Sophia Bush ON: Learning To Accept Yourself In The Present While Becoming A Masterpiece

Jay Shetty and Sophia Bush are equally passionate about social justice and current issues. Today they sat down to talk about the path to Hollywood, the importance of grassroots involvement, and the current issues that challenge the world today. Jay Shetty and Sophia Bush cover topics that range from climate change to self confidence. You’ll also hear Bush’s advice for those who want to make a difference in their communities, but don’t know where to start. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jay Shetty?

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• 0:44Jay Shetty?

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• 1:29Jay Shetty?

  AG1 Next Gen is one of those easy habits to keep. It's the clinically-backed, comprehensive daily health drink that supports your gut health, energy production, and foundational nutrition all in one scoop. AG1's ingredients are sourced from quality partners for absorption, potency, and nutrient density to deliver the foundational nutrition your body needs. And alongside a proper diet, AG1 Next Gen meets 94% of nutrient requirements and it's clinically shown to enrich the gut microbiome. For a limited time, save 20% on your first subscription order of AG1 Next Gen or AG1 Pro at drinkag1.com/onpurpose. That's drinkag1.com/onpurpose.

• 2:16Jay Shetty?

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• 3:00Jay Shetty?

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• 3:09Speaker 01

  The more causes I highlight, the more likely I am that a light bulb is going to go off for somebody. Because my entire audience isn't going to care about cancer, and my entire audience isn't going to care about the environment, and my entire audience isn't going to care about girls' access to primary school education in Guatemala, but they're all going to care about something.

• 3:32Jay Shetty?

  Hey, everyone. Welcome back to On Purpose, the number one health podcast in the world, thanks to each and every single one of you who come back every week to listen, to learn, and grow. I'm genuinely so proud of the incredible community that we've built over the last 12 months, and it means so much to me that you're here with me this week. Now, remember, make sure you're taking screenshots, saving the best things that you hear, and posting them on Instagram, so that me and our guest today, who you already know who it is, but I'm about to share with you more about her, you can share with us the insights that are really standing out to you. I love seeing what you find fascinating from these conversations.

• 4:13Jay Shetty?

  Now, today's guest is an American actress, activist, and entrepreneur. Her name, as you know, is Sophia Bush. Now, she's a global education access advocate. Sophia has starred in various Independent projects, shows and movies such as the hit comedy John Tucker Must Die. I remember seeing that. It's incredible. It's true. I remember seeing that. And the CW's hit drama One Tree Hill. I love that. And starred as Detective Erin Lindsay for four seasons on Chicago PD. Sophia was named one of the most charitable celebrities by CNN, which I absolutely love, and devotes her free time and her work time to bettering girls' education and the environment.

• 4:56Jay Shetty?

  She inspires millions by using her personal platform and social media influence to raise awareness and funds for great causes. Sophia launched her podcast, which I thankfully got to be a guest on, Work in Progress, which is amazing if you've not yet heard it. And these discussions stem from her aha moment of realizing you are allowed to be both a masterpiece and a work in progress simultaneously. Welcome to the show, Sophia Bush. Sophia, thank you for being here.

• 5:26Speaker 01

  Hi, buddy.

• 5:26Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, it's so good to see you.

• 5:27Speaker 01

  I know. We did it.

• 5:29Jay Shetty?

  I know. We did it finally. We've been wanting to do this for such a long time.

• 5:32Speaker 01

  Truly. And the last couple of months for both of us have been so crazy. And when I'm home, you're gone. And when you're home, I'm gone.

• 5:37Jay Shetty?

  I know.

• 5:38Speaker 01

  And we did it.

• 5:39Jay Shetty?

  But we're here.

• 5:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:40Jay Shetty?

  And you've been busy trying to save the world and make such a difference, which I love seeing on social media. I'm always following you on Instagram. And we're always messaging and DMing each other about what's happening. And I love seeing the work that you're doing. And I can't wait for you to share with my audience today because I think it's so purposeful. It's so powerful. And I really respect you and admire you for what you're doing. So thank you so much for doing it and taking the time to do it with, like I said, your free time and all of your time. It doesn't seem to be like a separation for you. It feels like it's all one.

• 6:13Speaker 01

  I don't know how else to do it. And, you know, I certainly know that I have more to learn. And I'm always trying to see other perspectives and go deeper with the work. But yeah, I don't know how to turn it off.

• 6:27Jay Shetty?

  Well, we just talked about that. I'm the same. Like, I feel like I feel like I lived such a blessed life that I get to do what I love every single day. I have an incredible community that allows me to express myself and share my ideas and is ready to hear them and give me their ideas and learn from them. I get to sit with amazing people like you and pick their brains and it's, I see it as our, you know, for me, I see it as a responsibility to want to use the platform that I have to do good through and, you know, meet people like you. But I'm gonna go, I'm gonna start in a different place today.

• 6:59Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 6:59Jay Shetty?

  And I'm gonna start, do you, do you, this around, I don't think you've, you ever get asked this. So I'm hoping, I'm hoping you don't ever get asked this.

• 7:05Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 7:05Jay Shetty?

  Do you still play volleyball?

• 7:07Speaker 01

  Not really. I, I mean, the irony that I was annoyed when I had to do my first play because it meant I couldn't play volleyball that season is not lost on me because that was also sort of the year where everyone grew and I didn't as much.

• 7:23Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 7:23Speaker 01

  So I was never gonna be a volleyball player. All those girls were like six feet tall.

• 7:28Jay Shetty?

  Really?

• 7:29Speaker 01

  Oh, my God, like professional volleyball players, college players, you know, they're tall. I probably would have been, if I had stayed playing soccer like I did in elementary school, that probably would have been a better idea.

• 7:40Jay Shetty?

  I didn't know you played soccer.

• 7:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, but I'm like the world's biggest apeshit soccer fan. I hope that's okay to say.

• 7:46Jay Shetty?

  Carry on.

• 7:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, like the girls on the women's national team are like, you're our OG fan. Like before anybody cared, you cared.

• 7:52Jay Shetty?

  Wait a minute.

• 7:53Speaker 01

  I felt very seen and known in that moment.

• 7:55Jay Shetty?

  Do you follow the MLS? Or not really? Or you're not, you don't really follow?

• 7:59Speaker 01

  I mean, I, either teams that I love and I'm a huge LAFC fan and I think, you know, I spent years watching Lionel Messi and, you know, Abby Wambach is my personal hero.

• 8:10Jay Shetty?

  How do I not know this about you?

• 8:11Speaker 01

  Oh, my God. No, and by the way, we're football fans. Let's clarify.

• 8:14Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 8:14Speaker 01

  Okay. It's football. It's real football.

• 8:17Jay Shetty?

  Real football. You play with your feet.

• 8:18Speaker 01

  Thank you. There it is. This is important.

• 8:23Speaker 01

  So, yeah, no, I'm like a, I'm a big fan.

• 8:26Jay Shetty?

  I had no idea.

• 8:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:28Jay Shetty?

  Oh, wow. Okay. I love that. Yeah. No, I'm obviously, growing up in London, I'm a huge, huge football fan.

• 8:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, I will never forget many years ago. I was speaking at Glamour's Woman of the Year Awards in New York and it was the year that the women's national team had won the World Cup and we were, everyone was just freaking out. And halfway through this sort of dinner portion of the event, Abby Wambach walks up to me and is like, "All the girls on the team are too scared to say hey to you, but they're all Brooke Davis fans. We think you rock." And I was like, "Hi Abby." And I was like, "I just got, I was gonna speak English to you in just like one minute." And we all hung out for the rest of the night and a bunch of us have been friends ever since and that's been like the coolest thing ever. But yeah, no, I was, I was like, fully starstruck.

• 9:17Speaker 01

  And she was like, "They're starstruck." I was like, "No, I'm starstruck. This is a whole mood for me right now."

• 9:23Jay Shetty?

  That's amazing. I love that. I love that. What else did you love doing, growing up, outdoors especially? Or like, what were like your fascinations?

• 9:32Speaker 01

  I was a really outdoorsy kid. You know, I grew up here in LA and it's funny because people are always so surprised by that.

• 9:38Jay Shetty?

  You're one of the few people I knew that actually grew up here.

• 9:41Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I grew up in LA, not like Beverly Hills, not the industry really. My dad is a photographer, but I didn't know anything about what I do now. And I grew up playing in the dirt and hiking in the mountains and visiting the ocean and spending time in the desert and going to Mexico and riding horses at a barn in Burbank. And it, it was really cool. And I think that's where all of my passion for the environment came from because my whole enjoyable childhood life happened outside.

• 10:21Jay Shetty?

  I, I think about that a lot because having moved to LA, I spend a lot more time outdoors here than I did in London. And even my parents always tried to get us to go outdoors more and we used to drive to Europe all the time. So I was always outdoors, but when you grow up here, I can only imagine how incredible it is. Like, the beach is your playground and...

• 10:41Speaker 01

  I went to summer camp every summer as a kid up in the Sierras, you know, camping in giant canvas, kind of like oversized army looking tents, you know? And learning about nature and sleeping under the stars. And yeah, it's, it's really, California's magic.

• 10:59Jay Shetty?

  I love that, how you said that. That's what sparked your love for the environment.

• 11:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:04Jay Shetty?

  Like, that's really beautiful to think of it that way, that the more time we spend in nature, the more time we spend outdoors, the more we explore, the more we value what the world truly has to offer and and what's being affected. And we'll definitely get on to that today. I hundred percent want to dive into it with you, but I wanted to start with talking about your podcast because you launched it last year.

• 11:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, September.

• 11:26Jay Shetty?

  So, yeah, so September, you launched the podcast. I remember coming on very soon after you launched it. I absolutely loved my experience with you. You asked me questions I'd never been asked before.

• 11:35Speaker 01

  I loved that.

• 11:36Jay Shetty?

  And, yeah, and you did, and I still remember. And I'm always trying to think about, like, I, I don't know how to do it. I'm like, I should send everyone this interview so they know to ask me questions I don't get asked. But, you know, I'm, I'm gonna try do the same for you today. I don't know if I'm as good as you, so I'm gonna try.

• 11:52Speaker 01

  Oh, come on.

• 11:52Jay Shetty?

  But, but genuinely, like, work in progress. I love the title. I love the experience. You made me feel super comfortable. We'd never met before that day. And you just allowed me to really express myself and share my story. And I just felt so comforted. And I think you do that for all your guests. But the thing I love about the podcast is how you talk about this simultaneously being a work in progress and a masterpiece. And I know you've been asked this before, but I have to ask it for my audience. Tell us what that means to you and, and how you wrap your head around that for your own self and for how you share it through the podcast.

• 12:27Speaker 01

  So it's funny, I've been asked what made me say that, what made me write that. And I realize, and this happens to me a lot. I think, you know, they say hindsight's 2020 for a reason. Clichés are clichés because they're true. I think that sometimes when I say or write something that really cuts to the inner part of the heart of the people who read it or hear it, it's because it's the thing that I needed to hear. And the world is hard for everyone. And we've all been put on this hamster wheel where we're terrified that maybe we're the one person who doesn't have it figured out. Or why haven't we, you know, we got this sorted, but why don't we have that sorted? And all these other people look like they have it figured out. And we're all asking each other, how do you manage your time?

• 13:12Speaker 01

  And how does this person manage their time? Because we all think we're failing at managing our time. And the overwhelming feeling of, especially as a woman.

• 13:26Speaker 01

  We all, we all suffer that and then women have this sort of added compounding stress of no matter what we do, we're told we're wrong. If you prioritize your career, why don't you have kids? And if you have kids, well, oh, you didn't want to have a career. And if you're single, like, what's wrong with you? But if you're in a relationship, did you settle? You know, it's, it's exhausting. And I, I was having a conversation with some friends and we were talking about something I'd said a few years earlier that I realized was also something I needed to hear, which was stop worrying so much about being someone else's version of enough. Someone else's definition of enough is actually what I said. And I said, you know, now I think what I'm trying to do is figure out how to own,

• 14:10Speaker 01

  how can I own what I've done? How can I own what I made, what I've made? How can I be proud of the person that I am and also set goals? I don't want to set goals so much that all I'm ever doing is looking at the horizon and missing what's around me, but I don't want to get complacent with what's around me and stop growing. And there has to be a world in which I can be both, you know? I look around at everyone in my life and I give them patience to grow and I also think they're incredible. I think, I think the people I surround myself with are masterpieces. And, you know, how do we get to the place where we're allowed to be both a masterpiece and a work in progress simultaneously? How do you know that you're enough and also know that you can always be better? How can both of those things be true? And yeah, it was like a big aha moment.

