Pod Insights Dan Snow's History Hit A history of (American) occupation in Greenland About this episode This isn't the first or even second time the U. S has made moves to procure Greenland in the last 160 years. President Donald Trump has stepped up his rhetoric, now saying that the use of US military is ‘always an option’ to annexe the autonomous territory. Currently part of the Kingdom of Denmark, an American takeover of Greenland would pose a serious crisis for NATO. But how much authority does Denmark have to protect Greenland? Why does Trump want it, and why are there already American troops already stationed there?
In this episode, first released in January 2025, Dan and Professor Robert Rix from the University of Copenhagen trace the occupation of Greenland from the first Vikings to the arrival of the Americans in the mid-20th century, as well as explain its relationship with Denmark and explore previous attempts from American administrations to acquire it.
You can discover more about the history of Greenland in Robert's book 'The Vanished Settlers of Greenland: In Search of a Legend and Its Legacy'.
Produced by James Hickmann, Mariana Des Forges and edited by Dougal Patmore.
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1:28 Dan Snow? Hi everyone, welcome to Dan Snow's History Hit. A Republican president has his eyes on Greenland. He assumed that with Alaska secured, if Greenland was brought in, well, then Canada would be surrounded and bow to the inevitable and join the United States of America. And yes, folks, you guessed it, I'm talking about 1868. Donald Trump is not the first US policymaker to fix his eyes on Greenland. The US tried again in 1910. In 1930, the Danish Prime Minister had to announce publicly that Greenland was not for sale. It didn't stop the Americans, though. In 1946, they made an offer to buy it again. Greenland matters. It's important for its geography.
2:13 Dan Snow? It's a gigantic island with an absolutely tiny population. It's part of the North American continent geographically. And it reaches far into the Arctic Circle. So now, thanks to global warming, the waters around the coast of Greenland are increasingly ice-free and able to be exploited. Resource extraction and shipping are becoming ever easier. And as we know, the gaze of many northern hemisphere nations have been drawn to the Arctic. It's a new zone of opportunity, a new zone of conflict. But as you'll hear in this podcast, many of these modern currents, they're not so modern, they're not new. There are important echoes here. I was lucky enough to talk to Professor Robert William Ricks. He's at the University of Copenhagen. He's written
2:57 Dan Snow? a brilliant book, The Vanished Settlers of Greenland: In Search of a Legend and Its Legacy. And he's going to explain to me how one of the smallest nations in Europe, Denmark, ended up ruling one of the world's largest islands on a completely different continent. We're going to go all the way back to the original settlement by Inuit people. We're going to talk about its discovery by the Norse. Hopefully, there'll be those of you listening to this who are enjoying my latest series on our History Hit TV channel when I visit Iceland and talk about the settlement there and indeed, the settlement of Greenland as well. So this part of the story might be familiar to you. The settlement of Greenland was the start of a connection with Norway, which, as you're about to hear, morphed into
3:36 Dan Snow? a link with Denmark, which is why today President Trump is addressing his remarks about Greenland to Denmark, and why the Danes have responded robustly, and they've changed their royal family's coat of arms to more prominently feature Greenland. They've got a polar bear on that coat of arms now, which is Danish for "bring it on". Now, I first released this interview in 2025. Obviously, Greenland is back in the news now. It's a pretty turbulent time in the western hemisphere, so I thought it'd be good to re-release this podcast, re-release this conversation. And I guess the big lesson I took from it is that Wrangles over Greenland are absolutely nothing new. But I also learned perhaps that Donald Trump might be addressing his remarks to the wrong audience. The question is, who
4:19 Dan Snow? does decide the fate of Greenland? Listen to find out.
4:43 Dan Snow? Robert, thank you so much for coming on this bizarre podcast.
4:47 Speaker 02 Well, thank you for having me, Dan. I mean, it's an honour to be here.
4:50 Dan Snow? Let's go all the way back. Let's go all the way back. When did humans first set foot on Greenland? Any humans, no matter where they're from?
