Pod Insights Scam Goddess Guru Jagat's Yoga Cult w/ Gilli Nissim About this episode Comedy writer and self-proclaimed scammer Gilli Nissim (The Other Two) joins the Con-gregation to help Laci discuss Guru Jagat—aka white woman Katie Griggs—who's the kundalini yoga cult leader and conspiracy theorist subject of the new HBO docuseries "Breath of Fire." But first, Gilli teaches us how to scam your way to cash and prizes by running an old-fashioned scavenger hunt. DISCLAIMER: This episode will dishearten all fans of Yogi Tea and Kettle Chips. Stay schemin'!
This story was primarily reported by Hayley Phelan in her 2021 Vanity Fair profile "The Second Coming of Guru Jagat" and the new HBO docuseries "Breath of Fire" based on her writing.
Buy Laci's book “Scam Goddess: Lessons from a Life of Cons, Grifts and Schemes":
https://www.hachettebookgroup.com/titles/laci-mosley/scam-goddess/9780762484652/?lens=running-press
Follow on Instagram:
Scam Goddess Pod: @scamgoddesspod
Laci Mosley: @divalaci
Gilli Nissim: @time2getgill
Research by Kate Doyle.
SOURCES:
https://www.vanityfair.com/style/2021/11/the-second-coming-of-guru-jagat
https://www.max.com/shows/breath-of-fire/64f63cfe-94c5-4f33-835a-68915f1f4960
https://time.com/7096209/breath-of-fire-hbo-guru-jagat/
https://laist.com/podcasts/imperfectparadise/queen-of-conspiracy-theories
https://www.npr.org/2023/01/02/1146318331/yoga-guru-qanon-conspiracy-theories
https://www.marieclaire.com/culture/tv-shows/who-is-guru-jagat-breath-of-fire/
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/russell-brand-magic-amulet-wifi-airestech-tiktok-b2629426.html
https://www.3ho.org/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjMnhthTV-0&t=3157s
https://www.instagram.com/robotic_disaster/
Transcript 12,983 words · 7 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
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1:11 Speaker 01 Common cold, sinus infection, inflammation in the nose, flu or fluke-like symptoms, joint pain or sore throat may occur. Carry on with fewer attacks and ask your doctor about Extenture. Learn more at extenture.com or call 1-833-393-3678.
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2:17 Laci Mosley? West Pop and Congregation. It's your girl Scam Goddess, AKA Lacey Mosley, back with another installment of the podcast all about robbery, fraud, and those who practice it. Sometimes we love them, sometimes we hate them. You all know, parasocial girlies, I'm very what? Yes, say it to your headphones, AirPods, or whatever you got, excited, elated. We've got, okay, you know when there's a friend of the show? You know when there's an OG, someone that I've known for a long time? Like, it's gonna be a good ass ride. We've got a first time member of the congregation, but a long time member of my life. She's a talented actress, improviser, and writer
3:00 Laci Mosley? who's written for comedies like Pretty Smart, AP Bio, and the other two, which I fucking love the other two. She also co-hosted the Earwolf Presents Limited Podcast Series, We're Girls, which is, okay, y'all don't know this, but it's based on a live show that I've been to that is like crazy. I'm not even gonna tell y'all what happens, but it's... I love it. So, you can still check it out right now on Earwolf Presents, and get into their feed, cuz like, the shows are poppin'. Please welcome the hilarious Gilli Nissim.
3:35 Speaker 04 Yay, hi, Lacey. I am a card-carrying member of your life.
3:40 Laci Mosley? You are?
3:41 Speaker 04 I am a member. This is so fun. I was thinking about this. I had met you before this, but I really got to like, see you shine like in a new way was when we took musical improv together.
3:54 Laci Mosley? Oh my god, I forgot about that.
3:56 Speaker 04 Yes, your fans know you can sing from your like theme song. But my god, hearing it live, me and the rest of the bozos in that class were just like, we were like literally only ever singing if we were swinging our arm like a hoedown.
4:14 Speaker 04 And then you would get up and it was just like, I just wanna watch. Can I just sit down and watch? It was so fun. And they were funny songs too. What a blast.
4:22 Laci Mosley? I'm so happy you're here. The fans know you've been listening. I'm in Ireland. I'm very tired, so if this is trash on my end, sorry. I have specifically talked to Scott about the guests on this show while I'm in Ireland, being people who are so funny, so talented, and people that I love. Because I need some energy and I don't get it from PR guests sometimes. You know, I have to like put in more. I'm like, no, I need the bad bitches to pull up because I need to be lifted up. So I'm so happy that you're here. Like, I really appreciate it.
4:58 Speaker 04 Yeah, you got it. I mean, we'll, I don't have jet lag. I'll carry you through. I will grab your suitcase. We will run through the airport, you know, Home Alone style.
5:08 Laci Mosley? Yes, we will scam past TSA. We got all types of knives and drugs in our bags and what up.
5:17 Speaker 04 And it's all mixed in with the diarrhea medication, so the little narc beagles will never find it.
5:25 Laci Mosley? I got some ham wrapped around my drugs. The dogs ain't gonna get shit.
5:31 Speaker 04 Well, they're gonna eat the ham.
5:34 Laci Mosley? Facts. By the time they lay it out, though, I'm gonna be gone, so.
5:39 Speaker 04 You've absconded to Ireland. You're all the way gone.
5:42 Laci Mosley? Oh, absconded is such a beautiful word. That's what I wanna do. I've been going on some dates here because I was like, I might need some citizenship for real. For tax purposes, but also for like not going back to America purposes.
5:56 Speaker 04 Yeah, you are wise to consider it. I mean, aside from the fact that, you know, just in general Europeans are worldly and interesting. I had a cold when I was in Ireland and I was like, I think the Irish, I'm gonna be good for them. Like, my name sounds Irish even though it's not.
6:14 Laci Mosley? It does. Gilly? Like, come on now.
6:17 Speaker 04 Yeah.
6:17 Laci Mosley? That sound like Four Leaf, it sound like Shamrock. It's definitely. Colum.
6:23 Speaker 04 Colum.
6:24 Laci Mosley? One of my camera operators, I thought his whole time, this whole time, I thought his name was Colum. And then someone was like, no, it's Colum. I was like, C O L M? What are y'all doing over here? What are y'all doing over here? I'm writing thank you cards and I was like.
6:39 Speaker 04 Making up names.
6:40 Laci Mosley? Y'all making, y'all just straight making up names. I was like, this is why y'all are the black people of white people. Like, y'all is niggas. And I love it. Like, everything made up, so why not Colum?
6:53 Speaker 04 I do think they seem a little less like stuffy than British, so like.
6:57 Laci Mosley? Oh, they hate the British.
6:58 Speaker 04 I, I, I identify. And they hate being told they're part of the UK, which they are not.
7:05 Laci Mosley? No, they're not. And the British were their oppressors. And when I tell you that potato famine really hit their culture so hard because I can't get a goddamn meal without some potatoes. It'd be like pad thai and potatoes. Why are the potatoes here? They were like, no, we had a famine. We're never gonna do that again. We're never going back.
7:26 Speaker 04 I mean, potato does go with everything. That, that's like my mom who grew up poor. All she does is go shopping and then return things. Like, for the rest of her life, she's like, I'm going to the mall. And we're like, you're not gonna buy anything. You're going returning, aren't you? And she's like, yeah.
7:41 Laci Mosley? Going returning is crazy.
7:43 Speaker 04 Cause she'll never feel comfortable having spent the money, even if she has it. She likes the like experience of buying it, but then it's like, no, no, no, no, no. And has, has to like give it back. So it's like, yeah, you went without potatoes?
7:58 Laci Mosley? Getting high on returns is hilarious.
8:01 Speaker 04 She love the return.
8:04 Laci Mosley? Like she's buying it thinking about when she gonna come back with the receipt.
8:08 Speaker 04 Yeah, she has like a file in her big ass pocketbook that's just receipts. It's basically like a rolodex.
8:14 Laci Mosley? Sometimes for her extra kink, she gets a gift receipt.
8:18 Speaker 04 You don't even know what the item is. You gotta play roulette with that receipt.
8:23 Laci Mosley? I love this. So Gilli, we always ask on this podcast, what is your relationship with scams? Do you love them? Do you hate them? Have you ever been scammed? Have you ever run any scams that are past the statute of limitations? You can talk about that.
8:35 Speaker 04 Absolutely. I, so I, there's like too many to even say, so I've been thinking about this and I've chosen, I am a scammer. I have the mind of a scammer.
8:43 Laci Mosley? Yes, I do too.
8:45 Speaker 04 I don't have the heart, I hope. So I run scams all the time and this is the one I'm most proud of and I highly recommend, people do this, either yourselves or with children. I think it's an innocent scam.
8:59 Laci Mosley? That's what we like.
9:01 Speaker 04 Go to a middle-class or above neighborhood and then I think you are morally on a fine footing to do this.
9:08 Laci Mosley? You are.
9:09 Speaker 04 So, um, you actually mentioned scavenger hunts in that Taylor Swift episode and that got me pumped.
9:15 Speaker 04 That Swifty skimmer. Um, so I got introduced to scavenger hunts when I was a teenager. I was a freshman in high school and it blew our minds. It was like so much fun. We broke into groups. The parents of whoever's birthday it was made lists of household items that you could expect.
