scenic Canada, an intoxicating summer show, I will say. And this is now, a couple of summers in a, I mean, like, obviously, summer I turned pretty, I'm wearing my cousin's beach t-shirt today.

• 37:01Andy Greenwald?

  I thought you were hiding it.

• 37:02Chris Ryan?

  Well, I wore it because I wanted to make this point, which is like. We're now in like, fully like, Amazon puts a summer, like, teen post-high school, high school show on, and it seems to run shit.

• 37:16Andy Greenwald?

  Yes. My, the, the expression on my 13-year-old's face when I told her that the Outer Banks S5 screeners had dropped in our Netflix queue was memorable.

• 37:27Chris Ryan?

  Does she know about the Outer Banks prequel that's coming?

• 37:30Andy Greenwald?

  That will- Thank you for asking this.

• 37:32Chris Ryan?

  Go to the origins of the social divides of this town?

• 37:34Andy Greenwald?

  It's gonna actually finally explain class and how it functions in America. I texted her that information yesterday when she was at a friend's house. Stony silence. Stony, not even dots. But that's modern parenthood, you know? I guess I have to, she'll have to learn about class the old-fashioned way.

• 37:56Chris Ryan?

  From Scott Betson.

• 37:57Andy Greenwald?

  From Scott Betson.

• 37:59Chris Ryan?

  I don't really have a ton to say. I, I found the, Kaya, please feel free to jump on mic here.

• 38:04Andy Greenwald?

  Cause, cause Kaya, how, what was your, the whole season dropped, right? On, on Amazon?

• 38:07Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. And Kaya, where are you?

• 38:09Andy Greenwald?

  And how quickly did you?

• 38:10Speaker 06

  Um, I think I'm like four, four, five episodes in. They're like 45 minutes, so-

• 38:15Chris Ryan?

  And out of eight episodes, right?

• 38:16Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think I'm like the halfway mark.

• 38:18Chris Ryan?

  There's a lot of confusing storylines about parentage in this show. Like, there, there's a little bit of like, you could sometimes tell when these series start, or series start, and they're like, let's throw five plots out here, and let's see if, what three we want to continue in the second season.

• 38:38Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 38:38Chris Ryan?

  But there's like, an inheritance, there's a bunch of confusing, like, is this my half-sister? Or like, actually my sister, or what?

• 38:46Andy Greenwald?

  Because the main character played by Ella, Ella Rubin, is that right? Something like that?

• 38:50Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, I think so.

• 38:51Andy Greenwald?

  No way of us finding out, on air?

• 38:53Chris Ryan?

  Well, I'm trying to be less, I'm trying to be more present.

• 38:55Andy Greenwald?

  I appreciate that. Um, she is a-

• 38:58Chris Ryan?

  Annie. She's from, she's going into her senior of high school.

• 39:01Andy Greenwald?

  She has a twin brother. They are adopted.

• 39:03Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 39:05Andy Greenwald?

  And motherless. Their mother passed away. Their adopted mother, or so they think. And they are living a life of antiseptic luxury in a white box in New York. This was, this was my biggest bump on the show, that no one had ever set foot in until they showed up with set deck and a bowl full of pears.

• 39:22Chris Ryan?

  This really wasn't a, the problem for me.

• 39:24Andy Greenwald?

  This was a huge problem for me.

• 39:25Chris Ryan?

  Just to see school and you burn it, it was just-

• 39:26Andy Greenwald?

  My biggest problem is when you're like, teenagers live in this house, would you like a pear? Just, come on. Just scuff up the floors a little bit. And then she finds out maybe there's a mystery of her lineage, and her grandfather has left her an island, and she flies 45 minutes to Toronto. And-

• 39:45Chris Ryan?

  That's the first episode.

• 39:46Andy Greenwald?

  Then a lifetime of, a lifetime of adventure.

• 39:48Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, and she meets a lot of characters out there.

• 39:50Andy Greenwald?

  But your point, she doesn't know who's related to her? That's the question? Like, who her-

• 39:53Chris Ryan?

  No, she, she's inherited this island, but when she goes around asking people about her grandfather-

• 39:59Andy Greenwald?

  Right.

• 40:00Chris Ryan?

  There's a lot of like, oh, well, I knew him, you know, like-

• 40:02Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 40:02Chris Ryan?

  There's a lot of like, he seems to have, and there's just a lot of stuff about her mom, and, look, it's also a love triangle. And there's Rory and what's the other guy's name? The hot guy who flies?

