Defy The Process Of Aging w/ David Sinclair

Most of us want to live as long as possible. It’s a SURVIVAL INSTINCT that’s hard-wired into our DNA. BUT IT’S NOT ENOUGH TO LIVE A LONG LIFE. OUR QUALITY OF LIFE MATTERS, TOO. Unlocking the secrets to a long, healthy life has CHALLENGED MANKIND since the dawn of medical science. Those of you who know me, also know I’ve been fascinated by this subject for quite a while, too. That’s why it’s a great privilege to welcome back this week’s guest, DR. DAVID SINCLAIR. He is a LEADING SCHOLAR and Professor in the Department of Genetics and co-Director of the Paul F. Glenn Center for Biology of Aging Research at HARVARD MEDICAL SCHOOL where he has been teaching aging biology and translational medicine for aging for the past 16 years. More than that, he is also a foremost researcher best known for his work on UNDERSTANDING WHY WE AGE and HOW TO SLOW ITS EFFECTS. Contemporary BLEEDING EDGE RESEARCH and scientific advancements have propelled us forward and not only UNLOCKED SECRETS TO LONGEVITY but have also created new questions and curiosities that continue to excite our BEST AND BRIGHTEST MINDS. And few people on planet earth are as well versed or as educated on this subject as Dr. Sinclair. He lives in a world filled with deep examinations of hormesis, sirtuins, energy metabolism, biosynthesis, mTOR levels, reprogramming genes, mitochondria, learning and memory, time-restricted feeding and caloric restrictions, neurodegeneration, and cancer. While many of you may AWESTRUCK by this area of science, you should also be EXCITED by Dr. Sinclair’s research, because one day it will have a DIRECT IMPACT on you. This week, we’re going to translate what that research means to you in practical terms…and it’s coming sooner than you think! Dr. Sinclair covers a wide range of topics from red light therapy, to the effects of glucose on our bodies, hormone replacement, and the importance of being physically active, fasting, and not eating meat. We also touch on ALTERING DNA which holds the possibility of significantly extending life, and CURING HORRIFIC DISEASES like cancer, MS, Alzheimer’s, Parkinsons, and many others. Our discussion isn’t just about theories and research though. Dr. Sinclair has also got some HANDS-ON TIPS on what you can do to start to start feeling and looking younger right now. So, sit back, relax, and LEARN. CLASS IS ABOUT TO BEGIN, and I guarantee, you won’t want to miss it. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Ed Mylett?

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• 0:45Ed Mylett?

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• 1:01Speaker 01

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  On October 2nd.

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  Digger. See the trailer online. Only in theaters October 2nd. Rated R. Under 17. Not a minute without parent.

• 1:36Speaker 02

  This is the Ed Mileage Show.

• 1:40Ed Mylett?

  All right, welcome back to the program, everybody. I have one of the smartest men in the world here in the studio with me here today. And somebody that I enjoy his company so much. The last time he was on the show, we were both just talking about the fact that we did consume a great deal of tequila prior and during the show. So today, you may even get a better program. He is a Harvard professor. He is the director of, co-director of the Paul F. Glenn Center for Biology of Aging Research at this place called Harvard Medical School. And he is, I think, the foremost expert on slowing down the aging process on the planet Earth today. And one of my favorite guests I've ever had on. He's also the author of the book Lifespan and a bunch of other great stuff we're going to talk about today. Dr. David Sinclair, welcome back, brother.

• 2:24Dr. David Sinclair?

  Ed, thanks for having me back on. It's good to see you.

• 2:25Ed Mylett?

  Good to see you. I'm looking at you, and I'm thinking, you look younger. And I want to know if that's a telling sign of aging. In other words, do we look our age? If we look younger, are we actually mechanically, medically, biologically younger?

• 2:42Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yes.

• 2:43Ed Mylett?

  Really?

• 2:44Dr. David Sinclair?

  It's really true. There was a study, maybe a couple of years ago, they looked at people's biochemistry. You can now measure people's age. You can do the what's called the DNA methylation clock. It's basically reading the DNA chemicals. And we can see the age. And then you can match that to how old somebody looks. And this was based on AI interpretation of age. And if somebody looked older, they generally were older internally as well.

• 3:07Ed Mylett?

  This whole aging thing, we talked about this a lot on the program before. So describe for us, because I think the foundation of your work, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, is this concept, the basic concept of hormesis. So I know what it is because I've done a bunch of reading. I've read your book and studied you like crazy. But explain to everybody, what is the basis of hormesis? And why does that impact aging?

• 3:28Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah. Well, it's similar to what you preach, which is what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. And that's basically the biological premise here is that we want the body to be under a state of non-complacency. In other words, I want to make everybody have their body feel as though they could die next week. So you got to trick your body. I mean, you don't want to die next week, obviously, but you you want to induce this. You call it hormesis. That's what scientists call it. But basically, it's putting the state of the body in a state of perceived adversity as opposed to some of the other, some of the other things that we can do in life, and that's perceived abundance.

• 4:04Ed Mylett?

  Yeah.

• 4:04Dr. David Sinclair?

  And in life, we have a choice. We can live a certain way. Some of them are choices of lifestyle, diet, exercise, hot, cold, even mental health. Those things can put you either in this abundance state or adversity state. And it's that adversity hormesis state that long term is pretty much proven, and certainly in animals, it's known to extend the lifespan and keep you healthier for longer. It's not just about living longer. It's got to be healthier. And in fact, often people say, well, why would I want to live longer if I'm just going to be older for longer?

• 4:34Ed Mylett?

  I hear that a lot.

• 4:34Dr. David Sinclair?

  And that's so wrong. What I'm about is let's prevent and treat diseases of aging by keeping the body younger. And the only way I know how to keep somebody alive for longer is to keep their diseases away. And turns out, if you're not sick and you're not depressed, you've got family, you don't want to die, and you don't die. So that's my goal, is to keep everybody happy, healthy, productive. When that happens, you live longer.

• 4:59Ed Mylett?

  Yeah, there's very few people. It's funny, of all the stuff in the medical world right now, there's this little community, right? Even to this day, you're one of very few people who are really spending their life studying this topic. It's fascinating. You would think that preventative medicine, preventative health, in other words, being proactive instead of treating disease, instead of preventing it would be what everybody would be into now, but it's really still the way it was eighty, a hundred years ago. We just treat symptoms still, don't we?

• 5:25Dr. David Sinclair?

  Well, doctors do. I train doctors. That's where it's come out of history where you have to wait for somebody to be sick to be able to diagnose and then treat.

• 5:32Ed Mylett?

  Yeah.

• 5:32Dr. David Sinclair?

  But we live in a world now where we can predict diseases.

• 5:35Ed Mylett?

  Right.

• 5:35Dr. David Sinclair?

  In a way that people a hundred years ago could never do that.

• 5:38Ed Mylett?

  Yeah.

• 5:38Dr. David Sinclair?

  And so it's, it's very rapidly changing, not so much at the edge of medicine, but in the consumer health and wellness and people's education of how to live their lives. And then they go to their doctor and say, hey, have you heard about this? Or, hey, have you seen my latest blood work that I had done myself?

• 5:53Ed Mylett?

  It's so true.

• 5:54Dr. David Sinclair?

  And that, the, the patient is now driving the doctor for the most part.

• 5:58Ed Mylett?

  It is so true. I mean, that's exactly what I do. And I'm, I'm these little markers and whatnot. The hormon meister thing, I want to stay on that in a minute. So is intermittent fasting one of those things? In other words, you've tricked your body into thinking you're hungry? So that is a form of survival mode in your body?

• 6:11Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, it is. It is. Time restricted feeding is a better way of putting it.

• 6:15Ed Mylett?

  Okay. Why? What's the difference?

• 6:17Dr. David Sinclair?

  Uh, well, intermittent, so fasting is typically longer than a day, can go for a couple of days, three days. I don't do that. I find that too draining on me.

• 6:24Ed Mylett?

  Mm hmm.

• 6:25Dr. David Sinclair?

  Um, so what I do is restrict the time that I eat and I put that down to a few hours a day. So it's, if I can help it, uh, one meal a day, one big meal.

• 6:33Ed Mylett?

  Do you really?

• 6:33Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, I try to do that. And I've, I've lost a lot of weight. Uh, I have a lot better blood biochemistry. My predicted age is younger than it was. You've noticed that I look different. And that I think is partly due to the change in diet and not just what I eat, which I've changed, but I also changed when I ate and eat. And that's once a day.

• 6:51Ed Mylett?

  Is there a particular time every day for you?

• 6:53Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yes, dinner. I have a pretty big dinner because I've got to make up for all those calories. But I find that the not snacking and not having this bloated feeling after a meal is just wonderful. What I've so I study myself, I'm a guinea pig and I can measure my blood levels through these continuous glucose monitors. Have you tried one?

• 7:11Ed Mylett?

  Yes, yeah, just finished with one as a matter of fact.

• 7:13Dr. David Sinclair?

  Do you find it useful?

• 7:14Ed Mylett?

  Absolutely, yeah. I went to the Human Longevity Center and they've had me do that.

• 7:18Dr. David Sinclair?

  Great, well, there are some doctors that are against it. And, you know, I tweeted out that it's like saying you're against weighing yourself on scales in the bathroom. You should be allowed to measure your body. But why, why would you do that? Well, I did that so I could learn what this fasting or what I call your time restricted feeding is doing to me. And I learned that once I did it for three, four weeks, my liver kicked in. My liver woke up and went, oh, I better make some sugar. And it's called gluconeogenesis. And it takes three weeks on average, but and you'll feel hungry for three weeks. And if you want to get through that, then it's a wonderful state. I'm, I'm now at a state where I don't feel hungry through most of the day. Usually if I snack on something, it's a bit of chocolate or some nuts because I'm a bit stressed.

• 8:03Dr. David Sinclair?

  But I, I love eating now more than I ever did.

• 8:07Ed Mylett?

  Yeah.

• 8:07Dr. David Sinclair?

  And I can have big meals. It's only one a day.

• 8:09Ed Mylett?

  But you can go for it.

• 8:10Dr. David Sinclair?

