Bonus Episode: Top 5 Most Surprising Musician True Crimes

The “smart” folks over at The New York Times aren’t the only ones with a list this week. We use the (mostly solid) Times list of Thirty Greatest Living American Songwriters as a jumping off point into a discussion of our Top 5 Most Surprising Musician True Crimes. Warning: You will learn things. Plus your voicemails, texts, dms, emails, and more. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

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• 1:17Speaker 03

  She'd throw things, wander, and started hoarding. Mom's Alzheimer's was already so hard, but then we found out she had agitation that may happen with dementia due to Alzheimer's disease. And that was a different kind of difficult. So we asked her doctor for more help.

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• 2:07Speaker 03

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• 2:10Speaker 04

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• 2:15Jake Brennan?

  Hey Discos. Need a little more DisgraceLand in your life? Just a touch to get you through? Yeah, me too. This is the podcast that comes after the podcast. Welcome to DisgraceLand: The Afterparty.

• 2:42Jake Brennan?

  Welcome to the DisgraceLand bonus episode. A little thing we like to call the afterparty. This is the show after the show, the party after the party, the bridge to get you from one full episode of DisgraceLand to the other, the backyard to dig into the dirt. Our mission to uncover the truth, to confront the myths, to reclaim the story. On this bonus episode, the five most surprising true crimes committed by musicians. Your stories from music history that just upset you to no end. The awesomeness of 80s sitcom music and what you can do about it. Plus, your voicemails, texts, emails, comments, DMs, and as always, a whole lot of Rosie. This is the podcast for the musically obsessed, the outsiders, the independent thinkers who know that the best history is the history that gets buried. DisgraceLand is where I tell the stories that didn't want told,

• 3:27Jake Brennan?

  the kind you'll end up telling someone else. All right, Discos, let's get into it.

• 3:43Jake Brennan?

  The New York Times has a new list, okay? A new list of the 30 greatest living American songwriters that the paper released last week, a couple of days ago, not quite a week ago. Ian Watkins from Lost Profits, this week's subject of DisgraceLand. He's not on that list. And not just because he's no longer alive, nor was he American, but also because, well, he wasn't a great songwriter. But Ian Watkins does, without a doubt, belong on some sort of list. Perhaps a list of the most disgraceful musicians to ever live. It's a long list. We're not going to get into that list. We're going to do something a little bit different, okay? And I'm going to use this Times thing to jump off of here, okay? The Times list of great songwriters,

• 4:25Jake Brennan?

  like I said, is limited to 30 American living songwriters. Now, Zeph and I will be discussing their choices, which I have to say is... Is kind of bullshit, but kind of spot on at the same time. Anyways, we're gonna get into it more fully in the exclusive section of this after party. The list of American songwriters who are alive and who should be on this list is almost as long as the list itself, the list of songwriters who are on it. I keep saying list and it's bothering me. It doesn't feel like I'm overusing the word, but then I say it and it does feel like I'm overusing, you know, I don't know, whatever. Anyway, Stephen Merritt from Magnetic Fields, he's on the list, but Tom Waits isn't. I don't know. Make that make sense. Anyways, Zeph and I are gonna try. We're gonna try in a little bit. Just go to disgracelandpod.com to sign up if

• 5:10Jake Brennan?

  you're not already signed up as an all access member of Disgrace and you'll be able to unlock this exclusive content along with some ad free content as well. Now, I suppose the New York Times, I suppose they had to limit this to 30 to make the list exclusive and thus interesting. You gotta make it kind of hard. Can't have everybody on the list. You know what I mean? Lord knows there are far more than 30 great songwriters still alive in America, but as for the greatest, well, if people are gonna care about the list, then I guess there's gotta be a limit. Same goes for the list that I'm now compiling in my head. Ian Watkins, it's our 272nd

• 5:51Jake Brennan?

  episode. And obviously, there's a lot of musicians doing a lot of bad things in those, in those episodes, a lot of criminal activity, a lot of crime. Now, not all of our episodes detail musicians who were horrible people. Some tell the stories of horrible things that happened to good people. Some tell the stories about musicians and songwriters who, yeah, did some pretty shitty things in their lives, but redeemed themselves. And in a lot of these stories, there's the main story, and then there are these sort of ancillary, revelatory, surprising stories that are just kind of, for lack of a better word, shocking. And I don't necessarily mean shocking, like the

• 6:36Jake Brennan?

  Ian Watkins story is shocking, like, oh, my God, I can't believe another human being did that to somebody. I mean, shocking, like, wait, what? Billie Holiday did-

• 6:48Jake Brennan?

  What? That kind of thing. You know what I mean? There's a lot of that. And I realize that a lot of it gets said in these episodes. And we all get caught up in the bigger, larger story. And we don't really talk about, like I said, these like, these little ancillary tidbity stories, surprising, super revelatory things, crimes oftentimes, lesser crimes, or, or, you know, just weirder shit that musicians get up to that I find to be fascinating. This stuff kind of falls through the cracks of history. And I, I look at our job in part as being, we gotta kind of, we gotta kind of pull it back up through the cracks and, and let it take root and flower it into some storytelling.

• 7:31Jake Brennan?

  So, we're gonna use this New York Times list to create our own list. A top five most surprising musician true crimes. Okay? Key word is surprising. Now, the Times qualifies their list by only listing American and living musicians. We're not gonna qualify our, our list with that criteria. We're gonna, uh, all, all we're, all we're doing is making sure that these crimes are truly surprising, truly revelatory. Everybody knows about Sean Diddy Combs' crimes. Everybody knows by now about the stupidity of the Rolling Stones hiring criminals in the Hells Angels as security at Altamont. Everybody knows about the Beach Boys, Dennis Wilson befriending cult leader Charles Manson. What I want to do is create a little list here of rock stars, singers, songwriters,

• 8:15Jake Brennan?

  hip hop stars, musicians who we've covered, um, whose, again, acts are truly surprising. All right? It's a top five list. And number five, Ice T. Now, Ice T, the gangster rap innovator, is known in the world over nowadays as Officer Finn Tottola on Law and Order SVU. But few know that back in the day, back before his rap career, after Ice T had served his stint as a soldier in the US Army, did you know that? Did you know that? I didn't know that until I got into the research. Okay, so after he's in the army, but before he's a hip hop guy, Ice T used the leadership skills that he learned in the service to put together and to lead a high-end jewelry heist crew. Okay?

