Ep. 751: The Alaskan Bush Pilot

Steven Rinella https://www.instagram.com/stevenrinella/?hl=en talks with Vance of Blackrock Aviation in Alaska. Topics discussed: The risks a pilot takes; getting a feeling; visibility and wind; reading the water; the fantasy that you automatically know how to fly a plane; rinsing the plane every day; and more. Connect with Steve https://www.themeateater.com/authors/steven-rinella and The MeatEater Podcast Network https://www.youtube.com/@MeatEaterPodcastNetwork Steve on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/stevenrinella and Twitter https://twitter.com/stevenrinella?lang=en MeatEater on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/meateater, Facebook https://www.facebook.com/StevenRinellaMeatEater/, Twitter https://twitter.com/MeatEaterTV?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor, and YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@MeatEaterPodcastNetwork See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 2:45Steven Rinella?

  Hey everybody, welcome to, uh, this, we're gonna call this an Alaska flop. This is a flop episode, meaning we record it, flop, it comes right out. And we're in Alaska, so it's an Alaska flop. And I'm here with my friend, and I like to think of him as my personal pilot. Vance, here's, uh, Robertus?

• 3:05Speaker 04

  Robertus.

• 3:06Steven Rinella?

  Robertus, okay. We always call you Robertus.

• 3:10Steven Rinella?

  I, I knew Vance is, Vance is a float plane pilot. This is his float plane right here. This is his personal plane.

• 3:19Steven Rinella?

  You'd call him like a, you're a bush pilot.

• 3:22Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 3:22Steven Rinella?

  Like Alaska bush pilot, flies on floats. I knew Vance prior, when he was flying down here in southeast Alaska for an aviation outfit. He left the aviation outfit, started his own aviation outfit called Black Rock Aviation. And he's a one man, one plane show.

• 3:41Speaker 04

  Right.

• 3:41Steven Rinella?

  Right. You've been flying for how many years?

• 3:44Speaker 04

  Float planes, 23 years.

• 3:46Steven Rinella?

  How, how long flying in general?

• 3:48Speaker 04

  About 30.

• 3:50Steven Rinella?

  Born in Nebraska?

• 3:51Speaker 04

  Colorado.

• 3:52Steven Rinella?

  Oh, Colorado.

• 3:53Speaker 04

  Yeah, lived in Nebraska for a while.

• 3:54Steven Rinella?

  Okay, yeah. Born in Colorado, lived in Nebraska, came to Alaska at what age?

• 4:00Speaker 04

  I was probably about 35, 36, somewhere in there.

• 4:04Steven Rinella?

  Had you always known you wanted to fly?

• 4:06Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, I just kinda grew up out in rural areas and like the, um, just watching crop dusters and stuff.

• 4:13Steven Rinella?

  Oh, that's how you got interested?

• 4:14Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 4:15Steven Rinella?

  So at what point, if you wanted to be a pilot and you want, and you want to, you know, and you love remote areas, and you like to hunt, you like to fish?

• 4:21Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 4:22Steven Rinella?

  At what point in your life, at what age, did you be like, man, if you're gonna do it, do it in Alaska?

• 4:30Steven Rinella?

  And what drew you to that part of it?

• 4:33Speaker 04

  I worked for uh, for uh, the airlines as an aircraft mechanic for several years before I finished all my ratings.

• 4:40Steven Rinella?

  The big airlines?

• 4:41Speaker 04

  Yeah, I worked for Continental Airlines way back when and.

• 4:43Steven Rinella?

  Wrenching on airplanes?

• 4:44Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, I worked for Boeing. Um, anyway, I saw those guys that, you know, dragging the black suitcases around and none of them were smiling.

• 4:54Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 4:55Speaker 04

  So, it's like living out of a suitcase and the ones I knew were all divorced or different, you know, going through divorce, so I can't.

• 5:01Steven Rinella?

  Drinking in hotel bars every night?

