Advice Line with Ariel Kaye of Parachute Home

Parachute Home founder Ariel Kaye joins Guy on the Advice Line, where they answer questions from three founders on being mindful and strategic in their next expansion steps. Today, we meet Daen, an entrepreneur in Australia considering investment for his line of men’s grooming products after ten years of self-funding. Then Deanna, a former educator in New Jersey seeking new press for the emotional health tool she designed for children. And Meaghan, a Florida-based hard seltzer maker trying to gut-check biases in her male-dominated industry. If you’d like to be featured on a future Advice Line episode, leave us a one-minute message that tells us about your business and a specific question you’d like answered. Send a voice memo to [email protected] or call 1-800-433-1298. And be sure to listen to Parachute Home’s founding story https://art19.com/shows/831bd173-0992-41b7-b1eb-112db904d947/episodes/efa58c03-0a35-43f7-8ca2-7a93ecc6c6f1/embed as told by Ariel on the show in 2023. This episode was produced by Carla Esteves with music by Ramtin Arablouei. It was edited by John Isabella. Our audio engineer was Cena Loffredo. You can follow HIBT on X https://x.com/HowIBuiltThis & Instagram https://www.instagram.com/howibuiltthis/ and sign up for Guy's free newsletter at guyraz.com http://guyraz.com. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Guy Raz?

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• 0:45Guy Raz?

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• 5:20Guy Raz?

  Hello and welcome to The Advice Line on How I Built This Lab. I'm Guy Raz. This is the place where we help try to solve your business challenges. Each week, I'm joined by a legendary founder, a former guest on the show, who will attempt with me to help you. And if you're building something and you need advice, give us a call and you just might be the next guest on the show. Our number is 1-800-433-1298. Send us a one-minute message that tells us about your business and the issues or questions that you'd like help with. You can also send us a voice memo at [email protected]. And make sure to tell us how to reach you, and we'll put all this info in the podcast description.

• 6:04Guy Raz?

  All right, let's get to it. Joining me this week is Ariel Kay. She's the founder of the bedding and home goods brand, Parachute. Ariel, welcome back to the show.

• 6:14Speaker 01

  Thank you so much for having me. I'm glad to be back.

• 6:17Guy Raz?

  It's so great having you back. You were first on the show last year in the fall of 2023. It's an awesome episode, obviously telling the story of how you created. Parachute Home and how you were like inspired by these direct to consumer brands like Warby Parker. And you, of course, started the brand in 2013. You'd never run a business before. You had worked in advertising. You didn't know much about textiles or manufacturing. And now you've got a brand that's like a leader in this kind of affordable luxury. And you've got bed sheets and towels and rugs and pillows. You've done mattresses. You've even opened physical stores. So it was just an awesome story. It was so fun having you on.

• 6:58Speaker 01

  Thank you. It was great to share.

• 7:01Guy Raz?

  Before we bring in our callers today to hopefully to help give them advice, I want to ask you a couple of questions. The first one, Ari, I wanted to ask you about was just some of the day to day or month to month or year to year decisions that you have to make. Like, for example, I know there was a time where you guys experimented with furniture, right? And I don't think you do furniture, much furniture anymore. Is that right?

• 7:23Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 7:24Guy Raz?

  So when do you know, like when you, you know, introduce a new product or line? How much time do you give it before you decide whether it's not working? Or, you know, what is like the timeframe you kind of allow for? And when do you know it's time to kind of move on?

• 7:41Speaker 01

  It's a great question because, you know, and it depends, you know, for us, you know, we introduce new colors. We introduce new categories. Furniture was a unique example of a category that was very different than our core assortment.

• 7:55Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 7:56Speaker 01

  And so, you know, we gave it a go for about a year and we still do sell some bed frames. But it quickly just became clear that, you know, the supply chain, the logistics, the white glove delivery that brought strangers into the homes of our customers. I mean, there was a lot going on and the margin profile. So it just, it impacted our business dramatically in a way that, you know, we could have anticipated probably a bit more. But part of what, you know, being a founder, running a business is, you know, being comfortable, taking some risks and knowing that they might not all land.

• 8:34Guy Raz?

  Yeah, I'm curious about this, right? Because sometimes. Like you can't be risk averse if you're running a business. You have to accept certain level of risk, but you obviously want to mitigate that risk. And when something like that happens, you know, we've had, I mean, Jim Cook was on the show, the founder of Boston Beer Company several times. And you know, sometimes they introduce beers and beverages that just don't work and that just kind of are duds. And we've had brands that have put in millions of dollars into launching something and it just doesn't work. How do you maintain your risk profile? Like, how do you maintain this willingness to be risky even when other risks that you took failed? Like, how do you make sure that you're like, you don't become a person or a leader who's like, you know what? We cannot do that. We cannot take that risk.

• 9:19Speaker 01

  You know, we need to be comfortable with being uncomfortable.

• 9:25Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 9:26Speaker 01

  And it's part of how you grow. I also think there are times and a place in a business where sticking to what you know best and being really focused on the core and the end-to-end experience for the customer is super important and where risk, you know, it might not be the season for that. And so we've oscillated through different moments in the business where we're, you know, super bullish on taking a risk and trying something new and getting that feedback. And other times where we, you know, think to ourselves, this is a great time to focus on bedding and bath and the products that we know our customers love and, you know, spend a little bit more time thinking about how we can try new things without such a big investment.

• 10:10Guy Raz?

  Yeah. Ariel, what do you say we take our first call?

• 10:13Speaker 01

  Let's do it.

• 10:14Guy Raz?

  All right, let's do it. Hello, caller. Welcome to the advice line on How I Built This Lab.

• 10:18Speaker 02

  Hey, doing good. How you doing, Ariel?

• 10:20Speaker 01

  Hi.

• 10:21Guy Raz?

  Hello, hello, hello. Who is this? Tell us your name, where you're calling from, and what your, a little bit about your business.