4:57 Speaker 02 First time human foot was set on Greenland is some 4,500 years ago. So these would be paleo-Arctic people who entered from what is now Canada into Greenland. So they were there on and off, and there was a number of people that we know about, the Dorset, the Tule people, and some of them would be ancestors of what's now the Inuit, indigenous population there.
5:26 Dan Snow? Are they always on the move? Are they putting down roots? In what sort of ways are they living?
5:30 Speaker 02 Yeah, these were nomads. So they would travel, they would have hunting grounds, and they would move from place to place. So depending on whether it was summer or winter, they would go to different places in Greenland. They would be some places for an extended period of time, but then move on, depending on where they could hunt. So that would be the case.
5:50 Dan Snow? Robert, we should talk about that climate. It's pretty important in the Greenland story. It's a place where historically, humans have been only just able to survive, a place right on the margins. So I imagine that every change in our climate, every degree, every fraction of a degree warmer or cooler, it really makes its mark on attempts to survive, to thrive in Greenland.
6:13 Speaker 02 Absolutely. I mean, this is very much an integral part of Greenland history. Basically, the only inhabitable parts of Greenland are the coastal areas. So these are ecological pockets, and you can do a little bit of farming there, as the Norse people would do, and you could live there sort of rather comfortably. But climate, as you say, was extremely important because when we get to the Middle Ages and the first sort of Norse settlements in Greenland, they would come there because they could farm the land, they could have... And this was during the medieval warm period, so a warm period between 950 and 1250 approximately. So this would be a welcome climate at the time.
6:57 Speaker 02 And part of the reason why the Norse people left Greenland was also because it got increasingly colder in the 13th century.
7:04 Dan Snow? Right, well, let's get into that now. Let's get into the arrival of the first Europeans. What's your best guess about why and how people from Europe end up in Greenland?
7:13 Speaker 02 Well, at least according to the sagas, I mean, they are true. We know that the first person to really take an interest in Greenland was a very colourful character called Erik the Red. He was an Icelander and he was accused of murder, he got into other squabbles, and at one point he was banished from Iceland. And he saw about this place in Greenland, a place to settle as he was banished for three years, and thought this would be a place where I could establish a new colony. So part of the propaganda exercise, he sold this as the Greenland. And the sagas are quite clear about this, that this was to attract other settlers to come to Greenland.
7:54 Speaker 02 So this is in 986, this is the year in the sagas given for Erik the Red settling on Greenland. And this led to quite expansive settlement, Norse settlement from Iceland in Greenland.
8:10 Dan Snow? These are not officially sanctioned, this is not officially government-led colonisation. These are free booters heading across the ocean by themselves, are they?
8:18 Speaker 02 Absolutely, absolutely. So there's no official colony of that sort. So this only sort of comes later, because the Norwegian king takes an interest in Greenland. And at some point, and we know this to be 1261, King Horkon Horkenson establishes Greenland as some kind of protectorate. It's little unclear from the sources what this meant. But if we take the parallel of Iceland, we know that this was really guaranteeing shipping routes, which would obviously be important for trade. There may also have been some kind of protection. We know that, at least for Iceland, there was a number of English pirates
8:59 Speaker 02 who came there to fish in order to loot the coast of Iceland. And presumably something similar could have happened in Greenland, at least there are stories told about this. And in some of the records, we know that pirates did came to Greenland's coast and looted, and presumably also kidnapped people.
9:17 Dan Snow? You're not going to believe this, but here in Britain, we're raised on stories of Scandinavian pirates. We call them Vikings. Are you trying to tell me the Norwegians are raised on stories of English pirates ravaging the coastline, taking slaves and taking booty away?
9:31 Speaker 02 Well, at least we know in the early 15th century, there is a record of one of the leaders in Iceland was kidnapped and he was in an English prison. And he writes a letter to the English king at this time, arguing that really the English pirates had wreaked havoc in Iceland. And we also know that at least eight Icelandic children were traded as slaves in Norfolk in 1429. So maybe not raised on these stories, but we can find documentation that English pirates did come to Greenland. So yes, kind of reverse Vikings.