• 40:13Andy Greenwald?

  We're crushing this.

• 40:14Speaker 06

  Ellis, Ellis.

• 40:14Chris Ryan?

  Rory and Ellis.

• 40:15Andy Greenwald?

  Do you know what it sounds like the show needs to sort of sort things out? Mr. Sinister. Cause his whole thing is genetics and who's related to who? So, do you know what I mean? Like Nathaniel Milbury from neighboring Ontario has arrived.

• 40:28Chris Ryan?

  Trying to build the perfect yuppie.

• 40:30Andy Greenwald?

  Yes.

• 40:33Andy Greenwald?

  Plenty of pears.

• 40:33Chris Ryan?

  But from what I watched, I, I found it very entertaining.

• 40:37Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, I, um, I had a different experience with it, which is, I, I was like, I'm excited to watch this with my 13-year-old, because she likes these Amazon shows. We didn't, we basically made it mostly to the end of the first episode. It didn't click with her yet. My guess is that she will then discover, like, it's maybe more, will be more of a solo journey later.

• 40:55Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 40:55Andy Greenwald?

  But the really positive thing about it was, um, we immediately launched into The OC. Now, I don't know if you, like, so this is Megan Park's show. She made the film-

• 41:05Chris Ryan?

  My Old Ass.

• 41:06Andy Greenwald?

  My Old Ass, a year or two ago.

• 41:06Chris Ryan?

  And I thought, and she's got another feature coming, and I thought, a bunch of the behind-the-scenes stuff I saw from Sterling Point, I really dig how she works, which I wonder is not dissimilar from the way Josh Schwartz worked, which is who you're gonna mention in a second, where she seems to very much like bring the actors playing these younger people into the process, so that the dialogue sounds realistic, that the, that the blocking feels real, that the, everybody, I think they're trying to make it feel as sort of like-

• 41:35Andy Greenwald?

  Organic.

• 41:36Chris Ryan?

  Organic as possible.

• 41:37Andy Greenwald?

  So this show was shepherded by, executive produced by Josh and his longtime producing partner, Stephanie Savage. They've both been on the pod a bunch. And, uh, it was really fun to use engaging briefly with that show, maybe to return to launch into The OC, which my daughter had never seen, and I had not checked out in 20 years, and it really holds up. It was really fun.

• 41:58Chris Ryan?

  Now, how long does The OC hold water for? Like, seasons-wise?

• 42:03Andy Greenwald?

  Canonically or in a re-watch?

• 42:06Chris Ryan?

  Because- Canonically.

• 42:07Andy Greenwald?

  I think canonically, it began to, I mean, they made something like 26 episodes their first year.

• 42:10Chris Ryan?

  I know, yeah.

• 42:11Andy Greenwald?

  It's outrageous. It's, you know, that is approaching three-plus seasons of Sterling Point in a very brief period of time that they made those episodes.

• 42:21Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 42:21Andy Greenwald?

  For, as someone who was, I mean, I, I first met Josh writing about the second season of that show for GQ, and it was in a bit of a lull, I would say creatively. And then, from what I remember, it rebounded closer to the end when, uh, when, when, um, future Terminalist star Chris Pratt joined in his first role.

• 42:42Chris Ryan?

  Right.

• 42:42Andy Greenwald?

  And, uh, summer went to brown, you know, so then I could finally like, kind of really feel seen on the show. And-

• 42:48Chris Ryan?

  It's important to you.

• 42:49Andy Greenwald?

  It's important to me. Representation matters, Chris.

• 42:53Andy Greenwald?

  I mean, it was, I mean, at that time, you remember, putting brown people on a Fox show was rare. So it was good.

• 42:59Chris Ryan?

  Did you, uh-

• 43:00Andy Greenwald?

  No, so I think, I think canonically, but, but again, it's really interesting watching this. This is something we always fall back on, but I do, I remain intrigued by it, that young people watch everything, no matter what era it's from, as if it was Summer I Turned Pretty. So, for example, the other day, she's like, oh, my friends are really into Modern Family. I guess I better start at episode one.

• 43:19Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 43:19Andy Greenwald?

  Like, it is a, and I was like, you don't have to have to.

• 43:22Chris Ryan?

  Season one's quite good.

• 43:23Andy Greenwald?

  Season one is great. She was laughing it up. But, um, but my point being, the consumption of the consumption of the-

• 43:29Chris Ryan?

  You don't have to watch this thing as if it's like, you know, I missed an episode of True Detective, now I don't understand the mystery.