• 8:59Jake Brennan?

  Think Val Kilmer in, in Heat, sort of that kind of thing. Diamonds, big gold knots, Rolex's, you name it. If a jewelry store in southwestern California carried it back in the early eighties, chances were that Ice T and his crew were trying to steal it. Not only from jewelry stores, Ice T and his crew also hijacked trucks. Okay. Truck hijacking. Ice T was never caught, two members of his crew were. And all this happened before Ice T decided that perhaps rhyming was a better line of work than stealing. Number four, Rick James. Now, we all know the Rick James mean, right? Cocaine is a hell of a drug, the Dave Chappelle of it all. We all know that Rick James kidnapped and tortured two different women while in the

• 9:43Jake Brennan?

  throes of a heavy cocaine addiction. But long before these events in the early 1990s, back in the late 1960s, early 1970s, right as Rick James was launching his career in music, Rick needed money to hang out with and keep up with the lifestyles of the rich and the famous that he was trying to live amongst and keep up with and become a part of. And he didn't have hit songs at the time. Okay. So Rick James turned to drug smuggling. And I don't mean just like loading up the wheel well of his car with, you know, a couple, a couple ounces of dope. I mean, real drug smuggling for the Colombian cartel. Yes, Rick James smuggled drugs for the Colombian cartel. Don't believe me? Read his autobiography.

• 10:28Jake Brennan?

  It's all in there. Number three, Frank Sinatra. And no, not the story about how Frank worked as a pimp for Jack Kennedy and how he was the go-between, between JFK and Frank and his buddies in the mafia. I'm talking about the story that was revealed in the last few years from a new investigation uncovering federal documents that prove, okay, that Frank Sinatra was much more than just a friend of the mafia. Okay. But as the book, this is, the book's called Frank Sinatra and the Mafia Murders by Mike Rothmiller and Douglas Thompson. As that book alleges, Frank Sinatra actively worked for the mafia.

• 11:11Jake Brennan?

  Earning money for them, using his connections to protect them, all the while, while working as one of the world's biggest entertainers. And this, this fact, this is why, after Sinatra's son, Frank Sinatra Jr. Was kidnapped in 1963, the three men believed to be connected to that kidnapping were mysteriously tortured and killed. I know it sounds crazy and no one talks about it, but don't look at me. Look at the government documents detailed in the book that I just mentioned and the fact as well that the book was released on the heels of a global pandemic back in the early 2020s, when everybody was a wee bit distracted. Number two, Paul McCartney. Guys,

• 11:52Jake Brennan?

  Paul McCartney did time in one of the world's most dangerous, most notorious prisons. We talk about the Monster Mansion, the prison that Ian Watkins did time in recently, officially known as HMP Wakefield, but called the Monster Mansion because of the horrible home for real life monsters that HMP Wakefield is. But Kosage Prison in Japan, in Tokyo, where Paul McCartney did time, isn't that far behind the Monster Mansion? Especially back in 1980, when Kosage was ranked as one of the world's worst and most dangerous penal facilities. And that was when Paul McCartney, again, back in 1980, the so-called safe beetle, that was the time when the so-called safe beetle completed his nine-day

• 12:36Jake Brennan?

  prison stint for drug possession after trying to sneak in about a half pound of grass into Japan. Now, nobody talks about this. Paul McCartney, one of the world's most successful, most talented, most famous musicians, doing time in one of the world's most notorious prisons. And not all that long ago, 1980. Okay, 1980 was a long time ago, but still, I'm not talking about the 60s here or the 50s. This one blows my mind. I'll never get over it. I feel like I tell everybody this at parties, we're having drinks, whatever. This is one of those ones I don't shut up about. It's just, no one, it's because no one cares, really. If anybody else cared besides me, I wouldn't even find it that interesting. But just the fact that no one talks about this is kind of mind blowing.

• 13:19Jake Brennan?

  And I don't mean that people should be talking about it like judging Paul for it. I just think it's, it's kind of badass, actually, you know? I mean, the guy did time with Yakuza, like real time. Nuts. But this is the best one. This is my all time fave. This is, this is number one with a bullet. Billie Holiday. Now, this crime, kind of innocuous compared to some of the ones we've been discussing here. But Billie Holiday, who spent most of her career as one of the greatest voices in pop music, while also being heavily addicted to heroin. Billie Holiday actually taught her dog how to deliver her heroin.

• 14:02Jake Brennan?

  Now, rather than me trying to explain the number one artist's crime on our list here, I'm just gonna play a clip from our Billie Holiday episode back in 2022 about Billie and her incredible drug dealing dog, Mr. Matt, play the clip, please.

• 14:18Jake Brennan?

  But that meant she needed drugs regularly. And for a woman of her profile, that was no easy task. She knew she was being watched. Cops, locals, feds, whoever. She knew she was a potential prize scalp. A bold-faced name capable of putting a shine on the name of the arresting officer in the papers. She couldn't be holding, ever. It was too risky. She could be searched at any moment, without cause. She was a black woman in a very white man's world at the time. So, a plan was hatched.

• 14:50Jake Brennan?

