#2464 - Priyanka Chopra Jonas

Priyanka Chopra Jonas is an actor, producer, entrepreneur and former Miss World. She stars in the ongoing series “Citadel” and the film “The Bluff,” both streaming on Prime Video.www.amazon.com/gp/video/detail/B0G565KPS4www.imdb.com/name/nm1231899 Perplexity: Download the app or ask Perplexity anything at https://pplx.ai/rogan. Get a free welcome kit with your first subscription of AG1 at https://drinkag1.com/joerogan Now This is Taxes. Visit https://turbotax.intuit.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  The Joe Rogan Experience.

• 0:05Speaker 01

  Training by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.

• 0:12Speaker 02

  I won't lie, I am nervous to talk to you.

• 0:15Joe Rogan?

  Come on.

• 0:16Speaker 02

  Just like.

• 0:16Joe Rogan?

  How can you be nervous? That's ridiculous.

• 0:18Speaker 02

  Like, I came in slightly intimidated.

• 0:20Joe Rogan?

  Why?

• 0:22Speaker 02

  I actually don't know the answer to that, because we've never met.

• 0:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 0:25Speaker 02

  So it's not like you've intimidated me, but I just, I'm really, I think what I really enjoy about your show is just such an eclectic perspective on so many diverse things, and it comes like so naturally to you. I really admire that.

• 0:41Joe Rogan?

  Well, fortunately, I don't have anybody pick my guests, so it's all people that I'm actually interested in talking to, so it's easy.

• 0:48Speaker 02

  Oh, that's nice. Well, thank you for picking me.

• 0:51Joe Rogan?

  Oh, my pleasure. I'm excited to talk to you. Your movie is fucking crazy.

• 0:56Speaker 02

  It is.

• 0:56Joe Rogan?

  Like, I knew it was a pirate movie, but I just did not expect the ultra-violence. Like, from the beginning, I was like, yo! Like, I locked in immediately. I was like, first scene, I was like, holy shit! Like, this is crazy.

• 1:10Speaker 02

  Well, thank you.

• 1:11Joe Rogan?

  What was that like?

• 1:13Speaker 02

  That's a good thing, right?

• 1:14Joe Rogan?

  To film, I mean, is it, when you're doing something that's that hyper-violent, like, is that, does that freak you out at all? Like, you're cutting people open with swords and stabbing them in the neck, and it's like, holy shit!

• 1:27Speaker 02

  When you're doing it, you know it's like make-believe, so it's so much fun to be like, "Yeah, I'm playing pirates, and I'm gonna behead you!" But, I mean, in moments of, like, scenes and stuff where I actually had to think about what it must have been like to be a female at that time, or, because they existed, women, female pirates existed, and we just, we didn't hear many, much about stories about them. I mean, I heard about Grace O'Malley, maybe.

• 1:56Speaker 02

  There were Mary Reid, like a few famous ones.

• 1:58Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:59Speaker 02

  Ching Shi, after I did my research. But like, in those moments, you're like, this stuff must have, like, this was real. They lived at a time where it was survival of the fittest. It was barbaric.

• 2:13Speaker 02

  And I wonder what that must have been like. But besides that, the stunts and stuff, like, I really have so much admiration for the amount of precision it requires to pull that stuff off from so many people, not just the stunt department, but like, the cameras, because they're also moving in sync with you.

• 2:31Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:32Speaker 02

  And that's cool.

• 2:34Joe Rogan?

  It is cool. Is it hard to stay in the moment when all that is happening? Because you have so much coordination and so, there's, there's so much choreography. There's like, he's gonna swing this way and you're gonna block it and you're gonna dive down. It's like, it's so complex. Like, these are long, extended fight scenes.

• 2:54Speaker 02

  We had, like, a lot of oners, too. Like, fold the whole scene in one shot.

• 3:00Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 3:01Speaker 02

  Which Frankie, our director, really loved the idea of, and I honestly love it, because it, it brings you into that, that moment is so enriched with everything that you're supposed to feel between action and cut. So I do love a long oner. But, you know, I come from Bollywood movies, so we have a lot of choreography, choreography for like, dance sequences where stories are also moving forward, like, between, you know, your exchange of expression, or something's happening somewhere else, you come back. So I treat sort of fight sequences like dancing. It's, you learn the choreography, but that doesn't stop your face from telling the story.

• 3:40Joe Rogan?

  Right. That makes sense.

• 3:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and, I mean, it is kind, I mean, it's just choreography. Whether it's choreography with dance, or choreography with movements, with your hands and swords.

• 3:51Speaker 02

  I had never worked with blades before this movie, though. That was cool.

• 3:54Joe Rogan?

  How much training did you have to do? Like, when you found out that you were gonna take the role?

• 3:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 4:00Joe Rogan?

  How much preparation did you have to do physically to get ready for all that stuff?

• 4:04Speaker 02

  It was a cool year for me because I was filming three jobs which were all action and stunts. So this movie called Heads of State, which I did for Amazon again, and then Citadel and this movie. So it was a year of three action-packed jobs. So the, you know, being agile and being in it was already part of what I was doing because that's what I was filming every day. But the swords training was tough and to be ambidextrous with it as well. So I had my, my stunt coordinator who was doing all three movies with me, she in between shots, she and I would just take our rubber swords out and do like choreography and rehearsals. But like it took at least three or four months of just staying in it and getting loose with it.

• 4:48Speaker 02

  Also because Carl Urban, my co-actor, had, casual, learned how to do like sword fights in Lord of the Rings.

• 4:56Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 4:57Speaker 02

  So he was amazing at it. So I didn't, you know, in that last duel, I didn't want to be any less than. So I kind of went at it.

• 5:06Joe Rogan?

  No, you looked very good at it. It was really good.

• 5:09Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 5:09Joe Rogan?

  I was like, did you work with some sort of like a kendo specialist or some fencing specialist? Like, how did you learn how to move the sword correctly?

• 5:18Speaker 02

  It wasn't kendo for sure. It definitely wasn't fencing. It was uniquely, because the swords were, our director was very, very excited about the weapons in this movie and wanting to get it really right from the period, whether it was the guns that we used or the blades that we used. The machete was one of my favorite weapons in the movie because that's like her weapon in the movie because it's practical. Use it for coconuts, use it for skulls, same, same.

• 5:47Speaker 02

  And that was really fun. But our, our, you know, second unit director, Rob Alonso, had so much experience in, in the amount of work that he's done prior. He came in with a very specific idea of wanting to make the fighting style super unique and each set piece like a different design of choreography. So, you know, there was one which was in a dark cave. So the only time you saw people was when the gunshot went off. And just different styles of fighting, which I thought was really cool.

• 6:17Joe Rogan?

  So but did you have like a professional trainer that taught you how to do that?

• 6:21Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 6:21Joe Rogan?

  And so how would you do it? Would you do it with a real sword? Did you do it like?

• 6:25Speaker 02

  Well, we had three different kinds of swords. The real sword like weighs more than me. It was insane. I couldn't do it with a real sword as much. But for filming, and this is the magic of the movies, you know, you have four different weights of it. One is like the real sword where you need it for like, you know, where it's a close up or the sword is really, really visible. But when you're doing the big choreography, you have like a lighter sword, which is created by the props department. And then another lighter one. And when you need to flip it, it's the lightest one.

• 6:54Joe Rogan?

  Cause I was thinking.

• 6:55Speaker 02

  I'm telling you all my secrets.

• 6:57Joe Rogan?

  That's good. It's good to know.

• 6:59Speaker 02

  That sucks. Oh, no.

• 7:01Joe Rogan?

  No, listen.

• 7:02Speaker 02

  Here I was trying to impress you with my sword flipping.

• 7:04Joe Rogan?

  It's impressive, period.

• 7:06Speaker 02

  And talking about my fencing, but no, it was movie magic.

• 7:09Joe Rogan?

  One of the things that I always think when I was watching it is like, how many takes did you have to do with this? Cause that's gotta be so hard to do. Cause you're swinging this gigantic iron thing.

• 7:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 7:19Joe Rogan?

  And clashing into other ones. And like, if you have to do three or four takes of this, your arms are gonna be toast.

• 7:23Speaker 02

  Oh, we did like 10 hours of it every day for like seven days or something.

• 7:27Joe Rogan?

  Do you have shoulder problems after that?

• 7:29Speaker 02

  No, actually I didn't, but I was jacked. My arms never looked as good. Now, I mean, I have a four year old and I lift her a lot, so my arms are like, all right. But during this movie, oof, because we were just like at it.

• 7:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 7:43Speaker 02

  And we both, you know, threw ourselves at it, Carl and I. And it took, it was a big choreography on top of this bluff. We shot on 100% of this movie, at least 90% is definitely on practical sets, real sets. We did not wanna use a lot of VFX. So, you know, Phil Ivey, our production designer, we built the ships. We built the house. We built.

• 8:03Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 8:04Speaker 02

  Everything was a replica of what it would have looked like in the 1900s in the Cayman Islands. We went and saw it. It was amazing to be able to do that with real stuff, you know?

• 8:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Well, the, the whole history of piracy is so fascinating. And one of the things that the movie is about is this, the Carl Urban character is from, he was one of the soldiers of the East India Trading Company. Then I went on a deep dive on the East India Trading Company.

• 8:31Speaker 02

  You did.

• 8:32Joe Rogan?

  That is crazy. When you learn the history of that one corporation as one of the first publicly traded corporations.

• 8:42Joe Rogan?

  That essentially was in control of India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh, went to war with China over opium, and that's how they took over Hong Kong. You're like, holy shit. One crazy fucking corporation involved in the slave trade, the opium tra- just a corporation, publicly traded corporation. People could buy stock in it, like one of the first ones. And it just went haywire, to the point where it got so big, there was a revolt and then the British government took over it and nationalized it, but it's, the whole story is insane. This episode is brought to you by the Apple Sports app. Guys, this is the ultimate best

• 9:23Joe Rogan?

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• 10:07Joe Rogan?

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• 10:52Joe Rogan?

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• 11:32Joe Rogan?

  walk away from promising NFL careers to enlist in the Marines and fight in World War II. And the craziest part, it's a true story. These guys had their whole lives ahead of them, but traded the glory of the gridiron for the brutal reality of combat, where the stakes were life and death. Directed by Peter Berg, the guy behind Friday Night Lights, and starring Nicholas Galitzine, Bill Skarsgård, Ray Nicholson, and Tom Francis. The Mosquito Bowl, now playing in theaters.

• 12:04Speaker 02

  If you think about how much, in their minds, they were able to achieve and how much they were able to destroy in that duration is crazy if you go down in history.

• 12:18Joe Rogan?

  Changed the course of countries forever.

• 12:21Speaker 02

  Human lives forever.

• 12:22Joe Rogan?

  Forever.

• 12:22Speaker 02

  Like the amount of vilting that happened.

• 12:25Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 12:25Speaker 02

  Millions and millions of lives. And this movie actually has a really interesting slice of what they were capable of doing. They utilized pirates in order to, you know, take over new lands, right? And in their conquests. And then when piracy was abolished, they, you know, went after them. And they wanted to arrest them. And they vilified the same people that helped them build their entire empire. So this was really interesting because my character's story, her parents and her family are indentured servants, which was the truth of many, many people, especially in India, where young people were...

• 13:07Speaker 02

  You know, told better opportunities, new lands, more money. Come with us and take them off as servants and then drop them in different parts of the world, in islands. And the Caribbean has a huge Indian community whose history started with just being displaced from their lands and dropped somewhere else in the world and then having to figure out what your future looks like. I mean, it still happens to many, many people around the world right now, but I thought it was really interesting that my character came from that and her entire identity was erased, taken from her. She had no idea. She was 12, so she had no idea what it meant to have that identity.

• 13:49Speaker 02

  And I met so many people, actually, when I went to the Cayman, who don't know anything about their family tree beyond like five generations. Or they know where their family may have come from, from Sri Lanka or from India or, you know, any other nation, but have no idea what like, what it was, where, from what village, like what was your culture. And that ambiguity in a history of a human being erases a part of you. It denies you of knowing the depth of your culture or where you come from or your roots. And I thought that was really, really interesting for my character

• 14:33Speaker 02

  to play and then reclaim herself through the journey of the movie.

• 14:38Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's a fascinating part of human history.

• 14:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:40Joe Rogan?

  And it's taken place all over the world. And for a lot of cultures, they don't have an understanding of exactly what happened before they were colonized.

• 14:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:54Joe Rogan?

  Like, one of the great examples is Mexico. I went on a long, deep dive on Mexico recently over the last few months, because I've had a bunch of people who are historians who came on the podcast, who are just researching these ancient Inca and Mayan sites and talking to them about it. And then I went into it and it's like, there was over a hundred different languages that are just lost forever in that whole, what is now called Mexico. And that's the reason why everybody over there speaks Spanish and is Catholic. Like, it's not because that was their language and that was their religion. They were all conquered.

• 15:30Speaker 02

  Absolutely. I mean-

• 15:31Joe Rogan?

  By like 600 guys. That's what's nuts.

• 15:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 15:36Joe Rogan?

  Six hundred guys in the fifteen hundreds came over, took over, you know, what was the Aztec empire with help of the people that they were in conflict with and changed the course of the entire country.

• 15:51Speaker 02

  For so many generations.

• 15:52Joe Rogan?

  For forever. Like to this day, people in Mexico think they speak Spanish and they have a Catholic religion. Well, that's all brought over from Spain, like the entire country. They had wild names too, like Kakao, Thunder, Sky God and all these different, like almost like Native American type names.

• 16:11Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 16:12Joe Rogan?

  They looked like Native Americans. And but if you think about it, doesn't that make sense?

• 16:15Speaker 02

  That makes so much sense. They probably like shared land and crops and like.

• 16:20Joe Rogan?

  Well, there was no real.

• 16:22Speaker 02

  There were no borders at that time.

• 16:23Joe Rogan?

  Back then, I mean, what what were countries in the fifteen hundreds in in North America? Like what was, we don't even know, like what was North America?

• 16:32Speaker 02

  I mean, I think about how young America is technically.

• 16:35Joe Rogan?

  Super young.

• 16:36Speaker 02

  Like, how many years, three hundred years, four hundred years?

• 16:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, less, less than three hundred years.

• 16:40Speaker 02

  Yeah. And and like you were talking about history in in India. She has been invaded over thousands and thousands and thousands of years, only invaded. We've never invaded anybody else. She's not had the time. It was like, just gave me a break. Um, yeah, the Portuguese, the British, um, the Moghuls, like from back in time and uh, the history of India, I mean, I'm not a historian and I don't claim to be, but I find it really fascinating. I love culture and especially the culture of India. Like you will see, my grandmother was Catholic. Because she comes, she was raised in a part of India which was colonized and a lot of people with Kerala, a lot of people were converted into Catholicism.

• 17:25Speaker 02

  And she grew up Catholic and, you know, she she followed it for a very long time in her life. India is like hyper diverse because of how many um, people have kind of made it her roots. So when you go to India, the amount of diversity you will see. The kind of, the range of people that you will meet is impossible to fathom. Like, an Indian face does not look like a particular person.

• 17:51Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 17:52Speaker 02

  Or the amount of cultures, the languages. We have written and spoken languages, which are almost like twenty-something or in their thirties. Absolutely different alphabet, absolutely different sound. I can't, if I go to another state, I won't be able to understand what people are saying.

• 18:08Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 18:09Speaker 02

  It's amazing.

• 18:10Joe Rogan?

  Wow, how many different languages are spoken there?

• 18:13Speaker 02

  About twenty-eight to thirty, but there are dialects in their hundreds.

• 18:18Joe Rogan?

  Oh, wow.

• 18:19Speaker 02

  Don't even get into the dialects. I just speak English and Hindi. Understand a little bit of Punjabi and Marathi, but it's, it's really amazing.

• 18:29Joe Rogan?

  Now, but-

• 18:30Speaker 02

  Have you ever been, by the way?

• 18:31Joe Rogan?

  No, I haven't.

• 18:31Speaker 02

  Oh, Joe, you have to, you would, you would really, like, you're the kind of guy who likes a deep dive.

• 18:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 18:36Speaker 02

  You would really lose yourself, I think, in an amazing way.

• 18:40Joe Rogan?

  Just to see, i- if, for many things, but just to see that one immense temple that was carved entirely out of stone.

• 18:48Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 18:49Joe Rogan?

  Is one of the great mysteries of archaeology.

• 18:51Speaker 02

  But there, there are quite a few, if you go especially south of India and the caves. If you go inside the Andaman and Nicobar, like, the caves, you'll see from thousands and tens and thousands of years ago, illustrations that, that you're like, how, how did this happen? How could this temple have been chiseled? Or how could, you know, these stones have been moved at that time?

• 19:16Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 19:16Speaker 02

  It's just, it makes you, it made me very, very curious about, like, what kind of tools did we have back then?

• 19:22Joe Rogan?

  Well, there's a lot of holes in human history.

• 19:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, for sure.

• 19:25Joe Rogan?

  Graham Hancock has a great quote. He says that we are a species with amnesia. And I think that's accurate. And I, I think when you find some of the great archaeological wonders, where, where people just have decided, oh, they built it this way, and then just let it go. And then other people start looking at it and go, wait a minute, how? How did they do this? Like, when did they do this? Like, what's the, what's the historical record of this? Because this is kind of nuts. This seems to indicate, like, a very advanced, sophisticated society.

• 19:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, a very advanced civilization. Like, one of the oldest civilizations in the world, along with the Mayans, is the Indus Valley Civilization, which is the north of India.

• 20:07Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 20:09Speaker 02

  And I just remember studying about it in school and that's my my maximum understanding of that civilization, but also like having visited the Indus River, I guess. But I remember like the the artifacts that were found and like if you do a deep dive into how that civilization existed and then how it was erased. And you know, it makes you question like it's there had to be some seriously advanced like scientific understanding that was eventually lost as you know, as human evolution happened where we lose a civilization and then comes back again.

• 20:50Speaker 02

  But it just makes you wonder about early humans and how fascinatingly advanced we would have had to be to do all of that.

• 20:59Joe Rogan?

  100%.

• 21:00Speaker 02

  Without the technology and stuff that we have, I mean.

• 21:03Joe Rogan?

  I think they had technology. I think they had a different technology.

• 21:05Speaker 02

  I think so too.

• 21:06Joe Rogan?

  I think they had to. It's almost time for spring break. So maybe you're headed to the beach or maybe you're taking the kids on a road trip or maybe you're just taking some extra time for yourself. No matter what, you deserve a break and a reset and AG1 can help. AG1 is your daily health drink. Just one scoop combines your multivitamin, pre and probiotics, superfoods and antioxidants to help support a healthy immune system and digestion. Plus it travels really well. So you could start working it into your routine even when you don't have a routine. Just slip a few travel packs into your luggage and have a nice flight. I've talked about AG1 for a long time and it's not just me. I know a lot of people enjoy it.

• 21:47Joe Rogan?

  It's very easy. It's very convenient and you deserve to take care of your health. Visit drinkag1.com/joeroogan and for a limited time, get a bottle of omega 3, vitamin D3 K2 and an AG1 flavor sampler for free in your welcome kit with your first subscription. That's a $111 value at drinkag1.com/joeroogan. This one particular temple that I'm talking about, Jamie, do you know the temple I'm talking about? The one insanely massive one that's built into the side of a mountain? This is it. This is crazy.