9:31 Laci Mosley? Oh, so these weren't school scavenger hunts. These were like-
9:34 Speaker 04 Off the clock for fun. It's actually also a really genius birthday party idea because it doesn't cost you anything if you're the one throwing it. So the list had really like mundane things like a roll of toilet paper, uh, like a newspaper section and a quarter and a pen and like just things you'd find around the house. And we split into groups and we're just like, you know, went wild into our middle-class neighborhood in Southern California in, in daylight to find all of these items. And it was like really, really exciting. And then the next day, it was a school day, me and my best friend, Elise Bagley.
10:12 Laci Mosley? Come on, Elise.
10:13 Speaker 04 We're like, God, that was fun. Come on, Elise. She's the best. You, I, I name dropped her very purposely. We were like, let's do it again. So we recreated a list and then went to people's houses as though we were one of many teams, even though it was just me and her hanging out after school. And then we realized that sense of urgency, which we know is a part of a lot of scams. It'll be like
10:40 Laci Mosley? Yeah.
10:41 Speaker 04 Really awful things where they're like, you know, to an old person, like your grandson's in jail and he'll be locked up if you don't wire us $10,000 by tonight. So we had like a mini version of that. When you show up at someone's store and you're like, we only need two things left before we win. People were really motivated to give us stuff.
10:59 Laci Mosley? To help you.
11:00 Speaker 04 And we were like, wow, we're not even part of a birthday party. What if we made the list only things we want? So we made a dummy list.
11:10 Laci Mosley? We need your refrigerator.
11:13 Speaker 04 Put it in my
11:13 Laci Mosley? So we can win. Hurry up. Real fast.
11:16 Speaker 04 Get the refrigerator in my pillow sack right now and we win. People were like excited to help us do this. And so it was a fake list with all the boring items crossed off. And every house we'd go and be like, do you have a quarter or Pop-Tarts? That's all we need to win. And we came home with pillowcases full of quarters and Pop-Tarts.
11:39 Laci Mosley? Oh, my God. Quarters and Pop-Tarts.
11:42 Speaker 04 We like actually thought to ourselves like, what can we ask for? A dollar feels too much. Like, they're not going to give us a dollar and a penny is trash.
11:50 Laci Mosley? Okay, the economy at the time, maybe a dollar was stronger. Because I'm like
11:54 Speaker 04 Oh, yeah, this is 20 years ago. So getting a quarter for a freshman in high school, like, that's an airhead at the school cafeteria.
12:03 Laci Mosley? Y'all could have gone for two quarters, but a quarter is enough that it's like, okay, that's not gonna hurt me. Like, I give you a quarter.
12:12 Speaker 04 When people improve upon my idea, I hope that they listen to you and they go for two quarters or a dollar. But we like divvied it up at the end and I feel like we each had $14 in quarters and like, so many Pop-Tarts.
12:26 Laci Mosley? You could have fed so many meters with this. Wow.
12:29 Speaker 04 So many meters. Couldn't drive.
12:31 Laci Mosley? Those meters were horny for y'all.
12:35 Laci Mosley? Okay, so y'all, I'm tired. It's gonna, my voice sounds crazy, whatever. We're going into historic hoodwinks. Y'all better just be glad that I'm making this goddamn podcast today because when I tell you, anyways. So, sometimes I have to fight with the congregation because they be fighting with me. So, we, we have to have a fight, a parasocial fight where they will fight back.
13:01 Speaker 04 It's like a parasocial sibling relationship of like, you know.
13:05 Laci Mosley? It is. And I'm the big sister. And can we have justice for big sisters? Because it's very ghetto.
13:11 Speaker 04 I, I can't even imagine. I, I would have cracked under the pressure. I'm a little sister and I think, I'm thirty seven years old and I will be a little sister until I die.
13:19 Laci Mosley? Kiwi, you don't give little sister energy.
13:22 Speaker 04 I have, I have, um, type A tendencies.
13:26 Laci Mosley? You give big sis energy.
13:28 Speaker 04 That's, wow, that's really nice. No, I'm usually the youngest in any group I'm in, but I can go toe to toe. Because, you know, immigrant parents, I feel like, it's just like, you can't fuck around too bad.
13:40 Laci Mosley? Oh, okay. The immigrant parents are seasoning, seasoning the sauce.
13:46 Speaker 04 Yes, I, I am a, uh, the youngest, but with some paprika, uh, on that.
13:52 Laci Mosley? Wait, where are your parents from?
13:54 Speaker 04 They're from Israel, which is pretty nuts, but, um.
13:58 Laci Mosley? But fair. Fair that that's where they from that you just gotta say.
14:02 Speaker 04 I mean, an American with Israeli parents? Whoa. That's a, a lot of evil governments.
14:09 Laci Mosley? In Hollywood?
14:12 Speaker 04 That's bad. Those are bad governments.
14:13 Laci Mosley? Listen, we live in a bad government too. It's very ghetto here.
14:17 Speaker 04 Yeah.
14:17 Laci Mosley? Like so extremely down bad. But I'm not over there right now. I'm trying to get citizenship. Like, okay, Liam fell through, y'all. So, I got back on Tinder and I'm, I'm trying to find another Irish.
14:31 Speaker 04 How's it going?
14:33 Laci Mosley? I'm having a good crack. I'm having a good crack.
14:36 Speaker 04 Having a crack?
14:37 Laci Mosley? I'm gonna find somebody. In America, crack is whack, but over here, crack is fun. That's literally what it means, so.
14:44 Speaker 04 I couldn't find the Irish that were my age range. I I'm interested in um men and women and non-binary folks and I I'm interested in all the folks.
14:54 Laci Mosley? I am too. I love the folks. I'm so into the folks.
14:59 Speaker 04 I love the folks. If you're a cute folk who thinks I'm cute.
15:03 Laci Mosley? Let's get into it.
15:05 Speaker 04 We can do something. We could really do something. But in Ireland, going out, everyone was either a painter with like flecks of white all over their clothes and had been doing this since like the dawn of houses, or like so old, but fun, or they were like nineteen-year-olds getting drunk.
15:26 Laci Mosley? Damn.
15:27 Speaker 04 Legally and just like tottering on heels. I was I was very I couldn't find the thirty-somethings. Yeah.
15:34 Laci Mosley? You're so right. It's like you're too young, you're too old, and then the normal people, it's like LA, like I talk about dating in LA, it's like parking in LA. Like you can't find a sane, normal person like without them leaving a relationship. They gotta be backing out of the spot and then you gotta be pulling into the spot. Like there's no like just sane, normal thirty-year-old on the street. Like, it's no.
16:04 Speaker 04 You just blew me away because it is so like parking. You are just screaming. I have gone around so many times, I am now seeing the same cars again and again. I want to just quit and go home, but instead, maybe I'm gonna pay for it. Maybe I'm just gonna throw down some cash because this is not happening on its own.
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16:58 Speaker 01 Sponsored by GSK, the makers of Extenture, Depamocumab ULAA. If your asthma keeps interrupting, it may be time to try something else. Extenture is an ultra-long-acting prescription maintenance treatment for severe asthma, eosinophilic type, ages 12 and older. It isn't for sudden breathing problems. Extenture is the first and only add-on treatment that can help deliver protection from asthma attacks with two doses a year. Just one dose every six months. That's a lot of time for everything in between. Serious allergic reactions can occur. Get help right away for swelling of face, mouth, tongue, or trouble breathing. Don't change or stop medicines, including steroids, unless told by your doctor. Report if you have a parasitic infection, common cold, sinus infection, inflammation
17:43 Speaker 01 in the nose, flu or flulike symptoms, joint pain or sore throat may occur. Carry on with fewer attacks and ask your doctor about Extenture. Learn more at extenture.com or call 1-833-393-3678.
17:58 Speaker 06 This is Iris Palmer from Against All Odds with Iris Palmer. There's something about the holidays that takes you right back to being a kid. Maybe it's waking up to the smell of baking, hearing "tuki tuki" playing in the kitchen, or seeing that one tio who insists it's not a party until he gets there. And you know what? He's probably right. For me, the best part of the holidays has always been the food. Not just because it's delicious, but because every dish has a story. Like the tamales your abuela spent all morning making, or the arroz con pollo that's been passed down from one generation to the next. Then there's that first bite when everyone's finally sitting down together. Que rico! And we can't forget the No meal is complete without delicious Coca-Cola on the table.
18:41 Speaker 06 That crisp, refreshing taste is the perfect pairing for those holiday favorites. And the beautiful thing is, traditions don't have to stay the same. Maybe you're hosting your first Friendsgiving, or bringing some pupusas to your coworkers so that they can get a taste of your culture. However you celebrate, it's the people and the little moments that make it special. So grab some Coca-Cola on your next grocery run and make room for a few more memories. These fruta, Coca-Cola.
19:10 Laci Mosley? So, let's get into my favorite segment, Historic Hoodwinks, where we will regale Gilly with a famous con caper group of criminals. We'll get her opinions all throughout. Maybe we love them, maybe we hate them. We'll see. So today, I have to note at the top, because y'all know we do not scam our journalists, most of the story is from a 2021 Vanity Fair profile by Haley Felon and the new HBO docu-series Breath of Fire, based on her reporting. So I have a content warning up here as well. There will be a brief mention of sexual assault.