  I can go for it. I've gone from a hundred and I'm not a big guy, but I've gone from a hundred and fifty pounds pre COVID down to a hundred and thirty three.

• 8:17Ed Mylett?

  Yeah, you, you're thinner than the last time you were with me and you look younger than the last time you were with me. Like, like noticeably. I'm curious, though, like you're drinking coffee right now. I know you've drank tequila because we've been drinking it together. So you do still indulge in things that I, I, most people will tell you alcohol is not very healthy for you. So you still live your life and you can still live a long life and still enjoy it, I guess. Because I'm watching you do it, you know, two times we've been together.

• 8:42Dr. David Sinclair?

  That's true. The key is moderation. I don't have to be religious about it or strictly religious. I think it's okay to have a drink once in a while. Don't overdo it. Don't fry your brain. Coffee, no harm in that, plenty of goodness in that. You know, usually I'd have a matcha tea or something these days because there's some extra chemicals, but. You know, in general, it's okay to eat a piece of cake once in a while. That's not going to hurt you. But if you eat a piece of cake every other day or every day, yeah, it'll mount up.

• 9:08Ed Mylett?

  Yeah, the thing that's fascinating me is this topic that we're talking about. It's the number one topic amongst me, my friends, even stuff I see on socials, this idea of living longer and living healthier. Yet I like this today's show will explode. I already know this when I'm having you on because there's so little real, true information about this stuff. And so you were talking about like what you put in your body. Well, I put a lot of steak in my body and I've heard you talk about this, right? So what is, what's an mTOR level? So I read these things and they're, they could be higher, they could be mTOR levels. I just read stuff and then I remember them my way. So what about eating meat and what's an mTOR level? Am I pronouncing that wrong? You can correct me, but I know that it's important because it's stuff that I heard you talk about before.

• 9:54Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, you're pronouncing it correctly. It's called mTOR.

• 9:56Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 9:56Dr. David Sinclair?

  M stands for mammalian.

• 9:58Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 9:58Dr. David Sinclair?

  And Tor is target of rapamycin, a drug that extends lifespan. And it does so by turning down mTOR.

• 10:05Ed Mylett?

  Got it.

• 10:05Dr. David Sinclair?

  Okay, so mTOR is a, is a protein or a bunch of proteins that come together in the body. And the role in every cell is to sense how many amino acids are coming in. And it doesn't measure all 20 amino acids that are in the body. It just senses three main ones. Leucine, isoleucine, valine, branched chain amino acids. You'll find them in abundance in meat. And, uh, and some protein shakes for weightlifting, right? And what, what it's doing is saying to the cell, all right, I got lots of protein. Put on, let's put on some muscle, let's grow.

• 10:36Ed Mylett?

  Yes.

• 10:36Dr. David Sinclair?

  Reproduce. That's the abundance state. Okay, so in the, you'll feel great in the short run.

• 10:42Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 10:42Dr. David Sinclair?

  And you'll feel great, you might look great. But the, for the long run, your, your body's not putting yourself in this hormesis adversity state.

• 10:49Ed Mylett?

  Got it.

• 10:49Dr. David Sinclair?

  Which is good for long-term health.

• 10:51Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 10:51Dr. David Sinclair?

  So what I'm, I'm experimenting with my body all the time and measuring stuff.

• 10:55Ed Mylett?

  Yeah.

• 10:55Dr. David Sinclair?

  And I'm optimizing. And I'm currently on a plant-based diet. Now, I really don't like giving up meat. I'm a carnivore, I'm a hedonist, I like alcohol and I like, I like meat.

• 11:05Ed Mylett?

  This is good.

• 11:06Dr. David Sinclair?

  I would love it if alcohol and meat were the healthiest foods in the world.

• 11:09Ed Mylett?

  They've made us live to two hundred, right?

• 11:10Dr. David Sinclair?

  Really, but, but I'm a scientist and I also, I, I believe in data. Not just what I think should be right. And often I think too many people just justify, yeah, I like meat, so it must be good for me.

• 11:18Ed Mylett?

  Right.

• 11:19Dr. David Sinclair?

  So I'm currently testing the effects. So far, really great effects on my body from this plant-based diet. But, you know, if, if I had a fish put in front of me and I was socializing or even a steak, no, on occasion I'll have it. It's not, again, it's not gonna hurt me, but am I gonna eat steak every night? No, no way.

• 11:34Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 11:34Dr. David Sinclair?

  I don't think the science backs that up to be long-term healthy, you know? Am I gonna make it to a hundred by eating steak every night? I'd say it's quite doubtful.

• 11:41Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 11:42Dr. David Sinclair?

  Unless you've got really good parents and genes, which I don't, by the way.

• 11:45Ed Mylett?

  Neither do I.

• 11:46Dr. David Sinclair?

  So I have to work a little harder, yeah, that's.

• 11:47Ed Mylett?

  That's right, we've talked about that before.

• 11:49Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah.

• 11:49Ed Mylett?

  So the steak thing is, uh, no, so this, this overall, like a lot of people that listen to my show, they, you know, all different sorts, but there is a segment that really train hard. You know, they lift weights, they're actively very physical. So I'm wondering two things that we've covered so far, just so I can ask for them, because I'm hearing them say this. One, on the idea that what I'm calling intermittent fasting, which you're calling having these smaller feeding windows. Would you still recommend that for someone who's putting themselves under really strenuous exercise? I'm talking, you know, an hour, ninety minutes a day of strenuous exercise, number one. Number two, can you get enough protein to sustain that sort of muscle tear down and rebuilding without eating meat, particularly steak and even, you know, some sorts of chicken? What are your thoughts on those two things?

• 12:33Dr. David Sinclair?

  Right, uh, well, many people have seen the, the documentary Game Changers.

• 12:37Ed Mylett?

  Yes, I've seen it, that's why I'm asking you.

• 12:39Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, well, you can, you just have to eat a lot more of plants, you know, tons of spinach, a lot, right? To make up for it.

• 12:46Ed Mylett?

  A lot, a lot.

• 12:46Dr. David Sinclair?

  It's really quite a lot, um, or you can, you can take, uh, some protein, but what's different about plants is they have a different ratio of amino acids that shuts down the mTOR and then protects the body.

• 12:57Ed Mylett?

  Got it.

• 12:58Dr. David Sinclair?

  And what mTOR is doing that's beneficial is it, mainly what it does is recycles old protein. And as we get older, we build up all this old crappy protein that's oxidized and misfolded, causes Alzheimer's, but it's causing all sorts of diseases. And mTOR, when it senses there's not enough amino acid supply, it'll start recycling your old proteins first, not the young ones. And, and then that turnover is what fasting is all about.

• 13:22Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 13:22Dr. David Sinclair?

  And if you're eating a lot of meat. You won't turn over the old protein and that'll build up and build up and build up. So I think probably what will find the optimum is, and if you allow me to speculate

• 13:34Ed Mylett?

  Yeah.

• 13:34Dr. David Sinclair?

  as a scientist, is that it's all about variety. And even if you're a steak lover or three meals a day plus snacks and you want to build up your body, you'll still benefit from some periods during the week or during the month of skipping meals and putting your body in a state where it does recycle those proteins and get mTOR to shut down. Because if mTOR is on all the time, we know this in animals, they live short. It's like live fast, die young.

• 13:59Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 13:59Dr. David Sinclair?

  They look great, but they die young. And I'm all about having a long, healthy life.

• 14:04Ed Mylett?

  I know you are, yeah.

• 14:05Dr. David Sinclair?

  But I think weightlifting is really important. I do it myself, not as much as I should for lack of time, but the benefits there are huge on male hormones, women as well.

• 14:14Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 14:14Dr. David Sinclair?

  You don't just look good, you feel good, you have bounce in your step.

• 14:17Ed Mylett?

  Yeah.

• 14:17Dr. David Sinclair?

  So I'm all for that. Bit of aerobics as well, of course, is essential as well to get your body into what's called the hypoxic, low oxygen state.

• 14:25Ed Mylett?

  Yes.

• 14:25Dr. David Sinclair?

  And that will trigger the same defenses that we're talking about as fasting.

• 14:29Ed Mylett?

  Mm hmm.

• 14:30Dr. David Sinclair?

  And this is the theme, Ed, is that this hormesis effect, it can be triggered in many different ways through the same mechanisms. One is lack of these amino acids. The other is, I just mentioned, exercise and low oxygen. But you can also do a cold plunge, you can do a sauna. There's even hyperbaric oxygen chambers. Have you heard of these?

• 14:50Ed Mylett?

  Of course.

• 14:50Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yes, so, yeah. Big thing in California here.

• 14:53Ed Mylett?

  It is.

• 14:53Dr. David Sinclair?

  Not so much in Massachusetts, but yet. But what we're doing is putting the body out of its normal, healthy state for a little bit to see. You know, when you weight lift, you're tearing muscle.

• 15:02Ed Mylett?

  Right, that's why I want, I think, I was hoping you were going to tell me that physical strenuous training like that is in fact putting your body in that survival hormesis type state.

• 15:11Dr. David Sinclair?

  A hundred percent.

• 15:12Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 15:12Dr. David Sinclair?

  And there's a type of hormesis that's particularly beneficial, which I don't talk about much, so it's good to share it here. It's called mitohormesis.

• 15:19Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 15:20Dr. David Sinclair?

  So you know mitochondria, the power packs of the cell, they're little ancient bacteria that swim in our cells. And they can multiply and we want more of them to be healthy. And as we get older, we have less and less of them and they're not very active. Now, one way to trigger their activity, to make them younger and more abundant is to give them some stress, give them some perceived. Adversity or hormesis, mitohormesis. So, one way to do that is to exercise, okay? And you'll get free radicals, damage the mitochondria. They'll go, holy crap, I don't make enough mu- um, energy. I was gonna say money. I can tell what's on my mind.

• 15:54Ed Mylett?

  You need both.