  Mr. Mr. was Billie's dog. A boxer. Mr. was smart. Smarter than some of the men in Billie's life, and definitely smarter than some of the drummers she'd known. Mr. was capable. Mr. was trained. Mr. loved Billie. Mr. was obedient. Mr. was crooked as fuck. Mr. got recruited by Joe Guy. Joe Guy was recruited by Billie. First to blow a trumpet in her band, then to blow her away in the sack, then to run Mr. for her. Joe Guy, every day, every day, bought an ounce of heroin. Up on 8th Avenue. Then he'd find Mr. Give Mr. a treat. Mr. would sit. Joe Guy would attach that ounce of heroin to Mr.'s collar inconspicuously. Next, time for Mr.'s daily walk. Down Morningside Drive, over to the Braddock Hotel.

• 15:34Jake Brennan?

  With the Braddock sign in his sights, Mr. would know what time it was. Time to see the man in the funny hat who operated the elevator for another treat. Mr. would run around the back of the Braddock. Joe Guy, his work done. Would bounce. Mister would scratch the door. The man in the funny hat would appear. Mister would follow him into the hotel and into the elevator he'd go and have his new treat tossed to him before the doors would close. Up then, the doors would open, and that meant another treat. This treat from Billy would be waiting for Mister on the other side of the opening elevator doors on the top floor. Out of the elevator and into Billy's arms Mister would go. First, he'd get his treat. Then he'd get smothered with love from his mistress. Then she'd detach the special package Mister had brought her.

• 16:18Jake Brennan?

  She'd sit, she'd shoot, she'd sail away. Wild. She was a star. A very high star. She descended from the rough and tumble streets of Baltimore, then Harlem, through reform school, whorehouses, welfare island, to the top of the music game with a bad habit, but able to satiate that habit from a penthouse suite via a trained canine who ran drugs for her on orders from a man who worked for her. Billie Holiday, stone cold surreal. All right, there you have it. That was Billie Holiday and her dog Mister, number one on a list of top five most surprising

• 17:00Jake Brennan?

  musicians in their true crimes, most surprising true crimes by musicians, excuse me, I gotta get the copyright for the New York Times, they're about to call. Anyways, all of these stories, like the Billie Holiday story, they're all available in our archive. You can check them out. Matt's gonna have the episode info for you on all five of these gems in the show notes here to help you easily navigate your way through our archive of over 270 episodes. All right, this week, as I mentioned, our new episode on Ian Watkins from Lost Profits. You might know the story about the horrific abuse Watkins committed in his truly horrible crimes, but you might not know the rest of the story about how his crimes, the sickening abuse of children, how these crimes could have been prevented were it not

• 17:43Jake Brennan?

  For authorities dismissing the warnings and accusations of a woman they wrote off for reasons that are fucking mind bendingly stupid. Okay, we explained it all in our episode, but the point is, this is ultimately the story of a hero who would not be denied. And she's a very unlikely hero, and you're gonna want to hear it. So check out the Ian Watkins from Lost Profits episode, the latest episode of Disgrace Land in your feeds right now. So that's the Ian Watkins story. Now, speaking of dirtbags, we have two Sean Diddy Combs episodes coming up this weekend. After this here bonus episode, we have part one, which details the story of Diddy in the nightclub shooting from back in the 90s with J Lo. Now,

• 18:23Jake Brennan?

  this is, in a way, Diddy's dirtbag origin story. Okay, Diddy's dad was a gangster, at least he was gangster affiliated. There's the whole thing with the charity basketball game and Heavy D and the boys and the nine people who died. Now, when you know how Diddy came up and what his past was like and how his how his father lived and died, and what Diddy was up to before he was famous, his crimes that we were all exposed to in the last couple of years, they become a bit easier to understand. And we're gonna get into that. And like I said, the nightclub shooting with J Lo and all those 90s headlines in part one

• 19:04Jake Brennan?

  of our Sean Combs story. Part two is much different. Okay, that's being re-released as a rewind this week as well. Part two of our Diddy story was written before his recent conviction and sentencing, but after the Cassie Ventura accusations, after the indictment, actually. So in fact, this episode is based almost entirely on the indictments that were released, the federal indictment, the Cassie Ventura indictment, the Little Rod Jones indictment.

• 19:36Jake Brennan?

  And the episode is a reenactment of sorts, a dramatization of the horrific events detailed by Cassie and others in the indictments. And we teamed that information up with more research. On Diddy's past and his motivations for living the life that he lived. Okay. These episodes, both of them, they will surprise you no matter what you think you know about Sean "Diddy" Combs. And it's important, I think, to listen to these episodes to truly understand who this guy is, because in two years, he's gonna be out of prison. And I guarantee you, this will be, this will be different than, than OJ getting out of jail. This will be different than Bill Cosby getting out of jail. I guarantee you, Diddy will worm his way back into polite society.

• 20:18Jake Brennan?

  And he'll be right there on our screens, in our feeds, making music, making content, making news, making money. And these, these episodes will hopefully help you never forget who he truly is at his core, where he comes from, and why he did what he did. D I D did. Diddy, there. See? I did that. I didn't plan on that. I kinda did. Anyways, check those two Diddy Rewind episodes out. They're coming this weekend. Next week, our new episode on Stevie Ray Vaughan. Guys, simple question, when you're listening to that Stevie Ray Vaughan story, be thinking about, okay, Stevie Ray Vaughan died young, gone too soon. All right, you can have four dead rock stars on your Mount Rushmore of gone too soon rock stars.

• 21:03Jake Brennan?

  Who's it gonna be? Is Stevie Ray Vaughan on your list? You only get four, four choices. 617-906-6638. Voicemails and texts to let me know who's on your Mount Rushmore of gone too soon rock stars. Again, limit your answers to four, please, okay? Don't cheat. Be like the New York Times. Limit your list, okay? All right, right after this, your voicemails, calls, texts, emails, and the greatest argument over sitcom music that you've ever heard.

• 21:42Speaker 06

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• 22:10Jake Brennan?