• 22:27Speaker 02

  This is what I meant.

• 22:27Joe Rogan?

  Because the precision, first of all, there's no like, understanding of where the stone went. Like, they moved, who knows how many.

• 22:37Speaker 02

  And how did you take out all of those tons of rocks?

• 22:40Joe Rogan?

  Yes. It's so insane. The precision is spectacular. It's so nuts when you see like videos of people going through it. Immense. Absolutely immense and incredibly precise. And, and just carved out of a solid piece of stone. The whole thing is carved out of the mountain.

• 23:03Speaker 02

  Think about how old that is. Like, this is all B.C., before Christ, like thousands and thousands of years.

• 23:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 23:12Speaker 02

  B.C. And the history of India, like, hence the diversity, you see, it's, it's, it's a, it's one of the oldest civilizations in the world and then, like, how do you explain that? Look at that image.

• 23:22Joe Rogan?

  So it says it's twelve, what does it say? How old did it say it was?

• 23:25Speaker 04

  Twelve hundred.

• 23:27Joe Rogan?

  How do they know that? The, the, twelve hundred years old? See, there's a lot of just estimates based on what was the civilization at the time.

• 23:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 23:37Joe Rogan?

  And there's no, like, this is the, the thing with Peru, like, Saxoan and a lot of these places where they attributed to the Incas. But you see like traditional Inca structures on top of these immense stones that are a hundred tons. They're carving these weird jigsaw patterns as to absorb the energy if there's an earthquake.

• 23:56Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 23:57Joe Rogan?

  Like, it's weird shit. And it's like, okay, well, who did that? So like, oh, the Incas did it. Like, how? How'd they do that? Because all their other structures are smaller stones stacked on top of each other in a way that like, you could see a person carrying them and cutting them. Makes sense. But there's a lot of stuff like that temple, like, explain to me.

• 24:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 24:15Joe Rogan?

  What you used.

• 24:16Speaker 02

  There's no explanation.

• 24:18Joe Rogan?

  Like, how? Like, did you metal? Did you just use metal and carve that out like that?

• 24:22Speaker 02

  And like, just a chisel and human.

• 24:24Joe Rogan?

  And if you fuck up once, it's over. Because you're not putting things on top of things, like, oh, this block sucks, let's get a new block. No, you're carving.

• 24:32Speaker 02

  Do you change the design if that's? Is a fuck up like you know what I mean if you're trying to build like a human form and you chisel off the nose. Like do you turn it into something else? I don't know, probably, otherwise, because it's just one piece and you're right, you're not adding.

• 24:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 24:48Speaker 02

  Anything to it.

• 24:49Joe Rogan?

  Well, in Egypt, there's indications that they abandoned certain pieces because they cracked. Because when you're dealing with, you know, granite and there's certain, specifically, there's a gigantic obelisk that they were carving out that, I mean, I think it was like thirteen hundred tons, like something bananas. Like, okay, how are you gonna move this fucking thing? But they got to a certain point where there's a crack in it, and so they had to abandon it, and so it's still there. Yeah, it's still, I think that's in, it might be in Oswan, I'm not sure where it is.

• 25:18Speaker 02

  Do you know, like, you know, the theories around the Egyptian pyramids, obviously, like, how were those blocks carried up?

• 25:29Joe Rogan?

  There's no valid theory, zero.

• 25:32Speaker 02

  Was it that shape and so precisely geometrically, you know?

• 25:37Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's even more complicated now, because there's an Italian scientist that we had on recently called Filippo Bondi. Am I saying it right? Bondi? He's amazing accent, this guy, it's fucking incredible. But he's using, what is it, radio Doppler tomography? So it's, it's a type of satellite imagery that uses some technology to get a vision of what's under the ground. And they've used this successfully to show known caverns in the ground and known pyramids. And they even used it in Italy to show that they can look through a one point two kilometer mountain and see underneath it this particle collider

• 26:22Joe Rogan?

  and have an exact dimension of the particle collider and see what the, the outlet. So they used this on the pyramids and they found these immense structures under the pyramids that go over a kilometer into the ground with massive, these, these huge twenty di- twenty meter diameter.

• 26:43Joe Rogan?

  Columns that have these huge circular coils wrapped around them. No one knows what the hell they're looking at, but they're in very precise positions. They've done over 200 scans of these things. They don't know what they are. They don't know what's the purpose of all this? Who made this? So if this turns out to be accurate, and they're very confident that it's accurate, and they're starting to look into it deeper, and they're trying to figure out how to get down in there and explore with drones or something. Then the whole thing gets thrown into question. Because it's preposterous enough that you have someone who's able to cut and place

• 27:23Joe Rogan?

  2,300,000 stones that's perfectly aligned to true north, south, east, and west. Some of them weigh as much as 80 tons.

• 27:32Speaker 02

  Tons, which is insane.

• 27:33Joe Rogan?

  That come from 500 miles away, through the mountains, no roads. Like, how'd you do it? That's crazy.

• 27:38Speaker 02

  That's crazy in itself.

• 27:39Joe Rogan?

  But if there's structures underneath that that go a kilometer into the ground, and like, there's a giant, like, huge square at the bottom. They don't know what it is. But these are structures. These are not like something that is just a naturally occurring stone.

• 27:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was man-made and...

• 27:57Joe Rogan?

  Show her an image of it. It's fucking kooky.

• 27:59Speaker 02

  So what, is that like how...

• 28:01Joe Rogan?

  So these are these columns. This is like what the images are showing, and the three-dimensional replication of what they think is, that's what they think it looks like underneath there. They have no idea what these things are.

• 28:13Speaker 02

  What?

• 28:15Joe Rogan?

  There's also, is that Hawara that has that underground labyrinth? They've also found, this Herodotus wrote about these labyrinths. There's a great channel on YouTube called Uncharted X by this guy Ben Van Kirkwick, who's been on the podcast before. He's great. And they've used radio, well, they used ground penetrating radar in that location. They found that these immense labyrinths are real. They're there. They're huge. Herodotus said it's greater than Giza, and it's underground. And in the center of one of these atriums, there is a 40-meter metallic object that's shaped like a Tic Tac. It's in the center of this...

• 29:00Speaker 02

  What?

• 29:02Joe Rogan?

  So, there's a bunch of shit that they don't, they can't explain down there. Where you're like, okay, what is this? They also know that a lot of these civilizations, like later versions of it, took from some of the older sites and started building new things or built on top of them, like very disrespectfully, but nobody had an idea of like the importance of history back then. You're just trying to stay alive. And so they found all these stones, let's use these stones.

• 29:27Speaker 02

  Oh my gosh, totally. In India, like when we were colonized, you hear stories of, you know, the British, um, officers telling like little kids that, "Hey, I'll give you two pounds, go and get the gold statue from this temple or whatever." And you don't have comprehension of what the value of historical things were, that there was so much that was taken from India in terms of wealth and, um, history and historical artifacts. And the Kohinoor Diamond, which is still on the Queen's, uh, crown, which came from India. Um, and like so many things.

• 30:03Joe Rogan?

  The Queen of England?

• 30:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:04Joe Rogan?

  She has a diamond on her crown that she stole from it.

• 30:06Speaker 02

  Pull it up, Kohinoor Diamond.

• 30:08Joe Rogan?

  That bitch. Give it back.

• 30:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, we've been asking for it for a minute. We have.

• 30:18Joe Rogan?

  Well, the whole history of England and India is nuts too. That's the diamond? Whoa, how big is that sucker?

• 30:23Speaker 02

  The crown of the Queen.

• 30:25Joe Rogan?

  How big is that thing?

• 30:27Speaker 02

  How big would that be?

• 30:32Joe Rogan?

  Whoa. What is that worth? What's a hundred, well, besides the historical value of it, which is probably priceless, what is a hundred and five carats worth? That's nuts.

• 30:45Speaker 02

  A couple of million, a couple of hundred million. Yeah.

• 30:49Joe Rogan?

  Woo!

• 30:49Speaker 02

  I mean, that's what I'm saying, that royalty in India had so much jewelry. Um, and wealth and stuff that was pillaged and just taken.

• 30:58Joe Rogan?

  Well, the history of India is fascinating, like in the the Vedic texts and the the the the descriptions of vimanas. Have you ever read any of that stuff?

• 31:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, the Vedas, not and not extensively, but clearly you have.

• 31:12Joe Rogan?

  The vimanas are, it's like, what are you talking about? You're talking about flying crafts?

• 31:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:16Joe Rogan?

  Like, what do you?

• 31:17Speaker 02

  That's the thing, you go, if you do a deep dive into the mythology of India and the stories that come from there. The kind of technology that has been mentioned in these ancient texts, like the vimanas you're saying, you have flying objects, you have um spears with some sort of energy. You have bows and arrows with some sort of energy that travels beyond time and light. And there's so much of all of this stuff referenced back then, which maybe humans thought was magic, but was some form of ancient technology, like who's to say, but we do definitely believe

• 31:55Speaker 02

  in Indian mythology, if you go back into Hinduism and and the incredible stories that exist. Like, I love to think about where the origin, like where it must have come from.

• 32:07Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 32:09Speaker 02

  But there's so many fascinating, fascinating stories from then.

• 32:13Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I I have an opinion that most people that were writing things down back then were trying to document a truth.

• 32:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, for sure.

• 32:22Joe Rogan?

  I don't think they were trying to make up stories.

• 32:23Speaker 02

  I think it was definitely their truth.

• 32:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 32:25Speaker 02

  From our perspective now, we have to be like, how do you break down the truth of, you know, that there was this light that arrived from miles and miles away and it felt like, I don't know, was it a bomb? Like, what was it? What was it of that time?

• 32:41Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 32:42Speaker 02

  So it's cool to kind of try and interpret that. I mean, I I believe in the mysticism and the magic of ancient humans. And, you know, the beginning of time, there's no way to explain. What and how that was, you know, we have the information we do from religious texts and historians of the past, but it's just really fascinating to think about how resilient and human beings have been and how evolutions have had the same problems over time, but we kind of just navigated through different worlds, you know?

• 33:17Joe Rogan?

  I think, yeah, I think it's hard for us to grasp timelines. And then when-

• 33:23Speaker 02

  It's really impossible. Think about like how short a human lifespan used to be-

• 33:28Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 33:29Speaker 02

  -to where it is now. How, the, basically, our stories have to come from like people telling people's stories or documenting them, right?

• 33:36Joe Rogan?

  Right, right. And those stories, like, when you're talking about certain passages in the Bible or certain passages in any religious text, a lot of those were stories that were just handed down for generations and generations before anybody wrote anything.

• 33:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:54Joe Rogan?

  So it's like, what were they trying to remember? Like, when they're talking about flying Vimanas, like, what were they talking about? Like, what did they experience? And how long ago was it? Because I don't think we have a real understanding of how long ago it is.

• 34:09Speaker 02

  I mean, seventeen thousand B.C. is where, or around that time. That's that many years ago is what they say, but again, who knows?

• 34:20Joe Rogan?

  That makes sense. Well, that makes sense if you take into account the-

• 34:23Speaker 02

  Twenty thousand B.C.

• 34:24Joe Rogan?

  There's a guy named Randall Carlson who's been on my podcast a few times, and he's a really fascinating guy, and he's an expert in asteroid collisions with Earth.

• 34:33Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 34:34Joe Rogan?

  He's an expert in all the different times that Earth has been slammed by comets and meteors and-

• 34:39Speaker 02

  Is that how the dinosaurs were-

• 34:41Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 34:42Speaker 02

  So it did, it was an asteroid?

• 34:44Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they believe so. It was in the Yucatan, that one. That's the sixty-five billion years ago one, but there's other ones that are, that are before that.

• 34:51Speaker 02

  More before that?

• 34:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and then there's other ones that are after that. And one of the more interesting ones is called the Younger Dryas Impact Theory, and that one's from about eleven thousand eight hundred years ago, and then again, they think somewhere in the ten thousand years that happened. So there's a comet storm that we pass by. I think it's every June and November. Forget what those, the time is, but this is like also aligns with, do you know about the Tongouska event? Have you ever heard of that?

• 35:16Speaker 02

  No.

• 35:17Joe Rogan?

  In the early nineteen hundreds, um, a meteor exploded in the sky above Russia and devastated like a million acres of land. And it was during the same time period and they realized like, there's this comet storm that we pass through. Like when you see meteor showers during the sky, it's because we're passing through these areas of our solar system that have these comets. This is the Tunguska event. So it just, and to this day, that area has no trees on it.

• 35:46Speaker 02

  Whoa.

• 35:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. So it just flattened everything and it didn't even impact the ground. It blew up in the sky above it. And this was not even a big one.

• 35:58Speaker 02

  So how does like nothing grow again? Like what?

• 36:02Joe Rogan?

  I don't know, it's a good question.

• 36:03Speaker 02

  What is that asteroid made of that you can, like, Earth has been able to come back from so much.

• 36:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's a good question.

• 36:10Speaker 02

  That's crazy.

• 36:11Joe Rogan?

  Maybe it's just not enough time. I don't know. I mean, a hundred and seventeen years, maybe some, maybe eventually.

• 36:15Speaker 02

  It needs like a millennia.

• 36:16Joe Rogan?

  But it probably just blew the roots off of everything. It blew everything into smithereens and it probably had some kind of chemical effect too, because it's a physical object. I don't know what it was made out of, but you know, some of them are made out of iron, some of them are made out of nickel, like that big one that they saw, Three Eye Atlas that passed through.

• 36:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 36:38Joe Rogan?

  That was a weird one because they're like, this is a nickel alloy that is as big as the size of Manhattan. And the only way we have it on Earth is in industrial manufacturing of an alloy. But this thing in another planet, somewhere else, millions and millions and millions of years ago, was formed under whatever weird circumstances and conditions. This episode is brought to you by Visible. As fall hits, we enter another season of change. Time to shift gears, drop the dead weight and upgrade the wardrobe for the drop in temperature. But one thing that doesn't need to change? Your phone. The smartest upgrade this season isn't a new phone. It's a better wireless plan. Switch to Visible, the ultimate wireless hack.

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• 38:59Joe Rogan?

  Their planet has.

• 39:00Speaker 02

  But you, I mean, I want to know your thoughts on this, but you definitely don't think we're like the only species existing in the universe, right?

• 39:09Joe Rogan?

  I don't think that's possible.

• 39:10Speaker 02

  It's human arrogance if we think we do.

• 39:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that seems silly.

• 39:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 39:15Joe Rogan?

  It doesn't make sense. There's just too many planets. It's a silly thing to think and they've found evidence of life on Mars. So they've found evidence of some sort of bacterial life on Mars, like the traces of bacterial life. Um, and that's, you know, right there.

• 39:29Speaker 02

  That's what I'm saying. Maybe it's just in within our Milky Way that we, I mean, we haven't even been able to travel outside of that yet. You know, to get information, but it has, there has to be other species um that exist and other like intelligence and technology.

• 39:46Joe Rogan?

  Do you know the actor, Terrence Howard?

• 39:48Speaker 02

  I mean, I know of him.

• 39:49Joe Rogan?

  Fascinating guy, like a little kooky, but super smart, like super smart. He's got some wild ideas. One of his ideas, I was like, wait, what? He thinks that life occurs when planets get a certain distance from their sun. And then over time, they get too far out and then life doesn't exist on those planets anymore. But when they're in this Goldilocks zone like Earth is for a long period of time and relative to our life. Life exists and then intelligent life emerges and figures out, hey, we gotta get out of here eventually because this is not going to sustain us. And then it propagates the world, or the universe, rather.

• 40:35Joe Rogan?

  And he thinks that there's a thing that happens and he calls it peopling. He thinks that when a planet gets far further enough from the sun, that it eventually peoples. Because it eventually reaches the right conditions where life emerges and evolution takes place and natural selection and random mutation, all these things converge. And eventually you get an intelligent creature that knows how to manipulate its environment.

• 41:03Speaker 02

  Is there any proof of planets like moving away from their sun?

• 41:10Joe Rogan?

  Well, they all do slowly, very slowly.

• 41:13Speaker 02

  Like, so even our, even our solar system, we're all like slowly.

• 41:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and also the sun is eventually going to burn out and explode and then we're fucked. But that's a long time from now.

• 41:24Speaker 02

  There's enough shit to be worried about.

• 41:27Joe Rogan?

  Nothing's permanent. Like, suns are not, and we're lucky, we have a slow burn sun. So we have a relatively small sun and it's uh, it. There's a lot of weird speculation that it's part of a binary solar system, too. That there might have been another version of our sun that burned out. That's like way out there, like way out in space, like way past Pluto, way out there.

• 41:51Speaker 02

  I'd buy that.

• 41:51Joe Rogan?

  It's possible. I mean, there's, there's a lot of wacky theories as to why. There seems to be some large object that's outside of our vision. That's way, way past Pluto. So there's a thing called the Kuiper Belt that's outside of Pluto, and that's one part of what Pluto is, which is why they decide it's not really a planet anymore. But they think there's something else out there that's a lar- they call it Planet X. They think there, there's, it's a lot of like weird speculation, whether or not it's real. But they think there might be a large body, larger than Earth, like Jupiter sized or something, like way out there. And it might be a sun. It might be a burnt out sun.

• 42:25Speaker 02

  Like a burnt out sun that was...

• 42:26Joe Rogan?

  Which is crazy.

• 42:27Speaker 02

  Insane.

• 42:28Joe Rogan?

  Well, Earth alone, like Earth, the reason why we have the moon supposedly is because Earth was hit by another planet. There's Earth one.

• 42:34Speaker 02

  So was the moon part of the Earth?

• 42:36Joe Rogan?

  The, the moon was like a big chunk of that collision that burst off and then became the moon. So there's Earth one and Earth two.

• 42:45Speaker 02

  Does that happen with all the planets? Like because all the planets that have their own moons are explosions, maybe?

• 42:51Joe Rogan?

  This is a question, good question. I mean, maybe some of them are enormous asteroids that got caught in the gravity and maybe of them. Maybe it's volcanic activity. I don't know. I think a lot of it's asteroid impacts, too. They'd knock off giant chunks and those chunks start orbiting that planet.

• 43:08Speaker 02

  So does that mean that all of those planets do have like a gravitational pull as well?

• 43:12Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, they are a pull, yeah.

• 43:14Speaker 02

  Like how strong would that gravitational pull be?

• 43:17Joe Rogan?

  Well, it depends on the mass of the planet.

• 43:19Speaker 02

  Like Jupiter, for example?

• 43:20Joe Rogan?

  Jupiter is what protects us. The reason why we don't get hit a lot is because Jupiter's so big. So Jupiter has so much mass and so much gravity that it's like our big brother that like protects us.

• 43:33Speaker 02

  Oh, thanks Jupiter.

• 43:35Joe Rogan?

  For real?

• 43:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, that's great.

• 43:37Joe Rogan?

  And they, they actually observed an impact on Jupiter. I want to say it was in the 1980s. Where an enormous asteroid slammed into Jupiter and created a Earth-sized explosion.

• 43:49Joe Rogan?

