KHC 188 - Andy Stumpf

Andy Stumpf - former Navy SEAL with a 17-year career, including time on SEAL Team 6. He is also a public speaker, podcast host ("Cleared Hot"), and entrepreneur. He was medically retired in 2013 but continues to be active in the military community and various sports like jiu-jitsu and hunting. This episode with Andy Stumpf explores discipline, leadership, and navigating uncertainty - from his book Drownproof and SEAL training mindset to broader conversations about war, leadership, and information overload. Andy and Cam also touch on modern habits like screen time, personal standards, entrepreneurship, and risk-taking, ultimately focusing on growth through doing hard things and living with purpose. Follow Andy: https://www.instagram.com/andystumpf212/ Follow along: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cameronrhanes Twitter: https://twitter.com/cameronhanes Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/camhanes/ Website: https://www.cameronhanes.com Timestamps: 00:00:00 – Andy Stumpf’s New Book: Drownproof 00:14:27 – Recruitment Process & SEAL vs Team Guys 00:21:09 – AUMF: Is the Country at War or Heading Towards it? 00:32:04 – Humanitarianism of the President and Our Country 00:37:20 – The Effect of LESS Screen Time 00:42:20 – Paralysis Through Lack of Reasonable Information 00:48:51 – Our Current Countries Candidates 00:57:40 – Andy Frisella, Leadership Strategies, and Real Life Standards 01:03:16 – Running a Coffee Shop and Podcasting 01:09:29 – Andy’s Book Tour and Success of the Book 01:14:16 – F**k, Marry, Kill: Jiu Jitsu, Wingsuiting, and Andy’s Helicopter 01:16:17 – Risk and Danger for Growth 01:19:20 – Andy’s Goals in Life Now 01:21:44 – BUD/S & Doing Hard Things 01:23:40 – Who Inspires Andy 01:25:36 – Final Thoughts Thank you to our sponsors: Good Ranchers: https://www.goodranchers.com/ use code CAMERON for $25 off your first order Grizzly Coolers: https://www.grizzlycoolers.com/ use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% off Black Rifle Coffee: https://www.blackriflecoffee.com/ Use code KEEPHAMMERING for 10% your order MTN OPS Supplements: https://mtnops.com/ Use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% off Montana Knife Company: https://www.montanaknifecompany.com/ Use code CAM for 10% off Hoyt: http://bit.ly/3Zdamyv use code CAM for 10% off

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:15Cameron Hanes?

  This is the Keep Hammer Collective with the honorable Andy Stumpf.

• 0:19Speaker 01

  Let's be careful with the words that we use. Also, is it live? James, is this live or is this recorded?

• 0:24Cameron Hanes?

  No, it's live. We're live. This is going over the airwaves right now. We can't edit.

• 0:30Speaker 01

  Are you guys with me?

• 0:32Cameron Hanes?

  We would not do that. But look at this, dude.

• 0:36Speaker 01

  Double copies.

• 0:37Cameron Hanes?

  Look at this. I can double fist this shit.

• 0:39Speaker 01

  You could, if you wanted to.

• 0:40Cameron Hanes?

  I'll just read both, both. So here's.

• 0:43Speaker 01

  They're identical.

• 0:43Cameron Hanes?

  Your new book.

• 0:45Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 0:45Cameron Hanes?

  Drown Proof.

• 0:47Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 0:47Cameron Hanes?

  But here's all I know. If you write a book like this, you got a good title, you got this name right here.

• 0:55Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 0:56Cameron Hanes?

  You got this name, you got that name. So we got, let me get through it. Joe Rogan.

• 1:04Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:04Cameron Hanes?

  You're the author, of course. Then you got Jack Carr.

• 1:08Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:08Cameron Hanes?

  Then you got Jaco Willing.

• 1:10Speaker 01

  It's not bad, right?

• 1:12Cameron Hanes?

  I don't, it doesn't even matter what the in this book.

• 1:14Speaker 01

  I don't think that's true at all. I think it matters.

• 1:18Speaker 01

  I think the content matters.

• 1:20Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, okay. With me, I'm like, if I could just have those people, then just blank pages, probably still sell.

• 1:26Speaker 01

  I will say the colorway for me, the colorway, the blue and gold.

• 1:30Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:30Speaker 01

  I'm a fan and I love that picture.

• 1:33Cameron Hanes?

  This is, so do you know who just won the national championship in basketball?

• 1:38Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:39Cameron Hanes?

  Michigan. Do you know what their colors are?

• 1:41Speaker 01

  I'm gonna guess blue and gold.

• 1:42Cameron Hanes?

  That's right. So, perfect, perfect timing.

• 1:45Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:47Cameron Hanes?

  But no, your book, so we're gonna talk about, here's what we're gonna talk about. Also, for you, for you, for those that don't know. Oh, wait, where did it? It was in this one. You say they're the same. Maybe they're not. Maybe they are. But I know there's a little your bio. Where was it? Oh, yeah. Andy Stumpf joined the most elite counterterrorism unit in the military SEAL Team Six in 2002. The unit is tasked with conducting the nation's most critical missions. While Andy was on a combat deployment, an Iraqi insurgent shot him at close range with an AK-47. Doctors told him it'd be years, if ever, before he recovered the use of his leg and returned to full active duty. And also now you're a black belt in jujitsu. So wrong again, doctors.

• 2:32Speaker 01

  Throughout technically, they didn't say that I couldn't do jujitsu. So.

• 2:35Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I know. But it was like a negative spin on your.

• 2:38Speaker 01

  They were trying to they were trying to limit me in the way I thought about.

• 2:41Cameron Hanes?

  And I don't like that. No, we don't like self limiting words, right? Throughout his 17 year career, Andy executed hundreds of combat operations throughout the world in support of global war and terror. GWOT is what we call it, right?

• 2:53Speaker 01

  Indeed.

• 2:54Cameron Hanes?

  He was medically retired in June of 2013. His awards and decorations include five Bronze Stars medals, four with valor. Valor, yeah. The Purple Heart, the Joint Service Commendation Medal, the Navy and Marine Corps Commendation Medal with valor. Three Navy and Marine Corps Achievement Medals, two Combat Action Ribbons, and the Presidential Unit Citation. Dude, that's quite a resume.

• 3:21Speaker 01

  So if you go on AI and you say, and make me a good resume, though, that's what it spits out.

• 3:25Cameron Hanes?

  Dude, this is this is incredible. So I just wanted to share, you know, just so people can understand who we're talking to here. You're a beast. And it's a huge honor to have you here to talk about your book. Your book comes out on Tuesday.

• 3:40Speaker 01

  Yes, a week. What day is today?

• 3:42Cameron Hanes?

  Today, Tuesday.

• 3:42Speaker 01

  We don't know. A week from today. Today is our last day.

• 3:44Cameron Hanes?

  The last day on earth, because our our amazing president is going to nuke everyone. All right.

• 3:54Cameron Hanes?

  Thank you for up this podcast. Um, but anyway, so tell me about the book. You're a badass. I love it.

• 4:03Speaker 01

  Okay, those are your words. Uh, you've known me long enough that you know, I do not use those words when I am talking about myself. I usually go the other direction. Um, so the book, nobody believes me still when I tell this story. One of your previous guests tricked me into writing this book. His name is Mike Glover.

• 4:21Cameron Hanes?

  I do know Mike.

• 4:23Speaker 01

  He said to me for years, he's like, hey, you should write a book. And I said, hey, I think you're an idiot and your ideas aren't any good.

• 4:29Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 4:29Speaker 01

  And he came to me with an idea that I actually did think was interesting. Mike, for those of you who don't know, was a Green Beret and then an agency contractor afterwards. And he said, let's write a book where we pick seven to 10 topics. And what we'll do is we'll each write what we feel about him, whatever, uh, leadership, um, communication. So, and we would figure out a way, make maybe his would be italicized or bold. It might would be in a different font. And we would go back and forth. So it would be this conversation from the special operations world, but from two different people from two different, uh, communities. I said, okay, that actually is interesting. So we set a time and date on a calendar where we were going to get together and we were going to share our work. And that date came and Mike had nothing to share because he never wrote a single word.

• 5:15Cameron Hanes?

  Okay. He's helping you get it going. Get your book going. So he did that for you.

• 5:20Speaker 01

  I haven't been able to get him to be truly honest about if he just didn't do it because he didn't want to, or that was his goal. But I had written, I think about 35,000 words. And Mike had found a guy who specializes in making, I'll, I'll call it a book pitch, like a PDF document that they can send out. I don't know the official, uh, name for it.

• 5:42Cameron Hanes?

  A deck.

• 5:43Speaker 01

  Probably is. Yep. Um, sent what I had written to him. He created a deck, found our mutual literary agent. She shopped it to publishers, said,

• 5:56Speaker 01

  Maybe 90 days to six months, probably here back because of the cycle that I guess they're not always accepting pitches for books.

• 6:03Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 6:04Speaker 01

  And I think within two weeks, St. Martin's came back and said, we're interested.

• 6:10Cameron Hanes?

  Wow.

• 6:10Speaker 01

  And then I realized, son of a bitch, I have to write the rest of this by myself.

• 6:14Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 6:14Speaker 01

  So it really was Mike tricking me into a concept that I liked. And then at about 35,000 pages, I think it's 77,000 pages.

• 6:23Cameron Hanes?

  Words.

• 6:24Speaker 01

  That too. Yeah, words are same thing. They're interchangeable.

• 6:26Cameron Hanes?

  And well, one word per page.

• 6:28Speaker 01

  Totally. Triple spaced.

• 6:33Speaker 01

  I was about halfway done and I actually really enjoyed it.

• 6:35Cameron Hanes?

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• 7:19Cameron Hanes?

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• 7:50Cameron Hanes?

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• 8:32Cameron Hanes?

  And that's all one word. And I'm not going to spell it. Keep hammering. Again, keep hammering. One word for 20% off. Don't roll with weak gear. Go Grizzly.

• 8:45Speaker 01

  The first thing I ever did that was, I'll call it public facing, out of getting out of the military, I started a blog called Confessions of an Idiot, because-

• 8:54Cameron Hanes?

  No, dude, I read those. You were freaking so, the one, wasn't there one about like thongs or sandals?

• 9:04Speaker 01

  Maybe.

• 9:04Cameron Hanes?

  Anyway, I remember, I used to read those. I thought you were an awesome writer. That's all I remember.

• 9:10Speaker 01

  I always enjoyed writing. I struggled in high school from a GPA perspective, not because I wasn't, I didn't enjoy being in school. I just didn't care because I knew I was going to go into the Navy. So my friends were taking their SATs. I never did. But I always enjoyed my English class and I had a really cool teacher. So the blog was the first attempt at writing, I guess. It's easier, once I started doing the podcast, as you know, or maybe it's not the same for you, I can get my thoughts out way faster verbally than writing because I'll write a lot and then I kind of trim away. So I carve away at it a little bit. That's the way that I write. But I really enjoyed the, putting the other 40,000 words down. I really enjoyed it. And I didn't have like a guillotine over my head, like a tight

• 9:54Speaker 01

  timeline. So I chipped away at it on days that I wanted to write. I did 500 words or- Two thousand or whatever. And I knew I knew the skeleton of what I wanted to write about. And next thing you know, here we are. Sort of published ish. I mean, I guess you have a an ARC copy. It's not a big deal. We know what that word means.

• 10:12Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, that's great.

• 10:13Speaker 01

  The physical copy itself.

• 10:15Cameron Hanes?

  No, it looks it looks amazing. Yeah, I mean, and it's there's some great stories in here. I've been a fan of your writing forever. So I've I've read a lot of what you've written, not since I kind of forgot about that.

• 10:28Speaker 01

  The Confessions of an Idiot.

• 10:29Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. Is it still out there?

• 10:30Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. I never took it down.

• 10:32Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, because there's some good, good shit in there.

• 10:34Speaker 01

  Two of those posts got read on the floor of Congress without me knowing about it.

• 10:39Cameron Hanes?

  Maybe that's what I'm thinking of. I I think it is.

• 10:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:43Cameron Hanes?