• 14:55Speaker 01

  And then it, that phrase, once I wrote it down and shared it, it sort of took the internet by storm and then it started getting stolen by people. And then I started seeing it everywhere. And then I, somebody said, well, have you looked it up on Pinterest? And there's tens of thousands of, you know, pieces of art that have been made out of it. And I was like, oh shit, that thing that I needed to hear, apparently a lot of other people needed to hear it too.

• 15:22Jay Shetty?

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• 16:07Jay Shetty?

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• 16:52Jay Shetty?

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• 17:34Jay Shetty?

  But I love that, and I'm so glad you shared that because I love that paradox too, because I feel like everyone's always asking us to choose. And it's almost like, well, first of all, who's asking you? And second of all, why do you have to choose? Like, why do you have to accept that you are just a masterpiece? Which would be hard for most of us to accept. And how do you accept that you are just a work in progress? And like you're saying, not celebrate. So tell me about which areas of your life right now do you feel are a masterpiece? And which areas are a work in progress? If you don't mind that.

• 18:09Jay Shetty?

  When I say masterpiece, you know, you're a very humble, modest person. So I know you, but an area that you feel very happy and accomplished and proud and like just confident about, and then an area that's a work in progress?

• 18:21Speaker 01

  It's really interesting you ask me that because just a few weeks ago, one of my best friends, my friend Sam, we were out, our friend Christine was visiting from Nashville. And the three of us went on this hike. We had this like beautiful afternoon and we had hiked up to the top of this mountain range out near the beach. And we were in a grove of ancient oak trees. They're literally called the trees of life.

• 18:44Jay Shetty?

  Where is this?

• 18:44Speaker 01

  This is in the Topanga Canyon State Park. Just magic. And we were sitting and we were talking about some things that we had all been learning over the prior year. You know, this is maybe a month after New Year's and New Year's makes us all think, right? And Sam said, I want to share some things I've learned about myself. She was like, but Sophia, I want you to go first. I want you to tell us something you love about yourself.

• 19:13Speaker 01

  And let me tell you what, I was like, this feels very uncomfortable to me, guys. And I was looking at them and Sam was like, you can do this. And Christine said, tell us something. And I kid you not, I think two minutes went by. And they were like, we're not moving on with the conversation until you do this. And I was like.

• 19:31Jay Shetty?

  Good friends.

• 19:32Speaker 01

  Oh, just like broke out in a sweat. And I, and I really, at one point, I almost started to cry because I thought, why is this so hard for me? What has taught me to be small? When I am the person who goes out there and sees everyone as so big and advocates for their bigness and their right to take up space? What is this? And finally.

• 19:56Speaker 01

  I started to laugh and I was like, okay, you guys, I'm really smart. Sam was like, you are the smartest person I know. Sophie, I've never met someone. She was like, when I saw you talk in Vegas, like, I almost fainted. I couldn't. And it turned into this whole thing and I was crying and laughing. And I was like, yeah, I'm really, really smart. And I do the research and I care and I, and I look into things in a very real way and I dig into things and I don't share about things or advocate for things unless I really know that I know what I'm talking about. I travel to places to be on the ground, to be a witness and an advocate. And, and that conversation led me into realizing that I always show up and I really show up for my friends.

• 20:38Speaker 01

  And I show up in ways that have also kind of gotten me burned a little bit. You know, I haven't had friends always show up for me in the way that I show up for them. But I'd always rather be the person who shows up. And it was this big kind of opening thing. So it's a really roundabout way of saying it's hard for me to identify the arenas or maybe the verticals in my spreadsheet that I would say are masterpieces. But the things that I take pride in, that I, that I know I'm doing well at are my commitment to people, my commitment to research. You know, I am very political and it comes at a risk. And I do it because I know I'm doing it right.

• 21:22Speaker 01

  And I'm also really willing to learn. So if I get something wrong, if I've missed something, if I've had blinders on, I want to know. And coming from a place of conviction that my activism is always rooted in what is best for the most people? And is the root of what I believe always love for another? And if those are the questions I can answer clearly, then I go full steam ahead. I'm really proud of those things. Like that, that's where I'm doing well.

• 21:55Jay Shetty?

  That's beautiful. I love that. And thank you for sharing that.

• 21:58Speaker 01

  Thanks.

• 21:59Jay Shetty?

  I definitely feel you've you've always showed up for me. So I appreciate that. When you came to my event, it meant a lot to me.

• 22:05Speaker 01

  It was so special.

• 22:05Jay Shetty?

  And you took the time to come. And I felt that as well, like we we'd been missing each other and not able to talk. And I know we'd had a few conversations, but I invited you and you showed up and you stayed till the end.

• 22:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:16Jay Shetty?

  And it was just, I felt very loved and touched and moved by that. And I want you to know that. So please always know that I will always show up too.

• 22:22Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 22:22Jay Shetty?

  And and thank you for sharing that also, because I I think it's so true that often we're the ones going and petitioning on behalf of others. And we're pushing ourselves to help people realize that they're enough and to help people realize that they have meaning and they have a voice and they have a purpose. And in that, we struggle with ourselves to just be like, oh, I'm I'm kind of good at this or okay at this.

• 22:47Speaker 01

  Am I okay at this?

• 22:48Jay Shetty?

  Exactly. Yeah. And and I think that that's a very real struggle. And you've got good friends who forced you to

• 22:55Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 22:55Jay Shetty?

  to say it. So I love them already.

• 22:57Speaker 01

  It was so brutal. I was like, you guys are horrible. I was literally holding myself like Molly Shannon, just like

• 23:02Jay Shetty?

  And they're taking you away into this distant land.

• 23:04Speaker 01

  Oh, God. And you know, we'd we'd we'd like exercise, we were sweating, there were endorphins moving. I was like, I'm very uncomfortable. Um, but yeah, I think it's I just think it's so important that we start figuring out how to do a bit more of that for ourselves and that it's okay.

• 23:24Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, it is okay. Okay, tell us about the work in progress area, which

• 23:28Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 23:29Jay Shetty?

  Probably be a bit easy.

• 23:30Speaker 01

  I'm shit at time management. It's just not my spiritual gift. I hate email. I think email is literally the ugliest, worst designed. Who's the product designer of an inbox? Because that person should be like sat down and have their hands taped to a computer till they fix it, like reprogram the whole thing. Threads are garbage. You can never find anything you need. Everyone's email signatures are eight miles long. I don't care. Like, the number of emails that get sent for no reason. I just don't do it. I don't do it anymore. Looking at an inbox makes me feel so stressed out that I'm like, if you know me, if we have a real relationship, you know not to email me. Text me whatever it is. Send me something on WhatsApp.

• 24:13Speaker 01

  You can DM me on Instagram and get a hold of me faster than you can in an email. It's just I'm not good at that. I'm trying to get better because I do also know that there are portions of my career that operate solely via email. So I begrudgingly look at it, but it makes me feel very stressed. And I get that that's an irrational complaint, but here we are. I'm accepting all of myself. Yeah, I know. I think that discernment with people has not always been my spiritual gift either. I really love people. Sometimes people will say like, which I always find ironic, I posted something, it was recently the anniversary of the shooting at Stoneman Douglas

• 24:56Speaker 01

  High School, Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School. And I just think that those Parkland kids are so incredible. And I was talking about this debate we have in this country about guns, and talking about it from the perspective which most people know me, which is I'm pretty progressive. And then people like to say like, well, you're one of those Hollywood liberals. I'm like, I don't know what you're talking about. Okay. My, my, my, my growing up was in Los Angeles. My whole Hollywood career has been in North Carolina, Chicago, New Mexico, like, what are you talking about? But, you know, I come at this from the perspective of being a person who believes we need reform and who analyzes the data

• 25:36Speaker 01

  to understand why, and, and who also was given my first rifle at 12, and owned guns, and shoot them as a hobbyist. So I sit at an interesting crossroads. And I, I posted something about this, having a really frank and vulnerable conversation about what we're doing to our kids. And I'm not a parent yet. But there's no such thing as other people's children, in my eyes. You know, we're all in this together. And somebody, there was some really thoughtful conversation, and some people's tempers flared, but I think we had a really good sort of talk and debate and back and forth. And someone was like, every time I come to your page, you're just so angry. And I looked back at my last nine

• 26:20Speaker 01

  posts, and they were all just pure rejoicing of like, community and life. And I was like, okay. But figuring out how to, how to do some of that, how to, how to advocate, and, and how to boundary set for myself, I've realized it's a little easier for me to do with activism. It's easier for me to do in the way that I'm willing to give to the world. But the way that I will fight for the world is because of the way that I love the world. And I really love people and I have realized

• 26:59Speaker 01

  that's what makes me so feisty on their behalf. But when that applies in my more interpersonal relationships, it has made me a little bit blind because I very often, whether it's in platonic love or romantic love, I have fallen in love with people's potential. I have fallen in love with the best thing that I see in someone as my partner or as my friend, rather than really taking stock of the full picture. And I've made excuses for bad behavior, which mean that I have made excuses for being treated badly. And that has been a really important thing to start to look at. When you start to, to say,

• 27:43Speaker 01

  "This doesn't feel good to me," and you look at why, it's always easy to look at the way someone has mistreated you, betrayed your confidence, you know, not shown up, whatever the thing may be. It's harder to then take the perspective and step in front of the mirror with it and figure out what you put up with, what you ignored, what you allowed.

• 28:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's, that's a real, you know, that's a real thing. And so that's, that's a work in progress for me. I, I am having to learn discernment. I'm having to take action as face value rather than words. And I love words, my God. I love to read. I love to talk. I love to converse. Words can really be like a powerful drug for me. And actions are the thing I have to focus on. I have to train myself. I'm training myself to focus on actions. Because...

• 28:47Speaker 01

  They're easier for some reason, or have been easier for some reason, for me to excuse when when the words are there.

• 28:53Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. I love that. It just shows how such a beautiful quality that you have, which is noticing the potential in others. That's such a beautiful quality.

• 29:03Speaker 01

  It's the best.

• 29:04Jay Shetty?

  Like to have that and recognizing when someone's at their lowest, that they have this spark of brilliance, so that they have this little genius inside of them, and you want to fan it, and you want to grow it, and you want it to develop, but recognizing that if misused or misunderstood, or misapplied is the right word, actually, if it's misapplied, it can actually be your greatest pain point. Because if it's misused and you do it in a way where you want someone to become, or you know they can become, but they choose not to.

• 29:39Speaker 01

  And love is a really powerful drug, you know, it feels good. It releases endorphins and oxytocin and all those things in our bodies. And if the way that you love someone becomes a supply for them, it's not a reciprocal exchange. And it is just as much my fault when I have loved someone who has used my love as fuel, rather than created a charge between the two of us that runs like a battery. And that's true, again, in romantic relationships and friendships. And, you know, I've, in the last year, I've done a big clean out. Big house cleaning. And it's been in every arena by the way. I've actually renovated

• 30:24Speaker 01

  my house. I have cleaned out my stuff in ways and done like charity auctions and giveaways and all kinds of things. And I have really, I've like whittled down my favorites list in my phone.

• 30:37Jay Shetty?

  Minimalist.

• 30:38Speaker 01

  I have streamlined my group of friends. And I've gotten to a point where even people who've

• 30:46Speaker 01

  Betrayed me? I'm not angry about it, I'm just really clear.

• 30:50Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 30:51Speaker 01

  I don't sugarcoat the experience. Because that's a denial of my experience, but I don't hold on to anger about it anymore either. I'm just like, oh, I see.

