What You Need to Know About Finding and Keeping Love with Jay Shetty (Re-Release)

We are so honored to have Jay Shetty join us to talk about love – how to realistically look at love, the three ways you should prepare yourself to find it, and keeping it once you have it. We’re also discussing the misconceptions we’ve been conditioned to believe, the importance of self-love and non-romantic love, what the “list” we have for our perfect partner should and shouldn’t look like, how to structure the ideal week when you’re in a relationship, and more. Enjoy one of our greatest hits! Follow Jay on Instagram @JayShetty and visit his website for more. Follow us on Instagram @girlsgottaeatpodcast, Ashley @ashhess, and Rayna @rayna.greenberg. Visit girlsgottaeat.com for live show tickets and more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  I think the problem is all of our emphasis and all of our focus is on is that person right for me? But half of that question is me, who am I? Like, what am I? Like, what do I want?

• 0:25Ashley Hesseltine?

  This podcast is a Dear Media production.

• 0:27Rayna Greenberg?

  Hi, guys.

• 0:28Ashley Hesseltine?

  Hi, guys.

• 0:29Rayna Greenberg?

  Welcome back to a re-released episode of Girls Gotta Eat. This is a new thing for us. We're really excited. We are bringing some of the best of the best episodes out of the vault to just give you guys more content, more episodes, more of us, really.

• 0:45Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, so this is the Girls Gotta Eat's greatest hits.

• 0:48Rayna Greenberg?

  So we've cherry picked some of our number one episodes, best guests, favorite episodes, and we're re-releasing those for you from time to time, just to, you know, brighten up your day on Fridays.

• 0:56Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, so we're kicking this off strong with Jay Shetty. This episode is from January 2023, and so if you listened and you just want to refresh, or you never heard it, what were you doing? But you're welcome.

• 1:10Rayna Greenberg?

  Welcome.

• 1:10Ashley Hesseltine?

  And it's wonderful. You know, we really talked about a lot of things with him, how you should prepare yourself to find love, and the importance of self-love, and non-romantic love, and friendship, having a list for your perfect partner, and what should and shouldn't be on it. It was just like a wonderful conversation. We loved his energy, and it was really inspirational. And this is around the time where his book came out. And so we love chatting about that with him. And then we went on his show, too, that came out around the same time, which was such an honor. But this is when he came on ours.

• 1:39Rayna Greenberg?

  Yes, I mean, his energy, his tone, his pace, his insights, just, he's really so fantastic. So this is where we're starting the Vault re-releases, and we hope you guys love it and get introduced to some new content. And thanks for being here. Enjoy your Friday.

• 1:54Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yes, so enjoy what you need to know about finding and keeping love with Jay Shetty.

• 2:00Rayna Greenberg?

  We are so excited for this guest this week. He is unbelievable. He is a number one New York Times bestselling author, award-winning storyteller, former monk dedicated to helping people train their mind for peace and purpose every day. His show On Purpose is the number one world's top health and wellness podcast. We were just on it. Second book, Eight Rules of Love, is available for purchase now. Please welcome to the show a guest you are going to love, Jay Shetty.

• 2:27Speaker 00

  Oh, thank you, guys. This is this is nice little role reversal.

• 2:32Speaker 00

  Honestly, thank you so much for having me. I'm so grateful to be on your show. You have an amazing community, amazing audience. And honestly, I do. I do feel very honored. I really do. So thank you so much.

• 2:42Ashley Hesseltine?

  Thank you. I mean, we told our audience you were coming on. We asked them what questions they had for you. They were so excited. Some people didn't even have a question. They were like, oh, my God. That's all they responded. So you have our favorite name at the time. I have a question for you because we said this on what we just recorded with you. When you just say, when I was a monk, it just flows out so easily. Like, does that ever get old? Like, is it a flex? Like, it's just, I know it's not a flex.

• 3:06Speaker 00

  No, it's a great question.

• 3:07Ashley Hesseltine?

  It's a funny thing to just say.

• 3:08Speaker 00

  It's really interesting, right? Your life to you is just normal. Like, everything in your own life is so normal. And for me, it's such a normal thing in my life that it's one of the easiest things I say because it's like going, oh, when I went to college, or when I went to university. Like, that's exactly how I refer to it. And so many of my biggest life lessons come from that time. And so I refer to it so regularly. It's such a big pool of thoughts and ideas for my life.

• 3:39Rayna Greenberg?

  Uh huh. One of the questions our listeners asked, and we'll get into them, was why are you so hot?

• 3:45Rayna Greenberg?

  It's usually my job to hit on the guest, but you're married, so I respect boundaries.

• 3:49Ashley Hesseltine?

  So you said this, and the timeline stuck with me from us just doing an interview with you, that you were a monk for three years, and then you met your wife shortly thereafter?

• 3:57Speaker 00

  No, so I met my wife before.

• 3:59Ashley Hesseltine?

  Oh, you did.

• 3:59Speaker 00

  Yeah, so I actually, so the, the story of how I met my wife is I was in my final six months of university. And while I was at university, I would spend my weekends at my local temple, training to be a monk, preparing to go off and become a monk.

• 4:13Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay.

• 4:13Speaker 00

  When I graduated. And that was me basically trying to stay out of trouble because I was like, final year of university, too much trouble.

• 4:19Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay.

• 4:19Speaker 00

  And so I do this, and then I was asked to show a woman around, uh, doing certain rituals or certain uh, services around the temple. And I've never been asked to do it before, never got asked to do it again. And this woman came up to me afterwards and she said, hey, I'd love to introduce my daughter to meditation and spirituality. Would you meet with her? And I was like, well, I'm gonna go and become a monk, but I can introduce her to my sister. That was my wife's mom.

• 4:42Ashley Hesseltine?

  Oh, my god.

• 4:43Speaker 00

  My wife's mom met me that day, uh, I showed her around, we built up somewhat of a rapport. Then I met my wife to introduce her to my sister.

• 4:52Ashley Hesseltine?

  Got it.

• 4:53Speaker 00

  And I met my wife, I thought she was absolutely, well, she wasn't my wife, I met this girl, thought she was absolutely stunning and, and beautiful, but I met her for two seconds and I was like, stay focused, stay focused, stay focused.

• 5:04Ashley Hesseltine?

  Monk life, yeah.

• 5:04Speaker 00

  And then, and then her and my sister became really good friends. And so then when I came back from the monastery, she was at my house all the time and it was.

• 5:11Ashley Hesseltine?

  She was at the house all the time.

• 5:12Speaker 00

  All the time.

• 5:13Ashley Hesseltine?

  And you quit monkin'.

• 5:13Speaker 00

  My, yeah, no, I was already, I'd already left.

• 5:16Ashley Hesseltine?

  My question was like, did you leave the monastery after being a monk and you could like, say that on dates? Like, what would the reaction have been? But clearly you just got out and started dating your now wife.

• 5:24Speaker 00

  Oh, my gosh, yeah, no, I mean, I, I struggled to tell anyone because it was, as in to talk, to explain what I did or how it felt, like I was literally rejected from forty companies when I left because my resume said monk.

• 5:38Ashley Hesseltine?

  Why?

• 5:39Speaker 00

  For three years, you've got no work experience. They're like, surprise, surprise, what's your uh, transferable skill? Like, sitting still and being silent, like, no one needs that in their company.

• 5:48Ashley Hesseltine?

  It's such an asset.

• 5:49Speaker 00

  Well, that's, it's so funny, I was doing an interview this morning with the Daily Mail in the UK and. I was saying the same thing to them that when I chose to become a monk, it was like, all my family was like, you've been brainwashed. Everyone's like, you're throwing your life away. Uh, my extended family was like, this is the worst decision you'll ever make. You'll never make any money again. So it was met with so much resistance. And then when I left, it was like, we told you so. We knew that would happen to you. Like, look what happened. Now you're not gonna get a job. Look, forty companies rejected you. We saw this coming along. And so it was such a like, uncool thing that I did in my life in the sense of how the world viewed it. And so to now, when that, you know, I, I feel like,

• 6:29Speaker 00

  me writing my book, think like a monk and talking about it in a, hopefully a more mainstream, relatable way. I feel like now it's like, oh Jay, it's a flex. It's cool. And I'm like, trust me, when I did it, there was no one in my life who thought it was cool. Like my, my friend was like, Jay, what are we gonna talk about right now? All we used to talk about was girls. Like, what am I gonna talk to you about, right? So I lost friends over it. I lost family members who disconnected. It was not, uh, as cool as it may feel now. It, it definitely wasn't seen that way.

• 6:57Ashley Hesseltine?

  That's so funny, cause I just picture like a woman on a date being like, that's hot.

• 7:03Ashley Hesseltine?

  Like being like, he was a monk, girl. But like, kinda not even knowing what that means. I just can picture it being like, did you even know?

• 7:10Speaker 00

  Yeah, I never went on, the only dates I went on were with my now wife. So I never got, I never got to experience what that felt like.

• 7:17Rayna Greenberg?

  Well, if you ask women, like, what's the number one quality you look for in a man? They're like, someone in therapy. So that's basically you.

• 7:23Speaker 00

  Yeah, three years, three years of self-therapy for sure.

• 7:27Rayna Greenberg?

  Well, you are like so qualified to talk to us about all this today. And you wrote this new book and Ashley and I were reading it and we will get into it. It's called Eight Rules of Love. And something, I wanna hear about why you wrote it. But something I love about the book is that you talk about being alone and enjoying it and breaking up. And you don't expect that like, that's gonna be part of it. And you, you talk about the different ashrams. Am I saying the word?

• 7:47Speaker 00

  Yeah, you said it great. That's great pronunciation.

• 7:49Ashley Hesseltine?