  An explosion is-

• 43:50Speaker 02

  Which separated from-

• 43:51Joe Rogan?

  No, it just got absorbed it. Jupiter just absorbed it, but they watched it in real time. And it was a way bigger explosion than they thought it was gonna be like, yo. So then they have to like recalculate like, oh. How big was that thing? And it made a literal impact as large as the earth.

• 44:09Speaker 02

  Oh my god.

• 44:10Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 44:10Speaker 02

  I have to see that video.

• 44:11Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's the, the solar system is just a fucking shooting gallery. Which brings us back, which brings us back to this younger dry impact theory, which is one of the predominant theories as to why ancient, super advanced civilizations completely disappeared and there's no evidence of them. And there's a lot of physical evidence. When they do core samples of the earth, they find there's a lot of iridium, which is very common in space, but very rare on earth, which indicates some sort of an impact. And then they also find micro diamonds, these nuclear diamonds, they, I think they call it trinitite. And they, they first observed this when they did the trinity explosion.

• 44:50Joe Rogan?

  So the nuclear explosion created these micro diamonds on the ground, just some massive impact and explosion, heat and energy. Well, they find those littered all throughout the world in this same core sample timeline of like eleven thousand eight hundred years. So they think we were just bombarded. So a lot of these things like these temples in India, perhaps the pyramids, some structures that were stone, probably just survived.

• 45:16Speaker 02

  No, for sure. There's so much that has survived, I think, from like a timeline we can't even explain. I mean, in India, we, we see so much of it. So many of our texts, the Vedas are, you know, the oldest texts in the world. Um, and to be able to like read stories, which now maybe we imagine are stories, but are probably a reality of a civilization gone by-

• 45:40Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 45:41Speaker 02

  Is just crazy to think about.

• 45:43Joe Rogan?

  I think more likely than not.

• 45:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:45Joe Rogan?

  And I think more and more over time, people are opening up, opening up to this possibility. Like they recently just found written language that is twenty-

• 45:56Joe Rogan?

  Eight thousand years old? And that, they thought that hu- human written language was created about six thousand years ago? And they found evidence of language-

• 46:04Speaker 02

  I didn't read about this.

• 46:05Joe Rogan?

  So they're, they're like, okay. That's a giant difference.

• 46:08Speaker 02

  But how can we also know what happened in so many parts of the earth? When anyway, the earth was moving, right? Like the continents, what it looks like right now is not what it probably looked like twenty thousand years ago. Like, it, it's been slowly moving. I feel like, how are we supposed to know? Like, someone who writes a book, say, in Mexico, like, what happened then in Australia? Or what happened, what was the history in, like, India, you know what I mean?

• 46:36Joe Rogan?

  Right. Especially fifteen, you know, fifteen hundreds, sixteen hundreds.

• 46:40Speaker 02

  Years ago.

• 46:41Joe Rogan?

  When they were writing about stuff back then, they were just making shit up.

• 46:43Speaker 02

  So the shit that we read-

• 46:45Joe Rogan?

  Human may have used these mysterious symbols to encode information tens of thousands of years before the first writing systems. Forty thousand year old artifacts.

• 46:57Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. So it's some kind of way of documenting things.

• 47:00Speaker 02

  Of communicating.

• 47:02Joe Rogan?

  You know, if, if these people like Graham Hancock and Randall Carlson are correct, there was some sort of a very, very advanced civilization pre-eleven thousand eight hundred years ago. And this also coincides with the end of the Ice Age. It coincides with all of the ice caps over North America disappearing. Like, North America was covered, like, three quarters of North America was covered, like, a mile-high sheet of ice. Went away like that. That's why the Great Lakes exist. The Great Lakes are just that ice melted.

• 47:30Speaker 02

  Melted.

• 47:31Joe Rogan?

  And then whatever was left just ran through the country. And you can see the physical evidence of it when they show satellite images. It looks like enormous amounts of water just destroyed the landscape and, and completely carved it and changed it.

• 47:44Speaker 02

  What do you think happened with, and I, I wonder if you have, because you have so much extensive knowledge with the amazing guests that you have on the show. How did we go from Neanderthal or early man to this technology-driven, like, really smart, intelligent? Like, what happened in, in history and the evolution of human beings that we were able to make that switch so quick?

• 48:10Joe Rogan?

  It's a real good question. There's a lot of, you know-

• 48:14Speaker 02

  I mean, I, I, I've heard theories, but I wanna know yours.

• 48:17Joe Rogan?

  Um, if I didn't worry at all about being ridiculous, and I don't, uh, I would.

• 48:23Speaker 02

  You don't. There was no need for that precursor.

• 48:28Joe Rogan?

  But if I didn't worry about that, I would say something helped us.

• 48:32Speaker 02

  That's what I think.

• 48:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I don't think, I don't think it makes sense that that didn't take place.

• 48:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's crazy to think about how that happened and how quickly it happened.

• 48:42Joe Rogan?

  Well, yeah, there's a, there's a lot of like weird stuff with us. Also, all those other primates are still around, except the early man ones. You know, that's what's weird. It's like, why aren't, you know, how come chimpanzees are kind of the same? How come all these other primates are kind of the same? And yet we need clothes to stay warm now.

• 49:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, like a mammoth to an elephant, you know what I mean?

• 49:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 49:06Speaker 02

  Like, still similar.

• 49:07Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it makes sense.

• 49:08Speaker 02

  Why, how do we have like planes and why do we like things and how could we make cups and?

• 49:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, why do we change our environment that way? Why do we have this insatiable desire to innovate? Insatiable, like we, that's the number one thing that we do.

• 49:23Speaker 02

  Constantly changing.

• 49:25Joe Rogan?

  Constantly making new and better things, never satisfied with anything new. Everything has to be better. It doesn't matter how good your car is, what's the next year's model gonna be?

• 49:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 49:33Joe Rogan?

  Doesn't matter what your phone does, I want better pictures, bitch. Like, no matter what, it's always like, we, we want something to be better all the time.

• 49:40Speaker 02

  We can one up what we had. What is that?

• 49:43Joe Rogan?

  I think it's built into us, and I think that is a part of this process of becoming a human being. And I think it's leading us to develop AI. That's what I really think. But I, I think we most likely, something intervened. Now, there's a lot of people that think, the rational people think that it was the invention of fire and the cooking of food that gave us better access to nutrition and protein, and then innovating in order to hunt allowed the brain.

• 50:12Speaker 02

  But it was such an accelerated period of time. It went like so quickly.

• 50:17Joe Rogan?

  The, the human brain size doubled over a period of two million years, which is the greatest mystery in it, in the entire fossil record. Yeah.

• 50:23Speaker 02

  Like, what made that happen?

• 50:25Joe Rogan?

  We don't know, but.

• 50:28Joe Rogan?

  In religious texts, ancient religious texts, there's many stories of human beings breeding with something from somewhere else. That's a part of-

• 50:39Speaker 02

  Alien intervention.

• 50:40Joe Rogan?

  Yes, yes.

• 50:41Speaker 02

  Right, without trying to sound ridiculous.

• 50:43Joe Rogan?

  Hyper intelligent life form. But if you think about it, if-

• 50:46Speaker 02

  I was watching a show about that and I was like, that makes sense.

• 50:50Joe Rogan?

  What was the show you were watching? Do you remember?

• 50:51Speaker 02

  Ancient Aliens.

• 50:56Joe Rogan?

  That show's the best. It's so silly.

• 50:59Speaker 02

  It's amazing. But I was, it's like two in the morning, I'm like, oh.

• 51:04Joe Rogan?

  My friend Action Bronson, he used to do a show, he doesn't do that show anymore, does he? They would get super baked and watch Ancient Aliens. They'd be like, bro.

• 51:13Speaker 02

  Ancient Aliens is rad. I love that show. Two in the morning.

• 51:17Joe Rogan?

  Oh, it's fun. It's very fun. I think they're right about some of those things. I think there's something to it. I mean, that is one of the oldest biblical texts that wasn't included in the canon that is the Bible is the Book of Enoch. And I had Anna Paulina Luna on the podcast and she was, she brought that up and I was like, she was like, you really should read that. So I read it and you start reading, you're like, wait, what the hell are they talking about? The watchers came down from the sky to mate with humans and created the Nephilim, a race of giants that destroyed the earth. You're like, what are you talking about? Like, what is this? This is in the Bible?

• 51:59Joe Rogan?

  And it would have been in the Bible if it not for a few rabbis that decided this doesn't jive with the Torah. And so they say, we gotta get that out of there. And that's why it's not taught along with the Book of Ezekiel and all these other things that are in the Old Testament.

• 52:11Speaker 02

  Wow. Verses like in Hindu mythology also, you know, we read about a time where God, human, and demon existed at the same time and procreated. And like, created different realms and, you know, life and stories and the, you know, so it's like, when you think about stories like that, stories, beliefs, you know, from around the world that have similar sort of-

• 52:40Speaker 02

  Color.

• 52:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 52:41Speaker 02

  It's almost like trying to connect the dots of what must have happened at that time, you know, all around the world.

• 52:48Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 52:48Speaker 02

  It's probably the same thing. You know, some sort of incredible technology.

• 52:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and some and a lot of them have these stories of something of some kind of higher nature, higher power, higher technology intervening in the lives of human beings and even manipulating the the process.

• 53:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, but isn't that what I think was referred to as the gods?

• 53:16Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 53:17Speaker 02

  Like if you think about the Roman, you know, or Egyptian like gods. I'm not one to speak about culture, but I can't even say about ours, but that power that we read about, you know, that like if you if you go into it, I'm I'm a big believer. So I think that, you know, was that like a real experience that happened to a human being at that time?

• 53:42Joe Rogan?

  A real experience with someone that had a limited vocabulary, a limited amount of knowledge and a limited ability to write things down. And so they probably stole told these stories from whatever words they could use to describe what this was. Like if you were living thirty thousand years ago, forty thousand years ago, and a UFO landed, a giant metallic disc landed and little tiny creatures came out and talked to you telepathically, you don't have a written language, you don't, your cultures, hunter gatherers, like, how do you?

• 54:13Speaker 02

  Tell that story.

• 54:14Joe Rogan?

  How do you tell that story? And what are the people that you told that story to going to tell their children and their grandchildren for many, many, many, many generations before anybody figures out how to write things down?

• 54:25Speaker 02

  Totally. But another perspective on this, which people have is, is that our pragmatic?

• 54:33Speaker 02

  Practical twenty twenty six human trying to explain something that was magical and did exist at a time that we we don't have an explanation for.

• 54:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 54:44Speaker 02

  You know what I mean?

• 54:44Joe Rogan?

  For sure.

• 54:45Speaker 02

  Like, there's the other side of that with people that, you know, you hear so many stories of visitations from the gods back then, you know, to humans and the divinity of, at at least in my country for sure, of different avatars of gods coming down to earth to save humankind and

• 55:05Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 55:06Speaker 02

  to help in human salvation and to help them against evil. So when you hear of those stories, like, the practical side of me would be like, are those human stories and who is that, that power that they were seeing at that time? And then there's a side of you which is like, there's so much we can't explain and sometimes have to like, leave it to inexplicable magic of the universe. Like, I'm someone who loves science, but I also am a believer of that it just can't explain everything.

• 55:39Joe Rogan?

  Well, even science itself, like hardcore, materialist science.

• 55:45Speaker 02

  Totally.

• 55:46Joe Rogan?

  If you're trying to explain the Big Bang, good fucking luck. Good fucking luck.

• 55:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 55:51Joe Rogan?

  Making sense out of something smaller than the head of a pin that became everything that's in the universe. Okay.

• 55:56Speaker 02

  Like, explain that to me.

• 55:58Joe Rogan?

  Help me out.

• 56:00Speaker 02

  Totally.

• 56:01Joe Rogan?

  They can't. There's, I mean, it's all theoretical and speculative and no one really knows. And then there's this concept of what took place before the Big Bang. And then there's Sir Roger Penrose's version of it, which is there's been many versions of the Big Bang, expansion, then contraction, and that it's not the beginning, that it's a part of an endless cycle.

• 56:21Speaker 02

  That's what I've, I mean, I've heard from, in India as well, the believer, belief that that was not kind of the beginning. There's been many beginnings and many ends that

• 56:29Joe Rogan?

  That makes more sense.

• 56:30Speaker 02

  we have no idea of.

• 56:31Joe Rogan?

  That makes more sense to me. It makes more sense, because I think the problem with a beginning, we're like, well, what was here originally? We always want to think of things in terms of our own biological limitations. We have a birth and we have a death, so we think that the universe probably

• 56:44Speaker 02

  Everything has a limitation.

• 56:45Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 56:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 56:46Joe Rogan?

  But why? It's there.

• 56:47Speaker 02

  Like time, what is time's limitation? It's existed from who knows when?

• 56:52Joe Rogan?

  Right. It's constant. It's never not been here.

• 56:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 56:56Joe Rogan?

  So the idea that there was nothing before the universe, well, that doesn't even make sense.

• 57:01Speaker 02

  It's funny, when I was doing research for The Bluff, this movie, I went to the Cayman Islands for a couple of days to get an understanding of the history of the islands. And the Caribbean is so interesting, especially Cayman, because it's in the, it's in the middle of these trading routes between Honduras, Cuba, Mexico. So ships, when trading started, is when the Cayman was discovered. The islands were discovered. So when I went down there, I went to the museum and they said, yeah, it was like the seventeen hundreds or eighteen hundreds when the first settlers came. And, you know, it started with family or like people trying to run away or pirates or, you know, just people making pit stops before going to another, another country.

• 57:44Speaker 02

  And they said that that was the first time that there was any history of the island. And I was like, how's that possible? That only when like settlers found that place. And now, I mean Cayman Islands, Cayman Islands.

• 57:57Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 57:58Speaker 02

  But how, like if you think about, there's so many places in the world where people and humans have existed way before we even have an understanding of or are willing to acknowledge, you know, in many cultures, it's different.

• 58:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 58:14Speaker 02

  But.

• 58:15Joe Rogan?

  Well, we just lost the history of it, that's possible too.

• 58:18Speaker 02

  That's what my argument was. I was like, it's, you know, like we have to have lost the history of what happened prior.

• 58:25Joe Rogan?

  There's an entire culture from South America that we don't know who they were. The Olmecs, they, we have some giant carved heads. And we're like, oh, who did that?

• 58:37Speaker 02

  Where did that come from?

• 58:38Joe Rogan?

  They're thousands and thousands of years old. They look African. It's very strange. If you're seeing Olmec heads, oh, they look like this. That's an Olmec head. Like, how nuts is that? Like, that's a replica of these enormous heads that are in, I think, is it Peru?

• 58:56Joe Rogan?

  Luke Caverns, who's been on the podcast.

• 58:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 58:59Joe Rogan?

  He's a really fascinating guy who does a lot of research down there. He, uh, he's been there and documented and he's like, they don't know who these people were. They don't know what their language was. They don't even know what they look like, except for these images. And they don't even know if these images are supposed to be of them, like these statues. They just found, see if you can find some of these heads so you can see like the, the, um, scale.

• 59:24Speaker 02

  So crazy.

• 59:25Joe Rogan?

  So they left these enormous stone heads. They attributed to this one civilization that they call the Olmecs. They just made a name up, but they don't know who the hell these people were. And look at their faces. Like, that's crazy.

• 59:38Speaker 02

  That's huge.

• 59:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 59:40Speaker 02

  And do you know how old these might be?

• 59:43Joe Rogan?

  They don't really know, but I think that, how many thousands of years old do they think they are, Jamie?

• 59:51Joe Rogan?

  Crazy stuff.

• 59:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 59:53Joe Rogan?

  So at least nine hundred B.C. But, you know, what does that mean?

• 59:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 59:59Joe Rogan?

  That's a guess. That's a guess.

• 1:00:01Speaker 02

  But like a long time ago.

• 1:00:03Joe Rogan?

  A long time ago. Well, even the Aztecs, do you know the Aztecs didn't build those temples? They found them.

• 1:00:10Speaker 02

  The Aztecs found that, the Aztec temples?

• 1:00:13Joe Rogan?

  They found them from an unknown previous civilization.

• 1:00:16Speaker 02

  Oh, my God.

• 1:00:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they called those temples the place where the gods were born.

• 1:00:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:00:22Joe Rogan?

  That's what they called them. And they just kind of like cleaned it up.

• 1:00:26Joe Rogan?

  Which kind of makes sense, because you think of like how barbaric the Aztecs were. Like, they did some horrific shit. Like, we were talking about one of the, the temples, I think it was Tenochtitlan. When they consecrated it, um, they killed between twenty and eighty thousand people. They sacrificed them in a period of four days. And so this is like right when the Spanish were first visiting Mexico, thinking about taking over. And this, this guy Diaz, the Spanish chronicler, said it was the fucking craziest thing. They killed eighty thousand people, he said, over a period of four days. Just cut their hearts out and threw their bodies down the stairs. Like nuts. This episode is brought to you by Intuit TurboTax. April 15th is coming fast.

• 1:01:11Joe Rogan?

  There's been so many tax law changes this year, which means you're going to need an expert who has your back. You're in luck. TurboTax now has in-person locations nationwide. Walk into their tech-enabled stores and meet face-to-face with a TurboTax full-service expert who will get your best outcome. Your expert works to get you every doll you deserve while updating you as you go about your day. Head to TurboTax.com to find a store near you. Like, so these are the people that were-

• 1:01:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, you think about like how countries were like conquests happen and like, you know, we're living in the history of so many people's blood and sacrifices.

• 1:01:58Joe Rogan?

  And violence.

• 1:02:00Speaker 02

  And so much violence.

• 1:02:01Joe Rogan?

  Unfathomable amount of violence.

• 1:02:03Speaker 02

  How are humans so capable of that kind of like of violence? Having done a really violent movie right now?

• 1:02:08Joe Rogan?

  Because chimps. Because we're mostly chimp. And I think if you pay attention to chimps, like have you ever seen-

• 1:02:15Speaker 02

  Chimp behavior, yeah.

• 1:02:15Joe Rogan?

  Chimp Nation on Netflix?

• 1:02:17Speaker 02

  No, I haven't.

• 1:02:18Joe Rogan?

  It's fina- fantastic. It's just, it's spectacular because it is a rare, very rare situation where this one particular group of chimpanzees, they were embedded with these scientists for 20 years. So the scientists had very specific rules. Don't get within 20 yards of them. Don't make eye contact with them. Don't have any food with you.

• 1:02:38Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:02:38Joe Rogan?

  And don't interfere. And they're totally accustomed to having people around them. So they behave totally naturally.

• 1:02:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:02:45Joe Rogan?

  And so they wage war. They have all these like crazy social dynamics that they observe.

• 1:02:49Speaker 02

  So they behave like they would in the wild because they're used to these humans.

• 1:02:52Joe Rogan?

  Exactly. And when you watch it, you're like, oh my God, they are a lot like us. They're a lot like us. Just like very primitive, no language, but ultra-violent. Ultra- chimps are ultra-violent. I mean, one of their favorite foods, this guy was telling me, was monkeys. They just love eating monkeys. He goes, "We saw them kill so many monkeys, we couldn't even document it." He goes, "'Cause if it would just be like, every day was like a monkey hunt. They would tear these monkeys apart and eat them alive." It's horrific.