  I'm Malcolm Gladwell, host of smart talks with IBM. I spoke with Dr. Laura Jay high of Cleveland clinic about how advanced computing is helping shorten the path from medical discovery to treatment.

• 22:23Speaker 03

  The moment that there is a compound that someone in a lab thinks it would be effective to treat a certain disease. It takes about 10 to 13 years from that moment to when that drug is on a shelf for a patient. A big part of that gap could be computationally solved. Better simulation of compounds, designing drug trials that are more efficient, that would finish faster. That was the motivation to bring computational tools and technology closer to biomedical researchers.

• 22:58Jake Brennan?

  Learn more about how Cleveland clinic and IBM are using AI and quantum computing to revolutionize biomedical research at IBM.com/smart talks.

• 23:17Jake Brennan?

  All right, guys, last week during the editing of the exclusive portion of the after party.

• 23:23Jake Brennan?

  We were done recording it Seth and I, and you know, you get recording, you get done recording and then the files go over to Matt, Matt puts it together. While Seth and I were done and we were off doing whatever else we were doing that day. We got a text from Matt, who was putting the episode together, like I said, and the text just said, oh, mom and dad are fighting. And what Matt was referring to was this argument Seth and I got into over of all things, sitcom music.

• 23:50Jake Brennan?

  It wasn't so much of an argument as much as it was a disagreement. I don't like arguing with people because I'm on this tip lately, my new thing, you can't convince anybody of anything. Nobody's ever been convinced of anything in the history of the world. Seriously, ask yourself if you've ever truly been convinced of something and then think, did that person convince me to think the exact opposite way that I was thinking before? Or did I convince myself through a series of information uncovering? Maybe that person propelled me to, on a journey to discovery, but that person didn't actually have an argument with me and I just sat there and just said, yeah, you know what? You're right. I don't, I no longer think the way I thought. No one can be convinced of anything by anyone else. That's my new shit.

• 24:35Jake Brennan?

  So I was in no place to argue with Zeph. I was just kind of disagreeing with him. And I mean, he deserved to be disagreed with because he was completely fucking wrong. As you're gonna hear, because Matt, Matt is going to share some of his madness that has been compelled by this disagreement. And I'm not talking about, you know, Matt's gone a little crazy here. Okay? If I'm being honest, and this has driven him to a place that I've never really seen Matt go to before. And I'm not talking about, you know, regular overworked production guy crazy. Matt's gone full Colonel Kurtz, straight Jack Torrance from the Overlook Hotel, downright psychotic, Patrick Bateman style, all over this disagreement we had.

• 25:18Jake Brennan?

  Before I explained the depths of Matt's newfound insanity and what depths of his insanity mean for you guys, Matt, why don't you just detach the electrodes from your temples there for a moment and play a clip of this so-called argument? God, Sesame Street was so good. Oh, man, it was the best. Yeah. The music, man, the music alone, like that. I think it was the Pointer Sisters that did the 123456789101112. Yeah, I think so. Wow. No wonder it was so good. I know, man. This is back when they put some effort into that shit, you know? Yeah. And then remember it was like, oh yeah, you think this is cool. Wait till you hear the fucking Electric Company. Exactly. The Muppets blow your mind.

• 26:00Jake Brennan?

  Yeah. Then the Electric Company theme hits and you're like, what the fuck, man? Who's this tall, fucking skinny freckled guy? Later we find out it's Morgan Freeman, you know? We had it good back in the seventies, man. We did have it good, man. Yeah. What do they got now? Fucking Bluey and what do they got? What's the big shit? I don't know. My kids have phased out of all that stuff, but we just don't have. Even like eighties sitcoms, every, they all had theme songs that were like Great. Intentionally written, you know what I mean? Like But they still do. They really do. You don't really though. You get like a little ding dong dong. It's just like the Actually, cut that. That sounds a little too, uh, they're just like, uh, No one thought you were doing what you think it sounded like, okay?

• 26:41Jake Brennan?

  Until you pointed it out and you weren't doing it. So it doesn't matter. Um, no, I, I hard disagree. Hard disagree. There's some great modern day kids. There's great modern day theme songs? Yeah, there's a great, uh, there's a great Netflix, like new Netflix animated show. Okay. That has a really kind of old school. I, I don't know what it is. I'll find out. I'll ask Will when he gets home from school. And then there's, there's even like, like, I like the Bluey theme. I think, I think Letters to Cleo, like Matt will know this. I think like, Oh, I think all this shit was done at fucking Q Division, by the way. Like there's some like, uh, I think Kay Hamley's done a lot of this stuff. I don't doubt you. I'm just saying they last like five seconds these days and before they were like You're wrong, man.

• 27:24Jake Brennan?

  I'm, all right, fine. Maybe, all right. Yep. Calmer than you are, dude. I have to say, you have a lot of, you have a lot of patience for me disagreeing with you.

• 27:33Jake Brennan?

  All right. So, so there you have it. Now because of this disagreement, Matt has gone and tried to come up with a way to settle this, you know, sort of, you know, I think Matt's contention is that, uh, you know, sitcom music, as, as Zed and I both were, were getting at, we weren't really disagreeing over this. You know, we both were at the point where we think sitcom music and just TV music in general was better in the day. Back in the day, the day being the eighties, the nineties. Now, uh, Matt has cooked something up for us all to sort of delve into this a little further, but I can't explain it as well as he can. So Matt, why don't you go ahead and chime in here and let the people know what you're cooking.

• 28:14Jake Brennan?