• 15:54Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah. Uh, they don't make enough energy and then they multiply and then you get younger. Okay? The other thing you can do is, um, because you're running out of oxygen, those mitochondria get worried that there's not enough and they need to make more. But also having high pressure bar- high barometric pressure oxygen, this H B O T. I think that it's working in part because it's also causing free radicals in mitochondria and making the mitochondria panic. So, it's interesting, right? You can, you can run out of oxygen by running, literally running, or have too much oxygen. And this, I think it's the same effect. It's those power packs of the cell getting worried that something's out of whack.

• 16:32Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 16:32Dr. David Sinclair?

  And they adjust and it's just like exercise. Um, you get the benefits and the same is true for all these other things that we do. If you're cold, that cold shock will boost your mitochondrial activity.

• 16:43Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 16:47Ed Mylett?

  So, this idea of these cold plunges, everybody talks about, which I've been talking about for like six years. I didn't do it for that reason. I did it more for the discipline of it, the breathing, the, I'm gonna do something difficult early in the morning. It's gonna wake up my nervous system. Now, I'm finding out that it's gonna help me get into this hormesis state and potentially live a little bit longer. I gotta ask you about this, because it's just stuff, the topics that I keep reading about to keep coming back. A M P K. Okay. My understanding of it is it helps, it's, it's active somehow in lipid metabolism somehow, right? Am I, am I getting in the right area here?

• 17:19Dr. David Sinclair?

  It does both.

• 17:20Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 17:20Dr. David Sinclair?

  Its main role is controlling sugar metabolism.

• 17:22Ed Mylett?

  Okay, so sugar. So, uh, let's just step back a little bit, because you talked about glucose monitor earlier. And I know that my, both my heart doctor, the people who are trying to get me to live longer, they're obsessed with my ability to metabolize glucose and that whole process in the body. And so, why does, what, what, what does glucose do to us? Why is it important that we metabolize it well or have less of it? Does that cause inflammation in the body overall? Or are there other detrimental effects in the body from glucose?

• 17:50Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, so, so having high blood sugar is just known to accelerate aging. There's no question about it.

• 17:55Ed Mylett?

  But then why though?

• 17:55Dr. David Sinclair?

  Why?

• 17:56Ed Mylett?

  Yeah, why?

• 17:56Dr. David Sinclair?

  So, there, there's a couple of reasons. That, that there's a, a very simple reason and a very, um, practical explanation, which is that the glucose that circulates in your body. Can be used for fuel, but it can also inadvertently get attached to your proteins.

• 18:12Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 18:12Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah. And then when you've got this glucose attached to proteins, they malfunction. So that's part of this buildup. That's why you want to have some intermittent fasting, restricted feeding to turn over these glucuronidated proteins.

• 18:28Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 18:28Dr. David Sinclair?

  And one of the ways to measure diabetes.

• 18:31Ed Mylett?

  Yes.

• 18:31Dr. David Sinclair?

  Is to measure the glucose that's attached to your hemoglobin, which is an abundant protein in your red blood cells. And doctors take that measurement, it's called HbA1c, that tells you how much glucose you've had in your body roughly for the last month. Cause hemoglobin lasts in the body for about three months and it's turned over. And that number gives you a good idea of whether you've been eating badly and/or you've got type 2 diabetes, which is the inability to utilize that blood sugar.

• 18:59Ed Mylett?

  And I don't want to interrupt you, but or trending towards, correct?

• 19:02Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah.

• 19:02Ed Mylett?

  That's the big, is that not the big thing that most people that are going to go, that are having this monitor, they're not probably at type 2 yet, but they're trending in that direction if they don't do something about it.

• 19:11Dr. David Sinclair?

  For sure. And that's why it's important to measure it even when you're young.

• 19:14Ed Mylett?

  Right.

• 19:14Dr. David Sinclair?

  You don't want it to be going up and up and up. By the time it's, you're type 2 diabetic, it's often too late. And so I measure, I've been measuring mine for the last, over a decade.

• 19:23Ed Mylett?

  Okay. I'll bet the vast majority of the people listening to this have never done that or do it once every three years in some random lab test that they do, right?

• 19:30Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah. Well, doctors don't pay a lot of attention to it until you're old or really obese. So you're starting to show signs of type 2 diabetes, which will accelerate your aging for sure. So that's one problem with glucose. It'll attach to proteins and make them malfunction. And it's a sign of type 2 diabetes. By the way, the numbers are based on the percentage of your hemoglobin that has glucose attached to it, stuck to it. Anything below 5% is really great. Between five and seven is pre and then roughly, and then over seven, then you've got to, you know, be worried. And your doctor will start to treat it. And one of the drugs that's used, we'll talk about later, I think, is metformin. But, but what's also important, I think, is to understand that there's probably another mechanism to how this is working,

• 20:14Dr. David Sinclair?

  because it's not just about blood sugar. By activating this AMPK you mentioned.

• 20:19Ed Mylett?

  Yes.

• 20:20Dr. David Sinclair?

  Actually, I gotta take it a real quick step back because there are three main things that keep us healthy when we feel hormesis or do hormesis. You've mentioned mTOR, which is sensing amino acids. The ones that I work on are called sirtuins. They measure NAD and a whole bunch of stress in the body, exercise, diet. The one that we're talking about is the third one, which is called AMPK. And it registers the amount of energy in the body. Glucose and chemical energy, which is called ATP that mitochondria make.

• 20:51Ed Mylett?

  Yes.

• 20:52Dr. David Sinclair?

  And as we get older, our body makes less and less energy. And AMPK is the control system. And AMPK is activated by a bunch of things, which include being hungry and exercising or taking the drug metformin. And that's probably why they're all good for you, because it turns on these defenses.

• 21:11Ed Mylett?

  This is awesome. Okay, I'm getting it. All right.

• 21:14Dr. David Sinclair?

  And so think of your glucose as doing two things. One is sticking to proteins and wrecking the proteins. And you need to turn those over by fasting or eating less regularly. But also, if you always have sugar in your body, high levels, either diabetically, just eating cake every day.

• 21:28Ed Mylett?

  Yes.

• 21:29Dr. David Sinclair?

  Or sugar in your coffee. What you're doing is telling the body, there's an abundance right now. And your AMPK defenses are not turned on. Unless you take metformin, which might bypass that. But what I try to do in my life is to turn on all of those three systems. The sirtuins with boosting NAD, AMPK by taking metformin and exercising. And then the mTOR, not taking an abundance of those three amino acids I mentioned, leucine, isleucine, valine. And together, I think they work as a system. We know they talk to each other. And you tweak one, the other works. We don't know what the optimal combination is. That I'm experimenting on myself as a.

• 22:06Ed Mylett?

  Depending on you, brother, the ball of humanity is waiting on you here. So let's, let's go. But I want to, I want to step back in here. If you're listening to this, you're learning a ton for most of you. And for me, it's just stuff like, hey, I'm going to investigate this mTOR stuff a little bit more. I'm going to start to learn more about it if I was you. This AMPK, what is glucose doing in my body? Start to learn about these things. And then now we'll step back and get a little bit practical just for a second here. I want to ask you some specific things. So just detailed stuff. You mentioned earlier this idea of hyperbaric oxygen. I've had someone on the show who's this proponent of doing cardio with oxygen under, so getting oxygen under load, meaning that when you're, you're taking his a big oxygen tank that I do it, and I take this oxygen under load.

• 22:49Ed Mylett?

  But one of the other things that he's a proponent of is following that, and there's a protocol before it as well, is red light therapy. I'm wondering if you've done any reading about red light therapy, any research on it, and just straight up, what are your thoughts on red light? Cause it's sort of like, I don't know if it's the new thing, but it's kind of like the new thing.

• 23:06Dr. David Sinclair?

  Right, well, it's my job to stay up on, on these things and even to try them myself. It, it brought a smile to my face when I was reading the science on the red light therapy.

• 23:15Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 23:15Dr. David Sinclair?

  And the hyperbaric oxygen and the oxygen, um, high oxygen under, under training you do it.

• 23:20Ed Mylett?

  Yeah, under load, just load, you know, you're under stress.

• 23:23Dr. David Sinclair?

  Got it.

• 23:23Ed Mylett?

  Yeah.

• 23:24Dr. David Sinclair?

  So they all point to mitochondria again, even the red light. There are scientific papers that I could pull out that show that the red light at that, at that wavelength is disrupting the ability of mitochondria to make energy. The way mitochondria make energy is that it's like a hot potato. They take electrons and they pass them along. Red light disrupts that, and then you have low energy and your AMPK system detects low energy and starts to give you the health benefits because it's worried that you're gonna run out of energy. So light, oxygen, hunger, simulating low energy, or in some cases actually is low energy.

• 24:07Ed Mylett?

  Good, so I'm doing the right thing. So you, so in English, in, in layman's terms, red light probably good.

• 24:15Dr. David Sinclair?

  Well, for sure. I mean, it's been shown to protect against hair loss and improve skin. So there's something to it. I tried shining some red light on some nematode worms to make them live longer. It didn't work, but that was a few years ago. I think there's a lot more data now that it's, it's likely to be working similar to exercise and fasting, but through a light mechanism, which is actually easier than these other things. And stimulating stem cells.

• 24:40Ed Mylett?

  Mm hmm.

• 24:40Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, you can buy a cap. You can get a cap that you put on your hair. I mean, you've probably seen on, not you, but.

• 24:45Ed Mylett?

  Yeah, no, I have. I was losing my hair and I did it. And then I've also, I lay in a red light bed. They're very expensive. So it's not something everybody can do. You can go to a spa and do it yourself, you know, and pay every time you go. But I have actually acquired one of those beds, so.

• 24:59Dr. David Sinclair?

  Have you noticed that?

• 25:00Ed Mylett?

  I have. I'll be honest with you. I've noticed, um, I've noticed, well, I mean, everyone can judge. I noticed a little bit of improvement in my skin, but I've noticed a difference in, I think the two things I've noticed for me, and it could be completely anecdotal, right? But I've noticed certainly an improvement in my skin, but I've noticed my sleep is better. Um, and I would say that my overall ability to sustain energy has been better. And frankly, I have not gained weight, even though my diet deteriorated since I've begun. It's not something I'm proud to admit on the show, but I'm a pretty, pretty, uh, you know, focused guy when it comes to what I eat and I put in my body. And I've went through a little window here the last three or four months where I just wasn't as diligent or vigilant about it. And I've not gained weight.