19:49 Laci Mosley? I'll keep it brief, and I don't want to trigger anybody, so we'll move smoothly over it. However, I don't want you to think that it's not something that we consider. It's just that we want you to have fun here and not be sad about anything. So, here we go. A white woman named Katie Griggs changed her name to Guru Jagat and built a cultish celebrity yoga following, until a magazine profile exposed the fraud and abuse at the heart of the movement. So here we have a picture of her. Y'all see it on the Instagram. She's in a cross-legged position. She's in all white. It's giving...
20:36 Laci Mosley? Guru to me.
20:38 Speaker 04 It's giving every girl that went to UC Santa Barbara.
20:44 Speaker 04 Like where I went as well. I am not unlike Guru Jagat. I watched this doc and I'm so pumped that this is what we're doing.
20:56 Laci Mosley? Now she got a turban on in this next photo. Like she was really giving Guru here. She had a headscarf or a rap or something like she was really like, I'm ethnic.
21:07 Speaker 04 This, if this wasn't for a character in one of the many, many Star Wars TV spinoffs. It is so deeply not okay. It is so not allowed.
21:20 Laci Mosley? I mean, is it appropriation or appreciation? I don't know yet.
21:27 Speaker 04 Is there, is there a way for a white woman to wear a turban that isn't? Oh, boy, oh, boy, oh, boy.
21:33 Laci Mosley? Oh, boy.
21:34 Speaker 04 So tough.
21:36 Laci Mosley? It's not tough. You're right, it's wrong, but I like to support women's rights and their wrongs, so.
21:46 Speaker 04 Yes, fight for women's wrongs. I love that.
21:49 Laci Mosley? We need to fight harder for women's wrongs, okay? So Guru Jagat was a beloved LA yoga teacher and meditation guide who taught her premium price brand of spirituality. I can't say spirituality right now. To celebrities like Christy Turlington, Alicia Keys, Kate Hudson, and Russell Brand.
22:15 Laci Mosley? Jagat could chant in Sanskrit. And that's the tattoo that all the people who don't read Sanskrit love to get.
22:23 Speaker 04 It's a beautiful, beautiful looking tattoo. Who knows what it says, but it's beautiful.
22:29 Laci Mosley? Barbecue, party like it's 1999.
22:34 Speaker 04 In Sanskrit.
22:35 Laci Mosley? You don't even know, but it's beautiful. You could get booty hole in Sanskrit and it would look like booty hole. Like it would look so beautiful, so beautiful.
22:46 Speaker 04 You're so enlightened with your booty hole on your lower middle back.
22:50 Laci Mosley? It's like you lay out in the sun and let the sun shine into your booty hole. Why am I saying that? Anyway.
22:58 Laci Mosley? Like, anything in Sanskrit looks beautiful. So, she could chant in it, so the girls were impressed. You know they were. But, she also swore profusely and talked about sex and fashion in class. And her no BS style made her enormously popular. So it was like, she was like, "I'm a healer, but fuck them motherfuckers. I don't like that shit. And why does this Dior skirt cost eighteen hundred dollars? And I'll stab anybody." And, but also booty hole enlightenment.
23:34 Speaker 04 Let the sun shine into your booty hole.
23:38 Laci Mosley? Let the sun shine into your hole. And they were like, "We love this." We stan? I kinda get it, I'm into it. So she hosted online classes through subscription services, where twenty thousand subscribers paid at least nineteen dollars a month.
23:57 Laci Mosley? And for twenty thousand dollars, she would even become your mentor. So just twenty K, and she'll guide you personally.
24:07 Speaker 04 Uh, wait, nineteen dollars a month for yoga classes? Cause that's a steal. You, you could drop twenty on a class, on a single class anywhere in LA, and that would be cheap.
24:16 Laci Mosley? Big facts, big facts. I think that's how she roped them in. And then people who had more expensive jewelry on, or who had all that Lululemon or whatever, she was like, "You want that twenty thousand dollar mentor shit?"
24:28 Speaker 04 Smart to have a tier, smart to have a tier. Is there anyone through all time that you would pay twenty dollars to hang out with? I would be so embarrassed. Like, I wanna meet, if Jesus Christ was real, I wanna meet him because we're working together.
24:44 Laci Mosley? Jesus, put your chocolate on for free.
24:48 Laci Mosley? I'm not washing my or his feet with my hair like I'm not doing that. And I'm not hanging out with him for money.
24:55 Speaker 04 Yeah, I'm gonna pay money so he can wash my feet. I don't know, something's weird about this whole situation.
25:01 Laci Mosley? I don't know, the way you just phrase it, it sound like a service. It's like if Jesus is washing your feet, you might need to pay him twice.
25:08 Speaker 04 You're right, you're right. Your feet like never get dirty again somehow. You could be stomping through mud puddles and they're just like shiny.
25:15 Laci Mosley? Oh my gosh, no calluses, no hashiness.
25:19 Speaker 04 Maybe I would pay for that, but like I'd be so embarrassed. I, I, I just paying that much money to be in someone's presence is so antithetical to like how life is supposed to work. You're supposed, like people are supposed to come into your life and like, or you earn your way to be next to them. And it's just like so weird to me that it's like, I just want to sit next to this lady.
25:40 Laci Mosley? Well, if you earn the money and then you pay the money to the person, perhaps these people feel like I did earn it because I earned the money and then I paid them.
25:50 Speaker 04 Yeah, God wanted me to be prosperous and yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
25:55 Laci Mosley? Manifest destiny, God told us to steal. But before she was in a flowing robe and turban, being a guru, she was born on a Colorado farm in 1979 as just like a regular person. If eccentric white girl named Katie Griggs was a regular person, right? Katie started trying out new identities at an early age. Once when she was dating a man who called himself Zeus, she changed her name to Athena Day. Like, are you trying to be an R and B singer? Like Athena Day?
26:29 Speaker 04 I don't hate the name.
26:31 Laci Mosley? I don't either. Athena Day sounds like she sings sad R and B songs about men stealing change out her purse after they fuck. Like that's. Why did I wake up? And there was no money left in my cup. And my pussy was so banged up. Anyway, it's like.
26:56 Speaker 04 Musical improv, still got it.
26:59 Laci Mosley? I don't think that proved the standard that you set. However, we will move on. So her hippie lifestyle and interest in astrology led to her trying to like, try out a new thing that was like Kundalini yoga, which I've heard about. It's like a fringe type of yoga which practices like intense and sometimes painful breathwork and chanting. By 2011, she started calling herself Kundalini Katie. Okay, Kundalini is Katie.
27:31 Speaker 04 Yeah, it really sounds like you're offering something different.
27:38 Laci Mosley? By 2011, she started calling herself Kundalini Katie, right? And she saw her yoga teacher, Herjewan, who's also white, but his name is Herjewan,
27:51 Laci Mosley? as a father figure. Since her biological father had left when she was only one years old, Katie did have a stepfather named Rabbit, but apparently didn't see him in the same way. Maybe he was, oh my God, maybe she did see him and she ain't know she saw him because he got on a choker and he's giving Katie vibes. Good Lord, what's going on with his hair? It's like the precious, but also.
28:16 Speaker 04 Yeah, he really looks like Gollum.
28:19 Laci Mosley? The smoothie, the green smoothie and the precious.
28:23 Speaker 04 It's hard to say from a duck, but he did seem like a decent man. But also he's wearing a choker and has a dragon on a shirt, so it's a balance.
28:32 Laci Mosley? Honestly, I kind of love that. That's how I know he's a good person. He got on a choker, a dragon shirt. He said, I'm being myself.
28:39 Speaker 04 Yeah.
28:39 Laci Mosley? And I love that for him. I love that.
28:42 Speaker 04 I just love anyone doing something that's like, for some reason, we've decided is feminine and a non feminine person just like taking it on without.
28:51 Laci Mosley? Love it, always praise it. Non feminine people doing feminine shit, my favorite thing.
28:57 Speaker 04 We love, it shouldn't be a big deal, but it is.
29:00 Laci Mosley? Right, he comfortable, he look happy as hell. He drinking all his, oh, oh my goodness.
29:06 Speaker 04 That was a jump scare.
29:07 Laci Mosley? It was, to go back to the, why is his beard as white as, like as white as his turban? So this is Harji Wan. And Harji Wan had been searching for a young woman to front a yoga studio in L.A. So he was like, they were a perfect match. He couldn't be the face of it himself because he was an older white guy and he was also a convicted felon.
29:34 Laci Mosley? That's it. The older white guy is really the thing. Come on, identity politics, not the convicted felon.
29:40 Speaker 04 Very funny to include.
29:42 Laci Mosley? So he had served 24 months in prison for mail and tax fraud, right? That earned him the nickname Toner Bandit. Referring to like, obviously, printer toner. So he was printing out crime. And then, honestly, that's a white collar crime. You could definitely still lead yoga and be like, "I printed my pain." Like, you could do something. You'd be all right.
30:09 Speaker 04 Yeah.
30:10 Laci Mosley? But he wanted a skinny white woman.