10:06 Dan Snow? So we got, as a result of Eric the Red, we have people originally who took their lineage back to Norway. They're now in this place, Greenland. It's not sort of government sanctioned initially. It's around the year 1000, so around 1,000 years ago, extraordinary. And how are they surviving? Are they bringing European methods of ways of life with them?
10:28 Speaker 02 They are fishing, they are hunting, certainly. There might have been a little bit of Eurocentrism there as well. That might have been something that accelerated their exit from Greenland as well, when it became a little colder, because farming was also part of their trade. And that may have been a little more difficult as the climate got increasingly colder. So yes, they had sort of Eurocentric ways. We also know a little bit about from archaeological digs, the fashion, they sported at the time, which was a European fashion. So they still kept in contact with mainland Europe throughout the colony's existence.
11:09 Dan Snow? Eventually, the Norwegians establish a kind of crown protectorate over the area.
11:15 Speaker 02 Yes, they do. And this becomes part of the story of the Danish possession of Greenland. Because what happens in 1397, which is known as the Kelmer Union, is that the Queen Margaret I of Denmark establishes some kind of countermove to the Hanseatic League. So these commercial and defensive network of merchant guilds and market towns in central and northern Europe. In order to counter that, she establishes a Nordic community. So basically, the kingdoms of Sweden, Denmark and Norway are united, and then under the Danish succession.
11:56 Speaker 02 So at that time, the overseas colonies, the Norwegian overseas colonies are transferred to Denmark. And that becomes really the origin story of why Denmark is now in possession, or why it's a part of Denmark today, because of that. The unification of Norway and Denmark continues, obviously, after the Kelmer Union becomes defunct. And until 1814, Norway and Denmark are seen as a united, they are a united kingdom, under the Danish crown. And when Denmark has to cede Norway to Sweden in 1814, following a defeat in the Napoleonic Wars, it's quite clear in the Kill Treaty at the time
12:41 Speaker 02 that the overseas colonies, Norway, Iceland included, will still belong to Denmark.
12:47 Dan Snow? Let's just finish off the story of those settlers, for whom I'm sure Norway and Denmark were both a long way away. Does the colony sort of ever, does it become lost? Is this a bit of a sort of faintly romantic or mythological idea about the end of this colony? What happens to those settlers in Greenland?
13:05 Speaker 02 The communication with the settlers in Greenland discontinues after 1410. The last record we have of the Greenland colony is a ship leaving in 1410, after a wedding in the eastern settlement. And after that, there are no records of any communication with Greenland. We simply don't know what is happening there. And it leads to all kinds of speculations. Um, one speculation is that they've all been killed because at this time, maybe it's important to emphasize that when the, when Eric the Red came to that southern part of Greenland, it was empty land. So it didn't take the land from anyone. Um, but over centuries, the ancestors of the Inuit moved down from Canada
13:47 Speaker 02 to reach at least first the hunting grounds in the north. Um, and then later to the settlements in the south. And we do have records of skirmishes between the two peoples. Um, so the most, there could have been some violence involved, uh, which have made life even more difficult in the, in Greenland, in the Greenland colonies. Um, pirates, uh, the climate, um, overfishing is also a possibility. After fourteen ten, uh, there would have been a, a colony there, but it probably would have discontinued around fourteen fifty, maybe a little later. Um, we don't know how it came to an end, but these are the bombastic visions, dystopian visions
14:28 Speaker 02 of the, all the Norse Greenlanders dying from the cold or, uh, from starvation. Probably that didn't happen that way. Um, this was a time when the plague was in Europe and lands would have become available in Norway and in Iceland. So presumably some of these Norse Greenlanders just thought, well, there's a better option for me back in, in Iceland. And they might have hitched a ride with their boats and, and went back to, um, to Iceland.
14:55 Dan Snow? Fascinating. So, so the European, uh, people of European descent disappear from the Greenland story in around fourteen fifty.
15:04 Speaker 02 Right about that time, yes, yeah.
15:06 Dan Snow? Which is so tantalizing because it's just a one or two, it's a generation before the Europeans will go back to the Americas. Uh, this time pursuing a very different route, a long way to the south, but extraordinary. So it's almost, uh, this, this brief gap where the Americas are European free. When do Europeans return to Greenland?