  Good job reading.

• 7:50Rayna Greenberg?

  It's not a hard word to pronounce.

• 7:52Speaker 00

  Hustle time and ashrams, that's like, that's good, that's good.

• 7:56Rayna Greenberg?

  You talk about how you pulled from your life as a monk to a lot of preparing to love and preparing to love again. And I don't think you see a lot of books about love that are like, no, you should also be alone. And it's okay to break up and you pull so much into that. When I first read the title, I was like, what is this going to be about? And I was really surprised pleasantly, so.

• 8:15Speaker 00

  Oh, I love that. Thank you for that.

• 8:16Rayna Greenberg?

  You're welcome. Thank you for reading, I'm sorry, writing the book. So tell us why you wrote the book?

• 8:21Speaker 00

  I mean, so many reasons, but the biggest one I'd say is that I've always been obsessed with love. I'm a romantic, I love love, and I think I've made so many mistakes in relationships and dating, like so many across the years. And I never had a guidebook, I never had podcasts at the time, I never had insights, I never had coaches or therapists at the time that could have helped me avoid so many mistakes or make those mistakes but know what to pivot and shift from. And so for me, I wrote the book because I feel like this is the book that I would have wanted when I was growing up to learn more about relationships. And at the same time, I've just, I keep making relationship mistakes. Even now, I've been with my wife for 10 years and.

• 9:01Rayna Greenberg?

  She won't text you back.

• 9:02Speaker 00

  I keep, yeah, she won't text me back. I keep saying the wrong things. Like, there's so many things that I still make mistakes with. And I was like, maybe if I sit with this topic for two years, which is how long it takes to write the book, if I sit with this topic for two years, maybe I'll learn something, right? And it was like, do I want to be obsessed with learning about love for two years? I was like, yes, that's, that's exactly what I want to do is see what I can learn, see what I can take away. So it's a personal obsession and personal passion.

• 9:28Rayna Greenberg?

  You talk a lot about the things that we're taught and why they're wrong. And we grew up with these like ideas of like, find lust or find this particular type of compatibility, make these lists and you sort of debunk a lot of this in the book, that all this stuff that we were taught is wrong.

• 9:42Speaker 00

  Yeah, well, I think one of the biggest things we were taught is like, being alone was weird, right? Like I talk about in the book about how, you know, if you're the kid at school who no one sits with at lunch, you're considered the weirdo. Or if you have a birthday party and not a lot of people show up, you're the loner.

• 9:57Rayna Greenberg?

  That is embarrassing.

• 9:59Ashley Hesseltine?

  I mean, I just saw my birthday. People are on vacation sometimes. But anyway.

• 10:03Speaker 00

  But it's interesting, like, as adults, like, I'd be happy, honestly speaking, I'd be happy if, like, my closest six friends showed up to my birthday.

• 10:10Ashley Hesseltine?

  You get to be an adult and you're like, no one come, please.

• 10:12Speaker 00

  Yeah, no one comes anywhere.

• 10:13Ashley Hesseltine?

  Can everyone just bail? Please leave early. Also, tell me you have something else to do. Right, okay.

• 10:17Speaker 00

  Yeah, and I always found, like, you know, you went to, if you go to a wedding alone, like, the person's always like, oh, you didn't bring a plus one. Like, you know, it's always like, poor you. And I think that kind of attitude is what set us up for so many mistakes in love. And I think for me, I'm trying to debunk those things because I think what we base our love life on is based on what everyone thinks is love. Or how it's been portrayed in movies, or how it's been portrayed in music. They give all these love songs, and none of them are happy. And they're all complaining about how bad love was and how painful it was. So there's no guidance, there's no thinking. And so I think I would go out with people because of how good we looked together, and that was the only reason. Or you'd go out with someone because you think all your friends want them, right? Like,

• 11:02Speaker 00

  you start making decisions based on so many superficial things, and I wish I just had some insight.

• 11:07Ashley Hesseltine?

  I was gonna ask you what you felt like were some of your big mistakes when you were dating. Like, did you ever have, like, a fuckboy phase? I mean, really, what kind of dater were you? Were you a couple different types?

• 11:17Speaker 00

  Yeah, I had phases. I had phases. I'd say that I had a lot of different times when all I was looking for was loving the movies. Like, I literally wanted a Hollywood romance, and so I'd try and craft that. But my mistake was it didn't really matter who the other person was. I was just gonna invent the most beautiful relationship, thinking that it was love, and hoping that that person would love me. And so I think for a long time, I looked for validation through what women thought of me. And so I would chase that by doing amazing things. Because if I could do something amazing, they'd be like, Jay, you're incredible. And that's what I was doing it for, not even for the person. And that's messed up. I'm talking about like a 15 years old, 16 years old.

• 11:59Speaker 00

  And then when I went through phases when I was dating randomly, or just meeting with lots of women, and whatever else it may be, I think my biggest mistake was just that, a part of me feels like the biggest mistake I made at that time is I spent too much money on dates and women. Like, I just spent way too much money I didn't have. Yeah, to impress them, that I didn't have, like, money I didn't have. And I think I would, like, use any bit of money I was working on to save up to waste it on dates.

• 12:25Ashley Hesseltine?

  Well, we mentioned this on our interview with you and you've talked about this on previous episodes, yours, but I'd love to even just dive into it a little further because I'm just obsessed with the topic of just wanting someone to like you and impress them and gain their acceptance and their adoration without even thinking if you like them or they're a match.

• 12:43Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 12:43Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, because I want to go back to what you said exactly. You had this fantasy of what this relationship was going to be like and you just wanted to jam anybody into it.

• 12:50Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 12:50Rayna Greenberg?

  And I think that it can lead to a lot of pitfalls and it's not fair to the other person either.

• 12:54Speaker 00

  Right. No, not at all.

• 12:55Rayna Greenberg?

  Because that person can also be like, do you even like me? Or am I just here to like fit into this fantasy of your life? So let's talk about it.

• 13:02Speaker 00

  Yeah, well, I think a lot of people like the fantasy, actually, and then you realize you don't like them, right? Like it's like, it's a really uncomfortable experience when you're doing things just for validation. And I think that's what everyone can relate to. It's like, I think about anyone in relationships now and I'm always asking them, like, do you actually like the other person? Do you actually know them? Do you actually understand them? Like, do you even know that many interesting things about them? Or is it just that in your head, you've made this amazing story up about who this person is and how much you like each other? There's this amazing study that I saw that said, to make someone a casual friend, it takes 40 hours. To make someone a good friend, it takes 100 hours. And to consider someone a great friend, it takes 200 hours.

• 13:45Rayna Greenberg?

  Spent with them, like getting to know them?

• 13:46Speaker 00

  Yeah, like quality time spent with them. And when I look at that, I'm like, people are saying they love you after like 20 hours. Or we're saying like, oh, you're amazing, you're incredible after like 30 hours. And I'm not saying you have to have spent 200 hours, but the depth of that time you've spent with someone, like sometimes a podcast can accelerate relationships. Maybe we should just podcast with people that you are considering dating with.

• 14:07Rayna Greenberg?

  We invited people, yeah, at the beginning. I used to invite people on that I want to sleep with.

• 14:10Speaker 00

  Yeah, there you go. And, but, but what I'm trying to say is that, that depth, that intimacy, I think we don't have enough of that before we start making these big claims.

• 14:19Rayna Greenberg?

  Do you think it starts with this fear of being alone? And so you're just like, that's the worst thing in the world. So I just want to find somebody to fit into this fantasy of what I think my life will be like not being single. So you just pick anybody?

• 14:32Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think it comes from loneliness. I think it comes from uh the fear of being alone. And when I look at that fear, what's that really coming from? It's a fear of I'm inadequate, I'm unworthy, I'm not lovable. Uh that's where it's coming from. It's coming from like this discomfort that we have. That well, will anyone like me? And actually, if someone likes me, no matter who they are, at least I'm not unlovable. And so we'll receive and accept anyone's love. And I think that that's really dangerous. I think it's really painful where you're saying I'll accept any love. Uh because at least that proves that I'm not unlovable. And I think to me, that's really what loneliness or the fear of loneliness is based on. It's not

• 15:14Speaker 00

  it's not just physically not being around someone. That's not really what we're dealing with. I think we all know there's multiple ways of being alone, like the idea that so many of us today feel surrounded by people, but we don't feel understood. We don't feel seen, we don't feel heard, even with a buzzing group of friends. And so to me, I'm looking for that kind of connection, or I'm encouraging people to look for that kind of connection where you feel seen, you feel understood, you feel heard, not just that you have a physical person.

• 15:41Ashley Hesseltine?

  Mm hmm. I'd love for you to speak on just all of the bullshit that we're fed and like why we do get so skewed on what love looks like. Because real, healthy love is like kind of boring, like from the outside, like

• 15:56Speaker 00

  It's true, it's true, yeah.

• 15:58Ashley Hesseltine?

  You see, Ray and I always talk about this on a different level of like reality TV, like the normal people would be too boring. You wouldn't want to watch it. You need volatility and you need ups and downs and you need all these things. And so it's almost like all of the fairy tales and the love we've seen in the movies and the songs and all that can be pretty volatile. That's what makes them exciting. That's what makes it entertaining.

• 16:17Speaker 00

  That's so true. Yeah. And I think the earliest we could all relate to is the damsel in distress, like the knight in shining armor coming to save someone.

• 16:24Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 16:24Speaker 00

  And so I think we're set up with that idea of someone's gonna save you and you will be saved. And so now everyone's operating from the idea of like, who's gonna save me?

• 16:32Rayna Greenberg?

  Right.