• 25:42Ed Mylett?

  And I don't know that any of that is connected to the two, but it's certainly something that I've experienced since I've been doing it.

• 25:49Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah. And that, and how long do you spend in the light?

• 25:52Ed Mylett?

  Uh, the cycles are usually 15 to 20 minutes and I like, I try to do it twice a day.

• 25:56Dr. David Sinclair?

  Oh, oh.

• 25:57Ed Mylett?

  And my bed has different settings, you know, one's for immunity, one can be for energy and things like that. And I just, you know, it's one of those things as you're doing, you're like, am I wasting my time here? Or is there some benefit to it? So I'm glad to hear that at least the studies say that there is.

• 26:09Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah.

• 26:09Ed Mylett?

  Okay, good. Well, let's talk about other things we can do that are, that are beneficial. So we'll get to practical stuff people can do. First thing is that we talked about this the last time you were here, but you know, telomeres has been sort of one of the newer age or was ways of measuring aging. And you sort of told me, nah, that's not it. How do we, you said my, my real age is younger than, or your, your actual age is younger than your real age. How are you measuring that? How is one measuring age now?

• 26:38Dr. David Sinclair?

  Well, a couple of ways.

• 26:39Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 26:40Dr. David Sinclair?

  Uh, I've been working with a company and in disclosure, I was, um, I am an advisor to them. Uh, InsideTracker. They came out of MIT, saw them about 12 years ago, uh, joined their board. I'm not on there anymore, but have nurtured this company because I really believe in it. What they do is it's a blood test. You can have it done at your local LabCorp or Quest, or even have someone come to your kitchen, which is what I do.

• 27:01Ed Mylett?

  Mm hmm.

• 27:02Dr. David Sinclair?

  And I do it, you know, every three to six months and it's a dashboard on my body. And then those 40 measurements of things that I mentioned, like HbA1C, there's other things like CRP for inflammation.

• 27:14Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 27:14Dr. David Sinclair?

  Of course, blood glucose levels, there's testosterone, vitamin levels. It's a compendium that put into an algorithm that's based on how these things change over time with age for your sex and, um, I guess your, your, uh, your race and other things.

• 27:28Ed Mylett?

  Mm hmm.

• 27:29Dr. David Sinclair?

  And then it's back calculated to say, all right, compared to other humans on the planet, are you older or younger than them?

• 27:33Ed Mylett?

  Hmm.

• 27:34Dr. David Sinclair?

  The average male.

• 27:35Ed Mylett?

  Mm hmm.

• 27:36Dr. David Sinclair?

  So I can plot, I have plotted myself for all of these parameters individually and as a compendium, as a, as an algorithm for one score called the inner age 2.0 score.

• 27:44Ed Mylett?

  Hmm.

• 27:45Dr. David Sinclair?

  Where do I sit compared to other 52 year olds?

• 27:47Ed Mylett?

  Mm hmm.

• 27:48Dr. David Sinclair?

  That are white Caucasians.

• 27:49Ed Mylett?

  So young, yeah.

• 27:50Dr. David Sinclair?

  Uh, and I'm, I'm in the, the top, you know, I'm not, I'm, I'm better in terms of that number of, uh, than 98% of people my age.

• 27:57Ed Mylett?

  Hmm.

• 27:58Dr. David Sinclair?

  And that 2% bothers me. I'm very competitive.

• 28:00Ed Mylett?

  Hmm.

• 28:00Dr. David Sinclair?

  And I'm working to get it higher. I want to be, I think there's one or two people out of thousands that, that are, that are better than me, but, um, I did go off a statin just to check because I was, I was losing my memory.

• 28:12Ed Mylett?

  Yeah.

• 28:13Dr. David Sinclair?

  With, I, I am on a statin now.

• 28:14Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 28:15Dr. David Sinclair?

  But I went off it and my cholesterol spiked, so.

• 28:17Ed Mylett?

  Your cholesterol did spike.

• 28:18Dr. David Sinclair?

  It did. I mean, I need a statin. It's in my genes. Uh, my father and my grandmother have had.

• 28:22Ed Mylett?

  I'm on one as well.

• 28:23Dr. David Sinclair?

  Oh, you are?

• 28:24Ed Mylett?

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 28:25Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah. I mean, I wouldn't say if you, if you don't have any problems and you can't, if you can get it down with diet, do that because there are effects on the brain.

• 28:32Ed Mylett?

  And one of them is memory.

• 28:33Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah.

• 28:33Ed Mylett?

  Yeah. One of the other things too is that your cholesterol can get too low, your LDL can get too low and that's not healthy for your brain either, correct?

• 28:40Dr. David Sinclair?

  That's really true.

• 28:41Ed Mylett?

  Yeah.

• 28:41Dr. David Sinclair?

  And so, you know, I'm, I'm just saying why, why it's a 2%, I'm in the top 2%, not 1%.

• 28:45Ed Mylett?

  Right.

• 28:45Dr. David Sinclair?

  Right. Uh, but anyway, that people are going to think I'm a little bit, uh, too competitive, but.

• 28:50Ed Mylett?

  Not at all.

• 28:50Dr. David Sinclair?

  Um, I, I have plotted my, my blood biochemistry over the years against the average human and, and optimized each one.

• 28:56Ed Mylett?

  Hmm.

• 28:57Dr. David Sinclair?

  And it takes, it's an experiment. It's long-term. You can't just do it overnight.

• 29:00Ed Mylett?

  Hmm.

• 29:00Dr. David Sinclair?

  But I think that's what. Modern medicine should be is that we're constantly monitoring ourselves, not going to the doctor once a year for a checkup where they say, how do you feel? You're sleeping? You feel okay? Okay, go home. That's not medicine.

• 29:11Ed Mylett?

  Yeah.

• 29:11Dr. David Sinclair?

  That's therapy.

• 29:12Ed Mylett?

  Yep.

• 29:13Dr. David Sinclair?

  Now, medicine is, and the future of medicine, and for some people who want to invest in this and put in their time and money, you can get devices to read your body continuously. We've talked about continuous glucose monitors in our arm, but there are rings. I've got this.

• 29:28Ed Mylett?

  I've got the ring too. I'm just not wearing it today. I've got the water ring.

• 29:31Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah. There are even, there's a bio button. I brought one today in case this came up. I'm, I'm holding up a little gray, squareish device that is maybe what a quarter of an inch thick that I stick on my chest usually, and it measures my heart, my vibrations, my movement. And this thing can tell you if I'm, if you're gonna have a heart attack next week, kind of important. But other things, it can even tell you if you're, if you have a cold or flu, or whether you need antibiotics or not. And this is the future. I, I raise this actually as an example of, of the way medicine should be, which is you are monitored not once a year, but a thousand times a second.

• 30:06Ed Mylett?

  Wow.

• 30:07Dr. David Sinclair?

  And when that's gonna be ubiquitous, then the old way of doing medicine's gonna seem medieval.

• 30:12Ed Mylett?

  It's so true. And, you know, guys, I'm fortunate enough that I have that as well. And it's things like, you know, why do you want things monitored? Because the truth is, most cancers caught early are very treatable. It's catching them late that's a problem. Heart disease caught early is treatable, like we've talked about with, with, you know, statins or anything like that. And I'm not making any medical recommendations, nor am I a doctor, nor am I even close to that. And that's why I want to ask you some medical stuff now, because I know that you don't feel good about a couple of the things that I do, and I want to ask you about why. So, let's talk about things that we can do. So, you talked a minute ago about hormone levels. And so, I have been on, and I, I know what you're gonna say, but I want you to explain your point of view on this to the audience. Full transparency, the audience knows this. I've been on testosterone, some form of testosterone

• 30:57Ed Mylett?

  replacement therapy.

• 31:00Ed Mylett?

  My gosh, it's gotta be 10 or 15 years. And I know that that testosterone, at least in my case negatively, we're getting real detailed here, but it can negatively impact HDL, for example. It can suppress HDL, which mine is already genetically pretty low. So there's a danger, HDL being your good cholesterol. I know that that's a negative to me taking the testosterone. Having said that, I watch friends of mine that I know that are in their 70s that have been males that have been on testosterone therapy for, say, 20 years. And I compare that visually to somebody like my father who passed away last year. And visually, externally, these guys that were on testosterone look 20 years younger than my dad did. And so this, I'm not arguing with you, but I want to understand it. That's why the first thing I asked you today is,

• 31:44Ed Mylett?

  if you visually look younger, are you likely to be internally younger? Because visually, if you take somebody like a very well-known actor that most people know has been open about taking testosterone, who's a friend of mine, makes a lot of like boxing movies and stuff, right? And so you compare him to my father, who is about the same age, and visually, they really looked like different species almost at that age. So what are your thoughts about hormone replacement? And if you're not for it, which I think you probably aren't, specifically why?

• 32:18Dr. David Sinclair?

  Well, I'm all for keeping your hormones at young levels.

• 32:21Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 32:22Dr. David Sinclair?

  I'm all about keeping the body the way it was when it was 20. And however you can do that, and it's safe, do that.

• 32:28Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 32:29Dr. David Sinclair?

  So I'm on board with hormone replacement therapy for women and men if needed.

• 32:34Ed Mylett?

  Okay. But you think maybe not needed. I'm interrupting you.

• 32:37Dr. David Sinclair?

  Well, that's the point, that I have tried my best to find ways in myself to.

• 32:46Ed Mylett?

  So you're 52, you're in that 300 to 700 range of testosterone in your body, you're saying right now? Your hormone levels are that normal in your 50s without any?

• 32:53Dr. David Sinclair?

  I'm actually naturally higher than an average 20-year-old. And but naturally, meaning I've worked at it. I've changed things in my diet. I've done things and it's gone.

• 33:04Ed Mylett?

  What are some of those things?

• 33:06Dr. David Sinclair?

  Well, uh, exercise helped building up, um, I'm not as bulky as you, that's for sure, but, but from my basal state, which was pretty puny to having some muscle, uh, my quads mainly, big muscles, back muscles as well, doing um, deadlifts, this kind of stuff. Um, so that helped a lot, got it up to, was hovering around 500.