• 10:28Speaker 02

  My name is Dane Brown. I'm calling from the Gold Coast, Queensland in Australia. I am the co-founder of a business called King Brown Pomade, or Pomade, as you probably say in the US. And we are a men's grooming brand, primarily focusing on hairstyling and most recently moving into hair health.

• 10:44Guy Raz?

  Awesome. Okay. And what's your question for us today?

• 10:47Speaker 02

  We are up on our 10th year right now. We are a very well-known brand. We've always been more of a B2B business. We have international distribution, but we are self-funded and right now I'm stock-rich and cash-poor. So I know, I've listened to Ariel's episode, she's done a lot of funding herself and I'm just wondering, at this point in our business, should I be looking at getting investment, which we have had offered previously, but not by people in our field. So I didn't feel it was bringing anything to the table. So yeah, any advice at this stage, 10 years on, would be great.

• 11:22Guy Raz?

  All right. So 10 years, you started this in 2013. You're based in on the Gold Coast of Australia. So that's like the tropics of Australia, right? Like you grow mangoes up there.

• 11:30Speaker 02

  It basically is, yes. We're an hour south of Brisbane.

• 11:34Guy Raz?

  Okay. And right now you're mainly selling to like salons and barber shops and things like that?

• 11:39Speaker 02

  That's correct. Essentially, we're professional suppliers, so barber shops and salons, yes.

• 11:45Guy Raz?

  And you do sell through your website too. I'm seeing it here, King Brown Pomade. You sell on your, you can order through the website?

• 11:52Speaker 02

  Yes, we do. It's always been a secondary focus for us. We always wanted to try and drive the consumer to the professional and to the stores and create that that long-term partnership. That was an initiative from day one. But obviously things have pivoted a lot in the last few years. So we are definitely trying to drive a bit more of a B2C business model. So.

• 12:12Guy Raz?

  So you're not really sold in stores in Australia?

• 12:14Speaker 02

  Not, not fashion or retail stores, just strictly professional supply at barber shops and salons, yes.

• 12:20Guy Raz?

  Got it. All right. Ariel.

• 12:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:23Guy Raz?

  Questions for Dane.

• 12:25Speaker 01

  So you said that you've had interest by investors in the past, but they weren't strategic.

• 12:32Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 12:33Speaker 01

  Talk to me a bit more about that. Did you go down through a process with any potential investors? Or?

• 12:38Speaker 02

  No, we didn't. We had interests just from capital investment groups here in Australia. Just once we did sort of ask our asking questions, they didn't actually have any experience or any distribution networks. I mean, ideally for a brand like ours, I would like investments from someone who maybe has some sort of distribution infrastructure already set up or a retail network that the brand could obviously be plugged into and then get some growth out of. But no, those investors didn't have those opportunities. So we felt it was at that point was not the right time to be giving away a slice of the pie. Basically, we could be missing out on investment from someone better suited.

• 13:16Guy Raz?

  Tell me a little bit about the the general market for these kinds of products in Australia.

• 13:21Speaker 02

  When we launched back in 2014, there was not really many major competitors. If I'm honest, most of the brands were coming out of the US and being imported. So we saw that that opportunity and we spent a year developing the brand and launched the market with with good success here in Australia. And we were lucky to obviously be like many brands at that time on the the rise and rise of the Instagram train. So we got international notoriety pretty quickly. There were so many brands in the marketplace and we've had multiple new products developed, but we've actually squashed them and moved into a higher price point product category and different product category with hair health, just to try and pivot and differentiate our brand from what's in the market now, even though we do have

• 14:02Speaker 02

  a good cult following, it's it's important to evolve and increase that order value for our brand as well. So we know that the market is about 31% of men are thinning or concerned about it. So if they can do whatever they can, we've all seen the millions of TikToks and Instagram images of guys flying to Turkey to rebuild their hairlines. So we're trying to basically get in there early and prevent guys having to do that. So yeah, it's a directed consumer subscription model is really where we we see the value in that for our brand.

• 14:34Guy Raz?

  I did not know guys were flying to Turkey to get their hairline. I learned something new every day.

• 14:40Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 14:41Guy Raz?

  I gotta go on TikTok more.

• 14:43Speaker 02

  Three friends this week, I know, that have spoken to me about it.

• 14:46Guy Raz?

  Wow, three friends this week who are going to go to Turkey to get their hairline just sort of wow.

• 14:50Speaker 02

  I know.

• 14:51Guy Raz?

  And so this hair thickening product is it's is a new line, right? You've got the you've got the styling and the pomades and now thickening. And this could be a game changer. You're hoping it's going to be a game changer. A quick question for you. Is there a world where, I mean, your product is very masculine? You've got a snake on it. I like it. It's cool. King Brown, it's cool. It's it's it's got, I mean, this is clearly.

• 15:11Speaker 02

  That's a snake here in Australia, so.

• 15:13Guy Raz?

  A King Brown is a snake. I got you, okay. And see, I, again, amazing. But is there, is there, is there a world where, because I, I think there's a world where hair thickening products could appeal to men and women? Is there, is there, are there products out there that are designed for? I don't know. Is is that a possibility?

• 15:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, if I'm honest, most of my research, I don't, it's very rare that I look at the male market. It's quite juvenile compared to what's happening in female hair care.

• 15:41Guy Raz?

  And that's where the money is.

• 15:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly right. And that's not only with the hair thickening, but also other products. We've taken a lot of our inspiration out of female products. So, yeah, look, we, I've sold probably half a dozen of these, these new release kits to women in the last couple of weeks, just because they just asked me point blank, because this, women ask you straight away, they're like, is that, can I use that? And I'm like, yeah, 100%. Like, it's, it's got this and this and this, and they know the ingredients. Guys go, what's DHT and what, what's, what's balding?

• 16:10Guy Raz?

  I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm thinking you've got to rebrand or you've got to have another line called Queen Brown. Seriously.

• 16:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, there you go.

• 16:17Guy Raz?

  Likes Queen Brown, where you've got that.

• 16:19Speaker 02

  It's not a bad idea.