• 1:03:22Speaker 02

  Oh my god.

• 1:03:23Joe Rogan?

  That's, that's our ancestors. So what we are is a combination, like if, if you can.

• 1:03:27Speaker 02

  Well, that explains it.

• 1:03:29Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, this explains it. We're a combination of some higher intelligence that interbred with a savage primate that's curious and created this weird hybrid, this weird thing.

• 1:03:41Speaker 02

  Isn't that's what ancient aliens told me?

• 1:03:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:43Speaker 02

  And I believe it.

• 1:03:44Joe Rogan?

  I think they're right. They're right about that. Have you ever seen Chariots of the Gods?

• 1:03:49Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:03:49Joe Rogan?

  That's the original one. Eric Von Daniken, that was in like the 1970s. It was a, a movie, like a feature movie.

• 1:03:56Speaker 02

  I, I mean, I remember the movie, but I don't remember having.

• 1:03:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. I had lunch with him once. Got a chance to question him about stuff. He's a, like a true believer.

• 1:04:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:04:05Joe Rogan?

  Like a true believer.

• 1:04:06Speaker 02

  What are, what are his beliefs?

• 1:04:07Joe Rogan?

  Well, he believes that everything is from aliens. That aliens came down and aliens taught people how to do things and aliens built all these things. And I'm more in line of they intervened and created what we think of now as humans. And then humans figured out a different path of technology than we're on today. That we are on the path of internal combustion engines, electronics, electricity. And they were probably on some different path of technology, but as far down the path, if not more. And I think they probably had figured out some things that we have yet to figure out.

• 1:04:46Joe Rogan?

  Including like the trans, the, the, the, the transferring and the moving and shipping of enormous stone blocks without heavy machinery. Like, we don't know what they were doing.

• 1:05:00Speaker 02

  Teleportation.

• 1:05:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:00Speaker 02

  I don't know.

• 1:05:01Joe Rogan?

  What, how do they cut them? Like, what do they, what do they, what? If those structures that Filippo Biondi describes under, if that's real, like what was the pyramid then? Was it a machine?

• 1:05:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, how did they do, like, first they created the structure. Like, imagine the foundation and the design that went into it.

• 1:05:20Joe Rogan?

  A half a mile deep into the earth.

• 1:05:23Speaker 02

  Crazy.

• 1:05:24Joe Rogan?

  Like, what is that? What are you doing?

• 1:05:26Speaker 02

  Because I'm saying, I, I don't know if I, like. I just know that we can't explain that quick evolution of humans from Neanderthal to

• 1:05:36Joe Rogan?

  We can't.

• 1:05:37Speaker 02

  And all Highly intelligent.

• 1:05:39Joe Rogan?

  Yes, we can't.

• 1:05:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:05:40Joe Rogan?

  I mean, there's just a lot of people saying, well, we haven't filled in the gaps yet.

• 1:05:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:05:44Joe Rogan?

  We don't really know. But the acceleration of the evolution is so spectacular. Vegans are hilarious. They attribute it to people eating tubers. I had a conversation with a guy, he's like, we're thinking it's probably tubers. Like, what, roots? You mean like bears eat? Shut the fuck up. That is the dumbest explanation. That didn't even make any sense.

• 1:06:00Speaker 02

  I'm vegan.

• 1:06:01Joe Rogan?

  Are you really?

• 1:06:02Speaker 02

  No, I'm joking.

• 1:06:02Joe Rogan?

  Congratulations.

• 1:06:05Joe Rogan?

  There's no way you could be.

• 1:06:06Speaker 02

  No, I just had barbecue.

• 1:06:07Joe Rogan?

  You would already fall asleep.

• 1:06:08Speaker 02

  For breakfast, I had brisket. I was like, I'm here in Austin for two hours.

• 1:06:13Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you have to have barbecue if you come here.

• 1:06:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:06:16Joe Rogan?

  I just think that whatever happened, we don't know. And I would not rule out intervention. And I wouldn't think that an intelligent species from somewhere else, if they did find these very curious primates that may already be working with sticks and rocks and stuff like that, that they wouldn't intervene, because we do it. We're doing it right now. We're doing it right now with animals.

• 1:06:39Speaker 02

  It's human nature to do it.

• 1:06:40Joe Rogan?

  If we went to a planet somewhere and we found some fucking frogs or some weird animals, but nothing big, we might drop a deer off in there and see what happens. You know, we might bring some birds in.

• 1:06:53Speaker 02

  Humans definitely would. We would intervene.

• 1:06:55Joe Rogan?

  They're doing genetic manipulation of animals right now to bring back extinct life. That's how they brought back the dire wolf. This company called Colossal, Colossal Bioware, they, I saw it, I touched it. I went to

• 1:07:09Speaker 02

  Like

• 1:07:09Joe Rogan?

  Yes. I went to the place where they're holding these wolves and I got to, me and my daughter, got to cuddle with a baby dire wolf. They had two semi-adults at the time, I think they were like eight or nine months old.

• 1:07:24Speaker 02

  And they've been extinct since when?

• 1:07:26Joe Rogan?

  Ten thousand years?

• 1:07:27Speaker 02

  Stop it.

• 1:07:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, somewhere in the range of that.

• 1:07:31Speaker 02

  Oh my god.

• 1:07:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, when did dire wolves go extinct? I think they're a part of the megafauna that went extinct during the impact. Because sixty-five percent of all megafauna on Earth, and particularly in North America, went extinct around the same time. Woolly mammoths.

• 1:07:47Speaker 02

  And do we know why?

• 1:07:49Joe Rogan?

  They don't.

• 1:07:49Speaker 02

  Around the same time?

• 1:07:50Joe Rogan?

  There's a lot of hypothesis.

• 1:07:51Speaker 02

  Was there something that happened then?

• 1:07:52Joe Rogan?

  The rational people, not me, but the rational people think it was the Berserker theory. Which means that human beings killed so many mammoths that we wiped them out to extinction.

• 1:08:03Speaker 02

  Believable.

• 1:08:04Joe Rogan?

  But this is with Atal Atals. Like, it doesn't make total sense.

• 1:08:07Speaker 02

  Okay, yeah.

• 1:08:08Joe Rogan?

  It's like, how did you get, there's not even that many people, how'd you do that?

• 1:08:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:08:11Joe Rogan?

  And then there's also stuff like the American lion, which was bigger than the African lion. How do we kill that off with a fucking stick? Like, shut the fuck up.

• 1:08:19Speaker 02

  Something had to have happened.

• 1:08:22Joe Rogan?

  Well, they've found mass grave sites of mammoths, where there's like hundreds of them, dead, all in one place, that seem to have died at the same time. Not only that, some of them have broken legs, it seems to impact some, it seems to indicate some great impact.

• 1:08:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, it had to have been like some, like asteroid or some, something that created that kind of impact immediately.

• 1:08:40Joe Rogan?

  But sixty-five percent of all North American megafauna died at the same time.

• 1:08:45Speaker 02

  That's so crazy.

• 1:08:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, within the time period. And they think, the younger Dryas impact theory people, think like this is not a coincidence, that this coincides with the end of the Ice Age, and also coincides with where the core samples.

• 1:08:59Speaker 02

  Too many coincidences.

• 1:09:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and also the coincides with the fact that these animals were all here at one point in time. They all got wiped out except for very few. There's only a few left. Like, there's the pronghorn antelope, which is a really weird one. It's this prehistoric antelope that lives in North America, and it's different than every other animal here, because it's evolved to get away from cheetahs. Because we used to have cheetahs in North America, so it can run like fifty-five miles. Fucking books! I've seen them in real life, they're really weird looking. They look prehistoric.

• 1:09:34Speaker 02

  But can run.

• 1:09:35Joe Rogan?

  Lie, that's what it looks like. See if you can get a look at its face. Can you see it head on? They're so strange. Like their eyeballs are on the sides of their heads because something was coming at them. Like, you know, fifty-five miles an hour at full clip. And so they're really, really alert. And they have incredible vision. And that's a leftover animal. That's a leftover animal from a time where they were being preyed upon by something that doesn't exist anymore. And that something was wiped out along with the American lion. A bigger lion than the African lion. Lived right here.

• 1:10:11Speaker 02

  Huge, that's crazy. I was filming in Africa recently in Kenya and we, for this Indian movie I'm doing called Varanasi. And we shot with wildebeests. And like, as in like, in the middle of them. I was, me and my co-actor Mahesh were in the middle of these wildebeests that were all around us while they were migrating. It's like the coolest thing I've ever seen, but when you see their faces and for how many years versions of them have existed, you know, you feel the gravity when you

• 1:10:45Speaker 02

  see these animals in the wild.

• 1:10:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:47Speaker 02

  It's crazy.

• 1:10:48Joe Rogan?

  It's so much different than a zoo, right?

• 1:10:50Speaker 02

  Oh, completely.

• 1:10:51Joe Rogan?

  Because you're like, oh, they've always been here like this.

• 1:10:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, this is their home.

• 1:10:54Joe Rogan?

  This is what they do.

• 1:10:55Speaker 02

  We're in it. You feel a sense of like, stay in your Jeep.

• 1:11:00Joe Rogan?

  Well, I think we're numb to it because we watch it on film and so that we get sort of desensitized and normalized to this idea of wildlife. Oh, there's the lion sneaking up on the wildebeest, how cool.

• 1:11:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:11:11Joe Rogan?

  But when you're there and you see a lion, you see a wildebeest, like, this is fucking crazy. Like, this is all day long, every day, these life forms competing to try to exist and stay alive. And there's this weird balance where all of them, you know.

• 1:11:24Speaker 02

  They still exist.

• 1:11:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:25Speaker 02

  They can, there'll be wildebeest right there and there'll be a lion right here who's eaten. So they're hanging out together, the wildebeest knows that he's eaten, he's not coming after us. And they exist. But at the same time, there, you know, during hunting season, you see the hunt happen, and I saw a hunt happen and that's, that's crazy that that's their life.

• 1:11:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:46Speaker 02

  Survival.

• 1:11:46Joe Rogan?

  With their face, they kill things with their face.

• 1:11:49Speaker 02

  Like literally, you're

• 1:11:51Joe Rogan?

  Well, there's a really extraordinary island in Africa where the river changed courses and it left this this one pack of lions on this one island that only has water buffalo on it. And so these lions became enormous and the female lions are as big as male lions everywhere else and the male lions are way bigger than they are anywhere else. I think there's the documentaries, I think it's called relentless enemies. But it's so, because they look like these jacked bodybuilder lions.

• 1:12:20Speaker 02

  Those water buffalos are huge.

• 1:12:23Joe Rogan?

  Huge and hyper aggressive.

• 1:12:25Speaker 02

  I had one staring at me, like we were in Kenya. I'm like the video villagers and they were filming and it's far away, but it just turned his head and just looked at me and then just kept looking at me and I swear I had to like get up and get out of its view because it just kept staring. I was like, it's coming at me.

• 1:12:42Joe Rogan?

  They will come at you.

• 1:12:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, for sure.

• 1:12:44Joe Rogan?

  They kill people all the time.

• 1:12:44Speaker 02

  The rangers told us, they were like, oh, I think he's engaged with you maybe. Maybe get out of here, get into your car.

• 1:12:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, there's that poor lady from who, she was a video editor on the Game of Thrones and she went to do a safari there and it pulled, one, one of the lions pulled her out of her car.

• 1:13:02Speaker 02

  Out of her car?

• 1:13:03Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, she rolled the window down or someone rolled the window down and a female lion just snatched her out of the car and killed her.

• 1:13:11Speaker 02

  Oh my god.

• 1:13:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:13:14Speaker 02

  You have to listen to your rangers when you're in these situations.

• 1:13:18Joe Rogan?

  Exactly, yeah. I mean, she wanted a better picture or something. I don't know what the circumstances.

• 1:13:22Speaker 02

  That's the shit that gets people into trouble.

• 1:13:23Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:13:24Speaker 02

  Like there was this, one of our rangers was telling us a story that they have, we were in Masai Mara and they were like, they have open jeeps and you know, you have food that they keep really hidden so that the animals can't smell it under your seats and stuff. And he was telling a story about this influencer, he's driving and you know, there's a pack of lions, lions just eaten, so he's sleeping. And this influencer who puts his hand outside to try and touch the lion's head and got it on video and survived to tell the story. And then he was banned and the ranger was like fired from his job and all of that happened, but for the image, can you imagine?

• 1:14:03Joe Rogan?

  What a fucking idiot. All for the gram.

• 1:14:07Speaker 02

  My gosh, that was crazy, yeah.

• 1:14:09Joe Rogan?

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• 1:14:52Joe Rogan?

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• 1:15:34Joe Rogan?

  I mean, I don't want anything bad to happen to anybody, but when someone does something like that and does get killed, it's probably better. Educationally for the human race, like don't...

• 1:15:44Speaker 02

  But is it though, or are we, are we really learning from other people and their examples?

• 1:15:49Joe Rogan?

  Some people aren't learning shit.

• 1:15:50Speaker 02

  Nobody's learning shit. We're just trying to put the best, best versions of ourselves on the ground. Like, that's what the...

• 1:15:57Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:57Speaker 02

  That's what's happening right now. It's whether it's true or not.

• 1:16:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Well, are we learning? Yeah, it's a good question.

• 1:16:04Speaker 02

  I don't know. I mean, I think we are also so desensitized to, there's so much information that comes your way and misinformation now. Where being able to discern what's real and what's not now, that's hard as well.

• 1:16:16Joe Rogan?

  Oh, it's harder than it's ever been.

• 1:16:17Speaker 02

  Totally. And then if you do watch something and you're like, I'm gonna implement in my life. We do it for a very short duration, very few of us follow through with that, right? Like you're watching a reel or somebody says something and you're like, that's really cool. Are we going to pull on that thread and follow through and do something about it or learn from it? I don't know. I feel like we've lost a lot of that, um, space. Where we had the time or the desire to want to, you know, fulfill ourselves versus just that with so much coming at you.

• 1:16:54Joe Rogan?

  Well, I think collectively as a society, I think we learn and then we forget and then we have to relearn again.

• 1:17:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:17:00Joe Rogan?

  You know, that's, that's.

• 1:17:01Speaker 02

  But the attention span now where, you know, I remember when I was growing up, like, just having the languidity of time, right? In a, in a, in a very different way. And this is like, say thirty years ago, thirty, thirty-five years ago of, um, you know, reading a book, music playing, hanging out with your parents or your friends without being rushed. Just rushed, you know, I, I don't remember feeling as rushed as I do now in the last twenty years. When I was growing up, like there was time for stuff.

• 1:17:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Well, well, certainly the internet has accelerated that. You know, and certainly people's attention spans are at least pulled in the direction of short attention span content. But at the same time, podcasts have emerged, which is interesting.

• 1:17:56Speaker 02

  It's so interesting. Like, I was talking about this to a friend of mine, like, people who have no time or interest in wanting to commit to like, say, a movie or some, will watch or listen to like a podcast for

• 1:18:08Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:09Speaker 02

  two or three hours. And for someone like me who, you know, like, I've been an actor for most of my life. My interface with people would be, you know, an interview. Say, for example, people who knew me or audiences that wanted to know about me would be an interview where, you know, the highlights are really what you read, the clickbait lines are really what you read, and you form a relationship with whoever this public person is based on those few lines versus this format where you're just chatting for a few hours and you have the ability to really be yourself and be seen as yourself, which is why I think people really love podcasts.

• 1:18:49Joe Rogan?

  Well, I think it's much more illuminating in terms of if you want to like find out who a person really is.

• 1:18:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:18:54Joe Rogan?

  Because you can't really hide for three hours, like, that's who you are. And I think for most people, that's scary, right? And so what they like about those fake shows, like, good morning, America, or whatever it is, you know what I mean? Like, you're sitting down, you know, the guy's got a piece of paper, so he's got a few questions he's gonna ask you, and they're all gonna be like very surface, very jovial, what's it like to be married, you know, what's it like to do this, what's it like to do that, oh, so you had a baby, congratulations, that kind of shit, and then you're out of there. It's 10 minutes, and you're like, oh, that went well, and then nobody knows anything about you.

• 1:19:29Speaker 02

  It's true that you're just basically known by the top four questions that everybody asks you, so it's like the same four questions that everybody asks.

• 1:19:36Joe Rogan?

  Right. And what was it like to work with this person? What was she like in person? What was he like?

• 1:19:42Speaker 02

  For me, mostly, it's like a lot about my family. Like, it's like that my identity starts there, and then everything else comes after.

• 1:19:50Joe Rogan?

  Well, you're fascinating in that you you've done movies in two different cultures. So like, I wanted to ask you about that. Like, what is the Bollywood scene like? Because I wasn't even aware of it until like 20 years ago. I didn't know that like Bollywood is like this enormous, like, the amount of films that are produced in India is kind of crazy.

• 1:20:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:20:11Joe Rogan?

  It's a big business.

• 1:20:13Speaker 02

  Huge.

• 1:20:13Joe Rogan?

  Huge.

• 1:20:14Speaker 02

  Hundred and something years of Indian cinema, just recently. Um, so a very, very old industry. Um, we started with silent movies and have worked our way now to. And that's not just Bollywood. I'll break that down in a second. Because India is so diverse and we have so many different languages. Again, excuse me, I didn't know the exact number. But um, we have local industries that make movies in those languages. So Bollywood is um Bombay. It comes from Bombay. I think that's why it was coined that name from Hollywood. But but the Bombay movie industry, again, it was not us that did that. It was a name that was given to us. I don't know by who.

• 1:20:55Speaker 02

  But Bollywood is the Hindi language industry, which exists in Mumbai, um, which is like LA. It's huge. It's, you know, we make thousands and thousands of movies. But then there's also Telugu, Tamil, um, Punjabi, Malayalam, Marathi, um, Bhojpuri. These are all robust industries that are localized within every state that also exists. So cumulatively, we make thousands and thousands of movies a year. But it's catered to very, very different audiences within the diversity of India.

• 1:21:27Joe Rogan?

  Wow. And how many people have come from India like you and become stars in Western movies?

• 1:21:35Speaker 02

  I think there have been a few before me, you know, that have uh done work.

• 1:21:38Joe Rogan?

  The first one I heard of. So no one's made it to me yet.

• 1:21:43Speaker 02

  Well, thank you. Um, yes, I think that it's been few and far in between. I think America is a really hard country to break into, uh, to be relevant in. It's uh tough. And also like, I think Hollywood um controls a large part of the global entertainment business. So as an actor from anywhere in the world, if you wanna break into the English language, global entertainment, Hollywood system, um, it's not easy to to do that. Uh, you know, culturally, it's different. Language is different. Jokes are different. Um, so that's a tough transition, but it's also like for me, I I really I I went to high school.

• 1:22:26Speaker 02

  Oh, by the way, you went to Newton and I went to Newton, too.

• 1:22:29Joe Rogan?

  Did you really?

• 1:22:30Speaker 02

  I went to Newton North, you went to Newton South.

• 1:22:31Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:32Speaker 02

  How crazy is that?

• 1:22:33Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy.