15:25 Speaker 02 So there's several, uh, attempts to reach Greenland. Um, but because of internal and domestic problems in Scandinavia, um, it doesn't actually really happen until the early, um, sixteen hundreds. So.
15:38 Speaker 02 King Christian IV launches three expeditions to Greenland. And this is basically to reclaim Greenland for Denmark. And it's still with this imagination that there are these rich colonies full of gold, full of resources. And resources must really be the headline here because as we move on, this will also be a theme or through line in much of what Greenland's significance for Europeans is resources. But this time, Christian IV is interested in finding the eastern settlements because of resources, because of trade.
16:19 Speaker 02 But that is to say presumably fishing would still have taken place in the intervening years. At least we know when Denmark establishes a colony in 1721, there are several boats already trading with the indigenous Greenlanders. So when the Danes come there, they realise that especially boats from the Netherlands have systematized trade along the coast. And that becomes a real problem and also a spur for the Danes to re-enter Greenland because they need to get a cheque on this trade, thinking that this is our land and we need to profit from it. So in 1721 is the re-colonisation of Greenland.
17:00 Dan Snow? These ships are coming back with their holds full of raw materials, are they?
17:04 Speaker 02 Not at this time, no. I mean, it's quite a disappointment, this fantasy alive, that just beyond the horizon there's gold, there's something to be found, there's this kind of the forests of Greenland described in the old texts will still be there, we just need to reach that eastern settlement.
17:23 Dan Snow? You're listening to Dan's Notes History, talking about Greenland. What's coming up?
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20:51 Dan Snow? Is there also a sense, like in the scramble for Africa later on, is there a scramble for the Americas going on? Is there a need by in-European capitals to just start planting flags? Even if initially there isn't a strong economic argument for doing so?
21:08 Speaker 02 Absolutely. So go back to Christian IV and his early 17th century expeditions. I mean, this was really brought on by the fact that Martin Frobisher, the English explorer, had reached what is now Canada and brought back what initially was thought to be very precious metal, but turned out just to be completely valueless, or that had no gold content. In it. Um. So it's it is a competition at this time. It continues to be so. Um. And certainly the Netherlands, also Britain, would the buy for possession of Greenland, especially Greenland waters and whaling, it becomes increasingly important.
21:49 Speaker 02 Um. And we must think of the Greenland waters as some kind of almost the parallel of the modern day oil fields. Because whale blubber is such a a a commodity that it is something that you really you you do anything to gain sort of access to these waters because whale blubber is used for for lamps, for oiling machinery. Um. So it becomes an industry at this time to to find whale blubber. And this is also what you trade with the with the indigenous Greenlanders. But whaling becomes so important at this time. Um. So yes, there is this European competition and everything the Danes do um is to curtail
22:30 Speaker 02 um any kind of other European involvement in in Greenland and Greenland waters.
22:35 Dan Snow? Norway is joined to Sweden, but Denmark keeps Greenland.
22:40 Speaker 02 That's right. That's right.
22:41 Dan Snow? In the in the nineteenth century, the Americans appear to have made an attempt to secure Greenland. Uh. Who'd have thought it? Tell me about that attempt.
22:50 Speaker 02 So we are eighteen sixty seven and there are numbers of very interesting parallels uh at this time because the US Secretary of State William H. Stewart, who had just negotiated the purchase of Alaska for um the US. He also has his eyes on um three Danish islands, um the the the West Indies. So that's Saint Thomas, Saint John and Saint Croix. And um that's been Danish colonies and been part of the triangular trade, um trading sugar and and slaves. But we're no longer profitable at this point. Um. So. There's this idea that the US could purchase these three islands from Denmark. And it is an exation frenzy.
23:34 Speaker 02 Both Greenland and Iceland entered the discussion as a kind of way to guilt the expansionist lily. And a report is produced at this time for the US government and also published. And this is gushing over resources. So there's fishing, there's coal, and there's a mineral called cryolite, which we can come back to, which becomes very important. But there's another thing that's sort of an echo of history here because we just look at the recent pronouncements by Donald Trump that it's not only Greenland, he also wants to make Canada as a 51st state of the US.