• 31:01Jay Shetty?

  Hmm.

• 31:01Speaker 01

  And that's okay, but I operate differently. And if I, if I give of myself this way and you don't give of yourself in return, that's fine. You do you. But I only have so much of this to give.

• 31:13Jay Shetty?

  Totally.

• 31:13Speaker 01

  So.

• 31:15Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 31:15Speaker 01

  Thank you, next.

• 31:17Jay Shetty?

  This is why you're so awesome, because we've gone from talking about email inboxes to, uh,

• 31:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:23Jay Shetty?

  to, you know, to, to really looking at discernment, which I think is such a, it's, you've, you've brought about such a subtle challenge that I think so many of us face.

• 31:33Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 31:33Jay Shetty?

  Especially in romantic partnerships and in friendships and even in work.

• 31:37Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 31:38Jay Shetty?

  You know, even hiring people and even, uh, yeah, hiring people, working with people, being friends with people, long-term relationships. All, all of that, it's just discernment is so tough.

• 31:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:49Jay Shetty?

  And, and I'm so glad that you've raised it because I think for everyone who's listening or watching right now, I'm sure you can relate to something Sophia's saying. And I want you to see what she's saying is so beautiful because you're talking about how it's not about just having an anger or resentment toward them. Actually, it's the clarity is really the goal of all of that. That if you've experienced that, aim for clarity so you know where you stand with someone.

• 32:13Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 32:13Jay Shetty?

  And you know where they stand with you.

• 32:16Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 32:16Jay Shetty?

  Rather than still making up some fiction version in your head of what you wanted to be or it could be.

• 32:22Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 32:23Jay Shetty?

  And so, yeah, thank you for sharing that. And, and, and with your regards to the email inbox, sorry, I have to go back there because I thought what you just said was so brilliant.

• 32:30Speaker 01

  But isn't it the worst?

• 32:31Jay Shetty?

  So, I'll tell you exactly what I do with email. I want to hear your tips too.

• 32:35Speaker 01

  Oh, thank God, teach me because I hate it.

• 32:37Jay Shetty?

  And no, no, no, no, no, these aren't my tips. This is just the, the, the rules I set for myself.

• 32:41Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 32:42Jay Shetty?

  Everyone in my life knows that you will get no longer than three-word to three-sentence emails from me ever. I will skim read and scan read any email that is above three lines as well. So if you want to talk to me or we need to get through something, then find me on WhatsApp or a phone call. And at first, when I started to do this, people thought I was quite abrupt or. Slightly rude on email and it was never rude. It was just short and clinical. And the reason was because I was like, I don't think we can actually come to a real conclusion. Having an email exchange where every email is worth like 10 paragraphs. And I'm like, I've expected to read this, process it and then respond. When actually we could do it on a phone call. I could explain myself much better and communicate better and we'd save time.

• 33:27Jay Shetty?

  And so for me, I feel that pain with email, but I've just come up with these rules. So everyone's aware and, and I always make sure that email is my last task of the day, not my first. Because, because I believe that email means you're now living according to everyone else's timelines. And you're now living according to everyone else's priorities. And so email is my last and least important task of the day. So everything else is much more higher priority than email.

• 33:52Speaker 01

  Love that.

• 33:53Jay Shetty?

  And it's changed my life because I get done what I want to get done in that day.

• 33:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:58Jay Shetty?

  And anything that's a priority for me to send an email, then I will send that email or I will make that phone call or I'll message that person on WhatsApp. But it will always be my last and least important task of the day.

• 34:09Speaker 01

  Okay. So here's my question.

• 34:11Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 34:11Speaker 01

  Do you set a timeframe at the end of the day during which you answer email?

• 34:16Jay Shetty?

  I do. Yes. So I will set a timeframe and I often try and make it a timeframe where I wouldn't be productive in any other area. So I find that nine AM to two PM, I'm at my most productive from a personal creativity standpoint. So I like to be alone during that time. And then after that time, like today, I'm doing a podcast because I feel I'm better conversationally at this time.

• 34:37Speaker 01

  Right.

• 34:37Jay Shetty?

  Or I'd be better sitting at my phone doing my email. But I would never use my priority time. And I talk about this study a lot. I read a study that said you can't be creative and logical at the same time. And so when you're doing email, it's just demanding so much logic and rationale. But then if you're trying to be creative or record a podcast or have a real human conversation, you can't do it. And so dividing your days into creative and logical or dividing your weeks into creative and logical can actually help you become more effective. So that's really helped me with time management because then I feel like I can actually dive into the ocean of creativity. Because I'm not then having to be pulled out into doing something logical, if that makes sense.

• 35:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:21Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, so anyway, that's anyway, back, back to, I'm just glad you raised the email thing. I will, I back it. We should have a new designer. It should be the interface, everything.

• 35:30Speaker 01

  Honestly, I'm gonna like, I'm gonna start a contest or something. I don't know what anybody's gonna win, but we're gonna fix this.

• 35:38Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, absolutely. You, you've said a lot of powerful things. We talked about one of them. There's another one that you said that I want to read from here. You say that the world has taught women to look at each other as competition. And you believe this is a distraction strategy, which, which I think is spot on. Uh, I, I feel that way about competition in general, but I think specifically what you're saying that it's heightened for women. Tell us about when you first had that moment where you realized that, and then how that's changed how you are.

• 36:07Speaker 01

  I don't know when the realization, I mean, the aha moment, it was kind of like getting hit by a bus, where I was like, oh, my God, it's a distraction tactic.

• 36:17Speaker 01

  Wow, cuz you look at productivity, you look at the way,

• 36:24Speaker 01

  there's been so many studies done about how company culture gets better when women are at the helm and, and equally represented at the company. Because when there's just one of us anywhere, then it's terrible. You just put a target on somebody's back, whether it's a woman in the boardroom, or you're trying to get diversity points at your company. So you like, put a person of color at every kind of level in the executive. I'm like, cool, you just made that person more of a, what are you doing?

• 36:47Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 36:48Speaker 01

  You know, so being the one, isn't it? But when you, when we find these arenas in which there are parity, we see how the return from companies goes up. You know, when companies have both racial and gender diversity in, in good and equal numbers, they make more money. So this isn't just a moral conversation we're having, it's also a fiscal one.

• 37:11Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 37:11Speaker 01

  And I think that sometimes the fear of all of this comes in because people, people think about the pie chart, right? And they think like, this is all the resources that there are. And so if the women start making as much money as the men, we're gonna make less money. And what they're not accounting for is that, uh, there was this, as of the sort of economic statistics of last year, if we created true gender parity in salary in America, our

• 37:38Speaker 01

  Annual GDP would increase by 2.2 trillion dollars. So the pie would get this much bigger, like literally everyone would be making more money. So that I think is really important to remember. That's why, again, an adage, a rising tide lifts all ships. It's really true. And yet, we don't think about it that way. Our little lizard brains love this fear of scarcity because we evolved to be afraid. And being afraid kept us alive, you know, like something's watching me. It's a lion, I have to run, whatever. We don't need them in the same way anymore. In modern society, we don't need the fear and the anxiety and the way that we evolved to have them.

• 38:20Speaker 01

  Yet we have them and we, we put them in these really disparate places everywhere. I think about it like a, like a pressure valve. When the pressure doesn't get released, it starts coming out sideways. And with women, in our oppression, there has been, for some, luxury to proximal power. And proximal power is a hell of a drug. So when you are the one woman who gets promoted and you survived harassment and abuse and degradation on the way up, and you see another woman coming in and a bunch of the guys at work are like, oh, look who's coming to take your seat. They never say to us, oh, man, she's cool. Maybe she's coming to take my seat. They say, she's coming to take your seat.

• 39:05Speaker 01

  There has been this culturing that we are each other's competition. And then there's been a popularization through narratives that have often been told by men in entertainment that women are meant to fight over men.

• 39:16Jay Shetty?

  So true.

• 39:17Speaker 01

  And, and when you see it come from everywhere. When it gets dumped on you from everywhere, you know, why is it that at 10 years old, girls start to get small and quiet in school? By 10 years old now, girls are conscious and self-conscious about their bodies. And they think that they're not pretty and they think that they're not smart. And they think that like a girl is an insult. You know, this comes from everywhere and it starts at such a young age that we grow up in it. We don't even know that we're participating in it. And, you know, I still have one of my best friends from junior high and high school, and she and I were talking and she was like, oh, my God, do you remember in seventh grade when like, that boy Drew was in love with you and I was in love with Drew

• 40:01Speaker 01

  and I was so mean to you because I just couldn't tell you, you know, and suddenly my best friend just started being so mean to me and I didn't know what was going on. And now we laugh about it, you know, while we're like playing with her kids and talking about what we're doing next weekend. But we, no one told us we couldn't talk about that, but we had been cultured to be afraid of it. And how lucky we are that we got past that. But I'm, I'm using it as an example because it's so ingrained from such a young age. And then because girls aren't cultured to talk about it, guys, guys will talk about it, they'll, they'll fight about it, they'll just throw it all out there. But women are supposed to be small and supposed to be good

• 40:44Speaker 01

  and supposed to be sweet. And the pressure of the small and the good and the sweet is like a vice on our hearts and our necks and our heads. And if you don't learn, and the unlearning, because really, actually, it's an unlearning. If you don't unlearn that stuff, and the tools to unlearn aren't just readily available everywhere, I think more now, but when I was in high school, they weren't anywhere. No one was talking about this stuff. Now we have, you know, therapists on Instagram and Glennon Doyle, leading a revolution of, of women being untamed. But we didn't have that then. And so we had to go looking, we, we had to come

• 41:26Speaker 01

  home to ourselves and to this kind of intuitive understanding that we evolved because of the grandmothers. You know, human beings are here because of mothers. We are, we are here because of the village, the community of women who has raised us. And this is a long buried secret, but when any of us learns it, when we touch it, it's like, God, I always knew that. This is the thing that I was missing. But it really requires some work. And so for me, it's so important to cultivate excellent community with all of my friends, with, with the women in my life and with the incredible men that I'm so lucky to have in my life. I

• 42:10Speaker 01

  got like the best male allies in the game, one of them sitting right there. But, you know,

• 42:16Speaker 01

  This is a, this is a real

• 42:20Speaker 01

  kind of untangling of a knot. And we all just carried the knot around for a long time

• 42:26Speaker 01

  and didn't know why it made us feel so bad.

• 42:29Jay Shetty?

  As you said, the media has such a responsibility to play. And you have all these young girls and boys. And, and it is also how men treat women through the media. Like you were saying about like women competing over men in media or women being the only seat at the table. And there's only one and therefore they're competing for that role like. And, and having been in media yourself, like, how do you feel about? And are you supporting projects now and movies and documentaries and work that you feel is reshaping our views around media? I mean,

• 43:02Speaker 01

  Absolutely, and I, and I certainly hope so. And it's interesting, you know, when you look back at the things that shaped so many of us, in certain ways, the great ones stand the test of time. And in other ways, you look back and go, ooh, that's not, we shouldn't have made that joke.

• 43:19Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 43:19Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 43:22Speaker 01

  But it, I think it all offers us perspective. And certainly for me, figuring out where we have some of the power to steer the ship, you know, this podcast, my podcast, I get to have conversations that are thoughtful and intellectual and vulnerable. And, and I have with people who don't all think the same way and where we really get to talk about it rather than like quickly tweet, this is the thing. We get to talk about it. We get to arrive at things together. We get to question things together. And, and I think that's why perhaps this world is getting so much traction because people are starving for

• 44:03Speaker 01

  a gathering place where we can learn together rather than feel judged together.

• 44:08Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. Or just pass our judgments. And I think that openness is so key. And so often I feel like.

• 44:17Jay Shetty?

  I feel like a curious learner in all of these areas because

• 44:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:21Jay Shetty?

  It's it's really interesting, like having grown up in England versus the US as well. And having grown up with my mom and my sister being the closest family members to me.

• 44:32Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 44:32Jay Shetty?