• 5:03Speaker 04

  Oh yeah, I'm like, yeah, I don't think I want to do that route, but I want to fly. And then uh, I had my private light, I had my, actually I had my commercial rating and then I went and uh, went and got a float plane add-on and I'm like, okay, that's it. That's what I want to do. I want to fly floats.

• 5:17Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 5:17Speaker 04

  I kind of knew I wanted to do that, but getting in the door somewhere to do it, it's the tough part.

• 5:23Steven Rinella?

  What do you mean?

• 5:24Speaker 04

  Getting, getting the hours before someone will even put you in the, in the seat.

• 5:28Steven Rinella?

  Oh, you mean like to hire you, you gotta have hours, commercial hours?

• 5:32Speaker 04

  You gotta have float time, you gotta have Alaska time, you gotta have.

• 5:35Steven Rinella?

  Got it.

• 5:36Speaker 04

  You know, all this, everyone has all these requirements, but.

• 5:39Steven Rinella?

  Got you. So it takes a while to get, you need to have the job to get the job?

• 5:43Speaker 04

  Right. You gotta start somewhere else, usually in Alaska, like flying wheels or something.

• 5:48Steven Rinella?

  I see, okay.

• 5:49Speaker 04

  I flew out of Bethel, Fairbanks for a year and then racked up a bunch of hours up there and then I got back down here as a, to fly floats.

• 5:58Steven Rinella?

  And this is like, this is like the world's capital float plane activity, southeast Alaska?

• 6:03Speaker 04

  I, I don't know if it is anymore. It used to be. Uh, Lakewood's pretty busy with float planes too, up in Anchorage and stuff.

• 6:10Steven Rinella?

  Okay, got it.

• 6:11Speaker 04

  Yeah, there's not as much industry as there used to be here as far as like commercial industry. There's the, there's the tourism, but there used to be um, a lot of logging camps and stuff and that kept um, float planes real busy, almost year round.

• 6:24Steven Rinella?

  Got it, got it. So is that, is that industry dried up? That's affected how many float plane operators are working and how many hours you can get?

• 6:33Speaker 04

  I would say so, yeah. Guys aren't flying as many hours as they used to.

• 6:38Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 6:38Speaker 04

  Unless you're hauling, unless you have the mail contracts or something like that.

• 6:41Steven Rinella?

  Yep. And a ton of guys, like a ton of guys in your occupation do flight seeing.

• 6:46Speaker 04

  Right.

• 6:46Steven Rinella?

  But you, you tend to do, you do some of that when you do, but you tend to work for outfitters. You fly guys like us.

• 6:54Speaker 04

  Right.

• 6:54Steven Rinella?

  Yeah. You don't do as many flight seeing tours as you do kinda like working, working operations.

• 7:00Speaker 04

  Right. I'll do, yeah, fishing lodges and, and, you know, people with cabins like you, remote, remote stuff.

• 7:06Steven Rinella?

  Yep.

• 7:06Speaker 04

  Um, hunters.

• 7:08Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 7:08Speaker 04

  Stuff like that. But, uh, yeah, everyone has to do tours too. Just fill in the gaps and make some extra, extra money for the year, you know, so.

• 7:17Steven Rinella?

  How do you, here's the thing that often comes up, and you, you guys get sick of asking about it. How do you like, how do you, in your mind, how do you quantify the risk of being a float plane pilot in Alaska? And just to, just real quick, like you guys are flying by, you, you're not instrument flying.

• 7:38Speaker 04

  No.

• 7:39Steven Rinella?

  You're flying by what you can see.

• 7:40Speaker 04

  Visual, yeah. Visual flight rules.

• 7:42Steven Rinella?

  Visual flight rules.

• 7:43Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 7:43Steven Rinella?

  So like how, cause it's the, anytime I'll talk to people and be like, oh yeah, we have a cabin and we go out to our cabin, we charter a plane. And, and people always comment on like, what is the risk? How, how do you picture, like, how do you deal with or imagine the risk of being a pilot? Like you have to know, I'm sure you do.