  Who read that? One time, I want to say Joe Kent now. It's got the guy kind of remind me of Joe Kent.

• 10:50Speaker 01

  It wasn't Joe Kent. It was a guy from Virginia.

• 10:54Cameron Hanes?

  Yes.

• 10:55Speaker 01

  And

• 10:55Cameron Hanes?

  That's right. He was a SEAL, wasn't he?

• 10:57Speaker 01

  He was a SEAL.

• 10:58Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 10:58Speaker 01

  And the first, the first one that I wrote that was read, it was called, what is it? A Debt That Cannot Be Repaid. And so I put the blog post in the book in between chapters just to get people a better idea of who I am and contact with him. That was the first one that I put in there. Also helps with word counts. Not a big deal.

• 11:16Cameron Hanes?

  Hey, if you're already worked your ass up to write it and put it out, it's got to be close. Let's put that in.

• 11:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, and the

• 11:22Cameron Hanes?

  Don't waste that.

• 11:23Speaker 01

  The blog posts were a couple paragraphs each. It wasn't like I was writing a like a Steinbeck novel.

• 11:29Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 11:30Speaker 01

  But yeah, somebody, you know, the internet's a weird thing, right? You hit upload, whether it's written word or doing a podcast. I you never know where it's going to go.

• 11:37Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 11:37Speaker 01

  And then I remember looking at the blog. There was a man who was killed overseas and I had I'd kind of received that news as I was eating breakfast. And it wasn't my old squadron and it wasn't somebody I knew directly. But over a bowl of cereal, I wrote that in about five minutes with my kids at the table with me. Hit upload, close my laptop, came back at the end of the day. I'm like, what the actual is going on? This thing has been shared a hundred thousand times and which I'm like, I have no idea what that means, but this is definitely wildly outside of my control. And yeah, that ended up being read pretty wild. But yeah, that was the first written word that somehow eventually morphed itself into this book.

• 12:20Cameron Hanes?

  Well, I, that should be a good example of how, what a great writer you are and how powerful that the words that you share can be. So, I mean, I would just encourage everybody to go get this book, um, order. You did, did you do an audible or no?

• 12:33Speaker 01

  I did. Yeah, I did the audio book. I was able to read it.

• 12:36Cameron Hanes?

  That's rough.

• 12:37Speaker 01

  I didn't find it to be bad. I got to do it in my own podcast studio.

• 12:40Cameron Hanes?

  I can't read.

• 12:41Speaker 01

  That's not true. You can read well.

• 12:43Cameron Hanes?

  You, you.

• 12:47Cameron Hanes?

  Will, see?

• 12:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:49Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, no, I forgot to mention too, with your accomplishments, I wanted to say, thank you for your service to our country. I appreciate all you've done, but you did forget, you also took me skydiving. That was not listed.

• 13:04Speaker 01

  Well, there's always the second book, right? Maybe that'll be the cover.

• 13:09Cameron Hanes?

  That was fun. That, that, I forgot about that too till right now, but yeah, we've, we've, we've hung out a bit. It was fun.

• 13:16Speaker 01

  Now, it was a wild process. You know, people ask me why I wrote that book and the number one thing people say, given my military background, they'll say, those experiences sound so incredible.

• 13:29Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 13:29Speaker 01

  But I'll never have them, which mathematically they're correct because very few people have a low enough IQ to want to go down the career path that I went down. So mathematically, most people won't experience those things and those experiences definitely changed the trajectory of my life. But if I go to my deathbed and don't do anything with those experiences and only changes me.

• 13:48Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 13:49Speaker 01

  What's the point? So that is an attempt of, my wife read the book. She goes, you know, first off, I really like it. She goes, most of the books I read though, they have like this hero's arc where it starts off, you make mistakes and then you climb out of the valley and then you're successful. She goes, yours was more just a descent down into more mistakes.

• 14:10Speaker 01

  It's not wave tops. There's no war stories in there. It's, it's my best attempt to take 17 years of service in that career field and the lessons that were learned and the, the tools to solve problems and to put them into a template. So they can be tools for other people and they can throw them at whatever problems you have in life because they, they still work everywhere outside of the military. I think the ones that we refine and work on the most in the military are the ones that probably work best in that high stress, high consequence environment. But hey, man, if they work there, they're gonna be just fine in the business.

• 14:44Cameron Hanes?

  They'll work anywhere.

• 14:45Speaker 01

  And that's it. I mean, that's is my attempt to do something with the experiences that largely changed my life in the hopes that somebody else can apply that to a problem that they have and it changes the outcome of theirs.

• 14:55Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, no, I mean, I don't see how it wouldn't work that way because the amount of stress and the training and the preparedness that you have to have to, to take on the job that you had before. There's nothing in the civilian life that's probably going to be anywhere close. So yeah, those tools, those lessons, yeah, they, they should be able to help about anybody and just hope so to give people confidence. Just like, I always like, when I read things that people went through crazy things and overcame them and succeeded and or survived and succeeded, it just, I can, you can always find a common thread to, to tie back into something you're doing. So you can always learn or at least have a mindset that you didn't have before just by, by reading other, you know, excerpts or.

• 15:41Speaker 01

  What you just said honestly is the difference. Again, you know, statistically, if you look at people who try to become a SEAL, if it's in the summer months, 75% are not going to make it. 85% in the winter months aren't going to make it just because it's colder. Physiologically though, they all take the same tests. Like the people that graduate and the people that don't all go through the same pipeline together and they arrive at day one together.

• 16:07Speaker 01

  Physiologically, if you could make it to that day, you have what it takes to graduate. Like, we're not turning you into some incredible physical machine in training. You're actually probably on like a little bit of a decline physically. So the difference is all upstairs.

• 16:19Cameron Hanes?

  Mm hmm.

• 16:20Speaker 01

  And it's the mentality. And that's a choice. And it's some of those things have to be learned by being out there and struggling. But others, you can just change the way that you view things. And it can drastically shift the trajectory of your life.

• 16:33Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, no, that makes sense. Um, it reminded me like, so where, where's like the special forces community now as far as like, you know, you always hear about our generations are getting softer, weaker, whatever. How is the recruitment process? And is it getting harder to, to make SEALs and Rangers and guys like that? Or is there still beasts out there?

• 16:55Speaker 01

  I don't think so. I, the guys I talked to were still in will pretty much all say the same thing. It's still, the training program works.

• 17:03Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 17:04Speaker 01

  For all of those pipelines that you're talking about. And it was interesting going back as an instructor, you could play a character if you wanted to, or you could just realize your job was to apply the curriculum because the curriculum does its job. It's done it since the forties.

• 17:17Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 17:17Speaker 01

  And generations have shifted in the U.S. since the forties. And that program is still finding the right people and sifting out the right ones. And I would say, from what I hear, people who are still in say that they are more capable and probably more badass than the generations before.

• 17:33Cameron Hanes?

  Really?

• 17:33Speaker 01

  Dude, they're doing stuff I'd never even thought about.

• 17:36Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm.

• 17:36Speaker 01

  I mean, the world is evolving around them, but it's still the right type of people that are there for the right reason and they're getting after it.

• 17:44Cameron Hanes?

  You, uh, there's one part in the book where you mentioned there's a, you talk about the distinct difference between a SEAL and a team guy.

• 17:51Speaker 01

  Oh, yes.

• 17:52Cameron Hanes?

  So, um, I thought that was, I think that's a big deal. Don't you think that that's like? As far as if you're going to predict success of a SEAL, isn't that it?

• 18:06Speaker 01

  I would say long-term for sure and your ability to-

• 18:09Cameron Hanes?

  Tell me what that means.

• 18:10Speaker 01

  So, one is a job title and the other one is the way that the person conducts themselves. You know, SEAL is something that ends up, that's stupid, that ends up on your name. But if you earn that title, and it's, I don't mean to be diminutive towards the title at all. It is difficult to achieve, but also for people out there, go on Amazon and you can buy yourself a trident. I think you should buy one and wear it out in town and get a mini one for your suit lapel.

• 18:33Cameron Hanes?

  You can be a SEAL too.

• 18:34Speaker 01

  I mean, actually, anybody, it's like you can get one on Amazon, go to town. It's a title, if you earn it and it is hard-earned, you will carry it for the rest of your life and it'll open doors for you. Some of them you're qualified to go through and then some of them you're probably not qualified to go through. Because people don't have a really good understanding of actually what it means outside of the military, which makes sense because there's not that many of them. A team guy is somebody who cares about the mission. And their uniform, they might look like shit. They might not be able to find their trident. But when shit goes down and things are difficult, they're the person that you're looking for. They're not there for a resume bullet. They're there for the person to the right and the left.

• 19:16Speaker 01

  They're there because they're bought in on what this country stands for and what the job is. Those are two different people.

• 19:22Cameron Hanes?

  Right, yeah, one's individual, yeah, one's-

• 19:25Speaker 01

  There are people who come through, and again, people can do whatever they want to with their experiences. People stay in the teams for four years and probably 40, I guess that'd be possible. They, some people legitimately come in, it's a bullet point on a resume. And for other people, it's eight bullet points down. You know, and again, that's kind of the difference between a team guy and a SEAL, in my opinion. Everything I just said is purely just my opinion. I don't speak for anybody else.

• 19:49Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, no, I understand, but I get what you're saying. And that, that, that did, that example did stand out for me because then I was, then I thought about it and I'm like, okay.

• 19:57Speaker 01

  Look at what you do. There's bow hunters and then there's bow hunters.

• 20:02Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 20:03Speaker 01

  You might have a real tree rap on your truck.

• 20:06Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 20:07Speaker 01

  And you might have all of the gear and you have no time invested. You don't train, you don't know anything about your bow. You don't actually even care about the animal that you're out there hunting. And then there's people like yourself who dedicate your entire life to that pursuit. Same title, perhaps.

• 20:21Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 20:21Speaker 01

  Not the same person.

• 20:22Cameron Hanes?

  I got it. Yeah, that makes sense. It's a, yeah, cuz I just think that you could, like even at a regular corporate setting, there's people who are, you know, more solely focused on how far can I get in this thing? Or can we, what's the objective of the business? Like, can we, how can I help us win? I'll win. And, uh, that, so that should make sense to about anybody.

• 20:42Speaker 01

  I hope so.

• 20:43Cameron Hanes?

  I just like that. Yeah, that's covered too, because, and especially in military setting, not again, in corporate setting, whatever, who gives a, but in the military.

• 20:51Speaker 01

  You say that till you own the business, then you're like, god damn it, why don't people care?

• 20:54Cameron Hanes?

  Of course, yeah, like my business, yeah, you, these guys better give a, but anyway, um, in the military, though, it's all, it's not all, but a big part of it is, you know, you're supposed to, I think part of the things that the approach you guys take is you'd be willing to die for your teammate, they'd be willing to die for you. That's how it has to work.

• 21:15Speaker 01

  I mean, I hope that that doesn't happen and we're not asked to do that. What I will say is that is a little bit, you know, the military and military service, I know, you know, one of your children went in and served and the army is different than the Navy, which is different than the Marines and different than the Air Force. And absolutely nobody even knows what Space Force does, so we'll just see.

• 21:34Speaker 01

  I've heard they do a lot of like internet type stuff, which I don't think is space unless it's cyberspace, but I don't know. Their uniforms, tits, they're great. Great camo pattern.

• 21:42Cameron Hanes?

  Great.

• 21:43Speaker 01

  I don't know why you need camo pattern for the internet, but it like, we're going way off, yeah, way, way off topic.

• 21:49Speaker 01

  Military service is, it is different. About 15% of military occupations actually have a role in direct combat operations on the ground. And I don't make that delineation to try to say that one is more valuable than the other, because I think something that is often forgotten in special operations is all of the ancillary, ancillary personnel that actually make the job possible. I don't service the vehicles, the helicopters, I don't fly the helicopters, I don't put them together, I don't buy the bullets, you know, all of the stuff that we have, the support personnel, the, uh, Traditional conventional military forces that are the battlespace owners that we come in and honestly, a lot of the times cause problems because we come and we smash shit. And they're the ones who are living there and they have to deal with it.