• 43:35Andy Greenwald?

  That said, um, in The OC, when Carcosa emerged from a hillmouth in Newport Beach was a really weird dip. No, but I also think that time can be kinder to the growing pains of a very intense production period, in the sense that if you like The OC, you're going to like all 56 episodes, one way or another, maybe more, maybe some more, maybe some less, but you are not waiting for it, and you don't have that same expectation disappointment roller coaster, is what I'm perceiving, as she's plowing through the show.

• 44:04Chris Ryan?

  I think it would be a fun project for us, one of these days-

• 44:07Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 44:07Chris Ryan?

  To pick, not at random, but a season of TV or a show that we liked-

• 44:13Andy Greenwald?

  That we used to like.

• 44:13Chris Ryan?

  And be like, what is the experience of watching 22 episodes of this? Like, to just look at like, how the storytelling structures have changed, how the mechanics change, what, how does the show feel now? But just like, more from a nuts and bolts perspective, rather than like, oh, does Miami Vice season two hold up?

• 44:32Andy Greenwald?

  The degree to which, I mean, plot was everything. Plot was like spice on Arrakis, basically, in, in the classic TV days. We watched the first, I think, two or three episodes together, and then, uh, then by the time, by the time we were sitting back down on the couch, she was on episode like 15. And-

• 44:55Chris Ryan?

  Is she watching them at faster speeds?

• 44:56Andy Greenwald?

  No, but she was watching them, like, when the TV goes off, I think then it goes on the phone. And then she's just still grinding them. But, not even 15, by like, episode eight or nine, it's like Luke, who I last saw punching Ryan, you know, with his puka shell necklace, being like, welcome to The OC bitch, is now sleeping with Marissa's mother, dealing with the fallout of his father being gay, and like, friends with Ryan, and then Jimmy is now opening a restaurant with Sandy, and also sleeping with Caitlin's sister, who they discover as a stripper at an LA party that they're invited to, when Colin Hanks, playing a lightly metafictional version of Seth Cohen, invites them to. Dude, it's just November. Do you know what I mean?

• 45:38Chris Ryan?

  Right.

• 45:38Andy Greenwald?

  Like, that's how fast they had to service this beast.

• 45:41Chris Ryan?

  Right. Let's talk about another show-

• 45:42Andy Greenwald?

  Uh huh.

• 45:43Chris Ryan?

  That I think has legs to be long-running. It's already in its third season. It's on Netflix, and it's tires.

• 45:50Andy Greenwald?

  Okay.

• 45:51Chris Ryan?

  Uh, it is, uh, Shane Gillis and John McKeever's sitcom set at a tire shop in Valley Forge, Pennsylvania, a place-

• 46:00Andy Greenwald?

  A place you and I have been on many field trips?

• 46:02Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, field trips. I don't know that I've ever spent a lot of time in Valley Forge, but it's very recognizable to me. This is a show that, uh, I think had like, a fine first season, an excellent second season, and a very, very, so far, so good, like, on same level, third season. Um, here's what I like about it.

• 46:23Andy Greenwald?

  Okay.

• 46:24Chris Ryan?

  There is no reason for Shane Gillis to make this show. It's not 1995 anymore. Standard comedians don't need sitcoms to be their platforms. Shane Gillis can sell out the link, uh, so he's good. I think he's got more money than he probably knows what to do with. And there's no reason for him to do this show, and there's no reason for this show to be this good, or to look this good, or to feel this like lived in. And it's just fucking, I mean, aside from the fact that it's so fucking funny, I love the usual, what, what they're doing with this is the same thing that they do with great sitcoms, which is like, the first season is usually very star and 1A star dependent, and then

• 47:06Chris Ryan?

  as it goes on, like, you start getting more and more character beats for like, the tertiary, the secondary characters. And at least in the first few episodes of this season, my MVP is, is Stavi.

• 47:19Andy Greenwald?

  Yep, he's amazing.

• 47:20Chris Ryan?

  Who plays a, not rival, but like, another tire shop manager in the, in the Valley Forge Tire Shop-

• 47:28Andy Greenwald?

  Right.

• 47:28Chris Ryan?

  -family, who's, um, in recovery for sex addiction.

• 47:35Chris Ryan?

  And also trying to bring down Will and Shane, their, their shop.

• 47:40Andy Greenwald?

  Now, I don't want to begin our conversation by talking about factionalism, but is that okay for you to come out as pro-Stavi, being very firmly in the Adam Friedland camp?