  First of all, Jake, I just want to paraphrase Joni Mitchell here and say, "I told you when you hired me that I was crazy." But anyway, it's got me thinking a lot about all of our Gen X listeners, our baby boomer listeners, you know, folks who were around in the golden age of the 70s and 80s with these sitcom themes. And I was also thinking maybe about some of our younger listeners who didn't get to experience that firsthand. And so what I've cooked up is a March Madness style 64 entrant tournament of the greatest sitcom themes of all time. Now, there were

• 28:56Jake Brennan?

  a certain criteria that had to be met. Luckily, we have the Sitcomatron 2000, which is an advanced technology that we've invested in that can help rank these things for us. Anyway, we've got 64 entrants and we're looking for our listeners to come in and vote. And we will be running the tournament throughout the month of May, calling it May Madness. And to vote, to get involved, all you gotta do is go to patreon.com/disgraceland. You do not have to be a Patreon member to get involved in this, but come on over to patreon.com/disgraceland. See what we're doing over there. See what the other discos are up to. And even if you're

• 29:41Jake Brennan?

  not a member, you can come in and vote. First round voting ends this Friday, May 8th at 11:59 PM Eastern Standard Time. Matt, any light that you can shed on how the voting is shaping up thus far? Yeah, well, you know, it's still early in the tournament. We're here in the first round, but already we have a lot of exciting action. And here's our halftime report on the first round. We've already got a lot of excitement brewing. In Group One, we've got a potential huge upset with the Jetsons, who are currently leading Good Times. So that's a, that would

• 30:25Jake Brennan?

  be a shocking upset. Also, in Group One, we have a knockdown, drag-out fight between It's Gary Shandling Show and Chico and the Man. It's, it's too close to call at this point. It's gonna come down to the wire. Same thing with Alice and Growing Pains. Over in Group Two, uh, we've got a couple matchups that are kind of interesting. Lower in the bracket, we've got, uh, Malcolm in the Middle, leading Charles in Charge, and Married with Children, taking the lead over the higher seeded Bosom Buddies. And now in Group Three, we've got a huge upset brewing at halftime here with the Flintstones, leading Maud. So you can

• 31:06Jake Brennan?

  see these animated shows have really shown up to play this year. And Group Four, so far, is really, you know, playing out as you might expect with the higher seeded shows leading, but you know, it's only halftime. If you want the full details on the halftime score, check out the post on Patreon, right below this one. It'll be called "May Madness Halftime Report," and you can get all the current scores. So you can see what we're looking at heading into the last couple days of voting in Round One. All right. Truly riveting stuff here at Double Elvis. Um, I don't know why this is important to us, but it is. If you're of a certain age as we are, perhaps it's important to you as well. We know it is for the folks over at Patreon. They're loving it. I imagine

• 31:51Jake Brennan?

  at some point, I will get into this a little more fully on Instagram as well. Anyways, we hope you vote. We hope you, I mean, this is the important stuff. You're okay? So get in here and let us know, right? You're shaping culture. You're okay? This is, stuff is gonna be memorialized forever. And you know, there needs to be a record before AI comes and just, you know, ruins everything, just flattens it all, right? So let your voice be heard. Welcome to Behind the Scenes, the madness here at Double Elvis. Now, let's, uh, let's crawl out of the sitcom madness and hear from you guys on Ian Watkins from Lost Profits, and a little bit, I guess, on Foo Fighters from last week. With the Ian Watkins episode, the question of the week was which story from

• 32:29Jake Brennan?

  music history upset you guys the most? On that topic, let's hear from the 213. Before we get into the call here, I just want to remind you all that the views and opinions expressed by callers, texters, emailers, etc. are the views of the callers and the texters and the emailers, and not necessarily of my own. With that disclaimer, let's now dip into the 213 here.

• 32:56Speaker 00

  The music history story that I absolutely cannot shake ever since I heard it, and it makes me so pissed off because it was, I just feel like not enough people are talking about it, are the connection between River Phoenix's death and John Frusciante. And I don't know if it's just like the fame of John and his like whole comeback story, but the fact that like it's pretty much easy, very easy to connect his drugs to River Phoenix's death. Then John leaves the band, goes basically on like the bender to end all benders, and

• 33:41Speaker 00

  then nobody ever talks about it, ever? That pisses me off. That pisses me off because it makes River Phoenix look just like another junkie that died on the street, when by many accounts, most, you know, it was an accident, and he didn't know what he was taking, and effectively, he was dosed. He was dosed by John Frusciante. And it makes me really angry because River didn't have to die.

• 34:15Jake Brennan?

  Oh yeah, listen, this story upsets me to no end. And thank you for the voicemail, because it's compelled me to, I've long wanted to do a Red Hot Chili Peppers episode, but I've never read Anthony Kiedis's book, and I just don't want to get into...

• 34:36Jake Brennan?

  More of the same rock star debauchery bullshit that's not particularly interesting, or maybe it is, I don't know, I just don't have high hopes for it. This story, though, I love John Frusciante, I just, he's one of my favorite guitar players. He's incredible. And I've known about this theory and the evidence behind it that connects him to the death of River Phoenix allegedly. I've actually heard from people who were there that night and firsthand accounts. And it's, it's super compelling. And I'll tell you what, the thing that's always sort of stopped me from, from heading

• 35:14Jake Brennan?

  into this story full bore has been, there's this one really tough fact here. And it's the fact that Flea was super tight with River Phoenix and he was very affected by River's death. And he's obviously tight with John Frusciante as well. And I don't know what any of that means, but I know it's complicated and I know I want to tell this story. I know I want to look into it. And maybe there's not absolute proof there, but even in the absence of proof, we can, we can present facts as we find them and we can draw our own conclusions. So, thank you for this. Appreciate the message. All right, let's check out this voicemail from the 217.

• 35:57Jake Brennan?

  Hey Jake, this is Craig from the 217 area. I think one of the most shitty stories I've heard about a rock musician in the recent history of, I guess it's 2017, would have been Tom Petty and how his, he died of a mixture of pain medications and other medications that were all prescribed to him by his doctor. I think that, you know, with his past and being a musician and, and having the past that a lot of musicians have, I think his doctor prescribing him all these medications without being extra careful and then him passing away at the young age of 66 was, was pretty upsetting, pretty shitty to hear when I, when I got into work that day.