• 22:34Speaker 01

  Special operations wouldn't exist without them. But there is, like, like we say in the Navy, there is a difference in the job that I had and then somebody who does, let's say, 20 years on an aircraft carrier. That job probably in many ways is harder than the job that I did. But it's unlikely that they will be asked to go somewhere in a remote location and potentially give their life for their buddy in one of those. It's so, you know, I mean, it's different.

• 22:58Cameron Hanes?

  It is. It's important, but it's different.

• 23:00Speaker 01

  It's, they're both equally important and one can't exist without the other. But the military has so many little subsections and divisions and so many differences. A lot of times people paint it with a broom and like, oh, it's just all gray. I'm like, huh, there's some blue, there's some green, there's, it's, it's tough.

• 23:16Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, yeah, no, I, um, I get that. And so, and speaking of then today's climate, you know, I asked you about the, you know, younger guys coming in, whether they still got what it takes compared to like the older generations, you say they do. So I'm wondering though, what does, are we at war? I can't remember if we're at war or if this is a skirmish, what is it? But does, does a situation like this, how does that impact people serving? Like when they see that the public, like in, from what I see, and I don't know if this is my algorithm, but not very many people are on board with this war. How does that, for people who are serving, you wanna, I don't know, I, I don't know.

• 24:00Cameron Hanes?

  You tell me how, how it feels, but what is a situation or, or an environment like this do to people in the military right now?

• 24:08Speaker 01

  Before I answer that, I think it's important for people to realize this country hasn't actually declared war since World War II. But things like Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, Venezuela, what's going on right now? Those things are still happening. Post nine eleven, it's been the use of the authorized use of military force, AUMF. And every president, in my opinion, since that has been put into place, has manipulated it and operated outside of the boundaries of what I think it was designed for. So we might be involved in what looks like wartime activities.

• 24:42Cameron Hanes?

  Not a war.

• 24:43Speaker 01

  Technically, not a war.

• 24:45Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 24:46Speaker 01

  Which begs the question, how is that possible?

• 24:49Cameron Hanes?

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• 25:32Cameron Hanes?

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• 26:15Cameron Hanes?

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• 26:23Cameron Hanes?

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• 27:03Cameron Hanes?

  not something overly processed. Each stick has 20 grams of protein and it's a big one at 2.2 ounces. So when you've been putting in miles, climbing and grinding all day, it actually gives you something back. It's not just a quick bite. It's real fuel that holds you over and helps you recover. I still eat the same way I always have and nothing is replacing that. But when I need something quick that still lines up with how I live and train, this is what I reach for. Mountain Ops Big Stick. Get 20% off today using code CAM at mountainops.com.

• 27:40Speaker 01

  How can you essentially be at war without being at war? I thought our system was based off of checks and balances. Is it not? What do we have going on? Now to answer your question to the warfighter?

• 27:52Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 27:56Speaker 01

  If I'm being like brass tacks honest, nobody really wants war except for the people that fight it.

• 28:07Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 28:08Speaker 01

  And I, and I think a lot of people won't understand that, but as a young service member in an occupation like that.

• 28:15Speaker 01

  You don't want to die, but you want to be tested.

• 28:17Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 28:18Speaker 01

  You want to go and it'd be like going to the bow rack and that's all you ever did for 30 years. But you hear other stories of the people that came before you who were out bow hunting.

• 28:27Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, killing bulls.

• 28:29Speaker 01

  You're like, what is?

• 28:30Cameron Hanes?

  Practicing.

• 28:30Speaker 01

  You have a paper bowl though, right? You're like, oh, that thing is always broadside. How hard could this be? And it's, it's probably not a healthy mindset, but I understand it.

• 28:38Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 28:39Speaker 01

  You, you are, you're seeking out crucibles. You're going into that career field and you want to be tested. What I find is interesting is that after those people, and I'll put myself in this category. After some time there and after you get out and get a little bit of time away from the machine. You start getting real hesitant about committing American forces to environments like that because you understand the costs to a degree that I don't think you did when you first got in there. So to answer your question about how it's impacting people. It depends. People actively serving.

• 29:15Speaker 01

  I would say maybe less of an impact, maybe, maybe more of an impact when they come to the end of their contracts that they're on. The retention might go down and I'll be curious to see what happens when it comes to enlistment numbers. I think that's where you'll see those metrics, but I would say the vast majority of people specifically in combat arms.

• 29:33Speaker 01

  Are tightening up their bootstraps.

• 29:35Cameron Hanes?

  And so I think what I heard you say, and this is what I would believe too, is that it's different. When we say warfighters, are we talking about guys going out, doing the hardcore shit as opposed to like, those are forward type forces as opposed to like support type people?

• 29:51Speaker 01

  Cause one can't exist without the other. However, the job responsibilities are different.

• 29:55Cameron Hanes?

  And the, and the mindset, because I know when Tanner was in, it's like they used like they're making him get the COVID shot or whatever. He wasn't going to do it and they, they're supposed to be going deployment and they said, we can't go in deployment if you don't get the vaccine. So he got it because it's like, that's all they care about. To your point, all, all they, all the, the only reason they're in is to be deployed and go fight. And so he's like, didn't want the vaccine, but did it because he couldn't imagine his guy. Guys going over there, something happened and he wasn't there. So they use that to pressure them in because they know that guys like Rangers or SEALs is like, they would do anything to go. That's all they care about.

• 30:36Speaker 01

  As weird as that sounds, yes.

• 30:38Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 30:39Speaker 01

  And then when you get older, you start thinking about the younger generation like, hey, hold on, mister who's not going to listen to me because I was your age one, pump the brakes, let's think twice. You start thinking a lot more strategically, I would say about the bigger picture than you do when you're in, which is like this super myopic tactical focus.

• 30:56Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. So, so, but then I was thinking like, so the people who aren't with that mindset to go and to kill the bad guys, because most people aren't killing the bad guys essentially. They are, you said they're just as important, which I agree, but they're not. It's just different. It's different. So for those people, I was wondering like, they're more susceptible to being impacted by maybe what's going on back home. Maybe, I don't know.

• 31:19Speaker 01

  It'd be, I can't really, I would have to hypothesize or make a total wild ass guess on that.

• 31:25Cameron Hanes?

  I just hate people, I hate thinking about people who volunteered to be in like what we call the greatest army in the world. They volunteered to do it. And now I hate that this climate would make them think that they made a mistake. Or maybe people don't want to, like their job isn't valued.

• 31:42Speaker 01

  So anecdotally, I can say that some of that has to exist because I've been getting emails from people in the military or those thinking about going into the military. And they'll ask for my thoughts on the current conflict and I always respond the same way, like, listen, my thoughts actually don't matter because I'm not the one looking at either exiting military service or signing on the dotted line. You have to ask yourself, what do you want out of military service? I do think there is a stark difference. You and I are old enough to remember nine 11 and the pictures of people around the block at recruiting stations, not everywhere. But let's just say the Marine Corps had a great numbers month, probably September and October and November and December of 2001.

• 32:23Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 32:24Speaker 01

  I'm not seeing those pictures now.

• 32:26Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 32:26Speaker 01

  And I'm hearing, you know, after nine 11, just about every allied country associated with the US, if not every allied country associated with the US was like, hey, what do you need? You want to go some people up? Let's go, we'll take my car. That's not the environment right now either.

• 32:46Cameron Hanes?

  Right now, we can't get anybody to do anything.

• 32:48Speaker 01

  And again, I'm, I am not an expert in. Strategic, anything, global politics, but I think it's an interesting data point that things are different. And I think that we should look at that and people way smarter than me should probably go figure out why that's happening.

• 33:04Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 33:05Speaker 01

  Cause it is different.

• 33:07Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. Don't you think it's the commander in chief and calling out saying NATO is worthless? All these countries are cowards. Can't believe you're not doing anything. Oh, hey, we need your help. Wait, you don't want to help? After I just raked you over the coals? What are you talking about? You don't want to help? I just, I mean, I'm no expert.

• 33:25Speaker 01

  I can't see it being helpful.

• 33:26Cameron Hanes?

  I'm no expert on foreign diplomacy either, but I, I know how

• 33:34Cameron Hanes?

  communication works.

• 33:35Speaker 01

  I always view stuff like that. I try to pull it back to at least something I have experience with. So I look at it from the lens of being a father.

• 33:42Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 33:42Speaker 01

  If I were to, like, how, my kids, right? If I were to talk to my kids that way and tell them what I don't know necessarily, a perfect tie in as an analogy, but whatever, something happens and that's the feedback that I give them publicly and privately, and then turn around and say, I need your support and I need it right now.

• 34:01Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 34:02Speaker 01

  You know, as a parent, that's not, that's not going to work.

• 34:04Cameron Hanes?

  It's a tough sell.

• 34:04Speaker 01

  It's a real tough sell. Or try that in business where people are not related to you by blood, who they have for even less sense of obligation. I don't understand it.

• 34:15Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm. Me neither. I have a hard time not being pissed, uh, depressed, kind of sometimes, like, what the is going on? Um, what's your attitude on it? Like, what, how, what do you think about, like, where we're at and kind of the language the president is using with his tweets and posts and things like that, talking about the Iranian people and just a humanitarian aspect of it?

• 34:46Speaker 01

  All I can say is it deviates from every leadership characteristic that I was ever taught. And I've worked for leaders who spoke in that way. Sometimes their behavior was a little bit better than their speech. Sometimes it directly aligned with it. And getting people to be bought in was really tough. Getting people to give their last measure is really tough. I, I, I think our country, I know our country is gonna survive. I think every generation is like, this is it.

• 35:18Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 35:18Speaker 01

  You know, like for my dad's generation was probably electricity. He's like, oh, we're right. He's not that old, but he's getting pretty old.

• 35:25Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 35:26Speaker 01

  Or, you know, one of the stories I heard told once is that, you know, the printing press was originally thought it was gonna destroy intelligence.

• 35:33Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 35:33Speaker 01

  And in the end of the day, right? And it, but it was just a new technology and people are saying this now about the internet. Like, we're gonna figure it out. Our country, I think, is durable enough to survive just about every administration. But I don't think that that means that we should have free license to drive it to the farthest point of the cliff and take a look over that. I don't see the utility in doing that. Because for every four year cycle, one, there seems to be an opposite rebound in the other direction. But two, why, why push it that far? Where if you have a sneeze, the next thing you know, one of the tires is over the edge. Why do that?

• 36:11Cameron Hanes?

  I don't know.

• 36:11Speaker 01

  I don't either.

• 36:12Cameron Hanes?

  It's a game of chicken, it feels like. And Iran, you know, them dying is like a great honor. They would love to be killed.

• 36:20Speaker 01

  Probably depends on who you ask.

• 36:21Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 36:22Speaker 01

  Belief systems.

• 36:22Cameron Hanes?

  For some of them, for some of them. But I just, this whole situation has me wondering.

• 36:31Cameron Hanes?

  I've always thought we were the good guys, right? I wanted to believe that. I thought we were. That was a messaging that, that I was receiving back. Like when Tanner joined the army, very proud. I'm like, this is amazing. I'm very proud of my son to serve our country, greatest country in the world. I love America. Stuff like going on right now, I'm wondering, are we the good guys or are we the bad guys?

• 36:55Speaker 01

  I think it would have depended who you ask for the last 250 years. Because even in the moments, I think we were the most pristine beacon for what freedom and possibility could be at the expression of that. You always have another side of the coin. So depending on, you want to use Iran as an example, or

• 37:18Speaker 01

  radical religious sects that are sect, S E C T S, not S E X S. Very different parties, very different parties, for sure.

• 37:31Speaker 01

  A lot of those have very anti-Western views. Right? And so you're never going to get to a place where everybody agrees, like, you know what? The US is this beacon, and this is everything we can be, and this is, and this is awesome.

• 37:43Speaker 01

  I still believe we're the greatest country in the world. I think we're just having some speed wobbles right now. And I don't know why, but I don't think the skateboard is going to destroy itself.

• 37:51Cameron Hanes?

  Okay, well, good. I hope you're right. I wonder sometimes. Like today at eight PM Eastern, I wonder.