• 16:20Guy Raz?

  That product there too, or a slightly differentiated version of it. Because that's an issue that men and women face, thinning hair, right? And so that's one thing. The, the question I have, because I know you've come to us with a very specific question about money. I mean, how, how, I guess the question is, first of all, how badly do you need the cash? Do you need the capital?

• 16:39Speaker 02

  Our business model is a stock service program. So we, we funnel every dollar we get back into stock. And if I don't have stock, then my business is not, it's not doing its job. So we are sitting on a stockpile of, of, of both empty tins and then, and filled stock. And, look, I just know with money for marketing or an even point of sale in store, if I put a, had a chunk of change I could put into that, it would probably help me penetrate the market and get the message wider faster. So that's kind of. Where I keep looking at the capital investment, we've sort of exhausted a lot of our resources with with bank finance and different things and and they're not offering, like I said, I I would love someone who'd come in and just help me down to that level.

• 17:20Speaker 01

  Well, what I was thinking when you said before that you had had investors um express interest in investing is, you know, you could take capital that's less strategic and hire someone who is incredible at distribution and hire two or three people to to fill those roles that could help you, whether it's on the marketing front, thinking about D to C, how to get to consumers, you know, how to create the content. You know, there's so much education, it sounds like, in terms of the thickening product, and it seems like a great product for for social media and, you know, bite-sized creation. Um, I would say with the ten years under your belt and and a lot of data and proof of concept and a brand that seems to be beloved both in Australia and beyond, you have a story to tell.

• 18:05Guy Raz?

  Dane, I mean, I I I also wonder about, um, like, what's the market opportunity? What's the market size in Australia? I mean, you mentioned that you've got distribution partners, you're you've got some overseas sales. I mean, Australia is is a significant economy, right? Um, I think the population is what, thirty million?

• 18:23Speaker 02

  Twenty five million.

• 18:24Guy Raz?

  Twenty five million, okay. So, I mean, do you have, do you feel like you need for this business to to grow scale and succeed? It has to, you have to have a a distribution channel outside of Australia as well, a significant one?

• 18:37Speaker 02

  No, I don't. To be honest, the business could be very, like, it could double, triple, even within the Australian market quite easily, um, just given the opportunity. But outside, like, the fact that we've diversified and gone outside just styling, it was something we've identified that's huge opportunity. So, no, I don't necessarily need to grow the business internationally to to to get the exponential growth. It's just market penetration and, I suppose, partnering up with the, whether that be pharmacy or that be retail partners. I mean, there's there's opportunity, but I can I can now go and attack those markets.

• 19:10Speaker 01

  Well, I think what's interesting with this new product that you have, um, and focusing that on D to C, it's going to bring people to your site and they're going to see the the assortment. Um, and I think creating different bundles and creating different opportunities for subscription and just getting people. Into your life cycle and into a regular purchasing pattern, which is the upside of products that run out, you know, could really help create opportunity throughout the entire product set.

• 19:37Guy Raz?

  Yeah. Dane, what is your daily hair regimen? Just quick, give me your quick regimen.

• 19:43Speaker 02

  Uh, mate, to be honest, I own a haircut. I've got to put a bit of effort into it. So it's, um, it's probably a bit more than the average guy. A bit of blow drying, a bit of, uh, pre styling and then, uh,

• 19:53Guy Raz?

  Wow, to you, man.

• 19:55Speaker 02

  I've got to represent. I have to.

• 19:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, you got to represent.

• 19:59Guy Raz?

  Yeah, absolutely. You got to represent. Awesome. Um, the brand is called King Brown Pomade, Dane Brown in Queensland, Australia. Thanks so much for calling in, man. Thanks for listening to the show.

• 20:09Speaker 02

  I really appreciate you talking, guys. Thank you so much.

• 20:12Guy Raz?

  And good luck.

• 20:15Guy Raz?

  Yeah, I mean, I'm like, I'm looking at you, Ariel, and I know that your hair care regimen is much, much more complex and time consuming than mine. Right? Like, like you, you have to, I mean, because my wife, she gets her hair blown out every, you know, like, because she has long hair. And, and, and so I just something that I just, I'm like, I need a haircut, you know? Like I get a haircut every couple of weeks and then that's it. And I just like, roll out of the shower and then I'm, I just put some stuff and I'm done.

• 20:45Speaker 01

  My hair is a big part of my identity. I mean, it's, it's truly, you know,

• 20:50Guy Raz?

  You have long hair.

• 20:51Speaker 01

  I have long, thick hair and

• 20:52Guy Raz?

  You cannot use pomade in your hair.

• 20:55Speaker 01

  No.

• 20:55Guy Raz?

  That would not be a good thing.

• 20:56Speaker 01

  No, it wouldn't work.

• 20:59Speaker 01

  But I do think that there's a lot of interesting stuff happening in the hair market. And I actually believe that that's a category that investors are very excited about. You know, beauty has been such a big category. And I think that the hair world is, is, is really getting a lot of attention right now.

• 21:17Guy Raz?

  Yeah. All right, Ariel, we're going to take a quick break. But when we come back, another caller, another question and another round of advice. I'm Guy Ross. Stick around. You're listening to the advice line on how I built this lab.

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• 25:15Guy Raz?

  Welcome back to the Advice Line on How I Built This Lab. I'm Guy Raz. And let's go ahead and take another call. Caller, hello, are you on the line?

• 25:24Speaker 03

  Hi, Guy and Ariel. Thank you so much for having me.

• 25:27Guy Raz?

  Hello, welcome. Please tell us your name, where you're calling from, and a little bit about your business.

• 25:33Speaker 03

  So my name is Deanna Blazi D'Indino. I'm calling from Wall Township, New Jersey. I am the founder of the Mindset Tapestry, which is an innovative emotional health tool for children that really builds on a positive mindset, increases self-esteem, and it's all done through affirmations, mirror talk, and caregiver support.

• 25:54Guy Raz?

  Cool. And what's your question for us today?

