Maggie Sellers On $50M Lawsuits, Fake Birkins, And The Future Of Beauty (Ft. Katie Sellers)

In this episode of Hot Smart Rich, Maggie Sellers and Katie Sellers break down the five biggest stories shaping beauty, retail, and the startup lifestyle—$50M lawsuits, fake Birkins, rebrand flops, and the future of K-beauty. We get into: The truth about K-beauty medical tourism (and what went wrong for one woman who lost her vision) Why Olive Young might eat Sephora’s lunch—and what beauty from the inside out really looks like How Boy Smells lost the plot with their rebrand (and their core customer) How TikTok creators in China are exposing luxury markups—and what that means for the future of fashion houses and consumer trust What the Revolve lawsuit reveals about influencer marketing, taxes, and the fine print no one talks about 📌 Like what you hear? Rate + review the pod to support women who are redefining what it means to build power—through culture, capital, and consumer. Brands, Products & Things Mentioned in This Episode Olive Young Sephora Revolve Boy Smells 4AM Skin Phlur by Chriselle Lim Freja New York Polène DHGate Amore Vintage Tokyo CONNECT WITH MAGGIE: INSTAGRAM: ⁠⁠⁠@maggiesellers ⁠⁠⁠ TIKTOK: ⁠⁠⁠@maggiesellers_ ⁠⁠⁠ LINKEDIN: ⁠⁠⁠Maggie Sellers ⁠⁠⁠ CONNECT WITH KATIE: INSTAGRAM: ⁠⁠⁠⁠@katiesellers_ ⁠⁠⁠⁠ LINKEDIN: ⁠⁠⁠⁠Katie Sellers⁠⁠ ⁠ READ THE NEWSLETTER: ⁠⁠⁠HSR ICYMI ⁠⁠⁠ SHOP HSR: ⁠⁠⁠HSR MERCH⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠SHOP MY⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠AMAZON⁠⁠⁠ This episode is produced by HSR Media. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Maggie Sellers Reum?

  If you're starting a business, there are certain things that are so fun to think about. Y'all know I love a mood board, so everything that relates to the creative, the name, the brand, the website, the vision board. But then there are the things that make you pause and ask, am I even doing this correctly? Or do I even want to be doing this? Like forming your business, getting the right documents, keeping your personal information private. This is where our sponsor, Northwest Registered Agent, is so helpful. They're a one-stop shop for founders who want to launch and legitimize their business without turning it into a giant admin spiral. They help you form an LLC or a corporation, act as your registered agent, and give you tools like a business address, operating agreement, website, phone number, professional email, and free guides.

• 0:43Maggie Sellers Reum?

  They also have real corporate guides who know your local laws. Visit northwestregisteredagent.com/hsrfree and start using free resources to build something amazing. Get more with Northwest Registered Agent at northwestregisteredagent.com/hsrfree.

• 1:07Maggie Sellers Reum?

  In case you missed it, you're allowed to be hot, smart, and rich. So let's get into it.

• 1:16Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Angels, welcome back to another episode of Hot, Smart, Rich, the Podcast. Today, we are trying something new again. I feel like every single episode, I've said that. But I think that, like I've said before, is the best thing about starting something new is you get to like test stuff around. And I am here with Katie because we have gotten a lot of requests to go more in-depth and faster to market with our favorite consumer news stories and what is going on in consumer news, pop culture, and the emergence of brand, the creator economy, and venture capital, which is really the intersection that I have loved to sit in for the last few years.

• 1:57Maggie Sellers Reum?

  So we are recording this on Monday, and this episode will be released on a Wednesday. And you'll notice that I have a new background, and this is the first time I am Recording in my new house, which is amazing. Um, and then Katie, who is joining me is also recording at her house in Toronto. So we makeshifted these studios. I wish you guys could see a photo. Maybe we'll put it up on our Instagram stories. Uh, on the hot smart rich account when this episode comes out, just so you can see like the beginning of something because it is so not professional and it is so not

• 2:37Maggie Sellers Reum?

  put together. And I think that's like the beautiful thing about this is it's, it's truly like from the ground up. Um, and I'll be honest, like the podcast has gone super well since we started that we did get a lot of interest from different podcast networks, which has been amazing. We also, like we've told you guys have gotten signed to the Spotify creator program. Just so happens that as soon as we got signed, they decided to do construction on Spotify studios in downtown LA. Um, so they've been amazing at just like helping with figuring out different studio space across the city, but really for us, it was like, this is supposed to feel like a really amazing entry and super digestible

• 3:21Maggie Sellers Reum?

  and can be for anybody, no matter where they are in their career. So like, why wouldn't we want to just do it in the comfort of our own home? So it's more inviting. So here we are. Here we are. I'm, I'm very excited. Katie, how are you feeling? I'm feeling good. I'm trying to, you know, like keep my HSR energy up and my tone of voice up. Can I tell you, like, I literally started crying probably 20 minutes before we filmed this. I kind of figured.