• 37:59Speaker 01

  I wonder sometimes too, but also

• 38:03Speaker 01

  is there benefit to getting to that point sometimes in your life where you got to sit down and question and reflect? Like, I think it's a good thing that you and I will sit down and be like, what in the hell does it actually mean to be an American? I thought we were supposed to be this, and now it appears that we're doing this. And what's interesting is that you and I can have that conversation, and I could have that with somebody who is staunchly on the other side of my religious beliefs. And I'd be like, okay, at the end of the day, like, I think I understand where you come from. I'm not going to try to kill you over your beliefs, because guess what? That's part of what this country is founded on as well. And then you go online, and no part of that listening aspect is there. It's just people yelling at each other in hatred and negativity. It's wild out there, man.

• 38:40Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, no, I, I'm just blown away by just everything right now. I just, I can't, you know, the generals being let go, the Secretary of War.

• 38:52Speaker 01

  There are, so the US military is very top-heavy from a leadership perspective.

• 38:56Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 38:57Speaker 01

  The officer ranks are very top-heavy as well. I don't think it's a bad thing on both the enlisted and officer side, that they actually take a look at what is needed versus what is there.

• 39:07Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 39:07Speaker 01

  It's okay to trim a little bit of the fat in the military.

• 39:10Cameron Hanes?

  During a war?

• 39:12Speaker 01

  We're not at war cam.

• 39:13Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, right. No, during a skirmish?

• 39:15Speaker 01

  Well, I, we do have to look up how many admirals and generals there are. I think we can absorb losing a couple. Now, I'm not saying you should fire them just for like general purpose.

• 39:24Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. So, but what the general public probably thinks is that they were opposed to whatever the president wanted. So they're gone.

• 39:33Speaker 01

  That could be true, but because there's almost no transparency about why the action took place. And even if there was, would people believe it?

• 39:40Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I don't believe anything nowadays.

• 39:43Speaker 01

  So where does that leave us though? I can't believe anything.

• 39:45Cameron Hanes?

  No. So what, when I see something on my phone now, that's just, I'm like, nah, probably not true. Probably not real. So it's like, it's like 10 different, check 10 different places. Try to get like some common thread of something similar in each of the messaging. And they're like, okay, maybe this, this is probably what it is, but you can't just read something and think that, God, can you believe this? No, you can't believe that because it's probably not real. So it's such a crazy time on, I don't know what to believe.

• 40:19Speaker 01

  The more time I spend off my phone, the better I feel.

• 40:22Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, for sure.

• 40:23Speaker 01

  In January, I did, uh, have you ever met Chad Wright? You have to.

• 40:27Cameron Hanes?

  Uh, have I met him?

• 40:28Speaker 01

  Long beard.

• 40:29Cameron Hanes?

  No, I know who he is.

• 40:30Speaker 01

  He's the Forrest Gump of the Navy SEALs.

• 40:32Cameron Hanes?

  No, I've, uh,

• 40:32Speaker 01

  He's amazing.

• 40:33Cameron Hanes?

  I've corresponded with him. I, I saw him at, I went to America Fest like years ago. Um, and he was speaking there.

• 40:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:41Cameron Hanes?

  So I saw that.

• 40:42Speaker 01

  Such a cool dude. He came on the show, I think it was in December and we, we started talking about screen time and we both pulled out our phones. It was not an impressive moment. It was not, and so we had a pact in January, which by the way, I fully dominated him every single one of the weeks. It's not a big deal. We don't have to celebrate it, but

• 41:00Cameron Hanes?

  Or even bring it up.

• 41:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, but I mean, some things should be brought up and people should be ashamed.

• 41:04Cameron Hanes?

  Let's not bring up that you dominated him on the screen.

• 41:07Speaker 01

  Every week, every week.

• 41:09Cameron Hanes?

  We, we won't bring it up.

• 41:10Speaker 01

  One hour per day is what we were trying to get ourselves to.

• 41:13Cameron Hanes?

  That's good.

• 41:14Speaker 01

  It was actually really damn hard to do it, especially if you have any type of crossover in business online.

• 41:22Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 41:23Speaker 01

  And it was just phones that we were tracking. Cause you can do a lot of this stuff on laptops, but I tell you what I found. A lot of the time wasting stuff on your phone is way less sticky on your laptop by design. So you spend way less time doing it.

• 41:35Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 41:35Speaker 01

  So the final week, I think I got to forty nine minutes. It was the healthiest I had felt in as long as I can remember.

• 41:44Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 41:45Speaker 01

  And that's the only thing I changed that month.

• 41:48Cameron Hanes?

  Well, I mean, I'm sure there's something to it because we just get addicted to like, what's going on now? What's going on now? What's the latest? Did you hear anything? What would you know? It's like, especially with this, this not war thing. It's like, you never know. I mean, you expect to like, look, say, you know, and read about a nuke or something. So it's like, it's hard not to, not to like, okay, now what? You know what I mean?

• 42:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:13Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, it's, it's definitely healthy, healthier not to be on it for sure.

• 42:17Speaker 01

  I also find that the interactions that I have with people online are very different than I have in my real life.

• 42:24Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, definitely.

• 42:25Speaker 01

  Just the way people talk to each other.

• 42:28Speaker 01

  Disagreements are actually really civil, but also the, the verbal word is way better because when you can hear the inflection and

• 42:34Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 42:35Speaker 01

  Anybody out there maybe had a text misinterpreted by their significant other, not that I ever have. You're like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Just start smashing the call button because you're like, it's not what I meant.

• 42:44Cameron Hanes?

  So pissed off. Yeah, I know. It's a, man, I don't know. It's, I know I've got a lot of hate since I've been kind of critical on the administration with this war and all that. It's a, I love blocking people. It's so fun because

• 43:00Speaker 01

  It provides dopamine for you?

• 43:02Cameron Hanes?

  They don't know. I mean, I don't know them, so I don't give a whether they follow me, right? So it's so fun to think about block, delete whatever gay message they sent. And I never have to see their face or name again. I don't even know who they are. And, and to think about them going to their phone to try to go to my page and be like,

• 43:21Speaker 01

  What? Wait. Hey, does, is Cameron Hedges page, did he delete it?

• 43:26Cameron Hanes?

  No, just you dumb. That's fine.

• 43:29Speaker 01

  A lot of them though probably tell themselves like, yeah, I got Cam. He couldn't take the smoke that I was bringing.

• 43:35Cameron Hanes?

  Just, no, I just love it. I love, and the dumber they are, the more I enjoy it.

• 43:40Speaker 01

  I think this country was founded on people being able to be idiots in the public square and you bring all ideas to the middle. And you bring ideas into the light because the cockroaches scurry away. It, it's, uh, yeah, man, I don't know. The internet is the best, worst thing human beings have ever created.

• 43:59Cameron Hanes?

  So powerful. It is, it is a very useful tool. I mean, it's changed all our lives.

• 44:04Speaker 01

  Hundred percent.

• 44:05Cameron Hanes?

  But God dang, it can be a crazy place too.

• 44:08Speaker 01

  You have to make sure it's working for you and not the other way around. That's kind of what January taught me.

• 44:13Cameron Hanes?

  Janu-, oh yeah, you're, you're, uh, so it's almost like a sober October.

• 44:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, except.

• 44:20Cameron Hanes?

  Not sober, not October and not alcohol.

• 44:22Speaker 01

  They don't even do that anymore. Why don't they do that anymore?

• 44:25Cameron Hanes?

  They're not tough. They're too weak. Joe's too weak, right?

• 44:29Speaker 01

  That's what I've heard is what he's known for.

• 44:33Cameron Hanes?

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• 45:16Cameron Hanes?

  He cares about quality, doing things the right way, and about building products here in the USA that actually perform in the field. That's why I trust this knife. If you want to check it out, head to MontanaKnifeCompany.com and right now, podcast listeners, get 10% off any knife with code CAM10. C I M 10.

• 45:39Cameron Hanes?

  To keep hammering pack out, built for the backcountry, built to work. We've got a limited, all-black pack out dropping January 8th. Quantities are tight and they won't last. Get yours now. I've been shooting Hoyt for over 20 years now, and they're a lifetime partner of mine. That's not something I take lightly. I stay with partners that prove themselves, and Hoyt continues to do that year after year. They shattered the industry standards and built the AX90, the first 90-pound bow to exist and be offered to consumers. Why? Because they have pioneered more advancements in archery than any other company of their time. That's why I work with them, because they are the best.

• 46:24Cameron Hanes?

  For me, I want the most energy I can shoot in a bow. I want a heavy arrow hitting hard. To do that, I like to shoot 90 pounds. I shoot a 90-pound bow because I want a hard-hitting arrow delivered with enough force to push through, say, a rib or the edge of a shoulder blade. Because it's bow hunting. Not every shot is going to be perfect. But when the animal reacts, or maybe I don't make the most perfect shot, I still want to deliver a lethal arrow, and a 90-pound bow gives me more room for error. If you shoot 60 and I shoot 90, I will kill every animal you will kill at 60 pounds, but you won't kill every animal I will at 90.

• 47:09Cameron Hanes?

  That's just the way it goes. That's why I shoot the most poundage I can, and for me, that's a 90-pound bow. You can't pull 90? Don't worry, most people can't. Hoyt makes bows for hunters at all levels, and they're all the best on the market. Hoyt will never rest on their laurels and bring subpar products to the market, and that's why I love working with them. The 90-pound bow to multiple iterations, and while I was impatient, they were not. They wanted it perfected. That's who they are, and that tells you a lot about the people working there. Unfortunately, they don't offer discounts on bows, but if you want to grab some Hoyt merch or selected accessories, you can use my code CAM for 20% off.

• 47:52Cameron Hanes?

  If you're serious about archery and you want something you can rely on, shoot a Hoyt. Go find one at your local dealer, just like the bow rack here down the street from me, and try it for yourself. Get serious, get Hoyt, and keep hammering.

• 48:08Cameron Hanes?

  Do you know Joe Kent?

• 48:11Speaker 01

  Only met him in person one time.

• 48:13Cameron Hanes?

  What, what did you think of that situation?

• 48:16Speaker 01

  I don't know what to make of it. And then, to be honest with you, that is my favorite answer as I get older. Did you see Chappelle's last comedy special?

• 48:24Cameron Hanes?

  No.

• 48:25Speaker 01

  First off, that dude can tell a joke. Yeah. Nobody's business.

• 48:29Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 48:29Speaker 01

  But what, one of the things I love about comedy is that you can nest really important societal conversations inside of those narratives.

• 48:36Cameron Hanes?

  And he does a good job of that.

• 48:37Speaker 01

  Does a great job of it. And he was talking about, I don't know, is a completely acceptable answer.

• 48:45Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm.

• 48:46Speaker 01

  And the world we're living in being bombarded by people saying the opposite of that. I know for sure. Instead of, I feel.

• 48:53Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm.

• 48:54Speaker 01

  I think. I hope. Those are way different things than saying, I know. And what he basically said at the end of it was, he's really uncomfortable and distrustful of anybody who says with any level of authority, that I know. Because how much do we really know?

• 49:10Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm.

• 49:11Speaker 01

  I have no idea what Joe got his eyeballs on.

• 49:15Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm.

• 49:16Speaker 01

  Immediately, and I knew this was going to happen. He was attacked and it was like, oh, he was going to get fired for leaking information anyway. I have seen no validity to that claim, but man, that, that led the headlines. His wife was somehow compromised, so therefore he was being manipulated via her. I haven't seen any proof for that either, but it's amazing. These are like way up there on the headlines as this is happening. I don't know what he saw.

• 49:39Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm.

• 49:40Speaker 01

  And until, they're never going to disclose to us the raw data that he had the ability to take a look at. And since we don't have the ability to see what he saw, how can you say anything other than, I don't know?

• 49:53Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. Yeah. It's a, it definitely puts the administration in a tough spot because they're selling one message. He's saying, that's not accurate.

• 50:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:03Cameron Hanes?

  And then, in-

• 50:06Cameron Hanes?