• 25:56Speaker 03

  So I launched seven months ago, and everything I had went into the inventory for this business. Now, I'm realizing I'm, I have a product that I really need to educate consumers on, and I don't have the funds for the marketing piece. And so my question is, how am I going to be scrappy in getting press for specifically holiday, because I think that's a huge opportunity for my business?

• 26:24Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 26:24Speaker 03

  To get on gift guides if I don't have the funds to hire a PR agency?

• 26:31Guy Raz?

  Yeah, okay, cool. We'll get to your question in a moment. A bunch of questions for you. So this is a, so Mindset Tapestry, these are products for, to help develop sort of positive mental health, I guess, social, emotional learning skills for kids, and it's through these like daily affirmation practices. So tell me, what, what are the products? Like, describe them for me.

• 26:55Speaker 03

  So I have one core product called the Mindset Tapestry, and what that is, is really a wall hanging. It can hang in the child's bedroom on your pantry door.

• 27:04Guy Raz?

  It's a, it's a fabric, like, with like pockets, or?

• 27:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, so it has a mirror on the top, and the child could look at themselves and recite those affirmations.

• 27:13Guy Raz?

  Oh, it's a mirror on its, okay, I got you. So the kid looks in the mirror, and and what are the affirm, is there like a guide with affirmations, like suggested affirmations?

• 27:22Speaker 03

  So there's a pull-down flap.

• 27:24Guy Raz?

  Okay.

• 27:25Speaker 03

  So the child rips one off every day, sticks it to the mirror.

• 27:28Guy Raz?

  They're on like Velcro or something?

• 27:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 27:31Guy Raz?

  Okay, okay. And what are they, and what like, yeah, what kind of affirmations?

• 27:34Speaker 03

  So I am strong, I am confident, I am resilient, I am safe. I have thirty of them, all developmentally appropriate for children aged two plus, really.

• 27:46Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 27:46Speaker 03

  And then there's a card pack that correlates to each affirmation tag. So there's a visual that I drew all the illustrations, and then on the back, it gives the parents like empowerment and education on like how to talk to their kids about what that means. And some activities that they can do to kind of instill those affirmations in their child's life.

• 28:09Guy Raz?

  And tell me, Deanna, how did this start? Because I guess you've started this a year ago. So like, where did this idea come from?

• 28:16Speaker 03

  I'm a former special education teacher. I taught through the pandemic, actually, all the while having my two babies. So really changed my perspective on really how early we start mental health practices. Because I saw these children dealing with anxiety, depression at really young ages. And then that kind of got even more serious as I had my second son and went into a really bad debilitating postpartum depression. And one of the techniques that pulled me out of that was me learning how to rewire my brain and looking in the mirror and talking to myself. So that's when the light bulb went off and I said, why aren't we doing this for kids?

• 29:01Speaker 03

  Like, why aren't there tools? Why aren't schools doing this? Like, why are we not teaching such a simple thing to these children? So that's really what was the inspiration behind all of this.

• 29:15Guy Raz?

  Obviously, and just, I think we would all agree that we were, you know, like, postpartum depression and certain types of depression can be serious and sort of chemically driven and affirmations or meditation or exercise alone don't always help. But for many, many people, they can be transformational. And here's the thing, there are going to be people who hear this, and I'm sure you've come across this too, Deanna, who are like, oh, that's all hokey and that's all nonsense. But the thing is, is that affirmations, I've come around on this. They really do work. And I'm, you know, I'm about to hit 50, so it's taken me a while. But like, and also things like just meditation, they do really work.

• 29:58Guy Raz?

  There is a physical, like, physiological, like, exercise, they really do work. And so it's interesting that, you know, to take this approach, basically to get kids to say, I am strong, to look in the mirror, just to say that every day. I mean, this is like, goes back to like Zig Ziglar, like these guys, you know, or the power, the power of positive thinking, Norman Vincent Peale, like all these people who had these like, Tapes in the 50s and 60s that were basically saying, you know, repeat an affirmation or mantra.

• 30:31Speaker 01

  Right.

• 30:31Guy Raz?

  So there's something to that. Arielle, questions for Deanna?

• 30:36Speaker 01

  Well, I just think it's amazing what you've created. And as a mom of two young kids who is constantly thinking about the social emotional development of their children and just how to support them and how to give them the tools. I think that there is such an opportunity for this product. And I think that it's incredible what you've created. So. Thank you so much. Not a question, but a comment. You know, I have some ideas. I'm not sure we're ready to dive in. I'll take all of them.

• 31:05Guy Raz?

  Yeah, we are. Yeah. About how to get this into gift guides and press places. And Arielle, you did this early on.

• 31:12Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 31:13Guy Raz?

  Like you got to the right editors with your products, which proved to be transformational for the business.

• 31:20Speaker 01

  My first job out of college was in PR and I really do believe in the power of press. And I think that you're early on enough in this journey where you haven't had this big launch moment in the press. And I think, you know, just this, the whole mom influencer world has exploded over the past few years.

• 31:38Guy Raz?

  Massive.

• 31:38Speaker 01

  I think especially throughout COVID as moms were struggling with how to take care of their children and to support through a really challenging time. You know, I hear you that, you know, budget is very tight and that there's not a lot of opportunity to invest. I do think that there's a few things that you can do, especially quickly in order to take advantage of this holiday season, which editors are already starting to work on. You know, I think there are freelancers who will work on a fee per placement deal. So you don't have to pay them. Most of those people have come from agencies and have really strong relationships. And so that's one route.

• 32:19Speaker 01

  I do think that for gift guides in specific, affiliate is sort of king these days. You know, a lot of these publications are leveraging the affiliate commissions in order to just as like a bare requirement for inclusion. And so there are affiliate programs and networks. There's one called Share a Sale that you can partner with and then you work with a sub-affiliate network like a skim links. Okay. And you can set commissions and then pitch different publishers through. Those platforms.

• 32:55Speaker 03

  Oh, amazing.

• 32:56Speaker 01

  And that doesn't require a lot of upfront investment. And during the holidays, people generally set a higher commission because it's so competitive.