• 36:42Jake Brennan?

  So, that was one of the things that, that really came to mind. Also, anything that has to do with, with Ween, when, when Ween breaks up, it's shitty, man, you know, because most of the time when they break up or they take a break. Hiatus or whatever, they're in the middle of a tour. They're doing shows. They've got to cancel all these shows. And I understand recently, you know, with, with Dean Ween, he, you know, he had to take a break to take care of himself mentally and then take a mental break from things. Totally get it. It's just kind of an upsetting thing to hear, but you know, you gotta take care of yourself. But anyways, Jake, do a story on Ween, man. Come on, Ween. If you ever listen to them, they're, they're one of the most amazing, unique bands of our

• 37:26Jake Brennan?

  time. They've been around since I think like the mid eighties. Dean and Gene Ween. Hope to hear something from Ween. Thanks. Yeah, I tell you, the Tom Petty death story is incredibly frustrating, incredibly frustrating. In a similar way, so is the Glenn Frey death story as well. Hard pivot to Ween, man. I didn't see that coming. I love Ween. I really, truly do. I love them. They're, they're divisive band here in the Brennan household. I've, I've managed to get the whole family on board, though. And I was actually, I saw the funniest meme yesterday. It said that the best Elliott Smith song is Baby Bitch by Ween. You'll appreciate that 217. I'd love to do a Ween episode. I don't know much about

• 38:11Jake Brennan?

  them. I have a friend who's, who's friends with one of the Ween brothers. I'm not sure which one. Are there crimes there, though? You know, is there anything true crime-y there? If there is, 217, hit me back and let me know. Let me find, help me find a way in. Maybe I can do it through some, a Ween story through some Philly mob, Philly mob stuff. I don't know. Maybe, maybe I'm just reaching. 617-906-6638. You want to get in touch? We can talk about Ween. We can talk about whatever you want. 646, text in. Hey Jake, hope all is well with you and your family. I have a good one for you. Phil Hyman. Phil, why am I reading your text? What, what, what? Why, why are you teasing me, Phil? Get back. All right. I meant to read this one from the 509. What up Jake?

• 38:54Jake Brennan?

  Brandon here in the 509. Just got around to listening to that Foo Fighters episode and wow, as a lifelong Foo fan, I've been dying to find out what really did tailor in. Because, quite honestly, I'm getting sick of people summing it up as just junky rock star shit. And that angle with the insurance companies is incredibly eye opening. And I have to admit, I never would have even thought that they'd have to insure their shows, but it totally makes sense. I wouldn't have in a million years connected those dots, but the more I think about it, the more I think that that's the case. And he just simply died from rocking too fucking hard for far too long. I'm just glad I have something somewhat credible to defend my man with now that I'm aware of the bigger picture. So thanks for that. Keep on rocking. You got it 509. Appreciate you.

• 39:36Jake Brennan?

  Let's head on over to the 813, wherever that is. Where'd you go 813? 813. Hey Jake, finally listening to an after-party episode in real time. Listener James wrote in about Tori Amos covering Slayer. Since you haven't heard that song, you probably haven't listened to that album. It comes from her 2001 concept album, Strange Little Girls. The album is all cover songs originally performed by men. Eminem, The Beatles, Depeche Mode, and Tom Waits are all represented and covered. It's worth a listen. My personal favorite are her covers of I Don't Like Mondays and Rattlesnake. Her 97 Bonnie and Clyde still is too creepy to listen to again. Bonnie and Clyde, 97 Bonnie, what is that?

• 40:20Jake Brennan?

  Not the Serge Gainsborough Bonnie and Clyde, is it? 813, thank you for reminding me of Tori Amos in the Slayer cover. And apparently now a bunch of other covers that I had no idea she did, but also reminded me that I have to call Ryan to work on a sort of Elton John piano sounding cue for us. And I gotta write that down in my book, so I'm gonna do that right now. Call Ryan. Now, 813, I know you don't know who Ryan is. Ryan does a bunch of the music for us here. Not all of it, but a bunch of it. And yeah, I got a piano bass cue that I need and you know. Most piano, piano bass Q. There we go. That's how my brain's working. Appreciate you 813-617-906-6638. You guys want to get in touch on anything? You want to talk more Ian Watkins and Lost Profits?

• 41:05Jake Brennan?

  More stories from music history that upset you? More Foo Fighters? You want to get happy with your Mount Rushmore of Gone Too Soon rock stars? 617-906-6638. Voicemail and text, that's how we're going to do it. Next week's question of the week, I just mentioned it. What's your Mount Rushmore of Gone Too Soon rock stars? Let's get into that. You only get four, okay? Call me up, leave me a voicemail, send me a text. I'm going to take a quick break. I'll be back in a flash.

• 41:38Speaker 06

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• 42:06Jake Brennan?

  Hello, hello. I'm Malcolm Gladwell, host of Smart Talks with IBM. Imagine your business depends on a system you didn't build and don't fully control. For years, it works perfectly. It's fast, reliable, affordable. So over time, more and more of your operations rely on it. Then one day, the terms change. What once felt flexible now feels difficult to leave. Moving to another provider or bringing those capabilities back under your own control could take years, cost millions, and disrupt the business in the process. That's the challenge of digital sovereignty. Businesses today rely on all sorts of third-party systems,

• 42:49Jake Brennan?

  cloud platforms, data pipelines, AI models, software tools. Most days, these systems operate quietly in the background. But when something changes, like costs go up or rules shift, organizations are forced to confront how much control and flexibility they actually have. So to understand the challenge up close, I traveled to Paris to speak with IBM's Anna Paola-Acees and Axios CIO, Giovanni Daniele, two people who think about these questions every day.

• 43:23Jake Brennan?