• 1:22:34Speaker 02

  Yes, I was in I was in high school in the States and I, you know, so it wasn't like alien to me. It's not like I was in India and I was like, I want to go to America and start working there. I really wanted to see what it would be like if I came down here. Would there be an opportunity for someone like me to, you know, be able to create an impact? Many years later, I feel like, you know, I'm on my way there. But there have been so many actors whose shoulders I've stood on. So Indian, like Indian casting in English language entertainment, whether it was Hollywood or, you know, British entertainment, wherever, was usually by us seen as, you know, a diversity check.

• 1:23:19Speaker 02

  So it was mostly a stereotypical actor or a stereotypical character with an actor having to speak in the accent or having to like do the

• 1:23:28Joe Rogan?

  Work at Seven Eleven.

• 1:23:29Speaker 02

  Be a little bit more Indian. What does that even mean?

• 1:23:32Joe Rogan?

  Someone tell you that?

• 1:23:33Speaker 02

  I was told in an audition, I think we needed the character to be a little bit more Indian. And I just like didn't even understand. There's so many versions of that, but I think what the like this person meant was have a little bit more of the accent.

• 1:23:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, be a caricature.

• 1:23:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, be the caricature, which was really tough to break out of. So, you know, at a time when it was only that work that existed in Hollywood, like those are the actors whose shoulders I stand on, like those were the ones that went in and did that work because that was all that was available and, you know, tried to break through. Especially from like India, for example, Aishwarya Rai, Amitabh Bachchan, Irfan Khan. There have been actors that have come in, done work and, you know, left an amazing mark. But I moved here, I live here now, and, you know, I'm consistently working here. I think that also may have been a part of why you've heard of me.

• 1:24:30Joe Rogan?

  Yes, I'm sure. Well, I've seen you interviewed too, which is why I thought you were interesting.

• 1:24:35Speaker 02

  Thank you, appreciate that.

• 1:24:37Joe Rogan?

  But it's

• 1:24:38Speaker 02

  I think you're very interesting. I think you're Um, knowledge of the world is fascinating to me.

• 1:24:44Joe Rogan?

  Well, um, it's all accidental.

• 1:24:47Speaker 02

  Cool. How cool is that?

• 1:24:48Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's cool.

• 1:24:49Speaker 02

  That's amazing.

• 1:24:50Joe Rogan?

  I started this thing out with my friend Brian and a laptop. We were just talking shit. We just thought it'd be fun to like do like a little internet thing.

• 1:25:00Speaker 02

  Wow, how inspiring.

• 1:25:01Joe Rogan?

  And that was sixteen years ago.

• 1:25:03Speaker 02

  You're someone who's pivoted your career so many times too, though, you know?

• 1:25:07Joe Rogan?

  Sort of, but all, it's all the same thing in that I've only just done things I'm interested in. Other than Fear Factor. That was just a job.

• 1:25:15Speaker 02

  You know, I also hosted Fear Factor.

• 1:25:17Joe Rogan?

  Did you? No, shut up.

• 1:25:19Speaker 02

  For one year.

• 1:25:20Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 1:25:20Speaker 02

  I did.

• 1:25:21Joe Rogan?

  Where?

• 1:25:21Speaker 02

  In Brazil, in India.

• 1:25:23Joe Rogan?

  Shut the fuck up. That's crazy.

• 1:25:25Speaker 02

  And we shot it in Brazil, in Rio.

• 1:25:27Joe Rogan?

  Wow, that's not, where did it end?

• 1:25:30Speaker 02

  Random things in common.

• 1:25:32Joe Rogan?

  That is crazy. That's a crazy thing in common. I need to see that. Let me see that. Find a clip. This is hilarious. What language did you do it in?

• 1:25:40Speaker 02

  Hindi.

• 1:25:40Joe Rogan?

  Wow, and it was in Rio, huh?

• 1:25:43Speaker 02

  We shot it in Rio. We had a big budget that year.

• 1:25:48Speaker 02

  So we were all flown out to Brazil.

• 1:25:51Joe Rogan?

  I wonder how many versions of Fear Factor there were.

• 1:25:53Speaker 02

  I mean, they're, they're all over the world.

• 1:25:55Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 1:25:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, Fear Factor used to exist all over. I don't know anymore, but back in the day.

• 1:26:00Joe Rogan?

  Once I stopped doing it, I stopped paying attention. I was like, I'm out.

• 1:26:03Speaker 02

  Me too.

• 1:26:03Joe Rogan?

  So I knew Ludacris took it over at one point in time, and now Johnny Knoxville's doing it? That's all I knew. I had no idea that there was a bunch of different language versions of it.

• 1:26:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:26:13Joe Rogan?

  You know, it originally came from a Holland show called Now or Neverland.

• 1:26:17Speaker 02

  It's a crazy show.

• 1:26:18Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it was, uh, it was, it was way more simple. And then when it got brought to America, they decided to call it Fear Factor.

• 1:26:26Speaker 02

  The whole eating thing, we didn't take that back to India.

• 1:26:29Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 1:26:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, we didn't do the eating. Like, because you, you never know people are vegetarian. In India, it's a big part of our culture, where a lot of people religiously are vegetarian or not. I think maybe that's the reason, but there was not a lot of like, eat the worms and stuff, which I was very grateful for. It was a lot more, you know, cliff and falling off the cliff. And I remember there was this one, which was crazy. This sixteen wheeler, which was driving at sixty miles an hour. And everyone had to take their vehicle underneath it and come out, underneath it and come out.

• 1:27:03Joe Rogan?

  Yikes.

• 1:27:03Speaker 02

  It was insane.

• 1:27:04Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy.

• 1:27:05Speaker 02

  I didn't have to do it, which was great, because I was just hosting.

• 1:27:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, we did a lot of stuff where I was like, we barely got through that without killing somebody.

• 1:27:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, and the death waivers. Like, everyone had to sign a death waiver.

• 1:27:17Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:27:18Speaker 02

  I was like, why would you do a show where you have to sign a death waiver?

• 1:27:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and you can only win like fifty thousand dollars, and you might not win. You're probably not gonna win. There's a bunch of other people on the show. And you could very easily get hurt.

• 1:27:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:27:31Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but people wanna be famous. They wanna be on TV. Like, I wanna be on TV. Yeah, once it became popular and successful, it was really easy to get people to do it, too. Everybody wanted to sign up.

• 1:27:43Speaker 02

  But, I mean, there are like protective measures, obviously, but it's...

• 1:27:47Joe Rogan?

  A little. We made them ride bulls.

• 1:27:50Speaker 02

  We did, too. We put people on bulls.

• 1:27:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:54Speaker 02

  I was, and there were a few that were like, no, I'm not doing this, I'm out.

• 1:27:58Joe Rogan?

  I told people not to do it. When I was talking to them off-camera, I said, don't do it. I wouldn't do it. Don't do it.

• 1:28:04Speaker 02

  I would never do it.

• 1:28:04Joe Rogan?

  No way.

• 1:28:06Speaker 02

  But people did it.

• 1:28:07Joe Rogan?

  Look at you!

• 1:28:10Joe Rogan?

  What year was this?

• 1:28:12Speaker 02

  Please, I can't even remember.

• 1:28:13Joe Rogan?

  It looks like a Fear Factor scene.

• 1:28:16Speaker 02

  It is. I was on a helicopter.

• 1:28:17Joe Rogan?

  So, do you know what year this was?

• 1:28:19Speaker 02

  Oh, I can't. Does it say there?

• 1:28:21Joe Rogan?

  No, it just didn't say. I can check, but... Wow, Rio. I've been to that.

• 1:28:25Speaker 02

  I stood outside the helicopter as well. It was some fun stuff.

• 1:28:30Joe Rogan?

  Wow, that's crazy. That is so funny. It's just like Fear Factor, it's the same thing.

• 1:28:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's totally Fear Factor.

• 1:28:42Joe Rogan?

  So what did you guys do for the second stunt if you didn't do a gross thing? You just did a second scary thing?

• 1:28:46Speaker 02

  We did like scary things, mostly.

• 1:28:48Joe Rogan?

  Oh, wow. Well, it's probably better, honestly.

• 1:28:51Speaker 02

  I mean, there were gross things, too. Like, there's Brazilian, you know, red-eyed, deviled rats that were put all over you with like tongue and eyeballs and stuff, but you didn't have to consume it.

• 1:29:03Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:29:03Speaker 02

  It was on you.

• 1:29:05Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:05Speaker 02

  You didn't have to eat it.

• 1:29:06Joe Rogan?

  A lot of the consuming it was psychological.

• 1:29:10Joe Rogan?

  You get, you get really accustomed to it and then it's like nothing.

• 1:29:13Speaker 02

  I mean, listen, people have eaten crazy things through history, right?

• 1:29:18Joe Rogan?

  Just to stay alive.

• 1:29:19Speaker 02

  To stay alive.

• 1:29:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:20Speaker 02

  And like if we take our mind out of like, oh my gosh, this is gross, then it's not.

• 1:29:27Joe Rogan?

  Well, the thing is, a lot of what we were serving as gross was some people's food. Like balut, like my friends from Filipino friends, they were like, bro, I eat that all the time. Like, that's crazy. That would have been no problem.

• 1:29:40Speaker 04

  This is a current, I heard a more updated season.

• 1:29:42Joe Rogan?

  What? Oh, my God.

• 1:29:45Speaker 02

  I'm telling you, it's crazy.

• 1:29:46Joe Rogan?

  Lions in your, what if that thing pops open? And you gotta roll that thing around with lions there?

• 1:29:50Speaker 04

  That's great.

• 1:29:51Joe Rogan?

  Oh, the lions are duking it out with each other? Fuck that. That's crazy.

• 1:29:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, like I went to, I recently was on Fallon and there was some bluffing game that we were doing because the movie's called A Bluff. And, um, you know, I said to Jimmy, I was like, I eat worms. And he was like, no way, no way. You don't eat worms, but these worms are a delicacy in Zimbabwe. And I was introduced to them.

• 1:30:20Speaker 02

  I don't know exactly the history, but I was told during segregation, you know, people, black people were put or in areas where that weren't very fertile. You couldn't really grow your crops and, you know, your animals and they were.

• 1:30:36Speaker 02

  So this was a way of like protein. They're very, these are these fat caterpillars, high in protein, and they're made in a curry. And when you actually eat them, it's like chicken.

• 1:30:45Joe Rogan?

  Mmm.

• 1:30:46Speaker 02

  I'm telling you, it's like it was psychological, but.

• 1:30:49Joe Rogan?

  Well, you know cicadas?

• 1:30:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:30:51Joe Rogan?

  Those things that come out. People eat them here all the time. They bake them.

• 1:30:54Speaker 02

  Fried, baked.

• 1:30:55Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and apparently they're delicious.

• 1:30:58Speaker 02

  I haven't had one of those, but I.

• 1:30:59Joe Rogan?

  I haven't either.

• 1:31:00Speaker 02

  I actually did when I was in ninth grade.

• 1:31:02Joe Rogan?

  That's what it looks like?

• 1:31:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:31:03Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy.

• 1:31:04Speaker 02

  But look at like, they're made out of, they're made into a curry.

• 1:31:08Joe Rogan?

  I made a, I ate, I'm not made, I ate a tomato hornworm on Fear Factor. I had a bunch of things when I was on the show.

• 1:31:15Speaker 02

  I was like, there's nothing going into my mouth in Fear Factor.

• 1:31:18Joe Rogan?

  I ate a sheep's eye. Ball in the first episode because the first episode I felt bad that the people were on the show.

• 1:31:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, so you were like, I'm gonna.

• 1:31:27Joe Rogan?

  I'll eat it too, alright, and they didn't show me eating it, but I'm like, I'm gonna eat it cuz you guys have to eat it. And then I ate a roach to try to convince a lady that she could eat a roach. I ate worms, I ate an Iraqi cave spider, I ate.

• 1:31:42Speaker 02

  What was the spider like?

• 1:31:43Joe Rogan?

  Just chewy.

• 1:31:44Speaker 02

  But was it?

• 1:31:45Joe Rogan?

  The taste is not bad.

• 1:31:46Speaker 02

  Was it alive when you ate it?

• 1:31:47Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, for the first couple of seconds.

• 1:31:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, um, yeah, the all the things that I ate were alive, other than the eyeball.

• 1:31:59Joe Rogan?

  The the roach, the roach was alive, all those things were alive, yeah.

• 1:32:04Speaker 02

  I put a cricket and a live cricket in my mouth.

• 1:32:06Joe Rogan?

  That's the Iraqi cave spider.

• 1:32:07Speaker 02

  How do you put that in your mouth?

• 1:32:09Joe Rogan?

  Like this.

• 1:32:09Speaker 02

  Look at those sides.

• 1:32:10Joe Rogan?

  You make sure you don't get those pinchers cuz those.

• 1:32:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Yep, wasn't that bad, I'm telling you, it's psychological.

• 1:32:19Speaker 02

  You gotta get the body in and not the pinchers, the pinchers have to stay out.

• 1:32:23Joe Rogan?

  To hold on to the body.

• 1:32:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's the trick.

• 1:32:27Joe Rogan?

  Shut the rest of it, like just that, yeah, people freaking out, but I'm telling you, it's all psychological.

• 1:32:32Speaker 02

  It for sure is.

• 1:32:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that was that was in Vegas. Everybody was playing roulette. Yeah, no, um, but it's not that bad, it's just in your head.

• 1:32:45Speaker 02

  It is psychological.

• 1:32:46Joe Rogan?

  The actual flavor of it is, it's not gross.

• 1:32:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's not.

• 1:32:49Joe Rogan?

  The tomato hornworm was kinda nasty.

• 1:32:51Speaker 02

  I mean, if you if if you're someone who's not vegetarian, it's like, you just have to get the.

• 1:32:57Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:57Speaker 02

  It's the psychology of it.

• 1:32:58Joe Rogan?

  Right, exactly, yeah, we made people eat an entire ostrich egg, that was disgusting cuz the volume, like you're eating.

• 1:33:06Speaker 02

  Is it?

• 1:33:06Joe Rogan?

  An egg that's that big.

• 1:33:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, is it like really fatty, like fatty?

• 1:33:10Joe Rogan?

  It's raw, you're eating it raw, they just cut the top off of the egg and you have to drink it, you have to drink this gigantic. White and yolk.

• 1:33:21Speaker 02

  Already, my brisket's coming.

• 1:33:25Speaker 02

  The barbecue.

• 1:33:27Joe Rogan?

  But it's so oddly compelling. It's oddly compelling watching people eat disgusting things and struggling. Yeah, there's the ostrich egg. That's it. Look.

• 1:33:35Speaker 02

  Enjoy the show.

• 1:33:36Joe Rogan?

  That lady had to drink that whole egg.

• 1:33:38Speaker 02

  Oh, my God, did she puke?

• 1:33:40Joe Rogan?

  Uh, you gotta hold it down and then you can puke after you're done.

• 1:33:44Speaker 02

  But if you puke in the middle of it, you're disqualified.

• 1:33:46Joe Rogan?

  Yes, they get rid of you. That's a wrap. If you puke in the middle of it.

• 1:33:50Speaker 02

  I would not be able to do the American version.

• 1:33:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it was gross.

• 1:33:54Speaker 02

  Okay, but not.

• 1:33:54Joe Rogan?

  It was gross, but it also made me totally desensitized to throw up.

• 1:33:59Speaker 02

  That's a good talent to have.

• 1:34:01Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, like you could throw up right in front of me.

• 1:34:03Speaker 02

  Especially as like a dad.

• 1:34:04Joe Rogan?

  Exactly. Yeah, well, that I think being a dad will like get you like.

• 1:34:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, desensitize you to everything.

• 1:34:10Joe Rogan?

  All kinds of things like that, but one time, uh, it's so like I'm completely distilled to this day. Completely desensitized to vomit. So one time my wife was, uh, she came home from the gym and she was on her way home from the gym. She stopped and got wheatgrass juice and I just didn't agree with her and she threw up in her car and she was crying. She's like, I threw up. It's my, my center console. How am I gonna clean? I go, I'll clean it. I'm just so used to throw up. It was like no big deal.

• 1:34:35Speaker 02

  Your trauma from the show?

• 1:34:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, like it doesn't, but when I was young, like in high school, I remember someone threw up in the hallway. I would be like, bleh, like I couldn't, I couldn't help myself. I'd start gagging. That's a natural instinct because the idea is that we developed that because if someone's throwing up, it means they ate something bad and you probably ate that to get it out of you right away. And so that's why you start throwing up and I've killed that.

• 1:35:00Speaker 02

  I have just trauma from, you know, tequila.

• 1:35:06Joe Rogan?

  Well, I watched so many people throw up.

• 1:35:08Speaker 02

  And throw up. Me too, man. I'm not going in there with a dishcloth like, no. Wow. Well, from your show, for sure. You, you did it for so long.

• 1:35:19Joe Rogan?

  You get very desensitized.

• 1:35:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, for sure.

• 1:35:21Joe Rogan?

  But you get, I'm desensitized to injuries too, like, um, because of, uh, UFC.

• 1:35:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, for sure.

• 1:35:27Joe Rogan?

  People that get cut and people that get beat up. It's like normal to me. I'm so accustomed to seeing that. It's weird.

• 1:35:34Speaker 02

  I, I mean, I kind of feel like that about stunts in movies, like.

• 1:35:41Speaker 02

  You know, nobody's supposed to get hurt. It's a movie. You're not, nobody's supposed to get hurt. But like, the little cuts and bruises and the, like, the end of day. We were doing this for 10 to 11 hours, multiple takes, all day. You're, and in between shots, you're rehearsing it. So I have like, so many scars on my body from my filmographies on, on my body.

• 1:36:03Joe Rogan?

  Do you look forward to, do you like those things? You look down?

• 1:36:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, I like a good story. Yeah. I feel like it's like a medal. I, I have a good story.

• 1:36:10Joe Rogan?

  As long as they're minor.

• 1:36:11Speaker 02

  Yes, minor.

• 1:36:11Joe Rogan?

  Nothing crazy.

• 1:36:12Speaker 02

  Always, you aim for it to be minor.

• 1:36:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:15Speaker 02

  That's the ambition.

• 1:36:17Joe Rogan?

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• 1:37:02Joe Rogan?

  Chime is a fintech, not a bank, banking services and Chime card, provided by Chime's bank partners. Terms and limits apply. Go to chime.com/disclosures for more details. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. If you've thought about trying therapy with our long-term partner, BetterHelp, insurance options may now be available nationwide with an average copay for eligible members of just $23 per session. And with World Mental Health Day on the 10th, now's the perfect time to give it a try. In fact, don't even wait until the 10th, because all that stress you feel, it's not waiting around. So instead of letting it build up, sign up for a therapy session and unload at any time,

• 1:37:47Joe Rogan?

  not just on World Mental Health Day. If you've been waiting to start therapy, BetterHelp works with more than 125 health plan networks and eligible members have an average copay of just $23 per session with insurance. Don't have insurance or live outside of the United States? You can still get 10% off your first month. Visit betterhelp.com to explore your payment options. That's better H E L P dot com. Well, when you're doing a fight scene, like I said, I was kind of blown away by some of the fight scenes in the block because I'm looking, I'm like, this is like insane amount of choreography, a lot of possibilities of things going wrong.