• 33:06Speaker 03

  Right.

• 33:06Speaker 01

  But that's really, you know, how many publishers are making real money. So, you know, a 15% or even a 20% commission really puts you on their radar. But for gift guides, which I agree is such an, like, could be such a huge visibility moment for you. Um, I think it's a, it's a really great opportunity and one that you should dig into.

• 33:28Speaker 03

  Thank you so much. Thank you. That's incredible.

• 33:31Guy Raz?

  I also think that you will be surprised at how many people will respond to you if you reach out to them. I mean, I, I, I know that, as you say, Ariel, you know, mommy bloggers and influencers are huge. I have a kids podcast that I do and we've, for years, have worked with different influencers to get the word out about Wow in the World. I, I think that you'd be surprised and delighted at how many people will respond to you, especially the ones that are focused on social emotional learning. And so I would just start cold reaching out to some of them to see if they're interested in just getting one. I mean, I, I think that you're gonna, the investment you're gonna have to make is giving some away.

• 34:11Speaker 03

  Yeah. So, yeah, I do a lot of that. I will be honest about that. I, that's kind of what I've thought is like, you know, that's the leverage I have is inventory. And sometimes it is a little bit painful to just be shipping it out all the time. But

• 34:26Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 34:26Speaker 03

  I have gotten a lot of great user-generated content and people posting about it and really like following me on social media, but I don't, maybe I'm impatient. I'm just not seeing the traction that I expected like midway through my first year. And I think, you know, I have this huge vision and I just want to make such a big impact. And I'm like, am I gonna get there? Like, I feel like I'm snailing there.

• 34:56Speaker 01

  One of the other ideas that came to me is, you know, have you tried reaching out to other? Brands to do, whether it's a co-marketing giveaway or put, you know, a flyer with a discount code in boxes, other kind of developmentally focused toys. I can think of quite a few of them. You know, not everyone is on board for that, but a lot of people are excited to surprise and delight their customers and create some sort of added value. And that can be an effective strategy is just like a note card with a discount code. A lot of those happen before the holidays because people are looking to build their email list and giveaways are usually

• 35:39Speaker 01

  an effective way to do that. So trying to tap into other giveaways or reach out to brands and say, are you doing a giveaway? I'd love to be part of it.

• 35:47Speaker 03

  No, that's a great idea. And I just actually did one this week for back to school with

• 35:52Speaker 01

  Oh, great.

• 35:53Speaker 03

  a bunch of different, similarly aligned brands. And it was very successful. And I think it's something I definitely want to continue to do because I definitely see the value there.

• 36:04Speaker 01

  You could do one every month. I mean, you know, I think at some point you could, you know, you might want to dial it back to quarterly, but you know, there was a period of time where we tried to do those every month because it was the quickest and easiest way for us to grow our follower count, whether it was on social media or our email list.

• 36:21Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's great advice. Thank you.

• 36:23Guy Raz?

  Dan, I'm looking at your website and I see that you've got, you've got an affiliate program and you've got this thing called educational partnerships. What could be interesting to do here is to kind of make it easy for parents and grandparents to gift these to classrooms because this is something that you, right? I mean, it's something that would be, you can imagine, I'm just throwing, just kind of spitballing, but like a Montessori school, for example, like a lot of, and a lot of sort of kindergarten, first grade classrooms, you can imagine this just hanging in that room. And so is there, is there a way to, to create a gift, a gifting, like, you know, gift this to your kid's classroom or to a school or whatever?

• 37:03Speaker 03

  I actually love that idea so much. And it's something I never thought of. So I'm so happy you just said it.

• 37:08Guy Raz?

  Awesome.

• 37:09Speaker 03

  Um, I am in some schools, but I'm a former teacher and like the success I've had in getting into schools is all through people I know because I'll call call anyone like I have no shame I'll do it but I'm having trouble getting into schools where people don't know me um but that's a really amazing and crafty way to get into schools if the parents and grandparents

• 37:32Guy Raz?

  They paid for it, here you go. Here, teacher, decorate your classroom.

• 37:36Speaker 03

  I love that.

• 37:37Speaker 01

  I also love the idea of reaching out to you know whether it's occupational therapists or baby groups I was part of a baby group for both of my kids and whether again it's you know by offering a discount code or some sort of incentive for those groups but um you know there's baby groups everywhere you know and you could even focus on just a few specific markets and see how they convert I mean there's Facebook groups there's listservs I mean there's so many mommy centric

• 38:08Speaker 03

  I know it's almost like at like 2024 it's like so much it's like you don't even know like where to start which is it's a good problem to have um but it's a lot it's oversaturated.

• 38:19Speaker 01

  It is but it's a captivating audience and I think if you're providing a real product that's gonna help you connect with your child or you know just help them through a challenging moment or give them tools that are gonna be beneficial I mean we'll pay anything for that you know as a mom you'll you're willing to do anything to to help your kid have those tools to succeed.

• 38:42Guy Raz?

  I'm always fascinated by how few people do this because I get pitched you can't imagine how much stuff I get I mean I don't even read it right I have multiple you know just

• 38:50Speaker 03

  This is my official pitch right now.

• 38:53Guy Raz?

  I just get endlessly pitched right so so I don't even see them because it just becomes a blur they're just it's thousands of them a week um but what's surprising is when I do kind of dive into them 99% of them are not relevant to what we do on how I built this it's like hey um my client um you know just wrote a book about uh how to how to get the most out of your uh Bitcoin uh you know investment and I'm like great when have you heard that on how I built this never and so I'm I I think that that somebody like you especially given that you you know you don't have the cash to work with a PR app Do something simple. Go buy a bunch of magazines. Buy all the magazines that you like and all the places that have gift guides.

• 39:38Guy Raz?

  And just read them and look at the bylines. And just try and find out who is writing about like kids' stuff.

• 39:47Speaker 03

  Right.

• 39:47Guy Raz?