• 16:32Speaker 00

  And then the other person's going, who am I gonna save? Right? So you're living in this world of like, the savior trying to save someone and the savior wants to be idolized for being a savior. And the savior only feels accomplished when the person who's being saved feels helpless and vulnerable. And so you're basically setting up this paradigm of fixer and broken. And that's why in every relationship, someone's saying, I'm broken, help me, fix me. And then the other person's like, yes, I'm here to fix you. I'll, I'll take care of everything. And then we both get exhausted of that paradigm. Or when you look at movies and, you know, I'm a massive fan of romantic comedies, like, loved them since day one. And now when I watch them back, I'm like, oh my gosh, what is going on?

• 17:10Rayna Greenberg?

  I mean, the amount of people that say that Carrie and Big is like, they're the goat of a relationship. We're like, it's so toxic.

• 17:17Speaker 00

  Yeah. I had an ex-girlfriend that was addicted to The Notebook. We would watch The Notebook like all the time. I think I've seen, I think I've seen The Notebook like thirty times at least, right?

• 17:25Rayna Greenberg?

  Pretty awesome.

• 17:27Rayna Greenberg?

  Let's be honest.

• 17:27Speaker 00

  And, and there's this scene, like, I remember there's this scene where Ryan Gosling goes up to Rachel McAdams. And he's just like, I'll be anything you want. I'll do anything. I can be it. And it's just like so unhealthy.

• 17:39Rayna Greenberg?

  Right.

• 17:39Speaker 00

  Then, the next thing you know, he's hanging off the Ferris wheel. And with two hands, remember the scene, he's hanging off the Ferris wheel with two hands. And he lets go and goes, if you don't say, go on a date with me, I will fall.

• 17:51Rayna Greenberg?

  Right.

• 17:51Speaker 00

  Like, that's really unhealthy.

• 17:53Rayna Greenberg?

  Now here's a threat.

• 17:54Speaker 00

  Now there's a threat, there's a threat of suicide and personal harm in order to have someone go on a date with you.

• 18:00Rayna Greenberg?

  I was sitting in the there, in the theater gulping for air. I was crying so hard about how romantic that was. But like, what if it was a normal relationship? We'd be like, this is the dumbest movie I've ever seen.

• 18:10Speaker 00

  Literally.

• 18:11Rayna Greenberg?

  Just these two people who love each other and are healthy and stable. Who cares? Well, the other relationship in that movie, the person that she's gonna marry is just like a normal, stable guy. We're all like, boo.

• 18:24Speaker 00

  Apart from, doesn't he throw all the, no, that was a dad who throws the letters away. Yeah, I forgot. But, but yeah, like you're, you're exposed to all these ideas. Obviously, we're exposed to the idea of happily ever after. Obviously, we're exposed to the idea of, you know, everything works out in the end. And even the one person, like when there's a love triangle and one person ends up single, you don't worry about them because you're like, these two people got together. And in real life, you're that person who got left out of the love triangle. So I just feel like we're exposed to all these ideas. They become our reality, or at least they become an imprint. And even if we don't know it, these imprints become real. Why do we search for drama? You were just talking about reality TV. Reality TV exposes you to so much drama. Now you feel you have to have drama in your relationship to survive.

• 19:06Speaker 00

  It has to be interesting all the time and there has to be something to find out. I was just with a friend the other day who said, someone told her to get a private investigator to make sure that her boyfriend wasn't seeing someone else. And I'm like, that's, that, where does that idea come from? Right?

• 19:19Rayna Greenberg?

  Well, also, if you're picking up the phone to do that, like something out, something is bad here.

• 19:24Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 19:24Rayna Greenberg?

  You know?

• 19:24Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 19:25Rayna Greenberg?

  Um, this other idea of bullshit that, um, because we're gonna go down that road of like, you know, things that we were fed, that you talked about, I forget if it was on a show I listened to, you know, or in the book, but, um, that measure of time is like this great measurement of relationships and it's such bullshit because like just being together forever is not the measure of what a good relationship is. And I'd love for you to speak on that because I thought it was, you had some really great insights.

• 19:47Speaker 00

  Yeah, there's this, uh, dad joke that this uncle used to tell at my, like, when I was growing up. And he'd always tell it at like, an engagement or a wedding or like, he would, he would pick the most awkward time to tell this joke. And it's a terrible joke. But he'd be like, oh, there was a couple that was together for forty years. And they were once asked, what was the success or secret to their relationship? And he said, well, when I was thirty, I took my wife to Paris. And they were like, oh, that's amazing. Well, what did you do for your fortieth anniversary? And he's like, oh, I went and picked her up. Like, I went and got her back. And that was his dad joke. And it was that same idea of like, oh, like, wait a minute, length of time doesn't define the quality of a relationship.

• 20:32Speaker 00

  Like the idea that I think today we We celebrate someone who's like, even, even, and I have to be careful of this in my own self, like, we're like, oh yeah, you've been together for 10 years. That's amazing. You've been together for 20 years. That's amazing. And you have no idea what that person's experiencing on a daily basis in terms of intimacy, depth, connection. And the biggest thing I find is just, not only do we celebrate it, we want it, we long for it. We think if we reach that landmark, that means something, that that alone means that we've made it. That alone means that we don't have certain issues. Whereas, uh, most divorces and breakups in longer term relationships happen at the five to seven year mark. And so they've had a milestone of five years. They're on their way to 10 years.

• 21:14Speaker 00

  But you start finding out that these timelines, uh, don't artificially improve the quality of a relationship. So, I would, and being too early or too late, being too old or too young. I think there's the idea of like, oh, you're too young to fall in love. You're too old to fall in love. Like you're too young to find the one. You're too old to find the one. And so, all of these timelines set us back to feeling like, well, wh- when is right? And, and I think we measure time as opposed to how we feel, as opposed to what we know. And I'd go to that third one the most. It's less about how much time you've spent together. It's less about just how you feel. And it's almost about how much you know about that person and how they respond to stress,

• 21:55Speaker 00

  to fatigue, to change, to pain. The more you know that stuff, the more you know where the relationship's gonna last.

• 22:02Rayna Greenberg?

  So I just, I brought it up because I think when you are single, it's easy to look around you and be like, everybody I know has been with their partner for five years. And like, it doesn't matter. You know?

• 22:10Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 22:10Rayna Greenberg?

  And I think that you can find really valuable things in the short term. And just because somebody has reached this mile marker, it doesn't mean that they are happy or have achieved it. So.

• 22:19Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. So if we're talking to people who are single and like, I want to find love, I want to fall in love. I mean, there's so many different avenues we could go down here, but in the book, I mean, there's a lot of, I mean, the age old thing is you have to love yourself first, yada, yada. Yeah, we get it. But like, how do you feel like someone can really prepare themselves to even be open to a healthy relationship? In terms of like prepping for love, like, how do we get ready?

• 22:43Speaker 00

  Yeah. Now, I know you both have lots of amazing advice on this and you just shared it on my show too. So I'm not going to repeat anything you've said before or things that have come up for you. I found three things that I think you need to know about yourself before you get into a relationship. So pretty easy, the first one's obvious, it's your own personality, likes and dislikes. I find that, you know, it's you end up in a relationship and it was like, what do you want to eat? What do you want to watch? And then it just goes round and round in circles. And I find that often people don't know themselves at the basic end of the food they like, the cuisine they like, the, the movies they like to watch. And I'm saying that as a, as a simple thing, but it can be complex that we just never were asked ourselves. Maybe we always did what your older brother or sister did. Maybe your last relationship just decided what you're into.

• 23:27Speaker 00

  Like, when have you ever sat down to think, what is it that I deeply enjoy? What is it that brings my soul alive? What is it that gives me a sense of meaning and what's important to me? And as simple as movies and food, all the way through to life decisions. So that's the first thing, personality. The second is your own values. I find that this is probably the most critical part of any relationship. Knowing what you value, knowing what's important to you, knowing what you want to commit your life to, or at least the next five, 10 years, knowing what's valuable in different scenarios. Like, do you have a hierarchy of how you would organize your life in terms of your career? Family, love life, like where does that sit for you? Because the chances are if you don't have that list, you're going to trade it for someone else's.

• 24:12Speaker 00

  And I think this happens all the time where when you don't know what your values are, you just start to value whatever that person values. And then 10 years later, you're like, God, I've just been valuing what you value. I don't know what I value. So I want people to avoid that. And the final thing I'd say is, what are your goals? Like, where do you want to go? And chances are, if you have goals, you're going to have commitments. You're going to have things that you want to do. You're going to have plans, you're going to have people around you that want to do the same thing. It's what you both were saying on my show, you have a stable foundation, you have a life you love. And a life you love is based on those three things, personality, values and goals. And so if you don't know the answer to those, or at least somewhat, I think it's hard.

• 24:53Rayna Greenberg?

  It's so well said, and I love the whole idea of checking in with yourself. What are your values? Because we we asked on Instagram, you know, what what questions do you have for Jay Shetty and his book? And so many people kind of echoed the same thing of like, I don't know what I want. How do I know what I want? How do I know if this is the right person? How do I know if this is the one? How do I know what attachment style feels good? How do I know what love is versus lust? And what you're saying is like, just check in with yourself. It's just, you know, it's simple.

• 25:17Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think the problem is all of our emphasis and all of our focus is on is that person right for me? But half of that question is me. Who who am I? Like, what am I? Like, what do I want? And so we're so obsessed with getting to know the other person in the beginning. But we don't know ourselves. We don't understand ourselves. Like, you can only see if two things match if you have clarity over this thing. You're not going to have clarity over the other person for quite some time. For you, you've been living with for your whole life, you can have clarity. So it's almost going back to the age old wisdom of focus on what you can control. Like, you can't control if someone loves you. You can't control if someone likes you. You can't control if someone's telling you the truth. But you can control if you're telling the truth. You can control if you like yourself.