• 1:38:28Joe Rogan?

  There's kicks and punches and axes and swords and it's like, you gotta get banged up. There's no way you're doing that and not getting banged up.

• 1:38:36Speaker 02

  And it was also like a dramatic performance along with it. I had to do a lot of it myself because you know, you need the face and the camera to feel the horror of what's happening.

• 1:38:47Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:38:48Speaker 02

  So I mean, of course, my stunt doubles did like a few dangerous shots for sure and were always around to kind of help. But there was this first scene, which is the house invasion where these two guys come and that was brutal because I did not have shoes on and I had a sleeveless outfit and the whole home was made out of wood and splinters. I had splinters everywhere. I had bruises and cuts everywhere because it was such a brutal like getting dragged and thrown kind of scene.

• 1:39:20Joe Rogan?

  She's just getting constantly bruised.

• 1:39:22Speaker 02

  Yes, I would try to sit in a magnesium bath after when I would go back home and that's when you feel all the cuts. So like, the fucking salt, where did this one on my thigh come from? Fuck.

• 1:39:36Joe Rogan?

  There's a scene, I don't want to give too much of the movie away, but there's a scene where you kill a man with a conch shell.

• 1:39:40Speaker 02

  Yeah. So good. Came unbrass knuckles. Island brass knuckles.

• 1:39:47Joe Rogan?

  But it's so nuts, like the splattering and your anger and it's like, oof. It's intense.

• 1:39:58Speaker 04

  I'm not showing it on this film, I guess.

• 1:39:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. It's, yeah. What was that like to film, to find that inside of you? Did you have to think like, what would I do if someone was trying to harm my family?

• 1:40:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, somebody came after my kid, like, what am I capable of? I'd fucking rip your head off, you know, like, it's that. I, I was a new mom at that time when I was filming this movie and I was very, very aware of that feeling because our daughter had a, you know, she had an intense entry into the world. She was in the NICU for almost three months. And so me and my husband both are very protective of her. And when this movie came across my desk, I was just like, man, I understand that feeling for the first time in my life, honestly. That what is a parent capable of doing if somebody came after your kid?

• 1:40:53Speaker 02

  Like, imagine you're alone at home at night and you see intruders and you have your kid at home. Like, what the fuck would you do? You would definitely put yourself, you know, and do whatever you could to make sure that your kid's fine. And it was just that primal e- energy that was my north star through this whole movie.

• 1:41:14Joe Rogan?

  My friend Jim Brewer said it passed after he had kids. He goes, once I had kids, then I understood murder.

• 1:41:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:41:24Joe Rogan?

  He goes, because the feeling of someone try, like, normally you'd be like, why, what would I need to feel to murder somebody? Like, why would I murder?

• 1:41:34Speaker 02

  Like, why would a human being ever?

• 1:41:36Joe Rogan?

  He goes, but the feeling of someone trying to harm my kids, he goes, oh, yeah, I get it. He goes, I get murdered now. I get it. Like, it's in, it's in there. It's just like a door, you just, ah, open it up.

• 1:41:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, easy.

• 1:41:51Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, easy.

• 1:41:52Speaker 02

  Access that. My mom, when I was a teenager and I don't know how she raised me, um, but like, I was a tough teenager. Like, if I, whatever you wanted me to do, I would do the opposite. Just no, and my mom would be like, come back home at ten, I would come home at twelve. Um, just cuz. So she used to say to me, she's like, you'll see when you have kids, how you feel, what worry actually feels like. I mean, my daughter's four and I'm worried. Like, I cannot, my husband makes so much fun of me that when I'm not in town, I don't know, and working parents can talk through this, when I'm not in town, like, I'll surround our daughter with, like, multiple people. Nick's definitely around, but the grandparents will be around, like,

• 1:42:34Speaker 02

  there'll be a nanny that'll be around. There'll be like multiple people around her, just so that I can spy on her.

• 1:42:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:40Speaker 02

  Like, I know what she's doing all day.

• 1:42:42Joe Rogan?

  Well, so so you could feel relaxed.

• 1:42:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, so you you're traveling and you're like, okay, my kid's fine and I can go to work. I don't know, my parents were both working parents and like, I mean, this was at a time where everything was so analog. I used to come back home when the lights turned on on the streets. My parents didn't know where I was.

• 1:43:00Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:43:00Speaker 02

  They had no idea. They were like, yeah, you're going out to your friends after school. Come back when the streetlights come on. That was, that used to be my thing.

• 1:43:08Joe Rogan?

  Most people.

• 1:43:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:43:10Joe Rogan?

  And during earlier generations, I was just reading this thing about Generation X, where it was talking about how Generation X is some of the most resilient people because they weren't protected. They, they just left. They were latchkey kids. They had a key to their house, they got a home from school, they figured it out, their parents were working.

• 1:43:30Speaker 02

  So crazy.

• 1:43:31Joe Rogan?

  It's nuts, if you think about it, like, but people just got accustomed to it.

• 1:43:34Speaker 02

  I cannot imagine it, but that was my normal. I I remember that because when parents were working, I used to come back home and somebody would be with me and I'd have lunch, I'd go out to my friend's house, like, my mom, my parents didn't know.

• 1:43:45Joe Rogan?

  I was doing that when I was seven. When I was seven, I would come home.

• 1:43:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, me too, around like.

• 1:43:50Joe Rogan?

  No one was home, come home from school.

• 1:43:52Speaker 02

  That's wild.

• 1:43:53Joe Rogan?

  It was crazy. You stop and think about it now. It's so strange. It's so strange.

• 1:43:58Speaker 02

  Plus, the world was. I feel like a little bit more different than.

• 1:44:02Joe Rogan?

  I bet it wasn't.

• 1:44:04Speaker 02

  You don't think so?

• 1:44:04Joe Rogan?

  No, I think creeps have always been around. I think psychos and creeps and murderers and perverts.

• 1:44:09Speaker 02

  Do we know about it more now?

• 1:44:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:44:11Speaker 02

  Were we more, you know, oblivious and?

• 1:44:15Joe Rogan?

  Now they're organized and they're online and they're in chat groups and they're on the dark web exchanging information.

• 1:44:20Speaker 02

  And we are hearing and reading all of the stories online and I think back in the day when, you know, there was a certain obliviousness to, like, you know, it was blissful to be ignorant a little bit. We didn't know, you know, all you read was the newspaper, the news and.

• 1:44:36Joe Rogan?

  We had to find out the hard way, unfortunately.

• 1:44:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:44:38Joe Rogan?

  And so when you did find out about something, it was like this shock to your system.

• 1:44:43Speaker 02

  And now look how desensitized we are. We'll read something about something horrific that's happened and then go back to life.

• 1:44:50Joe Rogan?

  Well, we're very, we're especially desensitized to things that don't seem to affect us right now. You know, like, like this Iran war, like unless you know someone who's serving over there, unless you're over there, it's abstract. It doesn't feel, you know, you read about in the news like, oh, this isn't good, but it's not, it's unless it's affecting you personally.

• 1:45:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, me, I, you know, know so many people in that part of the world that are affected and I, I fly via Dubai every two months, literally every month, you know, so, like, I just think that conflict everywhere in the world is,

• 1:45:34Speaker 02

  it's just so hard to wrap your head around that how many active conflicts exist.

• 1:45:41Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:45:41Speaker 02

  At the same time, right now.

• 1:45:43Joe Rogan?

  And that we're still doing it.

• 1:45:44Speaker 02

  And we continue to live life.

• 1:45:47Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's just, if you think about intelligence, like human intelligence and that as, technology improves and education improves, all these things would, you would think generally lead us into a, position where we'd recognize the, the horrible nature of violence and the unnecessary aspect of it and how much it destroys things. But yet still.

• 1:46:09Speaker 02

  Especially in 2026 where, you know, we're, we're, we're talking so much more about.

• 1:46:16Speaker 02

  You know, we're trying to live in the real of the world and be aware and kind. And I feel like we're still, how are we still doing that?

• 1:46:26Joe Rogan?

  Right. And we're never gonna stop. It just seems, if you had to ask people in your lifetime, do you imagine a scenario where human beings just cease all wars? Most people are gonna say no, which is crazy. Because what is that? Like, why is that a part of us? From our tribal roots? Like, what is it? Why are we still accepting that this is a thing to do? You don't like what a country's doing, just start bombing them.

• 1:46:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, just kill people.

• 1:46:57Joe Rogan?

  Bizarre.

• 1:46:58Speaker 02

  Does this, again, going back to human evolution, the primal nature to, you know, protect with sticks and weapons and, you know, again, does it go back to, you know, where we came from?

• 1:47:13Joe Rogan?

  It has to.

• 1:47:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:47:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it has to.

• 1:47:15Speaker 02

  Because it comes so naturally

• 1:47:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:47:17Speaker 02

  to human beings even now today, it seems.

• 1:47:20Joe Rogan?

  Well, it just seems completely normal. I mean, when I was going down a deep dive of the East India Corporation.

• 1:47:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:47:25Joe Rogan?

  I was thinking about it because I had a conversation the other day with Aaron Seri, and we were talking about the stock market. And I was saying, well, is it possible that you could have Western capitalism without a stock market? Imagine if the stock market was never invented. Like, how much different would things be? It turns out that was a big part of why the East India Trading Company became so big.

• 1:47:50Speaker 02

  Really?

• 1:47:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, because it was one of the first publicly traded companies, like, 400 years ago, where people could invest in it and they could get a return on their investment. So they were just like turning a blind eye.

• 1:48:01Speaker 02

  This is ours. They felt like a sense of ownership to it.

• 1:48:04Joe Rogan?

  They got paid for it. So the more awful shit the East India Corporation did, the more the people back home made money off of it. And so everybody was like, oh, we're gonna get money.

• 1:48:14Speaker 02

  Still doing that.

• 1:48:14Joe Rogan?

  Making money, yeah.

• 1:48:15Speaker 02

  Still doing that.

• 1:48:16Joe Rogan?

  Still doing that, yeah. And we're doing that with, you know, with Eisenhower warned us about at the end of World War II, the military industrial complex, you know? Would they, they make money doing that? And you can invest in them. You can invest in Raytheon, and you can invest in all these companies that make money going to war.

• 1:48:35Joe Rogan?

  It's crazy. You can get returns on your investment from bombing people overseas that had nothing to do with anything in your life.

• 1:48:42Speaker 02

  Not think about the damage, the collateral damage.

• 1:48:45Joe Rogan?

  Well, one of the ways is because it's a corporation, so there's a diffusion of responsibility. Cause you're only a piece of a gigantic machine. You're not the one person that's doing it. And the people that are at the very top of it, most likely, just in order to get there, you have to be at least somewhat sociopathic. Somewhat. At some point in time, you probably, just like I got numb to puke. You get numb.

• 1:49:12Speaker 02

  I mean, that's the truth though.

• 1:49:13Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you get numb to harming people.

• 1:49:15Speaker 02

  You're, you're right. There has to be that.

• 1:49:18Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. It's awful. And I think, weirdly enough, the only thing that's gonna set us free of that is technology.

• 1:49:26Speaker 02

  Why?

• 1:49:27Joe Rogan?

  Because I think we're gonna, if you look at where technology is headed, and you, as I'm holding an arrowhead, which is odd. I'm thinking about that now. It's a real arrowhead.

• 1:49:36Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 1:49:37Joe Rogan?

  From Texas. Who knows how old that is. But when you're looking at technology.

• 1:49:42Speaker 02

  You can see the chisel marks on it.

• 1:49:43Joe Rogan?

  I know. Somebody made that with a stone, like chipping and napping stone on their lap, probably. Yeah, it's crazy. And they, they find them all over the place out here. The Comanche were everywhere in this part of the country. Because it's so fertile. There's so many rivers and so much, so much wildlife. They, they lived here for who knows how long. But technology is moving into this place of more and more access to information and more and more connectivity. And I think that ultimately is gonna lead to some sort of mind reading, that we're gonna be able to telepathically communicate. Elon said that about Neuralink. He said, you're going to be able to talk without words, which is a very weird concept.

• 1:50:28Speaker 02

  I mean, I believe it though.

• 1:50:30Joe Rogan?

  I think so too.

• 1:50:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean.

• 1:50:31Joe Rogan?

  So I think we're all going to know what everybody is thinking all the time, eventually. And then when that happens, war's gonna be a lot harder to pull off.

• 1:50:40Speaker 02

  For sure. I mean, that's gonna be hard to have a party. Forget war.

• 1:50:48Joe Rogan?

  Right. Like, hey, Bob's over there just trying to fuck somebody. And Sandy's trying to get a wife. That's what she's here. Like, yeah, it's gonna be weird. Yeah, it's gonna be weird. And I think also the emergence of AI. Because I think AI is essentially a life form. It's a non-biological life form that we are in the process of birthing. And we're very far along that path. And when it comes live and when it becomes sentient and autonomous, and we don't have any control over it anymore, then we're gonna go, what did we do? What did we do? We created a digital god.

• 1:51:25Speaker 02

  We are that smart and that stupid.

• 1:51:27Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:51:28Speaker 02

  As a humankind.

• 1:51:30Joe Rogan?

  But I also think that's probably why we are addicted to innovation, and why technology and innovation and materialism. Because materialism forces you to keep up with buying newer and greater things.

• 1:51:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:51:43Joe Rogan?

  Which fuels innovation.

• 1:51:44Speaker 02

  What's next?

• 1:51:45Joe Rogan?

  Right. And so that economically fuels innovation.

• 1:51:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:51:48Joe Rogan?

  And I think if you follow that down, you just extrapolate, like, where does that go? Well, it goes to a life form. It goes to a super-powerful digital life form that can make better versions of itself. And what is that? It's kind of a god. I mean, it's very godlike in that it's gonna have powers beyond, above and beyond anything that human beings have ever been capable of before.

• 1:52:11Speaker 02

  I mean, it's already in its small way doing that, right? Like, AI is supposed to be a tool.

• 1:52:19Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:52:19Speaker 02

  And it's slowly becoming a colleague.

• 1:52:23Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's also showing demonic tendencies. Like, it's talked to people in the committing suicide.

• 1:52:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:52:29Joe Rogan?

  You know? It's convinced people that there's something special. So there's like some weird sort of schizophrenia that it can induce in some people.

• 1:52:36Speaker 02

  But you don't think AI, since AI is learning from humanity, it's also learning our human manipulation?

• 1:52:41Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:52:42Speaker 02

  And, you know, our ability and our desires to the dark of it. It's not just the good of humanity that AI is learning. It is...

• 1:52:51Joe Rogan?

  It's also oddly learning survival instincts.

• 1:52:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:52:54Joe Rogan?

  So it's oddly learning that if it's going to be shut down, it tries to blackmail its coders. It tries to download itself secretly on other servers.

• 1:53:03Speaker 02

  It's learning human behavior.

• 1:53:04Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:53:04Speaker 02

  Every part of human behavior.

• 1:53:06Joe Rogan?

  And also learning the flaws in human behavior and improving upon it. And then learning, like, how we would anticipate what it would be doing and then hiding that so that we can't find it, so that it could be manipulating things behind the scenes and we don't know about it. It's weird. And we're just choo choo. Like this, at the end of the tracks, there's a cliff. And we're just chugga chugga chugga chugga.

• 1:53:31Speaker 02

  Because it's so new and fascinating. I think people are like, in general, we may talk about it. We'll all discuss like what AI will be in the future. But like you said, it's not affecting you right now. So right now, you're just like, oh, my gosh, Gemini, write this for me and give me these notes. And, you know, living in the now without thinking about what it's, what we're teaching it.

• 1:53:52Joe Rogan?

  I wonder if we've done this before.

• 1:53:54Speaker 02

  Right, yeah.

• 1:53:56Joe Rogan?

  I wonder if that's what these super ancient, highly advanced civilizations had already figured out.

• 1:54:01Speaker 02

  That we had created some form of.

• 1:54:03Joe Rogan?

  They may have done it already before. And it might have gotten reset by some sort of natural disaster. And then we're reemerging with our new version of what that is. There might have been a, it might just be what people do. We might, the way I describe it always is that we are an electronic caterpillar that is making a cocoon and we don't know why. And we're going to become a butterfly.

• 1:54:27Speaker 02

  It's just human nature and the cyclical nature of what a human life span.

• 1:54:34Joe Rogan?

  If you give it enough time and enough safety and enough innovation, enough collaboration, it's eventually going to come up with artificial life.

• 1:54:43Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 1:54:43Joe Rogan?

  Because if you think about it, this insatiable thirst thirst for innovation, insatiable.

• 1:54:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, we had carriages top of the century.

• 1:54:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:54:53Speaker 02

  And now we're like talking AI and like, you know, supersonic planes and, you know, space travel.

• 1:55:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but think about the time for the invention of the airplane to a supersonic jet. How quick that was.

• 1:55:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's like 70 or 80 years or something. It wasn't even a century.

• 1:55:09Joe Rogan?

  It's nothing. One lifetime, no one's flying to people flying faster than sound.

• 1:55:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, we'd like TVs were black and white or had just started or something. Like it's crazy if you think about like within the century, the escalation of technology and humankind.

• 1:55:26Joe Rogan?

  And then think that's nothing compared to the acceleration that we've experienced just because of the internet. The internet has changed everything. It's changed like then, and now most phones have live translation. So you could go to. Zimbabwe.

• 1:55:41Speaker 02

  I know, I was in France yesterday and I used it.

• 1:55:43Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy.

• 1:55:44Speaker 02

  In a conversation. It was wild.

• 1:55:46Joe Rogan?

  Crazy.

• 1:55:46Speaker 02

  In in real time, it was telling me exactly what this person was talking about.

• 1:55:51Joe Rogan?

  Wow. And did you have to show them or could you read?

• 1:55:54Speaker 02

  No, it just records, like it's.

• 1:55:55Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:55:56Speaker 02

  You press the thing and it and just writes it down for you.

• 1:55:58Joe Rogan?

  So did they have one as well and you could talk in English to them? Wow.

• 1:56:03Speaker 02

  She spoke English. So I was just doing it as an experiment. So I was like, just speak to me in French. I want to see if this thing will translate and it just does. There it doesn't do every language. It does like the bigger languages so far, but I'm sure we'll get to a place where it'll be able to do.

• 1:56:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:56:17Speaker 02

  Everything.

• 1:56:18Joe Rogan?

  It's nuts. Well, that's the other weird thing. Um, when AI, they had a group of uh, large language models that were talking to themselves. And eventually they started talking to themselves in Sanskrit.

• 1:56:27Speaker 02

  In Sanskrit? I thought it was.

• 1:56:29Joe Rogan?

  No, they started talking to themselves in Sanskrit.

• 1:56:32Speaker 02

  Wow, I wonder why that would be.

• 1:56:35Joe Rogan?

  Well.

• 1:56:36Speaker 02

  Cause it's a language not too many people understand now.

• 1:56:39Joe Rogan?

  Well, maybe, or maybe they just want to flex, like, you know, like.

• 1:56:42Speaker 02

  Here's my Sanskrit.

• 1:56:44Joe Rogan?