• 33:26Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 33:27Dr. David Sinclair?

  Um, it's gone close to double that, um, over the last couple of years with changes to my diet, um, changes with supplements, but I, I didn't actually, I can't tell you scientifically which one of those has contributed, but it's steadily gone up, which, which is good. Um, if it had plummeted, I would have stopped taking X, whatever it was.

• 33:47Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 33:47Dr. David Sinclair?

  Um, but it's, I'm, I'm happy with these numbers, so it's just under, near a thousand now.

• 33:54Ed Mylett?

  My, that's amazing.

• 33:56Dr. David Sinclair?

  Uh, it's, it's shock, shocking actually, because I haven't done anything obvious. You know, you read in online, what boosts testosterone? I'm not doing a lot of that stuff. Um, so I guess I'm lucky that way.

• 34:08Ed Mylett?

  So that was one of the genetic good hands you were dealt compared to some of the other stuff that wasn't so favorable. That's because that's unbelievably high for 52 years old.

• 34:15Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah. Well, so, you know, I want to be helpful practically. Uh, so, some of the things that I do are, so this fasting has helped, I think that when I started, well, I don't call it fasting, eating once a day, one meal a day.

• 34:28Ed Mylett?

  I got you calling it fasting now.

• 34:30Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, that's okay. People know what, what that is. Um, O M A T, A D is the other way to do it. Uh, to call it one meal a day, but that seemed to help. And so also become giving up a lot of fat and a lot of meat. Now, that's not going to sound good to everybody, I know.

• 34:48Ed Mylett?

  But I want them to know.

• 34:50Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, but I think that that's helped and I, I did lose weight, uh, and that may have contributed to, right? I mentioned how much weight I've lost. Um, but here's the thing, I don't think it's a bad thing to supplement at all. I'm not against it. I think what you're doing is perfectly acceptable.

• 35:04Ed Mylett?

  But I'd heard you say something about burning the candle at both ends. What did you mean by that?

• 35:08Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah. So it's, it's an abundance signal. Testosterone is, okay, yep, times are good, build muscle.

• 35:16Dr. David Sinclair?

  But then I have to look at the clinical data. And while it won't extend your lifespan, and that's really clear. There've been probably fifty million dollars worth of clinical trials saying that testosterone won't make you live longer. It will help you have more muscle, which will prevent you falling over and breaking your bones, which is a problem for most elderly. So that's good.

• 35:38Dr. David Sinclair?

  But there's also not a lot of downside. There's very little, if any, that I've seen. There's not more cancer.

• 35:43Ed Mylett?

  There isn't.

• 35:44Dr. David Sinclair?

  No, no. So, put it this way, it's not gonna hurt you. If you feel better and you're stronger and you look better, you know, by all means. And this is why doctors prescribe it. Otherwise, you know, there'd be a warning. But is it, is it gonna make you live longer? Doesn't look like it, unfortunately.

• 36:04Ed Mylett?

  One of the challenges I think with it is that, you know, for most people, if some is good, a whole bunch is better. And what I find with people that start to take hormones is you need to be, I think it can become a formative addiction. And that you're like, well, I'm at eight hundred, I look like this. Let me get this thing to fifteen hundred and see what I really look like. And then there are some unhealthy things, your hemoglobin levels, things like that that you've mentioned already. There are things that can get out of whack that if you're not, you know, you're really careful with it. So that's some of the stuff. I just wanted to ask you that because it's, it's been very common for women to become on, you know, some form of hormone replacement too. And I've just, in my own case, I'm at, my last labs, I was only at four hundred with supplementation. And one of the negatives, I think certainly for me, is that my own body has probably

• 36:47Ed Mylett?

  made a decision that it doesn't need to work at it anymore or produce it because I've got this exogenous stuff I keep shoving in my body. So I do know that, once I've made that commitment, I'm sort of committed for life. So there are some, I'm not proponent or, or of it necessarily. I wouldn't, I certainly wouldn't recommend starting it until you need to, until those levels are lower. And here I am telling you what I propose, which is a really fascinating part of the interview. So we've got that. How about any of the peptides? So I'm curious about growth hormone. Yay or nay?

• 37:19Dr. David Sinclair?

  Nay.

• 37:19Ed Mylett?

  Nay. Why?

• 37:21Dr. David Sinclair?

  Well, because there's a lot of evidence, both human and mouse, that when you have low amounts of growth hormone, you live longer. And while, again, it's this abundance versus adversity.

• 37:31Ed Mylett?

  Mm hmm.

• 37:32Dr. David Sinclair?

  You'll you'll feel better with growth hormone.

• 37:34Ed Mylett?

  Mm hmm.

• 37:34Dr. David Sinclair?

  You'll heal better. Uh, but long term, all the evidence points to the opposite, that having low levels of these growth signals is better for you.

• 37:43Ed Mylett?

  Tumor wise as well? This mTOR pathway thing, part of the other part of it is um its impact on tumors, right? Is there some relationship between those two things with tumors? And does growth hormone impact the size of a tumor? Is it telling everything in your body to grow? For example, potentially?

• 37:58Dr. David Sinclair?

  Uh, I mean, potentially, but fortunately, there's there's not a lot of uh evidence that growth hormone does cause cancer.

• 38:06Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 38:06Dr. David Sinclair?

  Um, so I would say that uh

• 38:09Ed Mylett?

  But could it cause a cancer in your body to grow potentially?

• 38:12Dr. David Sinclair?

  Well, if you've got one.

• 38:12Ed Mylett?

  Yeah.

• 38:13Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, I mean, that's part of the downside of all of these treatments is that it's it's all fine until you get a tumor and then and then you could actually help the tumor.

• 38:21Ed Mylett?

  Do you feel that way about testosterone? Or are you saying that about growth hormone or both?

• 38:25Dr. David Sinclair?

  Uh, growth hormone more.

• 38:26Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 38:26Dr. David Sinclair?

  Testosterone, I I think that it's fine.

• 38:28Ed Mylett?

  Okay. I know this is stuff you don't normally get asked, that's why I wanted to go there.

• 38:32Dr. David Sinclair?

  Uh, sure.

• 38:33Ed Mylett?

  Yeah.

• 38:33Dr. David Sinclair?

  Um, and then um the other thing that I take that I think keeps my, I think, um, at least, let's say, the evidence points to, I have to speak like a Harvard professor sometimes, uh, is that um by by activating these other enzymes that are the the second component out of those three, the sirtuins I work on.

• 38:51Ed Mylett?

  Mm hmm.

• 38:52Dr. David Sinclair?

  You can activate those by doing the kind of things I do in my life, but I can also take a supplement uh which raises N A D, capital N A D.

• 39:00Ed Mylett?

  Mm hmm.

• 39:01Dr. David Sinclair?

  And there, people are taking IVs of N A D supplements. It's a big thing. It was discovered in my lab um uh in part uh what, about two thousand two?

• 39:11Ed Mylett?

  Mm hmm.

• 39:12Dr. David Sinclair?

  When I was a kid. Uh, but it's now a big thing. And the reason that N A D is popular is that it activates these sirtuins.

• 39:18Ed Mylett?

  Yes.

• 39:19Dr. David Sinclair?

  And we have seven of those in the body. We talked about this last time. The seven uh sirtuins are the protectors of the body. There are three of them that protect the DNA. And the clock slows down, we think, and then some of them are in mitochondria. There's three there. And then there's one that floats around in between in the, in the water that's in between all of that. And that's number two. Um, now, Certy two controls hormone production. Uh, and if you give it to cells, they'll make more androgens. And one possibility is the reason my testosterone is doing pretty well is I've got super high NAD levels because I've been supplementing for about seven years now with NM, which is a precursor to NAD.

• 39:59Ed Mylett?

  Say there, okay, I want to go there. So that was the next thing on my list was NAD. So of the people that I know that look freakishly and unusually young for their age that I have met in, say, the last thirty six months, I cannot get over how many of them have told me that I'm on NAD and I'm on Metformin. And I'm talking about everywhere from a gym to a golf course to a business meeting. And I'm talking about visually, shockingly looking young people, mainly people in their fifties that look like they could be in their thirties or early forties to me. So when you say NAD, do you believe in the IV therapy? Do you believe in the, uh, the stuff you can inject with, uh, subcutaneously?

• 40:42Ed Mylett?

  Or are you speaking specifically about this precursor that you were referencing?

• 40:46Dr. David Sinclair?

  Well, what I believe, um, doesn't so much matter, but the scientific evidence points to, uh, taking a supplement every day, a gram of NM, which is, is precursor, uh, stands for nicotinamide mononucleotide for the aficionados. Um, just swallowing one of those, uh, a thousand milligrams is enough to double your NAD levels in the bloodstream, um, and triple it if you take two grams. Now I'm, I'm fifty two, so if I'm, if, if I'm an average human, I would have half the levels of this NAD molecule than a twenty year old. So doubling it is the goal for me. So I've been taking a gram of NM, swallowing it every day for, you know, the last, whatever it is, dozen years, seven years at least. Um, then the question is, what about the NAD IVs? There's very little data on that.

• 41:31Ed Mylett?

  Yeah.

• 41:33Dr. David Sinclair?

  I would say that I have tried it. Um, I've found that it it felt fine.

• 41:39Ed Mylett?

  Yeah.

• 41:39Dr. David Sinclair?

  Especially afterwards during it. Have you tried it?

• 41:41Ed Mylett?

  It's. I have.

• 41:42Dr. David Sinclair?

  Got a little cramping in the tummy area.

• 41:44Ed Mylett?

  It does. That's yes. And I found that on the IV and also I've taken it sub Q and I get a real burning uncomfortable sensation in my stomach. It's ironic that you say that.

• 41:54Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah.

• 41:54Ed Mylett?

  It's exactly my experience.

• 41:55Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah. So that there's some evidence that it's good for treating addiction. But really no solid scientific evidence that it helps in other ways yet. But that doesn't mean it doesn't help. It just means that.

• 42:08Ed Mylett?