• 3:51Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Currently, like, listen, I made this in my cam H ambassadorship video, which is like, these are all amazing things that are happening all at the same time and it is so overwhelming and like, I, it's hard because I want to feel like, I mean, I am so grateful for all these opportunities and all the things that are happening, but as somebody who gets overwhelmed, as somebody with anxiety, and I would argue somebody that probably doesn't have those things would still with all of these major life transitions feel like overwhelmed, right? Totally. And so I was, right now, my makeshift office is where the baby's room will be and there's still like Let's clarify, there's no baby right now. Yeah, there's no

• 4:36Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Maggie Sellers is pregnant. No, um, eventually, but I have, we bought the house furnished and so in the baby room, there's still like, not a crib, but like a three-year-old bed. There is a bunch of dressers. It's like a babied room and I put my makeshift desk in there. I have been trying to make it work. And then when I was like trying to film this morning, I was just like, oh my God, this is not going to work. And so I just pivoted and went to one of the other rooms. But like I said, grateful for everything that's happening and for this amazing house, but it's still in that phase of like, everything just feels chaotic, like a lot to do. Yeah. Well, today, like I said, we're going to be talking about kind of like our five major things that I was noticing about

• 5:17Maggie Sellers Reum?

  just major consumer behavior trends. But like you guys have been loving about the podcast so far, we talk a lot about money. We talk a lot about consumption. So I wanted to ask you, Katie, like I ask every guest, what is your latest consumption habit? So your largest last purchase? And then just your last purchase?

• 5:35Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, I was thinking about this because my last one was botox. And I actually had someone say to me over the weekend that I was talking to that they were like, oh, you're part of the botox crew now. And I was like, lol. I did buy a new iPhone recently. Like iPhones, like they know when you need a new one because the storage is full and then the phone just like crops out. That was my biggest purchase. And then my most recent purchase was, uh, I, the weather in Toronto was like wild and I had to randomly buy like sun hats for Warren for daycare.

• 6:06Maggie Sellers Reum?

  This purchase is the biggest hostess gift hack. So whenever you are hosting and somebody brings flowers, obviously it's lovely. Yeah. But it's also an inconvenience. Like I hate to say it, but you're just like, wait, I have to now go find a vase that fits this, cut the stems, put it in, like I'm hosting people right now. So I always love when I'm prepared to go over to someone's house. And we went over to my best friend, Terri's house last night with her husband and her baby. By the way, she cooked, she started her by herself. She has a baby. Her nanny was off. So I was like, I know she's going to be super busy. Yeah. And so I got this beautiful bouquet of flowers delivered. I ordered them on Thursday. They came literally. Nearly an hour before we got there.

• 6:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:47Maggie Sellers Reum?

  They were already on the table in a vase and I was like, oh my God. And she was so appreciative.

• 6:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:53Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Because she was like, you offered something to the experience, but without having to inconvenience me.

• 6:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:58Maggie Sellers Reum?

  And that is my biggest hack is like to make things easier for people. Um, so that was my li- last purchase. That was last night and it was remote, I guess.

• 7:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:08Maggie Sellers Reum?

  And then my last biggest purchase obviously was this K beauty experience that I did when I was in Korea and that was eighteen hundred dollars.

• 7:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:16Maggie Sellers Reum?

  And that was obviously a large chunk of money, but compared to what it would be in the States. It was, it's like over probably fifteen or twenty grand worth of treatments done for eighteen hundred dollars.

• 7:27Speaker 01

  I was gonna say it's like tw- twenty percent of the cost, like it's a fraction. Cause I was even thinking about when I went to the med spa for my stuff and I was like, this is, I should be going to Korea.

• 7:38Maggie Sellers Reum?

  I have a lot to say about K beauty and that was the big topic of our newsletter and I do not think that this is a trend at all. I think this is a category that is going to become mainstream, but it's really interesting because I posted this video about going to the Korean med spas and the amazing experience that I had. And at the same time, a woman, this influencer or not, she's not even influencer. She's actually a ceramic from San Francisco, a ceramicist from San Francisco. Her name is Esther. She actually lost the vision in her left eye after a Juvalook treatment when she was in South Korea. The videos that we posted were on the same day.

• 8:17Speaker 01

  Oh, wow.

• 8:17Maggie Sellers Reum?

  And I think like one, I just wanna say to her, like, I am so sorry that this happened to you. That is traumatic. And I watched the full video. She unfortunately, while she was getting the treatment done, she actually said to the doctors, she said, I can't see out of my left eye.