30:12 Speaker 04 In the dockets, they mentioned that it's like, he was, it was early days of like phone sales. Like, hello, can I interest you in? And they were selling toner and then they just like, never sent it to people.
30:27 Laci Mosley? This was probably, we did an episode about a telemarketing scheme with this guy named Sam and they, they did like, spread out into toner at one point. So maybe that was like around the same time period.
30:43 Speaker 04 And everyone was like getting their desktop computers at home and like, we needed toner so bad. I had to print out pictures of the Backstreet Boys stacked.
30:52 Laci Mosley? My parents were horny for toner.
30:55 Speaker 04 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
30:58 Laci Mosley? So at Harji Wan's request, Guru Jagat, or I'm just calling her Katie. I can't even say that no more. It's so goofy. She, so she founded the yoga studio Rah Ma in Los Angeles with sister studios in Colorado, New York, and Mallorca? Um, okay.
31:20 Speaker 04 España.
31:21 Laci Mosley? Espa- España, España. So.
31:25 Laci Mosley? Katie's mother and stepfather provided the initial $20,000 that helped her get into the like, the whole studio game, got it off the ground, right? She focused on self-help and successfully used social media to build a following of mostly young women who felt unfulfilled in terms of money, their relationships, and their jobs. So she getting on here giving inspirational quotes, probably. She was like, "My inspirational guru is Glorilla." She like, "At the end of the day, the day gon' end." And I'm like, "Yes, at the end of the day, the day gon' end. Amen."
32:06 Speaker 04 Where's the lie? Where is the lie?
32:08 Laci Mosley? "Every day the sun don't shine, that's why I love tomorrow." Like, yeah, cuz what's gonna happen tomorrow?
32:16 Speaker 04 I'm inspired.
32:17 Laci Mosley? I love Glorilla. I'm inspired. That's my, that's my hood inspirational, like, put it on in the morning, like, thank you.
32:26 Speaker 04 I get my inspiration from a dog named Coconut, so you're doing a lot better than I am.
32:32 Laci Mosley? I don't know if I am. I had to do a photo shoot for this show out here, and everybody got to pick their music, and I picked Glorilla, and then I didn't realize because I am black that there were like so many N-words in the songs, so it would be like, "Turned up with my niggas, turned up with my bitches." And I'm in front of all of these white Fox executives, and if I could've turned red, I would have. I was like, "Can we, um, can we turn this off? I'm so sorry."
32:57 Speaker 04 That is weird and sucks to be the only person of color in the room, but that's their problem if they don't like it.
33:03 Laci Mosley? I could've really gave. I could've stood on business. I should've stood on business. But then when I came back out, the next actor had on Phil Collins, and I was like, "I can't, you know what?"
33:12 Speaker 04 Okay, maybe I made the right call.
33:14 Laci Mosley? Yeah, I was like, "Maybe I made the right call." Like, "Feel it in the air tonight, oh lord." I'm like, "Oh, okay, okay, fine, fair." So, the followers that she had gathered, who, you know, obviously needed her inspiration and her quotes set to a sunset background, would practice for four to six hours a day, taking cold showers and trying to get friends and family to join.
33:42 Speaker 04 That's too long.
33:44 Laci Mosley? Also, like-
33:46 Laci Mosley? I've been doing cold plunges like every weekend, jumping into the sea. There is something very like revitalizing about that. And it's also like something that
33:54 Speaker 04 Sure.
33:54 Laci Mosley? your nervous system picks up on and makes you high. It makes you vibrate and tingle. So, good scam to add to the cult.
34:04 Speaker 04 It's a great scam and so many cultures, first like ancient cultures do it in some practice. So it's like, yeah, there's gotta be something to it. But four to five hours of yoga that you're paying for a day?
34:16 Laci Mosley? Four to fi- like, y'all don't got jobs?
34:17 Speaker 04 Too long. Yeah, they must not.
34:21 Laci Mosley? Forty-five hours?
34:22 Speaker 04 Forty-five hours of any self-help is like, you maybe need more help than this can provide. Like, you gotta fit that into one to two and then go live a life.
34:32 Laci Mosley? It's giving rehab. He was like, this is my rehab. And that's fine. That's fair and fine.
34:38 Speaker 04 If you need it, do it.
34:40 Laci Mosley? Do it. So one of Rahma, that's the studio, remember that she created because of her influencer daddy, who's not really her daddy, who's a white man who got a white beard and a white turban. So, one of Rahma's bestselling programs was its business school. You know, when you go get a yoga class, you also go to business school. Honestly, this could get a lot of black women. I had a tweet go viral and I was like, are you a black woman at a, like, are you tired and exhausted as a black woman? Have you thought about grad school? Like, we let her go back to school. We love it.
35:18 Speaker 04 It's actually genius if like, if you could do yoga while also learning about like investing and like business strategy, that would be so.
35:28 Laci Mosley? Economics, yoga, operations, yoga.
35:35 Laci Mosley? Honestly, probably would have helped me get through business school better.
35:38 Speaker 04 No, I mean, like do them at the same time, straight up. Like, make sure your hips are over your feet and a C D.
35:46 Laci Mosley? And now this is how FedEx distributes packages around the world.
35:52 Speaker 04 Breathe in, it's a system relying on UPS. Breathe out, but there's also a federal.
36:00 Laci Mosley? A squared plus B squared equals C squared.
36:06 Speaker 04 There's your seventh business.
36:12 Laci Mosley? So the school consisted of virtually like online workshops, right? In which Katie would give spiritual advice geared towards people trying to climb the corporate ladder. So exactly what you said. So Katie was so successful that she launched two clothing lines. And now, Katie, you all over the damn place. Now we're doing clothing lines. Robotic disaster, which makes spiritual streetwear and guru. Hate having to say this again, jugget collection. A line of ethereal white dresses that cost $300 each. What do you think about this fashion, Gilly?
36:50 Speaker 04 Oh, I, I'm a, you know, usually a big proponent in everyone wearing whatever they want. We're looking at two big sweatshirts. It looks like a bunch of options, but it's really just big sweatshirt belted. Big sweatshirt loose. Big sweatshirt white, big sweatshirt in pink.
37:09 Laci Mosley? And she was like, put some belts on it and some boots and, but it's still sweatshirts, like.
37:16 Speaker 04 The funny thing about fashion to me, and I'm really struggling. I'm in like a transition of like, what, who am I? What do I wear? If I'm queer, do I have to change how I dress? Like.
37:26 Laci Mosley? So you, you do have to let the girls know.
37:28 Speaker 04 Yeah, I, I, I don't want to not.
37:30 Laci Mosley? But it depends on who you are. If you're more masked, you gotta like get a sports bra and a lot of black long sleeve shirts.
37:38 Speaker 04 Exactly, right? And I need underwire, Lacey. I need the support. I can't just put on a, a sports bra. I wish. I, it, it's that thing where it's like, yeah, you want to signal who you want to attract, but you also, I don't want to like change everything. That feels fake too. But there's just something funny to me of like, if you buy this, this clothes, if you buy these clothes, now you're a yogi. Like that's just a scam. That's bad scam. Instead of it just being like, this is cool stuff. I had a cool idea and I think you'd like to wear it. But now it's like, oh, you gotta buy the class, you got, gotta buy the big sweatshirt.
38:12 Laci Mosley? Skinny ass white women in big ass clothes.
38:16 Laci Mosley? So she would say, everything is connected. Nothing happens without a purpose and nothing is what it seems. Deep.
38:26 Speaker 04 Deep but unoriginal.
38:27 Laci Mosley? Kitty pool deep.
38:31 Speaker 04 I feel like Coke, Coconut, the dog that I listen to has also said some stuff like that. That's all I'm saying.
38:38 Laci Mosley? It is. What it is.
38:42 Speaker 04 Wow, okay, okay.
38:43 Laci Mosley? No, Gillie, hear me out, hear me out. Be where you are.
38:49 Speaker 04 No, you're right. Here's at least nineteen dollars a month.
38:53 Laci Mosley? Give it to me right now. Venmo me right now, okay? Sell me for that, cuz that was deep as fuck.
38:59 Speaker 04 That was good. I'm changed.
39:01 Laci Mosley? I'ma give y'all another one. Life is for the living.
39:07 Speaker 04 Oh my god, that's so true.
39:09 Laci Mosley? Put an air horn in there.
39:15 Laci Mosley? You can only be where you are.
39:19 Speaker 04 Oh my god.
39:20 Laci Mosley? That's kinda heat. Like, I might need to start this kinda cook. Cuz I feel like-
39:25 Speaker 04 The voice you're doing, it's like the soothing power voice, like, I'm leaning in, you know, I wanna hear. You got me.
39:33 Laci Mosley? I talk so soft because life is so hard.
39:37 Speaker 04 Wait, something really weird just happened. I didn't do anything, but suddenly I'm wearing a big ass sweatshirt. What the fuck, Lacey? What did you do?
39:45 Laci Mosley? Get the big titties in that sweatshirt, okay?