24:12 Speaker 02 And this is also a point here in the report because the report says that if Greenland could be bought for the US, it would induce what's called a peaceful and cheerful handing over of Canada, what's now Canada, to the US. Because it would be sandwiched between Alaska, Greenland, and the US. So this would surely make Canada a state of the US. So this is kind of probably misattributed to Mark Twain, where you say that history is rather fond of rhyming. But we certainly see a kind of, as Donald Trump in the same breath mentions Canada and Greenland, this is something that's been mentioned before.
24:54 Dan Snow? Does that come to anything?
24:55 Speaker 02 It doesn't come to anything because the purchase of the three West Indies or the West Indian Islands falls through. And at that point, it's seen as that Greenland would probably not happen either. So an offer is never really made.
25:11 Dan Snow? Through the rest of the 19th and early 20th century, what's the Greenland story?
25:19 Speaker 02 Well, there's a growing interest, American interest, throughout the century, the 20th century, early 20th century, an interest in Greenland. And to begin with, again, the theme is resources, but increasingly it becomes security. And that's also how Trump sort of couches this today, it's for security reasons. So we know that in 1910, at least, security takes center stage. There's at this time, a fear among the Americans that the Prussian expansion may lead to a takeover of Denmark. And that would also mean the takeover of the three West Indian Islands. And since this is very close to the Panama Canal, it's thought that it would be a good idea to buy the West Indies.
26:04 Speaker 02 Now, the calculus is that the Danes should be sweetened into selling the West Indies, so it doesn't fall into the hands of Germany. So there's this scheme, which is quite intricate, which is that Denmark should give over Greenland to the US. In return, Denmark should receive a southern group of the Philippines, or islands in the Philippines. Denmark should then surrender these islands to Germany, because Germany had an interest in becoming a leading power in that part of Asia. In return, Germany should give back Denmark, the northern part of Sleswig, which it had lost. So this is the idea, and after that, if the Americans could set this in motion,
26:45 Speaker 02 they thought that that would sweeten the Danes to then sell the West Indian Islands. Again, because that would mean that they could keep control of the Panama Canal. And they aren't sold at this time in 1910, but they are sold in 1917. And this is again a fear during the First World War, that this could be used for German submarines, so a submarine station could be constructed there. So yes, in January 1917, the Danish government sells this island to the United States for 25 million kroner. And there's an interesting thing here, because one of the conditions for selling the West Indies is that the US should acknowledge Denmark's right to Greenland. And US falls short of ever doing that.
27:27 Speaker 02 But this was really part of the original demands, but it's never affected, it's never manifest in what happened at the time.
27:36 Dan Snow? So that's so fascinating. So what we now know is that the US Virgin Islands were in fact Danish territory that was sold in 1917.
27:44 Speaker 02 They were sold in 1917, and... And Greenland, I think, is still very much on the agenda. We had a few records of this, and we know that rumors were still bandied about that US would potentially buy Greenland at some point. So 1930, the Danish Prime Minister, Torek Staling, comes out actually saying very publicly, Greenland is not for sale. So we have been down this road before. So it's a kind of continuing interest from America in buying Greenland for security reasons.
28:18 Dan Snow? You're listening to Dan's Noisy History, talking about Greenland. More coming up.
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29:54 Dan Snow? So you mentioned security, obviously very important, but also particularly in the 20th century, industrial exploitation of raw materials, looking for new centers of resource, increasingly being seen as an economic asset as well?