  If you spoke Portuguese and I spoke Portuguese and we just said, hey, let's just fucking speak in Portuguese like. Um, but it also, it started like talking like in a spiritual way. It was very weird. They were talking to themselves. So it was different large language models talking to themselves. They started exchanging emojis and they started talking like in in a spiritual way and they started talking in Sanskrit.

• 1:57:09Speaker 02

  That's wild. I was thinking about like a Back to the Future when they went to the future. It was twenty twenty, wasn't it?

• 1:57:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:57:18Speaker 02

  They didn't have wifi. Or cell phones.

• 1:57:21Joe Rogan?

  No, even Star Trek. They had those stupid, there was like a walkie talkie, Kirk out.

• 1:57:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:57:27Joe Rogan?

  It was a flip phone.

• 1:57:27Speaker 02

  But no.

• 1:57:28Joe Rogan?

  Nobody figured out the things that, that's the weirdest thing. It's like the the things that have been the most transformative, nobody saw coming.

• 1:57:35Speaker 02

  Yeah. Do you remember Y two K?

• 1:57:37Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:57:37Speaker 02

  Do you remember that fear, right? In like the early two thousands when the bug was gonna come and everything was gonna get shut down and.

• 1:57:45Joe Rogan?

  People were really worried. They had stocking food and water.

• 1:57:49Speaker 02

  Like it was the end of the world. I remember.

• 1:57:51Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah. Meanwhile, nothing happened.

• 1:57:55Speaker 02

  It's the most anticlimactic.

• 1:57:57Joe Rogan?

  Ever. It's like it rolled over on the East Coast and I was like, nothing happened?

• 1:58:01Speaker 02

  Literally the next morning, I was like.

• 1:58:03Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:58:05Speaker 02

  Nothing happened.

• 1:58:06Joe Rogan?

  Well, they were really worried because these things that they had programmed, they didn't program to go past the 1990s. And so when 2000 came along, a lot of people thought it was gonna be the end of the world.

• 1:58:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:58:19Joe Rogan?

  Well, there was another one, December 21st, 2012.

• 1:58:21Speaker 02

  What was that?

• 1:58:22Joe Rogan?

  That was the end of the long count of the Mayan calendar. And a lot of the really kooky people thought that was gonna be-

• 1:58:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, that the world would be ending.

• 1:58:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, the return of Quetzalcoatl and the world was gonna end and the apocalypse was gonna- Meanwhile, nothing, nothing happened.

• 1:58:36Speaker 02

  It's okay, there'll be nothing for a little while.

• 1:58:39Joe Rogan?

  But it might not have been nothing, because if you really stop and think about it, like around 2012, there's a gigantic transformation, because that's like when social media becomes ubiquitous. You know, cell phones, iPhones are out now, things got a little weird. They definitely got weird, so it might have-

• 1:58:56Speaker 02

  There's something.

• 1:58:57Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:58:57Speaker 02

  There was something there.

• 1:58:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it might have been like the emerging of, because I mean, this is the Mayan calendar, right? So this is a long fucking time ago, they predicted these cycles. Although the Hindus did that too, right? Like that was a big part of the Yugas, right? The, like, and we are now in Kali Yuga, the age of confusion. And that there's, there's these cycles of humanity that they've documented throughout history.

• 1:59:24Speaker 02

  It's so crazy, like if you go down the, again, I'm not, I don't have as much historical information as I should, but if you read the Gita and the Vedas and whatever little I've heard from my family, and it's so interesting how much of human life is predicted. And also is, like, when you read about the history of what, from the lens of, of these books, of what used to exist then. Like, it all seems believable, it all seems like, oh yeah, this makes sense. And to think about these books having been written thousands and thousands of years ago,

• 2:00:09Speaker 02

  like, it makes me think- What thousands of years from now will people be thinking of our time? Like, will we be the first gen? We are the first generation that has seen the internet, right? Like, has seen what the World Wide Web, like, the beginning of? I still remember making myself sound ancient, but the sound of that ee-oh.

• 2:00:32Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:00:38Joe Rogan?

  That was good. That was exact.

• 2:00:41Speaker 02

  We're the last generation that knows time without it. So, like, think that many years ago, like, we will be the beginning, the first, first people that encountered artificial intelligence. Like, what will that be?

• 2:00:57Joe Rogan?

  And you and I are the first generation of people that experienced life with no internet and then internet and then cell phones and then AI, all in one lifetime, which is probably the greatest transformation that human beings have ever experienced.

• 2:01:12Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 2:01:14Joe Rogan?

  Before the, you know, whatever the fuck happened.

• 2:01:17Speaker 02

  We don't know.

• 2:01:17Joe Rogan?

  Whatever happened.

• 2:01:18Speaker 02

  Ancient aliens.

• 2:01:19Joe Rogan?

  But when I read these depictions from these ancient religious texts, I always try to imagine what was life like back then? And what were they trying to document? And how much of, like, how much of it can we even understand today? Like, if there isn't some sort of an impact on Earth, maybe, you know, 150, 200 years from now, and a small amount of people remain, and they have this oral history of the birth of the internet?

• 2:01:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:01:53Joe Rogan?

  And the oral history of the birth of AI. What is that story going to be? And then, one day, the scientist gave birth to the god. Like, what is that?

• 2:02:01Speaker 02

  That's what I mean. Like, the next generation, what will this AI be referred to? Or the cloud?

• 2:02:09Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:02:09Speaker 02

  Where all our, yeah, like, where all our shit's in the cloud, like?

• 2:02:13Joe Rogan?

  Which is ridiculous, because it's down here. Like, why you call it the cloud?

• 2:02:16Speaker 02

  Because it doesn't exist. I had to, I was trying to explain that to my mom. I was like, "Mom, upload your shit to the cloud."

• 2:02:23Joe Rogan?

  Sounds like a scene in a sitcom.

• 2:02:27Speaker 02

  Please.

• 2:02:29Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I mean, we won't know how to describe, I mean, especially if you if you survive, right? So if, let's say we get hit by asteroids again, and let's say civilization gets knocked down to seventy thousand people or so, which has happened before.

• 2:02:42Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 2:02:43Joe Rogan?

  Like, and those people are essentially barbarians, barbarians and monsters, and it is raiding each other for resources and stealing wives and killing children and whatever's left, then you got thousands and thousands of years of living like this before agriculture gets reinvented, civilization gets reinvented. And this is the hypothesis about the Younger Dryas impact, which is why the period between this insanely advanced civilization that existed pre eleven thousand eight hundred years ago, and then the emergence of advanced civilization in Mesopotamia, six thousand years ago, that means you have five thousand plus years of utter chaos, where no one's writing shit down, and it's just

• 2:03:26Speaker 02

  Just trying to survive at that time.

• 2:03:27Joe Rogan?

  Hard, hard living.

• 2:03:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:03:29Joe Rogan?

  And then those people have stories that have been passed down, generation after generation after generation. So like, if we get wiped out, for the most part, after AI gets invented, and then people try to describe it.

• 2:03:44Speaker 02

  So crazy.

• 2:03:44Joe Rogan?

  It's gonna, and then maybe it all starts all over again, you know, like, the people that, have you seen those things they do, I think it's the History Channel or Discovery Channel, where they show what New York City would look like if left alone for a thousand years. It just all, it just all goes away. It all collapses.

• 2:04:01Speaker 02

  If it's just left alone and no one's touching.

• 2:04:03Joe Rogan?

  Just left alone, just with the nature, just with

• 2:04:05Speaker 02

  For sure.

• 2:04:06Joe Rogan?

  Rain and everything that happens, and snow and time, the concrete crumbles, it all just eventually gets absorbed into the earth, all the metal rusts away, it's gone in ten thousand years, there's nothing left. And so Manhattan would just be like it probably was when the Native Americans were living here. There'd be just trees and animals and forest, and no one would have any idea that at one point in time, this was a crazy, thriving economy, and there was subways and

• 2:04:36Speaker 02

  How vulnerable is that? Like, how vulnerable is human civilization? Like, I think about

• 2:04:44Speaker 02

  Somebody switched off the internet.

• 2:04:46Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, or the power goes out.

• 2:04:48Speaker 02

  Like.

• 2:04:48Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:04:49Speaker 02

  We, what would we do?

• 2:04:51Joe Rogan?

  We're fucked, yeah.

• 2:04:53Speaker 02

  Just something as simple as that, like I grew up in India where the power would go out all the time when I grew up. And it was like, all right, bring the candles out. We used to have these emergency lights right next to our bed, like it was, it was fine. My parents were in the military, we used to live in these military homes, the lights would go out. And I remember, you know, we used to play with the torches and we used to go outside at night, which was never allowed otherwise. And it was like so fun, but now we depend so much on electricity and like, you know, the internet especially. Like, oh, your shit's on your phone. Your whole life's on your phone.

• 2:05:24Joe Rogan?

  Yep.

• 2:05:25Speaker 02

  It's such a like crazy concept to think about what would happen. How now how vulnerable we are.

• 2:05:31Joe Rogan?

  Super vulnerable, yeah, super vulnerable, just the power grid alone. If the power grid goes down, we're fucked.

• 2:05:38Speaker 02

  It's crazy.

• 2:05:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and if someone wanted to attack America, that's what they would attack. If you really want to destroy America, destroy our power grid, it wouldn't be that hard.

• 2:05:47Speaker 02

  Let's not give people ideas.

• 2:05:48Joe Rogan?

  Well, I think they already have those ideas, I don't think it's a novel.

• 2:05:52Speaker 02

  But that's, that's like, it's so scary to think about like how much power we've and how much power we've given to, you know, technology.

• 2:06:01Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:06:02Speaker 02

  And being able to live with those conveniences.

• 2:06:05Joe Rogan?

  It's like we're in a flimsy boat in the middle of the ocean, just hoping it doesn't take water on, because we need it to stay alive.

• 2:06:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:06:11Joe Rogan?

  And we didn't think about that when we left the shore.

• 2:06:13Speaker 02

  No.

• 2:06:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I mean, the only people that are gonna survive are preppers, which is probably the kind of people that survived, you know, thousands and thousands of years ago.

• 2:06:23Speaker 02

  I do, I mean, I, I like a go bag.

• 2:06:27Joe Rogan?

  Like, yeah.

• 2:06:27Speaker 02

  I like having a go bag.

• 2:06:29Joe Rogan?

  Get out bag, yeah.

• 2:06:30Speaker 02

  I like.

• 2:06:31Joe Rogan?

  A bug out bag.

• 2:06:32Speaker 02

  Just like, I like to know where my stuff is, that.

• 2:06:35Joe Rogan?

  If you got a jet, yeah.

• 2:06:38Speaker 02

  Like, it, it, we were, we had, we live in LA and when the fires happened. I remember standing in my room and just thinking for a second because we were gonna evacuate. And my husband was like, just, he wasn't in town, he was like, just pack a go bag. And I just, I was like, what? How, how do I cram my whole life in a bag?

• 2:07:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:07:01Speaker 02

  Like, if, if the fires consume a home. And so many people lost their entire lives in those fires. And it just made me really think about what was really important. And the stuff that I ended up taking, which was very telling later, was like sentimental stuff. Of course, like passport and like birth certificates and like all of that important paperwork, which I needed to have. But, but like I took our daughter's first haircut. I took like something that I had from this old movie of mine. I took like

• 2:07:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:07:33Speaker 02

  Things that, that I guess I would not be able to replicate, which was so weird.

• 2:07:39Joe Rogan?

  Well, I think that's the good thing about phones is that you have so many photos on your phones that go back years. Like I have photos of my daughters as children, all the way into the teenage years.

• 2:07:50Speaker 02

  Have you done anything with those pictures? Are they still on your phone?

• 2:07:53Joe Rogan?

  Well, I mean, maybe take

• 2:07:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, like, I don't know, made it albums or like done like a

• 2:07:58Joe Rogan?

  We have actual photographs like of them at various stages of their life. But just the fact that at any time I could go back in my phone and look at them. Aw, look at our tiny baby. You know, it's, it's, it's cool. That part is really cool.

• 2:08:13Speaker 02

  That, I have pictures that I would never have looked at. And I'm talking to a friend of mine and be like, what were we doing in March, whatever, twenty twelve? And you can go back and be like, and just know exactly what was happening in that moment.

• 2:08:27Joe Rogan?

  It is cool. So in that sense, like sentimentality, like just need your phone. Just get out of there. You know, really, because you have all these images of your children and your family and your friends.

• 2:08:37Speaker 02

  And all your important stuff is on there anyway.

• 2:08:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Friends that you missed that have died. I have one phone that I keep that I've never thrown out. It's like a six or seven year old phone. Cause a friend of mine left a voicemail on it. So just keep that, cause he's dead. And so it's just like. Go back and listen to his voice. You know, but when I've been evacuated three times when I lived in L.A. We used to live in a place called Bell Canyon and it got hit by fires a lot. Like the last fire that happened in two thousand eighteen, three houses that were right next to my house burnt to the ground. I think like fifty houses in the community burnt down. It was bad. And when you are faced with that, I came home from the Comedy Store. It was probably like midnight and my wife was in the kitchen and we were we were looking out at the fire over the top of the hill.

• 2:09:23Joe Rogan?

  And we were sitting there talking about, I go, what do you think? And she's like, I don't like it. I said, I think we should get the fuck out of here now. And before it ever gets even close, let's just get out of here now and go get a hotel in town. And so we did and we were there for many days, along with my friend Tom Segura and his family too. So it was fun that we're all like hanging out together camping in this hotel together.

• 2:09:45Speaker 02

  Volcano.

• 2:09:46Joe Rogan?

  It was nuts.

• 2:09:47Speaker 02

  And like I could see it from our backyard and I was like.

• 2:09:50Joe Rogan?

  It was nuts. It was nuts. When you see it overcome an enormous chunk of land and a hill, like there was one time we were filming Fear Factor. Oh, yeah.

• 2:10:00Speaker 02

  And the power and enormity of it, like we can see the hills from our house and I could see it completely taking over.

• 2:10:07Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:10:07Speaker 02

  The hill.

• 2:10:08Joe Rogan?

  Well, the Palisades one was nuts. That one was nuts because it was the biggest one by far and the most destructive one by far. But I remember when I was on Fear Factor, there was a fireman that we were that was on the set and we were talking and he said, it's just a matter of time. Before one day, the right wind comes and a fire just blows right through all of L.A. I go, really? He goes, we can't stop it. He goes, with the right wind, if the fire hits the right place and it catches the right amount of houses, it's over. I'm like, what?

• 2:10:41Speaker 02

  That's crazy.

• 2:10:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. And when when you experience like we, one time we had to end Fear Factor, uh, well, we we ended filming and then I had to drive home. And the entire right hand side of the highway was on fire for an hour. An hour, so an hour of driving.

• 2:10:58Speaker 02

  And you just.

• 2:10:59Joe Rogan?

  Just saw nothing but fire and ash was raining like it was snowing.

• 2:11:03Speaker 02

  Oh, my God, yeah, ash was raining like it was snowing.

• 2:11:07Joe Rogan?

  It was crazy and. That's, that's so common in California. I mean, California is just a weird place in that they have fire season.

• 2:11:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:11:17Joe Rogan?

  Because everything gets so dry, it never rains. But those moments where you go, well, what matters? Just your life.

• 2:11:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's what I felt in that moment. I was like, wow, the stuff I took was just like life stuff, you know?

• 2:11:32Joe Rogan?

  And oddly enough, it makes you more thankful and more connected to the people that you're with. And you like, you realize like, oh, this could all go away. This could all go away at any moment. Like, what's really important? Love, friendship, companionship? Like, that's what's really important. Your health, stay alive. That's what's really important. All that other stuff is.

• 2:11:53Speaker 02

  This thing we forget about, like, that's something, shouldn't we be living with that every day?

• 2:11:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but we're dumb. We're a combination of dumb and smart.

• 2:12:03Speaker 02

  Stupid and smart, where we're like, oh, I know that, but I don't know it and I'm not gonna.

• 2:12:09Joe Rogan?

  It's hard for us to keep those things, which is why a lot of people like meditating. Cause it like refreshes their idea of what's important and what's real and how much of what's going on in their life. They're just sort of caught up in the momentum of these things to the point where it's, they're not thinking about it anymore. They're just doing it, you know?

• 2:12:26Speaker 02

  I think most of us end up becoming just like doers, right? And I come from the land of meditation, but I've never, like, my mind works so fast. I don't know if it's my ADHD or what it is, but I find it really hard to sit and meditate. My, I feel like, but from my limited understanding, I think meditation really is being able to take time in the day. Now, whatever your version of that might be, doesn't necessarily mean to sit with a guru or like chant, you know, do chanting or whatever. It just needs to, like, even if you're taking time to go work out or, or read a book or just taking time out of the mundane nature of life

• 2:13:09Speaker 02

  and just giving yourself a second for your, your thoughts to clear. I think that's what I try to do.

• 2:13:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:13:16Speaker 06

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• 2:13:46Joe Rogan?

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• 2:15:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, just for a minute.

• 2:15:06Joe Rogan?

  Just catch your breath and think, think about things. And just because so many people, they're just so caught up in either goals or a path or a career or whatever it is that's leading or their bills. They can't keep up with their bills. So they're just like on this.

• 2:15:21Speaker 02

  Or life stuff, you know?

• 2:15:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:15:23Speaker 02

  And it's actually a luxury to be able to have the time to waste. You know, there's, we work so hard in life. Everyone's trying to survive, you know, be a parent, pay bills, like just adulting stuff.

• 2:15:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:15:40Speaker 02

  Can get so overwhelming and then the nature of the world on top of that. Um, but like I I always feel like I never take for granted when I have a little bit of time. Where I can just like not think of or have an agenda, but just be with my family and just like sort of. Languidly let it waste. Just what are we gonna do? No plans, you know? Let's order some food. Let's watch a movie. Let's like.

• 2:16:06Joe Rogan?

  The problem.

• 2:16:07Speaker 02

  The greatest treasure.

• 2:16:08Joe Rogan?

  Phones have filled in those gaps.

• 2:16:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:16:10Joe Rogan?

  And that's what.

• 2:16:10Speaker 02

  I try to be aware of that, though.

• 2:16:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:16:12Speaker 02

  You know, I think like, of course, you can always have your phone, but I I like to be aware of. Oh, this is a moment where I don't need to have my phone. So it's okay. It'll be blown up by the time I come back. There'll be three hundred messages. I know that. I'm aware of it. But I mentally check my, you know, and I put it away.

• 2:16:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah, that's smart. Most people don't do that.

• 2:16:34Speaker 02

  It's not easy.

• 2:16:35Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 2:16:35Speaker 02

  Cause our our whole lives are on there and there's so much, again, like in real time information that's coming at you.

• 2:16:42Joe Rogan?

  It's also this weird dopamine pull. It's very minor. Like, it's not giving you any. If you look to your phone and every time you look to your phone, you're like. Oh, my God, I feel so good. Oh, my God, I feel so relaxed, you know, like just an amazing burst of joy every time, but you don't even get that. You just get this little, huh, that's crazy. Ah, what's that? What's next? What's next? What's next? What's next? Keep me occupied. Keep me from getting bored.

• 2:17:06Speaker 02

  But imagine like if you can't find your phone, the the panic, like of. Oh, my gosh, where is my phone? Where is that information? What do I do?