  You know, from somebody on the outside looking in, then you like, is, is this true that the satellite imagery of that area has been like turned off? Like, we can't see, so this is what I read too. We can't see, we turned off like, say, Google imaging.

• 50:25Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 50:26Cameron Hanes?

  So we can't see the damage they've inflicted on our bases.

• 50:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, but it's not real time. There's usually like a 30 to 60 day lag.

• 50:32Cameron Hanes?

  I don't know. They say you can't look at that area now.

• 50:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, some people say the world's flat too, though.

• 50:37Cameron Hanes?

  It's true. So there's that. But then, so even with messaging with Joe saying, no, there was no nuclear threat there. Everybody else saying there was uranium, blah, blah, blah. If you even look at like even the latest example of like the pilot rescue, there's two completely different narratives on that. Iran's saying that we were going after the uranium. It failed. They stopped it. We're covering it with this rescue of the pilot.

• 51:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:08Cameron Hanes?

  That's one example. Two completely different stories. How would any of us know what the to believe about anything?

• 51:15Speaker 01

  Maybe that's the goal, is to paralyze people through absolute lack of reasonable information. So we all get to this place of general malaise and like, just whatever. We're just cows being sheltered along.

• 51:30Cameron Hanes?

  Hurted.

• 51:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:32Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. We need, oh, but if cows could pay taxes.

• 51:35Speaker 01

  A lot of taxes.

• 51:36Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. So they, we're just cattle, but we got money that they take.

• 51:42Speaker 01

  People should Google the tax rate that the Revolutionary War was started over.

• 51:48Cameron Hanes?

  At 3% or something?

• 51:49Speaker 01

  At a peak levels.

• 51:50Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 51:51Speaker 01

  In comparison to what tax rates currently are.

• 51:53Cameron Hanes?

  I know, I pay like 50.

• 51:55Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, that's because you're wildly successful and it must be nice, Cam.

• 51:59Cameron Hanes?

  No, we got a new, we got a new thing. What's our new must be nice? Didn't you say you had a new one?

• 52:04Speaker 01

  I do. Yeah. When people say it must be nice, they're like, hey,

• 52:08Speaker 01

  you have a helicopter, it must be nice. I just write back, you have no idea how nice it is. It's probably 10x nicer than you think.

• 52:15Cameron Hanes?

  I love that.

• 52:16Speaker 01

  That unwinds some people.

• 52:18Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, no, that's perfect. Yeah. It's a, you know, this, this misinformation or disinformation or AI or like all this time where we don't know what we're looking at, whether it's real or not. Maybe this has always happened. Um, and they're just way better at it now, but man, it's, it's crazy.

• 52:38Speaker 01

  It is crazy, but I would hope it, it gets to the place where people realize they should be slower to act than faster.

• 52:45Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 52:45Speaker 01

  Because if you can't be sure, why would you make a bold, committed move on something that you are not sure is actually real? Like, give it a beat. Just give it a beat.

• 52:54Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 52:56Speaker 01

  Yeah. The pilot one is interesting. I had heard that narrative of the nuclear material. But I also thought though, that last year when we did the bombing, that we had destroyed the nuclear material creation capability.

• 53:08Cameron Hanes?

  Forever obliterated.

• 53:10Speaker 01

  That, and then this, and this is where it's like, man, this, this control of narrative, like, is this accidental? Is this intentional? Are either one of those actually a good thing? Is this something? I don't know, man.

• 53:22Cameron Hanes?

  Well, I just get confused. They say regime change, liberate the Iranians. That's our mission. And then another statement would be like, we want the oil. We want all the oil and, you know, wipe them all out.

• 53:36Speaker 01

  Very different statements.

• 53:37Cameron Hanes?

  From the same person. So.

• 53:39Speaker 01

  Very different statements.

• 53:41Cameron Hanes?

  I mean, I just don't, the messaging is nuts.

• 53:44Speaker 01

  The, what do they call? It's never a tweet. It's whatever the truth.

• 53:48Cameron Hanes?

  Truth social. Yeah.

• 53:49Speaker 01

  Today, an entire, an entire population is going to be annihilated. First sentence, I totally murdered what that said. Last sentence, God bless the Iranian people. There was some stuff in between there, but as far as bookends go, whoa.

• 54:05Cameron Hanes?

  I just don't, so there's nobody back there who can rein him in?

• 54:10Speaker 01

  I don't know. I have never even. Smell the air that goes on in the, I don't understand. What I thought was, is that our country and the founding documents were designed

• 54:23Cameron Hanes?

  Some call a constitution.

• 54:24Speaker 01

  Indeed.

• 54:25Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 54:26Speaker 01

  Were designed to make sure that one person couldn't do that.

• 54:31Cameron Hanes?

  Mm hmm.

• 54:32Speaker 01

  Checks and balances.

• 54:33Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, yeah. Um, so tell me like, I'll just say when he was elected, you know, I voted for him, obviously. Um, his, when his cabinet choices came in, I was supportive. I thought that, okay, those are good, you know, Pam Bondi, of course Tulsi, I've, I've always loved Tulsi. Cash Patel, I wanted him in there, Dan Bongino, I was like, and now it's like, I mean, is anybody gonna make it through four years? I don't see anybody keeping their job for four years.

• 55:06Speaker 01

  Uh, if I were, I'm not a betting person, but if I was, I would put more money on nobody making it through four years.

• 55:13Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, and so what changes because was I duped on that these would be good candidates for these positions? Or, or what? It's like, cause then I listened to Pam Bondi talk about the Epstein files and I'm just like, wanna kill somebody?

• 55:29Speaker 01

  Hey, man, the Dow's over 50,000.

• 55:30Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, that's right. No, I don't want to kill anybody. I, I forgot, we're, we're balling out, so it's fine.

• 55:37Speaker 01

  Can you believe that she said that in front of, and in the back row were victims?

• 55:42Cameron Hanes?

  I know.

• 55:43Speaker 01

  Who raised their hand and said that they had never

• 55:45Cameron Hanes?

  Never been spoken to.

• 55:46Speaker 01

  So the move there, the way I look at that, I'm like, okay, what would I have done there? I would've said, you know what, senators, congressmen? I want to take a 15 minute break. And the reason I want to take that break is I'm gonna go over there with my staff and I'm gonna get names, phone numbers, email addresses, however the you're gonna get in contact with them. And you'll never be able to raise your hand again and say that you haven't talked to an investigator and then we'll get back. And what I wouldn't have said was anything about the stock market.

• 56:08Cameron Hanes?

  I just don't, so what happens? I mean,

• 56:13Cameron Hanes?

  you know, cause

• 56:14Speaker 01

  Like, how does she say that?

• 56:15Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, well, it's like, I, I get that these people, they know. I, I mean, I would think for myself, I don't care who's telling me what, I'm gonna say how I, what I feel. I don't care what happens or who's gonna, who's telling me I can't say it. Like in that situation, if Trump said, hey,

• 56:38Cameron Hanes?

  Deflect to the Dow, stock markets, that's more important. Don't talk about the victim. I'd be like, no way.

• 56:45Speaker 01

  And that's why you'll never be in a position for that job, Tim.

• 56:48Cameron Hanes?

  So how does, why does somebody bow down to that? Is that because they want that position and it's just like, it's an ego play?

• 56:56Speaker 01

  That would be my guess.

• 56:59Cameron Hanes?

  And.

• 56:59Speaker 01

  And they, and, and let's give them the benefit of the doubt. Maybe they, maybe they think it'll be different for me. I can make a difference.

• 57:08Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 57:09Speaker 01

  I'm not going to be susceptible to these things. I've never lived a second in any of those roles.

• 57:14Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 57:15Speaker 01

  But even if you want to be gracious, like I look at how she, how or why she would mention the Dow in that particular hearing, and they are so just non sequitur things. Like how in the is that coming up? And what I land on is she was given talking points that she had to stay inside of.

• 57:31Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 57:32Speaker 01

  And if you get outside of those talking points, your job and tenure here is probably going to come to an end pretty soon.

• 57:38Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 57:39Speaker 01

  And yeah, at that point, I mean, you're stuck.

• 57:43Cameron Hanes?

  So they're, they're basically threatened. It's a threat.

• 57:46Speaker 01

  Probably, I mean, I bet you it's passive aggressive.

• 57:49Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, for sure.

• 57:50Speaker 01

  Passive aggressive for sure. But yeah, I mean, what's good, you know, I would imagine the role of Attorney General is pretty prestigious.

• 57:56Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 57:57Speaker 01

  Head of DHS, pretty prestigious. And yeah, it's taken from you and probably based on the history of how the current president talks about people on their way out, it may not be painted very well.

• 58:10Cameron Hanes?

  No, no. You know, then on the, so on the other side,

• 58:17Cameron Hanes?

  as I said, I'm friends with Tulsi and, you know, she's come under question too, because she was so anti-war forever. And it's like she was all, especially Iran, she talked about like, you know, how much bigger they were, how much more capable they were than Iraq or Afghanistan. And it's like,

• 58:37Cameron Hanes?

  So then she's, you know, she's put in that position to testify about this, this nuclear arms potential.

• 58:45Speaker 01

  Really interesting choices of words, too.

• 58:49Cameron Hanes?

  Very, and I'm on her side. So I'm like, listening through this lens of she's, she's just saying that, you know, she provided the information to Trump, it's his decision as a president. And, and my thing is like,

• 59:02Speaker 01

  Not only his decision.

• 59:03Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 59:04Speaker 01

  His decision alone.

• 59:05Cameron Hanes?

  Right, so.

• 59:06Speaker 01

  Only the president can determine whether or not a threat is imminent.

• 59:10Cameron Hanes?

  That's, and that's the way I understood it. So I'm like, Tulsi did her job. She gathered the information. Here's the pertinent information. Here's what we found. There was, there is no threat, but here's the information. You have to decide whether there's an imminent threat or not. Right? In her opinion, she said no. So to me, she did her job. And so I'm siding on with her, but some people would say that, you know, she should have resigned, you know? And then,

• 59:41Speaker 01

  Who are you gonna get replaced with?

• 59:43Cameron Hanes?

  What I would say to that is like, I could see her in that position, and I haven't talked to her about it, but say that you can't make a difference if you quit. So is she, does she believe that she can make a positive difference and help, help steer this in, in the right direction or correct direction, in her opinion, by being involved? Because if she's not there, then what?

• 1:00:03Speaker 01

  That would be my assumption.

• 1:00:04Cameron Hanes?

  Especially after Joe left, too. Cause you know, then it's like two people who I, in my opinion, from the outside, be like, this seem like high quality people. I want them involved.

• 1:00:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:15Cameron Hanes?

  Then if he's gone, she's gone, then who? Just a, some talking head that would do whatever?

• 1:00:21Speaker 01

  That whole situation is weird. I, I reached out to some people who worked in the intelligence world, and they essentially said that she was very selective in the way that she used her words. But the intelligence, uh, community individuals that I talked to were like, listen.

• 1:00:39Speaker 01

  Um, the intelligence community's job is to help them decide whether the threat is imminent or not, or come to the president and say, this is an imminent threat. Because what do we do if all of a sudden, if it's just, again, this one guy, he's like, Mexico is an imminent threat.

• 1:00:58Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:59Speaker 01

  So what now? What?

• 1:01:01Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, attack them?

• 1:01:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:03Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:04Speaker 01

  What about Canada?

• 1:01:05Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:06Speaker 01

  Or Greenland?

• 1:01:07Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 1:01:08Speaker 01

  Like, hold on a second here. I don't, I don't think that that's how the system is supposed to work.

• 1:01:10Cameron Hanes?

  The one guy making the call.

• 1:01:11Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 1:01:12Cameron Hanes?

  Well, yeah, and so, and then the, for people that would say, because people railed on her a little bit, saying, no, that's her job to say whether it's imminent or not. And I, in my, then I would rebut that with saying, she couldn't say, hey, they're an imminent threat, we need to go to war right now. And he'd be like, okay. No, it's still his decision.

• 1:01:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:33Cameron Hanes?

  So it doesn't matter what she says. He's going to make the decision. And so she could say, because you're saying that if she says there's no imminent threat, we should, that should dictate whether we go to war, then you're saying that if she says there is, then we're going to war no matter what else anybody says. And that's not true either.