• 47:48Chris Ryan?

  There's nothing, I think it's all love.

• 47:49Andy Greenwald?

  In the Come Town divorce?

• 47:50Chris Ryan?

  I think it's all love, yeah.

• 47:51Andy Greenwald?

  You sure?

• 47:51Chris Ryan?

  Yes, I think it was, I think it was a, a conscious uncoupling, not a-

• 47:55Andy Greenwald?

  There's nothing to read into this, because I know you're, you're deep in those streets.

• 47:59Chris Ryan?

  With Adam? Or the streets of Come Town?

• 48:01Andy Greenwald?

  Just the Come Town diaspora. The basin, if you will.

• 48:06Andy Greenwald?

  That's kind of where you've set up shop.

• 48:08Chris Ryan?

  Adam might be a guest on this show pretty soon.

• 48:11Andy Greenwald?

  Is that a threat?

• 48:12Chris Ryan?

  I'm just telling you. Adam and I want to talk about the Jose Mourinho documentary and the Pep Guardiola documentary. And I think this might be the platform for it.

• 48:21Andy Greenwald?

  I think that might be.

• 48:22Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, that's fine. What did you think of Tires, season three?

• 48:24Andy Greenwald?

  Well, I-

• 48:25Chris Ryan?

  Had you watched season two at all?

• 48:26Andy Greenwald?

  No, we watched season one and I didn't, it was like six episodes was dropped and I thought it was fine. And I didn't feel particularly motivated to go into it. Also, back then, you know, I was really, really a resistance lib. And I thought it was really important to signal that this show wasn't for me.

• 48:41Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 48:42Andy Greenwald?

  It's been a vibe shift, as we said at the top.

• 48:44Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 48:44Andy Greenwald?

  And now I'm-

• 48:45Chris Ryan?

  You had a lot of Amy McGrath stock that didn't pan out.

• 48:49Chris Ryan?

  You're upside down.

• 48:53Andy Greenwald?

  Who's your favorite lost cause that you gave money to?

• 48:56Chris Ryan?

  I don't know, but a friend who shall remain nameless.

• 48:59Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, I know who he is.

• 49:00Chris Ryan?

  Put some money into a billboard in Utah trying to bring down, I believe, Jason Chaffetz.

• 49:06Andy Greenwald?

  Sure. I'm still trying to figure out what went wrong with Sarah Gideon. Okay, that's my true detective season five.

• 49:13Chris Ryan?

  Going against Murkowski?

• 49:15Andy Greenwald?

  No, she was the one who ran against Susan Collins and like all the polls and like, act was like, we will make a difference. And I was like, well, it's New England. I'm sure they're reasonable. And Susan Collins won by like 16.

• 49:26Andy Greenwald?

  Somehow Susan Collins has returned. So, no, jokes aside about that, what I was, so I didn't engage with season two. I watched season three, or beginning of it, I watched the first few episodes and instantly like there are just some things that are very clear. And it's what you said, which is that if there is any orthodoxy or ideology of this show, it's of a classic workplace hang sitcom.

• 49:47Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 49:48Andy Greenwald?

  And in a very strange way, the comp that I was feeling after watching the first few was really more like, more to industry, which is, this show has nothing in common with industry, although they do talk about dicks a lot in both. It was really more that one of the pleasures of watching industry was watching people who were incredibly talented, who had a very strong point of view, figure out the capabilities of the vehicle they were driving. And watching the beginning of season three and seeing them discover in real time, how much mileage you can get out of putting some of these characters in upside down, unexpected situations. How much you can get just from a certain cutaway and a look at a certain time.

• 50:31Andy Greenwald?

  Just what you can generate from mining these little runners of possibility within characters that they now feel very comfortable playing, was really, really pleasurable. And then I got to the end of the first episode, the episode ends. And I would say if you are on the fence about the show, you could probably advise people on the right episode to start with. It might be season two.

• 50:50Chris Ryan?

  I would just go, I mean, I'd say season two is a market improvement on season one, which felt like almost an extended pilot.

• 50:58Andy Greenwald?

  Yes.

• 50:58Chris Ryan?

  Of them like being like, look, we can make this.

• 51:01Andy Greenwald?

  Exactly. And I thought that the season premiere of season three was lower on jokes. So if you're watching it to be like, I want to see a fun-

• 51:09Chris Ryan?

  You thought it was lower on jokes?

• 51:10Andy Greenwald?