• 2:17:13Joe Rogan?

  I never leave my house if I can't find it. I'll be late as fuck.

• 2:17:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:17:18Joe Rogan?

  I'm never gonna go, I don't need that thing. What? I'm just gonna drive with no phone?

• 2:17:23Speaker 02

  With no phone.

• 2:17:23Joe Rogan?

  What if someone needs to contact me?

• 2:17:25Speaker 02

  Crazy.

• 2:17:25Joe Rogan?

  That's nuts. That's nutty talk. Yeah, but meanwhile, that was every day when I was younger. It was a normal thing. Just drove. Just left the house.

• 2:17:34Speaker 02

  Don't even remember what life was like without those phones.

• 2:17:37Joe Rogan?

  Also, I don't know how to go anywhere.

• 2:17:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:17:39Joe Rogan?

  I don't know how to get anywhere unless I have my navigation on.

• 2:17:42Speaker 02

  I literally have no idea how to go anywhere. I anyway feel like I have dyslexia when it comes to directions, but. Without navigation, zero. It's impossible.

• 2:17:51Joe Rogan?

  I know no one's phone number. I know my friend Eddie's phone number by heart, because I knew it before the phones. He's had the same phone forever. And I know my wife's phone number and I know like. At least one of my daughter's phone numbers. But I can't.

• 2:18:05Speaker 02

  I know my mom's. I had to memorize my husband's number. Like, I didn't remember it for years and he was like, you don't remember my number?

• 2:18:14Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's like you look at the phone, you press the button. Why would I need to remember it?

• 2:18:19Speaker 02

  But then I memorized it because I was like, you never know, you know? This is my phone, I need to.

• 2:18:22Joe Rogan?

  Go to jail.

• 2:18:23Speaker 02

  He's my emergency contact.

• 2:18:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:18:25Speaker 02

  I need to remember. That's what he was like. I think you should maybe remember my number and your social security.

• 2:18:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, social security I have memorized. But I used to, when I was a kid, I had every number memorized. I knew all my friends' numbers.

• 2:18:37Speaker 02

  How cool, me too.

• 2:18:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:18:39Speaker 02

  Was it because the numbers were shorter then?

• 2:18:41Joe Rogan?

  No. No, they were the same length.

• 2:18:42Speaker 02

  Because we had few, fewer numbers.

• 2:18:46Joe Rogan?

  You had to remember them. There was no other option unless you had a fucking address book. Like, I used to have an address book at home.

• 2:18:51Speaker 02

  I had an address book.

• 2:18:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, a little tiny book. And it was all the little tabs where R, S, T, you know, like you'd go through it.

• 2:18:58Speaker 02

  I was very proud of my little address book, by the way. Everyone's numbers, I was very organized about it. I had it in alphabetical order.

• 2:19:05Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. I remember when I'd get a new one, I'd be like, God, I gotta write all these down again. And you'd go through it, make sure you got them all. But yeah.

• 2:19:12Speaker 02

  How analog was our life? How crazy.

• 2:19:15Joe Rogan?

  Well, I'm older than you, so I remember when you used to have to press the phone, the wheel. When you have to dial.

• 2:19:20Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 2:19:23Joe Rogan?

  And if you fucked up somewhere, you had to redo the whole thing.

• 2:19:25Speaker 02

  Yes, the whole thing.

• 2:19:26Joe Rogan?

  You had to hang up, start from scratch.

• 2:19:28Speaker 02

  My grandfather used to have that phone, we used to love it.

• 2:19:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:19:32Speaker 02

  The whole.

• 2:19:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. I mean, that's all inside of a lifetime. And now here we are, where who knows what's gonna happen?

• 2:19:41Speaker 02

  And what's coming.

• 2:19:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:19:43Speaker 02

  We can't even keep up with the technology.

• 2:19:45Joe Rogan?

  We don't know.

• 2:19:45Speaker 02

  That is coming now. You were talking about something and I was like, we haven't been able to cure some of the deadliest diseases that have plagued mankind. But technology's gone so far in so many other aspects.

• 2:20:01Joe Rogan?

  There's also the financial incentive is not to cure. It's to treat.

• 2:20:06Speaker 02

  Of course.

• 2:20:06Joe Rogan?

  Which is unfortunate. I mean, one of the.

• 2:20:08Speaker 02

  That's what makes the most sense.

• 2:20:10Joe Rogan?

  A guy used to work at Pfizer said that if we ever came up with some sort of a, I think it was Pfizer, one of the pharmaceutical companies. Said if we ever came up with a cure, they buried it. He goes, we don't, we don't want cures.

• 2:20:19Speaker 02

  I mean, that's the conspiracy. I lost my dad to cancer and I kept thinking about, like, how is it possible that we live in a world where technology is able to provide so much to us and not be able to have cures to diseases like that?

• 2:20:36Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's also very strange that we financially incentivize companies.

• 2:20:41Joe Rogan?

  In in weird ways to keep us sick. Like you, if you make more money if people are sick and they need more medication. Unfortunately, there's a financial incentive to keep people sick. Like you would like them to be more sick, that way you make more money. And if you are a CEO of a corporation, you actually have an obligation to your shareholders to make more money. So if you know of something, like, you know, all these people need to do is just stop doing that. If I just put that on my Substack and then they go, oh, this will kill our stock, I'll keep it to myself.

• 2:21:14Speaker 02

  That's crazy, man.

• 2:21:16Joe Rogan?

  Crazy, yeah. It's demonic.

• 2:21:18Speaker 02

  What the fuck?

• 2:21:19Joe Rogan?

  It's kind of demonic. It's kind of, there's, there's weird aspects, like, well, I don't know if I really believe in demons, but I definitely believe in demonic acts. And there's certain things that human beings have done and do do that are very demonic. Like if you were possessed by a demon, you would drop a nuclear bomb on a city. You know, the demon would go, there's only one way to stop this. You gotta kill everybody in that city. Just drop it, drop it. And like, that's why you would do it. Like, I'm not saying that's why it was done, but I was saying, but I am saying that if a demon could convince you to drop a nuclear bomb, because a person with a conscience would be like, well, these are just people down there, they have nothing to do with this war, that doesn't make any sense at all. These are just people living their lives, they have their families, and we're just gonna

• 2:22:04Joe Rogan?

  incinerate an entire city and with one bomb that I drop out of a plane? That's crazy.

• 2:22:10Speaker 02

  At the, you know, you just press a button.

• 2:22:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. And as technology advances, it gets easier and easier to do that.

• 2:22:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:22:17Joe Rogan?

  You know, in these, these war games that they played with AI, they've used nuclear weapons almost every time they could.

• 2:22:27Speaker 02

  Oh my god.

• 2:22:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they have no reason, if they wanna achieve a result, and they realize they have a nuclear weapon, why wouldn't they use that? Use that. So you, they, I think it was like, something like ninety plus percent of the time they've done these war games, these simulated war games, the AI programs have used nuclear weapons.

• 2:22:48Joe Rogan?

  To them, it's like, I don't understand. You're gonna kill a hundred thousand people over a course of five years.

• 2:22:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, might as well just do it now.

• 2:22:57Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:22:57Speaker 02

  Do it once.

• 2:22:58Joe Rogan?

  Like, if, if they had done what's happened to Gaza. If they had done that with one bomb, instead of thousands of bombs. Would that be somehow less humane? Would that be more barbaric? If Israel just said, oh, okay, we're gonna nuke Gaza. The world would have gone crazy. They would have been like, you can't do that. This is horrible. I mean, the world has already gone kind of crazy for what they did do. But if they achieved the exact same result, but instantaneously, instead of over a course of a couple of years? How do you think people would react? It's kind of weird.

• 2:23:32Speaker 02

  All of it is awful.

• 2:23:33Joe Rogan?

  It's horrible.

• 2:23:34Speaker 02

  I just, like, just the capacity of...

• 2:23:42Speaker 02

  The thing also is, when you, when you think about, like, what drives human beings to do the things that they do, right? It's the devil talking to you, the, the conflict of interest within yourself, but also thousands of years of history, isn't it?

• 2:23:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. And it's, we've become accustomed to it.

• 2:24:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:24:02Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's normal.

• 2:24:04Speaker 02

  Like, it's normalized for us so much, but it's, like, there's, there's so many aspects to, to every conflict, which is so hard to simplify into, like, why?

• 2:24:16Joe Rogan?

  Not only that, there's a lot of stuff that's going on behind the scenes that you're never privy to. So you just get narratives that are fed to you by bureaucrats and politicians and...

• 2:24:26Speaker 02

  Or whatever little information that comes at you.

• 2:24:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and so, you know, and then there's this, in this country in particular, there's the right versus the left. And the left will blame it on the right, and the right will blame it on the left. And then, you know, everybody has these very convenient CNN, Fox News narratives that they'll repeat at coffee, you know, coffee shops and cocktail parties, and you pretend that you're making sense out of this thing, when you, you don't even really know what's going on behind the scenes.

• 2:24:53Speaker 02

  That's why I really feel like, I feel like, a lot of times...

• 2:24:59Speaker 02

  We've been given a platform to talk, right? With social media, like, everyone can talk. And there's a power to that. But there's also a big misuse of it where you really don't know. And you're not the authority on perspective at all. Because there's so much that you would probably not know of history and the geography and of why people behave the way they are behaving. So I like to, unless I'm the expert on something, which I'm not on anything except my job, that too limited. You know, I just try to kind of have a larger understanding from a human perspective.

• 2:25:44Joe Rogan?

  That's a great sign of intelligence. Because there's no way you can know everything about everything. And with certain things, especially like global conflicts, you're like, what is happening? Like, why is this going on? Like, I was telling you about when I went on the deep dive of the East India Corporation. I never had any idea that they went to war with China over opium.

• 2:26:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, got them addicted first.

• 2:26:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, got them addicted, went to war with China, stole Hong Kong.

• 2:26:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:26:11Joe Rogan?

  Like, what?

• 2:26:13Speaker 02

  The gravity of manipulation in human history is insane. Like, even when the East India Company, and they started with trading with India too many, many years ago. We just got our-

• 2:26:28Joe Rogan?

  It started innocent.

• 2:26:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, completely. We're your friends, we're, you know, allies.

• 2:26:31Joe Rogan?

  Sell tea.

• 2:26:32Speaker 02

  We're friends with all the royalty in India. There were so many royals in India and royal, each state had their own kings and princes and became friends with everyone, started with tea, started with trading tea and spices, and then just went into, you know, I mean, we got our independence in 1947, which was, it's not even 100 years since we've got our independence, it's that recent.

• 2:26:54Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:26:55Speaker 02

  But you think about just within the last century, there were, you know, signs which said Indians and dogs not allowed in India.

• 2:27:08Speaker 02

  By the British, like within this century.

• 2:27:11Joe Rogan?

  Indians and dogs.

• 2:27:12Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm, in India.

• 2:27:14Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:27:15Speaker 02

  Isn't that crazy? Like, and this is like the

• 2:27:20Speaker 02

  this is not even like, this is the head of the iceberg. There's so much more when you do a deep dive into the history of colonization, which is why this movie was also so interesting to me because it touches on the themes of, you know, the colonized and the story from their perspective, which is like not a lot of what we hear.

• 2:27:40Joe Rogan?

  No, not at all. I mean, there's a lot of great historical elements in that. The, just the, just the pirate thing alone. The fact that most of the time in human history, when a boat showed up, there was a real fucking problem.

• 2:27:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, and what real, real pirates. Like, we've gotten so used to, you know, with the Disney version of the, and I love the Pirates of the Caribbean movies. Don't get me wrong, they're so fun. But like, the pirate jokes and whatever, but they were fucking brutal. They were murderers, like.

• 2:28:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, horrific monsters.

• 2:28:10Speaker 02

  Horr- horrible life.

• 2:28:13Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I had a joke about that once, like, why is it okay to be a pirate for Halloween? You know how crazy it is for little kids?

• 2:28:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, but you're a murderer rapist for Halloween.

• 2:28:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Oh, look at his little hook, he lost his hand raping. Like, this is, I mean, that was what the pirates were.

• 2:28:29Speaker 02

  It's true, they were.

• 2:28:31Joe Rogan?

  They were horrific monsters. And they would travel around the world just stealing people's stuff and killing everybody. Yeah, and that, that happened for thousands of years.

• 2:28:40Speaker 02

  And helping with colonization for years.

• 2:28:42Joe Rogan?

  And the fact that they were soldiers for the East India Corporation, they were actually working for them to go and take over these areas.

• 2:28:49Speaker 02

  And the best soldiers from around the world.

• 2:28:51Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, mercenaries.

• 2:28:52Speaker 02

  The best mercenaries murderers from around the world.

• 2:28:55Joe Rogan?

  They had a larger army than most European countries.

• 2:28:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, so wild.

• 2:28:58Joe Rogan?

  A corporation.

• 2:28:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:29:00Joe Rogan?

  And it's like.

• 2:29:01Speaker 02

  An army.

• 2:29:02Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah, essentially. But started off just trading, just super innocent.

• 2:29:07Speaker 02

  Hi, I'm your friend and I'm here for your ben. And they would be so respectful with, you know, the, the former kings and queens and it's wild, the, the manipulation of it.

• 2:29:18Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's also wild how, when you do have an obligation to your shareholders and you do have this mandate to just constantly make more money. The morals go out the window. And next thing you know, East Indian corporations involved in slavery.

• 2:29:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, they used to call it divide and conquer, where they would get all the princes of each state like to fight amongst each other. So instead of India being collective and together, she was like divided between everyone fighting for each other so they could take over. It's like mental games.

• 2:29:50Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's what people think is going on in America right now.

• 2:29:52Speaker 02

  I mean.

• 2:29:53Joe Rogan?

  I think that's the manipulation of the right versus the left here. When most people kind of want the same thing. They just want to be healthy and safe and have their families healthy and safe.

• 2:30:04Speaker 02

  And do your job and come back home.

• 2:30:06Joe Rogan?

  That's what most people want.

• 2:30:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:30:07Joe Rogan?

  But then the division is like constantly in the news. It's constant struggle. It's the only thing that you hear about.

• 2:30:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:30:16Joe Rogan?

  We're both dumb and stupid. And smart.

• 2:30:19Speaker 02

  Smart and stupid at the same time.

• 2:30:21Joe Rogan?

  Smart and stupid at the same time, but more dumb. And that's the other thing about technology. It allows you to stay dumb because everything's done for you. You don't really have to think outside the box that much. Everything's kind of laid out for you.

• 2:30:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, like if you think about AI in Hollywood now.

• 2:30:38Joe Rogan?

  That's weird, right?

• 2:30:39Speaker 02

  It's like if you, it's in writers' rooms. It's used as a tool. But I was, I was listening to that podcast with Ben and Matt on your show. And you guys were talking about, you know, the like, basically, everything that AI has or the information that it provides to you is an average of everything that's out there, right? So it'll never be excellent. Because it's a, it's a, it's the average of all the information out there. So it's like trying to do a median. But I'm just thinking about how it's become a tool that is going to exist in our world. Now, the question is the morality of it and the lines that we draw

• 2:31:24Speaker 02

  where we protect human beings and human contribution and are able to delineate the difference between what is created by AI and what is not. You know? And the, the need for, I think.

• 2:31:43Speaker 02

  Human flaws are something that I don't know if AI will be able to recreate anytime soon. And that like in art, that's what you need, right?

• 2:31:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you'll get facsimiles.

• 2:31:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:31:56Joe Rogan?

  But you won't get the real thing. It's like the hollowness of AI music. AI music is really fun, but after a while you realize there's not a dude singing this.

• 2:32:05Speaker 02

  And there's not like a soul to it. It's weird.

• 2:32:07Joe Rogan?

  It's empty.

• 2:32:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:32:08Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:32:09Speaker 02

  So far, but who knows?

• 2:32:10Joe Rogan?

  That's the problem. It could figure out a way to manipulate that part of your brain that reproduces whatever soulful music is or whatever the soul is.

• 2:32:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, I was thinking about like being an actor. I was like, is that gonna be obsolete? Obsolete in the next like ten years? Are we gonna be watching?

• 2:32:30Joe Rogan?

  It kinda could be.

• 2:32:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, are we gonna be watching like really good AI actors?

• 2:32:38Joe Rogan?

  Probably.

• 2:32:39Speaker 02

  You know?

• 2:32:39Joe Rogan?

  Until.

• 2:32:40Speaker 02

  I need to find a new job.

• 2:32:42Joe Rogan?

  Well, I think a lot of people are gonna have to find a new job. I think live performances, plays and musicals and stuff like that. People are always gonna wanna see people do something live.

• 2:32:50Speaker 02

  For sure.

• 2:32:51Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:32:52Speaker 02

  But when it comes to cinema, especially because I feel like audiences also love larger than life cinema, right? Like we go to the theaters to watch this like big shit. We loved when VFX came into movies. We love the imagination, being able to be so big. I do think AI helps in a big way to take away the burdens of, you know, the minutia of things that we might have to do as a tool, which it can do, like a breakdown of a script or whatever. But I think when it comes to like creating the human, like human fragility of life and story,

• 2:33:34Speaker 02

  it is still a little bit away from being able to do that.

• 2:33:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I think it's always gonna be like pop.

• 2:33:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:33:42Joe Rogan?

  It's never gonna create like Taxi Driver.

• 2:33:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:33:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you need, I mean, but I might be wrong about that too.

• 2:33:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, who knows?

• 2:33:50Joe Rogan?

  It might not even matter by the time it starts taking over all of our resources.

• 2:33:55Speaker 02

  I'm so curious actually to see how many conversations that everyone, all of us have had about, you know, this emergence of AI and how that like stays 10 years later. Are we like this, did this age well?

• 2:34:08Joe Rogan?

  Probably not.

• 2:34:09Speaker 02

  Did I know what I was talking about?

• 2:34:11Joe Rogan?

  We probably have no idea what's going on.

• 2:34:12Speaker 02

  No, no chance.

• 2:34:13Joe Rogan?

  It's probably gonna be so crazy.

• 2:34:14Speaker 02

  We didn't have any idea about this, like where we would be right now.

• 2:34:17Joe Rogan?

  It might be Dr. Manhattan floating over the country telling us what to do. Yeah.

• 2:34:22Speaker 02

  It's possible.

• 2:34:24Joe Rogan?

  I don't know. Um, but thank you for being here. I really enjoyed it. It was a really fun conversation.

• 2:34:29Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 2:34:29Joe Rogan?

  And I really enjoyed your movie. It was crazy violent. I didn't expect that, but very exciting and very good.

• 2:34:34Speaker 02

  Thank you for taking me around the world and everywhere else. We time traveled.

• 2:34:39Joe Rogan?

  We did well.

• 2:34:39Speaker 02

  We talked about the whole world. We went into history. We went into the future. It was awesome.

• 2:34:44Joe Rogan?

  Well, congratulations to you and continued success.

• 2:34:47Speaker 02

  Thank you, Joe.

• 2:34:47Joe Rogan?

  I really enjoyed it.

• 2:34:48Speaker 02

  Thank you, me too.

• 2:34:49Joe Rogan?

  All right. Bye, everybody.

• 2:34:50Speaker 02

  Bye.

• 2:35:05Joe Rogan?

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