• 1:01:51Speaker 01

  Neither of them are correct, because I don't think it should come down to one person. And this again goes to, how were we in Iraq and Afghanistan for 20 years and didn't declare war? This goes back to the authorized use of military force. And what it allows presidents, or in that case, an individual to do without much oversight.

• 1:02:09Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 1:02:10Speaker 01

  And if we're able to do all of this stuff, and it comes down to one person, and maybe or maybe not, we elected a crazy person, that's not good.

• 1:02:19Cameron Hanes?

  No. And it's what it feels like, where it feels like we're at right now. Um, yeah, I, I, man, that's pretty, pretty frustrating, but I hope.

• 1:02:35Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, because you think about is there just loophole after loophole? We talk about these checks and balances to keep everybody in line or to make sure we're not doing crazy things. But with so many like, oh, no, this isn't war. This is a skirmish. Yeah, we can't go to war without Congress approval, but this isn't a war. It's like, there's always like some weird loophole to get by it.

• 1:02:54Speaker 01

  Because we allow it.

• 1:02:55Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, and it's like, what, why is this okay? Why are people in Congress right now support or not? I don't know. I don't know what we do.

• 1:03:05Speaker 01

  I don't know either, man. I wish I had a good actionable solution or answer for people. I don't know, but I think the answer starts at a much more local level than screaming at the ocean and hoping your feet don't get wet instead of moving out of the way.

• 1:03:21Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:23Speaker 01

  I was recently sitting down with Andy Frisella, who's awesome, by the way, founder and owner of First Form. And we were talking about largely this type of stuff. And I asked him, I said,

• 1:03:32Cameron Hanes?

  Big fan of his too.

• 1:03:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, he's awesome. I said, do you think it's it's too far gone? And his answer was no. And he goes, I know how we're going to get out of this. And I said, well,

• 1:03:41Cameron Hanes?

  Let's hear it.

• 1:03:42Speaker 01

  Yeah. Would you mind sharing entrepreneurs is what he said? And I, and I was thinking about this.

• 1:03:50Speaker 01

  And I think he's right. So his business is large, hundreds of people. He sets the culture at his business. He brings in experts. He invests in his people to educate them additional job skills. I own a coffee shop in Kalispell. We have 40 people working for like in totality, not like serving coffee at one time.

• 1:04:13Speaker 01

  But they're all young, you know, 17 ish to early twenties. I get to set the culture of that store. I get to determine what type of leadership that I show to the people that work for me to have an impact in super malleable phases of their life that they can take wherever they go next and take it with them. So it's, I mean, again, this isn't a light switch. This solves all the problems. But for people who are like, I can't do anything about the government, so I'm not going to do anything. You need to look inward in where you're at and have an impact locally. You got a guy who works for you. You get to set the culture, right? On what you expect, what you're going to tolerate, what's acceptable language. You could invest in your people. That, that has real world impact.

• 1:04:57Speaker 01

  It's just a long time down the road. And I do believe that our country is strong enough to get us down that road. But if you really want to have an impact, stop screaming up at the moon and start looking around in the community that you live in.

• 1:05:09Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I, I think, didn't you used to have an old T-shirt that said, be the example?

• 1:05:14Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:05:14Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:15Speaker 01

  I did.

• 1:05:15Cameron Hanes?

  I used to wear that shirt, but that, that, those words are so key.

• 1:05:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:05:21Cameron Hanes?

  How, how do you want the world to be? How do you want people to behave? How do you want people to react? Be the example.

• 1:05:26Speaker 01

  In the book that I signed for you, at the bottom.

• 1:05:29Cameron Hanes?

  Thank you.

• 1:05:30Speaker 01

  It says, what you allow in your presence is your standard.

• 1:05:33Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 1:05:34Speaker 01

  Which is a bitch.

• 1:05:35Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:35Speaker 01

  Right. Another way you can say it is what you walk past is your standard. I don't walk past politicians. And I don't think it would go well if you did and you actually tried to hold them accountable. So I'm not saying do that. But in your own life, you know, how, how often, and I am so guilty of this. Oh, yeah, I'm just going to go ahead and complain about our politicians in my personal house is a mess.

• 1:05:55Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:55Speaker 01

  Right? Like, start, don't be shitting in your own kitchen. Like, let's make sure your own house is in order. I have three kids of my own that I can hopefully put out into the world. And they can do better than I did. You know, there is an ability to have an impact. It's just not at the level that each of us wants to have it at. But collectively, I actually think that's how we're going to reorient the direction the country goes.

• 1:06:17Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, no, I, I agree. Hundred percent agree with that. And there's another thing I always rely on, which I tell these guys sometimes. The standard is a standard.

• 1:06:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:06:25Cameron Hanes?

  Here's, here's what I expect. Get there, get out.

• 1:06:29Speaker 01

  What other accommodations do you have there, Cam, for people with differences?

• 1:06:32Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I mean, standard is a standard. There are no, I don't give a, but uh.

• 1:06:37Speaker 01

  I get that one all the time. What do you think about having women's seals? I'm like, listen, as long as the standards are exactly the same. And as long as the standards come from the real world demands of the job, not some bullshit made up standard.

• 1:06:48Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:49Speaker 01

  What does it actually require? These are our standards. Does a bullet flying through the air at thousands of feet per second? Give a shit what's between your legs? No. Okay. Does the guy to your left or right care? No. How are you going to get there to be on somebody's left or right? You either meet the standard or you do a different job.

• 1:07:07Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:08Speaker 01

  That's, that's all that matters.

• 1:07:09Cameron Hanes?

  I remember I was talking to Eddie Gallagher about standards and he's saying like Obama wanted to create more seals. I can't remember when this was.

• 1:07:18Speaker 01

  Obama wasn't the first one.

• 1:07:20Cameron Hanes?

  And he was like, so to get more, 500 more seals, you're, you're lowering the standard.

• 1:07:26Speaker 01

  Hypothetically, yeah.

• 1:07:28Cameron Hanes?

  And then, but in Eddie's point, I think is what he said is like, then those aren't seals.

• 1:07:33Speaker 01

  Like I said, you can go on Amazon. I'll send you a couple. I'm going to send you a dozen tridents, Cam. Give them to your guests. Be like, hey, just so you know, this is a part of.

• 1:07:41Cameron Hanes?

  Congratulations, you're a seal. Yeah, no.

• 1:07:44Speaker 01

  Potentially, that's how you have standards slip for sure. And it wasn't just in the seal community. They wanted to increase the number of special operations personnel. They were expecting that from Rangers, from the Marine recon, from Air Force PJ, CCT. And you just can't mass produce special operations. It's one of the known truths. It just takes time. Talk to your son about like, okay, cool. You, you made it through Ranger school and you did all these things. Did you feel like you were fully ready to go? They'd be like, no, maybe five years down the road, you're less of a danger to your friends and more of a danger to your enemy.

• 1:08:18Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:19Speaker 01

  So, yeah, I mean, that was, that was felt probably military wide. What I really like about specifically the seal community's response is they didn't modify the curriculum at all. And the throughput stayed exactly the same.

• 1:08:33Cameron Hanes?

  No, that's perfect.

• 1:08:34Speaker 01

  So, and I think they might've brought in more students, but mathematically, the averages held. So, you know what I mean? So, that would really be the only way, if you want to get more on the bottom end of the filter, you have to increase the size on the top. That's about it.

• 1:08:47Cameron Hanes?

  No, I get that. And I'm good with that.

• 1:08:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:49Cameron Hanes?

  Because as long as the standards stay in the same, then we're still getting the same type of, uh, you know. Yeah, for the military, it's getting what they need.

• 1:08:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:58Cameron Hanes?

  Um, yeah, just a crazy, crazy time. So you mentioned your coffee shop back there. How was like, tell me about your businesses. Like when I first learned of you, it was on Rogan talking about squirrel suit shit. Like, you know, flying off mounds in a squirrel suit.

• 1:09:16Speaker 01

  I call it gliding and not really flying. You are descending at all times, but.

• 1:09:19Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. So then, then we went skydiving and that was fun. Had, went to lunch at like Red Robin or something.

• 1:09:27Speaker 01

  Probably.

• 1:09:28Cameron Hanes?

  San Diego.

• 1:09:29Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:09:29Cameron Hanes?

  And that was cool. Seen you in camp now. Um, but yeah, so now you're like, got this Black Rifle Coffee thing going. You got your podcast. You got two podcasts. Is that right?

• 1:09:39Speaker 01

  I do, yeah.

• 1:09:39Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. Yeah. So tell me about what's, what's going on?

• 1:09:42Speaker 01

  Uh, so, so the ones I've been doing the longest, uh, the Cleared Hot Podcast, which you've been on twice.

• 1:09:47Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:47Speaker 01

  The last time I actually think I saw you, we were sitting over there.

• 1:09:50Cameron Hanes?

  Right there.

• 1:09:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:09:50Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:51Speaker 01

  On little chairs. Um, and it's funny because the first time I never heard your name and how I got into bow hunting was listening to you talk with Joe about bow hunting, which I texted him some pretty, you know, awesome and clear questions about what was bow hunting and what, what isn't. And so that kind of got me started in that. But so I, my own podcast, um, I do another one with a production company called Ironclad called Change Agents. You've actually been on that one too. It's shorter, an hour long on people who are looking to make positive changes. The coffee shop is just over three years at this point. And man, that was, what a journey.

• 1:10:28Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:29Speaker 01

  Because that was a blue sky build. That was all the way from getting the property that it's built on, finding an architect, starting from nothing, the permitting process, which is also known as taxes.

• 1:10:41Speaker 01

  Super seamless, by the way. Um, building that out, the build took almost a year in the middle of COVID, which was, I can't even fathom how much, we probably paid 40% more for that building.

• 1:10:53Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, man.

• 1:10:54Speaker 01

  Lumber quotes were coming in that were good for 24 hours.

• 1:10:57Cameron Hanes?

  Whoa.

• 1:10:58Speaker 01

  And it'd be up, it'd be up 40% the next day, down 60% the day after that. So like just blindfolded throwing a dart. Got that. I will say leadership in a coffee shop is harder than in the SEAL community.

• 1:11:11Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:11Speaker 01

  If you think about it, though, the guys I worked with, multiple crucibles, they had enlisted, gone through the same selection. They wanted to be there. My average employee, like I said, 16 to mid twenties.

• 1:11:22Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:23Speaker 01

  I'm not aware of anybody who wants to be a barista for 40 years. If they wanted to, awesome, but I know it's a part time job for most. I know they're going to pass through.

• 1:11:32Speaker 01

  If I treated them like we used to treat each other in the SEAL teams, I would never have somebody come to work. It'd be all no shows, no calls, just wholly unacceptable way to treat. And most of them were women, by the way, too. So a totally different dynamic. So I got that.

• 1:11:48Cameron Hanes?

  How's that? Is that hard?

• 1:11:50Speaker 01

  I hired a really good management team.

• 1:11:53Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 1:11:53Speaker 01

  There's a difference. But I mean, I am one of the owners of the shop.

• 1:11:55Cameron Hanes?

  Cause I'm good around guys. I'm not great around not guys.

• 1:12:01Speaker 01

  I have a 17 year old daughter, so she teaches me the vernacular and I'll go in there and throw out words that I don't understand. But I'm in there every day just to kind of make sure everybody sees me in there.

• 1:12:12Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:13Speaker 01

  And, and I help in, I help out as much as I can. Like if they're, if they're busy, I'm going to be the first person to go clean up a mess that somebody's going to have to clean up. And I don't do that accidentally. Because again, what you allow in your presence is your standard or what you walk past. And I want to show them that you don't have to wait to be asked to do that. Maybe just always be looking for work.

• 1:12:32Cameron Hanes?

  Well, when you walk by and you pick up a napkin, you know, on the floor.

• 1:12:37Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:12:37Cameron Hanes?

  Everybody sees that shit.

• 1:12:38Speaker 01

  And that's why you do it.

• 1:12:39Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. And it's just, and somebody has to do it.

• 1:12:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:12:42Cameron Hanes?