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41:22 Speaker 06 This is Iris Palmer from Against All Odds with Iris Palmer. There's something about the holidays that takes you right back to being a kid. Maybe it's waking up to the smell of baking, hearing "tuki tuki" playing in the kitchen, or seeing that one tio who insists it's not a party until he gets there. And you know what? He's probably right. For me, the best part of the holidays has always been the food. Not just because it's delicious, but because every dish has a story. Like the tamales your abuela spent all morning making, or the arroz con pollo that's been passed down from one generation to the next. Then there's that first bite when everyone's finally sitting down together. Que rico! And we can't forget the finishing touch. No meal is complete without delicious Coca-Cola on the table.
42:06 Speaker 06 That crisp, refreshing taste is the perfect pairing for those holiday favorites. And the beautiful thing is, traditions don't have to stay the same. Maybe you're hosting your first Friendsgiving, or bringing some pupusas to your coworkers so that they can get a taste of your culture. However you celebrate, it's the people and the little moments that make it special. So grab some Coca-Cola on your next grocery run and make room for a few more memories. Disfruta Coca-Cola.
42:36 Laci Mosley? So after the pandemic started, Katie turned a corner. She said that artificial intelligence was controlling our minds. It suggested that meditation was a way to take back control. She defied local pandemic stay at home orders in order to practice maskless in person sessions in her classes and on her podcast. God damn it, everybody, we gotta take the mics out of the community. I'll volunteer mine if we can help save one, teach one. So in her classes and on her podcast, Reality Riffing, that's her podcast, Reality Riffing, which I feel like we've been reality riffing.
43:18 Speaker 04 Yeah, we're guests on her podcast even when she's not recording.
43:23 Laci Mosley? Right now, she scammed us. She suggested on her podcast that coronavirus was being sprayed in airplane chemtrails, which was a very popular theory.
43:36 Speaker 04 Oh, you can just combine conspiracies now? Corona and the chemtrails? That's funny. And the earth is flat because Bigfoot stomped it down. And so how?
43:47 Laci Mosley? Think about that. Think about that. So she also began interviewing controversial people with fringe beliefs, right? So let's watch a clip from her podcast where she shares an interesting theory about the start of the Vietnam War.
44:05 Speaker 01 Have you heard this theory that?
44:08 Laci Mosley? Oh, she's got a good voice.
44:09 Speaker 01 That there was kind of a tear in time space and some of the type of beings that were coming, extraterrestrials that are coming in and out of Antarctica, were coming, showed up at the big temple in Cambodia. And this is actually what the Vietnam War was about. I've only seen a couple of things about this, but I found the whole theory very fascinating.
44:34 Speaker 04 Oh, my God, that was a full word salad. I think she's talking about Angkor Wat, which is the temple. And Antarctica.
44:43 Laci Mosley? Have you ever, you know, when you're smart, you say um a lot because um you think before you speak, so um you gotta take a pause.
44:52 Speaker 04 Yeah, the ideas are coming um at me so um fast that, oh, um, I gotta, I can't even channel.
44:59 Laci Mosley? This has 31,000 views, almost 32,000 views.
45:03 Speaker 04 Lower than I expected and I'm kind of relieved. All right.
45:10 Speaker 04 That's good news for once. That was so confusing. How, what does all this have to do with yoga?
45:20 Laci Mosley? Let me tell you, um, big sweatshirt, um, little person, um, big world, um.
45:27 Speaker 04 It's a great show. That was really fascinating. I wish, I wish I believed in conspiracy theories. I think it would be comforting to a certain extent.
45:38 Laci Mosley? I do too. And like Katie became a prime example of what experts call the wellness to QAnon pipeline. As we just saw, um, um.
45:52 Laci Mosley? You just gotta say, um, y'all. I think that's really how you prove it to like to everybody that you're a genius. I think it's just, um, and like really low voice. Don't raise your voice because you don't have to because you're so smart. I'm gonna stop raising my voice. The rest of this podcast, I'm gonna do like this, um.
46:10 Speaker 04 It's, it's really getting me. I'm fully in.
46:15 Laci Mosley? So it seemed like COVID had radicalized Katie overnight, but something just as important to her was happening at the same time. And this is where the content warning comes in.
46:28 Laci Mosley? The R word and assault allegations against saint like founder of Kundalini Yoga. Practitioners call Kundalini Yoga an ancient technology, but it was actually a yoga practice and a business. We, we've seen the, the business and the yoga founded and kind of like invented in the 1960s by a former customs agent named Bhan, who immigrated from India to the US.
46:57 Speaker 04 We love customs agent getting promoted all the way to guru.
47:01 Laci Mosley? All the way to guru. Fast track to guru. How do we fast track to guru? Cause I really wanna get there.
47:08 Speaker 04 Um, I have a heart for scamming.
47:12 Laci Mosley? I need a church. I need to be tax exempt. I'm tired.
47:15 Speaker 04 Yeah, that's, that's genius.
47:17 Laci Mosley? So Bahan combined elements of Sikhism, Hinduism and Buddhism, plus new age spiritualism and futuristic jargon. He's like incorporating all of these things and he also monetized it as the three HO or the healthy, happy, holy organization. So the three H's are healthy, happy, holy. And then the O is not ho, is organization.
47:45 Speaker 04 What, like, what from customs agents did he like pull from here? Like, he's just pulling this stuff out of his ass, it sounds like?
47:55 Laci Mosley? I mean, listen, you gotta have a brand. You give people some words, you give them a little brand. It's giving legit to me. I'm a three ho. You're not a three ho?
48:06 Speaker 04 It's very smart to sort of like imply Christmas to people. Like, ho, ho, ho, that makes me think of Santa. Santa makes me think of Christmas. Christmas makes me think of happiness. Happiness makes me think-
48:18 Laci Mosley? And healthy, happy, holy?
48:20 Speaker 04 And healthy, happy, holy and-
48:21 Laci Mosley? Cause that's Christmas. Merry Christmas. So Kundalini became a multimillion dollar empire with its own private security firm, one still contracted to do work by ICE.
48:34 Laci Mosley? Woo, ICE about to be lit. Sorry, America. So Bahan-
48:40 Speaker 04 Wait, that ICE?
48:41 Laci Mosley? Yeah, the ICE.
48:42 Speaker 04 Jesus Christ.
48:43 Laci Mosley? The picking up the immigrants ICE.
48:46 Speaker 04 Bad ICE.
48:47 Laci Mosley? Bad ICE, bad ICE. Not Dintin Ice. We love Dintin Ice.
48:50 Speaker 04 No, that's good ICE.
48:51 Laci Mosley? Sponsor the podcast, Dintin Ice. Cool brother.
48:56 Speaker 04 Whoa.
48:57 Laci Mosley? So Bahan also founded the Yogi tea brand, which you can still find in any grocery store. Oh my God, I have this in my house.
49:05 Speaker 04 Me too. It's my favorite green tea. It has like extra flavor to it. You can steep the bag for the whole day and it doesn't taste too like earthy or dirt like.
49:18 Laci Mosley? I have throat coat bedtime. These are delicious. I've been drinking.
49:23 Speaker 04 You have the whole line. You have the whole line of cult teas.
49:28 Laci Mosley? I've been drinking cold, oh my God, for years.
49:31 Speaker 04 This is literally the most shocking revelation. It never occurred to me that a successful business that I'm patronizing in a Whole Foods.
49:39 Laci Mosley? Fuck.
49:40 Speaker 04 Could come from a cult. Like, what if I'm eating Scientology crackers?
49:48 Laci Mosley? I love Scientology gum. Okay, Zenu really. His winter mint perfection. Okay?
49:55 Speaker 04 Yeah, cuz that, we're talking winter on Mars too. That's like space mint. That's as minty as we can go.
50:01 Laci Mosley? It's also sea mint cuz you know they got.
50:05 Laci Mosley? That one does taste like concrete, but it's like the sea org, the sea mint. You feel I'm going. They also have like Tom Cruise's sexuality, which is the gayest of the gums and.
50:19 Speaker 04 That's such a good gum.
50:22 Laci Mosley? Have you ever had gay gum? Gay gum is delicious.
50:24 Speaker 04 I think so. It kind of makes everything that I say sound a little sassier.
50:29 Laci Mosley? Just like a little like. Love gay gum.
50:34 Speaker 04 Snapping my gum and reading a bitch to filth, you know?
50:38 Laci Mosley? Bitch.
50:43 Speaker 04 It's the best tea. It's literally.
50:45 Laci Mosley? It's so good. This is upsetting. I'm not gonna stop drinking this tea. I'm sorry.
50:50 Speaker 04 When I buy this tea, this is the tea I get when I'm working in a writer's room and I'm like, someone else is buying the snacks? Well, please get me my Yogi green tea with immune support.
51:00 Laci Mosley? Has it been supporting our immune cuz now he's such a liar. I don't know.
51:09 Laci Mosley? I'm down bad. This is actually gagging me really hard. Um, so, but Hans teachings were similar to the prosperity gospel, which I've talked about and I will talk about in the television show. Y'all see. Woo, I got the date wrong on another episode. It's actually coming out sooner than February. So I'll be down bad promoting, but y'all will be up. So he was doing prosperity gospel, basically. And a belief that a higher power is a part of prosperity gospel, obviously the gospel part. But it's also the belief that a higher power is going to give you financial gains if you are faithful.