• 8:02Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 8:03Steven Rinella?

  You have to know in your career, a lot of pilots who've had wrecks, some, some survived, had wrecks and some died. Like, how do you begin to think about it?

• 8:12Speaker 04

  Um.

• 8:15Speaker 04

  If you're not thinking about it or about the risk, if you're not, if you don't have a little bit of a, you know, if something doesn't scare you anymore.

• 8:24Steven Rinella?

  Uh huh.

• 8:24Speaker 04

  I mean, even just a little bit, then. You're probably not, you know, if you're too numb to it, then you probably shouldn't be doing it, you know?

• 8:33Steven Rinella?

  Oh, you think so?

• 8:34Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah. I mean, there's, there's risk out here, you know? I mean, but...

• 8:39Steven Rinella?

  But do you, do you ever feel like as a pilot, do you ever, you don't feel afraid because you like, you're making like, you're always making your calculation, like you're the final say.

• 8:48Speaker 04

  But yeah.

• 8:48Steven Rinella?

  Like we go or we don't go, right?

• 8:50Speaker 04

  Right, right. Yeah, but there's still always that, you know, like, yeah, that gut feeling, it's like, yeah, nope, not gonna do that.

• 8:57Steven Rinella?

  Uh huh.

• 8:57Speaker 04

  You gotta, you gotta listen to that.

• 8:59Steven Rinella?

  Do you get, you get like a, do you get like a feeling?

• 9:01Speaker 04

  Oh yeah, you do. Yeah, yeah. You don't wanna be flying and, and, uh,

• 9:08Speaker 04

  and have that, but you get into situations where it's a little windy here, a little gusty there, and it's like, yep, I'm not landing there, you know? No good.

• 9:17Steven Rinella?

  What is it, what is the biggest enemy? Is it, is it visibility or wind?

• 9:22Speaker 04

  Um, it's usually a combination, yeah. It's usually like, it's usually just like wind shear, gusts, and visibility, yeah.

• 9:30Steven Rinella?

  Uh huh.

• 9:31Speaker 04

  Yeah, a lot of times it's a combination here in southeast. You get all of it at one time. You get low visibility with gusty winds and, and, uh, just, yeah, it's all, it's all, um, it could be a combination of it. It could be,

• 9:51Speaker 04

  I don't know.

• 9:53Speaker 04

  But the, the winds are,

• 9:56Speaker 04

  they could be pretty bad sometimes here, you know?

• 9:58Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 9:58Speaker 04

  Get up in the seventies and stuff, but yeah, you're not flying during that stuff.

• 10:01Steven Rinella?

  Seventy miles an hour?

• 10:02Speaker 04

  Oh yeah, in the winter time, but yeah, we don't fly in that.

• 10:07Steven Rinella?

  There's this idea, and I always tell people this, I don't even know if it's actually true. Is it like, when you're in an area that's all water and your on floats, isn't it some solace that you can always, there's always a place to land, or is it not that simple?

• 10:19Speaker 04

  Depends on the water.

• 10:22Speaker 04

  Yeah, the middle of straits when it's eight footers.

• 10:24Steven Rinella?

  What happens then?

• 10:26Speaker 04

  You might get it down, but...

• 10:28Steven Rinella?

  It ain't gonna be soft.

• 10:29Speaker 04

  It ain't gonna be soft, and it may not stay together on you.

• 10:31Steven Rinella?

  I see.

• 10:32Speaker 04

  It may bust apart on you.

• 10:33Steven Rinella?

  So what is the best, uh, how, how do you describe like, uh, what kind of seas can you land in, or what kind of seas does it become inadvisable?

• 10:43Speaker 04

  Well, I mean, you can land in two footers pretty easy in, in this plane, but, um, you start getting bigger than that, it starts, it's pretty rough landing.

• 10:52Steven Rinella?

  So like six foot is no good?

• 10:53Speaker 04

  No, yeah, no good, yeah.