  So it's like, I'm the same way too. Like.

• 1:12:44Speaker 01

  And if you show them that the guy who's paying the bills is willing to do it too. I'm sorry, what was the excuse you were about to give me about how you don't want to do it?

• 1:12:51Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. I like that. It's, well, the shop looks, I mean, I've only seen pictures or maybe video, but it looks incredible.

• 1:12:58Speaker 01

  It's, I mean, I'm very happy.

• 1:13:00Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:00Speaker 01

  With what we built. We have three bowls up on the wall.

• 1:13:02Cameron Hanes?

  Nice.

• 1:13:03Speaker 01

  Two of them I shot. I wish you were there for the one that Mike Glover shot. I was. Crying. I was laughing so hard at him.

• 1:13:12Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:13Speaker 01

  Uh, we'll just say that make sure you use hunting ammo instead of target ammo.

• 1:13:18Cameron Hanes?

  Really? I didn't, what, I didn't, what's the difference?

• 1:13:22Speaker 01

  One makes a very small hole and doesn't expand at all.

• 1:13:26Cameron Hanes?

  Oh.

• 1:13:26Speaker 01

  The other one is designed to expand and do maximum damage.

• 1:13:29Cameron Hanes?

  I didn't even know they had target in.

• 1:13:31Speaker 01

  They do match grade ammo. Yes. It's for, there's a whole community of people out there who.

• 1:13:35Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, for the, for the shooting competitions?

• 1:13:36Speaker 01

  Okay. There's no reason, there's no reason for that ammo to be able to expand. So it's all for the ballistics.

• 1:13:42Cameron Hanes?

  Then it's like TAC.

• 1:13:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:13:44Cameron Hanes?

  So a lot of guys go to TAC, which is this total archery challenge, just long shots at ski resorts type thing. And you shoot light arrows that you wouldn't hunt with.

• 1:13:53Speaker 01

  But if you did, how many do you think you'd have to shoot a bull with?

• 1:13:56Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, right. So it's like, it's more like not for hunting, just for, for those, like the TAC thing. So I guess similar to that. I just don't do rifle stuff. So I didn't know.

• 1:14:06Speaker 01

  Just imagine having a quiver of field tips and how many would you have to?

• 1:14:11Cameron Hanes?

  So we got it killed.

• 1:14:13Speaker 01

  Oh, we got it done.

• 1:14:14Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:14Speaker 01

  I was.

• 1:14:15Cameron Hanes?

  Took a while.

• 1:14:16Speaker 01

  I couldn't even see straight. He's like, where am I hitting? I'm like, just keep shooting. I can't, I.

• 1:14:19Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, that's rough.

• 1:14:21Speaker 01

  It's one of my best friends. I'm just tears. Um, so yeah, we got, uh, the coffee shop is cool. Uh, one of these days I'll get you out there for sure. Have you back on the show. So we got the two podcasts. I got the coffee shop. The book.

• 1:14:34Cameron Hanes?

  Black belt jujitsu.

• 1:14:36Speaker 01

  Yeah. That's just recreational folding other people in their laundry.

• 1:14:39Cameron Hanes?

  That's cool though. I still, I still think it's cool.

• 1:14:42Speaker 01

  Jujitsu is awesome. It is, uh, it's how I met my wife.

• 1:14:45Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, she's a badass.

• 1:14:46Speaker 01

  She is legitimate, like world-class level competitor. Well.

• 1:14:52Cameron Hanes?

  Like one of the best in the world?

• 1:14:53Speaker 01

  At Blue Belt Adults, she was the best in the world. At Purple Belt, I think she podiumed and now she, she calls it the old lady division, the masters division, which in jujitsu, I think starts at like 27.

• 1:15:04Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. So come on.

• 1:15:05Speaker 01

  She's a multiple time masters, black belt champion as well too.

• 1:15:07Cameron Hanes?

  Really?

• 1:15:08Speaker 01

  Yeah. She's legit.

• 1:15:09Cameron Hanes?

  Geez, stud. Yeah, that's awesome.

• 1:15:12Cameron Hanes?

  God, you're just, I mean, you're kicking ass and now you're you're going, you're going on Joe's podcast. You've already been on Jaco's, you're doing Chris Willie, I think, are you doing Chris's for sure?

• 1:15:23Speaker 01

  Not for sure, but who knows?

• 1:15:23Cameron Hanes?

  We don't know.

• 1:15:24Speaker 01

  If, if I don't get to, and he hears this, that's your fault, Chris, and you should feel terrible.

• 1:15:28Cameron Hanes?

  So we got the book tour going on. I mean, it's just an exciting time and I want to see this hit the New York Times Bestseller, even though they're a bunch of liberal cocks.

• 1:15:37Speaker 01

  It's not gonna happen. It's not, nobody, I would love for it to happen. We were talking about this at lunch. I don't care about the monetary economics of the book.

• 1:15:46Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:47Speaker 01

  I don't have the ability to give Joe anything to say thank you.

• 1:15:52Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:52Speaker 01

  Other than doing everything that I can to make sure the book is as successful as possible. Same thing with Jaco. Like, what's, what am I gonna give Jaco? Or Jack? Like, I have nothing to offer them, other than being a good friend and saying, thank you in the manner of, you guys spent your time, energy and effort to help me with this. I'm gonna do everything I can to try to make it successful. But the NYT, I don't think they're huge fans of us.

• 1:16:21Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, we're not their demographic, but check this out. This is from Joe Rogan. If the world went completely sideways from a zombie virus outbreak and we had to put together a militia to save the human race, Andy Stumpf would be my top draft pick.

• 1:16:37Speaker 01

  That was, they, he wrote like three paragraphs. Yeah. What he wrote would cover that entire front page. It was so incredibly personal. And again, how do you, I'm sorry, like, Joe, hey, look what I just bought you. I'm like, what am I gonna buy Joe? He can't buy himself, you know what I mean?

• 1:16:52Cameron Hanes?

  I struggle with that because like I own so much too, you know, it's just like, would you give somebody who, I mean, if he wanted something, he'd have it.

• 1:17:00Speaker 01

  Your best effort.

• 1:17:01Cameron Hanes?

  I guess, yeah.

• 1:17:02Speaker 01

  I mean, honestly, that's all you can do.

• 1:17:03Cameron Hanes?

  Drown proof, eight life lessons to keep your head above water.

• 1:17:07Speaker 01

  So you can read just fine.

• 1:17:09Cameron Hanes?

  Jack Carr, who did make number one Times, New York Times bestselling author of Risk.

• 1:17:13Speaker 01

  Fiction list, though. Fiction.

• 1:17:15Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, that doesn't, do they count that? It's like a comic book.

• 1:17:18Speaker 01

  I feel like you and I could write a fiction book right now and be number one and two.

• 1:17:21Cameron Hanes?

  We love Jack. He's incredible. Just joking. Here's what he said. Drown Proof is a raw and honest look at the discipline and mindset required to overcome the challenges that confront us all. From the demanding world of special operations to the high stakes personal adventures to the world, world of business, this book shares harder earned wisdom for navigating life's toughest tests with a focus on resilience, self reliance and leadership. Drown Proof is an exploration of how to keep moving towards your goal no matter the odds. From Jack Carr. That's awesome. Last one, Jaco Willock, US Navy SEALs, number one, another number one New York Times bestselling author.

• 1:18:00Speaker 01

  For sure, for him, yeah.

• 1:18:02Cameron Hanes?

  He says, this book is not some Paul's version of Andy's life. Is that kind of a dig?

• 1:18:08Speaker 01

  No. Like I said with my wife, she was like, where's the hero arc in this story?

• 1:18:12Cameron Hanes?

  So that's very accurate then. Okay. It is a raw look at the mistakes, shortfalls and harsh lessons that shaped Andy to the person he is today. I think anyone reading this will be able to learn from his mistakes and prevent them from occurring in their own life. You know what? I thought that Jaco wrote this book. Didn't he say he wrote this?

• 1:18:31Speaker 01

  On Amazon, he is listed above me on the name of the author.

• 1:18:34Cameron Hanes?

  Well, no, I saw an Instagram post where he said he wrote this.

• 1:18:38Speaker 01

  That's because I called him out for stolen valor on a video, stolen author valor.

• 1:18:43Cameron Hanes?

  That's what it was.

• 1:18:44Speaker 01

  What's hilarious too is I didn't tell him I was gonna do that. And I don't think a lot of people mess with him, but he and I are actually very good friends.

• 1:18:50Cameron Hanes?

  You could tell he loved, he was like laughing.

• 1:18:52Speaker 01

  Yeah. So not many people are in a good spot. I didn't tell him I was gonna do that. And yeah, I was like walking to the mailbox. I don't know, like stolen valor. Bullshit. Author stolen valor. He made that the next day. I had nothing to do with it.

• 1:19:04Cameron Hanes?

  So, oh, that's hilarious. Yeah. Well, all that helps. This is all part of this awareness, this book thing, get this, the vibe going for the book, the excitement, the launch date. It's all so fun.

• 1:19:16Speaker 01

  It is pretty cool.

• 1:19:17Cameron Hanes?

  It's, it's like, what are we gonna, I mean, you know how many people have a goal of, I want to write a book someday. You know what I mean? It's a big deal.

• 1:19:25Speaker 01

  Two-year process.

• 1:19:26Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, it's a big deal. It's like, I'm pumped. It's like, and I want people, and there's no greater feeling than when you put something out and somebody says, oh, this impacted me. This made a difference.

• 1:19:35Speaker 01

  And if it doesn't, just keep that to yourself.

• 1:19:37Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:37Speaker 01

  If you're like, this book sucks. If this book sucks, I have a special email address. It's go yourself.com.

• 1:19:44Cameron Hanes?

  But if you can get this feedback, like, it makes people feel something, you know, you make them feel. That's, and it's like, that's, that's a powerful, powerful thing. And that's, I know people are gonna have that same, that, that feeling from this book, and I'm

• 1:19:58Speaker 01

  I hope so, man.

• 1:19:59Cameron Hanes?

  So now, this is the part everybody hates of this show.

• 1:20:03Speaker 01

  What's that?

• 1:20:03Cameron Hanes?

  We all, we don't even record this. It's gonna be deleted, but James has some stupid questions for you.

• 1:20:09Speaker 01

  Okay, what do you got, James?

• 1:20:11Speaker 02

  Oh, I'm gonna start off with a heavy hitter, then.

• 1:20:14Speaker 01

  My favorite color is blue.

• 1:20:16Speaker 02

  Have you ever played Mary kill?

• 1:20:19Speaker 01

  What?

• 1:20:20Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, Mary kill. So, is one night stand?

• 1:20:24Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:20:25Speaker 02

  Mary for the rest of your life?

• 1:20:27Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:20:27Speaker 02

  Kill, never again.

• 1:20:28Speaker 01

  Okay, is one of these choices gonna be Oprah?

• 1:20:32Cameron Hanes?

  Usually not people.

• 1:20:33Speaker 02

  They're usually not people.

• 1:20:35Cameron Hanes?

  They're endeavors, usually.

• 1:20:37Speaker 02

  Okay, so you're three to Mary kill, jujitsu?

• 1:20:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:41Speaker 02

  Wingsuiting, or your helicopter?

• 1:20:44Speaker 01

  Okay, hold on. I've, I've heard this played with people, but this is different with experiences.

• 1:20:49Cameron Hanes?

  So you've never done? Yeah, one, one more time.

• 1:20:52Speaker 01

  Okay, so is, you would do it one more time?

• 1:20:54Cameron Hanes?

  Yep.

• 1:20:55Speaker 01

  Mary is forever. Kill is what?

• 1:20:57Cameron Hanes?

  Never.

• 1:20:58Speaker 02

  Never again.

• 1:21:00Speaker 01

  Oh, man.

• 1:21:04Speaker 01

  I don't like this game.

• 1:21:07Speaker 01

  So the kill, I'll go with wingsuits, because I no longer have the ability to stay current and competent in that, so that's an easy one.

• 1:21:14Cameron Hanes?

  Good. I was gonna say that. I hope you never do that one again, because that's a little sketchy.