  Who's like, who is the reporter? You'll be surprised when you target somebody and you say, I know that you work on this and I follow your writing. And I'd love for you to take a look at this. When you, when you respect them enough to say, I've been following what you do and I'm targeting you specifically because I like what you do. You'd be surprised how many of them will respond.

• 40:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, no, that's great advice. And I've, I've done a lot of cold reaching out on LinkedIn. But when you say it like that, maybe I've been framing it the wrong way.

• 40:17Speaker 01

  I also think on, on DM and on Instagram, I mean, I've had collaborations come to fruition based on someone reaching out to me on Instagram. And I got really excited about the opportunity and it manifested into an actual collaboration that, you know, was out in the world.

• 40:34Speaker 03

  Can I ask you a question about that?

• 40:36Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 40:36Speaker 03

  Cause I, I, I think about that often and I'm, I'm always sliding into the DMs. But

• 40:41Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 40:42Speaker 03

  When it comes to other brands that are like a lot more established than I am, like, I'm a little insecure about like when they see my social following. Are they just going to not take me seriously because of the amount of followers I have? Or do you actually, as a founder of like a big brand and company, sometimes look more into like what the product is and the integrity of it?

• 41:08Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, there's, there's a time and a place for both, you know? There's, there are moments where we say, hey, we need to find someone and a partner with someone that has a huge distribution because that's what we need. And there are other times where we're, you know, let's curate stuff that we really love, that we know other customers are going to love and that are in line with our values. And I would say it's a range, but it definitely doesn't hurt to ask. And, um, you know, I would try to shake off any kind of insecurity around, you know, your follower count and, and really focus on the value that you've created with this product. And leverage your testimonials too, you know? I think people love to hear those stories. I mean, reach out to your customers and ask if they'll make a video for you that you can share.

• 41:52Speaker 01

  You know, I think there's a lot of opportunity.

• 41:56Speaker 01

  And just getting those those stories out.

• 41:59Guy Raz?

  Hmm.

• 42:00Speaker 03

  Right. No, thank you so much.

• 42:02Guy Raz?

  Awesome. Um, the product is called the mindset tapestry, Deanna Dandino. Thanks so much for calling in. Good luck.

• 42:10Speaker 03

  Thank you so much. Thank you.

• 42:12Guy Raz?

  Awesome. Do you ever do that? I mean, this is a little personal question, but do you ever do affirmations?

• 42:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, I, yes, I do. And I do them with my kids, too. I mean, I, it's part of our bedtime routine, you know, and I, um, you know, my daughter and I do them together, you know, when she's, yeah, when she's having a tough moment, you know, we look at each other, we, you know, we both say, you know, we're strong. Like, you know, we say it together, we, you know, I think it's, I think it's really powerful. Like manifesting and, you know, visualizing and

• 42:44Guy Raz?

  That's real.

• 42:45Speaker 01

  repeating, um,

• 42:46Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 42:46Speaker 01

  these mantras can really transform. I mean, I have a gratitude journal practice. It's, you know, quite similar to an affirmation practice. And, um, I find even if you find yourself affirming the same things every day, you know, at some point, it really starts to seep in and become part of your identity and who you are.

• 43:06Guy Raz?

  It's actually amazing how something as simple as expressing gratitude is so effective. When I'm feeling just like frustrated or mad, I'm just like, and I, and, and oftentimes with my wife and she's like, hey, can you stop and just think about all of the things that you have in your life, your kids and me? And, and I'm like, and I stop and I do it. And I'm like, wow, yeah, you're right. Like,

• 43:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:31Guy Raz?

  you're right. None of that matters. Like this thing is, is, is just a distraction. I don't know why I'm all tied up in knots about it. It's so crazy. And I know there are people, and I've talked to people and like, you know, it's, it's eye rolly stuff, but I'm like, hey, roll your eyes all you want. Let us do the gratitude practice and, and watch, because it's actually really powerful. It works.

• 43:52Speaker 01

  I try to write three things that I'm grateful for and three things that I love about myself. And some days, You know, I can't think of a single thing, so I just write whatever I wrote the night before. But I find that's, you know, ending my day with that moment, it takes 30 seconds. You know, it's such a short practice, but one that if you do it with consistency, it really can completely transform your spirit, I think.

• 44:18Guy Raz?

  Yeah. All right, we're going to take another quick break, but we'll be right back. We'll talk to another founder working to take their business to the next level. That's after the break. I'm Guy Raz and you're listening to the Advice Line right here on How I Built This Lab.

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• 45:19Guy Raz?

  Welcome back to the Advice Line on How I Built This Lab. I'm Guy Raz. All right, let's bring in our last caller. Hello, caller. Welcome to the Advice Line. You are on with me and with Ariel Kay.

• 45:29Speaker 05

  Hey, y'all. How you doing?

• 45:31Guy Raz?

  Hello, hello. Welcome. Please introduce yourself. Tell us where you're calling from and just very briefly about your business.

• 45:37Speaker 05

  My name is Megan and I'm calling from 38. It's in the Panhandle of Florida. My business is Palm Folly and it's a hard seltzer craft brewery.

• 45:47Guy Raz?

  Got it. Okay. And what's your question for us today?

• 45:50Speaker 05

  So I hate my question, but I hate it because I have to ask it. I really love y'all's advice on being a female business owner and just some of the bias that exists in the world towards female founders and especially my area that's super male dominated.

• 46:06Guy Raz?

  Got it. Okay, we'll get to your question in a moment. So let's talk about your products. So this is a hard seltzer. That's what you're making.

• 46:11Speaker 05

  Yes, but it's not like anything else on the market. It's super unique.

• 46:15Guy Raz?

  Yeah, tell me about it.

• 46:16Speaker 05

  Yeah, it's sort of beer adjacent, but better for you, almost like an American fruit beer, but gluten free and truly a hard seltzer. We brew with fruit purees instead of a grain like a beer would have, but it's brewed in a process almost identical to beer. So the idea has been to kind of take what's existed in the hard seltzer market, which is largely soda water and vodka or a cheap alcohol.