• 26:00Speaker 00

  And you can control if you're communicating that. I think actually something you brought up, which I loved, was your stance on kids and having kids. Right? The idea that you know that about yourself means you're not scared about presenting that. You're aware that if someone does, it's easy to be like, okay, well, this isn't going to work out. It just starts creating some boundaries and constraints that actually make it easier to find the right person. As opposed to you saying, I'm an open book. Like, you can win. Like, do do whatever and I'll be I'll be impressed by whatever you do because I'm not sure.

• 26:32Rayna Greenberg?

  I'll fit somewhere. I'll be whatever you want me to be, like Ryan.

• 26:34Speaker 00

  Exactly, yeah.

• 26:35Rayna Greenberg?

  Does this correlate with the writing a love letter to yourself in the book? Because I love that exercise.

• 26:40Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 26:40Rayna Greenberg?

  And you do, there's a lot of things in the book that are actionable things you can do. Can we talk about that a little bit?

• 26:46Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 26:46Rayna Greenberg?

  Where that comes from?

• 26:47Speaker 00

  Yeah, so the book is full of practical exercises because in my professional life, I'm a coach. I have a private coaching practice. I work with couples, individuals, have for many, many years. And so I love practical exercises, things people can actually do. And the book's more like a workbook in that sense. Each section has a love letter to yourself. Uh, I'm a big fan of uh, writing to yourself, talking to yourself, connecting with yourself. Just because that's the only way you get to change your own dialogue. I think we already talk to ourselves. I'm not good enough. Uh, I'm not good looking enough. I'm not smart enough. Like, I think he or she is out of my league, or they are out of my league. I, I feel inadequate sometimes. I, oh my god, do I look good today? I'm not sure. Like, so we already talk to ourselves.

• 27:31Speaker 00

  But ninety percent of that conversation is unhealthy and negative. Uh, studies show we have sixty to eighty thousand thoughts per day. Eighty percent of those are negative and eighty percent of those are repetitive. Wow. So if you're having the thought of like, I'm not good enough, chances are you're having that thought multiple times per day. Reinforced. Correct. So when you write a love letter to yourself, especially in your single day or when you're alone, it's a chance of saying, well, what do I want my thoughts to be when I'm alone? You both had amazing answers on my show when I asked you, uh, what do you bring to the table? And it wasn't boastful, it wasn't arrogant, it wasn't egotistic, it was just, I have a great life. And that is a love letter to yourself. Like, that's basically what you were doing. So I think carving out time

• 28:17Speaker 00

  to write a letter to yourself, almost in the view of, how do I wish I spoke to my four-year-old self, my eight-year-old self, my twelve-year-old self? What were the things, the hateful things? I made a video probably about four years ago now, and it was to show this exact idea. And it applies to the love letter, and that's where the idea came from. I interviewed a group of teenage girls who were probably between the ages of like sixteen to nineteen. And I asked them how they would describe themselves or how they feel about themselves. And they all said, I'm too dark, I'm too fat, I'm too skinny, whatever it may have been, but it was some extreme of that type.

• 29:00Speaker 00

  And it was really painful. Some of them cried, some of them were deep breathing. Like it was emotional for them to express that, but they were very vulnerable. What they didn't know is we had their younger sisters watching from behind the scenes. So their sisters were actually watching this conversation. And after I had this conversation with them, I invited their younger sisters out, who'd been writing a letter to them about how they felt about them. And so these, it's truly my favorite video I've ever created in my life, because it wasn't casted, it wasn't, it was like, it was all real. And these little girls came out, not all of them, but their younger sisters came out and had these, like, literally like these letters of love for their sisters. And they read them out and it was just the most heartwarming thing in the world,

• 29:45Speaker 00

  because these girls who saw themselves as less than, as unworthy, their sisters were like, you're my idol, you're my inspiration, like, you're everything to me. And that exchange is what we have to learn to give ourselves. You may not have a younger sister, brother, or person in your life. You may not have an older sister, brother, person in your life who does that. We've got to do that for ourselves. And I hope that those love letters will be the notes you wish other people wrote for you.

• 30:13Ashley Hesseltine?

  I love that. There's probably a lot to be said for like writing a love letter to your younger self, or even like your future self. I have a friend of ours who's like a psychic medium, all the things, like she's been doing that exercise with some women. Like, write a letter to your future self, manifesting what you picture your life to be at that time that you're writing that. And she said, people have been really getting what they want. I just think it's really powerful and sometimes people feel like, that's so corny. And it's like, I don't know what's better, that or all the negative commentary you have running through your head about yourself.

• 30:43Speaker 00

  That's my point, right? You've only got two choices. So it's, it's like, right? Like, it's either this negative repetitive pattern that we know where that goes. We've already lived that truth.

• 30:52Ashley Hesseltine?

  Right.

• 30:53Speaker 00

  So why not try something new? And yes, it might be a bit. In the beginning, might feel a bit corny or may feel a bit cheesy, but I, I promise you that having a great relationship with yourself is not cheesy or corny.

• 31:04Rayna Greenberg?

  There's this marketing tactic that if you get served the same ad, takes three times to like buy something.

• 31:09Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 31:09Rayna Greenberg?

  And imagine you told yourself something terrible like a hundred times and now you've trained your brain to think this. And if we start the opposite practice of checking it three times, maybe you'll actually like buy that you're a good product.

• 31:19Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. I always say to people that you can only control, you can't control sixty to eighty thousand thoughts per day. But you can control your first thought of the day and the last thought of your day. And if the first thought of the day is one that you want to start your day with, that's awesome. And if the last thought is one you're grateful for, that's great. Like that's what you're working on. So three thoughts is good. I like that.

• 31:38Rayna Greenberg?

  I love that. Well, I, I think that like so much of this, I, I love thinking about finding love in terms of starting with yourself and stopping the nag of self-talk and thinking about what you want. So if we get to the point where we're like, okay, I've done all that work, easy, you know, done, did it? And we're ready to find love. You talk a lot in your book about not writing this prescribed list of traits you want and instead creating love. So I would love for you to talk about that.

• 32:00Ashley Hesseltine?

  Oh yeah. Well, I wrote that quote down. I just, how do you intentionally build love instead of wishing, wanting, and waiting for it to arrive fully formed?

• 32:07Speaker 00

  So studies show seventy percent of people believe in soulmates. And that's mind blowing to me because their definition is there's one person who's perfectly made for me that I'm meant to find. And when we find each other, that will be it.

• 32:20Rayna Greenberg?

  Boo.

• 32:21Speaker 00

  Right. No, no, no. And I'm on, and by the way, I'm on your side too. I, I don't.

• 32:25Rayna Greenberg?

  It's fairy tale shit. Actually, it's the thirty percent. Yeah.

• 32:27Speaker 00

  Yeah. I don't agree. I don't agree with that because the challenge with that is you're saying that you're going to wish, want, wait, hope to find that one person, which means you might have to go through eight billion people in the world to know, right? Otherwise, there's always plenty more fish in the sea. There's always more choice.

• 32:44Rayna Greenberg?

  It gives up a little bit of control too. You know, you're not really in the driver's seat in this scenario. You're just like, it's out there.

• 32:50Speaker 00

  It does. And and what I actually love about love is that love's a choice. So if you don't believe they're soulmates, you're actually saying we're choosing to be together. Like you're saying that that person wasn't made for me or meant for me. We made it work. Like, isn't that so much better that we actually found someone that we cared enough to commit to? So yeah, that was the fully formed piece of just making the point that you're not gonna suddenly find someone who ticks every box. And I think if you have too much of a prescribed list, someone could tick seven and not tick three, and now they're off the list. It gets really hard, or you think you're compromising on three things when you're actually not. I think my challenge with the list of what you want in a person is often it's very vague.

• 33:31Speaker 00

  It's also just like, good sense of humor, tall, attractive, funny, interesting, smart, like that's like a lot of people and not a lot of people, right? Like that's just, that's not a good enough list in terms of, oh, kind. And it's like, okay, well, someone could be kind and still a narcissist, or someone could be, someone could be kind and manipulative, like, you you're not writing things off by having that list. And therefore, I think you're better off seeing what someone shows you and experiencing them. And actually getting to know someone and how they react. So for example, if you only see someone when you're both happy, when you have two hours free every week, you're not seeing them. You're seeing them for two hours happy a week. If you call someone after work when they're stressed out, now you're seeing them.

• 34:17Speaker 00

  If you see someone with their family, now you're seeing them. If you see someone with their friends, you're seeing them. You're now starting to actually see them. And so I find a lot of the time, we're seeing a specific version of someone. And if in that two hours, they can be kind, sincere, loving, we're saying they're kind, loving, sincere. But they're not exposed to any of the stuff that makes us those other things. Uh, I was reading a study recently that was showing how it's not that we're not kind people, it's that we're dealing with so much stress that stress stops us from being kind, or stress stops us from being who we wanna be. How someone deals with stress is almost a bigger telling sign of who they are and how they express themselves than if you see them in perfect mode all the time.

• 34:58Ashley Hesseltine?

  Also, like, yeah. Take a kind person who's out here saying, I want someone unkind.

• 35:03Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's my point, right?

• 35:05Ashley Hesseltine?

  Kind of a given. And if you're like, I want unkind, high tail it to therapy. That's crazy. I want someone to be a dick to me, not respect me, cross my boundaries, you know? So yeah, I think we can take kind as a given.

• 35:17Rayna Greenberg?