• 8:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:40Maggie Sellers Reum?

  From watching her video, there is something called a two hour golden hour treatment, which if something Happens like this, you have a very short window after it to hopefully find a reverse. Or some sort of thing that you can do to fix what's happened to you. And the doctors just reassured her that everything was fine.

• 8:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:59Maggie Sellers Reum?

  And so, obviously, like, I went to a Korean med spa and had the complete opposite experience.

• 9:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:06Maggie Sellers Reum?

  And my experience felt extremely different than that. I feel like my vision had gone. I would not be waiting and not going to the hospital. I'm not putting any blame on her.

• 9:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:19Maggie Sellers Reum?

  By any means, I'm actually putting blame on the provider that did this, where like that's on them. That they didn't take extraordinary precautions after a patient has alerted to them that something is seriously wrong.

• 9:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:33Maggie Sellers Reum?

  And that, I think, can happen no matter where you are in the world, right? And I think that's, it was a really good reminder to me that it's like, I'm not not gonna go back to Korea to do medical treatments. Cause I didn't have that experience. But I think it was a good reminder, and I am a little bit of a hypochondriac where it's like, always having a plan B, like thought through plan of like, what are you going to do? Yes, you don't think it's gonna happen to you, and then it does happen to somebody like you or somebody that you know. So, it was a really interesting parallel, and I started seeing a bunch of comments on my video of like, oh my god, I'm seeing this at the same time. I'm seeing a girl lose her vision, and I think it is a good reminder where it's like, it can happen anywhere.

• 10:15Maggie Sellers Reum?

  And it really is around like, making sure that you are the shepherd of your body. And if you feel like something is wrong, like, it is wrong. Really interesting thing about my experience, and I mentioned this a little bit in my TikTok video, was the standard of beauty is so different in Asia than it is in the US. So in the US, we have glamorized this look where it's like, pointy features and a really strict jawline and like a snoop, a slope nose. And it was really interesting because in Korea and in Asian cultures, actually eighty percent of the foreign floor was Chinese visitors. They all want the complete opposite look. They want round features, a round face, not a defined jaw, like, at least that's what was told to me.

• 10:58Maggie Sellers Reum?

  And so it was very interesting going to another country to get treatments done where like, I have a certain standard of. Beauty that I'm looking for, they think of something completely different from a standard of beauty. And so it was very interesting. It actually made me appreciate what I look like more authentically than like what I was trying to be other than like myself necessarily.

• 11:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:20Maggie Sellers Reum?

  I also experienced that, like when I was traveling to India for work, when I was working with EY and different standards of beauty in different places is really eye opening. It's really interesting. And I think that's what's the coolest thing about traveling so much is you learn so much. So even like the business, way that people do business is so much more formal in Korea. We didn't do as much business in Japan, or at least I didn't. But when I was in Korea, we did meet with a lot of founders, a lot of factories and the largest retailer in Korea. And it was so interesting, like no matter your title or your role, every single person, when they start the meeting, like presents you their business card.

• 11:57Maggie Sellers Reum?

  It's like a very formal experience where it's like almost this huge presentation for them of like their pride and joy is in this card. And I mean, obviously I don't carry around business cards. So like I already felt like, oh no, like I don't have something to present back. So that was like one major learning.

• 12:15Speaker 01

  You feel weird in the meeting being like, oh God, I don't have something to give them?

• 12:19Maggie Sellers Reum?

  I know. I brought them all like HSR lip gloss. So I did have something because I knew I was doing these meetings. So, I mean, then that was like a topic of conversation to launch to, but even like the words hot, smart, rich were definitely more polarizing over there than it was here. And so explaining to the executives behind Olive Young, what being a hot, smart, rich founder is, like their faces at first were like pure shock.

• 12:46Maggie Sellers Reum?

  And so I think that was a really interesting tidbit that I also learned. But so the culture between Americans and Koreans is night and day. Even down to the experience that you'll have when you're at Sephora or Olive Young. So for those of you who don't know what Olive Young is, it is the largest beauty retailer in Korea. They have almost 1,400 stores in an island that's like tiny compared to the US. Just to put into perspective, Sephora has about that many stores. I think they have like 1,700. It's the entire US. There is basically an Olive Young on every single corner. And I said this to my community, like if you are not paying attention to Olive Young and you are a beauty brand,

• 13:26Maggie Sellers Reum?