• 46:40Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 46:40Speaker 05

  Or malt based.

• 46:41Guy Raz?

  And flavoring.

• 46:42Speaker 05

  Yeah, and flavoring extracts and just kind of usher it into a craft brewed market. Sort of what happened in beer about, you know, 14 years ago or more, where all we had were these domestic beers and then the craft market kind of exploded.

• 46:58Guy Raz?

  That's awesome. How did you get into this, into this business?

• 47:01Speaker 05

  Well, lived in Fort Collins, Colorado for about six years and just love the brewing industry.

• 47:07Guy Raz?

  Fort Collins, home of Fat Tire and

• 47:10Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 47:11Guy Raz?

  Some great beers, yeah.

• 47:12Speaker 05

  New Belgium is just my idol, love and obsess over them. And so I just love that brewing is often collaborative. Breweries are family friendly spaces. They're positive. They're happy. It's not a bar environment, you know? So when we moved down here about three years ago, I just was looking at what my next 20 years was going to be. You know, my kids are getting older and wanted to have my own business. And so I decided it was going to be a brewery. Um, and when I started looking at beer styles, you know, I eat gluten free and I, and I try to not, you know, make myself bloated. You know, we're on the beach, it's a beach community. So I was like, what could we do that's a better for you beverage? And so often people here are reaching for the hard

• 47:56Speaker 05

  seltzer for that, lower calorie, lower carbs, all those things, but they're just not great products, a lot of them.

• 48:02Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 48:03Speaker 05

  So it just all kind of pivoted from brewing beer to brewing seltzer.

• 48:07Guy Raz?

  And you mentioned, you said we, is it, is it you and presumably somebody else who's part of the we? Are you running the business on your own or with somebody else?

• 48:16Speaker 05

  It is the royal we of me.

• 48:19Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 48:20Speaker 05

  You know, I so often say that. No, it's really me. I'm kind of a-

• 48:24Speaker 01

  I do that too.

• 48:26Speaker 05

  I'm a one woman show, but I do have a head brewer who's my right hand man. And then I do everything else.

• 48:33Guy Raz?

  So you have, just to be clear, you already have, you have like a restaurant or a bar already in Florida? That you run?

• 48:40Speaker 05

  A brewery.

• 48:40Guy Raz?

  You brewer, okay.

• 48:41Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 48:41Guy Raz?

  And, and, and, and do you sell the hard seltzer there?

• 48:45Speaker 05

  We do. So we're on draft at about 60 restaurant locations.

• 48:50Guy Raz?

  Oh.

• 48:51Speaker 05

  Here in the Panhandle and in a couple of locations in Alabama around Fairhope. Ultimately scale would be fantastic and fun and it'd be really cool to be a national brand, but that's, it's, it's so complicated.

• 49:05Guy Raz?

  And so you are, and, and just before we get to your question, because it's about navigating bias, right? And especially in this industry as a woman, you know, brewer, you are looking for capital? That's you're, you're looking to, to raise money right now?

• 49:21Speaker 05

  Yeah. So here's, this is where the caveat comes in. I mean, I've probably sat down and met with, I'll, I'll be conservative and say 10 different people about investing and every single investor has been a man. You know, I've tried to get bank loans, especially at the beginning. I was trying to get an SBA loan to get this off the ground and then just construction loans. Every interaction is with a male, you know, and- I just, I didn't ever really foresee a problem until one day I was talking to my husband on the phone and I was like, I had just talked to another investor and I was like, I just don't know

• 49:58Speaker 05

  that this is gonna come to closure. And he was like, you know, maybe you just need me to field the calls and you tell me what you want said and all of this. And I, he was like, I just wondering if it's, they're talking to a woman and not a man. And I, it never really crossed my mind and I literally had to hang up the phone with him. It made me so frustrated and upset. And I'm dying to hear your perspective.

• 50:27Speaker 01

  Oh, I've got a lot of things to say.

• 50:29Speaker 05

  Yeah. It might be my part of the country I live in too. I mean, it's, it's the South. And then also I see all these groups of, we're in a very entrepreneurial community. There's almost no national chains that exist here. And I see all these collaborative business meetings happening, you know, on the golf course or all these different things, you know, it's, it is a bit of a man's world. And I'll just pause there. I'm dying to hear what you have to say, Ariel.

• 50:54Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, look, less than 2% of funding goes to women. So that's just a fact and we can all agree that that's what is happening in the industry and has continued to happen. I think that you are a female entrepreneur and that's not going to change. And what you're building, it sounds amazing. It sounds like a product that I'd love to drink and something that is innovative in the space. And I think the opportunity is that you are a woman because this is a male dominated space. And despite women being drinkers, you know, a lot of the marketing and a lot of the positioning goes to men.

• 51:34Speaker 01

  And so I think that you actually should use the fact that you are a woman and you're a consumer. You know, that's, that you can understand this audience and the opportunities so authentically. I think that's like, That's part of your superpower. You know, many of the people that are in those boardrooms and making decisions on how to market alcoholic products, like they don't have that intuitive sense of how to speak to a customer like us. And that should be part of how you communicate to investors. You know, you can tell the story of your product better than anyone else. And the fact that you are at the helm and leading this.

• 52:17Guy Raz?

  Yeah, I agree. I mean, I it seems like you mentioned you you spent time in Fort Collins. And I keep thinking about Kim Jordan, who founded New Belgium. And she was on our show a few years ago, an amazing founder and sold that business and a great brand. But yeah, I mean, I think that the statistics are clear. I mean, this is an industry, whether it's beer or wine. I mean, I'm right now I'm in Sonoma County, California, dominated by by men. That being said, I mean, it it sounds like you have had a lot of traction with the product.

• 52:52Speaker 01

  And I have.

• 52:53Guy Raz?

  Despite the challenges that you will face and that you have faced. You know, at the end of the day, the product is going to speak for itself.

• 53:02Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 53:02Guy Raz?

  Like, like what you make and what you offer is is gonna is that's gonna win the day.