  And so then my relationships with women have been very much affected by my relationships with my mom and my sister, where who I have very positive relationships with. And then moving here and and also like my parents never made my ethnicity feel like a strength or a weakness growing up. So I was oblivious to it. I and it sounds weird, but it's true. I've just never identified as anything but myself.

• 44:57Speaker 01

  Can I ask you?

• 44:57Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, of course you can.

• 44:58Speaker 01

  Because I'm curious, how as a kid in school, how did what you may or may not have experienced at school affect what your parents were doing? And and if it wasn't such a thing at home, or you didn't have to have the talk? Because, you know, in America, every black family knows that if they have a son, they have to talk to him when he's eight, maybe earlier, about what it means to move in the world as a black man. And the same goes for brown men and women. And, you know, it's it's a thing that every single friend I have,

• 45:38Speaker 01

  who is who does not look like me, they either had the talk or they're giving the talk to their kids. And so I'm curious about the difference, you think?

• 45:47Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 45:48Speaker 01

  Being in England. And then also, how did your culture? How was that taught to you in your home?

• 45:56Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, it's a good it's a good point. And, I mean, I don't want to get into me because I really want to talk about you.

• 46:01Speaker 01

  I just really like to ask you.

• 46:02Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna answer this just because you've asked, but.

• 46:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:06Jay Shetty?

  I, yeah, so first thing is, yes, I was I was bullied and experienced racism at school, especially at my primary school, because I was the own, like, one of the few Indian people at school.

• 46:16Speaker 01

  Got it.

• 46:17Jay Shetty?

  So that was definitely there from other kids. Sometimes even I felt some teachers were racist too. So I I definitely experienced it on that front too. But I feel like my parents were just. They never told me that it was harder to be like me, but they never told me it would be easier either. So they never told me either story.

• 46:36Speaker 01

  And how did they talk to you about bullying when you would come home and tell them what was happening?

• 46:40Jay Shetty?

  They just supported me, loved me, and I'm not saying any of this is right or wrong. I'm just saying this is kind of the making of who I am today. And they, they just supported me, comforted me, stood up for me when they felt it was wrong. And as embarrassing as it was, my mom coming to talk to teachers or, you know, whatever it was.

• 46:58Speaker 01

  I had none of those moms.

• 46:59Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah, my mom was that mom, but I respect her for doing it, you know? She stood up for her kids, but she never made me feel more or less than based on who I was. And equality always was very much in our, in our family and the way I was raised in terms of disrespecting everyone for who they are. And, and that kind of viewpoint, but for me, it's just, yeah, I, I empathize and do see what you're saying that for so many people, growing up is totally different. And I think in, I definitely think in England, diversity and different cultures are far more, there's far more education of that. So for example, like in my, and I don't know if this is the same because I wasn't raised here, but in my primary school, we celebrated every religious holiday of every school, every religion.

• 47:44Jay Shetty?

  We celebrated every cultural festival of every culture. We had, just as we would have a Indian festival, we would have a, you know, you know, any other festival in, at, celebrated at school. So very early on, you just got exposed to everyone's cultures and everyone's way of dressing and, and all that kind of stuff. And it was seen as a, a festival, it was seen as something celebrated, rather than like, oh yeah, there's that weird thing that they do.

• 48:12Speaker 01

  My junior high and high school were like that.

• 48:14Jay Shetty?

  Right.

• 48:14Speaker 01

  And I loved it. I just loved it, like whether it was Greek Easter, or, or it was a Hindu holiday and my friend Megga's mom was doing Hana for all the girls. We were learning about everyone's.

• 48:30Speaker 01

  Really, what I think about it as is everyone's love language. You know, my family is Italian, Catholic, agnostic, Jewish, Irish. Like, we are all over the place.

• 48:42Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 48:42Speaker 01

  And the way that we eat and the way that we celebrate and the way that we do holidays.

• 48:48Jay Shetty?

  I want to eat that food.

• 48:49Speaker 01

  Oh, my God, come over all the time. It's so fun. Like, that is, that is a love language. And I think it's really great when we can offer that to kids.

• 49:01Jay Shetty?

  What are the causes and activism that you get behind? And what is your reasoning for the ones that you choose? Because sometimes it just feels like there is so much going on.

• 49:10Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 49:11Jay Shetty?

  And, and I know that a lot of people listening and watching may feel overwhelmed at times. Like, Jay, like, how do I know what to help with? Like, there's this, there's this, there's that, there's that, there's, you know? And whereas you seem active in a lot of spaces, you're, you're not exactly just saying, oh, no, it's just this. You're, you're active and supporting. Like you said, you're showing up. How are you deciding what's important for you? And, and why have you chosen the things that you focus on?

• 49:33Speaker 01

  So, again, it's like when you were saying about the way that I love people, it's like, what a gift. And it's also an Achilles heel, right? You know, it's a double edged sword.

• 49:48Speaker 01

  My understanding of what the world needs feels the same. It's big and it's broad, and I like to go deep in so many different directions. But for me, the environment began it.

• 50:02Speaker 01

  Growing up in it, I wanted it to be safe. You know, animals, planet, ocean, forests. And then, for me, beginning to realize the way women were treated in the world, I was like, oh, hell no. That got me so into women and girls. And when you look at how to elevate women, you have to look at how to elevate girls. And you elevate girls in school. And when you elevate girls in school, you automatically elevate the boys in school. And, you know, the more I learn, the more I see how it's all connected. And the way that I think about it when people ask me about causes. You know, we both have this cough, right? Let's say we were actually sick and we went to the doctor. You'd never go to a doctor who would just look at your lungs.

• 50:45Speaker 01

  Or if you had a pain in your arm, who would just look at your bicep and be like, That part seems okay. Go see the other doctor. A doctor looks at your body. They look at your muscular, you know, your musculoskeletal system. They look at your circulatory system. They look at your respiratory system, your nervous system. The body is made up of interconnected systems, and if one fails, the body fails. The planet is just a giant body. And the more that you start looking, or the more, at least for me, to personalize it, the more I started looking at things, I would see that these veins ran into those muscles, and that those muscles were painted by these nerves. And all of these things is connected. And if we have been touched by cancer, we

• 51:28Speaker 01

  should be talking about the environment. We should be talking about environmental protections and what's happening with the water and the air. If we understand that the only reason we're sitting in this room is because we were afforded an education, we should be making sure that the education system doesn't leave anyone behind. And when you start examining the education system in the United States, for example, you find out that California has one textbook and Texas has another, made by the same company. But the textbooks in Texas aren't talking about the Civil War the way the textbooks in California are. And they're not talking about the Second Amendment in the same way either. This is problematic, and we should care. You know, everything I've ever looked at leads me to something else. And what I realize is, I like to learn as much as I can about every single issue and

• 52:13Speaker 01

  be able to understand how the systems of the world are interconnected and integrated. And then my privilege and the way that I spend it is that because I get to talk to millions of people every day, the more causes I highlight, the more likely I am that a light bulb is going to go off for somebody. Because my entire audience isn't going to care about cancer, and my entire audience isn't going to care about the environment, and my entire audience isn't going to care about girls' access to primary school education in Guatemala, but they're all going to care about something. And the more that I can offer, and the more that I can research, and the more that I can give as an opportunity, the more likely I am to turn somebody on to the thing that ignites their sacred rage,

• 52:56Speaker 01

  and that gets them out of bed in the morning, and that gets them to call their senators, that gets them to go out and vote. And so I want to be learning constantly about the newest, coolest thing, and the best way to show up for something, and where to give your money, and where to give your time, and how to green your house, and how to start thinking about your environmental impact, whether it's through furniture or fashion, or who you vote for. It all really matters. And while I think we have a responsibility to do the research, it's not that hard. You know?

• 53:28Jay Shetty?

  That's what I was gonna ask you, because when you're speaking about all these issues, all I'm hearing is research, study, learning, like, these are not just, they're not sentimental for you.

• 53:38Speaker 01

  No.

• 53:39Jay Shetty?

  And, and I hear that when I-

• 53:40Speaker 01

  They're missions for me.

• 53:41Jay Shetty?

  Correct. And when I hear you speak, when I see your activism on social media, it fills me with joy because I do feel that, I mean, any activism is, is good and useful, but when it's sentimental and it's not grounded in research, it can be misplaced and it can, again, create more challenges for the person trying to do it and the person receiving. So when you've built up this research mindset, like you said, it's not impossible and anyone can, can do it. When you've been researching, what's been the research that's most surprised you? Or when you've read something or studied something about an issue and you're like, "I completely missed this when I was just sentimental about it," or when I was just passionate about it, right? Because everything starts with passion. Everything starts with passion or pain. Where you're like, "I've seen this issue, et cetera," but when you saw something, you're like,

• 54:26Jay Shetty?

  "Oh, wow, that's just switched to lightbulb, and now I'm going to approach this differently."

• 54:29Speaker 01

  Yeah. For me, it's really about how much each of these things is tied together. And so, not to get super controversial, but this is what's coming to mind and it feels important. We have a big debate in this country about a woman's right to choose and about abortion access. But what nobody's talking about is at the end of the last presidential administration, we were at an all-time low for women seeking abortions in the United States. Because access to reproductive care, including abortion, had gone up. So women actually had access to all the steps of care that come before it, so they didn't need the last option. They had more access to birth control, they had more access to screenings, they had more access to Planned Parenthood, they had more access to family planning. So they didn't need it.

• 55:13Speaker 01

  And there's all these people who, who have, because so many elected officials have figured out that they can't run on much anymore, so they have to run on something that feels like a nuclear issue? If they can't run on policy and they can't run on healthcare because they're trying to take all those things away from everyone, what can they run on? So they weaponize issues that should be left up to families and their medical care professionals. And they weaponize them with false science, and they weaponize them with fake videos, and they claim that Planned Parenthood is doing terrible things, which they are not.

• 55:45Speaker 01

  And people fall into that because it's media. And it's really sneaky and it's well done and it's hidden. But for me, when I talk to people and I'll sit down with someone who is pro forced birth. I am, I am pro-choice. I'm also wildly lucky. I've never had to make that choice. You know what I mean? Like, I'm very thankful. However, it's not my right to make it for anyone else. But when I talk to people who are pro forced birth, my whole thing is, I get it. I wouldn't want to make that choice. I don't want anybody to have to make that choice. But it's not up to you to say you know more about someone's life than they do. It's not up to me either.

• 56:28Speaker 01

  But if you really wanted to stop abortion from happening, you would be out there rallying for open doors to women's reproductive healthcare access. And they are integally, they are, they are intertwined in such a way they cannot be separated. Because guess what? The same people who are out there fighting to reduce abortion access across America are the people who are trying to stop healthcare providers from providing birth control under insurance. These are people who are continuing to make sure Viagra's covered under insurance. Viagra, which by the way, was rushed through FDA approvals in six months because it met an urgent medical need. But the female Viagra, which I met this incredible woman, her name is Cindy. She's like a total badass.

• 57:13Speaker 01

  And she, she was like, why isn't there a Viagra for women? So she created it. It took her six years, uphill battle. And she actually had an elected official who works for the United States government say, what do we want a bunch of horny women running around for? Which then led me to the point, again, if when you pull out the thread where I was like, oh, so you want to be able to take Viagra and you want to have sex with women whenever you want, but you don't want us to want to have sex with you? So basically what you're saying is you still view us as property. You want us when, when you want it. You don't care how our experience is. And you also want to take birth control away. So like you want us to not be able to plan our life, be able to run for office, be able to do the things you do. I mean, it really. You can't help but understand how it's a bigger picture.

• 57:57Speaker 01

  And if you want to fight for women and families, you have to fight for women and family planning. And that's an issue a lot of people have a hard time with. But we can talk about it like this. We can just look at the data and the reality of the circumstance. And we can do these things together. We can, we can actually, I think, close the loop. It's in the same way that, you know, there's a lot of people out there talking about how we have to change our diets because of climate change. And they're right. But something that I think we're missing is that so many people who are chefs and people who, you know, live in the great American West, who are hunters, who live off the land, are some of the biggest environmental advocates that there are.