  You are in trouble because they are about to launch in LA this year and they have goals to open two more stores very quickly. If it goes as well as it does in Korea, like they will quickly grow to, I think, become one of the largest beauty retailers here. And I think, like I've said always, timing is everything. And the time is ripe for women to want something like Olive Young versus Sephora. And so let me break that down for you. When you walk into Olive Young, it is a love letter to women. It is telling women, beauty is from the inside out. Beauty is holistic. Beauty is what you put on your body. It's what you put in your body.

• 14:07Maggie Sellers Reum?

  It's how you carry yourself. It's how you nourish yourself. It's how you celebrate yourself. And I think American women wouldn't have been ready for that yet because like Western medicine, we have always treated symptoms, not the root cause. Where in Eastern medicine, it is always about the root. And for someone that like me has struggled with acne for years, when I was doing treatments and creams and lotions and potions, nothing worked. And I was always that patient to my dermatologist that was like, I don't want to go on spirulactin. I went on Accutane once and guess what? It didn't work because it was treating the symptoms, not the problem.

• 14:49Maggie Sellers Reum?

  And it wasn't until I actually started seeing an Eastern medicine practitioner, did a whole supplement protocol, lowered my cortisol, started trying to get better sleep, eating before having coffee, little things like that, did my skin go from being a disaster to being like something that people ask me about all the time. And it's very interesting because most VMS or supplements have failed at Sephora. And it's interesting to think about why, because when you walk into Olive Young, yes, the first floor is like mostly the skincare and the beauty that like works really well, but the entire- Upstairs floor at the store that I went to was like an entire massive section for food and beverage,

• 15:31Maggie Sellers Reum?

  an entire massive section for supplements, laundry, toothbrushes, toothpaste, sleep aids, like bras, thongs, um, like anything that revolves around taking care of yourself. That was what was stocked there. It just made me think about all of the brands that have been Sephora exclusives. If that doesn't allow them to be in Olive Young, because not that I'm saying that right away Olive Young will take over Sephora. But I think that over time they will have problems because people are, even with the tariffs right now, people are buying K beauty by like the boatload because they're like, oh my God, I would need to get my K beauty supplements and treatments

• 16:11Maggie Sellers Reum?

  and products before like the tariffs come in. There is demand for it here. So if the demand is here and they are just like so ahead of the game. So we met with the, the two executives behind the US expansion. And it's really cool because now I'm putting a list together of brands that they should be considering for emerging brands. And across every single category, which is so fucking cool to be able to do. They gave us the present, the executive summary presentation. It is a pub, is a privately held company. Um, but we were able to understand basically the entire business. And even just the trends that they've identified before they come to market. So like in 2020, it was like vegan was everything, like vegan skincare or 2022, it was like women health.

• 16:55Maggie Sellers Reum?

  So 2022 is when Olive Young started introducing all of these other categories into the business. And then their kind of vision for 2025, 2026 is like beauty from the inside out is literally their focus. Just so on trend with everything that I've talked about over the last little while.

• 17:14Speaker 01

  They're late years ahead of, oh, you, it's this love letter to women. And really it's the holistic view. And as a consumer, I would love to be able to go to a one stop shop where I can grab underwear, laundry detergent and like a cool, interesting face cream.

• 17:27Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Okay. Well, that was actually going to be one of my questions to you because when I was talking to Courtney about it, he was like, I actually don't know if like women want that in the States. And this goes back to like, there is one formula for successful businesses throughout history. It is the decoupling and coupling. Of functions and features into platforms or into standalone things. And you can either be exceptional at one thing and do it incredibly well. And people come to you because they're like, they are exceptional at skincare and makeup. Or it's like you then become the one stop shop for people that are like time poor. And you're looking for something where maybe it's not exceptional at every single thing,

• 18:12Maggie Sellers Reum?

  but they have almost everything that you're looking for. So my question to you was actually going to be, do you think that the American consumer, the woman consumer wants that approach now? Or are they still looking for like the expert that just has one of everything that's the best?

• 18:28Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, I'm in a different phase of life of being a mom. And so I'm even thinking about my online purchasing habits. If I can buy everything from one place, from one online order, which is sometimes why the default is Amazon, it's like because you can get everything. Then I'm only tracking one order, it shows up all at the same time. And I don't want to be buying at a million different places. Like I find that really annoying.

• 18:54Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Yeah, I was gonna say like, I think that there, if they were going into like medical treatments or like things like that, I would just start to distrust the experience. It's like, what are you the expert in? But for me, because I know that their promise is like, I mean, I came up with this thing, like Love Littered Women, I actually don't know what their mission statement is. Um, I feel like they've stayed somewhat with like a mission in mind and they've gone wide enough without going too wide.