• 10:56Steven Rinella?

  Because yeah, there's nothing smooth to hit.

• 10:58Speaker 04

  No, you're gonna, you're gonna hit one wave and go into the next one.

• 11:02Steven Rinella?

  Got it, got it, got it.

• 11:03Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 11:04Steven Rinella?

  The, uh, there's a thing I used to think it wasn't true about, it's gotta be true.

• 11:11Steven Rinella?

  Okay, we talked about rough weather, rough water. Let's talk about calm water.

• 11:14Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 11:15Steven Rinella?

  Is it true that you can have a, a body of water be so still that you need to create chop?

• 11:22Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 11:23Steven Rinella?

  So that when you start going, the float's got something to bounce on or else like the surface tension of the water holds the plane in?

• 11:30Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's almost like a suction. Yeah, it'll, it'll keep you down on the water. You gotta have some ripples sometimes, like small lake or something that's just flat calm. And you need the whole lake to get off.

• 11:43Steven Rinella?

  You'll cut circles.

• 11:44Speaker 04

  You'll do a circle or two, make some ripples and then when you hit those, boom, you'll pop off the water. Yeah.

• 11:49Steven Rinella?

  Cause it'll actually like skip you up a little bit.

• 11:51Speaker 04

  Yeah, it'll break that tension.

• 11:54Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 11:54Speaker 04

  You can lift one floater at a time too. It's called glassy water. Yeah, it's, it's a thing. Yeah.

• 12:02Steven Rinella?

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• 12:46Steven Rinella?

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• 13:30Speaker 03

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• 13:45Steven Rinella?

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• 15:07Steven Rinella?

  To explore Zamberland's handcrafted hiking, hunting, and work boots, visit zamberlandusa.com. When you're like, in your area, there's lakes you'll land on. But let's say you were in an area and you only had to like, you're in an area and you're in an area you've never been for just whatever reason, and you're determining, can I land in a lake or not? What are you looking for?

• 15:36Speaker 04

  Well, you're looking for the size for one. A lot of times I wanna, I'll look at maps and you know, try to get some measurements.

• 15:43Steven Rinella?

  Cause you need how, what, how many yards of water?

• 15:46Speaker 04

  Oh, probably 900. It's, it's nice to have 900 yards.

• 15:50Steven Rinella?

  Okay, so a lot.

• 15:51Speaker 04

  Yeah, I mean, especially for a lake you haven't been into, right? So, um, then you're also looking for, um, the approach and departure. If there's, is there, is there terrain, is there trees? Is it, can you come in flat over the, uh, the creek that it's draining out of it or whatever? Is there a, is it one way in, one way out?

• 16:11Steven Rinella?

  Yep.

• 16:12Speaker 04

  Can you do a step turn in there? Is it wide enough for that? Yeah, it's quite a few variables.

• 16:16Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, and then you gotta think like, you always have to come into the wind.

• 16:20Speaker 04

  Not always, if you can land downwind, but.

• 16:22Steven Rinella?

  Oh, you can land downwind?

• 16:23Speaker 04

  Um, it's gonna increase your, your, your ground run when you touch down.

• 16:28Steven Rinella?

  Can you take off with the wind?

• 16:30Speaker 04

  Oh, with the tailwind? Yeah.

• 16:32Steven Rinella?

  You can?

• 16:32Speaker 04

  Yeah. I mean, for, you know, experienced pilots, you can do it. Yeah, you don't wanna do that if you're just starting out on floats, but.

• 16:39Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 16:39Speaker 04

  Yeah, you always wanna take off into the wind is preferred.

• 16:42Steven Rinella?

  Well, sometimes when you come in here, you circle.

• 16:45Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 16:45Steven Rinella?

  What are you doing?

• 16:46Speaker 04

  Looking for debris.

• 16:47Steven Rinella?

  Oh, that's what you're, you're scouting for debris?

• 16:49Speaker 04

  Logs and.

• 16:50Steven Rinella?