• 58:41Speaker 01

  And if we got, you know, all of the progressive, big city, big city vegans together with the chefs who live off the land in states like the Dakotas and Montana, maybe we'd actually get the senators from those states talking to each other and we'd change the food system. And we'd move into regenerative agriculture and we'd stop using pesticides on our animals and our plants and letting them leach into our water and giving everyone in the country cancer. You know, all of this stuff is connected. And the reality is that if we do the research and we see each other, we realize we're all connected too. And, and we have to, I think, follow the data. And we have to look at what's actually happening rather than just our emotional response to it.

• 59:25Speaker 01

  We have to take a step back from our emotions. And then we need to look at who out there is triggering them and why they want to. Because just in the same way that women have been raised for generations to compete with each other or see each other as the enemy when we are a sisterhood and we are all we've ever really had, when you think about it, we should be looking around going, why do they want us fighting? If, if the population is fighting with each other. We're not watching what they're doing.

• 59:55Jay Shetty?

  Totally.

• 59:56Speaker 01

  And right now, in this country, we're seeing senators who aren't doing our bidding. Congress passed a bill about background checks and Mitch McConnell, who is the Senate Majority Leader, who calls himself the Grim Reaper, he actually gets off on the fact that he is committing such dereliction of his elected duty that he gave himself a nickname. He won't vote on it, even though Americans want simple protections that also protect people's right to a hobby. We're so much more on the same team than we think we are. And it's really on us, I think, to do a little bit of research. And let me tell you what, get into the data. Because emotions are hard, but math is perfect. Two plus two always equals four.

• 1:00:39Speaker 01

  The data reports are the things that, when everything feels crazy like this, actually calm me down and motivate me to go out there and fight for people who think like me and for people who don't.

• 1:00:51Jay Shetty?

  Where do people go for that data? Like, where are you finding that best source? So that people are not going into the fake news, not getting lost into the media-paid

• 1:01:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:05Jay Shetty?

  perspectives? Where are you finding that, where you're finding the best data for you?

• 1:01:09Speaker 01

  I really think one of the most important things we have to do, and look, I love social media. It's really fun for connection. Stop getting news on Facebook. Like, just stop. We know that they have lost control of how news is distributed. You know, recently, I mean, this affected you, the Brexit vote, the big referendum, happened and they found that 85% of the ads run about Brexit in the most recent vote were false.

• 1:01:39Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:40Speaker 01

  And those 85% were run by Boris's party. The other party... Didn't run any ads that lied, but they also ran 5% of ads. I mean, it was crazy. And so we have to remember that when things are being bought, they're harder to trust. And it's the same here in the US. Like, a lot of our news, Fox News actually came out last year. I don't know if you saw this and said, well, we're not an actual news program. We're an entertainment program. But they call themselves Fox News.

• 1:02:08Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:08Speaker 01

  You know? And I understand that there are plenty of people who feel like MSNBC is biased. But it's important for us to look at facts. I love to read articles. I read papers I know I can trust. I read news on the BBC. I read news on Al Jazeera. I read news on the New York Times and CNN. And I look at Time Magazine. And I look at reporters who I trust, reporters who put out data. And then I start finding out where they do their research. I look at who they follow. I look at who they retweet. And those are people I gravitate towards. There's an incredible woman who used to be the head of the White House Press Corps. Her name is Jessica Yellin, Y E L L I N. And she does this thing now.

• 1:02:52Speaker 01

  She uses Instagram like a news channel. And she does a thing called News Not Noise. And every day she'll post the news and say, this is noise. This is noise. This is a distraction. Don't worry about these things. These are the things you really need to know.

• 1:03:04Jay Shetty?

  Wow.

• 1:03:05Speaker 01

  And it's such a powerful tool to cut down on the noise. I do a lot of research. I work with a lot of organizations that I trust. And so I share a lot of data on my Instagram as well. I use my Instagram stories almost like the news every day because I know where it's coming from. But I know where it's coming from because I've worked on multiple presidential campaigns. And I've worked from inside the White House. And I, I know who to trust. I speak to attorneys. I talk to lawyers who testified before the Supreme Court. That's my privilege of access. And so I spend it by sharing what they pass on to me with the people who follow me. And that comes from both sides. You know, that's Neil Katyal, who, who gave an incredible perspective on why impeachment is important and what it's meant to do.

• 1:03:50Speaker 01

  And then it's Evan McMullin, who was the former Foreign Policy Director of the GOP. He's another person that I source news from. And I think it's important for us to go to sources that are really verified and trustworthy and global.

• 1:04:08Speaker 01

  You know, we we should understand the way the news is being reported in other places. I mean, the BBC does such a good job. Like, I can't imagine having getting to grow up with the BBC on in the background. You lucky man. We can set boundaries so that this stuff doesn't overwhelm us. But for me, figuring out where the truth is, that feels like. You know that movie National Treasure? It's like, that's my national treasure hunt.

• 1:04:33Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:34Speaker 01

  And and then it makes me feel so excited.

• 1:04:38Jay Shetty?

  And it's almost like half the battle is won by the truth.

• 1:04:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:41Jay Shetty?

  Because once you have the data, you have clarity, you can then you can make an informed decision, you can add your passion where it actually matters.

• 1:04:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:51Jay Shetty?

  You know what's actually being affected. Tell us about now that the kind of the other side of it, which is the boundaries that you're setting so that you're not just constantly being triggered or that you're not just being negative or angry or just kind of reacting irrationally. What are you doing on that front? Apart from the data, which I think is a huge one for it. What else are you doing or what boundaries can people set for their own sanity?

• 1:05:17Speaker 01

  I mean, that's a hard one, and that's taken some learning because there are some days when I am just pissed. I'm pissed when I hear that protection of water is being rolled back as if somehow pollution cares if you're a Democrat or a Republican, you know? Climate science should be our priority, no matter how liberal or conservative we are in every country, everywhere. This matters, you know? It was just 70 degrees in Antarctica in February. This is not okay. And that's just a fact.

• 1:05:47Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:47Speaker 01

  But for me.

• 1:05:48Jay Shetty?

  Just like you would for your home.

• 1:05:49Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:05:50Jay Shetty?

  No matter what home you live in.

• 1:05:51Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:05:52Jay Shetty?

  And no matter what side you're on or what your belief, sir.

• 1:05:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:05:55Jay Shetty?

  You care about the health of your home.

• 1:05:57Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:05:57Jay Shetty?

  Whether it's, you know, whether the rent's been paid, whether it's been checked, whether it's been, you know, all of that. And the earth's our home. It's as simple as that.

• 1:06:05Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:06:05Jay Shetty?

  So.

• 1:06:06Speaker 01

  And and you realize, again, that all the messaging that's made us feel as though it's up for debate. Someone's profiting off of that in a big way. And it's up to us to come in and advocate for our home.

• 1:06:21Speaker 01

  And and I've had to learn in a way to advocate for this home for myself. And it's not always easy, you know, being a person in the public eye is strange, the way that people talk to you, the way they think they have a right to talk to you. The things they want to say almost because they feel like that person could use a cut down. It's like I get a cut down every day. It's really hard to be on the receiving end of thousands of them a day.

• 1:06:43Jay Shetty?

  Oh, so you're saying that they actually feel that because you have a platform.

• 1:06:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:06:48Jay Shetty?

  And that do they do they do you think they assume that you don't know your stuff as well?

• 1:06:52Speaker 01

  Absolutely. There's a lot of people who say stick to acting. I'm like, well, clearly you didn't know that I was a journalism major who was taking an emphasis in political science when I was in college. This is what I know.

• 1:07:02Speaker 01

  Interesting.

• 1:07:04Speaker 01

  But

• 1:07:06Speaker 01

  it can be a lot to be on the receiving end of a of a deluge, whether that's in commentary, criticism, threat, or just a never ending news cycle that's sort of been designed like a cage match, which also doesn't make sense to me.

• 1:07:21Speaker 01

  So for me, I have had to learn to filter. There are some days when I'm really angry. And I used to be angrier publicly.

• 1:07:33Speaker 01

  And

• 1:07:35Speaker 01

  I have learned as I've gotten older and wiser about where to spend my anger, because that is a privilege you spend also.

• 1:07:42Jay Shetty?

  Love that, yeah.

• 1:07:43Speaker 01

  And about how to bring people into conversations rather than push them out. And that's not to say there, look, there's always people who feel pushed out. There's always people who feel like I'm doing it wrong, but I can tell what the sort of percentages are. And I've had to learn that as a practice and as something I deserve to learn because it makes me feel better to be cultivating a space that is very factual, very data driven, very serious. You know, I'm not here to hold, you know, to hold the hand of cruel people, but I am here to welcome people to a space with tenderness and intellect. That feels like a mission for me. And

• 1:08:23Jay Shetty?

  That tenderness and interlaced, it's powerful.

• 1:08:26Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 1:08:26Jay Shetty?

  Sorry, Karen.

• 1:08:27Speaker 01

  You know, as James Baldwin said, I love my country and so I reserve the right to criticize her. Because I want her to be the best version of herself. I want to build her into the best version of herself. And I think about that a lot. I reserve the right because of love. And beginning to figure out how to have that be my drumbeat in everything I do in the world.

• 1:08:52Speaker 01

  I'm sure five years from now, I'm going to look back at now in the way that I'm looking at five years ago and go, oh, my God, I've learned so much since then.

• 1:08:57Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, of course.

• 1:08:58Speaker 01

  But I, I do, I, I think about the way I communicate and I try to make sure it's rooted in tenderness in the same way that my ferocity is rooted in love. And then I take days off. Like, I'll take a Saturday and just put my phone away and binge Netflix. Or walk the dog. You know, I take my dog Griffin on a hike and I, and I go and I meet friends and we do like bottomless mimosas at brunch and every, you need that. You need joy.

• 1:09:34Speaker 01

  You know, even the warriors need to celebrate. And, and I remember many years ago, taking a, with a wonderful advocacy group that was working on a human rights atrocity happening in Uganda. We took 10,000 kids and we marched on Washington DC and we eventually got President Obama to sign a bill and the whole thing was incredible. And there was a man who spoke at that march. And I know he was important, but I've seen a lot of important people speak. I couldn't tell you who he was. I don't remember. I remember his face. I don't remember his name. I don't remember what he did. But I remember when he said, for every state, for every step you take in defense of another, you should dance in celebration.

• 1:10:21Speaker 01

  Of this. And I thought, oh, so many of us are missing that. We're missing the celebration. We're missing the reveling in the joy that we have something to defend. And, and for me, when I feel like I'm getting too stressed, too overwhelmed, when my temper gets short, I'm like, oh, I haven't been celebrating the wins. I haven't been acknowledging the masterpiece. I've just been so head down on the work in progress. And I have to do both. It's also an act of resistance. It's an act of self-love. It's an act of self-care. It's probably, you know, my doctor would say like, an act of preserving your heart into your old age, you know, like, don't put yourself in too much cardiac stress.

• 1:11:05Speaker 01

  So that, that feels important. And now I'm at a point in my life where I have done so much work and I do pay so much attention, that I've learned to pay attention to myself and that little voice in me that goes like, I'm not okay today. And then I go, ah, I need to, I need to disconnect or I need to celebrate for, for that part of myself.

• 1:11:26Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. And I always find that when you're active in making the change, you actually carry the burden less in one sense.

• 1:11:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:11:38Jay Shetty?

  In the sense that when you're seeing progress, when you're turning up, when you're noticing people's lives change, that will incentivizes you more to continue.

• 1:11:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:11:48Jay Shetty?

  And, and I find that sometimes our apathy or our disengagement from something because it's complicated, because it's hard, because it's tough to deal with, that actually makes it heavier.

• 1:12:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:12:00Jay Shetty?

  And, and so it's almost like when we're lightening other people's loads, it becomes lighter for us too.

• 1:12:05Speaker 01

  Because then it becomes a relay race.

• 1:12:06Jay Shetty?

  Correct.