• 1:21:18Speaker 01

  I'll go do it right now, just to piss you off.

• 1:21:22Speaker 01

  I'll go book a trip to Switzerland right now.

• 1:21:23Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 1:21:24Speaker 01

  Uh, man, the other ones I really enjoy.

• 1:21:28Cameron Hanes?

  I can enjoy one once.

• 1:21:33Speaker 01

  We'll go with the helicopter once jujitsu for the rest of my life.

• 1:21:36Cameron Hanes?

  Okay, what about Margot Robbie?

• 1:21:39Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:21:41Speaker 02

  Oprah.

• 1:21:41Cameron Hanes?

  Oprah.

• 1:21:43Speaker 02

  Michelle Obama.

• 1:21:44Cameron Hanes?

  Jeez, yeah, let's do that.

• 1:21:49Speaker 01

  Hard pass on all three. I'm sticking with my wife.

• 1:21:54Cameron Hanes?

  That was probably smart. See, we bring people down. Do you have, you have anything else?

• 1:21:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, I got one more.

• 1:21:59Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 1:22:00Speaker 02

  Obviously, you've talked a lot about risk and danger being an important component for growth.

• 1:22:04Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:22:04Speaker 02

  I just kind of wanted to know how that opinion or that belief has been challenged as a father whose kids are now getting closer to the age where they start making those decisions on their own.

• 1:22:16Speaker 01

  So I would, I would probably clarify a little bit how I feel about that. Risk and danger, I don't think it is required. And I think a lot of people, I can use wingsuiting as an example, because a lot of people from the outside of that, they would look at that and be like, why would you do that? You're out of your mind. That is so incredibly dangerous. And I will not sit here and tell anybody that that is a safe activity.

• 1:22:37Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 1:22:38Speaker 01

  But I will say, I think it can be done as safely as possible. And what people never saw on a YouTube video or an Instagram video is that I would spend six months training to go to Switzerland for two weeks and then do an immense amount of jumps and maybe two of those would actually end up being posted somewhere. And in that, you are managing, assessing and controlling as much risk as possible. Can you get a better wingsuit? Can you get a better coach? What can you do to reduce the risk down to as low as possible? And then the question is, is the juice worth the squeeze? So it's not this cavalier approach to risk. Even, and

• 1:23:21Speaker 01

  even in my old job in the military, people like, oh, man, you guys must have been fearless. I'm like, I actually wouldn't want to work with somebody who's fearless because that would mean they're likely a sociopath or a psychopath.

• 1:23:31Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 1:23:31Speaker 01

  Like, the things they asked us to do were pretty dangerous sometimes. And if you're not scared, I have some questions for you. Like, first question, are you paying attention? Were you awake in the brief?

• 1:23:40Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:40Speaker 01

  Because this is, might be gnarly. And then the same, we do the same thing with a high risk operation is you analyze, assess and mitigate on risk. So it's this constant cycle of where's the risk? What can we do to mitigate it? What's the residual? Can we keep going and going and going until the risk threshold comes down? And on the first slide of every military operation, it lists the residual risk. A lower risk operation is probably going to be able to be approved at, let's say a battlespace commander level, something like going into Iran. I bet you that was a White House call because of the high level nature of that operation. And we can leave the narrative about was it for the nukes or rescue, whatever it was for them

• 1:24:24Speaker 01

  to go into Iran like that with the assets that they did in the daytime, by the way, very high risk. I bet you that was SecDef if not presidential approval on that one. And again, is the juice worth the squeeze on that? I have just found in my life, when I can get to places where I am exceptionally challenging myself to the limit, not over the limit, but to the limit of what I'm capable of, that's been the most rewarding times in my life.

• 1:24:54Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 1:24:55Speaker 01

  The things that I have not worked hard for are the ones that I value the least in my life.

• 1:25:00Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, that makes sense. I like that. Well, speaking of hard work and doing like what's, for, okay, I got two questions. What's the next goal? Like you do a lot of big things, right? It's like the SEAL, the, the wingsuit, the books, the coffee shops, the jujitsu, that's all like, that's big asks, right? So it feels like you need big shit to keep you, like keep this train going. What's, what's next?

• 1:25:32Speaker 01

  I mean, clearly I need another helicopter.

• 1:25:34Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, okay. Yeah. I just like, cause I'm, I can't do a regular life.

• 1:25:40Speaker 01

  I can't either.

• 1:25:40Cameron Hanes?

  I can't.

• 1:25:42Speaker 01

  But I bet you your life to you is regular. To me, I am the most regular person I know. I just do the stuff that I like.

• 1:25:47Cameron Hanes?

  Right, yeah.

• 1:25:48Speaker 01

  And what I like, apparently, most other people look at like sociopathic activities.

• 1:25:52Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I guess, I guess, I guess we're the same there.

• 1:25:55Speaker 01

  I'm normal to myself. I don't feel like I do anything that's crazy. I just am drawn to the things that I want to do. And then when I set that goal, a lot of people will look at all those steps and say, I'm not going to do that. I'm like, no, no, no, I'm going to do that. Let's just start getting to work.

• 1:26:11Cameron Hanes?

  Where did that come from?

• 1:26:13Speaker 01

  Uh, I think probably early on, working for my dad when I was like 10 years old. He was a masonry contractor and

• 1:26:22Cameron Hanes?

  Easy job.

• 1:26:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's a super easy job. Let me tell you, after working for him for seven or eight years, I never learned how to make anything. I learned how to move things.

• 1:26:30Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:31Speaker 01

  And I was, I was 150 pounds when I graduated high school. So imagine me when I was 10 or 11 years old.

• 1:26:36Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:37Speaker 01

  And we would go to these construction sites and they would drop off these pallets of bricks, like 500 bricks is on average. And they have tongs that can carry six at a time. Well, at that time I could only carry one tong because I was so tiny.

• 1:26:49Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:49Speaker 01

  And my dad would be saying, hey, yeah, we're building a retaining wall or found or whatever it is. And all of these bricks that by the way, are a quarter of a mile from where they need to be, that's your job. And you can look at that in one of two ways. An insurmountable task, or you can get lost in the journey of every single one of those. And my dad, I think reinforced that for me. And that to me is actually the secret of how you make it through BUDs or things that are challenging. You don't look at the totality of what you're trying to do. You just live in the moment and you make these really small micro steps. And before you know it, as long as you keep putting one foot in front of the other, you're there.

• 1:27:24Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:25Speaker 01

  So I think that's where it comes from.

• 1:27:27Cameron Hanes?

  I think you, I remember you telling me at some point in our travels, but you mentioned that to get through BUDs because you were a BUDs instructor, I remember. And you would say, people look at it because what is it's like 130 hours or something?

• 1:27:43Speaker 01

  So Hell Week is Sunday evening through Friday afternoon. And that's about where 75 to 80% of all attrition occurs.

• 1:27:51Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 1:27:51Speaker 01

  They look at it as a whole week. The reality is you just need to look at it one meal at a time.

• 1:27:55Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, that, that's what I remember that example. You're saying like it's a breakfast, you make it to lunch because they give you three meals a day, right?

• 1:28:02Speaker 01

  Four, midnight.

• 1:28:03Cameron Hanes?

  And it's just like, you break it down. You look at the whole Hell Week.

• 1:28:07Speaker 01

  You're done.

• 1:28:08Cameron Hanes?

  Over. But yeah.

• 1:28:09Speaker 01

  Especially as an instructor, because I could tell when people were looking at that and then a little instructor stump would come like, how long can you be this cold?

• 1:28:16Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:16Speaker 01

  And I'd set my watch to the wrong day and time because you don't get a watch as a student. And it'd be Monday, early morning. I'm like, God, it's still just, sun just went down on Sunday. Or it'd be Tuesday morning and it's like, hey, this is just Monday and they're literally hypothermic like. I'm going to be here with you for the next five days and I you're only going to get colder. How long can you be this cold and it's just they explode?

• 1:28:39Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:28:40Speaker 01

  Except for the people who realize, what are you saying? I just need to get through this interaction because I now have seen the game.

• 1:28:47Cameron Hanes?

  I know I'm getting lunch. I'm getting lunch today.

• 1:28:49Speaker 01

  Or if I can just survive him talking to me right now, he'll go talk to somebody else.

• 1:28:52Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:53Speaker 01

  And either they can explode or not, but that's my micro step. Get through this interaction and then we'll figure out lunch after this or dinner or whatever it may be.

• 1:29:01Cameron Hanes?

  I think that's, I mean, that's the only way to get through, like if you do a long race or like even a marathon, like mile to mile. You can't think about, oh, I gotta do 26 miles.

• 1:29:09Speaker 01

  You should count it. You should have people at every tenth of a mile just holding you up aside.

• 1:29:13Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:13Speaker 01

  That would destroy you, I bet.

• 1:29:15Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, it would. Yeah, it would. So, yeah, I like that breaking it down.

• 1:29:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:29:20Cameron Hanes?

  Good advice there, but yeah, so who like, who to you now as a grown man have done so much? Like, are you still inspired by others? Are you still?

• 1:29:30Speaker 01

  Oh, constantly.

• 1:29:31Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, like who inspires you?

• 1:29:33Speaker 01

  You do. I wrote that in the, uh, the ARC copy that I sent you. I mean, I can't do the things that you do. One, I don't like running. I like fighting.

• 1:29:43Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:43Speaker 01

  And the best thing about getting shot is that my gait is super messed up. So I, I wouldn't, I was never into long distance running anyway. But I look at you do endurance shit that most people can't do. And if you're not inspired by that, I don't know what to tell you. Because to me, that just reminds me, especially if I see you like running for like 78 days straight, which I feel like is what you do every week. What if I'm having a shitty day, a little, little pity party for, yeah, I'm like on six and a half hours sleep on my eight sleep. And my, my sleep metric score was 80 and I got one shot of espresso this morning. I can't take it. It's like you little bitch.

• 1:30:22Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:23Speaker 01

  If you, I mean, I, I draft off of other people for motivation all the time and I'm inspired by that. And I, and I can apply that to, so when I watch you doing the endurance stuff, it's a hundred percent inspirational. And I, I mean, this is the beauty of the internet, right? The best, worst thing ever.

• 1:30:41Speaker 01

  If I didn't have the internet, I wouldn't be able to see you do that stuff.

• 1:30:43Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 1:30:43Speaker 01

  So it can help me bridge times in my own motivation because I can cast a net out and look for somebody doing something amazing and remind myself that person is probably just a normal person who's put in an immense amount of effort. Maybe I should stop being a little bitch.

• 1:30:56Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:57Speaker 01

  And just get back on my horse. So I would say people at the apex of whatever it is that they're doing can inspire me.

• 1:31:03Cameron Hanes?

  That's a good mindset to have. Yeah. And thank you for the kind words.

• 1:31:07Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 1:31:09Cameron Hanes?

  Means a lot.

• 1:31:09Speaker 01

  I mean, clearly you have mental issues for running as much as you do, but I mean, I can still be inspired by the fact that you do.

• 1:31:14Cameron Hanes?

  I have mental issues for a lot more than that, but that's part of it. But, uh, no, Andy, I was like, I'm so pumped you came. Um, I'm so pumped to spend time with you, watch you shoot your new bow. That fricking AX3 is so money.

• 1:31:27Speaker 01

  Like I said, after a year and a half off, I didn't do too bad. I at least hit the paper.

• 1:31:31Cameron Hanes?

  Dude, your form is tits. But guys, go get, order Andy's book. You can order it right now. All these pre-orders, pre-sales count for the first week sales. That gets us on New York Times.

• 1:31:44Speaker 01

  That's a weird one, too.

• 1:31:45Cameron Hanes?

  I know.

• 1:31:45Speaker 01

  Why do they do that for the first week, but then every week after that, it's just the seven days? That's really weird.

• 1:31:52Cameron Hanes?

  I don't know. If you don't make it the first week.

• 1:31:54Speaker 01

  Oh, you're done.

• 1:31:55Cameron Hanes?

  It's not gonna happen. Yeah. Thank you, brother.

• 1:31:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, of course. Thank you, man.

• 1:31:59Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. Check out the book, guys. Keep hammering.