• 19:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:21Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Um, but I have heard rumblings that, and we obviously have a portfolio company that we haven't even announced yet, that just got a PO with Ulta as a supplement VMS company. Um, but it's interesting because I feel like Sephora, I mean, last week in the newsletter, I put in about 4am skin and the rebrand that Sephora wanted them to do. And I actually loved the transparency that Jay talked about, although I didn't necessarily agree with the guidelines that they wanted. 4AM skin to go down, but I hope that if 4AM skin is watching this, they are just like looking at what happened with Boy Smells.

• 19:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:59Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Because that was something where from, this is all speculative. Like I have not talked to Boy Smells. I don't have a relationship with Sephora directly. Um, but from what I have researched online, this was a push of a rebrand that Sephora wanted them to do to be able to go into store. And it has backlash. What do you think about the Boy Smells rebrand or should I say re bland?

• 20:25Speaker 02

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• 20:58Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Love that. Uh, so I like went kind of deep into this this morning because I'm three hours ahead of you. So I was like, oh, I want to look into this.

• 21:06Speaker 01

  Because transparently, like I hadn't even really heard of the brand Boy Smells because obviously I'm not. I don't think I'm the demographic, obviously, right? Because it was started as an LGBTQ sort of like male driven brand. That's what my perception was from what I looked at online. I could see a very distinct change and I totally agree with the backlash of like it went from being this really authentic, interesting looking brand to just the cookie cutter brand that is exactly what Sephora wants on their shelf with.

• 21:43Maggie Sellers Reum?

  No real personality.

• 21:45Speaker 01

  What do you think about the Boy Smells rebrand or re bland?

• 21:49Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Overall, so disappointing. So I loved Boy Smells because of this intersection of masculinity meets femininity, even down to like the colors that they picked, black and pink, which traditionally I don't really like going together, but it just worked for them.

• 22:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:06Maggie Sellers Reum?

  I also, as a millennial, loved the like simplicity branding meets these over the top accentuated features. So like the top of their perfume and fragrance bottles were so like avant garde and just like decorative and just over the top that I found it matched really well with this and it balanced out the simplicity of the branding. Um, and so obviously now they have totally, one, reformulated their products, which is I think the bigger concern for people. I don't know if you've read the copy of the website, but like they went from taking these like beautifully written, almost like serenaded poems into like this

• 22:47Maggie Sellers Reum?

  clickbaity, Gen Z, not relatable, like saying like, I want to smell like your situationship. Like, sir, I do not want to sell, smell like my situationship. I want to smell like I'm in love or I'm empowered by being single or whatever it is. And so that, the, not only like the reformulating, but like the way that they're now talking to the customer, they've lowered their prices and the actual packaging looks like every other brand out there. Like, look at the similarities between Rare Beauty's blushes with that like circular top and then now like the Boy Smells fragrance bottle. And it's just like lost its sense of identity and individuality. I feel for you, Boy Smells leadership team, because I

• 23:30Maggie Sellers Reum?

  too fell victim to wanting to be like Gen Z-ified and like when Gen Z brands were everything, like Starface and um, like plus at all these ones that were going into Target, I was like, oh, maybe that's what I should also turn our branding into. It was like this loud, uh, exciting pop of color. And at the end of Day like that was a disservice to my millennial self because I love glossy pink and millennial pink and I love like this balance of elegance meets like boldness and I feel like that's what Boy Smells already had. But the reason I really feel for Boy Smells is because you can tell that they are trying to find a new consumer.

• 24:12Maggie Sellers Reum?

  And that signals one thing to me, which is like the brand wasn't doing that well. But to see the reformulations, the new price point, the new retail distribution and the new copy on their website. It's like every single thing about this brand has changed. And I think it's actually going to be, it's going to be interesting to see what happens because unless they're able to identify a completely new consumer base at Sephora and grow that like they will have lost. And from what I've seen, they have lost their original consumer base. Because people like don't feel it's original anymore. They feel like they've turned their back on their original brand identity. And now they're like, okay, you've sold your soul to be in Sephora and now we are no longer going to support you.

• 24:54Speaker 01

  That is honestly Maggie, exactly what I thought when I was reading through everything. I was like, to me, as an executive in business, this is just a business that was not performing well. Like, and that is the unfortunate reality about a brand that has such big authenticity. It's really cool. It has, you know, a niche with the consumer. Sometimes that just doesn't translate to the engaged mass audience that you need to grow and scale a profitable business and.

• 25:24Maggie Sellers Reum?

  But then like, why does it like, why does Sephora even place a PO if it's not even doing well?

• 25:29Speaker 01

  The other things I uncovered in my investigative journalism, there was something else in the Beauty Independent article. That was a very similar story, which is the brand Plur. And I think that's how you pronounce it, but the.

• 25:43Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Like Christine Lim's brand?