• 1:12:07Speaker 01

  Then we're passing the baton. We're not on this marathon road feeling tortured, like, how many more miles? You know, looking at your Fitbit or Apple Watch or whatever. A relay, we can run. We can run for each other. And other people running remind, reminds us we have the power to do it too. And yeah, it feels important. And something else that struck me when you were saying that, when, when you, when you lean into the apathy or the fear, or you think, I can't possibly do anything about this, what that does is that puts you back on the hamster wheel of feeling small and feeling powerless. And every time we feel small, every time we feel powerless, every time we get apathetic.

• 1:12:49Speaker 01

  The people who are making the money on our apathy win. You know, the Wizard of Oz, who's just a guy controlling a puppet who doesn't know what he's doing. Those people are winning when we believe the lie that we're not powerful.

• 1:13:06Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. That's so true. So true. And I've always felt that whenever I've got involved, people are always just like, oh, how are you so positive? Or how do you believe that things are going to be better, whatever? And I'm like, because I'm seeing it happen. I'm seeing people's lives, whether it's one person or a thousand people or a million people, whatever it is, like witnessing that, of course, that fills you with pride and joy and celebration, like you're saying of like, because you can see what there is to celebrate. It's not that you're just positive because you're being positive. It's like when you see someone smile, when you see someone cry out of joy, when you see someone who's had their life transformed because of the work, the money, the energy, the time that was positioned rightly to support them.

• 1:13:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:13:52Jay Shetty?

  That, all that can do is fill you up with joy. It can't fill you up with anything else. And so, yeah, I'm so grateful that you're approaching everything with so much openness. When I hear you, there's no, like, there's no rigidity of thought. Like, you're very open. The data is rigid and that is what it is. But after that, you're so open. And I think that's needed so much, that open conversation, that open dialogue, the ability to sit in rooms with people who don't think the same as us without any anger or fear or judgment. Like, that's what's needed so much because the answer has to come, as you keep saying, is it's going to come through connection, it's going to come through being together. It's not going to come through being in opposite rooms. Like, when was anything solved?

• 1:14:37Jay Shetty?

  Being stuck in a different room from someone else and not going into the same space?

• 1:14:40Speaker 01

  We don't solve in a vacuum.

• 1:14:42Jay Shetty?

  No, never. And it's not possible. So I really appreciate the way you share and the way you express everything that you're sharing with me because it just feels real, like it feels without. Judgment, and it feels genuine and sincere from, like you said, someone who genuinely loves. And, and I think that that's what's needed is that if we're all working from that place of like, are we doing this for us and our people and their people? Or are we doing this just for love? Because that's a different binding force.

• 1:15:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:15:14Jay Shetty?

  When it becomes about us and them, or our people and their people, it's like, let's, what are you basing that on? Because you could slice and dice that pretty much anyway. Uh, but when you're looking at it from that point of view. So yeah, thank you. Thank you so much. I, I really hope that everyone who's listening and watching today is feeling that much more educated on how to approach this. Because I think that's what I'm learning the most from the way you're sharing is you're giving us a method to approach this. And you're giving us the freedom to decide whatever it may be. But we need to use this methodology to approach this.

• 1:15:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think it's really important. And, and if I may, you know, for anyone in the U S who's listening to this, we have elections coming up. Uh, a lot of people don't realize they've been purged from the voter rolls. A lot of people need to reregister because they've moved. It feels kind of complicated. I'm very lucky to be a founding member of a nonpartisan civic engagement organization called I Am A Voter that literally just helps you make sure you're ready to vote. And if you text the word voter to two, six, seven, nine, seven, that's voter to two, six, seven, nine, seven. In under ninety seconds, you can check your registration, reregister if you're not registered. And it'll give you the address of your polling place.

• 1:16:32Jay Shetty?

  That's awesome.

• 1:16:33Speaker 01

  And it's like, there you go. You're, you just know what you need to know. Uh, it's, it's the easiest, quick little chatbot I've ever encountered and it doesn't bother you after the fact, you know? It'll give you a reminder when your election's coming up.

• 1:16:48Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:48Speaker 01

  Which is, I think, a lovely thing to have, but it's not like there, your information isn't being sold anywhere. Nothing nefarious is being done with it. We just wanted people to have a quick and easy resource because it should feel simple and empowering to participate in the world in which you live.

• 1:17:08Jay Shetty?

  Absolutely. How is your activism affected your acting or your acting affected your activism?

• 1:17:15Speaker 01

  Um, well, the acting is what gave me the platform, which is everything, you know? And the activism.

• 1:17:23Speaker 01

  I've had the pleasure of proving over time, you know, to stay in the ring, to be serious about it. And what's really incredible is that now there are people I meet who will say, I got to know you as an activist and then I found your work. Or I got to know you as an actor and then I really fell for you as an activist. It's really cool when people want to be on a journey with you, not just for what you make, but who you are.

• 1:17:50Jay Shetty?

  Hmm.

• 1:17:51Speaker 01

  You know, the activism is who I am. My career, which I love, is what I do.

• 1:17:57Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:58Speaker 01

  And when I get to bridge those things, when I get to bring what I know from service into characters I've played or into the way they think about things, that feels really cool.

• 1:18:10Jay Shetty?

  Hmm. Do you think being vocal around specific things affects your roles in the media and how much work or?

• 1:18:19Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:18:19Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:19Speaker 01

  I've lost out on a ton of work because I'm quote, too political.

• 1:18:24Jay Shetty?

  Wow.

• 1:18:25Speaker 01

  But what am I gonna do? Watch the world burn and make more money and pretend I don't care? I'm like, keep your blood money.

• 1:18:32Jay Shetty?

  Hmm.

• 1:18:33Speaker 01

  I'd much rather do the jobs that I love and live a life that I'm proud of, which by the way, is still great. You know?

• 1:18:42Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, and I love that. I think that's why we should want to see people, you know, as soon as someone says, oh, well, we won't cast someone or work with someone professionally because of specific things, that's, it's a sign that there's something that's challenged there.

• 1:19:01Speaker 01

  Mm hmm. And I think it's a sign that they know they've been doing something wrong and they don't want to be so challenged.

• 1:19:09Jay Shetty?

  Hmm.

• 1:19:11Speaker 01

  They don't want people to look at their books or look under their covers. And I want to look into all of it.

• 1:19:16Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:17Speaker 01

  I got asked on the podcast, I did an interview, and the person I was interviewing said, okay, let's just play a game. And let's say tomorrow you were the President of the United States, what would you do? And I'd say, I said, ooh, I want to do a forensic fiscal audit of the entire United States government, the budget and the budget of every state in the Union. I want to know where all the money is going.

• 1:19:40Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:40Speaker 01

  And my, the guy I was interviewing was like, oh, damn. I was like, yeah.

• 1:19:45Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:46Speaker 01

  I wanna look, I wanna look in the cupboards and behind the fridge. I wanna look at all of it.

• 1:19:51Jay Shetty?

  Absolutely, yeah.

• 1:19:52Speaker 01

  I think if we drag it all out, we can streamline it, clean it up. And I feel that way about all of the things. And, you know, I'm, I'm very proud to live by my morals in my life and in my work. And I, again, I'm sure that a couple of years from now, I'll look back at today and think, oh, if only I'd known then what I know now, I'd have been doing even better.

• 1:20:18Jay Shetty?

  Of course.

• 1:20:19Speaker 01

  But that's the point of life.

• 1:20:20Jay Shetty?

  Totally.

• 1:20:21Speaker 01

  We're supposed to evolve. If we don't evolve, we die. It's like sharks have to swim forever, right? Cause they never stop moving or they die. And I think that as humans, you know, living in these bodies with legs that walk us around and really liking to sit down, at least I really like to sit down. I love a lounge. I, I think that our, our constant motion that keeps us alive is learning, it's evolving, it's, it's growing.

• 1:20:50Jay Shetty?

  And, and I guess one of the big things for me that I find is, how do we keep going even when it feels like everything's going right? That's actually what I find most fascinating. Like whichever, whichever, whatever you're in, whatever side you're on, whatever your preferences, whatever it is, let's say things are going your way. How do you still be a part of the change? Because to me, when things are going well, that's when you have to go all in. It's like on your health, right? It's like, let's say your physical body and your mental health. And I do this every day because I'm traveling across the country, speaking about mental health, speaking about wellbeing.

• 1:21:31Jay Shetty?

  And I come across so many people. I was just at a conference this week and I was speaking at this really large corporation. And I could tell that the CEO was kind of saw a lot of mindfulness and meditation and wellbeing as a bit woo woo. He's a bit like, oh, yeah, yeah, you, you play with that, you know? And, and his, um,

• 1:21:54Jay Shetty?

  His head of HR, his global head of HR, she was highly into this stuff. So she was, you know, me and her were really getting along and talking about all of this stuff and about wellbeing and sleep and decision making is all important. Especially when all these leaders are leading like thousands of people in their teams and hundreds of thousands of people. But I could tell that he kind of saw what we were into as a bit like beneath him almost. He didn't really value mental wellbeing. You know, he's, he's an old school guy and doesn't really see it as like an issue in his own.

• 1:22:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, he thinks it's frivolous or, or extra.

• 1:22:26Jay Shetty?

  Totally, yeah. Well, I think, yeah, exactly. Extracurricular, it's probably a cost to the company, probably even having me the head.

• 1:22:32Speaker 01

  He's like, what is this guy doing here?

• 1:22:34Jay Shetty?

  And it's like, you know, she's there and she's really into it. I can tell that. And I can tell she's even scared of opening up about how much of a practitioner she is of yoga and mental health and everything and mindfulness, because she almost feels judged in her workplace. And so anyway, I'm, I'm, I'm watching this and I'm just thinking that, and, and, and I address it in my keynote without addressing him or anyone in particular. And I'm just like, you know, when you think that you've got it all together and that you don't need this stuff, like that should be the time when you think you need it the most. It's like when your health is at its best place, that is not the time to stop spending time on your health, right? When something is working, that's not the time.

• 1:23:15Jay Shetty?

  And, and this is how I feel about, this is, I don't know, you know, I'm, I'm going to say it because I think it's really important to say it. I don't really, you can do anything and vote and everything and everything could go your way, but please don't stop there.

• 1:23:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:23:35Jay Shetty?

  Because that's my biggest fear when things are going our way as humanity. We just give up once we get what we think we want, right? It's like, once you made it, like, once you chased that girl or guy and you got them, then you stop putting in the effort. Once you chased and got that job that you worked really hard for, you stop putting in the effort. Once you got that promotion and you stop putting in the effort. That's just how the human mind works. It works really hard in the chase and then after the chase, it's kind of like, ah, we, we did it now.

• 1:24:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:24:03Jay Shetty?

  And it's almost like, how do we keep that momentum? Because I think that there have been times in history where politically, financially, environmentally, socially, we believed we'd done it. And that was the reason why things went backwards again. Does that make sense?

• 1:24:20Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, we gotta stay vigilant.

• 1:24:21Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:22Speaker 01

  But the vigilance doesn't have to feel like a chore.

• 1:24:24Jay Shetty?

  No.

• 1:24:25Speaker 01

  It can feel like a rallying cry.

• 1:24:27Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:27Speaker 01

  It's like you can feel that alive every day. And I think the perspective shift is important. So Esther

• 1:24:35Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:35Speaker 01

  says that on average, couples go to marriage counseling seven years too late.

• 1:24:43Jay Shetty?

  Hmm, wow, that is late.

• 1:24:45Speaker 01

  Seven years too late.

• 1:24:46Jay Shetty?

  Hmm.

• 1:24:47Speaker 01

  And we have this idea that we are supposed to go fix something only when it's unbearable, rather than look at what's going right and figure out how to make it even better. You know? And I think a marriage is a really good example. Because if you're really happy, don't you want to learn tips to make that happiness last? Don't you want to learn how to communicate even better than you already do? You know, don't you want to learn how to like, keep the spark alive for even longer? Whatever the thing is. And I think we have to have that kind of understanding about how we move in the world. When things are going well, we should figure out why.

• 1:25:27Jay Shetty?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:25:27Speaker 01

  We should figure out how to sustain them. And then we should figure out how to do better.