  I always pick you up there calculating wind directions. You're just looking, is it clear?

• 16:54Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 16:54Steven Rinella?

  Got it, got it, got it.

• 16:56Speaker 04

  Yeah. That, that and also the wind, but I can usually tell the wind before I get here. I've been in here so much, but yeah. I can usually tell the wind from a distance after you've been flying for a while. But that's the biggest thing on floats is, um, reading the water and knowing where the wind's coming from.

• 17:13Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 17:13Speaker 04

  What it's doing, so.

• 17:15Steven Rinella?

  What's the, uh, uh, what's the worst thing clients can do when you charter a flight? Like, what's the most annoying thing passengers do?

• 17:23Speaker 04

  Um, put a camera right in my face.

• 17:25Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, but next to that. I know that's the worst. That's, that's, that's him, you know?

• 17:29Speaker 04

  Or touch the controls.

• 17:30Steven Rinella?

  Like, I understand your policy, once, once a guy, not an interview person, but once a camera guy.

• 17:36Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 17:36Steven Rinella?

  Points a camera at you, he's done, right? He's, he's, he's to a new air carrier?

• 17:40Speaker 04

  Well, no, it, it's not necessarily that. It's like, if, if they have, if they ask first and like, you know, I'm gonna, can I film you? That's fine, but, but when I start a takeoff roll and they stick a camera in my face.

• 17:51Steven Rinella?

  Oh, you don't like that?

• 17:51Speaker 04

  Yeah, when they.

• 17:52Steven Rinella?

  Have I done that? I haven't done that.

• 17:55Speaker 04

  It's gonna be like, you know, I need to see where I'm going. You're obstructing my view for one, you know?

• 17:59Steven Rinella?

  You know, one of the funniest things I've seen you do?

• 18:01Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 18:01Steven Rinella?

  Funny to me. We're taking off out of your, out of your shop.

• 18:05Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 18:05Steven Rinella?

  Your hangar. And we're like, coming out of your hangar and coming out into the, I mean, just for people listening. Where Vance's hangar is, when he comes out of there, there's like, commercial airline traffic.

• 18:19Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 18:19Steven Rinella?

  I mean, different, but I mean, it's like, it's a busy airspace.

• 18:21Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 18:22Steven Rinella?

  There's other float planes, there's the airport. My neighbor, I had my neighbor with me. And, and it was like, you were coming out and because you're flying, like, you just gotta see what's going on. I remember you reaching forward, reaching and grabbing my neighbor, he was leaning forward to look at something. I remember you doing this.

• 18:37Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 18:38Steven Rinella?

  Cause you needed to check for traffic.

• 18:39Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 18:42Steven Rinella?

  It was like needing a car, you know, you're like, I need to look out that way, see what's going on before I pull out.

• 18:47Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 18:48Steven Rinella?

  So that, and then what, what kind of, what's the dumbest question you ever gotten about, from when you're flying with somebody?

• 18:53Speaker 04

  Oh geez, I don't know. There's lots of them.

• 18:55Steven Rinella?

  Well, too many to name.

• 18:56Speaker 04

  Yeah, too many to name. Like, people that are off a ship still ask, what's that, what's that, what's the elevation, you know?

• 19:05Steven Rinella?

  At the ocean?

• 19:06Speaker 04

  Yeah, they get off a cruise ship and then they, you're on your float plane, on the same body of water, and they'll ask what the elevation is on this lake. Like, well, you're on the ocean still.

• 19:17Steven Rinella?

  You're at, you're at zero.

• 19:20Speaker 04

  I tell them like, four feet, cause they're about six feet, I was sitting off four feet.

• 19:24Steven Rinella?

  That's how high they are?

• 19:25Speaker 04

  Off the water, yeah.

• 19:26Steven Rinella?

  Here's, here's my, here's my last question for you, cause this is a fantasy I have. Well, first I'll start it up with a story. I was just in Africa with my family, and we were flying in small aircraft. We were flying in caravans.