• 25:44Speaker 01

  The Chriselle Lim brand, Plur, that's the, started as the fragrance brand. I thought she founded that brand. She didn't. She bought that brand from someone else and scaled it into the brand that it is today with Sephora. And if you go back and look at the packaging of Plur before. Or she bought it and changed it into the like millennialized fragrance brand that it is today. There's a lot of same anecdotes with people being like, oh, the formulations aren't as good and blah, blah, blah, blah, whatever it is. And I just think it's really interesting that there's now this other perfume fragrance brand. That's, I think Sephora is trying to do, this goes back to why you're saying, why is Sephora doing it?

• 26:28Speaker 01

  I think it's because they were able to do something successful with Plurin, Criselle Lim. And they're trying to put that exact same formula into Boy Smells and obviously the reaction has been very poor.

• 26:41Maggie Sellers Reum?

  I think that this goes back to why people buy brands. And if I was starting a new brand today, there's really two things that you think about it. And it's like, people buy brands for functional needs and for emotional needs. And I think that Boy Smells had an extremely like tied emotional relationship to their consumer. And they've lost that. And so like, now that they're looking for like, what are the other kind of like Gen Z brands that I can buy from that fit that emotional need? Where I feel like included and secure. And there's this like signal to people that you're wearing a certain brand or you're a part of a certain community. And so it's been really interesting to watch everything go on between like China and luxury brand houses. When I was in South Korea, there's this amazing part of town that's like all these fakes, right? And it's like almost you, you could never tell.

• 27:27Maggie Sellers Reum?

  I had just became an Hermès Kelly owner. And it was very interesting because whenever I've gone into Hermès stores worldwide, they just like at the front door, like, we don't have any appointments for you today. We have no bags. And every time I went in Japan, they'd be like, oh yeah, we have bags, come back. And I'm like, oh my God, I'm gonna get my Kelly, thank God. And they offer me like a bag that it's like, I would just never wear it. So I always just like left. But I was like, okay, I feel the luck starting to happen. Like I'm getting offered bags at least. But then we go and we find this vintage, this iconic vintage store called Amore. It's in this part of Japan. That's where like all the vintage stores are. So the bag that I got was from 1996. It is stunning. And so when we went to South Korea and somebody was like, do you want to go to the fakes part of town?

• 28:13Maggie Sellers Reum?

  I was like, no, because to my email, I think there are so many amazing handbags now that serve a functional need and an emotional need, by the way, and aren't trying to be something that they're not. And I look at every, like, every single TikTok video, the live that I'm being fed is like Chinese manufacturers on DH, DHgate, selling bags that are like an Hermès Kelly, but like without any branding. And to me, it's like, why do I need to walk around with that? If there's so many other amazing bags that are like in the three or $400 range that I can wear and proudly be a part of that community?

• 28:55Maggie Sellers Reum?

  So it's just interesting that like, obviously, the way that I think is completely different than a lot of people because DHgate is the number two app in the App Store as of last week. So people are buying bags off of there. And I do think that this will hurt the luxury brand houses. I really do. Like, we just saw that LVMH has lost, well, last week for a period of time, like Hermès finally passed LVMH in terms of market share. So I do think that with the economic climate and like, which is with everything going on, that we will see this affect the luxury brand houses. But on a personal side, I don't feel the need to have 60 handbags that are fake designer.

• 29:39Maggie Sellers Reum?

  I would rather have these, like, I just got that Freja New York bag. I love it and I think it's like $260 retail price. And I'm proud to walk around with that bag being like, this is the Freja from New York. Like, it's an it bag right now. And I don't think that I would want to change to have another white Hermès bag if it's not actually part of the Hermès community, if that makes sense.

• 30:04Speaker 01

  Totally. Like, as someone who was a teenager and wore bags like that, like, it doesn't make you feel good. You always know that it's fake and why are you trying to copy something without giving the credit to the actual house who's come up with the brand, the product, there's a history behind it? So I feel the same as you. Like, I just. Just, I would never go on DHgate now and buy a fake bag and carry around a fake Birkin or a Kelly or a Louis Vuitton bag for that matter. Like, I just don't see the purpose.

• 30:33Maggie Sellers Reum?

  There, like I said, if there were no options in that like 200 to 400 range of premium brands that like built a community and had beautiful stores, like there is a store, I think it's called like Polen, P O L E N E. And they have an experience in store where you feel like a luxury customer, but you're buying a premium brand. You're not buying a basic brand. Like, that to me is an experience where you're spending the same amount of money that you are on DHgate, yet like you're trading in an actual experience where you feel deserving as a customer to just feel like you're keeping up with who. Like, that's where I don't get it. And like, for me, it just feels like there's

• 31:15Maggie Sellers Reum?

  so much that's gonna come from this kind of awakening of China versus the luxury houses. But to your point, like, listen to the four hour episode on Acquired Podcast about the story of Hermes. And like, as somebody who does horseback ride and like loves culture and loves like things that have these stories to them, like, I love and respect the luxury fashion houses. As much as I respect the premium brands that have come up in the last few years and their stories that are gonna be told, and it's why my closet is mixed between the two.