  It hasn't been studied enough.

• 42:08Dr. David Sinclair?

  Doctors haven't done enough placebo controls.

• 42:10Ed Mylett?

  Mm hmm.

• 42:11Dr. David Sinclair?

  And it's hard to give people a placebo, especially if they're paying for it.

• 42:14Ed Mylett?

  Yeah.

• 42:14Dr. David Sinclair?

  Right, so I I would say the jury's still out, but the science, I think, is is there that it should activate the sirtuins, kick them into action. And at least for those few hours that you're getting it and it'll go up, probably double, triple the levels in your bloodstream. Uh, it'll help, uh, but I don't know long term.

• 42:32Ed Mylett?

  I'm so fascinated by the stuff as everybody can tell. So you're getting stuff here you don't get most other places, you guys. So, um, these are just things to think about. These aren't necessarily recommendations, things about, things to think about. Then there's metformin. And, um, so, so just, you know, I must say this to you. You and I met, this is a passion of mine. I've also had a not great genetic hand. By the way, guys, there's all kinds of stuff we could talk about on genetics today that you can get studied right now to see if you're predisposed to heart disease or different cancers. You can even find out if it came from your mother or your father's side. There's all kinds of things you could figure out right now. My genetic hand is crap. It's just mom and dad's side and both not good and both cancers and heart disease. So when I met David originally, th- this conversation really mattered to me. And so I did start on metformin. I, this is just me personally.

• 43:17Ed Mylett?

  I'm telling everybody my own medical stuff. I, uh, did start, um, on, uh, the, uh, precursor for N A D. And I've tried the IV stuff and I've tried the sub Q stuff myself. So metformin helps with glucose in the body somehow, the metabolism of glucose, correct? So why does that? Why do you think metformin works? And, and, um, do you feel real strong like you did last time that you're here about it?

• 43:44Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, I feel even stronger. There's a lot of data from looking at tens of thousands of people that went on metformin and people who go on metformin who have type 2 diabetes, who normally would live a short lifespan because they have more cardiovascular disease, they're aging faster, they're actually protected from these diseases relatively. And those type 2 diabetics on metformin live longer than people that don't have type 2 diabetes. That's a remarkable observation. And because, once you start to study tens of thousands of people, it starts to look real. Especially for those people that are predisposed like you are to cardiovascular disease and other issues like cancer, there it's very clear that metformin, on average, protects you against those diseases. Because it's not just working on keeping your glucose levels down. Remember, it's turning on the

• 44:29Dr. David Sinclair?

  mitohormesis and protecting the body through these defense mechanisms. Now, people might be thinking, well, okay, you've got these protective mechanisms, but what are they actually doing to make you healthier? Well, I've mentioned only one of the things they do, which is turning over those old proteins that are either oxidized or have glucose stuck to them. But they do other things. They do protect telomeres when you turn them on. But they do another thing that's really interesting, and that is that they can rejuvenate stem cells. And so you get stem cells protected, and then they can divide, and then they can repopulate the body. Another thing that they do really well, particularly the sirtuins, is that they help repair broken DNA. Anyone who's been in the sun, I was Australian, I've been damaged badly by the sun. That ages you. It actually is, we know that damage

• 45:14Dr. David Sinclair?

  to DNA accelerates aging. In my lab, we can cause a mouse to be 50% older by doing this process. The sirtuins will slow that down. We had a paper in Science in 2018 that showed that by raising NAD levels, by giving mice NMN, same molecule that I take, their DNA repair systems were much more efficient. And if you damage them with radiation, which we were trying to simulate space radiation, but it's also similar to cosmic rays that you get if you fly a lot, which I know you do. NMN was protecting those mice from the damage. And you can see the damage. You look in their livers, there was damage, damage, damage in a normal mouse, and give the NMN, and it wasn't there for the most part. So that's another way it can protect against aging. This is so good, so good.

• 45:58Ed Mylett?

  Um, we're gonna keep going, cuz I love this. Any disclaimers on any of this that we've said so far that you would say to somebody who says, I gotta get on this Metformin or NAD? Is there any disclaimer, any downside, anything you would advise them to do? Just so that I make sure everyone's heard the totality of your thoughts about it?

• 46:15Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, well, one disclaimer is I'm actually not a trained physician. I train physician, but I'm not a trained physician. I'm a PhD who studies molecules. And so there's that. So anytime you wanna change something in your body, even if it's diet, but if it's a supplement, and of course, a drug, you need your doctor. You wanna consult them. So your doctor needs to know everything that's going on in your body cuz supplements are sometimes just as powerful as drugs.

• 46:39Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 46:39Dr. David Sinclair?

  And if you cannot get, for example, this is a good point, I think, to bring up is, if you cannot convince your doctor to get Metformin,

• 46:45Ed Mylett?

  Yeah.

• 46:46Dr. David Sinclair?

  there is an alternative. Uh, you know what I'm gonna say? Uh, it's a plant molecule called berberine, uh, from the berber plant. And if you're in clinical trials, if you take it at two grams a day, uh, it does lower blood glucose, similar to Metformin. And that you can buy on, you know, any pharmacy or online.

• 47:06Ed Mylett?

  Yep.

• 47:10Ed Mylett?

  That's where I began. After we did our interview, I went to my doctor and I said, we're getting on Metformin. And she said, no, we're not, not right now, not yet. And, um, and so that's where I began. And then after a period of time, she did a little bit more research and agreed. Have you done any reading on Motsi at all?

• 47:27Dr. David Sinclair?

  I've done more than reading.

• 47:28Ed Mylett?

  Okay, what do you know about Motsi?

• 47:30Dr. David Sinclair?

  Motsi, well, I know the scientists involved and I helped them start a company.

• 47:33Ed Mylett?

  Come on now, really? Okay.

• 47:35Dr. David Sinclair?

  I'm kind of embedded in this field.

• 47:37Ed Mylett?

  I know, but this is awesome.

• 47:39Dr. David Sinclair?

  I'm older than you might think. Um, so Motsi is really interesting. I really like it.

• 47:43Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 47:44Dr. David Sinclair?

  I liked it so much, I started a company.

• 47:46Ed Mylett?

  Yeah.

• 47:46Dr. David Sinclair?

  So Motsi is, is a super interesting molecule from.

• 47:51Dr. David Sinclair?

  From an academic standpoint.

• 47:53Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 47:53Dr. David Sinclair?

  And from a physiological standpoint.

• 47:55Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 47:56Dr. David Sinclair?

  MOTC is made not by the DNA, from the DNA in the nucleus, which is most of our chromosomes. It's from the chromosome that's in mitochondria. Mitochondria, because they're like these bacteria. They have their own circular DNA. It's not a chromosome, it's circular. And embedded in that circle piece of DNA in the mitochondria is a little gene called MOTC. Capital MOT-C. And the mitochondria make this little peptide, a little piece of a protein. The peptide is just a small protein that gets leached out into the bloodstream. And tells the rest of the body that a certain part of the body is experiencing hormesis. So when you exercise, your body is secreting MOTC into the body.

• 48:40Dr. David Sinclair?

  And MOTC is really small, you can synthesize it. And you can even get it. I don't know if it's still available in the US, but it's in clinical trials right now in this company. It's called COHBA.

• 48:52Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 48:53Dr. David Sinclair?

  And it's looking promising as a treatment for fatty liver, but hopefully other age-related diseases.

• 48:59Ed Mylett?

  Maybe even plaque removal and stuff like that, right? And there's all kinds of fascinating stuff. So I'm so glad that we got a chance to talk about all this stuff today. Okay, so some practical stuff just for a second, or exciting stuff.

• 49:12Ed Mylett?

  CRISPR. We've talked a little bit about CRISPR, but this concept, where are we at able, being able to actually alter DNA? Like I've had some friends of mine that, you know, knew I was going to be talking to you today. And they're like, please get like the update. So tell everyone here what CRISPR specifically is. But where are we at on our, right now, where are we? And if you were to forecast, say, within the next five years, where do you believe we are unable to actually alter DNA that way?

• 49:41Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah. Well, right now, it's. It's possible to add genes to humans. We've cured, not we, but scientists and doctors have cured genetic diseases that way.

• 49:50Ed Mylett?

  Incredible.

• 49:50Dr. David Sinclair?

  Blind people are seeing again.

• 49:52Ed Mylett?

  Yes.

• 49:52Dr. David Sinclair?

  But it's only a small, it's thousands of people, it's not millions yet. But we are getting better at it and eventually, probably in, certainly in this decade, uh, we'll see people being able to add genes to their bodies more commonly. But CRISPR is different. CRISPR is not adding genes, it's actually changing your genetic makeup permanently. Uh, and so where we're at is there are, there are some genes or some studies that have shown that it works in humans. You can correct sickle cell anemia and fix that. That one's a little easier because it's in the bloodstream. Trying to fix Alzheimer's with CRISPR is going to be a lot more challenging. The blood is easy to access. And the way we do it is we put a CRISPR system, which is an enzyme that you can direct

• 50:36Dr. David Sinclair?

  to change the DNA with a barcode. So our DNA has different letters, there's six feet of this DNA molecule in every cell. And there are these four letters ACTG and they're in different, um, sequence. And what CRISPR does that's kind of incredible, if you think about it, is that you can give it a code that says, go find the sequence that's A T G C A G C and it'll find it in billions of combinations in that six foot and go in and just change that.

• 51:08Ed Mylett?

  Incredible.

• 51:09Dr. David Sinclair?

  It is, it's a barcode. And, uh, and so I would say in the next five years, it'll be fairly common to, to fix genetic diseases with CRISPR.

• 51:19Dr. David Sinclair?

  And then, and then things get really interesting when we start to fix things that aren't genetic. Maybe we want to all fix our predisposition to diabetes. We could potentially go in and fix that before we actually get that disease and, and make up for not having great genetic lineages.

• 51:35Ed Mylett?

  If you put a time horizon on that, what would you think something like that would be?

• 51:38Dr. David Sinclair?