• 1:25:31Jay Shetty?

  Hundred percent.

• 1:25:31Speaker 01

  When we feel safe in our life, we should look at someone in our community who maybe doesn't and figure out how to pull them up to our level.

• 1:25:38Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 1:25:40Speaker 01

  You know?

• 1:25:40Jay Shetty?

  Yes, but on.

• 1:25:41Speaker 01

  Those things feel really important. And I think, again, instead of looking at this stuff as a chore, we should look at it as an opportunity.

• 1:25:53Jay Shetty?

  Hundred percent.

• 1:25:54Speaker 01

  It's like, how lucky if your life is great?

• 1:25:58Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:58Speaker 01

  How lucky you are that you can make it even better?

• 1:26:00Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:01Speaker 01

  And if you're having a hard time, how lucky you are that you could do a little bit of research and figure out how to Change it.

• 1:26:10Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:11Speaker 01

  Figure out who to vote for.

• 1:26:12Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:12Speaker 01

  You know, you're stressed out about who's running your country. Look at your local elected officials. Who's running your city? Who's running your neighborhood? How, how do we make change on a local level?

• 1:26:24Jay Shetty?

  Hmm.

• 1:26:24Speaker 01

  We have so much opportunity.

• 1:26:26Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:26Speaker 01

  And instead of being paralyzed by it, I think we should be excited.

• 1:26:31Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And, and that's what I mean, like, you know, it's feeling like you're done or feeling like one decision or one moment will change the trajectory of a city, a country, a town, a company, a family, whatever it is. It just doesn't work like that. This is all ongoing work.

• 1:26:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:26:50Jay Shetty?

  And a moment can trigger and incentivize more growth in the right direction. But we should never bank that a moment can change everything. It doesn't work in that way. Like every, if we want something huge to happen for the world or ourselves, it has to be a daily commitment we make. It has to be a weekly commitment we make. And like you said, that's not a chore. It's not, it's not like boring discipline. It's, it's fun. It's exciting. It's something to live for. It's meaning. It's purpose. It's, it's all of that stuff.

• 1:27:21Speaker 01

  Yes. And so, okay.

• 1:27:23Jay Shetty?

  Hmm.

• 1:27:23Speaker 01

  What I'll admit is that I understand that on this big, like, love the world level.

• 1:27:31Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:32Speaker 01

  But let me tell you something. We talked about this six months ago. I have really, here's a work in progress thing, really been trying to get back into a daily meditation practice. And I'm just not clicking in. I am just not. And I'm, the irony is not lost on me, that I am just not mentally clicking into the reality that I have the privilege of doing that for myself.

• 1:28:00Jay Shetty?

  Hmm.

• 1:28:00Speaker 01

  That I deserve that. I am not sinking into, this is what I do for me and I am so lucky.

• 1:28:08Jay Shetty?

  Hmm.

• 1:28:09Speaker 01

  And I, I have to call myself out on it right now because, again, there's always a thing to do. There's always a thing to improve. There's always a thing to learn. And I'm stuck on that. I'm stuck on that hurdle.

• 1:28:20Jay Shetty?

  Well, that's why we're gonna go to India together.

• 1:28:21Speaker 01

  Great.

• 1:28:23Jay Shetty?

  But I I've called myself on that so many times because I was someone who focused on mastering the mind so much, but I neglected my body. And so for me, it was the other way around, where in 2019, I was far more focused on physical exercise and my physical health. And even this year, I cut out sugar and it's been changed my life. And just so many things that I've been focusing on in the same way. And so, yeah, we 100%. I always call myself on the other one. So, but yeah, no, I'm glad I'm glad where we've evolved this conversation. And I want to talk a bit about now, about how you built this platform.

• 1:29:01Speaker 01

  How we got here?

• 1:29:02Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, how we got here, because, you know, this is Sophia's heart, for anyone who's listening and watching. I had this, you know, Sophia's a friend, and obviously, I'm a I'm a big fan of her and her work, both in acting and activism. So I wanted to speak about both today. And I was I was going to go from acting into activism, but we're doing it the other way around, because her heart pulled us to activism. And now we're going back. But it is important for everyone listening and watching to understand and to hear about your journey. Because even for you, I mean, you almost stumbled into acting because of a high school requirement.

• 1:29:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:29:31Jay Shetty?

  Right? It wasn't even like, it was just, tell us about that and tell us about the the joy of things happening in that way sometimes.

• 1:29:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was so surreal. I I grew up, you know, wanting to save the world and save all the animals. And then I wanted to save all the people. And I thought, I'm gonna be a doctor. First, I thought I'd be a vet. And then I decided I wanted to be a doctor. And I think there's also that cultural thing. You know, my dad is an immigrant. He moved to the US in the 1970s from Canada. And my mom is first generation on her side. Her mom came through Ellis Island, like, full American dream story from Italy. And I I always joke with people, it's like, you know, in immigrant families, it's like, you can be a doctor, or a lawyer, or a lawyer, or a doctor. And people are always like, is your family from New York? I'm like, all of my mom's family, like, Aunt, you know,

• 1:30:21Speaker 01

  Aunt Jo and Uncle Raymond, like, those are my, those are my people. And so I was kind of on that track, like, this is what you do. And, you know, my parents cultivated this life. And I have the privilege to go to a private school, which was never lost on me. And I knew what my tuition cost. And I knew all of that stuff. I knew that it was a thing I needed to be grateful for, and that I was lucky to have. And so. I was like, well, obviously I'm gonna go to medical school because like that's what good girls do. That's what good kids do. My dad now is like, you, I always thought you were gonna be a lawyer. He's like, listen to you. So like, you mean arguing in data points for the betterment of human society? Weird. I have no idea why you would have thought that. But I had this requirement. My school was amazing. You know, we celebrated

• 1:31:06Speaker 01

  everyone's cultures and holidays. And we had these, this two years of arts requirements in middle school, seventh and eighth grade. And every semester, you had to pursue a different kind of art. And my friend, who I was talking about earlier, whom I'm still friends with, she was a theater kid. And I'm talking like, sing show tunes, you know, walked through the halls of school singing in falsetto. I was like, I love you the most, but like, we're not the same. Like, I'm not this. And I never thought theater was for me because I wasn't a musical theater kid. The irony is that now that, you know, now that I'm an adult, all I want to do is go see musicals in New York. But not the point. And I had

• 1:31:47Speaker 01

  to do this play. And I was so annoyed because it was the same semester as volleyball. And it meant I couldn't play volleyball. And I just thought this was so horrible. And I had this light bulb moment, because I always loved English, and I loved literature, and I loved reading, and I loved stories. And still to this day, I can't give anyone a book I've read because it's underlined and annotated and folded and notes everywhere. And I did a play, and it was like a book came to life. And I was like, do people know? Does anyone know that this is what theater is? And then I went really deep into the sort of oral tradition of humanity, and how before there was written language, we shared

• 1:32:29Speaker 01

  stories and the orators were the secret keepers, and that was how we survived. And I was like, this is sacred. Like, how middle school dramatic, right? But also true. And so I started doing theater all through high school. And my parents loved it because I was so passionate about it. And they just thought it was a great extracurricular. And then I told them that I wasn't gonna go to medical school. I wanted to apply to a theater conservatory. And they were like, oh, my God. And I got into a BFA program, which is a Bachelor of Fine Arts degree. And it's small. And, you know, 14 kids get accepted, and you have to audition, and it's a whole thing. And I got there.

• 1:33:14Speaker 01

  And for me at that stage, I think because I'd been so academic always, there was a looseness to that that really wasn't good for me. It made me anxious and it it didn't feel like it was serving me. And I don't think I had the wherewithal or the relationship with myself to figure out why, or to know what questions to ask. I just went, this isn't for me. Not the acting, but the program, this isn't for me. So I transferred into the journalism school, to the Annenberg School of Journalism at USC, and I was studying political science and communications and thriving. And my little brain was just on

• 1:33:57Speaker 01

  fire. And when my brain was on fire with the way that we tell stories about people, I started booking all of these auditions I was going on in my after-college class schedule. And I did this HBO movie, and then I worked on the first season of this show called Nip Tuck. And then I booked this pilot, and the pilot didn't go, but those producers did this other pilot, and they wanted me to come and read, because they said, we made this show. I'll never forget it. This producer named Joe DeBola, who's so funny, he goes, we made this TV show, and all these kids are so depressing, they make you want to kill yourself. It's like, we need somebody to come in and be funny. Stir the pot. We want you to come read for this. And I was like, I didn't know what I was doing. I was 20 years old. And I was like, okay. You know, I was a junior in

• 1:34:41Speaker 01

  college, just figuring things out. I'd done my pilot on my spring break. My agents were like, you can't treat your career like an extracurricular activity. And I was like, it is my extracurricular activity. I'm in school. Literally. And I'm in like, the honors program. What are you talking about? Um, I have an academic scholarship. I have to keep my grades up. It was, you know, it was like, a whole thing. And I went and I read for this TV show called One Tree Hill. And I booked it. And I had to move to North Carolina two weeks later.

• 1:35:14Speaker 01

  And I was like, I don't know if I can do this. This is my senior year in college. Like, these are the days everyone talks about. Thank God, my advisor, Annie, in the journalism school, sat me down. I'd never heard her swear, by the way. And excuse me if I offend anyone, but look, it's a quote. And she looked at me, she goes, are you kidding me? Go! You can always come back to school. This is what you want to do with your life. And this woman was like, so sweet and little and polite. And so I was shocked when she swore at me. I was like, oh, my God. And so I went. And the show took off and it was...

• 1:35:53Jay Shetty?

  I used to watch.

• 1:35:53Speaker 01

  Yeah. It was like the best of times and the worst of times. We all made our worst mistakes. We had some of our greatest successes. The girls and I are like so tight, which is the best. And we weren't always, and we talk about it. You know, we came up through it together. And now it's like, we're like a little crew of piranhas. Like, anyone comes for one of us and we're all right there. And I love them with my whole heart. And yeah, I became a director on that show. I mean, I got, I'm in the DGA because of that show. I started going on Tech Scouts and learning about production and really diving in, partially to keep myself sane because we were in this small town.

• 1:36:37Speaker 01

  We also couldn't get away from each other. It's like, look, we loved each other, but we couldn't get away from each other. It's kind of like being homeschooled, you know? You just want to get out in the world, but you're like there with your siblings. And, you know, it's like, it's so many things. And it was beautiful and it was weird and it was fun and it was painful. And we learned a lot. And I was doing environmental work, but also the attention, the becoming like a, becoming tabloid fodder is really traumatizing. And people say you signed up for it and it's like, nobody signs up for it.

• 1:37:22Speaker 01

  You don't know what it is. You can't imagine what it is until it happens to you. And so I think there was a period where...

• 1:37:31Speaker 01

  I pushed away public attention as much as I could. And then, you know, I would, I would go to the fundraiser, I would do the thing, but I really just, I didn't want to be out there.

• 1:37:42Speaker 01

  And then Deepwater Horizon happened and I was mad as hell. And I got a call from these lawyers at Global Green, who was this organization that I worked with for a very long time. And they said, everything you're seeing on the news is a lie. It's martial law down here. It's bad.

• 1:38:01Speaker 01

  And something clicked and people had been asking me, why aren't you getting on Twitter? Why aren't you getting on Twitter? I was like, who cares about breakfast food photos? The irony of how many chefs I follow on social media. I care, it turns out. But I realized I could get on Twitter and I could go there and I could be the news. I'm a journalist. I can do this. And I got on a plane two weeks later and I launched a Twitter account. And I was, within two days, doing satellite feed interviews on the news, telling people what I was seeing, telling people what the experience was, talking about the fact that they were busing in young men of color from the poorest parts of Louisiana, and telling them that if they wore respirators on the beach during cleanup of carcinogenic toxic

• 1:38:46Speaker 01

  waste, they would lose their jobs because the photos looked bad for BP. I talked about this on the news. And it was that, that experience where I went, oh, see, here's what's happened. I've been driving a car for a long time, okay? And then I got on the autobahn and I put the pedal to the metal and now I know what it feels like to race and I'm racing for them. And I'm racing for you and I'm racing for that guy over there who thinks he hates me, but he's got kids and I want his kids to have healthcare and free school lunch and whatever. Like now I've tasted it and I'll never go back. And I, and I realized that I could use my voice and I could use that gross kind of

• 1:39:29Speaker 01

  attention and ickiness that people want to put on celebrities and especially the way that they want to pick women apart like, you know, carcasses for the feast. And I was like, oh, I'm about to do something with this. Here we go.