• 31:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:47Maggie Sellers Reum?

  And I'm so big on that. It's like, listen, I'm like, almost 33 years old, and it's like, the first time I'm in a place where I'm like, able to afford a Hermes bag. And it's like, I have one from 1996.

• 31:59Speaker 01

  I mean, it's obviously right now really on social, but it'll be interesting to see when it crosses over into like, brands getting litigious over the copying and copyright infringement, which I think leads us into our final story about the Revolve $50 million lawsuit.

• 32:15Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Yes. Okay, I have a personal story for this with my experience with Revolve gifting, because I just got an email saying I was like, one of the top sellers on Revolve, you have $2,000 to spend in the store. And it was like, you have to tag it five times in your stories, which I already was really weary of because I don't like accepting product to be obligated to post if I don't even know if I'm gonna like the product yet. So that was already a red flag, but I was like, you know what? Let's go check out $2,000 is kind of a lot. So I'm looking at revolve stuff. I find probably two things I would have spent my own money on and then like, cause it was from certain collections. There was like seven collections I could choose from. And there was probably like a few things in there that I was like, oh, I probably wouldn't use my own money for this, but like if it's free and I can like like it, then maybe I'll take it.

• 33:00Maggie Sellers Reum?

  So when I'm checking out at the very end, it's like enter in your EIN information and your social security number. And then there was this huge disclaimer that said that, okay, if you're getting gifted product, you have to disclose it to not only the FTC, obviously. But then also the IRS. And I'm like, wait, what? So I go to chat GPT and I say, how much am I gonna have to pay if I live in California in taxes? With $2,000 worth of gifted clothes from revolve. The estimate was $600. So in my head, I'm like, I really only, only really, really, really want two of these pieces in this collection, which were independently both $200. So that's $400.

• 33:39Maggie Sellers Reum?

  So maybe this is my girl math, but I was just like, I don't feel right about ordering $2,000 worth of clothes. Paying $600 towards taxes and then really only wanting $400 worth of the clothes that they're allowing me to choose from. Like this doesn't make sense. Plus in their now disclosures, it's like you have to guarantee multiple times that you are going to put hashtag add or hashtag gifted where it's like. But this like, I'm not mandated to be posting. It's like, I don't, I never accept gifted product if I'm mandated to post it. Because I don't know if I'm gonna like it and I want my audience to trust what I am going to talk to them about.

• 34:20Maggie Sellers Reum?

  So I'm not just pushing things down their throat to get free product. Like that's not the way that my creator brain works. So it was really interesting is when I was talking to Courtney about it, I was like, can you believe this? He's like, yeah, well Maggie, that's why a lot of celebrities do not accept gift bags from the Oscars. So every year at the Oscars, this last year, there was like $217,000 worth of product. There was even like a liposuction gift card. It just doesn't make any sense. And a lot of celebrities turn down the Oscar baskets for the same reason. Not for what you'd think. So I did the same thing. I put it into ChatGPT. If I am a celebrity getting an Oscar basket, how much money am I paying towards taxes on a $217,000 gift bag?

• 35:03Maggie Sellers Reum?

  You're paying almost $80,000 worth of taxes on that gift bag of stuff that you probably won't even use nor want. So when I saw this lawsuit, like, good on this plaintiff for seeing an opportunity to make $50 million. Because if a man that was a delivery driver at Starbucks won $50 million for a hot drink being spilt on him in his own car. Like, this woman has a good shot at getting $50 million. But I think that her reasoning is a little bit unrealistic. Like, she said that she only bought product from these influencers because she didn't know that it was sponsored. And she would have bought them from other stores that didn't mark them up, like, the 20% to 40% more than Revolve does.

• 35:48Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Which I haven't seen that big of a price discrepancy regardless. But also, like, then we should be going after every brand that does this. Like, the Kardashian Jenners with Aloe Yoga, they post the same thing, Aloe Yoga and tag Aloe Yoga. It never says hashtag ad. And so I think what's gonna happen is, I actually think that they are going to make an example out of Revolve. I think that this will set precedent for case law of influencer marketing. To my knowledge, there hasn't been a huge FTC claim or like a huge like case law precedent set by influencer marketing and like the deception of that. So I fundamentally believe that this will become case law.