51:52 Laci Mosley? So that's all. It's like give, give, give to the spirit God finance man. And he will like reap basically what you sow. And obviously we know it's a scam.
52:06 Speaker 04 My sisters had the same logic where if I brought them snacks from the kitchen all the way up to their bedroom, then I'd get to hang out with them and their friends. And I brought them a lot of snacks and I never got to hang out with their friends.
52:23 Laci Mosley? Okay, now you're a little sister.
52:24 Speaker 04 Yes, it's it's straight up like bullying big sister logic. To say like, if you give me money, you'll get money. I swear, I swear, do it.
52:36 Laci Mosley? Have you not got money? It's because you're not giving me enough money. You gotta really match it, the energy, and then you gonna get it.
52:42 Speaker 04 Yeah, you're not giving me all your money, which is the problem. So no problem. I fixed it for you.
52:48 Laci Mosley? You need to be free of your money.
52:53 Speaker 04 And because I'm such a good person, I'm willing to take it from you.
52:58 Laci Mosley? Right, listen, I'm I'm helping you. I'm I'm like unburdening you from your money.
53:09 Speaker 04 Oh my god.
53:10 Laci Mosley? That's how I'm gonna build all of this from now on. I'm like, I'm burdening you. Let me take that money off your hands. That money weighing you down. That money heavy.
53:19 Speaker 04 Oh, you look so tired from holding all that heavy money. Well, I'm pretty strong. I've been doing a lot of downer dogs, so.
53:26 Laci Mosley? Eh, I can hold it for you.
53:31 Laci Mosley? I think this is a good plan. Do we start a call? Do we like, what's the next Kundalini? Like, they got health, happiness, holiness, and organization. We can build on that. So we got those four.
53:43 Speaker 04 I mean, do we finally put the hoeing in ho, ho, ho?
53:46 Laci Mosley? We do. We put the hoeing in because like fucking is essential. And then fucking is freedom. So then we got another phrase that we work with. And then, um, um, burden yourself from your money. That's definitely a part of it. Um.
54:07 Speaker 04 Ooh, let me hold that for you.
54:10 Laci Mosley? Let, oh, let me hold that for you is so good. And we can expand that to everything. Let me hold that for you. Let me hold space for you.
54:20 Speaker 04 Yep.
54:21 Laci Mosley? Yoga, space.
54:27 Speaker 04 The crazy thing is, is like, we could probably talk about it openly and still get people to sign up.
54:33 Laci Mosley? Oh, hell yeah. Like, we.
54:35 Speaker 04 Oh, I hate that.
54:36 Laci Mosley? I love it. I, I, at some point, I have to open a church. I gotta get out of these taxes. So.
54:42 Speaker 04 Yeah.
54:43 Laci Mosley? Th- this called the congregation for a reason. We will start having service. Don't worry about that.
54:48 Speaker 04 Step one. It's step one in tax exemption.
54:51 Laci Mosley? Yeah. Honestly, does a church have to be physical? Cause we release every Tuesday, which is like churches on every Sunday. So technically, Scott, look into that. Cause I really feel like we could probably go ahead and get that, you know, exemption.
55:07 Speaker 04 That's a really good question and COVID will probably help you there because churches were operating. I feel like people were doing Zoom service. So it's like they didn't lose their exempt status.
55:17 Laci Mosley? Hmm. And COVID is not gone. There's new flus. There's new types of COVID. So I'm keeping the community safe by us talking on Zoom. And I'm preaching. I just have a guest pastor every week. You are my guest pastor, Gilly.
55:33 Speaker 04 Yes.
55:34 Laci Mosley? Okay.
55:34 Speaker 04 From the Church of Coconut Rice Bear, the dog that I follow on Instagram.
55:39 Laci Mosley? Amen. So let's get to it. So Bahan, you know, is teaching prosperity gospel. His followers created businesses for shoes, body scrubs, and granola bars, also essential oils like we're talking about before. And even the popular snack food kettle chips. I, I, I love kettle chips. What's happening?
56:01 Speaker 04 Uh, this is really something that sets apart this scam. Cause I feel like there's a lot of really sad stories of like, we made all of, all of our members, like they signed over their cars, their homes, like that is all so, so sad and so serious. I've never heard of a cult that started so many successful businesses that are in my pantry as we speak.
56:24 Laci Mosley? Now, the salt and pepper kettle chips, are you playing with me right now?
56:28 Speaker 04 Right next to the Yogi tea. It's a really good chip. They actually made something different than the other chips.
56:36 Laci Mosley? I've been in this cult for so long and I didn't even know. Nobody told me.
56:40 Speaker 04 I know. This is devastating news. Everyone at home, open up your pantry.
56:46 Laci Mosley? And realize that you're in a cult.
56:48 Speaker 04 And find out whether or not you are also in this cult.
56:52 Laci Mosley? You are. Fast forward.
56:54 Speaker 04 You are not alone. You are not alone.
56:56 Laci Mosley? You are not alone. Those to me, Michael Jackson. Um, wow. This is, I've been covering my mouth with my hand because I cannot believe how deep I am in this cult. I, I love Bahan anyways. Um, I really love him. So these companies, they grew rapidly with healthy profits because 3HO members worked for free as a form of selfless service. He unburded them from wages.
57:26 Laci Mosley? Okay.
57:28 Laci Mosley? So constant warning again. We're back now to what actually was going on with Behan. So Behan faced accusations of sexual assault and sexual misconduct and financial wrongdoing. Duh, um, duh to all of them, but you know, obviously he wasn't paying people. So this was before and after his death. Oh, my God, he dead. Okay, so we can still have kettle chips because he dead.
57:55 Speaker 04 Yeah.
57:56 Laci Mosley? Oh.
57:57 Speaker 04 Does that mean they're like, like ding dong, the wicked witch is dead, we can eat kettle chips again?
58:02 Laci Mosley? We don't, y'all don't give up your salt and pepper, okay? You don't have to give up your salt and vinegar, girls. He dead.
58:11 Speaker 04 I'm sorry if this is so obvious, but like I just have to express this thought. And I feel like everyone else is thinking it too of like, why do people with cults also want to have criminally immoral and illegal sex? Why is that part of it?
58:32 Laci Mosley? They get high.
58:33 Speaker 04 Yes.
58:33 Laci Mosley? Because when you're a scammer, you go further. And so depending on what your like kink is with scams, you are going to be driven for more and more and more because you keep getting away with so much. So, so many people in power become sexual deviants because the power made them high. And then now they have so much power, they can't even like, that's not working for them anymore. So they have to have power in another way and.
59:03 Speaker 04 That is maybe the best explanation I've ever been given. And I'm gonna really have to, when we're done, go and like, sit in the bathtub and think about that.
59:10 Laci Mosley? Oh, no.
59:13 Speaker 04 Because it's just like, the cult thing seems fun. It's always fun in the beginning. We're doing yoga, we're getting, everyone's getting money. And it's just like, you had to go and turn it into this, you fucking sicko.
59:24 Laci Mosley? And he even tried to like yoga thighs his assaults. He said that in a quote. Sexual assault, the, the, the R word is what he said, um, is always invited. So he was like, I'm really gonna blame the victim, like, real bad, real bad, but like, in a, in a, like, healthy way. Like, bitch, I'll fucking kill you. I'm glad you're dead, so I don't have to do that.
59:50 Speaker 04 Yeah.
59:50 Laci Mosley? And I can still eat kettle chips, cuz you dead.
59:54 Speaker 04 I hope they buried you in an uncomfortable pose, you piece of shit.
59:57 Laci Mosley? Also, this is the second episode in almost six years where I have found out somebody is dead. At the end and been elated. I was like,
1:00:05 Speaker 04 Yay!
1:00:07 Laci Mosley? Yay! Yay, you're dead, bitch. Like, you need to be dead. You should've been dead earlier. Like, honestly, death came too late. Death was not on time. And we need death to be more punctual for raggedy ass bitches like you.
1:00:21 Speaker 04 They usually, like, go to jail for six months and then, like, in a white collar prison and then come back selling, like, leggings or something. So it's like, this is great. It's great.
1:00:31 Laci Mosley? It's amazing. Like, death is the ultimate cancel culture, okay? You dead. Yay!
1:00:38 Speaker 04 Yeah, cancel is heartbeat, baby. Cancel that heartbeat.
1:00:42 Laci Mosley? Yes.
1:00:45 Laci Mosley? So, we're back to Katie. And Hardaway helped her open these studios, right? But Bahan created Kundalini. So we just kinda did, like, a little deep backstory on the creation of Kundalini Yoga. Um, so glad he did, so I can eat a kettle chip. But Katie claimed to have studied with Bahan, who created the, like, yoga that they're selling, right? And she also said that she got her spiritual name from him. Oh, God, now I have to say it again, Jagat. Oh, God. So tired. So, I'm just tired of saying that name. So, cuz, girl, you are white!
1:01:30 Speaker 04 She's white.
1:01:30 Laci Mosley? You are white! I just saw that clip. Somebody had floated around this clip from not another teen movie that was like, "We black, we know it. We shake our big booty, say we show it. We ain't white, we ain't white."
1:01:43 Speaker 04 We definitely ain't white.
1:01:46 Laci Mosley? And that's Katie. She's like, "We definitely ain't white." Like, Mumbai. Like, girl, I'll beat your ass.