  Than two and three of season three. Until

• 51:14Andy Greenwald?

  the episode ends, it says like, you know, McKeever or whatever, it says at the end, directed by, and then it cuts to a bit from 2021, in which a man working at the Valley Forge tires is like, I think I'm going to take off next week and go see my president give a speech. And Gillis is like, you should, you should definitely do that. You should go. And then the other guy's like, don't go into the Capitol. And Shane's like, it's your building, man.

• 51:41Chris Ryan?

  It's your house.

• 51:41Andy Greenwald?

  It's your house. You should go.

• 51:42Chris Ryan?

  It's the people's house.

• 51:43Andy Greenwald?

  And he's like, you know what? You should bring a gun. And the guy's like, yeah, it's my second amendment right. I'm gonna go. And he's like, you might need to stay longer than a day then.

• 51:51Chris Ryan?

  He was like, you can have the sixth off and you might need a few weeks after that.

• 51:57Andy Greenwald?

  It's really funny. So, so I-

• 52:00Chris Ryan?

  Stavi, Stavi's run in the first episode where he plays Dave and he's in a-

• 52:06Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, that scene is really good.

• 52:08Chris Ryan?

  Sex addict anonymous, not so anonymous class, session. And

• 52:14Chris Ryan?

  it's just really good, man. It's just really good work. You know, he's, he's in, he's, we haven't talked about it, but he's also in Tony.

• 52:20Andy Greenwald?

  He's amazing in Tony.

• 52:21Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 52:21Andy Greenwald?

  He's a great, I'm very pro Stavi. I think he's great in everything he is, he's in. But like, the thing that I was really appreciating in these few episodes was that Shane Gillis's, the reason I was, I really wanted to reengage was because the thing that has become my comfort binky in low moments is his couple of beers commercial from SNL last year, a year and a half ago, which I think is so funny, but also he's incredible in it. Like, I think he's a really good and funny performer. So I was eager to see this. And what I appreciated from these first three episodes was there is a self-awareness and kind of a sly winking about what people think of him and what he's actually doing. It's woven in these episodes in a way that I kind of, that I really appreciated.

• 53:05Andy Greenwald?

  It, your point about he doesn't need to do this, he definitely doesn't need to, but it does seem like a really, really successful way for him to communicate a fuller picture.

• 53:13Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 53:14Andy Greenwald?

  Than if he's doing one joke in a stand-up bit that gets aggregated, or if he's, or if he just, like any good citizen, attends like a sporting contest on the White House lawn. Like, who among us wouldn't do that?

• 53:24Chris Ryan?

  I just get the impression, the, the plus for him in this is that it used to be your stand-up, you start to develop an audience.

• 53:33Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 53:33Chris Ryan?

  Somebody from the network comes and says, what if we made a show called Shane? And it was about a guy who's, you know, like a substitute teacher, but is also like trying to get his life together in Philly or whatever. And it's like shot on a soundstage in Studio City. And instead of getting noted to death and all this stuff and all this process, it seems like more and more

• 53:56Chris Ryan?

  guys like Gillis can go ahead and be like, I'm making this show.

• 53:59Andy Greenwald?

  For sure.

• 54:00Chris Ryan?

  We're like outfitting a garage. We're gonna shoot all of this like on location.

• 54:04Andy Greenwald?

  He could have done this on YouTube.

• 54:05Chris Ryan?

  And then you can, and then I will sell it to you for an exorbitant price.

• 54:09Andy Greenwald?

  Yes.

• 54:09Chris Ryan?

  And like, my guy is directing all of it. We are writing it together. Like Steve Gerben, who probably would not be the lead of a sitcom.

• 54:17Andy Greenwald?

  Correct.

• 54:18Chris Ryan?

  Ordinarily, but is an extraordinary performer and character within the context of tires. Like, they made all those creative decisions and bet on themselves and it paid off. And I admire that.

• 54:30Andy Greenwald?

  I think the vibe is more, it's always sunny, not just because it's Philadelphia adjacent, but it's like, these guys were gonna do this anyway.

• 54:35Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 54:36Andy Greenwald?

  But I, but seriously though, like the thing, Steve Gerben as well, like the third episode in the third season, when they go to a women in business thing, and he's the happiest he's ever been with the more traditionally, like the, the women and the wives and he's wearing, he gets, they dress him up.

• 54:54Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 54:55Andy Greenwald?

  And he's very happy. And I genuinely feel this as a fan of comedies and why we like to watch these characters. The fact that he was really happy was a sign that the show knows what it's doing on a deeper level. It was not just pointing and laughing at him, although Shane shows up and points and laughs at him.