  I see this a lot in online dating where you look at profiles and they're just, the person they're describing could be anybody and the person that like they're saying that they want could be anybody. So people are like, I love to travel and I just want somebody nice. And I'm just like, I don't know. That could be anybody, you know? I don't know if I fit into your list and I don't know anything about you either. You like your family, you like to travel. That's everybody alive.

• 35:39Speaker 00

  And that's a good starting point, but that's what I'm saying. It can't be that list. And so I break it down to three things. Uh, I think that you find people, and I think you agree because of what you were saying back on my show. Uh, there's three things, people, projects and places. So I feel that you find the person you want to be with in places of equal value. That could be anywhere from a club, a society, a surfing group, a cycling group, a book club. Like it's a place that you go to where you find someone because you're into the same thing. And so you can narrow it down by that. And I've, I've met people who've met at charities and like, you know, or travel groups or whatever.

• 36:15Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, for like a dog event, like, yeah, we both love dogs. Like, you know, I'm, I'm not going to go to a Trump rally and expect to meet a guy there.

• 36:23Speaker 00

  No, but no, but even, even like when you think about like, everyone's like hoping to bump into someone at Air One in LA or like, you know, like you.

• 36:29Rayna Greenberg?

  My bags at Air One.

• 36:30Speaker 00

  Yeah, exactly. Like you're hoping to bump into someone at a grocery store. You're hoping to bump into someone at a bar. You're, you know, you, but you think you're going to bump into someone when you look your best, right? Like you have that idea that like, oh, and I'm dressed up at night. Like that's when I'm going to bump into the one. Actually, you might be meeting someone in a very overly curated way, and that may not be where you meet them. But it may be, and when people say you find someone when you least expect it, it's not that. I think sometimes you find someone when you're least prepared in the sense of you're not going out there going, I'm going to find someone tonight. Because sometimes those places you look in aren't the places that you find a long-term, healthy relationship. Uh, and so you have people of equal value as.

• 37:10Speaker 00

  Well, that introduced you. I think we spoke about that, the idea that if you have someone in your life who has equal values or things they care about, that person is going to make great intros and I think making people aware and getting connected. And then the final is projects of equal value. I think at work you were saying that, you know, with your work, you're more likely to bump into more people.

• 37:29Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 37:29Speaker 00

  And I think people underestimate just how much work, charity work, any work around their world, even taking on a side hustle or a side gig like where you're likely to bump into someone.

• 37:39Ashley Hesseltine?

  Mm hmm. Well, Raina mentioned dating apps, which kind of jogged my memory of something I wanted to ask you about that was what we put out there to the world is what we get back.

• 37:47Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 37:48Ashley Hesseltine?

  And the way you stated, I forget the exact quote, but

• 37:50Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 37:51Ashley Hesseltine?

  what you perceive to be valuable. Like you can obviously speak on it, but I just love the examples of like a man that's going to put on his dating app or he's going to put out in the world, like I have this fancy car, I have all this money and then complains when women just use them for his money.

• 38:02Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 38:02Ashley Hesseltine?

  Or I guess a woman that has, you know, her butt crack on her hinge and she's like, these guys just think I just want to fuck. It's like, I don't know. Your booty hole was like, friends better.

• 38:12Rayna Greenberg?

  Are you going butt crack first?

• 38:14Ashley Hesseltine?

  I'm not, but I'm saying like, and it's not that you deserve to be violated.

• 38:19Rayna Greenberg?

  Objectified, yeah.

• 38:19Ashley Hesseltine?

  Objectified, that's a better word than violated. But if you're putting out a certain type of energy, you are going to get it back.

• 38:25Speaker 00

  Yeah, we make decisions based on three to eight seconds of what we see of someone. Right? Whether it's a picture or a short video or a short clip or a, or a little bio, you're making a big decision based on very little information. And so that little information becomes even more valuable. And so I was talking about in my book, I, I have this idea, which is uh, you attract what you use to impress.

• 38:47Ashley Hesseltine?

  Uh, there it is.

• 38:48Speaker 00

  Right? You attract what you use to impress. And so if I, I was giving an example of my client who's always dripping in like Gucci or Louis Vuitton or whatever it may be, he'll always be wearing designer. Now he is wealthy, granted, but if that's all anyone ever sees, and then a month later he's complaining, oh, she just wanted me to buy her Gucci handbags. And I'm like, well, what did you expect? Yeah, that's what you set yourself up for. Or if you're impressing someone only through one aspect of yourself and you're banking on that aspect, I promise you, they're going to stay with you. You for that and they'll leave you because of that, because someone else does that aspect better. Whether that's your looks, whether that's money, whether that's fame, like if someone does it better, you're replaceable now because you've marketed yourself.

• 39:31Speaker 00

  And I think we don't like this idea because we don't think we're marketing ourselves. But today on the apps, it is literally like online shopping, right? That's, that's the experience people are having. It's like, do I want that? No. Do I want that? No. Do I want? Oh yeah, I, I would want that. But then if you've only got the retention based on, you know, the ad in the shop front, then you've got to be ready for that's what they're primarily looking for.

• 39:53Rayna Greenberg?

  Absolutely. And it goes conversely also, if you're just, if your primary thing is I'm looking for somebody with money, which go off. Money makes things really fun.

• 40:01Ashley Hesseltine?

  Or just looking for sex or whatever.

• 40:02Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, like if you're looking.

• 40:03Speaker 00

  There's nothing wrong with that. Yeah, I'm not saying.

• 40:04Rayna Greenberg?

  No, there's nothing wrong with it. I love money and money's great. Uh, and it makes things really fun and easier. But if all you're seeking out is money or sex, and then that's what you get from a person, you can't be necessarily disappointed if the other things that you wanted, like, listen, everybody should be kind to you, but if your primary thing was money or your primary thing is being degraded in bed, did you look at the other things? I like it, you know?

• 40:28Rayna Greenberg?

  So you can't be mad when that's what you get, you know? I, I know somebody in particular, I think she only dates for money and what people do for work. And that's fine, because I know that she wants stability and lots of people want that. And I think that money helps you, helps you to be a good parent sometimes. She dates for that. And then she seems almost surprised and disappointed when somebody only talks about their money. I'm just like, but where's the surprise here?

• 40:54Speaker 00

  But that's a really interesting point, right? If you date someone for money, you may get financial stability, but get tons of emotional instability, right? Or emotional disinterest. And that's, I, I love that point you're making, like it's, it's also how we define these words. Like if you're saying, I want stability, I fully respect and understand that. But are you open to emotional volatility for financial stability, right? And I think we're not letting someone show us what else they are. I think it's also. There's, there's this, it's really subtle and I think I encourage everyone to learn about the biases in our mind and psychology because we don't even know when they're acting on us.

• 41:31Ashley Hesseltine?

  Mm hmm.

• 41:31Speaker 00

  And so one of the biases is called the halo effect. And the halo effect is when you find something attractive about someone, you start giving them other qualities. So if you think someone's good looking, you believe they're trustworthy. If someone has a good job, they must be organized.

• 41:48Ashley Hesseltine?

  Mm hmm.

• 41:49Speaker 00

  Right? If someone's famous, then they must be really likable and interesting.

• 41:53Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 41:53Speaker 00

  So you start placing all these other qualities that are actually nothing to do with that quality. But you start just giving them away. And so my take is be more of someone who's going to experience someone's energy and decide that rather than assuming it exists because of something else you've seen.

• 42:10Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. Absolutely. Some of this is just sitting down and thinking about it.

• 42:14Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 42:14Ashley Hesseltine?

  And I know sometimes those things are hard when you're also flooded with hormones and emotions and things like that. Like, you're like, well, I don't want to sit down and have to like be discerning about whether or not, you know, I just want to believe he's like the superstar that I think he is.

• 42:29Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 42:29Ashley Hesseltine?

  It's like, we all do it though. You can't really fault. But at some point, you have to actually think about it.

• 42:35Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. Well, I think you should only think about it if you want to take care of your heart in six months, right? Like that, that's, that's, that's why, like, you don't have to think about it. You can just go with your feelings and you can feel great for three months, six months, and then end up in a situation you don't want to be in.

• 42:50Ashley Hesseltine?

  Mm hmm.

• 42:50Speaker 00

  And so the only reason that you have to be discerning or reflective or thoughtful about this is to protect yourself.

• 42:56Ashley Hesseltine?

  Mm hmm.

• 42:57Speaker 00

  And I think now more and more, we have to protect ourselves. And when I say protect ourselves, I don't mean don't go on dates. I'm not saying don't go meet people. I'm not saying, you know, don't have fun. I'm just saying that you've got to be thoughtful with your emotions. And I think we often leave our emotions at the door when we're attracted to someone or when we're infatuated or find someone to be especially out of our league. I think that's a really interesting idea that's been planted by media that when you think someone's out of your league. And again, that idea comes from movies and TV and all the rest of it. And it's like, well, based on what? Like if you're saying someone's out of your league, chances are you're only looking at them through one lens.

• 43:36Ashley Hesseltine?

  Right.

• 43:36Speaker 00

  Because you're not looking at the full relationship. You're not looking at it three sixty.

• 43:40Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, it's also okay to check into yourself and say, I made a mistake. I want to unchoose this choice. You know, like maybe you dated for money and success and you get into that and you're like, I'm inside of this big home and from the outside it looks great, but I'm not happy in the home. You know, it's okay. I think we're really afraid to like admit like we fucked up and like admit quote unquote failure. But it's fine to unchoose that choice and it's better than staying longer.

• 44:05Speaker 00

  Yeah, I had a client who'd married someone who's extremely wealthy and then felt controlled by his family and their security. So security had to follow around everywhere because.

• 44:16Ashley Hesseltine?

  Like security, security.

• 44:17Speaker 00

  Security, security.

• 44:18Ashley Hesseltine?

  Guards, Raina's turned on now.