• 19:37Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 19:38Steven Rinella?

  A lot of caravans here. So my boy, my older boy, uh, fifteen year old, he, sitting up front.

• 19:45Speaker 04

  Right.

• 19:46Steven Rinella?

  Okay, he fancies himself that, just by observing a pilot, he's got it.

• 19:51Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 19:52Steven Rinella?

  Okay. So we get on another plane, and my little boy, who's ten, gets invited to ride up front.

• 19:58Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 19:59Steven Rinella?

  And, and um, my older boy then, who's miffed, cause he likes to be up front.

• 20:03Speaker 04

  Right.

• 20:04Steven Rinella?

  He says, well, a lot of good is gonna do us having him up front. If something were to happen to the pilot.

• 20:11Speaker 04

  Is your older boy thinks he can fly it?

• 20:13Steven Rinella?

  Cause he's after observing, he's like, I'm cool. Like if this guy has a heart attack, I'm cool. What uh, like, what I sit there and always thinking like, let's say, I don't know, Vance uh, has a massive heart attack and, and, and dies. You know, what am I gonna do? Is it like, odd, like, people have this fantasy. I don't know if you know this, but people have this fantasy. We joke about it. Is anyone ever that's never flown? Gonna like, get the hang of it in time to figure it out?

• 20:43Speaker 04

  I don't know. It depends on the person, I think, you know? I mean, like, if they're uh, you know, if they've grown up operating things, like boats and cars and, you know, they're mechanically, you know? They might.

• 20:57Steven Rinella?

  Like, you might be up there and fiddle around enough to get where you could at least

• 21:00Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 21:01Steven Rinella?

  survive the landing.

• 21:02Speaker 04

  Yeah. Possibly, yeah.

• 21:04Steven Rinella?

  You hear that, Seth?

• 21:05Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 21:10Steven Rinella?

  Just hearing that, I asked him what he's always doing up here, and now I understand that.

• 21:14Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 21:14Steven Rinella?

  You got this little Vance has this little thing he likes to fiddle with right here. I didn't think it did anything, but it does. It has something.

• 21:22Speaker 04

  Trim wheel. It's a trim. Yeah.

• 21:24Steven Rinella?

  I just thought he likes doing it. Cause it never feels like anything happened.

• 21:27Speaker 04

  That's because I'm holding pressure on the yoke. And you know, you don't feel that. I feel it. And then I take the pressure off with this and I can release the pressure on my, on my arms. Yeah, so.

• 21:37Steven Rinella?

  So uh, what's an old pilot? When are you too old to fly?

• 21:44Speaker 04

  I don't know. Seventy, sixty?

• 21:47Steven Rinella?

  Sixty?

• 21:47Speaker 04

  I'm joking. No, I'm almost sixty already. No, I don't know. Uh, I think as long as you're, you feel healthy enough to do it, you know? Um, I think, you know, the airlines, I think the cutoff is sixty-five, I think.

• 21:59Steven Rinella?

  Okay. But you could do this later?

• 22:01Speaker 04

  Oh, I could do it. Yeah.

• 22:03Steven Rinella?

  You can be licensed to keep flying.

• 22:05Speaker 04

  Yeah, in my seventies, eighties, probably if I wanted to, but yeah, I don't think I want to go that long.

• 22:10Steven Rinella?

  So do you like, do you like the stress of being your own guy? Your own plane, your own guy, handling your own business? Do you prefer that stress over the stress of being in charge of a big operation with tons of planes and tons of pilots? Probably different stresses, but both stressful.

• 22:25Speaker 04

  I prefer this.

• 22:26Steven Rinella?

  Really? Is it more peaceful being a lone operator?

• 22:30Speaker 04

  Yeah, I mean, you're working hard, but it's like you're, you're doing it for yourself, though. You know what I mean? Just like any self-employed person, right? It's a little more satisfaction in, in your job, you know? Cause it's, you're not, you're not doing it for him or them, you're doing it for you.

• 22:46Steven Rinella?