1:01:55 Laci Mosley? Be serious. You might be a part of Three Ho, but you're not Jai Ho. Let's, let's.
1:02:03 Speaker 04 That was amazing. This is also like in the recent past. This is a historic hoodwink, but a recent historic. So it's like, not to say it would have been okay at any time. It's just sort of like, we're all supposed to be learning and getting better.
1:02:19 Laci Mosley? You think white people gonna learn about yoga, Gilly?
1:02:22 Speaker 04 I guess not.
1:02:23 Laci Mosley? White people stole yoga a long time ago and they gonna namaste stealing it.
1:02:27 Speaker 04 And we're gonna keep stealing it.
1:02:31 Speaker 04 There'll, there'll be like seven more white lady yoga scandals in our lifetime.
1:02:35 Laci Mosley? Truly. Like, it's so bizarre to me and it's so weird. So Katie claimed to have studied with him, right? But he died in 2004 and she didn't start going by the name Jugga Goo. Hate saying it. Until 2011. So that don't make no sense. How he named you after he dead? Did the candle chips name you? Who named you? Because he dead.
1:03:02 Speaker 04 It's a bad lie.
1:03:03 Laci Mosley? Bad lie.
1:03:03 Speaker 04 Check the timeline.
1:03:05 Laci Mosley? So Kundalini students who have practiced long enough are encouraged by their teacher and community to purchase for $40, a spiritual name, a mashup of Punjabi names and religious terms through Behan's Legacy Company, 3ho.org. So, once you've done enough classes, they're like, okay, here's your promo code for $40 to get your Punjabi name.
1:03:32 Speaker 04 Very good. Normally a promo code only gets you 15% off of, of, you know, jeans.
1:03:39 Laci Mosley? Don't talk about promo codes on this podcast. I got lots of promo codes. Y'all use them codes.
1:03:43 Speaker 04 They're great. But, I mean, maybe you should do that too. Speaking of your cults of just like.
1:03:48 Laci Mosley? Listen, I already told people for $40, I'll give you your virginity bag. So.
1:03:55 Laci Mosley? Let's be real.
1:03:58 Speaker 04 I'll give you your virginity back, a constellation in the sky named after you that's really gonna be named after you.
1:04:04 Laci Mosley? Ooh, yes, Orion's Gucci belt, okay?
1:04:08 Speaker 04 I'm gonna like, close my eyes and shout out some syllables and that's your new name.
1:04:12 Laci Mosley? I know everybody knows about the North Star, but have y'all heard about the South Star?
1:04:15 Speaker 04 It's a great star.
1:04:16 Laci Mosley? The East Star, the West Star, popping ass stars, I got them all.
1:04:21 Speaker 04 And for a low, low price of $20,000, you can use a promo code to OWNTHESOUTHSTAR. It could be the Cullum Star. Tell Cullum.
1:04:32 Laci Mosley? Nobody talks about the South Star.
1:04:36 Speaker 04 And it's there. It's there. If there's a North Star, there's a South Star. It's there, just hanging in the sky.
1:04:43 Laci Mosley? It's gotta be there. We gotta raise awarenesses about this, okay? I hope that we're raising at least a few thousand awarenesses about the South Star right now.
1:04:53 Speaker 04 Thank you. It's an underrated.
1:04:54 Laci Mosley? And Cullum, very Irish name. Cullum, for the low, low, for the low, low, like Gillie said, okay? So Katie, oh no!
1:05:07 Laci Mosley? I'm not supposed to be laughing right now.
1:05:11 Speaker 04 What?
1:05:13 Laci Mosley? So, this is funny.
1:05:17 Speaker 04 I cannot wait. I have a guess. Can I guess?
1:05:23 Laci Mosley? Yes.
1:05:24 Speaker 04 Is she dead as hell?
1:05:27 Speaker 04 No.
1:05:32 Laci Mosley? Katie died of a pulmonary-
1:05:34 Speaker 04 Oh, what?
1:05:39 Laci Mosley? I gotta stop laughing, this is bad karma. Katie died of a pulmonary embolism.
1:05:49 Laci Mosley? I'm going to hell, bro. Oh, it's hot, you coming with me? Ooh, fuck your seatbelt, girl. We going to hell.
1:05:57 Speaker 04 I didn't watch the last episode of The Doc. Are you kidding?
1:06:04 Laci Mosley? Spoiler alert, oh no!
1:06:06 Speaker 04 Whatever, it's cold in Ireland, we could use a little vacay in hell. That's okay.
1:06:12 Speaker 04 She's dead as hell.
1:06:14 Laci Mosley? Not spoiler alert, she did. Not spoiler alert, she spoiled, no.
1:06:23 Laci Mosley? Oh, that's the first. Okay, y'all, I'm gonna get back to my job. So, Katie.
1:06:33 Laci Mosley? I'm a deliver this with more care.
1:06:38 Laci Mosley? Katie died of a pulmonary embolism caused by flying on a plane with a broken ankle in 2021. She was 41. So, if y'all ankle broke.
1:06:50 Speaker 04 Stay off the plane. I had no idea. I had no idea.
1:06:56 Laci Mosley? I noticed either. Katie, you spreading awarenesses, cuz I didn't know if your ankle broke, you should not be on Delta in, you know, a biscot. You shouldn't do that.
1:07:08 Speaker 04 I don't wanna say, I don't think karma is like a negative force. As a white lady, let me tell you about karma. Um, like, like, it's just.
1:07:18 Laci Mosley? Also a part of like Indian culture.
1:07:20 Speaker 04 It, it's just sort of like, um, feels a little like justice. I, I, I'm not happy about it, you know, I never want anyone to die. But wow.
1:07:31 Laci Mosley? I, you never want anyone to die?
1:07:33 Speaker 04 I want everyone.
1:07:33 Laci Mosley? I want some people to die.
1:07:35 Speaker 04 To be crowded with all people from all time, just shuffling around all the people at once. So when you break a bone, a bubble from that just could travel up and get your heart or your brain?
1:07:48 Laci Mosley? Give you an embolism, I guess. I didn't know about this. Y'all, if y'all bone broke, don't.
1:07:55 Speaker 04 You're driving.
1:07:56 Laci Mosley? PSA.
1:07:57 Speaker 04 Driving is a brain break.
1:07:59 Laci Mosley? You taking a train, you, you know, walk. We've talked about that. Get to my live shows by walking, like, don't do this. Or you gonna have to, I mean, crutching cuz your ankle broke. But don't get on the plane, y'all, cuz apparently you can die. It's like Final Destination shit, like the fuck? So. So Hardjwan did a eulogy for her, right? Because that was her daddy. That was white daddy. White daddy yoga guru.
1:08:26 Speaker 04 So the white, the white man outlived them all? He outlived them all.
1:08:33 Laci Mosley? I mean, don't they always?
1:08:35 Speaker 04 He was hiding a lot of secrets in that beard.
1:08:37 Laci Mosley? Oh, full of secrets. Hair full of secrets. So in his eulogy for her, he predicted that Katie would return one day in the future as a little girl attending Rahma University, an educational center she had wanted to found. So he used her funeral to do promotion for more scams.
1:08:55 Speaker 04 That is the Trump move of like, if I lose, it was rigged. He's literally like, if you see me hanging out with a little girl, it's just Katie reincarnated. Ew, ew, ew, I feel so bad for whatever little girl is gonna have to be told, like, you're not you. You're Katie.
1:09:15 Laci Mosley? You're Katie.
1:09:15 Speaker 04 Oh, Jesus. But you will get to be.
1:09:17 Laci Mosley? And you need to start limping because your ankle broke.
1:09:19 Speaker 04 Yeah. Your ankle's broken in this body as well. And guess what? You are the heir to a scam empire of yoga, tea, and kettle chips.
1:09:28 Laci Mosley? Yo.
1:09:29 Speaker 04 That's kind of good news. All I got was braces.
1:09:32 Laci Mosley? Right. The institute that Mr. White Man Yogi Hardjwan cashed in on with Katie's death was offering expensive events and camps in her spiritual memory. So they're like, basically being This Is Us. I, and I'm saying this because it needs to be said. This Is Us exploited one death for I don't know how many goddamn seasons. And they, they would be like, oh, this episode, she's driving home with the dad's clothes. Because he dead and they gave her the clothes and we gotta cry. And another episode, they'd be like, this is the fire, the smoke detector that wasn't on when the crock pot lit on fire and burnt the house down.
1:10:16 Laci Mosley? And so we gonna zoom in on that because he dead. This is an episode about the crock pot and how it caught on fire because he dead. This, like, I was like, oh, my God. Like, how do y'all watch this? I'm, I don't want to cry every week. At 7pm?
1:10:30 Speaker 04 I, uh, I, I love going to Venice Beach and there's a lot of really great street performers and they do the same thing where it's just like, I'm going to do a backflip, but first, coming closer. Okay, am I gonna do a backflip, but wait, wait, wait, pass the hat around. Okay, the backflip is coming, but actually move further away, everybody. And it's like-
1:10:49 Laci Mosley? The backflip is coming, but y'all, my mama died. Okay, the backflip.