• 44:19Speaker 00

  Yeah, Raina's already, yeah, yeah, exactly. We'll, we'll hook you up with a security guard, but uh, but yeah, security guards had to be around her like. Uh, and, and they weren't, they weren't famous. They were wealthy, but that, that was part of it.

• 44:31Ashley Hesseltine?

  I know you interview a lot of famous people, Jay.

• 44:33Speaker 00

  They had to, they had to take out, you know, they had to get permission to leave the home.

• 44:37Ashley Hesseltine?

  Right.

• 44:37Speaker 00

  And, and it wasn't that the person wasn't good to them. It was just their lifestyle came with other ramifications.

• 44:42Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, it's hard being married.

• 44:43Speaker 00

  And that's very extreme, of course, but.

• 44:45Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. Well, you taught, you're obsessed with love and you, you know, you wrote a book about it, but in general, and one of the themes I love is that like just putting more love out into the world to, to get it back. And we love the importance of non-romantic love too. And I just love talking about this topic because. I am not in a romantic relationship, but I feel so full of love with my family and my friends and now. My passions in life and love for myself, of course, too. And so I just would love to speak on that because I think that if you feel devoid of. Love completely, it seems like you would be more inclined to enter into an unhealthy romantic relationship. Because you're almost desperate for love.

• 45:26Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think we've placed romantic love at the top of the hierarchy of love. So we believe that if you have a person, then your life is perfect. And almost all the other love you have in your life is insignificant, like it's not as important. It's secondary. It's secondary. For sure. It's like, okay, if I have a person, then my life is perfect. If I don't, then my life is imperfect, no matter how much love I have. Yeah. And I was working with a lot of single moms, like, uh, coaching and, and I was like, wait a minute, these single moms like adore their children. Yeah. And their children adore them, like, love them, like, anything. And I was like, so are we saying that love is not as important as the love that a romantic couple has? I was like, well, are we evaluating that love is less worth it?

• 46:11Speaker 00

  Or like siblings, I know siblings that absolutely love each other, that have, they have each other's back, that have a great bond. My, my sister's like that, right? Like, I was talking about her before, like, my sister has my back no matter what, I have hers. And I think that that's a beautiful source of love in my life that I've had in my life for my whole life. And I would never say that that was less than the love I have in my wife. It's different, but it's, it's not less than in terms of the experience of love. And so I think what we've done is we've placed romantic love on a pedestal. And because of that, we feel unworthy and inadequate when we have actually all this other love in our lives.

• 46:52Speaker 00

  And I think if you actually looked around at your life, you'd realize you have so much love from your family, you have so much love from your friends. You have so much love if you do have children, you have so much love from your parents and the love you have for your parents. I mean, my wife right now is in London because her grandmother's in hospital. And she's with her grandmother because her grandmother is her favorite person on earth. And I have no issue saying that, like, I know my wife, like, I have no issue saying that because watching my wife love her grandmother and her grandmother's love for her is so beautiful. And so I would hope that anyone who's single or someone who's broken up recently or someone who's actually been with someone for decades and now it hasn't worked out.

• 47:34Speaker 00

  Please don't think your life is over or incomplete because of that, because there's so many more people to love and receive love from.

• 47:40Rayna Greenberg?

  It is so true and I it's a beautiful sentiment and I think it goes back to what you were saying in the beginning that we're taught to be embarrassed to be at a wedding by ourselves. I think that we grow up feeling like, you know, even if I check the box of like success and money and hobbies and friends that like if I don't check the romance box that like everything is terrible.

• 48:00Speaker 00

  Totally.

• 48:01Rayna Greenberg?

  And I remember thinking after the worst breakup of my life, all the people that swarmed around me, all the people that came over to like sit shiva with me as I was wanting to break up.

• 48:13Rayna Greenberg?

  Thank you. People who like brought me food or like took our engagement presents, put them on the curb for me, you know, I just the amount of people that just circulated through my home just to like make sure I was okay, make sure I didn't sleep alone at night. It meant so much to me and it made me be like, oh my God, I have so much in my life that I'd, why did I hang on to this relationship that I knew wasn't right? And even though he was a kind person, I didn't really want to marry this person. Why did I hang on to this? Cause I was like, oh my God, look at all these things around me. But sometimes it almost takes like a terrible situation to realize that.

• 48:47Speaker 00

  And the sad thing is those are often the people that get forgotten when you're in a relationship. Right? Like a lot of the time, like you have this amazing community, a great group of people around you, you get into a relationship, you forget about all those amazing people. But when you break up, they're there to help you. When your partner's traveling, they're there to help you.

• 49:03Ashley Hesseltine?

  And those are the people that are the ones that are there. I mean, Raina and I, we do have this podcast about dating and sex and relationships. But people really feel like it's about our relationship with each other and just female friendship in general. And every whenever we do a friendship episode, it's just crushing.

• 49:16Speaker 00

  I love that.

• 49:17Ashley Hesseltine?

  Friendship podcast, but it's those are the real deal. Those like long-term friends and family. And I love what you said too. I mean, when my dog passed, my previous dog, like the outpouring of love like healed my heart. Like it really was the thing that helped me get through it. People were like, you really were able to. Get through that traumatic experience. It was, it was pretty rough. Um, but it was like, that was how, that was literally how, just feeling the love from other people, it heals you.

• 49:44Rayna Greenberg?

  It does. You, you brought up something that I think is interesting. It's sometimes we do get into relationships and we just jettison everything.

• 49:50Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, because we have it on the pedestal. Like, nothing else matters. So it's like, if you get the, the top love, the other ones fall by the wayside.

• 49:58Speaker 00

  Literally.

• 49:58Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 49:58Rayna Greenberg?

  And it's important, I think, to really check in with yourself because I didn't in my twenties. I didn't say to myself like, well, maybe I don't need to be with him every day of the week. Maybe I should like have more dinners with my friends and I have to call him like a girls' night out. Maybe I could just have a night out with my friends and, and enjoy it a little more and prioritize these people more. And it became such a priority for me after that breakup. Um, because you're like, these people are still here and they still want to support you, but we do forget to do that, I think sometimes.

• 50:23Speaker 00

  I think, I think in a relationship, and I break this down in the book, I, I set up like an ideal week.

• 50:27Rayna Greenberg?

  The calendar. I wonder if you have the calendar. Thank you.

• 50:30Speaker 00

  And I'm not saying you have to live your week that way. It was just an idea of the things to think about. I think when we get into a relationship, we think about, oh, it's just me and them. And if me and them are good, then things are good. And if me and them are bad, then things are bad. And all of our obsession becomes about, well, how are me and them, i.e. the person you're with? And actually, there's time you need by yourself every week. I think everyone needs a break, no matter how much you love each other. It's why friendship works so well. It's because you don't see each other 24/7 every single day.

• 50:57Rayna Greenberg?

  Why we don't fly together on the same, in the same area of the planet.

• 50:59Speaker 00

  Really?

• 51:00Rayna Greenberg?

  We fly and say flight, we just don't sit together.

• 51:02Speaker 00

  Don't sit together? Do you really do that?

• 51:05Rayna Greenberg?

  We, we just don't. We just try to not, we're together a lot. We like to take space from each other. We're not a romantic partner, but.

• 51:11Speaker 00

  And can you imagine, so you do that as friends and it, and it, and it wasn't awkward at all. Imagine you said to your partner, like someone you were dating and you were like, you know what? I don't want to sit next to you on the plane because I think we should take some time out. Like, it would be seen as like, everything's ending.

• 51:23Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yes. And I love, I know that Rain and I don't have a romantic relationship, duh. But the things that we're able to do, I want so badly in a romantic partner. One day where I could be like, I need a little space or like, you know, the.

• 51:33Speaker 00

  That's what I'm saying.

• 51:33Ashley Hesseltine?

  Really clearly communicate and it, it's not an insult and it doesn't mean I love her any less or anything like that.

• 51:40Speaker 00

  But that's what I'm saying, right? So like spending time alone. Second thing is. Spending time with that person, obviously. The third thing is spending time with your own friends. I find a lot of people's relationships hide in big groups of couples. So people are always spending time with lots of couples and they're they're in a relationship. Then they never spend time alone. They never spend time with their own friends and they never spend that much time with each other. Unless they're surrounded by lots of people. And you can hide in that. You can hide your relationship in that space. And constantly look for external forms of stimulation to feel excited about your own relationship. And so I think an ideal week or an ideal month includes time by yourself. Time with your partner, time with your own friends and time with collective friends.

• 52:24Speaker 00

  And that's like a healthy balance of the different relationships you need in your life.

• 52:28Rayna Greenberg?

  Absolutely.

• 52:29Ashley Hesseltine?

  And you really lay it out so easily. You can just just map it out, map your week out. I mean, this is my parents have been married for forty years, not that length matters. But they're still they're like the.

• 52:38Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, but they're really happy.

• 52:39Ashley Hesseltine?

  They're like a different level. And so much of that is the separate friends. My mom has more friends than anyone I know. She's the busiest retiree, like she has so many activities and friends and different groups of friends. They travel separately. She goes on girl's trips all the time, like it never changed. And you see couples that that's it. It's just the someone's mom and dad and they have no friends and they're together every night. They have the same routine and it really gives me the ick.

• 53:04Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 53:04Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, I mean, you can't.

• 53:07Rayna Greenberg?

  You can't let having nothing else in your life be the reason to stay with this person. It's a really dangerous place to be. I think we start to make really bad decisions about our own mental health and sometimes our safety. When we have nothing else in our lives, it's a really bad thing to do for yourself. So the more you can have friends outside of your relationship and the more you can travel. I remember this relationship ended and I was like, I've never traveled. What the fuck have I been doing all these years? And it's you make a lot of decisions based on I can't lose this because I'll lose everything. And it's a bad place to be.