• 55:09Chris Ryan?

  Did you like the B plot of that episode where Shade and Cal are trying to revisit their old haunts? And it turns out to be a family fun center.

• 55:17Andy Greenwald?

  Yes.

• 55:18Chris Ryan?

  Can we get beers?

• 55:19Andy Greenwald?

  I felt like there was a real Patinson primetime kind of overlap possibility there in that scene. So you know I'm there for that.

• 55:25Chris Ryan?

  But he was like, this is the best, man. We're just two guys, rip some cigs and drink some beers and no wife to tell us what to do. And they're like, yeah, but it would be cool to have somebody who loved you.

• 55:34Andy Greenwald?

  What about when they go, but then when they're in the bathroom and they're at the urinals and Shane talks about how he feels like he's shrinking as he grows older. And when he was a kid, he thought he was Simba and gonna grow up to run the jungle. And then a small child emerges from the stall.

• 55:50Andy Greenwald?

  It's fucking, it's funny.

• 55:51Chris Ryan?

  It's funny, man.

• 55:52Andy Greenwald?

  It's funny, but it also is, like rhythmically, like they just know what they're doing.

• 55:56Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 55:56Andy Greenwald?

  And I, I really, it's smarter than I was gonna give you credit for.

• 56:01Chris Ryan?

  And nobody gives a shit, but it's a gauntlet, I think, thrown to like other comedians who are like, oh, do a sitcom. You know what I mean? Like, make something cool like this. Make something kind of-

• 56:08Andy Greenwald?

  With your pals?

• 56:09Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, make something with your pals. Like, like try and make it look interesting and make it feel lived in and, and we'll be watching.

• 56:18Andy Greenwald?

  But I, but do you know what I mean though? And I don't, I don't mean that there's anything like calculated about this in terms of like, he's not trying to like sane wash himself for like the, I think the vibe from the show is a pure, what I imagine.

• 56:31Chris Ryan?

  Cares at all about that.

• 56:31Andy Greenwald?

  That's what I'm saying. I think it is a pure expression of he's like, I want to make something with my friends. It is fundamentally insane that people put microphones in my face and ask me about things that I only think about when they ask me about them. And I'm going to run at that a little bit in a kind of a teasing and winking way and disarm you with what we actually end up doing.

• 56:49Chris Ryan?

  Right.

• 56:49Andy Greenwald?

  I think that there, he, cause he's not, it's not a successful or believable brand to be like, I don't know, I'm just a guy. But, I mean, that's, although honestly, you've been fucking crushing it. Kudos. But it's not for everyone. But I think that he, I think that it is cannier than people give him credit for it. And I really enjoyed it.

• 57:08Chris Ryan?

  I don't need to have an opinion on everything, do I?

• 57:10Andy Greenwald?

  No, wait, you mean politically or tires?

• 57:13Chris Ryan?

  Anything, yeah. Like when people are just like, I fucking hate when restaurants do that. I'm like, yeah, I've never thought about that.

• 57:19Andy Greenwald?

  First of all, I have text receipts that you do care about what restaurants do.

• 57:23Chris Ryan?

  Bad example.

• 57:23Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 57:26Chris Ryan?

  I guess I do a lot of opinions.

• 57:27Andy Greenwald?

  You have so many opinions. But I, I, I agree with you that I think that as the stunning fall of Alexander Vindman proves, we may be turning the page on an era when everyone has to be the fucking avatar.

• 57:39Chris Ryan?

  You said that. About the resistance is that we're talking about.

• 57:43Andy Greenwald?

  That's always been your thing.

• 57:44Chris Ryan?

  No, that's your bit. You're the one who brought Alexander Vindman up.

• 57:47Andy Greenwald?

  I mean, yeah, but you're the one who propped up his campaign.

• 57:50Chris Ryan?

  Well, I had to look for an interesting place to put my money.

• 57:53Andy Greenwald?

  You know what you care about? Electability.

• 57:54Chris Ryan?

  Um, let's wrap it up there.

• 57:57Andy Greenwald?

  You sure?

• 57:57Chris Ryan?

  I think it's been a cool pod and we have some other stuff to take care of for Monday's show. So

• 58:02Andy Greenwald?

  I think it's been cool.

• 58:02Chris Ryan?

  Thank you to Kai, Kaya and Sarah. And we'll be back on Monday with a full boat of lanterns, lionesses and Furioses.

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