  Hear the full conversation at ibm.com/smarttalks or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 43:39Jake Brennan?

  All right, 617-906-6638 voicemail and text to get at me at disgracelandpod on the socials, [email protected] on email. This Film Should Be Played Loud, that's our video podcast. That is available for you to check out right now, our new episode on High Fidelity, available for our Patreon members. You can go to disgracelandpod.com to sign up. This Film Should Be Played Loud, like I said, is a video podcast where Zeth and I discuss the greatest movies with the greatest soundtracks. That's basically what it is. We go through the songs, all the songs, pretty much, not all. It's tough with High Fidelity. So much music in that movie, great music. But I'm here to tell you, not only that that episode is available for you to

• 44:20Jake Brennan?

  watch right now, but that we have settled the debate of what our next episode is going to be. We put it to the people over on Patreon. We did a poll. We knew we were going to do a Wes Anderson film. We weren't sure if it was going to be Rushmore, or Royal Tenenbaums, or perhaps, maybe, you know, fuck Wes Anderson. Maybe you guys wanted to hear us talk about something else. Anyways, we put it to the people. The people came back strongly for the Royal Tenenbaums. So that's going to be the next This Film Should Be Played Loud episode that we do. That'll be released end of May. Yeah, okay. In the meantime, Matt, why don't you give the people a little taste of the High Fidelity episode so they know what they're missing if they're not yet subscribed over on Patreon.

• 45:01Jake Brennan?

  Let's move on to Feel My Heat, which is the category where we ask, is the actor good at singing? And I think we know the answer to this. This, the answer to this could have been the answer to every single category in here.

• 45:19Jake Brennan?

  It's a scene I actually want to be at more than anything. When Barry's band, which was originally called Sonic Death Monkey, but they're gonna change their name to Kathleen Turner Overdrive, which is one of the greatest.

• 46:00Jake Brennan?

  It's so great. It's almost as good as Willie Nelson Mandela, but Kathleen Turner Overdrive will do. So they're playing that, you know, Rob's putting up this, this record, this EP by these, these skater punks that steal from his store and he's DJing, what's that? Vincent Justin. Vincent Justin, and he's DJing and Barry's band's playing and he tries to pay Barry off to not play because he thinks that Barry's band is gonna suck. And of course Barry's band blows everybody away with this cover of Let's Get It On by Marvin Gaye. But not as, but not as Kathleen Turner Overdrive. Correct. As Barry Jive and the Uptown Five, right? That's right. That's right. This scene was arresting when it, when it happened.

• 46:45Jake Brennan?

  Yes. In the theater. Yes. Like Jack Black is like Nolan Ryan in the ninth inning and they're like, dude, you just threw a no hitter, go rest. He's like, fuck that. Yeah. It's extra innings. And he comes out and he strikes out the side. Yeah, totally. Like Jack Black, it's, it's like, he's already given you so much. And then, I don't know if that's in the script. I have to see if that's in the script. It's most certainly not in the movie, I don't think. The scene where the guy, it would be too perfect, right? It would be too perfect for them to cast him and for him to kill it like this. I see this in my head as like, he was like, you know, I can sing. You know what I mean? Or just like proved himself on the set like, like, give me this, you know what I mean?

• 47:28Jake Brennan?

  They were looking at Artie Lange for this role before they got Jack Black. No, they were not. They were. Fucking stuttering John as Rob, like, what the fuck?

• 47:38Jake Brennan?

  All right, guys, that's the high fidelity episode of this film should be played loud. Make sure you are a Patreon subscriber so you can cop that every month. I got a bone to pick with a Apple user who goes by the name Pavement, spelled P-A capital V-E-M-E slash N-T. Now Pavement writes in the reviews, no less, five stars. Thank you. Okay, appreciate that. I really do. Then goes on to say, would like to hear a few more obscure artists, but good. Fair, but I just want to point out today's episode. Okay, Ian Watkins from Lost Profits. And I might direct user known as Pavement to our archive of over 270

• 48:23Jake Brennan?

  episodes to check out episodes by obscure artists like Johnny Paycheck, Gigi Allen. That's it. Those are the only, no, I'm just kidding. TK47 is a DJ, Michael Alleg. Lots of obscure artists. In fact, I kind of think we have more obscure artists, but then it's all relative. You know, some people would tell you that Depeche Mode is an obscure artist, which is just ludicrous to think. Listen, Pavement, if you need help finding these, get in touch. Appreciate the review. You'll be happy to know, Pavement, that we have an episode on Wendy O. Williams coming up. Okay, it's going to pair nicely with Adele. You know, see what we're doing there? We've got one huge artist, one not so huge artist. Happy Mondays, The Bags. These are all coming in the next few months.

• 49:08Jake Brennan?

  It's gonna be a good summer here in Disgraceland. You're gonna be happy. I promise you. Morbid Girlie over on Apple writes, Disgraceland is one of my favorite shows. Always comes through with new information, interesting facts that aren't common knowledge. Jake tells us each story with passion. It really helps the listener envision the lifestyle and experience of each band, artist, legend, and does it with class. Thanks for all you do to help us remember the stars from the past and present. You got it, Morbid Girlie. I appreciate that. Get in touch, 617-906-6638 YouTube Pavement. I'll get you guys some merch in the mail for those wonderful reviews. I want to read some of these DMs from you guys over on Instagram at @disgraceandpod. We made a little reel about what we were talking about in the after party last week, about how Jim Morrison died. And there's this theory, we went through it, I'm not going

• 49:53Jake Brennan?

  to go through the whole thing here again, but the theory that, you know, Jim didn't die from shooting heroin on purpose, that Jim mistakenly took heroin that was Pam's, his girlfriend's, that he thought was cocaine. And we went into the whole thing, how the heroin was pink, so it could have been mistaken for cocaine, her connections to the Count, all that. So I made a little video about it, put it up, and I was very, very clear about it not being necessarily my opinion, but just this is a thing that people in the know are talking about. And my, oh my, have people lost their fucking minds about this. I want to read some of the, I don't know what it is. It's like you just, if you, if it's something different with the median, mediums, in a podcast format like this, I