• 53:39Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. So we've done a lot of talk about being single and some, you know, pitfalls of being in a relationship. But I would love to turn around and just hear what you feel like is the best thing about. Romantic love and like your relationship like how does it what do you feel like the best part of that type of relationship is?

• 53:56Speaker 00

  From my own experience?

• 53:57Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, sure.

• 53:58Speaker 00

  So I haven't seen my wife for ten days. We're we're used to spending time apart because I travel for work. She travels for work. She goes back to London and I'm I'm happy and good and things are great. And then I'll FaceTime her and be like, wow, I'm so much more happy when I see your face. It's like that moment where it's like, oh, wow, I was good. I didn't even actually, I was fine. Like, things were great. And then all of a sudden, I realized how great they could be. And I think that's one of my favorite things about being in a relationship is the reminder for me of just how incredible things can be. If I had to say, I'll I'll give a fun answer, and I'll give a a deeper answer. A fun answer is like, I love having someone that I can do so many normal things with, right? Like, someone that

• 54:42Speaker 00

  you're happy to do anything and everything with. It doesn't have to be this amazing day. It doesn't have to be something incredible. It can be as simple as like, oh, we're just gonna go shopping. We're just gonna go for a walk. We're just gonna go do this. You know, we're just, I think having someone that you can do everyday things with, but it still feels meaningful, is is actually a really beautiful thing to do the ordinary. With my wife, one of our favorite things to do together is try out new things together. And so whether it's escape rooms, whether it's a pottery class, a cooking class, whether it's a rage room, we literally went, I don't know if you've ever been to a rage room. We broke stuff.

• 55:14Ashley Hesseltine?

  Dying to go.

• 55:15Speaker 00

  Very uncomfortable. So, oh, here's a tip. So usually people go there when they're mad, and it de-stresses you. The problem is, we went there quite peaceful, and it stressed us out. So, so do not go, only go if you wanna hit a picture of an ex, or, you know, like.

• 55:29Ashley Hesseltine?

  Can you bring them?

• 55:30Speaker 00

  You can bring pictures. They actually said to us, they're like, who do you wanna hit today?

• 55:33Ashley Hesseltine?

  Can you start a fire?

• 55:34Speaker 00

  Uh, you, I don't think you can start a fire, but they give you.

• 55:36Ashley Hesseltine?

  Can you start a fire? I almost missed that. I'm so glad that I did not. Ashley's like, can I commit arson in the room? If that doesn't exist, we're starting that. In a trash can? Fire room.

• 55:47Speaker 00

  They give you baseball bats, they give you, there's, there's like all old, broken computers, fax machines, they give you bottles, that like all this old stuff and they lock you in a room. And me and my wife walked out stressed. So then they told us afterwards.

• 56:02Rayna Greenberg?

  This was a mistake. That's so true. Don't go unless you really need range to get out.

• 56:07Speaker 00

  And we didn't need it. We didn't need it. So that was, so I, we love, uh, and this is part of something I talk about that. I think a lot of couples today, the, the studies show that the most common thing we do, and it's, we don't even need a study, we know this. The most common thing we do with our partners is watch TV, right? Like that's what we do. And there's no surprise that intimacy is dropping, depth's dropping, physical connection's dropping because all we do is watch TV together.

• 56:31Rayna Greenberg?

  That's so true.

• 56:31Speaker 00

  There's no shared experience, there's no connection, there's no feeling of like, oh, we just did that together, we experienced something together. There's no like, oh, you're more attractive after watching that TV program. You know, you don't feel any of that after watching a show on TV. Whereas when you do something fun and new and exciting, your partner's more exciting, they're more fresh, they're more attractive, they're more interesting. You get more curious, like so much happens when you do things. My wife right now is really into extreme sports. Everywhere we go, she's like, I want to surf, I want to wakeboard. And it's like, she's such a badass.

• 57:02Rayna Greenberg?

  I wish she was here.

• 57:03Speaker 00

  Like, yeah, watching her do that is so cool. I'm not joining in, right? Cause I'm like, I'm good, um, you know? But it's, it's so, you feel so much more attracted to your partner when you're seeing them do things they love. And they're seeing you do things you love. And so I think that's been a big, big part of what's kept our relationship so fun and exciting and fresh is that she's constantly seeing me grow in so many ways. I'm seeing her grow in so many ways. And, and that allows for that spark to stay as opposed to like, you only see your partner cook the same meal, clean the same place, do the laundry, which is, which we all do normal, but it's like, if you're only seeing your partner do those things, how are you suddenly gonna feel that energy towards them?

• 57:44Rayna Greenberg?

  You're so right. It doesn't breed new experiences. I think about this all the time. I used to work in a restaurant and somebody came in to buy a gift card for a wedding. Um, they bought a gift card to all the restaurants and the message on the gift card said, never stop dating as their marriage gift. And I that's very much what you're describing. You're married, but you guys don't ever stop dating.

• 58:01Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 58:01Rayna Greenberg?

  That is so inspiring to me and you always just want to create new experiences because like, what is there to talk about? If every day we come home, we just watch TV.

• 58:08Speaker 00

  Or your day is dinners and a movie, right? Like even that, like dating in that way, like let's do date now. Okay. We'll go for dinner. We'll both be on our phones. We'll say we went out on date night, then we watched a movie together and went to sleep.

• 58:19Ashley Hesseltine?

  Well, and you can, even if that's the lowest level, that's all you got, at least go somewhere new restaurant wise. Try a different type of cuisine or, you know, with such low hanging fruit is a comedy show.

• 58:29Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 58:29Ashley Hesseltine?

  I mean,

• 58:29Speaker 00

  Love that idea.

• 58:30Ashley Hesseltine?

  There's so much to do and I also understand when you're just tired. I, I get it. I have all the empathy in the world for people that have a bunch of kids and you're like,

• 58:37Speaker 00

  Sure, sure.

• 58:37Ashley Hesseltine?

  It's almost like, maybe that's not what's happening in this season of our lives, but eventually we can get back there. And I think you see couples go through those waves where all they can do with this house of kids is fucking watch TV. That's really all they got.

• 58:51Speaker 00

  And that makes sense for that season for sure. Yeah.

• 58:53Ashley Hesseltine?

  You know, and then there's babysitters too. Like I just think, again, I can't give relationship advice to people that have been married for, married for one, ever, but it's, it's, it's such a good call of like, what else do you have to talk about and keep it fresh and exciting?

• 59:08Rayna Greenberg?

  You know what I like to like step it up a level is like instead of the dusty old movie theaters, I love those like ones with the giant seats that recline. They serve you food and alcohol while you're in the seats. Like just step it up a little.

• 59:17Ashley Hesseltine?

  Or go to the drive in, make out in the car.

• 59:20Rayna Greenberg?

  Finger somebody in a car.

• 59:22Ashley Hesseltine?

  Get fingered. Yes. Bring some smear of ISIS.

• 59:26Rayna Greenberg?

  Give a blowjob. Yeah.

• 59:27Ashley Hesseltine?

  She took it there.

• 59:28Rayna Greenberg?

  Well, you asked us something, um, as we were wrapping up on your show, it really was such a pleasure and we encourage people to go listen to that because, gosh, I loved it so much. What would you say is some of your best relationship advice? What's the best relationship advice?

• 59:40Speaker 00

  No one ever asked me this back. So now it's,

• 59:42Rayna Greenberg?

  You've heard. Yeah. Or that you've heard.

• 59:44Speaker 00

  All right.

• 59:45Rayna Greenberg?

  Take your time. We'll add it. We'll add it out the pause.

• 59:47Speaker 00

  No, you can give the pause in. I want it to be a thoughtful answer.

• 59:50Ashley Hesseltine?

  I have another burning question too.

• 59:52Rayna Greenberg?

  You can give three things, whatever.

• 59:53Speaker 00

  Best relationship advice I've ever heard, received or given.

• 59:57Ashley Hesseltine?

  See, it's tough.

• 59:57Speaker 00

  It is very, it's very tough. It's very tough.

• 1:00:00Rayna Greenberg?

  We're going to do the worst also in a second.

• 1:00:02Speaker 00

  Yeah, do it. Um, I'd say the best advice is,

• 1:00:09Speaker 00

  Don't be afraid to grow, but make sure you communicate it to your partner.

• 1:00:15Ashley Hesseltine?

  Wow.

• 1:00:15Speaker 00

  So I think often we're changing and growing, but we don't communicate in the change and the transition. We communicate when it's done. And then our partner has to catch up.

• 1:00:23Ashley Hesseltine?

  And then you've left them behind.

• 1:00:24Speaker 00

  Then our partner has to catch up. So often what happens is we've gone through three years of internal turmoil. And we finally made it like we're there where we want to be. Now we tell our partner what's going on, but they didn't have three years to witness it and experience it. And so you're expecting them in three minutes to understand something you took three years to do. And then you feel that they don't understand you and they're not with you and it's not true. They just need time to catch up.

• 1:00:50Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, I love that.

• 1:00:52Rayna Greenberg?

  That was really beautiful. Do you want to ask your question or should we get the worst advice first?

• 1:00:56Speaker 00

  Yeah, I'll do the worst. I'll fill in the worst. Let's do the worst.

• 1:00:59Rayna Greenberg?

  What's yeah, what do you think the worst dating advice is? It can be grab bag, it could be a couple of things.

• 1:01:02Speaker 00

  Yeah, no, no, no, I like it. You made me think and I think something better came out. So let me. Have another kid, it will work out.

• 1:01:10Ashley Hesseltine?

  Oh, God.

• 1:01:12Speaker 00

  Like I've had, like I've had so many of my friends have been told that.