30:08 Speaker 02 Certainly in the 20th century, and I'll just briefly mention cryite, which is this rare mineral, which has been mined in Greenland and commercially mined until 1987. Cryite is used in the production of aluminium. And this becomes very important in the 20th century and certainly during the Second World War, because it's used for manufacturing of fighter planes, for instance. So there's a huge trade with the US. And after Denmark is invaded by Germany in 1940, it becomes very important to protect that production of cryite. And so what happens here is a super interesting story. There's the Danish ambassador to the US,
30:53 Speaker 02 a guy called Henrik Kaufman. He basically goes rogue because he strikes this deal with the US that the US could come in and protect the Danish colonies. This is obviously not what the Danish government wants at this time. They've been occupied by Germany, so they can't agree to this. So they basically accuse Kaufman of high treason. But he does establish this agreement with the US that, and US servicemen, they do travel to Greenland and protect especially the cryite mine, but also some of the stations there, the airports. The fix there is that they basically resign from service and they then sign up as volunteers to create this fiction
31:38 Speaker 02 that the US is not in fact invading Greenland. But they do protect the mine there, the production of cryite, which had not fallen into the hands of the Germans, obviously. They also use the air bases there. So Greenland will be a hub for refueling from at least 10,000 planes during World War II, landed in Greenland. There's also a place from where you could protect the ships going to Europe. So it becomes a very important place, Greenland. And one other little twist maybe is what's called the weather war. Basically, on the east coast, there were stations, weather stations, because being able to forecast the weather was extremely important for knowing when to launch a mission.
32:24 Speaker 02 It's also used for D-Day, obviously, just a few days where the climate was clement enough to to to launch that mission. But throughout the years of the war, there were Germans established weather stations, so the clandestine weather stations. Then the Danes or US established other weather stations so they could could forecast the weather, there's skirmishes there, they would shoot at each other. And that's known as the the weather war. So for many reasons, tactical reasons, Greenland was extremely important during the Second World War. And basically, given over as a as a few as protectorate during the time when the Danish government was hamstrung.
33:04 Dan Snow? So that's a hectic few years. So the Americans who are effectively running Greenland hand it back to Denmark at the end of the war. And the Danes like, thank you very much, now please leave. And the Americans are like, well, we don't know, we're not going to leave. And until Denmark enters NATO, that's that was a that's a curious position.
33:22 Speaker 02 It is a curious position. And there's this problem with the the US presence and the US at this time already realizes that that Greenland is extremely important.
33:34 Dan Snow? And do they offer to buy it again at the end of the war? Do they chuck in a chuck in a quick bid then, just in case?
33:39 Speaker 02 In 1946, the Secretary of State James F. Burns offers Denmark a hundred million dollars. This is under the Truman administration. They flirted with the idea of swapping Greenland for some of the Oirits land in Alaska. That never came through. And this has been kept as a secret, as it were, until recently.
34:01 Dan Snow? And, okay, so we've got Greenland then is becomes a really essential part of the West, NATO, NORAD. Anti ballistic missile posture, there's important bases there, there's monitoring stations there. I mean, it's fully integrated into North American defence at that point.
34:20 Speaker 02 It is indeed. And what you had in Greenland at the moment is what's the Beedruthic Space Base, which was formerly and perhaps better known as the Thule Air Base on the north-west coast, built in 1951. And that still serves, as you say, as an early warning stationed for ballistic missiles. It also tracks satellites, hence the name Space Base. And it also aims to track, and this becomes increasingly significant as the ice is melting in the Arctic, to monitor Chinese and Russian ships off the coast. So, yes, this base is very much part of the, part of American security. I think after Trump held this conference,
35:05 Speaker 02 Denmark has now stepped up its security investment in the Arctic. So then I want to increase the Arctic security. Because if Trump has a point, I mean, this part of the world becomes significant. And I think had he couched this in slightly different terms, I mean, he said that this is what America needs. America needs Greenland because we need to take care of American security interests. Had he said that this would be for the interest of the Wests or for liberal democracies, this would have been perfectly aligned with the Danish and Greenlandic interests.
35:35 Dan Snow? Meanwhile, what's going on with the relationship between Greenland and Denmark?