  Well, probably for the healthy people, it's going to take longer, right? Doctors would rather do no harm than do good. And so that's probably fifteen years away from being mainstream. There are other technologies, one called siRNA, which is similar, but it actually stops the production of protein rather than changing the genes. It's one step down. And that's being shown, and there's a drug on the market to treat high cholesterol. And even there's a drug for fatty liver. And so increasingly, we're able to change the genetic code or the codes that are coming off the genetic code, which is RNA, which we all have heard about because of COVID.

• 52:17Ed Mylett?

  Right.

• 52:18Dr. David Sinclair?

  But yeah, it's amazing that we can now read the DNA and rewrite it.

• 52:25Dr. David Sinclair?

  And it's, and in my work, we've just recently figured out how to turn on three embryonic genes in the body. And when we do that, just the right three genes, that resets the age of the tissue and it gets rejuvenated.

• 52:39Ed Mylett?

  Are you kidding me? This is work you're doing right now. So in addition, I'm just processing all this. Like, I think when we first talked about this, I'm like, yeah, it'll be in there, like, the adding genes thing, they'll do a little of that, but like to actually alter the genetic sequence of somebody, that won't be in my lifetime. And you're saying that you believe that in some form of that will be in the next five-ish years, we'll be doing that?

• 53:03Dr. David Sinclair?

  Well, there are patients already that have had it done, but for it to be mainstream.

• 53:05Ed Mylett?

  Mainstream.

• 53:06Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah. Five to fifteen, depending on the disease. I mean, the more severe, the faster the FDA acts.

• 53:12Ed Mylett?

  What are the, what are you most excited about right now? Like, in your work, what are you just, this is the stuff I'm the most excited about right now.

• 53:19Dr. David Sinclair?

  That's easy.

• 53:19Ed Mylett?

  Your face just changed too, by the way, when I asked you.

• 53:21Dr. David Sinclair?

  It's easy.

• 53:22Ed Mylett?

  Yeah.

• 53:23Dr. David Sinclair?

  So we published a year ago on the cover of Nature magazine, which is the highlight of any scientist's career, that we could reset the age of a complex tissue. We chose the mouse's eye. We let mice get old and blind, and we reprogrammed their eye using these three genes. They're called O, S, and K for short. And we turned the age back eighty percent and they became, they were able to see again. And so what we're talking about is having found that there's a reset switch in the body to be young again. And the information in the body to be young is still there. So theoretically, you could take someone who's a hundred years old.

• 53:59Ed Mylett?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 54:00Dr. David Sinclair?

  And reset their body to be young again. Now, the exciting thing is we've been doing clinical trials, well, preclinical trials. And there's no apparent downside to this yet.

• 54:09Ed Mylett?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 54:09Dr. David Sinclair?

  Isn't that great?

• 54:10Ed Mylett?

  No, that's incredible.

• 54:12Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, and so I went home that day and I said, hey, we've cured blindness. And my family went, yeah, can you just unpack the dishwasher? That was a sad day. That's when I knew I could never impress my family. But we had been working ever since. We first made this discovery about three years ago. It ended up being in my book, A Little Bit of It. And it was a thrill to make this discovery. But since then, we've been doing the hard work, which is to figure out, is it safe enough to put into humans? And we're now testing it in non-human primates, just to see if it's safe.

• 54:40Ed Mylett?

  My gosh.

• 54:41Dr. David Sinclair?

  And if all goes well, in the next two years, we'll hopefully cure blindness in people.

• 54:44Ed Mylett?

  That is absolutely freaking incredible. That's absolutely bananas.

• 54:48Dr. David Sinclair?

  But it gets better.

• 54:49Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 54:50Dr. David Sinclair?

  The eye was just something we chose. I didn't think it would work any better in the eye. In fact, I thought it'd probably work worse. But we found that there's a universal reset switch. So you can reset different parts of the body. You can reset the skin. We've shown you can reset muscle. You can reset, what have you done? Yeah, the skin was easy. So using the same genes. So we're just basically turning on an embryonic program in older people or middle aged in their cells and in mice, and they get young again. What does this mean? This means one day, it's going to be possible to reset the age of the body. We've done that. We've done that in mice. Now, the question is, how soon can we get it into ourselves?

• 55:29Ed Mylett?

  That's bananas. Is there, here's the, here's the guy that grew up with skeptics all over his house. Let's assume that that's true. Did everyone just hear what he just said, by the way? That we may be able to reset the age of a human? We've already been able to do this now in other organisms? That's. It's a minute to just process that, right? And as I process it, I go, wow, that's exciting. I hope I can live long enough so that I can reset my clock.

• 55:53Dr. David Sinclair?

  That's the key.

• 55:54Ed Mylett?

  Right?

• 55:55Dr. David Sinclair?

  The stuff we've talked about today.

• 55:56Ed Mylett?

  Yeah.

• 55:56Dr. David Sinclair?

  The, the, the eating, the exercise, um, well, what, what's the other thing? Hot, cold. These are designed and the supplements to keep us all alive until this technology becomes available. Cause it's not just one thing to slow down aging, which we can do pretty easily just by doing these lifestyle changes. But to reset the age, there's a, there's a study from UCLA.

• 56:17Ed Mylett?

  Jeez Louise, that's crazy.

• 56:18Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, it gets crazier. There's a study, um, by Steve Horvath and, um, Greg Fahy was published during the first few months of the pandemic. They treated people for a year with a combination of metformin, a bit of growth hormone and, and, um, DHEA to offset some of the problems with growth hormone that can cause type two diabetes. And they found that when they measured the clock of the body, it went back by about two years. And at, at the time I thought, yeah, okay, two years, that's not a lot. But then I started thinking, if you could do that every year.

• 56:50Ed Mylett?

  Right, right.

• 56:51Dr. David Sinclair?

  That'd be pretty interesting.

• 56:52Ed Mylett?

  You're literally aging in reverse.

• 56:54Dr. David Sinclair?

  Right, right. And I, I don't know about immortality. I, I'd just be happy with an extra 10 years of, of healthy life or even two years. But we're at a point now where we're, we're able to control aging pretty easily. In my lab, we can drive aging forwards and backwards in mice at will. Aging is malleable now that we have an understanding of how it's controlled and what causes it. And we even have mini brains in the lab. We can take human cells, so Ed, I can take your skin cells. I can make them into stem cells that are pluripotent, meaning I can make anything from you. If I wanted to, and this is not kidding, I could make a sperm out of your skin cells and an egg and fertilize that.

• 57:28Ed Mylett?

  So you can clone me?

• 57:28Dr. David Sinclair?

  I could, I could clone you. I won't do that because it's illegal, but biologically we could do that.

• 57:34Ed Mylett?

  My gosh.

• 57:35Dr. David Sinclair?

  I'm, I'm going to get all sorts of phone calls.

• 57:36Ed Mylett?

  You are, there we go. I'm going to get the emails too.

• 57:38Dr. David Sinclair?

  Hey, can you clone me?

• 57:39Ed Mylett?

  Yeah.

• 57:39Dr. David Sinclair?

  No, but what, what I'm, what I, what's important is I can make organs, mini organs from you and test drugs. And I could, what we're doing in the lab is we have.

• 57:48Ed Mylett?

  Wow, yeah.

• 57:49Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah.

• 57:49Ed Mylett?

  Yeah.

• 57:50Dr. David Sinclair?

  Personalized medicine.

• 57:51Ed Mylett?

  Yeah, wow.

• 57:53Dr. David Sinclair?

  So when you come to my lab and you have to promise you're going to come, I'll show you, we grow these mini brains in the lab. And we've got them from people that are predisposed to Alzheimer's or not. And we have a way to age those brains so that they're now eighty years old, even though they're only a few months old. And they lose their ability to fire electrically. They they become demented in the dish, little mini brains. On Instagram, I've shown some photos of these. They're pretty cute. And so we give them Alzheimer's and dementia in the dish. And then what we do is we have the system to turn on those three embryonic genes, O S and K. And those brains go back in age. But here's the cool thing. Alzheimer's goes away. They get the electrical activity comes back. Now we do this in a mouse. We make the mouse older. Just let them age out. We accelerate it.

• 58:37Dr. David Sinclair?

  And we've been now reversing the age of those brains in the mice. And you can guess what happens. They get their memory ability to learn back.

• 58:44Ed Mylett?

  Unbelievable. Do you hear what you're saying? It's unbelievable.

• 58:49Dr. David Sinclair?

  This is my day job, so it doesn't seem that exciting, but it is when I talk about it.

• 58:52Ed Mylett?

  It's the most exciting stuff. Listen, we're in this time where there's all this doom and gloom about, you know, our wellness and health and the pandemic and all these other things, and it's stuff to be very cognizant of and pay very close attention to, but right with the same time. I feel like Sergey Young and I were talking about this too, who I know you you know Sergey and like Sergey as well. It's almost like, man, if you can find a way right now to stay on this planet healthy for the next ten or twenty years, if you can manage to do that, that there might be an extension of your life at a magnitude of another twenty or thirty potentially, healthy years possibly. And you said ten earlier. If you can just find a way to extend your life and the finding the way is what we're describing.

• 59:36Ed Mylett?

  The hot and cold, the not eating so dag gum much, right? The look really getting sure about your glucose and how you process it in your body and taking a look at this metformin and N A D and these other things. And if you can really start to get that stuff together and exercise and eat healthy and put the right you there may be a completely different world we're living in in a matter of a decade.

• 59:56Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, exactly right. And already, because technology is changing so fast already, and it's only going to go exponential. Every year that you stay alive, you get another three months of life.

• 1:00:06Ed Mylett?

  Right now.

• 1:00:06Dr. David Sinclair?

  Right now. Stay alive, because eventually it's going to be for every year you stay alive, you get another year. And eventually you're gonna have negative birthdays.

• 1:00:14Ed Mylett?

  Come on, it's, it's.

• 1:00:16Dr. David Sinclair?

  No, I, I used to say that this was futuristic.

• 1:00:19Ed Mylett?

  Yeah, you did. This is why it has so much credibility with me. You used to say many years ago, this is far off, this is possible. So for you to be the one telling me, no, here's the window that it's possible in. Probable or possible, it carries so much credibility with me.

• 1:00:34Dr. David Sinclair?