  But man, you got, when it's a busy time of year, man, you got long days.

• 22:50Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 22:51Steven Rinella?

  For instance, I knew you had all, I knew all kinds of junk you do every night. I had no idea that every night you got to wash the plane.

• 22:58Steven Rinella?

  To get the salt water off.

• 22:59Speaker 04

  I have help, I do have.

• 23:00Steven Rinella?

  You do have help back, okay, yeah.

• 23:01Speaker 04

  Ariana's helping me this summer, she's great.

• 23:03Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 23:04Speaker 04

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 23:05Steven Rinella?

  It's a, it's a, it's a job, man, it's like.

• 23:07Speaker 04

  We don't, we don't soap scrub it every night, we at least rinse it off so you get the salt off of it, yeah. But yeah, it's.

• 23:13Steven Rinella?

  But more, I guess my point, rather than just, just simply washing, my point is it's not like when you're done, you like park and walk away.

• 23:20Speaker 04

  Right.

• 23:21Steven Rinella?

  There's a lot.

• 23:22Speaker 04

  Right.

• 23:22Steven Rinella?

  And then every blank hours, you gotta do this, and every blank hours, you gotta do that.

• 23:27Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's any, but it's, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's a short season, you know? It's pretty hectic, but, you know, in another two months, it'll be, you know, really slow.

• 23:39Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, you got time to take care of stuff.

• 23:41Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 23:41Steven Rinella?

  Yeah. So tell people, so you fly anything within how many miles of Catch Can? What's the farthest you roam?

• 23:47Speaker 04

  Um, longest charter I've done is probably up to Juneau.

• 23:51Steven Rinella?

  Okay.

• 23:52Speaker 04

  Yeah. Two and a half hours, you know, so.

• 23:56Steven Rinella?

  Now, I know people, um, I know people that are pilots.

• 24:02Steven Rinella?

  Who say that they like to fly with you because you're such an exceptional pilot.

• 24:06Speaker 04

  Oh, well, thanks. Whoever they are.

• 24:08Steven Rinella?

  Captain Mac.

• 24:09Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah.

• 24:11Steven Rinella?

  Captain Mac is a pilot.

• 24:12Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 24:12Steven Rinella?

  And he's like, that's my pilot. He likes you. So, Black Rock Aviation, that's a little bit of a glimpse into the life of a float plane pilot. A lot of people have dreams of coming out and being pilots.

• 24:25Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 24:26Steven Rinella?

  I, I, I, uh, I don't. I had it and I just realized it's probably better to charter a plane.

• 24:34Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 24:34Steven Rinella?

  You know, I used to think like, I'm gonna get my own plane. And now I'm like, no, you're not.

• 24:38Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 24:38Steven Rinella?

  You're gonna fly with me.

• 24:39Speaker 04

  It's a commitment.

• 24:40Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 24:40Speaker 04

  You're gonna do it, you know?

• 24:41Steven Rinella?

  Commitment.

• 24:42Speaker 04

  Yeah. If you're gonna do that.

• 24:44Steven Rinella?

  So, Black Rock Aviation out of Ketchikan, Alaska, um, Vance.

• 24:49Speaker 04

  Robertus.

• 24:50Steven Rinella?

  Robertus, I'll never remember that dude. Vance Robertus, uh, sole proprietor pilot, uh, private, owns his own plane, flies around.

• 24:59Speaker 04

  A mechanic too.

• 25:00Steven Rinella?

  Mechanic too, flies around beautiful Alaska, um, getting everybody to their fishing spots on time.

• 25:06Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's what we try to do.

• 25:08Steven Rinella?

  Thanks, thanks for doing the interview, man. I appreciate it.

• 25:10Speaker 04

  No problem.

• 25:11Steven Rinella?

  All right. Thank you, everybody.

• 25:30Steven Rinella?

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• 26:15Steven Rinella?

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• 26:57Steven Rinella?

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• 27:15Speaker 03

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• 27:30Speaker 00

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