• 1:01:16Ashley Hesseltine?

  By who?

• 1:01:17Speaker 00

  Literally, I've like genuinely or have a kid, it will work out. Like just make that the.

• 1:01:22Ashley Hesseltine?

  It will legally bind you.

• 1:01:24Speaker 00

  Yeah, and.

• 1:01:25Ashley Hesseltine?

  More so than a marriage even though.

• 1:01:27Speaker 00

  I've had a lot of people that I know at least that have, you know, honestly opened up and told me that that's the advice they got. They're like, if you've got issues, have a kid, you guys will bond, it will be a bond like no other. And it's like, you can't use a kid as that, like can't use a kid to bond. Like a kid should deepen your bond, but it's not to use it as the bond.

• 1:01:45Ashley Hesseltine?

  It's so interesting to now observe my brother and his wife with their new baby and with Jay, baby Jay. I can't imagine, well, I mean, I have all the respect in the world for a single parent. It's like, it's because of how difficult it is and on top of. Potentially a single parent, just being in a relationship that's not loving and healthy because of what you have to do together like and people do this and again, all the respect in the world for them. This is not an insult, but it's so much better when there is love there and partnership and you're on the same team, like just to watch them work together because of the constant around the clock care that it takes to raise a human and a healthy human,

• 1:02:28Ashley Hesseltine?

  you know, because those attachment styles really start at birth. I feel like we're seeing so much more research about how early those things really do start and how important it is. I can't imagine it any other way. And I feel for people who don't have that. And if you have that, you're so lucky because it's just, it's, it's hard to fathom that you wouldn't feel that support and that 50 50 partnership, raising a literal person.

• 1:02:51Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah. Your brother, I asked him at Christmas dinner. I was like, what, what has your experience been being a new father? Do, is it harder than people said? Is it easier? And he said, I don't know. It's, he said, I just, I have the best partner in the world to do this with. And he was like, I'm just so lucky. I have her. She's just like the best. And it's nice to see two people be a team that really wanted to do this together.

• 1:03:09Ashley Hesseltine?

  Right. What, yes, because they both wanted it so badly too. And then sometimes you see like a parent that's like, didn't really want it that bad. And then they're a little checked out. And so, okay, my question, how do you meditate? I'm just kidding. I'm kidding. Someone who, there's so much in what you do for a living and also in the book of just stillness and being with yourself and meditation, things like this. And I think it seems so intimidating to some people. Like, is there any advice you have or anything for someone that's like, I gotta start doing this. I gotta start being with myself. I have to stop letting my mind run wild and really sit and meditate and do these things. Do you have any 101 place to start?

• 1:03:48Speaker 00

  Yeah, definitely. I mean, I'm genuinely not saying this as a plug. I'm saying it because we created for this reason, but people can meditate with me every single day on the Calm app. Seven minutes, every single day.

• 1:03:57Ashley Hesseltine?

  We talked about that on our, on our.

• 1:03:58Speaker 00

  It's seven minutes every single day. It's new content every single day. And so, yeah, every single day.

• 1:04:05Ashley Hesseltine?

  That's right. It's a daily J.

• 1:04:06Speaker 00

  It's called a daily J. Yeah. The whole reason why I created that is because I always got this question.

• 1:04:10Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay.

• 1:04:10Speaker 00

  Saying, Jay, how do? I meditate and I'd always say, well, read this book or try this or try that. And it would just be like, well, someone's going to do that for three days and give up. And so that's why we launched the Daily J because you can literally meditate with me every single day on the car map. And the seven minutes is designed with everything from breathing to an insight to a reflection. So anyone who struggles with doing any of this stuff on their own, it gives you every aspect of what to do on your own. And so if you listen to every day, you get a bit of breath work to calm you down, to still your body, to still your mind. You get an insight, so you've learned something new, you feel like you're growing and you get a reflection that you can take out and do with a friend or a family member or whatever it may be. And so that really sets you up uh to already have a really simple and easy meditation practice.

• 1:04:55Ashley Hesseltine?

  Well, I'm just gonna go with it then calm.com slash GGE for forty percent off your premium subscription.

• 1:05:01Speaker 00

  And if you're struggling to start the other way, like if you're like, oh, I don't want to do meditation, but I want to spend time with myself. And that's a very valid thought. What I would do, and I was going to talk about this earlier, I'm glad you asked this question is whether you've just been broken up with or whether you're single, go and do something hard alone. Like go and do something hard. If you do something hard, I promise you breaking up won't feel that hard anymore because you realize how strong you are. And I find that when people take up a sport, when people take up a new challenge, when people go and sign up to a new class. When you go and break through limits that you thought you had mentally or physically or emotionally. So many of these feelings take care of themselves because you realize your self-worth and your own value.

• 1:05:45Ashley Hesseltine?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 1:05:46Speaker 00

  Go do something hard, go do something tough on your own or with a friend or with a family member. It can be with other people too, but go do something difficult and you'll realize getting over someone wasn't as difficult as that.

• 1:05:56Ashley Hesseltine?

  That is incredible advice and it can be something as simple as I heard this on an episode of yours in ice bath.

• 1:06:03Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:06:04Ashley Hesseltine?

  Like you can do, you know, that's a nightmare for some people and it's good for your body.

• 1:06:09Speaker 00

  Absolutely.

• 1:06:09Ashley Hesseltine?

  To get out of there and be like, I breathed through that.

• 1:06:13Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:06:13Ashley Hesseltine?

  Got through that.

• 1:06:14Speaker 00

  It's worth giving it a go, definitely. And if you do it, partner up with a infrared sauna if you can. So you want to do three to seven minutes in the ice tub and then fifteen minutes in the sauna and do three cycles.

• 1:06:25Ashley Hesseltine?

  Oh, my gosh, this sounds amazing and terrifying.

• 1:06:28Rayna Greenberg?

  I love that. I really do.

• 1:06:29Speaker 00

  It was scary the first time I did it. I did it out of peer pressure. Just so you know, that's good.

• 1:06:33Rayna Greenberg?

  It's scary. It's been hard.

• 1:06:34Speaker 00

  The first time I did it, I was so scared. I only did it out of peer pressure. And because the person I was doing it with lasted four minutes, I had to last four minutes too. It's I was in there for the first time for four minutes, which is really difficult.

• 1:06:46Rayna Greenberg?

  That's really crazy.

• 1:06:46Speaker 00

  And but then when I broke through that, I was like, I can do this.

• 1:06:49Rayna Greenberg?

  You're like, I could handle a breakup. I can handle divorce after this.

• 1:06:52Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you could handle a lot of stuff. I just think that a lot of limits are in our mind, right? And so the more limits you break in your mind, you start going, oh, wow, like, I'm so much stronger than I thought I was.

• 1:07:03Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, traveling by myself. I was like, oh, shit, I really can do anything. You don't have to be cra- go to Cambodia by yourself like I did. But I mean, just go, just go upstate. Just take a drive by yourself. Seriously, I mean, not everybody has the money and the time to go take some crazy trip. Go one night upstate and stay overnight by yourself. And you're like, I handled this by myself. I did this all alone. Or jump in a nice bath.

• 1:07:23Ashley Hesseltine?

  Or you can go to dinner by yourself. I know some people's nightmare. I don't love doing it, but I definitely loved like a solo breakfast lunch. You know, you can bring a book if you feel like you need a crutch, but just if that's scary to you, do that.

• 1:07:34Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. Or just watch other couples be on their phones.

• 1:07:37Rayna Greenberg?

  Oh, actually, my favorite thing in the world is watching couples not talk to each other. Just like, I would so much rather be alone. It is so fascinating to me. I was in Juza in Venice, my brother and his wife. And I was, there was this couple next to us not speaking. And I was like, look at them. They're not talking. My brother was like, what? And I was like, they're not talking. And my sister-in-law was like, what are you saying? And I was like, they're not talking. And she was like, they're not talking to each other? And I was like, oh, my God, this is so embarrassing. You ruined it for me. Now they are talking about us to each other.

• 1:08:03Speaker 00

  You gave them something to talk about.

• 1:08:05Rayna Greenberg?

  I did.

• 1:08:05Ashley Hesseltine?

  Exactly. Now they have a common enemy.

• 1:08:08Rayna Greenberg?

  Yep. Find a common enemy. Yeah, it'll build any bond. Well, Jay, this was such a pleasure. We love doing your show as well. So I want to direct people to your show so they can find you our episode, but everything that you do. And if you want to plug your Vegan Chef Wife also, whatever, please, I'm sure people will want more and more and more of you and the book. So tell everybody where to get it.

• 1:08:26Speaker 00

  So thankful, so grateful to you. I love having such a real conversation about relationships and love. And I'm so glad where it went. But for anyone who would like to read the book, it's eightrulesoflove.com. You can order on Amazon, Barnes and Noble, wherever you read. Read books. You can also listen to it. If you prefer audiobooks, I read it myself. And so

• 1:08:43Ashley Hesseltine?

  Some people are gonna be into that for sure. I am, yeah. They love the voice.

• 1:08:48Speaker 00

  But thank you so much. Honestly, thank you to everyone who's been listening and watching as well. You have an amazing, amazing audience and I really appreciate this time. Thank you.

• 1:08:55Ashley Hesseltine?

  Thank you so much. This was a pleasure. Well, we hope you guys enjoyed the interview and you can find us at girlsgottaeat.com, show tickets, merchandise, all of our episodes, all the things. Girls Gotta Eat Podcast on Instagram. I'm Ash Hess. Raina is Raina Duck Greenberg. And VibesOnly.com for our other company. And subscribe to the YouTube, of course. And we'll see you next week. Have a good week, guys. Bye.