• 1:39:45Speaker 01

  And I had to learn and I had to sit at the feet of people smarter than me and I had to show up and I had to make mistakes and I still make mistakes and I'm not perfect. But when I tell you I have applied a dedication to this, like almost nothing else in my life, that's how it feels. And, and so that was really how, how the whole thing started. You know, I did nine years on a TV show and, and I set myself on fire as a warrior for my community while I was there.

• 1:40:19Jay Shetty?

  I love that.

• 1:40:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:40:21Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, thank you for sharing that. It's, yeah, I don't think ever, you know, for, I work with so many people and speak to so many people and getting criticized is getting criticized or getting pulled apart or getting trolled or whatever it is, whether it's in the newspapers or online, it doesn't feel any better depending on your status in whatever way it is.

• 1:40:44Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 1:40:44Jay Shetty?

  You know, money doesn't replace, people often think, oh yeah, well, you probably don't hear it if you live in a mansion, right? And it's like, well, no, the people are people, humans are humans, the same stuff hurts. It's not replaced, hurt cannot be replaced by a car or money or whatever it is, you know?

• 1:41:03Speaker 01

  Yeah. And, and you know, when your mom calls you crying because she is reading the comments.

• 1:41:09Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:10Speaker 01

  Or when your parents have someone show up at their home to threaten you, you know, nothing protects you from that.

• 1:41:18Jay Shetty?

  No, exactly.

• 1:41:19Speaker 01

  And it's really weird the way we treat people.

• 1:41:23Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:24Speaker 01

  But I took my power back by living out loud as this warrior person.

• 1:41:35Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:41:36Jay Shetty?

  I love it. All right, Sophia, I'm gonna ask you to use your warrior persona to do the final section of our podcast.

• 1:41:46Speaker 01

  Oh, is it the speed round?

• 1:41:46Jay Shetty?

  So first, we've got a new part.

• 1:41:48Speaker 01

  Oh, okay.

• 1:41:49Jay Shetty?

  It's called Fill in the Blanks.

• 1:41:50Speaker 01

  See, this is how you know I listen.

• 1:41:52Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I know.

• 1:41:52Speaker 01

  It's time, it's time.

• 1:41:53Jay Shetty?

  So this is Fill in the Blanks.

• 1:41:54Speaker 01

  Fill in the blanks, okay.

• 1:41:55Jay Shetty?

  So you have to fill in the blanks with the last word, and then we have the final five.

• 1:42:00Speaker 01

  Oh, my God, I'm terrible at picking. I mean, literally, my hands just started sweating. Okay, I'm gonna try.

• 1:42:04Jay Shetty?

  But they're all, they're all aimed at your warrior-ness. Like, they're not just, you know, they're, they're on brand. Okay, so, freedom for all is.

• 1:42:13Speaker 01

  Everything.

• 1:42:15Jay Shetty?

  True equality starts with.

• 1:42:17Speaker 01

  Us.

• 1:42:18Jay Shetty?

  Being brave means.

• 1:42:20Speaker 01

  Being vulnerable.

• 1:42:23Jay Shetty?

  Absolute kindness is not.

• 1:42:25Speaker 01

  hateful.

• 1:42:28Jay Shetty?

  Acting has allowed me to.

• 1:42:30Speaker 01

  Have a platform.

• 1:42:32Jay Shetty?

  The best acting is.

• 1:42:34Speaker 01

  Honest.

• 1:42:35Jay Shetty?

  Change is hardest when.

• 1:42:37Speaker 01

  When it, when it's, when it's got to change inside, I think.

• 1:42:43Jay Shetty?

  Okay. I have no tolerance for.

• 1:42:46Speaker 01

  Mean people.

• 1:42:49Jay Shetty?

  Okay, good. Okay, here are you.

• 1:42:52Speaker 01

  I was gonna use another word, but I decided to be nicer about it.

• 1:42:55Jay Shetty?

  You were quick.

• 1:42:55Speaker 01

  Literally, my hands are sweating.

• 1:42:58Jay Shetty?

  Really?

• 1:42:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, it gave me, this is stressful.

• 1:42:59Jay Shetty?

  No.

• 1:42:59Speaker 01

  Because here's the thing, you're sitting across from me, and like, we're in the warrior moment, and we're talking about passion, but like, also, I'm just a kid who can't believe I'm an adult, who's trying to figure it out, who's scared all the time, and who's so sensitive that things that I read on the internet, whether they're amazing news stories, or, or mean comments, or like, even when I watch dog food commercials, all of it makes me cry.

• 1:43:24Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:24Speaker 01

  So it's like, I think as strong as you are is as tender and as frightened as you are, and so I, I, I feel like it's also, I have the responsibility to share that part, because it's really easy to talk about the masterpiece stuff.

• 1:43:36Jay Shetty?

  Totally.

• 1:43:37Speaker 01

  But like. Woo. So yeah, when I'm like, oh God, I have to perform. And what if I don't do it well enough? And I got like, then my hands start sweating.

• 1:43:43Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, exactly. I always say that. People are like, I've been speaking since I went to public speaking drama school when I was 14, finished when I was 18. I've been speaking on stages ever since I was 18. And so people are always like, don't you feel, do you feel scared when you go on stage? You've done it for so long. I'm like, I still feel scared.

• 1:43:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:43:59Jay Shetty?

  Every time before I walk onto a stage, if I care, I feel scared. And that's what I've learned, that I feel scared when I most care. And I will, my, my heart will start beating faster.

• 1:44:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:44:10Jay Shetty?

  Uh, my hands can get shaky. I can feel sweaty and I love that feeling now because I've learned to.

• 1:44:15Speaker 01

  Well, you know, you're alive.

• 1:44:16Jay Shetty?

  To love it. Yeah, I've learned to love it, but.

• 1:44:18Speaker 01

  I wanted to do good for you and I was like, oh God, oh God, oh God.

• 1:44:20Jay Shetty?

  Well, you did really good. Okay. So this is your final five.

• 1:44:23Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:44:23Jay Shetty?

  These, these are the ones that you know about. So the rapid fire, quick fire round. Okay. So one word or one sentence answers maximum. So Sophia, these are your final five. Question one, what have you been chasing in your life that you no longer pursue?

• 1:44:36Speaker 01

  Approval.

• 1:44:38Jay Shetty?

  Okay. Question two.

• 1:44:39Speaker 01

  That's a work in progress, but that's the one.

• 1:44:41Jay Shetty?

  What question do you wish more people would ask each other more often?

• 1:44:48Speaker 01

  What keeps you up at night?

• 1:44:51Jay Shetty?

  Question number three, what was your biggest lesson from the last 12 months?

• 1:44:57Speaker 01

  Slowing down.

• 1:45:00Jay Shetty?

  Okay. Question number four, what do you believe most people misunderstand about activism?

• 1:45:06Speaker 01

  I think people believe that at least people in my position do it for points.

• 1:45:14Jay Shetty?

  Right.

• 1:45:14Speaker 01

  They don't realize we do it at our own risk for love.

• 1:45:20Jay Shetty?

  That's great. I love that. Question of fifth and final one, you're, you're amazing at this, by the way. These are like so concise and precise. Someone's good at Twitter. It's good. The fifth and final question, if you could create a law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be?

• 1:45:36Speaker 01

  I would love to ban lies online or in print. I don't think fake news should be allowed. I don't think manipulating people for corporate profit, lying to people about their health, about the cleanliness of their water or the safety of their food. I don't think that should be allowed.

• 1:45:55Jay Shetty?

  That's a great answer. That is a really great.

• 1:45:57Speaker 01

  That's my law.

• 1:45:59Jay Shetty?

  That is your final.

• 1:45:59Speaker 01

  Audit the government. Pass the law.

• 1:46:02Jay Shetty?

  That's the second one. I love it. Thank you, Sophia. That was amazing. That was incredible. I'm so impressed. You're like, yeah, that was such great answers, such a short period of time. And you completely crushed it. So, thank you so much. But thank you, Sophia, for coming on today. I'm so grateful to have you on On Purpose. I feel like we have to do a part two as well. There's so much more we could talk about. But anyone who's watching or listening today, please, please, please go and follow Sophia on Instagram if you don't already, on Twitter. Go and listen to Work in Progress. Such an important podcast, such a powerful podcast, incredible guests. Please, please, please go and listen and go and subscribe to the podcast as well and get involved in the activism that you are passionate about, that Sophia is involved in.

• 1:46:46Jay Shetty?

  Get involved through her programs, anything that she's up to. She's always sharing it online. So, if anything she's said has really resonated with you or anything that really connects with you, then please, please, please go and follow up on it. Don't just stand by and wait. Go and get involved and become an activist as well in your own right, in your own space, in your own way. So, Sophia, any final messages for us? Anywhere you'd like anyone to find out more about you?

• 1:47:12Speaker 01

  Um, gosh, I mean, yeah. Online, the podcast, that's all great. I should hope that everyone who's listening to us has read your book. That feels important.

• 1:47:22Jay Shetty?

  It's not out yet, so.

• 1:47:23Speaker 01

  Well, will it be out by the time this comes out?

• 1:47:25Jay Shetty?

  I don't think so.

• 1:47:26Speaker 01

  Okay, so then I hope that everyone who's listening to this has pre-ordered your book. Hello, it's very important.

• 1:47:32Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, my book's got a lot of what we're talking about right now, of just helping people really. You know, it's called think like a monk and that's because, I mean monks first of all have the happiest brains data-driven wise on the planet. So cool. And I just really want more people to have their own peace and stillness and purpose. Yeah. So that they can affect greater change in the world. That's really what a monk's mind is, is that if we can create a beautiful place to live here, then we can create a beautiful place to live here. And so I'm approaching my activism from that point of view because that's what I can offer and that's what I'm fascinated by and I'm really grateful for all the work you're doing because together that's when we're strongest, you know, outside in and inside out. We need, we need both. Hmm. We need both.

• 1:48:17Jay Shetty?

  Hmm. Thank you so much. I like that, outside in and inside out. Yeah, we need both. Yeah. We need both. Thank you. Put it on a bumper sticker. Thank you so much for coming on Purpose. Thank you everyone for listening. There were so many insights. I said to Sophia, we were going to talk for 45 minutes to an hour. We've spoken for over an hour and a half. What is the exact time? About an hour and 50 minutes. Hour 50 minutes, just for you. I hope this has been a powerful episode. Make sure you Instagram, tweet, Facebook, LinkedIn, all of your top quotes, thoughts, ideas from Sophia, anything that stood out to you. I love seeing them because it helps me learn what's really connecting with you. Please tag me and Sophia in on Instagram so that we can interact and engage with each and every one of you and I can't wait to see you again next week. Thank you everyone for listening.

• 1:49:11Speaker 02

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid and risked 350,000 Virginians healthcare to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the House Majority PAC dot com, not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 1:49:41Speaker 03

  Mr. President, my company tore me of the explosion on our rig. On October 2nd. Causing massive water displacement and triggering a tsunami.

• 1:49:48Jay Shetty?

  They all heap the blame on me.

• 1:49:50Speaker 03

  Tom Cruise is. Digger got us into this mess and Digger's gonna dig us up. From the director of Birdman and the Revenant.

• 1:49:57Speaker 04

  What would happen if I stopped drilling? You're stalled, you're freezing there, that's what.

• 1:50:01Speaker 03

  With great power comes great deniability.

• 1:50:04Speaker 04

  I'm not the first daddy.

• 1:50:06Speaker 03

  Digger. See the trailer online. Only in theaters October 2nd. Rated R. Under 17. Not a middle without parent.