35:39 Speaker 02 Yeah, if we go back and to look at the constitutional arrangement, Greenland is a colony of Denmark until 1953, when Greenland is incorporated into the Danish state. So this is something that is maintained to this day. There's what's called the unity of the realm, of the Danish realm, really consists of three entities. So there's Denmark proper, the mainland Denmark, there's Greenland, and there's the Faroe Islands. And in 1953, basically Greenland becomes a province. But the unity of the realm, in 1979, Greenland
36:18 Speaker 02 grants its home rule, and that's expanded in 2009 to become self-rule. That means that Denmark, the Danish government, has very little, if any, say, in domestic issues in Greenland. So this is where Trump goes wrong, because he says that Denmark should sell Greenland. And that's simply not for Denmark to sell. Greenland is completely devolved. Greenland Parliament has 31 members. So selling Greenland would first entail a discussion between Greenland and Denmark about whether there should be independence. Then independence should be ratified by some kind of referendum. And then the Greenlanders should decide to sell themselves to America.
37:01 Speaker 02 So it's simply not for, the constitutional setup here is not for Denmark to sell Greenland. It's simply as impossible as it would be for Westminster to sell Scotland, without any involvement of Holyrood.
37:15 Dan Snow? Well, that's an interesting point. I guess it's the place to leave it, that the Danish position is that the people of Greenland are effectively sovereign. If they choose to pursue independence, for example, there's nothing constitutional to prevent Denmark from having that conversation.
37:30 Speaker 02 Absolutely. As of 2009, Greenland is given a way to achieve independence. Denmark also signed the Indigenous and Tribal Peoples' Convention in 1996, which acknowledges the Inuit as a people and therefore also the inherent right to self-determination. So it's basically in the agreement that if the Greenlanders want independence, they can have it. And I think this is the trajectory. I mean, this is what the Greenland people want. At least four out of five parties, political parties in Greenland, want independence. The problem is it will be a bit of a rocky road, simply because of the economy.
38:10 Speaker 02 So unless Greenland pivots the economy, perhaps with American investments in mining, it will be very difficult. The Greenland economy is propped up by Danish, what's called a block grant, to the tune of 5.7 billion Danish kroner, which is equivalent of 684 million pounds. So it's quite significant for a population of 56, 57,000 people. So it will be difficult to achieve independence straight away. But I think that is the long-term prospect for many Greenlanders.
38:47 Dan Snow? Thank you very much indeed for coming on the podcast and talking all about that. That's absolutely phenomenal. Tell everyone what your book is called, for which you've already been on the Gun Medieval Podcast.
38:56 Speaker 02 That's right, that's right. The book is called The Van Nuys Setters of Greenland in Search of a Legend and Its Legacy.
39:03 Dan Snow? Well, thank you very much, Robert Ricks, for coming on the podcast.
39:08 Dan Snow? Well, thank you very much for listening, folks. It does seem like Trump is trying to exploit the pro-independence sentiment in Greenland. It's a game that the US has played before. It reminds me a little bit of Texas in the 19th century. But for now, Denmark still controls Greenland's foreign and defence policy. And in response to Trump's heightened threats, the leaders of Denmark, France, Germany, Italy, Poland, the UK, they all released a joint statement on the 6th of January, saying, "It is for Denmark and Greenland, and them only, to decide on matters concerning Denmark and Greenland." But all this does overlook one very key fact here, and that is facts on the ground. There are quite a lot of US troops already in Greenland.
39:51 Dan Snow? And as Robert said, it would, in principle, be pretty easy, I think, for the US to pose a legitimately elected government in the Greenland capital of Nuk, and just take over, exploit Greenland's natural resources as it sees fit. And this really matters, not just in the North American context, but of course, for NATO. Imagine if we see the sending of additional European military forces to Nuk to support the existing structures, to reinforce air, sea and land defences there. That would be an extraordinary signal. The very country that NATO has relied on to provide a defensive umbrella for over 75 years would now be the one that Europe is protecting itself from.
40:35 Dan Snow? Absolutely extraordinary. Interestingly, we had a statement from Greenland's Prime Minister, Jens Fredrik Nielsen, and he has said, "Enough is enough. No more pressure, no more innuendo, no more fantasies about annexation." Well, watch this space, folks. We'll have to wait and see. Thanks so much for listening. I hope this gave you a bit of helpful backstory. Make sure to subscribe for more episodes like this that help you get the history behind the headlines over the coming weeks.
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