• 53:09Speaker 01

  I 100% agree, you know, having that product to show investors and, you know, having people come to your taproom and try the product there. I think that, again, like the marketing opportunity in this category, which, you know, seems to be exploding right now. There's just so much potential.

• 53:30Guy Raz?

  Hmm.

• 53:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:31Guy Raz?

  I I'm curious, Ariel, in this, I think hopefully it'll be useful for me again. You know, when you started this brand, you know, we're talking now more than 10 years ago. You were inexperienced, you were younger. And I remember when we talked when you're on the show, you expressed that you had some. You know, days where you would kind of show up to pitch meetings and try to be something, you know, and when you were kind of more aggressive and assertive, you found that people responded to you differently. Now, you know, 10, 11 years into the, into the brand, you are the leader, you're a CEO, you're respected. And so with that comes confidence, right?

• 54:13Guy Raz?

  How long do you feel it took you to get to that place?

• 54:17Speaker 01

  I mean, it's an ever evolving journey, but I do think that, you know, as you have more product market fit, the brand starts to speak for itself. So you become the voice of the brand, but you're using numbers, you're using data points, you're using anecdotes. You're able to speak to the opportunity in such a different way than when you're just getting off the ground. You know, you have, even though it's, it's still new, you have two and a half, three years of, of a product that has become popular within your community, you know, a place that is a gathering center, you know? So I think having that passion for what you're building, mixed with the real information that this is a product that people want and that would have great appeal on the shelves.

• 55:00Speaker 01

  And, you know, just is going to require some capital to take it from point A to point B. Is a story that people want to hear about. And I think, you know, you're looking for the right partner. So for someone who's going to understand, you know, I think for me, that was also a great way to weed out people that I didn't want to work with. And, you know, you mentioned that too, that some of these people that have talked to you about potential investments you wouldn't want to work with anyway. And that's a really great bit of information. And so, you know, if someone is hung up on the fact that you're a woman, I mean, it's not their journey, like they don't get to benefit from this ride.

• 55:36Speaker 05

  Totally. It just, it feels like a very different journey for women and. I feel like I shouldn't have been blindsided by that, but somehow I just thought maybe I wouldn't ever have to face that and it's really been surprising.

• 55:50Speaker 01

  It is, and I think also the like, the sooner that you can let it go.

• 55:56Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 55:56Speaker 01

  You know, the better because you're right, you know, there's a lot of golf course, you know, bro chats and you know, deals done in that way and you know, so be it, that's not going away. But you're, you've created a product that people love and so that's, that's so much more than most people can say and what you've been able to do in a short amount of time is, is really impressive. And so I think that um, just focusing on that and putting your blinders up to the rest is the best possible path forward.

• 56:31Guy Raz?

  Indeed, I agree. Megan Easterhouse, the brand is called Palm Folly. Uh, thanks so much for calling in the advice line and good luck.

• 56:38Speaker 05

  Thanks y'all, such a privilege.

• 56:40Guy Raz?

  All right.

• 56:42Guy Raz?

  Ariel, I'm wondering when you, um, if you were to go back to you in 2013 now and, and, and, and give her advice and, and not advice like, hey, it's gonna be okay, I've got a crystal ball, you're gonna be fine, but more like, hey, you know, just focus on this, what, what would you have said to yourself?

• 57:00Speaker 01

  Oh, that's a great question. I mean, I, I think that for me, looking back, um, just always being true to who we were at our core. I think it's just, you're so, there's so many bright shiny objects, um, you know, and we talked about testing early in our conversation, you know, testing is important, trying new things, not being too risk averse, but also just always coming back to that core and never losing sight of who you are at your core and why people fall in love with the brand to begin with, you know, and I think that we've done a pretty good job with that, but there are instances and moments that I'm like, oh, you know, we could have just, we could have done that better. Um, and so I think just like really, really. Going back to those mantras and those affirmations,

• 57:44Speaker 01

  like, who are you as a brand? And making sure that that is your North Star from now until forever.

• 57:52Guy Raz?

  Amazing. Ariel Kay, founder of Parachute Home. Thanks so much for coming back on to the show and for coming on to the Advice Line.

• 57:58Speaker 01

  This was so fun. Thank you.

• 58:01Guy Raz?

  And by the way, if you haven't heard Ariel's original, How I Built This episode, you should go back and check it out. You can find a link to it in the podcast description. And here's one of my favorite moments from that interview.

• 58:13Speaker 01

  I went with my pitch deck. I went with some pillowcases. I had like a Mary Poppins box of fabrics. I mean, I was, I felt like a traveling saleswoman.

• 58:22Guy Raz?

  And what would you say in the pitch? Basically, what you're describing to me now?

• 58:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, I would say you spend a third of your life in bed. There is no brand in this category. I'm going to start with sheets, but I'm going to build a massive brand. We're going to be a billion dollar business and there is no one doing this. This is like, this is special and no one wanted to give me money.

• 58:44Guy Raz?

  Thanks so much for listening to the show this week. Please make sure to check out my newsletter. You can sign up for it for free at guyraz.com. Each week, it's packed with tons of insights from entrepreneurs and my own observations and experiences interviewing some of the greatest entrepreneurs ever. And if you're working on a business and you'd like to be on this show, send us a one-minute message that tells us about your business, the issues or questions you'd like help with, and hopefully, we can help you with them. And make sure to tell us how to reach you. You can send us a voice memo at [email protected] or call us at 1-800-433-1298 and leave a message there.

• 59:29Guy Raz?

  And we'll put all this in the podcast description as well. This episode was produced by Carla Esteves with music composed by Ramtin Arablouei. It was edited by John Isabella. Our audio engineer was Sina LaFredo. Our production staff also includes Alex Chung, Casey Herman, Chris Messini, Elaine Coats, J.C. Howard, Catherine Seifer, Kerry Thompson, Neva Grant, and Sam Paulson. I'm Guy Raz, and you've been listening to the Advice Line on How I Built This Lab.