• 36:33Speaker 01

  I completely agree. And like, I've actually had experience in business being made an example of um, working at CoinSquare, which is now WonderFi, and it was like in the whole crypto space. So like, I have experience with a federal agency doing exactly this. And they prey on a business that, yes, sure, Revolve has quote unquote

• 36:56Speaker 01

  Unlimited resources to defend themselves. But what's really interesting about what this lawsuit does is that it names three individual influencers.

• 37:05Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Influencers.

• 37:06Speaker 01

  And the problem there for these influencers is going to be if they have never signed a contract with Revolve as an affiliated party to like provide brand marketing services or whatever. And they haven't had a lawyer look at it and they don't have an indemnification with Revolve. Which if you are a creator and you have a good lawyer, part of the contract review literally should be looking at a contract to say, okay, Maggie, you're working with Revolve. If you ever get sued because of your work and being affiliated with Revolve, Revolve has to be the one to pay for your legal fees and defend you. And so if these three influencers don't have an agreement with Revolve,

• 37:49Speaker 01

  they're going to have to pay for their own legal fees. They're going to have to defend themselves in court. And what the IRS is going to do is they are going to make an example out of these three women.

• 37:58Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Well, so did you see that in Revolve's um public disclosures because they're a publicly traded company? They actually listed this as a potential risk of the business. And to them, it's like, I think they cleared over a billion dollars last year. I don't know actually like what their full financial breakdown is, but for them, fifty million dollar lawsuit, like ah to their point, they kind of foresaw this happening. But to your point about the individual influencers, like I would think that if those are people that Revolve has worked with for a period of time and are top sellers for them and convert a lot, like they are going to lawyer them up regardless of their indemnification clause, but we just don't know until we see it.

• 38:36Speaker 01

  I I've seen businesses do some really shady shit and but I agree, like

• 38:42Maggie Sellers Reum?

  they need to think bigger picture. Like if they don't defend these influencers, every single influencer is going to be like, well, they're not going to defend me. I'm not going to be posting for them and doing all these things for free anymore. So I think there's a like, this may seem kind of basic on one side, but there There is actually a lot of repercussions for a business that 70% of their sales comes from influencer marketing because depending on which way this case goes, like how they react, how they help lawyer up their influencers, like what these clauses are, this will just set a precedent over what actually happens for influencer marketing brands moving forward.

• 39:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, like it will be precedent setting across the board and it'll be interesting to see if there are other brands beyond Revolve who come to the table to actually like either lobby against it or put their own two cents on it because it will completely change the face of influencer marketing, at least in the US.

• 39:37Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Last thing before we wrap up this because I have to go, I just finished Amy Griffin's book. And if you are a woman in business that has pushed yourself and is on or has been on the hustle grind and has dedicated their life to other people and in certain, you've always been in service of others, you need to read this book. She turns her absolute trauma, childhood trauma of abuse into a message for women about being enough and becoming whole with yourself. And I finished the book in three days. I sobbed my way through the entire book. And if there is one book you're going to put on your summer reading list, I hope it is Amy Griffin's book,

• 40:22Maggie Sellers Reum?

  The Tell. It will change your life. So with that, I want to wrap up this segment. Say thank you so much for listening to the episode. Give us all the feedback on this formula. Please, if you have not, rate and review the podcast. It helps so much. And I haven't been asking that much of you guys for that recently. And I've seen the ratings go up, which just makes me genuinely so happy. It's kind of like what my boyfriend told me about getting compliments. Like if you ask for them and you're seeking validation, it doesn't feel as good when it happens because you like don't really believe that it's naturally there. Whereas like when you see something organically happen and you didn't ask for it, it's like the biggest sense of satisfaction. So you guys have

• 41:04Maggie Sellers Reum?

  made me feel so good about seeing that go up. So please rate, review and subscribe. We love you and can't wait to see you guys next week.

• 41:23Maggie Sellers Reum?

  If you're starting a business, there are certain things that are so fun to think about. Y'all know I love a mood board, so everything that relates to the creative, the name, the brand, the website, the vision board. But then there are the things that make you pause and ask, "Am I even doing this correctly, or do I even want to be doing this?" Like forming your business, getting the right documents, keeping your personal information private. This is where our sponsor, Northwest Registered Agent, is so helpful. They're a one-stop shop for founders who want to launch and legitimize their business without turning it into a giant admin spiral. They help you form an LLC or a corporation, act as your registered agent, and give you tools like a business address, operating agreement, website, phone number, professional email, and free guides.

• 42:07Maggie Sellers Reum?

  They also have real corporate guides who know your local laws. Visit northwestregisteredagent.com/hsrfree and start using free resources to build something amazing. Get more with Northwest Registered Agent at northwestregisteredagent.com/hsrfree.