  I've got some of the best scientists working with me on this, not just at Harvard, but in, in companies who know how to make drugs. So this isn't just, oh, one day it'll happen. There's, there's investors.

• 1:00:43Ed Mylett?

  Okay, sure.

• 1:00:44Dr. David Sinclair?

  Other investors have jumped in. So Jeff Bezos and others have put large amounts of money. There are billions now to figure this out. Um, so even if I don't make it, you know, I, I, God willing, I don't have a heart attack, but if I do. You know, the, the genie's out of the bottle. This is going to happen. It's just a question of when.

• 1:01:03Ed Mylett?

  Yeah. What it means to be, I'm just thinking myself as you're talking, what it means to be a human being. It's going to potentially be very different experience within a decade. What it means and all of the, uh, just the pain and suffering so many people have gone through in lives with cancers and heart disease and losing people that are still here to Alzheimer's and things like that, to think about the quality of life. And people ask me all the time, I was just on a call before we did this with a coaching group I have with all of the stuff going on in the world right now, you know? And I, and I, I told them I'm optimistic. I'm optimistic about humanity. I'm optimistic about life. I'm optimistic about our world. And it's not Pollyanna. I have reasons to believe it. And you know, you, my friend, are one of those reasons.

• 1:01:45Ed Mylett?

  I just learned from you and feel so inspired by you. Is there a negative to people living so much longer? I think of things like food supply or things like that. Do you ever think about those things? Like, we gotta be really careful here because, you know, there might be an, an issue we've not factored in. In other words, do other technologies need to be keeping pace if humans are going to live longer?

• 1:02:05Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah. The answer is yes. And that's the subject of my next book, actually. How do we get out of this mess that, that we're in?

• 1:02:11Ed Mylett?

  This mess that we're in of living longer and.

• 1:02:12Dr. David Sinclair?

  No, the mess that, that the world we've created.

• 1:02:15Ed Mylett?

  Okay, got you.

• 1:02:15Dr. David Sinclair?

  Of the, the stress and the, and the bad food around us. Living longer is part of the solution, actually.

• 1:02:21Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 1:02:21Dr. David Sinclair?

  So by helping yourself, you actually help save the planet. And that may sound counterintuitive, but let me explain. First of all, there's an economic benefit to living longer. Healthy, right, productivity.

• 1:02:33Ed Mylett?

  Sure.

• 1:02:34Dr. David Sinclair?

  Spending. The economy is driven by people who are healthy and dragged down by people who are not healthy.

• 1:02:39Ed Mylett?

  Good point.

• 1:02:39Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah. And we did the calculations. By we, I mean a couple of brilliant economists in London and I was just the the third wheel, but they calculated that if you could just extend lifespan by one year, let's say everyone went on Metformin, who could take it, then the savings in the long run to the US would add up to eighty six trillion dollars. If extended to a decade, it's three hundred and sixty five trillion with a T dollars. This is more money than you can get by doing anything.

• 1:03:07Ed Mylett?

  Anything.

• 1:03:07Dr. David Sinclair?

  You know, you know, save stopping all military spending, which we wouldn't do. But that that kind of money can be put towards solving issues like climate change, food supply.

• 1:03:17Ed Mylett?

  Sure.

• 1:03:18Dr. David Sinclair?

  And the other thing that I do, and I I don't often mention this because it's often, you know, not the subject that people want to hear about. But I also work on other problems on the planet. I have a company that detects viruses and bacteria, can diagnose anything from your blood. That's just one. But the one that's relevant that you reminded me is, actually, I wrote a co-wrote a patent on the plane over here to California from Boston to preserve fruit. And so the same molecules and coatings on fruit that well, the same molecules that work in our bodies also work in plants. In fact, plants make most of these molecules that we ingest. It's one of the reasons I eat stressed stressed out plants because they make these molecules. Long story short, I I'm hoping to extend the shelf life of fruit

• 1:04:01Dr. David Sinclair?

  around the world, and there's a huge amount of fruit and vegetables that are thrown away every day.

• 1:04:05Ed Mylett?

  Perishes.

• 1:04:06Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:07Ed Mylett?

  You're remarkable, brother. Is there something that keeps you up at night that you worry about?

• 1:04:13Dr. David Sinclair?

  I don't get kept up at night worrying. I get kept up at night working and talking to people.

• 1:04:21Dr. David Sinclair?

  I do worry a bit that I'm not going to achieve my life's goal, which is to have a medicine that helps millions of people. That would satisfy me. I don't care about prizes and all that stuff. That's doesn't, you know, I've won a few and it doesn't do anything, you know. What will, what I'm hoping for is for a little vial of a drug, some medicine that that saves millions of lives. And then I'll, then I'll be, honestly, I'll be happy. And I'm guided by a mentor of mine, Philip Sharp, who is at MIT. And he actually literally won a Nobel Prize. Does he have his Nobel Prize on the wall? No, he has a little vial of the drug that he made. And that's what he tells me is important to him.

• 1:05:00Ed Mylett?

  That's so good, David. Okay, a couple more things. Is there any other additional? I'm just processing what we've talked about today. I feel so good that you are here. I want you, I want to just say this to you. I always learn when you're around me. And I feel more optimistic with evidence, based in fact of why I feel more optimistic. And I'm grateful that I get to share the conversation today with millions of people that listen to the show. Like, there are some shows when I do them, and I'm in the midst of doing them, and I'm like, I'm so grateful for this experience. And that's now twice with you. And I just want to acknowledge that with you. Is there any other gift you'd want to give the audience of, hey, here's another supplement or tip or something that could extend the quality or length of one's life?

• 1:05:45Ed Mylett?

  Is there something we haven't covered that you would just add to what we've talked about? Is anything even related to mental health or anything like that?

• 1:05:52Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah. Well, there are a couple of things. Mental health's very important to me as well. I've learned to reduce stress. Don't worry about the little things. Think about, will this matter in five, 10 years? I know you're very, very good at this. I listen to you as well. I'm grateful to you as well.

• 1:06:07Ed Mylett?

  Thank you.

• 1:06:08Dr. David Sinclair?

  And the ability to cope with pressure.

• 1:06:12Ed Mylett?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:13Dr. David Sinclair?

  I was a very nervous kid, and in my twenties and in my thirties, getting a job at Harvard was pretty scary. In my forties and now in my fifties, I'm a relatively calm guy. And you have to work at it. It doesn't come naturally. Some breathing. I'm more recently now trying meditation at night.

• 1:06:30Ed Mylett?

  Are you?

• 1:06:31Dr. David Sinclair?

  Just for a little bit, just for 15 minutes or so a day. But I find that I can even get by with less sleep. I have, what's a helmet and a headset that helps me? I'm not very good at meditation because my mind is everywhere.

• 1:06:42Ed Mylett?

  I imagine.

• 1:06:42Dr. David Sinclair?

  But it's called BrainTap, and I have no connection to them, but I like it. BrainTap is a, has headphones, you listen to calming music, and it's shining light in your eyes at frequencies that get you to calm down. So, mental health, very important, because if you're always overly stressed, a little bit of agitation's good, right? Gets us going. But if you have cortisol coursing through your veins, it will accelerate aging. Okay. The other thing is, I'm working on democratizing another type of test for age, which is your true biological age, which is measuring. The chemicals that are on DNA that actually determine biologically how old you are. And it starts at conception and it ticks away even when you're young.

• 1:07:23Dr. David Sinclair?

  And I can basically take a blood test or a cheek swab from you or anybody and predict how old you are, but also when you might die if you don't change your life. And what I want to do is give everybody the equivalent of their credit score.

• 1:07:37Ed Mylett?

  Wow.

• 1:07:38Dr. David Sinclair?

  And help them improve their credit score.

• 1:07:39Ed Mylett?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:40Dr. David Sinclair?

  Right? So you've got this number and here's what we think you should do, given everything we know about you. And that way just coach millions of people into a healthier, longer life. And we do have a sign up, so that's my gift. You can get, so we're developing this test and it's going to be a lot cheaper than anything. We've just filed a patent that brings the cost down by a couple of orders of magnitude. The website is called tallyhealth.com. So get on that list and I'll contact you and we'll see. So tallyhealth.com and that's the latest spin out from my lab. But I think that in the same way, medicine will help millions of people five, 10 years from now, this will be soon. And that, you know, this coaching that we do, I love touching people's lives now, not

• 1:08:24Dr. David Sinclair?

  just saying, oh, in five years, I'll get back to you.

• 1:08:26Ed Mylett?

  Yeah. You're doing that. You did that today. Here's one thing I'd just recommend everybody. I'd stay close to Dr. David Sinclair. So I'd follow his social media, anywhere you can get it.

• 1:08:38Ed Mylett?

  I'm just telling you that I think he's one of the most important humans on the spinning earth right now. And I feel stronger about it today than I did even before today. And I've already told, you know, millions of people about you prior to today. So thank you for today. I enjoyed this tremendously, but I learned a great deal. And for those of you that are listening, by the way, is that where they should find you on your socials? Is that the best place?

• 1:09:01Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, Instagram and Twitter, I'm putting out facts, right? There's not enough facts out there. I'm very science-based. But I also, because of a lot of feedback, I've had my podcast that's just been released.

• 1:09:12Ed Mylett?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:13Dr. David Sinclair?

  And that's doing well, fortunately, reaching lots of people. And we go into practical advice, not just the science.

• 1:09:18Ed Mylett?

  Some of the questions that I asked you today were born out of listening to your podcast. So I recommend that to everybody and you guys, listen, I bring you some of these people and it's free. All I ask you to do is share it because this is the fastest growing show on the planet for a reason, and it's because of all of you. And it's because I'm blessed enough because of all of you to get you access to some of the most interesting, fascinating, and inspiring people in the world that can teach you to live better, longer, and happier, more productive lives. And so we accomplished that today, David. So thank you.

• 1:09:48Dr. David Sinclair?

  Ed, you're great. Thanks for having me on.

• 1:09:50Ed Mylett?

  I love you, brother. All right, guys. God bless you all. Max out. Share the show. Take care. This is the Ed Mylett Show.