• 50:37Jake Brennan?

  can have this conversation with you guys. You're not there, but I can see you and I trust you. I trust you to know the nuance of what I'm talking about. I trust you to understand where I'm coming from, what my point of view is versus information that I'm just sort of presenting from other people. But it's just, you put any, anything up against your image on social media and people just, they just, they don't even hear it. They don't even hear the reality, the truth of what you're saying. The actual, the actual words they do not hear. They hear what they want to hear and they are pissed. And they just want to yell, they just want to scream. And I kind of love it. But a lot of you dug this story and a lot of you, like a cutting zoo says, can't wait, like the glasses. And

• 51:21Jake Brennan?

  another one, Cannibal Crunch writes in, hey, looking forward to this episode. Love your podcast. Jay McNeely, never knew this story or other connections, not like me. I guess I've been under a rock, not crack. And a lot of people are into this story, this idea, this theory. I was fairly convinced last week when we talked about it that I was going to do an episode on this. Now I am hyper convinced we will be doing an episode on Jim Morrison and the Count. In the cause of Jim Morrison's death, I'm going to dig and dig and dig and try and find more of this stuff, more beyond Mary Ann Faithfull's commentary, @disgracelandpod on the socials. You want to get in touch and talk about anything, I'm here for it.

• 52:00Jake Brennan?

  [email protected] if you want to send me an email. John McNeely writes in, "Hey, is a David episode in the works?" And that's D4VD. And there absolutely is. I'm waiting for this case to be finalized and then we'll be dipping into that for sure. [email protected]. You guys want to get in touch, talk about anything at all, hit me up. Now, as I mentioned earlier, Zeth and I are going to dive fully into this list, top 30 greatest living American artists from the point of view of the New York Times. And we're going to talk about the artists who were not on this list. It's enough to

• 52:41Jake Brennan?

  send you straight up the pole, man. Man, this list, it's weird. This is one of those lists where I said this earlier and I meant it. In a way, I completely get the list. In a way, I have almost no arguments with it. But then in another way, I can just sit here and argue about, I can give you a gazillion reasons why 10 other folks should be on this list who aren't on the list. It's going to shock you who's not on this list, actually. disgracelandpod.com. Become an All Access member to check this out. Talk to you in a minute. Otherwise, see you on the other side.

• 53:24Jake Brennan?

  All right, guys, we mentioned a ton of artists on this episode as we do every week. We did it with a little more structure this week than we do usually. We talked about Ice-T, Rick James, Frank Sinatra, Paul McCartney, and Billie Holiday. Those were our top five most surprising true crimes from artists. And Matt is going to have the episode information on those stories in the show. Notes this episode so that you can easily navigate to them. And no, we didn't do an entire episode on Ice T being a jewel thief or an entire episode on Billie Holiday's dog delivering drugs. These are just smaller stories set in the larger stories. All right, so check that out. Now, let's recap, shall we? Number one, this week, Ian Watkins from Lost Profits. That's our new episode. You can hear that right now.

• 54:08Jake Brennan?

  Rewind episode coming this Sunday. We've got two, parts one and two of our Sean Diddy Combs story. Okay. Number three, next week, Steve Ray Vaughan. That's our new episode. Number four, Zeth is giving you those Hollywood and crime vibes in the Hollywood land feed. So make sure you are subscribed so you can tap into that Charlie Sheen madness this week and you can hear my music recs and the rap party. Number five, this film should be played loud. Our video podcast episode this month on High Fidelity is currently available for you. Number six, 617-906-6638. Your voice keeps us digging into the dark corners of music history. So keep calling, texting with your answers to this week's question of the week or with whatever else you want to talk about. Number seven, don't forget discos. This isn't just content. It's a community, a community of the obsessed, the musically obsessed.

• 54:52Jake Brennan?

  Nobody cares about music, books, records and the crime and grime. It ties them all together like you do. And well, that's a disgrace. All right, back in September 2012, mega disgrace. Ian Watkins from Lost Profits was arrested for unspeakable crimes. And here's what America was listening to at that time, according to the Billboard charts. Number one, we are never ever getting back together. Taylor Swift, last week, one. Peak position, one. Weeks on chart, three. Number two, whistle, Flo Rida, last week, two. Peak position, one. Weeks on chart, 15. Number three, Lights, Ellie Goulding, last week, three. Peak position, two. Weeks on chart, 6.

• 55:35Jake Brennan?

  Number four, One More Night, number five, last week, nine. Peak position, four. Weeks on chart, 10. Number five, Some Nights, fun, last week, six. Peak position, five. Weeks on chart, 27. Number six, Call Me Mid, Carly Rae Jepsen.

• 56:04Speaker 06

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• 56:44Speaker 03

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• 56:52Jake Brennan?

  Zolir 150mg is a prescription medication used to treat food allergy in people one year of age and older to reduce allergic reactions due to accidental exposure to one or more foods. While taking Zolir, you should continue to avoid all foods to which you are allergic. Don't use if you are allergic to Zolir. Zolir may cause a severe, life-threatening allergic reaction called anaphylaxis. Tell your doctor if you ever had anaphylaxis. Get help right away if you have trouble breathing or if you have swelling of your throat or tongue. Zolir should not be used for the emergency treatment of allergic reactions, including anaphylaxis. Zolir is for maintenance use to reduce allergic reactions, including anaphylaxis, while avoiding food allergens. Serious side effects such as cancer, fever, muscle aches and rash, parasitic infection, or heart and circulation problems have been reported. Please see zolir.com for full prescribing information. Ask an allergist about Zolir.

• 57:35Jake Brennan?

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