1:10:54 Speaker 04 It's, it's too much buildup to the crock pot house fire. It's just too much.
1:11:00 Laci Mosley? I don't know how y'all do that. Like, I know real life is kinda like that. Like, I obviously have experienced loss and like text people who are dead and be like, damn, they dead. What the, what am I doing? But, like, watching that every week, and I have friends who love it because they just don't cry naturally and I cry like every day, so.
1:11:18 Speaker 04 I don't, I don't do sad things because there's enough real sad things. It's like, why am I watching sad TV? No, thank you.
1:11:24 Laci Mosley? I live sad TV. I don't need to watch it. But some people are like, la, la, la, I need something to feel. 7pm on Thursday is ideal.
1:11:35 Speaker 04 What is more powerful to this group of people than a dead white yogi? Like, she can be whatever they want. She can have said whatever they want. Like, she already got him a lot of money while she was alive and now it's just like, wow.
1:11:49 Laci Mosley? And she had like a kinda goofy death, so, you know, they don't have to feel that bad.
1:11:59 Laci Mosley? Now I feel like I'm gonna go out getting hit by several buses because I've made too much fun of this woman in her goofy death.
1:12:05 Speaker 04 It's gonna be like Final Destination style where like a Rube Goldberg machine's gonna like put a little crack in my ankle and I don't know it and then I'm gonna get on a plane.
1:12:14 Laci Mosley? I laughed way too hard when I saw that. And Scott, you ain't shit either because you're talking about, I was waiting for that moment where you saw it. Like, no, we're all going to hell together. Okay, I'm not going by myself, okay? This is a Groupon for a Bezebubs hell special and we're all going.
1:12:31 Speaker 04 It'll be a party. We are carpooling to hell.
1:12:35 Laci Mosley? Yeah, and they threw in some gasoline draws because we really are VIPs, okay? So, going back to, you know, her mentor, white man, doing these events in her memory. They also like initiated an elaborate period of mourning, including two weeks of continuous chanting, a gong ceremony, and a thirteen day long Mayan ceremony for clarity and direction.
1:13:02 Speaker 04 Any culture, they're just snatching it.
1:13:05 Laci Mosley? Mayans? I've been to the ruins and honestly.
1:13:09 Speaker 04 Me too.
1:13:10 Laci Mosley? Not that great. I mean, they're ruined, they ruins, but also they were killing people for like funsies. I don't know if I fuck with that.
1:13:20 Speaker 04 The pyramids are very cool. Are they as big as the ones in Giza?
1:13:25 Laci Mosley? No.
1:13:26 Speaker 04 But they're cool, they're cool.
1:13:29 Laci Mosley? I mean, it was a little cunty, like, oh, they threw somebody in the fire here.
1:13:34 Speaker 04 I have a sister named Maya, so the whole time we were there, my mom just kept going like, Maya, it's your people. And it's like, no, it's not, and you know that.
1:13:45 Laci Mosley? But do you?
1:13:47 Speaker 04 What are you talking about?
1:13:48 Laci Mosley? Okay.
1:13:50 Laci Mosley? Rama Institute is still in business, like the cattle chips. It's located in Venice, California, next to a psychic and across the street from Crossroads School, which is a very like expensive, like your mama Beyonce private school.
1:14:08 Speaker 04 It's the Nepo baby school.
1:14:10 Laci Mosley? Nepo baby school, Nepo-cation, okay? And you can still take Katie's virtual Kundalini classes from beyond the grave for thirty-three dollars.
1:14:23 Speaker 04 Ooh, that's weird.
1:14:26 Laci Mosley? So weird.
1:14:27 Speaker 04 And, oh, it's just, she's, take a class from someone else. Take a class from someone who's like actually from the culture and is experienced. You're gonna pay money to a dead lady?
1:14:38 Laci Mosley? I don't know. Honestly, after hearing this whole thing, hearing me read it, I guess.
1:14:46 Laci Mosley? Katie don't seem that bad to me.
1:14:48 Speaker 04 Really? I think she's pretty bad.
1:14:51 Laci Mosley? Oh, she died a goofy death. And she was doing yoga, like, she not a monster. I don't know.
1:15:01 Speaker 04 She, I, I don't, she's bad. She, she was like, she was profiting off of a spiritual, like, something pure and just like, flying first class and eating at fancy restaurants and, you know.
1:15:19 Laci Mosley? But she didn't do any of the horrendous stuff. She was just like,
1:15:24 Speaker 04 You're right.
1:15:25 Laci Mosley? Stay paying me nineteen dollars or more or twenty thousand dollars.
1:15:28 Speaker 04 You're right, and you know what? A female cult leader, yas.
1:15:33 Laci Mosley? Yas, I support women's wrongs. I support women's rights.
1:15:37 Speaker 04 Yas deception, yas, um, taking advantage, yas appropriation. At least you're not as bad as the guys like slay Katie.
1:15:47 Laci Mosley? Slay Katie. Namaste Katie.
1:15:53 Laci Mosley? I don't feel like she's as bad as the men that we talked about in this episode. And I don't think you feel that way either. But, I mean, I guess that's a low bar, but, you know, here we are.
1:16:04 Speaker 04 It's a low bar, but you're, you're right. You are simply right. That's just so nutty to me of like, your yoga teacher needs to like, see what you're doing.
1:16:12 Laci Mosley? Like, what?
1:16:13 Speaker 04 She can't see and she can't make adjustments.
1:16:17 Laci Mosley? Bro, she did.
1:16:18 Speaker 04 Yeah, she really can't.
1:16:22 Laci Mosley? Stop laughing about that. Okay, well, Kelly, at the end of our episodes, we always ask, one, thank you so much for being here. You are fantastic and thank you for bringing me to life because a bitch is, I'm, I'm about to be Katie.
1:16:38 Laci Mosley? Damn. Oh, I'm gonna have to say a lot of prayers tonight. I hope I don't wake up dead. Ooh, champ, stressed. So.
1:16:44 Speaker 04 Just don't get on a plane and you're fine.
1:16:46 Laci Mosley? With my broken ankle. Definitely broke. It's definitely broke. I just want to say, um, one, thank you for being here. Two, where do you like to be found?
1:16:57 Speaker 04 I like to be found at Time to Get Gil. Um, look up We're Gross. Um, that live show's coming back and as you so kindly promoted. Yeah, it's coming back. We're gonna do it at the Elysian Theater in Los Angeles if anyone wants to come.
1:17:12 Laci Mosley? Fuck, yeah, I love that venue.
1:17:13 Speaker 04 Have a good time. Yeah, we're really excited. Um, look up my name. I've done some podcasts and stuff and watch the other two on HBO Max and, uh, don't, don't come to my house.
1:17:25 Laci Mosley? Don't come to her house. She.
1:17:27 Speaker 04 Don't find me here.
1:17:28 Laci Mosley? You're so brilliant. Gilly's so brilliant and I lo- like, we did a Scam Goddess, um, live show that I think was the first one I ever did was at the Elysian. So if y'all went to that show, pull up to Gilly's show because Gilly's show is wild as fuck. Like, it's so funny. It's so wild. It's so just like, you will be engaged the entire time, like your whole body, your soul and your mind. It will be better than Katie's yoga, like pull up. And Gilly is alive, y'all.
1:17:56 Speaker 04 You already know where to park. Yeah, I'm still here. Give, give me your money.
1:18:00 Laci Mosley? Yeah, don't pay thirty-three dollars for that woman. She not here. She not gonna get it.
1:18:05 Speaker 04 Uh, Lacey, I would be the first to sign up for your cult. I think it would be a good time and I think you wouldn't be as bad as the men we discussed today.
1:18:14 Laci Mosley? I would never touch nobody.
1:18:16 Speaker 04 No.
1:18:17 Laci Mosley? I would just be a cult leader. I've been thinking about it. You know, I got an Icelandic dude that I work with now. He plays the guitar. He plays it Icelandic. And, and then we, we were like, had, like, exchanging massages and I was like, you know what? I could run a cult. I got some employees. I got razzle-dazzle. We could do this.
1:18:38 Speaker 04 I've got Scam Goddess and Sanskrit already written on my ass.
1:18:47 Laci Mosley? And I'm gonna end the episode right fucking there. Thank you so much, Gilli. Y'all, if you want to follow the podcast Scam Goddess, see all the photos, Scam Goddess Pod on Instagram. If you want to send in an email for a listener letter, [email protected] . And if you want to follow me, D I V A L A C I, D Velaci on all platforms. If you buy my book, it's great. It's out on the interwebs and in the stores. And, you know, we got some TV shows and promotions and some crazy shit coming up. 2025 is about to be fucking crazy. And congregation, I want y'all to get out there and namaste. Stealing.
1:19:31 Laci Mosley? Scam Goddess. This has been an Earwolf Production in association with Team Coco. Scam Goddess stars and is hosted by me, Lacey Mosley, AKA Scam Goddess. Our producer is Scott Zani and our audio engineer is Rich Garcia. Research for the show is done by Kate Doyle. Stay scheming.
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Previous Fraud Friday: Girls Trip Gone Bad w/ Danielle Pinnock Next Fraud Friday: The Liar in Literature w/ Atsuko Okatsuka Page updated November 6, 2026 · transcript and summary are machine-generated